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Transcript for 20-05-2015, 1343 lines:

00:10:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60600 @ 0.00028226 = 17.105 BTC [+] {2}

00:11:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7450 @ 0.00029176 = 2.1736 BTC [+]

00:21:18 danielpbarron: !up gnnr who are you?

00:22:31 decimation: asciilifeform: re: smt placement < according to the podcast, the macrofab guys said they often hand-place stuff if it is going to be a pain in the ass to configure the pick n place for it

00:23:44 gnnr: hello just a reader of the logs, joining here

00:23:55 decimation: !up samO

00:24:26 decimation: asciilifeform: in fact, they implied that pretty much only house parts are placed on the pick n place, the rest are hand placed

00:24:53 asciilifeform: suggests that they severely, catastrophically undercharge then.

00:25:25 decimation: actually they asked him about that and he said no

00:25:34 decimation: apparently they have a supply of skilled techs

00:25:49 decimation: they are apparently profitable at these price levels

00:26:11 decimation: but they were going to branch out into more 'turnkey' design services so they can feed off of the kickstart idiocy

00:27:44 mod6: asciilifeform: you're familiar with mpi right?

00:28:45 asciilifeform: aha

00:28:48 asciilifeform: why

00:29:41 mod6: take a look at this: http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?

00:30:42 mod6: i see below the actual maff is being carried out in here:

00:30:42 mod6: mpi_sub_ui( t1, p, 1 );

00:30:42 mod6: mpi_sub_ui( t2, q, 1 );

00:30:48 mod6: they're both declared with type MPI, was just curious i guess.

00:31:25 ben_vulpes: hola pete_dushenski

00:31:39 pete_dushenski: looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose.

00:31:42 pete_dushenski: heya ben_vulpes

00:32:25 asciilifeform: mod6: no reason that i can think of

00:32:27 asciilifeform: suspicious as hell

00:32:33 mod6: ikr?

00:32:56 asciilifeform: where found this

00:33:03 trinque: ahaha this is rsa.c

00:33:07 pete_dushenski: not sure why i decided to write-up ex machina, which i didn't particularly enjoy, instead of dirty rotten scoundrels, which i also just watched and found to be quite a bit more of a hoot.

00:33:10 mod6: gnupg v1.4.13's rsa.c yup

00:33:23 mod6: seems, like it also exists at least in 1.4.12 too

00:33:45 asciilifeform: can we get the maintainer in here ?

00:33:51 pete_dushenski: 1.4.9 too ?

00:34:05 pete_dushenski: what of 2.x ?

00:34:12 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.gnnr.1:009c9a042d08395c24ba1117d6762c37db01e0d328c4e91cf3d868bdbc0e6b52

00:34:12 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gnnr with note: just a reader of the logs

00:34:36 gnnr: thanks daniel

00:35:55 mod6: so above there they do a swap of 'p' & 'q' to make p the smaller of the two. then they take the nlimbs of 'p' twice to allocate the space for each t1 & t2. which i thought was kinda strange.

00:36:24 asciilifeform: because it is.

00:37:36 decimation: does anyone maintain gpg v1?

00:38:07 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.trinque.2:4f4362b537fda69e14eadb8f693ed355d615a96b8dbd73f36e90c02b2605401f

00:38:07 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for trinque with note: coder formerly known as undata; deedbot maintainer

00:38:30 decimation: I guess david shaw

00:38:46 *: trinque tips hat at danielpbarron

00:40:41 pete_dushenski: howdy bitstein

00:40:43 mats: wtf is going on

00:40:46 bitstein: pete_dushenski: Nice write-up. I could use a party button in my home, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxXlPULqYN0

00:41:46 mats: gpg is broke

00:41:46 mats: where's my pistol

00:41:46 pete_dushenski: bitstein lol. and a sex robot too !

00:42:26 trinque: mats: get your blowtorch too

00:42:58 decimation: so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade?

00:44:07 bitstein: pete_dushenski: midwit-level analysis of AI aside, I wish they had explored Nathan's fear of his own invention more. I also thought that it ended two minutes later than it should have.

00:44:34 pete_dushenski: decimation for the same reason that cnn and the rest of the sideline jockeys report on news. they dun make it. just talk about it.

00:45:16 pete_dushenski: bitstein interesting. i was pleasantly surprised that ex machina ended where it did.

00:45:39 pete_dushenski: the movie was actually pretty tight for something made in the past 5 years.

00:45:44 decimation: pete_dushenski: I guess, but they are supposed to be running - a market?

00:46:09 pete_dushenski: decimation and obama is supposed to be president of the free world.

00:46:25 decimation: does your local grocery store display the spot price of tuna in tsukiji?

00:46:48 pete_dushenski: no, my local grocer is actually in business

00:46:53 pete_dushenski: and isn't tbtf

00:47:06 bitstein: pete_dushenski: agreed. I'm glad I went to the theater to see it. Not many movies worth the trip anymore.

00:47:13 pete_dushenski: decimation so he doesn't *have* to pretend.

00:47:39 mod6: holy shit gnupg v2 is bizzare! X_X

00:49:08 decimation: pete_dushenski: are you in calgary? I've heard they have the 'chinook winds' there

00:49:30 pete_dushenski: decimation i'm in edmonton, but what you've heard is true

00:49:57 pete_dushenski: calgary is a good bit more temperate than edmonton (300km further north) as a result of the chinook winds

00:50:35 pete_dushenski: bitstein it definitely yielded stimulating conversation, even if it had some holes in the plot and storyline

00:51:00 bitstein: and it brought the funk

00:51:11 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.pete_dushenski.3:c98198ca05e3d0fbae176f4dd3d4c57d69ab18ddf0bb904993b5394155e8bfaa

00:51:11 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for pete_dushenski from 2 to 3 with note: prolific writer and traveler of the world

00:51:34 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron ahoy. cheers mate.

00:53:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39307 @ 0.00029176 = 11.4682 BTC [+]

00:53:59 mod6: yikes! well, that confirms it, not that i was ever going to use gnupg v2 anyway, but now that i've looked at the code, CERTAINLY NOT.

00:54:24 pete_dushenski: hah.

00:55:35 pete_dushenski: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36j6uo/itbit_sent_my_api_info_with_username_password_api/ << lulz.

00:57:11 mod6: heheh, there are like even random '^L's in this file.

00:58:59 pete_dushenski: and in other news, livejasmin is accepting btc, ripple raised $28 mn, and bitcoin is "leaderless" now : http://www.technologyreview.com/news/537486/leaderless-bitcoin-struggles-to-make-its-most-crucial-decision/

01:03:54 asciilifeform: tr0l0l0l

01:04:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00028761 = 5.7091 BTC [-]

01:08:17 pete_dushenski: and 'gbtc' is back down to $29. for 'approximately' 0.1 btc.

01:08:34 pete_dushenski: still a healthy premium but also about half what it was in the first few manic days of trading.

01:11:02 BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!

01:11:58 asciilifeform: aaaand 12 moduli

01:13:48 asciilifeform: ... same pattern as others.

01:14:22 ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose. << whattabout Fury Road?

01:14:45 pete_dushenski: what about it ?

01:14:50 ben_vulpes: seen it?

01:14:54 pete_dushenski: nope.

01:15:11 pete_dushenski: it's rare that i see a mainstream flick, ex machina was definitely an exception.

01:15:20 ben_vulpes: i only watch action movies.

01:15:31 pete_dushenski: furious 7 was the last, before that i dun even remember.

01:15:40 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes lol for real ?

01:15:46 ben_vulpes: more or less.

01:15:56 ben_vulpes: of the modern releases.

01:16:29 pete_dushenski: i'm more of a comedy man myself, but there aren't really 'modern releases' in this genre that aren't animated.

01:16:43 pete_dushenski: so i see more than my share of 'kids movies'

01:16:52 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.gnnr:206844c78527cf3ce6cb27be9da39dc925da14b231de91645151ea1dae55c5e9

01:16:52 assbot: Successfully unrated gnnr

01:16:52 ben_vulpes: ah i do enjoy the odd kids' movie, but those are largely action movies as well

01:17:02 bitstein: The Lego Movie was absolutely fantastic.

01:17:04 ben_vulpes: Big Hero 6 was rather good.

01:17:17 pete_dushenski: but i'm off for persian dinner. laters !!

01:18:00 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu i've developed a heuristic. see litmus.py on dulap.

01:18:00 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:18:02 ben_vulpes: <decimation> so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade? << "price signal" is necessary for securities.

01:18:23 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu it is presently searching for, well... them.

01:18:23 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:18:36 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you tease!

01:18:48 ben_vulpes: you miserable tease

01:19:10 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so i walk into $redacted on monday and folks compare me to pons & fleischmann. so there'll be teasing, yes.

01:19:34 *: ben_vulpes to tango

01:19:41 ben_vulpes: i'll follow up on this later.

01:20:10 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.gavmatic.1:f816f77aa8eb6a0413d5a888793ee7bb0f27c041908de5885003e5fb510ee6fe

01:20:10 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gavmatic with note: claims to be gnnr and lost his key; writes at http://coinlaunch.com/

01:22:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52200 @ 0.00027731 = 14.4756 BTC [-]

01:23:26 BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> <pete_dushenski> looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose. << whattabout Fury Road? << No One's going to talk about the blantant pro-Doge propaganda in Age of Ultron?

01:32:06 gavmatic: yes it's just some of my ramblings, and a couple projects need to update thanks danielpbarron

01:52:52 decimation: ben_vulpes: right but the 'price signal' comes from - you know - trading?

01:53:12 decimation: or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance?

01:58:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65100 @ 0.00028362 = 18.4637 BTC [+] {2}

01:59:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26638 @ 0.00029101 = 7.7519 BTC [+]

02:09:08 mod6: looks like that part of the code hasn't changed since the initial checkin of the code back in nov. of 97: committer Werner Koch <wk@gnupg.org> Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:06:00 +0000 (14:06 +0000) 5393dd53c5e06f0458949217317601b2eaed8350 http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=5393dd53c5e06f0458949217317601b2eaed8350

02:10:08 mod6: hmm

02:10:17 BingoBoingo: Have to take that timestamp on a bit of faith since... git didn't exist yet

02:12:27 BingoBoingo: gavmatic: Hang around a bit and maybe think about submitting some pieces to qntra?

02:16:31 mod6: BingoBoingo: yeah, probably was ported 2x since then would be my guess; first from CVS to SVN then from SVN to GIT

02:19:55 gavmatic: sure thank you

02:21:25 trinque: https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/36h7jn/bahar_mustafa_goldsmiths_diversity_officer_at/?sort=top << the biggest lol is that notice which accompanies the thread being closed

02:22:25 asciilifeform: mod6 et al: iirc mircea_popescu once posted his vintage tarball of gpg src

02:22:25 trinque: all hail glorious corporate HR department mothering

02:22:25 asciilifeform: does anyone have it handy ?

02:23:15 trinque: !s tar gpg

02:23:16 assbot: 1 results for 'tar gpg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tar+gpg

02:23:27 trinque: !s tar gnupg

02:23:28 assbot: 0 results for 'tar gnupg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tar+gnupg

02:23:44 mod6: asciilifeform: naw, im searching for it.

02:24:08 asciilifeform: i have a 1.4.11 from 2010 if that helps

02:24:13 asciilifeform: but would prefer another

02:24:39 asciilifeform: would have to plug ancient disks in, though, something to be avoided if possible

02:26:02 mod6: i see one here as old as 1.2.0

02:26:24 gavmatic: ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/historic/

02:26:45 mod6: ftp://ftp.ring.gr.jp/pub/net/gnupg/gnupg/

02:27:38 gavmatic: they have 0.2.8

02:27:46 asciilifeform: mod6: i'd like to see ones from wot folks' disks.

02:27:51 asciilifeform: signed by them

02:28:29 mod6: *nod* fair enough.

02:29:38 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell justJanne Parts of the US have Nordic Systen style laws https://www.agr.state.il.us/Laws/Regs/8iac220.pdf

02:30:38 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:30:38 trinque: I'm spelunking in the wayback machine for shasums or something

02:30:38 BingoBoingo: !up tidus

02:30:59 tidus: Is bitcoin safe from obama?

02:31:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110200 @ 0.00028278 = 31.1624 BTC [-]

02:32:11 tidus: I love my nexus 6 and nexus 9

02:32:43 asciilifeform: meowmix has a cloak ?!

02:33:05 tidus: No meowmix is on 4g smartphone

02:33:11 tidus: Ban me

02:33:32 BingoBoingo: !down tidus

02:33:33 trinque: mod6: https://web.archive.org/web/20021017061453/http://www.gnupg.org/download.html << fwiw

02:34:57 trinque: asciilifeform: if you end up opening your treasure chest please deedbot- the sha256sums

02:35:45 mod6: thx trinque

02:36:36 mod6: bbs

02:39:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00027731 = 3.4109 BTC [-]

02:44:28 BingoBoingo: !up thestringpuller

02:51:51 BingoBoingo: http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/Portals/0/Gardening/Gardening%20Help/images/Pests/Snakes1938.jpg

02:58:21 decimation: https://clearlinux.org/ < lol now intel wants to build a linux distribution

03:03:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69704 @ 0.00028526 = 19.8838 BTC [+] {2}

03:04:33 decimation: BingoBoingo: lol bullfrogs are hardcore

03:13:27 mod6: ok, so gnupg v2 relies on libgcrypt to generate the keys, i finally found the code: dpaste.com/3106AJC.txt Seems that it does the same thing as v1 when doing the Euler totient.

03:13:57 mod6: there's a link at the top of that paste to where I found it.

03:18:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66450 @ 0.00027796 = 18.4704 BTC [-] {4}

03:43:42 mike_c: ;;later tell jurov sorry for the wait, found this lying around on my todo list - http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7/

03:44:42 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:51:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148602 @ 0.0002852 = 42.3813 BTC [+] {2}

03:53:51 danielpbarron: https://vine.co/v/eATKOM9EFXF

04:08:59 ben_vulpes: <decimation> [01:51] or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance? << are you familiar with the "winkdex"?

04:09:31 ben_vulpes: "gavmatic" << amusing handle

04:10:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40350 @ 0.00027934 = 11.2714 BTC [-] {2}

04:15:19 ben_vulpes: 'But she added the uses of hashtags such as "kill all white men" on her personal account were "in-jokes and ways that many people in the queer feminist community express ourselves".' << gotta love these people. "when you make jokes i don't understand and therefore piss me off, i round up a hate squad and get you fired. when i make jokes, it's in-group solidarity and YOU CAN'T SAY ANYHTING ABOUT IT"

04:23:21 decimation: ben_vulpes: I'm familiar with the idea that exists. no idea how it is calculated

04:25:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 347650 @ 0.00027573 = 95.8575 BTC [-] {3}

04:28:20 ben_vulpes: decimation: you're not allowed to know!

04:35:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.00028952 = 7.0498 BTC [+] {3}

04:47:43 ben_vulpes: ;;seen herbijudlestoids

04:47:44 gribble: herbijudlestoids was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 41 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <herbijudlestoids> brb.

04:54:26 ben_vulpes: http://deedbot.org/deed-2015-05-04-01-34-51.txt << lol @ hanbot's codeblock

04:57:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 175700 @ 0.00027194 = 47.7799 BTC [-] {3}

04:59:38 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sha512(the_answer.tar.gz.asc) == b0d915a9f73a21c47b0444a31cf8e3a9393e31a8cc676aec318198ff5d0f958d68756b160335d65ba7dce2e94072de19e4cc4214912f81cee121bdd6d9a4aec8, aaand you've got mail.

04:59:38 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:13:25 ben_vulpes: MYSTERIES

05:14:48 hanbot: ben_vulpes yeah i'd be happy to find a better way to do that.

05:26:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74550 @ 0.00028616 = 21.3332 BTC [+]

05:31:28 punkman: https://weakdh.org/

05:34:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182800 @ 0.00027053 = 49.4529 BTC [-] {4}

05:36:59 mats: gossipd would be pretty good for cnc servers

05:37:04 punkman: " allows a man-in-the-middle attacker to downgrade vulnerable TLS connections to 512-bit export-grade cryptography"

05:37:06 ben_vulpes: hanbot: specifically the part i found amusing was the closing </code> tag at the top of the document and the opening <code> tag at the bottom

05:37:56 punkman: how many downgrade attacks do they need to have before they cut out the stupid modes?

05:43:53 ben_vulpes: trinque: dpaste with patch vanished. plz to turdalize.

05:44:53 mircea_popescu: o hai alfie

05:44:59 mircea_popescu: whenever i sleep, he comes up with something.

05:45:00 trinque: ben_vulpes: oh the dieharder thing?

05:45:28 ben_vulpes: trinque: yeah, that

05:45:32 ben_vulpes: sil vous plait

05:46:20 trinque: ben_vulpes: https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=403502&action=diff

05:47:20 trinque: real simple change

05:47:20 ben_vulpes: ayup

05:47:21 ben_vulpes: zactly what i was lookin for

05:47:21 ben_vulpes: ty

05:47:21 trinque: np

05:48:20 trinque: the real solution is apparently unfucking dieharder more broadly

05:48:41 trinque: it diddles glibc internal preprocessor flags, so on

05:53:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112100 @ 0.00026797 = 30.0394 BTC [-] {3}

06:07:57 ben_vulpes: "The key facet of the OS X audio I/O model involves predictive timing mechanisms. Instead of requiring the driver to message an application directly when an I/O cycle has completed, the timing mechanisms enable the Audio HAL to predict when the cycle will complete." << wowee

06:10:36 mats: writing a driver are we

06:10:47 ben_vulpes: not if i can't help it

06:11:09 ben_vulpes: adc on the cheap via mic input

06:11:10 mats: its not so bad

06:11:19 mats: ah

06:11:39 ben_vulpes: maybe fuck it, record an audio file and nom those bits?

06:11:42 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ^^

06:18:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00028347 = 7.0301 BTC [+]

06:28:31 ben_vulpes: !up isaackl

06:28:34 ben_vulpes: heyo

06:29:18 isaackl: Thanks!

06:29:33 ben_vulpes: what brings you by?

06:29:51 isaackl: I was reading the epic conversation with justJanne

06:30:46 isaackl: Figured since I've actually read a decent amount of fraudsters.com and the b-a logs I should finally join the chan

06:30:55 ben_vulpes: o you have have ya

06:30:57 ben_vulpes: welcome

06:30:59 isaackl: Heh

06:32:43 isaackl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-05-2015#1130899 < I see there was already some discussion of 21.co

06:32:43 assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:42:17; asciilifeform: re: '21' etc >> 'The cornerstone of the strategy as presented would have been the release of consumer products that would turn power from wall sockets into bitcoin through the widespread dissemination of bitcoin mining chips.' << -somebody- clearly reads the 2013 #b-a logs.

06:33:22 isaackl: They keep derping about 'Bitcoin is a protocol'/internet-of-things craziness

06:33:58 isaackl: A bit at odds with their plan to leach electricity off consumers for mining

06:34:21 isaackl: So I wonder

06:34:42 isaackl: Is there 'bitcoin is a protocol' stuff a cynical ploy

06:35:45 isaackl: Or do they actually believe that stuff and know are desperately looking to put their VC bezzlebucks to good use

06:38:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59385 @ 0.00027331 = 16.2305 BTC [-]

06:40:17 isaackl: I.e., how many of the VC-funded "crypocurrency! blockchain!" startups have realised the optimal move is simply to hoard bitcoin?

06:44:37 ben_vulpes: isaackl: see the copious historical threads on how fiat-backed forays into bitcoin are more-or-less raiding parties for the US Treasury

06:45:03 isaackl: ben_vulpes: "Buterin's waterfall", etc?

06:49:14 isaackl: I would still bet that 95% of bitcoin startup guys are true believers

06:50:23 isaackl: So who are the 5%, how has USG compromised them

06:52:42 ben_vulpes: the waterfall was the windmill-tilt at driving the price to zero

06:53:11 ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the notion of "useful idiots"?

06:53:54 isaackl: Yeah

06:57:07 isaackl: 21.co (and their a16z backers) on paper seem too smart to be useful idiots

06:57:15 isaackl: Ethereum, sure

06:57:40 ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the buckshot approach to "investment" common in startuplandia?

06:57:41 isaackl: And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor

06:58:03 isaackl: Yeah, I figured that as the most likely null hypothesis

06:58:46 ben_vulpes: dude the entire vc space is incredibly cynical

06:58:55 ben_vulpes: overt "greater fool theory" investments everywhere.

06:59:13 ben_vulpes: 21 doesn't pass the even-barely-making-sense test.

06:59:42 ben_vulpes: the days of thousand+ coin scams are nowhere near past us, they're just denominated in dollars now.

06:59:45 ben_vulpes: !up isaackl

06:59:49 ben_vulpes: get in the wot, you.

07:00:25 isaackl: I'm registered

07:00:35 punkman: 21 seems like a reasonable chumpatron to me

07:00:38 isaackl: Not yet rated

07:00:48 BingoBoingo: !up vexual

07:01:47 isaackl: Indeed, my guess was Balaji raised on buzzword bingo (blockchain technologee! IoT!) and then groped around for an actual plan

07:03:18 isaackl: Last gig was freelancing for another startup (curiously, also backed by a16z and qualcomm). Their big product was an Android emulator, lots of users, crazy schemes to try and monetize them

07:03:48 ben_vulpes: !getrating isaackl

07:03:54 ben_vulpes: !gettrust isaackl

07:03:55 assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user isaackl: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=ben_vulpes&to=isaackl | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/isaackl/

07:04:20 ben_vulpes: !rate isaackl 1 new startupfounder

07:04:20 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/db51e5827faed886

07:04:40 isaackl: "cynical" but also, in the long-run, impractical

07:04:45 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.isaackl.1:d0dd779d88427861d58d13a6e07d75fbf1db8ea67e2735938e6bce91f97a517f

07:04:45 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for isaackl with note: new startupfounder

07:04:48 ben_vulpes:

07:04:53 isaackl: Thanks!

07:05:00 ben_vulpes: easy come, easy go.

07:05:16 ben_vulpes: and what are you working on now?

07:05:23 ben_vulpes: evening, Adlai

07:05:32 isaackl: Though I'm not a "startup founder"

07:05:55 Adlai: but are you a ninja?

07:06:01 isaackl: I'm just derping around in Thailand, riding motorbikes, and reading up on finance, cryptography and bitcoin

07:08:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124000 @ 0.00028202 = 34.9705 BTC [+]

07:09:41 ben_vulpes: sounds like quite the life

07:09:50 isaackl: It's pretty good!

07:11:13 isaackl: End-goal is to build a legit bitcoin biz but I've read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0 so I'm not rushing into anything

07:12:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118966 @ 0.00028265 = 33.6257 BTC [+] {2}

07:12:13 ben_vulpes: and to think that was written in 2012

07:15:34 ben_vulpes: isaackl: what kinds of businesses do you have your eyes on?

07:20:27 isaackl: Well, taking the thesis that the real value of bitcoin is as an inflation hedge, and that funds will increasingly flow into bitcoin as people realise this

07:21:21 isaackl: (i.e., after a few more reward halvings mean less coin is being dumped on the market by miners, speculators have been burned enough times that more coin is held by long-term investors and volatility drops a bit)

07:23:10 isaackl: Sensible bitcoin businesses are those that increase the value of btc as an investment (not user adoption or transaction volume or anything like that

07:23:26 ben_vulpes: wait whut

07:23:30 ben_vulpes: no no man no

07:23:40 ben_vulpes: a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners

07:23:43 ben_vulpes: nothing more, nothing less

07:24:26 mircea_popescu: i see this is becoming a dailything now.

07:24:41 ben_vulpes: nobody can do anything to increase the value of btc as an investment. it's here, it's queer, nobody's changing it.

07:25:18 ben_vulpes: where'd the 55 yo steelworker get off to

07:25:22 ben_vulpes: ;;seen justJanne

07:25:22 gribble: justJanne was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <justJanne> Anyway, I'm sorry, but I don't have much time arguing with people like you stupidly about fictional politics.

07:25:22 *: mircea_popescu blames ben_vulpes

07:25:40 ben_vulpes: i blame your keymageddon

07:26:12 isaackl: Hypothetical example: a hyper-secure bitcoin wallet that's easy enough for a Warren Buffet to use. Maybe not actually possible, but if it existed, much more wealth would flow into bitcoin, no?

07:26:14 mircea_popescu: in unexplectedly related lulz :

07:26:15 mircea_popescu: From: junior@e-technik.uni-rostock.de

07:26:15 mircea_popescu: Subject: Improve potency and gain more size

07:26:23 ben_vulpes: it's late, sense of humor got burned out at tango tonite

07:26:28 mircea_popescu: isaackl you ever read the causes/purposes article ?

07:26:35 isaackl: mircea_popescu: yeah

07:26:47 mircea_popescu: so why are you derping about various obscure purposes ? let it be.

07:27:01 mircea_popescu: if you can do something useful, do it. if not, relax and watch the show.

07:27:13 *: ben_vulpes attempts to rerax

07:27:45 isaackl: OK, concrete idea I had

07:27:57 mircea_popescu: no, but see... you ever read the ideas article ?

07:28:06 isaackl: Which one?

07:28:22 mircea_popescu: trick question, wasn't one per se. but the idea is why the fuck do you think you're having ideas ?

07:29:04 isaackl: OK, no ideas.

07:29:15 mircea_popescu: leaving alone how "concrete idea" is a contradiction in terms.

07:29:53 mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.

07:30:06 isaackl: This is indeed why I spend my time right now just researching

07:30:17 mircea_popescu: aite.

07:30:25 mircea_popescu: !gettrust isaackl

07:30:27 assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user isaackl: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=isaackl | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/isaackl/

07:30:39 mircea_popescu: do you know how to self-voice even ?

07:31:12 mircea_popescu: !up isaackl

07:31:21 isaackl: Cheers

07:31:26 mircea_popescu: pm assbot !up

07:31:50 isaackl: OK, unlike justJanne I'm very willing to have my youthful derpiness forcefully removed

07:31:58 isaackl: Why I came here

07:32:06 mircea_popescu: cool.

07:32:09 ben_vulpes: http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unk6/clim-spec/ << bitrot!

07:33:10 ben_vulpes: !up Vexual

07:33:10 mircea_popescu: what are you doing now, stalking Germany ?

07:33:10 trinque: ben_vulpes: hoard ye all PDFs that can be found!

07:33:10 ben_vulpes: ha!

07:33:10 ben_vulpes: when did vexual get unbanned?

07:33:10 mircea_popescu: when jurov bitched.

07:33:10 isaackl: My reasoning was, there's multiple candidates to unseat the USD. RMB, Gold, BTC

07:33:39 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah i'm going to find her photo and then doxx her

07:33:42 mircea_popescu: isaackl what's this, like an exam of sorts ? the heavenly throne is holding a vote to replace the old usd with a spiffy young fellow ?

07:33:43 isaackl: Currency is a schelling point. People with lots of USD start buying bitcoin, eventually there's a runaway effect

07:33:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes intel has her photo, at 16 and current. looks a little tranny.

07:34:27 ben_vulpes: poor thing, no wonder she's spending her life in my little pony chans

07:34:53 isaackl: No, just the aggregate decisions of people with lots of USD. If 60% choose to buy gold and 40% choose to buy btc

07:35:25 mircea_popescu: it's the blessing of suck, you know ? very beautiful (and i mean, VERY, stunner beautiful) chicks develop early adolescence dementia because of all the insane sexual attention they get and don't really want, need, or know what to do with.

07:35:39 mircea_popescu: very smart chicks develop the same, because of the same, only different but in the end the same.

07:35:45 mircea_popescu: adults are fucking perverts.

07:36:21 mircea_popescu: isaackl the idea being that your representation of this thing is manufactured for the needs of representation. it's what they call a didacticism, with no actual connection to reality. bad way to think.

07:37:08 *: ben_vulpes ponders

07:37:17 isaackl: Then gold will quite possibly win the runaway effect. The gold mining rate is a constant 1.5% or so a year, so post a few more reward halvings bitcoin has the advantage

07:37:34 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

07:37:38 gribble: Current Blocks: 357233 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1614 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47459292440.3 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227

07:37:44 mircea_popescu: negative now huh ?

07:38:00 mircea_popescu: isaackl come up with the formula for bitcoin inflation, i'm curious.

07:38:01 ben_vulpes: "this coordinate system is highly unportable, and it always ended up being an intermediate stage to some other coordinate system. Thus this coordinate system has been exorcised and should be avoided in the future. JPM 1-29-91" << i am actually growing to love software archaeology

07:38:42 isaackl: mircea_popescu: OK, to connect it to reality. Sovereign wealth fund, has a lot of USD. Realises USG is shaky and wants to diversify. How do they decide how much to allocate to gold or bitcoin?

07:38:45 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yup. cultural archeology is the superset, antrhopology being the application. it's what the wise do with their time.

07:38:52 mircea_popescu: isaackl seriously, print out the formula.

07:39:04 mircea_popescu: (it's not really that hard)

07:39:14 isaackl: mirce_popescu: 50% mined between 2009 and first reward halving, halves after each reward halving

07:39:25 mircea_popescu: nope.

07:39:36 isaackl: What?

07:39:36 ben_vulpes: my problem is finding the things that fit in my head

07:39:44 mircea_popescu: that's not the formula.

07:40:59 isaackl: mircea_popescu: k

07:41:14 isaackl: What is this, a Google interview?

07:41:56 mircea_popescu: Idt = Mdt / _M3 + C%dt.

07:41:59 mircea_popescu: and now we read it out loud :

07:42:13 ben_vulpes: this is ASSETTTTTS

07:42:28 mircea_popescu: bitcoin inflation over an interval equals the mined coins over that interval divided by the average monetary mass during that interval plus the percent change over that interval.

07:42:42 mircea_popescu: Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227 << that thing is the last term.

07:42:59 mircea_popescu: bitcoin nominal inflation may be whatever it may be, but its REAL inflation is always zero.

07:43:16 ben_vulpes: what is "real" inflation?

07:43:27 mircea_popescu: obviously before bitcoin nobody even understood that there is ANOTHER kind of real inflation, and thus therefore the real inflation from before is actually yet another kind of nominal inflation

07:43:30 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes.

07:43:45 isaackl: Because the mining rate is known in advance and already priced in?

07:43:55 ben_vulpes: difference between what one expects the monetary base to do and what it's actually doing?

07:43:58 mircea_popescu: anyway, all this given here to underscore the fact that this shit is really fucking complex, to the point of excluding most specialists, let alone amateurs.

07:44:02 mircea_popescu: isaackl no. vice-versa

07:44:07 mircea_popescu: because IT prices YOU in.

07:44:38 isaackl: Damn you're like a Zen master. You need a stick

07:44:58 mircea_popescu: i am just very old.

07:46:12 isaackl: Anyway, all I was getting to is that in the long run, even gold is softer than bitcoin

07:46:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00029184 = 18.561 BTC [+] {3}

07:46:54 isaackl: And in the universe where everyone with USD is a hyper-rational optimal investor, bitcoin takes over.

07:47:49 ben_vulpes: in all universes.

07:48:13 ben_vulpes: there is no better money.

07:49:30 isaackl: Clearly not this universe. And gold has the advantage that people have millenia of experience securing physical things. Bitcoin can be more secure than gold, if you know what you're doing. But people lose wallets, forget passwords, choose crackable keys, etc

07:49:35 isaackl: Not a problem with bitcoin

07:49:49 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, for the journos and other news fiends watching the log : i came to a resolution of a major sticking point re the rsa factorisation thing, large article coming in a few hours.

07:49:56 ben_vulpes: ah shit

07:49:59 ben_vulpes: i was going to go to sleep

07:50:02 isaackl: But is a problem for people considering using it.

07:50:14 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you goitta sleep sometime

07:50:18 ben_vulpes: isaackl: gold has this vault problem.

07:50:29 isaackl: ben_vulpes

07:50:30 ben_vulpes: big, obvious, easily walked off with by your local government.

07:50:41 isaackl: ben_vulpes: yeah. another pro to btc

07:50:43 ben_vulpes: assuming that you can even amass a quantity of the real stuff, and aren't playing with paper.

07:50:56 ben_vulpes: besides, securing physical things comes down to guns.

07:50:59 mircea_popescu: the monopoly on violence problem makes everyone unable to actually hold gold.

07:51:13 ben_vulpes: yeah, that.

07:51:31 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/lets-pretend/#selection-267.231-267.710 <

07:52:31 isaackl: What I'm getting to is, if you can make a secure wallet that's easy to use for, say, the peter schiffs of the world, that increases the demand for bitcoin, no?

07:52:31 ben_vulpes: no.

07:52:31 ben_vulpes: they have staff.

07:52:31 ben_vulpes: if they want btc, they get btc.

07:52:50 mircea_popescu: isaackl you really think i depend on you to make me the tools that the universe requires for my survival ?

07:53:05 ben_vulpes: what's scaring people off (which is unimportant, but let's pretend for a moment) is the horrendous shitpile that the bitcoin source actually is.

07:53:08 mircea_popescu: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ?

07:53:24 mircea_popescu: i.... i imagine they know that.

07:54:36 isaackl: mircea_popescu: no.

07:54:58 isaackl: To be clear, I wasn't proposing to make such a thing.

07:54:59 ben_vulpes: isaackl: your 'wallet' experiment also suffers from the inescapable existence of ease of use and security of cryptographic goods at opposite poles.

07:56:09 isaackl: ben_vulpes: indeed. even smart people fuck this shit up

07:56:28 ben_vulpes: and /routinely/.

07:56:46 ben_vulpes: the only way to get good at it is to do it.

07:56:48 ben_vulpes: repeatedly.

07:57:19 mircea_popescu: that's what the abbot told the virgin, at any rate.

07:57:19 ben_vulpes: as with dance, sex, wine, etc. skin in the game as a prerequisite for competence.

08:02:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28720 @ 0.00029211 = 8.3894 BTC [+]

08:02:41 ben_vulpes: !up isaackl

08:02:43 *: ben_vulpes yawns

08:03:38 isaackl: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ? < Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more

08:04:41 isaackl: Improve security of cryptographic goods, demand for bitcoin goes up

08:05:09 ben_vulpes: dude it takes a day to set up a rock solid btc infrastructure

08:05:32 ben_vulpes: if you don't have a day to do it correctly, you don't need to be in bitcoin badly enough

08:06:28 mircea_popescu: https://8ch.net/btc/res/245.html << pls tell me dank of tardstalk.org fame is not now an internet meme !?

08:07:28 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139747 <<< i dunno but i think anything grown in your backyard has you eating as a king, not a poor pleb

08:07:28 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 01:11:02; BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!

08:07:28 ben_vulpes: "generas unique design makes it possible to make logic changes and feature enhancements to it on the fly without disrupting day-to-day operations of your users" << asciilifeform but how?

08:08:55 mircea_popescu: cazalla agreed.

08:16:40 mircea_popescu: !up rdymac__

08:20:12 isaackl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139957 < Sure. And there aren't many rational reasons for people to hand over their bitcoins. (While most of the economy runs on fiat, makes sense to spend fiat and hoard btc). Gambling sites seem like one of the few options

08:20:12 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 07:23:40; ben_vulpes: a sensible btc business makes bitcoins for its owners

08:20:20 isaackl: SDICE, BBET, etc

08:21:11 isaackl: Gambling is rational if it's one of the rare games like poker where you can get an edge. Hard to design games like that, you need to convince the fish they can win too

08:21:57 mircea_popescu: sdice was -ev

08:22:36 isaackl: mircea_popescu: yeah. In which case you're basically selling entertainment

08:22:42 davout: mircea_popescu: unless martingale1!!1

08:22:51 mircea_popescu: davout o right you are :p

08:23:13 davout: which goes back to convincing the fish they can get an edge

08:24:00 davout: imo it's the only thing that makes the dice games profitable, the endless supply of martingale-chumps

08:24:24 isaackl: Yeah. Poker is great at that, fishy play gets you the occasional exciting big win. Fishy play is -ev of course, but high variance

08:25:20 isaackl: So on a table with 2 sharks and 6 fish, 2 fish will win a lot, the sharks and house will consistently make a little, and 4 fish will lose

08:25:38 isaackl: Online poker eventually saw an accumulation of sharks and the fish left

08:27:55 isaackl: And some fish just love to gamble. I used to do marketing for the mobile-slots chumpatron, humorously people pay real money but they can't cash out real money

08:28:13 isaackl: But the virtual gambling kick is enough

08:28:58 mircea_popescu: davout hey, the first math class that pays for itself.

08:29:20 ben_vulpes: everyone in that class fails out

08:29:39 mircea_popescu: isaackl wait. the stupid "X Y Z" themed slot machines in ipad store ?

08:29:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18934 @ 0.00028905 = 5.4729 BTC [-]

08:29:50 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's how you run a real school.

08:30:02 isaackl: mircea_popescu: yep. Android only these days

08:30:09 mircea_popescu: dude how the fuck does this stupid shit work

08:30:14 mircea_popescu: i've been trying to figure this out.

08:30:15 isaackl: Biggest money-making gaming genre on the play store

08:30:22 mircea_popescu: so... why not just you know, play a free one ?!

08:30:38 mircea_popescu: why not draw the thing on paper and win all the time ?

08:30:42 mircea_popescu: my mind was so blown...

08:30:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 174000 @ 0.00027518 = 47.8813 BTC [-]

08:31:57 isaackl: My personal theory was it's similar psychology to RPGs, clicker games, even strategy games a little bit. You're constantly chasing advnatages which let you chase advantages, etc

08:32:29 isaackl: So people playing slots aren't trying to win so they can buy stuff. They want to win so they get more gambling tokens

08:33:05 mircea_popescu: but...

08:33:20 mircea_popescu: eh i give up.

08:35:09 cazalla: they tried to ban em down under but no luck

08:35:24 cazalla: pokies ipad games are popular with the kids though

08:36:14 cazalla: must be a different type of addict who plays them, i can't imagine your typical gambler playing them seeing there is no moment of win/loss

08:37:49 isaackl: mircea_popescu: what can I say, maybe they have no purpose, only dopamine causes

08:38:09 mircea_popescu: cazalla ikr?

08:38:22 mircea_popescu: isaackl i think they're too advanced for my puny brain

08:38:36 mircea_popescu: the brancusi of digital.

08:39:00 isaackl: We targeted women in their 50s and 60s in places like Florida, if that makes sense

08:39:30 isaackl: FB lets you do things like target cigarette smokers. Who says it's not useful...

08:40:24 mircea_popescu: so you used to do what, marketing for this ?

08:41:15 isaackl: Yeah

08:44:13 mircea_popescu: how would you like to do some marketing for me then ?

08:49:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60050 @ 0.00027518 = 16.5246 BTC [-]

08:49:29 ben_vulpes: http://poker.cs.ualberta.ca/publications/IJCAI03.pdf

09:04:27 mircea_popescu: 13 keys so far btw.

09:04:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88850 @ 0.00028146 = 25.0077 BTC [+]

09:11:12 kakobrekla: any interesting ones?

09:11:38 ben_vulpes: lol you thought bitcoin needed space

09:11:58 ben_vulpes: a leading poker bot takes 12 TB of compressed data

09:17:41 mircea_popescu: yes.

09:20:04 mircea_popescu: anyway, coupla hours.

09:37:30 isaackl: mircea_popescu: very much so.

09:38:06 mircea_popescu: ok, here's the deal : bitbet has a referral system, where one gets 1% of the value of bets made by referrals.

09:38:18 mircea_popescu: you get a 1btc budget, your job is to get > 1 btc in referrals over a month.

09:39:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.00028692 = 6.6135 BTC [+]

09:40:52 mircea_popescu: in here dood.

09:43:53 isaackl: ok. online marketing for this kind of thing is usually about finding an under-exploited channel.

09:45:04 isaackl: what are people currently doing for bitbet referrals,how much low-hanging fruit has been plucked?

09:46:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88355 @ 0.00028146 = 24.8684 BTC [-]

09:46:58 mircea_popescu: i dun think anyone did much of anything.

09:47:04 Adlai: isaackl: the most successful referrals are in useful banners, eg http://www.btcalpha.com/bitbet/1128/

09:48:05 mircea_popescu: i would guess 90% of all marketing is happening on 8chan via mike_c s banners

09:48:05 mircea_popescu: https://8ch.net/btc/ < up there

09:49:06 isaackl: The only banner I see links to fraudsters? But yeah, ifhe 8chan ads are fairly new, there's probably a ton of optimising can be done

09:51:11 mircea_popescu: well reload.

09:51:15 mircea_popescu: and they are 5 days old or so.

09:51:34 mircea_popescu: and yes there's probably a ton of work that can be done. just needs someone competent to do it.

09:51:42 isaackl: Then most certainly yes.

09:52:47 mircea_popescu: aite, addy ?

09:53:05 isaackl: email or btc?

09:53:27 mircea_popescu: btc, for your budget.

09:54:33 adlai: isaackl: banners such as http://www.btcalpha.com/bitbet/1128/ad.png linking to eg http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/?ref=1Egc5vkin3zemK4rAP8Vj3gnpg4XrK55Tg

09:56:34 adlai: will establish the referral cookie for a month or so

10:00:45 isaackl: 1Bum3oXxbCLUg54snyL6rmBz7vRBuPUr6G

10:01:37 mircea_popescu: aite you'll have it later today.

10:01:44 isaackl: Cool!

10:02:12 isaackl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139982 < and yes, I'll follow this advice

10:02:12 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 07:29:53; mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.

10:02:29 adlai: the world according to 1bum

10:08:01 isaackl: mircea_popescu: and how do you prefer to communicate? all through the channel?

10:08:38 mircea_popescu: i prefer to not communicate lol. do your job, report the methodology and results once you're done. you got a blog ?

10:14:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89600 @ 0.00028802 = 25.8066 BTC [+] {2}

10:15:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73171 @ 0.00028069 = 20.5384 BTC [-] {2}

10:16:40 mircea_popescu: 15.

10:16:45 mircea_popescu: holy shit on a fuckstick.

10:22:19 cazalla: hey isaackl, i know this one weird tip if you need some help

10:28:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123100 @ 0.0002927 = 36.0314 BTC [+] {3}

10:50:46 jurov: mike_c tyvm!

10:53:38 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu 0.5%

10:53:47 mircea_popescu: oh right.

10:55:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00028246 = 12.8237 BTC [-]

10:57:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26577 @ 0.00028246 = 7.5069 BTC [-]

10:59:42 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell vexual what's the story there ?

10:59:42 gribble: The operation succeeded.

11:05:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00028246 = 14.4196 BTC [-]

11:25:56 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations/

11:26:56 mircea_popescu: feel free to put it in... uh... hn, lmao.

11:26:56 fluffypony: lol

11:28:23 davout: mircea_popescu: it's on hn, let's watch the ranking pattern

11:28:34 davout: off to read it

11:28:47 mircea_popescu: o, it's glorious.

11:33:20 davout: so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life"

11:35:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00028246 = 6.6519 BTC [-]

11:36:22 fluffypony: davout: that was a great post!

11:36:23 fluffypony: :-P

11:37:14 kakobrekla: davout> so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life" < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPyFRa39AMk

11:38:14 mircea_popescu: better to say it wrong than eat it wrong amirite

11:38:14 davout: kakobrekla: kek

11:38:35 mircea_popescu: lol

11:39:10 kakobrekla: since I saw this clip, i always try to mispronounce it, if i remember on time.

11:40:57 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell justjanne Raphael Nicolai Fabian Randschau (Uni Kiel) <rra-squee-informatik.uni-kiel.de> top keks.

11:40:57 gribble: The operation succeeded.

11:43:15 kakobrekla: and this is the hn effect, supposedly http://i.imgur.com/AXyjE0h.png

11:44:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171573 @ 0.00027958 = 47.9684 BTC [-] {2}

11:44:15 scoopbot_revived: More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations http://fraudsters.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations/

11:44:15 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla on what, logs ?

11:44:15 kakobrekla: logs mostly but other stuff that runs on same box is included

11:44:15 mircea_popescu: aha

11:44:15 mircea_popescu: nb.

11:51:47 davout: number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1

11:51:57 mircea_popescu: you dont say.

11:52:28 davout: some guy from gnupg

11:52:46 davout: "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"

11:52:57 davout: "Apple Product Security"

11:53:36 *: mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.

11:54:00 davout: but these are keys that simply -declare- this as an UID right?

11:54:22 mircea_popescu: dja want me to publish the actual archive as spit out by the test ?

11:54:36 davout: not sure i'd know how to exploit it

11:54:55 davout: might be interesting to have a table with the fingerprints matched with the uids you list

11:55:04 mircea_popescu: kinda left it as it is so people can independently check.

11:55:17 mircea_popescu: it's all a pgp keyserver archive download + python script away

11:55:25 davout: yea

11:59:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44790 @ 0.00027518 = 12.3253 BTC [-]

12:04:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133494 @ 0.00027886 = 37.2261 BTC [+]

12:06:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76355 @ 0.00027886 = 21.2924 BTC [+]

12:18:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139474 << im not reading fucking pdfs

12:18:53 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 17:54:59; ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu very relevant >> http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/techreports/2004/cacr2004-01.pdf

12:49:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i keep various cheap gadgets around that will eat pdfs. you can get chinese printer that will, etc. (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form)

12:50:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: item in question treated rsa weakening from the use of peculiarly large exponents.

12:51:54 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140218 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140221 << l0l aha. was waiting for somebody to notice.

12:51:54 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:51:47; davout: number 23 : "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" <<< !!1

12:51:54 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:52:46; davout: "debian.sur5r.net Archive Automatic Signing Key"

12:52:18 Apocalyptic: (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form) // except postscript maybe

12:52:40 asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: postscript suffers from precisely same problems as pdf (which is, after all, a minor variation on the former)

12:52:52 Apocalyptic: yeah, i'm not saying it's saner

12:53:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 288400 @ 0.00027025 = 77.9401 BTC [-] {5}

12:54:33 asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones

12:56:55 asciilifeform: i presently suspect that there are versions of sks (and/or other pgptronics) which will stupidly display a legit fp for the magical keys.

13:04:18 asciilifeform: aaand we're up to 19.

13:05:14 kakobrekla: are you going to automate the display of results or will it be a full time job?

13:05:20 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what do you think.

13:05:30 kakobrekla: you know me, 230v mains.

13:07:32 asciilifeform: and yes, changes are coming.

13:08:12 asciilifeform: (such as 10x speedup, new tests - e.g., pollard-rho; etc)

13:10:47 asciilifeform: other observations - some of the items on the target list are of obvious diddlomatic interest; others are probably humint targets - some of them, rather intriguing, e.g., mr robert j hansen of http://sixdemonbag.org/bio.xhtml

13:11:47 asciilifeform: and the various 'pirate party' folks, perhaps, will take some pleasure in seeing their names in this list.

13:11:51 asciilifeform: and how many of the data points are smokescreen ?

13:12:14 asciilifeform: (picture the stereotypical schoolboy who logs in to change his marks. does he change his and chums' alone? only if idiot)

13:14:48 kakobrekla: nah, taking in account the latest development, cosmic ray can alter all grades from a single student.

13:15:19 asciilifeform: aha

13:26:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00027886 = 16.2297 BTC [+]

13:37:43 mircea_popescu: mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw.

13:37:54 mircea_popescu: any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all.

13:38:28 asciilifeform: mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ?

13:38:41 mircea_popescu: it would seem so.

13:38:44 mircea_popescu: which... yeah.

13:39:00 asciilifeform: it still frags like hell though

13:39:19 mircea_popescu: yeah

13:39:22 asciilifeform: but 'unfrags' to keep pace if you're on a real computer

13:39:40 asciilifeform: this is still not victory, but at least not runaway fandango

13:40:02 mircea_popescu: it's pretty close.

13:40:09 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140245 <<< the correct way to perform such an attack would be to also generate a short keyid collision

13:40:09 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 12:54:33; asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones

13:40:20 mircea_popescu: yes.

13:40:44 asciilifeform: davout: i was wondering same thing, as you might expect. anyone got an ancient copy of pgp for winblows handy ?

13:41:22 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw. << thx!

13:41:24 davout: !s short id

13:41:24 assbot: 1 results for 'short id' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=short+id

13:41:24 mircea_popescu: oh sht

13:41:25 asciilifeform: betcha some of the magickeys show a legit evil32.com

13:41:34 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ? << correct.

13:41:35 mircea_popescu: THATs what needs to be tested. pgpwin and what else was there ?

13:41:38 mircea_popescu: and the apple one

13:41:43 mircea_popescu: we'll get jack with the linux versions

13:41:44 mod6: and 19 broken moduli nao

13:41:53 mod6: wow.

13:42:11 davout: aaand the HN story is at... wait for it... 3 points

13:42:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that the 'apple product safety' thing is a target. that is, folks filing bug reports 'confidentially'

13:42:20 mircea_popescu: davout aww!

13:42:23 mircea_popescu: does it have negvotes ?

13:42:25 asciilifeform: apple, afaik, doesn't sell a pgptron

13:42:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a pgp for mac thing yes

13:42:38 davout: mircea_popescu: i don't know, i really don't hang around hn very much

13:42:45 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ^

13:42:53 asciilifeform: other habitual mac users ?

13:42:59 asciilifeform: diametric ?

13:43:09 davout: mircea_popescu: on osx you can either build GPG, or use this macgpg stuff, i use the former, so can't really help here

13:43:11 *: asciilifeform will ask around

13:43:33 mircea_popescu: https://ssd.eff.org/files/2015/01/20/gpgsuite.png <<<

13:46:02 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all. << nothing specific yet. although the charts are interesting. Process Switches hit 4k before going to zero.

13:47:01 mircea_popescu: davout apparently "it?s impossible to downvote anything on Hacker News". i guess story just isn't interesting.

13:47:29 asciilifeform: should've mentioned japanese toilets, perhaps

13:47:34 asciilifeform: then it'd be a mega-hit.

13:47:53 asciilifeform: as in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-05-2015#1135161

13:47:53 assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 19:23:18; davout: HN now displays "Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013)" higher than this

13:50:29 mircea_popescu: anyway, enough stuff in phuctor's wake to keep dozens of crypto researchers busy for monthys if not years.

13:50:45 mircea_popescu: it's the equivalent of a tractor that just plowed through virgin land. all those delicious worms!

13:54:25 mircea_popescu: davout 138. More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations (fraudsters.com) 3 points by davout 2 hours ago | discuss << it's greyed out, so i guess it got neg'd somehow.

13:54:46 davout: scam

13:56:42 mircea_popescu: cat fraudsters-20may2015.txt | grep -c "more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations"

13:56:42 mircea_popescu: 3826

13:56:54 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't be too worried about it, it's probably on everyone's im

13:58:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 35015 @ 0.00009 = 3.1514 BTC [-]

14:00:55 davout: asciilifeform: any recommendations on general purpose cryptography books?

14:03:09 asciilifeform: davout: there isn't terribly much good material other than the original 'red book' by - yes - schneier

14:03:22 asciilifeform: (before they scooped out his brain)

14:03:36 asciilifeform: 'applied cryptography' 2nd ed.

14:03:38 davout: yeah, i saw this one

14:03:46 asciilifeform: there is another mega-book:

14:03:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57717 @ 0.00027414 = 15.8225 BTC [-]

14:03:57 asciilifeform: crc's 'handbook of applied cryptography'

14:04:17 asciilifeform: http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/hac

14:05:17 asciilifeform: ^ all of the chapters on www

14:05:17 asciilifeform: i have the dead tree, it is very nice.

14:05:17 davout: i can't read books on a screen

14:05:17 asciilifeform: get the tree.

14:05:17 davout: yes

14:05:32 asciilifeform: more or less the entire rest of the library on this subject is either pulp for lusers, or very narrow treatises for specialists

14:05:39 davout: gonna get the schneier one to get started

14:05:50 asciilifeform: (mainly bound journal reprints)

14:06:13 asciilifeform: not a bad place to start. but very bad place to end.

14:06:38 asciilifeform: unrelated, the toilets piece - http://www.tofugu.com/2013/07/22/why-japanese-toilets-are-failing-in-america - is pretty lulzy

14:07:38 mircea_popescu: iguess someone really should write a reasonable, 500 page, college degree (any field, proper) required to read crypto overview

14:07:38 mircea_popescu: it's damned time.

14:07:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from 2013 ?!

14:07:38 asciilifeform: hey it's 'news' !

14:07:38 asciilifeform: hn thinks so, no ?

14:07:44 asciilifeform: unless i somehow picked up wrong link

14:08:04 mircea_popescu: weird.

14:08:06 asciilifeform: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9560985 << right link.

14:09:06 asciilifeform: yes, 2013.

14:09:06 mircea_popescu: i guess they're slow.

14:09:06 mircea_popescu: any bets on whether bock shows up incidentally ?

14:09:20 davout: so wrt the schneier book i see 'second edition', and '20th anniversary edition'

14:10:10 mircea_popescu: get the 90s version.

14:10:20 mircea_popescu: i don't remember what all he retardified post 2004

14:10:20 asciilifeform: davout: i cannot comment re: whether 20th anniversary thing censored any of the goodies from 2nd ed, or added nonsense. but it strikes me as likely.

14:10:35 mircea_popescu: https://media.8ch.net/wx/src/1432062121946-1.png << heh.

14:11:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139493 << you're sensitive :)

14:11:59 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 18:42:29; jurov: both sides of that discussion made me cringe

14:13:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118194 @ 0.0002731 = 32.2788 BTC [-] {2}

14:15:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude that zdnet article was probably the most idiotic thing i read today.

14:15:32 mircea_popescu: what the fuck is everyone involved on ?

14:16:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ru lags as usual, https://threatpost.ru/2015/05/20/otstavit-paniku-4096-bitnye-rsa-klyuchi-ne-skomprometirovany

14:17:00 asciilifeform: 'debunked, rsa not broken' << 'this thread is about kittenz' (TM)

14:17:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they readily admit "we took register piece and translated"

14:17:00 asciilifeform: sop

14:17:04 asciilifeform: at least spelled name this time.

14:17:04 mircea_popescu: is that thing even read ?

14:17:15 asciilifeform: kaspersky? yes, read.

14:17:37 mircea_popescu: threatpost.ru ? 0 comments everywhere, i never heard of it etc.

14:18:10 asciilifeform: before long, herr b?ck will claim that he tipped us off to the mess of diddled keys on sks.

14:18:23 mircea_popescu: "Dennis Fisher ? Michael Mimoso ? Christopher Brook ? Brian Donohue ? Anne Saita."

14:18:33 mircea_popescu: say wut ? seems random spamsite, but in russian.

14:18:51 asciilifeform: tentacle of kaspersky iirc.

14:19:21 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://cacr.uwaterloo.ca/hac << i have this one too lol

14:20:21 asciilifeform: mod6: probably the most 'serious' general-purpose encyclopaedic work on crypto.

14:20:21 mod6: yeah, it's solid

14:20:21 asciilifeform: at least, in the public.

14:20:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/e_kaspersky_ru

14:21:49 asciilifeform: ^ him, i think.

14:21:49 mircea_popescu: aha

14:23:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139507 << "a state of anarchy" is even better. like this glass being full of empty.

14:23:13 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:09:47; decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-05-2015#1138061 < anarchy is retarded

14:23:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139512 << i am too nonconformist to hang out with you guys anymore.

14:23:58 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:13:16; jurov: ANARCHY MUST BE ENFORCED AT ALL COSTS

14:24:31 vampyr: true anarchy comes from within outside!

14:26:39 mod6: :]

14:26:42 mircea_popescu: shit being emo gets boring real quick.

14:27:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139522 << it's a thing, yo. the history of "nordic countries" (post roman empire, because pre that history consisted of being pretty much the pasthun of the time, raped with a sharpened stake covered in burning greek fire) is like so :

14:27:27 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 19:21:04; decimation: mircea seems to credit the german geography for why 'nordic freedom' 'seems to work'. but I suggest it is the people themselves - having been beaten by the romans for centuries, and then forced by the church to mate outside their immediate family, they developed a concept of 'kinship' beyond L2 cousins

14:27:47 mircea_popescu: a) god hath decided to give free herring out in the scania sounds. consequently, swedes now have a kingdom

14:28:50 mircea_popescu: b) god hath moved on, so now five centuries of hard labour and being basically as dirt-poor and pan troglodytus as the russian mujik.

14:29:14 mircea_popescu: c) god comes back in the shape of Kennedy and the Fulda gap. herring is being airlifted into berlin

14:29:32 mircea_popescu: d) god shapeshifts into a large oil find

14:29:41 mircea_popescu: e) that's going away. we are here.

14:30:35 mircea_popescu: for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.

14:30:53 mircea_popescu: predictably, it'll be something utterly retarded like "stalin did it wrong, and marx was nordiccounntries.jpg anyway".

14:31:22 mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea what west germany was thinking when it allowed the scumbags to join civilisation without first hanging every "intellectual" of the eastern school.

14:32:14 mircea_popescu: instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".

14:32:38 mircea_popescu: one only needs to look at the czech commies post ru invasion to understand exactly how abject people actually are.

14:37:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581041 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2014#581042

14:37:15 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:17; asciilifeform: Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conver

14:37:15 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:41:18; asciilifeform: ght run as follows: Today we've got a friendship evening with shit-eaters', or Today we're having some shit-eaters to dinner. Prepare a suitable menu'.'

14:38:10 mircea_popescu: aha.

14:45:12 mircea_popescu: (for the record : the life of a smerd, like that of a kholop, was worth 5 grivna. that's about enough metal to make a decent shovel - roughly speaking the smartphone of the time)

14:52:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139580 << sveet.

14:52:17 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 21:22:35; *: ascii_field pictures slaves sweating

14:52:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139600 << nice going. seems stable enough so far.

14:52:46 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:35:12; williamdunne: Should be 24/7, on an actual server and is cloaked

14:53:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139620 << this.

14:53:20 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:45:37; trinque: I'll negrate people who abuse it

14:54:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139628 << voice is not the criteria jurov

14:54:00 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 22:50:05; jurov: if someone uses temporary voice to resubmit existing deed 1000 times, deedbot has nothing to say about it?

14:54:02 mircea_popescu: !up Helvetik

14:54:16 Helvetik: Hi, Bonjour !

14:54:57 mircea_popescu: hello. who're you ?

14:55:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-05-2015#1139657 << it would, and the whole thing's about bastards in the wild.

14:55:49 assbot: Logged on 19-05-2015 23:33:00; asciilifeform: (this could underplay the effect of 'bastards' however)

14:56:04 Helvetik: Sorry, I juste speak a little english. I'm here for to talk with davout

14:56:37 fluffypony: abonjour

14:56:39 fluffypony: bonjour

14:56:42 fluffypony: that thing

14:56:56 mircea_popescu: aok.

14:57:08 davout: Helvetik: if you really don't speak that much english mebbe join #bitcoin-fr, will be less painful for you :-)

14:57:10 *: fluffypony is on a train to Paris

14:57:14 fluffypony: Helvetik: https://forum.getmonero.org/14/events/277/monero-meetup-paris-france-may-21th-2015

14:58:14 fluffypony: you must attend!

14:58:14 davout: fluffypony: on IRC? nice! still up for the monero meeting tomorrow?

14:58:14 fluffypony: davout: Thalys have on-board wifi :)

14:58:28 davout: fluffypony: the electric plugs are there only for the show on regular french trains

14:58:34 davout: so wifi is nice

14:58:41 fluffypony: lol

14:59:04 mircea_popescu: fluffypony how're you enjoying yurp ?

15:00:19 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: it's been fun

15:00:26 fluffypony: had a meetup in Brussels last night

15:00:27 mircea_popescu: cool.

15:00:31 fluffypony: and a bunch of Romanians came

15:01:38 mircea_popescu: anyone smart ?

15:03:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139680 << speaking of this, am I the only one nonplussed by all this "we use <<best practices>> fixed exponent" bs ? it's an unavoidalbe magic number , okay, but it's tyhe sort that should eminently be a knob for the user. a proper gpg would have e user-settable at the key generation phase (with 65536+1 as a default, sure)

15:03:07 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:29:41; mod6: take a look at this: http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?

15:03:56 mircea_popescu: maybe i wanna use e = 2686977, whose business is it.

15:05:12 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: nah, some interesting guys but they're all just trying to do gambling stuff in Romania and elsewhere

15:05:13 fluffypony: so nothing mindblowing

15:05:20 mircea_popescu: aha.

15:06:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100200 @ 0.00026766 = 26.8195 BTC [-] {2}

15:13:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28369 @ 0.00027388 = 7.7697 BTC [+] {2}

15:24:11 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> maybe i wanna use e = 2686977, whose business is it. << i was looking at this yesterday too, had the same impression. mpi_set_ui( e, 65537);

15:25:50 mod6: by the end of the night i was digging into prime selection. gnupg does fast fermat checks in several places, but im starting to wonder if it wouldn't also be benificial to just check against a list of "Carmichael numbers"

15:30:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95300 @ 0.00028287 = 26.9575 BTC [+]

15:33:55 mod6: lol, or why not just use Miller-Rabin instead?!

15:36:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89500 @ 0.00028501 = 25.5084 BTC [+]

15:38:21 mircea_popescu: that's probabilistic tho

15:39:01 mod6: oh it might actually do this somewhere anyway... there are some references in the docs... although i haven't found it in the code yet.

15:42:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155050 @ 0.00029236 = 45.3304 BTC [+] {4}

15:47:04 mod6: ahh, i see, you gotta pick the bases for a randomly.

15:47:08 mod6: derp

15:48:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33031 @ 0.00028287 = 9.3435 BTC [-]

15:48:38 mats: unemployed life so good

15:48:48 mats: going to a music festival this weekend then san diego

15:49:04 mats: looking forward to pounding trustfund hotties on drugs

15:49:15 mircea_popescu: tape it.

15:50:03 mats: lol.

15:59:18 mod6: maybe its this is_prime function

16:02:24 mod6: lol, they used to have this "rabin-miller" function in the first import of gnupg (as so it's dated) that takes a paremeter "MPI n" and then does nothing and returns 0; http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=blob;f=cipher/primegen.c;h=07d83d8314d8588e4f425a4d171fc41ebb3be4a9;hb=5393dd53c5e06f0458949217317601b2eaed8350G

16:04:21 mircea_popescu: win

16:13:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?

16:18:51 Naphex: mircea_popescu: a good attacker will do discovery, and map everything ahead of time. while there are some pluses into deviating from the toolset. they mostly come from building your own. which is going to end up better fitted for the task

16:18:59 Naphex: and you more knowledgeable into what runs where

16:19:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73749 @ 0.00026665 = 19.6652 BTC [-] {3}

16:25:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026361 = 5.2722 BTC [-]

16:37:49 danielpbarron: !up Hasimir welcome to the biggest* best** irc channel!

16:37:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107950 @ 0.0002616 = 28.2397 BTC [-] {3}

16:42:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103300 @ 0.00025942 = 26.7981 BTC [-] {2}

16:44:59 mircea_popescu: Naphex this was more re nsa diddled hardware.

16:54:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141849 @ 0.00026721 = 37.9035 BTC [+] {2}

16:56:10 Hasimir: danielpbarron, cheers ... you named it assbot?

16:57:02 danielpbarron: no; I think kako did that

16:57:20 Hasimir: well, whatever floats his boat I guess

16:57:36 danielpbarron: I noticed you've got a +4 in my L2 and a 0 in assbot's

16:58:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139716 << yes, but i already sound too paranoid.

16:58:39 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:42:58; decimation: so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade?

16:59:10 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139712 << atm it's just weird. i have nfi what that'd do.

16:59:10 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:41:46; mats: gpg is broke

16:59:19 Hasimir: hmm, oh ratings ... I tend not to rate bots, not even mine

17:00:04 mircea_popescu: !gettrust Hasimir

17:00:06 assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Hasimir: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=Hasimir | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Hasimir/

17:00:23 Hasimir: and this key crap better not invalidate my pyme work

17:00:58 Hasimir: that would be such a let down

17:01:07 mircea_popescu: your what ?

17:01:24 Hasimir: I ported the python bindings for gpgme to py3

17:01:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139728 << there's a reason nobody (tm) is using it.

17:01:31 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:47:39; mod6: holy shit gnupg v2 is bizzare! X_X

17:01:38 mircea_popescu: da fuck knows what's in that code.

17:02:01 mircea_popescu: Hasimir oh.

17:02:31 Hasimir: meh, 2.0 is such a waste of time ... 2.1, however, comes with all manner of entertainment

17:03:10 mircea_popescu: Hasimir mind giving a self-intro for they such as myself that apparently know you from 3rd parties but otherwise not ?

17:03:32 Hasimir: it's currently in a branch of git.gnupg.org/gpgme (to be merged with master when I finish cleaning up the last of the ancient examples)

17:05:16 Hasimir: assuming rsa isn't screwed by then, of course ;)

17:05:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139742 << eh, the mit. about as relevant for tech as uzbekistan for banana pies.

17:05:38 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 00:58:59; pete_dushenski: and in other news, livejasmin is accepting btc, ripple raised $28 mn, and bitcoin is "leaderless" now : http://www.technologyreview.com/news/537486/leaderless-bitcoin-struggles-to-make-its-most-crucial-decision/

17:08:46 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139775 << ahahaha wait seriously !? because of teh rsa ?

17:08:46 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 01:19:10; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so i walk into $redacted on monday and folks compare me to pons & fleischmann. so there'll be teasing, yes.

17:08:49 mircea_popescu: !up Hasimir

17:10:13 Hasimir: no, not seriously, there's a big difference between some bunch of people with crap entropy sources and rsa being borked

17:11:00 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:11:13 ascii_field: Hasimir: who said it was borked ?

17:11:19 ascii_field: other than idiot 'journalists'

17:11:19 Hasimir: though it it turns out to be the "you must all use openpgp cards" crowd I will laugh and laugh ...

17:11:44 *: mircea_popescu has trouble following .

17:12:23 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140455 << was on your site. and also see 'specificity of diddling' threads here.

17:12:23 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 16:13:53; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember where the fuck is that discussion about how a good hardening approach is to deviate from the toolset the attacker might reasonably expect to find is ?

17:12:23 danielpbarron: i have one of those cards; never used the thing

17:12:24 Hasimir: mircea_popescu, a ref. to a particularly hard-line stance taken by some people on gnupg-users

17:12:41 mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes but where ;/

17:12:49 mircea_popescu: gimme an actual keyword

17:13:44 ascii_field: 'how to airgap, practical guide' i think it was.

17:13:59 Hasimir: mircea_popescu, well, listing a hundred and something frequent posters to gnupg-users with the statement "we probably have your private key" does imply a certain degree of breakage

17:14:00 mircea_popescu: o was it.

17:14:08 ascii_field: 'Just as long as you actually know what you're doing, this sort of arrangement increases the costs of attacking your setup astronomically...'

17:14:21 mircea_popescu: ah ty!

17:14:30 ascii_field: but iirc there was another

17:14:44 mircea_popescu: senile dementia is this sad situation when you recall what you said but not exactly nor where.

17:14:50 mircea_popescu: apparently some get it in their 30s ;/

17:15:18 ascii_field: conan doyle in the 'sherlock holmes' stories described this

17:15:30 ascii_field: sorta the mental equivalent of a crowded hard disk. not quite same as senility

17:16:03 mircea_popescu: let us hope so.

17:20:27 Hasimir: mircea_popescu, take up chess, it helps keep you sharp(er)

17:24:06 Hasimir: I returned to playing in order to make a good habit of it by the time senility struck in order to stave it off ... then discovered that years of IT logic paid off in unexpected ways

17:24:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00029399 = 11.9948 BTC [+]

17:26:11 mircea_popescu: meh, chess. i'd rather play hanoi towers.

17:27:00 ascii_field: http://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/36mi86/if_you_are_on_this_list_phuctor_may_have_your_pgp/ << shitsquad pushed 'the button' nulling 'ups' it appears, l0l

17:28:09 mircea_popescu: i didn't know you were on reddit

17:28:31 ascii_field: was ages ago, when it was actually readable ('06-'08 or so)

17:28:42 mircea_popescu: ascii_field got a moment to peer review article ?

17:28:49 ascii_field: aye

17:29:08 ascii_field: out here without keys though

17:30:27 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/1EAGHJ9

17:31:28 mircea_popescu: oh

17:31:28 mircea_popescu: it'll wait.

17:31:36 ascii_field: ok

17:32:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00028091 = 5.6182 BTC [-]

17:42:52 mircea_popescu: "Some widely deployed RSA implementations choke on big RSA public exponents. E.g. the RSA code in Windows (CryptoAPI, used by Internet Explorer for HTTPS) insists on encoding the public exponent within a single 32-bit word; it cannot process a public key with a bigger public exponent."

17:42:55 mircea_popescu: birdy says.

17:43:02 mircea_popescu: ascii_field ^

17:43:04 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

17:43:09 ascii_field: ahahahahhahahaha.

17:43:35 mircea_popescu: i seem to recall seeing a step-by-two dance ? aha ?

17:43:39 ascii_field: anyone know a winblowistic implementation of pgp ? as in, actually using microshit's api

17:43:57 mircea_popescu: our luzers are on windoze 10/10.

17:44:18 ascii_field: well aye, but traditional gpg built for mingw doesn't do this

17:44:46 mircea_popescu: at least not that any of us've noticed.

17:45:12 mircea_popescu: 25 ppm occurences can very well be a tiny pore in an otherwise solid implementation.

17:48:51 ascii_field: the lost world of winblows pgptrons, closed-source crypto, etc. will have to be vivisected, likely

17:50:30 ascii_field: unrelated,

17:50:33 ascii_field: who is https://twitter.com/crypto_zen ?

17:51:36 ascii_field: in other news, herr kaspersky let in comment: https://threatpost.ru/2015/05/20/otstavit-paniku-4096-bitnye-rsa-klyuchi-ne-skomprometirovany/#comment-36991

17:55:07 mircea_popescu: o look at that, quotes me ?!

17:55:08 mircea_popescu: i have nfi.

18:15:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70850 @ 0.00029439 = 20.8575 BTC [+] {3}

18:24:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139915 >> guy's reasonably informed huh.

18:24:52 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 06:57:41; isaackl: And if Balaji is a USG shill he's a damn good actor

18:25:25 ben_vulpes: claims to have read the logs, even!

18:26:32 mircea_popescu: links to mpoe-pr on forum, even.

18:27:02 mircea_popescu: dude, i remember the time back in 2012 when the pressure cooker wasn't on yet and all sorts of people didn't appear retarded.

18:27:18 mircea_popescu: everyone's a dancer while sitting down.

18:29:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8182 @ 0.00028793 = 2.3558 BTC [-]

18:30:39 mike_c: <isaackl> Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more << hm, how does the utility of the F35 compare to how much has been spent on it?

18:31:13 mircea_popescu: is that thing even built yet ?

18:31:46 mircea_popescu: "undergoing testing and final development by the United States"

18:31:49 mircea_popescu: mkay, two weeks.

18:31:54 mike_c: depends what you consider the thing. I mean, an "F35" exists, and some things on it work..

18:33:27 mircea_popescu: o look, total budget intended to pass 1 trn

18:33:50 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:34:07 ascii_field: meanwhile... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/20/us_export_controls_0days

18:35:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55887 @ 0.00028793 = 16.0915 BTC [-]

18:35:07 ben_vulpes: ahaha

18:35:07 ben_vulpes: christ the braindamage.

18:37:13 mircea_popescu: so what, we're not going to allow the us in gossipd ?

18:37:23 ascii_field: in other nyooz, http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.oss.general/16861

18:38:23 mats: mircea_popescu: has been built. lotsa videos around of it doin the hovering trick.

18:38:23 mircea_popescu: heh. it also only has 2 a-a missiles ?

18:38:23 mats: its utilitarian!

18:38:23 mircea_popescu: oic.

18:38:23 mats: does everything and sux at em all.

18:38:34 mircea_popescu: so 2.5k planes of 2 missiles each. the chinese only have like 10k

18:38:51 mircea_popescu: except of course by 10k we mean "can get up in the air at least 10k"

18:39:01 mats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t0v5FIbb68

18:40:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66469 @ 0.00029499 = 19.6077 BTC [+] {2}

18:40:02 mircea_popescu: whereas by 2.5k we mean... uh.

18:40:02 mats: short take-off to hover.

18:40:02 mircea_popescu: maybe i miss something, but why do you want a plane to helicopter ?

18:40:12 ascii_field: for use on carriers ?

18:40:13 mats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW28Mb1YvwY vertical take-off

18:41:13 mats: yeah, carriers and emergency landing zones.

18:41:13 mats: e.g. in the field.

18:41:13 mircea_popescu: but this is a fighter jet, right ?

18:41:13 mircea_popescu: if you stop you're dead anyway

18:41:13 mats: yeah. its stupid. design by committee.

18:41:34 ascii_field: the need for runway is an ancient annoyance to airplane folks

18:41:50 ascii_field: the attempts to do away with it - make sense

18:42:17 mats: osprey's not doing so good so i guess they decided to experiment more with f-35.

18:42:26 ascii_field: (conventional machine on runway is just as vulnerable as 'hoverer')

18:42:32 mircea_popescu: section 3.5 - "some servers in our scans used Java's DSA primes as p,

18:42:33 mircea_popescu: but mistakenly used the DSA group order q in the place of the

18:42:33 mircea_popescu: generator g ... This substitution of q for g is likely due to a

18:42:33 mircea_popescu: usability problem: the canonical ASN.1 representation of

18:42:33 mircea_popescu: Diffie-Hellman key exchange parameters (coming from PKCS#3) is a

18:42:33 mircea_popescu: sequence (p, g), while that of DSA parameters (coming from PKIX) is

18:42:35 mircea_popescu: (p, q, g); we conjecture that the confusion between these formats led

18:42:37 mircea_popescu: to a simple programming error."

18:42:39 mircea_popescu: is this related to mod6 find in any sense ?

18:43:39 ascii_field: not as i understand

18:44:05 ascii_field: (and i'm still at a loss to craft a situation where gpg's p and q will occupy varying number of 'limbs' and lead to catastrophe in the given line)

18:44:21 ascii_field: ^ does not mean that such is impossible

18:45:23 mircea_popescu: "the electronic edge F-35 enjoys over every other tactical aircraft in the world may prove to be more important in future missions than maneuverability" << check it out, it got wifi

18:46:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28165 @ 0.00029553 = 8.3236 BTC [+] {2}

18:46:21 ascii_field: where do horrors like http://blog.offeryour.com/?p=203240 come from ?

18:47:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32485 @ 0.00030253 = 9.8277 BTC [+] {2}

18:48:26 ben_vulpes: re: F-35 << "shuttle" debacle all over again

18:49:43 mircea_popescu: the F-35C taking 43 seconds longer than an F-16 to accelerate from Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2

18:49:46 mircea_popescu: aaaaahhahahaah omfg.

18:49:55 mircea_popescu: so they built a spitfire ?

18:51:30 mircea_popescu: "In March 2013, USAF test pilots, flying with pre-operational software that did not utilize the all-aspect infrared AAQ-37 DAS sensor, noted a lack of visibility from the F-35 cockpit during evaluation flights, which would get them consistently shot down in combat."

18:52:40 mircea_popescu: Defense spending analyst Winslow Wheeler concluded from flight evaluation reports that the F-35A "is flawed beyond redemption"; in response, program manager General Chris Bogdan suggested that pilots worried about being shot down should fly cargo aircraft instead.

18:52:43 mircea_popescu: o this shit's epic.

18:57:29 mats: "lets ignore the guys who've been flying the most dangerous air frames in development for twenty years"

18:57:46 BingoBoingo: Updated http://qntra.net/2015/05/weak-4096-bit-rsa-key-in-strong-set-factored-more-factored-keys-follow/

18:58:46 mike_c: davout:gonna get the schneier one to get started << mod6 told me to read this, it is awesome. I feel stupid for not having read it sooner.

18:58:46 mircea_popescu: "Even in its third iteration, the F-35?s helmet continues to show high false-alarm rates and computer stability concerns, seriously reducing pilots? situational awareness and endangering their lives in combat;"

18:58:57 mircea_popescu: = the closed-source java blob they're using actually reboots in flight

18:59:34 mircea_popescu: nb BingoBoingo

19:01:17 BingoBoingo: The silliest thing about the F-35 clusterfuck is the US had a decent somewhat stealthier plane in the F-22 coming off the line in flyable shape and... It was too expensive. Nao it would have been cheaper.

19:02:06 mircea_popescu: "In all these instances, data reporting and processing rules were changed during the year for no other reason than to paint a more favorable picture. Maintenance problems were determined to be so severe that the F-35 is only able to fly twice a week."

19:02:07 mircea_popescu: dude.

19:02:10 mircea_popescu: no way. come on.

19:02:16 mats: BingoBoingo: well, the F-22 and F-35 do different things.

19:02:18 mircea_popescu: what is this, deliberate slapstick ?

19:02:24 mats: they're intended to fly tandem in combat.

19:03:07 mircea_popescu: mats f22 flies tues, thurs fri, and weekend f35 mon and wed -> tandem ?

19:03:34 BingoBoingo: mats: For some definitions of different (everything the F-35 B&C do-ish)

19:05:38 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

19:09:07 mod6: mike_c: hey! glad you like it :]

19:11:47 davout: mike_c: which edition?

19:11:49 davout: 20th anniversary or 2nd edition?

19:13:33 mike_c: I have 2nd. 20th anniversary looks like just a PR thing? not different content?

19:13:48 mod6: ya 2nd edition

19:16:45 davout: alrighty, it's also cheaper on amzn

19:21:07 *: davout moves to set camp by the mailbox

19:21:17 davout: fluffypony: you in paris nao?

19:29:05 ascii_field: https://www.stlouisfed.org/news-releases/2015/05/18/password-reset-for-st-louis-fed-research-website-user-accounts << l0ltr0n1c

19:30:08 ascii_field: BingoBoingo ^^

19:30:08 jurov: i heard f35 cannot transition from hover to forward movement

19:30:08 jurov: it has to land and reconfigure itself first

19:30:10 ascii_field: jurov: at least downward movement still worx

19:31:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58250 @ 0.00030281 = 17.6387 BTC [+]

19:31:53 jurov: dunno why the haven't attached flea legs instead, would work same as vtol

19:32:18 ascii_field: in other nyooz, https://www.incapsula.com/blog/ddos-botnet-soho-router.html << yes, same ubiquiti that made 'edgerouter'

19:33:18 ascii_field: as in, the one sold to iran 'against sanctions' with boobytrap included

19:33:18 ascii_field: (see log)

19:41:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00029876 = 6.02 BTC [-]

19:45:05 mircea_popescu: also http://40.media.tumblr.com/0ad1205b037f7085346a6ce8ba5b1e9b/tumblr_nolzsi8Iax1skcp7po1_1280.jpg

19:47:29 mike_c: our buddy is leaving! http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/20/new-york-lawsky-departure-idUSL1N0YB1N220150520

19:48:32 mircea_popescu: aww.

19:48:32 mircea_popescu: does it say why ?

19:48:39 mike_c: no.. oddly vague about that. doesn't seem to be a firing.

19:49:05 ben_vulpes: probably wants to spend more time with his family

19:49:22 mircea_popescu: heh.

19:49:27 mats: promoted to head cocksucker. off to DC!

19:49:29 mircea_popescu: !s private eye from:mircea

19:49:30 assbot: 1 results for 'private eye from:mircea' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=private+eye+from%3Amircea

19:49:31 ben_vulpes: ah shit

19:49:35 mike_c: "to start his own legal and consulting firm"

19:49:40 ben_vulpes: s/family/nailgun

19:50:42 mike_c: found the original article on nyt: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/business/dealbook/benjamin-lawsky-to-step-down-as-new-yorks-top-financial-regulator.html

19:53:12 bitstein: "Mr. Lawsky, who has spent his entire two-decade legal career in government, plans to open his own firm and serve as a lecturer at Stanford University, people briefed on the matter said." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/business/dealbook/benjamin-lawsky-to-step-down-as-new-yorks-top-financial-regulator.html

19:54:12 bitstein: whoops, my irc chat wasn't scrolled all the way down

19:54:12 ben_vulpes: hey bitstein

19:54:12 ben_vulpes: http://www.bubblear.com/reminder-get-cash-before-the-weekend/ << lol for all the printing they still can't keep atms full?

19:55:12 bitstein: howdy ben_vulpes

19:55:12 mircea_popescu: it's vtol cash.

19:55:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00029805 = 5.2159 BTC [-]

19:55:15 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:55:19 ascii_field: 'Unpaid Intern is, as the byline properly describes, an unpaid intern. Unpaid intern is a fresh-out-of-school, wide-eyed journalism grad who thinks one day they will make it to the New York Times. In the meantime they are stuck here, so they better get used to it.'

19:56:38 ascii_field: waitasec

19:56:38 scoopbot_revived: St Louis Federal Reserve Bank DNS Hijacked Last Month http://qntra.net/2015/05/st-louis-federal-reserve-bank-dns-hijacked-last-month/

19:56:42 bitstein: "Democratic state Rep. Senfronia Thompson criticized the company by saying that 'it would have been wiser if Mr. Tesla had sat down with the car dealers first.' But there is no 'Mr. Tesla' involved in the company, which is named after the late inventor Nikola Tesla and is founded and run by Elon Musk." https://fortune.com/2015/05/18/tesla-texas/

19:57:42 ascii_field: why that thing was in english ?

19:57:42 BingoBoingo: !b 2

19:57:43 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04FK33X.txt )

19:57:43 ascii_field: the 'bubblear' link, i mean

19:57:52 ben_vulpes: ascii_field: because i'm an esl derp

19:58:12 ascii_field: but, for whom was it posted ?

19:58:57 mircea_popescu: bitstein honestly, the blowing up of the entire "car dealers" bs is pretty much the only thing i actually like about mr tesla.

19:59:20 BingoBoingo: I kinda prefer Tesla's earthquake machine

20:00:27 bitstein: I liked Mr. Tesla's pigeon: https://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/images/pv_pig02.jpg

20:01:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13754 @ 0.00029429 = 4.0477 BTC [-]

20:06:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.0003002 = 41.9379 BTC [+] {3}

20:08:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47999 @ 0.00029429 = 14.1256 BTC [-]

20:11:35 mats: fun fact: windows 8.1 will sometimes triple fault when bugchecking when a kernel debugger is attached

20:14:17 davout: can someone explain to me how i'm able to malloc into existence more than 1tb, fill the first byte with some random int, and have valgrind report the massive allocated space. all this with a whopping 4gb ram and 512gb hdd?

20:14:45 davout: "in use at exit: 1,155,346,237,534 bytes in 1,500 blocks" <<< oO

20:15:17 ascii_field: davout: iirc he was tracking whole box, not bitcoind per se

20:15:28 mircea_popescu: notrly valgrind's problem, this. if system reports it as allocated, it's allocated as far as its concerned

20:15:33 mircea_popescu: what kernel is this ?

20:15:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134042 @ 0.000289 = 38.7381 BTC [-] {4}

20:15:43 davout: it's on osx

20:16:01 Apocalyptic: lol

20:16:02 davout: fucking around with C, this confuses me

20:16:03 mircea_popescu: prolly some osx cleverness ?

20:16:08 davout: mebbe

20:17:12 davout: i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet

20:17:47 mircea_popescu: ascii_field : http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/89713/offline-rsa-strong-prime-test-similar-to-phuctor << shilling intensifies!

20:18:47 mircea_popescu: nao, linking "phuctor" anchor to usg-replacement.

20:18:47 ascii_field: 'no real world impact'

20:18:47 ascii_field: tr0l0l0l

20:20:34 Apocalyptic: mircea, that's hilarious

20:22:22 ben_vulpes: <davout> i'm afraid if i try on an ec2 box i'll accidentally break the internet << "we can therefore we must"

20:22:31 davout: lol

20:23:19 mircea_popescu: !up Landgull

20:23:40 Landgull: Oh, thank you. I don't really have anything to say, though, I'm here to listen.

20:23:46 mircea_popescu: cool.

20:24:21 Apocalyptic: anyway "factored" in this sense doesn't mean much

20:25:31 mircea_popescu: which sense ?

20:26:14 Apocalyptic: in the sense of finding a prime factor of a modulus that has more than 2

20:26:40 Apocalyptic: I mean you can get a standard 4096-bit sane RSA key, multiply N by 3 and there you go

20:26:58 *: mircea_popescu is not following.

20:27:01 Apocalyptic: someone "factors" it, finds the 3, but the key is still as strong as the sane one you started with

20:27:32 mircea_popescu: well, it's complicated.

20:27:36 mircea_popescu: suppose the exponent was 3.

20:27:44 Apocalyptic: public exponent or private ?

20:27:49 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

20:27:53 ascii_field: ty mircea_popescu

20:28:09 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's latest article to learn how the bulk of the booby keys were generated

20:28:13 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic iirc shcneier actually was recommending e=3 (d is the private traditionally)

20:28:20 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, I will

20:28:29 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: you can actually create them on your own, given the info

20:28:41 Apocalyptic: i'm just commenting on the first invalid subkey that was discussed

20:28:43 ascii_field: the result is essentially same as using a random integer as a modulus

20:28:57 ascii_field: i.e., likely to be pollard-rho-able and/or lenstra-able.

20:29:10 ascii_field: conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime.

20:29:15 ascii_field: i certainly have not tested for this.

20:30:00 Apocalyptic: <ascii_field> conceivably some of the resulting moduli are even... prime. // would be trivial to check

20:30:35 ascii_field: aha

20:30:41 ascii_field: but the reason why malefactor did this 'random' bit,

20:30:54 ascii_field: is almost certainly because statistically - these are -easy- to break apart.

20:31:07 ascii_field: and give some plausible deniability, as we saw, at least works on idiots

20:31:13 ascii_field: 'cosmic rays', 'bad blocks on disks'

20:31:36 Apocalyptic: anyway mircea it was just to say that in this case I would call it factor only if modulus is totally broken into primes, something i've referred as full factoring, otherwise not much you can do

20:32:09 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: properly lenstra-ing these is certainly on the agenda

20:32:12 ascii_field: but not #1

20:33:02 Apocalyptic: (note that this isn't even stricly a RSA key anymore)

20:33:20 Apocalyptic: *strictly

20:33:36 ascii_field: violates every assumption behind hardness of rsa, yes

20:33:44 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, ok, would love to compare the results when you're done, i'm throwing some stuff at it atm

20:33:45 ascii_field: which was the intent of whoever crafted it, yes.

20:33:52 ascii_field: neato

20:35:52 ascii_field: http://security.stackexchange.com/a/89718/76928

20:36:52 ascii_field: for what it's worth

20:37:41 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, of the 19 broken moduli so far how many are actually valid subkeys ?

20:38:31 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: at least two, iirc, had valid sigs. The remainder divide into ones with invalid selfsigs and ones with absent ones entirely (stripped)

20:38:38 ascii_field: i will do a proper tally shortly

20:38:56 ascii_field: incidentally you can run the heuristic finder yourself

20:39:07 ascii_field: comment out the bit with 'giant exponents'

20:39:18 ascii_field: (these are rampant, >1300 instances alone)

20:41:05 scoopbot_revived: frantic activity as a defense against impotence - with poop! http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/05/20_frantic-activity-as-a-defense-against-impotence-with-poop.html

20:41:12 ascii_field: at the moment, i would like to collect a sample of material signed with one of the -legit- keys for which a 'magic' key exists

20:41:38 ascii_field: and see what happens when one actually tries to verify the signature with 'magic' key (and its bizarre composite mega-exponent) as reference

20:42:01 ascii_field: example: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=lou%40ece.cmu.edu&op=index

20:43:01 ascii_field: top result is 'magic'

20:43:01 hanbot: how do you know you're even seeing all/most of the magic keys? maybe they were not intended to show up in public servers, and end there through some error/leak

20:43:01 ascii_field: next one (also 2-02) is legit key

20:43:01 ascii_field: hanbot: if it isn't on sks, it isn't really public is it

20:43:01 hanbot: exactly

20:43:01 hanbot: maybe this is the iceberg tip of some sort of process not really intended to be visible

20:43:01 ascii_field: afaik the only possible point of crafting these -was- to disseminate them publicly as spurious copies of the real thing

20:45:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147200 @ 0.00028083 = 41.3382 BTC [-] {2}

20:50:45 mircea_popescu: hanbot seems improbable.

20:51:05 ascii_field: hanbot: and clearly the process, whatever it was, did not want to be found. but it does appear to consist of fucking with purported -public- keys and therefore intrinsically findable.

20:51:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76542 @ 0.00028208 = 21.591 BTC [+]

20:52:19 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic well, "totally broken". depends what you're trying to do and so on. having a known small factor is already breakage

20:52:31 mircea_popescu: ie, you wouldn't use that key.

20:52:51 ascii_field: given as the bulk of the samples consist of the owner's own moduli with every other 32-bit word doubled (overwriting its neighbour) - the amount of 'crafting' appears to be minimal. in this particular case (there were other breakable keys.)

20:52:54 hanbot: hm.

20:53:16 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, it is breakage in the sense it reduces the apparent security, the key may still be pretty much alright

20:53:16 ascii_field: thing about small factors is that we have them here because the moduli are essentially random shots in the integer dark.

20:53:30 ascii_field: how likely is 'all right' key when shooting at random ?

20:53:30 Apocalyptic: (if intentionnaly made this way)

20:53:42 mircea_popescu: i dun see this argument.

20:53:49 mircea_popescu: anyway, you could just run a probabilistic test on it.

20:53:52 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, ok, let's start again

20:53:54 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: read mircea_popescu's article where litmus.py appears.

20:54:27 mircea_popescu: !up Hasimir

20:54:27 Apocalyptic: let's say I take the two secret primes of my present key

20:54:29 mircea_popescu: go ahead

20:54:36 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic aha.

20:54:56 Hasimir: well, let's see there's Rob Hansen's key

20:54:58 Apocalyptic: I multiply then the modulus N by 3 (or any other small prime, the value doesn't matter)

20:55:03 Hasimir: RSA flaw?

20:55:11 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done

20:55:13 Hasimir: his key is DSA2 & El-Gamal

20:55:18 Apocalyptic: I submit it to phuctor, its screams "Moduli factored !"

20:55:25 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: bugger took every other 32-bit word and copied over neighbour.

20:55:26 Apocalyptic: but the key is still as strong as my original

20:55:35 mircea_popescu: Hasimir "Rob Hansen" doesn't appear on the page ?

20:55:35 Apocalyptic: <ascii_field> Apocalyptic: except that this is not how it was done // exactly

20:55:48 Hasimir: no. 92 & 93

20:56:03 Hasimir: in Stan's list of "we have your private keys"

20:56:05 mircea_popescu: aha

20:56:10 Apocalyptic: i'm just trying to show that finding a small factor is not inherently breaking the key

20:56:11 mircea_popescu: lemme fish them out for you a sec.

20:56:16 ascii_field: Hasimir: whos key is this

20:56:27 ascii_field: Hasimir: we only see it here if it had one or more rsa subkeys.

20:56:29 Hasimir: rjh@sixdemonbag

20:56:32 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes.

20:56:36 mircea_popescu: this isn't the assumption here

20:56:46 mircea_popescu: ascii_field ima get the key one sec.

20:56:49 Hasimir: it has an rsa signing subkey

20:56:55 ascii_field: Hasimir: there we go.

20:56:59 ascii_field: so that'd be it

20:57:00 Hasimir: but the rest of it isn't

20:57:02 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, as the poeple whose key you're listing probably didn't craft it this way, it's very probable that it's further broken, yes

20:57:09 mircea_popescu: Hasimir doh.

20:57:14 mircea_popescu: well, it would be the rsa wouldn't it.

20:57:19 ascii_field: Hasimir: we don't deal with the rest of it.

20:57:31 Hasimir: which means no getting the private cert or decryption

20:57:31 Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> Apocalyptic finding a small factor is not inherently breaking a specially crafted key that was made to have that one small factor, yes. // this is all i was arguing :)

20:57:45 ascii_field: the experiment specifically concerns moduli, not keys. a key contains zero or more rsa moduli

20:57:46 Hasimir: ascii_field, just the signing subkey?

20:58:03 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic well sure, theoretical theory. but if you run a factorizing algo on any of the keys you'll see they break apart.

20:58:20 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

20:58:22 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: there is a reason why generating proper rsa keys is cpu-expensive

20:58:27 Apocalyptic: I know

20:58:48 Hasimir: ascii_field, then claiming to have derived the private key is a wee bit disingenuous

20:58:59 Apocalyptic: and yes if found in the wild, the assumption you are making is a safe assumption

20:59:09 ascii_field: barring some entirely unknown and very interesting number-theoretical result, the word-doubling is overwhelmingly likely to yield an 'easy' modulus.

20:59:17 mircea_popescu: Hasimir wouldja quote the claim you speak of ?

20:59:29 Hasimir: sure one tic

20:59:46 Hasimir: "Are you on this list ? We probably have your private key"

20:59:48 ascii_field: Hasimir: private key naturally would correspond to the phony key

20:59:54 mircea_popescu: Hasimir so what's disingenuous ?

21:00:33 Hasimir: alright, if it's not, what method did you use to crack el-gamal?

21:00:35 ascii_field: and go apply pollard rho, and lenstra, you will have the private. you don't even need us for this

21:00:42 ascii_field: Hasimir: we don't deal in el gamal!

21:00:44 ascii_field: or dsa

21:00:45 mircea_popescu: it's a rsa factorization service.

21:00:53 ascii_field: or '22: proprietary reserved algo'

21:00:56 Hasimir: which is the point

21:00:57 ascii_field: (yes, lots of these. wtf)

21:01:06 mircea_popescu: Hasimir i do not see this point.

21:01:33 mircea_popescu: the way text works is not that reader is free to make whatever assumptions he wishes and it is the responsibility of the text to explicitly dispel them

21:01:34 Hasimir: ok, let me see if I'm reading the article correctly

21:01:49 mircea_popescu: the way text works is that the reader has the job of forming a mental image that does not contradict the text.

21:02:06 Hasimir: you only deal with rsa, you only claim to have rsa priv keys, but you list dsa/elgamal keys as broken ...

21:02:18 mircea_popescu: i dun see dsa/elgamal keys were listedf.

21:02:33 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: he appears to be taking issue with interchangeable use of 'keys' and 'moduli'

21:02:34 Hasimir: this one: 0x23806BE5D6B98E10

21:02:42 mircea_popescu: in general, one's at liberty to create a Patented Leather Assymetric Key and give it his name

21:02:51 mircea_popescu: if he also has a rsa key by the same name, he will be in the list of rsa keys.

21:03:15 mircea_popescu: ascii_field except a modulus does not exist outside of a key.

21:03:36 ascii_field: Hasimir: understand, someone can create a key containing an rsa modulus of the kind described here using a modified copy of your, e.g., el gamal, key

21:03:40 ascii_field: and it will show on our list

21:03:50 Hasimir: ah

21:03:53 mircea_popescu: pgp has no way to enforce names

21:04:00 Hasimir: true

21:04:03 mircea_popescu: you can create a key for obama and sks will list "obama's" key.

21:04:05 mircea_popescu: what's one to do ?

21:04:20 Hasimir: as all the president@whitehouse.gov ones prove

21:04:25 mircea_popescu: now, of that list, at least some are thoroughly broken

21:04:41 mircea_popescu: two examples are given there, each with two moduli with 8-12 digit factos known

21:04:45 mircea_popescu: some others are yet unknown

21:04:49 ascii_field: Hasimir: the shenanigans exposed appear to have an intent which includes - but not necessarily limited to - passing off spurious rsa keys for various names

21:05:16 Hasimir: which is why you need to specify the key ids, otherwise you're spreading unnecessary panic

21:05:16 mircea_popescu: hence "probably". and hence http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140223

21:05:16 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 11:53:36; *: mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.

21:05:36 ascii_field: Hasimir: so far each of the cases i have examined in detail had -at least one- legit rsa modulus in subkeys

21:06:01 mircea_popescu: Hasimir you have read the paragraph at the beginning yes ?

21:06:10 ascii_field: and the panic is entirely the work of the enemy, who is passing around the idiot strawman that 'rsa was broken. oh wait, no it wasn't! disregard the whole thing!'

21:06:18 Hasimir: yes

21:07:16 ascii_field: btw, re: random numbers as moduli: https://primes.utm.edu/howmany.html#pi_def

21:08:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00027831 = 4.8008 BTC [-] {2}

21:08:17 ascii_field: ^ mandatory

21:08:17 Hasimir: alright then, take a crack at mine, same one as used with -otc and in my /ns info

21:08:17 mircea_popescu: Hasimir if it's been already processed you can see yourself the result

21:08:17 mircea_popescu: if not, it will be

21:08:22 Hasimir: it has been, but reprocessing hasn't occurred in 2 years

21:08:29 mircea_popescu: wut ?!

21:08:43 Hasimir: I checked it in 2013

21:08:58 ascii_field: Hasimir: add it to the queue

21:09:04 mircea_popescu: i have no idea what you're saying.

21:09:16 Apocalyptic: phuctor was live in 2013 ?

21:09:30 mircea_popescu: yes, as it happens, oct.

21:09:39 Apocalyptic: aha

21:09:42 mircea_popescu: Hasimir just put the pubkey in the box and it'll tell you if it has or hasn't

21:10:27 ascii_field: i will be very surprised when a 'proper' pubkey that some fella actually has on his own box, fails the test

21:10:28 mircea_popescu: ascii_field some that had only broken moduli, in pairs.

21:10:58 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: quite a few. which is consistent with the 'random bits make terrible rsa moduli' thing.

21:11:08 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:11:19 ascii_field: were all of them even odd, lol

21:11:24 mircea_popescu: yes

21:11:29 ascii_field: at least this.

21:11:33 mircea_popescu: we blessfully don't have 2~!11 as a factor yet

21:11:39 mircea_popescu: that'd be the sadness of all time.

21:11:51 danielpbarron: my key won't retest http://nosuchlabs.com/redo/95766AA607AF0D2958AD7EF0F23B26DDC565F10A2C8012715B137E6459C63C4B?

21:12:51 mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as a retest

21:12:51 mircea_popescu: oh, is it rebuilding the P huh ascii_field

21:12:51 ascii_field: aha

21:13:02 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron server's atm busy with a large computation which is why it's not answering ya

21:15:03 Hasimir: ascii_field, where's the code you use to run these tests anyway?

21:15:30 ascii_field: Hasimir: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/werker.c

21:16:30 Hasimir: cool

21:16:30 ascii_field: very simple, but works.

21:16:40 Hasimir: sqlite3 db full of keys ... ouch

21:17:04 Hasimir: though probably better than the sks solution

21:17:56 ascii_field: Hasimir: whole thing was ~2 days' work

21:18:01 ascii_field: so not optimal by any measure

21:18:40 Hasimir: yeah, you might want to look at the keybox (.kbx) format used in gpg 2.1, designed to improve lookup speed with larger keyrings

21:19:10 Hasimir: though you'll lose all the v2 keys

21:19:38 ascii_field: no thanks.

21:19:48 Hasimir: but then we should probably lose them anyway

21:20:01 ascii_field: ?

21:20:20 Hasimir: ok, these weak ones you found, have you identified a common generation program?

21:20:30 mircea_popescu: nope.

21:20:38 mircea_popescu: they're not even all in the same class.

21:20:43 Hasimir: and v2 keys == pgp 2.3 to pgp 2.6(i)

21:20:45 mircea_popescu: at least two, maybe three different types so far

21:21:08 Hasimir: do they all have subkeys or not?

21:21:15 ascii_field: Hasimir: read carefully. we do not know where they came from. but the largest class we identified so far appears to consist of carefully crafted spurious keys, made with a particular transformation of original legit ones.

21:21:15 mircea_popescu: all what ?

21:21:42 Hasimir: well, that list 160 reads like regular posters to the enigmail mailing list

21:21:48 Hasimir: or possibly gnupg-users

21:21:52 mircea_popescu: tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning.

21:21:55 Hasimir: I recognise most of the names

21:21:59 mircea_popescu: they're all keys. how you package them is irrelevant

21:22:15 mircea_popescu: Hasimir i am aware.

21:27:52 trinque: heh sqlite always comes up as "not fast" in conversation

21:27:57 trinque: I wonder if anyone ever tests this hypothesis

21:28:10 ascii_field: trinque: was going for 'simple' rather than 'fast'

21:28:57 trinque: sure, I am saying I've personally never found sqlite3 to be slow

21:29:24 trinque: probably comes with comparisons to key-value stores that do barely anything aside retrieve by key

21:29:46 mircea_popescu: trinque seems it has issues wiht locking

21:31:55 trinque: ah yeah I guess it's bad at concurrent writes; that's fair

21:32:34 jurov: someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation << guess mr.zimmermann overengineered it and then left to rot

21:32:42 jurov: GNU picked it up then

21:33:08 fluffypony: davout: yes - had supper at Le Keller

21:33:10 trinque: https://www.sqlite.org/wal.html << I think this helps

21:34:10 fluffypony: which was very nice

21:34:10 davout: fluffypony: neat! never been there

21:34:15 trinque: !up Hasimir

21:34:32 davout: fluffypony: what are you keeping yourself busy with tomorrow? visiting?

21:34:55 fluffypony: I need to tweak the presentation a bit, so the wife will go to the spa for a couple of hours

21:35:08 davout: ah you took her with, nice!

21:35:12 fluffypony: and then we'll probably do the Louvre because we haven't been in AGES

21:35:44 davout: it's pretty massive

21:36:12 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:36:14 fluffypony: yeah I know, but neither of us are terribly au fait with it, so we'll just dip our toe in;)

21:36:19 ascii_field: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=zarghani.s%40gmail.com&op=index

21:37:19 ascii_field: << example of someone for whom only breakable key is on sks

21:47:46 Apocalyptic: ascii_field, this may be more affordable to fully factor than HPA invalid's

21:49:05 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: as a general rule, an rsa modulus generated without regard to rules (primality testing, pollard-rho, the lot) is cheap to factor.

21:49:54 ascii_field: the authors of the fakes also relied on the 'plausible deniability' of using random crud rather than proper mods

21:49:56 Apocalyptic: well given what i've tried on that HPA's i would not fully concur here

21:50:37 ascii_field: for all we know, this is a straight 'dos' and no one actually knew the privates to these

21:51:00 ascii_field: and the purpose was to force the victims to revert to plaintext

21:51:03 Apocalyptic: that's a possibility yes

21:51:24 ascii_field: there is also mircea_popescu's 'magic flag' hypothesis.

21:51:31 Apocalyptic: I guess maybe e isn't even prime with phi(N) on those

21:51:46 Apocalyptic: and as such there is no private to even begin with

21:51:48 ascii_field: Apocalyptic: look at the e

21:51:53 Apocalyptic: haven't looked

21:54:03 jurov: 's got a "new" n900... after just a few hours it's clear why nokia had to be gutted

21:57:12 ascii_field: jurov: ?

21:57:46 jurov: ascii_field: you ever had it?

21:57:50 ascii_field: nope

21:58:02 jurov: it's..debian

21:58:46 jurov: true one, not something android-bastardized

21:58:54 ascii_field: what of the baseband ?

21:59:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @ 0.00027506 = 30.1741 BTC [-] {3}

21:59:52 jurov: i guess it's a device osmocom-gsm hackers use

22:00:24 jurov: but if i'm ever getting into such uber-illegal territory, i'm not advertising it here

22:03:51 jurov: i stand corrected, it's not this one

22:04:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76410 @ 0.00027383 = 20.9234 BTC [-]

22:27:09 mircea_popescu: jurov something like that.

22:28:17 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic what have you tried ?

22:29:29 Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, somehow pgpdump refuses to print info about the invalid subkey, or at least I don't see the keyid referenced the way I see it for the master key and the signature packets

22:29:48 Apocalyptic: I suppose it's the same as the master one though, so this situation can't happen since e is itself a prime

22:30:48 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, rho pollard plus countless iterations of ECM for reasonable bounds assuming there is a 20-30 prime digit factor in the modulus reminder

22:31:13 Apocalyptic: I guess i'm gonna have to keep increasing it for a while

22:31:20 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic you know it'd be halpful if youactually counted them / documented the attempts

22:31:32 Apocalyptic: I do count them

22:31:58 Apocalyptic: I will post a report if it leads to something, or if somebody wants it

22:33:04 mircea_popescu: well how many is countless ?

22:33:41 Apocalyptic: around 3000 probabilistic runs

22:33:50 mircea_popescu: and all for 10-20 digit ?

22:34:57 Apocalyptic: this should find any prime factor under *30* digits even

22:35:27 Apocalyptic: after 430 runs the probability of error is something like 1/e if I remember and if this doc is correct

22:37:35 mircea_popescu: depends a lot on the rng too

22:38:02 Apocalyptic: well that's why you run it multiple times

22:38:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57490 @ 0.00026437 = 15.1986 BTC [-]

22:38:34 mircea_popescu: no, you run it multiple times because it's probabilistic.

22:38:39 mircea_popescu: that doesn't fix a bad rng

22:38:51 Apocalyptic: oh, you mean that

22:38:53 mircea_popescu: (not saying it's likely the case, anyway)

22:39:09 Apocalyptic: yeah probably not

22:39:35 mircea_popescu: mind trying lenstra ?

22:40:03 mircea_popescu: eh nm you did say ecm.

22:40:51 Apocalyptic: yeah, afaik ecm is lenstra

22:41:04 mircea_popescu: for some reason i was thinking you're doing rabin-miller

22:41:19 Apocalyptic: isn't that just a primality test ?

22:41:38 mircea_popescu: it is yeah. i need moar sleeps.

22:42:10 mircea_popescu: (it does sometimes yield a factor, but not reliably)

22:43:48 mircea_popescu: anyway. laters all!

22:44:54 Apocalyptic: laters

22:46:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12969 @ 0.0002807 = 3.6404 BTC [+]

23:02:17 danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/601159325973946368

23:03:15 danielpbarron: Bram Cohen: It's difficult for me to convey just how profoundly idiotic the BitShare mining chip is.

23:12:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7636 @ 0.0002807 = 2.1434 BTC [+]

23:34:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114739 @ 0.00027428 = 31.4706 BTC [-]

23:59:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103500 @ 0.00026787 = 27.7245 BTC [-] {3}