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Transcript for 20-07-2015, 1296 lines:

00:00:03 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-09-2014#822058 < and often a 'populist' megalomaniac

00:00:03 assbot: Logged on 07-09-2014 20:39:31; decimation: no, but my point is that destroying the structure of power typically empowers some megalomaniac to step in and fix things

00:00:22 decimation: I was thinking about this for awhile today, and about what would have happened if hitler had stopped with poland and consolidated power

00:02:12 decimation: it's pretty likely we would have germany+us+ussr today, or at least they would have been a 'triumvirate' during the cold war

00:02:55 decimation: mod6: did you try removing that line from the makefile.unix that reference the empty dir?

00:03:28 mod6: there's a bunch of lines that reference it actually, and no, i was hoping to get rid of these barnacles without having to change other files.

00:05:11 decimation: I suspect you are gonna need a shell script, like ascii suggested.

00:05:58 mircea_popescu: decimation dubiuous one could have "consolidated". that's what the soviet union tried. it collapsed. that's what the eu tried. it's collapsing.

00:05:59 mod6: yeah. well, i think i'll just prune by hand if I do at all. like i was saying earlier, im a bit paranoid now that some script might later accidentially remove the dirs if they're rendered empty.

00:06:09 mircea_popescu: once the war machine stops, all the fringe cocksuckers congeal.

00:06:35 mircea_popescu: the only way poland was worth holding for germany is if they were going into the ukraine. and ukraine in turn, going to moscow. etc.

00:06:42 mod6: gonna have to test prune by hand, and then test and ensure that these empty dirs will persist indifiniately.

00:06:46 mircea_popescu: otherwise, on their own merits, nobody wants to hold the lands of orcs.

00:06:47 mod6: *indefiniately

00:06:52 mircea_popescu: indefinitely ?

00:07:05 mod6: yah that :]

00:07:07 mircea_popescu: :)

00:07:12 decimation: mircea_popescu: alright, perhaps the sudetenland (sorry jurov)

00:07:24 mod6: don't challenge me to a spelling contest, i'll lose.

00:07:43 mircea_popescu: so a slightly larger germany. still no different from the previous situation.

00:08:08 mircea_popescu: as hitler correctly figured out (and plainly said so) , the only future of germany as a nation lay in the destruiction of britain as an empire.

00:08:17 decimation: yeah, but the main point is that hitler was a populist dictator who actually delievered on his promises to a great degree

00:08:19 mircea_popescu: this turned out to be more expensive than originally thought, but it was done neverthjeless.

00:08:39 mircea_popescu: mno. the notion that hitler was populist is akin to the notion that obama is democratic.

00:08:48 mircea_popescu: sure, the turdmeisters in charge of the herd sell it thus.

00:08:56 mircea_popescu: they'd sell it any other way, makes no difference.

00:09:15 mircea_popescu: they put butter in blue or red or yellow packaging according to what the focus group says. you think butter is "red" ? butter is butter.

00:09:50 mircea_popescu: nobody yet stopped to consider "the real color of butter" for packaging purposes afaik,

00:10:04 decimation: all that might be true, but the nazi platform appeared to mostly be "give to the people all the things" (minus jews, foreigners, etc)

00:10:42 mircea_popescu: you can quote chapter and verse for this notion or are merely relying on what us agitprop and clueless derps like that mcdowell woman in that eddie murphy movie told you ?

00:11:21 decimation: umm, our discussion about this a few nights ago? http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/17/turns-out-you-wanted-hitler-after-all/

00:11:23 assbot: Turns out you wanted Hitler after all. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1fgZ1XL )

00:11:25 mircea_popescu: (great film btw, murphy is the heir to the throne of zamunda, pursues some ugly nigglet in queens. who doesn't like him because he's rich, and to their assheads at the time in the 80s this is a flaw)_

00:11:28 decimation: "7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich."

00:11:47 decimation: "9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties."

00:11:56 mircea_popescu: still a stretch neh ?

00:12:42 decimation: "

00:12:43 decimation: 13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

00:12:47 decimation: 14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

00:13:02 decimation: what about hitler is 'against populism'?

00:13:34 mircea_popescu: fuhrerprinzip, for one.

00:13:47 mircea_popescu: i don't recall any sort of voting being held on when to attack, soviet style.

00:14:54 mircea_popescu: not that the guy is pointedly "against populism", admitting for the sake of argument that tyhe concept even holds meaning outside of its proper reference (it is after all a notion of democracy). but then again the bar for "not being x" is not "being patently against x"

00:15:20 mircea_popescu: ("you don't love me anymore" "sure i do" "prove it" "fuck you.")

00:16:01 mircea_popescu: s/fuck you/you made the statement, you prove it/ for any unschooled gals in the audience.

00:16:02 decimation: it's a fair point, he probably didn't believe it in his heart of hearts

00:16:15 mircea_popescu: he didn't act in a supportive manner throughout.

00:17:16 decimation: at any rate, my original point is that it would have been interesting to see german v. the world in an economic war rather than military

00:18:37 decimation: after all, britian capitulated rather quickly to us demands for it to 'decolonize'

00:18:42 mircea_popescu: specifically re 13 : if isis submits a bid to buy out raytheon, this proposal will not go to the shareholders. it will go to a so called "anti trust regulator" or w/e, which will reject it.

00:18:48 mircea_popescu: this is not populism, this is plain old nationalism.

00:19:09 mircea_popescu: only because germany was feigning death at the time.

00:19:26 mircea_popescu: and because exhausted by a decade of war etc

00:19:46 mircea_popescu: otherwise, see orwell : london in 1930 was entering its second decade of pretending ww1 never happenbed anmd "britannia forever"

00:20:32 decimation: yes that's true, also see this http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/what-im-re-reading-2/

00:20:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1fgZR6T )

00:23:11 mircea_popescu: anyway, zee germans have gained a very petty habit of being miserable to the people they owe gratitude to. no hitler statues, put that kohl fellow in jail...

00:23:29 mircea_popescu: then they sprout cheeky teenagers with "nordic system" delusions. won't fill the void.

00:24:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206406 << dun be hatin' on ma control panels!

00:24:36 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:09:25; decimation: also, I don't know what the 'web 2.0' thing he posted a picture of is? is that some kind of dns control panel?

00:25:04 decimation: hehe jurov explained it

00:25:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206415 << gotta get teh ips somehow neh.

00:25:15 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:16:30; decimation: the amusing thing to me is that the 'ddos cannon' is using dns

00:25:32 decimation: yeah, and your 'gambit' confirmed that they do strictly this

00:25:36 decimation: which is valuable to know

00:25:45 mircea_popescu: many things valuable.

00:25:54 mircea_popescu: nuked the parody site rightr off the net, but wh stands.

00:26:04 mircea_popescu: i think they spent a coupla million real dollars on that gateway

00:26:09 mircea_popescu: god only knows what the bill actually was.

00:26:22 decimation: which one? the akamai host you linked?

00:26:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206424 << he has a point there.

00:26:27 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:25:34; jurov: and routers verifying sigs for 1e6 packets/sec , rly?

00:27:03 mircea_popescu: decimation is 23.45.18.92 akamai ?

00:27:19 mircea_popescu: heh so it is.

00:27:23 decimation: 92.18.45.23.in-addr.arpa. 300INPTRa23-45-18-92.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.

00:27:36 mircea_popescu: well that makes sense then. i was impressed originally.

00:27:53 decimation: which is why it didn't go down, they did spend $x mil, possibly $bil

00:27:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, all this is (as you prolly expect it from shit i do) very much experimental. trying to actually make a site where users can safely use their ips.

00:28:06 mircea_popescu: kinda informative attempt.

00:28:24 decimation: https://blog.cloudflare.com/a-brief-anycast-primer/ < cloudflare describes how they do it

00:28:25 assbot: A Brief Primer on Anycast ... ( http://bit.ly/1fh0oG0 )

00:28:41 decimation: they carefully craft routing tables with all their peers so that they can have multiple hosts with the same ip

00:28:53 mircea_popescu: "But fresh data show that top schools are turning out black and Hispanic graduates with tech degrees at rates significantly higher than they are being hired by leading tech firms.

00:28:53 mircea_popescu: Last year, black students took home 4.1 percent of the bachelor?s degrees in computer science"

00:28:56 mircea_popescu: you gotta be shitting me.

00:29:05 mircea_popescu: they took 4% last year and are in the workforce at 2% ?

00:29:09 mircea_popescu: this is OVERREPRESENTED.

00:29:13 decimation: heh

00:29:24 decimation: not to the shakedown artists

00:29:42 mircea_popescu: whole fucking country is by now the United Republic of Blackmail.

00:30:10 decimation: except, nobody seems to blackmail microsoft for pumping out shit

00:30:21 mircea_popescu: anwyay, the notion that google hires derps with degrees is news to me. i thought nobody got to finish his degree because hired in 3rd year.

00:30:44 decimation: maybe in their young and dumb days, but now they are legendary for their pickiness

00:31:04 decimation: all of the testing amounts to 'unofficial iq tests', as far as I can tell

00:31:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206433 << you're not gonna have "hdtv" on your thing. not that i mind. i wish they stopped making movies over 700mb. you REALLY do not need more than that for an hour of whatever

00:31:31 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:26:46; asciilifeform: SIGNATURE IN EVERY MOTHERFUCKING PACKET

00:31:39 mircea_popescu: decimation this was the pickiness.

00:31:57 mircea_popescu: "can't afford to not hire this guy now and have him hired by someone later".

00:32:07 mircea_popescu: sort-of like nobody hires 21 yo athletes as entry level.

00:32:19 decimation: heh now the 'movie industry' is going to 4k (3840 x 2160) 3D - in hopes they can hold off piracy, would be my guess

00:32:40 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206443 << crypto is moving bits.

00:32:40 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:28:54; jurov: of course, but cisco just moves bits and does not do crypto

00:33:11 mircea_popescu: more like in hopes that social relevancy is tied to "technological advancement".

00:33:17 mircea_popescu: except there is such a thing as spurious detail.

00:33:29 trinque: see: 4k porn

00:33:40 decimation: indeed. my experience is not enhanced by watching the individual whiskars on gandolf's beard

00:33:49 mircea_popescu: moving from asciiart tits to 500kb gifs was a great reason to ditch the diskette and put in a cdrom

00:34:08 mircea_popescu: moving from 2mb gifs to 600mb .avis was a great reason to ditch the cdrom get a dvd

00:34:09 decimation: in fact, there's a point where it hits an 'uncanny valley' and you realize it's all a set with fake shit everywhere

00:34:13 mircea_popescu: but past that... who the fuck cares.

00:34:20 mircea_popescu: yup.

00:34:34 trinque: asciilifeform: got elephant working with postgresql, wasn't too bad

00:34:42 trinque: barfed on berkdb so I skipped it

00:34:46 decimation: which is why 24 fps in a dark room worked for 100 years

00:36:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206472 << not that much bw, just shitty packets.

00:36:06 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:35:33; jurov: dear decimation these ddoses have tens or hundreds gigabits... and not with 1500 byt packets

00:36:35 decimation: very few providers in the world could even measure 100 gbs ddos

00:36:41 mircea_popescu: 1Mpps has been seen, so... yeah routing over wot will not be a trivial problem. but it does have a trivial solution :

00:36:48 mircea_popescu: only route for peers in your own network.

00:37:05 mircea_popescu: this will make "most of the web" inaccessible to "most people", but only if we measure "most" linearily.

00:37:11 decimation: note that this kinda implies you are building your own network, not using some else's ip routing

00:37:17 mircea_popescu: otherwise, all the web that matters will be visible to all the people who matter.

00:37:39 mircea_popescu: decimation just auto-drop any packets coming from unknown host.

00:38:01 mircea_popescu: you know those hops in the traceroute ? well... the assumption is that they'll just take a packet.

00:38:04 mircea_popescu: this needn't be true.

00:38:47 mircea_popescu: exactly how it works here : we have a public slut (ie, gribble) who will convey a message to anyone, and who can trivially be silenced. otherwise, suppose unknown asks you to convey message to me. well ? why would you.

00:38:47 decimation: yeah I get it

00:38:52 decimation: but how do I plug into this network?

00:38:59 decimation: I doubt comcast will peer directly

00:39:03 mircea_popescu: if you need to ask we do not want to see you.

00:40:00 mircea_popescu: it could trivially work on existing infrastructure really. the ability to ddos only exists on some ports and in some circumstances as it is, because that's what the derps use.

00:40:21 decimation: that was kinda my point about the 'charging per route'

00:40:32 mircea_popescu: server that rejects requests on 80 etc is way harder all of a sudden

00:40:40 decimation: you pay 10 satoshi, get 1e6 packets

00:40:46 mircea_popescu: you don't even need to charge per se. just, PEER. as in, actually.

00:40:53 mircea_popescu: none of this bs "every one walking is my peer".

00:40:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3439 @ 0.00055141 = 1.8963 BTC [-] {2}

00:40:58 decimation: yeah but that still implies physical connection

00:41:03 mircea_popescu: why ?

00:41:25 decimation: someone is gonna have to be in the middle, who may or may not route packets at their pleasure

00:41:40 mircea_popescu: you discard what they route anyway.

00:41:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39323 @ 0.00058395 = 22.9627 BTC [+] {2}

00:42:17 decimation: yes but what if two wot members are peered through several untrusted hosts?

00:42:38 mircea_popescu: what if ?

00:42:39 decimation: the 'untrusted' routers implictly veto packet routing

00:42:46 decimation: or have the power to do so anyway

00:42:59 mircea_popescu: you drop all traffic except port 1337 and check sigs for that so as to only forward stuff to your own peers that they accept.

00:43:18 mircea_popescu: i dun see how they do anything. either they maintain compliance with tcp/ip spec as is, in which case they do nothing

00:43:35 mircea_popescu: or they break it, in which case they kill themselves but we still don't care (for the same reason original internet was robuts - rerouting)

00:43:42 decimation: or, they choose to null route only your stuff

00:43:51 mircea_popescu: that is like suicide for them

00:43:54 mircea_popescu: go ahead, i deeply care.

00:44:00 decimation: how you gonna send anything then?

00:44:06 mircea_popescu: what's next, power rangers will hurt the bitrcoin foundation by not releasing further crap ?

00:44:16 trinque: point would be to define your own network layer, then have multiple transports over which it may be routed

00:44:18 mircea_popescu: this notion that infrastructure has power is ludicrous.

00:44:24 mircea_popescu: you seriously proposing the internet just goes away ?

00:44:31 trinque: as said the existing internet does very much the same thing

00:44:34 ben_vulpes: boost compiles fine with macports << i'm a homebrew dood. perhaps this is wrong?

00:44:42 decimation: isn't that exactly what 'ddos protection' and 'spam protect' do?

00:44:52 mircea_popescu: not as far as i see it.

00:44:57 decimation: ben_vulpes: homebrew seemed lame, but I haven't used it much

00:45:14 ben_vulpes: decimation: do you use macports regularly?

00:45:15 decimation: mircea_popescu: okay, suppose your favorite isp null routes your packets (kills your contract)

00:45:15 mircea_popescu: but the very basic "all plaintext email is spam, throw it out" rule would do that.

00:45:18 decimation: who are you gonna use now?

00:45:29 mircea_popescu: im going to sue them, because we have a contract.

00:45:32 decimation: ben_vulpes: yeah I've used it for years now

00:45:39 mircea_popescu: which they have to execute.

00:45:47 decimation: yeah it's a fair point

00:45:55 decimation: if you are in a datacenter you might get this level of service

00:46:04 mircea_popescu: and if they refuse to sign a contract, im going to sue them for refusing to sign a contract, which thewy actually have to do being a de facto monopoluy

00:46:09 mircea_popescu: and if they aren't, im going to use the competition.

00:46:11 mircea_popescu: and so on.

00:46:24 decimation: sure, in most non-orc places alternatives exist

00:46:33 mircea_popescu: there is no requirement the us must remain connected.

00:46:37 trinque: I really don't think not having a b-a satellite network should preclude getting started on gossipd

00:46:38 trinque: heh

00:46:46 trinque: just build it such that it'll work on that too

00:47:29 mircea_popescu: considering what sats cost these days...

00:47:37 decimation: ben_vulpes: I tried to compile the 1.55.0 boost on macports and it didn't work

00:47:39 trinque: well hell, if you're buying :D

00:47:46 decimation: it does compile 1.58 with clang though

00:47:58 decimation: for some reason the final link didn't work with bitcoind, gonna do some more research

00:48:10 ben_vulpes: i suppose that i'm pretty dumb for just downloading the source and expecting that i'll be able to compile it, huh?

00:48:15 decimation: mircea_popescu: sats are getting cheaper, but doing a 'multipoint sat constellation' is still going to be $$$$$

00:48:18 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206499 << pretty much.

00:48:18 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:43:32; phf: it's more fidonet with crypto handshakes

00:48:32 ben_vulpes: ;;seen artifexd

00:48:33 gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.

00:48:36 decimation: ^ and a small leo 'store-and-forward' would be cheap

00:48:56 decimation: ben_vulpes: like the stator source?

00:49:04 decimation: I tried that, didn't work on 10.6.8

00:49:23 mircea_popescu: decimation mp's law! when i was born, the first satellite had just cost a fortune. by the time i had my first threesome, they were doing consumer phone via satellite. as i made my self billion, fucing romania launched a satellite on a shoestring budget.

00:49:30 mircea_popescu: before i die i'm going to be farting satellites.

00:49:46 decimation: well, there's a whole movement of 'get space to the people'

00:49:50 ben_vulpes: i thought up an http-auth thing recently: http request headers containing a signed hash of one of the last 2 blocks

00:50:10 ben_vulpes: (signed by a customer or allowed user or someone the service provider likes)

00:50:10 mircea_popescu: why signed ?

00:50:20 mircea_popescu: so like the most ellaborate nonce ever ?

00:50:22 ben_vulpes: vulnerable to a bit of replay

00:50:34 ben_vulpes: mwell point is to gate access to an api without relying on tls

00:50:52 ben_vulpes: or broadcasting credentials in the clear ala http-basic auth

00:51:09 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-07-2015#1206513 << i didn't pour that spec in concrete.

00:51:09 assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:46:27; asciilifeform: again, it wasn't in mircea_popescu's spec

00:51:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-07-2015#1206831 << mno. that's 'dotcom boom' sop. today - no one without 'straight a' marks is considered, etc.

00:51:23 assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:30:21; mircea_popescu: anwyay, the notion that google hires derps with degrees is news to me. i thought nobody got to finish his degree because hired in 3rd year.

00:51:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but they've also stopped doing anything

00:51:47 mircea_popescu: when's the last time google had a product ?

00:51:59 trinque: I thought they only killed ones they purchased

00:52:11 ben_vulpes: oh get real asciilifeform google facebook and amazon were all chasing my dumb ass at one point and i never had good grades and definitely never finished kawledge

00:52:16 mircea_popescu: they're still living off fucking google ads. which work about as good as an ant blowjob. since then, endless string of failures, briefcase, glass, g+ you name it

00:52:24 mircea_popescu: the mark cubanization of google.

00:52:34 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: let us not forget "Inbox" or w/e

00:52:50 trinque: ben_vulpes: isn't that something they purchased?

00:52:55 mircea_popescu: actually briefcase was yahoo i guess, the "media company"

00:52:58 decimation: asciilifeform: tonight for dinner I had 'riga' sprat and rye bread (berliner broet)

00:53:07 mircea_popescu: o hey, delicious.

00:53:13 ben_vulpes: no, apple purchased the only decent mail application for ios to preserve their mailnopoly

00:53:27 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ios mail still sucks.

00:53:35 trinque: ben_vulpes: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/20/3172222/google-buys-sparrow-mail

00:53:36 assbot: Google buys Sparrow, current apps will not get any new features | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/1IdaDs6 )

00:53:40 trinque: could've been descended from that.

00:53:46 ben_vulpes: because while they can mandate webkit as browser they cannot

00:53:48 decimation: ios mail won't 'push' from gmail servers

00:53:50 ben_vulpes: oh hey it was google

00:53:55 ben_vulpes: my b

00:54:04 trinque: there were a few, apple might've too

00:54:05 ben_vulpes: heh yeah that's right

00:54:10 trinque: dropbox bought "mailbox"

00:54:23 ben_vulpes: my read at the time was "google is raping apple's mail experience"

00:54:26 ben_vulpes: ^^ mircea_popescu

00:54:36 ben_vulpes: i know ios mail is bad.

00:54:36 decimation: yeah, still are apparently

00:54:45 ben_vulpes: i use the gmail application.

00:54:46 decimation: and everyone uses gmail because spam

00:55:00 decimation: it's a 'baptists and bootleggers' situation

00:55:17 mircea_popescu: i don't use gmail and don't have a spam problem. but hey.

00:55:20 ben_vulpes: it, unlike Mail™, sort of works.

00:55:30 ben_vulpes: the touchscreen however is an unredeemable text input device.

00:55:34 mircea_popescu: ^

00:55:47 ben_vulpes: because text is not simply an 'input' problem.

00:55:48 mircea_popescu: "srsly, where's the macro on this thing" "the what ?"

00:55:51 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-07-2015#1206934 << one of those things that cannot continue. useful orbits are already very crowded (mainly with garbage.)

00:55:51 assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:49:30; mircea_popescu: before i die i'm going to be farting satellites.

00:55:58 ben_vulpes: but more precisely a 'transformation' thing.

00:56:13 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i will build the garbage scows.

00:56:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda why space war is inevitable. i see no problem shooting everything else out of orbit to fart my own

00:56:25 ben_vulpes: there are a million ways to pull debris out of orbit.

00:56:31 ben_vulpes: cloud of water

00:56:34 mircea_popescu: oh srsly, oprah can not be broacast anymore now ? bwahahaha mkayt.

00:56:45 ben_vulpes: (for one)

00:56:54 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-07-2015#1206950 << you clearly did not actually go to the arse chaser and ask for a job

00:56:54 assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:52:11; ben_vulpes: oh get real asciilifeform google facebook and amazon were all chasing my dumb ass at one point and i never had good grades and definitely never finished kawledge

00:56:57 ben_vulpes: Fe shrapnel

00:57:00 asciilifeform: they chase everyone with a pulse

00:57:07 asciilifeform: hire - the brahmins

00:57:07 decimation: to me the solution to spam is "pay me to read your email in bitcoin"

00:57:37 trinque: just don't accept every soiled napkin as mail

00:57:39 trinque: and done

00:57:41 ben_vulpes: b-a mailservers when

00:57:41 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-07-2015#1206988 << go, pull

00:57:41 assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:56:25; ben_vulpes: there are a million ways to pull debris out of orbit.

00:57:49 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what did you think dpaste was.

00:58:00 decimation: the stuff below a few hundred km is okay, because it is 'swept' by atmosphere

00:58:02 ben_vulpes: ad hoc bug ridden implementation of half of smtp

00:58:12 asciilifeform: uncle al's orbit-sweeper shotgun is only a matter of time.

00:58:14 decimation: but you need some method of keeping orbit to maintain

00:58:15 mircea_popescu: seems great to me. what's the problem with it ?

00:58:22 trinque: so. seriously. what's the story with artifexd ?

00:58:41 ben_vulpes: trinque: don't bite off gossipd man

00:58:42 mircea_popescu: ;;seen artifexd

00:58:42 gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, 42 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.

00:59:00 mircea_popescu: trinque guy seemed to be seriously working on it, was gonna say something in a coupla weeks a quarter ago.

00:59:19 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell artifexd yo!

00:59:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:59:21 asciilifeform: this is probably where i confess that ~my~ gossipd is nearly done...

00:59:22 trinque: maybe he is, would just like to hear

00:59:34 trinque: asciilifeform: !!

00:59:36 ben_vulpes: he of many hands

00:59:39 mircea_popescu: but yes, gossipd is the huge sort of project that looks like it'd benefit from a few failure reports from failed attempts before we seriously have a shot.

00:59:46 asciilifeform: hey i started before you folks got hot & bothered

00:59:46 trinque: ben_vulpes: no kidding right?

00:59:51 mircea_popescu: not just because of stuff like the above asciilifeform comment, but also because well... huge.

01:00:01 ben_vulpes: trinque: i think he actually has employees

01:00:14 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes maybe HE is the one with slavegirls.

01:00:19 asciilifeform: l0lz

01:00:42 ben_vulpes: aha yes actually this makes sense

01:00:45 ben_vulpes: 'pet' has read knr

01:01:00 mircea_popescu: prolly has 588 of them, all the same height, wearing the same mask

01:01:05 decimation: asciilifeform: when buying from the german baker, I commented how my coworkers mock my sprat eating habits. her reply "always with the chicken this, chicken that"

01:01:13 mircea_popescu: bwahaha

01:01:15 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: that vacuum-packed babe was p lulzy

01:01:28 asciilifeform: decimation reminds me, i gotta resprat

01:01:54 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: attended another costco today

01:01:56 decimation: 'riga' is definitely smokey, I like it, but 'king oskar' is good too (unsmoked)

01:01:57 mircea_popescu: http://38.media.tumblr.com/c021a1191d8153f73ba1b27bcd9fb28c/tumblr_n5xmsiNmjE1tulo74o5_400.gif << competence and ridiculously infantile tits.

01:01:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IdbCbZ )

01:01:58 ben_vulpes: did not get ID'd

01:02:01 *: asciilifeform checks larder, notices a full clip of sprats. pet must have bought a bunch

01:02:13 ben_vulpes: i think everyone can smell your perma-lsd-trip.

01:02:23 decimation: it is weird how most usians are biased against fish in a tin

01:02:25 asciilifeform: decimation: i've yet to locate a supplier for unsmoked

01:02:27 decimation: or fish in general

01:02:29 trinque: decimation: I'll eat it

01:02:34 trinque: happen to like sardines

01:02:44 asciilifeform: decimation: in usa, 'fish in tin' typically means cheap tuna, and one notch above what is fed to cat

01:02:46 asciilifeform: (if that)

01:03:06 asciilifeform: to the point where ru immigrants sometimes are found to have lived on 'cat feed' for months

01:03:09 mircea_popescu: !up DanielBTC

01:03:14 ben_vulpes: (anyways, if anyone cares to poke holes in my proposed ghetto wot httpauthentication mechanism, plz do)

01:03:17 asciilifeform: without being even slightly aware of what it was for

01:03:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm still snarfing up the log

01:03:35 asciilifeform: was out, swimming

01:03:44 decimation: asciilifeform: these are usually available in the us (safeway?) http://www.kingoscar.com/products-by-market/usa/usa-sardines/brisling-sardines-in-olive-oil-5.html

01:03:46 assbot: brisling sardines in olive oil » KING OSCAR – THE BEST SEAFOOD IN THE WORLD ... ( http://bit.ly/1IdbMQl )

01:03:46 ben_vulpes: and i snorkeling!

01:03:56 decimation: they sell them as 'brisling sardines' but they are sprat - I am certain of this

01:04:31 mircea_popescu: uh

01:04:38 mircea_popescu: the sprat IS a sardine. that's what they're called in english.

01:04:43 asciilifeform: apparently not quite

01:04:49 decimation: it turns out there's many kinds of 'sardine'

01:04:50 asciilifeform: 'sardine' is a dish

01:04:56 asciilifeform: can be made from more than one animal

01:04:58 mircea_popescu: sprattus sprattus. that's what it is, the brisling

01:05:03 decimation: yes exactly

01:05:13 decimation: but they are sold as sardines in the us because they haven't heard of 'sprat'

01:05:15 mircea_popescu: no dood, sardine is a fish lol

01:05:29 mircea_popescu: you mean sardine' with an accent ?

01:05:29 asciilifeform: a dozen species

01:05:33 asciilifeform: are sold as 'sardine'

01:05:37 mircea_popescu: well sure.

01:05:39 asciilifeform: sprattus is one.

01:06:23 decimation: it's actually almost impossible to tell exactly what kind of fish you are eating in the us

01:06:31 decimation: and from whence it comes

01:06:40 asciilifeform: at some point it will be possible to tell - with a geiger.

01:06:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, did we ever discuss what zacusca ended up in romanian ?

01:06:55 ben_vulpes: one of the nicer things about hawaii is the plentify ahi

01:06:59 ben_vulpes: plentiful*

01:07:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: закуска ?

01:07:04 mircea_popescu: ya.

01:07:09 decimation: yeah hawaii has the best sushi I've eaten

01:07:20 decimation: especially in honolulu where they cater to rich japanese

01:07:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: original ru is, roughly, 'snack you eat when boozing it up'

01:07:37 asciilifeform: and in ro, i presume, means something other ?

01:07:42 mircea_popescu: yes. in romanian is this very specific, traditionally canned vegetable paste

01:07:49 PeterL: So I've been thinking about the mempool: There should be a size limit set in the config for mempool, along with the minFee. Each txn gets scored based on age of coins, amount in txn, size of txn, and fee, etc, once the size limit is reached if a txn does not meet the lowest ranking it is ignored, if it does then the lowest ranked txn is ejected to make space, and every once in a while the oldest and highest ranking txns in the mempool are rebroa

01:07:49 PeterL: to make sure they get included eventually in a block

01:07:51 mircea_popescu: mostly red pepper and baked eggplant

01:07:59 mircea_popescu: o hallo peterl

01:08:03 decimation: for spreading on bread/crackersA?

01:08:03 PeterL: hi

01:08:07 mircea_popescu: decimation quite.

01:08:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oh ha, we call that dish икра (as in 'caviar', yes, same word)

01:08:36 mircea_popescu: icre, of course, are hanbot's least favourite romanian food.

01:08:41 mircea_popescu: particularly "icre de crap"

01:08:46 asciilifeform: l0l

01:08:52 mircea_popescu: which yes is a thing.

01:09:15 ben_vulpes: PeterL: you missed the thread where alf pointed out that 'mempool' is not a part of bitcoin.

01:09:34 mircea_popescu: PeterL you know your thinking is a nearly exact restatement of what i said last week ?

01:09:35 asciilifeform: PeterL: mircea_popescu had a scheme quite like the one you described

01:09:40 asciilifeform: ^

01:09:46 ben_vulpes: heh

01:09:47 PeterL: oh, must have missed it

01:10:03 PeterL: but what is bitcoin without transactions?

01:10:05 asciilifeform: it is more or less the obvious solution to 'how to keep a public tx pool'

01:10:15 asciilifeform: PeterL: more than one way to get tx from originator to miner

01:10:16 mircea_popescu: granted, i claim no ownersheep.

01:10:17 ben_vulpes: sync and serve mechanisms are vastly more important.

01:10:17 trinque: or more generally stated... "markets work"

01:10:22 mircea_popescu: just thought the guy may enjoy the notion ?D

01:10:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.00056171 = 29.9953 BTC [-] {2}

01:10:27 asciilifeform: PeterL: can be carried - directly. via pigeon. sailboat.

01:10:51 mircea_popescu: dude stop confusing can and will be. alf can pick up prostitutes in buenos aires, too.

01:10:52 asciilifeform: mempool is by far the weakest link in the chain we have today

01:10:52 PeterL: yeah, but it makes sense to have -some- relay built into reference version

01:10:55 mircea_popescu: via a sailboat.

01:11:14 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "can" lol

01:11:27 PeterL: with my scheme, just set the max-size to 0 and it turns the mempool off

01:11:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it. sorta like i asked my father, as a small boy, if furniture could speak. answer 'yes, in principle'

01:11:34 mircea_popescu: lol

01:12:07 mircea_popescu: did i ever recount the joke about practice and theory ?

01:12:14 asciilifeform: hm ?

01:12:34 asciilifeform: (what i meant earlier was that tx only needs to get to the destination - miner. if it cannot get there cheaply and easily, it will get there expensively and painfully. but it will get there.)

01:12:38 mircea_popescu: after reading b-a log for the first time, little gavin schmuckssen went to his father

01:12:46 ben_vulpes: http://cnsnews.com/blog/melanie-hunter/pregnant-wnba-star-asks-20k-month-spousal-support-her-wife << ahahaha child support hits the gays

01:12:47 assbot: Pregnant WNBA Star Asks for $20K a Month Spousal Support from Her Wife | CNS News ... ( http://bit.ly/1IdcWLL )

01:12:58 mircea_popescu: "daddy, daddy, i heard these mean kids use two unknown words. theory and practice. do you know what is the difference ?"

01:13:28 mircea_popescu: old man schmuckssen calls over his wife. "honey, there's an arab prince at the door, wants to fuck you silly for a million bucks. what should i say to him ?"

01:13:42 mircea_popescu: "well... uhh... i'd never... you know we're behind on the mortgage and that nsa check is late..."

01:13:50 mircea_popescu: old man schmuckssen calls over his daughter

01:14:06 mircea_popescu: "listen dear, the arab prince has a friend. would you..."

01:14:12 mircea_popescu: YES ! YES!!! she cuts him off

01:14:18 mircea_popescu: "see gavin, in theory we're millionaires.

01:14:24 mircea_popescu: in practice, we're stuck with a coupla whores."

01:14:39 asciilifeform: !b 17

01:14:40 assbot: Last 17 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/21TCSAR.txt )

01:14:47 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: got elephant working with postgresql, wasn't too bad << share!

01:15:10 trinque: ben_vulpes: took some very minimal notes, may share when I feel like I know what I'm doing

01:15:27 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al: must warn that abstractions don't actually work. that is, the underlying limitations of your db will 'leak out'.

01:15:34 asciilifeform: that is, updates - dog-slow, for example

01:15:40 trinque: yeah, I expect this

01:15:56 asciilifeform: you may get more of 'this' than you expected.

01:16:03 asciilifeform: but otherwise the thing worx.

01:16:10 trinque: this is an experiment to see whether I can transplant my standard patterns of db use to lisp

01:16:19 mircea_popescu: and to round off that joke, i guess : http://41.media.tumblr.com/b9ef786cc8939eb428859b4018f9eade/tumblr_n1q1hy0e411syt00ao1_1280.jpg

01:16:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iddql2 )

01:17:18 asciilifeform: trinque: so long as you were not expecting to transplant patterns of lisp to db use - you will be reasonably happy with 'elephant'

01:17:36 mircea_popescu: if not that, what is he expecting

01:17:45 mircea_popescu: using packages starting with the letter "e" ?

01:18:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: background for thread: 'elephant' is this thing that tries to magick away the fact that db exists, by allowing you to mark an arbitrary lisp data structure as 'persistent' and churning it to db behind the scenes

01:19:12 mircea_popescu: right.

01:19:14 asciilifeform: that is, an attempt to simulate 'proper computer' in this specific way.

01:19:30 trinque: I'll admit I got a bit uncomfortable seeing a keyvalue table

01:20:17 trinque: author must've been shy on altering schema

01:20:45 asciilifeform: author was trying to keep dbisms to a minimum.

01:21:06 *: asciilifeform fucking loathes db and everything connected with the notion

01:21:32 trinque: runs directly contarary to your idea of knowing the cost of an operation

01:21:41 trinque: that "table" could be 100 views deep

01:21:41 asciilifeform: not only

01:22:18 asciilifeform: it is a malignancy - in every way, from forcing me to touch and think about turdlangs, to being chock-full of opaque mechanisms and slow as fuck at its fastest

01:22:43 asciilifeform: and folks come to think that it excuses them from knowing jack shit about data structures and choosing right one for a job

01:22:52 BingoBoingo: it's actually almost impossible to tell exactly what kind of fish you are eating in the us << Catching own fish is possible

01:24:26 PeterL: The river running through my town has a "don't eat the fish" rule because of some toxic spill upstream from 20 years ago

01:24:34 trinque: asciilifeform: reasoning with sets and their relationships is why I use the db heavily in work

01:24:51 trinque: I have an inkling of being able to do the same thing in lisp, but you know, grew up in the congo, working on it

01:25:32 ben_vulpes: trinque: have you started reading the statice manual?

01:25:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-07-2015#1207034 << ben_vulpes is a recent convert to 'costco' ?

01:25:33 assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 01:01:54; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: attended another costco today

01:26:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: statice may or may not make sense without access to the live animal

01:26:15 BingoBoingo: PeterL: Recently had some "sour crude" leak from a pipe upstream of our reservoir

01:26:39 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: attended with family who are cult members

01:26:47 ben_vulpes: they were not id'd either

01:26:50 asciilifeform: ah

01:26:53 ben_vulpes: i am however considering a conversion

01:26:55 trinque: ben_vulpes: I have not

01:27:02 asciilifeform: it's roughly a hundy, iirc

01:27:14 asciilifeform: gives you a pass, and one for the woman

01:27:19 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re statice, what parts wouldn't make sense? the thing is explained in painstaking detail.

01:27:27 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: only need one - for the woman

01:27:32 asciilifeform: l0l

01:28:06 ben_vulpes: trinque: go, read. a marvel of technical writing.

01:28:10 trinque: neat

01:28:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the symbolics books are a marvel of writing.

01:28:25 ben_vulpes: such as i have not seen in my career to date.

01:28:47 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i may yet end up with a set because of this reason.

01:28:47 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they were, iirc, the first hyperlinked manual (one was expected to read them on the machine - but it came with a paper set!)

01:28:49 asciilifeform: i have the paper

01:28:53 ben_vulpes: the covers are also gorgeous.

01:28:53 asciilifeform: it takes up most of a shelf

01:29:01 asciilifeform: was given to me, for phree, even

01:29:03 asciilifeform: by a phriend.

01:29:36 asciilifeform: gave me his 'alpha', too

01:33:25 trinque: asciilifeform: hm I already see your point, maybe, re: data structures

01:33:31 trinque: I get a tree, in a database!

01:33:49 trinque: you know, without parent_id and "with recursive"

01:34:13 trinque: I've done horrible things working with trees in SQL

01:34:46 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/smbxman.jpg << all but the blue (interlisp, xerox) and orange ('chinanual', for the original mit lisp mach)

01:34:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IdfABo )

01:34:53 trinque: so now I'm going to grow to like this, and then I'm going to be stuck later wondering why something I've done is slow

01:36:19 asciilifeform: on the real machine, you could actually execute the examples in the docs browser.

01:37:21 trinque: !up gabriel_laddel

01:37:21 asciilifeform: somebody buy gabriel_laddel a new modem ?

01:37:34 trinque: !up gabriel_laddel

01:37:42 trinque: bueller?

01:38:05 trinque: lol

01:39:50 ben_vulpes: he just got a job writing common lisp

01:39:51 ben_vulpes: fuck him

01:40:06 ben_vulpes: can buy his own damn modem

01:41:21 gabriel_laddel: trinque: lol

01:41:48 gabriel_laddel: trinque: does elephant allow you to redefine classes without restarting?

01:42:09 gabriel_laddel: manardb does everything but that...

01:42:36 ben_vulpes: whoa

01:42:38 ben_vulpes: manardb

01:42:55 gabriel_laddel: supposedly it's fast

01:43:00 trinque: gabriel_laddel: no idea yet; began just now

01:43:10 trinque: lemme see

01:43:28 decimation: ben_vulpes: http://cryto.net/~joepie91/blog/2015/07/19/why-you-should-never-ever-ever-use-mongodb/ < some mongodb hate, made me think of you

01:43:43 trinque: nosql is a fucking sham

01:44:00 trinque: not that sql's great, but every "db" in that whole wave of shit can be forgotten

01:44:07 asciilifeform: ^

01:44:42 *: ben_vulpes twitches

01:44:45 ben_vulpes: that's triggering decimation

01:44:47 ben_vulpes: plz no bully

01:44:48 asciilifeform: and it is also an interesting case study: what kinds of brokenness produce these waves of 'kids who tried their best' (tm)

01:44:51 asciilifeform: like 'mongo'

01:45:16 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lemme guess, you're stuck maintaining one of those things ?

01:46:09 ben_vulpes: was at one time

01:46:25 ben_vulpes: client blew their budget on ie8 css compatibility in a half-assed single page js app

01:46:27 decimation: from my own meatwot, the 'benefit' to mongo is that it can scale, because it 'runs twitter' or some shit

01:46:45 ben_vulpes: dude runs whatever

01:46:47 ben_vulpes: this is always a lie

01:47:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2466 @ 0.00058422 = 1.4407 BTC [+]

01:47:18 ben_vulpes: some engineer somewhere in some corp decides to play with it for a week, people who wrote dumbthing get email of concern from said engineer, decide to advertise as "running bigcorp"

01:48:24 trinque: "JS and JSON, therefore ..." << is the process of "design" that shat all this

01:49:00 decimation: lul apparently mongo is 'most popular' http://db-engines.com/en/ranking/document+store

01:49:01 assbot: DB-Engines Ranking - popularity ranking of document stores ... ( http://bit.ly/1Idh7am )

01:49:08 decimation: ^ run moar winblows

01:49:09 ben_vulpes: dafuq

01:49:09 ben_vulpes: is

01:49:11 ben_vulpes: a document store

01:49:25 ben_vulpes: you assholes are winding me up deliberately.

01:49:29 asciilifeform: i can usually tell from talking to a fella who programs - for three minutes - whether he's 'seen the elephant'

01:50:00 *: ben_vulpes has maybe touched the penile bit

01:50:07 asciilifeform: which is to say, in this case, whether he has already had the flash of realization that the shit he is working with sucks because of 'anthropic principle' - that is, if it weren't a crock of shit, he would not have his job...

01:50:13 decimation: asciilifeform: my experience is that much of this kind of thing is only learned by 'tried, fucked me'

01:50:39 trinque: asciilifeform: obligatory reference to fake stroustrup interview

01:50:55 trinque: decimation: yes, I did once choose couchdb when I was 22

01:50:58 trinque: ass still smarts

01:51:23 decimation: actually I did go through the slides on that stroustrup talk

01:51:28 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I met the guy who wrote that. Ugh.

01:51:32 asciilifeform: naggum had a thing re: 'job-creating systems'

01:51:37 trinque: gabriel_laddel: did you punch him in the dick?

01:51:39 decimation: the most amusing bit to me was his little diatribe against garbage collectors

01:51:42 gabriel_laddel: trinque: haha no

01:52:40 gabriel_laddel: me: "lisp makes meta-programming trivial" him: "if it did they'd rule the world already, and therefore I don't have to consider your argument"

01:53:10 ben_vulpes: this is why i don't talk to programmers i don't know about programming.

01:53:23 asciilifeform: 'if yer so smart why aitcha rich'

01:53:53 asciilifeform: (tm) (r)

01:54:02 decimation: stroustrop appears to 'hate' garbage collection because (correctly) hardware fucks him

01:54:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27683 @ 0.00058511 = 16.1976 BTC [+] {2}

01:54:16 decimation: this apparently means 'no garbage collection' not 'no shit hardware'

01:54:25 asciilifeform: he takes the hardware as a given

01:54:26 trinque: he doesn't hate the world enough to say it should change

01:54:38 gabriel_laddel: ;; seen Xemist

01:54:38 gribble: I have not seen Xemist.

01:54:41 ben_vulpes: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/2010-10/lisp-2010.10.29.txt << grep for MREMAP

01:54:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqdQDE )

01:55:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67670 @ 0.00058535 = 39.6106 BTC [+] {2}

01:55:27 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: wtf why are you grepping for that.

01:55:52 gabriel_laddel: does manardb not work out of the box?

01:57:11 ben_vulpes: no sir it does not appear to

01:57:24 ben_vulpes: Symbol "MREMAP" not found in the OSICAT-POSIX package.

01:58:06 decimation: http://www.slideshare.net/curryon/bjarne-stroustrupwhatifanythinghavewelearnedfromc < his talk does show the marks of one bruised by reality

01:58:07 assbot: What – if anything – have we learned from C++? by Bjarne Stroustrup @… ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqeaT9 )

01:58:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00057912 = 38.5115 BTC [-] {2}

01:58:35 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: You can "man mremap"?

01:59:35 ben_vulpes: watch this be an os x problem

01:59:53 ben_vulpes: "No manual entry for mremap"

01:59:55 ben_vulpes: hyuuuuuuu

01:59:59 asciilifeform: didn't ben_vulpes get hold of an actual computer at some point recently ?

02:00:43 gabriel_laddel: OSICAT is a unix bindings library, download/build that program, it'll CFFI some stuff and kosher.

02:01:47 gabriel_laddel: ftr, when using manardb you'll have to force it to init on reboot by creating a junk mmap'ed class.

02:02:03 asciilifeform: ~retch~

02:02:05 ben_vulpes: even on macos?

02:02:14 gabriel_laddel: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/blob/master/init.lisp#L31

02:02:16 assbot: masamune/init.lisp at master · gabriel-laddel/masamune · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqeEsp )

02:02:26 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: lolidk prolly

02:02:45 gabriel_laddel: I'm just leaving this in the logs on the off chance someone decides to play around with it.

02:02:53 ben_vulpes: DUDE

02:02:58 ben_vulpes: why can't i have software that works.

02:03:21 *: gabriel_laddel is working on it, but money, time, lazy etc.

02:03:23 ben_vulpes: i feel like herr popescu with apache and his caching layer

02:03:28 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: because you haven't hardware that works.

02:03:35 asciilifeform: otherwise - could write it.

02:04:09 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel, for instance, probably believes that he has 'hardware that works.' just as i did, in 2008

02:04:16 asciilifeform: he does not.

02:04:37 ben_vulpes: okay well trinque gabriel_laddel i give up on this lisp persistence thing

02:04:47 ben_vulpes: i'm writing raw sql in my cl going forward

02:04:55 asciilifeform: after he learns that he doesn't, he will probably come to believe that it can be emulated on hardware which almost works.

02:04:56 trinque: there are a hundred large pieces of software already out in the wild begging to be ripped open by something new

02:05:00 asciilifeform: as i did in 2009.

02:05:02 asciilifeform: it cannot.

02:05:08 trinque: old crufty industries that are not interesting to those trying to advance the art of computer science.

02:05:14 trinque: go kill a few of those and fund your computer

02:05:19 gabriel_laddel: haha, I believe no such thing, but I have to deliver "working" (for some value of that word) software to clients irrespective of how hardware behaves.

02:05:23 gabriel_laddel: trinque: bingo!

02:05:40 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: 'for some value of the word' - you can go do, on microshit, in visual basic, sure.

02:05:48 asciilifeform: i was speaking of ~actually fucking works~

02:05:53 asciilifeform: like the brooklyn bridge works

02:05:56 gabriel_laddel: Or I could use CL, PCLOS, retain my sanity.

02:06:01 asciilifeform: like a colt '45 works

02:07:31 decimation: for example, you can make a syscall and all possible outcomes are foreseen

02:10:06 gabriel_laddel: wat

02:13:49 decimation: if you cannot predict the outcome of a request of the hardware, how can you possibly 'fix it' in software?

02:13:56 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3103356827666810@naggum.no.html << obligatory re: cpp

02:13:57 assbot: Re: is CLOS reall OO? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1IdjH0i )

02:15:03 phf: my favorite way to do lisp persistence is to just keep everything in memory and do ext:save-lisp from a that does minor amount of saved image management. i learned the trick from avi bryant back when he was writing interesting code

02:15:09 asciilifeform: decimation: hardware can also make certain operations impractically unreliable (e.g., persistence across power toggles) or impractically slow (e.g., all-pointers-are-typed-pointers as on lispm will never happen on x86)

02:15:20 phf: *from a thread

02:15:36 asciilifeform: 'save-lisp-and-die'

02:15:54 phf: yes, but without the instance dying part

02:16:10 ben_vulpes: slad doesn't really address the power toggle thing

02:16:15 asciilifeform: if your working ram is 1) at least as big as your data set 2) connected to own nuke reactor, never loses power - then, great.

02:16:18 ben_vulpes: or lisp instance crashign either, though right?

02:16:34 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if your lisp crashes, something is very very wrong in your house

02:16:40 phf: ^

02:16:41 ben_vulpes: hey man i'm a really bad programmer

02:16:59 ben_vulpes: this is such a bold claim!

02:16:59 asciilifeform: i'm a terrible cook. but have never 'crashed' my kitchen yet

02:17:09 ben_vulpes: really? i'm supposed to eat this? that lisp isntances don't crash?

02:17:12 asciilifeform: (it is still standing)

02:17:38 decimation: " I actually think C++ is ideal only for programmers without any ethics.

02:17:41 decimation: you must lie, you are encouraged to declare your private stuff and keep

02:17:44 decimation: the cards very closely to your breast, but if you need access, you just

02:17:45 phf: i've crashed cmucl a few times, but only when i would reach into heap to access vectors directly. acl and lispworks never crash on me

02:17:47 decimation: go ahead and change other people's class definitions. "

02:17:48 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have never succeeded in crashing sbcl, for instance

02:17:50 decimation: lul

02:17:53 gabriel_laddel: it is pretty easy to crash your lisp using CL-OPENGL

02:17:55 asciilifeform: at least, not without doing ffi

02:18:00 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: aha, ffi

02:18:07 decimation: gabriel_laddel: sure, because hardware/drivers fuck you

02:18:14 ben_vulpes: hm

02:18:27 ben_vulpes: what about sharing data structures across many instances?

02:18:57 phf: i think the idea here is that some data loss is way cheaper then programmer time. also memory is way cheaper then programmer time. if you have a really critical data stream, just do a write only log, that you can either replay or even just recover manually

02:19:25 asciilifeform: phf: 'write-only log' is what, paper tape ?

02:19:34 ben_vulpes: you're telling me that i should what...just write code?

02:19:36 trinque: maybe means write ahead log?

02:19:51 phf: asciilifeform: essentially

02:21:11 phf: in my experience it's cheaper to literally go a log file and reconstruct data manually the one time your system crash, then introduce uknowable redundancies that tend to increase complexity and ultimately result in the crash, because doesn't fit in head

02:22:18 asciilifeform: phf: go reconstruct blockchain manually.

02:22:21 asciilifeform: this is ludicrous.

02:22:32 asciilifeform: if it can be done manually, economically, i would not be using a fucking computer !

02:23:06 asciilifeform: the answer is ALWAYS, without exception, fits-in-head+does-not-crash+operates-correctly.

02:23:09 decimation: https://youtu.be/pVgM5RzWMOc?t=15s < paper tape reader

02:23:10 assbot: Colossus - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oqhm12 )

02:23:13 asciilifeform: if you have something else - you do not have the answer.

02:23:50 trinque: wait a sec

02:23:56 trinque: in elephant I can only "where" on one slot?

02:24:57 trinque: I have to say so far the querying capacity of this thing looks to be on par with couchdb

02:25:29 phf: asciilifeform: that's my answer to. the log is a contingency plan for when the lisp instance fails, which it rarely does. in which case your goal is to reconstruct the state from the time of last save-lisp (say an hour), till the point of crash

02:26:17 phf: the loc on that is in 10s, rather then 1000s + external servers for when your first reaction is to "reach for database"

02:27:01 trinque: I have noticed many times that when someone tries to pry the relational model from my hands, I lose behavior and am then told "you didn't actually need that behavior"

02:27:12 asciilifeform: sop

02:27:37 asciilifeform: https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/pobble.html << obligatory!

02:27:39 assbot: 'The Pobble Who Has No Toes' - Edward Lear ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqhXzB )

02:28:10 ben_vulpes: i am going to spend 2 years just reading CL tooling documentation before putting anything into production at this rate.

02:28:39 ben_vulpes: Adlai: once told me that the 'log reading' period for CL was well in excess of that for #b-a

02:28:47 *: ben_vulpes empties his cup

02:28:49 ben_vulpes: again

02:29:15 asciilifeform: it is measured in years, yes

02:29:24 ben_vulpes: what about deploying code to servers? just slime-connect to the remote host over an ssh tunnel and then compile the new codebase in?

02:29:28 trinque: asciilifeform: so am I meant to read every damn object into memory just to filter on >1 slot?

02:29:28 asciilifeform: can watch continents drift.

02:29:48 asciilifeform: trinque: if you don't like this, can make own indices

02:29:57 trinque: k

02:30:00 asciilifeform: i don't get this thing were folks expect others to chew for them

02:30:03 asciilifeform: wipe arse too ?

02:30:07 ben_vulpes: zing

02:30:17 asciilifeform: srsly, it is a bad habit imho

02:30:27 asciilifeform: but curable!

02:30:33 trinque: there are loads of repeating patterns in end-user data access

02:30:42 trinque: I am not sorry I used relational as a "gun to fire today"

02:30:44 ben_vulpes: there's a difference between chewing and a tool that abstracts a thing that needs doing

02:30:46 trinque: I'll take a gun to fire tomorrow too

02:31:16 *: ben_vulpes looks at postmodern again

02:31:30 gabriel_laddel: " What I want to be able to do is this.

02:31:31 gabriel_laddel: 1. Turn on the machine.

02:31:31 gabriel_laddel: 2. Work.

02:31:31 gabriel_laddel: 3. Have a bit of fun provided I've done enough of 2, which is rarely, but that's another issue.

02:31:31 gabriel_laddel: When I say 'work', I mean I want to be able to start typing on the screen, and if I feel like putting in a drawing, I draw on the screen. Or I bring something from my scanner on to the screen, or I send something from my screen to someone else. Or I get my Mac to play the tune I've just written on the screen on a synthesiser. Or well, the list obviously is endless. And if I need any particular tool to enable me to d

02:31:31 gabriel_laddel: o anything complicated I simply ask for it. And I mean simply. I should never have to put away the thing I'm working on unless I've actually finished it (fat chance say my publishers) or want to do something else entirely."

02:31:32 trinque: ben_vulpes: it's fine; eats a sql string or sexp version thereof, farts list

02:31:33 gabriel_laddel: -- http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/980707-00-a.html

02:31:34 assbot: DNA/Frank The Vandal ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqikKE )

02:31:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51564 @ 0.00056128 = 28.9418 BTC [-]

02:32:25 trinque: gabriel_laddel: I want to sit down and catalog everything around me according to kind and relationship

02:32:36 trinque: then do arbitrary data analysis over it, and fast, damn it!

02:33:02 trinque: most businesses out there (that make a profit even!) are entirely blind

02:33:25 trinque: or they happened upon a few tools that answered enough of the essential questions that they never bothered asking more

02:33:39 phf: ben_vulpes: re server deploy http://www.nicklevine.org/play/patching-made-easy.html, not the only solution, but pretty cool

02:33:39 assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqiBND )

02:35:11 trinque: asciilifeform: that doesn't solve it for me either, really

02:35:25 trinque: many user interfaces are essentially an editor for the where clause, order by, and so on for some query

02:35:34 trinque: the conditionals involved are not necessarily known in advance

02:35:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87068 @ 0.00056836 = 49.486 BTC [+] {3}

02:36:04 trinque: I don't buy that you should know in advance every interesting question you might ask your data

02:36:12 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, phf, Adlai, gabriel_laddel: still curious about deploying CL code to running instances

02:36:14 trinque: but perhaps that doesn't follow; I dunno yet

02:36:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124100 @ 0.00058934 = 73.1371 BTC [+] {4}

02:37:02 ben_vulpes: thanks phf

02:37:13 trinque: couchdb had this too

02:37:14 ben_vulpes: wow i just remembered that gribble integration you wrote

02:37:21 gabriel_laddel: trinque: size of the data sets you're dealing with?

02:37:21 trinque: where an index had to be written for every "query" in advance

02:37:25 ben_vulpes: or was it assbot...

02:38:08 phf: ben_vulpes: it was assbot. i started on gribble, but it doesn't work as well

02:38:20 trinque: gabriel_laddel: could be millions of rows or more; how many widgets does factory X fart out per year?

02:38:29 trinque: what are all the classifications and distinctions involved in doing so?

02:38:47 trinque: how many interesting relationships exist?

02:39:21 phf: gribble returns identical strings for everyone, so there's no way to know if verify request is directed to you or someone else

02:39:27 gabriel_laddel: Allegrocache is the only lisp solution that will work for this size dataset afaik, and I've spent a lot of time looking.

02:39:30 gabriel_laddel: trinque:

02:39:57 trinque: yeah, looked at that

02:40:03 ben_vulpes: or perhaps we want to track quality ratings for *every widget produced*

02:40:28 ben_vulpes: coviariance analysis with shop humidity at the time

02:40:30 ben_vulpes: trains going by

02:40:44 trinque: mhm, should be able to add classifications at will all day long

02:40:55 trinque: and I wanna goddamn *see* the relationships

02:41:07 trinque: or why did I build this cockpit for my business at all?

02:41:13 trinque: so I could memorize it all and go on my gut?

02:41:32 gabriel_laddel: lol

02:43:45 trinque: gabriel_laddel: notably data modeling and analysis is one of the Franz offerings

02:43:48 trinque: didn't surprise me at all

02:47:14 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, jurov, mircea_popescu, et al: http://imgur.com/a/ED5Nl

02:47:15 assbot: Miracast Internals - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqkIAW )

02:47:35 asciilifeform: (if you have one of these, and it is not obvious how to open it - use a very sharp knife.)

02:48:14 asciilifeform: i found it interesting how the 802.11 module is anchored with just 6 solder balls - wonder what the protocol is

02:49:38 asciilifeform: better pics than mine: http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?s=64d51233e96e8197f7ed78e398986916&attachmentid=2904114&d=1408479756 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?s=64d51233e96e8197f7ed78e398986916&attachmentid=2904115&d=1408479756

02:49:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oql4HY )

02:49:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oql3ne )

02:49:58 asciilifeform: (though his unit is not entirely the same)

02:49:59 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-07-2015#1206849 <<< but what about getting a 2nd monitor so you can watch 2 fullscreen pornos at once

02:49:59 assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 00:34:13; mircea_popescu: but past that... who the fuck cares.

02:50:50 *: trinque imagines cazalla trying to cross his eyes to look at both

02:50:53 trinque: lol

02:54:55 ben_vulpes: v expensive 3d solution

02:55:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51118 @ 0.00056031 = 28.6419 BTC [-] {2}

02:56:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36527 @ 0.00055158 = 20.1476 BTC [-] {2}

03:01:35 decimation: asciilifeform: re: solder balls: unfortunately sop these days

03:01:45 decimation: everything is lightly glued with shit solder

03:01:59 asciilifeform: decimation: in this case it was on account of the 802.11 thing ('realtek') being a separate pcb

03:02:10 decimation: ah yeah I see that

03:02:14 decimation: only on the edges too

03:02:28 decimation: well, what you expect for $12

03:02:37 asciilifeform: the thing works

03:03:03 asciilifeform: i cut it open in search of an obvious test point for uart

03:03:06 asciilifeform: (did not find such)

03:03:17 decimation: I assume that's a bga part (the cpu)

03:03:31 asciilifeform: cpu and ram were both bga

03:03:53 asciilifeform: radio (front), eeprom and vreg (back) - conventional

03:04:03 decimation: sux. they must have ripped out all the debug for production cheapness

03:04:28 asciilifeform: can read out / rewrite the rom if i had a soic16 crocodile (i presently lack one)

03:04:47 asciilifeform: got only the familiar soic8 that everyone has

03:05:19 asciilifeform: there may or may not be a public root exploit for these

03:05:28 asciilifeform: but i hate to rely on these

03:05:47 decimation: yeah, also there are probably hardware variants, according to your research

03:05:52 asciilifeform: on account of them being 'here today, gone tomorrow'

03:05:56 asciilifeform: (as was with 'chromecast')

03:07:20 decimation: obviously somebody is pumping these out by the mega-boat load

03:11:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25757 @ 0.00059018 = 15.2013 BTC [+] {2}

03:12:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2743 @ 0.00059018 = 1.6189 BTC [+]

03:19:50 gabriel_laddel: cazalla: how's the wife/child?

03:22:26 cazalla: gabriel_laddel, good but his tantrums have kicked up a notch and he climbs everything

03:22:42 cazalla: missus wants another but seems last months attempts didn't strike :P

03:23:44 gabriel_laddel: "climbs everything" < good to hear he's healthy

03:25:04 cazalla: he's pretty clever, stacked a couple pillows in order to get up on the tv unit

03:28:02 cazalla: enjoys books too which is good but reading jack and the beanstalk for 20th time each day gets a bit much, he's really picked up with that past 1-2 months bring us books to read him

03:28:17 gabriel_laddel: !

03:28:30 gabriel_laddel: sounds like a smart kid, good for you.

03:29:41 mod6: asciilifeform: nice pics. protocol? maybe i don't get what you're asking exactly, but it says "D8027G1"

03:29:59 cazalla: well, all parents like to think that of their kids but time will tell, i've read to him each day since he was born

03:30:22 trinque: that's a hell of a step in the right direction

03:30:49 gabriel_laddel: "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"

03:31:02 gabriel_laddel: "The Wheel of Time"

03:31:22 gabriel_laddel: fraudsters.com

03:31:50 gabriel_laddel: maybe that last one gets pushed back a few years\

03:32:10 cazalla: perhaps fraudsters when he is a bit older (side note - the story about the boy and the tree is a good one i'll read to him when a little older)

03:32:30 cazalla: http://fraudsters.com/2013/a-story-of-a-boy-and-a-tree/

03:32:30 assbot: A story of a boy and a tree on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JaKoRZ )

03:37:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97300 @ 0.00059067 = 57.4722 BTC [+] {3}

03:40:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00059129 = 21.3456 BTC [+] {2}

03:46:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.15099999 = 1.359 BTC [+] {2}

03:46:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.15090322 = 1.509 BTC [-] {2}

03:49:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.15099999 = 1.51 BTC [+] {2}

03:49:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.15090322 = 1.509 BTC [-] {2}

03:51:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.15099999 = 1.057 BTC [+]

03:52:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 11 @ 0.15090322 = 1.6599 BTC [-] {2}

03:54:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.15099999 = 1.661 BTC [+] {2}

03:55:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 12 @ 0.15090322 = 1.8108 BTC [-] {2}

03:57:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.15099999 = 1.359 BTC [+]

03:58:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 12 @ 0.15090322 = 1.8108 BTC [-] {2}

03:59:18 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, jurov, mircea_popescu, et al: found the test pads on that 'miracast' thing. they were, unsurprisingly, under the sticker.

04:00:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.15099999 = 1.812 BTC [+] {2}

04:01:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.15090322 = 1.509 BTC [-]

04:04:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 13 @ 0.15099999 = 1.963 BTC [+] {2}

04:04:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 14 @ 0.15090322 = 2.1126 BTC [-] {2}

04:06:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 13 @ 0.15099999 = 1.963 BTC [+] {2}

04:16:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24687 @ 0.00056448 = 13.9353 BTC [-] {2}

04:37:43 decimation: http://spacenews.com/china-eyes-purchase-of-sea-launch-assets/ < "Struggling commercial launch-service provider Sea Launch AG and its owner, Energia of Russia, are in talks with the Chinese government on selling the Sea Launch command ship and launch platform to Chinese interests that would station the system in international waters offshore China, industry officials said."

04:37:44 assbot: China Eyes Purchase of Sea Launch Assets - SpaceNews.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kfufw9 )

05:03:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89998 @ 0.00059234 = 53.3094 BTC [+] {5}

05:14:11 BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dw01g/worlds_first_bitcoin_only_mmorpg_with_possibility/

05:14:12 assbot: Worlds first Bitcoin only MMORPG with possibility to earn actual Satoshi's, Eulora is gaining momentum. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mf1E9D )

05:18:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00058117 = 11.7978 BTC [-]

06:03:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27473 @ 0.00057034 = 15.669 BTC [-]

06:10:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44576 @ 0.00057049 = 25.4302 BTC [+]

06:21:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88468 @ 0.00058089 = 51.3902 BTC [+] {2}

06:22:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2832 @ 0.00059287 = 1.679 BTC [+]

06:26:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113626 @ 0.00059344 = 67.4302 BTC [+] {4}

06:27:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56624 @ 0.00059945 = 33.9433 BTC [+] {3}

06:40:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71435 @ 0.00056466 = 40.3365 BTC [-] {2}

06:41:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151100 @ 0.00056086 = 84.7459 BTC [-] {3}

06:52:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73446 @ 0.00060033 = 44.0918 BTC [+] {3}

07:14:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74850 @ 0.00055337 = 41.4197 BTC [-] {4}

07:33:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15159 @ 0.00056862 = 8.6197 BTC [+] {2}

07:34:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17767 @ 0.00054599 = 9.7006 BTC [-]

07:51:10 punkman: !up rooder

07:52:01 rooder: so sell me an island

07:52:42 punkman: would you also like a bridge with that?

07:53:07 rooder: nah, ive a boat

07:54:39 punkman: banks reopen after 3 weeks

07:55:14 punkman: you can't get your money but they still call it a bank

07:55:21 rooder: meanwhile al buys unheard of island to open a cannery

07:55:29 rooder: all in bitcoin

07:56:02 rooder: 600 euro a week?

07:56:12 rooder: dats rood

07:56:56 punkman: 420 a week

07:57:16 rooder: oh

07:59:04 rooder: did you vote?

08:00:12 punkman: I got better things to do

08:01:01 rooder: no donkey?

08:02:22 rooder: busy working on bitcoin darkpools?

08:02:48 rooder: world is funny

08:03:11 rooder: greece is very broke

08:03:58 punkman: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/07/17-efsm-bridge-loan-greece/

08:04:01 assbot: EFSM: Council approves €7bn bridge loan to Greece - Consilium ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCCYpB )

08:04:01 rooder: is germany that frightened of turkish bread?

08:04:14 punkman: "The loan will have a maximum maturity of three months and will be disbursed in up to two instalments. It will allow Greece to clear its arrears with the IMF and the Bank of Greece and to repay the ECB, until Greece would start receiving financing under a new programme from the European Stability Mechanism"

08:06:47 rooder: i dont understand

08:08:14 rooder: you reside in england now?

08:08:40 rooder: where you dont need crowbars to final loans

08:09:23 punkman: yeah but all that rain

08:09:27 punkman: too wet

08:09:42 rooder: lol

08:10:07 rooder: you proley live down the road

08:11:15 rooder: that said the economics here are equally retarded\

08:13:00 rooder: have decimation look at it

08:13:27 rooder: little bit like nz little bit like france ... voila

08:13:41 rooder: bro

08:16:56 rooder: eat pig

08:19:46 rooder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zALx9vDhjWU

08:20:32 rooder: what does greece actually own?

08:21:13 rooder: no pigs no roads

08:21:30 rooder: some old math

08:25:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39050 @ 0.00055957 = 21.8512 BTC [+] {2}

08:33:43 BingoBoingo: !up nanaki

08:36:22 BingoBoingo: !up GoonClooney

08:36:27 BingoBoingo: !up wgromniak

08:39:05 nanaki: fraudsters.com is down now, I think.

08:40:22 BingoBoingo: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/revealed-why-slim-people-dislike-the-overweight-459459.html

08:40:23 assbot: Revealed: why slim people dislike the overweight - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1RIN52O )

08:40:30 BingoBoingo: ;;isup qntra.net

08:40:32 gribble: qntra.net is down

08:40:35 BingoBoingo: ;;isup fraudsters.com

08:40:38 gribble: fraudsters.com is down

08:40:40 BingoBoingo: :(

08:40:46 BingoBoingo: Much sad

08:42:07 nanaki: Must I wait 4-5 hours to meet mircea_popescu here?

08:42:27 Naphex: nanaki: you can just join when he's around

08:43:12 BingoBoingo: It's really hard to tell when he will return. Might be back in 5 minutes or 18 hours. Eulora made him even less predictable than before.

08:45:16 nanaki: thanks :)

08:45:16 cazalla: the great thing about irc though is that you can leave a message now and just tab back in an hour, tmw or even next week

08:45:18 BingoBoingo: !up hazirafel

08:45:25 BingoBoingo: !up shesek

08:45:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41200 @ 0.00057582 = 23.7238 BTC [+] {2}

08:46:34 punkman: !up rooder

08:52:54 rooder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kcet4aPpQ

08:54:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61612 @ 0.00054585 = 33.6309 BTC [-] {2}

08:56:53 rooder: blondie next

08:58:54 rooder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGU_4-5RaxU

08:58:55 assbot: Blondie - Heart Of Glass - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HEaPx2 )

09:02:36 rooder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgPUxjQOk-w

09:03:25 nanaki: My (nanaki's) message to mircea_popescu: I have placed a bet on bitbet.us and sent BTCs and successfully confirmed at block# 366130 but the website doesn't apply it. The bottom of the page says "Last block: 1 hour 4 minutes ago (366131)" so it must have applied my bet. ==> SOLVED: the site reflected my bet 1h 18m later since confirmed. Usually the reflection is quick so I slightly panicked! Thank you.

09:03:26 rooder: David Bowie - D.J.

09:08:43 rooder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6myNbk15sMs <<

09:08:45 assbot: Lightning Seeds - Pure - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1RIPXwE )

09:21:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80582 @ 0.00056746 = 45.7271 BTC [+] {4}

09:31:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71362 @ 0.0005842 = 41.6897 BTC [+]

09:55:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49838 @ 0.00058898 = 29.3536 BTC [+] {2}

09:56:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00057986 = 9.9736 BTC [-]

10:28:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85550 @ 0.00059922 = 51.2633 BTC [+]

10:38:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86254 @ 0.00059922 = 51.6851 BTC [+]

10:42:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00059922 = 6.0521 BTC [+]

10:56:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60984 @ 0.00059922 = 36.5428 BTC [+]

11:16:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89498 @ 0.00060014 = 53.7113 BTC [+] {4}

11:23:59 mircea_popescu: aww someone got butthurt ?

11:25:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71400 @ 0.00058952 = 42.0917 BTC [-] {2}

11:35:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00058334 = 8.1084 BTC [-]

11:38:02 mircea_popescu: 311M 996G LOGDROPIN all -- !lo * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0 lulz

11:45:53 mircea_popescu: incidentally kakobrekla could assbot be changed so instead of dropping a bitly links it drops an archive.today link ?

11:46:01 mircea_popescu: at least get an archive for teh effort.

11:46:32 kakobrekla: ill check

11:46:38 mircea_popescu: danke

11:50:22 mircea_popescu: !up hazirafel

11:50:50 hazirafel: would you use a program that sends bitcoin to the cruch of satane very time you enter facebook?

11:50:58 hazirafel: curch

11:51:13 mircea_popescu: i don't have a facebook ?

11:51:26 mircea_popescu: and what's "enter" anyway, every time you load a webpage that pulls their fucktarded button ?

11:51:28 hazirafel: good

11:51:39 hazirafel: no

11:51:40 mircea_popescu: for that matter what's "the church of satan"

11:51:46 mircea_popescu: well no. why not.

11:51:47 hazirafel: google it

11:51:56 hazirafel: oks

11:52:18 mircea_popescu: google is not in my wot.

11:52:39 hazirafel: look it up in the phone book :)

11:53:42 cazalla: hazirafel, why the CoS instead of some other charity?

11:53:58 hazirafel: just a thought

11:54:11 hazirafel: something not liked/funny

11:55:19 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/2EASGTJ << the denyin reference for that 311M pkts logdropin thing, on the off chance anyone gives a shit about the details

11:55:39 mircea_popescu: pro tip : if your AN is in there you're a fucktard, i don't care if your name is "verizon"

11:56:24 mircea_popescu: s/AN/ASN/

11:56:48 cazalla: hazirafel, i would suggest the Human Fund

11:57:26 mircea_popescu: heh

11:58:17 hazirafel: this? http://www.the-human-fund.org/heritage/

11:58:18 assbot: About — The Human Fund ... ( http://bit.ly/1LmJlAa )

11:59:07 cazalla: whatever

11:59:41 hazirafel: thanks

11:59:53 mircea_popescu: ahahaha what!

12:00:01 mircea_popescu: hazirafel it's a seinfeld reference.

12:00:27 mircea_popescu: and here's something to bother my man cazalla : http://38.media.tumblr.com/d79ced52386260419f282a6cbea59cc0/tumblr_n5oxc1uPJp1trwqu4o1_400.gif

12:00:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LmJBiF )

12:00:52 cazalla: lol why would that bother me

12:00:57 hazirafel: art

12:01:22 mircea_popescu: a well, was worth a shot.

12:03:26 cazalla: speaking of Seinfeld.. "On Wednesday (April 29) the online streaming service Hulu struck a deal with the ?show about nothing,? paying $700,000 per episode ($130 million) for the rights to add the series to its already stellar lineup."

12:10:49 mircea_popescu: not bad

12:10:55 mircea_popescu: dude makes money while sleeping.

12:14:41 hazirafel: heh

12:14:54 hazirafel: maybe i'll watch the episode

12:18:04 mircea_popescu: btw cazalla qntra should be back now. not sure how long it'll hold, but - publish anything you may have backing up your publishpipes

12:18:10 mircea_popescu: and archive the pages lol.

12:20:37 cazalla: thankfully it's been quiet, BingoBoingo might have one or had one in mind though

12:22:31 mircea_popescu: aww.

12:23:22 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nanaki find a better hobby, what can i tell you.

12:23:23 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:24:39 mircea_popescu: my quest to disturb cazalla continues. http://38.media.tumblr.com/8824129a0d3e247174ee10e89fd30918/tumblr_myl0k5QvGj1qjhn09o2_400.gif

12:25:45 cazalla: that's a pretty fail attempt tbh

12:25:54 mircea_popescu: ;/

12:26:05 mircea_popescu: ima go cut

12:26:07 mircea_popescu: some grass now.

12:26:51 cazalla: sok for another woman to lick an ass, just don't ask me to do it, sorta how fucking twins is fine as you're not the one committing incest

12:27:48 mircea_popescu: how are you not lol

12:28:01 mircea_popescu: you think the married woman is committing adultery alone ?

12:28:50 kakobrekla: whats the difference between female tongue and male tongue ???

12:29:18 mircea_popescu: female tongue is split

12:29:27 mircea_popescu: no wait, i was thinking of the wrong species.

12:29:33 cazalla: kakobrekla, i don't know, it's not about that anyway, i just don't fancy sticking my tongue there but to each their own

12:30:05 mircea_popescu: cazalla well you realise if your bar for being bothered is "being pictures of ME doing things", i got god's own work cut out for me here...

12:30:12 cazalla: mircea_popescu, how is it an incestous act for me if i am not related to them?

12:31:12 mircea_popescu: cuz you're in it.

12:31:44 cazalla: fuck, so be it then if it mean doing twins

12:32:06 mircea_popescu: ehehe.

12:32:26 mircea_popescu: problem with doing twins is that, like anything else in life, you get used to it.

12:32:50 cazalla: and nothing much bothers me, why should i be bothered someone else enjoys giving rimjobs

12:33:20 cazalla: i'll have to take your word for it as this is a problem i doubt i will ever have

12:33:43 mircea_popescu: anyway. my grassy knoll awaits. later!

12:39:16 cazalla: it's only smellz

12:47:16 shinohai: http://gizmodo.com/hackers-threaten-to-expose-40-million-cheating-ashleyma-1718965334

12:47:17 assbot: Hackers Threaten to Expose 37 Million Cheating AshleyMadison Users ... ( http://bit.ly/1TLVEr6 )

13:18:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91988 @ 0.00057922 = 53.2813 BTC [-] {2}

13:19:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32678 @ 0.00057293 = 18.7222 BTC [-] {2}

13:37:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00059668 = 7.19 BTC [+]

13:47:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31750 @ 0.00058489 = 18.5703 BTC [-]

13:59:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25812 @ 0.00058489 = 15.0972 BTC [-]

14:08:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46250 @ 0.0005728 = 26.492 BTC [-]

14:10:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44050 @ 0.00056223 = 24.7662 BTC [-] {2}

14:35:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22809 @ 0.00055666 = 12.6969 BTC [-]

14:39:30 decimation: my blk0009.dat diverges from mod6's too - one of my blk0008.dat matches his (sha256sums). Something weird happens in blk0009 (approx block height < 300k)

14:40:02 decimation: my blk0009.dat 6f230687f04b41d5cc3d5f3b9cdd497c1b9103394eeda96cef1d0998b3c5d185 : I'm syncing from ascii's node using 'stator'

14:40:34 *: shinohai should try a resync to ascii's node

14:41:37 mod6: as a reminder tho, those hashes of my .dat files were from "the wild" sync.

14:42:07 mod6: i'll be revisiting this not too long from now with some hashes from mp's orig chain

14:45:31 shinohai: @ mod6 does the MP node sync past the phork now?

14:45:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2863 @ 0.00055666 = 1.5937 BTC [-]

14:46:15 mod6: haven't gotten there yet on nsl's node

14:46:26 mod6: height=351462

14:46:34 shinohai: ah k

14:46:43 mod6: my openbsd one is crawling along.

14:46:57 shinohai: I haven't synced stator yet. My release 0.5.3 is still up always though.

14:46:58 mod6: height=205332

14:47:09 mod6: 0.5.3.1 ?

14:47:15 shinohai: yeah that one

14:47:21 mod6: nice, what block are you on?

14:48:16 shinohai: 366172 it updated but on regular blockchain

14:50:19 mod6: did it sync the same way from block 0->current in the same manner, i.e. by finding nodes all over irc?

14:52:44 shinohai: mod6 yes it only connected to irc nodes i guess, since it is before the irc demolition.

14:53:04 mod6: good deal man.

14:53:08 shinohai: pogo is on hold until I get an ssd, still is a great chat server

14:53:11 mod6: thanks for reporting back on that

14:53:34 mod6: haha, pogo chat server?

14:53:49 shinohai: It's nice being the first guy to destroy a SATA installing arch on a pogo

14:54:09 mod6: it bricked the drive?

14:57:46 shinohai: yeah. made a screech and was gone. I have had that one forever though. I got 5 more old satas but I should just do things right with an ssd

14:58:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00055316 = 1.7701 BTC [-]

14:58:06 mod6: yikes, threw a bering 'eh

14:58:11 shinohai: yup

14:58:44 mod6: well, thanks for putting in the effort to test this stuff, we appreciate it.

14:59:02 mod6: effort & parts!

14:59:20 shinohai: I love this shit, takes me a bit of time to catch up with you warriors, but I'm getting there.

15:00:51 mod6: for sure. thanks, we need all the help we can get.

15:01:08 shinohai: Buying a pogo with btc that was on my 0.5.3. node was kinda cool too.

15:02:10 asciilifeform: i thought everybody knew, at this point, that one cannot expect to end up with same blkxxxx at all times, on account of forklets.

15:03:29 shinohai: I kinda figured that but what can you do.

15:03:41 asciilifeform: in other nyooz, 69 active connections on s.nsa's node.

15:03:48 asciilifeform: new recordz every day.

15:04:08 mod6: <+asciilifeform> i thought everybody knew, at this point, that one cannot expect to end up with same blkxxxx at all times, on account of forklets. << yeah i recall.

15:04:45 mod6: i guess more importantly than that, im gonna do a for(0->366XXX) dump of each block and hash it, compare it to the list that you ended up with ascii.

15:05:16 asciilifeform: somebody found a bug in 'blkcut' but did not follow up re: replicating

15:05:20 mod6: 69! yeah, we need more nodes.

15:05:23 asciilifeform: ( danielpbarron ? )

15:05:40 mod6: is this the one where blkcut error made it fall over?

15:05:44 asciilifeform: aha

15:06:07 shinohai: asciilifeform: which is the nsa lab node at again?

15:07:24 mod6: same ip

15:07:45 asciilifeform: 195.211.154.159:8333

15:08:22 shinohai: @ mod6 when I raise a few more btc and a few bugs worked out, I am going to put 2 more up, one at my gf's house and one at my friends.

15:08:54 mod6: heheh. well, just make sure if you /do/ put up a node, it is somewhat phasar resistant

15:09:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00055316 = 4.5912 BTC [-]

15:09:25 mod6: I'm gonna put up a few too, but gotta wait about 6 wks.

15:09:26 mod6: ;/

15:10:11 shinohai: me too. First ssd, then expansion. >;3

15:11:05 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://xkcd.com/1553

15:11:09 assbot: xkcd: Public Key ... ( http://bit.ly/1JbHqgh )

15:11:09 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:11:46 shinohai: dat comic

15:13:12 mod6: haha

15:15:30 shinohai: Also, if anyone needs proofreaing and ed work done this week I am free to work :D

15:16:02 mod6: actually...

15:16:33 mod6: if you're looking for something to keep you busy for an evening, you can test out the gentoo x86-64 nomultilib guide

15:16:39 mod6: :]

15:16:52 mod6: we need a 3rd person to verify this thing so i can finally send it to the lst.

15:17:16 shinohai: link me. I have never installed gentoo in my life, but a good time to learn

15:19:44 mod6: ah, yeah, so ... this guide is for a physical box (takes you through using livecd) -- if you wanna set it up in a VM im sure you can do something similar with a livecd, just hvae to attach the iso file to the virtual dvd/cdrom drive.. and probably follow the same steps.

15:20:21 mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-nomultilib-guide.txt && http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-uclibc-hardened-guide-wFullExamples.txt

15:20:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JbIAZ3 )

15:20:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JbID76 )

15:20:31 mod6: bah. ignore that second one. that's for uclibc.

15:20:58 mod6: here's the second one with full examples for nomultilib: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-nomultilib-guide-wFullExamples.txt

15:21:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JbIHnx )

15:21:45 shinohai: Thanks mod6 I'll get on it this evenin'

15:21:57 *: shinohai usually ignores notes on distros besides his own

15:24:35 mod6: shinohai: awesome! no rush either. when you get time is cool. let me know how it goes, i'll be around to answer q's.

15:25:20 shinohai: np an education is a terrible thing to waste.

15:25:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65332 @ 0.00055429 = 36.2129 BTC [+] {2}

15:25:34 mod6: the first doc is just the commands you need, so it's kinda cut/pasteable. the second is the commands with their output so you can get a sense of what you should expect to see.

15:25:55 shinohai: I'm a masochist and type everything LOL

15:26:08 mod6: haha, no worries. that's fine too.

15:28:21 shinohai: Time is the most important asset for testing. I still want to prove that a small group can outproduce the "bitcoin foundation" sans their immense budget they blew.

15:30:03 asciilifeform: outproduce ?

15:30:24 shinohai: outproduce: Make a better product.

15:33:03 shinohai: Or a more high-performing one.

15:36:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109083 @ 0.00056146 = 61.2457 BTC [+] {2}

15:59:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33917 @ 0.00056865 = 19.2869 BTC [+]

16:34:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.00055196 = 36.7881 BTC [-] {2}

16:59:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00055086 = 20.2716 BTC [-]

17:13:04 trinque: RUN MOAR GENTOO

17:17:05 asciilifeform: ?

17:17:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52808 @ 0.00056298 = 29.7298 BTC [+]

17:27:41 shinohai: whelp it seems pogos make excellent mining controllers, not that I mine anymore.

17:32:21 trinque: asciilifeform: sincerely.

17:32:38 trinque: shinohai: guide's really easy

17:33:21 shinohai: Looks so trinque, and I hopped on craigslist and bought a shitty laptop for $100

17:33:26 trinque: nice.

17:33:31 shinohai: So new toy for later yay

17:33:47 trinque: they've got "Free Geek" here for scrap

17:33:54 trinque: I tend to make my way there once a week or so

17:35:30 shinohai: I wish we had something like that here. I blow so much on used equipment xD

17:35:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.00055086 = 29.4159 BTC [-]

17:36:17 trinque: shinohai: sometimes goodwill also has an electronics dept, depending on where you're at

17:37:05 shinohai: Yeah but they have incredibly shitty electronics at our Goodwill. I usually troll craigslist and sometimes get free parts.

17:37:19 shinohai: But today, pickings were slim and I needed a spare lappy

17:45:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68350 @ 0.00054738 = 37.4134 BTC [-] {4}

17:51:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ty but no :D

17:54:01 mircea_popescu: shinohai working on the 950kb bogus block atm.

17:54:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: working how? single-stepping the thing ?

17:55:00 shinohai: Thank you for your continued dedication.

17:56:11 mircea_popescu: poor mod6 no time to mine because all this foundation stuff fell on his head.

17:56:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically.

17:57:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36952 @ 0.00054514 = 20.144 BTC [-]

18:02:01 mod6: haha

18:02:47 mircea_popescu: to continue the chick in rubber skin thread, http://38.media.tumblr.com/c42b2ab51e7e9e85ad0c04c935504746/tumblr_n3u2tstiHD1rnqh33o2_r1_500.gif

18:02:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mga9S0 )

18:11:16 mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone amused at how the "mainstream media" took all of five seconds to decide random white dude was "racially motivated" blowing up a black church, wheras they're still "trying to look for motives" that paki dude shot up the marines ?

18:11:22 mircea_popescu: sandniggers can't be raceist!

18:11:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this apparatus works, i was told, like the ubiquitous kitchen vacuum sealer machine. but with an airhole. it is popular where i live, i was told.

18:11:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite so yes.

18:12:02 mircea_popescu: and i suspect all this is autism related and should prolly be a med insurance deductable, like kinetotherapy.

18:12:20 asciilifeform: kinda reminds me of the 'why not connect air compressor to the tuba' concept

18:12:27 asciilifeform: not everything oughta be mechanized

18:12:56 mircea_popescu: there is this particular thing in autists where being compressed widely helps

18:15:28 asciilifeform: the chick who told me about the vacuum bed was into it as a straight bdsm thing iirc

18:23:56 trinque: man that thing makes me uncomfortable

18:24:18 trinque: anybody ever wants my launch codes, there's the way

18:24:58 asciilifeform: peine forte et dure !!

18:27:55 trinque: mircea_popescu: I could see it being nice for people with sensory overload issues

18:28:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17809 @ 0.0005607 = 9.9855 BTC [+]

18:33:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98979 @ 0.00055194 = 54.6305 BTC [-] {2}

18:34:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6621 @ 0.00054514 = 3.6094 BTC [-]

18:39:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00056298 = 2.7023 BTC [+]

18:53:11 lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=4294967297 (Sven Arnold ; )

18:54:34 shinohai: Another one bites the dust.

18:56:09 trinque: mod6: BingoBoingo: what are your opinions on using random-id and reassemble tcp in incoming traffic through pf?

18:56:28 trinque: and more generally, any recommended practices?

18:56:46 *: trinque has found the openbsd manpages to be in a class of their own

18:56:59 trinque: exceptionally thorough

19:03:41 mod6: trinque: what are you trying to achieve?

19:04:04 trinque: mod6: best practices for home router with several hosts behind it

19:05:21 mod6: im not positive (i don't have access to my pf.conf atm) that i've ever used random-id. i think that's for a very specific problem. but yeah you probably /do/ want scrub all reassemble tcp

19:05:33 trinque: cool, am doing that

19:10:04 mod6: looks like you can use random-id for some normalizatoin purposes... main thing is here, read the pf.conf man page 2x and then build up your firewall and use the heck outta tcpdump to ensure what your rule set is as you want it.

19:10:32 mod6: start simple, then build in more complexity as only necessary.

19:14:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54642 @ 0.00056848 = 31.0629 BTC [+] {2}

19:15:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29379 @ 0.0005685 = 16.702 BTC [+]

19:15:18 BingoBoingo: Looks like Qntra survived this weekend better than Gawker did https://archive.is/joOPE

19:17:51 BingoBoingo: mod6: BingoBoingo: what are your opinions on using random-id and reassemble tcp in incoming traffic through pf? << Haven't used either of those yet. Pretty much use block, pass, and queue

19:18:55 trinque: k

19:19:30 trinque: former seems like handling internal host derpage (winblowz for example)

19:19:42 trinque: latter seems to have to do with hiding facts about the inner network topology

19:19:47 BingoBoingo: Then don't have derpy internal hosts

19:20:33 trinque: yeah

19:21:18 trinque: maybe asciilifeform's perspective on mitigations applies to the latter

19:21:48 trinque: rather, both

19:32:20 asciilifeform: wai wat

19:32:31 trinque: asciilifeform: re aslr and other things

19:32:51 trinque: seemed to be a point about superficial mitigations vs fixing the underlying issue

19:33:01 trinque: in this case it'd be as BingoBoingo said, don't have fucking dumb hosts that can't TCP

19:33:05 *: asciilifeform does not play whackamole

19:33:13 *: asciilifeform will not encourage others to play it

19:33:23 trinque: yeah

19:38:14 punkman: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1177298

19:39:19 trinque: braindamage

19:40:26 mod6: asciilifeform: ever get a chance to look at those bins?

19:40:36 asciilifeform: unfortunately not

19:40:47 mod6: np. it can wait for a bit.

19:41:30 mod6: the openssl configure script (perl lel) seems to indicate that no-shared is the default -- but i wanna be sure.

19:42:44 mod6: openssl-1.0.1g # grep "my \$no_shared" Configure \ my $no_shared=0; # but "no-shared" is default

19:42:45 scoopbot_revived: Ashley Madison Hacked http://qntra.net/2015/07/ashley-madison-hacked/

19:42:48 mod6: wat

19:42:52 mod6: oh

19:43:37 asciilifeform: 'and leaving their interesting and activities oriented towards extramarital dating exposed.' << ?

19:44:21 mod6: strangely worded

19:44:48 trinque: might've meant "interest"

19:44:55 trinque: whole sentence needs to be chopped and screwed

19:52:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46899 @ 0.00057176 = 26.815 BTC [+] {2}

19:53:15 hanbot: ey mircea_popescu http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-cryptocold-war-bitcoins-politics-of-scalability-cm497963

19:54:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00055508 = 11.7122 BTC [-]

19:54:01 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/Bvp9c << Just in case

19:54:33 mircea_popescu: hanbot heh

19:55:06 asciilifeform: l0l!

19:55:31 mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu, who is opposed to scalability due to his vocal disdain for ?the poor?

19:55:32 mircea_popescu: derp.

19:55:53 mircea_popescu: i am not opposed "to scalability". i am opposed to very specific idiocy for very clearly delineated technical reasons.

19:56:01 hanbot: srsly, why's "the poor" in quotes?!

19:56:36 mircea_popescu: i just don't happen to be clueless enough to confuse those for "Scalability". considering i am not actually a technical expert, this reflects very poorly opn the intellectual abilities and assorted scholarship of random derps opining on nasdaq.com

19:57:18 mircea_popescu: and in any case - it's not some "disain for the poor" that's at work. just because everyone is on a (mostly hypocritical) fixation on loving the poor does not make my position disdain

19:57:35 mircea_popescu: i merely do not give enough of a shit about the cause celebre du jour to neglect technical arguments for its sake.

19:58:10 mircea_popescu: if anyone still has a twitter account, maybe link the derp to the above. you never know when athlete face learns something from the internets.

19:59:18 mircea_popescu: "The views and opinions expressed herein are the views and opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of The NASDAQ OMX Group, Inc." mmmmkay... then why are you publishing it ?

19:59:57 mircea_popescu: "oh, because fiat glbse is so desperate for <> they're resorting to the politically correct version of spun content & keyword stuffing" ? kthx.

20:01:32 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: fxd

20:01:48 mircea_popescu: if my father weren't a total fuckwit, he'd have told me "my son, you'll make a billion dollars before you'll read a two page item about you that manages to eschew glaring errors".

20:01:56 mircea_popescu: that'd have been interesting to know twenty years ago.

20:03:20 mircea_popescu: trinque i think the manuals are the secret reason keeping any bsd userbase.

20:03:28 mircea_popescu: strangely enough, nobody seems to learn anything from this.

20:03:54 chetty: visa doesn't dicriminate against 'the poor', they just either don't give them credit or charge them bucket for it

20:04:15 mircea_popescu: Looks like Qntra survived this weekend better than Gawker did https://archive.is/joOPE << kinda hard to keep a job that doesn't come with a salary i guess.

20:04:21 trinque: mircea_popescu: makes sense, they're excellent.

20:04:35 mircea_popescu: trinque yeah. more important for a powerful foss than gcc.

20:04:50 mircea_popescu: the one thing closed source can never do is good docs.

20:05:05 mircea_popescu: somehow the bright strategic minds involved missed this point.

20:05:29 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Oh those were the paid, pretentious herders of the unpaid. But since Denton clamped down on their lulz Apparently herding interns is too much nao.

20:06:00 BingoBoingo: the one thing closed source can never do is good docs. << But then how would they sell support as a seperate product?

20:06:04 mod6: I linked him

20:06:36 mircea_popescu: the "sell support" model has been thoroughly debunked in the field. or at least that's the moral i draw from revierwing history.

20:06:56 mircea_popescu: the only endpoint for that is where rhel ended up : a cheaper USG Department of Windows.

20:07:31 mircea_popescu: if that's what you aim to do with your life, go to new york join the police force.

20:07:39 BingoBoingo: "sell support" worked for cisco and oracle when marketing to the helpless and overencumbered with bezzle

20:07:40 mircea_popescu: better union, better insurance, etc.

20:08:43 mircea_popescu: it pointedly did not work foir cisco.

20:08:53 mircea_popescu: it took them to the same dark place, and recently cost them their entire business.

20:08:56 asciilifeform: meanwhile i'm about to stand up another node!

20:09:00 mircea_popescu: yay.

20:09:01 mod6: http://twitter.com/modsix/status/623222065982607360

20:09:10 asciilifeform: (likely, no sooner than tomorrow noon. but it is cooking, yes)

20:09:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you paying for the server or just using one already deployed ?

20:09:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: using a box i've been hiring for years, 'in case'

20:09:51 mircea_popescu: aha. if you wish to pro-rate towards nsa budget i'll ok it.

20:10:10 asciilifeform: it's a cheapo box with a 10meg line and 70gb disk

20:10:25 asciilifeform: probably will fill some time reasonably soon, at which point i'll finally cancel the contract on it

20:10:50 mircea_popescu: k

20:11:27 asciilifeform: gonna stand up more boxes in various places, incl. phriends who expressed interest

20:11:43 mircea_popescu: cool deal.

20:12:37 mircea_popescu: lol @ mod6 s twitter location

20:12:41 BingoBoingo: Not even a year and thing's now something to stand up on boxes

20:12:43 mircea_popescu: how's the weather this time o year ?

20:12:57 mod6: Wonderful :]

20:12:59 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo incredibru huh ? one alf plows like 1024 chickens.

20:13:30 mod6: Can only check teh weather if in assbots L2. Which is very temperate.

20:13:33 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously

20:13:43 mircea_popescu: ehehe

20:16:46 asciilifeform: moar patchez in the pipe, too

20:17:10 asciilifeform: one (optional...!) to set a version string that actually displays to folks like 'bitnodes'

20:17:12 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/status/623164818971713536

20:17:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00057411 = 23.4237 BTC [+]

20:17:26 asciilifeform: and another (also experimental) that adds 'flushmempool'

20:18:27 BingoBoingo: ^ China now doing the biggest SQL join in history. #AshleyMadison #OPMhack

20:18:36 asciilifeform: l0l

20:18:45 *: asciilifeform bbl

20:18:48 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

20:21:25 mircea_popescu: ". The essence of Gawker has always been what happens when we get out of those meetings and go back to writing and editing the stories you do that no one else can do. "

20:21:27 mircea_popescu: dude srsly ?

20:21:41 mircea_popescu: these schmucks actually thought they do something remarkable in any sense ?

20:22:00 mircea_popescu: fascinating what derps actually sell themselves into. gawker editorial actually thinks it's more than a branded chicken coop

20:22:10 mircea_popescu: they probably imagine they ever published anything worth reading, too.

20:22:13 mircea_popescu: nuts.

20:22:44 mircea_popescu: next i'm gonna hear shit farmers in kenya think they're pulling the sun up each morning.

20:30:57 chetty: next i'm gonna hear shit farmers in kenya think they're pulling the sun up each morning.// they aren't?

20:31:07 mircea_popescu: obviously.

20:31:08 mats: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/ct-lockheed-martin-sikorsky-aircraft-20150720-story.html

20:31:09 assbot: Lockheed Martin to buy Sikorsky Aircraft for $9 billion - Chicago Tribune ... ( http://bit.ly/1OiflTR )

20:31:22 mircea_popescu: kinda funny to see the us reduced to the 50th state of the great nation of africa, but then again

20:31:27 mircea_popescu: not my country, not my problem.

20:32:48 shinohai: http://www.amazon.com/Baconlube--Flavored-Massage-Personal-Lubricant/dp/B00XQENVUS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437373740&sr=8-1&keywords=bacon+lube

20:32:50 assbot: Amazon.com: Baconlube- Bacon Flavored Massage Oil & Personal Lubricant by J&D's: Health & Personal Care ... ( http://bit.ly/1OifAhz )

20:33:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, the one notable thing re gawker is that the twerps smokling the crack pipe of radical-this-and-that do not have either the intellectual wherewithal to notice nor the mental acumen to actually create THEIR OWN FUCKING BLOGS.

20:33:31 scoopbot_revived: Kickass Torrents Dropped From Google Search Results http://qntra.net/2015/07/kickass-torrents-dropped-from-google-search-results/

20:33:42 mircea_popescu: seriously, you gotta write emails to the staff about stuff like this ?

20:33:48 mircea_popescu: because why, it's 1715 all over again ?

20:35:24 mircea_popescu: "oh here's a backroom napkin scribbled with my protest over the culture of backroom dealing these people imported into our fine organisation of delusions of transparency. i am too stupid to understand how ridiculous i'm being. NEOTENY FOR THE VICTORY!!11"

20:35:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00057285 = 21.7683 BTC [-]

20:36:49 mircea_popescu: gawker does "radical transparency" don't you know. when you fuck with me you can read all about it on fraudsters, but it's gawker that's radically transparent. a bunch of twerps whose names nobody even happens to know. paragons in their own minds of things they don't understand, nor would understand even if they actually tried thinking about 'em.

20:36:54 mircea_popescu: fucking monkeys already.

20:40:05 BingoBoingo: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/07/20/1233229/amd-catalyst-linux-driver-performs-wildly-different-based-on-programs-name

20:40:07 assbot: AMD Catalyst Linux Driver Performs Wildly Different Based On Program's Name - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OigmLK )

20:40:41 mircea_popescu: coming up next, "top 5 best program names for amd compatibility"

20:42:39 BingoBoingo: Apparently doom3.x86 is a good one

20:43:03 BingoBoingo: Also a journey to the mind of a Windows User https://archive.is/Kq7JT

20:43:04 assbot: CEO-011 comments on [CRITICAL] Windows users: Update your machine NOW! ... ( http://bit.ly/1JcDVWW )

20:46:35 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/b7ffaed85dc3cc4f937cbc57d46e2d58/tumblr_n2m74yD7d21sjyuzzo1_500.jpg

20:46:36 assbot: ... ( https://archive.is/http://41.media.tumblr.com/b7ffaed85dc3cc4f937cbc57d46e2d58/tumblr_n2m74yD7d21sjyuzzo1_500.jpg )

20:46:44 mircea_popescu: HA-ha!

20:46:49 mircea_popescu: my suspicions...

20:47:26 mircea_popescu: now if it also worked...

20:47:43 kakobrekla: what

20:47:53 kakobrekla: click de archive this url.

20:49:26 kakobrekla: or ?

20:49:53 mircea_popescu: ah two clicks away.

20:50:06 mircea_popescu: good enough i guess.

20:50:48 kakobrekla: that parsing and saving is very slow on some sites and i dunno if we want to hit him with everything ?

20:51:22 mircea_popescu: yeah makes sense.

20:51:39 mircea_popescu: if anyone cares they can click.

20:57:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98300 @ 0.00056044 = 55.0913 BTC [-] {4}

21:22:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40999 @ 0.00055064 = 22.5757 BTC [-] {2}

21:23:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22901 @ 0.00054514 = 12.4843 BTC [-]

21:25:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00054466 = 16.4487 BTC [-] {3}

21:50:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51100 @ 0.00055301 = 28.2588 BTC [+] {2}

22:26:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69817 @ 0.00054389 = 37.9728 BTC [-] {2}

22:36:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51228 @ 0.00055308 = 28.3332 BTC [+]

22:39:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45300 @ 0.00056223 = 25.469 BTC [+]

22:50:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00056223 = 7.7026 BTC [+]

22:58:56 phf: fascinating what derps actually sell themselves into. gawker editorial actually thinks it's more than a branded chicken coop << from a limited experience, that seems like a sop in certain kind of sillicon-valley inspired u.s. company. a combination of "you can do anything!" with worst sort of delusions of grandeur.

22:59:59 phf: ties nicely with that tlp article about "the real me"

23:09:10 trinque: phf: yeah, these companies practically force their employees to take part in it

23:09:54 gernika: That's the reason I can't work as a startup employee anymore: they want you to *believe*

23:09:55 trinque: can't just do your job; you have to be drunk on whatever half-assed propaganda they came up with

23:10:02 trinque: gernika: indeed.

23:11:02 *: trinque tosses "passionate" on the american pyre

23:16:51 phf: i worked for one such company last year, joined out of curiousity, but stayed to finish projects i was responsible for. the amount of dysfunctional behavior was staggering.

23:17:54 phf: they had socially mandatory fist bumps, instead of hand shakes, by way of greeting.

23:19:41 phf: ceo would regularly send out "vote for us as the best place to work in the city", "vote for me as the best ceo"

23:20:58 gernika: phf Did you have to endure a hackathon?

23:22:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-07-2015#1207955 << ample precedent for this crap. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=163 -- and also that famous find where 'skype' turned out to slow deliberately when CPUID instruction returned something other than intel

23:22:25 assbot: Logged on 20-07-2015 20:40:05; BingoBoingo: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/07/20/1233229/amd-catalyst-linux-driver-performs-wildly-different-based-on-programs-name

23:22:26 assbot: Loper OS » How to un-break graphical Java apps under Ratpoison ... ( https://archive.is/http://www.loper-os.org/?p=163 )

23:23:02 phf: gernika: i didn't have to endure much, except shortage of competent underlings, but i witnessed cto organizing hackathon for other teams, and it was painful. blind leading the blind

23:23:36 asciilifeform: ;;isup qntra.net

23:23:39 gribble: qntra.net is down

23:23:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al ^

23:25:31 asciilifeform: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-cryptocold-war-bitcoins-politics-of-scalability-cm497963#/comment-2146567362 << extra-lulzy

23:25:32 assbot: The Crypto-Cold War: Bitcoin's Politics of Scalability - NASDAQ.com ... ( https://archive.is/http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-cryptocold-war-bitcoins-politics-of-scalability-cm497963#/comment-2146567362 )

23:27:17 phf: it took me a while to even realize that the majority of employees had less then 3 years of programming experience, majority of managers had no software project experiences, etc. i didn't really understand until experiencing it first hand, that a large software company can be so utterly dysfunctional. and yet "we're all winners!"

23:28:44 asciilifeform: dafuq is a 'hackathon' ?

23:28:50 asciilifeform: newspeak for 'deathmarch' ?

23:29:09 trinque: you get pizza and beer and invite shmoes off the street to come "hack"

23:29:16 trinque: and expect them to ... not sure what

23:29:38 trinque: "ideate"

23:29:52 mats: solve problems for free!

23:32:25 phf: we had a better thing than hackathon. a small group of junior developers were tasked with designing a curriculum and writing tutorials for training people with zero computer skills to become rails developers. to, i shit you not, "help disadvantaged peoples".

23:32:36 trinque: the concept was obviously shat by marketing people who believed in the myth of "the weekend app that made a million bezzlars"

23:32:55 trinque: obviously if it worked for "them" it'll solve all our corporate dysfunction

23:33:09 trinque: phf: do what now?

23:33:10 gernika: trinque that type of hackathon is innocuous compared to mandated hackathons at work.

23:34:06 trinque: phf: like this was gonna get some bum off the street, making rails sites?

23:34:32 trinque: gernika: yeah, the one where they fucked up project management so you're gonna ship this weekend by god!

23:34:39 gernika: At one such hackathon, employees were encouraged to spend the night in the office.

23:34:41 trinque: all of these people are useless

23:35:01 phf: trinque: i was at one "interview" with a guy with zero programmer experience, straight from "you can do anything!" video, we're talking "dropped out of art degree to become a waiter, but hours were brutal, so i want to become a programmer"

23:35:48 trinque: clearly the only thing preventing idiocracy is that it could never get that far

23:37:37 trinque: phf: seems to come from an american notion that you get ahead by pulling one over on everyone else

23:37:47 trinque: there's this one neat trick they don't want you to know after all

23:37:56 trinque: and it surely isn't competent people working hard, anything but that

23:38:22 trinque: the greatest thing you can be is a 20 year old billionaire that blasted off doing something pedestrian

23:41:08 gernika: There was one hackathon which, at the time I hated, but in retrospect had some redeeming value to it. People formed their own teams and worked on their own ideas and at the end, the CEO judged the results.

23:41:20 gernika: CEO told our team ours sucked.

23:41:23 phf: that's an old school notion, trickster as a hero and all that, but i don't think this is that. these people are not even hustlers, i don't think there's any awareness there.

23:42:28 gernika: Which, hey - would good if that happened more. Sadly the CEO's own idea turned out to suck and the startup went out of business.

23:44:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78733 @ 0.00056226 = 44.2684 BTC [+] {2}

23:51:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91700 @ 0.00056619 = 51.9196 BTC [+] {3}

23:53:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105348 @ 0.0005712 = 60.1748 BTC [+] {5}

23:58:34 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, jurov, et al: soldered pogo-style ttl serial probe to the 'miracast'. this yielded a straight root shell in ~5 seconds after powerup.

23:58:57 phf: asciilifeform: btw hackthons used to be face to face development sessions by free software teams, when they had opportunity to all congregate at some location. coined afair by theo, but went the same way as "open" and such

23:59:37 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, jurov, et al: http://dpaste.com/0YSCME3.txt

23:59:38 assbot: ... ( https://archive.is/http://dpaste.com/0YSCME3.txt )