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Transcript for 20-02-2015, 1322 lines:

00:00:50 danielpbarron: compiling now

00:01:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ipso definitio not sanely.

00:01:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: more along the lines of 'folks shouldn't stay and be sane back on the farm, there's a war on, go to the front'

00:02:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iatrogenic << nah, my money's on a yet unidentified pollutant from industrial practice. something in consumer products, from the shitty gelatin kraft/unilver uses as the basis of all their "products" - really flavoured goop, to soaps plastics w/e.

00:02:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform folks should fight whatever war they feel like.

00:03:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it's a pollutant, it'd have to be one that usa takes in more or less evenly...?

00:03:15 asciilifeform: for instance, the california sv folks don't eat much 'kraft'

00:03:27 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller no, i mean low value idiots who'd gladly suck our cock if only we a) didn't bang hotties and b) validated their self-hottie delusions.

00:03:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform industry is industry. they all use the same thing.

00:03:51 mircea_popescu: you imagine there's any difference between ANY fizzy drink ?

00:03:58 asciilifeform: lol no.

00:03:59 mircea_popescu: (this includes all beers)

00:05:07 asciilifeform: the fizzy drinks and synthetic beers have been around longer than autism, though.

00:05:20 mircea_popescu: look it up.

00:05:46 mircea_popescu: autism starts to move up just about the time warren buffett starts derping about how great wrigley is.

00:06:05 mircea_popescu: it's a by-product of the "Great Industrial Integration" of the late 60s

00:06:09 asciilifeform: more general observation, one explanation of the american attitude to pollutants (the more the merrier) is that it is precisely for the same reason as poettering et al's attitude to software.

00:06:14 danielpbarron: ok i have an executable file named 'u-boot'

00:06:23 asciilifeform: bury folks in an ocean of shit - no blame can be assigned

00:06:29 asciilifeform: or so the perpetrator assumes.

00:06:37 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron wd.

00:06:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's certainly damned hard to fish through the soup currently.

00:07:22 asciilifeform: and it isn't as if you can craft a mouse model for autism.

00:07:27 mircea_popescu: right.

00:07:38 danielpbarron: is this the same file i can write to /dev/mtd0 ?

00:07:44 mircea_popescu: but incidentally : girl bought 'dijon mustard' by kraft. made to mimic actual legitimate producers.

00:07:55 mircea_popescu: immediately tasted the telltale bitter back of mouth aftertaste.

00:08:02 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: gotta use the util. described in the original article. it sets the ecc bits in the eeprom

00:08:07 mircea_popescu: ALL THEIR FUCKING SHIT is made out of the same goop, with flavourings.

00:08:29 danielpbarron: nandwrite ?

00:08:35 asciilifeform: aha

00:09:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where i live, the synthetic food is conveniently shelved in another (by far largest) section of the store than the mostly-correct (to look, feel, and taste) variant

00:09:38 mircea_popescu: from persil to bosco

00:10:34 asciilifeform: the vendors aren't really trying to mimic the genuine article.

00:11:06 asciilifeform: it is entirely clear to the naked eye (no need to open the seal) where the identical goop is.

00:12:24 asciilifeform: (aside from logo, geometrically regular packages with no expiration date or date in distant future, proximity to other similar products on the shelf, and - above all - cost closer to what one might expect of motor fuel than food)

00:12:59 asciilifeform: this says nothing on the question of contaminants found in 'proper' food in same shop, but i did want to point out that the two fundamentally different things are shelved separately

00:13:08 asciilifeform: and there can be no confusion between them, imho

00:16:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.0004269 = 1.9851 BTC [+]

00:17:18 danielpbarron: d'oh i'm dumb; it's in /usr/sbin/

00:20:21 mircea_popescu: mebbe.

00:21:14 mircea_popescu: in practical terms, however, most people eat pre-produced stuff, either at home or in a "restaurant"

00:21:48 mircea_popescu: from mcdo to tgi or w/e.

00:23:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whatever it is, u.s. folks from 'high society' obsessed with 'natural product' are getting their fair share of it - or more.

00:23:51 mircea_popescu: myeah.

00:24:40 asciilifeform: the ones who wouldn't be 'caught dead' at, e.g., 'mcdonald's'

00:25:24 mircea_popescu: there is the occasional shop that's competent, but by and large the label offers no protection.

00:25:30 mircea_popescu: much like college degrees offer no guarantee

00:25:52 danielpbarron: i've got two examples of writing uboot and they use different flags and different start addresses

00:26:08 mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/435f263d9395e1e89a50eb313d407074/tumblr_ng2gwf5YGA1rne0mao1_500.jpg for teh lulz.

00:26:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AOebNG )

00:26:25 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: flags and start addresses !?!

00:26:32 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: it goes right on top of the old uboot

00:26:37 asciilifeform: mtd0

00:26:39 danielpbarron: /tmp/nandwrite /dev/mtd0 /tmp/uboot.2014.07-tld-1.pogo_v4.mtd0.kwb

00:27:01 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you want to erase the nand, yes

00:27:05 danielpbarron: /usr/sbin/nandwrite -p -s 0x100000 /dev/mtd0 /tmp/uboot.bin

00:27:11 asciilifeform: if you omit the block count, it does the whole partition.

00:27:32 asciilifeform: nononono

00:27:40 asciilifeform: flash_erase /dev/mtd1 0

00:27:47 asciilifeform: well, mtd0

00:27:49 asciilifeform: in this case

00:28:02 asciilifeform: and then,

00:28:12 cazalla: this food talk reminds me of current hysteria of hepatitis a laden frozen berries from china doing the rounds here in australia, many people such, much surprise for some reason.. while on holidays, i spot the same shit in my parents freezer, advise em that they might not wanna eat this but get met with abuse, you think you know everything response.. a month later, hep a scare! so sweet lulz

00:28:13 asciilifeform: nandwrite -p /dev/mtd0 whatever

00:28:18 danielpbarron: and i can use the flash_erase and nandwrite that come on the stock pogo?

00:28:33 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: can

00:28:39 danielpbarron: should*?

00:28:44 asciilifeform: or build'em on whatever you're running

00:28:47 asciilifeform: they're fairly low-tech

00:28:51 danielpbarron: :O

00:29:54 cazalla: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/ohp-hep-A-media-1-frozen-berry.htm of course, people are now calling for proper labelling but apparently no can do due to trade agreements, guess people must eat their shit berries and be content

00:29:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17igpr8 )

00:30:13 mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the poloplug ranch http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kwh6sgckoV1qa258ao1_1280.jpg

00:30:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17igqvb )

00:30:38 asciilifeform: lol!

00:30:40 asciilifeform: what even.

00:32:58 asciilifeform: http://www.slideserve.com/saber/programming-in-the-small-c-c-java-pitfalls-ada-benefits << interesting - for aficionados of 'underhanded c' also

00:33:00 assbot: Programming in the Small: C/C++/Java Pitfalls & Ada Benefits - Franco Gaspe... ... ( http://bit.ly/17igBGT )

00:33:15 asciilifeform: puts some light on why there will never be an 'underhanded ada' contest.

00:35:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36616 @ 0.0004269 = 15.6314 BTC [+]

00:40:27 mircea_popescu: "But it's the wealth gap that we should be worried about, soon to be greatly increased. Wealth gaps mean feudalism. They mean, on the one hand, universal healthcare-- everyone gets the same; on the other hand, flow chart medicine-- since everyone gets the same, let's just make a flowchart. It also means mental health parity, which is really a way to funnel the poor into the only outlet we have to deal with their rage

00:40:27 mircea_popescu: : psychiatry. "

00:40:34 mircea_popescu: heh. tlp has a poor man's view of rich people.

00:40:57 mircea_popescu: call me when they fill up a ranch with young fillies collected from detroit. then they may be rich in the feudal sense of powerful.

00:41:05 asciilifeform: not too many poor folks with a 'rich man's view' of rich

00:45:33 asciilifeform: re: autism pollutant: when i tell folks that north kr is a unique planetary resource whose (very likely) disappearance could turn out to be an extinction-level catastrophe - they make monkey noises

00:45:35 asciilifeform: but this is why.

00:46:04 asciilifeform: if it takes a batshit king and world's thickest minefield to keep out 'mcdonalds', it might yet turn out to be worth it.

00:47:44 asciilifeform: sometimes, 'sanity' - as in, nash-equilibrium behaviour - is death.

00:47:50 asciilifeform: and 'insanity' - life.

00:49:39 asciilifeform: think of it as 'airgap' from civilization.

01:00:23 ben_vulpes: good evening

01:02:29 asciilifeform: 'Platinum - also called platina is the heaviest substance but one (see No. 47) known, having a specific gravity of fully 21, which may be raised to about 21.5 by hammering.' - Encyclopaedia of Practical Receipts and Processes. William B. Dick, 1872. << mega-vintage-l0l

01:03:18 *: asciilifeform wonder how much pre-atomic chemistry remains quietly in circulation to this day, in various 'practical' works

01:05:38 ben_vulpes: there are always those water-fueled cars...

01:05:49 asciilifeform: not speaking of pseudoscience as such

01:06:10 asciilifeform: but notions like the above, that actually trace descent to late pre-atomic state of the art

01:06:58 asciilifeform: actually strike that.

01:07:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 125 @ 0.01177323 = 1.4717 BTC [+] {4}

01:07:12 asciilifeform: turns out in english 'specific gravity' == density

01:07:27 asciilifeform: and so entirely reasonable to ask to hammer. just odd phrasing

01:07:44 ben_vulpes: ;;calc .5/21

01:07:44 gribble: 0.0238095238095

01:07:53 ben_vulpes: but a 2 percent increase?

01:08:38 asciilifeform: can anyone tell me if Pt forms a hydride in nature?

01:08:49 *: ben_vulpes shakes his head sadly

01:08:58 asciilifeform: can anyone guess why this has to be asked

01:09:22 *: ben_vulpes doesn't guess. knows or doesn't.

01:10:17 ben_vulpes: but i would like to know.

01:10:39 asciilifeform: if i recall, abundance of 'heavy water' (D2O) on earth is around 0.0003

01:11:37 asciilifeform: eh, nm again, it was palladium deuteride not platinum, that fuses if hammered.

01:11:46 *: asciilifeform off to get some rest

01:12:11 ben_vulpes: <NewLiberty> [] USD will kill USD, even without XBT << xbt lol

01:12:18 ben_vulpes: everyone and their custom phrasing

01:17:23 ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> [] Xuthus: and who would you be ? << that guy who broke his dick, right?

01:17:34 ben_vulpes: uses a new nick now for reasons?

01:19:39 mircea_popescu: no?

01:20:01 ben_vulpes: a no.

01:20:02 ben_vulpes: my mistake.

01:20:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59500 @ 0.000421 = 25.0495 BTC [-] {2}

01:23:41 mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/64cdf852d93b8cd579e950efb42d20a9/tumblr_nav669ULIl1se6ghyo1_1280.jpg << i think she's trying to debug his pulseaudio.

01:23:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FAmo9w )

01:23:55 ben_vulpes: hahaha

01:25:34 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell PeterL get moar pixels

01:25:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:28:13 ben_vulpes: "fascicle" << new word for me today

01:29:17 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] pollution is my guess. << "you don't need to make up and over fit models to convince me that the silicon fabrication process is realrealreal bad for life on planet earth"

01:30:23 danielpbarron: http://blog.cylance.com/author/brian-wallace << i went to school with this guy / haven't talked to him in years

01:30:25 assbot: Blog | Cylance ... ( http://bit.ly/1FAnBO4 )

01:36:09 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] the fizzy drinks and synthetic beers have been around longer than autism, though. << what on earth is synthetic beer!?

01:38:10 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] there is the occasional shop that's competent, but by and large the label offers no protection. << nice thing about growing up proximate to actual farm land worked by actual humans is the learned skill of being able to nix Cisco-vendors after a single visit.

01:38:22 ben_vulpes: to all of the ex-californians, a french fry is a french fry is a french fry.

01:38:32 danielpbarron: they use hfcs in most big name beers

01:38:42 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: good grief

01:39:12 ben_vulpes: i don't even drink beer anymore

01:39:21 *: danielpbarron either

01:39:26 ben_vulpes: this vile stout of convenience aside

01:39:27 ben_vulpes: bad shits

01:44:40 mike_c: what an asshole:

01:44:46 mike_c: !gettrust crypto/quo

01:44:47 assbot: Trust relationship from user mike_c to user crypto/quo: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/mike_c/crypto%2Fquo | http://w.b-a.link/user/crypto%2Fquo

01:44:58 mike_c: who puts a goddamn forward slash in their nick

01:46:35 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all us beer

01:46:45 mircea_popescu: coca cola flavoured as "beer"

01:46:54 ben_vulpes: mike_c: ask nubbins`

01:47:02 mike_c: backtick is easier!

01:47:29 mike_c: note kako's wot links don't work for him

01:47:30 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: dunno about 'all'.

01:47:53 ben_vulpes: would believe 'anything from busch et al'

01:48:01 mircea_popescu: well, put it another way : if tax was paid on it it necessarily sucks, because well... it couldn't not suck and stay competitive.

01:48:11 TheNewDeal: ;;ticker

01:48:13 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 240.7, Best ask: 241.79, Bid-ask spread: 1.09000, Last trade: 240.7, 24 hour volume: 9188.93705848, 24 hour low: 235.59, 24 hour high: 245.01, 24 hour vwap: 240.188239723

01:48:33 mircea_popescu: so sure, w/e your microbrewing friend gave you in exchange for those two 6 yos you kidnapped is prolly drinkable.

01:50:40 ben_vulpes: i don't think you've seen beer prices around here lately.

01:51:04 ben_vulpes: the delta between ye olde mass markete pricing and the locally made swill is on the order of 200-300%

01:51:16 ben_vulpes: which affords for tax without hfcs

01:51:20 decimation: asciilifeform: one way or another, iatrogenic. you can take that to the bank. << who knows, maybe it comes from giving out antibiotics like candy

01:51:48 trinque: plenty of excellent microbrew in the pac NW

01:52:17 asciilifeform: 200-300% << and more

01:52:36 mircea_popescu: jesus this free speech thing i can't even force a point beyond all reason without you people oppressing my metaphordisphoria

01:52:56 asciilifeform: but one could argue that at a certain point it is an irresistible temptation to the sc4mz0rz, rather than guarantee of genuine article

01:53:03 decimation: asciilifeform: the vendors aren't really trying to mimic the genuine article. << no, they optimize on 'sales'

01:53:49 asciilifeform: also worth noting that sc4mf00dz are not new

01:54:08 asciilifeform: were a problem, to some extent, even in late medieval times

01:54:23 asciilifeform: (as described in, e.g., sebastian brandt's 'ship of fools')

01:55:22 asciilifeform: the encyclopaedia i mentioned earlier today (1872) contained innumerable recipes for useful things, but also for faux honey, sham ass's milk (yes), and a thousand other fakeries

01:56:07 asciilifeform: what -is- relatively new is the near-total loss of access to actual food for quite a few folks.

01:56:15 decimation: asciilifeform: you gonna mine the seafloor for Pt?

01:56:32 asciilifeform: decimation: was a failed line of thought re: densities

01:56:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not new at all. recall "david copperfield" - "with actual sugar on top!11"

01:56:46 mircea_popescu: london's poor ate belts for centuries.

01:56:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55517 @ 0.00042208 = 23.4326 BTC [+] {2}

01:57:00 decimation: also they drank shit-water from the thames

01:57:04 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> jesus this free speech thing i can't even force a point beyond all reason without you people oppressing my metaphordisphoria << it's for the logs :P

01:57:04 asciilifeform: boil belt, boil accordion, etc

01:57:49 ben_vulpes: no implications may go unspoken

01:57:53 ben_vulpes: no jokes may go unexplained

01:57:58 ben_vulpes: less the children of tomorrow not get it

01:58:02 ben_vulpes: lest*

01:58:13 ben_vulpes: that's the rationale, right?

02:00:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 100 @ 0.08996019 = 8.996 BTC [-] {5}

02:00:38 trinque: ben_vulpes: childen of tomorrow wont be able to read

02:00:41 decimation: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/history/48176-18th-century-london-its-daily.html < " In 1771, Tobias Smollet wrote, "If I would drink water, I must quaff the mawkish contents of an open aqueduct, exposed to all manner of defilement, or swallow that which comes from the River Thames, impregnated with all the filth of London and Westminster. Human excrement is the least offensive part of the concrete, which is composed of all the drugs,

02:00:46 assbot: 18th Century London - its daily life and hazards. ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkBEng )

02:00:46 decimation: minerals, and poisons used in mechanics and manufacture, enriched with the putrefying carcases of beasts and men, and mixed with the scourings of all the wash-tubs, kennels and common sewers within the bills of mortality." (5)"

02:02:02 mike_c: an open aqueduct is mawkish? you mean.. like a river?

02:02:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68044 @ 0.00041844 = 28.4723 BTC [-] {2}

02:02:50 trinque: heh, now it's fracking chemicals and recycled pharmeceutical piss

02:03:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72685 @ 0.00041291 = 30.0124 BTC [-] {2}

02:04:24 decimation: http://www.brunel-museum.org.uk/shop2/the-brunels-tunnel/ << Herr Brunel dug underneath the filth to achieve one of his great engineering feats

02:04:28 assbot: The Brunel Museum » The Brunels’ Tunnel ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkC4dq )

02:07:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34092 @ 0.00041133 = 14.0231 BTC [-]

02:08:47 ben_vulpes: mike_c, decimation: the feds and CH2MHILL are going to cover our historic open reservoirs.

02:08:53 ben_vulpes: because "a parasite!!!1!"

02:09:21 ben_vulpes: nevermind the radon and bacterial buildup that closed reservoirs entail

02:09:23 ben_vulpes: also

02:09:29 ben_vulpes: subject of irc.serenissima.butts

02:09:32 ben_vulpes: https://unstable.systems/

02:09:34 assbot: Unstable Systems ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkCtfS )

02:10:14 decimation: what? what parasite

02:11:15 ben_vulpes: cryptosporidium protozoa iirc

02:11:21 ben_vulpes: perhaps not a parasite

02:11:24 ben_vulpes: ianab etc

02:13:04 decimation: this thing > http://koin.com/2014/05/20/powell-butte-ii-reservoir-design-contract-balloons/

02:13:05 assbot: Powell Butte II reservoir design contract balloons | KOIN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ev4BNn )

02:16:36 danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> so sure, w/e your microbrewing friend gave you << or my brother :D he even makes his own yeast cultures

02:16:53 mircea_popescu: cool

02:16:59 danielpbarron: that beer, i'd drink

02:18:26 danielpbarron: SetBestChain: new best=000000000000000007e4 height=344301 work=5843887003250562996213694 date=02/20/15 02:14:19

02:18:29 danielpbarron: SetBestChain: 3 of last 100 blocks above version 2

02:26:44 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/02/gchq-pcs-harvesting-intercept-15-0219.pdf << the thing behind the sim card lulzies earlier today

02:27:20 asciilifeform: ( http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2015#1024948 and below )

02:27:20 assbot: Logged on 19-02-2015 20:48:27; ascii_field: great sim heist << transparent nsa smokescreen. gsm uses toy crypto since day one (usg mandate) and has always been breakable with minimal effort.

02:28:43 danielpbarron: https://blockchain.info/blocks/Bitcoin%20Affiliate%20Network << this miner is using the new version

02:28:45 assbot: Recent blocks Found By Bitcoin Affiliate Network ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkDFjm )

02:29:09 asciilifeform: did someone expect that no such thing would ever appear ?

02:29:10 asciilifeform: or what.

02:29:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.0004237 = 19.1936 BTC [+] {2}

02:29:44 danielpbarron: just making note is all; it's interesting to me

02:30:06 asciilifeform: depending on how much self-restraint the idiots have, it may even turn out that all usg-sponsored miners will run (or claim to run) 0.10

02:30:38 asciilifeform: the only true 'acid test' is an actual hardfork.

02:30:57 asciilifeform: anyone can harmlessly change a version constant.

02:34:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.aholme.co.uk/Mk1/Architecture.htm << example of modern discrete logic machine. (there are many. common amateur project. but, afaik, nothing remotely large enough for, e.g., a bitcoin node.)

02:35:00 assbot: Mark 1 FORTH Computer ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkE2KJ )

02:35:34 mircea_popescu: they prolly should wotify jus' in case...

02:44:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32450 @ 0.00040807 = 13.2419 BTC [-]

02:45:24 decimation: for even more ancient warez, you might as well reinvent the original stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5P5faf7478

02:45:25 assbot: Colossus - Operational at Bletchley - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkECIu )

02:47:03 TheNewDeal: thanks for taking time to write that hard drive article ascii

02:52:48 danielpbarron: i got a bunch of warnings, but i seem to have my own nandwrite and flash_erase compiled from this source -> ftp://ftp.infradead.org/pub/mtd-utils/

02:53:27 danielpbarron: i'm not anywhere near skilled enough to check that source for badness though

02:53:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44528 @ 0.00041137 = 18.3175 BTC [+]

03:01:39 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/this-is-how-social-media-failed/

03:02:21 decimation: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/kampf-gegen-rechts-ein-volk-von-antifaschisten-13429214.html < "Nichts tut so gut wie das Gefühl, gegen Rechts zu kämpfen."

03:02:22 assbot: Kampf gegen Rechts: Ein Volk von Antifaschisten - Inland - FAZ ... ( http://bit.ly/1vkFq03 )

03:02:46 decimation: "nothing feels as good as fighting rightists

03:11:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6409 @ 0.00041137 = 2.6365 BTC [+]

03:14:03 asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: glad you liked it

03:14:41 asciilifeform: TheNewDeal et al: if the chance comes again, i'll write another.

03:14:53 asciilifeform: that particular piece was by request from BingoBoingo.

03:15:28 decimation: "Jeder, der ein rohes Hühnerei in die Demo wirft, darf sich einmal fühlen wie Stauffenberg im Kampf gegen Hitler - doch der Vergleich hinkt: Stauffenberg war ja auch irgendwie Rechts, oder?" < Anyone who throws a raw egg in the demonstration may once feel like Stauffenberg in the fight against Hilter - but the comparison is misleading - Stauffenberg was kind of a rightist [Nazi, fascist] too?

03:20:21 decimation: "Und das jährliche Turnier „Golf gegen Rechts“ hat sich um den „New Golf Award 2015“ beworben. Ausgezeichnet werden dabei die innovativsten Ideen für ein neues Golf-Turnier." < the annual "golf against the rightists" tournament has been awared the "new golf award 2015" for the most innovative idea for a new golf tournament.

03:21:23 asciilifeform: ^ there's got to be some kind of 'parody event horizon crossing' prize this could win.

03:22:16 decimation: yeah

03:23:56 decimation: the modern germans have become a parody of a parody of an anti-nazi poster

03:27:03 decimation: of course, the fact that no actual nazis exist (nor the fact that nearly every modern german has a nazi ancestor) doesn't stop them from using it to prop up their vote-banks

03:32:17 mircea_popescu: <decimation> "nothing feels as good as fighting rightists << somebody's bound to sooner or later discover sexual intimacy and move on.

03:34:05 mircea_popescu: ""No sex with Nazis"

03:34:05 mircea_popescu: In addition, anti-fascism was never to have as cheap as today. Previously, he could cost you your life, today it costs no more than lip service among peers - and heard to this, the exclusive circle of the upright, decent, brave. The fighters against law form the peerage of enlightened society. Or even a shot polemical: Here is an indulgence trade takes place; the moral superiority can be acquired simply by joining the

03:34:05 mircea_popescu: fight against right."

03:34:06 mircea_popescu: win.

03:34:49 mircea_popescu: The repertoire is considerable: There is the rock against law and rapping against the Right, of course, sing and cry against law, but also against the right costumes and football games against law. The "Green Youth" in Hamburg regularly invites to "Celebrate against law," a political deal, which is by the way very well received by young people, and the children of the class 7b of Augustin-Wibbelt High School in Warendo

03:34:49 mircea_popescu: rf even dancing against law - early practice only makes me be an anti-fascist. The other hand, is difficult to measure the success of the courageous campaign of the DGB youth in Dortmund: "No sex with Nazis." And possibly mix different motivations in Berlin Initiative "According to fuck each law."

03:34:59 mircea_popescu: srsly google totally proves poe's law.

03:36:05 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/1635233428e38f163e5fcbc6147ed52c/tumblr_nct5qyru8Y1s9l8ylo2_400.gif

03:36:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GagCZy )

03:38:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70800 @ 0.00040631 = 28.7667 BTC [-] {3}

03:39:03 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah I figured you would like that

03:39:16 decimation: "I can be a slut - it's okay as long as I don't fuck a nazi!"

03:58:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00041888 = 20.1481 BTC [+] {3}

04:00:49 mircea_popescu: weren't nazis gay anyway ?

04:05:46 decimation: well, didn't Goebbels have kids for his wife to poison?

04:19:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dairy farm ?

04:20:17 ben_vulpes: there are all kinds of fluids in that gif

04:20:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44850 @ 0.00042757 = 19.1765 BTC [+] {2}

04:20:39 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there are many fluids at a dairy farm, even if only one is packaged for sale

04:20:57 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: http://www.aholme.co.uk/Mk1/Architecture.htm << ah goodness hardware implementations of forth and lisp make me wish for a fueled rocket

04:20:58 assbot: Mark 1 FORTH Computer ... ( http://bit.ly/19GBInV )

04:21:21 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and in yourself, myself...

04:22:00 asciilifeform: the inevitable question is, was the milk sold.

04:23:26 decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/02/daniel_sumner_o.html > "I just have to mention that I once saw a hearing on this on TV and I was paying attention, for a while, because I thought this would be good for my class; ... But the high point of this, which made it all worthwhile, was one of the Senators asked the milk person why milk was treated so differently from every other product. And there was an awkward silence. And of course

04:23:27 assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/17iAQ7w )

04:23:27 decimation: the real reason is because of politics; and we're going to get to that in a second. But the person had to say something. He couldn't just say, 'Because I'm politically important.' Or, 'My state is politically important.' Or whatever it was. So, he said,' Well, milk is special.' And the Senator, who was not from a milk state, said,' Why?' And the witness had a problem there. He had to think of something. So he said, 'Well, milk's bulky.'

04:23:29 decimation: "

04:23:33 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: or drunk

04:28:06 ben_vulpes: good evening pete_dooce

04:30:31 ben_vulpes: ;;seen artifexd

04:30:32 gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <artifexd> Go

04:38:33 pete_dushenski: decimation lol loved that milk line

04:42:15 decimation: milk is bulky, so give us money

04:43:12 decimation: another good one from the same podcast: " A man named Northly[?] came--he was the Executive Vice President of the North Carolina Peanut Association. Wonderful guy. He stood up as this conference was ending, and he said, 'Let me tell you about the peanut program. There's only two people in America who understand how the peanut program works. It's my job to keep it that way.'"

04:47:20 pete_dushenski: then 30 years later: "i never said that, but it sounds like me!"

04:51:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50032 @ 0.00042772 = 21.3997 BTC [+]

05:02:08 thestringpuller: http://venturebeat.com/2015/02/19/bitcoin-can-get-you-illegal-drugs-but-a-game-developer-is-using-it-to-redefine-digital-ownership/ << these niggas never learn

05:18:12 cazalla: thestringpuller, what's wrong with using it for a card game like hearthstone?

05:32:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41472 @ 0.00042431 = 17.597 BTC [-]

05:36:35 thestringpuller: cazalla: "To get the in-game economy going, EverdreamSoft plans to sell 70,000,000 BitCrystals, which is the premium currency used in Spells of Genesis to forge card packs or new items." << sounds like ethereum nonsense

05:44:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00042706 = 6.1924 BTC [+] {2}

05:49:31 thestringpuller: !t m s.qntr

05:49:32 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00028529 / 0.00028529 / 0.00028529 (22381 shares, 6.39 BTC), 30D: 0.000175 / 0.00025036 / 0.00028529 (50436 shares, 12.63 BTC)

05:49:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61000 @ 0.00041859 = 25.534 BTC [-] {2}

05:58:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00042772 = 7.2926 BTC [+]

06:04:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34977 @ 0.0004111 = 14.379 BTC [-] {2}

06:16:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68028 @ 0.00042772 = 29.0969 BTC [+]

06:32:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27541 @ 0.00042832 = 11.7964 BTC [+]

06:57:16 cazalla: thestringpuller, ah so more a kickstarter than an actual game

06:58:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38305 @ 0.00041109 = 15.7468 BTC [-]

07:02:16 ben_vulpes: call me when no debit cards are involved

07:02:52 ben_vulpes: it reeks of wankery at this point, but eulora is the only btc-only game in town

07:03:52 ben_vulpes: cultismo

07:11:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00040837 = 5.5947 BTC [-]

07:24:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00040837 = 25.9723 BTC [-]

07:38:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40700 @ 0.00040531 = 16.4961 BTC [-] {2}

07:44:21 punkman: http://blog.wizsec.jp/2015/02/mtgox-investigation-release.html

07:44:23 assbot: WizSec: MtGox investigation update and preliminary release ... ( http://bit.ly/1AbOlB3 )

08:04:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00040646 = 2.0526 BTC [+]

08:07:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62950 @ 0.00041078 = 25.8586 BTC [+] {2}

08:14:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31471 @ 0.00040509 = 12.7486 BTC [-]

08:15:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5529 @ 0.00040367 = 2.2319 BTC [-]

08:26:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16593 @ 0.00040367 = 6.6981 BTC [-]

08:27:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22122 @ 0.00040367 = 8.93 BTC [-]

08:28:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28785 @ 0.00040336 = 11.6107 BTC [-]

08:33:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66485 @ 0.00040334 = 26.8161 BTC [-] {2}

08:34:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107315 @ 0.00040177 = 43.1159 BTC [-] {2}

08:35:40 BingoBoingo: !up saifedean

08:35:56 saifedean: good morning, folks, it's been too long

08:36:21 BingoBoingo: it has

08:37:03 saifedean: so our conversation last time has gotten me to dig up the old heretic PhD and clean it up into a shorter readable paper with most the interesting bits

08:37:31 saifedean: and it is now posted here: http://capitalism.columbia.edu/files/ccs/Saifedean%20Ammous_Working%20Paper%2085_Energy%20Systems%20and%20the%20Knowledge%20Problem.pdf

08:37:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zSwE4Q )

08:37:38 saifedean: in pdf

08:40:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15778 @ 0.00040137 = 6.3328 BTC [-] {2}

08:42:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32300 @ 0.00039791 = 12.8525 BTC [-]

08:43:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56200 @ 0.00039711 = 22.3176 BTC [-] {2}

08:44:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68422 @ 0.00039653 = 27.1314 BTC [-]

08:57:52 BingoBoingo: cool

09:08:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24778 @ 0.00039653 = 9.8252 BTC [-]

09:09:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165174 @ 0.00038877 = 64.2147 BTC [-] {2}

09:10:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12698 @ 0.00038499 = 4.8886 BTC [-]

09:10:49 BingoBoingo: !up saifedean

10:02:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00038947 = 3.2131 BTC [+]

10:26:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54050 @ 0.00038499 = 20.8087 BTC [-]

11:01:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36441 @ 0.00039425 = 14.3669 BTC [+] {2}

11:04:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00040017 = 22.9698 BTC [+] {2}

11:19:20 punkman: https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150206-crispr-dna-editor-bacteria/

11:19:22 assbot: CRISPR Natural History in Bacteria | Quanta Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1GbfPrB )

11:29:25 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/seals-with-clubs-shutters/

11:29:25 assbot: Seals With Clubs Shutters | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gbhltx )

11:31:10 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/seals-with-clubs-shutters/

12:14:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101250 @ 0.00038694 = 39.1777 BTC [-] {2}

12:24:12 dignork: pete_dushenski: /q fluffypony

12:24:24 dignork: emm, sorry

12:24:48 fluffypony: lol

12:24:51 fluffypony: what did I do wrong now?

12:24:53 fluffypony: :-P

12:25:43 dignork: my bad, tried to pm you, but garbage in buffer turned command into noise on channel

12:26:15 fluffypony: lol

12:26:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66600 @ 0.00038335 = 25.5311 BTC [-] {2}

12:31:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00038966 = 5.8449 BTC [+]

12:47:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44734 @ 0.00040256 = 18.0081 BTC [+] {3}

12:54:34 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

12:54:39 gribble: Current Blocks: 344383 | Current Difficulty: 4.44554159623438E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 344735 | Next Difficulty In: 352 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47222879455.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.22526

12:57:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45100 @ 0.00040847 = 18.422 BTC [+] {2}

13:18:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13481 @ 0.0004086 = 5.5083 BTC [+]

13:20:11 danielpbarron: height=210431 vs height=186701

13:23:08 punkman: http://digiday.com/platforms/youtube-moves-outside-overlay-ads/

13:23:09 assbot: YouTube makes a move against brand-sponsored videos ... ( http://bit.ly/1DA5lna )

13:23:51 punkman: how dare you not use adcents

13:27:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 28 @ 0.0890647 = 2.4938 BTC [-] {6}

13:27:34 mats: Fun fact: Lenovo has been shipping adware for years, with silent remote upgrades over HTTP. Adding a MITM cert is their idea of being less intrusive than showing popup ads during powerpoint presentations.

13:28:11 mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-09-2014#828180 << dated five months ago

13:28:11 assbot: Logged on 13-09-2014 11:58:12; mats_cd03: fun fact: a piece of lenovo windows crapware downloads an xml file over http then downloads and executes windows platform-specific binary.

13:28:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 60 @ 0.08505666 = 5.1034 BTC [-] {9}

13:47:01 []bot: Bet placed: 3.6908 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before April 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1119/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 13.4909 BTC. Current weight: 85,070.

13:48:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.0004086 = 15.1591 BTC [+]

13:52:43 mats: http://overthewire.org/wargames/blacksun/reading_material.html some exploitation writeups

13:52:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CSnN5e )

13:55:40 jurov: mats, i got only dead links there

13:55:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19900 @ 0.00039515 = 7.8635 BTC [-]

14:22:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66661 @ 0.00039745 = 26.4944 BTC [+] {2}

14:37:28 mircea_popescu: instead of good morning, http://31.media.tumblr.com/d9633e0f5099c46446ee130090091b05/tumblr_n0it08UykX1rfcxy6o1_400.gif

14:37:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5lBFt )

14:42:00 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: it reeks of wankery at this point, but eulora is the only btc-only game in town << srsly.

14:42:37 mircea_popescu: saifedean: in pdf << BingoBoingo you got that pdf converter thing anymore ?

14:42:56 BingoBoingo: http://document.online-convert.com/convert-to-txt

14:42:57 assbot: Convert documents to TXT ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5lQ38 )

14:43:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74179 @ 0.00039264 = 29.1256 BTC [-] {3}

14:43:49 mircea_popescu: ty!

14:43:53 mircea_popescu: so anyone wants to make a poker site ?

14:45:34 dignork: mircea_popescu: I'd love to, but currently I fail to see how to handle collusion, if player's identity is not WoT based

14:46:14 mircea_popescu: dignork to that problem i have a solution./

14:46:44 mircea_popescu: all that's needed really is an excellent coder willing to admin it long term.

14:46:46 BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch

14:46:56 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/the-superfish-funder-list/

14:47:20 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell saifadean why is it feb 2015 ?!

14:47:20 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:47:30 mircea_popescu: a new posting, i see.

14:47:39 dignork: mircea_popescu: collusion is discovered in the long run, afer the fact, f you can't ban/punish the player, code quality won't help :(

14:48:08 dignork: you could require an escrow for each player though

14:48:24 mircea_popescu: dude, if i tell you it's solved... what, want me to pay you an escrow on it ?

14:49:24 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: height=210431 vs height=186701 << is it about 10k a day or am i sorely misreading the numbers ?

14:50:14 mircea_popescu: "A YouTube representative called this revision a clarification of its existing policy, one that occurred late last year, intended to prevent advertiser conflicts and ensure viewers don?t feel bombarded by ads. Paul Kontonis, executive director of the Global Online Video Association, however framed it as an explicit change that prevents YouTube stars and multichannel networks from working prominent sponsor logos and i

14:50:14 mircea_popescu: mages into their videos without handing Google a cut of the revenue."

14:50:22 dignork: nah, the site should be self-sufficient imho, but I'd love to hear the solution though :)

14:50:32 mircea_popescu: the fucking lesson of "do not create content on a platorm you don't control" is never being learned is it.

14:52:35 BingoBoingo: It really isn't ever being learned

14:53:14 mircea_popescu: "its easier" "consumers have come to expect" etc.

14:53:17 BingoBoingo: And here I was thinking Geocities had taught everyone that lesson while it still lived

14:53:53 mircea_popescu: problem is that everyone meanwhile internet-died.

14:54:00 mircea_popescu: new generation of mouthbreathers every what, 5 years ?

14:54:14 mircea_popescu: dignork cool, but what i'm really looking for is someone to do the site.

14:54:16 BingoBoingo: Prolly 4 is the safer number

14:55:12 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/8b01b15fdd22f1a52427c6e3538d4974/tumblr_njsa1fALnw1s25aalo1_500.jpg << bwahahaha

14:55:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5mn55 )

14:56:37 dignork: mircea_popescu: I can't currently handle it myself, but I can bring a friend and we'll split the work, would you be interested to cooperate?

14:57:02 mircea_popescu: well... the problem is the previous attempt failed on pretty much exactly the same lines. who is this friend, why's he not in the wot etc.

14:57:50 BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2wjvat/tim_draper_usms_auction_winner_superfish_funder/

14:57:52 assbot: Tim Draper USMS Auction Winner Superfish Funder : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5ms96 )

14:57:55 chetty: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/19/nsa-gchq-sim-card-billions-cellphones-hacking

14:57:57 assbot: Sim card database hack gave US and UK spies access to billions of cellphones | US news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5mv4z )

14:58:12 mircea_popescu: noooo, you're telling me tim draper "won" the "auciton" ? again ?

14:58:16 mircea_popescu: the one that really really happened ?

14:58:25 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He won the first one.

14:58:30 mircea_popescu: "won" "one".

14:58:35 mircea_popescu: that... also didn't happen.

14:58:39 BingoBoingo: Got part of the second one. Third is yet to come

14:59:07 BingoBoingo: They were said to have happened and Tim Draper's name came out of the hat more than once.

14:59:23 mircea_popescu: yeah yeah, i recall, the usms "auction" where they forgot to publish the results, in spite of foia, and their late promise to respect foia on an arbitrary extralegal self appointed date.

14:59:38 BingoBoingo: Indeed

14:59:47 mircea_popescu: credibility could be lower.

15:00:09 mircea_popescu: but i think it'd pretty much require best kim involvement for that result.

15:00:51 BingoBoingo: Don't think they'd waste her ass on this. Maybe second or third best kim.

15:01:43 mircea_popescu: best kim, korea kim.

15:02:20 mircea_popescu: what's his name, the kidnapped guy. jongun' ?

15:02:36 BingoBoingo: Ah, that one.

15:04:00 BingoBoingo: Armenian Kim has the better, if somewhat smaller ass.

15:04:21 mircea_popescu: lol

15:04:50 mircea_popescu: that guy is nuts btw, check this out : he kicked his uncle out of power, if you recall ? the guy who pretty much made him succeed.

15:05:06 mircea_popescu: then killed his kids, then the kids' kids, like fiddy bodies by now.

15:05:26 mircea_popescu: somehow THIS is acceptable to the "democratic west". what wasn't acceptable was you know, gaddafi an' his harem.

15:06:11 BingoBoingo: Right. Then again gaddafi was a softer target

15:06:45 mircea_popescu: dubious.

15:07:26 BingoBoingo: Well, for some definitions of soft.

15:07:30 asciilifeform: chetty: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-02-2015#1024948 << re: sim card thing

15:07:30 assbot: Logged on 19-02-2015 20:48:27; ascii_field: great sim heist << transparent nsa smokescreen. gsm uses toy crypto since day one (usg mandate) and has always been breakable with minimal effort.

15:08:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja watch them do it?

15:08:29 mircea_popescu: who do what ?

15:08:37 asciilifeform: north kr executions

15:08:59 chetty: asciilifeform, ploy to get people to update to the ones they nice backdoors to?

15:09:03 mircea_popescu: mno. for that matter, i didn't watch my own birth happen, either.

15:09:07 asciilifeform: because i didn't. and i don't believe a word out of the usg shills that is south kr.

15:09:24 asciilifeform: if south kr prints 'sky in north kr is blue' it's worth an independent test.

15:09:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but same holds for gaddafi ?

15:09:43 mircea_popescu: notice i'm limiting myself to relative statements ?

15:09:59 asciilifeform: absolutely same

15:10:23 asciilifeform: except the funny part is that he was pathologically generous to his subjects

15:10:30 mircea_popescu: my point is... they who tell the story and then act on the story are responsible toanswer as to their own consistency.

15:10:37 asciilifeform: aha

15:10:43 asciilifeform: bosnia/crimea.

15:11:21 mircea_popescu: haha it is kinda reversed huh ? democrat pres clinton supported one side in the serb-bosnian conflict,

15:11:33 mircea_popescu: dem pres obama supports the OTHER side in the ukr conflict.

15:11:46 asciilifeform: no secret to any ru folks - why.

15:11:52 mircea_popescu: i guess social sciences have made some progresses over the years ?

15:12:12 mircea_popescu: (dja know the joke with "what, you think medicine has not progressed in the interval ?!?!")

15:12:57 mircea_popescu: "WizSec has been investigating the MtGox crash since soon after it occurred, making us probably the longest running non-official investigation."

15:13:01 mircea_popescu: who thefuck is this again ?

15:13:25 asciilifeform: chetty: more complicated. ploy to stave off genuine voice channel crypto indefinitely through 'aha see they foiled usg plot, go back to using traditional phone'

15:16:52 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: so anyone wants to make a poker site ? << actually yes.

15:17:07 mircea_popescu: ok but can you code ?!

15:17:17 pete_dushenski: lol no!

15:17:26 asciilifeform: l0l

15:17:31 mircea_popescu: well...

15:17:42 mike_c: just use wordpress

15:17:45 BingoBoingo: !b 6

15:17:46 assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/11J7TQ9.txt )

15:17:46 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: do it in 'ada' !

15:17:57 mircea_popescu: jesus fuck mike_c's snide is like kakobrekla level :D

15:18:14 pete_dushenski: mike_c: don't tempt me

15:18:14 mike_c: kindred spirits :)

15:18:37 mircea_popescu: "every hand can be a new post. and hwat, you password protect it, so there's security"

15:19:01 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: like teh boeing 777 ?

15:19:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15929 @ 0.00039564 = 6.3021 BTC [+]

15:19:34 pete_dushenski: "and every comment is a check, raise, or fold

15:19:35 pete_dushenski: "

15:19:43 BingoBoingo: Feed the comment spam to the RNG

15:19:46 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: like most machines containing large pile of potential corpses during normal operatio

15:19:47 asciilifeform: n

15:20:07 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: not random enough ;)

15:20:21 mircea_popescu: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/398852/harvard-law-prof-student-banned-areas-campus-resembling-classmates-rapist-katherine << this is the law of all time.

15:20:22 assbot: National Review ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5nK3Q )

15:20:27 mircea_popescu: and by law i mean us law, also known as lol.

15:20:46 pete_dushenski: lawl

15:20:51 asciilifeform: dead link ?

15:21:00 mircea_popescu: they beleeted it ?!

15:21:09 mircea_popescu: http://reason.com/blog/2015/02/19/male-student-banned-from-campus-because

15:21:11 assbot: Male Student Allegedly Banned from Campus Because His Resemblance to a Rapist Was Triggering? - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5nPVa )

15:22:35 pete_dushenski: he could've offered to wear a ski mask to class

15:23:05 mircea_popescu: "t?s devastating to think of a student being unable to walk around campus without having to risk being traumatized by reminders of her rape."

15:23:06 mircea_popescu: wait, what ?

15:23:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18639 @ 0.00040797 = 7.6042 BTC [+]

15:23:25 mircea_popescu: who the fuck asked the stupid bitch. if she can't come to terms with the world she should stay in the asylum

15:23:45 asciilifeform: when napoleon is in the asylum - harmless

15:23:47 pete_dushenski: typical "make the world conform to me so it's more fair"

15:23:49 mircea_popescu: that's the way this world works : normally adjusted individuals on the street, individuals who for whatever reason can't cope, in the coop.

15:23:54 pete_dushenski: like bitcoin = visa

15:23:58 asciilifeform: but picture a shadowy 'someone' were to let him out and actually crown him.

15:24:05 asciilifeform: ^ that is usa.

15:24:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26761 @ 0.0004106 = 10.9881 BTC [+] {3}

15:24:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then they wonder why they have to pay people immense sums to keep secrets that still don't, and i don't have to pay them anything other than "yeah, yeah, i'll stick it to those dudes".

15:24:53 mircea_popescu: not that i mind the arrangement... but in absolute fairness it IS stupid as all fuck.

15:25:03 asciilifeform: when do we see some -real- secrets

15:25:20 mircea_popescu: probably after the rapture.

15:25:24 asciilifeform: rupture.

15:25:42 mircea_popescu: also.

15:25:52 mircea_popescu: fun fact : rapt means rape, in latin

15:27:17 pete_dushenski: and i suppose sluttery means slavery in latin

15:27:20 asciilifeform: at any rate, the scandal described in the link is fantastic enough that one ought to ask for some public record suggesting it actually happened

15:27:37 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski raptus, look it up.

15:27:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no because see, "to protect identities" this is not reported.

15:28:09 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: o i believe!

15:28:12 asciilifeform: the court order presumably exists somewhere

15:28:14 asciilifeform: (or doesn't)

15:28:39 mircea_popescu: they've really built the most hallucinant re-enaction of the soviets : the guy doesn't have the right to anything EXCEPT he has the right for no one to know how the government fucked him over.

15:29:11 asciilifeform: so, what, are we to believe he was 'national security' gagged ?

15:29:23 asciilifeform: or simply doesn't feel like making his humiliation public

15:29:27 asciilifeform: or which is it

15:30:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my construction (which obviously could be wrong) is that "the authorities" refuse to disclose it "citing privacy concerns"

15:30:04 mircea_popescu: that's it.

15:30:10 asciilifeform: related: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#547017

15:30:10 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:47:31; asciilifeform: there is a related soviet joke. abramowitch (generic jew, not the oligarch) calls a friend who was over for dinner last night:

15:31:59 mircea_popescu: timeout waiting for punchline

15:32:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#547018 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#547019 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#547020

15:32:27 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:47:40; asciilifeform: 'we're short of a few silver spoons. shame on you';

15:32:27 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:47:46; asciilifeform: friend denies

15:32:27 assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:48:01; asciilifeform: next day, A calls again 'we found the spoons. but the stain on your reputation... it remains.'

15:32:36 danielpbarron: is it about 10k a day << more like 5k: 183012, 189051, 194563, 200106, 204520, 210431

15:32:58 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron which setup is this again ? pogo and sata ?

15:33:13 danielpbarron: ya

15:33:32 danielpbarron: 5.3G .bitcoin/ vs 39.0G .bitcoin/ on my full node

15:33:43 danielpbarron: so about 1/8 of the way?

15:33:47 mircea_popescu: so like 15% done in a week or so ?

15:33:51 danielpbarron: yeh

15:33:54 danielpbarron: not too shabby

15:34:02 danielpbarron: should take 2 months in my estimation

15:34:14 asciilifeform: wai wat

15:34:15 danielpbarron: but this is on the systemd archlinux BS

15:34:18 mircea_popescu: depends how it behaves towards the end.

15:34:21 danielpbarron: maybe it speeds up with a cleaner install

15:34:27 asciilifeform: mine took <2wks on same

15:34:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's on an arch something

15:34:40 asciilifeform: so was i

15:34:42 danielpbarron: your pogo is fully synced?

15:34:51 asciilifeform: ah wait

15:34:58 asciilifeform: thinking of other box

15:35:05 asciilifeform: pogo was not.

15:35:09 asciilifeform: nm

15:35:25 *: asciilifeform still waking up...

15:35:28 danielpbarron: also this is with 2 gigs of swap killing the drive

15:35:55 danielpbarron: even with the swap, it occasionally crashes

15:36:33 mircea_popescu: heh.

15:36:35 danielpbarron: also: yay WoT poker!

15:36:41 *: asciilifeform again states for the record that the notion of running a proggy with unbounded memory consumption is a laugh

15:36:46 mircea_popescu: hopefully this alleviates with better pogo density on the network.

15:37:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the time this was put in, the blockchain was mb not gb.

15:37:05 danielpbarron: it is totally possible to prevent collusion

15:37:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i know why it's there

15:37:20 danielpbarron: all the times i called into Micon's stupid podcast i was trying to get him to integrate the WoT

15:37:26 asciilifeform: but the notion of releasing such a thing now, is a laugh.

15:37:32 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron micon suffers from the dk problem.

15:37:40 mircea_popescu: he means well, but he doesn't have the tools to examine himself with.

15:38:04 danielpbarron: i sent him a tweet reminding him you tried offering him a job last year; maybe this mess has snapped him out of it

15:38:42 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: The Seals release on the matter makes it seem he's clearly already decided on a course of action

15:38:58 *: asciilifeform dares to make the observation that more competent folks would turn out for these jobs if there was a possibility they might be able to live off such

15:39:00 danielpbarron: well he's saying that now; looks like face-saving

15:39:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i need that like i need more women that'd date me if i paid them a salary for it.

15:39:49 danielpbarron: a legit collusion free poker site would make a lot of money; seals wasn't dying for lack of players. they just all flocked to pokerstars play money where collusion was not profitable

15:40:20 asciilifeform: (obligatory naggum: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html )

15:40:21 assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5oQfV )

15:40:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you feed'em dontcha

15:41:04 danielpbarron: people have actually been BUYING play chips that they cannot cash out

15:41:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or do your pets get sent out to work day jobs

15:41:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dating !=

15:41:33 asciilifeform: aha

15:43:15 mircea_popescu: early days of the republic are ALL ABOUT barriers to entry.

15:43:36 mircea_popescu: a decade later or w/e, the world can be as full of "i too could have been in" as it pleases, for all the good it'll do anyone.

15:43:47 mircea_popescu: "no you schmuck, you couldn't. as proven by ? didn't."

15:43:53 mircea_popescu: just like bitcoin works.

15:44:01 pete_dushenski: classic "i coulda been a contender"

15:44:04 mircea_popescu: classic.

15:44:30 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: we'll get wot poker eventually

15:44:48 pete_dushenski: if it takes me 5 years to learn how to code, by golly i'll do it

15:45:05 mircea_popescu: not a very good first project in any case.

15:45:25 pete_dushenski: a better one would be ... ?

15:45:32 danielpbarron: a working scoopbot :p

15:45:39 pete_dushenski: lol!

15:45:41 ben_vulpes: noshit

15:46:12 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: not a bad plan

15:46:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then when we start hiring, we hire slaves, like anyone hiring. and then the slave-born cry and whine that "oh look, bitcoin's no better".

15:46:21 mircea_popescu: well... not for them. nor should it be.

15:46:45 *: ben_vulpes returns to the rocket blueprints

15:48:02 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski no but he has a point. making an irc bot excellent coding exercise. i agree, good 1st time thing for intelligent person.

15:49:12 ben_vulpes: first, use a bot in whatever language

15:49:12 ben_vulpes: then

15:49:17 ben_vulpes: write your own bot client

15:49:23 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the idea had crossed my mind

15:49:31 BingoBoingo: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/02/20/financial-aid-director-north-idaho-college-arrested-offering-scholarships-sex

15:49:34 assbot: Financial aid director at North Idaho College arrested for offering scholarships for sex @insidehighered ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5pvhy )

15:49:39 mircea_popescu: hahaha

15:49:40 ben_vulpes: the curve is full of these oom steps up in complexity

15:49:45 danielpbarron: fwiw, i have actually coded things that worked before; I made my own minecraft plugin that used a database to keep track of credit/debt between players when they took items from chests / it broke when an update totally revamped the inventory control system and I abandoned it / also, it was java :/

15:49:46 mircea_popescu: who the fuck wants to go to college in north idaho.

15:49:57 mircea_popescu: that guy was probably doing them a favour, whoever they were.

15:50:06 BingoBoingo: Seriously

15:50:37 mircea_popescu: "The financial aid director at North Idaho College was arrested this month and fired for offering to trade scholarships for sex with a student. However, the student wasn't real.

15:50:38 mircea_popescu: Joseph Bekken was arrested and jailed on charged of attempted misuse of public funds, attempted procurement of prostitution, burglary, using a computer in a scheme to defraud and bribery."

15:50:40 BingoBoingo: Place is almost Canada

15:50:42 mircea_popescu: law

15:51:12 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: and you avoided letting it trap you

15:51:13 ben_vulpes: good job

15:51:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22651 @ 0.00040734 = 9.2267 BTC [-]

15:51:51 danielpbarron: i also coded a thing that would simulate players having to learn each other's language by speaking to each other to build up understanding; had the effect where a group of friends could talk in long sentences that strangers couldn't understand; strangers would have to talk in very short lines like "yes" "no" "here" in order to understand each other

15:52:14 mircea_popescu: wait. what ?!

15:52:28 danielpbarron: that part of it ended up being my favorite part; it worked very very well

15:52:31 mircea_popescu: "oh, i also built natural language ai"

15:52:44 thestringpuller: cazalla: yea. "jump starting game economy"

15:52:54 danielpbarron: it would scramble lines based on how many words you had already seen from that player

15:52:57 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron how did this work then ?

15:53:01 mircea_popescu: uhm.

15:53:17 danielpbarron: i think i still have the code lying around somewhere; i'll try to find it

15:53:49 ben_vulpes: is anyone familiar with these white "ceramic" "nonstick" pans?

15:54:01 mircea_popescu: silverstone or something else ?

15:55:06 ben_vulpes: yeeeah.

15:55:20 ben_vulpes: shit's going to nuke my testes somehow, right?

15:55:32 mike_c: collusion-free poker is nice, but I think bots are more the problem.

15:55:32 mircea_popescu: nah

15:55:42 danielpbarron: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=j662qaj8

15:55:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DADlQD )

15:55:52 mircea_popescu: it's been a decent replacement for teflon for a while now.

15:56:00 mike_c: most collusion isn't as profitable as one might think (if at all)

15:56:25 ben_vulpes: i don't trust it

15:56:26 mircea_popescu: mike_c you jus' sayin' or you actually thought about this ?

15:56:40 ben_vulpes: technology gets worse over time not better

15:56:53 danielpbarron: mike_c, bots == collusion

15:56:55 mike_c: i have thought. i have played a lot of poker in my time.

15:57:11 mike_c: no, bots and collusion are entirely separate

15:57:17 danielpbarron: uh.. how so?

15:57:19 mircea_popescu: well so if you play 1k hands for an average of 1k a hand and come out 7k ahead is it a good game or a bad game ?

15:57:50 mike_c: uh, it's a wash.

15:57:52 danielpbarron: if the bots aren't colluding then it's not an issue

15:58:02 mike_c: 7k on $1mm wagered?

15:58:17 mircea_popescu: if that's a wash...

15:58:26 mike_c: statistically insignificat

15:58:38 mircea_popescu: dude get out, 0.7% is exactly what you live off.

15:58:40 danielpbarron: i'll gladly play against non-colluding bots any day; a bot can't out-bluff a real person; the whole point in having bots is that they share info with each other

15:58:52 mike_c: over 1k hands you have no idea what your return is

15:58:58 mircea_popescu: i guess we go at this the other way then : we play poker, you see five + two cards, i see five + twelve cards.

15:58:59 mircea_popescu: we're even ?

15:59:17 mike_c: you have to put up much more money though

15:59:29 mike_c: when i lose, i lose 1x. you lose, you lose 6x

15:59:46 mircea_popescu: yeah, but i lose it to myself.

15:59:55 mike_c: you are paying 6x the blinds I am

15:59:59 mircea_popescu: to myself.

16:00:32 mike_c: to the winner

16:00:35 mike_c: (and the house)

16:00:37 mircea_popescu: who is going to be...

16:01:04 mircea_popescu: yes, i pay more rake. that's there but not really significant.

16:01:12 mike_c: hehe

16:01:17 mike_c: untrue. rake is brutal

16:01:27 dignork: mike_c: collusion is insignificat for a poker shop in financial means, it's a PR problem when discovered, and consequently the lose players/source of income.

16:01:37 mircea_popescu: you've been playing poker in north idaho with college admins it seems.

16:01:41 mike_c: right

16:02:05 mircea_popescu: rake on 1k hands is what, 300 bux ?

16:02:43 mike_c: Online? What limit?

16:02:57 mircea_popescu: just generally. poker hand is a commodity, like pork bellies.

16:03:08 mircea_popescu: goes four about 30 cents these days, more or less.

16:03:10 mike_c: Live rake is much higher than online.

16:03:19 *: mircea_popescu shrugs

16:03:20 mike_c: Live rake is $5/hand.

16:03:26 mircea_popescu: you're arguing anecdote against principle here.

16:03:48 mircea_popescu: live rake is not going to have 6 man collusion either, is it!

16:03:49 mike_c: No, I'm not. the profit margins both live and online are significantly affected by rake

16:04:05 mike_c: ok, so we're discussing online. where the profit margins and the rake are smaller

16:04:22 mircea_popescu: unless they were looking at making an offline site o.O

16:04:48 mike_c: anyhoo. Let me see if I can dig up some real stats.

16:05:00 BingoBoingo: Poker over numbers station

16:05:05 dignork: danielpbarron: most bots do not collude - they make more money on the long run by playing with fish on small stakes. But yes, theoretically they could collude. It's just they are more profitable when they are not.

16:05:43 danielpbarron: dignork, i don't see what the problem is with a bot that doesn't collude

16:05:55 nubbins`: re: cryptosporidium

16:06:10 nubbins`: this is one of the nicer pieces of kit i've picked up over years of outdoorsyness:

16:06:13 nubbins`: ;;google steripen

16:06:13 gribble: SteriPEN Water Purification | UV Water Purification: http://www.steripen.com/; Amazon.com : SteriPEN Traveler Portable, Handheld UV Water ...: http://www.amazon.com/SteriPEN-Traveler-Portable-Handheld-Purifier/dp/B0041EB6EU; SteriPEN Adventurer Opti Water Purifier - REI.com: http://www.rei.com/product/799003/steripen-adventurer-opti-water-purifier

16:06:53 mike_c: Pokerstars has $3 cap at common no-limit games

16:06:55 danielpbarron: if someone's in the WoT and they want a bot to play for them, I say go for it

16:07:02 dignork: danielpbarron: me either, but most players assume that bots are evil, hence all this bot-hunting madness

16:07:18 mike_c: figure 80 hands/hour, avg $1 cap, 6 players at table (5 colluding)

16:07:32 mike_c: ;;calc 80*5/6

16:07:33 gribble: 66.6666666667

16:07:51 mike_c: colluders are paying $66 an hour to play at a $1/$2 no-limit game

16:08:03 mircea_popescu: why "avg" ? you always fill the table. why "80" ? bot plays all the tables. all of them.

16:08:16 mike_c: average because max rake isn't every hand

16:08:35 mike_c: 80 because that's a common number of hands per hour at online

16:08:49 mircea_popescu: ...

16:08:54 mike_c: ... what?

16:08:59 nubbins`: alos, dat lenovo

16:09:01 nubbins`: *also

16:09:12 mircea_popescu: mike_c the.bot.fills.all.the.tables.

16:09:18 nubbins`: i taught my roomie about CAs yesterday using them as an example

16:09:21 mike_c: then who the fuck is it making money off of?

16:09:23 nubbins`: guy likes to learn

16:09:26 mircea_popescu: if you have 500 human players, you're running 500 tables, with a total of 3k "players"

16:09:28 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Don't worry Draper's been Indicted http://qntra.net/2015/02/the-superfish-funder-list/

16:09:29 assbot: The Superfish Funder List | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAGe3I )

16:09:37 nubbins`: sweet

16:09:52 *: dignork eagerly waits for the day when there will be a discovery on diddles bios on Lenovo

16:09:55 mike_c: Yeah, exactly. so we're talking about one table with me and 5 of your stupid bots colluding.

16:10:00 mircea_popescu: ok.

16:10:28 mike_c: to be clear, are you the site operator or just some other player running these bots?

16:10:44 mircea_popescu: this is like asking "who sent this bitcoin transaction"

16:10:45 mike_c: and also to be clear, i am talking about collusion, not bots.

16:10:46 nubbins`: i used to work for a national insurance company, every corporate machine was a lenovo

16:11:05 nubbins`: but they also didn't hash passwords, instead opting to store them in plain text

16:11:07 nubbins`: so... shrug.

16:11:09 mike_c: because my whole point was bots are the problem, not collusion.

16:11:27 mircea_popescu: mike_c collusion and bots are different topics. however, because collusion offers a small but systematic bonus, it's what makes bots always win. in the .5 to 1.5% range, depending.

16:12:05 mike_c: that is not what makes bots win. it simply gives bots a small bump over what their skill would be otherwise.

16:12:09 mircea_popescu: but if you want a statistical model, play with someone like this : three cards face up, two in the hole for you, two in the hole for them, a ten card window for them you can't see.

16:12:13 mircea_popescu: see if you ever win.

16:12:21 mircea_popescu: bots have no skill.

16:12:22 mike_c: for example, a bot will destroy you in headsup hold'em because it is now a solved problem.

16:12:34 mircea_popescu: hah. no it won't.

16:12:38 mike_c: yes, it will

16:12:45 *: mircea_popescu handgesture

16:12:53 mike_c: hand gesture my nuts. it's solved.

16:13:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12449 @ 0.00040734 = 5.071 BTC [-]

16:13:26 mircea_popescu: look, i saw the al\berta thing

16:13:44 mike_c: i saw it 15 years ago

16:13:57 danielpbarron: if you realize you are heads up against a bot, couldn't you use its algorithm against it?

16:13:58 mike_c: what's the emoticon for sticking a tongue out?

16:14:02 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: gladly suck our cock if only we a) didn't bang hotties and b) validated their self-hottie delusions. << These are usually the girls who start false accusing despite being squelched.

16:14:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8801 @ 0.00040088 = 3.5281 BTC [-]

16:14:06 mike_c: danielpbarron: no. that's what solved means.

16:14:25 mike_c: you going to beat a bot at tic-tac-toe because you know its algorithm?

16:14:28 danielpbarron: solved as in a mathematical proof?

16:14:37 danielpbarron: tic-tac-toe isn't poker

16:14:51 mike_c: and heads-up poker isn't 6 person poker.

16:14:59 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron ?We define a game to be essentially solved if a lifetime of play is unable to statistically differentiate it from being solved at 95% confidence,?

16:15:10 mike_c: you think you can beat it, there are machines in vegas where you can play against it for real money

16:15:43 mircea_popescu: why would i personally play against a machine ?!

16:15:49 mike_c: that was for danielpbarron

16:15:59 danielpbarron: for the sake of argument, say heads up is broken; no heads up!

16:16:10 mike_c: my point was collusion isn't what makes a bot win.

16:16:28 mike_c: a bot's winrate can be bumped up by collusion, but it is far from the biggest factor in its success or failure

16:16:29 mircea_popescu: mike_c a bot that knows the distribution tables really well has an edge. sure.

16:18:07 mike_c: but, this argument aside, the point of bringing it up - does your solution handle the bot problem?

16:18:16 mike_c: because that would be interesting.

16:18:22 mike_c: collusion is whatever

16:18:26 danielpbarron: all of this is a moot point anyway if the pre-requisite for playing is being in the WoT

16:18:43 mircea_popescu: mike_c also, they play limit headsup, which... nobody plays.

16:18:50 mike_c: no limit too

16:18:54 mircea_popescu: mike_c yes, it does.

16:19:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.0004119 = 6.7964 BTC [+] {2}

16:19:10 mike_c: and why does nobody play no-limit headsup anymore? and limit? because of this.

16:19:11 nubbins`: if the pre-req for playing is being in the WoT, the games are gonna suck

16:19:24 mike_c: people love headsup, but nobody will play online anymore cuz bots.

16:19:30 danielpbarron: well now i feel like a dick for having recommended people play only heads up to prevent collusion

16:19:33 mike_c: obviously it's not b/c collusion

16:20:13 danielpbarron: nubbins`, uh.. what/? when I play face-to-face it's WoT poker

16:20:26 danielpbarron: i only play with people I know, or someone i trust knows

16:20:31 BingoBoingo: Anyways the problem with bots in poker is they don't respond appropriately when you are drinking and talking shit at the table

16:20:37 mike_c: hehe

16:20:48 mike_c: solvable problem. run 50 bots and pay somebody to sit and chat

16:20:54 mircea_popescu: also they don't have boobs.

16:21:01 BingoBoingo: ^

16:21:04 mike_c: looks no different from the nuts who don't use bots and multi-table ridiculously

16:21:36 dignork: BingoBoingo: they don't, so you have one dude faking bot's responses for 10s of them.

16:21:38 danielpbarron: "if the pre-req for chatting on irc is being in the WoT, the chat is gonna suck"

16:22:13 mike_c: i don't know that wot solves it all. so we start neg-rating on suspicion of bot use?

16:22:28 BingoBoingo: dignork: Mind blown

16:23:10 dignork: mike_c: you don't have to neg-rate them, just abn them from poker site

16:23:12 danielpbarron: if you suspect someone is cheating, do you want to play with them?

16:23:13 mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/9d5116c2d828ae560caadf105914b827/tumblr_njrjtwwKB61rdc5oto1_400.gif << there's no end to automation.

16:23:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAJex2 )

16:23:21 mike_c: dignork: on what? suscpicions?

16:23:59 mike_c: danielpbarron: but this problem is solved by weekly home game. online poker is different.

16:24:11 mike_c: you are more meant to play with strangers

16:24:21 danielpbarron: i don't see how it's any ddifferent; i wish i could play online with my weekly poker buddies

16:24:24 mircea_popescu: you are "meant" ?

16:24:26 mike_c: so i'm playing with stranger, he runs good or makes a couple good bluffs, and so i negrate him?

16:24:33 danielpbarron: in fact we figured out a way with pokerstars home game

16:24:35 dignork: mike_c: yep, it's close to impossible to get a hard proof, but statistical violations are good enough, with a very small false positives.

16:24:38 mike_c: yeah "meant". otherwise it fails as business

16:24:48 mircea_popescu: i had no idea you were so teleological.

16:24:55 mike_c: dignork: over the long long long term only.

16:25:04 BingoBoingo: !up mats

16:25:09 nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> "if the pre-req for chatting on irc is being in the WoT, the chat is gonna suck" <<< *cough*

16:25:15 nubbins`: 8)

16:25:21 dignork: mike_c: well, define "long". 100 hands? 200?

16:25:35 mike_c: no, that's the problem. more like 1mm.

16:25:41 danielpbarron: mike_c, you don't play with strangers, unless they are vouched for by someone you know

16:26:26 mike_c: idk, i am unconvinced. of course, we are assuming the solution here which mp hasn't specified.

16:27:18 danielpbarron: my recommendation to Micon wasn't even to bar access based on WoT, but to just give players option to link to WoT identity so that I can make the determination myself

16:28:13 mircea_popescu: !up bitspill

16:28:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56650 @ 0.00041367 = 23.4344 BTC [+] {2}

16:29:14 danielpbarron: and tournaments could have something like assbot to limit who can join

16:29:25 mike_c: mircea_popescu: not teleology, I just don't see how a poker site gets enough traffic if the only problem it solves is "we'll host your weekly poker game".

16:29:55 danielpbarron: weekly can be daily when we don't have to drive miles to get to the game

16:30:02 mircea_popescu: i also don't see how email will ever get enough interest if the only problem it solves ios "we'll save you the 9.95 a plastic maibox costs"

16:30:06 mike_c: the sites already solve that. i know my friend's nicks and i can play with them if i want.

16:30:15 mircea_popescu: the problem with teleologists is that they misstate both the problem and the solution.

16:30:22 mike_c: so restate it.

16:30:36 mircea_popescu: well i intend to, depending how this dignork thing works out.

16:31:38 mike_c: ok, i'll reserve comment until then. and you're a teleologist.

16:31:48 mike_c: :P

16:32:32 danielpbarron: the reason the pokerstars homegame thing didn't work out so well is we could only do tournaments; there was no way to do cash games

16:33:11 danielpbarron: not that they don't have a cash game option, but it would let players rebuy without any accounting, which made linking to bitcoin impossible

16:34:26 danielpbarron: plus, if that ever took off i'm sure pokerstars would have killed it

16:34:39 danielpbarron: not a good idea to rely on someone else's thing

16:34:47 nubbins`: ^

16:35:17 nubbins`: if there's one lesson bitcoin teaches people mercilessly...

16:35:34 BingoBoingo: !b 4

16:35:35 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3MC2ZKW.txt )

16:35:55 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Any new lazerdude drama?

16:36:31 nubbins`: nah

16:36:44 nubbins`: now it's mostly me just antagonizing TECSHARE

16:37:24 mats: BingoBoingo: you ever get any of my PMs?

16:38:37 BingoBoingo: mats not recently

16:40:59 mats: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB113236377590902105

16:41:00 assbot: The New White Flight - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAMKYg )

16:41:44 mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> if there's one lesson bitcoin teaches people mercilessly... << exactly. "if you don;t know the owner, the thing doesn;t exist". exactly contrary to how the us currently works, all impersonal and "it's our policy" and bs.

16:43:33 mircea_popescu: soo... if i want some laser handcarved items that were cut out of a log with an axe by adrunk sailor

16:43:37 mircea_popescu: where do i go now ?

16:47:41 nubbins`: prolly shoot him a PM

16:47:52 nubbins`: i doubt he stopped checking the forum ;p

16:48:22 nubbins`: also FWIW

16:48:28 nubbins`: oh fuck hold on

16:48:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14429 @ 0.00040088 = 5.7843 BTC [-]

16:49:24 nubbins`: ;;buy 1 "Collection of laser-cut wood items" @ 0 BTC PM for details

16:49:25 gribble: Order id 22024 created.

16:50:15 mircea_popescu: should have bought it for 0 hands

16:51:00 mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/5afb4d44dd406060ccfb7c50a3158e2b/tumblr_njmjri6twD1rdc5oto3_1280.jpg hegre ftw.

16:51:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAP0yJ )

17:04:00 mircea_popescu: !up saifedean

17:04:27 saifedean: good evening, b/a

17:05:39 saifedean: it's february 2015 because i fixed it up just this week

17:06:28 mircea_popescu: aha. Preliminaiy version: do not quote without author permission. << ironically, only typo is in the warning

17:07:26 mircea_popescu: saifedean a particularly interesting metric, other than the 5.5bn eu / 6.5 bn us (which by now is more like 10 anyway), would be subsidy per joule.

17:07:34 mircea_popescu: that's one eyepopping statistic.

17:07:51 mircea_popescu: (in the case of ethanol in the us, include ALL agricultural subsidies, not just the direct for ethanol stuff)

17:11:48 BingoBoingo: !up saifedean

17:11:54 saifedean: in fact, if you think about it, you can't really even calculate a subsidy per joule, since the moronic process probably consumes more energy than it produces, so the more subsidies, the more joules are wasted!

17:12:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23554 @ 0.00041519 = 9.7794 BTC [+] {2}

17:12:13 mircea_popescu: just in an administrative sense.

17:12:29 saifedean: if the thing could produce more joules than it consumes, it wouldn't need so much bezzle to keep it running

17:15:35 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, http://33.media.tumblr.com/1c89371b4d6a50d49843bc120cc20ddc/tumblr_nbuz4eQ8J01tg4a6no1_400.gif

17:15:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAUbi0 )

17:19:20 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-02-2015#1025966 << true pretty much in any context... they take our jobs!

17:19:20 assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 16:07:02; dignork: danielpbarron: me either, but most players assume that bots are evil, hence all this bot-hunting madness

17:22:56 thestringpuller: scoopbot -fetch

17:23:01 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/02/the-dangers-of-bitcoin-trapping/

17:23:25 mircea_popescu: scoopbot seems to be working fine neh ?

17:24:19 danielpbarron: " speculation of the dangers of trapping " << url broken

17:24:48 danielpbarron: acutally it looks like all the urls are broken

17:26:12 thestringpuller: ah yes. danielpbarron it seems that way for the all the links

17:26:35 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo is fixing :D

17:26:39 BingoBoingo: SHould all be fxd nao

17:27:00 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: scoopbot does seem to be working fine...for nao ;)

17:42:35 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: well, for some blogs...

17:43:06 thestringpuller: i thought it worked for conravex?

17:43:51 pete_dushenski: nah

17:44:06 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: "The overbearing regulatory climate in the US for exchanging fiat for Bitcoin seems to have similar consequences as its War on Drugs." << curious how you get here logically

17:44:45 danielpbarron: b-a isn't a cult.. it's a cartel!

17:45:15 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: these brokers could have a physical shop

17:45:28 pete_dushenski: with sekoority cameras and door buzzers or whatever

17:45:36 pete_dushenski: like a gun/pawn shop

17:45:53 pete_dushenski: there are (were?) in fact a few such operations in canada

17:46:22 pete_dushenski: meeting people on the street to sell things will always bear this risk, regs or no regs

17:46:37 pete_dushenski: you could be selling an ipad and have the same thing happen

17:46:53 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: i like it!

17:47:11 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski solid point.

17:49:30 pete_dushenski: the cost of business is borne either way

17:49:43 pete_dushenski: cost of overhead to insure against gunpoint robberies

17:49:55 pete_dushenski: or cost of the odd gunpoint robbery

17:50:08 pete_dushenski: cost of insurance depends on locale

17:50:12 mircea_popescu: i dunno man. that 11k the guy reported lost would have paid 1year rent + hardening measures.

17:50:14 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

17:50:19 ascii_field: danke BingoBoingo

17:50:38 pete_dushenski: type of people, cost of rent, cost of cams, etc

17:51:12 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: perhaps not in nyc, or at least not manhattan

17:51:16 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1021759 << is this something i could be doing?

17:51:16 assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 03:22:43; asciilifeform: nubbins`: what state's your beast in now << stuck on crafting the ramdisk (in-ram root fs) for netbsd. as of a week ago. haven't the time, presently, to do anything

17:51:41 ascii_field: danielpbarron: possibly

17:52:11 danielpbarron: is "in-ram" the eeprom thing?

17:52:16 ascii_field: danielpbarron: see if you are able to set up the cross-compile system (netbsd carries its own) on your box

17:52:42 danielpbarron: by my box, you mean my gentoo laptop?

17:53:07 danielpbarron: i'm downloading this right now -> ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1/source/sets/src.tgz

17:53:11 ascii_field: danielpbarron: at present time there is no support whatoever for the eeprom in netbsd. this means that it can be used, but only if the userland (yes, all of it) is baked into a ramdisk baked into the kernel (which in turn is loaded by uboot in one shot at powerup)

17:53:43 ascii_field: danielpbarron: the netbsd kernel and userland are sufficiently compact (vs linux) to make this a worthwhile exercise

17:55:30 danielpbarron: is this something i should be able to teach myself in a reasonable amount of time?

17:55:48 ascii_field: danielpbarron: you could find the bug in the netbsd ramdisk build script as well as i could

17:56:52 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: re: War on Drug << We can't buy Bitcoin without the help of Coinbase, or submitting to enemy's wishes, so alternative is to hit the streets. This is similar if not exact mentality of aspiring drug dealer wanting his own corner.

17:57:12 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then when we start hiring, we hire slaves, like anyone hiring << simply wanted to point out that all of the #b-a projects (with possible exception of kakobrekla's work) are powered a hundred percent by the fiat economy's surplus - that is, free hours of various folks involved - and to some extent are at the mercy of their day job fortunes (see, e.g., the demise of moiety)

17:57:36 ascii_field: !up indiancandy1

17:57:40 danielpbarron: !up indiancandy1

17:58:07 *: ascii_field reflex

17:58:56 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: you can't use bitstamp ? or bitcoin-otc ? or one of those schmancy atms ?

17:59:08 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: see the difference in mitigated risk between the overbearing nature of War on Drugs in state such a Virginia or Texas, vs say Colorado or Washington in regards to cannabis shops. Yes the risk involved in transit (large sums of money between shop and "bank", and transit of goods being guarded by ex military sekurity)

17:59:36 thestringpuller: but the difference in resulting violence is great

17:59:40 danielpbarron: well at least i'm in the fortunate position of getting my fiat stuff done in one heavy time period, leaving the rest of the year open

18:00:26 danielpbarron: i can see how draining this would be if my free time was limited to a couple hours nightly

18:00:54 *: ascii_field works under precisely this ^ constraint

18:01:13 danielpbarron: a travesty!

18:02:02 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: I personally use bitcoin-otc but that's only because I have trusted people to sell me coin. For someone on fringes of this footprint who needs local fulfillment this creates the risk of "trapping".

18:02:29 danielpbarron: people who aren't in the WoT should be concerned first with .. getting in the WoT

18:02:39 thestringpuller: i'm not saying people not in WoT danielpbarron

18:02:50 thestringpuller: i'm talking of people on fringes who aren't connected strong enough to make large trades at this point

18:02:56 thestringpuller: because the footprint is small

18:03:05 danielpbarron: they can't use escrow?

18:03:33 danielpbarron: idk how large of at trade you're talking about, but i did several deals worth several thousand dollars in otc through escrow agents

18:03:33 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: the cannabis example is irrelevant because of the precise physicality of the item

18:03:46 pete_dushenski: bitcoin suffers no such limitation

18:03:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51370 @ 0.00040029 = 20.5629 BTC [-] {2}

18:03:55 pete_dushenski: transport is simplified, storage idem

18:04:11 pete_dushenski: not zero risk of course, just different

18:04:27 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: is this for digitized of physical fiat? i'm assuming former

18:04:38 thestringpuller: s/of/or

18:04:46 pete_dushenski: i'm talking about btc now

18:05:05 fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2wjacv/seals_with_clubs_the_first_bitcoin_poker_room/

18:05:07 assbot: Seals with Clubs, the first Bitcoin poker room, shuts down. Funds are still safe. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/19KBU5r )

18:05:09 thestringpuller: well how do you acquire btc with cash without phsyical presence?

18:05:17 fluffypony: oh

18:05:19 fluffypony: already covered

18:05:22 fluffypony: how did I miss that

18:05:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25530 @ 0.00039562 = 10.1002 BTC [-] {2}

18:05:56 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: i'm saying that a physical presence is simpler to manage for a digital asset than a physical one

18:06:14 pete_dushenski: so set up a shop

18:06:27 pete_dushenski: ape the gun sellers

18:06:34 thestringpuller: wait huh?

18:06:54 thestringpuller: yes the inventory for coin is simpler to manage but risk of gun in face is still apparent for anything valuable...

18:07:24 thestringpuller: setting up a shop is what cannabis shops have done and crime rate has gone down from relaxation of regulations

18:07:49 thestringpuller: i don't see how this point is irrelevant due to cannabis being a physical good and bitcoin being a digital good

18:08:50 pete_dushenski: it's basically the transportation to and from the shop, requiring "ex-military sekurity"

18:09:03 pete_dushenski: that's the difference

18:09:18 mircea_popescu: motherfucker this guy totally beat me to the punch reviewing kerouac.

18:09:30 *: mircea_popescu signs off on http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/10/kerouacs_on_the_road.html

18:09:32 assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Kerouac's On The Road: The 50th Anniversary Of A Book I Had Not Read ... ( http://bit.ly/19KDnsu )

18:09:39 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: either way, it's not illegal to sell btc, no special id required

18:09:54 thestringpuller: not for floridian who is in jail

18:09:56 danielpbarron: i don't get who would actually type in his password at gunpoint -- or, yet another reason to not do bitcoin from a smart phone

18:10:31 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: http://qntra.net/2014/12/judge-rejects-florida-mans-bid-to-dismiss-case/ << d00d in jail for trapping bitcoin

18:10:52 danielpbarron: while the mugger is at it he should get the victim to sign over deed to house and car

18:11:00 NewLiberty: The cop should be in the cell next to him

18:11:21 mircea_popescu: ascii_field> mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then << the general concept being that people will find themselves under so much pressure as the thing advances, that marginals (ie, people who depend on paychecks etc) are prolly in a very weak position to participate anyway.

18:11:31 mircea_popescu: how well this works in practice... well... nothing works well in practice.

18:11:34 PeterL: thestringpuller: first line of your article, s/a place where transactions/a place where transactions happen

18:11:35 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: ok, depends on the quantity and your ability to discern dood from secret agent man

18:11:50 *: ascii_field depends on paycheck

18:12:04 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: see PeterL search and replace

18:12:09 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski> thestringpuller: you can't use bitstamp ? or bitcoin-otc ? or one of those schmancy atms ? << it's bs, all of it. people can trade ~infinity btc/usd without any problems PROVIDED THEYRE IN THE WOT

18:12:14 mircea_popescu: and the people who aren't don't exist anyway.

18:12:47 ascii_field: ^ i can see reverse direction (btc to usd) being problematic. but usd to btc ?

18:12:50 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: yes so this is pretty much like drug dealing. or at least from my limited experience of "riding along" with drug dealers

18:13:06 mircea_popescu: neither's problematic really.

18:13:19 danielpbarron: in my extensive experience in that realm, WoT also applies

18:13:24 mircea_popescu: just, you know, "consumers have come to expect". and they will die with that "expectation".

18:13:31 pete_dushenski: least of all if you have a physical shop.

18:13:37 mircea_popescu: and pretend all along that "no alternatives exist"

18:13:44 mircea_popescu: because why bother, when you can just wail and wait for tit.

18:13:48 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: yes exactly! which goes to point mircea_popescu just brought up

18:13:57 BingoBoingo: fxd

18:13:59 thestringpuller: again I'm only talking about people on fringes of WoT

18:14:00 ascii_field: for folks who aren't subjects of us, try the mindfuck on for size: if a crate of benjamins were to drop from the sky into my yard, there is literally nothing game-changingly useful that i could do with them

18:14:06 ascii_field: they might as well be bricks of Pu

18:14:17 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: seems like this fringes thing is a fence-sitting

18:14:29 pete_dushenski: sort of shit or get off the pot

18:14:38 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: as is the nature of "becoming known" to a plug so you can re-up in the future.

18:14:43 danielpbarron: ascii_field, need to launder?

18:14:43 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're supposed to report it neh ?

18:14:49 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: "you don't know me yet, but lemme build some trust somehow"

18:14:58 danielpbarron: open up a car wash!

18:15:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12884 @ 0.0003954 = 5.0943 BTC [-]

18:15:07 ascii_field: aha. the only thing the hypothetical crate would do is get me moved up a few spots in gassing queue if it got out

18:15:34 ascii_field: hence, no, definitely not equally problematic in both directions

18:15:49 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: then you're dealing with smaller amounts ?

18:16:04 pete_dushenski: and the risk of getting jacked for 11k should be zero

18:16:04 mircea_popescu: ascii_field the guy's 11k are NOT a crate of dollars. barely one brick.

18:16:20 ascii_field: crate - rhetorical illustration

18:16:23 mircea_popescu: your argument reduces to "i can't make a bottling plant out of a gallon of juice". sure.

18:16:54 mircea_popescu: there exist people, and not just in florida, who can get you a pellet of usd 100 notes on a half day notice.

18:17:00 mircea_popescu: for limited values of "you"

18:17:02 ascii_field: at the risk of repeating myself, my rent, for example, is ~2k/mo, and not under any circumstances payable in cash

18:17:10 ascii_field: or through anything other than an american bank

18:17:12 PeterL: ascii_field: you can take cash into grocery store, exchange for food, neh?

18:17:24 mircea_popescu: he doesn't eat.

18:17:30 mircea_popescu: except rw40, which he gets free

18:17:32 ascii_field: mircea_popescu is approximately correct

18:17:36 mircea_popescu: called in a radio show once, got lifetime supply.

18:18:27 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you could buy gift certs.

18:18:38 mircea_popescu: that's what 99% of "otc businessmen" do anyway

18:19:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes. and this one of the very few reliable auto-tipoffs available to the gasenwagen

18:19:39 ascii_field: anyone who buys, say, $50k of gift cert cards in cash, is guaranteed to have some official scrutiny.

18:19:43 mircea_popescu: so pick up nomenklatura daughters, have them do it for you.

18:19:53 ascii_field: now we have human flesh in the loop

18:19:53 mircea_popescu: remember, any systematic weaponry can be turned around the operator.

18:19:57 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: aren't there still political factors involved calling up senator to deliver shipping container of benjies to you?

18:19:57 mircea_popescu: their flesh.

18:20:00 ascii_field: frail flesh.

18:20:04 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller not senator.

18:20:13 thestringpuller: not "jerome" either ;p

18:20:19 danielpbarron: oo speaking of which; if you want to knock someone offline for a spell, open up webchat to b-a from their ip :D

18:20:24 *: ascii_field 's spells don't work on flesh, only on iron

18:20:28 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you don't say lol.

18:20:59 mircea_popescu: ascii_field see, this is how i distinguish a genius geek from a simple geek : the latter programs computer to interact with him. the former, to interact with the girls.

18:21:12 mircea_popescu: lol

18:21:14 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

18:21:18 ascii_field: ty mircea_popescu

18:21:28 ascii_field: interact with the girls ?

18:21:32 ascii_field: dildonics ?

18:21:45 mircea_popescu: no, like, get them to thing it's their bf.

18:21:53 ascii_field: 'eliza'

18:21:53 mircea_popescu: as opposed to "get me to think it's my gf"

18:21:58 mircea_popescu: sort-of.

18:22:09 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: seems only way to avoid gasenwagen in this sense is to become BTC version of pablo escobar...

18:22:27 thestringpuller: and even he really didn't avoid it...

18:22:40 mircea_popescu: well in that sense, clintron "didn't avoid it"

18:22:54 mircea_popescu: or that schmucky someting awful kid, whatever his name was.

18:23:09 thestringpuller: hahaha...ok fair 'nuff

18:23:10 ascii_field: humans-in-the-loop is what -every single person nailed by usg so far- had in common.

18:23:41 mircea_popescu: Sean Smith "didn't avoid it'.

18:23:53 thestringpuller: ascii_field: so create a gang of robots?

18:24:02 ascii_field: not a guarantee of defeat, sure, but machines are exactly as 'loyal' as their operator is clever and conscientious - men are not.

18:24:50 mircea_popescu: "Here's one that even The Onion would reject as too blatantly ridiculous: American right-wing radio and TV clown Glenn Beck believes that Sean Smith aka Vile Rat, the EVE Online diplomat who was killed earlier this month during the attack on the US embassy in Benghazi, was actually a CIA agent, relaying communications to his fellow undercover agents at Something Awful."

18:25:08 mircea_popescu: the only thing that's blatantly ridiculous is that beck forgot to mention where he got it

18:25:22 thestringpuller: ascii_field: this very much reminds me of aku's mentality in Samurai Jack...

18:25:23 mircea_popescu: ascii_field the difference isn't there.

18:25:45 mircea_popescu: but in other news, http://38.media.tumblr.com/e5aaed5ccf96aff39472e37c24742ea8/tumblr_nf0a2d38wn1t7i7kmo1_250.gif

18:25:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19KJ0qO )

18:25:58 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: which difference ?

18:26:10 mircea_popescu: " machines are exactly as 'loyal' as their operator is clever and conscientious - men are not."

18:26:56 ascii_field: a server doesn't have a family the enemy can take hostage

18:26:59 ascii_field: or unpaid debts

18:27:00 ascii_field: etc

18:27:06 mircea_popescu: but it does run thompson's code.

18:27:25 ascii_field: not if you hand-carved it.

18:27:32 mircea_popescu: there are people who don't give a shit about some woman's spawn. more women, mopre spawn.

18:27:41 mircea_popescu: there aren't computers that don't depend on their compilers etc.

18:28:31 ascii_field: cheaper to knit the transistors than to build organization from scratch out of orphan bachelors

18:28:50 mircea_popescu: nothing in principle wrong with either approach, which was the point.

18:29:02 ascii_field: not so many warrior monks on the ground in modern world, afaik

18:29:05 ascii_field: wonder why not

18:29:14 mircea_popescu: not so many clean stacks, either.

18:29:23 mircea_popescu: the difference however ? one's nonzero ; the other 0.

18:29:25 mircea_popescu: ya see ?

18:29:46 mircea_popescu: and again : sean's dead. your argument is therefore invalid.

18:29:57 *: ascii_field looks up reference

18:31:47 thestringpuller: ascii_field: out of orphan bachelors << an organization of Batmans?

18:32:05 mircea_popescu: i never followed that franchise, but did batman have a vallet /

18:32:48 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: where does the dead usg sysadmin come in? somehow missing it

18:33:03 mircea_popescu: dead usg agent was killed by someone. by whom ?

18:33:17 ascii_field: employer

18:33:22 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i never followed that franchise, but did batman have a vallet / << He did indeed

18:33:25 mircea_popescu: eh get out.

18:33:27 ascii_field: who fed him to the locals

18:33:39 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did he ever end up kidnapped by evil man ?

18:34:19 BingoBoingo: The thing's got like 8 decades of history. Prolly happened several times.

18:34:42 mircea_popescu: batman no good then.

18:35:13 NewLiberty: A server has a storage eeprom that the enemy may already have hostage. http://securelist.com/files/2015/02/Equation_group_questions_and_answers.pdf

18:35:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19KM6eo )

18:35:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7576 @ 0.00039555 = 2.9967 BTC [+]

18:35:34 *: ascii_field head-desks

18:35:47 mircea_popescu: lol

18:36:16 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, that's kind of the problem with literature by committee. At some point someone's going to make the thing suck.

18:37:21 ascii_field: NewLiberty: http://qntra.net/2015/02/your-disk-controller-and-you

18:37:21 assbot: Your Disk Controller and You | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/19KMNnO )

18:37:49 chetty: http://observer.com/2015/02/bitcoin-crime-wave-breaks-out-in-nyc/

18:37:50 assbot: Bitcoin Crime Wave Breaks Out in NYC | | Observer ... ( http://bit.ly/19KMYQ9 )

18:38:05 NewLiberty: Yes, the "equation group" are just the ones that have been caught doing it.

18:38:20 ascii_field: 'equation group' == nsa

18:38:26 *: NewLiberty nods

18:38:55 NewLiberty: I don't imagine that they are alone in that effort.

18:38:57 *: pete_dushenski annoyed that there's no cross-platform scrabble game that works between desktop and mobile w/o facefuck account

18:38:59 ascii_field: incidentally, one possible reason for k's use of the fictional name was to streamline the process of getting the c&c domains sinkholed

18:39:33 NewLiberty: They are not dumb.

18:39:33 ascii_field: picture this call to icann: them: 'who' k: 'nsa. please transfer domain to us'

18:39:58 ascii_field: constrained by dumb ~= dumb

18:41:43 BingoBoingo: !up SayWhaatNoow

18:42:06 ascii_field: (previous thread) if mircea_popescu seriously applied his criteria re: who is 'marginal', #b-a would likely be the #mircea_popescu-kakobrekla-jurov channel instead

18:42:48 ascii_field: ^ did i miss any other folks who live on atomic dirigibles and don't 'depend on paycheck'

18:42:49 NewLiberty: Also, plausible deniability for them to avoid making specific enemies. Presumably they like selling things and doing business in jurisdictions where assets can be seized by libelous claims.

18:43:58 ascii_field: NewLiberty: nothing to do with libel suites. notice that not one av vendor on the planet has yet fingered usg in the open. regardless of how obvious (e.g., 'stuxnet') the smoking guns.

18:44:06 ascii_field: because 'av vendors can have problems too'

18:44:30 ascii_field: *suits

18:44:53 NewLiberty: libel is the least of the concerns, but one that alone would be sufficient deterrance

18:45:16 ascii_field: think kaspersky gives a flying fuck re: lawsuits in u.s. courts ?

18:45:28 NewLiberty: Only if they sell anything anywhere for dollars

18:45:56 danielpbarron: i could probably get to a non-fiat point; no kids no car no morgage no wives

18:47:30 ascii_field: danielpbarron: lucky fella, must be 100% theorist. i, for one, couldn't even get any of my experimental supplies without using electric fiat

18:48:26 ascii_field: go and buy so much as a spool of 0805 resistors with btc.

18:48:46 ascii_field: (not even speaking of pcb assembly service, etc)

18:48:59 danielpbarron: couldn't i just pay a guy a premium to buy it for me?

18:49:11 ascii_field: what guy.

18:50:55 danielpbarron: idk, i got a weed guy; shouldn't i also have a fiat guy?

18:51:17 ascii_field: danielpbarron: got one you'd trust to buy 100k-usd of factory time ?

18:51:45 danielpbarron: !up ascii_field

18:51:48 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

18:51:49 ascii_field: ty danielpbarron

18:52:02 ascii_field: danielpbarron: one you'd trust to have the goods physically protected in the necessary ways ?

18:52:05 ascii_field: etc

18:52:14 danielpbarron: that is.. not outside the realm of possibility for me... not that i've made such an inquiry

18:52:23 ascii_field: this is not an easy problem if you're talking about something necessarily high-value and non-parcellable

18:52:42 ascii_field: what if your 'weed' could -only- be purchased in 100k-usd chunks ?

18:52:54 ascii_field: not saying that this is an impossible problem to solve

18:53:13 ascii_field: but that the intersection of folks who -have- the problem, and those able to solve it, is thus far zero

18:53:47 ascii_field: suggesting that the combination is 'not thermodynamically favoured' to borrow the chemists' expression

18:54:39 ascii_field: danielpbarron: that is.. not outside the realm of possibility for me... not that i've made such an inquiry << the odds are that after you were to make two or three such inquiries, you will come across a usg stoolie

18:54:47 ascii_field: with all the usual sequelae.

18:55:08 ascii_field: -that- is what it means to 'go outside wot'

18:55:30 danielpbarron: yeh you're right; but i could pay for simple food/rent from a strictly bitcoin income

18:55:34 NewLiberty: If there were more with the problem ic could be 'worth it' to you to solve it for yourself and others.

18:56:03 ascii_field: NewLiberty: that's precisely the observation i was making: there is no one who has found it worth his while to solve the problem for others

18:56:31 ascii_field: suggesting that there is a substantial '2) ?????' in the path to '3) profit!!11!!!'

18:56:52 BingoBoingo: !b 4

18:56:52 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04W714C.txt )

18:57:50 ascii_field: and yes there are many folks in usa who run on cash

18:58:21 ascii_field: but i for one can more easily comprehend how to move to ar and learn to be a shoemaker or ocelot-walker or whatever, than turning into one of the above

18:58:51 ascii_field: ah and on the subject of gift cards, you can't buy them in usa without gov. id

18:59:25 ascii_field: can't pay rent with them, either

18:59:27 danielpbarron: well you can buy them but you can't activate them

18:59:28 BingoBoingo: I bough pnoHe and minutes cards for said without ID

18:59:37 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: try buying one for 100k

18:59:41 ascii_field: or even 10

18:59:47 NewLiberty: I almost became 'unbanked' this week. I've had >10 accounts terminated by banks this year. It seems with the latest guidance from the Fed, banks categorize 'precious metal dealers' in the same bin as 'arms traders' and 'ponzi operators'.

18:59:49 BingoBoingo: Eventually

18:59:58 ascii_field: the cash register won't 'ding' without a passkey from stalin

19:02:31 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: once you turn said pNohe on from your home, it may as well be registered to your face

19:02:44 ascii_field: it's one of those faux loopholes that's really a honeypot

19:02:47 BingoBoingo: That is problem

19:05:43 BingoBoingo: Stallman was right about those

19:05:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39600 @ 0.00039555 = 15.6638 BTC [+]

19:06:02 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: simple triangulation

19:06:08 ascii_field: no boobie trap needed

19:06:42 BingoBoingo: Right Same principal as Loran

19:08:34 BingoBoingo: !up felipelalli

19:11:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36424 @ 0.00039555 = 14.4075 BTC [+]

19:23:46 felipelalli: hi BingoBoingo!

19:25:29 felipelalli: why only you online today?

19:26:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00039782 = 4.6943 BTC [+]

19:26:51 felipelalli: I have to back to work, have a nice end of day guys!

19:33:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53402 @ 0.00041442 = 22.1309 BTC [+] {2}

19:34:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55548 @ 0.00041943 = 23.2985 BTC [+] {3}

19:49:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.00042082 = 12.8561 BTC [+] {2}

19:53:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67440 @ 0.00039291 = 26.4979 BTC [-] {3}

20:08:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35951 @ 0.00039076 = 14.0482 BTC [-]

20:26:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34582 @ 0.00038215 = 13.2155 BTC [-] {3}

20:26:42 Adlai: "I have to get back to work, have a nice end of days!" - Jesus 2.0

20:27:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15518 @ 0.0003804 = 5.903 BTC [-]

20:42:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63224 @ 0.00037808 = 23.9037 BTC [-] {3}

20:46:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3315 @ 0.00039076 = 1.2954 BTC [+]

20:47:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100858 @ 0.00037728 = 38.0517 BTC [-] {4}

20:53:51 joecool: ddos guy still hang around here?

20:58:39 Adlai: "he who smelt it, dealt it"

21:07:40 TheNewDeal: ;;ticker

21:07:41 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 243.75, Best ask: 244.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 244.0, 24 hour volume: 10233.82057294, 24 hour low: 239.13, 24 hour high: 249.32, 24 hour vwap: 244.603229345

21:18:57 thestringpuller: ;;seen The20YearIRCloud

21:18:57 gribble: The20YearIRCloud was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 10 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 58 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <The20YearIRCloud> Big thing has been to have em look over all the financial documents as we're filing taxes for 2014 next month and I didn't want to submit till they had a good idea of it.

21:19:45 mike_c: he switched to slack. it's irc from silicon valley.

21:26:51 mike_c: !up The20YearIRCloud

21:27:14 The20YearIRCloud: I check in once in a while here and still idle on a few IRC chats, granted I guess slack does a IRC connection as well

21:28:01 mike_c: how's business? stock price seems to be rising.

21:28:06 mike_c: !t h rent

21:28:06 assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.

21:28:31 The20YearIRCloud: Business is good, just have one vacancy on a house we just finished, other than that things seem to be doing well

21:28:45 The20YearIRCloud: Last price was .0117 or so

21:29:01 mike_c: about double from ipo. not too shabby.

21:29:15 mike_c: not quite as good as fiat, but what can you do :)

21:29:18 The20YearIRCloud: We're hovering around the $3/share area

21:30:14 The20YearIRCloud: The big thing was working through the bankrupt shareholder(s) that were forced to liquidate, it took seemingly forever to work through them

21:30:38 mike_c: hah, interesting. sounds like a pain.

21:31:21 The20YearIRCloud: It was, court gave one of our largest shareholders a few months to sell all his stock which led to the price being in a slump for quite some time, now it's all worked through and the price can at least have a chance to rise

21:31:29 The20YearIRCloud: Plus the banks are slowly catching on to our plans

21:31:58 mike_c: wait, were RENT shares actually mentioned in the court proceedings? or just a general order.

21:32:09 The20YearIRCloud: I was told they were

21:33:00 mike_c: heh. that must have been interesting for the court. "see, i have units in a fund of this panamaian company that has shares in this other company"

21:33:30 mike_c: have you given any further thought to unwinding from havelock?

21:33:37 The20YearIRCloud: Definately

21:33:48 The20YearIRCloud: especially with this new down time, the problem is what to do to give investors liquidity

21:34:07 The20YearIRCloud: Just about, granted I think what happens is they require personal financial statements from a person during the proceeding, and he declared ~$40k worth of stock

21:34:25 Adlai: A popular story is told about Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965) when he was running for president in 1952 (or in 1956). Someone heard Stevenson’s impressive speech and said, “Every thinking person in America will be voting for you.” Stevenson replied, “I’m afraid that won’t do—I need a majority.”

21:37:08 Adlai: fuck there are a lot of me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevenson_family

21:37:10 assbot: Stevenson family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/19LJjl1 )

21:38:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75758 @ 0.00037347 = 28.2933 BTC [-] {2}

21:45:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00037961 = 13.59 BTC [+] {2}

22:06:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80700 @ 0.00038386 = 30.9775 BTC [+]

22:28:00 mircea_popescu: ascii_field howdja mean ?

22:29:16 mircea_popescu: ascii_field> what guy << guys!

22:29:24 dignork: !up wawert

22:30:04 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

22:30:16 mircea_popescu: o.O

22:31:10 mircea_popescu: ascii_field> but that the intersection of folks who -have- the problem, and those able to solve it, is thus far zero << this is merely an artefact of your own perspective, is my story an' im stickig to it.

22:32:03 ascii_field: point was trying to make was that mass economics (e.g. weed) are not applicable to ultra-niche affair where there are maybe three people in a continent who can even begin to attempt $task

22:32:44 mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> it's one of those faux loopholes that's really a honeypot << so turn it on at obama's girlfriend's house.

22:33:05 ascii_field: lol, why not brezhnev's girlfriend's house

22:33:14 mircea_popescu: exactly.

22:33:18 ascii_field: quod licet iovi... etc

22:33:25 mircea_popescu: and srsly, 100mn is niche-y, 100k not so.

22:34:49 mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin, the technology that?s meant to revolutionize the way we think of money, is simultaneously revolutionizing the way we get mugged."

22:35:13 mircea_popescu: lol great story bro, except... "gimme your valuables". what's so revolutionary there ?

22:45:00 dignork: mircea_popescu: wawert is the guy I mentioned to you earlier

22:51:14 danielpbarron: !up hdbuck

22:52:56 mircea_popescu: heya.

22:53:17 mircea_popescu: dignork ^

23:10:41 []bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 22(Y):78(N) by coin, 23(Y):77(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.60099479 BTC. Current weight: 95,091.

23:11:14 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

23:11:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you teh girl ?

23:12:32 ascii_field: lol no. pet does not touch the console

23:12:41 ascii_field: but there are some automatics.

23:12:57 asciilifeform: aha

23:13:02 mircea_popescu: lmao

23:13:24 mircea_popescu: alf has finally divided

23:13:29 ascii_field: l0l

23:15:04 cazalla: scoopbot -fetch

23:15:22 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/02/midlothian-police-department-pays-bitcoin-ransom/

23:15:23 assbot: Midlothian, IL Police Department Pays Bitcoin Ransom | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1w6VcfG )

23:15:37 mircea_popescu: another one ?

23:17:00 ascii_field: re: earlier thread: somewhat reminiscent of the 'sling dope' thread on mircea_popescu's www

23:17:48 cazalla: mircea_popescu, i wonder just how much the cops would be willing to pay if ransomware maker crafted it specifically for gov depts and not at home users

23:17:51 ascii_field: in that yes, one skilled in meatspace 'humint' can safely do a 100k trade

23:21:47 mircea_popescu: people work as tellers in pond shops for minimum wage. there's no big deal humint involved.

23:21:57 jurov: http://www.honeyflow.com/ such bezzle. poor bees. wow.

23:21:58 assbot: Honey On Tap From Your Own Beehive - Flow™ Hive Home ... ( http://bit.ly/17khL4I )

23:22:02 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: gotta be born to it

23:22:07 mircea_popescu: bulletproof glass and steel rollers are 10s an 100s

23:22:23 ascii_field: pond shop ?

23:22:39 mircea_popescu: yes. and bookies and what have you. ever seen snatch ?

23:22:44 ascii_field: aha

23:23:22 cazalla: jurov, bad idea?

23:23:24 ascii_field: and picture what happens if someone who grew up with virtually no social skills were to attempt to find a way into world of 'snatch' (much less actually work there)

23:23:37 ascii_field: this is 99% of how usg collects its 'death ray plotters'

23:23:47 ascii_field: 'hey kid, wanna join the terroristz?'

23:23:58 jurov: cazalla not saying it's a bad idea. just "such a bezzle!" came to mind

23:23:59 ascii_field: 'sure, finally i found where to apply!'

23:24:11 cazalla: jurov, and i don't mean your use of it as a metaphor but the thing itself has me interested

23:24:36 mircea_popescu: ascii_field "apply" ?!

23:24:49 mircea_popescu: but i didn't mean "the world" per se. i just mean, idiots try to rob a bookie, goes nowhere. why not ?

23:24:53 []bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1108/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 19.93457636 BTC. Current weight: 44,198.

23:24:58 mircea_popescu: fiddy bucks worth of countermeasures.

23:25:02 cazalla: ah shit, it's useless for using with australian bees

23:25:20 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the countermeasures aren't usually something a clever person can learn from reading books

23:25:33 ascii_field: they involve being part of a social network (in the old meatspace sense)

23:25:40 mircea_popescu: ascii_field really ?! a sane person can learn them by... going there.

23:25:52 ascii_field: going where?

23:26:11 jurov: lmao "How do I stop the bees getting to the honey while it’s draining out of the Flow™ hive?"

23:26:16 mircea_popescu: to any functioning suchshop. "o wow, they have really thick glass and they make me put the stuff in that roller thing"

23:26:17 *: ascii_field looks for 'washington dc black market but not the usg stoolies' phone book

23:26:26 mircea_popescu: go to buy "really thick glass" , "you mean bulletproof ?" "yuah that's ti!"

23:26:28 mircea_popescu: learned.

23:26:54 ascii_field: we don't have legal bookies here

23:27:30 mircea_popescu: pond shops /

23:27:34 mircea_popescu: ?

23:27:44 ascii_field: pawn ?

23:28:00 mircea_popescu: right

23:28:06 ascii_field: aha

23:28:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck i keep saying pond jesus im tired.

23:28:25 NewLiberty: mor polycarbonite (lexan) than glass

23:28:29 ascii_field: yes they exist here. regulated as tightly as gun shops (in fact, the two are often combined into one establishment)

23:28:44 mircea_popescu: so does it consist of guy making incalls like a fucking hooker ?!

23:28:56 ascii_field: neh they look like normal junk stores

23:29:04 ascii_field: except that everything inside is priced to avoid ever selling

23:29:15 ascii_field: ($1000+ 'pentium 3', etc)

23:29:46 ascii_field: the idea, as i understand, is that price is slowly lowered (as debt carries on) until the thing is gone

23:31:53 NewLiberty: hookers and hockers are different, but you can get screwed with both

23:32:04 ascii_field: the pawn shops we have here are more or less the farthest thing from the actual healthy black market (which is, i'm told, vast, but a n00b has no way whatsoever to safely connect to it, which was my original point)

23:32:42 ascii_field: there is a reason why 'silk road' etc were fantastically popular

23:32:52 NewLiberty: They give secured loans with the arbitrary stuff of value as collateral. When the borrower doesn't pay the stuff is sold.

23:33:16 ascii_field: i can only speak for myself, but -no one in my meatspace wot- is any kind of route whatsoever into that world

23:33:28 ascii_field: so i couldn't go there for any amount of money

23:33:43 NewLiberty: I know folks that run some.

23:33:49 ascii_field: not without having the first or second marketeer i'd run into be a usg stooge set up for precisely this kind of harvesting

23:34:53 ascii_field: fortunately i don't need it for anything

23:34:56 jurov: well...van you loan from pawn shop against bitcoins?

23:34:57 ascii_field: but if i did, i'd be fucked.

23:35:00 jurov: *can you

23:35:07 ascii_field: jurov: not in usa!

23:35:36 ascii_field: i mean, you could talk to some arbitrary pawn shop fella about it, but if he fucks you - you will have no recourse

23:35:42 ascii_field: you just dealt with a stranger outside of any wot.

23:35:46 jurov: why? they can't get MSC-registered?

23:35:55 jurov: and how is he going to fuck you?

23:35:55 NewLiberty: http://www.carcashloans.com/

23:35:57 assbot: Car Title Loans and Auto Pawn at Car Cash Loans ... ( http://bit.ly/17kiYcp )

23:36:00 ascii_field: jurov: very funny

23:36:35 jurov: bank can fuck you too, what's the diff?

23:36:49 ascii_field: bank follows well-understood rituals for fucking you

23:36:49 mats: jurov: dunno why the page is down. bright side, the content of those links are easily google-able

23:36:55 ascii_field: which you are generally familiar with when you walk in

23:37:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00038147 = 6.8283 BTC [-]

23:37:52 ascii_field: what's the diff << if you mention bitcoin in a pawn shop here, and aren't thrown out as a nut, you're dealing with -an individual- rather than an institution under any kind of legal constraint

23:37:58 ascii_field: and he isn't in your wot

23:38:13 ascii_field: (if you have someone appropriate in your meatspace wot, why would you be going to a pawn shop ?_

23:38:14 ascii_field: )

23:38:14 NewLiberty: It sounds like a good business idea though. Send your bitcoin to bitcoinpawn, get some fiat loan with it as collateral. Pay back the fiat with interest to reclaim your bitcoins. Miss a payment and you have to buy them back at the retail price.

23:38:29 ascii_field: NewLiberty: guaranteed jail if found

23:38:34 mircea_popescu: ascii_field the problem you espouse is entirely of your own imagination.

23:38:40 mircea_popescu: how do you suppose "those people" got dates ?

23:38:52 NewLiberty: Under what law is this offending?

23:39:09 NewLiberty: It is done with gold rings, etc

23:39:12 ascii_field: NewLiberty: under the book-length morass of regulations pertaining to pawn shops where i live

23:39:34 NewLiberty: Sure, the presumption is that you do it as a pawn shop.

23:39:40 ascii_field: but to be fair i thought we were still speaking of btc-for-100kusd-spent-elsewhere trick

23:39:40 NewLiberty: This is not hard

23:40:03 danielpbarron: i gave my bank manager a "paper wallet" one time; they think i'm some crazy, but mostly harmless, coin collector

23:40:20 ascii_field: the basic problem that remains unsolved is -what to do with the usd-

23:40:46 ascii_field: granted, i am possibly the only one here who understands why this can be an insurmountable problem

23:41:24 *: danielpbarron understands that most of the things worth buying are heavily watched and regulated in the USSA

23:41:31 danielpbarron: !up ascii_field

23:41:36 ascii_field: ty danielpbarron

23:41:42 mircea_popescu: this is getting to gnarled up to be approached. i'm out.

23:41:54 ascii_field: basic summary, for those remaining,

23:42:44 jurov: i was thinking you just need to prove where you got the dough

23:42:53 ascii_field: jurov: and pay extortionate tax

23:43:17 ascii_field: and risk being billed again and again for other imagined tax liabilities

23:43:20 danielpbarron: haven't mobsters been dealing with this problem since.. always?

23:43:28 ascii_field: and go on a list of folks with 'funny' income

23:43:45 ascii_field: danielpbarron: yes! they have. by being part of social networks that are empire-in-empire

23:44:02 ascii_field: danielpbarron: but a random person off the street cannot enter that world simply by asking.

23:50:33 NewLiberty: ^^ yes, my friend that does this has household expenses >US$50K per month. Not your average person on the street.

23:51:45 NewLiberty: Also a lawyer, and owns law firms full of folks to keep him out of problems.

23:52:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10433 @ 0.00038147 = 3.9799 BTC [-]

23:57:38 mod6: ;;ticker

23:57:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16952 @ 0.00038147 = 6.4667 BTC [-]

23:57:39 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 245.58, Best ask: 245.9, Bid-ask spread: 0.32000, Last trade: 244.9, 24 hour volume: 9358.73386673, 24 hour low: 239.41, 24 hour high: 249.32, 24 hour vwap: 244.90114208

23:58:41 mod6: !t m s.mpoe

23:58:41 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00037076 / 0.00040233 / 0.00042832 (3558254 shares, 1,431.63 BTC), 7D: 0.00035551 / 0.0004173 / 0.00047394 (16948394 shares, 7,072.69 BTC), 30D: 0.00030001 / 0.0004018 / 0.00053193 (83261553 shares, 33,454.75 BTC)