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Transcript for 21-01-2016, 1098 lines:

00:00:23 jurov: did the same calculation about nimh, it actually comes out similar

00:00:41 jurov: while you need more sells, nimh should be less fickle

00:00:45 jurov: *more cells

00:02:06 jurov: and they will self-discharge 4% per day, nothing for occassional usage :D

00:03:52 mod6: i need chalk board

00:21:55 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-01-2016#1378832 << wd mate. what year's your suburban ?

00:21:55 assbot: Logged on 20-01-2016 19:27:41; mod6: no heat in the suburban, made appt. to have it fixed. showed up this am like "ok do your thing..". They said, "oh, can you pick it up tomorrow? we're busy...". Like wtf. It's literally like a 15 minute job. How do I know? Because I just did it myself instead and if I exclude the drive time to pick up and buy the part itself, ~15 minutes.

00:24:06 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell gabrielradio plox to translate http://fraudsters.com/2012/cum-sa-fii-peste-ghid-simplu-pe-inteles-si-exhaustiv/ :)

00:24:07 assbot: Cum sa fii peste - ghid simplu, pe inteles si exhaustiv on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UcOEDt )

00:24:07 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:27:46 mod6: pete_dushenski: thx, it's old '08

00:27:58 mod6: new ones are like seventyfive racks

00:28:26 pete_dushenski: body style changed in 07 tho, neh ?

00:28:40 pete_dushenski: 2014/15 or w/e is but ugly with those spangly leds

00:28:47 mod6: yeah, a bit. the new ones look even less curvy than mine,... more of a boxy look

00:29:40 mod6: i guess im just happy that i have windows that roll up and heat. that old shitter that i got for free (basically) was pretty cold driving down the freeway at 65mph when it's -25 F.

00:29:54 mod6: and there were some sort of vermin living in there.

00:30:05 pete_dushenski: tbh i like yours the best. but i might just be partial to that gen because i sold a couple of 'em in my day even ;)

00:30:35 mod6: its a pretty nice vehicle. its like all the power of a full-size truck with some extra seating.

00:31:08 mod6: you never know when you might need to fit 7 hookers in the car.

00:31:16 shinohai: ^

00:31:27 pete_dushenski: or a 72-point buck

00:31:35 mod6: shit, yeah.

00:32:31 pete_dushenski: trucks are all about "what if..."

00:41:38 pete_dushenski: http://bankunderground.co.uk/2016/01/20/the-cheque-republic-money-in-a-modern-economy-with-no-banks/

00:41:39 assbot: The cheque republic: money in a modern economy with no banks. | Bank Underground ... ( http://bit.ly/1nyVZ5J )

00:43:00 pete_dushenski: ^ireland in 1970s as case study

00:45:34 pete_dushenski: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1601.03313v1.pdf << maybe clitler is using robo-speech writers already ?

00:45:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UcQaFr )

00:46:41 pete_dushenski: "Many political speeches show the same structures and same characteristics regardless of the actual topic. Some phrases and arguments appear again and again and indicate a certain political affiliation or opinion. We want to use these remarkable patterns to train a system that generates new speeches"

00:48:23 pete_dushenski: obviously the 'researchers' were able to take us congressional floor debates, chop 'em up, and spit out something that sounds no worse. garbage in, garbage out. now try this with actual debates from actual history and see how far you get. my guess : not far.

00:49:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43252 @ 0.00055742 = 24.1095 BTC [-] {2}

00:55:32 BingoBoingo: Last block, quite the stinker by F2Pool

00:56:00 pete_dushenski: how so ?

00:57:16 BingoBoingo: Long verification time.

00:58:28 ben_vulpes: mod6: didja ever share an actual patch for the code you're working on? brief face-grep through logs reveals nada

01:01:27 mod6: no i haven't yet.

01:01:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80450 @ 0.00055816 = 44.904 BTC [+]

01:01:57 mod6: thanks for asking. i just went through my high-S enforcement code by hand, and i know for sure that I have an error in there. about to fix it and try that out.

01:11:06 mod6: ok changes made. gonna recompile send some test txn, then if all *seems* well, will share my vpatch

01:17:11 *: mod6 is not a fan of the style used in here

01:17:18 mod6: (the code)

01:17:23 mod6: it's like

01:17:29 mod6: if (thing)

01:17:31 mod6: {

01:17:35 mod6: // stuff

01:17:37 mod6: }

01:17:46 mod6: rather than:

01:17:52 mod6: if(thing) {

01:17:54 mod6: // stuff

01:17:55 mod6: }

01:18:29 mod6: guess its just a personal pref. *shrug*

01:23:06 mod6: i guess this is funny because back when I first started writing code, a hundred million internet years ago, i liked the first way better.

01:23:09 mod6: go figure.

01:29:59 mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Salud!

01:30:00 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:31:48 BingoBoingo: some of these comments https://archive.is/Nnd81

01:31:49 assbot: So Gavin, will you hold the repository keys to Main Bitcoin classic repo ? : Bitcoin_Classic ... ( http://bit.ly/1QnnEC5 )

01:34:37 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

01:34:38 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 422.6, Best ask: 422.61, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 422.61, 24 hour volume: 82797.3201925, 24 hour low: 377.17, 24 hour high: 428.0, 24 hour vwap: None

01:36:31 mircea_popescu: this death is unimpressive.

01:37:23 BingoBoingo: Seriously

01:37:25 mircea_popescu: turns out all the "richest country in the world" could muster was a coupla days' of 10% and a readily defeated pair of anonymous junkies.

01:37:43 mircea_popescu: reminds me of a story of rachel welch's bra and the most important man in the world.

01:37:49 BingoBoingo: Couldn't keep it up any longer than it too ACH to clear new fiat into exchanges

01:37:58 deedbot-: [Qntra] IMF: Bitcoin Features Present "Risks" To Us - http://qntra.net/2016/01/imf-bitcoin-features-present-risks-to-us/

01:39:28 mircea_popescu: heh. the imf has no trb mandate, nor will it.

01:39:38 mircea_popescu: so that settles that.

01:48:44 BingoBoingo: pretty much

01:50:10 mod6: ;;tslb

01:50:15 gribble: Time since last block: 18 minutes and 8 seconds

02:02:00 mod6: ;;tslb

02:02:05 gribble: Time since last block: 1 minute and 59 seconds

02:16:12 mircea_popescu: ;;tslf

02:16:12 gribble: Error: "tslf" is not a valid command.

02:16:15 mircea_popescu: awww.

02:17:08 mod6: i got another tx dropped on the floor. im also 2 blocks behind, so not sure if it cares.

02:17:14 mircea_popescu: shouldn't.

02:17:27 mircea_popescu: this is turning into quite the bitch is it ?

02:17:29 mod6: this test tx was processed by the original code.

02:17:41 mod6: mircea_popescu: eh, ya. but worthwhile.

02:17:56 mircea_popescu: if nothing else, an instructive foray into the incredible fragility of the network.

02:17:57 mod6: here's the tx: bf990fa50a4ea2c13dbe8f65c42c5fcb7b3439109b0c2d0e22081960a9c5fe9a

02:18:06 mod6: yah, no doubt.

02:19:08 mircea_popescu: i can't see it anywhere. it never propagated past your next hop odds are.

02:19:47 mod6: http://dpaste.com/2SCEN42.txt

02:19:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxTcm4 )

02:19:53 mod6: yeah, im sure it never made it out

02:20:05 mod6: just kinda documenting here a bit.

02:20:52 mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/41vjyp/pay_no_attention_to_sky_high_pe_ratios_outlandish/ << who's this ?

02:20:53 assbot: Pay no attention to sky high P/E ratios, outlandish global debt, or market selling restrictions. Continue to transfer your hard earned money to fund managers, like a good citizen. : investing ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxTmdh )

02:20:53 mod6: first tx with original code went through np.

02:24:34 mircea_popescu: in other news, bitcoin classic has even fewer nodes than bitcoin xt. who was that guy that was the me of something else again ?

02:28:03 mircea_popescu: anyway, what's the true truth of truthiness BingoBoingo, is hearn quitted or did he quit like stolfi ?

02:32:48 mod6: another dropped on the floor.

02:33:00 mod6: im gonna do 3 per option: orig/low/high

02:33:02 mod6: http://dpaste.com/2KVKR0N.txt

02:33:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SycRGl )

02:33:08 mod6: (a work in progress)

02:42:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148119 @ 0.00055714 = 82.523 BTC [-] {2}

02:48:55 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He's prolly going to turn Stolfi, haven't tracked to see if he's done so already

02:49:55 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other news, bitcoin classic has even fewer nodes than bitcoin xt. who was that guy that was the me of something else again ? << They haven't even released a client publically yet

02:53:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48950 @ 0.00055608 = 27.2201 BTC [-] {2}

02:55:32 BingoBoingo: "end on January"

02:55:53 BingoBoingo: Prolly something about seeing how much has would actually commit to their dumpster fire

03:09:16 mod6: first low-s tx made it through.

03:26:22 mod6: ;;tslb

03:26:25 gribble: Time since last block: 16 minutes and 57 seconds

03:35:37 mod6: wtf is bitcoin classic?

03:35:52 mod6: WE have bitcoin "classic", not these pinwheels

03:35:55 mod6: if(SHITGNOMES) { char *classic = "manyRadicalDeltasFromPointOfOrigin"; }

03:36:22 mod6: ;;tslb

03:36:26 gribble: Time since last block: 34 seconds

03:37:26 mod6: hey waddya know, i've got a block before btc.blockr.io

03:38:09 BingoBoingo: sweet

03:40:12 mod6: 2nd low-s tx went through

03:41:08 BingoBoingo: From the mines: "Our best hope to get miners to run bitcoin-classic or XT, is to beg super-hard for it."

03:41:37 mod6: else { char *classic = "trb"; }

03:43:21 BingoBoingo: lol

03:45:36 mod6: alrighty, 3rd low-S tx made it through

03:46:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94453 @ 0.00056344 = 53.2186 BTC [+] {3}

03:54:10 mod6: alright, now for the high-S txn

03:56:07 mod6: dear lord, i've had like 9 crackers with cheddar today and like 3 mtdews.

03:59:31 mats: 1337

04:02:45 BingoBoingo: !b 3

04:02:46 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/24QXFYN.txt )

04:12:23 mod6: haha

04:22:39 mod6: first high-S tx went through o_O

04:25:14 BingoBoingo: cool

04:26:43 mod6: im pretty sure that one was mallated.

04:28:09 mod6: my S value spit out into the debug.log isn't contained in the hex data in the tx: DEBUG DER S: 0xBE8E2E74EBE2618A27D50E0A1D02B33BCE8188940AA22967E9E01AD4D140AB0F

04:28:19 mod6: but the R value is

04:28:28 mod6: DEBUG DER R: 0xB16F69B135317A54C96C0EA8882C295DB05B7BD4598FDE42865983A1AEBB3E63

04:28:52 mod6: https://api.blockcypher.com/v1/btc/main/txs/893d003f806a5bce121a71e84c260e7879cb6c5464ef93132c0b79e60ff7ff66?limit=50&includeHex=true

04:28:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1S60aRT )

04:29:12 BingoBoingo: Yeah, the active malleation of transactions that happen to be High-S is a pain.

04:29:39 mod6: yeah, but i guess thats to be expected since these three are supposed to all be high-s.

04:32:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139796 @ 0.00056486 = 78.9652 BTC [+]

04:37:36 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

04:37:43 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.43, vol: 24039.42500346 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 416.548, vol: 17276.22672 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 417.26, vol: 84398.47923601999 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 360.0, vol: 15.6217475 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 425.02392, vol: 92889.43150000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 418.3225, vol: 793.13561663 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 425.984475, vol: 143.90607164 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

04:38:57 BingoBoingo: ;;more

04:38:58 gribble: average: 420.403324341

04:44:25 mod6: this is interesting... that tx '893d003f806a5bce121a71e84c260e7879cb6c5464ef93132c0b79e60ff7ff66' hasn't been confirmed yet

04:44:59 mod6: oooo crap forgot to set the fee to 0.001 after restarting.

04:45:13 mod6: maybe it'll get picked up eventually.

04:46:04 BingoBoingo: Just double spend it with a higher fee

04:47:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62428 @ 0.00056962 = 35.5602 BTC [+] {2}

04:47:59 mod6: ok second high-s tx went through

04:49:16 mod6: this one looks malleated too

04:49:29 mod6: https://api.blockcypher.com/v1/btc/main/txs/d61de63de9cd9b38d1a2a478e5d6c5f017f9a573e4e84ca3cc9bbc1128d3ddeb?limit=50&includeHex=true

04:49:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1S62KqP )

04:49:45 mod6: DEBUG DER R: 0x11E986930067BA31716E2D880F6660ABFC3C7C6927C94E0AF6CB4C0CD6315D5B << is found in hex

04:49:54 mod6: DEBUG DER S: 0xC541A295514D6BF4BEF30599DC7F8A18BEC9B6B3F615D94F847AD154D4DCBB45 << is not

04:53:17 deedbot-: [Qntra] Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover - http://qntra.net/2016/01/fiat-markets-continue-slide-as-fiatbtc-interface-prices-recover/

04:53:49 BingoBoingo: ^ Whole post is ReadMoar'd on front page because footnote

04:54:29 BingoBoingo: But do read post for news on Bitcoin's new All Time High versus Oil

05:02:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77204 @ 0.00056883 = 43.916 BTC [-]

05:10:35 mod6: third high-s tx was malleated also, went through, was confirmed as were previous two

05:13:27 mod6: here's my testing notes: http://dpaste.com/32KDF7E.txt

05:13:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1S65zbm )

05:18:23 mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review: http://dpaste.com/1E2CM6R.txt

05:18:24 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20g2kRD )

06:05:30 BingoBoingo: !up cashforbtc

06:32:37 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvq07KBfhnQ

06:32:38 assbot: Uber Driver Gets A Free (Unwanted) Interior Car Cleaning - "You've Got Mail!!" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QfSdHQ )

06:38:21 punkman: "The Uber driver was too good of a person and decided to take a cash settlement instead of pressing charges. In his words, "...she was crying (and) said (she) was sorry for everything." I don't want to disclose the amount the driver was paid, but can say he could only use the money to pay his cellphone bill and maybeee his cable bill."

06:38:40 punkman: not sure who's more despicable now

06:54:36 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379420 > https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/3bys9m/wife_inherited_10_million_were_so_lost_its_not/

06:54:36 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 02:20:53; assbot: Pay no attention to sky high P/E ratios, outlandish global debt, or market selling restrictions. Continue to transfer your hard earned money to fund managers, like a good citizen. : investing ... ( http://bit.ly/1OxTmdh )

06:54:37 assbot: Wife inherited 10 million. We're so lost it's not even funny. : personalfinance ... ( http://bit.ly/1QfTjmS )

07:24:18 BingoBoingo: Anon derp doom talk http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-20/us-center-global-economic-meltdown

07:24:19 assbot: The U.S. Is At The Center Of The Global Economic Meltdown | Zero Hedge ... ( http://bit.ly/1PGxzOf )

07:59:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39550 @ 0.00055845 = 22.0867 BTC [-]

08:00:40 BingoBoingo: those comments https://sli.mg/a/y45JZC

08:00:41 assbot: Album hosted on sli.mg ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZO2NxE )

08:01:01 BingoBoingo: https://i.sli.mg/X4uNtS.gif

08:01:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZO2TFs )

08:02:00 BingoBoingo: same age https://i.imgur.com/Hokvwn5.jpg

08:02:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZO2YZO )

08:38:14 punkman: http://mister-mean-spirited.blogspot.com/2016/01/be-more-like-god.html

08:38:15 assbot: Mr. Mean-Spirited: BE MORE LIKE GOD ... ( http://bit.ly/1nb58Rr )

08:52:27 BingoBoingo: Looks like some Individuals in the UK are starting to fight back against Obesity https://archive.is/OOwAk

08:52:28 assbot: Campaigners slam 'extremely worrying' comments blaming young woman for being punched - Mirror Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1nb6hIX )

08:55:27 BingoBoingo: https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/805387

08:55:29 assbot: 17 year old (!!!) obeast takes fat hate in the face | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1RUGYIk )

08:55:34 BingoBoingo: ^ Mine where found at

09:06:28 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - "Mad Max: Fury Road" wins Oscar for Best Picture - http://bitbet.us/bet/1241/mad-max-fury-road-wins-oscar-for-best/#b10

09:18:50 punkman: ;;obip 10000

09:18:52 gribble: Bitfinex | The weighted average price of BTC, 10000.0 coins up and down from the spread, is 414.85558 USD. | Data vintage: 0.0051 seconds

09:31:00 BingoBoingo: The other Toomim presenting his version of history https://archive.is/nCavo

09:31:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vaf6xv )

09:34:54 BingoBoingo: But basically this Hearnia is painting Janssens and some Obeast named "Marshall Long" as the reasons for the adverserial nature of ClassicCoin. Framing of course because it's what good instruments do so he can try to relevant himself again in six months

09:37:10 BingoBoingo: Seriously though the Marshall long fellow looks like Gavin ate Gavin

09:37:27 BingoBoingo: And is attached to a bunch of scams

09:38:41 BingoBoingo: "Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 07:30:02:oh darn, i already sold my bitcoin to pay for electricity a few days ago..."

09:42:10 BingoBoingo: Turd's too long to read really. Just try searching it for names and terms that should be in actual discussions about bitcoin and be astounded when they don't show up.

09:55:48 punkman: BingoBoingo: *Karpeles ate Gavin

09:56:30 BingoBoingo: We might actually be underestimating here

09:57:38 BingoBoingo: Google images suggests a BMI between 55 and 75

09:58:17 BingoBoingo: Solidly past the point of rag on a stick

10:00:04 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY8nGwJUAAAey-R.jpg:large

10:00:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1T7NquS )

10:02:45 copypaste: woah woah woah, BMI 55?

10:03:48 copypaste: surprised anyone at that weight is still alive

10:04:11 BingoBoingo: copypaste: Apparently you don't Walmart enough

10:04:15 copypaste: i have a high BMI, but only because my spine collapsed due to my condition which takes many inches off my height. but even then BMI is only 31.

10:04:18 BingoBoingo: In other news http://qntra.net/2016/01/fiat-markets-continue-slide-as-fiatbtc-interface-prices-recover/#comment-41725

10:04:19 assbot: Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1T7O8rN )

10:04:22 copypaste: i'm 3'1"

10:04:32 BingoBoingo: That's reasonable.

10:05:55 BingoBoingo: You're skeleton's state if it wasn't a fragile mess is a mystery.

10:06:39 copypaste: indeed

10:06:43 BingoBoingo: It's one thing to have a condition. It's another thing to have condishuns.

10:06:51 copypaste: hahaha. yes i know what you mean.

10:10:26 BingoBoingo: It's not like your bones are failing because you decided to test the limits of normal anatomy by butter huffing your way to 500+ pounds

10:11:50 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 486 @ 0.00263159 = 1.279 BTC [-]

10:12:03 BingoBoingo: There really ought to be a moral test to get a scooty puff.

10:17:12 BingoBoingo: A person who lacks the self preservation drive to eat themselves to the mass of two NFL linebackers should have to risk blowing out their knee traversing the walmart.

10:26:39 punkman: BingoBoingo: anything interesting in the jtoomim logz?

10:47:31 punkman: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-35356112

10:47:32 assbot: Sunny Leone wows web over grilling about porn past - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1QnTuhQ )

11:20:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59922 @ 0.00055868 = 33.4772 BTC [+] {2}

12:05:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18930 @ 0.00055927 = 10.587 BTC [+]

12:06:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87896 @ 0.00056139 = 49.3439 BTC [+]

12:24:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379431 << >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-01-2016#1368129

12:24:22 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 02:49:55; BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other news, bitcoin classic has even fewer nodes than bitcoin xt. who was that guy that was the me of something else again ? << They haven't even released a client publically yet

12:24:22 assbot: Logged on 12-01-2016 16:57:11; psztorc: So, "bitcoin classic", with a 2 MB blocksize limit, is likely to have >60% hashrate at this time tomorrow.

12:24:37 mircea_popescu: !rated psztorc

12:24:37 assbot: You rated user psztorc on 23-Sep-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else..

12:25:22 mircea_popescu: dude has no fucking idea a) what likely means ; b) what a gentleman's duty is, the next day after emitting in the forum an enormity like that.

12:26:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63250 @ 0.00056975 = 36.0367 BTC [+] {2}

12:26:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-01-2016#1378739 << yeah. and as i wait, so does the play wait. the itches i get aren't in any sense in my body, for i wash. they're in the body politic, all.

12:26:30 assbot: Logged on 20-01-2016 18:31:11; ascii_butugychag: but if you have a unique itch somewhere deep in a body cavity, and wait for somebody to come and scratch it ~for you~ - you may wait for a while.

12:28:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.0005699 = 22.682 BTC [+] {2}

12:35:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379434 << because meta disease, right.

12:35:39 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 02:55:53; BingoBoingo: Prolly something about seeing how much has would actually commit to their dumpster fire

12:36:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379446 << lol i wonder what'd be left of reddit if kids actually had to show up in school.

12:36:36 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 03:41:08; BingoBoingo: From the mines: "Our best hope to get miners to run bitcoin-classic or XT, is to beg super-hard for it."

12:37:26 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379452 << please no stakhanovist suicides mr. there's been the maximum allowable count of funerals this year.

12:37:26 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 03:56:07; mod6: dear lord, i've had like 9 crackers with cheddar today and like 3 mtdews.

12:37:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379459 << yup right you are, it was.

12:37:53 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 04:26:43; mod6: im pretty sure that one was mallated.

12:38:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379483 << this reminds me of that "i'll be sober in the morning - you'll still be ugly" line.

12:38:53 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 04:53:17; deedbot-: [Qntra] Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover - http://qntra.net/2016/01/fiat-markets-continue-slide-as-fiatbtc-interface-prices-recover/

12:40:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379490 << may i suggest either sticking with the "comprehensible" in which case say -hiDER -loDER or else go for shortness (i don't think you should) and call it -hs -ls ? this "highs" "lows" thing is worst of both worlds.

12:40:20 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 05:18:23; mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review: http://dpaste.com/1E2CM6R.txt

12:41:08 mircea_popescu: as we'll forget which fucking high this is.

12:42:13 jurov: mircea_popescu: afaik DER is just encoding and it's different problem than S value used in signature itself

12:45:48 mircea_popescu: gah.

12:45:58 mircea_popescu: dude and he explained it to me once already. i'm like fixated.

12:47:04 mircea_popescu: mod6 i take it back. it'll have to do, can't be introducing case now.

12:47:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 why take out - vchSig.clear(); if you re-introduce it later in both branches ? ends up adding a line.

12:48:29 mircea_popescu: meh ima restate this.

12:53:23 mircea_popescu: blergh, i don't have the source.

12:53:23 mircea_popescu: sha512sum init.cpp

12:53:24 mircea_popescu: ff7009f672bf400a42d1d7afb6e58aaf1c29d9c219fad51c5f17000243a485e92bbb250d3f4bbec3f0717d00fad620c294d537832671f20c0979fb3f1383779b init.cpp

12:53:33 mircea_popescu: what init.cpp are you working on as an a mod6 ?

12:53:58 shinohai: morning #bitcoin-assets

12:54:07 mircea_popescu: (this is prev release, test2)

12:54:54 mircea_popescu: to try and edit diffs by hand ? to nevermind ?

12:55:58 mircea_popescu: ah as luck would have it key.h matches. weird.

13:22:00 mircea_popescu: unsigned char pchSig[10000]; // Can anyone explain why 10`000 ? Enough with the magic numbers already. << for the fucking record.

13:22:02 mircea_popescu: WHO CODES LIKE THIS

13:25:20 copypaste: i'll take a guess, seems like it's a signature, and 10k bytes is the expected length

13:25:24 copypaste: but that seems insanely long

13:25:43 copypaste: perhaps it's some intermediary for a signature, and the final return will be chopped to say something sane like 64, 128

13:26:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this kind of thing is pestilentially common in 1) microshit 2) folks who grew up on it. 'i'll leave a massive space on the stack so not to overflow because i can't count and also can't trust myself to put it in heap and remember to free()'

13:27:15 mircea_popescu: fuck that shit.

13:27:34 mircea_popescu: security through "bill gates should be enough to anally satisfy everyone"

13:28:24 copypaste: (2) is surprisingly common

13:28:46 copypaste: i've even seen "security patches" where the patch was to make the stack bigger, even though the stack was the right size to begin with

13:28:47 asciilifeform: i worked with a fella like that

13:28:58 copypaste: "so as not to overflow"

13:29:03 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'

13:29:55 asciilifeform: i often wonder, do these folks also have two-metre-wide toilet in the house, so as to not miss ?

13:30:06 asciilifeform: a garage big enough for a boeing, so as to not hit the walls ?

13:30:07 asciilifeform: etc.

13:30:57 asciilifeform: part of the reason why software suxx is that the system appears to be quite forgiving of this kind of intellectual sloth

13:31:04 asciilifeform: 'what's an extra 10kB'

13:31:46 asciilifeform: forgives, and forgives, until we have a bitcoind that wants a GB/week of ram

13:36:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379490 << rather than have the statement checking for luser who set both flags high and barfing, why not have two flags, e.g., 'forceS' and 'lowhighS'.

13:36:27 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 05:18:23; mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review: http://dpaste.com/1E2CM6R.txt

13:38:02 mircea_popescu: motherfucker.

13:38:10 mircea_popescu: SPACE ALLIGNMENT!!!1 who! why! jesus.

13:38:23 mircea_popescu: WHO DOES THESE THINGS

13:38:38 asciilifeform: the heathens, who lack emacs ?

13:39:16 asciilifeform: and others, who edit their shit, who end up forced to use spaces to maintain the width ?

13:39:24 asciilifeform: idiocy is ~contagious~

13:39:59 asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability

13:40:25 asciilifeform: and is in fact something lusers are famous for doing - recall the folks which the 'comment commits' and 'formatting fixes' who munge entire projects ?

13:40:30 mircea_popescu: fuck that, im making a proper file. the diff looks like the end of the fucking world, but hey.

13:43:31 mircea_popescu: mod6 http://dpaste.com/2CH23F5 << in the humble hope that it may serve.

13:43:33 assbot: dpaste: 2CH23F5 ... ( http://bit.ly/1npzalm )

13:46:59 mircea_popescu: <copypaste> i've even seen "security patches" where the patch was to make the stack bigger, even though the stack was the right size to begin with << mitigation amirite.

13:48:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: argh this is painful

13:48:19 mircea_popescu: i know ;/

13:48:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you realize, this is likely the biggest patch so far

13:48:33 asciilifeform: and almost all of it is whitespace-munging

13:48:51 mircea_popescu: look, i can't use fucking space allignment. for one thing on some systems i need it 2space and on others 4.

13:49:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you must do this, the right way is to separate the two

13:49:14 mircea_popescu: not to even go into all the semantic degradation when you go from 2 separators to just 1.

13:49:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1 patch for the meat, another where just munge

13:49:37 asciilifeform: because the latter can be machine-checked

13:49:40 mircea_popescu: well, honestly, this wasn't intended as a release candidate, more like a commentary item

13:49:40 asciilifeform: at least in theory

13:49:43 asciilifeform: ok

13:49:53 mircea_popescu: for your convenience ima make one with spaces unmunged, 1 sec.

13:50:09 asciilifeform: ty. i might actually have the stamina to read that one.

13:51:21 asciilifeform: fwiw i've deliberately refrained from munging whitespace or even fixing the asinine { } convention used in trb

13:51:33 asciilifeform: just to minimize touched-line count

13:52:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG

13:52:03 assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( http://bit.ly/1npAFQi )

13:52:09 asciilifeform: because reading patches is serious work, i personally do not even have all that much time and energy these days, and other folks less still. i try to conserve it.

13:52:22 asciilifeform: neato mircea_popescu. much better !

13:52:28 mircea_popescu: i have no idea how i'd in any sense seriously do anything with bs

13:52:46 mircea_popescu: yes, conserve. on the other hand, the unknown unknowns : how many people currently simply CAN NOT help because of this ?

13:53:01 asciilifeform: because of whitespace ?

13:53:06 mircea_popescu: bullshit like you know, avboiding the word cunt because it might make it impossible for some developers to contribute isn't worth the time of day

13:53:16 mircea_popescu: but spaces for tabs is a fucking disability.

13:53:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tu quoque ffs! just five minutes ago, you got to see what it does.

13:54:19 asciilifeform: the spaces thing is just one in 10,001 sad things in a jupiter-sized ball of sad that is trb.

13:54:39 mircea_popescu: in honesty, without any exaggeration, i would estimate the barrier to contribution that whitespace-for-tab puts in front of me is actually larger than the barrier blindness put in front of chetty.

13:54:42 mircea_popescu: no joking.

13:54:57 mircea_popescu: and i can't be the only one.

13:55:34 asciilifeform: the way this kind of thing is traditionally handled, where i worked, is that you fix the lines you touch.

13:55:41 mircea_popescu: that's what i did.

13:55:50 asciilifeform: in the last paste ?

13:56:08 mircea_popescu: ah. well i fixed the file i touched.

13:56:19 mircea_popescu: srsly, mixed tab/space indentation in a file is worse than either.

13:56:35 asciilifeform: btw,

13:56:36 asciilifeform: + if (fHighS)

13:56:36 asciilifeform: + if (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0)

13:56:38 mircea_popescu: it's bad enough in a project. in a same file it's insufferable.

13:56:55 asciilifeform: oughtat be

13:56:57 asciilifeform: if (fHighS && (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0))

13:57:25 asciilifeform: your variant is valid c but 'riding with no hands'

13:57:42 mircea_popescu: technically mod6's variant, i only removed some spurious tails. but i think you're right.

13:57:55 asciilifeform: generally i like to avoid hastening ulcers if possible

14:02:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379583 << incidentally, ~this~ is what the 'origin' command in my vtron did

14:02:10 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 12:53:23; mircea_popescu: blergh, i don't have the source.

14:02:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a problem - i should have the source.

14:02:33 mircea_popescu: ie, it should be the prev release.

14:03:36 asciilifeform: ./v o HASH would spit out the relevant vpatch name

14:03:49 asciilifeform: which you could then press to, and end up with the necessary source.

14:04:42 asciilifeform: i included this because i have 10,001 copies of the tree and every single one is different and wtf

14:20:39 asciilifeform: https://www.bikeji.com/t/3144 << anybody want to attempt a reliable translation from heathen tongue ?

14:40:07 mircea_popescu: in retrospect, i deeply regret not having had the sense of s/ /\t/g back when i made the original genesis commit. but... who knew the future then, and sopmehow being true to source, providing untouched water seemed more important. heck, maybe it was, and the only reason i get to regret doing it is having done it, which keeps me from the more bitter regret of having done it.

14:40:22 mircea_popescu: at any rate : maybe it's not too late to fix. what do the lords think about this plan :

14:40:51 mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.

14:41:32 mircea_popescu: !rated mod6

14:41:32 assbot: You rated user mod6 on 27-Nov-2014, with a rating of 4, and supplied these additional notes: The cave, age, tace school of thought. Nice work with the Bitcoin Foundation..

14:43:25 mircea_popescu: !rate mod6 5 His curative TRB leadership is a shining beacon for the entire Republic.

14:43:25 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5b4786450aa1d5d9

14:43:47 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mod6.5:cde99987242f16de77dd84d523f93a0717dc5ed2029031b9ea1c7659e22c45da

14:43:48 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mod6 from 4 to 5 with note: His curative TRB leadership is a shining beacon for the entire Republic.

14:44:29 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: the tab/space thing has infected the source code?

14:48:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform heathen text seems a summary of the entire "scaling" bitcoin bs.

15:09:27 mod6: Mornin' all.

15:10:16 mod6: Sorry about the spaces in there where I put in my changes, I can and will fix that for my changes. And yeah, I think post-release it may not be a bad idea to do a one-time-cleanup of all of that.

15:11:04 mod6: <+asciilifeform> if (fHighS && (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0)) <+asciilifeform> generally i like to avoid hastening ulcers if possible << yeah, i dont know why I didn't do this to begin with. Heheh.

15:12:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i'm heavily in favour of the 'fix only the lines we touch' school of thought. the whole point of pedigreed-vintage trb is that the totality of the changes we made is apparent to the naked eye.

15:13:02 asciilifeform: this is one of the things that distinguishes trb from heathenb

15:13:15 asciilifeform: 'your father's pistols' etc

15:14:05 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG << re: There is no reason to test for both highS and lowS being set, because this is tested in init.cpp already, ... << For some reason I had it in my head that since this gets set in util.h/.cpp that both may become set at some point post execution if someone does something funny.

15:14:07 assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( http://bit.ly/1npAFQi )

15:14:08 mircea_popescu: mod6 you didn't do it because it wasn't in your code, it only appeared once i snipped a bunch

15:14:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know ;/

15:14:33 mod6: oh hmm. i think i put in some spaces in there.

15:14:38 mircea_popescu: but ... a specified, machine-verifiable, multi-signed split ? not acceptable ?

15:16:25 mod6: also, about http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG : I left the original code in Sign(...) in the } else { case because i thought it be necessary to have a default. if we don't have one, it forces the user to pick -highs -lows every single time they execute.

15:16:26 assbot: dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( http://bit.ly/1npAFQi )

15:17:16 mircea_popescu: mod6 this is a point, but really that heathen 10k declaration should go away.

15:17:30 mod6: oh i totally agree. its just an old wart.

15:17:34 mircea_popescu: maybe i'm misreading this, but atm if neither high nor low is picked the code does spit out a sig neh ?

15:17:45 mircea_popescu: ie, in my paste.

15:19:05 mod6: oh yeah, derp. so in yours it will just skip the compare and if true, subtract sections.

15:19:31 mod6: so that should be fine.

15:20:05 mod6: does anyone have any pref on the commented out DEBUG statements for the finalized one? just remove them?

15:20:17 mod6: yah, i better remove those.

15:20:28 mircea_popescu: they can stay or go, entirely up to you.

15:20:44 mircea_popescu: i don't particularly mind commented-out line tests.

15:21:02 mod6: thanks for all of your comments this morning. I appreciate everyone taking a look at this one.

15:21:02 mircea_popescu: if nothing else gives a good idea of what the author was thinking.

15:22:13 mircea_popescu: actually, forcing a point, commented out line tests is really the first step towards knuth literate coding.

15:23:01 mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, is not to be taken lightly. it occurs to me, looking at all this, that it has a very fundamental function in maintaining codebases of the KIND that bitcoin is.

15:23:24 punkman: there's literate and there's littering

15:23:26 mircea_popescu: specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison)

15:23:37 mircea_popescu: now, battles as to change are softened : people discuss reformulations OF THE COMMENTARY.

15:23:48 mircea_popescu: as that changes, changes in code slowly become ever slightly more possible

15:23:54 mircea_popescu: this is a splendid mechanism to provide true consensus.

15:24:17 thestringpuller: LOL >> "Don't forget Mr Popescu, who loves to harp on about how Bitcoin is not for the unwashed masses, just two weeks ago had a hugely embarrassing fiasco where he revealed he hadn't the faintest idea how Bitcoin transactions work.

15:24:20 mircea_popescu: punkman true. hence the 100 lines are the result of numerous different pressures.

15:24:21 thestringpuller: Like most newbies he thought you spent from addresses rather than prior receipts."

15:24:38 mod6: <+asciilifeform> i often wonder, do these folks also have two-metre-wide toilet in the house, so as to not miss ? << i lel'd

15:25:08 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller we can;'t all be geniuses, can we now.

15:27:45 mircea_popescu: of course the talmud gets away with an earth shattering bonus : "other rules notwithstanding, the law in any place is what the law always was there". they can afford, somehow, to keep geographically bound chains that are disjunct. we can't. but hey, chosen people, gets advantages.

15:28:35 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison) << I never thought of it this way.

15:28:40 mod6: interesting.

15:29:34 mircea_popescu: that there should be more comment than code in something like bitcoin source seems an unassailable point, to me.

15:30:15 punkman: less cryptic variable naming would also be great

15:30:25 deedbot-: [fraudsters] The funny thing about the fallen is that they do not know they fell. - http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-funny-thing-about-the-fallen-is-that-they-do-not-know-they-fell/

15:30:50 mircea_popescu: not a great fan of vchSig and bs myself, eother.

15:30:52 mod6: i would agree there, but on the basis that the comments are accurate in a technical sense. nothing worse than misleading comments or documentation, as we've recently discussed.

15:31:04 mircea_popescu: mod6 absolutely. hence punkman's point re littering.

15:31:11 mod6: *nod*

15:31:33 punkman: problem is, who wants 100 patches with comments only

15:31:40 mircea_popescu: me.

15:31:43 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> not a great fan of vchSig and bs myself, eother. << yeah, im not sure why the var name needs to delcare that it is a vector of chars.

15:31:59 mircea_popescu: i suspect this is also msvc widgetry.

15:32:09 mod6: ^

15:33:16 mircea_popescu: the problem of tab-spaces is indicative of many similar blessings to come.

15:33:28 mircea_popescu: once half the variables are in one style and half in three or four other styles etc.

15:33:51 mircea_popescu: kinda why i insist we must do the "by file touched" rather than "by lines touched" thing.

15:33:52 mod6: yeah, valid point.

15:33:55 mircea_popescu: a file can't mix unlike things.

15:35:34 mod6: re: your comment about tabs of width 2 or 4; going forward, I'll use width 4.

15:35:40 mircea_popescu: huh ?

15:35:56 mircea_popescu: how are ~you~ going to do anything about it ? i set my machine to show them any way i want.

15:36:46 mod6: right right. but I think i put in some spaces in my code there for alignment. just saying, i'll stick to using four.

15:36:53 mircea_popescu: a yeah.

15:38:29 mod6: your patch really is easier to read since leaving in the vchSig.clear() etc at the top instead of moving it to the bottom like mine had.

15:38:41 mod6: many thanks.

15:38:54 mircea_popescu: eh you're the one should be thanked.

15:41:28 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> well, honestly, this wasn't intended as a release candidate, more like a commentary item << ok good deal. was kinda wondering if the forthcoming release patch should bundle this one in or not.

15:42:09 mircea_popescu: well, i do think to some degree your patch should be restated, but not in the sense of replacing it altogether

15:42:29 mod6: Was thinking of putting in alf's latest two also -- but I think we need some confirmation on at least the version string one. shinohai was having some snags with it.

15:43:13 *: mircea_popescu is loath to do too much of that sort, because as correctly pointed out, mircea_popescu is a noob in the low level technical sense. without an array of experts to advise and correct, i'll just fuck everything up.

15:43:16 mod6: asciilifeform: not sure if you found some of questions/comments in the log from yesterday re this ^^

15:43:38 asciilifeform: wai wut

15:44:03 mircea_popescu: i also don't fix any of the combustion engines that i own by myself - even if once i took apart and put back together a trabant.

15:44:17 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> well, i do think to some degree your patch should be restated, but not in the sense of replacing it altogether << yeah, ok. i'll do some work here today / tonight, do a re-test and the hopefully get it to the ML before the week is out.

15:44:31 asciilifeform: mod6: what was this about 'snags' with the version patch ?

15:44:40 mod6: we can discuss this again as we get further along.

15:44:40 asciilifeform: i can't seem to find it in the logz

15:44:50 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: what was this about 'snags' with the version patch ? << i'll dig it up, just a sec.

15:45:09 thestringpuller: Ah this takes the cake: "I had to reload Reddit like 4 times before it started working. If reddit wants me as a customer, they should increase their blocksize"

15:45:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379738 << that particular heathenry has a name, 'hungarian notation'. named after some chap at microshit who believed that it reduces bugs

15:45:15 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:31:59; mircea_popescu: i suspect this is also msvc widgetry.

15:45:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im sure there it did.

15:46:12 mod6: starts here asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-01-2016#1379310

15:46:12 assbot: Logged on 20-01-2016 23:46:05; shinohai: Also mod6 re: version strings, placing flags first had zero effect so I probably did something wrong. :/

15:46:20 asciilifeform: it is sort of like concept that once came to me in a dream, about some alt-world where all names are sexed, and hence nobody is named 'alice', but 'fmalice', no 'bob', but 'malbob'

15:46:33 mircea_popescu: i don't think the difference was ever stressed enough or for that matter all that well understood. what "big studios" do for software, ie, throwaway crap that's not expected to a) work for everyone or b) work for more than a few years is VERY STRICTLY opposite to what bitcoin does.

15:46:44 mircea_popescu: just like "AAA titles" and eulora have jack in common, but that's a side point.

15:46:56 asciilifeform: this seems thermonuclearly obvious

15:47:05 asciilifeform: to anybody even tangentially involved

15:47:05 mircea_popescu: to you.

15:47:09 asciilifeform: l0l

15:48:21 mircea_popescu: malbob and f-malice. this should be a fucking poem.

15:48:24 mircea_popescu: it's as poetic as it gets.

15:48:42 mod6: heheh

15:48:48 asciilifeform: mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! because said printf ~precedes~ the setting of the custom string. this may explain shinohai's confusion.

15:49:00 mircea_popescu: anyway, in ro names are sexed - mircea is the only male name that ends in a.

15:49:26 shinohai: ah now I understand asciilifeform thx

15:49:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've met ro dudes who go by nicknames, e.g., cata (catalin) etc

15:49:45 mircea_popescu: that's not a, that's a~

15:49:54 asciilifeform: ah!

15:50:51 mircea_popescu: actually the convention is you can take any male name add a and name a girl thus.

15:50:54 mircea_popescu: hence catalina.

15:51:01 thestringpuller: catalina

15:52:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379716 <<<< http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-01-2016#1375547

15:52:22 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:23:26; mircea_popescu: specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison)

15:52:22 assbot: Logged on 18-01-2016 19:16:29; ascii_butugychag: i assume that everybody here has at least seen a page of talmud ?

15:52:30 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! << personally I haven't even tried this yet. but I think he was saying that he checked the getinfo and that hadn't updated either.

15:53:03 mod6: i'll see if i can get to it today, and give it a try myself.

15:53:15 mircea_popescu: have you eaten mod6 ?

15:53:27 mod6: haha no.

15:53:29 mircea_popescu: go eat.

15:53:47 mod6: i am about to eat a decent breakfast in like 1.5 hours.

15:53:47 mircea_popescu: do not take after me. for even as we speak, the girls are up and chirping in the kitchen making me stuff.

15:53:53 mod6: ok, i'm gonna go have an orange.

15:53:57 mircea_popescu: cool!

15:54:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite.

15:56:05 shinohai: mod6 Load up those 7 hookers you spoke of last night and come over. I got lox and eggs.

15:56:16 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what are they making you for breakfast?

15:56:36 mircea_popescu: i have no idea. but it'll include fig bars!

15:56:49 mircea_popescu: yesterday was smoked salmon, cheeses and cured meats.

15:57:05 thestringpuller: i wish I knew women that cooked

15:57:18 thestringpuller: america with it's faux feminism has kinda killed cooking

15:57:29 mircea_popescu: ironically, none of these knew either.

15:57:38 mircea_popescu: visiting mother at some point "omaigerd you cook so good!!1"

15:57:58 thestringpuller: nothing beats good training! (except maybe a good beating)

15:58:46 mircea_popescu: cooking is actually an artform, indisputably, and readily the easiest to be good at and happy with yourself for.

15:58:54 mircea_popescu: who gets to eat the clay pot or painting ?

16:03:44 shinohai: https://redd.it/420fzw <<< kek

16:03:46 assbot: Is anyone else sick of all the bullshit ethereum spam??? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ue51zq )

16:09:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57168 @ 0.00056956 = 32.5606 BTC [-]

16:23:20 mod6: ;;calc 607*2000

16:23:21 gribble: 1214000

16:24:16 mod6: it says that during this 'Stakhanovite movement' in the su, this guy Nikita Izotov mined 607 TONS of coal in a single shift. That's ~1M folks.

16:24:47 mod6: O_O

16:25:00 mircea_popescu: meanwhile debunked, but yeah

16:25:07 mod6: oh.

16:25:12 mircea_popescu: it's a by-word for capital-destroying "concerted efforts".

16:26:21 mircea_popescu: ie, "this cpu normally does 4ghz, i run it at 8. it's doing so much more for me than... oops, it popped. need a new cpu"

16:33:44 mod6: makes sense.

16:44:25 mircea_popescu: ./uint256.h: static char phexdigit[256] = { 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0xa,0xb,0xc,0xd,0xe,0xf,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0xa,0xb,0xc,0xd,0xe,0xf,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 };

16:44:31 mircea_popescu: da fuck is this maigc.

16:47:26 mircea_popescu: holy shit the stuff that's in uint256.h ?!

16:47:30 mircea_popescu: anyone seen this wonder http://dpaste.com/1JNBGCX ?

16:47:31 assbot: dpaste: 1JNBGCX ... ( http://bit.ly/1VbfprQ )

16:48:08 asciilifeform: l0l i can't wait till mircea_popescu discovers all of the 'wonders'

16:48:59 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379823 << ударник (tm)

16:48:59 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 16:25:12; mircea_popescu: it's a by-word for capital-destroying "concerted efforts".

16:49:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prior to the article i'm writing now, i had naively believed the thing is some standard library imported from whenever

16:50:07 asciilifeform: which thing

16:50:58 mircea_popescu: uint256.h

16:51:31 asciilifeform: you will notice that #include "uint256.h"

16:51:37 asciilifeform: rather than #include <uint256.h>

16:52:59 mircea_popescu: i have meanwhile noticed

16:53:07 mircea_popescu: i hadn't priorly noticed. what's one to do

16:53:40 asciilifeform: the whole thing is 99+% crapolade by weight, and nobody sane dares to 'fix what works' because 'father's pistols'

16:55:34 mircea_popescu: incidentally, did we have a lxr up of the codebase or something ?

16:55:42 asciilifeform: aha, jurov keeps it

16:55:56 asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option

16:55:57 assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1JkZeaQ )

16:56:16 asciilifeform: (use the box on the right hand upper corner to switch presses)

16:56:36 asciilifeform: until recently i used this www for just about all trb study

16:56:54 mircea_popescu: before i couldn't do merchant of venice because broken tools. now can't because instead going through 10k lines dump to find the junk.

16:56:55 mircea_popescu: o lyf.

16:58:43 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> anyone seen this wonder http://dpaste.com/1JNBGCX ? << scary huh

16:58:44 assbot: dpaste: 1JNBGCX ... ( http://bit.ly/1VbfprQ )

16:58:44 mircea_popescu: ./net.cpp: Sleep(10);

16:58:48 mircea_popescu: omfg ok i need a break

17:03:37 *: asciilifeform wonders what moved mircea_popescu to try his hand at trbism

17:08:15 trinque: /b #sales

17:08:19 trinque: heh!

17:08:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever been in college and ended up picking up chicks you were only half interested in because it sure as fuck beat doing the work you had to do that day ?

17:09:36 mircea_popescu: ThreadOpenConnections2(parg); << im not even including inept shit like this. clearly someone deeply understood threading.

17:10:58 mircea_popescu: int64 nRandomizer = (uint64)(nStart * 4951 + addr.nLastTry * 9567851 + addr.ip * 7789) % (2 * 60 * 60);

17:11:03 mircea_popescu: motherfucking god almighty.

17:14:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: approximately

17:14:27 asciilifeform: the WHOLE THING consists of THIS

17:15:23 asciilifeform: and as i described (and i think ben_vulpes did even earlier) the thing isn't ~actually~ multithreaded, in the sense of being able to evaluate multiple requests in parallel

17:15:42 mircea_popescu: ./main.h: void SetNull() { nFile = -1; nBlockPos = 0; nTxPos = 0; } << lulz of all time.

17:15:52 mircea_popescu: null squared is sometimes equal to the unit!

17:16:01 mircea_popescu: i should like to visit this algebra sometime.

17:16:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform definitely not multithreaded. which, given the strength of everything else, is a very good thing.

17:16:40 asciilifeform: nah it retains all of the minuses of multithread.

17:16:48 asciilifeform: with none of the plus.

17:16:54 mircea_popescu: just going from "could be a lot worse"

17:17:13 asciilifeform: thing is as bad as it could possibly be without falling down at the first gust of wind.

17:17:54 mircea_popescu: o god, the parade of magic substr addresses

17:17:54 asciilifeform: but there are, e.g., 101+ ways to hose an arbitrarily selected node for as long as you like

17:19:06 asciilifeform: and there is a variety of things you can coax a node into doing if you can corrupt the db; etc

17:19:50 mircea_popescu: no idea why anyone thinks "bitcoin will take over the world". they can't possibly be talking of the prb codebase.

17:20:24 asciilifeform: the current prb is a different kind of hell altogether

17:21:28 mircea_popescu: all this initing to -1 business...

17:21:41 mircea_popescu: who, over the mental age of ~12, does this

17:22:01 asciilifeform: if trb is sleeping in a dumpster and picking old razors out of the rotting mcd 'meal' trays to eat, prb is drowning in a usg paper dump

17:22:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: init to -1 is classical unixism, sorta like initing pointers to null

17:22:53 mircea_popescu: there is that.

17:23:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno how classical. perhaps in the gavin aka retarded sense of classical,

17:25:33 asciilifeform: the basic idiocy of unix is that there is NO error checking in any system call

17:25:44 asciilifeform: you are stuck checking the result of EVERY SINGLE ONE - or praying

17:26:02 asciilifeform: so folks init a var where result of system call is stored to the value of failure

17:26:20 asciilifeform: to make debugging the case where the call was not made at all, for whatever perverse reason, simpler.

17:27:20 asciilifeform: obligatory >> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3141310154691952@naggum.no.html

17:27:21 assbot: Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1PkDDln )

17:27:21 mircea_popescu: then there's the case (as is here) of folk who can't get out of the fencing error so fix the code on the 2nd pass.

17:27:39 mircea_popescu: "i guess this really should start counting at -2"

17:28:34 asciilifeform: '...neither Unix nor Windows _actually_ support either C or C++, but they manage to make them work, with downright incredible effort. if you look inside the libraries and see how a system call actually works and how much it differs from the C calling convention and usage, you'd be a fool not to revise your opinion. and _does_ an operating system that forces the programmer to check to see whether the operating system did what

17:28:34 asciilifeform: it was asked to do every damn time you ask it to do anything actually give any relevant form of support to anyone?'

17:28:38 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "./wallet.cpp: exit(1); //We now probably have half of our keys encrypted in memory, and half not...die and let the user reload their unencrypted wallet."

17:31:07 asciilifeform: i did say, in the very beginning, 'i want this in a book, as a reference' etc

17:31:29 asciilifeform: because the notion of using this thing, or anything directly derived from it, as a long-term anything, is lunacy.

17:31:57 asciilifeform: 'fixing' it is sorta like asking to 'fix' the dumpster mcdonalds chicken bits into an actual meal.

17:32:17 asciilifeform: yes, odin could re-arrange the atoms and form a fine dinner fit for mircea_popescu's table.

17:32:30 asciilifeform: but don't wait for this.

17:35:42 asciilifeform: and also don't wait for me to write a fits-in-head and provably non-misbehaving btc client, even though i would much like to, know exactly how, and even have bits'n'pieces sitting around. because instead of this i'm stuck doing pointless crud in шарашка, so as to eat.

17:36:22 thestringpuller: so if we provide asciilifeform 's meals then he is freed from imprisonment?

17:36:35 mircea_popescu: sooner or later free man version of alf will pop into existence.

17:36:44 mircea_popescu: from the ashes of the very alf in question or not, remains to be seen

17:36:46 asciilifeform: well, we already have a mircea_popescu

17:37:06 asciilifeform: and he appears to have taken up programming...

17:37:15 thestringpuller: pheonix asciilifeform will be a very interesting person indeed

17:37:27 asciilifeform: why do you need two mircea_popescus.

17:37:33 mircea_popescu: the man who had a working plane and no boat made himself a leaky boat that couldn't fly. then the japanese bombed him.

17:37:55 thestringpuller: you could always go the gavin route and beg MIT for money.

17:38:05 thestringpuller: but i don't think that results in freedom

17:38:06 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if you knew what i do for money today you would barf to death.

17:38:31 thestringpuller: does that involve taking it up the butt regularly for money?

17:38:57 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: nah, that's harmless fun in comparison

17:39:42 mircea_popescu: ./script.h: const_iterator pc2 = pc;

17:39:43 mircea_popescu: why!

17:40:14 thestringpuller: my job usually devolves into copy-pasting from one terminal to another for hours at a time.

17:40:33 thestringpuller: how programming == data entry, I don't know

17:41:36 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: and can't automate this, because will be sacked, as pictured in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=388 ?

17:41:38 assbot: Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1PWqkWp )

17:41:50 mircea_popescu: return 99999;

17:42:52 mircea_popescu: --

17:42:53 mircea_popescu: ./base58.h: // Expected size increase from base58 conversion is approximately 137%

17:42:53 mircea_popescu: ./base58.h: // use 138% to be safe

17:43:33 mircea_popescu: for instance, 10OIl0OIl0OIl0OIl== in base64 comes to 138% more crud in "base58"

17:44:19 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Legend has it that Potter was promptly fired, never to be heard from again. << HOLY FUCKTITS. This is my life!

17:47:17 asciilifeform: whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing.

17:47:49 asciilifeform: yes, there are folks who are serious chessboxers. but for some reason i've never heard of such a fella winning a world chess OR boxing title.

17:48:03 asciilifeform: for the most part, nature does not deal in chimeras.

17:50:16 thestringpuller: this reminds me of the heinlein quote: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for i

17:50:34 asciilifeform: and one of the problems with 'free men' is that growing up as one tends to result in 'an aristotle' - aristocrat, who may be a very sharp fella but is not especially handy with 'slave crafts' and would normally not stoop to, e.g., programming a computer

17:51:10 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: heinlein was... a story-teller.

17:51:18 asciilifeform: there is nothing wrong with this.

17:51:28 thestringpuller: it sounds like you don't believe a polymath can truly exist

17:51:42 thestringpuller: cannot*

17:51:45 gernika: ob

17:51:57 thestringpuller: err language escapes my bacon filled self

17:51:58 gernika: !down gernika

17:52:55 asciilifeform: 'polymath' i suspect would describe most of the folks here. but the point i was trying to make is that in many ways certain aspects of mircea_popescu's picture in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379901 are intrinsically opposed

17:52:55 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 17:36:35; mircea_popescu: sooner or later free man version of alf will pop into existence.

17:54:10 thestringpuller: Hmmm. Seems this could be issue with jgarzik. Some like, 10 years of focus at redhat. Is "freed" from his slave labor, does nothing with his freedom.

17:54:28 asciilifeform: this applies to EVERY SINGLE CASE of 'freed' programming type i've ever met or so much as heard of.

17:55:19 thestringpuller: question arises, "How to use freedom productively?"

17:55:43 asciilifeform: 'don't destroy your brain with 20 years of cube first' ?

17:56:01 asciilifeform: the freedom of the 80 y.o. retiree is not interesting for anything.

17:56:13 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing. << pfff. nonsense.

17:56:26 thestringpuller: obviously because 80 year old just wants to fuck bitches and chill.

17:59:52 asciilifeform: now i've never actually met a chess-boxer. but it would not astonish me if i learned that they keep the company of other boxers and regard actual Gro?meisters, who devoted their lives to chess, as effete lusers.

18:00:37 mircea_popescu: so basically you're a heinlein for your own needs.

18:00:50 asciilifeform: what's that mean

18:01:53 mircea_popescu: that you're making up stories. for a captive audience that's easy to please.

18:02:04 mircea_popescu: back at insanity ranch, ./net.h: vSend << a1 << a2 << a3;

18:02:19 mircea_popescu: why not call all variables v1 through v9000 is anyone's guyess.

18:02:41 asciilifeform: why not visit the sanity ranch and see how they did it

18:03:07 asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu ever wonder about the scarcity of code written by sane folks ?

18:03:22 asciilifeform: i suspect that learning to program is a fundamentally insane act.

18:03:29 asciilifeform: and that this is the prime mover of it all.

18:03:41 mircea_popescu: not so. just like fucking isn't a fundamentally insane act.

18:03:52 asciilifeform: it is rather like asking why circus acrobats are odd folk

18:04:01 mircea_popescu: your arguments exactly mirror a broken version of reality pushed forth by overgrown girls that are yet affraid to be women.

18:04:12 asciilifeform: which one ?

18:05:04 mircea_popescu: "learning to program is a fundamentally insane act."

18:06:34 asciilifeform: it is a hypothesis with much predictive power, and is not altogether different from aristotle's position on whether kings ought to learn blacksmithing

18:06:59 mircea_popescu: still a dead end. exactly equivalent with soviet woman's conclusion that getting married is an exercise in insanity.

18:07:44 asciilifeform: the woman, on the whole, has a biological role

18:08:05 asciilifeform: and tends to break in ways not covered by warranty, as a whole, if fails to perform it

18:08:20 asciilifeform: but as far as i'm aware, there is no biological 'programmer race'

18:08:36 asciilifeform: (as dwarves 'must mine' in 'd&d' universes)

18:08:59 mircea_popescu: i can't say i see merit in any of these propositions.

18:09:41 asciilifeform: i'd be worried if mircea_popescu ~did~ see merit, would suspect that the universe is coming unglued

18:09:47 mircea_popescu: lol

18:12:51 asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, clever folk who strike gold in whatever form, who programmed, tend to gravitate away from it - iirc mthreat is doing a sane thing, flying old ru jets, rather than dredging through cpp crud

18:13:39 asciilifeform: and from mircea_popescu's articles i get the impression that his meatspace friends are respectable folk, 'high power' lawyers, traders, etc. rather than cpp connoisseurs

18:13:47 asciilifeform: sane people.

18:14:14 mircea_popescu: chet coded c++.

18:14:40 asciilifeform: and even mircea_popescu apparently does, on occasion.

18:14:43 mircea_popescu: and the idea is inept. yes i know a lot of "respectable folk". i also know a lot of common whores. and everything in between.

18:14:53 asciilifeform: the whores are respectable.

18:14:54 mircea_popescu: i even know some dogs.

18:14:56 asciilifeform: as are dogs

18:14:57 mircea_popescu: and a coupla whorses.

18:16:04 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and even mircea_popescu apparently does, on occasion. << actually that dpaste earlier was the first time in at least 10 years.

18:16:33 asciilifeform: at any rate, it is perfectly safe for a king to entertain himself by being a blacksmith, or a sailor - as peter the great did

18:16:59 asciilifeform: (and iirc he was a pretty good one)

18:18:09 mircea_popescu: it's however NOT safe at all for blacksmith to entertain himself by telling stories about what peter does and why.

18:18:12 asciilifeform: but folks who knew the forge from the age of five, tend to not end up kings..

18:18:19 mircea_popescu: this is also not true.

18:18:47 asciilifeform: i suppose herr ceausescu would be a counter-example

18:19:22 mircea_popescu: numerous examples throughout.

18:19:24 mircea_popescu: ;;google voda ioan potcoava

18:19:25 gribble: Ioan Potcoavă - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioan_Potcoav%C4%83; Ioan Nicoară Potcoavă, domn al Moldovei - Istoria.md: http://www.istoria.md/articol/574/Ioan_Nicoar%C4%83_Potcoav%C4%83,_domn_al_Moldovei; Domnitori - Ioan Nicoară Potcoavă - Moldovenii.md: http://www.moldovenii.md/md/people/699

18:19:29 asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu is correct re: that i cannot possibly have any idea ~why~ peter 1 did what he did.

18:21:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ioan p. reminds me, there really oughta be some good material floating about re: the 20th c. chinese 'warlords' (as they are for some reason called in english world)

18:21:18 mircea_popescu: well... what'd you call them ? seems quite apt.

18:21:20 asciilifeform: some of them were pretty interesting folk

18:21:36 asciilifeform: one comes to mind, who hired germans to build him a mustard gas factory

18:22:34 asciilifeform: http://poetry.uazone.net/kobzar/ivan_pidkova.html << spiffy

18:22:44 asciilifeform: somehow i escaped this in ukr school

18:22:50 mircea_popescu: weird huh.

18:23:28 asciilifeform: Панували, добували / І славу, і волю; / Минулося — осталися / Могили на полі.

18:23:31 asciilifeform: notbad.jpg

18:23:52 mircea_popescu: i suppose programmers also don't get to know about respectable hatmans ?

18:24:03 asciilifeform: hey i knew a few.

18:24:07 mircea_popescu: requires being fed royal jelly to know of this!

18:25:02 asciilifeform: батька атаман (tm) (r)

18:25:33 mircea_popescu: FILE* file = fopen(strprintf("%s/blk%04d.dat", GetDataDir().c_str(), nFile).c_str(), pszMode);

18:28:00 mircea_popescu: !up Terry4

18:30:29 thestringpuller: ;;ud royal jelly

18:30:30 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Royal+Jelly | Royal Jelly. The glorious coating surrounding a cock when it pulls out of an asshole that has not been prelubed. The asshole has created a natural lubricant that ...

18:30:51 mircea_popescu: ./main.cpp- for (;;) << i don't get it, if it's going to do plain for(;;) why the fuck does it want the fancy boost_foreach ?

18:31:20 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it\'s the stuff bee larva get fed to become sluts rather than housewives.

18:31:35 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=388&cpage=1#comment-17578 << l0l thestringpuller

18:31:38 assbot: Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1PkP4t9 )

18:32:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for(;;) is an infinite loop

18:32:45 asciilifeform: boost_foreach is not, it is an iterator over some set

18:33:09 mircea_popescu: oh i thought it had some implicit termination, nm.

18:33:33 asciilifeform: incidentally not so long ago i felt the desire to rewrite chunks of trb to abolish boost

18:33:40 asciilifeform: by using c++11-isms

18:33:42 Terry4: Did you see the strategy about subsiding bitcoin miners to stay on the original BTC, (as a last case scenario to defeat any alt-chain)?

18:33:50 asciilifeform: but then realized that this would lead us into perdition

18:33:56 asciilifeform: that is, using corrupted versions of gcc

18:35:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would much like a complete list of boost structures, with analysis.

18:35:31 mircea_popescu: but we're not there yet. so far, prepping a list of magic numbers.

18:35:43 mircea_popescu: five or so steps below. but gotta start where the seafloor is, nothing else.

18:35:45 asciilifeform: (boost exists largely because cpp is not actually programmable in without using something like boost. which has been largely incorporated into the recent standard.)

18:36:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what you're really interested in is std:: structures

18:36:29 mircea_popescu: ./main.cpp: if (nProcessors < 1) nProcessors = 1;

18:36:38 asciilifeform: boost is used in trb for iterators, for the most part

18:36:50 mircea_popescu: my display is slowlyt decaying from displaying this fucking buffer

18:37:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was thinking that would go later.

18:37:04 asciilifeform: jurov did some diggin on std::map and everybody barfed

18:37:14 asciilifeform: unsurprisingly

18:37:31 mircea_popescu: i think ima end up with fucking dead pixels that satoshi burned.

18:37:45 asciilifeform: whatcha even doing

18:38:04 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> but we're not there yet. so far, prepping a list of magic numbers. <<

18:38:11 asciilifeform: as in stray constants ?

18:38:22 mircea_popescu: no. as in magic numbers. anyway, you'll see.

18:38:24 mircea_popescu: ./bitcoinrpc.h:// Copyright (c) 2010 Satoshi Nakamoto

18:38:24 mircea_popescu: ./bitcoinrpc.h:// Copyright (c) 2011 The Bitcoin developers

18:38:31 mircea_popescu: ^inept fuckiing shit. who the fuck thinks this is how it works ?

18:38:46 asciilifeform: every batch of plowing flies on the planet ?

18:39:00 mircea_popescu: Copyright 2010 Disney corp ; Copyright 2013 internet-derps. whynot!

18:39:34 asciilifeform: 'kicking the dead lion'

18:41:32 *: asciilifeform bbl

18:42:50 mircea_popescu: ./db.cpp: // Tray icon sometimes disappears on 9.10 karmic koala 64-bit, leaving no way to access the program

18:42:51 mircea_popescu: ./db.cpp- fMinimizeToTray = false;

18:42:52 mircea_popescu: logic.

18:44:58 thestringpuller: looks like irdial would rather post to medium than qntra: https://medium.com/@beautyon_/bitcoin-is-not-democratic-81f87158250a#.ybi7j38cg

18:47:34 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell beautyon what do you like about the vc wordpress anyway ?

18:47:35 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:51:28 mircea_popescu: BN_rshift segfaults on 64-bit if 2^shift is greater than the number if built on ubuntu 9.04 or 9.10, probably depends on version of openssl

18:51:38 mircea_popescu: hey, is this a documented openssl hole ? seems it could be useful.

19:01:23 mircea_popescu: ./crypter.cpp- // Note as well that at no point in this program is any attempt made to prevent stealing of keys by reading the memory of the running process. << this is oddly the right choice.

19:17:25 mod6: had a nice big breakfast for lunch.

19:17:45 mod6: and a pretty lengthy walk. so nb.

19:20:52 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hey, is this a documented openssl hole ? seems it could be useful. << found this, seems like the opposite tho: http://marc.info/?l=openssl-dev&m=122520520421616

19:23:16 BingoBoingo: thank you http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379572

19:23:16 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 12:38:53; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379483 << this reminds me of that "i'll be sober in the morning - you'll still be ugly" line.

19:26:24 mircea_popescu: mod6 aha of histoprical interest.

19:28:00 thestringpuller: it's funny trying to see evoorhees play politician

19:28:21 thestringpuller: "guise guise guise. can't we just all get along. plz? we shouldn't be having civil wars guise."

19:28:30 thestringpuller: reminds me of a young lincoln

19:30:34 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379548 << only the absence of things

19:30:34 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 10:26:39; punkman: BingoBoingo: anything interesting in the jtoomim logz?

19:31:23 mircea_popescu: "<amount> is a real and is rounded to the nearest 0.00000001\n"

19:31:24 mircea_popescu: g

19:31:26 mircea_popescu: good god.

19:39:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84700 @ 0.00056685 = 48.0122 BTC [-] {3}

19:41:44 BingoBoingo: It's possible Magnus Carlsen makes the switch to the hybrid sport http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379926

19:41:44 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 17:47:49; asciilifeform: yes, there are folks who are serious chessboxers. but for some reason i've never heard of such a fella winning a world chess OR boxing title.

19:44:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379925 << actually the concept can be introduced much neater. there exist two sorts of men in this world, and they are distinguished readily when an alluring woman makes an interesting proposal. some can't, and some "let's go". the principle (in reverse), is illustrated in http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-romanian-language-for-other-people/#selection-41.0-45.1

19:44:01 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 17:47:17; asciilifeform: whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing.

19:44:02 assbot: The Romanian language for other people. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1lzWJ9f )

19:44:26 *: mircea_popescu has found himself, iwthout interruption, in this position for as long as he can remember, which'd be a good three decades by now.

19:44:39 mircea_popescu: it has exactly 0 to do with money, because schoolchildren have no money. it's a thing.

19:44:49 mircea_popescu: some kids gotta ask their parents, some don't.

19:45:31 mircea_popescu: this is, contrary to what everyone'd like to think, strictly unrelated to the parents.

19:46:04 mircea_popescu: so... you want to know why i'm trampling all over this grep dump rioght now ? it... it fucking winked!

19:49:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when i was a small boy, my elder brother taught me a lesson once:

19:49:57 asciilifeform: he said 'i will give you a gift! a real computer!'

19:50:10 asciilifeform: i say 'no way.' next day...

19:50:13 asciilifeform: he hands me a matchbox.

19:50:20 asciilifeform: when i push it out, nothing in it

19:50:23 asciilifeform: he: 'flip it over'

19:50:46 asciilifeform: when you push it, the word правильно (CORRECT)

19:51:13 asciilifeform: it worked !1111111

19:51:24 mircea_popescu: sure. so what's the problem with that ?

19:51:28 asciilifeform: none.

19:51:33 asciilifeform: it worked great.

19:51:45 asciilifeform: and reading mircea_popescu on certain subjects is rather reminiscent of this 'computer'

19:52:00 asciilifeform: he could give a good gift to folks, matchbox that when pushed tells you:

19:52:17 asciilifeform: 'you aren't virile enough! go feed yourself to pigz!111'

19:52:28 mircea_popescu: what else do you expect is there.

19:52:34 mircea_popescu: the reverse ?

19:52:54 asciilifeform: back when the english folks were literate, they had a name for this,

19:52:56 asciilifeform: 'dismal science'

19:53:33 mircea_popescu: you know a) the intention was to contrast it with GAY science

19:53:39 asciilifeform: there is nothing wrong with this, once one adjusts one's expectations.

19:53:43 mircea_popescu: and b) it was used for economics not metaphysics.

19:53:51 asciilifeform: no parachute, just a helpful fella telling you how many metres until your splat.

19:56:00 asciilifeform: fwiw, unlike some folks, i appreciate this gift. sorta like when doctor tells 'you have six months'. would you rather be surprised ?

19:56:42 asciilifeform: it beats ambling about like redditard, smashing into every possible wall, and never knowing why.

19:56:58 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I know it's l0l cuz I spend my life making robots to do my slave labor for me. I feel bad for the robots tho. I dunno man. Working in web dev, the developers are insane. It's like everyone wants to use some new unproven technology Y before fixing technology X first that it's built upon.

19:57:42 thestringpuller: Perhaps this is from consumer has come to expect mentality of everything being "flashy and pretty" but it makes me cringe cause you never have truly correct way of doing things. Just correct way of doing broken thing.

19:57:52 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: nobody gets paid to fix foundations.

19:58:02 asciilifeform: it is bad business sense.

19:58:13 asciilifeform: (in that most of the reward will be reaped by others, who paid nothing)

19:58:15 mircea_popescu: only in some definitions of pay and business.

19:58:25 thestringpuller: So how is derp supposed to even begin to learn correctness, if he can't understand what a correct foundation is.

19:58:51 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ideally he learned it in kindergarten when he added 2+2. correctly.

19:58:56 asciilifeform: if this was not so, there is no cure.

19:59:01 mircea_popescu: wait.

19:59:04 mircea_popescu: did you just...matchbox ?!

19:59:09 asciilifeform: yes

19:59:12 mircea_popescu: lol

19:59:28 thestringpuller: ;;ud matchbox

19:59:29 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Matchbox | Matchbox. A three-some in the back of a car. Guy 1: Dude I hooked up with Sarah and Kourtney in the back of my car lastnight! Guy 2: DUDE YOU JUST HAD A ...

19:59:43 asciilifeform: neither of us 'asked parents', played with matches, yes

20:00:01 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: ideally he learned it in kindergarten

20:00:14 thestringpuller: ^-well in this context you can learn correct foundation

20:00:21 thestringpuller: but what if foundation is broken on layers above

20:00:29 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there was an episode at c3 involving a box of matches, prolly what mircea_popescu was remembering.

20:00:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i meant just above.

20:00:42 asciilifeform: ah

20:00:50 asciilifeform: l0lz

20:01:42 thestringpuller: I guess answer to my own question, "WoT provides practical solution". If derp wants to learn, learn from trusted teacher in WoT.

20:01:54 thestringpuller: Rinse repeat.

20:02:06 asciilifeform: there was never any other way to learn from other people.

20:02:20 thestringpuller: Not with the bastardization of education being dumbed down for the so-called masses.

20:02:53 thestringpuller: In fact when I was thinking of going into education one of the courses I took harped on the fact that the best mode of teaching is pairing a real expert with student apprenticeship style.

20:02:56 asciilifeform: i've never known any thinking folk who actually relied on 'public education' for any useful thing they knew.

20:02:59 thestringpuller: But this isn't feasible economically.

20:04:13 mircea_popescu: ./serialize.h:// There's a clever template way to make arrays serialize normally, but MSVC6 doesn't support it

20:04:14 mircea_popescu: herp.

20:04:23 mircea_popescu: msvc shouldn't even be fucking supported in the first place.

20:04:32 asciilifeform: i think mircea_popescu is really enjoying this, somehow

20:04:41 mircea_popescu: of course.

20:04:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever read the thing before ?

20:05:06 thestringpuller: I learned to code on MSVC lol. QBasic -> MSVC_6 -> Linux

20:05:10 mircea_popescu: not in a systematic manner.

20:05:18 thestringpuller: and I thought Linux was ideal, but it turns out even that is bastardized.

20:05:19 mircea_popescu: i'm not reading now either, just had some summaries made by a rule

20:05:27 mircea_popescu: as opposed to the usual manner (human-directed)

20:05:43 asciilifeform: lemme guess, grepped for comments, and for 0-9

20:08:35 asciilifeform: woah

20:08:38 asciilifeform: REORG.

20:09:54 asciilifeform: has anybody been graphing ph0rklets ?

20:10:35 asciilifeform: massive shitflood of doublespends

20:11:14 asciilifeform: and, interestingly, it is very easy to distinguish the tx spamola with naked eye

20:11:39 asciilifeform: (moves very fresh coin back'n'forth)

20:14:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-sad-state-of-bitcoin-code/

20:15:33 assbot: The sad state of Bitcoin code on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu.

20:15:33 mircea_popescu: and yes it is obvious.

20:20:44 mircea_popescu: but yeah, re conference matchbox vs правильно matchbox, it is apparent that the matchsticks are more interesting than the box alone.

20:24:53 jurov: http://blog.robertelder.org/7-weird-old-things-about-the-c-preprocessor/ << to spill some more C bile

20:24:54 assbot: 7 Scandalous Weird Old Things About The C Preprocessor ... ( http://bit.ly/1OA8lDy )

20:27:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379521 << doh.

20:27:33 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 09:34:54; BingoBoingo: But basically this Hearnia is painting Janssens and some Obeast named "Marshall Long" as the reasons for the adverserial nature of ClassicCoin. Framing of course because it's what good instruments do so he can try to relevant himself again in six months

20:28:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379535 << i don't think bmi is intended to cover that case.

20:28:39 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 10:04:15; copypaste: i have a high BMI, but only because my spine collapsed due to my condition which takes many inches off my height. but even then BMI is only 31.

20:30:07 mircea_popescu: notably, at-birth ideal bmi is 3?0.5^2=12.

20:30:43 deedbot-: [fraudsters] The sad state of Bitcoin code - http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-sad-state-of-bitcoin-code/

20:31:00 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) July 2016 to drop under 20 USD before June - http://bitbet.us/bet/1239/light-sweet-crude-oil-wti-july-2016-to/#b10

20:33:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379550 << iirc she was pretty hot, back in the 90s or w/e.

20:33:33 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 10:47:32; assbot: Sunny Leone wows web over grilling about porn past - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1QnTuhQ )

20:36:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29277 @ 0.00056271 = 16.4745 BTC [-] {3}

20:36:06 asciilifeform: jurov: mega-link

20:36:44 asciilifeform: mainly for http://recc.robertelder.org

20:36:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OA9D1j )

20:37:04 asciilifeform: http://recc.robertelder.org/op-cpu.txt << he has a full toolchain, incl. c compiler, and several emulators for it

20:37:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OA9GKA )

20:37:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72799 @ 0.00055995 = 40.7638 BTC [-] {4}

20:37:12 asciilifeform: every once in a while, i run into somebody like this

20:37:25 asciilifeform: who understands the von neumann shitstack VERY WELL

20:37:48 asciilifeform: so well that their trying to somehow reboot it, rather than burning it to the ground, begins to beggar the imagination

20:38:38 asciilifeform: 'It is called the 'One-Page CPU' because you can fit the specification on an 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper without margins using 8 point Consolas font, and still have lots of room to spare. It is intended to be an easy to emulate compile target that supports context switching and interrupts.'

20:38:57 mircea_popescu: http://blog.robertelder.org/7-weird-old-things-about-the-c-preprocessor/ << all the items read to me like stuff typical of what happens with ad-hoc development by "tech savvy" people.

20:38:57 assbot: 7 Scandalous Weird Old Things About The C Preprocessor ... ( http://bit.ly/1OA8lDy )

20:39:21 asciilifeform: i suspect that ~emergence~ is a difficult concept for people. e.g., the fact that the digits of 'pi' are not in any sense 'random'

20:39:39 asciilifeform: or that the sea of shit in which we are now drowning was implicit in 1940s model of computer, and is no accident

20:39:53 mircea_popescu: i don't think most paradigms... to call personal ideologies thusly, do not allow for emergence specifically

20:40:00 mircea_popescu: to assuage the fear of death issue.

20:41:40 asciilifeform: incidentally, 'mips' cpu fits on one page: it was printed in the inner cover of the book my brother went to school with, and likewise inside same book, edition of decade later, and is in every other systems arch. book on the planet, also inside front cover.

20:41:48 asciilifeform: so there is nothing new there.

20:42:31 asciilifeform: reducing the cpu instruction set is sorta like lancing one particular bubonic boil on the body of a plague victim.

20:43:27 mircea_popescu: 5) Function Macros And Recursion <<< "What ended up being the bug in my preprocessor for this test case was in evaluating the argument prescanned tokens that were passed to a function macro invocation. If the function macro being invoked contained a token with the same identifier as the function macro being invoked, but didn't actually call that function macro, it would incorrectly disable this token. This bug combine

20:43:28 mircea_popescu: d with another bug where tokens were copied by reference would mean that disabling one token could disable it in other places, so the outer valid macro invocation's token would be disabled and never able to expand again. The bug was around step (34)."

20:43:34 mircea_popescu: jesus shit this shouldn't exist.

20:44:03 asciilifeform: it is all-pervasive.

20:44:24 asciilifeform: there is no place in computingdom where one does not find it after just a light scratch.

20:44:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu - http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-sad-state-of-bitcoin-code/#comment-116293

20:44:35 assbot: The sad state of Bitcoin code on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OAauPu )

20:45:35 mircea_popescu: aha. becqause for thugs not for cunts.

20:46:03 asciilifeform: how does that make the difference ?

20:46:29 mircea_popescu: !s "whenever man sits down to do anything"

20:46:30 assbot: 1 results for '"whenever man sits down to do anything"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22whenever+man+sits+down+to+do+anything%22

20:46:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm not entirely sure.

20:47:20 asciilifeform: i was somehow under the idea that the romans lounged around in their communal shitters, both sexes, for hours at a stretch, for no particularly good reason, just chit-chat

20:47:26 asciilifeform: but not sure how i came upon this.

20:47:45 mircea_popescu: incidentally, and perhaps relatedly, for a long time the concept of toilet consisted of a ditch api, upon which you could implement your arbitrary toilet at any point through placing a wooden beam\

20:47:58 mircea_popescu: that was the bath not the shitter.

20:48:18 mircea_popescu: the idea that toilet belongs by the pool is about as alien to the roman as the idea that toilet belongs by kitchen sink is to you.

20:48:33 asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise

20:48:46 asciilifeform: cloaka maxima was open air, etc.

20:49:28 asciilifeform: sealed pipes from arse into the sea are a very modern (and shaky) abstraction.

20:57:59 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell shinohai I am disappoint (sarcasm) https://archive.is/TYwxs

20:58:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPxQct )

20:58:00 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:58:17 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> sealed pipes from arse into the sea are a very modern (and shaky) abstraction. << Not sealed the whole way, settling ponds etc

21:00:07 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But there are definitely open shit pipes headed to the sea. Mississippi river is prime example.

21:00:11 BingoBoingo: "Chun has made a concrete hard fork proposal since ? though the details of this proposal are not yet clear."

21:01:10 mircea_popescu: lol

21:01:10 trinque: straight into the shitpipe with that

21:01:13 mircea_popescu: concrete means things nao

21:02:19 shinohai: Hey BingoBoingo I emailed them twice, no one ever responded.

21:02:28 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Hence the sarcasm

21:02:55 mircea_popescu: does that link load anything for anyone ?

21:03:08 BingoBoingo: Not yet, so https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/f-pool-chinese-pools-will-stick-with-bitcoin-core-1453395328

21:03:09 assbot: F2Pool: Chinese Pools Will Stick with Bitcoin Core | Bitcoin Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1OAcHui )

21:03:24 mircea_popescu: heh.

21:03:32 shinohai: I figured they weren't gonna say much until an "official announcement" despite Garzik trying to fly over and garner Classic support.

21:03:58 mircea_popescu: heh.

21:04:10 mircea_popescu: buncha inconsequential derps already.

21:06:19 shinohai: "I admire Dr. Pieter Wuille’s brilliant hack to deploy it as a soft fork. But despite being brilliant, the soft fork Segregated Witness is still a hack. A hack is dirty. Such a technology would be better implemented as hard fork.”

21:07:04 mircea_popescu: or as a bullet between the eyes. either way.

21:13:16 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: remember when Garzik was all "Lets build a decentralized exchange for ASICMINER"

21:13:21 thestringpuller: i need to find that article you wrote

21:16:53 BingoBoingo: NINE TIMES A LOL: "We don't matter. What matters is begging the cartel of miners to adopt a change the community overwhelmingly wants." https://archive.is/cGTNK

21:16:54 assbot: thouliha comments on Without official statement from miners and others, one should treat all reports of Classic losing support as subterfuge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPAi2z )

21:16:58 BingoBoingo: This is becoming meme

21:17:23 BingoBoingo: They can't even beg for bits-coin anymore so they gotta beg for a bits-coin they might eventually have

21:18:06 mircea_popescu: lol

21:18:23 mircea_popescu: i gotta say the lulz delivery is satisfactory.

21:19:16 BingoBoingo: Shit's popping up everywhere now. USG phillipino delivery for ClassicCoin must have finally arrived a week late

21:33:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125300 @ 0.00055869 = 70.0039 BTC [-] {2}

21:33:39 mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379586 << so i had the entire tree (all current patches in http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches) pressed out through alf's latest two. then i made the changes.

21:33:39 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 12:53:33; mircea_popescu: what init.cpp are you working on as an a mod6 ?

21:33:40 assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPCHKN )

21:34:15 mod6: so this guy: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches/asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring.vpatch

21:34:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPCLdg )

21:34:22 mod6: has the following:

21:34:27 mod6: diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp

21:34:27 mod6: --- a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp ff7009f672bf400a42d1d7afb6e58aaf1c29d9c219fad51c5f17000243a485e92bbb250d3f4bbec3f0717d00fad620c294d537832671f20c0979fb3f1383779b

21:34:30 mod6: +++ b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp 29fbb8792c3462ced61b4a0284360122f72c4fef7fb5fb84e5399967ab6474cd83ccf3a60eb3c425e183b1b95fb9ca71fc23bb791316d762034559df293f8bb0

21:34:33 mod6: and mine:

21:34:51 mod6: diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp

21:34:51 mod6: --- a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp 29fbb8792c3462ced61b4a0284360122f72c4fef7fb5fb84e5399967ab6474cd83ccf3a60eb3c425e183b1b95fb9ca71fc23bb791316d762034559df293f8bb0

21:34:54 mod6: +++ b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp cbfb2d8c9a5b1d1c16a66291bcb1f9c7e185b02c7a07f023e1256ce52531f4fc6145fdcdb334e96caa5d31e8ce7aa6fa7aa24e59abd3e8899b17afa2054bc7cd

21:34:57 mod6: so that should have been ok.

21:35:29 mod6: not sure what happened there. maybe your local branch doesn't have alf's latest 2?

21:36:39 mod6: anyway, jsut checking because I got asked about this separately.

21:36:56 thestringpuller: ERROR: AcceptBlock() : out of disk space

21:36:57 thestringpuller: ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED

21:37:03 thestringpuller: ^-- then cleanly shuts down

21:37:21 thestringpuller: TRB gives me hope

21:37:46 punkman: that's not what it gives

21:37:57 mircea_popescu: mod6 ah makes sense, i was working off the prev release, which is actually incorrect.

21:38:10 mircea_popescu: gg.

21:38:55 mod6: ah, ok c-ya

21:38:56 mod6: thx

21:39:22 mod6: <+punkman> that's not what it gives << eh?

21:41:14 punkman: "99% crapolade by weight" does not give hope. The work of the foundation is of course commendable and there is hope there.

21:41:30 mod6: oooh

21:41:31 mod6: ok

21:41:35 punkman: thestringpuller: I guess answer to my own question, "WoT provides practical solution". If derp wants to learn, learn from trusted teacher in WoT. << /me is waiting for Ada master in need of apprentice

21:41:39 mod6: thought you were talkin about those vpatches

21:42:37 thestringpuller: punkman: i'll rephrase "The Foundation gives me hope" :P

21:43:57 mircea_popescu: well... it's what, 650kb, so then the idea is that it should be condensable in 10kb or so ?

21:44:05 mircea_popescu: epic, ascii will get his book in standard newspaper format.

21:44:17 BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/421oar/the_ever_humble_roger_ver_submits_link_to_twitter/

21:44:18 assbot: The ever humble Roger Ver, submits link to twitter account of Roger Ver, to tweet of Roger Ver, with twitter profile picture of Roger Ver, quoting Roger Ver, on forum controlled by Roger Ver. : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPEm31 )

21:47:58 shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/421oar/the_ever_humble_roger_ver_submits_link_to_twitter/cz70fh8 <<< ROFL

21:47:59 assbot: shrinknut comments on The ever humble Roger Ver, submits link to twitter account of Roger Ver, to tweet of Roger Ver, with twitter profile picture of Roger Ver, quoting Roger Ver, on forum controlled by Roger Ver. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VbZKbQ )

21:53:29 mircea_popescu: "Yves here. Get a cup of coffee. This is a deep dive into how Bitcoin works from a payment systems perspective, and why the failure of promoters and journalists to look at it in those terms has led them to greatly overestimate its significance." << "come hear my very novel take on why bitcoin is not disruptive because it doesn't do the buzzword i think i understand and for this reason matters more than everything else!"

21:54:40 mircea_popescu: da fuck is "nakedcapitalism" anyway. the pompousness of these two-guys-and-their-hopes, 200 bucks in the bank ventures is nothing short of exactly what you'd expect.

21:55:37 mircea_popescu: ?Bitcoin the currency is going nowhere. There is nothing behind it, and if it was big the governments would stop it,? said Dimon. <<< :))

21:56:07 mircea_popescu: check it out alfie, your clone with less technical skills is running the usg's largest bank-department.

21:57:27 mircea_popescu: http://codesuppository.blogspot.com.ar/2016/01/the-lightning-network-reality-check.html << sadly on shitspot. not so terrible otherwise.

21:57:28 assbot: John Ratcliff's Code Suppository: The Lightning Network Reality Check ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vc1G4b )

21:57:51 mod6: ;;tslb

21:57:57 danielpbarron: so am I the only one that hates 'tab' and prefers spaces when coding?

21:57:58 gribble: Time since last block: 21 minutes and 4 seconds

21:58:11 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron why would you prefer spaces ?

21:58:23 danielpbarron: because then the code will always look the same no matter who views it

21:58:34 mircea_popescu: why is that a good thing ?

21:59:30 mircea_popescu: how the code LOOKS and what the code SAYS are drastically different matters. the code should say the same to everyone, but looks are unimportant. this is the same age old fundamental distinction between alphabet and literacy and symbolism and "creativity".

22:02:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62900 @ 0.00055843 = 35.1252 BTC [-] {4}

22:03:17 mircea_popescu: the problem is that when you go from |\techo\s"hello\sworld!";| to |\s\s\s\secho\s"hello\sworld!";| you really went from

22:03:17 mircea_popescu: |(line_indenter)echo(token_separator)"hello(token_separator)world!";| to |(token_separator)(token_separator)(token_separator)(token_separator)echo(token_separator)"hello(token_separator)world!";|

22:03:40 mircea_popescu: this is a significant loss to everyone doing things that depend on the difference between one item and the other.

22:03:50 danielpbarron: I also prefer the '{' on a newline vs on same line as function name. But I haven't done nearly as much coding as those of you who hate these conventions so what do I know

22:04:20 mircea_popescu: the reason the newline { is hated is because it eats a line. people generally want to cram stuff in their screens.

22:04:34 danielpbarron: so why not put the whole proggy on one line

22:04:56 danielpbarron: back when i wrote my own html generator I had it spit everything out as one line

22:05:01 mircea_popescu: note that there's a great tendency to condense lines by "meaning". which is what alf's proposal to stick a && in that double if clause comes to.

22:05:17 adlai: you want to optimize screenful-legibility... this is a convex space, but far from linear

22:05:20 mircea_popescu: "i want every one thing to be in a single place" is a deep driver of meta-programming.

22:05:43 danielpbarron: seems to me it's easier to read when you can see the '{' and '}' line up

22:05:47 adlai: s/-/X/ ie, product

22:06:22 adlai: mircea_popescu: is MPEx still looking for btc/fiat options market makers?

22:06:46 mircea_popescu: maybe.

22:06:51 adlai: if so, where's the price signal?

22:06:57 mircea_popescu: how would i know ?

22:07:11 mircea_popescu: if someone that's respectable, competent and so on wants to do it i might entertain it.

22:07:22 adlai: ok. is there another conf anytime soon?

22:07:33 mircea_popescu: well, apparently not this year. maybe next.

22:07:55 adlai: ok. i know somebody respectable, competent, and so on, and he isn't willing to give money to people he hasn't met in person.

22:08:31 mircea_popescu: is whatever "he" that is in my wot ?

22:08:49 adlai: you're not in his.

22:08:56 mircea_popescu: mno, this is not how it works.

22:09:02 mircea_popescu: he goes to six months log reading etc.

22:09:33 adlai: or he finds somebody who's done it, because ain't nobody got time for this. s/nobody/$0 that Matters/

22:09:43 mircea_popescu: aaaand to make the matter quite plain, i've had it just about up to here witgh idiot jews who think they're exceptional. they aren't, the accomodation is 0, they;d better be fucking humble as if they're begging to avoid gang ass rape.

22:09:47 mircea_popescu: mostly because they are.

22:09:55 mircea_popescu: ok, this conversation is over.

22:10:04 *: adlai enjoyed it, thank you for your time.

22:10:05 mircea_popescu: i will, for the record, NEVER entertain anyone you propose for anything.

22:10:25 adlai: lol kay

22:11:11 *: adlai wonders whether he should re-rate mircea_popescu with the thing about "text, signed or otherwise"

22:11:36 mircea_popescu: fancy what we're discussing in 2016, "oh hey, 2012 never happened, let's pretend that we matter and there's no deathstar in orbit". derp.

22:12:08 *: adlai doesn't recall saying that he himself, that is, adlai_chandrasekhar, wants to meet mircea_popescu or market make options

22:12:21 adlai: people do sometimes meet people outside of the internet!

22:14:08 mircea_popescu: there's exactly zero leeway. noobs are noobs, and start at the noob place. whatever they may think of themselves. and the more they delay, the less they'll get for it. again irrespective of what they may think it's worth.

22:15:28 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380239 << THIS IS what my 'o' command was for!11111

22:15:28 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 21:34:22; mod6: has the following:

22:15:29 mircea_popescu: there's a very ample history of idiots thinking they may bypass this, starting with bitcoinica. i welcome more victims, gladly.

22:15:42 asciilifeform: mod6: does your vtron implement 'origin' ?

22:16:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380266 << yes! and you can almost ~define~ 'sane system' this way. with the caveat that it can't be a non-orthogonal fudge like a program consisting of one line 'start_bitcoind()' nor anything in that spirit. ORTHOGONAL operators.

22:16:42 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 21:43:57; mircea_popescu: well... it's what, 650kb, so then the idea is that it should be condensable in 10kb or so ?

22:17:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hm ?

22:17:38 asciilifeform: os+language such that a usable and correct bitcoin client is 10kB of src.

22:17:41 *: danielpbarron was a victim of bitcoinica :<

22:17:51 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: does your vtron implement 'origin' ? << no

22:18:07 asciilifeform: mod6: but now you perhaps see why i did ?

22:18:19 asciilifeform: it is to answer 'wtf did this come from' questions, as a class.

22:18:29 mircea_popescu: honestly, i have no complaint with the absence.

22:18:35 mod6: eh. kinda sorta, i gotta re-read that part when i get a chance. but i think that you think it's useful :]

22:18:43 mod6: i can see about adding it.

22:19:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah, that. myeah. that'd be nice.

22:19:30 mircea_popescu: i think we might be a few iterations away from it yet tho

22:20:08 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380275 << i could try feigning stupidity and becoming sturmbannf?hrer of something, but i don't think it works like that - you can't turn into a hapsburg emperor by elongating your nose, last i heard

22:20:08 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 21:56:07; mircea_popescu: check it out alfie, your clone with less technical skills is running the usg's largest bank-department.

22:20:38 mircea_popescu: he's equally convinced that "if it exists, is cuz god willed it, and should it go away, it will be through god's will"

22:21:32 asciilifeform: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله

22:21:34 asciilifeform: (tm) (r)

22:22:07 mircea_popescu: yeh but i don't think that group of nuts would like you, or you them. meanwhile the usgod crowd... prolly. maybe. who knows.

22:22:52 asciilifeform: actually very similar

22:23:32 asciilifeform: really not all that different in outlook, behaviour, thought pattern.

22:25:35 mircea_popescu: well, it is pretty obnoxiously identical to my view, yeah.

22:25:42 mircea_popescu: !up jixei_

22:27:14 shinohai: !rate Cristina -1 Una gran pérdida de tiempo. Disfrute su bolsillas de mierdas.

22:27:14 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/98b3014b9613d9dd

22:27:21 mircea_popescu: o.O

22:27:42 mircea_popescu: you're not angry at the chick for not putting out are you ?

22:28:36 mod6: "Enjoy your shit bags." is how google just translated it. HAHA

22:29:24 shinohai: She is trying to sell some huge bag of some shitcoin, after I told her politely 3 times I'm not interested in being liberated of my paltry BTC earning funding scams.

22:30:23 mircea_popescu: ahaha

22:30:30 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/6f3872d78919c475735a63cefd4055f2/tumblr_o08vs45yd51u9fdrvo1_1280.jpg

22:30:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Prv5mt )

22:30:35 shinohai: !v assbot:shinohai.rate.Cristina.-1:40c3c4340ad9d24dce23bbbdda229940e2fc9afe2e5b305e71cee5823a45b431

22:30:35 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for Cristina from 1 to -1 with note: Una gran pérdida de tiempo. Disfrute su bolsillas de mierdas.

22:30:56 *: adlai sees nothing wrong with selling properly-labelled shitbags

22:31:23 adlai: "caution: may contain peanuts, gluten, and glucose" is much better than "100% asbestos-phree!!!!'

22:32:37 adlai: shinohai: care to say which and how much? this is financial data relevant to shitcoin-asseteers

22:34:02 shinohai: I'll have her send you an email.

22:34:06 shinohai: kek

22:34:57 adlai: mno

22:35:38 *: adlai gets enough altcoin spam by merely logging into reddit

22:36:00 BingoBoingo: <shinohai> She is trying to sell some huge bag of some shitcoin, after I told her politely 3 times I'm not interested in being liberated of my paltry BTC earning funding scams. << Which shitcoin?

22:37:19 BingoBoingo: It's useful to know which shitcoin it was this round and the record a running tab of what i++ next shitcoins are

22:37:42 adlai: asciilifeform: care to translate http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380342 better than google can?

22:37:42 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:21:32; asciilifeform: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله

22:48:09 BingoBoingo: Why not google that string to see if there are already human translations. Or just swim across the Micheal Jordan river and ask someone a little browner than yourself?

22:48:28 BingoBoingo: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 << 7!

22:48:29 assbot: Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeJp6j )

22:49:32 *: adlai dons gascuba mask and swims to the "don't be evil" bank

22:50:35 *: adlai still doesn't understand why asciilifeform quoted that

22:51:27 BingoBoingo: Maybe your ergot friend can reveal the truth in a spiritual experience?

22:51:49 asciilifeform: adlai: 'will of allah' thread

22:51:50 adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JYJhWIwGUw

22:51:51 assbot: The Departed - Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yourself. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPNQLs )

22:52:10 adlai: !s will of allah

22:52:11 assbot: 4 results for 'will of allah' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=will+of+allah

22:53:08 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-11-2014#922121 aka "mutation testing"?

22:53:08 assbot: Logged on 14-11-2014 21:29:47; asciilifeform: the idea in the article can (and has) been rephrased like this. if you remove all the 'suggestively-named strings' like 'understand' - and replace with 'gensyms' - e.g., 100324 - does the resulting machine still do or even appear to do anything of interest?

22:53:45 asciilifeform: adlai: that was from the thread concerning famous article 'artificial intelligence and natural stupidity'

22:55:23 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pnVFLkUjM

22:55:24 assbot: Obama: 'We're building Iron Man' - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrxWvP )

22:55:36 adlai: https://www.inf.ed.ac.uk/teaching/courses/irm/mcdermott.pdf aka https://archive.is/4rhpa

22:55:38 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrxYng )

22:55:38 assbot: MIND ~ ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrxYni )

22:56:00 BingoBoingo: From the mines, Micheal Jordan edition: "MJ used to tell Johnny that ?Tiger Woods is an idiot. I tried to help him, but the kid?s gonna get caught.? (we all know how that turned out). In order for a girl to get to MJ, she needed to go through 4 undercover former narcotics detectives just to speak to Michael. She had to be approved by all 4 to make sure she wasn?t gonna say a damn word about MJ to anyone. So there?s MJ, n

22:56:00 BingoBoingo: ot the greatest character guy, but he sure was pretty smart."

22:56:02 adlai: (latter is google cache's htmlized pdf)

22:58:10 *: adlai would at least prefer a "tries hard but mostly fails", but will settle for "either retarted or usg" because it's 'nearly a laugh'

23:04:03 punkman: https://medium.com/@BitFuryGroup/consensus-round-table-870c83c0c8bc

23:04:04 assbot: Consensus Round Table — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1PryMIV )

23:06:17 shinohai: "the Bock Size Increase"

23:06:49 asciilifeform: brock size.

23:06:58 punkman: large bocks are a good thing

23:09:25 BingoBoingo: Large brocks are bad for the children

23:09:37 shinohai: kazing

23:18:21 adlai: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/0AKY6BV.txt

23:18:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZPR6Xd )

23:18:24 deedbot-: accepted: 1

23:23:04 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380386 << da fuck does that even mean

23:23:04 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:55:24; assbot: Obama: 'We're building Iron Man' - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrxWvP )

23:24:48 mircea_popescu: be that as it may, in further other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/c501e62db03341caddc5ee0fec0c59e9/tumblr_o08sgzzApW1u9fdrvo1_1280.jpg

23:24:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrCpP4 )

23:26:05 mircea_popescu: WHEN: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 9:00 am-5:00 pm << lol two day lead-in ? desperation is dripping off.

23:26:12 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/21/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-ii/

23:26:46 mircea_popescu: to quote, "name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit."

23:33:47 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380409 << dun wanna make pete_dushenski cry, but this is a ~terrible~ summary, if i were whacked over the head and forgot about my patches, and had to re-learn them from that article, i'd have nfi what they were and why.

23:33:47 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 23:26:12; deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/21/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-ii/

23:35:03 asciilifeform: (no discussion of how and why we ended up with static build, omitting the whole pogo thing, astonishingly foggy description of what orphans/bastards were and WHY they had to go, i could go on, and on)

23:35:57 mircea_popescu: not very good homework huh.

23:36:20 asciilifeform: dreadful.

23:36:24 asciilifeform: sadly i can find no other word.

23:39:52 asciilifeform: 'Unsigned integers differ from signed integers in that the latter include both positive and negative integers whereas the former include only positive integers.' << this is wrong in at least two places

23:43:23 mircea_popescu: myeah.

23:43:30 mircea_popescu: the sign bit is the difference.

23:44:19 mircea_popescu: !up circ-user-AYc7q

23:48:32 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Any news on the Blizard front?

23:49:20 mircea_popescu: moar other news http://41.media.tumblr.com/2b35f310bd18a5305e82d08b79f9b571/tumblr_n2qgo9JKWD1qczywmo1_1280.jpg

23:49:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrFmiy )

23:55:19 mircea_popescu: Dec 22 17:01:42 <mircea_popescu> in other news, "blocks" : 182731, << same system is now "blocks" : 347914.

23:55:46 mircea_popescu: so i'm guessing... another 2-3 weeks for full sync, making a trb full sync take just about two months on a reasonable box.

23:55:56 mircea_popescu: if only we had larger blocks.

23:56:17 mircea_popescu: (actually, if only we had correctly implemented, ie multithreaded and non-io-idiotic, block verifier)