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Transcript for 21-05-2015, 1479 lines:

00:01:20 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: tbh, someone has to explain this "subkeys" retardation to me sometime. fucking pseudohierarchy devoid of meaning. << Within your big GPG keyblock you can have multiple keys, say a 4096 RSA for signing and another 4096 to encrypt to. Beyond that you can keep stuffing moar keys in there just because...

00:05:17 danielpbarron: ;;isup 8ch.net

00:05:21 gribble: 8ch.net is down

00:05:37 danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/601176574713569280 >> Load balancer crashed. I asked datacenter for assistance with it. It apparently overheated, fan might be broken. More updates to come.

00:05:50 danielpbarron: b-a crashed 8chan!

00:06:48 trinque: lol!

00:06:59 trinque: BingoBoingo: https://wiki.debian.org/Subkeys << clear as mud

00:08:01 trinque: and aside that, may the words should, associated, and all other "ignore the gap" terms be put to the spike

00:09:53 trinque: do I understand correctly that you use a "signing key" to sign your various subkeys, thus associating them with one identity?

00:10:23 BingoBoingo: trinque: Ideally, but...

00:25:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121757 @ 0.00026256 = 31.9685 BTC [-] {2}

01:27:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49295 @ 0.00026832 = 13.2268 BTC [+]

01:34:31 bad_duck: Hi, maybe someone could help me here..? ( http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36p1i8/looking_for_some_data_about_time_between_blocks/ ) tl;dr -> I'm looking for some data about time between blocks (cannot rely on timestamps in blocks), if someone has some logs / know where to find this? thx!

01:40:25 funkenstein_: bad_duck, if you can't rely on the timestamps on the blocks what timestamps can you rely on?

01:42:13 danielpbarron: data signed by WoT members

01:42:43 funkenstein_: hehe good point

01:43:04 danielpbarron: does debug.log record the date from the block? or the time on my computer when the block was relayed?

01:43:51 bad_duck: danielpbarron | data signed by WoT members <-- I hope to find a "relyable" person, but yes I'll have to trust him

01:44:20 bad_duck: danielpbarron: yes, I have this info in my debug.log but my node is only running for 1-2 months...

01:44:44 danielpbarron: remember to copy it into a different location

01:48:18 bad_duck: danielpbarron: anyway I want some more data so I'm looking for someone who is listening the network for a long time / has logs

01:48:43 danielpbarron: i don't think debug.log would give you the info you want

01:50:45 bad_duck: danielpbarron: dependd if the node is running for a long time, it has it after the initial sync (and some missing / wrong poing after downtime when resync / getting last blocks)

01:51:43 danielpbarron: my log doesn't have this UpdateTip thing

01:52:03 bad_duck: hmm, mine has, things like that :

01:52:06 bad_duck: 2015-05-21 01:28:34 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357347 log2_work=82.81497 tx=69326602 date=2015-05-21 01:28:05

01:52:08 bad_duck: 2015-05-21 01:30:13 UpdateTip: new best=00000.... height=357348 log2_work=82.815005 tx=69326669 date=2015-05-21 01:27:51

01:52:13 danielpbarron: also, you can do just grep UpdateTip .bitcoin/debug.log

01:52:26 bad_duck: for the last 2 blocks, on the left my timestamp, on the right the timestamp in block

01:54:25 bad_duck: but the node need to be connected / synched to get the "right" timestamp, during initial sync / update after downtime the timestamp on the left would likely be wrong

01:54:50 danielpbarron: mine just has the date in the block (version 0.7.2 and 0.5.3.x)

01:55:52 bad_duck: bitcoind? that's some old versions!

01:56:24 danielpbarron: http://thebitcoin.foundation/

01:59:15 bad_duck: ok, I see

02:06:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00026739 = 6.3505 BTC [-]

02:10:58 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140965 looked into it,unlike others the modem actually does not have access to memory or storage, communicates to cpu via uart

02:10:58 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 21:58:54; ascii_field: what of the baseband ?

02:14:59 jurov: http://blog.sec-consult.com/2015/05/kcodes-netusb-how-small-taiwanese.html provided it doesn't do stuff like this...

02:21:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 201608 @ 0.00025879 = 52.1741 BTC [-] {4}

02:22:08 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140385 < free herring is nice, but plenty of other places have free herring/oil/usg favors

02:22:08 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 14:30:35; mircea_popescu: for as long as the free herring still lasts, they can run around derping about how they meditatively comprehensified the deep secrets of the universe.

02:22:38 decimation: why don't we have someone here from egypt derping about arab freedom

02:24:27 decimation: !up AdrianoOliveira

02:24:34 decimation: !up shesek

02:24:43 jurov: decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system

02:24:51 AdrianoOliveira: thanks decimation

02:25:15 decimation: AdrianoOliveira: what brings you here

02:26:27 AdrianoOliveira: i was a regular "listener" here... but I am absent for the last couple months

02:27:13 AdrianoOliveira: basically I first came here while studying the pricing of bitcoin options

02:27:41 decimation: where does anyone trade bitcoin options?

02:28:33 jurov: !up nubbins`

02:29:08 decimation: jurov: lol good point - except I thought it was mostly turks

02:29:13 AdrianoOliveira: that's the problem... there is not negotiation at all.

02:29:47 jurov: heh do tell

02:29:48 AdrianoOliveira: I started pricing a model for them for the brazilian market (basically an option which would cover the risks of dolar and bitcoin)

02:30:08 AdrianoOliveira: but I didn't go beyond the model/backtest

02:30:13 decimation: jurov: note that ms. socialism failed to acknowledge that part

02:31:05 jurov: decimation no she'd see it a confirmation "yes they know it's good, too"

02:31:35 decimation: heh yeah. is slovenia full of ethnics too?

02:31:58 jurov: AdrianoOliveira: I recently asked local atm owner about selling some, he quoted me 200eur/btc

02:32:11 jurov: and i was like..wtf he gets bitcoins at such price?

02:32:23 jurov: there are too much we don't know

02:33:05 decimation: jurov: I suspect much btc trading happens over the counter

02:35:46 jurov: yeah, i suppose it's better to sell 10% lower under the counter and avoid taxes

02:36:15 jurov: and dunno about slovenia, ask kako

02:36:17 AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges

02:36:30 AdrianoOliveira: and I am not one of the big players here

02:37:30 AdrianoOliveira: jurov: besides the taxes, if they try to sell/buy larger quantities they will move the market faster againt them

02:37:31 decimation: jurov: right you are slovak right?

02:37:48 decimation: AdrianoOliveira: 280 seems pretty low

02:38:01 jurov: yes, slovak :) and no ethnies here, only a few in capital

02:38:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103200 @ 0.00026356 = 27.1994 BTC [+]

02:38:32 decimation: jurov: do many people speak german there?

02:39:11 AdrianoOliveira: decimation: it is indeed. most brazilians avoid the exchanges for several reasons... also people lost interest since the $1000/btc

02:39:12 jurov: dunno, germans/aunstrians prefer english

02:39:34 decimation: AdrianoOliveira: they only want to trade it if it is 'rich'?

02:39:56 jurov: decimation: they want to HODL

02:40:11 decimation: ;;ud HODL

02:40:12 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hodl | hodl isn't defined. ... Ho Dip · hodizzle · hodjo · hodl · Hodlbups · Hodle · hodlickle · Hodling · HODMAN · Hodnet · Hodo · ho dog · ho dog cool · Ho Doh Doh Doh ...

02:40:15 jurov: obv that won't work if it's going down

02:40:16 AdrianoOliveira: decimation: lol... it seems they avoid buying it if it is cheap... it is better to buy high and sell low, hehe

02:41:00 decimation: I donno, it seems to me that as long as any money is going into bitcoin, the 'price' relative to fiat is going to increas

02:41:29 decimation: so if that's the case, bitcoin is 'on sale'

02:42:25 decimation: AdrianoOliveira: I've heard that during the hyperinflation in brazil, most people held gold in bank deposit boxes

02:43:24 jurov: decimation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375643.0;all

02:44:24 AdrianoOliveira: decimation: I was just a kid at that time so I can't confirm... but I remember for instance that people run into the supermarket on the same day they received they paycheck to buy groceries because prices used to double overnight

02:44:24 decimation: jurov: heh

02:44:28 decimation: AdrianoOliveira: right so people ought to remember that it's a good idea to HODL a strong currency

02:46:26 AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the older ones that's true... people under 30 actually don't remember/didn't experience that

02:47:05 AdrianoOliveira: these just want to buy something that is skyrocketing to sell in a couple days for a profit

02:47:16 AdrianoOliveira: as it is not the case anymore, they are loosing interest on bitcoin

02:47:53 *: trinque recalls the rabid euphoria on /r/bitcoinmarkets

02:48:03 decimation: ;;ticker

02:48:04 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.26, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11363.15894438, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None

02:48:29 decimation: I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'

02:48:39 decimation: now it's stable, and they want it to go to the moon

02:49:27 jurov: http://fortune.com/2015/05/20/reddit-free-speech-ellen-pao/ "misogynist and racist “subreddits” popping up frequently"

02:50:27 jurov: ofc

02:50:27 decimation: adriano: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103354 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103356

02:50:27 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 09:25:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103247 << imo brazil is headed straight for mexico fail mode.

02:50:27 assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 09:25:23; mircea_popescu: this is not recoverable.

02:50:27 trinque: jurov: they've got some new SJW policy about being a "safe place"

02:51:23 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market buttfinex

02:51:25 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 234.24, Best ask: 234.36, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 234.24, 24 hour volume: 11326.24280465, 24 hour low: 231.72, 24 hour high: 235.24, 24 hour vwap: None

02:52:24 BingoBoingo: ^ asking price goes up when you call the ticker and address your chosen market with its "butt" name

02:52:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211120 @ 0.00025785 = 54.4373 BTC [-] {2}

02:52:41 AdrianoOliveira: decimation: our economy is a mess at the moment... and I don't think things will be back on track soon.

03:03:53 funkenstein_: decimation: I stumbled across you in an odd place

03:03:56 funkenstein_: "Major thirds move quickly around the 53-note circle of fifths, because of the decimation chosen to give preference to the fifth as representing the smallest change."

03:06:18 *: BingoBoingo prefers circle of circle of minor fifths, prefers the devil's note

03:08:37 BingoBoingo: 7th's major or minor also cool unless the rest of the chord is being filled in

03:11:01 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/597631037569634304/p81c93Ed.jpg << dude dpb actually has a better beard than me

03:12:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: proposed article: any value above 3 which satisfies the traditional recipe (where n = pq, public e is less than n-1, and relatively prime to p-1 and q-1) will work.

03:12:01 decimation: funkenstein_: hehe wtf

03:12:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i meanwhile added some more notes!

03:12:01 mircea_popescu: (just published it)

03:12:01 mircea_popescu: that is one of them

03:12:01 asciilifeform: neato.

03:12:16 decimation: funkenstein_: I was unaware of the musical use of the term

03:12:37 mircea_popescu: i always thought that's the reference o.O

03:12:51 mircea_popescu: how DID you come up with the nick then ? you terrorist you.

03:12:52 decimation: no it's a reference to signal processing

03:12:56 mircea_popescu: o

03:13:01 mircea_popescu: these two are related.

03:13:07 decimation: yeah kinda

03:13:25 decimation: 'drop N of K items'

03:13:37 asciilifeform: i always assumed it was the roman decimation, l0l

03:13:41 decimation: or kill a tenth of your legion

03:13:45 decimation: for failing

03:13:55 asciilifeform: for, properly speaking, being unlucky

03:13:57 decimation: it's a convenient double meaning

03:14:01 asciilifeform: (how do you make a legion luckier?)

03:14:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106850 @ 0.00025603 = 27.3568 BTC [-]

03:14:34 decimation: fight derpy natives instead of battle hardened germans?

03:15:08 asciilifeform: 'you go to war with the enemy you have, not the enemy you wish you had' (TM) (R)

03:15:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141011 << shit i had noticed the traffic was drooping

03:15:30 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 00:05:37; danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/601176574713569280 >> Load balancer crashed. I asked datacenter for assistance with it. It apparently overheated, fan might be broken. More updates to come.

03:15:40 mircea_popescu: copypaste our condolences!

03:16:27 decimation: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2339&pr=0 < "Neanderthals who survived into their thirties looked like they had been pulled out of a Humvee that was hit by an IED. One fellow was missing an eye, an arm, a thumb and a foot! These guys suffered from no known diseases. However, their main food [according to chemical analysis of their bones] was the auroch?basically a rodeo bull?which they had to kill be wrestling with it, stabb

03:17:27 copypaste: no problem :)

03:17:27 mircea_popescu: decimation fwiw, he's entirely nuts on that score.

03:17:27 mircea_popescu: yes neanderthals hunted. this was accomplished principally by outrunning smallish game. a sort of a dodo bird, some early antelope etc.

03:17:41 decimation: you don't think they killed a giant auroch by hand

03:17:53 trinque: "endurance hunting" was the thing right?

03:17:57 mircea_popescu: they surely did occasionally. neanderthals are kinda like monkeys.

03:18:12 mircea_popescu: but it was not, i would guess, above 10% of energetic input. prolly safe to say 1% or less.

03:18:29 decimation: well, if the practice continued into roman times, I wouldn't want to face some dude who wrested an auroch and won

03:19:55 mircea_popescu: decimation the derpy european bear (small, brown guy, about 4 foot tall standing) is to this day (or rather, the 1800s) an informal "absolute top of young male physical ability"

03:20:07 mircea_popescu: ie, 1 kid in 100 COULD wrestle one.

03:20:23 mircea_popescu: but the bear is playful. nobody is fucking wrestling a bull solo.

03:20:29 mircea_popescu: and especially not 50k eyars ago auroch.

03:20:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125641 @ 0.00026789 = 33.658 BTC [+] {4}

03:21:08 decimation: yeah it does seem rather dubious

03:21:20 mircea_popescu: it was a group effort, iof/when it happened, and oportunistic

03:21:22 decimation: also why not just spear/trap/arrow or whatever

03:21:23 mircea_popescu: (wounded animal, etc)

03:21:30 mircea_popescu: because they didn't have them or know how to use them.

03:21:49 mircea_popescu: understand : people of year 52015 will say "humans had internet" sure, they did. so ?

03:22:00 mircea_popescu: 99% of population uses internet exploder.

03:22:36 mircea_popescu: just because there's proof sylex spears were used by ns does not mean a superarmy of drilled regiments of standard-uniformed neanderthals.

03:22:59 decimation: that's a good point, but it seems that a deadfall is pretty obvious

03:23:08 decimation: or a pit with pointy sticks

03:23:55 mircea_popescu: you think animals are stupid ?

03:23:59 mircea_popescu: go hunt sometime.

03:24:29 mircea_popescu: you think a pit large enough to host a bull is trivial ? go fucking dig out a regulation latrine with a shard of dinner plate!

03:24:41 mircea_popescu: (or calculate the caloric value of the bull and the caloric expenditure of the dig)

03:25:29 decimation: ^ that's a good point

03:25:39 decimation: although an auroch would feed a tribe for awhile

03:26:00 asciilifeform: same while as feeds 1

03:26:07 mircea_popescu: no. rich meat is 3-4 calories / gram. a one ton bull made of no bones is worth 3-4Mcal tops.

03:26:16 asciilifeform: (meat sans preservation, 'parallelizes' but not 'serializes')

03:26:16 scoopbot_revived: The issue of exponents in RSA http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-issue-of-exponents-in-rsa/

03:27:18 mircea_popescu: yeah, asciilifeform has a point. eat it that day or lose it

03:27:28 mircea_popescu: (not to derpy bacteria. to jackals. they band together.)

03:29:02 decimation: yeah but pit can be reused

03:29:11 mircea_popescu: trinque yes, that's the word. and we know it is the fact of the matter from say the kidneys.

03:29:26 mircea_popescu: decimation again, animals are not stupid. it will identify your trap even when fresh. let alone when it stinks of death.

03:29:28 mircea_popescu: !up hondapiston

03:29:40 hondapiston: Hello :D

03:29:49 mircea_popescu: hi. who're you ?

03:30:00 *: asciilifeform mutters 'meowmix'

03:30:00 hondapiston: Michelle

03:30:30 decimation: are you a socialist?

03:30:42 hondapiston: No

03:30:52 decimation: \me imagines another 1000 log-lines

03:30:55 mircea_popescu: aite.

03:31:02 hondapiston: Are you?

03:31:09 decimation: nope

03:31:19 mircea_popescu: decimation she wasn't a socialist, she was a northernsystemalist. stop arguing about your imaginary political systems that don't exist!

03:31:24 hondapiston: Why not

03:31:24 decimation: heh

03:32:02 hondapiston: Good night

03:32:21 mircea_popescu: ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

03:32:41 hondapiston: What

03:32:55 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140388 < note that her 'Nordic system' is simply derpy marxism that was recycled through the us as 'progressivism' and then indoctrinated by harvard circa 1945

03:32:55 assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 14:32:14; mircea_popescu: instead of parading them naked through the streets with a "i was a fucktard and am now sorry" thing around their neck, they let them sit around for twenty years coming up with reasons as to how their idiocy "wasn't really all that bad".

03:33:07 hondapiston: !s meowmix

03:33:08 assbot: 42 results for 'meowmix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=meowmix

03:33:14 mircea_popescu: decimation nah, it's local brew.

03:33:18 hondapiston: I am meowmix

03:33:20 decimation: lol asciilifeform has it

03:33:33 asciilifeform: have i ever failed at meowmix, l0l

03:33:36 hondapiston: Quiet me

03:33:38 trinque: is "meowmix" #b-a's "anon" ?

03:33:40 mircea_popescu: basically, the east germans came up with a rationalization of their soviet time. "we really were right. excesses were made but..."

03:33:41 hondapiston: Yay

03:33:49 mircea_popescu: trinque just some guy, i dunno.

03:33:49 decimation: hondapiston: no you tell me why you lurk

03:33:50 asciilifeform: meowmix is, i think, a script.

03:33:57 mircea_popescu: nowai.

03:34:05 hondapiston: I use 4g on my nexus 6

03:34:05 asciilifeform: meowmix: if you get in wot, i will tentatively rate you.

03:34:07 decimation: it does reek of 'eliza'

03:34:14 hondapiston: Nexus 6 is the best phone

03:34:16 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> meowmix is, i think, a script. << More likely meat that fails turing test

03:34:29 mircea_popescu: meaf.

03:34:35 decimation: meowmix: is that why you are using an ipv6 address?

03:34:36 mircea_popescu: replacing the T for passing turing with the F for failing it.

03:34:43 hondapiston: I guess

03:34:46 asciilifeform: meowmix: if you can convincingly prove femality, a whole regiment will rate you, l0l

03:34:53 mircea_popescu: ^ from experience

03:35:00 hondapiston: Feminist's are stupid

03:35:25 decimation: so are people who inappropriately use apostrophes

03:35:26 mircea_popescu: i dunno man... they made me a sammich...

03:35:45 hondapiston: I hate feminists but most of all i hate homosexuals

03:35:50 decimation: meowmix, something draws you to this channel

03:35:57 mircea_popescu: how about the crab people ?

03:36:10 trinque: talk like crab! act like peo-ple!

03:36:10 hondapiston: Fuck homosexuals

03:36:15 asciilifeform: i would love to know what meowmix is, and who made it.

03:36:18 trinque: *walk, shit

03:36:19 mircea_popescu: doesn't that mean you LOVE them ?

03:36:23 asciilifeform: meowmix: droid, state your purpose.

03:36:25 hondapiston: Peace out i work at a guess statoon

03:36:34 hondapiston: Gas

03:36:41 asciilifeform: eh.

03:36:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe it's vexual.

03:36:52 asciilifeform: the antipodal vexual.

03:37:06 decimation: at least vexual kinda makes sense sometimes

03:37:08 mircea_popescu: mexual, vexual's evil twin

03:37:19 decimation: and uses more than 10 syllables

03:37:20 mircea_popescu: together, they form

03:37:23 felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."

03:37:23 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a723a3cfbf132739

03:37:23 mircea_popescu: THE COLOR MAUVE

03:37:29 felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."

03:37:29 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/eca1220ff4d0be25

03:37:53 mircea_popescu: felipelalli quotes not rly necessary.

03:38:25 BingoBoingo: meowmix seems to consistently come from near danielpbarron's neck of the woods. Perhaps an ex?

03:38:43 felipelalli: !rate AdrianoOliveira 3 "Known in Brazilian community, and now I'm proud to see he on #b-a."

03:38:43 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/91d4164f91571469

03:39:01 trinque: strange the guy has a compulsion to come here, but mostly emits word salad

03:39:26 mircea_popescu: he prolly goes everywhere

03:39:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141047 << and all of them, WITHOUT EXCEPTION insist they have some "one twu way" idiotic system.

03:39:51 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:22:08; decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140385 < free herring is nice, but plenty of other places have free herring/oil/usg favors

03:40:00 mircea_popescu: from saudi arabia to lybia, israel, pick it.

03:40:27 asciilifeform: trinque: i've entertained the thought that it is one of the ill-fated philippinos going off the reservation

03:40:33 mircea_popescu: it is the nature of human stupidity to ascertain positive outcomes to personal merit and negative outcomes to environmental hostility.

03:40:39 decimation: BingoBoingo: did you use a tool to find his ipv6 address assignment pool?

03:40:52 mircea_popescu: it's always the same iirc.

03:41:09 BingoBoingo: decimation: Nah, I just remember from when his phone carrier still had v4's to give him

03:41:14 BingoBoingo: Or her

03:41:16 trinque: asciilifeform: I'm not aware of it

03:41:19 BingoBoingo: or Xor

03:41:20 decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah that's a good point

03:41:42 decimation: even the us thinks that its political system is responsible for having vast natural resources/destroying the world twice

03:41:56 mircea_popescu: yep

03:41:58 asciilifeform: trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-02-2015#1003223 << them.

03:41:58 assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:04:03; mircea_popescu: it was highlighted by intel about two weeks ago, and we're generally tracing it to philippines "top quality" content farms working for a number of (mostly ct and wash based) pr firms.

03:42:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doesn't seem all that likely but who knows.

03:42:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141052 <<< ahahaha

03:42:43 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:24:43; jurov: decimation: they are already in germany building nordic system

03:43:33 trinque: asciilifeform: huh, astroturfing meatfarms?

03:43:39 trinque: what a shitty life

03:43:52 BingoBoingo: trinque: They are a thing, welcome to glabalization

03:43:59 asciilifeform: trinque: aha. and now imagine if one of the slaves were to get bored and start playing with his console in unsanctioned ways

03:44:04 asciilifeform: drooling all over keyboard

03:44:07 BingoBoingo: All the gab you want at bargain prices

03:44:16 felipelalli: AdrianoOliveira: welcome! First Brazilian I see here.

03:44:22 mircea_popescu: trinque better than callcenter / myfreecams / wow gold baby.

03:44:53 mircea_popescu: felipelalli did you manage to rate him in the end ?

03:44:56 asciilifeform: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9EKh_lIEAE1O8u.jpg << obligatory

03:45:56 trinque: seen that, hilarious

03:45:56 asciilifeform: trinque: yeah it's a #b-a classic

03:45:56 *: mircea_popescu personally knows ex-slavegirl trainee. failed out of slavedom bootcamp, is now working callcenter. what most meat does irl, the world over.

03:46:08 BingoBoingo: !up felipelalli

03:46:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: generally speaking - what does 'failing' mean there ?

03:46:37 asciilifeform: similar to washing out of army ?

03:46:42 mircea_popescu: exactly what you'd expect. not actually being good enough. ayup

03:46:47 felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I didn't know. Thanks for the pro tip.

03:47:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141073 << eh, random people ended up with some dust dunno what to do with it. try amassing 1k, or even 10 btc and see what you have to pay.

03:47:12 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:36:17; AdrianoOliveira: decimation: at least for the Brazilian market I can confirm that... today's volume at local exchanges was about 280 BTC and I got a user offering me 140 out of exchanges

03:51:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141102 << excelent example, if more wer eneeded, that soft consensus aka fecal matter.

03:51:58 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 02:48:29; decimation: I remember the haters all complaining that bitcoin was 'not stable'

03:52:14 mircea_popescu: the idea that "the people" should have a voice is not unlike the notion that cows should design their own barns.

03:52:58 *: mircea_popescu imagines a cow designed barn... walls of hay, roof of salt rock...

03:53:05 asciilifeform: if cows could speak, they might very well tell us that they believe themselves to have invented barns

03:53:13 asciilifeform: and designed the particular example they happen to inhabit.

03:53:22 mircea_popescu: and fucked napoleon's mother.

03:53:35 asciilifeform: ..., etc. aha.

03:54:03 decimation: ^ and designed the nordic system

03:54:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140900 @ 0.00027579 = 38.8588 BTC [+] {2}

03:54:08 trinque: watching the phuctor story unfold as a bystander, it really opens ones eyes to the... call it participatory nature of a totalitarian system

03:54:50 mircea_popescu: aha. quite exactly.

03:55:10 mircea_popescu: the gestapo, is not pointed out enough, consisted of a small office with a few bureaucrats overwhelmed by citizen reports irl,

03:55:15 asciilifeform: anyone recall vaclav havel's grocer ?

03:55:19 trinque: makes total sense.

03:55:20 mircea_popescu: and a HUGE hallucination in those citizens minds.

03:55:21 asciilifeform: precisely same thing

03:55:46 asciilifeform: http://vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML << see section III

03:56:46 trinque: ty

03:57:15 asciilifeform: ' It offers human beings the illusion of an identity, of dignity, and of morality while making it easier for them to part with them.'

03:57:15 mircea_popescu: havel definitely good read on this topic.

03:57:40 mircea_popescu: intelligent, educated fellow with direct access to the thing and a deep interest in documenting it. one rarely gets better.

03:57:55 *: asciilifeform recommends whole thing

03:58:16 mircea_popescu: and imo better than mr s, on account of no particular literary ambitions

03:58:36 trinque: "He does it because these things must be done if one is to get along in life." << this must be entirely automatic

03:58:50 trinque: the obedience mechanism, whatever that is

03:58:53 asciilifeform: trinque: see also orwell's 'duckspeak'

03:59:12 mircea_popescu: !s itself at the center

03:59:13 assbot: 0 results for 'itself at the center' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=itself+at+the+center

03:59:19 mircea_popescu: eh no wai.

03:59:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998181

03:59:39 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,

03:59:41 mircea_popescu: there we go

04:00:27 decimation: asciilifeform: is this havel guy kinda like a czech Solzhenitsyn?

04:01:32 mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why idiot rawls and his "veil of ignorance" is so important for the "nordic system" ie, socialism re-emergent. it's not the direct pseudo-ethics it derps around with that's the core there. it's the proposition, unwarranted and offensive, that people have no more substance than replaceable parts, and that their connections in the graph do not exist.

04:01:41 mircea_popescu: THIS is what that bullshit is selling, under a guise.

04:01:56 asciilifeform: archaeologists tell us about, e.g., ancient minoan 'palace economies' where -everybody- had to go to the central cloth dispensary to get woven cloth where gurlz toiled in the weaving hall. but those who sat in the palaces may have pictured themselves at the 'stellar apex' but had nothing on modern idiotron. minoans did not, afaik, have to go to the palace to get fucked.

04:02:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform babylonians did, really.

04:02:20 mircea_popescu: hence all the prostitution cults.

04:02:28 trinque: only part I don't know about is whether this is a sort of inauthentic behavior on the part of the shopkeeper

04:02:41 trinque: seems obedience is a fine thing if the directions given to it are any good

04:03:29 mircea_popescu: trinque the socialist state is necessarily intellectually vacuous

04:03:34 mircea_popescu: for this reason it can never be any good

04:03:38 asciilifeform: trinque: not unlike the difference between car speeding along on a clean road, and engine on fire. in both cases, petrol combusts

04:03:45 mircea_popescu: (and it's necessarily vacuous for the reason discussed in "the problem of ideal systems")

04:03:51 decimation: yeah but as trinque pointed out earlier, the socialist state has the advantage of 'cheap coordination'

04:04:02 mircea_popescu: at the cost of necessary futility, yes.

04:04:03 decimation: it's really easy to sell the idea that the state will save you

04:04:22 mircea_popescu: "you can either buy this thing which works, or this thing which is free." "but does it work ?" "no."

04:04:30 mircea_popescu: the choice is then settled by... whether you can afford the first.

04:04:44 mircea_popescu: because if you can't, you ain't buying it. and if you ain't buying it, might as well take the 2nd.

04:05:03 decimation: ^ which is why fiat currency is so wrapped up in the socialist megastate

04:05:48 decimation: because it jams the markets with crazy nonsense

04:06:07 asciilifeform: i used to wonder whether the 'rawlsian ignorance' folks might -actually- believe in reincarnation. like hindu

04:06:22 asciilifeform: then realized that hindu, who believes in it, behaves very differently from 'rawlsians'

04:06:24 BingoBoingo: Facebook commenters, worse than tumblrinas

04:06:27 trinque: my thought was that the average person has always been this semi-mindless imitator, quite human to try to tend towards the middle, whatever that may be

04:06:34 trinque: a sort of swarming behavior

04:06:47 trinque: and that this historically would've been swarming around a command structure

04:06:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would say they believe in... descuamation.

04:07:11 mircea_popescu: specifically, actual life is too much of a burden, so they wish to be... well killed, basically.

04:07:24 asciilifeform: iirc orwell had one of these

04:07:34 asciilifeform: 'short of death, the ultimate relinquishment of responsibility'

04:07:39 mircea_popescu: aha

04:08:00 mircea_popescu: see, the hindu psychological driver is coping with harsh environment. so that models the person one way.

04:08:03 asciilifeform: but specifically the 'you, yes you, -could- be a leprous beggar!' thing

04:08:10 asciilifeform: it only makes sense in a hindu-style cosmography

04:08:22 mircea_popescu: the western rapemeats' driver is on the contrary : look how much i should have achieved and how utterly i have failed at all of it.

04:08:35 mircea_popescu: depression incumbent then is resolved as a "yes but my REAL SELF has not come yet"

04:08:57 mircea_popescu: at which point the fantasy of magical body exchanges is, like the armchair generalship of you know, running mpex from the forum, a very natural escape.

04:08:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47946 @ 0.00028011 = 13.4302 BTC [+]

04:09:28 asciilifeform: the fantasy, like magnet, has opposite pole of 'body exchange hell' as well as heaven

04:09:48 asciilifeform: where believer is invited to picture himself as blind from birth street urchin etc

04:09:55 mircea_popescu: but you see, the idea being, that if they had no body AT ALL... they wouldn't have failed.

04:10:05 trinque: asciilifeform: this seems to be the victim culture thing

04:10:15 mircea_popescu: next best thing to no body at all being, a vague body which "might have been"

04:10:45 asciilifeform: the adventures of the human wavefunction, aha

04:10:45 trinque: I had a few lols today investigating the #diecisscum and #killallwhitemen things today

04:10:52 trinque: s/today$//

04:10:56 decimation: nah, I think the western statism is simple Christianity without god - 'god is dead, it's up to us to build heaven on earth'

04:11:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, i suspect a large number of the rapemeat, aka sjws, actually masturbate, at least mentally, to the idea of them being blind from birth street urchin sexually abused on a constant basis.

04:11:17 mircea_popescu: because IN THAT CONTEXT, they would be heroes

04:11:19 trinque: decimation: yup, this HR department morality thing is *so* protestant

04:11:20 mircea_popescu: worthy of their own pity.

04:12:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: after christianity (and possibly mithraism before it) pushed this notion as far as the pedal would go, for 2k yrs, big surprise ?

04:12:13 mircea_popescu: no surprise at all

04:12:22 mircea_popescu: i think it's necessary. hegelhistory.

04:12:48 asciilifeform: sorta like forest fire is necessary.

04:12:52 mircea_popescu: quite.

04:13:00 mircea_popescu: forest fire is a necessary outcome of drought.

04:13:18 mircea_popescu: in a land which had biomass growth pedal to the floor.

04:13:39 decimation: in the western us, the most dangerous forest fires happen after lots of rain

04:13:51 trinque: and entirely absent any social structure beyond dysfunctional families

04:13:55 decimation: the verdant landscape suddenly dries and goes poof

04:13:57 mircea_popescu: decimation how does that work ?

04:14:09 mircea_popescu: oh, like a week after ?

04:14:14 decimation: well, dry spells immediately following wet spells

04:14:17 decimation: more like the next season

04:14:18 mircea_popescu: yeah.

04:15:18 BingoBoingo: <trinque> I had a few lols today investigating the #diecisscum and #killallwhitemen things today << I dunno why trans would label their opposition cis- because when talking isomers... transgeometric isomers tend to be poisonous, or at least less supporting of continued life than cis isomers.

04:15:37 mircea_popescu: irony is wasted on the stupid.

04:17:20 BingoBoingo: I kinda figure normal ordinary responsible people should refocus the conversation on dext vs. levo rotary. dext (normal) rotary amphetamine feels good man. levo just induces stress reactions and nihilism.

04:18:21 BingoBoingo: Lafonde guy is pretty good for the current events http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2409&pr=0

04:19:21 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo personally, i find the aggitation of marginal women which i'd never fuck or empower anyway about how things should be very entertaining.

04:19:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sjws, actually masturbate, at least mentally, to the idea of them being blind from birth street urchin... pet sayeth - summarized: 'more complicated than this. by and large, they diagnose themselves with imagined disabilities and enjoy wearing magic disability mantle.'

04:19:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ayup.

04:19:21 mircea_popescu: manifestation, imo.

04:19:31 mircea_popescu: why's that girl not in here anyway ? not like ben_vulpes' gonna steal her away with his magic tango skillz...

04:19:48 decimation: I guess she blew her wad on 2000 lines or whatever

04:19:53 asciilifeform: can't be arsed.

04:19:54 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But the people pushing the trans/cis thing largely aren't women. They are some large women and some men who have modified their sex to a null state.

04:20:31 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo whether they're women or not is not up to them. gender is something allocated to one. by, in this case, me.

04:20:36 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> can't be arsed. << I can see why you get along.

04:20:43 asciilifeform: aha.

04:20:55 asciilifeform: iirc kakobrekla has one of these also.

04:21:00 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo whether they're women or not is not up to them. gender is something allocated to one. by, in this case, me. << I see this.

04:21:27 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: From what I understand kakobrekla and lampelina sleep in shifts.

04:21:29 asciilifeform: gender is something allocated to one << sure. declare a lump of earth 'fork'

04:21:38 asciilifeform: has forkness assigned.

04:21:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what else do you suppose ru prison pederasty is if not allocated womanhood

04:22:02 asciilifeform: aha.

04:22:13 *: trinque wonders if there's such a thing as reproductive suicide, biologically speaking

04:22:20 decimation: 'time for yer turn in the barrel'

04:22:25 BingoBoingo: trinque: Menopause?

04:22:31 trinque: someone's too full of plastic or what have you, and suddenly they're transfluid-hyperqueer

04:22:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: though, to be fair, it is 'mined' rather than synthesized ab initio. mined by selecting folks with some inclination pre-existing

04:22:53 trinque: the psychology of some of these people just says "couldn't pull the trigger, didn't even have a gun"

04:23:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know the thousand dollar whore joke ?

04:23:52 asciilifeform: hm?

04:23:57 BingoBoingo: lol

04:24:02 mircea_popescu: guy goes into mining town with a thousand dollars in gold.

04:24:11 mircea_popescu: straight to largest brothel. "i want a girl"

04:24:17 mircea_popescu: sure, be twenty, or an ounce.

04:24:18 *: BingoBoingo suspects asciilifeform told this one

04:24:27 mircea_popescu: no. i want a 1000 dollar girl.

04:24:31 mircea_popescu: sorry man...

04:24:48 mircea_popescu: he does this for a while, eventually a less scrupulous owner takes his thousand

04:25:00 mircea_popescu: girl in room "hello baby, where do you want to put it ? my ass ? my ..."

04:25:09 mircea_popescu: "shut up bitch. for a thousand dollars i make my own holes."

04:26:05 BingoBoingo: !s make my own holes

04:26:05 assbot: 1 results for 'make my own holes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=make+my+own+holes

04:26:18 asciilifeform: l0lz

04:26:39 BingoBoingo: Oh twas mp who told it http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-02-2014#501993

04:26:39 assbot: Logged on 13-02-2014 23:14:48; mircea_popescu: "babe, for 10k i make my own holes"

04:27:45 trinque: I have no issue whatsoever with homosexuality... this thing though where what... the actual reproducing members of the species must die?

04:27:56 mircea_popescu: trinque it IS an in joke.

04:27:57 trinque: that's a very particular reckless suicidality

04:28:02 BingoBoingo: http://www.radixjournal.com/blog/2015/5/18/whites-behaving-badly

04:29:03 mircea_popescu: you're taking it literally.

04:29:03 trinque: lol, oh, I am missing nuance?

04:29:03 mircea_popescu: two.

04:29:03 asciilifeform: trinque: are you familiar with j. b. calhoun's 'mouse utopia' ?

04:29:03 asciilifeform: http://www.physicsoflife.pl/dict/calhoun%27s_experiment.html

04:30:03 mircea_popescu: trinque you familiar with the concepts of jews and forced memes ?

04:30:03 trinque: no

04:30:03 mircea_popescu: lurkmoar :D

04:30:03 trinque: asciilifeform: and yes

04:30:03 trinque: "beautiful ones" and so on?

04:30:03 trinque: that's exactly what it seems like, some biological mechanism going off due to stress or who knows what

04:30:03 trinque: !s jews forced memes

04:30:03 assbot: 0 results for 'jews forced memes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jews+forced+memes

04:30:07 trinque: :'(

04:30:11 BingoBoingo: trinque: Homosexuality is a thing. A number of people do it with a strong irreplacable preferance and given the roster that includes turing it isn't a thing to demonize.

04:30:16 asciilifeform: http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.php << moar pics.

04:31:16 asciilifeform: 'Mice found themselves born into a world that was more crowded every day, and there were far more mice than meaningful social roles. With more and more peers to defend against, males found it difficult and stressful to defend their territory, so they abandoned the activity. Normal social discourse within the mouse community broke down, and with it the ability of mice to form social bonds. The failures and dropouts congregated

04:31:16 trinque: BingoBoingo: I'm not demonizing it at all, even waffled sufficiently to indicate this :D

04:31:16 asciilifeform: in large groups in the middle of the enclosure, their listless withdrawal occasionally interrupted by spasms and waves of pointless violence. The victims of these random attacks became attackers. Left on their own in nests subject to invasion, nursing females attacked their own young. Procreation slumped, infant abandonment and mortality soared. Lone females retreated to isolated nesting boxes on penthouse levels. Other males,

04:31:16 asciilifeform: a group Calhoun termed ?the beautiful ones,? never sought sex and never fought?they just ate, slept, and groomed, wrapped in narcissistic introspection. Elsewhere, cannibalism, pansexualism, and violence became endemic. Mouse society had collapsed.'

04:31:16 trinque: but there's a specific blend of queer and self-destructive I've met enough times to know it's a thing

04:31:16 mircea_popescu: trinque the jew part i really can't explain. but a forced meme is what cancerous fags do when they try to create a meme. which is EXACTLY like what idiot kids do when they "create exchange", but exactly. ignorance so ignorant it doesn't grok why it's being ignorant but thinks itself clever.

04:31:16 BingoBoingo: Like anything else in the postmodern era... the fandom that attaches is...

04:31:19 mircea_popescu: now, the "kill men" bla bla is exactly this : a forced jew meme for that particular subculture.

04:31:34 trinque: ah yeah, that makes sense

04:31:41 cazalla: omg channel is full of.. http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lon8fsN34w1qdhrwbo1_500.jpg

04:32:41 mircea_popescu: trinque so your original interpretation is not unlike saying 4chan is antisemitic.

04:32:41 trinque: it's a fair point

04:32:41 mircea_popescu: it'ds not even wrong.

04:32:41 trinque: yours I mean

04:33:16 trinque: cazalla: ahahaha

04:36:44 BingoBoingo: Oh, looks like /btc/ fell of of 8ch

04:37:37 mircea_popescu: onoes

04:37:55 decimation: from my point of view the whole 'gay rights' thing looks to be about bossing around whitey who cowers in learned helplessness

04:39:24 trinque: it does, the in-group signaling thing makes a lot of sense too though, and furthermore that things you can only say in your in-group are the best signals

04:39:30 decimation: that at trying to immanentize the eschaton

04:40:08 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Still there, just not poplar enough

04:40:49 BingoBoingo: Need moar http://www.thujagardens.com/LombardyPoplar.html

04:41:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123059 @ 0.00027471 = 33.8055 BTC [-]

04:42:26 BingoBoingo: But not really Lombary Poplars suck. Grow too fast, insufficient trunk strength, gets blown over on the first strong wind. And if it doesn't blow over dies at 30 anyways because fuck you.

04:42:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131505 @ 0.00027468 = 36.1218 BTC [-] {3}

04:42:55 decimation: yeah poplars are shit wood

04:43:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is an excellent model for the reddit/tumblr/etc failure modes.

04:43:43 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo poplars are the hitchiker whore of trees. cheap, available and ineffectual.

04:43:53 decimation: note that the failure mode with the mice isn't too little information - it's too much

04:44:16 mircea_popescu: " more mice than meaningful social roles. With more and more peers to defend against" << that's the hot core of failure.

04:44:27 asciilifeform: decimation: failure mode - as with most mechanisms under the sun - is from operation outside of envelope.

04:44:58 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno hitchiker whores can make it to 40 and become settled whores unless they roll a Ted Bundy

04:45:44 mircea_popescu: i guess there's that.

04:46:22 BingoBoingo: And poplars too have a purpose. If you are otherwise broke, have rain, and really want firewood for next winter...

04:47:08 decimation: !up AmbitionzAzARida

04:47:11 decimation: !up evian11_____

04:47:14 BingoBoingo: !up evian11_____

04:48:02 BingoBoingo: It's just... really hard to trust a tree that struggles to live twice as long as a dog

04:48:33 decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/nicholas_vincen.html < "The myth, even as early as the 12th century, that the English are freeborn people--it's a load of nonsense; they come from Troy; they are the exiles from ancient Troy defeated by the Greeks: they go off and they found this kingdom of England from which they eventually get a king called Arthur. But they are a freedom-loving people. They live under liberty and freedom. Of

04:49:35 decimation: english 'liberty' as founded in the magna carta is just repeating asperations until they become true

04:50:30 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hard to trust a tree that struggles to live twice as long as a dog << brings up a point re: another tree. in ru, folks traditionally are fascinated with the huge birch forests. but consider, birch is a short-lived 'pioneer species'

04:50:40 asciilifeform: it lives where earth was disrupted, destroyed

04:50:49 asciilifeform: where - typically - pasture was left fallow

04:50:55 asciilifeform: on account of famine, war, plague

04:51:22 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There's a couple of older birch trees near here. Exceptional because... don't look much like the other birches.

04:52:46 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as a boy, i took a 1200km train ride. nothing but birch.

04:53:20 BingoBoingo: My biggest annoyance at this phase of the summer's landscaping gigs is actually hickory. Lives forever, quality wood... but... The squirrels plant it. It lays low for a couple years and then zoom towards the heavens.

04:54:12 BingoBoingo: And because squirrels plant it before cats eat them for winter sustenance, squirrels plant them in the worst places

04:54:14 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: looked rather like this: http://poselok1928.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/112.jpg

04:55:14 asciilifeform: as far as eye can see.

04:55:14 BingoBoingo: That is pretty beautiful. Probably will be for another decade or two

04:57:07 decimation: I'm a sucker for a large stately sycamore tree

04:59:38 BingoBoingo: decimation: sycamore is even choice wood for some applications. Also low on litter and grows big.

05:01:04 decimation: yeah, butcher blocks

05:02:17 BingoBoingo: Also countertops, just fuck it. Granite bleeds radon and marble stains. Just install block and sand, then replace in a decade.

05:02:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10598 @ 0.00028144 = 2.9827 BTC [+]

05:02:57 *: asciilifeform wonders what old-fashioned headsman's chopping blocks were made of

05:03:03 BingoBoingo: Even birch is useful if you want to build a brownwater vessel

05:03:24 decimation: eh, for countertops use quartz

05:03:36 BingoBoingo: But poplar is only useful for filing insurance claims and watching your fuel wood burn too fast.

05:03:50 BingoBoingo: decimation: porous, loses to red wine

05:04:17 asciilifeform: wai wat

05:04:19 asciilifeform: no.

05:04:22 asciilifeform: quartz porous ?!

05:04:26 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I thought they braced behind the chop

05:04:35 asciilifeform: no more porous than your house windows

05:04:49 asciilifeform: or light bulb

05:05:07 BingoBoingo: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2703805/white-quartz-countertops-and-staining

05:06:08 asciilifeform: even glass - stains

05:06:08 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If ideal quartz were marketed for this purpose no staining

05:06:08 asciilifeform: not perfectly smooth, aha. but not porous

05:06:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: braced behind the chop << old-school chopping blocks did not have 'chin rests' but were something like butcher blocks

05:06:33 decimation: I never heard of quartz staining

05:07:19 BingoBoingo: Oh, but countertop quartz, are you expecting a single piece? Most nao are chip and epoxy abominations unless you beat the greek (stone people are almost always greek) appropriately

05:07:45 decimation: yeah, it's got epoxy

05:07:52 decimation: also it takes no maintenace and looks nice

05:08:38 decimation: actually if you want functionality - stainless steel

05:08:52 decimation: easy to clean, antibacterial

05:09:05 BingoBoingo: ;;google chromium poisoning

05:09:07 gribble: Chromium Toxicity Clinical Assessment - History, Signs and Symptoms: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=10&po=11; Chromium toxicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_toxicity; chromium poisoning - chromium related illness - injured by chromium: http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk/workplace-illnesses-and-diseases/chromium-related- (1 more message)

05:09:22 decimation: oh good lord

05:09:31 decimation: how much chromium you gonna pick up from a stainless pot?

05:09:51 BingoBoingo: However much is on the surface

05:12:33 BingoBoingo: Wear items are expendable

05:13:35 BingoBoingo: And engineering is an art of compromises

05:17:21 BingoBoingo: Oh, and reddit is downs agan

05:21:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69098 @ 0.00025648 = 17.7223 BTC [-]

05:45:42 BingoBoingo: !up gavmatic

06:07:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.00026387 = 13.4574 BTC [+]

06:12:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026387 = 5.2774 BTC [+]

06:12:15 mircea_popescu: troy ?! wtf.

06:13:05 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations/#comment-114287 << achtung asciilifeform

06:18:49 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think he prefers the salutation "panzer" when so hailed

06:19:03 mircea_popescu: panzer asciilifeform

06:20:39 BingoBoingo: So, as of a few hours ago this laptop is nao on its 4th cooling fan.

06:22:43 mircea_popescu: hot stuff

06:24:13 BingoBoingo: Seriously. Demanded fans every ~14-16 months on nigbuntu and nao wants to move to a 6 month schedule on OpenBSD

06:24:23 BingoBoingo: I blame Bitcoin

06:24:29 BingoBoingo: in a good way

06:32:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77800 @ 0.00026385 = 20.5275 BTC [-]

06:33:14 mircea_popescu: quartz chips under the blade if not epoxied

06:34:29 BingoBoingo: It does. And if epoxied it not only chips, but tunnels. Too brittle

06:54:12 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel The more time I spend with nonegenarians the kinder dementia pugilistica sounds

06:54:12 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:59:12 mircea_popescu: http://netsledov.ru/issledovateli-bezopasnosti-vzlomali-4096-bitnye-rsa-kluchi/ moar ru. apparently they really like alf.

07:00:34 BingoBoingo: alf is one of them

07:02:12 BingoBoingo: alf is more Russian than them prolly

07:05:03 BingoBoingo: Best I can guess alf is cold war relic Yeltsin was too drunk to deactivate and Putin found too cute to turn off

07:19:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167200 @ 0.00025706 = 42.9804 BTC [-] {2}

07:25:19 mircea_popescu: mike_c "легальные резиденты" my ratting comment @ the_scourge ? lol

07:36:26 BingoBoingo: So, "Guardians of the Galaxy" least unbelievable of the Disney/Marvel movies

07:51:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00025758 = 5.1516 BTC [+]

07:57:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135920 @ 0.00025633 = 34.8404 BTC [-] {2}

08:09:27 BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel

08:09:37 gabriel_laddel: Oh hell yeah

08:09:42 gabriel_laddel: ty

08:12:09 BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Sometimes other senses fail first

08:12:27 gabriel_laddel: https://plus.google.com/photos/101394835895920000944/albums/5938074007124872641/5938073881911435698?pid=5938073881911435698&oid=101394835895920000944

08:13:27 gabriel_laddel: ^ see the first comment on the photo

08:13:45 gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NOncx2jU0Q << Why they're trying to replicate the human hand/arm exactly idk

08:14:45 gabriel_laddel: one could do *much* better quite easily.

08:14:45 BingoBoingo: Eh, the rougher part is people with the grey and white matter in tact with the senses failing

08:14:57 gabriel_laddel: Hey if you want to die, I'm not here to stop you.

08:15:29 mircea_popescu: how goes gabriel_laddel

08:16:18 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: finished an (interactive) Architectural tour of Masamune.

08:16:33 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: need to find a box to hack the install proc on

08:16:53 mircea_popescu: o hey.

08:17:25 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you know someone in the SF Bay area who would throw me a computer, that would be tight.

08:17:40 gabriel_laddel: I'm putting off messaging a friend atm

08:17:51 gabriel_laddel: also, I'm broke, otherwise I'd just buy one.

08:18:03 mircea_popescu: can't say as i do...

08:18:20 mircea_popescu: but listen, if you're broke is thsi sort of grand architectural commitment the bestest policy ?

08:18:33 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I've been broke for like a year now

08:19:06 mircea_popescu: "i've had cancer for like a year now". good for you but eventually it'll kill ya.

08:19:27 gabriel_laddel: So... you remember the tide usd vs. usd usd discussion?

08:19:32 mircea_popescu: yeh

08:19:37 gabriel_laddel: I'll be fine

08:19:43 mircea_popescu: aite.

08:19:51 gabriel_laddel: The only reason I do what I do is.. for the money

08:20:00 mircea_popescu: masamoney ?

08:20:04 gabriel_laddel: yea

08:20:22 mircea_popescu: you wanna run me through that again ?

08:20:30 gabriel_laddel: which part.

08:20:58 gabriel_laddel: trinque: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/master/introduction.lisp

08:21:59 gabriel_laddel: trinque: So I see you like CLIM

08:21:59 mircea_popescu: the money part.

08:22:07 mircea_popescu: im not going to go into how "Most ideas humans would like to

08:22:07 mircea_popescu: ;;; communicate using the computer are quite simple." is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise.

08:22:07 gribble: Error: ";" is not a valid command.

08:24:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00025758 = 7.7274 BTC [+]

08:25:42 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

08:25:50 mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot gabriel_laddel

08:25:51 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=gabriel_laddel | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/gabriel_laddel/

08:26:29 gabriel_laddel: I've been broke for like a year, working on that which interests me so that I can make large sums of money rather than the 70-100k/yr you get programming. Also, money is just a system for communicating ideas about value - if one has value it can be turned into money and vice versa.

08:26:36 gabriel_laddel: Masamune is going to make someone a lot of $

08:26:46 gabriel_laddel: ask trinque how much better CLIM is than anything else on Earth

08:27:50 *: mircea_popescu struggles to follow.

08:28:19 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

08:28:30 mircea_popescu: are you in like a public library in guatemala or something

08:28:44 gabriel_laddel: at home with an unpaid AT&T bill

08:29:03 gabriel_laddel: which is seriously fucking up my ability to speak atm

08:30:00 gabriel_laddel: they block various websites, but not all the time?

08:30:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74050 @ 0.00025612 = 18.9657 BTC [-]

08:30:14 gabriel_laddel: I can get on duckduckgo, but not google, but can get on google+?

08:30:16 gabriel_laddel: Idk

08:31:09 mircea_popescu: okay so... how;s this oging to pay your internets bill ?

08:31:35 mircea_popescu: america's top&trolls lol

08:31:39 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

08:31:45 gabriel_laddel: it isn't

08:31:52 gabriel_laddel: I'm clearly valuable, other people take care of me.

08:32:09 mircea_popescu: as in, urmom ?

08:32:14 gabriel_laddel: nah

08:32:26 gabriel_laddel: just people I've met since moving to Cali

08:32:39 mircea_popescu: anyway. so how did you come up with the 20 figure ?

08:33:12 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: sorry, 20?

08:33:34 mircea_popescu: see, this is the golden rule of magic numbers : if you use one and then need context to indentify it, you've misused a magic number.

08:33:41 mircea_popescu: medium sized organizations (1-20 persons).

08:34:37 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

08:34:39 mircea_popescu: nuts.

08:34:42 gabriel_laddel: yeah

08:34:48 gabriel_laddel: After ~20 people you lose the ability for everyone to know everyone else.

08:34:57 gabriel_laddel: you can't convince 30 people who don't know lisp to use it.

08:35:01 mircea_popescu: that's called dunbar's number and is ~100 not ~20

08:35:06 mircea_popescu: unless you're retarded

08:35:25 gabriel_laddel: well, a software development team has different dynamics

08:35:41 mircea_popescu: how have you established this ?

08:35:51 gabriel_laddel: working on a software development team

08:35:56 mircea_popescu: one ?

08:36:03 gabriel_laddel: two

08:36:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 216250 @ 0.00025438 = 55.0097 BTC [-] {3}

08:36:21 mircea_popescu: nuts.

08:36:43 gabriel_laddel: The 20 number isn't a hard limit by any means, and I suppose I should change it because I pulled it out of my arse.

08:36:48 mircea_popescu: exactly.

08:36:51 mircea_popescu: "From this point forward it is assumed you have set aside some time to learn Masamune and need no justification for as to why any particular abstraction has been chosen." << so is this a cult then ?

08:37:19 gabriel_laddel: Nah, justification is available, I just don't want it cluttering the presentation.

08:37:50 mircea_popescu: that is a very different statement from the statement you're actually making.

08:38:22 gabriel_laddel: :/ I don't immediately see how that is, but OK.

08:39:52 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Is the argentine legal system as derpy as the rest of the country?

08:40:02 mircea_popescu: no, it's much worse.

08:42:10 mircea_popescu: "HotSlut22" #P"/root/quicklisp/local-projects/masamune/images/hot-slut22-avatar.png"))) o.O

08:42:22 gabriel_laddel: Yup.

08:43:06 gabriel_laddel: I needed an avatar for an example WoT program and dipped into the xxx folder

08:45:05 mircea_popescu: github is so fucking retarded

08:45:20 gabriel_laddel: as is git

08:45:26 mircea_popescu: "Contributions in the last year". what the FUCK does this mean.

08:45:31 mircea_popescu: "i dunno man, i just like counting"

08:45:35 gabriel_laddel: haha

08:45:47 mircea_popescu: here's a count of the items i've been counting : 833

08:45:55 mircea_popescu: now divide it by 7 and make a graph!

08:46:04 gabriel_laddel: Graphs are the future yo

08:46:21 mircea_popescu: fake meaningless numbers processed as if they weren't. fucking fiat mindrot

08:46:48 gabriel_laddel: Data visualization will save the seas of failed "college students".... or so they hope.

08:46:58 mircea_popescu: this user has produced 77 productions and consumed 52 consumptions. 991 users approve.

08:48:31 mircea_popescu: politicomathsocioscience 101 for the new generation : let there be user A who has 43 positive meaningless ticks and 22 negative meaningless ticks ; and user B who has 12 PMT and 17 NMT. who would win in a fight between homer simpson and a himalayan sherpa ?

08:48:48 mircea_popescu: a : user B, because his PMT are cars, whereas user A's PMTs are empty cherio wrappers.

08:49:54 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you've got some spare time on your hands, (Mc)CLIM is neato

08:50:16 mircea_popescu: im testing eulora atm.

08:50:55 mircea_popescu: "how many lcd screens do you get by adding seven oranges to a bucket of water ?" "8"

08:51:58 gabriel_laddel: I didn't know the eurola crafting system was so advanced

08:52:31 mircea_popescu: >1k items o.O

08:54:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198750 @ 0.00025541 = 50.7627 BTC [+]

08:56:59 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> that's called dunbar's number and is ~100 not ~20 << See how Dunbar's number works is you can know 150 people, harass 1500 people, but only count on at most 15 to follow instructions

08:57:33 mircea_popescu: it gets complicated.

08:57:38 BingoBoingo: Indeed

08:59:19 BingoBoingo: White people had a big gunfight in Texas over the weekend without civilian casualties and now everyone derps about big bad biker gangs

08:59:45 BingoBoingo: Poplar discourse is stupid

09:00:00 gabriel_laddel: Isn't Texas in a standoff with the Federal gov. atm?

09:00:27 BingoBoingo: That actually might be over or ongoing.

09:01:22 BingoBoingo: Weekend's drama was apparently biker gang splinter group was being confronted by their sponsors and likely DEA agent ran over some dude's toes, then hemophilia

09:04:25 BingoBoingo: Just assuming DEA, because gunfight...

09:06:13 BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel

09:06:25 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-04-2015#1097710 << If I take different 3 buckets of paint and mix them into a homogeneous color is the system more or less ordered?

09:06:25 assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 20:39:18; mircea_popescu: africa is actually, at least from what i've observed, extremely ordered.

09:06:48 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-04-2015#1097619 << Thanks, that sentence was wrong. I was attempting to say was "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax short a full parser+printer". This is an extremely important point, addressed by Erik in his perl treatise:

09:06:48 assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 19:58:13; ben_vulpes: "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax (detect false positives short a full parser)" << this strikes me as a special case of the "cannot simulate a universe without a universe" claim.

09:06:53 gabriel_laddel: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3163193555464012@naggum.no.html http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244575386963745@naggum.no.html http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3142145710427254@naggum.no.html

09:09:53 BingoBoingo: Depends on the strength of your microscope

09:09:54 Apocalyptic: ;;later tell asciilifeform re pgpdump it actually displays details of HPA's invalid subkey, but for some reason doesn't print the associated keyid even once so my grep missed it

09:09:54 gribble: The operation succeeded.

09:11:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00025541 = 1.0983 BTC [+]

09:12:38 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097935 << I'm not envisioning a great new wave of lisp on UNIX. Most people, when they use software, never question foundational abstractions. I can hack lisp, but cannot hack the myriad "dodo languages" UNIX is written in (and retain my sanity). If people are going to be writing code it should be in

09:12:38 assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:36:29; asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.

09:12:38 gabriel_laddel: CL. Additionally, I want people who have no prior knowledge of computing to develop taste. Gedankenexperiment: spend 10k USD, purchase stock PCs, preload with something somewhat sane (Actually complete Masamune/bitcoin-assets distro) and distribute to a class of kids "learning to program". IMHO they'll play around with it, do their work and then p

09:12:38 gabriel_laddel: romptly forget about it. Actual people don't forget the experience of using something interesting (see your own hypercard post). I want them to be absolutely fucking incensed when they encounter windows or the like. Also, I love being able to kill/yank text in the browser + Emacs + CLIM. Also, money.

09:14:46 gabriel_laddel: trinque: is that like when gabriel_laddel reads loper-os then screams about lisp at everyone? << After using CLIM, do you feel like screaming at people?

09:15:12 gabriel_laddel: 03:55:16 mircea_popescu: or for that matter, predict the next one, so you know where not to go o.O << Cincinnati

09:16:31 mircea_popescu: i still don't see the money part. this is art, at best.

09:20:22 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I'd argue with you, but it'll be less labor intensive to just wait until you use it (or even a select codebase like CLIM)

09:20:29 gabriel_laddel: everything will "click"

09:20:55 gabriel_laddel: and you'll say something similar to trinque "I have lived in a river of shit my entire life"

09:21:02 gabriel_laddel: at least, this is my prediction

09:22:39 mircea_popescu: well, i don't code much, so it's unlikely to make much difference to me. but in any case, this is how a good joke goes, or a good book. good books don't make much money.

09:23:24 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you had Eurola shipped in 1/2 the time this would matter to you, no?

09:23:46 mircea_popescu: notrly. the sticking point atm is the art and my game design, not the code.

09:24:17 mircea_popescu: i'd be pretty pissy if it was waiting on code.

09:27:33 mircea_popescu: but w/e, im a bad example. suppose for someone it matters, and it saves them 10 billion pula.

09:27:42 mircea_popescu: so they install it and run it, and that's that.

09:27:48 mircea_popescu: how do you capture a fraction of the 10 bn pula ?

09:28:39 gabriel_laddel: I took an early demo (long before I discovered CLIM) to large company X, demonstrated all the information I could collect, that I could write lessons integrated into the whole desktop environment. This company has the sneaking suspicion that people sort of dick around during the onboarding process and there is a huge variation in how long people ta

09:28:39 gabriel_laddel: ke to complete it. Via Masamune it is possible to find out what these people are doing, optimize confusing paths etc.

09:29:23 gabriel_laddel: I plan to write custom (source included) extensions for select parteners

09:30:01 gabriel_laddel: eventually, if possible sell a 3D 'CLIM'

09:30:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54800 @ 0.00025366 = 13.9006 BTC [-]

09:31:12 mircea_popescu: so rhel basically

09:31:27 mircea_popescu: aka, art (in the "what is art" on fraudsters sense - work for the lord).

09:33:38 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

09:33:52 mircea_popescu: well... hopefully you have an artist's stomach

09:34:12 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

09:34:26 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: exactly

09:35:04 mircea_popescu: who knew computing will spawn its own minstrelsy

09:35:45 gabriel_laddel: lol

09:35:46 mircea_popescu: (historically this is the EXACT contribution of the artist to the world, your "I have lived in a river of shit my entire life" or as jourdain put it, "i had no idea i was talking in prose".)

09:37:34 gabriel_laddel: Mathematica makes money, people say the exact same things about their software "I have lived in a...", but their product is braindamaged.

09:38:10 mircea_popescu: mathematica only makes money because it's braindamaged imo

09:38:22 gabriel_laddel: do explain

09:38:37 mircea_popescu: not causation, but unbreakable correlation

09:38:56 mircea_popescu: ie, you can't have the things that make it make money without the causes of the braindamage

09:39:50 gabriel_laddel: Symbolics Inc. made quite a bit of money - their products were not braindamaged.

09:40:03 mircea_popescu: you might be misinformed.

09:40:11 mircea_popescu: they failed for purely sales reasons.

09:40:16 gabriel_laddel: Yep.

09:40:23 mircea_popescu: so no, they didn't make money

09:40:43 gabriel_laddel: The real question is - how much did they spend on real estate in CA?

09:40:53 mircea_popescu: ok, that also

09:40:54 mircea_popescu: idiots.

09:41:44 *: gabriel_laddel *shrugs*

09:42:27 gabriel_laddel: Again, I would happily pay 10k-20k for a computing environment that doesn't waste my time.

09:42:31 gabriel_laddel: it doesn't exist.

09:42:46 mircea_popescu: i thought you had bills in arrears. how would you pay a 10k bill ?

09:42:56 gabriel_laddel: I've not always been broke

09:43:00 gabriel_laddel: I just happen to be atm

09:43:09 mircea_popescu: so you would have, rather than would ?

09:43:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92432 @ 0.00025366 = 23.4463 BTC [-]

09:43:35 gabriel_laddel: if sane computing existed I would (update and then) send out my resume

09:43:55 mircea_popescu: provided, of course, they let you work on it only

09:44:06 gabriel_laddel: not at all

09:44:20 gabriel_laddel: I'd happily work at pretty much anything to make money for a sane computer.

09:44:29 mircea_popescu: so imagine it exists and they don't let you work on it oh oh oh i see.

09:44:48 mircea_popescu: so imagine it exists and it costs the money you have + 1.

09:45:03 gabriel_laddel: yeah?

09:45:09 mircea_popescu: i think for the record most capitalists work on this concept

09:45:27 gabriel_laddel: ^ this is my impression

09:45:28 mircea_popescu: "the world sucks, and id pay any sum for one that didn't. well... suppose it exists and it costs what i have +1 ... best get to work then"

09:46:00 gabriel_laddel: That sentence is somewhat confusing.

09:46:11 mircea_popescu: which part ?

09:46:28 gabriel_laddel: "that didn't. well... suppose it exists and costs what I have +1"

09:46:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91145 @ 0.00024411 = 22.2494 BTC [-]

09:47:09 gabriel_laddel: My position is simply that I can be broke and work on what I want to work on without being terribly inconvenienced

09:47:10 mircea_popescu: 1. world sucks ; 2. capitalist would pay any sum for a world that doesn't suck ; 3. sadly that world doesn't exist ; 4. but the capitalist simply presumes it exists, and it's for sale for the money he has + 1

09:47:21 mircea_popescu: so 5. he goes to work, makes more money. this of course scales up the price.

09:47:57 mircea_popescu: so he spends his life chasing the world that doesn't suck, a dollar at a time.

09:48:12 gabriel_laddel: Hmm.. I think 4 should be "the capitalist simply presumes it *will* exist"

09:48:23 mircea_popescu: why?

09:48:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95100 @ 0.00025541 = 24.2895 BTC [+]

09:48:48 gabriel_laddel: If it doesn't exist, and other people want it - go make and sell it.

09:49:07 mircea_popescu: he;s a capitalist not a metaphysicist.

09:49:19 mircea_popescu: in any case, this approach illuminates the fundamentally pessimistic outlook of the socialist.

09:50:25 mircea_popescu: (which is why "does" not "will" - the bourgeois has no adherence to metaphysics.)

09:52:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103450 @ 0.00025714 = 26.6011 BTC [+] {2}

09:53:20 gabriel_laddel: "he;s a capitalist not a metaphysicist. " << I don't understand how this follows

09:55:22 gabriel_laddel: This model is bizzare. So if I'm a capitalist I should make money to purchase that which does not exist?

09:55:28 gabriel_laddel: admittedly, you can hire people

09:55:34 gabriel_laddel: but in this particular situation, who?

09:55:55 gabriel_laddel: I'd end up having to type for them, and at that point, wtf I'll just do it myself

10:00:23 gabriel_laddel: Though I'll note the "chasing a better world a dollar at a time" makes a great deal of sense, unless one lives in the peculiar bezzle-buck nightmare we currently inhabit.

10:04:19 gabriel_laddel: story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. I got another place, found fraudsters+#bitcoin-assets and... got evicted again.

10:04:29 gabriel_laddel: alright, goodnight.

10:07:50 assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 15000 @ 0.000207 = 3.105 BTC [+]

10:09:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 18000 @ 0.00009 = 1.62 BTC [-]

10:14:15 mircea_popescu: if you're a capitalist everything exists

10:15:22 *: mircea_popescu thinks gabriel and janna would make a perfect couple.

10:27:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138350 @ 0.00025037 = 34.6387 BTC [-]

11:10:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67765 @ 0.00025758 = 17.4549 BTC [+]

11:21:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28350 @ 0.00025744 = 7.2984 BTC [-]

11:46:12 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: im not going to go into how "Most ideas humans would like to communicate using the computer are quite simple." is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise. << I didn't see this prior to our conversation, courtesy of not paying my bills. This is actually the crux of it, so let's revisit. You've publicly stated something to th

11:46:12 gabriel_laddel: e effect of "linux devs are idiots and I'd like a judiciously defaulted gentoo please". The question is, at what point does this become something that you (or others ben_vulpes, mod6, asciilifeform etc have already wasted time derping with gentoo) would pay for? People pay for (what they see as) quality software - sublime text makes money, as does

11:46:12 gabriel_laddel: Intellij. The problem with these (ALGOL based) businesses is that their organizations ossify because of the sheer number of people that must get involved in any sort of "automation of programming". This is inescapable if you choose to use ALGOL. I realize that this isn't a result you believe exists, but reality doesn't care. Aside from software dev

11:46:12 gabriel_laddel: s, industrial chemists, architects, research physicists etc would like to have a plug-and-play solution for going about their work. There is money to be made here. Afaik the only way to get there is: 1. revert to paper 2. teach *everyone* what an AST is, choose a language, add AST traversal mechanisms and write *everything* in it (this will continu

11:46:12 gabriel_laddel: ally burn some of Earth's brighter minds, someone needs to think about the gnarly parser semantics when the language's syntax is updated - my experience is that you can't pay people to care) 3. use lisp. People have already tried 1 & 2, and the result is inevitably that even if they make money (Mathematica, Microsoft, Oracle...) the foundations of

11:46:12 gabriel_laddel: shit catch up with them and we end up where we are today - nothing works and everyone insists that it does because they've bought into a lie. As for "is both factually incorrect and a very poor premise", thank you, will update.

11:46:27 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: if you're a capitalist everything exists << this makes no sense to me.

11:46:27 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu thinks gabriel and janna would make a perfect couple. << I'm almost insulted.

11:47:59 mircea_popescu: lol but why ? she wouldn't let you get evicted.

11:49:43 mircea_popescu: the problem with your theory is exactly that : it's a theory. life on earth is emergent pattern in chaos, not sensible arrangement.

11:50:19 chetty: or chaos emerging from a pattern

11:50:29 mircea_popescu: hehe

11:51:16 mircea_popescu: now, the reason the quote is factually incorrect is pure godel. what you imagine as "simple" is only simple because you're using an unsimple language. otherwise, if you face the problem directly, it's very complex.

11:51:39 mircea_popescu: moreover, and this is the important part, it's a poor premise because only idiots start their stuff with "most people"

11:51:55 mircea_popescu: forget most people. you've not even made something and are already blunting it ? make it be good first, most people after.

11:52:45 chetty: no such thing as 'most people'

11:53:04 mircea_popescu: and as to "if you're a capitalist everything exists" - it's a subtle point, but in order for one to be a capitalist, the requisite premise is "that which is is and necesarily is, and that which is not is not and necessarily is not", ie, parmenides.

11:53:23 mircea_popescu: so no, for a capitalist it is eminently impossible for something to not be and then come into being.

11:53:41 mircea_popescu: only discoveries. no inventions.

11:53:57 mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel

11:54:40 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: lol but why ? she wouldn't let you get evicted. << I think she'd actually evict me, then decry that there were homeless programmers.

11:55:08 gabriel_laddel: I'm not a socialist in anycase, I support my own being evicted.

11:55:16 gabriel_laddel: I just happen to enjoy reading.

11:56:49 mircea_popescu: you know womenz can be fiercely loyal in spite of their better knowledge.

11:57:11 mircea_popescu: generally, it doesn't work out for them

11:57:29 gabriel_laddel: Heh, women tend to not be loyal to me.

11:57:45 mircea_popescu: now why would that be

11:57:49 gabriel_laddel: my experience suggests that one must fuck them for this to be the case.

11:58:03 gabriel_laddel: only discoveries. no inventions. << Okay, this makes sense - but someone must discover.

11:58:16 mircea_popescu: yeah. children.

11:58:32 mircea_popescu: the historical utility of children for human society is that they are more than happy to stick random things in their mouth.

11:58:37 gabriel_laddel: !s is a child

11:58:38 assbot: 62 results for 'is a child' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=is+a+child

11:58:50 mircea_popescu: they were used as exploration drones, basically. see what fruit is poisonous etc.

12:00:43 gabriel_laddel: This is basically my current utility afaik

12:00:52 mircea_popescu: apparently.

12:07:06 gabriel_laddel: !up CheckDavid

12:10:53 gabriel_laddel: !up CheckDavid

12:17:13 gabriel_laddel: !up Adlai

12:20:38 gabriel_laddel: !up Guest14108

12:23:01 gabriel_laddel: !up shesek

12:24:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155300 @ 0.00025415 = 39.4695 BTC [-] {2}

12:30:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.00025805 = 22.1794 BTC [+] {3}

12:37:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 212200 @ 0.00024976 = 52.9991 BTC [-] {2}

12:42:44 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu got it

12:42:44 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:45:16 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141568 << that thing is copy-pasted all over ru spamosphere, with scarcely any variation, and no mention whatsoever of the updates.

12:45:16 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 06:59:12; mircea_popescu: http://netsledov.ru/issledovateli-bezopasnosti-vzlomali-4096-bitnye-rsa-kluchi/ moar ru. apparently they really like alf.

12:48:09 asciilifeform: and speaking of which, the paulgrahamian blackout against the story is nearly total.

12:48:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00024961 = 26.2715 BTC [-]

12:48:42 asciilifeform: entirely absent from the peanut gallery, and voted down into oblivion in the particular spots where i personally tried to insert it.

12:49:00 asciilifeform: (the update, that is)

12:50:35 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141789 << somehow suspected this.

12:50:35 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 10:04:19; gabriel_laddel: story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. I got another place, found fraudsters+#bitcoin-assets and... got evicted again.

12:50:43 *: asciilifeform wonders how many he led into perdition

12:51:41 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141741 << complicated. see below

12:51:41 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:39:50; gabriel_laddel: Symbolics Inc. made quite a bit of money - their products were not braindamaged.

12:52:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141745 << smbx spent a fortune on r&d. they tried to amortize this cost any way they could, but nothing worked - other than peddling golden toilets to usg and subsidiaries. when political fortunes changes - it was over.

12:52:44 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:40:23; mircea_popescu: so no, they didn't make money

12:53:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. of course. when caught lying... freeze.

12:53:38 asciilifeform: so yes, they made neat things, no, they didn't figure out how to pay for it. and no one was ever able to repeat because this has not changed - no one today can afford the necessary degree of non-retardation.

12:54:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it works for them, no ?

12:54:18 mircea_popescu: no.

12:54:49 asciilifeform: the buggers are, likely, very busy atm - preparing their 'we did it before'

12:54:51 mircea_popescu: it didn't work for karpeles, it didn't work for lawsky, it ain't gonna work for graham, or for anyone else.

12:55:00 mircea_popescu: it only works when "everyone". there's no everyone.

12:55:01 *: asciilifeform looks forward to the demolition of graham et al

12:56:37 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141750 << him and six other folks. others just want to play 'solitaire' apparently.

12:56:37 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:42:27; gabriel_laddel: Again, I would happily pay 10k-20k for a computing environment that doesn't waste my time.

12:57:35 asciilifeform: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel: i must confess that i personally would not pay -anything- for a unix of any description whatsoever.

12:57:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:02:05 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1141772 << the interesting thing is the blindness of this stereotypical character to items which -could- exist but cannot be brought into existence through traditional methods - planning, hiring, management. ergo items which could exist if you gave $raggedlispdervish a bathtub of benjies no-strings, do not and cannot exist because this is rather like asking $capitalist to stick hi

13:02:05 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 09:47:10; mircea_popescu: 1. world sucks ; 2. capitalist would pay any sum for a world that doesn't suck ; 3. sadly that world doesn't exist ; 4. but the capitalist simply presumes it exists, and it's for sale for the money he has + 1

13:02:05 asciilifeform: s cock in dulap.

13:03:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do i recall correctly that at some point they squandered a mn or so on some dumbass real estate deal ?

13:03:25 mircea_popescu: symbolics that is

13:03:26 asciilifeform: they did!

13:03:31 mircea_popescu: aha.

13:03:48 mircea_popescu: engineers suck at management is the long and the short of it.

13:03:53 asciilifeform: and often blamed for killing'em. but this is not entirely unlike a boozer blaming a particular bottle of rotgut 20 yrs ago for his death.

13:04:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my argument is that if smbx had -not- sucked at management, we would not be talking about their products today.

13:04:25 asciilifeform: they would've sold unix boxes.

13:04:35 asciilifeform: like sun et al

13:04:37 mircea_popescu: eh, alt-history. who knows.

13:05:01 mircea_popescu: im not familiar enough with the text & its context to call it

13:05:04 asciilifeform: sorta like the only other outfit of that period, thinking machines corp.

13:05:35 asciilifeform: -also- sold unique machine (you needed a smbx lispmach to run it, in fact, as front-end) but -also- comically mismanaged and squandered most of its dough on french chefs, etc.

13:05:51 asciilifeform: i do not believe the correlation to be pure accident here

13:06:25 mircea_popescu: i am more familiar with games market 20 years later by a long shot.

13:06:49 mircea_popescu: this scenario played itself there numerous times : people with great ideas sucked at business.

13:07:04 mircea_popescu: however, because > 100 tries, rather than the 3-4 you see in os market,

13:07:15 mircea_popescu: there WERE cases which'd have been the "Competent symbolics that didn't do unix"

13:07:20 mircea_popescu: like... maybe 3.

13:07:20 asciilifeform: i'm not certain this is an accident. folks who are good at business, know better than to try selling lisp to mass market

13:08:00 mircea_popescu: you understand good games are a lot more elitist than good os right ?

13:08:18 asciilifeform: possibly

13:08:27 mircea_popescu: because os has at least theoretically utility.

13:08:29 asciilifeform: but game is also much cheaper on the expenditure side of things

13:08:41 mircea_popescu: nobody plays a game because "i hate it but whatever, it works"

13:08:47 asciilifeform: l0l

13:08:55 mircea_popescu: yes, it is, which is how we got 100 tries rather than 3.

13:08:56 asciilifeform: 'farmville' ?

13:09:15 mircea_popescu: however, that doesn't matter - how cheap it is in absolute terms. whether you have 100 outfits each owing 1mn or 5 outfits each owing 20mn

13:09:22 asciilifeform: (hated but played. or those ipad casinos from last night's thread)

13:09:35 mircea_popescu: i would say this is not hate but pretend-hate.

13:09:41 mircea_popescu: like feminists "hating" men

13:09:52 *: asciilifeform can see how this might be

13:11:50 asciilifeform: incidentally, symbolics was not managed by engineers. it was managed by business expert types who were mislead by engineers into believing that the cost of the research could be amortized via 'honest work.' the lisp machine vendor which -was- managed by engineers into a very early grave, was lmi corp.

13:12:01 asciilifeform: (yes, the one in rms's tales)

13:12:04 mircea_popescu: so it ... WAS managed by engineers.

13:12:17 mircea_popescu: engineer-bitch topping from the bottom still counts.

13:12:29 asciilifeform: i suppose it does!

13:13:26 mircea_popescu: you familiar with the fascinating case of fred quimby ?

13:13:37 asciilifeform: not afaik

13:13:46 mircea_popescu: ok, this will be enlightening.

13:13:57 mircea_popescu: you ARE deeply, intimately touched by his work

13:14:15 mircea_popescu: because fred quimby is the man that made cartoons be a meme. tom and jerry, loony tunes, all of it.

13:14:29 mircea_popescu: cartoons exist in your mental universe because fred quimby lived at some point.

13:14:52 mircea_popescu: now this man... he was a sales manager. hired away iirc from walmart, or some such, to run an animation studio.

13:15:17 mircea_popescu: which he ran exactly like a fish market. opressing the ever-so-creative creative ppls, and famously lacking any sort of a sense of humour

13:15:25 mircea_popescu: or even any interest in the subject of his profession.

13:15:39 mircea_popescu: then, after decades, and NINE oscars, ie, his weight in fucking gold, he retired.

13:16:12 mircea_popescu: the studio was taken over by the jenius creative minds in questions. you probably also know their names, because they are intricately connected to the absolute worst shit animation ever saw.

13:16:20 asciilifeform: possibly on account of not being a deep scholar of this subject, i dare to guess that it was a 'balance of power' thing.

13:16:22 mircea_popescu: the jetsons. scooby doo. take your pick

13:16:27 mircea_popescu: wacky fucking races.

13:16:35 mircea_popescu: if there was ever a bad cartoon, hanna & barbera made it.

13:16:38 mircea_popescu: and then went bankrupt.

13:16:46 mircea_popescu: twice

13:16:52 mircea_popescu: and never got an oscar ever again.

13:16:54 asciilifeform: the artists had enough pull to avoid being steamrollered by fishmonger. fishmonger had sufficient balls to avoid being steamrollered by artists.

13:17:07 mircea_popescu: western animation would languish until someone signed mr spiel to do 100`000 movies a year.

13:17:13 mircea_popescu: possibru.

13:17:44 asciilifeform: this existed elsewhere - various u.s. chemical and misc. r&d corps of the '40-60s come to mind

13:17:50 mircea_popescu: indeed.

13:22:09 asciilifeform: in other news, the buggers know no bounds, http://www.networkworld.com/article/2925215/security0/new-protocol-from-guardtime-hopes-to-unseat-rsa-for-authentication-digital-signatures.html

13:23:10 asciilifeform: 'consider this excellent snake oil to replace tired old rsa' aha.

13:23:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the amusing tactical implication here is that well... they actually would have loved to say rsa is bad.

13:23:10 asciilifeform: naturally.

13:23:10 mircea_popescu: it's like... that's where the entire "mp is a troll" thing came from.

13:23:10 asciilifeform: hence the immediate angle of 'omg1111!!!111!11 rsa broke'

13:23:10 mircea_popescu: shit fucking hurt, "you seriously mean he makes us choose between this and that ?!?!"

13:23:24 mircea_popescu: i must admit i had a lot of fun with it.

13:24:52 asciilifeform: http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/689 << what they actually did. think 'deedbot' but since bitcoin never existed on their planet, they demand crippled computers with super seekrit drm cpu.

13:25:52 asciilifeform: on planet usg, it is always 1992

13:25:52 asciilifeform: sorta like poor old schmuck with dementia is always whatever his age of last controlled bowel movement, mentally

13:25:52 asciilifeform: (or imagines)

13:26:20 mircea_popescu: too bad so sad etc

13:26:42 asciilifeform: 'Like Bitcoin, Black Lantern uses an open-ledger system in which derived hash-value trees are maintained by Guardtime in order to monitor for changes. In the case of Bitcoin the values represent transactions; in the case of Guardtime, it?s the hashed signatures of the assets being tracked.' << tr0l0l0l

13:27:53 mircea_popescu: lol

13:28:05 mircea_popescu: BLACK LANTERN dude!!1

13:28:34 mircea_popescu: like a black hawk crashed into green lantern.

13:28:38 mircea_popescu: fucktards, these people.

13:28:51 asciilifeform: well-funded fucktards.

13:29:37 mircea_popescu: yeah. the sorta-fat, cowardly, euglena-scented kid everyone beat the shit out of in school.

13:29:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.00024961 = 12.3807 BTC [-]

13:30:00 asciilifeform: euglena? the microbe ?

13:30:22 mircea_popescu: protist, yeah

13:30:32 mircea_popescu: ;;google "cu miros de euglene"

13:30:34 gribble: MO-Piftel Cenzurat de Darius Iurca - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43tDr9XndEE; Galben de metil - Wikipedia: http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galben_de_metil; Murray Rothbard - Wikipedia: http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard

13:30:45 mircea_popescu: romanian is expressive what can i tell ya.

13:30:48 asciilifeform: l0l

13:30:55 davout: ;;ticker --market buttfinex

13:30:57 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 235.38, Best ask: 235.43, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 235.46, 24 hour volume: 12953.63746798, 24 hour low: 233.2, 24 hour high: 236.5, 24 hour vwap: None

13:31:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expect a great many of these 'will unseat rsa' idiocies.

13:32:00 mircea_popescu: well now that it's broken...

13:32:27 *: asciilifeform sorta surprised they didn't push the 'broken' narrative further

13:33:14 mircea_popescu: what, and crown us ?

13:33:30 mircea_popescu: nah, it's gotta be 2nd pass, with the usual vague baked in

13:33:36 mircea_popescu: "recent advances" bla bla

13:33:42 asciilifeform: ... and peddle some 'lantern' replacement idiocy, why wouldn't they

13:34:26 mircea_popescu: the other half is pushing for simply outlawing it, so.

13:34:34 mircea_popescu: as you say, balance

13:35:43 asciilifeform: the 'soft power' weasels tend to eat the 'hard power' shoot'em-all types.

13:36:13 asciilifeform: just as the 'make plebes stupid & pliant' folks ate the 'pinkerton' pour la canaille - la mitraille types.

13:36:23 mircea_popescu: myeah

13:36:33 asciilifeform: (see limonov for mega-exploration of this)

13:37:57 asciilifeform: not much balance, really. eventually everything softens into the soft fecal matter (tm) of 'soft power'

13:38:26 asciilifeform: hence how the '90s 'crypto wars' ended with 'crypto is usg-legal but you can't buy an actual computer' thing

13:38:27 mircea_popescu: the idea is to avoid splashing

13:42:29 asciilifeform: splashing?

13:43:24 mircea_popescu: yes. as the us turns into shit, the balancing act consists in avoiding splashing

13:50:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141700 @ 0.00026009 = 36.8548 BTC [+] {2}

13:50:54 *: asciilifeform is marvelling at the totality and cleanliness of the blackout. virtually no traces of The List anywhere.

13:51:01 asciilifeform: anywhere public, that is

13:53:46 asciilifeform: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aeLkbmNdBooJ:forum.piratenpartei.de/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D222843&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1 <<< grenzenlosnaiv ?

13:55:00 asciilifeform: https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=A50591247C8E37A64117B74F78AB527059E13694 << just the 2 of us.

13:56:28 asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/grenzenlosnaiv << possible candidate, german, 'pirate party'

14:13:32 wyrdmantis: Goodmorning/goodnight

14:13:40 wyrdmantis: breaking http://bitstein.org/notebook/ben-lawsky-has-defected-to-bitcoin/

14:14:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34300 @ 0.00026302 = 9.0216 BTC [+] {2}

14:14:59 asciilifeform: wyrdmantis: disingenuous headline. bureaucrats do this faux switcheroo all the fucking time.

14:15:07 wyrdmantis: ;bc,stats

14:15:08 asciilifeform: but they are only ever on one 'side.'

14:15:23 wyrdmantis: ;;bc,stats

14:15:27 gribble: Current Blocks: 357427 | Current Difficulty: 4.880748724468138E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 358847 | Next Difficulty In: 1420 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 14 hours, 32 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48731864673.8 | Estimated Percent Change: -0.15494

14:15:58 wyrdmantis: so is neither bad nor good news?

14:16:25 asciilifeform: wyrdmantis: about as interesting as a burglar getting out of jail to work at an alarm company

14:16:43 asciilifeform: (which he will eventually rob)

14:17:27 wyrdmantis: asciilifeform: i see, it's hilarious

14:18:13 asciilifeform: the inevitable question which comes to mind is - why should we give a damn about this particular burglar? what world records of theft, or even of daring, did he break?

14:18:28 asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, he's just another larcenous piece of shit

14:26:13 bitstein: asciilifeform: good points. I posted it mostly as a reaction to the knee-jerk reddit response getting all butthurt that he would do such a thing. Of course, indifference may be the best response.

14:28:02 asciilifeform: bitstein: the best reaction to bureaucrats is the centuries-old formula popularized by solzhenitsyn - 'не верь не бойся не проси' ('don't believe'em, don't fear'em, don't ask [anything] of them'

14:28:04 asciilifeform: )

14:28:54 bitstein: That's great.

14:29:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 448400 @ 0.00026496 = 118.8081 BTC [+] {5}

14:32:54 chetty: http://www.thedailysheeple.com/cops-who-flash-banged-infant-are-blaming-the-baby_052015

14:37:55 asciilifeform: chetty: gestapo could have entered a picture of mickey mouse as a defense. and will win

14:38:26 asciilifeform: chetty: because their having to even file a defense is a mere formality. what, you imagine that court will say 'gestapo can no longer throw grenade before entering suspect house' ?

14:39:10 asciilifeform: picture if the judge were to find for the plaintiff

14:39:19 chetty: indeed

14:39:34 asciilifeform: quite likely the response would be something like andrew jackson's 'marshall has made his verdict, now let him enforce it.'

14:39:57 asciilifeform: (worcester v georgia)

14:40:55 asciilifeform: 'entering a room is always done in pairs. first mr. grenade, then - you.' (ru, apocryphal)

14:42:03 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> as far as i can tell, he's just another larcenous piece of shit << well, he's one of the first crop of derpy bureaucrats who thought they;'re gonna leverage the fiat state into a position of bitcoin power in a hostile manner.

14:42:12 mircea_popescu: he was defeated. no big whoop, for anyone except them.

14:45:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123100 @ 0.00026797 = 32.9871 BTC [+] {2}

14:48:48 williamdunne: chetty: Is that satire?

14:50:45 chetty: well I recall the incident about the kid getting hurt a while back, not so sure about the court case

14:53:00 williamdunne: Sure no I know about the baby I just meant their response

14:54:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77000 @ 0.00026812 = 20.6452 BTC [+] {2}

14:57:37 chetty: well I guess one would have to go read the actual court documents to be sure

15:13:26 mircea_popescu: !up tcrypt

15:14:45 mircea_popescu: trinque check it out, deedbot joined the evil side ?

15:21:41 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 291 @ 0.00476312 = 1.3861 BTC [-] {6}

15:24:33 mircea_popescu: !up s7r

15:24:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, chetty: looks genuine. http://www.scribd.com/doc/265760507/Flash-Bang-Reply

15:25:36 mircea_popescu: eh by now the us police's got to this point where a) they're dumb enough to crash into each other and b) when it happens they'll write the wind a ticket for reckless endangerment.

15:26:01 chetty: asciilifeform, well that is certainly proof we have passed thru the looking glass, if anyone needed proof

15:27:53 asciilifeform: chetty: vestigial things, no longer having a logical reason to exist, tend to get trimmed down and eventually disappear. like cavalry sabres. in this case - the pretense of 'law'

15:28:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a) they're dumb enough to crash into each other << recall last year's shootout featuring solely police ?

15:28:42 mircea_popescu: no ?

15:28:46 asciilifeform: (iirc on two opposite sides of an obstacle, parked cars)

15:28:49 mircea_popescu: my dementia progresses unabated

15:29:35 *: asciilifeform searches logs in vain

15:30:34 *: asciilifeform bbl

15:54:05 lobbes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-05-2015#1133388 << lmao. Idk why this cracks me up so much

15:54:05 assbot: Logged on 15-05-2015 23:16:59; BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu qntra banner http://i.imgur.com/8mYHVc0.png

15:55:15 davout: News, views, & RABBITZ

15:58:55 mircea_popescu: "Autobiography is only to be trusted when it reveals something disgraceful. A man who gives a good account of himself is probably lying, since any life when viewed from the inside is simply a series of defeats. However, even the most flagrantly dishonest book (Frank Harris's autobiographical writings are an example) can without intending it give a true picture of its author. Dali's recently published LIFE comes under t

15:58:56 mircea_popescu: his heading. Some of the incidents in it are flatly incredible, others have been rearranged and romanticised, and not merely the humiliation but the persistent ORDINARINESS of everyday life has been cut out. Dali is even by his own diagnosis narcissistic, and his autobiography is simply a strip-tease act conducted in pink limelight. But as a record of fantasy, of the perversion of instinct that has been made possible b

15:58:56 mircea_popescu: y the machine age, it has great value."

15:59:04 mircea_popescu: one wonders what orwell would have thought of twitter.

16:27:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 347506 @ 0.00026531 = 92.1968 BTC [-] {2}

16:57:43 scoopbot_revived: There's no progress without control. http://www.contravex.com/2015/05/21/theres-no-progress-without-control/

17:28:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2841 @ 0.00044706 = 1.2701 BTC [+] {5}

17:47:51 davout: fluffypony: i'm in ur meetup, stealing mozilla's wifi

17:50:57 davout: first speech is quite derpy

17:57:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110500 @ 0.00026218 = 28.9709 BTC [-]

17:57:14 danielpbarron: !up somethingsomethi

17:57:27 somethingsomethi: thanks daniel

17:57:38 danielpbarron: you are darksoul from gfy?

17:57:44 somethingsomethi: no

17:57:57 somethingsomethi: whos darksoul

17:58:08 danielpbarron: someone who shares your IP, -

17:58:25 somethingsomethi: clicked a link

17:58:32 somethingsomethi: thats probably why

17:58:42 danielpbarron: what's up, you like bitcoin or what?

17:58:47 somethingsomethi: interested

17:59:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101000 @ 0.00025466 = 25.7207 BTC [-] {2}

18:00:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115450 @ 0.00024885 = 28.7297 BTC [-] {2}

18:01:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14250 @ 0.00024857 = 3.5421 BTC [-]

18:06:27 danielpbarron: !up ascii_field

18:07:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134800 @ 0.00026546 = 35.784 BTC [+] {4}

18:08:32 ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu msg ack'd. mega-l0l!

18:08:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:10:28 trinque: gabriel_laddel | story time: I ran into loper-os after a stint programming clojure as a day job. I ended up getting evicted for playing around with CL instead of paying rent. << don't ever do this; if you can't make money doing it, you're not the guy to do it.

18:11:00 trinque: "I can get us to Mars! It will only take more than any of us have."

18:11:17 trinque: if you're taking us to the damned promised land, better be able to complete the journey

18:11:45 trinque: you may at best go work for the guy who can

18:12:04 trinque: after he beats the word "waste" into your skull

18:12:46 ascii_field: trinque: i dare say that -no one- can make money doing -this-

18:12:59 trinque: I don't believe that.

18:14:55 trinque: or on the other hand, if the only route to mars is starvation, maybe we've got no business aiming for mars just yet

18:15:45 jurov: how doest that compare?

18:16:22 trinque: ascii_field: my observation working for a few brilliant guys is that the unwillingness to break the grand vision into chewable pieces results in failure

18:16:30 jurov: can one go to mars by carefully cultivating their mind?

18:16:51 trinque: jurov: I am saying that if you think your problem is above economics, you're wrong.

18:18:10 trinque: that said things like cardano look like chewable pieces to me

18:18:24 jurov: go tell that to any of the geniuses who pursue clarity at the cost of starving

18:18:33 jurov: that they are wrong!!!

18:19:03 trinque: what does their clarity get me?

18:19:07 trinque: how does this relate?

18:19:46 jurov: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_of_starvation

18:20:46 trinque: its as if someone's laying bricks one by one, and the guy with the vision for the road says "NO, YOU MUST LAY THEM ALL AT ONCE!"

18:20:50 trinque: example, our "end user programming environment" (bastard son of spreadsheet) would've made a fine for-profit database editor

18:21:02 trinque: every other product in its space is garbage

18:21:44 trinque: but the guy was dead set on building this whole relational coding environment for... I don't know, your grandmother, anyone, "the people"!

18:22:36 trinque: actually better example than one road, a highway system

18:22:47 trinque: connecting two cities is useful even if the whole system isn't done.

18:24:54 jurov: if noone can snatch it from him repackage and sell, it§s your fault

18:25:45 trinque: heh, CLIM!

18:26:14 jurov: have you read the log about quimby/hannah&barbera?

18:26:29 jurov: exactly the same case

18:27:11 trinque: I'll take a look

18:27:15 trinque: http://fraudsters.com/2014/fred-quimby-and-ancient-evils/ << ?

18:28:15 trinque: and then whatever convo this brought about

18:28:15 jurov: and it was rehashed literally tonight

18:28:49 trinque: gabriel_laddel | I'm clearly valuable, other people take care of me. << this fucking kid

18:29:40 trinque: these types if they can be managed at all have to be under the command of someone who doesn't give a shit about software as art

18:32:36 ascii_field: it isn't about 'art.'

18:37:17 trinque: assbot: near as I can tell this masamune is going to make gabriel_laddel rich because it "has" value

18:37:23 trinque: guy's never sold a thing in his life

18:37:28 trinque: !up ascii_field

18:37:44 trinque: and also he "has value" because people are feeding him for free?

18:38:05 ascii_field: trinque: laugh if you like, but my issue with gabriel_laddel is precisely that he is willing to compromise -too much- rather than not enough.

18:38:20 trinque: absent this are the economic considerations

18:38:29 trinque: so if there's no path from here to there, it's not a thing

18:38:53 ascii_field: the path is me with 20 years of living expenses paid. or one of possibly 3 other fellas

18:38:55 trinque: considering it as solely an engineering endeavor, you're probably right

18:39:54 trinque: that's a couple million bezzlars tops

18:40:01 trinque: not nearly the umpteen trillion I've heard before

18:40:33 ascii_field: trinque: no, it's approximately this sum in -actual money-

18:40:38 ascii_field: which is a very different matter.

18:41:03 ascii_field: (though whole debate is about whether we ought to fly to alpha centauri or proxima centauri. neither is on the table)

18:44:12 trinque: ascii_field: in your mind is cardano not this kind of pragmatic first step towards future hardware production?

18:44:23 trinque: because considering that I don't see how we disagree

18:44:34 ascii_field: trinque: not related

18:44:50 trinque: just sounds like you're not thinking like a business about that

18:44:52 ascii_field: cardano is made of off-the-shelf parts.

18:44:55 trinque: I'm not talking about the hardware

18:45:02 trinque: er I mean, the engineering of it

18:45:15 trinque: but rather the logistics and cash-flow required to take on the other things

18:45:31 ascii_field: trinque: well, it is also deadly-practical, like a luger

18:45:39 ascii_field: nothing 'blue sky' about it.

18:46:14 trinque: sure, and I hope you charge me a good amount of margin atop cost to own one

18:46:22 trinque: and perhaps other deadly practical things

18:47:28 trinque: being able to control hardware via gpg-o-gram remotely, suuuuper appealing

18:47:38 ascii_field: point is, hard to compare it with project that requires quite possibly more than one lifetime's worth of ab initio research

18:49:56 ascii_field: speaking of,

18:50:07 ascii_field: rng crate, i'm told, has shipped out.

18:50:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43722 @ 0.00024764 = 10.8273 BTC [-] {2}

18:51:18 trinque: nice

19:03:42 trinque: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/21/nsa-plan-find-osama-bin-laden-infiltrating-medical-supply-chain/ << subtext, NSA caught Bin Laden

19:18:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173361 @ 0.00024694 = 42.8098 BTC [-] {2}

19:26:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108542 @ 0.0002471 = 26.8207 BTC [+]

19:37:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150397 @ 0.00025136 = 37.8038 BTC [+] {2}

19:48:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13220 @ 0.0002637 = 3.4861 BTC [+]

19:57:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122100 @ 0.00025735 = 31.4224 BTC [-]

20:06:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89444 @ 0.00026277 = 23.5032 BTC [+]

20:07:33 trinque: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/36ru89/just_days_left_to_kill_mass_surveillance_under/crgjx6s << check out this motherfucker recommending people smartphone apps to protect their sekurity

20:10:33 jurov: it's himself?

20:11:47 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:11:57 ascii_field: let him sign it

20:12:03 ascii_field: otherwise it's hitler talkin'.

20:12:18 ascii_field: (leaving aside the question of whether mr s speaks for hitler)

20:12:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111500 @ 0.00026948 = 30.047 BTC [+] {2}

20:14:22 trinque: who knows, but snowden TM says call your senator and install appz

20:15:08 ascii_field: or reddit says.

20:19:24 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-05-2015#1142132 << they could've simply poisoned him then

20:19:24 assbot: Logged on 21-05-2015 19:03:42; trinque: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/21/nsa-plan-find-osama-bin-laden-infiltrating-medical-supply-chain/ << subtext, NSA caught Bin Laden

20:19:51 ascii_field: (or what, usg hasn't graduated from hogwarts yet and doesn't do poison?)

20:20:33 jurov: "shot and bury at sea" instead

20:25:24 trinque: the whole thing is spectacle

20:27:03 trinque: http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/gyrocopter-pilot-indicted-on-six-counts/ << two felony counts -- one count of "operating as an airman without an airman's certificate" and another count of "violating registration requirements involving aircraft,"

20:28:03 trinque: notably the felonies lack anything about super-top-govt airspace, those were the misdemeanors

20:28:22 trinque: the felonies are simply... we are defining your remote controlled toy as an aircraft

20:28:40 ascii_field: see also, mathias rust ( http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/the-notorious-flight-of-mathias-rust-7101888/?no-ist etc )

20:29:41 trinque: oh shit, nevermind, it was carrying *him*

20:29:41 trinque: so his felony is being a goddamn badass that built his own gyrocopter?

20:29:41 trinque: they're terrified of capable people

20:30:54 trinque: ascii_field: incredible, I'll read it

20:31:00 ascii_field: http://www.usua.org/Rules/ruleandregs.htm << if his machine was under the weight limit - no license needed ?

20:32:00 ascii_field: (doesn't get him out of the trespassing charge, but 'flying without license')

20:32:00 trinque: does look like an ultralight, doesn't it?

20:32:00 ascii_field: aha

20:32:00 trinque: the thing's a chair and propeller

20:37:13 ascii_field: 'In the room waited Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi, who had stopped by for a photo op and was posing a challenge for officers discussing safe ways to get the prime minister out of the building if necessary.' << oh noez, poor muppet might lose a string or two

20:40:15 williamdunne: !rated davout

20:40:15 assbot: You rated user davout on 27-Apr-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: paymium.

20:40:23 williamdunne: !rated fluffypony

20:40:23 assbot: You rated user fluffypony on 20-Apr-2015, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Points out stupidity, and promotes what matters while maintaining his humanity.

20:40:26 ascii_field: incidentally, rust's flight caused the sacking of pretty much the whole of soviet air force brass.

20:40:35 williamdunne: !rate davout 3 paymium, met IRL

20:40:35 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3ff1e6491614d87e

20:40:50 ascii_field: who, if anyone, will usg sack ?

20:40:55 ascii_field: betcha - no one.

20:41:03 williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.davout.3:c906cea9df253411b904bef8d1ed9d67b4e4e03bed7e9bcd0ecbbcc71ec21ab5

20:41:03 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for davout from 1 to 3 with note: paymium, met IRL

20:41:58 williamdunne: !rate fluffypony 5 Met IRL, OpenRigs, Monero, etc

20:41:58 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/516bc5950c6d97d0

20:42:29 williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.fluffypony.5:1f6d4e5752dae5fb67b0f36c9a8602478011f173e8805d71ad11c9cb70326a17

20:42:30 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for fluffypony from 3 to 5 with note: Met IRL, OpenRigs, Monero, etc

20:48:06 williamdunne: !up ascii_field

20:59:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143286 @ 0.00027208 = 38.9853 BTC [+] {2}

21:09:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108190 @ 0.00027363 = 29.604 BTC [+] {2}

21:10:34 ascii_field: https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event << apparently this still exists.

21:11:34 ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/VKDVerificationPGPCom.html << mega-l0l

21:12:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:15:22 ascii_field: 'Because the PGP Global Directory allows users to manage lost keys, it cannot use cryptographic mechanisms for verification. Instead, like mailing list servers and other public Internet services, the PGP Global Directory verifies a key by requiring a response to a verification email sent to each email address specified on the key.'

21:15:27 ascii_field: ahahahahahahaha.

21:16:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 183601 @ 0.00025953 = 47.65 BTC [-] {2}

21:18:51 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

21:21:22 trinque: holy shit that's rich

21:21:38 ascii_field: 'The PGP Global Directory is not a replacement for the PGP Web of Trust, but an additional mechanism to provide a global foundation for the PGP Web of Trust that enables opportunistic secure communications.'

21:21:40 ascii_field: tr0l0l0l!

21:22:14 *: ascii_field found this by looking at The List, of course

21:36:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70000 @ 0.00027177 = 19.0239 BTC [+]

21:37:00 ascii_field: https://twitter.com/pgpcorp << lulzy usgization

21:38:03 ascii_field: http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/STM/cmvp/documents/140-1/140sp/140sp1325.pdf << aaaand it was bought right after nist-ized

21:39:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24806 @ 0.00027177 = 6.7415 BTC [+]

21:40:09 trinque: !up Hasimir

21:40:31 trinque: Hasimir: register a key and I'll give you a 1 to self-voice in the future

21:45:57 Hasimir: cool, thanks

21:46:09 Hasimir: though I thought it had my key ... no matter

21:46:21 ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://blog.spaf.us/post/119499216803/two-security-researchers-break-rsa-4096-bit-keys << hard to even believe. someone ought to contact the man (assuming he exists in life) and ask, if he shat this out

21:47:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:47:22 Hasimir: the sole purpose of that directory key is to provide minimal (stress minimal) proof that the entity controlling an email address approves the key as theirs, no more

21:47:22 Hasimir: the other key (kind of) like it is the Hushmail DEMO key

21:47:23 Hasimir: anyone not using hush can get their key signed by that by registering their key through the hushtools.com site and later retrieving the signed copy

21:47:44 Hasimir: the other reason for using that, though, is to allow hush users to encrypt to you

21:47:53 trinque: !gettrust Hasimir

21:47:53 assbot: Trust relationship from user trinque to user Hasimir: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=trinque&to=Hasimir | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Hasimir/

21:48:00 Hasimir: which really surprises journalists

21:48:03 trinque: !rate Hasimir 1 new blood

21:48:03 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d1f2f90d631e4799

21:48:33 trinque: !v assbot:trinque.rate.Hasimir.1:ee9a4ae47c1dbfa21b646a35781ef846e516c54a915fa94d0a8160270a65b2f8

21:48:33 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for Hasimir with note: new blood

21:48:50 Hasimir: cheers :)

21:49:34 Pierre_Rochard: !up ascii_field

21:49:47 Hasimir: anyway, things like the directory key and the hush key are about the same as keybase.io

21:50:25 Hasimir: well, keybase might be a little more useful (but would be better if it did not try to manage private keys for anyone)

21:50:59 ascii_field: Hasimir: idk why anyone would want to pwn it, either. ask the fine folks who made the faux key for it..

21:51:31 Hasimir: well, current theory from werner is it's just a software bug

21:51:35 Hasimir: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2015-May/053644.html

21:52:35 ascii_field: Hasimir: lie, and beneath contempt.

21:52:35 ascii_field: Hasimir: examine the evidence for yourself. tell me it is a bug.

21:52:35 Hasimir: erm ... do you use gpg or something else to access openpgp functionality?

21:52:47 ascii_field: as, other meaning here

21:53:18 ascii_field: 'About 30 key with a valid key binding but with a partly duplicated

21:53:18 ascii_field: subkey where both have a valid key binding signature. Most likely a software bug.' << possible

21:53:49 ascii_field: and aha, they are already starting with 'That reminds if of a private discussion I had last autumn. Some guy

21:53:49 ascii_field: downloaded most RSA keys from a keyserver and tried to factor....'

21:53:52 ascii_field: just as i predicted

21:54:14 ascii_field: shitgnomes and their 'it didn't happen. if it happened, it doesn't matter. if it matters - one of -our- people did it first, of course!'

21:54:53 ascii_field: 'Incidentally, I met one of the other guys with a broken subkey at

21:54:53 ascii_field: LinuxCon and he told me that some folks complained that they can't encrypt to him. For other this was no problem, though.' << this part should surprise no one. the boobytrap works on -someone-.

21:55:00 ascii_field: mircea_popescu ^^^

21:55:29 Hasimir: he was copied in on the email directly

21:56:03 Hasimir: but has since said he's not interested (the follow up by DKG has that)

21:59:18 Hasimir: anyway, until the specific cause is identified, it can't be called either way

21:59:35 ascii_field: aaaand for some reason this only happens to interesting keys, aha

21:59:40 ascii_field: like debian signing key

21:59:41 ascii_field: and anwin

22:00:07 ascii_field: cosmic rays and memory corruption, apparently, can not only create valid self-sigs, but spare boring folks like you & i.

22:00:07 Hasimir: but what makes them interesting? just that it happened?

22:00:35 Hasimir: didn't spare all the boring folks

22:00:44 Hasimir: Charly Avital is on that list too

22:00:55 Hasimir: and he's a 70-year-old hobbyist

22:01:00 ascii_field: Hasimir: who said boring

22:01:07 ascii_field: what kind of hobbyist ?

22:01:20 Hasimir: just the local computer club kind

22:01:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101100 @ 0.00027177 = 27.4759 BTC [+]

22:01:46 Hasimir: and you said boring, like 7 lines up

22:02:14 ascii_field: Hasimir: you claimed that '70-year-old hobbyist' is necessarily boring

22:02:16 ascii_field: i - disagree.

22:02:53 Hasimir: oh, I see what you mean now ... so how are his keys more interesting than ours?

22:03:01 trinque: that would be the thing to answer

22:03:04 ascii_field: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2015-May/053644.html << koch claims that memory corruption can result in 1) corrupted key that is 2) has valid (!!!) signature. this is an insult to every intelligent reader and beneath contempt.

22:04:04 ascii_field: or perhaps he does not claim this, but passes off as plausible

22:04:04 Hasimir: specifically in relation to merging keys, not in general

22:04:04 ascii_field: he must think we are morons.

22:04:04 ascii_field: to even give this hypothesis the time of day, just imagine.

22:04:38 ascii_field: aaaaand 'we did this all, yes, believe us, we just never bothered to mention in public'

22:04:45 Hasimir: proving or disproving it would require merging multiple keys across a broad range of openpgp implementations and operating systems

22:05:16 ascii_field: Hasimir: the null hypothesis is not 'miracle happened.' this is not how it works.

22:05:47 Hasimir: yes, but it doesn't prove your malicious bastards theory either

22:06:44 Hasimir: no one on that list has said, "this is the answer" - they're discussing theories and you're attacking them for doing so, it seems a bit odd

22:07:00 ascii_field: Hasimir: you are asking me to believe that a large number of moduli, carefully crafted such that in mutilated form, they are factorable -and- have valid sigs, is something that could somehow happen by accident.

22:07:17 ascii_field: and that the presence of several 'interesting' names in the list, is also merely fortuitous.

22:07:56 ascii_field: and that the burden of proof somehow lies on the reasonable, literate folks who can see, plain as daylight, that this is as likely as a bullet spontaneously materializing inside lincoln

22:08:02 Hasimir: Phil Zimmermann isn't on that list, neither is RMS or even a former PM of my country (and yes, it was a real key)

22:08:09 ascii_field: mircea_popescu is also not on list

22:08:10 ascii_field: what of it.

22:08:22 ascii_field: no one said it includes whole planet's worth of 'cool kidz'

22:08:30 Hasimir: there are plenty of more interesting keys to target than that list

22:08:38 trinque: Hasimir: now who is speculating

22:08:44 ascii_field: and this is supposed to be an argument in favour of miracle ??!

22:09:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95021 @ 0.00027685 = 26.3066 BTC [+] {2}

22:09:19 Hasimir: trinque, true, but if the malicious bastards theory is the most viable answer: what is the motive?

22:09:28 trinque: that's not the question to ask

22:09:39 trinque: the question is "what do these keys have in common?"

22:09:40 Hasimir: what is then?

22:09:40 ascii_field: Hasimir: damned if i know. i - only see the bullet.

22:09:44 Hasimir: ah

22:09:49 trinque: and that isn't currently known

22:09:53 ascii_field: Hasimir: good number of german pirate party folks

22:09:56 trinque: great reason to keep digging though

22:09:57 ascii_field: suggests to me - BND.

22:10:04 Hasimir: trinque, indeed

22:10:07 ascii_field: (who else gives a phuck about german pirate party)

22:10:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82929 @ 0.00028027 = 23.2425 BTC [+]

22:12:31 Hasimir: ascii_field, we certainly don't, it's why we split from ppi

22:12:44 Hasimir: I need to script that, clearly

22:12:47 ascii_field: wai wat

22:12:49 ascii_field: who is 'we'

22:12:54 Hasimir: ppau

22:13:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99347 @ 0.00028027 = 27.844 BTC [+]

22:13:28 Hasimir: oh, did I forget to mention, I'm the treasurer of pirate party australia

22:13:40 ascii_field: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2015-May/053648.html

22:14:40 ascii_field: 'Is it possible that a keyserver running the old, buggy PKS code

22:14:40 ascii_field: (v. 0.9.something) mangled these keys?' << are they idiots or just pretending ?

22:14:40 ascii_field: mangled and signed with valid sig, aha

22:14:40 Hasimir: it's just a question, what's the problem with asking it?

22:14:45 *: Hasimir waits for the penny to drop ...

22:14:48 trinque: "teach the controversy" tactic

22:14:53 ascii_field: ^^

22:14:58 Hasimir: hardly

22:15:20 Hasimir: I can assure you that post in particular is from someone who just wants to know the answer

22:15:49 trinque: on the one hand, how something functions, on the other, what someone intends

22:16:03 ascii_field: someone who, charitable interpretation is, did not take even five minutes to think.

22:16:15 ascii_field: 'perhaps the bullet was always in lincoln, from birth'

22:16:21 trinque: the vast majority of responses I've seen to this are of the "not worth looking into" variety

22:16:21 jurov: what if the answer is no, keyserver can't ever produce valid sig in this case?

22:16:22 ascii_field: 'perhaps it fell from the moon'

22:16:29 trinque: not "this is why this is bullshit"

22:17:06 jurov: Hasimir, how can keyserver produce signatures of anything?

22:17:15 jurov: *valid* ones

22:17:40 Hasimir: jurov, it can't, but if the sig was already there, but other data got mangled, it might account for some things

22:17:50 jurov: what things?

22:18:11 trinque: if a factored subkey has a sig from the master key wtf

22:18:11 Hasimir: the lack of data indicating cipher prefs on a key

22:18:20 ascii_field: and why would a 'bug' affect ONLY (!!!) 1) moduli 2) m^d mod n 3) exponent, which is ALWAYS 281479271743489 after the transformation, regardless of what it originally was 3) ALL FIELDS ARE CORRECTLY SIZED

22:18:22 ascii_field: motherfuckers

22:18:26 trinque: I'm an idiot and I understand that much

22:18:29 Hasimir: such as in the case of the key dignork and I discussed earlier

22:19:50 trinque: !up ascii_field

22:19:56 ascii_field: ty trinque.

22:20:15 jurov: Hasimir, so I take some key, mangle "data indicating cipher prefs" and whatnot, and viola, valid signature without original key's owner knowledge?

22:20:40 Hasimir: no idea

22:20:46 ascii_field: and we are to believe that this happens by accident, with no other bits flipped. ever.

22:21:33 Hasimir: I never claimed to have answers, but you guys are locked into the "it must be a conspiracy" mindset and assuming any criticism is part of the conspiracy

22:21:57 ascii_field: incidentally, i just walked the totality of sks db looking for -all- rsa keys with pub-exponents equal to 281479271743489.

22:22:11 ascii_field: they are -all- in the set from the heuristic published on mircea_popescu's www.

22:22:20 jurov: Hasimir: you're too willing not to think about it and handwave it away

22:22:26 Hasimir: the weird pattern thing?

22:22:49 ascii_field: Hasimir: yes. you can write a proggy to create this type of key from any rsa pubkey you like.

22:22:49 Hasimir: jurov, not so, if that were the case I wouldn't be here discussing it

22:22:58 ascii_field: aaactually

22:23:21 ascii_field: Hasimir: please realize that so far you are setting off every possible alarm in my head, 'disinfo agent'

22:23:35 trinque: incidentally I don't recall anyone here making specific claims about who is behind this

22:23:44 ascii_field: Hasimir: also realize that we are talking about an experiment which -any- interested reader, at this point, could replicate.

22:23:50 ascii_field: data is public. the code, largely - also public.

22:23:53 Hasimir: trinque, except for the BND ...

22:24:20 ascii_field: BND is just a random guess of mine at present, based on the de pirate party thing

22:24:30 Hasimir: ok

22:25:09 ascii_field: but there are human fingerprints on it. take the 'bug' or 'cosmic ray' hypothesis to a home for retarded folks. nobody here is dumb enough to fall for it.

22:25:32 ascii_field: this goes for -all- the agents who read the logs.

22:26:00 Hasimir: alright, assume you're right then, what do they gain by doing this in a way that can be found by regular(-ish) geeks?

22:26:10 trinque: the gain may have already been had

22:26:17 trinque: who knows

22:26:23 ascii_field: Hasimir: look when it was done, and when found

22:26:27 Hasimir: in which case the target is on that list

22:26:33 ascii_field: we have a skeleton here, not fresh corpse

22:26:44 Hasimir: so 2010-11

22:26:48 Hasimir: or so

22:26:50 ascii_field: Hasimir: the target is almost certainly -not- on the list

22:26:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00028515 = 7.8416 BTC [+]

22:26:59 ascii_field: it is someone who -would have written- to one or more of the folks on the list.

22:27:17 Hasimir: ah, of course ...

22:27:34 Hasimir: hrm ...

22:27:54 Hasimir: so someone who already had all those keys in their keyring ...

22:28:23 ascii_field: Hasimir: the genuine keys, you mean ?

22:28:24 Hasimir: or at least all the names ...

22:28:28 Hasimir: yeah

22:28:53 ascii_field: for all we know, it is possible that on some pgp client the faux keys could replace the genuine ones if user ever 'synced' from sks

22:29:23 ascii_field: but this is secondary.

22:32:22 ascii_field: i very much get what the agents are trying to achieve, yes.

22:32:37 ascii_field: a soft fecal matter consensus that 'there is nothing worth looking into here, move along'

22:33:46 Hasimir: I think there's something worth looking into it until an answer is confirmed

22:34:02 ascii_field: that's more like it.

22:34:51 Hasimir: you realise that's not a change of attitude, right?

22:36:05 Hasimir: though logic and healthy skepticism requires questioning myself just as much, if not more so, than anyone else ...

22:37:34 BingoBoingo: Hasimir: You have to understand influence agents of various sorts have passed here before

22:37:42 BingoBoingo: !s ninjashogun

22:37:43 assbot: 1771 results for 'ninjashogun' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ninjashogun

22:37:55 ascii_field: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2014#827667

22:37:55 assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 16:47:05; asciilifeform: once you've been 'taught the controversy' - that is, convincing that there -even is- reasonable debate among informed people, on a particular subject - the lie becomes a kind of half-truth, automagically

22:38:10 mod6: <+ascii_field> 'Is it possible that a keyserver running the old, buggy PKS code ... << this is gotta be trolling, right??

22:38:29 trinque: plausibility of the lie is what's sought, not confirming it

22:38:32 Hasimir: BingoBoingo, somewhere I have a log of a PM with that guy who we later learned was the undercover agent going after silk road v1

22:38:38 Hasimir: so yeah, I get it

22:38:46 ascii_field: mod6: they are so accustomed to the illiteracy of the general public, that they are entirely unprepared for folks with half a clue.

22:38:54 ascii_field: let alone a full clue.

22:39:06 trinque: Hasimir: that would be an awesome thing to sign and deedbot-

22:39:10 ascii_field: ^

22:39:50 Hasimir: trinque, it includes him trying to lure me into discussing it and me giving him armchair legal advice

22:40:04 ascii_field: l0l

22:40:21 trinque: sounds hilarious; deedbot- it!

22:40:41 Hasimir: it is so much funnier with knowing who packt/c0dex is ...

22:41:03 Hasimir: I'll have a look at this deedbot thing then ...

22:41:17 ascii_field: Hasimir: incidentally, zimmerman is not on the list because he is an nsa asset in good standing. the 'silent circle' and multi-coloured phones idiocies are more than ample proof of this

22:41:29 ascii_field: usg -has- his genuine private key when it wants to.

22:41:45 ascii_field: -how- he turned - i haven't a clue

22:42:14 ascii_field: but to classify him as a genuine person may turn out to be dangerous for one's health (assuming that one is not asset himself)

22:42:17 Hasimir: well, I know nsa head-hunted at least one nai employee back when they owned pgp corp

22:42:27 Hasimir: that was Stephen Smalley

22:42:40 Hasimir: as far as I'm aware he's still working for NSA

22:42:53 ascii_field: 'by their fruit you will know them' (TM)

22:43:13 ascii_field: if zimmerman isn't in the pay of usg - he oughta be sending them a bill.

22:43:14 Hasimir: or by their selinux mailing list in this case

22:44:49 Hasimir: speaking of ancient arcane shit ... I also have a full copy of everything that the nsa had on radium.ncsc.mil prior to september 11

22:45:04 Hasimir: it includes the rainbow series

22:45:34 Hasimir: I should probably pop that onto an s3 instance

22:45:54 trinque: Hasimir: deedbot records the sha256 of gpg signed messages into the bitcoin blockchain

22:45:59 jurov: heh seems there will be leaks.b-a.link soon

22:46:14 Hasimir: trinque, oh my ...

22:46:30 Hasimir: trinque, and the docs are where?

22:46:30 jurov: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot

22:47:30 Hasimir: merci

22:47:38 Hasimir: it has to be clearsigned?

22:47:51 trinque: yeah

22:47:51 Hasimir: or just signed and ascii armoured?

22:48:14 trinque: Hasimir: like so http://deedbot.org/deed-2015-04-23-23-16-59.txt

22:49:57 Hasimir: does it look for the "BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE" header?

22:50:18 trinque: yes

22:50:25 scoopbot_revived: Lawsky Moves to Private Practice http://qntra.net/2015/05/lawsky-moves-to-private-practice/

22:50:40 trinque: Hasimir: either that or a public key

22:50:55 trinque: you have to feed him your public key first, and it checks that against what assbot knows about

22:51:03 Hasimir: ah, that explains why it can't be done with gpg -sa (a pity, that's a great way to avoid encoding errors)

22:51:14 trinque: I synced over keys from assbot once, but am not running it via cron yet

22:51:18 Hasimir: as in charset encoding errors

22:51:39 trinque: Hasimir: deedbot- has his own key in the WoT, rate him and leave feedback and I'll get to it

22:52:14 Hasimir: all it would take would be the same as allowing it to hash any pgp message

22:52:37 Hasimir: the output looks the same, but with -sa it's not encrypted, just signed

22:52:56 trinque: encoding hasn't been a problem yet

22:53:07 trinque: anyhow use it, see what works/doesn't, rate the guy

22:53:14 Hasimir: cool, will do

22:53:17 trinque: I tend to hack on it on the weekends

22:53:21 Hasimir: heh

22:53:36 Hasimir: I've got a lot of crap ... er, code like that

22:54:11 trinque: yup, I don't tend to stop coding, just swap which project

22:54:14 Hasimir: the pyme port was a weekend effort ... about a fortnight ago

22:55:00 Hasimir: but then I'm a fan of py3 (yes, yes, I'm a heretic too)

22:55:06 trinque: speaking of which

22:55:37 trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel ok, I'm loading up masamune

22:55:37 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:56:01 trinque: fucker got me with his "3d" CLIM, whatever that means

22:58:02 trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel http://dpaste.com/017XXRK.txt

22:59:02 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:02:19 Hasimir: deedbot- http://www.adversary.org/ben-key.asc

23:03:19 deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.

23:03:19 Hasimir: hmph

23:03:19 trinque: Hasimir: it has a few sites whitelisted

23:03:19 trinque: dpaste among them

23:03:19 Hasimir: ah

23:03:19 trinque: and needs the raw URL

23:03:19 trinque: .txt

23:04:50 trinque: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1QCX2EW.txt

23:05:50 deedbot-: imported: DB4724E6FA4286C92B4E55C4321E4E2373590E5D

23:05:50 trinque: donk

23:05:50 Hasimir: beat me to it ...

23:06:53 Hasimir: nice little api on dpaste too ...

23:11:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159350 @ 0.00027277 = 43.4659 BTC [-] {3}

23:12:03 Hasimir: oh wow, paypal just capitulated -- I'll be back later, I've got Treasurer duties to perform

23:12:51 trinque: cya

23:23:14 cazalla: Hasimir, from Melbourne eh?

23:23:48 Hasimir: cazalla, yep

23:24:06 Hasimir: ok, account drained, now I can relax a little ...

23:24:20 cazalla: to borrow from 8chan.. >>2015, still voting

23:25:41 Hasimir: I guess paypal take allegations of 14 counts of their breaching the electoral act seriously after all ...

23:27:06 cazalla: Hasimir, what do you gain by wasting time trying to change the politics down under?

23:27:12 Hasimir: I wish I could've seen their internal company panic, though

23:28:08 Hasimir: I've got a greater chance of influencing here than in the capital of the world ... I mean America

23:28:44 Hasimir: granted, not a huge chance

23:28:57 Hasimir: but still asliver of one

23:29:00 cazalla: meh i gave up voting years ago, don't even bother turning up whether it's local, state or federal election.. they can pay me for my time if they're that keen for my vote

23:29:49 trinque: last vote I cast was for Ron Paul in 2008, lol

23:29:54 trinque: ...I'm done.

23:31:13 cazalla: trinque, at least you have the option not to vote.. i usually find myself rediscovering my religious roots on election day which exempts me from wasting my time.. why Hasimir would volunteer to waste even more of his time though, i can't figure that one

23:32:11 trinque: compulsory voting, hilarious

23:32:12 trinque: bbl

23:32:40 Hasimir: well, technically it's compulsory getting your name ticked off, but most vote once they're there

23:32:56 cazalla: nah, it's not

23:33:45 cazalla: AEC send a please explain letter and that's the end of it

23:34:17 Hasimir: yeah, I missed a local council election once and got a similar thing

23:35:19 Hasimir: on the plus side, being more politically active than the vec makes it believable when I say I was too sick to walk to the polling station

23:35:28 cazalla: it's against my religious values to vote is already more than i should be required to tell them

23:35:42 Hasimir: that works?

23:36:23 cazalla: i've never had an issue with it or received a fine

23:36:45 Hasimir: nice

23:38:45 cazalla: and anyway, you don't need to vote in order to be politically active

23:41:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109150 @ 0.00027652 = 30.1822 BTC [+]

23:44:06 Hasimir: also true, but I'm addicted to the game

23:44:20 Hasimir: I know, I know ...

23:46:35 BingoBoingo: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/post/119214028699/the-best-example-that-why-do-chemists-wear-lab

23:50:27 cazalla: BingoBoingo, acid for blood?

23:55:23 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Looks like a mix of some sort didn't want to stay in its container