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Transcript for 18-04-2015, 693 lines:

00:00:18 trinque: lol, extra points for the stripper name

00:08:23 BingoBoingo: !up Citizenfive

00:11:07 cazalla: scoopbot dead? http://qntra.net/2015/04/theymos-complies-with-yet-another-subpoena/

00:11:08 assbot: Page not found | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dt6wmh )

00:13:42 williamdunne: Out of all the derp that goes on, on bitcointalk, that seems to be completely sane

00:13:57 williamdunne: Operated by someone in the US, its self-preservation on his part to comply

00:14:14 williamdunne: If you send messages in cleartext on a forum run in the US, I'm not sure what more can be expected

00:14:34 williamdunne: (That is not to say that the action is just, just should have been predicted)

00:19:39 cazalla: williamdunne, no doubt he's in a difficult situation but with the last one, he wasn't even going to mention anything and had to be convinced to provide additional information to the public if memory serves

00:20:21 cazalla: BingoBoingo wrote on it, might have a better recollection of events than i

00:20:54 trinque: the idea that a forum is something which is hosted in one particular place instead of distributed among its members is absurd

00:21:09 trinque: fuck you, entire web

00:21:38 williamdunne: cazalla: If he didn't comply straight away, it would still end up with them threatening him personally. I would do exactly the same if I was in the US. Best not to mess with the guys with guns

00:21:48 williamdunne: Then again, I also wouldn't still be in the US

00:22:11 williamdunne: trinque: It suits well for most people, as do day-jobs mocking factory-floors

00:22:21 williamdunne: trinque: Has its place, even if not what we need

00:24:30 trinque: williamdunne: why for example does freenode need to be involved in this exchange I'm having with you now?

00:24:43 trinque: am I not able to get packets to you myself?

00:25:37 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Plenty of things law enforcement can use to leverage Theymos, most prominently the GLBSE shennanigans

00:30:14 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Indeed, that is my point

00:30:41 williamdunne: trinque: Convenience, everything on here is completely public anyway so no use in a subpoena.

00:31:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55100 @ 0.00031447 = 17.3273 BTC [+]

00:33:41 trinque: williamdunne: of course, I'm asking a more fundamental question about "why the hell still mostly centralized services using HTTP"

00:33:48 trinque: or in this case IRC

00:33:58 trinque: williamdunne: you've probably read over this http://fraudsters.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/

00:33:59 assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1yDn5gN )

00:34:02 trinque: I'm looking forward to it

00:37:11 williamdunne: trinque: Sounds good, although how would that work with dynamic IPs?

00:37:27 trinque: williamdunne: good thread in the comments

00:47:35 williamdunne: !up citizenfive

00:51:39 williamdunne: Read over the idea

00:51:56 williamdunne: Could many of the same goals not be achieved by just integrating GPG into IRC?

00:56:41 danielpbarron: irc isn't written by a member of the WoT

00:57:43 trinque: williamdunne: what's the thought there, that the messages within the IRC protocol would be GPG messages?

00:58:33 trinque: you could probably make something that was sort of like the proposal by cramming all the traffic, both gossip and direct messages through pm

00:58:58 trinque: probably better to design the thing from the ground up eh?

01:00:19 trinque: williamdunne: tangentially related it was rather trivial to make point-to-point chat with gpg, awk and netcat

01:00:25 williamdunne: danielpbarron: What reason would that matter in particular? All our messages are public anyway. I doubt your OS was written exclusively by a member of the WoT (even if you did compile it yourself)

01:00:47 trinque: williamdunne: I think the idea is eventually to have a full stack within the WoT

01:00:59 williamdunne: trinque: Maybe, if it works well then awesome. Will be a great thing. But seems like it could end up more hassle than it is worth

01:01:13 trinque: williamdunne: hassle to whom?

01:01:33 williamdunne: trinque: Each individual end-user, we'll exclude development efforts

01:02:15 trinque: it should be done at a certain point, not a katamari of features

01:02:49 trinque: if it passes messages between nodes as described, and does that perfectly, that's a fantastic place to stop, then build separate things which make use of that

01:04:18 williamdunne: trinque: maybe, I might just not be thinking creatively enough

01:04:50 Citizenfive: A properly-done "better IRC" would pretty much fix most objections I have with the current WoT, btw

01:05:03 Citizenfive: But use OTR

01:05:09 trinque: Citizenfive: read the spec?

01:05:34 danielpbarron: otr isn't in the WoT

01:06:03 Citizenfive: Just the RFC. The general spirit of it is sound.

01:06:09 williamdunne: Citizenfive: my familiarity with OTR is very slim, having only used it in conjunction with jabber. But what does it offer that GPG doesn't?

01:06:45 danielpbarron: it's more user friendlier

01:07:02 trinque: nah not the only thing there, as I understand it, it opts for deniability

01:07:09 trinque: as per earlier thread

01:07:37 danielpbarron: gossipd has similar feature

01:07:51 trinque: indeed

01:08:08 Citizenfive: https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/otr-wpes.pdf

01:08:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZOz5o )

01:08:26 trinque: Citizenfive: thanks, I will read this

01:09:20 danielpbarron: !s ephemeral key

01:09:21 assbot: 14 results for 'ephemeral key' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ephemeral+key

01:09:42 trinque: Citizenfive: I don't think off-the-record is what's wanted here

01:09:54 trinque: well not first

01:10:23 Citizenfive: PGP & OTR are not mutually exclusive

01:10:28 trinque: mhm

01:11:01 trinque: take the example in the logs above, asciilifeform is using an alternate nick while traveling, and it appears someone decided to spoof as him

01:11:05 williamdunne: Citizenfive: They would effectively need to be mutually exclusive if deniability is what you're going for in any group chat setting would they not

01:11:36 trinque: well there's a distinction between saying "I am connected to the node I think I am"

01:11:47 trinque: and saying "this message I'm looking at was certainly authored by X"

01:11:50 trinque: I want the former without question

01:11:59 trinque: the latter is a feature one could use or not

01:12:05 trinque: depends on the situation

01:13:13 Citizenfive: Both are very good tools. At present, I see many solutions trying to fit the square peg of PGP into the gaping goatse of "maintaining OPSEC in an adverse environment of well-heeled adversaries". That is, it fits, but a large round peg, perhaps OTR, would allow less... spillage.

01:13:43 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103663 https://i.imgur.com/tQqNT11.jpg <<< see quite a few of these here or similar style

01:13:43 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 23:53:29; BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/tQqNT11.jpg

01:13:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dt3TB4 )

01:13:59 trinque: Citizenfive: it appears one of the goals of the gossipd network is for the topology of the network to be the topology of the WoT

01:14:00 cazalla: oops, i meant this http://www.jennytalia.com/wp-content/uploads/Family-Car-Stickers7.jpg

01:14:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PZPin7 )

01:14:12 Citizenfive: The visual breaks down, but I'm amenable to a solution that uses both pegs in some way.

01:15:14 danielpbarron: must be in WoT -- until then, generate your own temporary keys for "off the record" communication

01:15:38 trinque: danielpbarron: there is a place for non-WoT authenticated communication

01:15:47 Citizenfive: fuck's sake, the WoT is fine, lol; it too is a tool

01:16:07 trinque: take the namesake of this nick ^

01:16:08 Citizenfive: like a damn broken record >.<

01:17:25 Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.

01:17:35 trinque: Citizenfive: define properly

01:17:48 trinque: !up Citizenfive

01:17:51 danielpbarron: the users who do know how to use it "properly" are the only users worth dealing with

01:18:03 trinque: yes yes, WoT is good, let her speak

01:18:20 Citizenfive: MP appears to know how, in his description of how to use it he explains what it is and isn't

01:18:48 trinque: Citizenfive: I'm asking for my own information, not as part of an implicit debate

01:20:04 Citizenfive: Without searching, if he tells me [user X] also uses it properly, I would probably trust that. All subject to the extent that I trust MP's intentions and motivations, which is sorta the point of a WoT

01:20:18 trinque: probably referring to http://fraudsters.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ which I've read

01:20:18 assbot: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18l11un )

01:20:22 trinque: was just asking your interpretation

01:20:29 trinque: anyhow yes, a tool

01:20:41 Citizenfive: fraudsters.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/

01:20:52 Citizenfive: I have no objection to ^

01:21:53 danielpbarron: what's the objection then? that not enough net effect yet?

01:23:08 trinque: danielpbarron: say, oh I don't know, I'm deep within the NSA... and I want to leak some documents

01:23:17 trinque: lol

01:24:02 trinque: why in hell would I communicate with you using something that requires I create a (for all reasonable measures) permanent identity

01:24:44 danielpbarron: the identity doesn't have to be tied to a slave name

01:25:10 trinque: true enough, and one might want to know later he's dealing with the same citizenfour as last time

01:25:13 Citizenfive: I guess that, and more critically, amoung its users, I see too much overreliance on it (which is to say, people who don't fully grip the CAPS&LIMS of it as a tool)

01:25:44 trinque: however in the process of doing said leaking, and especially in the process of *establishing* trust one may want deniable messaging

01:25:52 trinque: gossipd as I understand it readily supports that

01:25:54 trinque: *will support

01:26:06 trinque: you connect to some node that's the all-welcoming orifice and it forwards it on

01:26:23 trinque: and the chain of connections from that point onward is known

01:26:29 Citizenfive: But we'll get there. That's the difficulty with anything. The WoT automates some rep stuff, but doesn't automate KNOWING what really is and isn't automated, or something like that

01:26:55 Citizenfive: I'm not prepared to type enough to really explain my thinking at the moment

01:27:22 danielpbarron: the WoT isn't automated

01:28:04 *: trinque dives back into meatspace work

01:31:54 Citizenfive: It automates collecting and remembering-correctly certain things. These actions were previously done in one's own head, usually with less fidelity and in ways that required more effort or energy or whatever. Idk, I call it automation, but it doesn't really matter.

01:31:55 Citizenfive: https://xkcd.com/1322/

01:31:56 assbot: xkcd: Winter ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQmw6M )

01:33:11 Citizenfive: The above is Feynman's favorite XKCD, and whoever can tell me why becomes my favorite asseteer

01:34:18 trinque: Citizenfive: reminds me a bit of the vid where he discusses magnetism

01:36:39 trinque: nvm this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM-zWTU7X-k

01:36:40 assbot: Feynman: Knowing versus Understanding - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQnDDJ )

01:37:09 trinque: the magnetism one came to mind because he goes from a superficial understanding of the thing to a deeper and deeper description, ultimately saying "we have no idea"

01:37:36 trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8 << must've been the idiots guide to the concept

01:37:37 assbot: Richard Feynman Magnets - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQnRKY )

01:40:18 mircea_popescu: ahh

01:40:20 mircea_popescu: hello chan!

01:40:30 trinque: mircea_popescu: good evening

01:40:36 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Good morning

01:41:23 mircea_popescu: good gooding.

01:44:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103531 << heh that it is.

01:44:21 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 15:38:26; Chillum: hardware hacking is cool

01:44:52 mircea_popescu: "Slack brings all your communication together in one place. It's real-time messaging, archiving and search for modern teams."

01:44:56 mircea_popescu: hey, sounds like 3bn.

01:46:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103568 << the official word is that the behaviour couldnb't be reproduced (ben tried amongothers) and prolly alf did some strange locally.

01:46:07 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:09:10; BingoBoingo: No idea. Likely one or more impersonators.

01:46:08 Citizenfive: Trinique wins, with bonus points. I usually use the bit about knowing the name of a bird.

01:47:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103574 << you could do that thing where you peel your thing and just trace around her inner labia until you blow.

01:47:13 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:18:32; kakobrekla: thats not around.

01:49:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103608 << not bad.

01:49:44 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 22:45:24; pete_dushenski: heh, this murphy douglas fellow gets it.

01:49:47 mircea_popescu: !up Citizenfive

01:49:52 mircea_popescu: hey, you're the twitter chick ?

01:52:17 mircea_popescu: definitely reads like her

01:52:39 mircea_popescu: ;;rate Citizenfive 1 actual women actually in tech.

01:52:39 gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.

01:52:45 mircea_popescu: heh

01:52:46 mircea_popescu: !rate Citizenfive 1 actual women actually in tech.

01:52:46 assbot: Citizenfive is not registered in WoT.

01:52:55 mircea_popescu: !h

01:52:55 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

01:53:01 mircea_popescu: Citizenfive ^

01:53:32 Citizenfive: For politeness and the convenience of the asseteers, I will register if I stick around.

01:53:42 mircea_popescu: aite.

01:53:46 Citizenfive: Apologies for now.

01:54:00 williamdunne: Citizenfive: Mircea just offered you a rating, and a compliment to go with it.

01:54:14 mircea_popescu: tsk, let ppls go at their own pace.

01:54:22 williamdunne: Citizenfive: Any backstory to the 'twitter' association?

01:54:23 mircea_popescu: digital is too firehose-y as it is.

01:54:41 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I was just pointing out that its quite rare, they can go at their own pace;)

01:55:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103648 << actually, nothing specific. intel went "hey, here's one that's not stupid". doesn't happen that often.

01:55:33 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 23:32:14; Citizenfive: Yeah. Seemed to have a specific reason, too. I don't expect I'm a regular conversation topic.

01:55:43 Citizenfive: I will consider it the compliment that it is, in this "country", and am grateful for it.

01:55:58 mircea_popescu: i thought it was a cult

01:56:09 Citizenfive: williamdunne: Association?

01:56:18 williamdunne: I thought it was a sovereign?

01:56:31 mircea_popescu: who isn't these days.

01:56:45 mircea_popescu: heck, portland levies "art taxes" nao.

01:56:57 williamdunne: Citizenfive: "you're the twitter chick ?" - I'm assuming this was addressed at you

01:57:17 Citizenfive: The US is a cult. Most countries are. :)

01:58:01 mircea_popescu: in other news, these guys actually beat the puerto madero dock. incredible walkers.

01:58:11 mircea_popescu: we actually ran out of dock, five miles later.

01:58:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00031685 = 6.3687 BTC [+]

01:58:42 Citizenfive: Yes. → https://twitter.com/fnxTX is me. Or so I have claimed, earlier in the thread.

01:58:45 assbot: JJ 「ᶜᶦᵗᶦᶻᵉᶯᶠᶦᵛᵉ」 (@fnxTX) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1OQsTHp )

01:59:03 Citizenfive: (thread → channel)

02:00:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103677 << it's entirely a legalistic gimmick. somehow court manages to convince itself it's too good to just go read the forum, must order someone to copy it down for it. sorta like ottoman turks.

02:00:07 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 00:21:09; trinque: fuck you, entire web

02:01:18 williamdunne: Citizenfive: So how was it that you found #b-a?

02:01:34 mircea_popescu: cuz dpb invited her over i'd bet.

02:02:20 trinque: mircea_popescu: must order someone to copy it down for it << in 3 ring binders with those fancy tab-stickers

02:03:01 Citizenfive: williamdunne: I've known of it and lurked periodically over the years. This marks the second time MP has personally invited me, and it'd be rude to not see why, at the least.

02:03:44 Citizenfive: The question is why the second time; my guess is via this thread → https://twitter.com/AlekseiV/status/586780660553031680

02:03:45 assbot: this is awful http://t.co/R8WBYWGxof

02:04:34 Citizenfive: Which means MP, no longer on Twitter, still watches it (or someone noticed)

02:04:38 Citizenfive: Which is smart

02:04:54 mircea_popescu: Citizenfive oh is it ? which was the 1st ?

02:05:15 Citizenfive: Back when you were still on Twitter, several moons ago

02:05:42 mircea_popescu: fancy that.

02:06:08 williamdunne: Citizenfive: Welcome anyhow

02:07:24 Citizenfive: Grazie

02:16:27 Citizenfive: mircea_popescu: small world. Extremely so, though I guess bell curves and the size of the developed physical world explain most of it.

02:16:41 Citizenfive: six degrees is more like two

02:17:07 mircea_popescu: this is concerning, because it has two possible explanations. one being that my intel sucks, the other being that the us is running out of people.

02:17:15 mircea_popescu: i can specifically measure the former.

02:17:43 mircea_popescu: as oft said here, the situation is so soviet it bleeds.

02:18:21 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: People as if in people worth listening to, or people as if in humans?

02:19:33 mircea_popescu: well neither exactly. people as in people capable to listen to themselves.

02:22:42 mircea_popescu: !up Citizenfive

02:23:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20590 @ 0.00031554 = 6.497 BTC [-]

02:28:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58839 @ 0.0003169 = 18.6461 BTC [+] {2}

02:30:07 Citizenfive: I believe there are few good English-speaking minds; those countries do too thorough a job of taking children with potential and delivering batteries (as in, the Matrix sort) into adulthood. There are few Ender Wiggin minds left by the age of 18.

02:31:01 Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.

02:31:25 mircea_popescu: ;;google ender wiggin

02:31:26 gribble: Ender Wiggin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender_Wiggin; Andrew Wiggin - Orson Scott Card Wiki: http://ansible.wikia.com/wiki/Andrew_Wiggin; How Much Is Ender Wiggin Worth? - Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/07/31/how-much-is-ender-wiggin-worth/

02:31:39 mircea_popescu: dude just how influential WAs that book.

02:31:45 Citizenfive: Anyway I might as well register a key so you can quit voicing me manually.

02:32:35 Citizenfive: Not influential enough. But then everyone thinks Hunger Games is omg so relevant!

02:32:48 Citizenfive: Authors and sci-fi folks have been screaming this shit for years

02:33:42 williamdunne: Citizenfive: I'm probably one of the younger people here, and from my experience the biggest complaints are that any sort of discourse from rhetoric is largely discouraged, and you are given almost no freedom as to move outside the syllabus.

02:33:54 Citizenfive: Those who notice the re-runs and recycled plots eventually wind up here, and a few other places where such minds go

02:34:19 williamdunne: Citizenfive: IIRC the hunger-games author though more democracy was the answer

02:34:21 mircea_popescu: like ?

02:34:35 Citizenfive: Because the internet lets all minds who question these things find these places, QED (probably) there are fewer minds than we'd like

02:34:37 mircea_popescu: williamdunne well, obviously it is the answer, just, not to any question worth asking.

02:35:16 mircea_popescu: "Over drinks last night, one of the beautiful young ladies in attendance brought up the question of ?free will? with me. " << eh petey...

02:35:20 mircea_popescu: this guy is like forever young.

02:36:39 Citizenfive: DEMOCRACY isn't actually a thing. Not in a meaningful sense. Hence every country is a democracy. A well-architected democratic republic has some neat features, for example. But democracy is kinda like an adjective.

02:37:45 mircea_popescu: eh, democracy is a thing, even if derpy iliterate muricans never bother to learn what the words mean. it's not gonna change what it is just because a bunch of people have nfi.

02:37:49 Citizenfive: It is useful in describing something. Like the word modern. Modern car. Modern house. Modern, by itself, may or may not be useful. Modern art?

02:37:55 mircea_popescu: we could say that the meaning of democracy is fundamentally undemocratic.

02:38:14 williamdunne: Citizenfive: I completely agree; but I will assume they were going with the definition of diluting power to all, something along the lines of direct democracy

02:38:16 mircea_popescu: modern art is quite meaningful, yes. ever read the "what is art" thing ?

02:39:11 Citizenfive: williamdunne: See! DIRECT democracy. Also an actual thing, and a meaningful phrase. "Democracy" in REAL english just means "good" or something.

02:39:29 mircea_popescu: "real" english just means democratic english, which is not english.

02:39:34 Citizenfive: lol

02:39:39 mircea_popescu: english is THE KING'S english.

02:40:09 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in orc speak, everything means the same and is spelled "urgh"

02:40:33 Citizenfive: anyway I don't want to get lost into semantics; I think most here understand whatever system of governance the US has, it manages to masquerade as a democracy, and isn't a good system. Whatever that says about the word is less important to me.

02:41:24 mircea_popescu: well you're right in that it would try and to thew same degree succeed to masquerade as anything else, including a teosophy.

02:41:42 mircea_popescu: any play's equally successful if played out for the goats.

02:41:56 williamdunne: Citizenfive: Any system that provides people with the ability to voice and attempt to enact opinions they are not qualified to have is a bad idea in my books. The crowd has no wisdom, select actors with value behind them do.

02:43:00 mircea_popescu: which value you can only evaluate in a system that's actually open to idiots.

02:43:04 Citizenfive: Right. And so long as people accept that God wrote the Bible because the Bible says so, or a democracy is good because a "democracy" says so, will miss questioning what any of those things ARE.

02:43:18 mircea_popescu: what do you mean ARE.

02:43:48 Citizenfive: literally or as a joke ref to Bill Clinton re: "IS"

02:44:32 mircea_popescu: merely the fact that this question can be asked would seem to pull the rug from under yer feet eh.

02:44:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103704 << definitely.

02:44:57 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:00:47; trinque: williamdunne: I think the idea is eventually to have a full stack within the WoT

02:45:28 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: My particular complaint is that while we can evaluate who has more value in this particular system, the people with value's opinions have no more weight in process than those without. Hence a large number of welfare whores/elderly having a lot of influence

02:45:56 mircea_popescu: williamdunne anyway, to do some positive work : democracy is the notion that what people think matters. the exact opposite of alf's favourite, "the cold equations" (which'd describe a republic).

02:46:25 mircea_popescu: there's really no alternative : either one or the other. republics fail because not enough spartans, democracies are all one because idiots are all one. cccp was a democracy too.

02:46:30 mircea_popescu: (literally)

02:47:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59750 @ 0.00031554 = 18.8535 BTC [-]

02:47:15 Citizenfive: What I'm saying, if I'm saying *anything*, is that the words don't matter. And as a word, democracy seems to have too many contradictory definitions to be especially useful as a descriptor. If US = democracy, well, that's not good. If Switzerland = democracy, that's a bit better, though the consensus is that beast is a "DIRECT democracy".

02:48:08 williamdunne: Would lack of governance not be the alternative? (or self-governance if that wording floats your boat).

02:48:12 mircea_popescu: Citizenfive can you distinguish between the "words don't matter" position and (mutatis mutandins), the "BUT it is called the ?Worldwide Web? so there really is NO chance of any site being 100% secure" ?

02:48:52 mircea_popescu: williamdunne suppose you have a five year old kid on your knees and she asks what happens if there's nothing in a box. "well... there'd be air" "no, not even air"

02:49:00 mircea_popescu: "so then a vacuum" "no, not even vacuum"

02:49:04 trinque: Citizenfive | What I'm saying, if I'm saying *anything*, is that the words don't matter. << I used to think this; lately I consider it an autoimmune disorder caused by lifetime immersion in symbolic shit

02:49:19 mircea_popescu: nigga... say wut ?! what "lack of governance" wonder be this, of the box so empty it doesn't even contain a vacuum ?

02:49:28 Citizenfive: The trick is how to discuss democracy, then, when everyone has their own idea of what it means. Or any topic. I've found most arguments can be traced to the arguers somewhere having slightly different internal definitions for something.

02:49:35 mircea_popescu: trinque same.

02:50:02 mircea_popescu: Citizenfive the next trick to find is that you can get people quite bothered by carefully using their contributions to words.

02:50:09 mircea_popescu: also known as "the shit between their eyes"

02:50:15 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Well, depends how we want to define governance

02:50:23 mircea_popescu: is it up to us ?

02:50:31 mircea_popescu: yes, governance by us is best governance. agreed.

02:50:33 mircea_popescu: now convince her.

02:51:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103712 << why would you wish to be anonymous ? other than "because i've already lost the war".

02:51:37 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:05:03; Citizenfive: But use OTR

02:51:46 mircea_popescu: if you've already lost the war, why are you derping with axes and shit.

02:53:16 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I wonder what was said internally at the SEC about your offer to govern the world of BTC assets?

02:53:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103751 << by this token, one should not have sex.

02:53:22 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:17:25; Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.

02:53:29 mircea_popescu: !up Citizenfive

02:53:56 Citizenfive: Basically, all can be sorted out via Socratic roundtables — everyone looking to, fundamentally, prove themselves WRONG, rather than to prove themselves RIGHT. Eventually the people at the table find and exorcise their internal inconsistencies, and arrive together at Reality.

02:54:21 mircea_popescu: what are you, 19 ?

02:54:44 Citizenfive: Do you believe in an objective reality, or is it subjective?

02:54:47 mircea_popescu: this is a rehash of "socialism will come once people are generous", which was a rehash of "christ will come once people are good".

02:55:00 mircea_popescu: you can't seriously contemplate a system so easy t oattack. i will attack it.

02:55:19 mircea_popescu: just because i do not wish to be part of something this trivial to attack, nor do i see merit in its continued existence.

02:55:35 williamdunne: http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/

02:55:36 assbot: The Hard Fork Missile Crisis | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1ITZ5Jk )

02:55:47 mircea_popescu: what, again ?!

02:55:54 Citizenfive: That'd be interesting, as I don't believe either of those.

02:56:10 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Related to attacking systems

02:56:28 mircea_popescu: What do you say, Mircea? Are you a narcissist? "Narcissist" means egotistical, self-focused, and vain.

02:56:30 mircea_popescu: holy derp on a stick.

02:56:40 mircea_popescu: word means any of [word,word,word] ring.

02:57:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00031731 = 10.5982 BTC [+] {2}

02:57:28 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Well?! What do you say

02:57:38 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: This is trial by a jury of your peers in the WoT

02:58:04 mircea_popescu: basically, this is not different from shanonizer (seen commonly in spam)

02:58:15 mircea_popescu: dude i have no idea.

02:59:16 mircea_popescu: i was kinda rooting for simpleminded psychopath, myself.

02:59:35 Citizenfive: I seem to have improperly conveyed the degree of importance I place on this "word" stuff. It's not particularly important; don't worry about it.

03:00:10 mircea_popescu: Citizenfive i was just discussing a snipped from the thing he linked

03:01:48 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Narcissistic still fits most descriptions of psychopathy, so you may still achieve your dreams

03:02:26 mircea_popescu: eh in the sense of "i think i might have been raped" fits most modern descriptions of rape.

03:04:01 williamdunne: True, seems like a lack of care for many could be easily misinterpreted as narcissism

03:06:46 mircea_popescu: anyway, what is it ?

03:07:17 williamdunne: What is?

03:07:57 mircea_popescu: narcisism. didn't you have a question ?

03:08:32 mircea_popescu: anyway, more about this tomorro i guess, it's been a long day. tada.

03:08:36 Citizenfive: Narcissist != someone with DSM's definition of NPD

03:08:49 williamdunne: It was based off of the Qntra comment, although apparently the trial is based upon these characteristics: >> What do you say, Mircea? Are you a narcissist? "Narcissist" means egotistical, self-focused, and vain.

03:08:55 williamdunne: Night

03:20:55 williamdunne: !up Citizenfive

03:36:33 ben_vulpes: whoa a citizenfive

03:37:05 williamdunne: https://twitter.com/fnxTX

03:37:06 assbot: JJ 「ᶜᶦᵗᶦᶻᵉᶯᶠᶦᵛᵉ」 (@fnxTX) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1CYdmwn )

03:37:13 ben_vulpes: whoa a citizenfive

03:37:30 williamdunne: Also Citizenfive: Where are you CTO?

03:37:39 ben_vulpes: buenos tardes

03:39:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40061 @ 0.00031786 = 12.7338 BTC [+] {2}

03:39:48 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103585 << your opsec, your skin

03:39:48 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 20:27:29; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes but what if i wanna advertise my pgp version and its implied affiliations ? also, sorry for skipping your scoop mention in the cavirtex article, it just seemed a little tardy to have mentioned it.

03:41:20 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103567 << best guess is wifi hotspot across street and wacky irc client config. nevertheless...

03:41:20 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:08:40; trinque: BingoBoingo: anyone figure out whether ascii was fucking around or if that was an actual impersonator?

03:44:26 ben_vulpes: eyyy pete how's that wedding?

03:48:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55811 @ 0.0003198 = 17.8484 BTC [+] {2}

03:49:56 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103680 << mopping?

03:49:56 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 00:22:11; williamdunne: trinque: It suits well for most people, as do day-jobs mocking factory-floors

03:50:12 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: That would be the one

03:50:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21854 @ 0.00032125 = 7.0206 BTC [+]

03:51:27 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103722 << have we not covered this? if one desires 'forward secrecy', just...create an ephemeral key.

03:51:27 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:08:08; Citizenfive: https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/otr-wpes.pdf

03:51:30 ben_vulpes: !up Citizenfive

03:51:52 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103652 << oweeeee

03:51:52 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 23:37:04; Citizenfive: I'll reconsider joining your super-secret boy band. Maybe. Depends on MP.

03:56:31 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103821 << pff and who are you again?

03:56:31 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:54:00; williamdunne: Citizenfive: Mircea just offered you a rating, and a compliment to go with it.

03:57:26 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103841 << you had it the first time

03:57:26 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:59:03; Citizenfive: (thread → channel)

03:58:19 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103868 << you hear that ascii_lander??

03:58:19 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:31:01; Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.

03:58:55 williamdunne: pff and who are you again? << not clear who addressed at

03:59:49 Citizenfive: I like PFS by default, and OTR makes that happen in a fairly frictionless way. You are of course welcome to use whatever cryptosuites you feel work best for you.

04:00:37 williamdunne: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103969

04:00:37 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 03:37:30; williamdunne: Also Citizenfive: Where are you CTO?

04:00:43 Citizenfive: williamdunne: of a thing called FNXGRU. It's not clearnet.

04:01:13 Citizenfive: If we used titles that's what I'd be, anyway

04:02:08 williamdunne: Citizenfive: So what is it, if you don't mind my asking?

04:02:31 ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: i've barely scratched the surface of gpg, and otr has no lineage in my wot so i describe the tools i'd use were i to think PFS useful for me

04:02:45 ben_vulpes: but i'm bound for the gasenwagen anyways, why bovver i ask

04:03:28 Citizenfive: oh I don't care if it's _the_ "OTR" but that sort of key architecture is desirable

04:03:46 ben_vulpes: well hey po boy's OTR

04:04:00 Citizenfive: For those of us who will be avoiding the gasenwagen

04:04:10 ben_vulpes: or so she hopes

04:04:32 ben_vulpes: what's richlieu's phrase?

04:04:41 ben_vulpes: "any six words" or some such?

04:05:21 ben_vulpes: "give me six words of an innocent man, and i will find something in them with which to hang him"

04:05:35 ben_vulpes: you really think lizard hitler gives a whit about what you actually say?

04:07:04 Citizenfive: Spoken like a true NPC. Oh well.

04:07:12 ben_vulpes: !up ascii_lander

04:07:21 ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: oi!

04:07:25 ascii_lander: danke ben_vulpes

04:08:03 ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: consider me a rube, please, open to enlightenment. how does PFS protect you from false accusations?

04:08:12 ben_vulpes: if anything, this'd be ammo in arguments with ascii_lander

04:08:20 ben_vulpes: which i sorely lack at all times

04:09:31 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [01:55] heck, portland levies "art taxes" nao. << swear jar

04:09:34 ascii_lander: l0lwut

04:09:44 ascii_lander: pfs?

04:09:56 ben_vulpes: "perfect forward secrecy" i think

04:10:30 Citizenfive: ben_vulpes: It doesn't. It's for chaotic opsec. Compartmentalization.

04:10:42 *: ben_vulpes confirmed for not-researching retard

04:10:59 ben_vulpes: also i've been drinking with the cult so please forgive

04:11:32 mod6: :]

04:13:20 ben_vulpes: NPC << oh god my feels

04:13:47 ben_vulpes: "i need 5 grues swatted"

04:13:50 Citizenfive: iirc there's something useful on the concept in herehttps://grugq.github.io/presentations/COMSEC%20beyond%20encryption.pdf

04:13:56 Citizenfive: https://grugq.github.io/presentations/COMSEC%20beyond%20encryption.pdf

04:13:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DRWsVq )

04:16:39 ben_vulpes: "and that nobody's going to be able to tell him which is right at that level, but he keeps them in his head, hoping that they'll give him different ideas" << story of my NPC-dom in le cultissima

04:20:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66353 @ 0.00032458 = 21.5369 BTC [+] {2}

04:21:02 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [01:57] we actually ran out of dock, five miles later. << i whet their appetite for you

04:22:04 ben_vulpes: !up Citizenfive anyways, welcome. don't mind me, i'm just the court clown.

04:22:36 Citizenfive: then I expect you will greatly enjoy the illustrations in that slide deck

04:25:03 *: ben_vulpes retrieves the kilo of chocolates from the hilariously over-stuffed minifridge

04:25:34 ben_vulpes: poor davout

04:25:45 ben_vulpes: mod6 ascii_lander: d'you think he escaped?

04:27:11 mod6: lol, i hope so

04:27:15 ben_vulpes: <Citizenfive> ... whatever system of governance the US has ... isn't a good system << awh but i love it it's going to burn itself out so much more quickly than other more reasonable alternatives

04:28:13 ben_vulpes: (would have in similar circumstances)

04:28:46 ascii_lander: wawut

04:28:53 *: ascii_lander thick

04:29:20 ben_vulpes: ascii_lander: which thread?

04:30:17 ascii_lander: ...escaped

04:30:46 ben_vulpes: oh teh phri3nds

04:30:56 mod6: did anyone figure out how to turn the closet light off?

04:31:06 ben_vulpes: mod6: close the door

04:31:37 ben_vulpes: hotel redacto has the most delightful puzzles

04:31:57 ben_vulpes: myst, irl, with phriends

04:32:05 mod6: ok strange but true

04:32:07 mod6: thanks!

04:32:20 ascii_lander: closet light cuts when reed switch closes

04:32:24 ben_vulpes: mod6 is a filthy cheater

04:32:31 mod6: hahaha

04:33:05 mod6: im like waaay to tired to search hard. but i did actually search 3 times.

04:33:21 mod6: i nearly unscrewed the bulb.e

04:33:22 mod6: -e

04:33:25 ben_vulpes: i only figured it out in desperation

04:33:38 mod6: werd.

04:33:39 ben_vulpes: "i guess i'll try to sleep with light leaking out from underneath the OHHHHHHH"

04:33:48 mod6: hey, everything is dead over here.

04:34:02 ben_vulpes: oh hey i never gave you my charger

04:34:13 mod6: if you don't see/hear from me by 11am, plz come to my room and knock on my door, or call my room #?

04:34:28 ben_vulpes: before you crash do you want my converter?

04:34:30 mod6: yeah no worries. i'll get an adapter tomorrow

04:34:37 mod6: naw its cool bro

04:34:48 ben_vulpes: mk sleep tight sweetie

04:35:00 mod6: i'll probably wake up at 9, but cant be sure since i hvaen't slept in like... 36 hours

04:35:09 ben_vulpes: sleep ad libitum

04:35:09 mod6: haha ,ok ni ni

04:35:22 mod6: thanks gentlemen

04:35:22 ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> [02:56] mircea_popescu: This is trial by a jury of your peers in the WoT << o.O

04:35:24 *: mod6 is out

04:35:40 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: It was a joke re: a comment on Qntra

04:35:47 Citizenfive: williamdunne: It's not described shortly, really... a handful of generalists, and some unusually useful specialists.

04:36:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.0003263 = 17.4571 BTC [+] {3}

04:36:16 Citizenfive: making things and meddling with the rest

04:37:53 ben_vulpes: heh just as i was thinking "omg this log" i stumble across me own lines

04:38:09 williamdunne: !up ascii_lander

04:38:19 ascii_lander: danke williamdunne

04:39:57 ben_vulpes: So the moral, if anything, is “run slowly and learn to speak bear” << hyu

04:42:26 Citizenfive: lol

04:43:50 ben_vulpes: As I write this, the prosecution has showed that DPR’s private PGP key was on Ross Ulbricht’s laptop. How’s that strong proof of identity looking now? << funnily, it's more or less common knowledge that they shared the key around

04:44:11 ben_vulpes: i'm too much of a derp to really grok the implication of the statement, though, having failed all of my tradecraft classes.

04:48:01 ben_vulpes: "Open Source" as a measure of quality is bullshit. Many eyes don't see squat. It's orthogonal AT BEST to quality ( probably actually negatively correlated ) << tell a kid about it

04:49:08 ben_vulpes: althought that followed by:

04:49:10 ben_vulpes: Quality: Medium? In C :( Well scrutinised. Protocol well analyzed

04:49:14 ben_vulpes: is p. lulzy

04:49:26 ben_vulpes: (re gpg)

04:49:59 ben_vulpes: tor: Quality: C code. One implementation, but well funded dev and lots of scrutiny. Good. << such kek

04:52:14 ben_vulpes: pgp: * Signed message? More like “cryptographic proof that I wrote this incriminating statement” << myeah

04:52:22 ben_vulpes: !up Citizenfive

04:54:32 ben_vulpes: Windows is currently the most secure mainstream OS. I mean, we can’t stand _using_ it, but that doesn’t change the facts. The kernel is golden, the userland protections

04:54:33 ben_vulpes: are stellar << wuttttttttttttttttttttttttt

04:55:00 ascii_lander: wut

04:55:18 Citizenfive: Well those are among the most widely used and studied things in all of cryptoland. Vs. everything else, i.e. some arbitrary piece of FOSS something. Stuff like Tor is what gives everyone a false sense that everyone is all over everything in FOSSland

04:55:28 ascii_lander: 'everyone' ?

04:55:42 Citizenfive: everyone in FOSSland

04:56:13 Citizenfive: Bitcoin is small, but due to financial incentives is highly scrutinized. That's a good way to do it, but no one does

04:56:33 Citizenfive: I'd bet on Bitcoin's security (code-wise) over Tor or anything else, just because of that

04:57:02 Citizenfive: Hence, maybe — holyfuckwhatanidea — financially incentivize Tor scrutinization at the protocol level? O.O

04:57:39 Citizenfive: But not Tor, maybe. Perhaps something new. But Tor-like.

04:58:05 ben_vulpes: i don't get the windows line

04:58:17 ben_vulpes: joke must be way over my teeny leetle brane

04:58:37 Citizenfive: Well it's safer than OS X. How many mainstream OSes are there?

04:59:22 ben_vulpes: from ignorance: how so safer than macbsd?

05:00:15 Citizenfive: https://twitter.com/fnxTX/status/587669371775922176

05:00:17 assbot: Even more evidence that Apple was full of shit. "/osxreverser: "Fixing rootpipe in Mavericks to call Apple’s bluff" https://t.co/HK5EWLACap"

05:00:46 *: ascii_lander caught up on mega-log

05:01:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37700 @ 0.00032911 = 12.4074 BTC [+] {2}

05:02:03 ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: as oft said here, the situation is so soviet it bleeds. << ahahaha guess what.

05:03:05 Citizenfive: as for anything else, on the hardware... again, all depends on the threat model. Pretty sure there are microcode backdoors in everything, so

05:03:30 ben_vulpes: give up, surrender to obab, commit seppuku i suppose

05:04:18 Citizenfive: if the threat model includes USG, at the DPR-severity level (Senators declaring war on you — see Schumer etc a couple years ago), only compartmentation will save you (maybe)

05:04:21 ascii_lander: Citizenfive: this is where one discovers that the machine is not magic. and that resistance is possible.

05:05:00 ascii_lander: Citizenfive: in place of surrender - decide, to go to the bottom of the sea with honour

05:05:31 ben_vulpes: leave babe dirigible keys and train autopilot to recognize her voice

05:05:36 Citizenfive: For most of us here, that means either (1) resign to being an NPC, and stay off the radar that would allow use of *those* sorts of USG assets, or (2) compartment, compartment, compartment

05:06:13 ascii_lander: Citizenfive: there is also the option of learning basic principles of how apparatus is put together

05:06:18 ascii_lander: and implications thereof

05:06:37 ascii_lander: who build the computer you are sitting on? gods?

05:06:50 ascii_lander: can't speak for others, but no gods involved with this junker

05:08:18 Citizenfive: ascii_lander: You aren't rocking an Intel or AMD cpu in your machine?

05:08:19 ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: … asks what happens if there's nothing in a box. "well... there'd be air" "no, not even air"…. "so then a vacuum" "no, not even vacuum" << my brother tormented me with this 'what-if' when was a boy

05:08:40 ben_vulpes: !up ascii_lander

05:09:09 ascii_lander: 'box with A Piece of Nothing' (TM)

05:09:23 ascii_lander: Citizenfive: -which- machine

05:09:28 ascii_lander: disposable machine - sure

05:11:13 Citizenfive: Well anyway, if you believe you know all the details and have the threat vectors properly mitigated, then you're already compartmenting, so don't worry about any of this

05:11:31 ben_vulpes: "Dear God, please don't use Pond for anything real yet. I've hammered out nearly 20K lines of code that have never been reviewed. Unless you're looking to experiment you should go use something that actually works."

05:11:45 ben_vulpes: aha.

05:12:49 ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: ;;google ender wiggin << mega-b00k by o. s. card

05:13:56 ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: dude just how influential WAs that book. << to the point that it became among the only 'science fictional' yarns elevated to 'classic' and made mandatory in schools, etc, in usa

05:14:26 *: ascii_lander not aficionado, but read for cultural picture

05:15:17 ascii_lander: who is/was Citizenfive again … ?

05:15:32 ben_vulpes: no key, impossible to say

05:16:05 ascii_lander: what picture organism gave of self ?

05:16:18 ben_vulpes: 'cto', some form of shartup

05:16:37 ben_vulpes: heavy opsec focus, but you can derive that from logs

05:17:21 *: ascii_lander caught up with log, unclear on what is referred to here

05:17:37 ben_vulpes: i don't even know what opsec means either

05:17:59 ascii_lander: meatsec.

05:18:09 ben_vulpes: does not have dirigible, desires to preserve meat

05:20:04 Citizenfive: ben_vulpes: nope, no startup, confirmed for did not read logs

05:20:21 ben_vulpes: or perhaps is confident meat is undesireable

05:20:33 ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: 'Fareweel, ye dungeons dark and strong, / Fareweel, Fareweel tae thee. / MacPherson's time will nae be lang / On yonder gallows tree. / Sae rantin'ly, sae wantonly / Sae dauntin'ly gaed he / He played a sprig and danced a jig / Below the gallows tree.' (™) (R)

05:20:45 ascii_lander: ( http://ingeb.org/songs/fareweel.html << mega-cl4ss1c)

05:20:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CYpiOA )

05:21:18 ascii_lander: ^ there is a top-octane ru translation of this i was taught as a boy

05:22:51 ben_vulpes: !up Citizenfive

05:22:57 ben_vulpes: no need for such aggro, Citizenfive

05:23:04 ben_vulpes: 'shartup' is a term of art

05:23:58 Citizenfive: hang on, I'm gen'ing a keypair so I don't contribute to you fags' carpal tunnel every 30 minutes

05:25:10 ben_vulpes: 'tisn't the typing part of computers as what's damaging to me poor meatsack

05:25:27 ascii_lander: http://vk.com/video157026223_169528665 << performed by scotsman in ru, to tune of original

05:25:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CYpMEo )

05:25:39 ascii_lander: mega-mindphuck to anyone who knows either variant

05:27:11 ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: whence the logs contention? iirc you said nothing about your occupation in-chan...

05:28:25 Citizenfive: williamdunne was referencing twitter

05:30:59 ascii_lander: btw 'macpherson' was translated by marshak

05:31:07 ascii_lander: who also did modern ru readers' version of shakespeare

05:31:48 ascii_lander: it is pants-creamingly good transl.

05:33:17 ben_vulpes: stahp ascii_lander i cannot spare the time for learning russian

05:34:22 ben_vulpes: !s shartup

05:34:23 assbot: 22 results for 'shartup' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=shartup

05:34:36 Citizenfive: ha

05:34:49 ben_vulpes: has bezzle connotations

05:34:55 ascii_lander: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmqOE-3VQOI << audio ver.

05:34:56 assbot: Крошка Джон - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CYqHF4 )

05:35:06 ben_vulpes: does not necessarily imply vc thinger

05:37:35 ascii_lander: 'I've liv'd a life of sturt and strife; / I die by treacherie: / It burns my heart I must depart, / And not avenged be. / There's some come here tae see me hanged / And some to buy my fiddle. / But before I do part wi' her / I'll brak her thro' the middle./ He took the fiddle in both of his hands/ And he broke it o'er a stone./ Says,"There's nae ither hand shall play on thee/ When I am dead and gone."'

05:39:10 ben_vulpes: !up ascii_lander

05:40:47 ben_vulpes: odd data point: gore afficioonados claim orcs are shooting videos with phonecams horizontally oriented

05:41:22 ascii_lander: wut

05:41:39 ben_vulpes: beheadings etc

05:41:59 ascii_lander: so why not horiz.

05:42:30 ben_vulpes: ask orcs, not i

05:42:39 ben_vulpes: i imagine its to capture more of 'action'

05:43:01 ascii_lander: hedzoff.com

05:43:11 ascii_lander: ^ fyootoor

05:44:10 ben_vulpes: https://instagram.com/p/1jVqH1GI9s/ << this is much more my style than hedzoff stuff

05:44:11 assbot: noelani g.❤???????? on Instagram: “????Sharing is caring” ... ( http://bit.ly/1CYrAgP )

05:49:08 ascii_lander: small petz

05:49:54 ben_vulpes: ~70lbs = small?

05:50:43 ascii_lander: aha

05:51:00 ben_vulpes: if you say so

05:51:33 *: ascii_lander likes mega-pets

05:53:35 ben_vulpes: ping someone when your keys are ready, Citizenfive

06:29:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00031554 = 18.3644 BTC [-]

06:43:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53100 @ 0.00031606 = 16.7828 BTC [+]

06:44:58 BingoBoingo: !up Sickboy

07:05:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89952 @ 0.00031813 = 28.6164 BTC [+] {3}

07:34:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00032167 = 7.7201 BTC [+]

08:29:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71350 @ 0.00031544 = 22.5066 BTC [-] {2}

09:29:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00032154 = 7.4597 BTC [+] {2}

09:37:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103979 << hory shit, where is this still done by hand ? they got those machiens don't they.

09:37:21 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 03:49:56; assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 00:22:11; williamdunne: trinque: It suits well for most people, as do day-jobs mocking factory-floors

10:00:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103992 women believe in conspiracies less than men.

10:00:17 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 03:58:19; assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:31:01; Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.

10:02:50 mircea_popescu: btw, the "last time" on twitter meanwhile turned up. http://fraudsters.com/2011/de-ce-se-bate-femeia/#comment-99915

10:02:51 assbot: De ce se bate femeia ? on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q0EUeP )

10:04:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104000 << there's an otr module for most irc clients. im not entirely sure it does anything useful.

10:04:21 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:02:31; ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: i've barely scratched the surface of gpg, and otr has no lineage in my wot so i describe the tools i'd use were i to think PFS useful for me

10:06:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104046 << ahahaha conference top kek.

10:06:51 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:30:56; mod6: did anyone figure out how to turn the closet light off?

10:06:55 mircea_popescu: tried closing the door yo ?

10:11:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104100 << ok, top log kek, that entire thing. i'm generously skipping it cuz hey, chick's 19.

10:11:30 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:56:33; Citizenfive: I'd bet on Bitcoin's security (code-wise) over Tor or anything else, just because of that

10:16:16 mats: hue

10:19:08 mircea_popescu: well hopefully she reads teh logs.

10:23:46 mats: great stuff there. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103751

10:23:46 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:17:25; Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.

10:26:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104132 << no, i happened to read it (because blondy friend insisted it's the greatest thing ever) but i didn't think much of it myself.

10:26:49 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:12:49; ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: ;;google ender wiggin << mega-b00k by o. s. card

10:27:24 mircea_popescu: current theory being that this is the absolutely only interaction usians have with elitism, and so they love it for their own starvation, not for its (mostly absent) literary merits

10:27:44 mircea_popescu: much like romanians read supermarket catalogues above anything because OMG THEY HAVE ITEMS IN THEM!!1

10:29:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104138 << more like, "some form of tree fort where clever girl and some derpy dudes dream collectively of art and the world". you're from portland, you should know how this works

10:29:19 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:16:18; ben_vulpes: 'cto', some form of shartup

10:29:40 mircea_popescu: dun think a half-marketable chick exists west-side that doesn't have her little court all through hs.

10:31:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42693 @ 0.00032231 = 13.7604 BTC [+]

10:32:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31907 @ 0.00032421 = 10.3446 BTC [+]

10:36:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104146 "There's some who come to see me hanged, yet some to buy my fiddle - but 'fore I do the partin' wi' her, I'll tear her through the middle."

10:36:05 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:20:33; ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: 'Fareweel, ye dungeons dark and strong, / Fareweel, Fareweel tae thee. / MacPherson's time will nae be lang / On yonder gallows tree. / Sae rantin'ly, sae wantonly / Sae dauntin'ly gaed he / He played a sprig and danced a jig / Below the gallows tree.' (™) (R)

10:40:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104163 << russian learns you.

10:40:29 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:33:17; ben_vulpes: stahp ascii_lander i cannot spare the time for learning russian

10:40:56 mircea_popescu: (this is funny because russian sucks enough the speakers'd use "learns" for "teaches").

11:16:40 davout: ola asseteristas

11:17:13 davout: mod6: but, what was your first thought when not seeing a light switch in the closet?

11:19:44 mircea_popescu: "hey! john! did you hook up the bathroom light to the door ?"

11:19:47 mircea_popescu: "no sir"

11:19:54 mircea_popescu: "god damned it i pissed in the fridge again"

11:23:18 davout: "doctor, my wife takes herself for a fridge, it's very problematic!"

11:23:28 davout: "howso?"

11:23:58 davout: "the light keeps me awake when she sleeps with her mouth open"

11:24:33 mircea_popescu: wai, wut ?!

11:24:40 mircea_popescu: this camembert be too aged for me.

11:32:37 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market ButtChina

11:32:39 gribble: BTCChina BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 221.203542, Best ask: 221.243892, Bid-ask spread: 0.04035, Last trade: 221.243892, 24 hour volume: 158154.71850000, 24 hour low: 220.583766, 24 hour high: 224.720448, 24 hour vwap: 222.971805945

11:35:20 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market buttfinex

11:35:21 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 221.06, Best ask: 221.07, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 221.07, 24 hour volume: 18446.48956489, 24 hour low: 219.91, 24 hour high: 224.16, 24 hour vwap: None

11:35:58 mircea_popescu: ahaha so much win

11:38:28 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/9c944b63fd1bca17472cace9fe02db20/tumblr_nagezj0nJh1sydo5do1_1280.jpg

11:38:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXdrbm )

11:40:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28421 @ 0.0003174 = 9.0208 BTC [-]

11:41:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41279 @ 0.00031509 = 13.0066 BTC [-]

11:46:16 BingoBoingo: Is that what I'm missing on the day 2 tour?

11:47:45 mircea_popescu: lol naw. tho stan doth have a way with the gypsy girls.

12:03:52 mircea_popescu: wait wut ?!

12:03:57 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust yang

12:03:57 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask yang!yang@freenode/sponsor/fsf.member.yang. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user yang: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=yang | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=yang | Rated since: Sat Dec 11 07:28:54 2010

12:05:26 yang: I browsed to the website of bitcoin-assets, but there is no explanation what an asset is, can someone clarify it for me ?

12:05:44 yang: and what is assbot pasting like [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41279 @ 0.00031509 = 13.0066 BTC [-]

12:06:14 fluffypony: yang: it's a chat room, initially the purpose was to discuss Bitcoin-based assets (eg. stocks and securities)

12:06:20 fluffypony: it's evolved a bit from then

12:06:42 fluffypony: yang: http://blog.spagni.net/posts/what-i-enjoy-about-bitcoin-assets/

12:06:44 assbot: What I enjoy about #bitcoin-assets ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXhsg1 )

12:06:47 yang: ok

12:06:49 yang: thanks

12:07:19 yang: maybe a short intro/description wouldn't hurt on the website...

12:08:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59450 @ 0.00031799 = 18.9045 BTC [+]

12:08:25 mircea_popescu: yang an "asset" is something someone owns.

12:09:48 mircea_popescu: <yang> maybe a short intro/description wouldn't hurt on the website... < notrly open to the general public.

12:23:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25793 @ 0.00032421 = 8.3623 BTC [+]

12:24:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166907 @ 0.00032829 = 54.7939 BTC [+] {3}

12:28:38 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/0EX69RS check out that virulent shit.

12:28:39 assbot: dpaste: 0EX69RS ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXmp8p )

12:29:19 mircea_popescu: i guess if anyone's looking for malware hosting, ask whoever owns 43.255.190 *

12:29:34 BingoBoingo: persistent little buggers

12:31:37 BingoBoingo: Stuff working http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2015/04/17/stopped_for_efficacy_again.php

12:31:38 assbot: Stopped For Efficacy - Again. In the Pipeline: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuDxhQ )

12:34:28 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's the idea there, test works so well they just can't keep feeding the control group sugar pills, move everyone on drug ?

12:35:00 BingoBoingo: Well antibodies so s/sugarpill/saline but yeah

12:36:12 BingoBoingo: Basically a type of lung cancer... pretty well beaten and whay has computer science done this decade?

12:39:47 BingoBoingo: The general direction this particular kind of thing being this efficacious suggests... Oncology could get very interesting.

12:42:29 mircea_popescu: im curious what the eventual side-effect will be.

12:43:20 BingoBoingo: Probably various immune system nastiness and hypowalletemia

12:45:34 BingoBoingo: But it is hard to say when hacking so much bio-weird

12:50:20 mircea_popescu: mywah

12:51:31 yang: ok mircea_popescu

12:52:04 BingoBoingo: The way a drug like this get priced is $maxint

12:53:04 BingoBoingo: And since its injectable at first there's costs associated with the clinic, and any other drugs it gets cocktailed up with...

12:53:05 mircea_popescu: obama can care about that.

12:53:15 BingoBoingo: Sure.

12:54:16 BingoBoingo: This is the sort of drug that if it is effective could make Obolacare very expensive-er.

12:55:16 mircea_popescu: myeah. the obamakiller.

12:59:45 BingoBoingo: Of course how well it works over time still needs to be seen.

13:03:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92215 @ 0.00032148 = 29.6453 BTC [-]

13:50:54 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_lander

13:52:43 mircea_popescu: php 5.4 decides to combine E_ALL and E_STRICT. because why the fuck not. next thing you know, half terrabyte of logs expounding on FUCKTARDED php 5.4 "warnings"

13:54:47 mircea_popescu: and sincer we're on it, you don't want "E_ALL ^E_STRICT" as logic would seem to indicate, you want "E_ALL & ~E_STRICT"

14:17:40 ascii_lander: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104222 << l0l, quoted below. we can tell mircea_popescu is an LL-parser

14:17:40 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 10:36:05; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104146 "There's some who come to see me hanged, yet some to buy my fiddle - but 'fore I do the partin' wi' her, I'll tear her through the middle."

14:18:03 mircea_popescu: quoted from memory!

14:18:42 ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: i can quote the entire thing likewise, but minus the peculiar orthographic scottishisms

14:18:53 mircea_popescu: eh who care\s about that.

14:19:17 ascii_lander: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104215 << this is absolutely the complete theory. the thing was garbage, but the only extant illustration of the concept permitted in usaschwitz (possibly for that reason)

14:19:17 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 10:27:24; mircea_popescu: current theory being that this is the absolutely only interaction usians have with elitism, and so they love it for their own starvation, not for its (mostly absent) literary merits

14:19:40 ascii_lander: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104219 << sop. and what was the reason to think that this was confined to west coast

14:19:40 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 10:29:40; mircea_popescu: dun think a half-marketable chick exists west-side that doesn't have her little court all through hs.

14:20:03 mircea_popescu: west side of globe

14:20:13 mircea_popescu: alf is a recursive-recursive parser :D

14:29:51 davout: mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-iii/ <<< link to II in fact links to I

14:29:52 assbot: Page not found on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqsQzV )

14:30:24 mircea_popescu: ah t

14:30:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.0003292 = 21.9412 BTC [+]

14:31:26 davout: mircea_popescu: also this whole thing is written in rails

14:32:44 mircea_popescu: heh

14:35:10 davout: they're looking for a remote senior rails dev

14:36:36 mircea_popescu: from what i hear this thing exists in the terms that the derp "in charge" hired some indians off fiverr to make him a fb clone, paid fiddy bucks

14:36:49 mircea_popescu: and has been going around ever since prtetendinglike it's "a company" and "tech"

14:37:08 mircea_popescu: zero op ability, as shown for instance by the fact that... the list you see is freshly scrapped.

14:42:55 davout: so you just basically crawled URLs to enumerate users? they're using the default URL scheme, pretty retarded

14:43:37 davout: for (x in 0 to $maxint) { parse '/user/x' } <<< that how you did it?

14:44:42 davout: !up ascii_lander

14:44:57 ascii_lander: gracias sr davout

14:45:24 ascii_lander: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104267 << mno. pwned box, spoodging out spores

14:45:24 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 12:29:19; mircea_popescu: i guess if anyone's looking for malware hosting, ask whoever owns 43.255.190 *

14:46:26 ascii_lander: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104284 << aand mno. familiar with Laboratorios Syntex ?

14:46:26 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 12:54:16; BingoBoingo: This is the sort of drug that if it is effective could make Obolacare very expensive-er.

14:47:08 ascii_lander: BingoBoingo: if it works, for some value of works - i'll get nationalized; the firm will go bust, naturally; and it will be declared 'bad luck.'

14:47:17 davout: ascii_lander: come, we have wifi

14:47:20 ascii_lander: *it'll get

14:47:28 ascii_lander: davout: coming

14:47:33 *: ascii_lander goes to elevator

15:40:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00032099 = 13.289 BTC [-] {2}

16:23:50 Pierre_Rochard: !up bagels7

16:24:13 bagels7: !s quebec

16:24:14 assbot: 36 results for 'quebec' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=quebec

16:24:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49250 @ 0.00032938 = 16.222 BTC [+] {2}

16:42:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.00033069 = 20.4697 BTC [+] {3}

17:18:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43200 @ 0.00033168 = 14.3286 BTC [+]

18:01:08 danielpbarron: !up WolfGoethe

18:01:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00032861 = 5.8493 BTC [-]

19:03:08 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103882 << heh. just trying to balance the grey hairs!

19:03:08 assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:35:20; mircea_popescu: this guy is like forever young.

19:05:00 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes the wedding kicks off this eve... will report back tomorrow. how's the irl cult ?

19:05:00 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:19:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78200 @ 0.00032458 = 25.3822 BTC [-] {2}

19:42:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25863 @ 0.00033028 = 8.542 BTC [+]

20:40:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00033096 = 14.7608 BTC [+] {3}

20:55:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21346 @ 0.00032344 = 6.9042 BTC [-] {2}

20:56:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50085 @ 0.00032034 = 16.0442 BTC [-]

21:01:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66442 @ 0.00033231 = 22.0793 BTC [+] {2}

21:02:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68405 @ 0.00033346 = 22.8103 BTC [+] {2}

21:52:57 cazalla: http://dpaste.com/1GQD33J.txt lol gocoin was going to pump paycoin

21:52:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZSmqg )

21:53:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00033347 = 3.2013 BTC [+]

22:16:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.0003188 = 16.2429 BTC [-]

23:08:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33850 @ 0.0003188 = 10.7914 BTC [-]

23:13:43 cazalla: seems garza kept track of "trolls" lol https://docs.google.com/a/geniusesatwork.com/spreadsheets/d/1yZYwrhbeHRqhrA7O_8p1HaqX0ual33vOX5RiigmdDmE/edit?pli=1#gid=0

23:13:45 assbot: Reddit - Google Spreadsheets ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jh1GtQ )

23:15:55 cazalla: ;;later tell bingoboingo check this out http://dpaste.com/1N6B7HG.txt

23:15:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EePrju )

23:15:56 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:16:40 cazalla: juicy bit "By way of introduction, we are acting as legal advisors to Bitcoinist.net Ltd. and M?t? Tokay in relation to their negotiations with GAW Miners regarding the planned asset purchase."

23:37:52 cazalla: http://dpaste.com/2CN80P3.txt who knows if it ever went through though

23:37:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jh4k2A )

23:59:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44302 @ 0.00032181 = 14.2568 BTC [+]