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Transcript for 21-04-2014, 1570 lines:

00:04:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.00099361 = 16.0468 BTC [+]

00:26:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.04260302 = 0.1704 BTC [-] {2}

00:29:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06695 = 0.1339 BTC [-] {2}

00:31:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0686799 = 0.1374 BTC [+]

01:08:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00099475 = 12.5836 BTC [+] {2}

01:09:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04489993 = 0.1347 BTC [+]

01:10:01 thestringpuller: hey BingoBoingo

01:10:09 BingoBoingo: hey thestringpuller

01:10:14 thestringpuller: you should see it. you'd love it

01:10:55 BingoBoingo: I guess I have to now

01:11:03 thestringpuller: makes me secretly root for the Athletics

01:11:07 thestringpuller: Go Oakland

01:11:10 thestringpuller: along with the Braves lol

01:25:05 BingoBoingo: Yeah, Oakland seems to be a lot of people's "other favorite"

01:40:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06612 = 0.1984 BTC [-]

01:41:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4900012 BTC [+]

01:42:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00099533 = 10.3017 BTC [+]

02:08:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.49 = 1.96 BTC [-]

02:11:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 33 @ 0.06784682 = 2.2389 BTC [+] {5}

02:22:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14781 @ 0.00099384 = 14.6899 BTC [-] {2}

02:29:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00491234 = 0.4912 BTC [-] {8}

02:48:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0671 = 0.671 BTC [-]

02:50:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 27190 @ 0.00016371 = 4.4513 BTC [+] {4}

02:53:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.06546913 = 0.9166 BTC [-] {13}

02:57:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.03408166 = 0.2045 BTC [+] {4}

02:59:20 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: who is your team?

03:00:00 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Cardinals.

03:02:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.03749999 = 0.1125 BTC [+]

03:03:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03781332 = 0.4538 BTC [+] {4}

03:03:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11904 @ 0.00099357 = 11.8275 BTC [-]

03:06:14 thestringpuller: haha that was one of the best series' last season

03:10:35 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Yeah, I always like our series with the braves, because it is always two solid high performing teams.

03:11:10 BingoBoingo: None of this Marlins bullshit where everything is predicated on Fernandez pitching and Stanton hitting.

03:20:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04256766 = 0.1277 BTC [-] {3}

03:21:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0672 = 0.1344 BTC [+] {2}

03:28:06 benkay: well

03:28:12 benkay: what does q2 have in store for us?

03:30:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00099357 = 14.0093 BTC [-]

03:39:20 BingoBoingo: benkay: Is there an emoticon for the awkward turtle?

03:45:00 benkay: not that i'd know, BingoBoingo

03:45:11 benkay: the depth of my emoticon language is like >.>

03:45:50 BingoBoingo: benkay: Well my prediction for the US 2014 Q2 - 2015 Q3 is plenty of awkwardness.

03:46:46 benkay: whaddaya mean by awkwardness though? derpy 'founder's of more tender years than i?

03:47:54 benkay: or just this dancing-around-trying-to-grab-each-others-nuts that is the price finding game in the absence of a clear price signal

03:51:47 BingoBoingo: benkay: I'm just thinking of what Putin is doing in Ukraine vs. Bush-Obama in the US. It's going to force a lot of soul searching at the top of the US about the essence of being a super power when mapped onto results.

03:55:34 BingoBoingo: I doubt action of the favoritism that promotes golden toilet worship, this tension has been around awhile (see the late Col Hackworth)

03:58:01 BingoBoingo: I'd be on the lookout for quiet, coded realizations in print that the US fell out of Superpower status without the fanfare of other's who have left the club in the past.

03:58:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00099515 = 15.7234 BTC [+] {3}

04:02:02 BingoBoingo: benkay: The economic grabass in the US will probably follow from this and the already documented economic malstructuring

04:07:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4172 @ 0.00099548 = 4.1531 BTC [+] {2}

04:13:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5834 @ 0.0009955 = 5.8077 BTC [+]

04:13:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.02984668 = 0.7462 BTC [-] {10}

04:25:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00099357 = 7.6505 BTC [-]

04:26:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.4999999 = 1 BTC [+]

05:03:45 bitcoinpete: ;;later tell benkay i'll work on that :D

05:03:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:03:51 bitcoinpete: in case anyone missed this:

05:03:54 bitcoinpete: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/

05:03:55 ozbot: The Brokenness of MaidSafe | When Bitcoin Met Pete

05:04:31 bitcoinpete: maidsafe probably isn't going to gain much traction anyways, but i thought i'd call it out just to be sure.

05:06:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11393 @ 0.00099357 = 11.3197 BTC [-]

05:12:43 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: Doing so is always a good exercise

05:12:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06601051 = 0.6601 BTC [-]

05:13:23 bitcoinpete: BingoBoingo: gotta flex those muscles, touch those toes once in a while

05:13:32 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: Yeah

05:14:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5215 @ 0.00099521 = 5.19 BTC [+] {2}

05:15:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9534 @ 0.0009966 = 9.5016 BTC [+]

05:16:08 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: As a great man once said "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

05:17:53 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: The same person also said "When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to a bunch of little old ladies, at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity, and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag."

05:18:27 bitcoinpete: i'd love to hear some of the chinese profanity

05:19:24 bitcoinpete: was just watching videos of f-15s taking off the Liaoning

05:20:26 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: Really?

05:21:41 BingoBoingo: I was kind of just bringing up these quotes in the context of addressing scammers. It isn't enough to merely be better than the scammers through knowing. You have to make them answer for their purpose, and in doing so you have to use language that sticks

05:22:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.5 = 4.5 BTC [+]

05:22:38 bitcoinpete: greater good and good sport

05:23:36 bitcoinpete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIuK28hmicY

05:23:36 ozbot: Liaoning Carrier A Symbol of National Power - YouTube

05:24:39 bitcoinpete: it also turns out that in arabic "happy easter" means "happy passover"

05:24:40 bitcoinpete: http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook.htm

05:25:45 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: You know... Those planes aren't F-15's...

05:27:22 BingoBoingo: J-15's

05:28:37 bitcoinpete: j, yes...

05:28:52 BingoBoingo: In the big picture the differance is probably irrelevant

05:30:16 BingoBoingo: (The choice of differance over difference was intentional)

05:41:18 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: making a fuzz, lol

05:41:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06601051 = 0.3301 BTC [-]

05:43:27 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: always ;)

05:43:48 fluffypony: "DavidT: i guess yes you are making a fuzz unnecessarily. and asking nicely and calmly or doing more research may get you more info i reckon."

05:43:54 fluffypony: making a fuzz is going to be my new phrase

05:45:36 fluffypony: "The SAFEst thing for Bitcoiners to do is keep their coins, back-up their hard drives, and encrypt their important files using PGP/GPG. The SAFEst thing for you to do is to find a VC or go back to the drawing board." <- best line in the article

05:53:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00099456 = 19.195 BTC [-] {2}

05:58:09 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: ya the comments sections is getting better. it's fun to watch the flailers flail in there

06:09:15 bitcoinpete: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pj4L7C2twI#t=219

06:09:16 ozbot: Poo2Loo: Poo Party - YouTube

06:10:08 bitcoinpete: UNICEF poopy music video. there's gotta be a cryptocoin crowdsourcing idea in there somewhere. maybe asciilifeform's shitcoin?

06:15:05 Apocalyptic: asciilifeform doesn't strike me as the kind of person that would release a shitcoin

06:16:17 jurov: Apocalyptic he had another kind of shitcoin in mind

06:16:29 jurov: look it up on loper-os

06:17:03 bitcoinpete: ;;google loper-os shitcoin

06:17:03 gribble: Loper OS » Shitcoin: a Modest Proposal.: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988; Loper OS » On the fact that Bitcoin has a Kill Switch; and how to ...: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009; Loper OS » Idea: http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=9

06:23:38 bitcoinpete: .d

06:23:38 ozbot: 6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1434 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.3216% in 8d 12h 33m 24s

06:23:58 bitcoinpete: damn those govs can mine

06:23:59 jurov: i think he won't go throught with it, we convinced him that having to check every coin for encumbrances is impractical

06:25:05 BingoBoingo: I also think he came around to an objection to shitcoin on first principles eventually.

06:25:50 jurov: i see he added himself "they will be worth less"

06:28:41 jurov: but i can't imagine being a merchant to weigh every customer's reputation how much less are his coins worth

06:30:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15948 @ 0.00099302 = 15.8367 BTC [-] {2}

06:36:26 BingoBoingo: Well, worth less is far from worthless

06:37:55 jurov: but how much less? that's completely handwaved over

06:39:08 BingoBoingo: Well, how much is Litecoin worth? These things have to be handwaved, because such matters are indeterminate until practice forces them

06:39:09 BingoBoingo: reeses: Last week's panic over taking National Guard Attack helicopters: There is still a nuclear armed National Guard Unit.

06:39:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 62 @ 0.00485 = 0.3007 BTC [-]

06:39:22 BingoBoingo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/131st_Fighter_Wing

06:39:22 ozbot: 131st Bomb Wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

06:39:46 BingoBoingo: Damn auto correct highlighting reeses instead of allowing RE:

06:39:51 jurov: BingoBoingo: litecoins don't expire on a whim of investors

06:40:22 jurov: and their value does not depends on who is offering them

06:41:15 BingoBoingo: Are you sure litecoins don't expire on the whims of investors/speculators? 1 LTC = 1 LTC, but beyond that... Who pumps them at a particular time seems to affect their value quite a bit.

06:41:51 jurov: so you see no difference between them and ascii's shitcoins?

06:42:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.51375488 = 3.0825 BTC [+] {3}

06:42:38 fluffypony: reeses pieces

06:43:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51375489 BTC [+]

06:43:40 jurov: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23g30d/dear_regulated_exchanges_if_you_hold_coins/cgwp8jp interesting tidbit about cavirtex

06:43:41 ozbot: justusranvier comments on Dear REGULATED Exchanges if you hold coins hostage until people are verifi

06:45:10 jurov: https://i.imgur.com/yi9hscm.png and this..lmao

06:45:20 BingoBoingo: jurov: I see differences, the primary one being that at least shitcoins represent BTC denominated balances

06:45:44 fluffypony: jurov: yeah, there's lots of fuss about Cavirtex allowing deposits without the person being approved, and then they can't withdraw their deposit

06:46:11 jurov: but "bitcoin deposits from utside canada are prohibited"?

06:46:38 fluffypony: yes, they're obviously a bit retarded or very, very sneaky

06:47:14 fluffypony: they have a regulatory requirement to only deal with Canadians, so I don't understand why they even show the deposit screen/address for unverified customers

06:47:22 fluffypony: surely it's one line of PHP/Ruby/whatever they use

06:47:32 fluffypony: if (isverified == true) { }

06:47:35 BingoBoingo: Well, they are the fuckers who ran with the money they raised on Havelock aren't they?

06:47:47 jurov: BingoBoingo indeed

06:48:01 fluffypony: yep

06:48:22 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: PHP and Ruby are the wrong tools for an "exchange"

06:48:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 83 @ 0.00485 = 0.4026 BTC [-]

06:48:37 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: agreed

06:48:49 fluffypony: well, they're fine for the front-end bits, as long as they don't do any actual work

06:49:19 jurov: throw dude.js on that list

06:49:19 BingoBoingo: PHP ======= MagicalFux, Ruby ===== {Kumala}

06:49:40 fluffypony: heh

06:50:08 BingoBoingo: I dunno why otherwise reasonable seeming people take to liking shit.js

06:50:32 fluffypony: I hate it

06:52:26 fluffypony: I do have an unbridled love for php for front-end work (Laravel for structure, Blade for templating), but business logic/actual work should never be done in the front-end

06:52:31 fluffypony: separation of liabilities

06:54:06 BingoBoingo: Well, A lot of things on the internet are better not existing on the web level at all.

06:54:57 fluffypony: true

06:55:20 fluffypony: it seems that everything is http services layered on top of or replacing other protocols nowadays

06:55:27 fluffypony: "Bitcoin's a great protocol! Here's a web wallet."

06:56:07 BingoBoingo: Not even that. The You Can Message Someone on Facebook, as a replacement for email is a catalyst of suck.

06:56:15 fluffypony: eugh

06:56:20 fluffypony: so glad I'm not on Facebook

06:56:23 BingoBoingo: Webmail as a substitute for Pine is another.

06:56:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56057 @ 0.00099551 = 55.8053 BTC [+] {3}

07:09:46 BingoBoingo: 3D printing propaganda: http://3dprint.com/2438/50-prosthetic-3d-printed-hand/

07:14:28 BingoBoingo: http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/04/21/0017239/42000-prosthetic-hand-outperformed-by-50-3d-printed-hand#

07:14:29 ozbot: $42,000 Prosthetic Hand Outperformed By $50 3D Printed Hand - Slashdot

07:14:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8509 @ 0.00099669 = 8.4808 BTC [+] {2}

07:14:54 BingoBoingo: "This drives me crazy when people don't include the costs of labor. It would be like someone getting a car donated to them and saying "Wow cars only cost $200 for a title and registration! Why do people pay thousands of dollars for a car!?" Because someone gave you one for free!"

07:17:20 BingoBoingo: I like how all of these discussions ignore the proper use of a hand which is satisfying a girl, so that you can use the girl to satisfy yourself.

07:20:01 BingoBoingo: !up Diablo-D3

07:20:01 assbot: Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.

07:20:07 Diablo-D3: meh.

07:20:18 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: It's something

07:20:22 Diablo-D3: Trying to figure out how to identify with gribble

07:20:41 BingoBoingo: Well, you GPG or BC addy register?

07:20:52 BingoBoingo: ;;gettrust assbot Diablo-D3

07:20:52 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Diablo-D3 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 | Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011

07:21:06 Diablo-D3: my gpg is registered, but I dont keep the key on my laptop for obvious reasons

07:21:09 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Looks like you can self up if you auth

07:21:27 Diablo-D3: oh, so I just need an account on wot?

07:21:32 BingoBoingo: Yeah

07:21:35 Diablo-D3: and I dont have to actually authenticate?

07:21:47 BingoBoingo: Well, you authenticate to gribble

07:22:02 BingoBoingo: Key management is and ought to be a personal thing

07:22:18 Diablo-D3: last time I had to authenticate on gribble I needed to sign a message with my pgp key

07:22:20 Diablo-D3: which is absurd

07:22:22 BingoBoingo: Better and worse solutions existing

07:22:42 BingoBoingo: I honestly usually use the decrypt option.

07:22:50 Diablo-D3: er, right, that thing

07:22:56 Diablo-D3: its been awhile since Ive given a shit about it

07:23:41 Diablo-D3: the bot should just be set to autovoice me

07:23:43 BingoBoingo: it is truly amazing how much text you can pass on a printed page

07:23:43 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

07:23:53 Diablo-D3: [03:17:34] <BingoBoingo> I like how all of these discussions ignore the proper use of a hand which is satisfying a girl, so that you can use the girl to satisfy yourself.

07:24:34 Diablo-D3: I have satisfied a girl with my hands before

07:24:41 Diablo-D3: its not what I'm known for, however.

07:26:10 BingoBoingo: Well, hand (clean) explores vagina to determine if clean or not, Mouth (clean) explores dick to determine if clean or not

07:26:54 BingoBoingo: These customs arise for reasons.

07:27:52 BingoBoingo: !up HeySteve

07:27:52 assbot: Voicing HeySteve for 30 minutes.

07:30:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00099684 = 12.0618 BTC [+] {2}

07:31:25 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: My biggest criticism of "paleo" is that practitioners emphasize dietary bullshit over actual factors contributing to human success like hygeine.

07:31:47 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: not at all

07:32:44 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: like, I use fluoride free toothpaste and detergent free soap

07:33:50 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Honestly I really dun give a shit about that anyways, detergents are just surfactants that aren't derived from fatty acids, as a class detergent is a meaningless designation

07:34:14 BingoBoingo: !up punkman1

07:34:14 assbot: Voicing punkman1 for 30 minutes.

07:34:25 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: this is true, but what Im saying is, I use dr bronner's.

07:35:53 BingoBoingo: Eh, I'm the sort that instead of using gold bond powders the nuts with zeasorb, because it offers moar power

07:36:15 Diablo-D3: yeah, and Ive never actually had that problem

07:37:45 BingoBoingo: I've never had a problem either beyond nuts sticking to thighs, because moist. The aim though is not merely to survive, but to make the worst case impossible.

07:39:48 BingoBoingo: Better living through knowledge of chemistry and all of that

07:39:57 Diablo-D3: I agree

07:40:02 Diablo-D3: but the problem is, you have to find what works

07:40:22 Diablo-D3: paleo is about using products that dont cause some sort of immune response or arent otherwise toxic

07:40:58 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: some people DO get this wrong and get weirdly hippy about it

07:41:07 Diablo-D3: they arent doing paleo, they're just being hippies

07:41:26 BingoBoingo: Eh, I mix poison ivy into salad at least once a year.

07:42:09 BingoBoingo: I try to keep my immune system in a state as close to total war as possible

07:42:18 Diablo-D3: yes, and thats a thing

07:42:30 Diablo-D3: I prefer removing as many irritants as possible

07:42:35 Diablo-D3: so my body CAN have an immune response

07:43:34 BingoBoingo: Immune response is important, but it has to point the right direction

07:44:03 Diablo-D3: like, grains/sugars/etc really fuck up your immune response

07:44:35 BingoBoingo: Nah, that shit's fuel. If that is your definition of an irritant...

07:46:18 BingoBoingo: I mean denying the monder human body that shit is asking for portal vein hypertension

07:50:23 BingoBoingo: Onto another topic, Diablo-D3 what would be your ideal computer for offline signing and decryption?

07:50:51 fluffypony: !up Diablo-D3

07:50:51 assbot: Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.

07:51:14 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: isnt one.

07:51:31 Diablo-D3: [03:44:49] <BingoBoingo> Nah, that shit's fuel. If that is your definition of an irritant...

07:51:36 Diablo-D3: it can be a fuel but its not the most efficient

07:51:45 fluffypony: this just sounds like it's going to go into the "make your own silicon, write your own OS" territory

07:51:49 Diablo-D3: the only carbs I intake are naturally in vegs

07:51:54 Diablo-D3: fluffypony: it basically is BUT

07:51:55 Diablo-D3: you cant

07:52:02 fluffypony: exactly

07:52:08 Diablo-D3: because shit is only secure when everyone on the planet has audited it and said so

07:52:09 BingoBoingo: My favorite veggie is maize

07:52:14 Diablo-D3: I will say though, and Ive been saying this for awhile

07:52:23 Diablo-D3: dont use openssl, use nss

07:52:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4870 @ 0.00099801 = 4.8603 BTC [+] {2}

07:52:31 fluffypony: so taking a step back from that ideal, Raspberry Pi/BeagleBone Black?

07:52:34 BingoBoingo: Nah, rolling your own silicon should be possible by nao

07:53:15 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: neither. Pick beast from the 80's and write it to a cheap FPGA dev board

07:53:31 fluffypony: mebbe

07:53:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2294 @ 0.00099948 = 2.2928 BTC [+]

07:53:59 fluffypony: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_computing_hardware

07:53:59 ozbot: Open-source computing hardware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

07:54:31 fluffypony: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkymist <- interesting

07:54:31 ozbot: M-Labs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

07:54:32 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: If BFL taught us anything it is that it takes little to make dedicated silicon for a dream architecture.

07:54:53 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: sure, in quantity, but if you're rolling it yourself for your own purposes?

07:55:23 Diablo-D3: fluffypony: something like the rpi works

07:55:28 Diablo-D3: its unlikely theres any major problems with it

07:55:33 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Why advertise it as that? Posit the thing as a student architecture.

07:55:49 Diablo-D3: although all nics ARE backdoored and can DMA anywhere in ram

07:55:58 BingoBoingo: An actual top down version of what RPi wants to be

07:56:16 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Yeah, ethernet is the big problem

07:56:16 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: someone needs to fab the silicon, and are you going to get an electron microscope to check that its to-spec?

07:56:33 Diablo-D3: you could strip the ethernet out and use usb to serial or w/e

07:56:48 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: RS-232

07:56:51 fluffypony: Diablo-D3: if we're going air-gapped for offline signing/decryption ethernet shouldn't be a concern

07:56:53 Diablo-D3: like I said, serial

07:56:56 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: niggers.txt

07:57:05 Diablo-D3: fluffypony: you have to update the software either way

07:57:10 fluffypony: Diablo-D3: true

07:57:16 Diablo-D3: fluffypony: and airgapped doesnt work with bitcoin

07:57:28 BingoBoingo: No, updating the software defeats an actual air gap

07:57:38 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: then hell

07:57:40 fluffypony: Diablo-D3: you can sign transactions offline

07:57:40 Diablo-D3: just use gpg on dos.

07:57:55 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Air gap on Dos can work

07:57:56 Diablo-D3: (yes, theres a gpg build out there somewhere for dos)

07:58:16 BingoBoingo: C is a more portable language than Java

07:58:29 fluffypony: http://s3.computerhistory.org/source/msdos.zip

07:58:30 Diablo-D3: claiming java isnt portable, however, is a bad argument

07:58:44 Diablo-D3: because, sadly, it really does work on tons of shit

07:58:49 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Not at all. I am jsut claiming C is more portable.

07:58:49 Diablo-D3: why? I dont know

07:58:59 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: C is portable to shit that should not be running C

07:59:29 Diablo-D3: anything written in modern C simply will not work on them without a lot of help

07:59:46 Diablo-D3: 99.9% of shit will break if char is not 8 bit, short is not 16 bit, and int is not 32 bit

07:59:56 fluffypony: "You should be also be cautioned that the MSDOS stack is not deep. You should not count on more than one or two pushes of the registers."

07:59:56 Diablo-D3: even though it is within the C specification for them not to be

08:00:34 Diablo-D3: (and yes, int cant be 64 bit either, some OS got this wrong and broke shit, long is the only one that should be native)

08:01:43 BingoBoingo: Still which of {C,Java} works best on Z80?

08:01:51 Diablo-D3: neither.

08:02:10 fluffypony: so someone needs to write GPG for BASIC?

08:02:12 Diablo-D3: C on 8 bit machines is horrid

08:02:23 fluffypony: 20 GOTO 10

08:02:26 Diablo-D3: the gpg for dos thing is obviously a 32 bit binary

08:02:44 BingoBoingo: The point of C is to be horrid, to be the last resort.

08:02:57 Diablo-D3: not really

08:03:14 Diablo-D3: Ive coded C for over 15 years

08:03:26 Diablo-D3: if you know how to use it, its a nice language

08:03:41 BingoBoingo: C is a nice language. I am not disputing that.

08:03:56 Diablo-D3: C is an absolutely fucking horrid language

08:04:01 Diablo-D3: I said "if you know how to use it"

08:04:07 Diablo-D3: it takes the better part of a decade to get there.

08:04:10 bounce: so what do you prefer? haskell? ruby?

08:04:25 Diablo-D3: bounce: I had a love affair with erlang for awhile

08:04:29 BingoBoingo: bounce: 68K assembly.

08:04:37 Diablo-D3: ruby is a fucking shit pile

08:04:41 bounce: too bad the z80 doesn't do that

08:04:45 BingoBoingo: TI-89 and classic Mac FTW

08:04:54 Diablo-D3: its like the guys who created it had no clue what the fuck a language was

08:04:58 Diablo-D3: and cargo culted it together

08:05:04 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: yay I have a ti-89

08:05:21 Diablo-D3: I need to take it apart though

08:05:30 bounce: anyway, mind sticking to the topic and present some viable engineering choices that'll work on z80? (as distinct from your personal preferences that work plenty fine on your desktop)

08:05:32 Diablo-D3: it hasnt been cleaned since I got it at the start of high school

08:05:38 Diablo-D3: and Im now 30.

08:05:49 Diablo-D3: I wipe the keys off sometimes, but theres shit just ground into it

08:06:55 BingoBoingo: bounce: Did I ever offer Z80 as an only option? I would kill for a multicore gigahertz class Coldfire dev board rated for server use

08:07:11 Diablo-D3: bounce: Im considering learning scala though

08:07:24 Diablo-D3: I dont hate the jvm. I dont even hate java all that much anymore.

08:07:32 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: I actually sold my TI-89 for money to buy weed

08:07:32 Diablo-D3: java 8 fixed a lot of the long standing issues java has

08:07:38 bounce: you were talking about z80, and I thought it was interesting enough to explore that a bit. still have a kaypro in an attic somewhere. should probably dust if off some time

08:07:41 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: I never use my ti-89

08:08:06 Diablo-D3: which is kind of sad

08:08:10 BingoBoingo: bounce: I like the Z80 as an example to suppose.

08:08:53 bounce: it's a good example since (I'm told, haven't investigated) various smart card type things have a z80-type core on board

08:09:15 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: My TI-89 met it's end in my usefulness when I realized the cheaper Mac Classic was basically the same thing.

08:09:16 Diablo-D3: yeah z80 is the best 8bit microcontroller cpu ever

08:09:39 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: I just needed a ti calc because it was mandatory for math classes in high school

08:09:49 Diablo-D3: best $150 I spent

08:10:00 BingoBoingo: I think asciilifeform is right about the Lisps being the future though

08:10:01 bounce: relevant for this channel is the gpg-card thingies. problem with those is that the source isn't available, though a spec is. an open source implementation would be nice, and perhaps cheaper than sourcing the closed-source thing.

08:10:01 Diablo-D3: loaded up video games on it

08:10:11 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: all languages are slowly becoming lisp, including lisp

08:10:37 Diablo-D3: lisp really is the best language ever created

08:10:37 BingoBoingo: Not really, clojure becomes less LISP every release

08:10:46 Diablo-D3: clojure never really was a lisp

08:10:53 bounce: so if you're looking for an embedded type project, that's as a good an angle as anything

08:11:18 fluffypony: Clojure thinks it's a lisp

08:11:25 fluffypony: so does Scheme

08:11:32 bounce: so which is more acceptably lisp-y, ruby or clojure? </troll>

08:11:35 BingoBoingo: Scheme is a LISP though

08:12:01 BingoBoingo: bounce: Python is probably more LISPy than Ruby or Clojure

08:12:10 fluffypony: python is definitely more lispy than both

08:12:14 bounce: how so?

08:12:36 BingoBoingo: bounce: The bedrock abstractions are more solid

08:12:42 Diablo-D3: the only lisps Im interested in is chicken and racket

08:13:00 Diablo-D3: bounce: ruby is just a mistake imo

08:13:03 Diablo-D3: like php is

08:13:11 fluffypony: ok breakfast time, bbl

08:13:17 Diablo-D3: it was written by people who clearly were not veteran programmers and understood no good patterns

08:14:11 BingoBoingo: Ruby is basically a python fork that broke the underlying interpreter

08:14:31 bounce: did they get around to plug the resource leaks in the reference interpreter?

08:14:39 BingoBoingo: PHP was a nobel but flawed attempt to make HTML a scriptable server language

08:15:21 bounce: lovely how it attracts nothing but n00bs and how even the core devs reflect that sad fact. a fractal of bad design, indeed.

08:15:32 Diablo-D3: BingoBoingo: I will agree ruby is very python inspired

08:15:35 BingoBoingo: In this way PHP was at least born with a purpose. Where as Ruby was born with "lol, suck cocks"

08:15:40 Diablo-D3: but all the bad parts

08:15:47 Diablo-D3: although Im not sure python has good parts

08:16:04 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Python is great as a modern alternative to BASIC

08:16:15 Diablo-D3: I dont understand how people can handle a language that successfully resists static analysis

08:16:39 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Well, they handle it because they don't have pubes yet.

08:16:45 BingoBoingo: It is a learnign language

08:16:59 Diablo-D3: thats a non-argument

08:17:02 Diablo-D3: I learned C when I was 14.

08:17:14 Diablo-D3: anything younger than 14 should be started on lisp.

08:18:24 BingoBoingo: That isn't how schools have been capable of thinking though. I learned turtle graphics at 11 on an Apple II with software written in 1995. Schools make the worst decisions.

08:18:38 Diablo-D3: yes, I could care less what schools do

08:18:51 Diablo-D3: you do not learn how to program at a school

08:18:55 Diablo-D3: programming is an art form

08:18:55 bounce: so you could care less. well, time to show some love and caring, eh.

08:18:55 BingoBoingo: !up sunshyne

08:18:55 assbot: Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.

08:19:04 Diablo-D3: you learn programming by programming

08:19:39 Diablo-D3: anyhow who says otherwise is confusing programming with computer science

08:19:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00099948 = 17.5908 BTC [+] {2}

08:20:19 Diablo-D3: nif you want computer science

08:20:24 Diablo-D3: just read through TAoCP

08:20:35 Diablo-D3: dont need a school for that

08:21:00 BingoBoingo: need can be a tricky work

08:21:05 BingoBoingo: !up Diablo-D3

08:21:05 assbot: Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.

08:21:39 Diablo-D3: TAoCP is rather straight forward imo

08:21:57 Diablo-D3: and once you learn how to program, any language works really

08:22:11 Diablo-D3: programming is about learning patterns and when to use them

08:22:23 BingoBoingo: Someone can probably be a gentleman without reading Clausewitz much like someone can program without school.

08:22:28 Diablo-D3: its no different than learning how to play chess

08:22:51 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Would you be up for a game of chess?

08:23:08 Diablo-D3: I havent played chess in long long time

08:23:21 Diablo-D3: and Im too distracted to enjoy it right now anyhow

08:23:50 BingoBoingo: Eh, I've imbibed quite a bit of ETOH since this conversation started

08:24:19 BingoBoingo: I'll even offer the four possible opening lines I'd play

08:24:23 bounce: I need a shower and to find me a board, but I could be up after.

08:25:14 BingoBoingo: As white I'd play the queen's gambit. As black responding to E4, the pirc, to d4 the slav, and to anything else a spanking.

08:27:39 BingoBoingo: This is pretty much the mode I've offered to any players approaching me in this channel

08:28:11 Diablo-D3: iirc there are no good online chess things anyhow

08:28:29 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: If you have algebraic notation IRC works fine

08:28:42 Diablo-D3: I hate doing that

08:29:07 BingoBoingo: Chess is a great game in that precise notation exists for every possible move

08:30:22 Diablo-D3: I dont think I even own a chess board anymore.

08:31:28 BingoBoingo: I no longer have nickel cadmium batteries

08:32:02 BingoBoingo: I'd like to no longer have LI-ION batteries

08:34:12 mircea_popescu: goood morning everyone!

08:34:24 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell bitcoinpete When you asked about a line betting operation did the tweet I offered convey enough info?

08:34:24 gribble: The operation succeeded.

08:34:28 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Morning

08:35:09 BingoBoingo: How was the conference?

08:35:35 mircea_popescu: pretty great!

08:36:05 mircea_popescu: gonna put some pix up once i go through my mail and stuff

08:36:09 BingoBoingo: Nice.

08:36:12 mircea_popescu: how was the chan meanwhile ?

08:36:16 BingoBoingo: Slow

08:36:33 BingoBoingo: I ended up travelling just a little bit this weekend.

08:36:46 Diablo-D3: [04:31:43] <BingoBoingo> I no longer have nickel cadmium batteries

08:36:46 Diablo-D3: [04:32:16] <BingoBoingo> I'd like to no longer have LI-ION batteries

08:36:49 Diablo-D3: eventually we wont

08:36:54 Diablo-D3: graphene supercaps

08:36:54 mircea_popescu: o look who's here. didja find france alright davout ?

08:37:13 mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 afaik graphene is still a ways off.

08:37:34 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Actually I am hoping for a revival and enhancement of Silver-Zinc batteries

08:38:31 mircea_popescu: did that byrne kid ever manage to find his way here ?

08:38:48 BingoBoingo: ?

08:39:23 BingoBoingo: The logs are sparse the past couple days, so I doubt many newcomers...

08:40:03 Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: in the next five years, graphene supercaps will become a commercial reality

08:40:11 Diablo-D3: they already have semi-functioning prototypes

08:40:41 Diablo-D3: their big problem right now is that they're so energy dense, they're hard to handle

08:40:48 mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 i bet you that i won't be able to buy a graphene supercap battery at a convenience store in 2019.

08:41:02 Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: well, no, you wouldnt

08:41:07 Diablo-D3: that'd be nonsensical

08:41:10 mircea_popescu: ...

08:41:11 BingoBoingo: If they were there I dunno that I would want to buy them

08:41:29 mircea_popescu: well whatever, radioshack

08:41:30 Diablo-D3: that'd be like buying a li-ion battery at a store

08:41:31 Diablo-D3: you dont

08:41:39 Diablo-D3: you need the safety mechanism so you dont kill yourself

08:41:40 mircea_popescu: some sort of consumer accessible outlet

08:41:52 Diablo-D3: Im surprised, btw, alkalines are even made anymore

08:41:57 Diablo-D3: they're old hat

08:42:04 BingoBoingo: ... Usually I buy lithium batteries at the store, Li-ion, LI-polymer and otherwise

08:42:12 mircea_popescu: ^

08:42:21 Diablo-D3: I put lithiums in anything that a regchargable is inappropriate for

08:42:33 Diablo-D3: like, devices that stay continuously powered more than 2 years, or go outside, or are clocks, etc

08:42:56 BingoBoingo: I have yet to see a Lithium 364 button cell

08:43:03 fluffypony: alkalines are still available here - just yesterday I had to buy some AAs and got to choose between alkalines, lithiums, and nimh rechargeables

08:43:19 Diablo-D3: I use lsd nimhs in all.... two devices that need batteries

08:43:27 Diablo-D3: well, that arent clocks or continuous long term shit

08:43:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform needed some batteries for his demo yest, i had the maitre d' scare up some batteries, he came back with two alkalines

08:44:02 Diablo-D3: my harmony remote, and my ti-89

08:44:05 Diablo-D3: thats _it_

08:44:10 Diablo-D3: I have nothing that uses batteries anymore

08:44:56 Diablo-D3: the two clocks and the temp sensors use lithiums for obvious reasons

08:45:31 BingoBoingo: I own more watches than other battery powered devices, but of the ones that don't operate on mechanical energy, solver oxide cells are the most prevalent.

08:45:48 bounce: what, no automatics?

08:46:08 Diablo-D3: bounce: nope

08:46:16 BingoBoingo: bounce: Automatics use mechanical energy

08:46:31 BingoBoingo: The rotor winds the spring

08:46:47 bounce: right. what was the electrical equivalent, 'kinetic' or something?

08:46:49 fluffypony: davout: bonjour

08:47:06 fluffypony: bounce: yeah, Seiko had "kinetic"

08:47:15 fluffypony: Citizen has solar

08:47:35 BingoBoingo: bounce: Kinetic is the seiko term, other manufacterers use different names because trademarks. That is for electrical charging by those means though.

08:48:40 BingoBoingo: Seiko still makes proper mechanical automatic movements though.

08:48:42 bounce: kid in school had a solar, very sparse design. just even matte background for the face, which also was the solar panel only you'd not notice.

08:49:34 fluffypony: bounce: I have 3 Citizen solars

08:49:36 fluffypony: lemme take photo

08:49:39 BingoBoingo: The sun's overrated. I'd kind of prefer an all tritium powered watch

08:50:16 bounce: used to have a... citizen? automatic. need fixing though, in the end it was off by half an hour a day. should've gotten it fixed while still in warranty. silly me.

08:50:40 BingoBoingo: Oh http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/04/21/that-didnt-take-long/

08:51:09 BingoBoingo: bounce: It really depends on the particular watch whether it is worth saving or not.

08:52:26 mircea_popescu: quartzes rarely are.

08:52:27 BingoBoingo: bounce: Even in the worst case you want to keep them stored well in case everyone else with them decides they aren't worth saving and you end up with something rate

08:53:03 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have yet to actually see a quartz automatic outisde of a few questionable seiko examples

08:53:53 mircea_popescu: what do you mean ?

08:54:10 mircea_popescu: ;;google quartz clock

08:54:11 gribble: Quartz clock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock; HowStuffWorks "How Quartz Watches Work": http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/clocks-watches/quartz-watch.htm; Quartz Time Only Clock Movements | Klockit: http://www.klockit.com/depts/QuartzTimeOnlyClockMovements/dept-157.html

08:54:12 mircea_popescu: that thing ?

08:54:32 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seiko has a mechanical powered quartz regulated movement they call "Spring Drive"

08:54:59 BingoBoingo: Seiko also has a mechanically recharged all electric quarts they call kinetic

08:55:07 mircea_popescu: oh oh. yeah some swiss makers actually tried using quartz oscialltors as an error limiter at some point

08:56:24 BingoBoingo: The couple I've seen inherited the worst parts of quartz and mechanical movements.

08:56:34 fluffypony: bounce: http://i.imgur.com/ppkGOKj.jpg

08:56:48 fluffypony: you wouldn't be able to tell any of those are solar panels at a glance

08:56:49 mircea_popescu: exactly.

08:57:03 BingoBoingo: ANd the only I've known of were all made by Japs

08:57:16 mircea_popescu: perhaps resolvable, but i think people just gave up

08:57:42 BingoBoingo: Probably. It is hard to compete with a CR 2032 at anything.

08:58:23 BingoBoingo: I'd like to see more accutron like tuning fork movements though.

08:58:46 BingoBoingo: mechanicaly charged mass regulated would be nearly perfect.

08:59:22 mircea_popescu: judging by the excellent results electrostatic speakers show it's a wonder they've not tried that yet actually.

08:59:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00099729 = 9.4743 BTC [-] {2}

08:59:49 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It probably goes back to flawed fiat assumptions about costs.

09:00:29 BingoBoingo: I have yet to see anything as beautiful as the original accutron movements.

09:01:48 BingoBoingo: The few I've worked on take 357 batteries though, and that is a lot of silver for a year and a half of function.

09:03:52 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: http://www.watchalyzer.com/wp-content/gallery/bulova-accutron/bulova-accutron-214-movement.jpg

09:03:55 fluffypony: I love the exposed resistor

09:04:26 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: That is literally the most boring part of the thing.

09:04:28 bounce: wonder how they do white solar panels.

09:04:43 bounce: on IIRC my watch is a casio instead. hm. doesn't really matter.

09:05:09 fluffypony: bounce: no clue, it's quite impressive that they make it look like a regular watch face

09:06:28 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Those two sections wrapped in wire are a tuning fork.

09:06:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00099253 = 15.3842 BTC [-] {3}

09:06:57 BingoBoingo: The tuning fork both keeps time and moves the hands

09:07:11 fluffypony: nice

09:07:16 fluffypony: are the batteries hard to come by?

09:07:30 BingoBoingo: Quartz coming later keeps time better, but only keeps time.

09:07:47 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Here batteries are easy to find, standard 357s

09:08:08 BingoBoingo: Just, don't try the other kind of 357

09:10:55 fluffypony: they're not badly priced in decent condition

09:12:27 BingoBoingo: Well, decent doesn't say too much... How many people alive can make them sing (I actually, literally mean sing)

09:12:49 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: sing by striking the tuning fork?

09:13:38 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Not striking, resonating. That's what the coils of copper wire do. It's a fucking watch, not a rail gun.

09:14:07 fluffypony: although a pocket rail gun would be amazing

09:14:07 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

09:14:12 fluffypony: a:-P

09:15:27 BingoBoingo: A silver oxide cell would offer the worst possible discharge curve for that purpose though.

09:15:40 BingoBoingo: !up Diablo-D3

09:15:40 assbot: Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.

09:15:46 Diablo-D3: thx

09:17:06 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: I know people rip on Wikipedia in this chan, but it wouldn't be the worst place to start in understanding how 1950's tech works

09:17:17 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: cool will give it a squizzle

09:20:45 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Did I ever mention how your presence makes me miss truffles?

09:20:52 fluffypony: hah hah

09:20:57 fluffypony: no you haven't

09:21:49 BingoBoingo: That wasn't an endorsement...

09:21:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00099848 = 2.8956 BTC [+]

09:23:23 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: this is interesting - http://www.ablogtowatch.com/top-ten-technically-important-watches-from-1950/

09:24:39 fluffypony: "The movement was, however, used in spacecraft instrument clocks and other time-keeping mechanisms, partly also because NASA was still unsure how gravity would affect mechanical movements."

09:25:55 BingoBoingo: It is amazing how personal timekeeping hasn't had any advancements since 1970, much like how you still seem fluffypony to be the sort that would borrow bitcoin for cheap polyester couches.

09:25:55 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

09:26:27 fluffypony: why on earth would I borrow money to buy a couch?

09:26:38 *: BingoBoingo drinks hatorade, goes to bed

09:27:37 Diablo-D3: lol

09:29:36 fluffypony: bounce: 1972, first solar watch - http://70swatchesgallery.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/synchronar/

09:29:51 fluffypony: actually looks kinda awesome

09:34:16 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/

09:34:17 ozbot: Ca tot… s-a tras tot s-a fumat tot s-a baut tot cum e peste tot ? La fel ca peste tot. pe fraudsters

09:34:19 mircea_popescu: conference pix etc.

09:36:51 fluffypony: looks like fun - rumour has it next year will be in Argentina?

09:37:59 fluffypony: then South Africa 2016, we can have a Halvening Party and I'll arrange a safari

09:38:24 mircea_popescu: and we halven the lion population ?

09:39:17 fluffypony: that can be arranged, like all things, for a price :-P

09:49:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00099862 = 11.7837 BTC [+] {2}

10:00:51 mircea_popescu: Adam Penenberg is such an idiot. o herp, please help along with the grandiose effort of making usg snooping more user-acceptable.

10:02:32 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 why me ?!

10:03:43 mircea_popescu: bounce "the odd dos-only application that's critical to the business and irreplacable" << this should be ridiculous but isn't. most "tools" of today aren't actally as good as the tools of the 90s.

10:05:24 mircea_popescu: bounce:

10:05:24 mircea_popescu: on that note, often manufacturers explicitly forbid to install updates and servicepacks since it might well break the app. << since heartbleed i'm going to forbid any upgrades as part of the contract in all cases, always and forever.

10:05:44 mircea_popescu: from what i hear i'm by no means of a minority oppinion (even if i no longer to that sort of thing on any sort of scale)

10:06:25 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell cgcardona lol is it the first best largest wot ?

10:06:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

10:08:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6549 @ 0.0009935 = 6.5064 BTC [-] {2}

10:09:56 mircea_popescu: ;;rate jurov 5 Years of promises kept.

10:09:57 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 4 to 5.

10:10:45 mircea_popescu: ;;rate wao 1 Sold me a large bitcoin.

10:10:46 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user wao has been recorded.

10:12:05 mircea_popescu: ;;rate thickasthieves 3 Vegetarian.

10:12:06 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user thickasthieves has changed from 1 to 3.

10:16:56 mircea_popescu: http://www.fastcompany.com/3029119/most-innovative-companies/tencent-the-secretive-chinese-tech-giant-that-can-rival-facebook-a

10:16:57 ozbot: Tencent: The Secretive, Chinese Tech Giant That Can Rival Facebook and Amazon | Fast Company | Busin

10:16:59 mircea_popescu: le derp.

10:18:44 fluffypony: the CEO's name is Pony?

10:18:46 fluffypony: I like him already.

10:18:58 mircea_popescu: fluffypony: in which /r/Bitcoin can't decide whether to spend its ten cents on supersizing the coke or the fries. it's really unfair anyway because if they supersize one they should get the other for free. << FTFY

10:20:18 fluffypony: touché

10:21:04 mircea_popescu: lol coinet srsly ? ALL THESE THINGS nobody ever heard of being the biggest ever in their obscure corner onoes!

10:22:26 mircea_popescu: ;;seen mike_c

10:22:27 gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 6 hours, 35 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <mike_c> plus hard work is its own reward

10:23:16 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: that was a typo, was meant to be coinbet

10:23:30 mircea_popescu: i think i typoed it

10:23:42 mircea_popescu: anyway, was reading the article. pretty lulzy

10:23:44 fluffypony: I did too in the log

10:23:45 fluffypony: yeah

10:23:52 fluffypony: the scary thing is that they DID get a shitton of media coverage

10:24:57 fluffypony: and gamblers (of all people) trust some random site with no track record

10:25:26 fluffypony: domain registered in fucking December, we're now in April, they barely lasted 4 months of scamming

10:27:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.0009913 = 3.9652 BTC [-]

10:27:04 mircea_popescu: the way this shit works is, fucktard of the ilk of that byrne fellow figures he knows shit, gets some investors together, anywhere between a few 10s of k's to maybe a million,

10:27:12 mircea_popescu: then blows the whole wad on advertising and freerolls.

10:27:32 mircea_popescu: then discovers his ROI is about 3 to 5%

10:27:52 mircea_popescu: then decides to scam the few legit customers he has to return a 1/5 to 1/3 equity to his invesotrs, and story ends there.

10:28:13 fluffypony: messed up

10:28:23 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/458187310480494593

10:28:24 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @ryancharleston Stop being ...

10:28:28 mircea_popescu: a fine example, that idiot.

10:29:01 fluffypony: hah hah

10:29:12 mircea_popescu: "You asked a serious article ? A real investigation ? Here I am here I am!"

10:29:50 mircea_popescu: "Their common ? They both worked at Orange / France Telecom , the first from 2007 to 2011, the second from 2005 to 2011 . They are logically met through this company that pushes people into suicide."

10:29:53 mircea_popescu: ole!

10:30:22 mircea_popescu: "Out of nowhere like a UFO website beegcoin edited by BEEG CORPORATION LIMITED, registered in London and created by young French to be, I think, a huge slap to the ego -centric bitcoin.

10:30:27 mircea_popescu: ok this shit's pretty good.

10:31:04 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell thickasthieves http://gigaom.com/2014/01/19/on-free-speech-and-blogging-the-first-amendment-applies-to-everyone-not-just-journalists/

10:31:05 gribble: The operation succeeded.

10:31:37 mircea_popescu: fluffypony:

10:31:37 mircea_popescu: cgcardona_: just told that to my wife (she's vegetarian), now she's walking around doing her Plants vs. Zombies impersonation << this woman sounds like she needs a daily vlog.

10:31:52 fluffypony: hah hah

10:32:07 fluffypony: only if we can monetise it

10:32:57 mircea_popescu: what do you care, she's going around doing "grainzzzz" anyway.

10:33:16 mircea_popescu: do that for a year, audience builts, then she can prolly start her own eyeliner line

10:33:20 fluffypony: lol

10:33:29 fluffypony: I'll suggest it:)

10:33:33 mircea_popescu: or w/e, make every woman in south africa wear uncomfortable bras just fore the hell of it

10:36:04 bounce: "journalists not so speshul". funny how that needs a court to tell them journos.

10:36:18 mircea_popescu: indeed.

10:37:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22086 @ 0.0009913 = 21.8939 BTC [-]

10:37:20 mircea_popescu: artifexd: Put that ink in your printer and make a super sekrit paper wallet. << plain white wallpaper with floral designs that morphs into japanese girls and octopuses once you shine a black light in the dark.

10:39:00 mircea_popescu: jurov: mircea will certainly come soon, maybe after a lil fuck << my fucks are not little.

10:39:07 mircea_popescu: experientia docet.

10:39:43 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: dammit. << that's right rainscamboy! and now it's fucking sunny, chicks be tanning nude in my yard.

10:40:21 mircea_popescu: jurov: Apocalyptic: imagine world directors talking about important topics whole days wrapped in clouds of smoke << this is shockingly true, i think we smoked a small dog's weight of tobacco

10:41:06 fluffypony: experientia docet? I thought we were against that? :-P

10:41:12 mircea_popescu: fluffypony: I love foosball << davout is fucking criminal at that thing. he beat everyone, single against teams, everything.

10:41:12 fluffypony: docendo discitur, on the other hand...

10:41:23 mircea_popescu: no, fucking is exempt

10:42:19 mircea_popescu: o which reminds me! if any of the esteemed VIPs can repeat either of my two little latin fables, there's a prize!

10:45:54 mircea_popescu: !up keonne

10:45:54 assbot: Voicing keonne for 30 minutes.

10:46:09 mircea_popescu: who was asking about china's political influence a few days ago ? here it is :

10:46:09 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Edourdoo/status/458160399964061696

10:46:10 ozbot: Twitter / Edourdoo: Obama unlikely to win over ...

10:46:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.0009913 = 10.706 BTC [-]

10:47:23 bounce: one of things with investor/state extortion thingies in it, innit?

10:48:01 mircea_popescu: bounce hm ?

10:48:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-04-2014#625895

10:48:45 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

10:48:47 mircea_popescu: thats the reference.

10:49:53 bounce: ayup, it does.

10:50:28 bounce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement

10:50:28 ozbot: Investor-state dispute settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10:52:29 mircea_popescu: aha yea

10:57:16 mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3: the bot should just be set to autovoice me < nope.

10:57:45 mircea_popescu: you should have long by now learned that you're not really worth two shits as you are, and until and unless you change to be more useful.

10:58:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0009913 = 9.2191 BTC [-]

10:59:49 mircea_popescu: whoa done with three days' logs! a hero is me.

11:00:04 mircea_popescu: ty dear ppls for not having made it TOO difficult >D

11:14:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.0009916 = 2.4294 BTC [+]

11:22:31 thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe

11:22:32 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00098037 / 0.0009918 / 0.00099972 (1033439 shares, 1,024.97 BTC), 7D: 0.00095214 / 0.00097861 / 0.00101 (3821859 shares, 3,740.13 BTC), 30D: 0.00092844 / 0.000959 / 0.00101 (20718626 shares, 19,869.30 BTC)

11:31:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00099055 = 25.0609 BTC [-] {3}

11:36:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 40 @ 0.00600538 = 0.2402 BTC [-] {3}

11:37:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.0735 = 0.2205 BTC [+] {2}

11:40:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00099192 = 18.2017 BTC [+] {2}

12:05:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.03 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2}

12:27:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3546 @ 0.00098862 = 3.5056 BTC [-]

12:33:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00099132 = 24.9813 BTC [+] {4}

12:33:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04250066 = 0.1275 BTC [+] {2}

12:34:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2227 BTC [-]

12:47:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16588 @ 0.00099614 = 16.524 BTC [+] {2}

13:10:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]

13:20:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00099989 = 8.699 BTC [+] {2}

13:45:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15454 @ 0.00099653 = 15.4004 BTC [-] {2}

13:50:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.0048201 = 0.3181 BTC [-] {3}

13:52:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00099604 = 5.777 BTC [-]

14:07:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13108 @ 0.00099604 = 13.0561 BTC [-]

14:23:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10008 @ 0.00100002 = 10.0082 BTC [+]

14:30:30 FabianB: Tencent's CEO: "In America, when you bring an idea to market you usually have several months before competition pops up, allowing you to capture significant market share. In China, you can have hundreds of competitors within the first hours of going live. Ideas are not important in China--execution is."

14:32:34 mircea_popescu: i heard that before

14:35:12 mircea_popescu: "Marketers have created a profile for young urban millennial males with money to burn, but it's hard to believe this creature exists"

14:37:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5 BTC [-]

14:40:07 mircea_popescu: justusranvier can i pay you to get off that accursed blogspot thing ?

14:41:00 mircea_popescu: and also pankkake http://bitcoinism.blogspot.ro/2013/12/lex-cryptographia.html b-a material ?

14:44:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.0425 = 0.34 BTC [-]

14:45:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.0742218 = 0.5938 BTC [-]

14:45:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.04201018 = 0.2521 BTC [-] {3}

14:46:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.0742218 = 0.4453 BTC [-]

14:47:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.0416111 = 0.2497 BTC [-] {2}

14:48:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.0742218 = 0.4453 BTC [-]

14:50:20 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlvuyjFIEAA6mBb.jpg:large

14:50:26 mircea_popescu: uk men be insecure

14:52:14 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: wrt making Sybil attacks harder, isn't there/couldn't there be a GPG-like system that uses a common private key for a single owner, but also hash some sort of easily identifiable GUID as part of the pubkey/signature to indicate which machine it is on? that way an attacker's work becomes slightly more complex, as they need to not only create profiles but have a fresh VM/install/whatever for them

14:53:21 mircea_popescu: how are fresh vms difficult ?

14:53:43 fluffypony: they're more difficult

14:54:14 mircea_popescu: they're more difficult for the wrong demographic.

14:54:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04153174 = 0.2907 BTC [-] {2}

14:54:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.0742218 = 0.5196 BTC [-]

14:54:38 fluffypony: I suppose

14:54:47 fluffypony: have there been any identified Sybil attacks on the WoT?

14:55:18 mircea_popescu: all the time. i recall stomping one [\\\] spotted in like... 2012 ?

14:55:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 500 @ 0.14 = 70 BTC

14:55:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04100001 = 0.123 BTC [-]

14:56:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2227 BTC [-]

14:57:39 mircea_popescu: http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/report-ebola-suspected-in-europe-broken-through-all-containment-efforts_04202014

14:57:41 ozbot: Report: Ebola Suspected In Europe: "Broken Through All Containment Efforts"

14:58:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 25 @ 0.0742218 = 1.8555 BTC [-]

14:59:55 fluffypony: http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/reop

14:59:56 ozbot: reop - reasonable expectation of privacy

15:02:41 mircea_popescu: "reop is clearly influenced by signify (What can I say? I like my own designs.), but it?s not a clone." done reading there.

15:03:03 fluffypony: skip down to the GPG complaints at the bottom

15:03:52 mircea_popescu: "Holy shit! What kind of toy random number generator is GPG using? Never mind that the message is printed twice. Never mind that both messages flick by before I have half a chance to read them, let alone do anything to entropize my system. ?Wiggle the mouse for moar entropies.? I wouldn?t trust a program that prints messages like this to protect my middle school slambook."

15:03:55 mircea_popescu: so guy is an imbecile.

15:04:06 mircea_popescu: how's this different from the previous conclusion

15:04:53 fluffypony: yep

15:06:51 mircea_popescu: !up exchange01

15:06:51 assbot: Voicing exchange01 for 30 minutes.

15:07:05 fluffypony: "[00:20:08] <~spacenerf> lot of people made PGP'alikes using this shniz, most of which are difficult to deal with/possibly broken on some platforms etc"

15:07:08 fluffypony: that's it in a nutshell

15:07:10 mircea_popescu: here's to hoping that this is the first, biggest and largest exchange

15:07:34 exchange01: can i speak to you in private i am not familar with irc

15:08:03 mircea_popescu: fluffypony the guy is derping about what "gpg does in 2014" forgetting to even mention what version he's using. because everything in his head was born this year, so obviously...

15:08:21 mircea_popescu: exchange01 you can just say here.

15:08:23 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: agreed

15:10:10 mircea_popescu: to not even get in the advanced topics of how 50%+1 of crypto-related specs are broken by design anyway. what sort of argument is this, that package x is bad because it allows user to do something some rfc says should not be done ? blergh.

15:10:59 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: but he likes it because it's "his design" and so therefore infallible

15:11:21 mircea_popescu: so who is this guy ? doing an ipo or anything ?

15:11:35 mircea_popescu: insufficiently beaten millenials.

15:11:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.0010003 = 5.8518 BTC [+] {2}

15:12:45 fluffypony: exchange01: crash course on IRC - you type the words, you press the enter, they come out on the screen

15:12:46 fluffypony: majik

15:13:14 exchange01: fluffypony thank you very much for this introduction, but i am wondering are you certified to say that ? :)

15:13:28 mircea_popescu: lol

15:14:23 exchange01: mircea_popescu are you receiving what im sending u using /msg ?

15:14:52 fluffypony: exchange01: I have a BIRC from the University of the Internet-pre-1995

15:14:54 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo why is this byrne kid so fixated on the entire personal attack angle ? he told thickashtieves the same thing, yet how the heck would his being clueless a personal attack on me. wtf, i'm not his mother.

15:15:25 mircea_popescu: exchange01 i don't hold private conversations with people i don't know. this is kinda the basis of private conversations : the parties must be acquainted.

15:15:33 mircea_popescu: speak your business publicly, what is it ?

15:15:39 exchange01: yes

15:16:04 exchange01: its a small exchanger, we are thinking about making an IPO on havelocks

15:16:25 exchange01: and being listed, but I am looking for other options and I've been told about Mpex

15:16:36 mircea_popescu: what's small exchanger mean ?

15:16:40 exchange01: low volume

15:16:56 mircea_popescu: this is still exceedingly vague.

15:17:48 exchange01: I know, well, i am wondering if you guys have any suggestions as you know finding financing for that kind of business is impossible

15:18:31 mircea_popescu: well i dunno man, so far there's not much here to go on. what suggestions are you looking for ?

15:18:59 exchange01: Well, is it possible to get listed on Mpex like dice ?

15:19:09 exchange01: what would be the requirements for that ?

15:20:03 mircea_popescu: it is possible, in principle.

15:20:08 mircea_popescu: ;;google requirements to list on mpex

15:20:09 gribble: MPEx - Bitcoin: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MPEx; How does one list on MPEx ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea ...: http://fraudsters.com/how-does-one-list-on-mpex; MPEX Data Access: http://data.eol.ucar.edu/master_list/?project=MPEX

15:20:51 exchange01: i can send you our business plan mircea if you want

15:20:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.041 = 0.205 BTC [-]

15:20:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.03275 = 0.655 BTC [+] {4}

15:20:57 exchange01: business model

15:21:44 fluffypony: ;;ident exchange01

15:21:45 gribble: Nick 'exchange01', with hostmask 'exchange01!43cc18ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.', is not identified.

15:21:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.03075 = 0.615 BTC [-] {4}

15:22:01 fluffypony: "Credible WOT presence."

15:22:08 fluffypony: exchange01: you need that ^^

15:22:18 exchange01: i need to register ?

15:22:24 exchange01: on irc

15:22:50 fluffypony: exchange01: http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/Beginners_Guide

15:22:51 fluffypony: start there

15:22:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06500102 = 0.65 BTC [-] {2}

15:22:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00481065 = 0.2405 BTC [-] {3}

15:23:20 fluffypony: register with the WoT, and then build your WoT profile over time

15:23:26 exchange01: ;;calc 1 + 1

15:23:26 gribble: 2

15:23:37 mircea_popescu: .d

15:23:37 ozbot: 6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1369 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.8229% in 8d 2h 11m 44s

15:24:16 mircea_popescu: "Likewise, today when a Westerner tells a Lebanese Shiite that he has a separate "ethnicity", he is baffled. Mazhab is not ethnicity, no more than being a democrat in the US would be a different race (although it should be)."

15:24:18 mircea_popescu: lmap

15:24:39 exchange01: ok i will start with that, thank you @mircea and @fluffy

15:24:44 fluffypony: any time :)

15:27:05 mircea_popescu: "Having spent more than two decades, as an option trader and book-runner (~ 650,000 trades), I have always been leery of inexperienced academics talking about "prediction markets" when we have organic, spontaneously formed markets, and have had them since civilization started --my reaction is that of an old plane engineer and pilot being lectured by a high school English student who never flew a plane. You can't tell t

15:27:05 mircea_popescu: hem what they don't know. "

15:27:24 mircea_popescu: ok, that's me reading all the derpage. ethereum, smart contracts, bla bla.

15:28:02 mircea_popescu: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2284964

15:28:02 ozbot: On the Difference between Binary Prediction and True Exposure with Implications for Forecasting Tour

15:30:27 fluffypony: hah hah - failed attempts at legitimacy 101: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Autonomous_Corporation

15:30:58 fluffypony: they can't even decide what the D stands for

15:31:07 fluffypony: there they say Digital, but in one of the references it says "Distributed Autonomous Corporations (DACs), or Decentralized Autonomous Companies"

15:31:08 mircea_popescu: http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook.htm

15:31:15 mircea_popescu: this bit (taleb) is actually pretty good.

15:31:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o check what has a wikipedia article!

15:31:55 mircea_popescu: some obscure shit that was never mentioned anywhere is notable! eleven

15:33:02 fluffypony: "This article includes a list of references, related reading or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations."

15:33:04 fluffypony: heh heh

15:33:31 fluffypony: "Bitcoin itself can be viewed as an early form of DAC. We are generalizing the concept for use in the open source community, building on Bitcoin's proven technology. Bitcoin could be reimplemented as a full open standards-compliant DAC. Perhaps someday it will."

15:34:03 mircea_popescu: i'll borrow the expression from taleb, since i just read it : this shit's not even wrong.

15:34:37 benkay: generalizing concepts. sounds like someone heard about 'general solutions' from someone else with a lil bit o programmery experience and decided it was important to do for their ideas as well.

15:35:04 benkay: "it's not enough that this is specifically stupid, i'm going to generalize this idiocy to the general case."

15:35:47 mircea_popescu: benkay that's exactly what happens. someone who was taught in primary school to "guess what words meran in context" instead of being beaten every time he failed to look up new words in the dictionary

15:35:55 FabianB: hmm.. Google can't find Jerusalina

15:35:56 mircea_popescu: grew up into an adult that proceeds on the basis of word recognition

15:36:08 mircea_popescu: that shit makes for excellent consumers and appaling "thinkers"

15:36:17 mircea_popescu: FabianB gotta admit it has a ring to it neh ?

15:36:28 bounce: I think the "jews make up a race according to western languages" premise mostly means the writer is still stuck in wwII-era propaganda.

15:37:29 mircea_popescu: bounce the part where early judaism was not tribal, but more akin to today's jehova witnesses is accurate

15:37:36 mircea_popescu: the middle part... that becomes complex

15:38:49 FabianB: mircea_popescu: does it exist or will it be built by you?

15:39:09 bounce: isn't it their creation story that groups them in various tribes, about 12 or so? though to call that a "race" is maybe a bit overly ambitious.

15:39:11 fluffypony: well jews in ancient israel were bound by a common belief, but it was also by birth

15:39:26 mircea_popescu: FabianB it's a play on how would a feminine jerusalem sound like

15:39:26 fluffypony: if you decided to follow the belief but you weren't born of the 12 tribes you weren't a jew

15:39:51 mircea_popescu: bounce we're talking actual history rather than orginal mythology tho

15:40:03 mircea_popescu: otherwise everyone was spawned by the fucking sun god.

15:40:14 bounce: what, you're saying their holy book can possibly be wrong? what malarky is this? :-p

15:40:19 mircea_popescu: lol

15:40:42 FabianB: mircea_popescu: hahaha, was already looking in argentinas pampas for tiny villages :)

15:40:48 fluffypony: bounce is right, though - they self-identified based on the son they were descended from

15:40:54 mircea_popescu: let me put it this way : once judaism became large enough they +m'd the channel.

15:41:09 bounce: this is true. you can get in, but it's not easy.

15:41:15 mircea_popescu: FabianB you know the expression, "next year in jerusalem". i just.. well... sexchanged it.

15:41:37 FabianB: hehe

15:41:41 mircea_popescu: but before it was large enough, there was no tribalism. most being... self made jooz.

15:41:50 bounce: better than islam, where getting in is relatively easy (just learn a book by rote and loud repetition), getting out... carries the death penalty. (literally)

15:42:14 mircea_popescu: islamob.

15:43:21 benkay: ;;later tell DiabloD3 lisp > scala.

15:43:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:43:33 bounce: curious tidbit: there's a reason it's the mother, not the father, that conveys jewishness to the kid. figuring out why should be just a bit of thought.

15:43:44 mircea_popescu: isn't this obvious ?

15:44:03 mircea_popescu: redheaded chicks named khannah' being the world's premiere sluts and all ?

15:44:10 bounce: not everyone notices and puts the puzzle together

15:44:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.065001 = 0.13 BTC [-]

15:44:29 mircea_popescu: he who does not puts ze puzzle together is known as... a putz.

15:44:38 fluffypony: oy vey

15:44:41 fluffypony: (sp?)

15:45:48 benkay: ;;later tell BingoBoingo Where as Ruby was born with "lol, suck cocks" << it's more like "lol i suck cocks" but yeah right idea

15:45:48 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:46:51 mircea_popescu: !up Anon29486307

15:46:51 assbot: Voicing Anon29486307 for 30 minutes.

15:51:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00100055 = 2.5014 BTC [+]

15:51:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.501 = 2.004 BTC [+]

15:54:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23398 @ 0.00099772 = 23.3447 BTC [-] {6}

15:56:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 550 @ 0.14 = 77 BTC

16:00:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.51669550 BTC to 6`985 shares, 36030 satoshi per share

16:02:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00099964 = 12.1956 BTC [+]

16:03:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00099964 = 4.5983 BTC [+]

16:06:36 mircea_popescu: !up Oleanie

16:06:36 assbot: Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.

16:08:57 Oleanie: hello

16:10:19 fluffypony: ¡Ola!

16:13:55 benkay: good morning, Oleanie

16:21:34 thestringpuller: https://keybase.io/ - anyone know about this?

16:22:58 kakobrekla: ;;google keybase.io site:http://log.bitcoin-assets.com

16:22:59 gribble: NEXT: 17-02-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2014&bots=true; PREV: 28-03-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2014&bots=true; NEXT: 01-03-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2014&bots=true

16:23:39 cgcardona_: top of tha mornin

16:23:49 benkay: thestringpuller: they want your private key. what else do you need to know?

16:23:59 thestringpuller: Wow kakobrekla I just learned something new

16:24:02 thestringpuller: hahahahahahahahahaha

16:24:02 thestringpuller: wow

16:24:06 thestringpuller: i love this channel

16:25:36 cgcardona_: fwiw I asked Manu Sporny (lead of the W3C Payments Working Group) what he thinks of bitcoin. Q: https://twitter.com/cgcardona/status/457225541284687872 A1: https://twitter.com/manusporny/status/458264859055247360 A2: https://twitter.com/manusporny/status/458265043860455424

16:26:20 benkay: cgcardona_: repeat that line to anyone seeking to 'bring bitcoin to the masses'

16:26:25 benkay: shit's not even worth 500 per.

16:26:26 benkay: ;;ticker

16:26:27 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 498.4, Best ask: 498.72, Bid-ask spread: 0.32000, Last trade: 498.25, 24 hour volume: 8609.15956762, 24 hour low: 490.0, 24 hour high: 515.0, 24 hour vwap: 501.43322806

16:26:32 benkay: see? market agrees.

16:28:17 jurov: 'cept for vwap

16:29:04 fluffypony: cgcardona_: I'm reading his name as Manus Porny from now on

16:30:49 benkay: enjoy the con, jurov?

16:31:13 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

16:31:14 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 498.02, Best ask: 498.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 498.02, 24 hour volume: 8569.74616032, 24 hour low: 490.0, 24 hour high: 515.0, 24 hour vwap: 501.43322806

16:32:04 mircea_popescu: !up fordlincoln

16:32:04 assbot: Voicing fordlincoln for 30 minutes.

16:33:02 cgcardona_: fluffypony: i figured that we all were :)

16:33:19 cgcardona_: actually i thought it might be M. Anus Porny

16:33:42 cgcardona_: </making fun of someone's name>

16:35:10 mircea_popescu: cgcardona_ well... gotta love people who say shit like "it's fundamentals"

16:36:37 cgcardona_: MP - yea I'm *never* surprised when the leader of a working group predicts something will 'take years'

16:39:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 55 @ 0.00580682 = 0.3194 BTC [+] {6}

16:39:24 jurov: ..and sweat and bood and tears and bile and urine and...

16:39:31 jurov: *blood

16:39:42 cgcardona_: "There will be bood"

16:40:06 jurov: benkay yup... kinda "mini-con", though :D

16:40:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17336 @ 0.0009929 = 17.2129 BTC [-] {2}

16:40:24 cgcardona_: I still remember when Hixie was leader of the HTML5 working group and he said it was gonna take till 2019!

16:41:03 cgcardona_: actually he said 2022

16:43:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 13 @ 0.03038461 = 0.395 BTC [+] {3}

16:43:15 cgcardona_: I think that (with regards to the W3C) bitcoin's biggest lacking fundimental is that it's not a W3C tech.

16:44:03 benkay: best clubs are small clubs, jurov. i wonder what attendance will be like next year.

16:46:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.00599999 = 0.12 BTC [+] {2}

16:47:02 cgcardona_: ;;rate mircea_popescu 1 Regular in (creator of?) #btc-assets

16:47:04 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.

16:47:25 fluffypony: cgcardona_: kakobrekla is the channel owner

16:47:29 fluffypony: founder

16:47:30 bounce: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749597814000223

16:47:34 cgcardona_: ah ok - I'll uddate

16:47:51 mircea_popescu: yeah i'm just squatting here.

16:48:00 cgcardona_: ;;rate mircea_popescu 1 Regular in #btc-assets and bitlord

16:48:01 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 1 to 1.

16:48:34 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla just so you know, bitlord is better than world's #1 dad.

16:50:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06458 = 0.3229 BTC [-] {5}

16:50:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6743 @ 0.00099584 = 6.7149 BTC [+]

16:50:46 cgcardona_: who is Anduck ? they gave me a -10 on the wot. wot a dick

16:50:57 cgcardona_: that gives me a -6 total. that sucks

16:52:25 mircea_popescu: ;;seen Anduck

16:52:25 gribble: Anduck was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Anduck> :)

16:52:44 cgcardona_: ;;gettrust Anduck

16:52:44 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user cgcardona_ to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=cgcardona_&dest=Anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012

16:53:02 bounce: why don't you ask him? op on -otc. could be someone nicksquatted you and he was a little too enthousiastic

16:53:11 cgcardona_: ok

16:53:27 cgcardona_: don't see how someone nicksquatted me - i have it registered w/ nickserv

16:54:08 bounce: you don't have it set to enforce it, too

16:54:28 bounce: why didn't you get the nick without _ released and use that? you can still do that, by the by.

16:55:22 cgcardona_: you mean that I don't have nickserv set to enforce my nick registration?

16:55:28 fluffypony: nope

16:55:35 fluffypony: you need to /nickserv set enforce on

16:55:47 fluffypony: although WHY that isn't the default on Freenode is beyond me

16:55:56 cgcardona_: so someone has potentially be impersonating me on here?

16:55:56 cgcardona_: that's no good.

16:55:58 cgcardona_: i should check the logs.

16:55:59 bounce: because we're not all -otc lurkers, you know

16:56:50 fluffypony: http://otcdb.us.to/otc/?cgcardona_&&&&&

16:56:53 ozbot: OTC cgcardona_

16:57:20 cgcardona_: holy shit you're right

16:57:38 cgcardona_: someone joining btc-otc as me on 2014-04-20 07:34:38 CDT and 2014-04-20 07:34:24 CDT

16:57:46 fluffypony: adsl-74-177-71-233.gsp.bellsouth.net

16:57:47 cgcardona_: geez that's unbelievable

16:57:49 fluffypony: from there

16:57:50 fluffypony: yeah

16:57:59 cgcardona_: holy shit. fucking people.

16:58:20 fluffypony: looks like they scammed someone too

16:58:34 cgcardona_: so now that I have it set to enforce it will make someone enter my nickserv each time and if not kick them off of my nick?

16:59:03 *: bounce views nickserv as rather fascist already, nevermind nick enforcing. it's the thing to do on here, but, you know. can also argue that with only gribble it'd give more incentive to check with gribble first and foremost, and to accept no substitutes.

16:59:07 fluffypony: yes

16:59:15 fluffypony: well not kick them off, I think it forces a nick change to GuestXXXXX

16:59:24 cgcardona_: fluffypony: thanks for the help. that totally blows.

16:59:30 cgcardona_: but i guess its good that I found out now

16:59:43 fluffypony: yeah, Anduck will remove the negrating once you get hold of him

16:59:43 cgcardona_: hopefully i can work something out w/ Anduck to find out what happened.

17:00:02 kanzure: you can ghost kill someone squatting on your nick

17:00:20 fluffypony: kanzure: yes, but not if you're not online

17:00:20 bounce: not if you're not on, silly kanzure

17:00:38 fluffypony: heh

17:00:40 kanzure: does this mean i'm dreaming

17:01:05 fluffypony: kanzure: try ghosting yourself as a test :-P

17:02:27 cgcardona_: damn that totally sucks. sheesh

17:02:42 cgcardona_: gotta find the logs for btc-otc and see what the hell happened on those days.

17:03:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5098 BTC [+]

17:04:27 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/an-hero-is-he/

17:04:28 ozbot: An hero is he… pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

17:04:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00013188 = 0.6594 BTC [-] {4}

17:07:14 mircea_popescu: meh it's not done.

17:07:15 mircea_popescu: redoing.

17:08:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.067127 = 0.2014 BTC [+] {2}

17:10:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.50085714 = 3.506 BTC [-] {2}

17:12:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1122 @ 0.00016989 = 0.1906 BTC [+] {6}

17:17:29 jurov: !up daybyter

17:17:29 assbot: Voicing daybyter for 30 minutes.

17:17:46 daybyter: Hi!

17:17:55 jurov: hello

17:18:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 600 @ 0.00018578 = 0.1115 BTC [+] {4}

17:20:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 531 @ 0.0001938 = 0.1029 BTC [+] {5}

17:21:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 2248 @ 0.00025253 = 0.5677 BTC [+] {5}

17:23:08 mircea_popescu: hey

17:24:53 mircea_popescu: !up turbo_ac1001

17:24:53 assbot: Voicing turbo_ac1001 for 30 minutes.

17:24:59 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac1001 you just commented on fraudsters ?

17:26:45 fluffypony: well now he's distracted reading Persion Folklore

17:29:16 mircea_popescu: lol

17:29:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 45 @ 0.0075 = 0.3375 BTC [+]

17:31:19 turbo_ac1001: I did

17:31:38 fluffypony: lol

17:32:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40900 @ 0.00099566 = 40.7225 BTC [-] {2}

17:33:08 mircea_popescu: MTGOX recovery imminent!

17:33:13 mircea_popescu: da fuck

17:33:19 mircea_popescu: !up turbo_ac100

17:33:19 assbot: Voicing turbo_ac100 for 30 minutes.

17:33:22 turbo_ac100: thanks

17:33:25 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: where'd ya see that?

17:33:25 thestringpuller: ah mircea_popescu returns

17:33:32 thestringpuller: rested i see from the exciting conference

17:33:32 mircea_popescu: you may be having a client issue because you got kicked by chanserv.

17:33:42 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller was great.

17:33:50 turbo_ac100: authed with gribble but assbot doesn't let me !up

17:33:56 mircea_popescu: fluffypony google drug it up, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAAOAo&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitcointa.lk%2Fthreads%2Fmtgox-recovery-imminent.262429%2Fpage-2&ei=lUNVU87oN8_y7AbTwIH4Ag&usg=AFQjCNGHHKEJtFolkPKq5bnZP0kHSJ_rRA&bvm=bv.65058239,d.ZGU

17:34:12 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot turbo_ac100

17:34:12 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user turbo_ac100: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=turbo_ac100 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=turbo_ac100 | Rated since: Thu Apr 3 11:09:50 2014

17:34:21 mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 it should. pm it !up

17:34:23 turbo_ac100: trying again (i know right now I'm not authed). There is a flood message I'm gonna reproduce now

17:34:32 fluffypony: "Sure, but a new CEO would suffice to reestablish trust."

17:34:36 fluffypony: l.o.l.

17:34:43 mircea_popescu: i vote for danny.

17:35:27 fluffypony: underwritten by Ken Slaughter?

17:35:35 mircea_popescu: or shakaru

17:36:03 turbo_ac100: OF COURSE it works without the flood issues... *sigh*

17:36:10 mircea_popescu: herp

17:36:32 thestringpuller: ;;ident

17:36:33 gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None

17:36:42 thestringpuller: man gribble hasn't gotten knocked for several days

17:36:49 turbo_ac100: The manticore still is a lion though.

17:37:21 mircea_popescu: ;;google "with a vicious streak a mile wide"

17:37:21 gribble: Rabbit of Caerbannog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_of_Caerbannog; Tim the Enchanter (Character) - Quotes - IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0032565/quotes; Faced With a Killer Rabbit - Monty Python Page: http://montypython.50webs.com/scripts/Holy_Grail/Scene20.htm

17:37:33 mircea_popescu: ye noob of little memeledge.

17:37:52 turbo_ac100: ooooh

17:38:34 mircea_popescu: "when mp is wrong, you've probably misunderstood or neglected something"

17:41:20 thestringpuller: when mp is wrong it's usually on something that doesn't matter

17:42:02 thestringpuller: or he knows when he's wrong and doesn't perpetuate it like da scammaz

17:42:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.49078984 = 4.4171 BTC [-] {7}

17:42:21 mircea_popescu: or he's just plain old wrong

17:42:29 thestringpuller: lolol

17:43:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 38 @ 0.00481 = 0.1828 BTC [-]

17:43:13 turbo_ac100: So why not the manticore then? #justargumentumecontrariothings

17:43:52 mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, she was wearing a corset so it kinda looked to me like a playboy bunny of yore

17:43:57 mircea_popescu: it's supposed to be a soft joke

17:45:08 thestringpuller: corsets are fancy tho

17:45:09 turbo_ac100: Romanian soft?

17:45:12 thestringpuller: lol

17:45:28 mircea_popescu: howssat ?

17:45:29 thestringpuller: mp doesn't go to many nerd conventions where the girls cosplay in steampunk with corsets galore

17:45:44 mircea_popescu: btw, i kinda have a bet with mpoe-pr as to who shows up here first, asciilifeform or thickasthieves.

17:45:49 mircea_popescu: anyone wanna take sides ?

17:45:53 thestringpuller: i dunno corsets are expensive, classy and sexy all at the sametime

17:46:03 thestringpuller: asciilifeform will be first

17:46:11 mircea_popescu: i think so too.

17:46:36 thestringpuller: did TaT go to MP-Con '14 ?

17:47:03 mircea_popescu: ya

17:47:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13811 @ 0.00099298 = 13.714 BTC [-] {2}

17:47:21 mircea_popescu: lol i wonder if there exists a secret underground ScamCon

17:47:33 bounce: yes?

17:48:17 mircea_popescu: where do they hold it ? little italy ? nigeria ?

17:48:19 bounce: well, not so secret. was another "discovery" from some security blogging company or other; buncha roossians had started their own coin

17:48:42 thestringpuller: LOL in nigeria...

17:50:33 fluffypony: turbo_ac100: maybe we can get #justmanticorethings trending?

17:50:45 bounce: what was that picture again, of some narco guy's mansion with on the order of 18bn in usd and assorted further currencies in various places, down to simply stacked in a room. one'd think that's enough to buy an underground bunker to store the stuff.

17:52:18 bounce: oh, apparently misremembered, only 207mn usd. still, what's an underground bunker or two cost these days?

17:52:34 *: bounce wonders where the 18bn figure came from.

17:52:46 mircea_popescu: bounce 18bn in usd is something like

17:52:56 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 22 * 18000

17:52:56 gribble: 396000

17:53:02 mircea_popescu: 4mn lbs.

17:53:26 bounce: lbs? what are you, a merkin?

17:53:47 mircea_popescu: fine, 2k tons

17:54:02 turbo_ac100: fluffypony: will try :)

17:54:14 bounce: or about 2 gigagram. give or take.

17:55:24 bounce: https://imgur.com/a/DYU2e says it's 22bn

17:55:24 ozbot: Mexican Drug Lord home after being raided - Imgur

17:57:29 mircea_popescu: bs

17:57:34 mircea_popescu: that's not "billionz"

17:57:49 fluffypony: there's no way

17:57:53 fluffypony: that is 22bn

17:58:10 mircea_popescu: 10 x 34 on the surface, like 60 or so deep

17:58:18 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 10 * 34 * 60000

17:58:18 gribble: 20400000

17:58:35 mircea_popescu: like 200ish mn there.

17:59:14 fluffypony: 207 mil to be exact

17:59:17 fluffypony: nicely calculated

17:59:24 fluffypony: http://www.businessinsider.com/zhenli-ye-gon-causes-trouble-for-las-vegas-sands-2012-8

17:59:25 ozbot: Zhenli Ye Gon Causes Trouble For Las Vegas Sands - Business Insider

17:59:46 fluffypony: "A raid of his home in the wealthy neighborhood of Mexico City produced what police described as "the largest single drug cash seizure the world has ever seen." Almost $207 million sat in the house in cash. Seven high-powered firearms were also in the house, the New York Times reported."

18:00:12 bounce: apt, though. consider what happens to reported prices, the so called "street value"

18:00:20 fluffypony: also the third picture is an actual museum

18:00:21 fluffypony: http://internacional.elpais.com/internacional/2013/06/18/album/1371516659_231755.html#1371516659_231755_1371517565

18:00:34 fluffypony: so that's just embellishment

18:02:15 fluffypony: also that bit at the end is way wrong

18:02:18 bounce: curiously, a load of stolen garlic got recovered (border agents smelled something), and the value reported sounded like they used wholesale prices, not "supermarket prices".

18:02:22 fluffypony: "$22 billion/[(310 million people)(12 years)(~$5,000/person/year)]=0.0012. $22 billion would meet about 0.12% of the health insurance costs for 12 years. Actual cost would be $18.6 trillion. Health insurance would have to cost $5.91 per person per year for $22 billion to cover everyone for 12 years."

18:02:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4132 @ 0.00099584 = 4.1148 BTC [+]

18:03:02 mircea_popescu: shit mpoe-pr wins

18:03:06 mircea_popescu: !up Shakespeare

18:03:06 assbot: Voicing Shakespeare for 30 minutes.

18:03:21 Shakespeare: I signed on just to beat stan

18:03:25 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

18:03:30 Shakespeare: I'm in NJ airport :)

18:03:35 mircea_popescu: lmao

18:03:40 mircea_popescu: nj has an airport ?!

18:03:51 Shakespeare: surprised me too

18:04:02 Shakespeare: it has a retarded ticker too

18:04:05 Shakespeare: ear

18:04:10 Shakespeare: ewr

18:04:19 Shakespeare: for Newark

18:04:19 mircea_popescu: hello sir, here are your ear-wax tickets

18:04:45 Shakespeare: ewr not ear though

18:05:00 Shakespeare: just my tablet autocorrect...

18:05:43 mircea_popescu: !up _aeon

18:05:43 assbot: Voicing _aeon for 30 minutes.

18:05:45 Shakespeare: so for 9 hours over the ocean guess who I get seated with

18:05:55 mircea_popescu: this bombshell redhead

18:06:09 Shakespeare: poor young tourettes girl

18:06:15 mircea_popescu: no fucking way ?!

18:06:16 Shakespeare: barking and such

18:06:26 Shakespeare: yeah

18:06:44 mircea_popescu: i never met anyone with actual tourettes.

18:06:57 Shakespeare: it didn't bother me other than sadden me

18:07:19 Shakespeare: she was embarrassed when it got bad, putting blanket over her face

18:08:24 Duffer1: poor kid

18:08:25 fluffypony: shame man

18:10:26 mircea_popescu: o look who's here. quick someone call teh bitcoin police

18:10:40 davout: :D

18:10:51 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare i still have trouble wrapping my head around the notion.

18:11:16 mircea_popescu: i mean, i don't actually think that w/e, they're faking it. but it just fails to compute on the intuitive level.

18:11:18 davout: i found france

18:11:18 Shakespeare: for the record, davout lost at least 1.5 games

18:11:42 davout: Shakespeare: i beg your pardon

18:11:55 Shakespeare: its true!

18:12:09 Shakespeare: remember the rules argument?

18:12:11 mircea_popescu: what sort of scam french invincibility is this

18:12:31 Shakespeare: and then later me and someone else won for deals

18:12:38 Shakespeare: realz

18:12:46 davout: Shakespeare: i'm not sure i follow

18:12:56 Shakespeare: that's OK

18:13:04 Shakespeare: this is tat btw

18:13:55 davout: mircea_popescu: i wish to apologize for my rudeness in marking my territory in timisoara repeatedly

18:14:08 mircea_popescu: lol

18:14:11 davout: Shakespeare: was your trip back ok ?

18:14:33 Shakespeare: meh

18:14:40 Shakespeare: see logs

18:14:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 150 @ 0.00461215 = 0.6918 BTC [-] {10}

18:14:49 Shakespeare: I still in NJ too

18:15:34 Shakespeare: I had to go thru security 3 times once I got to US

18:15:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00099058 = 13.3728 BTC [-] {3}

18:15:58 Shakespeare: and check my bags all over again

18:16:03 Shakespeare: good times

18:16:34 Shakespeare: I did get to hang with ASCII at two airports though

18:16:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 58 @ 0.00220865 = 0.1281 BTC [-] {9}

18:16:57 davout: !up Oleanie

18:16:57 assbot: Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.

18:17:34 davout: Shakespeare: gotta love the cavity searches

18:17:42 davout: ftr Oleanie == Fanny

18:18:39 Shakespeare: ah cool

18:18:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 28 @ 0.04488566 = 1.2568 BTC [+] {4}

18:19:02 davout: mircea_popescu: the rosé is very nice

18:19:22 Shakespeare: customs let me keep my champagne btw

18:19:36 mircea_popescu: ;;rate Oleanie 1 She rides.

18:19:37 gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.

18:19:39 davout: Shakespeare: cabin luggage ?

18:19:47 mircea_popescu: davout nao you tell her how to gpg yes ?

18:19:55 davout: mircea_popescu: imma explain it all to her a bit later

18:20:05 Shakespeare: I wrapped it in my clothesline my checked baggage

18:20:13 Oleanie: we are drinking ours

18:20:15 mircea_popescu: !b 2

18:20:16 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1789955/plain/)

18:20:20 Shakespeare: lol not clothesline

18:20:22 mircea_popescu: clothesline srsly ?

18:20:31 Shakespeare: autocorrect...

18:20:34 davout: Shakespeare: that's the only way you can get it through

18:20:50 mircea_popescu: davout after you drink it i'll tell you what it cost.

18:21:39 davout: mircea_popescu: it has been drinked

18:21:54 davout: drank/drunk, what is the correct one ?

18:21:59 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare it's hysterical because well... wine fermented in the bottle can well explode.

18:22:07 davout: mircea_popescu: Oleanie still has some in her glass

18:22:10 mircea_popescu: but they won't let you take i dunno, lotion. i nevere heard of lotion exploding

18:22:15 Shakespeare: ASCII gave your cabbie a bunch $20 bills this morning. I couldn't tell which of them enjoyed it more

18:22:16 mircea_popescu: davout drunk

18:22:27 mircea_popescu: Shakespeare haha

18:22:45 mircea_popescu: guy definitely enjoys a lot of stuff huh.

18:23:02 davout: Shakespeare mircea_popescu our cab driver started the ride by yelling "Shumacher shumacher!"

18:23:09 mircea_popescu: lmao

18:23:33 mircea_popescu: davout was like... hey, i know you set it up for us to be there in time, but could you cancel it so we go on foot 7 1/2 hours later ?

18:23:43 mircea_popescu: we're from france and so we like to wait uncomfortably in airports

18:23:55 mircea_popescu: it's like... when you come out from under sea, you gotta re-aclimatize to the suck.

18:24:12 mircea_popescu: 7 1/2 hours earlier i mean.

18:24:28 jurov: lmao my cabbie (when i got lost a bit on arrival) refused to accept 10 euro bill

18:24:39 jurov: eventually he gave me change in lei

18:24:47 davout: mircea_popescu: naaah, we met mike_c there

18:25:05 mircea_popescu: o dude.

18:25:22 davout: we were just 30 min early

18:25:29 davout: i really hate being in a rush

18:25:34 mircea_popescu: mike_c threw me for a fucking loop. cause afaik he was leaving tomorrow, right ? so i had secretary call hotel front desk to sert up lunch, cause i figured... we can do lunch

18:25:49 mircea_popescu: she calls me in a total panic, cause well... he's gone ?! and she suspects the idiot receptionist kicked him out maybne ?

18:25:55 davout: LOL

18:25:58 Shakespeare: lol

18:26:13 mircea_popescu: so you know, i go there like a fucking ride of valkiries screaming all the way from like outside, WHO DUN IT!

18:26:16 Shakespeare: he had some trouble with the time zones :)

18:26:17 mircea_popescu: the girl, bring me the girl

18:26:38 mircea_popescu: so they fetch her and she's completely dumbfounded... guy came, witgh his bags, checked out and left. how is she to know he's not to be allowed to leave ?!

18:27:27 mircea_popescu: but eventually they checked the airline and he was there so. disaster averte

18:27:28 mircea_popescu: d

18:27:33 Shakespeare: dude a pigeon just flew by me

18:27:37 Shakespeare: in the airport

18:27:40 mircea_popescu: did it whistle correctly ?

18:27:47 Shakespeare: fucking NJ

18:27:53 Shakespeare: it was silent

18:28:00 fluffypony: like a bat?

18:28:09 mircea_popescu: bats aren't silent

18:28:14 mircea_popescu: i can fucking hear them.

18:28:15 fluffypony: thatsthejoke.gif

18:28:20 Shakespeare: like a silent dove but not

18:28:36 mircea_popescu: nojokesallowed.pdf

18:28:47 fluffypony: didyougpgencryptthat.questionmark

18:29:03 mircea_popescu: yes, which is why its spelled questionlark

18:29:06 Shakespeare: karpelesceosuite.exe

18:29:28 fluffypony: Shakespeare: wouldn't it be .php3 ?

18:29:40 mircea_popescu: it would be ===php4

18:29:48 Shakespeare: no cuz its a scam

18:29:57 davout: fluffypony: you'd click it in doubt, and that's the whole point :-)

18:30:10 Shakespeare: csstml 5

18:30:10 fluffypony: lawl

18:30:16 fluffypony: node.js!

18:30:52 mircea_popescu: i gotta get taleb to write about bitcoin.

18:30:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00013091 = 0.2618 BTC [-]

18:31:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.02951683 = 0.7379 BTC [-] {8}

18:31:18 mircea_popescu: quoting for stan's own pleasure :

18:31:19 mircea_popescu: I would like to record here (so people get off my back) that I do not belong to the so-called "Austrian School" of economics, in spite of a few similar positions on bailouts and bottom-up systems. I believe in mathematical statements. But if I were to belong to a school of thought designated by a nationality, the {NATIONALITY} SCHOOL of {DISCIPLINE} it would be the Russian school of probability.

18:31:19 mircea_popescu: Members across three generations: P.L. Chebyshev, A.A. Markov, A.M. Lyapunov, S.N. Bernshtein (ie. Bernstein), E.E. Slutskii, N.V. Smirnov, L.N. Bol'shev, V.I. Romanovskii, A.N. Kolmogorov,Yu.V. Linnik, and the new generation: V Petrov, S.V. Nagaev, A.V. Nagaev, A. Shyrayev, etc.

18:31:27 davout: mircea_popescu: he's already tweeted stuff iirc

18:31:45 mircea_popescu: davout i mean specifically. or to quote again,

18:32:13 mircea_popescu: "Margo I have lived in the theatre as a Trappist monk lives in his faith"

18:32:32 fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23l56v/qr_codes_are_dead/

18:32:36 ozbot: QR codes are dead : Bitcoin

18:32:36 mircea_popescu: "I have no other world, no other life."

18:32:44 fluffypony: so apparently the way we *should* be using Bitcoin

18:32:49 fluffypony: is through Bluetooth LE

18:32:55 fluffypony: and we'll just keep our phones in our pocket

18:32:59 fluffypony: and walk up to the counter

18:33:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.02913635 = 0.3205 BTC [-] {5}

18:33:06 mircea_popescu: " QR codes have been around and hyped for years, but they were never used as much as developers and marketing people hoped." << truth.

18:33:06 fluffypony: and the cashier will say "PayPal or Bitcoin, sir?"

18:33:11 fluffypony: and we'll say "Bitcoin"

18:33:21 fluffypony: and the money will just magically come off without us needing to authorise it

18:33:29 mircea_popescu: here's a funny story : bar where we watered saturday night, had an advertising above the urinal. on that advertising, aqr code.

18:33:40 mircea_popescu: it was unreadable, because the frame covered it.

18:33:41 fluffypony: "No ugly smartphone unlocking, app starting, camera pointing at a fancy QR code. No, all handsfree, how it needs to work."

18:34:06 cgcardona_: i actually think bitcoin is QR code's killer app

18:34:08 mircea_popescu: !up Shakespeare

18:34:08 assbot: Voicing Shakespeare for 30 minutes.

18:34:09 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: besides, who's sober enough to scan a QR code?

18:34:15 mircea_popescu: fluffypony ikr ?

18:34:19 davout: mircea_popescu: right hand is for the dick, left for the smartphone

18:34:23 mircea_popescu: cgcardona_ could be, but somehow i doubt it.

18:34:27 mircea_popescu: !up JoshG

18:34:27 assbot: Voicing JoshG for 30 minutes.

18:34:36 mircea_popescu: davout and the balls ?!

18:34:45 davout: mircea_popescu: teh girl

18:35:11 cgcardona_: also, my 5 year old son is obsessed w/ qr codes. He askes me to scan everyone that we see (yes this could backfire one day). I think people of his generation will find QR codes quite intuitive

18:35:12 mircea_popescu: "my prediction is". da fguck is this shit, "cluster4" is now making "my prediction" ?

18:35:14 davout: nah, in all seriousness, i don't know about you, but i don't piss with my balls

18:35:25 mircea_popescu: people have a lot of difficulty groking that if you're anonymous... there is no property.

18:35:30 mircea_popescu: there's no "my" in anonimity.

18:35:52 mircea_popescu: davout no idea how you can piss with teh girl handling your balls.

18:35:54 davout: mircea_popescu: being anonymous doesn't mean there is no idnentity

18:36:02 davout: mircea_popescu: years of training

18:36:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 25 @ 0.00600001 = 0.15 BTC [+]

18:36:11 mircea_popescu: davout ne confondre pas anonimite e pseudonimite, i say!

18:36:27 davout: anonymous, absence of name, not of identity

18:36:35 mircea_popescu: anonymous is absence of identity.

18:36:42 mircea_popescu: like, joe schmuck on reddit. is not a person.

18:36:49 mircea_popescu: it's not even a thing. it's gas.

18:37:45 mircea_popescu: "as it's use is very limited"

18:38:03 davout: mircea_popescu: i'd say fungibility is the absence of identity, anonymity is the absence of name, but i'm too tipsy on that delicious rosé champagne to even imagine arguing the point properly

18:38:09 mircea_popescu: stupid enough to not realise he can't have a "my" as nobody, clueless enough to fail to distinguish a verb from a possessive. this is reddit.

18:38:21 mircea_popescu: davout so argue it tomorrow.

18:40:45 mircea_popescu: curious to see how you'll argue cluster4 is not fungible with cluster3 or derpymcherp or w/e.

18:41:41 mircea_popescu: this entire shit is backwards. views, which are not fungible, people pretend are in fact fungible. then anons, which are absolutely fungible, people pretend like are not. apparently the web is quite counterintuitive.

18:43:17 davout: mircea_popescu: derps might be fungible as anonymous entities, entities we couldn't care to name, it doesn't really impede their ability to each own a bitcent

18:43:45 davout: brb

18:45:06 mircea_popescu: but that's irrelevant for this discussion innit.

18:45:30 mircea_popescu: the opinion of derp1 is exactly equal to the opinion of derp2 inasmuch as we don't know anything about 'em.

18:46:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18993 @ 0.00099071 = 18.8166 BTC [+] {2}

18:52:23 davout: mircea_popescu: yes, but fungibility and anonymity lie in the observer, property lies with the things themselves

18:52:26 bounce: yeah, no. with davout on this one, "anonymity" is lack of a label, not necessarily lack of an underlying identity. on the flip side, you already know what jehova's witnesses will try and tell you without you needing their name, regardless of whether they offer their name. if they do, they're no longer anonymous. it doesn't affect your esteem for what they're trying to tell you.

18:52:31 mircea_popescu: http://www.lambiek.net/artists/image/m/mas_r/mas_pifou_pg6904.jpg

18:52:51 mircea_popescu: davout the fact that the person "deep down" "twu wuvs" you is immaterial.

18:53:00 mircea_popescu: for all you know pet rocks have distinct personalities.

18:53:33 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: looks like I lost the bet

18:53:40 mircea_popescu: aye.

18:53:45 thestringpuller: :(

18:53:55 mircea_popescu: bounce anon jehova's witnesses are not people.

18:54:12 mircea_popescu: to personalize they need to de-jehova-witnessize for you, before you.

18:54:19 davout: derp1 and derp2 might be fungible from our pov, but derp1 can still own 1 btc while derp2 owns 2

18:54:24 mircea_popescu: so ?

18:54:26 bounce: not to you. inside their own circles their worth is measured by their zeal.

18:54:32 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: there's an H on end

18:54:38 mircea_popescu: but what happens inside the pet rock is uninteresting in this discussion.

18:54:49 mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah k.

18:55:26 davout: mircea_popescu: it is, because knowledge of different informations translates directly to ownership, or non-ownership of bitcoins for example

18:55:41 mircea_popescu: unless and untill this becomes transpared to you it is immaterial.

18:55:52 mircea_popescu: after it becomes transparent to you, it already broke that anonimity.

18:56:15 bounce: soldiers are cannon fodder to you, individuals to themselves and their bosses. look, they even wear name tags.

18:56:33 mircea_popescu: but what they are, for as long as they DON

18:56:40 thestringpuller: ;;seen mod6

18:56:41 gribble: mod6 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <mod6> $vwap s.mpoe

18:56:41 mircea_popescu: T wear dogtags, is fungible gas.

18:57:55 mircea_popescu: "A 43-year-old programmer who helped set in motion a class-action lawsuit against the companies and became one of its five class representatives will not be present in the San Jose courtroom. He was shot and killed by the police last December."

18:58:01 mircea_popescu: funny how accidents work.

18:58:26 bounce: very funny indeed

18:58:35 davout: i don't think that my ability to distinguish derps is really related to their ability to own stuff, it is not necessary for me to be able to know they are able to destroy a bitcoin for them to actually be able to destroy a bitcoin

18:59:20 mircea_popescu: davout your ability to distinguish derps is however central to their ability to exist.

18:59:43 mircea_popescu: you can be bios, but you can not be zoon unrecognised.

19:00:03 mircea_popescu: so yes, animals they can be. people however, they can not be, unless recognised.

19:00:25 bounce: there's this conflation of "person" to mean "someone who matters (to me)", which is highly viewpoint-dependent. your basic definition appears to be "someone who matters in the bitcoin sphere and can be trusted not to fsck up (too badly)". might need a suitable word for that.

19:00:52 mircea_popescu: bounce it merely means "someone who can be distinguished from the others"

19:01:16 davout: what you're saying is pretty much that derps exist in a quantum superposition of owning, and not-owning stuff, and that their actual ownership resolves when i actually observe, aka measure them

19:01:19 mircea_popescu: which reduces to "someone who could, in principle, matter"

19:01:21 davout: right?

19:01:29 mircea_popescu: because the undistinguishable can't ever matter, by definition.

19:01:38 mircea_popescu: davout pretty good approach yeah

19:01:56 mircea_popescu: speaking of "different" derps is like speaking of photons as billiard balls.

19:02:07 davout: that is true if you consider that everything that matters is only what you have knowledge of

19:02:07 mircea_popescu: perhaps an excusable approximation in some narrow cases, but wrong in principle.

19:02:23 mircea_popescu: davout everythint that matters is only what COULD BE HAD knowledge of.

19:02:24 bounce: ``In ancient Rome, the word "persona" (Latin) or "prosopon" ([...]: Greek) originally referred to the masks worn by actors on stage.'' --wikipedia

19:02:39 mircea_popescu: bounce fun fact... that yielded romanian prosop, which means... towel.

19:02:59 bounce: those come in handy hitchhiking

19:04:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0671117 = 0.6711 BTC [-] {5}

19:04:33 bounce: anyway that doesn't help much, since "distinguishing from the others" implies a yardstick, that in turn is a choice bound by context

19:05:04 mircea_popescu: not so.

19:05:29 mircea_popescu: yardstick is a matter of measuring, and thus relegated to quantitative discussions. we're discussing qualitative matters here.

19:06:29 bounce: we're measuring the quality. when is someone a person? whether the scale is actually countable is immaterial.

19:06:44 bounce: s/is countable/has countable subdivisions/

19:06:49 mircea_popescu: nah.

19:07:09 bounce: you still end up with two ends of a stick. "person", "not a person"

19:07:51 mircea_popescu: how are these ends of a stick ? there's no continuum

19:09:18 bounce: or sides. you can discern both states, even if the distance between them is infinitesmal and only exists as an idea to boot

19:09:57 bounce: when's the liquour strong enough? well, if it's over $strength. something like that.

19:10:15 mircea_popescu: let's try a different tack. you know what a cog is. you also know what a sphere is.

19:10:28 mircea_popescu: good anonimity, just like good sphericity, relies on not being a cog. at all.

19:10:45 mircea_popescu: conversely, good cogicity, just like good personhood, relies on not being a sphere. at all.

19:11:01 davout: bounce: the way i understand the argument is that ownership is akin to the state of an electron, until you observe it exists in a superposition of states, it can only have a state when you observe it

19:11:02 mircea_popescu: now, this does not reduce to "liquor being strong ENOUGH"

19:11:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 19 @ 0.02838964 = 0.5394 BTC [-] {10}

19:11:44 mircea_popescu: it reduces to being liquour or oil.

19:11:53 mircea_popescu: good oil is not alcohol. good alcohol is not oil.

19:12:33 davout: speaking of which i'm on way to pop the second bottle, please disregard all my further comments

19:12:40 mircea_popescu: there's no serious consideration of an oil-alcohol mixture being "storng enough", as you won't drink vodka-canoia oil cocktails

19:13:07 bounce: disagree. it'd mean that the only good person be a totally non-anonymous person, so, real personhood is only open to, say, obama. or dubya.

19:13:59 mircea_popescu: bounce actually, misplaced shards of anonimity ruin personhood. which is why i keep having to ask derps posing as ceos here "who's we".

19:14:13 mircea_popescu: conversely, misplaced shards of personhood ruin anonimity. such as w/e, silk road guy.

19:19:12 mircea_popescu: "Now academics learn to take a paper or a class of papers, imitate the style, the organization; copy the phraseology, discuss the historical literature and find some wrinkle on the problem that makes it look like a contribution. This is what tends to be published, and this is what seems to be "original". And these works never survive the author."

19:19:32 mircea_popescu: because someone somewhere in a bureaucracy figured it's a good idea to fucking industrialise research.

19:19:38 mircea_popescu: may he never rest.

19:20:39 bounce: guy posing as "CEO" claiming to have lots of minions needs a good team. since claim made, up to him to back it up. that's not quite the same as requiring to know his every move or his every thought.

19:21:14 bounce: s/back it up/&, show he has such a team/ etc. bit forgetful with the details today

19:21:16 mircea_popescu: nobody requires to know his every move or thought in any sense.

19:21:35 bounce: that's be implied through "total non-anonymity" though

19:21:39 mircea_popescu: only iyo.

19:21:55 bounce: no. hence the conflation.

19:22:29 mircea_popescu: the criteria is good wot relations, not "knowing their every thought"

19:22:30 bounce: I'm not disagreeing with what you're trying to say, just that the terminology could stand improvement.

19:22:37 mircea_popescu: the devil himself knows not the thought of man

19:23:02 bounce: (yet god knows every thought of the devil's, and being a good little god... lets him be?)

19:23:24 mircea_popescu: if god actually knew every thought of the devil, he'd have not been surprised.

19:23:41 mircea_popescu: god'd like to. but tis impossible, inasmuch as the devil is human, and god is not that good.

19:23:42 bounce: you're saying the poor devil is unoriginal?

19:23:55 mircea_popescu: i am saying that the poor god is incapable.

19:24:29 bounce: oh well. AIUI paradise lost would beg to differ. haven't gotten around to actually reading the thing.

19:25:03 mircea_popescu: how's it differ ?

19:25:44 bounce: anyway, "good wot relations" means that you've met and dealt with a number of other people, and gathered their esteem, and in doing so gathered a total esteem enough to be deemed worthy of the community as a whole.

19:26:02 bounce: "liqour strong enough" if you will

19:26:25 mircea_popescu: understanding rather than esteem. the people you've dealt with are marks you may be recognised by.

19:26:44 mircea_popescu: in no sense is this a numeric problem,

19:26:53 mircea_popescu: which is why no numeric methods work for this task.

19:27:11 bounce: and every user has a differend yardstick, making the whole thing subjective to use.

19:27:21 mircea_popescu: two hours ago i said i suspect i'm weeks away from a major breakthrough in economics.

19:27:30 mircea_popescu: i think this discussion shaved a week off.

19:27:47 mircea_popescu: bounce im not sure you have a usable definition of subjective in mind.

19:27:55 bounce: also more or less saved me having to do a write-up

19:27:59 mircea_popescu: if it's the kneejerk "not usg diddled" then might as well discard it.

19:30:17 bounce: "subjective" as every user of the wot looking to form an opinion on some other user of the wot does so as he deems good, mayhaps taking into account that raters will also use their own criteria to rate with.

19:30:24 bounce: s/as /as in /

19:30:45 mircea_popescu: so inasmuch as good is done, this is optimal not subjective.

19:31:08 mircea_popescu: if he looked to do what he felt like it could have been subjective, as a proxy for aesthetic i guess.

19:32:12 bounce: what I mean is that even if the outcome is roughly the same for different onlookers, their conclusions are (supposedly) their own; like how you notice that there's no intl. standard of interpreting ratings. nor should there be.

19:33:01 mircea_popescu: which is ultimately why no numerical approach.

19:33:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.03099869 = 0.186 BTC [+] {5}

19:33:11 bounce: you could still try and throw statistics at it, but that doesn't change the underlying subjectivity

19:33:33 mircea_popescu: are you using "subjectivity" merely to note the fact that the numeric method does not apply ?

19:35:30 bounce: hmno.

19:37:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.063133 = 1.2627 BTC [-] {10}

19:38:42 bounce: WOT ratings can well mean different things to you and me. they're not even ment to be used "objectively", ie in a manner independent of people's opinions.

19:39:14 mircea_popescu: give me an example of such an objectively.

19:40:23 bounce: an objective measure? a metre, standard the world over.

19:40:29 mircea_popescu: enacted by ?

19:40:38 mircea_popescu: worst possible fucking example.

19:42:28 bounce: whether I take a tape measure to $derp or you do it, when done correctly we both will conclude the guy's length to be $whatever. that'd be objective. we both look at his WOT ratings, we might well draw different conclusions on the same data.

19:43:12 bounce: we could devise a "standard" scoring test for WOT ratings and still draw differing conclusions based on what we see

19:43:16 mircea_popescu: this is more akin to you using inches and me using cm.

19:43:39 mircea_popescu: both of these "objectively" examples you provide strictly adhere to your definition of subjectivity,

19:43:48 mircea_popescu: they exist as a result of people's opinions.

19:44:25 bounce: er? I gave one objective and one subjective example?

19:45:03 mircea_popescu: <bounce> an objective measure? a metre, standard the world over. < 1 ; <bounce> whether I take a tape measure to $derp or you do it, when done correctly we both will conclude the guy's length to be $whatever. < 2

19:45:33 mircea_popescu: your "done corectly" is there precisely because you too know this :

19:45:43 mircea_popescu: god help us if our opinions of these subjectives do not agree.

19:46:39 bounce: both're objective; I don't need a judgement call here, I look at the tape measure.

19:47:23 mircea_popescu: but you need a judgement call for the tape measure to exist in the first place.

19:48:10 mircea_popescu: you seem to be roughly in the position of the slave who says his master's will is divine in nature, because it's outside of his reach.

19:48:22 bounce: eh, I think we're past that. I can put three lava lamps on a table and count them. you'll count three too. no feels or beliefs involved. even if our counting system is ultimately arbitrary in it existence

19:48:22 mircea_popescu: while outside of his reach it may well be, his master's just another guy.

19:48:50 mircea_popescu: so numbers are your standard of objectivity, but then when i ask you <mircea_popescu> are you using "subjectivity" merely to note the fact that the numeric method does not apply ? you say no.

19:49:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 50 @ 0.00600001 = 0.3 BTC [+]

19:50:20 bounce: well, what is "the numeric method"? I can devise and use a system of numeric scales based on how much I feel I know about someone else.

19:50:37 bounce: the end result to that would still be subjective. someone else might well feel a different way.

19:53:25 davout: meanwhile, in timisoara : http://i.imgur.com/kBnMktn.jpg

19:55:11 mircea_popescu: lol

19:56:00 davout: !up Oleanie

19:56:00 assbot: Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.

19:56:10 Oleanie: i love this one ^^

19:56:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.0009891 = 8.259 BTC [-] {3}

19:57:08 mircea_popescu: hello kitty

19:57:10 bounce: curious how that thing is such a stayer. as an antidote: http://web.archive.org/web/20010221014629/http://www.gci-net.com/users/w/wildeman/Sanrio.txt

19:57:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.066108 = 0.6611 BTC [+] {2}

19:59:30 mircea_popescu: !up lamosty

19:59:30 assbot: Voicing lamosty for 30 minutes.

20:01:34 davout: bounce: stopped after chapter one

20:02:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35050 @ 0.00099321 = 34.812 BTC [+] {3}

20:20:44 mircea_popescu: mkay, so i'm writing a seminal, major and epic work called "a complete theory of economics".

20:20:59 mircea_popescu: sadly this has to start by my translating three older romanian articles, but c'est la vie.

20:21:37 bounce: so, google translate work better straight to english or via french or/and latin first?

20:21:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00099521 = 15.2267 BTC [+]

20:24:27 mircea_popescu: it doesn't work at sall unless you're after humor.

20:35:56 jborkl: hehe you said semen

20:36:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13502 @ 0.00099521 = 13.4373 BTC [+] {2}

20:38:04 fluffypony: jborkl: semen-all

20:38:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00099707 = 8.6247 BTC [+]

20:38:53 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno why the dude reverts to assuming personal attacks other than maybe the one sided blindess impressed upon the legal profession.

20:46:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.0009945 = 7.1604 BTC [-] {2}

20:49:17 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: when do we get _fraudsters: The Book_

20:52:42 fluffypony: http://imgur.com/a/NEHRT

20:52:42 ozbot: 13 Hilarious and Sexist Dating Tips From 1938. - Imgur

20:52:44 fluffypony: oh the 30s

20:56:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4720 @ 0.00099439 = 4.6935 BTC [-]

20:57:07 mircea_popescu: rithm lol

20:57:14 mircea_popescu: wait wut! cheating of voice!

20:57:48 mircea_popescu: lol

20:57:55 mircea_popescu: !up rithm

20:57:55 assbot: Voicing rithm for 30 minutes.

20:58:22 rithm: be vewwwwy kwiet. im hunting wabbits

20:58:59 rithm: but this though: http://imgur.com/VTBX0dg

21:01:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8973 @ 0.00099425 = 8.9214 BTC [-]

21:03:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49000005 = 0.98 BTC [-] {2}

21:05:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5791 @ 0.00098861 = 5.725 BTC [-]

21:09:27 cgcardona_: ;;rate danielpbarron 1 #bitcoin-assets regular and defended me when a scammer squatted on my nick in #bitcoin-otc

21:09:28 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user danielpbarron has changed from 1 to 1.

21:09:31 cgcardona_: thanks btw ^

21:09:32 artifexd: cgcardona_: I wouldn't worry about total wot rating since it is a meaningless number.

21:10:07 artifexd: Sometimes a negative rating would be a good thing depending on who it came from.

21:10:20 fluffypony: like from Supa

21:10:29 artifexd: Imagine you had a negative rating from mtgox with the comment "TROLL!!!!!!"

21:10:40 cgcardona_: haha.

21:10:42 artifexd: I would see such a rating as reflecting positively on the ratee.

21:10:53 cgcardona_: interesting way to look at it.

21:13:43 rithm: i'd almost pay for a negrate from mgicaltux

21:13:48 rithm: *magicaltux

21:14:09 rithm: negrate from a scammer is a badge of honor

21:14:32 artifexd: Exactly. So you can't just look at the sum of the ratings and learn anything useful.

21:15:43 artifexd: Does anyone know of any wot visualization tools? I imagine something like bubbles with names and the lines connecting those bubbles are colored/weighted according to the rating.

21:15:48 bounce: sure you can. "person has been rated N times, some positive, some negative." -- negative ratings might well be the more interesting to read.

21:16:31 artifexd: When I said "look at the sum", I meant look at the single number which is the sum of all ratings.

21:17:36 bounce: the fact that it exists at all is an interesting datum, inasmuch it doesn't say "not rated yet"

21:18:25 bounce: if it's well over 10 or -10 that's a clear indication it wasn't by just one rating either

21:18:26 artifexd: I would argue that the fact that it exists at all encourages the improper use of the wot.

21:18:55 bounce: no railroading powertools

21:27:35 mircea_popescu: artifexd actually the controlling example is... anduck himself has a total negaitve

21:27:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 57 @ 0.06269212 = 3.5735 BTC [-] {5}

21:28:03 mircea_popescu: also :

21:28:10 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust artifexd

21:28:11 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask artifexd!sid28611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zasykpxnqiqgtbip. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user artifexd: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=artifexd | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=artifexd | Rated since: Wed Mar 5 02:06:14 2014

21:28:23 mircea_popescu: first one.

21:28:28 mircea_popescu: !up rithm

21:28:28 assbot: Voicing rithm for 30 minutes.

21:29:14 rithm: why must we voice me

21:29:20 rithm: the bot is dumb

21:29:29 artifexd: mircea_popescu: When asking about the visual tool, I meant for the whole wot. Specifically to identify islands, groups, etc.

21:29:47 mircea_popescu: dexX7 published one recently iirc.

21:29:57 mircea_popescu: rithm because you have no wot.

21:29:57 rithm: can't someone just run a normal eggdrop bot and auto voice people

21:29:58 kakobrekla: rithm up yourself on pm

21:29:59 rithm: gaH

21:30:08 kakobrekla: or that.


21:30:16 rithm: and my caps getsd stuck

21:30:16 mircea_popescu: so stop sucking

21:30:22 kakobrekla: i think not anymore

21:30:37 rithm: lemme try

21:31:25 artifexd: Interestingly, wrt anduck, he has a total of -69. There are 7 -10 ratings that are CLEARLY from the same person.

21:32:09 rithm: b-o-r-i-n-g

21:32:11 rithm: ;;ident

21:32:11 gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'rithm', with hostmask 'rithm!~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm', is identified as user 'jcpham', with GPG key id C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, key fingerprint F7299BD73879E866613EAB24C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, and bitcoin address 157CrafPv8oGC7f5vVFuLnE1BgDYUND4hq

21:32:15 rithm: ;;unauth

21:32:15 gribble: Your GPG session has been terminated.

21:32:32 artifexd: dexX7: Did you visualize the entire wot?

21:32:36 dexX7: no :)

21:33:03 dexX7: only the assbot/#ba users

21:33:12 artifexd: But... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-04-2014#633726

21:33:13 artifexd: Ah

21:33:20 dexX7: sec

21:34:07 dexX7: http://i.imgur.com/xfGIozu.png

21:34:22 rithm: omg gold titans

21:34:31 rithm: incoming supposedly

21:34:32 dexX7: bounce posted a list of all users who may be voiced here

21:34:34 rithm: much excite

21:35:27 dexX7: the tool used was https://gephi.org/ which allows to import simple csvs but it's really slow for large datasets (or i simply don't know how to use it properly which is not unlikely :)

21:36:10 artifexd: That's hot.

21:44:15 kakobrekla: rithm, yeah, although i fixed the parsing side, its not gonna work because it would break the simplicity of the design, so nick around if you wanna dick around

21:45:21 *: rithm dagger to the heart

21:48:29 fluffypony: dexX7: very cool

21:50:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4232 @ 0.00098871 = 4.1842 BTC [+]

21:52:00 bounce: probably should re-run that listing thing; the math was a bit borked.

21:57:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 650 @ 0.14 = 91 BTC

22:00:13 bounce: oh foo, need to re-do the via thing. hm.

22:01:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098871 = 10.2826 BTC [+]

22:04:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC

22:05:29 dignork: dexX7: try this one instead of Gephi: http://tulip.labri.fr/TulipDrupal/ , on my graphs Gephi just crashed, but this one survived

22:06:20 dexX7: ah ty

22:07:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 11 @ 0.00994845 = 0.1094 BTC [-] {2}

22:15:30 dexX7: does anyone know since when blockchain.info is offline?

22:15:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10347 @ 0.00098849 = 10.2279 BTC [-] {2}

22:16:00 dexX7: ah nvm. i found the blogpost

22:20:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098373 = 12.7885 BTC [-] {3}

22:22:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 600 @ 0.14 = 84 BTC

22:26:09 jurov: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2014/apr/21/palcohol-powder-alcohol-vodka-rum-cocktail-snorting?CMP=fb_gu

22:26:09 ozbot: Palcohol: the powderised alcohol that turns water into rum | Life and style | The Guardian

22:26:19 jurov: sth for BingoBoingo

22:28:33 jurov: i have seen our future. soylent and palcohol.

22:28:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11753 @ 0.00098483 = 11.5747 BTC [+]

22:30:11 bounce: how does that work, powdering a liquid?

22:31:14 bounce: ``If you have $100 million or more to invest, we'll be happy to talk to you. :) Otherwise we are not taking on investors.'' -- totally legit

22:36:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 50 @ 0.00750001 = 0.375 BTC [+] {2}

22:36:09 mircea_popescu: bounce da fuck is that ?

22:36:56 jurov: either it's powderware or they figured out a compound that produces ethanol in contact with water

22:38:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06611965 = 0.1984 BTC [+] {2}

22:38:14 jurov: !up benkay`

22:38:14 assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.

22:38:26 benkay`: thanks jurov

22:39:01 benkay`: bounce, jurov: it's a crystalline thing that absorbs alcohol.

22:39:17 benkay`: and then (i think) dissolves in water.

22:40:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00098321 = 29.8404 BTC [-] {3}

22:40:57 jurov: why ChanServ did it?

22:40:58 jurov: !up benkay`

22:40:58 assbot: Voice for benkay` extended to 30 minutes.

22:41:46 benkay: figured it out

22:43:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.480234 = 2.4012 BTC [-] {4}

22:45:25 thestringpuller: ;;later tell mod6 yo mod6 mon, you dead?

22:45:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:45:41 dexX7: asicminer: "What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that? -> This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G." soo.. that's 8.5 - 67 petahash x_x

22:46:23 dexX7: source https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg6329377#msg6329377

22:49:12 asciilifeform: loltronicly - just got home to the Lande of teh Phree (tm)

22:49:39 asciilifeform: spend almost as long arse-sniffed by inspector dogs, standing in line, as on airplane

22:50:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48001 BTC [-]

22:50:46 mrstickball: 107 PH.... nice

22:51:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48000066 = 1.44 BTC [-] {2}

22:52:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 470 @ 0.00448406 = 2.1075 BTC [-] {12}

22:54:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00098994 = 23.1646 BTC [+] {2}

22:55:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00099131 = 12.1931 BTC [+]

22:55:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04010312 = 0.1203 BTC [+]

22:55:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06611999 = 0.1322 BTC [+]

23:00:02 thestringpuller: yo can we trade ATC in here?

23:00:09 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you live in the states?

23:00:59 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: sadly, yes. i was brought there as a boy and haven't accumulated fuel for orbital escape velocity as of this moment.

23:02:27 thestringpuller: you know that's what I spend most of my time doing in kerbal space program

23:02:33 thestringpuller: i just shoot fuel into orbit

23:02:46 thestringpuller: like 90% of my time is spent doing that

23:02:52 thestringpuller: fucking gravity man

23:03:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00099227 = 1.29 BTC [+]

23:04:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8524 @ 0.00099227 = 8.4581 BTC [+]

23:10:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 12 hours ?!

23:10:23 asciilifeform: aye

23:10:33 mircea_popescu: what ?!

23:10:41 asciilifeform: some of it, to be fair, spend puttering around in munchen

23:10:51 mircea_popescu: nuts.

23:12:51 diametric: Fancy

23:13:21 asciilifeform: takes almost as long to get out of washington's airport as to do a great circle loop across atlantic.

23:13:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18510 @ 0.00099173 = 18.3569 BTC [-] {2}

23:16:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 49 @ 0.00475992 = 0.2332 BTC [+]

23:17:54 dexX7: did you do anything "suspicious" or is this the regular waiting time?

23:18:47 davout: ;;rate asciilifeform 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL

23:18:48 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.

23:19:05 davout: ;;rate mike_c 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL

23:19:06 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mike_c has been recorded.

23:19:20 davout: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL

23:19:21 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.

23:20:23 davout: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR

23:20:24 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 1.

23:21:17 davout: ;;rate kakobrekla 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x

23:21:18 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.

23:22:42 davout: dexX7: i'm kind of surprised asciilifeform got through the customs at all with all the gear he was carrying :D

23:23:00 thestringpuller: lol rate away

23:23:21 dexX7: sounds like a nice party you guys had

23:23:27 davout: gribble will tell you if you overwrite a previous rating, right?

23:23:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5488 @ 0.000986 = 5.4112 BTC [-]

23:24:01 davout: dexX7: it was very interesting indeed

23:24:20 diametric: I've been promised to hear some good stories about it tomorrow

23:24:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.49917942 = 2.4959 BTC [+] {3}

23:25:04 thestringpuller: davout: if you met them IRL wouldn't you give them at least a 5

23:25:08 davout: diametric: pictures speak a thousand words : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-04-2014#633655

23:25:25 diametric: davout: incredible

23:26:16 davout: thestringpuller: you reckon?

23:26:25 thestringpuller: 5 was arbritrary

23:26:27 thestringpuller: lets say 2

23:26:27 thestringpuller: or 3

23:26:36 thestringpuller: being conservative and shit

23:26:39 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/an-hero-is-he/#comment-99191

23:26:40 ozbot: An hero is he… pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

23:26:49 mircea_popescu: nao im almost as good as stan, i have my own derp.

23:26:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 144 @ 0.00430214 = 0.6195 BTC [-] {8}

23:26:56 mircea_popescu: my 500th, but anyway.

23:27:15 diametric: That picture of Stan by the o-scope is amazing

23:27:15 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

23:27:20 davout: mircea_popescu: mazeltov

23:27:48 davout: i took a few pictures, mircea_popescu if you want to compile them lemme me know

23:36:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 498 @ 0.00392797 = 1.9561 BTC [-] {18}

23:37:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 394 @ 0.0032169 = 1.2675 BTC [-] {20}

23:39:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 54 @ 0.004201 = 0.2269 BTC [+]

23:39:56 mircea_popescu: davout jus' publish em

23:40:05 mircea_popescu: diametric pretty cool huh.

23:51:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48131543 BTC [-]

23:51:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 74 @ 0.00423376 = 0.3133 BTC [+] {4}

23:52:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00424997 = 0.1317 BTC [+] {3}

23:56:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4811317 BTC [-]

23:56:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 92 @ 0.00424996 = 0.391 BTC [+] {2}