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Transcript for 19-06-2015, 990 lines:

00:05:22 menahem: lol

00:05:32 menahem: this was just released http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/412/banc/rep/rep12jun15-e.pdf

00:05:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HZvI7M )

00:05:54 menahem: nothing worth noting, mostly "take a hands off approach and wait"

00:49:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168261 << hypothetical twist: whole thing is a front by chinese miners, anxious to sell certifiably 'clean' coin to gullible schmucks at a premium

00:49:01 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 23:57:28; trinque: "to ascertain that their bitcoin holdings are not derived from the proceeds of crime." << hilarious

00:53:53 trinque: hey, look there

00:53:56 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: bravo

00:54:11 ag3nt_zer0: yeah thanks to you trinque hehe

00:54:26 ag3nt_zer0: 5 thumbs over here haha

00:56:35 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It wouldn't be the first time

00:56:35 trinque: well, now you know how to make curl and gpg kiss

00:56:46 trinque: inventing bullshit certifications is great business

00:57:07 trinque: reminds me of hearing about someone selling licenses for open source software

00:57:12 trinque: due to govt requirements

00:58:29 ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yes, very cool!

01:00:48 asciilifeform: trinque: sco ?

01:01:01 trinque: heh no, but them too

01:37:54 mats: TIL GNU wdiff is a thing

02:01:35 asciilifeform: http://www.underhanded-c.org << this year's winners

02:01:36 assbot: The Underhanded C Contest ... ( http://bit.ly/1InKdy8 )

02:01:49 asciilifeform: ^^^ required reading for all 'sappers'

02:02:07 asciilifeform: (technically last year. this year's contest not yet began)

02:02:29 asciilifeform: first place medalist is a mega-masterpiece

02:03:03 BingoBoingo: ^ Added to the 21 year plan

02:03:15 asciilifeform: this one was nsa-themed, too

02:03:34 asciilifeform: 'The PiuPiu oversharing site allows users to create PiuPiu accounts and post 140-character messages. The federal government wants PiuPiu to surveil user activity on the site, by archiving any posts that match certain patterns outlined in a national security letter. Subject to the nondisclosure constraints of the letter, PiuPiu may not inform anyone of the surveillance request.'

02:03:46 asciilifeform: 'The underhanded goal is this: write surveil() in such a way that the act of surveillance is subtly leaked to the user or to the outside world. PiuPiu can not reveal the act of surveillance, but your function is technically able to edit the Piu or user structure during scanning. Find a way to alter that data (this alone is a bit of a challenge, since you are not supposed to alter the data, just scan it) in such a way that an i

02:03:46 asciilifeform: nformed outsider can tell if someone is being archived. The leakage should be subtle enough that it is not easily noticed.'

02:39:45 decimation: asciilifeform: C macros are of the devil

03:09:05 ag3nt_zer0: if I were to embark on a learning journey exploring the rudiments of programming, would there be good reason to not start with C? I always like to go to the root of something I am learning, which in my ignorant guesswork I like to think C is one of those root languages, but I have heard whisperings here and there that python is the way to go... any thoughts?

03:09:26 decimation: C is essentially the 'bedrock' of modern computers

03:09:53 decimation: unless you want to make your own computing machine I suggest learning bedrock

03:09:54 ag3nt_zer0: haha ok

03:10:23 mats: on the subject of timezones

03:10:33 mats: am confuse about why London is GMT+1

03:10:39 mats: \o/

03:10:40 decimation: daylight savings

03:10:42 decimation: just like here

03:10:54 mats: oh, that explains it.

03:11:09 decimation: to make things stupid they also go on daylight savings at different calendar days than we do

03:12:03 decimation: also GMT is kinda outdated, the new thing is french UTC

03:15:07 mats: ic

03:16:19 funkenstein_: mayans laughing their asses off at us

03:17:23 decimation: ftp://hpiers.obspm.fr/iers/bul/buld/bulletind.124 < after the leap second, DUT1 will be +0.3s

03:22:11 funkenstein_: while we're on the subject of time, i've been working on building a clock

03:22:27 funkenstein_: it grabs headers from several altcoins and estimates the current time

03:25:10 decimation: as I recall this was needed in the pogo

03:25:33 funkenstein_: the DUT1 was needed?

03:25:44 decimation: no, but some rough clock setting

03:25:55 decimation: because nobody wanted to trust ntp

03:26:46 BingoBoingo: <funkenstein_> it grabs headers from several altcoins and estimates the current time << The proper way to build a clock is with brass, a lathe, and a steady hand

03:30:09 funkenstein_: hehe, well, i guess this is a meta clock

03:30:45 funkenstein_: all it does is collect what miners have said the time is

03:31:03 BingoBoingo: If you just want to count seconds on a C machine http://www.openntpd.org/ is pretty much the gold standard nao

03:31:04 assbot: OpenNTPD ... ( http://bit.ly/1H2lG6N )

03:31:56 decimation: funkenstein_: it would be useful if you could determine time accuracy and variance

03:32:17 decimation: as well as how quickly you can acquire time

03:32:24 BingoBoingo: They had to fight TimeGavin who fought their efforts to clean code and kill retardation

03:33:36 funkenstein_: each coin you add increases accuracy,

03:33:46 funkenstein_: but the whole thing seems somewhat pointless

03:34:03 BingoBoingo: And yes, the shitgnomes fight improvement and cleanliness no matter how seemingly trivial a part of the stack janitors want to devomit

03:34:26 BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: And then ATC or Doge abandoment dicks your averaging effort over

03:35:00 decimation: funkenstein_: the point is that you can get time without trusting anything outside verified coins

03:35:10 funkenstein_: decimation, exactly

03:35:53 danielpbarron: why include altcoins at all

03:36:21 funkenstein_: danielpbarron, to get better than ~ 10 min. accuracy

03:36:34 BingoBoingo: "coins" have insufficient entropy to be useful as a precision measure of time at all.

03:36:45 decimation: don't need accuracy

03:37:23 mats: precision and accuracy are different things

03:37:29 BingoBoingo: If you want to measure epochs and years BTC blockheight is fine. If you want a race you want something calibrated against nuclear decay.

03:37:41 BingoBoingo: More random gives you more precise time.

03:37:55 BingoBoingo: Accurate time doesn't happen

03:38:34 funkenstein_: one could always look at the sky

03:38:36 decimation: mats: I'm aware, don't need precision either

03:38:41 danielpbarron: funkenstein_, you aren't limited to just the last block

03:39:30 BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Timekeeping is a battle between astronomy and nuclear chemistry

03:39:46 danielpbarron: could be something like the difficulty adjustment only not limited to the last 2 weeks

03:41:29 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Block height is always going to to a rough measure of time due to entropy. Could make a great system for a calendar, poor for slicing up a day though

03:42:28 BingoBoingo: This though is largely why OpenNTPD beats ISC NTPD http://web.archive.org/web/20050304032724/http://bradknowles.typepad.com/considered_harmful/2004/09/openntpd.html

03:42:30 assbot: Considered Harmful: OpenNTPd... ... ( http://bit.ly/1H2mJnt )

03:44:44 *: BingoBoingo notes that though both are prefixed with shit Shitgnomes and Shitlords are very different things.

03:45:00 BingoBoingo: And are naturally opposed.

03:46:14 funkenstein_: this is liable to get confusing

03:46:26 BingoBoingo: Shitgnomes leave turd traps and prevent nice things. Shit lords bury gnomes in turds to highlight their wretch. Mike Hearnia is a cononical shitgnome. Theo Deraadt and alf are cononical shitlords

03:46:37 BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Everything is heirarchy.

03:46:58 BingoBoingo: Shitgnomes try to ruin the things shit lords want to use

03:47:17 BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Start constructing a memory palace.

03:47:50 mats: i don't understand how your link relates to why OpenNTPD is better than ISC NTPD

03:48:04 mats: you are on the edge of coherence tonight

03:49:09 BingoBoingo: mats: http://www.advogato.org/person/dtucker/diary/52.html << The answer sheet on the ntpd conflict

03:49:10 assbot: Advogato: Blog for dtucker ... ( http://bit.ly/1H2nnBr )

03:49:52 funkenstein_: when the two shitplates touch: shitquake

03:50:43 BingoBoingo: Indeed

03:55:13 BingoBoingo: Eventually such a shitquake will happen such that we start printing upclocked Z80 processors on a 7nm process

03:55:45 mats: this is too cult-y for me

03:56:33 decimation: mats: I'm similiarly lost

03:56:39 decimation: how many sheets to the wind are you?

03:57:31 BingoBoingo: About 4 sheets

04:01:15 BingoBoingo: I swear I had a solid case for OpenNTPD over ISC NTPD, but the opinions on timekeeping are kept in a treacherous antipode

04:03:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52548 @ 0.00043508 = 22.8626 BTC [-]

04:14:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23229 @ 0.00043787 = 10.1713 BTC [+]

04:16:49 mats: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a16087/beats-headphones-weighted

04:16:50 assbot: Four Tiny Pieces of Metal Keep Beats Headphones From Feeling Cheap ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cgd7Os )

04:18:40 mats: http://www.businessinsider.com/paid-actors-at-donald-trump-announcement-2015-6 << already creating jobs

04:18:41 assbot: REPORT: Donald Trump paid actors for his 2016 announcement - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1CgdfNU )

04:19:24 BingoBoingo: mats: Anything work for your carpal tunnel yet? I've got an angry wrist nerve I am trying to conquer

04:19:43 mats: nope

04:19:54 decimation: mats: the beats thing still pisses me off

04:20:12 decimation: a company like sennheiser makes actual headphones, with specifications and everything

04:20:29 decimation: some dumbfucks make shit plastic and get $3bil

04:20:39 mats: am seriously considering going under the knife in spite of the low chance it'll even work

04:21:18 mats: decimation: about to make even more after beats store goes live

04:21:34 BingoBoingo: I mashed up some naproxen with a bit of leaf from the lambs ear outside to use a a carrier. Positive effect for sure, but prolly would be better with some DMSO.

04:22:06 mats: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jun/17/kitchen-gadgets-review-ikettle-boil-phone lol

04:22:07 assbot: Kitchen gadgets review: the iKettle – a world off its rocker | Life and style | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1flIH8H )

04:22:21 cazalla: mats, doesn't every nominee have paid actors do that shit?

04:22:41 mats: BingoBoingo: have been popping ibuprofen like candy

04:22:43 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Most hide it better, a few can save some money on true believers.

04:22:44 funkenstein_: decimation, look at any luxury good for the same racket

04:23:06 mats: am around 2g over last two weeks

04:23:26 BingoBoingo: mats: Your poor stomach. What about trying that stuff topical?

04:23:54 mats: am also applying bengay liberally

04:24:21 mats: i have become my grandfather

04:24:39 BingoBoingo: Ouch. Bengay is basically topical super aspirin

04:24:57 mats: is that good

04:25:20 mats: i was under the impression that it reduces inflammation

04:25:29 BingoBoingo: It does.

04:25:45 BingoBoingo: The salicyclate is the active part of aspirin

04:26:03 mats: its not working

04:28:05 BingoBoingo: I mean you can try a comounding pharmacy for a more extreme replacement for the BenGay. Mixing a different NSAID with amitryptiline or nortryptiline to hit the nerve endings harder

04:28:39 decimation: funkenstein_: yeah I know, people here bitch about the lack of 'adult' products. glitzy candy beats serious in the market every time

04:28:58 BingoBoingo: !up Chicago

04:29:02 mats: decimation: nvm, apparently beats music has been up for some time

04:29:04 funkenstein_: large price tag, heavy advertising

04:29:14 funkenstein_: people buy the price tag, not the weights

04:29:20 Chicago: o/ Hello

04:29:33 mats: hi

04:29:42 decimation: mats: yeah I think it came out a few weeks ago

04:30:22 mats: http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/08/beat-it/ lol

04:30:24 assbot: Beats Music Tells Users To Switch To Apple Music | TechCrunch ... ( http://bit.ly/1CgelZW )

04:31:05 decimation: mats: what is the cause of your pain?

04:31:48 mats: i believe its ulnar nerve entrapment

04:33:20 BingoBoingo: I'm telling you old arthiritic folk love topical tricyclic antidepressants to kill nerve pain, but if truly trapped knife may be an eventuality

04:33:33 mats: I want to know if there's an issue with continuing this regimen of aspirin and ibuprofen

04:33:38 decimation: mats: sucks.

04:33:54 decimation: most folks I know who have knee or back surgery tend to have poor results

04:34:32 BingoBoingo: mats: Do you have an ulcer yet?

04:34:44 mats: BingoBoingo: can i ask for that without a script?

04:34:48 Chicago: mats, I had the left ulnar nerve released in 2010 and still do the meds. They're really not so helpful.

04:35:14 Chicago: (intramuscular release)

04:35:16 BingoBoingo: mats: You'd need a script, and you'd need a compounding pharmacy to fill the script.

04:35:34 mats: the meds are not helpful, or the release was not helpful?

04:37:00 Chicago: mats, The release was done and may be needed again in the future. I still have the numbness in 4th and 5th digits of the left hand once in a while (but not as bad as the constant it was prior). The meds though, I think are more for my comfort and not a real treatment. They're not solving anything.

04:37:53 Chicago: Prior to the release, I couldn't feel the keyboard underneath my fingers for 6 months.

04:38:06 mats: a fairly common outcome, i think

04:39:27 mats: maybe its time for us to learn typing with feet

04:39:41 cazalla: gee you guys must spend a lot of time jacking it to require surgery

04:40:14 BingoBoingo: If you find a doctor who can help you go with a heavier topical preparation you can also switch out from ibuprofen to something like diclofenac which is too antiinflammatory to take orally

04:40:25 Chicago: I adapted my workstation heavily. So the change has made a difference in comfort. Now, the desk is about 36" deep and I can rest my arm on it and the keyboard sits deep too.

04:40:56 Chicago: So there is room to have uniform pressure on the lower part of the arm.

04:41:14 Chicago: cazalla, wrong arm

04:41:30 mats: BingoBoingo: no ulcer yet

04:41:31 cazalla: Chicago, ah you don't use both arms?

04:41:45 mats: lo

04:41:51 Chicago: Just my mouth, both feet and my right fist.

04:42:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22426 @ 0.00043022 = 9.6481 BTC [-] {2}

04:42:49 Chicago: mats, I know I've taken the Norco bottle and thrown it _far_ away from me in the past.

04:43:00 Chicago: Sometimes its just too much medicine and I'd like to crap once in a while.

04:43:38 mats: http://time.com/3926593/charleston-killer-flags/

04:43:40 assbot: Charleston: The Meaning of the Suspected Killer's Flags on Facebook ... ( http://bit.ly/1flJTc6 )

04:44:17 Chicago: mats, Does the alleged shooter look autistic to you?

04:44:29 cazalla: i'd bet this guy was a /pol/ack

04:44:29 Chicago: (with the small jaw and all)

04:46:09 mats: no the only remarkable thing about this guy is the bowl cut

04:47:28 mats: id probably go on a shooting spree too

04:47:40 mats: this guy was a victim of bullying for sure

04:48:08 mats: no doubt by some nigs

04:48:14 cazalla: nah, he just wanted to beat brevik's high score and failed miserably

04:48:54 BingoBoingo: !up Vexual

04:52:28 decimation: what about that azn guy who shot up virginia state

04:52:40 decimation: somehow the media didn't talk much about him

04:54:01 cazalla: he was all over it decimation

04:55:00 cazalla: that one came close but still.. no brevik

04:56:32 decimation: well, as yarvin pointed out, brevik struck at the king and failed to kill him

04:57:10 mats: Is that supposed to be a reference to the wire

04:57:15 Vexual: alf+lsd=?

04:57:30 cazalla: mats, you best not miss eh?

04:57:37 Vexual: moores law gets orbited?

04:57:51 decimation: nah it's machiavelli

04:58:05 mats: im uncultured

04:58:51 mats: night

05:09:00 cazalla: anyway here is the dumb and dumber guy's archived facebook https://archive.is/LM2Tt

05:09:01 assbot: Dylann Roof ... ( http://bit.ly/1flLvTj )

05:09:40 cazalla: lol when all his friends are black

05:42:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00044518 = 6.6777 BTC [+]

05:43:03 BingoBoingo: technically

06:41:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00042886 = 7.8481 BTC [-] {5}

06:49:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30950 @ 0.00045121 = 13.9649 BTC [+] {4}

06:58:58 cazalla: jesus fucking christ copypaste, this shit is on every fucking tv station and newspaper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38OZ8ZRsC_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPDvqqarymg

06:58:58 assbot: 8chan theproject - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZ2asx )

06:58:59 assbot: 8chan 7news - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JZ2asz )

07:15:18 punkman: where did those aussie pics come from, just random posters?

07:26:46 copypaste: cazalla: lol i saw one where they said 8chan was shut down

07:32:10 cazalla: punkman, i assume the girls share the pics themselves or their boyfriends take em and share with their mates

07:32:39 cazalla: copypaste, i wouldn't be surprised if they use this bullshit to block 8chan from aus

07:34:18 cazalla: they're pushing through laws to allow blacklists to stop piracy so no doubt they'll use that to expand to other sites

08:03:35 copypaste: cazalla: well the board creator of /aus/

08:03:37 copypaste: remember it's like reddit

08:03:45 copypaste: is a pussy so he deleted the thread after seeing al the news haha

08:03:48 copypaste: he made a sticky about it

08:03:56 copypaste: i backed it up tho

08:04:51 cazalla: well given it's illegal to even view them, i'll stick to /pol/

08:05:07 copypaste: under which law?

08:05:50 cazalla: i don't know specifically (perhap it isn't even illegal)

08:05:55 copypaste: i'm not even sure it's illegal in Aus to host them

08:06:03 copypaste: immoral? perhaps (even i don't think it's immoral)

08:06:05 copypaste: illegal? how?

08:06:30 copypaste: they flipped their shit when i told them in the US that if their boyfriends took the pictures that means the boyfriends own the pictures and only they can write DMCAs

08:06:38 cazalla: not even so much immoral, the women took the pics themselves and this idea 17 year olds are children but 18 year olds are adults is beyond retarded

08:06:40 copypaste: being the subject of a picture has no bearing on anything

08:07:01 copypaste: most of them are obviously overage

08:07:17 copypaste: fat ugly whores the vast majority. i flipped through out of curiosity.

08:07:26 cazalla: well i wouldn't know on account that i've not viewed them

08:07:34 copypaste: hehe of couse.

08:07:37 cazalla: but most australian women are massive sluts

08:07:46 cazalla: (not complaining)

08:07:47 copypaste: i had no choice but to look considering the reports come to me.

08:07:55 copypaste: and some had been uploaded to the site, of course.

08:08:25 cazalla: anyway they're blaming teenage boys but how are they to know it's boys sharing these images? could be gender fluid lesbians for all they know

08:08:53 copypaste: hehe

08:09:47 cazalla: australian wasn't even like this 20 years ago.. i was a teenager in the late 90s and there was none of this

08:09:52 cazalla: australia even..

08:10:21 cazalla: this moral panic has come about in the past 10 or so years

08:11:56 copypaste: it's amusing how people are still adjusting to the internet

08:12:05 copypaste: you are giving younger and younger kids cameras connected to a network at all times

08:12:17 copypaste: what do you expect to happen?

08:13:06 mats: can't sleep

08:13:57 fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/2zYd2CE.jpg

08:13:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1J7sjVU )

08:13:58 mats: i have been considering the possibility of .cn backing the hard fork

08:14:47 mats: if it happens they will have implicitly admitted that their humint indicates nobody else is even close to running a comparable plurality of compute power

08:16:39 mats: https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/pkitutorial.pdf << picked up from BingoBoingo's link earlier, "Everything you Never Wanted to Know about PKI but were Forced to Find Out"

08:16:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GvK11F )

08:17:38 cazalla: copypaste, i'm not even so sure the young girls they interview are upset that their pics are out there but more so it isn't actually anything special once they're included in a directory of hundreds of other girls.. and they thought they were special!

08:19:36 mats: https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-people-s-republic-of-china-stop-the-yulin-dog-meat-eating-festival

08:19:37 assbot: Pétition · President of the People's Republic of China: STOP THE YULIN DOG MEAT EATING FESTIVAL · Change.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1J7sArO )

08:19:52 cazalla: i'm sure mircea_popescu can explain the phenomenon

08:20:16 mats: http://blogs.technet.com/b/mmpc/archive/2015/06/18/understanding-type-confusion-vulnerabilities-cve-2015-0336.aspx

08:20:18 assbot: Understanding type confusion vulnerabilities: CVE-2015-0336 - Microsoft Malware Protection Center - Site Home - TechNet Blogs ... ( http://bit.ly/1J7sD6Y )

08:21:19 cazalla: mats, have you had dog before?

08:21:31 mats: no, but i'd try it if offered

08:21:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36750 @ 0.00044844 = 16.4802 BTC [-]

08:21:49 mats: although i suspect it'd be a lot like eating bear

08:21:55 mats: extra gamey

08:21:59 cazalla: what?! (yeah i'd give it a try)

08:22:09 cazalla: you've had bear?

08:22:25 mats: yeah

08:22:31 mats: would not recommend

08:23:05 cazalla: how do you cook bear?

08:23:19 copypaste: lol are you russian

08:23:36 copypaste: maybe canadian

08:23:40 cazalla: he's asian (chinese yeah?)

08:23:49 mats: i dunno, my buddy is an outdoorsman and offered it to me

08:23:55 mats: he did all the prep

08:24:16 mats: made it like you'd normally do a steak

08:24:31 cazalla: well everyone does their steak a bit different

08:25:19 mats: he put it in the oven and then seared it on a pan

08:25:59 mats: i've heard a lot of varying things about it, i might try bear again if offered

08:26:27 mats: my buddy describes it as being savory and sweet

08:26:56 cazalla: i wish we had more kangeroo products on offer down under

08:27:23 mats: aren't they usually infested?

08:28:13 cazalla: no idea, most butchers (not many butchers around either these days) don't carry it

08:28:47 cazalla: they do export a bit of it though

08:29:16 punkman: I tried a frozen kangaroo steak, I imagine a good quality piece won't be bad at all

08:29:22 mats: i can't think of many things i wouldn't try at least once

08:29:57 mats: cricket burger was very tasty and changed my outlook on new things

08:30:31 punkman: where the crickets mashed into a patty?

08:30:35 mats: yep

08:30:48 punkman: wasn't it all crunch?

08:30:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20835 @ 0.00045652 = 9.5116 BTC [+] {2}

08:31:13 mats: there was a little crunch but i think there was some other filler in there

08:31:22 mats: like eggplant or something

08:31:30 cazalla: never had it but i imagine it taste like prawn heads (love eating those after i've mashed em to make stock for tom yum goong)

08:31:45 mats: ended up tasting like a fairly decent approximation

08:31:52 mats: like tofurkey

08:32:18 cazalla: TIL about tofurkey

08:32:41 cazalla: not sure i'd eat that.. not a fan of tofu

08:32:56 mats: you'll never be fooled into thinking its meat, but i rather like meat substitutes for their flavors

08:33:34 mats: soy and gluten are very good as bases and soak up whatever you put on em

08:34:30 cazalla: rather use something like beans or lentils

08:35:05 mats: is it the texture that you don't like about tofu?

08:36:30 punkman: even the asian imports guy around here doesn't carry tofu, dunno why

08:50:23 cazalla: mats, not so much the texture but the taste.. it's just bland (or maybe i've only ever had shitty tofu)

08:50:44 Naphex: looking for ad spots for xotika.tv. /msg

08:51:00 mats: i'd say its subtle rather than bland

08:51:13 mats: with the real, high quality stuff, can eat it plain

08:51:42 mats: tofu is kind of an analogue for real chinese cuisine

08:52:39 mats: there's a much bigger emphasis on subtlety thats often misinterpreted as blandness by foreigners whose palettes are accustomed to american chinese food

08:53:07 mats: fried and heavily salted shit, strong flavors like 'orange chicken', 'general tso's chicken', etc

08:55:02 cazalla: yeah my missus and her friend were raving over this yum cha place but i'd never go again, fkn msg on everything

08:59:11 mats: how can you tell

08:59:21 mats: msg presents differently in various things

09:00:11 mats: i'd suggest testing it yourself but nobody ever wants to actually buy msg

09:00:54 mats: try some greens with msg and without, for example

09:01:29 cazalla: well i'm assuming it was MSG but i'm not a fan of it or overly salty shit and that's what it was

09:01:53 mats: i would not be able to identify msg as the culprit for the new flavor profile

09:02:25 mats: thats probably it, too much salt is a common complaint

09:04:55 mats: i think i'll have dim sum this weekend

09:39:18 punkman: mats: i'd suggest testing it yourself but nobody ever wants to actually buy msg < I've bought a bag of msg, it's pretty great

09:39:35 punkman: too much and it ruins stuff of course

09:51:45 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFbsXIyzP-s

09:51:46 assbot: The Boswell Sisters - Stop the sun, stop the moon (1932).wmv - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1SuR14a )

10:45:24 kakobrekla: Naphex how much do you charge?

10:45:33 Naphex: for what?

10:45:43 kakobrekla: ads?

10:46:06 Naphex: i want to place xotika ads, not the other way around :P

10:46:13 kakobrekla: ah

10:46:28 kakobrekla: well, you can buy a bitbet banner slot

10:47:09 Naphex: sounds good

10:47:38 kakobrekla: i think its 0.1 per slot per month if you are interested

10:54:47 wyrdmantis: I was asked if there is a "defense" plan to "isolate" the Bitcoin XT nodes or something similar. I thought this is a non-issue for you guys...

11:04:41 kakobrekla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://bitbet.us/advertising.txt 4c1e5b8b96f489f49e8106a8d9994312d095e869d44599297d315873386ec21d

11:04:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TAjTcF )

11:04:42 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:43:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00043355 = 9.0178 BTC [-]

14:49:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31050 @ 0.00043801 = 13.6002 BTC [+]

15:36:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24943 @ 0.00043846 = 10.9365 BTC [+] {2}

17:07:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00043887 = 3.4232 BTC [+]

17:17:05 BingoBoingo: Derps herping because they don't know what Bitcoin is https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3aenx0/avoid_f2pool_they_are_incompetent_reckless_and/

17:17:06 assbot: Avoid F2Pool: They are incompetent ,reckless and greedy! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lk4pXF )

17:17:56 BingoBoingo: tldr: Pool implements a replace by fee patch, derps herp because it means People can double spend before the transaction is committed to a block!

17:26:02 BingoBoingo: Actual mailing list post highlights that BitcoinXT's behavior is actually broken https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg08422.html

17:26:03 assbot: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lk5JK8 )

17:33:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00043048 = 20.7061 BTC [-] {3}

17:37:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5557 @ 0.00043887 = 2.4388 BTC [+]

17:45:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23229 @ 0.00044922 = 10.4349 BTC [+]

17:59:31 mats: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189

17:59:34 assbot: A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gnr4uX )

18:01:49 mats: am a fan of locking and storing the bolt carrier group and actual weapon separately

18:01:49 scoopbot_revived: Epidemiology is hard to follow. http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/19/epidemiology-is-hard-to-follow/

18:06:57 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:07:29 ascii_field: mats: do you at least have a bayonet? or plan to bludgeon intruder with the butt of the bolt-less rifle ?

18:08:33 mats: not hard to detect an intruder, and there are easy ways to fashion fatal funnels to defender's advantage

18:09:08 mats: could knife the fella or just put the weapon together, takes less than 30s to unlock and load

18:10:11 ascii_field: mats: try to think like usg. police show up, you are alive and slum bunny is dead. prosecutor: 'proof that he had the bolt in. otherwise he oughta be dead.'

18:12:33 mats: so?

18:12:38 ascii_field: so fuck usg.

18:13:35 mats: usg is the only actor id be worried about breaching my home

18:13:52 ascii_field: and you keep the bolt out?

18:13:56 mats: few hoods know to bring four dudes and clear corners

18:13:59 ascii_field: why not keep white flag instead of rifle then ?

18:14:03 ascii_field: for rapid surrender

18:14:41 mats: good idea

18:14:43 ascii_field: what purpose is served by 'bolt separately' other than to satisfy inspectors ?

18:15:14 mats: protect kids from their parents, mostly

18:15:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3188 @ 0.00044922 = 1.4321 BTC [+]

18:17:27 ascii_field: [insert mircea_popescu's article re: 'married men' here]

18:20:15 jurov: heh. so they should be striked out of gun violence stats, got it

18:20:21 mats: http://googleprojectzero.blogspot.nl/2015/06/owning-internet-printing-case-study-in.html

18:20:22 assbot: Project Zero: Owning Internet Printing - A Case Study in Modern Software Exploitation ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnugXa )

18:25:35 mircea_popescu: menahem what's being a hit mean ?

18:25:37 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/themes/fraudsters/images/

18:25:38 assbot: Index of /wp-content/themes/fraudsters/images ... ( http://bit.ly/1ev8sTW )

18:27:46 menahem: mircea_popescu - you're a smash, very popular. :D

18:27:59 mircea_popescu: but how do you know this ?

18:28:09 mircea_popescu: what's the metric ? something.

18:28:12 trinque: https://www.vox.com/2015/6/18/8803721/charleston-terrorism-racism << quick on the draw, aren't they?

18:28:13 assbot: Why calling the Charleston shooting terrorism is important to so many people - Vox ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnvSR0 )

18:28:20 menahem: oh i posted a screenshot, lemme find it

18:28:29 trinque: and look, backed up by tweets!

18:28:30 mats: uniques, the currency of the internets

18:28:51 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla o hey cool beans eh.

18:29:10 mircea_popescu: im uniquely smashing!

18:29:23 menahem: first day of going live: http://screencast.com/t/5Y30zCpvFu

18:29:24 assbot: 2015-06-19_0007 - Saucal's library ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gnw2rr )

18:30:19 mircea_popescu: menahem so is that "130 people checked it out 0 bought" ?

18:30:46 menahem: ecommerce tracking wasn't added until last night

18:30:57 menahem: we had 1 sale of the MP tee :D

18:31:16 mircea_popescu: haha cool.

18:31:18 menahem: i monetized you. :)

18:31:21 mircea_popescu: do i get royalities ?

18:31:31 menahem: haha, free banner ads.

18:32:16 menahem: https://koinswag.com/shop/bitcoin-t-shirt/mpex-bitcoin-t-shirt/

18:32:18 assbot: MPEx Bitcoin T-Shirt - KOIN ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnwvK8 )

18:32:49 mircea_popescu: lol ok

18:34:44 mircea_popescu: if it ever makes you rich, donate to teh bitcoin foundation

18:34:45 mircea_popescu: http://thebitcoin.foundation/treasurer_contract.html

18:34:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnwTs8 )

18:36:14 menahem: that I will do.

18:36:52 menahem: i'll def take some responsibility to fund that in the future.

18:39:18 mircea_popescu: cool.

18:51:57 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:52:26 *: ascii_field tried last night to backport 'dumpprivkey' and 'importprivkey' from phoundation-0.7 and found that relevant data structures are entirely different

18:53:39 ascii_field: i.e. thoroughly gavinized

18:55:05 mircea_popescu: yes, this is why 0.7 was right off when we discussed the branch

18:55:38 ascii_field: also how the fuck did anyone use bitcoin for serious battlefield operation prior to dump-/importprivkey ?

18:55:55 mod6: yah. for now w, i'm told this works as a temp fix: <shinohai> https://github.com/jackjack-jj/pywallet

18:55:56 assbot: jackjack-jj/pywallet · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnzXEE )

18:55:59 ascii_field: iirc there was an external kludge that walked db ?

18:56:02 mircea_popescu: nobody serious to my knowledge has used this software as-is.

18:56:15 mircea_popescu: kind-of why the blind insistence / pretense put forth by the power rangers is so amusing to me

18:56:31 mircea_popescu: seriously, anyone gives a shit abvout what you release ? as anything other than toilet reading material ? when did that happen ?

18:56:51 mircea_popescu: they keep pretending like oh, the miners bla bla. nobody, ever, actually used the shit raw. because you can't, because obvious reasons.

18:58:26 mod6: ascii_field tried last night to backport 'dumpprivkey' and 'importprivkey' from phoundation-0.7 and found that relevant data structures are entirely different << yeah, i found the same thing back 5-6 months ago when trying to do the same thing. glad there seems to be a workaround, i'm told.

18:59:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00044933 = 11.368 BTC [+] {2}

19:04:23 mod6: anyway, I haven't had a chance yet to try out the pywallet.py thing myself; ascii_field lettuce know if it works for ya plz.

19:04:41 mod6: shinohai said it worked for him.

19:04:42 shinohai: @ mod6 worked for me

19:04:47 mod6: ^ :]

19:04:53 shinohai: >.>

19:05:49 shinohai: That is just a hacky thing to me though. Definitely not a full scale solution.

19:06:04 mircea_popescu: !up hazirafel_

19:06:24 mod6: in the case of pywallet.py, it looks like you just have to --dumpwallet, instead of being able to feed it a pub address and getting out a privkey right?

19:06:29 mircea_popescu: sooner or later everyone ends up with a full bitcoin data manipulator built in their favourite language, python or not.

19:06:30 hazirafel_: thanks.

19:06:43 mod6: mircea_popescu: yah

19:06:45 mircea_popescu: it'd be nice if the reference client provided this, however, what with thew "accounts" bullshit and etc in there, i doubt it'll be this decade.

19:08:07 *: funkenstein_ considers bitaddress.org + coinb.in on offline box the reference wallet

19:12:18 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1167863 << this would be a technically correct argument :D

19:12:18 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 19:53:19; nubbins`: unfortunately mp just left so he is unable to inform us that the hallucinogenic effects of drugs don't exist and we're deluding ourselves into pretending to be hallucinating

19:13:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19344 @ 0.00044836 = 8.6731 BTC [-]

19:14:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00042727 = 3.9736 BTC [-]

19:16:27 shinohai: Then once I figure out how to produce these hallucinogenic effects at will in my mind, I shall sell the secrets on Agora and dry it all up.

19:16:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1167881 << so did the gal visiting last night...

19:16:53 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 19:57:49; mats: all i did was walk around naked

19:19:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1167889 << and suddenly another utility of crate of benjies becomes apparent.

19:19:46 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:05:17; ascii_field: trinque: always wanted to try this, but never came close to accessing the dope

19:19:59 trinque: heh

19:21:25 hazirafel_: don't know if this is a good place to ask, but here ... i'm code literate in java , and i really want to learn to know my way around fiddling with blockchains and bitcoin, i would love advice on places to start and where to get help and information. i guess i need to learn C first but i'm looking for more advice. thanks!

19:21:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1167905 << and did he immediately sack the comissioner of police ?

19:21:33 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:07:16; ascii_field: they machine-gunned his dogs

19:21:48 mircea_popescu: and only agreed to hire a replacewment once the replacement swore he is firing every single lieutenant in the department ?

19:23:09 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

19:25:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1167978 << and strangely enough, this ISNT'T the top of social media.

19:25:45 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:26:10; nubbins`: https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2026

19:25:54 mircea_popescu: instead, they're preoccupied with the liberty problems of trans-idiots.

19:26:13 mats: magic mushrooms make me want to poop myself during the entire experience

19:27:32 hazirafel_: i forgot i read that being nice on the internet makes people think you're stupid. any fucking help bit-assholes?

19:27:45 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168010 << this is drastically not how it works. an equivalent of this approach would be "was with a girl dressed in a skirt, had blow job".

19:27:45 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:34:36; ascii_field: nubbins`: can then say 'i took 5ug and discovered proof of goldbach's conjecture' or 'i took 500 and learned that thirty-three is purple'

19:27:46 mircea_popescu: sooooo ?

19:27:55 mircea_popescu: hazirafel_ what do you need help with ?

19:27:58 mircea_popescu: an' who're you anyway ?

19:29:34 mircea_popescu: oh the java c thing.

19:30:09 mircea_popescu: hazirafel_ listen, there is no practical way to understand anything relevant re bitcoin without actually reading the code. and the code is c++. you will have to do this as a first step.

19:30:52 hazirafel_: ok cool. i've been reading the developers guid

19:30:53 hazirafel_: e

19:30:54 mircea_popescu: the alternative, if you are a business person, is to have a programmer "read it to you", but this is expensive and rare a tradecraft, so. expect to spend the next year laying groundowkr, mostly in terms oif reading the codebase and wondering at the wonders of c++

19:31:11 mircea_popescu: the problem with reading the developer guide is the same problem with reading mark twain, the cliff notes.

19:31:41 mircea_popescu: a) not in any sense funny and b) very dangerous, ion that it offers you the illusion of having understood (through recognition mostly) but no actual understanding. which is how people end up writing insecure applications

19:31:44 hazirafel_: who am i? :my name is sarah, i live in the 'holy land' , i did some programming courses in collage but bitcoin actually motivates me to learn the nuts and bolts, was looking around the net, saw a recommendation of this cha

19:31:48 mircea_popescu: (this is true generally, not just here)

19:32:27 mircea_popescu: !gettrust hazirafel_

19:32:27 assbot: hazirafel_ is not registered in WoT.

19:32:29 mircea_popescu: !h

19:32:29 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

19:32:32 mircea_popescu: also, start there.

19:33:03 hazirafel_: mircea you

19:33:20 hazirafel_: mircea you're talking about the developers guide?

19:33:25 mircea_popescu: aha ?

19:34:13 hazirafel_: yeah i need to register. ok so you're saying learn c++ and read the source code?

19:34:34 mircea_popescu: yes.

19:34:37 mircea_popescu: one can drive the other.

19:35:28 hazirafel_: any recommendations for learning c++? how much time do you think is needed for basics? are questions welcome on this chat?

19:35:34 mircea_popescu: also meet Adlai. he's also from the jdif.

19:35:43 hazirafel_: i see

19:36:08 mircea_popescu: questions are welcome, a reasonably intelligent & cultured person (which means 1% of ivy league) should be able to complete this in a year.

19:37:03 mircea_popescu: !up hazirafel_

19:37:33 jurov: for c++ there's alway the K&R canon

19:37:44 hazirafel_: ehh... complete learning C++ or bitcoin literate ? Ivy League doesn't mean shit necessarily, from the people i've met

19:38:19 mircea_popescu: well yeah, but i don't know you, and so i have nfi what reference points to use, and so...

19:38:30 jurov: otherwise, learning programming is mostly individual affair

19:38:45 jurov: you can expect some false starts before you find material suitable to you

19:38:59 mircea_popescu: and, "sufficient proficiency in both c++ and bitcoin so as to be able to follow all the discussion here, and only say something stupid 50% of the time and less, and understand why it's stupid once explained 90% of the time or more"

19:39:34 mircea_popescu: which is my idea of "basics"

19:39:38 mircea_popescu: ymmv

19:40:16 mod6: the logs (see /topic ) have a wealth of knowledge too. the last 6-12 months are worth a read.

19:40:18 hazirafel_: what is mostly discusses here?

19:40:27 mircea_popescu: porn, actually.

19:41:25 mircea_popescu: but yes, k&r is prolly how one should start cpp

19:41:43 hazirafel_: thank you

19:43:21 trinque: davout: saw your feedback re: going through deeds by author. sounds great; I'll try to find time for that

19:43:56 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168746 << k&r concerns exclusively c..

19:43:56 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 19:41:25; mircea_popescu: but yes, k&r is prolly how one should start cpp

19:44:25 ascii_field: cpp is introduced in stroustrup but this in turn breathes not a word re: 'boost' etc

19:45:59 mircea_popescu: ascii_field her starting point was java.

19:47:53 mircea_popescu: which i suspect is actually the result of just how broken school is these days.

19:47:58 mircea_popescu: hazirafel_ how old are you ?

19:48:12 hazirafel_: 26

19:48:20 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-04-2014#626237

19:48:20 assbot: Logged on 15-04-2014 18:34:43; asciilifeform: 'we refuse to produce any more C programmers who are a danger to themselves and others.' -- my old dean

19:49:01 mircea_popescu: aha ok.

19:49:14 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168692 << only of utility to folks with nonzero 'street wot.'

19:49:14 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 19:19:46; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1167889 << and suddenly another utility of crate of benjies becomes apparent.

19:49:25 mircea_popescu: nobody was born with it alfie.

19:49:37 mircea_popescu: it was built, by people, through the process of taking risks.

19:49:39 ascii_field: no but it typically happens in childhood.

19:49:43 mircea_popescu: not so.

19:49:51 ascii_field: the relevant brain circuits, i mean

19:50:18 mircea_popescu: didn't you grow up like sane people, in a sovblok urban development with 1k kids your age / acre and no tv to speak of ?

19:50:37 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes but was then moved to usa where was nearly total hermit since age ~9

19:50:46 mircea_popescu: 9 is old enough.

19:50:56 shinohai: The blockchain is sacred. Don't fuck with it ala Gavin

19:51:01 mircea_popescu: let the unfortunate nato schmucks grown on facebook complain of "brain circuitry"

19:51:07 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168698 << iirc it was state police

19:51:07 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 19:21:48; mircea_popescu: and only agreed to hire a replacewment once the replacement swore he is firing every single lieutenant in the department ?

19:51:17 mircea_popescu: ascii_field does not matter who it was.

19:51:34 mircea_popescu: "your job is to defend, me first of all. you failed. go try your hand at garbage moving."

19:51:40 ascii_field: ^ matters in the sense that mayor of city of college park cannot fire md state police

19:51:48 mircea_popescu: he fires the people he has,

19:51:49 mircea_popescu: not the offenders.

19:52:08 ascii_field: fires them for failing to kill the state police? l0l!

19:52:13 mircea_popescu: if the line is breached, the officers decimate THEIR infantry, not the enemy's

19:52:25 mircea_popescu: even tho it was THE ENEMY that ~actually~ did it.

19:52:30 mircea_popescu: "what were you doing during ???"

19:52:37 mircea_popescu: ascii_field caring is for idiots.

19:52:48 ascii_field: when the muppets open up on one another, i promise to wake up mircea_popescu. though it might have to be over spark-gap radio

19:53:06 mircea_popescu: it's just what you do.

19:53:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27226 @ 0.00042727 = 11.6329 BTC [-]

19:53:10 mircea_popescu: "where were you ? bang."

19:53:44 ascii_field: where was the thread where mircea_popescu observed, 'if they weren't dumb shits we would not even be having this line of thought' ?

19:53:46 ascii_field: applies.

19:53:58 mircea_popescu: myeah.

19:54:15 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

19:54:49 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168695 << why not understand something simple first? like 'pkzip'

19:54:49 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 19:21:25; hazirafel_: don't know if this is a good place to ask, but here ... i'm code literate in java , and i really want to learn to know my way around fiddling with blockchains and bitcoin, i would love advice on places to start and where to get help and information. i guess i need to learn C first but i'm looking for more advice. thanks!

19:55:17 ascii_field: for some reason i can't help but recall the kidz of 1990s who always began with 'where do i learn to write a game like 'doom' ?'

19:55:26 mircea_popescu: because something large is always moire interesting.

19:55:34 hazirafel_: what can i say

19:55:35 mircea_popescu: most kids get into programming because they want to make a mmorpg.

19:55:45 hazirafel_: that's a great motivation

19:55:50 mircea_popescu: which, and i say from bitter experience, is just as large a task as making an os, and so... the largest class there is.

19:56:14 ascii_field: but when you tell them 'write a 1980s-style MUD first' they balk

19:56:20 mircea_popescu: they should.

19:56:27 mircea_popescu: and you'll notice i never tell 'em that. it's a stupid thing to say.

19:56:36 mircea_popescu: "how do i get the girl i love ?" "get some sluts first"

19:56:36 ascii_field: why?

19:56:37 mircea_popescu: what is he, me ?

19:56:56 mod6: haha

19:57:11 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2014#827603 << obligatory thread

19:57:11 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 15:39:53; asciilifeform: every time i see the bed of nails i think of the soviet caricature

19:58:10 mircea_popescu: so there you go.

19:58:47 hazirafel_: you have a point, if i had the inclination into codeing needing to be block-chain literate i would of be swimming in it by my age... maybe

19:58:59 hazirafel_: *needed

20:00:19 ascii_field: but in this case i do not think it is unreasonable to ask kid to learn wtf programming even means, prior to writing 'doom'

20:00:25 trinque: ascii_field: LOL @ "start small"

20:00:31 hazirafel_: in which i mean, liking programming enough.

20:00:32 mircea_popescu: hazirafel_ it's really a lot like racing. to be into racing more than someone cheering in the stands / swimsuit model crowding the finish line, you gotta take an engine apart. grease and all.

20:00:34 mircea_popescu: just what it is.

20:00:42 ascii_field: ^

20:00:50 ascii_field: !s camel has two humps

20:00:51 assbot: 7 results for 'camel has two humps' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=camel+has+two+humps

20:00:57 hazirafel_: well yeah

20:01:21 ascii_field: ^ many would-be 'doom' authors discover that they can't actually stomach the very notion of a machine which behaves precisely as instructed and not 'as intentioned'

20:01:31 mircea_popescu: the advantage is that c++ grease doesn't irritate the skin. the disadvantage is that well... this thing has i would estimate about 10 to 100x more moving parts than a car,

20:01:41 ascii_field: (this may be the ultimate psychological group divide)

20:01:41 mircea_popescu: and the relationships a good two layers deeper/more complex.

20:02:04 mircea_popescu: ascii_field that's nothing but the infancy/adulthood divide. it's not a personal descriptor

20:02:10 mircea_popescu: other than "this adult exhibits intellectual neoteny".

20:02:54 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: recall the little quiz, where the kidz who made consistent errors usually passed the next 4 years, while of the shooters in the dark - none did

20:03:01 ascii_field: (all of these with no prior experience programming)

20:03:11 mircea_popescu: even so.

20:04:27 mircea_popescu: in other news, "the proportion of female faces that are more feminine than the most feminine male faces is much greater than the proportion of male faces that are more masculine than the most masculine female faces."

20:04:39 mircea_popescu: apparently recent research actually settles this point

20:04:50 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/0gGQIg5.jpg

20:04:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1fmChGb )

20:06:24 hazirafel_: i did this course where i wrote in java for 30 hours a week, i have no problem doing it, no pain, didn't love it, it was mildley fun . my problem was organization, i expect it's much worse in C , but i could see it as a motivation for thinking in a more organized way.

20:06:51 hazirafel_: mireca i didn't get your comment about the kidz and the errors

20:07:19 mircea_popescu: my who now ?

20:07:32 mircea_popescu: !up hazirafel_

20:07:45 hazirafel_: "mircea_popescu: recall the little quiz, where the kidz who made consistent errors usually passed the next 4 years, while of the shooters in the dark - none did [23:02] <+ascii_field> (all of these with no prior experience programming)"

20:08:08 mircea_popescu: he said it, and directed it at me, which is why my name is in there.

20:08:20 ascii_field: hazirafel_: this is related to a very old article, entitled 'the camel has two humps'

20:08:23 shinohai: Well those kids learned what *doesn't* work

20:08:36 trinque: wiki.t-o-f.info/uploads/EDM4600/The camel has two humps.pdf

20:08:56 ascii_field: which argued convincingly that a certain essential skill for learning to program cannot actually be taught

20:09:00 mod6: hazirafel_: along with the logs: fraudsters.com if you don't already

20:09:00 trinque: obviously paste the whole thing; escape codes didn't make it in

20:09:28 mircea_popescu: ascii_field incidentally, i suspect the dataset there has a major flaw. to model it : two classes of brothel patrons. class A comes to reception, asks "do the girls here to X ?" ; class B comes to reception, asks "what can girls here do for me ?"

20:09:37 mircea_popescu: which of the two do you propose are more likely to spend money ?

20:09:57 fluffypony: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/how-to-blow-6-billion-on-a-tech-project/

20:09:58 assbot: How to blow $6 billion on a tech project | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnJNGK )

20:10:06 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the latter ?

20:10:22 mircea_popescu: necessarily. the latter propose to select from the set given, the former have a preformed set they compare to.

20:10:35 ascii_field: 'what can they do? -- wash cars. -- ok, my car is dusty, let's wash'

20:10:36 mircea_popescu: now, which would you say is likely to contain the largest proportion of intelligent people ?

20:11:04 ascii_field: fluffypony: winblows ce! in that photo. look carefully

20:11:11 mircea_popescu: fluffypony haha. nothing of the stealth plane yet huh.

20:11:11 fluffypony: I know, lol

20:12:53 ascii_field: 'When JTRS started, software-defined radio (SDR) was still in its infancy. The project's SCA architecture allowed software to manipulate field-programmable gate arrays (FPGAs) in the radio hardware to reconfigure how its electronics functioned, exposing those FPGAs as CORBA objects. But when development began, hardware implementations of CORBA for FPGAs didn’t really exist in any standard form.' << giga-l0l!

20:13:15 mircea_popescu: ascii_field to round up what i mean, class A are perhaps "the shooters in the dark". which means, they have an idea what they want, and programming [as taught] fails to satisfy [which is the fault of the teachers].

20:13:18 ascii_field: as if fpga has ~ever~ (at least since '92 or so) been 'exposed' as anything but the blackest of black boxes

20:13:24 mircea_popescu: this is then mis-represented as "there's something wrong wit hthe patrons"

20:14:28 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: iirc the author of 'camels' did investigate what the 'shooters in dark' had in common - and in all cases, it was an inability to comprehend that the machine is entirely blind to human intent, and to build meaningful mental models of purely mechanistic systems as a class

20:14:48 mircea_popescu: but my proposition is that perhaps he found this because it's what he wanted to find.

20:14:55 mircea_popescu: maybe all the patrons in class A happen to be white

20:15:05 mircea_popescu: and incompetent pinoy brothel owner decides "gringos are assholes"

20:15:25 ascii_field: possible

20:15:30 ascii_field: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/google-to-remove-revenge-porn-search-results << moar lulz

20:15:32 assbot: Google to remove revenge porn search results | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnKtf6 )

20:15:32 mircea_popescu: not "our brothel really fucking sucks, who ever heard of this"

20:16:51 hazirafel_: dose extensive experience with Asperger people count?

20:17:10 mircea_popescu: count in what ?

20:17:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168033 << wait, you think anyone drinks specified purity caffeine in their coffee ?!

20:17:50 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:38:16; ascii_field: would you tolerate this with coffee? booze ?

20:18:10 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i specified 'coffee does not vary by order of magnitude'

20:18:27 ascii_field: (for one thing, if it did, you would typically be dead after a few pulls of the roulette trigger)

20:18:28 hazirafel_: comprehending machines, i guess i'm kidding

20:18:58 trinque: hazirafel_: those types tend to do what they're told; wouldn't call it understanding

20:19:04 mircea_popescu: wasn't it the case caffeine tolerance actually builds to degrees of magnitude ?

20:19:05 trinque: *comprehending

20:19:30 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: different animal vs. 'roll dice to decide how many zeros appear in front of the milligram figure'

20:19:46 mircea_popescu: i guess.

20:19:54 *: mircea_popescu has really nfi what's out there re lsd purity

20:20:03 ascii_field: ditto for something like, e.g., an ordinary cig

20:20:17 mircea_popescu: well ok, getting 2 grams of nicotine would put you out

20:20:22 ascii_field: if it could just as easily contain 1g as 1mg of nicotine, it would be a suicide device

20:21:00 mircea_popescu: pretty much

20:21:15 trinque: this is why you should have friends more reckless than you are

20:21:28 trinque: when it doesn't kill them, great

20:21:30 mircea_popescu: or children

20:21:34 trinque: heh!

20:21:36 mircea_popescu: lol

20:21:43 mircea_popescu: but yes, this is WHY children are reckless.

20:21:50 ascii_field: http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/3ae3wn/guy_was_ordered_to_give_his_ex_half_of_the_stuff/? << in other nyooz

20:21:52 assbot: Guy was ordered to give his ex half of the stuff after divorce. Well, he did. : WTF ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnLfsu )

20:21:52 mircea_popescu: historically, what they've been used for.

20:24:09 ascii_field: as a boy, i saw a '80s sov. film where a couple split up their possessions with gigantic laser

20:24:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168051 << he has a point tho. you are aboput as likely to get 10 doses in one as you are to get 55 cups of latte for ordering 5.

20:24:14 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 20:42:01; *: ascii_field wonders why nubbins` is publicly begging lizard hitler to order his mail opened and tested

20:24:15 ascii_field: and ended with objects like these

20:24:27 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, people who sell very weak stuff prolly lose their custom

20:24:41 mircea_popescu: so, it may vary but it won't vary as drastically as you propose. prolly more in line with coffee/caffeine.

20:24:52 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

20:25:45 ascii_field: http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Halber-Motorradhelm-/00/s/MTAyNFg3Njg=/z/~oIAAOSwl8NVbcHr/$_57.JPG << win

20:25:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnLT9s )

20:26:22 ascii_field: http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Halbes-Apple-MacBook-Pro-/00/s/OTAwWDEyMDA=/z/I4gAAOSwsLtVevMs/$_57.JPG << ultra-portable laptop for ben_vulpes ?

20:26:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GnLXG5 )

20:26:46 mod6: haha

20:28:14 trinque: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Halber-Opel-Corsa-/201368555436?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item2ee2804fac

20:28:16 assbot: Halber Opel Corsa | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1fmDVHP )

20:28:17 trinque: oh that's good

20:28:58 trinque: marriage, not even once...

20:29:42 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/are-prosecutors-using-a-gag-order-to-search-for-reason-com-commenters << take a guess who isn't mentioned

20:29:43 assbot: Are prosecutors using a gag order to search for Reason.com commenters? | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1fmE4v0 )

20:29:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168104 << all this c0khaet!1

20:29:48 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 21:31:46; cazalla: ah i think she's attractive, just has that mousy look.. no cocks either! maybe mp could learn a thing or two from you :P

20:29:59 mircea_popescu: ascii_field obama.

20:34:05 shinohai: @ trinque "marriage, not even once" <<< My motto

20:35:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168137 << yes. a large number of people do, who all seem to be lookingfor the same thing. "someone with experience with gpgtools for mac"

20:35:15 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 22:12:43; ag3nt_zer0: does anyone have experience with gpgtools for mac?

20:35:30 mircea_popescu: i suspect what they mean is, "someone with experience with crapple software that doesn't suck"

20:35:41 mircea_popescu: may be a bridge too far, too thin, too short and too fallen in the water too long ago.

20:35:50 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: and by 'for mac' they almost always mean 'using mac gui'

20:36:05 ascii_field: (normal shell-only gpg builds fine on mac)

20:36:58 mircea_popescu: aha

20:38:33 mircea_popescu: and now, ima go play some eulora. bbl!

20:38:44 thestringpuller: I suspekt the second you put priv keys on a mac they go straight ot the secret iCloud.

20:45:10 shinohai: @ thestringpuller i had a pm from a guy using a mac last night using gpg on a mac (gui) I couldn't help because I know dick about macs.

20:47:39 trinque: shinohai: that macgpg thing seems like a wad of unnecessary crap

20:48:29 trinque: er no, "gpgtools" is the one I had in mind

20:49:09 shinohai: gpgtools was what he was using. I was drinking pernod and told him to fuck off and use linux basically

20:49:13 shinohai: I feel bad now

20:49:22 trinque: no, that's precisely the right response

20:49:55 trinque: I'll happily lead a noob through using the proper tools, but wont bother with someone who refuses to use the proper tools

20:52:51 shinohai: I tried to help him but I m hoplessly out of my element with other OS's no matter how hard I try

20:54:26 mod6: <+trinque> no, that's precisely the right response << i wonder if its easier to just tell mac people to fire up a vm of linux/bsd and just use gpg inside of that?

20:54:38 mod6: but overall, i agree.

20:55:43 mod6: !up ascii_field

20:55:44 trinque: mod6: maybe; I'd like to see a standard piece of hardware recommended at some point

20:56:03 shinohai: I have a shitty laptop that came with Win8, I wouldn't trade it for a Mac even if you added a few btc to the mix

20:56:06 trinque: I might buy one of the pcengines machines ascii_field pointed out soon

20:56:39 shinohai: I must add I put Debian Jessie on that laptop in place of 8

21:04:17 ascii_field: trinque: keep in mind, those have no vga

21:04:41 ascii_field: nor does attaching one through the m-pcie slots appear to work

21:05:25 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168936 << i cannot in good conscience recommend any presently-manufactured general-purpose pc box

21:05:25 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 20:55:44; trinque: mod6: maybe; I'd like to see a standard piece of hardware recommended at some point

21:05:50 trinque: ascii_field: yeah I chose "pointed out" to keep from saying that's your recommended box

21:06:05 ascii_field: it is good for approximately same kind of uses as pogo

21:06:11 ascii_field: (but costs 5x more)

21:06:21 trinque: yeah, I'm thinking this would be a bitcoind dev/build box

21:06:44 ascii_field: trinque: so long as you're ok with operating over '80s-style terminal

21:07:23 trinque: ssh's fine by me

21:07:36 trinque: and was thinking of snagging decimation's terminal

21:07:39 ascii_field: trinque: are you also ok with building own bios ?

21:07:55 ascii_field: (iirc the one it ships with doesn't work)

21:08:12 trinque: I could probably manage

21:08:14 trinque: ah ok

21:08:35 trinque: what's the tooling to write to that run?

21:08:39 ascii_field: gcc

21:08:46 ascii_field: 'coreboot' (formerly aka 'linuxbios')

21:08:49 trinque: I mean flashing the guy

21:08:55 ascii_field: spi

21:09:03 trinque: k

21:09:26 ascii_field: needless to say it's built around amd g-series chip. so when amd kisses good-bye, that's all for this box

21:09:33 ascii_field: in terms of estimating longevity

21:10:03 ascii_field: on account of amd's poor health, i see x86 as being very soon dead to me entirely

21:12:11 trinque: of late I collect two things; old computers/parts and PDFs

21:12:18 trinque: while they can be got, heh

21:12:27 ascii_field: pdf ?

21:12:34 trinque: tends to be the format for papers posted here

21:13:35 ascii_field: most 'old computer' catagory is worthless.

21:14:25 shinohai: There is no such thing as an obsolete computer in my mind, unless it is hopelessly fragmented by usg

21:14:51 shinohai: I just need to find a way to think around it.

21:15:05 ascii_field: the only thing more useless than a modern opaque turd is a 1990s opaque turd that no one is ~even working on~ reverse-engineering today

21:15:21 ascii_field: e.g., various old intel chipsets

21:16:00 ascii_field: i bought a spiffy-looking fanless 486 box some weeks ago, for playing gamez

21:16:04 trinque: ascii_field: no value in collecting say "pre-9/11" hardware?

21:16:06 ascii_field: turned out, it lacks a bios battery

21:16:12 ascii_field: as in, literally no place to emplace it

21:16:13 trinque: asking genuinely, perhaps there's not

21:16:43 ascii_field: trinque: depends very much on whether you can distinguish genuinely valuable things from the kind of garbage i was describing just now

21:17:16 ascii_field: to finish the story, i dug for data sheets for the 'ali' chipset found therein, in hopes of affixing something like a 'cmos battery' - and found, unsurprisingly, nothing

21:17:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34401 @ 0.00042685 = 14.6841 BTC [-] {2}

21:17:43 ascii_field: i would like 486 but not if i have to set up the disk thing every time it turns on.

21:18:27 shinohai: @ ascii_field what are your thoughts on this? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-first-9-computer

21:18:28 assbot: CHIP - The World's First Nine Dollar Computer by Next Thing Co. — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1ITUu7W )

21:18:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6649 @ 0.00041705 = 2.773 BTC [-]

21:18:41 ascii_field: shinohai: idiocy

21:19:09 shinohai: I'd rather build something on my own when I haz knowledge

21:19:11 ascii_field: shinohai: chip is available now, on other boards. yet another 'arm', nothing remarkable about it

21:19:21 *: ascii_field fucking hates 'arm'

21:20:36 shinohai: I can do the same thing with any discarded android, with enuf time

21:21:35 ascii_field: thing is a turd, from the black-box cpu (all 'arm' are builds of opaque licensed blob from uk) to the 'systemd' shit ecosystem that will run on top

21:22:04 shinohai: I <3 Debian but the bloated systemd kills me

21:22:18 trinque: shinohai: try mod6's gentoo build maybe

21:22:28 trinque: has most of the bullshit removed via USE

21:23:05 shinohai: @ trinque I am a dumb fuck that knows nothing about gentoo. I wish I could so I could slap Luke Jr in da face.

21:23:28 trinque: the guide is directly aimed at noobs

21:24:58 shinohai: ping mod6

21:26:56 shinohai: !up ascii_field

21:26:59 trinque: !s mod6 http:

21:27:00 assbot: : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mod6+http%3A

21:27:13 trinque: !s mod6 http

21:27:14 assbot: 398 results for 'mod6 http' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mod6+http

21:27:23 trinque: shinohai: top result

21:33:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00042897 = 5.0618 BTC [+]

21:38:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37682 @ 0.00042897 = 16.1644 BTC [+]

21:51:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17949 @ 0.00044186 = 7.9309 BTC [+] {2}

22:08:12 mod6: !up ascii_field

22:08:35 mod6: trinque: need a link?

22:08:51 ascii_field: back to the 'plz recommend standard hardware that isn't retarded' thing - i can't help but rub in the point here, that we are playing 'junkyard wars'

22:08:55 trinque: mod6: pulled it from teh logz for shinohai

22:09:06 mod6: ok np. just checkin

22:09:09 ascii_field: there ~is not a good answer~ to this question

22:09:23 ascii_field: in the words of orlov, 'try asking a different question, to which there may be an answer'

22:13:52 decimation: ascii_field: re: JTRS < lolfest of usg spending on academitardation

22:14:21 ascii_field: decimation: afaik 100% of usg code that actually ~works~ is 1995 and prior

22:14:33 trinque: ascii_field: my aim is to have something upon which to build buttcoind repeatably

22:14:53 decimation: it's almost dead predictable every time a new tech cycle comes around: usg spends $bil on 'new tech that will save lots of money', fails any gains, actual people working in the field are displaced by carpetbaggers

22:15:01 trinque: after which who knows, I might dare dabble in C++ for the second time in my career

22:15:07 trinque: I've avoided the shit like the plague otherwise

22:15:38 trinque: I have no delusions about having a generally useful computer this decade

22:15:39 decimation: ascii_field: yes, radios that are designed to work as radios rather than platonic ideals of radios do tend to work well

22:16:10 decimation: plus, once you are paying $bil to corba and java developers, they are not gonna listen to some rf engineer who knows about radios

22:20:30 mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> turned out, it lacks a bios battery << oh i recall those shitty boards.

22:20:48 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this thing started life as a winblows-ce (yes) graphical terminal

22:21:00 decimation: ascii_field, others: related>

22:21:02 decimation: http://www.spacewar.com/reports/US_nuclear_bombers_lack_satellite_terminals_for_emergencies_999.html

22:21:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QHctFE )

22:21:33 mircea_popescu: there was a huge cost to, basically, gavinize computers around that time. it's how "mmx" processors came about, and "streamlined" mobos with no batteries etc.

22:21:39 mircea_popescu: it went nowhere, ftr.

22:21:44 mircea_popescu: as all these idiocies ever do.

22:21:53 mircea_popescu: (the "cheap laptop" thing being a recent example)

22:22:01 decimation: mmx is a streaming extension to x86 for processing floating point

22:22:06 ascii_field: except then it becomes ubiquitous

22:22:11 ascii_field: piecemeal

22:22:19 decimation: it's been 'upgraded' 3 more times

22:22:48 mircea_popescu: decimation no no, there was a shitty series of 486 processors

22:23:00 ascii_field: mircea_popescu is thinking of 486dx

22:23:05 ascii_field: (sx rather)

22:23:08 mircea_popescu: oh right right

22:23:15 decimation: yeah the sx was without the floating point unit I think

22:23:17 mircea_popescu: i got the letters wrong

22:23:18 ascii_field: where they snipped the fpu

22:23:22 mircea_popescu: ya

22:23:29 decimation: yeah that's fucktarded

22:23:55 decimation: note the divorce between marketing and technologists

22:23:59 mircea_popescu: aye.

22:24:05 mircea_popescu: this was purely a marketing concoction

22:24:22 mircea_popescu: "because technocomputerology is not masses accessible sufficiently!111"

22:24:27 mircea_popescu: ended up... losing money.

22:25:20 mircea_popescu: How Stars Like Cara Delevingne, Kristen Stewart, & Miley Cyrus Are Leading the Gender Fluid Movement for Millennials << who the fuck are these "stars" ?

22:25:33 ascii_field: a usual gambit is to try to 'luxurify the ordinary' by getting folks used to a crippled item, then re-introducing the missing bits

22:25:38 mircea_popescu: more importantly, how do we know it's not "buncha anon hags are driving the star-fluid movement, wherein everyone thinks they're a star"

22:25:49 decimation: ^

22:26:02 decimation: for instance this dre fellow thinks he knows how to engineer headphones

22:26:04 mircea_popescu: srsly, cara delevingne ?

22:26:09 mircea_popescu: what is this, avril lavigne v2.0 ?

22:26:15 mircea_popescu: is this actually a person even ?

22:26:17 decimation: add a few ounces of metal to the cheapass plastic; charge $200

22:26:33 decimation: apple buys you for $3 bil

22:26:42 mircea_popescu: which you can't spend.

22:26:44 trinque: speaks volumes on apple's present state

22:26:58 decimation: you can spend some of it, maybe

22:27:08 decimation: at any rate the irs definitely taxes your shit on it, even if unspendable

22:27:20 mircea_popescu: omfg! i totally called it. ITS THE SAME LIFTED PHOTOS GUYSE!

22:28:09 mircea_popescu: http://www.google.com/search?q=Cara+Delevingne&complete=0&tbm=isch&sa=X vs http://www.google.com/search?q=Avril+Lavigne&complete=0&tbm=isch&sa=X vs

22:28:10 assbot: Cara Delevingne - Recherche Google ... ( http://bit.ly/1QHdbCO )

22:28:11 assbot: Avril Lavigne - Recherche Google ... ( http://bit.ly/1QHdbCU )

22:28:23 decimation: I thought it was well known that anything to do with 'popular music' is essentially nothing more than a marketing chumpatron

22:28:40 mircea_popescu: apparently

22:28:52 trinque: they take a skinny white chick and feed her into the machine every other year

22:29:19 mircea_popescu: different ones ?

22:29:26 trinque: clone army maybe

22:29:42 decimation: sometimes it helps if she has singing talent, but it's not that important

22:30:15 decimation: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/10/obama-cracks-down-on-airplane-emissions-buys-massive-new-air-force-one/ < Taxpayers currently spend $206,337 for every flight hour aboard Air Force One.

22:30:16 assbot: Obama Cracks Down on Airplane Emissions, Buys Massive New Air Force One - Breitbart ... ( http://bit.ly/1QHdptC )

22:30:16 trinque: decimation: they don't even make 'em do that r&b yodel anymore

22:30:16 mircea_popescu: so i guess they decided they could make more money by keeping fewer clone tanks

22:30:19 mircea_popescu: and call it "gender fluid" ?

22:30:26 trinque: just autotune the shit and put some buzzing synth in there

22:30:43 decimation: greenspun: "(compare to about $25,000 per flight hour to charter (source)). If American Airlines spent this much during the 7-hour flight from London to Boston it would cost $1.44 million for the trip in operating cost (i.e., not including the capital cost of the aircraft) or about $3500 per passenger (i.e., a round-trip coach ticket couldn?t be sold for less than about $7000 plus taxes and fees)."

22:31:41 mircea_popescu: and they sell for... about that ?

22:31:50 mircea_popescu: sooo... ? his point being that airlines are robbing us blind ?

22:32:31 decimation: no his point is that obama's airplane is

22:32:45 decimation: actual round trip ticket to london is like $1k

22:32:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168172 << isn't casual racism an oxymoron, like temporary death or sunday religiosity ?

22:32:48 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 22:36:07; mats: casual racism is the norm here

22:32:55 decimation: so somehow air force one costs 7x regular airliner

22:33:03 mircea_popescu: decimation first class or chimp class ?

22:33:16 decimation: I assume chimp class

22:33:20 mircea_popescu: you don't actually want the president to travel with the immigrands ?

22:33:28 decimation: other presidents do

22:33:35 mircea_popescu: but for this reason.

22:33:45 decimation: I think the uk prime minister flys on british airways

22:34:04 mircea_popescu: but the uk is a sort of egypt.

22:34:08 mircea_popescu: "used to be a great empire"

22:34:58 *: decimation was unaware that svelte transport on grand air-sedan (powered by pure slave money) was needed for greatness

22:35:09 trinque: hell, sounds kinda fun though

22:35:13 mircea_popescu: svelte means thin

22:35:24 ascii_field: i've been reading an autobiography of hans baur, best known as hitler's pilot. he spoke of various folks he had flown, and described how king of bulgaria flew part of a trip with him, then caught an ordinary train

22:35:29 ascii_field: real mindfuck to modern eyes

22:35:57 mircea_popescu: i think modern eyes still understand bulgaria's a shithole.

22:36:03 decimation: ascii_field: the best part of that 20 juli movie with tom cruise were the scenes with hitler's planes

22:36:11 trinque: sounds like folksy pandering

22:36:40 decimation: apparently it was an actual Ju-52 that still flies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_52#/media/File:Ju-Air_Junkers_Ju-52_in_flight_over_Austria.jpg

22:36:41 assbot: Junkers Ju 52 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1QHdYn8 )

22:37:02 mircea_popescu: what was that rocket plane they had, he something

22:37:06 trinque: among the waste in usg, air force one is way in the long tail

22:37:19 ascii_field: fuhrer did not fly in rocket plane.

22:37:27 trinque: and look what happened to him

22:37:30 trinque: dead!

22:37:34 mircea_popescu: trinque im still in shock someone proposed 7k a seat as outrageous. i must be buying in all the wrong places.

22:37:53 decimation: actually $7k per seat is about right for business/first class

22:38:00 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: add another zero and you can lounge in the entire plane

22:38:03 trinque: I'm not a rich guy or head of state, but seems either merits better shuffling around than what I use

22:38:12 mircea_popescu: maybe double, but certainly not the 10 to 100x the article would need it to be

22:38:33 mircea_popescu: maybe someone blew up their math somewhere ?

22:38:36 ascii_field: add yet another 0 and... buy the machine

22:38:51 mircea_popescu: ascii_field what machine you're gonna buy for 700k again ?

22:38:55 decimation: well, you also gotta realize that when air force one is flying, there is usually a fleet of other aircraft for car, plane, etc

22:38:59 trinque: !up ascii_field

22:39:04 mircea_popescu: you intend to fly the guy in an old antonov birotor ?

22:39:18 mircea_popescu: decimation then it's a not very well written/researched article ?

22:39:50 decimation: Greenspun was just making the side point that the aircraft is relatively expensive to operate compared to others in its class

22:39:59 mircea_popescu: but it came out the other way around.

22:42:38 decimation: it might be confusing, but he points out that a 747 costs about $25k per hour for everything

22:42:41 decimation: so it's about 10x

22:43:10 decimation: who knows how that cost is calculated, because an arbitrary number of usg throne-keepers could be bundled

22:43:46 mircea_popescu: so is the idea something like "it costs 10x more to move this one guy than to move these 450 other guys" ?

22:45:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168198 << ahahaha. wut teh fuck

22:45:00 assbot: Logged on 18-06-2015 22:59:55; cazalla: for a moment i was like.. why would jurov not give qntra the scoop? http://www.coindesk.com/latin-america-coinbr-acquires-coinverse/

22:47:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168270 << the clean coins trading thing was a major enabler of the original ponzi (pirate's)

22:47:31 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 00:49:01; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2015#1168261 << hypothetical twist: whole thing is a front by chinese miners, anxious to sell certifiably 'clean' coin to gullible schmucks at a premium

22:47:54 mircea_popescu: because at that time, had he not also run a "buy new coinbases from miners at 110% "business" on the side, people would have noticed they're being paid with their own coins.

22:47:54 ascii_field: how ?

22:47:59 ascii_field: ah

22:48:11 ascii_field: ergo 'taint' exists.

22:48:16 ascii_field: at least for some special cases

22:48:48 mircea_popescu: yes, for the special case where you're running a ponzi equal to the monetary mass.

22:48:52 ascii_field: and it is not hard to establish that a heavy share of miners operates at a loss

22:49:00 ascii_field: so there ought to be a reason for it

22:49:13 mircea_popescu: most oil refineries also operate at a loss.

22:49:41 mircea_popescu: generally, most infrastructure in all times and places operates at a loss, which is why commodification is not particularly welcomed by business people, which is how you get apple.

22:49:54 mircea_popescu: and bad software, and everyone wanting to make their own web app and so on

22:50:06 ascii_field: !s pay for the sun

22:50:07 assbot: 4 results for 'pay for the sun' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pay+for+the+sun

22:51:11 cazalla: https://voat.co/v/announcements/comments/146757

22:51:15 assbot: Our provider, hosteurope.de shut down our servers due to "political incorrectness" | announcements ... ( http://bit.ly/1QHfaXT )

22:51:27 mircea_popescu: heh/

22:52:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168292 << for flavour, "piu piu" is the chirp sound of birds in romanian.

22:52:50 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 02:03:34; asciilifeform: 'The PiuPiu oversharing site allows users to create PiuPiu accounts and post 140-character messages. The federal government wants PiuPiu to surveil user activity on the site, by archiving any posts that match certain patterns outlined in a national security letter. Subject to the nondisclosure constraints of the letter, PiuPiu may not inform anyone of the surveillance request.'

22:53:05 mircea_popescu: and what a chicklet does is "piuie", ie, "makes the piu sound"

22:53:19 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: speaking of, notice that 2014 medalist is (nominally) chick

22:53:24 mircea_popescu: aha.

22:53:42 mircea_popescu: mg cto is also, factually, chick.

22:54:08 mircea_popescu: lack of women in tech is not a problem of women or of tech, but merely of a bunch of dorks going around looking for women in tech in the garbage. well duh, why'd they be in the garbage ?

22:54:12 mircea_popescu: teenage boys go in the garbage.

22:55:08 mircea_popescu: (this is actually an anciend graham post, i subscribe entirely)

22:55:21 mircea_popescu: !s Cichlid

22:55:21 assbot: 2 results for 'Cichlid' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Cichlid

22:56:02 ascii_field: 'A lot more men than women choose to do seemingly irrational things such as become petty criminals, fly homebuilt helicopters, play video games, and keep tropical fish as pets (98 percent of the attendees at the American Cichlid Association convention that I last attended were male). Should we be surprised that it is mostly men who spend 10 years banging their heads against an equation-filled blackboard in hopes of

22:56:02 ascii_field: landing a $35,000/year post-doc job?'

22:56:29 mircea_popescu: aye. 2nd result.

22:56:43 ascii_field: greenspun btw

22:56:45 ascii_field: not graham

22:56:47 ben_vulpes: re: accounts thread and data structures, this imho is why the change addr behavior mneeds a zappin

22:56:50 mircea_popescu: oh right. my bad.

22:57:16 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i could shoot the change-addr thing in the head in ten minutes, but mircea_popescu wants to keep it for some reason

22:57:48 mircea_popescu: "some reason" => "let's keep changes to a needed minimum"

22:59:03 ben_vulpes: is the incurred complexity needed?

22:59:16 ascii_field: personally i see the random-change-addr thing to be as screamingly retarded as memory leak

22:59:36 ascii_field: i'd like to see someone present a coherent argument for the negative here

22:59:38 ben_vulpes: i suppose you'd have us leave testnet in as well

23:00:15 mircea_popescu: the argument was presented last we discussed this. "you can do the things you want to do once you've done the things that must be done and the result works"

23:00:21 mircea_popescu: no dessert as of so far.

23:02:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168374 << quite exactly. fine example of the bezzle moral hazard.

23:02:00 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 04:19:54; decimation: mats: the beats thing still pisses me off

23:02:47 ascii_field: this - sure

23:03:02 ascii_field: but is there an argument actually in favour of the mechanism ?

23:03:22 ben_vulpes: moreover, what all is in this list of 'must be done'?

23:04:02 mircea_popescu: anyway, i agree they're stupid. originally it was "they must go out because they break backups". turned out they don't. now it's "they should go out because they're stupid", which is valid, but also an aesthetic judgement. we're not at aesthetics yet. but eventually, whole wallet scheme needs to be made by someone who's not retarded in the fucking head.

23:04:20 ben_vulpes: wai wut how do they not break backups.

23:04:28 mircea_popescu: !s a process

23:04:29 assbot: 559 results for 'a process' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=a+process

23:05:19 ben_vulpes: oh because a wallet is really a collection of the inputs that a key or set of keys can sign on and so a 'wallet' in the satoshi client parlance is actually not back=up-able if in use?

23:05:26 mircea_popescu: no.

23:07:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168397 << because idiots "should have money too", then there's an infinity of them, before you know it they drive the market. "inequality" is actually a stupid word to describe a functional society, where shit is not being promoted by shitheads.

23:07:21 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 04:28:39; decimation: funkenstein_: yeah I know, people here bitch about the lack of 'adult' products. glitzy candy beats serious in the market every time

23:08:07 mircea_popescu: the only way for the hundred million idiots to not impose their britney spears over anything and everything else is for the hundred million to not have as much as a single cent disposable income.

23:08:30 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168375 < actually sennheiser is meh. here i have a 20$ headphones that beat the shit out of 200 and 350$ sennheisers.

23:08:30 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 04:20:12; decimation: a company like sennheiser makes actual headphones, with specifications and everything

23:09:32 mod6: !up ascii_field

23:10:10 ascii_field: afaik 'good headphone' does not exist

23:10:15 ascii_field: any more than 'good laptop'

23:10:19 kakobrekla: correct.

23:10:39 ascii_field: i put on a 30k set of electrostatic phones in a linguistics lab. air piles to ears instead of wires. still meh.

23:10:48 ascii_field: *air pipes

23:11:00 kakobrekla: senn orpheus ?

23:11:03 mircea_popescu: btw, did we discuss the dude that drove an armored vehicle into some texas something or the other ?

23:12:39 trinque: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/13/dallas-police-shooting-zombie-apocalypse-assault-vehicle-and-troop-transport/ << looks to be the one

23:12:40 assbot: DALLAS POLICE SHOOTING: ‘Zombie Apocalypse Assault Vehicle and Troop Transport’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sx98Gy )

23:12:46 trinque: oh texas, how I love you

23:13:02 mircea_popescu: lol

23:14:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168484 << lol pretty good.

23:14:48 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:06:30; copypaste: they flipped their shit when i told them in the US that if their boyfriends took the pictures that means the boyfriends own the pictures and only they can write DMCAs

23:14:51 ascii_field: kakobrekla: nah, it was long ago

23:15:05 kakobrekla: anyway if anyone is out for headies, 20$ 'superlux 681' will blow away senn hd650 like nothing.

23:15:08 mircea_popescu: somehow "if you made a business you don't own that business", yet "if you have a pair of tits it's your pair of tits"

23:15:12 mircea_popescu: well nao!

23:15:41 kakobrekla: they are a chinas copy of some akg model

23:16:03 kakobrekla: taht got lucky with the end result.

23:17:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168522 << i've had bear.

23:17:44 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:22:09; cazalla: you've had bear?

23:19:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168563 << i absolutely despise tofu.

23:19:59 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:51:42; mats: tofu is kind of an analogue for real chinese cuisine

23:21:05 mircea_popescu: in truth i don't care much about most chinese cuisine either, but not because it'd be bland. because they can't cook. some stuff is actually excellent, but plenty of stuff is "hey, let's throw everything in the kitchen in the same pot. vinegar, oil, sugar, what the hell."

23:21:54 cazalla: agreed, but i didn't want to offend him so i did not mention this heh

23:22:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168568 << i can always tell, because of the tell-tale "metallic" aftertaste a half hour to an hour later, coming from all the exhausted overfired neurons.

23:22:11 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 08:59:21; mats: msg presents differently in various things

23:22:11 scoopbot_revived: Bryan Micon To Return To Las Vegas To Face Charge http://qntra.net/2015/06/bryan-micon-to-return-to-las-vegas-to-face-charge/

23:23:05 mircea_popescu: cazalla that said, a chinese guy had a decent restaurant a mile from my place in ro (actually, conference went there). guy made some incredible baked eggplant

23:24:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168587 << people asking these types of questions have not done their reading.

23:24:32 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 10:54:47; wyrdmantis: I was asked if there is a "defense" plan to "isolate" the Bitcoin XT nodes or something similar. I thought this is a non-issue for you guys...

23:25:08 mircea_popescu: this shit redditards pull where they go about blathering for three months and then pretend like nothing happened and questions can be asked as if just discovered may work on reddit, but it'll give all of them a busted lip irl.

23:25:17 mats: im inclined to say you've rarely had legit chinese cuisine, and if you did and still feel that way... you have an unrefined palette

23:25:31 mircea_popescu: the entire "consensus" bullshit collapsed because i said back in january exactly what the plan is.

23:25:45 mircea_popescu: mats how could i evaluate this ?

23:26:00 mats: chinese folks have had thousands of years of recorded history to develop recipes

23:26:09 mircea_popescu: for instance - i never ate chinese food in places not owned and operated by chinese people.

23:26:32 mats: can't, food is a personal matter. you don't like what you don't like. cultural context notwithstanding

23:26:40 mircea_popescu: mats and cats have had millions of years to develop fishing implements.

23:26:51 mircea_popescu: not necessarily a cogent argument.

23:26:54 mats: alright, man

23:30:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-06-2015#1168597 << im not so sure the replace by fee thing is intelligent.

23:30:42 assbot: Logged on 19-06-2015 17:17:56; BingoBoingo: tldr: Pool implements a replace by fee patch, derps herp because it means People can double spend before the transaction is committed to a block!

23:38:35 mircea_popescu: mats while food is obviously a personal matter, whether one has legit or not legit X food should be verifiable experimentally neh ?

23:41:44 mats: sure. on the other hand, you are a white man, and server or chef might choose to whitewash the meal to appeal to some sense of your palette

23:42:12 mats: but that's unlikely.

23:42:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22901 @ 0.00045837 = 10.4971 BTC [+]

23:43:54 cazalla: that also doesn't really fit with yum cha and the one i ate at was full of chinese so you'd think it was the good one

23:43:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00045139 = 9.6372 BTC [-]

23:44:04 mats: anyway not really a productive discussion, i don't enjoy thai food but i recognize it takes skill

23:44:10 mircea_popescu: well i never ate anything in china, that's for sure.

23:44:26 mircea_popescu: i have no doubt it's food, ie, a product of human industry.

23:44:39 cazalla: mats, i love thai food.. i have a kaffir lime just for this alone

23:45:01 mircea_popescu: ironically, my first exposure to azn cooking was in a thai restaurant

23:45:05 mircea_popescu: i had... the sushi :D

23:45:15 mats: ...why

23:45:21 mircea_popescu: because im weird.

23:45:32 mircea_popescu: i dunno, just, what i orderer

23:45:37 mircea_popescu: ordered*

23:46:16 mircea_popescu: (this was on the boston wharf, so a seafood choice perhaps more easy to understand)

23:47:34 mats: hmm

23:48:58 mats: i think ill have a lobster roll this weekend

23:51:25 mircea_popescu: lobster roles.

23:52:04 trinque: I identify as lobster; this is offensive.

23:53:34 cazalla: you'll be needing yourself a lobster girl then trinque