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Transcript for 19-03-2014, 3259 lines:

00:03:16 novusordo: !help

00:03:16 assbot: List of commands:

00:03:17 assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !t}

00:03:18 assbot: !last <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns last price value, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !l}

00:03:19 assbot: !mp <signcrypted dpaste.com url> (desc: returns the response from MPEX order)

00:03:20 assbot: !rules <nick/chan> (desc: chan guidelines) {short: !r}

00:03:21 assbot: !exchanges <nick/chan> (desc: lists exchanges and brokers) {short: !e}

00:03:22 assbot: !jd (desc: returns relevant stats from https://just-dice.com)

00:03:23 assbot: !bash <lines> (desc: bashes last <lines> lines to bash) {short: !b}

00:03:24 assbot: !quote <lines> (desc: quotes last <lines> lines and returns dpaste url) {short: !q}

00:05:25 novusordo: !ticker HAVELOCK AM1

00:05:40 assbot: I don't give a shit who saw what and who did what or who did who.

00:06:01 novusordo: me either, assbot

00:10:24 bitcoinpte: ;;later tell benkay haha I just noticed your excellent use of "Bin Popescu"! You also made me realize that it should've been "ben" (also note the lowercase "b", eg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_ben_Johanan). Also, I'm really hoping that MP being "the hardest target in Bitcoin" is the sexual euphemism I think it is. Lastly, given your iOS cryptoproject, what are your thoughts on Glyph?

00:10:24 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:10:53 benkay: bitcoinpte: that would be the dick joke i mentioned last night, yes.

00:11:30 bitcoinpte: ;;later tell BingoBoingo looks like you forgot to add "http://" to the URL linking my SEC post from yours :)

00:11:30 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:11:39 bitcoinpte: benkay: snappy

00:12:06 benkay: bitcoinpte: i'm lo these many years out of the synagogue, so thanks for the correction. i'll ship it with some other updates.

00:12:24 benkay: bitcoinpete: finally, glyph is a scam. they store your messages in plaintext on their servers.

00:12:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]

00:12:57 benkay: i demonstrated this to the team accidentally a few months back, when logging into the web console to see messages we sent each other from our phones.

00:13:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07 = 0.28 BTC [-]

00:14:19 benkay: glyph is classic fartup circus nonsense. apple's taken a firm stance on bitcoin+iOS, and Glyph doesn't have the horsepower to fight them. note: social media noise != canonry.

00:17:13 bitcoinpete: benkay: ya, they definitely made a fuss and not much else. glyph's whole implementation lacks appeal. "Drop me a line at horse-moon-cloverleaf" doesn't reach catch people

00:19:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00424994 = 0.85 BTC [-] {2}

00:23:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0666 = 0.2664 BTC [-]

00:25:51 bitcoinpete: benkay: https://twitter.com/bitcoinpete/status/445773577564860416

00:26:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.06811111 = 1.3622 BTC [-] {3}

00:27:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.05389818 = 0.5929 BTC [+] {2}

00:28:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05399933 = 0.486 BTC [+] {4}

00:28:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00424994 = 0.425 BTC [-]

00:29:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.00424994 = 0.5865 BTC [-]

00:31:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 147 @ 0.00424994 = 0.6247 BTC [-]

00:32:50 benkay: thanks, bitcoinpete!

00:32:58 benkay: i don't play twitter myself, but it's neat to see links up there.

00:33:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [+]

00:34:07 bitcoinpete: benkay: what can i say? it was a great quote. and one that i would've vehemently opposed 3 months ago.

00:34:17 bitcoinpete: time, she keeps tickin'

00:36:25 bitcoinpete: i'm off for a bit of sport, then book clubbin' (antifragile, somehow people haven't read it) cheers

00:38:53 benkay: ha well in retrospect it should have been "stupidest goddamn".

00:39:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 22 @ 0.01600001 = 0.352 BTC [-] {3}

00:45:32 benkay: oh my sides

00:45:57 benkay: today a project manager spinning up a new frontend contractor asked "hey how do we import this vm into vagrant without smashing the frontend dev's existing precise64 image?"

00:46:13 benkay: "dear pm. please see the detailed instructions i sent you yesterday. yours, etc"

00:54:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 73 @ 0.00432983 = 0.3161 BTC [+] {2}

00:56:44 dexX7: http://fraudsters.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/ yes! :D

00:56:45 ozbot: Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

00:59:05 benkay: hey, assettes: how would you phrase a bitbet to revolve on Blockchain's solvency?

00:59:15 benkay: or whatever the equivalent term for a bitcoin wallet operator is?

00:59:35 bloctoc: Warren Buffet doesn't want to end up with 1,000 sub $650 Bitcoins. Is there a place to borrow 1000 BTC? Assuming his WOT is legit?

00:59:44 dexX7: hm. but blockchain.info doesn't hold any btcs?

01:00:11 ninjashogun: hi

01:00:54 ninjashogun: so, the doge financier person's loan fell through. what a waste of several weeks of exchanges with him.

01:01:26 bloctoc: benkay that's genius. the phrase "liquidity event resulting customer loss of funds" might work

01:01:59 jcpham: ^ sounds legit

01:06:25 Mats_cd03: Borrow? Uhh...no. He would hedge his position, and mpoe is the place for it, incidentally.

01:06:52 mike_c: ;;bc,stats

01:06:54 gribble: Current Blocks: 291222 | Current Difficulty: 4.2502179198695354E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 292319 | Next Difficulty In: 1097 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 22 hours, 4 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 4625267960.62 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.82425

01:08:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00080457 = 19.9936 BTC [-] {2}

01:12:18 bloctoc: Mats_cd03 thanks. So, Warren would buy some bitcoins, take the bet, and buy puts?

01:14:30 Mats_cd03: That would be ideal, although he could hedge some other way with fiat, too

01:24:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00080505 = 17.0671 BTC [+]

01:29:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how is it that herr orloff is using the terminology of the russian propaganda, you figure ?

01:32:38 benkay: bloctoc, Mats_cd03: can't quite hedge on MPEx anymore.

01:33:49 mircea_popescu: wow ze bc.info still down ?!

01:33:51 bloctoc: futures, still right? I was trying to think of a way to play the 30/1000 odds on this bet, but then got distracted.

01:34:06 ninjashogun: jcpham, I'm oin to sleep soon

01:34:21 ninjashogun: jcpham, if you have any thouhts I'd be interested.

01:34:30 ninjashogun: going*

01:34:35 benkay: bloctoc, the challenge is in the proving these things to the bitbet mods, and coming up with criteria that satisfy their standards.

01:35:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00080505 = 15.0544 BTC [+]

01:36:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13026 @ 0.00080745 = 10.5178 BTC [+]

01:36:27 mircea_popescu: blackwhite what is "a site based on bitcoin data" mean ?

01:37:12 blackwhite: it means like http://blockchain.info/

01:37:24 mircea_popescu: so like a blockchain walker ?

01:37:40 mircea_popescu: there's 3-4 of those, but you never know when they croak, so.

01:37:46 mircea_popescu: trivial to get the data for it, just run a node.

01:38:40 blackwhite: yeah true

01:38:56 mircea_popescu: if you comprehend go the best solution i'd say is the package maintained by conformal

01:39:05 KRS-1: .bait

01:39:06 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7y47wXuak1r88sa4o1_1280.jpg

01:39:26 mircea_popescu: but if you're a minimum effort sort of guy even a bitcoind can work, you can directly query it from any software stack. python, php, whatever you run

01:41:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 288 @ 0.00424994 = 1.224 BTC [-]

01:41:24 mircea_popescu: nubbins` dudes why so aggro

01:41:26 blackwhite: thanks. I was considering getting a proper solution. I will look into conformal. My strength is in design (I can code but I am primarily a designer)

01:41:48 mircea_popescu: well don't end up running something you don't understand.

01:41:52 bloctoc: thanks benkay. So, I'm looking at S.EUR as... WTF is S.EUR?

01:42:03 mircea_popescu: https://github.com/conformal/btcd <

01:42:06 benkay: http://toughmudder.com/sites/default/files/styles/lightboxed/public/Tough-Mudder-Toronto-2013-Sat-Gudkov-1334_0.jpg

01:42:09 blackwhite: sure. I have enough developer friends that will keep me in place

01:42:10 benkay: bloctoc: x.eur

01:42:11 blackwhite: :)

01:42:12 mircea_popescu: bloctoc not x.eur ?

01:42:12 bloctoc: anyone can answer

01:42:37 benkay: not quite the leverage of options, you know?

01:42:44 bloctoc: yeah, sorry x.eur

01:42:46 mircea_popescu: blackwhite https://github.com/conformal/btcd

01:42:50 benkay: http://toughmudder.com/sites/default/files/styles/lightboxed/public/TM_Charlotte_Sat_WestonWalker-1231_0.jpg

01:42:54 mircea_popescu: bloctoc but it has a contract if you click it.

01:43:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: terminology of the russian propaganda << more specifically ?

01:43:06 benkay: http://toughmudder.com/sites/default/files/styles/lightboxed/public/TM_SanDiego_Sun_WestonWalker-36_0.jpg

01:43:08 bloctoc: I'm afraid virus if I click

01:43:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "in refusing to acquiesce to the installation of a neo-fascist regime in Kiev"

01:43:52 mircea_popescu: bloctoc mpex doesn't even use javascript what are you on about

01:44:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the people in question aren't really shy of their nazi 'fandom'

01:44:18 asciilifeform: check out their own sites

01:44:23 blackwhite: yup got it thanks.

01:44:58 bloctoc: actually, I had already clicked, but I don't understand the contract. I was trying to blame my inadequacy completely fabricated internet security problems.

01:44:58 mircea_popescu: well sure, but it's still a stretch

01:45:15 mircea_popescu: bloctoc ok, so what don't you understand ?

01:46:01 asciilifeform: i mean, what is one supposed to call folks chanting 'смерть жидам' and marching with Galician SS banners?

01:46:07 mircea_popescu: "idiots" works

01:46:16 mircea_popescu: it's purely a problem of terminology, see ?

01:47:10 asciilifeform: idiots of a particular rare variety, which survived in a curious 'nature preserve' for quite some time

01:47:17 mircea_popescu: as far as i recall the nazis raped ukraine pretty good, the notion someone there actually is much of a nazi is ridicxulous on its face to begin with.

01:47:31 mircea_popescu: right wing, i guess, "socialistically-challenged", whatever.

01:47:38 asciilifeform: if a zoologist were to speak of a lion, he wouldn't merely say 'panthera'

01:47:54 mircea_popescu: but those dudes aren't "nazis" in that sense.

01:48:13 mircea_popescu: they're more akin to the aryan union, actually.

01:48:28 mircea_popescu: heck, they're probably inspired by the aryan union.

01:49:06 asciilifeform: correct. except, with some non-negligible historical continuity with the actual nazis, which the american version lacks

01:49:34 asciilifeform: read their own turds, where the wankers proclaim 'i wanna finish what grandpa started'

01:49:37 mircea_popescu: which... you know, has to to with nazism about as much as mice and men with martin short and steven segall has to do with french impresionism

01:49:55 mircea_popescu: yeah yeah, but you know and i know it's entirely empty posturing.

01:50:12 mircea_popescu: what did his granpa start ? a kolhoz ?

01:50:22 asciilifeform: what would be needed for non-emptiness? a resurrected hitler?

01:50:35 mircea_popescu: for instance, a rejection of ukrainians as lower stock ?

01:50:52 mircea_popescu: an actual nazi party in the ukraine would be quite the schopenhauerian feat.

01:51:22 asciilifeform: but, what would be needed for it to qualify as a proper nazi party? merely the brand and logo?

01:51:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00424994 = 0.2125 BTC [-]

01:52:04 mircea_popescu: no, as i say. it can't be a proper nazi party for as long as it seriously contemplates accepting any ukrainian national in its ranks.

01:52:17 mircea_popescu: it's like telling me you could have a grandee armee in coventry.

01:52:27 mircea_popescu: no, you fucking can't, the french would have never taken any brits, ever, no matter what.

01:52:32 asciilifeform: ;;google galician ss

01:52:32 gribble: 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian) - Wikipedia ...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Ukrainian); 'Galicia' Division - Justice for Germans: http://justice4germans.com/2013/08/23/ukrainians-honour-the-service-and-sacrifices-of-the-waffen-ss-galicia-division/; What's On Kiev | News | The Infamous Ukrainian Waffen SS (1 more message)

01:53:08 mircea_popescu: wasn't that mostly from like slovakia/bohjemia etc ?

01:53:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48255 @ 0.000802 = 38.7005 BTC [-] {5}

01:53:28 asciilifeform: ;;google stepan bandera

01:53:28 gribble: Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera; Ukraine's Neo-Nazis. Stepan Bandera and the Legacy of World War ...: http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraines-neo-nazis-stepan-bandera-and-the-legacy-of-world-war-ii/5373773?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ukraines-neo-nazis-stepan-bandera-and-the-legacy-of-world-war-ii; (1 more message)

01:53:40 mircea_popescu: o wait, this is the glatz.

01:53:42 asciilifeform: this fellow is their ultimate hero.

01:53:50 mircea_popescu: supposedly a german land since fredrich.

01:54:02 mircea_popescu: listen, srsly, galicia doesn't count in this discussion.

01:54:04 asciilifeform: (not a russian fiction, but straight from the horse's mouth)

01:54:44 mircea_popescu: right. the equivalent of romania's iron guard's codreanu idjit.

01:54:48 mircea_popescu: but that's still not nazi.

01:55:12 asciilifeform: you're quite right that the actual, historic nazis are gone.

01:55:20 asciilifeform: what's left is... well, this.

01:55:39 mircea_popescu: and anyway! death to the jews ?

01:55:54 mircea_popescu: why aren't these qualifications for "loyal subjects of the king of aragon" ?

01:56:00 mircea_popescu: or for caterine de medicis ?

01:56:07 asciilifeform: this isn't even the interesting part about the west ua folks

01:56:23 mircea_popescu: "death to the jews" is, at least in europe, about as common as "open your legs, i'm not gonna do anything"

01:56:26 asciilifeform: what they want isn't to be merely left alone to run their historical (province of poland, really) agrarian pesthole

01:56:53 asciilifeform: they'd like to dominate the historically rus. west, and own the soviet-built factories which they had no part in creating

01:57:03 mircea_popescu: so that makes them neo nazis ?!

01:57:10 asciilifeform: mostly to saw into scrap and sell to the nato block

01:57:42 mircea_popescu: i mean understand me, i am not proposing that either side or party or w/e active entity there is either respectable or in the right.

01:58:08 mircea_popescu: im merely saying that the neonazi label is about as approximative as calling them "knights of the cuisinart", or freemasons.

01:58:11 asciilifeform: nah, marching around in ss garb makes them. you gotta appreciate how this makes them an almost physiological allergen to anyone who grew up even vaguely russian.

01:58:36 mircea_popescu: and inasmuch as this is the case, which exact label one picks serves as a group identification. if you use the russian propaganda terminology you basically are throwing up a flag and little more.

01:58:53 mircea_popescu: ah, cause the "great patriotic war" stuff ?

01:59:47 mircea_popescu: "Unlike competing Polish, Russian, Hungarian or Romanian nationalisms in late imperial Austria, imperial Russia, interwar Poland and Romania, Ukrainian nationalism did not include antisemitism as a core aspect of its program and saw Russians as well as Poles as the chief enemy with Jews playing a secondary role." lmao.

01:59:53 mircea_popescu: shithole didn't even have jews in the first place.

02:00:47 asciilifeform: who did the jerries plug at babi yar? martians?

02:01:20 mircea_popescu: hm this is a point.

02:01:29 mircea_popescu: so then what, were the jews in ukraine mostly settled farmers ?

02:01:34 mircea_popescu: o yes, because beyond the pale huh

02:01:44 asciilifeform: smallholders, petty merchants

02:02:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 282 @ 0.0043109 = 1.2157 BTC [+] {5}

02:04:06 asciilifeform: people who apply 'human morality' to the logic of empire are weird.

02:04:39 asciilifeform: from the standpoint of americans, it is a beautiful thing if poland, ua, baltics, etc. are stuffed with as many missile bases as physically fit, aimed at moscow

02:04:52 asciilifeform: from the standpoint of russia, not so beautiful

02:05:14 mircea_popescu: well sure.

02:06:02 asciilifeform: likewise, americans ought to - and will - dance in the streets if the port at sevastopol is conquered and the russian fleet can no longer interfere with the u.s. syrian demolition derby

02:06:13 mircea_popescu: but listen, had orlov called them "privileged male chauvinist pigs" i'd have went "whoa, when did this guy join the blue side"

02:06:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00611787 = 0.3671 BTC [-]

02:06:48 mircea_popescu: there's approximately 0% chances of sevastopol falling this year.

02:06:54 asciilifeform: sure.

02:06:59 bloctoc: for the logs, I will be changing my handle to tacostorm soon

02:07:02 mircea_popescu: well that's it, by then syria's done.

02:08:57 asciilifeform: orlov's position, as far as i can tell, is that u.s. inherited the crown of idiocy worn by the old ussr

02:09:09 asciilifeform: and that anyone who interferes with it's doings, for whatever purpose, is to be applauded

02:10:09 mircea_popescu: but in what terms ?

02:10:15 mircea_popescu: that's always been the question of the independent thinker,

02:10:21 mircea_popescu: as hamlet plainly states.

02:11:14 asciilifeform: it is not easy to describe, accurately and completely, the nato block's policy of nation-wrecking using something other than 'russian' terms. but you're welcome to try.

02:11:37 asciilifeform: i, for one, would like to read the result.

02:11:42 mircea_popescu: but calling people "neonazis" describes nothing, and especially not accurately or completely.

02:11:49 mircea_popescu: in fact, pretty much anything else would work better.

02:12:20 asciilifeform: it isn't orlov's (or putin's) fault that the west ua folks insist on becoming something out of a comic book

02:12:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0043299 = 0.2165 BTC [+]

02:12:47 asciilifeform: omitting the 'nazi' would be quite like, were they to wear clown suits while doing their thing, to omit mention of said suits.

02:12:51 mircea_popescu: well, nationalist movements in the 21st century. it's gonna be pretty comedic.

02:13:07 ThickAsThieves: BitBet in WSJ! http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/03/18/bitbeat-bitcoin-gets-shakespearean/

02:13:17 mircea_popescu: bitbeat ?!

02:13:27 mircea_popescu: whi not just call it beatit

02:13:47 ThickAsThieves: like idiots they link to BRK-B of course

02:14:23 mircea_popescu: "Not too many takers so far: of the 100 confirmed bets, 88 are betting on Uncle Warren. Only 12 have taken the bitcoin side of the bet. (Paul Vigna)"

02:14:29 Duffer1: the oracle of "Ohama"

02:14:30 mircea_popescu: dude this totally matters :D

02:14:38 mircea_popescu: ahaha this is so awful.

02:14:43 ThickAsThieves: I'm one of the 12 apostles!

02:14:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.00429057 = 0.3647 BTC [-] {4}

02:14:58 mircea_popescu: hey. i guess that finally makes me baby jesus on a stick ?

02:15:05 ThickAsThieves: I'm the first

02:15:08 ThickAsThieves: apostle

02:15:39 mircea_popescu: thickaspaul ?

02:16:12 ThickAsThieves: John, of course

02:16:33 Duffer1: lol no mention of the size of the yes bets...

02:16:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, in sum, you're saying he's just whatever, too tired to even invent a name for the idiots so he's going with neo nazi ?

02:16:51 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 every vote cunts.

02:17:11 asciilifeform: actually there is a beautiful russian name widely in use now

02:17:21 asciilifeform: 'майдауны'

02:17:49 asciilifeform: from 'майдан' (the ua square where the 'demonstration' was) and 'даун' (down's syndrome)

02:18:01 Duffer1: yes has 1007 votes, no has 31 votes

02:18:09 ThickAsThieves: I'll be there for your crucifixion, and there when no apostles are left

02:18:15 asciilifeform: mr. o's problem, as it often is, is that he blogs in english.

02:18:16 mircea_popescu: haha maidanik ?

02:18:21 ThickAsThieves: this is my gospel

02:18:31 mircea_popescu: maidownik

02:18:37 asciilifeform: yeah something like that

02:18:59 mircea_popescu: see, if he had called them maidowniks i'd have been in awe of his fucking expressivity

02:19:07 mircea_popescu: five hours later, when i'd have finally figured it

02:19:22 asciilifeform: as always, when using a technical pidgin like english, everybody loses something.

02:19:35 mircea_popescu: it can be made to work

02:19:39 asciilifeform: yes.

02:19:44 mircea_popescu: it just needs to be beaten black and blue and then fucked raw.

02:19:50 asciilifeform: i personally have attempted, on occasion, to make it go.

02:19:57 mircea_popescu: why do you think he was called "shake spear"

02:20:05 asciilifeform: lol

02:21:23 Shakespeare: He's rounding up the watch of his wit, by and by it will strike.

02:21:32 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/e33c8c5a1f69d16ced64d311a6a1799e/tumblr_n1mkz5iqKf1qk2vvro1_500.jpg

02:21:40 Shakespeare: winding up*

02:21:40 mircea_popescu: this needs a repost. those perfect butts omg.

02:21:57 mircea_popescu: Proof of Work.

02:22:11 Shakespeare: did you see that ad i linked to with the girl jiggling her butt?

02:22:17 Shakespeare: a few days ago

02:22:23 Shakespeare: so addictive for some reason

02:22:23 mircea_popescu: prolly not

02:22:40 Shakespeare: http://e1.static.hoptopboy.com/11793/21029/116669/11793B/160x600-USA_1390254805.gif

02:23:41 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: fuck this life, for one night you dont suck a dick and suddenly you are not a ho anymo' ? <<< bwahaha

02:24:06 mircea_popescu: dude srsly ?

02:24:10 mircea_popescu: you can not be my apostle anymore.

02:24:18 mircea_popescu: that's like the third most overused gif on the internet.

02:24:29 Shakespeare: fuck you i love it

02:24:42 Shakespeare: no matter how used she is

02:24:48 Shakespeare: i enjoy her swagger

02:24:53 mircea_popescu: do you even wank ?

02:25:00 Shakespeare: not to that

02:25:01 asciilifeform: and then it comes out that the grl cheated with electrodes. (suppose.)

02:25:06 Shakespeare: i just like it

02:25:12 Shakespeare: i dont seek to underdstand why

02:25:16 Shakespeare: i just know i do

02:25:32 asciilifeform: 'ours is not to question why, ours is but to [wank] and die.'

02:25:43 mircea_popescu: haha

02:25:55 asciilifeform: 'into the valley of reddit rode the six hundred'

02:26:15 mircea_popescu: Neil wanna bet on that ?

02:27:15 Shakespeare: I do repent the tedious minutes I with her have spent

02:28:38 Shakespeare: http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/media/advisories/bitcoin-advisory.html

02:28:39 ozbot: Consumer Alert: Buy Bitcoins at Your Own Risk

02:28:48 mircea_popescu: "No Mircia, US isn't confused, just disgusted with thugs like #Putin"

02:28:50 mircea_popescu: derp.

02:29:11 mircea_popescu: putin should come out of the closet as a furry or something, just to troll reddit.

02:29:46 Shakespeare: Putin is doing pretty well with his branding as is

02:30:14 Shakespeare: basically seens as the cuddly mobster with a beach bod

02:30:18 Shakespeare: seen*

02:30:19 mircea_popescu: if he did more craigkate type of stuff it'd be riotous.

02:30:56 asciilifeform: putin's position with respect to the u.s. is roughly similar to mpex vs. the btc wankiverse

02:31:02 mircea_popescu: this is the problem with large organisations and old people, they aren't in touch with the kids anymore, dunno how to really hurt them.

02:31:12 asciilifeform: the latter has nothing the former needs

02:31:23 mircea_popescu: a steady stream of "putin takes stance on making kremlin toilets use recycled paper" bs would do wonders.

02:31:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but you will notice that mpex has mpoe-pr doing a lot of fun stuff

02:31:54 Shakespeare: mp will you pay for my ticket from Romania to Amsterdam to go to the Bitcoin 2014 conference and call out Jon Matonis with a crowd present?

02:31:58 mircea_popescu: where's putin's hottie in ten inch heels ?

02:32:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.0007995 = 9.9138 BTC [-]

02:32:21 Duffer1: i'd put .1 on that shakespear

02:32:21 Shakespeare: and/or Hearn

02:32:23 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare no, but matonis could pay me not to pay you...

02:32:31 asciilifeform: the fellow he pays to take photos of him hugging (or, occasionally, shooting and stuffing) large fauna are analogous to the pr.

02:32:50 Shakespeare: amd/or Marco Santori

02:32:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notrly, he doesn't have reddit comments going "reading putin's pr chick makes me physically hurt"

02:33:08 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare who's that one ?

02:33:12 Shakespeare: would you at least pay for my hash?

02:33:32 Shakespeare: Santori is the "bitcoin lawyer"

02:33:40 Shakespeare: who is generlaly horrible

02:33:43 mircea_popescu: nah it was murck

02:33:49 mircea_popescu: o, the forum one. ok ok

02:33:50 thestringpuller: conference is what ont the 20th?

02:33:51 Shakespeare: he'll be there too

02:34:00 thestringpuller: i have to be in germany at the end of march

02:34:01 thestringpuller: boo

02:34:19 Shakespeare: it's May 15-17

02:34:19 mircea_popescu: that's ok, once they reach a level where they can be helped they'll make their way here.

02:34:37 thestringpuller: no the MPEx conference in April

02:34:42 Shakespeare: yeah

02:34:50 Shakespeare: i'm just making excuses to do a euro toyur

02:34:53 thestringpuller: when did it change to may?

02:34:53 Shakespeare: tour

02:35:11 Shakespeare: Romania, Amsterdam, Cyprus

02:35:24 mircea_popescu: "The Piraeus bond deal underscores both the continued improvement in the perception of Greece?s economy as well as the flood of cash in the financial system that has depressed returns on debt of all stripes."

02:35:29 mircea_popescu: dude fucking bubble from hell they're inflating.

02:35:38 mircea_popescu: CCC greek bank raises half a bn euros at 5.125%

02:35:51 Shakespeare: who the hell wants greek bonds

02:35:52 mircea_popescu: unsecured 3 year senior

02:35:55 mircea_popescu: ikr ?

02:36:05 mircea_popescu: i'll tell you who. all the people with worthless cash.

02:36:40 Shakespeare: maybe if they all trade bonds for bonds enough between countries, all the debt will go away

02:37:01 Shakespeare: that's the idea right?

02:37:21 mircea_popescu: yeah, like if you have sex with a lot of 3 year olds your hiv will be cured.

02:37:31 Shakespeare: kick the can, it's barely got a dent!

02:38:16 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller that's in like late april.

02:38:35 mircea_popescu: The current digital currency narrative, while certainly attractive to entrepreneurs, venture capital, and the media, is extremely "First World" in nature. And a primary question remains -- do such innovations, as we know them today, address the needs of consumers and businesses on both sides of an international transaction?

02:38:40 mircea_popescu: derp.

02:38:49 mircea_popescu: how can there be so much derp available ?

02:39:01 asciilifeform: the one inexhaustible natural resource.

02:39:02 mircea_popescu: it's like... nobody ever puts in a derp order that goes unfilled by the derpgods ?

02:39:11 Shakespeare: is that a WU quote?

02:39:14 mircea_popescu: yea

02:39:17 Shakespeare: ...

02:39:20 mircea_popescu: well forbes really

02:39:29 Shakespeare: who do they think theyre fooling?

02:39:32 mircea_popescu: i mean fortune sorry.

02:39:37 Shakespeare: shareholders i guess

02:39:43 mircea_popescu: who ? do you even read the log!

02:39:49 mircea_popescu: "The Piraeus bond deal underscores..."

02:39:51 Shakespeare: not today

02:39:55 Shakespeare: i drank instead

02:40:09 mircea_popescu: i never tried that one. what's it, a vodka ?

02:40:09 Shakespeare: mea culpa

02:40:29 Shakespeare: i mixed

02:40:38 Shakespeare: probly regret it tomorrow

02:40:47 mircea_popescu: actually "instead" sounds more like a tequilla

02:40:48 asciilifeform: who was 'pravda' for? not every squeal that comes out of an idiot is intended to communicate - even to deceive. sometimes, it's just the croaking of frogs.

02:41:00 asciilifeform: it's just wired to make certain noises.

02:41:12 mircea_popescu: i doubt frogs croak without communicative intent

02:41:18 mircea_popescu: they gotta fuck

02:41:20 Shakespeare: whiskey, beer, some ginger drink with i think rye whiskey, beer, malbec

02:41:27 asciilifeform: better example, buzz of the fly

02:41:30 *: Shakespeare shrugs

02:41:32 asciilifeform: it's just the way the wings are set up.

02:41:34 mircea_popescu: drink some concrete, you'll be all set.

02:41:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform much better example indeed.

02:42:05 asciilifeform: i vaguely recall that the buzz isn't from the wings proper, but from little quasi-vestigial winglets

02:42:13 mircea_popescu: im sure that according to the fly's own onboard instrumentation, its flight is quiet.

02:42:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 40 @ 0.03010004 = 1.204 BTC [+] {5}

02:42:16 asciilifeform: whose purpose is unclear, but if removed, the insect won't fly.

02:42:23 mircea_popescu: stabilisation afaik

02:42:29 asciilifeform: they are thought to dissipate turbulence or somesuch

02:42:31 asciilifeform: last i checked.

02:42:36 mircea_popescu: something like that

02:43:11 mircea_popescu: benkay that blockchain thing actually soiunds like a good idea. i can't believe they're past the 24h mark.

02:43:22 benkay: but what criteria!?

02:43:55 mircea_popescu: someone offers proof of being owed ?

02:44:14 benkay: anyways, off to troll the local yokels about their inadequate security and absurd obeisance to the tyrant

02:44:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0540999 = 0.1082 BTC [+] {2}

02:44:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

02:44:30 benkay: that's not easily faked?

02:44:33 thestringpuller: Timosora Germany Amsterdam then back home for under 3 btc

02:44:34 benkay: i'll be watching the logs

02:44:35 mircea_popescu: bloctoc if you have the fiat collateral to post im pretty sure you'll find some. you can prolly even ask coinbase.

02:44:36 thestringpuller: wow

02:44:39 thestringpuller: travel isn't bad these days

02:44:48 Shakespeare: my wife is pissed at me because i said people dont pasteurize chemicals and i wasnt polite enough (being wrong wasnt even the issue, as she was talking about apple cider vinegar, and i was talkign about acetic acid)

02:44:50 thestringpuller: TOO BAD nubbins` hasn't finished my tribute

02:45:13 nubbins`: too bad you only paid for the draft sketches :\

02:45:16 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare make her kneel naked on dry beans for two hours.

02:45:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 251 @ 0.00410364 = 1.03 BTC [-] {7}

02:46:41 thestringpuller: lets resolve that right now yes yes?

02:47:06 mircea_popescu: lmao so i made hotel reservations today, which they confirmed in triplicate, and the girl eager to impress both her boss and his mysterious business partner guy of numerous hermetic grandeurs (ie, me) broke out the special character set : "doubl? rooms" she says.

02:47:09 Shakespeare: this is compounded by her being mad at neil degrasse tyson for saying evolution is a fact

02:47:16 mircea_popescu: wait what ?!

02:47:44 Shakespeare: she just thinks scientists shouldnt be so arrogant about their proven theories

02:48:04 mircea_popescu: this woman would chew on her own liver if she ever read these logs wouldn't she.

02:48:09 Shakespeare: i explained that just because they say evolution is fact, doesnt mean they exclude all other possible influence

02:48:22 Shakespeare: she'd at least chew on mine

02:48:51 Shakespeare: maybe mutations arent totally random, whatever

02:49:01 Shakespeare: everything is true until it is untrue

02:49:13 mircea_popescu: so what's her alternative pet theory ?

02:49:18 Shakespeare: none

02:49:23 Shakespeare: just "mean" is bad

02:49:23 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: is the conference in may not april?

02:49:32 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller april 18-20

02:49:54 Shakespeare: she just thinks they need to be more open-minded

02:50:02 Shakespeare: i explained there is a scienctific process

02:50:06 Shakespeare: etc

02:50:17 mircea_popescu: well i agree, they should be more open minded.

02:50:26 Shakespeare: sure

02:50:35 mircea_popescu: this is like, you know, coffee should taste better.

02:50:48 Shakespeare: but you can see how the first statement morphed with each of my rebuttals

02:50:56 mircea_popescu: hence the dry beans.

02:51:07 asciilifeform: how come nobody goes around telling, say, electrical engineers to be 'more open minded,' and consider devils as an alternative to maxwell's equations in explaining electromagnetic phenomena ?

02:51:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.0007995 = 2.3186 BTC [-]

02:51:39 asciilifeform: why is it that only biologists are forced to deal with this

02:51:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more open minded, in this context, is for instance considering the point that a severe beating is liable to be at least as effective an educational tool as speech.

02:51:58 Shakespeare: really the only lesson to learn is to not watch Cosmos with others

02:52:09 Shakespeare: it's boring as fuck anyway

02:52:14 asciilifeform: afaik this is not a controversial position outside of the weird anglo nature preserve.

02:52:30 mircea_popescu: which is a billion strong and incredibly vocal.

02:52:50 Shakespeare: that, and of course, that your wife is always right

02:52:54 mircea_popescu: people keep harping about "inequality of wealth distribution", but that fails to worry me.

02:53:15 mircea_popescu: what does worry me is that out of the stupidities emitted every day, said sphere leisurely owns 99.x%

02:53:28 mircea_popescu: while by population should only be entitled to a modest 15%

02:53:41 Shakespeare: well why are smart people so disinclined to reproduce?

02:53:53 nubbins`: because they know better

02:53:55 mircea_popescu: because it doesn't pay.

02:53:56 Shakespeare: pretty stupid, if you ask me

02:54:07 mircea_popescu: do youwant me to dig up my article on the topic ?

02:54:11 Shakespeare: at least donate sperm

02:54:15 nubbins`: lel

02:54:24 nubbins`: donate sperm, no thanks

02:54:26 Shakespeare: is it in Romanian?

02:54:33 mircea_popescu: i can't recall ;/

02:54:59 Shakespeare: i watched a documentary on Romanian street kids

02:55:00 asciilifeform: the anglos have fucked up even sperm donation

02:55:15 Shakespeare: girls that look like boys, huffing paint all day

02:55:23 asciilifeform: us and brits both opened donors to paternity lawsuits

02:55:28 nubbins`: "why are smart people disinclined to put their lives and plans on hold for decades and hit a generational reset button?"

02:55:33 nubbins`: totally valid question D;

02:55:35 Shakespeare: is that still how it is in the subway?

02:56:12 Shakespeare: the documentary blamed it on the banning of birth control

02:56:26 Shakespeare: but all the kids seemed to be escaping alcoholic dads

02:57:18 Shakespeare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_Underground

02:57:19 ozbot: Children Underground - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

02:59:14 mircea_popescu: huffing toluene/whatever other solvents is not that geograpghically concentrated

02:59:56 asciilifeform: by some accounts, we have the u.s. newspapers (circa '50s-60s) to thank for the popularity of this practice.

03:00:30 mircea_popescu: it may actually be genetic. about 18% or so of the population finds various aromatic hydrocarbons... aromatic.

03:00:38 mircea_popescu: (ie, gasoline smells good to them)

03:00:50 Shakespeare: i like the smell of gasoline

03:00:55 mircea_popescu: so there yo ugo. you're a winner.

03:00:59 asciilifeform: lol

03:01:12 mircea_popescu: you have like 30% chances to develop some types of liver cancer etc.

03:01:19 Shakespeare: aurolac i think, was the stuff they huffed

03:01:25 asciilifeform: might just be an 'irritation threshhold' phenomenon.

03:01:25 mircea_popescu: that's a brand name.

03:01:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what i read suggested it's the presence of particular enzimatic pathways

03:01:56 mircea_popescu: like some people think peanut butter smells awful

03:02:05 Shakespeare: i mean i dont like so much i'd seek out smelling it

03:02:14 mircea_popescu: their liver is just not too happy with the prospect of having to cope with that load.

03:02:18 Shakespeare: but there's some interest when i do

03:02:24 asciilifeform: 'normal' phenotype doesn't really get to smell the gasoline, he goes 'aargh' from his nose dissolving a little

03:02:36 Shakespeare: i also love peanut butter

03:02:39 Shakespeare: a lot

03:02:44 mircea_popescu: so do most dogs

03:02:48 Shakespeare: well

03:02:58 Shakespeare: i dont like dogs particularly

03:03:15 mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a lot of metabolic diversity under this "all humans are humans" misguided perception. and it isn't limited to this species, either.

03:03:28 mircea_popescu: some dogs love chocolate. some other dogs can die spontaneously from it.

03:03:49 mircea_popescu: cats are fine, but i've never heard of a cat like th estuff

03:03:55 asciilifeform: obligate carnivores tend to have 'underpowered' liver

03:04:00 asciilifeform: on average.

03:04:05 Shakespeare: i have a cat that loves beer

03:04:13 Shakespeare: which i know is toxic for cats

03:04:13 nubbins`: onions are bad for cats

03:04:35 asciilifeform: the beast isn't really built to deal with plant toxins

03:04:43 Shakespeare: another cat loves wheat bread

03:04:53 Shakespeare: tears through the bag if left unattended

03:05:03 nubbins`: there's mixed opinions on whether tomatoes are bad for cats

03:05:16 Shakespeare: same cat will play fetch too

03:05:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah. but also a lot of variation there.

03:05:17 nubbins`: altho TBH people thought tomatoes were bad for people until what, the 1800s?

03:05:28 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that was due to the lead.

03:05:30 asciilifeform: a plant toxin the eater can't 'deal with' is poison, or drug, depending on dose and aesthetics

03:05:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i kept proposing people to make catnip illegal in the us

03:05:50 nubbins`: i figured it was because it's from the nightshade family

03:05:57 mircea_popescu: very few got the high quality trolling they were blessed with.

03:06:11 nubbins`: either way, imagine being the guy who discovered tomatoes are awesome

03:06:21 mircea_popescu: nubbins` no. this was chiefly a us phenomenon. the us at the time was poor and lazy, so most of their flatware was made of lead.

03:06:31 mircea_popescu: guess what happens to lead that's washed in aciding tomato juice.

03:06:41 asciilifeform: if catnip worked on man like it does on cat, i doubt it would be permitted even in the u.s. botanical garden.

03:06:42 mircea_popescu: acidic*

03:06:48 Shakespeare: raw tomatoes make me gag

03:06:53 nubbins`: it makes the food healthier? ;(

03:06:57 asciilifeform: (where you will find, for instance, khat - and possibly other forbidden flora)

03:07:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but why should it be allowed for cats ? it's a drug neh ?

03:07:07 mircea_popescu: people ABUSE their pets...

03:07:20 nubbins`: if cats paid taxes, catnip would be illegal

03:07:34 mircea_popescu: cats pay more taxes than most us dwellers.

03:07:42 mircea_popescu: any idea what a bag of catfood costs ?

03:07:47 asciilifeform: lol

03:07:48 nubbins`: incidentally, yes

03:07:52 mircea_popescu: not to mention the shit trays and medical inspections.

03:07:56 asciilifeform: in the town there i live, there is, theoretically, a tax on cats

03:07:58 asciilifeform: nobody pays

03:08:02 Shakespeare: i have one cat with protein allergies

03:08:05 Shakespeare: so they all eat duck

03:08:08 nubbins`: $75 to get a thermometer stuck up Pinki's ass last week

03:08:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform plenty of indirect taxes tho. everyone pays.

03:08:16 asciilifeform: sure.

03:09:17 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-divine-cunt/

03:09:24 mircea_popescu: turns out it was in english. grep "reproduce"

03:09:39 Shakespeare: dammit my fraudsters cookie reset

03:12:00 asciilifeform: damn, thought that was the post where you described automatic 'public impregnators' for japan

03:12:05 asciilifeform: turns out that was elsewhere.

03:12:08 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know, paragraph long links look kinda dorky

03:12:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform most of myshit is misplaced by now.

03:12:55 asciilifeform: i picture this hypothetical device as being a kind of topologically reverse version of the 'milking machine' japan recently became famous for.

03:13:28 asciilifeform: nm - chinese!

03:13:32 asciilifeform: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/hands-free-sperm-donation-machine_n_1908437.html

03:13:32 ozbot: Hands-Free Sperm Extractor: Zhengzhou Central Hospital In China Introduces New Donation Machine

03:13:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31816 @ 0.00080044 = 25.4668 BTC [+] {2}

03:14:17 mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/habeas-corpus/6/

03:14:18 ozbot: habeas corpus

03:14:23 mircea_popescu: analinguists ftw!

03:14:41 Shakespeare: so far Stacey Nelkin seems kinda derpy

03:15:18 mircea_popescu: that's the genius of it :D

03:15:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35000 @ 0.00080298 = 28.1043 BTC [+] {2}

03:17:27 Shakespeare: as an aside while i read, do you consider a state leader imposing law that results in more children to be smart or dumb?

03:17:38 Shakespeare: i guess that's a loaded q

03:17:44 Shakespeare: needs more context

03:17:47 mircea_popescu: do read.

03:17:53 mircea_popescu: somehow stacey asks the same.

03:18:09 asciilifeform: Shakespeare: not unlike asking 'is a leader who imposes law resulting in more steel production smart' ?

03:18:16 asciilifeform: ;;google chinese backyard steel

03:18:17 gribble: Backyard furnace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_furnace; Great Leap Forward - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward; The Great Leap Forward Period in China, 1958-1960: http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/greatleap.htm

03:18:52 mircea_popescu: for that matter : leadership and lawmaking are quite distinct endeavours.

03:18:59 mircea_popescu: a leader that imposes laws is doing something wrong.

03:20:00 asciilifeform: 'i gave the fool an ax, to fetch some kindling sticks; and to the mosque he went, and smashed the door to bits.' (persian, bad double-translation from rus. mine)

03:20:20 mircea_popescu: not so bad.

03:20:45 mircea_popescu: incidentally it is naught but shoicking how little persian exists in english translations,

03:20:51 mircea_popescu: all things considered.

03:20:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41850 @ 0.00080328 = 33.6173 BTC [+]

03:20:57 asciilifeform: 'rubaiat' and that's it, afaik.

03:21:41 mircea_popescu: which was british anyway.

03:21:47 mircea_popescu: and is quite spotty.

03:22:15 asciilifeform: english gentleman, afaik, wasn't expected to bother with translations, but to go out and learn languages

03:22:20 asciilifeform: hence we have what we have.

03:22:32 mircea_popescu: afaik the russian inteligentsia of today is developing quite a crush on persian cultural achievements.

03:23:10 mircea_popescu: (which does not map on iran at all, and which actually in the future may be the engine that liberates the poor persians from the smelly arab invaders)

03:23:37 asciilifeform: which achievements? classics? or this:

03:23:39 asciilifeform: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270619/Sharia-saw-Iran-releases-pictures-brutal-amputation-machine-chopping-mans-fingers-bid-clamp-election-dissent.html

03:23:40 ozbot: Sharia saw: Iran releases pictures of brutal amputation machine chopping off man's fingers in bid to

03:24:21 mircea_popescu: classics.

03:24:47 mircea_popescu: that crap is arabic not persian.

03:25:01 asciilifeform: sure.

03:25:52 asciilifeform: not sure if you could, at this point, 'separate the flies from the cutlets' (to use the rus. expression)

03:26:01 mircea_popescu: and if this is the next target for the suddenly found int'l cock of putin,

03:26:03 asciilifeform: it'd be like liberating constantinople from the turks

03:26:10 mircea_popescu: then we'll get perhaps to hear all about the arab nazis on orlov's blog

03:26:15 asciilifeform: lol

03:26:18 mircea_popescu: :D

03:26:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you definitely can, iran is more deeply split than the ukraine.

03:26:52 asciilifeform: recent word is that russian engineers (including girls) are happily collecting 'hazard pay' building infrastructure (incl. fission) for iran

03:26:54 mircea_popescu: you ever seen "a separation" ?

03:27:13 asciilifeform: and the girls are supposed to wear the bags, but piss on the demand

03:27:17 mircea_popescu: yeah, plenty of romanians too.

03:27:21 asciilifeform: good money.

03:27:34 mircea_popescu: they have this special immunity thing, they don't have to as long as they stay in the "foreigner" zone

03:27:47 mircea_popescu: they can even drink, there.

03:27:54 mircea_popescu: special shop, accessible by passport.

03:28:04 asciilifeform: the turks, if i recall, took this to a high art

03:28:07 asciilifeform: centuries ago

03:28:14 asciilifeform: (venetians)

03:28:26 mircea_popescu: yup

03:28:29 mircea_popescu: gyaurs

03:28:59 asciilifeform: i'm waiting for the extraterritoriality zones in the u.s., where folks are permitted to behave like human beings

03:29:34 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/jodaeiye-nader-az-simin/ << this is the film in quesiton.

03:29:35 ozbot: Jodaeiye Nader az Simin pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

03:29:53 mircea_popescu: in it, the father teaches his pubescent daughter the difference between "us" and "those people" as a matter of course,

03:30:11 mircea_popescu: and generally the degree to which the society is steeped in it is clearly apparent

03:30:26 chetty: asciilifeform: you mean the 'reservations'?

03:30:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform precisely what the recent thing with the sec was all aobut.

03:30:32 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Noted for future reference

03:30:49 mircea_popescu: "you may continue to pretend you're a country just as soon as you come to terms with us being immune"

03:31:57 thestringpuller: ;;echo .bait

03:31:58 gribble: .bait

03:31:59 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83bnsfF3u1r1c1lbo1_500.jpg

03:33:03 mircea_popescu: .echo ;;echo .bait

03:33:03 ozbot: -.-

03:33:03 ozbot: -.-

03:33:03 ozbot: earn currently unavailable

03:33:09 mircea_popescu: aok

03:33:34 mircea_popescu: .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo

03:33:34 mircea_popescu: ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .bait

03:33:34 ozbot: -.-

03:33:34 ozbot: -.-

03:33:34 ozbot: earn currently unavailable

03:33:35 gribble: .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .echo ;;echo .bait

03:33:35 ozbot: -.-

03:33:35 ozbot: -.-

03:33:35 ozbot: earn currently unavailable

03:33:55 dub: hax0r

03:33:59 asciilifeform: chetty: u.s. 'reservations' as they presently exist aren't the least bit 'extraterritorial' - they've been busted open for something as mundane as 'war on drugs' in the past.

03:34:01 mircea_popescu: i have my moments

03:34:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 703 @ 0.00049 = 0.3445 BTC [-] {2}

03:34:20 asciilifeform: proper extraterritoriality needs a genuine power, that can make it stick

03:35:25 mircea_popescu: usually known as the power of fuck you.

03:35:42 mircea_popescu: precisely what the most serene republic amply posessed and widely employed.

03:35:44 BingoBoingo: The bitcoinpete link is fixed

03:35:54 asciilifeform: exactly this.

03:36:20 Shakespeare: okay i'm done reading

03:36:23 Shakespeare: some questions

03:36:43 Shakespeare: could a population thrive where the role is reversed?

03:36:47 Shakespeare: men being raped

03:36:54 Shakespeare: men being the "women"

03:37:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00080013 = 20.8834 BTC [-]

03:37:29 Shakespeare: same question for an economy

03:37:30 chetty: society can not fight mother nature

03:37:34 mircea_popescu: not unless by "men" you understand "they with vaginas and pregnancies"

03:37:34 Shakespeare: women doing the work

03:37:47 Shakespeare: well men doing the rearing

03:37:50 mircea_popescu: human gender is not biologically symmetrical.

03:37:56 Shakespeare: sure

03:38:04 Shakespeare: but i didnt ask whether they were

03:38:17 mircea_popescu: well sure, that's the end of it. "could a planet exist with aqueous atmosphere and oceans of air ?"

03:38:18 mircea_popescu: no.

03:38:21 Shakespeare: merely if it's a role issue more than a gender one

03:38:21 mircea_popescu: next question.

03:38:46 asciilifeform: i often wonder why u.s. 'feminists' don't parade the most remarkable 'equality' freak show - post-war ussr

03:38:54 asciilifeform: with the burly steamroller driving girls

03:39:00 chetty: no its not, the roles are part of biology

03:39:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the decorated mothers of ten.

03:39:39 mircea_popescu: the answer my friend (as you well know) is that feminism is not a theory, nor science, but a marketing ploy.

03:39:39 asciilifeform: they had serious problems with, at one point, mostly female police force in certain places

03:39:49 asciilifeform: would routinely be killed with own sidearms

03:39:50 asciilifeform: etc

03:39:54 Shakespeare: is your text also implying that a society which gives women fair play in the economy, ie females CEOs, equal pay, etc, is doomed the same?

03:40:02 mircea_popescu: actuially mostly female police seems to work wel lin columbia

03:40:20 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare yes. a democracy can never produce art. give the plebs the vote, you've ended painting, and music.

03:40:38 mircea_popescu: a society where women have a say in their reproductive history will produce a finite number of generations.

03:40:47 mircea_popescu: these aren't negotiable, in any manner.

03:41:05 Shakespeare: hmm

03:41:21 asciilifeform: people told 'female police force' picture 'ilsa, she-wolf of auschwitz' rather than the more likely office plankton girl next door stuffed into a uniform.

03:41:26 Shakespeare: what if the women become self-aware in this way

03:41:42 mircea_popescu: what if i knew what the words you use mean.

03:41:48 Shakespeare: and seek to institutionalize sifficient reproduction

03:41:55 Shakespeare: sufficient*

03:41:58 mircea_popescu: but they wouldn't.

03:42:12 asciilifeform: Shakespeare: scroll up for coin-operated public impregnatrons.

03:42:17 Shakespeare: because they wouldnt care to

03:42:23 mircea_popescu: not exactly.

03:42:26 chetty: pass a law that the wind can not blow?

03:43:11 asciilifeform: (2024: listed as 'S.POOJ.' ye read it here phirst.)

03:43:26 Shakespeare: i do suppose the nature of male is still quite that it would seek to dominate

03:43:41 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare now, getting back to your original q, economic independence is not problematic, just as long as its not backed by legal independence.

03:43:59 mircea_popescu: this is why jooz mostly survived, and middle east models allow for stable populations.

03:44:04 mircea_popescu: places like cyprus say.

03:44:15 mircea_popescu: while the economy is in fact wholly controlled by matriarchs, nevertheless they have no legal rights.

03:44:54 Shakespeare: and this whole perspective is more likely the more intellectual root of conservative americans concerns for the sancitity of the family?

03:45:17 Shakespeare: sanctity*

03:45:29 mircea_popescu: it's an unclear intuition in their turbid heads of something that's factually there.

03:45:35 asciilifeform: 'intellectual root of conservative americans' concerns mainly the rust on their truck mufflers.

03:45:38 mircea_popescu: "if woman is not held slave to man, society ends".

03:46:02 Shakespeare: this certainly adds much-needed depth to their behavior

03:46:06 mircea_popescu: yes.

03:46:14 mircea_popescu: because merely saying "these people are stupid" is rather poor sociology.

03:46:22 mircea_popescu: stupid they may well be.

03:46:31 mircea_popescu: but why stupid this way rather than that still needs to be explained.

03:46:51 Shakespeare: same for being anti-gay i suppose

03:47:00 mircea_popescu: i have no idea why they'd be anti gay.

03:47:03 Shakespeare: where will raping men get us

03:47:07 Shakespeare: nowhere

03:47:13 mircea_popescu: i don't believe this works that far.

03:47:21 mircea_popescu: the romans were very openly pro-gay and worked just fine.

03:47:27 Shakespeare: hmm

03:47:29 mircea_popescu: what men do to each other does not matter in any sense.

03:48:02 asciilifeform: 'no idea why they'd be anti gay' << same reason as in russia, as described by mr. o - 'As Prof. Cohen recently pointed out, prior to Americans' gay rights agitation, Russian gays used to be called ?faggots?; now they are being called ?American faggots,? and gay rights in Russia have taken a giant leap back.'

03:48:08 Shakespeare: and this Garden movie, still required watching you think?

03:48:18 chetty: don't confuse anti-gay with protect marriage - the roman gay still married and had children

03:48:22 mircea_popescu: which garden movie ?

03:48:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps simple knee jerk "no no no no no no "

03:48:39 Shakespeare: "Gardens of the Night (a 2008, also with John Malkovichiv) is yet another installment in that man’s awesome, ruefully complete, atrociously honest, blithely limpid discussion of the divine cunt. "

03:48:46 mircea_popescu: a yes.

03:49:00 mircea_popescu: it must be seen.

03:49:10 Shakespeare: i hope netlflix has it

03:49:11 asciilifeform: standard, ages-old algorithm. if you want to lower someone into bitchdom, take those he has himself lowered and forcibly lift them

03:49:21 mircea_popescu: one may discuss pedophilia either as an actual professional, having gone to proper school for it

03:49:22 asciilifeform: thereby sitting him under domination of bitches

03:49:29 mircea_popescu: or else as an amateur, having at least seen that film.

03:49:45 asciilifeform: (s/bitch/пидор for the linguistically non-challenged)

03:50:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26950 @ 0.00080354 = 21.6554 BTC [+] {2}

03:50:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not sure i follow the implication here.

03:50:47 asciilifeform: this is a parsimonious hypothesis to explain american 'concern' for certain 'oppressed groups' worldwide

03:51:10 *: mircea_popescu does the ny hand jewsture.

03:51:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see your piece on the forcible prevention of 'school bully'

03:51:32 asciilifeform: and its actual motivations

03:51:42 asciilifeform: same dynamic.

03:51:47 mircea_popescu: i dun believe it, tbh. they're "concerned" about gay rights for much simpler reasons,

03:51:52 mircea_popescu: which are purely economical.

03:52:14 mircea_popescu: ie : how do poor would-be "CEO"s create a rent extractive engine ?

03:52:26 mircea_popescu: why, by making an overseas ngo doing something like protecting gay rights.

03:52:33 asciilifeform: freshly-uplifted 'bullied' folks can be relied upon as lackeys

03:52:35 mircea_popescu: now they get to travel, which excusesd them from owning a house,

03:52:42 mircea_popescu: and they can ask their rich friends for money

03:52:44 Shakespeare: the line i feel the most, in the whole thing, is this: "If you can do anything it’ll be hard actually doing anything."

03:53:04 Shakespeare: that cloud has hung over me many times in life

03:53:15 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare my mother had me at 21, which was a reasonable time to have a kid at the time, towards the end of one's secondary studies.

03:53:29 mircea_popescu: she was in a room with a 17yo and a 18yo girl.

03:53:41 mircea_popescu: doctor told her it's fucking late to have kids in your 20s and wtf is this bs.

03:54:29 mircea_popescu: those 17yos are still having kids today, except "it's a problem"

03:54:35 mircea_popescu: and those 20yos are now waiting to be 30.

03:54:48 Shakespeare: indeed

03:54:56 Shakespeare: and soon waiting to be 40

03:54:57 mircea_popescu: human female is really built for primiparity around the age of 18

03:55:01 mircea_popescu: 17, something.

03:55:12 asciilifeform: well, in usa 'adulthood' costs $1/2mil

03:55:22 asciilifeform: at least in the 'white zone'

03:55:42 asciilifeform: (elsewhere, $0, but it's academic to the afflicted)

03:55:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i heartily recommend having the kids in egypt.

03:55:53 mircea_popescu: costs ~1 dollar a day, and it's a much better environment

03:56:01 mircea_popescu: or w/e, was, a decade ago. maybe meanwhile went to shit.

03:56:13 asciilifeform: perhaps before it got ukrained.

03:56:27 mircea_popescu: yeah, this was cca 2004

03:56:29 okcjosh: whats the going consensus on the GHS futures at cex.io

03:56:29 okcjosh: ?

03:56:37 Shakespeare: it seems the more blurred this line between man and woman, the more discontent is bred

03:56:46 mircea_popescu: okcjosh you'll have to be more specific.

03:57:21 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare people often misrepresent their boredom and pointlessness as "discontent"

03:57:31 okcjosh: will it pay off? Right now a may GHS is around 33% the price of a live GHS. Does buying 3 times as many GHS for may have a good chance of paying out more, based on estimated Diff increase?

03:57:35 asciilifeform: technical term, afaik, is 'ennui'

03:57:42 Shakespeare: i see them being all one

03:57:50 asciilifeform: goes well with balanced diet of 'anomie'

03:58:35 mircea_popescu: okcjosh when i ask you to be specific i mean about the contracts you're discussing.

03:58:39 Shakespeare: somehow it seems buddhism is a spawn of all this

03:58:47 Shakespeare: be one with being nothing

03:59:21 Shakespeare: i guess all religion might be a spawn of this struggle

03:59:37 Shakespeare: both societal and economic

04:00:21 mircea_popescu: the irony here being that women do not in fact object to being quite literally enslaved,

04:00:26 mircea_popescu: but they do prefer an actual man.

04:00:31 Shakespeare: indeed

04:00:36 mircea_popescu: and the supply of actual men is so tight... so, so tight...

04:01:14 Shakespeare: well morals and community and etc all serve to pervert this

04:01:42 asciilifeform: 'drive nature out with pitchfork...'

04:02:05 Shakespeare: ignorance is truly bliss

04:06:34 dexX7: ;;tslb

04:06:37 gribble: Time since last block: 11 minutes and 54 seconds

04:08:25 BingoBoingo: ;;lasers

04:08:25 gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*

04:08:41 asciilifeform: ;;synchrophasotron

04:08:41 gribble: Error: "synchrophasotron" is not a valid command.

04:08:44 asciilifeform: damn.

04:09:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43554 @ 0.00080426 = 35.0287 BTC [+] {2}

04:09:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07326103 = 0.2198 BTC [+]

04:15:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00080381 = 12.3787 BTC [-]

04:16:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.0008047 = 12.9154 BTC [+]

04:18:27 mircea_popescu: what is with this 80-88 vibration

04:18:42 Chris_Sabian: huh?

04:20:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-]

04:20:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.053002 = 0.106 BTC [-]

04:23:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40820 @ 0.00080092 = 32.6936 BTC [-] {3}

04:24:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9882 @ 0.00079933 = 7.899 BTC [-]

04:30:46 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe someone is playing with themselves and hoping to trap someone when they break pattern?

04:35:37 mircea_popescu: must be

04:44:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00079924 = 29.2921 BTC [-]

04:45:53 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.msg5775230#msg5775230

04:45:54 ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide

04:45:58 mircea_popescu: check out all teh butthurt lmao

04:46:21 mircea_popescu: "o i had imagined i am important whai is it the case nobody cares"

04:47:30 mircea_popescu: .d

04:47:30 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1066 blocks | Estimated Change: 7.9920% in 6d 19h 26m 23s

04:52:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00079852 = 13.2554 BTC [-]

04:53:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 4000 @ 0.0001 = 0.4 BTC [-]

04:54:13 BingoBoingo: All this butthurt over the fact they couldn't identify operators willing to continue indefinitely instead of collapsing at the first sign of opposition

04:55:28 mircea_popescu: this particular guy seems more like the armchair general type.

04:55:57 mircea_popescu: the sort that figures that by spending an inordinate amount of time derping on the internet he has now amassed credibility and importance and should be taken seriously.

04:56:24 BingoBoingo: Well their derping in other of your PR's threads supports that

04:56:25 mircea_popescu: sort-of like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time adding code on github they are now decident factors in the future of the world,

04:56:49 mircea_popescu: just like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time editing wikipedia they are now qualified to whatever, direct research spending i guess.

04:57:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39093 @ 0.00080439 = 31.446 BTC [+] {5}

04:57:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.01690824 = 0.1014 BTC [+] {2}

04:57:48 mircea_popescu: "The worship appears mutual, and watching Wetern media worship a bunch of nobodys whose idea of public art is going into supermarkets and stuffing frozen chickens in their vaginas (?Pussy Riot,? that is) provides much-needed comic relief."

04:57:59 mircea_popescu: o what is this, disparaging vagina stuffing ?

04:58:06 mircea_popescu: such codgerism.

04:59:23 BingoBoingo: Sentence seems like someone who probably was just weeks ago glorifying the extremes of human performance on display at the olympics. Why the double standard for vaginal performance?

05:00:32 mircea_popescu: in general because old men fear shameless hussies as the likely agents of young alpha males, which is how you say "evil" for old people.

05:05:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 5680 @ 0.00010001 = 0.5681 BTC [-]

05:07:47 BingoBoingo: I wonder how many of the Old GLBSE tards are familiar with this latest SEC email exchange? How hurt are the butts that saw Nefario just up and quit?

05:09:11 mircea_popescu: maybe do a poll ?

05:09:15 mircea_popescu: most of them are gone anyway.

05:10:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 733 @ 0.00080533 = 0.5903 BTC [+]

05:10:52 BingoBoingo: I wonder if there is a way to get the reaction from those exchange shareholder on welfare. If only there were a log like that of their reactions to be leaked.

05:11:19 mircea_popescu: i suppose if you're very bored you can hunt them all down and ask them, either on irc, via forum pms or w/e.

05:11:35 mircea_popescu: should make for an interesting collection.

05:12:14 mircea_popescu: this is what reporting is made out of, after all. burning the shoe rubber all day.

05:13:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 25 @ 0.0301 = 0.7525 BTC [-] {2}

05:16:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 567 @ 0.00080598 = 0.457 BTC [+] {2}

05:17:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 17 @ 0.03001224 = 0.5102 BTC [-] {2}

05:18:20 dexX7: https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*A_V4-l0Loh6CFbHyM5Qg5A.jpeg

05:18:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 15 @ 0.02996344 = 0.4495 BTC [-] {2}

05:20:55 bitcoinpete: allo

05:29:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00082313 = 0.1235 BTC [-] {3}

05:34:51 chetty: recall the talk about pilots and lasers? check this out

05:34:53 chetty: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/18/airplane-pilots-hit-by-nearly-blinding-glare-from-massive-calif-solar-facility/

05:34:53 ozbot: Pilots hit by 'nearly blinding' glare from solar facility | The Daily Caller

05:39:32 benkay: o hey high albedo shit is high albedo

05:39:38 benkay: WHADDAYA KNOW

05:39:47 benkay: well, reflective at certain angles

05:40:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00080598 = 26.7585 BTC [+]

05:40:12 benkay: dexX7: where'd you get that? it's excellent.

05:40:37 dexX7: reddit :)

05:41:23 punkman: here you go http://amultiverse.com/comic/2014/03/12/a-question-of-beef/

05:44:07 benkay: oh hey bitcoin payments for comics

05:44:47 benkay: their authors generate epic backlogs of work (some of them) and the fans are slavish fans who will pay for anything

05:45:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35336 @ 0.00080217 = 28.3455 BTC [-] {2}

05:45:34 benkay: i'm kinda amazed that Scenes from a Multiverse doesn't have a first button

05:46:35 punkman: wonder how these monthly subscriptions hold up, http://www.patreon.com/jonrosenberg

05:47:00 benkay: oh wait Shakespeare see above

05:47:46 benkay: no. credits

05:47:50 benkay: .

05:48:26 benkay: mireca_popescu already figured out out to monetize backlogs of content.

05:48:36 benkay: just...imitate those who get it?

05:49:53 LordPutin: anyone ableto log into the blockchain wallet atm?

05:50:30 benkay: LordPutin: have you tried hedging your losses on bitbet?

05:50:55 benkay: you might be able to troll the blockchain.info operators into putting 100B on "we totes have your butts"

06:00:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00080012 = 16.0824 BTC [-]

06:03:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1300 @ 0.0043276 = 5.6259 BTC [+] {6}

06:04:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00079961 = 33.9035 BTC [-] {2}

06:07:24 bitcoinpete: "Blockchain’s design is based on the principle of giving users 100% control of their funds. We don’t hold your keys and we don’t hold you hostage. You are your own bank." via https://blog.blockchain.com/2014/03/18/blockchain-services-fully-restored/

06:07:41 LordPutin: oh crap

06:07:47 bitcoinpete: written an hour ago. and they're down again.

06:07:58 LordPutin: i haven't had to enter mypassword in over a year

06:08:18 LordPutin: justbeen using it on the app and it keeps asking me to enter password

06:12:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05421217 = 0.1084 BTC [+] {2}

06:14:01 *: moiety retreats to -assets for safety

06:14:05 moiety: http://www.coinion.com/2014/02/21/mtgox-drop-bitcoin-start-trading-game-cards/

06:16:02 moiety: o i thought that was way more recent //scrap

06:16:50 bitcoinpete: lordputin: did you set up email back-ups? either way, bc.info will be back eventually and then you can move 99% of those coins somewhere safer. http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/on-making-high-entropy-bitcoin-paper-wallets/

06:17:03 benkay: hey moiety troll all the freaked out webwallet users with me

06:17:41 LordPutin: but what if i dont remember the password?

06:17:47 LordPutin: am i fucked

06:18:06 moiety: hey benkay ^^

06:18:14 benkay: probly purt darn near

06:18:49 benkay: so bitcoinpete what's your background?

06:19:14 moiety: LordPutin: kinda fucked until site is up anyways

06:19:23 bitcoinpete: benkay: where does one start?

06:19:42 LordPutin: so when website is up can i reset my password?

06:19:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05429429 = 0.1629 BTC [+] {3}

06:19:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-] {2}

06:20:10 moiety: with magic cards, more than likely

06:20:34 benkay: ah goodness you're a lifeboat guy

06:20:48 benkay: do you know mardlin?

06:21:14 benkay: ah its neat to see lifeboat folks in here

06:21:18 moiety: http://satoshibox.com/52b22c414c347b88810041a7 or do similar to this

06:21:18 ozbot: Bitcoin Wallet.dat with 629.56 BTC but i lost my 4 Digit password

06:21:28 chetty: why does anyone use webwallets ? I really am curious

06:21:29 benkay: the BSc in Immunology might not be a bad place to start, bitcoinpete

06:21:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25367 @ 0.00079831 = 20.2507 BTC [-] {2}

06:21:54 benkay: chetty: convenience and idiocy?

06:22:13 benkay: baha moiety

06:22:33 chetty: idiocy I get but convenience? like eating fast food?

06:22:55 moiety: well ours just got entirely fucked over but we had half site funds in cold storage

06:23:04 moiety: hence no moiety for couple days

06:23:18 benkay: ah that's where you've been. too bad to hear, moiety. what happened?

06:23:34 benkay: chetty: mcdonald's is delicious if you've never had a hamburger.

06:24:32 moiety: someone found an exploit and abused the fuck out of it. they actually were honest and paid back but someone else witnessed it and weren't so honest. generated a huge fake balance which they tipped out. emptying our wallet.

06:24:53 moiety: leaving me with a total shit storm to deal with

06:24:56 benkay: o yikes.

06:24:57 moiety: \o/

06:25:26 benkay: total losses, moiety?

06:26:37 moiety: over 100k

06:27:03 moiety: recovered a fair bit though :)

06:27:11 moiety: epic dev work

06:27:11 chetty: ouch

06:27:30 moiety: not btc!!! << play money as mircea woould say :P

06:28:26 benkay: yeah my eyes widened slightly for a second before reason kicked in

06:28:46 benkay: ;;calc 100000*123

06:28:46 gribble: 12300000

06:28:54 moiety: would never keep 100k+btc in hot

06:29:15 moiety: people are pricks seriously

06:30:47 benkay: ya

06:30:55 benkay: soft underbelly etc

06:31:03 moiety: present company excluded obvs

06:31:14 moiety: how have you guys been. yesterdays loges made me laugh

06:31:21 moiety: some people just dont give up huh?!

06:31:26 moiety: logs**

06:31:50 benkay: voof

06:32:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6514 @ 0.00080062 = 5.2152 BTC [+]

06:32:01 benkay: honestly rather glad i was traveling.

06:32:37 moiety: lol joe you stay away from my wallet with that name XD

06:32:45 moiety: benkay: anywhere nice?

06:33:57 benkay: the place is kinda fascinating

06:34:22 benkay: in a 'wheels come off society everything headed for oblivion and everyone singing blithely' sort of way

06:35:19 benkay: it's just not polite to say to the babe's family that their part of the world will be delivered unto the ocean along with them and all of their systems of belief and we'll all be much better for it.

06:36:04 benkay: theme park for nominally adult people.

06:36:16 benkay: and we didn't even make it to disneyland!

06:36:41 moiety: lolol

06:37:13 benkay: night moiety

06:37:14 moiety: and err youre right, i'd keep that to yourself re the 'rents XD

06:37:25 bitcoinpete: benkay: well, in a nutshell, those were the dreams-of-smed-school days, a dream resolved by B- grades and a lot of poker. after undergrad, this being alberta, i spent a year selling trucks and started blogging. after selling truck got boring, i did an after-degree in environmental health and spent 2.5 years working as a public health inspector with the province. then…bitcoin. always had an interest in tech, investing,

06:37:25 moiety: nanight benkay :) sleep well

06:37:26 bitcoinpete: philosophy, history. this clicked like nothing else. spent the last year trying to find my bearings. so here we are… blogging about mp's travails and waltzing across logs à la https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upsZZ2s3xv8

06:37:32 benkay: oh there's the pete

06:37:37 bitcoinpete: benkay: haha ya...

06:37:50 benkay: i was just headed out, figured i'd spooked ya ;)

06:38:23 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: I assume you are aware that Romania has a MLA treaty with the US

06:38:24 bitcoinpete: i had to hone my message, is all. still a lazy effort but alas

06:38:57 joecruel: antephialtic: i assume you are aware mircea is not currently in the channel

06:39:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62896897 = 1.2579 BTC [+]

06:39:17 antephialtic: joecruel: indeed.

06:39:25 bitcoinpete: benkay: it'll be your turn next time :)

06:39:29 moiety: gribbling ftw

06:40:04 joecruel: antephialtic: !later tell

06:40:11 joecruel: er ;; is the trigger in here

06:40:30 antephialtic: thanks

06:41:01 moiety: i have to ask every time which way round it goes lol

06:41:13 benkay: bitcoinpete: you're likely in a better position to more thoroughly dox me than mp already has

06:42:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 900 @ 0.00082311 = 0.7408 BTC [-] {4}

06:42:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00419804 = 2.099 BTC [-] {3}

06:42:22 benkay: anyways, cheerio

06:49:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.05300002 = 0.424 BTC [-] {2}

07:07:52 bitcoinpete: BingoBoingo: thanks for fixing that link

07:08:33 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: You're welcome.

07:09:09 dhenson: lol @ MP's exchange with the SEC.

07:09:16 dhenson: Hornets nest, meet stick.

07:11:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.06882051 = 0.8258 BTC [+] {10}

07:11:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05316725 = 0.1595 BTC [+] {2}

07:15:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1674 @ 0.00015915 = 0.2664 BTC [-] {2}

07:15:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 87 @ 0.00197917 = 0.1722 BTC [+]

07:17:58 moiety: BB!

07:18:14 moiety: how are you?

07:42:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61002 BTC [-]

07:46:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33000 @ 0.00080532 = 26.5756 BTC [+] {2}

07:53:14 antephialtic: dhenson: I'm worried for MP. Romania has a MLAT with the US. They can request romanian gov to compel MP to produce MPEx records

07:55:15 chetty: the title got me:

07:55:18 chetty: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/03/18/bitbeat-bitcoin-gets-shakespearean/

07:55:18 ozbot: BitBeat: Bitcoin Gets Shakespearean - MoneyBeat - WSJ

07:56:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00432793 = 0.2986 BTC [-] {4}

07:58:03 chetty: Bitcoiners are none too pleased with Warren Buffett, and one acolyte is putting his bitcoin where his mouth is.

07:59:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1916 @ 0.00080598 = 1.5443 BTC [+]

08:00:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6465 @ 0.00080685 = 5.2163 BTC [+]

08:15:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00080429 = 12.2654 BTC [-]

08:26:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9066 @ 0.00080685 = 7.3149 BTC [+]

08:31:57 Angusm3: anyone selling 0.1 bitcoin?

08:33:55 Angusm3: I'm buying 0.1 bitcoin for $65 CAD

08:34:48 KRS-1: Hey check it out Angusm3

08:34:50 KRS-1: .bait

08:34:51 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly9pe0IHB81qd819oo1_1280.jpg

08:35:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000001 = 0.35 BTC [-]

08:38:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10638 @ 0.00080685 = 8.5833 BTC [+]

08:45:14 kakobrekla: kako

08:45:20 kakobrekla: ah

08:45:21 kakobrekla: thats me.

08:46:45 dub: drop a sockie? :)

08:47:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26483 @ 0.00080425 = 21.299 BTC [-] {2}

08:51:43 moiety: i thought i'd fallen into otc for a minute

08:53:52 kakobrekla: naw, i grep chan for mentions who rang

08:54:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00080685 = 11.1749 BTC [+]

09:02:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47014 @ 0.00080288 = 37.7466 BTC [-] {2}

09:07:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1498 @ 0.00015996 = 0.2396 BTC [+]

09:08:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2820 @ 0.00015999 = 0.4512 BTC [+] {3}

09:09:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62 BTC [+]

09:13:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32050 @ 0.00080713 = 25.8685 BTC [+] {3}

09:16:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00080865 = 24.1382 BTC [+] {3}

09:19:02 Radi777: damn that girl wooo

09:28:05 KRS-1: .bait

09:28:07 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lja4483cgh1qhad33o1_1280.jpg

09:28:19 KRS-1: gross too manish for me

09:28:28 KRS-1: thats like a dude with boobs.

10:01:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05260503 = 0.1052 BTC [-] {2}

10:01:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06775 = 0.1355 BTC [-] {2}

10:01:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-] {2}

10:30:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31950 @ 0.00081001 = 25.8798 BTC [+] {2}

10:44:12 frenchie: nice talk with the sec

10:52:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00080906 = 9.2637 BTC [-]

10:52:43 HeySteve: uncompromising yet polite

10:58:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61001 BTC [-]

10:59:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.61 = 2.44 BTC [-]

11:01:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.6022004 = 6.022 BTC [-] {6}

11:27:24 LordPutin: i hope mp doesn't snitch on all of us to sec, i'm scared

11:30:02 HeySteve: SEC seems pretty toothless to rein in Wall Street

11:30:14 HeySteve: Chilton said as much

11:30:23 HeySteve: not sure they'll have much better luck with Bitcoin

11:30:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00081038 = 30.2677 BTC [+]

11:31:51 Apocalyptic: so some LordPutin is afraid of the SEC ?

11:32:06 Apocalyptic: sounds unlikely

11:32:29 LordPutin: they havea file on you as well dood

11:32:36 LordPutin: aren't you a bit scared?

11:32:41 Apocalyptic: totallt

11:32:46 Apocalyptic: *totally

11:38:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11067 @ 0.00081038 = 8.9685 BTC [+]

11:39:18 chetty: it just makes your irs file fatter

11:40:08 mircea_popescu: .d

11:40:08 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1010 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.2675% in 6d 8h 39m 28s

11:40:26 mircea_popescu: it is simply not belivable how tight these bets get.

11:42:47 only: wisdom of the crowd in action?

11:44:21 mircea_popescu: i see no other explanation.

11:46:00 mircea_popescu: "all the humanistic victories of Soviet socialism" oh save me rwanda. asciilifeform what the fuck is the gent on about.

11:49:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00432959 = 0.8659 BTC [+] {2}

11:51:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 828 @ 0.00432968 = 3.585 BTC [+] {2}

11:52:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 135 @ 0.00432982 = 0.5845 BTC [+] {3}

11:53:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 190 @ 0.00435 = 0.8265 BTC [+]

11:53:54 Izzy_: hello pa

11:54:07 Izzy_: rty people

11:56:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 395 @ 0.00438211 = 1.7309 BTC [+] {5}

11:57:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00081045 = 24.2325 BTC [+] {2}

11:57:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00439999 = 0.484 BTC [+]

11:59:02 mircea_popescu: hi.

12:09:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.02566335 = 0.7956 BTC [-] {6}

12:19:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14244 @ 0.00081072 = 11.5479 BTC [+] {2}

12:25:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 632 @ 0.00015998 = 0.1011 BTC [-]

12:30:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0008107 = 17.5922 BTC [-] {2}

12:36:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 75 @ 0.00596453 = 0.4473 BTC [-] {5}

12:49:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52518 @ 0.00081104 = 42.5942 BTC [+] {2}

12:49:59 thestringpuller: ;;calc (0.00082 - 0.00080328) / 0.00082

12:49:59 gribble: 0.0203902439024

13:03:31 Duffer1: https://www.kncminer.com/products/titan

13:09:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98850 @ 0.00081128 = 80.195 BTC [+] {3}

13:11:39 davout: x.eur wai u no volume?

13:12:16 mircea_popescu: davout tiny walls and erratic supply.

13:12:57 davout: mircea_popescu: tiny walls shouldn't really matter since if you place an order the mm bot will now trade against it

13:13:25 mircea_popescu: well how'd people know abotu this ?

13:13:27 davout: you'll get filled in bits of whatever its order size currently is

13:13:59 mircea_popescu: basically, sucess of a product - any product - is built out of predictable, dependable supply of good quality and some advertising.

13:14:04 mircea_popescu: which of the two have you been doing ?

13:14:34 davout: well, i'm now done with the former and getting busy with the latter right now

13:14:46 mircea_popescu: then ask again in a week or w/e :D

13:15:04 davout: two weeks, no volume, the mm must be running

13:18:43 mircea_popescu: $vwap x.eur

13:18:44 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 0.00212399 high: 0.00213452 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2081 btc: 4.42002826 30 day: average: 0.0020996 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7008 btc: 14.71400992

13:20:36 davout: let's see how this plays out

13:21:27 davout: basically my point is that the mm algo is now what i imagined it to be initially, so that it should work as everyone expects it

13:24:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00080917 = 31.8408 BTC [-] {2}

13:27:09 ninjashogun: hi - are you around, mircea_popescu?

13:32:46 mircea_popescu: davout cool beans.

13:35:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 203 @ 0.00417098 = 0.8467 BTC [-] {4}

13:36:41 nubbins`: huh, a guy from -otc has apparently been asked to appear on one of those pawn shop reality tv shows with his casascius coins

13:37:05 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Is that -otc guy you?

13:37:09 Neil: mircea_popescu> Neil wanna bet on that ? << Time lapse, no idea what you're referring to.

13:37:11 nubbins`: nah

13:37:19 nubbins`: some guy i've sold a bunch to

13:37:56 mircea_popescu: Neil something you said about no more diff jumps over 20%

13:37:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00417041 = 0.3336 BTC [-] {4}

13:38:51 Neil: mircea_popescu: Ah, absolutely. I intend to submit a bet soon but you or your stooges rejected my last one, so was waiting a while.

13:38:56 Neil: Quite happy to put money down

13:39:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 149 @ 0.0041704 = 0.6214 BTC [-] {3}

13:39:02 mircea_popescu: coolness.

13:39:53 Neil: In fact I consider 20% too safe; was gonna make it more interesting.

13:40:22 Neil: .d

13:40:23 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 992 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.7517% in 6d 5h 11m 16s

13:40:27 Neil: Lol.

13:41:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47100 @ 0.00081296 = 38.2904 BTC [+] {4}

13:41:05 mircea_popescu: the beauty of a functioning free market, which bitbet amply is by now, is that it really doesn't matter so much : whatever value you pick the odds will probably stack correctly.

13:41:37 Neil: Would be interesting to see a plot of, um, what? Implied odds vs time?

13:41:48 Neil: With final outcome?

13:42:12 Neil: There are some that just turn out to be flukes at the last moment (like the gox collapse in the last 2 weeks of the gox price > 150 bet)

13:42:41 mircea_popescu: there's a plot of that in every bet, that little rectangle.

13:42:49 blackwhite: morning

13:43:13 mircea_popescu: speaking of which :

13:43:22 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla how about expanding the histograph to fill the whole section ?

13:43:40 mircea_popescu: like instead of going to the right of Histograph: make it go under

13:44:00 mircea_popescu: 1.5ish as wide, about the same as tall as it is inow

13:44:16 Neil: b.t.w. I claim full credit for the 10% bet

13:44:39 mircea_popescu: a you put it in ?

13:44:43 Neil: Indeed

13:45:05 Apocalyptic: Neil, you bet on the Yes side I presume

13:45:22 mircea_popescu: judging by the addresses he bet on no

13:45:31 Neil: Well given the above info it's a matter of public record what my initial bet was. What happened thereafter is for you to guess and me to know.

13:45:40 mircea_popescu: amusingly, the mod stacked it 9/1, exactly opposite of the 1/11 the bettors stacked it.

13:45:41 mircea_popescu: insanity.

13:46:12 nubbins`: hmm

13:47:02 nubbins`: i'm trying to construct a reasonably sound bet on the price of s.mg, and i'm wondering if anyone has input on the conditions

13:47:17 nubbins`: i'm saying 2x par by <date>

13:47:39 mircea_popescu: why not make it explicit, 0.0002 by date

13:47:45 nubbins`: sure

13:47:53 nubbins`: the low volume presents a dilemma tho

13:48:05 mircea_popescu: vwap is vwap

13:48:09 mircea_popescu: $vwap s.mg

13:48:10 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868

13:48:18 mircea_popescu: 30day avg.

13:48:18 nubbins`: nod

13:48:27 nubbins`: that could work

13:48:39 mircea_popescu: course it'd depend on how far out

13:48:51 nubbins`: didn't want some bozo with a spare 20btc to just buy up and own the bet

13:49:05 nubbins`: is there a max limit to how far out? i was thinking april 1 2015

13:49:20 mircea_popescu: 1 year afair

13:49:28 nubbins`: nod

13:50:07 Neil: HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4=

13:50:18 nubbins`: trying to find a way to turn this warrant into something that generates money before it's cashed ;D

13:50:19 Neil: Signature of "Neil" with the payout addr of the 10% bet

13:51:30 mircea_popescu: how do those things even work ?

13:51:41 Neil: What things?

13:51:54 mircea_popescu: incidentally, people running bots : how about adding a command that will parse one of these sigsigned shits into human format ?

13:52:14 mircea_popescu: ;;sig HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4= -> string "string" signed by address "adress" on date "date"

13:52:14 gribble: Error: "sig" is not a valid command.

13:52:18 mircea_popescu: ikr?

13:52:35 nubbins`: hmm

13:52:44 Neil: Not sure re bots

13:53:04 mircea_popescu: would take some c/p from github, but why not ?

13:53:08 Apocalyptic: mircea, I believe the address nor the date is included in the sig, it's just a b64 ecoding of binary data

13:53:33 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic because the powerfully retarded rangers are retarded. that format is fucking useless.

13:53:43 mircea_popescu: but perhaps it could somehow be extended into utility ?

13:53:44 Apocalyptic: yes it kinda is

13:53:44 Neil: I think you need the signature, the message and the address. I doubt 2 of those 3 is enough for software

13:53:55 Neil: Not even sure it's possible without the actual public key. Is it?

13:54:07 mircea_popescu: i have no idea.

13:54:13 Neil: hehe

13:54:20 mircea_popescu: i've never read how sigsig is actually implemented in code.

13:54:29 BingoBoingo: I was under the impression the sig contained the unhashed Pub key of an address

13:54:38 kakobrekla: yes address is good enough, still need all 3

13:54:41 Neil: BingoBoingo: I suspect you're right

13:54:44 mircea_popescu: i thought so too

13:55:27 mircea_popescu: lol china accepts new zealand dollar convertibility ?!

13:55:41 mircea_popescu: are they intending to colonize that island or what.

13:56:23 Neil: mircea_popescu: Was amusing to read your 1-way conversation with the SEC. Did they respond beyond what you posted, or did it just go silent?

13:56:37 mircea_popescu: went silent.

13:56:40 mircea_popescu: which is why i posted.

13:56:45 mircea_popescu: two weeks is the term.

13:56:47 Neil: Cool, thought as much

13:57:00 Duffer1: they'd need more than just a request from a functionary in order for things to get more interesting

13:57:06 Neil: waxman had enough of being made the fool of

13:57:15 mircea_popescu: her job sucks,. for the record.

13:57:21 Duffer1: no doubt

13:57:29 mircea_popescu: she spent 100k / 10 years in school in order to find a shitty office job,

13:57:30 Neil: Well, that's her choice. My jobs sucks, so I quit

13:57:39 mircea_popescu: which requires her basically to try and get people to talk to her on the phone

13:57:43 mircea_popescu: and read a script to them.

13:58:00 Duffer1: <--available for that job

13:58:06 mircea_popescu: she's no different from the average indian girl, except the indian girl is 19 not 29

13:58:18 Neil: But given her intro, I'm sure she loved the effect that "enforcement office for the SEC" or whatever it was had on 90% of the plebs

13:58:21 mircea_popescu: so really, it sucks to be her in ways one doesn't really fathom

13:58:32 kakobrekla: free caek

13:58:35 kakobrekla: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67547.2640;topicseen

13:58:37 ozbot: Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock]

13:58:41 mircea_popescu: Neil so people think, but from what i know the bureaucrats rarely actually enjoy their job

13:58:56 Neil: mircea_popescu: I'm certain you're right.

13:59:12 Neil: But unluckily for them it's the best they've got, in most cases

13:59:15 mircea_popescu: if given the choice, this girl would have been doing something a little less retarded with her life.

13:59:23 mircea_popescu: however, she was born in the soviets.

13:59:29 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: I was about to post that, Mining Company can't operate shovels, sells shovels

13:59:38 kakobrekla: lel

14:00:04 kakobrekla: i already told them what they are figuring out now, half a year ago

14:00:13 kakobrekla: but, no slander.

14:00:16 BingoBoingo: Interesting to see how many alts Garr can manage for all of this shill bidding

14:00:17 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i have a quote for you somewhere

14:00:38 mircea_popescu: Quote from: kokonut on March 17, 2014, 10:02:54 AM

14:00:38 mircea_popescu: You are the sort of brainwashed halfwit who thinks the responsibility for the lost BTC of MtGOX customers lies with the customers, because "it's their fault for using MtGOX".

14:00:39 mircea_popescu: there.

14:00:47 mircea_popescu: brainwashed halfwit.

14:01:01 kakobrekla: heh

14:01:12 kakobrekla: i have nothing.

14:01:12 Neil: I hope the next 5 years makes joe blow aware of his level of brainwashing. But not holding my breath.

14:01:38 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.msg5781787#msg5781787

14:01:40 ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide

14:01:42 Neil: Yesterday had "exit interview" at bigcorp from which I resigned my shitty job.

14:02:02 Neil: As always, asked to sign "Confidentiality agreement". Turned up without said paper, amongst all the rest.

14:02:17 Neil: Usual game of "didn't we ask send you the papers".

14:02:42 Duffer1: they'll dick around with your severance if you don't sign that

14:02:44 Neil: "Yes". "But I'm not gonna sign it for you for the first time, given my history of not signing this shit". "Oh, OK."

14:02:48 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516308.0

14:02:50 ozbot: Possible Scammer - John K

14:02:59 nubbins`: neil, good for you

14:03:16 Neil: Duffer1: This company has no leverage at all! The previous one did, but still did nothing. It's all just lawyer crap.

14:03:35 Duffer1: good

14:03:38 Neil: Previous one had about $250k of restricted stock.

14:03:45 nubbins`: BingoBoingo again?!

14:04:06 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Well he was the escrow for so many shitty forum things

14:04:19 nubbins`: capital-E Escrow, even

14:04:44 mircea_popescu: namworld / jurov what's BingoBoingo;s link all about ?

14:04:57 Neil: That $250k went straight into BTC as soon as it could

14:05:04 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no but this happens to be connected, scrat;s runnig coinroll or something, afaik

14:05:33 BingoBoingo: Ah

14:05:54 jurov: well John K was holding 100btc escrow for coinroll raffle

14:06:00 BingoBoingo: This whole John K escrow thing just shows why Multisig is super bad

14:06:12 jurov: for purpose if Scrat was not available or whatever

14:06:23 mircea_popescu: aha ?

14:06:32 jurov: and indeed it happened, but John did not pay

14:06:46 mircea_popescu: what, just like that ?

14:06:52 jurov: and he's still silent even after Scrast told him to

14:07:01 mircea_popescu: nuts ?!

14:07:27 kakobrekla: yummy yummy btc.

14:11:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

14:12:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.06666024 = 0.6666 BTC [-] {4}

14:14:33 HeySteve: I had funds with JohnK during his long unexplained absence

14:14:45 HeySteve: I thought he made good with everyone, or is this a new episode?

14:14:58 mircea_popescu: new episode

14:15:07 kakobrekla: might be a season

14:15:34 BingoBoingo: http://deadspin.com/five-year-old-mutton-bustin-rider-eats-it-1546800351

14:15:34 ozbot: Five-Year-Old Mutton Bustin' Rider Eats It

14:15:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15711 @ 0.00080959 = 12.7195 BTC [-]

14:16:05 mircea_popescu: lol

14:16:41 Neil: I recall there was a John K scam accusation that lasted about 3 wks last September-ish, and went quiet in an unconvincing way.

14:16:45 Neil: So not surprised to see this now

14:18:39 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 440 @ 0.00223045 = 0.9814 BTC [+] {2}

14:18:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [-]

14:18:45 HeySteve: is there someone you guys would recommend to handle escrow?

14:19:03 mircea_popescu: HeySteve i have a few btc in escrow with salty spitoon atm

14:19:40 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 160 @ 0.00223045 = 0.3569 BTC [+]

14:20:29 mircea_popescu: $vwap x.eur

14:20:30 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: average: 0.00223045 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00223045 volume: 600 btc: 1.33827 7 day: average: 0.00214782 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2681 btc: 5.75829826 30 day: average: 0.00210992 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7608 btc: 16.05227992

14:20:38 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1/ 0.00223045

14:20:38 gribble: 448.340021072

14:20:41 nubbins`: i've done maybe 10btc worth of deals and escrow with salty

14:20:53 nubbins`: he's not on irc tho, forums only

14:21:11 HeySteve: ok thanks, will speak to salty next time

14:21:14 nubbins`: np

14:21:17 mircea_popescu: tell him to come on irc lol

14:21:22 nubbins`: i'd offer to escrow, but who am i, anyway? :D

14:22:00 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust nubbins`

14:22:01 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask nubbins`!~leel@stjhnf0148w-142134196038.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nl.bellaliant.net. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user nubbins`: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=nubbins%60 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins%60 | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013

14:22:09 nubbins`: oh, that's who!

14:22:12 mircea_popescu: not that bad.

14:22:27 HeySteve: ;;getrust nubbins`

14:22:28 gribble: Error: "getrust" is not a valid command.

14:22:42 nubbins`: you missed a T

14:22:43 HeySteve: I don't get output

14:22:51 HeySteve: ;;gettrust nubbins`

14:22:51 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask nubbins`!~leel@stjhnf0148w-142134196038.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nl.bellaliant.net. Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user nubbins`: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=HeySteve&dest=nubbins%60 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins%60 | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013

14:22:51 nubbins`: you typed get rust

14:22:56 nubbins`: and i'm not rusted ;(

14:22:56 mircea_popescu: lol get rust

14:23:04 HeySteve: ah ha... still not tho

14:23:32 Neil: mircea_popescu: Kinda surprised by your faith in WoT. I'm not on it, but have had many dealings with reputable "players". Not sure I believe anything on it, given the rep it assigned to "pirateat40" just before he "did the inevitable".

14:23:33 mircea_popescu: anduck went negative ? when did that happen ?

14:23:45 nubbins`: HeySteve: well, if you don't have a WoT identity, ;;gettrust isn't going to do anything for you :)

14:23:46 HeySteve: do I need to be registered for WoT?

14:23:47 mircea_popescu: Neil didja read mpoe-pr's discussion of that topic ?

14:23:48 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: scammorz

14:23:56 mircea_popescu: nubbins` seriously ? details ?

14:23:59 Neil: mircea_popescu: Maybe, maybe not.

14:24:09 nubbins`: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=anduck

14:24:10 ozbot: Rating Details for User 'anduck'

14:24:12 Neil: Read a lot of garbage. Signal-to-noise is tought.

14:24:14 Neil: tough

14:24:17 nubbins`: looks like a bunch of socks

14:24:31 nubbins`: (and rg)

14:24:33 mircea_popescu: a that's bs.

14:24:38 mircea_popescu: Neil https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110861.msg1227871#msg1227871

14:24:44 nubbins`: HeySteve: yep, you do

14:24:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 143 @ 0.00416001 = 0.5949 BTC [-]

14:24:46 mircea_popescu: it's a tool. it doesn't work by itself.

14:24:50 nubbins`: ;;rated anduck

14:24:50 gribble: You rated user anduck on Thu Nov 7 11:50:53 2013, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: patron of the arts.

14:25:03 mircea_popescu: lol

14:25:10 Daphna_A_Waxman_: hello all

14:25:13 Daphna_A_Waxman_: can you read this?

14:25:16 mircea_popescu: hello cam888

14:25:20 Apocalyptic: lol

14:25:21 mircea_popescu: oops i mean Daphna_A_Waxman_

14:25:22 nubbins`: and they say government grants are the only way to make a living in the arts.

14:25:23 Duffer1: ha

14:25:34 Daphna_A_Waxman_: Hi Mircea

14:25:50 Daphna_A_Waxman_: I'm not recording this conversation

14:25:59 Daphna_A_Waxman_: Anything we discuss is between you and I.

14:26:11 Daphna_A_Waxman_: I can promise you confidentiality.

14:26:12 mircea_popescu: that's nice, but this is a public channel and it is logged, as per the topic.

14:26:14 mircea_popescu: !topic

14:26:23 BingoBoingo: Daphna_A_Waxman_: Actually this channel is recorded and logged

14:26:23 kakobrekla: !topic

14:26:38 mircea_popescu: that aside, when did you get transferred to thailand ?

14:26:42 nubbins`: ^ HEH

14:26:43 kakobrekla: no u confuse me mp, its ;;

14:26:44 BingoBoingo: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com

14:26:45 kakobrekla: ;;topic

14:26:46 gribble: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com

14:26:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 387 @ 0.00416 = 1.6099 BTC [-]

14:26:59 mircea_popescu: spammors the lot of ye.

14:27:03 Daphna_A_Waxman_: I'm just here on a sex vacation.

14:27:16 HeySteve: story checks out

14:27:22 mircea_popescu: this is the wrong instagram.

14:27:24 Daphna_A_Waxman_: The girls in this country are amazing! They will do ANYTHING

14:27:24 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

14:28:17 mircea_popescu: anyway, 6/10.

14:28:41 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla GOT YOU :D

14:28:42 Neil: mircea_popescu: Yeah. Not sure if MP == MPOE, but yeah I realize most of that. I've felt it's not worth the effort (small group of people who know each other in real life has been enough so far) but I get the point, but not convinced yet.

14:28:47 nubbins`: HeySteve: /msg gribble help eregister is as good a place as any to stary

14:28:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 269 @ 0.0041103 = 1.1057 BTC [-] {2}

14:28:50 nubbins`: *start

14:29:06 mircea_popescu: Neil well whatever works, you know ?

14:29:19 Neil: Workage == low, it seems so far

14:29:21 mircea_popescu: but otherwise, the wot existed in other implementations every time small groups wanted to trade on a large scale.

14:29:22 HeySteve: thanks Nubbins, will do so. been meaning to check out the system for a while

14:29:38 mircea_popescu: basically you're telling me that you don't need a hansa seal because you only trade in novgorod

14:29:44 nubbins`: it's one of those things that behooves you to get straightened away sooner rather than later

14:29:51 HeySteve: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/04/eye_opener_porn_and_federal_wo.html

14:29:51 ozbot: Federal Eye

14:29:51 nubbins`: so don't wait too long ;D

14:29:53 mircea_popescu: good for you, but once you wish to send your kid to marry some chick in goteborg you damned straight will.

14:29:56 Neil: But for that reason I found it amusing you asking that waxman loser to get herself on WoT

14:30:14 HeySteve: SEC was fiddling while Rome burnt

14:30:43 LordPutin: i'm worried about sec is going to do to mp next :(

14:30:49 LordPutin: we need mp in the bitcoin community

14:31:15 Neil: bitcoin doesn't need a community or anything or anyone. That's why it rocks.

14:31:43 mircea_popescu: LordPutin i read somewhar on the forum that he's a dinosaur - well, at least when wearing heels - and will soon be superseded by some random forumer with opinions

14:31:46 mircea_popescu: so nothing to worry.

14:31:50 Neil: But there exists a bunch of interesting characters. That's undeniable.

14:31:58 LordPutin: oh i thought it was a girl

14:32:04 LordPutin: sounded like a girls name

14:32:32 nubbins`: i bet you think nikita is a girl's name, too

14:32:37 mircea_popescu: it is.

14:32:43 mircea_popescu: hruschev was a gal.

14:32:44 *: nubbins` cackles

14:32:50 mircea_popescu: full figured gal*

14:32:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00080828 = 36.6959 BTC [-] {3}

14:33:00 Neil: Eh? I work with a nikita. Convinced it's a dude.

14:33:02 Neil: Was I wrong?

14:33:12 nubbins`: what is "wrong", anyway?

14:33:16 Neil: lol

14:33:25 HeySteve: ok nubbins, I have a GPG key, will work through this

14:33:52 Shakespeare: "The Apaches were never defeated because they didn't fight in the open" well...

14:34:07 nubbins`: great. upload it to a keyserver, /msg gribble eregister heysteve <key id>, and you're off

14:34:25 nubbins`: oh, and keep your keys safe ;(

14:34:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61 BTC [+]

14:34:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 96 @ 0.00411 = 0.3946 BTC [-]

14:35:13 Shakespeare: United States of Apache

14:36:06 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/#comment-98572 <

14:36:06 ozbot: Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

14:36:13 mircea_popescu: updated with the pdf cause apparently ppls wanted it.

14:37:01 jurov: so you did not hear from them since?

14:37:23 nubbins`: dat inconsistent capitalization

14:37:42 mircea_popescu: nop.

14:37:43 mircea_popescu: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/04/eye_opener_porn_and_federal_wo.html

14:37:43 ozbot: Federal Eye

14:38:01 mircea_popescu: this is extremely lulzy, especially seeing how the girl claimed (and i believe her) tyhat she can't get on freenode.

14:38:09 Anduck: mircea_popescu: negbombers. gettrust matters

14:38:10 mircea_popescu: so on one hand, they can't do their jobs. on the other, jacking off all day anyway

14:38:14 LordPutin: maybe shes here now

14:38:16 mircea_popescu: Anduck aha.

14:38:19 *: LordPutin hides

14:39:12 Shakespeare: the pdf says itself the whole thing is voluntary

14:39:51 Duffer1: "This inquiry is non-public.."

14:40:18 only: Erik, quick, get a Romanian passport

14:40:44 asciilifeform: what's it take to get one of those, anyway ?

14:41:22 only: you need a Moldavian one, first, and you can actually buy one

14:42:01 Shakespeare: "In one instance, a regional office staff account admitted viewing pornography on his office computer and on his SEC-issued laptop while on official government travel. Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop’s hard drive, the report said."

14:42:10 Shakespeare: kinda sounds like he was hacked or sumth

14:42:28 nubbins`: Shakespeare: HER

14:42:31 nubbins`: :o

14:42:46 Shakespeare: "A senior attorney at SEC headquarters in Washington admitted he sometimes spent as much as eight hours viewing pornography from his office computer, according to the report. The attorney’s computer ran out of space for the downloaded images, so he started storing them on CDs and DVDs that he stored in his office."

14:42:47 Shakespeare: wow

14:42:50 nubbins`: "nearly 1,800 access denials"

14:42:51 nubbins`: imagine

14:43:10 nubbins`: "well, the last 1,799 times i've tried to load motherless, it's been blocked... maybe today is the day"

14:43:39 Shakespeare: "This stunning report should make everyone question the wisdom of moving forward with plans to give regulators like the SEC even more widespread authority," Issa said

14:44:16 Shakespeare: man these people consume mas porn

14:44:40 nubbins`: mucho mas

14:44:59 nubbins`: (with a shout-out to pynchon)

14:45:48 LordPutin: why are theyso interested in s.diceanyway, was the sale illegal?

14:46:15 asciilifeform: for dekulakization, most likely.

14:46:16 Shakespeare: well as i understand it, most SEC investigations are a reaction

14:46:22 Shakespeare: so likely someone filed a complain

14:46:23 Shakespeare: t

14:46:29 LordPutin: ahh ok

14:46:34 LordPutin: makes sense

14:47:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [7C] 50 @ 0.00284602 = 0.1423 BTC [-]

14:47:24 Shakespeare: if i had to guess, it'd be someone who either felt gypped by his offering of the added tranches, and/or someone that felt gypped by the closing settlement

14:47:58 nubbins`: my mother is a gypsy, you insensitive clod

14:48:02 Duffer1: or the IRS just looking for its pound of flesh

14:48:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.601 BTC [-]

14:48:09 LordPutin: id sayitsthesecond one

14:48:19 Shakespeare: well at least her people stole a verb outta the deal

14:49:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00596183 = 0.5962 BTC [-] {4}

14:50:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.08001 = 0.8001 BTC [-] {2}

14:50:22 Neil: "Trapped in the indecision of another fine menu". Love it

14:51:39 HeySteve: hey nubbins, I made a new cert and put the revoke on an encrypted volume. any idea where GPG places the cert itself in Windows?

14:52:05 nubbins`: you can export your private key pretty easily via command line

14:52:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.02125914 = 0.2126 BTC [-] {4}

14:52:36 HeySteve: ok but I want to place the original in the encrypted volume so no one can access it (easily)

14:53:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.01600027 = 0.32 BTC [-] {2}

14:53:18 HeySteve: or is that stored within GPG somehow and not accessible? still pretty new at this stuff

14:53:19 nubbins`: nod. no idea where it's stored right now, but export spits it out as plaintext

14:53:33 nubbins`: which you can then copy, paste into a text file on your encrypted whatever

14:54:06 only: or a buthurt gambler, perhaps?

14:54:12 HeySteve: I see, should probably work out if there's another copy just hanging around on the HD

14:54:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18078 @ 0.00080959 = 14.6358 BTC [+]

14:55:11 nubbins`: probably, but it's encrypted with your impossibly long, difficult to guess passphrase

14:55:27 nubbins`: gpg --export-secret-key -a "username"

14:55:37 nubbins`: try that

14:56:29 nubbins`: gpg --export-secret-key -a "username" --output privatekey.asc

14:58:33 HeySteve: ok thanks

14:58:48 nubbins`: it'd be prudent to try restoring these keys on another machine, as well

14:59:09 nubbins`: what's the usefulness of a backup you can't restore, etc

15:00:45 Shakespeare: "The Fed has been targeting a 6.5% unemployment rate as a gauge to start discussing when to raise interest rates. But several Fed officials have said they don’t find the jobless rate reference useful now that the rate, at 6.7% in February, is near the 6.5% threshold."

15:01:41 Ghaleon: 2Mircea <- one tuff dude!

15:01:51 Ghaleon: Daphne is sweatin!!

15:02:20 Shakespeare: https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.0/README.txt

15:02:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 63 @ 0.00181043 = 0.1141 BTC [-] {11}

15:03:25 Shakespeare: Fork in 3... 2...

15:03:57 Neil: .d

15:03:57 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 977 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.4696% in 6d 1h 37m 20s

15:04:03 Neil: hah

15:06:09 HeySteve: I can get it to display the key but not output to a file for some reason

15:06:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.05427484 = 1.0855 BTC [+] {6}

15:06:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00080973 = 16.4375 BTC [+] {2}

15:06:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0666 = 0.4662 BTC [-]

15:07:01 HeySteve: you have to put the output switch upfront is all

15:07:05 HeySteve: dir

15:07:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05438232 = 0.9245 BTC [+] {5}

15:08:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 14 @ 0.05558566 = 0.7782 BTC [+] {12}

15:08:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

15:09:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05685 = 0.1137 BTC [+] {2}

15:09:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06583333 = 0.1975 BTC [-] {3}

15:09:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

15:10:10 Shakespeare: yknow who needs to be jailed, the Domain Registry of America people

15:10:44 Shakespeare: they send snailmail to clients all the time as what appears to be a renewal bill

15:10:55 Shakespeare: but really it's just a trick

15:14:07 Neil: "The Fed has been targeting a 6.5%..." Joke? Like they think they can target anything? The world gets on witih it, they sit there observing.

15:14:15 Apocalyptic: ^

15:15:53 artifexd: I put my gpg key id on my website. Should I link it to a plain text file of the key or to its location on a key server?

15:17:36 mircea_popescu: "Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop?s hard drive, the report said." << HER drive ?!

15:17:46 mircea_popescu: and people say women don't watch pronz.

15:18:06 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare this will be nice data for when people start bitching about .bait

15:18:16 the20year1: any more news from teh SEC?

15:18:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 42 @ 0.0056706 = 0.2382 BTC [-] {3}

15:19:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

15:19:44 Shakespeare: .bait

15:19:45 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/avatar_eeeea3db0bc8_512.png

15:19:57 Shakespeare: ew

15:20:06 Apocalyptic: artifexd, you could do both

15:20:11 BingoBoingo: .bait

15:20:12 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m32bcx3aHO1qi9yn5o1_500.jpg

15:20:15 mircea_popescu: Ghaleon ello.

15:20:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]

15:20:59 Apocalyptic: artifexd, but I would rather go for the plain text file I think

15:21:56 mircea_popescu: "The new behavior of `walletpassphrase` is to set a new unlock time overriding

15:21:56 mircea_popescu: the old one:"

15:21:59 mircea_popescu: this is so fucking stupid.

15:22:02 mircea_popescu: who did that!

15:22:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42595 @ 0.00081027 = 34.5135 BTC [+]

15:22:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

15:22:45 artifexd: Apocalyptic Thank you for your opinion.

15:23:12 Ghaleon: Hi Mircea

15:23:18 Ghaleon: you kicked serious ass brother

15:23:23 Ghaleon: the writing was also excellent

15:23:32 Ghaleon: Ms. Waxman was shocked I am sure

15:23:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0551034 = 0.1653 BTC [+] {3}

15:23:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.065 = 0.195 BTC [-] {3}

15:23:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-] {3}

15:23:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00081344 = 14.8046 BTC [+]

15:23:51 Ghaleon: telling a Sec investigator to find you on IRC..... that will go down in history

15:23:52 mircea_popescu: cheers.

15:24:08 mircea_popescu: i tell that to everyone, what. people gotta get with the times.

15:24:11 Ghaleon: imagine Ben Bernanke pops up here

15:24:15 Ghaleon: lol

15:24:19 kakobrekla: he will get banned

15:24:23 mod6: lol

15:24:24 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla whai

15:24:30 kakobrekla: spamming usd

15:24:33 kakobrekla: fuck dat

15:24:33 Ghaleon: lolz

15:24:37 mircea_popescu: first pankkake stoled his coin, nao you ban him ?

15:25:19 kakobrekla: no spam policy is strict

15:26:16 Ghaleon: without Spamming Ben will fade away... the boy must spam to sustain himself

15:26:53 nubbins`: $vwap s.mg

15:26:54 mpexbot: nubbins`: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868

15:27:15 kakobrekla: anyway

15:27:17 JessicaS: hi

15:27:18 kakobrekla: ben is out of the picture

15:27:31 nubbins`: wow, 6k btc volume today

15:27:36 kakobrekla: he is irrelevant

15:27:55 Ghaleon: yeah but Ben still has the US NAVY in his pocket

15:28:00 Shakespeare: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/19/bitcoin-danish-national-bank

15:28:01 ozbot: Bitcoins are like 'glass beads', warns Danish national bank | Technology | theguardian.com

15:28:02 kakobrekla: so discussion about baning him is fruitless

15:28:22 Ghaleon: it is a battle of inches folks. we are making awesome ground. a peoples currency will remove their main pillar of control

15:28:36 BingoBoingo: O.o Interesting bet http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-/

15:28:52 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla what if he comes here for his retirement

15:29:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you made that ?

15:29:24 kakobrekla: what if we dont play what if!

15:29:33 Shakespeare: lol

15:29:38 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course

15:30:01 mircea_popescu: i guess ima put a little on no, hedge this properly.

15:31:05 BingoBoingo: Wonder if it will turn into a 1000 BTC+ nailbiter near the end

15:32:17 Shakespeare: "UK's new 12-sided £1 said to be the world's most secure coin"

15:32:29 Shakespeare: more sides = more security

15:32:38 Apocalyptic: many sides, such secure

15:32:41 Apocalyptic: seriously

15:32:57 kakobrekla: 12 sided coin?

15:33:08 kakobrekla: you mean its not round?

15:33:24 Shakespeare: well it's low-resolution round

15:33:35 Shakespeare: 12bit gfx

15:33:51 HeySteve: ;;gpg info HeySteve

15:33:51 gribble: User 'HeySteve', with keyid F8E87076CA58441F, fingerprint B14929A9933420C966FB409EF8E87076CA58441F, and bitcoin address None, registered on Wed Mar 19 11:30:37 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=HeySteve . Currently authenticated from hostmask HeySteve!HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve .

15:33:53 kakobrekla: how does that make for security

15:33:55 mircea_popescu: low resolution round hahaha

15:34:01 kakobrekla: i thought the great invetion was the wheel

15:34:02 mircea_popescu: anywyaq, they had those before, the half quid iirc

15:34:05 kakobrekla: not the square

15:34:09 kakobrekla: or the box

15:34:10 kakobrekla: or whatever

15:34:13 kakobrekla: rectangle

15:34:57 Shakespeare: Reverend Jesse Jackson calls out Silicon Valley for lack of racial and gender diversity

15:34:58 Shakespeare: sigh

15:35:26 kakobrekla: you only have 4 genders there? UNACEPTABRU

15:36:05 Shakespeare: must import katecraig to reach homeostasis

15:36:13 LordPutin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDLwu4E35us

15:36:13 ozbot: Putin: Crimea similar to Kosovo, West is rewriting its own rule book (FULL SPEECH) - YouTube

15:36:26 mircea_popescu: homeostahahahaha

15:36:29 LordPutin: so true

15:36:33 Shakespeare: :)

15:36:43 mircea_popescu: LordPutin his mistake is to call it "the west"

15:36:52 mircea_popescu: he should simply speak of the us, drive the eu wedge all the way.

15:36:53 LordPutin: great speech

15:36:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06649992 = 0.1995 BTC [+] {3}

15:37:03 LordPutin: good point mircea

15:37:22 mircea_popescu: already the traitorous bunch (italy, france, etc)

15:37:26 mircea_popescu: are looking for an exit of ignorance

15:37:43 mircea_popescu: ("i didn't cheat on you honey, the us forced me me!!1 I was duped, and raped!! ")

15:37:49 LordPutin: Putin should just be the president of europe

15:37:51 HeySteve: ;;gettrust HeySteve

15:37:51 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask HeySteve!HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve. Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user HeySteve: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=HeySteve&dest=HeySteve | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=HeySteve | Rated since: never

15:38:46 nubbins`: does bitbet explicitly state that it uses UTC, or should a bet itself make note of this?

15:38:52 LordPutin: 20mins in he starts talkign about the us

15:38:57 LordPutin: andhe's spot on

15:39:04 mircea_popescu: gmt, in faq

15:39:06 Ghaleon: Putin = THE MAN

15:39:09 nubbins`: ok

15:39:19 Shakespeare: http://www.picshag.com/pics/092009/computers-are-racist.jpg

15:39:19 Ghaleon: Mircea, good point about driving a wedge between ruope and the usa

15:39:54 Ghaleon: Europe sees how cool and fair Putin is... people r getting sick of the usa's meddling and hypocrisy

15:39:54 LordPutin: i'm going to name my kid putin because i want him to grow up strong and handsome

15:40:04 LordPutin: very true ghaleon

15:40:15 mircea_popescu: Ghaleon no, more like europe doesn't give a shit and needs the gas.

15:40:27 mircea_popescu: "man faces a felony charge after he was arrested by police at a township board meeting when he refused to stop talking past a three-minute time limit for public comment. "

15:40:29 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ^

15:40:40 nubbins`: wow

15:40:40 BingoBoingo: Lol

15:40:46 mircea_popescu: i guess asciilifeform ^ too

15:40:52 nubbins`: man can no longer vote after speaking for 181 seconds

15:40:53 mircea_popescu: the soviets never did this, even.

15:40:57 BingoBoingo: Wasn't me this time

15:41:08 BingoBoingo: Allegedly

15:41:25 BingoBoingo: Eh, I voted yesterday anyways

15:42:02 Ghaleon: we are going thru our Boleshevik revolution now here in the usa

15:42:02 thestringpuller: ;;ud you heard?

15:42:03 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you%20heard | A subsitute for 'y'know, often heard in jails or prison uttered by uneducated inmates during conversation between cells. Can be used to validate th...

15:42:04 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: you heard

15:42:09 LordPutin: .putinbait

15:42:12 LordPutin: http://www.awsm.com/img/2010/vladimir-putin-riding-bear.jpg

15:42:32 nubbins`: "For this bet to resolve as YES, 30-day VWAP of S.MG must be above 0.0002 on MPEx on October 1, 2014." << thoughts? seem simple enough?

15:43:25 Shakespeare: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/217065/fox-news-affiliate-accidentally-broadcasts-dick-pic/

15:43:26 mircea_popescu: on mpex is spurious

15:43:46 mike_c_z: you specifically want "on"? not "on or before"?

15:43:47 nubbins`: don't want some schmo arguing about havelock PT

15:43:59 mircea_popescu: "This is shocking, because nobody in the world has ever seen a penis before. Life as we know it will never be the same."

15:44:02 BingoBoingo: ;; ud poopsterbate

15:44:03 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poopsterbate | Apr 30, 2005 ... I heard Mark poopsterbating on the toilet last night. Andy enjoys to poopsterbate. "Want to watch me poosterbate?" Stephen asked. by ShawnB ...

15:44:03 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: poopsterbate

15:44:05 mircea_popescu: especially those two broads.

15:44:17 Shakespeare: they were only prparing

15:44:20 Shakespeare: not surprised

15:44:26 Shakespeare: open wide!

15:44:27 nubbins`: mike_c_z: specifically on october 1, yep

15:44:40 mircea_popescu: kik

15:44:49 nubbins`: i don't want to have to be constantly checking it

15:44:59 mircea_popescu: ;;estimate

15:45:10 gribble: Next difficulty estimate | None based on data since last change | 4616703922.4 based on data for last three days

15:45:18 mircea_popescu: uh

15:45:25 mircea_popescu: ;;diff

15:45:25 gribble: 4.2502179198695354E9

15:46:45 Apocalyptic: .d

15:46:46 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 975 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.0906% in 6d 2h 4m 7s

15:47:13 mircea_popescu: nuts.

15:47:23 Shakespeare: Auto dealers fire back at Tesla CEO: 'This Musk guy, he wants all the profits for himself'

15:47:27 Shakespeare: ...

15:47:44 mircea_popescu: "for his own car"

15:48:12 BingoBoingo: Putin might have some competition http://sploid.gizmodo.com/watch-the-chinese-air-force-bombing-the-yellow-river-to-1547130234

15:48:46 Shakespeare: "They wanted to go direct, which means no sales force. That’s cutting out a lot of people. No way that’s gonna fly."

15:48:50 Shakespeare: i just dont get it

15:49:01 mircea_popescu: it's new york.

15:49:05 mircea_popescu: this is what they do.

15:49:09 mike_c_z: "During negotiations Musk left the auto dealers waiting for two hours while he checked with his manager"

15:49:29 mircea_popescu: they figure they're worth something on the grounds they exist.

15:50:14 Shakespeare: makes me want a Tesla, really

15:50:23 Shakespeare: i dont drive enough to care though

15:51:20 sheldonthomas: hi. are havelock investment questions relevant in this channel

15:51:57 nubbins`: sure

15:52:47 sheldonthomas: in the neobee prospectus it says "LMB Holdings, nor any employee, affiliate, or consultant are liable for any losses caused by default, theft, exploitation, manipulation, “hacking”, or software errors within the host exchange."

15:52:56 jurov: only havelock staff is not here

15:52:57 sheldonthomas: shouldn't that be are _not_ liable

15:53:01 sheldonthomas: i see

15:53:02 sheldonthomas: well

15:53:06 nubbins`: heh

15:53:10 nubbins`: yep, that's poor wording

15:53:14 sheldonthomas: there's a typo in the prospectus

15:53:14 sheldonthomas: ok

15:53:16 sheldonthomas: just checking, thanks

15:53:26 nubbins`: guess they forgot the "Neither"

15:53:37 jurov: sheldonthomas you plan to exploit it?

15:53:41 nubbins`: proofreading is important

15:53:50 nubbins`: too bad nobody bothers

15:54:12 mike_c: ;;seen topace

15:54:12 gribble: topace was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <topace> ^ you'll have to contact support

15:54:13 sheldonthomas: no exploit -- but i must admit, that's a surefire way to turn off a prospective investor

15:55:01 jurov: mike_c: topace isn't the staff for several months already

15:55:03 kakobrekla: i thought it would turn you on

15:55:11 kakobrekla: whut

15:55:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10805 @ 0.00081333 = 8.788 BTC [-]

15:55:22 mike_c: well, he's still staff. just not owner.

15:55:22 kakobrekla: topace is not hl anymo?

15:55:23 mircea_popescu: sheldonthomas they're experts with actual lawyers and everything, not some random clueless kids without an education

15:55:37 mircea_popescu: as a result their contracts say exactly what they mean : LMB is responsible for any havelock theft etc

15:55:43 Apocalyptic: kako, allegedly

15:55:46 mircea_popescu: both as an entity as well as all its principals etc.

15:55:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` there's no sauch thing as poor wording in a contracxt.

15:56:03 mircea_popescu: what it says is what is.

15:56:17 jurov: kakobrekla even if he still is, he defers everything to panamanians

15:56:19 kakobrekla: but a kiss is not a contract

15:56:22 sheldonthomas: at mircea that's very enlightening thanks for the clarification

15:56:24 kakobrekla: i mean prospectus, not kiss.

15:56:31 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla he claims he's no longer involved, quite transparently fraudulently.

15:56:46 kakobrekla: where did he claim that

15:56:52 Apocalyptic: here

15:56:53 mike_c: he claims he is technical side only

15:56:54 mircea_popescu: it's in this log actually.

15:57:05 kakobrekla: fuckin noobs not reading the log, i hate those

15:57:08 mircea_popescu: ikr?

15:57:14 mircea_popescu: some people got a dayjob, yo!

15:57:22 kakobrekla: hehe

15:57:22 mircea_popescu: can't hang out here all day watching KRS-1's pron

15:57:53 topace: hi

15:57:57 sheldonthomas: mircea_popescu but upon further thought the sentence still doesn't make sense because of "nor" in the context of making an action-positive statement

15:58:11 mircea_popescu: so they added a spurious n. typo.

15:58:14 topace: i am indeed no longer involved with the BUSINESS side of havelock

15:58:17 kakobrekla: topace is there an official statement re you and hl

15:58:19 topace: but i am still involved in the technical side

15:58:34 topace: since many months

15:58:37 Shakespeare: the wording has been updated for clarification

15:58:50 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare one can "update" contracts nao ?!

15:58:54 mircea_popescu: what is this, like gigavps ?

15:59:02 kakobrekla: Shakespeare you are with neobee?

15:59:12 sheldonthomas: it needs the word "Neither" at the beginning or to not use the word "nor" at all

15:59:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.34873140 BTC to 3`970 shares, 59162 satoshi per share

15:59:19 kakobrekla: a prospectus is not a contract ?

15:59:21 topace: November 1, 2013 officially the operation of havelock was handed off to the panama fund s.a.

15:59:25 ThickAsThieves: nor has been removed

15:59:38 jurov: topace, can't you make them man the irc? so that they aren't so outrageously clueless?

15:59:56 mircea_popescu: jurov empty virtual offices can not man irc.

16:00:16 nubbins`: "19-03-2014 Pending Mark Karpeles, Mt. Gox CEO, to be Murdered or Imprisoned"

16:00:22 nubbins`: well that reads like a badbet

16:00:51 kakobrekla: its a pass the bomb kinda thing, nefario and ukyo failed on that

16:01:06 LordPutin: lol approve plz

16:01:15 jurov: mircea in the process of coiroll listing, we are interacting with some virtual entities that seem too stupid to be completely virtual

16:01:16 kakobrekla: btctc tried since get go

16:01:20 asciilifeform: gasenwagenbait.

16:01:21 kakobrekla: nobody took a bite

16:01:34 mircea_popescu: jurov lmao i see

16:01:44 topace: no, i cant make them "man the irc"

16:02:01 mircea_popescu: or exist, for that matter.

16:02:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] [PAID] 1.99112370 BTC to 13`595 shares, 14646 satoshi per share

16:02:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]

16:02:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0542 = 0.542 BTC [-] {4}

16:02:27 topace: the offices are real, feel free to visit them in panama, several community members already have

16:02:35 mircea_popescu: or, in the immortal words of costanza,

16:02:36 mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Or we don't even send the check and then when they call, we pretend we're the cleaning service. Heh heh. "Hello? I sorry, no here Kruger."

16:02:39 kakobrekla: theres a po box and everything

16:03:15 jcpham: confirmed legit

16:03:29 jcpham: google map'd it bro

16:03:50 kakobrekla: i was there, saw him do it

16:04:24 LordPutin: please allow that Mark Karpelas bet to happen

16:05:55 kakobrekla: i dun think it fits the rules

16:07:01 nubbins`: ^

16:07:09 nubbins`: putting out a murder-for-hire does indeed break the rules

16:07:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05559995 = 0.1112 BTC [+] {2}

16:08:51 LordPutin: or imprisoned

16:09:09 asciilifeform: imprisonment-for-hire ?

16:09:13 mircea_popescu: lol

16:09:17 jcpham: i already dialed 911 and reported the chat

16:09:24 jcpham: everyone stay calm

16:09:25 mircea_popescu: there's exactly 0 way he can end up in jail this year.

16:09:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00449839 = 0.2249 BTC [-] {4}

16:09:37 mircea_popescu: this will be argued in court for a while

16:10:13 kakobrekla: i would have thrown myself outta window

16:10:18 kakobrekla: in his shoes

16:10:35 kakobrekla: prolly even before starting gox

16:10:40 asciilifeform: speaking of which,

16:10:41 asciilifeform: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-18/28-year-old-former-jpmorgan-banker-jumps-his-death-latest-series-recent-suicides

16:10:43 ozbot: 28-Year Old Former JPMorgan Banker Jumps To His Death, Latest In Series Of Recent Suicides | Zero He

16:10:52 asciilifeform: 'street pizza.'

16:11:00 kakobrekla: cool

16:11:03 LordPutin: i would like to see a bitbet that australia wontwin a single group match for the world cup this year

16:11:07 LordPutin: not sure how to word it tho

16:11:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05435 = 0.1087 BTC [-] {2}

16:11:40 jurov: don't forget to include which sport it is

16:11:50 nubbins`: streetza

16:13:04 only: asciilifeform: isn't 28 a bit kindof early?

16:13:26 mircea_popescu: $vwap X.IDIFF.MAR

16:13:28 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.MAR 1 day: no data 7 day: no data 30 day: average: 0.00294764 high: 0.003 low: 0.00290837 volume: 350 btc: 1.031674

16:13:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

16:13:41 nubbins`: zerohedge sure does know how to make a comment thread easy to read

16:13:59 nubbins`: i find i digest information most easily when it's crammed into a fuckin one-inch column

16:14:20 jurov: mircea_popescu: you already liquidating it? just got something

16:14:37 mircea_popescu: jurov yup preparing announcement

16:14:49 mircea_popescu: nubbins` word.

16:14:59 mircea_popescu: goes in and out of ass easier that way

16:15:03 nubbins`: heh.

16:15:22 nubbins`: "reader comments: now easier than ever to pass"

16:15:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06729989 = 0.3365 BTC [+] {4}

16:15:58 ThickAsThieves: http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/18/5523262/insect-evolves-to-eat-poisonous-corn

16:15:59 ozbot: The hunter becomes the hunted: insect evolves to eat poisonous corn | The Verge

16:16:17 ThickAsThieves: a friend of mine actually is one of the scientists working on these kind bug killers

16:16:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74537 @ 0.00080863 = 60.2729 BTC [-] {3}

16:16:58 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: you ever get your mp-as-hitler portrait sorted after?

16:17:13 mircea_popescu: haven't received it yet.

16:17:18 mircea_popescu: end of month was deadline iirc ?

16:17:23 nubbins`: can't recall

16:17:41 nubbins`: thestringpuller was commissioning a portrait of you for the conference, but he sat on his hands too long and it won't be ready

16:17:46 nubbins`: shame, it was gonna be pretty sick

16:17:54 nubbins`: mp as napoleon ;0

16:17:58 mircea_popescu: afaik he's not actuallyt comin so prolly why

16:18:43 nubbins`: there's sketches somewhere

16:19:25 nubbins`: was gonna be a cross between the picture of you squinting in the desert and this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Napoleon4.jpg

16:21:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.06981818 = 0.768 BTC [-] {4}

16:21:52 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/xidiffmar-has-settled/

16:21:53 ozbot: X.IDIFF.MAR has settled. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

16:23:25 kakobrekla: oh wow.

16:23:37 mircea_popescu: nubbins` not exactly a novel idea http://fraudsters.com/2011/arogante-ngrozitoare/

16:23:52 nubbins`: HEH.

16:24:16 ThickAsThieves: "I see myself forced to conclude the contract is not well understood by market participants, which is a problem that will have to be addressed."

16:24:24 kakobrekla: faggot pants

16:24:30 ThickAsThieves: you could always improve the design

16:24:37 jurov: ^ yes, i'm very curious how circumspectly is mp gonna fix it

16:24:54 ThickAsThieves: obv jurov and i have beat this horse enough though

16:25:11 jurov: *haven't

16:25:11 kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves you mean the css?

16:25:20 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the design ?! of the contract ?

16:25:28 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu make it bold

16:25:30 kakobrekla: and italics

16:25:42 ThickAsThieves: yeah surely that's what i meant

16:25:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.0008128 = 31.0083 BTC [+] {3}

16:25:45 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i thought we could just show up in romania on the 17th and just listen to what people had to say

16:25:49 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla my faggot pants are more css than yours :D

16:25:56 ThickAsThieves: i mean the design of the instrument

16:25:56 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there was no official registration except for VIP's

16:26:08 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller mebbe, on some days.

16:26:15 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves specifically ?

16:26:38 jurov: mircea you refused several times to publish the cumulative cover

16:26:49 jurov: so that it would be clear to everyone how much it is

16:26:53 jurov: that's all

16:26:58 ThickAsThieves: well i havent thought much on recently, but you could publish what it actually is

16:27:02 ThickAsThieves: or, not cap it

16:27:17 mircea_popescu: but it was clear to everyone that 2.9x times previous cover would be a top limit i would imagine

16:27:28 mike_c: the contract was understood by whoever sold contracts above the limit :)

16:27:34 ThickAsThieves: you imagined wrong, you said as much already

16:27:34 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so i don't cap it. you come to make a contract, have to deposit infinity btc.

16:27:37 thestringpuller: nubbins`: we can still go further with it how bout I send you more btc rite nao?

16:27:39 jurov: or 2.9*2.9*previous, or whatever

16:27:42 mike_c: so probably half the participants understood

16:27:52 mircea_popescu: mike_c well sure.

16:27:57 ThickAsThieves: is this different that not capping options?

16:28:02 ThickAsThieves: than*

16:28:13 mircea_popescu: yes.

16:28:21 mircea_popescu: options are settled in btc. this is not settled in hashes.

16:28:33 mircea_popescu: if there existed a way to physically deliver we wouldn't have this problem at all.

16:28:37 mircea_popescu: but there's no way to meter hash.

16:28:43 ThickAsThieves: hashes represent the USD rate

16:28:47 ThickAsThieves: not the settlement

16:28:53 ThickAsThieves: in my comparison

16:29:06 mircea_popescu: you'll have to formalise that.

16:29:24 mircea_popescu: x.idiff is hash->btc ; o.usd is usd->btc

16:29:26 nubbins`: thestringpuller: sure, whatever works for you

16:29:29 thestringpuller: how would physical delivery keep you from having to deliver infinite usd?

16:29:47 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller because you could sell 1trn hashes per contract or somesuch.

16:29:48 kakobrekla: but infinite usd is not impossible

16:29:55 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:30:01 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla it is nao, since you booted bernanke

16:30:13 mike_c: i don't see the problem. 350 contracts sold over the last 30 days by someone who didn't understand. so they lost .1 btc and now they understand.

16:30:27 kakobrekla: cant be booted if one doesnt join in the first place

16:30:29 mike_c: everyone else understood, and didn't trade.

16:30:37 thestringpuller: infinity is not finite, it's unreachable someone might as well physically deliver you a printer

16:30:39 ThickAsThieves: the "problem" is not a problem in that sense

16:30:40 thestringpuller: or a fed print shop

16:30:45 BingoBoingo: Maybe being Satoshi was Bernake's way of hating his day job

16:30:51 ThickAsThieves: it is more an issue of optimizing the product

16:30:56 ThickAsThieves: to increase usage

16:30:57 mircea_popescu: mike_c i guess so. was it actually one party doing it ?

16:31:18 ThickAsThieves: assuming the goal is for action to occur on mpex

16:31:24 mike_c: there were only a few bids up above the cap. the seller was likely probably one person :)

16:31:47 ThickAsThieves: there's certainly more market to be had

16:31:57 ThickAsThieves: look at bitbets

16:32:05 ThickAsThieves: and these deprived schemes

16:32:13 ThickAsThieves: B.SELL etc

16:32:37 mircea_popescu: surely.

16:32:58 ThickAsThieves: so you can cling to the current design and blame the user

16:33:09 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014#b3

16:33:13 ThickAsThieves: or you can accept that you do have power over the design

16:33:22 ThickAsThieves: and seize teh day

16:33:24 mircea_popescu: power over the design i have, but over reality i do not.

16:34:00 ThickAsThieves: so allow ability for writer to publisj the cap

16:34:06 ThickAsThieves: jurov solved this issue long ago

16:34:35 mike_c: so the suggestion is contracts with different caps?

16:34:37 ThickAsThieves: you could even have multiple listings, like options

16:34:41 ThickAsThieves: all with different caps

16:34:44 mircea_popescu: derp.

16:34:52 mircea_popescu: contracts with different caps are different contracts.

16:34:53 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I imagine that could be one of the happiest Bitcoins you could ever part with

16:35:01 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you guessed it sister :D

16:35:02 benkay: a man once spoke to me about explicit collateralization of options.

16:35:16 benkay: i informed him it'd make for a downright wacky marketplace.

16:35:29 benkay: on the topic of non-sentient-beings: http://amultiverse.com/comic/2010/07/19/sentient-gardens/

16:36:54 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I know the benkay and bitcoinpete readings of the emails are that the SEC will crash into you. I like to think that decoding your last email has been assigned to a few committees and all of the summer interns

16:38:11 ThickAsThieves: i wonder how badly they even want to bother with sorting you out

16:39:21 benkay: if he straight up ignored the girl she'd probably go bonkers

16:39:27 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Well if they are reading the logs, I would be happy to sort them out with the GPG and registering with the WoT

16:39:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37704 @ 0.00080693 = 30.4245 BTC [-] {3}

16:42:46 midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: that's hilarious. :-) Thank you for sharing with us your SEC interaction; I hope you continue to do so. For what it's worth, I am being sincere.

16:43:05 benkay: https://github.com/pierce403/keyhunter

16:43:48 mike_c: ;;calc e ** (log(2.9)/6)

16:43:48 gribble: 1.19417048496

16:44:07 mike_c: if difficulty increases stay this low, cap won't be a problem

16:45:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00080665 = 19.8436 BTC [-] {2}

16:49:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.054 = 0.108 BTC [-]

16:51:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00081406 = 31.5448 BTC [+] {4}

16:51:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05497645 = 0.9346 BTC [+] {4}

16:51:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610012 = 0.1322 BTC [-]

16:51:19 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/britain-reveals-new-12-sided-pound-coin-1.2578747

16:51:19 ozbot: Britain reveals new 12-sided pound coin - Business - CBC News

16:51:21 nubbins`: harsh portrait

16:51:47 mike_c: !t h mine

16:51:49 assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.

16:51:58 mike_c: !t h b.mine

16:51:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.MINE] 1D: 0.05250001 / 0.0542931 / 0.05710000 (152 shares, 8.25255158 BTC), 7D: 0.03960000 / 0.04840514 / 0.06902300 (1585 shares, 76.72214039 BTC), 30D: 0.03960000 / 0.05003398 / 0.06902300 (6430 shares, 321.71848642 BTC)

16:51:59 BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522390.msg5777151

16:52:00 ozbot: MODERATORS OF THIS FORUM ARE DEFENDING BLOODY ZIONISTS

16:52:09 mircea_popescu: midnightmagic cheers

16:54:37 kakobrekla: cog thread is more fun

16:54:44 kakobrekla: fuckin gold with cherry on top

16:55:44 BingoBoingo: Cog is a little special

16:57:00 kakobrekla: so this ltc pump is driven by knc making scrypt asic

16:57:06 kakobrekla: or am i missing something

16:57:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.05499998 = 0.33 BTC [+] {3}

16:57:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610004 = 0.1322 BTC [-]

16:57:29 BingoBoingo: Hard to tell, last night someone blamed the LTC rally on China

16:58:15 asciilifeform: possible that ltc market has become 'lightweight' enough to simply 'throw'

16:58:21 asciilifeform: or whatever the technical term for this is.

17:02:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.11950724 = 1.1951 BTC [-]

17:05:58 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo china is this beloved myth

17:06:05 mircea_popescu: like you know, messianic

17:06:40 BingoBoingo: Well, for most people most things are either myth or magic

17:07:57 BingoBoingo: One can spend all day imagine brains with an MRI tube without having the slightest idea about what Magnetic Resonance is.

17:08:32 mircea_popescu: "I don't get it. Why do you insist on making everyone think MPOE-PR is not MP? Why deceive your customers with something so trivial to figure out?

17:08:32 mircea_popescu: That's just weird."

17:08:34 mircea_popescu: win.

17:08:35 ThickAsThieves: best evidence i have is "last I heard from a chinese parent in my kids chinese class (which was maybe a few months back) in that in China EVERYONE was into litecoin."

17:08:45 mircea_popescu: i should take a bet for when this mpoe-pr = mp thing finally dies.

17:09:12 BCB: ballsy

17:09:38 BingoBoingo: bitcoinmagazine.com/11259/illinois-virtual-currency-and-the-transmitters-of-money-act/

17:09:49 ThickAsThieves: 'New Slang For Unconfirmed Transactions? Dorians'

17:10:17 sheldonthomas: ThickAsThieves awesome

17:10:24 nubbins`: heh

17:10:32 nubbins`: man i've got this fuckin dorian stuck for days now

17:10:33 BingoBoingo: Shit might be useful if people announced things were happening today on a timeline with greater advanced notice than a single day

17:10:42 BCB: who runs this channel

17:10:50 nubbins`: gribble ;p

17:10:54 ThickAsThieves: the community

17:10:58 BCB: what's MP's handel

17:11:03 BCB: nick

17:11:09 nubbins`: guess

17:11:11 mircea_popescu: guess

17:11:13 mircea_popescu: damnit

17:11:16 ThickAsThieves: lol

17:11:18 BCB: mircea_popescu: ballsy

17:11:18 nubbins`: you owe be a beer

17:11:21 BingoBoingo: BCB: Generally kakobrekla runs the channel MP's handle is...

17:11:24 nubbins`: *me

17:11:33 mircea_popescu: my handle is a bar moustache

17:11:53 BCB: mircea_popescu: you command of the english language is impressive

17:11:57 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves haha splendid.

17:12:25 ThickAsThieves: "Today, however, founder Tim Sweeney is announcing a new business model: Epic will charge just $19 a month, and 5 percent of a game developer's gross revenue, for access to the complete Unreal Engine set of tools and even its source code."

17:12:26 mircea_popescu: BCB As the wolly-haired Melanasians of Papua, New Guinea once said, (Makes a series of clicking and popping sounds)

17:12:42 nubbins`: http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2015/

17:12:45 ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015

17:12:50 nubbins`: does it usually take a while for initial bets to appear?

17:13:13 ThickAsThieves: yeah sometimes

17:13:15 nubbins`: i sent one along immediately after submitting the bet

17:13:16 nubbins`: ah, k

17:13:24 nubbins`: maybe waiting for confirms

17:13:46 benkay: (re: "who runs this": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmMU_iwe6U)

17:13:48 mircea_popescu: yeah a block or so.

17:14:41 nubbins`: right-o

17:14:57 nubbins`: figured i'd sweeten the pot a bit

17:16:16 BingoBoingo: I still can't believe Illinois did not invite me to their hearing on Virtual currencies as an honored distinguished guest, and that news of it happening didn't even reach me until it is two hours too late to start driving and make it on time.

17:17:14 benkay: (specifically http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VBmMU_iwe6U#t=64)

17:21:27 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo clearly they're stonewalling you

17:21:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299998 = 0.365 BTC [+]

17:21:48 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Clearly.

17:21:58 nubbins`: [14:50:31] <Inkata> can anyone point me to a modern way to sign contracts? real-life contracts with crypto?

17:22:06 nubbins`: surely there's an article written on this, anyone got a title handy??

17:22:21 mircea_popescu: didn't bingo write something about that ?

17:22:32 BingoBoingo: Eh, Maybe I'll find out about Missouri's version of this thing in time. Jefferson city is a more pleasant drive than Springfield anyways

17:22:47 BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record GPG

17:22:48 gribble: PGP/GPG Guide | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/pgpgpg-guide/; Signature Thursday: Geany a GUI text editor for GPG tasks | Bingo ...: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/31/signature-thursday-geany-a-gui-text-editor-for-gpg-tasks/; Contact and Credentials | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/

17:22:56 mircea_popescu: nubbins` but otherwise you can just you know... show him a mpex contract

17:23:04 asciilifeform: depends on what you mean by 'real life contracts'

17:23:04 mircea_popescu: three years later they're still the standard in practice

17:23:08 BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record digital signatures

17:23:09 gribble: Chapter 1B-26.003, Florida Administrative Code - Statutes, Rules ...: http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/barm/rules/1B26_003FAC.cfm; ELECTRONIC RECORDS; ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES - Legal ...: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/21/part-11; electronic signature « Adobe EchoSign - Adobe Blogs: http://blogs.adobe.com/echosign/tag/electronic-signature/

17:23:13 asciilifeform: if your local princeling believes pgp to be the work of satan

17:23:41 asciilifeform: then you're stuck with strictly reputation-based contract

17:23:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the princeling to do with it ?

17:24:09 asciilifeform: in our applications, nothing at all

17:24:11 mircea_popescu: you can trivially print out gpg signed contracts, sign on the paper, and register them

17:24:19 mircea_popescu: gpg is backwards-compatible with all legal systems.

17:24:34 asciilifeform: sure, but in the 'microscope is backwards-compatible with hammer' sense.

17:24:45 mircea_popescu: not necessarily, it'd depend.

17:24:55 mircea_popescu: certainly ample space for that, sure.

17:24:58 asciilifeform: i vaguely recall that pgp 'counts' in the usa

17:25:12 asciilifeform: but, IANAL, and not sure how settled the case law is.

17:26:59 mircea_popescu: for what it's worth the opinions i have re likely romanian court reaction would be that should a signature be repudiated you have about 2:3 chances to get the judge to process the pgp part of the text.

17:27:41 asciilifeform: 'Shall Be Delivered' (TM) has not yet played out in life, huh

17:27:55 mircea_popescu: not here anyway.

17:28:29 mircea_popescu: actual signature repudiations are rare irl

17:28:36 mircea_popescu: most cases are testamentary contestations

17:28:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2784 @ 0.00014332 = 0.399 BTC [-] {4}

17:28:48 mircea_popescu: in which case the judge'd definitely see through the pgp.

17:29:38 asciilifeform: arguably any case involving stolen btc could, theoretically, bake crypto-signature precedent

17:30:18 asciilifeform: ('he signed it, so he's a you. now gladiators.')

17:30:38 mircea_popescu: very theoretically.

17:31:00 mircea_popescu: btc will pose some very srious problems to legal systems based on caselaw, perhaps enough so to make them unworkable in practice

17:31:09 mircea_popescu: this, however, is a head of the hydra burried for another two decades.

17:31:21 asciilifeform: meatspace courts are supposed to operate on principle of 'least astonishment' (someone cough up the right term plz) ?

17:31:46 asciilifeform: i think it was 'stare decisis'

17:31:53 asciilifeform: (sp?)

17:32:37 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Generally.

17:32:47 novusordo: until recently, I'd never visited fraudsters.com on a windows machine

17:32:58 novusordo: yesterday I did, and was quite disappointed

17:33:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it's valid

17:33:16 novusordo: comic sans blog title.

17:33:21 asciilifeform: people don't seem to grasp the fact that the situation in 'shall be delivered' is as inevitable as that first street drunk who electrocuted himself in the 1870s (?)

17:34:03 asciilifeform: i recall reading that it caused great public wankage at the time

17:34:13 mircea_popescu: novusordo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-11-2013#392453

17:34:16 asciilifeform: 'oh noez, wires of death'

17:34:31 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But it took so much more electricity to electricute the first street drunk verus than the first idiot

17:34:56 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ?

17:35:16 novusordo: mircea_popescu: yeah, I looked at the CSS because I thought it was a fall-back font

17:35:19 novusordo: nope

17:35:28 mircea_popescu: nope. if you have comic it'll show you you have comic

17:35:31 mircea_popescu: because apparently you like comic

17:35:32 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Ethanol is a crude anti-convulsant and is rather neuroprotective against these things.

17:35:35 mircea_popescu: who am i to argue.

17:35:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.053601 = 0.3216 BTC [-] {4}

17:35:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.067 = 0.402 BTC [+] {3}

17:35:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {3}

17:36:02 BingoBoingo: Then again the street drunk would need to be drunk to enjoy this protection

17:36:31 BingoBoingo: electrocuting someone in the throes of Delirium tremens wouldn't be sporting at all

17:36:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

17:39:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 47 @ 0.08 = 3.76 BTC [-] {2}

17:41:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0682 = 0.7502 BTC [-] {3}

17:43:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06811222 = 0.2724 BTC [-] {2}

17:43:16 mircea_popescu: carsam type in the lower box to talk

17:46:01 nubbins`: they should really note that somewhere on the page

17:46:44 jcpham: sexy hostmask

17:46:59 jcpham: carsam is sexy

17:47:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00081096 = 12.2049 BTC [-]

17:47:09 jcpham: except for webchat

17:47:11 jcpham: that's icky

17:48:45 nubbins`: http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2015/

17:48:46 nubbins`: there we go

17:48:47 benkay: carsam - lurking or confused? ;)

17:48:48 ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015

17:49:34 nubbins`: hm, "house bet"?

17:49:51 mircea_popescu: kako broke bitbet.

17:50:11 nubbins`: bonus for me

17:50:13 nubbins`: (maybe)

17:50:31 BCB: mircea_popescu: I want to meet you when you come to New York.

17:50:49 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Still prefer http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/?ref=1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4

17:51:14 nubbins`: house bet there too

17:51:18 mircea_popescu: bcb that may take a while.

17:51:22 nubbins`: free moniez

17:51:33 BCB: mircea_popescu: why's that?

17:52:19 nubbins`: uh, wait now

17:52:26 asciilifeform: BCB: would you personally travel to a place where there's a cork-lined cellar waiting for you?

17:52:29 nubbins`: that's actually not the bet i submitted

17:52:58 nubbins`: i said 2014

17:53:00 nubbins`: bet says 2015

17:53:20 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is the cellar a wine cellar?

17:53:36 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nope, the other kind.

17:53:40 nubbins`: the fuck?

17:53:40 BCB: asciilifeform: cork-lined - they are actually cement

17:54:29 asciilifeform: 'endless war and endless underfeeding for the sake of war, slave populations toiling behind barbed wire, women dragged shrieking to the block, cork-lined cellars where the executioner blows your brains out from behind. So it appears that amputation of the soul isn't just a simple surgical job, like having your appendix out. The wound has a tendency to go septic.' (orwell's 'notes on the way')

17:54:39 kakobrekla: nubbins` it seems bet was altered by the mods

17:54:52 nubbins`: but i don't want that bet

17:54:55 kakobrekla: ha, who broke it now!

17:55:13 kakobrekla: but in all seriousness, ring mp

17:55:43 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/propositions/ vs http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2015/ -- year changed from 2014 to 2015, what gives!

17:56:20 BCB: mircea_popescu: SEC will fly you on their private jet

17:56:34 mircea_popescu: nubbins` uh

17:56:54 asciilifeform: 'latvia airlines' ? (or was it poland?)

17:57:24 mircea_popescu: BCB well cause i don't intend to visit the us till they dissolve the homeland security crap and put the people responsible on trial.

17:57:47 BCB: mircea_popescu: I don't think you'll have a choice in the matter.

17:58:13 Duffer1: lmao reminds me of some of the reddit comments about the fraudsters article

17:58:16 asciilifeform: the trial is about as likely as mr. putin personally hand-feeding preet bharara to bear

17:58:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sucks for the us.

17:58:45 BCB: asciilifeform: they don't need a trial. Just and indictment

17:59:00 asciilifeform: (we don't even know if he leases the bear, or keeps it on retainer, or it lives in his bed)

17:59:09 mircea_popescu: BCB well so then how would we meed in this counterfactual future you propose ?

17:59:12 nubbins`: do mods often change bet conditions after money has been sent in?

17:59:17 nubbins`: or am i just lucky :D

17:59:17 mircea_popescu: nubbins` no.

17:59:21 mircea_popescu: you're just lucky.

17:59:32 BCB: mircea_popescu: I'd be standing in the crowd during your perp walk

17:59:44 Duffer1: more americans thoroughly unaware of their complete irrelevance

18:00:33 mircea_popescu: that works.

18:01:04 chetty: oct 2015 - thats more than 1 year ...

18:01:09 BCB: mircea_popescu: I'll have a pink carnation in my lapel

18:01:19 mircea_popescu: i;kk be sure to look

18:01:48 kakobrekla: i didnt know we support bets that long lel

18:02:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.00598635 = 0.7184 BTC [+] {2}

18:02:34 nubbins`: sorry guise D;

18:02:43 Duffer1: what have you done?

18:02:56 mircea_popescu: RUINED

18:03:04 nubbins`: created a time paradox

18:03:28 nubbins`: i just asked google what time it is and it says "yesternow"

18:03:37 nubbins`: i thought that was just the name of a miles davis song D:

18:04:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30121 @ 0.00081495 = 24.5471 BTC [+]

18:05:04 artifexd: Is it irony that #netsec was hacked?

18:05:30 mircea_popescu: it was ?

18:05:38 artifexd: Try and join it

18:06:46 mircea_popescu: nubbins` fixt.

18:06:47 BingoBoingo: I thought that was related to http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/03/19/1218252/full-disclosure-security-list-suspended-indefinitely

18:06:56 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: tyvm!

18:10:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00081541 = 26.2154 BTC [+] {2}

18:11:06 nubbins`: "I heard that Leah McGrath Goodman is writing an article that proves that "Mircea Popescu" is in fact Erik Voorhees."

18:11:07 nubbins`: heh.

18:11:30 nubbins`: are there any other OOP rags looking to make a comeback?

18:11:37 jborkl: mircea does not look good in red

18:11:46 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Sauce?

18:12:18 nubbins`: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/20sg7l/mp_was_approached_by_the_sec_about_bitcoin/cg6knxx

18:12:19 ozbot: AbsoluteZero2 comments on MP was approached by the SEC about Bitcoin exchanges; handled it very prof

18:14:06 BingoBoingo: Lol

18:15:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7408 @ 0.00081565 = 6.0423 BTC [+]

18:20:49 dexX7: someone here from http://satoshibox.com/? add the option to add a file hash/signature or whatever

18:22:18 dexX7: wow.. some people can turn everything into fud: "If you have ownership of BTC-denominated securities such as those traded on Havelock or MPEx (such as NEOBEE, S.DICE, S.MPOE, etc.) now would be a good time to talk to a lawyer."

18:22:43 kakobrekla: im good, bbet isnt mentioned

18:23:18 asciilifeform: i'm already signed up to be gassed at nsa, sec will have to wait in line.

18:23:30 mircea_popescu: nubbins` good one

18:25:03 dexX7: "Why is Havelock Investments in the SEC's crosshairs? I made an account with them, but never bought anything. Should I be worried?" "Can you get in trouble for just a few mBTC?" ...

18:25:39 mircea_popescu: ...

18:25:45 dexX7: :D

18:25:49 dexX7: yup

18:28:09 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo fuckwit doesn't name names.

18:28:15 mircea_popescu: people need to grow up already.

18:28:25 BingoBoingo: Yeah

18:29:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno if you've answered yet, but what are the plans for MP University? http://fraudsters.com/2014/fata-morgana-ii-or-dont-you-just-hate-it-when-you-come-up-with-an-idea-and-a-title-and-then-discover-you-need-an-introduction-which-keeps-swelling-so-eventually-youre-stuck-publishing-it-as-a-sta/

18:29:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 330 @ 0.00401153 = 1.3238 BTC [-] {5}

18:29:47 mircea_popescu: maybe. too much hassle so far, and who'd teach

18:30:18 asciilifeform: quite a few of us here could probably teach.

18:30:33 asciilifeform: better question - who'd learn.

18:30:38 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, if you need a trained Librarian.

18:31:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform girls only, under 30, childless.

18:31:22 asciilifeform: lol

18:32:00 BingoBoingo: Ah, isn't that kind of the operation you are running atm?

18:32:08 mircea_popescu: allegedly.

18:32:29 asciilifeform: grls have this thing that they do, where they pretend to make you teach them maths, but they just pulsate

18:33:32 mircea_popescu: hm.

18:33:38 mircea_popescu: vagostabyl ?

18:33:38 asciilifeform: people teaching everything from number theory to marksmanship complain about this.

18:33:42 asciilifeform: lol

18:37:31 BingoBoingo: I've always wondered why more marksmanship classes aren't taught with a mirrored target

18:37:42 asciilifeform: people have said to me that my teaching anything would qualify as cruel and unusual punishment

18:37:49 mircea_popescu: This is actually a highly revealing exchange.

18:37:49 mircea_popescu: A revealing exchange about an exchange that isn't revealing?

18:37:53 asciilifeform: so perhaps i'll teach the penal battalion.

18:37:54 mircea_popescu: ahgagaga reddit delivers

18:38:01 mircea_popescu: well done dexX7

18:38:23 dexX7: hehe yw

18:38:41 mircea_popescu: "At least MP is an asshole equally to everyone, there is some amount of credibility in that."

18:38:48 mircea_popescu: i been sayin'...

18:40:47 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cheap led vga projectors are common now, i imagine very soon you'll be able to project your face on the target at your local target lane.

18:41:11 mircea_popescu: i thought it was all about penile projection

18:42:09 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm kind of wondering why it isn't standard already. One's own face ought to offer better anatomical context at the range than those circles

18:42:48 asciilifeform: afaik nothing stops you from printing a self portrait and using that today.

18:48:34 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Getting the scale right, etc

18:48:34 mircea_popescu: "Based on the toxic and self righteous writing style, i'm pretty sure it's him. He would never admit it though, as the account has always made fun of anyone calling it a man."

18:48:42 mircea_popescu: hei guise, what the fuck does that toxic mean ?

18:48:58 BingoBoingo: "They were asking for voluntary cooperation. All he had to say was "no thank you." You can bet if they had any legal or authoritative standing they wouldn't be asking they'd be taking/demanding."

18:50:22 praeconium: Good evening, where do You get historical prices of various coins?

18:50:50 mircea_popescu: praeconium bitcoincharts.com maybe ?

18:50:53 mircea_popescu: at least for bitcoin.

18:51:04 dexX7: praeconium: maybe this http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/main/table

18:51:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53756 @ 0.00081523 = 43.8235 BTC [-] {3}

18:51:14 mircea_popescu: "Subject: These users are now making more money in 1 hour than in their 9-5 dead-end job" "What could you do with $106 an hour?" << my spambox rules.

18:51:40 benkay: BingoBoingo: class is always in session in -assets.

18:52:08 praeconium: mircea_popescu: thanks.

18:52:08 praeconium: Do You trade other coins? I know I am not in right channel..

18:52:25 mircea_popescu: i bought a little atc

18:52:41 mircea_popescu: but not really no.

18:53:09 praeconium: Is there a channel where people trading on quantitative models talk?

18:53:14 BingoBoingo: benkay: Sure, but for some a physical campus with ammenities like horsehair robes and doors locked from the outside can provide motivation

18:54:19 mircea_popescu: praeconium maybe #mtgox ?

18:54:34 jborkl: it is closed

18:54:44 mircea_popescu: i guess that didn't work out then

18:55:30 benkay: praeconium: try ##econometrics

18:55:37 dexX7: praeconium: ##econometrics seems to be the most "professional" one re: investments and bitcoin, about bitcoin trading talk there is #bitcoin-pricetalk + #bitcoinmarkets

18:55:39 benkay: bit trolly from time to time, but hey it's irc

18:55:52 dexX7: it's ##mtgox-chat

18:56:36 jborkl: that is closed and now is mtgox-talk

18:56:59 jcpham: people still talking about mtgox?

18:57:05 jcpham: is that a thing still

18:57:06 jborkl: no

18:57:07 mircea_popescu: why not just mtgox-cheat and be done with it

18:57:53 jborkl: mtgox-troll would be the best

18:57:57 praeconium: Thanks guys, I already got goxed so that was enough for now :)

18:58:15 mircea_popescu: praeconium kinda my point.

18:58:22 mircea_popescu: you're too early to trade on quantitative models.

18:58:27 praeconium: I am mainly interested to see how they go about acquiring hist and realtime data since there is so much variety.

18:59:01 praeconium: I am not really a quant, I know some basics and have knowledge of finance.. not so complex, tbh

18:59:11 jborkl: rtbtc was good, but the serviced gox and bitstamp

18:59:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.06694 = 1.0041 BTC [+] {2}

18:59:23 mircea_popescu: praeconium there was a guy by the name of herbi, doingsimilar things

18:59:32 mircea_popescu: but it's early yet, basically

18:59:34 praeconium: I used rtbtc, but they used mtgox API

19:00:00 jborkl: yeah, not any use right now

19:00:13 mike_c: historical data: http://api.bitcoincharts.com/v1/csv/

19:00:43 praeconium: mircea_popescu: but don't You think that many new ones will trade with similar patterns to old ones upon introduction or change of diffculty etc?

19:00:54 jborkl: btc-e has metatrader - I have not used it though

19:00:55 dexX7: there is a company that offers a quantitative model about btc (if that's the correct wording).. let me see, if i can find it

19:00:58 BingoBoingo: praeconium: Your best bet may be making #bitcoinquant then lurking here and directing interested people to your channels

19:01:04 praeconium: mike_c: thanks.

19:01:06 mircea_popescu: roughly speaking, the risk of the exchange goxing you is high enough that your quant profits are irrelevant

19:01:10 mircea_popescu: even should you get a model right.

19:01:25 mircea_popescu: which you won't likely, because it's a lot harder to predict turbulent flow than any one other thing

19:01:31 praeconium: Quant != high frequency

19:01:37 mircea_popescu: i am aware.

19:01:40 dexX7: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167431.0 + https://www.quantsig.net/#?&view=about

19:01:42 ozbot: Bitcoin Quant Modeling

19:01:55 nubbins`: you just need to build vestigial fly wingstubs into your model to account for turbulence

19:01:57 mircea_popescu: that said, more effort poured into that can't hurt anything

19:02:12 mircea_popescu: nubbins` note that they have sequenced the human genome, but haven't figured out the winglets.

19:02:14 praeconium: Random Walk is there, I don't look into getting model right :) I just want to implement my ideas.

19:02:18 mircea_popescu: "we could if we wanted to", obviously.

19:02:33 praeconium: Thanks dexX7

19:02:52 praeconium: Bingo, I am really a bit more into talking with existing crowd.. :) but nice idea.

19:03:04 praeconium: mircea_popescu: what do You think of indexing alts?

19:03:15 mircea_popescu: not ure what you mean by that ?

19:03:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8936 @ 0.000816 = 7.2918 BTC [+]

19:03:21 praeconium: On hybrid cap+difficulty models

19:03:37 mircea_popescu: afaik no serious work has been done on that so far at all.

19:03:42 mircea_popescu: i'd read it.

19:03:45 praeconium: Like FTSE100

19:04:03 praeconium: But mixing difficulty with capitalization

19:04:08 asciilifeform: 'Aerodynamicist Theodore von K?rm?n died and went to heaven. In his registration packet was a bright orange ticket. Said Saint Peter, "You may get in line to ask God Himself one question." von K?rm?n ran to join the far end of the orange ticket queue. It was a long line, a *very* long line. Eons passed by and, sure enough, eventually in the distance he espied a giant glowing throne. More eons passed by

19:04:08 asciilifeform: and, finally, his moment arrived! von K?rm?n surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and said, "God, explain turbulence." Theodore von K?rm?n spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.'

19:04:44 mircea_popescu: lol

19:09:06 mircea_popescu: http://www.vnews.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=zqcnNXKR3mS1VoTbVLehlc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYv3CBjenOcpR_3UNwFQij16WCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

19:09:22 asciilifeform: mr. k ?

19:09:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 797 @ 0.00393491 = 3.1361 BTC [-] {10}

19:09:26 mircea_popescu: yeah

19:14:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00081206 = 56.763 BTC [-] {2}

19:19:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 130 @ 0.00388566 = 0.5051 BTC [-] {6}

19:20:20 BingoBoingo: Win https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg5788737#msg5788737

19:20:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 120 @ 0.00385003 = 0.462 BTC [-] {5}

19:21:22 Shakespeare: soundtrack to that mark pic is Under Pressur

19:21:23 Shakespeare: e

19:21:57 Shakespeare: the whip covering his butcrack makes it look odd

19:22:02 mircea_popescu: lol

19:22:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10619 @ 0.00080651 = 8.5643 BTC [-]

19:23:38 Shakespeare: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/11300/bitcoin-namecoin-appear-draft-icann-report-u-s-plans-relinquish-remaining-control-internet/

19:24:36 Shakespeare: "The participants could then each do a standard algorithm to generate consistent state. This might seem like a fantasy, but Byzantine algorithms like Bitcoin [Andreesen 2014] and Namecoin show that such systems are possible today."

19:25:34 Shakespeare: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/20tnqp/fake_blockchaininfo_twitter_account_has_27x_more/

19:25:49 Shakespeare: https://twitter.com/biockchain

19:25:49 ozbot: Blockchain.info (bIockchain) on Twitter

19:26:41 mircea_popescu: what bullshit is this quoting "andreesen"

19:26:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00013754 = 0.2063 BTC [-] {6}

19:26:54 mircea_popescu: the name is satoshi. who is this andressen

19:27:37 dexX7: i'm still wondering, if jimmothy is on mpex' payroll

19:27:49 mircea_popescu: maybe he's really mp ?

19:27:52 dexX7: maybe he is.

19:28:02 Shakespeare: is mp really mp?

19:28:06 dexX7: i sent him a bait some weeks ago, but he didn't take it

19:28:10 BingoBoingo: Maybe jimmothy is Thermos, or nefario?

19:28:25 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare on his better days.

19:28:42 mircea_popescu: or maybe he's just a random dork with no better entertainment options.

19:29:04 mircea_popescu: (last line in response to BingoBoingos comment, ftr)

19:30:12 BingoBoingo: Well, it is always important to point out this is the record

19:31:33 benkay: BingoBoingo is actually tiberiusxiv

19:31:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2208 @ 0.00080691 = 1.7817 BTC [+]

19:32:09 mircea_popescu: i thought tiberius was a girl.

19:32:11 BingoBoingo: benkay: What was his deal anyways. That's like the fifth person I've been accused of being this week.

19:32:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.60009616 = 9.6015 BTC [-] {8}

19:32:51 benkay: tiberius a girl?

19:32:51 benkay: hm

19:32:51 benkay: you'd probably know better than i.

19:33:04 benkay: BingoBoingo: just the best troll this channel has ever seen.

19:33:36 joecool: that would be luke imo

19:33:50 benkay: Luke-Jr?

19:33:55 joecool: yes

19:34:04 benkay: he's no troll - 100% authentic!

19:34:47 joecool: benkay: http://i.imgur.com/RFL8VHw.jpg

19:34:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.00080698 = 35.5071 BTC [+] {2}

19:35:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00384636 = 0.1154 BTC [-] {3}

19:36:38 mircea_popescu: let's move on :

19:36:39 mircea_popescu: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3f7wg4g7s1qbn0f7o1_1280.jpg

19:37:35 Shakespeare: where's her risk-free sign?

19:38:25 mircea_popescu: at.... home ?

19:43:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3392 @ 0.00080707 = 2.7376 BTC [+]

19:45:12 dexX7: i give luke much credit. he may be a troll (it's only what i heard several times), but his pool is remarkable for the different transaction policies and the only one to push non-standard stuff..

19:48:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00380279 = 0.9507 BTC [-] {3}

19:50:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 758 @ 0.00379303 = 2.8751 BTC [-] {4}

20:04:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00375999 = 0.376 BTC [-]

20:05:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8258 @ 0.00081289 = 6.7128 BTC [+]

20:05:31 kakobrekla: dexX7 he did all sorts of scammy shit

20:05:57 moiety: mew all

20:06:10 kakobrekla: hi

20:07:29 dexX7: hi

20:07:47 mircea_popescu: hi kitten

20:07:54 moiety: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2014#564811 feck... you're not counting weird links and imgurs in this are you?!

20:09:21 mircea_popescu: lol

20:09:37 mircea_popescu: http://nypost.com/2005/08/23/naked-truth-post-exposes-overstock-ally/

20:09:38 ozbot: NAKED TRUTH – POST EXPOSES OVERSTOCK ALLY | New York Post

20:09:59 mircea_popescu: overstock is being fucked, who knew.

20:11:12 ninjashogun: very interesting article - http://jangosteve.com/post/380926251/no-one-knows-what-theyre-doing

20:11:19 ninjashogun: (you might have seen it on hackernews)

20:12:07 benderp: nonsense ninjashogun. a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.

20:12:11 moiety: "... has since opened TRG..." excellent! :/

20:12:39 ninjashogun: hi, benderp

20:12:53 benderp: mircea_popescu: more credence accrues every day to the notion that consumer organizations accepting bitcoin only do so as they begin to circle the drain.

20:13:18 moiety: lolol well put benderp - exemplified in here often :P

20:13:30 mircea_popescu: benderp 2005 article mind.

20:13:53 ninjashogun: benderp - suppose you removed everyone from the world who is not "competent". You would be left with nobody making your clothes, producing your food, building your highways, collecting your taxes, installing your Internet connection, or keeping any of the factories, buildings, schools, infrastructure, going.

20:14:05 ninjashogun: Most American teachers are "incompetent". Yet America has a near 100.00% literacy rate.

20:14:17 ninjashogun: Do not discount incompetent people.

20:14:20 moiety: thats ridiculous

20:14:25 moiety: absolutely ridiculous

20:14:36 benderp: fungible labor is fungible.

20:14:45 mircea_popescu: Dollar Shave Club @DollarShaveClub ? 1h

20:14:45 mircea_popescu: Let's wipe out Colon Cancer. Mike, our CEO, is getting a colonoscopy & streaming it live. WATCH RIGHT NOW. #DSColon http://dlrshv.es/1blabla

20:14:50 ninjashogun: No, it's not ridiculous. By any definition of "competent" for which benderp's statement holds true (" a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.") it is absolutely true.

20:14:52 mircea_popescu: i would say this is the definitive example.

20:15:04 moiety: people can be competent at producing food, building things... all the things you said ninjashogun

20:15:16 mircea_popescu: dorks have their own shortener to paste their links about how a spurious ceo is ending cancer by shoving things up his butt live on cam.

20:15:21 mircea_popescu: it just doesn't go any further.

20:15:22 ninjashogun: no they can't. You just said only a vanishingly thin percentage of "everyone" is competent.

20:15:33 dexX7: workers = incompetent sounds like a rude prejudice

20:15:43 benderp: workers = fungible

20:15:47 moiety: prexactly dexX7

20:15:52 ninjashogun: 1 min

20:16:04 benderp: ninjashogun: all the reading in the world, and look at the shitshow that's resulted.

20:16:08 benderp: i blame the incompetent teachers.

20:16:26 moiety: eww mircea_popescu no one wants to see that much of their or anyone else's boss

20:17:33 moiety: ninjashogun: imo, you get people competent and incompetent in every field. competence is not something that comes with status. There are plenty of incompetent management in the world

20:18:21 ninjashogun: I was just responding to benderp's statement

20:18:34 moiety: and im responding to yours

20:18:47 Perlboy: mircea_popescu, nice article http://fraudsters.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/ just a slight comment "(unfortunately the Australian equivalent of the US SEC has been uniquely unhelpful in this matter so far).". Patrick Harnett appears to have a +64 number which would make him NZ :)

20:18:53 moiety: that;s going to happen when you hit enter in here

20:19:14 ninjashogun: moiety - fair enough. I should have been clear that I was being satirical, and not using my own definition of competent. I think basically 100% of people are competent at what they do.

20:19:31 mircea_popescu: Perlboy it's a complicated matter. nz people weren't nearly as obnoxious, but anyway.

20:19:40 moiety: please tell me that was also sarcasm ninjashogun

20:19:40 ninjashogun: I thnk a bunch of companies "suck" and are "idiots". I hate paypal and wish it would die. But I don't actually SAY that, or actually SAY they're incompetent.

20:20:13 Perlboy: mircea_popescu, yeah kiwi's are a bit more open

20:20:18 Perlboy: you were talking to asic?

20:20:20 ninjashogun: I'm not Icahn, there to criticize a $74B company (eBay) when he couldn't run a company any better.

20:20:33 mircea_popescu: anyway, not going to comment on that particular wrinkle further.

20:20:36 benderp: no, you're a budding Jobs, right ninjashogun?

20:21:04 ninjashogun: benderp - maybe a few years ago I would have said that ;-)

20:21:31 Perlboy: mircea_popescu, ok, nice article though i'm glad there's someone like you able to push back

20:21:42 moiety: ;; lasers

20:21:42 gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*

20:21:46 Perlboy: if i did such things in australia i'd start waiting for the black helicopters

20:21:53 ninjashogun: moiety - are there that many incompetent managers in the world though? Don't nearly all of them produce hte basic results they're there to do on some level?

20:22:13 Perlboy: ninjashogun, 99% of managers are a case of shit floating.

20:22:30 moiety: ninjashogun: yes. go work in a hospital or government agency. competence in your definition = arselicking and shagging someone higher up

20:22:31 davout: benderp: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52452135/A%20Lasting%20Inspiration%20(Disc%202).zip

20:22:33 mircea_popescu: people generally overrepresent the importance and power of corrupt government.

20:22:45 benderp: ah davout thou art a scholar

20:22:46 ninjashogun: Perlboy - you say that, but the 'shit' skils that let them 'float' are vitally important to the companies they're at. They do more for the mission than most lines of code that are written at most organizations.

20:23:06 davout: benderp: yo, brb, zipping some leonard cohen for mircea_popescu

20:23:15 ninjashogun: moiety - I've worked at government agencies. My God! The inefficiency. It was horrendous.

20:23:19 mike_c: ninjashogun you should expound on this topic at length on bitcointalk.

20:23:32 moiety: ninjashogun: yup 100% competent huh

20:23:40 ninjashogun: mike_c: I hope you're kidding?

20:23:47 mircea_popescu: davout are you trying to get me in trouble with the law ?

20:23:56 davout: haha

20:24:05 Perlboy: ninjashogun, no they are typically promoted either a) Because they stroked egos and didn't create any issues [or covered them up to people who would be concerned] or b) Were found to be incompetent but were stuck in the organisation so were promoted to a position where they couldn't fuck things up

20:24:12 moiety: i totally agree with mike_c i think it would be a really interesting good thread ninjashogun go for it

20:24:22 moiety: and please link us

20:24:24 ninjashogun: Very funny moiety. :)

20:24:37 mircea_popescu: can't tell if kitteh is trolling or youthful.

20:24:53 ninjashogun: Look, I know that on some level what you say make sense. For example, on some level Windows is completely broken in every single conceivable way and has had the opposite of architects working on it for the past thirty years.

20:24:55 moiety: ;P

20:25:14 benderp: and yet ninjashogun those are the 'architects' out there in the wild, delivering value by your standards.

20:25:17 ninjashogun: But on the other hand, millions of people use Windows for hours every day, and have used it to run most aspects of the economy.

20:25:23 ninjashogun: Exactly!

20:25:27 ninjashogun: Yes, exactly my point benderp.

20:25:36 benderp: what was it asciilifeform was going on about?

20:25:41 moiety: jesus you are seriously gonna use windows as an example here?

20:25:43 benderp: der fuhrershitcake?

20:25:48 asciilifeform: ?

20:25:49 ninjashogun: That WITHOUT sarcasm, in fact those architects (the totally incompetent windows ones) have built immense value over hte past thirty years.

20:26:01 benderp: it tastes great!

20:26:10 ninjashogun: moiety I think windows is a fair example because everyone here knows hte obvious ways in which it sucks :)

20:26:18 Perlboy: ninjashogun, true, but then it's been rewritten what, 4 times now (3.11, 95, XP, 8)?

20:26:20 moiety: asciilifeform! i used gribbles lasers! they were required

20:26:22 ninjashogun: moiety - windows doesn't really have any architectural defenders.

20:26:29 Perlboy: so it's the age old opportunity cost thing

20:26:31 davout: ninjashogun: you may be confusing value with technical debt

20:26:37 Perlboy: hack it together and we'll have to rewrite every X years

20:26:43 Perlboy: or do it right and evolve

20:26:45 asciilifeform: windows doesn't really have any architectural defenders << you'd be surprised.

20:26:52 moiety: i think its time to break out the alcohol or sanity pills or something

20:26:55 Perlboy: unfortunately microsoft isn't motivated to do something forever

20:27:00 asciilifeform: they include people who don't even work for ms

20:27:08 Perlboy: otherwise their upgrade would be less expensive (ie. apple mac osx :))

20:27:16 ninjashogun: davout - I don't think it's technical debt if it never needs to be fixed. Windows was never refactored onto a rock-hard Unix base with proven open technology stacks. Nor will it ever be. You can't call it debt if you're never going to do it.

20:27:27 asciilifeform: like ceo of 'green hills software' (favoured son contractor who sells a proprietary embedded os for military hardware)

20:27:48 asciilifeform: and the Official Party Line of usg is... wait for it...

20:27:56 ninjashogun: Another example is ATM's that run Windows. On some level that is such an obvious display of incompetence that it should make most people here shiver.

20:28:03 davout: ninjashogun: just because you're never going to repay it doesn't change the nature of a debt, it's still a debt

20:28:04 asciilifeform: that winblows is 'certified secure' because it has fine-grained access permissions.

20:28:16 ninjashogun: Most people, that is, except for the millions of people using them to withdraw money.

20:28:37 Perlboy: umm, so, there's nothing wrong with windows being used for all banking applications

20:28:53 ninjashogun: davout - that's silly :) The term "technical debt" is an analogy, i.e. you get features now but at a commitment of future time. If that future time is not a real commitment, then there is no actual debt involved.

20:29:15 Perlboy: just make sure you price in a few hundred firewalls

20:29:18 moiety: ninjashogun, dear, when you begin by talking about incompetence of managers and people that make food... you cannot really switch to a whole company that is comprised of millions of them. #consistency

20:29:18 ninjashogun: davout - just like, if you make a bracelet out of pyrite, you do not have the "debt" of whatever it would take to re-make in Gold. You just have a pyrite bracelet.

20:29:26 Perlboy: which fwiw you'd have to have anyway regardless of os

20:29:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hahaha what

20:29:39 davout: ninjashogun: sounds like a point

20:29:50 ninjashogun: davout - on the other hand if your prototype is pyrite and you're prototyping a gold bracelet (the way many startups prototype an MVP then intend to build scallability) then it can be considered a "debt".

20:29:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seriously, winblows is mandatory, and that's the 'reasoning'

20:30:02 asciilifeform: used by usg

20:30:02 davout: ninjashogun: except if you're considering the expense of time required to switch useful applications to better OSes

20:30:59 Perlboy: Yeah, i know at least one bank that has moved to 100% Windows.

20:31:03 ninjashogun: davout - that is true. I think Microsoft isn't selling that migration path though :)

20:31:12 ninjashogun: Perlboy - what do you mean "100%"?

20:31:15 Perlboy: and they just replaced their core banking with windows+mssql end to end

20:31:22 Perlboy: ninjashogun, every system, windows.

20:31:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very lol.

20:31:28 ninjashogun: Perlboy, their servers?

20:31:32 ninjashogun: Perlboy, their web page?

20:31:33 Perlboy: ninjashogun, all of it.

20:31:36 davout: ninjashogun: it can be debt in the sense that they have to keep backwards compatibility up to some level

20:31:38 ninjashogun: Perlboy, their safes?

20:31:45 moiety: ninjashogun: 100%

20:31:52 moiety: even i get what he means

20:31:55 Perlboy: ninjashogun, all of it. :)

20:32:12 davout: ninjashogun: for the rest there's mastercard

20:32:18 moiety: lololol

20:32:19 ninjashogun: davout - that is a fairer example. Their backwards compatibility is a 'debt' because they are actually taking it on as a commitment. It's clearly a slightly lower debt than they would have if they had a goal of creating a real operating system like Unix and BSD's

20:32:23 Perlboy: microsoft basically dropped their pants license wise.

20:32:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.066 = 0.33 BTC [-] {2}

20:33:03 davout: ninjashogun: "improving their OS" and "creating a new solid OS" sounds like a difference in degree, not in kind

20:33:34 ninjashogun: davout - I don't necessarily call backwards compatibility "improving their OS". In fact, in many cases compatibility and objective improvement are at odds.

20:34:09 davout: ninjashogun: precisely because of tech debt

20:34:24 ninjashogun: davout - yes.

20:34:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00080757 = 40.9438 BTC [-] {3}

20:34:58 ninjashogun: davout - but you can't just call it debt if they're not going to do it. For example, the fact that Python 3 isn't source code compatible with Python 2 isn't technical debt that they're postponing. It's a design decision.

20:35:26 moiety: youre definately the loudest ninja i have ever met!

20:35:31 davout: ninjashogun: no, it's defaulting on debt, which can make sense :D

20:35:57 ninjashogun: moiety - hey man I just posted a link :-D

20:36:09 moiety: the forum??

20:36:17 ninjashogun: No, to an article. I didn't comment on it.

20:36:23 ninjashogun: I linked to - http://jangosteve.com/post/380926251/no-one-knows-what-theyre-doing

20:36:56 moiety: ok? i did see you linked that

20:37:44 mircea_popescu: (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...)

20:38:06 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, that is very interesting.

20:39:25 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, you can also see a lot of that in Apple computers. For example, they are supposed to be very "easy to use" (yet are expensive). But this hides the fact that a lot of people use it to run accounting software that's also dumbed down to their level, and a load of similar extra-expensive things that let them manage their lifestyle. It's becaues they make enough money to buy Macs and to buy expensive dumbed-do

20:39:25 ninjashogun: wn software - but not enough to hire full accountants and managers to do the same work!

20:40:00 benderp: uh

20:40:10 ninjashogun: if you look at mac software ,a lot of it is aimed at letting people do things that ordinarily you would hire a professional for, and not at a professsional level.

20:40:17 benderp: everyone i know who can afford a macintosh pays an accountant if they're not on salary, ninjashogun.

20:40:34 benderp: what are these professional things the macintosh consumer software enables?

20:40:36 ninjashogun: benderp - it may have been a bad example. I mean if you survey the software that's specifically targeted at Mac users.

20:40:43 ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...) /// Nonsense.

20:40:50 moiety: ninjashogun: ok ok i clicked and i give up on any article that begins: "have you ever felt like......"

20:40:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32647 @ 0.00081309 = 26.5449 BTC [+] {2}

20:40:56 benderp: can you provide an acceptable example?

20:41:02 ThickAsThieves: it happened because visual design became a blue collar job

20:41:02 ninjashogun: Yes, let me look.

20:41:03 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves do tell ?

20:41:18 mircea_popescu: in the 20s ?!

20:41:23 ThickAsThieves: no one was thinking about dusting

20:41:27 deadweasel: moiety: i think that's a good rule

20:41:34 ThickAsThieves: oh i thought that was you talking

20:41:41 asciilifeform: afaik the only software today 'specifically targeted at mac users' is the nickel-and-dime chumpatron where these folks pay $20/each for a hundred little gui utilities that'd be a 1-line bash script on an ordinary computer

20:41:46 ThickAsThieves: it's quote from the 20s?

20:41:49 mircea_popescu: yes, it was me talking about the 20s.

20:41:54 ThickAsThieves: or just referring to 20s style

20:41:58 mircea_popescu: well yes.

20:42:07 ninjashogun: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401329,00.asp has a list (sorry about hte overlay)

20:42:10 ThickAsThieves: simplicity is in vogue now too

20:42:13 ninjashogun: the top one is a good example. Dreamweaver.

20:42:15 ninjashogun: Who uses dreamweaver?

20:42:17 ninjashogun: And why?

20:42:18 mircea_popescu: true true, not very well introduced.

20:42:29 mircea_popescu: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheRoaringTwenties < sauce.

20:42:30 benderp: <asciilifeform> afaik the only software today 'specifically targeted at mac

20:42:30 benderp: users' is the nickel-and-dime chumpatron where these folks pay

20:42:30 benderp: $20/each for a hundred little gui utilities that'd be a 1-line

20:42:30 benderp: bash script on an ordinary computer

20:42:30 ozbot: Main/The Roaring Twenties - Television Tropes & Idioms

20:42:41 mircea_popescu: benderp omfg you derp you

20:42:46 ThickAsThieves: if anything, it's certainly cheaper to make simple stuff

20:42:46 benderp: yeah derpin hard

20:42:49 ThickAsThieves: rather than frilly

20:42:56 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that is EXACTLY my point. Exactly that.

20:43:07 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that they pay EXTRA but becuase they're not actually having someone competent do it.

20:43:16 ThickAsThieves: mostly the expense comes into play when they choose expensive smooth surfaces

20:43:18 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, they pay extra for a GUI, instead of enough for someone to do it properly.

20:43:26 ThickAsThieves: but hey if they scratch, that makes them consumable!

20:44:19 asciilifeform: and then there are the poor schmucks who just want a portable posix box that mostly works.

20:44:34 *: asciilifeform measures dust thickness on apple laptop

20:44:41 moiety: so mircea_popescu, ThickAsTheives, can we conclude modern day styling is getting more minimalistic and less decorative because people are lazy/no servants/no time?

20:45:02 mircea_popescu: moiety i would say in present day considerations shoving the items is more of a concern

20:45:07 ThickAsThieves: i wont say it has much to do with servants

20:45:10 mircea_popescu: as the dollar shave "ceo" clearly illustrates

20:45:24 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I missed your dollar shave example, what was it?

20:45:32 ThickAsThieves: i'd add to the list too

20:45:41 *: moiety nods

20:45:47 ThickAsThieves: for example, where do you find people to make intricate wood carvings?

20:45:52 mircea_popescu: even the cars look increasingly more like they came out of a vulva.

20:46:12 ninjashogun: :)

20:46:17 ThickAsThieves: mass production is a huge influence

20:46:25 ninjashogun: There is actually one take-away from the above insights that mircea_popescu 's quote led to here.

20:46:26 moiety: even more of a side note -- i think it's a real shame loosing the individuality and decorativeness of design :( cars is a good example!

20:46:27 deadweasel: my Vulva is diesel 240

20:46:29 mircea_popescu: but they had mass production for a century

20:46:45 mircea_popescu: moiety yeah now everyone makes porsches, from bmw to mercedes.

20:46:52 ninjashogun: It seems for the bitcoin device that you guys were building (asciilifeform) the real money is in making it SO dumb that the user doesn't have to understand how bitcoin, signing, or a wallet works.

20:47:04 ThickAsThieves: right but havent things become more about cutting costs as time passes?

20:47:16 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: who said i was involved in making a bitcoin-related anything?

20:47:21 ThickAsThieves: they are literally cutting the edges

20:47:21 ninjashogun: so if you could make it so dumb that the user just thinks of it "as a wallet" with "bitcoins in it" and takes it out to spend from it.

20:47:24 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves actually it became feasible to extrude complex conical surfaces.

20:47:33 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I thought that the signing thing was a natural step away from an offline wallet?

20:47:35 moiety: mircea_popescu: and they are so ugly. what ever happened to aston and jaguar

20:47:36 mircea_popescu: better cnc etc

20:47:46 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: i think you have the wrong address. that'd be 'trezor' et al.

20:47:48 ThickAsThieves: 3d printing may bring a psuedo-rennaisance

20:47:48 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, wouldn't your embedded device be used at some point as an offline wallet that you can connect?

20:48:02 ThickAsThieves: but i doubt it

20:48:09 moiety: ThickAsThieves: i think you might be right but i feel only at a trinket level?

20:48:17 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay. I was talking about that USB thing that escrows your private key. I know you only said it was about private keys - but most users don't know what that is.

20:48:19 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: i might theoretically, at some point, make something that fits this description, but the current product has nothing to do with bitcoin or wallets

20:48:19 ThickAsThieves: well theyll get bigger

20:48:29 ThickAsThieves: look at the german car thing in the news today

20:48:30 ThickAsThieves: sec

20:48:38 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay.

20:48:43 ThickAsThieves: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/edag-3-d-printed-car/

20:48:44 ozbot: The Germans Have Figured Out How to 3-D Print Cars | Autopia | Wired.com

20:48:50 moiety: thanks ThickAsThieves

20:48:56 ThickAsThieves: i dunno how the fuck they can that a car

20:49:01 ThickAsThieves: but at least it's a hull

20:49:06 daybyter: Carrera cars? ^^

20:49:07 ThickAsThieves: call*

20:49:11 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I was just thinking how mircea's current insights would imply that that is what you could actually sell to dumb users for a huge markup (e.g. $199), since they know what a leather wallet is and know that bitcoins are money. and that's it.

20:49:18 moiety: jesus christ, where do you even sit

20:49:31 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: this is catastrophically misguided.

20:49:32 ThickAsThieves: in the vulva

20:49:37 moiety: LOL

20:49:40 ThickAsThieves: :)

20:50:05 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. I'm not saying you'd need to pursue it. Just like I'm not saying you should build a shiny gui on a Unix utility and sell it to mac users for $49.

20:50:20 ThickAsThieves: old school art deco did offer many intricate work too yknow

20:50:30 benderp: ninjashogun: if you can't be bothered to respond to private conversations that you start, I don't see why I should arse myself to respond to your PMs.

20:51:01 moiety: lol "inspired by a turtles skeleton" -- i have *always* thought of beautiful cars when viewing turtles

20:51:14 thestringpuller: asciilifeform do you believe there is a hardware hole in most mobile devices?

20:51:18 ThickAsThieves: i always thought car design moved much too slowly

20:51:19 thestringpuller: like for rng?

20:51:43 moiety: bahaha and *theres* the connection!

20:51:46 ThickAsThieves: i dont understand why more concept cars arent produced

20:51:51 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots.

20:52:16 moiety: remember the alfa concept they just produced one of for the boss

20:52:23 ThickAsThieves: serving idiots will age you

20:52:38 benderp: mo users, mo problems.

20:53:05 asciilifeform: fundamentally different problems. ones which only the folks with the cattle prods are properly equipped to handle.

20:53:23 ThickAsThieves: idiots also suck all the joy out of a task

20:53:47 benderp: asciilifeform: link the goats again!

20:54:01 asciilifeform: benderp: ?

20:54:48 asciilifeform: goats?

20:54:49 asciilifeform: http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Futurama_740ef3_1220967.gif

20:55:03 benderp: with the bells

20:55:40 ninjashogun: benderp, sorry!! I was very interested in your response, just a bit delayed. I'm doing a few different things.

20:56:17 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEnz9CaJqTY

20:56:19 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, link to "see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots." ?? This is about the opposite of what I've always heard.

20:56:32 asciilifeform: (about 10 min. long, so you need an attention span)

20:56:37 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I've always heard that if you make things for idiots, you will always have a huge market, since most people don't use most technologies.

20:57:23 ThickAsThieves: dafuck language are you spekaing?

20:57:30 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so for their purposes, it might as well not exist. For example, for the purposes of most people in the world, bitcoin doesn't actually exist (theyu can't buy it at a western union currency exchange, or know how to install software for it.)

20:57:59 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so if someone were to create something idiots could (actually) use then it would be (for them) as thought only it existed. Apple often does this and practically claims competing technology doesn't even exist.

20:59:02 ThickAsThieves: last night a couple asked me the easiest way to buy bitcoin, I said Coinbase, you just need to enter your checking account info, and the wife was all, I'm not putting my checking account info in some website!

20:59:19 ThickAsThieves: i was like, dont you buy stuff online all the time?

20:59:38 ThickAsThieves: yeah but can i just buy them with PayPal?

20:59:46 ThickAsThieves: etc

20:59:51 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: 'Honest toil not so much, but honest cunning aplenty in this fabled subsection of the population, the offensively stupid poor. The costs of the strategic mistake of dealing with them are huge. Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations com

20:59:51 asciilifeform: petent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or whatever they?re called now, non-lethal something or the other) to correctly handle them. They have the chemicals, they?ve done the research, know the behavioural patterns, have the walls all built to

20:59:51 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, what did you say?

20:59:52 asciilifeform: obstruct vision, living arrangements all thought through and everything.' (mp's http://fraudsters.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga)

20:59:58 mircea_popescu: paypal is not a website, and the government is not some twerps.

21:00:33 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, thank you for that link. I actually completely agree with it.

21:00:49 ThickAsThieves: i told her i wouldnt sell to them because theyd still need a wallet anyway

21:00:54 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I guess I had a different market in mind, not the true bottom third of the Pyramid of society.

21:01:01 ThickAsThieves: bitcoin really isnt for the masses

21:01:21 ThickAsThieves: i told her to buy FIG

21:01:50 ThickAsThieves: i also told them not to do anything i said

21:02:40 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I'm not sure why bitcoin can't be for the masses. A wallet is an extremely close analogy with a physical wallet. The only major difference is the history. Isn't it?

21:03:01 ThickAsThieves: the difference really is that transactions are final

21:03:13 ThickAsThieves: without an Undo, idiots cant manage

21:03:20 ninjashogun: But this is true with a wallet as well. When you hand someone cash you don't expect to be able to unhand them that cash.

21:03:29 ThickAsThieves: who uses cash?

21:03:34 mircea_popescu: there's undo in mountain dew ?

21:03:41 deadweasel: do the undo

21:04:01 mircea_popescu: ;;google undine

21:04:02 gribble: Undine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine; Undine (novella) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine_(novella); Undine (alchemy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine_(alchemy)

21:04:21 ninjashogun: So we've identified two differences (1) transactions are final (2) there is a history of transactions somewhere. Is there anything else that would be a conceptual hurdle for everyone using bitcoin?

21:04:35 mircea_popescu: (the first nymphlet to drink piss)

21:04:38 ninjashogun: I mean as an analogy for a physical wallet with cash in it.

21:05:28 ThickAsThieves: like i said, you are comparing the wrong thing

21:05:39 ThickAsThieves: common man doesnt use cash for much of note

21:05:50 ThickAsThieves: they use debit/credit cards

21:05:52 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I understand this.

21:05:53 ThickAsThieves: or PayPal

21:05:54 ThickAsThieves: etc

21:06:03 FabianB: in US

21:06:08 ThickAsThieves: indeed

21:06:16 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, but why such a strong statement above? "bitcoin really isnt for the masses"

21:06:19 FabianB: 90% cash here

21:06:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00375616 = 0.2254 BTC [-] {3}

21:06:24 ninjashogun: I would very humbly suggest that in the long term it might be.

21:06:35 bitcoinpete: i'll just quietly leave this here: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/there-is-no-bitcoin-2-0/

21:06:35 ThickAsThieves: common man also cant figure out to not open exe files from their email

21:06:37 mircea_popescu: FabianB where's that again ? japan ?

21:06:39 ninjashogun: unless there is some inherent conceptual hurdle that people can't understand.

21:06:53 bitcoinpete: ;;later tell benkay thanks for the inspiration!

21:06:53 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:07:01 deadweasel: ninjashogun, explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some.

21:07:07 FabianB: mircea_popescu: that was a personal statement, not country statistics

21:07:08 deadweasel: you'll find the hurdles

21:07:13 ThickAsThieves: ^

21:07:23 ninjashogun: deadweasel - I think i have some insight on this.

21:07:30 FabianB: mircea_popescu: but probably true for jp, korea and china, more or less

21:07:31 deadweasel: stop thinking then

21:07:36 mircea_popescu: i use cash only too.

21:07:36 ThickAsThieves: as you probly think you do about most things

21:07:43 ninjashogun: deadweasel, the major hurdle is that people who don't do forex don't normally talk of 'buying' currency. That's the only hurdle. Specifically:

21:07:49 deadweasel: no

21:07:49 mircea_popescu: did in the us, also. never had a problem with it, contrary to what people say

21:07:50 deadweasel: stop

21:08:01 ThickAsThieves: mp, but for the things you use cash for, would you ever use bitcoin instead?

21:08:01 ninjashogun: deadweasel, it doesn't make much sense to say "I bought $100 with my used bike." It feels wrong. But it's accurate.

21:08:04 FabianB: andd germany is still more cash than credit cards as well

21:08:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00081557 = 11.051 BTC [+]

21:08:23 deadweasel: honestly, i can't follow your ramblings at present, ninjashogun, how could you possibly explain it to a newbie?

21:08:31 mircea_popescu: turns out you can rent hotel rooms w/o credit cards just fine. provided you wear a suit and your gangster roll is larger than the receptionists' penis

21:08:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves not really.

21:09:02 deadweasel: ^

21:09:05 ninjashogun: deadweasel, sorry I wasn't clear enough. The difficulty with 'buying' a currency is that people don't think of 'buying' a dollar, or euro, or pound. It's a difficult concept for most people. People think of using currency, not buying it.

21:09:14 ThickAsThieves: in this way i think it's unwise to use normal cash wallets as the intro to noobs

21:09:23 mircea_popescu: maybe.

21:09:35 mircea_popescu: the jury in my head is out on the entire topic of bitcoin-backed ccs

21:09:38 ninjashogun: deadweasel, so if you were to say, "I bought $100 with my bicycle" it would - as you point out - sound like incoherent ramblings. It should be written, "I SOLD my bike for $100".

21:09:39 ThickAsThieves: it's much more akin to your onlin banking username and password

21:09:41 mircea_popescu: maybe they work, fuck knows. let people try.

21:09:59 ThickAsThieves: except that your online banking has Undo

21:10:02 moiety: I'm struggling with weighing up the frustration:lulz in relation to the ignore function

21:10:04 ninjashogun: so as soon as people starting talking about "Buying things with bitcoin" then it's pretty obvious how it works.

21:10:06 deadweasel: ninjashogun, i seem to have lost you completely. but i know one thing, the last time I thought I had some insight on bitcoin I asked everyone here. turns out i was wrong.

21:10:08 FabianB: i sell euro if i want rmb to get around in china

21:10:42 moiety: well done for managing this far deadweasel

21:11:16 deadweasel: ditto!

21:11:51 ninjashogun: deadweasel - what's wrong with the answer to your question "explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some" - bitcoin is just a currency like euros or pounds, except you don't need to involve banks, it works more like cash. If you want to buy something in pounds (let's say you visit London) you get some pounds at an exchange (using dollars). if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you get some bi

21:11:51 ninjashogun: tcoins (using dollars).

21:12:05 ThickAsThieves: this is also why i find those BigFoot bitcoin brochures so out of touch

21:12:18 ThickAsThieves: they make zero effort to actually initiate a new user

21:12:24 asciilifeform: bitcoinpete: i wish people didn't spread messianic exaggeration re: cardano. it isn't a Final Solution, just intended to be a little oasis in the desert.

21:12:31 ninjashogun: That would be the normal answer to the question you just stated....

21:12:47 deadweasel: Cardono, TM, secures your btc and burns your jews, automatically!

21:12:51 asciilifeform: lol

21:13:01 deadweasel: Cardano*

21:13:14 asciilifeform: 'throw transport down the well, so yer country can be free!' (sasha baroncohen)

21:13:23 ninjashogun: Normal users, for reasons we can appreciate, would then proceed to buy bitcoins if they had something they wanted to buy in bitcoins. (And only then.) This is currency working as it should.

21:13:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50474 @ 0.00081576 = 41.1747 BTC [+] {3}

21:13:31 mircea_popescu: can anyone explain to me why clikcion on pete's link in note 5 http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/there-is-no-bitcoin-2-0/#fn-197-5

21:13:35 mircea_popescu: leads one to a random fraudsters page ?

21:13:40 deadweasel: ninjashogun: the mental hurdles people put up for themselves are far higher than the small mental hurdles you have bounded to understand it.

21:13:47 deadweasel: it = btc

21:13:54 mircea_popescu: meh sorry i mean note 6 not 5

21:13:58 ninjashogun: deadweasel - okay. So what happens when YOU explain bitcoin to a newbie?

21:14:00 mircea_popescu: and petey i liked note 3.

21:14:06 deadweasel: ninjashogun: I don't

21:14:07 mircea_popescu: exactly what good art is.

21:14:15 ThickAsThieves: mp, did yo edit the url at some point?

21:14:18 deadweasel: i wait for them to fucking beg me to explain it

21:14:25 ninjashogun: deadweasel ...

21:14:26 ThickAsThieves: or maybe it's cuz a 301 plugin

21:14:31 ThickAsThieves: in WP

21:14:33 deadweasel: ninjashogun: this is not jesus

21:14:44 ninjashogun: deadweasel, now you've lost me :)

21:14:45 ThickAsThieves: ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things

21:14:53 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves no, that's the beauty of it : http://fraudsters.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/

21:14:57 ThickAsThieves: as no one sells things only for bitcoin

21:14:58 mircea_popescu: that leads to the proper article

21:15:10 deadweasel: ah ty, i wish I could grep your blog

21:15:12 mircea_popescu: he fucked up the url somehoiw but i can't tell how.

21:15:16 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, that's not true. Some people uses bitcoin to buy some things. if that weren't true, Tiger Direct wouldn't accept htem.

21:15:39 ThickAsThieves: i found the problem

21:15:40 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I mean I get what you're saying about investors/speculators - but it has actual users of it as currency as well.

21:15:44 ThickAsThieves: his link has %E2%80%8E after it

21:15:52 deadweasel: they don't accept them and less than 1% of their biz is btc. they let Coinbase or Paybit or whatever do it

21:15:56 mircea_popescu: o fuck right you are

21:15:57 mircea_popescu: wd!

21:16:30 ThickAsThieves: no ninja you dont get what i'm syaing

21:16:37 ThickAsThieves: yes people spend bitcoins

21:16:38 ThickAsThieves: no shit

21:16:40 ninjashogun: deadweasel - fair enough, but I was just addressing "ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things" - though to be fair ThickAsThieves probably meant to say that as a generalization, which is true.

21:16:48 deadweasel: ya

21:16:49 ThickAsThieves: but they dont BUY the specifically to buy things

21:16:54 ThickAsThieves: them*

21:17:04 ThickAsThieves: they buy them to speculate

21:17:10 ThickAsThieves: then maybe they buy things

21:17:24 ThickAsThieves: there are some exceptions

21:17:24 benderp: the thing with the people who buy things with bitcoins, is that eventually they will run out of bitcoins.

21:17:28 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves what about silk road and questionably legal things? Didn't people buy btc specificially for those uses?

21:17:39 moiety: otherwise ninjashogun people would be buying exact amounts for their purchases to get the best conversion

21:17:44 ThickAsThieves: for example, you can only get MPEx account with BTC

21:18:04 ninjashogun: moiety, why would exact amounts be the best conversion?

21:18:13 ninjashogun: moiety, due to the spread?

21:18:16 ThickAsThieves: SR is an exception, not the common motivation to buy btc

21:18:24 ThickAsThieves: it also doesnt exist

21:18:30 ninjashogun: I get that, sure.

21:18:39 moiety: i mean as in, what would be the point in having leftovers if you were only buying it to buy something else

21:18:41 mircea_popescu: sr is still a thing ?

21:18:44 deadweasel: nope

21:18:52 deadweasel: darknetmarkets pop up and down on a weekly basis

21:18:56 mircea_popescu: not that it ever was much of a thing, but for the sake of lulz.

21:18:58 deadweasel: hacked, doxxed, whatever

21:19:06 ninjashogun: Oh....if in all the above you guys meant "you're not going to explain bitcoin Qua Investment to a newbie, and then get them to buy bitcoin" then that's probably true :). I wasn't thinking of it as an investment just then.

21:19:20 ThickAsThieves: right, no reason to trust in tormarkets anymore

21:19:36 ThickAsThieves: probly many people simply kept their contacts

21:19:41 jborkl: http://crypto-comics.com/comic6.html

21:19:43 ThickAsThieves: and buy direct

21:19:47 ninjashogun: moiety - the reason for leftovers is because you might want to buy something else as well? People generally exchange more currency than they will immediately spend, and keep the change to spend on other things.

21:19:52 benderp: ninjashogun: another challenge is the backup and restoration problem.

21:20:17 moiety: nvm

21:20:43 benderp: ninjashogun: the rational thing for long term btc holders is...

21:20:44 deadweasel: benderp: yeah, low hanging fruit, I should have started there.

21:20:45 benderp: to hold btc.

21:20:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a thing in the sense communism is 'a thing' - folks will keep trying

21:20:46 ninjashogun: benderp - yes, probably. Do you think an offline wallet device that just knew its own balance (and displayed it continuously), had no backup or restore functionality, would ease this portion of the hurdle?

21:21:02 benderp: ninjashogun: how could an offline device know its balance?

21:21:04 deadweasel: slightly, but only for the already technically advanced

21:21:06 ninjashogun: benderp, my statement was regarding backup and restoration problems.

21:21:07 mircea_popescu: more like in the sense nerd sex is a thing, but yeah

21:21:18 benderp: no but no

21:21:23 moiety: ok, imma just head off to get a BTC to keep for my 2014 lipgloss purchases .. and perhaps an eyeliner, should i need one brb

21:21:24 benderp: how is an offline wallet going to know its balance?

21:21:29 benderp: ninjashogun: ^^

21:21:34 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: let's work through this. how do you propose the wallet machine is to be communicated with?

21:21:42 asciilifeform: let me guess. dedicated piece of pc software.

21:21:46 benderp: over wifi!

21:21:58 benderp: it's sekyure, doncha no.

21:22:13 ninjashogun: I don't know how an offline wallet will know its balance. For example, if it stays offline and the account receives a transfer for someone, how will it get updated?

21:22:21 ninjashogun: from someone*

21:22:37 ThickAsThieves: it couldnt "know" its balance, but it could sync it

21:22:39 ninjashogun: I just know that conceptually an offline wallet is probably hte easiest thing to understand.

21:22:43 moiety: speaking of nerd sex, karpeles actually once tweeted about how being a nerd in japan was much better as he had talked a japanese chick into marrying him lol

21:22:47 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: please take the time to learn something about how btc actually works

21:22:53 ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, so, conceptually, it would have to be "Ooops, I was wrong." until it syncs.

21:23:12 ThickAsThieves: it could sync by scanning a bar code

21:23:17 *: moiety wonders if he bought her with magic game cards

21:23:19 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. However I'm trying to approach this from the point of view of a user.

21:23:20 benderp: ThickAsThieves: don't encourage him.

21:23:26 ThickAsThieves: :)

21:23:34 deadweasel: moiety: black lotus for a pink lotus!

21:23:44 deadweasel: or yellow lotus?

21:23:47 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: from the point of a luser, a mercedes runs by dwarves under the hood turning a crank.

21:23:51 moiety: lolol!!!

21:23:59 ninjashogun: The issue then would be that the only conceptually accurate device hte users could think of like a physical wallet, would have to be hot all of the time.

21:24:03 asciilifeform: if you want to discuss a hypothetical device, you must approach from the standpoint of the builder.

21:24:11 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, very fair statement.

21:24:18 deadweasel: ninjashogun: we could use toe warmers?

21:24:44 moiety: ninjashogun: all you need now is chip'n'pin for bitcoin and youre all set!

21:25:37 asciilifeform: the only reason anybody even dares to talk about 'hardware wallet' today is that he's weaseled out of the task of building the hard part

21:25:44 ninjashogun: hmmm.

21:25:56 ninjashogun: what do you think of moiety's suggestion? Here is what he's talking about - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN

21:26:28 benderp: even moiety's in on the game now

21:26:31 asciilifeform: that'd be something like 'trezor'

21:26:34 ninjashogun: So in this sense the physical bitcoin 'wallet' would be a smart card with a PIN. It would NOT know its balance. However, people are very used to this mode of money use.

21:26:42 asciilifeform: all this does is store keys

21:26:54 asciilifeform: the luser is still relying on a pc to actually crank the protocol

21:27:07 asciilifeform: either his own, or some charlatan's remote box

21:27:23 benderp: hardware wallets are actually more complex and a greater pain in the ass. users must understand transactions, how to generate one, how to sign one, and how to transmit one.

21:27:31 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, if you moved trezor into the form factor of an ATM card with a PIN, and using the same technology - then it would be interesting.

21:27:41 benderp: interesting!?

21:27:43 ninjashogun: then its readers would be connected to the bitcoin network instead of to a bank network.

21:27:51 benderp: interesting over useful?!

21:27:57 ninjashogun: both.

21:28:04 asciilifeform: 'atm using btc' is old hat

21:28:28 ninjashogun: I mean if you took Trezor and made it look like an ATM card, by shrinking it down to the same chip size. (chip and pin)

21:28:41 asciilifeform: what is the point of this?

21:28:51 asciilifeform: all you'll get is angry idiots who stuff it in an ordinary atm

21:28:59 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, we were discussing what it would take for everyone to understand and use it :)

21:29:05 asciilifeform: use it where ?!

21:29:18 asciilifeform: might as well make it thin and cylindrical, to stuff up arse

21:29:57 deadweasel: what if you get stuck in an island prison for life with your autistic friend?

21:30:02 deadweasel: you'll need that feature

21:30:03 moiety: sorry i just finished facedesking

21:30:55 moiety: ninjashogun: that was in no way, shape or form a serious comment. my apologies.

21:31:29 deadweasel: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070511/

21:31:30 ozbot: Papillon (1973) - IMDb

21:31:52 moiety: chip'n'pin shouldnt exist for fiat ffs

21:32:01 benderp: .bait

21:32:02 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m00z84bPzr1qzr53co1_1280.jpg

21:32:10 benderp: .bait

21:32:11 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lupgq6GTAG1qzr53co1_1280.jpg

21:32:20 ninjashogun: brb

21:32:38 benderp: .bait

21:32:40 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2grsvAZ3P1qzjc1ro1_500.jpg

21:32:46 asciilifeform: afaik chip & pin is still a crock of shit quite like traditional magstripe (i.e. it doesn't use crypto challenge/response but a fixed secret)

21:32:54 Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: well

21:32:59 Diablo-D3: you're looking at the problem wrong

21:33:03 Diablo-D3: magstripe is 70s tech

21:33:07 Diablo-D3: pin and chip is 80s tech

21:33:11 Diablo-D3: what we want is 90s tech

21:33:42 benderp: plain ol gpg should suffice

21:33:49 benderp: don't see what all the rush is about

21:34:00 asciilifeform: discussion was about classical fiat bank cards

21:34:12 asciilifeform: where the vendors actually have a strong incentive to permit some fraud

21:34:26 moiety: umm #2 please for me benderp

21:35:31 moiety: i think we should use gpg for everything, everywhere, all the time

21:36:00 *: asciilifeform goes to boil some tea using gpg

21:38:01 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it was more on the smart chips in some atm cards.

21:38:18 joecool: asciilifeform: *but* does it lock out after too many failed attemps?

21:38:21 joecool: *attempts

21:39:34 ninjashogun: I think that's a very good idea, moiety, and if you targeted the chip'n'pin form factor (looks like a card) sold with a networked home reader, you could sell them as a plug-in solution to merchants. I'm not 100% sure how card processing works, but it may be possible to piggy-back on that system and let merchants use it as though it were card, meanwhile the back-end processor (your company?) or an intermediate networked de

21:39:34 ninjashogun: vice, is on the bitcoin network.

21:40:00 asciilifeform: pray tell, why does it need to look like a card?

21:40:15 moiety: ok i may have been a little enthusiastic there.. BUT you cannot deny if you were offered gpg tea or normal tea, you would ask for gpg tea

21:40:27 asciilifeform: moiety: i'm about to drink some as we speak.

21:40:32 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it needs to look like a card because that's how people were tricked into using a more secure system before. :) (specifically, chip'n'pin)

21:40:41 moiety: ninjashogun: i have no words. learn about how card processing works first?

21:40:49 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it's more secure to use chip'n'pin because the card info isn't sent in the clear.

21:40:56 ninjashogun: moiety - tell me.

21:40:58 moiety: asciilifeform: please tell me you heated it with lasers

21:41:05 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: if you'd like to trick people, you've the wrong address

21:41:11 moiety: ninjashogun: i don't believe that's my place to do so

21:41:17 moiety: you have eyes

21:41:23 joecool: well i'm already using chip and pin openpgp

21:41:25 joecool: :)

21:41:37 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I meant it (obviously) as a metaphor. Chip'n'pin works totally differently on a fundamnetal architectural level, from a card with a magnetic stripe.

21:42:11 joecool: http://www.g10code.de/p-card.html <

21:42:11 ozbot: g10 Code - Smartcard

21:42:14 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if you took the architectural advantages of a chip'n'pin, and had it in a different form factor (not a card) then people wouldn't have started using it.

21:42:24 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: anyway, take this to the 'trezor' folks, not me. i've personally no interest in manufacturing 'lukewarm wallets.'

21:42:31 ninjashogun: :) :)

21:42:52 joecool: asciilifeform: have you looked at yubikey neo yet?

21:42:55 moiety: your metaphors and sarcasm are very clear... a few lines later ninjashogun (yawn)

21:43:00 Apocalyptic: is trezor still a thing ?

21:43:00 ninjashogun: this has been an interesting conversation. Yes, it's not easy to manufacture. I don't know how much those chips do when powered on but I doubt it's enough to do whatever a lukewarm wallet would need to.

21:43:08 joecool: Apocalyptic: as much as BFL is

21:43:19 ninjashogun: moiety - I'll work on it :).

21:44:33 asciilifeform: one of the things people refuse to understand about 'yubikey' et al is that miniaturization of the keychain/card variety is fundamentally antithetical to genuine security.

21:44:34 moiety: meh we can handle it, i'd work on listening first

21:45:06 ninjashogun: fair enough.

21:45:12 asciilifeform: for instance, where in the keychain could one stuff an analogue rng, auditable with the naked eye and oscilloscope ?

21:45:20 asciilifeform: its shield?

21:45:21 asciilifeform: etc

21:45:40 ninjashogun: but a combination of both does wonders. I would say we hit on several key insights in this conversation - that are also actionable. It might be very hard to make a reality, but at least we know the market is there.

21:46:08 moiety: it's also made it clear, you don't actually read the logs

21:46:17 asciilifeform: the market for cold fusion is also there.

21:46:21 thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe

21:46:21 assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00081576 BTC [+]

21:46:31 asciilifeform: and for philosopher's stone.

21:46:38 mike_c: wait for it.. here's the part where he asks for funding.

21:46:55 joecool: i'm not that Joe

21:47:02 thestringpuller: wow looks like there will be some interesting things in the logs

21:47:06 thestringpuller: amazing

21:47:06 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

21:47:12 joecool: ^^^^^

21:47:26 ninjashogun: asciilifeform - anyone who has an oscilloscope would not have to use a naked eye :) You can expect someone to have a magnifying lense ($0.50) if they have an oscilloscope ($100)

21:48:11 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, nobody here (or anywhere) has any architectural insights on making the philosopher's stone, or cold fusion, a reality.

21:48:14 moiety: not yet mike_c he got distracted

21:48:26 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: homework. determined the cost of, starting with nothing but idle hands, personally determining exactly what your 'yubikey' does.

21:48:32 asciilifeform: in sufficient detail to build a second.

21:48:41 *: moiety takes out her monacle - amidoinitwrong guise?

21:48:42 mircea_popescu: moiety i'd take green tea

21:48:50 mircea_popescu: and it's a monocle

21:49:15 moiety: aww :( failme have some green [secure] tea

21:49:27 ninjashogun: mike_c - No, I don't have any interest in building a device like that. The only way it would be feasible for a single person who has not made a substantial exit in another company, is if it were strongly patentable. Idon't think it is.

21:49:52 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller what specifically ?

21:49:55 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: what part of this crap do you imagine is patentable?

21:50:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 130 @ 0.006 = 0.78 BTC [+]

21:50:04 asciilifeform: and in what pesthole country

21:50:11 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I just told you, none of it is patentable.

21:50:19 moiety: asciilifeform: Atlantis?

21:50:21 asciilifeform: glad that you understand at least this.

21:50:30 mike_c: ascii, are you patenting anything for snsa?

21:50:38 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, for example mircea_popescu could probably build a physical card that is a "lukewarm wallet" as you put it, he would have the funds, but I don't think he could get his R&D investment back - it would be money thrown away.

21:50:40 asciilifeform: not so much as a shoelace.

21:51:32 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because he could not patent it to protect his R&D research into it. It's a somewhat tough problem due to the very very fine sizes involved, and also the need to have a very low cost of goods if oyu are going to sell it as a plastic cafrd. There's no model that I can think of that would support this.

21:51:32 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: sarcasm so nothing in particular

21:51:39 moiety: mircea_popescu: random side note, have you had white tea?

21:51:50 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521371.0

21:52:12 mircea_popescu: moiety yeah. i've had all sorts of tea once at some sort of "all sorts of tea event" in greenwich village

21:52:22 kakobrekla: i will not admit that.

21:52:23 ninjashogun: :)

21:52:36 mike_c: because you don't think the IP is the important part of things, or some other reason?

21:52:38 mircea_popescu: it's ~==== php isntit.

21:53:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00081119 = 20.807 BTC [-]

21:53:20 moiety: mircea_popescu: i hear it's not very nice... a tea event sounds pretty cool though, to me

21:53:27 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: you were just told why a 'security' gizmo in the shape of a card is inescapably worthless. care to disagree? or do you even read replies at all

21:53:41 kakobrekla: no further comments on the subject were made. everyone lived happily ever after.

21:53:52 mircea_popescu: moiety the cleavage was spectaculay. oodlebunches of starving aspirational chicks wearing their friends' only designer outfit.

21:54:00 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that tone isn't very conducive to development of anything. Not that I care.

21:54:05 mircea_popescu: o shit, i meant spectacular. i guess i... slipped ?

21:54:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00081529 = 25.3963 BTC [+] {2}

21:54:12 asciilifeform: ok, patiently explaining:

21:54:24 asciilifeform: take your yubikey, etc. and disassemble it

21:54:26 asciilifeform: what's inside?

21:54:31 moiety: s'ok i didn't notice cus i was wearing my monacle not my monocle

21:54:49 mike_c: fraudsters seems silent on the topic of patenting IP

21:54:49 joecool: asciilifeform: magic

21:55:28 mike_c: that must be the only topic i've ever looked for that it was silent on :)

21:55:48 mircea_popescu: mike_c http://fraudsters.com/2009/nu-exista-proprietate-intelectuala/ http://fraudsters.com/2009/despre-proprietatea-intelectuala/ http://fraudsters.com/2010/proprietatea-intelectuala/ http://fraudsters.com/2012/nemuritorul-afanti/ etc

21:56:00 mircea_popescu: you just don't read the right languages :D

21:56:00 joecool: damn that didn't take long

21:56:06 joecool: mircea_popescu: are you a bot?

21:56:08 wilimprex: asciilifeform: most importantly the card sw is cloused source and access to sdk is under nda

21:56:15 mircea_popescu: joecool i am a transcend.

21:56:18 asciilifeform: ok here we go

21:56:19 asciilifeform: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4747398370_f53198b421_b.jpg

21:56:22 mircea_popescu: which is worse than a bot

21:56:39 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't like to say it but it's "just" a single-board module around a microcontroller that is a usb device

21:56:54 asciilifeform: ok, now what's inside the micro ?

21:56:59 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, (I don't think this is a good use of the word "just"). But it answers your question regarding what is inside.

21:57:11 asciilifeform: i mean, you can certainly describe it in encyclopaedic terms.

21:57:13 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, flash memory some ram, processor...

21:57:17 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, what are you getting at?

21:57:29 asciilifeform: what would it cost you to determine exactly what the micro does

21:57:36 asciilifeform: and whether it matches what is printed on the box ?

21:58:09 Diablo-D3: [05:56:32] <asciilifeform> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4747398370_f53198b421_b.jpg

21:58:11 Diablo-D3: wtf is that

21:58:17 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: you mentioned a chinese manufacturing contact. ask him. he'll tell you an exact cost, in the currency of your choice.

21:58:26 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you oculdn't determine exactly what the micro does with any amount of money short of a multimilion dollar lab, but if you make reasonable assumptions (such as commodity components not being a highly engineered replacement) you can verify its operation for <$100 in equipment.

21:58:27 asciilifeform: in usd it'll be 5-6 figures.

21:58:34 ninjashogun: sure, yes.

21:58:37 ninjashogun: I agree.

21:58:49 asciilifeform: now why would i wish to buy this product?

21:59:14 ninjashogun: ? The product you linked? So that it escrows your secret and your secret doesn't make it to a file on your PC or your PC memory...

21:59:36 ninjashogun: (or whatever it does that is equivalent)

22:00:21 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: it is trivial to design a crypto-whatever with malicious trapdoor

22:00:41 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, I agree with you.

22:00:49 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, what is your point exactly?

22:00:49 joecool: Diablo-D3: xray of a yubikey neo i'm guessing

22:00:54 asciilifeform: joecool: yes

22:01:02 Diablo-D3: joecool: ahh

22:01:29 asciilifeform: joecool: trying to explain to ninjashogun why a crypto-gizmo like yubikey is fundamentally braindamaged

22:01:54 mike_c: geez, the article is in romanian and french? what's a poor american to do.

22:01:57 ninjashogun: do you know what that circular thing is in the middle of the xray you posted? (showing leads at 10 o'clock and 12 o'clock position)?

22:02:06 asciilifeform: the toggle switch.

22:02:14 ninjashogun: ok

22:02:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00609996 = 0.2196 BTC [+] {3}

22:02:17 asciilifeform: (i thought you owned one of these, it's clear if you do)

22:02:27 ninjashogun: no I don't own one.

22:02:29 asciilifeform: ah ok

22:02:56 wilimprex: asciilifeform: any not open sourced hw/sw is not worht entrusting your data/secrets

22:03:05 asciilifeform: correct.

22:03:09 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay look I get that it's kind of braindamaged. ATM cards are also inherently extremely braindamaged - and loads of people have been ripped off by card swipers, false things they put their card into that is in front of a real ATM.

22:03:15 mircea_popescu: mike_c date a foreign slut, it won't kill you.

22:03:18 joecool: asciilifeform: with that being said do you feel the same way about the openpgp smartcard?

22:03:26 mircea_popescu: well... not in a big way anyway

22:03:27 mike_c: it won't kill me, but my wife will.

22:03:30 asciilifeform: likewise, open source is not enough.

22:03:33 asciilifeform: as described here:

22:03:33 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1299

22:03:34 ozbot: Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.

22:03:52 asciilifeform: it has to be a system that an interested, moderately-educated user might be able to... understand.

22:04:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know it strikes me how much pr/social media you're doing these days

22:04:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm probably just being successfully trolled

22:04:43 ninjashogun: The existence of this: https://www.google.com/search?q=atm+card+skimmer proves that ATM's are architecturally braindead. If a vulnerability vector like this existed even in theory, it would invalidate use of ATM's at foreign, unknown locations.

22:05:05 asciilifeform: joecool: no reason why the above doesn't apply to the gpg smartcard.

22:05:06 ninjashogun: it means it's a braindead architecture. it shouldn't be possible.

22:05:37 ninjashogun: That doesn't mean that ATM's aren't MASSIVELY useful, even though they are a flawed architecture.

22:05:47 ninjashogun: http://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/atm-skimmer/page/2/

22:05:49 ozbot: atm skimmer — Krebs on Security

22:06:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: trying my hand at doing the kind of thing you do - enlightening stone age man

22:06:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doesn't seem to work terribly well. perhaps my hands simply don't grow from the correct place.

22:06:51 mircea_popescu: you don't have my tools, it's kind of like watching someone build bridges with a hammer

22:06:54 mircea_popescu: not that it can't be done

22:07:08 moiety: it's nothing to do with you asciilifeform, some people are unenlightenable. *sips encrypted hotchocolate*

22:07:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you'd love to take over this 'customer' i'll be happy to sit back and watch.

22:07:28 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I find some of what you have said useful. I wouldn't adopt the tone of enlightening a stone-age man, as I have a lot of experience in several areas that also make my background interesting. we can simply have a conversation you know :)

22:07:28 joecool: mircea_popescu: nice burn

22:08:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because my dosimeter is just about maxed out now.

22:08:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00609997 = 0.1769 BTC [+] {3}

22:08:31 mircea_popescu: eh what's the rush.

22:08:35 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you've brought up good points about drawbacks to a mass-adoption card that is a lukewarm bitcoin wallet accepted directly by merchants. You are right, and htose are real.

22:08:36 mircea_popescu: time is an essential ingredient.