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Transcript for 18-05-2015, 1546 lines:

00:00:01 pete_dushenski: completely nuts.

00:00:30 ben_vulpes: call dhl breh

00:01:11 chetty: http://blogged.com/ search for 4096

00:02:11 chetty: the replacement story is already up hehe

00:02:32 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes i've used fedex freight before, they'll come pick up the package from wherever and deliver it wherever.

00:02:48 pete_dushenski: but box it up for you ? i'd be surprised.

00:03:34 ben_vulpes: your privilege is dripping on the floor

00:05:59 pete_dushenski: wtf my privilege nothing. i'm getting on a plane tmrw morning and it's not so much to ask to have a seller of goods to crate a fucking table for transport.

00:06:32 ben_vulpes: heh

00:06:41 pete_dushenski: or w/e, mebbe my privilege knows no bounds. hey, i'm not the one losing business.

00:07:19 ben_vulpes: win some lose some

00:07:31 pete_dushenski: ya, tis just a table.

00:07:53 pete_dushenski: i didn't want one that bad when i woke up, just saw the right one at the right price and wanted it.

00:07:56 pete_dushenski: ah well.

00:12:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45707 @ 0.00027956 = 12.7778 BTC [-]

00:14:11 ben_vulpes: mwell i'm off for a spell

00:14:21 ben_vulpes: trying out a new fried chicken joint

00:20:48 decimation: pete_dushenski: surprising. I thought those kinds of tourist shops specialized in shipping

00:21:11 pete_dushenski: decimation seriously. you'd think so, but you'd think wrong.

00:21:34 pete_dushenski: i guess there's enough local demand in this retirement town that they don't have to try.

00:21:49 pete_dushenski: very nice, seemingly helpful staff, entirely inept.

00:22:43 pete_dushenski: http://www.barclays-exchange.com << these guys.

00:23:47 pete_dushenski: "We have been in business for nearly 26 years and hold a full pawnbroking license to buy, sell and loan." << no mention of shipping eh...

00:24:49 decimation: fun fact: there's a part of vancouver, bc that is us territory (point roberts)

00:26:03 decimation: also, victoria is well south of the canada-us border

00:27:59 danielpbarron: !up pete_dushenski

00:28:08 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron ty!

00:29:04 pete_dushenski: decimation that it is. though victoria feels like a million miles away from us-istan.

00:29:56 decimation: heh. I guess I can see why a pawn shop wouldn't bother with shipping

00:31:07 pete_dushenski: decimation why's that ?

00:31:35 decimation: I suppose they figure enough derps would come and go on foot

00:31:50 decimation: but I imagine that they could sell on the internet for $$

00:32:01 decimation: their website is unwhelming

00:32:57 pete_dushenski: these guys obviously fail at the internet.

00:33:26 pete_dushenski: so shooting themselves in the foot is par for the course, i guess.

00:33:58 decimation: pete_dushenski: are you planing on visiting any other outlying islands or the rest of bc from there?

00:34:51 pete_dushenski: not this time 'round.

00:35:10 pete_dushenski: i've seen most of bc previously, just hadn't been to vic in a while.

00:35:31 pete_dushenski: i went to summer camp nearby in my youth

00:36:38 pete_dushenski: http://campmiriam.org << this one.

00:37:38 pete_dushenski: sacha baron cohen went to another camp in the same organisation ;)

00:37:38 decimation: heh did they teach hebrew?

00:37:38 pete_dushenski: more socialism.

00:37:55 pete_dushenski: seriously, the shit in my veins !

00:38:24 pete_dushenski: "solidarity forever", "ticky tacky houses", etc.

00:38:40 decimation: I got screwed of out learn german from my german heritage too

00:39:07 pete_dushenski: ya, i didn't get german or romanian somehow.

00:39:26 pete_dushenski: this camp though had *daily* chores for like 2.5 hours.

00:39:35 pete_dushenski: camp, where you do chores, imagine.

00:39:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00028607 = 3.3041 BTC [+] {2}

00:39:54 pete_dushenski: some kids helped in teh kitchen, some cleaning garbage.

00:39:55 decimation: like, sweeping the forest?

00:40:11 decimation: sounds like a good way to save on staff costs

00:41:22 pete_dushenski: i wrote for the newspaper, wrote mad magazine-esque fake nooz

00:41:58 pete_dushenski: decimation no doubt. it wasn't *that* expensive, at least compared to the bbyo summer camps.

00:43:05 mats: ever cut grass with a pair of scissors?

00:43:22 pete_dushenski: mats haha omg no. why ? have you ?

00:44:01 mats: yeah. as punishment.

00:44:09 pete_dushenski: parents ?

00:44:28 mats: http://www.vfp62.com/IMAGES_9/mowing_grass.jpg

00:45:37 pete_dushenski: you call that grass ? i trim more manbush than that on a monthly basis.

00:45:43 mats: builds character (tm)

00:46:23 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135775 <<< heh we had this even here but i'd walk off with the group which cleaned dishes the night before, never washed as much as a plate

00:46:23 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 00:39:54; pete_dushenski: some kids helped in teh kitchen, some cleaning garbage.

00:48:50 mats: i spent the whole day (0900-1600) with some other trainees cutting grass at battalion hq because one of the nubs in my squad saved his granola bar from the mess hall and put it in his locker where it was discovered

00:48:52 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135780 <<< did this one countless times, not as punishment though, old man forced me to do it along the fenceline so he didn't have to whippersnip it

00:48:52 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 00:43:05; mats: ever cut grass with a pair of scissors?

00:49:11 mats: http://terminallance.com/2015/04/10/terminal-lance-374-no-party-like-a-working-party << basically this.

00:50:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27523 @ 0.00028624 = 7.8782 BTC [+]

00:50:51 mats: i drank something like 6-7 litres of water that day... missouri is hot as fuck during the summer

00:51:19 mats: cazalla: how much fence? several km?

00:51:41 cazalla: 1/4 acre block

00:52:16 cazalla: wasn't just me though, he had my mother out there doing the same thing

00:53:18 danielpbarron: !up referredbyloper

00:56:06 mats: ah

00:57:36 mats: in other news, the new Mad Max picture is quite good

00:58:04 pete_dushenski: that's a bit of a surprise.

00:58:08 mats: http://www.metacritic.com/movie/mad-max-fury-road << surprised metacritic treats it so well

00:59:08 mats: (they tend to shit on everything)

00:59:08 cazalla: aussie football ceremony lol http://gfycat.com/ThirdWeeklyChital

01:00:08 decimation: mats http://www.returnofkings.com/63036/why-you-should-not-go-see-mad-max-feminist-road

01:01:08 danielpbarron: !up pete_dushenski

01:01:08 mats: decimation: i'm just happy to find a fun action movie that passes the Bechdel test

01:02:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16821 @ 0.00028624 = 4.8148 BTC [+]

01:02:11 pete_dushenski: heh.

01:03:43 pete_dushenski: http://filmschoolrejects.com/features/10-famous-films-that-surprisingly-fail-the-bechdel-test.php?all=1

01:04:43 decimation: well, then sjw is where it's at

01:14:51 danielpbarron: !up justJanne

01:15:43 justJanne: Nah, I was just reading on the RSA factorization article where someone claimed this channel would still DDoS everyone who joins. Sadly I can’t see any of that (was hoping to see if it actually is true xD)

01:16:15 danielpbarron: it comes and goes

01:16:27 justJanne: I mean, I see some traffic, but it’s minimal.

01:17:44 BingoBoingo: justJanne: It isn't anything done by any of the channel regulars. It's just some butthurt dickbag with an excess of unwarranted self importance who imagines they are saving the world by DoSing every ip they spot here

01:18:19 justJanne: Reminds me of that guy spamming a gaming channel with links to their DDoSing company

01:18:19 danielpbarron: i heard that it just targets the user who most recently joined, and especially if it is a new hostmask

01:20:04 BingoBoingo: justJanne: Well the person doing it at first called themselves the reddit police and started by DoS'ing sites affiliated with regulars here. Then the sites beefed up and weren't so easy to DoS. So now they's had to settle for messing with home internet connections.

01:20:06 justJanne: I got some traffic on my system from 159.118.187.45 accessing my server via HTTPS and sending a few thousand GET requests, but nothing really devastating

01:20:37 williamdunne: lol what a tool

01:20:39 justJanne: (I have a bouncer on my server with 1Gbps connection, so I rarely notice DDoS at all)

01:21:03 mats: he's doing us a favor.

01:21:09 BingoBoingo: People examining the traffic spotted that most of the zombies were ntp reflection and stuff anyone could walk away with, and they likely did leaving less to hit here with.

01:21:19 mats: if you read this -- please stop by for another friendly conversation

01:21:55 justJanne: I have null-routed NTP and everything anyway

01:23:07 justJanne: So, they really DDoS random people?

01:23:14 justJanne: or, rather DoS

01:26:52 BingoBoingo: justJanne: Yeah, just anyone without a freenode cloak who joins when their spybot is online here to pull the trigger

01:27:15 justJanne: BingoBoingo: tell me when the bot is online, I’d like to analyze the traffic xD

01:27:16 adlai: is it an altcoin? is it a bubble? no, it's driveby moderation: http://hnrankings.info/9560790/

01:28:16 BingoBoingo: justJanne: I dunno what nick it uses. Never much cared to try identifying it.

01:28:16 adlai: (cf http://www.righto.com/2013/11/how-hacker-news-ranking-really-works.html )

01:29:16 justJanne: BingoBoingo: It should be easy to find.

01:30:09 danielpbarron: !s fivezerotwo

01:30:09 assbot: 204 results for 'fivezerotwo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fivezerotwo

01:30:51 danielpbarron: justJanne, ^ for you

01:33:36 danielpbarron: !s from:fuddos

01:33:36 assbot: 7 results for 'from:fuddos' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Afuddos

01:35:23 justJanne: Sometimes when I get DDoSd I run nmap against the attacking servers, one time I found a small IRC server with only one channel, in which were 256 clients all with just a number as name, and one other client sending specific commands every few minutes

01:35:26 justJanne: kinda interesting.

01:36:02 danielpbarron: justJanne, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-12-2014#948443

01:36:02 assbot: Logged on 08-12-2014 17:59:30; asciilifeform: incidentally, if anyone bothered to read the packet dump i posted a while ago, they should know that the ddos bot uses misconfigured consumer routers (upnp reflection)

01:38:13 danielpbarron: and this http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-01-2015#966322

01:38:13 assbot: Logged on 06-01-2015 01:32:50; asciilifeform: svetlana: i got a massive packet dump, and so has kakobrekla

01:38:18 trinque: http://hnrankings.info/9560839,9561606,9561693,9561599,9561920,9560426,9560904,9560790,9561920/

01:39:18 trinque: check out that precipitous drop

01:39:18 trinque: and the abrupt rise of the rebuttal

01:40:29 trinque: it'll be interesting to see how much longer that stays at #1

01:43:36 williamdunne: justJanne: Thats an IRC botnet

01:43:55 williamdunne: Pretty oldschool method

01:43:58 justJanne: assumed as much, but I have no experience with them yet, and was surprised seeing one in the wild

01:43:59 *: adlai wonders whether any of the strongset edges point to the diddle

01:44:36 williamdunne: Guessing for some reason they thought it would be a swell idea to use the IRC server for additional DDoS power?

01:46:44 williamdunne: !up justjanne

01:46:56 justJanne: but yeah, I was kinda surprised, would have assumed they’d put the control for the botnet on a different system

01:47:11 justJanne: at least so that one doesn’t discover their botnet that easily

01:48:34 oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/ragtrade/

01:49:42 justJanne: anyway, let’s wait for that DDoS-bot ;P

01:53:28 danielpbarron: justJanne, while you're waiting, read this: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets

02:00:06 justJanne: danielpbarron: looking into it, but just found out my last GPG key’s validity ends this month

02:05:20 decimation: justJanne: no problem, make a new subkey or extend the date

02:05:44 decimation: justJanne: Someone compiled a list of ips that originate dos'er

02:05:54 justJanne: Meh, too lazy to copy it from my other PC, I’ll just make a new one and sign it with my old key later

02:11:55 decimation: you can see the logs at log.bitcoin-assets.com

02:16:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31396 @ 0.00028687 = 9.0066 BTC [+] {4}

02:29:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49100 @ 0.00028281 = 13.886 BTC [-] {2}

02:29:18 mircea_popescu: lol janne 18yo female ? srsly ?

02:31:25 mircea_popescu: !up justJanne

02:31:33 justJanne: Yes, why?

02:31:46 mircea_popescu: these guys keep saying it's forbidden on irc.

02:32:07 justJanne: oh, btw, need to update that.

02:32:22 williamdunne: Hmm wonder whos younger out of me and Janne

02:32:34 justJanne: sorry, forgot to update it -.-

02:32:35 justJanne: am 19

02:32:47 mircea_popescu: that totally kills the whole thing. i bet you're not even from cali.

02:32:57 justJanne: nah, northern Germany

02:33:26 mircea_popescu: scam.

02:33:30 justJanne: just another compsci student

02:33:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, get in the wot, then you can voice.

02:34:10 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/full-disclosure-4096-rsa-key-in-the-strongset-factored/#comment-114229 << lol check it out, ~they~ are going to ~lend me~ credence. i've been visited by backwards world wtf is with today.

02:35:10 justJanne: I am registered with assbot, but no one levelled me up yet ;P

02:35:10 cazalla: 14/f/cali oldest fbi trick in the book

02:35:10 williamdunne: You need a lord to do that

02:35:10 mircea_popescu: !rate justJanne 1 55 yo Pittsburgh steel mill worker posing as 19 yo girl on the interwebs.

02:35:10 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3ce24e592e5d8bcf

02:35:10 justJanne: Nooo

02:35:28 justJanne: If you want, you can mail me on my student mail, I’m real stu120691@informatik.uni-kiel.de >_>

02:35:30 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.justJanne.1:44086df839c6a505edd1681e3dff4c96ffd5990b1c9abddd93c99f55a195008c

02:35:30 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for justJanne with note: 55 yo Pittsburgh steel mill worker posing as 19 yo girl on the interwebs.

02:35:50 mircea_popescu: justJanne well on the plus side now you can voice.

02:36:48 williamdunne: justJanne: I'm pretty sure a 55 yo Pittsburgh steel mill worker would have the connections to get one of those there fancy emails

02:37:01 decimation: koennen Sie ein bisschen Deutsch schreiben?

02:37:05 justJanne: ja, wieso?

02:38:06 adlai: !t m s.mpoe

02:38:06 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00026733 / 0.00027828 / 0.00028748 (2307220 shares, 642.06 BTC), 7D: 0.00023904 / 0.00026467 / 0.00029014 (38353417 shares, 10,151.15 BTC), 30D: 0.00019511 / 0.00026548 / 0.00033918 (109094749 shares, 28,962.95 BTC)

02:38:07 decimation: bitte schreiben Sie eine Kurzbiographie?

02:38:42 adlai: is the middle number vwap?

02:38:46 williamdunne: ich habe eine gross hose schlange is about all I remember from three years of German lessons

02:39:26 williamdunne: And ich bin zwolf jahre alt

02:39:32 williamdunne: But I couldn't update that to my current age

02:40:03 justJanne: Die wird aber ganz kurz ausfallen müssen ;P Ist auch nicht viel zu sagen – Geboren in then 90ern, ganz normal Grundschule, bin mit 8 ins Hochbegabtenförderungsprogramm gekommen, hab neben der Schule interessantes Zeug gelernt, dann Gymnasium, hab mit 16 neben der Schule angefangen zu studieren, und hab mit 18 Abitur mit 2,2 gemacht. Bin seit letztem Herbst Vollstudentin ;)

02:40:42 decimation: ^ sufficiently idomatic to pass the google translate test

02:40:59 justJanne: you could have just looked at my hostname ;P

02:41:30 decimation: justJanne: given your interest in this gpg episode, there is something that you could assist with

02:41:46 decimation: can you identify the supposed "german email program" that was supposedly the source of these weak keys?

02:42:32 mircea_popescu: decimation wait, we're progressed past the "it occured while copying" to obscure email programs naoi ?

02:42:57 mircea_popescu: jeez how the world changes in a coupla hours based on what's said in b-a log, you'd think we're talking to gavin-the-handpuppet & co.

02:42:58 decimation: heh yeah lemme find a link

02:43:15 justJanne: Yeah, I probably can.

02:43:18 mircea_popescu: not that we aren't, just, lulz factor.

02:44:11 decimation: it's in the comments of that article that replaced yours on hacker news https://blog.hboeck.de/archives/872-About-the-supposed-factoring-of-a-4096-bit-RSA-key.html

02:45:11 decimation: "I don't really know, but I talked to Nadia Heninger about it and she mentioned that they were probably created by some email software only used in Germany. "

02:45:11 decimation: Note that your headline was dinged for being inaccurate, while this guy's blog is more inaccurate by his own admission

02:45:11 justJanne: That's very helpful. NOT ;P

02:45:11 mircea_popescu: herpitty derp.

02:45:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, to quote myself, "I will write up an article addressing this particular set of bullshit tomorrow. I promise it will be good. Engage bated breath."

02:46:13 justJanne: Hmm.

02:47:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135600 << heh the blessed 90%. "nothing may ever get done!!1"

02:47:46 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 22:51:31; DreadKnight: the project gets small contributions constantly, but when it comes to bigger stuff, people tend to vanish at about 90% progress xD

02:49:22 decimation: https://mvideos.stanford.edu/graduate#/SeminarDetail/Spring/2015/EE/380/9469 < this Nadia Heniger chick claims that rsa keys can be poorly generated by bad rngs (around 50:00 or so)

02:50:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135604 << confirmed romanian. "te-neci ca tiganu' la mal." implying normal people drown in blue water, but gypsies can't even do this right, they drown after almost getting to shore.

02:50:22 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 22:57:59; DreadKnight: we have a saying around, going something like "you drawn like the gypsy near the shore", meaning overall that you failed in the last few steps

02:50:22 justJanne: decimation: that's true. RSA keygens use a probabilistic prime test.

02:50:29 justJanne: With a very bad RNG, it would tell you 2 is prime.

02:50:43 justJanne: Sorry.

02:50:47 justJanne: Meant 20

02:50:55 decimation: lol she claims that (52:41) that openssl just adds the current time of day in seconds to the entropy pool

02:51:02 justJanne: It does.

02:51:04 mircea_popescu: this is (or at least was) true

02:51:10 adlai: mircea_popescu: fyi/raffs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9562548

02:52:10 justJanne: Read the report on OpenSEL by the OpenBSD guys. It's a whole new level of WTF

02:52:10 mircea_popescu: "[1] He's been scraping the profiles of young women (specifically) and posting links, names, and hometowns on his blog. Yes, as technologists, we know that this kind of indexing is trivial. That's no reason, as a decent human being, to terrorize innocent people."

02:52:10 mircea_popescu: herp.

02:52:10 mircea_popescu: who the fuck asked anon what is and isn't reason nao ?

02:52:13 mircea_popescu: backwards world srsly.

02:52:24 mircea_popescu: justJanne it was in chan.

02:52:56 *: adlai considered writing some words about how security theater damages actual security, but stuck to lazy bean counting

02:53:26 justJanne: Actual security is sadly a thing that doesn't exist in critical places.

02:53:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135608 << everywhere someone hopes to get something for nothing and figures govt's the answer to that quandry there's an enemy of b-a. amusingly, this boils down to really very few people and traceably so.

02:53:44 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 23:00:52; decimation: there are clearly people on hacker news who are enemies of #b-a

02:53:56 adlai: (a reporter writing about 'accidentally' carrying a multiple-inch blade onto an airplane damages airplane security far, far less than the security practices that let it through)

02:54:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135619 << it's unclear to me how you figure gmail makes money.

02:54:21 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 23:04:20; DreadKnight: gmail is free and makes money, same goes for games like league of legends, soon even world of warcraft

02:54:51 justJanne: Gmail isn't free.

02:54:54 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: scraping your emails to better sell your advertisements

02:55:03 adlai: gmail sells adspace to its parent company. the number of people who know its actual revenue is probably quite low.

02:55:08 williamdunne: Increasing the number of people who know the platform so that enterprise customers will purchase it

02:55:11 justJanne: Gmail has two options: sell your data or pay.

02:55:21 justJanne: Yeah.

02:55:22 williamdunne: I think with pay they still have your data

02:55:27 justJanne: Nope.

02:55:32 decimation: gotta pay if you want 'google apps' too

02:55:43 justJanne: As a large company you can get Google Apps as a box.

02:55:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135624 << that never happens, but sure.

02:55:44 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 23:07:10; trinque: DreadKnight: doing the ad-supported thing is a loss leader at best; you have to be able to burn money until your audience is large enough to merit being paid for the # of eyeballs

02:56:01 justJanne: A local server you can put in your own data center. It can operate even separate from the web.

02:56:06 decimation: justJanne: did you see any ntp reflection traffic?

02:56:08 midnightmagic: adlai: http://carnal0wnage.attackresearch.com/2015/05/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html

02:57:08 justJanne: decimation: I'm on phone right now, but as the latency didn't go up, doesn't seem so. Or at least nothing noticeable.

02:57:30 *: adlai notices that assbot doesn't insert titles anymore... midnightmagic linked "Lets Call Stunt Hacking What it is, Media Whoring", an apt topic for today

02:58:06 mircea_popescu: midnightmagic not bad, but it lost me at the "well credentialed" etc bs.

02:58:18 mircea_popescu: adlai i suspec assbot is a little tired.

02:58:26 *: adlai taps it, gently

02:58:27 justJanne: Tbh, security of embedded systems could be better.

02:58:56 justJanne: In general embedded systems could be better.

02:59:05 mircea_popescu: decimation honestly, i suspect the guy complaining on fraudsters was either trying to stir up shit or else working on meanwhile inacurate history. seems the ddos guy is gone.

02:59:06 adlai: was this some fix-in-anger to the http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1115842 conundrum?

02:59:06 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 14:33:49; davout: mircea_popescu kakobrekla mebbe make scoopbot_revived not mention the title and let assbot handle it?

02:59:07 *: justJanne thinks back to the Toyota issue

02:59:44 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah, in fact I suspect "the lady doth protest too much"

02:59:46 mircea_popescu: adlai iirc that measure didn't pass.

03:00:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135631 << lol win.

03:00:09 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 23:11:27; williamdunne: >Forget MPEX. The best/most reliable stock exchange is, by far, BTCT.CO.

03:00:16 midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: The old Aurora attacks are an excellent example of the perversion of the idea of 'well-credentialed'. The people they had making comments about the SCM systems involved in that attack and the shoddy investigations going on were.. extreme.

03:01:15 mircea_popescu: yeah. if i don't happen to know someone willing to vouch, you can have credentials coming out of your ears, i just see "idiot" in thick font. which is basically wot-ness.

03:01:25 midnightmagic: I personally watched the responses internal to some of the companies involved and observed the evolution of the document they presented to the public. The people on whose opinions some of those documents were based were bullshit artists, borderline pathological, of the worst order.

03:02:04 midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Everything it seems, comes down to human trust evaluation.

03:02:18 midnightmagic: most of the time.

03:02:19 justJanne: Embedded systems are still often built by programmers, not by engineers.

03:02:21 mircea_popescu: worst part being that it's usually "corporate [in]culture" that takes marginal yet ambitious intellects and molds them to this shit.

03:02:24 decimation: !up btcg

03:02:24 mircea_popescu: !up btcg

03:02:50 btcg: thanks

03:03:03 decimation: btcg: what brings you here?

03:03:04 mircea_popescu: aha. who're you ?

03:03:24 btcg: to talk about interesting topics :)

03:03:42 btcg: do i need to auth with assbot for voice perm?

03:04:08 mircea_popescu: and get rated, yes.

03:04:22 decimation: btcg http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets

03:05:22 decimation: was assbot's link title functionality kaput?

03:05:22 btcg: i didn't see anything

03:05:22 williamdunne: wut?

03:05:37 mircea_popescu: three minute half hour ?

03:05:40 mircea_popescu: !up btcg

03:05:47 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla hey, is something the matter with assbot ?

03:06:08 BingoBoingo: prolly just needs to fart

03:07:29 williamdunne: btcg did you dieded?

03:09:06 btcg: no i am here

03:09:58 williamdunne: To get perma voice you need to be in assbots L2 - so you need a rating from a lord

03:10:23 williamdunne: So someone on the send section here: http://w.b-a.link/user/assbot

03:11:23 midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Mediocrity is a natural result of psychopathic and sociopathic inroads. The moment upper management ceases to directly observe their employees, the result is the most convincing-sounding people's voices become the most relied-on. Convincing-sounding is not the same as accurate/informed.

03:14:34 decimation: midnightmagic: convincing-sounding is pretty much the going standard in the english speaking world

03:15:04 midnightmagic: -- which directly resulted in the erroneous and I would say, outright lying in the Aurora analyses. None of the conjecture that the public could see (because that's what the fuck it was) needed to ever be tested or 'pay rent' in terms of accuracy.

03:16:22 btcg: !register F4DE 6DF4 EB8B A2DA AD8D 14A5 B004 5BC9 02AC 1559

03:16:22 assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.

03:16:40 williamdunne: no spaces

03:16:55 btcg: !register F4DE6DF4EB8BA2DAAD8D14A5B0045BC902AC1559

03:16:55 assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: F4DE6DF4EB8BA2DAAD8D14A5B0045BC902AC1559. This may take a few moments.

03:16:55 assbot: Key 02AC1559 / "boxsk <boxsk@tutanota.io>" successfully imported.

03:16:55 assbot: Registration successful.

03:18:03 btcg: now i need a vote?

03:19:06 decimation: is tutanota.io even valid?

03:19:29 btcg: oh should be .com

03:19:56 btcg: sorry, can i reset my key

03:20:49 danielpbarron: >> My aim is to fight mass surveillance. I write code to fight for our human right to privacy. I want to create a cloud service which is so easy to use and so secure that it locks out all the spies. We really deserve it. << lol

03:21:38 decimation: btcg: sure, just make a new one

03:23:14 danielpbarron: !up joshbuddy

03:23:18 justJanne: danielpbarron: that sounds like Kim Schmitz

03:23:38 justJanne: Sorry, he's known outside of DE as Kim DotCom

03:24:11 joshbuddy: danielpbarron: where was that quote from?

03:24:15 joshbuddy: also, thanks for voice

03:24:16 danielpbarron: it's Matthias https://archive.is/8ovft#selection-839.1-839.218

03:25:17 decimation: btcg: do you use this tutanota app?

03:25:52 btcg: !register CDA330208F2249841291524C65A7427639BAE3AB

03:25:52 assbot: Nick btcg is already taken.

03:26:03 btcg: i use their webmail mostly

03:26:08 danielpbarron: !h

03:26:08 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

03:26:12 decimation: btcg: heh sucks I'm not sure if you can unregister

03:26:34 danielpbarron: !changekey

03:26:34 assbot: You need to specify your new key fingerprint.

03:27:01 decimation: yeah auth with assbot and use that ^

03:27:04 btcg: !changekey CDA330208F2249841291524C65A7427639BAE3AB

03:27:04 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/90180887373ba656

03:27:55 btcg: tuta is nice at least encrypts all email

03:28:39 danielpbarron: i can do that with gmail + gnupg

03:29:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39419 @ 0.00028808 = 11.3558 BTC [+] {2}

03:29:24 decimation: yeah how is something 'encrypted' on a website that isn't under your control?

03:30:53 justJanne: I can do that with Thunderbird, K9 and GnuPG.

03:32:06 BingoBoingo: K9? You trust private keys on mobile devices?

03:32:23 danielpbarron: the point being, your email client shouldn't have anything to do with your encryption

03:32:33 decimation: or mail storage

03:33:32 justJanne: BingoBoingo: Yes — remember, I use no Google services, and modified half of the apps on my phone myself.

03:36:46 decimation: justJanne: yeah but have you examined your phone's firmware?

03:37:18 BingoBoingo: And hardware

03:37:19 williamdunne: !up btcg

03:37:37 btcg: thanks william

03:38:08 mike_c: mircea_popescu: you should be able to drop this link in as the source of the iframe: http://www.btcalpha.com/bb_frame.html?height=90&ref=1GiSXgAhjqYvAB17JjXX8YCqNCizCjLJgp

03:39:08 williamdunne: v.welcome

03:39:08 williamdunne: !gettrust assbot btcg

03:39:08 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user btcg: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=btcg | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/btcg/

03:39:16 williamdunne: !gettrust assbot williamdunne

03:39:17 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user williamdunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=williamdunne | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/williamdunne/

03:39:31 justJanne: decimation: BingoBoingo: compiled from source myself every month.

03:39:50 justJanne: And monitoring all networked IO.

03:39:51 mike_c: ;;later tell mircea_popescu: ad ready, see log 5 lines up

03:39:51 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:39:53 mats: how about your baseband fw?

03:39:59 BingoBoingo: ^

03:40:22 williamdunne: mats: How about you hard disk controller?

03:40:58 mats: i can dump it, can you?

03:41:04 justJanne: The ISP I'm using was started by a few people from the CCC, so from that side not too high of a risk.

03:41:36 justJanne: And I'd like to dump the firmware, but that would violate copyright.

03:42:40 mats: fwiw i use a smartphone too, the point being rammed here is that you don't really have an expectation of security.

03:42:49 mats: layer accordingly.

03:43:18 williamdunne: ;;seen samouraiwallet

03:43:18 gribble: samouraiwallet was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 14 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <SamouraiWallet> cool system. tying in wot with irc +v

03:47:06 danielpbarron: btcg, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136035 << you need to decrypt this with your first key, and send the result back as !v [decrypted string]

03:47:06 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 03:27:04; assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/90180887373ba656

03:47:53 danielpbarron: there is no "auth with assbot" and all actions come with a OTP

03:48:22 btcg: ah ok, well 404

03:48:35 williamdunne: btcg: Easiest way is wget -O - URL | gpg -d

03:48:36 danielpbarron: expired. try again

03:48:55 williamdunne: Automate using this

03:48:56 williamdunne: http://bitstein.org/blog/bash-function-for-assbot-authentication/

03:49:56 danielpbarron: williamdunne, that means you're decrypting on the same machine that has internet?

03:49:56 williamdunne: Yes, I'm a peasant that does that

03:49:56 mircea_popescu: mike_c win

03:49:56 btcg: !changekey CDA330208F2249841291524C65A7427639BAE3AB

03:49:56 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5844d86bdf7b9395

03:49:56 williamdunne: I'll eventually create another key offline which I'll use as a master or summin

03:49:56 williamdunne: In case of breach

03:49:58 williamdunne: Stick authentication of it in deedbot or summin

03:50:21 mircea_popescu: mike_c will be going up shortly, guy's online and all.

03:50:26 cazalla: lol those comments always remind me of this scene https://youtu.be/n16uBK71miQ?t=1m

03:51:26 mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i have my doubts about how all that *pathic stuff works. kinda weaponized terminology, like "heretic"/"disbeliever" in middle ages.

03:51:26 cazalla: what sorta person are you mircea_popescu terrorizing those poor sods on fetlife

03:52:26 btcg: !v assbot:btcg.changekey.cda330208f2249841291524c65a7427639bae3ab:6448f8043a7a44284ff9e38a2c9c7c34ffb455f01d9c8618ec07770e996d43a9

03:52:26 assbot: Key 39BAE3AB / "boxsk <boxsk@tutanota.com>" successfully imported.

03:52:26 assbot: New key fingerprint for btcg is: CDA330208F2249841291524C65A7427639BAE3AB

03:52:48 mircea_popescu: cazalla the masochist and the terrorist. should be a book.

03:53:47 BingoBoingo: !up dandelany

03:54:10 mircea_popescu: <justJanne> BingoBoingo: Yes ? remember, I use no Google services, and modified half of the apps on my phone myself. << o.O what are you, like a hacker ???

03:54:29 justJanne: A CompSci student.

03:54:56 mircea_popescu: you gotta appreciate, a compsci student in the us is a guy that's too autistic to deal drugs.

03:55:05 mircea_popescu: otherwise about as literate.

03:55:15 mircea_popescu: !up btcg

03:55:17 justJanne: Nah, they'd fail Math101 here.

03:55:32 mircea_popescu: iirc math101 is no longer with numbers

03:55:32 justJanne: Without that you can't progress in CompSci.

03:55:34 mircea_popescu: they were racist.

03:55:47 justJanne: And math101 is helpful here, about 90% fail that class.

03:56:09 justJanne: Helps keep the study free from scriptkiddies.

03:56:15 btcg: ty mircea_popescu

03:58:05 justJanne: And, tbh, math101 at university isn't supposed to work with numbers. Math 101 is set theory, logic, lists, trees, functions, relations, sur/in/bijectivity, upper and lower bounds, complexity, etc.

03:58:23 mircea_popescu: i think alf might fall in love.

03:58:43 BingoBoingo: justJanne: At my school those topics were all in 300 series classes.

03:58:57 mircea_popescu: yeah, but you went to a good school.

03:59:18 BingoBoingo: lol

03:59:24 justJanne: Right now I'm taking second semester classes, last week homework was doing RSA on paper.

03:59:32 justJanne: In math

03:59:40 mircea_popescu: i have my doubts if you could get a decent definition of the notion of number from one in ten us graduates.

04:00:23 justJanne: Using only 16-bit Keys, cause everything else would be overkill.

04:00:47 BingoBoingo: In the calculus series classes test questions were taken from the homework, which was conducive to drinking whiskey before tests.

04:00:57 justJanne: For RSA you obviously need groups, spaces, bodies, rings, etc.

04:01:07 mircea_popescu: or rote.

04:01:48 justJanne: Bbl.

04:08:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135682 << because the last mile MUST be decentralized

04:08:19 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 23:34:39; williamdunne: Read the article, and I still don't see how that makes it bad for the last mile

04:08:24 mircea_popescu: that's the entire fucking point.

04:08:47 mircea_popescu: having a central (marketplace = central) for it is about as stupid as fire extinguishers loaded with gasoline.

04:10:36 BingoBoingo: On standby for errors http://qntra.net/2015/05/weak-4096-bit-rsa-key-in-strong-set-factored-more-factored-keys-follow/

04:11:36 mircea_popescu: it all stems from a very funamental confusion as to what things are andwhat technology can do. the idea being that technology = magic, and so it can change the nature of things. take marketplaces, which are by nature centralizing, and magic them into being decentralising. meanwhile irl, technology works to increase quantitatively, not to alter qualitatively.

04:11:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135686 << first=best only if(only)

04:11:45 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 23:39:53; pete_dushenski: williamdunne i really have nfi what the first trade was. if you say it's weed, we'll go with that, but that doesn't mean that first=best

04:12:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135696 << maybe they could make them also fly, i'd donate.

04:12:37 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 23:41:43; williamdunne: Disagree with the cause, but pretty cool project IMIO

04:16:25 BingoBoingo: !up btcg

04:25:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135741 << check it out, jdif > 9000!

04:25:46 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 00:14:21; ben_vulpes: trying out a new fried chicken joint

04:27:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135769 << what, pray tell, is a ticky tacky.

04:27:15 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 00:38:24; pete_dushenski: "solidarity forever", "ticky tacky houses", etc.

04:27:30 mircea_popescu: something to do with bare adolescentine breasts, one would hope, for the sake of everyone's sanity ?

04:27:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22750 @ 0.00028902 = 6.5752 BTC [+] {2}

04:29:57 danielpbarron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUoXtddNPAM <- ticky tacky

04:30:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135802 << is that FURRY road ?

04:30:58 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 00:58:08; mats: http://www.metacritic.com/movie/mad-max-fury-road << surprised metacritic treats it so well

04:32:37 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron i'm not closer to comprehension

04:33:08 mircea_popescu: but she's REALLY bad. i mean sweet singer of michigan level bad.

04:34:08 danielpbarron: I think it's like this -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-05-2015#1129306

04:34:08 assbot: Logged on 12-05-2015 22:05:41; mircea_popescu: "here i sit in a prefab vinyl siding plebhousing unit, burning a 50 dollar bill" ?

04:34:18 mircea_popescu: ah ic.

04:36:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135840 << learned to maff in kindergarten, check (c3 folks know what this is about lolk) ; reverse-hacked leet online haxxors, exposed irc chatroom, check. alfie baby...

04:36:24 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 01:35:23; justJanne: Sometimes when I get DDoSd I run nmap against the attacking servers, one time I found a small IRC server with only one channel, in which were 256 clients all with just a number as name, and one other client sending specific commands every few minutes

04:38:24 asciilifeform: l0lwut

04:39:00 asciilifeform: 256 clients all with just a number as name... << SOP. one (at least formerly common) botkit which did this was 'athena.' many others likewise.

04:39:57 asciilifeform: barbaric but reasonably resilient (herder would hardcode several boxes to act as irc servers, several controlled by himself normally and a few reasonably lax public irctrons)

04:41:05 asciilifeform: an example of this animal: http://www.trojanbotnet.com/2014/04/botnet-irc-silly-bot-16-c-irc-bot-new.html

04:42:05 asciilifeform: (just google 'slowloris' - for some reason ddos command was always given this name)

04:47:31 asciilifeform: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9562170 << mildly interesting

04:48:31 asciilifeform: 'During that time, attackers were able to monitor the activities of anyone using the kernel.org servers known as Hera and Odin1, as well as personal computers belonging to senior Linux developer H. Peter Anvin. The self-injecting rootkit known as Phalanx had access to a wealth of sensitive data, possibly including private keys used to sign and decrypt e-mails and remotely log in to servers. A follow-up advisory a few weeks lat

04:48:31 asciilifeform: er opened the possibility that still other developers may have fallen prey to the attackers.'

04:58:05 BingoBoingo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9562918

04:59:05 *: asciilifeform caught up with log, links, overwhelmed by sheer retardation of the pg wank circus, maxxed out dosimeter

05:03:45 BingoBoingo: Probably for the best

05:10:40 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the animals in the photo at bottom of your latest article look like guinea pigs

05:29:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38800 @ 0.0002857 = 11.0852 BTC [-] {3}

05:43:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.00027879 = 8.5449 BTC [-] {3}

05:59:10 asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/18/big_rsa_keys_are_vulnerable_says_researcher << more lulz

06:00:10 asciilifeform: the mis-spellings are a deliberate trollage, or what.

06:00:10 asciilifeform: 'phunctor' ?!

06:00:36 BingoBoingo: lolocoaster

06:01:08 asciilifeform: anyone with an account (yes, they require one even for 'anonymous' comments) is welcome to post one.

06:04:57 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Bp6Wh << cached

06:05:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice that idiots are doing their pressing. "If I wanted to poison HPA with a fake key, why would I create a degenerate one? A fake key with strong factors would have gone unnoticed, at least by this analysis"

06:05:57 mircea_popescu: right, because poisoning hpa was the idea, not poisoning others.

06:05:57 mircea_popescu: team meade scores another hit on their imaginary, wildly irrelevant scoreboard. for which they get paid. with tax dollars. by idiots.

06:06:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not deliberate trolalge, deliberate damage control. can't google misspelled terms

06:06:43 asciilifeform: ahahahahaha

06:06:52 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1504 << updated

06:07:52 mircea_popescu: again. team meade scores another hit on their imaginary, wildly irrelevant scoreboard.

06:07:52 mats: this is badly written

06:07:52 mats: as though no editor was involved at all

06:07:52 asciilifeform: mats: haste - makes waste

06:07:52 asciilifeform: or how'd it go

06:07:52 mircea_popescu: ?Holy shit, they broke RSA!? or ?This is false advertising, they didn?t really do anything!? imbeciles, << no but it's THE CONTROVERSY

06:07:52 mircea_popescu: aaaaand fort meade scoressssss again!111 on their ...

06:09:08 mats: 'phunctor', thins instead of things, using 'Loper-OS' and 'Loper-os', shitloads of passive tense sentences...

06:09:28 asciilifeform: they must employ the residents of a home for the profoundly retarded

06:09:32 asciilifeform: is the inescapable conclusion.

06:09:37 mats: er, passive voice.

06:12:47 asciilifeform: for anyone still awake, i'm presently wondering re: how the rotten keys behave in autoverifier scripts (debian ? etc)

06:13:12 asciilifeform: worth considering - where are they likely to come into play (as fetched from sks)

06:13:21 mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone has a ready link to the discussion of the reddit deleting the blockchain thing because they had so much fucking consensus it ended up imploding under their feet ?

06:13:34 mircea_popescu: worth a test.

06:17:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a screenshot image, linked in a fraudsters article

06:17:55 asciilifeform: can't recall presently, where.

06:18:36 mircea_popescu: ah was fraudsters huh. brb

06:19:05 BingoBoingo: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/36c3ac/weak_4096_bit_rsa_key_in_strong_set_factored_more/

06:20:15 mircea_popescu: and in the daily 8cha lulz, https://8ch.net/btc/res/33.html#198

06:21:57 asciilifeform: what even.

06:22:10 mircea_popescu: i dunno but it seems serious.

06:22:17 mircea_popescu: halp halp i've been lyfthreatenet across hte internets

06:22:45 mircea_popescu: this constitutes harassment in zoe quinn degree. i now must have my own oprah show.

06:36:30 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/05/eg-gs.pdf << unrelated l0ltr0n

06:38:04 asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/167XKEJ#wrap << text

06:39:04 mircea_popescu: !up joshbuddy

06:47:27 mircea_popescu: in other news, the next batch of usg dept of internet outsourcers, to replace the current batch of third worlders : http://i.imgur.com/9EG2jYA.gifv

06:51:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62159 @ 0.00027873 = 17.3256 BTC [-] {2}

07:14:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48250 @ 0.00027944 = 13.483 BTC [+]

07:18:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14474 @ 0.00028126 = 4.071 BTC [+] {2}

07:19:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00028787 = 6.1028 BTC [+]

07:39:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00027723 = 9.7585 BTC [-] {2}

07:47:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00029087 = 13.9908 BTC [+]

07:50:45 mircea_popescu: !up zlrth

08:03:35 BingoBoingo: !up referredbyloper

08:09:40 mircea_popescu: !up LC^

08:10:49 mircea_popescu: LC^ go ahead ?

08:11:28 LC^: mircea_popescu: Hi. Can we chat privately?

08:11:47 mircea_popescu: i don't know you, so no.

08:13:09 LC^: I'm a journalist. I shared my identity via privmsg.

08:13:36 mircea_popescu: that's fine, but it doesn't help.

08:13:55 mircea_popescu: the right move would be to get in the wot, cultivate your presence here afterr which next time you may have an angle.

08:13:58 mircea_popescu: at the moment, you do not.

08:17:41 LC^: I want to write an article about your Phuctor-related findings.

08:17:45 mircea_popescu: cool.

08:18:15 BingoBoingo: LC^: You may also want to hang around for when Stan wakes up

08:18:38 LC^: so wanted to get your opinion on the issues that have been raised, mainly that the first key was not signed by the owner so was likely added by someone else, with or without malicious intent.

08:19:06 LC^: and whether the other keys that have been factored are similar

08:19:20 LC^: or are there indications that they've been generated by a broken generator

08:19:57 LC^: I guess that is the main problem you're trying to highlight, correct? that some generators might be broken and generate weak keys

08:20:35 mircea_popescu: there is at least one key with a p over nine digits.

08:21:04 mircea_popescu: there are all sorts of classes of broken keys, which we're obviously still sorting through.

08:21:36 mircea_popescu: that aside, the question of how exactly weak keys came to be, and what are they doing there and so on and so forth is not nearly as uninteresting as the usg agency would like to make it.

08:23:10 LC^: are you suggesting that some software was intentionally sabotaged to produce weak keys?

08:23:44 mircea_popescu: i am plainly saying that while the weak keys incontrovertibly exist, it's unclear why they exist. someone put the effort into making them, which is not exactly trivial.

08:25:59 LC^: OK, but can they actually be used? some argued that the weak key supposedly belonging to hpa can't be used to decrypt emails or other data encrypting by him because it was not signed by his real key

08:27:13 LC^: can it be used for impersonation?

08:27:13 mircea_popescu: this is factually correct. it is also not the whole story.

08:27:28 LC^: OK, what is the whole story?

08:27:45 mircea_popescu: one of the more interesting constructions as to the possible intended uses is, a tandem arrangement. it would work like so :

08:27:51 LC^: I'm just trying to understand what the risk is here and why would someone create such keys, intentionally

08:27:58 mircea_popescu: suppose someone needs to talk to hpa - either to verify his signature or to send him encrypted communications.

08:28:07 LC^: ok..

08:28:17 mircea_popescu: with a correctly working pgp implementation, the user connects ot a sks server, discards the wrong key and proceeds as expected.

08:28:49 mircea_popescu: if however his pgp implementation is compromised in a specific way, the wrong key on the server may very well be the magic packet, causing it to behave in an unexpected - and not otherwise detectable - manner.

08:29:07 mircea_popescu: such as, encrypt to it, or email the NSA, or whatever else.

08:29:28 mircea_popescu: this sort of thing (the so called "fail to pass" testing) is the exact sort of stuff we've seen from the nsa to date, and so it would mesh with that experience.

08:29:36 LC^: I see, so the key would serve as an exploit of sorts or a trigger

08:29:43 mircea_popescu: but it is a theory - until someone produces such a diddled implementation it stays a theory.

08:29:51 mircea_popescu: LC^ essentially.

08:30:12 mircea_popescu: in any case, the idea that hpa is the target of that attack - if indeed it is an attack - are at best naive and at worst disinfo.

08:30:22 mircea_popescu: clearly people looking at/for him would be the target, if anything.

08:31:01 mircea_popescu: this, of course, is not the only mechanism that would allow such a key to exist. nevertheless, alternative explanations border on the risible.

08:31:15 LC^: particularly people looking to send him highly confidential info that would need to be encrypted

08:31:50 mircea_popescu: especially amusingm, the "key was damaged in transit" one. people p2p HD movies all day, nobody's seen this. gpg data moves around as archives - try flipping a byte in an archive see if you can stil lget the content. etc.

08:31:57 mircea_popescu: LC^ yes.

08:33:19 mircea_popescu: understand, opsec is extremely weak all over. including among supposedly experienced hackers. so, a simple scenario : guy with owned userland gpg sends secret info to hpa, it is magically encrypted to wrong key, email sniffed en route, secret is now known, but only to the people knowing what to look for. hpa responds with something like bad key, guy re-encrypts it and resends it.

08:33:24 mircea_popescu: he never knows he's been compromised.

08:33:41 mircea_popescu: nobody keeps track of "mysterious" errors etc.

08:35:12 LC^: there are parts in some archive formats you can modify and the archive will still work, though year I understand your point, the suggested theory of damaged in transit would suggest random damaging not controlled modification

08:35:46 mircea_popescu: how often have you moved a file across the tubes ? how often did it have a magically changed byte ?

08:35:57 mircea_popescu: because i did lots of the former and the latter never occured.

08:36:01 LC^: OK, what about the other keys? Are they similar to hpa's key? in the sense that they've been attached to other keys, but lack the proper signature?

08:36:33 mircea_popescu: there are other people matching exactly hpa's profile (high value foss target) with keys apparently added in the same manner. not too many.

08:36:37 mircea_popescu: there are also other types.

08:38:34 LC^: how many keys have you found so far? do you plan to disclose the owners of the other keys that are similar to hpa's? it doesn't seem to be a big risk there for the owners

08:39:37 *: adlai thinks a better question could be, "just quite how little human and computer labor did this experiment take?"

08:39:48 mircea_popescu: there's been a total of three pairs, so six total keys to date. i have little doubt that as the program progresses through the list, more will be found. generally, the idea is to discuss this with the owners and them only.

08:40:07 mircea_popescu: the case of hpa was exceptional because at the time the lightning struck (and understand just how unlikely the event we had on our hands this morning was), a call had to be made.

08:40:24 mircea_popescu: in that particular circumstance, where an outside but present chance existed that the box was compromised itself.

08:40:26 mircea_popescu: !up LC^

08:41:29 mircea_popescu: we might consider publishing the "harmless" keys, but for one thing i am not altogether convinced they're so harmless, and for another, much more interesting would be a hunt for diddled php implementations.

08:41:35 mircea_popescu: now THAT would be something if found.

08:42:13 LC^: have you attempted to notify the owners yet and have you had any responses from them?

08:42:17 mircea_popescu: adlai i would guess something between 50 and 100 BTC's worth of S.NSA engineer's time, and maybe a few months-box worth of hardware.

08:42:23 mircea_popescu: LC^ yes and no.

08:43:13 mircea_popescu: not terribly costly, considering what "VC" firms spend and what they get for it.

08:44:03 LC^: so do you expect your findings to inspire such a hunt?

08:44:33 mircea_popescu: it's already underway. but, the more the merrier. this is the sort of thing where one can make a difference.

08:44:48 mircea_popescu: clicking on cat pics, and derping about what zoe whoever said about imaginary feminist issues is a waste of one's youth.

08:44:59 mircea_popescu: this however... this is something where raising awareness actually does something.

08:45:02 mircea_popescu: !up referredbyloper

08:48:33 mircea_popescu: ehh, diddled php implementations << obviously i mean pgp not php.

08:48:58 mircea_popescu: who the hell came up with the idea of putting these together even ;/

08:49:34 mircea_popescu: lol

08:49:36 mircea_popescu: !up wiz

08:51:58 LC^: mircea_popescu: thx for answering my questions so far. I have to jump on a call, but if I decide to go ahead with an article on this and have additional questions I'll look for you around here.

08:52:09 mircea_popescu: sure.

09:00:59 mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/South_Vietnam_Map.jpg << such a lulzy map.

09:01:59 mircea_popescu: pro tip : the north won.

09:04:53 mircea_popescu: !up msdkc

09:14:04 mircea_popescu: !up referredbyloper

09:17:41 mircea_popescu: mats http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Girl_volunteers_of_the_People's_Self-Defense_Force_of_Kien_Dien%2C_a_hamlet_of_Ben_Cat_district_50_kilometers_north_of_Sai_-_NARA_-_541865.tif/lossy-page1-250px-Girl_volunteers_of_the_People's_Self-Defense_Force_of_Kien_Dien%2C_a_hamlet_of_Ben_Cat_district_50_kilometers_north_of_Sai_-_NARA_-_541865.tif.jpg << check out that grip.

09:31:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24028 @ 0.00028967 = 6.9602 BTC [-]

09:33:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00028997 = 11.4538 BTC [+]

09:40:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00028967 = 10.8192 BTC [-]

09:55:02 mircea_popescu: !up Mugge

09:55:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41650 @ 0.00028997 = 12.0773 BTC [+]

09:56:14 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135996 < hm ?

09:56:14 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 03:05:47; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla hey, is something the matter with assbot ?

09:56:37 mircea_popescu: was kinda slow/suffering for a while. seems ok now.

09:57:22 mircea_popescu: http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/

09:58:22 kakobrekla: thats freenodes issue

09:58:22 mircea_popescu: does it not do titles anymore ?

09:58:22 kakobrekla: titels are depending on log1 iirc

09:59:40 mircea_popescu: oh that still dead ?

09:59:57 kakobrekla: apparently

10:00:39 mircea_popescu: dja need me to reset pw or something there ?

10:01:31 kakobrekla: dunno it was sorta almost working until you started to fiddle with varnish

10:01:36 kakobrekla: since then nfi

10:02:19 kakobrekla: brb

10:03:31 mircea_popescu: sorry!

10:19:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00028997 = 8.9021 BTC [+]

10:42:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00028997 = 5.5674 BTC [+]

10:48:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17820 @ 0.00028997 = 5.1673 BTC [+]

10:54:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22788 @ 0.00028976 = 6.6031 BTC [-] {2}

11:05:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-02-2015#1035777 << this is one for kakobrekla

11:05:17 assbot: Logged on 28-02-2015 01:55:22; cazalla: so i made a bitbet under the influence and couldn't fund it until later, i assume 0 conf address listed for it in /propositions/ is the address of which i need to fund?

11:05:59 cazalla: he answered it from memory but why necro that?

11:06:25 kakobrekla: click on the 0conf amount

11:06:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-02-2015#1035818 << meet the slavegirls sometime.

11:06:47 assbot: Logged on 28-02-2015 02:20:09; trinque: flushing with fear on command is to my knowledge not possible

11:07:15 mircea_popescu: cazalla shit i was doing a very old log lol.

11:07:29 mircea_popescu: sorry.

11:12:52 mircea_popescu: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/who-rooted-kernel-org-servers-two-years-ago-how-did-it-happen-and-why/

11:13:53 mircea_popescu: "More than two years after unknown hackers gained unfettered access over multiple computers used to maintain and distribute the Linux operating system kernel, officials still haven't released a promised autopsy about what happened."

11:13:53 mircea_popescu: case exactly mirrored by freenode : about a year after they lost at least one server to what appeared like quite the nsa, and promising a full investigation, nothing's been released.

11:27:24 mircea_popescu: !up deface

11:27:28 mircea_popescu: mike_c https://8ch.net/btc/index.html << it's live.

11:36:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1135914 << i dun recall who put it in, mebbe davout but at any rate from what i've seen they couldn't get consensus behind the "inaccurate title" theory, or w/e it's called there. so that didn't werk.

11:36:26 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 02:45:11; decimation: Note that your headline was dinged for being inaccurate, while this guy's blog is more inaccurate by his own admission

12:01:13 mircea_popescu: cazalla i find from 8chan that you suck. link related https://8ch.net/btc/res/33.html#212

12:02:13 cazalla: bwahaha

12:02:56 cazalla: what can i say other than he's right.. 9/10 aussies i met on 4chan love nothing more than shit posting

12:03:54 mircea_popescu: ?rate cazalla -2 australian which is bad

12:11:20 cazalla: r u trying to shit post me back or wot m8

12:11:43 mircea_popescu: lol

12:33:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7107 @ 0.00027649 = 1.965 BTC [-] {2}

12:52:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34300 @ 0.00027934 = 9.5814 BTC [+]

12:54:50 justJanne: Anyone read http://thiébaud.fr/robots.txt.html yet?

12:55:50 justJanne: I’m downloading all those hidden state.gov documents right now

12:56:57 mircea_popescu: ahaha good idea

12:57:15 mircea_popescu: "look in robots.txt for directories that derps inadvertently exposed"

13:13:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46450 @ 0.00028017 = 13.0139 BTC [+] {4}

13:15:50 jurov: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/1-bitcoin-community-controls-99-bitcoin-wealth/ but warning, causes brainhurt

13:16:50 asciilifeform: jurov: i regret to say that i may have been responsible for the first such article.

13:17:09 asciilifeform: (though it, in turn, used data from a paper, cited therein)

13:32:35 jurov: "made me reminisce about the old days of Occupy Wall Street".. like, it was 20 years ago?

13:33:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00028691 = 1.621 BTC [+]

13:33:16 asciilifeform: jurov: the derpfest in question was so blatantly an organized 'astroturf' affair that it vanished as thoroughly as anything from 20 yrs ago

13:33:19 mircea_popescu: dude, three year's a lifetime for these ephemerides

13:35:45 jurov: ye olde tea partie

13:36:39 asciilifeform: pee partie

13:41:43 asciilifeform: http://www.securitylab.ru/news/472954.php << disgraceful. even here.

13:42:43 asciilifeform: motherfuckers.

13:42:43 asciilifeform: 'phunctor' aha

13:52:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00028743 = 4.0096 BTC [+] {2}

13:56:30 mats: mircea_popescu: terrible trigger discipline

13:58:16 mats: looks like she has her finger in the well

14:01:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37003 @ 0.00028278 = 10.4637 BTC [-]

14:05:35 mats: and as an aside the high ready position is inferior

14:06:50 asciilifeform: mats: good position for folks with terrible trigger discipline ?

14:07:06 asciilifeform: let'em drill the sky full of holes instead of the fella behind or in front

14:08:32 mike_c: ads look like they're working (technically at least). we'll see if 8chan'ers have any money.

14:10:33 mats: their fire will be less accurate in a firefight after a day's patrol due to muscle fatigue

14:11:40 mircea_popescu: mats she holds it like it's a broom

14:12:08 asciilifeform: obligatory >>> http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/pdu/17573280/45724/45724_900.jpg

14:13:08 mats: mircea_popescu: oh, lol

14:23:20 asciilifeform: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Researchers-Break-RSA-4096-Bit-Keys-481475.shtml << oddly, one fishwrap got the name spelled.

14:27:46 mats: http://imgur.com/bXPjbOf

14:30:30 mats: http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/29086710/emergency-crews-responding-to-downed-aircraft-near-bellows-air-force-base

14:31:30 mats: osprey falls outta the sky, again

14:38:35 mats: http://www.janes.com/article/51469/russia-s-armour-revolution

14:52:59 mats: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/world/middleeast/isis-ramadi-iraq.html Ramadi falls against IS

14:55:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00028347 = 4.7198 BTC [+]

14:55:26 mats: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2015-05/18/content_20752740.htm Chinese economic reform for 2015

14:59:18 mats: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/5/16/former-egyptian-president-morsi-sentenced-to-death.html

15:00:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18878 @ 0.00028278 = 5.3383 BTC [-]

15:00:29 mod6: 8 broken keys now eh?

15:05:24 justJanne: 8 broken subkeys, it seems.

15:05:35 justJanne: Most of them don't seem to be valid.

15:07:31 mod6: how do you know they're subkeys? did I miss this in the log?

15:08:44 mike_c: it was discussed on hacker news. looks like there are a handful of invalid subkeys on the sks servers

15:09:22 mod6: oh yeah, i saw that on outside sites.

15:09:31 mod6: thx

15:10:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00028347 = 3.2316 BTC [+]

15:41:13 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu observation: the only thing that doesn't parallelize linearly is the multiplication (still parallelizes as previously discussed, by split into cache-sized batches across cores.) but gcd against a known product does parallelize linearly...

15:41:13 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:41:35 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu we put this in next ver. and retest whole orchestra weekly..

15:41:35 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:58:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00028347 = 13.3798 BTC [+]

16:04:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17692 @ 0.00028278 = 5.0029 BTC [-]

16:18:51 hanbot: BingoBoingo Weak 4096 Bit... suggested edits: "the compromised key in question was" / question which was ; " not only on their total length of the key" / the total length ; "two very large prime number" / numbers ; "subverted by an adversary from the key's generation" / range from the key's ; "what failings of they keyserver" / the keyserver ; "they have yet to factored by" / yet to be factored ; "this highlight a number of" / highlights

16:18:59 hanbot: & nice work

16:18:59 gribble: Error: "nice" is not a valid command.

16:19:10 ben_vulpes: buenos dias

16:20:57 hanbot: hola

16:21:32 justJanne: soo many bots :o

16:22:57 *: hanbot is mostly human

16:29:44 trinque: asciilifeform: turns out dieharder uses internal glibc preprocessor directives which cause it to explode when built as c99

16:30:02 trinque: looks easy enough to fix so I'll probably take a crack at it at some point

16:31:53 trinque: --std=c99 kicks on __STRICT_ANSI__ which affects whether __USE_MISC is defined in features.h

16:34:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37188 @ 0.00028265 = 10.5112 BTC [-] {2}

17:18:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52300 @ 0.00028347 = 14.8255 BTC [+]

17:33:50 danielpbarron: !up ascii_field

17:34:09 ascii_field: ty danielpbarron

17:41:35 danielpbarron: !up joshbuddy

17:50:00 trinque: mcclim just blew my mind

17:50:46 ascii_field: trinque: enjoy the rare experience of encountering one's first non-retarded example of something (in this case, gui programming) for the first time.

17:51:20 trinque: ascii_field: I recall somebody "doing" this by bolting webkit to a terminal emulator :p

17:51:38 trinque: I have lived in a sea of shit

17:52:01 trinque: ascii_field: incorporating the command line model into GUI programming is very cool

17:52:14 trinque: and the idea that this GUI widget corresponds directly to some piece of data

17:52:26 trinque: I am merely scratching the surface of what I'm looking at, so far

17:52:57 trinque: seems one could do an incredible database editor in this environment

17:53:18 trinque: run a query, it barfs the results with appropriate widgets given the type of data

17:53:27 trinque: you can click foreign keys to traverse them, so on

17:55:17 ben_vulpes: sign me up

18:01:56 BingoBoingo: hanbot: Patched, thanks

18:03:17 ascii_field: ;;later tell decimation does phrase 'grenzenlos naiv' have any idiomatic meaning on top of the obvious ?

18:03:17 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:04:41 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

18:12:19 ascii_field: so, one of the recent phucked keys contains two subkeys, both of which are phucked. and the self-sig is... valid.

18:12:28 trinque: incredible

18:12:37 ascii_field: but it was cosmic rays, dontcha know.

18:12:47 trinque: anyone interesting?

18:12:53 ascii_field: did you know that cosmic rays could perform signatures ?

18:13:03 trinque: I just learned that yesterday from the fine folks at HN

18:13:07 ascii_field: we should like to harness this engine of undiscovered computronic might

18:13:43 ascii_field: nah, this one doesn't purport to belong to anyone famous

18:15:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.00028719 = 7.9121 BTC [+] {2}

18:33:12 BingoBoingo: !up gares

18:36:17 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

18:39:49 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: got an account at 'the register' ?

18:39:55 BingoBoingo: Nah

18:39:56 ascii_field: ^ anyone else ?

18:40:09 ascii_field: curious if anyone tried to point out their 'mistake'

18:44:01 decimation: ascii_field: not to my limited knowledge. "boundlessly naive"/"unlimited innocence" or something like that.

18:44:20 ascii_field: ty decimation

18:44:39 decimation: apparently the phrased was used in a song http://lyricstranslate.com/en/meine-welt-my-world.html-0

18:45:39 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: the new phukkery implies bad keygeneration in the wild, correct?

18:45:39 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: presently the samples of interest fall into several categories

18:46:10 ascii_field: at least one falls under the classical 'generated and correctly signed with dud key'

18:47:35 ascii_field: several have invalid self-sigs and for a subset of these, a non-rotten antecedent key can be found (as pointed out by the peanut gallery)

18:48:06 ascii_field: the remainder lack any self-sigs and -will- import

18:48:19 decimation: ascii_field: someone on the hn comments also listed the diff between the two keys, and it was 32-bits long

18:48:48 ascii_field: decimation: this is not a consistent pattern across the entire set.

18:49:14 decimation: right, but if a cosmic ray were to zing through a ram stick, I wouldn't expect a 32 bit word to change completely?

18:50:26 ascii_field: decimation: most of my observations thus far are not even remotely consistent with 'bit rot.'

18:50:51 Apocalyptic: <ascii_field> at least one falls under the classical 'generated and correctly signed with dud key' // is that key at least a classic RSA key, meaning its modulus consists of only 2 prime factors as opposed to the case discussed yesterday ?

18:51:26 ascii_field: Apocalyptic, decimation: i will let mircea_popescu include this and other interesting zoological specimens in his next article.

18:51:42 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, noted, thanks

18:51:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30239 @ 0.00028066 = 8.4869 BTC [-]

18:52:49 Apocalyptic: I would like to point out that unless yesterday's modulus was fully factored, which I have no knowledge of, we actually didn't factor the invalid subkey discussed

18:54:38 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: feel free to perform, e.g., miller-rabin on the larger factor

18:54:58 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, I did some trivial factoring on the reminder, got 2 more primes

18:55:10 ascii_field: primes? so there we go.

18:55:14 ascii_field: factored.

18:55:17 Apocalyptic: but there is still this huge reminder, which is certainly not prime, that remains to be factored

18:55:28 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, no, not only primes

18:55:44 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: try pollard-rho

18:56:11 Apocalyptic: on a 311 decimal base number I have my doubts, even msieve refuses to crunch it

18:56:17 Apocalyptic: *311- digits

18:56:24 ascii_field: specifically pollard-rho.

18:56:26 Apocalyptic: but i'll look at it later

18:56:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52200 @ 0.00027691 = 14.4547 BTC [-] {3}

18:57:06 Apocalyptic: (the full factoring is interesting because it's the only way to compute the private exponent d)

18:57:54 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: i was saving this exercise for after we demonstrate that one could 1) sign with the dud key 2) it would verify on some broken pgptron, somewhere

18:59:08 ascii_field: the other thing is,

18:59:23 ascii_field: one of the state-of-art factorizers, lenstra's elliptic curve factorization,

18:59:24 Apocalyptic: "for after we demonstrate that one could 1) sign with the dud key" wait you can sign without fully factoring N ? this is news to me

18:59:32 ascii_field: depends on size of -smallest- factors

19:00:19 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, i thought these it was pretty much NFS all the way

19:00:23 Apocalyptic: *these days

19:00:33 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: yes, because folks are presumed to be using sane keys

19:00:37 ascii_field: consisting of -large- primes

19:01:00 Pierre_Rochard: little intermission to discuss -assets instead of pgp for a sec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdhNkv4ryuM (background on the meme: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pepe-the-frog )

19:03:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00027596 = 2.7596 BTC [-]

19:03:01 Pierre_Rochard: more seriously (?) : https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

19:04:02 Apocalyptic: anyway the remainding part I have is not divisible by primes below something like 1 billion if I remember my tests correctly, may still qualify as -small- though

19:04:02 ascii_field: Pierre_Rochard: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-05-2015#1130899 << relevant thread.

19:04:02 assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:42:17; asciilifeform: re: '21' etc >> 'The cornerstone of the strategy as presented would have been the release of consumer products that would turn power from wall sockets into bitcoin through the widespread dissemination of bitcoin mining chips.' << -somebody- clearly reads the 2013 #b-a logs.

19:04:02 Pierre_Rochard: yup, read it, this is their latest post with more details

19:04:02 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, can you comment on <Apocalyptic> "for after we demonstrate that one could 1) sign with the dud key" wait you can sign without fully factoring N ? this is news to me

19:04:02 Apocalyptic: or did I misunderstand what you were saying ?

19:04:03 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: which part is new to you ?

19:04:43 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, the part where you can sign, which implies knowledge of the private exponent d without having fully factored the modulus N

19:05:16 Apocalyptic: afaik you need to have phi(N) to get d from e, and computing phi(N) is equivalently hard as getting the factorization of N

19:05:43 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: see earlier link re: lenstra. there are algos which are optimized for the kind of scenario which appears to exist here (a multitude of smaller primes rather than two extremely large ones)

19:06:00 Apocalyptic: so I don't get how you can save this factorization exercice for after you sign something...

19:06:02 ascii_field: thus i conjecture that full factorization can be had, at reasonable cost, if there is a reason to attempt it

19:06:15 Apocalyptic: I'm not disputing that

19:06:29 Apocalyptic: i'm disputing you can sign anything without having it first

19:06:52 ascii_field: and what i meant was that one must demonstrate that one could import the pubkey, somewhere, and verify material that was signed with it

19:07:11 Apocalyptic: !up ascii_field

19:07:26 Apocalyptic: I misunderstood what you were saying then

19:08:30 ascii_field: i will say more later, promise.

19:09:42 mircea_popescu: ascii_field sounds great.

19:11:05 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, i'm still thinking about your "exercice for the reader" from yesterday as to how get $othersmuckQ without at least doing a division for every modulus encountered

19:11:28 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: if you come up with answer to this, please wake me up

19:11:46 Apocalyptic: heh, so there is none known to you ?

19:12:03 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: not atm. but i'm currently occupied with other things

19:12:16 Apocalyptic: oh, I thought you knew the answer and it was a challenge

19:12:21 ascii_field: l0l

19:12:26 Apocalyptic: i'm nearly convinced there isn't by now

19:12:36 Apocalyptic: by the very design of the product

19:16:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27450 @ 0.00027585 = 7.5721 BTC [-] {2}

19:18:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136361 << amusingly , that was for a while romania's warez source.

19:18:15 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 14:23:20; asciilifeform: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Researchers-Break-RSA-4096-Bit-Keys-481475.shtml << oddly, one fishwrap got the name spelled.

19:18:40 ascii_field: they had, what was it, crackable 'demos' ?

19:18:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136364 wow.

19:18:45 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 14:31:30; mats: osprey falls outta the sky, again

19:18:51 mircea_popescu: ascii_field somfinlikethat

19:19:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: so in other news one of the keys from last night has a valid sig

19:19:27 ascii_field: and 2/2 moduli phucked

19:19:53 ascii_field: 'cosmic rays!!!111!!1'

19:19:59 ascii_field: didjaknow they can sign

19:19:59 mircea_popescu: yeah yeah. idiots.

19:20:17 mircea_popescu: but this is why you want "the internet" to have its time to proffer its reactions.

19:20:44 mircea_popescu: if you let them "agree" to "the reasonable" "explanation" you can laugh at them later. if you don't, it's gonna be "oh srsly we presented this before stanford" all over again

19:21:03 ascii_field: betcha they're already working on the necessary 'powerpoint.'

19:21:05 mircea_popescu: obviously, nobody is going to have to explain to anybody why they lied or anything, but hey. free internet!

19:21:07 ascii_field: retro-dated.

19:21:13 mircea_popescu: i don't think they can work this fast.

19:21:20 mircea_popescu: which is kinda the point.

19:22:34 ascii_field: in yet other news, one of the invalid-sig keys is a careful reduction of key size by 1 bit, and very interesting pattern of modifications to public N (not one-bit-flip and not from-this-point, but regularly spaced)

19:22:46 ascii_field: the reduction requires altering a header field

19:22:56 ascii_field: (if you've memorized rfc2440 by now you know this)

19:23:03 ascii_field: cosmic rays know how to do this also, we learn

19:23:14 ascii_field: we should stop settling for small change and take this to the astrophysicists

19:23:23 ascii_field: they will be happy to learn just how clever cosmic ray is

19:23:28 trinque: self aware cosmic rays... sounds like greg egan

19:24:17 trinque: ascii_field: gentoo maintainer says dieharder is too fucked to fix https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531268

19:25:17 deedbot-: [fraudsters] On how the factored 4096 RSA keys story was handled, and what it means to you. - http://fraudsters.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/

19:26:17 mircea_popescu: trinque because this is optional now.

19:26:17 ascii_field: 'unfixable' ahahahahaha

19:26:17 trinque: yep, lol

19:26:17 mircea_popescu: "we'll just have a world without diehard. should be fine as long as ux is good"

19:26:17 ascii_field: how about he's locked in a room and only fed once it runs.

19:26:17 ascii_field: how about that.

19:26:17 mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, you know how that goes. "within the constraints". "you can't have this and nsa so this can't be had"

19:26:17 trinque: I've "fixed" it locally which is to say it builds

19:26:17 trinque: does sound like the project could use cleanup beyond that

19:26:17 trinque: but yeah, convenient right?

19:26:17 trinque: as scoopbot is not back I assume deedbot- is the new guy for that too?

19:26:17 mircea_popescu: ever since the us got on this kick about retards using things, stuff that's not for retards has been at a disadvantage.

19:26:21 ascii_field: actively ghettoized and eventually gassed, is more like it

19:26:25 mircea_popescu: trinque i dunno what you two did there. what did you do ?

19:26:41 ascii_field: obligatory: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3203922895939197@naggum.net.html

19:27:41 trinque: mircea_popescu: I noticed scoopbot was absent for a while, and after many complaints just loaded the feeds plugin into tenyks

19:27:41 mircea_popescu: btw, anyone with a slashdot acct ? plox to dump the above link ?

19:27:41 trinque: mircea_popescu: I told william I'd turn it off if his was returning, but it hasn't

19:33:37 hanbot: !up ascii_field

19:35:47 ascii_field: ty hanbot.

19:36:06 trinque: "In closing, for the tl;dr / eli5 / etc crowd : this article is not for you. Go back to doing the dishes, we'll wake you up once you need to buy a new flag." << fucking glorious.

19:36:48 mircea_popescu: im so sick of this "retards are people too" bullshit by now i can't begin to tell you.

19:37:50 mircea_popescu: actually that softpedia piece is notbad.jpg

19:37:55 mircea_popescu: we actually see anything wrong with it even ?

19:40:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00027975 = 5.7908 BTC [+] {2}

19:41:49 mircea_popescu: "Or perhaps they did that stupid human trick that never fails: If you have excess funds, procreate until you no longer have excess funds, then share the funds equally until you all die." << afaik this was never done in practice, outside of easter island. not that women everywhere didn't endlessly & forever try. but anyway, re the ancient women broken strat discussion, THIS is a fine statement of the problem.

19:42:47 davout: trinque: yea, cracked me up too

19:45:42 davout: ben_vulpes: in everyday life you can say "en vélo" and "à vélo", you won't sound retarded either way, the correct way is "à vélo" though, "en voiture", "en avion", "à cheval". depends on whether you're inside or not

19:45:59 mircea_popescu: depends on whether you're riding it or not.

19:46:03 davout: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoHjQs6C4UY

19:47:03 mircea_popescu: how did jonas travel ? a or en ?

19:47:09 mircea_popescu: a baleine, amirite ?

19:48:11 davout: en baleine

19:48:16 mircea_popescu: o srsly ?

19:48:17 davout: that how i'd say it

19:48:18 ascii_field: 'It doesn't work when Nadia Heninger goes to sell Phuctor before Stanford - Nadia Heninger doesn't own Phuctor, and the actual owners are very much present and very much capable to bitchslap her into oblivion.' << actually, 'crime pays.' chick gets a phd and cushy sinecure, etc.

19:48:33 davout: but the more i look into this issue, the murkier it looks

19:48:38 mircea_popescu: if it pays so well how come you're not there aha.

19:48:47 mircea_popescu: davout :) you have been blessed by the b-a fairy.

19:49:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00028346 = 1.7008 BTC [+]

19:49:09 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i was drummed out of academia while reasonably young, for the crime of not-giving-a-rat's-arse

19:49:20 davout: there seems to be something to waht mircea_popescu's saying wrt to 'riding', but it doesn't look that's the full story, i found another source that says both "en/à vélo" are correct

19:49:34 mircea_popescu: !up stoon

19:49:52 davout: mircea_popescu: i wish the b-a fairy gave me more money, instead of more hair

19:50:05 davout: http://www.lefigaro.fr/livres/2011/02/10/03005-20110210ARTFIG00483--cheval-et-en-velo.php

19:51:05 mircea_popescu: davout i think this is one of those stories of old world privilege meanwhile abandoned because impractical and who gives a shit. just don't make it sur, that's niggerspeak

19:51:05 ascii_field: davout: b-a fairy only hands out honourable deaths

19:51:05 ascii_field: to the deserving.

19:51:05 mircea_popescu: and murk to everyone else.

19:51:05 mircea_popescu: hence, "murk moar".

19:51:05 davout: ascii_field: yea, hopefully i end up in decentrally corwdfunded valhalla

19:51:05 davout: mircea_popescu: re niggerspeak, totally

19:51:07 ascii_field: http://i.imgur.com/O3F9CF5.jpg << relevant

19:52:07 BingoBoingo: http://slashdot.org/submission/4440577/the-problem-of-teaching-the-controversy-in-infosec

19:53:07 mircea_popescu: i notice alf is very chan-oriented these days. picrelated all day from this fellow.

19:53:07 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo curious how that goes.

19:53:07 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i typically get'em from diametric

19:53:07 mircea_popescu: what's your score yet, three ?

19:53:07 mircea_popescu: ascii_field what is that even, "fuckhead throne" ?

19:53:07 ascii_field: aha

19:53:07 davout: ascii_field: oh god, the chair

19:53:07 ascii_field: original being, approximately, http://hellogiggles.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/03/hbo-game-of-thrones-iron-throne-lifesize-replica-03.jpg

19:54:07 mircea_popescu: hahaha

19:54:07 trinque: the one with dicks would be more relevant to the show... most plot-oriented softcore porn ever created

19:54:07 davout: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136554

19:54:07 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 19:45:42; davout: ben_vulpes: in everyday life you can say "en vélo" and "à vélo", you won't sound retarded either way, the correct way is "à vélo" though, "en voiture", "en avion", "à cheval". depends on whether you're inside or not

19:54:07 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:54:29 mircea_popescu: is game of thrones the one with a dumb bitch that's the hero in spite of not doing anything ? (outside of feelings)

19:54:36 mircea_popescu: gladiatorial combat something something

19:55:32 davout: mircea_popescu: it has complex psychology11!

19:55:37 trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, she's going around freeing teh peoples, torching the previous rulers with dragons

19:55:51 mircea_popescu: occupy dragonclutch ?

19:56:15 mircea_popescu: "we are the 1 herp, because percents are a jdif conspiracy"

19:56:23 trinque: lol

19:56:30 trinque: total circlejerk character

19:57:03 mircea_popescu: by now, im not so sure of the mental health of tv watchers anyway. i guess it's prolly best not disturb them.

19:57:09 trinque: I have a half-baked notion that people in the US like this show because they are aware of 200 years of history, if that, and only of their own dirt

19:57:14 mircea_popescu: who knows what zombiecalypse lies in wait

19:58:43 mircea_popescu: mike_c how's teh traffix mah bruther ? too much ?

20:00:54 mike_c: 71k hits

20:01:31 mircea_popescu: if it needs to be scaled down you say, i scale.

20:01:34 mike_c: box is still standing. yet another reason I need to move to BISP though. it seems ok for now.

20:01:48 mircea_popescu: kk

20:02:44 BingoBoingo: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/atlanta-cops-probe-lewd-appearance-of-obnoxious-bu/nmFNq/

20:04:35 mircea_popescu: Shook was on the scene, telling 11Alive?s Duffie Dixon that the image was ?highly disturbing, aggravating, obnoxious and illegal.?

20:04:37 mircea_popescu: cocks ? srsly ?

20:06:04 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Appears to have been oatse

20:06:08 BingoBoingo: *goatse

20:06:16 mircea_popescu: oh oh

20:06:24 mircea_popescu: aghagaga way to go goatse!

20:09:00 davout: mircea_popescu: btw

20:09:01 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1134563

20:09:01 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 13:41:39; davout: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://i.imgur.com/g5ci4oK.png <<< the paymium banner

20:09:13 davout: also pls to X.EUR

20:09:38 mircea_popescu: ah yes the eur. aite on it.

20:10:21 mircea_popescu: davout what is it, paymium.com ?

20:10:28 davout: yes

20:12:36 mircea_popescu: davout banner's live.

20:13:02 davout: nice! ty!

20:13:03 mircea_popescu: btw copypaste ^ now there's a banner to a respectable exchange in the rotation, people can buy btc there.

20:13:25 davout: no amerifags though

20:13:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12098 @ 0.0002765 = 3.3451 BTC [-]

20:14:04 mircea_popescu: ah, is it like us-banned.jpg ?

20:14:28 davout: yeah, we do europe, technically EEA + CH

20:14:38 davout: americans are a big no-no

20:14:44 davout: because fatca

20:14:44 mircea_popescu: must suck to be one by now.

20:16:43 davout: so the bitbet banners are generated dynamically from the bets?

20:17:03 mircea_popescu: ayup. mike_c got some serious magic going there, im impresst.

20:18:12 davout: it *is* impressive

20:18:38 mircea_popescu: it all started with kakobrekla 's sane design, which json etc.

20:18:50 mircea_popescu: but it's a tower of cool to shake the very foundations of "web 2.0" idiocy.

20:19:09 mircea_popescu: organically grown, too.

20:19:29 mike_c: thanks! nice things can happen when there is a good foundation to work from.

20:22:43 mod6: yeah, good work!

20:22:56 mircea_popescu: how's huntin' mod6 ?

20:24:09 mod6: ah! good :]

20:25:10 BingoBoingo: Florida and DC Aids capitals of the US http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2015/14_0395.htm

20:26:10 mod6: aside from keeping up with the unfolding nosuchlabs work, within 7000 blocks of my next regression benchmark being finished. should have some new charts to look at in 24 hours.

20:26:10 mod6: s/regression/performance/

20:26:27 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:26:35 ascii_field: 'accidental discharges of firearms' l0l

20:26:47 ascii_field: 'legal intervention'

20:27:29 mod6: And as far as the gentoo stuff goes, I kinda had to put that on hold for a minute. I'm going to finish the rest of that up on real hardware. But to do so, I gotta drive across town and buy a new box. I might wait until after the 1st to continue this front.

20:27:44 mircea_popescu: why do anons on fraudsters prefer to name themselves obama-something ?

20:28:43 mircea_popescu: mod6 i feel you. here's me kinda having to put gentoo on hold for a... minute : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-05-2015#1123691

20:28:43 assbot: Logged on 07-05-2015 05:21:17; mircea_popescu: this is unlikely to EVER change. i tried to move it to gentoo but the attempt burned, toppled and sunk into the swamp.

20:30:51 mircea_popescu: https://8ch.net/btc/res/222.html#226 << holy shit that thing has a face.

20:36:36 mod6: mircea_popescu: ahh, yeah. having gone through the gauntlet already on the thing at least a dozen times in aws, and also now having re-read the Gentoo-Handbook, i feel like I'm very close on this. To complete the guide, i wanna test out all of the steps on real hardware so the steps are accurate. I believe it'll entail something like creating a USB boot image, then booting off of that, then creating a stage3 in a chroot, then deploying that to

20:37:19 trinque: ^ sounds sane

20:37:42 mod6: and trinque, thanks for all your help :]

20:37:46 trinque: if you're booting from USB you can make the chroot a mount of the thing's own partitions

20:37:51 trinque: rather than a copy step; might've been what you meant

20:38:00 trinque: mod6: no problem!

20:38:13 mod6: ah, yeah. that makes sense.

20:39:05 mod6: anyway, i have high hopes that some of these steps could even be automated to aliviate the pain of building this by hand.

20:43:25 *: mircea_popescu follows eagerly.

20:43:27 mircea_popescu: !up Ginux

20:50:00 ben_vulpes: trinque: what the actual fuck "not worth maintaining"

20:50:13 ben_vulpes: forgive the ignorance, but what's wrong with the ebuild from 2 months ago?

20:55:50 trinque: ben_vulpes: the actual dieharder code uses glibc internals in a way that used to work, now does not due to as yet undiscovered source of rust, with vague indications that compiling with std=c99 has implications for glibc

20:56:27 mircea_popescu: he raged at this in logs past few days.

20:56:34 mircea_popescu: eventually idea was to ulibc

20:57:00 trinque: mircea_popescu: does seem that we keep encountering the rot of glibc

20:59:07 trinque: ben_vulpes: that said a working dieharder can be built with my naive patch listed in that bug report

21:08:19 trinque: ben_vulpes: oh and... several weak results from the consumer hardware I have laying around

21:08:50 trinque: so "not worth maintaining" my ass

21:09:15 trinque: I'll chew on the thing for a while and see what comes of it

21:09:25 *: mircea_popescu follows eagerly-er.

21:14:39 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:15:04 ascii_field: trinque: if you are a n00b to dieharder, i must remind you that just about anything looks like 'weak result'

21:15:15 trinque: total n00b

21:15:17 ascii_field: it is a comparative, rather than absolute measure

21:15:21 mircea_popescu: ah good point. mind that merely a failed test is of itself meaningless

21:15:44 mircea_popescu: you must have a theory as to what exactly would it do before you can actually say a rng was shown weak by dieharder.

21:16:21 ascii_field: i will also add that, e.g., digits of 'pi', are beautifully entropic per dieharder and most anything else

21:16:28 mircea_popescu: (if you think about it : an entropy source that always pass tests is by definition not entropic. see last year's amusement with the "guess number" toy alf made)

21:16:47 mircea_popescu: passes*

21:16:59 ascii_field: !s fips

21:17:00 assbot: 8 results for 'fips' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fips

21:17:04 ascii_field: ^ related lulz

21:17:36 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-04-2014#609173

21:17:36 assbot: Logged on 08-04-2014 03:16:07; asciilifeform: don't be the schmuck who builds rng which throws away batches of bits that fail some test

21:18:07 trinque: interesting; I'll consider the dieharder source code a starting point for further research.

21:18:24 *: trinque afk for a bit

21:23:45 mircea_popescu: !up Jautenim

21:24:45 Jautenim: thank you mr p

21:25:20 mircea_popescu: sure. who're you ?

21:27:56 Jautenim: lurker at contravex, fraudsters & the logs for some time now

21:28:56 mircea_popescu: aha

21:29:02 ben_vulpes: trinque: i still have no idea how to do a local overlay for a package pulled from portage

21:29:07 ben_vulpes: naive attempts totally failed

21:29:17 justJanne: @ascii_field, about pi: No, pi is not a good source of entropy

21:29:39 ascii_field: justJanne: as if this needed saying

21:29:49 ascii_field: justJanne: but you will notice that it -passes tests-

21:29:52 justJanne: LOL

21:30:09 ascii_field: ergo, utility for battlefield crypto does not reduce to mathematical tests

21:30:51 mircea_popescu: justJanne the application here is that, if i give you a string of random numbers which unknown to you are the nth digit of pi onwards, you may think you have entropy by "tests".

21:31:01 justJanne: the issue with pi is that it is a very slow RNG

21:31:06 justJanne: and not really good.

21:31:16 mircea_popescu: absolutely 0 good.

21:31:40 ascii_field: justJanne: nothing to do with 'slow' (baily-borwein-plouffe algo is fast, gives nth digit)

21:31:43 mxtm: why would pi be an entropy source

21:31:55 mxtm: it's the same always

21:31:57 mxtm: just never ending

21:31:58 ascii_field: but with the fact that once enemy catches on, he will laugh himself to death (this being your only hope)

21:32:04 justJanne: also true

21:32:26 Jautenim: I came to ask what are the rough requirements

21:32:34 Apocalyptic: <mxtm> it's the same always // what

21:32:35 Jautenim: for running a 0.5.3.1 node

21:32:43 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/health/a-way-to-brew-morphine-raises-concerns-over-regulation.html?_r=1 << mega-l0l

21:33:44 mxtm: Apocalyptic: the nth digit of pi doesn't change

21:33:44 mircea_popescu: Jautenim atm it's practically running on a pogo, so very low.

21:33:44 Apocalyptic: it is actually conjectured that pi contains all the possible finite sequences you can think of

21:33:44 mxtm: yes, but when

21:33:44 Apocalyptic: mxtm, no shit, why would it change ?

21:33:44 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: not merely 'pi', but all transcendentals

21:33:44 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic this is the case for all

21:33:44 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, of course

21:33:44 mircea_popescu: god damned.

21:33:45 mxtm: Apocalyptic: then how would it be an entropy source

21:33:47 mxtm: if it doesn't change

21:33:55 Apocalyptic: mxtm, you read the digits onward...

21:34:01 mircea_popescu: !up gares

21:34:28 mircea_popescu: mxtm it's not a REAL entropy source. it's a defined sequence that may be confused for an entropy source, if one's definition of entropy is test based.

21:34:33 mircea_popescu: read carefully wha was said

21:34:45 ben_vulpes: Jautenim: not a great deal, i think mod6 ran one in less than 200MB of RAM recently, but that was with asciilifeform's 'orphanage thermonuke'

21:34:58 mxtm: yeah, that's what i was trying to convey, it's a defined sequence

21:35:49 ascii_field: 'The yeasts could be locked in secure laboratories, worked on by screened employees. Sharing them with other scientists without government permission could be outlawed.' << what even.

21:35:51 *: ascii_field falls down

21:36:03 Apocalyptic: mxtm, Mersenne twister seeded with a strong seed is also a defined sequence

21:36:20 Apocalyptic: still used as prng

21:36:41 mircea_popescu: prngs not what we're discussing here tho.

21:37:34 Apocalyptic: yeah, he seems to argue that since it's deterministic it's no good

21:38:17 Apocalyptic: but that isn't relevant to the "tests" discussed

21:38:18 Jautenim: I'm planning to rent a cheap vps and run it more or less full time

21:38:26 Jautenim: in order to help testing

21:38:30 mircea_popescu: Jautenim or you could order a pogo and help that effort along ?

21:38:33 Jautenim: lemme know if I can help

21:38:34 mircea_popescu: it's like 10bux

21:38:38 mircea_popescu: !s pogo

21:38:39 assbot: 461 results for 'pogo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo

21:38:39 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: the precaution taught in school is that 'prng is bad because enemy might learn the seed.' which is a 'lie of omission' - given the existence of a relation between bit N and bit N+1, enemy may have the means to infer N+1 (and N-1) from N

21:38:43 mircea_popescu: ^ see that.

21:39:37 Jautenim: mircea_popescu can they be ordered from teh EU?

21:39:56 mircea_popescu: hm, i recall there were supply problems in the eu. but maybe worth a try.

21:40:14 mircea_popescu: at any rate cheaper than a vps.

21:40:33 mircea_popescu: i mean if you have your own iron you don't need it's one thing, but otherwise... best own the box.

21:40:55 mircea_popescu: in other news, "In the newt species Notophthalmus viridescens, males carry out a courtship behavior called amplexus. It consists of males capturing females that do not want to mate with them and using their hind limbs to grasp the females by their pectoral regions." << check out the newt pua!

21:41:54 Jautenim: I'll look into it

21:42:08 mircea_popescu: "Male guppies (Poecilia reticulata) have been observed to forcefully copulate with females by trying to insert their gonopodium (male sex organ) into female?s genital pores, whether or not they are accepting. Sometimes, male guppies also try to forcefully mate with Skiffia bilineata (goodeid) females, which resemble guppy females and tend to share the same habitat, even when guppy females are available. A possible ex

21:42:09 mircea_popescu: planation for this is the deeper genital cavity of S. bilineata, which stimulates the males more than when mating with guppy females."

21:42:14 mircea_popescu: ^ dedicated slut species, omg.

21:42:42 Jautenim: apropos

21:42:46 Jautenim: !register 32FE1E61B1C711186CA378DEFD8981F1BC41ABB9

21:42:46 assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 32FE1E61B1C711186CA378DEFD8981F1BC41ABB9. This may take a few moments.

21:42:47 assbot: Key BC41ABB9 / "Marcel Hernandez (1MA) <e6990620@gmail.com>" successfully imported.

21:42:47 assbot: Registration successful.

21:43:42 mircea_popescu: !rate Jautenim 1 New blood.

21:43:42 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/da18ca543b26d634

21:44:02 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.Jautenim.1:a7148df60687a19ff87c1d6fee176454f47e22b3605b0b356515b3dfd39ba98d

21:44:02 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for Jautenim with note: New blood.

21:49:43 danielpbarron: !up referredbyloper

21:50:31 justJanne: okay, I’m kinda in a hurry – anyone know a fast way to do two-out-of-three in boolean logic with less than 5 operators?

21:51:12 mircea_popescu: !up ETIST

21:51:31 mircea_popescu: lol cheating on homework already!

21:51:49 justJanne: nah,

21:51:51 justJanne: okay, kinda.

21:51:54 justJanne: yes >_>

21:51:55 trinque: ahaha

21:51:57 mxtm: haha

21:52:12 justJanne: the question was to implement the < operator on int with boolean logic

21:52:24 justJanne: we got it down to 8 operations, but others got it in 7

21:52:44 justJanne: the only optimizable place would be the point where we do a two-out-of-three logic

21:52:45 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:52:51 ascii_field: justJanne: 'we' ?!!!

21:53:00 justJanne: currently (a & (b | c)) | (b & c)

21:53:00 mircea_popescu: talmud eh.

21:53:16 justJanne: ascii_field: homework is done in groups of two here at uni, so people learn how to do teamwork

21:53:28 *: mircea_popescu foretold.

21:53:45 trinque: learn how to pass the whole class

21:53:58 justJanne: Yeah, that’s not the issue.

21:54:06 trinque: teaches the best to hold back too; that's always good

21:54:07 mircea_popescu: justJanne your currently is 4 not 8 ? am i confused ?

21:54:26 justJanne: mircea_popescu: the overall question is to implement the < operator

21:54:51 justJanne: https://paste.kde.org/pbyoq0axp

21:55:51 justJanne: as you see, 8 ops

21:56:39 mircea_popescu: lmao

21:56:46 mircea_popescu: switch order around, get rid of not, 7.

21:56:55 justJanne: not possible.

21:57:01 justJanne: remember, we are working with ints

21:57:19 justJanne: so the ! is necessary there to turn -1 into 1

21:57:57 mircea_popescu: doesn't ! turn false into true ?!

21:58:02 justJanne: kinda.

21:58:07 justJanne: this is C.

21:58:15 mircea_popescu: return (( (x & (l1 | ny)) | (l1 & ny) ) >> 31);

21:58:16 justJanne: so everything that is not 0 is automatically true

21:58:18 mircea_popescu: what's that do.

21:58:26 justJanne: it would return 0 or -1

21:58:31 mircea_popescu: so then...

21:58:33 justJanne: as >> moves the sign

21:58:44 justJanne: so you need to do +1 or !

21:58:57 mircea_popescu: <justJanne> so everything that is not 0 is automatically true < ?

21:59:00 justJanne: yes

21:59:15 mircea_popescu: i think you're being german :D

21:59:19 justJanne: 5 is true.

21:59:21 justJanne: 2 is true.

21:59:23 mircea_popescu: -1 ?

21:59:24 justJanne: 1 is true.

21:59:27 justJanne: -10000 is true

21:59:30 justJanne: 0 is false

21:59:35 mircea_popescu: so then the fucntion returns true, false.

21:59:42 justJanne: (kinda)

21:59:52 justJanne: c has no true, nor real false. But it can return 1 or 0

21:59:54 mircea_popescu: you want 7 or don't you ?

21:59:56 justJanne: yes

22:00:03 justJanne: but it’s too late anyway

22:00:05 mircea_popescu: this is where a bring young mind learns what C really is all about :D

22:01:08 justJanne: we did lots of optimizations in the past weeks, homework this week is "you have this blob of binary, find out what it does, circumvent its checks"

22:01:34 ascii_field: justJanne: that last one was called 'the bomb' where i went to school

22:01:52 ascii_field: traditional exercise

22:02:20 ascii_field: it's really just a ritualized version of the familiar cracking of w4r3z

22:03:55 justJanne: yeah.

22:04:06 justJanne: I spent the past days doing the same – actually cracking DRM of Tidal

22:04:29 justJanne: but then I discovered they have an unobfuscated android app, so I got lazy and started instead decompiling that one

22:05:24 ascii_field: justJanne: traditionally copy protection is implemented, where the rubber hits the road, by poor schmucks who aren't dumb enough to believe that it 'works' but still gotta collect that salary, and so 'are only following orderz'

22:05:30 ascii_field: hence tends to be... lackluster

22:05:58 mircea_popescu: kinda funny that drm never got as clever as viruses. even back when both these were clever, the ms-dos era.

22:06:02 justJanne: the in-browser DRM is a native binary that is pretty much stripped of any information, actually kinda hard to use, but the Android version of almost everything is stupid

22:06:10 ascii_field: (there are notable exceptions, e.g., ilfak guilfanov)

22:06:17 justJanne: (yes, Tidal uses a native plugin for in-browser DRM)

22:06:28 mircea_popescu: justJanne what is tidal even ?

22:06:41 justJanne: A music streaming service that streams lossless unedited FLAC files

22:06:54 justJanne: about 1344kbps quality

22:07:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105100 @ 0.00027668 = 29.0791 BTC [+] {4}

22:07:04 ascii_field: if lossless, why not pull'em out of /dev/pcm

22:07:13 justJanne: I wanted a way to scrape them.

22:07:19 trinque: streaming service that got whoever's still considered "famous" in music together, stamped their faces on the thing

22:07:40 mircea_popescu: aha

22:07:53 trinque: "so totally not spotify you see"

22:07:58 justJanne: I found a way, but now I have a few thousand files encrypted, the corresponding PBKDF2WithHmacSHA1 encryption keys, but was too lazy to find the client-side salt for that

22:08:34 justJanne: and the sound quality, tbh, is great. Just not worth 20$ a month

22:09:52 trinque: ah I guess jay-z owns it

22:10:24 mircea_popescu: is this the guy that owns burning man ?

22:11:13 trinque: heh looks like there's some noise about dr dre being behind burning man

22:11:25 trinque: damned hilarious if so, dunno about that

22:12:53 mircea_popescu: oh different one k nm

22:13:01 *: mircea_popescu can't distinguish rappers

22:13:34 justJanne: The difference between Dr Dre and Jay Z? Jay Z’s product actually is something more than marketing speech

22:13:52 ben_vulpes: wowee justJanne with the opinions

22:13:53 justJanne: I mean, Beats are just cheap Philips headphones with a bass boost.

22:13:57 justJanne: literally

22:14:18 trinque: jay-z is probably the best of the rapper-turned-entrepreneurs, yes

22:14:21 ben_vulpes: anyways, Tidal was a flip onto Jay Z who has yet to learn how horrifically expensive software is to build and maintain in fiatland.

22:14:43 mircea_popescu: lawl.

22:14:48 trinque: yup, the people who listen to him and beyonce aren't even paying for spotify

22:15:11 mircea_popescu: wow beyonce is still a thing ?

22:15:18 mircea_popescu: this is the hot model woman from 10 years ago right ?

22:15:19 ben_vulpes: he'll blow a billi, and never touch software again.

22:15:29 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: mami's still lookin good!

22:15:35 trinque: haha hear hear!

22:15:37 mircea_popescu: digital or irl ?

22:15:52 ben_vulpes: last i saw was the hbo special

22:16:03 mircea_popescu: dawg im impressed, this is like black madonna material.

22:16:06 ben_vulpes: 3+ hours of high-octane beyonce wiggle

22:16:09 justJanne: ben_vulpes: still, compared to all those 9000$ expensive audio cables, or Beats headphones, lossless FLAC has an advantage over 128kbps mp3

22:16:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42222 @ 0.00027343 = 11.5448 BTC [-] {2}

22:16:12 mircea_popescu: who ever knew of a black hottie outlast a decade.

22:16:44 trinque: justJanne: yeah just average consumer derp is not going to tell the difference between that and spotify's ogg-whatever

22:16:50 *: ben_vulpes has yet to outlast a decade

22:16:55 mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut. SKIN LIGHTENING ?

22:16:55 trinque: and will just see 10 bucks more than the 10 bucks I'm already not paying

22:17:01 mircea_popescu: you gotta be kidding me.

22:17:03 justJanne: trinque: lol

22:17:09 mircea_popescu: is she inviting preteens over to her estate next ?

22:17:16 justJanne: yeah, still – Tidal is the first service providing CD quality.

22:17:17 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: sauce

22:17:23 mircea_popescu: http://gossipmagazines.net/beyonce-plastic-surgery/

22:18:23 ben_vulpes: justJanne: sure if you discount gnutella.

22:18:23 justJanne: ben_vulpes: we’re talking about services that have a chance of mainstream adoption.

22:18:23 justJanne: gnutella has as much chances of mainstream adoption as Gentoo has

22:18:23 ben_vulpes: bitch please back in the day gnutella /was/ mainstream

22:18:42 ben_vulpes: just because nobody uses it anymore, well.

22:18:44 trinque: who remembers direct connect?

22:18:53 trinque: and winmx?

22:19:04 ben_vulpes: we're getting old, trinque

22:19:05 trinque: man that was a glorious age of the internet

22:19:14 mircea_popescu: <justJanne> gnutella has as much chances of mainstream adoption as Gentoo has << ouch-zing-ouch

22:19:15 ben_vulpes: soon we'll be grumpy like mircea_popescu

22:19:22 trinque: ben_vulpes: goddamn kids don't understand the unlimited buffet that was the intertubes

22:19:37 justJanne: still is!

22:19:47 mircea_popescu: justJanne he doesn't mean pr0n hon.

22:19:56 justJanne: oh.

22:20:00 trinque: lol

22:20:00 mircea_popescu: !b 2

22:20:00 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2FGH014.txt )

22:20:06 mircea_popescu: shit stop messing up my bash ppls!

22:20:11 ben_vulpes: c-c-c-c-c

22:20:15 ben_vulpes: -combo breaker!

22:20:33 trinque: kazaa was when the idiots all joined the party and ruined it

22:20:44 mircea_popescu: stop being raceys trinque

22:20:48 justJanne: hey, at least nowadays the web is getting better again.

22:20:53 ben_vulpes: bwahahahaha

22:20:55 ben_vulpes: ah

22:20:57 ben_vulpes: ho

22:20:58 trinque: I apologize for my senseless outburst of hate

22:20:59 ben_vulpes: hee hee hee

22:21:05 trinque: justJanne: is not youngin

22:21:10 justJanne: Almost every video service hosts plain video files instead of flash-based players for .flv videos anymore

22:21:15 mircea_popescu: ^

22:21:22 mircea_popescu: solid point she has there bitches.

22:21:27 ben_vulpes: justJanne: have you been following the glibc travails?

22:21:39 justJanne: nah.

22:21:41 trinque: yeah I'll grant browsers are going further towards "open techmology" whatever that means

22:21:43 mircea_popescu: what now ? owned by a 19yo girl ? not even speaking her mother tongue ? HOW!!1 do you expect to end up bitter like me this wya ?

22:22:10 trinque: hilarious also that the shit getting put into the browser is effectively whatw as in flash

22:22:18 justJanne: trinque: not necessarily.

22:22:34 mircea_popescu: im really impressed with stuff like gyfcat or w/e that was called.

22:22:35 justJanne: Now I can just grep through the JS, find the link to the .mp4, and wget it, and watch it offline

22:22:38 justJanne: I remember the sad days of having to decompile swf objects just to rip a video.

22:22:44 justJanne: or using *cringe* realplayer

22:22:50 mircea_popescu: and 8chan was, to my surprise, chock full of html5 videos that work just fine.

22:22:56 mircea_popescu: youtube does not work for me, but 8chan does.

22:23:06 trinque: flash was just another ecmascript runtime thing

22:23:09 trinque: with a canvas like the canvas tag

22:23:16 mircea_popescu: justJanne wait, the sad days from when you were... 9 ?

22:23:18 trinque: and of course DRM and other shit

22:23:24 justJanne: mircea_popescu: yes?

22:23:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13150 @ 0.00027341 = 3.5953 BTC [-]

22:23:41 trinque: I'm not saying the browser isn't adding features; I'm saying it's aping the tired ways of a previous generation

22:23:44 mircea_popescu: you were ripping flash vids before your voice changed. wtf is this!

22:23:47 trinque: there's nothing "new" about html5

22:23:55 mircea_popescu: trinque other than the fact it works.

22:23:56 justJanne: of course not.

22:24:17 justJanne: although, there is something new

22:24:18 mircea_popescu: !rated copypaste

22:24:18 assbot: You rated user copypaste on 13-May-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Presumably, 8chan owner.

22:24:28 justJanne: people writing in-browser apps that don’t support linking

22:24:37 mircea_popescu: !rate copypaste 2 Confirmed for the ever-awesome HotWheels.

22:24:38 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/82ddd601d1ac8005

22:24:54 trinque: justJanne: points out the conflict between the web-as-document-store and web-as-app-things

22:25:01 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.copypaste.2:dd03f79f93681af647a8dddf4f7c2f32fd9dc2470a2bedda0f600cc1b5da14a7

22:25:01 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for copypaste from 1 to 2 with note: Confirmed for the ever-awesome HotWheels.

22:25:16 trinque: anyhow what are we addressing here. I was reminiscing about opennap servers

22:25:19 justJanne: trinque: one funny example: http://i.imgur.com/k9BZPhT.png

22:26:19 justJanne: (screenshot from DDG)

22:26:33 trinque: that looks like someone's stupid js data bindey thing fucked up

22:26:37 trinque: what am I looking for

22:26:49 justJanne: exactly

22:26:57 justJanne: JS webapps that do everything in-browser

22:27:07 justJanne: makes the job a lot harder for crawlers

22:27:17 trinque: I approve of you having independently discovered that this is a shit way to do things.

22:27:40 justJanne: when my crawler stopped working due to this,

22:27:53 trinque: subcategory of... JS is an appalling language and bolted to the DOM it's even worse

22:28:05 mircea_popescu: trinque i dunno dood, i love the select thing on fraudsters.

22:28:08 mircea_popescu: first time i ever used js.

22:28:18 justJanne: JS has some nice parts.

22:28:29 justJanne: like that it encourages them to use more functional code

22:28:29 adlai: justJanne: dunno, it seems obvious that if you want to crawl the luser-visible web, you simulate the luser, not curl

22:28:48 justJanne: adlai: yes, but in 2008 you could just curl the web and get it all

22:29:07 mircea_popescu: and in 2010 you could cpu mine

22:29:16 justJanne: in 2010 you could throw wget -r on the new york times and get, after a few weeks, half of the web.

22:29:36 mircea_popescu: more like a fifth, and if using slashdot.

22:29:36 justJanne: if your parents didn’t kill you for the dialup bill, though

22:29:45 trinque: mircea_popescu: I can't argue with HTML being a decent way of publishing articles; seems to have worked out pretty well

22:30:06 trinque: I do think many "web apps" of today would do better to be written as native code which just opens a socket for data

22:30:06 mircea_popescu: trinque the selector thing is specific js tho, and it does something not afaik doable in html per se

22:30:23 mircea_popescu: something that i want so badly, i would never give up

22:30:56 trinque: s/HTML/HTML+CSS+JS/

22:31:09 trinque: the conflict there is the same one as in SQL

22:31:13 trinque: "end user programming"

22:31:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.0002726 = 11.1221 BTC [-] {2}

22:31:26 trinque: so you've got one group of derps demanding the thing be "intuitive" to "those people"

22:31:40 trinque: and you've got other people trying to use the things as proper programming tools

22:32:04 justJanne: it’s not just limited to that.

22:32:07 trinque: the browser's a fine document thing and it should stop there before it hurts someone

22:32:16 justJanne: you might end up with governmental websites using JS for access control.

22:32:31 justJanne: and governments then passing laws that "circumventing client-side access control" becomes a crime

22:32:39 trinque: meh

22:32:42 trinque: prove I did it

22:32:55 trinque: I don't think anyone in government could form those sentences

22:33:00 mircea_popescu: you don't understand how the law works, trinque

22:33:05 trinque: it is *real*!!!

22:33:29 mircea_popescu: here's a simple explanation catering to you specifically : it's not a truth finding mechanism, it's a consensus building mechanism.

22:33:42 mircea_popescu: it's point is not to produce sicence, but to prevent people from clobbering each other.

22:33:44 mircea_popescu: geddit ?

22:33:50 justJanne: we’re talking here about a government where the chancellor has a PhD in Quantum Chemistry – obviously not stupid, but evil.

22:34:15 trinque: mircea_popescu: yes that makes sense re: law

22:34:30 mircea_popescu: so "prove i did it" has a very simple counter : if you weigh the same as a duck

22:34:32 mircea_popescu: you're made of wood

22:34:35 trinque: ahahaha

22:34:36 mircea_popescu: and therefore, my bitch!

22:35:03 trinque: of course; it's something I may run into or not, but I will not try to make sense of wooden ducks

22:35:20 mircea_popescu: best burn down any large scales of that kind.

22:35:29 trinque: justJanne: someone requires I use thing X as part of my browser, and that's the day I stop using browsers

22:35:36 justJanne: the law literally says "if you access an electronical data computation system unauthorized"

22:35:39 mircea_popescu: what, like you stopped using glibc ?

22:35:41 mircea_popescu: :D

22:35:42 justJanne: where authorized isn’t defined

22:36:07 mircea_popescu: justJanne blessfully, relatively few people live in that sort of shithole. speaking of which, do you have plans to escape ?

22:36:26 justJanne: nah. It’s good enough. And at least streaming illegal movies is legal here

22:36:36 mircea_popescu: heh.

22:36:38 *: trinque emits a parse error

22:36:43 trinque: mircea_popescu: and someday yes!

22:36:50 mircea_popescu: trinque see ? someday, sure.

22:37:08 *: justJanne read that as trinique.see() ? someday : sure

22:37:46 trinque: heh maybe if the last two terms are swapped

22:38:22 mircea_popescu: justJanne https://kuschku.de/frozen/royal-insignia-of-arendelle/ << you made this ?

22:39:22 justJanne: a friend did, but I collected them

22:39:22 justJanne: I didn’t draw them

22:39:22 mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/VSjAh04.png << ahaha epic

22:40:22 mircea_popescu: she draws just like a 19yo too.

22:40:22 justJanne: >_>

22:40:22 justJanne: I’m not good at it, k?

22:40:22 mircea_popescu: you're fine.

22:40:24 justJanne: I did sketch this, though: http://i.imgur.com/xCr9iTz.png

22:41:24 mircea_popescu: they do a trick, for frozen cgi, which is very hard to do by hand, where they fold her face in a particular moe pattern. amusingly enough - this is very similar to how pharma works, because it involves searching the space of possible facefolds for something that's not in the uncanny valley and works.

22:41:27 justJanne: I know, I spent 1 year in a dozen frozen fan chats

22:41:37 justJanne: I’ve seen the movie 13 times in cinema >_>

22:41:53 mircea_popescu: is it actually that good ?

22:42:00 mircea_popescu: what is it even, like rapunzel v2.0 ?

22:42:04 mod6: there's ~20 hours you'll never get back

22:42:22 mircea_popescu: dude let the woman have her childhood. i listened to fucking iron maiden!

22:42:28 justJanne: nah, spending one year in those chats, 24/7 is something I’ll never get back.

22:42:31 mod6: haha

22:42:31 trinque: what do you mean "listened"

22:42:48 mircea_popescu: lol. oh, i see, IM is ok, frozen isn't. k. brb.

22:43:35 mircea_popescu: http://www.metalinsider.net/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Iron-Maiden-Seventh-Son-Of-A-Seventh-Son-300x300.jpg << melted.

22:44:36 mircea_popescu: aaaand im now stuck with clairvoyant. well done internets o.O

22:47:12 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136872 << I used to collect flac albums like a decade ago -- surprised to hear it's even still a thing; let alone has official commercial backing

22:47:12 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 22:16:09; justJanne: ben_vulpes: still, compared to all those 9000$ expensive audio cables, or Beats headphones, lossless FLAC has an advantage over 128kbps mp3

22:47:37 trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB6JSmYcN2I << goddamn the shredding

22:48:37 justJanne: danielpbarron: it makes sense to have 1400kbps FLAC, as that’s CD quality

22:48:37 trinque: I like how youtube has every damn everything on it, and continues to exist

22:48:37 trinque: meanwhile grooveshark rots on a spike somewhere

22:48:45 trinque: danielpbarron: I once lost like 400gb of flacs

22:48:55 danielpbarron: oh I get the advantages to lossless; I even went out of my way to buy special hardware (fancy headphones and an iPhone-style device with custom firmware)

22:48:58 trinque: the tears

22:49:17 danielpbarron: yeah i lost all my flac files when i forgot i had them on a harddrive i used to make the RAID in my full node

22:49:20 danielpbarron: so it goes..

22:49:21 justJanne: danielpbarron: I have cheap Sennheiser HD 449 headphones and a normal phone, works well enough

22:49:26 trinque: lol yeah I formatted the drive too

22:49:34 trinque: to help some chick upgrade her OS

22:49:42 trinque: that was a lesson

22:49:58 *: kakobrekla still hangs on ~1500 flac albums

22:50:02 danielpbarron: i'm not into music enough to care about these things anymore

22:50:08 justJanne: for some years I had a script that wipes a random harddrive at a random time

22:50:13 justJanne: helps making sure backups work

22:50:16 trinque: man I need a good amount of raging out to metal per day

22:50:31 justJanne: though one day the script wiped the drive itself was on, never found it again

22:50:35 trinque: LOL

22:52:25 justJanne: <insert short rant about ALSA only allowing 44.1kHz and 16-bit audio here>

22:54:01 kakobrekla: speaking of flac and tidal; http://test.tidalhifi.com

22:57:06 mod6: ;;bc,stats

22:57:10 gribble: Current Blocks: 357052 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1795 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 13 hours, 15 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 49340718499.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.09252

22:57:22 jurov: ls -l

22:58:05 mod6: cannot access #bitcoin-assets: No such file or directory

22:58:49 mircea_popescu: sudo ls -l

23:00:01 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Victoria’s nature. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/05/18/victorias-nature/

23:01:01 justJanne: mkdir -p #bitcoin-assets && cat /dev/urandom | tr -dc a-zA-Z0-9 > #bitcoin-assets/random

23:01:01 mod6: haha

23:02:17 mircea_popescu: i take that as a personal insult!

23:03:41 mod6: asciilifeform: heh, now these 21 guys are saying they wanna make embeddable mining chips for smart phones. glwt. seeing as how they run out of power in like 9 minutes as it is.

23:03:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136366 << no mercenaries even this time ?

23:03:48 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 14:52:59; mats: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/world/middleeast/isis-ramadi-iraq.html Ramadi falls against IS

23:03:57 justJanne: mod6: power is not the issue.

23:03:58 justJanne: heat is.

23:04:16 mircea_popescu: mod6 the entire toaster miner thing was lulzy to begin with, but smartphone coronat opus.

23:04:19 justJanne: your phone will burn through your clothes. And then ignite everything around it, before becoming a blob of molten lava

23:04:33 mircea_popescu: justJanne sounds pretty cool. how much for one ?

23:04:58 justJanne: mircea_popescu: they aren’t for sale yet, but if you want to get a taste, you can buy an AMD GPU

23:05:19 mircea_popescu: heh. bitcoin ran on those for yers you know.

23:05:26 mircea_popescu: some guy even got brain damage from heat stroke

23:05:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136369 << or as we like to call this, "he got von flondored"

23:05:42 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 14:59:18; mats: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/5/16/former-egyptian-president-morsi-sentenced-to-death.html

23:06:09 mircea_popescu: !up btc

23:06:11 mircea_popescu: !up btcg

23:06:17 btcg: thanks

23:06:21 mircea_popescu: aha.

23:06:43 jurov: ben_vulpes: what was the problem with the overlay?

23:07:20 btcg: random question: what do you folks think of the proposed embedded mining from 21?

23:07:46 btcg: i wonder how they'll run a full node, i guess there's the ~1.2 gig pruned node

23:07:55 ben_vulpes: jurov: i don't think i actually understand how they're supposed to work.

23:08:33 btcg: i saw mod6's comment how would a phone support a full node

23:08:39 mats: mircea_popescu: wait six months i guess

23:08:39 ben_vulpes: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Overlay/Local_overlay << i followed this and a few other guides, but failed to get anything that looked like it would let me hack on the diehard source

23:09:39 danielpbarron: btcg, chip doesn't need full node to mine; all chips probably phone home to central node for the next header to work on

23:09:39 trinque: ben_vulpes: if you want to hack best just stick the source in your home directory

23:09:39 mircea_popescu: mats curious if egypt actually goes the way of turkey or mopre like syria

23:09:39 trinque: making an ebuild is more along the lines of packaging up your thing and shipping it

23:09:39 jurov: ben_vulpes: what failed?

23:09:39 mircea_popescu: btcg that it's ridiculous.

23:09:45 btcg: ahh, like electrum heh

23:09:48 trinque: there are a few magical files that need to be inside /usr/local/portage or wherever the overlay may be

23:09:53 mircea_popescu: no. like a fuckable fridge.

23:10:03 mircea_popescu: even admitting you could make this, who in his right mind wants to fuck the food storebox.

23:10:27 jurov: ben_vulpes: but yes, hacking on the source is best in your homedir. only after it compiles there, feed to portage

23:10:52 trinque: mircea_popescu: there's an (american?) phenomenon there where innovating means crapping together however many things that already existed, and calling it something new

23:10:53 mircea_popescu: anyone made homeless linux yet ? where you DON'T get a home dir ?

23:11:01 mircea_popescu: trinque you don't say.

23:11:09 mircea_popescu: "it's like x but for y" ?

23:11:12 jurov: export ROOT=/dev/null

23:11:37 btcg: i was hoping a water heater that pays for itself, by using miner heat, but embeddable chip, if their centralized servers have issue, eeek

23:11:41 trinque: mircea_popescu: seems like what happens to the imitators when there's nothing good to imitate

23:11:56 trinque: re-feeds on itself for a few cycles and there's nothing left

23:12:07 jurov: btcg: if you can synthsize it from ECL chips, no prob

23:12:08 trinque: uber for facebooks

23:12:12 mircea_popescu: btcg you seen the log discussion on this topic ?

23:12:17 ben_vulpes: jurov: more or less getting `emerge` to work with my sources. but...

23:12:23 btcg: ahh, i'll read it thanks

23:12:30 ben_vulpes: <jurov> ben_vulpes: but yes, hacking on the source is best in your homedir. only after it compiles there, feed to portage << this first

23:12:45 btcg: i usually just read it at leisure decided to jump in here

23:12:51 mircea_popescu: btcg do two things. read http://fraudsters.com/2013/youre-gonna-have-to-learn-that-variety-speak/ and then read http://log.bitcoin-assets.com

23:14:52 mircea_popescu: aha.

23:14:52 trinque: ben_vulpes: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Overlay#Manually_setting_overlay_locations << gotta put some files places and configure make.conf

23:15:52 ben_vulpes: blee i did

23:15:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-05-2015#1127543 < fpr instance.

23:15:52 assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 23:16:02; mircea_popescu: toaster is kinda dumb, but ceramic tiles for warm floor is worth doing.

23:15:52 ben_vulpes: also i read ELSEWHERE on the gentoo wiki that PORTDIR_OVERLAY is deprecated

23:15:52 jurov: btcg: and if it is not only gentoo problem, you can skip portage and go annoy upstream

23:15:52 ben_vulpes: so i don't know mang

23:15:52 trinque: deprecated for what

23:15:52 justJanne: trinque: that is very much true @ the apple-strategy argument

23:15:52 mats: mircea_popescu: i'm inclined to believe egypt will follow syria

23:15:52 mircea_popescu: seems safe bet.

23:15:52 trinque: ben_vulpes: god damn it; I smell shitgnoes

23:15:52 trinque: *gnomes

23:15:52 trinque: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Portage/Sync << they're adding "plugins"

23:16:52 ben_vulpes: nigga iono

23:16:52 trinque: fuck it all; everyone has to bolt a dick massager to everything

23:16:52 ben_vulpes: some "overlay for morons" gentoo wiki page

23:16:52 btcg: jurov apologies i am not on gentoo sir

23:16:52 ben_vulpes: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Overlay/Local_overlay << "Note: The old method of setting the 'PORTDIR_OVERLAY' variable in make.conf is deprecated and should not be used."

23:17:52 jurov: btcg sry it was to ben

23:17:52 mircea_popescu: trinque:--std=c99 kicks on __STRICT_ANSI__ which affects whether __USE_MISC is defined in features.h << such a great explanation of wtf is wrong with all this shit.

23:17:52 trinque: justJanne: it's the whole socialist world's strategy

23:17:52 trinque: with scare quotes

23:17:52 trinque: best stated by mircea_popescu re: reproduce until there isn't anything extra, then divide it all until dead

23:17:52 mircea_popescu: naggum.

23:17:52 justJanne: trinque: it makes me especially angry when this is combined with programmers who call themselves "engineers", but whose products stop working after just a decade

23:17:52 trinque: ah that was his?

23:17:52 mircea_popescu: yup.

23:17:52 mircea_popescu: fwiw, i happen to believe it is actually the correct strategy,

23:17:52 mircea_popescu: just, correct from a game theoretic perspective of genetics, not of individual humans.

23:17:52 trinque: it's what animal populations do right? boom and bust

23:17:52 trinque: justJanne: the problem there is economic; why give a shit what happens next year? we'll all be dead

23:18:07 justJanne: trinque: that’s one issue, sadly.

23:18:13 justJanne: in the past years, technology got worse

23:18:36 justJanne: microwave from 1980 still works, TV from '96 as well, PC from '98 is still in use.

23:18:40 justJanne: but phone from 2007 is EOL

23:18:51 mircea_popescu: actually, glengarry moss had that one right : http://fraudsters.com/2014/weak-sauce/#selection-765.0-767.186

23:22:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1136459 << i agree, this is one of the better derivative works to be had on the basis of the phuctor results.

23:22:24 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 18:57:06; Apocalyptic: (the full factoring is interesting because it's the only way to compute the private exponent d)

23:22:30 ben_vulpes: <justJanne> your phone will burn through your clothes. And then ignite everything around it, before becoming a blob of molten lava << israelis came up with this one iirc

23:22:39 mircea_popescu: fully investigate the keys in question, cornerstone of which is, get d.

23:25:05 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard holy shiot wtf is that.

23:26:38 mircea_popescu: !up ko__

23:28:55 trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/18/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-idUSKBN0O20M020150518 "U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said it was a "target of opportunity," that could be retaken in a matter of days, and U.S. officials insisted there would be no change in strategy despite a failure to make major advances against Islamic State."

23:29:55 trinque: does seem like if anything coherent is intended at all, it's to provoke a larger regional war

23:30:29 trinque: oh the irony that would be if someday the middle east is united in its hatred for the united states

23:30:33 mircea_popescu: such vietnam

23:32:54 mircea_popescu: to streamline administration ~~~and deregulate power to lower levels~~~

23:33:02 mircea_popescu: china will be un-fucking-stoppable.

23:34:32 trinque: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-05/18/c_134248403.htm << that'n eh?

23:35:32 trinque: sounds like they're going to put the fork in the dollar

23:35:39 mircea_popescu: if they implement even halfway...

23:37:55 justJanne: meh.

23:38:14 justJanne: the US is financing the saudi’s, who sell ISIS weapons, so technically the US is financing ISIS anyway

23:38:39 trinque: I think the Saudi's deserve some credit for the swindle there

23:38:50 mircea_popescu: "your dad brought you clothes, which you traded for drugs, so technically your dad bought you drugs"

23:39:15 justJanne: if the dad still gives you clothes, even though he knows what you’re doing...

23:39:43 justJanne: and the US is also selling weapons to the saudis directly, which they sold directly to ISIS

23:42:28 trinque: probably some faction of bastards in the US is actually aware of this, and others are not

23:42:55 trinque: there's not one coherent "they" to consider in regards to the country

23:43:08 justJanne: yeah, it’s not something the population can do anything against. it’s just inevitable with 2 parties that are both quite corrupt

23:43:25 justJanne: not that Germany would be better, with people like Gerhard Schröder >_>

23:44:05 mircea_popescu: is he bad ?

23:45:25 justJanne: He was a German chancellor in the social democrats party who reduced welfare spending, removed any kind of minimum wage ideas, added laws for some businesses, and changed several laws so that Gazprom could build a pipeline.

23:45:41 justJanne: the day after his time as chancellor ended, he got a job at Gazprom

23:45:57 justJanne: this guy betrayed everyone who voted for thim, and the rest of Germany, too

23:45:58 mircea_popescu: seems like they're all splendid ideas ?

23:46:40 justJanne: nope. Reducing unemployment money, removing minimum wage, etc is definitely not "good"

23:46:45 mircea_popescu: why not ?

23:46:59 justJanne: because everyone should have equal chances

23:47:05 mircea_popescu: why ?

23:47:16 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-05-2015#1137062 lmao i have only now noticed

23:47:16 assbot: Logged on 18-05-2015 22:57:22; jurov: ls -l

23:47:21 justJanne: because no one should have a disadvantage from choices they didn’t make.

23:47:27 mircea_popescu: so ?

23:47:36 justJanne: just because your parents are poor doesn’t mean you should have worse chances in life

23:47:42 mircea_popescu: why not ?

23:47:49 justJanne: because you aren’t responsible

23:48:11 mircea_popescu: of course you are. you work hard and save to give your kids a better chance.

23:48:15 justJanne: do you want to punish people for stuff they didn’t do, choices they didn’t make?

23:48:23 mircea_popescu: you don't expect every kids have equal chances, because that removes any incentive for you to do anything.

23:48:26 mircea_popescu: just float around.

23:48:31 justJanne: no, it doesn’t.

23:48:39 justJanne: nowadays we have basic income here even.

23:48:42 justJanne: people still work.

23:48:42 mircea_popescu: i punish people for what they are rather than what they want to be all the time.

23:48:50 mircea_popescu: heck, my whole life's built around this principle.

23:48:59 justJanne: then you might want to rethink your life.

23:49:06 mircea_popescu: one of us, at any rate.

23:49:26 justJanne: let’s say it like this, not even the literal nazis had such a right-wing idea about society. And they are nazis.

23:49:37 mircea_popescu: i know.

23:49:48 mircea_popescu: admittedly, i'm more like a 1700s mind.

23:49:56 justJanne: anyway, it works here.

23:50:02 mircea_popescu: to me, the difference between soviets and nazis is nil : both were socialists.

23:50:23 mircea_popescu: no, it doesn't. that's the fallacy of "we can't compare to any alternatives, as thery don't exist - so it works fine!!1"

23:50:26 mircea_popescu: ever read candide ?

23:50:29 justJanne: like 90% of all firemen here, for example, work for free. volunteers. No pay, nothing. They risk their lives for nothing, while still having a normal job at the same time.

23:50:52 trinque: why should they not be paid for dangerous work?

23:51:02 justJanne: because they are volunteers.

23:51:04 mircea_popescu: moreover, why is some people's preference a basis for law ?

23:51:14 mircea_popescu: let those firemen do whatever the fuck they please and pay me.

23:51:18 justJanne: the idea is: if society is well enough,

23:51:24 justJanne: then people will work literally for free,

23:51:29 mircea_popescu: society is about as meaningful a concept as baby jesus.

23:51:29 justJanne: just to provide a benefit for everyone

23:51:44 mircea_popescu: and yes, people behave stupidly all the time

23:51:48 mircea_popescu: this is no valid argument.

23:51:49 justJanne: it’s not stupid.

23:51:53 mircea_popescu: says who ?

23:52:22 justJanne: everyone?

23:52:27 mircea_popescu: apparently not.

23:52:39 justJanne: obviously it works well in the countries with the highest standard of living –

23:52:46 mircea_popescu: (and here we go again, The Narrative is fragile)

23:52:47 justJanne: all across scandinavia and central europe

23:52:55 mircea_popescu: no, it works absolutely nowhere.

23:53:07 mircea_popescu: just, some people are momentarily insulated from the effects of their stupidity.

23:53:18 justJanne: No.

23:53:21 mircea_popescu: just like - unprotected sex works fine "in those places where syplhilis hasn't appeared yet".

23:53:30 mircea_popescu: sure. won't last. by the very nature of what unprotected sex is, it won't last.

23:53:32 justJanne: that’s not the thing.

23:53:44 justJanne: this system of society has lasted for centuries

23:53:55 mircea_popescu: nope. it's barely five decades old, and already cracking.

23:53:56 justJanne: the volunteering fire brigade system has existed since the 1400s

23:54:04 mircea_popescu: ah, that. again : let those firemen do whatever the fuck they please and pay me.

23:54:26 justJanne: the consumer cooperatives operating non-profit chains of grocery stores have also existed since the 1800s

23:54:48 mircea_popescu: and necrophillic pedophillia has existed since 50`000 years ago.

23:54:52 mircea_popescu: so what of it ?

23:55:15 justJanne: It’s obviously more stable than the economical system plagued of bubble bursts that is existing at Wall Street nowadays

23:55:33 mircea_popescu: the system you discuss IS the other system you discuss.

23:55:40 mircea_popescu: there's no difference there, just a meaningless distinction.

23:55:42 justJanne: no.

23:56:19 mircea_popescu: well, if you manage to survive emotionally, your stay in #b-a is bound to be instructive.

23:56:25 justJanne: the first system I discuss in scandinavia or central europe is a place where 60% of the companies have existed for centuries, have long term neither profit nor losses, and no growth

23:56:40 justJanne: which isn’t really necessary

23:56:48 justJanne: tbh, it’s the only really sustainable way

23:57:34 trinque: sounds like an environment where it'd be difficult to get anything new started

23:57:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53750 @ 0.00027982 = 15.0403 BTC [+] {2}

23:57:54 justJanne: not really. There are many startups here, actually.

23:58:16 justJanne: the thing is that most of these don’t aim for a huge profit,

23:58:30 justJanne: but aim for slow growth and a sustainable profit.

23:58:39 trinque: oh youngin

23:59:04 justJanne: yes, that actually works.

23:59:18 justJanne: you don’t need to aim for 1 billion users with your 5 people startup to be sustainable

23:59:26 trinque: you'll get no argument from me on that

23:59:37 trinque: but that is not tantamount to saying "therefore social democracy"

23:59:41 trinque: not even close

23:59:47 justJanne: ofc nto.

23:59:48 justJanne: not

23:59:54 justJanne: we are at a completely different point now

23:59:58 justJanne: sadly.