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Transcript for 20-03-2015, 2631 lines:

00:00:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36894 @ 0.0002822 = 10.4115 BTC [+]

00:08:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17450 @ 0.00028461 = 4.9664 BTC [+]

00:29:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogo_crate.jpg

00:29:20 asciilifeform: ^ in today.

00:29:28 asciilifeform: there's no shortage of'em here.

00:29:39 BingoBoingo: Beautiful

00:29:41 asciilifeform: (ordered - tues.)

00:30:39 *: BingoBoingo spent some time today looking longingly looking at sun blade 150's (model I did not know existed or had forgotten about) on Ebay.

00:32:52 asciilifeform: lol, why?!

00:33:47 asciilifeform: though a 'sun ray' might make an interesting openbsd box

00:34:54 BingoBoingo: Does the sun ray have any compute power of its own? Blade 150 looked interesting because somewhat portable pizza box form, IDE drives, and good old VGA monitor hookups.

00:35:07 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it has some ultra-miniature sparc iirc

00:35:14 BingoBoingo: Ah

00:35:18 asciilifeform: tiny little thing

00:35:24 asciilifeform: sorta like a 'pogo'

00:35:47 asciilifeform: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Blade_(workstation)#/media/File:Sunblade1500.jpg << lol 'coke' machine

00:35:48 assbot: Sun Blade (workstation) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/197UKTh )

00:36:17 BingoBoingo: Blade 150 seemed to offer some compute power while also offering more EM shielding than its Blade 100 bredecessor

00:37:11 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I liked that form factor. Just looking at the models that slice a zero off of the model number atm.

00:37:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the most 'shieldy' box i've ever personally owned was a hp 'visualize'

00:37:19 asciilifeform: http://karilavikka.fi/gfx/sekalaista_tauhkaa/hp/j5600/151_5183.JPG << not mine but very similar

00:37:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/197V6sZ )

00:37:36 asciilifeform: emf mesh behind all openings

00:37:39 BingoBoingo: It's a beautiful thing

00:37:44 asciilifeform: everything, incl. mb, slid out on rails

00:37:55 asciilifeform: all or mostly all steel, mad-heavy

00:38:14 asciilifeform: the power supply also slid out

00:38:34 asciilifeform: (at one point had spare, old one - exploded capacitor, filled dorm floor with smoke)

00:39:00 asciilifeform: funny thing, it sat in my old flat for... 7 years, in the kitchen closet, filled with rat shit

00:39:12 asciilifeform: when moving last year - left it on the kerb. and someone picked it up...

00:39:26 BingoBoingo: I dunno what it is with your flavor of swamp and rats

00:39:51 asciilifeform: what, where BingoBoingo lives there are no rats ?

00:39:56 BingoBoingo: Maybe here there just isn't enough of a niche for them between mice and racoons

00:40:12 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Southern Illinois, about 30 miles east of East StL

00:40:14 asciilifeform: huge rats here, straight out of the ratfacecage scene in '1984'

00:40:24 asciilifeform: at night they walk, you can see'em

00:40:51 asciilifeform: incidentally i often wonder if the ratfacecage is still in fashion somewhere

00:40:59 BingoBoingo: I've only here ever seen rats purchased from petstore.

00:41:31 asciilifeform: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--x5WK3_Zo--/fzogcaspzsoynnfdqeg2.jpg

00:41:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CCmg9d )

00:41:32 BingoBoingo: At night walking I see plenty of cats, coons, groundhogs, foxes, and coyotes. Haven't ever identified a rat

00:41:44 asciilifeform: ^ from, i think, one of the film versions

00:42:08 BingoBoingo: I think I may have seen that version

00:42:22 BingoBoingo: We've also got fucktons of squirrels

00:42:42 asciilifeform: https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5924387/il_fullxfull.223598961.jpg

00:42:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CCmwoE )

00:43:00 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogo_crate.jpg << woah!

00:43:39 mod6: <+funkenstein_> i tested the 0.5.3 build on an old ubuntu box, built like a charm << nice! thanks for the info

00:43:45 BingoBoingo: Maybe here the rats know to stay in the farm fields, but... They don't seem endemic here like the mice do.

00:44:14 BingoBoingo: Mice plainly exist here get into the birdseed and shit all over the garage.

00:44:17 asciilifeform: l0l, looking for the r4tc4g3 found - http://www.protogermanic.com/2012/02/power-tends-to-corrupt-absolute-power.html


00:44:26 asciilifeform: ^ mega-lulzatron

00:50:41 cazalla: bloody mother in laws who give their daughters the idea that you need a new car simply because the old one is looking old (despite being fucking fine mechanically wise)

00:50:50 asciilifeform: waiwat

00:51:43 hanbot: maybe she wants the old one.

00:53:14 cazalla: hanbot, nope, she has a merc to drive around in, mcmansion etc (all paid for by the long dead but rich father in law mind you)

00:53:37 hanbot: so then maybe she could buy you a new one.

00:53:49 cazalla: if there is anything that gets my blood pressure sky rocketing, it's people tell me or someone close to me how i should spend money on useless shit

00:53:55 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Are they interested in purchasing the Saturn of Supremacy?

00:54:45 cazalla: BingoBoingo, god forbid she drive around in anything less than brand new!

00:54:57 BingoBoingo: cazalla: But battle tested.

00:55:00 asciilifeform: cazalla clearly has insufficient reputation for poverty

00:55:32 hanbot: for australia or generally?

00:55:38 cazalla: asciilifeform, you have no idea i tells ya

00:56:22 asciilifeform: cultivate this reputation.

00:56:30 asciilifeform: it may well save your skin

00:57:15 BingoBoingo: This Saturn sedan has forded roads deeper than the floor of the passenger compartment, traveled to the other side of a divided freeway, and still burns fuel like a miser

00:58:04 asciilifeform: possibly the most dangerous animal to be in the lands of usg (and au, as i understand, is a kind of target practice range for usg idiocies) is the fella with just enough to be worth skinning, but three or four zeroes short of mircea_popescu-esque atomic dirigible where he can hit back

00:58:09 cazalla: even if bitcoin was 10k per, a brand new car is an extravagance i would not spring for

00:58:19 asciilifeform: *endangered animal

00:58:24 asciilifeform: (rather than dangerous)

00:59:20 BingoBoingo: Brand new car is the worst possible expense in the Anglophone world. Nearly half the sticker price goes straight to the fire.

00:59:29 asciilifeform: was about to say

00:59:38 asciilifeform: i'd rather fill a suitcase with benjies & publicly burn it

00:59:40 asciilifeform: than buy a new car

01:00:14 BingoBoingo: If it came to replacing my current vehicle I'd prolly start looking at used police crown vics

01:00:42 mircea_popescu: mod6 got tons more of thems.

01:01:13 BingoBoingo: Question: Is chav capitalized or not in proper usage?

01:01:30 asciilifeform: mod6 is passing'em out or running personally

01:02:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82160 @ 0.00028555 = 23.4608 BTC [+]

01:03:52 *: BingoBoingo wonders if Big endian bitcoind will happen before all of the blockchain passes the 127 GB most interesting of such machines are limited to.

01:04:07 BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr How goes Big endian bitcoind

01:04:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo is welcome to build it bigendian now

01:04:17 Luke-Jr: I believe it's merged.

01:04:57 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I need working hardware. In the past I've treated such bexen as too disposable. Ingnored fans cries for help.

01:05:03 BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Cool.

01:05:07 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: remember http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/kirkwood/assets/FS_88F6180_9x_6281_OpenSource.pdf ?

01:05:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1980b4w )

01:05:17 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'pogo' contains a switchable-endianness micro

01:05:18 BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Is this on pre or post leveldb?

01:05:25 cazalla: asciilifeform, my reputation for poverty IRL might not match with what goes on here simply because the one thing i will spend money on is food/drink.. every unit i've rented furnished with second hand goods, i've purchased clothing from the same places (mind you, have not purchased clothing in at least 2 years)

01:05:37 Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: post of course. LevelDB is part of the Bitcoin consensus protocol now.

01:06:01 asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ?

01:06:15 BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: LevelDB bitcoin doesn't build on my favored *nix at all.

01:06:17 Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now

01:06:23 Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: no? :o

01:06:28 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: it is necessarily

01:06:42 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: but why does it matter on protocol level what kind of db is used locally ?

01:06:49 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol

01:06:58 Luke-Jr: which is inherently defined by the code

01:07:11 BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: OpenBSD. I had the choice of debugging a bunch of wank or reverting to 0.7.2 and hand patching.

01:07:26 Luke-Jr: if leveldb fails to insert a UTXO, then a transaction creating that UTXO is invalid by the consensus rules

01:07:31 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: but why does it matter on protocol level what kind of db is used locally ?

01:07:49 Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: ah, hm. I wonder how easily just adding some OpenBSD checks similar to the FreeBSD ones would go

01:07:56 BingoBoingo: Some people had built 0.9.x -sh on openbsd according to stories but no recipies were supplied

01:08:00 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: consensus protocols are not like network protocols

01:08:28 asciilifeform: yes but why 'leveldb.' say i'd like to use a db which runs on a martian trinary computer and writes bits to miniature dead babies turned in one of two directions

01:08:51 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if it is not bug-for-bug compatible with LevelDB, someone can fork you off the network

01:08:51 asciilifeform: how does consensus care, so long as i answer queries in precisely same way as 'leveldb' user

01:08:56 BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Well for openbsd builds fired live the big change isn't db at all, but in wallet.cpp changing the random call to a better one (should not be necessary in -current or 5.7)

01:09:03 midnightmagic: NetBSD builds and syncs to head almost trivially now.

01:09:18 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if you emulate LevelDB perfectly, you are fine, correct

01:09:44 midnightmagic: Linux on PPC builds and syncs to head based on the bigendian patch. I have not verified it against a current git yet.

01:09:58 BingoBoingo: midnightmagic> NetBSD builds and syncs to head almost trivially now. << But so much memory unsafety

01:10:04 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: can you give an example of a 'wedge' which could be pounded in to create this fork ?

01:10:13 midnightmagic: BingoBoingo: hm?

01:10:18 asciilifeform: there are still plenty of non-'leveldb' nodes operating

01:10:30 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit

01:10:42 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: since fixed

01:10:52 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: know of another ?

01:10:52 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: yes, but not without a fork

01:10:53 BingoBoingo: midnightmagic: Example of a NetBSD problem set. http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/invented-by-openbsd

01:10:54 assbot: invented by openbsd ... ( http://bit.ly/1981kJA )

01:10:59 midnightmagic: asciilifeform: it's coincidence. if there is ever an insert which succeeds in leveldb but fails in bdb, those nodes will no longer be capable of sync'ing to head.

01:11:02 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if we knew about it, it wouldn't exist anymore ;)

01:12:18 Luke-Jr: a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures

01:12:35 Luke-Jr: that's a consensus rule based on old versions of OpenSSL code

01:12:57 midnightmagic: asciilifeform: most those problems I've read so far are only problems if you let randos log in to your bitcoind box. I personally would not be interested in running a non-dedicated bitcoind box on any OS.

01:13:06 asciilifeform: ^

01:13:30 asciilifeform: but midnightmagic is thinking of security, rather than forkholes

01:14:44 asciilifeform: !up Luke-Jr

01:14:53 Luke-Jr: "forkholes" *are* security relevant

01:14:54 BingoBoingo: <Luke-Jr> a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures << Has the problem of people creating such sigs really happened outside of the goxnode retardation beginning block 168001?

01:15:03 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: if the usg charlatans want to create a fork with incompatible tx validation rules, they are welcome to.

01:15:17 midnightmagic: asciilifeform: the thing I'd be more concerned about was the recent non-random random number generator they committed to released versions.

01:15:29 Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: if someone wants to trick you into accepting an invalid block, they can use this to do so

01:15:31 midnightmagic: asciilifeform: they dodged a bullet and nobody's called them on it

01:15:36 asciilifeform: midnightmagic: freebsd turned stool pigeon long ago

01:15:42 asciilifeform: midnightmagic: when it ditched gcc

01:15:50 BingoBoingo: ^

01:16:18 BingoBoingo: The entire FreeBSD 10 series is a replay of the 5 series retardation on steroids

01:16:20 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork.

01:16:54 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: let's insert a link to the old thread here, so we don't have to repeat it.

01:16:56 BingoBoingo: ^ Noone used Theos NetBSD fork in 1996

01:17:18 Luke-Jr: OSs are not a consensus system

01:17:22 midnightmagic: how is it a stool pigeon?

01:17:46 mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i don't think anyoine's using them anymore seriously.

01:17:49 midnightmagic: Also, I don't know much about FreeBSD except they caught their shitty /dev/random mistake before it was released to production

01:17:55 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#985417 << that one

01:17:55 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 03:29:14; mircea_popescu: !up Luke-Jr

01:18:11 asciilifeform: midnightmagic: it -was- released to production

01:18:16 asciilifeform: plenty of folks run -CURRENT

01:18:20 asciilifeform: i had a box with it, for instance

01:18:31 midnightmagic: asciilifeform: it was released to -current, running -current is explicitly disclaimed.

01:18:52 BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr> OSs are not a consensus system << No but every OS fork is a far less grave experiment actual onsensus systems must consider

01:18:58 midnightmagic: yeah, I run -current on NetBSD occasionally too..

01:19:00 midnightmagic: :-(

01:19:17 asciilifeform: folks doing dev work of one kind or another - run 'current'

01:19:24 asciilifeform: whether like it or not.

01:19:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058571 << what the fuck % packaging is that ?

01:19:26 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:29:13; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pogo_crate.jpg

01:19:36 mircea_popescu: the actual unit is tiny, makes the crate look like it's 60% packaging

01:19:44 midnightmagic: yeah, kernel devs. In context, running bitcoind on -current, probably not a great idea given extensive -current history of breakage

01:19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's mostly cardboard, as you can tell

01:20:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't intend to bring the cardboard

01:20:20 midnightmagic: like the really unfortunate backout of the M:N threading model on NetBSD. that was a sad time.

01:20:50 mircea_popescu: threading works on netbsd ?

01:21:06 asciilifeform: threading works on any posix

01:21:27 mircea_popescu: i tyhought they were stuggling with getting it to work.

01:21:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99387 @ 0.00029365 = 29.185 BTC [+] {2}

01:21:33 mircea_popescu: musta misread.

01:21:41 *: asciilifeform shudders to imagine a unixlike os where threading flakes

01:21:52 mircea_popescu: bsd is bsdlike neh ?

01:22:08 midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: M:N threading was a solaris-like, more-performant-than N:N threading model that nate committed to netbsd, but due to its complexity had to be backed out because nobody could maintain it or reliably fix bugs in it.

01:22:24 mircea_popescu: aha

01:22:25 asciilifeform: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/share/misc/bsd-family-tree?view=markup

01:22:27 assbot: [base] Contents of /head/share/misc/bsd-family-tree ... ( http://bit.ly/1xkJqyR )

01:22:27 midnightmagic: idea was, only spawn additional *kernel* threads to service user threads where it was absolutely necessary

01:23:09 midnightmagic: breakfast-time, sorry to derail convo

01:23:13 *: midnightmagic waves

01:25:30 *: BingoBoingo really dislikes the way leveldb handles memory.

01:26:11 *: BingoBoingo would rather not have to run a Bitcoind in -leper mode if he gets more powerful sparc hardware

01:26:22 asciilifeform: the 'bug for bug' thing is set to be an actual problem in the future.

01:27:05 BingoBoingo: It is, just like in TeX but more urgent

01:27:07 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2015#1034831

01:27:07 assbot: Logged on 26-02-2015 21:24:28; mircea_popescu: you're stuck with that. how do you think the original fork happened.

01:27:09 asciilifeform: ^ that thread.

01:27:16 mircea_popescu: myeah.

01:27:25 Luke-Jr: well, LevelDB is being excluded from libbitcoinconsensus at least

01:27:35 mircea_popescu: only way to manage it i can think of at the moment is disallowing the power ranger imbeciles from further commits

01:27:45 mircea_popescu: this having already been done... we'll have to figure something out.

01:28:08 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: bug-for-bug is okay if all consensus code is kept carefully audited

01:28:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dare say i did figure out. but not enough hands here.

01:28:12 Luke-Jr: ignoring CPU issues..

01:28:19 mircea_popescu: no rush anyway.

01:28:24 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: try to understand the actual scope of such an audit

01:28:31 BingoBoingo: At the time of the 2013 fork I humbly though resolution would be possible. I mean it is just making DB's agree. Yet... LevelDB is a mess.

01:28:35 asciilifeform: should be enough to make your stomach do pirouettes

01:28:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058647 <>< not.

01:28:55 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:01:13; BingoBoingo: Question: Is chav capitalized or not in proper usage?

01:29:08 asciilifeform: i thought it was 'chavv'

01:29:11 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: K, working on that UK piece

01:29:36 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, it is one syllible

01:29:52 asciilifeform: do we even get a 'vv' in engl. and if so, what human sound does it correspond to

01:30:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058662 << lol best not ask.

01:30:26 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:01; asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ?

01:30:37 asciilifeform: i can picture how

01:30:42 asciilifeform: but was hoping the answer is something else

01:30:57 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You don't ger such sound it corresponds to choking on saliva

01:31:00 mircea_popescu: through a bunch of ignorant twerps using words they don't understand the meaning of, in the context of their self-allocated importance ?

01:31:07 asciilifeform: aha how else

01:31:15 *: asciilifeform has understood that there is not an else

01:31:29 mircea_popescu: i'm sure it'll do just as well as all preivious rehashes of this process.

01:31:35 BingoBoingo: Anyone have a link for britania's private key siezure turding?

01:31:49 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there was one in here around 12 hrs ago

01:32:16 *: BingoBoingo is atm only on the fall of the empire

01:33:35 Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: you audit only the changes

01:33:52 BingoBoingo: thx

01:33:54 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: the changes being contemplated involve losing 100% of the original

01:33:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058664 << contrary to what you might have erroneously come to believe a) 0.5.1 version as printed by the bitcoin foundation is the cannonical version of bitcoin ; b) various groups of scammers trying to attack bitcoin are continuously pushing their own versions of solidcoin, which has all the importance of ms boring's bitcoin chamber of commerce.

01:33:54 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:17; Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now

01:33:57 Luke-Jr: it's managable with a single implementation

01:34:06 mircea_popescu: "only audit the changes" ?

01:34:41 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: in the old thread, that is; it was about a hypothetical clean re-implementation of the whole thing

01:35:15 asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: and there mircea_popescu observed that such a thing would have to come with a strong proof of equivalence to be worth taking seriously

01:35:21 mircea_popescu: where does all this braindamage stem from, seriously. what's the difference between an "only audit the changes auditing process" and dead reckoning ?

01:35:33 BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez

01:35:52 mircea_popescu: every time you change anything you're stuck auditing the whole thing you changed./

01:36:02 asciilifeform: ^

01:36:13 asciilifeform: what kind of dope does one need to take to even imagine otherwise ?

01:36:37 mircea_popescu: same dope that they weren't smart tosling in the first place.

01:36:37 asciilifeform: but apparently this dope is being passed out, because i routinely run into folks who have this kind of mental bug

01:36:39 mircea_popescu: ended up eating it.

01:36:56 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-03-2015#1043874

01:36:56 assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 02:28:39; asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'

01:37:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058668 << gotta admire the insistence on branding. here's a thought : gavin's neck was broken in public. you don't come out of that by inventing a new word to try and rally support around.

01:37:32 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:49; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol

01:37:47 mircea_popescu: you don't have support, principally because you were not good enough, and failed to grasp this in time.

01:37:49 asciilifeform: for a corpse, he's doing a good deal of dancing.

01:38:02 mircea_popescu: not my fault usg is into necrophillia.

01:38:19 mircea_popescu: but in his defense, pretty much his entire career consists of party entertainment in costume, so...

01:38:20 asciilifeform: pyronecrocryptozoophilia.

01:39:30 thestringpuller: lol cryptophilia

01:40:32 asciilifeform: 'consensus' is a beloved usg-ism >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2014#926290

01:40:32 assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 04:49:54; asciilifeform: all you have to do, then, is to pile on the meat puppets, until suddenly there is a 'controversy', and there are 'points of view', and eventually - a 'consensus.'

01:40:33 brendafdez: i thought you may want ot have a laugh and it seems it wasn't shared here yet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/18/want_to_dodge_nsa_supply_chain_taps_ask_cisco_for_a_dead_drop/

01:40:34 assbot: Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/18NafQH )

01:40:48 brendafdez: "

01:40:48 brendafdez: Cisco has poked around its routers for possible spy chips, but to date has not found anything because it necessarily does not know what NSA taps may look like, according to Stewart." :D

01:41:01 asciilifeform: what a muppet show

01:41:02 mircea_popescu: anyway, for the sake of historical accuracy, re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058687 : bitcoin STILL USES the bdb protocol.

01:41:02 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:10:30; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit

01:41:03 asciilifeform: 'spy chips'

01:41:11 mircea_popescu: leveldb has mostly been beaten into submission to it.

01:41:19 mircea_popescu: but the first time it didn't submit its chain was abandoned

01:41:28 mircea_popescu: and the second time it won't, if that happens, its chain will be also abandoned.

01:41:57 mircea_popescu: i can see why the gavin troop would like the defense of "we have already moved the protocol once" to rely on, but it's simply not true.

01:42:46 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: With Cisco the NSA spying likely begins on the main silicon out of the factory

01:42:55 mircea_popescu: ^

01:43:05 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't ask cisco for their own heads on a platter.

01:43:11 asciilifeform: begins with every fart of the program design and ends with the crate which is opened yet again for good measure

01:43:21 asciilifeform: simply to be loudly found out and distract from above.

01:43:33 brendafdez: Don't be so mean, they are busy looking for the spy chips

01:43:38 mircea_popescu: im kinda surprised cisco still pretends to be in business

01:43:41 asciilifeform: and for the wreckerz

01:43:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how about that one! they've not sold anything to anyone since last year. and yet...

01:43:52 asciilifeform: for the враги народа

01:44:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they sell to the usual captive audience, that suffices

01:44:10 mircea_popescu: right right.

01:44:16 asciilifeform: plus the consumer crud (linksys) they bought out

01:44:31 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: Spy chips are what keep Cisco in business

01:45:06 asciilifeform: !up Luke-Jr

01:46:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058711 << lmao. newer versions are forks, yo. that's the definition of the words.

01:46:52 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:16:20; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork.

01:47:25 brendafdez: Oh, that's sad, I though I knew eho they'd just hired to look for them. "Yeah I suppose the sad story in here is that if you show supposedly literate teenagers the insides of a USB stick they may be seeing it for the first time, and if you demand they point out the actual memory cores to save their lives they may well not be able to." http://fraudsters.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/#comment-95546

01:47:25 assbot: How to airgap. A practical guide. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18NbTBW )

01:47:26 mircea_popescu: and no, bitcoin's rules are not defined by "what people use".

01:48:08 mircea_popescu: if that were the actual criteria, then "bitcoin" would be green and printed on paper.

01:48:13 mircea_popescu: cotton paper, to be exact.

01:48:16 asciilifeform: !b 3

01:48:17 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3Z6902M.txt )

01:48:57 mircea_popescu: the bitcoin rules are defined by what important people use, and as it happens gavin & co are unimportant.

01:49:24 mircea_popescu: to no-one's surprise except i guess a coupla code monkeys here and there who really bought the "doocracy" koolaid.

01:54:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146300 @ 0.00029711 = 43.4672 BTC [+] {3}

01:54:28 asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/26/feature_zayo_fibre_network_in_london_sewers << vintage but stimulating

01:54:29 assbot: Dark Fibre: Reg man plunges into London's sewers to see how pipe is laid • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/18Ndjw9 )

01:55:06 *: asciilifeform likes the term 'brown fiber' used in this article, wonders if actual extant term of art or neologism

01:55:56 mircea_popescu: prolly what the crews called it since forever.

01:56:20 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 got tons more of thems. << hmm?

01:56:34 mircea_popescu: pogos.

01:56:42 mod6: ahh.

01:56:55 mod6: yeah, gotta get me one and try it out

01:56:56 asciilifeform: 'you?re not going to find a cable poking up in the loo of a data centre when it reaches its destination.' << at one point there was a vendor who pushed a 'robotic rat' for doing precisely this

01:57:01 mircea_popescu: mod6 definitely.

01:57:07 mod6: maybe i'll order one this coming week

01:57:15 mircea_popescu: especially seeing how the ~60 or so nodes left running are really not enough for 2012.

02:01:31 mircea_popescu: and speakin' o travel, http://41.media.tumblr.com/7c1f649d6b585953dc5e85ea0a3f37ce/tumblr_mwelg6qym41s9rg6lo1_1280.jpg

02:01:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDyRc5 )

02:05:52 BingoBoingo: I wish Scotland would have seceeded so I could justify writing "Lower Britain" more often

02:06:41 BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez

02:11:01 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

02:11:02 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 262.96, Best ask: 263.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 263.0, 24 hour volume: 67036.12085919, 24 hour low: 250.33, 24 hour high: 269.5, 24 hour vwap: None

02:12:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 243205 @ 0.00030067 = 73.1244 BTC [+] {4}

02:15:52 danielpbarron: why does gribble's vwap go away whenever there's the slightest volatility? and why does the vwap work if you get a quote in terms of ounces of gold?

02:15:58 BingoBoingo: !uo n3xtb1gthng

02:16:01 BingoBoingo: !up decimation

02:16:22 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Because it moved from deadstamp to buttfines

02:16:39 danielpbarron: it did it on buttstamp too

02:16:48 *: BingoBoingo inquires if there are any good proofreaders active atm that could serve the qntra

02:17:00 danielpbarron: i am

02:17:08 decimation: lol 'consensus rules'

02:17:52 BingoBoingo: !up n3xtb1gthng

02:18:01 n3xtb1gthng: thanks BingoBoingo

02:18:51 n3xtb1gthng: what's new guys?

02:20:36 mod6: <+Luke-Jr> asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the fork. << not true. i'm using it.

02:21:02 BingoBoingo: n3xtb1gthng: Well, a bitcoind build that is bigendian friendly for PPC, SPARC, and 68000 would be the tits

02:21:44 n3xtb1gthng: do those arcs run bitcoin today? (standard bitcoin)

02:22:37 BingoBoingo: !up nubbins`

02:23:05 nubbins`: ty

02:23:55 mod6: !up Luke-Jr

02:24:25 Luke-Jr: mod6: on what listening IP?

02:24:42 mod6: a routable one :)

02:25:04 Luke-Jr: I'd like to investigate why my crawler isn't picking it up

02:25:58 mod6: http://dpaste.com/3W20RWJ

02:25:59 assbot: dpaste: 3W20RWJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1B8h5Hg )

02:26:19 Luke-Jr: 8 connections generally means not listening

02:26:43 mod6: o.O how is it syncing blocks then?

02:27:04 Luke-Jr: outbound connections

02:27:33 mod6: tcp 0 0* LISTEN

02:27:39 Luke-Jr:

02:28:00 Luke-Jr: is not routable, so this tells me nothing.

02:28:12 brendafdez: BingoBoingo I'm available, too. Not sure about the 'good' part, though.

02:28:35 mod6: hmm. derp.

02:29:08 mod6: one sec.

02:30:33 danielpbarron: is bitcoind still giving out version numbers to other nodes?

02:31:01 Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: of course

02:31:02 []bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 143.1676222 BTC. Current weight: 47,015.

02:31:04 []bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 103.31517126 BTC. Current weight: 88,245.

02:31:07 []bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 143.1676222 BTC. Current weight: 47,015.

02:31:43 n3xtb1gthng: is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)?

02:32:10 n3xtb1gthng: seigniorage would incentivize spending and usage/adoption. (even at a very moderate leve.)

02:32:43 danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, that is the kind of thing bitcoin has come to destroy

02:33:18 Luke-Jr: n3xtb1gthng: in what sense? it costs more to mine bitcoins than you get already

02:33:44 danielpbarron: arguably, bitcoin *is* doing that thought, as it only costs what? 150 USD worth of electricty to mine 1 bitcoin which should be worth millions of USD

02:34:48 n3xtb1gthng: Luke-Jr, I mean if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it).

02:34:57 danielpbarron: and why would we want to incentivize spending?? doesn't that goal contradict "mass adoption" ?

02:35:00 n3xtb1gthng: I mean a low percentage of seigniorage, not like 10% inflation or anything.

02:35:12 danielpbarron: "hey you! adopt this! ok now spend it! get rid of it! quick!"

02:35:12 n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, ?? spending = mass adoption

02:35:32 n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, I'm totally unclear. spending literally == (=========) adoption, when it comes to a currency?

02:35:33 danielpbarron: bitcoin is currently inflating

02:35:42 mod6: goddamnit im retarded

02:35:42 Luke-Jr: n3xtb1gthng: such a thing would violate the social contract; altcoins don't have a preexisting social contract to adhere to

02:35:45 n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, it's losing value, not inflaitng.

02:35:57 danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, spending is literally the opposite of adopting as you are necessarily getting rid of the thing you are spending

02:36:09 PeterL: saving == adoption

02:36:12 danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, 3.6k bitcoin are created daily

02:36:15 trinque: Luke-Jr: what "social contract" does bitcoin have?

02:36:37 n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, I disagree. if twenty people are trading seashells at a rate of twenty trades happen per day, that is high adotpion. at the rate of 1 seashell gets traded per year, that is low adotpion. adoption = spending.

02:36:54 danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, what altcoin are you here to pump?

02:36:58 n3xtb1gthng: none

02:37:00 cazalla: oh look n3xtb1gthng is yet another person suggesting i spend my money, gtfo

02:37:25 n3xtb1gthng: cazalla you can both spend money and get money? The definition of a 'currency' is just a unit you do this in?

02:37:47 mircea_popescu: <n3xtb1gthng> is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)? << about the same sort of philosophical reason as not building a tail into you.

02:37:51 mircea_popescu: like some other monkeys have done.

02:38:04 n3xtb1gthng: cazalla - I mean if you didn't want the possibility of spending it, how is it even money? It's only money because you know people will accept it :) :) And that comes from the fact that they accept everyone else's - i.e. high adoption.

02:38:13 PeterL: trinque: the "social contract" of bitcoin is the "spec" as laid out by satoshi in the white paper

02:38:35 trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase

02:38:46 n3xtb1gthng: If someone isn't receiving hundreds of bitcoins per day from any other source, how do you know they will accept yours? And if you don't know they will accept yours, how do you know that you hold money? adoption = acceptance and usage

02:38:48 brendafdez: <Luke-Jr> if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it). << sounds like keynesian braindamage

02:38:50 cazalla: n3xtb1gthng, if people willingly accept my worthless dollars, i would be foolish to give them something of actual value eh

02:39:34 brendafdez: If that was a feature, we'd be using Freicoin

02:39:37 mircea_popescu: !down n3xtb1gthng

02:39:39 cazalla: anyway i don't need this aggravation, had enough of it today

02:39:50 danielpbarron: n3xtb1gthng, as long as MPEx accepts my coin I'm alright with it

02:39:59 mircea_popescu: srsly, random shitheads know what things are now. what is this, the future ?

02:40:26 mircea_popescu: ...

02:40:54 mircea_popescu: Jun 07 17:31:33 * ninjashogun (~User@catv-212-96-61-236.catv.broadband.hu) has joined #bitcoin-assets

02:41:05 mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, all the idiots are the same one idiot.

02:41:05 cazalla: lol

02:41:19 mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.

02:42:02 trinque: hungary for attention?

02:42:16 mod6: Luke-Jr: anyway, im trying to listen on -port=8333 but i think aws is doing something funny.

02:42:41 *: brendafdez fucked it, I thought it was Luke-Jr saying that shit.

02:42:54 Luke-Jr: mod6: IIRC AWS has some kind of firewall by default

02:43:18 trinque: Luke-Jr: yep, gotta enable things in the security group

02:44:17 Luke-Jr: anyhow, wife demands me in bed, so ttyl

02:45:18 decimation: mod6: you gotta turn off the firewall in aws/ec2

02:45:21 decimation: for every port of interest

02:45:54 trinque: mod6: note you can open it only for another security group

02:46:03 decimation: look under the 'security groups' column in your instance

02:46:15 decimation: imma compiling aws now too

02:46:16 trinque: that's convenient if you're going ec2 -> ec2

02:46:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i instantly knew who it was

02:46:43 *: mod6 hangs head

02:46:56 mircea_popescu: how ?

02:47:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: needed his nick plus perhaps 3 words out of his idiot mouth

02:47:12 asciilifeform: (mr spam!)

02:47:27 mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/address/1FundZy7m7b8begbh9haCguKJcAdFopRJ9 << gotta say, nice of all teh peeps sending donations

02:47:29 assbot: Bitcoin Address 1FundZy7m7b8begbh9haCguKJcAdFopRJ9 ... ( http://bit.ly/1B8lHwQ )

02:49:45 mod6: i think that's mostly my testing + taxation

02:50:26 mircea_popescu: you sent teh .1337 ?

02:50:53 mircea_popescu: neways, five cents here, a cent there etc

02:50:54 mod6: yeah, and .01337498 and a bunch of other small amounts

02:51:06 mod6: yeah. its cool tho

02:51:16 mircea_popescu: aha

02:52:33 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah he was ringing my markov model too

02:53:17 mircea_popescu: but this is a totally new topic ?

02:53:31 mircea_popescu: markov how, all the dude was talking about before were genius biznis ideas and stuff.

02:53:54 asciilifeform: his new nick alone was a loud, profane fart in that direction

02:54:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058937 << rousseauism, when confronted with "well if the state isn't god's successor, why would anyone listen to it" he came up with a weirdo translation of god in burgeois terms.

02:54:20 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 02:38:35; trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase

02:54:40 mircea_popescu: god isn't the first warrior anymore, which all other warriors owe fealty too, god is now the first contract which all contracts are derived fro

02:54:51 trinque: mircea_popescu: sounded like a nothing term to me, meaning "accept that this is so"

02:54:53 trinque: yeah

02:54:59 mircea_popescu: nonsense through and through, but whadda ya want, encyclopedists, ie transhumanists v1.0

02:56:22 mircea_popescu: (the Dictionnaire raisonne des sciences, des arts, et des metiers. was essentially a b-a of the time fork of human knowledge of the time. it was wildly successful in spite of being mostly wrong)

02:58:48 trinque: I don't know much about rousseau, except that I recall him being mentioned by someone who was arguing bureaucracy was the greatest of all human inventions, and this with utter seriousness

02:59:06 decimation: mircea_popescu: but many of the folks in that wot ended up throwing derps into the woodchipper

02:59:19 mircea_popescu: trinque that's about where you'd expect it.

02:59:33 trinque: person was a fucking moron who worshipped big govt

02:59:35 mircea_popescu: decimation who, d'alembert ? lebreton ?

03:00:10 mircea_popescu: trinque bureaucracy has its uses. the problem is that the context it'd be useful in and the context in which it thrives are so wildly divorced.

03:00:28 mircea_popescu: sorta like how wolves would make excellent guard dogs, if only they stopped going and killing all the sheep and stayed at the fucking door instead.

03:00:51 asciilifeform: one might even say: bureaucracy was the first computer

03:00:52 decimation: voltaire, et al weren't exactly fans of the ancien regime

03:00:56 asciilifeform: computer of meat

03:01:33 trinque: I can see the point; a space is declared within which rules and processes accumulate

03:01:35 asciilifeform: peter 1 introduced bureaucracy in ru, and is worshipped for it

03:01:38 mircea_popescu: voltaire was a great fan, what are you talking about ?

03:01:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ayup/

03:02:04 trinque: but doing the accumulation as a good in itself seems to be where the insanity lies?

03:02:22 trinque: I recall the self-licking ice cream cone metaphor

03:02:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the computer of meat approach may well explain why it sucks so bad since 1900s. not a bad heuristic.

03:02:47 asciilifeform: it is how i always explain it to n00bs

03:03:03 asciilifeform: can make a computer out of near-anything

03:03:10 asciilifeform: but the only suitable material, in the old days, was meat

03:03:14 mircea_popescu: the other thing is : bureaucracy makes an excellent woman and an applaing man.

03:03:32 mircea_popescu: for as long as bureaucracy = the slaves of peter, or julius, or w/e, that may well work.

03:03:33 []bot: Bet placed: 20 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 103.1868 BTC. Current weight: 79,985.

03:03:39 trinque: so happens the fan of bureaucracy was female

03:04:04 mircea_popescu: once people try to be run by a bureaucracy however... god help'em.

03:05:46 mircea_popescu: even patently retarded stuff like "Smart contracts" seem preferable by that experience.

03:06:56 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scUdQuy6SZc

03:06:58 assbot: Hermes Bureaucrat song - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzqJYM )

03:07:09 asciilifeform: ^

03:07:12 mircea_popescu: til "transhumanism" has a logo

03:07:17 mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.

03:07:25 mircea_popescu: i've never seen cancer this organised before.

03:07:42 asciilifeform: take it up with thiel

03:07:52 asciilifeform: who, as i understand, is paying

03:08:42 mircea_popescu: oh, is that it ?

03:08:46 asciilifeform: aha

03:08:48 asciilifeform: him.

03:08:55 mircea_popescu: "Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities."

03:09:14 asciilifeform: note that not even remotely true as printed on the crate

03:09:38 mircea_popescu: why so shy you know ? what's wrong with "Transhumanism is Thiel's stab at b-a. He thinks Omidyar's stab at qntra failed for reasons unrelated."

03:09:58 asciilifeform: -zero- actual work on lickliderian or engelbartian 'intelligence amplification' concept from these bozos

03:10:05 asciilifeform: much less anything actually hard like ai

03:10:16 mircea_popescu: "This article is about the futurist ideology and movement. For the critique of humanism, see posthumanism. For the pattern of seasonal migration, see transhumance. For persons experiencing incongruence between their actual gender and the gender assigned to them at birth, see trans man, trans woman, and transgender." << best part imo.

03:10:34 asciilifeform: l0l!

03:10:57 asciilifeform: no mention of trans fats?

03:11:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works. "nobody's using bitcoin, nobody could have foreseen their using a plane as a rocket and nobody's doing anything better nor anything better could exist than ... you know, raising awareness"

03:11:12 asciilifeform: or transesterification ?

03:11:14 mircea_popescu: it's a thing, all this.

03:11:31 mircea_popescu: "The most common thesis put forward is that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label posthuman."

03:11:53 mircea_popescu: check it out lmao, an international cultural and intellectual "movement" that aspires to one day... label soemthing!

03:11:54 asciilifeform: 'able' because cthulhu will wish it ?

03:12:12 mircea_popescu: no but it's splendid. so they aspire to... names!

03:12:47 mircea_popescu: maybe humanity could go to transyale and get a transphd ?

03:13:01 trinque: someday we will be caught up in the heavens with white robes, and our bodies will be purified

03:13:21 trinque: there's gotta be a damn circuit for this shit in the head

03:13:23 asciilifeform: trinque: they have a literal version of this!

03:13:25 asciilifeform: 'uploading'

03:13:27 mircea_popescu: "This hypothesis would lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990 and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement."

03:13:31 trinque: asciilifeform: lol oh I know

03:13:42 trinque: it is techno-christianity

03:13:55 mircea_popescu: basically this is scientology bahai ? do they speak esperanto ?

03:13:58 asciilifeform: trinque: it was slightly more interesting before was obvious sc4mz0r1ng

03:14:20 mircea_popescu: "Influenced by seminal works of science fiction, the transhumanist vision of a transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters and detractors from a wide range of perspectives." aaahahahaha

03:14:26 mircea_popescu: dude omfg... this is a parody is it ?

03:14:27 asciilifeform: when tech was actually kinda moving, '70s-80s, and a number of things looked quasi-plausible with one eye closed

03:14:32 mircea_popescu: wikipedia is turning into tvtropes.

03:14:33 trinque: asciilifeform: yudkowski even invented the beast or satan or w/e, that AI that resolves to abuse your eternal soul forever if you oppose it

03:14:42 asciilifeform: trinque: aha

03:14:42 trinque: hm might not have been him, but I read he fears it

03:14:48 asciilifeform: no it was him

03:14:54 mircea_popescu: how do you abuse the eternal soul ?

03:14:59 mircea_popescu: make it read bad fanfic about "bullies" ?

03:15:17 trinque: pls don't trigger me

03:15:20 asciilifeform: he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation

03:15:24 trinque: triggered for all time!

03:15:25 mircea_popescu: who the fuck is max moore is what i wanna know

03:15:53 mircea_popescu: "Max More (born Max T. O'Connor, January 1964) is a philosopher and futurist who writes, speaks, and consults on advanced decision-making about emerging technologies."

03:15:57 mircea_popescu: ...

03:16:01 asciilifeform: !s jaron lanier

03:16:02 assbot: 6 results for 'jaron lanier' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jaron+lanier

03:16:05 asciilifeform: !s digirati

03:16:06 assbot: 0 results for 'digirati' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=digirati

03:16:09 asciilifeform: ^ them.

03:16:13 decimation: we discussed lanier earlier

03:16:15 asciilifeform: that entire social set.

03:16:28 mircea_popescu: so like... being a playboy model without the tits ?

03:16:46 asciilifeform: 'public intellectuals'

03:17:04 mircea_popescu: not quite.

03:17:09 asciilifeform: as seen elsewhere on the planet. cocksucking sycophants of the most degenerate imaginable kind

03:17:13 mircea_popescu: public intellectuals are actually educated people.

03:17:20 mircea_popescu: how about "marketeers without a product" ?

03:17:27 asciilifeform: using the phrase in the derisive chinese sense

03:17:51 decimation: their produt is 'pay attention to meee'

03:17:52 asciilifeform: (as described in http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-rage-of-cultural-elites.html )

03:17:53 assbot: ClubOrlov: The Rage of the Cultural Elites ... ( http://bit.ly/1CrL2Jb )

03:18:03 mircea_popescu: Founder of the Extropy Institute, Max More has written many articles espousing the philosophy of transhumanism and the transhumanist philosophy of extropy,[6] most importantly his Principles of Extropy (currently version 3.11)

03:18:07 mircea_popescu: ok, this im reading then

03:18:29 mircea_popescu: "Extropy is a proposed opposing concept to entropy. As entropy decreases , signifying more order, so extropy would increase in the manner of negentropy."

03:18:38 mircea_popescu: holy shit. enthalpy never happened ?

03:18:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the actual founding document of mr y's garbage is actually this: http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html

03:18:42 assbot: Vernor Vinge on the Singularity ... ( http://bit.ly/198l4wD )

03:18:49 mircea_popescu: god im sick of fucktarded usians giving their name to random items.

03:18:57 mircea_popescu: "and this tree i call jorje".

03:18:59 *: asciilifeform has an ancient copy of this, printed on matrix printer, yellowed with ages

03:19:20 mircea_popescu: "Extropy also attempts to describe the nature of the order, so a crystal , although highly ordered would have low extropy, but an organism or machine would have high extropy because of the informational structure contained within it. "

03:19:25 mircea_popescu: where's my red F

03:19:25 asciilifeform: vinge was (is?) a maths prof who went off the reservation and turned into a 3rd rate sf writer

03:19:46 mircea_popescu: http://www.extropy.org/principles.htm

03:19:47 assbot: Object not found! ... ( http://bit.ly/198linx )

03:19:54 mircea_popescu: check out the complexity. fucking fucktards already.

03:20:15 asciilifeform: !s vinge

03:20:16 assbot: 3 results for 'vinge' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=vinge

03:20:45 asciilifeform: possibly '3rd rate' is uncharitable. but he is quite unreadable today

03:20:48 *: asciilifeform tried

03:20:55 decimation: of course all of them would dismiss the YHWH worshipping Jews and Christians as credulous simpletons

03:21:12 decimation: but fear the great AI demon!

03:21:28 mircea_popescu: Date: Thu, March 19, 2015 11:21 pm

03:21:28 mircea_popescu: To: webmaster@extropy.org

03:21:28 mircea_popescu: Hello, <A href=http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059095we

03:21:28 mircea_popescu: think you are stupid</a>.

03:21:28 mircea_popescu: Carry on.

03:21:43 asciilifeform: decimation: never mind that not one could describe the first thing about building a computer which does not barf regularly

03:21:44 trinque: :D

03:22:19 decimation: asciilifeform: hey, they have a research program

03:22:33 mircea_popescu: In the mid-1970s F.M. Esfandiary legally[5] changed his name to FM-2030 for two main reasons. Firstly, to reflect the hope and belief that he would live to celebrate his 100th birthday in 2030

03:22:41 mircea_popescu: died in 2000.

03:23:25 mircea_popescu: must suck to be these people.

03:23:41 asciilifeform: they have... phaith!

03:23:56 mircea_popescu: The concept of the technological singularity, or the ultra-rapid advent of superhuman intelligence, was first proposed by the British cryptologist I. J. Good in 1965: "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever."

03:24:00 asciilifeform: betcha he croaked convinced to the hilt he'd be ancestor-simmed.

03:24:00 mircea_popescu: check it out...

03:24:28 mircea_popescu: i love these scientists that don't even bother putting magic numbers in the code anymore.

03:24:37 mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform have we far surpassed yet or not ?

03:24:59 asciilifeform: much.

03:25:19 mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/H%2B_Cover_1.jpg << "Cover of the first issue of h+ Magazine, a web-based quarterly publication that focuses on transhumanism."

03:25:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/198mLKk )

03:25:50 mircea_popescu: apaprently the future is with bad lipstick and weirdo muslim headwear.

03:25:51 asciilifeform: the vinge essay is pertinent to the 'phoom' (actual name, iirc, for the apocalypse mechanism mr y believes in)

03:26:26 mircea_popescu: ;;google Natasha Vita-More nude

03:26:27 gribble: Natasha Vita-More on Whole Body Prosthetic - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LucitzhNQ8; Bone Density on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/36305724; Natasha Vita-More on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/natashavitamore

03:26:32 mircea_popescu: mmmkay.

03:26:43 asciilifeform: 'phoom' is, in his cosmology, the conflagration resulting from a 'non-friendly' (read: not designed under mr y's tutelage) thinking machine which sets to work improving and crafting copies of self

03:26:53 asciilifeform: out of the remaining universe (how? ask him, not me)

03:27:11 asciilifeform: this is also called 'paperclipping'

03:27:14 mircea_popescu: wikipedia goes through an entire bio article without resolving her relationship to the max more dude.

03:27:29 bitstein: asciilifeform:he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation << Roko's Basilisk at least frightened people enough for him to delete everything about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LessWrong#Roko.27s_basilisk

03:27:31 assbot: LessWrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/198npHM )

03:27:31 asciilifeform: from an illustration where a malevolent apparatus converts all of the matter in the universe into paperclips.

03:27:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why exactly do we suspect very intelligent machines would reproduce ?

03:27:57 mircea_popescu: very intelligent humans don't seem to.

03:28:44 asciilifeform: in his doctrine, it wasn't specified as something they would necessarily do to reproduce in the animal sense, but as a side-effect of operation

03:28:57 mircea_popescu: right. just like people.

03:29:01 asciilifeform: sorta like fire doesn't distinguish between 'designated' fuel and your house

03:29:09 mircea_popescu: but fire is not intelligent.

03:29:23 asciilifeform: basically he proposed that intelligence per se could behave like fire.

03:29:35 mircea_popescu: so his idea of superintelligence is superstupidity ?

03:29:38 asciilifeform: aha.

03:29:44 mircea_popescu: way to let one's own wounded narcisism get hold of the whole cart.

03:30:02 mircea_popescu: seriously eliezer baby : first off we know you're stupid, and second off it really doesn't make much difference. okay ?

03:30:04 mircea_popescu: let it rest.

03:30:11 asciilifeform: specifically that any 'superintelligence' not crafted under his tutelage would inevitably turn into a world-burner of superstupid

03:30:42 decimation: mircea_popescu: the problem is that he's been 'endowed', which means his new career is to pump this stuff out

03:30:44 mircea_popescu: sorta like unbaptised kids ?

03:30:47 mircea_popescu: !up poli_

03:30:52 poli_: Hey

03:30:57 mircea_popescu: decimation hardly much of a problem neh ?

03:31:03 mircea_popescu: and who might you be poli_ ?

03:31:10 poli_: Is Milk here? I have a question regarding Bitbets.

03:31:11 decimation: well, insofar as it acts as a bezzlar sink, no

03:31:17 poli_: An enterprising bitcoin lover.

03:31:30 mircea_popescu: shoot.

03:31:41 poli_: Referred to this overflowing channel via bitbet as well.

03:31:50 mircea_popescu: decimation some other guy got a job as area supervisor of kfc, you know ? nothing wrong with it.

03:32:00 mircea_popescu: poli_ so what's your question ?

03:32:21 poli_: I was curious as to what kind of political questions are allowed.

03:32:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm half convinced that yudkowsky's job is to tie up the brain cpu cycles of folks who could amount to something

03:32:30 asciilifeform: into harmless masturbatorium

03:32:43 poli_: My own specialty is in politicaly analysis and I've been waiting for the chance to put my knowledge to good use.

03:32:48 trinque: asciilifeform: "the beautiful ones"

03:32:49 mircea_popescu: poli_ so go for it.

03:32:55 asciilifeform: his forum housed the largest collection of people who showed symptoms of having a brain which i ever encountered prior to #b-a

03:33:05 asciilifeform: at least, encountered in one place

03:33:06 poli_: As in ask the question here?

03:33:27 mircea_popescu: yes.

03:33:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform interesting.

03:33:45 mircea_popescu: anyone willing to admit an ex lesswrong persona ?

03:33:46 poli_: Why not, sure.

03:33:49 danielpbarron: !s "ask to ask"

03:33:50 assbot: 6 results for '"ask to ask"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22ask+to+ask%22

03:33:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: admit << me.

03:33:59 poli_: I know lesswrong all to well.

03:34:12 mircea_popescu: o.O

03:34:12 asciilifeform: http://lesswrong.com/user/asciilifeform/overview

03:34:13 assbot: Overview for asciilifeform - Less Wrong ... ( http://bit.ly/198p3t3 )

03:34:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got banned for spamming ?

03:34:32 asciilifeform: not quite

03:34:49 asciilifeform: just told that 'the likes of you ain't welcom'

03:35:08 mircea_popescu: "Roko's basilisk is a thought experiment that assumes that an otherwise benevolent future artificial intelligence (AI) would torture the simulated selves of the people who did not help bring about the AI's existence. [...] The concept was proposed in 2010 by contributor Roko in a discussion on LessWrong. Yudkowsky deleted the posts regarding it and banned further discussion of Roko's basilisk on LessWrong after it had

03:35:08 mircea_popescu: apparently caused several contributors who took it seriously considerable anguish."

03:35:10 poli_: But anyways, mine question. Would I be allowed to bet on the following question: President Poroshenko will cease to be president of the Ukraine within 4 months.

03:35:11 asciilifeform: but in all fairness i haven't pushed the knob on that account in years

03:35:15 mircea_popescu: i don't get it. why would anyone care about some simulation ?!

03:35:18 asciilifeform: no idea if still worx

03:35:21 mircea_popescu: poli_ yes.

03:35:27 poli_: Well the idea is that Roko's basilisk

03:35:30 mircea_popescu: afaik there's a bunch of these.

03:35:33 poli_: will motivate people into bringing it around

03:35:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why would anyone care about some simulation << in mr y's world, the simulated organism -is- you

03:35:40 poli_: thereby bringing the simulation into existence

03:35:56 poli_: So burn all the records so people dont think of it

03:36:08 mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/1007/president-obama-impeached-before-2015/ etc

03:36:09 assbot: BitBet - President Obama Impeached before 2015 :: 0.01 B (6%) on Yes, 0.15 B (94%) on No | closed 4 months 2 weeks ago ... ( http://bit.ly/198plzZ )

03:36:18 poli_: Sweet, and thanks for the answer on the question.

03:36:26 mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/761/venezuelan-president-to-step-down/ etc

03:36:27 assbot: BitBet - Venezuelan President to step down :: 0.34 B (17%) on Yes, 1.61 B (83%) on No | closed 11 months 1 week ago ... ( http://bit.ly/198pmUy )

03:36:48 mircea_popescu: poli_ hit the search button, select politics and all bets, and see what the cat drags.

03:36:55 poli_: and I don't mean 'impeached', I mean 'cease beingr president', but whatever means fate happens to employ.

03:36:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you mean "is"

03:37:07 bitstein: asciilifeform: great link you had posted back in 2009: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/rec.org.mensa/YnGkZSpALew/vsr0iDobXDwJ

03:37:09 assbot: Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/198ptPW )

03:37:17 asciilifeform: 'is' (in their view) in the same way as the 'you' who goes to the toilet and then comes back 'is' you.

03:37:23 poli_: I figured you wouldn't be allowed to bet on overtly non-legal happenings. Thanks for the help Mircea

03:37:29 asciilifeform: bitstein: penny is inimitable and timeless

03:38:08 mircea_popescu: poli_ so do they keep attacking wikipedia to take it off ?

03:38:19 asciilifeform: bitstein: she was one of the more interesting folks i ever saw on the net. entirely vanished, long ago.

03:38:35 mircea_popescu: i don't get the argument tho, why is superai of the future influenced by ruminations of humans today

03:38:38 poli_: No idea. I stopped following Lesswrong a while back.

03:38:53 poli_: They got super spergy and fairly degen.

03:39:00 mircea_popescu: ;;ud dege

03:39:01 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dege | Bre 2 : Alow him fam hes a top dege, chek his high bats. Bre 1 : LOL Example 2. Bre 1 : That dege gets ber rude fam, i dashd his book out da window. Bre 2 : LOL  ...

03:39:02 mircea_popescu: ;;ud degen

03:39:02 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=degen | A degen is one step above the dero or derelict in the scale of madness. Scozz Walker ... Gamblers consider other gamblers degens, but not themselves usually.

03:39:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the idea is that the mega-ai appears and has, somehow (forget physics for a moment) a total record of all things

03:39:04 bitstein: asciilifeform: is there an archive somewhere of her writing?

03:39:08 poli_: Plus, I didn't think the Roko's Basilisk scenario was all that likely.

03:39:16 poli_: personal opinion there

03:39:18 asciilifeform: bitstein: google groups has most of it, but no longer searchable.

03:39:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then it's done, no ?

03:39:30 asciilifeform: bitstein: my hard disk has the 2nd largest, i suspect.

03:39:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha done

03:40:11 asciilifeform: but thinking about it was giving some of mr y's gurlz nightmares

03:40:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happens if i make two simulations of the same one slavegirl and order them both to fight to the death ?

03:40:17 asciilifeform: and so he declared jihad

03:40:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't tried this

03:40:35 mircea_popescu: (while the original's watching, of course)

03:40:44 asciilifeform: so cannot rightfully apprehend what happens

03:40:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78100 @ 0.00029644 = 23.152 BTC [-]

03:40:57 asciilifeform: who is stronger, the elephant or the whale.

03:41:00 mircea_popescu: i suppose i got to ask lesswrong, they seem to know all sortsa shit about how shit that doesn't exist works.

03:41:21 asciilifeform: i did say to mr y 'inventing circuit breaker before discovering electric current'

03:41:26 asciilifeform: there was no interesting reply.

03:41:32 poli_: indeed Mircea.

03:41:36 poli_: indeed.

03:41:53 asciilifeform: thing is, he wasn't always a charlatan

03:42:01 asciilifeform: was once an enthusiastic self-taught kid

03:42:04 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/uk-regulates-self-out-of-bitcoin/

03:42:07 asciilifeform: wrote to him in the '90s while also a kid

03:42:12 decimation: I take all of the above writing as evidence that the authors in question have never tried to create a real simulation on an actual computer

03:42:15 asciilifeform: my first pgp-gram actually.

03:42:15 mircea_popescu: all sorts of fun could be had here. what if i get a simulation of me to impregnate the actual girl, and then i impregnate the simulation of her.

03:42:28 asciilifeform: he wrote back, seemed like a c00l d00d

03:42:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform self-teaching IS quite like fire.

03:42:50 mircea_popescu: i've known many of these, they look like radiation. sooner or later start moving toward wall.

03:42:50 asciilifeform: at the time he actually was trying to scarf up all there was written re: ai, hoping to build something new

03:43:14 asciilifeform: the 'flip' happened, iirc, some time in the early 2000s when his brother died of mysterious death

03:43:20 asciilifeform: mr y had a breakdown of sort

03:43:29 mircea_popescu: was he bullied ?

03:43:33 asciilifeform: fuck if i know

03:43:42 mircea_popescu: would explain a lot of bad fiction i read in sumary.

03:43:44 asciilifeform: he was drummed out of school as a youth

03:43:50 asciilifeform: for what, i do not know

03:43:56 mircea_popescu: can't figure out how to thank that physics dude that read what seems like > 500 pages of shit.

03:44:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i meant the bro.

03:44:25 asciilifeform: http://richardkulisz.blogspot.com/search/label/yudkowsky << another mr y h8t3r

03:44:27 assbot: Richard Kulisz: yudkowsky ... ( http://bit.ly/198rEmI )

03:44:39 asciilifeform: ^ also old net crackpot

03:44:43 bitstein: asciilifeform: ah, okay. i'll peruse that.

03:44:55 *: asciilifeform does not endorse mr k wholesale

03:45:06 asciilifeform: but stimulating reading

03:45:28 mircea_popescu: decimation i have the same impression.

03:45:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00030268 = 1.6042 BTC [+]

03:45:53 mircea_popescu: fucking blogspot.

03:46:24 mircea_popescu: "What is rationality? It's the ability to make life plans which reach your goals."

03:46:28 mircea_popescu: uh. i don't think so.

03:46:50 mircea_popescu: rationality is a purely linguistic property, it has exactly nothing to do with action.

03:47:46 mircea_popescu: rationality is, basically, the ability to distinguish homomorphisms from homologies.

03:47:55 mircea_popescu: (same structure vs same components)

03:47:59 asciilifeform: i meant the bro << ah i've no idea. found dead in a dark alley, iirc, but nothing publicly out afaik beyond that

03:48:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00029644 = 1.4081 BTC [-]

03:48:55 asciilifeform: homomorphisms from homologies << doug hofstadter spent a good chunk of his life bashing head against this

03:49:48 mircea_popescu: aha

03:50:19 mircea_popescu: farg is probably one of the better approaches to the ai problem, at any rate.

03:50:40 poli_: Thanks again for the help Mircea, talk to yall later

03:50:59 mircea_popescu: cheers]

03:51:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this discussion inspires me to the following ai standard : a computer that can distinguish code from data is rational.

03:58:16 brendafdez: ben_vulpes pls check message :P

03:58:42 mircea_popescu: "It annoys me that idiots continue to use "oh wow, that's so amazing" as the measure of creative genius. Or even worse, that they rely on society's direction to determine who is a creative genius and who isn't. First of all, creative geniuses are RESPECTED and LOOKED UP TO by society. And any position that is looked up to will be coveted by Narcissists who are driven by Glory, such as Richard Feynman who all his life w

03:58:42 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

03:58:42 mircea_popescu: as driven to be a jerkass asshole and a thief."

03:58:50 mircea_popescu: somebody's got some issues o.O

04:00:35 asciilifeform: mr k is a full-bore crackpot, sorta like yours truly but with heavier radiation damage

04:00:49 asciilifeform: iirc he lives somewhere in canada on a meagre pension

04:01:47 decimation: re: simulation > consider 266 bits. the number of possibilities for those bits is equal to the number of electrons in the universe

04:01:53 mircea_popescu: The Real Deal

04:01:54 mircea_popescu: How do I know I'm the real deal instead of a crazed nutter? Because I tend to elicit the 'damn, that's so obvious now' reaction from people who elicit that same reaction from people like you.

04:02:25 mircea_popescu: decimation i don't think anyone seriously considers that entire "simulation as life" thing outside of fiction.

04:02:27 decimation: how is that not exactly the same as "oh wow, that's so amazing'

04:02:27 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

04:02:40 mircea_popescu: it's just too dependent on vast ignorance.

04:03:16 decimation: mircea_popescu: one cannot speak with certainty about the whereabouts of a single electron, even with infinite bezzlars to dispose on the task

04:03:28 mircea_popescu: right.

04:04:01 asciilifeform: decimation: to be fair, even discussing its 'whereabouts' is wrong straight off the bat.

04:04:05 mircea_popescu: it gets worse, there's entire swaths of particles that are mirrored, you'll never know if you've got various pairs right or backwards.

04:04:07 asciilifeform: like dividing by 0.

04:04:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31335 @ 0.0002959 = 9.272 BTC [-] {2}

04:04:08 decimation: asciilifeform: aye

04:04:20 mircea_popescu: right, something like that.

04:04:51 mircea_popescu: "Labels: creativity, Psychology, yudkowsky". lol. why ?!

04:05:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14715 @ 0.00029203 = 4.2972 BTC [-]

04:05:26 mircea_popescu: "It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky."

04:05:30 asciilifeform: because he ran into him and barfed for a year straight

04:05:32 mircea_popescu: such an internet this internet is.

04:06:44 mircea_popescu: how is some geeky kid pure evil ?!

04:07:25 asciilifeform: in mr k's view, the hypothetical ai is alive and building it 'friendly' (to use mr y's term) is an act of diabolical cruelty

04:07:43 asciilifeform: like growing a kid in a glass jar

04:07:47 asciilifeform: or in usa

04:08:05 mircea_popescu: http://hplusmagazine.com/ <><< ahahahaha o may gawd.

04:08:34 mircea_popescu: "Interview: JeRm La Haine ? On Transhuman Unit and his new project IAIO" << http://i0.wp.com/hplusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Screen-Shot-2015-03-12-at-10.58.28-AM.png?fit=300%2C300

04:08:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/198w6Sz )

04:08:55 mircea_popescu: "Crowdfunding: Support Titanovo?s Novel Telomere Testing Technology" complete with their own scams an' errything.

04:09:13 asciilifeform: the fella in that picture is such a jaronlanier

04:09:28 asciilifeform: srsly, why must these folks all look alike ?!

04:10:05 *: asciilifeform 's first paying job, while student, pertained to telomerase

04:10:37 asciilifeform: http://www.jimmunol.org/content/166/11/6647.full << mentioned in the 'monkeys' section

04:10:40 assbot: Induction of Telomerase Activity During Development of Human Mast Cells from Peripheral Blood CD34+ Cells: Comparisons with Tumor Mast-Cell Lines ... ( http://bit.ly/198wH6A )

04:11:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75350 @ 0.00028944 = 21.8093 BTC [-] {3}

04:11:34 mircea_popescu: "We thank Stanislav Datskovskiy for his assistance with the measurement of telomerase activity in some of these experiments and Martha Kirby for her expert assistance in the analysis of apoptosis." check you out.

04:11:46 asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing how much use came of this.

04:12:53 mircea_popescu: "Jerm La Haine: I?ve been doing music production and graphic design for just under twenty years now."

04:12:59 decimation: asciilifeform: re: look alike < note that they are all 'alterntive' in the same way. none of them choose to dress like 15th century nobility, for example

04:13:07 mircea_popescu: " Currently I?ve been getting lots of positive attention for my new record label Collective Conscious Records."

04:13:16 mircea_popescu: it's scary what kids today use to describe themselves.

04:13:28 mircea_popescu: decimation shut up, it's LA!!! Haine.

04:13:37 asciilifeform: decimation: aha. nor will they put on a cravat

04:14:06 asciilifeform: you won't catch them dressing up as mircea_popescu

04:14:09 mircea_popescu: (la haine = to clothes, in ro.)

04:14:49 mircea_popescu: "I started the record label because I wasn?t happy with any of the offers i got from other record labels. It?s a way I can release my own stuff on my own terms. After the first couple releases people started getting interested in the label. I?ve even started working out deals with some artists. I recently released a few tracks with Lonnie Dangerous and Collective Conscious Records is getting ready to release an a

04:14:49 mircea_popescu: lbum by Young Boy Hybrid. Currently Collective Conscious Records has eighteen releases available and we have several more on the way this year."

04:14:57 asciilifeform: although to mr mold's credit - the man once proposed that moldbuggerites dress in tweed 'to rebel'

04:15:21 mircea_popescu: the very strange thing here is that he somehow thinks the "releases" are the problem record labels solve.

04:16:05 mircea_popescu: not the market. you're a record label for having 100 singer-songrwiters, that'll make whatever shit, not for having 100mn customers who'll buy whatever you put out.

04:16:08 mircea_popescu: such strange.

04:18:14 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pilo_ I read the whole Yudo Harierzer thing

04:18:15 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:18:21 decimation: the music label's real 'problem solving' would be knowing how to push the right bellybuttons to force a song to be played in a large chunk of the existing radio stations/youtubes/ipods

04:19:08 mircea_popescu: aye.

04:19:20 mircea_popescu: more of a 90s thing, record label as master of payola.

04:19:36 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky." << Dude is harmless can't even kill the little girl without a troll

04:20:03 decimation: yes, the business model is failing. it still exists, but it is a victim of its own success in the sense that it has trained the masses to ignore radio

04:20:08 mircea_popescu: "?Transhuman Strategies? conference March 21 in Silicon Valley?- Tickets Limited! Posted: February 26, 2015

04:20:08 mircea_popescu: What are the Transhuman Goals in the near future? 0 comments"

04:20:12 mircea_popescu: this can't be a thiel thing can it ?

04:20:27 BingoBoingo: Almost has to be

04:20:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thiel plus wannebee panhandlers on his door

04:20:34 mircea_popescu: ah.

04:20:39 mircea_popescu: anyone going ? :D

04:20:51 decimation: does anyone here live in the bay area?

04:20:51 BingoBoingo: No I

04:21:01 asciilifeform: btw mr y was running sc4mf3r3nc3z before bitcoin

04:21:06 asciilifeform: for $maxint

04:21:15 mircea_popescu: "Venue: Prospect SIlicon Valley Categories: Brighter Brains, Transhumanism Tags: communications, strategic planning, strategy, SWOT"

04:21:30 mircea_popescu: SWOT!

04:21:58 mircea_popescu: maybe they slip up and built the transhuman bureaucracy, complete with transflipcharts.

04:22:03 asciilifeform: special weapons onanism team ?

04:22:17 asciilifeform: (swot)

04:22:37 mircea_popescu: "What are the Transhuman Goals in the near future? How can these Transhuman ideas permeate the mainstream? Are there ways Transhumanism can assert itself in the political sphere? How can Transhumanist ideas and innovations create a better world now, for billions of people on Earth?"

04:22:44 mircea_popescu: ahaha this is such a delicious target.

04:23:17 mircea_popescu: say timmy... anything you could do with these two burnt matcsticks TO CREATE A BETTER ALPHA CENTAURY FOR MILLIONS OF STARS IN THE GALAXI ?!?!?

04:24:23 mircea_popescu: "The conference begins with a ?Meet & Greet? session from 12:15 ? 1:00 pm, followed by speakers from 1:00 ? 5:00. After the conference, participants will be encouraged to continue the discussion at a nearby bar (location announced at the event). The cost to attend the mini-conferences is only $20; only $15 for students, seniors, and people who travel more than 50 miles to get there. Tickets on sale at EventBrit

04:24:24 mircea_popescu: e HERE." << asciilifeform i doubt about that maxint.

04:24:35 asciilifeform: that's an imitator

04:24:43 asciilifeform: speaking of the 'genuine article'

04:24:48 decimation: only $20? what kind of scammer only asks for one yuppie foodstamp?

04:25:07 asciilifeform: ;;google singularity university

04:25:07 gribble: Singularity University | Solving Humanity's Grand Challenges: http://singularityu.org/; So, What is SU? | Singularity University: http://singularityu.org/overview/; Graduate Studies Program | Singularity University: http://singularityu.org/graduate-studies-program/

04:25:37 decimation: asciilifeform: did you read about the new fucktarded appleism - the USB type C port?

04:25:39 mircea_popescu: that's accredited ?

04:25:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't actually university-shaped

04:26:00 asciilifeform: more like reptilia's 'conference' thing

04:26:01 mircea_popescu: lolk

04:26:22 asciilifeform: decimation: aha, their dock connector

04:26:26 mircea_popescu: The Speaker List includes: Zoltan Istvan ? 2016 US Presidential candidate of Transhumanist Party

04:26:26 decimation: yeah

04:26:36 mircea_popescu: fuck, i had no idea there's a transhumanist party.

04:26:38 decimation: apparently does 10 gpbs AND allows 100 watts of charge!

04:26:39 mircea_popescu: decimation you knew ?!

04:26:41 mircea_popescu: a nm.

04:26:42 asciilifeform: (apple released a machine which is entirely unusable without the dock gizmo)

04:27:01 decimation: later google et.al. jumped on the bandwagon

04:27:20 decimation: because it makes so much sense to have the same plug for your power port and your video signal

04:27:28 asciilifeform: and a retreat from the magnetic plug

04:27:48 asciilifeform: which (stolen from korean coffee pots) was the one good idea apple forced through the thick skulls of other vendors

04:27:54 mircea_popescu: i think the plan is to merge coaxial and power lines.

04:28:02 mircea_popescu: i gues tptb don't see fiber in the future of america.

04:28:17 decimation: magplug was a good idea for power

04:28:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: power-over-lan is sop among large indoor installations of whatever

04:28:25 asciilifeform: i have it even here

04:28:39 decimation: What I fear is new malwarez installed on your monitor!

04:29:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on the other hand, data over mains cable is sop in eu

04:29:33 decimation: or your power supply. or whatever, because who the fuck knows what is going on in your uninspectible 10gbs bus

04:29:43 asciilifeform: works great to the nearest transformer booth (where you need an active amp)

04:29:43 decimation: data over mains cable is a terrible idea

04:29:59 asciilifeform: but even cheaper than 'brown fiber' (see earlier sewer article)

04:30:00 decimation: spams HF spectrum with nasty shit

04:30:03 asciilifeform: and hence doomed to happen

04:30:19 mircea_popescu: ^

04:30:21 decimation: why is it so hard to run a fiber to a neighborhood data center

04:30:32 asciilifeform: decimation: digging rights

04:30:37 mircea_popescu: Speakers list : Maria Konovalenko & Mikhail Batin ? Immortality Activists << http://maria-konovalenko.typepad.com/.a/6a01348002e89e970c01348542262a970c-pi

04:30:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDWiSw )

04:32:11 mircea_popescu: "Hank Pellissier is the director of Brighter Brains Institute, and the producer of eight transhumanist conferences in 2013-2015."

04:32:29 mircea_popescu: i guess to the random eye this is === bitcoin

04:32:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93250 @ 0.00030323 = 28.2762 BTC [+] {2}

04:32:44 asciilifeform: thiel (and possibly friends) seed it. the chumpatronium sustains.

04:32:45 decimation: asciilifeform: it's more than just digging rights. surely the majority of surban homeowners would be more than happy to make their own comcast if they could

04:32:58 asciilifeform: decimation: digging rights in throughfares.

04:33:10 asciilifeform: or what, proposing to connect the suburbanites to each other?

04:33:32 asciilifeform: works in ro where there were sentient lifeforms about, circa 1994 or when

04:33:36 asciilifeform: but usa? forget it

04:33:59 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah exactly that. for a few thousand bucks each, it would be trival to make a small neighborhood isp of great quality

04:34:23 decimation: but the probability that a given set of 100 homes in the the us would be occupied by owners so enlightened..

04:34:38 asciilifeform: and of never having to traverse city land

04:34:54 asciilifeform: this is actually a problem in ukraine

04:34:58 asciilifeform: in odessa even

04:35:10 asciilifeform: where there is an eternal war between the electric and cable (internet) utils

04:35:10 mircea_popescu: decimation this is exactly how ro internet worked, and the reason ro internet is today in the top 5 worldwide, with 4 azns : that pressure ten years ago

04:35:16 mircea_popescu: and it cost 10s not 1000s of dollars

04:35:16 asciilifeform: like an actual war, with cut cables weekly

04:35:27 mircea_popescu: but i think alf has it : population of psychopaths.

04:35:29 mircea_popescu: it matters.

04:36:41 decimation: in the us, it is common for nearly all homes built after 1970 to be built upon land which is part of an 'hoa'

04:37:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, some state authority or other decided to cut cables. the city hall nearly caught fire as a result, and the plan was discontinuied.

04:37:03 decimation: when you buy a home on such land, you automatically agree to whatever fucktarded idea was popular in 1982

04:37:22 mircea_popescu: decimation no idea who'd build on land he didn't own, but hey.

04:38:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by that token scarcely anyone on u.s. coasts owns land

04:38:11 asciilifeform: it is virtually wholly encumbered

04:38:22 mircea_popescu: http://maria-konovalenko.typepad.com/blog/2010/06/the-blocking-point.html << check out this transhumanist project. "let's pretend like we're valuable and have skills and people should be queing on our door to give us moneys"

04:38:24 assbot: The Blocking Point - Maria Konovalenko ... ( http://bit.ly/198DnSh )

04:38:25 decimation: asciilifeform: even in middle america it's the same, on any newer home

04:38:26 mircea_popescu: quite entertaining.

04:38:29 asciilifeform: (not even speaking of taxation)

04:38:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i don't own there.

04:38:45 decimation: you would quite literally need to buy a plot of farmland in the middle of nowhere

04:38:55 decimation: or some ghetto shack

04:40:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that vinge dood thinks progress in biology does not depend on computers ?

04:40:33 mircea_popescu: nuts.

04:40:44 asciilifeform: check the date.

04:41:40 mircea_popescu: 93 ? what of it ?

04:42:05 asciilifeform: the massive sequence alignment thing wasn't a going concern quite yet.

04:42:26 mircea_popescu: i thought he knew the future.

04:42:45 asciilifeform: the only american sf author who 'knew the future' was robert sheckley.

04:42:57 asciilifeform: or possibly philip dick.

04:43:13 asciilifeform: (saw as darker, more demented version of their own time, naturally)

04:43:19 mircea_popescu: heh.

04:43:24 nubbins`: got the paranoia right anyway

04:43:24 mircea_popescu: accidentallyright.jpg

04:43:44 *: BingoBoingo offers now that if any motherfucker named Dallas Cook is trying to dope me with malware I would advise stopping that felony.

04:43:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, you know those stories about how rich guy heard the paupers / shoeshine boys discuss stocks and bailed ?

04:43:59 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wai wat

04:44:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes! but can't recall where

04:44:21 asciilifeform: ancient legend

04:44:25 mircea_popescu: "Progress in computer hardware has followed an amazingly steady curve in the last few decades [17]." << by now moore';s law is currency in trading for everyine, from usgavin to vince whoever.

04:44:25 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

04:44:26 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I have no definiteive evidence, but I have obsrved trends

04:44:32 mircea_popescu: i am firmly persuaded that the wall's coming.

04:44:40 mircea_popescu: current computers are best computers, and fu humanity.

04:45:07 asciilifeform: clocked circuits are retarded

04:45:08 asciilifeform: (literally)

04:45:50 asciilifeform: and if you're building computers in the tens or hundreds rather than quajizillions quantities there is no reason not to use germanium, gallium arsenide, doped diamond, etc. chemistries

04:45:56 mircea_popescu: besides the point. here's mp's prediction : the computer that can be had for a one ounce of gold in 2025 will be inferior to the computer that can be had for an ounce of gold today, on computation measures.

04:46:29 mircea_popescu: because industrial infrastructure has been kept in new state by constant improvement.

04:46:33 decimation: mircea_popescu: you are betting against lithography?

04:46:38 mircea_popescu: once improvements go away, infrastructure starts to decay.

04:46:47 BingoBoingo: decimation: Lithograpy has limits

04:46:51 mircea_popescu: decimation litho is already dead, intel's cancelling narrower process etc.

04:46:51 asciilifeform: ^ if industrial collapse carries on, it will be difficult to imagine a computer of any description being constructed in 2025 other than out of 'junkyard wars' pieces

04:47:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unrelated, that. obv it'd be of chinese make in any case.

04:47:33 decimation: I thought they were already on the path for 10 nm

04:47:39 mircea_popescu: look into it.

04:47:46 mircea_popescu: they were onthe path to, decided not to follow it.

04:47:55 mircea_popescu: 10nm is maybe not really happening.

04:48:05 asciilifeform: might expensive toy just to keep microshit alive another 2 yrs

04:48:09 asciilifeform: *mighty

04:48:37 mircea_popescu: and yes alf's right, the end of moore is also the end of ms, apple etc.

04:48:47 mircea_popescu: once people start having to optimize, the doocracies are dead.

04:48:53 mircea_popescu: kinda why poettering's in such a hurry, i guess.

04:48:59 BingoBoingo: Shame Sun's already dead

04:49:02 mircea_popescu: as if old code somehow gets forgotten or something, dunno.

04:49:07 asciilifeform: usg pours $maxint into optical logic, but nothing is publicly known re: what, if anything, ever came of it

04:49:22 asciilifeform: not for desktops of idiot tetris-playing dilberts, no

04:49:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right. only failure can be kept from the public knowledge.

04:49:48 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The price of old RISC beasts already marches upwards

04:50:00 asciilifeform: any crowned head who has half a brain is sponsoring optical hasher.

04:50:51 decimation: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/intel-forges-ahead-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/ < seems like they are still on path for 10 nm

04:50:52 assbot: Intel forges ahead to 10nm, will move away from silicon at 7nm | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDc94b )

04:51:31 decimation: sounds like they are considering ascii's iii-v chemistry for 7nm

04:51:39 asciilifeform: intel surrendered to chumpification of the most abject kind, sells severely underclocked dies which temporarily 'turbo' up

04:53:10 asciilifeform: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/bronx-man-confesses-to-laser-pointer-incident-after-cops-arrest-his-housemate << mega-lol yet again

04:53:12 assbot: Bronx man confesses to laser pointer incident after cops arrest his housemate | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDcIL2 )

04:54:41 mircea_popescu: decimation from what i recall reading on teh topic, the 14nm process was a total debacle and 10nm is a theory only thing.

04:54:54 *: BingoBoingo is overflowing with Wintel hate atm

04:55:09 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> decimation from what i recall reading on teh topic, the 14nm process was a total debacle and 10nm is a theory only thing << This

04:55:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo: the basic mechanics here: wintel racket was powered, like many other similar idiocies, by the american 'fat'

04:55:43 asciilifeform: which is to say, it is not enough to con chumps, they must also have fat to be rendered for

04:56:07 asciilifeform: then they can go off to the shops and buy 'windows 95' because the cardboard waving hand says to (actual thing, saw alive, in '95)

04:56:17 asciilifeform: but the blow their fat disposable income on resulting new computer

04:56:20 mircea_popescu: decimation look at it this way : 14nm was demonstrated in memories cca 2005, intel shipped it in 2015.

04:56:25 asciilifeform: without which the idiot crud won't boot

04:56:28 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And then you find old folks on the family tree to which you owe defference

04:56:34 mircea_popescu: 10nm was demonstrated... cca 2009 ?

04:56:37 mircea_popescu: it's not happening.

04:56:51 asciilifeform: without fat - nothing to power the engine

04:57:04 decimation: well, it certainly seems that we are at the edge of what silicon can yield

04:57:15 mircea_popescu: economically.

04:57:16 asciilifeform: the folks who are supposed to be buying new computer on microshit's say-so are short a benjie or two for rent this month

04:57:31 mircea_popescu: there's that big bitch in there. ~economically~. the cost for 10nm is alreadyu not covered by the density benefits

04:57:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: outside of a handful of 'naggums' - it was -never- justified

04:58:21 asciilifeform: virtually all computer users got vastly more actual 'bang for buck' in 1992 than today

04:58:25 mircea_popescu: hm ?

04:58:44 mircea_popescu: heh. think about bitcoin on pc xt

04:59:00 asciilifeform: not so far-fetched to picture it on pent1

04:59:01 decimation: asciilifeform: yes, but not in terms of raw flops, when massaged properly

04:59:09 asciilifeform: we have essentially that on pogo

04:59:39 decimation: there's little doubt that man's ability to create tiny features on silicon has far outpaced his ability to do something useful with them

05:00:20 asciilifeform: while being one of the really not so many people who found it properly useful, i will still say that ultimately it was a side effect of a mega-scam

05:01:02 decimation: asciilifeform: what's 'it'? the pursuit of small features?

05:01:10 brendafdez: it was a side effect of a mega-scam << ?

05:01:12 mircea_popescu: point being, the trillions needed for 10nm and beyond aren't forthcoming and that's the end of this run.

05:01:27 mircea_popescu: which was a great run, a point that'll be made obvious by the anger of all the hanger-ons once itstops

05:02:33 decimation: whether 10nm is the stopping point or not, I agree that this is the ultimate end. exponentially increasing fab costs cannot abide forever

05:02:45 mircea_popescu: right.

05:03:44 asciilifeform: decimation: what's 'it' << the difference in cpu available to luser today vs. '92

05:04:35 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think there's some truth to that - ultimately the vast majority of computer-purchasing money is 'dumb money'

05:05:10 asciilifeform: not merely this, but driven to be spent entirely by microshit's idiot 'operating system pr0gr3ss'

05:13:26 asciilifeform: incidentally, the 'laser terrorism' thing is, as always, smoke which is never without fire:

05:13:40 asciilifeform: the helicopter is the symbol of statal power against the peon schmuck

05:13:49 asciilifeform: in every modern evil empire

05:14:05 asciilifeform: the folks on the ground 'must know their place', is the message.

05:14:08 BingoBoingo: The Hind started that

05:14:29 ben_vulpes: the helicopter is an easily pricked balloon.

05:14:36 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah there's some truth to that, wrt aircraft in general too

05:15:05 asciilifeform: decimation: was not always so. think of the 'barnstormers' of the '30s, the '50s delusions of 'every man and his little flying coffin', etc

05:15:29 asciilifeform: but soon it was clear even to imbeciles that flying was an aristocrat's (or totalitarian thug enforcer's...) game.

05:15:31 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, note how aircraft went from tinkering in the barn to 'instruments of power'

05:15:53 decimation: and the similarity with computers

05:16:02 asciilifeform: ^

05:18:38 asciilifeform: incidentally, http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/bronx-man-confesses-to-laser-pointer-incident-after-cops-arrest-his-housemate/?comments=1&post=28682927

05:18:40 assbot: Bronx man confesses to laser pointer incident after cops arrest his housemate | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1xlocRF )

05:18:41 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^

05:18:48 *: BingoBoingo very angrey atm

05:18:53 decimation: from this point of view, the tinker's duty is to be the Praetorian guard for the state

05:19:59 *: BingoBoingo also incredibly drunk

05:20:15 ben_vulpes: <jurov> my opinions were formed by several friends eating disinfo that was later traced back to RT, with sink and hooker << hook line and sinker perhaps the phrase?

05:20:27 ben_vulpes: otherwise this is a new one for me

05:20:32 BingoBoingo: sink and hooker is bester

05:20:40 ben_vulpes: hyu

05:20:42 ben_vulpes: k

05:20:44 ben_vulpes: i'll accept

05:21:09 asciilifeform: 'i'ma start my own casino now, with sink'n'hookerz'

05:21:26 ben_vulpes: "yeah i'll take the whole thing sink luser and hooker"

05:21:51 ben_vulpes: meh.

05:23:40 *: BingoBoingo dealing with family member brought to malware in an impersonal way, but I want to take this transgression very personally

05:25:01 *: BingoBoingo smash is default setting here

05:29:01 *: BingoBoingo recognizeds /me very drunk and traveling to India to /smash would be a challenge

05:29:17 *: BingoBoingo still leans towards .smash as a remedy

05:30:06 decimation: ben_vulpes: sigh, got bitcoind built on aws, now I got to buy more storage space :(

05:30:25 brendafdez: aws was the best alternative?

05:30:30 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lemme guess, the old classic 'fake av' sc4m

05:30:44 decimation: brendafdez: it's an alternative

05:30:54 decimation: as I recall, folks here have had good luck with 'vultr' too

05:31:04 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Torrent seed node sc4m

05:31:07 ben_vulpes: well, 'good'.

05:31:29 ben_vulpes: shit goes goes down and comes up more frequently than an expert cocksucker.

05:32:55 decimation: ben_vulpes: what? aws?

05:33:07 ben_vulpes: vultr.

05:33:08 asciilifeform: 'So the thing that interests me the most is that this doesn't seem to have been weaponized by anyone. I'd think, given how much disparity there is between modern military units and insurgent groups and how much of that relies on air superiority, that we'd be hearing regularly about lasers being used to blind combat air pilots...' << from comments

05:33:10 decimation: ah.

05:33:16 ben_vulpes: for all the hate it gets around here, aws is pretty solid

05:33:20 ben_vulpes: untrustworthy, but what is.

05:33:23 decimation: agreed, it does seem solid

05:33:33 decimation: doesn't need to be trusted if nothing secret is on it

05:33:44 ben_vulpes: still

05:33:46 ben_vulpes: i'd love me a dedi

05:34:00 decimation: well, yeah, but I love me $k per month

05:34:22 ben_vulpes: jurov linked a thing, some 50 us/mo iirc for dedis

05:34:36 trinque: !up deedbot-

05:34:40 decimation: seems dubious

05:34:55 trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

05:34:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LyiHVO )

05:35:05 trinque: deedbot you fuck

05:35:08 ben_vulpes: trinque: get that thing on your account and get it upped permanently, would you?

05:35:11 BingoBoingo: So cheap black box with pf stops all undesirable traffic. Still some poor ass brown fucks (likely) managed to land malware on my mum's computer which would make it a mega seed node for shows available freely on OTa networks.

05:35:27 *: BingoBoingo saw letter boils in anger

05:35:33 BingoBoingo: And vodka

05:36:12 trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

05:36:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wNORR5 )

05:36:25 trinque: weird, in pm that works.

05:36:30 *: trinque goes to poke the tenyks

05:36:35 trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah I will

05:36:40 trinque: * ben_vulpes ^

05:37:00 *: BingoBoingo plans on setting up mum and edge router lite, but in the interim... Imma drink so much vodka

05:37:04 trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

05:37:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wNP6vp )

05:37:37 *: asciilifeform may be hearing of a fella drinking on account of a crapware incident for the first time

05:37:59 decimation: ben_vulpes: as I recall the stuff hosted on aws didn't have any problems with mr. ddos

05:38:10 *: BingoBoingo so pissed I might have to wander till I find a coyote just to have a fair fight as I kick its teeth out.

05:38:26 ben_vulpes: decimation: aws drops those packets iirc

05:38:58 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This is only exceptional in the sense that there are potentially nameable enemies who might b attribule

05:39:24 ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo drinks on occasions?

05:39:33 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But since they have already earned the shitlist.

05:39:45 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Occasions just make me drink moar.

05:39:54 decimation: amusingly the http://www.ntp.org/ page has a box begging people to block non-assigned ips from ingressing or egressing

05:39:55 assbot: ntp.org: Home of the Network Time Protocol ... ( http://bit.ly/1LyjtSw )

05:39:55 ben_vulpes: kinda what i'm getting at

05:41:08 BingoBoingo: Hatorade isn't even a charitable description of my current beverage.

05:44:28 trinque: deedbot-: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

05:44:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LyiHVO )

05:44:31 deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF

05:44:33 trinque: you fuck

05:44:36 *: BingoBoingo impressed he can maintain this anger while his democratocally elected mayor struggles to breathe http://www.bnd.com/2015/03/18/3718138/highland-mayor-takes-big-step.html

05:44:38 assbot: Metro-east news from Belleville, IL | Belleville News-Democrat ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDY9Q6 )

05:44:45 ben_vulpes: trinque: did it not work?

05:45:02 trinque: ben_vulpes: note the two deedbots which were necessary to make it listen

05:45:12 ben_vulpes: hahahaha

05:45:12 trinque: yet direct_only=False in the command

05:45:13 ben_vulpes: no.

05:45:15 trinque: whatever I'll figure it out

05:45:15 ben_vulpes: i did not.

05:45:25 ben_vulpes: meatfilters kicked in.

05:45:29 trinque: haha

05:45:37 trinque: one more try and I'll stop shitposting

05:45:41 trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

05:45:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDYl1C )

05:45:47 BingoBoingo: trinque: Just copy the punkbot interface

05:46:03 BingoBoingo: !up FrankU

05:46:06 trinque: BingoBoingo: the way it currently is, it just eats whatever URL

05:46:16 trinque: sees whether it's a key or message, does the right thing

05:46:26 trinque: I'm having to mention it though to get it to pay attention to commands

05:46:33 trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual

05:46:37 trinque: I am probably doing something wrong

05:46:44 BingoBoingo: trinque: The way punkbot did had no real commands.

05:46:52 trinque: BingoBoingo: yeh that's how this will be

05:47:10 BingoBoingo: I have my fears and reservations

05:47:50 trinque: life's scary

05:48:39 BingoBoingo: So noone's going to give a cheer to cheif Joe for making it from rehab to a nursing home?

05:48:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45256 @ 0.0002928 = 13.251 BTC [-]

05:50:07 decimation: ben_vulpes: what size volumes do you use?

05:53:02 ben_vulpes: 100g

05:53:09 ben_vulpes: +

05:53:16 decimation: sigh

05:53:21 decimation: that's 5 large per month

05:53:40 BingoBoingo: Not in pounds sterling... anymore

05:53:48 asciilifeform: http://io9.com/watch-a-pair-of-tank-mounted-fighter-jet-engines-exting-1675620218 << vintage l0l

05:53:49 assbot: Watch A Pair Of Tank-Mounted Fighter Jet Engines Extinguish An Oil Fire ... ( http://bit.ly/1xDZQgc )

05:53:56 ben_vulpes: for ssds sure

05:54:10 decimation: magnetic is 5 cents per gb-month

05:55:45 *: decimation contemplates having aws image network-mount his home 'block store'

05:56:02 ben_vulpes: hm no then my memory's flawed

05:56:13 decimation: $60 per year is for rich folk

05:56:49 ben_vulpes: mayhap

05:57:02 ben_vulpes: per earlier thread, now is the time to lay in magnetic drives, chips and ram.

05:59:01 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058637 < trying to practice

05:59:01 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:58:04; asciilifeform: possibly the most dangerous animal to be in the lands of usg (and au, as i understand, is a kind of target practice range for usg idiocies) is the fella with just enough to be worth skinning, but three or four zeroes short of mircea_popescu-esque atomic dirigible where he can hit back

06:00:04 ben_vulpes: practicing hitting back?

06:00:08 *: ben_vulpes did not parse

06:00:21 BingoBoingo: No appologies from there are possible. Fuckers targetted my mum.

06:00:48 decimation: no, I should have included his earlier point. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058631 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058634 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058635

06:00:48 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:55:00; asciilifeform: cazalla clearly has insufficient reputation for poverty

06:00:48 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:56:22; asciilifeform: cultivate this reputation.

06:00:48 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 00:56:30; asciilifeform: it may well save your skin

06:01:06 ben_vulpes: aha

06:04:21 trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

06:04:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1BKC )

06:04:40 BingoBoingo: Some lite skinned indian motherfucker was trying to exhaust my mum's ISP connection by seeding torrents of tv shows available over the air. I am the anger.

06:05:09 trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

06:05:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1LS7 )

06:05:18 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if it makesyafeelbetter, a phriend of mine once pwned an indian spamwalla centre where they did this.

06:05:22 trinque: oh derp

06:05:24 trinque: !up deedbot-

06:05:28 trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

06:05:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1QFl )

06:05:31 deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF

06:05:33 trinque: there it goes

06:06:08 *: asciilifeform must be off to sleep, and will leave you folks with http://engwonders.byethost9.com/e047.html

06:06:08 assbot: LONDON'S HYDRAULIC POWER ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1Wgl )

06:06:11 asciilifeform: ^ goes esp. for ben_vulpes

06:06:35 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The worst part is I know this had to have been targetted. Someone had to spend a non-trivial amount of time. I suspect a partcular name and yet...

06:07:04 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: You ever smuggled living people out of Usia?

06:07:29 BingoBoingo: !up smidge

06:08:43 brendafdez: BingoBoingo hahah no :P

06:08:54 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: You ever try?

06:09:29 brendafdez: BingoBoingo selling staff on our local eBay was easier, laziness always wins for me

06:09:40 brendafdez: *stuff

06:09:45 trinque: staff lol

06:10:12 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: are you willing to listen to a story in 3 parts?

06:10:17 trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

06:10:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1QFl )

06:10:19 deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF

06:10:21 brendafdez: BingoBoingo urm why not

06:11:25 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: So you know USia has federalism. The state level (Illinois in this case) defers to the county. In this case corrupt as St Clair county which contains East StL in its borders.

06:12:11 ben_vulpes: that looks like a good, trinque

06:12:21 trinque: ;;later tell mircea_popescu deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/thing.txt << still needs the colon, but now figures out whether it's a key or deed on its own

06:12:22 assbot: Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE2X7T )

06:12:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:12:33 BingoBoingo: For the longest time allegedly St Clair county has tried to fuck with me. 7 hours ago St Clair county seems to have made the jump from fucking with me specifically to fucking with members of my family.

06:12:34 trinque: ben_vulpes: yeh how do I associate the fucker with my account?

06:12:46 *: trinque could be less lazy and poke nickserv himself

06:12:50 ben_vulpes: make a new nick

06:13:03 ben_vulpes: associate it with your account by specifying your existing email iirc

06:13:13 ben_vulpes: or register it or however that works

06:13:21 ben_vulpes: poop into #freenode, get cloak for it

06:13:30 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: I'm of dutch and not sicilian ancestry so I can't make strong promises of vengance based on besmirching the family name.

06:13:39 ben_vulpes: ask kakobrekla about it, he's savvy to bot dynamics

06:13:41 trinque: ben_vulpes: ah k, no special "dis here be my bot"

06:13:45 trinque: k

06:13:51 ben_vulpes: also you'll wnt to talk to kakobrekla about permavoice in any event

06:14:00 brendafdez: BingoBoingo over here in brendaland utc -3 is a good time for stories :P also i hate that it's too hot and can't sleep. I was trying to avoid selling more btc to get a/c considering winter is supposed to be coming

06:14:07 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: I do however feel much less safe here in the middle west than I did even 24 hours ago

06:15:13 BingoBoingo: <brendafdez> BingoBoingo over here in brendaland utc -3 is a good time for stories :P also i hate that it's too hot and can't sleep. I was trying to avoid selling more btc to get a/c considering winter is supposed to be coming << Bingo is not all powerful like MP, but for the right price could correct all of these problems

06:15:46 *: BingoBoingo wishes his adversaries in USia would Va a Chengarse

06:17:06 brendafdez: BingoBoingo right for whom ;)

06:18:10 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: How familiar are you with William James and his psychology?

06:18:44 brendafdez: I'm not sure if 'not at all' conveys the whole meaning of my degree of ignorance

06:19:08 BingoBoingo: Well one can always elaborate more

06:20:18 brendafdez: So your feelings of 'unsafeness', where do they stem from?

06:20:33 brendafdez: I mean

06:20:39 BingoBoingo: From being in the middle of a hostile wasteland

06:20:56 brendafdez: Leaving USia would be hard?

06:21:01 BingoBoingo: Some years I am surrounded by Corn, the others soybeans

06:21:23 brendafdez: Well, here in Arg there are soybeans aplenty

06:21:39 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: Well, I'd have to get further south than Mexico. They might want me for lab work

06:21:51 brendafdez: but if you live close to the field you'll likely get intoxicated by the monsanto crap+

06:22:13 BingoBoingo: I live very close to fields I am prolly lost in that way already

06:22:32 brendafdez: dunno, maybe they are slightly more careful with that over there

06:23:22 BingoBoingo: I've lived through a warm midwestern spring already where you can smell the pigshit on the beanfields. Not a thing to relive voluntarily

06:24:06 trinque: that's what the texas panhandle smells like

06:24:07 brendafdez: story is making me love the big town

06:24:13 brendafdez: oh hah

06:24:21 trinque: shit and chemicals

06:24:33 trinque: I drove through there moving to the pacific nw

06:24:54 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: If you want to love anything at all here you would love the St Louis Cardinals. best art show in the middle west

06:25:19 brendafdez: just move here to argentina already :)

06:25:29 BingoBoingo: I need a way out

06:26:53 BingoBoingo: I actually kinda want to visit the phillipines before argentina

06:26:55 brendafdez: tbh, I doubt I'd be able to get a US tourist visa even, at the moment

06:27:19 BingoBoingo: Eh, not really worth it. What is there left to see?

06:28:39 brendafdez: dunno, but even just for the language id like to go. I mean it's weird for me speaking english so much in the internet, and never having been to an en speaking place.

06:29:28 brendafdez: it was an enjoyable experience when I lived in Germany for a brief period, a couple of months, just getting to speak the local language gave me the thrills (I'm weird, I know :P)

06:30:59 brendafdez: There I fell in love with a Russian girl, it was in 2008, it was awesome that we'd both speak with each other in a language that was foreign for both, felt special, like being in bitcoin these days (?

06:32:38 *: BingoBoingo kinda wants to it the phils before .ar to pick up a cheap wife

06:32:54 BingoBoingo: German as a language is the suck

06:33:08 brendafdez: BingoBoingo if much of your feelings of unsafeness stem from local State corruption, you'd like it in Argentina. It's not that there's no corruption over here, on the contrary, but they get to interefere much less with peoples lives. The fact that people here see the US as the land of freedom really boggles the mind.

06:33:29 brendafdez: IT was the hottest thing ever, girl whispering in german softly to your ear... ahhh priceless.

06:33:42 BingoBoingo: That's the problem. Here they pretend no corruptness while being sooper corrupt.

06:33:44 brendafdez: even with her russian accent, only made it better

06:34:28 *: BingoBoingo thinks bagging a north Korean chick would be better than Everest

06:35:49 BingoBoingo: Just the German language doesnt allow for the flirting that makes the pursuit fun

06:37:00 brendafdez: They must be really cheap :P

06:37:57 trinque: ICH WILL DICH

06:38:03 trinque: sounds like you're going to drain her blood

06:38:14 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: In USia everything is cheap

06:38:29 brendafdez: you can say it softly, but people tend to picture it in their minds with a Hitler voice xD

06:38:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77236 @ 0.00030327 = 23.4234 BTC [+] {2}

06:38:43 brendafdez: then it the most un-hot language imaginable

06:39:00 trinque: brendafdez: admittedly probably more like rammstein

06:39:01 brendafdez: unless you're into Hilter-voiced people xD

06:39:06 brendafdez: yep

06:39:12 brendafdez: more like Rammstein

06:39:32 brendafdez: I could never bring myself to like them, but I liked bands that were such crap

06:39:50 brendafdez: I was still a teenager, so you can't blame me ;)

06:39:53 trinque: pissed off my parents, good enough for me in early teens

06:40:00 BingoBoingo: I've always found German the hottest when I though the Girl might bake me

06:40:25 brendafdez: :D

06:41:11 brendafdez: I need to find a foreign-speaking gf/bf/whatever soon, being with the locals doesn't compare

06:41:28 brendafdez: not that I have much success with the locals, either...

06:41:35 BingoBoingo: There was this hot German exchange chick in High School my sernior year evern though every class was equivalent of her Junior year. Let's refer to her a Kirsten Nao

06:42:18 BingoBoingo: Kirsten successfully corrected me away from monogamy

06:42:31 brendafdez: you're forever indebted with her

06:42:42 BingoBoingo: Maybe?

06:42:55 brendafdez: the sooner you fix that monogamy thing the better, me thinks

06:43:47 BingoBoingo: The getting off part is fine. I'm just not much one for the loving part.

06:44:05 brendafdez: St Louis Cardinals was a baseball team then? That was the art show? :P

06:44:26 BingoBoingo: It is totally still a thing. It is my favorite baseball team

06:44:56 BingoBoingo: The art show is the wa Wainright gets opposing pitchers out

06:45:13 BingoBoingo: It is serious art embeded in human motion

06:46:26 brendafdez: art is in the eye of the beholder, so I won't dispute that. I would however find it hard to see art in sport. It must be there, but generally I just couldn't care less. When there's a major sports event here, it means 'good time to go outside and take pictures of the empty streets and such'

06:47:32 BingoBoingo: Oh, I'm not talking about someone who throws the ball the hardest. I mean art. Waino tosses the ball among the most pleasing line.

06:48:04 brendafdez: Lots to learn, maybe I could appreciate it someday...

06:48:22 trinque: other than that, I don't know that the US is producing a lot of worthwhile art

06:48:56 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: You've been in .ar forever?

06:49:35 brendafdez: always lived here, yes, except for two months or so i lived in munich bc some stupid institute decided to foot the bill :D

06:50:14 brendafdez: apart from that, i've only travelled briefly to neighboring countries, like uruguay (many times), brazil (once), paraguay (once)

06:50:18 BingoBoingo: The best way I can explain baseball aesthetically then is as a dance where every movement holds the entire game at stake

06:51:47 BingoBoingo: It is neatly the opposite of the abortus which purports to host a "super bowl"

06:53:27 BingoBoingo: This scrawny dude is actually my favorite player http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carpema01.shtml

06:53:29 assbot: Matt Carpenter Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbTkFq )

06:54:47 BingoBoingo: Dude know how to avoid getting out

06:56:33 BingoBoingo: http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2015/03/19/dongle_history_etymology_and_word_and_sound_associations_explained.html

06:56:35 assbot: Dongle history, etymology, and word and sound associations, explained. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbTOvo )

07:07:32 fluffypony: I saw a Cards game in 2010 when I was in St. Louis

07:07:42 fluffypony: bought a Pujols t-shirt and everything

07:08:06 fluffypony: made the mistake of wearing that when flying out of Dallas to go back home, and had random people shouting "Go Cards!" at me

07:08:14 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: And then he left

07:08:33 BingoBoingo: It hurt

07:12:32 cazalla: brendafdez, while in Germany, were you a girl yet?

07:26:18 brendafdez: nope, i was presenting male :P

07:38:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49592 @ 0.0002928 = 14.5205 BTC [-]

07:52:07 BingoBoingo: !up odyjm

08:06:49 cazalla: anyone read ukraineo

08:09:14 cazalla: http://forklog.com/sluzhba-bezopasnosti-ukrainy-bitkoin-ispolzuetsya-dlya-finansirovaniya-separatistov/ if anyone can translate accurately

08:09:15 assbot: Служба безопасности Украины: биткоин используется для финансирования сепаратистов | Bitcoin новости ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzMHdh )

08:14:18 BingoBoingo: ^ transaltion blows the fuck up

08:56:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00030101 = 7.5253 BTC [+]

08:58:30 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

08:59:05 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 259.0, vol: 11891.50982578 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 256.74, vol: 9534.25606 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 260.41, vol: 54648.2626453 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 263.56, vol: 3.05171398 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 259.907463, vol: 254519.98310000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 255.00001, vol: 3.10171189 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 265.0128, vol: 121.40926025 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

09:06:29 brendafdez: drunk and all you still care about the price? :P

09:07:13 BingoBoingo: Nah, I jsut wanna see the hipsters burn

09:10:23 cazalla: the old mircea_popescu pic complemented fraudsters, but this new one is difficult with MP staring at you while you read

09:11:00 brendafdez: it's scary

09:11:11 brendafdez: but we'll get used to it, i hope

09:11:26 cazalla: brendafdez, you don't care about the price?

09:12:11 cazalla: scary? i won't give him that :)

09:12:27 cazalla: how about.. i'm trying to read here, do you mind?

09:13:01 brendafdez: if i'm not gonna do anything based on that information atm there's no reason i should care...

09:13:22 BingoBoingo: ease it up

09:13:50 brendafdez: Don't drink and #b-a

09:13:59 BingoBoingo: Everyone here is here to read fraudsters basically

09:22:10 brendafdez: or thedrinkingrecord :P

09:22:25 BingoBoingo: lol, yeah

09:25:00 cazalla: fucking media here.. former PM malcolm fraser dies.. every politician gets his 5 minutes in every newspaper, twitter feed, radio stream to express what a great leader, game changer etc etc the dead guy was

09:26:25 cazalla: at least it seems that way anyway

09:31:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81550 @ 0.00030275 = 24.6893 BTC [+] {3}

09:34:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68027 @ 0.00030506 = 20.7523 BTC [+] {2}

09:35:21 chetty: cazalla better they talk about that than whatever new evil laws they are up to

09:35:59 cazalla: chetty, that would be retaining meta data for 2 years

09:36:28 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058040 <<< according to what you say it would be *most* people go that route, since the beginning of 2015 there are two deposits that could match an account creation, when there are 750 btc on the new accounts revenue line

09:36:28 assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 20:22:56; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057738 << it is. people (especially people kinda too lazy to study things in depth) have all sorts of theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses etc. it's a fashion is what it is, one i don't aim to encourage, and i'm stuck because w/e, serving teh customer.

09:36:33 cazalla: as well as a black list to block sites like thepiratebay.. fraser's death couldn't have been timed better tbh

09:41:42 cazalla: the 2 year retention period is sorta bullshit anyway as it's the ISPs who need to keep the data for 2 years, but if a gov dept such as ASIO or the police request that data, they are allowed to keep it forever, so i'm sure they will just request all data so that they can keep it forever (if they aren't already doing it)

09:44:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00029657 = 31.214 BTC [-] {2}

10:19:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00030524 = 1.4957 BTC [+]

10:42:05 davout: !up deedbot-

10:42:17 davout: deedbot-: add-deed http://dpaste.com/3QD6MT5.txt

10:42:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BECOXf )

10:44:51 davout: trinque: ^ doth not work?

11:04:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00030524 = 11.2328 BTC [+]

11:04:53 mircea_popescu: trinque nice.

11:10:46 davout: ohai mircea_popescu

11:11:06 mircea_popescu: heya

11:12:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00030525 = 19.4139 BTC [+] {2}

11:12:21 mircea_popescu: A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: webmaster@extropy.org

11:12:22 mircea_popescu: aww.

11:18:07 mircea_popescu: !up DigitalDayTrader

11:18:44 mircea_popescu: with all this digitality of modernity, it turns out the postwar mobsters were eerily before their time.

11:18:55 mircea_popescu: "give us the money or we're taking your digits!"

11:22:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.0003053 = 2.1829 BTC [+]

11:24:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059532 << it is ?

11:24:20 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:13:40; asciilifeform: the helicopter is the symbol of statal power against the peon schmuck

11:24:23 mircea_popescu: maybe in vietnam.

11:25:50 davout: i'd tend to agree with asciilifeform, what are all these US police helicopter-chase shows for if not for clearly asserting that "there's nowhere to run" ?

11:25:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059539 << same's said of sailing. meanwhile most people sailing or flying independently are actually poor, mostly on account of rich people not wanting to take that sort of risk.

11:25:55 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:15:29; asciilifeform: but soon it was clear even to imbeciles that flying was an aristocrat's (or totalitarian thug enforcer's...) game.

11:26:26 mircea_popescu: davout but then again, they don't have to be FOR something. they may well just be BECAUSE of something, that something being "we got a helicopter"

11:26:30 davout: flying *is* pretty awesome :D

11:26:38 mircea_popescu: that in turn being because helicopters exist in the first place.

11:27:05 mircea_popescu: im sure driving a car is pretty awesome to fish, and for the same reason : "mamma mia if i crash this tank im fucked"

11:27:13 davout: does anyone know that pilot joke? "how do you know someone's a pilot?"

11:27:22 mircea_popescu: how ?

11:27:29 davout: he'll tell you

11:27:36 mircea_popescu: lol.

11:27:52 mircea_popescu: anyway, last fucking job you want in a conflict zone is flying the helicopters.

11:28:23 mircea_popescu: only job to score consistently under tradecraft for security.

11:29:43 cazalla: too many people were all "lulz, i lazered the pilot" here in australia so anything over 1mw.. banned

11:30:14 mircea_popescu: ... 1 mw ?!

11:30:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60981 @ 0.0003053 = 18.6175 BTC [+]

11:30:28 mircea_popescu: oh oh mW not MW

11:30:37 cazalla: ya sorry, milliwatt

11:30:50 mircea_popescu: i was like omfg australia, large spiders, larger lasers.

11:31:23 cazalla: people were lulz lazering athletes at games too

11:31:29 davout: lelz, lasering pilots is so fucking retarded

11:32:04 cazalla: davout, yeah.. they coined it "lazer attacks"

11:32:13 cazalla: example http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/citys-worst-laser-attacks-on-aircraft/2008/03/29/1206207485440.html

11:32:15 assbot: City's worst laser attacks on aircraft - Travel - smh.com.au ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjGJnj )

11:32:23 davout: it's like everyone in the sky gets pissed at you, while the laserer conveniently gives a massive arrow pointing to his sorry ass

11:32:47 mircea_popescu: does calling it "attacks" make it moar important ?

11:33:03 davout: it *is* pretty dangerous

11:33:26 cazalla: everyone had these fucking things circa 2008, all from dx.com

11:33:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63150 @ 0.00029536 = 18.652 BTC [-]

11:33:39 mircea_popescu: "These gutless and cowardly attacks have to be stopped," he said. "I am preparing a proposal to cabinet to consider making these items a prohibited weapon."

11:33:49 mircea_popescu: davout it is ?

11:33:50 davout: just like retards flying drones in restricted airspace are dangerous as well

11:34:02 mircea_popescu: the drones i can actually see.

11:34:12 cazalla: mircea_popescu, the pollie that said that got busted for gay sex like a year later, clearly didn't want to play ball anymore (or did)

11:34:22 mircea_popescu: they're sort-of like turkeys, which have caused problems in the past, so planes have been shielded against them, so it no longer matters.

11:34:29 mircea_popescu: so they don't actually do anything, so nevermind.

11:34:47 davout: mircea_popescu: i hang around a bit on /r/flying, also watched a few vids of ATPs being lasered and yes, it does look pretty dangerous

11:34:58 mircea_popescu: not the original statement hm ?

11:34:58 chetty: humans, more and more clever ways to commit mayhem on each other.

11:35:56 davout: and it's not like you'll get lasered at high altitudes with the PA on and your cock in some flight attendant's mouth, you'll get lasered when approaching

11:36:36 mircea_popescu: davout and your windows won't protect you, because... antiglare's not been invented.

11:36:41 mircea_popescu: what do they do in the sun ?

11:36:48 davout: it will illuminate the cockpit, blind you, will take your mind off of your checklist

11:36:50 mircea_popescu: drop down those flaps like they have in the car ?

11:36:59 mircea_popescu: it won't fucking blind you.

11:37:10 mircea_popescu: it will iluminate the cockpit less than what fucking police lights do.

11:37:21 davout: my cessna has these flaps you speak of :D

11:37:29 mircea_popescu: what next, this is a legitimate car crash reason ? "police lights illuminated my cockpit your honor. let the police dept pay."

11:37:48 cazalla: damn, that is not a half bad idea

11:37:52 mircea_popescu: yw.

11:37:53 fluffypony: lol

11:38:15 mircea_popescu: "omaigawd stuffwas illuminated, i totally lost my trtain of thought. o look, unicorns!!1"

11:39:01 mircea_popescu: anyway, all this beating around the bush. here's to making the penis a dangerous weapon.

11:39:14 cazalla: the trajectory of the sun combined with the police lights and lazer mounted drone caused me to run down mr gavin by accident

11:39:29 davout: you don't want to miss shit on your checklist

11:39:43 mircea_popescu: no, you don't. so don't miss shit on your fucking checklist.

11:40:02 *: cazalla points green lazer at davout.. lol lazered

11:40:33 mircea_popescu: now, mind you, i'm the first to agree the lasers are fucking annyoing and the idiots wielding them need better hobbies.

11:40:47 mircea_popescu: but those facts don't make derpy lasers "weapons" and etc etc.

11:41:07 davout: "Pilots unanimously say that the effect of a laser-pen's beam in the cockpit is very similar to the effect of a car's high-beam headlights at a short distance -- it blinds you. The decision-making time before a landing is only 10 critical seconds, pilots say -- and these moments are not to fight green laser beams, but to make critically important decisions. "

11:41:17 davout: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI7Qq1mYQlI

11:41:18 assbot: 'Laser attack' caught on tape: View from plane cockpit - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjH1dT )

11:42:21 davout: not saying that this is a good reason to forbid lasers, i'm saying they can be pretty dangerous

11:42:35 mircea_popescu: davout but that's not the cockpit, that's the cam.

11:42:49 cazalla: the australian law, at least as i see it, was more them saying, ok you've had your fun but no more of this please

11:42:54 mircea_popescu: and if maximally zoomed (looks about 16x) it very briefly shines.

11:43:16 davout: if that's the effect on the cam, it's not a complete stretch to say that you can believe pilots when they say it's blinding

11:43:20 mircea_popescu: pretty much exactly consistent with what i[ve been saying last time we did this laser thing

11:43:27 davout: and you have a larger view later on the video

11:43:36 mircea_popescu: well if you've ever used cams, it actually is, yes.

11:43:44 Adlai: you could achieve a similar effect against drivers with a cheap camera + servos aiming it... let's ban all electronics!

11:43:52 davout: it's unclear to me why pilots would make that up

11:44:02 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2015#1034826 << problem, blockchain on disk depends on the order in which it saw those 'orphans'

11:44:02 assbot: Logged on 26-02-2015 21:23:55; asciilifeform: if ends up with bitwise identical blockchain on disk (minus time data) then quite likely correct.

11:44:06 davout: instead of putting their shades on and shrugging it off

11:44:06 mircea_popescu: davout pilots did not make anything up. they say it's fucking annoying. im sure it is.

11:44:27 mircea_popescu: then bureaucrat drones are going on about weapons and whatnot, with nary a clue about anything but what could be persuasively argued to a mostly clueless public.

11:44:40 mircea_popescu: this is fine as far as the system goes, it's own "democratic" logic, et all.

11:44:46 mircea_popescu: but it's still ridoinculous.

11:44:58 mircea_popescu: davout you ever been with a group of professionals ?

11:45:15 davout: professionals in what field? aeronautics?

11:45:18 mircea_popescu: when met with any novel thing, the bulk will shrug and carry on, the 19% marginals will yak about it,

11:45:29 mircea_popescu: because it distracts from a discussion about how they suck, and people should fire them

11:45:33 mircea_popescu: in any fucking field.

11:46:25 cazalla: ima firen mah lazer

11:46:30 mircea_popescu: Adlai i suppose he meant bitwise identical star, to be translated as, same txn

11:46:40 Adlai: hm?

11:46:52 mircea_popescu: "if ends up with bitwise identical* blockchain"

11:47:39 davout: i think you underestimate the danger of having a laser pointed at you when you're doing an approach

11:47:45 Adlai: what [i think] you want is identical answers to whether a transaction is valid

11:47:59 mircea_popescu: davout that may be true.

11:48:15 mircea_popescu: Adlai you want the same exact set of transactions to have been accepted.

11:49:24 mircea_popescu: davout but it turns out, stuff like aegis cruisers don't have lasers installed to blind enemy pilots, dropped chaff isn't tiny shining laser pointers etc.

11:49:38 mircea_popescu: as far as weaponry goes, let's look at you know, weaponry.

11:50:29 davout: that's kind of like saying "if banana peels are dangerous, why don't the US marines carry them around" :D

11:50:54 Adlai: why aren't the terrorists yelling fire in crowded theatresL

11:50:57 mircea_popescu: the discussion wasn't if this is annoying or not, but whether the drone droning about weapons had a point. at least in my head.

11:51:26 mircea_popescu: wouldja say banana peels are weapons or something ?

11:51:52 mircea_popescu: for that matter, suppose some asshole runs around throwing banana peels right before people. and he gets busted for "assault with a dangerous weapon".

11:51:55 davout: they can be deadly if strategically placed

11:51:56 mircea_popescu: you gonna make that charge stick ?

11:52:00 davout: naaah

11:52:27 mircea_popescu: good cause there's all sorts of instructional videos on how to defend yourself.

11:52:39 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

11:52:40 assbot: Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjHo8d )

11:52:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89900 @ 0.00030584 = 27.495 BTC [+] {2}

11:53:15 davout: look, i'm not arguing that because they are annoying and potentially dangerous to aircrafts that gives a justification to anyone to forbid them, simply stating that retards will be retards, and annoy pilots in a sensitive flight phase

11:53:21 mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose the difference between "this is slightly annoying' and "this is terrorism" has long been lost.

11:53:49 Adlai: so maybe, lobbyists looking for lobbies to lob should try to get all aircraft windows tinted

11:53:56 davout: mircea_popescu: sure

11:54:43 davout: few days ago in france: "terrorism is bad, let's lower the limit for cash payments from 3000 to 1000€"

11:54:49 mircea_popescu: heh.

11:55:07 mircea_popescu: no but seriously, someone could use 3k euros to buy a proper rifle + bullets.

11:55:13 mircea_popescu: 1k euros not enough for this.

11:55:24 mircea_popescu: course inflation'd have naturally fixed that over time.

11:55:44 mircea_popescu: (anyone notice how those "limits" are not yearly indexed, like govt pensions ?)

11:55:46 davout: "thank you for this kalashnikov, may i have my receipt"

11:56:17 cazalla: they're trying to push through mandatory sentencing for weapons here down under.. 5 years for trafficking hand guns etc

11:56:17 mircea_popescu: davout are you intimating the bureaucracy's ineffective because it lives in its own world anyway ?

11:56:22 mircea_popescu: fucking french terrorists.

11:56:39 mircea_popescu: cazalla "mandatory sentencing" is the most ridiculous perversion of justice ever.

11:56:51 mircea_popescu: essentially stalin's administrative powers thing.

11:56:57 cazalla: someone is breaking into my home.. best i call the police to come in 10m time because law does not permit me to own a shot gun to blast the cunt in seconds

11:57:15 davout: cazalla: BLAST IT WITH PISS

11:57:35 cazalla: davout, not even mine is big enough to kill loaded with booze

11:58:11 mircea_popescu: cazalla why not use lasers ?

11:58:30 mircea_popescu: now i understand finally the crazy shit stick on all sides of rifle bit.

11:58:37 mircea_popescu: all those tactical lights ARE REALLY WEAPONS

11:58:39 davout: mircea_popescu: to be honest, a strategically banana peel might be more effective in this particular case

11:58:47 davout: *placed

11:58:53 mircea_popescu: lol

11:59:08 mircea_popescu: ;;google guy that crossed atlantic in a barrel died in new york, slipping on banana peel

11:59:10 gribble: Banana split: Worker peels back skin to find two fruits in one | Daily ...: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1279150/Banana-split-Worker-peels-skin-fruits-one.html; The appeal of peel: The surprising ways fruit and veg skins can work ...: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2004070/The-appeal-peel-The-surprising-ways-fruit-veg-skins-work-wonders-looks.html; (1 more message)

11:59:11 mircea_popescu: ^ real event.

11:59:14 cazalla: lazer illegal, plastic knife illegal (if used as weapon), baseball bat also illegal if kept in bedroom because no legitimate reason to keep it there, must fetch from car and come back to bedroom to beat off attacker

11:59:32 mircea_popescu: cazalla doesn't sound like much of a country does it ?

11:59:53 mircea_popescu: what the fuck "not much reason to keep it there". what fucking reason does uninvited third party have to be in your bedroom ?

11:59:57 mircea_popescu: let's start with that.

12:00:36 cazalla: not "not much reason" but no reason, why would a law abiding citizen keep his sporting equipment under the bed? surely it is in garage with the rest of the foosballs etc

12:00:58 mircea_popescu: because the wife's a stretcher ?

12:00:59 davout: cazalla: mebbe it's for butseks

12:01:10 mircea_popescu: seriously, nobody run the endless reels of "woman fucks baseball bat" for the court on that one ?

12:01:15 mircea_popescu: talk about dropping the ball.

12:01:19 cazalla: i could've claimed so with the ex gf but not this woman

12:01:26 mircea_popescu: so she's training for it.

12:01:49 davout: "she's starting by getting used to the bat's presence your honor"

12:01:54 cazalla: ex could've taken 2 tbh

12:02:15 cazalla: she was a champ like that

12:03:23 mircea_popescu: what, one in butt one in cunt, then walk on them ?

12:03:28 mircea_popescu: that'd be an act.

12:03:47 cazalla: nah 2 in cunt, guess 1 in the ass too

12:03:59 cazalla: damn, she was the best lay but would've made for a shitty mother

12:04:14 mircea_popescu: this is why one needs pairs.

12:04:55 cazalla: dependent on bitcoin, goes up enough, i have a place or two for such women

12:05:00 cazalla: as it is atm, no can do

12:05:14 mircea_popescu: well what's the rush.

12:05:20 mircea_popescu: gotta be unable to get it up, first.

12:05:22 cazalla: well, isnt any atm

12:05:36 mircea_popescu: then you can make comments to them about their black boyfriends and we can ostracize you and take your stadium away.

12:05:37 davout: hahaha

12:06:09 mircea_popescu: cazalla how do you know the shitty mother bit btw ?

12:06:16 mircea_popescu: afaik reformed whores make the best mothers.

12:06:24 cazalla: mircea_popescu, because she fucked around with shit like tramadol

12:06:34 mircea_popescu: ...

12:06:35 cazalla: she was fucking useless for anything else but sex

12:06:49 mircea_popescu: wait. how do you fuck around with antipyretics ?!

12:07:00 cazalla: a kid would be lucky to get 1 meal a day with such a woman

12:07:13 mircea_popescu: o wait, that's the opioid huh.

12:07:27 cazalla: i dunno, never tried it, she use to steal it from work place

12:08:22 mircea_popescu: well, reformed was in there for a reason.

12:08:52 cazalla: well i wouldn't know seeing i didn't stick around to find out

12:09:10 cazalla: i thought the naive virginal conservative wife would make for the best mother

12:09:15 cazalla: i made my bed, so now i sleep in it

12:09:53 mircea_popescu: conservatives don't make very good parents for that reason. kinda why nature put all the poop in the process, make sure it gets a fair shot.

12:10:02 cazalla: all the 10 inched black boyfriends in the world wouldn't make any difference for some types of women anyway

12:10:48 mircea_popescu: is 10 inches big or small these days ?

12:10:54 mircea_popescu: i've not been following the internet conversation.

12:11:15 cazalla: seems to be the average, but i dunno

12:11:55 mircea_popescu: average in what, horses ?

12:12:27 cazalla: i have nfi, too much to drink

12:13:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059635 << which is the manual ?

12:13:55 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:46:33; trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual

12:18:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059683 << eh get out srsly. it doesn't get any more random and unintentional than that.

12:18:34 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:06:35; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The worst part is I know this had to have been targetted. Someone had to spend a non-trivial amount of time. I suspect a partcular name and yet...

12:20:42 cazalla: i tried to convince him of such in PM yet.. he convinced me drinking was a good idea (ok not really, not like i need much encouragement)

12:21:02 mircea_popescu: in other news, derpy mcsweater-glass and his two nude friends : http://40.media.tumblr.com/c3b9d92eacede7d95def9d6ee99f578b/tumblr_myjsgrcYzT1rjqog4o1_1280.jpg

12:21:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjIocv )

12:22:13 mircea_popescu: cazalla lol you two need to stop drinking and buy coins from the proceeds.

12:22:27 mircea_popescu: end up richest dudes in b-a.

12:23:42 cazalla: i've prob pissed away 2-3k the past 12-18 months on booze

12:23:57 mircea_popescu: ah, nm, that's not so bad

12:24:04 mircea_popescu: i think i spent about the same.

12:24:18 cazalla: could be more, could be less, just a guestimate

12:24:22 cazalla: let's see

12:24:33 Adlai: 2-3k << ozd?

12:25:27 mircea_popescu: five bucks a day, that's like what, a drink.

12:25:39 cazalla: $60x78=4680 so sorta in range

12:25:44 mircea_popescu: you're supposed to drink that much just to keep the shit from migrating to your head.

12:26:05 cazalla: acutally i quit for years, sober as a judge

12:26:39 mircea_popescu: cazalla you ever seen "some came running" ?

12:26:44 cazalla: of course, i would not be rotting away where i will be monday if i remained sober lol

12:27:29 cazalla: nope

12:27:45 mircea_popescu: dean martin is this total drunk, and at some point he says to sinatra

12:27:55 mircea_popescu: "you know ever since you quit drinking you've been insufferable ?!"

12:28:31 cazalla: i prolly was, only took it up again a month or so before missus had baby

12:28:56 cazalla: in fact, i would harp on to my brother, who i lived with at the time, that he needed to quit drinking

12:29:27 mircea_popescu: did he ?

12:30:07 cazalla: not sure tbh, we didn't speak for a few years, only recently began talking again

12:30:16 cazalla: i assume he drinks though given he's back at the parents and god knows they drink

12:31:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059745 << ru chicks will take over the world.

12:31:09 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:30:59; brendafdez: There I fell in love with a Russian girl, it was in 2008, it was awesome that we'd both speak with each other in a language that was foreign for both, felt special, like being in bitcoin these days (?

12:31:51 cazalla: geei hope not, can't say ruski women do it for me

12:32:01 cazalla: even the bond goldeneye girls were meh

12:32:03 mircea_popescu: ever had one ?

12:32:23 cazalla: well no, but

12:32:34 cazalla: i did work with a short haired ruski chick

12:32:35 mircea_popescu: well don't knock it fore you've... uh. you know.

12:33:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059746 << you know that's the wrong way to go about the wife business. if you just want a cheap one the cheapest wife you could ever get is no wife at all.

12:33:02 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:32:38; *: BingoBoingo kinda wants to it the phils before .ar to pick up a cheap wife

12:34:20 cazalla: mircea_popescu, not many down under, not like i'll ever leave

12:34:27 cazalla: so unless they come here..

12:34:28 mircea_popescu: brendafdez: The fact that people here see the US as the land of freedom really boggles the mind.<< they believe teh movies.

12:34:35 cazalla: plenty of chinese

12:34:59 mircea_popescu: cazalla used to know this chick, eventualy gave up teh life married some guy went to melbourne

12:35:07 mircea_popescu: im sure there's plenty in ozland.

12:35:31 cazalla: melbourne sucks

12:35:38 cazalla: not even sure why pete would waste his time coming to this shit hole

12:35:49 mircea_popescu: most everyone lives there neh ?

12:35:54 cazalla: there is nothing redeeming about it at all

12:36:10 cazalla: mircea_popescu, and sydney, yeah

12:36:14 cazalla: both are shit

12:36:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059755 << will = liebe ?

12:36:22 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 06:37:57; trinque: ICH WILL DICH

12:36:58 mircea_popescu: or wtf's that suppost to be

12:37:15 cazalla: they tear down anything old and replace it with modern architecture, and what they can't pull down completely, they subert the old by merging the new into it

12:37:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00030614 = 23.5116 BTC [+] {2}

12:37:33 cazalla: anyway, tasmania is best australia

12:38:26 mircea_popescu: lmao this log. im bashing this shit

12:38:41 nubbins`: http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/resources/Laser-hazard-distance-chart.pdf

12:38:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJ0Pa )

12:38:53 nubbins`: TIL mp doesn't think lazers in yr eyes are bad ;/

12:39:44 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxDHW2MvBw

12:39:45 assbot: Seinfeld — Puerto Rican Day: The Apartment (HD) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJ5Co )

12:41:21 nubbins`: mircea_popescu:for that matter, suppose some asshole runs around throwing banana peels right before people. and he gets busted for "assault with a dangerous weapon". <<< now you're just shoehorning

12:41:39 mircea_popescu: that's a thing ?

12:42:05 nubbins`: sure is

12:42:33 mircea_popescu: "Shoehorning is a ploy used by psychics, or religious apologetic or other charlatans, as a way to make it sound like their prophecies or those of earlier prophets had come true. "

12:42:36 mircea_popescu: o.O

12:43:37 mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoehorning << notwithstanding the bad grammar, that's one of the more representative wikipedia articles i dare say.

12:43:39 assbot: Shoehorning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJfK8 )

12:43:47 mircea_popescu: nubbins` anyway, why ?

12:44:30 nubbins`: idk about wikitardia definition, but you're just being pedantic 8)

12:45:02 nubbins`: suppose the asshole leaves a banana peel at the top of the stairs

12:45:08 nubbins`: "wasn't a weapon, whatcha gonna do"

12:45:13 mircea_popescu: exactly.

12:45:19 mircea_popescu: what, you expect the law to intervene ?

12:45:30 nubbins`: before the fact? c'est impossible

12:45:58 mircea_popescu: before or after,

12:46:06 mircea_popescu: or in the commerce of bannanas.

12:46:34 nubbins`: isn't this much less circuitous than the original discussion 8)

12:46:59 nubbins`: but i guess you're more of a journey guy than a destination guy, hey

12:47:03 mircea_popescu: well i dunno lol. i tend to follow.

12:47:21 nubbins`: unrelated, i *just* clued into the mad hatter's hat from TTLG

12:47:26 nubbins`: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/114/114-h/images/alice38a.gif

12:47:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJmp8 )

12:47:35 mircea_popescu: ;;ud ttlg

12:47:36 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=through+the+looking+glass | Similar to the twilight zone, where nothing is quite what it seems. In Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass book, it can mean clocks that work...

12:48:34 nubbins`: last 33 years: "why does his hat say 10/6?"

12:48:48 nubbins`: today: "wat, it says 'in this style' above it? o"

12:49:41 mircea_popescu: it's 10 shillings and 6pence.

12:50:05 nubbins`: nod

12:50:15 nubbins`: i did not have this knowledge last i read it ;/

12:50:35 mircea_popescu: so you figurted out british coin notations from "in this style" ?

12:51:42 nubbins`: stumbled across £sd notation a couple months ago

12:51:49 nubbins`: and today, stumbled across the mad hatter again

12:52:09 nubbins`: !up cazalla

12:52:23 nubbins`: mircea_popescu understand that this is akin to discovering jam is made from berries

12:52:23 cazalla: ty nubbins` fucking power out and i'm too drunk/tired to ferry shit back and forth over usb

12:52:26 nubbins`: i'm floored here

12:52:38 nubbins`: anyway bbl COSTCO

12:54:07 cazalla: is that where you get bulk corn sizzurp? (they got costco's here now)

12:54:44 cazalla: in fact, they have a costco just a few streets away from here, not that i've been.. pay for membership? fuck that, costco drastically underestimates australian refusal to pay for membershits

12:55:36 mircea_popescu: the romanian bulk supplier (metro) just wants you to have a company.

12:55:49 nubbins`: bulk vanilla extract too

12:56:04 nubbins`: srsly, 1L for the same price as the little tiny bottles the groc store sells

12:56:21 mircea_popescu: no wait, wrong one. selgros.

12:56:26 nubbins`: cazalla if you shop at costco ~3-4 times in a year, you're ahead

12:56:37 cazalla: nubbins`, doubt they sell what i buy

12:56:42 *: nubbins` shrugs

12:57:00 nubbins`: you don't buy food?

12:57:13 cazalla: of course i do

12:57:23 mircea_popescu: cazalla it's improbable. generally wholesalers carry everything everyone else carries + more + they sell it cheaper + they deliver.

12:57:50 cazalla: sure, if you don't mind eating shit shipped in from china

12:58:02 mircea_popescu: mno.

12:58:02 cazalla: mm tasty bleached ass garlic, make it nice and white like snow white herself

12:58:35 mircea_popescu: well it's not for produce, yo.

12:58:49 cazalla: then wtf would u buy from a place like costco?

13:00:06 mircea_popescu: well costco i never used, but in general cash & carry is where you buy a whole round cheese, that's actually grana padano etc.

13:00:17 nubbins`: costco actually sells top quality produce

13:00:22 cazalla: i get my meet/veg/fruit from local who supposedly provides australian grown produce (i am not so naive to believe that some scheming fuckers didn't figure out they could import shit from china and just label it grown in australia but what can you do)

13:00:23 nubbins`: best meat shop in the city too

13:00:25 nubbins`: anyway bbl

13:01:07 mircea_popescu: cazalla ok, meat comes from butcher, produce from grocer. these you don't buy at the warehouse, as there's really no need to warehouse them. but what about everything else ?

13:01:18 cazalla: for other speciality shit, i use farmhousedirect.com.au

13:01:23 mircea_popescu: the stuff that's usually called "colonials" ? the stuff that has to be impoirted 5000 miles away ?

13:01:33 cazalla: like what? give an example

13:01:50 mircea_popescu: so they carry filippo berio olive oil ?

13:02:13 cazalla: i use australian grown olive oil and macadamia oil

13:02:19 mircea_popescu: rio mare salmon paste ?

13:02:28 cazalla: we got salmon growing down tasmania

13:02:37 chetty: L&P

13:02:40 cazalla: farmed, but still

13:02:49 mircea_popescu: a whole range of french (president ?) and italian cheeses ?

13:03:04 cazalla: got the wog deli en masse

13:03:09 danielpbarron: height=288329 vs height=213141

13:03:22 mircea_popescu: cazalla well then you don't need it.

13:04:13 cazalla: i can't imagine for a second that even if costco had this sorta food down under, that it would actually be cheaper or better quality

13:04:32 mircea_popescu: this is exactly the sort of doubt fit for an experiment.

13:04:52 mircea_popescu: i used your deli model in the us, and the cash & carry in ro. it all depends on the place really.

13:04:54 cazalla: then they can pay me to experiement

13:05:25 cazalla: the only people i see waddling into the costco here at fat asses

13:05:38 cazalla: and they sure as fuck are not spending good money on good food

13:05:56 mircea_popescu: that's not a bad heuristic.

13:06:07 mircea_popescu: "shop for food where people who look like you want to look shop for food"

13:06:36 cazalla: i show you last weeks order

13:06:42 cazalla: and then you fkn tell me if u get this shit at costco

13:07:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.0003062 = 14.1158 BTC [+] {2}

13:07:09 mircea_popescu: cat's got a thread! http://41.media.tumblr.com/7fc849c6bbc1b7bac3f2c13871445b8e/tumblr_mmap4wrUGR1r2x6jpo1_1280.jpg

13:07:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjKk4M )

13:07:34 mircea_popescu: cazalla i have nfi what costco carries.

13:08:08 chetty: ever been to a costco MP?

13:08:34 mircea_popescu: maybe.

13:08:42 mircea_popescu: i dun actually recall.

13:08:52 cazalla: that usually means yes in my experience

13:09:02 cazalla: my missus tries the same shit.. oh i can't remember

13:09:18 chetty: hahah well its kaufland X3

13:09:39 cazalla: pls suck my dick costco and get the fuck out of my country with your made in china shit http://imgur.com/GgNi88n,twFcl5s,ABxl80G,BAl6CMj,xl80E2E

13:09:40 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/199i7Mj )

13:10:12 mircea_popescu: chetty i imagine so.

13:10:32 mircea_popescu: cazalla omfg what is this, the sin of going into places ?

13:11:00 mircea_popescu: i don't recall if i ever had macadamia oil or not, either.

13:11:11 mircea_popescu: i guess i'll have to try this now.

13:11:13 cazalla: it's good shit

13:14:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16941 @ 0.00030091 = 5.0977 BTC [-]

13:16:23 cazalla: the nuts are very creamy, and the oil is great for frying anything that is crumbed, like chicken

13:18:54 mircea_popescu: i don't do so much frying myself.

13:21:17 cazalla: fair enough, but i fry the fuck out of everything

13:22:11 cazalla: well not reary but i am partial to crumbed chicken fried the fuck out

13:22:54 Adlai: !up cazalla

13:32:59 danielpbarron: !up bhcoins this is you? -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=794678.msg8948683#msg8948683

13:33:00 assbot: [CLOSED] bhCoins Serie 3 0.1 BTC denominated physical Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/199jI4K )

13:33:22 chetty: highway robbery I tell ya, spen 83 pesos at the grocery

13:34:04 danielpbarron: most of my expenses are for food

13:36:20 mircea_popescu: "Why are the coins dated 2013 :/ because we designed and minted them last year, but we could assemble them last month.."

13:36:23 mircea_popescu: how do you assemble coins ?!

13:36:36 danielpbarron: there's a newer model i just found, but w/e

13:39:45 danielpbarron: "If you want to resell them, either include a hologram so that the buyer can generate a new private key or just don't assemble the coin." << what on earth is the point then?

13:39:52 cazalla: anyway going to bed, but i request la serenissima bequeath me the state of Tasmania so as to use it to grow the best shit

13:41:09 mircea_popescu: enjoy c man

13:59:45 danielpbarron: !up Bagels7

14:01:00 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060168 <<< president is french. it's shit though. would probably even be legal in uslandia

14:01:00 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 13:02:49; mircea_popescu: a whole range of french (president ?) and italian cheeses ?

14:02:42 mircea_popescu: davout sorta minimum level of camembert i can live with.

14:02:53 davout: fair enough

14:02:57 mircea_popescu: but im going to forcefeed you "industria argentina" camembert just to make this point.

14:03:46 davout: tbh, what's the most important with camembert, is to not eat too early when it's not "made"

14:03:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122814 @ 0.00030152 = 37.0309 BTC [+] {2}

14:03:59 davout: obviously it doesn't go in the fridge either

14:04:31 mats: danielpbarron: do a public service and tell those people holos can be beaten

14:04:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98686 @ 0.00029524 = 29.1361 BTC [-] {2}

14:07:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00030622 = 4.9914 BTC [+]

14:08:10 danielpbarron: it doesn't sound like anyone is using those things for more than a novelty; they aren't even funding the things for fear of depreciating value

14:09:14 mircea_popescu: meanwhile over at decadence camp, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhxrh6pprt1qbujxso1_1280.jpg

14:09:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/199mZB0 )

14:09:35 mircea_popescu: davout also helps if it's not made out of tyres.

14:17:36 pete_dushenski: top o' the mornin' !

14:18:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00029327 = 22.2299 BTC [-] {2}

14:20:59 pete_dushenski: cazalla: not even sure why pete would waste his time coming to this shit hole << being a tourist =! being a resident

14:21:55 pete_dushenski: despite the crazy minimum wage and resulting cost of food, australia is perfectly enjoyable place to visit for a few weeks.

14:22:48 pete_dushenski: beautiful architecture, wildlife galore

14:24:05 pete_dushenski: by the standards of la serenissima, most everywhere is full of stupidheads derping about with delusions of self-importance

14:24:49 pete_dushenski: australia isn't markedly worse than canada and in many ways preferable.

14:25:45 pete_dushenski: cazalla: your opa could've come here just as well and you wouldn't have been necessarily better off

14:26:04 pete_dushenski: yet by the measures of most of the world, this is still 'the land of milk and honey'

14:27:08 pete_dushenski: if one ends up here, today, wherever they're from was a successful stepping stone.

14:27:28 pete_dushenski: and couldn't have been otherwise.

14:34:12 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/20/the-straw-that-broke-twitters-back/

14:34:13 assbot: The straw that broke Twitter’s back. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/199pdAs )

14:34:57 thestringpuller: oh a pete_dushenski

14:35:05 *: thestringpuller refreshes contravex

14:35:11 pete_dushenski: heya dude

14:35:20 pete_dushenski: ^tis right there for ya

14:35:36 pete_dushenski: me, saying sayonara to social media

14:36:02 *: kakobrekla just returned from his fiat bank - what a terrible experience.

14:36:26 pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: ikr!

14:36:59 pete_dushenski: went with a friend who wanted 6 months of statements from her pc

14:37:12 pete_dushenski: because of course, they weren't available online

14:37:52 mircea_popescu: !up FrankU

14:38:04 pete_dushenski: so at the branch, they charge her $xx and then tell her that the statements can't be printed out then and there and have to go to another city for review, then they'll be shipped to the branch, then she'll have to come back and pick them up

14:38:22 pete_dushenski: my jaw hit the floor.

14:38:45 pete_dushenski: this, for some simple bank statements

14:39:00 kakobrekla: sounds about right.

14:39:33 mircea_popescu: scam.

14:39:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15845 @ 0.00030622 = 4.8521 BTC [+]

14:40:27 pete_dushenski: seriously, reminded me of the spa lady health club scam

14:40:32 mircea_popescu: dude, check it out, pete_dushenski was punished by the holy redditard empire for his murdersome streak.

14:40:46 mircea_popescu: either that or just got bored.

14:41:05 pete_dushenski: i like the sound of 'murderous streak'

14:41:39 pete_dushenski: *murdersome

14:41:57 pete_dushenski: pass some of dat murder

14:42:41 pete_dushenski: o hey nasdaq 5k. again.

14:43:07 mircea_popescu: "with stun guns on mounted on their heads"

14:44:25 pete_dushenski: ef.

14:45:01 pete_dushenski: fixed. ty!

14:45:55 mats: S&P is quite high too...

14:45:56 mircea_popescu: time to meet teh parents http://40.media.tumblr.com/b3b451526b36c461256b93216a70a44b/tumblr_mhpfg9rNk21rln4dzo1_1280.jpg

14:45:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/199q6ZP )

14:46:59 mats: must be the cheap petrol.

14:50:57 danielpbarron: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150320130957

14:50:57 assbot: OpenSSH 6.8 Released ... ( http://bit.ly/1OdTkat )

14:51:06 danielpbarron: Add FingerprintHash option to ssh(1) and sshd(8), and equivalent command-line flags to the other tools to control algorithm used for key fingerprints. The default changes from MD5 to SHA256 and format from hex to base64.

14:51:54 pete_dushenski: also fixed footnote ii in that last one. i'm asleep at the wheel here.

14:53:32 danielpbarron: with you off twitter, that puts me in the #2 spot for WoT user with most followers?

14:54:14 pete_dushenski: behind... ?

14:54:33 danielpbarron: !gettrust assbot copumpkin

14:54:34 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user copumpkin: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/copumpkin | http://w.b-a.link/user/copumpkin

14:54:37 pete_dushenski: "A bug bounty hunter, Laxman Muthiyah, discovered a critical flaw in the Facebook Photo Sync feature and Facebook API that could allow any third-party app to access your personal photos from the hidden Facebook Photo Sync album." << lel that sm.

14:55:30 pete_dushenski: ah https://twitter.com/copumpkin

14:55:32 assbot: Dan P (@copumpkin) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoMZAM )

14:55:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.00029928 = 16.0414 BTC [-]

14:55:56 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: of the regulars though, you're #1 !

14:56:01 danielpbarron: ah wait, ageis also has more :<

14:56:25 danielpbarron: and jyap

14:56:26 pete_dushenski: quality, not quantity, is the name of the game.

14:56:42 pete_dushenski: remove thee from the bezzle-mindedness

14:57:00 PeterL: what percentage of your followers are people you have never actually met in person?

14:57:28 danielpbarron: is this some "irc != irl" thing?

14:57:34 danielpbarron: who cares if i've met them?

14:57:56 PeterL: have you met everyone on irc?

14:58:04 PeterL: I was just curious?

14:58:08 danielpbarron: no

14:58:26 danielpbarron: i've met kyuupichan

14:58:29 danielpbarron: that's it

14:59:39 PeterL: my facebook is 100% people I know irl, my twitter is more like 5%

14:59:59 danielpbarron: that is, he's the one guy in here that i didn't know outside of b-a and have met him in person

15:00:39 danielpbarron: i think my twitter followers are higher quality than my facebook friends

15:00:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00028923 = 13.3335 BTC [-] {4}

15:01:39 danielpbarron: this is real life. right in here.

15:01:54 danielpbarron: this is more real than most of the stuff people say "in person"

15:07:03 mod6: ya, irc has no substitutes

15:08:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43550 @ 0.000294 = 12.8037 BTC [+]

15:19:56 thestringpuller: lol without IRC this would be a BBS (in som alternate reality)

15:20:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48700 @ 0.00029447 = 14.3407 BTC [+]

15:29:17 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron> this is more real than most of the stuff people say "in person" << well yeah but that's more a function of how boring most people are.

15:34:27 thestringpuller: http://imgur.com/VB7m7nq << >:(

15:34:35 bitstein: So, guys, how's the weather?

15:34:50 PeterL: springy

15:38:30 pete_dushenski: bitstein: spring yesterday, snow dump today, cake tomorrow

15:39:57 bitstein: pete_dushenski: birthday?

15:40:12 pete_dushenski: nah, soviet joke lol

15:40:48 chetty: cake is always tomorrow

15:40:59 PeterL: the cake is a lie

15:41:25 pete_dushenski: nah, tomorrow is a lie

15:41:52 bitstein: https://i.imgur.com/4tbzb7a.jpg

15:41:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FKNzNU )

15:42:05 pete_dushenski: if only tomorrow could be today, then cake !

15:42:15 pete_dushenski: bitstein: ayup

16:11:36 Naphex: o/

16:11:43 Naphex: mircea_popescu: http://www.romania-insider.com/mcoin/144725/ looks like you got cited :D

16:11:45 assbot: Romanian sells house for 55,000 Mcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ExDTSJ )

16:14:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00030019 = 11.8125 BTC [+]

16:15:25 fluffypony: wtf is an Mcoi

16:15:28 fluffypony: *Mcoin

16:15:47 Naphex: some MLM Ponzi scheme that has been hypeing in Romania lately

16:16:01 Naphex: http://fraudsters.com/2015/catre-ministerul-afacerilor-interne-in-atentia-d-lor-gheorghe-nicolae-petre-toba-bondar-marin-si-d-nei-laura-codru%C8%9Ba-kovesi-dvs-stiati-ca-angajatii-dvs-se-ocupa-cu-frauda-pe-internet/

16:16:02 assbot: Catre Ministerul Afacerilor Interne. In atentia d-lor Gheorghe Nicolae, Petre Toba, Bondar Marin si d-nei Laura Codruța Kövesi : Dvs stiati ca angajatii dvs se ocupa cu frauda pe Internet ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7h1A )

16:19:10 trinque: sorry davout, I changed the syntax on you

16:19:15 trinque: in teh logs

16:19:50 trinque: !up deedbot-

16:19:54 trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3QD6MT5.txt

16:19:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7ody )

16:19:55 deedbot-: accepted: 1

16:19:57 trinque: donk

16:20:20 trinque: shall go out at the hour

16:33:31 mats: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/nyregion/mark-strand-80-dies-pulitzer-winning-poet-laureate.html

16:33:34 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7Zfr )

16:36:07 trinque: mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059635 << which is the manual ? << tried geting rid of that colon by making the bot parse all messages for commands, not just highlights, and making deedbot- the command. didn't work, seems it should. I'm going to poke tenyks' author today to find out what's smart

16:36:07 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 05:46:33; trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual

16:37:21 trinque: punkman1: can I get "deedbot" from ya?

16:50:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00028838 = 12.1985 BTC [-] {2}

16:53:26 []bot: Bet placed: 9.36 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 113.22817126 BTC. Current weight: 87,607.

16:57:00 trinque: !up deedbot-

16:57:04 trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

16:57:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1LS7 )

16:57:07 deedbot-: imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF

16:57:12 trinque: mircea_popescu: ^

17:16:30 trinque: davout: http://deedbot.org/348443-15Fjyuen5G7eic5JJfQJjj133kLtcbcxV1.txt

17:16:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19FapKR )

17:17:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92065 @ 0.00028819 = 26.5322 BTC [-]

17:20:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41698 @ 0.00028819 = 12.0169 BTC [-]

17:29:20 mike_c: kakobrekla: that price! http://query.bitcoin-assets.com/?data=trades&since_id=121698

17:29:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19Fb6Ec )

17:29:55 mats: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo07.pdf new PoC||GTFO

17:30:02 kakobrekla: mike_c "type":"21"

17:30:26 mike_c: oh. yeah.

17:30:48 mike_c: odd that never broke my shit before.

17:31:03 mike_c: anyways, thanks. my fault.

17:31:15 kakobrekla: it was broken for a long time

17:32:01 kakobrekla: recently got fixed and now causing trouble down the line

17:33:28 mike_c: it's odd, because i explictly skip anything not in [0, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15]

17:33:38 mike_c: or at least, it's supposed to.

17:33:44 kakobrekla: dunno

17:33:57 mike_c: dunno what? what the hell is wrong with my code??

17:34:00 kakobrekla: mhm

17:43:18 mike_c: ;;calc 0.0028819 / (0.00000029 * 12)

17:43:18 gribble: 828.132183908

17:43:29 mike_c: ;;calc 0.00028819 / (0.00000029 * 12)

17:43:29 gribble: 82.8132183908

17:53:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 300 @ 0.00364196 = 1.0926 BTC [-] {6}

17:56:45 mats: ramtin-amin.fr/#tristar looks like Apple Lightning has been broken

18:05:05 mats: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coflynn/chipwhisperer-lite-a-new-era-of-hardware-security

18:05:06 assbot: ChipWhisperer-Lite: A New Era of Hardware Security Research by Colin O'Flynn — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEYXVi )

18:11:41 chetty: !up ascii_field

18:12:18 ascii_field: http://dpaste.com/2NEWGPY.txt << from mats's link (pure gold)

18:12:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZgPO )

18:12:29 ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo07.pdf << mega-talmud of lulz

18:12:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZgQ1 )

18:12:33 ascii_field: recommended to all

18:12:44 ascii_field: if you don't have a machine that can show 'pdf', find one just for this occasion.

18:13:05 ascii_field: mats: very neat.

18:15:03 ascii_field: http://dpaste.com/0QFRVZR << missed a page earlier

18:15:04 assbot: dpaste: 0QFRVZR: Cyber Criminal’s Song ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZman )

18:17:13 trinque: ehehe hilarious

18:17:33 chetty: hahahah someone was a zork fan;You happen to see a note on the ground, a splotchy Hilbert curve napkin sketch followed by a handwritten

18:17:33 chetty: table of hexadecimal numbers with uncertain names scrawled nearby.

18:17:56 ascii_field: Aha.

18:18:02 ascii_field: GO NORTH

18:18:24 mats: lol

18:19:44 danielpbarron: the "print instructions" assume you're on a debian variant (most likely for ubuntu users)

18:20:17 ascii_field: only in that 'apt-get'

18:20:20 danielpbarron: i guess if you're not on something debian you probably know how to convert that string into something useable

18:20:31 ascii_field: i normally just read that as a shorthand for 'install on your box...'

18:21:00 danielpbarron: ubuntu user would be like "wtf is emerge ??"

18:22:11 fluffypony: pacman -S

18:26:38 ascii_field: 'He passed away in 2008, a paragon of sticking to just the prescribed amount of murderous blood-thirstiness at any given time, a true knight of the Party Line -- and, if there is ever a Hell, doubtlessly sticking Hell's engineers with the problem of how to reward such a sterling life achievement of toeing it ever so precisely. There are many shitty jobs in this world and the one beyond, but, believe in Hell or not, that

18:26:38 ascii_field: one takes the cake.'

18:26:43 *: ascii_field picks self up off the floor

18:27:15 ascii_field: that thing contains the single best 'lysenko for dummiez' i've ever seen in english

18:27:26 ascii_field: mircea_popescu ^ consider for use on n00bz

18:28:16 *: ascii_field as an amateur scholar of crackpottery and malignant pseudoscience, owns the complete works of mr lysenko

18:30:36 ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo << 0-7

18:30:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZVRs )

18:33:18 trinque: ascii_field: a quick google suggest this guy was off his rocker

18:33:47 ascii_field: trinque: not any more so than, say, a pope.

18:33:53 trinque: heh

18:34:59 trinque: the guy got dissent against lamarckism outlawed?

18:35:06 ascii_field: aha.

18:35:09 trinque: that's how you secure your legacy right there

18:49:20 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:49:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53796 @ 0.0002863 = 15.4018 BTC [-] {2}

18:49:47 ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo05.pdf << p. 27 mega-l0l, demonstration of RDRAND-as-hypothetical-backdoor on x86

18:49:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BF0I4U )

18:50:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28978 @ 0.00028439 = 8.2411 BTC [-] {2}

18:59:23 ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo04.pdf << p. 22: 'Lenticrypt: a Provably Plausibly Deniable Cryptosystem; or, This Picture of Cats is Also a Picture of Dogs'

18:59:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeKycz )

18:59:42 *: ascii_field has not yet read it but, the title alone, l0l

19:02:14 felipelalli: My dear gang noise, did you guys see THIS: http://blog.btcjam.com/2015/03/19/btcjam-introduces-risk-based-pricing-interest-rates-set-automatically-by-credit-score/ ?

19:02:15 assbot: BTCJam Introduces Risk Based Pricing (Interest Rates Set Automatically by Credit Score) | BTCJam Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeLayK )

19:02:27 felipelalli: I'm crying here. :'( The simply just killed the BTCJam.

19:02:36 felipelalli: &They

19:02:37 gribble: Error: "They" is not a valid command.

19:02:43 felipelalli: *They

19:03:25 felipelalli: Anyone can write about this on qntra.net? They just eliminate one of the best features of BTCJam.

19:04:02 danielpbarron: felipelalli> My dear gang noise, did you guys see THIS << ya they sent me an email for some reason

19:05:03 danielpbarron: to be fair, things like btcjam are already dead; this is more like shooting the zombie in the head so that it stops trying to feast on brains

19:08:58 ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo03.pdf << article on pg. 5 about 'fits in head' - pure gold

19:09:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeMIZG )

19:09:14 ascii_field: ('greybeard's luck')

19:11:17 felipelalli: danielpbarron: :'(

19:11:19 felipelalli: but really

19:11:30 felipelalli: I'm so sad and so so so so fucking crazy with this.

19:11:41 felipelalli: R.I.P. BTCJam. It was a nice service!!

19:11:53 danielpbarron: wait.. you were serious?

19:12:04 felipelalli: why not?

19:12:13 danielpbarron: did you lend on it or borrow?

19:12:16 felipelalli: both

19:12:26 *: danielpbarron slaps felipelalli around a bit with a large default

19:12:43 felipelalli: why do you think services like BTCJam are already dead?

19:12:56 felipelalli: They are getting worse, but dead just with this decision.

19:13:15 danielpbarron: they aren't in the WoT

19:13:30 felipelalli: At least you can associate OTC in that.

19:13:41 felipelalli: I know their reputation system is a crap.

19:13:49 felipelalli: But it is a nice and useful service.

19:14:02 felipelalli: The ugly true is that we have no options.

19:14:18 felipelalli: That's why it is good. Because we don't have better options.

19:14:27 danielpbarron: but you .. do!

19:14:30 danielpbarron: in here

19:14:34 felipelalli: But now I have ZERO option.

19:14:48 danielpbarron: that's because you had ZERO ideas worth investing in

19:15:06 ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo03.pdf << pg. 18: demonstration that intel -could- have diddled RDRAND instruction in such a way as to undetectably manipulate linux rng in spite of xor lemma

19:15:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeO3iV )

19:16:15 trinque: ascii_field: is it possible to use random data from multiple sources that are diddled, but by different manufacturers, and get usable random data?

19:16:25 ascii_field: trinque: read the linked piece

19:16:28 trinque: k

19:16:30 felipelalli: danielpbarron: I'm sad. They killed a service that I was using for years. It isn't that good, but...

19:17:02 ascii_field: trinque: spoiler: recall that the XORing also happens on same cpu

19:17:06 danielpbarron: and people were using piratat40's "service" for a while too

19:17:12 ascii_field: and therefore manipulable.

19:17:22 ascii_field: see also last week's thread re: specificity of diddlage

19:17:37 felipelalli: danielpbarron: but do you think BTCJam was a crap from the start to end?

19:17:42 danielpbarron: yes

19:17:54 felipelalli: danielpbarron: how do you lend money?

19:18:04 felipelalli: or borrow?

19:18:08 *: ascii_field wishes he could buy the entire issue of the 'pocorgfo' in hard cover archival paper

19:18:17 ascii_field: as it comes out, even

19:18:21 danielpbarron: i don't except with very close associates and even then i'd really rather not

19:18:44 felipelalli: danielpbarron: so, you are not the target, that's why you are not worried.

19:18:45 danielpbarron: ;;later tell nubbins` ^ job opportunity

19:18:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:19:38 danielpbarron: felipelalli, get more WoT connections in here and maybe you can borrow money

19:19:49 ascii_field: why would anyone want to borrow btc ?

19:20:01 danielpbarron: that's what I'd like to know

19:20:10 ascii_field: if you can reliably turn x btc into kx for some nonzero positive k,

19:20:13 danielpbarron: i know a guy (Birdman) who borrows it to play poker

19:20:22 danielpbarron: !up ascii_field

19:20:25 ascii_field: then you don't need to borrow, just start with epsilon

19:20:31 ascii_field: and end up with as many as you want

19:20:41 danielpbarron: well he always loses it

19:20:50 danielpbarron: that's why he always needs to borrow it again

19:20:56 trinque: that's uh, not borrowing

19:21:04 ascii_field: and someone, knowing this, wants to lend ?

19:21:16 felipelalli: danielpbarron ascii_field many reasons, like arbitrage for example. But you can borrow linked to USD or BRL.

19:21:41 danielpbarron: felipelalli, like what ascii said, if that were profitable you should already have a stash with which to work

19:22:22 felipelalli: that what exactly? Borrow?

19:23:04 ascii_field: felipelalli: linked to usd << can go borrow usd right now, trivially

19:23:04 danielpbarron: if you have some arbitrage opportunity, and it's worked in the past, you should have bitcoin from last time to make it work again this time.. so why the need to borrow?

19:23:07 ascii_field: as many as you like

19:23:21 felipelalli: danielpbarron: but and in the first time?

19:23:40 danielpbarron: well you seem to be well past a first time.?

19:24:18 danielpbarron: and yeah, go borrow fiat, buy bitcoin, make money, sell some bitcoin, repay loan

19:24:34 felipelalli: borrow fiat where?

19:24:39 felipelalli: in the bank?

19:24:47 danielpbarron: idk, i have credit cards

19:24:56 ascii_field: felipelalli: friendly local mafia

19:24:57 danielpbarron: every week i'm getting new offers

19:25:09 danielpbarron: i have a stack of those prepaid return envelopes

19:25:13 danielpbarron: :D

19:25:24 felipelalli: Depends on situation. For example: I had to spend some unforeseen money and I didn't want to climb a mountain to get my bitcoins, so I got a loan with a very low interest rate.

19:26:00 felipelalli: Yes, I store my bitcoin in a coordinate.

19:26:02 danielpbarron: it's so risky borrowing bitcoin; it's ruined lives

19:26:13 felipelalli: danielpbarron: it is linked with USD :)

19:26:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26869 @ 0.00028369 = 7.6225 BTC [-]

19:26:21 danielpbarron: i really doubt your secret mountain wallet is as secure as you imagine

19:26:22 felipelalli: the bitcoin is just the mean.

19:26:42 felipelalli: danielpbarron: well, I have some backups.

19:26:57 felipelalli: danielpbarron: but I am a geocaching player and yes, it is very secure.

19:27:13 danielpbarron: i don't doubt your physical hiding abilities

19:28:03 mats: rofl

19:28:08 danielpbarron: i doubt 1) your entropy generating abilities 2) your not telling a secret when a hot iron is inserted into your body abilities

19:28:16 felipelalli: danielpbarron: I have to go now! :) I'll write an article about this bad move of BTCJam soon. Thank you.

19:29:03 felipelalli: danielpbarron: 1) well, you will never know. 2) don't put all your eggs in the same basket.

19:31:32 ascii_field: https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo02.pdf << p. 3 article, 'on importance of tools' << pure gold

19:31:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeS0o0 )

19:33:14 danielpbarron: oh btw i got my ADA reference manual; things quite nice. it's from a public library and it looks as though nobody ever checked it out

19:34:32 danielpbarron: someone pointed out to me that if i wasn't already a terrorist suspect, buying the reference manual to the language for airplanes isn't going to help that image

19:34:55 danielpbarron: !up Bagels7

19:34:58 trinque: danielpbarron: order a nodejs book and throw them off

19:35:24 ascii_field: order 'anarchist's cookbook', get on the 'harmless idiots' list

19:36:46 trinque: well, that wasn't the right keybinding

19:39:33 Adlai: ascii_field: lies, there is no whitelist

19:39:48 ascii_field: brownlist

19:39:58 trinque: I'll go out on a limb and say they're not rounding up people for derping on IRC

19:40:10 trinque: as much as that would make one the star of one's own action movie

19:40:39 ascii_field: with enough effort, can get rounded up for derping with goose quill pen on parchment

19:41:39 chetty: <trinque> I'll go out on a limb and say they're not rounding up people for derping on IRC//yet

19:44:25 trinque: chetty: maybe, years can make the inconceivable inevitable

19:45:52 trinque: seems like you have to go directly after them pretty hard before they kill you

19:45:59 trinque: not... buy an ada book

19:46:35 trinque: michael hastings had what seems to me a long life by most measures of govt oppression

19:46:36 ascii_field: the 'honest man hanged by six words he wrote' is not hanged 1/6th of the way by each

19:47:04 ascii_field: but trinque's observation brings to mind one of mine

19:47:07 trinque: ascii_field: well I think I'm echoing a sentiment I've heard from you; I wont be grabbing my rifle any time soon

19:47:15 trinque: just waiting

19:47:18 trinque: and educating myself

19:47:25 ascii_field: every day when i wake up still alive, i know that i have not yet achieved anything.

19:47:32 trinque: hah! that's about right

19:48:46 kakobrekla: eh s.nsa is still young

19:49:32 danielpbarron: !up mariorz

19:49:58 jurov: s.nsa has grandiose achievements (planned)

19:50:09 danielpbarron: !up yrashk

19:50:18 jurov: they'd make for shiny eulogy

19:50:49 trinque: !up ascii_field

19:52:28 jurov: btw i don't get how would such data mining work.. someone would have to collect all the information first

19:53:04 jurov: and more importantly, before or after collection, query for certain books and irc channels

19:53:48 ascii_field: jurov: no, this is the naive picture

19:54:13 ascii_field: the way it works, when it works, is that moles actually take the trouble to read (or even provocateur...) in the forum

19:54:19 ascii_field: (whichever forum)

19:54:37 ascii_field: and slowly, meticulously form a picture of who gets the red carpet to the gasenwagen and when

19:56:06 jurov: i can see that, except for slowness or even meticulousness

19:56:50 mircea_popescu: mp whining in 2012 that there's no rifled bullets. commenter fixing it, today : http://fraudsters.com/2012/o-idee-practica/#comment-113197

19:56:51 assbot: O idee practica ✭ pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeWFpU )

19:56:54 mircea_popescu: amd hi all!

19:57:30 jurov: hello

19:57:44 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: rifled projectiles for smoothbore barrels are sold in every hunting shop in usa

19:57:57 mircea_popescu: yeah well...

19:58:04 mircea_popescu: romanian ok ? easier audience.

19:58:47 ascii_field: jurov: normally you can tell who are the 'basic' shills by noting their assumptions (of their marks being dumb as shit) - see, e.g., mr moarspam: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2015#1014388

19:58:47 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 03:30:16; asciilifeform: also claimed to be working on a 'military' path to sovereign moldbuggistan, which screams 'provocateur'

19:59:55 mircea_popescu: course that may just select for dumb willful people.

20:00:20 ascii_field: zap the predators, zap their prey - we don't need either for anything

20:00:27 mircea_popescu: mmm

20:00:39 mircea_popescu: their prey is usually someone's mom.

20:00:47 mircea_popescu: take BingoBoingo's earlier drunken rageorgy.

20:00:55 ascii_field: not speaking of generic sp4mz0rz here

20:00:58 ascii_field: but of provocateurs

20:01:12 mircea_popescu: not sure that resolves it.

20:01:19 ascii_field: like the one in linked thread

20:02:27 mircea_popescu: naphex ahahaha romania-insider, you should see that thing o gawd.

20:02:36 mircea_popescu: best english is lulzy english.

20:02:49 mircea_popescu: ascii_field aite working my way there,

20:03:21 []bot: Bet created: "BTC to top $500 before June 29th" http://bitbet.us/bet/1130/

20:03:32 trinque: anybody know punkman's status? wanted to get the bot squared away with a proper nick, then get that autovoiced

20:03:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060348 << sweet.

20:03:44 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 16:57:04; trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt

20:03:48 trinque: if I can't get deedbot, I'll just do it with the dash

20:04:00 mircea_popescu: ;;seen punkman1

20:04:01 gribble: punkman1 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 11 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <punkman1> command line deed grabber: curl -s http://deeds.bitcoinyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=</text)" | base64 -d | sha256sum

20:04:05 mircea_popescu: ;;seen punkman

20:04:06 gribble: punkman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 58 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <punkman> https://twitter.com/neweraesthetics/status/574869026817601536

20:04:11 mircea_popescu: punkman yo

20:04:14 mircea_popescu: hm.

20:04:29 mircea_popescu: !up Mrstickball

20:05:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060364 << lol win

20:05:29 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 17:32:01; kakobrekla: recently got fixed and now causing trouble down the line

20:08:15 mircea_popescu: felipelalli: My dear gang noise, << new one.

20:08:34 mircea_popescu: anyway, is btcjam just about cooked up enough to go belly up or does it still have thread to survive this year ?

20:09:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060428 << i dunno that anyone ever took them seriously.

20:09:02 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:03:25; felipelalli: Anyone can write about this on qntra.net? They just eliminate one of the best features of BTCJam.

20:10:42 brendafdez: I was searching the logs and couldn't find a way to sort by date ascending. Tried setting the start parameter to a value close to the total number of results, but it won't take values greater than 5000. :( Is there a way to do it?

20:10:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060448 o.O. See http://fraudsters.com/2015/btcjam-what-starts-as-a-scam-stays-a-scam/ ? or maybe https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-btcjam-peer-to-peer-bitcoin-lending.67541/page-21#post-1330880 ?

20:10:56 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:13:49; felipelalli: But it is a nice and useful service.

20:10:57 assbot: BTCJam : What starts as a scam stays a scam pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAelGZ )

20:11:00 mircea_popescu: but anyway.

20:11:25 mircea_popescu: brendafdez i thought search automatically sorts by time, descending ?

20:11:57 danielpbarron: brendafdez, beginning of public log -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-04-2013#1

20:11:57 assbot: Logged on 26-04-2013 00:01:30; pgp3: just looked at chart... shit... a couple hours can be an eternity in bitcoin land...

20:12:05 []bot: Bet placed: 2.5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before June 29th" http://bitbet.us/bet/1130/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.6 BTC. Current weight: 99,994.

20:12:42 brendafdez: I was trying to see the first messages in the chan by each user. If a user has say 50000 messages, I can't find a way to see the pages with the earliest 45000.

20:12:56 mircea_popescu: oh.

20:13:29 mircea_popescu: yeah i think you found a problem that can't actually be resolved with currently available tools.

20:13:35 danielpbarron: that's a feature! nobody wants their first words to be seen again :p

20:13:39 mircea_popescu: lol.

20:13:51 brendafdez: ok :P then it'll have to be done the hard way ;)

20:13:58 mircea_popescu: it is sort-of a feature, you only get to see the noobish beginnings of people newer than you.

20:14:09 kakobrekla: meanwhile http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from:brendafdez&start=180

20:14:10 assbot: 184 results for 'from:brendafdez' - #bitcoin-assets search

20:14:27 brendafdez: works only bc I have less than 5000

20:14:42 kakobrekla: a

20:15:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060482 << well yes but maybe it's a one shot thing.

20:15:02 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:20:31; ascii_field: and end up with as many as you want

20:16:16 *: trinque reads davout's latest deed.... gpg on win 3.1??

20:17:43 trinque: seems I'd sooner airgap a bsd or something, but if it works it works

20:18:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86800 @ 0.00028414 = 24.6634 BTC [+] {4}

20:18:13 trinque: is there some ancient processor which has an rng that works?

20:20:46 trinque: !up punkman1

20:21:16 trinque: deedbot- or notary? punkman1 has notary grouped atm

20:21:18 trinque: !up ascii_field

20:21:22 trinque: mircea_popescu: ^

20:22:02 trinque: eh it's already deedbot lots of places, probably best with the current nick

20:22:34 trinque: punkman1: lose your primary nick?

20:22:57 punkman: nope

20:22:59 ascii_field: trinque: rng in ic is a dead concept right off the bat

20:23:59 punkman: trinque, I think Ragnar had "deedbot" account, you can ask him

20:24:25 trinque: RagnarDanneskjol: ^ lemme know if you'd like the current deedbot to use that nick

20:27:38 punkman: http://xm42.com/

20:27:40 assbot: XM42™ | The Ion Productions Team ... ( http://bit.ly/1xmQnzv )

20:29:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060490 << no, not for him, and not for most of the third world.

20:29:02 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:23:04; ascii_field: felipelalli: linked to usd << can go borrow usd right now, trivially

20:29:26 mircea_popescu: if you imagine random guy in this world can borrow for any purpose you're nuts. all banks lend to nat'l government and us government only.

20:30:04 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: speaking from the chumpatronic jail here, just about any schmuck can get at least 5 digits of loansharkamatic without breaking a sweat

20:30:14 ascii_field: (at extortionate interest, but that's a separate question)

20:30:20 mircea_popescu: sure, but uniquely usian phenomenon.

20:30:32 mircea_popescu: AND this is for the great benefit of everyone else, because nobody is as poor as usians.

20:30:52 mircea_popescu: just, you know, everyone thinks they're speshul. but if i were a natl bank governor i wouldn't allow the derps to borrow either.

20:31:15 ascii_field: it is used as the real primary taxation mechanism

20:31:36 mircea_popescu: "get an education get a house get insurance get a wife" etc. sure.

20:31:40 mircea_popescu: but still.

20:31:41 ascii_field: schmuck wants to live in a house, owes $maxint, pays interest until dies

20:31:57 mircea_popescu: i think bynow college > housing, but yeah, same idea.

20:32:10 trinque: nobody under 30 expects to own a house anymore

20:32:22 mircea_popescu: that's cool, because nobody over 30 owns one, either.

20:32:22 trinque: rent forever, never pay off student debt

20:32:33 mircea_popescu: expectations coming to allign with reality is a measure of emerging sanity

20:32:55 trinque: of course, property taxes underneath all the other "it's not really yours"

20:33:21 trinque: or forfeiture

20:33:31 *: Adlai wouldn't be surprised if not only http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-03-2015#1039710 but also it contains a few houses too

20:33:31 assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 09:14:51; mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone in the wot ever actually starves.

20:33:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060503 << and here we go. nothing to do with money everything to do with household cashflow

20:33:48 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:25:24; felipelalli: Depends on situation. For example: I had to spend some unforeseen money and I didn't want to climb a mountain to get my bitcoins, so I got a loan with a very low interest rate.

20:33:49 Adlai: though the wot isn't exactly your average "nobody over 30"

20:33:49 trinque: I got paid to go to college and still left

20:34:32 ascii_field: i have a fairly solid expectation of starving eventually

20:34:37 ascii_field: so gotta disagree

20:34:44 ascii_field: (somehow didn't notice that thread..)

20:34:49 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i had an article about how all us citizens should have a solid expectation of being homeless eventually

20:34:54 mircea_popescu: it's just what the numbers say

20:35:28 mircea_popescu: (% of homeless people, life expectancy of homeless people, life expectancy of general population, -> over 50% or some shit)

20:35:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060505 << you familiar with the experience of that one guy who borrowed in 2011ish toi make a point, was still paying on it by 2013 ?

20:35:59 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:26:02; danielpbarron: it's so risky borrowing bitcoin; it's ruined lives

20:36:24 Adlai: mircea_popescu: how's that work, you're saying homeless people have longer life expectancy?

20:36:30 mircea_popescu: much shorter.

20:36:32 danielpbarron: probably; i've read the horror stories on the forum

20:36:42 Adlai: then why would most people have an expectation of being homeless eventually!?

20:37:08 Adlai: or is the theory that homelessness is a stage just before death

20:37:10 mircea_popescu: think of it in terms of particles : if muons live a second and meons an hour, and at all times 10% of particle population is muons, then what changes does a meon to turn into a muon during its lifetime ?

20:37:10 ascii_field: Adlai: in usa, if your income nulls out you turn into a bum generally within one business quarter

20:37:11 trinque: mircea_popescu: hm is this where the declining soviet population went? a different x% croaking on the street per year?

20:37:20 trinque: ascii_field: ^

20:37:25 mircea_popescu: pretty much.

20:37:48 mircea_popescu: s/changes/chances/

20:38:54 mircea_popescu: felipelalli if you write some apologetic pos about how toejam is an actual service it's not getting published.

20:39:26 mircea_popescu: "all the other rags" is the proper venue for that sorta nonsense.

20:39:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060523 << this lol

20:39:47 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:35:24; ascii_field: order 'anarchist's cookbook', get on the 'harmless idiots' list

20:40:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060529 << this actually hapepned ?

20:40:14 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:40:39; ascii_field: with enough effort, can get rounded up for derping with goose quill pen on parchment

20:40:37 ascii_field: first one that comes to mind is giordanno bruno

20:40:40 danielpbarron: according to the mythology taught in US public school, ya

20:40:49 ascii_field: but yes, complicated (TM)

20:41:04 mircea_popescu: last one not first one.

20:41:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.0002872 = 12.9384 BTC [+]

20:41:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060549 << someone's not been paying attention TO ALL THE ALLCAPS DEPRAGE. TEMPEST. WHOREFEST. MUCUS. ANTIETAM. ETCISAWORD.

20:41:53 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 19:53:04; jurov: and more importantly, before or after collection, query for certain books and irc channels

20:42:39 mircea_popescu: trinque hastings was born before me wtf. this is a long life now ?

20:42:55 mircea_popescu: s/before/after.

20:43:03 trinque: mircea_popescu: when imagining overt dictatorship I'd think so

20:43:25 mircea_popescu: i don't think any human population can be stable with lifetimes averages < 30.

20:43:38 mircea_popescu: the population simply collapses at that point. think cockroaches.

20:43:41 ascii_field: re: starving: at any rate, starvation is also what they do to 'problematic' folks in usa instead of shooting, typically

20:43:48 ascii_field: blackballing - traditional

20:43:51 trinque: oh we're fucked; I just don't expect that the men in black are coming for me because I said I like bitcoin

20:43:56 mircea_popescu: ascii_field problem is we're rich. this can no longer work for bitcoin.

20:44:03 ascii_field: mircea_popescu is rich

20:44:11 *: ascii_field is not remotely confusable for rich

20:44:26 mircea_popescu: the plan is of course to use it extensively on anyone related to usg, starting with the press, starting with idiot whores a la leah goodman and idiot venues a la newsweek

20:44:29 mircea_popescu: but it onl;y works that way

20:45:05 mircea_popescu: ascii_field not you and me per se. bitcoin, itself, going for 10bn dollah nao.

20:45:06 mircea_popescu: too far.

20:45:52 trinque: ascii_field's comment about having accomplished something put it better than I did

20:45:56 ascii_field: 'you'n me will burn in this here tank, but red army triumphs' (tm) /

20:45:56 ascii_field: ?

20:46:27 mircea_popescu: you were discussing economic warfare omg.

20:46:58 mircea_popescu: "you and i might not care or know, but someone in the capitalist club is financing the new lightbulb"

20:48:56 mircea_popescu: and the discussion of how this works - already, for that matter - is right above : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060676

20:48:56 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 20:38:54; mircea_popescu: felipelalli if you write some apologetic pos about how toejam is an actual service it's not getting published.

20:49:03 mircea_popescu: one day newsweek will need to borrow and find itself unable to.

20:49:08 mircea_popescu: and some other day, usg.

20:49:39 mircea_popescu: as you say, it's called blackballing.

20:50:02 ascii_field: yeah, but right now the who-whom is pointed the other way.

20:50:06 mircea_popescu: nope

20:50:10 mircea_popescu: it only works one way.

20:50:47 mircea_popescu: modern weapons yo. they only work in the hands of the proper people.

20:51:05 ascii_field: rly. so mykotronx is holding bake sales to build nsa crypto garbage, and s.nsa is baking diamond ternary ram ?

20:51:15 mircea_popescu: nope.

20:51:27 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I understand. Thank you.

20:51:29 mircea_popescu: but there's nothing anyone can do to prevent s.nsa from baking what it bakes

20:51:41 mircea_popescu: whereas mykotronx can stop tomorrow, and that tomorrow is coming.

20:51:50 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

20:51:54 ascii_field: 'It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.' (some american derpmeister in the '60s)

20:52:11 mircea_popescu: ascii_field compare, for it is informative, cisco's experience with bitbet's experience.

20:52:24 mircea_popescu: cisco was caught working with usg, lost 90% of sales in onequarter.

20:52:37 mircea_popescu: derp fucked up on bitbet, it turns out bitbet is not a consumer venue, sales doubled that quarter.

20:52:40 ascii_field: then we find out that it doesn't actually need sales for anything

20:52:50 mircea_popescu: this is what it is, and the most important dynamic since combustion engine.

20:52:56 mircea_popescu: of course it does.

20:53:01 ascii_field: it gets to carry on derping by order of the tsar-god

20:53:17 mircea_popescu: not in any sense useful, that.

20:53:31 trinque: tsar god can't declare things into existence

20:53:41 mircea_popescu: imagine your daughter fails exams, now can't go to school. so what, you make her a mini university out of cardboard, and while the other girls to go school

20:53:41 *: ascii_field recalls learning with alarm as a little boy that there was ever such a thing as a reichsmark. 'couldn't hitler simply order shit done?'

20:53:50 mircea_popescu: she derps with puppets in the foot tall "campus" ?

20:54:01 ascii_field: lol i live in that campus.

20:54:05 mircea_popescu: lol

20:54:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, i gtg, we shall continue this argument tomorrow

20:54:16 mircea_popescu: and day after,

20:54:23 mircea_popescu: and all days until the one day, because it seems our fate :D

20:54:34 ascii_field: lulzatronix.

21:05:08 nubbins`: *:ascii_field wishes he could buy the entire issue of the 'pocorgfo' in hard cover archival paper <<< judging by the second-page notes, you can

21:08:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00028308 = 6.1145 BTC [-]

21:10:47 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: Where can I find objective arguments against BTCJam? As a lending service and reputation system? And what are the alternatives for P2P lending or we don't have? They have 113,000 users, should they be ignored?

21:11:06 danielpbarron: oh speaking of things nubbins` can print; how about an official Qntra business card?

21:11:31 danielpbarron: felipelalli, the alternative is right in here

21:11:48 nubbins`: danielpbarron no doubt

21:11:54 nubbins`: silkscreened business cards are ++

21:12:28 danielpbarron: well i don't necessarily want to design one, but if that sounds like something the other qntra writers would want, I'd like a stack of them with my name on it if that's ok

21:12:40 nubbins`: felipelalli how many users does windows xp have?

21:12:44 nubbins`: should they be ignored? 8)

21:13:11 nubbins`: danielpbarron if you guys figure somethin out between yourselves, i can print a batch all at once to save on setup

21:14:10 danielpbarron: that's what i mean :D

21:14:21 nubbins`: we print them something like 36-up, so you could have w/e number of designs/names/etc you wanted

21:15:33 nubbins`: "Th is i s how t o c o n v e r t an i s s u e f o r d u pl e x p r i n t i n g ."

21:15:35 nubbins`: right on

21:16:45 nubbins`: asciilifeform these things look great

21:23:35 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:25:00 felipelalli: nubbins`: in other words, should they be ignored? :)

21:25:17 felipelalli: danielpbarron: Thank you! Next time I'll try it! :)

21:25:26 nubbins`: felipelalli you tell me 8)

21:25:32 nubbins`: point being that yes, many people can be wrong

21:25:55 nubbins`: asciilifeform you'd be looking at around $10-15 for a softcover / staple-bound issue of this sent to your door

21:26:22 nubbins`: depending on page count

21:26:50 felipelalli: nubbins`: but I would like to collect the cons arguments. I was using the service for a while and it was nice, except the reputation system. But yes, without a good reputation system, it is worthless. :/

21:27:08 nubbins`: sounds like "it is worthless" is a pretty big con.

21:27:08 ascii_field: nubbins`: which 'this'

21:27:13 ascii_field: nubbins`: the whole set ?

21:27:22 felipelalli: nubbins`: :) huge.

21:27:23 nubbins`: sorry, just grabbed a random issue

21:27:32 nubbins`: let me get a full page count here

21:27:40 nubbins`: issue 6 recommends printing it on ledger

21:29:00 felipelalli: I said to BTCJam CEO: "mircea said BTCJam is not even a service" he said "who is this?" and then tried to convince me "other people disagree with him"

21:32:48 felipelalli: I was trying to convince him that don't let the users choose the interest rate is not a good idea.

21:33:22 danielpbarron: well it's an obvious path for them to take considering the thing is a scam attractor

21:34:32 nubbins`: ascii_field say around a hundred bucks for issues 00-07, 8.5x11" footprint, staple-bound

21:34:44 ascii_field: staple bound ?

21:34:48 ascii_field: as in, iron staples ?

21:34:56 BingoBoingo: I have the most intense hangover

21:34:57 nubbins`: i'd have to check the type of metal

21:35:01 ascii_field: ugh

21:35:03 ascii_field: not booklike at all

21:35:04 nubbins`: almost certainly steel

21:35:14 nubbins`: hey, i can hand-sew, but you're not gonna like the price

21:35:39 felipelalli: he said they have a "learning machine" to determine the correct interest rate, but it is a joke don't let the free market decide its own rates.

21:36:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00028308 = 12.2574 BTC [-]

21:36:43 nubbins`: once you start sewing bindings, you commit to labour-intensive cover attachment

21:37:17 ascii_field: ah

21:37:28 ascii_field: it was worth a shot. thx for the phree quote, nubbins`

21:37:47 ascii_field: but i can laser print and perforate as well as the next guy.

21:37:51 nubbins`: nod

21:38:29 danielpbarron: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950

21:38:29 assbot: Gmane -- Re: stable Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Lp8K )

21:38:38 danielpbarron: point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.

21:38:44 nubbins`: it's only around $30 of materials

21:39:11 danielpbarron: Security people are often the black-and-white kind of people that I can't stand. I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.

21:39:23 nubbins`: truthfully it's the fact that all the setup work is being done for a single book

21:39:35 nubbins`: if you wanted, say, even a half-dozen copies, different story

21:39:41 ascii_field: nubbins`: yes, like circuit boards

21:40:20 ascii_field: nubbins`: i routinely use 'print on demand' houses when i feel like getting xxxx in dead tree, but the result is invariably just a little better than what i can do at home

21:40:35 ascii_field: not one can do 'lay flat' cover, for instance

21:40:53 ascii_field: (other than with perforator and spiral binding)

21:40:58 danielpbarron: i might buy one if there are enough people in the pool

21:41:01 nubbins`: you'd be surprised how tricky it is!

21:41:15 *: ascii_field has bound books by hand and is not even slightly surprised

21:41:22 nubbins`: heh. well, there y'go.

21:41:23 ascii_field: but fact remains, there is no automagickal machine for it

21:41:28 nubbins`: let me find some drool shots

21:41:29 ascii_field: like there is for the crappy bindings

21:42:38 ascii_field: danielpbarron: linus is wrong, but very few people seem to grasp the reason why

21:43:01 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/2C4E5GP,20B9ktJ,SEDrede,EPI6Pww,pxZ4arA

21:43:01 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXV9C1 )

21:43:19 ascii_field: !s malice incompetence

21:43:20 assbot: 21 results for 'malice incompetence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=malice+incompetence

21:43:29 nubbins`: 5th image shows the kind of corners a thousand-dollar book plough makes.

21:43:53 danielpbarron: did that 0.5.3 source ever become a book? maybe put that on the list of things I'd buy if enough people in pool

21:44:04 ascii_field: danielpbarron: it did not

21:44:13 nubbins`: danielpbarron it was shelved at the time

21:44:16 ascii_field: danielpbarron: because i'm not interested in reading crud

21:44:19 danielpbarron: basically anything ascii wants in book form, I would probably also want

21:44:26 nubbins`: until such point is reached that the code is worthy of bookifying

21:44:35 ascii_field: remember, b00kz only work if you... read'em

21:44:47 nubbins`: nobody wants to pay me to typeset a piece of shit for 20 hours 8)

21:45:02 ascii_field: nubbins`: what is a book plough ?

21:45:07 ascii_field: cutting press ?

21:45:14 danielpbarron: S.BOOK needs to be a thing maybe

21:45:23 nubbins`: cutting press sounds like a fair synonym

21:45:23 nubbins`: http://www.louet.nl/en/bookbinding-vertical-plough

21:45:24 assbot: Louët :: Vertical Plough ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Mpd5 )

21:45:30 cazalla: BingoBoingo, how much piss did you sink last night?

21:45:37 nubbins`: you can find youtube vidyas of same

21:45:43 ascii_field: most folks source, rather than sink, piss

21:46:04 ascii_field: nubbins`: betcha a laser would work

21:46:17 nubbins`: mayhap. but it'd singe the pages?

21:46:27 nubbins`: the edges this plough makes are as smooth as fucking /glass/.

21:46:28 cazalla: ascii_field, we do things different down under :)

21:47:27 ascii_field: nubbins`: surprisingly little burn if cut correctly

21:47:35 nubbins`: wild

21:47:36 ascii_field: but yes, they'll turn black

21:47:41 nubbins`: http://www.talasonline.com/

21:47:43 assbot: Talas || Professional Archival, Bookbinding, Conservation and Restoration Supplies ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXW0CQ )

21:47:47 nubbins`: ^ source of all things bookish

21:47:55 nubbins`: their print catalog is a particular joy

21:48:06 ascii_field: bookbinding is rather like music in a sense

21:48:07 nubbins`: harkens back to the first time i rcv'd a mouser catalog

21:48:16 nubbins`: oh, it's 100% an art

21:48:19 nubbins`: you can't teach it

21:48:37 nubbins`: ...or maybe i just can't be taught it 8)

21:48:38 ascii_field: in the sense that a typical artisan binder would probably react to my laser suggestion the same way my musical friends react to the suggestion of connecting my air compressor to the tuba

21:48:44 nubbins`: hahah.

21:48:55 nubbins`: hey, if it gets the job done.

21:49:29 nubbins`: although TBF an old-timey bookbinding setup is still an incredibly efficient way to work

21:50:02 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Half of a handle

21:50:41 nubbins`: i've done staple-binding, perfect binding, kettle stitch binding... eventually i'm gonna have to order some board and cloth

21:51:03 nubbins`: at which point things will come full-circle and i'll be silkscreening fabric for the covers of silkscreened books

21:51:09 ascii_field: reference bitcoin - board & leather.

21:51:13 cazalla: what's that.. a bit over 700ml.. damn that's a good effort BingoBoingo

21:51:38 BingoBoingo: Yeah, got myself good and pickled

21:52:58 nubbins`: ascii_field there's a woman in town who's been binding for years, has an ancient letterpress setup. i'd say she'd at least know where to point me for leather work

21:53:24 nubbins`: you opposed to sealskin?

21:54:03 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:54:11 ascii_field: sealskin works

21:54:44 nubbins`: fair warning, animal lovers may resent you for it

21:55:29 Adlai: needs a good dropcap, style of http://croquersamuse.voila.net/images/Web%20DSCN4701.jpg

21:55:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9NLEG )

21:55:39 nubbins`: seals are uh, "special" mammalia. they're cute enough that their harvesting produces outrage

21:55:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108500 @ 0.0002829 = 30.6947 BTC [-] {2}

21:56:02 nubbins`: Adlai religious texts are ++++ for those

21:56:15 Adlai: is bitcoin deserving of 'religion' status?

21:56:41 Adlai: being in the wot qualifies you for overseeing marriage in 2020 england, kind of stuff

21:56:49 ascii_field: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3238352932884994@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum

21:56:50 assbot: Re: Common Lisp vs Scheme - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9NSjK )

21:56:59 ascii_field: (last paragraph)

21:57:50 danielpbarron: nubbins`> fair warning, animal lovers may resent you for it << so.. win win :D

21:58:31 ascii_field: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3237396100556424@naggum.no.html

21:58:32 assbot: Re: Why I can't use Lisp. - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXXJIn )

21:59:42 ascii_field: ' I went to my local bookstore the other day. I wanted to give a beautifully bound Bible to a Christian friend of mine. Suddenly, I felt space around me warp and I was in USENET space. People from comp.lang.scheme offered me a beutifully bound Torah. People from comp.lang.dylan offered me a beautifully bound Koran. People from elsewhere on the Net offered me beautifully bound copies of The Lord of the Rings, Atlas

21:59:42 ascii_field: Shrugged, A New Kind of Science, and then other people chimed in with suggestions for Gray's Anatomy, The Chicago Manual of Style, and the 25-year anniversary edition of Gödel, Escher, Bach, all of them arguing that if I wanted the most important book, I would want their suggestions. I scremed, "Enough!", and space just as suddenly warped back to the bookstore and the very helpful young Muslim woman behind the counter

21:59:42 ascii_field: went to find a soft-leather-bound Bible with gold edges on the India paper, just like I had wanted and asked for, without unwelcome suggestions or anyone pretending to know better than me. It was so respectful I almost got religion, myself. '

22:02:28 *: danielpbarron has a stack of Bibles

22:02:48 ascii_field: danielpbarron: varying translations or just bindings ?

22:02:49 danielpbarron: one of the best places to get like-new Bibles is a used book store

22:02:55 danielpbarron: bindings mostly

22:03:00 danielpbarron: although i have a spanish one

22:03:05 danielpbarron: but mostly KJV

22:03:15 danielpbarron: i'd like more NKJV but they just aren't as widly produced

22:03:31 nubbins`: friend of mine has a ton of bibles

22:03:41 nubbins`: he's got one that's a reproduction of the 1st-edition gutenberg bible

22:03:46 danielpbarron: actually maybe nubbins` can help me there; I have this really nice pocket Bible with a zipper and real leather, but it's KJV and i'd like it in NKJV

22:03:47 nubbins`: SO MANY HUGE FUCK-UPS

22:04:12 danielpbarron: probably way out of my price range though

22:05:21 nubbins`: they don't sell nkjv bibles w/ zippers and leather?

22:05:23 danielpbarron: http://g.christianbook.com/dg/product/cbd/f400/146074.jpg << i think it's this one

22:05:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXYG3g )

22:05:29 danielpbarron: nope

22:05:33 danielpbarron: not as small as that ^ one

22:06:32 danielpbarron: that also has the "references" B.S. which I don't need -- I'd rather have the NKJV alternate transation footnotes

22:08:02 nubbins`: better ask News Corp, i guess

22:08:24 nubbins`: http://viewer.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/icv/page.php?book=arch._b_b.11&page=409

22:08:25 assbot: Arch. B b.11 - pages ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXZ9lZ )

22:08:42 nubbins`: ^ check out the missing paragraph break, top right

22:10:14 danielpbarron: i don't understand what i'm looking at

22:10:48 nubbins`: http://bav.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/field/image/gutenberg_203r_0.png

22:10:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9PRo6 )

22:10:55 nubbins`: that's what a paragraph break looks like

22:11:13 nubbins`: the red and blue ink were added afterward, by hand, and the printer left a blank space for them

22:11:25 nubbins`: nicer embellishments by the rubricators meant a higher selling price

22:11:44 nubbins`: in the previous example, no such space was left for the number and the painted letter

22:11:57 nubbins`: so various solutions were used for various copies

22:12:07 nubbins`: that one's a particularly uh, embellished example

22:14:05 nubbins`: "The "great majority of incunables did not issue from the press in a finished state ... hardly any incunable was considered 'finished' by its printer ...", suggesting that hand rubrication provided a sense of legitimacy to the efforts of early printers and their works."

22:14:53 danielpbarron: i don't need fancy thingys; just the whole NKJV text pocket sized with a zipper so the pages don't get messed up when i travel with it but w/e my KJV works well enough

22:16:19 jurov: btw, i was always curious what is one supposed to do with the bible all the time?

22:16:35 jurov: i was like okay, read it like any other book

22:17:12 danielpbarron: sometimes in arguments people are like "oh yeah where does it say that!?"

22:17:12 nubbins`: jurov i think it's used more as a reference manual than a novel

22:17:36 ascii_field: ... and there's also bibliomancy.

22:17:38 nubbins`: danielpbarron why not just get a similarly-sized NKJV and swap it out?

22:17:51 danielpbarron: i'm not sure one even exists

22:18:06 danielpbarron: i ordered what was described as "pocket sized" and it turned out to be much larger

22:18:45 nubbins`: http://www.amazon.com/Smallest-Bible-NKJV-Black-Closing/dp/0840784465

22:18:47 assbot: The Smallest Bible (NKJV, Black, Snap Flap Closing): Thomas Nelson: 9780840784469: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9QMF9 )

22:18:52 jurov: from experience i surmised it's used to find accurate projection for inner turmoil

22:18:59 danielpbarron: yeah i've seen that one

22:19:23 nubbins`: not quite a zipper

22:19:36 jurov: scratch that accurate. any projection.

22:20:22 nubbins`: jurov what else ya gonna do w/ turmoil

22:21:41 jurov: nubbins`: esoteric/new age stuff is more soothing

22:21:57 nubbins`: enya doesn't have any answers

22:22:25 jurov: i did not say anything about answers

22:23:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60900 @ 0.00028185 = 17.1647 BTC [-] {2}

22:24:06 jurov: they can be had by observation, not by projection anyway

22:24:35 jurov: !up ascii_field

22:24:54 *: nubbins` slow claps

22:26:04 nubbins`: next you'll tell me that taking anti-anxiety meds won't help resolve deeply-rooted personal issues 8)

22:26:33 jurov: no, obv only bible can do it

22:26:43 danielpbarron: ^ ++

22:27:45 trinque: https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/a4658f4eccc8a8e6338a8711c0291706/tumblr_mmbfq0apsW1r92643o1_500.jpg

22:27:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BY28Ln )

22:28:51 nubbins`: that is *not* how you make a secret compartment in a book.

22:30:27 trinque: nubbins`: along spine?

22:30:34 trinque: wasn't a proposal though :p

22:32:03 nubbins`: you're supposed to soak the entire book block in water+glue, then press it til it's dried, then cut the hole out

22:32:19 trinque: ah, makes sense

22:33:32 nubbins`: https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5215851/il_570xN.181912317.jpg

22:33:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SC8S )

22:33:48 BingoBoingo: http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150320/archer-heights/150-firefighters-battle-extra-alarm-fire-archer-heights-thursday

22:33:49 assbot: Huge Fire Breaks Out at Fire Extinguisher Factory in Archer Heights - Archer Heights - DNAinfo.com Chicago ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SExv )

22:33:55 nubbins`: or even better, http://www.instash.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Hollow-Book-Safe-With-Flask.jpg

22:33:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SCWr )

22:34:35 trinque: !up brendafdez

22:35:15 trinque: !up brendafdez

22:35:29 trinque: brendafdez: might want to make sure your client auths before join

22:35:54 trinque: dunno if ddos is a problem anymore, but it has happened

22:37:05 brendafdez: trinque yes i never bothered to configure it properly

22:37:37 brendafdez: it still is, at least as of last week i got ddosed when entering the chan

22:37:38 trinque: bothering has its benefits

22:37:47 brendafdez: indeed

22:38:51 trinque: !up mollison

22:42:06 nubbins`: man, this Roko's Basilisk is some straight-up bughouse stuff

22:44:02 trinque: nubbins`: ever read I have no Mouth and I Must Scream?

22:44:16 trinque: kind of reminds me of the AI in that

22:44:32 nubbins`: nope

22:44:37 nubbins`: i'll check it out

22:44:44 trinque: good story, not directly related

22:46:23 trinque: this idea that an exact duplicate of me *is* me seems absurd on its face

22:46:39 trinque: part of the basilisk thing

22:46:50 trinque: so you've got two hammers, and they're identical to the atom

22:47:03 trinque: their position is irrelevant to the question?

22:47:23 thestringpuller: brendafdez: what time is it in argentina rite meow

22:48:07 trinque: "Per Yudkowsky's conception of continuity of identity, copies of you in these branches should be considered to exist (and be you) — even though you cannot interact with them."

22:48:15 trinque: that sentence is so fucked

22:48:21 trinque: you cannot interact with you

22:48:23 trinque: but you are you

22:48:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00028106 = 8.8534 BTC [-]

22:49:00 trinque: I took a look at less wrong a while ago, and decided I could find an easier fetish

22:49:37 Adlai: it's like saying that in The Prestige, whatsisname is a mass-murderer... he's not, he just fork()s

22:49:39 brendafdez: utc -3 1949

22:50:29 trinque: Adlai: so? I'm experiencing subjectivity, whatever the fuck that is, *here* and definitely not *there*

22:50:43 trinque: that there are an infinite number of copies of me with the same arrangement of atoms does not change that fact

22:50:53 nubbins`: ^

22:50:56 trinque: and that thing is what I identify with, that my experience of being is right fucking here

22:51:23 jurov: someone go grow a finger from yudkowski's dna and tell him you have the rest of his clone in cellar

22:51:34 nubbins`: heh

22:51:55 fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/HAQJsaQ.jpg

22:51:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Vi6q )

22:53:00 nubbins`: lel

22:53:04 danielpbarron: the word you're looking for, trinque, is soul

22:53:13 trinque: danielpbarron: one way of putting it

22:53:53 trinque: and I think a better way than not considering it at all

22:55:36 trinque: danielpbarron: seems so many people try to argue themselves out of the obvious fact of their own being

22:55:43 trinque: dunno if I put that clearly at all

22:56:06 trinque: there's a mental defect where one considers himself to be an idea

22:56:21 danielpbarron: right

22:56:31 trinque: so if I change my thoughts about myself, I change?

22:56:33 trinque: no.

22:56:37 danielpbarron: you would necessarily die if chopped up into bits and uploaded

22:56:56 danielpbarron: the thing on the other side would think it is you, but it wouldn't be you

22:57:05 trinque: it is hard for me to draw conclusions about that scenario because uploaded is not at all defined

22:57:11 trinque: but yeah, I am *here*, *this*, and *now*

22:57:17 trinque: and no other imagined thing

22:57:28 trinque: and only to myself, I can't disclose that thing to anyone else

22:57:43 trinque: or to the religious, "himself before god" or something

22:58:01 danielpbarron: it's another tower of babel for man to think he can write a program to simulate his own brain better than it already is

22:58:09 trinque: hubris for sure

22:58:29 trinque: I like asciilifeform's mind amplifier concept

22:59:27 trinque: telescopes and so on, not some new created "being"

22:59:50 danielpbarron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltY41KxzXY << LOL

22:59:51 assbot: OpenBSD: most secure OS in the planet, the movie! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9WjLO )

23:00:47 trinque: peaches oh my lol

23:03:07 Adlai: trinque: right. the child process sees itself when dereferencing 'self'

23:03:47 *: Adlai just finished the alpha version of his twist on actors/csp

23:03:59 trinque: Adlai: dunno how far the programming metaphor goes; explain?

23:04:07 trinque: I enjoyed that movie

23:04:33 jurov: if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there?

23:04:54 *: trinque got really like, far out, man, one time and concluded that his language processing bits were not the only thing he is

23:05:24 trinque: I do not think there's a verbal definition of being

23:05:33 trinque: can't grab it with that

23:05:40 nubbins`: no, but do enough lsd and you'll find a non-verbal definition

23:05:45 trinque: nubbins`: right-o

23:05:52 nubbins`: dat ego death

23:06:11 nubbins`: fair warning, that's a one-way street 8)

23:06:33 Adlai: trinque: let's say harriezer has a 4d scanner, which he uses to capture the entire state of your brain, down to the atom. he then simulates twenty copies of this brain, each in its own simulated universe. even if you believe that there would now be 21 conscious trinques, the other twenty would be distinct from you. kinda like finding out about an identical twin that was separated from you at birth.

23:06:34 nubbins`: and much realer than rololol's basilisk

23:06:44 *: trinque recalls flopping around in front of a couch, saying to no one, "holy fuck, this is me!"

23:06:54 *: danielpbarron has done "enough lsd"

23:07:07 trinque: the flopping, lol

23:07:07 Adlai: in the prestige, the magician does pretty much exactly this with tesla's copy-teleport machine

23:07:24 nubbins`: Adlai not to mention that in the very next arbitrarily small slice of time, each of those 21 sets of atoms is now in a different state

23:07:29 trinque: Adlai: yeh agreed they are distinct

23:07:43 nubbins`: unless you're bringing quantum tunneling into it 8)

23:08:02 Adlai: nubbins`: actually, i'd maintain the same even if harriezer's simulators recreate exactly what happens to trinque's brain in real time

23:08:07 nubbins`: danielpbarron the concept of "enough" varies from person to person!

23:08:27 nubbins`: nod

23:08:36 Adlai: whether the identical programs on identical hardware ever read from /dev/random is another matter

23:08:50 Adlai: but either way, they're still separate instances

23:08:59 Adlai: even if their 'state' is identical

23:09:12 nubbins`: if you accept the multiverse as an axiom, there are already infinitely many copies of the universe in which the entirety of states that the atoms of your brain will ever arrange themselves in are precisely identical

23:09:52 nubbins`: Adlai they're fungible!

23:10:04 Adlai: yes. in such a multiverse, there are an infinite number of identical 'people', but each one thinks of itself as itself. the others are fungible, but the self is unique.

23:10:32 trinque: I'd just ask Yudkowski "how are all of you feeling today?"

23:10:35 trinque: he can't answer that

23:10:38 trinque: knows he's full of shit

23:10:41 trinque: it's barely worth considering

23:10:56 trinque: no subjective experience can travel across his abstact bridge

23:11:00 trinque: *abstract

23:12:08 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061016 << let's analogize that to http://www.legiontheory.com/

23:12:08 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:04:33; jurov: if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there?

23:12:09 assbot: Legion Theory ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Yb7c )

23:12:43 trinque: Adlai: dennett went down that road too as I recall

23:12:53 trinque: the "pandemonium model" of mind?

23:12:59 Adlai: yes, and feral neurons

23:13:07 Adlai: http://www.meltingasphalt.com/neurons-gone-wild/

23:13:08 assbot: Neurons Gone Wild | Melting Asphalt ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Yjne )

23:13:26 trinque: still in my experience there is a distinction between that which is thought and the singular experience of observing that

23:13:28 Adlai: sorry, dennett himself is at http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind

23:13:30 assbot: THE NORMAL WELL-TEMPERED MIND | Edge.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Ynn2 )

23:14:01 trinque: thoughts do seem to all compete for attention

23:14:08 trinque: attention seems like one thing

23:14:12 Adlai: you've never had a thought spring fully-formed into your mind ?

23:14:17 trinque: certainly

23:14:25 trinque: what you're calling "your mind" I'm calling attention

23:14:30 trinque: the observer

23:14:33 Adlai: sure

23:14:55 trinque: probably danielpbarron's soul

23:15:14 jurov: lol "we don't know what is a consciousness? let's say it is composed of many of itself"

23:15:24 trinque: jurov: heh!!!

23:15:47 Adlai: cf https://xkcd.com/1489/

23:15:48 assbot: xkcd: Fundamental Forces ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRP7rs )

23:16:03 Adlai: specifically, "Of these four forces, there's one we don't really understand." "Is it the weak force or the strong--" "It's gravity."

23:17:13 jurov: and where thoughts come from... brain is dreaming all the time, there are easy exercises to access this stream at any time

23:17:36 jurov: plus there is some pattern matching mechanism between tdreaming and external stimuli

23:17:50 jurov: to choose what is being processed further and verbalised

23:17:52 trinque: jurov: had the thought once in meditation that I was always... hm... thinking everything I've ever experienced all the time

23:18:33 Adlai: someone (iirc dennett) lamented that everybody has their own theory of consciousness, as though this was a bad thing!

23:18:34 jurov: i've tracked myself many thoughts back to that dream form

23:18:47 *: Adlai doesn't (yet) see any use to the theory of consciousness beyond discussing it

23:19:03 trinque: that is certainly so

23:19:32 *: trinque steps back from the lsd flashback, gets another beer

23:20:44 jurov: at least my theory is useful in practice. just close eyes and watch what's happening, no need to be bored ever again

23:21:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90000 @ 0.00028424 = 25.5816 BTC [+] {2}

23:21:16 trinque: jurov: also good to review whatever's slipped in there while one's distracted

23:21:23 Adlai: note that you can actually get cevs by doing just this, if you can keep your eyeballs from moving for ~5 minutes

23:21:33 jurov: it's pointedly nota mediatation in "think of something that is nothing" sense

23:21:54 danielpbarron: Adlai> note that you can actually get cevs by doing just this, if you can keep your eyeballs from moving for ~5 minutes << i used to do this when getting lecured by my mother as a child

23:22:02 Adlai: ahahaa

23:22:14 jurov: what's cev?

23:22:16 danielpbarron: OEV though

23:22:20 Adlai: closed-eye visions

23:22:49 trinque: man when I was a kid, I'd have bizarre dreams

23:22:50 Adlai: or visuals

23:22:58 trinque: had one where I asked god what it meant to not exist

23:23:02 trinque: at around 7

23:23:29 Adlai: http://psychedelicfrontier.com/perception-scope-how-conjure-open-eye-visuals/

23:23:30 assbot: The Perception Scope: How to Conjure Open-eye Visuals at Will - Psychedelic Frontier ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRQoyL )

23:23:51 trinque: lots of others involving apolcalyptic subjects

23:24:10 trinque: the scenarios the mind can simulate... I'd like a pill someday that causes lucid dreaming

23:24:40 nubbins`: train yourself for it

23:25:00 nubbins`: take melatonin, and every time you touch a doorknob or a light switch in waking life, ask yourself "am i dreaming?"

23:25:02 trinque: I run a business, too reactionary atm

23:25:12 trinque: if I fall asleep at all I'm good

23:25:16 nubbins`: eventually the habit will cross over

23:25:31 Adlai: the idea is to build a habit of doubting whether you're awake

23:25:32 nubbins`: and you'll find your dream-self holding a doorknob wondering if you're dreaming

23:25:43 trinque: I'll try it out

23:25:53 nubbins`: i had a roomie who did this with moderate success

23:25:54 jurov: i'm all for moderation. not immerse yourself in it, just be aware of the stream

23:26:30 Adlai: https://medium.com/@Grayfox/the-hacker-who-drank-ayahuasca-517148aa1ed4

23:26:31 assbot: The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9ZROf )

23:26:32 nubbins`: jurov classic explanation of LSD action is that it removes the filters that your brain normally automatically applies to that stream

23:26:44 trinque: Adlai: that one's on the list for when I can take a long enough vacation

23:27:04 jurov: s/automatic/learned

23:27:40 trinque: 2c-e was a hell of a journey once upon a time

23:28:08 trinque: seems like it messed with whatever simulates the world visually in the brain

23:28:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48133 @ 0.00028538 = 13.7362 BTC [+] {2}

23:28:19 trinque: found thoughts escaping out into the things I was seeing around me

23:28:21 trinque: that kind of thing

23:28:44 Adlai: literally, psychedelic = manifesting the mind

23:28:49 trinque: ah, there you go

23:29:10 nubbins`: jurov ooh, i like that, +1

23:29:11 trinque: shapes would form in front of me that corresponded to concepts, or so it seemed

23:29:17 jurov: lol you insist on psychedelic and whatnot. i'm about normal brain function

23:29:23 jurov: this: http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm

23:29:24 assbot: Project Renaissance, Image-Streaming ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa0bMV )

23:30:09 trinque: it is probably utterly american of me to desire the right technology to experience such things

23:30:13 Adlai: not really insisting, but the wagon is not moderate

23:30:14 jurov: "Contrary to recent general belief, virtually every human can quickly and readily learn to "get pictures" in his mind's eye, thus becoming able to do visual thinking."

23:30:19 trinque: as opposed to the right practice

23:31:18 jurov: heh technique. can't get any simpler than trying to describe what comes to mind

23:32:01 trinque: jurov: hm, seems just like what one does telling a story to another

23:34:24 jurov: when you're telling a story you're doing it to some purpose

23:35:00 jurov: this is describing whatever is happening in the brain

23:39:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73620 @ 0.00028779 = 21.1871 BTC [+] {4}

23:44:50 asciilifeform: the whole 'copy isn't you' thing is pure unadulterated vitalism, however.

23:45:23 asciilifeform: it is no accident, incidentally, that chemistry went nowhere until vitalism was banished from it

23:45:36 asciilifeform: and physics ground to a screeching halt when bohr reintroduced it to physics

23:46:09 asciilifeform: the answer to 'is the copy you' is 'shutthefuckup you're asking a broken question'

23:47:53 asciilifeform: (while you read this paragraph, it is quite likely that at least one of your neurons died. and wasn't even replaced with a copyable mechanical one, at that. are you 'still you' ? and moreover, do you find the question itself interesting, or the answer being something that matters ?)

23:49:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108718 @ 0.00029139 = 31.6793 BTC [+] {2}

23:50:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25632 @ 0.00029821 = 7.6437 BTC [+]

23:51:31 nubbins`: re: neurons gone wild

23:51:31 Adlai: well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying

23:51:52 nubbins`: you apparently see at comic-con type events a lot of people who have an "other self"

23:51:58 nubbins`: generally some sort of furry

23:52:15 Adlai: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/ninds_neuron.htm#death

23:52:17 assbot: The Life and Death of a Neuron: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa3gMN )

23:52:22 asciilifeform: nubbins`: to find people with 'more than one self' you generally have to visit more than one asylum

23:52:37 asciilifeform: (most 'multiple personality' cases are really just schizophrenics playing games. ask a specialist)

23:52:54 Adlai: ah, that word again

23:52:59 nubbins`: 8)

23:53:02 trinque: asciilifeform: well yeah, I think defining self is meaningless

23:53:09 trinque: but saying that is distinct from saying it doesn't exist

23:53:19 trinque: can I tell you what it feels like for me to type this?

23:53:25 nubbins`: asciilifeform i published an (embellished) bio of a man with schizophrenia

23:53:29 Adlai: most people roleplaying at conventions aren't even as 'dissociated' as a good method actor

23:53:32 nubbins`: *autobio

23:53:41 trinque: there's an experience happening over here, and it has an extent

23:53:47 asciilifeform: nubbins`: yeah i recall the thread

23:53:48 trinque: the extent of that experience will not expand when you duplicate me

23:54:01 Adlai: and it's a stretch to say that professional actors are schizophrenic, although many of them do seem to fear zoltan

23:54:02 nubbins`: there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer

23:54:08 nubbins`: but it's really just runaway thoughts

23:54:31 nubbins`: coupled with hypothetical "suppose this strawman was ME" type clauses

23:54:35 trinque: now hell, "you"

23:54:41 trinque: you is a broken concept for sure

23:54:41 asciilifeform: trinque: you say this, and so will the copy

23:54:49 trinque: asciilifeform: right, indistinguishable to you

23:54:55 asciilifeform: and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot

23:54:56 trinque: however a copy of you would be distinguishable to you

23:55:05 asciilifeform: which me

23:55:07 asciilifeform: l0l

23:55:08 trinque: doesn't matter

23:55:08 Adlai: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/15/answer-to-job/

23:55:11 assbot: Answer to Job | Slate Star Codex ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa3DqR )

23:55:11 trinque: each is distinct to itself

23:55:18 nubbins`: "which do i shoot" "either or, but not both"

23:55:23 trinque: asciilifeform: seems like you're thinking from an imaginary 3rd person perspective

23:55:34 trinque: all that matters to whichever me is me, is uh... me

23:55:37 trinque: lol

23:55:41 asciilifeform: but unless you posit some bit of of shamanism that distinguishes the original and is somehow copy-protected, the copying -happened-

23:56:03 trinque: talking at crossways I think

23:56:10 trinque: one's talking about identity, the other being

23:56:12 asciilifeform: (typically shaman says that no such thing as the copy could even be attempted, because the gods will drop a piano on your head.)

23:56:24 *: asciilifeform does not find ^ a very interesting hypothesis

23:56:44 nubbins`: copout

23:56:55 Adlai: in zindell's scifi, their best tech for copying - renders the organ being copied incapable of supporting further consciousness

23:57:17 Adlai: (functions as a plot element, not a copout)

23:58:32 trinque: asciilifeform: I began criticizing the idea that all of the infinite me's are to be considered as though they are the me driving the keyboard

23:58:46 trinque: whether they are the same to you doesn't matter at all to me

23:58:55 trinque: I will still strive to be the one not capped by the 45

23:58:57 trinque: :p

23:59:01 asciilifeform: again using this word that no longer has a correct meaning in the hypothetical system

23:59:02 asciilifeform: 'me'

23:59:10 trinque: I disagree entirely

23:59:14 asciilifeform: so shaman?

23:59:22 trinque: that I am sitting here having this experience defines "me" sufficiently for me to use it

23:59:31 trinque: if it doesn't for you, who cares?

23:59:50 asciilifeform: i might care, when it's my turn to argue with my copy about who should be shot