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Transcript for 21-03-2014, 3189 lines:

00:26:46 Aquent: so can I buy google shares or other publicly traded companies on mpex?

00:30:01 Mats_cd03: no

00:30:17 Aquent: oh

00:30:17 kakobrekla: only amazon

00:30:35 kakobrekla: err i ment myspace

00:30:40 Aquent: lol

00:30:50 Mats_cd03: try looking at the site instead of asking stupid questions

00:30:58 Aquent: I did

00:31:15 Aquent: didnt explain about what shares you can buy I think

00:31:34 kakobrekla: did ya see S.GOOG there?

00:32:21 Mats_cd03: its fairly clear, there is a contract for every enterprise

00:32:48 Aquent: ohh sorry I was looking at the faq

00:32:57 Aquent: so the shares on the home page are the only traded shares?

00:34:34 kakobrekla: yes

00:35:01 Mats_cd03: the heading says stocks followed by tables of data

00:35:06 Aquent: why not put on public companies like

00:35:12 Mats_cd03: exercise some brain power

00:35:18 Mats_cd03: ok i give up

00:35:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.0559999 = 0.392 BTC [-]

00:35:24 Aquent: lol

00:35:46 Aquent: dude its 12:40 pm here i got no brain left

00:36:06 Aquent: just wondering whats so good about mpex that anyone pays 30 btc for it

00:36:09 kakobrekla: you should get up later

00:36:38 Aquent: am*

00:36:44 Mats_cd03: you should be required to pay .01btc to talk in this channel

00:36:54 kakobrekla: per word

00:36:59 Mats_cd03: it would help in filtering dummies

00:37:41 kakobrekla: Aquent you can use coinbr instead

00:38:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 43 @ 0.0032999 = 0.1419 BTC [+]

01:08:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.59567897 = 11.9136 BTC [-] {9}

01:19:16 ThickAsThieves: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/03/20/a-crypto-sting-operation-to-find-crypto-currency/?mod=WSJBlog

01:19:17 ozbot: A Crypto-Sting Operation to Find Crypto-Currency - MoneyBeat - WSJ

01:19:43 Mats_cd03: is bitfinex a good exchange

01:20:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 289 @ 0.00596359 = 1.7235 BTC [-] {7}

01:23:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.00325 = 0.1105 BTC [-] {2}

01:23:24 ThickAsThieves: i dont think it has a good rep around here

01:24:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00323429 = 0.3202 BTC [-] {5}

01:27:35 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves, pretty sick! i like it

01:29:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00084498 = 25.5184 BTC [+] {2}

01:30:27 dignork: lol, "unspecified amounts of bitcoins are being moved, sometimes in fractions of a single bitcoin, into multiple accounts overseas". what do they smoke?

01:30:48 ThickAsThieves: was shaky on the rocky horror font, but it seems to work

01:31:13 ThickAsThieves: it's free thing with little planning, so not bad in that sense

01:31:26 ThickAsThieves: but the guys were happy with it too

01:31:44 ThickAsThieves: i'll connect you with music when it's ready too

01:32:28 nubbins`: i'm partial to that sort of font -- from the pink eye archives: http://imgur.com/Ompvb3G

01:32:36 LordPutin: who know what ilearned from thiswhole trendon shavers deposition is that youneed to have a good online username like "mymothersasshole" or something...."So you spoke with my mothers asshole on the 10th of Jan last year, is thatcorrect?"

01:32:42 nubbins`: awesome, i'd love to hear it

01:38:28 mike_c: lol. do you know mymothersasshole's real name?

01:41:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7814 @ 0.00084098 = 6.5714 BTC [-]

01:52:36 LordPutin: didn't ukyo from bitfunder already use thistypeof scam - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/20x0ww/mtgox_announces_they_actually_still_owned_200000/

01:52:57 Ukyo: heh.

01:53:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3283 @ 0.00083917 = 2.755 BTC [-]

02:11:29 ThickAsThieves: Ukyo how come you hng out still but have no updates :(

02:11:32 ThickAsThieves: hang*

02:13:51 LordPutin: to make it seem like he hasn't done a runner?

02:13:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.056999 = 0.114 BTC [+] {2}

02:15:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.056999 = 0.171 BTC [+] {2}

02:18:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00084638 = 14.5577 BTC [+]

02:22:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.057 = 0.171 BTC [+] {3}

02:25:01 Ukyo: Or perhaps there are no updates?

02:25:15 Ukyo: Kinda hard to give what doesnt exist.

02:31:17 mircea_popescu: "Whenever some new and insightful piece of #bitcoin writing appears, I now automatically look for connection to @Mircea_Popescu"

02:31:27 mircea_popescu: twitter love, reddit hate. it's like the interwebs autobalance.

02:32:26 Duffer1: odd that the one facilitating less dialogue shows more love

02:32:57 mircea_popescu: i suspect it's more to do with ownership structure.

02:33:25 mircea_popescu: one's a dinky disqus-equivalent owned by conde nast. the other's a facebook-wannabe still in the cool vc phase.

02:37:17 Duffer1: how are you Ukyo?

02:39:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00084734 = 5.7195 BTC [+]

02:41:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.057 = 0.171 BTC [+] {3}

02:42:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.093669 = 0.1873 BTC [+] {2}

02:43:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6617 @ 0.00084572 = 5.5961 BTC [-]

02:45:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0033 = 0.132 BTC [+]

02:51:53 mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, how was it

02:57:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22574 @ 0.00084347 = 19.0405 BTC [-] {2}

03:02:38 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves pretty incredible shit. so microsoft is playing nsa nao ?

03:02:55 mircea_popescu: no wonder the doj is claiming prism has full support from the usg-controlled corps a la google yahoo etc

03:03:38 mircea_popescu: whoa, gawker ? mp in gawker ? what has this world come to.

03:04:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.057 = 0.171 BTC [+]

03:05:00 mircea_popescu: did anyone have trouble loading fraudsters today ?

03:05:22 asciilifeform: dept of software.

03:05:38 asciilifeform: mp in washington post!

03:05:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.057 = 0.114 BTC [+]

03:06:17 asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/20/sec-gets-on-the-bitcoin-investigation-bandwagon

03:06:17 ozbot: SEC gets on the Bitcoin investigation bandwagon

03:07:27 mircea_popescu: well, i guess there's going to be a steady stream of journo people coming in here these days

03:07:31 mircea_popescu: be nice to the noobs.

03:15:45 ninjashogun: hi mircea_popescu

03:15:51 ninjashogun: just read this scrollback for a sec

03:15:55 chetty: "After giving her a verbal spanking, he did leave room for future cooperation:"

03:15:56 ninjashogun: hi again asciilifeform

03:16:06 ninjashogun: where it says on your link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/20/sec-gets-on-the-bitcoin-investigation-bandwagon/) :

03:16:22 ninjashogun: But then he said he wanted a bunch of impossible (at least in the near term) stuff before the two could talk frankly, including an SEC determination that it lacks jurisdiction over Bitcoin.

03:16:43 ninjashogun: is that a direct quote? Whose voice is this sentence in?

03:18:41 Duffer1: it's a summary of statements made in the email exchange between MP and the SEC

03:19:17 Duffer1: http://fraudsters.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/

03:19:17 ozbot: Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

03:19:55 Duffer1: mircea_popescu did anyone have trouble loading fraudsters today ? >> my cookie has disappeared is that what you're referring to?

03:21:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17613 @ 0.00084139 = 14.8194 BTC [-]

03:21:40 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 no, im referring to a bunch of news outlets linking it

03:21:50 mircea_popescu: trying to discern if any slashdot effect

03:21:56 Duffer1: Expires: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 3:49:14 PM

03:21:57 Duffer1: odd

03:21:58 ninjashogun: ok

03:21:59 mircea_popescu: since i missed the chance back when slashdot linked it

03:22:25 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, what do you think the end-game will be?

03:22:35 ninjashogun: will btc be "internet points" or will it be a currency?

03:22:42 ninjashogun: for the purposes of the SEC etc

03:24:34 Duffer1: derp i fixed it

03:25:37 mircea_popescu: Namworld so you're making exchanges for noobs nao?

03:25:43 Duffer1: it's already a currency ninja

03:26:11 mircea_popescu: g_forcewinds ello.

03:26:15 g_forcewinds: hi

03:26:20 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell yeye_ cheers.

03:26:20 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:26:31 g_forcewinds: haven't used freenode before so pardon any etiquette mistakes here please

03:26:36 mircea_popescu: g_forcewinds you'll be fine.

03:26:54 mircea_popescu: so one thing is that i didn't dispute the legality of the sec's request, i asked them to establish it.

03:27:06 g_forcewinds: hmm seems an issue of semantics

03:27:08 mircea_popescu: there's an important difference here, i am in no position to dispute anything yet.

03:27:20 mircea_popescu: well actually, it's a fundamental issue of law which somehow seems lost on the journalistic profession

03:27:35 mircea_popescu: some guy wanted me how do i know i didn't break any laws.

03:27:37 ninjashogun: g_forcewinds, not really. Like if you say, "Hi, could you tell me what I'm being arrested for" it's not the same as saying "I'm disputing this arrets, you're detaining me unlawfully!"

03:27:53 mircea_popescu: that's not how laws work. i don't declare that i broke no laws, and i don't contest the authority of some random person making demands.

03:28:14 mircea_popescu: it works the other way around : i don't argue the negative, they make the statements that establish the positive.

03:28:32 g_forcewinds: so how you would characterize your email exchange with the SEC?

03:28:47 mircea_popescu: the sec couldn't decide if it wants to be friends or it wants to be an authority.

03:28:56 mircea_popescu: i indicated to them that they have to make this choice, and how to go about being friends.

03:28:56 g_forcewinds: indeed

03:29:08 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't presume to tell them how to be authoritative, i imagine they have lawyers that can sort it out.

03:29:25 mircea_popescu: either way, i'm not denying or arguing or anything else. someone calls you on the phone, you ask "who is this"

03:29:34 g_forcewinds: but you did question their authority to ask for those documents etc and asked them to show what legal basis they h ad for doing so, yes?

03:30:02 mircea_popescu: that "and" doesn't work. i didn't question anything, i asked them the traditional quo warranto.

03:30:06 mircea_popescu: show your right.

03:30:09 Duffer1: http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-reasons-why-bitcoin-securities-cant-be-regulated-by-the-sec/

03:30:10 ozbot: The reasons why Bitcoin securities can’t be regulated by the SEC pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Po

03:31:06 mircea_popescu: that aside : what makes you judge we're talking about "A bunch of impossible" ?

03:31:45 g_forcewinds: Thanks for clarifying your perspective Mircea. I'll be sure to reach out if I you end up in a story again. What's the best way to get in touch? FYI I work at night

03:31:49 asciilifeform: anyone recall the u.s. supreme court case which proclaimed that barter in grain is taxable?

03:31:54 mircea_popescu: this is by far the best way

03:32:19 asciilifeform: these buggers truly imagine themselves masters of the universe

03:32:23 asciilifeform: not merely of dollar

03:32:28 asciilifeform: and have, since '30s

03:32:47 ninjashogun: good night guys

03:32:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a major difference there too. the grain case (and the oranges cove case which is used to teach kids about the sec) all discuss actual items of value.

03:32:54 g_forcewinds: my impossible i meant that it takes a long time for the SEC to make a determination like whether they are going to regulate. I could be wrong, but I think a public comment period is required

03:32:56 asciilifeform: or the u.s. proclamation of extraterritorial jurisdiction of any submarine not carrying a flag

03:33:00 mircea_popescu: there's a lot of difference between trading oranges and trading monopoly money.

03:33:03 asciilifeform: or of nuclear weapons

03:33:14 asciilifeform: (all in federal law, on the books, plain as daylight)

03:33:18 mircea_popescu: g_forcewinds well, yes, but they do have the help of the fed and gao already making similar determinations.

03:33:35 g_forcewinds: that doesnt speed up their own determination though

03:33:36 mircea_popescu: as far as i know this matter has been discussed in their comission already, and they're working towards a decision

03:33:49 mircea_popescu: well ok, but that'd have been a prime spot to crack the story you know ?

03:33:59 mircea_popescu: go hunt down the comissioners and ask them pointed q's about exactly this.

03:34:32 g_forcewinds: I'd love to chat further but at the moment I must run. I'm at work and have stories to write. Hope to chat again soon.

03:34:37 mircea_popescu: later!

03:34:41 asciilifeform: ianal. but it would surprise me greatly if the matter is settled in such a way as for usg to tell itself to pound sand

03:34:47 g_forcewinds: If I see any commissioners when Im up at 3am ill be sure to ask them ;-)

03:34:57 mircea_popescu: what time is it there now anyway

03:35:21 Duffer1: 11:30

03:35:29 Duffer1: pm, east coast

03:35:33 mircea_popescu: pa, lime midnight

03:35:35 mircea_popescu: yea ok

03:37:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, such things happen. contrary to what the general public perceives of the government, it does tell itself to go pack sand all the time.

03:37:44 mircea_popescu: perhaps not as often as is the case in romania, but definitely a lot more often than is the case in russia or w/e

03:37:46 mircea_popescu: china.

03:37:57 asciilifeform: sure - people do surrender occasionally. esp. if they aren't paid enough to give a damn.

03:38:48 mircea_popescu: nah, not at all what i mean.

03:45:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 196 @ 0.00325183 = 0.6374 BTC [-] {4}

03:52:02 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla seriously, "september 11 TYPE OF EVENTS" << yeah, it's a term of art :D

03:52:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you drew that shit ?!

03:56:00 mircea_popescu: LordPutin: what ilearned from thiswhole trendon shavers deposition is that youneed to have a good online username like "mymothersasshole" or something...."So you spoke with my mothers asshole on the 10th of Jan last year, is thatcorrect?" << lol

04:00:04 decimation: these journos will make for amusing reading on the log

04:01:04 mircea_popescu: it's really shocking to me that i have to explain the basics of law to people writing news o.O

04:01:20 decimation: perhaps you can steer one or two to the real lede here - the writ under which USG agencies operate, and the apparently unlimited self-extension of the same

04:01:57 mircea_popescu: more likely future, people will start being arrested by the cable company over there.

04:02:11 mircea_popescu: "hello sir, we're mailmen. please step out of the car"

04:02:36 decimation: "agencies will have to have a public comment period before they grant themselves extraconstitutional authority over a matter"

04:03:09 decimation: you didn't go to the hearing at 9am on Thursday? You could have had your say. That's democracy!

04:03:27 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo tried that one.

04:03:56 decimation: I predict that nothing will happen

04:04:04 mircea_popescu: hopefully.

04:04:10 mircea_popescu: else, he blogs from jail.

04:04:20 decimation: I don't think bitcoin rises high enough on the foreign policy hopper to pressure Romania

04:05:51 Duffer1: but terrsm and MONEY LAUNDERING OMG

04:05:53 mircea_popescu: romania ?

04:06:05 decimation: well, ultimately that's the outcome, right?

04:06:06 mircea_popescu: you mean the only country which has a military base which allows the us some sort of semblance of relevancy in the black sea ?

04:06:14 mircea_popescu: yeah, definitely, the us is pressuring romania.

04:06:18 decimation: exactly

04:06:20 mircea_popescu: with... you know... truckloads of cash.

04:06:29 decimation: so you are going to have State vs. Defense

04:07:28 decimation: early Moldbug is the best on this topic http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ca/2007/08/secret-of-anti-americanism.html

04:07:36 mircea_popescu: (incidentally... without mihail kogalniceanu the afghanistan retreat isn't even all that possible)

04:07:55 mircea_popescu: esp not with a rather hostile syria

04:08:30 mircea_popescu: http://adevarul.ro/locale/constanta/soldati-1_53112de7c7b855ff56c227aa/index.html

04:08:34 mircea_popescu: foir the forensically curious

04:08:53 decimation: There are all kinds of logisitical arrangements with "allies" of various kinds which are never mentioned in the US media

04:09:49 decimation: reading most US newspapers would lead one to think that the US military just shows up somewhere without any baggage train

04:10:10 mircea_popescu: yeah well.

04:12:55 decimation: asciilifeform I had a question about Cardano. I assume that measures have been taken to prevent loss of the private key in the case of the failure of a flash chip or bits thereof?

04:13:25 decimation: it would be sad to have some bitrot render it unusable (or in an uncertain state)

04:13:51 asciilifeform: decimation: cardano is not intended to house your only, 'master' key.

04:14:08 asciilifeform: i believe this was described in one of mp's articles.

04:14:51 asciilifeform: in the event of damage, or jettison (using 'zap') one is to retrieve a secreted, more senior key (optionally kept on a cardano, or in some other fashion) and sign message to the effect of 'this newly baked cardano key is my new pubkey'

04:15:04 asciilifeform: damn do i have to hire my own pr girl now?

04:15:13 mircea_popescu: well... hire.

04:15:20 mircea_popescu: capture a few.

04:15:25 asciilifeform: i spent most of the past half day answering questions that ought to be RTFMs.

04:15:43 mircea_popescu: dun hate the playa.

04:15:47 asciilifeform: lol

04:16:33 decimation: is there a preliminary block diagram available?

04:17:09 asciilifeform: decimation: all of the materials presently available to public are on mp's site (with the exception of several photos that live on mine.)

04:17:30 asciilifeform: plus some discussions held in this channel (log)

04:17:40 Duffer1: http://fraudsters.com/category/snsa/

04:17:41 ozbot: S.NSA pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

04:17:46 asciilifeform: Duffer1: thank you

04:17:52 mircea_popescu: probably that category holds 90%+ of the discussion.

04:17:59 mircea_popescu: actual block diagrams not released yet iirc ?

04:18:06 asciilifeform: at present, it should be more than enough for any prospective buyer to decide whether the product fits his needs

04:19:07 *: asciilifeform must be off to bed.

04:20:07 decimation: ah, that answers my question, it seems that there will be a single key storage EEprom

04:20:21 decimation: I apologize for the bother

04:20:50 mircea_popescu: dun worry.

04:21:33 Duffer1: imo asking questions is usually better than the alternative

04:23:10 mircea_popescu: anyway, decimation : there will be a single key storage eeprom, but the key itself is written quite redundantly on it,

04:23:37 mircea_popescu: and other features generally make it improbable a key will be lost. but this level of specific detail is to be you know, put up once the product actually goes for order

04:23:52 decimation: okay that was my question. I suspected as much, but I was thinking about possible scenarios today and it occured to me that such a precaution would be wise

04:23:58 mircea_popescu: yeah

04:24:15 mircea_popescu: there's a diff eeprom for the symetric key, these are physically separate for reasons etc

04:32:05 mircea_popescu: http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/20/sec-investigation-of-bitcoin-based-stock-sale/

04:32:06 ozbot: SEC investigation of Bitcoin-based stock sale could lead to broader regulation

04:32:42 mircea_popescu: engadget figures the way to do reporting is putting 6 links in two paragraphs, all leading to engadget.com

04:32:56 mircea_popescu: then one wonders why nobody heard of them in a while.

04:33:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 311 @ 0.0031659 = 0.9846 BTC [-] {5}

04:33:33 decimation: I always feel like I'm reading an advertisement when I visit engadget

04:35:11 steven-__: native advertising writing style

04:36:19 decimation: "Part of the trouble so far has been nailing down exactly what Bitcoin is. "

04:36:29 mircea_popescu: owned by aol, what's one to expect.

04:36:40 decimation: I suppose that is troublesome for some...

04:37:51 decimation: I was re-reading some other early Moldbug and found this one: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ca/2007/11/who-heck-is-benn-steil.html

04:38:14 decimation: "My test is that a real economist is an economist who believes that any quantity of money is adequate. A quack economist is an economist who believes that increasing prosperity - or even continuing prosperity - demands a continuously increasing quantity of money."

04:38:26 mircea_popescu: not a bad test.

04:38:53 decimation: no. as usual, his post is overly wordy, but he is writing about bitcoin and he doesn't realize it

04:39:35 decimation: "Every nonneutral dilution can be defined as the combination of a neutral redenomination and a nonneutral redistribution. And this is why dilutionists are quacks. Dilutionists are quacks because it is impossible to imagine a way in which the systematic pilfering of wallets could somehow be essential to commerce and industry."

04:39:36 mircea_popescu: decimation kind-of explains why he was so butthurt when bitcoin showed up.

04:39:42 decimation: oh yeah I agree

04:39:45 mircea_popescu: sorta same problem as the average gold bug, except his is more refined.

04:39:49 decimation: he said as much in one if his posts

04:39:52 mircea_popescu: hopefully he manages to work through teh issue.

04:40:22 decimation: well, he should stop trying to make gay navies and start by re-writing the bitcoin client with a real spec

04:40:33 mircea_popescu: anyway, i can readily offer a way in which systematic pilfering is essential to commerce and industry.

04:40:38 mircea_popescu: here goes :

04:41:26 mircea_popescu: society at all times opposes youthful monkeys with aged monkeys. these desire to control the female monkeys, and all the stuff related to this, from cars to stockings. including their means of production and so on, all the way to legislation (which monkey may shave her cunt and show up in garters ? mine or yours ? )

04:41:44 mircea_popescu: by workings of thermodynamics wealth (in all its forms) concentrates with the old

04:42:06 mircea_popescu: whereas by workings of biology will (in all its forms) concentrates with the young.

04:42:44 mircea_popescu: at any time there will exist a quantity of theft, q. at any time there will also exist a minimal quantity of theft, mq, such that it is more productive for the young to work at commerce and industry to acquire wealth

04:42:51 mircea_popescu: than to work at shooting and looting.

04:42:59 mircea_popescu: if q < mq there is no commerce and industry.

04:43:10 mircea_popescu: if q is mq + epsilon, all is well.

04:44:11 mircea_popescu: the study of epsilon and of the means through which q = mq+e may be ensured is then the business of the economist.

04:44:32 decimation: This goes to your point about those who flatter USG make out like bandits; while those trying to make money "from the sweat of their brow" end up funding the fortunes of the flatterers

04:44:54 mircea_popescu: i guess it may, yeah.

04:44:54 benkay: best part of the engaget 'story' is that the world 'currency' is linked and goes to another btc atm.

04:45:12 B007: link bait

04:45:16 mircea_popescu: benkay they definitely have an editor in charge of being 1990s fucktarded

04:45:40 benkay: not uni students majoring in social media?

04:46:07 mircea_popescu: undiscernible until she opens her box.

04:47:16 decimation: yeah that's a pretty good point. Moldbug has a point about closed currencies, but your point goes to human nature - something that "economists" often famously ignore.

04:47:26 mircea_popescu: or pretend to.

04:50:27 mircea_popescu: if anyone is so inclined, the immortal balzac has an excellent depiction of the pilfering problem, in his eugenie grandet

04:50:42 mircea_popescu: the old folks have shit, the young folks want the shit. negotiation ensues.

04:50:58 mircea_popescu: and for that matter, let us quote moliere :

04:53:46 mircea_popescu: "Que veux−tu que j'y fasse ? Voilà où les jeunes gens sont réduits par la maudite avarice des pères ; et on s'étonne après cela que les fils souhaitent qu'ils meurent."

04:54:07 decimation: I don't have any french, only german. Google translate for me.

04:54:38 mircea_popescu: they must have l'avare translated in goetesprache by now

04:54:52 decimation: heh

04:55:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, "what'd you have me do ? see where young men are reduced by the accursed avarice of their fathers, and they then wonder that sons wish their death"

04:57:05 decimation: So to answer Moldbug: Monetary dillusion could be used as a way to reduce crime - by redistributing wealth (just enough) to keep crime down and businesses open

04:57:23 mircea_popescu: not a matter of crime.

04:57:37 mircea_popescu: to reduce economic inefficiency, by taking from the hands of the savers and putting into the hands of the riskers.

04:57:52 B007: bad idea

04:58:19 B007: how did the savers get their moeny?

04:58:20 mircea_popescu: understand that the most economic way to run the economy - now as during 1614 - is to just turn off all machinery, lock all warehouses and bury the key

04:58:24 mircea_popescu: harpagon's approach.

04:58:49 decimation: that would surely feed the people with the least input!

04:58:52 mircea_popescu: B007 under which system do you ask ?

04:59:44 B007: mixed economy

05:00:06 mircea_popescu: no. if you mean whether they achieved it legally, im sure htey did. if you mean were they once young, i'm sure they were.

05:00:15 mircea_popescu: if you mean, are they taking it with them, they certainly won't.

05:00:59 B007: http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2014/03/20/google_ceo_larry_page_elon_musk_would_get_my_inheritance_over_charity.html

05:01:00 ozbot: Google CEO Larry Page: Elon Musk would get my inheritance over charity.

05:01:51 mircea_popescu: seems sensible.

05:02:19 mircea_popescu: so do you propose that they who have it are the best arbiters of how it should disposed of ?

05:02:30 B007: possibly, yes

05:02:34 mircea_popescu: perhaps, but argue it to the younguns, not to me.

05:03:11 B007: I'd rather that then gov. or charities deciding

05:03:31 mircea_popescu: no argument.

05:03:35 decimation: in the US hardly any real charity exists

05:03:38 benkay: https://www.google.com/#q=mt+gox+missing+bitcoins

05:03:38 ozbot: Google

05:03:47 decimation: it's barely legal to tell someone 'no'

05:04:20 B007: benkay: that whole situation is a lot of wot

05:04:25 benkay: such wat

05:04:46 Mats_cd03: wut

05:06:23 B007: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/446377308853518337

05:06:24 ozbot: Twitter / ID_AA_Carmack: Get in the Oculus DK2 Queue: ...

05:07:02 Mats_cd03: they shouldve just built a helmet out of it

05:07:15 Mats_cd03: that thing looks too uncomfortable to wear

05:07:26 benkay: i'll wait until the pixel density exceeds my ocular resolution, tyvm.

05:07:33 B007: helmets are bad for warm climates

05:07:38 B007: sweat

05:07:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61998998 BTC [+]

05:07:54 Mats_cd03: then they can drill a few holes in there

05:08:01 Mats_cd03: install a small fan to move air around

05:08:09 mircea_popescu: lmao propellerheads!

05:08:29 B007: fanheads

05:08:37 Mats_cd03: they solved that problem in CBRNE suits already

05:08:52 Mats_cd03: its not that cool, more like a tiny A/C unit inside the gas mask

05:09:44 B007: why add all that complexity and cost though

05:14:36 benkay: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Why_I_Never_Hire_Brilliant_Men

05:14:37 ozbot: Why I Never Hire Brilliant Men - Wikisource, the free online library

05:26:24 mircea_popescu: "A nationwide scam involving fake Internal Revenue Service representatives has already resulted in $1 million being stolen from thousands of unsuspecting victims."

05:26:33 mircea_popescu: pretend to be the taxman, even robin hood did that one

05:36:22 Mats_cd03: if i wanted to read hn links i would visit hn

05:39:51 LordPutin: Ukyo why not say something in thebitcointalk thread just to know....letpeopleknow you still care, if its ok?

05:44:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00084111 = 8.9999 BTC [-]

05:45:09 joecool: LordPutin: hey you're alive!

05:46:09 mircea_popescu: he's simpleminded sociopath, i read in the washington pravda.

05:46:17 LordPutin: i'm alive just more slient than an Obama fart

05:55:29 Mats_cd03: heres an idea

05:55:45 Mats_cd03: someone create a replacement for full-disclosure that solely utilizes the bitcoin protocol

05:57:02 Mats_cd03: id fund dev for that

05:58:38 mircea_popescu: then you'll probably want to specify it better.

05:58:55 mircea_popescu: you know, to sorely contrast with the bitcoin derpotroll

05:59:04 mircea_popescu: s/derpotroll/protocol

06:04:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.600021 BTC [-]

06:05:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06345979 = 0.3173 BTC [-]

06:05:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.057 = 0.57 BTC [+]

06:06:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.600011 BTC [-]

06:08:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.0575 = 0.5175 BTC [+] {2}

06:17:02 Izzy_: hello

06:18:08 Izzy_: i'm game to learn about bitcoin

06:18:26 mircea_popescu: good for you.

06:19:24 Izzy_: step 1?

06:20:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0575 = 0.115 BTC [+]

06:20:02 mircea_popescu: reading this log can't hurt, may take a while.

06:20:12 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/category/bitcoin/ may also help.

06:20:13 ozbot: Bitcoin pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

06:20:30 Izzy_: djing on www.openxrptalk.org if you need aural stimulation

06:20:34 deerok: how do you find the log

06:20:42 Mats_cd03: pseudonymous forum that allows for full disclosure while insulating identity of researchers while maintaining a reputation system

06:20:43 deerok: oh

06:20:45 deerok: at top sorry

06:20:46 mircea_popescu: ;;topic

06:20:46 gribble: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com

06:20:52 Mats_cd03: pgp would be great

06:21:20 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 so simply advertise a gpg key, which people can encrypt to.

06:21:31 mircea_popescu: autopublish whatever's sent.

06:22:18 Mats_cd03: i suppose its a solved problem after all

06:23:27 Izzy_: okay, got this message in my email to have access to your blog "Please send exactly 0.01002637 BTC to 16crkmdoaK6Tq8NP3FVK7Uxq5Dwdicb3c3"

06:23:32 mircea_popescu: cryptome are also doing a splendid job of it already

06:23:38 mircea_popescu: but it never hurts to have redundancy

06:23:46 Izzy_: how do i get the btc?

06:24:06 mircea_popescu: Izzy_ well normally you mine it, but i guess most people trade or w/e

06:24:46 Izzy_: w/e?

06:24:58 Izzy_: i can try mining

06:25:22 mircea_popescu: w/e = whatever

06:26:26 benkay: mircea_popescu: you back atc but don't accept it for fraudsters credits?!

06:26:58 anirgu: nice

06:27:04 mircea_popescu: what am i going to do, run an atc wallet ?

06:27:26 mircea_popescu: but btw, splendid link. i had not know that. weird. wild. etc.

06:27:54 mircea_popescu: "One of the fine traits in human nature is the desire which almost every decent man has to help young men do well."

06:28:20 mircea_popescu: this is quite factual. correspondingly, one of the worst traits of human nature is the delusion by which almost every young man imagines the adults wish him ill.

06:28:43 Izzy_: is there a step by step sight for future bitcoinistas?

06:29:15 anirgu: Amith here from I Have Bitcoins

06:29:19 mircea_popescu: Izzy_ what's your line ?

06:29:23 mircea_popescu: anirgu hi amith.

06:29:34 Izzy_: my line?

06:29:45 mircea_popescu: nice formatting, but don't you find that chinese workers example a little bizarre ?

06:29:57 mircea_popescu: Izzy_ yes, what did you learn in school and what do you do for a living.

06:30:04 benkay: mircea_popescu: by the by, this backus-naur btc network parser is way over my head :(

06:30:06 mircea_popescu: are you a fishmonger or a mechanical engineer.

06:30:18 benkay: humbly submit for canings etc

06:30:23 Izzy_: i studied psychology

06:30:27 mircea_popescu: benkay well what, it was supposed to be a huge taks.

06:31:27 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell moiety Izzy_ something tells me your best entry would be one on one tutoring with moiety.

06:31:27 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:31:33 Izzy_: for a living right now, i'm a broadcaster on www.openxrptalk.org - we'll see how far i can take it

06:31:47 mircea_popescu: you two seem made for each other.

06:31:49 Izzy_: why does there seem to be a divide w/ xrp and bitcoin

06:31:57 mircea_popescu: because there is.

06:32:21 mircea_popescu: anirgu : that it appears you're proposing the usg regulate the life of chinese workers.

06:32:29 Izzy_: who is moeity?

06:32:36 mircea_popescu: Izzy_ this scottish chick.

06:32:48 benkay: Izzy_: have ye a gpg and wot yet?

06:32:53 anirgu: no no no no. didn't want it to come off like that at all

06:32:59 mircea_popescu: well... it does.

06:33:03 mircea_popescu: at least to my eye.

06:33:05 Izzy_: no i don't think so

06:33:09 joecool: ;;guide

06:33:10 gribble: Error: "guide" is not a valid command.

06:33:12 anirgu: i wanted to drive home that the USA should not be reuglating nayone

06:33:20 mircea_popescu: if anyone wants to give a 2nd oppinion, http://www.ihavebitcoins.com/featured/sec-asked-romanian-bitcoin-ceo-private-data-response/

06:33:23 joecool: hm they removed it

06:33:24 Izzy_: tutoring w/ moeity sounds good - how do i get in touch with her

06:33:45 mircea_popescu: Izzy_ well i just left her a message above, which is what gribble confirmed. she'll prolly hiot you up if you're around once she shows up

06:33:47 mircea_popescu: ;;seen moiety

06:33:48 gribble: moiety was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 5 hours, and 5 seconds ago: <moiety> i sreepy, good mew all, whatever your timezone!

06:34:10 Izzy_: cool thx mircea

06:35:32 mircea_popescu: benkay so are you giving it a rest or merely wanted to complain ?

06:38:03 benkay: well there's a strategic option that while less tasteful may satisfy

06:38:19 benkay: these conformal doods seem to have their heads screwed on straight.

06:38:25 benkay: excuse me.

06:38:38 benkay: these gentlemen at conformal seem to know what they're doing and going about it in all the right ways.

06:38:46 mircea_popescu: seems that way.

06:38:49 benkay: are*

06:38:57 chetty: yeah the reference to chinese workers needs better explain, could be misunderstood

06:39:55 benkay: i'm considering giving my hacky implementation a rest and diving into the work they've done

06:40:06 mircea_popescu: this can not hurt.

06:40:22 mircea_popescu: in business, stealing is everything.

06:40:22 benkay: kinda the thesis, yeah

06:41:34 benkay: writing too, i hear.

06:42:28 anirgu: ok, that's two. need to reword this...

06:42:52 benkay: anyways, hound's tanks appear to be full, and my reserves depleted. updates rendered

06:43:18 mircea_popescu: aite.

06:45:51 benkay: "leverage". the word i was looking for a few minutes ago. "leverage".

06:50:50 mircea_popescu: "Tokyo funds matchmaking parties to boost birth rate"

06:50:58 mircea_popescu: then people complain about condomacare.

06:52:26 Izzy_: what's up w/ eve isks?

06:52:56 Izzy_: i played the game 10 years ago, but just to hear the music

06:53:15 Izzy_: so now they have a cryptocurrency?

06:53:33 mircea_popescu: not so crypto, but anyway

06:53:49 Izzy_: similar concept? or trading/mining?

06:54:01 Izzy_: of

06:55:01 mircea_popescu: i think it's all backed by stuff you mine out of asteroids, so yea

06:57:09 Izzy_: cool

06:58:28 cazalla: Japan is boosting the birth rate by bringing diversity to the country

06:59:08 mircea_popescu: like what, men who can summon actual erections ?

06:59:16 cazalla: can't find the article but it detailed their plan to bring in negroes

06:59:27 mircea_popescu: should make decent pronz

06:59:55 cazalla: hopefully japanese men have enough sense to grab some rope

07:01:19 mircea_popescu: if they didn't bother to grab the soap so far, why'd they muddle with the rope henceforth ?

07:02:26 cazalla: given they are xenophobic beyond what i could ever be, i expect them to put up a little more resistance to cultural enrichment than the west has to date

07:02:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00083912 = 15.9433 BTC [-]

07:09:56 mircea_popescu: no man that can't be bothered to fuck the woman cares if she goes astray, srsly nao.

07:11:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22723 @ 0.0008379 = 19.0396 BTC [-] {2}

07:11:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 70 @ 0.00540004 = 0.378 BTC [-] {3}

07:13:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0059416 = 0.1545 BTC [-]

07:14:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1580 @ 0.00013311 = 0.2103 BTC [-] {7}

07:15:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.60000273 = 9 BTC [-] {3}

07:19:30 cazalla: i've no retort to that (as much as i've sat here thinking of one)

07:22:28 mircea_popescu: well then i can go to bed

07:22:37 chetty: cazalla: cultural enrichment ? hmm

07:23:37 cazalla: chetty: send 'em to Israel

07:24:13 chetty: the phrase reminds me of 'social justice'

07:25:38 cazalla: that's where it comes from

07:27:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21670 @ 0.00083682 = 18.1339 BTC [-] {2}

07:31:58 Izzy_: @mircea_popescu g'night - thx for the contact w/ your scottish friend

07:32:05 Izzy_: hope to hear from her tonight

07:37:59 LordPutin: i hope the ceo of bitcoin gets released onbail tonight so the price goes back up

07:40:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07001203 = 0.14 BTC [-]

07:48:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00322945 = 0.1292 BTC [+] {2}

07:49:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.086 = 0.344 BTC [-] {2}

07:49:44 cazalla: i need it to stay down for another 5 weeks :\

07:49:48 cazalla: lower would be ideal

07:50:31 B007: why's that?

07:51:06 cazalla: more coin for my buck

07:51:08 benkay: to get more, duh B007

07:51:33 benkay: chetty: iirc you've been known to read scifi?

07:52:46 benkay: chetty: i'm reading a splendid little space opera set across the solar system. war between mars and the belt, with big rocks waiting in the wings to get tipped down the well.

07:52:48 cazalla: benkay: that + my old man is being generous enough to give his kids some $$$ from his own inheritance

07:53:31 benkay: cazalla: how does the inheritance play?

07:53:53 benkay: oh, I see. you're going to off your father.

07:53:59 cazalla: haha not quite

07:54:09 cazalla: he's kind enough to give my brother and I a windfall

07:54:13 benkay: and the gig is planned for 1.25 months from now.

07:55:14 benkay: what do you plan to do with the hoard?

07:56:07 benkay: at 12, there was a man ranting in ##econometrics about mortgaging himself to the hilt and going long btc.

07:56:09 cazalla: i'm not knocking off the old man

07:56:24 cazalla: just putting what he plans to give me into bitcoin

07:56:34 benkay: i thought him either a fool if honest, or a sly fox if amping the hysteria.

07:56:44 benkay: now might not be a bad time to do the same thing.

07:57:29 benkay: don't take it too seriously, now cazalla.

07:57:46 Izzy_: could someone explain how i get gpg?

07:57:50 benkay: btc's probably the best thing you could do with the stash.

07:57:52 cazalla: i don't but i just wish i had the dosh now incase it goes back up in the interim

07:57:55 benkay: provided it's a cold wallet.

07:58:05 benkay: eh what's the rush.

07:58:18 benkay: we're not in insane appreciation mode yet, although spring *is* coming.

07:58:28 benkay: the counterargument is that the halvening is many moons from now.

07:58:39 cazalla: the rush is that i only appreciate now what i wish i appcreciated 2 years ago

07:58:47 benkay: Izzy_: dost thou run windows? *nix?

07:59:02 Izzy_: mac osx

07:59:10 Izzy_: do i need windows?

07:59:10 benkay: type gpg -k at the console

07:59:21 benkay: or man gpg, rather.

07:59:24 cazalla: i could've had hundreds instead of the plebeian amount i now own

07:59:35 cazalla: or thousands

07:59:35 Izzy_: ok

07:59:37 BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record GPG guide

07:59:38 gribble: PGP/GPG Guide | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/pgpgpg-guide/; Signature Thursday: Geany a GUI text editor for GPG tasks | Bingo ...: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/31/signature-thursday-geany-a-gui-text-editor-for-gpg-tasks/; October | 2013 | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/

07:59:55 benkay: ha i was sticking something in the fridge, BingoBoingo.

08:00:18 benkay: rest assured that was my next message.

08:00:29 Izzy_: hm i can't type into my console

08:00:35 chetty: benkay: I haven't time for scfi reading much in a while, anyway real life seems to have caught up, the newspaper is mostly scifi

08:00:36 BingoBoingo: benkay: Eh, things happen.

08:00:51 benkay: Izzy_: the terminal?

08:01:09 benkay: my mistake. console is an actual 'thing' on os x.

08:04:02 Izzy_: ok terminal, says command not found

08:04:07 Izzy_: just gpg?

08:04:17 benkay: man gpg?

08:04:34 benkay: oh lord does os x not ship with gpg these days?

08:05:21 chetty: does it at least have a package manager?

08:05:29 benkay: of course not

08:05:36 benkay: http://brew.sh/

08:05:47 chetty: << Mac clueless

08:06:00 benkay: curl2sudoTM

08:06:10 benkay: curl2sudo™

08:06:36 benkay: chetty: what's your poison?

08:07:20 chetty: linux

08:07:35 benkay: *eyeroll*

08:07:37 benkay: which flavor?

08:07:52 chetty: ubuntu (atm)

08:09:14 chetty: I need to do some mac and eep win, to make eulora clients soonish

08:09:24 benkay: mhm.

08:09:53 benkay: are the assettes being helpful with building?

08:12:02 chetty: yup see #eulora :)

08:13:53 Izzy_: well if anyone wants to help out a mac user, you can email me @ isabism@gmail.com

08:14:26 Izzy_: don't want to clog the forum w/ my tech support needs

08:14:27 benkay: ;;later tell Izzy_ come back for help sometime

08:14:27 gribble: The operation succeeded.

08:14:30 Izzy_: thanks

08:14:38 Izzy_: ok

08:14:40 benkay: not a clog.

08:16:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00082309 = 18.3549 BTC [-] {2}

08:35:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00082334 = 8.8921 BTC [+]

09:01:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19076 @ 0.00083248 = 15.8804 BTC [+]

09:48:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.07299958 = 0.949 BTC [+] {4}

09:52:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.05460117 = 0.3822 BTC [-] {2}

09:52:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1810 @ 0.00012948 = 0.2344 BTC [-] {4}

10:09:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00083891 = 3.3556 BTC [+]

10:43:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14122 @ 0.00084039 = 11.868 BTC [+] {2}

10:49:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 14 @ 0.06482071 = 0.9075 BTC [+] {5}

10:51:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0546 = 0.1092 BTC [-]

10:51:39 Neil: Uh, who's dumping in China? $520 now

10:52:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38027 @ 0.00084072 = 31.9701 BTC [+] {2}

10:56:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 18 @ 0.59508334 = 10.7115 BTC [-] {6}

10:57:10 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

10:57:16 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 581.1, vol: 13608.15310689 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 575.999, vol: 7410.23018 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 578.0, vol: 8658.31554504 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 604.0, vol: 598.08691876 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 556.07856, vol: 5220.73100000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 593.65, vol: 13.55627424 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 584.696, vol: 95.10254831 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

11:00:17 Neil: Missing huobi; the one with highest vol.

11:00:38 Neil: bitstamp catching up...

11:00:48 Neil: Huge selling

11:12:14 kakobrekla: hedge, quickly, bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/

11:13:27 jurov: if gox "finds" anoher 500k that'll be time to hedge

11:18:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07299999 = 0.219 BTC [+]

11:37:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]

11:40:12 Apocalyptic: <zveda> visa/mastercard block russia

11:40:15 Apocalyptic: is that confirmed ?

11:41:13 kakobrekla: ;;google visa/mastercard block russia

11:41:14 gribble: ​Visa, Mastercard block US-sanctioned Russian banks ... - RT.com: http://rt.com/business/visa-mastercard-russia-sanctions-285/; Bitcoin FTW in Russia | Max Keiser: http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/03/bitcoin-ftw-in-russia/; Twitter / Datavetaren: So VISA/Mastercard just became ...: https://twitter.com/Datavetaren/statuses/446921031614484481

11:41:52 Apocalyptic: ty kako

11:58:16 Namworld: https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140320-btc-announce.pdf

11:58:28 Namworld: ok... that is funny...

12:01:55 kakobrekla: did he check under the couch cushions?

12:02:03 BingoBoingo: Namworld: Here's a likely plan. 1) Be shit and get coins trading for 1/5th value buying many with play money 2) Shutdown and Bankruptcy filing 3) gradually "find" coins 4) ??? 5) Profit

12:04:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37950 @ 0.00083707 = 31.7668 BTC [-] {2}

12:12:58 Namworld: He has more debt in USD than funds, cheap Bitcoins and an overall profit, in that scenario.

12:14:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.073 = 0.146 BTC [+]

12:15:12 nubbins`: mircea_popescu based on original pink eye artwork ;D

12:24:01 chetty: http://www.rtcc.org/2014/03/20/climate-adaptation-facing-funding-crisis-warn-un-officials/

12:24:09 ozbot: Climate adaptation facing funding crisis warn UN officials

12:26:27 mircea_popescu: good morning chitlins

12:26:41 mircea_popescu: .d

12:26:41 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 659 blocks | Estimated Change: 11.8648% in 4d 0h 41m 0s

12:29:48 nubbins`: morning

12:30:49 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay http://fraudsters.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/#comment-98630 hapoy now ? :D

12:30:49 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:31:59 nubbins`: ah, so crimea has been officially annexed

12:32:45 mircea_popescu: more interestingly, visa and mastercard have been officially nationalised

12:33:15 BingoBoingo: They always kind of were.

12:33:39 mircea_popescu: also true.

12:34:00 mircea_popescu: the chief difference between the usa and the cccp being that the usa is in denial about building socialism.

12:35:17 BingoBoingo: This was especially true at the peak of McCarthyism, since Johnson though there's gradually been a little less denial though every generation.

12:35:56 Namworld: mircea, no, I'm not coding for noobs. I just give an advice about not trusting anything just because it looks good because code can't be audited.

12:36:16 mircea_popescu: no but usa != the people living at any given time in the areal. just like cccp != the poor russian and other nationalities engulag'd.

12:36:28 Namworld: But they want me to code an exchange regardless.

12:36:30 mircea_popescu: illegitimate governments never can stand for the peoples they claim to represent.

12:36:42 mircea_popescu: Namworld sounds about right.

12:36:52 mircea_popescu: anyway, why not just use Apocalyptic's thing.

12:37:01 mircea_popescu: not enough scamcoins on it ?

12:37:15 Namworld: eh

12:37:22 daybyter: Namworld: what language you want to use?

12:37:24 Namworld: Have you seen the latest gox?

12:37:27 Namworld: http://tech.sina.com.cn/i/2014-03-21/19489261951.shtml

12:37:34 Namworld: urf, wrong link

12:37:45 mircea_popescu: benkay: at 12, there was a man ranting in ##econometrics about mortgaging himself to the hilt and going long btc. <<< this has long been the practical bank killer.

12:37:47 Namworld: https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140320-btc-announce.pdf

12:37:53 Namworld: This one is right

12:37:56 mircea_popescu: that man will soon discover that paying back his mortgage is not really in his interest,

12:38:00 mircea_popescu: whatever btc does.

12:38:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18567 @ 0.00084096 = 15.6141 BTC [+] {2}

12:38:21 mircea_popescu: lol @the notion of gox still publishing pdfs

12:38:40 mircea_popescu: unless it's a naked karpeles dancing in the streets of tokio for nickels i ain't interested.

12:38:42 mircea_popescu: what's mtgxo.

12:39:12 mircea_popescu: Izzy_: do i need windows? << ahaha she's so cute.

12:39:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3483 @ 0.00084294 = 2.936 BTC [+]

12:39:16 Namworld: Gox has now 202k BTC, officially. They also officially don't know how much they have at all.

12:39:39 Namworld: Read it, it's one page in english. It's a good laugh.

12:39:44 mircea_popescu: a, i heard he was claiming that yest

12:40:04 Namworld: Well the official details are entertaining.

12:40:13 nubbins`: mpex on engadget now

12:40:16 mircea_popescu: cazalla you know, i bought tons at about $2.ish per ?

12:40:20 nubbins`: really making the rounds this time

12:40:25 Namworld: You can't make up stuff like that.

12:40:37 mircea_popescu: nubbins` https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/446867449343139841 < kinda been discussed here too

12:40:45 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: an order of magnitude lower than me ;(

12:40:59 nubbins`: aha.

12:41:15 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i like bothering people with that figure :D i imagine all the assholes buying 10k for a pizza are long gone so nobody can bother me.

12:41:25 Namworld: I wish I had bought more at 5ish.

12:41:25 nubbins`: heh.

12:41:35 nubbins`: first one i ever bought was $11

12:41:35 mircea_popescu: men who live in low price houses can afford to throw pricepoints around

12:41:36 Namworld: I was a few weeks late.

12:41:50 mircea_popescu: nubbins` my first buy was 60 * 15

12:41:54 mircea_popescu: i like round numbers.

12:42:07 nubbins`: i spent most of the early ones

12:42:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 676 @ 0.00310111 = 2.0964 BTC [-] {4}

12:42:22 nubbins`: avg price for the ones i still have was around $22

12:42:36 nubbins`: luckily had the foresight to stop spending them

12:43:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 87 @ 0.00310008 = 0.2697 BTC [-]

12:43:50 mircea_popescu: i spent about a year with ppl going "wait so you bought at 15 ? but it's not even half that now! you got duped mp!"

12:43:59 mircea_popescu: and i was liek "let me show you how averaging works"

12:44:19 nubbins`: heh

12:44:36 mircea_popescu: "all you need is an infinity of moneyz, you'll be just fine"

12:45:23 nubbins`: TBF i was buying btc and pushing them into SR as fast as i could, and pascale said "maybe we should sit on a few k's"

12:45:25 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Roughly when did you start lawyering up and working on the MPEx/MPOE legal contingencies?

12:45:28 nubbins`: wise woman :0

12:45:36 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo roughly july 2011.

12:45:53 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Cool, working on a blog post.

12:47:36 nubbins`: surprising amount of art for sale on btctalk

12:49:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14456 @ 0.00084295 = 12.1857 BTC [+] {2}

12:49:49 only_: nubbins`: so Bitcoin isn't made for spending, huh?

12:50:02 Namworld: The finest counterfeit Picasso's alongside $1 store paintings?

12:50:06 nubbins`: what makes ya think that?

12:50:12 mircea_popescu: so i can't really believe it, but after being on everywhere fraudsters ain't been down.

12:50:21 mircea_popescu: i would say moore's law officially solved the problem of slashdotting, permanently.

12:50:28 mircea_popescu: unless you're being silly, it won't happen.

12:50:33 Namworld: So it seems.

12:51:06 mircea_popescu: bitcoin's made for spendin' like them tits are made for squeezin'. not all the time not by everyone.

12:51:57 only_: haha

12:52:27 nubbins`: with the caveat that tits are better squeezed now than later

12:52:33 nubbins`: and btc, the opposite

12:52:42 nubbins`: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/science/flies-that-do-calculus-with-their-wings.html?hpw&rref=science

12:53:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00310007 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2}

12:53:47 only: dat fixed supply!!1

12:54:28 nubbins`: in fact, tits are inflationary just like btc

12:54:37 mircea_popescu: also deflationary.

12:54:41 nubbins`: there's a pun hidden in there if anyone's looking

12:55:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14757 @ 0.00084338 = 12.4458 BTC [+]

12:56:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00083704 = 10.3793 BTC [-]

12:57:47 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjMajHFCUAAaocD.jpg < this explains who gets hurt if the us keeps on yakking.

13:04:30 ReutersEmily: Howdy

13:05:04 kakobrekla: hi

13:05:23 BingoBoingo: Hello

13:05:30 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/446995984758108161

13:05:31 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @MKRocks @felixsalmon $1k USD ...

13:05:40 ReutersEmily: I am completely unfamiliar with the etiquette in here

13:05:41 mircea_popescu: who knew, mpex is 50% better than the best investment in the history of venture investment.

13:05:44 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily hello.

13:05:54 mircea_popescu: don't worry about the etiquette, it fell off.

13:05:59 ReutersEmily: Oh so glad you are here mircea_popescu

13:07:33 ReutersEmily: How does MPEx work? Can one chose what specific investments one wants to make or is it a portfolio chosen by MPEx?

13:07:50 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily mpex works exactly like the nyse, if nyse worked as intended.

13:07:54 blackwhite: morning men

13:08:02 mircea_popescu: you put your orders in, it executes them.

13:08:07 ReutersEmily: Ok so you buy private placement share on MPEx

13:08:21 ReutersEmily: like could I buy shares of AirBnB?

13:08:23 mircea_popescu: i'm not sure what you mean by " private placement " but probably.

13:08:32 mircea_popescu: a, no. you buy shares of companies registered with mpex.

13:08:36 ReutersEmily: ok

13:08:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00594041 = 0.1723 BTC [-]

13:08:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 139 @ 0.0031 = 0.4309 BTC [-] {5}

13:08:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05468 = 0.2734 BTC [+] {2}

13:08:50 mircea_popescu: you can't buy say british petroleum on nyse unless someone does a dr deal.

13:08:58 mircea_popescu: which do happen occasionally in bitcoin, but not really for fiat companies,

13:09:08 mircea_popescu: mostly because bitcoiners aren't interested in fiat investments

13:09:16 ReutersEmily: and all of the transactions are conducted in Bitcoin then?

13:09:21 mircea_popescu: yes.

13:09:28 mircea_popescu: like nyse does all deals in dollars,

13:09:32 mircea_popescu: so mpex does all deals in bitcoin

13:09:35 ReutersEmily: ok

13:09:43 ReutersEmily: so Havelock is the same, right?

13:09:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05533333 = 0.166 BTC [+] {3}

13:09:46 BingoBoingo: Well X.EUR is a thing

13:09:48 mircea_popescu: it aspires to be the same.

13:10:21 ReutersEmily: what if i have an idea for a startup, can i register with you before my company is really up and running in order to get some funding for my idea?

13:10:26 mircea_popescu: yes.

13:10:35 mircea_popescu: people try all the time, some succeed, some don;t.

13:11:14 ReutersEmily: as in - some make it through your registration process and others don't? or can anyone register, and then it's just sink or swim, it's a matter of whether they can attract funds?

13:11:23 mircea_popescu: s.nsa is a fine example of one company that succeeded. the owner there came up with the idea of making an actually cryptographically secure gpg gizmo

13:11:43 Namworld: Havelock works boh as an exchange, and as a broker. It makes it easy to trade, no opening fee and large trade fees. MPEx works like an actual exchabge. Not much interface, very high security, high entry fee for a seat, low trading fees.

13:11:49 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well, again just like the nyse. you have to satisfy a due dilligence process.

13:12:07 mircea_popescu: if you just let anyone randomly registering you end up with the pink sheets, basically.

13:12:45 ReutersEmily: so what kinds of people or companies do not make it thru your dd process?

13:12:53 ReutersEmily: like, what are the disqualifiers?

13:13:02 mircea_popescu: well, people without a business plan, people without an established identity, etc

13:13:17 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/how-does-one-list-on-mpex/

13:13:18 ozbot: How does one list on MPEx ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

13:13:22 mircea_popescu: there's a discussion on the topic.

13:13:33 ReutersEmily: ah - cool - thanks

13:13:49 ReutersEmily: So I see you posted the SEC letter on your site

13:14:02 ReutersEmily: that is unusual, to say the least

13:14:05 mircea_popescu: to quote one excited city trader,

13:14:46 mircea_popescu: "i read it and shared it with everyone i knew. i think it was fantastic. i was going to congratulate you on it yesterday but i figured you were too busy."

13:15:32 ReutersEmily: yeah it is really cool from my perspective (i cover SEC enforcement, etc) to get to see how they operate like that

13:15:40 mircea_popescu: so then good.

13:15:49 ReutersEmily: what else are you going to do about it?

13:15:55 mircea_popescu: as i was pointing out to someone from i don't remember where yesterday,

13:17:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#571077

13:17:03 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

13:17:10 mircea_popescu: you may want to pick up the glove she failed to identify.

13:17:30 mircea_popescu: (washington post, i'm reminded meanwhile)

13:18:30 ReutersEmily: You were saying the SEC already discussed whether they could have jurisdiction over bitcoin exchanges?

13:18:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.00304264 = 0.1004 BTC [-] {4}

13:19:05 mircea_popescu: no, i am saying their debate as to whethet to come out and say its not in their yeard or not ended up in fishtails last tiem they tried to come to a declaration.

13:19:23 mircea_popescu: that'll need a rephrase.

13:20:20 ReutersEmily: does MPEx offer currency exchange services as well?

13:20:28 mircea_popescu: not currently, not ever.

13:20:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.00304003 = 0.1003 BTC [-] {3}

13:20:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05599998 = 0.168 BTC [+]

13:20:57 mircea_popescu: there are websites that purport to do this for you, if you can trust them. canonically bitcoin is obtained by mining it.

13:20:57 pizzaman1337: X.EUR....?

13:21:16 ReutersEmily: can U.S. - based customers use MPEx?

13:21:16 mircea_popescu: x.eur is a settled euro future handled by bitcoin-central's davout, so i suppose you could use that.

13:21:23 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i have no idea.

13:21:42 pizzaman1337: such a loaded question

13:21:43 ReutersEmily: I'm just trying to figure out how the SEC would argue it has jurisdiction

13:21:59 mircea_popescu: i don't think it would or is trying to.

13:22:07 ReutersEmily: like, some other sites that deal in bitcoin have tried to stay out of range of US regulators by not letting people with US IP addresses log on

13:22:20 mircea_popescu: best anyone can determine, the sec is merely trying to cope with the serious problems of fraud enabled by unscrupulous operators

13:22:28 mircea_popescu: such as glbse, btct, havelock, bitfunder et all.

13:22:35 BingoBoingo: MPEx doesn't really have a "log in"

13:22:39 mircea_popescu: there has been a lengthy list of wannabe-mpex websites to date, it all ended bloody.

13:22:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00304 = 0.3344 BTC [-] {2}

13:22:58 ReutersEmily: are the rest of those (besides havelock) NYSE-type exchanges as well?

13:23:12 mircea_popescu: no, the ones besides havelock are dead.

13:23:17 ReutersEmily: how did it end bloody for the other sites?

13:23:23 mircea_popescu: people booking the traditional 50% losses in half year.

13:23:30 ReutersEmily: yikes

13:23:32 mircea_popescu: yhes.

13:23:39 mircea_popescu: so you know, on the ground there's quite legitimate concern.

13:23:47 mircea_popescu: i have an entyire department dedicated to researching and outing scams

13:23:56 mircea_popescu: i spend hundreds of my own btc to create evidentiary trails

13:23:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.05683332 = 0.341 BTC [+] {5}

13:24:14 ReutersEmily: how many people in your scam-outing dept and what do they do?

13:24:17 pizzaman1337: how many people work for MPEx? (while we're asking questions...)

13:24:38 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily about a dozen, it varies. they review public communications, keep track on the status of various purported btc companies, make regular statements etc.

13:24:59 mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 over a hundred by now if you count absolutely everyone.

13:25:05 ReutersEmily: What is the volume of trading on MPEx?

13:25:33 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily it varies wildly. currently in the 20-30k btc range. during one month it handled 400k btc in notional options exposure

13:25:45 mircea_popescu: which at the time worked out to well over half a billion.

13:25:51 ReutersEmily: when you say 20-30 thosuand, is that per month?

13:25:54 mircea_popescu: yes

13:26:23 ReutersEmily: and how many individuals do you think suffered when those other sites blew up?

13:26:58 mircea_popescu: to date i would guess about 20 to 30k different individuals have lost to unscrupulous operators somewhere between half a million and two million bitcoin

13:27:04 pizzaman1337: in the feb report the expenditure was 8.262335 BTC, how does that cover a hundred people?

13:27:11 mircea_popescu: that is easily over a billion dollars in today's market, but at the time btc was valued a lot lower

13:27:21 mircea_popescu: so if you want actual losses i'd guess ten to a hundred million.

13:27:41 mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 well there's this dastardly ambiguity in working for mp/working for mpex.

13:28:18 ReutersEmily: does MPEx keep track of where its users are located physically?

13:28:30 mircea_popescu: it doesn't, mostly because it can't.

13:28:36 mircea_popescu: do you understand symmetric key cryptography ?

13:30:04 mircea_popescu: you don't have to run research it, just say no if you don't an' i'll explain. it's not really too complicated.

13:30:31 ReutersEmily: i do not

13:30:34 BingoBoingo: A bit related to the fact this conversation is happening at all http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/21/the-problem-of-finding-bitcoin/

13:30:58 mircea_popescu: ok. so let's first look into prime factors. the prime factors of 12 are 2,2,3,3

13:31:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06300312 = 0.126 BTC [-]

13:31:09 mircea_popescu: because 12 is made up by multiplying 2 and 2 and 3.

13:31:13 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2*2*3

13:31:13 gribble: 12

13:31:16 mircea_popescu: with me so far ?

13:31:26 ReutersEmily: yeah

13:31:38 mircea_popescu: ok. can you tell me the prime factors of 30345 ?

13:31:56 pizzaman1337: (not off the top of our heads)

13:32:07 mircea_popescu: as you can imagine, this'd take a while. you'd have to keep trying dividing it

13:32:18 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, calculating 17?119?5?3 is trivial, and any kid in school should be able to do it.

13:32:52 mircea_popescu: now it turns out you can use this disparity for great mathematical accomplishments, in the sense that

13:33:10 mircea_popescu: if you have the 17?119?5?3 set (ie, the private key) you can do some things which someone only having the 30345 (ie, the public key) can not do.

13:33:12 Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> not enough scamcoins on it ? // I guess so

13:33:28 mircea_popescu: so now based on this you can send me messages that only i can decrypt, and i can respond in kind.

13:33:34 Apocalyptic: anyway I contacted that guy just for the lulz, if he was willing to pay for such a platform

13:33:44 ReutersEmily: ok

13:33:46 Apocalyptic: surprisingly he didn't have much coin

13:33:53 mircea_popescu: this is how mpex works : a new user registers his public key with mpex, and registers mpex's public key for himself.

13:33:54 Apocalyptic: and that's an understatement

13:34:02 mircea_popescu: once this is done, there's no more log in, there's no more anything.

13:34:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1346 @ 0.00304 = 4.0918 BTC [-]

13:34:14 mircea_popescu: you could just code your message, give it to anyone (publish it on your blog, whatever)

13:34:17 mircea_popescu: only mpex can read it.

13:34:29 mircea_popescu: and in fact you can actually put orders in mpex right from here, by talking to the bots.

13:34:35 ReutersEmily: ok

13:34:46 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-many-ways-available-for-talking-to-mpex/ that part is detailed here

13:34:46 ozbot: The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

13:34:52 mircea_popescu: we use it ocasionally, at least for debugging.

13:34:59 mircea_popescu: so, mpex is not a website in any sense.

13:35:18 ReutersEmily: ok

13:35:22 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic somehow not surprising.

13:35:27 bounce: that's asymmetric aka public key crypto, though. minor point of order.

13:35:36 mircea_popescu: bounce yeah ?

13:35:44 mircea_popescu: o i sayd symmetric sorry. my bad.

13:36:14 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the advantage of being here. i gain about 15 iq points when surrounded by these folks.

13:36:46 ReutersEmily: speaking of advantages, does MPEx make any money from individual trades?

13:37:00 mircea_popescu: there's a 0.2% fee on all trades for the seller only.

13:37:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0030256 = 0.6051 BTC [-] {2}

13:37:37 ReutersEmily: Thanks. And the way you just described the public key crypto, in trading terms, it sounds like MPEx is the counterparty to all trades?

13:37:45 ReutersEmily: or am I missing something

13:37:46 mircea_popescu: not at all.

13:37:51 mircea_popescu: how do you reason ?

13:38:16 ReutersEmily: like, if someone wants to sell something, MPEx is the buyer, and then MPEx turns around and finds a buyer?

13:38:27 ReutersEmily: or do you link buyers and sellers directly?

13:38:48 Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> Apocalyptic somehow not surprising. // that was ironic :)

13:38:50 mircea_popescu: mpex ensures that he who orders a buy or a sell has enough of whatever is needed, stocks, btc

13:39:08 mircea_popescu: and then whenever someone orders a crossing sell or buy, the trade is executed and reported to the parties.

13:39:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 106 @ 0.00302 = 0.3201 BTC [-]

13:39:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90475 @ 0.00084285 = 76.2569 BTC [+] {5}

13:39:20 mircea_popescu: again quite exactly as the nyse works.

13:39:40 ReutersEmily: and how do you verify the share holdings of an individual seller?

13:39:51 ReutersEmily: like, i can see how you would be able to verify the btc holdings

13:40:03 mircea_popescu: how ?

13:40:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29525 @ 0.00086236 = 25.4612 BTC [+] {7}

13:40:34 ReutersEmily: you say you make sure that he who orders a buy or a sell has enough of whatever is needed

13:40:36 mircea_popescu: $vwap s.mpoe

13:40:37 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00083879 high: 0.00096 low: 0.00080946 volume: 565745 btc: 474.53976688 7 day: average: 0.00082712 high: 0.00096 low: 0.00079506 volume: 6204983 btc: 5132.28943247 30 day: average: 0.00084866 high: 0.00096 low: 0.000745 volume: 29190747 btc: 24773.1627663

13:40:55 ReutersEmily: I can understand how you could verify BTC holdings but not quite how you could verify the share holdings

13:40:56 mircea_popescu: heh sweet stability.

13:41:12 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well, why not ? they seem of the same kind no ?

13:41:22 mircea_popescu: mpex keeps a list of what a signature owns, in btc or instruments.

13:41:59 ReutersEmily: ok

13:42:15 mircea_popescu: anyway, give a contract a read sometime

13:42:20 mircea_popescu: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.BBET

13:42:21 ozbot: S.BBET last 2000@0.00045000

13:42:23 mircea_popescu: such as.

13:42:27 ReutersEmily: will do

13:42:54 Namworld: The fact it works like it is makes communications for trades and information very secure, using strong encryption. It works like one would make orders digitally with an actual stock exchange. Low fees per trade too. But high entry fee and no interface.

13:43:16 ReutersEmily: so do you think exchanges like MPEx will eventually need regulation the way NYSE needs it - to prevent corners and other bad behavior?

13:43:28 Namworld: One can buy a registration with MPEx and then actually provide the brokering service, complete with actual web interface. Such as what coinbr.com did.

13:43:33 mircea_popescu: mpex does have regulation,

13:44:01 mircea_popescu: what mpex does is for fiat institutions to recognise there are people who understand how things work and are currently working to prevent such corner cases and bad behaviour

13:44:08 mircea_popescu: and help with the process of limiting those.

13:44:17 mircea_popescu: what mpex needs*

13:44:29 mircea_popescu: for instance : i've written a standard for accounting

13:44:40 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/

13:44:41 ozbot: Accounting for the nonzero asset corporation. The MPEx standard. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Pope

13:44:57 mircea_popescu: i force mpex corps to publiush monthly reports,

13:45:08 mircea_popescu: there's a lengthy list, and all this is strictly a mpex thing, nobody else does it.

13:45:14 mircea_popescu: tho i tell them to. but what's in a telling ?

13:45:15 ReutersEmily: so that would be similar to the SEC's reporting requirements for public companies

13:45:19 mircea_popescu: very.

13:45:35 ReutersEmily: but when you say there are people who are trying to prevent bad behavior, how do they do that?

13:46:05 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily take for instance mpoe-pr. you familiar with her body of work ?

13:46:10 ReutersEmily: do you have limits on how many shares in a single company can be bought by a single signature?

13:46:29 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily not other than the limits of how many shares there exist in that company.

13:46:54 Namworld: MPEx at its core was made to be simple, secure and without any extras. Designed to be a true exchange. Other places so far dealing with Bitcoin securities have both the issuing and official trades of share, and the web interface. It makes them vulnerable to hacking and meddling with the list of holders.

13:47:37 ReutersEmily: I am not familiar with mpoe-pr

13:47:42 ReutersEmily: where can i find her work?

13:47:52 mircea_popescu: one sec

13:47:55 mircea_popescu: ;;google mpoe-pr

13:47:56 gribble: View the profile of MPOE-PR - Bitcoin Forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741; Latest posts of: MPOE-PR - Bitcoin Forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741;sa=showPosts; MPOE-PR, almost two years in the swamp. An anthology. pe fraudsters ...: http://fraudsters.com/2013/mpoe-pr-almost-two-years-in-the-swamp-an-anthology/

13:47:58 mircea_popescu: there you go.

13:48:09 mircea_popescu: jesus google has gotten good meanwhile ?!

13:48:18 mircea_popescu: what year is this! how long have i been asleep ?!

13:49:09 Namworld: MPOE-PR exposes scams and belittles random strangers looking for investments/offering a service which involves handling third party funds, without any respectability or proof of competency.

13:49:17 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily anyway, some highlights include calling out the pirate scam in april 2012, at a time everyone thought they knew better,

13:49:32 mircea_popescu: and unravelling a bunch of scammers posing as "bitcoin bankers" and issuing "credit ratings" and whatnot

13:49:39 mircea_popescu: and a lot of numerous other cases.

13:50:03 ReutersEmily: so...perhaps you don't want to discuss it here but i would love to know what you think of the new cyprus-based 'bank'

13:50:09 mircea_popescu: now, if the sec had actually had a gpgkey registered with me in april 2012,

13:50:16 mircea_popescu: we could have together avoided a shitton of loss and misery.

13:50:33 mircea_popescu: and if the sec was at my april 2013 conference, they could have known about mtgox nine months in advance,

13:50:44 mircea_popescu: like anyone in btc with a clue

13:50:53 ReutersEmily: what do you think went wrong w/mt gox?

13:51:01 mircea_popescu: rather than six montrhs after, like your run of the mill overworked, overwhelmed, sclerotic bureaucracy.

13:51:04 Namworld: On Bitcointalk forum. She tends to be very accurate, yet most often dismissed. In the end, she is usually proven right, sadly for those who didn't heed her warnings.

13:51:06 ReutersEmily: think it was a guy who couldn't run an exchange or an outside theft?

13:51:14 Monarch03: Mircea, what is your opinion about ASICminer, from investment point of view right now? thanks

13:51:26 BingoBoingo: http://fraudsters.com/2013/grave-concerns-re-mtgox/

13:51:27 ozbot: Grave concerns re MtGox pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

13:51:31 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily it's really all published

13:51:42 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/grave-concerns-re-mtgox/

13:51:43 ozbot: Grave concerns re MtGox pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

13:51:52 Namworld: I'm sorry, I'm probably just interupting and distracting from your questions to Mircea.

13:52:08 ReutersEmily: so when is your next conference mircea_popescu?

13:52:18 mircea_popescu: in about a month.

13:52:25 ReutersEmily: can i come?

13:52:29 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-conference-second-edition/

13:52:30 ozbot: The conference, second edition pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

13:52:35 mircea_popescu: you'll have to read and talk to your editor

13:52:35 pizzaman1337: signup closed 15th

13:52:38 mircea_popescu: but in principle yes

13:52:45 mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 well i imagine she wants to come as press rather than vip

13:53:29 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily if not, there's going to be another in 2015 anyway, so.

13:54:23 ReutersEmily: yeah i would want to come as press. altho since we have people far closer to Romania than I am here in NYC perhaps one of my colleagues would go instead

13:54:53 mircea_popescu: just as long as they understand what's going on.

13:54:55 ReutersEmily: so can we talk about Cyprus?

13:54:59 mircea_popescu: sure.

13:55:28 ReutersEmily: what is going on there, in your opinion?

13:55:36 mircea_popescu: well their govt collapsed and it seems messy

13:55:51 ReutersEmily: what about specifically in the btc space?

13:55:54 mircea_popescu: why are you asking me ?

13:56:05 mircea_popescu: oh. i dunno, it's a small country.

13:56:13 ReutersEmily: because i want to know what you think about some of the new businesses popping up there

13:56:21 mircea_popescu: the neobee people bought a lot of newspaper space recently, that hat you mean ?

13:56:39 ReutersEmily: yeah what do you think of them?

13:56:54 mircea_popescu: nothing too highly. to keep this short and sweet, the objections are :

13:57:18 mircea_popescu: a) that while neobee collected funds (on havelock), they have yet to issue a report. this is eerily reminescent of the bitcoin foundation scam, and does not bode well

13:57:41 mircea_popescu: b) that while neobee spends a lot of time executing, it's so far failed to actually come up with a business plan. anyone can buy advertising, and overpay for it.

13:58:06 mircea_popescu: c) that havelock has a history of allowing high rent corporations to just walk away from their obligations, such as they did in the case of virtex,

13:58:14 mircea_popescu: resulting in a good 4k btc loss for their "investors".

13:58:16 mircea_popescu: among others.

13:58:54 ReutersEmily: what about the fact that neobee is collectuing euros promising customers exposure to btc "with none of the risk?"

13:59:13 mircea_popescu: well that seems just about the average stupid thing they'd say.

13:59:27 mircea_popescu: recently, it was discovered (here) that they had misworded their contract.

13:59:30 mircea_popescu: let me find it for you

14:00:24 kakobrekla: its a prospectus.

14:01:26 LordPutin: <3 Putin forever

14:01:33 mircea_popescu: aha. ReutersEmily http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2014#567341

14:01:57 ReutersEmily: thanks

14:02:13 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily anyway, if you're positive-constructively inclined, they probably mean "with none of the risk holding your own btc entails, such as you not having a clue and deleting the wallet"

14:02:31 mircea_popescu: obviously this is not what one would read, be that one reasonable or otherwise, and obviously this point is not lost on them.

14:02:48 mircea_popescu: but this is what passes for "pr" these days, at least at the havelock level of things.

14:03:01 ReutersEmily: who runs havelock?

14:03:09 mircea_popescu: well apparently nobody.

14:03:25 mircea_popescu: a guy by the name topace used to, and claims he is no longer because some offshore corp bought it.

14:03:38 mircea_popescu: i buy that just about as much as any other flying pigs scenario.

14:03:43 BingoBoingo: "Moved to Panama"

14:04:16 ReutersEmily: well they have numbers you can call for help or whatever

14:04:21 mircea_popescu: until the securities and exchange comission of panama figures out how to work with me, i guess this shitshow'll continue.

14:04:23 BingoBoingo: For a while "moving to Panama" was such a popular claim it was nearly a meme in this space

14:04:24 ReutersEmily: i called one yesterday and got a recording and a menu

14:04:30 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily splendid. so what did you order ?

14:04:34 ReutersEmily: nothing

14:04:42 mircea_popescu: i hear the sichuan duck is good.

14:04:46 ReutersEmily: but someone has to be running it

14:05:01 LordPutin: i called them once and Dave from fbi answered

14:05:03 mircea_popescu: if you hang around maybe topace sees the highlights.

14:05:37 mircea_popescu: (this software works so that if anyone is mentioned - or has any strings of interest mentioned - they get a signal)

14:05:51 ReutersEmily: topace?

14:06:03 mircea_popescu: yes.

14:06:13 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it seems just by the time you're done with your post you can start on another eh.

14:06:24 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So it seems

14:06:32 ReutersEmily: BingoBoingo where do you post

14:06:32 kakobrekla: just bash it.

14:06:47 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The first one was done, maybe an hour ago http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/21/the-problem-of-finding-bitcoin/

14:06:49 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla does assbot support this many lines ? such wow. much amount.

14:07:00 BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com

14:07:06 kakobrekla: not enough doges to cover for it.

14:07:19 khersonus: Reuters on IRC? I can't decide if this is the future or the past, but I like it.

14:07:25 assbot: Last 1200 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1750786/plain/)

14:07:25 BingoBoingo: !b 1200

14:07:25 mircea_popescu: it's the future in the past.

14:07:42 khersonus: ReutersEmily: how did you find out about this place?

14:08:00 mircea_popescu: and now the hunter becomes the prey :D

14:08:38 khersonus: normally I just read the logs, but this was worth hopping on for

14:08:46 ReutersEmily: khersonus I wanted to talk to mircea_popescu about the SEC letter

14:08:58 khersonus: awesome

14:09:39 Namworld: khersonus, there was no proof provided that whoever is asking question is from Reuters. Someone joined and asked questions. People are answering. It could be left at that. Does it matter how or why someone arrived here?

14:09:59 mircea_popescu: nah im pretty sure it's the genuine article.

14:10:24 ReutersEmily: Huh I wonder how I would go about proving I'm from Reuters - happy to offer proof if you want

14:10:31 ReutersEmily: you can email me at emily.flitter@thomsonreuters.com

14:10:38 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily do you have a twitter ?

14:10:45 ReutersEmily: yeah its @FlitterOnFraud

14:10:52 mircea_popescu: so twitter anything related to this convo

14:10:58 mircea_popescu: i'm @mircea_popescu

14:11:03 ReutersEmily: oh sure thing

14:11:40 nubbins`: i have to say, things are interesting around here lately

14:11:41 khersonus: Namworld: I felt the need to ask, so I asked. Does it matter that I asked?

14:12:11 Namworld: No need. What I mean is, someone comes in here and ask questions, they'll probably get an answer, wether from the press or just a random stranger. Who the person actually is doesn't matter.

14:12:17 Namworld: khersonus, not really.

14:12:51 ReutersEmily: oh didn't see your handle till after i tweeted hold on i'll do another one

14:13:02 BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Honestly by 2015 I imagine this will be the norm

14:13:09 mircea_popescu: wow this is the prettiest spring outside

14:13:16 mircea_popescu: everything in my garden's in bloom

14:13:24 nubbins`: mircea_popescu, thank fred phelps

14:13:34 mircea_popescu: whats he do.

14:13:35 Namworld: It's spring already eh? Not in Canada sadly.

14:13:44 nubbins`: Namworld shush, you'll jinx it.

14:13:49 nubbins`: i went outside yesterday without a jacket

14:13:53 nubbins`: it was glorious

14:13:57 mircea_popescu: Namworld it has been for a week. all the cherry trees are pink

14:14:18 mircea_popescu: this shall henceforth be known as the mp curse, too.

14:14:41 mircea_popescu: when i originally picked a date for the secret conference, it was mostly tied to when this particular walkway of cherries would likely be in bloom.

14:14:46 mircea_popescu: then they hurried up and everyone missed it.

14:14:49 mircea_popescu: this year ? idem.

14:15:25 hdbuck: http://blogs.reuters.com/emily-flitter/ "covering financial crimes, including insider trading, investment scams, accounting fraud and financial firm misconduct" that sounds like a hell of a work. ^^

14:15:37 nubbins`: no cherry blossoms here, but there was a man looking confusedly back and forth between my house, the house next door, and the key in his hand

14:15:55 nubbins`: he eventually decided he didn't live on this street, and wandered off

14:15:58 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/FlitterOnFraud/status/447013452226113536 so there ye go, naysayers.

14:15:58 ozbot: Twitter / FlitterOnFraud: @mircea_popescu I wonder whether ...

14:16:23 ReutersEmily: hdbuck it's a fun beat but i don't think it's good for my blood pressure

14:16:47 LordPutin: dont forget ukyo the bitfunder scam artists

14:16:50 mircea_popescu: you have a blood pressure ?

14:17:00 nubbins`: you don't?!

14:17:02 mircea_popescu: gotta have no blood pressure.

14:17:04 mircea_popescu: nope.

14:17:11 *: nubbins` ponders this over coffee

14:17:14 mircea_popescu: lmao

14:17:28 ReutersEmily: oh right ukyo

14:17:37 ReutersEmily: i am so glad you rbought that up LordPutin

14:17:40 nubbins`: so what, you strap yourself into a centrifuge feet-out for sleep and head-out for thinking?

14:17:43 LordPutin: he ripped off people like 5 million dollars

14:18:09 mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's complicated and has a lot to do with spiders.

14:18:12 LordPutin: mircea will fill you in

14:18:13 ReutersEmily: i also am trying to find out - why did he (Jon Montroll) go to hang out with Danny Brewster after that happened, and how did that whole thing get resolved?

14:18:13 BingoBoingo: And that thing might be related to the Cyprus thing, kinds

14:18:18 nubbins`: oh god spiders D:

14:18:22 mircea_popescu: gotta remember, we're on the web. and the web is for spiders.

14:18:23 ReutersEmily: yeah

14:18:35 Namworld: Ah, Ukyo still owes me a large sum.

14:18:42 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well you know, people ocasionally go hang out. but

14:18:45 mircea_popescu: ;;seen Ukyo

14:18:45 gribble: Ukyo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 hours, 53 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Ukyo> Kinda hard to give what doesnt exist.

14:18:56 mircea_popescu: he was here recently, so perhaps can get back to you.

14:19:08 ReutersEmily: I would love to get in touch with him.

14:19:21 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily one of the better things you can do is get an irc client and set it up. thgat way you have your own logs, highlights, tab completes etc

14:19:21 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#570975

14:19:22 thestringpuller: did the Ukyo loan default

14:19:24 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

14:19:29 Namworld: He doesn't speak much at all usually. I doubt he'll talk to the press when he refuses to say anything to anyone.

14:19:34 mircea_popescu: (for instance i don't write out ReutersEmily every time i name you, i just type out re)

14:19:42 thestringpuller: is ThickAsThieves the only person to issue a bond and not fuck over people?

14:19:55 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller namworld did it.

14:19:59 mircea_popescu: a bunch of people did it.

14:20:09 thestringpuller: oh yea BTC.BOND

14:20:11 LordPutin: ukyo must pay for his crimes

14:20:12 ReutersEmily: what is an irc client

14:20:18 mircea_popescu: there was some unfortunate guy that took out a bond in btc and paid it out early on

14:20:23 thestringpuller: ReutersEmily: aren't you on an irc client right now?

14:20:27 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily what os do you use ?

14:20:35 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller she's on the webchat thing

14:20:42 Namworld: Software to access IRC channels. I suppose you're using the webchat?

14:20:55 dexX7: webchat

14:21:02 dexX7: look at the hostmask

14:21:05 ReutersEmily: uh...they just upgraded our computers here at work to windows whatever - 7?

14:21:08 mircea_popescu: a ok.

14:21:13 mircea_popescu: ;;google windows 7 irc client

14:21:14 gribble: The Top 7 Best Free IRC Clients for Windows 7 - MakeUseOf: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-7-free-irc-clients-windows-7/; Good IRC Clients? : windows - Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/1eezw4/good_irc_clients/; XChat: Multiplatform Chat Program: http://xchat.org/

14:21:16 thestringpuller: lol mIRC it up

14:21:16 Namworld: You can log from an actual, complete client of your choice. Usually comes with logs and more features.

14:21:20 mircea_popescu: pick from there.

14:21:20 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: most of us use dedicated software to connect to irc, rather than a website like you're using

14:21:25 ReutersEmily: yeah i'm using the webchat right now

14:21:27 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: sort of like gmail vs. outlook

14:21:39 thestringpuller: lol outlook

14:21:42 BingoBoingo: Except Webchat doesn't log

14:21:47 ReutersEmily: cool thanks

14:21:50 thestringpuller: you mean gmail vs thunderbird :P

14:21:52 nubbins`: thestringpuller: last office i worked in used lotus notes ;D

14:21:52 thestringpuller: (i kid)

14:21:53 mircea_popescu: nubbins` nice example nubsy. it's totally like outlook.

14:22:01 *: thestringpuller high fives nubbins`

14:22:06 thestringpuller: my last office used lotus too!

14:22:07 Namworld: [10:19] <mircea_popescu> thestringpuller namworld did it.

14:22:11 ReutersEmily: when you say, "log," BingoBoingo, you mean save records of every chat so you can go back and read it after?

14:22:16 bounce: reutersemily, mind a personal opinion question?

14:22:17 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily exactly.

14:22:31 nubbins`: thestringpuller: great for when you want your computer to freeze when opening an email

14:22:32 Namworld: Well technically I have yet to repay everyone, so, no, that's not yet a fact.

14:22:38 thestringpuller: :D

14:22:39 dexX7: this channel is logged anyway: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/

14:22:45 mircea_popescu: Namworld ah ? didn't know that. how much you still have out ?

14:22:47 thestringpuller: someone understands my pain

14:22:47 BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: Right. This channel has a log linked in the topic, but for other channels and conversations you depend on your client to keep logs for you

14:22:50 ReutersEmily: bounce no i don't mind

14:23:08 bounce: since you're covering fraud and stuff, what do you think about this stance that insider trading shouldn't be illegal?

14:23:16 Namworld: About 180 BTC, more or less. I would need to check.

14:23:29 nubbins`: that's a stance?!

14:23:38 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the real reason you want a client is that you can then install otr, which is a cryptographically secure plugin allowing you to have private conversations safe from any snoops. and that is good quality safety, not the sort of crud normally peddled.

14:23:56 dexX7: teach her

14:23:56 mircea_popescu: really if i had to talk to a ws whistleblower, thats what i'd use, or else pgp over email.

14:23:57 bounce: forgot who wrote the piece I remember reading, quick google tells me john carney and dylan matthews said things to that tune not too long ago

14:24:00 ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu I would love to do that

14:24:21 mircea_popescu: aite. lots to read, lots to absorb. pace yourself

14:24:23 ReutersEmily: bounce I think carney does think that

14:24:30 nubbins`: i tried to get a local CBC investigative reporter set up w/ pgp

14:24:32 nubbins`: it didn't really take

14:24:44 LordPutin: that's terrible Namworld i feelforyou

14:24:50 mircea_popescu: hey, bounce has good q's.

14:24:57 bounce: well that's clear enough. :)

14:25:01 ReutersEmily: ok so regarding that insider trading question

14:25:06 mircea_popescu: Namworld but you were about 2k at the top right ?

14:25:30 Namworld: 2k? No, never over 500 BTC.

14:25:51 ReutersEmily: i guess the people who think insider trading shouldn't be illegal argue that if you can work hard for the advantage--ie get contacts inside a company to leak you stuff or whatever, you deserve the competitive advantage?

14:25:56 mircea_popescu: a ok

14:26:01 Namworld: I think you're thinking of something else.

14:26:12 ReutersEmily: but the opposite view is that it makes the markets totally unfair

14:26:26 ReutersEmily: how could joe schmoe with an eTrade account ever compete

14:26:37 BingoBoingo: I rather hope the SEC decides to be friends http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/?ref=17sTosfHxNzGD4VUP3pjoHCEVofzSEcL95

14:26:39 nubbins`: as an investor, i'd be pretty sore if an officer of the company in which i invested started telling his buddies when to sell

14:26:39 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well the better opposite view is that it's really not against the people working at companies' interest to allow that "hard work" to fruit, as opposed to the interest of the actual companies.

14:26:49 ReutersEmily: i guess, without offering too much of an opinion since I am a journalist and not supposed to have any, i would add that the markets aren't fair anyway

14:27:14 Namworld: Information on the market is assymetric everywhere else, almost. I don't see why force it for securities.

14:27:44 mircea_popescu: Namworld this is exactly the equivalent of "why regulate psychoactives" debate. because if you can you must, and if it's legal to do amphetamines companies will start mandating their employees do it.

14:28:01 bounce: difference between having an opinion and letting it colour your writing, which could well be a challenge to separate.

14:28:02 mircea_popescu: unless you want to live in a world of socialised dope care, it'll have to stay illegal.

14:28:23 ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu you're right it also does affect the stability of a company's stock price theoretically when you have insider activity

14:28:25 nubbins`: socialised dope care

14:28:38 bounce: but anyway, thanks.

14:28:58 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i wouldn't want to be in any board where the ceo goes "well icahn just offered me 50mn, what you guys got"

14:29:06 ReutersEmily: bounce have you heard of Steve Cohen?

14:29:11 mircea_popescu: because i'd likely just start screaming and overturning tables.

14:29:56 Namworld: No, it's not like saying you must mandate it, you can't mandate assymetry, it naturally occurs.

14:30:31 ReutersEmily: if insider trading were legal we would have an even deeper gap between have and have nots

14:30:35 bounce: the name popped up in a wonkblog piece I googled just now; could well be the one I read earlier. name didn't stick, but he got done for insider trading.

14:30:42 dexX7: mpex as sro.. would this also imply things like the rota project? http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/

14:30:46 ReutersEmily: bounce

14:30:55 nubbins`: ah, the rota

14:30:57 ReutersEmily: he sort of got done in but sort of not

14:30:58 ReutersEmily: yeah

14:30:59 nubbins`: kinda sad i missed out on that

14:31:03 mircea_popescu: dexX7 perhaps. though the rota project as originally designed proved unworkable. it'd have to be worked on.

14:31:17 ReutersEmily: anyway, Cohen said in a deposition a few years ago he thought insider trading rules were "vague"

14:31:20 dexX7: yes, but i really like the idea.

14:31:26 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily now that they are.

14:31:41 mircea_popescu: dexX7 i do think there's something there myself. just, you know... apparently it also burns.

14:31:54 dexX7: i read it :p

14:31:54 bounce: hard to see how they would not be

14:32:49 ReutersEmily: well they're pretty straightforward in that you have to have a tipper and a tipee, and the tipee has to know that the tipper is getting a personal benifit in exchange for giving out inside info

14:33:23 ReutersEmily: so actually mircea_popescu i am sure i can find this on your site too but how do you keep people from insider trading on MPEx?

14:33:29 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily you've followed the cases in the past few years, since it's your beat. would you say in each and every one it was your opinion that the actions as decided by either sec or courts were in fact correct ?

14:33:41 mircea_popescu: i don't, mostly because i can't.

14:34:34 Namworld: But at the same time, if you need to work hard to earn through Business, why shouldn't those who have information through working hard not trade on it? Why prevent use of such information? I would perhaps only agree to go against management insider trading in case of catastrophic scenario (undeclared losses/bankruptcy), where management would probably both have ruined the company and

14:34:34 Namworld: yet cleared the orderbook.

14:34:41 ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu regarding cases brought over the past few years....of the 79 criminal insider trading cases brought by Manhattan federal prosecutor, not one has ended in an acquittal

14:34:45 Namworld: But never prevent insider trading on the buying side.

14:34:52 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i asked for your own call.

14:34:52 thestringpuller: http://i.imgur.com/gE8hDnY.jpg

14:35:05 mircea_popescu: consider for instance the outrageous case of the swiss heinz options traders.

14:35:15 nubbins`: thestringpuller +1

14:35:18 ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu i know. i don't know each of the cases well enough to be able to say they were "all correct"

14:35:33 nubbins`: "so are you gonna cash out when btc hits <arbitrary large number>?"

14:35:37 Namworld: But I haven't had time to think about this topic in details to form a specific or resilient opinion of the matter.

14:35:40 nubbins`: "i won't have to"

14:35:51 ReutersEmily: but of the cases i did cover closely i never saw a defendant i thought was wrongly accused.

14:36:03 mircea_popescu: nubbins` fuck, i could have said that. who beat me to the punch ?

14:36:10 nubbins`: morpheus apparently

14:36:13 nubbins`: see tsp's link

14:36:14 mircea_popescu: that is EXACTLY the point. go morpheus.

14:36:19 mod6: :)

14:36:31 nubbins`: i was actually explaining this to my mother yesterday

14:36:41 mircea_popescu: i was actually explaining this to a guy from wired yesterday

14:36:44 nubbins`: she said ":0"

14:36:48 nubbins`: heh.

14:36:52 nubbins`: did he say :0?

14:37:03 mircea_popescu: "o x y z won't invest in btc" "dude, it matters not if they do it directly or tyhrough n layers abstracting it from you, it's still what's going on"

14:37:27 mircea_popescu: nubbins` he said "i shall ponder this over tea"

14:37:32 *: nubbins` spits

14:37:46 nubbins`: poor guy ;(

14:38:36 ReutersEmily: i lost you guys on that last little bit

14:38:43 ReutersEmily: maybe it's because i haven't seen the matrix

14:38:46 nubbins`: heh.

14:38:48 mod6: wat

14:39:06 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: a common question is "so will you cash out all your btc when it reaches <large usd value>?"

14:39:08 nullp: exit

14:39:11 nubbins`: which begs the question a bit

14:39:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06301302 = 0.126 BTC [+]

14:39:18 Namworld: Well it's pretty much what's said in the movie, edited a bit to include Bitcoin.

14:39:30 nubbins`: since if btc has reached a large usd value, it would be because you can actually use it as currency in a great many places

14:39:32 ReutersEmily: as in, people asumme you're going to get "out" of bitcoin

14:39:37 ReutersEmily: instead of continuing to function in it

14:39:55 ReutersEmily: and that is what you were trying to explain to the wired guy who had to go and drink tea and think about it afterwards?

14:39:56 nubbins`: for example: if 1btc=$1m, i wouldn't need to "cash out" because i could just as easily spend my btc at walmart

14:40:03 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily instead of everyone else having to get in, wanting or not.

14:40:06 Namworld: So yeah, if BTC is ever worth a fortune each, there will probably be no need to trade them for cash, they'll probably be widely accepted by then for them to have appreciated that much..

14:40:16 ReutersEmily: ok i get it

14:40:22 nubbins`: the implication being that widespread acceptance is the only thing that will lead to sustained high value

14:40:38 ReutersEmily: yeah that makes sense

14:40:46 mircea_popescu: check out how confusing irc can be!

14:40:48 nubbins`: it's a bit of an "a-ha moment"

14:40:50 mircea_popescu: it gets worse, too.

14:40:52 ReutersEmily: then maybe people will just be asking if you are going to get out the trading

14:41:08 ReutersEmily: like the way you talk about hedge fund guys who make zillions and could retire at 40

14:41:14 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: in my experience, those who day trade don't really hold long-term, and vice versa

14:41:26 Namworld: That would make more sense, at least for those that daytrade.

14:41:27 mircea_popescu: i would agree. there's about a million btc represented here,

14:41:34 nubbins`: for example, i don't day trade, and i don't think most others here do either

14:41:36 mircea_popescu: of which i doubt very much is traded on any sort of a daily basis.

14:42:17 ReutersEmily: have you all met in real life?

14:42:33 Namworld: 1 million? In here? Hmm... Perhaps.

14:42:40 nubbins`: i've met none of these people in real life, and don't have any plans to

14:42:50 nubbins`: altho i think a fair number of people in here will be hitting up the conference

14:42:51 mircea_popescu: nubbins` does that make you a shut in ?

14:43:00 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: only on irc ;D

14:43:07 mircea_popescu: so a shut irc

14:43:15 nubbins`: not much of a ring to it

14:43:17 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i've met a few, but as a general rule no.

14:43:20 Namworld: Some have met some of the people in this channel. Although there's currently over an hundred participant and it varies a lot from day to day.

14:43:42 nubbins`: i met people from irc only once in my life, and it was pretty goddamn weird

14:43:44 mircea_popescu: ;;seen nefario

14:43:44 gribble: nefario was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 25 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 43 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <nefario> Those assets are not listed or traded anymore

14:43:45 nubbins`: this was maybe 12 years ago

14:43:55 Namworld: I haven't met anyone in this channel in person. At least not knowingly. But I haven't attended any Bitcoin related event to start with.

14:43:56 mircea_popescu: now that guy, who was running glbse, met a bunch of these folks irl.

14:44:11 nubbins`: well ya know. successful scammers shake hands

14:44:19 nubbins`: what a word for hands that starts with S?

14:45:07 mircea_popescu: i like gribble's precision at any rate. it was x y z and 45 seconds ago.

14:45:09 Namworld: Nefario returned most BTC, decided to screw it for the remainder and disappear.

14:45:09 ReutersEmily: so...Reuters is just getting into the coverage of bitcoin....do you guys have buring questions you'd like to see answered in a mainstream press article?

14:45:25 radan: what is the future of bitcoin

14:45:29 nubbins`: heh.

14:45:30 radan: is bitcoin even real

14:45:31 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily if you manage to idle here you'll get the scoops as they happen.

14:45:38 nubbins`: ReutersEmily ^

14:45:41 Namworld: I think that's been covered too much, radan.

14:45:42 radan: how many of these dang bitcoins are there anyway

14:45:46 mircea_popescu: pretty much all the major stories broke here, often days early

14:46:00 ThickerThanThiev: so much log to catch up on...

14:46:04 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com is the morning newspaper for happenings in this space

14:46:09 mircea_popescu: ThickerThanThiev o hey, neobee is in there.

14:46:19 nubbins`: lots of cruft, but diamonds hidden in the rough

14:46:39 chetty: I'd love to see the press stick a knife in the "bitcoin is a ponzi" meme

14:46:40 Namworld: Well true, events are usually known in Bitcoin IRC channels days before they make the news outlets.

14:46:45 mircea_popescu: qualifications for journalism these days. "must be young and like to read"

14:47:13 BingoBoingo: ThickerThanThiev: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#571830

14:47:15 Namworld: News people don't seem to hang on IRC too much, although who knows, maybe some of those silent people are from some news outlets.

14:47:22 nubbins`: Namworld you'd hope so

14:47:23 mircea_popescu: chetty that's a cute one. i recently saw a reference to the beanie babies. conveniently failing to mention that this thing's been going for five years, and dropped precipitously three times at least

14:47:33 dexX7: Namworld: too much noise usually

14:48:01 ReutersEmily: well one thing we have a hard time with is how to verify stuff that is said or posted on these forums

14:48:03 Namworld: Yes, that and they don't have much time to allocate to Bitcoin either.

14:48:13 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily give an example.

14:48:13 only_: ReutersEmily: something like "will MP get away with running an unregulated stock exchange on the interwebz?" that would be nice.

14:48:26 radan: dr. popescu, what do you think of coinbase

14:48:28 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: the best you can do re: verification is to verify who's saying things.

14:48:48 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: this channel -- and a few others -- have identification features that are useful to this end

14:48:50 mircea_popescu: radan i never used them. people ocasionally call scam but it doesn't usually seem to be the case.

14:48:50 ReutersEmily: well like some of the Mt Gox stuff that came out - that leaked crisis plan - and then the back-office stuff

14:48:51 radan: I have a few btc with them, and I'm not sure whether it's secure

14:48:58 ThickerThanThiev: [23:52] <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves you drew that shit ?! /// Not quite, I modified what Pink Eye created into that version. Maybe one day I'll put up my own portfolio again...

14:48:58 mircea_popescu: unless the price moves sharply against them they'll prolly be ok.

14:49:11 Namworld: nubbins', to the press, that's not going to be enough unless it's firsthand from the business' owner if it's about a Bitcoin business.

14:49:11 mircea_popescu: you're always best advised to keep your own wallets.

14:49:16 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: regarding that leaked crisis plan, did you see the actual PDF? with the "redactions" on the financials page?

14:49:32 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily that stuff was always regarded as dubious

14:49:40 mircea_popescu: but people accepted it as an "well... gotta talk of something"

14:49:48 ReutersEmily: i don't remember off teh top of my head what format that was in because it was my colleagues in Japan who took a close look at that

14:50:10 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: you might be interested to know that the guy who "leaked" the document -- selkis, i think -- actually did the redactions himself

14:50:13 Namworld: True, hard to verify when you don't have your own balance to verify against the leaked info (re hacked accoutns details).

14:50:21 Namworld: Or leaked crisis plan.

14:50:33 nubbins`: which led me to believe that he sort of made the whole document up, and it got traction, so gox figured "now's as good a time as any"

14:50:50 hdbuck: did Magicaltux hang out in here?

14:50:52 mircea_popescu: nubbins` this is definitely a possibility.

14:51:04 mircea_popescu: the other being that he's ver's sock and just you know... came up with something.

14:51:11 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: i can't think of any other reason for a document leaker to modify the documents he's leaking.

14:51:18 nubbins`: ah, sure

14:51:24 mircea_popescu: well the guy is kinda attention-seeking.

14:51:28 nubbins`: no kidding.

14:51:34 ReutersEmily: roger?

14:51:37 mircea_popescu: so you know, who knows what goes on in the narcissist head.

14:51:41 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily yes.

14:51:43 nubbins`: roger sounds right

14:52:09 Namworld: Well at least hanging in here could at least provide info about where to look for verifying soon to be news before it happens.

14:52:24 mircea_popescu: anyway ReutersEmily the verification of such things is a fuzzy affair at best. you end up weighting things, who said what who they work with who trusts them and why etc.

14:52:24 nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/NrGdYfc.png

14:52:30 mircea_popescu: a web of trust sort of scenario.

14:52:32 BingoBoingo: That whole foundation crowd really is just a wash.

14:52:37 ReutersEmily: yeah i will hang in here. i can't believe 2 hours have gone by since i got to work and this is what i've been doing the whole time - ha!

14:53:01 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily that's ok, you've barely scratched it :p

14:53:01 ReutersEmily: you mean the bitcoin foundation BingoBoingo?

14:53:17 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: keep this up and you'll join the clan of people who can afford to sit around on freenode all day ;D

14:53:19 Neil: More evidence that money in your bank isn't really yours:

14:53:20 Neil: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100012871/did-you-spot-this-budget-gives-hmrc-power-to-raid-your-bank-account-like-wonga/

14:53:36 BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: Yeah, they just really pump each other's dubious ventures and collect money they don't provide accounting for

14:53:51 nubbins`: bitcoin foundation is a bit of a lel.

14:54:30 nubbins`: what do you expect from a group of self-appointed wizards tho

14:54:33 ReutersEmily: what do you think of the Wall Street contingent in bitcoin, like SecondMarket?

14:55:09 Namworld: Even the public figures, there's distrust in them. Mostly because they tend to always have numerous ties with big scammers which keeps showing up in the public figures pool.

14:55:15 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily they're trying, but i think you probably know more in places by now than silbert does

14:55:43 ReutersEmily: does Silbert chat in here?

14:55:47 mircea_popescu: not afaik.

14:55:53 Namworld: SecondMarket fits its goal like intended, neither great nor bad.

14:56:20 mircea_popescu: Namworld well afaik they got burned pretty well in gox.

14:56:24 mircea_popescu: which is... whatever, kinda noobish.

14:56:31 BingoBoingo: The Wall Street contingent seems more honest, but they are going to have to go through growing pains

14:56:44 BingoBoingo: Learning the lessons other people learned much earlier

14:56:46 nubbins`: ^

14:57:04 ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu how do you know they got burned in gox?

14:57:09 only: SecondMarket held coins in gox? lol

14:57:13 dexX7: i doubt that

14:57:16 mircea_popescu: in other words, bitcoin is its own field. having a good fundamental basis in finance is a plus. a big one, perhaps,

14:57:17 nubbins`: EVERYONE held coins in gox

14:57:19 mircea_popescu: but it doesn't do your work for you.

14:57:26 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i hear things.

14:57:31 Namworld: Their problem, unlike Gox/others, they can deal. If they can't learn/adapt, they'll drop it.

14:57:34 nubbins`: well, i shouldn't say everyone

14:57:40 BingoBoingo: Much of the Bitcoin Foundation seems to be career hucksters of the Amway-franchisee sort.

14:57:40 nubbins`: but a lot of people who you'd think would know better.

14:57:41 chetty: not everyone nubbins'

14:58:03 mircea_popescu: nubbins` tell you what ? a lot of people who i'd think would know better had btc with pirate.

14:58:12 mircea_popescu: people be people. they tend to the flame.

14:58:20 mircea_popescu: as the great persian poet said.

14:58:31 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: it's hard trying to figure out how greedy to be, as the great nubs said

14:59:12 mircea_popescu: so you got burned in gox. coulda just have said that you know :D

14:59:20 nubbins`: nooooo, i never put a satoshi in gox

14:59:27 mircea_popescu: too late now.

14:59:43 nubbins`: my battle with greed was more focused on satoshidice and asicminer

15:00:02 ReutersEmily: ok guys....thank you so so much for being so nice to me and answering my questions. i am going to get on the phone in a minute so probably won't be able to pay as much attention in here, but i think i'll stay signed in

15:00:08 ReutersEmily: anyway thank you. i really appreciate your time.

15:00:08 mircea_popescu: yeah asicminer. when were they delivering the new things again ?

15:00:15 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily cheers.

15:00:22 nubbins`: ReutersEmily cheers

15:00:31 dexX7: almost ready to re: am

15:00:33 dexX7: cya

15:00:35 nubbins`: mircea_popescu who knows, i stopped keeping up with AM months ago

15:00:52 mircea_popescu: i thought it was just about now or something like that.

15:00:58 nubbins`: sounds familiar

15:00:59 mircea_popescu: anyway, ima go eat. don't break bitcoin meanwhile pls.

15:01:08 nubbins`: yah, i've got a busy day too

15:01:12 nubbins`: procrastinating here

15:01:18 nubbins`: gotta make bread AND sausages :D

15:01:48 Namworld: I think Silber was involved in Bitcoin way before SecondMarket thing if I'm not mistaken. Shame he doesn't hang out in the BTC channels.

15:02:51 Namworld: Different point of views are nice.

15:05:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22950 @ 0.00093089 = 21.3639 BTC [+]

15:10:45 nubbins`: anyone able to suggest a suitable marinade for moose steaks?

15:11:11 Duffer1: https://www.google.com/#q=marinade+for+moose

15:11:11 ozbot: Google

15:11:18 Duffer1: sounds good

15:11:54 nubbins`: nod

15:12:08 nubbins`: gonna go with the allrecipes beer/soya/dijon one

15:12:35 Duffer1: i was just reading that one

15:12:44 Duffer1: beer can make a surprisingly good marinade

15:12:54 nubbins`: nod. beer can chicken, even

15:13:08 nubbins`: not quite a marinade but y'know

15:13:28 Duffer1: not quite marinade but more than a seasoning

15:13:29 nubbins`: normally i get roast-style hunks of moose, but they're more like t-bones this time around

15:13:34 nubbins`: yeah

15:13:51 Duffer1: i've never had moose

15:13:54 nubbins`: it's nice

15:14:10 Duffer1: compared to deer?

15:14:13 nubbins`: never had deer

15:14:19 Duffer1: ah

15:14:29 nubbins`: it's slightly gamier and spicier than beef

15:14:32 nubbins`: and very lean

15:15:02 nubbins`: so lean that it's usually consumed ground, either in burgers, meatballs, or sausages

15:15:13 nubbins`: generally with pork fat

15:15:29 Namworld: Well that's lean lean

15:15:30 Duffer1: i'd love to try that

15:15:47 nubbins`: moose sausage is divine

15:16:13 nubbins`: this will actually be my first time eating moose steak

15:16:55 Duffer1: what are your sides?

15:17:03 ReutersEmily: omg i love moose sausage

15:17:10 ReutersEmily: are you in western canada?

15:17:19 nubbins`: ReutersEmily, eastern canada - newfoundland

15:17:25 ReutersEmily: oh - cool!

15:17:34 nubbins`: they brought two moose over here in the 1800s, didn't work out, so they brought over two more

15:17:38 nubbins`: now the island is covered in 'em :)

15:18:04 ReutersEmily: heh, seriously? i had no idea they were introduced

15:18:13 nubbins`: yep, invasive species

15:18:25 nubbins`: they're a real danger on the highways :D

15:18:52 ReutersEmily: oh gosh i can imagine...that would be the fastest way to turn your car into a convertible, hitting a moose

15:19:12 nubbins`: well the problem is that they're tall with skinny legs, so if you hit one, it's coming in through the windshield

15:19:47 nubbins`: and as much as i like moose, 1200lbs all at once is a bit too much ;)

15:20:51 nubbins`: Duffer1: not sure yet, but i'm thinking roasted potato and maybe asparagus

15:21:19 kakobrekla: what you get is a nonconvertible convertible

15:21:24 nubbins`: heh.

15:21:41 nubbins`: seriously tho, it's a real danger, to the point where some people have been calling for a widespread cull

15:22:01 nubbins`: "why do we value moose more than our children" etc

15:22:23 Duffer1: because moose are more delicious than children?

15:22:27 ReutersEmily: haha

15:22:38 ReutersEmily: so i would imagine there's a ton of moose hunting though right?

15:22:40 kakobrekla: have you tried children?

15:22:46 nubbins`: kakobrekla ;D

15:22:55 nubbins`: ReutersEmily: yep, i've never paid for any moose meat

15:23:07 nubbins`: it finds its way to the people who enjoy it

15:23:18 Duffer1: ha no nope not nooo

15:23:40 nubbins`: i've been considering getting a license, but having friends in rural communities is just as good, in practice

15:25:12 Duffer1: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524703.0

15:25:17 ozbot: [Now IPO on ripple]coinspaces.com-altcoin exchange shares

15:25:48 nubbins`: anyway, seriously gotta get moving. i've got ten pounds of pork shoulder to cut and grind, two loaves of bread to bake, and a ton of prep work in the studio

15:25:50 nubbins`: cheers

15:26:10 Duffer1: good luck ^.^

15:28:08 ReutersEmily: bye

15:28:37 mircea_popescu: btw, someone drop a link in #freenode so they know they've been useful.

15:28:50 hdbuck: really dont know what to think of ripple since everybody claims its a scam :/

15:28:51 mircea_popescu: if they can't figure out how to take donations at least let them have that satisfaction

15:30:32 mircea_popescu: <ReutersEmily> oh gosh i can imagine...that would be the fastest way to turn your car into a convertible, hitting a moose <<< bwagaga

15:30:40 mircea_popescu: so that's a first, she gets into the bash.

15:30:57 kakobrekla: too slow.

15:31:05 ReutersEmily: what does that mean?

15:31:22 Duffer1: http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/

15:31:23 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash

15:31:56 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily a bash is an old internet tradition, a collection of striking, funny or just memorable quotes

15:32:36 ReutersEmily: oh - cool

15:32:43 mircea_popescu: http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=89

15:32:44 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash

15:32:48 mircea_popescu: seems you were alrwady in there tho.

15:33:07 ReutersEmily: because of your "what did you order" comment

15:33:17 mircea_popescu: hey, i'm an enabler.

15:33:21 mircea_popescu: i make other people's shit work.

15:33:47 spam_mania: hello

15:34:16 ReutersEmily: indeed

15:34:26 mircea_popescu: did anyone else notice nubsy sounds just like a girl in a 1950s strict household ?

15:34:33 Duffer1: ReutersEmily: who runs havelock? >> The Panama Fund SA (no idea what that means or who's behind it, I suspect Voorhees is related somehow)

15:34:39 ThickAsThieves: Such log

15:34:41 ThickAsThieves: I made it

15:34:44 ThickAsThieves: good day

15:34:44 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 srsly ? why ?

15:34:53 Duffer1: cause panama

15:34:56 dexX7: your daily dose of -asset gossip, eh? ;)

15:34:57 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves how long did it take you ?

15:35:04 ThickAsThieves: an hour or so?

15:35:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00331456 = 0.1359 BTC [+] {3}

15:35:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07035515 = 1.4071 BTC [-] {5}

15:35:09 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 that's a point i guess.

15:35:16 Duffer1: i mean 'suspect' in the loosest, just pulled that outta my ass, sense

15:35:28 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves just wanted to get it on the record for 2016, when it'll be like the 10k btc pizza.

15:35:29 ReutersEmily: so - i just downloaded HexChat and if I just click out of this window, will I be able to put ReutersEmily into "nickname" and have it work?

15:35:36 ThickAsThieves: ReutersEmily, I can offer some insight on Havelock and Neo, but I am not an official representative for either.

15:35:43 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily possibly not

15:35:47 mircea_popescu: best to register your nick first.

15:35:51 mircea_popescu: do you know how to use nickserv ?

15:35:57 ReutersEmily: ThickAsThieves I'd love to hear your thoughts.

15:36:06 ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu I don't know what nickserv is

15:36:24 mircea_popescu: http://www.wikihow.com/Register-a-User-Name-on-Freenode

15:36:24 ozbot: How to Register a User Name on Freenode: 7 Steps (with Pictures)

15:36:27 dexX7: ReutersEmily: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup

15:36:33 dexX7: lel

15:36:49 ThickAsThieves: Well, Havelock, we are told at least, we purchased by the Panama Fund. It, as far as I can tell, is run by the same person that runs CFIG.

15:36:52 Duffer1: it will allow you to keep your nick across any freenode irc chan

15:37:07 ThickAsThieves: we = was

15:37:17 LordPutin: agent smith runs havelock

15:37:54 ThickAsThieves: CFIG is listed on Havelock.

15:38:06 ThickAsThieves: I'm not sure if its actually done anything itself.

15:38:35 ThickAsThieves: topace, is a contractor for the IT side of Havelock afaik.

15:39:01 LordPutin: didn't you useto represent neobee tat...at the start?

15:39:15 ThickAsThieves: only as a contractor

15:39:24 LordPutin: ahh k

15:39:50 ThickAsThieves: I have no authority to speak for them, but I have helped to deliver their messages

15:40:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000023 = 0.35 BTC [-]

15:40:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00331456 = 0.1989 BTC [+]

15:40:21 ThickAsThieves: Danny Brewster, the CEO, is generally easy to reach though.

15:41:06 ThickAsThieves: They issued an updated prospectus, and afaik, will release updated finanicial projections this week. I am not clear whether they we will include a report of current accounts. I assume it will.

15:41:25 dexX7: ^ TAT is an asset issuer on HL

15:42:11 ThickAsThieves: Yes, I have represented ASICMINER depositary receipts and issued, and made whole, a successful bitcoin bond.

15:42:32 ThickAsThieves: I don't run any of them anymore though.

15:42:45 hdbuck: tat why? got bored?

15:42:52 ThickAsThieves: Grew up.

15:43:44 ThickAsThieves: My confidence in ASICMINER exposing me to liability was justifiably compromised over time.

15:43:57 ReutersEmily: huh it looks like HexChat is trying to connect me to freenode but it says connection failed...a couple of times

15:44:02 LordPutin: i thinkitsover forasicminer

15:44:21 LordPutin: theyreally messed things up

15:44:33 ThickAsThieves: that's not even clear, not even to the board

15:44:47 ThickAsThieves: part of the problem really

15:45:05 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily if it's trying to connect you on this same name it'd prolly fail as the name's already in use.

15:45:05 ThickAsThieves: there's a whole story in there i may write up some day

15:45:13 ReutersEmily: Oh i see

15:45:21 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well why not today ?

15:45:41 mircea_popescu: meanwhile http://www.utro.ru/2008/12/26/peredovica/

15:45:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^

15:45:47 ThickAsThieves: well how to write while IRCing?

15:45:50 ThickAsThieves: :)

15:46:02 mircea_popescu: touchtyping!

15:46:12 mircea_popescu: you lean over and touch on someone who's typing

15:46:21 ThickAsThieves: basically i really need to get a blog going

15:46:37 mircea_popescu: i took mp's advice and started one earlier.

15:46:49 Duffer1: ;;gpg info ReutersEmily

15:46:49 gribble: No such user registered.

15:46:59 Duffer1: too soon? ^.^

15:47:02 LordPutin: idliketosee atatblog

15:47:31 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 probably tomorrow's job :p

15:47:31 LordPutin: ireallyneed a new spacebar

15:47:56 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you could call it Tit for Tat, and have a nice shapely round tit in the header.

15:48:00 thestringpuller: ReutersEmily: so you're getting paid to be on irc right now? lol

15:48:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'technologies of controlled chaos'. subject more or less beaten to death in the russian world.

15:48:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so much in english

15:48:13 ThickAsThieves: Don't we all get paid to be here?

15:48:21 ReutersEmily: thestringpuller yeah i think that's funny too

15:48:24 mircea_popescu: i don't ;/

15:48:30 mircea_popescu: nobody's ever paying me to do anything.

15:48:32 rithm: vir quisque vir

15:48:37 rithm: tit for tat my ass

15:48:46 LordPutin: you'rerich enough anyway mircea u dontneedtogetpaid

15:48:54 rithm: y y guys talk so much

15:48:58 rithm: hu huh

15:49:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik, pretty much the only one who's put in the sweat to explain it in english is orlov

15:49:06 Duffer1: you're in the right chan for sure reutersemily this chan spawn enough material to sustain multiple daily blogs

15:49:08 ThickAsThieves: I feel like I'm paid to be here.

15:49:16 ThickAsThieves: When really we should all be PAYING

15:49:16 LordPutin: oprah cleans yourtoilets

15:49:18 mircea_popescu: rithm and who might you be ?

15:49:27 rithm: yo mamma

15:49:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly so yeah

15:49:48 rithm: i'm gawker

15:49:54 rithm: i like to write things

15:49:56 mircea_popescu: you're a gawker moar like it.

15:50:09 *: rithm goes back to gawking

15:50:21 LordPutin: so tat can you give some insight what you're workingon atm?

15:50:54 ThickAsThieves: as mentioned before, i'm still trying to decide.

15:51:09 mircea_popescu: o hey, tat sounds like a girl in a loose 1970s household.

15:51:12 mircea_popescu: we got it all.

15:51:31 ThickAsThieves: I have a few paths to consider, but none seem to be the obvious choice.

15:51:54 BingoBoingo: rithm: From Gawker?

15:51:56 hdbuck: I'd like some insights on Havelock & AM since i happen to deal with both simultaneously ^^

15:52:04 LordPutin: what areyouroptions oristhat confidental?

15:52:11 rithm: BingoBoingo stop nick highlighting me sometimes i lie on the internet

15:52:15 ThickAsThieves: really the one pulling me is to backpack across europe... but I have a wife.

15:52:23 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's jcpham

15:52:29 BingoBoingo: Ah

15:52:47 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so send her postcards.

15:53:08 chetty: TAT: so take her along

15:53:33 LordPutin: wife? sorryto hear that bro

15:53:47 mircea_popescu: chetty yeah, even better

15:53:51 ThickAsThieves: well she has a more traditional career, and newly scored a dream job in endangered specis conservation.

15:53:55 ThickAsThieves: species*

15:54:27 ThickAsThieves: so at best maybe we'll get regular trips to the Congo :/

15:54:34 chetty: TAT: so backpack thru some deserts and jungles

15:54:45 ThickAsThieves: I'm not interested in such

15:54:48 LordPutin: endagered species like a straight bitcoiner?

15:54:49 mircea_popescu: o yeah, backpacking throgh the congo outbush.

15:54:51 mircea_popescu: that's happening.

15:55:23 mircea_popescu: spend a day with the machete to go from the house ot the garage

15:55:32 LordPutin: going through europe sounds good you might evenmake some connections or findwhat you're looking for in the world

15:55:39 ThickAsThieves: and then get raped and killed by poachers

15:55:42 Namworld: thestringpuller, she's probably paid to talk with people all the time. I don't see why that would exclude chatting session with relevant people to an article, like Mircea. Which happens to be mostly talking only in this channel, as he seems to have made his online residence here.

15:56:07 Namworld: So probably not too strange.

15:56:09 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves not even necessarily in that order.

15:56:14 ThickAsThieves: indeed

15:56:55 ThickAsThieves: western conservation reservations in the congo have been pillages in such ways just so rebels could make a point to unrelated parties

15:57:01 ThickAsThieves: pillaged*

15:57:11 mircea_popescu: well, that and the rape.

15:57:18 ThickAsThieves: yeah

15:57:31 LordPutin: my goal is tto video interview mircea oneday, i hope to achieve it

15:57:39 rithm: bad idea

15:57:45 rithm: he'll burn a koran

15:57:52 ThickAsThieves: http://www.bonoboincongo.com/2012/07/03/okapi-attack-sends-shock-waves-through-the-ituri-forest/

15:58:09 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily so anyway, what's the story with this Bob Dobalina ?

15:58:39 ThickAsThieves: "For an entire day scenes of horror and panic ripped through Epulu. Many people fled into the forest, others were taken hostage to carry the loot of the attackers. Women were raped. Seven people were killed. Among the dead are two park guards and the wife of another. Two of these were burned. Some reported that Amisi’s wife was burned alive, perhaps caught in the chaos as the outlaws

15:58:39 ThickAsThieves: incinerated park infrastructure and guard homes. Others seemed shot almost at random: Two people on a truck passing through Epulu, two other Epulu residents."

15:58:58 ThickAsThieves: Mr. Dobalina, Mr. Bob Dobalina

15:59:03 mircea_popescu: o jesus, some obscure cultural reference. i thought must be some junior senator or w/e. a square is me.

15:59:09 ReutersEmily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFieSQHmQT0

15:59:10 ozbot: Del Tha Funkee Homosapien - Mistadobalina (Video Version) - YouTube

15:59:18 ThickAsThieves: I like me some Del

15:59:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.41085150 BTC to 4`075 shares, 59162 satoshi per share

15:59:33 LordPutin: new deltron record was abit wack tho

15:59:40 ThickAsThieves: yeah i skipped it after the previews

15:59:47 ThickAsThieves: the original is classic tho

15:59:52 LordPutin: agreed

15:59:56 LordPutin: very classic

16:01:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0706 = 0.1412 BTC [+]

16:01:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 50.96337928 BTC to 80`674 shares, 63172 satoshi per share

16:01:34 ReutersEmily: same album as Mistadobalina also features a wonderful song called "What Is A Booty"

16:02:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0654996 = 0.1965 BTC [+]

16:02:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6076 @ 0.00093149 = 5.6597 BTC [+]

16:03:08 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/ReutersJamie/status/447022012318244866

16:03:08 ozbot: Twitter / ReutersJamie: Those sanctions really having ...

16:03:20 mircea_popescu: this reminds me of an older mp article, re how the market knows who will win any conflict.

16:03:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07298999 = 0.219 BTC [+]

16:03:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06549985 = 0.131 BTC [+] {2}

16:04:14 LordPutin: itsa warm safe place that protects you against fear

16:05:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 50 @ 0.070576 = 3.5288 BTC [-] {2}

16:06:08 ThickAsThieves: "I am starting to think that this "China" news is just a tactic to make the price drop."

16:06:16 ThickAsThieves: quick, these reddites

16:06:19 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: turns out the 50's housewives were running the show and just letting the men think they did ;)

16:06:30 mircea_popescu: there's an excellently superb quote in that link benkay pasted yest.

16:06:58 mircea_popescu: "I was flattered by his interest, so I thought it over. That is, I indulged

16:06:58 mircea_popescu: in what young men frequently mistake for thought. In imagination, I saw my

16:06:58 mircea_popescu: name over the door and myself in a fine glass office looking out and

16:06:58 mircea_popescu: watching clerks taking in money. I had, in anticipation, the thrill of

16:06:58 mircea_popescu: buying one store after another and going from town to town on tours of

16:06:59 mircea_popescu: inspection. I tickled my fancy with the idea of coming back to college and

16:07:01 mircea_popescu: letting the boys consult me as an experienced man of affairs. And having

16:07:03 mircea_popescu: finished this process of "thinking" I wired Carroll that I was ready to

16:07:05 mircea_popescu: join him."

16:07:25 mircea_popescu: so... yeah. he's starting to "think".

16:07:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07298999 = 0.146 BTC [+]

16:07:42 mircea_popescu: nubbins` yeah. they and those chicks of epulu.

16:08:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07298999 = 0.5839 BTC [+]

16:09:35 ThickAsThieves: The commissioner of the Texas State Securities Board issued an emergency order last week barring a private energy exploration company from accepting investments in bitcoin from non-accredited investors. The company, Balanced Energy LLC, allegedly solicited investors at the Texas Bitcoin Conference on March 6th with the statements “we don’t do any verification” and “we’re not

16:09:36 ThickAsThieves: the paperwork police,” and informed interested parties that capital contributions in bitcoin would be accepted.

16:09:52 ThickAsThieves: and you thought Havelock was bad

16:10:04 ThickAsThieves: these guys are doing worse on a stage

16:10:07 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:10:25 mircea_popescu: well obviously its a sliding scale.

16:10:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07000023 = 1.05 BTC [-] {3}

16:10:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52400 @ 0.00093677 = 49.0867 BTC [+] {2}

16:11:08 mircea_popescu: personally, i blame the bitcoin foundation, and murck especially.

16:11:18 ThickAsThieves: interesting to finally see a bitcoin securities article in the bitcoin "community" media

16:11:31 mircea_popescu: their completely clueless, "let's do the motions" calisthenic approach to things is going to get a lot of young men as per the quote above in a lot of trouble

16:11:37 ThickAsThieves: the BF is scourge in most ways

16:11:52 LordPutin: i really hate bf

16:11:57 LordPutin: such scum

16:12:20 ThickAsThieves: the article http://bitcoinmagazine.com/11395/securities-registration-requirements-holding-bitcoin-back/

16:12:43 LordPutin: but at least they're taking the heat

16:12:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.61038917 = 3.0519 BTC [+] {5}

16:13:07 ThickAsThieves: "However, anecdotal accounts have suggested that many participants in successful Kickstarter campaigns ultimately receive nothing at all from the companies to which they contribute."

16:13:10 ThickAsThieves: is that true?

16:13:17 jborkl: I did see the booth there pimping oil and gas

16:13:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61098914 = 3.6659 BTC [+] {2}

16:13:50 ThickAsThieves: "At least one website, BitFunder.com, provided a centralized place to both solicit and offer shares in Bitcoin related startups before shutting down last fall. "

16:13:52 ThickAsThieves: wtf

16:13:57 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves its not anecdotal.

16:14:05 ThickAsThieves: THAT'S who gets a mention?

16:14:20 mircea_popescu: lol

16:14:27 jborkl: GLBSE should have been the headliner

16:14:35 mircea_popescu: the bitcoin ragazine ? what is surprising to you here ?

16:14:42 ThickAsThieves: lol and of cource an Ethereum plug follows shortly after

16:14:49 ThickAsThieves: "Further, the concept of self-executing contracts, powered by Ethereum, could take much of the risk of non-performance by managers of startups off the table. "

16:14:58 ThickAsThieves: course*

16:15:08 ThickAsThieves: ...

16:15:09 ThickAsThieves: ...

16:15:11 mircea_popescu: this is exactly the problem. they keep getting beaten to shit, they keep hopping right up again

16:15:14 mircea_popescu: because infinite hitpoints.

16:15:24 ThickAsThieves: oh wait

16:15:31 ThickAsThieves: they seal it with a big fat kiss

16:15:33 mircea_popescu: at least shrem had the minimal decency to admit he's wrong. vessenes will have to go to prison,

16:15:33 ThickAsThieves: "Given the technological sophistication of most Bitcoiners, equity crowdfunding with payment in bitcoins is undoubtedly a solid match."

16:15:35 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/03/compromised-comsec.htm

16:15:41 mircea_popescu: and he will go to prison still sprouting his delusional nonsense.

16:16:13 ThickAsThieves: bitcoinragazine has a sense of humor now?

16:17:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well apparently some people see right through it.

16:17:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not like it's hard

16:17:57 ThickAsThieves: so, to confirm, Tor is essentially useless, in regards to its original purpose, now?

16:18:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/447044579049873408

16:18:55 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves twas on fraudsters was it not.

16:19:07 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Has it ever been useful for its stated purpose?

16:19:13 ThickAsThieves: i have no idea

16:19:37 ThickAsThieves: i asssumed it once worked as intended

16:19:37 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: tor is great because any kid can set up his own nsa, vacuuming up the packets of 'seekoore' idiots. i'll leave it at that.

16:20:07 ThickAsThieves: but i guess that window was very small and closed long ago

16:20:17 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/

16:20:17 ozbot: Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

16:20:20 ThickAsThieves: if it was ever a window at all

16:20:32 asciilifeform: ;;google tor exit sweden

16:20:33 gribble: Dan Egerstad's Tor exit nodes get him arrested and proves a point I ...: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/berlind/dan-egerstads-tor-exit-nodes-get-him-arrested-and-proves-a-point-i-made-in-july/900; Swedish Researchers Uncover Dirty Tor Exit Relays: http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/malicious-tor-exit-relays-136828; Tips for Running an Exit Node with Minimal Harassment | The Tor (1 more message)

16:21:16 mircea_popescu: not exactly a secret in any sense, except for the reddit crowd.

16:21:33 radan: so, dr. popescu

16:21:43 mircea_popescu: why do you keep calling me dr. btw ?

16:21:47 ThickAsThieves: mircea, do you have any earned titles?

16:21:53 mircea_popescu: well... baron ?

16:21:58 ThickAsThieves: yeah?

16:22:09 radan: you said you would explain how a turn for traditionalism is related to femininity

16:22:22 mircea_popescu: radan a, that was a previous discussion, did you read that log ?

16:22:37 radan: I did

16:22:48 BingoBoingo: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/03/21/iran_s_fake_aircraft_carrier_u_s_officials_say_iran_navy_might_blow_it_up.html

16:22:48 ozbot: Iran's fake aircraft carrier: U.S. officials say Iran Navy might blow it up for propaganda purposes.

16:22:50 mircea_popescu: ok. so i didn't read your "i wanna go to syria" as a "turn for traditionalism"

16:22:56 mircea_popescu: i read it simply as a desire to be hurt.

16:23:11 radan: well, young men have traditionally wanted to fight, and kill, since time immemorial

16:23:20 mircea_popescu: sure.

16:23:20 radan: modern society provides no outlet for this

16:23:25 mircea_popescu: not true.

16:23:41 mircea_popescu: you can start slinging dope downtown, you can join the marines, on it goes.

16:23:52 mircea_popescu: both the mob and the govt are always hiring.

16:23:54 ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure fighting and killing is the accurate distillation

16:24:05 radan: I'd rather not get arrested, and I'm well on my way towards getting a good degree

16:24:10 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but it seems to be his distillation nevertheless.

16:24:22 radan: if I can fight, I want to do it in defense of my people and for a cause I deem just

16:24:22 mircea_popescu: radan and you wish me to explain how all this is all about being a cunt ?

16:24:30 mircea_popescu: right right.

16:24:31 ThickAsThieves: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-divine-cunt/

16:24:33 ozbot: The Divine Cunt pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

16:24:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.611 BTC [+]

16:24:59 radan: I'm interested in your analysis

16:25:32 BingoBoingo: radan: Most nations with armed forces have some sort of Officer Candidate course that can be pursued after a degree

16:25:33 mircea_popescu: seems self-obvious, neh ? if you want to wear a skirt in the shape of a good degree or not being arrested, that's fine and dandy, but if you want to be a man you generallyt couldn't care less what you're wearing.

16:25:40 mircea_popescu: at least, that is the traditional view on the matter.

16:25:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61976742 = 1.2395 BTC [+]

16:26:19 radan: see, I don't think there's anything manly about dying for a ridiculous cause

16:26:30 radan: and most causes the US Army pursues are ridiculous

16:26:38 mircea_popescu: but what makes you suspect you;d know ?

16:26:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.0009405 = 6.7716 BTC [+]

16:26:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.62 = 2.48 BTC [+] {2}

16:27:01 ThickAsThieves: so what IS manly?

16:27:24 radan: in general, anything with high testosterone

16:27:28 ThickAsThieves: ...

16:27:29 radan: in this specific scenario

16:27:31 radan: to fight in defense of your people

16:27:39 radan: at least, that's what I think of it

16:27:39 mircea_popescu: you ever seen The Caine Mutiny ?

16:27:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05899899 = 0.295 BTC [+] {2}

16:28:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.06902187 = 1.1043 BTC [-] {3}

16:28:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.063001 = 0.126 BTC [+]

16:28:03 radan: so I value much more the syrian who goes to war for his people - on either side - than the US soldier

16:28:15 ThickAsThieves: btw I watched Gardens in the Night, turns out I had seen it before. it's awfully slow movie

16:28:19 ThickAsThieves: an

16:28:26 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it is slow.

16:28:58 radan: who signs his life and his family's future over for thirty talents

16:29:01 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves anyway, i like how between our two questions he picked to answer yours.

16:29:32 ThickAsThieves: and it wasnt even really an answer

16:29:45 radan: dr. popescu, the vagaries of the US army are well known the world over

16:29:47 mircea_popescu: that's a lot more debatable, not that i idsagree.

16:29:49 ThickAsThieves: what's manly? well man juice of course!

16:29:56 mircea_popescu: radan the "us army" are not your problem.

16:30:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.11950724 = 0.5975 BTC [-]

16:30:04 mircea_popescu: quoth Lt. Barney Greenwald: "Ah, you're learning, Willie! You're learning that you don't work with a captain because you like the way he parts his hair. You work with him because he's got the job or you're no good! "

16:30:12 radan: they would be if I joined them

16:30:16 BingoBoingo: radan: There's always the French foreign legion

16:30:19 radan: which is one of the reasons I'm not

16:30:19 mircea_popescu: no, tyhey whould not be

16:30:22 radan: the FFL is full of arabs

16:30:26 radan: and criminals

16:30:27 mircea_popescu: not unless they call you a general chief of staff

16:30:39 ThickAsThieves: does one really even choose to join the US Army?

16:30:45 ThickAsThieves: it's more likely baked into a man

16:30:53 mircea_popescu: hm

16:30:58 radan: the French use them as cannon fodder in colonial hellholes

16:31:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06201001 = 0.124 BTC [-] {2}

16:31:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00094037 = 2.8211 BTC [-]

16:31:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899899 = 0.118 BTC [+]

16:31:05 radan: I say the French

16:31:13 radan: I mean sarkozy and his oligarch bunch

16:31:26 mircea_popescu: you know the communists took over meanwhile ?

16:31:32 radan: where?

16:31:34 radan: France?

16:31:37 mircea_popescu: well yes.

16:31:38 BingoBoingo: Yeah

16:31:50 chetty: from the female standpoint = taking up arms beyond your own needs does not make you a man

16:31:51 radan: hollande is prime minister, now

16:31:59 mircea_popescu: anyway, being a man is all about fighting and getting killed for the proper oligarch.

16:32:12 nubbins`: chetty +1

16:32:15 mircea_popescu: this bullshit where you find fault with the world belongs with the skirts in a cramped greenwich village coffee house.

16:32:33 radan: the contry is run as it has been for an eternity by unelected bureaucrats and "rootless cosmopolitans"

16:32:45 mircea_popescu: uh

16:32:52 mircea_popescu: you can say jews you know, nobody cares.

16:32:59 chetty: the country? you mean the world

16:33:11 radan: France more so than many other places

16:33:22 hdbuck: +1 ^^

16:33:24 radan: I think they have very little leeway over North Korea and Iran, for example

16:33:36 radan: which may be the reason those countries are so vilified lately

16:33:38 mircea_popescu: wasn't khomeini jewish ?

16:34:05 nubbins`: did i ever tell you guys about the client who insisted on "eco-friendly" (6.25%!) garments flown in from the other side of the continent rather than choosing local garments for half the price?

16:34:27 nubbins`: well this supplier they insisted on choosing fucked the order royally, and the remainder of it showed up today, 21 days late

16:34:35 nubbins`: the word "organic" isn't even on the tags anywhere

16:34:46 nubbins`: imagine, paying an extra ten dollars per shirt for the word "earth"

16:35:06 mircea_popescu: people pay an extra ten bitcoins per site for the words "bestest ever"...

16:35:07 nubbins`: my sides, etc

16:35:15 chetty: probably a lot more pollution too, transport and all

16:35:24 nubbins`: chetty: massively larger carbon footprint

16:35:28 nubbins`: but y'know, "organic"

16:35:38 nubbins`: "nature"

16:35:52 mircea_popescu: i wonder if they ever genetically engineer a colony of bacteria that knits

16:36:08 nubbins`: she was given the choice between a minimal environmental impact and the appearance of one, and she chose the latter

16:36:09 mircea_popescu: or maybe really small spiders.

16:36:14 nubbins`: STOP IT

16:36:30 mircea_popescu: imagine nubs : underwear you could eat

16:36:33 mircea_popescu: and so silky smooth...

16:36:35 chetty: sure, nanobots

16:36:42 nubbins`: you can already buy edible undies

16:36:49 nubbins`: but would ya really eat a pair? ;(

16:36:49 mircea_popescu: yes but not nearly as disgusting.

16:36:52 nubbins`: http://xkcd.com/790/

16:36:52 ozbot: xkcd: Control

16:37:01 nubbins`: ^ spiders and lsd in the same comic!

16:37:05 nubbins`: worlds collide

16:37:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 264 @ 0.00328036 = 0.866 BTC [+] {7}

16:37:22 radan: my philosophy goes like this.

16:37:27 radan: the current system of governance and finance, media and education, is dominated by a people hostile to my own

16:37:33 radan: any interaction I have with this society can only benefit them to our detriment

16:37:39 mircea_popescu: radan which are your own ?

16:37:39 radan: as a result

16:37:42 nubbins`: gone again, gotta track down sausage casings

16:37:44 radan: I don't see anything manly, or even beneficial in a feminine way, from sticking with it

16:38:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 5736 @ 0.00383393 = 21.9914 BTC [+] {48}

16:38:18 LordPutin: we need to get rid of women also

16:38:29 LordPutin: so can just hang out with our guy friends all day

16:38:38 chetty: radan there are many ways to buck the system, hang around here for a bit

16:39:06 radan: I'm Bulgarian, but nationality's a social construct. when I say "my people" I'm using it as a shorthand for people genetically close to me

16:39:39 radan: and anyway I study in the United States

16:39:59 radan: where the people are mixed beyond all belief

16:40:03 radan: and equally deluded

16:40:26 mircea_popescu: mkay. so saying "any interaction I have with this society can only benefit them to our detriment" is not only problematic seeing how you're away studying, but moreover a restatement of "x is invulnerable"

16:40:53 mircea_popescu: if you really believe that it'd seem your failure to reculturate is insanity.

16:41:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07000022 = 0.14 BTC [+]

16:41:45 mircea_popescu: besides, the best fucks i ever had were with people who weren't particularly genetically close to me.

16:41:48 mircea_popescu: don't limit yourself.

16:41:51 radan: I think the combined force of 15 million merchants and half a billion shabbos goyim is invulnerable to a single teenager, yes

16:42:03 hdbuck: me sad for france :(

16:42:04 mircea_popescu: what, sort-of like goliath ?

16:42:09 mircea_popescu: depends on the teenager.

16:42:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00409107 = 4.0911 BTC [+] {6}

16:42:16 radan: I don't know what you mean by reculture, either

16:42:23 radan: I've mostly grown up in American culture

16:42:27 radan: my mannerisms are American

16:42:29 mircea_popescu: aculturation is the process throuygh which one becomes a part of a culture.

16:42:44 mircea_popescu: reculturation is the process called marriage for women, where an individual moves from one culture to another.

16:42:44 radan: what is American culture, though

16:42:57 mircea_popescu: well you're there, what are you asking me for.

16:43:06 radan: I follow the customs of this country

16:43:08 radan: beyond that

16:43:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 600 @ 0.00412996 = 2.478 BTC [+] {10}

16:43:15 mircea_popescu: so do you like date ?

16:43:28 radan: yeah

16:43:31 BingoBoingo: American culture is mostly distorted versions of other cultures kind of assembled after a long game of telephone

16:43:32 radan: not this semester

16:43:33 radan: but

16:43:34 mircea_popescu: what's it like ?

16:43:52 radan: it's not anything like the movies portray it, lol

16:43:56 radan: it's just

16:43:59 radan: if you like a girl

16:44:02 radan: you hang out with her more

16:44:12 radan: and schedule stuff to do I gues

16:44:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0041 = 0.41 BTC [-]

16:44:30 mircea_popescu: you're obviously not studying very hard.

16:44:32 radan: I don't know how you do it in Wallachia

16:44:45 mircea_popescu: horseface whatshername would be ashamed of you.

16:45:05 radan: it's just normal, here. I can't really think of an alternativfe

16:45:06 radan: it's just normal, here. I can't really think of an alternativfe

16:45:13 mircea_popescu: ;;ud sex in the city

16:45:14 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sex%20and%20the%20city | A now retired HBO series in syndication that chronicles the life of four single heterosexual women living in New York City who behave like stereoty...

16:45:15 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: sex and the city

16:45:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07000022 = 0.28 BTC [+]

16:45:38 radan: going back to the society bit

16:46:01 LordPutin: should you shave your balls for the first date?

16:46:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.07298989 = 1.2408 BTC [+] {3}

16:46:21 radan: seeing as how all of modern life and culture and all that are dust

16:46:30 radan: vanity of vanities

16:46:40 radan: umm

16:46:44 radan: just generally meaningless

16:46:54 radan: the natural thing for a man to do

16:46:58 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't go as far as to say all.

16:47:04 mircea_popescu: not that it's a novel idea to do so.

16:47:14 radan: is to follow the same prerogative that has guided his ancestors since the dawn of life

16:47:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299 = 0.365 BTC [+]

16:47:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24050 @ 0.0009405 = 22.619 BTC [+]

16:47:23 mircea_popescu: well that may be tricky.

16:47:44 radan: the biological imperative.

16:48:01 mircea_popescu: so what are you doing here then

16:48:01 radan: of course it's tricky in the West

16:48:03 mircea_popescu: epulu awaits.

16:48:10 radan: they call it racism, nepotism, whatever

16:48:31 radan: unless you're a minority you're expected to treat everyone equally

16:48:39 radan: and those bastards have the audacity to call it altruism

16:48:49 radan: never mind that altruism refers to helping out one's own

16:48:57 radan: not the entire vast sum of humanity

16:48:59 mircea_popescu: not necessarily.

16:49:22 radan: what am I doing in the United States

16:49:27 radan: it's a damn good question

16:49:38 radan: some days I really feel like getting the fuck out of here

16:49:43 mircea_popescu: well i imagine your parents just took you there as an object

16:49:45 radan: but

16:49:54 radan: my plan is to graduate with a degree in petroleum engineering

16:50:01 radan: work for a few years in the oil industry

16:50:07 radan: save up a reasonable sum of money

16:50:09 BingoBoingo: radan: What part of the States are you most familiar with?

16:50:20 radan: invest a little in Mongolia or somewhere with a lot of resources

16:50:26 radan: and finally return to Europe

16:50:38 radan: where I can work on my goal full time.

16:51:17 radan: I live in Louisiana, bingo. it's a great state

16:51:24 radan: the people are very polite and friendly

16:51:27 Ghaleon: poboys

16:51:37 LorenzoMoney: http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/20/sec-investigation-of-bitcoin-based-stock-sale/

16:51:38 ozbot: SEC investigation of Bitcoin-based stock sale could lead to broader regulation

16:51:40 Ghaleon: i was in New orelans after Katrina

16:51:50 Ghaleon: good folks there.. city is corrupt tho.. sin city...

16:51:52 BingoBoingo: radan: It is polite country out there

16:52:07 BingoBoingo: Ghaleon: Corruption isn't always a bad thing

16:52:08 radan: well, when you look at the people doing the corruption

16:52:14 radan: you begin to notice a trend among them

16:52:15 mircea_popescu: LorenzoMoney https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/446867449343139841

16:52:35 radan: it's either nigs doing it or cajuns

16:52:36 mircea_popescu: Ghaleon i doubt anything beats chicago, still.

16:52:43 Ghaleon: new orleans cops were scary.. the DEA helped me rebuild a school for some nuns.. but first they wanted to beat me lol

16:53:15 radan: and of course there's the jewish nepotism you'll find anywhere

16:53:18 Ghaleon: lose the tan when dealing with them :/ if ya know what I mean

16:53:27 radan: but that isn't considered corruption here

16:53:36 Ghaleon: lol yeah...

16:54:25 radan: dr. popescu, my parents did take me here.

16:54:36 radan: and, all things considered, I'm glad they did

16:55:08 radan: but it's a miserable society.

16:55:10 LorenzoMoney: jewish nepotism and new orleans and hyrricanes? WHat a fucking idiot you are

16:55:24 radan: people always ask me about New Orleans

16:55:30 radan: I tell them it's a great city to live in

16:55:30 LordPutin: LorenzoMoney i'm scared

16:55:45 LorenzoMoney: no wonder your ancestors were stupid enough to give up their paganism for the idiocy of catholicism

16:55:51 radan: but I would never raise children here

16:56:15 ThickAsThieves: <radan> but it's a miserable society. /// how do you distinguish a miserable society, from a miserable world, from a miserable you?

16:56:26 radan: well, obviously one leads to the other

16:56:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.07298991 = 0.9489 BTC [-] {3}

16:56:38 radan: but I really don't think I would be unhappy in a traditional lifestyle

16:56:40 ThickAsThieves: yeah but you probly have the order wrong

16:57:09 Ghaleon: orleans was scary as hell during and after katrina... the racism there is so dense..

16:57:23 radan: I mean

16:57:26 radan: the world is fucked up

16:57:37 radan: but there are still happy people in Afghanistan and Thibet and Borneo

16:57:41 Ghaleon: felt with the army, sea, nuns and a bunch of dudes carrying heavy weapons shoed up usually.... pretty much bandits.. but i felt their pain

16:57:47 radan: and those weird as fuck little tribesmen in Africa

16:58:07 hdbuck: and mp ^^

16:58:12 Ghaleon: the native , aboriginal peoples are closest to God

16:58:19 radan: depression, mental ilness, and the concomitant host of modern evils

16:58:35 BingoBoingo: radan: Have you ever tried the Mardi Gras thing? I've found that SoCo Hurricaines make the misery go away.

16:58:39 radan: are not found where people have work to do, real work.

16:58:57 radan: "the Mardi Gras thing"

16:59:03 radan: you're outting yourself for a yankee

16:59:21 BingoBoingo: radan: MidWesterner

16:59:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.00360002 = 0.4968 BTC [-]

16:59:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000023 = 0.35 BTC [-]

16:59:35 radan: everything north of the Mason Dixon line and west of Texas

16:59:37 BingoBoingo: Closest major city is St Louis

16:59:41 ThickAsThieves: alcohol is a mistress that way BingoBoingo, "The love I sell you in the evening, by the morning won't exist"

16:59:43 radan: might as well be Boston

17:00:06 ThickAsThieves: although that lyric is likely about cocaine

17:00:09 radan: I spent some time in Indiana

17:00:20 radan: the white people there act like africans here

17:00:26 BingoBoingo: radan: A good portion of the neighboring country here was functionally in the other part of the US in the 1860's

17:00:29 ThickAsThieves: a great song, if you can handle a dash of emo: http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107858489409/

17:01:05 radan: going back to my point

17:01:15 radan: people are happy when they can work to feed themselves and their families

17:01:22 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I actually rather enjoy the hangovers

17:01:23 radan: and ensure an existence for their children

17:01:41 radan: they are generally not happy in huge impersonal concrete cities

17:01:53 radan: doing "work" solely of the intellectual flavor

17:01:56 ThickAsThieves: my point more lies in that alcohol causes a creeping depression

17:02:01 radan: and having very few children

17:02:04 ThickAsThieves: mostly hard to detect

17:02:09 radan: as is, for some reason, the modern custom.

17:02:18 spam_mania: no alcohol causes a creeping depression.

17:02:28 ThickAsThieves: such that you begin to feel it's the world, when really it's your body

17:02:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 94 @ 0.00355905 = 0.3346 BTC [-] {4}

17:03:04 ThickAsThieves: chased by the dragon, in a way

17:03:25 BingoBoingo: It thought chasing the dragon was about people racing horses in their veins

17:03:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00093881 = 9.3881 BTC [-] {2}

17:04:01 mircea_popescu: radan nobody is arguing that the us isn't miserable. most of all not thinking people living there

17:04:03 ThickAsThieves: well chasing the dragon is chasing a high that cannot be physiologically achieved anymore

17:04:34 mircea_popescu: and i dunno who in their right mind would raise their children there, either.

17:05:04 mircea_popescu: anyway, to liven up the discussion a little,

17:05:08 mircea_popescu: http://31.media.tumblr.com/34769108d6653d75dc6bf21082cb8295/tumblr_metam8EJnw1rmcr76o1_1280.jpg

17:05:23 ThickAsThieves: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=587 // they didnt include an address to send flowers, nor a funeral date

17:06:00 mircea_popescu: heh, gallipi really wants to be stupid huh.

17:06:17 mircea_popescu: i guess every man gets to make that choice for himself.

17:06:20 ThickAsThieves: i like the typography of the new bitpay logo, but the left angle on the box is not parallel

17:06:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00093079 = 4.654 BTC [-] {3}

17:07:00 ThickAsThieves: the "ay" snuggling is kinda pro

17:07:28 kakobrekla: if only highlevelminer had such logo

17:07:38 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what's a snuggling ?

17:07:42 mircea_popescu: ianat

17:08:06 radan: the a and the y follow a curve

17:08:12 mircea_popescu: oh i see

17:08:31 ThickAsThieves: it's just good lettering

17:08:39 ThickAsThieves: but they ruin it with that lefy angle

17:08:42 ThickAsThieves: left*

17:09:04 DudeSj: mircea_popescu,

17:09:10 ThickAsThieves: such things stick out like sore thumbs to me

17:09:37 mircea_popescu: "murder she wrote"

17:10:04 ThickAsThieves: lol

17:10:23 Namworld: [12:57] <radan> the world is fucked up

17:10:51 radan: ikr?

17:10:56 radan: it's horrible

17:10:58 radan: we need to fix it

17:11:07 Namworld: Well I can't say this year compared to the latest years. But on the longer term, the world is the least fucked up it's ever been, if by fucked up you mean things like torture, violence and such.

17:11:15 radan: of course I don't

17:11:21 radan: why would that be metric for "fucked up"

17:11:27 kakobrekla: horrible? terrible is what it is.

17:11:49 BingoBoingo: Eh, if the world was stable, there'd be no room for opportunity

17:11:49 mircea_popescu: the world is runcible

17:11:52 ThickAsThieves: abominable too!

17:11:59 chetty: the best way to 'fix' stuff is leave it be

17:12:09 ThickAsThieves: best way to fix all your problems is to die

17:12:12 ThickAsThieves: you first!

17:12:13 Namworld: Not that it doesn't need improving. There's no perfection that can be reached. There's always room to further improve.

17:12:37 Namworld: But the world ain't as bad as the medias portray it.

17:13:04 radan: it's much, much worse

17:13:09 ThickAsThieves: "The White House wants to know how worried you are about data privacy"

17:13:19 kakobrekla: blah blah blah heat death of the universe, who cares

17:13:20 radan: anyway

17:13:24 ThickAsThieves: http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/technology/big-data-review

17:13:24 ozbot: Watch a message from Counselor to the President John Podesta. | The White House

17:13:24 radan: if things were at equilibrium

17:13:27 ThickAsThieves: lol

17:13:34 radan: leaving them be would be the greatest course of actionj

17:13:51 ThickAsThieves: Have a problem with NSA? Fill out this form. Have a nice day!

17:13:52 radan: but with a whole host of hostile actors pushing them in a certain direction

17:14:03 mircea_popescu: radan you're in school anyway. why's your focus the state of the world ?

17:14:04 radan: it is the duty of any right-thinking man to push them back

17:14:10 mircea_popescu: the world's a lot older than you are.

17:14:21 radan: this is a world I plan to live in

17:14:43 Namworld: Crime, corruption, violence, torture, selfish wars. They were far more frequent in the "good old time of yore".

17:14:51 radan: I'd like to know more about it before I pay it my pound of flesh

17:15:00 radan: and what I've learned so far isn't very encouraging

17:15:15 Namworld: World is literally paradise compared to what it used to be.

17:15:16 ThickAsThieves: "How much do these types of data collection concern you?"

17:15:24 chetty: if the direction is bad it will fix itself - not pleasantly but ...

17:15:26 ThickAsThieves: "How much do you trust these institutions with your data?"

17:15:28 ThickAsThieves: ...

17:15:44 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/447039816497377280

17:15:44 ozbot: Twitter / RichardEngel: Alaska was part of #russia ...

17:16:08 radan: namworld, you define paradise like a soft fat man

17:16:12 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/447059066167500801

17:16:16 kakobrekla: he can just chargeback through paypal

17:16:28 mircea_popescu: hahahaha

17:16:49 Namworld: Study history further before saying it isn't very encouraging. World has improved and it can still be improved.

17:16:57 Namworld: What do you mean by soft fat man?

17:17:27 Namworld: I'm neither fat nor soft. Although yes I am a male.

17:18:19 ThickAsThieves: "How much do you trust these institutions with your data?" "Stop."

17:18:23 ThickAsThieves: oops

17:18:26 ThickAsThieves: wrong quote

17:18:35 ThickAsThieves: How much do you trust these institutions with your data? Stop.

17:18:38 ThickAsThieves: ddammit

17:18:42 ThickAsThieves: they wont let me quote it

17:18:44 mircea_popescu: lmao

17:18:45 ThickAsThieves: fuckers

17:18:47 kakobrekla: just stop.

17:18:48 mircea_popescu: get a real os ?

17:19:04 ThickAsThieves: Is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your thoughts on this issue?

17:19:07 ThickAsThieves: thqat was it

17:19:13 ThickAsThieves: anyway

17:19:16 ThickAsThieves: fukn joke

17:19:48 ThickAsThieves: what answers do they expect? Yes, I love people collecting data on me!

17:20:41 mircea_popescu: http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/5041/20140321/gambling-website-under-sec-probe-over-bitcoin-denominated-stock-sale.htm

17:20:47 mircea_popescu: is this thing legit or mostly a seo-spamsite

17:20:57 asciilifeform: radan: do you know russian? because if yes, you'd enjoy limonov's 'disciplinary sanitarium' (http://royallib.ru/book/limonov_eduard/distsiplinarniy_sanatoriy.html)

17:21:39 Namworld: The life in nature is a very cruel one, radan. Humans can be just as cruel. But as time passes and our understanding of ourselves improves, we seem to be doing away with that.

17:22:12 ThickAsThieves: here's your answer Mircea: "SatochiDice "

17:22:17 mircea_popescu: o right

17:22:20 mircea_popescu: ty.

17:22:24 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Appears to be a page scraper

17:22:24 radan: I love Russian

17:22:34 radan: I was talking to some russians a minute ago

17:22:38 Namworld: Sure there's regions where it's a hellhole right now. Those places change over the ages. Globally, overall, crime rate, wars, torture, hate, violence, etc are pretty low.

17:22:45 radan: you're so deluded, mate

17:22:47 radan: hate

17:22:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 51 @ 0.07351136 = 3.7491 BTC [+] {9}

17:22:55 radan: terrorisms

17:23:02 radan: do you even believe in these things

17:23:07 kakobrekla: and graffiti

17:23:08 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is how the nsa works, by the way. we've just used BUMBLEBEE to identify the source of leaked documents.

17:23:12 radan: they're meaningless, unquantifiable buzzwords

17:23:15 ThickAsThieves: this is a good little tactic, insert retarded mistakes into articles

17:23:18 ThickAsThieves: you win

17:23:28 mircea_popescu: this is why my rss feed starts with the ip of the scraper

17:23:31 radan: and I guarantee you the modern liberal has much more hate in his heart than a christian 2000 years ago

17:23:32 mircea_popescu: so i can ban them

17:23:37 Namworld: That you hear about it a lot in the media doesn't mean that the world isn't better than before. Sure those things happen. I'm not questioning it.

17:23:51 radan: you're problem is that you define good as anything weak

17:23:55 radan: like softness

17:24:03 radan: and being a pacifistic, sexless pusys

17:24:09 ThickAsThieves: i was thinking, itd be nice to have the fraudsters model accessible to more of us

17:24:09 BingoBoingo: Soft tits are good though

17:24:12 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1751063/plain/)

17:24:12 mircea_popescu: !b 5

17:24:13 ThickAsThieves: credit system

17:24:19 ThickAsThieves: IP blocking

17:24:20 ThickAsThieves: etc

17:24:30 ThickAsThieves: i dont wanna deal with runnning Wordpress

17:24:32 ThickAsThieves: etc

17:24:34 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it's trivial to implement neh ?

17:24:37 radan: whereas goodness to me is virtue

17:24:43 radan: and living like a man

17:24:47 ThickAsThieves: not trivial to maintain though

17:24:49 radan: and having a lot of children

17:24:55 Namworld: Did I ever define good as that? I don't recall using those words you portray me to have said.

17:25:05 radan: orwell wrote about people like you

17:25:12 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: It isn't as onerous as some make it seem

17:25:18 ThickAsThieves: WP exploits are like daily, no?

17:25:22 Namworld: I'm saying, if you're not happy about the current state of the world, will you just lay down or work to help it keep improving?

17:25:32 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Depends on the kind of exploit

17:25:33 radan: it's not improving

17:25:33 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i never had one. never updated since what, 2008

17:25:36 radan: that's the whole point

17:25:41 radan: it's becoming softer and worse

17:25:48 radan: worse in every conceivable way

17:25:58 Namworld: I've never said to be apathetic and not doing anything.

17:26:08 ThickAsThieves: i dont have "people" to set such up properly anymore

17:26:14 ThickAsThieves: meh

17:26:20 radan: you and I have very different conceptions of improvement

17:26:22 ThickAsThieves: my statement remains, it'd be nice

17:26:27 Namworld: It's been becoming worse since when, tell me?

17:26:47 radan: I think you think "activists" and little intellectual fuckers with low testosterone to be helping the world out somehow

17:26:52 chetty: radan: worse in every conceivable way // lack of imagination

17:26:54 radan: whereas they are the very ones destroying it

17:26:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012964 = 0.6482 BTC [-] {8}

17:27:04 mircea_popescu: if anyone cares to read romanian mobster blogs, i give you http://www.nicugheara.com/

17:27:14 Namworld: activists don't achieve much at all

17:27:23 Namworld: Not modern kind anyway.

17:27:23 radan: no, jews do.

17:27:30 radan: but you and I cannot become jews

17:27:46 radan: so

17:27:47 ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524071.msg5819385#msg5819385 I'm not sure I have the energy for this guy now the MPOE-PR broke him

17:27:49 ozbot: Decentralized Securities (Mastercoin, Colored Coins, etc.) - SEC regulation?

17:27:50 radan: we need a better alternative

17:27:56 ThickAsThieves: that*

17:27:56 Namworld: What is it with people seeing the world as becoming bad invoking jews?

17:27:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.07499999 = 0.75 BTC [+] {2}

17:28:02 radan: that's what I'm trying to set up.

17:28:05 Namworld: What a silly idea.

17:28:21 chetty: jews accept converts

17:28:24 radan: my goal is to found a traditional society

17:28:31 radan: for people of my genetic stock

17:28:40 radan: and live out my life in it.

17:28:58 Namworld: That you're jew or not matters not. Not at all.

17:28:58 radan: that's what I envision as an alternative... others may disagree

17:29:05 radan: dr. popescu may have a better solution

17:29:06 mircea_popescu: radan sure you can become jewish, what are you talking about

17:29:23 radan: yes, I can. I can even become an orthodox jew

17:29:27 radan: because I'm maternally jewish

17:29:28 mircea_popescu: right

17:29:32 mircea_popescu: irrespective.

17:29:37 radan: but your average person won't.

17:29:39 radan: and really

17:29:41 radan: can't.

17:29:47 radan: and anyway

17:29:48 Namworld: What does it matter?

17:29:49 only: mircea_popescu: what the actual fuck, lol. why does he think he needs a blog?

17:29:56 radan: Judaism benefits the jews

17:30:02 Namworld: Tell me how being jewish changes anything?

17:30:02 mircea_popescu: only he's getting old, got bored.

17:30:06 radan: I don't want to invest in the genetic stock of another nation

17:30:08 radan: another people

17:30:10 mircea_popescu: been in ibiza for 10ish years now

17:30:11 radan: another race, even

17:30:14 ThickAsThieves: mobster blog doesnt load for me

17:30:21 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i dunno who would bother in that topic tbh

17:30:44 mircea_popescu: so some random nobody who scammed a bunch of investors wants to continue derping on bitcointalk as if.

17:30:50 mircea_popescu: not the first, not the last, what of it.

17:30:56 asciilifeform: i'll take the liberty of translating

17:30:57 asciilifeform: 'Испуганное проявлениями своего собственного каннибализма в первую и, более всего, во вторую мировые войны, «цивилизованное» человечество отшатнулось от hard к soft режимам. (Плюс сыграли роль еще два важнейших фактора: 1. сдержив

17:30:58 asciilifeform: ающее агрессивность влияние ядерных вооружений и 2. появление новых технологий производства, сделавших возможным закармливание масс.) Если сущность hard заключается в физическом подавлении человека, soft основано на поощрении е

17:30:58 asciilifeform: го слабостей. Идеал жесткого насилия — превратить мир в тюрьму строгого режима, идеал мягкого — превратить человека в домашнее животное.'

17:31:03 asciilifeform: 'Frightened of its own cannibalism during the First, and, moreover, the Second world wars. 'civilized' mankind dashed from the 'hard' to the 'soft' mode of violence. (The deciding factors: 1. the restraining influence of atomic weapons and 2. the advent of new technologies of production, which made possible an overfeeding of the masses.) If the essence of 'hard' violence consists in the physical suppression of

17:31:08 asciilifeform: man, 'soft' is based on the encouragement of his weaknesses. The ideal of 'hard' violence - to convert the world into a maximum security prison, of 'soft' - to convert man himself into a domestic animal.'

17:31:15 Namworld: There's one race and only one.

17:31:26 asciilifeform: (limonov's 'disciplinary sanitarium')

17:31:28 Namworld: (For humans)

17:32:20 radan: we are all one race

17:32:44 Namworld: You just said another race

17:32:48 radan: never mind the overrepresentation of cosmopolitans in any powerful body in the west

17:32:56 radan: never mind the genetic differences between us

17:33:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 102 @ 0.00360002 = 0.3672 BTC [-] {3}

17:33:18 radan: never mind that your average african really cannot function in a modern society

17:33:23 radan: no

17:33:30 radan: we're all one people, blah blah blah, diversity

17:33:35 radan: ^ the modern manifesto

17:34:01 mircea_popescu: radan inasmuch as pretty much any girl can carry your babies, what's your argument to difference based on ?

17:34:12 radan: look at it this way

17:34:20 radan: the whole point of reproduction

17:34:25 radan: is ensuring the passing on of your genes

17:34:40 dignork: radan, anybody can become jewish, google ״giyur״

17:34:44 BingoBoingo: http://www.dorkly.com/comic/60090/8-reasons-why-youre-pretty-much-batman

17:34:44 ozbot: 8 Reasons Why You're Pretty Much Batman - Dorkly Comic

17:34:45 radan: your average countrywoman will share more of them with you, even before the act, than a papuan or botswanan

17:34:56 radan: so by having kids with her

17:35:04 radan: you're passing on more of your genes to your offspring

17:35:07 radan: than the alternative

17:35:14 Namworld: Not at all...

17:35:17 mircea_popescu: i think this is at best a naive interpretation of genetics.

17:35:24 ThickAsThieves: I think I sorted out the proper reply https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524071.msg5825367#msg5825367

17:35:25 asciilifeform: 'Among all of the crimes, the most terrible (though not punishable) is the crime against one's own self -- the failure of an individual to use his own, only life. Listen to the idiotic musical noises, park the car, labour in the light but uninteresting work, and before you know it, your tenure upon this earth is over. The collective, so-called 'civilized mankind,' has excelled in the creation of (and imposition

17:35:25 asciilifeform: upon the furthest reaches of the planet) a life colourless, boring, stupid, devoid of any real joys. The life of domestic animals. Against a 'Big Brother', the old 'maximum security' wearing boots and a menacing uniform, it was possible to (as history shows, this takes place sooner or later) - rise up. But how about uprising against one's own weaknesses - is this possible?'

17:35:30 radan: it's the whole reason we help our brothers and parents even though we have no intention of fucking them.

17:35:36 radan: they share our genes

17:35:51 radan: it's the genetic background for altruism.

17:36:01 BingoBoingo: This representation of genetics seems to to in practice lead to the discovery of novel diseases preventable through hybridization

17:36:13 radan: hybrid vigour has been disproved a long time ago

17:36:32 mircea_popescu: radan it seems to me my brother has just about equal chances to die by my hand than to be helped by same.

17:36:40 mircea_popescu: and my father is probably even worse off.

17:36:43 Namworld: You have a strong misunderstanding of genetics and relationships... I care not for genes, familial loyalty has more to do with being raised with people who cared for you and which you're familiar with than genes.

17:36:50 radan: namworld

17:36:57 radan: you're a soft little pale fellow

17:37:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07100021 = 0.355 BTC [-]

17:37:26 radan: your understanding of the world is skewed

17:37:29 benkay: wth is going on in here this morning?

17:37:38 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves funny how your list of "i used to think but" keeps swelling

17:37:52 mircea_popescu: benkay putin launched a nuke

17:37:58 mircea_popescu: so now we've got stuff going on

17:38:01 Ghaleon: lol

17:38:03 radan: dr. popescu, have you heard of the bedouin

17:38:06 Ghaleon: we can only hope

17:38:12 mircea_popescu: actually i rode with the bedouin.

17:38:20 Namworld: You're a sad little piece of coal, brushing off darkness on everything, your understanding of the world is skewed. See, I can play that game too.

17:38:36 radan: that's amazing, I'm jealous

17:38:36 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

17:38:41 radan: anyway, they have a saying

17:38:44 mircea_popescu: Namworld the piece of coal conceit is actually quite good. yours or read somewhere ?

17:38:49 Namworld: Can I have arguments, not personal dismissal?

17:38:53 radan: "me against my brother, my brothers and me against my cousins, then my cousins and me against strangers"

17:38:58 mircea_popescu: radan it's not so hard to do you know, and neither expensive.

17:39:02 Namworld: I don't know, first black thing which popped in my mind.

17:39:06 ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves funny how your list of "i used to think but" keeps swelling // via reading, experience, or boredom, I shall transcend!

17:39:32 ThickAsThieves: https://btc-e.com/news/201

17:39:32 ozbot: loading

17:39:36 benkay: whoa whoa whoa mircea_popescu are you trolling me?!

17:39:37 mircea_popescu: "You're a sad little piece of coal, brushing off darkness on everything," definitely. should be in a poem or soemthing

17:40:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.60000006 = 3 BTC [-] {3}

17:40:37 radan: when you remove the distractions

17:40:40 dexX7: hehe i didn't know anotheranonlol is still around

17:40:49 radan: the whole point of our existence is to further our genes

17:40:59 Namworld: I'm sure piece of coal was used already somewhere by a thousand different people, and I might have read something similar. Pretty sure the sentence is original. That or brought out from a subconscious memory.

17:41:09 radan: so I'd rather help people out who are close to me, genetically

17:41:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07100101 = 0.355 BTC [+]

17:41:16 Namworld: Why?

17:41:21 BingoBoingo: http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2014/03/it-aint-me-ive-got-pgp-imposter.html

17:41:21 ozbot: GavinTech: It ain't me I've got a PGP imposter

17:41:24 radan: like bulgarians, wallachians, and eastern serbs

17:41:34 radan: than people with no genetic link to me

17:41:43 radan: who are "as chaff unto the wheat"

17:41:44 Namworld: It actually reduces the chance of your genes going on.

17:42:10 Namworld: Difference is good, when it comes to genetics, typically.

17:42:26 radan: you have a high school understanding of genetics, friend.

17:42:35 radan: if it was so

17:42:40 dignork: radan, idea of keen was born way before discovery of genes, they just happened to snap right into your bizzare view of world, it's a pure coincidence

17:42:45 radan: then the optimal look for people would be a coffee-skinned melange

17:43:00 radan: with black

17:43:03 radan: eyes

17:43:04 radan: black hair

17:43:25 radan: there would be no diversity in the world.

17:43:29 Namworld: You want to reproduce with people with as different genetics as possible, and as big a variety as possible.

17:43:34 radan: if mixing was genetically good

17:43:39 radan: then species would never seperate

17:43:41 mircea_popescu: you understand that even if the entire population only reproduced on strict mixing guidelines there'd still be a bunch of blondes etc.

17:43:53 mircea_popescu: heck, a black couple recently had a blonde kid wieth blue eyes

17:44:09 radan: there would be no reason to adapt to different conditions

17:44:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.05899899 = 0.472 BTC [-]

17:44:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.06200012 = 0.496 BTC [-] {2}

17:44:20 radan: because the hybrid state would have a higher chance of survival

17:44:21 Namworld: Mixing your genes with more of the same, less risk of improvements. Many offspring with different genetic partners, more chance of having a good combination.

17:44:33 asciilifeform: last one

17:44:35 asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is a rebuke,

17:44:35 radan: yet we live in a world with millions of species

17:44:35 asciilifeform: a videoclip of a fairy tale coming true... ...they [americans] also wish to drive around in jeeps, accompanied by squadrons of hotties in berets with kalashnikovs - but are impotent from birth. Envy, taken with an understanding of one's own powerless... easily transforms into hatred. The leaders of the sanitarium are easier for the 'patient' to understand, closer. He sees their permissible pecadillos, and is pl

17:44:35 asciilifeform: eased with their mediocrity. 'But this fellow from the desert!' (Interestingly, that among the hundreds of tyrants, in uniform and without, depending on the united states or the european sanitaria, none provoke a fraction of the wrath caused by Kaddafi. Evidently, the cause is his independence.) Kaddafi - is an extraordinary living proof of the fact that the fairy-tale version of life remains possible today. Bu

17:44:41 asciilifeform: t only outside of the sanitaria.'

17:44:41 radan: somehow they speciated

17:44:57 asciilifeform: ^ the limonov is for radan. everyone else, feel free to ignore

17:45:07 Namworld: Species separate because they are physically separated and cannot travel easily/evolve in a different environment.

17:45:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.11950724 = 0.9561 BTC [-]

17:45:16 benkay: i want a pickup full of hotties with m16s.

17:45:22 benkay: when i am bitlord of cascadia...

17:45:28 Namworld: So they don't come in contact with each other. That's when the get speciated....

17:45:35 radan: that's allopatric speciation

17:45:57 radan: you don't even know about parapatric or sympatric speciation

17:46:06 radan: either you're still in high school

17:46:11 radan: or you've never taken a biology class

17:46:20 radan: or a statistics class, for that matter.

17:47:08 ThickAsThieves: or he forgot, geez

17:47:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0585 = 0.117 BTC [-]

17:47:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.062 = 0.124 BTC [-]

17:48:29 mircea_popescu: lol matonis heard of fraudsters.

17:48:32 radan: maybe

17:48:42 radan: I tend to remember what I read

17:48:43 mircea_popescu: news travels fast, unless you're in the bitcoin peanut gallery.

17:48:49 Namworld: Even then, it's still because they're separated. People don't know it's ideal typically, and don't usually care about it. If they can't be assed to get to the next neighborhood to have sex and still speciation occurs, what can you do about it?

17:49:04 benkay: subject of bitlord of cascadia, the campaign has begun and is doing quite well, ty for asking. simply by showing up to the 'meetups', calling out scams and repeatedly hammering on points such as 'btc ≠ consumer tech' has rendered unto me many lunches and dinners paid for by cautious and quiet folk of wealth and power.

17:49:15 BingoBoingo: Reasons why breeding outside the group is useful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews

17:49:37 Namworld: More offsprings with more diverse genes is still better statistically. Never said people actually strived for it. They tend to prefer personally enjoyement over ensuring their genes survive.

17:49:40 radan: Jews have been marrying their first cousins for millenia

17:49:55 Namworld: Thus will mate with however they prefer, not based on genes.

17:49:56 radan: that's irresponsible and leads to bad effects.

17:50:03 benkay: some groups of jews

17:50:07 benkay: there are several, radan.

17:50:15 benkay: it's how they maintain fitness across the whole smorgasbord.

17:50:23 radan: third cousins, on the other hand, improve the genetic stock

17:50:30 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I imagine the BTC peanut gallery has the inverse problem of the one I supposed the media had in the morning's post

17:50:39 radan: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/02/08/couples-who-are-third-or-fourth-cousins-have-more-kids-grandkids-than-other/

17:50:58 radan: "The researchers suggest marrying third and fourth cousins is so optimal for reproduction because they sort of have the "best of both worlds." While first-cousin couples could have inbreeding problems, couples who are far-removed from each other could have genetic incompatibilities."

17:50:59 ThickAsThieves: looks like he heard a year ago https://twitter.com/jonmatonis/status/328926763809918977

17:51:35 ThickAsThieves: he just skips over the "bad" parts I guess

17:52:21 Namworld: If you're having a single partner, then yes, maybe that's the best course of action. But then again, what does it matter?

17:52:37 radan: it matters because reproduction is the whole point of our existence

17:52:42 radan: everything else is fluff

17:52:51 BingoBoingo: I wonder is ReutersEmily is filling out a requisition for a few bitcents to get fraudsters credits

17:53:04 Namworld: You plan to live your life exclusively around optimal gene dissemination?

17:53:53 ThickAsThieves: wtf is this conversation?

17:53:56 Namworld: You'd better travel the world and rape every women along the way like Genghis Khan.

17:54:08 ThickAsThieves: a science class pissing contest?

17:54:22 dignork: radan, your personal point of existence is reproduction? Your life is boring I tell ya.

17:54:48 radan: not just reproduction

17:55:00 radan: honey bees survive despite 75% of them having no children

17:55:07 mircea_popescu: <radan> that's irresponsible and leads to bad effects. << dfude srsly. if i want a green eyed mulatto for breakfast, i'm porking a green eyed mulatto for breakfast. what "bad effects"

17:55:30 radan: because the beelets they do raise are genetically close to them

17:55:43 radan: so I'm the process of founding a society

17:55:52 radan: for people of danubian stock

17:56:05 mircea_popescu: there's such a thing as "danubian stock" ?!

17:56:06 Namworld: I have no clue. Radan is unhappy about the world and keeps mentioning jews and about mating and promoting his gene pool.

17:56:17 Namworld: I think I know where this is headed.

17:56:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.59070675 = 17.7212 BTC [-] {7}

17:56:27 radan: yes sir

17:56:44 radan: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Haplogroups_europe.png

17:57:05 mircea_popescu: seems a tenuous theory.

17:57:06 radan: Romanians and Bulgarians both have 70%+ old thracian genes

17:57:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.59 BTC [-]

17:58:01 ThickAsThieves: so radan is here to puke his top-of-mind reading requirements all over us

17:58:02 mircea_popescu: there's a lot of difference between say transylvania and the south even in romania.

17:58:11 radan: culturally, yes

17:58:20 radan: genetically, you're very similar

17:58:26 Namworld: So what, you purport to promote your own genes, you should promote people close genetically and crush the rest?

17:58:27 mircea_popescu: that aside, amusingly enough, the romanian natl poet seems to have hated bulgarians (and greeks)

17:58:29 radan: I have a friend from maramures and we look fucking identical

17:58:32 Mats_cd03: im going to pour chlorine in your gene pool

17:58:32 mircea_popescu: for very similar reasons

17:58:41 Mats_cd03: this conversation sucks

17:59:37 mircea_popescu: http://www.romanianvoice.com/poezii/poezii/scrisoarea3.php

17:59:42 mircea_popescu: "Voi sunteţi urmaşii Romei? Nişte răi şi nişte fameni!

17:59:42 mircea_popescu: I-e ruşine omenirii să vă zică vouă oameni!

17:59:42 mircea_popescu: Şi această ciumă-n lume şi aceste creaturi

17:59:42 mircea_popescu: Nici ruşine n-au să ieie în smintitele lor guri

17:59:42 mircea_popescu: Gloria neamului nostru spre-a o face de ocară,

17:59:43 mircea_popescu: Îndrăznesc ca să rostească pân' şi numele tău... ţară!"

17:59:48 mircea_popescu: roughly translated as you r bad ppls!

17:59:57 Mats_cd03: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-02/dg-dlc020408.php

18:00:04 mircea_popescu: (also humanity is ashamed to call you pepole)

18:00:04 Mats_cd03: 'science'

18:00:09 radan: it's funny

18:00:11 radan: I can read that

18:00:27 mircea_popescu: also plague and so on.

18:00:35 radan: sorta like latin and bulgarian mixed

18:00:44 radan: slavim te, romanie

18:00:45 Mats_cd03: longitudinal study beats all the stupid links that have been appearing as evidence in this channel

18:00:56 BingoBoingo: Speaking of ancient web games everyone forgot about http://www.nationstates.net/nation=bingotonia

18:01:03 mircea_popescu: haha latin and bulgarian mixed, that's an idea.

18:01:18 mircea_popescu: actually... few people know but at some point bulgaria was the major kingdom in se europe

18:01:22 Namworld: Or you know, there's ~99.9% of genes in commons between any human and the next. Maybe if you want to promote your genes and people close genetically, you should consider all humans the same and work on ensuring humans can colonize space. That would help your genes' survival. Most of them.

18:01:24 mircea_popescu: kinda propped up byzantium for a while.

18:01:37 radan: humans will never work together

18:01:39 radan: as a whole

18:01:41 Namworld: Go do some research work for that.

18:01:42 Mats_cd03: its amusing that people talk about genes as though its a single cohesive entity

18:01:48 radan: there's a reason all attempts at it have failed

18:01:50 mircea_popescu: he's right. humans will only work together as a whore.

18:02:00 Mats_cd03: instead of, you know, dna expression being manipulable by 7-9 different factors

18:02:09 radan: I know all about epigenetics

18:02:15 mircea_popescu: well maybe not all ?

18:02:16 Mats_cd03: wheres that ms immunology dude that can explain this better than me

18:02:17 radan: it's what's behind the recent outbreaks of autism in the west

18:02:25 Mats_cd03: lol outbreaks

18:02:28 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 bugpowder ?

18:02:38 radan: it's not a disease our ancestors ever had to deal with

18:02:40 Mats_cd03: you right

18:02:49 mircea_popescu: radan neither is cancer.

18:03:11 radan: cancer has also been exacerbated by modern life

18:03:16 Mats_cd03: there is so much more than epigenetics in play

18:03:18 radan: but not to the extent of autism

18:03:34 Namworld: It doesn't matter if the whole of humanity doesn't work together. Humanity isn't a damn ant colony. Why would it work together as a whole?

18:03:42 radan: namworld

18:03:44 radan: what's your goal

18:03:46 radan: in life

18:03:58 Namworld: It's not like you need the whole of it to participate to go to space.

18:04:29 radan: what standards do you use to judge things

18:04:37 radan: I have a feeling they're very short sighted ones

18:04:53 radan: I also think you really don't have a direction in life, but maybe you'll prove me wrong

18:05:16 Namworld: To live. As long as possible. Surefire way of ensuring your genes' survival.

18:05:34 radan: oh lord

18:06:24 radan: you're a yudkowskyite

18:07:06 Namworld: I don't know who that is.

18:08:31 radan: it's always very young people and the insecure who want immortality

18:08:46 rithm: that's what i want

18:08:51 rithm: immorality

18:09:28 Namworld: I don't mind dying if that's what you're implying, or feel threatened by death in any serious way.

18:10:44 radan: real men

18:10:47 radan: even real people

18:10:52 radan: don't want to live forever

18:11:17 radan: soft fellows with low testosterone, on the other hand...

18:11:22 radan: well

18:11:28 radan: I'll leave the obvious unsaid

18:11:40 Namworld: You see, nothing is eternal. I've never said I'd want to exist forever.

18:11:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00085071 = 0.1701 BTC [-] {4}

18:11:57 aclot: radan: always the young people and the insecure who talk about meaning of life :)

18:12:01 radan: my hypothesis is thi

18:12:30 radan: the reason insecure people want to live forever

18:12:35 radan: is that they're scared of death

18:12:48 radan: in nature, fear is the domain of women

18:12:50 Namworld: I've said as long as possible. Immortality is not a possibility. Even if you extended your life, the universe won't last forever. Killing yourself is always an option too.

18:12:59 radan: because they are physically weaker they need protection

18:13:01 radan: as such

18:13:19 Namworld: If you offered me immortality, I'd be scared of it. Scared of being left alone in darkness for eternity as the Universe dies.

18:13:30 radan: rushing head-on into situations is imprudent

18:13:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21250 @ 0.00093281 = 19.8222 BTC [+]

18:13:47 radan: when men are exposed to low fetal testosterone

18:14:01 radan: they end up very feminine

18:14:03 radan: with man boobs and soft skin and very little facial hair

18:14:16 radan: and as part of that complex

18:14:21 radan: they acquire a woman's timidity

18:14:32 radan: this is why they're scared and fearful of everything

18:14:38 radan: case in point

18:14:40 radan: "If you offered me immortality, I'd be scared of it."

18:14:53 radan: you're scared of death and scared of immortality

18:15:09 Namworld: I am not scared of death. I am of immortality however.

18:15:13 radan: you're literally scared of everything

18:15:34 radan: that is unacceptable outside of 12 year old girls

18:15:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 75 @ 0.0701 = 5.2575 BTC [-]

18:15:52 aclot: why?

18:16:07 radan: no one respects a pussy

18:16:13 mircea_popescu: 12 yo girls aren't particularly cowardly.

18:16:28 mircea_popescu: and are you kidding man ?! the entire us worships 12 pussy atm.

18:16:28 aclot: i respect good pussy

18:16:46 Namworld: That, and what does it matter what people think?

18:16:51 radan: a pussy and pussy are different things

18:17:00 radan: the other

18:17:00 radan: well

18:17:02 radan: one is cowardly and repugnant

18:17:02 radan: it's pussy

18:17:10 kakobrekla: pizda is a chemical

18:17:14 radan: *nom nom nom*

18:17:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07010001 = 0.3505 BTC [+] {2}

18:17:55 radan: of course it matters what people think

18:18:03 aclot: fear != cowardice

18:18:05 radan: you might spend the majority of your time on the computer

18:18:08 mircea_popescu: tbh 12yo girls are on average a lot braver than 12 yo boys

18:18:15 radan: but the whole world is outside of it

18:18:19 Namworld: Nothing has a purpose. So I'll extend my life given the possibility until I grow tired of life and any purposes I would give myself along the way.

18:18:22 aclot: and hawter

18:18:24 radan: with 7 billion people you have to interact with

18:18:39 radan: if you're a pussy who's scared of everything

18:18:42 radan: you won't be able to do that

18:18:52 radan: and consequently, will die alone, miserable, and unloved

18:18:54 Namworld: What people think matters? For the coward, maybe.

18:19:10 aclot: if you're afraid of nothing, you're dead in 15 secs:\

18:19:40 radan: anyway dr. popescu

18:19:44 radan: that is my philosophy

18:19:51 radan: I think I've talked enough about it

18:20:01 radan: hopefully we understand each other better now.

18:20:20 BingoBoingo: radan: You've not gotten to your metaphysics though.

18:20:40 Namworld: If you're angry, grumpy and glooming individual, you'll probably end up dying alone, miserable and unloved.

18:20:54 Namworld: That applies to both extremes.

18:21:14 BingoBoingo: radan: I am interested in your perspective on the relationship between form and extension

18:21:48 radan: hmm

18:21:48 aclot: BingoBoingo: that's pataphysics...

18:21:50 radan: sounds like nietzhe

18:21:55 radan: nietzchzche

18:22:04 mircea_popescu: so i was looking for econ 302. is this philosophy 101 ?

18:22:05 radan: neechy

18:22:23 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Mebee

18:22:29 mircea_popescu: any hawt chicks ?

18:22:36 BingoBoingo: radan: Actually I was thinking Spinoza

18:22:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]

18:23:01 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's mid semester, they won't be back for a few more weeks

18:23:05 mircea_popescu: btw, whoever recommended black mirror, cazalla was it ?

18:23:22 rithm: .bait

18:23:23 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/73a15aa574d411ad364d43497c4dda80/tumblr_mi41j3lDTW1r600xqo1_500.jpg

18:23:24 mircea_popescu: i've seen something about a black guy living in a sort of america has talent futuropia

18:23:27 mircea_popescu: not bad.

18:23:42 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did you drop a l ? black or back ?

18:24:04 radan: dr. popescu

18:24:06 Namworld: You seem to view everything with always a lot of assumptions made on the spot, or already established in your mind.

18:24:08 radan: is it true you're a billionaire

18:24:12 mircea_popescu: perhaps.

18:24:19 radan: I like that answer

18:24:29 mircea_popescu: well it's bitcoin, who ever knows.

18:24:43 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It was an intended back.

18:24:43 radan: I have 1.75 btc

18:24:52 radan: once bitcoin reaches 10000000 million dollars each

18:24:55 radan: I'll be a trillionaire

18:25:05 radan: I think it should happen by sometime next friday

18:25:14 mircea_popescu: then you can buy snake island and start your own, ukrainian-free utopia

18:25:18 Namworld: This will probably not serve you well in life, radan.

18:25:30 radan: snake island is very small

18:25:31 mircea_popescu: only buchar\est whores and honest hard working cabbage farmers from russe.

18:25:38 radan: I already scoped it out on google earth

18:25:41 radan: besides

18:25:47 radan: the seas are vulnerable

18:25:51 mircea_popescu: well how big does it have to be.

18:26:03 benkay: asl mircea_popescu

18:26:08 radan: as big as eurasia, as small as an acre.

18:26:12 mircea_popescu: 19/f/cali whai ?

18:26:14 radan: depends on how many people I can recruit

18:26:28 radan: right now I'm looking at a few places

18:26:34 benkay: wanna cyber hottie?

18:26:43 benkay: .bait

18:26:44 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcaqjc8CiZ1qaus44o1_1280.jpg

18:26:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15502 @ 0.00093305 = 14.4641 BTC [+] {3}

18:26:57 deadweasel: jesus christ, i haven't seen 'wanna cyber' in 20 years.

18:26:59 Namworld: About 12700 kilometers large and spherical would be ideal, mircea

18:27:06 mircea_popescu: benkay that looks very irresponsible and wrong benkay

18:27:13 mircea_popescu: she's turkic stock. at best.

18:27:23 radan: the pontic and siberian steppe, the balkan mountains, and the north caucasus, mainly

18:27:42 benkay: nineteen's even culturally acceptable in my jurisdiction

18:27:46 radan: though one of the guys in our project really wants afghanistan

18:27:51 mircea_popescu: radan putin ?

18:27:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13598 @ 0.00093131 = 12.664 BTC [-]

18:28:09 radan: what's he going to care

18:28:10 benkay: .bait

18:28:11 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/977ecf33ccb1a7c4523a27a701e3dd3c/tumblr_minupsb2Ty1r440j0o1_1280.jpg

18:28:16 benkay: .bait

18:28:17 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/b840390344a1170e306ed578dcb2885a/tumblr_mia4p8xybb1r85jzwo1_500.jpg

18:28:21 mircea_popescu: no i mean, what guy on your project, putin ?

18:28:32 radan: no

18:28:35 radan: he's from satu mare

18:28:35 benkay: deadweasel: that'd be the joke

18:28:39 ughlol: holy macaroni

18:28:46 ughlol: these girls are HOT!

18:28:47 benkay: .bait

18:28:48 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/822d0e8d11d0dfc452d424e7246fbe8e/tumblr_mi7nupkesZ1rv93u9o1_1280.jpg

18:28:56 benkay: oh yeah

18:29:05 Namworld: Well, I expect you to collect a lot of hate along the way and probably fail, radan, but I can always appreciate that someone fights for his ideals.

18:29:07 mircea_popescu: deadweasel i say it occasionally, works to distinguish adult womenz from the igirl generation.

18:29:18 benkay: more slips and stockings for all the babes.

18:29:23 benkay: and heels. always heels.

18:29:41 mircea_popescu: slips ?! gtfo. garter belt is all one needs.

18:30:02 radan: we're not going to be doing farming, either

18:30:07 *: ughlol does /msg ozbot .bait over and over again

18:30:46 mircea_popescu: ughlol don't overuse it, it's really here for the sec.

18:30:53 ughlol: oh

18:30:57 ughlol: sorry mircea_popescu

18:31:07 BingoBoingo: ughlol: Also you don't want to see what happens when it runs out of good bait

18:31:10 ll: lol that looks like it was taken in the uffizi

18:31:13 ughlol: haha

18:31:21 benkay: i like having something to strip them out of, mircea_popescu.

18:31:29 radan: http://vimeo.com/73177455

18:31:29 ozbot: WAKHAN - Art Film - Trailer on Vimeo

18:31:36 radan: this is the kind of lifestyle we're going for

18:32:45 BCB: any news on the SEC drama

18:33:04 benkay: 2 weeks, BCB.

18:33:07 ThickAsThieves: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/11395/securities-registration-requirements-holding-bitcoin-back/?preview_id=11395#comment-1295127329

18:33:09 BingoBoingo: BCB: Just ore news is interested in the old news

18:33:17 ninjashogun: hi

18:33:19 ThickAsThieves: some conversation with the writer

18:33:34 ninjashogun: what happens if a wire transfer is received in the wrong denomination? does the bank just convert it at whatever rate they feel like?

18:33:45 ninjashogun: (for example if someone tries to wire pounds internationally to a usd account or vice versa)

18:33:48 BCB: any journalists turning up in here

18:33:54 benkay: BCB: several.

18:33:59 benkay: Reuters, most recently.

18:34:02 BCB: benkay: 2 weeks for what

18:34:08 ll: ninjashogun: from my experience, yes

18:34:09 benkay: everything in bitcoin, BCB :)

18:34:20 Namworld: oh, if that's the kind of thing you're shooting for, go for it. Looks nice.

18:34:25 ninjashogun: ll how terrible are those rates? like 2-3 percent of the normal spread or worse?

18:34:26 BCB: benkay: I wait for 6 confirmations

18:34:34 ll: i forget

18:34:38 ughlol: hey ninjashogun! o/

18:34:40 ll: best to call your bank

18:35:43 ninjashogun: ok

18:36:25 BCB: BingoBoingo: yes they are all now starting to print the same story over and over again

18:36:55 Namworld: Fortunately, humanity hasn't blanket claimed desertic places like that yet.

18:37:01 BingoBoingo: BCB: There are variations, so far the best mass media writeup I've seen came out of Gawker of all places

18:37:12 BCB: MP is famous now

18:37:32 Namworld: It can be hard to live a traditional lifestyle if the land required to do so is all claimed already and people won't let you.

18:37:33 nubbins`: now, where were we

18:37:42 BCB: Anyone here involved in Etherium

18:37:58 Namworld: The sad aspect about such a large population of humans, diminishing amount of land available.

18:39:09 ninjashogun: humans outweigh half of humans by 2:1. Let that sink in.

18:39:55 ThickAsThieves: if any one here were involved in Ethereum, they wouldn't be involved in Ethereum

18:40:33 Namworld: Redundancy has sunk in. I am now afflicted like a disease by the redundancy sickness that is infection-like.

18:41:49 benkay: ;;google drinking record most important

18:41:50 gribble: History of alcoholic beverages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_alcoholic_beverages; Bob Hawke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hawke; History of Alcohol and Drinking around the World: http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/Controversies/1114796842.html

18:41:57 benkay: ;;google drinking record counterparty

18:41:58 gribble: A Reminder – The Most Important Word in Bitcoin, Again because Gox: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/02/25/a-reminder-the-most-important-word-in-bitcoin-again-because-gox/; Why Fractional Reserve Can't Work in Bitcoin | Bingo Blog: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/11/11/fractional-reserve-bitcoins/; February | 2014 | Bingo Blog: (1 more message)

18:42:06 benkay: no mircea_popescu google still sucks

18:42:08 Namworld: I can now speak of the same thing as if they were the same thing in multiple ways of saying that this same thing is the same thing.

18:42:21 Namworld: Thank you, ninjashogun.

18:43:54 ninjashogun: on later guys see you

18:44:22 Namworld: Later.

18:44:30 Namworld: I think I'll do the same.

18:44:37 Namworld: Goodbye everyone.

18:44:37 steven-__: http://dropbox.curry.com/ShowNotesArchive/2014/03/NA-601-2014-03-20/Assets/NH370/MH370%20lemon%20black%20hole.mp3

18:45:02 benkay: what is that, steven-__?

18:45:23 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves> if any one here were involved in Ethereum, they wouldn't be involved in Ethereum << that.

18:45:38 mircea_popescu: lmao Namworld

18:45:48 steven-__: some talking head talking about how mh370 and black hole talks about lost and twilight zone

18:46:00 mircea_popescu: steven-__ lmao. black hole, srsly ?!

18:46:08 mircea_popescu: are these people... braindead ?

18:46:16 steven-__: money talks

18:46:17 ughlol: most probably

18:46:18 steven-__: ratings are out of contorl

18:46:22 mircea_popescu: if a blackhole pops up anywhere in the atmosphere we'd likely hear about it.

18:46:27 mircea_popescu: and i literally mean HEAR. outdoors.

18:46:28 ughlol: lol ^

18:46:46 steven-__: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/business/media/cnns-ratings-surge-with-coverage-of-the-mystery-of-the-missing-airliner.html?_r=0

18:46:56 radan: Did Bitcoin Crash MH370? This Article Will Shock And Amaze You

18:46:59 mircea_popescu: so cnn aspires to be video-daily-mail.us ?

18:47:04 radan: regardsl gawker

18:47:06 steven-__: thats not until next week radan

18:47:24 steven-__: cnn aspires to be fox news

18:47:29 Namworld: We'd hear the outdoors moving... as a whole. but only very briefly.

18:47:46 Namworld: It could also happen almost at any time.

18:48:03 Namworld: You just have to live with it.

18:48:22 radan: the kazakh steppe is empty

18:48:41 radan: everyone in russia and the white part of the world in general is running to cities

18:48:50 radan: the countryside is completely empty in a lot of the world

18:49:02 radan: http://www.agrimoney.com/news/russian-land-selling-for-as-low-as-2percent-of-eu-values--5348.html

18:49:03 ozbot: Agrimoney.com | Russian farmland selling for as low as 2% of EU values

18:49:07 ThickAsThieves: CNN aspires. That's really the whole of it.

18:49:20 Namworld: But not everywhere is suitable to certain traditional lifestyles.

18:49:25 radan: voronezh chernozem going for $250 a hectare!

18:49:25 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so does a black hole.

18:49:29 radan: what the fuck is the world coming to

18:50:04 radan: a man can feed himself comfortably on 4 acres

18:50:05 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/bobmcmillan/status/447082049707327488

18:50:05 ozbot: Twitter / bobmcmillan: @BBoingo Hey man, I had that ...

18:50:09 radan: can feed a family on 20 acres

18:50:22 Namworld: radan, that's just demand and offer.

18:50:28 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/embed/AP7tKS74H7I << i had a dumb kid, and i decline any responsibility.

18:50:28 ozbot: Alleged Silk Road Founder's Mother Speaks Out - YouTube

18:51:06 radan: you can buy buy enough land to support your descendants in perpetuam for 2000 bucks

18:51:12 radan: absolutely ridiculous

18:51:12 asciilifeform: charming eastern tradition of obligatory seppuku should be adopted in the west.

18:51:26 asciilifeform: (re: silk road kid)

18:51:35 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/8440b5e0cace1cbdbdf8effa8b06918e/tumblr_ml3rz7K8C41rv0578o1_1280.jpg

18:51:38 radan: if I was going for agriculture instead of herding

18:51:43 Namworld: So, what's your view on the topic, Mircea? Can a parent decline responsibility for what their kids are?

18:51:49 radan: I would park my ass so quick on voronezh chernozem

18:51:51 Duffer1: wouldn't work without also a culture of shame

18:52:04 radan: whoever lifted me from it would be crowned king arthur

18:52:08 nubbins`: asciilifeform, you're always pasting bits of interesting text. got a reading list anywhere on your blog?

18:52:15 asciilifeform: radan: can you even put together a decent minefield for 2000? much less a real defense

18:52:16 ThickAsThieves: https://twitter.com/Bitcoin_Assets/status/447083116768034816

18:52:17 ozbot: Twitter / Bitcoin_Assets: @bobmcmillan @BBoingo Why?

18:52:23 mircea_popescu: Namworld sure, why not ?

18:52:33 mircea_popescu: better have a good reason or two ready tho

18:52:38 asciilifeform: nubbins`: the pasted text was from eduard limonov's book, 'disciplinary sanitarium'

18:52:39 mircea_popescu: seeing how anyone can decline their decline

18:52:47 Namworld: Yes, exactly.

18:52:47 ThickAsThieves: probly shoulda linked to fraudsters private convesation article...

18:52:48 radan: the janissaries parents were often times killed by the janissaries themself

18:53:00 asciilifeform: nubbins`: very quick & dirty on-the-spot translation. afaik there is no english version, official or otherwise

18:53:06 radan: ienicerii

18:53:08 nubbins`: ah, shame

18:53:13 asciilifeform: radan: there is a serbian song about exactly this!

18:53:25 nubbins`: anyway, you're always posting interesting snippets. would love to examine your bookshelf

18:53:28 Namworld: The reason or two being: 1. Having done everything without success 2. Not having been the legal guardian and involved at all

18:53:36 BingoBoingo: So @bobmcmillan seems to be under the impression we had a long DM conversation. Is he confusing me with mircea_popescu

18:53:37 Namworld: Other than genetic involvement.

18:53:56 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ask him neh ?

18:54:07 ThickAsThieves: he's confusing his private conversation with being as topical as Emily's public one

18:54:13 asciilifeform: nubbins`: a good chunk of my bookshelf, as your probably also, is in ascii.

18:54:30 mircea_popescu: there's oil in that bookshale!

18:54:44 asciilifeform: nubbins`: another reason to learn russian. you can read virtually any book ever printed, originally in virtually any language, for free, searchable.

18:54:46 nubbins`: a good chunk of mine is actually in .epub format, but through the wondrous Calibre, conversion is but a click away

18:54:57 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> nubbins`: another reason to learn russian. you can read virtually any book ever printed, originally in virtually any language, for free, searchable. <<< this.

18:55:08 mircea_popescu: romanian has a similar, but proprotionalyl reduced advantage.

18:55:22 mircea_popescu: as romanians don't really translate eastern stuff and happily ignore us stuff

18:55:53 radan: русский язьiк очень приятной

18:55:59 radan: думаю я

18:56:18 mircea_popescu: язык :p

18:56:27 asciilifeform: 'я русский бы выучил только за то что им разговаривал ленин.'

18:56:54 dignork: that's mine! well, Mayakovskovki's...

18:56:54 mircea_popescu: how was that quote, i speak french to my horse, german to my wife and russian to the chickens ?

18:57:23 radan: lermontov is the best author

18:57:28 radan: east of the vistula

18:57:32 Namworld: Well bob just answered you, BingoBoingo

18:58:02 dignork: Маяковский

18:58:11 asciilifeform: radan: bulgarian? perhaps you can tell me how come every statue in bulgaria has a beautifully depressing song that comes with it.

18:58:40 mircea_popescu: ok not a bad question.

18:58:42 BingoBoingo: Namworld: This new twitter conversation organizer breaks too much for clarity

18:58:43 radan: lol

18:58:49 radan: you're probably asking about that

18:58:50 radan: andryusha

18:58:54 radan: statue or wtv

18:59:12 asciilifeform: radan: 'alyosha.' 'lilia.' etc

18:59:23 radan: we're a soulful people ^^

18:59:39 mircea_popescu: "we used to be great but everyone raped us, for the past millenium. even the romanians"

18:59:53 Namworld: Every people is soulful

19:00:03 radan: I don't think the vlachs had any influence on modern bulgaria

19:00:15 radan: beyond the genetic

19:00:25 radan: the slavic influence on romanian is much greater than the reverse

19:00:27 asciilifeform: e.g. http://sovmusic.ru/download.php?fname=alesha ; http://sovmusic.ru/download.php?fname=lyubimay ; etc

19:00:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 59 @ 0.0052101 = 0.3074 BTC [+] {2}

19:00:32 radan: but that's language.

19:00:38 radan: which is a cultural construct and thus irrelevant

19:00:45 asciilifeform: sov. music about dead ww2 folks tends to be cheerful

19:00:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's because the composers were drunk.

19:00:58 asciilifeform: bulgaria... total 'депресняк'

19:01:01 radan: I prefer to focus on our ancient brotherhood than any arbitrary divisions imposed by the western world

19:02:54 radan: there was once a time when herders crossed from the carpathians to the balkans at will

19:03:17 radan: and farmers on both sides of the brother saw themselves as the same people

19:03:28 radan: were it not for the turks

19:03:30 radan: it might yet be so

19:03:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00624389 = 0.6244 BTC [+] {13}

19:03:57 radan: *border

19:04:23 mircea_popescu: there definitely was. see miorita etc

19:04:23 nubbins`: well, i have to say i'm questioning the wisdom of a recipe that calls for 1/4 cup of soy sauce AND a tablespoon of salt

19:04:30 mircea_popescu: btw, got a link to the bulgarian version ?

19:04:36 nubbins`: so it should be interesting to see how these moose steaks turn out.

19:04:37 asciilifeform: virtually all of the bulgars i've ever met looked exactly like every turk i ever met...

19:04:39 mircea_popescu: but a good one, preferably an 1800 notation.

19:04:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's talking of an idealised pre-turkish time obv.

19:05:02 asciilifeform: aha, a la greece, ok

19:05:12 mircea_popescu: otherwise "bulgaroi cu ceafa groasa" etc.

19:05:34 asciilifeform: lol

19:05:39 radan: there hasn't been any turkish genetic impact on bulgaria

19:05:51 mircea_popescu: ah come on.

19:06:00 asciilifeform: i, too, would like to visit the parallel universe where the ottomans didn't happen.

19:06:30 mircea_popescu: i would like to visit the paralel universe where the arab invasion of egypt didn't happen, and the original tall lanky egyptians still roamed free

19:06:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899 = 0.118 BTC [+]

19:06:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes! i wanted this as a kid even.

19:06:53 radan: whenever a turk married a bulgarian (or greek, or romanian, or serb etc.)

19:06:58 radan: the kid was considered turkish

19:07:08 radan: that's one of the reasons turkey has 70 million people

19:07:14 radan: and bulgaria, 7 million

19:07:23 nubbins`: twurkey

19:07:30 Radi777: just looked on this channel and you guys made me laugh

19:07:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.058999 = 0.295 BTC [+]

19:07:42 mircea_popescu: Radi777 we live to serve.

19:08:11 nubbins`: ah, i see the s.mg bet is slowly growing larger

19:08:12 Radi777: this guy saying every bulgarian he met looks turkish lol either have seen only gypsies or turkish bulgarians, no real turkish looks like a real bulgarian..big difference

19:08:29 radan: there are dark bulgarians, for sure

19:08:39 radan: they're usually haplogroup E and from the macedonian part of BG

19:08:46 asciilifeform: radan: do you still have the underground churches over there?

19:08:48 Radi777: but its ok for me blacks look the same, and assians....LOL

19:08:57 asciilifeform: the ones that were required to be 'no taller than a mounted horseman'

19:09:01 radan: I personally don't consider macedonians to be my people

19:09:18 radan: anything south of the balkans is basically greece

19:09:58 mircea_popescu: Radi777 turkish secret service guy in istanbul volunteered that i'm definitely not turkish, he bets i'm bulgarian.

19:10:01 steven-__: Radi777: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect

19:10:14 mircea_popescu: so while the difference exists and they themselves can tell it, it may be the case that for the rest of the world a pigeon is a pigeon.

19:11:00 radan: dr. popescu, is your family from wallachia?

19:11:10 mircea_popescu: nah. i'm from transylvania

19:11:11 Radi777: yea cross-race effect that's why i said the joke about blacks and asians lol

19:11:23 radan: ardealul, eh?

19:11:26 radan: not bad

19:11:37 mircea_popescu: well how could it be bad lol

19:11:42 radan: have you heard stefan hrusca

19:11:46 mircea_popescu: sure.

19:12:15 radan: "tu ardeal, tu ardealm, iti suntem osteni, templu sfant, templu sfant, muntii Apuseni."

19:12:27 mircea_popescu: yes yes, well, that's a little like feelings.

19:12:46 mircea_popescu: if you understand romanian you'll prolly better appreciate actual stuff like http://www.youtube.com/embed/4z0WmWUT2rM

19:13:34 rithm: no one understands that gibberish quit joking around

19:13:40 radan: lol

19:13:43 radan: I'll take a listen

19:13:55 asciilifeform: anyone fansub?

19:14:12 rithm: what are saying deprecated ocopus-noodle language

19:14:13 BingoBoingo: I prolly ought to throw this link up as a courtesy for journos and SEC https://gist.github.com/leffuy/750a4291264fa2de03a5

19:15:06 radan: umm

19:16:04 radan: kinda funny, I guess

19:16:12 radan: where do you find this stuff

19:16:13 rithm: good read BingoBoingo

19:16:34 mircea_popescu: teh girls find it for me.

19:16:34 BingoBoingo: rithm: thestringpuller collected it

19:17:17 radan: I like romanian music tho

19:17:18 mircea_popescu: lol pretty epic github

19:17:29 rithm: My personal fave: Because these idiots won?t fucking die already, everyone else has to be inconvenienced. I deeply regret this. If it were practical I?d just kill them all with my own hand. Unfortunately, it is not practical, and so with my deepest and most sincere apologies to sane people everywhere I have to modify the MPEx FAQ.

19:17:30 radan: it's what bulgarian music would sound like if it wasn't for the turks, I think

19:17:38 mircea_popescu: radan well, let's see then... hmm... prolly bug mafia for oyu.

19:17:55 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr0g1Qt59MQ

19:17:55 ozbot: B.U.G. Mafia - N-ai Fost Acolo - YouTube

19:18:13 Namworld: For one who said there is no purpose, you sure are quite obsessed with race. For one who said how being manly and fearless and getting girls is important, you sure seem afraid and lost as to how to act in a modern society to get it. For one who said modern culture is dust, you sure seem eager to go away and adopt an old one almost not practicioned anymore. There's nothing wrong with

19:18:13 Namworld: feeling like you don't belong and choosing to live the lifestyle you want, but your arguments about what's wrong with the world are off. The world isn't wrong, it is simply wrong for you.

19:18:32 Namworld: You can't shape yourself to fit in where you don't belong. Or at least shouldn't.

19:18:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: blew my mind how much of it i was able to digest

19:18:45 mircea_popescu: Namworld is getting trolled into booklet length responses by now i see.

19:19:00 radan: your "for X you sure are X" statements don't even make sense

19:19:12 radan: moving on

19:19:47 asciilifeform: it/sp/ro, etc. 'singable' languages are very amenable to the soviet linguist (hard head, wall, dictionary) treatment

19:19:59 radan: have you heard vali sterian, dr. popescu?

19:20:34 mircea_popescu: yeah.

19:20:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is true.

19:21:04 mircea_popescu: of course romanian has, much like russian, a very rich subtextrual register

19:21:12 asciilifeform: i can tell, yes

19:21:14 radan: lol

19:21:19 radan: this rap's nice

19:21:21 mircea_popescu: greatly helped along by the fact that every other noun means either cunt, whore or fucking

19:21:30 Namworld: My point is that you're contradicting yourself. You're saying the world is wrong, not you, because they don't fit your ideal. While there is technically no one that is right or wrong.

19:21:52 radan: didn't know Romania had a hip hop scene

19:21:56 mircea_popescu: lolk.

19:22:27 mircea_popescu: next you're going toi tell me you didn't know romania had a warez scene and we can all go to bed.

19:22:33 asciilifeform: loll

19:22:58 Namworld: It's more of a question of individuality and who you are, which is not falling close to the average.

19:23:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07489527 = 0.1498 BTC [-] {2}

19:24:53 radan: thanks for the analysis, freud

19:26:05 radan: "unde sunt doi romani, este romania"

19:26:17 Namworld: You say that there is no purpose other than spreading genes, yet you're obsessed with promoting an arbitrarily sized sample of people with similar genes. You could scale up or down with a more specific or more generic group and call it promoting close genes all the same.

19:26:32 radan: that's actually true

19:26:43 radan: and I'm impressed that you thought it out enough to reach that conclusion

19:26:59 radan: but I've thought about it a lot longer than you have

19:27:12 radan: let's say you help out someone who'se close to you

19:27:15 rithm: i like sex

19:27:16 radan: and they don't have any kids

19:27:19 radan: then the investment is ruined

19:27:19 asciilifeform: radan: variation on the theme of Po's 'Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła'

19:28:17 radan: all nationalism is a variation on itself

19:28:23 radan: that doesn't stop it from being beautiful

19:28:25 radan: at times

19:28:31 mircea_popescu: radan so oscar wilde had no kids.

19:28:48 mircea_popescu: actually he was a nigger faggot jew afair.

19:28:53 radan: lol

19:28:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00092986 = 8.7872 BTC [-] {2}

19:28:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00328258 = 9.8477 BTC [-] {23}

19:29:02 Namworld: You said it was important to be manly and fearless to get girls, yet seemed confused as how to date in modern society. Your personality doesn't fit the modern culture. You say the culture is bad. Perhaps that is true, but you've given no justifications to it. Just that it doesn't fit you.

19:29:24 radan: I'm not sure where you get that I'm confused about daring from

19:29:35 radan: I've had girlfriends since middle school

19:29:36 Namworld: I seem to recall... hmm, let me check

19:29:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1578 @ 0.00320092 = 5.0511 BTC [-] {8}

19:29:59 radan: I'm not saying american girls are worthless or anything

19:30:06 radan: I'm never gonna marry one though

19:30:14 Namworld: I didn't say otherwise, just unsure about the best way to go about it and not liking how it's done.

19:30:20 mircea_popescu: saving yourself for that special guy ?

19:30:27 Namworld: Re, entering a relationship.

19:30:28 radan: of course ^^

19:30:44 radan: in actuality, even if I get a girl pregnant here

19:31:04 radan: the leaders of this country have implemented a massive social security system

19:31:09 radan: so really

19:31:19 radan: there's no need to raise a kid as a father per se in obama's america

19:31:19 mircea_popescu: well... but it's still your girl lol.

19:31:41 Namworld: Which is my whole point. It's all personality related. There's not really any right or wrong, re the way of living you choose.

19:31:52 radan: no, there is no objective right or wrong

19:32:02 radan: that's not going to stop me from doing what I think is best

19:32:06 radan: namely

19:32:09 Namworld: Yes, exactly.

19:32:14 radan: trying to save my people's genetic livelihood

19:32:23 radan: and when I see westerners acting like faggots or women

19:32:28 radan: I'll call them out on it

19:32:46 radan: it's a free world.

19:33:00 radan: if they want to stop me from hurting people's feelings

19:33:05 radan: or whatever the current casus belli is

19:33:16 Namworld: Yes, pretty much, live and let live. Not shape yourself to fit where you don't belong. Voice your opinion.

19:33:33 radan: they can kill me, until then I'm a free man.

19:33:40 radan: I don't get your point Namworld

19:35:00 radan: I'm already doing that

19:35:12 Namworld: I'm calling you out on calling the world is going bad or people are wrong-headed when it is doing so only by your standards, which are arbitrary.

19:35:24 radan: they're not arbitrary

19:35:27 radan: they're subjective

19:35:29 radan: there's a difference

19:36:49 Namworld: You understood that I meant you've set those standards' limits where you pleased.

19:37:47 Namworld: Which yes, is based on your subjective point of view.

19:38:31 Namworld: So not really arbitrary as in a random absolute rule set out without any reason.

19:39:34 radan: from my moral outlook

19:39:45 radan: which is the same as that of my ancestors thousands of years back

19:39:59 radan: modern society is feminized and shit

19:40:06 radan: from your moral outlook

19:40:14 radan: we're proceeding infinitely leftward on an uninterrupted train to Toleranceville.

19:40:37 radan: an objective observer can decide for himself which of these opinions is the more realistic one

19:40:52 asciilifeform: radan: wait till you find out what passes for organized resistance to this crap in the usa

19:41:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.01687349 = 0.1687 BTC [-] {4}

19:41:36 asciilifeform: radan: me, i'm a believer in 'salvation of the drowning is work for the hands of the drowning' - but if you want organized - straight to limonov et al.

19:41:51 radan: read some spengler

19:41:59 radan: and evola, if you want to get into the metaphysics of it

19:42:03 radan: they're great

19:42:11 asciilifeform: i sort of assume everyone here has read both

19:42:25 asciilifeform: or at least, a good selection of each

19:42:42 asciilifeform: but i tend to assume thing that turn out to be mistake

19:42:42 Namworld: No, from my point of view we're progressing toward less famine, poverty and sickness through technology, and better understanding of our nature as an animal. Which in turn decreases violence, torture, wars and hate, as a side effect.

19:42:54 asciilifeform: trololol

19:43:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07489628 = 0.2247 BTC [+]

19:43:40 Namworld: I don't think we can eliminate those things, short of simply eradicating ourselves.

19:43:52 Namworld: You seem to find this funny?

19:44:10 asciilifeform: the funny part is the supposed progress

19:44:14 asciilifeform: but nm.

19:44:47 Namworld: It depends what you consider progress.

19:45:10 mircea_popescu: i don't get what the trouble with tolerance is in the first place.

19:45:18 radan: it's a fantasy

19:45:24 mircea_popescu: some of the best houses for the history of western thought were tolerance houses.

19:45:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he was speaking of 'tolerasty'

19:45:41 mircea_popescu: a well. then he should say that :p

19:45:46 asciilifeform: толерастия

19:45:50 Namworld: Some would say loss of culture and traditional way of living is not progress. Me, I don't feel fondly attached to any culture particularly.

19:46:14 mircea_popescu: http://articles.prediger.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/tolerast.jpg

19:46:19 mircea_popescu: teh iconic tolerasty cartoon

19:46:43 asciilifeform: терпила == literal trans. of 'patient'

19:46:54 asciilifeform: in my ad hoc lexicun, 'chumpatronium'

19:46:54 Namworld: Anything that reduce the motive behind wars, hate and violence is progress. Most technological progress have done just that so far.

19:47:00 asciilifeform: *lexicon

19:47:14 radan: "I don't feel fondly attached to any culture particularly."

19:47:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012986 = 0.6493 BTC [-] {9}

19:47:16 mircea_popescu: torpila, in romanian, torpedo. funny how that works.

19:47:18 radan: of course you don't

19:47:30 radan: yet you would feel deeply uncomfortable outside of the west

19:47:31 mircea_popescu: "that's because you're a rootless cosmpolitan!"

19:47:33 mircea_popescu: amirite ?

19:47:40 radan: is he?

19:47:52 mircea_popescu: well isn't that the criteria ?

19:48:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in rus., the useless winglet sometimes found on a car is often called torpedo. same in ro ?

19:48:10 radan: I think he's a bit more perceptive than your average happy merchant

19:48:28 radan: a merchant would've called me an anti-semite by now

19:48:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the bug mafia band quoted earlier discusses, in a song about cars, "sau vre-o torpila dunarita, la volan o fata, mai tata"

19:48:42 asciilifeform: lol

19:48:44 mircea_popescu: in this context torpila means ancient but workable car

19:48:46 mircea_popescu: such as a volga

19:48:49 Namworld: radan, are you sure about that? What is it with all those assumptions?

19:49:09 mircea_popescu: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cRI_J0nwBY‎ < in there

19:49:18 radan: I went to a jewish high school

19:49:21 radan: my roomate is a jew

19:49:28 radan: I know how they think

19:50:21 Namworld: Knowing a jew does not make you know how they all think.

19:50:36 mircea_popescu: i once was with a girl so i know how THEY think!

19:50:43 radan: I'd imagine you do

19:50:51 radan: it's not exactly hard to figure out

19:51:00 Namworld: You talk as if jews where a single entity. One person with one mind.

19:51:04 mircea_popescu: i also had a computer so i know how those think too

19:51:28 radan: when you spend 7 hours a day for four years with representatives of a certain group

19:51:32 radan: you get to know the similarities

19:51:36 radan: and the individual vagaries

19:51:37 mircea_popescu: elected or otherwise ?

19:51:39 radan: of their thought

19:51:46 Namworld: THERE IS NO REPRESENTATIVE FOR GROUPS OF PEOPLE

19:51:52 radan: OH MY GOD

19:51:56 radan: CAN YOU JUST NOT

19:51:58 mircea_popescu: Namworld what of bitcoin jesus then ?

19:52:01 radan: - so done -

19:52:14 radan: regardsm, tumblr

19:52:24 Namworld: One person and another from the same group can be complete opposite.

19:52:46 mircea_popescu: Namworld not in sid meyer's civilisation...

19:53:00 asciilifeform: 'you are on speaking terms with the night, as with an old enemy.' 'you sit in front of a machine that throws electrons in your face, all day, every day.' (former colleague's list of 'ye are a programmer if...')

19:53:10 Namworld: They're not all born with the same ideologies and values as their ancestors

19:53:12 asciilifeform: (re: 'how computer thinks')

19:53:20 radan: no, they're not

19:53:23 radan: they're raised in them

19:53:37 radan: saying "there's no similarities between individuals in a group" is a logical fallacy

19:53:57 radan: "nba players are just like any other people, some of them can shoot a basketball, some of them can't"

19:54:04 radan: "if you say otherwise you are racist"

19:54:39