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Transcript for 20-02-2014, 3038 lines:

00:00:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.51251667 = 3.0751 BTC [-] {4}

00:01:14 pankkake: "Scammers used to be gentleman and just disappear from existence" oh really?

00:01:35 ThickAsThieves: and then make new existence

00:01:41 ThickAsThieves: over and over

00:01:48 ThickAsThieves: sometimes more than one at a time

00:02:02 ThickAsThieves: cryptostocks is cranking them out lately

00:02:10 pankkake: scammers are cocky and get mad when you expose them

00:02:12 ThickAsThieves: S.EXISTENCE

00:02:19 pankkake: S.EX

00:02:35 pankkake: S.EXIST

00:02:52 ThickAsThieves: S.EXCORCIST

00:03:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.51200001 = 4.608 BTC [-]

00:03:14 asciilifeform: 'SEX EXISTS' (graffiti on an abandoned warehouse in wash. d.c. area.)

00:03:17 ThickAsThieves: AM1 crashing on the news!

00:03:19 ThickAsThieves: hehe

00:04:05 pankkake: well the thing is… if Havelock falls, the operator is havelock

00:05:44 ThickAsThieves: flipside, one less counterparty to worry about

00:06:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.512 = 2.56 BTC [-]

00:06:09 ThickAsThieves: nah, even i dont buy that

00:06:50 ThickAsThieves: the risk of Havelock affects all on Havelock always

00:07:02 ThickAsThieves: can't remove that really

00:07:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.512 = 10.24 BTC [-]

00:08:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.51115 = 5.1115 BTC [-] {4}

00:09:52 Namworld: Don't issuers have list of holders?

00:12:32 ThickAsThieves: on Havelock, yes

00:12:51 ThickAsThieves: i can access it live anytime and get autobackups twice each day

00:13:12 Namworld: Sounds good.

00:13:24 ThickAsThieves: not sure what youre getting at though

00:15:06 pankkake: it means havelock was kinda irrelevant as a counterparty

00:15:13 pankkake: we trusted you!

00:15:46 ThickAsThieves: Havelock is far from irrelavant though

00:16:33 ThickAsThieves: even a shareholder list cant prevent many things

00:17:17 ThickAsThieves: but no i agree that it's better to have the middleman

00:18:07 ThickAsThieves: assuming there's trust to be gained

00:18:40 ThickAsThieves: now, i believe Havelock and Panama Fund might be separate things

00:19:03 ThickAsThieves: Havelock, the investment bank

00:19:11 ThickAsThieves: or whichever category they claim

00:21:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.511 = 1.022 BTC [-]

00:22:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 137 @ 0.00299998 = 0.411 BTC [+] {3}

00:29:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.00492307 = 0.2117 BTC [-] {5}

00:30:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.50701 = 6.0841 BTC [-] {2}

00:35:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00491707 = 0.9834 BTC [-] {5}

00:36:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.50560167 = 3.0336 BTC [-] {4}

00:39:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.0680575 = 0.2722 BTC [-] {4}

00:40:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 33 @ 0.05672483 = 1.8719 BTC [-] {9}

00:43:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50510002 = 1.0102 BTC [-]

00:44:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.50510001 = 5.051 BTC [-] {2}

00:50:30 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: on another note: "Pussy Riot members attacked with whips by Cossack militia in Sochi" << bwahaha

00:50:57 mircea_popescu: mod6 yup :D

00:52:08 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this "theme of the century" bs is greatly loved by libertards, because it pretty much works like global warming.

00:52:37 mircea_popescu: there's very little data, and the data that is unwarrantly overrepresents what they like (ie, their own eco chambers) and fails to represent or misrepresents what actually happened.

00:53:59 mircea_popescu: o look, the "i didn't know i was on private" bs made it to here.

00:54:30 mircea_popescu: about five years ago an affiliate manager came up with the brilliant idea of doing two email blasts instead of one, because the first "had some mistakes" that "were corrected"

00:54:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00482502 = 0.1206 BTC [-]

00:55:12 mircea_popescu: it became fashionable because affiliate marketing is a very fashion driven <del>industry</del>, occupation, and so for about a year no email blast could ever be sent by anyone that was "correct".

00:56:40 ThickAsThieves: i never met an affiliate marketer i liked

00:57:07 ThickAsThieves: both web and irl types

00:57:28 ThickAsThieves: cue mp "That's how I got rich!"

00:57:54 mircea_popescu: nah not rly.

00:58:00 mircea_popescu: i did meet some i liked,

00:58:06 mircea_popescu: but what do you know, they were all women.

00:58:29 mircea_popescu: generally the affiliate marketing guy is a combo of sleazy car salesman and otaku fatso.

00:59:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] [PAID] 11.00391760 BTC to 18`616 shares, 59110 satoshi per share

01:00:10 mircea_popescu: cads: I think they want to see what a $1000 3d printer can do << by paying 700 for an itam ? wouldn't it be easier to just add 300 and check the printer at home ?

01:00:41 ThickAsThieves: surely not easier

01:01:18 ThickAsThieves: it's the easy that theyre paying for

01:01:25 mircea_popescu: i never paid 700k for a consome just to see waht a 1mn restaurant can do, i'll tell you that :D

01:01:38 ThickAsThieves: lol

01:01:46 ThickAsThieves: very fair comparison

01:01:49 mircea_popescu: totally.

01:01:50 ThickAsThieves: i stand erected

01:01:54 mircea_popescu: haha

01:02:10 cads: I mean, these guys currently... fly a guy overseas to look at a part.

01:02:25 mircea_popescu: cads i get it, i get it, burning through all that vc money is a fucking tough job.

01:02:52 mircea_popescu: hey cads, you had a blog did you ?

01:04:09 cads: nope, I was playing with one for some of my math stuff but I never published anything worth reading

01:04:18 cads: I keep wanting to get back to blogging

01:05:01 mircea_popescu: so then, here's your big thing : make a post introducing social justice as if it were set theory.

01:05:11 ThickAsThieves: WhatsApp had one investor, at $8m in 2011

01:05:26 cads: hehe, I do love moral calculus.

01:05:30 ThickAsThieves: coke and whores for the whole team!

01:05:32 mircea_popescu: i'll argue the shit out of you, if nothing else then so anon retards have a model of how it works.

01:05:48 mircea_popescu: and maybe, who knows, understand actual generosity,

01:05:55 mircea_popescu: as opposed to their contemptible slimy thing.

01:06:33 mircea_popescu: the20year2: In a life or death situation i'm sure they don't care too much << did this guy just argue with a bunch of people about using the rifle as a club ?

01:06:41 ThickAsThieves: uh oh ""In terms of value creation, this is the biggest on record," re: WhatsApp

01:06:50 ThickAsThieves: what about teh buttcoinz?

01:06:56 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves see ? all the forum signs of greatness.

01:07:15 mircea_popescu: it's too easy for us. we are incredibly fucking powerful, just for having been here and seen it first hand.

01:07:43 benkay: ;;market

01:07:44 gribble: Error: "market" is not a valid command.

01:07:45 benkay: ;;ticker

01:07:47 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 627.85, Best ask: 628.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.62000, Last trade: 627.85, 24 hour volume: 10920.95006922, 24 hour low: 617.0, 24 hour high: 636.0, 24 hour vwap: 626.88346818

01:07:47 ThickAsThieves: how on gods bloody earth is a chat app worth $19b

01:08:10 ThickAsThieves: especially one i never heard of

01:08:15 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves in exactly the same way it's a good idea for businesses to ask for "affordable housing" instead of tax rebates.

01:08:28 mircea_popescu: you have to have a special worm in your head, like tequilla.

01:09:23 ThickAsThieves: that's 19 Instagrams

01:09:30 ThickAsThieves: well maybe not anymore

01:09:34 moiety: mew all, how goes?

01:09:40 ThickAsThieves: probly lik 87 Instagrams now

01:09:45 mircea_popescu: pew moiety. just fine.

01:09:52 cads: ThickAsThieves: so.. whatapp?

01:09:57 mircea_popescu: which one is instagram ?

01:10:06 mircea_popescu: tumblr is different right ?

01:10:06 ThickAsThieves: the photo filters

01:10:09 moiety: look at my feet through a weird filter = instagram

01:10:15 mircea_popescu: aok

01:10:16 Apocalyptic: ^

01:10:25 mircea_popescu: definitelly worth 19 billion DOLLARS.

01:10:30 cads: mircea_popescu: instragram is photography for hipsters and hiphop kids

01:10:35 mircea_popescu: not likely worth five bitcoin, but 19 bn dollars...well...

01:10:43 ThickAsThieves: they basically put photobooths in an app and called it a day

01:10:44 moiety: tumblr = heres pics of everything in a back-to-front blog setup

01:10:57 cads: tumblr is miniblogging

01:11:06 mircea_popescu: i think that's where ozbot gets all those bad pictures of naked teenagers.

01:11:13 moiety: lol!

01:11:19 ThickAsThieves: .bait

01:11:21 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m21aqoo0k41r3drngo1_500.jpg

01:11:23 mircea_popescu: cads so do we got a deal or are you too loath to commit ?

01:11:24 ThickAsThieves: :)

01:11:40 mircea_popescu: lmao the prostitution rests.

01:11:59 ThickAsThieves: perfect compliment to my erected joke! if only we planned

01:12:14 mircea_popescu: pankkake you shall have a more detailed answer in a second.

01:12:22 mircea_popescu: o nm you already had it

01:12:49 cads: mircea_popescu: I'm not sure where I'd start to be honest

01:12:54 moiety: lolol talking of prostitution

01:12:55 mircea_popescu: you too ?

01:13:07 mircea_popescu: dude what's with you people, seriously. you believe in this, right ?

01:13:14 mircea_popescu: it's no shame, people believe all sorts of weird shit.

01:13:23 cads: I do want to do a mathematical treatise of some austrian school economics

01:13:24 mircea_popescu: but how can you go through your day not understanding what you believe in ?

01:13:38 mircea_popescu: i mean even the flat earth folks can EXPLAIN it to you if you ask.

01:14:17 ThickAsThieves: the earth is flat, it just appears spherical

01:14:24 moiety: lol this girl tries upmarket selling herself on a forum basically. you should see who replied http://www.hellou.com/2014/02/apparently-young-woman-posted-following-forum-title-marry-rich-guy-2049/

01:14:27 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves do you know who was the biggest believer ?

01:14:35 ThickAsThieves: napolean?

01:14:41 ThickAsThieves: i dunno

01:14:43 mircea_popescu: o no. almost contemporary.

01:14:53 mircea_popescu: the kruger guy for whom the krugerrand is named.

01:14:58 mircea_popescu: staunch.

01:15:20 wao-ender: very loyal and commited

01:15:21 wao-ender: instersting

01:15:31 benkay: o/ moiety

01:15:33 mircea_popescu: i tend to ask people with gold coin collections (which obviously WILL include some) "but you don't think the earth is flat, too, do youi ?"

01:15:40 mircea_popescu: absolutely nobody to date knew the reference.

01:16:17 wao-ender: oh here is reference http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/staunch

01:16:37 moiety: \o aye up benkay :) how's you?

01:16:58 mircea_popescu: wao-ender no i mean about paul kruger

01:17:38 cads: mircea_popescu: I dunno, maybe I could do a situation with agents that act under various ignorance or misinformation constraints.

01:18:00 cads: I'm trying to think of the simplest measure of the fairness of a situation.

01:18:08 mircea_popescu: cads don't be bullied into it, but just consider that a) you really can't go through life like this and b) you definitely can't write the austrian thing for this reason.

01:18:39 mircea_popescu: sooner or later it'll have to be well resolved.

01:18:40 wao-ender: oh, we believes in that war with England, right?

01:18:44 ThickAsThieves: i think i just found a havelock bug, i sent a deposit to two different security accounts using 1 tx, it only deposited one amount

01:18:48 wao-ender: that his army can resist?

01:19:06 mircea_popescu: wao-ender they did it just fine for a while. but yes the boors.

01:19:11 ThickAsThieves: no way to exploit such thing, but annoying...

01:19:43 wao-ender: interesting life story

01:19:46 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves reverse-malleability.

01:20:30 wao-ender: well, but kinda it's true

01:20:33 mircea_popescu: moiety oyu know that "please allow me to analyse your situation" post is about as old as the internet ?

01:20:37 wao-ender: all we have, is the Hope.

01:20:42 wao-ender: Hope for next day.

01:21:06 mircea_popescu: i distinctly remember readinf the exchange in the mid 90s, thinking "look how retarded the mericans actually are, they believe this crap is respondent"

01:21:25 moiety: of course not! I've been banished from proper internetting for years! I loved his response though, fresh to me.

01:21:55 moiety: aw i think i find something good and it just turns out ive beenunder my rock for a while again lol

01:21:56 mircea_popescu: if i recall the original actually had good new england grammar

01:22:18 cads: hmm, so the service boasts half a billion users

01:22:37 mircea_popescu: cads AND VIEWS! pls do not forget the views.

01:23:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.50277 = 10.0554 BTC [-] {7}

01:23:34 cads: yes, the views, the views, gotta count the views...

01:23:38 cads: .... views....

01:23:46 *: cads twitches

01:23:56 mircea_popescu: lol

01:23:59 moiety: i also learned today that ABBA admitted they wore the outfits they did for tax deductions

01:24:16 mircea_popescu: ... abba ?!

01:24:20 moiety: yeah lol

01:24:21 mircea_popescu: just how young are you darlin' ?

01:25:00 moiety: 29 years, a lot younger worldly. fair?

01:25:31 mircea_popescu: hehe i'm just pestering you.

01:25:53 mircea_popescu: you see, bois are fully allowed to love mac clintock, but god forbid a woman mentions abba like she heard of it.

01:25:57 mircea_popescu: gotta keep the double standards.

01:26:28 moiety: ah i forget those, go wandering into all kinds of sentences unwittingly

01:27:29 mircea_popescu: diametric the other interepretation is, that as long as you price your goods in dollars you're fine, and as long as you accept someone';s offer of doobaloos for your items you're also fine,

01:27:43 mircea_popescu: but you're not allowed to open a shop on 5th avenue which lists all prices in bitcoin and doesn't take usd,

01:27:56 mircea_popescu: nor are you allowed to pull the "this is just as good as usd" liberty dollar scam.

01:29:11 mircea_popescu: the way to skirt this, for fun and profit, is obviously to open the 5th avenue shop with prices prominently displayed in bitcoin and a tiny print usd value underneath, like "We also take this shit if you absolutely must"

01:29:27 mircea_popescu: which will likely get you sued and congress pass a law saying dollars have to be just as big as anything else on the tag!!1

01:29:29 cads: Hey guys, are you familiar with the multi-armed bandit problem?

01:29:35 moiety: lolol

01:29:43 mircea_popescu: cads yes

01:30:11 moiety: i thought most bandits had multiple arms

01:30:20 ThickAsThieves: Dancing Queen was the first cover song in my first punk band

01:30:33 moiety: please say its online somewhere ThickAsThieves !

01:30:40 ThickAsThieves: nope

01:30:41 ThickAsThieves: sorry

01:30:42 moiety: aww

01:31:02 mircea_popescu: moiety it's a formulation of the explore/exploit dilemma

01:31:14 cads: moiety: A one armed bandit is a slot machine, while the multi-armed bandit problem considers the best play in a situation with multiple slot machines with uncertain odds.

01:31:19 mircea_popescu: like suppose you're naked outdoors circa 4500 bc, and very hungry.

01:31:24 mircea_popescu: you find a bush with berries.

01:31:34 mircea_popescu: how long do you spend grazing and when do you leave looking for more bushes ?

01:31:50 moiety: when you have collected them all from the first

01:32:02 mircea_popescu: yes well, it gets more complicated than that.

01:32:10 moiety: ik sorry i couldnt resist

01:32:20 mircea_popescu: god forbid someone marries you.

01:32:31 moiety: i think we can all safely assume thats not going to happen

01:32:34 mircea_popescu: attn all present jpm bankers. the girl won't leave till she's bled you dry!

01:32:47 moiety: LOL

01:32:50 mircea_popescu: hehe

01:32:57 moiety: but..she bakes!

01:33:07 mircea_popescu: do you pole dance ?

01:33:32 moiety: i feel my art is restricted with equipment

01:33:35 moiety: no

01:33:40 mircea_popescu: supposedly it's great exercise.

01:34:11 moiety: the actual pole spins itself doesn't it, its not as difficult as it looks

01:34:35 mircea_popescu: it can be about as difficult or easy as you want to make it for yourself.

01:34:44 benkay: i think not. strippers can't handle rotational inertia.

01:34:58 mircea_popescu: benkay they actually have both versions.

01:35:13 benkay: o of course

01:35:15 benkay: but you know

01:35:20 benkay: somewhere there's a cutoff.

01:35:22 benkay: 5%

01:35:27 benkay: ?

01:35:28 benkay: 25?

01:35:34 benkay: 2%?*

01:35:36 mircea_popescu: the problem with fixed poles is that girls want to lube it up

01:35:37 benkay: matter of taste.

01:35:41 mircea_popescu: which then gets kind-of disgusting

01:36:01 benkay: which is why they wipe it down with solvent between performances, non?

01:36:07 mircea_popescu: someplaces.

01:36:35 mircea_popescu: the problem with that is the solvent isn't so kind on the sensitive skin of the thigs

01:36:46 benkay: so let it evaporate

01:36:59 benkay: disease transmission's it's own peculiar set of tastes too.

01:37:09 moiety: looking at wiki, i think it just depends on the venue

01:37:18 mircea_popescu: you generally need a bill of health to work anywhere.

01:37:48 moiety: chinese pole dancers use two

01:40:14 mircea_popescu: re winkdex : myeah, we have a serious problem with indexes.

01:43:52 mircea_popescu: lol @ reddit link

01:44:02 mircea_popescu: "ono, someone said mean things to me ON THE INTERWEBS! PLS CARE"

01:45:41 mircea_popescu: and the shit got like 200 votes and comments and whatnot. which clearly shows the importance of social media voting.

01:45:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 46 @ 0.49771739 = 22.895 BTC [-] {7}

01:47:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.51 = 1.02 BTC [+]

01:49:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: multi-armed bandit: http://lalandlab.st-andrews.ac.uk/tournaments/tournament1/sociallearning.html

01:49:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is old news; 2nd tournament is mostly done now, too

01:49:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.07495 = 0.1499 BTC [+] {2}

01:49:52 mircea_popescu: basically the appeal of civ was exactly this

01:49:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: contest inspired by Axelrod's prisoner's dilemma tournament

01:50:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know this inspires me ? one could formalise the problem with strings.

01:50:36 asciilifeform: they sorta did.

01:50:36 moiety: thats just along the road from me!

01:50:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hear me out :

01:51:08 mircea_popescu: you define actual words in the dictionary as "good stuff", and each player gets a selection of poems to complete. words themselves are worth points, filled lines are worth more points, filled poems even more.

01:51:22 mircea_popescu: then you give everyone strings, and they can read one char at a time

01:51:32 mircea_popescu: for a cost. or skip the string, for a larger cost.

01:51:43 BingoBoingo: I just caution against the spring anchored portable poles unless you like driving drunk girls to the ER at odd hours of the morning because they flew into a wall.

01:52:01 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nttawwt.

01:52:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obviously player can only eat a word if the whole word has been read.

01:53:30 asciilifeform: this sound like fun, but the contest was a robot-writing one

01:53:35 asciilifeform: rather than between players directly

01:53:51 asciilifeform: the final reports are worth reading

01:53:56 mircea_popescu: yes yes

01:54:01 mircea_popescu: you have to write the scripts for this.

01:54:18 mircea_popescu: i was just describing what your bot is supposed to do.

01:54:35 mircea_popescu: well not your your. one's.

01:54:50 asciilifeform: what's the goal? to reproduce the poem before the other players?

01:54:57 mircea_popescu: get most moneyz

01:55:20 mircea_popescu: the key here, of course, being that the strings are not all created equal

01:55:29 asciilifeform: 'read one character at a time' << from another player's slate?

01:55:40 mircea_popescu: each string has its own per-character entropy, from epsilon to 8-epsilon

01:55:48 mircea_popescu: no, the string is in the middle.

01:56:05 mircea_popescu: "all players get copies of the same strings" say.

01:56:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: might want to describe this for the simple (i.e. mathematically)

01:56:32 mircea_popescu: that'll be hard ;/

01:56:47 mircea_popescu: ok but let me try.

01:57:20 mircea_popescu: the game board consists of an endless set of strings, which all start as natural language constructs and are "decayed" by bit flipping by an actual rng.

01:57:30 mircea_popescu: once the decay is complete the game board is ready.

01:57:53 mircea_popescu: any number of players can play.

01:58:18 mircea_popescu: each player gets the same copy of the same list of strings. at any point each player has the choice of either reading one more character from their current string or advance ot the next string.

01:58:37 mircea_popescu: each player has a pre-given "Table" consisting of a number of natural language poems. these are actual literature.

01:59:16 mircea_popescu: whenever a player has read a natural language word (ie, from the dictionary) out of the string (exact match, no mixing of letters or anything scrabble-ish) he now has that word.

01:59:33 mircea_popescu: the word on itself is worth something. if the word is actually part of one of the player's poems on their table, it's worth more.

01:59:40 mircea_popescu: if the player completes a line or a poem, more bonuses.

01:59:56 asciilifeform: sounds like a variation on 'Erudit'

01:59:58 mircea_popescu: he wins with the highest score once all players have read all strings.

02:00:00 mircea_popescu: does it ?

02:00:22 mircea_popescu: cause that's what i was wanting, to see if this is original or i'm just ineptly stumbling on well known (to everyone else) history.

02:00:37 asciilifeform: and it's not clear, from this description, that the ideal strategy is any kind of problem

02:01:04 asciilifeform: s/erudit/scrabble

02:01:05 mircea_popescu: why is that ?

02:02:17 asciilifeform: well, consider a bot. he can contain whatever, so he has an embedded dictionary (for the natural language of the poems)

02:02:41 asciilifeform: or, failing that, simply the set of necessary words (all words from his poem slate)

02:02:54 mircea_popescu: no problem. so ?

02:03:09 mircea_popescu: it is a given the bot would contain the dictionaries, sure.

02:03:14 asciilifeform: if the current buffer at any time does not match the beginning of any useful word, switch.

02:03:20 mircea_popescu: uh.

02:03:28 mircea_popescu: so you switch on character 1 of all strings ?

02:03:32 asciilifeform: unless i'm missing something

02:03:48 asciilifeform: not all, but once 'x' becomes 'xy' and there is no 'xylophone' in the table...

02:03:56 mircea_popescu: seems to me a better strategy may be to stick with a not-so-entropic string

02:04:03 mircea_popescu: than to switch and perhaps get a very entropic string.

02:04:13 asciilifeform: illustrate?

02:04:15 mircea_popescu: even if the xy atm has no xylophone.

02:04:31 mircea_popescu: ok. string one : xygfredfoxjumpedoverstan

02:04:46 mircea_popescu: string two acadafabadabababbadaafa

02:05:19 asciilifeform: from whence do the strings come?

02:05:29 mircea_popescu: they all start as natural language constructs

02:05:38 mircea_popescu: and are fuzzed to different (and unknown to players) degrees

02:05:48 mircea_popescu: some are very badly fuzzed. some very slightly. some in between

02:05:58 asciilifeform: random selections from dictionary, then permuted a character at a time before start?

02:06:10 asciilifeform: and with varying degrees of noise?

02:06:12 mircea_popescu: random selections from the poems given out,

02:06:14 mircea_popescu: and then noised.

02:06:24 mircea_popescu: basically the player becomes an exercise to measure the fuzzer parameters

02:06:28 asciilifeform: but noised to differing degrees, deliberately?

02:06:28 mircea_popescu: in a half-blind fashion.

02:06:31 mircea_popescu: yeah.

02:06:40 asciilifeform: then strategy is clear, measure the noise.

02:07:02 mircea_popescu: that in principle is clear, but it helps as much as "capture enemy pieces" helps in chess

02:07:03 mircea_popescu: i suspect.

02:07:10 asciilifeform: certainly.

02:07:14 mircea_popescu: because measuring the noise has a cost in itself.

02:08:16 mircea_popescu: moreover, take our original two strings.

02:08:21 mircea_popescu: when do you measure the noise ?

02:08:24 mircea_popescu: xy is noisier than ac

02:08:30 mircea_popescu: sampling problems.

02:08:46 mircea_popescu: xyg way noisier than aca

02:09:07 asciilifeform: noise being 'frequency of substrings that contain no valid words,' perhaps.

02:09:17 mircea_popescu: 2nd still less noisy

02:09:56 benkay: hey mircea_popescu where's the essay in which you explain why proles can't afford privacy?

02:10:04 asciilifeform: fuck, i've played this game!

02:10:08 asciilifeform: with genetic sequences.

02:10:10 asciilifeform: long story.

02:10:18 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/anonimity-not-for-the-poor/

02:10:19 ozbot: Anonimity : not for the poor. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

02:10:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was going to say, basically this game is the game of fucking life.

02:10:43 mircea_popescu: every programmer ever has basically played this with compilers and errors and blabla.

02:10:45 benkay: thankee sir

02:10:46 mircea_popescu: every engineer idem.

02:11:25 asciilifeform: i meant, literally this game.

02:11:33 asciilifeform: with homology modelling.

02:11:37 mircea_popescu: o wow srsly ?

02:11:40 mircea_popescu: is it named anything ?

02:11:44 asciilifeform: not afaik

02:11:59 mircea_popescu: hey.

02:12:00 asciilifeform: but an actual expert might know. (i was thrown into that line of work by accident.)

02:12:10 mircea_popescu: i guess ima clean it up and put it on the t.

02:12:47 asciilifeform: i also have a hunch that it is a variant of Knapsack Problem

02:12:53 mircea_popescu: it certainly is.

02:12:57 mircea_popescu: im just not sure it's reducible to i.

02:12:59 mircea_popescu: it*

02:13:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.00494 = 0.1037 BTC [+] {2}

02:13:11 asciilifeform: incidentally

02:13:26 asciilifeform: consider this knapsack packer:

02:13:58 asciilifeform: you want, from a set n1, n2, n3, ... nk, a subset such that sum(...) = S

02:14:18 mircea_popescu: blackjack ?

02:14:30 asciilifeform: that was just a simplified restatement of problem;

02:15:00 asciilifeform: now consider a source of light, of known polarization, shining into a tube

02:15:17 asciilifeform: on the other end of tube, a filter which passes only light polarized P degrees.

02:15:53 asciilifeform: in the pipe, slides containing each a matrix of regions of optically rotating substance (chiral whatever)

02:16:15 asciilifeform: each region rotates the light by d1, d2, ... dk degrees.

02:16:30 mircea_popescu: "make porn appear on the screen"

02:16:39 asciilifeform: endgame is an exercise for the alert reader.

02:16:50 asciilifeform: (incl. how to get the answer out.)

02:17:03 asciilifeform: (and how to attach 'weights' to n1, ... nk)

02:17:15 mircea_popescu: your reader needs to be mighty alert.

02:17:24 asciilifeform: result: machine solving knapsack problem in polynomial time.

02:17:37 asciilifeform: (source: my turdbook, circa '08)

02:18:11 mircea_popescu: i bet you the most that comes out of this is some new quantum effect.

02:18:22 asciilifeform: this is a strictly 1900s contraption.

02:18:47 asciilifeform: http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/1organic/graphics/24_19.gif

02:19:11 asciilifeform: (basic principle due to herr pasteur)

02:19:23 benkay: see asciilifeform even MP thinks your readers gotta be super alert.

02:19:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's sans the chiral bits :)

02:19:59 mircea_popescu: you will end up with separation issues at the region boundries i bet.

02:20:02 asciilifeform: damnit, you want that i draw the whole picture, and then some bozo maps knapsack to the discrete logarithm problem

02:20:06 asciilifeform: and then we can go cry

02:20:10 mircea_popescu: derp, they never do.

02:20:20 mircea_popescu: i tell you, the most happening is "wow, look, likght does THAT too ?!"

02:20:28 *: asciilifeform waves to dr. evil reading this

02:20:53 mircea_popescu: recall the early highschool physics "and now the light makes spots, and now the light makes lines"

02:21:02 asciilifeform: it's a brute-forcer for n-SAT, too

02:21:11 asciilifeform: because you can perform modular arithmetic using rotation

02:24:52 asciilifeform: idea is, some scattered light will take the correct path through the rotators

02:25:00 asciilifeform: if you can determine the path, you have answer.

02:27:13 mircea_popescu: but you can't determine the path for very good reasons

02:27:17 mircea_popescu: known since about the 1900s

02:27:24 asciilifeform: not directly.

02:28:34 mircea_popescu: you won't be able to establish the path of light after you've measured its position

02:28:41 mircea_popescu: (tyhrough the rotation)

02:28:43 asciilifeform: no need.

02:28:49 asciilifeform: pull the rotator slides one by one

02:29:02 asciilifeform: and measure the error of the 'answer'

02:29:11 mircea_popescu: i tell you, this is a perpetuum lightmobile.

02:29:42 mircea_popescu: i'm a very theoretical physicist. i have no fucking idea of the formulas involved in physics, but i can tell you when you're wasting your time.

02:31:35 asciilifeform: i don't insist that this is a useful mechanism, that necessarily does 'the job'. only that 1) i never found any trace that it was proposed before 2) i cannot see a 'textbook' reason why it ought not to work

02:32:15 lnovy: (tldr, but...) conservation of energy?

02:32:44 asciilifeform: lnovy: please elaborate?

02:33:42 lnovy: sorry, off-topic problem, as i've said, tldr

02:34:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i for one certainly would like to see it built.

02:34:46 mircea_popescu: lnovy nah, that was just a metaphor.

02:35:01 lnovy: mircea_popescu: :)

02:35:04 asciilifeform: incidentally, 'there are no new ideas', etc. and this is but a minor generalization of shamir's TWINKLE/TWIRL

02:35:13 asciilifeform: which i realized the next day.

02:35:19 mircea_popescu: not so minor.

02:35:31 mircea_popescu: it's actually pretty good sarcasm, re twinkle.

02:35:44 asciilifeform: i only brought this up because armed bandits and knapsacks.

02:38:08 asciilifeform: there's a whole field of weird analogue computers using light, that mostly died out some time last century

02:38:27 asciilifeform: it could use a little help from modern electronics, and come back with a vengeance

02:38:54 asciilifeform: (from the 'weird soviet crap' dept. of my brain)

02:39:31 Duffer1: http://i.imgur.com/JZ85Pgu.gif

02:39:33 asciilifeform: people did amazing things with optics, without any access to coherent light, much less computer

02:39:33 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

02:41:00 greenspan_fan: for instance, fresnel lenses-- a thin sheet that magnifies surprisingly efficiently

02:41:04 moiety: lol duffer thats brilliant

02:42:09 Duffer1: ^.^

02:42:32 moiety: might know this one: http://i.imgur.com/txDa8p9.png

02:42:43 asciilifeform: pop quiz for whoever: how did the discoverer of the 'LED' die?

02:43:36 greenspan_fan: heart disease? cancer? automobile accident?

02:43:41 asciilifeform: no/no/no

02:43:43 moiety: i thought he was still alive

02:43:49 asciilifeform: and no

02:44:00 moiety: wiki lies to meeeeeeeee

02:44:27 asciilifeform: starvation.

02:44:57 moiety: starvation?

02:45:01 greenspan_fan: vis a vis, leningrad. Wikipedia lists three discoverers though

02:45:02 Duffer1: ww2

02:45:04 moiety: im just catching up i see there are three guys

02:46:08 chetty: A Fatwa has been issued against living on Mars by clerics who say that trying to set up home there would be un-Islamic.

02:46:23 moiety: wah i didnt realise it was as early as 1927 he started documenting

02:47:15 benkay: chetty: did you ever read the Red/Green/Blue Mars books?

02:49:04 chetty: nope never heard of those

02:49:49 Duffer1: i've read them, proud to say i didn't skip any pages

02:49:52 benkay: Kim Stanley Robinson. he gets a wee-bit preachy and long in the mouth (like Rand) but has a very vivid story about the different groups who emigrated and why and what they all did with themselves.

02:51:36 chetty: haha just reading about them, seems very timely stuff

02:53:12 Duffer1: the over all story is well worth the overlong theories of possible future technical/civil/economic possibilities

02:54:20 Duffer1: i wonder what KSR would extrapolate from blockchain tech

02:55:01 mircea_popescu: who ?

02:55:10 Duffer1: kim stanley robinson

02:55:18 benkay: it was interesting to see the Accelerando guy take his stance on bitcoin being evil

02:55:28 Duffer1: charles stross

02:55:43 benkay: yeah, him.

02:55:51 benkay: when A. is basically all about what the world looks like after the hidebound states fall over

02:56:15 benkay: although in his vision it was the reputation system that cracked 'em open, not the breaking of the fiat bank.

02:56:21 benkay: makes sense, right? nerds want to have other nerds idolized by nerd-tokens.

02:56:22 Duffer1: which is ironic since his latest book (which was frankly aweful) featured the cryptocurrency idea prominently

02:56:39 mircea_popescu: benkay tell you a secret : if all the people who had been up to this point claimed to be employed at or interested in bitcoin's business had recognised it and moved over,

02:56:45 benkay: not this power-concentrating pure money technology bullshit

02:56:47 mircea_popescu: i'd have been well fucking worried it's all a plant.

02:56:48 asciilifeform: stross, if i'm not mistaken, is the 'other kind' of writer

02:56:52 mircea_popescu: as it is, it's all fine.

02:56:56 asciilifeform: the kind with 'kolhozes on mars'

02:57:14 benkay: ;;ud kolhozes

02:57:15 gribble: Google found nothing.

02:57:15 mircea_popescu: OF COURSE they would fight it tooth and nail. imagine someone invents a solution to all X problems tomorrow.

02:57:29 mircea_popescu: who do you think will fight it in the US ? those currently involved in X right ?

02:57:40 asciilifeform: ;;ud kolkhoz

02:57:41 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kolkhoz | trending. hipster · neknominate · lumpatious · tittybong · poopsterbate · dtf · spectaphile · bae · yolo · pussy. categories. gaming · sports · food · sex · tv · film ...

02:57:41 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: kolkhoz

02:57:53 benkay: this is no secret to me, mircea_popescu

02:57:54 asciilifeform: bah.

02:57:59 mircea_popescu: i know :)

02:58:26 Duffer1: ;; tittybong

02:58:26 gribble: Error: "tittybong" is not a valid command.

02:58:31 Duffer1: ;;ud tittybong

02:58:32 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tittybong | tittybong. a place in Australia but also the act of the female appendage leaping from it's cotton, underwired prison. Can be used as an expression of pleasure...or  ...

02:58:32 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: tittybong

02:58:50 benkay: it's great right?

02:58:58 benkay: bitcoin stable for spring 2014 at 650

02:59:18 benkay: everyone thinks its crazy and or stupid

02:59:22 benkay: the ones who argue a) satoshi hoard and b) implementation-as-specification are right

02:59:25 benkay: but sadly also wrong

02:59:52 benkay: i have no idea how a) will resolve, but b) cannot stand.

03:00:27 mircea_popescu: http://www.btcbeauties.com/donate < check out this shit.

03:00:28 ozbot: Bitcoin Beauties

03:00:33 mircea_popescu: "our project". wtf ?

03:00:55 ThickAsThieves: address starts with a 3?

03:01:09 mircea_popescu: ikr ?

03:01:17 mircea_popescu: fucking weirdest thing i've seen so far today.

03:01:19 benkay: they're excited about growth

03:01:22 benkay: my kinda babes.

03:01:24 pankkake: P2SH address

03:01:27 mircea_popescu: and i mean who wouldn't be.

03:01:35 asciilifeform: the '3' was a monkeywrench thrown by their monkey

03:01:41 asciilifeform: who resented being put to such a task.

03:01:45 benkay: "we appreciate your your support and stoke"

03:01:46 ThickAsThieves: lol

03:01:58 ThickAsThieves: there's something missing too

03:02:02 ThickAsThieves: beauty

03:02:09 mircea_popescu: well they're ok girls, whadda ya want.

03:02:17 benkay: great tits, too.

03:02:19 mircea_popescu: supposing of course the tiny shitty pictures aren't lifted.

03:02:43 benkay: http://www.btcbeauties.com/assets/anto.jpg

03:02:57 ThickAsThieves: i can see a shape of a nipple!

03:03:07 *: ThickAsThieves donates it all.

03:03:49 benkay: blew your wad, eh?

03:03:52 pankkake: girl pics for btc is something reddit is actually useful at

03:04:02 moiety: i go for hot chocolate and miss tits and bongs? ffs ping me next time

03:04:17 mircea_popescu: incidentally re p2sh :

03:04:21 asciilifeform: moiety: you also missed n-sat solver.

03:04:31 mircea_popescu: gavin put in code that made everyone downloading the latest versiion vote "yes" cause he wanted to see a yesz.

03:04:54 mircea_popescu: this got him exactly squat, showing about how important control of the new releases was

03:04:55 mircea_popescu: back in 2012.

03:05:15 benkay: whaaaaat

03:05:25 asciilifeform: p2sh ?

03:05:39 pankkake: well, pools don't really apt-get install bitcoin

03:06:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some braindamaged extension of innate scripting capabilities

03:06:48 mircea_popescu: which was put together suspiciously quickly.

03:06:52 pankkake: but it allows to decentralize everything!

03:06:54 asciilifeform: bip-16 ?

03:06:57 pankkake: yes

03:06:58 mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr was all against it iirc.

03:07:07 mircea_popescu: yeah

03:07:13 pankkake: see, you shouldn't hate Luke-Jr

03:07:19 ThickAsThieves: like against it with his crotch?

03:07:29 mircea_popescu: http://blockchain.info/p2sh << lol. beleeted

03:07:44 mircea_popescu: then there was bip-17, an entire drama.

03:07:46 asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0016.mediawiki

03:07:46 benkay: saw that

03:07:47 asciilifeform: ?

03:07:51 benkay: man if you delete shit

03:08:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.075 = 0.15 BTC [+]

03:08:11 benkay: relevant to past business/coding exploits

03:08:18 benkay: u ams scam.

03:08:20 moiety: went looking for that asciilifeform lol

03:08:22 benkay: what was this forced voting thong?

03:08:24 mircea_popescu: it is pretty fucking stupid.

03:08:37 ThickAsThieves: are bitcoin software updates even going to be possible for much longer?

03:08:38 mircea_popescu: in his defense they "updated" the site like 5x in the interval, because you defo need moar logos and shit

03:08:53 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is a sore spot power rangers would rather not go into.

03:08:54 asciilifeform: trying to figure out the point

03:09:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look into bip-12 too while you're at it.

03:09:14 moiety: i still cant figure out the btcbeauties project apart from trying to hide the fat one

03:09:30 ThickAsThieves: she's just big-boned!

03:10:00 moiety: it's a trap!

03:10:14 pankkake: I like big boneds

03:10:19 mircea_popescu: me either, but i told em to drop by here.

03:10:23 mircea_popescu: maybe they do and then can explain.

03:10:51 moiety: i love how they went on location as probably too embarrassed to strip pff anywhere else

03:11:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.05329996 = 0.3198 BTC [-] {2}

03:11:07 moiety: lol i would love it if they did

03:11:13 moiety: drop by i mean

03:11:13 mircea_popescu: you ever been nude in public ?

03:11:24 benkay: don't they know the assettes only get off on public nudity?

03:11:30 moiety: let's define public. do you mean in view or just in a public place?

03:11:36 mircea_popescu: either way.

03:11:43 moiety: yes but not in view

03:11:48 mircea_popescu: just establishing your credentials to bitch at them >D

03:11:50 asciilifeform: cursory reading of bip-12 suggests that it gives you a coin that sits on a magic addr, from whence it can, say, move to A1, A2, or A3 but nowhere else

03:12:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ono. it pulls up something from the stack.

03:12:12 asciilifeform: sure

03:12:27 asciilifeform: but i'm trying to enumerate the possible cases

03:12:39 mircea_popescu: it could do pretty much anything, such as never stop.

03:12:44 mircea_popescu: (turing complete)

03:12:45 asciilifeform: given that most of the opcodes in the classical client are commented out

03:12:53 asciilifeform: (or were, last i checked)

03:13:32 asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, pissing on this particular electric fence is strictly voluntary.

03:13:45 mircea_popescu: yup

03:14:21 asciilifeform: bip-12 appears to specify a max recursion depth of 2

03:14:32 mircea_popescu: the argument isn't "o wow look btc is broken", the argument merely is "o hey, remember when gavin was a total asshat in 2012 ?"

03:14:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform admitting it is actually enforced.

03:15:24 asciilifeform: the devs stay on their ceremonial throne until the first bugocalypse.

03:15:49 asciilifeform: after that, they go somewhere else...

03:16:17 asciilifeform: will be interesting to see what becomes of the empty throne.

03:16:27 moiety: how many bips are there?

03:16:41 asciilifeform: moiety: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips

03:16:50 moiety: thank you asciilifeform

03:17:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]

03:17:24 asciilifeform: wait a sec

03:17:27 moiety: jesus, lots

03:17:28 asciilifeform: bip-61

03:17:40 asciilifeform: 'standard' and link -> 404 ?!

03:18:06 asciilifeform: nm

03:24:20 moiety: sorry you guys hearts must sink when i come in

03:24:51 jayk: i really hate commercials that have a doorbell

03:25:00 jayk: especially ones that sound exactly like mine

03:25:15 benkay: my heart sinks when truffles comes in.

03:25:24 moiety: lol i had a parrot that meowed and did the phone

03:26:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50004999 = 1.0001 BTC [-] {2}

03:31:17 bloctoc: I apologize if it's already been discussed, but does anyone seen significance in mtgox stopping the drop today?

03:32:18 benkay: "stopping the drop"?

03:32:21 benkay: ;;ticker --market mtgox

03:32:22 gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 262.345, Best ask: 264.695, Bid-ask spread: 2.35000, Last trade: 262.345, 24 hour volume: 33931.23630368, 24 hour low: 257.10001, 24 hour high: 298.0, 24 hour vwap: 265.3911

03:32:46 Duffer1: did they suspend trading or did the market stop selling?

03:33:07 jcpham: Winkdex!

03:33:24 bloctoc: if you look at 24 hour chart, there seems to be a willingness to buy at 261

03:33:56 bloctoc: wondering if that's where mtgox needs the price to be to recapitalize.

03:38:19 moiety: this is how gox is protecting itself from closure. If they don't let anyone withdraw ever again, they can't ever really close

03:38:48 moiety: (kidding)

03:40:56 benkay: not that good of a joke

03:40:59 benkay: too close to home

03:41:18 benkay: at least in their minds...

03:44:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 39 @ 0.00494 = 0.1927 BTC [+]

03:45:01 mike_c: 1) stop withdrawals. 2) use your 'unlimited account' to buy btc at 260. 3) use whatever you have left in the sofa cushions to process some withdrawals and restore some confidence 4) sell some of your cheap coins and use funds to process more withdrawals. 5) goto step 4.

03:47:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24814 @ 0.00086611 = 21.4917 BTC [+] {2}

03:54:20 Jere_Jones: http://i.imgur.com/N8kbDck.jpg

03:55:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37950 @ 0.00086614 = 32.87 BTC [+] {2}

03:55:58 benkay: amen.

03:59:36 moiety: i nabbed that

03:59:46 mircea_popescu: nice album art.

04:00:08 mircea_popescu: "A number of government lawyers involved in lawsuits over the NSA phone-records program believe federal-court rules on preserving evidence related to lawsuits require the agency to stop routinely destroying older phone records"

04:00:19 mircea_popescu: aka the "We must spy because you're sueing us about our spying" defense.

04:00:55 mike_c: http://www.btcalpha.com/blog/2014/panacea-opens-the-books/

04:00:57 ozbot: Panacea Opens The Books - Btc Alpha

04:01:10 mircea_popescu: o hey.

04:01:15 benkay: well done mike_c

04:01:16 mircea_popescu: is this an exclusive ?

04:01:24 mike_c: you didn't even read it yet benkay!

04:01:31 mike_c: mircea_popescu: yup

04:01:38 mircea_popescu: so say so in the piece noob :D

04:01:46 mike_c: srsly.

04:01:52 mike_c: pr fail

04:01:56 mircea_popescu: next time.

04:02:25 mircea_popescu: i hereby summarize assets for all future times :

04:02:28 benkay: talking about the scoop, mike_c :0

04:02:34 mike_c: oh :)

04:02:41 mircea_popescu: "hey guise! check out this neat thing i did" "x" "o fuck me".

04:03:41 mircea_popescu: through its first five months of operations

04:03:42 mircea_popescu: s ?

04:03:57 mike_c: August through january. i think that's 5

04:04:13 mircea_popescu: but first five months of operation neh ?

04:04:14 mike_c: fuck

04:04:16 mike_c: that's 6

04:04:46 pankkake: great article

04:04:51 mircea_popescu: nice data.

04:05:03 moiety: that's very nice mike_c :)

04:05:06 mike_c: thanks. credit to kakobrekla for sending that along. very cool of him.

04:06:31 kakobrekla: o very cool

04:10:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 108 @ 0.003 = 0.324 BTC [+]

04:10:17 Apocalyptic: nice article mike_c

04:10:29 moiety: there he is lol hi kakobrekla

04:11:01 kakobrekla: yes, here. hi!

04:11:16 mike_c: Apocalyptic: thanks. also, i believe awhile ago you mentioned you were interested in the income investments section, so check out http://www.btcalpha.com/income/. it's version 1, but still some useful info i think.

04:11:29 Apocalyptic: just reading it now :)

04:12:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 54 @ 0.00482148 = 0.2604 BTC [-] {7}

04:14:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.48103001 = 4.3293 BTC [-] {2}

04:14:58 benkay: i think the assettes crashed your server, mike_c.

04:15:18 benkay: leastaways /income/ isn't serving anything for me.

04:15:47 *: benkay goes back to the ragel documentation

04:15:53 mike_c: browser?

04:16:05 mike_c: sry chan, i'll pm.

04:16:45 benkay: yeah it may be a browser thing

04:16:53 benkay: no man fuckit! debug in -assets! this is how we roll.

04:17:06 mike_c: ok! so what browser/os we working with here?

04:17:21 benkay: os x, firefox.

04:17:29 mike_c: oh, i don't support mac

04:17:32 mike_c: (kidding)

04:17:47 benkay: highchart js is the long-loading one.

04:17:55 benkay: and nevermind.

04:18:04 mike_c: loading?

04:18:14 benkay: nondeterministicwebbug.

04:18:19 mike_c: cool

04:18:19 benkay: mhm

04:18:21 benkay: "did you clear your cache?"

04:18:25 benkay: "did you restart your browser"

04:18:29 benkay: "did you restart your computer"

04:18:43 mike_c: you don't have to clear cache. i version my static files like a good webdev.

04:18:52 benkay: "are you running ie8?"

04:18:53 moiety: i was just reading the income page - nice page mike_c

04:18:58 benkay: lost an ie8 argument recently

04:19:06 greenspan_fan: what's an ie8 argument?

04:19:06 mike_c: thanks moiety. there is more to come on that page.

04:19:14 mike_c: should we support it.

04:19:17 moiety: bookmarked you!

04:19:23 benkay: that'd make you a better dev than most webbers.

04:19:23 mike_c: awesome

04:19:29 benkay: mike_c: you're still serving directly from highcharts.

04:19:55 mike_c: yes, that one i didn't want to bother serving locally. but i will probably change that b/c their server is down more than mine.

04:19:56 benkay: and i think it's a blocking call.

04:20:10 mike_c: ok, maybe i'll change it now.

04:20:46 kakobrekla: well since you are already taking complaints, in opera next witch already uses webkit, some charts get broked

04:21:05 kakobrekla: but i understand if you will not fix it

04:21:09 mircea_popescu: drama chick after performance : "how come people on stage never throw tomatoes @ the audience"

04:21:13 kakobrekla: i prolly wouldnt

04:21:49 mike_c: i already installed opera just for you kako. opera next is probably beyond your service contract.

04:21:51 Apocalyptic: who does use opera these days anyway

04:21:57 benkay: mike_c: did you see mircea_popescu's point a few days ago about the flipside of "you can raise it but you can't spend it"?

04:21:58 kakobrekla: LMAFO

04:22:05 kakobrekla: hats off mike_c

04:22:11 Apocalyptic: *except in somalia

04:22:54 mike_c: benkay: recently? don't think so. i've been around for a couple discussions on the topic.

04:23:02 Bugpowder: Semi-rational mutagenesis

04:23:45 benkay: mike_c: the basic gist is that you can't spend it when btc price is going up 'cause derp, but then when you don't spend it in time you get a reaming from investors.

04:23:52 benkay: for failing to capitalize on high price.

04:24:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 239 @ 0.00299999 = 0.717 BTC [-] {2}

04:24:29 mike_c: hah, yeah, i read that. but that is a minor consideration against the order of magnitude changes when it goes up.

04:24:38 Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: I played that game quite a bit in grad school.

04:24:42 Bugpowder: For example http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/16/e78

04:24:49 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder o hey so it has a name and everything ?

04:24:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check it out

04:25:08 Bugpowder: Well, it's not exactly the same game but similar enough

04:25:34 Bugpowder: You use degenerate PCR primers to evolve and screen fluorescent protein genes

04:25:38 mircea_popescu: shorter alphabet basicall ?

04:25:44 Bugpowder: trying to find an new one that matches

04:25:49 Bugpowder: well... 4 characters

04:25:50 mircea_popescu: shorter alphabet / longer verses.

04:26:01 Bugpowder: but you mutate base on the codons

04:26:17 Bugpowder: so 3^3 'letters'

04:26:27 mircea_popescu: interesting

04:26:32 Bugpowder: since you need 3 to actually code an amino acid.

04:26:47 mircea_popescu: but isn't it 3^4 then ?

04:27:04 Bugpowder: uhhh

04:27:07 Bugpowder: 4^3

04:27:08 Bugpowder: yeah

04:27:11 mircea_popescu: right

04:27:15 Bugpowder: though some represent the same letter

04:27:16 Bugpowder: http://dps.plants.ox.ac.uk/langdalelab/protocols/PCR/degenerate_primer.pdf

04:27:34 Bugpowder: So you can specify ATGC

04:27:35 mircea_popescu: well cool!

04:27:58 Bugpowder: OR you can specify a blend of two, three or all four randomly assorted at that position

04:28:24 Bugpowder: Say you want to evolve a fluorescent protein to glow a different color

04:28:51 Bugpowder: you suspect that a few amino acids near the core chromophore will influence the color

04:29:45 Bugpowder: So you do a PCR reaction (make billions of copies of the DNA), but use primers that have these selective random patches at the points in the sequence you want to sample the variation space in

04:30:02 moiety: thats ace

04:30:19 moiety: why are oxford uni using comic sans

04:30:20 Bugpowder: your new gene sequence now has randomizations at those spots, as specified by your primer blend

04:30:25 mircea_popescu: right.

04:31:17 Bugpowder: then you mix the genes into a bunch of bacteria, and dilute the solution really far down, then spread it over many agar plates

04:31:52 Bugpowder: each bacteria that got one of the mutant genes in it will grow an independent colony

04:32:04 Bugpowder: hundreds or thousands on a plate

04:32:54 Bugpowder: and you can put them under a fluorescent light to see if you A) fucked the protein up or B) changed its color slightly. Take your best hits, sequence the gene to see what you've got, then repeat the process.

04:33:08 Bugpowder: This is how one gene, GFP, the green fluorescent protein

04:33:13 Bugpowder: Turned into many colors.

04:34:04 Bugpowder: Here is a painting of various color fluoresncet bacteria on a plate... created by this game...

04:34:05 Bugpowder: http://tsienlab.ucsd.edu/HTML/Images/IMAGE%20-%20PLATE%20-%20Beach.jpg

04:34:54 Bugpowder: Most mutations kill the fluorescence (they don't match literate word, as a metaphor)

04:35:37 Bugpowder: but a few work... Just need to find them.. by flipping 2-3 letters at a time

04:35:54 Bugpowder: Alternatively you can use error-prone PCR, which makes random mutations everywhere

04:36:07 Bugpowder: instead of targeted

04:36:46 mircea_popescu: ok that's pretty cool

04:37:13 Bugpowder: OR you can insert the gene into the hyper somatic recombination region of B cells (this is how antibody diversity is generated in your own immune system), and then let the B cells mutate the protein for you

04:37:30 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder did you obtain the painting by smear selected bacteria or by smearing uniform bacteria with particular mutagen ?

04:37:32 Bugpowder: Then you just sort millions of cells over and over again till you enrich the color you want.

04:37:49 Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: That was made by the former

04:37:54 mircea_popescu: aha

04:38:01 Bugpowder: different colors has already been evolved

04:38:10 mircea_popescu: i can't help but think you're pretty close to biofilm 3d printing.

04:38:43 Bugpowder: Then a friend made a pallete of different color bacteria and painted the plate with a dilute solution of them. Waited 48 hours and that was the impressive result

04:38:57 Bugpowder: (its under UV illumination)

04:39:20 mircea_popescu: which... you know, if galateea ever happens...

04:39:29 moiety: Bugpowder, may i please use this picture?

04:39:50 Bugpowder: It's on wikipedia

04:39:52 Bugpowder: I think.

04:39:55 moiety: fab

04:40:01 Bugpowder: I think I put it there many years ago

04:40:22 Bugpowder: Yup

04:40:22 Bugpowder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fluorescent_protein

04:40:23 ozbot: Green fluorescent protein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

04:40:28 moiety: it is really cool, i started an album after the illustrating science challenge last year

04:40:31 Bugpowder: BTW this work won the 2008 Nobel prize.

04:40:36 Bugpowder: in Chemistry

04:41:30 mircea_popescu: pretty cool.

04:41:49 moiety: i need glofish in my life

04:42:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48103666 = 1.4431 BTC [+] {3}

04:42:58 moiety: A Japanese-American Team created green-fluorescent cats as proof of concept to use them potentially as model organisms for diseases, particularly HIV.[42] I volunteer to look after them

04:44:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for your warez pleasure: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lightproc.djvu

04:45:06 mircea_popescu: uh.

04:45:08 mircea_popescu: djvu ?

04:45:27 Bugpowder: downstream application... Total brain network activity imaging.

04:45:28 Bugpowder: http://www.nature.com/news/flashing-fish-brains-filmed-in-action-1.12621

04:45:28 ozbot: Flashing fish brains filmed in action : Nature News & Comment

04:45:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'optical methods of signal processing.' v. d. svet. 1971

04:45:37 Bugpowder: Works best in fish tho

04:45:44 Bugpowder: transparent

04:46:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: example, p. 69, optical 'correlator'

04:46:50 Bugpowder: Also

04:46:51 Bugpowder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EYbjW3wgwY

04:46:51 ozbot: Watching a mouse's brain think about running with GCaMP3 - YouTube

04:46:59 asciilifeform: pure gold

04:47:07 mircea_popescu: ah

04:47:44 Bugpowder: Need sleep. Laterzzz

04:47:45 moiety: thats incredible

04:48:14 moiety: cya Bugpowder thanks for le links!

04:48:53 mircea_popescu: for a glimpse at my forum digests :

04:48:56 Bugpowder: I built the gene in the mouse video... the fish video is 2 more series of evolution better...

04:48:56 mircea_popescu: crypto-trade (neotrix's deal that used to be an altcoin marketplace, and

04:48:56 mircea_popescu: which i beat the shit out of when they decided to start letting people

04:48:56 mircea_popescu: list securities, and which has been fucking up massively since, and which

04:48:56 mircea_popescu: i've been back to say hey next time listen to me before you get into this

04:48:56 mircea_popescu: sorta mess) is jumping on board the "o no malleability is preventing us

04:48:57 mircea_popescu: from paying out" wagon

04:48:59 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149458.700

04:49:47 greenspan_fan: anyone seriously concerned about a price collapse if it turns out most exchanges were as incompetent as mt gox?

04:50:06 mircea_popescu: not really.

04:50:22 Chris_Sabian: dont think that is possible

04:50:26 mircea_popescu: people thought silk road is fundamental to bitcoin value. it closed, no ill effects recorded.

04:50:40 greenspan_fan: there were ill effects, but it was kinda priced in at that point

04:50:41 mircea_popescu: people imagine exchanges are fundamental to bitcoin price. they'll close, no ill effects to be recorded.

04:50:43 Chris_Sabian: save the drop in price from 135-88-120

04:50:50 asciilifeform: (for anyone unfamiliar with 'djvu', it's an old but irreplaceable format specifically for warez scans. wavelet-compressed images. no turing-complete vector rendering as in pdf.)

04:50:52 greenspan_fan: people immediately bought on the dip

04:52:02 greenspan_fan: the concern is that speculation is pretty fundamental to current price and exchanges facilitate that

04:52:44 mircea_popescu: speculation of the sort and type that the exchanges enable and reddit/forum/.etc support is about as fundamental to bitcoin as druggies were.

04:53:05 Chris_Sabian: look the last 2 steep rises, april and nov-dec. the price shot up then peaked and dropped to ~1/2 value

04:53:22 Chris_Sabian: it stayed that way for several months

04:53:59 greenspan_fan: it kinda depends if it's past the point where adoption is widespread enough to sustain an economy w/o needing easy conversion between fiat and btc

04:54:06 asciilifeform: perhaps if the public exchanges perish, people will be cured of the habit of treating 'btc price in X' as a scalar.

04:54:23 benkay: dat fuzzy probability zone

04:54:29 benkay: "how much does a bitcoin cost?"

04:54:32 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan "adoption" means something strictly different from pageviews

04:54:44 mircea_popescu: bitcoin's adoption among people worth six digits or less is irrelevant.

04:54:46 benkay: "how good is your WOT?"

04:54:50 Chris_Sabian: http://coinmap.org/

04:54:51 ozbot: CoinMap

04:55:00 asciilifeform: what does cocaine cost. or, for that matter, aluminum.

04:55:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and perhaps we'll be fucking rid of all the forum investors.

04:55:08 mircea_popescu: im all for it.

04:55:20 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu worth how? I have less than 100 000 btc, for example

04:55:30 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan dollah i meant.

04:57:20 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is like, you know, reactionary, conservative, evil, sane. you're either rich or smart or invisible.

04:57:27 asciilifeform: the answer here, i suspect, depends on whether you like the taste of bullocks.

04:57:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more like cats.

04:58:00 mircea_popescu: bullocks would be ok, but the "six digits or less" is equal to saying in that other context "60 kgs or over"

04:58:14 greenspan_fan: but it's also pretty experimental, is the thing

04:58:19 mircea_popescu: so is atc.

04:59:34 greenspan_fan: there's a few things like mathematical breakthroughs re: hash functions or serious bugs in the client that could tank the price

04:59:43 mircea_popescu: definitely.

04:59:57 mircea_popescu: serious bugs not so much, really.

04:59:59 greenspan_fan: (or, if you prefer, value) and it's hard to account for those

05:00:05 mircea_popescu: hash function can be a huge problem.

05:00:27 mircea_popescu: this incidentally is why bitcoin addresses are encoded so layeredly.

05:00:45 mircea_popescu: even if you somehow bash one hash function in, you still don't really have enough yet

05:00:52 mircea_popescu: and stuff will have to be emergency-migrated.

05:01:12 greenspan_fan: if you're able to break SHA-256 you'd end up w/ a majority of the hashing power if you were smart

05:01:18 greenspan_fan: then couldn't you block the migration?

05:01:25 chetty: https://discuss.financialjuice.com/uploads/default/1300/009b0c1ddc148fee.jpg

05:01:42 mircea_popescu: not practically.

05:01:55 mircea_popescu: if your crack is not known, then maybe for a while you can benefit from it.

05:02:14 mircea_popescu: if it IS known however the code will just be patched to take it out, and people will move on the new system for cause

05:02:20 mircea_popescu: and you can do whatever you want on the old chain.

05:02:44 greenspan_fan: but how do you coordinate moving to the new system? and what if that takes too long?

05:02:55 mircea_popescu: it takes all of five minutes

05:03:07 mircea_popescu: "hi guise, here is problem, here is patch, pls install so and so"

05:03:23 greenspan_fan: I think you're underestimating how hard it would be to patch

05:03:34 mircea_popescu: or maybe you overestimate.

05:03:42 mircea_popescu: what's the thinking ?

05:04:05 mircea_popescu: (your q was as to coordinate moving, not as to patching, mind)

05:04:17 greenspan_fan: well look at transaction malleability; doesn't seem like a huge problem, but it hasn't been fixed yet

05:04:26 mircea_popescu: well ?

05:04:34 Apocalyptic: it's not an issue

05:04:42 mircea_popescu: when you say sha was breached you're not describing some nitnoy thing nobody cares about.

05:04:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.48101 = 0.962 BTC [-]

05:05:41 greenspan_fan: well yeah, but there comes a point when subverting btc is the most profitable use of a breakthrough, hence the first thing it'd be used for

05:05:49 mircea_popescu: so ?

05:06:20 greenspan_fan: in the interim between breach, patch being devised and patch being promulgated, you'd have zero activity

05:06:50 mircea_popescu: so you would.

05:07:04 greenspan_fan: and that doesn't constitute a huge problem?

05:07:05 Duffer1: that assumes a patch hasn't already been made

05:07:12 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan not really. bitcoin is not visa.

05:08:02 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu as you say, not a problem for reasonably wealthy individuals, but it means that if you don't already have a lot of fiat currency, you can't rely on bitcoin

05:08:16 Duffer1: software changes, it'd be annoying sure and the media shitfest will be epic, but neither of those things matter

05:08:39 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan not sure if you ever read http://fraudsters.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/#comment-92015 ?

05:08:54 greenspan_fan: one sec, finding a new proxy...

05:08:55 mircea_popescu: and no, you should not rely on bitcoin. this has been explicitly stated since day one. bitcoin is not here for you to rely on.

05:10:57 benkay: greenspan_fan: you don't need credits for comments.

05:11:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06800001 = 0.136 BTC [-]

05:11:27 KRS-One: .bait

05:11:29 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/0230a601ff554ecdd6d2941552f4d89f/tumblr_msi3siUEvs1r1rxrbo1_500.jpg

05:14:58 greenspan_fan: OK, so the contention is that things that are faster to process (such as cash or credit) are expected to allow for retail level/immediate transaction, while btc is more of a long term store of value, right?

05:16:37 mircea_popescu: well, more of a long term slower moving thing yeah

05:16:52 mircea_popescu: let's do some napkin calculations here.

05:17:06 greenspan_fan: brb, all I have is paper

05:17:12 mircea_popescu: built-in ccp delay on a payment, ~1 second. built in btc delay on a payment, ~10 minutes.

05:17:30 mircea_popescu: tolerable ccp service outage, ~one day, from experience so far.

05:17:42 mircea_popescu: thus therefore, tolerable btc outage should be something like 2 years.

05:18:28 greenspan_fan: absent some other similar currency overtaking it due to the delay

05:18:28 mircea_popescu: obviously presuming liniarty and so on and so forth, but just for the sake of it.

05:18:45 greenspan_fan: which is the case for the short term

05:18:50 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan well presumably whatever suspends btc suspends all btc-likes

05:18:56 mircea_popescu: otherwise btc is just borkt and needs fixing

05:19:13 asciilifeform: time to digest a meal: ~6 hours. does that mean that one should be able to go without meal for ~72 yrs?

05:19:15 benkay: not that this actually prevents anyone from exchanging btc, provided they're sufficiently trusty

05:19:24 benkay: "here - take this pre-signed transaction"

05:19:35 mircea_popescu: benkay actually, no trust needed.

05:19:44 benkay: now, you're dependent on the technical ability of your counterparty to track and not double-spend.

05:19:46 mircea_popescu: "here, take this pre-signed tx, put it in your block"

05:20:06 mircea_popescu: i mean, we can do blockchain propagation and mining via email ffs.

05:20:21 mircea_popescu: this was actually tested back in the old days of mpoe, works just fine.

05:20:25 benkay: well what does it mean for bitcoin to be stopped!?

05:20:31 mircea_popescu: ikr?

05:21:11 asciilifeform: is there a scenario with 'paper & pencil btc' that does not reduce to simply 'Hawala' ?

05:21:13 benkay: i'm going back to figuring out how to represent a 32-bit int in ragel on java.

05:21:22 mircea_popescu: fucking java.

05:21:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if one takes a conceptual hawala rather than any particular historical implementation, no.

05:21:44 benkay: you can say that again.

05:21:49 benkay: "stench of the cube farm"

05:21:52 mircea_popescu: course this is more of a case of hawala reduces to bitcoin

05:22:43 greenspan_fan: Well, given the above, I expect that btc is just a placeholder for something that will have numerous quantitative technical improvements.

05:22:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> time to digest a meal: ~6 hours. does that mean that one should be able to go without meal for ~72 yrs << yes, if they were a payment processor.

05:23:03 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan so did satoshi.

05:23:11 mircea_popescu: reality does not care what we expect, turns out.

05:23:21 benkay: i expect a new whore at the door

05:23:34 greenspan_fan: how does one calculate EV in whores?

05:23:41 asciilifeform: to go back to the 'peasant never saw a gold coin' scenario. a peasant, correct. how about a shipyard?

05:24:03 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan not clear, but er is the clap.

05:24:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform go on ?

05:24:24 asciilifeform: idea being, gold was never purely a long-term store

05:25:18 greenspan_fan: at some point, you need to be able to exchange for things to have value

05:25:45 benkay: but the "you" here can vary, and does not include pizzas

05:25:45 asciilifeform: one can picture a degenerate case - e.g. hydrogen bomb

05:26:15 benkay: more like "o now i have credit for a billion pizzas at this local bitcoin brokerage"

05:26:15 greenspan_fan: wouldn't the degenerate case be a strangelet?

05:27:00 asciilifeform: in the sense of the ultimate 'trading sardine'

05:27:32 asciilifeform: (strongly negative 'use value')

05:28:34 asciilifeform: trying to think of items which act as store of value in some useful sense without really being spendable

05:29:15 asciilifeform: and whether the phrase 'store of value' even makes sense here.

05:29:46 greenspan_fan: perhaps things that would fall under the category of intellectual property?

05:30:15 benkay: it's arguably only contextual in a world in which nobody can really ant their hard work away.

05:30:18 greenspan_fan: I can't spend "knowing how to make an engine", but knowing that I can do that (and having the plans/information to do so) stores value

05:30:19 benkay: or rather it's astronomically difficult to do so.

05:31:45 asciilifeform: we can talk about 'storing energy' and come to rational conclusions about physically-real things (e.g. organisms.) and then we can talk about storing 'value', and end up with pseudo-scientific strange...

05:31:53 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan this seems to me a completely unwarranted generalisation that actrually breaks logic.

05:32:14 mircea_popescu: no, it does not "store value" any more than "empathy" as used by the libertard is either human or virtuous.

05:32:17 asciilifeform: 'value' is phlogiston.

05:32:43 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu you're right, it does seem to beg the question...

05:33:27 greenspan_fan: trying to define why something is valuable is hard enough without also restricting the ability to spend it

05:33:33 mircea_popescu: not that there's anything wrong with trying anything and everything on the beast.

05:33:46 mircea_popescu: roughly we're in the situation of "dragon moved in hillside next to village"

05:33:53 mircea_popescu: threowing a virgin that way once or twice is sensible.

05:34:54 asciilifeform: to complete the picture, 'dragon' turns out to be a peculiarly-shaped active volcano.

05:35:06 mircea_popescu: no it's a dragon

05:35:11 mircea_popescu: you're just looking at its zit.

05:35:17 asciilifeform: precisely that.

05:36:39 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> idea being, gold was never purely a long-term store <<< this will need fleshing out.

05:36:45 mircea_popescu: seems to me it was purely a long term store.

05:36:51 mircea_popescu: people short-term stored in silver.

05:38:23 chetty: storing value is actually a bet isn't it? That there will be a future to use it in.

05:38:32 mircea_popescu: that's no sort of bet.

05:38:37 mircea_popescu: if there's no future you've not lost anything.

05:39:01 greenspan_fan: opportunity cost, assuming you could store elsewhere, which you can

05:39:04 chetty: yeah you have, the use today of whatever you stored

05:40:17 greenspan_fan: btc will continue to be valuable because it has previously been valuable and there's the expectation that, over some acceptable time period, you can exchange it

05:41:25 greenspan_fan: the uncertainty comes from the second part, because it's a new protocol and it's difficult to predict what might impact your ability to exchange it

05:42:43 greenspan_fan: the things I'm thinking of are either flaws in the protocol, flaws in the software, concerted regulation or an attack via a sufficiently powerful adversary

05:43:33 asciilifeform: the common factor between btc and gold, etc. is (no surprise to anyone, i hope) - behaviour as a closed (i.e. conserved) system, and easily verified as such

05:44:32 greenspan_fan: how much would it cost to get enough hashing power to wreck the network? how long would you have to disrupt the network before it becomes far less valuable?

05:44:48 asciilifeform: recommended reading: the different ways in which self-proclaimed alchemists were treated in various times and places.

05:44:56 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan it's not strictly a matter of cost.

05:45:08 mircea_popescu: people are currently desperate to buy stuff to wreck the network with

05:45:10 mircea_popescu: noone's selling.

05:45:33 mircea_popescu: the computational cost of the network has been calculated, on fraudsters, it was scary back then. it's way worse now.

05:45:57 asciilifeform: this is predicated on the assumption of brute force, though.

05:45:59 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/

05:46:00 ozbot: Things that matter these days ; things that don’t matter these days. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mirce

05:46:02 mircea_popescu: article in question.

05:46:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well sure.

05:46:42 greenspan_fan: as an example, if you were paypal, could you afford to design, build, and power enough asics to wreck the network?

05:47:16 mircea_popescu: look throguh the math there, do your own calculations.

05:47:35 BingoBoingo: Depends on who finds the shortcut. If someone manages to math in a way that a GPU hashes like an army of buttfuries, they may just quietly collect coins. coins.

05:48:12 mircea_popescu: then someone emulates quantum computers in a zx80 emulator emularted within a gpu card and bam

05:49:52 mircea_popescu: ahahaha von-schlep

05:49:58 asciilifeform: any one of you folks who wants to actually give this a go, scroll up the log to find the n-sat solver... haha

05:50:45 asciilifeform: '...the first woodpecker would destroy civilization' - but he can't be arsed.

05:51:02 greenspan_fan: it's a question of economics-- is subverting a cryptocurrency worth more to you than profiting from it?

05:51:29 asciilifeform: 'some just wanna watch it burn'

05:52:15 greenspan_fan: "if you want a picture of the future, it's us collecting a 3% transaction fee... forever"

05:55:09 mircea_popescu: http://minigame.bz/eulora/binaries/ << new eulora release.

05:55:27 mircea_popescu: includes source. davout pankkake

05:55:43 mircea_popescu: and i forget who else was asking me about it.

05:56:02 mircea_popescu: it also includes basic crafting and skill training and harvesting and recipes and stuff.

05:56:20 mod6: cool!

05:56:39 greenspan_fan: what is it?

05:58:20 chetty: greenspan_fan, eulora, mmorpg

05:59:56 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: can you quickly say, what is the largest number of legal moves possible for one chess player, in any position?

06:00:16 BingoBoingo: I cannot.

06:00:24 asciilifeform: (i can easily estimate an upper bound, using 'ah he has 16 queens')

06:00:57 asciilifeform: idly wondering about a 'provably fair' blockchain chess-for-coin

06:01:00 asciilifeform: as i fall asleep

06:01:22 BingoBoingo: Sure, but tightening that upper bound gets messy. Even 16 queens block each other, restricting movement.

06:01:38 asciilifeform: sure

06:02:45 asciilifeform: my 1st thought was 'referee has canonical enumerator for legal moves. player moves by encoding integer M'

06:02:58 asciilifeform: 'first player who cannot M > 0 lost'

06:03:07 asciilifeform: but then, repeated-move stalemates

06:03:18 asciilifeform: and the like

06:04:12 BingoBoingo: That could work.

06:04:13 asciilifeform: (for completeness of picture, first player who moves with M' > M (illegal) also lost. clearly.)

06:04:56 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan http://fraudsters.com/category/smg/

06:04:56 asciilifeform: if the bip-whatever voodoo mentioned earlier actually gets baked into the blockchain, one could conceivably play this game

06:05:06 asciilifeform: without a referee

06:05:47 BingoBoingo: Then there's the part where M=0 stalemates exist.

06:05:52 asciilifeform: (the pot would automagically move to the winner)

06:05:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no because each game could only be played once ?

06:06:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: moves would be carried out by sending to an addr generated for the purpose

06:06:40 mircea_popescu: uh

06:06:41 asciilifeform: low bits of sum <-> move

06:07:03 asciilifeform: winner keeps the total

06:07:25 asciilifeform: of course, this is foolish, because we've the angels but not the pin-head.

06:07:29 asciilifeform: unless i'm missing something.

06:10:20 BingoBoingo: Well, it would require all four low digits.

06:10:54 asciilifeform: sure, for a low stake game, the moves are the pot.

06:11:32 asciilifeform: you could play this right now, sans voodoo, and it would look quite like the 'provably fair' dice widgets

06:12:06 asciilifeform: (someone is driving the payouts, but you can trivially verify, having only the blockchain, that he never did anything other than the Right Thing)

06:12:45 asciilifeform: hell, no fancy encodings needed, just stuff normal algebraic notation in

06:12:54 BingoBoingo: Right.

06:12:55 moiety: yay a new way i could lose?

06:13:24 asciilifeform: (12 bits)

06:14:55 asciilifeform: this is so trivial, that if it does not already exist, it is purely from lack of interest in the game

06:16:09 asciilifeform: is worth considering even if you don't like to play for coin. encourages slow games...

06:16:16 BingoBoingo: Sure.

06:20:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5049 BTC [+]

06:22:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5049 BTC [+]

06:23:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5049 BTC [+]

06:29:36 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/krtek_net/status/436386804372344832

06:29:37 ozbot: Twitter / krtek_net: Mtgox is sorting orders, waiiting ...

06:29:40 mircea_popescu: lmao check out this shit.

06:30:39 mircea_popescu: who was asking about "interveaving" ?

06:31:50 benkay: intervaging

06:32:37 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bloctoc there is oyur answer : it stopped dropping because they've stopped executing orders under X value.

06:32:38 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:32:48 mircea_popescu: if you put an order to sell they'll just delay it until someone bids enough.

06:33:57 benkay: thereby guaranteeing a rapid dissolution of fractional reserve?

06:34:13 benkay: "oops! guess we ran out."

06:35:14 BingoBoingo: I'm impressed it took them this long.

06:35:36 mircea_popescu: benkay all it seems it'd do would be cut down volume

06:36:01 mircea_popescu: i suppose maybe maintain the appearance of things working in the eyes of complete noobs for an extra... hours ? coupla days ?

06:36:19 benkay: is there a bitbet on capitulation?

06:36:50 mircea_popescu: not afaik

06:39:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06801 = 0.204 BTC [+]

06:40:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.068 = 0.272 BTC [-]

06:40:37 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/smg-eulora-v004/ <<

06:40:38 ozbot: S.MG - Eulora v0.0.4 pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

06:43:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10199999 BTC [+]

06:52:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00086615 = 26.331 BTC [+]

07:00:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5 = 1 BTC [-]

07:04:02 moiety: people are so ridiculous. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/japan-woman-chased-by-stampeding-herd-rabbits-video-1437033 they say she makes a lucky escape....

07:04:11 moiety: she's fucking feeding them!

07:05:34 BingoBoingo: If it can happen to Jimmy Carter.

07:09:32 moiety: lol! i didn't know about this "incident"

07:10:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48112 BTC [-]

07:10:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00086609 = 7.8814 BTC [-] {2}

07:10:03 moiety: was not disappointed! lol wiki has a pic of the rabbit "swimming away from the President" ffs lol

07:16:45 BingoBoingo: Bunnies make the perfect sleeper agents

07:19:50 moiety: i thought it was hilarious when they accused the downing street cat of being a spy

07:20:11 moiety: it had been missing and turned up one day randomly where it shouldn't have been, so they got all suspicious of it lol

07:23:49 BingoBoingo: Well the sufficiently paranoid could assume a bug was sewn into the cat.

07:24:33 moiety: yep exactly what they thought

07:24:35 moiety: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/10/is-george-osbornes-cat-freya-chinese-spy_n_3415629.html

07:24:35 ozbot: Is George Osborne's Cat Freya A Chinese Spy?

07:24:39 moiety: she had been gone 3 years

07:25:07 moiety: poor cat

07:26:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.48095233 = 4.3286 BTC [-] {6}

07:28:46 mircea_popescu: all this derpage re @wesuck or whatever that thing's called reads to me a lot like "o hey we here at dead-fiat-ventures wish to make a last stand against this evil bitcoin empire"

07:29:12 mircea_popescu: "we still work! look! please! care!"

07:31:47 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The gawker rag Valleyway (the one with hedgec0k) has been running some lulzy bitcoin stuff you should probably have one of the girls archive.

07:32:12 mircea_popescu: nah, that's one of those venues which gets blacklisted in integrum.

07:32:26 mircea_popescu: makes little difference what anyone working for gawker actually said, having worked for it is enough.

07:33:29 mircea_popescu: maybe fleshbot being an exception or w/e.

07:34:07 BingoBoingo: I could see Deadspin surviving with Fleshbot.

07:34:48 mircea_popescu: fun fact : back in 2008 (ie, as the crisis hit) denton suspended their bonus package.

07:34:57 mircea_popescu: 133 people were sharing about 50k a month in bonuses

07:35:09 mircea_popescu: rationale being "nobody gives a shit about pageviews"

07:35:27 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 50000 / 133 / 650

07:35:27 gribble: 0.578368999422

07:35:44 mircea_popescu: half a bitcoin a month on average. how's that for a bonus.

07:36:14 BingoBoingo: A half a Bitcoin is pretty sweet. The equivalent in shitbucks not so much.

07:37:13 mircea_popescu: but hey, you know. cocksuckers making enough to pay for either their own coffee or their own sugar opine on matters.

07:38:26 greenspan_fan: I wonder if the opining actually shapes matters, like, at all?

07:38:43 greenspan_fan: because the self-perception of influence is part of the compensation

07:38:54 BingoBoingo: Eh, at least Gawker has some elements like Fleshbot that could survive. Huffington post and Buzzfeed though, lack even that.

07:39:27 greenspan_fan: I think you underestimate how easy a content aggregator is to run

07:39:51 greenspan_fan: if all your "employees" work for free, then everything else is profit

07:39:56 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan the self-perception of importance is pretty much the whole of the compensation.

07:40:08 mircea_popescu: the influence however, is exactly zero.

07:40:58 greenspan_fan: I worked at one point for a place that was getting into social media, but once you're out of that sort of giddy milieu it just doesn't seem like it's much of a priority

07:41:01 mircea_popescu: i mean sure, steal and distribute warez, get qt pissed off.

07:41:10 mircea_popescu: but in that sense piratebay eats their cookie.

07:41:13 BingoBoingo: I think we should replace this "content aggregating" with pankakke's brilliant term "assass"

07:41:25 greenspan_fan: ass as a service?

07:41:28 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

07:41:49 BingoBoingo: Of course.

07:42:27 greenspan_fan: amazing idea: netflix for prostitution

07:42:27 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

07:42:32 BingoBoingo: The original assass contains interesting things. The lesser assasses AOL it up.

07:42:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 18 @ 0.46286778 = 8.3316 BTC [-] {8}

07:43:41 greenspan_fan: I already have a tagline: the world's newest profession

07:44:05 greenspan_fan: is y combinator taking applications?

07:44:27 mircea_popescu: sure.

07:45:21 greenspan_fan: I think it would be worthwhile to apply w/ that idea, like a startup version of the sokal affair

07:45:26 BingoBoingo: greenspan_fan: To my knowledge they process applications in batches. Kind of like the Army except without the filtering to keep bona fide retards out of camp.

07:45:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.461 = 1.844 BTC [-]

07:46:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.461 = 3.688 BTC [-] {2}

07:49:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00086434 = 17.5893 BTC [-]

07:50:13 mircea_popescu: all you have to do is convincingly suck up.

07:50:28 mircea_popescu: go identify who the guys involved are, send girls to fuck each of them,

07:50:34 mircea_popescu: then get the girls together for the public pitch

07:50:36 mircea_popescu: you're in.

07:51:01 mircea_popescu: play the "womenz in tech" angle for maximum butthurt later on.

07:52:15 chetty: womenz in tech is an angle??

07:52:35 greenspan_fan: hopefully an acute one, HA HA HA HA HA

07:52:39 BingoBoingo: In the People

07:52:40 mircea_popescu: for these schmucks it's nothing but an angle.

07:52:48 BingoBoingo: 's Republic of California it is

07:54:21 greenspan_fan: is it really? or is that just something that everyone pretends to value because the alternative is constant broadsides from the SJ crowd?

07:55:11 chetty: does any real person care what the SJ crowd does/says?

07:55:32 greenspan_fan: maybe? I honestly can't tell

07:55:42 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan well, it's like in any socialist state : some people go along because they hope to get something from it,

07:55:46 mircea_popescu: most just nod it off.

07:56:27 mircea_popescu: there are entire career paths financed on the public dole which consist of nothing but pretending like the crap matters,

07:56:38 mircea_popescu: and so... you know, economic recovery. we've hired more people to do nothing, go us.

07:59:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.0008669 = 14.6073 BTC [+] {3}

08:03:33 BingoBoingo: Well, a lot of roads I have little occasion look much more impressive than they used to. Doesn't offer much utility though.

08:03:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.068 = 0.272 BTC [-]

08:04:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06700111 = 0.402 BTC [-] {3}

08:15:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.46100001 = 1.844 BTC [+]

08:19:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00086724 = 20.0766 BTC [+] {2}

08:22:33 greenspan_fan: any recommendations for bulk image viewers for OS X?

08:22:55 greenspan_fan: I have an absurd number of graphs in assorted subdirectories...

08:34:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.46100001 = 1.844 BTC [+] {2}

08:36:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.461 = 0.922 BTC [-]

08:38:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.46 = 6.9 BTC [-] {3}

08:43:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.451 BTC [-]

08:45:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4501 BTC [-]

08:55:36 cazalla: that gox bet is looking good now

08:56:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 244 @ 0.00479645 = 1.1703 BTC [-] {17}

08:57:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.45 = 6.75 BTC [-] {2}

09:04:36 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Which one? link plox

09:05:01 cazalla: http://bitbet.us/bet/281/btc-usd-at-mtgox-will-be-above-150-on/

09:06:40 BingoBoingo: cazalla: It actually looked better days ago when I pointed it out to KRS-One

09:06:57 cazalla: would've been a nice no 11 months ago

09:07:59 cazalla: guessing it'll still resolve as yes

09:08:52 BingoBoingo: Well, if Gox keeps their order matching shennanigans up

09:17:07 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/436429248740728832

09:17:08 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @Falkvinge @kLee1977 I'll bet ...

09:17:14 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i can't find people to take these easy bets with

09:17:21 BingoBoingo: Things like gox fucking with order matching though need to be considered in these bets. Anticipating SatoshiDice would probably not be listed on MPEx for the full length of 2013 make pushed me to put a whole BTC on S.BBet being worth more back in February.

09:18:08 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, you have been seasoned as a strategic consultant.

09:18:55 BingoBoingo: Thinking decades instead of hours.

09:20:02 BingoBoingo: Whatsapp is too Myspace to have value. WhatsApp embraces customers too poor for actual tools.

09:20:14 BingoBoingo: Kinda like Microsoft.

09:22:16 BingoBoingo: DE however, when fiat fails has a lot of copper and fiber.

09:22:34 B007: Microsoft? I don't think you know what you're talking about

09:22:58 BingoBoingo: B007: How little do consumers have to pay for WIndows?

09:23:28 B007: So? Microsoft sells to corporations

09:23:45 BingoBoingo: Generally Windows is bundled with a consumer machine and consumers accept that to not learn better things.

09:24:01 B007: true

09:24:32 BingoBoingo: The entire microsoft ecosystem from Basic in the 70's to nao is that doing better things is more expensive in terms of time to learn the right ways.

09:25:22 B007: but I don't think you can compare Microsoft to WhatsApp

09:25:23 BingoBoingo: Now that WIndows is so entrenched with lusers over decades, they have been able to force a sorporate ecosystem, because learning is bad Mkay.

09:25:42 BingoBoingo: B007: What is the problematic point?

09:26:55 BingoBoingo: This fake messaging network business whatsapp is in isn't too different from the fake software development tools business Microsoft started with

09:27:10 B007: Microsoft is vastly different from a messageing app

09:27:50 BingoBoingo: It wasn't at its inception. This is the old "Fake it until you make it" 30k millionaire shit.

09:28:16 B007: yeah

09:28:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06888867 = 0.1378 BTC [+] {2}

09:29:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06888829 = 0.3444 BTC [-] {2}

09:29:23 BingoBoingo: The thing is there just aren't opportunites to do this anymore really.

09:29:33 B007: sure there are

09:30:55 B007: you are in the wrong business son

09:31:53 BingoBoingo: Maybe, but I'm not in the wrong business that Facebook and Whatsapp are

09:32:04 B007: advertising?

09:32:39 BingoBoingo: B007: Deception. THey are in the deception business.

09:32:46 B007: hshs

09:36:59 BingoBoingo: http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/02/20/0312253/math-models-predicted-global-uprisings

09:37:01 ozbot: Math Models Predicted Global Uprisings - Slashdot

09:49:25 mircea_popescu: what was the lowest consumer license for windoze, like 50 bux ?

09:50:39 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: For OEMs I hink I've read it goes down to at least $25

09:50:51 mircea_popescu: nominally

09:50:57 mircea_popescu: prolly goes down to 25 by going up to 90

09:51:43 BingoBoingo: Well, MS's money comes largely from WIndows volume and selling Office and Visual studio.

09:52:59 BingoBoingo: MS's priority for WIndows has to be keeping the number of Windows installs up to keep selling Office and Visual Studios.

09:54:15 chetty: I really fail to understand why anyone would still be using windows

09:55:18 BingoBoingo: chetty: Inertia and aversion to learning I imagine.

09:55:47 mircea_popescu: "it just works"

09:55:52 mircea_popescu: no wait, that's the other one.

09:56:19 BingoBoingo: The other one hasn't just worked since version 7.5.1

09:57:32 BingoBoingo: Windows seems more to just be a fear of any other name. Call it pudding and they will ignore it is shit.

09:58:24 mircea_popescu: goatse.os

09:59:33 mircea_popescu: i have a new formula for computing the market value of bitcoin

09:59:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00086842 = 27.0079 BTC [+] {3}

09:59:51 mircea_popescu: number of articles published discussing bitcoin / number of sensible things said.

09:59:57 mircea_popescu: it works for all currencies pretty much.

10:00:21 mircea_popescu: when bitcoin gets close to about pi it's time to sell.

10:02:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 90 @ 0.00453677 = 0.4083 BTC [-] {8}

10:03:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 79 @ 0.00433875 = 0.3428 BTC [-] {7}

10:06:29 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So atm RSS beats herbi?

10:06:40 mircea_popescu: how's that ?

10:07:39 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It give you articles published on bitcoin. Reading gives you the sensible things. Then math.

10:07:57 mircea_popescu: i read very little and understand even less.

10:09:40 BingoBoingo: Isn't that what the girls are for?

10:11:13 mircea_popescu: i was talking to a friend earlier and i said "tis hard being a woman". she retorted "yeah, not only our brains don't work but tits and asses both droop with time too!"

10:11:32 mircea_popescu: it's hard all around my brothar. hard times.

10:13:29 MisterE: MS got teh Enterprise

10:13:36 MisterE: and thats what matters

10:13:39 mircea_popescu: actually it

10:13:47 BingoBoingo: MisterE: for some definitions of enterprise.

10:13:48 mircea_popescu: s been making huge gains on webhosting.

10:13:49 MisterE: when you're stacking Benjis

10:13:58 MisterE: ^

10:14:27 MisterE: hate to say it but Azure was good before the upgrade now I hear no complaints

10:14:46 MisterE: coz I root for the to fail heh

10:14:47 BingoBoingo: Is Microsoft actually making gains or are the finally moving Hotmail off of FreeBSD

10:15:29 mircea_popescu: seems a combination of really shitty hosting and people running servers on their home broadband

10:16:33 BingoBoingo: Well all of those spam sites need to point .info and .pw domains somewhere.

10:21:19 Namworld: https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140220-Announcement.pdf

10:21:24 Namworld: Exclusive news

10:21:37 Namworld: Before it's posted officially.

10:21:54 Namworld: They should change their pdf naming standard.

10:22:03 mircea_popescu: jajaja

10:22:06 mircea_popescu: well done

10:23:05 mircea_popescu: Namworld ty, i dumped it on twitter :D

10:24:25 Namworld: It's posted now it seems on gox.

10:24:52 Namworld: Well that was quick.

10:26:31 mircea_popescu: lol

10:28:30 wao-ender: :D

10:30:31 Namworld: This announcement is as stupid as the previous one. Who would have thought.

10:30:34 BingoBoingo: GoxBTC is headed to the CORE!!!

10:30:52 Namworld: Protesters were a security threat?

10:31:23 BingoBoingo: Namworld: They didn't want to let Mark hug out the scam accusations

10:32:03 mircea_popescu: such a roflmao thing

10:32:26 mircea_popescu: mtgox turns out to be about as good as bfl.

10:33:13 BingoBoingo: Well... Most people took 18 months to abandon BFL. Gox went, what... a whole 24 months before getting called out?

10:33:54 Namworld: Or worse

10:34:07 mircea_popescu: Bitcoin Foundation businesses! FTW!

10:34:12 Namworld: They aren't done yet proving themselves.

10:34:37 Namworld: They could become the best worst.

10:36:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.488 BTC [+]

10:36:28 mircea_popescu: this is true.

10:38:06 BingoBoingo: I'm still leaving the offer out there if Goldman or JPM wants to try outrunning YCombinator that I tucked in my footnotes

10:39:23 mircea_popescu: the problem you run into is this : they do not wish to actually matter in the world that is, they wish to instead live in a world they'd prefer.

10:39:39 mircea_popescu: that you can't do for them, nobody can, and so until they learn to submit you;re not going to have business there.

10:40:30 jurov: Sooo...infamous bitcoinbourse.eu is going to allow for trading of stocks...another lulzround begins?

10:41:16 jurov: But Markus is far less competent than ukyo/burnside...so prolly not.

10:42:24 mircea_popescu: there is a lot of competition in being the best worst.

10:43:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.10208 = 0.5104 BTC [+] {3}

10:43:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00086434 = 11.0636 BTC [-]

10:43:36 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I watched La Terra Trema. JP Morgan will have to find a wholesaler sometime.

10:43:54 mircea_popescu: hehe what did you thinkl ?

10:44:13 BingoBoingo: It ended how the Merchant of Venice should have.

10:44:41 mircea_popescu: hehe

10:45:20 BingoBoingo: Had to watch it twice since I understand spoken Spanish survivably but Italian not so much.

10:48:18 ThickAsThieves: i might win! <cazalla> http://bitbet.us/bet/281/btc-usd-at-mtgox-will-be-above-150-on/

10:48:39 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Which side you take, this could be thrilling

10:48:39 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker --market mtgox

10:48:40 gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 150.0, Best ask: 153.216, Bid-ask spread: 3.21600, Last trade: 150.0, 24 hour volume: 67216.83064744, 24 hour low: 134.09756, 24 hour high: 276.24152, 24 hour vwap: 201.18216

10:48:50 ThickAsThieves: i'm on No

10:49:10 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: You realize the bet it for that particular day and not before.

10:49:23 ThickAsThieves: i know

10:49:27 ThickAsThieves: but they are dead

10:50:20 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: They were on a ventilator 9 months. Most sane courts would have unplugged the vegetable.

10:51:05 ThickAsThieves: "In addition to the technical issue, this week we have experienced some

10:51:05 ThickAsThieves: security problems, and as a result we had to relocate MtGox to our previous office building

10:51:05 ThickAsThieves: in Shibuya (details can be found here https://support.mtgox.com/home). The move,

10:51:05 ThickAsThieves: combined with some other security and technical challenges, pushed back our progress."

10:51:07 ThickAsThieves: lol!

10:51:24 ThickAsThieves: "As much as we didn’t want to only provide an “update on an update”, this is the current

10:51:24 ThickAsThieves: status. We are committed to solving this issue and will provide more information as soon

10:51:24 ThickAsThieves: as possible to keep everyone in the loop."

10:51:24 ThickAsThieves: "

10:51:24 ThickAsThieves: We are very sorry for the delays and deeply appreciate your kind understanding and

10:51:25 ThickAsThieves: continuous support."

10:51:29 ThickAsThieves: yay!

10:51:54 ThickAsThieves: sorry i'm delirious from randomly waking up too early cuz i had feeling itd be crashing

10:52:30 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I'm only one timezone over and haven't slept yet.

10:52:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 80 @ 0.00465587 = 0.3725 BTC [-] {6}

10:53:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.48809999 = 1.9524 BTC [+] {2}

10:54:17 ThickAsThieves: time for bitbets on mark's freedom

10:55:17 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it must have subtitles neh ?

10:55:38 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Subtitles would have blocked too much misery from my eyes.

10:55:45 mircea_popescu: this is true

10:55:51 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

10:55:53 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 597.0, Best ask: 599.58, Bid-ask spread: 2.58000, Last trade: 600.0, 24 hour volume: 22132.64616219, 24 hour low: 590.0, 24 hour high: 636.0, 24 hour vwap: 615.145591973

10:55:53 mircea_popescu: you know visconti had amateurs shoot the whole thing ?

10:55:59 mircea_popescu: those people actually lived in those houses,

10:56:07 mircea_popescu: if not exactly under the medieval conditions described.

10:56:13 ThickAsThieves: omg how do i get cash into gox someone should arb that /s

10:56:23 BingoBoingo: Yeah. Between viewings one and two I did the paper reading.

10:56:24 mircea_popescu: but when the girl is barefoot on the dirt floor, that's her own dirt floor she's barefood on.

10:56:45 BingoBoingo: barefood sounds much sexier than that scene.

10:57:24 mircea_popescu: meanwhile check out gabridome https://twitter.com/Gabridome/status/436454038251769856

10:58:20 BingoBoingo: Fuck, I dunno who that is.

10:58:26 davout: jurov: didn't he allow that earlier already?

11:00:21 BingoBoingo: davout: You still interested in that chess tournament?

11:00:34 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/1641614/

11:00:39 mircea_popescu: that's back in 2013.

11:01:03 mircea_popescu: epic ;;ticker results.

11:01:26 BingoBoingo: That is nearly when I made my first appearance.

11:01:55 cazalla: ThickAsThieves: you may!

11:02:06 davout: BingoBoingo: are you guys done with the first one ?

11:02:37 ThickAsThieves: hehe #mtgox is muted

11:03:02 BingoBoingo: davout: We were coming to an inevitable tiebreaker problem so we added Apocalyptic an six player could help reduce ties still further.

11:03:55 BingoBoingo: Caveat is the kicker I supposed for this months long tournament is expiring on the 28th, because obligations can not be kept open forever.

11:03:55 davout: BingoBoingo: ok, with pleasure! I can't play right now tho

11:04:05 BingoBoingo: davout: Neither can I.

11:04:08 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bf1PkUeCAAAVhe3.png

11:04:20 mircea_popescu: on the left vs the right, the effects of the deterioration of public schooling.

11:04:31 mircea_popescu: fucktards don't even know what words mean these days.

11:04:52 jurov: davout: previously only bourse shares were sold, not even trading them was possible.

11:05:03 mircea_popescu: accepting credit cards is a skill. exponential, logarithmic, this year alone or whatever else. it's all a soup.

11:05:28 mircea_popescu: fucking embarrassment these kids.

11:05:53 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: We covered dictionaries in primary school that I remember.

11:06:20 mircea_popescu: i'm sure they covered "issues" in primary school.

11:06:51 BingoBoingo: Sure. We covered tornadoes, fire, and earthquakes in that order

11:06:59 mircea_popescu: "WhatsApp founder Jan Koum signs deal with FB at social services office where he used to get food stamps. "

11:07:01 mircea_popescu: can this be more doge ?

11:07:15 BingoBoingo: No, this is total Doge.

11:07:36 mircea_popescu: "Facebook is now buying out anything that 14 year olds might use for billions of dollars. Good thing they're using stock and not real money."

11:07:40 BingoBoingo: A great troll campaign would be Corgis against Doge.

11:07:44 mircea_popescu: at least i got some sane people in my feed.

11:08:14 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thing is only 3 billion in that acquisition was stock

11:08:38 mircea_popescu: i didn't actually dig into it.

11:08:51 ThickAsThieves: who is john galt?

11:09:26 mircea_popescu: fictional character.

11:09:34 mircea_popescu: hm, pussy riot is actually a punk band ?!

11:09:43 mircea_popescu: in what fucking sense ? i thought they were pop.

11:09:46 BingoBoingo: Always just been a punk band.

11:09:59 BingoBoingo: Russia is still catching up to the 70's

11:10:06 ThickAsThieves: and a harem of active-ists

11:10:32 BingoBoingo: Next thing you will tell me Russian discos are closing in favor of night clubs

11:10:43 mircea_popescu: how the fuck is it punk

11:10:47 BingoBoingo: And then they've reached the 80's

11:11:03 davout: BingoBoingo: wasn't it the opposite, only 3bn in cash?

11:11:03 mircea_popescu: meanwhile,

11:11:04 mircea_popescu: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird-news/viking-apocalypse-end-of-the-world-predicted-to-happen-on-saturday-but-dont-cancel-your-weekend-plans-yet-9138092.html?origin=internalSearch

11:11:04 ozbot: Viking apocalypse: End of the world predicted to happen on Saturday (but don't cancel your weekend

11:11:06 ThickAsThieves: it's punk cuz they can only make music with their thumbs

11:11:07 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Horses and beedles.

11:11:12 BingoBoingo: *needles

11:12:09 mircea_popescu: Virgin Mary, Mother of God, put Putin away Рut Putin away, put Putin away

11:12:09 mircea_popescu: Black robe, golden epaulettes All parishioners crawl to bow The phantom of liberty is in heaven Gay-pride sent to Siberia in chains

11:12:09 mircea_popescu:

11:12:09 mircea_popescu: The head of the KGB, their chief saint, Leads protesters to prison under escort In order not to offend His Holiness Women must give birth and love

11:12:14 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo does this sound like punk to you ?

11:12:15 BingoBoingo: davout: I might have to read again, because vodka. Shame you can't play chess nao.

11:12:20 ThickAsThieves: http://imgur.com/5hdErlO

11:12:20 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

11:12:40 mircea_popescu: Virgin Mary, Mother of God, become a feminist

11:12:40 mircea_popescu: Become a feminist, become a feminist

11:12:51 mircea_popescu: this is not punk lol. this is lib-pop.

11:12:52 davout: BingoBoingo: i'm pondering whether i should play myself or let my little brother play against you

11:12:59 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sounds more metal.

11:13:11 mircea_popescu: metal. women. what ?

11:13:12 BingoBoingo: davout: Honestly it is prolly more about timing

11:13:27 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nothing is more metal than a miscarriage stage show.

11:13:30 davout: BingoBoingo: no, my lil bro would probably beat me to a pulp

11:13:48 davout: BingoBoingo: what timezone are you in?

11:13:57 davout: US West?

11:14:03 mircea_popescu: get out, pussy is not metal.

11:14:05 BingoBoingo: davout: If we go on those criteria I could prolly hire a jew, but I am GMT -6

11:14:05 davout: east i meant

11:14:28 BingoBoingo: Equivalent of US central

11:15:50 BingoBoingo: davout: I have to warn you though that I have lost to Namworld (though truffles beat Namworld)

11:16:20 davout: what do you use to keep track of the board's state ?

11:16:31 BingoBoingo: davout: Algrbraic notation.

11:16:39 BingoBoingo: Post moves in channel

11:16:42 davout: to keep track of, not to communicate

11:16:58 davout: as in, i don't have an actual board at hand to do this

11:16:59 BingoBoingo: Oh, I set up a board on the floor next to my desk

11:17:02 davout: haha

11:17:04 davout: ok

11:17:09 BingoBoingo: Other people use web tools

11:17:18 davout: we're getting there

11:17:35 jurov: davout: have you seen my question why b-c isn't listed anywhere?

11:17:48 davout: jurov: no

11:18:11 davout: where is it?

11:18:26 mircea_popescu: The $19 billion deal -- $12 billion in stock, $4 billion in cash and $3 billion in restricted shares

11:18:27 jurov: Ok :) so am asking now, why it't not on btccharts nor bitcoinity?

11:18:31 mircea_popescu: so there we go.

11:18:59 davout: jurov: because i haven't put in the time yet to re-enable their API

11:19:15 davout: i tried to push the job on pankkake

11:20:26 jurov: Well. And maintaining x.eur asks are pushed on whom?

11:20:44 jurov: Delisting imminent :D

11:20:55 davout: lolwut

11:21:12 jurov: Atm all asks are mine.

11:21:27 mircea_popescu: davout fb buying snapchat.

11:21:39 mircea_popescu: oops i mean webchat

11:21:45 mircea_popescu: uh.

11:21:47 mircea_popescu: something.

11:21:48 davout: jurov: lemme have a look

11:22:07 BingoBoingo: Eh, ATC should have stayed Openex only https://x-bt.com/markets/atcbtc is so dead

11:22:22 BingoBoingo: Nearly all orders are mine.

11:22:39 jurov: davout don't sweat it, i'm in teasing mood

11:22:41 ThickAsThieves: it never left

11:22:45 ThickAsThieves: trade both

11:22:49 ThickAsThieves: if you dare

11:22:55 davout: jurov: yo. i still want to know what's up

11:22:56 mircea_popescu: needs better advertising

11:23:06 davout: prolly outta BTC

11:23:34 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Maybe I am doing both. x-bt killed Openex volume and orders

11:23:35 ThickAsThieves: <Matt38> Hope we got something new on monday atleast.

11:23:42 ThickAsThieves: poor goxer

11:24:40 davout: jurov: oic, my bot's algo is not very evolved yet, and won't place orders if it results in executions

11:24:51 davout: jurov: i'll widen my spread

11:25:15 davout: i don't have time to work on it right now, but that's something i'll have to fix

11:25:51 mircea_popescu: davout that seems exactly countrary to marketmaking.

11:26:12 ThickAsThieves: marketcockteasing

11:26:14 davout: mircea_popescu: isn't that more arbitrage?

11:26:38 mircea_popescu: well no, marketmaker means exactly you blow out the book on a regular basis if it doesn't conform.

11:26:48 davout: the basic reason to this iirc is that executions that are immediate don't appear in stats

11:26:59 mircea_popescu: not placing orders thatd result in executions is exactly anti-mm behaviour

11:27:15 mircea_popescu: basically the book is ruling you.

11:27:16 mircea_popescu: you're supposed to rule the book

11:28:26 davout: not arguing that, i need some more work to work around the mpex api weirdnesses

11:29:36 davout: also, given the current market conditions i'm pretty ok with widening the spread anyway

11:30:15 davout: or i guess, instead of tracking order by order i can track aggregates

11:30:51 davout: ok imma lunch :-D

11:32:24 mircea_popescu: what weirdness is that!11

11:35:11 ThickAsThieves: "Congress could remove federal funding from academic institutions that decide to boycott Israel."

11:35:16 ThickAsThieves: alrighty

11:42:21 mircea_popescu: "Facebook's purchase price values each Whatsapp user at $40. Whatsapp users pay zero dollars and are not shown ads."

11:42:23 mircea_popescu: ook.

11:43:34 punkman1: they pay $0.99 per year, after the first year

11:43:46 mircea_popescu: i wonder how many actually are a year old.

11:44:28 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Most whatsapp users I know are South Asian, so few I imagine

11:47:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.06700633 = 1.1391 BTC [-] {5}

11:47:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.46000002 = 0.92 BTC [-] {2}

11:48:00 mircea_popescu: from what i see here most of their userbase is eu. they got little azn if anything.

11:49:18 BingoBoingo: I thought a quarter of their userbase was split between India, Indonesia, and the Phillipines.

11:49:26 BingoBoingo: Also, lulz https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471533.msg5231394#msg5231394

11:59:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54947 @ 0.00086128 = 47.3248 BTC [-]

12:03:56 BingoBoingo: So... Ukraine and Thailand are getting still worse. Will any camwhores live through next week?

12:04:59 BingoBoingo: Also I am very disappointed in Micon for letting himself drop far enough to address this. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471610.0

12:07:00 ThickAsThieves: "Chevron offers free pizza to make up for deadly fracking explosion"

12:08:27 random_cat: pizza include 10^8 year old anchovies

12:08:57 ThickAsThieves: in "oil"

12:09:39 BingoBoingo: Oh I finally found an episode of Bar Rescue with a Lie, because I am 'Murica's premier expert on Karaoke http://www.spike.com/episodes/bccp83/bar-rescue-karaoke-katastrophe-season-3-ep-308

12:13:02 ThickAsThieves: latest version http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1579346/000119312514058712/d562329ds1a.htm

12:14:54 BingoBoingo: I'm just kinda shocked by how little Micon moves me nao.

12:16:19 BingoBoingo: Last year I was accepting of the March madness pool that was just me and him.

12:17:09 BingoBoingo: This year though going to Seals with Clubs and getting bot robbed and facing a ponzi, it is hard to back an accusation because Micon does to.

12:19:14 ThickAsThieves: was that ever a reason to?

12:23:04 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you got botproof ?

12:23:11 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Micon used to be quite the scam early warning system/

12:23:11 mircea_popescu: or more like bothunch

12:23:22 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: bothunch

12:23:35 mircea_popescu: bothunch and the naked bot lunch

12:24:15 BingoBoingo: The bothunch is supported by the wasteland that used to be rich cash games on seals.

12:24:17 davout: mircea_popescu: iirc the stat doesn't tell you about executions for orders that never hit the book

12:24:45 BingoBoingo: It has only been 9 months since I've been ther.

12:24:53 mircea_popescu: davout you know how the tracking thing works ?

12:25:04 davout: mircea_popescu: yeah you linked that previously to me

12:25:07 Bugpowder: Giddyup

12:25:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.00083746 = 0.8375 BTC [+] {4}

12:25:26 davout: i just need to go from understanding how it works to implementing it

12:25:30 Bugpowder: Anyone selling goxbux??? I hear they are having a 75% off sale

12:26:04 davout: i didn't say it wasn't possible, i said it was handled in a way that qualifies as "a little weird" in my system

12:26:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1000 @ 0.00043542 = 0.4354 BTC [+] {10}

12:26:15 mircea_popescu: davout i can see that yeah

12:26:18 mircea_popescu: jus' checking.

12:26:38 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder maybe lnovy ?

12:26:48 davout: mircea_popescu: so to sum it all up you get a track ID from the synchronous response message

12:27:00 BingoBoingo: Wait, is lnovy Dashe's IRC handle?

12:27:05 davout: so if it isn't in your next stat you conclude it executed

12:27:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00019798 = 0.198 BTC [+] {2}

12:27:28 BingoBoingo: davout: That or niggers.config

12:27:35 davout: BingoBoingo: lolwut

12:27:35 KRS-One: haha

12:27:54 mircea_popescu: davout no. you get a track id in all executed orders. if it matches the hash of an order of yours then that hit the book and disappeared. if it doesn't then your order was on the book and got hit by someone else.

12:27:55 KRS-One: There have been times irl I wish I had that config file.

12:28:08 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo whose ?

12:28:34 BingoBoingo: lno *-* WTF is that Dash?

12:29:12 BingoBoingo: Micon though lacks the trust I offered him a year ago.

12:29:14 mircea_popescu: i have no idea what you are sayin

12:29:45 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Anil Dash. I'm trying to imagine his IRC nicks

12:29:52 davout: mircea_popescu: imma look into that

12:30:12 davout: BingoBoingo: you're drunk aren't you

12:30:27 BingoBoingo: davout: Credibly though.

12:30:35 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg6smPtIYAAgYP8.png:large

12:30:56 davout: i can see drunk people. when i'm not high.

12:31:01 mircea_popescu: lol

12:31:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 60 @ 0.0055 = 0.33 BTC

12:31:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00044503 = 0.2225 BTC [+] {6}

12:31:50 BingoBoingo: Fuck that map. Drunk chicago is a negative. Shit should be carried to Ohio and dumped in the shit river.

12:32:16 ThickAsThieves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuZudZFmRgw&list=UUAAgMYqyzm_kT2tgI3HPE2A&feature=c4-overview Mark's cat is named Tibane, like the gox co

12:32:17 ozbot: Tibane's new house (first attempt) - YouTube

12:32:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.0008518 = 0.8518 BTC [+] {4}

12:32:33 Bugpowder: http://www.datafox.co/blog/googles-buying-all-the-robots/

12:32:34 ozbot: Google’s Buying All the Robots… | DataFox

12:32:45 Bugpowder: THat's a lot of acquisitions

12:34:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00019981 = 0.3996 BTC [+] {6}

12:34:28 mircea_popescu: google has probably the world's best buyouts department.

12:34:48 mircea_popescu: like, historically.

12:34:51 BingoBoingo: Prolly

12:35:12 BingoBoingo: Not mere historically though.

12:35:38 ThickAsThieves: they are building ed-209 i guess

12:35:38 BingoBoingo: Like. DOD regulations are the only pseudo obstacle kind of success.

12:36:00 Bugpowder: This is all it took for MtGox to fold. http://www.mtgoxprotest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/P1030097.jpg

12:36:03 davout: omfg, karpeles makes an apple pie on a porn movie sound track

12:36:04 davout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ3g6IwrZZg&list=UUAAgMYqyzm_kT2tgI3HPE2A

12:36:07 Bugpowder: Compare to Kiev

12:36:18 KRS-One: haha never saw that one

12:36:29 Bugpowder: Mark's sword was less powerful than expected

12:36:32 davout: the music

12:36:48 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder you got your timeline mixed up there.

12:36:48 KRS-One: is he czech?

12:37:08 mircea_popescu: why do people keep doing this re mtgox, event x at t, event y at t+k, o look, y is all it took for x.

12:37:20 KRS-One: french

12:38:10 Bugpowder: That was a happier time for Tux... The pie had not been eaten

12:38:32 davout: i kinda feel sorry for him

12:39:25 mircea_popescu: sure, fat stupid guy caught in a position that wasn';t for him. it's understandable.

12:39:31 KRS-One: for being one of those nerdy fat kids who wears black all the time, thinks he is a genius and believes he is better than everyone else?

12:39:46 mircea_popescu: we had this mildly retarded chick in highschool, her parents kept pushing her to "achieve".

12:39:54 Bugpowder: It does seem that he knows how to bake a nice pie

12:39:55 mircea_popescu: she spent about 16 hours doing homework each day.

12:40:09 davout: Bugpowder: he's french how would he not

12:40:14 mircea_popescu: eventually ended up an assitant uni teacher. generations of freshmen mocked her bitterly.

12:40:42 KRS-One: a misguided soul

12:40:43 mircea_popescu: never got married, never progressed past assistant position, just...

12:40:49 mircea_popescu: just suffered, basically.

12:40:53 mircea_popescu: sad fate.

12:40:53 BingoBoingo: I had fun fucking mildly retarded (in my estimation) girl who was the a star forward on the HS soccer team.

12:40:57 davout: sad

12:41:19 KRS-One: BingoBoingo: retard fucker

12:41:19 mircea_popescu: coulda been a grocery clerk or a florist or a shoe store saleswoman and been just fine.

12:41:22 mircea_popescu: but no, "gotta achieve".

12:41:26 BingoBoingo: She could suck a dick great

12:41:35 mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone ever offered.

12:41:36 KRS-One: BingoBoingo: oh..well then.

12:41:37 BingoBoingo: KRS-One: Prolly just stupid

12:41:52 BingoBoingo: Could suck a great dick though

12:41:53 mircea_popescu: but one time she was walking backwards and ran into a pole

12:41:58 mircea_popescu: so she turned around and apologized

12:42:02 davout: mircea_popescu: florist sounds good!

12:42:03 KRS-One: BingoBoingo: that matters more.

12:42:03 mircea_popescu: which was the lol for a month.

12:42:17 KRS-One: omg mircea_popescu LOL

12:42:24 mircea_popescu: i think your average guy would rather have been caught in bed with a small boy than with her.

12:42:49 KRS-One: hahahhaa omg you got me laughing

12:43:03 KRS-One: i need..

12:43:05 KRS-One: .bait

12:43:05 mircea_popescu: KRS-One stop laughing at tards, have you no conscience ?

12:43:06 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9w8cjXFkk1qzn3jqo1_1280.jpg

12:43:13 KRS-One: nope

12:43:22 mircea_popescu: a well.

12:43:34 KRS-One: nah i do have a conscience..its just okay to laugh at life.

12:45:44 mircea_popescu: "Google may have missed skipped social, but they?re bringing together a lot of highly talented teams that are working on:"

12:45:55 mircea_popescu: strategically sound decision.

12:45:55 mircea_popescu: social is worth just about squat.

12:46:32 ThickAsThieves: except they didnt skip social at all

12:46:37 ThickAsThieves: they just failed quickly

12:46:38 BingoBoingo: I still can't believe how disappointing a wee bit of education made Micon

12:46:43 ThickAsThieves: which is just as well

12:46:46 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves failed quickly, moved on, w/e.

12:47:15 ThickAsThieves: at least they didnt buy twitter or whatever

12:47:25 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I dare you to browse Seals ring games

12:47:32 BingoBoingo: So dead.

12:47:58 ThickAsThieves: all energy emitted from Seals and its people has indicated for me to stay away since first contact

12:48:08 mircea_popescu: that bad eh ?

12:48:27 BingoBoingo: They (Micon) rightly called BFL out as a scam

12:48:36 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Deader than you imagine

12:48:57 mircea_popescu: is poker dead generally or they just stoopid ?

12:49:14 ThickAsThieves: any property worth scooping up in the ashes?

12:49:33 BingoBoingo: Poker is definitely injured

12:50:05 BingoBoingo: The thing I lost to last night could not have been a human player though.

12:50:15 ThickAsThieves: "Google reportedly offered $10 billion for WhatsApp"

12:50:19 ThickAsThieves: bahwell

12:50:24 mircea_popescu: reportedly by whom ?

12:50:33 ThickAsThieves: Furtune

12:50:41 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: By liver sense

12:50:55 ThickAsThieves: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/02/20/google-whatsapp-10-billion/

12:50:56 ozbot: Google offered to buy WhatsApp for $10 billion - Fortune Tech

12:51:16 BingoBoingo: 11 Months ago I was the only person willing to bet 1 BTC agaisnt Micon on NCAA tournament brackets

12:51:34 BingoBoingo: That was a stupid decision/

12:51:42 ThickAsThieves: "Two separate sources have told me that's how much Google (GOOG) offered to purchase WhatsApp. The bid did not come with promise of a board seat, unlike the Facebook agreement."

12:51:51 ThickAsThieves: his mom and his cat

12:52:14 ThickAsThieves: her*

12:52:28 ThickAsThieves: "Jessi Hempel is a New York-based technology writer for Fortune. She has written extensively about digital media, online advertising and social networking. "

12:52:35 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves right, two sources have told nobody in particular that things diversely may have been etc.

12:53:20 BingoBoingo: Maybe this is crazy, but a Google board seat is worth more than Facebook board seats

12:53:59 Bugpowder: This guy seems to have a better idea for what is going on with WhatsApp. http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2014/1/30/interaction-canvases-and-ecosystems

12:54:07 ThickAsThieves: as in it's more costly for Google to have one more idiot in the ranks than not

12:54:17 mircea_popescu: lol

12:54:42 mircea_popescu: hey guise, have you heard about jpm rebranding ?

12:54:52 ThickAsThieves: only that you mentioned it

12:55:00 mircea_popescu: they're gonna be PopCorn

12:55:10 mircea_popescu: "just turn the heat on and they jump"

12:55:28 ThickAsThieves: "An airy delight!"

12:55:36 mircea_popescu: "I can't believe it's not CDOs"

12:55:42 nicknode: lol

12:56:07 ThickAsThieves: "Buttered up and consumed!"

12:56:14 mircea_popescu: "Once you swap, you can't stop"

12:56:36 BingoBoingo: JPM has exactly one way to rebrand http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/23/a-wow-comment-analysis-fest/#fn4-586

12:56:37 ThickAsThieves: "See if you catch one in the mouth!"

12:56:50 nicknode: any news out of asicminer?

12:56:51 mircea_popescu: da fuck is fn4-586

12:57:03 mircea_popescu: nicknode yeah they were bought out by facebook

12:57:03 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: A footnote.

12:57:05 mircea_popescu: 19bn.

12:57:09 mircea_popescu: a cool.

12:57:23 nicknode: nice, well then this was a good morning then lol

12:57:24 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The footnote I point at fiat olds and BTC newbs

12:58:22 mircea_popescu: aha

13:00:20 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Even Pirates had their black flags which were the sign they were willing to offer quarter.

13:00:43 BingoBoingo: I have no use for the red flag and denial of quarter from reality.

13:02:52 mircea_popescu: fun fact : a roger was shakespeare era term for beggars with pretense of learning.

13:02:58 mircea_popescu: sort-of like forumites, basically.

13:03:51 ThickAsThieves: wife: "Facebook bought WhatsApp for $19b? Suckers, they could've downloaded it for free."

13:03:56 BingoBoingo: A true Ver. There is a population in the US that has an 18 to 36 month window to hedge their existence.

13:08:14 davout: ThickAsThieves: lol

13:08:31 BingoBoingo: Also, "Roger" was a shakespeare era term necessitated by the mere decades of seamanship the english would have to pass the dutch by at that time.

13:08:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves maybe they planned to use it for more than a year.

13:09:35 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Facebook wanted the people who couldn't afford facebook

13:10:39 ThickAsThieves: prediction: facebook starts buying dating sites

13:12:08 mircea_popescu: nah

13:12:15 ThickAsThieves: ancestry.com then?

13:12:17 BingoBoingo: I though t facebooks revenues came from people not getting laid

13:12:23 mircea_popescu: wasn't matt's gf all ranty against dating sites ?

13:12:24 ThickAsThieves: why these make too much sense?

13:12:31 mircea_popescu: "o snapchat allows teens to fuck all day long i don't care" ?

13:12:39 nicknode: not that much value in not getting laid

13:13:00 ThickAsThieves: who's matt anyway?

13:13:04 ThickAsThieves: mark?

13:13:06 mircea_popescu: nicknode in general the average male would prefer to not get laid and be bossed around than to get laid and have to boss the women around.

13:13:23 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves whoever hoodie-whats-his-face. zuckerberg

13:13:31 ThickAsThieves: word

13:14:16 ThickAsThieves: bigtime silicon valley ceo's have very small wardrobes

13:14:47 davout: ThickAsThieves: yay, i can be a big time silicon valley ceo

13:15:00 ThickAsThieves: you may choose black turtleneck, tshirt, hoodie, sneakers or 3-piece suit less tie and top button

13:15:00 mircea_popescu: no because nigeria

13:15:14 davout: mircea_popescu: lol fuck you

13:15:25 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves if i were the [ex] yahoo ceo i'd show up for work in a black and white apron

13:15:42 ThickAsThieves: cuz ur colorblind?

13:15:55 BingoBoingo: I am still wrapping my head around Seals was full last year, but it was still just me versus Micon in March Madness

13:15:58 davout: no cause his place is dirty

13:16:09 mircea_popescu: CAUSE I WOULD BE A WOMAN

13:16:14 ThickAsThieves: you mean that blonde chick?

13:16:18 ThickAsThieves: she got fired?

13:16:23 mircea_popescu: well im covering my bets.

13:16:33 mircea_popescu: maybe she was meanwhile who;s to know

13:16:36 ThickAsThieves: the world conspires with you

13:17:17 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Hitting mircea for his general ly compromised sight would be like criticizing me for my hearing.

13:17:23 mircea_popescu: someone should make a line of business go-go suits and shear body stockings for women in the boardroom

13:17:40 ThickAsThieves: i dunno, being colorblind cant be that bad

13:18:07 BingoBoingo: I dunno how it can't be. I mean in the pussy you get to see the actual pink.

13:18:12 ThickAsThieves: i have constant tinnitus and i'm ok

13:18:27 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude, my sight is fine. i can shoot sparrows half mile away. it's just i don't see most useless colors.

13:19:33 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You let the color blind thing out a while ago but the half inch text very recently. We needed to force the answer.

13:19:54 mircea_popescu: the text thing is for confort tho.

13:20:01 ThickAsThieves: i assume half-inch is an exaggeration

13:20:28 davout: that's what she said

13:20:32 *: ThickAsThieves waits for a "that's what she said"...

13:20:37 ThickAsThieves: dangit!

13:20:39 davout: lmao

13:20:43 mircea_popescu: i can read most stuff people need loupes for with my naked eyes, but that doesn't mean i want to

13:20:48 mircea_popescu: on any sort of continued basis

13:21:42 BingoBoingo: Understandable mircea_popescu. I can barely stand test less dense than 8 pts offers on a screen (unless it is a spectaculary fail screen).

13:23:13 MisterE: when are we gonna test 500 already?!?!

13:23:28 MisterE: been waiting for days

13:23:37 BingoBoingo: MisterE: August?

13:23:40 ThickAsThieves: i'll tell you for 5btc

13:23:46 MisterE: this stability pisses me off

13:23:50 mircea_popescu: why ?!

13:24:01 MisterE: lol I like the swings

13:24:05 ThickAsThieves: cuz gemz

13:24:13 BingoBoingo: MisterE: I can sell you instability for the right price.

13:24:14 MisterE: like craps I guess you try to catch the streaks

13:24:19 MisterE: play a conservative game

13:24:29 MisterE: only pass/ don;t pass bets

13:24:43 BingoBoingo: MisterE: Conservative Game? Are you Rumsfeld in Fallujah?

13:25:11 MisterE: the place the taliban just took back?

13:25:25 MisterE: well not just

13:25:26 BingoBoingo: MisterE: Wrong brown people.

13:26:11 ThickAsThieves: MisterE, $500 will be tested in approx 7 days

13:26:34 BingoBoingo: Oh, I though this was MPEX 0.1 lots

13:27:01 BingoBoingo: $500/BTC has been whipped for quite a while

13:27:20 ThickAsThieves: whipped?

13:27:35 nicknode: ThickAsThieves: what is the relationship between you and havelock? i was under the impression you were more or less the same entity, but apparently not? trying to understand the TaT,havelock,asicminer thinigie posted about in the last day

13:27:43 MisterE: naah 500 is only a NY regulator's announcement away

13:27:48 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Yeah, like an antiquated piece of farm equiptment that can't even imagine challenging a tractor.

13:27:49 MisterE: wtf is up with Cox anywyas?

13:28:03 MisterE: Iwas away for a couple days

13:28:25 BingoBoingo: nicknode: ThickAsThieves is someone Havelock was fucking.

13:28:35 BingoBoingo: Nao ThickAsThieves has a spine

13:28:46 BingoBoingo: And he dun like to get fucked

13:29:03 ThickAsThieves: lol

13:29:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19612 @ 0.00086128 = 16.8914 BTC [-]

13:29:33 ThickAsThieves: that doesnt even work in the abstract

13:29:53 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Some things work better in the real than the abstract.

13:29:53 ThickAsThieves: nicknode, why would you think we're all the same thing?

13:30:09 mircea_popescu: <nicknode> ThickAsThieves: what is the relationship between you and havelock? i was under the impression you were more or less the same entity, but apparently not? <<< see ? this is what you did. now pay for it.

13:30:13 nicknode: tarded lack of research, first impressions blah blag

13:30:23 ThickAsThieves: so research

13:30:34 nicknode: anyway, i kind of thought you were the guy operating havelock. apparently not. but what does the latest news mean?

13:30:52 ThickAsThieves: there's the plain above you, there's the parachute below you

13:31:01 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Be afraid. This is moar research than most of your PT investors do.

13:31:14 ThickAsThieves: plane*

13:31:15 ThickAsThieves: derp

13:31:19 KRS-One: nicknode: you thought TaT was Havelock? wow

13:31:25 ThickAsThieves: that's a first

13:31:34 mircea_popescu: not afaik, no.

13:31:44 nicknode: well yeah. anyway, care to enlighten me as to the latest developments?

13:31:50 ThickAsThieves: still not as bad as emails i get asking me how to buy AM100

13:32:06 ThickAsThieves: what more is needed to know than what was announced?

13:32:33 mircea_popescu: "First they came for the lawyers, and I didn't say anything because I am not a lawyer. Now everything is awesome."

13:32:53 nicknode: well since my confusion runs pretty thick with regards to the involved entities, i dont get what it means

13:33:32 ThickAsThieves: man you need to articulate

13:33:36 ThickAsThieves: i know you can do it

13:33:57 nicknode: you make a great impression

13:34:04 ThickAsThieves: it means Havelock is running the listed things I will used to have run

13:34:28 nicknode: ahh, confusion clearing slightly

13:34:39 BingoBoingo: Remember when Havelock ran only an S.DICE passthrough

13:34:47 ThickAsThieves: did you read all the words in the announcement?

13:35:15 BingoBoingo: Those days were the best lols

13:35:49 ThickAsThieves: mp, what's that lawyer quote from/for?

13:36:16 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Oh, it is just standard hebe talk

13:36:34 nicknode: it makes more sense now that I'm disabused for some preconceived notions yes. thank you :)

13:36:38 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves some twitter guy. you care who ?

13:36:49 ThickAsThieves: i found it, i just cant suss the context

13:36:52 ThickAsThieves: or meaning...

13:37:06 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah, i remember. those were the days when investors didn't lose btc weekly.

13:37:49 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well it was that shot period between GLBSE's death and the emergence of the lessers.

13:38:00 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you know the "first they came for the tits, but i said nothing because i wasn't a tit, then they came for the cunt, but i said nothing for i wasn;'t a cunt, now i got nowhere to jack off" thing ?

13:38:35 ThickAsThieves: nope

13:38:49 mircea_popescu: jesus.

13:38:52 BingoBoingo: I remember the days when havelock was just TAT on steroids

13:38:56 mircea_popescu: what sort of a jew are you.

13:38:59 ThickAsThieves: dont call me that it's embarassing

13:39:10 ThickAsThieves: a catholic one

13:39:13 mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

13:39:13 ozbot: First they came ... - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

13:39:37 BingoBoingo: Sweet, funnel cloud!!! How long will I have internet!!!

13:40:03 ThickAsThieves: i wish i was raised jewish, christ

13:40:39 mircea_popescu: sooo.... facebook being cut to ew and neutral across the board.

13:40:53 BingoBoingo: I love tornado weather

13:41:20 MisterE: where do I get the btc-e api key and secret?

13:41:21 random_cat: it's better served cold, bingoboingo

13:41:33 MisterE: oic profile

13:41:59 ThickAsThieves: shoulda bought okcupid

13:42:57 ThickAsThieves: hey i like this first they came thing and now i get it, thx

13:43:08 BingoBoingo: random_cat: Fuku, Imma be wearing this welt for a week nao.

13:44:06 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i'm shocked you never heard it before. it's really a meme.

13:44:29 BingoBoingo: Like a really old meme

13:45:25 BingoBoingo: Like I am trying to figure out if this is merely impact swelling or floating detached bone

13:46:32 ThickAsThieves: imagine what else i don't know

13:46:34 ThickAsThieves: :)

13:47:57 BingoBoingo: For serious so many ice bitches on my lawn.

13:48:32 ThickAsThieves: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-hits-135-mt-gox-office-move-verification-demand/

13:48:43 ThickAsThieves: must be verified to wd coins too now

13:48:56 nicknode: wow

13:50:17 ThickAsThieves: oh today is the lawsky AMA

13:50:32 ThickAsThieves: the fun shall continue

13:50:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 60 @ 0.07101394 = 4.2608 BTC [+] {11}

13:50:39 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: When, doesn't look like I'm sleeping

13:51:30 ThickAsThieves: 3.5hrs

13:51:51 ThickAsThieves: time for nap if you try

13:51:59 Glotarolt: hello guys

13:52:03 ThickAsThieves: hi

13:52:06 Glotarolt: who want to sell LTC?

13:52:14 ThickAsThieves: wrong chan

13:52:19 Glotarolt: is this right chanel?

13:52:29 BingoBoingo: Glotarolt: I will sell you 5 LTC at 3 BTC per LTC

13:52:41 Glotarolt: [14:51] <usaoscoin> it unfolded on #bitcoin-assets

13:52:50 Glotarolt: this guy give me this chanel to ask

13:53:10 ThickAsThieves: dunno what to tell ya

13:53:14 Glotarolt: i need big amount like 2-3k LTC

13:53:15 ThickAsThieves: yknow they have exchanges for hat

13:53:18 ThickAsThieves: that*

13:53:24 Glotarolt: NAhhh

13:53:33 Glotarolt: i just have much problem

13:53:35 ThickAsThieves: too hard to scam that wau?

13:53:38 ThickAsThieves: way*

13:53:40 Glotarolt: and i have now my btc

13:53:47 Glotarolt: long story

13:53:51 ThickAsThieves: i bet

13:53:52 Glotarolt: i want to kill someone

13:53:53 Glotarolt:

13:53:54 CheckDavid: Ba hahahahahaa

13:54:06 ThickAsThieves: kill urself?

13:54:18 random_cat: gravity works

13:54:22 Glotarolt: think kill myself?

13:54:24 Glotarolt: NO

13:54:30 ThickAsThieves: oh my mistake

13:54:37 CheckDavid: Glotarolt: I will kill ThickAsThieves for 2 coins.

13:54:42 ThickAsThieves: i figured you were the most convenient victim

13:54:42 Glotarolt: want to kill some Admin

13:54:45 CheckDavid: I'm a professional hitman

13:54:49 Glotarolt: Hahahaha

13:55:11 CheckDavid: World class assassination services

13:55:16 Glotarolt: i just cross here to ask for bloody LTC

13:55:17 Glotarolt: :)

13:55:27 ThickAsThieves: try #altcoin

13:55:35 Glotarolt: think?

13:55:44 BingoBoingo: Glotarolt: If you keep talking like this you might discover just how finite your existence is.

13:55:45 random_cat: i am a professional BOFH

13:55:49 CheckDavid: Easier to scam Ltc than BTC?

13:56:14 Glotarolt: ?

13:56:34 ThickAsThieves: will you pay a 10% premium on market price for the LTCs?

13:56:36 davout: Glotarolt why don't you start your own exchange

13:56:48 Glotarolt: i start soon

13:56:54 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1642144/plain/)

13:56:54 davout: !b 2

13:56:55 Glotarolt: wait to Gox crash

13:56:59 Glotarolt: :)

13:58:10 Mallstromm: https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwnuQWZg.jpg&t=537&c=7viZmSe90xbWQQ

13:58:42 davout: Mallstromm: is that a police complaint?

13:58:43 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00213003 = 0.9585 BTC [-]

13:59:01 Mallstromm: that's Warsaw's anticorruption division investigating MtGox Poland

13:59:03 Mallstromm: :D

14:00:15 davout: Mallstromm: i think mtgox's polish bank has more to lose in such an investigation than mtgox itself

14:00:33 davout: because they'll be found to have covered it all up

14:00:58 Mallstromm: davout: that would (partially) explain the absurd 100k x day limit on outgoing transactions?

14:01:32 davout: Mallstromm: i think that the limit is bullshit

14:01:49 Mallstromm: I agree. There's no way you have such limits.

14:01:55 davout: our bank already did bigger wires than that, for *one* wire

14:02:04 davout: you know, not for all the days wire

14:02:09 Mallstromm: And if you have them, you just increase those limits depending on your volume

14:02:25 BingoBoingo: davout: Is there a good way to get fucktons of USD into yout exchange?

14:02:37 Mallstromm: davout: I know and I agree. If you have the money, you can move it. That's how it works and how banks make their money.

14:02:45 davout: BingoBoingo: first question is "can you register?"

14:02:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 25 @ 0.16230094 = 4.0575 BTC [-]

14:02:53 davout: BingoBoingo: you're murrican right

14:02:59 davout: if so then you can't

14:03:01 BingoBoingo: davout: I dunno.

14:03:03 Glotarolt: He is IDIOT

14:03:23 davout: Mallstromm: exactly, they charge you, that's all

14:03:38 Mallstromm: yeah, being 'murrican kinda sucks. Such freedom, such wealth, such ass-rape :D

14:03:50 davout: wow

14:04:40 Mallstromm: Such NSA. Such guantanamo. Such ban on 'murricans on all BTC exchanges :D

14:04:51 Mallstromm: its really the land of the free

14:04:55 davout: Mallstromm: no, only a couple actually

14:05:13 BingoBoingo: davout: With lead time if necessary I can be dutch.

14:05:38 Mallstromm: davout: anyone willing to run a SERIOUS exchange will probably have to ban most american customers unless they can get MSB license in ALL States. That's kinda unpractical

14:05:41 davout: BingoBoingo: LOL

14:06:11 davout: Mallstromm: that makes no sense, the concept of a MSB exists only in the US, for the purpose of doing business with americans

14:06:18 BingoBoingo: davout: It's true though from my understanding of EU law and ancestery.

14:06:33 davout: BingoBoingo: even i couldn't get dual dutch citizenship

14:06:37 random_cat: south carolina does not require a msb

14:06:40 davout: and i'm fucking born there :)

14:07:09 Mallstromm: davout: there's need to be a dual-citizenship treaty for that and not many countries have such treaties

14:07:47 Mallstromm: davout: the fact is that if you ban 'murricans you avoid a lot of hassle

14:07:49 equex: usa demands you give up one

14:07:50 davout: Mallstromm: france and the netherlands had this retarded kid

14:07:53 davout: and called it belgium

14:07:56 equex: the us one

14:07:59 BingoBoingo: davout: I guess either I won the grandpa lottery or the civil service there is too fucked to follow the law.

14:08:18 Mallstromm: davout Mallstromm: france and the netherlands had this retarded kid -> THAT MADE ME LOL :D

14:09:53 BingoBoingo: davout: All the better. My ancestors are Flemish

14:11:07 Bugpowder: Mallstromm: Why is an MSB license impractical. You are thinking that MtGox level dipshites are going to be running the serious exchanges from now on? Major VC money is moving into the space, and US people will have liquidity access within their brokerage account by EOY.

14:11:29 davout: Bugpowder: what exactly do you call major VC money?

14:11:36 davout: coinbase's 25m?

14:11:39 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker --market mtgox

14:11:42 Mallstromm: I don't see major VC money

14:11:44 Mallstromm: I see peanuts

14:11:44 Bugpowder: that's just a start

14:11:52 Mallstromm: a few VC's gambling with play money

14:11:53 Mallstromm: that's all

14:11:54 kakobrekla: >15:35 A new protester has joined and is not happy.

14:11:58 kakobrekla: omg this is hilarious

14:12:18 Bugpowder: just keep thinking like the 2012-2013 paradigm will persist this year and next...

14:12:38 davout: Bugpowder: what's the 2012-2013 paradigm?

14:12:58 ThickAsThieves: that bitcoin is a nerdfadponziscam

14:12:58 Bugpowder: Shitty companies, shitty liquidity and nobody paying attention.

14:13:36 BingoBoingo: VC's gambling sounds right.

14:13:47 Bugpowder: That's what VCs do

14:13:48 ThickAsThieves: bug, what's your outlook for next ATH?

14:13:54 Bugpowder: $4000

14:13:58 Bugpowder: next to

14:13:59 ThickAsThieves: timewise

14:14:00 Bugpowder: top

14:14:02 Bugpowder: EOY

14:14:10 Bugpowder: but that's just based on growth curves

14:14:10 BingoBoingo: If Goldman or JP Morgan wants to get in this sector I am their hebe.

14:14:16 ThickAsThieves: i had $3400 in July

14:14:23 Bugpowder: could be that soon

14:14:32 davout: i think end 2014 be like end 2014, beginning of the next bubble

14:14:36 davout: end 2012

14:14:38 davout: dammit

14:15:03 davout: bottom this spring

14:15:03 BingoBoingo: end of 2012 was a low.

14:15:17 ThickAsThieves: well if all the traders with money agree, it will be so!

14:15:18 Bugpowder: We have seen the same pattern 3-4 times now

14:15:26 davout: yeah, which means it started going back up from there :-)

14:15:32 ThickAsThieves: i think bottom is this month actually

14:15:36 davout: ThickAsThieves:

14:15:38 davout: no

14:15:42 davout: dun think so

14:15:49 AndrewWhatsUpppp: expecting 111

14:15:57 ThickAsThieves: no, davout?

14:15:58 Bugpowder: we are going to need mainstream buy-in to support the next price level.

14:16:13 davout: ThickAsThieves: i remember when we hit $2 after seeing $32

14:16:14 Bugpowder: people like hblodget need to get their head out of their ass and buy some coins.

14:16:40 Bugpowder: davout: That's when I entered. Wired the money the day it hit $2.

14:16:55 gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 134.4, Best ask: 134.49, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 134.49, 24 hour volume: 75018.53888080, 24 hour low: 132.13, 24 hour high: 276.24152, 24 hour vwap: 189.9134

14:16:59 Bugpowder: I wonder what the price will be when Krugman capitulates.

14:17:05 BingoBoingo: I regret not buying at those 2 dollars.

14:17:41 ThickAsThieves: latest gribble response ever?

14:17:44 davout: glorious days

14:18:49 Bugpowder: I'll define major VC money to == enough money so that becoming an MSB in all 50 states is no big deal for multiple competing liquidity providers.

14:18:56 ThickAsThieves: i still think we have til ides of March at best to buy at bottom, got chart that sensibly disagrees?

14:20:58 KRS-One: Ahh the ides of March. That is when we move.

14:22:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.47799999 = 2.39 BTC [+] {3}

14:27:44 mircea_popescu: Mallstromm sooo... who are you ?

14:30:37 Mallstromm: mircea_popescu: an ex-securitate agent now looking into illicit business

14:31:13 BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: You ever have a clearance?

14:31:14 mircea_popescu: how clever.

14:31:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00086282 = 22.347 BTC [+] {2}

14:31:44 Mallstromm: :D

14:32:02 mircea_popescu: so typical twennysomething boi with too much too prove ?

14:32:20 BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: Are you elligible for the TS/SCI job fairs?

14:32:20 Mallstromm: mircea_popescu: unfortunately not so young

14:32:38 mircea_popescu: well time cures all.

14:33:20 Mallstromm: BingoBoingo: of course, my background is perfect to grant me a position in any three letter agency

14:34:13 BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: Congrats. I passed that chance up and my brain grew into a need for lamotrigine.

14:34:43 Mallstromm: now just cooperating with SELEC (http://www.secicenter.org/)

14:35:34 mircea_popescu: lmao why's the casa poporului there

14:35:44 BingoBoingo: lol

14:36:05 mircea_popescu: "BRUSSELS, January 21st, 2014", here's a picture of some building from romania.

14:36:27 Mallstromm: :D

14:36:55 Mallstromm: SELEC is run by the FBI (no joke). You know how amateurish these 'murricans guys are

14:37:44 mircea_popescu: http://www.secicenter.org/m271/Careers cute.

14:37:48 ozbot: SELEC Web Site

14:39:36 Mallstromm: well, you get paid in USD. :)

14:40:46 BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: Who does?

14:40:53 Mallstromm: Selec workers

14:41:03 mircea_popescu: o this is the seci thing

14:41:12 mircea_popescu: jesus what's with the constant rebranding.

14:42:42 Mallstromm: yes, its the SECI thing

14:43:08 Mallstromm: SECI is the old naming, SELEC is the new one

14:43:20 mircea_popescu: did it step in some paintcan or something ?

14:43:34 Mallstromm: still the official proxy of US three-letter-agencies in Eastern Europe

14:44:13 mircea_popescu: well cool.

14:44:41 Mallstromm: well, now we can stop joking :) sorry to interrupt you guys... But you was the one asking, Mircea

14:45:37 mircea_popescu: so wait, you aren't an ex securitate agent with a job in teh ex seci now secl?

14:47:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 182 @ 0.00085499 = 0.1556 BTC [+]

14:49:15 ThickAsThieves: cointerra delivers http://imgur.com/a/4W2ik

14:49:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50999996 BTC [+]

14:49:36 Mallstromm: empty boxes?

14:50:19 ThickAsThieves: mtgoxes

14:50:23 mircea_popescu: hahaha

14:50:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.07299999 = 1.241 BTC [+] {2}

14:51:10 mircea_popescu: haven't i seen those three fan things before ?

14:51:55 mircea_popescu: Created 15 hours ago 5 views << wow.

14:52:11 mircea_popescu: nobody cares, srsly ?

14:52:11 BingoBoingo: Shit

14:52:50 ThickAsThieves: i only found it incidentally

14:53:03 ThickAsThieves: Korbman posted it

14:53:44 BingoBoingo: ;;tslb

14:53:48 gribble: Time since last block: 20 minutes and 45 seconds

14:54:03 ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate

14:54:04 gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 3786669022.0 based on data since last change | 3995924804.52 based on data for last three days

14:54:12 ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats

14:54:14 gribble: Current Blocks: 286894 | Current Difficulty: 3.1295731745222874E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 288287 | Next Difficulty In: 1393 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3786669022.0 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.99634

14:54:46 BingoBoingo: I have such a solid knot on my forehead. Fuck hail

14:56:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54550 @ 0.0008639 = 47.1257 BTC [+] {2}

14:57:21 ThickAsThieves: ouch

14:57:39 ThickAsThieves: maybe you are becoming a full bronie

14:57:56 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I still have like two drinks left in this fifth.

14:58:59 ThickAsThieves: i know i said it already, but i fukn love this fever-tree ginger beer as a mixer

14:59:20 ThickAsThieves: makes your lips burn with joy

15:00:22 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Right nao I'm doing 50/50 instant coffee and vodka

15:00:32 Mallstromm: ThichkAsThieves: wonderful. Did you try the moscow mule with it? Fever-tree ginger beet + lime + vodka

15:00:57 ThickAsThieves: i add grapefruit juice too

15:01:19 Mallstromm: I prefer the original "moscow mule" with only vodka and some drops of natural lime juice

15:01:32 Mallstromm: grapefruit juice is too 'murrican for my taste :D

15:01:55 BingoBoingo: Grapefruit is healthy except for that part where it inhibits all of the good liver enzymes.

15:01:56 ThickAsThieves: hehe, too grapefruity for most people's taste i bet

15:02:08 ThickAsThieves: my wife thinks i prefer the most gross stuff

15:02:19 ThickAsThieves: hops, ginger, etc

15:02:22 BingoBoingo: Grapefruit tastes good enough.

15:02:22 mircea_popescu: tampons ?

15:02:50 BingoBoingo: Grapre fruit just leaves you vulerable to every poison ever.

15:03:04 Mallstromm: ThickAsThieves: i hope she's just speaking about food/beverages and not other kind of philias

15:03:07 ThickAsThieves: so it gets you higher, big deal

15:03:09 ThickAsThieves: :)

15:03:30 ThickAsThieves: well i do also like twister japanese horror

15:03:34 ThickAsThieves: twisted*

15:03:55 asciilifeform: from the circus: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562647/NSA-worker-beat-3-year-old-adopted-son-death-tells-police-hadnt-bonded-boy.html

15:03:58 kakobrekla: wait, instant coffee and vodka in same cup??

15:04:20 kakobrekla: i think id rather drink petrol

15:04:27 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Yeah, for justice

15:04:30 ThickAsThieves: probly taste similar

15:04:34 Mallstromm: kakobrekla: i hope he was joking, that's beyong gross

15:04:55 mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> i think id rather drink petrol << in moscow they do.

15:04:55 kakobrekla: i dunno, he does have balls.

15:05:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know what daily mail is right ?

15:05:14 mircea_popescu: sort-of like business insider with better creative writing.

15:05:18 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu and survive?

15:05:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: of course.

15:05:29 mircea_popescu: sure. they're survival champs.

15:05:56 asciilifeform: i can't wait for the tabloids to 'nsa ufos!1!!'

15:05:57 Mallstromm: well, if they survive winter in Novosibirsk they can survive anything

15:06:08 kakobrekla: here, bomb.

15:06:14 Mallstromm: in fact i wouldn't know how to survive a winter in Novosibirsk without drinking petrol

15:06:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so is the guy in custody ?

15:06:47 BingoBoingo: Fuck UFO's. Shit s boring. Fucking clouds attacked me today.

15:07:26 asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/damascus-man-charged-with-killing-his-three-year-old-adopted-son/2014/02/18/4cc02e2a-98a4-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_story.html

15:07:27 ozbot: Damascus man charged in death his 3-year-old adopted son - The Washington Post

15:07:32 asciilifeform: possibly.

15:08:12 mircea_popescu: "he is being held without bond."

15:08:15 mircea_popescu: they just added that lol.

15:08:19 mircea_popescu: no capital or anything.

15:08:23 asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/college-park-shady-grove-campuses-affected-by-university-of-maryland-security-breach/2014/02/19/ce438108-99bd-11e3-80ac-63a8ba7f7942_story.html

15:08:24 ozbot: University of Maryland computer security breach exposes 300,000 records - The Washington Post

15:08:31 asciilifeform: haha and there's the tortoise

15:08:42 BingoBoingo: Fucking terps

15:08:48 BingoBoingo: Herp Turp

15:08:52 asciilifeform: notice the dirt?

15:08:56 asciilifeform: it's from the 'sacrifices.'

15:10:00 BingoBoingo: So... concussion first aid. Is sleep good or bad?

15:10:08 BingoBoingo: If the patient is plastered.

15:10:09 mircea_popescu: it's fine.

15:11:02 BingoBoingo: Fuck spinny ice wind thingies.

15:11:12 asciilifeform: http://umd.edu/datasecurity/

15:11:13 ozbot: The University of Maryland :: A Public Research University Advancing our State and the World

15:11:29 asciilifeform: (mtgox style turdletter)

15:11:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.06300337 = 1.5751 BTC [-] {4}

15:12:18 Mallstromm: LOOOOL Mircea, what about that picture on your Twitter account? The one in which you are wearing an open shirt, showing to the world your beautiful chest?

15:12:19 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Universities have done worse. When I was at Mizzou their research reactor had a security breach.

15:12:20 Mallstromm: :D

15:12:24 Mallstromm: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu

15:12:25 ozbot: Mircea Popescu (Mircea_Popescu) on Twitter

15:12:28 Mallstromm: its hilarious man

15:12:42 mircea_popescu: hallo yes i am mircea popescu.

15:12:45 mircea_popescu: wtf.

15:12:51 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Largest research reactor in the US

15:13:33 BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: WHat is wrong with a dude showing some chest if he gets the pussy?

15:14:01 Mallstromm: "if he gets the pussy"

15:14:02 Mallstromm: :D

15:14:11 mircea_popescu: srsly, topless guys are a big deal nao ?

15:14:33 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe he doesn't ask or tell?

15:14:36 mircea_popescu: i fucking live in this world where women go about nude in teh park. i guess it'd be an ivory... tower ?

15:15:28 Mallstromm: well, you know, in some parts of the world taking a walk in the center of a city in top-less is quite awkward

15:15:39 mircea_popescu: in and of itself, awkward ?

15:15:48 mircea_popescu: some stupid bitch could be awkward at it, sure.

15:15:55 Mallstromm: :D

15:15:55 BingoBoingo: Mallstromm: You don't look like Mark Karpales do you?

15:15:57 mircea_popescu: the point of training is that she's not awkward.

15:15:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1203 @ 0.00019706 = 0.2371 BTC [-] {5}

15:16:59 asciilifeform: re: nsa chief: i wonder if the prosecutor knows that prosecutors 'could also have problems'

15:17:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll bet yo uthat particular prosecutor does not care.

15:17:36 asciilifeform: that's more or less the whole interesting part of the picture.

15:17:47 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Interesting is Mizzou reactor breach merely needed a cab and not a prosecutor.

15:18:05 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ?

15:19:31 BingoBoingo: So... I am fairly certain that in this channel I have made comments that limit the set of people who could be me to 1. But Meta-NSA is a myth.

15:20:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: worry after i'm impaled.

15:20:19 BingoBoingo: Fucking storm raid sirens again.

15:21:06 mircea_popescu: should we start a deadpool ?

15:21:08 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm just surprised the bore of an M16 is so small like a ruger plinking rifle.

15:21:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not like this is a national secret

15:21:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in most of the u.s. you can walk into a store and buy the damn thing and try it for yourself

15:22:27 asciilifeform: what's funny is that the ussr slavishly copied the 'tiny bullet' school of thought in '74

15:22:40 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No, but... At least the Moissin-Nagant through the M-14 had the virtue of not being bored in squirrel caliber.

15:22:58 asciilifeform: they taught soldiers marksmanship in those days

15:23:16 BingoBoingo: And engagement at distance.

15:24:18 asciilifeform: the modern school of thought, i believe, is 'wound, don't kill, the enemy and tie up three men'

15:24:34 asciilifeform: (actual experts are invited to comment)

15:24:36 mircea_popescu: at least in guerilla warfare, definitely.

15:24:40 BingoBoingo: I'd believe that.

15:24:44 Mats_cd03: 556 is godly

15:25:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever read the old fraudsters article re the la bank robbers ?

15:25:12 BingoBoingo: Wierdest thing I've known is the Yugo SKS. Soviet bullet, Nato grenade launcher

15:25:13 Mats_cd03: twice the combat load due yo half the weight of a 763 round

15:25:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the one with the armour?

15:25:41 Mats_cd03: 762 dat is

15:26:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one observing that their strategy was correct, in that the pensions and hi of the cops they shot make it unworthwhile for the cops to show up next time.

15:26:28 mircea_popescu: (yeah, same one).

15:26:59 asciilifeform: they showed up on account of being biorobots.

15:27:22 mircea_popescu: they still cost the taxpayer.

15:27:23 asciilifeform: ('meat puppets' in the english-speaking world?)

15:28:03 CiPi: Apple has startet again to accept bitcoin apps, alot of markets accepting bitcoin...ATM`s open is USA with btc...why the price is not rising and is falling?

15:28:14 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The right armour beats the wrong bullets?

15:28:32 BingoBoingo: Like in North Hollywood?

15:28:49 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2011/strategii-in-lupta-antisociala/

15:28:50 ozbot: Strategii in lupta antisociala pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

15:28:51 mircea_popescu: Strategia corecta, in sensul ca perfecta, este sa mergi si sa jefuiesti banca. Daca nu apare politia, foarte bine, mergi in treaba ta. Daca insa apare politia, macelaresti civilii. Si anume, pe toti. Fara ezitari, fara mila, cu toata atentia pentru optimizarea carnajului in sensul extensiunii. Doua-trei sute de persoane minim, intr-o zona cit de cit centrala (ca doara nu jefuiesti banci la periferie acuma).

15:28:51 mircea_popescu: Sigur, dupa aia cel mai probabil vei muri. Ei, si ? Conteaza mai putin asta, daca te gindesti ca a) de murit oricum mori si respectiv b) odata ce politistii stiu ca daca vin vor muri sute de civili iar daca stau acasa nu va muri nimeni ei nu mai au de fapt o alegere la dispozitie. Pur si simplu, nu le va da nimeni voie sa se apropie de locul jafului, ca trei sute de morti ori doua milioane bucata pe asigurari vine juma

15:28:54 mircea_popescu: ? de miliard, iara tu nu poti fura mai mult de citeva milioane in cash, dat fiind ca n-ai cum ii duce. De fapt exact asa s-a ajuns si la regula ca-ti da bancherul oriciti bani si te lasa sa pleci, singura victorie a oamenilor antisociali in raport cu societatea din istoria moderna.

15:29:28 Mats_cd03: what was that about pastebin

15:29:34 mircea_popescu: the correct strategy, which is to say the perfect strategy, is to go rob a bank. if no police shows up, good. if they do, butcher the civillians. which is to say, all ofthem. no mercy, no hesitation, optimize the carnage as to extension.

15:30:25 mircea_popescu: of course, you will likely die for it. so what ? hardly worth the menton this, if you think that a) you'll die anyway and b) once the police admin knows that sending the police means hundreds dead or wounded and if not sending the police means nothing they no longer have a choice.

15:31:07 mircea_popescu: pure and simple, they won't be even allowed to come near a place where someone's robbing a bank. because 300 hit at 3mn a piece is a billion, and nobody can afford to waste a billion to cover for whatever coupla million in bills you can possibly carry.

15:31:21 mircea_popescu: that's basically the principle there, works in all confrontations exactly the same.

15:32:01 BingoBoingo: Oh, robbing banks, the only way to do it wrong has to be carrying a sadwich, taking the money and walking briskly.

15:32:22 mircea_popescu: simple matter of cost optimisation, the well known weakness of the weak.

15:32:29 mircea_popescu: he who values his life has no future.

15:33:30 BingoBoingo: Funny story. After my allegedly disorderly conduct and old acquaintance from way back tried robbing a bank with a sandwhich.

15:33:41 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 3 lines man, cmon.

15:34:27 BingoBoingo: His bank robbery case is resolved, my disroderly conduct misdemeanor is still pending

15:34:52 BingoBoingo: On those mispelling it seems like bedtime.

15:34:52 mircea_popescu: obviously they wanted his sandwich

15:35:10 BingoBoingo: Of course.

15:35:59 BingoBoingo: As luck would have it for him he went into lockup as I fronted the local paper. He told the people in his pad "I know that dude"

15:36:50 BingoBoingo: No one messed with him, that he will talk about when he isn't hammered enough to bring out the trauma.

15:38:21 BingoBoingo: If only newspapers respected the sacred bounds of the word allegedly.

15:39:15 BingoBoingo: Done right, that could have been a bigger 1-2 social media coup than Y-Combinator could have imagined.

15:39:48 BingoBoingo: I only have to assume Paul Graham doesn't know how to pay me.

15:40:20 mircea_popescu: you got a graham fixation or somfin' ?

15:40:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07299999 = 0.219 BTC [+]

15:41:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, but he makes it clear he is the money slut. I just turned 28. Going off of the lifespoans of most of my close relatives I've only got 22 years left at most.

15:42:09 BingoBoingo: I'm not giving up, so he is going to have to learn to pay the piper.

15:42:53 mircea_popescu: guy is what, 60 ? give him a break.

15:43:04 mircea_popescu: you're like some chick indignant that rms won't wash for her.

15:43:13 mircea_popescu: "but i'm 28! and my tits are really nice!!1"

15:45:02 BingoBoingo: lol, fair enough. Maybe it is 'Murica, but in my ancestry lives past 50 years of age seem to be... rather uncommon.

15:46:03 BingoBoingo: I'll be back. Imma try to sleep while the storm raid sirens are STFU.

15:53:27 pankkake: perhaps they didn't eat paleo

16:01:18 nubbins`: hi

16:01:43 mircea_popescu: hey

16:02:52 mike_c: BingoBoingo: last sale was to me, so you don't have *all* the orders on x-bt :)

16:26:18 Mallstromm: Withdrawals not working on Bitstamp

16:26:33 Mallstromm: http://www.dumpt.com/img/viewer.php?file=c5n76shw9wspczpdmnge.jpg

16:26:37 Mallstromm: sweet stuff

16:26:50 kakobrekla: THE COMPUTER SAYS NO

16:27:18 Mallstromm: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=476614.0

16:27:20 ozbot: Anyone else got bitstamp btc withdrawal problems?

16:27:30 mike_c: what an infuriating error message

16:30:33 kakobrekla: no dude

16:30:39 kakobrekla: "Bitstamp. How an exchange should be run. "

16:30:45 kakobrekla: DONT YA KNOW?!

16:31:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07002301 = 0.14 BTC [-]

16:31:30 mike_c: best in the business. it's like being the best spammer or something.

16:34:10 kakobrekla: lel

16:34:30 nubbins`: ** ATTENTION ** As per our terms of service, we only service Canadian Citizens. If you deposit BTC, you will **NOT** be able to withdraw them until you are level 1 Verified or higher. Failure to get level 1 verified or higher will result in the **FORFEITURE OF YOUR COINS**!!!

16:34:33 nubbins`: ^ cavirtex

16:34:46 nubbins`: as a canadian citizen, i eagerly await my servicing

16:35:01 nubbins`: my body is ready

16:35:04 Bugpowder: This is probably the first time Mark K has bitten off more than he could chew.

16:35:44 mircea_popescu: wait, forfeiture of coins ?

16:36:27 mircea_popescu: you mean people don't have the god given right to send bitcoin to any address for any purpose they themselves established ?

16:36:27 kakobrekla: he did that the first time he installed bitcoind Bugpowder

16:37:18 nubbins`: oh, they have the right

16:37:26 nubbins`: they just don't have the right to get their coins returned to them

16:37:34 Bugpowder: <cough> Incoming Bitcoin that doesn't exactly match a quoted sum will be simply kept, reported as profits and distributed to MPEx shareholders.

16:38:16 kakobrekla: yeah but we all know he is just crazy.

16:42:00 mjr_: hi all

16:42:05 nubbins`: hi

16:42:13 mjr_: whats new in the world?

16:42:26 nubbins`: trying to build eulora, gonna grind up some beef soon

16:42:51 Apocalyptic: .d

16:42:51 ozbot: 3129573174.52229 | Next Diff in 1383 blocks | Estimated Change: 19.8444% in 7d 16h 45m 14s

16:42:54 mjr_: nice

16:43:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.16230094 = 1.2984 BTC [-]

16:45:35 mjr_: ah...gox is getting to be pretty annoying

16:48:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00086638 = 6.1513 BTC [+]

16:53:02 dexX7_: woah x_X my test withdrawal from kraken to fidor bank via sepa did not even take one hour

16:55:53 nubbins`: :o

16:57:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0645 = 0.129 BTC [+]

16:59:18 mircea_popescu: nubbins` a yes lemme know

16:59:24 mircea_popescu: dexX7_ wd.

16:59:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.90663431 BTC to 2`373 shares, 80347 satoshi per share

16:59:41 mircea_popescu: sepa is normally like that. provided, you know, the exchange actually sends it.

17:00:28 davout: hey mjr_

17:00:36 mjr_: what up

17:00:44 jurov: depends, sepa can arrive next day

17:00:44 mjr_: how are you doing?

17:01:33 AndrewWhatsUpppp: sepa is a month+ last i heard

17:02:22 ThickAsThieves: Spanish banking group BBVA acquires Simple for $117 million in cash

17:03:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-]

17:03:55 jurov: AndrewWhatsUpppp that's mtgox exclusive feature

17:04:09 AndrewWhatsUpppp: haha

17:04:21 AndrewWhatsUpppp: true. realSEPA (lol) is 1-2 business days yes

17:04:32 mircea_popescu: AndrewWhatsUpppp congratulations on being bought out for 190 billion.

17:04:33 AndrewWhatsUpppp: especially if your whole country has adopted the IBAN standard

17:05:25 TwinWinNerD: If the bank actually sends out the SEPA it is there within hours. But banking...

17:05:36 ThickAsThieves: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/02/20/doug-kass-doubles-down-on-tesla-short/

17:05:37 ozbot: Doug Kass Doubles Down on Tesla Short - MoneyBeat - WSJ

17:06:06 mircea_popescu: that's not going to end well.

17:07:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.0004458 = 0.2229 BTC [+] {4}

17:08:36 Bugpowder: Trading 101 - How to dollar-cost average a short: Don’t.

17:09:18 mircea_popescu: at least he's a qualified investor.

17:10:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.063 = 0.315 BTC [-] {2}

17:13:33 mike_c: dollar-cost average is my second favorite "finance" term after head-and-shoulders.

17:14:20 mircea_popescu: i always wonder why it's not tit and elbow.

17:14:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 363 @ 0.0055 = 1.9965 BTC

17:22:45 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: not too crucial, but i don't think the new src actually does come with instructions

17:23:01 mircea_popescu: what's missing ?

17:23:20 nubbins`: instructions :D

17:24:09 mircea_popescu: you're not helping me :p

17:24:15 nubbins`: haha.

17:24:38 nubbins`: your post mentioned something about the source including instructions for building the client

17:24:44 mircea_popescu: well yes.

17:24:53 mircea_popescu: jamfiles etc

17:25:05 nubbins`: ah, aha. yes, sure

17:25:16 nubbins`: i suppose that's a form of instruction

17:25:29 nubbins`: i was searching for a README or something

17:25:31 mircea_popescu: but you know, i dunno what you want/need unless you say

17:25:32 mircea_popescu: o

17:25:45 nubbins`: altho TBF if you can't figure out how to use jam, instructions are going to be of minimal help

17:25:54 mircea_popescu: theres an automake or somesuch script i think

17:25:57 nubbins`: nod

17:26:54 nubbins`: ran into the same issues as before, likely related to apple's bundling their own fork of LLVM

17:27:16 mircea_popescu: as in it won't make or won't compile at all ?

17:27:50 ThickAsThieves: lawsky AMA open for questions http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ygcil/as_requested_im_ben_lawsky_superintendent_of_the/

17:27:58 nubbins`: lots of compile errors. i think i'm gonna try to install it via macports

17:28:22 nubbins`: need to do some more reading but IIRC macports lets you specify one of many versions of gcc

17:32:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]

17:34:51 ThickAsThieves: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg7rS1gIEAA9jB6.jpg:large

17:35:15 ThickAsThieves: is that a fingerprint scanner on his kb?

17:36:19 ThickAsThieves: what shitty desk setup

17:36:26 ThickAsThieves: where do his legs go

17:36:27 mircea_popescu: why the fuck does he have a gamebox

17:36:33 mircea_popescu: or wtf lame console i don't even know is that ?

17:36:50 ThickAsThieves: supernintendo lawsky meme

17:36:58 ThickAsThieves: he's into it

17:37:14 mircea_popescu: jesus.

17:37:42 mircea_popescu: desk too low, that thing actually looks like he's moved into his master's house as a junior slavegirl and they didn't have a spare room so he got the closet.

17:38:50 mircea_popescu: at least he got a blue shirt so should be ok.

17:38:57 mircea_popescu: that's finance, right ?

17:38:59 nubbins`: confirmed, his knees don't go under that keyboard tray

17:39:05 ThickAsThieves: blue shirt red tie, horrible

17:39:14 nubbins`: his back must hurt all the time

17:39:24 ThickAsThieves: and look how low his monitors are

17:39:27 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it's a power tie. it's what real high power business execs do.

17:39:29 ThickAsThieves: hunch all day

17:39:29 mircea_popescu: if it's 2006.

17:39:52 mircea_popescu: i don't get these people with the top of monitor alligned to nostril arrangements.

17:39:58 ThickAsThieves: we're so lame

17:40:00 nubbins`: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-95jJQwpsuhk/TxAqf84m62I/AAAAAAAABtI/xoZX_-7nANo/s1600/-9.jpg

17:40:01 ThickAsThieves: lol

17:40:01 mircea_popescu: here i am harranguing you people about letters too smal

17:40:03 nubbins`: blue shirt red tie

17:40:33 ThickAsThieves: is that gay will smith?

17:40:44 mircea_popescu: and meanwhile the ny bureaucracy is stuck nosedripping past the screen

17:41:01 ThickAsThieves: anyone have any good questions for him?

17:41:05 mircea_popescu: nubbins` the shoes are the most worrisome.

17:41:13 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i want to know why is his desk so low.

17:41:19 mircea_popescu: isn't he uncomfortable there ?

17:41:54 nubbins`: "shoes"

17:42:06 nubbins`: that's like calling a condom a pair of pants

17:43:18 pLambert: see, he never actually uses the computer, he has another desk to his right

17:43:21 mircea_popescu: sarcasm is the highest form of internetwit.

17:43:36 mircea_popescu: pLambert so your theory is basically scamcomputerdesk ?

17:43:53 pLambert: more that the computer is there for show

17:43:59 mircea_popescu: right.

17:44:03 mircea_popescu: ken lansky.

17:44:16 ThickAsThieves: aww i can only post every 8min

17:44:20 ThickAsThieves: lame

17:44:26 mircea_popescu: how 8 ?!

17:44:28 ThickAsThieves: or 10 or whatever

17:44:37 mircea_popescu: you gotta mine a reddit block ?

17:44:38 ThickAsThieves: "you are doing that too much. try again in 8 minutes."

17:45:25 ThickAsThieves: i did ask "Would you agree that money laundering is now impossible to stop due to inter-cryptocurrency exchanges and a global market outside of the US?"

17:45:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.07002201 = 0.4902 BTC [-] {3}

17:45:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.063 = 0.63 BTC [-]

17:45:43 mircea_popescu: such a pointless question.

17:46:00 ThickAsThieves: couldnt think of anything i actually wanted to know from him

17:46:13 mircea_popescu: ask some chick you met in a bar if she'd agree she's never going to get satisfactorily laid ever again in her life.

17:46:24 ThickAsThieves: well

17:46:34 nubbins`: 9/10 would say "i agree"

17:46:45 ThickAsThieves: it's more putting the topic on the table to see what he says

17:46:48 nubbins`: the other 1 in ten have heard of me

17:47:16 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves bad medium for that approach. i can afford it with noobs here cause they're stuck with me. amas tho...

17:47:53 ThickAsThieves: well the first reply shows it

17:48:15 ThickAsThieves: "there is no evidence that money-launderers , South American Drug Barrons or international terrorist have , of have any intention of EVER using Bitcoin ( The transaction logs on the blockchain will render them traceable ) So they will stick with the good old fashioned Dollar ( latest estimates is that there is over 1.5trillion Dollars involved world-wide ) any comments Ben ?"

17:48:22 mircea_popescu: tbh i kinda like the guy. i mean he looks uncomfortable as all hell and plenty clueless,

17:48:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02230888 = 0.1115 BTC [-] {4}

17:48:30 mircea_popescu: but otherwise i suspect he means well.

17:48:35 ThickAsThieves: i like him too

17:48:46 ThickAsThieves: i think he likes bitcoin much more than he'll let on

17:49:05 mircea_popescu: not much of a criterion, that.

17:49:12 mircea_popescu: so far bitcoin's been helped more by people that hated it

17:49:15 mircea_popescu: than by those loving it.

17:49:21 Mats_cd03: i think its relatively easy to launder bitcoin

17:49:39 ThickAsThieves: well this is a guy that has an arsenal of red tape and idiocy at his disposal

17:49:53 nubbins`: mircea_popescu, do you know if i should be using a specific snapshot of crystalspace-2.1? http://crystalspace3d.org/cvs-snapshots/zip/

17:50:15 Mats_cd03: certainly not trillions but i could see hundreds of millions being feasible

17:50:38 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 how exactly do you put the limit ?

17:50:48 mircea_popescu: if i can launder a dime i can launder a quadrillion.

17:50:50 Mats_cd03: i dont, its arbitrary

17:50:51 nubbins`: latest stable is 2.0, but ./configure checks for >= 2.1

17:50:52 mircea_popescu: just rotate it.

17:51:18 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker --market mtgox

17:51:19 gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 122.0, Best ask: 123.6, Bid-ask spread: 1.60000, Last trade: 121.0, 24 hour volume: 85791.15253635, 24 hour low: 120.69, 24 hour high: 276.24152, 24 hour vwap: 178.66003

17:52:02 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know the thing is in the first bundle

17:52:08 nubbins`: aha!

17:52:15 nubbins`: ty

17:52:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC

17:52:59 mircea_popescu: mp mp.

17:53:27 ThickAsThieves: lawsky: "I think new, careful regulations, especially related to preventing money laundering, will make banks more comfortable with Bitcoin-related activity over time."

17:53:28 nubbins`: mircea popescu magic points

17:53:35 ThickAsThieves: asnwering a diff q

17:53:37 mircea_popescu: my pleasure

17:53:41 nubbins`: i know ;(

17:54:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0625 = 0.125 BTC [-]

17:56:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 21 @ 0.07005 = 1.4711 BTC [+] {2}

17:57:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07000024 = 1.4 BTC [-]

17:58:09 benkay: mircea_popescu: method of currency my sides

17:58:38 benkay: exponential growth; logarithmic leaps!

17:59:27 mircea_popescu: waitwut

18:00:52 jcpham: goxfail is an interesting dynamic to follow

18:01:21 jcpham: either masterful manipulation of throngs of users who expect insolvency

18:01:30 jcpham: i can't tell which yet

18:01:47 nubbins`: yeh, interesting times

18:02:05 Mats_cd03: time to buy more btc

18:02:15 nubbins`: people buy btc?

18:02:16 jcpham: very interesting to see if it stops and where

18:02:29 ThickAsThieves: how is it masterful?

18:02:38 ThickAsThieves: things that are obvious are not genius or masterful

18:02:42 jcpham: i've always thought it was gox

18:02:53 ThickAsThieves: mostly just criminal in this case

18:02:55 jcpham: and it isn't obviously mtgox doing it is it?

18:03:05 ThickAsThieves: it is

18:03:19 jcpham: proof because i just speculate it

18:03:28 jcpham: i always have though

18:03:33 mircea_popescu: that's ok, jcpham just has this insane british passion of arguing for the dead underdog.

18:03:44 mircea_popescu: it usually fucks him in the ass, but he keeps a stiff upper buttlip and limps on.

18:04:34 jcpham: unless you guys know of some specific citable proof that mtgox internally is doing this

18:05:04 jcpham: i still say masterful manipulation on mtgox's part for not being proven to do it yet

18:05:14 jcpham: txn volume alone

18:05:29 mircea_popescu: derp.

18:05:33 ThickAsThieves: occam was never one to smack proof over the head

18:05:40 jcpham: not the razor!

18:05:43 mircea_popescu: you know who else isn't proven to be "doing it" yet ?

18:05:48 mircea_popescu: gbbg or w/e it was called, that thing.

18:05:52 mircea_popescu: bggb

18:05:56 mircea_popescu: something.

18:06:15 ThickAsThieves: bel biv devoe?

18:06:23 mircea_popescu: some dumbass forum "security"

18:06:57 mircea_popescu: but when you're done with the derp and are actually ready to look the proof over, try for instance https://twitter.com/krtek_net/status/436492419811405824

18:07:17 mircea_popescu: i dunno how clearer than "we're only executing sell orders if they're over XXX arbitrary value" you can get.

18:08:36 ThickAsThieves: and this http://i.imgur.com/qLYhzR3.jpg

18:09:15 ThickAsThieves: we know it wasnt Namworld selling all dem coins

18:10:00 nubbins`: haha

18:10:02 nubbins`: nice graph

18:11:29 Bugpowder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_U4a8YoB9w

18:11:30 ozbot: Apocalypse Now - Intro (HD) - YouTube

18:11:30 mircea_popescu: fraudsters is now using 3mB/s

18:11:34 mircea_popescu: what the fuck people ;/

18:12:00 nubbins`: your popeuloraty is rising

18:12:07 nubbins`: (swidt?)

18:12:19 mircea_popescu: lol popehatness.

18:13:15 mircea_popescu: i gotta say, ancient wordpress is superbly solid software.

18:13:25 mircea_popescu: that's a modest server really spitting out all that shit.

18:14:35 ThickAsThieves: gox gonna break 100

18:14:41 Bugpowder: yep

18:14:45 Mallstromm: double digits here we come

18:14:51 Bugpowder: makes no sense to me

18:15:01 Bugpowder: you aren't getting your dollars out either

18:15:08 ThickAsThieves: you assume it

18:15:09 Bugpowder: why not have 5x the value

18:15:11 ThickAsThieves: s not mostly gox

18:15:12 nubbins`: lelling at the goxbtc-for-realbtc trade in -otc these days

18:15:13 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder might as well enjoy the trading.

18:15:23 mircea_popescu: nubbins` is it going well ?

18:15:34 nubbins`: we won't know until later

18:15:49 nubbins`: rather, it's going well, we're just not sure who it's going well for

18:15:58 dexX7_: almost 3k traded today on bitcoinbuilder.com, no idea how much went through -otc

18:16:00 Bugpowder: Any actual lawsuit shutdown payout will probably come up with a market valuation for the BTC and disburse assets accordingly

18:16:14 ThickAsThieves: in 2016

18:16:30 Bugpowder: how can they not have the coins?

18:16:31 Bugpowder: really

18:16:34 ThickAsThieves: by then ATC will rule

18:16:38 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder lolsuit. remember they still owe the bitcoinica btc ?

18:16:40 ThickAsThieves: really?

18:16:50 Bugpowder: a hot wallet might have been scooped

18:16:53 uglux: how much?

18:16:54 Bugpowder: but not the cold storage

18:17:00 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder it's all gone.

18:17:05 mircea_popescu: that's what the "malleability" bs was all about.

18:17:12 ThickAsThieves: bug they were sending coins more than once

18:17:13 mircea_popescu: they emptied whatever was left and that's that.

18:17:23 Bugpowder: not from a cold wallet

18:17:25 ThickAsThieves: the loss can be as large as their derp

18:17:25 mircea_popescu: uglux 20k, something.

18:17:38 Bugpowder: what was the last wallet address they signed from?

18:17:48 Mats_cd03: they prob emptied a cold wallet or five before they knee about the bug

18:17:50 nubbins`: it's a wonder that a gang of weeaboos hasn't violently assaulted karplelelel yet

18:17:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02000264 = 0.12 BTC [-]

18:17:59 Mats_cd03: knew*

18:18:16 ThickAsThieves: seriously, at this point i wanna beat him down just because

18:18:26 kakobrekla: the gang is almost doubling every day

18:18:31 kakobrekla: now at 3 people.

18:18:35 ThickAsThieves: lo

18:18:35 mircea_popescu: lol

18:18:47 Mats_cd03: hit him with your keyboard

18:18:50 ThickAsThieves: it's a protest bubble!

18:18:50 mircea_popescu: a GANG of weaboos ? this reminds me of the old mp skit about the evil grannies.

18:19:54 ThickAsThieves: "Many bitcoin enthusiasts think that the widespread adoption of some form of cryptocurrency is an inevitability and that unfriendly governments such as China and Russia will ultimately be powerless to stop it. Do you share this view?"

18:20:02 ThickAsThieves: Lawsky: Hard to put the genie back in the bottle. I can't predict the future but Bitcoin is certainly a new powerful technology that holds a lot of promise for the future if we can mitigate some of the potential negatives like money laundering.

18:20:15 nubbins`: yeah, i guess it's a bit of a reach that weeaboos could organize in meatspace

18:20:18 benkay: Mats_cd03: re: cleaning coins: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/01/31_mix-your-coins-for-1-bitbet-as-mixer.html

18:21:08 pankkake: but bitbets are public

18:21:18 benkay: mircea_popescu: referring to your link ibm/bitcoin poster and the failure of education

18:21:22 benkay: u no ams see "private bitbet" pankkake?!

18:21:50 mircea_popescu: that link was such sad fail.

18:21:55 pankkake: certes

18:22:04 Mallstromm: bitbet "war chest"

18:22:06 Mallstromm: LOL

18:22:21 Mallstromm: maybe they were referring to Mircea's "milky-white chest"

18:22:25 ThickAsThieves: but the coins arent even cleaned

18:22:32 ThickAsThieves: they are just sent back to you, no?

18:23:45 ThickAsThieves: lol 4600 coins bid at 110.00

18:24:18 dignork: ThickAsThieves, coins might be different, but bitbet is useless for hiding, bet wins are returned to the same address, or the one mentioned in initial transfer, so it's easy track

18:24:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know how Мичурин died btw ?

18:24:46 benkay: ThickAsThieves: you can check with mircea_popescu and kakobrekla but i believe you'll be getting older coins than you put int.

18:24:52 mircea_popescu: dignork how do you reason ?

18:24:53 benkay: dignork: bet wins are returned to the address of your choice - get it right.

18:24:54 ThickAsThieves: dignork you can specify a new payout address

18:25:09 Mallstromm: lol, only $2M on Gox's order book :D :D :D

18:25:23 dignork: ThickAsThieves: yes, you can, but return address is posted in the betting transaction

18:25:26 ThickAsThieves: now if BitBet itself also needs to clean coins, i could see this working out

18:25:31 ThickAsThieves: :)

18:25:55 ThickAsThieves: not on private bets

18:25:58 uglux: gox is a fucking casino now: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg5264088#msg5264088https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg5264088#msg5264088

18:26:00 ThickAsThieves: dignork ^

18:26:09 mircea_popescu: dignork so what if the address is posted ?

18:26:31 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if gox will go to single digits

18:26:41 mircea_popescu: lol it'd be epic if they actually put a dice system in.

18:26:49 dignork: mircea_popescu, for proper tumbling return address should be passed out of band, reading about private bets now

18:27:09 mircea_popescu: i do not follow your logic. so address is published. so ?

18:28:23 benkay: american banks fading in relevance: http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/20/online-bank-simple-acquired-by-spains-bbva-for-117m-with-a-focus-on-international-growth/

18:28:42 mircea_popescu: chec it out, 1% of snapchat or w/e it was.

18:29:18 benkay: mircea_popescu dignork: even so, private bets hold addresses...private, keeping third parties from bridging through scraping bitbet

18:29:23 kakobrekla: omg lolz www.bitcoinbuilder.com

18:29:58 Bugpowder: just-dice is much better for mixing

18:30:24 mircea_popescu: don't they do the sdice include inputs in outputs ?

18:31:05 Bugpowder: was better. I'm not sure actually, haven't been following along lately.

18:31:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]

18:31:26 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lol they do payouts once a day ? suicide.

18:31:30 mircea_popescu: how many days are there.

18:31:45 kakobrekla: i dunno just got the link from bug :>

18:32:45 nubbins`: lovely responsive design there

18:33:21 kakobrekla: kinda broked neh?

18:34:11 mircea_popescu: Morgan Housel @TMFHousel Critics: Mark Zuckerberg understands the value of social networks better than you do. That's why he's Mark Zuckerberg and you're a critic.

18:34:11 mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu @TMFHousel @EddyElfenbein Thank you Mr. Candide. Pangloss is calling, run along now.

18:34:15 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/0c2rj74

18:34:16 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

18:34:19 nubbins`: masterful

18:34:21 mircea_popescu: i'm pasting this here because i'd like at least one person to get it.

18:34:30 mircea_popescu: and i don't see it happening on twitter...

18:34:58 mircea_popescu: nubbins` at least it's not titstrap.

18:35:17 benkay: HAW

18:38:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 132 @ 0.00292 = 0.3854 BTC [-]

18:39:51 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/281/btc-usd-at-mtgox-will-be-above-150-on/

18:39:52 ozbot: BitBet - BTC/USD at MtGox will be above $150 on Mar 1st 2014

18:39:54 mircea_popescu: holy shit this will burn.

18:40:16 mircea_popescu: 3:45 atm. ppl gonna make out like bandits.

18:40:45 benkay: mhm

18:40:48 benkay: weight's working correctly on that one too.

18:41:11 ThickAsThieves: i got .1 at 3169 weight, not great, but not bad

18:41:40 ThickAsThieves: bitbet has .07 at 99999 weight

18:41:44 ThickAsThieves: hehe

18:41:52 mircea_popescu: ya bitbet will make what, 1 btc there ?

18:42:35 ThickAsThieves: yep

18:42:52 mircea_popescu: course it could just as well go to 3983409583409853098 on the 1st

18:42:58 ThickAsThieves: indeed

18:44:01 ThickAsThieves: kinda surprised bitstamp price is hanging in there

18:44:06 ThickAsThieves: 575 atm

18:45:34 mircea_popescu: check out 1994 :

18:45:35 mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Really? (Jerry shakes his head) Maybe this will become like a cool thing, living with your parents.

18:45:36 mircea_popescu: JERRY: (sarcastically) Ya, then maybe baldness will catch on. This will all be turning your way.

18:45:41 mircea_popescu: today is 2014, and needless to say...

18:46:31 nubbins`: a cool thing

18:50:51 ThickAsThieves: this AMA blows

18:51:02 ThickAsThieves: first one i've ever followed live

18:51:36 ThickAsThieves: basically it's meaningless words with "but money laundering" weaved in

18:54:15 benkay: sounds like typical usg propaganda

18:54:22 Bugpowder: I stopped the terrorists and created 2.5 million jobs with my bit license

18:54:42 Bugpowder: Lawsky's stump speech for NY gov 2016

18:56:08 ThickAsThieves: is pot legal in NY yet? he can add that to his agenda

18:56:49 Bugpowder: http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/20/balanced-coinbase-bitcoin/

18:56:50 ozbot: Marketplace Payments Startup Balanced Partners With Coinbase And Adds Bitcoin Support | TechCrunch

18:57:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50996 BTC [-]

18:58:14 mircea_popescu: he's not running for governor.

18:59:18 ThickAsThieves: mayor?

18:59:19 mircea_popescu: i wonder if this ends up in a coinlab-esque trial.

18:59:32 mircea_popescu: nah they have a commie kid for mayor, he'll stick till the town sinks.

18:59:55 Bugpowder: ok 2020 USPrez

19:00:19 mircea_popescu: i think he may be trying for a job in the actual institutions

19:00:22 mircea_popescu: sec, whatever.

19:00:57 ThickAsThieves: except he'll just end up cryptolord, cuz no one else will wanna be it

19:03:08 mircea_popescu: ;;google lansky new york

19:03:09 gribble: Lansky's Old World Deli - CLOSED - Upper West Side - New York ...: http://www.yelp.com/biz/lanskys-old-world-deli-new-york-2; Lansky's New York | American, Pasta, Breakfast | Order Online | 235 ...: http://lanskysnewyork.com/; West Side Rag » LANSKY'S DELI CLOSES: http://www.westsiderag.com/2013/02/25/lanskys-deli-closes

19:03:14 benkay: cryptolord of NYC

19:03:20 benkay: i don't want it.

19:03:22 mircea_popescu: check that out, a closed deli outranks him in ny.

19:03:23 benkay: and i *like* the place.

19:03:40 mircea_popescu: i tell you i dun see governor.

19:03:44 Bugpowder: LAWSKY

19:03:52 benkay: ;;google lawsky new york

19:03:53 gribble: Benjamin M. Lawsky - Department of Financial Services - New York ...: http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/staff_bios/blawsky.htm; Benjamin Lawsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Lawsky; Ben Lawsky (BenLawsky) on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BenLawsky

19:04:13 mircea_popescu: o silly me.

19:06:11 mircea_popescu: young guy, anwyay. too soon to say where he ends up.

19:08:18 benkay: us young guys - too young to get shitloads of dollars into btc at the right time, doomed to toil for the cryptolords forever.

19:08:52 mircea_popescu: the wonders of deflationary currencies.

19:09:16 benkay: check your privilege, mircea_popescu

19:11:07 pLambert: so, when MtGox goes away in a day or two, will the price on the other exchanges go back up to 1000?

19:11:24 nubbins`: in a day or two, heh

19:11:35 nubbins`: willing to put some money behind that?

19:12:31 pLambert: nah, I dont like to bet on idiots

19:12:45 benkay: but those are the best bets!

19:16:50 dignork: mircea_popescu, sorry I had to jump offline for a bit, back to the using bitbet as a tumbler, private bets do provide this function, but bitbet.us is not accessible over tor and does not work over https...

19:17:28 nubbins`: no https!

19:17:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97375 @ 0.00086765 = 84.4874 BTC [+] {6}

19:18:01 Bugpowder: Gox is solvent

19:18:10 asciilifeform: no, gox is solute.

19:18:10 Bugpowder: we need a new bitbet

19:18:18 mircea_popescu: dignork why isn't it accessible over tor ?!

19:19:01 dignork: mircea_popescu: I meant it does not implement hidden service, or at least I couldn't find the interface

19:19:18 asciilifeform: bitbet is perfectly accessible over tor. but exits can easily substitute in magic addrs instead of the supplied ones.

19:19:21 mircea_popescu: it doesn't as an onion, no, if that's what you meant

19:19:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 13 @ 0.02000263 = 0.26 BTC [-] {2}

19:20:06 dignork: mircea_popescu: yep, I meant onion addr, the point is to encrypt the traffic, not identity of the player

19:20:08 mircea_popescu: what's https help anyway ?

19:20:16 mircea_popescu: i don't think you

19:20:23 nubbins`: ^

19:20:24 mircea_popescu: 're proceeding with a clear understanding of what you wish to achieve

19:20:33 mircea_popescu: but moreover are trying to do a particular dance.

19:20:59 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as this is true, and you wish to do "x-tumbler-dance" obviously bitbet won't be a good solution for oyu.

19:22:38 pLambert: use bitbet as tumbler: put in small bet on winning side, put in large (to be laundered) bet on the losing side. Voila, instead of having stolen bitcoins you now have gambling winnings.

19:22:42 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder solvent in the sense of sniffing glue ?

19:23:17 nubbins`: "i am the solvent"

19:24:07 dignork: mircea_popescu: I don't care if it's called tumbler, the idea is that person A sends funds to person B in untraceable way. Placing bet over public channel is not so untraceable.

19:25:20 mircea_popescu: take a bet with a:b odds. place bet A on a going to A', bet B on b going to B'.

19:25:28 mircea_popescu: either A or B is "dirtly", the rest are clean.

19:25:36 mircea_popescu: you are now completely separated.

19:26:42 Mallstromm: really?

19:26:51 dignork: mircea_popescu: assuming it's a private bet, placed over clear channel, it's trivially linked

19:26:53 Mallstromm: are you guys still discussing about the retarded "bitbet as a tumbler" issue?

19:26:55 nubbins`: but the guy monitoring his non-https traffic is observing him placing these bets

19:26:57 Mallstromm: like 5 hours later?

19:27:05 nubbins`: Mallstromm, they took a break

19:27:14 nubbins`: are you harping on people for having a conversation?

19:27:15 nubbins`: ;p

19:27:16 mircea_popescu: dignork maybe trivially doesn't mean what you think it means.

19:27:17 dignork: if it's a public bet, you're risking odds change

19:27:25 mircea_popescu: so use small sums.

19:27:39 mircea_popescu: Mallstromm did you want to contribute something ?

19:27:43 Mallstromm: yep

19:27:57 Mallstromm: if you want to tumble your coins, just send them to bitcoinfog.com and follow the procedure

19:28:08 nubbins`: but i don't trust bitcoinfog

19:28:18 mircea_popescu: who is bitcoinfog ?

19:28:29 Mallstromm: what it's sure is that sending the "tainted" coins from address A to receive them back to address A is just retarded.

19:28:36 mircea_popescu: How the service works

19:28:37 mircea_popescu: You register an account on our website

19:28:39 mircea_popescu: are you retarded ?

19:28:52 Apocalyptic: i'm pretty sure they are selectively scamming

19:28:54 dignork: mircea_popescu: i do not mean script kiddie intercepting plaintext http traffic to bitbet, I mean trivial for law enforcement for example

19:28:57 Mallstromm: mircea: just a little

19:29:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.101 = 0.202 BTC [-] {2}

19:29:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]

19:29:11 mircea_popescu: dignork doing what dood ?

19:29:20 mircea_popescu: so you lost some money on a bet, and some people won it.

19:29:21 mircea_popescu: now what.

19:29:30 Mallstromm: dignork: well, if LE is sniffing your traffic that means they are physically VERY CLOSE to you... Thus you have much bigger problems

19:29:57 dignork: Mallstromm, I assume LE sniffing bitbet traffic

19:30:20 Mallstromm: dignork: I've used bitcoinfog many times. It works just fine. They've been in business for more than a year now. It's as safe as it gets. Just do not send hundreds of coins but a few dozens at a time

19:30:25 MisterE: hah, people are selling off interest in their coins locked up in Cox

19:30:30 nubbins`: "as safe as it gets"

19:30:31 asciilifeform: dignork, Mallstromm: if you're using tor, children are sniffing your traffic

19:30:31 nubbins`: get out

19:30:32 asciilifeform: and laughing.

19:30:36 MisterE: sounds like CDF to me

19:30:58 mircea_popescu: Mallstromm may i point out that the firm guarantees of nobody are worth nothing ?

19:31:09 mircea_popescu: get in the wot, come back in a year, i might care. probably i won't, but anywya.

19:31:20 nubbins`: maybe i'm just being obtuse, but i'm not sure where the confusion is here

19:31:24 MisterE: but in person

19:31:29 MisterE: buy*

19:31:34 MisterE: only tru anon

19:31:45 dignork: asciilifeform, sure, exit nodes are sniffing, or at least could, so it's a working assumption

19:32:04 Mallstromm: sure, exit nodes are sniffing my encrypted traffic

19:32:06 Mallstromm: good for them

19:32:12 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i'd tell you but i'm trying being polite ot the noobs.

19:32:26 asciilifeform: sniffing and, if they wish, changing.

19:32:32 Mallstromm: I'm sure not logging on my personal POP3, non-SSL email account through Tor

19:32:34 Mallstromm: :D

19:32:51 asciilifeform: what part of s/bitbetaddr/magicaddr is difficult to understand

19:32:53 nubbins`: suppose person X's traffic is being sniffed. person X sets up a private bitbet, with input address A and payout address B. sniffer observes this. sniffer now knows that person X controls address B.

19:33:04 nubbins`: hold my hand here, someone

19:33:46 mircea_popescu: nubbins` he knows no such thing.

19:33:50 mircea_popescu: i can use YOUR b.

19:33:54 mircea_popescu: i can use bitstamp's b

19:34:17 mircea_popescu: what now, joejobbing the bitcoin network because we're idiots and we think we can make statements about things we don;'t understand ?

19:35:18 nubbins`: okay, well, let's not get hung up on "know". fact remains that a direct connection has been made between A and B

19:35:25 nubbins`: by the sniffer

19:35:45 nubbins`: this is the essence of dignork's issue

19:35:49 mircea_popescu: where is this sniffer ?

19:35:56 mircea_popescu: bitbet side or user side ?

19:36:03 nubbins`: who cares

19:36:03 dignork: mircea_popescu: bitbet side

19:36:08 nubbins`: both sides

19:36:38 asciilifeform: given that bitbet pumps out unsigned text, there are no sides here

19:36:40 nubbins`: suppose he's in a submarine in the middle of the atlantic

19:37:30 mircea_popescu: i still don't get it.

19:37:44 asciilifeform: the man in the middle can present arbitrary crap instead of what bitbet pumped out.

19:37:52 mircea_popescu: so you ask for an address to bet, and insert an address to receive.

19:38:02 mircea_popescu: this now creates an association, you say ?

19:38:27 asciilifeform: (my observation was about plain theft, rather than de-anonymization)

19:39:27 nubbins`: i do say

19:39:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a barb here. bitbet addresses are rather consecutive if you've noticed.

19:39:46 asciilifeform: so swap out the 'send winnings to' addr

19:40:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the person can trivially verify this.

19:40:06 mircea_popescu: send 1 bitcent first

19:40:10 asciilifeform: while, when bitbet replies, preserve the genuine addr (that user pasted) in the text.

19:40:17 mircea_popescu: that shows you on the site where it thinks btc is going out.

19:41:11 mircea_popescu: so you know, if you're worried, do it like that

19:41:17 mircea_popescu: and you might even catch the rabbit.

19:41:21 asciilifeform: anyone actually do this?

19:41:27 mircea_popescu: if they give a shit they can

19:41:31 mircea_popescu: if they do not they don't have to.

19:41:34 mircea_popescu: perfect security model.

19:41:49 asciilifeform: trivial exercise: pump bitcoin addrs through tor (exits), see what comes out on the other end.

19:41:49 mircea_popescu: at any rate this is why bitbet addresses work the way they do on this score.

19:41:55 mircea_popescu: surely.

19:43:16 mircea_popescu: nubbins` so now address A dirty is connected to A', clean

19:43:24 mircea_popescu: whereas B clean is connected to B; dirty.

19:43:30 mircea_popescu: a loses, b wins. problem solved.

19:45:23 dignork: mircea_popescu: since bet is private, the bet itself is a link between A and B, the fact that bet was established over plaintext makes it not private in general.

19:45:35 mircea_popescu: dignork i was discussing open bets.

19:45:48 nubbins`: i was discussing closed ones :(

19:46:04 nubbins`: anyway, B isn't clean, the sniffer just watched their suspect tell bitbet to pay out to B

19:46:05 mircea_popescu: i dunno where this "closed bets as tumblr" thing started, but it's not so clever.

19:46:19 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you're not paying attention here.

19:46:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2014#520070 <

19:46:55 dignork: mircea_popescu: open bets as tumbler are not usable, since the fee, which contains odds change, is unpredictable

19:46:59 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

19:47:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.01950488 = 0.4096 BTC [-] {5}

19:47:36 mircea_popescu: so pick bets that don't contain odds changes.

19:47:45 dignork: but they can be flatten on a series of bets, so ok, it can work

19:47:48 nubbins`: okay, so the person sniffing traffic just watched me provide two addresses, A' and B', to bitbet

19:47:58 mircea_popescu: why "you" ?

19:47:58 nubbins`: how is that clean?

19:48:12 mircea_popescu: it watched user x with a dirty A provide A'

19:48:12 nubbins`: why not me? anyone

19:48:18 mircea_popescu: and user y with clean B provide B'

19:48:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 75 @ 0.01930035 = 1.4475 BTC [-] {7}

19:49:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.01910042 = 0.1146 BTC [-]

19:49:40 nubbins`: ...oh

19:49:45 nubbins`: i really wasn't paying attention

19:49:47 mircea_popescu: no, the word is d'oh.

19:49:49 benkay: but this thwarts the scammer's desire to launder all their money without having any to begin with.

19:50:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, this isn't so much an exercise in showing how great bitbet is for this purpose, but moreover on how trivial it is to use any properly designed service as a tumbler,

19:50:21 nubbins`: the omission of x vs y in the original statement threw me for a loop

19:50:21 mircea_popescu: and generally how retarded this "taint" bullshit is.

19:50:27 mircea_popescu: there's no taint in bitcoin.

19:51:11 mircea_popescu: thinking otherwise is right out of the book with the flat earth, the perpetuum mobile, the keynesian economics and so on and so forth.

19:51:21 mircea_popescu: mechanical rng, generally the states of sin.

19:52:14 mircea_popescu: who the fuck in his right mind would imagine that a) tor actually serves your anonimity or b) in order to anonimize you create accounts is beyond me.

19:52:19 mircea_popescu: seriously, what is wrong with people.

19:52:47 benkay: fiat thinking takes some time to disloge

19:52:59 Namworld: create accounts?

19:53:00 mircea_popescu: i guess, but srsly...

19:53:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall your piece on professional cattle management industry?

19:53:10 mircea_popescu: Namworld some derpy service, whatever.

19:53:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess I HAVE TO RECALL IT

19:53:23 mircea_popescu: may i live to forget it.

19:53:32 asciilifeform: just as every NYT turd is guaranteed to mention 'mtgox, the premier exchange,...' whenever it runs a piece on btc

19:53:47 asciilifeform: it is just as mandatory to mention 'tor, anonymity...'

19:53:57 mircea_popescu: "tor, anonimity, accounts"

19:54:06 mircea_popescu: ;;google "partidul, ceausescu, romania"

19:54:07 gribble: Partidul Ceausescu Romania !.flv - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gebLd51J2lc; Partidul, Ceausescu, Romania - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz-sl9MpbQY; Partidul Ceausescu Romania - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL57D595807E9852C9

19:54:16 asciilifeform: nobody cancelled herr goebbels, marketing genius

19:54:18 dignork: mircea_popescu: what's wrong with tor providing anonimity? I understand it's not absolute, but still better than nothing, and cheap.

19:54:19 asciilifeform: 'repeat lie'

19:54:33 mircea_popescu: dignork i think the answer is contained in your question.

19:55:56 dignork: mircea_popescu: even lame proxies/vpns provide SOME level of anonimity, the fact that they're obviously not absolute does not make them useless.

19:56:32 mircea_popescu: dignork listen here, if you're trying to not be caught cutting school, going to the bar across the street where kids cutting school go isn't your best bet.

19:56:44 asciilifeform: the creation of the most humble lamer is still an improvement over a professionally-designed honeypot.

19:56:45 mircea_popescu: even if they have these funky hats that sort-of make you invisibly unrecognisable.

19:56:52 asciilifeform: if only because it creates no illusions

19:57:56 asciilifeform: u.s. media is almost a magical oracle of what not do to

19:58:15 asciilifeform: if the puppetmasters were clever, they'd occasionally let something useful and intelligent be printed

19:58:21 asciilifeform: just to mask this fact

19:58:27 mircea_popescu: what, to be just like the soviets ?

19:58:34 mircea_popescu: some progress, please.

19:58:41 asciilifeform: haha

19:59:03 dignork: mircea_popescu: ok, you suggest that mere fact of using tor, singles you. Since Snowden-induced paranoia this might not be a case anymore.

19:59:40 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/#comment-95392

19:59:41 ozbot: Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

19:59:42 mircea_popescu: see there.

19:59:46 asciilifeform: the sheer naivete. do we have to draw a picture here?

20:00:08 mircea_popescu: Mallstromm i hope you're taking notes.

20:00:15 asciilifeform: how long does it take to write a perlturd that tells a planted box which other units in a cage are pumping tor?

20:00:18 asciilifeform: 10 minutes?

20:00:34 asciilifeform: then disks pulled, and the obvious endgame.

20:02:03 davout: why is there no "hitler has coins on gox" video yet

20:02:11 mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone actually pulls disks anymore do they ?

20:02:27 mod6: davout: srsly.

20:02:48 *: mod6 pulls 256 ddms

20:03:18 davout: i'm out, this internet sux

20:03:39 mircea_popescu: see you in boxxy

20:03:51 Apocalyptic: "<m7a> actually, I think right now the entire mtgox issue is pretty relevant to bitcoin as a whole"

20:04:05 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic tell him to read moar fraudsters and stfu ?

20:04:07 Apocalyptic: why on earth would that be relevant ?

20:04:22 dignork: asciilifeform: pulled disk etc. This is a directed attack. I can imagine this picture, patyvans travels all over us,chaina,w/e and pull disks from all tor users. Srsly?

20:04:24 Apocalyptic: #bitcoin is turning reddit

20:05:13 mircea_popescu: a) you don't need all ; b) nobody actually pulls disks anymore.

20:05:15 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, probably wouldn't be able to appreciate what fraudsters has to offer

20:05:49 mircea_popescu: gotta give people a chance.

20:08:10 dignork: mircea_popescu: I read fraudsters, like your writing style and general mindset, it just doesn't mean I have to agree with everything you say

20:08:19 mircea_popescu: absolutely not.

20:15:23 Mallstromm: sure, using Tor singles you out. But if you use it correctly that's all they know - that you are using Tor.

20:15:39 Mallstromm: Of course using Tor on Windoze or OS X is just retarded

20:16:14 Mallstromm: probably modern Windoze and OSX are pumping all the data of somebody using Tor on that systems

20:16:42 Mallstromm: but on a custom linux distro is pretty safe.

20:17:03 Mallstromm: and now seriously: where is Vladimir? We need him to make a "hitler discover his coins are stuck on Gox".

20:18:58 jayk: mtgox is really kicking themselves, now they relocated offices

20:19:30 kakobrekla: physical security mebbe

20:19:44 kakobrekla: protesters almost double daily dont ya know

20:19:59 jayk: with it being so low, once the exchanges resume, i wonder if people will cash out or just let it ride till it climbs back up

20:20:39 jayk: with mtgox, do they hold your coins?

20:20:40 kakobrekla: www.ustream.tv/channel/mtgox-protest

20:20:43 kakobrekla: lmao

20:21:48 kakobrekla: www.mtgoxprotest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/P1030097.jpg

20:22:09 kakobrekla: i dunno whats with the middle guys face, the jacket cleary says "THE NORTH FACE"

20:22:45 kakobrekla: defeats the mask wearing purpose

20:22:46 jayk: lol

20:24:08 Mallstromm: :D

20:24:09 Mallstromm: lol they seem 3 homeless

20:24:17 kakobrekla: they prolly are by now

20:24:27 kakobrekla: i dunno i just find the lappys funny on a protest

20:24:47 kakobrekla: "where is our money?" " oh well, imma gonna play some games now."

20:25:02 mike_c: they aren't playing games, they are day trading on gox

20:25:12 kakobrekla: is there a difference?

20:25:30 lnovy: graphics sucks at mtgox

20:25:48 kakobrekla: gotta preserve dat batter power

20:25:52 lnovy: but gameplay is awesome :)

20:25:52 kakobrekla: battery

20:27:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0627 = 0.1254 BTC [+]

20:33:25 ThickAsThieves: ha lawsky replied to my ergonomic advice

20:33:51 ThickAsThieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ygcil/as_requested_im_ben_lawsky_superintendent_of_the/cfkbz3z?context=3

20:34:21 mircea_popescu: did he tip you ?

20:35:04 ThickAsThieves: nope, but reddit says i can add it to my resume

20:36:27 Bugpowder: that part was funny

20:36:38 Apocalyptic: ^

20:38:19 kakobrekla: so, anything good inthere?

20:38:26 ThickAsThieves: nope

20:43:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.01910042 = 0.4011 BTC [-]

20:44:25 benkay: !t h rent

20:44:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (516 shares, 2.83800000 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (5193 shares, 28.56150000 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (34696 shares, 190.82800000 BTC)

20:45:16 benkay: rentalstarter seems to be in sales rate decay mode

20:50:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.102 BTC [+]

20:50:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 2500 @ 0.00076 = 1.9 BTC [-]

20:51:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00086683 = 10.9221 BTC [-]

20:53:52 TwinWinNerD: What do you guys think is a fair pricing for GoxCoins right now?

20:54:49 kakobrekla: davout was rite.

20:55:16 davout: wat

20:57:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00087009 = 1.7402 BTC [+]

20:57:48 ThickAsThieves: 0.0 is fair price

20:57:57 Namworld: The only thing I regret is moving funds out of MtGox before the issues.

20:58:22 ThickAsThieves: thatll go away

20:58:48 Namworld: People are buying gox BTC for 40%-60% in BTC.

20:58:58 Namworld: ;;premium bitstamp mtgox

20:59:08 Apocalyptic: Namworld, much lower now

20:59:11 davout: kakobrekla: log isn't very informative

20:59:18 Bugpowder: Apocalyptic: NOPE

20:59:27 Namworld: I still see people offering 40% at a minimum.

20:59:34 Bugpowder: 0.5 BTC is the current bid

20:59:35 Bugpowder: https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com

20:59:41 Apocalyptic: I saw a trade at 35%

20:59:47 Namworld: While we can buy BTC for 20% of price at other exchanges.

20:59:50 Bugpowder: it bounced

20:59:54 kakobrekla: davout i was agreeing on you re internet sucks after i saw TwinWinNerDs line.

20:59:57 ThickAsThieves: that book barely moves

21:00:08 Bugpowder: that dude that wired $50k in is gonna do well.

21:00:41 davout: kakobrekla: oic

21:00:45 Bugpowder: 450 coins for $50k sheet.

21:00:51 davout: BingoBoingo: chess?

21:00:54 Bugpowder: wish I had account.

21:00:57 Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, do you believe gox is solvent ?

21:01:01 Bugpowder: sure

21:01:20 Bugpowder: how they fuck could they get the cold wallets drained. It's not plausible

21:01:34 ThickAsThieves: so what's the prediction for the next gox announcement?

21:01:35 Namworld: Even if they aren't. You can sell those 450 goxBTC for 180 BTC or 100k+

21:01:35 kakobrekla: buy all the coins then

21:01:40 Bugpowder: them being incompetent at rolling out a code fix and terrible at communication is.

21:01:54 Bugpowder: I have no account tho

21:02:07 davout: Bugpowder: you get the cold wallets drained by having your accounting fucked with. plain and simple

21:03:11 Bugpowder: Doesn't pass the common sense test

21:03:12 Namworld: Either way, right now having fiat on gox allows to buy 2x the BTC you'd get at other exchanges.

21:03:16 benkay: ^^

21:03:38 kakobrekla: its more like 5x

21:03:39 Namworld: By reselling your gox BTC

21:03:46 davout: Bugpowder: what do you mean the common sense test?

21:03:48 benkay: "BTC"

21:03:56 Namworld: I mean if you sell it for actual, guaranteed BTC

21:03:58 Namworld: x2

21:04:01 Namworld: otherwise, x5

21:04:09 kakobrekla: davout i think he is trying to imply tux has one

21:04:53 ThickAsThieves: next theyll probly say authorities are investigating the malleability exploiters, so many funds and accounts are frozen until resolution

21:05:07 ThickAsThieves: dont worry your coins are safe

21:05:37 ThickAsThieves: freenode has a cold

21:05:42 Bugpowder: The test where you are like... Hey my accounting says I need to pay out 100,000BTC from the wallet and oh hey we have been manually resending 100,000BTC in transactions... And oh hey people have been telling us for months that our specific implementation is vulnerable to a malleability attack... I wonder if something is funky

21:06:33 Bugpowder: There were that many malled txns prior to 2/10 to begin with. Certainly not enough to drain the cold storage

21:06:33 ThickAsThieves: well if you are implying they noticed long ago, why did they not fix it?

21:06:33 Bugpowder: were NOT

21:06:43 ThickAsThieves: why did it escalate before being acknowledged

21:06:45 Bugpowder: I'm not implying

21:06:50 kakobrekla: its no point discussing, take your positions if you can, and wait it out

21:07:05 Bugpowder: It is a known fact that many devs told them their method was vulnerable

21:07:20 mircea_popescu: <Bugpowder> how they fuck could they get the cold wallets drained. It's not plausible << what exactly is not plausible about it ?

21:07:28 Bugpowder: At least according to aantop's latest podcast

21:07:34 ThickAsThieves: <Bugpowder> There were that many malled txns prior to 2/10 to begin with. Certainly not enough to drain the cold storage ... source?

21:07:46 ThickAsThieves: i recall linking charts for at least a week or two before

21:07:56 ThickAsThieves: showing escalating frozen wd's

21:08:02 Apocalyptic: so do I

21:08:04 Bugpowder: yeah, that's all I saw too

21:08:15 Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, common sense would indicate you exactly otherwise

21:08:22 Bugpowder: I just don't think its plausible for them to be that stupid

21:08:35 Bugpowder: but I guess the market thinks differently

21:08:36 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder wait, you are actually buying the "malleable tx" bs ?!~

21:08:55 Bugpowder: I think they lost 10k BTC tops

21:08:56 ThickAsThieves: <Bugpowder> At least according to aantop's latest podcast /// what makes him reputable?

21:08:58 mircea_popescu: dude.

21:09:00 Bugpowder: for MtGox yes

21:09:00 mircea_popescu: THEY STOLE IT.

21:09:05 mircea_popescu: they did not lose anything.

21:09:11 Bugpowder: SR2 stole it

21:09:16 mircea_popescu: sigh.

21:09:28 Apocalyptic: Bugpowder seems like another sturles, mtgox diehard fan

21:09:29 mircea_popescu: looky : tux made the "malleable tx"

21:09:33 mircea_popescu: it's not any third party.

21:09:35 ThickAsThieves: Bugpowder why is an arbitrary amount like 10k reasonable, but not much more?

21:09:39 Apocalyptic: but I may be wrong

21:09:41 ThickAsThieves: pulling number out ass?

21:09:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48001001 BTC [-]

21:09:48 mircea_popescu: it's just the perfect smoke cover, because people suffer from some sort of very particular brain issue.

21:10:02 Bugpowder: If the hypothesis is that mtgox actively embezzled funds... Well that is a possibility.

21:10:09 mircea_popescu: sigh

21:10:10 jborkl: watcging the youtube video of the guy camping and confronting Karpeles, they stole it

21:10:17 jborkl: watching

21:10:37 Bugpowder: But that doesn't make sense. Police care about this shit now

21:10:43 mircea_popescu: o right.

21:10:43 ThickAsThieves: i assume gox committed every crime possible in regards to exploiting their system

21:10:45 Bugpowder: He will go to jail

21:10:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 104 @ 0.00460227 = 0.4786 BTC [-] {2}

21:10:50 mircea_popescu: this is a perfect argument.

21:11:04 mircea_popescu: a guy who has been runing fractional reserve since ~2011, and who has lied on paperwork submitted

21:11:09 mircea_popescu: was NOT going to jail before

21:11:22 jborkl: and I read the report about the txn problems, someone did a blockchain analysis of the Push_whatever attack- the attack started 2 days after Gox got hit

21:11:23 mircea_popescu: and stealing the wallets is totally unreasonable, because he's going to jail.

21:11:30 mircea_popescu: you need a thinking hat.

21:11:32 Bugpowder: He is going to much more jail if he straight plundered it all.

21:11:36 mircea_popescu: derp.

21:11:52 mircea_popescu: he was going to jail anyway.

21:11:53 ThickAsThieves: to hell with him!

21:11:59 mircea_popescu: he didn't have the bitcoinica funds to pay back.

21:12:25 jborkl: That is the proof in the report, it showed there were no malformed txn even reported on the day Gox said

21:12:34 jborkl: let me find it

21:12:41 Bugpowder: show us the data please!

21:12:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48001 BTC [-]

21:12:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00460227 = 0.4602 BTC [-] {2}

21:12:56 Namworld: MtGox reeks of manipulation, purposeful fails and etc.

21:13:20 Namworld: No problem stealing your own business under the eyes of authorities. Right in front of them.

21:13:37 the20year2: New rentalstarter update - We have preliminary acceptance by seller on the 3 unit property. 3 units at $67k

21:13:40 Namworld: Done properly, no evidence. It's quite possible.

21:13:57 mike_c: MPOE market maker uptime since Jan 3: http://i.imgur.com/lwu9eMs.png

21:13:59 ThickAsThieves: i bet it could be forensicly proven gox is manipulating

21:13:59 Namworld: At a minimum, they manipulate price for a profit.

21:14:41 mircea_popescu: mike_c why the pikes ?

21:14:57 mike_c: little blips of up/down time i guess.

21:15:00 Namworld: How? Mark can just claim he had to do all these haltings because of issues.

21:15:00 ThickAsThieves: mike_c, plot it against price

21:15:09 mike_c: price of what?

21:15:18 ThickAsThieves: the index it uses

21:15:23 benkay: actually plot it against implied vol

21:15:30 mircea_popescu: mike_c so either 0 or 1 ?

21:15:33 Namworld: How would one prove that's not the case?

21:15:41 mike_c: yah, 0 is down, 1 is up

21:15:46 benkay: IMPLIED VOL

21:15:54 jborkl: Those are not BTC being traded anyway, they are Gox coins until they prove they have the reserve to back it

21:16:17 mircea_popescu: no way tho, you mean it was down pretty much solid 8 to 10 jan ?

21:16:30 ThickAsThieves: namworld, by analyzing and auditing book behavior

21:16:33 mike_c: yeah, seem nuts? i can check data.

21:16:38 mircea_popescu: it does seem nuts.

21:17:22 mircea_popescu: also definitely was quoting on the 1st of feb

21:17:51 mike_c: kk, disregard, i did some spot checking on downtimes but maybe not enough. i'll verify.

21:18:12 Namworld: TaT, how would that help? I didn't say manipulate through fake orders. Just through haltings, bad news, etc.

21:18:16 mircea_popescu: mike_c is this based on like 1 sampling/day ?

21:18:26 mike_c: polling every 2 minutes

21:18:37 mircea_popescu: so then why 1/0 ?

21:18:51 mike_c: the graph has a 2 minute resolution

21:18:53 mircea_popescu: from that graph it either was down an entire day or up an entire day or some shit

21:19:11 mike_c: no, not all the pikes are on tick marks

21:19:26 mircea_popescu: mike_c it can't possibly have 2 min resolution seeing how you have what, 20 pixels in each day

21:19:31 mircea_popescu: and a day is longer than 40 minutes

21:19:52 ThickAsThieves: namworld you lost me, i'll i'm saying is i bet if the right people spend the right amount of time looking at orders placed and filled, you'd see gox tzking everyone for a ride

21:19:58 davout: mircea_popescu: not for french civil servants

21:20:07 mircea_popescu: lol

21:20:10 Namworld: Perhaps

21:20:32 mike_c: the data has a 2 minute resolution. the graph is obv. somewhat less, but it is taken from that data.

21:20:45 mircea_popescu: so then shouldn't i be seeing averaging ?

21:20:53 mircea_popescu: and consequently, values other than 1 and 0 ?

21:21:03 mike_c: no, it's not bucketed.

21:21:21 mike_c: if you zoomed in on the graph (not the png), you would get to 2 minute resolution

21:21:27 mircea_popescu: look, bucketed or not, this can't be that.

21:21:36 mircea_popescu: hm

21:21:39 mike_c: ok, first off, let me make sure the down/up is accurate in january.

21:21:45 mike_c: brb

21:21:55 mircea_popescu: i'm off for now, but we continue this tomorro.

21:22:00 mike_c: ok

21:22:49 jborkl: One puzzle is that Mt.Gox announced their difficulties on Feb 7, and then explained Feb 10 that they were stopping withdrawals due to a malleability attack. Since the OP_PUSHDATA2 attack didn't start until Feb 9, this attack can't be responsible for the Feb 7 problems. One possibility is there was a different type of malleability attack that affected Mt.Gox. It would be interesting to get the hash

21:22:49 jborkl: for one of the affected transactions from before Feb 7, to see what was going on.

21:23:00 jborkl: now let me find the data that was posted

21:29:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 24 @ 0.05656291 = 1.3575 BTC [-] {6}

21:29:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12896 @ 0.00087011 = 11.2209 BTC [+] {2}

21:30:20 Bugpowder: At first glance, this does not seem encouraging.

21:30:20 Bugpowder: https://blockchain.info/address/1LNWw6yCxkUmkhArb2Nf2MPw6vG7u5WG7q

21:30:59 ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1LNWw6yCxkUmkhArb2Nf2MPw6vG7u5WG7q

21:31:59 davout: jborkl: it's not impossible that the massive "let's fuck with every single tx floating around" isn't the same attack mtgox is referring to

21:32:35 ThickAsThieves: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CABsx9T3%2BTOQ6c7%3DqEhOoc%2BtYSp%3Djba-o8MA3Z8N9t05BDdYS5w%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=bitcoin-development

21:32:36 ozbot: SourceForge.net: Bitcoin: bitcoin-development

21:35:46 Namworld: What's not good with that, Bugpowder?

21:36:36 Bugpowder: The balance is zero

21:36:46 Bugpowder: where are the other mtgox addresses?

21:36:57 Bugpowder: That was the address they sent 500,000BTC to back in 2011.

21:37:22 Bugpowder: https://blockchain.info/address/1DbD7zFjYSQRiATc8dHxWUWSM9YmQYR9JW

21:37:22 ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1DbD7zFjYSQRiATc8dHxWUWSM9YmQYR9JW

21:38:39 jborkl: davout, the person scanned for all transactions that uses op_pushdata, from what I understand that should be very limited to a certain problem being fixed- normally about 40 a day- it was 19 I think on Feb 7th and did not rise until the 10th

21:39:07 Namworld: Is that the MtGox green address?

21:39:44 jborkl: so, it would seem there would have to be two different ways used or Mtgox was super duper special and got hit with a unique attack that was used on no one else

21:39:48 davout: Namworld: green addresses wow

21:40:20 bones`: RIP

21:40:24 Bugpowder: I am downloading the transaction history of that address

21:40:50 Bugpowder: looking for a single big transfer to a putative cold wallet

21:41:28 kakobrekla: >1.) Unfortunately, we don't have a financial report yet. Putting one together is going to be a very time consuming process, and we don't have the time quite yet. Soon though.

21:41:31 kakobrekla: guess who

21:45:11 kakobrekla: well whatever you are no fun

21:45:15 kakobrekla: it goes on

21:45:18 kakobrekla: >2.) The "missing div" period was a result of very bad luck. Right now we don't have any way to prove this, but its what happened.

21:45:25 mike_c: cbtc?

21:45:34 ThickAsThieves: ciphermine?

21:45:34 jborkl: http://www.righto.com/2014/02/the-bitcoin-malleability-attack-hour-by.html

21:45:34 ozbot: Ken Shirriff's blog: The Bitcoin malleability attack graphed hour by hour

21:45:35 kakobrekla: nope!

21:45:38 kakobrekla: and NOPE

21:45:40 jborkl: http://www.righto.com/2014/02/the-bitcoin-malleability-attack-hour-by.html

21:45:41 ozbot: Ken Shirriff's blog: The Bitcoin malleability attack graphed hour by hour

21:45:41 Bugpowder: found the output

21:45:41 Bugpowder: 13faR1RRm9ZkTiQkAnCcbRoajtvNscojEM

21:45:44 kakobrekla: now im dissapoint

21:45:59 mike_c: bitbet?

21:46:06 kakobrekla: now you are trolling

21:46:39 kakobrekla: anyway, its coming from the mouth of new cog pr named samuel

21:46:50 kakobrekla: prolly lab con guy or what

21:48:24 Bugpowder: oh i followed the chain... comes back to 1LNW...

21:49:34 ThickAsThieves: yeah

21:49:37 ThickAsThieves: more clicking

21:59:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] [PAID] 1.80943206 BTC to 321`963 shares, 562 satoshi per share

22:01:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.1023 BTC [+]

22:09:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 665 @ 0.00018897 = 0.1257 BTC [-]

22:13:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.000855 = 0.171 BTC [+]

22:24:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16429 @ 0.00087112 = 14.3116 BTC [+] {3}

22:28:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00292 = 0.146 BTC [-]

22:29:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00460227 = 0.2761 BTC [+] {2}

22:29:06 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 450 @ 0.00226762 = 1.0204 BTC [+]

22:31:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 87 @ 0.00299919 = 0.2609 BTC [+] {2}

22:36:33 kakobrekla: i dont even notice