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Transcript for 19-12-2013, 1027 lines:

00:00:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 32 @ 0.10294155 = 3.2941 BTC [-] {5}

00:01:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 13 @ 0.08 = 1.04 BTC [-]

00:02:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 40 @ 0.01866781 = 0.7467 BTC [-] {10}

00:03:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1900 @ 0.00045 = 0.855 BTC [-]

00:03:47 ll: ooh vtx dump time

00:06:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 23 @ 0.1 = 2.3 BTC [+]

00:09:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 27 @ 0.09998516 = 2.6996 BTC [-] {4}

00:11:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 21 @ 0.1 = 2.1 BTC [+]

00:17:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.093 = 0.279 BTC [-]

00:17:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 602 @ 0.00045 = 0.2709 BTC [-] {3}

00:18:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.093 = 0.372 BTC [-] {2}

00:20:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 377 @ 0.000435 = 0.164 BTC [-]

00:21:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1490 @ 0.00043501 = 0.6482 BTC [+]

00:25:54 KRS|Gotyawallet: colored coins is racist

00:29:24 dub: naggercoin

00:29:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 6 @ 0.1 = 0.6 BTC [+] {2}

00:29:57 KRS|Gotyawallet: used for purchasing fried chicken and watermelon at a discount

00:30:44 topace: mmmmmmm fried chicken

00:31:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.1 = 0.5 BTC [+]

00:36:35 KRS|Gotyawallet: wow there's a name from the past

00:38:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.1 = 0.2 BTC [+]

00:43:52 nubbins`: http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?nick=nubbins%60

00:43:53 ozbot: #bitcoin-otc order book

00:43:58 nubbins`: i'm fishing :D

00:58:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 25 @ 0.05892203 = 1.4731 BTC [-] {15}

01:00:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.0915 = 0.183 BTC [-]

01:01:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.09 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2}

01:02:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.07966666 = 0.239 BTC [-] {2}

01:03:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.07805 = 0.1561 BTC [-] {2}

01:07:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 26 @ 0.02099999 = 0.546 BTC [-] {2}

01:14:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00090851 = 13.6731 BTC [-]

01:23:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 54 @ 0.07703055 = 4.1596 BTC [-] {3}

01:24:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 31 @ 0.05959354 = 1.8474 BTC [-] {5}

01:35:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.022189 = 0.2219 BTC [+] {3}

01:43:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 470 @ 0.00047491 = 0.2232 BTC [+] {6}

01:48:05 benkay: ;;ticker --market btcavg

01:48:06 gribble: BitcoinAverage BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 510.04, Best ask: 511.53, Bid-ask spread: 1.49000, Last trade: 510.13, 24 hour volume: 412704.96, 24 hour low: None, 24 hour high: None, 24 hour vwap: 557.2

01:53:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1010 @ 0.001 = 1.01 BTC

01:54:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 8 @ 0.0999874 = 0.7999 BTC [+] {3}

01:56:22 skylax: can anyone hear me?

01:56:42 bloctoc: they will cease having fiat issues when people cease using fiat

01:57:53 BingoBoingo: bloctoc: On some level people will always continue using some fiat in some role. You have to buy toothpaste sometime.

01:58:50 skylax: the goverenment will always have the power to shut down crypto, they just won't do it yet

01:58:51 bloctoc: you don't anymore have to use fiat to buy toothpaste.

01:58:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.09999989 = 0.3 BTC [+]

01:59:45 bloctoc: whole foods on gyft for example

02:02:45 bloctoc: skylax - how on earth would the government shut down crypto?

02:03:40 benkay: BingoBoingo: it doesn't look like they use localbitcoins. i wonder if that's even an option for them.

02:04:15 BingoBoingo: bloctoc: Why would I want to consider parting with something valuable like BTC for a consumable like toothpast though.

02:04:41 BingoBoingo: Fiat will alway have that niche of stuff too boring to trade BTC for

02:04:55 BingoBoingo: benkay: Who knows

02:07:33 skylax: @bloctoc they could easily block the protocol channels of any bitcoin related subjects. RIght now there is a bit of battle going on between bitcoin and legal institutions, if bitcoin wins, meaning it can bypass the law, then I'm pretty sure a lot of other things in society will probably be used to bypass the law in the same manner.

02:10:08 BingoBoingo: skylax: I think you are mistaken. Bitcoin is now the law and BitBet the court.

02:11:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 136 @ 0.00243997 = 0.3318 BTC [-] {10}

02:11:58 benkay: don't go overboard with the sycophancy now BingoBoingo

02:12:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.09999988 = 0.3 BTC [-] {2}

02:12:11 benkay: *elbow elbow*

02:12:41 bloctoc: skylax you mean like China blocks CNN? There's no battle right now, at most there's fincen bragging that they found a way to fit bitcoin into their own status quo. I really suspect bureaucrats everywhere don't give a shit except that reporters only want to talk about bitcoin.

02:13:15 BingoBoingo: benkay: Sycophants aren't a bad thing, either to have or to be. I will admit though that mircea_popescu has made some poor decisions like Market Making X.idiff.

02:13:54 benkay: that has to have been a painful exercise.

02:14:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.0487 = 0.6818 BTC [-]

02:17:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.07400001 = 0.148 BTC [-] {2}

02:20:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.09999988 = 1 BTC [+] {3}

02:25:26 skylax_: @bloctoc the beaucrats will eventually give a shit if bitcoin becomes too mainstream and manages to manipulate other currencies

02:26:32 skylax: @bloctoc the beaucrats will eventually give a shit if bitcoin becomes too mainstream and manages to manipulate other currencies

02:26:53 skylax: @bloctoc what do you think the future of bitcoin will look like?

02:27:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 198 @ 0.001 = 0.198 BTC

02:27:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 29 @ 0.09499992 = 2.755 BTC [+] {9}

02:28:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00090667 = 5.984 BTC [-]

02:36:14 bloctoc: skylax - A bunch of regulatory functions will be better served by crypto. Monetary policy is the most obvious, but there will be other "industries" that will be made redundant. There will be no more credit checks unless you actually want a loan. SEC no longer needed except for enforcement. Title insurance gone. Toothpaste still around.

02:38:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6476 @ 0.00090532 = 5.8629 BTC [-] {2}

02:38:42 bloctoc: I'm pretty excited about the functionality suggested by mastercoin, ripple, and colored coins. I get that all those are not solid technically yet, but the direction is clearly laid out for those who care to believe.

02:39:59 bloctoc: oh, and cherry trucks on the cover of Rolling Stone.

02:42:54 KRS|Gotyawallet: cherry truck bonus ftw

02:43:53 KRS|Gotyawallet: bloctoc a lot of bitcoiners are not happy with mastercoin for instance because they're saying its centralized and a large portion of the wealth is privately owned

02:43:58 monolithik: mastercoin is a joke. ripple is technologically interesting but will probably be a failure due to high complexity and relative need for centralized trusted parties

02:44:05 KRS|Gotyawallet: ^^^^^^^^^^^

02:44:29 monolithik: colored coins have potential but none of the implementations are of sufficient quality yet

02:46:10 BingoBoingo: Look, if you want to ipo without any gatekeepers isn't cryptostocks questionable enough for you?

02:46:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10640 @ 0.00090425 = 9.6212 BTC [-]

02:47:19 bloctoc: If I knew MP personally, then sure. but MP might be the FBI for all I know.

02:48:03 KRS|Gotyawallet: nah he'd be more like the KGB

02:48:12 bloctoc: … unless "cryptostocks" is more than some generic term. In which case I never heard of it.

02:48:17 KRS|Gotyawallet: or the Somalian Mob

02:48:36 BingoBoingo: bloctoc: Cryptostocks is the Vircurex spinoff Vircurex IPO'd itself on

02:48:57 bloctoc: got it.

02:52:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.27001 BTC [+]

03:00:29 skylax: bloctoc: I suppose the efficiency of crypto will erase many of worthless industries, but crowdsource law is pretty complex and unreliable so some kind of institution will still be present, if somehow someone made crowdsourced law work, then this method would be used in all legal fields such as commercial law and criminal law etc. Also to mention crypto if heavily technology dependent, if the power goes out, we go back to cave

03:23:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00090425 = 2.3058 BTC [-]

03:28:43 bloctoc: …if the power goes out, we go back to cave - yes crypto or no crypto that's true. Same argument for breaking SHA256. As far as crowdsource law it will be nice to see some template corporations that get set up by copy/paste instead of paying a lawyer $10K to copy/paste. For what it's worth, I do think the smart contracts will do that for us.

03:31:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37584 @ 0.00090762 = 34.112 BTC [+] {2}

03:32:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29666 @ 0.00090985 = 26.9916 BTC [+] {6}

03:41:08 skylax: bloctoc: what do you mean template corporations?

03:56:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.001 = 0.3 BTC

03:58:21 Bugpowder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNi1o74DaIk

03:58:21 ozbot: x-dream - the 5th dimension (live in paris) - YouTube

04:13:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00091079 = 13.7529 BTC [+] {3}

04:21:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 98 @ 0.00273497 = 0.268 BTC [+] {4}

04:29:30 mircea_popescu: the20year2 yeah, i handle ipos.

04:36:46 jborkl: Hi mircea

04:38:57 mircea_popescu: hey jborkl

04:39:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bloodcurdingly obnoxious shit. "everyone respect the laws" ? bs.

04:39:51 mircea_popescu: dub beware that yellow snow!

04:41:02 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell dexx7 guy was actually emailing me about the thing. i sent him a list of no's and the way we left it was he's gonna lurk here for a while figure shit out.

04:41:02 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:42:15 Bugpowder: http://www.prweb.com/releases/galtsgulchchile/20131112/prweb11324365.htm

04:44:16 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i never marketmade x.idiff ?! what are you talkin' about ?

04:44:32 nubbins`: galt's gulch chile

04:44:38 nubbins`: i bet it's full of insufferable assholes

04:44:53 Bugpowder: I sold $20k to a nice family of four in Santa Monica

04:44:59 Bugpowder: @ $1200/coin

04:45:10 Bugpowder: I think it was their life savings :(

04:45:21 Bugpowder: They just wanted to move to Chile...

04:45:37 nubbins`: wow

04:45:49 mircea_popescu: nubbins` they were trying to sell me on the thing. i tell you i don't see it, why would you want to go hang out there ?

04:46:01 nubbins`: that's what, like 17 btc

04:46:06 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder is a family of four mean a guy and three women ?

04:46:23 truffles: lol

04:46:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah, I must have confused futures and options

04:46:39 Bugpowder: Geeky father, overbearing fat mother, two incredibly cute blond girls

04:46:47 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: i remember a while back this guy on the forums had a huge thesis-length post about "bitcoin land", a place where bitcoin would be used everywhere

04:46:54 mircea_popescu: sounds dreamy.

04:46:56 Bugpowder: they need bitcoin to go to $2500 to afford their land

04:46:59 nubbins`: he waited 8 or 9 paragraphs before bringing up the drug therapies

04:47:12 Bugpowder: warned them not to manic sell if it were to drop... I hope the held on...

04:47:21 mircea_popescu: nubbins` gotta give junkies credit when they manage to hold off for a thousand words before bringin; it.

04:47:32 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder i'll bet you they're out at ~550

04:47:41 Bugpowder: Maybe 382

04:47:47 Bugpowder: out at 382!

04:47:51 Bugpowder: couldn't take it

04:47:54 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo re options, you gotta understand that ecosystems are born out of shit.

04:47:58 mircea_popescu: if nobody shits nothing grows.

04:48:09 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder it never went as low as 382 did it ?!

04:48:14 Bugpowder: on bitstamp!

04:48:15 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: you gotta do something like that in a city, not out in the woods. e.g. freetown christiania

04:48:16 Bugpowder: it did

04:48:32 xoinfinityox: you should have traded for the girls

04:48:51 mircea_popescu: nubbins` when i was a mobster i didn't wanna go live with all the other mobsters. generally this seems to be a common trend, too, people don't seem to go "a shit, you know what'd be cool ? let's move upstate. the city's a toilet!"

04:49:03 mircea_popescu: xoinfinityox "HOW MUCH FOR THE LITTLE GIRL!!!"

04:49:24 Bugpowder: sup xoinfinityox

04:49:30 xoinfinityox: sup bug

04:49:36 xoinfinityox: I WANT TO BUY YOUR WOMEN

04:49:45 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/embed/GDXYzUlv0S8

04:49:45 ozbot: How much for the little girl? - YouTube

04:49:55 xoinfinityox: i pay only in dogecoins

04:49:55 Bugpowder: I have enough women in my life

04:50:04 nubbins`: lies

04:50:05 Bugpowder: another daughter on the way...

04:50:16 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder it'll suck to be you when you're 50 and old and frail

04:50:19 mircea_popescu: and their periods syncronise.

04:50:30 nubbins`: heh

04:50:37 Bugpowder: I will never be frail

04:50:39 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWcNcJuTHVo << Bugpowder in 10 years.

04:50:40 ozbot: katie kaboom - YouTube

04:50:50 nubbins`: one week each month, the bathroom garbage fills up much quicker than usual

04:51:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 14 @ 0.06771428 = 0.948 BTC [-] {4}

04:52:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.06422222 = 0.578 BTC [-] {3}

04:52:47 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mircea_popescu remind me in 10 years to neg Bugpowder if his "i will never be frail" promise turns out to be made of milk.

04:52:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:53:44 Bugpowder: dude

04:53:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 27 @ 0.06336149 = 1.7108 BTC [-] {3}

04:53:56 Bugpowder: I will be frail around 80 maybe

04:53:59 Bugpowder: I got 45 years

04:54:08 Bugpowder: of strength and virility

04:54:10 Bugpowder: left

04:54:21 mircea_popescu: okok

04:54:28 truffles: 5* years tops

04:54:30 KRS|Gotyawallet: how's the libedo

04:54:43 Bugpowder: babies fuck that up tho

04:54:57 mircea_popescu: they do ?!

04:54:58 Bugpowder: Do you even lift?

04:55:02 nubbins`: ok enough of this, gonna print one more color

04:55:06 Bugpowder: I gotta get my T checked

04:55:09 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:55:16 nubbins`: we got a rush job earlier today, due tomorrow ;(

04:55:17 Bugpowder: my buddy just started getting T supplementation

04:55:18 mircea_popescu: perfect delivery of dyel!

04:55:40 nubbins`: i've got a friend who takes t

04:55:41 pizzaman1337: mircea_popescu: just curious, what do you think bitcoin is worth right now?

04:56:09 mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 1 btc per, exactly.

04:56:19 pizzaman1337: mircea_popescu: and how about in terms of USD?

04:56:19 mircea_popescu: the dollar however, i don't think is worth very much.

04:56:33 Bugpowder: oh shit... They needed their coins to appreciate to $75,000??

04:56:38 mircea_popescu: sorta like a badly managed pmb, i guess some people show green playing with fire, but overall...

04:56:39 mircea_popescu: it's gonna be a loss.

04:56:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.0655 = 0.655 BTC [+]

04:56:52 Bugpowder: Its going to take a while to get to $4,000 / btc I think. Doubt they will be able to hold on

04:57:04 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/

04:57:15 mircea_popescu: so far 90/60

04:57:23 Bugpowder: No more gambling for bugpowder

04:57:38 mircea_popescu: not for you, for them. plunk the whiole thing down on yes :D

04:57:59 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/519/btc-network-difficulty-to-top-1b-before-2014/#c2087 << the experts say so anyway.

04:58:01 ozbot: BitBet - BTC network difficulty to top 1B before 2014

04:59:02 pizzaman1337: so do you think it's currently worth more or less than $500 per coin? (seems to be hovering at around 500)

04:59:06 Bugpowder: lol

04:59:17 Bugpowder: MOAR duh

04:59:31 pizzaman1337: well hey

04:59:32 pizzaman1337: http://fraudsters.com/2013/people-bitcoin-is-not-worth-100-dollars-per-stop-buying/

04:59:32 xoinfinityox: www.gamblersanonymous.org

04:59:33 ozbot: People Bitcoin is not worth 100+ dollars per. STOP BUYING! pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

04:59:50 Bugpowder: That was a long time ago dude

04:59:50 pizzaman1337: he's made calls in the past

04:59:50 mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 a lot changed since spring.

04:59:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 8 @ 0.06328875 = 0.5063 BTC [-] {3}

05:00:06 Bugpowder: coinbase became like a real company and shit

05:00:19 Bugpowder: (not that that is a big thing)

05:00:22 BingoBoingo: Honeslty it is probably worth an amount such that you yourself would have to pay to get an honest answer

05:00:29 mircea_popescu: not that, really, but anyway. seriously pizzaman1337, it's impossible to make a definitive call like that in the current circumstance.

05:00:39 mircea_popescu: we're not imo in dangerous territory, and that's all i care about.

05:00:42 pizzaman1337: ok, just curious

05:00:43 mircea_popescu: mkt can take it from here.

05:00:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 5000 @ 0.001 = 5 BTC

05:01:27 mircea_popescu: i did have the "ppl stop buying" post prepared, but it never got there, so... crisis averted.

05:02:05 xoinfinityox: god damn btc is the wild west

05:02:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 100 @ 0.06281 = 6.281 BTC [-] {2}

05:03:09 mircea_popescu: xoinfinityox it is. and who are you ?

05:03:28 Bugpowder: friend of mine

05:03:51 mircea_popescu: a. hai.

05:04:00 xoinfinityox: whats up man

05:04:05 xoinfinityox: i'm painfully new to all this

05:06:05 KRS|Gotyawallet: mircea_popescu: I was wondering about a follow-up on that one, much time has passed in btc time.

05:06:15 mircea_popescu: which ?

05:06:21 KRS|Gotyawallet: "stop buying bitcoin"

05:06:55 mircea_popescu: i thought we just covered that.

05:07:34 mircea_popescu: moving on, did i mention body stockings are kinda cool ? they should put this in seventeen or w/e kids read, "if you don't own a coupla good ones you're no woman"

05:07:51 mircea_popescu: "make sure you get the crotchless variants"

05:08:15 truffles: pic

05:09:17 mircea_popescu: i'm not sharing

05:09:33 truffles: random one

05:09:39 truffles: from internet

05:09:44 xoinfinityox: lmgtfy

05:09:58 mircea_popescu: .b

05:11:33 BingoBoingo: .bait

05:11:34 ozbot: http://assets.tumblr.com/images/og/text_200.png

05:11:46 truffles: http://www.western-supplies.com/images/legs/ballet-dancer-tights.jpg

05:12:04 mircea_popescu: nah.

05:12:44 mircea_popescu: hahaha nice one ozzy

05:15:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.06282 = 0.6282 BTC [+] {2}

05:15:07 truffles: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3196/3065704658_41018aa653_o.jpg

05:15:19 Duffer1: :((

05:30:13 mircea_popescu: ;;bcstats

05:30:15 gribble: Current Blocks: 275787 | Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 | Next Difficulty In: 404 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 19 hours, 52 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1177706524.89 | Estimated Percent Change: 29.65326

05:30:36 mircea_popescu: holy shit look at that, 30% almost

05:30:39 Bugpowder: yeah

05:30:47 Bugpowder: sipa charts are off the hook

05:31:04 mircea_popescu: i wonder what will be the peak diff.

05:31:17 mircea_popescu: 10^20 ? 10^25 ?

05:31:38 mircea_popescu: 10^15 maybe, tho that seems improbable

05:31:53 Bugpowder: 2.5PH/s gain in 2 weeks

05:31:59 mircea_popescu: yup

05:32:09 mircea_popescu: and nobody is doing this, practyically, acoupla noname shops

05:32:13 Bugpowder: how many total computational power of the worlds is that

05:32:26 Bugpowder: (excluding bitcoin miners)

05:32:40 mircea_popescu: what will it look like when the miner producers dominate the silicon industry on the ground, and are like 5 of the top 20 corps on mpex

05:32:48 mircea_popescu: which by now of course does more in a day than the fiat stock exchanges combined in a week

05:33:06 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder an impressive chunk, no matter how you look at it.

05:33:34 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/ << math is in there.

05:33:35 ozbot: Things that matter these days ; things that don’t matter these days. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mirce

05:38:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00090519 = 20.1857 BTC [-]

05:39:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.0009089 = 9.907 BTC [+]

05:42:20 xoinfinityox: @mircea - good article. this might be a dumb Q but whats the danger of controlling interest in BTC?

05:43:36 mircea_popescu: it may be dumb, but i don't get what it is asking ?

05:44:46 xoinfinityox: you talk about a 51% attack

05:44:48 xoinfinityox: what is that?

05:45:15 mircea_popescu: a 51% attack is the situation where one party controls a majority of mining.

05:45:31 xoinfinityox: why is that dangerous in a BTC context?

05:45:35 mircea_popescu: that party can then do some nefarious choosing in the transactions that get accepted and then rolled back

05:45:47 mircea_popescu: resulting in untrustworthy btc conveyance for as long as their 51% position lasts

05:46:36 monolithik: xoinfinityox: see http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/658/what-can-an-attacker-with-51-of-hash-power-do

05:46:40 mircea_popescu: can of course does not equal will, but giving that sort of an option to anyone is anathema to the bitcoin philosophy and the expectations built around it.

05:47:12 xoinfinityox: gotcha

05:47:16 xoinfinityox: @monolithik thx

05:47:54 mircea_popescu: yeah, the stack exchange link is on point.

05:48:52 xoinfinityox: i gotcha, they can get out in front of the actual chain

05:50:51 mircea_popescu: we're roughly past the point where this is feasible, which is one of the major things tghat changed since back in spring.

05:51:48 monolithik: network consolidation is definitely a problem. Best case scenario IMO: ASIC development hits the point where an increase in ghash/watt would be reducible to a general improvement in human knowledge of semiconductors. At that point bitcoin ASICs will become commoditized like Intel CPUs, and the distribution of hashpower would settle to some equilibrium where power was not too widely concentrated

05:52:44 mircea_popescu: monolithik i tell you, it's when upscale bathrooms come with miners in the tile

05:52:48 mircea_popescu: that's the endgame.

05:53:08 xoinfinityox: i would prefer to be a slumlord with the same tiles

05:53:18 monolithik: question: will people run miners unprofitably to ensure that nobody has a majority share?

05:53:43 Duffer1: mircea what do you base your assumption on that us/china govs are hashing?

05:54:08 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 not rly an assumption. ppl have asked before, but i never said anything.

05:54:21 xoinfinityox: mono: i think once you get the market consolidated to a few big players, they will compete pretty fiercely

05:54:40 mircea_popescu: monolithik mining is roughly slightly unprofitable on the spot today, and has been for a while. on the long term it will remain so.

05:54:47 xoinfinityox: the value of their own coins vs the risk of losing them should keep from cartelizing

05:55:17 Duffer1: if it's not an assumption then how do you know?

05:55:21 mircea_popescu: the thing is, cartels are not really profitable.

05:55:35 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 that's what i do, i spy.

05:55:37 monolithik: will people abandon bitcoin if some kind of nefarious mining cartel forms? Is that enough of a disencentive for the miners to do so?

05:55:56 monolithik: so far, the system has shown to be incentive-safe in practice

05:56:01 xoinfinityox: i dont think mining cartels would really be profitable or efficient

05:56:11 mircea_popescu: people will definitely abandon bitcoin if it fucks up. hash concentration is one such fuckup.

05:56:25 mircea_popescu: implementing any sort of legal controls is more of such a fuckup.

05:56:48 xoinfinityox: for large entities like nations (banks?) i think the value / advantage of ownership would keep them mining

05:56:49 monolithik: agreed. what is your opinion of libbitcoin/darkwallet initiatives?

05:57:02 monolithik: that was directed toward mircea

05:57:12 mircea_popescu: monolithik probably too soon to have one.

05:58:17 monolithik: I read some of the libbitcoin source. It is high quality.

05:58:39 mircea_popescu: the wilson guy definitely means well. i don't see he;s delivering any value yet, but it's way too early. the other thing sounds like it means well, same situation.

05:58:48 monolithik: extensive use of boost::asio for purely async networking.

05:59:09 monolithik: I don't know about most of the other people involved, but Amir Taaki is a talented engineer.

05:59:23 mircea_popescu: he's also bitcoin's chief retard.

05:59:41 monolithik: yeah he is pretty terrible as a spokesperson. But his code is good

06:00:01 mircea_popescu: seems of late he's taken to heart the invitation to do less of the speaking.

06:00:27 mircea_popescu: that can't hurt anything.

06:00:59 monolithik: yeah. I agree with the need to have multiple implementations. Right now the main point of centralization is the core development team.

06:01:12 xoinfinityox: what articles on fraudsters are required reading for getting started with btc?

06:01:31 Duffer1: all of them

06:01:36 monolithik: Obviously there are difficulties with ensuring that they all interoperate properly, but that just leads to better standardization, which is good.

06:01:38 mircea_popescu: that's kinda dying, really. anyway, yes, it's a good use of resources and has been for a while to try and specify the code. bar that, alternate implementations may work.

06:01:59 mircea_popescu: xoinfinityox hit the bitcoin category, can't hurt anything.

06:02:39 mircea_popescu: maybe even make your own list and publish it somewhere.

06:02:41 xoinfinityox: thx

06:02:57 xoinfinityox: sorry for the total n00b question

06:03:05 xoinfinityox: i'm trying to give myself the crash course

06:03:29 mircea_popescu: monolithik exactly. also, if there's going to be improvements to the concept, they may be discovered this way. atm we don't really know what utterly sucks in bitcoin.

06:03:53 Duffer1: xoinfinityox https://www.udemy.com/bitcoin-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-crypto for the technical, fraudsters for perspective

06:04:04 mircea_popescu: sort-of like nobody figured out why ruby on rails utterly sucks until they had tried to make websites in it for a few years and they could never get one secure. then it was pretty clear.

06:05:40 monolithik: mircea: I think that bitcoin or a direct descendant (i.e. forked from the current chain, not some premined crap) will win. It's classic "worse is better".

06:05:40 mircea_popescu: but yeah, Duffer1 has a point, fraudsters isn't exactly a manual, more like that one asshole instructor in karate that just beats the shit out of you and then laughs.

06:05:59 Duffer1: hehe

06:06:01 mircea_popescu: monolithik i agree, but that means little in the context.

06:06:09 mircea_popescu: for instance, people in fiat think fiat will win.

06:07:15 monolithik: (I don't think we are disagreeing with eachother) the best technology doesn't always win. The one that is first to market that is un-shitty enough to provide some value wins.

06:07:32 monolithik: thats why I think altcoins are futile.

06:07:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.28039999 = 2.804 BTC [+] {3}

06:08:32 xoinfinityox: what really distinguishes most altcoins at this point anyway?

06:08:41 Duffer1: quite a lot actually

06:08:54 Duffer1: lower transaction times, different proofs work

06:09:02 Duffer1: proofs of stake

06:09:03 benkay: what's more important is their unifying theme of irrelevance.

06:10:12 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I believe Vircurex is now the Canonical example of the failure of RoR to accomplish anything

06:10:27 Duffer1: there's legit innovation that should occur, alts serve that purpose

06:10:51 benkay: nah. 10m/block is fine

06:10:53 mircea_popescu: monolithik perhaps many alt chains are futile. keeping one on hand just in case makes some sense tho

06:11:00 mircea_popescu: or at least the mkt seems to think so.

06:11:20 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nah, davout's site is the cannonical example opf that.

06:14:58 monolithik: i think that the idea of using a memory-hard hash function (e.g. scrypt a la litecoin) is good, but not enough of a gain to offset the network effects of all the infrastructure built up around btc

06:16:05 toffoo: so mircea_popescu getting back to us/china gov mining, did you just make that up or is it based on any kind of evidence?

06:17:03 mircea_popescu: i didn't just make it up.

06:17:42 toffoo: then what?

06:19:24 toffoo: a vivid dream?

06:20:31 benkay: didn't your name once only have one trailing 'o', toffoo?

06:20:38 benkay: ;;gettrust toffoo

06:20:38 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user toffoo: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=toffoo | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=toffoo | Rated since: Tue Mar 15 18:00:23 2011

06:20:39 benkay: ;;gettrust toffo

06:20:40 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user toffo: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=toffo | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=toffo | Rated since: never

06:21:03 benkay: hah nevermind.

06:21:29 xoinfinityox: NARC GET HIM

06:22:40 toffoo: benkay only very briefly, like the first day

06:22:45 xoinfinityox: really tho it makes sense

06:22:49 xoinfinityox: (gov't mining)

06:23:00 xoinfinityox: if they're gonna seize a couple $MM in bitcoins

06:23:06 xoinfinityox: might as well protect those assets

06:23:10 toffoo: maybe in 5-10years it makes sense, not in 2013

06:23:33 xoinfinityox: gotta protect for the future by starting now

06:23:44 mircea_popescu: toffoo summer of 2013,a ctually.

06:23:59 mircea_popescu: it became a definite a coupla months back, but they had been doing it for a while.

06:24:01 xoinfinityox: I understand mircea not wanting to drop his sources, but I would think you can follow an appropriations bill or something to find the proof

06:24:30 benkay: unless the pentagon's doing it.

06:24:38 benkay: unless any bureau with acceptable operational financing is doing it.

06:24:45 benkay: unless anyone with any real power is behind it.

06:24:57 xoinfinityox: i guess it depends on the purpose

06:26:05 benkay: depends far more on involved individuals.

06:26:44 benkay: the great all seeing eye of USG mk. IV will not of its own make any decisions.

06:26:57 xoinfinityox: you've lost me there

06:27:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.00091006 = 21.3409 BTC [+] {2}

06:27:18 xoinfinityox: what's the hypothetical effect on the market of an announcement that gov'ts are mining?

06:27:27 xoinfinityox: thats kind of what i'mgetting at

06:27:31 benkay: much like walmart does not hate women and want to prevent them from earning dollar parity with men, the .75/1.00 ratio is the accumulation of many individual's decisions

06:27:49 Duffer1: if confirmed i expect the price will rocket

06:27:57 benkay: bafflement and confusion? inability to comprehend relevance of statement?

06:28:08 benkay: i kid..

06:28:57 xoinfinityox: i agree with you that if the goal is defense/intelligence/law enforcement keeping it secret is preferrable

06:29:20 benkay: let's play a thought game

06:29:20 xoinfinityox: or wanting to do anything shady with it

06:29:24 benkay: we sit down to a poker game

06:29:49 benkay: wherein you derive some small benefit from knowing what i plan to do and the motivations behind it

06:30:13 benkay: why would any competent actor in the scenario disclose targets goals strategies or philosophies!?

06:31:16 xoinfinityox: i don't think your analogy fits the situation

06:31:28 xoinfinityox: this isn't about strategy, its about whether the US is playing the game at all

06:31:56 xoinfinityox: a better analogy might be, you sit down and the guy across from you is phil helmuth, or its some random guy

06:32:02 benkay: no, they are playing the game. you were making some sort of claim about their goals vis-a-vis sketchiness.

06:32:21 xoinfinityox: that isn't confirmed at this point

06:32:53 xoinfinityox: i don't doubt mircea's veracity, but one source does not a fact makee

06:33:26 benkay: well by the time one waits for confirmation of a fact the market has long since priced it in typically

06:34:11 xoinfinityox: did the market move based on mircea's article?

06:35:11 Duffer1: germany timezone waking up

06:35:23 xoinfinityox: i'm not trying to argue here - still trying to figure out how this market works

06:35:41 mircea_popescu: <Duffer1> if confirmed i expect the price will rocket << you know it was announced before btc rocketed ?

06:35:53 benkay: arguing is all -assets does, xoinfinityox ;)

06:36:18 xoinfinityox: well in that case...

06:36:28 xoinfinityox: party on ;)

06:36:28 Duffer1: announced?

06:37:31 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 yes, that 16th of oct article linked earlier, is where it was announced. toffoo has been asking me about whence and wherefore ever since.

06:37:46 Duffer1: ah i see

06:37:56 mircea_popescu: put that timeline on a graph.

06:38:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0487 = 0.5357 BTC [-]

06:38:40 benkay: and people wonder why mining is unprofitable.

06:38:48 toffoo: I just saw the article for the first time today, when you linked it earlier..

06:38:59 mircea_popescu: i wonder who was hounding me the next day then hm

06:39:07 mircea_popescu: benkay kinda designed to be that way ya kno ?

06:39:15 toffoo: if it turns there's some truth to the statement, color me surprised

06:39:19 Duffer1: maybe toffo with one o? :P

06:39:19 xoinfinityox: im curious why other news outlets don't pick it up

06:39:20 benkay: yeah i don't quite understand that, mircea_popescu.

06:39:54 Duffer1: no proof = not really newsworthy, regardless of who says it

06:40:20 mircea_popescu: a no twasn't him. my bad.

06:40:21 Duffer1: in this case it's still probably worth paying attention to though

06:40:29 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/6IrvrJk

06:40:36 nubbins`: halfway through a 4-color print run

06:40:46 mircea_popescu: xoinfinityox other news outlets don't practically exist. what's out there ?

06:40:57 mircea_popescu: "hey guise, here's a cool idea, make us president coins narf" ?

06:41:03 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

06:41:31 benkay: mircea_popescu: how does mining being unprofitable make bitcoing work?

06:41:36 benkay: bitcoin*

06:41:50 nubbins`: it encourages people to get the hashrate climbing as fast as fucking possible

06:42:08 mircea_popescu: benkay you read the buffett bit re commodified markets ?

06:42:12 xoinfinityox: @mircea_popescu other news outlets and tech blogs pick up gov't regulation / seizure of btc events

06:42:43 benkay: mircea_popescu: yeah but fail to draw the dots

06:43:07 xoinfinityox: like i said, i'm a total noob at btc but prooof that gov'ts are mining would be a huge headline

06:43:12 xoinfinityox: imo

06:43:22 mircea_popescu: xoinfinityox i guess that may be interesting in the sense pointing the spot lights at airplane wrecks could be interesting. meanwhile in the real war...

06:43:27 benkay: nubbins`: but rational market participants won't buy if their investment never returns, so how does unprofitable mining work forever?

06:43:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3868 @ 0.00090627 = 3.5055 BTC [-]

06:43:39 benkay: or even ever, as a part of the thing?

06:43:41 mircea_popescu: benkay well, the hash power is designed to be commodified. this means it'll always sell just a shade under average cost.

06:43:45 xoinfinityox: i know, im at a really topical level right now

06:43:53 nubbins`: benkay: rational market participants are absent, for starters

06:44:09 xoinfinityox: so accepting that fact as true, where is the real war?

06:44:13 mircea_popescu: rational market participants are individually rational.

06:44:48 nubbins`: benkay: the people buying mining hardware are falling over themselves trying to get it hashing as fast as possible, so they maximize their returns

06:44:54 benkay: some get their goods at an acceptable rate and delivered on an acceptable time, making money etc. this drives others in who make less excellent ops decisions, ruining margin.

06:45:06 mircea_popescu: benkay : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201268.msg2121475#msg2121475

06:45:07 mircea_popescu: " Each proposal to do so looked like an immediate winner. Measured by standard return-on-investment tests, in fact, these proposals usually promised greater economic benefits than would have resulted from comparable expenditures in our highly-profitable candy and newspaper businesses."

06:45:07 nubbins`: sure

06:45:18 mircea_popescu: "Viewed individually, each company's capital investment decision appeared cost-effective and rational; viewed collectively, the decisions neutralized each other and were irrational, just as happens when each person watching a parade decides he can see a little better if he stands on tiptoes."

06:47:28 benkay: your lessons as always appreciated.

06:47:43 benkay: apparently i had to read that post 5 times before it made sense in context.

06:47:55 benkay: and must read it another 5 for penance.

06:48:01 mircea_popescu: that's ok, i just keep linking the same shit over and over.

06:48:08 mircea_popescu: surprisingly, it still delivers benefits way past the 5th repetition.

06:49:15 nubbins`: re: textiles

06:49:18 mircea_popescu: anyway, that;'s a particularly well fit quote. if only the various twentysomething ex-geek now bitcoin financiers & investors had a financial culture.

06:50:29 nubbins`: the 2008 meltdown caused cotton prices to skyrocket for a few months in late 2010

06:50:55 nubbins`: ~4x normal

06:51:09 nubbins`: this was right around the time i started printing

06:51:31 nubbins`: spent several months wondering where the fuck these people on the forums were getting $2 blanks until i realized that was a thing of the past

06:51:58 mircea_popescu: ha.

06:54:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.0629 = 0.629 BTC [+]

07:02:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.001 = 1 BTC

07:03:38 nubbins`: doge is kind of taking over the public consciousness, hey?

07:04:27 truff1es: irc public*

07:04:28 mircea_popescu: notrly.

07:05:35 mircea_popescu: it tried about a decade ago too, failed then too.

07:06:45 nubbins`: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjzDl93HIFo

07:06:45 ozbot: Leonard Cohen - The Partisan / ISLE OF WIGHT 1970 - YouTube

07:07:38 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: That just means Doge has passed critical mass. Expect Old meme to set in soon.

07:08:21 jurov: first came drama-backed currency, then meme-backed, what's next?

07:08:37 benkay: meme:silver::drama:gold

07:08:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.281 BTC [+]

07:09:06 xoinfinityox: next is ryan gosling-backed

07:09:24 xoinfinityox: i don't have a hey girl coin joke yet tho :(

07:10:20 BingoBoingo: xoinfinityox: That's totally old meme, worthless for coining

07:11:02 benkay: genesis block must be at least not be rotting on the floor stinking of irrelevancy.

07:11:40 xoinfinityox: im ryan gosling irl, screw you guys

07:11:53 mircea_popescu: doge was old meme in 2007

07:12:30 benkay: but now it's MRRRNSTRRRRM.

07:12:42 nubbins`: heh.

07:13:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 154 @ 0.00273997 = 0.422 BTC [+] {2}

07:13:12 truff1es: ryan gosling is hot good choice !

07:13:22 benkay: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/world/asia/outrage-in-india-over-female-diplomats-arrest-in-new-york.html?src=recg&_r=0

07:13:46 benkay: security apparatus recruitment pitch: "meet strange new people! put your hand up their butts!"

07:14:56 mircea_popescu: muricans gotta get it in their square jawed skulls that there's a difference between the rich and the poor, and confusing this difference will get you exterminated.

07:15:33 mircea_popescu: fucking travesty of justice, to pretend like you can meddle with the top tier.

07:16:03 benkay: who's going to get exterminated, mp?

07:17:04 jurov: BingoBoingo: you do realize that you have one searchable cavity less?

07:17:29 BingoBoingo: jurov: Sure, but I had no cavities searched.

07:18:02 truff1es: is sticking things in the peen a thing?

07:18:14 BingoBoingo: ;;ud sound docking

07:18:15 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sound%20Docking | The act of inserting one's penis into another man's urethra. See also Sounding and Docking.

07:18:15 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: Sound Docking

07:18:33 mircea_popescu: benkay anyone who believes that, to quote asciilifeform's earlier quoted article, "the U.S. government expects laws to be followed by everyone in the USA" may translate as hassling a foreign high class person

07:18:42 truff1es: i mean like coke silly

07:18:53 xoinfinityox: you stick that in your butt

07:18:59 BingoBoingo: ;;ud sounding

07:19:00 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sounding | The practice of inserting plastic or metal 'sounds' (long thin and very smooth objects) into yours or someone elses uretha. Ultimately leads to str...

07:19:01 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: sounding

07:19:02 KRS|Gotyawallet: (_._)

07:19:05 xoinfinityox: ;;ud boofing

07:19:06 mircea_popescu: or, for the earlier example, anyone who imagines a lower court us judge has the authority to detain strauss, and the testimony of a hotel maid can serve as basis for such

07:19:06 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boofing | The act of inserting drugs into the anus for a longer trip. Most often occurs at Disco Biscuits shows by spun-out kids on ketamine.

07:19:07 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: boofing

07:19:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04515011 = 0.2258 BTC [-]

07:19:50 mircea_popescu: there's just no room in the world for such nonsense. you can arrest a bum because some other bum said so.

07:20:08 mircea_popescu: powerful people get their own courts and their own procedures or else.

07:20:42 benkay: nobody's getting their head chopped off in that case.

07:20:51 xoinfinityox: its true

07:20:58 xoinfinityox: they have special id cards and everything

07:21:16 mircea_popescu: xoinfinityox well apparently they don't anymore, not in india.

07:22:11 mircea_popescu: anyway, this pedestrian equalitariansm has gone way beyond far enough.

07:22:29 truff1es: what evidence did they expect to find with a strip search i dunno what that was about

07:23:00 BingoBoingo: truff1es: Brown skin not created by a spray tan

07:23:21 truff1es: yea but it said state department ordered..

07:23:26 xoinfinityox: its an amurrica thing

07:23:28 BingoBoingo: Never know when you might find a Kardashian as opposed to an actual foreigner

07:23:55 benkay: state department ordered just means that someone in the state department decided she needed a fist up the pooper.

07:24:15 truff1es: umk

07:25:08 xoinfinityox: thats how we send a message in modern politics

07:25:22 xoinfinityox: used to be you sent a fleet of ships out and blockaded a small island nation

07:25:45 mircea_popescu: except the message is "we're much too big for our breeches, please take us down three notches."

07:25:48 BingoBoingo: There are exactly 3 rules for being minimally hassled upon arrest in the United States: 1. Be white and hava a shitty American Accent 2. Wear a suit 3. Don't smell like a hobo

07:25:58 mircea_popescu: and it deffo shall be done.

07:26:41 xoinfinityox: mircea: isn't that the whole point of this channel? :)

07:26:43 benkay: it's not simply los estados unidos, however, it's the entire fiat system. usg simply sits atop it for the meantime.

07:26:57 mircea_popescu: xoinfinityox sort-of. notrly, i think the point of this channel is more like, hm.

07:27:02 mircea_popescu: what was the point of this channel again ?

07:27:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18102 @ 0.00090466 = 16.3762 BTC [-] {3}

07:27:16 truff1es: chattery

07:27:19 benkay: freedom

07:27:20 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think the point was not being -otc?

07:28:02 truff1es: i must say the "rules" in here are the more free in rooms ive frequented

07:28:11 mircea_popescu: i seem to remember simpleminded psychopathy was on the list.

07:28:34 truff1es: laissez faire kinda thing

07:28:40 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I thought the simpleminded part was refuted...

07:28:46 xoinfinityox: unless there is an invisible hand up your anus

07:30:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.28799999 = 0.576 BTC [+] {2}

07:30:27 benkay: actually that does bring up a good point: the difference between psychotic and psychopathic

07:31:03 BingoBoingo: benkay: THe difference is that Vitamin H can surpress the former, but not the latter

07:31:32 truff1es: violent social behavior hmm

07:32:22 xoinfinityox: speaking of

07:32:27 xoinfinityox: im gonna go rob a 7-11

07:32:33 xoinfinityox: cya

07:32:45 BingoBoingo: (By vitamin H I mean Haloperidol and not the bullshit actual medical references are returning)

07:34:57 benkay: mircea_popescu is unsurpressable regardless of his psych status

07:35:12 benkay: i recall something about an entire litre of grain alcohol?

07:36:13 BingoBoingo: WHere?

07:36:49 truff1es: "An earlier version of this article misstated the surname of India’s national security adviser. He is Shivshankar Menon, not Moon." hehe

07:36:49 benkay: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-12-2013&bots=true#407028

07:36:52 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

07:38:58 benkay: i'm just saying

07:39:08 benkay: bitcoin satan is invincible

07:39:49 benkay: at 1m/coin, he will bathe in virgins lactation while taking their virginity six in a session

07:40:18 truff1es: a new legend eh

07:40:30 benkay: at 1b/coin he will hog-tie the entire dev team and make them watch unspeakable horrors

07:41:05 mircea_popescu: benkay i never liked doing virgins

07:41:06 benkay: or even better have their patches to the original client reviewed by his crack squad of c she-coders

07:41:32 mircea_popescu: crack squad of she c-coders ahahaha

07:41:36 mircea_popescu: crack see ? hence c.

07:41:46 assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1512395/plain/)

07:41:46 mircea_popescu: !b 7

07:43:21 benkay: mircea_popescu facts

07:43:51 benkay: must be thoroughly mixed with truth for maximum lulz

07:44:22 mircea_popescu: lol

07:44:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.0628 = 0.1256 BTC [-]

07:44:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, a liter, wasn't grain alcohol tho.

07:44:37 mircea_popescu: plum.

07:45:03 benkay: what abv?

07:53:30 mircea_popescu: what's an abv ?

07:53:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.0629 = 0.1887 BTC [+]

07:54:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00293 = 0.1289 BTC [+]

07:57:48 mircea_popescu: oh. like 105-110 proof, something like that.

08:00:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 21 @ 0.27024998 = 5.6752 BTC [-] {10}

08:21:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00090606 = 12.5942 BTC [+]

08:23:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.0628 = 0.1884 BTC [-]

09:14:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.28499998 = 1.14 BTC [+] {2}

09:19:52 monolithik: well since I asked this question elsewhere and nobody is up, is anyone here knowledgeable about crypto?

09:20:42 davout: mircea_popescu: ranting about rails again heh

09:21:00 mircea_popescu: rar!

09:21:56 monolithik: anyway, is it safe to use djb's nacl library in production to encrypt messages over the wire?

09:25:02 mircea_popescu: too soon to tell

09:26:46 azi`: ruby on rails still exists?

09:28:13 davout: mircea_popescu: so i did a quick test but i couldn't find an order id in the stat or statjson for me to know which order the reported execution is related to

09:29:05 davout: i see a 'Track' field in the statjson that i don't have in the regular stat but it doesn't look like an order id

09:37:47 mircea_popescu: davout as to the track value, http://fraudsters.com/2013/mpex-improved-order-tracking/

09:38:11 mircea_popescu: you diff your book too see what was hit.

09:38:40 davout: yeah, that was the other way i way thinking of

09:39:30 davout: should give the same info

09:40:10 mircea_popescu: azi` notrly.

09:42:20 davout: ok, i see how the tracking field works

09:42:48 davout: how about the case where an order makes it to the book but gets eaten before i get a chance to issue a stat?

09:43:17 davout: it'll appear in the executed orders, possibly among other executions

09:45:55 davout: it's not going to be ap problem for me though, curious tho

09:46:43 mircea_popescu: so it appears among the executed orders. you know it's executed, at what price and what qty.

09:46:47 mircea_popescu: how's this trouble you ?

09:48:14 davout: heh it doesn't, just trying to think about whether there are edge cases that your solution doesn't cover, because you know, that's what i do :)

09:48:42 mircea_popescu: :)

09:49:20 mircea_popescu: don't let me dissuiade you, it's a good thing.

09:49:39 davout: nobody dissuades david francois of nitpicking on edge cases

09:50:44 mircea_popescu: hehe

09:51:24 davout: but from what i understand, simply adding an order id to the reported executions isn't really trivial on your end

09:51:43 davout: WHERE IS YOUR PHP GOD NAO

09:52:05 mircea_popescu: pgp god ?

09:52:52 davout: heh

09:53:03 davout: nvm

09:53:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 5000 @ 0.0029691 = 14.8455 BTC [+] {19}

10:29:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04878988 = 0.2439 BTC [+]

10:34:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4521 @ 0.00090347 = 4.0846 BTC [-]

10:41:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 195 @ 0.00297195 = 0.5795 BTC [+]

10:42:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.0221 = 0.1989 BTC [-]

10:45:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 19 @ 0.045 = 0.855 BTC [+]

11:24:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 400 @ 0.00297197 = 1.1888 BTC [+] {3}

11:45:15 jurov: *snide comment about mpex edge cases*

11:53:32 jurov: ;;ticker

11:53:32 gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 700.0, Best ask: 704.63625, Bid-ask spread: 4.63625, Last trade: 708.99999, 24 hour volume: 65249.82276421, 24 hour low: 500.0, 24 hour high: 704.63625, 24 hour vwap: 591.30602

11:53:37 jurov: woo

11:54:15 davout: BITCOIN, Y U NO CALM DOWN

11:55:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04878998 = 0.2439 BTC [+]

12:12:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00090121 = 13.9688 BTC [-]

12:23:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 20 @ 0.045 = 0.9 BTC [+]

12:41:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32379 @ 0.00090618 = 29.3412 BTC [+] {2}

12:51:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 45 @ 0.04878988 = 2.1955 BTC [-]

12:51:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.28499998 = 2.85 BTC [+] {4}

12:57:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 371 @ 0.0009071 = 0.3365 BTC [+]

13:06:19 taub: all these crypto rip-offs

13:06:37 taub: annoying

13:27:00 markedathome: I don't suppose anyone knows of how to extract private keys from the satoshidice desktop app that was around a year or so ago?

13:43:20 Duffer1: no idea mate, good luck

14:53:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00090501 = 20.1817 BTC [-]

15:12:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 41 @ 0.0221 = 0.9061 BTC [-]

15:13:35 kakobrekla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu are you moving from us to eu anytime soon? http://real-agenda.com/2013/12/12/romania-decriminalizes-political-corruption/#sthash.GwpTwTna.2BLcg5JT.dpbs

15:13:35 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:14:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 19 @ 0.04878997 = 0.927 BTC [+]

15:19:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10437 @ 0.00090096 = 9.4033 BTC [-]

15:20:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25937 @ 0.000898 = 23.2914 BTC [-] {2}

15:27:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.28999933 = 1.74 BTC [+] {3}

15:42:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 9 @ 0.06499997 = 0.585 BTC [+] {3}

15:49:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.0027989 = 0.112 BTC [-]

15:49:49 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu '2013-12-19 09:12:30: CAM Review Complete; Order In Production'

15:51:08 kakobrekla: i think you have an extra space prefixed there

15:54:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 25 @ 0.05216 = 1.304 BTC [-] {7}

15:55:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.051 = 0.255 BTC [-]

15:58:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 400 @ 0.00279899 = 1.1196 BTC [+] {2}

15:58:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.29 = 1.16 BTC [+]

16:10:12 ThickAsThieves: France decides 'textopornographie' is French for 'sexting'+

16:13:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00090443 = 6.8737 BTC [+]

16:14:37 ThickAsThieves: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/19/21964503-russias-putin-pussy-riot-duo-to-be-freed-despite-disgraceful-protest

16:14:37 ozbot: Russia's Putin: Pussy Riot duo to be freed despite 'disgraceful' protest - World News

16:16:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00089747 = 15.7506 BTC [-] {2}

16:30:13 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu '2013-12-19 09:12:30: CAM Review Complete; Order In Production'

16:30:14 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:30:25 asciilifeform: thx, kakobrekla

16:35:18 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i was in the us ?!

16:36:21 kakobrekla: no, romania is, it seems

16:36:35 mircea_popescu: but seriously, the decriminalize corruption thing is quite along the lines of my thinking.

16:36:38 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/de-ce-coruptia-nu-va-putea-fi-niciodata-eliminata/ << 2012

16:36:38 ozbot: De ce coruptia nu va putea fi niciodata eliminata pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

16:36:47 mircea_popescu: "why corruption is basically a good thing" etc.

16:37:43 kakobrekla: that article has too much unrecognizable words

16:38:01 kakobrekla: also stop burning my fraudsters credits

16:38:03 kakobrekla: im runing low.

16:38:32 mircea_popescu: besides, when the us says "you're taking a step back" you know you must be doing something right.

16:38:33 mircea_popescu: lolk

16:47:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.08599999 = 0.258 BTC [+] {3}

16:53:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.29179997 = 0.8754 BTC [+]

17:00:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.29179997 BTC [+]

17:00:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10000 @ 0.00012 = 1.2 BTC [+]

17:02:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7594 @ 0.00012 = 0.9113 BTC [+]

17:03:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2006 @ 0.00012 = 0.2407 BTC [+] {3}

17:04:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 11190 @ 0.00012 = 1.3428 BTC [+] {3}

17:04:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.00295998 = 0.1006 BTC [-]

17:05:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2073 @ 0.00012 = 0.2488 BTC [+] {3}

17:06:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00012 = 0.24 BTC [+] {2}

17:07:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 109 @ 0.00279899 = 0.3051 BTC [+]

17:09:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1737 @ 0.00012 = 0.2084 BTC [+] {3}

17:10:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.00012 = 0.36 BTC [+] {3}

17:12:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2003 @ 0.00012 = 0.2404 BTC [+] {3}

17:13:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.00012 = 0.36 BTC [+] {3}

17:13:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.29179997 BTC [+]

17:15:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02219999 = 0.2664 BTC [+] {3}

17:16:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2962 @ 0.00012 = 0.3554 BTC [+] {3}

17:17:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00012 = 0.12 BTC [+]

17:21:12 Duffer1: http://www.examiner.com/article/russian-bank-looks-to-create-new-digital-currency-to-compete-bitcoin-market

17:21:13 ozbot: Russian bank looks to create new digital currency to compete in Bitcoin market - National Finance Ex

17:22:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00012 = 0.12 BTC [+]

17:23:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7311 @ 0.00012 = 0.8773 BTC [+]

17:26:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10008 @ 0.00012 = 1.201 BTC [+] {2}

17:29:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 9990 @ 0.00012 = 1.1988 BTC [+] {2}

17:30:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 80000 @ 0.00012 = 9.6 BTC [+] {2}

17:31:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2500 @ 0.00012 = 0.3 BTC [+]

17:34:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7500 @ 0.00012 = 0.9 BTC [+]

17:34:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.29179997 = 0.5836 BTC [+]

17:37:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 90235 @ 0.00012 = 10.8282 BTC [+] {2}

17:40:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 99754 @ 0.00012 = 11.9705 BTC [+]

17:54:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 99330 @ 0.00012 = 11.9196 BTC [+]

18:02:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 99497 @ 0.00012 = 11.9396 BTC [+] {2}

18:04:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4855 @ 0.00012 = 0.5826 BTC [+]

18:06:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 95140 @ 0.00012 = 11.4168 BTC [+]

18:09:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 19912 @ 0.00012 = 2.3894 BTC [+] {2}

18:10:38 ThickAsThieves: so itll be like, what, 3PH of mining added this diff period?

18:10:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20000 @ 0.00012 = 2.4 BTC [+]

18:11:10 ThickAsThieves: dont they know China killed bitcoin?

18:11:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 60000 @ 0.00012 = 7.2 BTC [+]

18:14:12 jurov: china is actually mining and trying to scare competition :)

18:17:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1700 @ 0.00012 = 0.204 BTC [+]

18:20:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 8300 @ 0.00012 = 0.996 BTC [+]

18:26:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 94258 @ 0.00012 = 11.311 BTC [+]

18:35:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10356 @ 0.0009041 = 9.3629 BTC [+]

18:37:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012 = 0.6 BTC [+]

18:42:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10000 @ 0.00012 = 1.2 BTC [+]

18:48:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1880 @ 0.00012 = 0.2256 BTC [+]

19:04:46 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/cardano-xmas-blown-other-statements/

19:04:47 ozbot: Cardano : Xmas blown, other statements pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

19:06:35 jurov: "Well managed stakeholder expectations should keep blowback to a minimum in case of failure. Supposedly we have exceptional, unmatched strengths in PR, which we now have an opportunity to test, which is valuable."

19:06:38 KRS|Gotyawallet: holy smokes, this is big

19:06:39 KRS|Gotyawallet: http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/12/19/overstock-com-to-accept-bitcoins-ceo-says-money-is-too-important-to-leave-in-the-hands-of-government-officials/

19:06:40 jurov: srsly?

19:06:41 ozbot: Overstock.com to accept bitcoins; CEO says 'money is too important to leave in the hands of governme

19:06:53 KRS|Gotyawallet: +1000 for bitcoin

19:06:56 KRS|Gotyawallet: major retailer

19:07:10 jurov: no one gives a fuck about cardano = unmatched PR strength

19:07:16 mircea_popescu: jurov theory says.

19:07:20 mircea_popescu: lol

19:07:44 mircea_popescu: KRS|Gotyawallet pretty cool.

19:08:11 KRS|Gotyawallet: indeed had to bring the only the freshest news here to my friends in #bitcoin-assets

19:08:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 13 @ 0.05207384 = 0.677 BTC [-] {3}

19:09:03 mircea_popescu: i like the guy's attitude anyway.

19:09:26 mircea_popescu: i guess this dethrones roger ver as Bitcoin Jesus of the Used Computer Parts ?

19:09:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.05 = 0.25 BTC [-]

19:10:28 jurov: mircea you have used laz0rs to make cardanos? liquid cooled ones? y u no photos?

19:10:32 jurov: :D

19:10:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 11 @ 0.04632909 = 0.5096 BTC [-] {3}

19:11:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you satisfy the inquiring minds by snapping a coupla shots of the ded lazr ?

19:11:35 mircea_popescu: ( jurov it's for cutting the plastic casing, not rly anything supersexy)

19:11:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.0009041 = 5.1534 BTC [+]

19:12:16 jurov: you really do think nubbins` manboobs are sexier than that?

19:12:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.002799 = 0.3359 BTC [+]

19:12:52 jurov: sry nubs

19:15:38 jurov: but seriously, if asciilifeform does most of the prototype including casing himself, that calls for photo here and there

19:15:47 jurov: nerd porn

19:16:32 ThickAsThieves: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/12/19/join-our-live-qa-on-thursday-is-bitcoin-a-passing-fad-or-here-to-stay/?mod=e2tw

19:16:33 ozbot: Join Our Live Q&A on Thursday: Is Bitcoin a Passing Fad, or Here to Stay? - MoneyBeat - WSJ

19:16:38 Bugpowder: overstock!?!

19:16:39 Bugpowder: wowo

19:16:58 Bugpowder: 3Q2014 :(

19:17:13 ThickAsThieves: right after the next bubble burst

19:17:13 Duffer1: thas ok

19:17:21 Duffer1: more will come

19:17:45 ThickAsThieves: that link is live now btw

19:17:56 mircea_popescu: you got a point

19:19:11 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves who's "our" ?

19:19:25 ThickAsThieves: atm:

19:19:35 ThickAsThieves: Patrick Murck (BTC foundation lawyer),

19:19:44 ThickAsThieves: Jason Zweig,

19:19:50 ThickAsThieves: Paul Vigna,

19:19:55 ThickAsThieves: Michael Casey

19:20:31 ThickAsThieves: current topic is super noring security aspects

19:20:35 ThickAsThieves: boring*

19:21:16 mircea_popescu: "i think it's here to say but please don't misconstrue anything i say into grounds to sue me. also don't ask me about various milky topics re the bf"

19:21:23 Duffer1: how long is this discussion?

19:22:00 asciilifeform: photo.

19:22:11 asciilifeform: dead component in question is the motor driver board

19:22:21 asciilifeform: anyone actually wants to see this?

19:22:50 mircea_popescu: yes.

19:23:40 ThickAsThieves: "What does everyone else think about the idea of Gox allowing rapid transactions to mexico and brazil and other "cocaine rich" countries. Is this not going to create a hyper bubble? "

19:24:20 kakobrekla: wait is this -otc?

19:25:03 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla it's -otc identical flavouring.

19:26:01 jurov: at least i made 0.09 BTC off bitbet :D, thx mircea

19:26:02 ThickAsThieves: this is a chore to watch, nvm

19:26:09 Duffer1: lol ya

19:26:19 Duffer1: wat r blockchain

19:26:35 kakobrekla: stop printing money gavin!

19:26:43 Duffer1: gavin andreson, chief bitcoin scientist

19:27:00 kakobrekla: gavin bernankenson

19:27:33 ThickAsThieves: he blinded me with science!

19:28:07 mircea_popescu: lol chief bitcoin scientist, that's a good one

19:29:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 34700 @ 0.00012 = 4.164 BTC [+]

19:29:32 asciilifeform: ok photos:

19:29:36 asciilifeform: warning: quite boring

19:30:03 asciilifeform: laser cutter. quite ordinary. currently, unfortunately, has become a 'drill'.

19:30:06 asciilifeform: https://unsee.cc/zedumo/

19:30:08 ozbot: Unsee — Secure and private temporary image hosting

19:30:35 asciilifeform: (why unsee? because betcha there's a plasma panel at nsa that shows these in real time...)

19:30:48 asciilifeform: next, the reason the latter machine has become a drill:

19:30:55 asciilifeform: controller removed. https://unsee.cc/wadizu/

19:30:57 asciilifeform: why removed?

19:30:59 pankkake: oh, unsee.cc is the kind of service I was looking for

19:31:06 asciilifeform: because: https://unsee.cc/woduge/

19:31:10 asciilifeform: magic smoke released.

19:31:38 asciilifeform: the end (for now.) until the new a3983 comes in from hong kong and i can lift the turd off the board and put new one in.

19:31:40 asciilifeform: the end.

19:34:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 750 @ 0.00296204 = 2.2215 BTC [+] {4}

19:37:06 asciilifeform: once again, machine in question is essentially an expensive saw. though a very precise saw.

19:37:41 asciilifeform: it only cuts plastics (and various other materials with relatively poor heat conductivity, such as glass.)

19:38:11 mircea_popescu: looks more like a glorified sewing machien, but hey.

19:38:40 mircea_popescu: what do i know of geek pr0ns :D

19:39:40 ThickAsThieves: lol why is btc-e trollbox saying I need another $99.99 to chat?

19:39:50 asciilifeform: squat little box on the bottom left is a chiller.

19:40:23 asciilifeform: nothing terribly exciting, esp. since the thing is a paperweight pending a new stepper IC

19:40:23 jborkl: you already used up your 1000 chat credits?

19:40:34 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves cause you got 99 problems ?

19:41:28 jborkl: new fee introduced to remove troll spam from the trollbox- $99.99 for 1000 chat credits

19:43:12 mircea_popescu: x.idiffs are back

19:43:24 mircea_popescu: pls don't be shy to report any issues.

19:43:47 mircea_popescu: jborkl does that mean a dime per chat line ?!

19:44:21 jborkl: I am just trolling

19:44:51 mircea_popescu: o

19:45:10 pankkake: too bad, that would be genius

19:45:58 ThickAsThieves: my guess is $100 balance is required

19:46:13 ThickAsThieves: to weed out troll accounts

19:47:12 mircea_popescu: wow, the 30btc thing is catching on!

19:47:20 Duffer1: ya TaT

19:47:33 Duffer1: min balance required for chat to function

19:47:47 ThickAsThieves: btc-e is growing up i guess

19:47:57 ThickAsThieves: next thing yknow therell be no chat box at all

19:48:07 Duffer1: chat is just as useless, just less spammy

19:48:56 ThickAsThieves: too much human mod needed

19:49:02 ThickAsThieves: humans are too costly

19:49:15 Bugpowder: You need to hold at least $100 worth of currency to chat

19:49:30 Bugpowder: or bitcoin

19:50:03 mircea_popescu: <Duffer1> chat is just as useless, just less spammy << lol

19:50:12 ThickAsThieves: Bug i have more than that

19:50:18 ThickAsThieves: i think it has to be fiat

19:50:23 ThickAsThieves: denominated

19:51:07 mircea_popescu: btc-e doing their part to help the usd have real world value ?

19:51:18 Duffer1: hehe

19:51:30 ThickAsThieves: or maybe it doesnt count coins tied to orders?

19:52:37 jurov: mircea_popescu: the new lot is nowhere mentioned and the examples are presumably wrong: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.IDIFF.MAR

19:53:16 jurov: but since you have unmatched PR strength, you can gloss over such details, i guess :D

19:53:34 the20year2: credits to talk? wow

19:53:41 the20year2: I hope they don't start charging for IRC

19:53:55 mircea_popescu: jurov i can do aaanything.

19:54:07 Duffer1: borkl was trollin

19:54:39 mircea_popescu: the20year2 everything worthwhile will cost money eventually.

19:56:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 48 @ 0.00283666 = 0.1362 BTC [+] {3}

19:57:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 96 @ 0.00297 = 0.2851 BTC [+]

19:57:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 35 @ 0.045 = 1.575 BTC [+]

19:58:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 23 @ 0.05286954 = 1.216 BTC [+] {4}

19:59:33 mircea_popescu: jurov better ?

20:00:54 jurov: yes, much better

20:01:53 jurov: oh and MKOPT/SPLIT in the FAQ still suffers from this, too

20:02:15 mircea_popescu: yeah but updating the faq is a pain cause i had to go and get it translated ;/

20:02:16 mircea_popescu: adding to the list tho

20:02:59 jurov: kk

20:04:00 mircea_popescu: the20year2 so re your listing idea, do you have your reports posted anywhere ? what's the cashflow like ? etc.

20:05:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1376 @ 0.0028 = 3.8528 BTC [-]

20:07:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 99 @ 0.02287574 = 2.2647 BTC [+] {3}

20:07:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00279899 = 0.2799 BTC [-]

20:08:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00090428 = 25.9528 BTC [+] {2}

20:08:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0487896 = 0.4879 BTC [-]

20:09:04 the20year2: mircea , i send out cashflow reports to all our investors now , i don't make them public. I can send over our current business plan + cashflow report if you'd want

20:09:38 mircea_popescu: well, i dunno how serious you are about trying to list.

20:09:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1178 @ 0.00297086 = 3.4997 BTC [+] {2}

20:09:54 the20year2: We're finally cashflowing from rental income, but the bigger money is from our equity gain, our total USD investment was $92,668.54 and our current asset & capital value is $192,035.16

20:10:04 the20year2: And that's since the last part of July

20:10:16 mircea_popescu: uh

20:10:20 mircea_popescu: how many units is 192k ?!

20:10:32 Duffer1: rental starter?

20:10:36 the20year2: units? As in properties?

20:10:50 the20year2: Duffer1: yes

20:10:50 mike_c: re: translations. I have had good success with programmatically getting good human translations from http://gengo.com/.

20:10:57 Duffer1: cool

20:11:13 mircea_popescu: the20year2 yes as in properties

20:11:22 the20year2: Yes, just two houses

20:11:26 mircea_popescu: except units, ie, independently leased parts of a property.

20:11:43 the20year2: In my area, the median home value is around $100k, and most of what we're looking at are going in the ~$30,000 range

20:11:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00339966 = 0.34 BTC [+] {5}

20:11:59 mircea_popescu: so how do you gain confidence in your equity evaluation ?

20:12:20 ThickAsThieves: probly holds bitcoins

20:12:26 the20year2: I've had 3rd parties assess the liquidation value as well as my own value estimates since I've been in the business of evaluating properties for every large financial firm in the US

20:12:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7406 @ 0.00012 = 0.8887 BTC [+]

20:12:57 mircea_popescu: and what makes you confident you can efficiently deploy capital ? in what limits ?

20:13:09 Duffer1: are you counting btc appreciation on top of your units for your total equity #?

20:13:20 the20year2: No Duffer1

20:13:33 the20year2: That's covered in the business plan mircea_popescu. We feel that we can deploy around $100k of capital per month

20:13:43 the20year2: (Into new properties/purchases that is)

20:13:47 Duffer1: ^.^

20:14:15 mircea_popescu: well alright, so send the thing over.

20:14:23 the20year2: the BTC appreciation is another ball game and hard for me to personally value. When everything was running on bitfunder decently, our values kept doing well, even as BTC/USD started to gain

20:14:24 mikaeldice: Spending it seems to be the easy part :)

20:14:31 the20year2: Not exactly

20:15:04 the20year2: in this case, you have to have teams of workers to do the rehab work , qualify tenants. Sure, you can spend more money to 'just get it done', but if you do that you pay retail for everything, and you can't make money by paying what everyone else does

20:15:21 mircea_popescu: started is one thing. btc went up what, 50x this year.

20:15:56 Duffer1: sorry i haven't followed rental starter at all, are you registered DPO or did you ipo?

20:16:07 the20year2: dpo?

20:16:13 Duffer1: direct private offer

20:16:23 the20year2: We IPO'd on bitfunder, but are now private/direct due to them shutting down

20:16:42 Duffer1: but not legally registered though right?

20:16:54 mike_c: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215230.0

20:16:56 ozbot: [Direct] RentalStarter - A Midwest Real Estate Investment Company

20:17:02 the20year2: Yes, we're registered in Hong Kong and the United states. The hong kong company is connected to the US one through a legal service agreement

20:17:18 the20year2: DBA Full Power Asia Investments LTD in Hong Kong

20:17:24 Duffer1: thanks, i should probably stop being lazy and just read hehe

20:20:37 Duffer1: registered as a company is different from being registered with the SEC (making it legal for you to distribute shares)

20:23:43 Duffer1: the20year2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_public_offering

20:24:27 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust the20year2

20:24:28 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user the20year2: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=the20year2 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=the20year2 | Rated since: never

20:24:41 Duffer1: under 1m offering should qualify you for 504 exemption, but you still will need to register with your state, and adhere to their blue sky laws

20:25:10 Duffer1: if you're interested in being squeky clean that is hehe :P

20:25:58 the20year2: Our lawyer has made me aware of the requirements, the issue here is that I don't know of any US investors that we have, SEC allows me to file a PPM if/when I'm notified of US investors ,and since startup we've barred US investment

20:27:07 the20year2: We've very seriously looked at doing a DPO but I can't round up enough investment to justify it

20:27:24 Duffer1: ah, i was under the impression that even if you were operating in the US you'd have to register

20:27:39 the20year2: The company that collects funding is not in the US

20:27:50 Duffer1: i see

20:28:34 the20year2: The funds are sent to a LTD operated in the Hong Kong, of which I am not the director, there is a two way service agremeent between the two entities, according to what my personal understanding is, it can work that way. if we take on US investors, it needs to be done so at the US LLC level, and we then need to register

20:29:18 the20year2: We'll qualify for most US crowdfunding and DPO laws next year as we're bringing a accounting firm into the mix in Janurary when we have our first book audit

20:30:26 Duffer1: do you take a salary?

20:31:17 the20year2: I am the majority shareholder in the company, there is also a 15% management fee that comes into place. In order to comply with US tax laws, I take my dividends + management fee as salary

20:32:36 Duffer1: cool, looks like a solid project, good luck :)

20:33:10 the20year2: So far, so good. I Just thought early on that banks would be more open to adding us to portfolo lending

20:33:22 the20year2: If that was the case there'd be no problem and i wouldn't give a care about listing anywhere

20:33:22 Duffer1: hehehe

20:34:06 Duffer1: they'd be funding their competition in multiple ways if they backed you

20:34:26 Duffer1: they want dat real estate, they don't want bitcoin to live

20:39:08 the20year2: none of the banks i talk to know about bitcoin

20:39:28 the20year2: And there's no reason for me to tell them that investors are being paid in bitcoin. ALl they know is that there's a out-of-country service agreement

20:41:06 Duffer1: ouch

20:52:34 pankkake: http://pastebin.com/96m9Q4UV altcoin scene is sad

20:52:34 ozbot: Hi Bro, I am here from couple of years and have good knowledge on how to prom - Pastebin.com

20:54:06 mircea_popescu: how to prom ?

20:54:27 mircea_popescu: lmao jesus

20:57:16 KRS|Gotyawallet: i can mine an alt coin and have twice as many bitcoins in the same amount of time as mining bitcoin, selling them at an exchange

20:59:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] [PAID] 17.03088030 BTC to 13`993 shares, 121710 satoshi per share

21:00:07 mircea_popescu: sounds about right.

21:00:38 Duffer1: mircea mining doge :P

21:02:21 KRS|Gotyawallet: lmao

21:02:34 KRS|Gotyawallet: such fun

21:02:48 kakobrekla: theres 3 crypto coin threads on some local tech forum

21:02:53 Duffer1: apparently the lulz market space is profitable >.<

21:02:57 kakobrekla: bitcoin, litecoin and yes, dogecoin

21:03:20 KRS|Gotyawallet: i should prolly buy some doge everyones talking abou tit

21:03:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] [PAID] 3.85235844 BTC to 333`249 shares, 1156 satoshi per share

21:03:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00090181 = 11.5432 BTC [-]

21:03:56 Duffer1: there's a reddit thread about some guy buying coffee with doge

21:04:01 Duffer1: free coffee ftw

21:05:27 benkay: so tapering is a go for the states

21:08:42 mircea_popescu: benkay i saw that. incredible huh

21:08:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 8700 @ 0.00012 = 1.044 BTC [+]

21:09:44 ThickAsThieves: mp when did you last do withdrawals?

21:10:34 KRS|Gotyawallet: wtf someone bought ~12 BTC worth DOGE Coin: BTC 11.95468560 7969790.39827178

21:10:34 assbot: 123!

21:10:52 Duffer1: amazing company!

21:10:52 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

21:10:57 KRS|Gotyawallet: such profits

21:11:07 Duffer1: *highfive assbot

21:11:11 ThickAsThieves: much amazing

21:11:11 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

21:11:29 ThickAsThieves: i dont even know this meme

21:11:38 ThickAsThieves: havent bothered looking into it

21:11:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.00279899 = 0.2379 BTC [-]

21:11:59 the20year2: i wonder if the buyer is a guy i know :D

21:12:13 Duffer1: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doge

21:12:14 ozbot: Doge | Know Your Meme

21:12:35 ThickAsThieves: will not click

21:12:56 Duffer1: :P

21:13:03 pankkake: http://coinmarketcap.com/ $10M now, #8

21:13:03 ozbot: Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations | Bitcoin Litecoin Peercoin Namecoin Quark ProtoShares WorldC

21:13:57 ThickAsThieves: maybe 1 person can pull a mil out

21:18:05 benkay: doge > litecoin by the end of q1 2014

21:18:09 benkay: mktcap

21:18:22 benkay: ;)

21:19:30 pankkake: http://bitbet.us/bet/621/any-altcoin-will-surpass-litecoin-in-market-capitalization/?ref=1Eck6cgGzEb9N42CFhcsCBQhZQStoJbHRK decent odds

21:19:31 ozbot: BitBet - Any altcoin will surpass Litecoin in market capitalization

21:20:36 Duffer1: interesting

21:21:53 kakobreklaaa: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t9buu/sky_broadband_has_now_decided_bitcoin_related/

21:22:42 Duffer1: vpn, the only way to travel

21:23:25 pankkake: wow, UK. what haven't they censored yet?

21:24:02 Duffer1: i wonder what service Ciphermine is using...

21:24:54 ThickAsThieves: it's just some kids mom

21:25:00 ThickAsThieves: blocking websites

21:25:31 pankkake: they have an "optionnal" filter that is enabled by default, right?

21:25:39 pankkake: until it's not optionnal anymore

21:25:43 ThickAsThieves: dunno

21:28:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.05010001 = 0.2505 BTC [+]

21:28:38 mircea_popescu: jesus

21:29:40 the20year2: ?

21:30:07 mircea_popescu: tho in fairness, it's more likely redditard overreacting and entry level dub speaking out of the three ring binder

21:30:19 mircea_popescu: than actually anything as meaningfully nefarious as the post implies.

21:30:36 Duffer1: probably.. but still, it is Sky

21:30:44 KRS|Gotyawallet: yo yo yo i want to short doge coin on bfx yo

21:31:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 30 @ 0.05010001 = 1.503 BTC [+]

21:31:09 pankkake: I want to short everything

21:31:13 pankkake: safest way to get rich

21:31:28 the20year2: lol

21:33:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.0228 = 0.228 BTC [-]

21:34:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 12500 @ 0.00012 = 1.5 BTC [+]

21:37:02 ThickAsThieves: shortest way to go short is kill yourself

21:37:05 ThickAsThieves: such profit

21:38:19 mircea_popescu: kill yourself = going 7 feet long underground

21:38:20 mircea_popescu: no good

21:39:32 pankkake: isn't it 6?

21:39:50 mircea_popescu: maybe your ground isn't as deep in france ?

21:41:21 pankkake: well, "six feet under" is widely used

21:42:47 mircea_popescu: :p

21:44:02 ThickAsThieves: maybe coffin starts at 6ft, person lies at 7ft

21:44:05 ThickAsThieves: you both win

21:44:32 ThickAsThieves: but how can we arb the difference?

21:46:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3750 @ 0.00012 = 0.45 BTC [+]

21:46:24 mircea_popescu: lol

21:48:19 ThickAsThieves: makes me recall your text on unused vagina mileage

21:48:55 jcpham: one-owner or multi-owner

21:49:11 jcpham: check the carfax

21:49:14 mircea_popescu: lol

21:49:20 Duffer1: that sounds like something i need to read

21:49:26 ThickAsThieves: vagfax.cum

21:50:26 ThickAsThieves: I'm surprised there arent more sexperience database websites

21:56:31 ThickAsThieves: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/19/5183356/how-to-steal-bitcoin-in-three-easy-steps

21:56:32 ozbot: How to steal Bitcoin in three easy steps | The Verge

21:57:39 mircea_popescu: so is the verge going to be paying its staff on bitcoin,

21:57:50 mircea_popescu: or did they just accidentally prove they publish crap ?

21:58:39 ThickAsThieves: they do some stuff really well

21:58:48 ThickAsThieves: but yknow how these things go

21:59:01 ThickAsThieves: after a year or two its all ads and bullshit

21:59:13 ThickAsThieves: http://blog.bittorrent.com/2013/12/19/update-on-bittorrent-chat/

22:06:18 mircea_popescu: pankkake http://fraudsters.com/2013/a-deal-can-be-anything/ << thanks for teh link

22:10:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 33 @ 0.29513114 = 9.7393 BTC [+] {13}

22:28:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 7 @ 0.0502 = 0.3514 BTC [+]

22:29:06 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/85/nasa-finds-et/

22:29:09 ozbot: BitBet - NASA finds ET

22:29:18 mircea_popescu: check out the bottom feeders in teh comments lol

22:52:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58162 @ 0.00090436 = 52.5994 BTC [+] {4}

23:08:18 benkay: !t m s.nsa

23:08:18 assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00012 / 0.00013374 / 0.00016 (2037 shares, 0.27 BTC), 30D: 0.0001011 / 0.00010754 / 0.00016 (487679 shares, 52.45 BTC)

23:10:37 mike_c: excellent pr skillz prevented a freefall :)

23:10:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 50000 @ 0.001 = 50 BTC

23:11:21 benkay: the audience is tractable.

23:18:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.297 BTC [+]

23:19:24 mircea_popescu: olo

23:25:17 benkay: yolo!

23:31:39 Vexual: mircea, i was interested to see you wrote on the film the family

23:32:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 42 @ 0.29799897 = 12.516 BTC [+] {2}

23:34:12 Vexual: did you see something beautiful on the banal underpainting? or are you joking about evryones hardon for deniros?

23:38:52 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-family/

23:38:52 ozbot: The Family pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

23:52:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 3 @ 0.05916666 = 0.1775 BTC [+] {3}

23:57:02 Vexual: if you have the tools handy, try removing every frame with a face, it's a nice short film

23:59:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 150 @ 0.002836 = 0.4254 BTC [+]