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Transcript for 20-12-2015, 937 lines:

00:00:51 mircea_popescu: trb transactions will necessarily, always and everywhere be translatable to whatever shit-flavour-of-the-day "everyone" is using because "no reasonable objections".

00:01:06 *: shinohai moves to the Netherlands to become a driving instructor ... http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/19/dutch-driving-instructors-can-now-accept-sex-as-payment-5575568/

00:01:07 assbot: Dutch driving instructors can take sex as payment in 'Ride for Ride' law | Metro News ... ( http://bit.ly/1mtRid2 )

00:01:10 mircea_popescu: the chances of the reverse being possible decrease with every "everyone" and every "reasonable" and every "users came to expect" and so on.

00:09:58 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1348022 << there is no other way to do it! what i was asking was whether anybody's 'v' actually verifies that patching in the given sequence actually yields files having specified hashes.

00:09:58 assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 23:26:49; mod6: <+asciilifeform> ;;later tell mod6 does yours (or anybody else's) 'v' verify the hashes ? << mine uses the vpatch hashes to build the dep map

00:10:02 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/bNEhU

00:10:03 assbot: [EBOOK] How to scam people at Bitcointalk ... ( http://bit.ly/1NE55Ez )

00:10:07 asciilifeform: because mine, as everybody knows i think, did not.

00:11:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1348027 << this cost a good number of chumps their coin, aha

00:11:29 assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 23:29:25; punkman: https://github.com/jonasnick/ecdsaPredictableNonce attack against libsec256k1 about a year ago

00:11:36 asciilifeform: but somehow it Never Happened !11111 (tm)

00:11:45 asciilifeform: (as far as peter w is concerned, apparently)

00:13:04 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1348050 << you know what's great? rat poison STILL WORKS even if you don't explain to the rats exactly ~how~ !

00:13:04 assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 23:40:46; mircea_popescu: i've had it with this age of bullshit-reason where you gotta explain things to idiots with a first-paragraph-of-many-wikipedia-articles education as if everything can, or indeed should, be put in those terms.

00:13:55 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1348061 << what, precisely, is 'not bad' about it? it's 100% braindamage by weight and by volume

00:13:55 assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 23:49:50; punkman: the basic idea of segwit is not bad, should have been there from the start, without the "softfork" complexity, no ANYONECANPAY-looking crap, without making another merkle tree, without blocksize discounts and enlargements, without planning to use it as a vehicle for future "painless" shitgnovation

00:14:45 mod6: asciilifeform: ok, so add the ability to check the hash of the output file (post press) against 'b' in the vpatch?

00:15:28 asciilifeform: mod6: ideally a vtron would follow along as the patches are applied and actually verify the hashes, yes

00:15:46 asciilifeform: what we have now, takes the vpatch's word for it.

00:15:50 mod6: right

00:17:11 asciilifeform: incidentally, gentlemen, please welcome (back) dulap! (nosuchlabs.com), a trb node running bleedingedge-asciilifeform+rotor(musl)

00:17:33 asciilifeform: (rotor, if anyone forgets, is a static build from a locally-built gcc toolchain)

00:17:45 asciilifeform: with the frozen deps

00:18:11 asciilifeform: and kudos to mircea_popescu for providing a very spiffy box, on which phuctor will also very soon return

00:19:19 asciilifeform: this is a press of the programmable-versionstring patch and down.

00:19:42 asciilifeform: zoolag is also running same, as of last night.

00:19:57 BingoBoingo: Oh, dulap is the one I've been connected to for a while nao

00:20:09 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha but now it is synced

00:20:21 asciilifeform: (an unsynced trb node is not good for much! because it rejects most tx)

00:20:30 asciilifeform: thinkaboutit

00:20:30 BingoBoingo: yeah

00:20:55 BingoBoingo: Mine still rejects most tx because fee under 0.001

00:21:04 asciilifeform: not even speaking of these.

00:21:55 BingoBoingo: Yeah, the orphanage kill was a great thing

00:22:56 BingoBoingo: So is "/therealbitcoin.org: (99999)" the recommended version string for 0.5 branch until diddling because so few

00:23:34 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my patches do not represent the official papal view of therealbitcoinfoundation

00:23:49 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if the latest patch is ratified by the latter, then yes

00:23:59 asciilifeform: otherwise it simply happens to be the version string used by my nodez.

00:24:05 BingoBoingo: Alright.

00:24:37 asciilifeform: and incidentally BingoBoingo, should he make use of this patch, can easily set another

00:24:45 asciilifeform: without recompiling.

00:24:55 BingoBoingo: Of course. Played with that already.

00:25:22 BingoBoingo: Wonderful pranktential

00:25:26 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1348050 << you know what's great? rat poison STILL WORKS even if you don't explain to the rats exactly ~how~ ! <<< precisely. moreover, every new generation of rats agrees that it doesn't work. which somehow does not have any deleterious effects on the rat poison itself.

00:25:26 assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 23:40:46; mircea_popescu: i've had it with this age of bullshit-reason where you gotta explain things to idiots with a first-paragraph-of-many-wikipedia-articles education as if everything can, or indeed should, be put in those terms.

00:25:38 asciilifeform: aha, exactly this

00:26:46 BingoBoingo: In other news "/therealbitcoin.org: (99999)" is tied for 38th place by nodecount per 21.co's thing

00:27:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: part of the motivation for my experiment is to see how long it will be before they start 'accidentally' censoring it

00:27:58 asciilifeform: but this is only mildly interesting and i will probably forget to watch very soon.

00:28:28 BingoBoingo: Yeah, but in the plus side only takes 10 more to make it into the top 30

00:28:33 asciilifeform: and yet if we had 10,001 of these it would make for some mild lulz

00:28:38 asciilifeform: watch'em piss pants

00:29:30 BingoBoingo: If shennanigans could always "go stealth" and pile on as 10th place /Satoshi:0.8.6/ (97 nodez)

00:29:36 mircea_popescu: costs significantly less than what's in the foundation coffers to line up 10k amazon instances and let it rip.

00:29:48 mircea_popescu: nobody gives enough of a shit, but anyway. "army in being".

00:29:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yeah but questionable gain

00:30:04 mircea_popescu: anyone in the foundation leadership familiar with the military strategy concept ? ben_vulpes mod6 ?

00:30:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115300 @ 0.00049822 = 57.4448 BTC [-] {2}

00:31:04 *: asciilifeform is familiar but not in trbfoundation

00:31:19 mircea_popescu: i suppose should prolly call it fleet in being for historical reasons, but anywya.

00:31:25 asciilifeform: fleet aha

00:31:49 asciilifeform: at any rate, whoever wants to do this, knows how, it is not a mega-pr0j3ct

00:31:56 mircea_popescu: amusingly, it's a converse/correlate concept to the overton window.

00:32:55 asciilifeform: aws storage is, iirc, costly. this was one of the motivations for the enemy 'spv' crud etc

00:32:56 mircea_popescu: links nicely to anchoring stuff such as "the freedom to threaten" (see http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998185 ) and so on.

00:32:56 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:51:36; mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.

00:33:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't have to store anything to get the version string out.

00:33:24 asciilifeform: that'd there be pseudonode.

00:33:24 mircea_popescu: in fact it's better if ytou don't store anything.

00:33:28 asciilifeform: which exists.

00:33:35 asciilifeform: everybody knows where to get it.

00:33:39 asciilifeform: (it's a 50kb c proggy)

00:34:00 asciilifeform: https://github.com/basil00/PseudoNode

00:34:01 assbot: basil00/PseudoNode · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NE6Wt4 )

00:34:06 asciilifeform: !s pseudonode

00:34:07 assbot: 14 results for 'pseudonode' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pseudonode

00:34:59 asciilifeform: imho rather than a useful thing, it is actually a molasses-attack vector on the btc net

00:35:05 asciilifeform: and the possibility of it existing is a bug

00:35:30 mircea_popescu: "The first great step was taken long ago," said Mr. Monk,?"taken by men who were looked upon as revolutionary demagogues, almost as traitors, because they took it. But it is a great thing to take any step that leads us onwards."

00:35:49 asciilifeform: but it'd be a not-altogether-terrible way to kill the rangers' net

00:35:56 asciilifeform: after the gossified one is up

00:36:16 mircea_popescu: wouldn't kill anything. just make the "electoral process" a direct equivalent of the time man-of-the-year competition,.

00:36:30 mircea_popescu: its mere presence already accomplished most of that, anyway.

00:36:36 asciilifeform: kill in the sense of severing from the actual living meat

00:36:41 mircea_popescu: no democracy ever again.

00:36:57 asciilifeform: sorta the equivalent of the syrian flood

00:37:04 asciilifeform: !s empooren

00:37:04 assbot: 0 results for 'empooren' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=empooren

00:37:07 asciilifeform: hm.

00:37:20 BingoBoingo: "This is not true, compatibility with old nodes is funny preserved." << loller from minez

00:37:31 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-11-2015#1324872

00:37:32 assbot: Logged on 15-11-2015 16:37:59; mircea_popescu: and em-poor-en.

00:39:12 asciilifeform: at any rate, if mircea_popescu or anybody else wants to run 10,001 pseudonodes, he knows how

00:39:41 asciilifeform: (and i would argue that any kind of node whatsoever on aws or similar, is equivalent to a pseudonode instance)

00:40:08 mircea_popescu: at least from our pov, yes.

00:40:13 asciilifeform: one problem with this scheme is that they'd all live in aws ip space

00:40:37 mircea_popescu: "Oportunidad Startups - Potenciate en una StartUp de Latam"

00:40:41 mircea_popescu: dear god...

00:40:43 asciilifeform: and thus do not really shitbury the dem00000cracy of redditors on cable modems

00:41:22 mircea_popescu: Company: inBloom

00:41:22 mircea_popescu: It is a shame that the progress of important innovation has been stalled because of generalized public concerns about data misuse.

00:41:22 mircea_popescu: We stepped up to the occasion and supported our partners with passion, but we have realized that this concept is still new, and building public acceptance for the solution will require more time and resources than anyone could have anticipated.

00:41:31 mircea_popescu: the article is gone. they had ONE HUNDRED MILLION

00:41:35 asciilifeform: the CORRECT place for pseudonode is...

00:41:37 asciilifeform: on pwned routers.

00:41:38 mircea_popescu: from gates & the happy lizzard club.

00:42:07 asciilifeform: l0lwut

00:42:56 mircea_popescu: http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/05/with-100m-from-the-gates-foundation-others-inbloom-wants-to-transform-education-by-unleashing-its-data/ << not every airbnb succeeds.

00:42:57 assbot: With $100M From The Gates Foundation & Others, inBloom Wants To Transform Education By Unleashing Its Data | TechCrunch ... ( http://bit.ly/1O0fm1u )

00:43:07 mircea_popescu: The company also wants to help educators locate standards-aligned instructional resources from multiple providers, matching them to students? individual needs. ?We want to create more choice for schools and educators,? Streichenberger says, but not in a way that is overwhelming or makes their lives more confusing. ?But in a way that allows startups and companies to create different versions of learning analytic

00:43:07 mircea_popescu: s, for example, with teachers being able to choose the one that?s best for their needs.?

00:43:57 asciilifeform: seems content-free

00:44:28 mircea_popescu: it is.

00:44:33 mircea_popescu: 100mn.

00:44:48 asciilifeform: prolly all went back to lizard coffer without so much as stopping for a drink.

00:44:52 mircea_popescu: doh.

00:44:57 asciilifeform: aha like mains current

00:45:42 asciilifeform: when even was the last time anybody gave somebody 100mn ~turkey dollars~

00:45:55 asciilifeform: ah i recall

00:46:03 asciilifeform: when the idiot ukrs sent their gold reserve to usg

00:46:12 mircea_popescu: they didn't have that much did they.

00:46:18 mircea_popescu: besides, looting isn't giving.

00:46:19 asciilifeform: iirc - almost

00:47:18 mircea_popescu: if you're happy with ammo dollars (kinda dubious), pretty much every warlord in the middle east got himself as much this decade.

00:47:32 asciilifeform: ru ammo is cheap.

00:47:57 asciilifeform: so cheap, that you will find it cheap ~in k0ns0000m3r retail in usa~

00:48:46 asciilifeform: (so cheap that usa actually bought, through shills, when distributing in afghan in '80s !!111 and still.)

00:49:28 mircea_popescu: in other news, i'm getting used to the ~$30 contractor bills around here. 4 hour's labour, with tools and consumables. reasonable.

00:49:38 asciilifeform: it is also 'grungy' and ill-burning and american shooting aficionados scoff at the iron shells

00:49:47 asciilifeform: but they buy it, yes

00:49:53 asciilifeform: while scoffing.

00:50:08 mircea_popescu: copper shells are a fundamentally bad idea.

00:50:15 mircea_popescu: i know why they went for it, but really. fucking dumb.

00:50:18 asciilifeform: brass

00:50:27 asciilifeform: but yes, largely cu

00:50:28 mircea_popescu: no better. copper is scarce and has better uses.

00:50:46 asciilifeform: brass is malleable and recycles easily

00:50:47 mircea_popescu: excusable originally, because hey, 1800 machining sucked.

00:50:57 asciilifeform: also forms good seal in chamber

00:51:03 asciilifeform: which was nontrivial to achieve for steel shell

00:51:08 asciilifeform: (requires VERY fine tolerances)

00:51:26 mircea_popescu: im kinda wondering why no plastic shells yet.

00:51:30 asciilifeform: there are !

00:51:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83025 @ 0.00050263 = 41.7309 BTC [+] {5}

00:51:41 mircea_popescu: a ? okthen

00:51:42 asciilifeform: i saw nylon luger rounds (shell AND bullet) sold.

00:52:10 asciilifeform: http://reviews.cabelas.com/8815/218143/herters-select-grade-tnj-handgun-ammunition-reviews/reviews.htm << nylon shell, traditional bullet

00:52:11 assbot: Cabela's - Herter's® Select-Grade TNJ Handgun Ammunition customer reviews - product reviews - read top consumer ratings ... ( http://bit.ly/1NE86oh )

00:52:15 mircea_popescu: $15 per 50 /.40 S+W

00:52:16 asciilifeform: pulled out at random

00:52:17 mircea_popescu: not badf

00:52:55 asciilifeform: or hm, this link isn't it

00:53:01 asciilifeform: these are merely nylon-JACKETED lead bullets

00:53:06 asciilifeform: in metallic shells

00:53:49 asciilifeform: (looks like aluminum)

00:53:57 mircea_popescu: prolly is.

00:54:11 mircea_popescu: should be interesting once the plastic guns with plastic bullets start showing up at airports.

00:54:20 mircea_popescu: METAL DETECTOR!!11

00:54:24 asciilifeform: by various accounts, these are long ago sop

00:54:44 asciilifeform: a circa-1970s su specimen is known to exist

00:55:09 asciilifeform: ceramic bullet.

00:56:10 asciilifeform: iirc the main difficulty was the firing pin, it really does not want to be made of ceramic

00:57:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348201 << moar plumbers ?

00:57:22 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 00:49:28; mircea_popescu: in other news, i'm getting used to the ~$30 contractor bills around here. 4 hour's labour, with tools and consumables. reasonable.

00:58:01 mircea_popescu: hey, if you're going to build yourself a proper torture fortress you'll need all sorts of herraderia work done.

00:58:05 deedbot-: [Ossasepia] Foxy’s Dismal Scribblings on Euloran Exploration Data or Truly Horrible Numbers - http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/12/20/foxys-dismal-scribblings-on-euloran-exploration-data-or-truly-horrible-numbers/

00:58:16 asciilifeform: i happen to know that in a four-story, four-block office bldg full of secretutes, a plumber is necessary more or less 1+/day

00:58:18 mircea_popescu: this girl's a born optimist is she

00:58:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8195 @ 0.00049822 = 4.0829 BTC [-] {2}

01:01:00 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> anyone in the foundation leadership familiar with the military strategy concept ? ben_vulpes mod6 ? << not in a very formal sense.

01:03:49 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> i suppose should prolly call it fleet in being for historical reasons, but anywya. << gotcha

01:08:30 diana_coman: mircea_popescu> this girl's a born optimist is she <- I even gave optimistic conclusions ! at each point!! lolz

01:13:56 mod6: asciilifeform et. al. V question: Should I verify the hashes after all patches are vpressed, or after each pressed vpatch in the topological order?

01:14:57 mod6: s/vpressed/pressed/

01:17:06 mod6: if we wait until the end, we'll save some cycles -- and mathematically the hashes wouldn't come out right if somehow the files were diddled inbetween. but I can see some merit in checking after each patch is pressed.

01:18:08 mod6: i suppose i can just 'die' if one doesn't verify after each vpatch pressed. maybe that makes better sense.

01:20:57 mircea_popescu: if you check "at the end" now you have state.

01:25:33 punkman: "Possible optimistic conclusion: the new definition of “improved” is going from 34% to 21% success rate. Long (and painfully) live improvements!" lol

01:26:19 BingoBoingo: ;;isup btcalpha.com

01:26:19 gribble: btcalpha.com is up

01:26:50 mircea_popescu: ahahaha look at that, btcalpha is down

01:27:05 mircea_popescu: nope, loaded eventually. you see it BingoBoingo ?

01:27:20 BingoBoingo: Yeah, twas just impatience on my part

01:27:21 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if you check "at the end" now you have state. << do we want this?

01:27:29 mircea_popescu: mod6 we pointedly don't wqant this.

01:28:14 mod6: ok, got it.

01:28:30 mod6: will check after each and die if not valid.

01:32:46 BingoBoingo: tardmode http://www.washingtonpost.com/cars/elon-musk-wants-california-to-forgive-volkswagen-for-dieselgate-but-theres-a-very-big-catch/2015/12/18/86d47caa-a5b4-11e5-8318-bd8caed8c588_story.html

01:32:48 assbot: Elon Musk Wants California To Forgive Volkswagen For Dieselgate (But There's A Very Big Catch) - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODlRU6 )

01:33:16 BingoBoingo: "In contrast to the punishments and recalls being considered, this proposal would be a real win for California emissions, a big win for California jobs, and a historic action to help derail climate change. The bottleneck to the greater availability of zero emissions vehicles is the availability of batteries. There is an urgent need to build more battery factories to increase battery supply, and this proposal would ensure that larg

01:33:17 BingoBoingo: e battery plant and related investments, with their ensuing local jobs, would be made in the U.S. by VW."

01:38:21 mircea_popescu: lol musk wanna-be truman or wut ?

01:41:34 BingoBoingo: I don't even know anymore.

01:49:06 BingoBoingo: http://notyourgoodfatty.com/fatandflawless-cant-see-the-lifespan-of-the-obese-is-etched-in-stone/

01:49:08 assbot: @Fatandflawless can't see the lifespan of the obese is etched in stone! - NotYourGoodFatty.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODmYTF )

01:52:53 BingoBoingo: https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/735019

01:52:54 assbot: My roommate is making my life a living Hell. Update 1. | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODnfGk )

01:55:01 mircea_popescu: "What I learned from my failed startup after 2 years, 300 users and zero revenue"

01:55:18 mircea_popescu: he probably learned that mpex design is bad and etc.

01:55:43 mircea_popescu: fuck those stupid start-ups that have revenue and etc.

01:56:04 mircea_popescu: "Two years ago, on December 2011, I was generating ideas for a business that would help team managers to not suck so much at managing their teams. I came up with this idea because I had some pretty terrible managers in my life. At the same time I worked for about 5 years with leadership development and had some pretty great teams and team experiences. Exactly January 1st 2012 I registered the domain teamometer.com."

01:56:11 mircea_popescu: totally legit.

01:56:45 mircea_popescu: "Validating the MVP

01:56:46 mircea_popescu: I was reading The Lean Startup at that time, which is a great book, but not completely fool proof (here is a fool who got it wrong). I started well: in December I created a very basic idea and rough screens of my team management web tool. In January I built a very basic 2 page website with a video explaining what Teamometer.com did and a ?try it free? button, which then lead to a page for inputting the email addres

01:56:46 mircea_popescu: s to capture leads (since I had no product, that was just a test to see if there was demand). Then I bought a few dollars in Adwords to drive traffic to it."

01:57:37 BingoBoingo: Chicoms took our jobs, nao they are taking our scooty puffs http://notyourgoodfatty.com/too-fat-to-fuck-chinas-fattest-couple-gets-weight-loss-surgery-so-they-can-have-a-baby/

01:57:39 assbot: Too Fat to Fuck! China's Fattest Couple gets weight-loss surgery so they can have a baby. - NotYourGoodFatty.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODnAsx )

01:57:56 BingoBoingo: "Weighing in at nearly 900 lbs China?s heaviest couple has decided to undergo weight-loss surgery so they can have kids. Lin Yue and Deng Yang have been married since 2010 yet they haven?t been able to consummate their marriage because of their massive fupas. "

01:58:24 mircea_popescu: http://www.sergioschuler.com/startup-lessons-learned-from-my-failed-startup/ << this is prolly the dumbest kid of the crop so far.

01:58:28 assbot: Startup lessons learned from my failed startup - Sergio Schuler ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODnH7p )

01:58:53 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ustards can't even get obesity right ?

01:59:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not when the Chicoms can get to 450 a piece

01:59:44 mircea_popescu: aha

02:00:02 mircea_popescu: from what i hear past 300 or so a valid strategy becomes to just ejaculate and wait for the flies.

02:00:06 mircea_popescu: treemode, so to speak.

02:00:40 BingoBoingo: lol

02:01:09 BingoBoingo: Wait

02:01:18 BingoBoingo: HOLY SHIT TREES ARE OBESE

02:02:07 mircea_popescu: :)

02:02:41 mircea_popescu: and it doesn't affect their health, either.

02:02:52 BingoBoingo: We need to start recording the blockchain on paper, stat.

02:03:02 BingoBoingo: Fucking trees with their rootspreading

02:06:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48931 @ 0.00049763 = 24.3495 BTC [-] {2}

02:17:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348260 << this is necessary (apparently i have to explain it) because WE DON'T HAVE a known-good 'patch' util

02:17:49 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 01:28:30; mod6: will check after each and die if not valid.

02:20:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348295 << was reading log backwards and thought this was about drainpipes (an actual problem where i live)

02:20:46 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 02:03:02; BingoBoingo: Fucking trees with their rootspreading

02:21:53 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It is. Copper sulfate helps with that. Still fat fuck trees are so hungry they'll happily turn the shit pipe into a buffet. Behaviorally the things are hamplanets.

02:22:17 asciilifeform: root follows water

02:22:27 asciilifeform: it is the prehistoric clay pipes which are the problem

02:22:36 BingoBoingo: And follow faster when it finds easy shit.

02:26:03 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348246 << and waitsec how on earth would you even try to verify hashes ~after all the patches are pressed~

02:26:03 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 01:13:56; mod6: asciilifeform et. al. V question: Should I verify the hashes after all patches are vpressed, or after each pressed vpatch in the topological order?

02:26:33 asciilifeform: the only choices are to verify nothing (what we have now), verify only last one (why???) and verify after each (the screamingly correct way)

02:27:31 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348269 << folks who associate with the profoundly, frothingly mentally ill, tend to have some issue also

02:27:31 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 01:52:53; BingoBoingo: https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/735019

02:27:40 asciilifeform: (otherwise, why??)

02:28:11 BingoBoingo: Because you can't take reddit out of the redditors in exile?

02:28:17 BingoBoingo: They keep making the same mistakes

02:29:27 asciilifeform: the being-broke thing also 'helps'

02:30:37 BingoBoingo: Sure, still meat trees occasionally do stuff like https://archive.is/HzbNk

02:30:38 assbot: Tri-fat: Running with a FUPA | Marilia Brocchetto ... ( http://bit.ly/1m0tNs1 )

02:31:03 BingoBoingo: "Solution : Running with suspenders! No FUPA issues. I'll take a picture next time to illustrate better. It's amazing what a $5 pair of suspenders from Ace hardware will do to keep a FUPA in check. "

02:31:03 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

02:43:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9273 @ 0.00049712 = 4.6098 BTC [-] {2}

03:02:22 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency gbp

03:02:28 gribble: Bitstamp BTCGBP last: 308.0842, vol: 6598.51908905 | BTC-E BTCGBP last: 305.5325, vol: 6088.35063 | CampBX BTCGBP last: 302.175, vol: 2.6742231 | BTCChina BTCGBP last: 317.4304, vol: 78934.70550000 | Kraken BTCGBP last: 298.00001, vol: 0.25189048 | Bitcoin-Central BTCGBP last: 306.47407297, vol: 39.12527421 | Volume-weighted last average: 315.962161932

03:07:36 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/rmZSy "During tonight's Democratic debate in New Hampshire, Clinton was running late again returning from a commercial?it's not clear whether a bathroom was involved" << Springtime for Clitler

03:07:36 assbot: Hillary's podium empty as ABC starts debate segment. ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0JsSa )

03:43:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87650 @ 0.00049892 = 43.7303 BTC [+] {3}

03:49:57 mod6: ok I have made some additions, and this is what I've come up with:

03:49:58 mod6: http://dpaste.com/0SQKDZP.txt

03:49:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0JOIl )

03:50:45 mod6: it's not fully tested yet -- tomorrow I'll pass the testable version around and some people can give it a try.

03:51:07 mod6: then if everything passes, etc, will publish a new version [v99996]

03:51:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60637 @ 0.00050157 = 30.4137 BTC [+] {2}

03:52:14 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348246 << and waitsec how on earth would you even try to verify hashes ~after all the patches are pressed~ << yah, i dunno. didn't go that direction. it validates now after each vpatch is pressed.

03:52:14 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 01:13:56; mod6: asciilifeform et. al. V question: Should I verify the hashes after all patches are vpressed, or after each pressed vpatch in the topological order?

04:00:06 BingoBoingo: What the fuck is this prove you are a good fiat business before we'll even show you laser and hazmat prices business https://archive.is/pBOQL

04:00:07 assbot: Account Sign Up - Sign Up Options | Stuller ... ( http://bit.ly/1J0JWHW )

04:01:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118509 @ 0.0004967 = 58.8634 BTC [-] {5}

04:04:40 thestringpuller: ;;isup qntra.net

04:04:44 thestringpuller: ;;isup fraudsters.com

04:04:45 gribble: qntra.net is up

04:04:50 gribble: fraudsters.com is up

04:12:16 thestringpuller: !gettrust jgarzik

04:12:16 assbot: Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user jgarzik: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=thestringpuller&to=jgarzik | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/jgarzik/

04:37:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100250 @ 0.00049616 = 49.74 BTC [-] {4}

04:51:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 290300 @ 0.00049231 = 142.9176 BTC [-] {6}

05:14:47 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1347924 << here it comes...

05:14:47 assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 22:34:54; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform an ast is generated SOMEHOW.

05:17:55 ben_vulpes: evening, gabriel_laddel

05:17:55 gabriel_laddel: "here what comes?"

05:18:02 gabriel_laddel: "understanding."

05:18:13 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: hihi

05:18:31 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: how is the family, work, life?

05:19:39 ben_vulpes: alive, in gear, and enjoyable thank you

05:19:52 ben_vulpes: how grows masamune?

05:20:01 ben_vulpes: (and your other work)

05:21:12 gabriel_laddel: Heh. Having the first mirror machine and the prospect of automating the install process within arm's reach is a strong motivation to... job hunt.

05:40:02 BingoBoingo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWpF0t4XIAAqaD2.jpg

05:40:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSfzo9 )

05:46:08 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/cQIZ5

05:46:09 assbot: Board Seat Appointments - General - Bitcoin Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSfK2G )

05:51:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00049568 = 9.0214 BTC [+] {2}

06:05:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63400 @ 0.00049999 = 31.6994 BTC [+] {4}

06:17:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74821 @ 0.00049064 = 36.7102 BTC [-] {2}

06:19:03 ben_vulpes: whatever did happen to bitcointa.lk

06:20:38 BingoBoingo: no idea

07:12:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36231 @ 0.00049744 = 18.0227 BTC [+] {2}

07:21:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51701 @ 0.0004976 = 25.7264 BTC [+] {3}

07:24:00 trinque: to ... why the fuck are you downloading the logs bundle over and over ?

07:39:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67100 @ 0.00048993 = 32.8743 BTC [-] {3}

07:43:47 trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-11-2014#937160 << fix your script; i.e. download only bundles you've never seen, or don't you know how crypto sigs work

07:43:47 assbot: Logged on 27-11-2014 17:59:12; Anduck: ip

07:44:13 trinque: how bout that, #b-a l0gz DNS

07:45:56 BingoBoingo: !up Anduck

07:51:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46938 @ 0.00049814 = 23.3817 BTC [+] {2}

07:57:52 trinque: Anduck: a gentleman might consider funding the bot's address after using a terabyte of bandwidth

07:57:56 trinque: !gettrust Anduck

07:57:57 assbot: Trust relationship from user trinque to user Anduck: Level 1: -3, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=trinque&to=Anduck | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Anduck/

07:58:03 trinque: how bout that.

08:24:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45585 @ 0.00049596 = 22.6083 BTC [-] {3}

08:51:16 BingoBoingo: Song may be right? https://archive.is/XvHkY

08:51:17 assbot: Hitler really did have only one testicle, German researcher claims | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/22hEyXu )

08:58:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00049447 = 16.7625 BTC [-] {2}

09:03:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70650 @ 0.00050312 = 35.5454 BTC [+] {2}

10:06:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73262 @ 0.00050315 = 36.8618 BTC [+] {3}

10:08:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37650 @ 0.00048812 = 18.3777 BTC [-] {5}

10:42:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60734 @ 0.00049568 = 30.1046 BTC [+]

10:54:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29128 @ 0.0004904 = 14.2844 BTC [-] {2}

11:26:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100337 @ 0.00048639 = 48.8029 BTC [-] {4}

11:51:26 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> it is the prehistoric clay pipes which are the problem << clay pipes are best pipes. really.

11:59:50 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> whatever did happen to bitcointa.lk << the guy had a good idea back when a few people still thought tardstalk might possibily matter. that was... well over a year ago.

12:00:16 mircea_popescu: trinque> to ... why the fuck are you downloading the logs bundle over and over ? << try an' guess.

12:00:46 mircea_popescu: heh.

12:08:09 mircea_popescu: 100%[======================================>] 11,536,384 3.06M/s in 3.6s

12:08:17 mircea_popescu: man i like the smell of new hardware.

12:08:25 thestringpuller: wget?

12:09:06 mircea_popescu: ,yeah

12:29:21 mircea_popescu: in other news, sprint.pl "one the most advanced centers in Poland for data storage and processing, created in response to the growing demands of the market" ran off with muh boxen.

12:29:30 mircea_popescu: apparently that's ok now, because reasons.

12:31:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46500 @ 0.00049165 = 22.8617 BTC [+] {4}

12:42:13 punkman: mircea_popescu: was that the new phuctor box?

13:16:15 punkman: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/juniper-networks-us-government-security-hack/ mkay

13:16:16 assbot: Newly discovered hack has U.S. fearing foreign infiltration - CNNPolitics.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiWBqX )

13:20:05 punkman: http://screenrant.com/coleco-chameleon-video-game-cartridge/ coleco is still alive?

13:20:07 assbot: Coleco Developing New Cartridge-Based Video Game Console ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiX3W0 )

13:21:00 punkman: ah they have an indiegogo

13:24:14 punkman: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/retro-vgs so coleco plans to somehow rebrand this thing that flopped

13:24:15 assbot: RETRO VGS | Indiegogo ... ( http://bit.ly/1NEYJVj )

13:44:15 liquidassets: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1347566 <If I'd of die tonight I'd of die a little happier

13:44:15 assbot: Logged on 19-12-2015 19:34:16; pete_dushenski: ima contravexbash this

14:24:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88984 @ 0.00048897 = 43.5105 BTC [-] {3}

14:49:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82537 @ 0.00049601 = 40.9392 BTC [+] {3}

14:59:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72900 @ 0.00049604 = 36.1613 BTC [+] {2}

15:34:21 jurov: https://petsymposium.org/2015/papers/vandenhooff-vuvuzela-hotpets2015.pdf

15:34:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NFanj9 )

15:34:26 jurov: "

15:34:27 jurov: Vuvuzela’s design assumes an adversary that

15:34:29 jurov: controls all but one of the Vuvuzela servers (users need not

15:34:30 jurov: know which one), controls an arbitrary number of clients, and

15:34:32 jurov: can monitor, block, delay, or inject tra

15:34:33 jurov: ffi

15:34:35 jurov: c on any network

15:34:36 jurov: link. Two users communicating through Vuvuzela should

15:34:38 jurov: have their communication protected if their two clients, and

15:34:39 jurov: any one server, are uncompromised.

15:35:20 jurov: " << MIT got inspired

15:46:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113800 @ 0.00049703 = 56.562 BTC [+] {5}

16:15:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70800 @ 0.00048923 = 34.6375 BTC [-] {4}

16:49:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105803 @ 0.00049636 = 52.5164 BTC [+] {3}

16:51:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7251 @ 0.00050154 = 3.6367 BTC [+]

16:56:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348386 << ahahaha right. let me know when you've seen geysers of shit spewing from your bathtub on account of tree roots penetrating your clay pipes

16:56:23 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 11:51:26; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> it is the prehistoric clay pipes which are the problem << clay pipes are best pipes. really.

16:56:43 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348390 << sl00000w

16:56:43 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:08:09; mircea_popescu: 100%[======================================>] 11,536,384 3.06M/s in 3.6s

16:57:04 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348394 << why does mircea_popescu keep buying boxes in nato ?

16:57:04 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:29:21; mircea_popescu: in other news, sprint.pl "one the most advanced centers in Poland for data storage and processing, created in response to the growing demands of the market" ran off with muh boxen.

17:00:39 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348398 << 'The breach is believed to be the work of a foreign government, U.S. officials said, because of the sophistication involved. The U.S. officials said they are certain U.S. spy agencies themselves aren't behind the back door. China and Russia are among the top suspected governments...' << mega-l0l

17:00:39 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 13:16:15; punkman: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/juniper-networks-us-government-security-hack/ mkay

17:01:26 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348397 << nah that thing is still up (though at the moment the only thing properly built there is a trb node)

17:01:26 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:42:13; punkman: mircea_popescu: was that the new phuctor box?

17:01:37 asciilifeform: as in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348094

17:01:37 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 00:17:11; asciilifeform: incidentally, gentlemen, please welcome (back) dulap! (nosuchlabs.com), a trb node running bleedingedge-asciilifeform+rotor(musl)

17:01:47 thestringpuller: ;;market sell --fiat 6000000000

17:01:49 gribble: Bitfinex | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would sell 328927.03 bitcoins for a total of 7885661.1167 USD and take the price to 0. | Data vintage: 0.0046 seconds

17:02:40 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348422 << by now everybody knows the usg academitard modus operandi

17:02:40 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 15:35:20; jurov: " << MIT got inspired

17:03:11 asciilifeform: would be interesting (for a laugh) to see the actual code, but this is improbable

17:04:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348378 << now it remains to be learned whether '...musso, he has none at all'

17:04:15 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 08:51:17; assbot: Hitler really did have only one testicle, German researcher claims | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/22hEyXu )

17:05:11 punkman: https://github.com/davidlazar/vuvuzela

17:05:12 assbot: davidlazar/vuvuzela · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1US98BO )

17:05:26 asciilifeform: l0l, 'go'

17:05:33 punkman: naturally

17:06:29 asciilifeform: 'Vuvuzela assumes the existence of a PKI in which users can privately learn each others public keys. This implementation uses pki.conf as a placeholder until we integrate a real PKI.' << ahaha

17:07:40 asciilifeform: 'Vuvuzela uses efficient cryptography (NaCl) to hide as much metadata as possible and adds noise to metadata that can't be encrypted efficiently. This approach provides less privacy than encrypting all of the metadata, but it enables Vuvuzela to support millions of users. '

17:07:47 asciilifeform: do i need to actually read this thing

17:08:19 punkman: yale's equivalent http://dedis.cs.yale.edu/dissent/

17:08:20 assbot: dedis@yale | Dissent: Accountable Anonymous Group Communication ... ( http://bit.ly/1muKDix )

17:09:24 mod6: So with the post-press hash validator in place, here's some debugging/info output while pressing in verbose mode: http://dpaste.com/2EM6P8S.txt

17:09:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1muKJXu )

17:09:26 punkman: stanford's http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/abstracts/riposte.html

17:09:27 assbot: Boneh Publications: Riposte: An Anonymous Messaging System Handling Millions of Users ... ( http://bit.ly/1muKJXy )

17:09:38 asciilifeform: !s boneh

17:09:39 assbot: 1 results for 'boneh' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=boneh

17:09:40 mod6: I think this is pretty much what we want. I'll start writing some automated tests for this.

17:10:53 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1085575 << thread re: herr boneh

17:10:53 assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 02:40:46; asciilifeform: http://www.voltage.com/technology/identity-based-encryption << him

17:11:44 asciilifeform: also gotta love the 'million of anonymous' and 'ddos resistant' claim.

17:12:21 asciilifeform: and the fiddy pounds of maths

17:12:29 asciilifeform: classic usgization

17:12:42 asciilifeform: expect more 'embrace & extend' of gossipd.

17:13:51 asciilifeform: does harvard have one yet ?

17:13:53 asciilifeform: how about rand corp ?

17:13:57 thestringpuller: wassup asciilifeform

17:14:00 thestringpuller: merry xmas bro

17:14:02 asciilifeform: naval academy ?

17:14:13 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: wasn't that a week from now

17:15:08 asciilifeform: https://github.com/dedis/Dissent/blob/master/src/Crypto/DsaPrivateKey.cpp << holy fuck the yale thing supports dsa ?!

17:15:09 assbot: Dissent/DsaPrivateKey.cpp at master · dedis/Dissent · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1muL6S7 )

17:16:29 asciilifeform: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/trigger-warning-a-platform-for-dissident-thought << similar lulz elsewhere

17:16:31 assbot: Trigger Warning - A Platform for Dissident Thought | Indiegogo ... ( http://bit.ly/1muLcJs )

17:18:49 asciilifeform: mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348455 << neato

17:18:49 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 17:09:24; mod6: So with the post-press hash validator in place, here's some debugging/info output while pressing in verbose mode: http://dpaste.com/2EM6P8S.txt

17:19:32 thestringpuller: whatever happened to friedcat: http://btcreporter.com/2015/03/04/mystery-in-bitcoinland-the-disappearance-of-friedcat/

17:19:33 asciilifeform: mod6: have you tested it with 'false' entries? (files which were newly created)

17:19:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52204 @ 0.00049287 = 25.7298 BTC [-] {3}

17:20:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65172 @ 0.00048508 = 31.6136 BTC [-] {2}

17:24:40 thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3xksss/coinbase_bans_me_after_i_help_them_fix_major/ << oh look coinbase is officially a scam.

17:26:51 punkman: "Instead of abusing the exploit i have decided to help Coinbase fix the exploit by telling them step to step instructions on how to reproduce the bug on hackerone. After they were able to fix the exploit i was rewarded a measly $5,000 bounty, which i thought was unfair and was expecting to get upwards of $25,000. I helped them fix something that could have damaged them in hundreds of

17:26:51 punkman: thousands of dollars, maybe even Millions if the exploit was executed correctly with the right amount of people. Anyway so after i got my bounty and moved on they put some kind of "secret" ban on my account"

17:29:52 punkman: !up pxallin

17:30:16 punkman: good god man, why did you tell them about the second exploit

17:30:21 thestringpuller: hey pxallin. just posted your story here.

17:54:34 asciilifeform: didn't we do a 'responsible disclosure'-is-for-idiots thread ?

17:55:16 asciilifeform: possibly http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-07-2015#1188887 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188248

17:55:16 assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 01:24:01; mircea_popescu: "you wanted to benefit from responsible disclosure protections, you should have been in the wot" "but at the time i made that decision it seemed a no brainer, why expend the effort" "right. this is why you die."

17:55:16 assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 15:10:28; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-07-2015#1188163 << this is why, when dealing with a usg-powered entity, the correct procedure is not 'disclosure', which will be censored and hushed up; but - total annihilation

18:01:45 asciilifeform: this is the kind of bind folks end up in because it is impossible (to a first approximation) to sell 0days.

18:03:24 asciilifeform: now if camel fucker army had brains and used pgp and gave half a shit, one could send 0day to them and have at least the pleasure of knowing that it will be used to deal max damage.

18:03:31 asciilifeform: or north kr, etc.

18:03:51 asciilifeform: but even then impossible:

18:03:57 asciilifeform: they'd get swamped with disinfo

18:05:02 asciilifeform: so it would appear to me that traffic in 0day is impossible without a wot

18:05:28 asciilifeform: but it is also impossible ~with~ a wot, unless you are mircea_popescu and are in commerce with another mircea_popescu .

18:05:37 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: well traditionally a blackhat would have a group and they would deal max damage themselves.

18:05:47 thestringpuller: I've only heard of OS exploits being "sat on" for long periods of time.

18:06:10 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there is not a single such 'group' in planet 3 that isn't either a) usg tendril b) full of stoolies and candidate for gasenwagen

18:06:41 thestringpuller: The risk for crime is the gasenwagen. Raiders have always been ride or die.

18:07:45 asciilifeform: almost meaningless statement.

18:08:34 asciilifeform: and 'risk' is a weasel word when applied to a suicidally-stupid mistake such as associating with bands of idiot wotless children.

18:11:21 thestringpuller: I was talking pre-wot days. But sure, I understand what you are saying.

18:11:43 thestringpuller: Meat-WoT was a thing no?

18:15:39 asciilifeform: aha

18:16:04 asciilifeform: but it made локализация провала ( mircea_popescu ! does english even have a word for this basic concept ?) difficult

18:16:38 asciilifeform: roughly 'localization of failure' but is a specific tradecraft term

18:17:19 asciilifeform: but back to subj, meatwots consisting of idiot children tend to get rolled up within a single day

18:17:22 asciilifeform: whenever enemy feels like it.

18:18:10 thestringpuller: "resistance is futile"

18:18:27 asciilifeform: mno.

18:18:32 asciilifeform: futile for idiot children.

18:19:32 thestringpuller: weakest link is always idiot child.

18:20:35 asciilifeform: associating with idiot child is a choice.

18:23:21 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: have you tested it with 'false' entries? (files which were newly created) << this is a good test. it should just do what its supposed to do 'as is' I think? this line will grab the 'b' of the vdiff; my $file_hash = $vp_map{$vp}{$src_file_name}{b};

18:24:00 mod6: and if a new file is introduced the 'a' should be 'false' and the 'b' will be some sha512 hash, and will still be verifyable. correct?

18:24:07 mod6: anyway, yeah, will still test that.

18:24:13 asciilifeform: mod6: test it with my latest patch

18:24:17 asciilifeform: it creates a 'knobs.h'

18:24:22 mod6: ah, good lookin'

18:24:23 mod6: thanks.

18:28:53 mod6: ok: http://dpaste.com/3PZ9CP8.txt

18:28:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NwM3Cf )

18:29:10 mod6: looks like it did what it was supposed to do.

18:29:18 asciilifeform: mod6: very neat

18:29:42 mod6: so the ones that it /does/ skip is when 'b' == 'false' -- where the file was ~removed~ from a given vpatch.

18:29:44 asciilifeform: oughta post this on therealbitcoin.org

18:29:54 asciilifeform: wai wat

18:29:56 asciilifeform: skip?

18:30:24 asciilifeform: gotta also make sure that subsequent patches do not try to use a deleted file

18:30:26 mod6: yeah, otherwise `sha512sum` returns "No such file found".

18:31:01 asciilifeform: (a patch that uses a deleted file can be legit so long as it is not on the tree branch that contained the deletion)

18:31:02 asciilifeform: thinkaboutit

18:31:32 mod6: hmm.

18:31:42 asciilifeform: the other thing a vtron needs to handle is orphans

18:32:01 asciilifeform: if the toposort is correctly written, mod6's vtron ought to do it

18:32:24 asciilifeform: perhaps orphan is not the word

18:32:31 asciilifeform: but dead branches of the tree, basically

18:32:41 mod6: disconnected graphs?

18:33:20 asciilifeform: nah those are yet another matter

18:33:30 asciilifeform: say we were to have a documentation dir

18:33:33 asciilifeform: that never existed before

18:33:41 asciilifeform: it would end up as an altogether other tree in the graph

18:33:49 mod6: oh, i see, so like if a patch further down the line (in time) remove a file that a specific sub tree relies upon, that those become removed?

18:34:02 asciilifeform: mod6: nope

18:35:43 mod6: <+asciilifeform> it would end up as an altogether other tree in the graph << so said patch to add documentation dir would be its own root?

18:35:51 asciilifeform: it would

18:36:38 asciilifeform: the only necessary change to make working with multiple trees convenient would be 'multi-press' where you specify more than one 'head'

18:36:43 mod6: I guess that makes sense since it wouldn't share any antecedents with the original graph.

18:36:46 asciilifeform: aha

18:44:04 mod6: Scenario: Guy creates vpatch that utilizes irc.h (removed in vpatch asciilifeform_ver_no_5_4_and_irc_is_gone_and_now_must_give_ip.vpatch) must ensure that Guy's patch is on it's own tree?

18:44:17 asciilifeform: no

18:44:29 asciilifeform: it splits off from the node immediately prior to the removal

18:44:32 mod6: i haven't quite figured out what to do about this scenario yet.

18:44:45 asciilifeform: just as if i had cut out a single line of a single file, and a subsequent patch relies on that line.

18:44:49 asciilifeform: thinkaboutit

18:45:08 asciilifeform: also if you set your vtron to 'wild' mode you can trivially test various combos

18:45:14 asciilifeform: i did a good bit of this

18:45:58 asciilifeform: the only kind of thing that is 'in own tree' is a patch that has no common ancestor with ~anything~ in the genesis tree

18:46:10 asciilifeform: (ergo, has its own 'genesis' somewhere)

18:46:11 mod6: ok.

18:46:14 mod6: right.

18:46:45 mod6: i thought 'wild' mode is simply when no one in wot has provided a seal corresponding to a given vpatch

18:46:53 asciilifeform: aha

18:46:58 asciilifeform: it is handy for testing a vtron

18:47:09 asciilifeform: because you can throw in any patches you like, made for the occasion of the test

18:47:12 asciilifeform: without having to sign them

18:47:32 mod6: oh yeah, i see.

18:47:41 mod6: for testing. etc.

18:47:42 asciilifeform: it was the only reason i had it.

18:48:44 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Is it better to be a paternalistic colonialist or a patronising anti-colonialist? - http://www.contravex.com/2015/12/20/is-it-better-to-be-a-paternalistic-colonialist-or-a-patronising-anti-colonialist/

18:49:48 *: mircea_popescu waves

18:49:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu !

18:50:11 mircea_popescu: <punkman> mircea_popescu: was that the new phuctor box? << nah, the old qntra cluster. makes it the 2nd time in about a month wtf.

18:50:37 *: asciilifeform pictures scene, mircea_popescu's servers in burlap sack on motorcycle, an old pier, a splash

18:50:48 mod6: <+asciilifeform> it splits off from the node immediately prior to the removal << so in this scenario, the antecedents of asciilifeform_ver_no_5_4_and_irc_is_gone_and_now_must_give_ip.vpatch are [dns_thermonyukyoolar, rev-bump, static_makefile_v002, genesis ]

18:51:03 mircea_popescu: the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue!

18:51:08 asciilifeform: mod6: correct. and afaik this behaviour does not need any special cases

18:51:30 mod6: so then those antecedents would point to the new vpatch (at the same node level as asciilifeform_ver_no_5_4_and_irc_is_gone_and_now_must_give_ip.vpatch) but a separate node.

18:52:07 asciilifeform: mod6: an odd way to phrase it (descendants point to ancestors, really) but yes.

18:52:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348422 << lol. what a dumbass name, too./

18:52:29 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 15:35:20; jurov: " << MIT got inspired

18:52:38 mod6: ah, yeah, sorry -- following the arrows in the graph.

18:53:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i can hardly think of better name than 'vuvuzela' for a usg idiocy built solely to drown out intelligent thought

18:53:15 asciilifeform: bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzhhhhttt!

18:53:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ahahaha right. let me know when you've seen geysers of shit spewing from your bathtub<<< i don't live in the fucking swamp.

18:53:36 mod6: haha blow your vuvuzela

18:53:36 mircea_popescu: just because you can pump the shit uphill doesn't mean you should.

18:53:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform african innovation yes ?

18:54:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was strictly downhill. known bug of 100-y.o. clay pipe: porous. roots follow gradient.

18:54:30 mircea_popescu: 100 yo ?!

18:54:34 asciilifeform: aha

18:54:47 *: mircea_popescu waves disinterestedly. waaaaaa

18:54:55 asciilifeform: (possibly not quite 100)

18:55:05 mircea_popescu: "The breach is believed to be the work of a foreign government, U.S. officials said, because of the sophistication involved. " << fucktards.

18:55:09 asciilifeform: city hall said '1920s'

18:55:29 mircea_popescu: governments trail in every measure of efficiency, efficacity, sophistication or otherwise success, yet the assumption is that hey, if it work it musta been a government.

18:55:33 mircea_popescu: memory hole ftw.

18:56:03 asciilifeform: ( old thread... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-05-2014#689735 )

18:56:03 assbot: Logged on 26-05-2014 18:58:27; asciilifeform: meanwhile! end of sewer saga: city excavated street, disassembled pipe, found tree roots behind the property line - which had become clogged with backed up crud (for the 30 hours or so the city's pipe was broken.) now they will fight with landlord's insurance co.

18:56:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you think what's wrong with infrastructure neglected for a century is the clay, or the trees, or the roots or the gradients you're a very special fellow.

18:56:12 mircea_popescu: otherwise, they get replaced.

18:56:24 asciilifeform: who ever replaces sewer pipe ?

18:56:26 asciilifeform: in what country ?

18:56:30 mircea_popescu: romania ?

18:56:35 mircea_popescu: everyone ?

18:56:50 asciilifeform: ah the place where some schmuck got sweeheart contract with city hall to dig up ~whole town~ ?

18:56:58 mircea_popescu: no, that's boston.

18:57:14 mircea_popescu: anyway, my story with buying a coupla cartons of cigs for convicts digging street up ?

18:57:27 asciilifeform: possibly

18:57:31 mircea_popescu: that was the job, replacing the main sewage line. last done in the 60s.

18:57:36 asciilifeform: neato

18:57:50 asciilifeform: incidentally the city line was fine

18:57:51 mircea_popescu: done more or less on a 30-40 year cycle.

18:57:53 asciilifeform: this was the house line

18:58:01 asciilifeform: which is behind property line and so never replaced by anybody

18:58:07 mircea_popescu: heh.

18:58:17 mircea_popescu: hire more realtors.

18:58:24 mircea_popescu: the work'll get done by itself.

18:58:39 asciilifeform: my brother sometimes asks 'have you dug latrine yet'

18:58:47 asciilifeform: and i answer, 'not ~yet~'

18:59:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348452 << nope.

18:59:36 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 17:07:47; asciilifeform: do i need to actually read this thing

18:59:43 mircea_popescu: but hey, they got a romanian too right ? must cunt for something.

19:00:13 *: asciilifeform to his grief went and read

19:00:17 asciilifeform: quite barfalicious.

19:01:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348485 << hey, why ever fucking learn ? keep doing it.

19:01:20 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 17:26:51; punkman: "Instead of abusing the exploit i have decided to help Coinbase fix the exploit by telling them step to step instructions on how to reproduce the bug on hackerone. After they were able to fix the exploit i was rewarded a measly $5,000 bounty, which i thought was unfair and was expecting to get upwards of $25,000. I helped them fix something that could have damaged them in hundreds of

19:01:22 mircea_popescu: and pay your taxes, too.

19:02:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348500 << so be a mircea_popescu. the fucking point of the entire thing is for you to be a mircea_popescu.

19:02:50 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 18:05:28; asciilifeform: but it is also impossible ~with~ a wot, unless you are mircea_popescu and are in commerce with another mircea_popescu .

19:04:11 asciilifeform: ~~~ once upon a time, a disciple asked mircea_popescu: 'how do i become a mircea_popescu ?'

19:04:16 asciilifeform: and the master replied,

19:04:29 asciilifeform: 'every morning, when you wake up, look in the mirror; if you notice that you are not a mircea_popescu,

19:04:39 asciilifeform: take this Luger, and put it in your mouth, like so...

19:05:03 asciilifeform: by the next new moon, the remaining you will be a mircea_popescu . ~~~

19:05:33 jurov: i'd say the answer was "beat the universe down till it allows you to be mircea_popescu"

19:05:36 punkman: I thought the point is to put in others' mouths

19:05:41 asciilifeform: also works

19:06:02 asciilifeform: either formula, depending on whether you wanna be an intro- or extro-verted mircea_popescu

19:09:08 jurov: http://img.appd.lengxiaohua.cn/2014/10/17/5440ffa3b45e1_o.gif or a family

19:09:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeKx89 )

19:09:38 asciilifeform: aha.

19:22:34 asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20151219/mempool_dev2_a654caa4f28ed6f78906fef28060c2f46470f067.patch << why not vpatch ?

19:22:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeLBsD )

19:22:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:23:12 jurov: if i come with something usable, then vpatch

19:23:39 asciilifeform: i was sorta having this thread with mod6 earlier:

19:23:47 asciilifeform: v does not imply 'carved in stone for the ages'

19:23:57 asciilifeform: it quite readily supports obsoleted mistakes and dead ends

19:24:07 asciilifeform: and in fact makes a convenient record of what's been tried and rejected

19:24:29 asciilifeform: (you simply end up with a dead branch on the tree)

19:24:56 asciilifeform: y'know, sorta like ye olde blockchain

19:25:16 mircea_popescu: well, be all that as it may, i do hope that before i die i reach that enchanted nirvana where i don't have to deal with anyone other than mps.

19:26:02 asciilifeform: now who doesn't dream of that !

19:27:16 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (you simply end up with a dead branch on the tree) << very much this

19:27:19 mircea_popescu: and thius is a good thing.

19:27:37 asciilifeform: was sorta the point of 'v'

19:29:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the other thing a vtron needs to handle is orphans << heh.

19:30:14 asciilifeform: afaik the only implementation that barfed from these is... mine

19:30:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348552 << im not sure this is such a good idea. conceptually it dillutes the whole notion, practically it makes cyclicity a nightmare.

19:30:15 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 18:36:38; asciilifeform: the only necessary change to make working with multiple trees convenient would be 'multi-press' where you specify more than one 'head'

19:30:18 asciilifeform: mod6's works iirc

19:30:22 mircea_popescu: how about you just add the documentation as a pathc.

19:30:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-08-2015#1248465

19:30:42 assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 18:25:35; asciilifeform: re: earlier thread: a few hours of thinking led me to another potential boojum in 'v' : cyclic graphs

19:30:58 mircea_popescu: only took me half a minute!

19:31:02 mircea_popescu: ha-HA!

19:31:22 asciilifeform: 1377 sk1lz

19:32:05 mircea_popescu: either that or the advantage of thinking in december vs august.

19:32:31 asciilifeform: anyway you don't get cycles unless somebody was a badboy

19:32:42 mircea_popescu: anyway. imo the english for lokalizatsiya provala would be "bug"

19:32:54 asciilifeform: mno

19:33:06 mircea_popescu: why mno!

19:33:11 asciilifeform: because that ain't it ?

19:33:24 mircea_popescu: yawell.

19:33:33 asciilifeform: prolly best translation is 'damage control'

19:33:40 mircea_popescu: normally this works by going A implies A', B implies non-A',

19:35:09 mircea_popescu: "operable cancer" so to speak. ie, it's margin-able.

19:35:19 mircea_popescu: that's what bug fundamentally means.

19:35:53 mircea_popescu: and hence the difference between software that's right, but buggy, and software that's simply wrong - and so can't even BE buggy.

19:36:41 asciilifeform: yeah but original term meant something specific, quite analogous to chopping off your own arm that's been bitten by a cobra etc

19:37:20 mircea_popescu: yaok

19:39:53 punkman: "containement" sounds close to me

19:40:21 asciilifeform: ^

19:42:39 mircea_popescu: provala still means failure right ?

19:42:46 asciilifeform: aha

19:42:53 asciilifeform: specifically tradecraft

19:43:08 mircea_popescu: so then.

19:43:18 mircea_popescu: hey, maybe the english word for it should be "bridget fonda"

19:43:54 mircea_popescu: in memory of that indigestible imbecileho from city hall who then got her just deserts in jackie brown

19:44:02 mircea_popescu: !up TheNewDeal

19:44:20 TheNewDeal: they're slowly cutting me off from resources

19:45:01 mircea_popescu: who an'\ what resources ?

19:45:22 TheNewDeal: I think it's the USA control bureau

19:45:27 TheNewDeal: like fraudsters

19:45:45 TheNewDeal: and I"m assuming it's the financials next

19:45:45 mircea_popescu: i c.

19:47:27 TheNewDeal: I believe that they used my family to set me up, and now they're going to punish me capitally for sending a bitcoin tx

19:48:45 mircea_popescu: seems a little far fetched doesn't it ?

19:48:56 TheNewDeal: not exactly

19:49:23 TheNewDeal: I was researching mpex moneys on the blockchain website

19:49:28 mircea_popescu: ok...

19:49:34 TheNewDeal: and I saw funds go from the usa bitcoin siezure into the mpex funds

19:49:37 mircea_popescu: you and at least ten thousand other peopl,e ?

19:49:42 mircea_popescu: of course ?

19:49:50 mircea_popescu: what else would you expect them to do with bitcoin ? send it to coinbase ?

19:50:50 asciilifeform: l0l!!

19:51:03 asciilifeform: !b 7

19:51:05 assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0BZM2XF.txt )

19:51:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67250 @ 0.00048493 = 32.6115 BTC [-] {2}

19:52:18 *: asciilifeform missed this l0lm0m3nt

19:52:19 TheNewDeal: have they always been using these mind manipulation tools in the US ascii?

19:52:32 TheNewDeal: like the ones that require a spectrum analyzer

19:52:45 asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: for some reason they never fire at folks who own a spectrum analyzer, even a very old and ratty one

19:52:48 asciilifeform: so i can't comment

19:53:09 *: asciilifeform will have to be driven mad with good old fashioned poison and shot with old-fashioned guns

19:53:21 mircea_popescu: no fun.

19:53:26 asciilifeform: aha, downer

19:54:35 TheNewDeal: I didn't think that sending a couple transactions would bring on this type of firepower from the US

19:54:45 mircea_popescu: what, concretely ?

19:54:46 mircea_popescu: !up trader001

19:54:54 TheNewDeal: what firepower?

19:54:57 asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: perhaps you're just for target practice, like most folk

19:55:21 mircea_popescu: yes TheNewDeal, you're being all vague and shit.

19:55:30 TheNewDeal: they had used mind control tools. they were literally prepping me with questions to talk to a psychiatrist the night before

19:55:41 TheNewDeal: and they could actually move my vocal cords and limbs as well

19:55:44 trader001: did anyone buy for 436$ to go short?

19:55:55 TheNewDeal: heart pumping as well

19:56:15 Birdman: TheNewDeal: It was explained to me as such, the unsustainable inefficient entity that is the USG probably isnt even capable of pulling off schemes like you suggest

19:56:19 mircea_popescu: trader001 you sell to go short, not buy.

19:56:44 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal honestly, this sounds a lot more like a psychotic episode than anything in phenomenology.

19:57:33 TheNewDeal: Watch them, I'm guessing they're going to put up an impending court case against me in the United States

19:57:43 trader001: sorry... I meant buy for 436 to do a little day trading

19:57:43 asciilifeform: how come nobody smears lsd on ~my~ doorknob, l0l

19:57:55 mircea_popescu: cuz you'd prolly sell it.

19:58:01 asciilifeform: with doorknob aha

19:58:21 asciilifeform: 'valuable usg doorknob!'

19:58:31 TheNewDeal: what about all this jazz going on worldwide

19:58:39 TheNewDeal: don't you think there's some sort of world war impending?

19:58:45 mircea_popescu: maybe.

19:58:46 TheNewDeal: or perhaps already on the rise

19:58:53 mircea_popescu: in fairness, ww1 was named by gallup poll, so

19:59:07 Birdman: There are no soldiers if there are no paychecks

19:59:14 mircea_popescu: ha-ha.

19:59:19 mircea_popescu: the best soldiers aren't mercs.

19:59:21 *: asciilifeform falls down

19:59:21 TheNewDeal: I'm telling you they used carbon monoxide training, or a similar gas on me in the hospital

19:59:33 mircea_popescu: what were you in teh hospital for ?

19:59:41 TheNewDeal: I checked myself in voluntarily

19:59:49 TheNewDeal: I tweaked after smoking some dope

19:59:54 asciilifeform: wai wut srsly

20:00:01 mircea_popescu: ok. and what's carbon monoxide training ?

20:00:15 TheNewDeal: they let out gas in the hospital

20:00:21 TheNewDeal: and I could see everyone coughing

20:00:37 TheNewDeal: like the staff

20:00:38 mircea_popescu: well, if they do it's not co. you don't cough from that.

20:00:42 asciilifeform: ^

20:00:43 mircea_popescu: it's not in the slightest bit an irritant.

20:00:57 TheNewDeal: hmmm it seems i've been duped hardcore

20:01:15 mircea_popescu: in fact people routinely get poisoned with co and have not the slightest inkling.

20:01:23 mircea_popescu: hence "silent killer"

20:01:24 TheNewDeal: I would not trust my own transmissions in the future, I believe they've gained access to my keys

20:01:48 mircea_popescu: aite.

20:02:01 asciilifeform: is TheNewDeal 'calling in strike on own position' ?

20:02:08 *: asciilifeform takes off hat

20:02:13 TheNewDeal: what do ya mean?

20:02:24 asciilifeform: self-negrate

20:02:49 mircea_popescu: !rate mircea_popescu 10 best mircea_popescu i know!

20:02:49 assbot: You can not rate yourself.

20:02:52 TheNewDeal: can you send me the command, I am still used to the bitcoin otc web trust

20:02:53 mircea_popescu: pfff

20:03:12 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://45.media.tumblr.com/33e13281ec7e158dda7b52d242bcecf3/tumblr_mra2lo0HoZ1s8ztwao1_500.gif

20:03:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeOLg3 )

20:03:14 TheNewDeal: !rate TheNewDeal potential USG spy, suspected terror alert

20:03:14 assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.

20:03:22 TheNewDeal: !rate TheNewDeal -10 potential USG spy, suspected terror alert

20:03:22 assbot: You can not rate yourself.

20:03:56 TheNewDeal: I think they're using me to scare people away from bitcoin

20:05:03 Birdman: I think you need to calm down and get ahold of yourself mentally. Good god where's your fortitude man?

20:05:14 TheNewDeal: Who're you Birdman

20:05:27 TheNewDeal: I'll tell all of you where I live and my name and then they can watch for the news

20:07:13 TheNewDeal: I know you're trying to play me for a fool

20:08:26 Birdman: !gettrust thenewdeal

20:08:26 assbot: Trust relationship from user Birdman to user thenewdeal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=Birdman&to=thenewdeal | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/thenewdeal/

20:09:24 TheNewDeal: !rate Birdman 1 suspicious; keep friends and enemies close in the WOT

20:09:24 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a284b5fb194c89ae

20:10:23 TheNewDeal: Have you ever had a bunch of people in a room act to lead you on to do something?

20:12:16 punkman: TheNewDeal: what kind of dope did you smoke before checking in to the hospital?

20:12:58 TheNewDeal: I'm not entirely sure. Was probably just normal old weed

20:13:52 TheNewDeal: They're pushing it like hotcakes in the US right now

20:14:32 TheNewDeal: I think they're using it to fund their war on sound computer science

20:15:25 TheNewDeal: any other USians notice any chinese style firewalls occuring for websites like fraudsters?

20:15:46 punkman: just the good old ddos

20:16:09 TheNewDeal: it's been down for days for me

20:16:11 TheNewDeal: same for you?

20:16:20 ben_vulpes: !s my servers

20:16:21 assbot: 39 results for 'my servers' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=my+servers

20:16:32 TheNewDeal: DNS lookup failures for me

20:16:57 ben_vulpes: !s muh boxen

20:16:58 assbot: 2 results for 'muh boxen' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=muh+boxen

20:17:15 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-12-2015#1348394

20:17:15 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 12:29:21; mircea_popescu: in other news, sprint.pl "one the most advanced centers in Poland for data storage and processing, created in response to the growing demands of the market" ran off with muh boxen.

20:17:42 ben_vulpes: ^^ extraneous '/' in those urls, mthreat kakobrekla

20:17:51 TheNewDeal: anyways, I'll drop my story - back to business

20:18:04 ben_vulpes: TheNewDeal: mircea_popescu's boxes are getting stolen and you're complaining about a bad trip?

20:18:29 ben_vulpes: where's the "MPEx down for over a month in 2016" bet?

20:18:49 TheNewDeal: My sister almost got shot in that massacre in california as well

20:19:07 TheNewDeal: there's a lot of loose ends that are popping up for me

20:19:26 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, how does one calculate the odds of mutually-exclusive outcomes from binary odds on each individual outcome?

20:20:04 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c ^^

20:20:04 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:20:22 asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: what means 'almost shot' ? bullet whistled by, took off hat ?

20:20:35 ben_vulpes: beyond that mircea_popescu and hanbot are probably the experts and asciilifeform might know the maths

20:20:56 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wai wut

20:21:07 asciilifeform: sounds like you're describing an ordinary coin flip ?

20:21:49 ben_vulpes: take the odds on the republican election

20:22:06 asciilifeform: what next, odds of boxing match ?

20:22:53 ben_vulpes: unless i'm even wronger than normal that's not a clean mapping

20:23:20 mircea_popescu: <TheNewDeal> I'll tell all of you where I live and my name and then they can watch for the news << alright ?

20:23:49 ben_vulpes: there are n candidates, each with individual odds of winning a competition. how do i derive odds on the whole field from those binary outcomes?

20:23:55 mircea_popescu: ahaha rthat sound cs bit is golden. i'm bashing

20:24:55 punkman: !up dbclk

20:25:05 punkman: ben_vulpes: what is whole field?

20:25:29 ben_vulpes: rubio, trump, etc

20:25:54 jurov: ben_vulpes trump running solo is kinda.. ternary outcome, no?

20:26:15 ben_vulpes: jurov: please for to not be getting the pathological cases involved

20:26:27 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's going to be disagreement so you hafta reconcile numbers somehow.

20:26:41 jurov: they're not pathological, just black swans. with a toupee.

20:27:06 ben_vulpes: i guess i'm asking if there's a known closed-form solution to this question.

20:27:13 ben_vulpes: gold swans lol

20:27:32 mircea_popescu: for instance : if bet on tails is 50/40 btc and bet on heads is 42/49 btc, and they're both the same coin toss, then you could say it's (50+49)/(90+91) for tails.)

20:29:02 mircea_popescu: if your dice is more-than-two sided exactly nothing changes.

20:30:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00048945 = 16.3966 BTC [+] {2}

20:30:19 *: ben_vulpes needs a refresher in elementary statistics apparently

20:30:24 mircea_popescu: obviously, HOW you reconcile the numbers is an open question.

20:30:55 mircea_popescu: above, simple weighted averaging. if you have any knowledge of the field there's prolly a better curve to use

21:05:20 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell TheNewDeal Have you considered lithium cooling for your brain to increase USG resistance?

21:05:20 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:06:59 jurov: BingoBoingo: why lithium?

21:08:01 jurov: NaK is imo better, fluid at usual temps, brain can be immersed directly

21:09:13 BingoBoingo: jurov: AHA. I was just thinking something to reduce the voltages a bit, though too much lithium takes the action potentials up to 111eleventy!!! and seizures.

21:09:21 BingoBoingo: But as long as not too much safe.

21:11:07 BingoBoingo: Lithium's also the very rare psych drug that actually reduces suicide risk

21:11:30 BingoBoingo: when used that way

21:11:56 *: jurov took cooling a bit literally

21:12:42 BingoBoingo: It literally does that too

21:12:58 jurov: i'm drinking li mineral water too, when feel like it

21:17:03 BingoBoingo: It's good stuff. Just doctor sort of lithium doses aren't very good for actual hot weather. That much of different salt really messes with the sweating and made for a miserable summer.

21:20:44 BingoBoingo: But that's when integer mmol/liter in the body is achived.

21:24:11 BingoBoingo: But you may be right NaK look very promising for immersion cooling

21:25:44 mod6: asciilifeform: ok. i'll think about how to implement these changes to V. right now, im not sure.

21:35:28 BingoBoingo: "Somehow this soft suburban environment and two witlessly loving parents who trusted friends, relatives, teachers and neighbors with their oldest son, resulted in a violent psychopath. " >> http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3490

21:35:29 assbot: JL: Action Sites, Childhood ... ( http://bit.ly/22iVpcc )

21:38:16 BingoBoingo: #CarLivesMatter http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/officer-in-vonderrit-myers-jr-fatal-shooting-resigns-after-crashing/article_65067ac6-969a-5977-8a3c-839242bdd075.html

21:38:17 assbot: Officer in VonDerrit Myers Jr. fatal shooting resigns after crashing car; drunk driving probe opened : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1meqCfW )

21:38:39 BingoBoingo: "When police responded to the accident, a witness said a police car had caused the damage and fled."

21:44:02 mod6: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: what are we to do about the deps for buildroot?

21:44:21 mod6: I've been in halt mode for a week now, not sure if this has been sorted yet.

21:44:26 mircea_popescu: probably will end up having to freeze a specified set.

21:44:36 mircea_popescu: "clingwrap" as it's apparently called.

21:45:00 BingoBoingo: 2.4.x kernel? *crosses fingers*

21:45:23 mod6: 2.4 was ubercrasher for me

21:47:21 mircea_popescu: the question's thorny enough

21:48:10 mod6: so I think programatically I have it worked out on how to make this happen, was about to test last weekend? lemme dig up the logs on this.

21:48:28 ben_vulpes: freeze 'em.

21:48:38 mircea_popescu: in other news, one inch of costa rica coffee, three inches of milk, a pinch of black sugar, three drops of vanilla oil (actual!), four ice-cubes and havana club anejo especial (genuine) qs makes the god-damnedest... bootleg kalhua let's call it/

21:48:52 ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRH-Ywpz1_I

21:48:53 assbot: Mr. Freeze's Puns - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1mer6CN )

21:49:09 mod6: <+ben_vulpes> freeze 'em. << what is specifically meant by this?

21:49:56 mod6: dl'em, sign 'em, hash 'em, put 'em in a manifest and distribute?

21:50:08 mod6: (& host 'em)

21:50:45 mod6: or re-package the entire source under our own "fork" of these pacakages?

21:51:10 mircea_popescu: prolly the latter.

21:51:10 ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?

21:51:12 mod6: my original idea was the former.

21:51:39 ben_vulpes: i'm leaning towards a 'monorepo'

21:51:41 mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.

21:51:41 mircea_popescu: it would be so good if this "import" model of software died.

21:51:46 mircea_popescu: of course... not trivial

21:52:06 ben_vulpes: simply because every additional http call to get another bundle of source is another weak link, another hole for the night etc

21:52:23 ben_vulpes: plus yeah, we have V, why not really tax it.

21:52:50 mircea_popescu: well no. every additional http call to get anothe rbundle is nothing

21:52:56 mircea_popescu: the FIRST cal however, is an infinity of leaks.

21:53:01 mircea_popescu: this is how the cancer spread in the first place

21:53:08 mircea_popescu: "you're a whore now anyway, baby, so why not suck this cock"

21:54:47 ben_vulpes: one could stick source dependencies into some "lib" dir, wire that into the builder, update the scripts and then produce some new patches with the entire world, right?

21:55:00 ben_vulpes: only question in my mind is if we stick linus' kernel in there too.

21:56:29 asciilifeform: i go pet a pet for an hour and come back to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348866

21:56:29 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:45:00; BingoBoingo: 2.4.x kernel? *crosses fingers*

21:56:31 mod6: I think this was the conversation from a few weeks ago: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2015#1340754

21:56:31 assbot: Logged on 11-12-2015 02:21:30; mod6: so what I'm hoping to accomplish here is to alter the .mk files that accompany buildroot, so they pull the 3rd party reqs directly from the foundation site instead of wherever they currently point to.

21:56:44 asciilifeform: ferfuxsake 2.4 doesn't run on anything one might care to run today

21:56:55 asciilifeform: where did this crack smoke even come from

21:57:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348856 << i'm not actually sure whether it needs any change

21:57:36 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:25:44; mod6: asciilifeform: ok. i'll think about how to implement these changes to V. right now, im not sure.

21:58:01 BingoBoingo: I might have been a while since I paid attention to Linux kernel versions

21:58:20 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348879 << buildroot, iirc, will load tarballs from a local dir if they are present

21:58:20 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:10; ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?

21:58:34 mod6: think its worthwhile just to put out the changes for V to have the checking of the hashes in place, while skipping over any "b" that is false? (files that since been deleted?)

21:58:48 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348882 << i said this because a GB of c source IS NOT ANYTHING-IFYABLE

21:58:48 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:41; mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.

21:58:57 asciilifeform: you can build it (if lucky) AND THAT'S ABOUT IT

21:59:22 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348879 << buildroot, iirc, will load tarballs from a local dir if they are present << yeah I think it does this from the 'dl' directory

21:59:22 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:10; ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?

21:59:45 asciilifeform: i picked buildroot because it was the ONLY practical solution to letting folks who had not dedicated their lives to self-torture build a reasonable self-contained linux for $weirdcpu

21:59:53 asciilifeform: rather than it being any kind of long-term answer to ANYTHING.

21:59:59 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348882 << i said this because a GB of c source IS NOT ANYTHING-IFYABLE << i may have mis-remembered this or conflated it with something else.

21:59:59 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:41; mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.

22:00:08 asciilifeform: no mod6 remembers correctly

22:00:18 asciilifeform: i said that buildroot is not really v-ifiable.

22:00:29 asciilifeform: because it is not human-edible.

22:00:42 asciilifeform: (and, note, there is NO known alternative to it)

22:00:57 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: so buildroot is out of scope then.

22:00:59 asciilifeform: i did try netbsd, which has all of the same necessary attributes, BUT lacked essential drivers

22:01:08 asciilifeform: netbsd is - potentially - v-ifyable.

22:01:10 ben_vulpes: (the kernel line was a joke, but whatever)

22:01:18 asciilifeform: i even ported it to motherfucking pogo

22:01:27 asciilifeform: BUT i never finished the nand support.

22:01:35 asciilifeform: because... takes actual work

22:01:59 asciilifeform: incidentally the de-glibc-ized trb WILL run on netbsd now!

22:02:07 ben_vulpes: aaaa

22:02:13 asciilifeform: this experiment, if anyone recalls, is how i discovered the libc crud to begin with

22:02:15 ben_vulpes: too much problem surface area!

22:02:23 asciilifeform: see logz.

22:03:17 ben_vulpes: dependencies to freeze: bdb, boost, openssl

22:03:46 ben_vulpes: none of those are really human-verifiable either.

22:03:57 ben_vulpes: (shiva-verifiable, perhaps)

22:04:25 asciilifeform: if i ever sign a bdb, boost, or openssl as 'honestly reviewed this' please shoot me

22:04:31 mod6: they're all a can-o-worms

22:04:59 ben_vulpes: how to bridge the gap between 'v means i read and agree' vs. 'we need the source for these deps in the v-tree'?

22:05:32 asciilifeform: v the tarball hashes.

22:06:30 mod6: or simply just a manifest of tarballs/deps required for the one-button-push deployment of trb

22:06:41 mod6: v'd

22:06:44 asciilifeform: i may have said this before, but it bears repeating - some folks might be labouring under unrealistic expectations re: what is possible with the reference trb.

22:07:39 asciilifeform: imho it has strictly two uses, 1) REFERENCE for writing an actual bitcoinatron, which is ~why i asked for it~ 2) keep the continuity flame burning until we can have 1

22:08:35 asciilifeform: possibly also 3) tx value/byte ordering --- but i'd put that under 2

22:09:18 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348925 /me has been unsuccessful building trb on any bsd as of yet

22:09:18 assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 22:01:59; asciilifeform: incidentally the de-glibc-ized trb WILL run on netbsd now!

22:09:51 asciilifeform: shinohai: build static for linux and use compat layer

22:10:07 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it's 2 that makes me want to vendor dependency sources.

22:10:17 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is both necessary and easy

22:10:20 asciilifeform: and iirc mod6 already did it

22:10:31 asciilifeform: just hash the contents of buildroot's cache dir

22:10:59 asciilifeform: but notably, the result is NOT something that anybody will dive into and clean up trb-style

22:11:03 ben_vulpes: our current vendoring goes and pulls that from thebitcoin.foundation, right?

22:11:04 asciilifeform: (go and try)

22:11:29 asciilifeform: but yes, fetching tarballs from the net during a build is retarded

22:11:38 ben_vulpes: implies deps on dns, net, a million failure points.

22:11:39 asciilifeform: whole thing gotta ride in one ball

22:11:41 asciilifeform: and be cd-ifying

22:11:45 asciilifeform: *cd-ifyable

22:11:52 asciilifeform: a la openbsd.

22:12:18 asciilifeform: then we can have cd pressed, at some point, and distribute ANY AND ALL changes as vpatches.

22:12:34 ben_vulpes: we'll need to v everything

22:12:44 asciilifeform: pressing of cd was perhaps the ONE good idea in openbsd

22:12:56 ben_vulpes: unless we want seperate v 'repos' for each dep for distributing patches to those libs

22:13:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all the deps, really, are on the chopping block

22:13:42 asciilifeform: boost is - per my current estimate - removable if we're willing to replace boostisms with c++11isms

22:14:00 asciilifeform: openssl is removable as per yesterday's thread (and the three or four similar old threadz)

22:14:12 asciilifeform: bdb is removable if anybody dares

22:14:47 asciilifeform: alternatively the whole orchestra is removable if somebody finds a bag of gold

22:14:51 asciilifeform: etc.

22:15:29 ben_vulpes: it's vastly more likely that someone's going to need to crap out a patch for eg openssl than replace it wholesale.

22:15:44 asciilifeform: i ain't patching openssl.

22:15:49 ben_vulpes: et al

22:15:50 asciilifeform: medicine for a corpse.

22:15:55 mod6: yeah, i think we need to write our own crypto lib

22:15:57 mod6: in the end.

22:16:03 ben_vulpes: and just the likelihood of that happening makes me want those under v.

22:16:05 mod6: as crazy as that might be

22:16:19 ben_vulpes: yeah we might get there and again stan might get hit by a bus tomorrow

22:18:03 asciilifeform: mod6: we need to write own everything. long before the end.

22:18:12 mod6: agreed.

22:18:20 asciilifeform: and my bus is virtually guaranteed to appear before all of this is over.

22:18:30 asciilifeform: so nobody should be slacking.

22:19:31 *: asciilifeform bbl.

22:19:42 mod6: i don't think anyone is slacking.

22:19:43 *: ben_vulpes will sign off on tarballs and v'd hashes thereof.

22:19:52 mod6: there's just a ton of stuff to do, 'tis all.

22:19:53 *: thestringpuller starts humming "Sweet Life" in front of mod6

22:21:14 thestringpuller: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Did charlie just steal your article? https://medium.com/@SatoshiLite/eating-the-bitcoin-cake-fc2b4ebfb85e#.7l1nrx2a9

22:21:14 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:22:31 mod6: so just to be clear, so I'm not holding anything up here; hashes of the following tarballs in V: BDB, openssl, and boost.

22:22:51 mod6: buildroot + its deps included in this list?

22:23:58 ben_vulpes: negative.

22:25:14 mod6: so just those three then? and the rest are outside the scope then.

22:27:01 mod6: Alright, good talk.

22:28:01 ben_vulpes: yeah i didn't hear anything from asciilifeform to the contrary

22:29:38 jurov: btw, i'm testing unchanged same code as i posted with jemalloc and zapmempool does shrink RSS by 50MB

22:30:55 jurov: so maybe we end up with malloc library, too... at least till mempool is completely redone

22:36:14 jurov: http://www.colorforth.com/1percent.html haha dude asks we give him a problem

22:36:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1m2hXO2 )

22:36:47 jurov: i can think of one :D

22:39:14 jurov: "But don't expect me to read the C, I couldn't."

22:40:34 jurov: "but hey, this isn't C, but C++". *meltdown*

22:44:28 jurov: !up samO

22:45:42 adlai: "As an infix language, it encourages nested parentheses. Sometimes to a ludicrous extent. They must be counted and balanced." << some maintain that even prefix notation has this effect...

22:46:34 adlai: the culprit is variadicity, syntax is a lot easier when all operators have known 'stack effect'

22:55:51 adlai: http://www.colorforth.com/map.htm << somebody shares alf's dataflow dreams

22:55:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1m2k4S0 )

22:58:19 ben_vulpes: god bless chuck

22:58:40 ben_vulpes: legend has it that he reprogrammed hung satellites on the fly with forth

22:59:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33350 @ 0.00048772 = 16.2655 BTC [-] {2}

23:45:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00048773 = 4.2676 BTC [+]