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Transcript for 22-03-2014, 1356 lines:

00:09:59 dexX7: bitcointa.lk appears to be actually quite useful. while btctalk is returning 502, bitcointa.lk is still available

00:10:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21346 @ 0.00093304 = 19.9167 BTC [-] {3}

00:17:07 benkay: if only you could mirror thermos' wallet.

00:17:26 benkay: ;;later tell bitcoinpete subject of creative marketing and cars, did you ever see the frisky dingo scion episode?

00:17:27 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:32:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00094024 = 7.945 BTC [+]

00:35:46 BCB: dexX7: bitcointa.lk is pretty fast too.

00:36:43 joecool: bitcointroll.org down?

00:37:04 joecool: !isitdown bitcointroll.org

00:42:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6186 @ 0.00094024 = 5.8163 BTC [+]

00:45:59 benkay: is that a thing?

00:46:01 benkay: ;;isitdown mpex.co

00:46:03 gribble: mpex.co is up

00:46:16 benkay: ;;isitdown bitcointalk.org

00:46:17 gribble: bitcointalk.org is up

00:47:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05899 = 0.5309 BTC [-]

00:47:50 radan: are there btc index funds?

00:48:06 benkay: not really, radan. what would they be indexing?

00:48:10 benkay: all the scamcoins?

00:48:19 benkay: all the scamstocks?

00:49:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 39 @ 0.0055584 = 0.2168 BTC [-]

00:49:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.059 = 0.59 BTC [+]

00:52:28 radan: idk

00:52:35 radan: I'm an engineer, not a banker

00:53:37 nubbins`: what sort of train do you run?

00:53:56 benkay: a choo choo twane

00:54:12 nubbins`: too tooo

00:54:32 benkay: nubbins`: many thanks for design consult

00:54:41 nubbins`: hey, my pleasure

00:55:14 benkay: ;;rate nubbins 1 designs and prints

00:55:14 gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.

00:55:20 benkay: d'oh

00:55:26 benkay: ;;gettrust nubbins

00:55:26 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user nubbins: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=nubbins | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins | Rated since: never

00:55:28 benkay: ;;gettrust nubbins`

00:55:29 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user nubbins`: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=nubbins%60 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins%60 | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013

00:55:56 benkay: ;;rate nubbins` 1 arts and prints

00:55:57 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user nubbins` has been recorded.

00:56:36 benkay: wow "excellent javascript skills"

00:56:41 nubbins`: i actually added nubbins without a ` to my highlight list because i was missing so many pings

00:57:27 nubbins`: and convinced nanotube to urlencode nicks so my rating page would display as nubbins%60 and not break clients

00:57:34 nubbins`: i tell ya, the things i do for this ` ;(

00:57:59 benkay: nanotube's generally amenable to not horrible ideas.

00:59:05 nubbins`: javascript, language of tomorrow

01:00:24 nubbins`: you might want to adjust the way footnotes are presented too

01:01:22 nubbins`: i.e. put the <sup> of the footnote number inside the <p> of the footnote text, so it doesn't put a huge break in there

01:04:41 benkay: javascript: it's totally lisp

01:05:00 benkay: ha yeah excellent idea, nubbins`, ty. fixing that's been on my agenda for a minute now

01:05:01 benkay: just.

01:05:03 benkay: exceedingly.

01:05:04 benkay: busy.

01:05:46 benkay: is there a non-horrible web analytics operation?

01:08:42 nubbins`: ehh

01:08:56 nubbins`: they're all a bit intrusive

01:09:10 nubbins`: google analytics is at least easy to implement, but people have strong opinions on it

01:09:30 benkay: starting with google.

01:09:47 nubbins`: lel yeah even without getting to the second word in the product name

01:10:04 benkay: having used it, it also sucks.

01:10:06 nubbins`: we used this one analytics package at my last job from -- i think -- adobe

01:10:11 benkay: shit operator, shit product.

01:10:20 benkay: any experience with piwik?

01:10:21 nubbins`: it took weeks to figure out what the fucking stats and graphs represented

01:10:23 nubbins`: nah

01:11:33 nubbins`: i avoided working with analytics stuff whenever possible

01:11:46 nubbins`: terrible voodoo, this

01:12:32 nubbins`: innocently add analytics to a website, next thing you're spending your weeks tweaking goal funnels

01:12:43 nubbins`: rather than making websites

01:13:00 benkay: let me tell you something, dear client, you must actually sell your product.

01:13:02 benkay: *rolls eyes*

01:13:16 benkay: right up there with "sometimes the best mobile strategy is no mobile strategy"

01:14:24 nubbins`: just went downstairs to reclaim and recoat some screens -- found two fresh ones already coated and ready to burn

01:14:29 nubbins`: fist pump

01:15:21 nubbins`: we've got a rush job lined up for tomorrow and we won't get the final content for the posters until like 4am ;0

01:16:03 benkay: ka yikes

01:35:52 benkay: where can I see hashrate stats etc for atc?

01:57:13 mike_c: http://atc.blockr.io/charts

02:00:10 cazalla: ;;seen ReutersEmily

02:00:10 gribble: ReutersEmily was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 58 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <ReutersEmily> same album as Mistadobalina also features a wonderful song called "What Is A Booty"

02:00:31 cazalla: i wonder if she will return

02:00:44 ThickAsThieves: I suspect she will

02:03:57 KRS-One: I love that song Mistadoblina lol its good

02:04:13 KRS-One: i think the singer is ice cube's cousin or something

02:05:18 KRS-One: .bait

02:05:19 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/fad73d5e78ea3c26f660be6f138ad4cf/tumblr_mktpdxNX9K1rck5gjo1_500.jpg

02:05:28 nubbins`: hmm.

02:05:42 KRS-One: Mmmm. Supple.

02:06:47 benkay: .bait

02:06:48 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/fad73d5e78ea3c26f660be6f138ad4cf/tumblr_mktpdxNX9K1rck5gjo1_500.jpg

02:06:58 benkay: lame that's the same one!

02:07:01 benkay: .bait

02:07:02 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/10adc4b8fdf8df350f710735e77dd657/tumblr_mtrj3kjrJA1sn9467o1_500.jpg

02:07:02 KRS-One: wtf

02:07:06 KRS-One: .bait

02:07:07 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/edefef99a885bc6d4df05e1ba445d0f0/tumblr_mosra75L8M1sv1aoso1_400.gif

02:07:15 KRS-One: the rng ok?

02:07:26 benkay: haw

02:07:29 KRS-One: someone needs to delete these black and whites..damn

02:11:10 cazalla: well, she didn't take the time to register her nick

02:18:21 BCB: ozbot, are they PM's girls

02:18:49 diametric: .bait

02:18:50 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdp5ekoox71rjbi2lo1_500.jpg

02:19:32 BCB: bait for what

02:22:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00093627 = 17.7891 BTC [-]

02:24:24 diametric: oh was showing my wife the command when she glanced over

02:24:50 asciilifeform: lol

02:27:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00093641 = 2.9965 BTC [+]

02:27:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.00324 = 0.1458 BTC [-]

02:29:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 55 @ 0.0032295 = 0.1776 BTC [-] {3}

02:32:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10296 @ 0.00093627 = 9.6398 BTC [-]

02:34:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00334999 = 0.1474 BTC [+] {2}

02:39:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 153 @ 0.00319985 = 0.4896 BTC [-] {4}

02:42:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07467777 = 0.3734 BTC [-]

02:51:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00093579 = 21.3154 BTC [-] {2}

02:58:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07467777 = 0.1494 BTC [-]

03:02:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10501 @ 0.00093472 = 9.8155 BTC [-] {2}

03:03:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.07475801 = 0.6728 BTC [+] {3}

03:17:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 155 @ 0.00315301 = 0.4887 BTC [-] {2}

03:19:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 803 @ 0.00315301 = 2.5319 BTC [-] {2}

03:23:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 27 @ 0.074989 = 2.0247 BTC [+]

03:24:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.075 = 0.675 BTC [+]

03:25:42 chetty: http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-03-21/russia-%E2%80%9Csanction-spiral%E2%80%9D-elegantly-spirals-out-control

03:26:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.075 = 0.75 BTC [+]

03:32:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00094066 = 47.3152 BTC [+] {3}

03:52:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00093976 = 14.1434 BTC [-]

03:53:40 Namworld: So anyway, yes, it seems the US-Russia clusterfuckshowfest is returning.

03:54:06 Namworld: There is a touch of Cold in the air.

03:58:44 dignork: Namworld, try reading the same text twice, it's FUD. Punchline is Jay Carney's phrase from two days ago

03:59:11 dignork: But nicely written, yes

04:01:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49700 @ 0.00094091 = 46.7632 BTC [+]

04:03:42 Namworld: Oh, that text doesn't matter. If it's FUD it doesn't matter either.

04:04:26 Namworld: I'm just referring to US-Russia bitching each other once again, which is actually happening.

04:04:45 Namworld: How serious it gets, not going to speculate on that.

04:09:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899999 = 0.118 BTC [-]

04:09:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200001 = 0.124 BTC [+]

04:13:54 KRS-One: Word is that if serious sanctions are imposed the Russian economy could crash. Jeez we need to work toward global economic growth and this isnt going to help. Hope at least it will save lives.

04:15:14 chetty: Its a global economy, all these guys are tied together, one economy doesn't go down alone

04:15:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 303 @ 0.00313706 = 0.9505 BTC [-] {12}

04:17:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 886 @ 0.00083169 = 0.7369 BTC [-] {10}

04:19:36 KRS-One: yeah that was more or less my point

04:20:41 dignork: KRS-One when did it happen that economic sanctions saved people lives?

04:23:06 dignork: US is dropping sanctions in hope that people will revolt, and overthrow Putin, surely it will save lives

04:26:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00315301 = 0.123 BTC [+]

04:29:24 asciilifeform: don't bring castor bean to u.s. uni: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/21/us/georgetown-student-ricin

04:31:33 KRS-One: dignork: not debating that..more or less a contrast to using military force..dont look too much into what i'm saying.

04:45:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00094103 = 21.4555 BTC [+] {3}

04:52:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00094127 = 6.4006 BTC [+]

04:53:51 usaoscoin: where is mirc popesku

04:55:01 B007: sleeping

05:05:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00625 = 0.1563 BTC [-]

05:15:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6621 @ 0.00094127 = 6.2321 BTC [+]

05:16:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00315046 = 3.1505 BTC [-] {4}

05:16:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00094177 = 19.5417 BTC [+] {4}

05:18:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00093932 = 15.4988 BTC [-] {2}

05:25:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 56 @ 0.0062889 = 0.3522 BTC [+] {2}

05:37:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19295 @ 0.00094231 = 18.1819 BTC [+]

06:02:03 dub: !ticker mp s.mpoe

06:02:03 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00082303 / 0.00090392 / 0.00096 (1146822 shares, 1,036.64 BTC), 7D: 0.00079506 / 0.00084304 / 0.00096 (6294202 shares, 5,306.29 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085078 / 0.00096 (29652343 shares, 25,227.87 BTC)

06:02:57 dub: !ticker havelock am1

06:02:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.59000000 / 0.59855272 / 0.62000000 (89 shares, 53.27119209 BTC), 7D: 0.59000000 / 0.61090914 / 0.63900000 (486 shares, 296.90184044 BTC), 30D: 0.45000000 / 0.57221105 / 0.68000000 (3538 shares, 2024.48269555 BTC)

06:13:02 Neil: .d

06:13:02 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 523 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.0779% in 3d 3h 45m 8s

06:13:30 Neil: Hmm, higher than that I think. The 16% is looking a little close.

06:19:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00094278 = 11.4548 BTC [+] {2}

06:47:32 cazalla: think you'll win Neil?

06:49:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.59380001 = 1.7814 BTC [+] {2}

06:52:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25550 @ 0.00094324 = 24.0998 BTC [+] {2}

06:55:04 cazalla: mircea_popescu: is there an archive of logs prior to 26-04-2013?

06:57:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.0009417 = 13.9372 BTC [-]

07:04:01 cryptoflood: Hey guys, Never really have chat here before just lurked, but I've been learning the ropes for a while now. Lost my last identity due to learning ignorance. Trying to build my WOT rating back up.

07:12:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.0009437 = 21.8467 BTC [+] {2}

07:22:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.0009393 = 7.4205 BTC [-]

07:31:09 chetty: hello cryptoflood this tends to be a quiet time of day here

07:32:00 chetty: cryptoflood, maybe spend some time reading the logs

07:50:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23966 @ 0.00094567 = 22.6639 BTC [+] {3}

07:57:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.62111065 = 3.1056 BTC [+] {4}

07:58:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.6213 = 1.8639 BTC [+]

08:02:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62149004 = 1.243 BTC [+] {2}

08:03:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.62164446 = 8.0814 BTC [+] {2}

08:04:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.075 = 0.15 BTC [+]

08:05:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62158008 BTC [-]

08:06:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62169999 BTC [+]

08:07:29 jurov: cazalla, kako said he has them but they need cleaning up

08:07:49 jurov: (i do have some such too)

08:12:00 KRS-One: .bait

08:12:01 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15jylCHi81qf11uso1_500.jpg

08:24:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 74 @ 0.07206758 = 5.333 BTC [-] {5}

08:42:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00094098 = 11.3388 BTC [-]

08:48:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 479 @ 0.00313008 = 1.4993 BTC [-] {2}

09:00:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07200269 = 1.152 BTC [-] {4}

09:02:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00094098 = 11.1977 BTC [-]

09:09:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00094135 = 18.6858 BTC [+] {2}

09:19:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094491 = 16.158 BTC [+] {2}

09:32:20 mircea_popescu: soo what's new.

09:35:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` maybe just BE nubbins` without a nubbin ?

09:38:46 mircea_popescu: motherfucker twitter changed profile layout

09:49:36 cazalla: jurov: are they online anywhere?

09:50:15 cazalla: nice timing mircea_popescu, do you have logs prior to 26-04-2013?

09:50:35 mircea_popescu: logs of what ?

09:51:07 cazalla: sorry, #bitcoin-assets

09:51:18 mircea_popescu: a

09:51:21 mircea_popescu: yeah

09:52:05 cazalla: available online for public consumption?

09:52:36 mircea_popescu: well no inasmuch as they

09:52:38 mircea_popescu: 're my logs

09:52:52 cazalla: fair enough

09:52:55 mircea_popescu: you'll have to bug kako, and probably volunteer a lot of work

09:53:22 mircea_popescu: i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy

10:07:28 cazalla: perhaps volunteer work is an opportunity to earn some wot

10:08:37 dnivi3: Anyone bought Cryptorush shares?

10:10:23 mircea_popescu: dnivi3 nobody sane.

10:11:33 mircea_popescu: cazalla this is a point.

10:11:39 dnivi3: Seems like I jumped on the train a bit too early thinking that the price would rise (which it did for a little while). I am dumping my shares, can't justify the investment with regards to their shitty dividen.

10:12:00 mircea_popescu: dividends aren't really the chief consideration in investments.

10:13:14 dnivi3: Sure, but their business does not seem to thrive anyways so I'd rather pull out. What do you consider the chief consideration?

10:14:32 VanCleef: i wish there was something decent to invest in

10:14:47 mircea_popescu: Untermyer: Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?

10:14:47 mircea_popescu: Morgan: No, sir. The first thing is character.

10:14:47 mircea_popescu: Untermyer: Before money or property?

10:14:47 mircea_popescu: Morgan: Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it ? a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom.

10:16:08 dnivi3: @micea_popescu: OK, what is that supposed to tell me? @VanCleef: there are some decent funds on Havelock, for example Peta Mine.

10:16:25 VanCleef: isn't petamine just a PMB tho?

10:16:33 VanCleef: therefore bad?

10:17:01 dnivi3: PMB? Not sure what that means, to be honest. Care to explain?

10:17:34 VanCleef: perpetual mining bond

10:18:19 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/

10:18:20 ozbot: The problem with PMBs, ie “Perpetual Mining Bonds” pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

10:18:20 VanCleef: so like each share locks you into a hashrate not a percentage of the companies total hashing power

10:18:35 mircea_popescu: dnivi3 so give yourself time, lots to learn.

10:18:40 dnivi3: Ah, that's true. Hmm, interesting.

10:18:43 VanCleef: thus being worth less as the network difficulty goes up?

10:19:42 dnivi3: Yes, indeed. However, it is not the case though if the mining operation is intending to reinvest (something which PETA intends to do).

10:19:56 mircea_popescu: how is it not true ?

10:20:30 dnivi3: They have a reinvestment plan for the future, to increase their hashrate. 35% of all profit goes to reinvestment for hash power.

10:20:30 B007: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-21/sec-bitcoin-shadow-banking-levitt-on-n-dot-y-dot-probe-compliance

10:20:31 ozbot: SEC-Bitcoin, Shadow Banking, Levitt on N.Y. Probe: Compliance - Businessweek

10:20:45 B007: made it into my inbox via google alerts on bitcoin

10:21:08 mircea_popescu: dnivi3 so ?

10:21:27 mircea_popescu: i have a bottle of coca cola. 35% of what i drink goes into buying more coca cola

10:21:33 mircea_popescu: therefore my bottle of coca cola can never be empty.

10:22:05 mircea_popescu: what is this, logic 101 for people that haven't mastered the arrow in flight "paradox" ?

10:23:25 B007: anyway time for bed

10:25:42 dnivi3: I am not quite sure how the arrow in flight paradox relates to this.

10:27:48 mircea_popescu: the fact that they reinvest some portion of the dividends is completely irrelevant.

10:27:51 mircea_popescu: but completely.

10:27:58 mircea_popescu: if they paid out that 35% you could reinvest it yourself.

10:28:11 mircea_popescu: and it'd even be better, because you wouldn't be locked into whatever braindamage they come up with

10:28:26 mircea_popescu: so in this sense, you're just getting 100% dividend, except a 35% portion of it is actually worth less

10:28:29 mircea_popescu: through being restricted.

10:35:23 dnivi3: Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I gotta go!

10:37:03 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/ if anyone feels mathematically inclined

10:37:04 ozbot: So here’s a problem for you… pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

10:37:51 chetty: A workbook handed out to seventh grade students in Springfield, Ill., states that all Americans must register their firearms in order to have a Second Amendment right.

10:39:27 mircea_popescu: derp

10:39:34 mircea_popescu: you know what springfield is like ?

10:39:51 VanCleef: In an echo of the Cold War, MasterCard and Visa have stopped processing payments by some Russian banks after the United States issued sanctions over Russia's recent annexation of Crimea.

10:40:08 VanCleef: Putin the next C.E.O of bitcoin

10:41:41 wao-ender: yeah, I read it, would be nice.

10:41:46 HeySteve: Putin tried to get a regional processing centre for credit cards several years back

10:42:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.0061 = 0.1159 BTC [-] {2}

10:43:23 samson_: WTF has Crimea got to do with the US ?

10:43:32 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi5vBxHCcAIfquU.png

10:43:56 VanCleef: usa just being sooks

10:44:33 VanCleef: lol mircea

10:48:28 VanCleef: http://imgur.com/t4vFhsc

10:48:29 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

10:58:43 VanCleef: more i think aboutit my god that whatssapp deal was such a bad buy

11:00:04 mircea_popescu: at least you're not in facebook's shoes

11:02:51 VanCleef: i would rather buy wechat for alot cheaper

11:05:02 FabianB: i don't think tencent would ever sell

11:06:28 wao-ender: let's use telegram instead of whatsapp

11:07:01 VanCleef: heh iunintalled whatsapp already

11:09:14 mircea_popescu: someone actually had it installed ?!

11:11:35 *: wao-ender dont

11:11:54 chetty: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/21/White-House-Leads-Liberal-Media-In-Matt-Drudge-Attack

11:12:19 VanCleef: :P

11:13:13 chetty: no wonder people are so clueless about finance

11:39:11 MisterE: http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-03-21/russia-%E2%80%9Csanction-spiral%E2%80%9D-elegantly-spirals-out-control

11:39:26 MisterE: So I guess if you'e in a fund that invests in a Russian company you could get screwed f that the Russian holdings are sanctioned...

11:39:47 MisterE: where is the url bot?

11:40:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34558 @ 0.00094047 = 32.5008 BTC [-]

11:40:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 9324 @ 0.00310323 = 28.9345 BTC [-] {24}

11:45:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8272 @ 0.00093849 = 7.7632 BTC [-]

11:49:22 Mats_cd03: Zerohedge is poorly disguised dog shiy

12:03:15 kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy < like a year of bullshit isnt enough

12:03:29 mircea_popescu: also a point.

12:04:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1230 @ 0.0031 = 3.813 BTC [-]

12:06:37 mircea_popescu: for bingoboingo and whoever else may care : http://fraudsters.com/2014/awstats-and-stuff/

12:08:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.0031 = 0.775 BTC [-]

12:09:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 520 @ 0.0031 = 1.612 BTC [-]

12:20:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00094091 = 17.548 BTC [+] {3}

12:36:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00094224 = 8.9513 BTC [+]

12:41:27 kakobrekla: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524429.msg5837265#msg5837265

12:41:29 ozbot: Let's talk about BTC.SX and MT.GOX

12:41:48 kakobrekla: at times like these, ban hurts.

12:52:01 Namworld: My antivirus considers Google's DoubleClick cookie as an infected files and keeps deleting it.It classify snooping cookies as viruses.

12:52:03 ThickAsThieves: surely you are a man with IPs at your disposal

12:52:08 Namworld: It seems an apt classification.

12:54:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093849 = 0.9385 BTC [-]

12:58:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093913 = 0.9391 BTC [+]

13:13:28 kakobrekla: i dont think its even ip restricted

13:13:58 kakobrekla: but i would need to register a sock, thats the issue

13:14:55 kakobrekla: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526064.0

13:14:56 ozbot: We have decided to donate 100btc to those who lost funds from mt gox

13:19:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07100125 = 0.426 BTC [-] {2}

13:25:11 ThickAsThieves: maybe make a sock that isnt a sock, like call yourself Bitcoin Assets

13:25:44 ThickAsThieves: or hell, kakobrekla2

13:26:58 kakobrekla: mebbe, ill see how bad the itch gets

13:30:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61999997 BTC [-]

13:31:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61999998 = 3.72 BTC [+]

13:33:26 jborkl: That is very generous of them

13:33:32 jborkl: :/

13:34:15 the20year: how thoughtful

13:37:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00093913 = 14.8383 BTC [+] {2}

13:42:49 Neil: .d

13:42:49 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 469 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.4934% in 2d 19h 13m 57s

13:46:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093984 = 0.9398 BTC [+]

13:48:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92517 @ 0.000938 = 86.7809 BTC [-] {6}

13:56:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00093452 = 2.3363 BTC [-]

14:13:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27433 @ 0.00093586 = 25.6734 BTC [+] {2}

14:15:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00094245 = 28.6034 BTC [+] {3}

14:27:54 mircea_popescu: In response to the argument that Title III provides no explicit provision for disclosures under the present facts, the court noted that "[Title III] does not prohibit all that it does not permit".

14:28:06 mircea_popescu: teh us pseudolegal system is such lol by now.

14:31:55 chetty: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586765/Breaking-News-Defiant-Ukranian-commander-orders-outnumbered-men-stand-ground-expect-engage-Russian-troops-surrounding-military-base.html

14:34:11 artifexd: I'm having trouble with http://fraudsters.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/ If there was any bias in the coin, wouldn't that bias show up as a favoring towards heads in the end results?

14:35:00 artifexd: And if there was no bias in the coin, a straight forward flip would be good enough.

14:40:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00094232 = 7.2559 BTC [-]

14:41:09 mircea_popescu: artifexd http://fraudsters.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/#comment-98648

14:42:16 artifexd: ohstopityou.jpg

14:42:23 mircea_popescu: :)

14:43:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6191 BTC [-]

14:46:17 artifexd: I recoded my test for that change and the results are an even distribution regardless of flip bias. Cool.

14:47:00 artifexd: Unless the bias is 100%, in which case there is no entropy to tap so you can't get any entropy out.

14:49:30 mircea_popescu: artifexd if the bias is 100% you'll discard all sets.

14:50:00 mircea_popescu: in computational terms, the algo doesn't crash, it just never finishes.

14:50:23 artifexd: True. But a generator that never generates can hardly be called a generator.

14:50:41 mircea_popescu: depends if you're discussing it as an engineer or as a computer scientist.

14:50:48 mircea_popescu: neumann was the later, and in that context yes it can.

14:51:06 mircea_popescu: after all, it is generatING.

14:51:30 chetty: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjSS03aCcAANewV.png

14:51:34 artifexd: That strikes me as amusing

14:51:41 mircea_popescu: well it should, because it is :D

14:51:52 mircea_popescu: chetty bwahaha

14:51:54 chetty: they got this wrong, the bitcoin should be the bite

14:52:03 mircea_popescu: or the wall.

14:53:40 artifexd: If anyone wants it, here is the code for the Newman fair-izing test: http://dpaste.com/hold/1752001/

14:54:05 artifexd: Change line 9 to vary the bias to your hearts content.

14:59:24 mircea_popescu: nice.

14:59:35 mircea_popescu: but it is neumann you know

14:59:49 artifexd: That may explain why google failed me

15:00:01 mircea_popescu: whoa you don't know the greatest mathematician that ever lived ?

15:00:06 mircea_popescu: defo must read up on him.

15:00:24 mircea_popescu: ;;google John von Neumann

15:00:25 gribble: John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann; Von Neumann architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture; John von Neumann - CS Dept. NSF-Supported Education ...: http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/VonNeumann.html

15:02:29 artifexd: I did discover him in my googling. I didn't expect you to misspell his name though so I though you were talking about someone else

15:02:38 artifexd: *thought

15:03:02 mircea_popescu: i misspelled ?!

15:03:19 artifexd: "Ok, so did you come up with Newman’s method or not ?"

15:03:53 mircea_popescu: well HOW EASY do you want me to makle it ;/

15:04:57 artifexd: I only expect you to be you.

15:05:06 mircea_popescu: on my better days.

15:05:15 mircea_popescu: unrelatedtly, this may be lulzy : http://financiallyregulated.com/2013/10/21/man-who-mocked-the-sec-in-his-blog-has-been-indicted/

15:06:05 nubbins`: so pascale's art school was "donated" a bunch of inks from a local screenprint shop

15:06:12 nubbins`: which they in turn donated to us

15:06:27 nubbins`: about a third of them were usable, the rest (10-15 gallons) aren't fit for use

15:06:44 nubbins`: brought em out to the dump today, and they wouldn't take them because it's commercial waste

15:07:00 mircea_popescu: what was the problem with them ?

15:07:05 nubbins`: so now we have 15 gallons of "donated" ink that's gonna cost us $2-300 to dispose of

15:07:13 nubbins`: really old, starting to separate

15:07:28 mircea_popescu: you can probably reemusify them if you have an old washing machine

15:07:39 nubbins`: they're plastisol inks, PVC particles in emulsion

15:07:44 mircea_popescu: so ?

15:08:06 nubbins`: so uh

15:08:11 nubbins`: nothing i guess

15:08:15 mircea_popescu: do you have an old washing machine /

15:08:16 nubbins`: either way, old inks break down

15:08:20 nubbins`: and no, we don't

15:08:26 mircea_popescu: wel lthen you're stuck.

15:08:39 nubbins`: you can take a quart of old ink and mix it with a power drill for an hour and it's still shit

15:08:44 nubbins`: stuck indeed

15:08:54 mircea_popescu: not that way, that doesn't work.

15:08:55 nubbins`: that's what we get for taking donations without inspecting em first

15:08:58 nubbins`: lesson learned

15:09:22 mircea_popescu: you put it in the tumbler, stuff the tumbler with rags or packing peanuts or w/e to keep the cans flush to the side, then hook it to dry for a while.

15:09:25 mircea_popescu: it'll sort them out.

15:10:15 nubbins`: you're a complicated man

15:10:22 mircea_popescu: what did i do now

15:10:46 nubbins`: impressed me with your knowledge of random things

15:10:49 nubbins`: :o

15:10:52 mircea_popescu: lol

15:11:03 nubbins`: either way, fuck these inks

15:11:09 mircea_popescu: well that also works.

15:11:12 nubbins`: unfortunately i can't even sneak em into the trash

15:11:22 nubbins`: well. not with a clear conscience

15:11:23 mircea_popescu: you can just pour them into the toilet, one ounce a day

15:11:26 mircea_popescu: take you a month or so

15:11:27 nubbins`: noooo

15:11:30 nubbins`: the seabirds

15:11:42 mircea_popescu: so you time it out

15:11:57 mircea_popescu: you know, like spacing it out but over time.

15:12:00 nubbins`: heh

15:12:10 nubbins`: well, i've gotta get to printing

15:12:14 nubbins`: try to turn this shit day around

15:12:17 mircea_popescu: noooo

15:12:19 mircea_popescu: the seabirds!

15:13:34 nubbins`: fun fact, we dumped raw sewage into the atlantic until 2 years ago

15:15:44 mircea_popescu: http://www.sehn.org/Endocrine_Disruption.html << that's the plasticiser, btw

15:15:45 ozbot: Science & Environmental Health Network - Ecological Medicine: Essays

15:15:51 mircea_popescu: probably some phtalate ester or other

15:16:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15246 @ 0.00094232 = 14.3666 BTC [-]

15:17:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00305112 = 0.1098 BTC [-] {3}

15:21:41 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 < check it out, jimothy's being upstaged.

15:21:43 ozbot: Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. All say aye.., say AYE, "AYE!"

15:28:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.003075 = 0.1015 BTC [+]

15:35:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.0710566 = 1.0658 BTC [+] {4}

15:36:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07100124 = 1.42 BTC [-] {2}

15:47:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28304 @ 0.00094257 = 26.6785 BTC [+] {2}

15:54:45 only: they will soon come up with bitcoin: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/53673/how-does-the-authentication-in-the-new-uk-1-coin-work

15:55:35 mircea_popescu: for some values of soon

15:55:45 artifexd: https://leastauthority.com/blog/BLAKE2-harder-better-faster-stronger-than-MD5.html#id1

15:55:46 ozbot: Least Authority

15:55:46 artifexd: relevant quote "the Bitcoin network is performing enough computation to generate SHA-1 collisions every 131 minutes!"

15:56:07 mircea_popescu: luckily the uk pound isn't worth the hassle.

15:57:24 only: 45m+ 1 pound coin fakes in circulation

15:58:44 mircea_popescu: that's almost enough to start a fake bitcoin mining farm

15:59:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.42564200 BTC to 4`100 shares, 59162 satoshi per share

15:59:37 mircea_popescu: http://financiallyregulated.com/2011/11/21/strips-investor-stripped-of-his-investment-dignity/?relatedposts_hit=1&relatedposts_origin=3489&relatedposts_position=1

15:59:46 mircea_popescu: this guy should be covering bitcoin corps.

16:01:17 ThickAsThieves: Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. So let's discuss!

16:01:18 only: lol

16:01:52 mircea_popescu: guy's worried that all his shady work promoting various scams may land him in hot water.

16:02:01 mircea_popescu: which... who knows, always a possibility.

16:02:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share

16:03:04 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 118000 @ 0.0109775 = 1295.345 BTC [-]

16:03:48 mircea_popescu: $depth x.idiff.jun

16:03:49 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: []

16:03:50 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['127000 @ 0.0109775']

16:04:03 mircea_popescu: look at that, we're trading.

16:04:05 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 5000 @ 0.0109775 = 54.8875 BTC [-]

16:04:39 ThickAsThieves: wow

16:05:06 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 100132 @ 0.0109775 = 1099.199 BTC [-] {2}

16:05:41 mircea_popescu: hm

16:05:42 mircea_popescu: .d

16:05:42 ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 454 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.2920% in 2d 17h 27m 5s

16:05:54 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.15**7

16:05:55 gribble: 11.305084492

16:06:01 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.125**7

16:06:01 gribble: 9.69296371937

16:06:07 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 26868 @ 0.0109775 = 294.9435 BTC [-] {2}

16:06:11 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.145**7

16:06:11 gribble: 10.9654721643

16:06:24 mircea_popescu: so 14.5% till june

16:08:45 mircea_popescu: $vwap x.idiff.jun

16:08:46 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN 1 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 7 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 30 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575

16:09:10 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 25393 @ 0.0109775 = 278.7517 BTC [-]

16:09:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00326812 = 0.4902 BTC [+] {6}

16:11:16 mircea_popescu: suddenly that 16% bet appears a lot more interesting.

16:11:43 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.18**6

16:11:43 gribble: 11.4731051504

16:11:48 asciilifeform: re: hash algos: one could argue that any hash function whose defeat (preimage, etc.) wouldn't sink something major (e.g. btc) isn't worth using.

16:11:49 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.16**6

16:11:49 gribble: 10.354684372

16:12:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these days, yes.

16:12:33 asciilifeform: naturally this only applies to cryptographic hashes, rather than checksums

16:12:38 mircea_popescu: ten-twenty years ago there was nothing really major that depended on them so.

16:12:51 asciilifeform: right. but we're in today.

16:12:55 mircea_popescu: we are.

16:13:11 mircea_popescu: most experts are over 50 and don't hang out in the right places, so

16:13:21 mircea_popescu: one can prolly make a living for years just out of that observation.

16:14:22 asciilifeform: i still think it possible that there are competent people, but 'dark matter' because why should they talk.

16:14:36 mircea_popescu: because it's fun, and human.

16:14:56 asciilifeform: no argument

16:16:57 artifexd: For some people, talking is not fun. Or maybe it is, but writing code is orders of magnitude more fun than writing english.

16:17:18 mircea_popescu: possibly because they never bothered to learn english properly.

16:17:40 artifexd: It isn't about the medium. It's about the audience.

16:18:03 mircea_popescu: i never heard of a programmer that judged the languages on the basis of the machines involved.

16:18:11 kakobrekla: alert('whats wrong with the audience here?');

16:18:16 mircea_popescu: "javascript is really cool, it works on every shitty laptop out there"

16:18:50 mircea_popescu: as opposed to "lisp is crap, they only run it on shit"

16:18:51 artifexd: The audience of english is other humans, generally. The audience of code is the machine.

16:19:03 mircea_popescu: the audience is abstracted in either case.

16:19:06 assbot: hey!

16:19:31 mircea_popescu: that's trhe very point of having a language : abstracting the audience.

16:19:47 mircea_popescu: otherwise you'd just carry a soldering iron everywhere.

16:20:48 Ghaleon: solid point

16:21:02 mircea_popescu: and i can't even say it in c++

16:21:26 mircea_popescu: because.... wait for it... c++ IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH :D

16:21:28 Ghaleon: as programmers we must rise up now and be better bridges between humans and machines, money is the lifeblood of human energy, thus we must improve as ambassardors

16:21:34 artifexd: Success in communicating via code is much easier to measure than in english. "Did it compile?" vs "Did he/she understand me?"

16:21:56 mircea_popescu: artifexd if you're limiting yourself to successes you can measure you're more likely to become obese than get laid.

16:21:56 Ghaleon: hence the typical irc, leet jerk attitude is bout to be extinct

16:22:15 asciilifeform: 'Did it compile?' << i should hope that you are joking re: this being a standard of success in your work

16:22:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.07148303 = 2.1445 BTC [+] {8}

16:22:32 kakobrekla: but 'did it compile' check is equal to 'did i make any typos' not 'is the code fucking shit'

16:22:34 mircea_popescu: poor artifexd ended up in a shitspot

16:22:53 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla stop fuding and slandering bitcointalk CEOs.

16:23:02 asciilifeform: see also herr dijkstra's aphorism re: bugs

16:23:02 kakobrekla: what did i do nao

16:23:11 mircea_popescu: the time to be kakobrekla'd is never! say aye!

16:23:12 artifexd: Standard of success? No. Measurement? Sure. "Yes compile" is further along than "No compile"

16:23:48 mircea_popescu: Ghaleon as you approach mastery you'll notice the leet asshole is an epic bridge builder type.

16:24:39 Ghaleon: mp, yes, the challenge is finding that person who can build the epic bridges and present the right face... without going insane for long enough

16:24:47 Ghaleon: this community is doing an awesomejob

16:24:55 Ghaleon: your letter to sec was an example of that

16:25:06 Ghaleon: respectable, legally sound, defiant.. yet friendly

16:25:08 mircea_popescu: but im the elitist asshole to end all elitist assholes.

16:25:11 Ghaleon: people can look up to that

16:25:20 Ghaleon: join the club brah

16:25:24 mircea_popescu: lol

16:25:57 mircea_popescu: i suppose "leet jerk" 8======D "elitist asshole"

16:26:07 mircea_popescu: and by that penis i have represented a proper equality.

16:26:15 Ghaleon: lolz

16:26:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 48 @ 0.62805964 = 30.1469 BTC [+] {11}

16:26:48 asciilifeform: |===D - sapper's shovel?

16:26:59 Ghaleon: we had a great article about bit coin archetypes before

16:27:24 Ghaleon: bit coins greatest value is that it is getting people to ask "what is money really" ?

16:27:32 Ghaleon: henry Ford's vision is coming to pass

16:27:47 Ghaleon: as things move forward we will be able to ask "how do people use money really?"

16:27:55 Ghaleon: and get an answer thanks to the blockchain

16:28:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.63 = 10.08 BTC [+]

16:29:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-02-2014#514471 in loving reference to that

16:29:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00598292 = 0.3829 BTC [-] {5}

16:29:34 Ghaleon: i have a feeling that carl jung's archetypal mode.. a consdesnded version will give the right person a keen edge going forward

16:30:36 mircea_popescu: "Gilliams received $4 million from Morfopoulous and $1 million from another investor for investment in the STRIPS program. As evidence that the funds were so invested, Gilliams created ?a screenshot from Bloomberg Finance showing $1 million worth of U.S. Treasury STRIPS, which Gilliams represented was proof that he had purchased Treasury STRIPS.? A screenshot? He must have been in the virtual office that day. A

16:30:36 mircea_popescu: screen shot is not a confirmation. And nobody investing foundation funds should think it is."

16:31:11 mircea_popescu: " He also ?generated a document, which he supplied to a representative of the investors, in which he purported to show a series of $5 million trades, as well as over $100,000 in purported profits on trades during September and October 2010, [but] this document was false.? Anyone can generate a professional looking document on their computer."

16:31:23 mircea_popescu: Gilliams lives an extravagant lifestyle, much of which is depicted in videos filmed by videographers he hired to follow him around. The videos appear on ?TLG TV,? which purports to be some sort of reality TV show starring him. A host of such videos still remain on YouTube, although some were deleted from Vimeo. One such video apparently depicted Gillaims ?posing with stacks of money on his lap.?

16:31:30 mircea_popescu: apparently they didn't have lambos in fiat yet.

16:32:06 mircea_popescu: (for the rap fans among us : this is some friend of p. diddy's)

16:32:10 asciilifeform: no shortage of trambos though.

16:32:18 asciilifeform: (trabambos?)

16:33:08 mircea_popescu: tra' bimbos!

16:33:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00594301 = 0.1189 BTC [-] {2}

16:33:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.63011 = 1.2602 BTC [+]

16:37:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07589959 = 0.3036 BTC [+]

16:40:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07589959 = 0.4554 BTC [+] {2}

16:43:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07589958 = 0.2277 BTC [-]

16:50:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00094254 = 2.8276 BTC [-]

16:54:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00307001 = 0.1535 BTC [-] {4}

16:56:36 benkay: good morning!

16:56:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 178 @ 0.00555884 = 0.9895 BTC [+] {2}

16:59:25 mircea_popescu: http://www.kdnuggets.com/2014/03/how-deep-learning-analytics-mimic-mind.html

16:59:26 ozbot: How Deep Learning Analytics Mimic the Mind

16:59:30 mircea_popescu: heh.

17:02:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.0726 = 2.178 BTC [-] {2}

17:05:53 mircea_popescu: Arden Elizabeth @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Improvement, Part I: Grit Is More Important Than Talent (link)

17:05:53 mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu RT @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Satisfaction, Part I: Girth Is More Important Than ta Length (link)

17:06:13 mircea_popescu: i wonder if she takes it well.

17:08:35 benkay: re chetty's zerohedge sanction link "Carney...said. 'I wouldn't, if I were you, invest in Russian equities right now, unless you're going short.'". << is this the great mechanisms of war ratcheting one step further? is the US seriously biting off an economic war with Russia?

17:13:38 chetty: benkay, it sure looks like an economic war is a brewing. It will crash the whole world economy if they keep it up

17:14:58 asciilifeform: 'for many years, most artificial neural network research was focused on networks with a single layer of processing.' wat. !111?111!

17:15:30 asciilifeform: http://www.csulb.edu/~cwallis/artificialn/History.htm

17:16:05 asciilifeform: minksy & papert showed that single-layer NN cannot even learn 'XOR'. this touched off the first 'ai winter.'

17:16:10 asciilifeform: i thought everyone knew this.

17:16:14 ThickAsThieves: http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20140318.pdf

17:16:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00094278 = 5.421 BTC [+]

17:16:37 ThickAsThieves: http://i.imgur.com/AQTiDmB.jpg

17:18:01 asciilifeform: (it's a freshman homework-level proof incidentally)

17:18:04 ThickAsThieves: http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl236.aspx

17:18:05 ozbot: Untitled 1

17:19:21 asciilifeform: incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni

17:19:40 asciilifeform: we had a homework of evolving (genetic algo) - rather than, as usually done, 'training' a small NN

17:19:57 asciilifeform: to solve very simple arithmetic problems

17:20:40 asciilifeform: when using '/dev/random' rng (of the time) the bugger took several hours to converge

17:21:10 asciilifeform: but when using a turd downloaded from ? (was it lavarand? or john walker's geiger? wish i remembered) it took minutes.

17:21:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32984 @ 0.0009431 = 31.1072 BTC [+] {3}

17:22:17 asciilifeform: if you don't adequately 'massage' the state space, you get miserable evolution.

17:22:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 522 @ 0.00307122 = 1.6032 BTC [-] {7}

17:25:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00305318 = 3.0532 BTC [-] {9}

17:25:43 bounce: so god's grace is in the quality of your RNG?

17:26:08 asciilifeform: nothing mystical about it. poor rng, for the application described above, is like watered gasoline

17:26:15 asciilifeform: objectively poor performance.

17:26:25 asciilifeform: note that this anecdote had nothing to do with cryptography.

17:26:36 asciilifeform: (the usual place where people concern themselves with rng quality)

17:26:49 asciilifeform: (the other being - gambling)

17:27:26 asciilifeform: a shoddy rng ends up 'dwelling' in some portions of the state space

17:29:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0589876 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2}

17:31:39 asciilifeform: re: NNs: their present-day niche obscurity is well-deserved. try using it for any application with regular novel inputs, and notice how it 'forgets.'

17:31:54 decimation: asciilifeform you mentioned in the past that you did not care for mechanical hard drives. Does this mean you put a flash drive in your Libretto?

17:32:03 asciilifeform: (recognition problems with fixed sets, like OCR, work great)

17:32:09 asciilifeform: decimation: as a matter of fact, i did.

17:32:22 decimation: how did you adapt to the ancient ide connectors?

17:33:18 asciilifeform: decimation: you can get PATA SSD drives.

17:33:36 decimation: for a premium, as I recall :)

17:34:37 decimation: I like your idea of underprovisioning the drive to leave room for bad flash cells

17:34:39 asciilifeform: decimation: i used a 'Transcend' TS64GPSD330. <$100 at the time.

17:34:50 bounce: or a pata<->cf converter

17:34:52 decimation: I guess capacity isn't an issue here really

17:34:55 asciilifeform: no room for converter

17:34:59 decimation: right

17:35:02 asciilifeform: if you have a libretto, the drive has to fit. exactly.

17:35:18 decimation: as is the case with most laptops

17:35:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24271 @ 0.00094235 = 22.8718 BTC [-] {4}

17:35:35 asciilifeform: libretto has the least slack space in the bay of any machine of that period that i've owned.

17:36:10 asciilifeform: back in the day, i found that not one of three different pata<->cf cards would fit.

17:36:29 decimation: that's surprising

17:36:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]

17:36:54 decimation: I wish there were an ssd available that let you examine its innards

17:36:56 asciilifeform: most of them have cheap through-hole solder jobs and protrude almost 1mm

17:37:11 asciilifeform: decimation: most of them disassemble just fine

17:37:21 decimation: no, I mean the firmware

17:37:24 asciilifeform: ah

17:37:44 asciilifeform: i dumped 'intel' and 'samsung's ssd fw. ida eats it up like a champ.

17:37:45 decimation: but now that you mention it, they would be a good place to find cheap flash chips

17:38:01 decimation: heh

17:38:08 asciilifeform: a little tricky to make sense of what goes on inside, given undocumented regs a-plenty

17:38:39 decimation: what cpu does it use? 8051?

17:38:42 asciilifeform: one was an 'arm' variant, the other, a big-endian mips with a couple of custom cores, if i recall

17:38:43 BCB: mircea_popescu, did Gilliams list on mpex

17:38:46 asciilifeform: forget which was which

17:39:06 decimation: bunnie has a whole post on hacking SD cards

17:39:07 decimation: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554

17:39:08 ozbot: On Hacking MicroSD Cards « bunnie's blog

17:39:24 asciilifeform: there was also a fellow who booted linux kernel on the controllers of dead hdds recently

17:39:31 decimation: lol

17:39:46 asciilifeform: i experimented with this myself a few yrs ago, but life got in the way

17:39:56 decimation: the microcontroller on board is basically free

17:40:06 asciilifeform: ('the bad dancer is hindered by his arse.' kudos to the kid)

17:42:00 decimation: I was speaking to a greybeard EE last night. He lamented that most compE kids coming out of school want to put a high-end media CPU on embedded projects so they can run java or something stupid

17:42:15 decimation: thus making most of the cost of the development for these things go to firmware

17:42:39 asciilifeform: this wouldn't even be such a problem if it actually worked

17:42:45 mircea_popescu: BCB no ?

17:42:58 asciilifeform: but try getting a sharp 100kHz wave, for instance, out of a 'micro' running java

17:42:59 benkay: "Those concerned about e-waste may (or may not) be pleased to know that it’s also common for vendors to use recycled flash chips salvaged from discarded parts."

17:43:04 asciilifeform: (by toggling pins)

17:43:27 asciilifeform: 'eat recycled food. it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'

17:43:29 decimation: heh exactly

17:43:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the guys are retards of prime order, which is why i quoted it.

17:43:49 decimation: Or get weeks of battery life out of a lithium cell

17:44:23 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves is that dope ?

17:45:40 asciilifeform: re: the dope: simply owning the 'pill press' required to stamp the pictured items is quasi-illegal in usa

17:45:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]

17:45:50 asciilifeform: unless you're a 'registered' whatever

17:46:07 mircea_popescu: bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed

17:46:22 asciilifeform: (ianal, but if i recall, it's not actually illegal, but was ruled 'probable cause' for police search)

17:46:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nn, "expert systems" and other prime snake oil has long been the substance used to maks government graft.

17:47:46 asciilifeform: this is a well-known fact. the 'ai winters' were merely the flip sides of 'ai summers', bacchanalia of graft of every variety

17:48:20 decimation: of course, NN do work as ascii pointed out

17:48:30 asciilifeform: see, for instance, this:

17:48:31 asciilifeform: http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Thinking-Machines.aspx?pg=3#194568

17:48:31 decimation: just not against problems of the "I don't know what I want" variety

17:48:32 ozbot: Thinking Machines - The Daily WTF

17:48:45 asciilifeform: 'Yes, our office was magnificent and yes, a gourmet chef and her entourage came in every day to cook our lunch. The meals were awesome.'

17:49:11 asciilifeform: http://www.inc.com/magazine/19950915/2622_Printer_Friendly.html

17:49:12 ozbot: The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines, Bankruptcy Article | Inc.com

17:49:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform freer people would make home candy in the pattern and distribute it to neighbourhood kids.

17:49:43 asciilifeform: re: thinking machines, see mp's 'tin woman' essay.

17:49:57 mircea_popescu: decimation asciilifeform also point out that even a broom shoots once.

17:50:06 mircea_popescu: sure they work. not for everything all the time.

17:50:20 bounce: "hairs of its own"... well, that sort-of works. my understanding was more along the lines of bad RNGs have higher risk of getting stuck in local minima, but anyway. nothing like having and obscure joke get dissected to death.

17:50:20 asciilifeform: this particular broom actually fires small-caliber quite well. in every OCR app, for example.

17:50:43 mircea_popescu: bounce i suspect the statements are homologuous.

17:50:51 bounce: could be

17:50:53 decimation: as for e-waste: http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/devices/us-bill-would-fight-chip-counterfeiting

17:51:02 decimation: " According to a press release from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), until 2008, the CBP would snap pictures of the trademarks and other info on suspected counterfeit chips and send the images to semiconductor firms for verification. That stopped with when the Department of Homeland Security implemented a new security policy."

17:51:22 decimation: Because actually inspecting things would violate the rights of the grey-market importers

17:51:26 asciilifeform: decimation: did you see the recent incident with Fluke Corp. ?

17:51:27 mircea_popescu: heh

17:51:40 decimation: or, to be more precise, hiring and paying competent inspectors is a bridge too far for USG

17:51:55 decimation: no I didn't, what happened?

17:52:18 asciilifeform: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428

17:52:20 ozbot: Fluke, we love you but you're killing us. - News - SparkFun Electronics

17:52:49 decimation: did you ever wonder how many TSA agents could identify diddled electronics with their xray machines?

17:52:54 asciilifeform: tldr - fluke corp. has a trademark on... yellow voltmeters. chinese shipment of yellow voltmeters held up at customs, burned.

17:53:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00094421 = 23.5108 BTC [+] {3}

17:53:54 asciilifeform: the next day, they 'apologized' by... supplying a crate of free fluke meters to the victim

17:54:02 asciilifeform: and saying 'we're not the least bit sorry and shall do it again always'

17:54:20 decimation: so, in the land of the free, the USG has granted a monopoly on yellow DMM's and then began enforcing the monopoly using taxpayer funds.

17:54:35 mircea_popescu: gotta support the team.

17:54:42 asciilifeform: there is really no qualitative difference between this and every other 'ip' enforcement action.

17:54:50 decimation: Except, that's exactly what happened with the boston tea party

17:55:15 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fowd29dOyh0

17:55:15 ozbot: Puddy Paints His Face [Seinfeld] - YouTube

17:55:17 asciilifeform: now, for those who do not know, fluke is one of those remaining outfits that... builds things in usa

17:55:48 asciilifeform: traditionally, if you wanted an 'adult' measurement instrument (multimeter, oscilloscope, etc) you got a fluke or hp (now 'agilent')

17:55:53 asciilifeform: or suffered with chinese crap

17:56:05 asciilifeform: but now, the chinese instruments are quite usable

17:56:18 asciilifeform: and you can even get calibration certificates for them, for some extra cost

17:56:37 decimation: yeah I have noticed a trend here with a variety of electronic products

17:56:38 asciilifeform: fluke, naturally, 'will not go quietly into the good night'

17:57:03 decimation: yeah, but making lame patents isn't going to win in the end

17:57:36 asciilifeform: i doubt that anyone at fluke likes to think about 'the end'

17:57:54 asciilifeform: this incident showed all the symptoms of 'bite of the cornered beast.'

17:57:55 mircea_popescu: decimation why not ?

17:58:46 decimation: well, in this specific case, I think it will be impossible to create a ring of patents that will stop the mongol hordes

17:59:04 asciilifeform: note that this wasn't even a patent case

17:59:07 decimation: It's always going to be more expensive to pay lawyers than to develop a patent-evading version of a device

17:59:11 asciilifeform: trademark. on yellow plastic.

17:59:49 decimation: that makes it even more lame

18:00:04 mircea_popescu: you familiar with the concept of invincible ignorance ?

18:00:14 mircea_popescu: stuffing hands in ears and yelling works "indefinitely".

18:00:36 decimation: well, in the specific case of high-end test equipment, most buyers are not going to be easily swayed by bs

18:00:51 decimation: if they can halve their costs, anyway

18:00:54 mircea_popescu: but there's going to be a corner somehwere the retarded kids gather

18:01:01 decimation: indeed

18:01:02 mircea_popescu: and talk among each other about how "putin is living in a different world"

18:01:05 asciilifeform: the other notable thing was that this was an ultra-low-end product

18:01:07 decimation: they are going to get stem degrees

18:01:15 mircea_popescu: if you ask its citizenry, the us south still lives.

18:01:16 decimation: http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/

18:01:16 ozbot: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage - Michael S. Teitelbaum - The Atlantic

18:01:24 bounce: loved $article about shenzen though. made me wish for actual EE skill.

18:01:39 decimation: Even in electrical and electronic engineering?an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad?U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.

18:01:53 mircea_popescu: lol

18:01:58 decimation: what do you say about a "superpower" that can barely employ 300,000 EE's

18:02:07 mircea_popescu: it can employ an infinity of them

18:02:21 mircea_popescu: but it can't turn 100mn ghetto kids into more than 300k passible ee's

18:02:27 mircea_popescu: and about 50mn paralegals of all types.

18:02:29 asciilifeform: there is a 'gresham's law' / 'lemon car effect' at work with the EEs

18:02:45 decimation: that's true

18:03:01 decimation: asian countries will subsidize them to the hilt

18:03:02 mircea_popescu: afaik actualy us-citizen ee's vs total ee's have a worse salary problem than women/men in non-government, actually productive jobs do.

18:03:05 decimation: the talent moves there

18:03:38 asciilifeform: some months ago, i spoke with an EE prof (consultation) at a major american uni

18:04:02 asciilifeform: his several dozen grad students - not one could write a simple program for an embedded cpu.

18:04:16 mircea_popescu: that's not even the worst part.

18:04:19 decimation: that's sad

18:04:25 mircea_popescu: he couldn'rt force them to work webcams naked for a month is the worst part.

18:04:26 asciilifeform: and these people get Ph.D and 'graduate'

18:04:41 asciilifeform: 9 out of 10 india/china

18:04:50 mircea_popescu: ;;google mit battery

18:04:51 gribble: Batteries - MIT News Office: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/topic/batteries.html; Liquid Metal Batteries - Group Sadoway: http://sadoway.mit.edu/research/liquid-metal-batteries; Better batteries through biology? - MIT News Office: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/better-batteries-through-biology-1113.html

18:04:55 asciilifeform: yes, and this.

18:05:00 mircea_popescu: obligatory link to that being, of course,

18:05:08 decimation: my experience as us undergrad EE about 10 years ago

18:05:09 asciilifeform: but it had the angle of pillorying american undergrads at posh unis

18:05:11 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIhk9eKOLzQ

18:05:11 ozbot: MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube

18:05:16 decimation: 1/3 chinese, 1/3 indian, 1/3 white males

18:05:35 mircea_popescu: "we are the premier engineer and science institution in teh werld"

18:05:40 decimation: grad department (and profs) 80% chinese/indian

18:05:43 mircea_popescu: guy looks like a fucking shaving cream model.

18:05:54 asciilifeform: there's two separate diseases at work

18:06:13 mircea_popescu: at least, yeah/

18:06:18 asciilifeform: the american kids can't xxxx because, well, american schooling, 'diversity', etc. the eastern kids, they, in principle, could

18:06:25 asciilifeform: but won't. because 'i can lift it off the net'

18:06:54 mircea_popescu: im not sure that's a bad thing

18:07:05 asciilifeform: it is in practice almost always a bad thing

18:07:16 mircea_popescu: only absent superivision.

18:07:17 asciilifeform: not for 'religious' reasons, but practical ones

18:07:18 decimation: wrt embedded stuff "lifting off the net" never works well

18:07:53 benkay: all americans are lacking supervision, though.

18:07:56 asciilifeform: with the trend for centralization (everybody but a few weirdos runs 'arm' chips, compiles c/cpp) it 'works'

18:08:00 asciilifeform: for a while, at least.

18:08:12 mircea_popescu: see, if the context is, "be able to power bulb with battery on request or spend the next month poledancing in mumbai"

18:08:20 mircea_popescu: it no longer matters what the kid is lifting off net.

18:08:20 decimation: well, as long as the asians keep shipping those parts

18:09:14 decimation: to be an American today is to put your head deep in the lion's mouth, on the understanding that he won't bite

18:09:14 mircea_popescu: decimation indefinitely extensible. "be able to also design the battery"

18:09:26 mircea_popescu: wrong lion, wrong mouth tho

18:09:46 decimation: yeah you make a good point

18:10:12 decimation: at some point the bills will come due. It's hard to see how the US is going to add much value to anything with only 300k EEs

18:10:28 mircea_popescu: you know the refuge of dying empires

18:10:35 mircea_popescu: they're doing a lot of scholastics.

18:10:40 asciilifeform: i'm certainly not the first to describe this, but u.s. education system 'bit-shifted'. i.e. 'college is the new high school', and thereby it follows that 'phd is the new college'

18:10:46 mircea_popescu: "we are adding the TRUE value to everything through teh social media"

18:10:58 asciilifeform: so in that light, phd students who crib buggy code from stackoverflow and pass it off as a thesis are unsurprising.

18:11:15 benkay: i wish i'd had an education in the classic sense.

18:11:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform vaugely reminiscent of all the chinese administrative reorganisations

18:11:39 benkay: old books, hard problems, canings, etc.

18:11:42 mircea_popescu: basically the chinese ran all the middle ages on a sort of govt-sponsored us university program

18:11:45 bounce: nothing for it but give yourself one, even if N years late.

18:12:01 mircea_popescu: i'm with the b's. both of em.

18:12:07 asciilifeform: more or less this.

18:12:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07270143 = 1.0905 BTC [+] {3}

18:12:36 asciilifeform: if you never learned the skill of inflicting pain on yourself, it might be hard to start though

18:12:50 asciilifeform: perhaps there was a reason for the yoga bed of nails.

18:13:31 mircea_popescu: get a mistress.

18:13:42 decimation: even "biotech" is just a bunch of bs

18:13:46 decimation: from the article: Surprisingly, some of the largest and most heavily financed scientific fields, such as biomedical research, are among those with the least attractive career prospects, as a recent blue-ribbon advisory committee reported to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. "

18:13:55 mircea_popescu: i dun believe much in this masturbatory pain thing

18:14:02 asciilifeform: ;;google phillip greenspun women computing

18:14:03 gribble: Women in Computing - Philip Greenspun: http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/acm-women-in-computing; Women in Science - Philip Greenspun: http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science; Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Women and computer programmers: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2011/03/18/women-and-computer-programmers/

18:14:19 asciilifeform: 2nd link is it.

18:14:37 asciilifeform: (this is not really about women, but about american academia)

18:14:42 decimation: yeah that's a good article

18:14:44 mircea_popescu: i recall that articxle.

18:14:54 asciilifeform: 'Does this make sense as a career for anyone? Absolutely! Just get out your atlas.'

18:15:16 mircea_popescu: i hate greenspun for having deleted his original discussion of his adventures with "expert vcs"

18:15:19 mircea_popescu: greylock and co

18:15:22 benkay: bounce: that's what i'm working on. -assets has been an intellectual godsend.

18:15:51 benkay: in other news, my user group got kicked from our corporate sponsor's shop next month for a "women in tech event"

18:16:06 mircea_popescu: benkay https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 there's one jus' for you then :D

18:16:09 benkay: "great!" i said to the desk operator responsible for scheduling things while I seethed internally.

18:17:25 asciilifeform: 'The first round of layoffs had started. Salaries were frozen. Requests for new laptop computers were being denied. Meanwhile, Handler had an enormous marble archway installed in the atrium of the Carter Ink Building. When a national supercomputer conference was held in Seattle, she decided to stay in San Francisco and commute to Seattle from the swank Stanford Court Hotel. She commissioned a $40,000 logo desig

18:17:25 asciilifeform: n for a CM-5 sweatshirt and then rejected it. While the company was sinking, she focused her attention on putting out a cookbook with recipes from the company's now-infamous cafeteria. Increasingly paranoid, she had a video camera aimed at her personal parking spot and, by some accounts, made people take meetings with her in her parked car. She hired a bodyguard, telling her colleagues that she had received dea

18:17:25 asciilifeform: th threats. Some members of Thinking Machines' board suddenly seemed to realize that the person who had been running the company all those years had no business skills. The board discussed dumping Handler, but she managed to get her biggest enemies there kicked off.'

18:17:39 asciilifeform: (from the 'thinking machines' obituary)

18:17:40 the20year1: nice

18:18:19 benkay: mircea_popescu: you're not paying me to spend any time at that domain i don't think

18:18:36 mircea_popescu: im sure i don't.

18:19:15 benkay: so let 'em rot.

18:19:34 asciilifeform: benkay: re: 'w. in comp.' - the maggots on the corpse, are not the murder weapon.

18:19:45 mircea_popescu: ^

18:19:50 mircea_popescu: aptly put.

18:19:52 decimation: at least Mr. Cray had the good sense to die in a car accident

18:20:02 asciilifeform: for instance:

18:20:17 asciilifeform: the uni where i studied 'comp sci' has abolished many of the hardest items in the syllabus (or made them optional)

18:20:49 asciilifeform: i visited recently, to hear a talk, and noticed more girls in one classroom than there ever were in the whole bldg.

18:21:01 mircea_popescu: i had a friend. he was a touch paranoid, so he ended up carrying a bodyguard with him everywhere, in spite of living in a controlled town

18:21:05 asciilifeform: but i don't blame them for the decline

18:21:22 mircea_popescu: (1994-2004 a 300k pop town had exactly 0 murders)

18:21:49 mircea_popescu: eventually he got an electyed position, which gave him a driver.

18:21:52 asciilifeform: 'controlled' as in, say, Chelyabinsk-40 ?

18:22:06 mircea_popescu: he hated being driven around, so his car arrangement consisted of him driving two people about, who had nothing to do.

18:22:21 mircea_popescu: eventually he died, in a car crash, rushing home tired etc.

18:22:37 mircea_popescu: i wanted the obituary to read "at least he had his bodyguard with him" but people thought it's too soon.

18:23:24 asciilifeform: people love stories like this ('mighty hero dies of paper cut')

18:23:30 asciilifeform: e.g. alexander

18:24:37 decimation: yeah perhaps it is still too early for my dark Seymour Cray joke. He was a giant amoung elves

18:25:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, check out benkay ascetically depriving himself of internet lulz.

18:25:45 decimation: http://www.computer.org/portal/web/awards/seymourbio ?Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system.?

18:25:46 ozbot: Seymour Cray Biography

18:25:54 mircea_popescu: the path to pain starts with but a single step!

18:27:00 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Always interesting to see your stats

18:28:13 benkay: internet lulz are cheap, mircea_popescu.

18:28:31 benkay: and those aren't even terribly lulzy!

18:28:41 benkay: pantagruel and gargantua is more entertaining than btctalk.org

18:29:10 benkay: Wooster and Jeeves being far more entertaining on basically every metric.

18:29:18 benkay: written by professionals, acted by professionals...

18:31:32 mircea_popescu: ineed.

18:31:50 bounce: I say. In the spirit of expensive lulz, wish I had the spare change to buy up cray and move their headquarters to 4 2nd inf loop

18:36:46 asciilifeform: cray was a titan

18:36:55 asciilifeform: invented (among a hundred other things) 'pipelining'

18:38:46 the20year1: without him we wouldn't have the last starfighter

18:38:56 asciilifeform: as someone who personally had occasion to deal with problems that are not amenable to '1024 chickens,' i miss cray

18:44:43 asciilifeform: who doesn't know the old, unofficial and very alliterative slogan of the (traditional) nsa - 'acres of crays'

18:45:46 asciilifeform: some of the (officially released, not leaked) papers of the latter reveal that crap corp. was 'bailed out' as a 'national seekoority' matter

18:45:54 asciilifeform: *cray corp

18:45:56 asciilifeform: damn

18:46:43 asciilifeform: sad thing is, they sell 'chickens' now.

18:46:47 asciilifeform: like everybody else.

18:48:27 asciilifeform: (x86-64)

18:49:41 asciilifeform: perhaps if cray were alive, you could buy 'fpga' the size of a billboard...

18:50:33 mircea_popescu: im bashing the crap corp

18:50:40 asciilifeform: lol

18:50:52 asciilifeform: fingers have will of their own.

18:57:41 ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves is that dope ? /// is what what now?

18:58:38 mircea_popescu: some round small shits in a pic you linked

18:58:49 ThickAsThieves: oh, I assume so

18:58:58 ThickAsThieves: who knows, kids these days

18:59:00 mircea_popescu: racist.

18:59:11 ThickAsThieves: I;m writing my first blog

18:59:17 the20year1: yay

18:59:21 ThickAsThieves: having trouble keeping it short

18:59:24 ThickAsThieves: oh well

19:00:18 mircea_popescu: http://www.jdsupra.com/post/documentViewer.aspx?fid=54539da2-994e-43b5-b271-19fbb7e723e3

19:00:19 ozbot: Markopolos Letter to the SEC about Madoff | Doug Cornelius - JDSupra

19:00:30 mircea_popescu: if anyones curious to read fiat mpoe-pr cca 2005

19:00:39 mircea_popescu: (of course, the guy was ignored. by the sec and everyone else on the fiat-forums)

19:01:45 ThickAsThieves: i started this writing thinking i wouldnt be a hipster and use footnotes

19:01:48 ThickAsThieves: i was wrong

19:02:26 mircea_popescu: there's a reason footnotes survived three empires.

19:12:21 mircea_popescu: "Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get the solution, as long as we get one. I am not the young productive programmer that I once was with two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri

19:12:21 mircea_popescu: pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me to write in a forum than to do the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities to program depending on my body maybe every few day

19:12:24 mircea_popescu: s I get a good day).

19:12:26 mircea_popescu: Neuropathy is unpredictable. One minute I am doing fine, the next my face aches, tinnitus (motor in my ear), then suddenly my abdomen, then feet, then can't swallow and have a "fear of imminent suffocation" anxiety attack, feeling that my stomach wants to exit my body, etc.."

19:12:40 mircea_popescu: why is it that bitcoin attracts all the weirdos and assorted cruft refused everywhere

19:12:55 mircea_popescu: what are we supposed to do, erect columbia's statue on riker's island over here ?!

19:13:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6334999 BTC [-]

19:19:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17166 @ 0.00094503 = 16.2224 BTC [+] {3}

19:20:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7034 @ 0.00094618 = 6.6554 BTC [+]

19:24:00 jurov: mircea_popescu: if they accepted me at ibm, maybe i won't be here, too

19:24:50 jurov: what i heard ibm job is much cozier than getting worried for several months if that coinbr contraption is actually gonna fed you someday

19:24:53 mircea_popescu: but in the sense of accident "i'd have been to busy to hear of bitcoin" or in the sense of stupidity ?

19:25:16 jurov: not stupidity, just choosing easier path

19:25:38 mircea_popescu: how shall i put this in better terms.

19:25:51 jurov: but ibm had no part-time position for me, so i said fuck you. i'll try freelancing

19:26:23 mircea_popescu: well but wait.

19:26:45 mircea_popescu: here's the difference : suppose a guy is a carpenter, and he goes to new york. there's no jobs there, so he goes to oregon and makes himself a cabin.

19:26:47 mircea_popescu: that's type one.

19:27:06 mircea_popescu: suppose there's a guy with no profession. he loiters a while in new york but eventually all the beat cops know him so he goes to oregon

19:27:15 mircea_popescu: and he loiters there for a while, not as disturbed.

19:27:18 mircea_popescu: that's type two.

19:27:27 mircea_popescu: now you telling me there's no difference you see here ?

19:28:22 jurov: i'm just telling you why i think non-cruft fails to be attracted to bitcoin

19:28:39 mircea_popescu: greenspun's 4th, linked earlier hehe

19:28:48 mircea_popescu: "This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs."

19:28:50 jurov: cannot say anything about the cruft group

19:40:10 jurov: i see surprisingly large part of intellingent people (in sense they can get easily over-average salary) trapped in conspirational mindset

19:40:24 jurov: to them bitcoin looks like another conspiration, i spose

19:42:20 mircea_popescu: gotta pierce that veil.

19:42:40 mircea_popescu: i've had it up to here with in-their-mind slick fucks trying to turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device.

19:42:54 mircea_popescu: not that they're hard to crush individually, but there's a fucking pipe of them.

19:45:08 mircea_popescu: Part of the answer may be that young people fail to appreciate the risk that they will become more like old people when they are old. The young person sees the old tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture that values hot new ideas, sign up to be on committees. The youngster never asks "This oldster has tenure. He draws the same salary regardless of whether he sits through those interminable bori

19:45:08 mircea_popescu: ng committee meetings. Why would he agree to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?" The distressing possibility that the oldster agreed to be on the committee so that he would have a venue in which people would listen to him does not occur to the youngster.

19:45:09 mircea_popescu: epic.

19:49:29 benkay: mircea_popescu: regarding weirdos and cruft - is not everyone else busy running their businesses, tending to their mistresses etc?

19:49:44 Dimsler: lol

19:49:53 decimation: well, academia has been transformed into bureaucratic employment

19:49:53 Dimsler: bitcoin = pyramid scheme

19:49:55 Dimsler: at this point

19:50:06 mircea_popescu: you'd have to be an idiot to structure your business (and especially mistress!) so that you tend to them.

19:50:12 kakobrekla: no, its a triangle of opportunity

19:50:13 mircea_popescu: they should tend to you.

19:50:24 benkay: wait how does the business tend to you?

19:50:24 decimation: what's the difference between the gentleman sitting on a porch waiting for a welfare check and a professor sitting in a committee waiting for a tenure check?

19:50:46 mircea_popescu: for instance by producing ready resources (cash flow, but not just) in disproportion to your actual effort

19:50:46 benkay: mistresses i get, mircea_popescu but the business? does it not take ongoing tweaking and leadership?

19:51:01 mircea_popescu: if you want bread, and i want bread, and you spend an hour and make a loaf

19:51:09 mircea_popescu: and i spend an hour and make forty-nine and a half loaves

19:51:18 mircea_popescu: i'd say my business tended to me worth 48 loaves and change.

19:52:01 benkay: ah.

19:53:38 mircea_popescu: decimation but i suspect pg's point stands from a time before that.

19:54:49 decimation: certainly those who desire attention would be willing to pay to work as a teacher, actor, etc

19:54:54 mircea_popescu: now, obviously, training a new girl or starting a new business will be a net negative

19:55:19 mircea_popescu: but provided you're any good the end result is so far out of proportion to the original that your net negative becomes a rounding error.

19:57:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00094618 = 23.3233 BTC [+]

19:58:33 mircea_popescu: anyway, for balance, http://calvincorreli.com/2002/02/08/goodbye-arsdigita/

19:59:39 benkay: ah sorry net negative? even after the time and energy pumped into the new girl or venture?

20:00:41 benkay: strikes me that at a certain point you come out ahead, dishes getting cleaned/loaves getting tendered.

20:01:02 mircea_popescu: reread eh.

20:01:14 decimation: ?SAP is the best thing that ever happened to

20:01:15 decimation: computer people. It appeals to businesses that are too stupid to

20:01:17 decimation: understand and model their own processes but too rich to simply

20:01:18 decimation: continue relying on secretaries and file cabinets,?

20:01:20 decimation: lol

20:02:46 decimation: and why are they "too rich" to simply rely on secretaries and file cabinets? fiat loans, fiat bills, fiat life

20:04:08 mircea_popescu: you clearly haven't been in business in the old days.

20:04:34 mircea_popescu: the one affront an old lion could never forget, let alone forgive, would be hiring his secretary away.

20:05:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 174 @ 0.00591526 = 1.0293 BTC [-] {13}

20:05:05 mircea_popescu: the reason is that do you have any idea what a spider monkey capable of navigating those filing cabinets is worth ?

20:05:31 mircea_popescu: to this day the most respected woman on a hospital floor is she who knows where the binder goes.

20:05:45 mircea_popescu: not she who can take out the pancreas, make a liver out of it and pluck it back in.

20:07:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 21 @ 0.05897618 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {5}

20:07:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200105 = 0.124 BTC [-]

20:07:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, let's do the world a favor here

20:07:57 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bugpowder http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

20:07:58 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:10:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0639314 = 0.1918 BTC [+] {3}

20:11:47 peterl: .bait

20:11:49 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/852d012f6af549de7e0f12f261d96b2d/tumblr_n0sd2mEtGE1rz1q6ko1_1280.jpg

20:12:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.631 = 1.262 BTC [-] {2}

20:13:03 ninjashogun: hi

20:13:07 ninjashogun: hi, mircea_popescu

20:13:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07589957 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2}

20:14:16 decimation: yeah it's obvious to me that a good secretary is extremely valuable

20:15:04 decimation: the fact that she might spider through electronic rather than physical files changes nothing

20:16:17 mircea_popescu: you can write a good secretary for bash or perl if your records are digital.

20:16:30 mircea_popescu: analog dusted old binders are as of yet an unsolved problem

20:18:19 ninjashogun: the main reason is that when it takes a minute or to do something, you take more time with it. Same if thre's a physical good. It's why moleskine notebooks contain better diagrams and sketches than legal pads do.

20:20:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00571404 = 2.857 BTC [-] {10}

20:21:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1028 @ 0.00094618 = 0.9727 BTC [+]

20:22:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.06148784 = 2.4595 BTC [+] {12}

20:22:37 mircea_popescu: benkay incidentally, this approach also illustrates what exactly the current "privilege" discussion spearheaded by the socialists is, and why exactly it is braindamaged.

20:22:52 mircea_popescu: "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity.

20:23:19 mircea_popescu: they are as much a part of life as hot water and kitchen appliances, and moreover prerequisite to both.

20:24:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06449997 = 0.258 BTC [+] {4}

20:28:06 ThickAsThieves: mp, youve got pm

20:28:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.00453907 = 0.1135 BTC [+] {3}

20:31:27 decimation: the question is: who is getting the unearned income and for what reasons?

20:32:37 asciilifeform: always neglected is the question of wtf means 'earned.' i.e. the fellow who faithfully sits through traffic and warms a chair for 8hr/day moving paper from one pile to another, in the popular imagination, 'earns' something.

20:35:39 ninjashogun: hi, asciilifeform

20:36:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10826 @ 0.00094747 = 10.2573 BTC [+]

20:37:15 asciilifeform: hi ninjashogun

20:39:09 ninjashogun: I thought about some of the architectural things you point out re cardano. As a practical question, how do we determine the limits of risk compensation arguments?

20:39:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07416684 = 0.445 BTC [-] {3}

20:39:39 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: care to explain?

20:39:43 ninjashogun: For example, it is doubtless true that people who use condoms will have sex in some situations (with unknown partners they're not really sure of) that they wouldn't otherwise.

20:39:52 ninjashogun: But I don't think the Risk Compensation argument is effective against condom use.

20:40:27 ninjashogun: (I mean, for example, in theory you can do a deep check on all of your partners and KNOW they have no STD's and also don't sleep with anyone else othre than you. Condom use lets you have some protection in cases where this isn't done.)

20:40:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60251201 BTC [-]

20:41:00 ninjashogun: by deep check I mean you can get to know them deeply, even run medical tests, as well as trust their behavior on a deep level, as you do with your brothers and sisters for example.

20:41:45 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: steve jobs was famously asked, some time in '07, why he won't sell a 'netbook'

20:41:54 CheckDavid: My fellow brothers and sisters praiser the lord

20:42:17 asciilifeform: and answered something like, 'if you mean a $300 small laptop, we don't know how to make one that isn't a piece of shit.'

20:42:18 ninjashogun: yes, I know this :)

20:42:23 ninjashogun: right

20:42:29 decimation: ninjashogun are you saying that if the enemy possesses your cardano, then it is suspect?

20:42:35 ninjashogun: he said that the only thing is that it's a bad, cheap laptoop

20:43:31 ninjashogun: decimation, so this relates to an architectural discussion I had with asciilifeform on it. Specifically, a very GOOD reason not to include ANY second factor, not even the most trivial one (such as not writing your name and bitcoin address on the Cardano) is because any second factor will INCREASE the risky behavior in its users.

20:43:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.11950724 = 0.5975 BTC [-]

20:43:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-] {2}

20:43:58 asciilifeform: that is approximately what i said, yes.

20:44:02 ninjashogun: See: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369847812000587

20:44:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06200008 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2}

20:44:42 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, could you continue on your $300 netbook example?

20:44:54 asciilifeform: it is absolutely crucial that a cardano owner fully understand the gravity of his situation

20:44:58 asciilifeform: in the event of loss

20:45:56 decimation: there's no method to gaurantee the integrity of any device that could have been in the enemy's hands

20:46:13 asciilifeform: decimation: correct. i'm glad somebody gets this

20:46:18 ninjashogun: I also agree.

20:46:32 ninjashogun: Integrity is, obviously, right out the window.

20:46:32 decimation: well, then how does checking for std's map to this?

20:46:43 ninjashogun: decimation, the example is actually not about integrity. :)

20:47:24 ninjashogun: decimation, i.e. if it has been in adversary's hands, the result is obviously 0% integrity. What else is the result? I identified a couple of results to asciilifeform (including threat verctor back to PC should it be replaced without the Owner's knowledge)

20:48:03 asciilifeform: let's say that you own a pistol. it gets stolen and replaced without your knowledge for one that: shoots backwards.

20:48:04 mircea_popescu: std's are a very narrowly restricted set of problems

20:48:17 ninjashogun: Both map to STD's. Both reducing the threat vector back to the PC, and reducing the immediate loss without any effort on the part of the enemy, will increase risky behavior.

20:48:25 asciilifeform: before you laugh, the americans actually did this to the vietnamese on a few occasions

20:48:32 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes.

20:48:41 asciilifeform: ;;google project eldest son

20:48:42 gribble: Project Eldest Son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Eldest_Son; Project Eldest Son – The U.S. Scheme to Sabotage Charlie's Rifles |: http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/11/15/project-eldest-son-the-secret-u-s-scheme-to-sabotage-charlies-ammo/; Project Eldest Son: Covert Ammo Sabotage in Vietnam | Field ...: (1 more message)

20:49:37 decimation: seems like a sound plan

20:49:43 ninjashogun: asciilifeform - let's change the approach slightly. Suppose that the "risk compensation effect" were 500x, and the SLIGHTEST reduction in risk will be compensated 500x by risky behavior.

20:49:50 decimation: nevertheless, I fail to see how this is the ammo manufacturer's problem

20:50:28 mircea_popescu: yet versace purse makers intimately understand why cheap chinese knockoffs are their problem

20:50:39 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in this hypothesis, clearly it would make the Cardano MUCH safer to physically print the private key on it (ascii-padded) on a piece of paper that is folded a single time and taped to the Cardano. If users MUST do this or there is no way to do this, they will treat the Cardano much more safely.

20:51:00 ninjashogun: "or there is no way not to do this"*

20:51:24 asciilifeform: 'steering wheel spike' is a thought experiment, not a business plan.

20:51:27 ninjashogun: So that is true of a 500x risk compensation psychology. In this case, every Cardano should have a private key easily legibly printed on it for anyone tosee.

20:51:31 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes :)

20:51:59 benkay: how does this printed key work with the "fry" switch?

20:52:05 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so, how do we determine the difference between Steering Wheel Spike - print the private key on the Cardano for anyone to see - and genuinely sound decisions added for gravity?

20:52:09 benkay: or are you proposing abandoning the fry operation, ninjashogun?

20:52:11 asciilifeform: benkay: it wouldn't, clearly. this is lunacy.

20:52:25 benkay: i'm trying to drag the lunacy out into the open, asciilifeform.

20:52:47 ninjashogun: benkay, yes it's just a thought experiment. Clearly to SOME extent people would treat their cardano's slightly more securely physically if the printed key were on it.

20:52:48 benkay: (kicking and screaming though it may)

20:53:04 ninjashogun: benkay, but you see it would be wrong to do so. That is too much added insecurity.

20:53:19 ninjashogun: even though it would cause people to treat their Cardano's in a slightly more coveted manner.

20:53:21 benkay: if the users of the cardano need the key printed on the outside to incentivize them to treat it carefully, those are the wrong customers for NSA.

20:53:48 benkay: again with this "mass market, make it stupid" SV bullshit.

20:53:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00094635 = 19.4948 BTC [-]

20:54:11 ninjashogun: benkay, not so. This is asciilifeform's current argument for refusing to add any fallout mitigation for stolen Cardano's (including use of a passphrase that gets discarded after a while and memory cycled.).

20:54:18 asciilifeform: in my earlier conversation with ninjashogun, i tried to explain the concept of only solving technical problems that can be solved -well-.

20:54:41 benkay: don't you understand the importance of capturing markets with shoddy products asciilifeform?!

20:54:53 ninjashogun: So under the current Cardano architecture, there is 0 mitigation for even accidental loss, or theft. There is no pass phrase that is possible without rewriting the firmware yourself.

20:55:03 benkay: incorrect.

20:55:12 ninjashogun: Oh, this is what I understood from asciilifeform

20:55:14 benkay: sign the cardano key with your master key, and revoke it when you lose it.

20:55:23 benkay: *wave hands*

20:55:29 asciilifeform: benkay is correct.

20:55:32 decimation: tamper evident seals?

20:55:39 benkay: there's more to it than that, but that's the high-level approach.

20:55:39 ninjashogun: benkay, fair enough :). However if you are not aware that it has been out of your possession for a few minutes or hours this does not help.

20:55:42 asciilifeform: decimation: owner is free to apply his own seals.

20:56:00 ninjashogun: I personally don't like tamper evident seals at all.

20:56:12 ninjashogun: I don't think it's possible to make a true tamper evident device.

20:56:16 benkay: ninjashogun: that's the whole point of "you guarantee physical security, cardano guarantees electrical security."

20:56:24 benkay: if you can't guarantee physical security, the device is useless.

20:56:29 ninjashogun: benkay, I understand this.

20:56:31 asciilifeform: the only seal that is worth anything at all is a custom, preferably invisible one (e.g. perfume, specks of dust) applied by the owner.

20:56:35 asciilifeform: as discussed in mp's essay

20:56:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00094607 = 11.684 BTC [-] {2}

20:57:16 asciilifeform: likewise, if i applied some magical seal (assume one exists) the buyer is unable to dissect his unit without losing it

20:57:20 asciilifeform: so the effort would be wasted.

20:57:21 decimation: 'professional' crypto products have a zeroize key http://www.gdc4s.com/Documents/Products/Secure%20Voice%20and%20Data/Network%20Encryption/GD-TACLANE-Micro-w.pdf

20:57:33 asciilifeform: zeroize key is as old as time.

20:57:42 asciilifeform: 19th c. codebooks came with anchors.

20:57:46 asciilifeform: (drop overboard)

20:57:49 benkay: lol anchors

20:58:18 benkay: !t m s.nsa

20:58:18 assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.000145 / 0.00015512 / 0.000156 (1000 shares, 0.16 BTC), 7D: 0.0001 / 0.00010918 / 0.000156 (6000 shares, 0.66 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.0001236 / 0.00021 (79650 shares, 9.85 BTC)

20:59:44 mircea_popescu: they did

21:00:02 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, let me ask you this. Will any Cardano ever be lost or stolen?

21:00:21 asciilifeform: certainly

21:00:38 asciilifeform: just as diamonds, pistols, nukes, are lost and stolen

21:00:43 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it is a good question because in the case of the Soviety Submarines, it is possible that none will ever melt down due to user error, ever.

21:01:04 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in which case any change to that (by making it "safer") would in fact result in worse effects.

21:01:20 ninjashogun: soviet*

21:02:10 ninjashogun: (asciilifeform had an example of how soviet submarines did not self-regulate their nuclear reactors but always had a person in the loop, who therefore understood the gravity of his situatoin.)

21:03:07 asciilifeform: obligatory:

21:03:09 asciilifeform: http://thewhet.net/2012/shall-be-delivered

21:03:10 ozbot: Shall be Delivered | The Whet

21:03:13 ninjashogun: So, if we know, for sure, that in some cases Cardanos will be lost or stolen - is it possible that an architectural change MAY make the Cardano more secure oerall by reducing the immediate fallout from these cases?

21:04:17 decimation: can you propose such a technology? a spike in the steering wheel is not such a precaution.

21:04:22 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: i am sad to say that you appear to have learned nothing from our conversation.

21:06:51 benkay: asciilifeform: do you think this is a case for Hanlon?

21:06:53 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I did learn from it, yes. Clearly Risk Compensation is not a law :) :) It is possible to mitigate fallout in some ways without automatically getting an exact compensation.

21:08:18 decimation: it's also obvious that any precautions taken could be bypassed, and thus are worse than features

21:08:25 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, for example if you introduced an architectural change that, as a direct result, meant half of thefts did not result in key becoming accessible to thief - would there be instantly twice as many thefts as a result?

21:08:55 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if only one tenth of thefts actually resulted in the key becoming known to the thief - would there be exactly ten times as many thefts as a result?

21:08:58 Apocalyptic: dafuq am I reading

21:09:43 benkay: Apocalyptic: madness.

21:09:52 decimation: he's a high-functioning troll, as best as anyone can gather

21:09:58 ninjashogun: Apocalyptic, I am trying to understand the architectural trade-offs in the Cardano, and, specifically, why the private key MUST be stored in the plain with no mitigation against loss. (Except key revocation, if the user is aware of it). Why it has to be "fail-dangerous" and not "fail-90% dangeorus"

21:10:04 asciilifeform: decimation: that's the most charitable explanation.

21:10:15 mircea_popescu: tibby is back !?

21:10:28 mircea_popescu: o the shogun guy. ya well...

21:10:40 benkay: ninjashogun: how would you make the key less accesible to an attacker?

21:10:47 ninjashogun: For what it's worth, I'm not a troll and do have some experience with product design trade-offs.

21:10:49 benkay: mircea_popescu: tib's my thesis here.

21:11:05 benkay: ninjashogun: all trolls say "I'm not a troll".

21:11:14 Apocalyptic: ninjashogun, I hope i don't use any products resulting of your experience

21:11:24 ninjashogun: benkay, that's not true. Some trolls are happy to troll and tell you they're trolling.

21:11:34 ninjashogun: benkay - through the methods other people have alreayd suggested (or something similar) to asciilifeform.

21:11:49 ninjashogun: benkay, a variation on one of the known methods.

21:11:51 benkay: sorry - inaccessible.

21:11:56 benkay: less accessible is not acceptable.

21:12:13 benkay: (for reasons you fail apparently to grasp)

21:12:17 ninjashogun: benkay, I do grasp it.

21:12:28 ninjashogun: benkay, and I understand the Risk Compensation argument deeply and with nuance.

21:12:43 benkay: seems as though you're the only one.

21:12:56 benkay: i think there's a good reason society's locked you up in a 100/mo shithole, sir.

21:13:08 diametric: oh he's back

21:13:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0619926 = 0.124 BTC [+] {2}

21:13:20 benkay: you're incapable of even convincing the government to pay your welfare.

21:13:25 asciilifeform: in safety engineering, there is a concept where precautions that annoy people and get in the way of work tend to make construction workers, oil prospectors, etc. worse off

21:13:28 asciilifeform: than nothing at all

21:13:57 asciilifeform: household example would be a smoke alarm that goes off every time you overcook a potato

21:14:06 asciilifeform: it tends to end up unplugged and in a parts bin

21:14:49 ninjashogun: benkay - Yes, you have just written a good example of trolling.

21:14:52 Mats_cd03: oh snap

21:15:34 Mats_cd03: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FekvruRUi24

21:15:35 ozbot: Keyboard fight - YouTube

21:15:38 decimation: ninjashgun has your startup managed to acquire financing?

21:15:44 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/06e3229410ffb29f7afcd5039ace6c68/tumblr_mp5ahyJaww1rsltkro1_1280.jpg

21:15:46 mircea_popescu: in other news

21:16:19 Mats_cd03: whenever i see tumblr my brain tells me "boobies"

21:16:29 Mats_cd03: ive been trained by mp to react to tumblr

21:16:39 asciilifeform: i, personally, have nothing against paupers who live in $100, or even $10 ditches, and cannot finance anything

21:16:42 mircea_popescu: lol

21:16:48 mircea_popescu: titsbler

21:16:54 asciilifeform: but then come the 'ideas'

21:17:34 ninjashogun: decimation, as I mentioned before we are at the pre-financing stage - the startup is not raising money right now. I know a lot of stories of people who built great things with burn rates near $0. Airbnb is now closing a round at $10B. They sold cereal to launch.

21:17:59 Mats_cd03: your knowledge of how other startups work is impressive

21:18:37 Mats_cd03: oops forgot an /s

21:18:39 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I worked for a startup that was acquired, as one of just two employees. Yes, I know how typical funded startups operate.

21:19:00 Mats_cd03: thats cool, what was the service or good being sold

21:19:33 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, it was called "don't feed the trolls" and we sold custom consulting services that consisted of "Don't feed the trolls". Hope this answers your question.

21:19:52 Mats_cd03: im actually not trolling

21:20:03 Mats_cd03: but consulting firms are cool, i guess...

21:20:06 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I humbly disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.

21:20:30 benkay: kakobrekla save us

21:20:40 Mats_cd03: so much for innovation

21:21:19 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, honestly I clearly have given this channel way too much access to what I'm doing already. There's a reason stealth mode startups operate in that way.

21:21:37 Mats_cd03: i think youve spent too much time drinking the silicon valley koolaid

21:22:12 Mats_cd03: if an idea was special nobody would be

21:22:22 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, very humbly, perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with them.

21:22:52 Mats_cd03: lol

21:23:34 asciilifeform: ninjashogun walks into 'alcoholics anonymous' with a jug of moonshine. 'perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with this!'

21:23:48 Mats_cd03: i can't speak for anyone else

21:23:52 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, have you had bad experiences with startups?

21:24:32 asciilifeform: everyone with a net connection, including Pashtuns using steam modems with ip-over-dead-goat have, at this point, 'had bad experience with startups.'

21:24:47 mircea_popescu: hahaha steam modems ?

21:24:54 benkay: ip-over-dead-goat!

21:24:55 mircea_popescu: your figures are good :D

21:25:18 asciilifeform: i had a dream as a kid where me modem (old at&t 'paragon' fished from a skip) was a gas modem, and i forgot to turn off the gas

21:25:43 mircea_popescu: clearly someone's mom was intent on stove discipline

21:25:56 asciilifeform: (i know of no real life 'gas modem' but folks have proposed using gas, water, even sewer pipes for 'last mile' ip so be careful what you wish for)

21:26:21 decimation: 'last mile' power line modems are particuarly idiotic

21:26:23 mircea_popescu: "send emails over your farts! it's great for the environment and ok for your wallpaper"

21:26:33 decimation: spam the shortwave spectrum for a few megabits

21:26:46 *: asciilifeform looks for and fails to find the old article on robotic rats used to run wire through sewer pipes

21:27:02 mircea_popescu: i wonder if real rats ever tried to mate with them

21:28:09 decimation: sending data through an accoustically coupled gas pipe would be amusing but slow

21:28:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06200001 = 0.186 BTC [-] {2}

21:28:30 ninjashogun: Here is why silicon valley is different:

21:28:30 ninjashogun: https://www.pwcmoneytree.com/MTPublic/ns/nav.jsp?page=region

21:28:31 asciilifeform: http://www.oobject.com/category/super-sewer-robots/

21:28:32 ozbot: PricewaterhouseCoopers: Global: Insights & Solutions: MoneyTree™

21:28:33 ozbot: super sewer robots

21:29:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.11950724 = 0.717 BTC [-]

21:29:32 mircea_popescu: decimation and if there's a gas explosion everyone gets unfriended ?

21:29:39 mircea_popescu: whole neighbourhood!

21:29:43 ninjashogun: It's the difference between "How can I help you get from a $500K nominal valuation - your last round - to $10M" and "Wait, you're not taking a salary? Why don't you just go on welfare?" -- this channel above :)

21:29:52 dub: I know someone that implemented IPoW(et)S(tring) at university

21:30:06 benkay: valuation ≠ value.

21:30:16 asciilifeform: http://www.inspector-systems.com/makro_plus.html

21:30:17 ozbot: INSPECTOR SYSTEMS - MAKRO Plus, Service robots for sewer inspection

21:30:17 asciilifeform: etc

21:30:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18076 @ 0.0009479 = 17.1342 BTC [+] {3}

21:30:27 ninjashogun: benkay - you are reinforcing my point. valuation might not be value, but it's clear that airbnb is worth more than $200K in cash.

21:30:40 asciilifeform: i saw a much simpler (cable-driven) version of this being used right here on my street.

21:30:49 ninjashogun: benkay - moreover valuation literally is value, in that it literally is someone paying literally that price.

21:31:04 benkay: you miss the point again.

21:31:18 asciilifeform: your heart, liver, corneas have a valuation. ask the chinese. anybody paid yet/

21:31:19 ninjashogun: benkay - I think you miss the point. Valuation literally, bydefinition, is value.

21:31:24 asciilifeform: ?

21:31:49 benkay: so all of GLBSE is worthwhile i guess.

21:32:08 dub: CSS == value

21:32:19 benkay: PMB's == value

21:32:24 asciilifeform: ok found it:

21:32:28 asciilifeform: http://forbiddenhillcrest.tumblr.com/post/4322296903/the-sewer-robots-of-pulaski-county

21:32:28 ozbot: Forbidden Hillcrest, The Sewer Robots of Pulaski County

21:32:39 ninjashogun: dub, what is css in this context?

21:32:41 asciilifeform: this is quite like the one i saw.

21:33:56 decimation: interesting. Such a robot could be quite useful for setting up covert data connections

21:36:12 Namworld: http://www.oobject.com/super-sewer-robots/insight-vision-jet-propelled-camera/1871/

21:36:14 ozbot: Insight Vision Jet Propelled Camera

21:37:11 Namworld: Protoss Observer, sewer model

21:37:28 ninjashogun: http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/2/89.full

21:37:30 ozbot: The risk compensation theory and bicycle helmets -- Adams and Hillman 7 (2): 89 -- Injury Prevention

21:37:38 mircea_popescu: obviously my client splits it up as pula ski

21:40:52 Mats_cd03: what is this "stove discipline" you speak of

21:41:04 Mats_cd03: is this something you can only experience in the dreaded lubyanka

21:42:03 mircea_popescu: well, natural gas is dangerous, in that it'll level a house.

21:42:15 mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way kids and senile old people have of causing serious trouble

21:42:49 asciilifeform: speaking of which,

21:42:51 asciilifeform: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/uptown/businesses-closed-week-explosion-article-1.1729672

21:42:53 ozbot: Merchants shut down after East Harlem gas explosion plead for help - NY Daily News

21:43:43 mircea_popescu: sahara boutique

21:43:44 asciilifeform: http://www.trbimg.com/img-53211025/turbine/la-apphoto-aptopix-nyc-explosion2-jpg-20140312/600

21:43:46 mircea_popescu: sounds promising.

21:44:32 mircea_popescu: 116th street wow. and yet it has buildings and everything ?!

21:45:37 asciilifeform: given how it was an almost surgical demolition job of most of a block, probably a basement leak

21:45:45 asciilifeform: but ianafi (i am not a fire inspector)...

21:46:04 nubbins`: who is?!

21:46:08 mircea_popescu: so the city is responsible huh ?

21:46:48 asciilifeform: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/16/us-usa-new-york-collapse-idUSBREA2F0IU20140316

21:46:48 ozbot: Crews focus on gas lines in New York building explosion

21:54:16 mircea_popescu: data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArwAAAGbBAMAAADU1V5jAAAAJFBMVEX////g4OAgICBgYGBAQEAAAACgoKDAwMCAgIDl5f/U1O3d3d00vM7SAAAURUlEQVR4nO2du3MbNx7HoQcszbjR5DF3paLHJaXOGWVSchwzcQnThG0NG41z7jWZ81zryUWX9hoWTH9FOjWs/M/d4rUvYHcB7EKiud/vaChyd38L8MMfQQD7w28JgSAIatZnR37HeR4Wpb2LhCd/UH3B50ePnp5dE35D5pTzud6+d/JNtvPsiHB+KsgeMvLPs5uDpz9lz80x08qZ9l6T8yN6rF9lx9CJeipPn72eyw2fn/yYPe48Obs2+4sjt0+X73+ZXJ4+eUn4JHv/p99+Z7Y/n16Qk9sJ

21:54:16 mircea_popescu: mX2bPSGHU3Yw/+31++fTmya8j97s8Ov3xg9LeOXpDd6d8x/OP2TfmfmTNwXU6Wm6N/iwmtJH/8ne+vR69ka7l9IJ2Z+Qky8vMi67x5lrPmF7L3ZeXh5lW7JN81+/Jm+/mWYOff3u4vaDMpk/Ort4d51tOnj6Y3bM93RyebM7IY/k6Q3evVdkl2XIr8k5fX5ys3dyejR/ez63K7Ydup0e7b0g5MuL+eXNnJ49+0lvn/6ePfxyKlh+dpw93Wf7jMyn0iXnhH87P5j9xg9e/vx6/9WZNnl6+Pz4Umx6/112rv2v6OT9h/fXRJ2eZ+2OsBWf1ZH49MgOnV8eX353ezE7297G4fB8/gUTX+T57kS0va+yTc8yD/3r+fxo5+mbvQ8Zlw+kjndGzjNq54ezZy93zl9rk3df/M7OxKbbs+

21:54:17 mircea_popescu: nF7OkRneweXx5lluL0s2fPJF5NUrgrPd5l/9p5P5ltcdtL6O0PynsP3ujGYY8fi39vj/e/un1yPXv2XLyq4p2TafZyuid+Ci8n2uTLt9ev3ohNl5xP+CzDe/g682z95dCNQ+a9OzfSe/9CJ/vs85PLyXyL8f6b7v5NN46X5bb3LAOxe7w3M79j+9W2N0MrvPcFOdo5ea1Nds+Pnr4Qm26Pdsjs7YROdubZl8Fue49l23si8E6zD2Gb8V6+0z2H7CdM9By+N9uznsPe/Fd+k+M9mP36+v035zcar2h7d85+frX/+kSbHM7I7bHY9NmPl9fzw1cZtOkxKfccTr/9e6XnkOH9fprh3f363t/3PWk/+xbrjumBaHtnevuh6Pc+Of3sOMdL/nF280j3ezO85O3pue456M7YwUvy7oLk

21:54:22 mircea_popescu: PYfMO8Xrcr9XNO3lfu8+++Ls7VdzcnhmV2xL9GXK4djtdcKTfxLaS3ju3Vn3MVC09n7qPgaCoAcV5YRzlj0Swpn4g4YUI4zJR0IJzf4euj5bpka8HOotphoHF96rVaD+DDUo648+xj2tk9X8v0yCFQ4MvMOXDbxSafGyBrzLrPW4WmX/ruTBS75aXcnHVbZlKbdl/5dyT/b3pzyWr9ThysZplJ0wNzJ7dBnDv0UfJcSbtb36r9Yxy/EWKK+WV+Ixe71ccb1tqfZkf//LjhXY1OFXqzajpTHSe5Z/LBO9RR8lxNuoMt7lUpMwpFZl75V7VlfSe8t4eaPRKjfSn9DI8epvsyG1NB6dHaH3mMbhKm8cJGeX0dXK7MmeZo/i9H/wRG/RRw+Od7VcrUqOeLWstL2F9670sTlet5HZow

21:54:27 mircea_popescu: iLPXzU3lsjtYrBu7Lwlg5E49CK98q0vV54cyOzZ8Rtr+hHiZ+2vI+11H2sK/PTlnfMlrqPdSVaZfnEZSQ7ZmJPdnqzZ1s7Zi14C7ld66r68s/GPS1GHpX00CeIt7zLOY9W33jXfnj7rsfNJh7qZ12qec+y6++OWRNjrNgVqMEqed/WQ9WcAa9TQ+FlNl6mx8IZWTk0Bt7osrkDL+VU/XHGmfgrdgVq9Hhd3ivAqj/GOfAGiz7OSTU0DoKtuJ7JKOMEeIPEOvBSxVZ4r6QLvEFinBpmrAEv4wqvbB6AN0iMduKVLS9+2qIk8PIWvFnbS0R3LKOLjlm4mPj2K1TchRfDiqSNA/D2w0sUXknZgb

21:54:32 mircea_popescu: ouch

21:54:34 mircea_popescu: sorry!

21:54:58 asciilifeform: puzzle for us all?

21:55:28 benkay: pastebin?

21:55:37 benkay: plus context?

21:55:46 mircea_popescu: its the ^OEX chart, 5 years, weekly

21:55:56 mircea_popescu: it looks beyond fucking ridiculous

21:56:04 mircea_popescu: here, i'll summarize it for you :

21:56:08 mircea_popescu: /

21:56:43 Mats_cd03: it all makes sense now

21:56:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6139998 BTC [+]

21:56:56 Mats_cd03: not

21:57:27 benkay: nice steady rate of inflation in the usd?

21:57:43 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 the ^OEX, ie standard and poor 100, is the index of us stocks. which supposedly have been moving like it's animated by the gosplan

21:58:00 Mats_cd03: i see

21:58:20 mircea_popescu: benkay from 500 to 800 in 2 years ?

21:58:45 mircea_popescu: it was 500ish in 2002.

21:58:50 mircea_popescu: it was 500ish in 2007

21:58:56 mircea_popescu: it was 500ish in 2012

21:58:58 mircea_popescu: but since...

21:59:26 mircea_popescu: 25+% a year, twice madoff's presumed return.

22:00:08 benkay: talking about this?

22:00:08 benkay: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EOEX+Interactive#symbol=%5EOEX;range=max

22:00:09 ozbot: S&P 100 INDEX Index Chart - Yahoo Finance

22:00:56 Namworld: Damn, I decoded what was pasted and i got a large image with just a few pixel high line of actual picture.

22:01:23 mircea_popescu: benkay http://bit.ly/1gd6BQW

22:01:26 mircea_popescu: sorry for shortner

22:01:56 mircea_popescu: the image comes straighyt from there, who knew these guys use mpex tech o.O

22:02:00 mircea_popescu: i thought i was the only cool one.

22:03:33 mircea_popescu: anyway, simply put anything past 1994 is bs.

22:04:23 mircea_popescu: (the 25 year graph makes it quite plain)

22:07:56 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, madoff chose a return that was set not to be "too good to be true" while working more on giving the appearance of very low baked-in risk. He did not give out returns that made anyone wealthy - he was just very consistent about it.

22:13:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1700 @ 0.00012401 = 0.2108 BTC [-]

22:13:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 34 @ 0.0730414 = 2.4834 BTC [-] {4}

22:14:30 benkay: 2001-2003

22:14:31 benkay: good times

22:15:55 benkay: i start to understand the furor over QE ca 2007

22:15:59 mircea_popescu: should have let the bullshit deflate then

22:16:17 benkay: "but we're already printing money every week! what else are we to do?"

22:16:27 benkay: "i have a pwan! pwint MOAR!"

22:17:27 mircea_popescu: anywya, if anyone wants to sell me ^OEX puts...

22:17:37 benkay: what timeframe? just out of curiousity.

22:17:47 mircea_popescu: five years, say.

22:19:25 benkay: i've been looking for fb puts on the same scale.

22:19:37 mircea_popescu: i'd take two years there

22:19:49 *: mircea_popescu wistfully recalls his rimm puts. o glory.

22:22:16 mircea_popescu: i can't sell enough us, as far as i'm concerned.

22:22:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00094859 = 7.2093 BTC [+] {2}

22:22:37 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, the berkshire bitbet is something else

22:22:48 benkay: http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/fb/option-chain?callput=put&dateindex=6

22:22:51 ozbot: Facebook, Inc. (FB) Option Chain - Stock Puts & Calls - NASDAQ.com

22:23:00 mircea_popescu: 98 no bets for a 34.98 btc pool. 14 yes bets for a 1007.6 pool

22:23:33 mircea_popescu: that's 0.35 avg vs 71.95 avg

22:23:39 mircea_popescu: only 200x

22:23:51 benkay: but buffet, mannnnnn

22:23:52 mircea_popescu: even if we exclude my bet, it's still .54

22:24:13 benkay: smart money is big money.

22:24:30 mircea_popescu: and vice versa.

22:24:49 mircea_popescu: i'll end up making 3% over a year and people will be o noes, such low return

22:26:23 benkay: srs? in btc?

22:26:44 benkay: i was under the impression that 2% was an outrageous return in btc.

22:27:21 mircea_popescu: you don't read the forum much i take it.

22:27:28 benkay: i should fix that.

22:27:35 mircea_popescu: maybe not

22:29:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00094949 = 13.0555 BTC [+]

22:40:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15358 @ 0.00094855 = 14.5678 BTC [-]

22:48:09 taub: what exchange is lake

23:01:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 36 @ 0.0055591 = 0.2001 BTC [+]

23:04:41 hdbuck: shit im being prosecuted. any lawyers? ^^ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494617.100

23:05:47 mircea_popescu: you're being prosecuted for karpeles being jewish ?

23:06:16 hdbuck: i really cant tell so far

23:06:21 hdbuck: maybee

23:06:23 hdbuck: ?!

23:07:50 mircea_popescu: this crap is in service discussion ?!

23:09:33 hdbuck: lol yeah, i just digged up MK essays and got caught between fires

23:10:35 hdbuck: mk's bullish essays : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494617.msg5682343#msg5682343

23:10:58 mircea_popescu: what or who is mk

23:11:36 hdbuck: Mark Karpeles

23:11:47 hdbuck: the scammer

23:12:42 mircea_popescu: a a

23:15:42 kakobrekla: yeah, i better stop using initials for my email signature

23:16:02 mircea_popescu: sucks huh.

23:16:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11522 @ 0.00094589 = 10.8985 BTC [-]

23:16:22 kakobrekla: yeah well you are not too far from it

23:17:47 kakobrekla: mp, mk, the keys are right next to each other

23:17:56 mircea_popescu: im not too worried about it

23:18:24 kakobrekla: i know.

23:19:10 mircea_popescu: "The sooner this community gets rid of these stains/schemes currently tainting the innovative and revolutionary world of bitcoin which they are piggybacking, the sooner we will make progress."

23:19:26 mircea_popescu: this preceded by "Your detachment from reality..."

23:27:43 cazalla: clearly karpeles is JIDF

23:28:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6230002 BTC [+]

23:29:22 mircea_popescu: are these the idiots who whine at facebook about whether x y z is a country ?

23:29:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.00608565 = 0.353 BTC [+] {5}

23:29:45 jborkl: What is JIDF?

23:30:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00619576 = 0.2602 BTC [+] {3}

23:30:52 cazalla: Jewish Internet Defense Force

23:33:58 mircea_popescu: http://www.checkfundmanager.com/wall_of_shame.html

23:33:58 ozbot: Check Fund Manager Wall of Shame

23:34:01 cazalla: I would probably get along great with radan lol

23:35:52 hdbuck: what?! they havent had add Karpeles to that list yet? ^^

23:36:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00094323 = 2.2638 BTC [-]

23:36:37 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> wait what ?

23:36:37 mircea_popescu: <mpoe-pr> you're aware that there's this bitcoin forum that i work on every day. and on this forum, there are sub-forums. and one of these is off-topic.

23:36:37 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> ya

23:36:37 mircea_popescu: <mpoe-pr> there's a thread there for movie recommendations. forum people. recommending movies to each other. can you imagine the horror? cause it's worse than you imagine.

23:36:39 mircea_popescu: poor girl.

23:39:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61519 BTC [-]

23:40:15 hdbuck: mircea_popescu, could you please enlighten me regarding what is actually going to happen in bitcoinland? i mean, all that junk going on with the BTCFoundation, the heists, the banks, the whole damn world? what to expect if not some shitstorm lies and persecutions?

23:40:38 mircea_popescu: well who knows the future eh ?

23:41:03 hdbuck: i figured you had a pretty good idea tho cuz i'm clueless :)

23:41:27 mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe the sec finally decides to stop dicking around and we get some scams actually blown open properly,

23:41:49 mircea_popescu: rather than this current "pick bugs off the floor put them, in the bucket whence they run back out" thing we've been doing for the past three years

23:42:07 mircea_popescu: it's starting to drive the girl nuts, for one.

23:42:34 mircea_popescu: my cock really doesn't taste as bad as people tell themselves.

23:42:50 hdbuck: i saw your first post on the btcforum was: "I'm pretty convinced we will see 1mn$ / BTC at some future point" havent changed your mind so far? ^^

23:43:01 mircea_popescu: nope.

23:43:10 mircea_popescu: what post is this ?

23:43:19 hdbuck: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=37923;sa=showPosts

23:43:20 ozbot: Latest posts of: Mircea Popescu

23:43:22 hdbuck: first one

23:43:45 mircea_popescu: o.O

23:43:47 hdbuck: nice introduction ^^

23:44:33 mircea_popescu: i dunno, must be some meanwhile forgotten joke ?

23:45:40 mircea_popescu: that aside, bitcoin will outlive the dollar, in which sense any arbitrary price point will be reached eventually.

23:45:55 hdbuck: a joke taht had kept you busy for the last couple of years

23:46:43 hdbuck: anyho, still reading logs. im not going to bother any longer. keeping up the faith :)

23:46:48 mircea_popescu: http://25.media.tumblr.com/e7d146810d1469d34acdd03e710ac892/tumblr_mnxx63r5tp1rymyzgo1_1280.jpg

23:46:54 mircea_popescu: have a tit.

23:47:24 diametric: lots of new people stopping by lately i see

23:50:01 cazalla: I'm fairly new and my being here, I would expect more soon diametric

23:50:51 mircea_popescu: curious which is the first hip hop artist to make it here.

23:51:05 mircea_popescu: they all pretend like they're businessmen, it's the hip thing to claim

23:51:12 cazalla: given it takes a year to go through the /r/bitcoin and bitcointalk wringer, i am thinking most end up here after some time and not straight off thet bat

23:51:25 mircea_popescu: i sure hope so.

23:51:56 diametric: cazalla: why is that?

23:52:25 cazalla: diametric: learning curve i would think

23:53:07 diametric: there is a surprisingly amount of people that really dislike mircea_popescu. I've encountered a few that proclaim he's a scammer, but when questioned on what scam specifically they fail to give details.

23:53:27 diametric: and by association they've linked this channel to scammers

23:53:33 cazalla: I'm your average person, can't keep up with some of the conversation here, need to go and google words for definitions and so forth but I'm here (got started in Bitcoin nov 2012) so I would expect others who are average to start turning up as I have

23:53:35 mircea_popescu: the convenient explanation being that they're exposed scammers/shills with a bone for pr.

23:54:34 CheckDavid: cazalla: normal people have to Google

23:54:37 mircea_popescu: the more likely explanation is probably that they're not actually as smart as they see themsekves.

23:54:41 CheckDavid: But it you actually Google

23:54:52 CheckDavid: You are away being them :)

23:55:00 CheckDavid: *way beyond

23:55:32 cazalla: diametric: I think the dislike might come from feeling inferior due to the conversations here

23:55:58 cazalla: If you put ones ego aside for a moment, there is a lot you can learn, at least that has been my experience to date

23:55:58 diametric: possibly, it also reminds me of when someone wins at something, people immediately assume they cheated somehow because they themselves didn't win.

23:56:31 mircea_popescu: crab pot phenomena

23:56:41 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu sucks

23:56:48 CheckDavid: But I love him

23:56:56 CheckDavid: He is wise

23:57:04 mircea_popescu: omg i don't suck how can you say that!1

23:58:20 *: CheckDavid hides

23:58:43 mircea_popescu: lol

23:58:52 hdbuck: im really trying to grasp what happened with the massive PUT orders in early feb. MP's feb report mentioned his ability to stand for the sake of bitcoin, and being well connected, etc... But who was on the other side? Why such orders in bulk at this given period? :/

23:59:15 diametric: asciilifeform: found a device with a ridiculous ppi

23:59:24 asciilifeform: diametric: ?

23:59:47 asciilifeform: (gonna guess: a head-mounted lcd)

23:59:59 diametric: asciilifeform: http://www.phonearena.com/phones/OPPO-Find-7_id8351