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Transcript for 22-04-2014, 2304 lines:

00:02:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2500 @ 0.00013062 = 0.3266 BTC [-] {6}

00:03:06 thestringpuller: publish dat shit

00:03:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.48002102 BTC [-]

00:03:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 110 @ 0.00436006 = 0.4796 BTC [+] {5}

00:03:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.0009937 = 11.0798 BTC [+] {3}

00:09:01 mircea_popescu: "I found myself conversing with a young criminal lawyer who will soon be marrying into the same family that I did last summer. I think this makes us laws-in-laws."

00:09:05 mircea_popescu: funniest shit i read all week

00:31:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49896855 = 0.9979 BTC [+]

00:32:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00445 = 0.178 BTC [+] {2}

00:43:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00739988 = 0.1776 BTC [+] {2}

00:43:21 asciilifeform: dexX7: regular queue! no one bothered to actually search, arse or suitcase, on egress

00:44:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4810062 BTC [-]

00:45:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00445694 = 0.1604 BTC [+]

00:45:12 dexX7: i heard many bad things about arrival, tsa and such but i didn't expect it to be that bad

00:46:15 asciilifeform: davout: the customs at all with all the gear he was carrying << not one guard gave so much as a rat's arse! colour me equally surprised.

00:46:20 asciilifeform: although not quite true

00:46:56 asciilifeform: the american one, on the last exit before dulles parking lot, wanted to know 'what kind of business? software? now say, what kind!'

00:47:14 asciilifeform: me: 'financial, of course. want a demo?'

00:47:26 asciilifeform: muppet: 'no thanks, that door please'

00:48:20 asciilifeform: davout, others: i've a vast collection of pics, of various things, will eventually sort and post one or two.

00:49:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.49628404 = 3.9703 BTC [+] {4}

00:49:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00099425 = 18.2942 BTC [+]

00:53:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.49999948 = 10 BTC [+] {4}

00:54:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00454263 = 0.477 BTC [+] {3}

00:58:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.4995 = 0.999 BTC [-] {2}

01:00:31 kakobrekla: well, i had the romanian customs scratching my passport with his fingernails for like 10 minutes, asking all sorts of questions.

01:01:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35793 @ 0.00099105 = 35.4727 BTC [-] {3}

01:03:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 38 @ 0.47857315 = 18.1858 BTC [-] {10}

01:06:08 Apocalyptic: heh

01:23:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 35 @ 0.007 = 0.245 BTC [+]

01:26:38 TestingUnoDosTre: thank you assbot

01:29:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0295 = 0.118 BTC [-]

01:29:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4899989 BTC [+]

01:31:51 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla anything good ?

01:35:06 kakobrekla: nah

01:38:03 asciilifeform: loper-os.org/pub/humans

01:39:44 asciilifeform: everyone here should recognize at least one or two of these.

01:40:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.49697762 = 1.9879 BTC [+] {2}

01:41:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol mike looks like he's in trouble in that 1st one

01:43:32 mircea_popescu: actually he looks like he's in trouble throughout. poor him

01:44:51 kakobrekla: apparently i managed not to get doxxed this time

01:46:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00099425 = 4.6233 BTC [+]

01:47:01 mircea_popescu: nobody knoes how you look like!

01:57:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 19 @ 0.006988 = 0.1328 BTC [-]

02:04:42 kakobrekla: illegal, apparently.

02:05:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.07608533 = 0.1522 BTC [+]

02:06:24 cgcardona_: asciilifeform: epic pics. wish I was there.

02:06:42 asciilifeform: cgcardona_: mr. p throws one hell of a party.

02:06:53 cgcardona_: i can only imagine. hopefully next year

02:08:38 cgcardona_: ;;rate asciilifeform 1 #bitcoin-assets regular and posted pics of the 2014 conf

02:08:39 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.

02:09:28 asciilifeform: also, turns out the plastic-and-pluckfoam case thing is a good idea. everything else in my baggage got spindled, save for the contents of the Evil Attache.

02:09:58 asciilifeform: (container pictured in bottom left of last photograph)

02:12:06 mircea_popescu: so anyone ran pagerank on wot yet ?

02:12:29 asciilifeform: ;;ident

02:12:29 gribble: Nick 'asciilifeform', with hostmask 'asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net', is identified as user 'asciilifeform', with GPG key id B98228A001ABFFC7, key fingerprint 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7, and bitcoin address None

02:12:31 asciilifeform: ;;rate davout 1 human!

02:12:33 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user davout has been recorded.

02:12:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5582 @ 0.00099254 = 5.5404 BTC [-]

02:12:50 asciilifeform: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 human!

02:12:51 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.

02:13:32 TestingUnoDosTre: What is hooked up to the oscilloscope in that picture?

02:13:48 asciilifeform: TestingUnoDosTre: rng.

02:13:55 cgcardona_: in person wot-o-meter

02:14:00 asciilifeform: lul

02:14:14 mircea_popescu: not thick enough

02:15:28 TestingUnoDosTre: random number generator?

02:16:05 mircea_popescu: yes part of teh cardano

02:16:13 joecool: nah it's a heart monitor

02:16:59 joecool: nice though, first prototypes?

02:17:11 asciilifeform: joecool: second.

02:17:23 mircea_popescu: actually someone was trying to measure their pulse

02:17:29 mircea_popescu: but too noisy power

02:18:45 asciilifeform: need something like this:

02:18:46 asciilifeform: http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/127422769.png

02:19:18 joecool: http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/humans/1.jpg < you see this? this means you tell lies!

02:19:53 mircea_popescu: how so !?

02:20:02 mircea_popescu: o lol

02:20:06 joecool: mircea_popescu: would be a funny caption for it :)

02:20:14 mircea_popescu: yeah hehe

02:20:28 mircea_popescu: "and this is why you can;t have a penis"

02:20:41 joecool: "you are not the father!"

02:20:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00099254 = 6.7493 BTC [-]

02:21:48 mircea_popescu: "you sure you didn't eat the twix bar ?"

02:21:51 cgcardona_: "the price of btc over time"

02:23:12 mircea_popescu: anway, i'm out. take it ezzy!

02:23:20 cgcardona_: later MP

02:23:39 *: asciilifeform off to regeneration chamber.

02:24:37 cgcardona_: enjoy the charge

02:42:10 moiety: mew

02:44:26 cgcardona_: ;;ticker

02:44:27 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 500.49, Best ask: 501.99, Bid-ask spread: 1.50000, Last trade: 501.99, 24 hour volume: 7222.12107105, 24 hour low: 490.0, 24 hour high: 515.0, 24 hour vwap: 500.068946591

02:45:19 moiety: ;; later tell BingoBoingo nope not moi but it is a manul! had to go look, i'm never there anymore

02:45:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:46:23 moiety: benkay!

02:46:31 moiety: !up benkay`

02:46:31 assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.

02:47:02 moiety: do you even need the up with the ` bit?!

02:47:29 moiety: nvm

02:50:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14523 @ 0.00099375 = 14.4322 BTC [+] {2}

02:51:37 benkay`: apparently!

02:51:46 benkay`: something's hosed with freenode and my nick.

02:54:27 cgcardona_: in the spirit of benkay - PGP keys or GTFO </joke>

02:55:31 joecool: benkay`: /nickserv release benkay yourpassword

02:55:37 joecool: /nick benkay

02:55:41 joecool: ?

02:55:44 joecool: PROFIT!

02:58:29 benkay`: cgcardona_: the difference between us is that my friends in this channel can identify me without my needing to auth. kinda crazy, neh?

02:58:42 benkay`: "friends".

02:59:41 benkay`: joecool: i did that earlier today, released, /nick'd myself, and then set it to autokick again.

03:00:26 moiety: how has everyone been?

03:01:22 benkay`: the landed gentry have been galivanting about romania playing with custom electronics and being generally glamorous

03:01:38 benkay`: http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/humans/

03:02:17 benkay`: how've you been, moiety ?

03:03:18 moiety: that place looks really nice! i havent seen these pictures, I saw the fraudsters ones. everyone looks so cute!

03:03:54 moiety: i've been surviving lol im fine. why did you go to the conf benkay?

03:04:09 moiety: not go **

03:05:15 benkay`: not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years.

03:05:49 moiety: mountain pics??

03:06:06 moiety: did you come to any conclusions?

03:06:44 moiety: i saw kako took a good pic too

03:06:52 benkay`: point clouds

03:07:04 benkay`: and cheapo uav's

03:07:38 benkay`: now it's my job to get us from a where we are to b where we'd like to be which is building cool crap and making money at it

03:08:44 benkay`: but even before that, prototypes.

03:09:02 benkay`: which means banging atoms together. again. still. now.

03:11:49 moiety: gotta lub de atoms

03:12:15 moiety: prototypes of what?

03:13:48 benkay`: perhaps you love the atoms, and perhaps once i did as well, but i tired of the ever-present threat of digit removal.

03:15:45 moiety: i will have this fear to if i ever get to meet a manul

03:15:49 moiety: too*

03:15:57 moiety: also wtf is this shit? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=573801.new#new

03:16:00 benkay`: har those pretty deadly things

03:16:11 benkay`: i was so excited to get my first motoman up 20

03:16:36 benkay`: then i nearly took my own head off with it

03:17:39 moiety: !up benkay`

03:17:39 assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.

03:18:11 moiety: loli like typing !up i kinda wish it was !up [user] good boy!

03:18:49 benkay`: anyways. at the close of that gig i made a rule for myself that i would no longer sit at the controls of machines that could maim or kill me.

03:19:02 moiety: did you see that wee hexapod robot that can roll around in any direction?

03:19:09 moiety: im just looking at motoman

03:19:13 benkay`: perhaps, do share?

03:19:31 benkay`: motoman's just a bog-standard dumb dumb robot mfgr.

03:20:25 benkay`: the up-20 (universal payload, I imagine...) was an impressive device. rated at max for 20Kg, and could swing a payload of that size around at lethal speeds.

03:20:47 benkay`: give or take a moment of inertia or three.

03:20:51 moiety: o.o

03:20:58 moiety: sounds vicious

03:21:11 moiety: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn3FWb-vQQ4

03:21:11 ozbot: MorpHex, the incredible hexapod robot - YouTube

03:22:46 moiety: motoman looks entirely more useful

03:24:26 moiety: motoman looks vicious in action too

03:24:27 benkay`: interesting clockwork contraption.

03:24:41 moiety: some loud isn't it XD

03:26:07 benkay`: servos tend to be that way.

03:29:26 benkay`: anyways, coming projects have to do with floaty things not moving lots of metal around in production lines so the risk is probably bounded to burning my hands (only things that've been paying my meagre wages since time immemorial).

03:30:15 moiety: this thing scares the life out of me, its really fast

03:30:27 moiety: what kind of floaty things?

03:30:51 benkay`: >> cheapo uavs

03:30:57 benkay`: >> point clouds

03:31:03 benkay`: >> floaty things

03:31:12 benkay`: remainder is left as an exercise to the reader.

03:31:18 benkay`: good talkin' to ya, moiety.

03:31:23 benkay`: smell you later.

03:31:37 moiety: i didnt know what they were, i see now

03:31:54 moiety: later benkay, good to see you

03:34:43 moiety: got distracted by this http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleDetails.jsp?arnumber=1677723

03:41:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22409 @ 0.00099181 = 22.2255 BTC [-] {3}

03:46:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.49989099 = 9.9978 BTC [+] {4}

03:51:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.49999714 = 3.5 BTC [+] {2}

03:55:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.0045 = 0.189 BTC [-]

04:07:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1343 @ 0.000079 = 0.1061 BTC [-]

04:09:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00099493 = 23.9778 BTC [+] {2}

04:20:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]

04:24:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.5 = 5.5 BTC [+]

04:29:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00099036 = 3.4663 BTC [-]

04:33:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.0009918 = 2.0828 BTC [+]

04:35:22 moiety: !up benkay`

04:35:22 assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.

04:35:31 benkay`: thanks moiety

04:35:43 moiety: nw :)

04:36:02 benkay`: cowen on piketty: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141218/tyler-cowen/capital-punishment

04:37:42 benkay`: "Last year, the government of the Republic of Cyprus imposed the equivalent of a tax on bank deposits, only to see the tax contribute to, rather than reverse, the island’s economic struggles."

04:38:41 benkay`: would someone please explain precisely what contributions to struggle the Cypress bail in caused to me?

05:20:00 bitcoinpete: Piketty: “there is no natural, spontaneous process to prevent destabilizing, inegalitarian forces from prevailing permanently.” <<destabilizing permanently is super contradictory

05:21:30 bitcoinpete: "The three decades between 1950 and 1980 were truly unusual; the constellation of economic and demographic variables that produced prosperity during that period will probably not be re-created anytime soon." <<pretty much

05:23:39 bitcoinpete: And I know MP caught my article earlier today, so for the rest of you:

05:23:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00099036 = 4.4566 BTC [-]

05:23:50 bitcoinpete: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/consumerism-the-great-equalizer-the-legacy-of-the-french-revolution/

05:23:52 ozbot: Consumerism: The Great Equalizer – The Legacy of the French Revolution | When Bitcoin Met Pete

05:25:29 bitcoinpete: ;;later tell mircea_popescu you make a good point about the last line. as students of history, we ain't forgettin' shit. i'm tempted to re-write it but then your comment wouldn't make any sense. it did feel a bit off as i wrote it...

05:25:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:25:39 artifexd: !up benkay`

05:25:39 assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.

05:27:25 HeySteve: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-21/riders-storm-fictional-letter-explaining-what-going-russia

05:27:26 ozbot: "Riders On The Storm:" A Fictional Letter Explaining What Is Going On In Russia | Zero Hedge

05:28:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.0009893 = 23.3475 BTC [-] {3}

05:36:06 bitcoinpete: More Piketty: "The simple fact is that large wealth taxes do not mesh well with the norms and practices required by a successful and prosperous capitalist democracy. It is hard to find well-functioning societies based on anything other than strong legal, political, and institutional respect and support for their most successful citizens."

05:41:53 BingoBoingo: jurov: RE: Powdered alcohols

05:41:54 BingoBoingo: http://www.google.com/patents/US3795747

05:43:31 bitcoinpete: cheers for now!

05:45:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51299 BTC [+]

05:57:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.50000001 = 1.5 BTC [-]

05:58:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1052 @ 0.0001344 = 0.1414 BTC [+]

05:58:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 212 @ 0.0046469 = 0.9851 BTC [+] {6}

06:00:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 943 @ 0.00013444 = 0.1268 BTC [+] {2}

06:05:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.044879 = 0.1346 BTC [+]

06:06:15 BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/

06:11:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 25 @ 0.51360264 = 12.8401 BTC [+] {4}

06:12:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51687744 = 2.0675 BTC [+] {4}

06:13:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5254 BTC [+]

06:14:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.0048197 = 0.241 BTC [+]

06:15:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3549 @ 0.0009907 = 3.516 BTC [+]

06:16:47 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: the amounts in that article are staggering

06:17:28 moiety: o.o i didn't know thats where Josh spawned from

06:19:11 fluffypony: asciilifeform: that Cardano prototype is REALLY pretty!

06:20:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 101 @ 0.00478 = 0.4828 BTC [-]

06:26:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15833 @ 0.00098833 = 15.6482 BTC [-]

06:33:28 fluffypony: "Takes poker. It’s a game which is also an adult activity due to the money involved." <- broke my brain

06:34:25 HeySteve: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23ni1c/psa_of_bitcoin_scam_by_operators_of/

06:37:26 fluffypony: HeySteve: looks like it's been refunded: https://blockchain.info/tx/d1fb2e48a5c4ff458e50f425a1f5d9c073cbf59cbaec5fb04bc3cb85511ba23f

06:37:32 fluffypony: probably just slipped through the cracks

06:37:54 fluffypony: I've bought a couple of things on CryptoThrift, not blown away by the site but it seems to be a lot better than BitMit

06:37:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00098833 = 20.8043 BTC [-]

06:38:23 HeySteve: ah that's good to know :)

06:40:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00098833 = 7.5607 BTC [-]

06:40:26 HeySteve: BitMit's closure sucked

06:41:20 fluffypony: BitMit sucked in general

06:41:28 HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets...

06:41:52 HeySteve: at the time, the only alternative was CoinGig

06:42:09 fluffypony: ja

06:42:18 fluffypony: best way is to get buyers to rate you on the WoT as well

06:42:56 HeySteve: yeah but where and how is WoT hosted?

06:43:22 fluffypony: ;;later tell moiety did you get your free Denarius from CryptoWimmins yet?

06:43:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:44:18 fluffypony: HeySteve: you'd have to ask nanotube for details, but with the vested interest from all parties in the WoT it isn't going anywhere

06:46:41 HeySteve: sure, it's open source and the data is easily copied, so I guess it could be mirrored easily enough

06:46:49 fluffypony: yep

06:46:53 fluffypony: https://github.com/nanotube/supybot_fixes

06:46:58 fluffypony: looks like it's SQLite

06:47:07 fluffypony: so very easy to re-host if necessary

06:48:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0659999 = 0.198 BTC [+] {3}

06:51:22 HeySteve: right, well I'd very much like to speak to nanotube in any case, in relation to my project

06:51:41 dexX7: do you know any legit website which allows to sign raw transactions after providing the rawtx + privkey? nothing fancy and the less overhead the better

06:52:39 fluffypony: dexX7: afaik blockchain.info has rawtx support

06:52:53 nanotube: HeySteve: fluffypony: fyi, can grab the db files for backup here: http://bitcoin-otc.com/otc/ and the code for the plugins is here https://github.com/nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/

06:52:55 fluffypony: nanotube:)

06:53:05 nanotube: dexX7: you don't want to provide privkeys to any website. :P use a local client.

06:53:15 HeySteve: hey nanotube, thanks :)

06:53:20 nanotube: :)

06:53:41 dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing

06:54:00 HeySteve: nanotube, may I have a word in private?

06:54:06 fluffypony: dexX7: sign offline and then push?

06:54:17 nanotube: HeySteve: sure

06:55:49 dexX7: that's the plan fluffypony. and i'm looking for a way to sign with a minimal setup. like a very simple website + js or similar

06:56:04 fluffypony: dexX7: are you looking to automate it or do it manually?

06:56:44 dexX7: actually i'm writing a tutorial for

06:56:47 dexX7: http://redeem.bitwatch.co

06:56:48 ozbot: Redeem multisig txs

06:57:10 fluffypony: oic oic

06:57:23 fluffypony: ok so then can't you use blockchain.info to push it once it's signed?

06:57:52 dexX7: signing via bitcoind is simple but i'd like to cover more ways

06:58:33 dexX7: pushing via bci works of cource but the tx needs to be signed first

06:59:47 dexX7: something like http://brainwallet.org/#tx where you only need to input an unsigned tx + privkey (unfortunally this does not work with brainwallet.org for whatever reason)

07:03:34 fluffypony: brb breakfast

07:14:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00098866 = 3.5592 BTC [+] {2}

07:38:32 dignork: dexX7: don't want to beat a dead horse, but puting anythin + privkey into browser is a bad idea, unless for some reason you run it on an oflline machine

07:39:19 dignork: s/oflline/offline hate mornings

07:42:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00450101 = 0.4861 BTC [-]

07:43:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 65 @ 0.00450018 = 0.2925 BTC [-] {2}

07:49:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50851001 BTC [-]

07:50:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 215 @ 0.00449994 = 0.9675 BTC [+] {3}

07:51:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 23 @ 0.0045 = 0.1035 BTC [+]

07:56:40 fluffypony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vykJwKfXnpw

07:56:41 ozbot: Keith Saltojanes: WTF Is Bitcoin - YouTube

07:57:02 *: fluffypony chuckled

08:05:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52538 BTC [+]

08:06:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00098833 = 12.6506 BTC [-]

08:08:11 jurov: <davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D

08:18:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00098994 = 31.8761 BTC [+] {3}

08:24:49 BingoBoingo: http://www.libressl.org/

08:24:51 ozbot: LibreSSL

08:26:27 fluffypony: lol

08:26:52 fluffypony: of course Comic Sans

08:26:56 fluffypony: "This page scientifically designed to annoy web hipsters. Donate now to stop the Comic Sans and Blink Tags"

08:28:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6678 @ 0.00099122 = 6.6194 BTC [+] {2}

08:37:48 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: If you hate comic sans so much why even have it installed?

08:38:08 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: please point to the part of the sentence where I said I hate it

08:51:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]

08:55:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 53 @ 0.00403551 = 0.2139 BTC [-] {5}

08:56:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00431648 = 0.1338 BTC [+] {2}

09:00:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 23 @ 0.50132825 = 11.5305 BTC [-] {6}

09:06:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.029 = 0.435 BTC [-] {2}

09:10:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00099175 = 31.9344 BTC [+] {2}

09:12:52 HeySteve: here is that article I mentioned: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/sorcerer-hiva-oa-paul-gauguin-available-90000-btc/2014/04/22

09:14:28 mircea_popescu: lol so gigaom is promoting coindesk ? oh how very surprising.

09:16:45 mircea_popescu: HeySteve dude wtf, 45mn seriously ?

09:16:52 mircea_popescu: when has gauguin ever sold for 40mn ?

09:17:26 mircea_popescu: http://www.artnet.com/artists/paul-gauguin/cylindre-au-christ-?-l-idole-b4sGfNf9LAv7N214A3Uq6A2

09:17:35 mircea_popescu: there, buy a copper dildo he made for ... 20k usd.

09:18:29 mircea_popescu: Te Po sold for what, half a mil or w/e

09:18:31 HeySteve: it's a tremendous sum

09:18:32 mircea_popescu: !up rabite

09:18:32 assbot: Voicing rabite for 30 minutes.

09:18:40 mircea_popescu: HeySteve it's laughable.

09:18:43 mircea_popescu: !up sunshyne

09:18:43 assbot: Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.

09:19:00 HeySteve: however, that value was estimated in one of the linked stories I believe

09:19:08 HeySteve: involving the NFL star's ponzi scheme

09:19:10 mircea_popescu: i mean i guess the idea is that bitcoiners are so fucking rich and clueless that they have no idea what's what, so they may throw 100k btc on something worth 1% of that.

09:19:16 mircea_popescu: god knows they've been doing it with all the ipos

09:19:40 mircea_popescu: HeySteve i tell you i dun see it. i estimate it to be worth in the 90-190 btc range. now what ?

09:19:46 HeySteve: well, I don't expect it will sell for bitcoin, more likely for USD if they get their price (which may be lower than their asking)

09:20:20 mircea_popescu: i'll bet you it won't sell for 40mn usd or equiv.

09:20:24 HeySteve: well it's worth what people will pay for it I guess.

09:20:36 HeySteve: heh I don't know enough about fine art to want to take that bet

09:20:51 HeySteve: I'm just reporting what the seller's agent told me

09:21:29 HeySteve: still, anything above 12 million would make it the most expensive thing offered for btc to my knowledge

09:22:42 mircea_popescu: HeySteve don't get me wrong, i'm not laying into you personally or anything

09:22:52 mircea_popescu: jus... doing the topic justice as it were.

09:24:44 Naphex: morning

09:24:46 HeySteve: sure thing, I think many people will have questions at that price especially considering the piece's history

09:24:51 mircea_popescu: Naphex hey

09:24:54 HeySteve: hi

09:26:32 fluffypony: I started a blog that I'm aiming to update extremely sporadically and only when I particularly feel like it

09:26:43 fluffypony: http://blog.spagni.net/posts/2014-04-22/

09:27:33 HeySteve: fluffypony I get a server not found error in FF

09:27:48 fluffypony: HeySteve: oh new CNAME, may not have propogated yet

09:28:24 fluffypony: although it is multicast so I dunno, ZA DNS providers are just slow and stupid

09:31:07 cazalla: loads here

09:31:43 mircea_popescu: HeySteve good sign your isp is an asshole.

09:31:50 mircea_popescu: prolly runs you through crappy local dns servers

09:32:28 HeySteve: given the stability of my connection, I'd say it's confirmed they are

09:32:53 fluffypony: HeySteve: who you with? mwub?

09:33:10 HeySteve: yeah fluffypony, although problem could also be on telkom side

09:33:31 HeySteve: mircea_popescu I found another of his oil paintings going for nearly $10 mil

09:33:33 fluffypony: HeySteve: when the wind blows or it rains our connection goes down, welcome to Africa

09:33:35 HeySteve: http://www.findartinfo.com/search/listprices.asp?keyword=17524&name=Paul-Gauguin

09:33:36 ozbot: Art auction result for artist Paul Gauguin. Free art prices

09:33:57 HeySteve: fluffypony, yep had a lightning strike and it's been erratic ever since.

09:34:16 HeySteve: phone call interrupts connection but only rings once, etc. very tedious.

09:34:55 fluffypony: we had that, and it turned out that our splitter thingy was bust, Telkom tech just replaced it

09:35:32 mircea_popescu: fluffypony you ever seen white cat/black cat ?

09:35:38 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: nope/

09:35:55 mircea_popescu: great somalian film. in it there's a scene where old woman can't talk on cellphone

09:36:16 mircea_popescu: sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything)

09:36:20 mircea_popescu: fixes her problem.

09:36:25 fluffypony: LOL

09:36:48 mircea_popescu: film also has interspersed scenes of a hog eating a trabant

09:36:53 mircea_popescu: if you know what those are.

09:37:14 fluffypony: like the car?

09:37:18 HeySteve: fluffypony, don't think it's the splitter, got a new one. think water is getting in the line somehow

09:38:15 mircea_popescu: yep

09:38:51 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: wife is East German, so I've learnt about a lot of that stuff, especially from her grandparents

09:38:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.00699967 = 0.217 BTC [+] {2}

09:39:14 fluffypony: her grandfather (maternal) was a professor of economics, incredibly gifted man, who is now suffering from dementia

09:39:49 fluffypony: it's quite sad because he'll have these flashes when we've been talking about Bitcoin where he'll understand everything and comment with incredible depth

09:39:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00024999 = 0.125 BTC [+]

09:40:08 fluffypony: and then five seconds later forget how to eat properly

09:40:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.519998 BTC [+]

09:41:02 mircea_popescu: "We would also let you know that a letter is also attached to your package. However, we cannot quote its content to you via E-mail for privacy reasons. We understand that the content of your package itself is a Bank Draft worth $800,000.00 USD; in FedEx we do not ship money in CASH or in CHEQUE but in Bank Drafts only."

09:41:02 mircea_popescu: logical.

09:41:25 mircea_popescu: fluffypony that sucks.

09:43:18 cazalla: how old is he fluffypony

09:43:39 cazalla: my opa died last year, his dementia dragged on for about 5 years

09:44:04 fluffypony: cazalla: 75

09:44:16 mircea_popescu: !up Rick__

09:44:16 assbot: Voicing Rick__ for 30 minutes.

09:44:16 fluffypony: shame that sucks

09:44:36 Rick__: looking for arji

09:44:39 cazalla: seems young, my opa was 94

09:44:46 Rick__: ask about my money

09:44:59 fluffypony: cazalla: yeah he has it quite young

09:45:06 mircea_popescu: ;;seen arij

09:45:06 gribble: arij was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <arij> pLambert, yes, pm me

09:45:35 cazalla: according to 23andme, it's my highest risk disease too

09:45:41 fluffypony: :/

09:45:58 fluffypony: I live in fear of that

09:46:03 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic what's crypton do ?

09:47:58 cazalla: i don't tbh as i'm still relatively young and by the time i'm old, perhaps there will be a cure

09:49:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 60 @ 0.00179766 = 0.1079 BTC [-] {2}

09:49:34 fluffypony: cazalla: true that

09:51:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00099382 = 6.3108 BTC [+] {2}

10:03:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.0118 = 0.1062 BTC [-]

10:07:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0655 = 0.1965 BTC [-]

10:12:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14074 @ 0.00098819 = 13.9078 BTC [-] {3}

10:18:59 mircea_popescu: oh for the love of all that's holy.

10:19:52 mircea_popescu: so there's this romanian rap band, bug mafia. it exists since the 90s, it was one of the first in the sense someone in bitcoin since 2010 is "one of the first". they're to this day the best by a very very fat margin.

10:20:11 mircea_popescu: then one day i use one of their lines as a title for a post, and i get the #1 spot by morning.

10:20:48 mircea_popescu: google is racist, basically.

10:23:24 fluffypony: yeah but wouldn't your competition be lyrics sites?

10:23:58 mircea_popescu: they have their own official site and everything. problem is, they don't have much english support on the web, being.. you know, a romanian language band.

10:24:25 mircea_popescu: this would be the definition of racism : 10 units of e + 1 unit of r is more than 0e + 100 r.

10:24:26 fluffypony: ah

10:24:39 fluffypony: I wonder if your post would show up first for Romanian language results

10:25:04 mircea_popescu: problem is [most] everyone in romania uses english google

10:25:09 mircea_popescu: (and english kbds, for that matter)

10:25:12 fluffypony: ah

10:25:30 Naphex: mircea_popescu: BUG Mafia, you repping mircea?:p

10:25:32 fluffypony: quite unlike the Germans who won't use it if it's not in German

10:25:33 mircea_popescu: because w/e, romanians were liek teh first on the internet.

10:25:37 Naphex: always tought you a Parazitii man

10:25:46 mircea_popescu: fluffypony exactyly the opposite yeah

10:25:56 mircea_popescu: Naphex i actually like them both. which i guess is somewhat rare.

10:26:32 mircea_popescu: fluffypony as far as romanians are concerned, the 90s were spent going "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, does it suck ?

10:26:45 mircea_popescu: maybe that's starting to fade, but defo hasn't yet.

10:27:58 mircea_popescu: Naphex btw, this is what you've missed : http://fraudsters.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/

10:28:21 Naphex: next year

10:28:41 mircea_popescu: cool

10:29:12 Naphex: had my own party this weekend, chilling and doing nothing at all :)

10:29:27 mircea_popescu: kinda rthe idea

10:29:55 mircea_popescu: some peeps' first encounter of the proper european lunch, where you spend a few good hours with your food.

10:30:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 924 @ 0.000135 = 0.1247 BTC [+]

10:31:06 fluffypony: it's the only way to eat

10:31:42 fluffypony: it should almost blend into supper time, so you top it off towards the evening without needing to eat an entire other meal

10:32:15 mircea_popescu: either that or move to drinking.

10:32:46 fluffypony: yep

10:34:55 mircea_popescu: a btw, to bother everyone : local isp just unveiled its easter surprise w/e.

10:35:00 mircea_popescu: 200mbps. 19euro.

10:35:18 bounce: glass? symmetric?

10:35:32 mircea_popescu: glass yeah. no, you get like 1/8 that ul.

10:35:54 mircea_popescu: you can get it symmetric, but it's not really useful or needed for most end users.

10:36:21 Naphex: mircea_popescu: in oradea Tesari/RDS has Fiberlink 1G/s at 59RON

10:36:28 Naphex: ~16USD

10:36:38 mircea_popescu: AND they will layer it for you. you can get 1tbps both ways in this country, and it won't break your bank.

10:36:45 fluffypony: jealous.

10:36:51 mircea_popescu: Naphex lol

10:37:03 *: fluffypony looks at his 4mbps connection currently syncing at 2.4mbps

10:37:20 mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah. ppl are liek... "how come romania?!?!" and i'm like... dude, how long you got ?

10:37:33 fluffypony: heh

10:39:23 mircea_popescu: Naphex oradea is like rds homebase is it ?

10:39:30 Naphex: yep

10:39:40 mircea_popescu: better juice closer to the plant :D

10:39:40 Naphex: it started here, with TVS (The TV network)

10:40:05 mircea_popescu: actually upc arguably started as astral, which you know... got started by the father of a chick i was doing back in hs

10:40:07 mircea_popescu: he hated me.

10:40:38 Naphex: hehe

10:40:48 bounce: it doesn't really make sense to throttle the uplink on glass, though. it's likely just throttled gigabit.

10:40:53 Naphex: is there no RDS in TM?:)

10:41:03 bounce: good for the gamer kids though, "low ping"

10:41:05 mircea_popescu: Naphex sure there is.

10:41:15 mircea_popescu: bounce they save on gear upstream is all.

10:41:30 mircea_popescu: see, for instance, the whole town is full of fiber spools hanging from poles

10:41:36 mircea_popescu: because rather than buy the cutter they just don't cut it.

10:41:45 mircea_popescu: spool it up, stick it in the box.

10:42:40 bounce: like you're ever going to take it out and put it somewhere else. even so, throttling the uplink doesn't really buy you much of anything, hardware wise

10:42:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00098533 = 7.8826 BTC [-]

10:43:04 mircea_popescu: no, but it does bw wise.

10:43:26 mircea_popescu: romania could, on the basis of end user installed gateways, nuke the rest of hte planet off the internet

10:43:30 mircea_popescu: and... it would.

10:44:02 Naphex: its true :)

10:44:06 mircea_popescu: just imagine you have something like 10mn customers doing 1gbit uplink each

10:44:11 mircea_popescu: and now find me a peer that'll relay this.

10:44:14 bounce: depends on how the transit agreements work. some places actually liked generating more bandwidth "the other way", as it pushed the balance a bit more towards evening out

10:46:45 mircea_popescu: so basically, if they actually allowed the uplink they'd have to have a filtering datacenter.

10:46:49 mircea_popescu: cheaper this way.

10:47:18 mircea_popescu: (and even if it isn't, i'm pretty sure that's their rationale)

10:51:32 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bitcoinpete you're #10 on a google search for "bitcoin pete". while your twitter acct is #1.

10:51:32 gribble: The operation succeeded.

10:51:52 mircea_popescu: google is racist : it will push profiles in twitter BUT NOT facebook. it will push wikipedia articles.

10:52:03 mircea_popescu: basically it has a shortlist of websites that it gives preferential treatment to.

10:52:08 mircea_popescu: curious how long till the lolsuit.

10:52:17 Naphex: they have been doing that for ages

10:52:23 Naphex: twinking PageRank for domains

10:52:35 Naphex: that that product split with Google Now / Google

10:52:48 Naphex: then they merged together in the current version, which will always have preferential PageRank

10:52:58 mircea_popescu: Naphex but see, that's the snag : they used to do it as a per-domain page rank thing.

10:53:01 mircea_popescu: meanwhile they took that out,

10:53:16 mircea_popescu: and simply replaced with a handwritten list, either our friends or everyone else.

10:53:38 Naphex: yep you get filtered down and placed in a bubble

11:00:06 mircea_popescu: benkay`:

11:00:07 mircea_popescu: not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years. << so you had brosex.

11:01:16 mircea_popescu: "Bringing Cryptocurrency To Women Worldwide, CryptoMoms.com Launches" ahaha how fucktarded can you get.

11:01:25 mircea_popescu: the better women aren't moms, yo.

11:03:44 mircea_popescu: http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=100 << bash #100. qft.

11:06:40 mircea_popescu: HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets... << which is why wot.

11:07:41 mircea_popescu: dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing << there's a reason for this. you shoulodn't be providing privkeys.

11:08:07 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah that's exactly what I said

11:08:14 mircea_popescu: yeah i see

11:08:38 fluffypony: although tbh I don't know why sites like that and BTCJam etc. don't just integrate with the WoT

11:08:54 fluffypony: instead of reinventing the wheel (and doing so badly)

11:09:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 58 @ 0.00743106 = 0.431 BTC [+] {2}

11:10:20 HeySteve: mircea_popescu, quite so. I spoke to nanotube about integrating WoT with a cryptocurrency

11:10:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00750003 = 0.18 BTC [+] {2}

11:10:49 mircea_popescu: HeySteve i don't follow ? the wot is integrated with any cryptocurrency as it is. i can and have rated people for say... atc deals.

11:11:02 mircea_popescu: fluffypony because idiocy.

11:11:13 HeySteve: sure, but putting the identity and associated ratings into a blockchain

11:11:30 HeySteve: been working on this for a while

11:11:38 mircea_popescu: fluffypony and in the case of btcjam, because they know they're running a scam platform. it'd make no sense to take any steps that make this more obvious than it actually is.

11:12:12 mircea_popescu: HeySteve so like a sort of a db backup maintained distributedly ?

11:12:26 HeySteve: yep that's it

11:12:45 mircea_popescu: i know nanotube was working on a wot 2.0 that'd be distributed and not depend on him

11:12:52 mircea_popescu: seeing how he's all old and frail and will eventually go.

11:12:59 HeySteve: and associating costs with establishing an identity and rating people may improve the system slightly

11:13:13 HeySteve: I have a further idea to incentivise non-scammy behaviour too

11:13:22 mircea_popescu: no.

11:13:27 mircea_popescu: incentives do not belong in the wot.

11:13:32 mircea_popescu: gotta keep it separated

11:14:12 HeySteve: hmm, why do you say that?

11:15:00 mircea_popescu: why do i say what ?!

11:15:13 HeySteve: <+mircea_popescu> incentives do not belong in the wot.

11:15:54 mircea_popescu: because the wot is the measure of how people respond to incentives, it makes no sense to change its neutrality to add incentives for particular responses.

11:16:05 Apocalyptic: can't agree more

11:17:03 HeySteve: ah. well as I see it, bad behaviour leads to negative rep which makes future trades less likely and the inverse is true. that's how I use the term incentives.

11:17:15 mircea_popescu: that's exactly how it works now.

11:17:31 HeySteve: right, but my idea is to augment that

11:18:35 mircea_popescu: let me make this point clearer through an example. suppose i go to a village in somalia. this village has 100 people and they're all normal people, they do good and bad things by w/e definition of good and bad.

11:18:50 mircea_popescu: i own more money than the entire village is worth, a million times over.

11:19:24 mircea_popescu: so i say to these people : each day you only do good deeds, you will receive your average yearly income. but for every bad deed you do, you get fined x% of that.

11:19:37 mircea_popescu: now, this obviously will make everyone do nothing but good deeds (presuming rational actors),

11:19:45 mircea_popescu: but it will also make it impossible for women to pick mates.

11:19:56 mircea_popescu: because... well... what the fuck, everyone's doing good deeds whether they're good men or not.

11:20:08 mircea_popescu: and so through incentivising good behaviour i managed to... break the wot.

11:20:15 mircea_popescu: once i leave that village is fucked.

11:20:22 mircea_popescu: and now you also understand why western aid ruins africa.

11:21:01 fluffypony: incentivised ratings also opens the incentives themselves to Sybil attacks, no?

11:21:28 mircea_popescu: exactly.

11:22:03 fluffypony: all I need to do is create a number of fake actors and claim they only did good deeds today (each fake actor supporting the other) and I receive average yearly income * the number of fake actors I've created

11:23:13 HeySteve: sure, but in the WoT there is no cost to create sockpuppets

11:23:23 mircea_popescu: exactly.

11:23:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.52420746 = 26.2104 BTC [+] {11}

11:23:53 HeySteve: right, to register an identity within this system there would be a BTC cost

11:23:56 fluffypony: HeySteve: yes

11:24:04 fluffypony: but spotting the sockpuppets is easy

11:24:14 mircea_popescu: HeySteve this counterintuitively makes your system weaker.

11:24:21 fluffypony: HeySteve: http://fraudsters.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/

11:24:33 mircea_popescu: because the cost is not a discouragement to the sybil, if it has a way to turn a profit

11:24:36 fluffypony: followed by: http://fraudsters.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/

11:24:38 mircea_popescu: but it IS a discouragement to the legit members.

11:24:47 HeySteve: fluffypony I have studied that article in some depth

11:24:48 mircea_popescu: and so through adding a cost you're actually skewing it towards scammers.

11:25:16 mircea_popescu: this is much ampler discussed in this older article : http://fraudsters.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/

11:25:21 HeySteve: well, I want to make the signup cost vastly more expensive than the cost of earning rep through good behaviour

11:25:43 fluffypony: so then you're chasing away legitimate users

11:25:45 mircea_popescu: this does not speak to the problem.

11:26:01 fluffypony: I won't pay to use the system when there's a perfectly good free one I'm already on :-P

11:26:25 HeySteve: heh well, I hope we can satisfy such concerns and build something useful

11:26:56 HeySteve: appreciate discussing it with people who understand the WoT in depth

11:26:56 mircea_popescu: HeySteve understand tho : this is not quite unlike solid state physics, or radioastronomy.

11:27:25 mircea_popescu: i can respect your desire to build a better process for refining hahnium, or for resolving doppler aberrations in telescopy.

11:27:36 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, these are not tasks of the same nature as mowing the lawn.

11:27:48 Naphex: while we're talking incetives, any opinion on a good referral system for bitcoin exchange users?

11:28:30 mircea_popescu: Naphex referrals markets is a TOTAL mess in btc.

11:28:35 fluffypony: Naphex: what do you mean? like an affiliate-style system?

11:28:38 mircea_popescu: bitbet has a very sweet one, and it's barely used.

11:28:49 mircea_popescu: that's actually one major thing to do. yo fluffypony what did you do for a living ? or cazalla ?

11:29:04 Naphex: some customers keep asking for one

11:29:36 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: one of the directors of a small group of companies, of which OpenRigs is a part

11:29:37 Naphex: more like just rewarding users for inviting other users

11:29:59 mircea_popescu: someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank

11:30:04 fluffypony: agreed

11:30:14 *: fluffypony puts it on his list of future projects

11:30:16 mircea_popescu: affiliate advertising is going to be major in this space, and currently it's way the fuck nowhere.

11:32:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52898999 BTC [+]

11:33:12 Naphex: well i was just thinking, rewarding inviters with 0.0001 upon each withdrawal by an invitee

11:33:18 Naphex: some incentive there o.o

11:33:45 fluffypony: Naphex: I've seen some REALLY good affiliate systems that do very small lifetime rewards

11:34:09 fluffypony: eg. for every referred customer you get 2% of their fees forever

11:34:27 Naphex: along the lines where i was thinking:P

11:34:28 fluffypony: small enough that the guy referring one or two customers won't care

11:34:32 Naphex: but we run 0% comission soooo :)

11:34:35 fluffypony: but at scale it's amazing

11:34:35 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

11:34:48 fluffypony: Naphex: so your fees are withdrawal only, no trade fees?

11:35:05 Naphex: no trade fees, some fees at withdrawal fiats, and 0.0001 at BTC withdrawal

11:35:20 Naphex: fees for fiat withdrawal are basic bank fees

11:36:01 fluffypony: are you priming the system to attract an audience before raising fees, or are you just very altruistic company?

11:36:03 fluffypony: :-P

11:36:06 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you there ?

11:36:17 Naphex: fluffypony: we are raising fees at some point

11:37:15 fluffypony: Naphex: it's going to be tough to incentivise affiliates without that, rock and a hard place scenario

11:37:49 HeySteve: perhaps I'm being thick but I don't see how http://fraudsters.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/ applies to blockchain WoT. Nigerians pic made me lol though

11:37:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 265 @ 0.00084295 = 0.2234 BTC [+]

11:38:05 mircea_popescu: HeySteve it applies to the problem of putting a cost on the user.

11:38:15 mircea_popescu: fluffypony the romanian expression is "suntem pe investitii"

11:38:24 Naphex: :))

11:38:47 HeySteve: well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble

11:38:49 mircea_popescu: to translate this, some history : romania was a communist country. to get it on a capitalist system, anyone not fucktarded enough was simply given money, from the state.

11:38:51 mircea_popescu: yes, just like that.

11:39:03 mircea_popescu: if you had any sort of a clue and could talk the talk of business, you just got money.

11:39:18 mircea_popescu: exactly the way i handle btc, incidentally. just don't sound like the lumpens and you'll be okay.

11:39:43 mircea_popescu: this resulted in all the moral hazard you might expect, but also into the most fiscally stable country in europe, and with stores of physical gold per capita well above everyone else

11:40:13 mircea_popescu: one of the edge cases of that moral hazard were idiot "business men" who thought they actually have a clue, but in fact were products of a fortunate environment like that.

11:40:23 mircea_popescu: notably, some of these magnates "invested" in media.

11:40:49 mircea_popescu: their investments fared about as well as neobee's, a few degrees of magnitude larger.

11:41:09 mircea_popescu: one of the best examples is a fellow known as varanul, ie dan voiculescu

11:41:24 Naphex: hehe

11:41:50 mircea_popescu: this schmuck was given something to the tune of a few bn usd, and ten years later he had to have a very embarassing 100mn sent to him in the middle of the electoral campaign,

11:41:54 mircea_popescu: because he was out of fucking money.

11:42:14 mircea_popescu: think about it, you give a schmuck 1bn and legal immunity, you'd fucking expect he can pay you 100mn a year for the rest of all eternity.

11:42:17 mircea_popescu: not this guy tho.

11:42:23 mircea_popescu: and not the only example, either.

11:42:56 mircea_popescu: and hence, the "suntem pe investitii" expression, which is what said idiots said about their media "empires", for 3-4 years

11:43:03 mircea_popescu: "we're in investment mode"

11:43:44 fluffypony: crazy

11:43:50 mircea_popescu: then suddenly they ran out of money, the bottom fell out of the market, and the 20-30k or so idiots who really thought there can exist such a thing as a "career in media" upon the basis of which they could like... take bank loans and buy houses and cars

11:44:02 mircea_popescu: discovered they have to suck my cock for a soup each day they wish to eat a soup.

11:44:16 fluffypony: sounds like that 17 year old "CEO" from the other day

11:44:33 mircea_popescu: not so far off. one of the schmucks made petrom, which is exactly copied after bp

11:44:35 mircea_popescu: even to the logo.

11:45:20 dexX7: <mircea_popescu> someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank < what is a clickbank?

11:45:31 mircea_popescu: rompetrol im sorry not petrom

11:45:32 Naphex: which got sold off tooo OMV in early 2006

11:45:32 fluffypony: dexX7: affiliate marketplace, basically

11:45:44 mircea_popescu: dexX7 this is where we google ?

11:46:02 mircea_popescu: Naphex check that shit out, they evenb have the entire coin* bit* issue going

11:46:12 mircea_popescu: im confusing rompetrol and petrom like i'd confuse bitfuck and fuckcoin

11:46:17 dexX7: oh i assumed you made this word up

11:46:50 mircea_popescu: anyway. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/ROMPETROL.png << rompetrol ; http://www.edmundburkeinstitute.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Bp.jpg << bp

11:47:38 fluffypony: lol

11:50:50 mircea_popescu: anyway, to close that up : perhaps the most lucid of thoise 20-30k idiots is a fellow named cristi parvan. this guy http://www.parvan.ro/

11:52:23 mircea_popescu: si pentru cine cunoaste, http://fraudsters.com/2011/particip-la-ronewmedia-60/#comment-99026

11:55:55 Naphex: i never read blogs, or cared much about them

11:56:05 Naphex: where are you pulling this guys out of O.o

11:56:05 Naphex: :D

11:56:27 mircea_popescu: you see, i had an intel department for years before i found bitcoin

11:56:52 mircea_popescu: overnight success is the result of fortunate coincidences like that.

11:56:54 mircea_popescu: !up hansi001

11:56:54 assbot: Voicing hansi001 for 30 minutes.

11:58:56 Naphex: mircea_popescu: running intel on what?:p

11:59:11 mircea_popescu: well yes.

12:02:13 mircea_popescu: <HeySteve> well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble << more like an intellectual cost. this is good, because idiots don't manage to figure out how to do it, which serves us and them.

12:02:27 mircea_popescu: replacing that with a financial cost only works if you live in a functioning market economy,

12:02:39 mircea_popescu: which is an economy in which the government accounts for 1% or less of the gdp

12:05:38 mircea_popescu: !up awrelll

12:05:38 assbot: Voicing awrelll for 30 minutes.

12:06:02 HeySteve: I hear what you're saying about the IQ barrier of GPG. we don't aim to replace that, only add to it

12:06:04 awrelll: FixmypcRO here

12:06:19 mircea_popescu: aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience.

12:08:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098645 = 12.8239 BTC [+]

12:09:30 mircea_popescu: awrelll mircea_popescu> aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience. << this was for you.

12:09:56 davout: hi all

12:10:11 kakobrekla: heya

12:10:29 fluffypony: davout: bonjour

12:10:39 HeySteve: hello

12:11:16 Naphex: hey

12:11:41 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: home safe?

12:12:03 davout: Naphex: i was a little disappointed to not see you in timisoara

12:12:24 Naphex: davout: i would've come but it was all out of VIP tickets

12:12:26 Naphex: hehe

12:12:36 Naphex: its only a 1.30 -> 2h drive to there

12:12:38 Naphex: but next year

12:12:48 awrelll: salut, nu am inteles foarte clar ce anume cauti, eram interesat de o colaborare in caz ca sunt potrivit

12:12:52 davout: next year might be quite a longer drive :-)

12:13:28 mircea_popescu: awrelll you speak english ?

12:13:39 awrelll: i do

12:13:48 mircea_popescu: cool. so. tell me about your experience as an affiliate manager.

12:14:42 Naphex: bit of a stage fright there i figure

12:15:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4462 @ 0.00098645 = 4.4015 BTC [+]

12:15:39 awrelll: i am not sure if i qualify, i wanted to know more about this, sorry if i am wasting your time

12:15:50 ThickAsThieves: hello folks

12:15:56 Naphex: hey o/

12:15:57 davout: ThickAsThieves: hi

12:15:58 mircea_popescu: well basically the idea is i need someone with significant experience.

12:16:02 ThickAsThieves: i've got some catching up to do

12:16:13 mircea_popescu: jesus they voice everyone in here these days. ThickAsThieves when did you get out!

12:17:35 ThickAsThieves: just woke up after catching up on personal life and sleep

12:17:46 ThickAsThieves: <+fluffypony> ThickAsThieves: home safe? /// i think the airport gifted me a cold

12:17:59 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: that's the worst :/

12:18:00 ThickAsThieves: we'll see if it takes full form

12:18:06 mircea_popescu: mpoe-pr got one too.

12:18:06 ThickAsThieves: for now just an itchy nose

12:21:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]

12:22:29 Naphex: so how'd you guys enjoy Romania?:)

12:23:09 davout: Naphex: Romania is very nice

12:23:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06434114 = 0.193 BTC [-]

12:23:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]

12:23:42 Naphex: did mircea take you out to see the vampires and cheeky girls ?:)

12:25:28 ThickAsThieves: Romania was enjoyable

12:25:36 ThickAsThieves: pretty, walkable

12:25:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-]

12:25:50 ThickAsThieves: no vamps tho

12:26:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-] {2}

12:26:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6374 @ 0.00098529 = 6.2802 BTC [-] {2}

12:27:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.52892571 = 3.7025 BTC [+] {2}

12:28:03 ThickAsThieves: ;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central, puts the french back in the fries

12:28:04 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user davout has been recorded.

12:28:40 ThickAsThieves: ;;rate kakobrekla 3 pumps the #bitcoin-assets blood, bitbet

12:28:41 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.

12:29:29 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: no vamps tho << should've gone with me on expedition at night. i flushed out the wild dog packs that i -knew- existed.

12:29:42 ThickAsThieves: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 makes stuff for No Such lAbs, intellectual and storyteller

12:29:43 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.

12:30:33 davout: asciilifeform: did they accept you as their new leader?

12:30:56 mircea_popescu: lol

12:31:11 asciilifeform: davout: i was too big. they were all little beagles, other miniature animals

12:31:35 davout: asciilifeform: it's not the size, it's the smell that counts :D

12:32:17 asciilifeform: funny these beasts - the dogs 900km east, of my childhood, were active in the day.

12:32:53 ThickAsThieves: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 MPEx and other businesses, a most reliable voice of reason

12:32:54 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 1 to 3.

12:33:34 asciilifeform: other phun phact - the weirdo allergies i suffered since 1995 shut off like a light bulb when i landed in Ro.

12:33:57 asciilifeform: me sorry carcass hates teh 'new world.'

12:34:01 mircea_popescu: most us allergies are allergies to the us.

12:34:18 asciilifeform: i suspected that this was literally true, for my own case

12:34:21 asciilifeform: now, know.

12:34:44 ThickAsThieves: ;;rate mike_c 3 Making cool stuff yet to be seen by the masses, ATC supporter

12:34:45 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.

12:34:53 mircea_popescu: i just wonder if large scale gmo will also yield some mutant hay fevers

12:35:05 mircea_popescu: maybe you can get bubonic hay fever

12:35:37 asciilifeform: whatever the crud is, it gives me problems year round here.

12:35:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.52979 = 5.2979 BTC [+] {2}

12:36:01 mircea_popescu: a nerdier man would have brought home air samples.

12:36:08 mircea_popescu: spectrometry ftw!

12:36:12 mircea_popescu: !up rammy2k2

12:36:12 assbot: Voicing rammy2k2 for 30 minutes.

12:36:17 rammy2k2: hey

12:36:20 rammy2k2: salut mircea_popescu

12:36:23 rammy2k2: :)

12:36:26 mircea_popescu: hi.

12:36:39 davout: "a nerdier man would have brought home air samples." <<< lmao

12:37:06 mircea_popescu: davout im kinda curious what the difference'd be.

12:37:12 asciilifeform: lol, could be something more interesting (washington too close to equator by x km; magnetic field crapolade; etc)

12:37:20 mircea_popescu: course you need a pretty large air sample to get anything usable at the ppb range

12:37:36 mircea_popescu: ;;google washington dc latitude

12:37:36 gribble: Latitude and Longitude of U.S. and Canadian Cities | Infoplease.com: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001796.html; 107 World cities by latitude: Things line up in surprising ways: http://www.priceoftravel.com/1063/107-world-cities-by-latitude-things-line-up-in-surprising-ways/; List of cities by latitude - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (1 more message)

12:38:17 davout: mircea_popescu: the air sample thing kinda contradicts the discussion about how some stuff could be developed to work only in certain places, maybe that's the case for allergies too

12:38:18 mircea_popescu: 38 53 77 02 vs 45.7597? N, 21.2300? E

12:38:28 asciilifeform: hell knows, maybe i need 50hz mains hum instead of 60.

12:38:34 asciilifeform: that's the problem with systems.

12:38:48 mircea_popescu: but that wouldn't reallhy be an allergy.

12:38:51 mircea_popescu: kinda need a protein

12:39:04 davout: asciilifeform: just be pragmatic, move to romania, there's this beagles pack that patiently awaits its master's return

12:39:22 ThickAsThieves: ;;rate jurov 3 CoinBr, Coinroll, helped me transfer shares at times, kept me safe during a Bitfunder scare

12:39:24 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 1 to 3.

12:39:24 asciilifeform: lul, me canine army awaits.

12:39:25 mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 you speak english ?

12:39:35 rammy2k2: for shizzle

12:39:43 rammy2k2: sure

12:39:44 mircea_popescu: cool. so tell me about your aff manager experience ?

12:39:45 asciilifeform: ;;rate jurov 1 live human!!

12:39:45 gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.

12:40:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gribble had a glitch so it went offline so it lost auth sessions

12:40:18 rammy2k2: well, i've been working in adult industry for some years, affiliates , dunno if it applies on what u need, but i was curious :)

12:40:20 ThickAsThieves: is wao's handle wao?

12:40:38 mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 adult works. who've youy been working for ?

12:40:40 asciilifeform: ;;gpg eauth asciilifeform

12:40:40 gribble: Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7

12:40:57 Naphex: rammy2k2: you run bitcoin-romania.ro forum? right same rammy?

12:41:06 rammy2k2: Naphex: yes :)

12:41:09 rammy2k2: i try to

12:41:10 rammy2k2: :P

12:41:11 Naphex: hey o/

12:41:14 rammy2k2: \o

12:41:18 Naphex: get SSL working in that :)

12:41:24 asciilifeform: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:be89bf44d68bee3cb3c28e4fe995f38c33062d50324afe88a6a293b4

12:41:25 gribble: You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7

12:41:28 asciilifeform: ;;rate jurov 1 live human!!

12:41:30 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user jurov has been recorded.

12:41:31 mircea_popescu: i guess you two have some business to conduct ? :D

12:41:45 rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: streamate, money tree, chaturbate

12:41:58 mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 when, for how long, gimme some highlightds

12:42:12 asciilifeform: ;;rate mike_c 3 live human, cellular automata, jolly good fellow

12:42:13 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.

12:42:39 rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: i quitted adult like 1 year ago, since i got seriously into this disease called crypto

12:42:46 rammy2k2: worked for like 5 years

12:42:54 mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 when you started adult is more interesting. who were you on gfy ?

12:43:03 rammy2k2: yes

12:43:05 rammy2k2: still am

12:43:06 rammy2k2: :)

12:43:10 mircea_popescu: who ?

12:43:12 mircea_popescu: same handle ?

12:43:12 Duffer1: hello

12:43:14 rammy2k2: seXXXhub

12:43:19 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 hey

12:43:23 asciilifeform: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 live human, ate synthetic food, jolly good fella

12:43:24 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.

12:43:46 rammy2k2: had some troubles with zombaio, but who didnt ? :))

12:43:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]

12:44:40 mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 to be clear, were you working as an affiliate manager for any of these programs you mentioned, or simply used them as an affiliate ?

12:44:40 rammy2k2: Naphex: are u on my forum ? :)

12:44:52 rammy2k2: oh, simply used them

12:45:28 mircea_popescu: myeah.

12:46:21 rammy2k2: in what area u need stuff to be done ?

12:46:51 mircea_popescu: in the area where someone with 10 years' experience being an aff manager, and whom i can verify worked with programs i know and delivered results, is looking to start a biz.

12:47:04 mircea_popescu: you're not that guy, you're some guy that joined gfy in 2011.

12:47:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything) << engineers call this 'Kansas phone problem' :

12:47:11 asciilifeform: http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/misc/funny/piss-moan

12:47:36 rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: yea, i guess i aint :)

12:47:41 mircea_popescu: :p

12:47:59 rammy2k2: ill idle around here if thats ok , i have a feeling we can have some nice chats

12:48:09 mircea_popescu: read the logs while at it.

12:48:24 rammy2k2: how many bots around here ?

12:48:29 fluffypony: way too many

12:48:31 fluffypony: <- bot

12:48:33 rammy2k2: :))

12:48:36 mircea_popescu: lol. like 3

12:48:36 fluffypony: just a reasonably intelligent one

12:48:47 rammy2k2: cool, i always apreciate AI

12:49:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: spectrometer << the one fellow who did get a little thorough arsework in the queue at Dulles with me, did in fact pack one!

12:51:23 asciilifeform: phun phact: as a student, i once seriously planned to build a pocket gas chromatographer, to pick up gurlz. how!? to do this - exercise for alert reader.

12:51:24 asciilifeform: hint:

12:51:37 asciilifeform: ;;google histocompatibility sweat

12:51:38 gribble: Major histocompatibility complex and sexual selection - Wikipedia ...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex_and_sexual_selection; Major histocompatibility complex genes, symmetry, and body scent ...: http://www.oxfordjournals.org/page/5003/18; MHC genes, body odours, and odour preferences: http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/9/1269.full

12:52:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought you were just gonna check if they're ovulating

12:53:12 Naphex: hey so who was running bitcoincharts?

12:53:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the point of carrying minesweeper isn't usually so you can jump on the best mine.

12:53:30 mircea_popescu: tcatm

12:53:37 Naphex: ;;seen tcatm

12:53:38 gribble: I have not seen tcatm.

12:53:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where's your sense of adventure.

12:53:49 mircea_popescu: ;;rated tcatm

12:53:49 gribble: You rated user tcatm on Tue Feb 28 12:40:39 2012, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: bitcoincharts fellow, sold me adspace..

12:53:51 asciilifeform: and see, if i had this in me pocket, could've found which of the twelve beagles would relay orders to my canine empire.

12:53:53 mircea_popescu: that guy

12:54:22 fluffypony: asciilifeform: so like this http://vimeo.com/31688625

12:55:14 asciilifeform: no, this

12:55:16 asciilifeform: http://discovermagazine.com/1996/feb/scentofaman699

12:55:18 ozbot: Scent of a Man | DiscoverMagazine.com

12:55:18 asciilifeform: etc

12:57:05 asciilifeform: it was a good job that my net worth was a few zeroes short of actually building this bugger then.

12:57:09 davout: ;;rate tcatm 1 bitcoincharts, been around a while

12:57:10 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user tcatm has been recorded.

12:57:17 asciilifeform: because the device ended up working -without being built-

12:57:35 mircea_popescu: i know right ? i can taste it on them if we're compatible too

12:57:39 mircea_popescu: no need for test gear.

12:57:56 asciilifeform: how: the creature i now keep as a pet was intrigued by the idea, when we met.

12:58:35 mircea_popescu: (says stan from within his carry on cage)

12:58:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you're Carl Wilhelm Scheele, we knew.

12:59:08 asciilifeform: chemist hero who tasted everything he made

12:59:23 mircea_popescu: http://www.siliconhell.com/Images/humour/CatCarrier.jpg everyone has seen this i trust ?

12:59:43 davout: mircea_popescu: LOL

12:59:59 mircea_popescu: speaking of "Testing everything", my fav robotzi episode of all time :

13:00:02 *: asciilifeform spilled

13:00:18 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/embed/4z0WmWUT2rM

13:00:18 ozbot: RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube

13:01:59 asciilifeform: '...a detection unit contains three concealed cartridges, each of which houses eight mice. During their 4-hour shifts in the detector, the mice mill about in a common area in each cartridge as air is passed over people paused in the archway and through the cartridge...'

13:02:05 asciilifeform: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927985.700-sniffer-mice-have-a-nose-for-explosives.html

13:02:08 ozbot: Sniffer mice have a nose for explosives - tech - 03 February 2011 - New Scientist

13:03:00 asciilifeform: i like to imagine that certain people are destined to end up in cartridges

13:04:01 davout: on an unrelated note : "Romanians, not so peaceful after all" -> http://i.imgur.com/nHTqQkA.jpg

13:04:43 asciilifeform: speaking of which, does any in the pile of MIGs at TSR airport actually start?

13:05:20 asciilifeform: (finding where they sit - exercise for alert reader)

13:06:05 mircea_popescu: davout no ak47 :p

13:06:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform those migs not anymore, because they've been gutted for parts.

13:06:37 asciilifeform: good, might be for sale then!

13:06:38 asciilifeform: lust.

13:06:54 ThickAsThieves: Vault of Satoshi now allows real-time auditing it seems

13:07:10 asciilifeform: washington airport muppetron: 'sir, anything to declare?' me: well, just this...

13:07:10 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yeah noticed that

13:07:12 fluffypony: quite nifty

13:08:03 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ?

13:08:26 Naphex: i think they just published their cold wallet

13:08:29 HeySteve: that robotzi show has cool animation, reminds me of this: http://amanita-design.net/games/machinarium.html

13:08:42 mircea_popescu: HeySteve yeah very competent team there.

13:08:58 fluffypony: Naphex: yep, no hot wallet details "for sekuritee"

13:09:14 mircea_popescu: o hey look at that, sorta dott. HeySteve is it released ?

13:09:34 mircea_popescu: Naphex so basically what is it, an address with a sum that signed a message ?

13:09:39 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yep for quite a while, great game

13:09:41 HeySteve: yep, I think I finished that one

13:09:59 fluffypony: played the iPad one for hours figuring stuff ou

13:09:59 Naphex: mircea_popescu: they just made public their cold wallet, so people can check they have the funds

13:10:00 fluffypony: *out

13:10:05 Naphex: that it as far as i know

13:10:12 mircea_popescu: but.... maybe they made public MY cold wallet ?

13:10:20 ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ? /// You can verify cold wallet and your own personal balance. You cannot verify hot wallet though ("security reasons").

13:10:26 asciilifeform: right, we can all write this kind of 'vault'

13:10:27 Naphex: yeah, don't think they signed it yet

13:10:36 mircea_popescu: well in that case they did exactly nothing ?

13:10:52 ThickAsThieves: they didnt sign it

13:10:54 ThickAsThieves: ?

13:11:04 mircea_popescu: i dunno dood you brought the news. i was askin'

13:11:07 Naphex: people can check what balance 'their' cold-wallet has, rawr rawr, everybody's auditing

13:11:10 Naphex: :P

13:11:11 mircea_popescu: tryin to keep up with all the innovative innovations

13:11:27 ThickAsThieves: trouble is you can only see this if you have an account

13:11:31 ThickAsThieves: i do not plan to make one

13:11:57 mircea_popescu: it's almost as if thery go to a dedicated university to be stupid, these people.

13:12:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00098446 = 26.925 BTC [-] {2}

13:12:27 mircea_popescu: this has to be the result of training, methodically making the wrong choice on every turn is not something that can be explained by simple randomness

13:12:35 ThickAsThieves: it works out okay if youre marketing to stupid people though

13:12:42 ThickAsThieves: :/\

13:12:53 mircea_popescu: well sure. marketing to people who went to the same school as you did always works well.

13:12:56 Naphex: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23m1de/vault_of_satoshi_launches_full_public_proof_of/ / http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/23m3xg/vault_of_satoshi_launches_full_public_proof_of/

13:12:58 asciilifeform: one of you told me that the fellow behind 'vault' (argentinian?) has actual brain. so does he keep it in a case, buried in the garden with kalash? or use it for other ventures? because 'vault' doesn't reveal evidence of its use.

13:13:09 fluffypony: afaik they're using this: https://github.com/olalonde/proof-of-solvency

13:13:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform vault of satoshi is unrelated to that guy afaik

13:13:51 davout: fluffypony: yeah, that's just a clever way to present the data

13:14:02 mircea_popescu: who's olalonde ?

13:14:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0644536 = 0.2578 BTC [-]

13:14:37 davout: apparently some french guy that was smart enough to move to china

13:14:41 mircea_popescu: Specification

13:14:41 mircea_popescu: Work in progress.

13:14:43 mircea_popescu: lovely.

13:14:54 mircea_popescu: so can i just copy the html page saying success, much coin excess ?

13:14:58 mircea_popescu: since this seems to be server side

13:15:04 davout: mircea_popescu: still beats the "specification is useless because code" approach

13:15:18 mircea_popescu: https://raw.github.com/olalonde/solvency-verifier-extension/master/docs/screenshot.png

13:15:20 mircea_popescu: gotta love this.

13:15:36 mircea_popescu: ok, this is a fucking scam.

13:15:49 Naphex: hehe

13:15:50 fluffypony: oh I take it back

13:15:54 mircea_popescu: so i get 50 btc from 100 users. i spend 4925 of these 5k btc

13:15:56 fluffypony: they're using Proof of LIabilities

13:15:57 fluffypony: same guy

13:15:59 fluffypony: http://syskall.com/proof-of-liabilities/

13:16:00 ozbot: Proof of Liabilities tools

13:16:03 mircea_popescu: each user sees "success! site is solvent! 25 btc extra"

13:16:16 mircea_popescu: fucking bitchslap these idiots with a trout omfg.

13:16:35 fluffypony: https://github.com/olalonde/proof-of-liabilities

13:16:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: solvency-verifier << when i was a little boy, me brother said 'i shall build you a computer.' (he had one, a rarity, i was envious and annoying)

13:16:39 jurov: ThickAsThieves yes wao is wao

13:16:45 asciilifeform: so next day he gives it to me

13:17:00 asciilifeform: a matchbox. push it, one side pops out, printed with answer!! 'CORRECT.'

13:17:09 asciilifeform: push other side, 'ERROR'

13:17:19 asciilifeform: 'here's yer computer'

13:17:24 asciilifeform: 'the one you deserve'

13:17:30 mircea_popescu: how mean!

13:17:34 davout: it's spelled "compootah"

13:17:37 fluffypony: I would've complained about the stack size

13:17:49 asciilifeform: i deserved this computer. and, apparently, some people today, still deserve.

13:17:55 mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at the other side of mean : "Problem 4 : Permeating all the foregoing and sufficiently so to become a problem in its own right is the incredible arrogance of the recently liberated corporate slavebois working as independent coders. Seriously, start working on the BTC securities trade system of the future without ever having worked for MPEx, without having humbly presented your inept ideas to the most gra

13:17:55 mircea_popescu: ndiose master Mircea Popescu (ie, me), without anything like that ? O, why, because you?re a special little trainflake of brilliance and genius who can ? Really ?

13:17:55 mircea_popescu: Reality doesn?t work that way."

13:18:06 mircea_popescu: fuckwit without a clue makes "proof of solvency".

13:18:16 mircea_popescu: it works worse than the one bit matchbox computer ;/

13:18:28 asciilifeform: righto, both sides painted 'CORRECT'

13:18:50 mircea_popescu: should get fucking branded, roman empire style.

13:18:53 fluffypony: ok so it's an implementation of this: https://iwilcox.me.uk/2014/proving-bitcoin-reserves

13:19:12 fluffypony: which seems great in theory, but as mircea_popescu pointed out it's easy to fake

13:19:23 mircea_popescu: "I THOUGHT I WAS SMART. TURNS OUT I WAS JUST ANOTHER LITERATE IGNORAMUS"

13:19:49 mircea_popescu: in like inch high letters, one letter at a time.

13:20:02 asciilifeform: 'i own proxima centaruri.' - 'ok, i'll believe. but first, wiggle it a bit. my gravimeter's ready, whatcha waiting for.'

13:20:04 mircea_popescu: 70 of them, takes two months.

13:20:09 asciilifeform: *centauri

13:20:15 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ok, you wanna talk about getting under my skin ? this shit gets under my skin.

13:20:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's not a fair test. i own my cock, but it's also too big to wiggle.

13:21:12 ThickAsThieves: your hands have gone weak from lack of self service

13:21:23 ThickAsThieves: have your girl move it

13:21:26 mircea_popescu: it needs like three women working it

13:21:33 mircea_popescu: wouldn't that be the curse of all time.

13:21:48 mircea_popescu: "honey! i gotta pee! get honey and honey, let's get moving on this!"

13:21:49 asciilifeform: yah, but you can make it report for duty, prove ownership.

13:22:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so far. from what i hear from older people however...

13:22:17 asciilifeform: herr mocsny had a good point about this

13:22:34 davout: mircea_popescu: lazyness would command to get a chamber pot instead

13:22:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0009871 = 21.4201 BTC [+] {4}

13:22:39 asciilifeform: 'It would be interesting to do a study on men who need Viagra to have sex with their partners. How many of those same men are able to wank off to porn (whatever variety they like, but most likely it would feature women from the most physically attractive 1%) without chemical assistance?'

13:22:49 asciilifeform: (mocsny - http://www.myrsky.net/danimal-archive-part-1/index.html)

13:22:54 mircea_popescu: chamber pot, chamber maid, chamber music...

13:23:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that'd be a good study. i'm also curious.

13:23:29 asciilifeform: speaking of chamber pot - anyone else's hotel room had... an Otohime!?!?

13:23:34 asciilifeform: last thing i expected to find

13:23:43 asciilifeform: ;;google otohime

13:23:43 gribble: Toyotama-hime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyotama-hime; Otohime - The One Piece Wiki - Wikia: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Otohime; Otohime - Yu-Gi-Oh!: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Otohime

13:23:51 mircea_popescu: a what ?

13:24:16 asciilifeform: http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/shop/sound-princess-loo-001106

13:24:17 ozbot: The sound of a princess... on the toilet | CNN Travel

13:25:23 Naphex: oh man, the tehnology nowadays, and i used to just turn on the water

13:25:23 Naphex: :))

13:25:23 mircea_popescu: aren't these gizmos like required by the classification board ?

13:25:23 jurov: i tried that switch but did not recognize any sound

13:25:26 mircea_popescu: to get your stars or w/e ?

13:25:27 asciilifeform: yeah mine was dead too

13:25:32 asciilifeform: but i'm not a princess

13:25:36 ThickAsThieves: ;;rate wao 2 Spreads bitcoin awareness, works with jurov (Coinroll, etc), friendly dood

13:25:37 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user wao has been recorded.

13:27:49 ThickAsThieves: "Study confirms monkeys can do math"

13:28:10 asciilifeform: waiting for 'study confirms man can do math'

13:28:46 mircea_popescu: and by math is meant, of course, arithmetics ?

13:29:05 fluffypony: the three Rs - Reading, Riting, and Rithmetic

13:29:14 ThickAsThieves: "GitHub co-founder resigns after investigation into harassment claims"

13:29:51 asciilifeform: there was, if i recall, suspicion that higher animals (e.g. dog catching ball) can crunch diff. equations - until high speed photography developed

13:30:14 asciilifeform: then it was found that creatures merely do 'bang-bang correction' when 'solving' the motion equations.

13:30:35 ThickAsThieves: http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/21/google-is-researching-ways-to-make-encryption-easier-to-use-in-gmail/

13:30:35 ozbot: Google is researching ways to make encryption easier to use in Gmail | VentureBeat | Security | by H

13:30:42 ThickAsThieves: (psp)

13:30:45 ThickAsThieves: oops

13:30:47 ThickAsThieves: (pgp)

13:31:05 asciilifeform: 'integrating into gmail'

13:31:12 asciilifeform: next news:

13:31:16 asciilifeform: 'google buys keybase'

13:31:18 jurov: google's unto embrace extern extinguish?

13:31:25 jurov: *onto

13:31:27 mircea_popescu: jurov exactly.

13:31:36 asciilifeform: seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap

13:32:31 mircea_popescu: dude srsly ? cofounders split up over that horvath nitwit ?!

13:32:41 mircea_popescu: poor github. so who's replacing them ?

13:32:46 asciilifeform: the gurl?

13:32:47 ThickAsThieves: appears so

13:32:57 Naphex: didn't google launch gmail just too show ads on your mail context?

13:33:07 Naphex: what ads will run for encrypted emails? ;o

13:33:18 ThickAsThieves: Naphex i dont think so

13:33:32 asciilifeform: 'products bought by other people having your private key...'

13:33:34 ThickAsThieves: the mail context came much later

13:33:35 fluffypony: Naphex: they still know what you're searching

13:33:42 mircea_popescu: Naphex no, gmail was because yahoo sucked and they did mail.

13:33:42 asciilifeform: 'google buys phuctor', news at 11.

13:33:46 fluffypony: I mean searching in mail

13:33:54 ThickAsThieves: google just wants you to enter their cage for the most part

13:33:57 mircea_popescu: many shepherds in backwards places (like romania) still use yahoo mail

13:34:03 fluffypony: although that'll be interesting - how will gmail search work if your mail is encrypted?

13:34:13 mircea_popescu: fluffypony "encrypted"

13:34:16 asciilifeform: 'encrypted'

13:34:31 mircea_popescu: it's just encrypted to stop the leaks wherein haxxors get the pm's email.

13:34:31 fluffypony: exactly

13:34:38 mircea_popescu: it's not encrypted to stop google reading it. it couldn't be

13:34:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00098778 = 3.3091 BTC [+]

13:34:49 mircea_popescu: otherwise, i already use encrypted gmail.

13:34:51 ThickAsThieves: then it aint really encrypted :/

13:35:04 Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap // i like the way you put it

13:35:26 ThickAsThieves: the line is drawn at whether the encryption happens locally or on google servers, right?

13:36:05 Apocalyptic: even if it's done locally, you trust google to provide the right js script or whatever

13:36:06 asciilifeform: the concept of 'private key' is apparently high mathematics to some people.

13:37:07 ThickAsThieves: isnt there already an opensource pgp mail client?

13:37:16 fluffypony: no clue

13:37:24 jurov: ThickAsThieves: KMail + Kleopatra

13:37:26 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves why do i need to mix the channel and the security layer at all ?

13:37:42 mircea_popescu: this is exactly wrong. i do not need gmail involved in encryption any more than i need incentivised wot

13:37:45 fluffypony: Mailvelope does GPG in the browser (Chrome only, FF coming) for GMail

13:37:47 jurov: but nothing can open PGP/MIME stuff it produces

13:37:55 mircea_popescu: i just encrypt in gpg, everything the same way, and then paste the text in an email.

13:38:06 mircea_popescu: this works with all carriers, cause it's not their job to encrypt. their job is to carry.

13:38:12 jurov: so I just copy paste gpg encrypted clobs anyway

13:38:18 fluffypony: also

13:38:28 mircea_popescu: sanity is separating risks not bundling them.

13:38:52 asciilifeform: it's not unlike toilet in the kitchen.

13:38:57 fluffypony: although probably 95% of my mails aren't encrypted or gpg signed because that would require educating all recipients on how to decrypt them

13:39:00 ThickAsThieves: it does seem a bit silly when you consider any mail client made for encryption essentially exists to remove the bother of copy-pasting

13:39:27 asciilifeform: why does your flat need both a toilet and kitchen sink?

13:39:31 asciilifeform: save the bother of walking

13:39:36 asciilifeform: save plumber some work.

13:39:50 Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, there is no bother too great for security

13:39:53 ThickAsThieves: i always wondered why people dont piss in the sink

13:40:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought that's where the us was headed with the garbage disposal things

13:40:10 ThickAsThieves: we had this habit when i rented with other dudes

13:40:17 asciilifeform: someone already sells toilets with 'garbage disposal'

13:40:19 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRppqaanECA

13:40:24 asciilifeform: waiting for a bright fellow to make next step.

13:40:32 ThickAsThieves: even the bathroom sink is more suited for male pissing than the toiley

13:40:42 Apocalyptic: !up chairman_meow

13:40:42 assbot: Voicing chairman_meow for 30 minutes.

13:40:48 chairman_meow: thanks

13:40:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00098778 = 8.1492 BTC [+]

13:41:09 chairman_meow: can anyone recommend an investment like just-dice?

13:41:17 mircea_popescu: just-dice.

13:41:17 ThickAsThieves: no

13:41:35 ThickAsThieves: what is just-dice missing that you seek?

13:42:23 chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: i want to invest in gambling sites. I just don't want to put everything in just-dice

13:42:33 ThickAsThieves: bitbet

13:42:35 ThickAsThieves: mpex.co

13:43:25 chairman_meow: thanks

13:43:59 *: ThickAsThieves waits for "30btc to register, fuck that!"

13:44:20 mircea_popescu: anyone recvalls that film where an aspiring actress ends up killing her baby ?

13:44:25 chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: nothing that allows me to invest small amounts?

13:44:26 mircea_popescu: i think it was von trier maybe ?

13:44:43 ThickAsThieves: coinbr.com

13:45:02 ThickAsThieves: but maybe read and learn about bitbet before worrying about how to buy it?

13:45:36 chairman_meow: everydice.com looks like what i'm looking for. kinda shady though

13:47:04 chairman_meow: heyyy mircea_popescu owns bitbet

13:47:24 mircea_popescu: only for the good stuff

13:49:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0657999 = 0.329 BTC [+]

13:49:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 5 @ 0.14 = 0.7 BTC

13:49:25 mircea_popescu: daisy diamond!

13:49:28 mircea_popescu: btw, great film.

13:49:41 ThickAsThieves: mostly mp just adds randomness to bitbet ;)

13:50:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04300042 = 0.301 BTC [-] {3}

13:50:44 chairman_meow: hmm there doesnt seem to be something like just-dice

13:50:44 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves my contributions throughout my life have been nixing things and doing weird shit. in that order.

13:51:02 Blazedout419: lol love that painting mircea_popescu

13:51:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2892 @ 0.0000694 = 0.2007 BTC [-] {6}

13:51:22 ThickAsThieves: bitcoinragazine censorshipped me :(

13:51:26 mircea_popescu: Blazedout419 the gauguin ?

13:51:30 Blazedout419: ya

13:51:37 Blazedout419: haha "paint me as hitler"

13:52:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00098375 = 11.1164 BTC [-] {2}

13:52:32 ThickAsThieves: i was trying to point people to check out bitcoinpete's expose on maidsafe and they didnt approve my comment

13:53:27 mircea_popescu: oh oh. yeah huh :D

13:53:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nonegativityallowed.com

13:53:51 mircea_popescu: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10775477/Why-your-fingerprints-may-not-be-unique.html

13:53:52 ozbot: Why your fingerprints may not be unique - Telegraph

13:53:58 mircea_popescu: in other nonunique news.

13:56:58 Duffer1: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/

13:57:15 fluffypony: lol, theymos getting called out on /r/bitcoin now - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23o0hs/an_rbitcoin_moderator_seems_to_be_a_wellknown/

13:58:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0657999 = 0.3948 BTC [+]

13:58:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.03 = 0.75 BTC [+]

14:02:17 ThickAsThieves: "Vleisides' finances have been in question for the past several months," particularly because his residence "was recently purchased by BFL for approximately $400,000 in cash.

14:02:36 mircea_popescu: heh.

14:02:45 mircea_popescu: the noose tightens.

14:02:51 Duffer1: are monarchs shipping yet?

14:03:04 fluffypony: don't think so

14:03:32 Duffer1: sounds like this guy is going to pass away in prison like his father

14:05:23 chairman_meow: am I still voiced?

14:05:27 chairman_meow: yeah I am

14:05:43 chairman_meow: something I don't understand with provably fair.

14:06:07 ThickAsThieves: that it doesnt prove the operator isnt stealing?

14:06:17 HeySteve: wanted to mention earlier, Lavaboom looks promising for secure email: https://lavaboom.com/nerd-info.html

14:06:26 chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: you read my mind!

14:06:39 davout: chairman_meow: no, he read the logs

14:06:56 ThickAsThieves: well in this case, it happens to be the first question i eve rasked in bitcoin

14:06:59 ThickAsThieves: to erik

14:07:12 chairman_meow: heh. so is there a solution to this?

14:07:12 Apocalyptic: "we do everything possible to make Lavaboom easy to use while keeping the service as secure as possible." HeySteve, you can't have it both ways

14:07:22 ThickAsThieves: no solution to date

14:07:23 Apocalyptic: or you end up with a thing that is neither one nor the other

14:07:30 davout: ThickAsThieves: so serious :-)

14:08:00 *: ThickAsThieves makes davout serious face and grunty retort noises

14:08:18 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: surely the solution should be that all rolls are on a single address, no change addresses?

14:08:23 *: davout throws a branch of celery to ThickAsThieves to calm his anger

14:08:29 HeySteve: Apocalyptic, I'd encrypt myself for anything sensitive but this will improve things for people who can't do that

14:08:30 ThickAsThieves: lol

14:08:47 Duffer1: " PayPal global asset protection officer, told her that as of September 2013, PayPal froze BFL’s account containing $11 million and that PayPal received 6,000 complaints in total."

14:08:55 Apocalyptic: HeySteve, it will improve the illusion

14:08:56 davout: HeySteve: there is no "person who can't do that", there are lazy people

14:09:02 ThickAsThieves: fluffy, the problem is the operator has the key

14:09:11 ThickAsThieves: so he can bet however he likes

14:09:11 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yeah, so when the pot is big enough he can duck

14:09:16 ThickAsThieves: from any random address

14:09:23 fluffypony: and "win"

14:09:42 HeySteve: right, well the more cycles wasted on lazy people using halfway solutions the better?

14:09:42 ThickAsThieves: it gets worse

14:09:50 ThickAsThieves: he can do it with investor's money

14:09:58 davout: HeySteve: no

14:10:37 HeySteve: unsure why not, doesn't it increase costs for spies?

14:12:11 davout: HeySteve: does it ?

14:12:40 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: so then what about a hot-wallet, lost roll amounts are sent to a cold-wallet, and the cold wallet is multi-sig, with a board of investors holding keys and the site operator holding keys. payouts happen once every 24 hours instead of immediately.

14:13:31 davout: fluffypony: running away with the pot/cheating -> different problemz

14:13:31 HeySteve: davout, in theory

14:13:35 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 and then gigaom harps about how coindesk is relevant in bitcoin.

14:14:02 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, mp says he wants vehehes' head, mp gets vehehes' head. mp says he wants karpeles' head, mp gets karpeles' head

14:14:07 Duffer1: coindesk hurts my brain

14:14:09 mircea_popescu: and s' and s' and so on and so forth.

14:14:23 mircea_popescu: and ano i shall be off making bbq.

14:14:39 *: fluffypony ponders

14:14:48 fluffypony: davout: and this is why I don't gamble

14:14:59 fluffypony: at least not in the traditional sense :-P

14:17:55 ThickAsThieves: you cant remove trust from the problem here

14:18:01 ThickAsThieves: look at bitbet

14:18:12 ThickAsThieves: you still must trust them to hold your coins and pay them out

14:18:16 fluffypony: yeah

14:18:29 ThickAsThieves: that's not a problem necessarily

14:18:32 ThickAsThieves: it's a service

14:20:09 ThickAsThieves: the difference with bitbet is that the interests are better-aligned

14:20:24 fluffypony: yeah

14:21:43 ThickAsThieves: so, it would go that you might be better off investing in owning a dice site privately, than being a public investor via shares or a shared pot

14:22:09 ThickAsThieves: but then you'd also be the guy with the problem

14:22:18 ThickAsThieves: of not being able to prove you arent stealing

14:22:57 fluffypony: sure

14:23:07 fluffypony: I think it goes back to a discussion I had with someone the other day - he was espousing the values of the Dogecoin community, and how nice everyone is, and they don't have "scams like Bitcoin has"

14:23:20 fluffypony: so I pointed out that lending a buddy 200k Dogecoin today is worth a whopping $120, but Dogecoin's market cap is tiny ($44 mil as opposed to $6.2 bil), and would he trust his buddy to not run with those coins if they were worth $17 000?

14:24:01 fluffypony: in other words, operators may start off with good intentions, but when they suddenly realise they're sitting on a large pot of gold, are they still trustworthy?

14:24:55 fluffypony: and unfortunately in the case of many an operator in the Bitcoin/cryptocurrency space they don't scale their control measures in line with the money they control

14:25:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17664 @ 0.00098778 = 17.4481 BTC [+]

14:26:46 Apocalyptic: operational security is hard to improvise

14:28:07 fluffypony: Apocalyptic: hence my #bitcoin-dev question on accounts, I was wondering how "auditable"/visible they were publicly (the answer being not-at-all)

14:29:28 mircea_popescu: -dev has accounts ?!

14:29:58 jurov: i think it was about bitcoin-qt accounts

14:30:37 fluffypony: jurov: they're deprecating it

14:30:42 jurov: electrum devs try to do accounts right, we'll see how it comes out

14:31:08 mircea_popescu: oh jesus those things.

14:31:38 fluffypony: but I had this little brain-fart of an idea of using accounts mapped 1:1 to an address on an exchange (turns out my understanding of "accounts" was incorrect)

14:31:45 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/bitcoin-was-written-by-the-retarded-part-ii/

14:31:46 ozbot: Bitcoin was written by the retarded, part II pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

14:31:55 mircea_popescu: there, have at.

14:35:51 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: and in at #8 is the bitcoin foundation's annual letter lol

14:36:02 davout: jurov: ThomasV is working on accounts??

14:36:15 bitcoinpete: the twitter is 6x older than the blog. all in good time

14:37:46 bitcoinpete: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23lt4p/neo_bee_the_full_picture/

14:37:49 ozbot: NEO & BEE: THE FULL PICTURE : Bitcoin

14:37:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00022471 = 0.1124 BTC [-]

14:38:53 bitcoinpete: Brewster: "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left."

14:40:05 bitcoinpete: Andreas Antonopoulos posts on Reddit stating that “I was as surprised and bewildered by these events…dismayed that another bitcoin company had imploded amidst allegations of fraud and leaving many investors, creditors and employees with serious losses…all of whom betrayed by Danny” <<fuckin derp

14:40:44 mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete ask derpopopulos how come is it possible that danny brewster fucked everyone in the ass, when he never said things such as nigger or put down women for being retarded ?

14:41:03 mircea_popescu: maybe he should change his spiel from his current nonsense. apparently that doesn't help anything.

14:41:43 mircea_popescu: carefully selecting audiences for libertardism does not on the volume of data collected so far seem to produce better businesses.

14:42:00 bitcoinpete: lol i'll call into joe rogan's show tmrw and heckle derpopolous live

14:42:20 fluffypony: I'd pay to hear that

14:42:23 fluffypony: do you accept Altcoin?

14:42:23 mircea_popescu: yeah srsly. we've all been sayin' hail marys over here like he prescribed, and we still got the clap.

14:42:24 mircea_popescu: what gives ?

14:42:27 mircea_popescu: and is he paying for it ?

14:42:55 mircea_popescu: tell him some investors have been very careful to follow his instructions and they still lost money. what's he going to do to make them whole ? apologize ? pay out of pocket ?

14:43:36 bitcoinpete: afaik andreas is fuckin broke and just scrapes by as a conference gypsy

14:43:48 mircea_popescu: i know, but he does it in an offensive manner.

14:43:55 mircea_popescu: at least to my easily offended asshole sensibilities.

14:44:50 fluffypony: am I the only person who hasn't seen him speak / heard him interviewed / watched him in a video?

14:45:27 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: maybe, you're out on some lulz

14:46:00 bitcoinpete: he's all about "the other 6 billion," promoting scammers, and 2.0 baloney

14:46:10 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: every time I see a video with him linked to on /r/bitcoin it just seems like a link to a TED talk, and I can't be bothered to watch TED talks

14:46:43 ThickAsThieves: i have yet to watch more than 10secs of antonopoly

14:46:48 jborkl: The next day Brewster shocks the management team by telling them that the 5,000 BTC have?..overnight become only 140! "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left. I am going to the UK to find investors. I will send you the 140 coins left and also sell my Mercedes

14:46:48 jborkl: and Bentley and will send you the money to pay the March salaries and the creditors".

14:47:00 bitcoinpete: ;;google antonopolous joe rogan

14:47:00 gribble: Joe Rogan Experience #446 - Andreas Antonopoulos - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cexawnOlR8; Joe Rogan (Podcast Site): http://podcasts.joerogan.net/; Andreas M. Antonopoulos Live on Joe Rogan Experiance RIGHT ...: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wbmo7/andreas_m_antonopoulos_live_on_joe_rogan/

14:47:05 jborkl: Jesus christ, what a fucking retard

14:47:09 mircea_popescu: fluffypony i think i saw a pic. kinda bald fellow.

14:47:17 ThickAsThieves: despite being hetero, i find him too unnattractive to look at

14:47:34 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: hunchy too

14:47:34 ThickAsThieves: maybe it's just my spider sense

14:47:46 mircea_popescu: jborkl "5,000 BTC have?..overnight become only 140!" << there's some truth to that.

14:47:54 mircea_popescu: you see, toy exchanges love to inflate their figures.

14:48:21 mircea_popescu: due to the complete lack of transparency, and seeing how all havelock/btct/bitfunder/glbse/etc offerings are destined to implode anyway

14:48:29 mircea_popescu: they can get away with the pretense that they raise a lot of money.

14:48:42 mircea_popescu: then inexplicable shit happens. like this :

14:52:13 bitcoinpete: https://twitter.com/bitcoinpete/status/458619240791019521

14:52:13 ozbot: Twitter / bitcoinpete: Hey @aantonop: Are you making ...

14:52:14 jborkl: I am going to sell my Mercedes and Bentley <-- what a asshole

14:52:57 bitcoinpete: not my harshest rebuke… don't feel like tearing assholes before breakfast

14:53:42 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I see not everyone appreciated your maidsafe criticism

14:54:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2014#595720

14:54:23 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: not everyone appreciates frank lloyd wright either, c'est la vie

14:54:26 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

14:54:36 jborkl: what is maidsafe anyway? keeps the maid from stealing your bitcoins?

14:54:46 fluffypony: "@bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a trashy review of a summer movie. Be more constructive."

14:54:49 mircea_popescu: it's like maid to order. a pun.

14:54:54 fluffypony: what a whiney little girl

14:55:07 bitcoinpete: jborkl: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/

14:55:24 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: blame the education system lol

14:55:31 mircea_popescu: fluffypony lmao. when did some fucktarded bitcoin noncompany with no wot start looking down on trashy summer movies ?!

14:55:35 mircea_popescu: what is this, the reverseland ?

14:55:44 fluffypony: lol

14:56:04 mircea_popescu: Your search - @bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a ... - did not match any documents.

14:56:06 mircea_popescu: can i \has linkl ?

14:56:06 jborkl: then it should be madesafe right? I guess I don't get the pun

14:56:16 mircea_popescu: jborkl they're new in the punning business.

14:56:16 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: sure gimme a sec

14:56:25 bitcoinpete: https://twitter.com/russellaugust/status/458501550277537792

14:56:26 ozbot: Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...

14:56:28 bitcoinpete: faster

14:56:33 fluffypony: https://twitter.com/russellaugust/status/458501550277537792

14:56:33 ozbot: Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...

14:56:37 fluffypony: oh there, beat me to it

14:56:56 *: fluffypony sends bitcoinpete a coke

14:57:09 bounce: no minute maid?

14:57:35 bitcoinpete: just had one of the guys in our meet-up group ask about maidsafe too. of course, a day after i blogged about it. just like he asked about bitgo a day after i blogged about that. noticing a pattern here

14:57:46 mircea_popescu: the bigger q here is who the fuck is that russel dood.

14:58:02 mircea_popescu: "Avid film and commercial editor, motion artist, and sometimes software developer." just sounds to me like unemployed young poor.

14:58:35 mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete the pattern being that peeps are trolling you or that peeps don't read your blog ?

14:59:27 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: very big q indeed. is being a "motion artist" like someone who takes jogs outside?

14:59:38 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: not reading lol

15:00:19 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I believe "motion artists" practice an obscure form of yoga

15:00:19 ThickAsThieves: i exist therefore i artist

15:00:25 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: not much for coke, got any wine?

15:00:42 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: probably one of the hot, sweaty kinds

15:00:46 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: TONS, take a trip to South Africa and stop by, I'll provide the alcohol

15:00:57 bitcoinpete: deal

15:01:21 fluffypony: cgcardona_:)

15:01:55 bitcoinpete: reading part 3 of essences...

15:02:07 mircea_popescu: fluffypony i bet you it's just copied off the oscars. "the academy of motioning artistes"

15:02:18 fluffypony: hah

15:02:25 mircea_popescu: at the time in newyork young hungry cocksuckers worked like taxi cabs : you'd motion to them and they'd get to work.

15:03:32 jurov: davout re: electrum multiple wallets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427617.0

15:03:51 jurov: er.. accounts

15:03:57 cgcardona_: top of the morning bitcoin-assets! cc/ fluffypony

15:06:35 mircea_popescu: ello

15:07:03 jborkl: Ok, I read the website facts for Maidsafe and I feel dumb now. And if they are going to make a really bad pun they need a logo to go with it that makes you laugh

15:07:06 jborkl: https://www.google.com/search?q=french+maid+stealing+image&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y4RWU_b8D-HOyAGcg4GADg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=955#q=french+maid+theft&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=e3pqlcwPH_fDFM%253A%3BWnNPSumn-CUFuM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.uncyc.org%252Fcommons%252Fthumb%252Ff%252Ff9%252FFrench_maid_dingo.jpg%252F150px-French_maid_dingo.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmirror

15:07:07 jborkl: .uncyc.org%252Fwiki%252FSeptember%3B150%3B151

15:07:24 jborkl: nm the link hehe

15:08:03 ThickAsThieves: http://www.pfhub.com/u-s-investment-banker-james-rickards-says-tie-bitcoin-gold-avoid-volatility-580/

15:08:03 ozbot: U.S. investment banker James Rickards says tie bitcoin to gold and avoid volatility

15:08:55 davout: jurov: thanks, i'll inquire about it

15:08:59 ThickAsThieves: US doctor says tie noose to neck to avoid risk

15:09:41 bitcoinpete: ThickAsThieves: that noose is also for professionalism

15:11:57 ThickAsThieves: maybe #b-a logo could be a sword of Damocles with a halo at the bottom

15:12:52 mircea_popescu: either that or a gaping asshole

15:13:49 ThickAsThieves: might as well make a whole crest out of it

15:14:03 ThickAsThieves: hmm wsj ssl broken

15:14:12 ThickAsThieves: https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/04/22/thai-tea-firm-ichitan-injects-a-buzz-into-thailands-stock-market/?mod=WSJBlog

15:14:12 ozbot: Tea Firm Injects Buzz into Thai Stock Market With Porsche Giveaway - MoneyBeat - WSJ

15:14:30 ThickAsThieves: next is BOGO?

15:16:22 ThickAsThieves: Sharpie of Damocles

15:19:25 mircea_popescu: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122290720439096481

15:19:46 mircea_popescu: moar like sharpie of patrocles

15:21:03 ThickAsThieves: jurov:<davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D /// Surprise!

15:21:21 davout: whoops

15:21:23 asciilifeform: ;;google trading sardines

15:21:24 gribble: "Trading Sardines" - Bitcoin Forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28627.0; Natural Gas In 2013: It's Now A Trading Sardine - Seeking Alpha: http://seekingalpha.com/article/1091461-natural-gas-in-2013-its-now-a-trading-sardine; "Sardines" are to Trade, not Eat | Gold Eagle: http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/sardines-are-trade-not-eat

15:22:59 davout: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL

15:23:00 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.

15:23:13 davout: ;;rate jurov 3

15:23:15 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user jurov has been recorded.

15:24:25 davout: ;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR

15:24:26 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.

15:24:45 davout: ;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR

15:24:46 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.

15:24:54 davout: weird, the message doesn't get picked up

15:25:12 Blazedout419: what do you mean

15:25:12 jurov: what? i see gribbles replies

15:25:18 Blazedout419: [11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR

15:25:18 Blazedout419: [11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR

15:25:21 Blazedout419: it shows

15:25:30 Blazedout419: the gribble spam chans shows all!

15:25:34 davout: okay, wasn't showing at first on bitcoin-otc

15:25:42 davout: seems good nao

15:26:20 davout: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, very knowledgeable about engineering and beagles

15:26:21 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.

15:26:28 Blazedout419: you guys know gribble has a chan that echos all ratings right?

15:26:31 davout: might as well do a little update round

15:26:40 davout: Blazedout419: no

15:26:48 Blazedout419: ya

15:27:01 Blazedout419: only gribble is voiced...and only shows ratings as added

15:27:03 davout: Blazedout419: no as in "oh really? tell me more" :-)

15:27:14 Blazedout419: #bitcoin-otc-ratings

15:27:23 davout: ;;rate kakobrekla 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x

15:27:24 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user kakobrekla has changed from 1 to 3.

15:27:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3053 @ 0.000135 = 0.4122 BTC [+]

15:27:50 bitcoinpete: ciao for nao

15:28:03 davout: ;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL

15:28:05 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 1 to 3.

15:28:37 davout: ;;rate ThomasV 3 electrum, met IRL a few times

15:28:38 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThomasV has changed from 3 to 3.

15:30:23 davout: Blazedout419: thank you !

15:30:32 Blazedout419: ya

15:31:28 davout: Blazedout419: learn something new every day!

15:31:45 mircea_popescu: davout omfg you actually didn't know ?

15:31:58 mircea_popescu: i thought sarcasm fo sho, you nooblet you

15:32:05 Blazedout419: ;;ratingsystem getrating Blazedout419

15:32:06 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Blazedout419!~Rogue@76-243-42-60.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net . User Blazedout419, rated since Sat May 18 17:05:13 2013. Cumulative rating 258, from 119 total ratings. Received ratings: 119 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 124 positive, 3 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Blazedout419

15:32:09 jurov: looks like i should update my ratings too :)

15:32:10 Blazedout419: he does so many things

15:32:17 jurov: ;;ident jurov

15:32:17 gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com', is not identified.

15:32:30 mircea_popescu: o look, coinbrazil has a mexico.

15:32:56 jurov: lol

15:33:27 jurov: it was supposed to be used for email, too

15:34:37 jurov: after some bastions are erected and moats dug

15:35:59 jurov: !up only

15:35:59 assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.

15:38:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3036 @ 0.00098881 = 3.002 BTC [+]

15:40:20 jurov: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13ad09cbe0fc1cde274158d2b9e2d39594bb14c40d65609dcfa6224e

15:40:21 gribble: You are now authenticated for user jurov with key 677ABD62D0AEE7D7

15:41:57 jurov: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 NSA delivers; met IRL

15:41:58 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.

15:42:34 jurov: ;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central; met IRL

15:42:36 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user davout has changed from 3 to 3.

15:43:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.528 = 1.056 BTC [-]

15:44:16 jurov: ;;rate mike_c 3 <3 bitcoinalpha;we met IRL

15:44:17 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.

15:46:46 jurov: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 Biggest IDIFF investor, we met IRL

15:46:47 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.

15:47:40 davout: ;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also btcalpha <3

15:47:41 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 3 to 3.

15:47:57 davout: jurov: thanks for reminding me mike_c does btcalpha, luv it

15:50:58 jurov: ;;rate kakobrekla 4 runs several solid btc enterprises (bit4x,bitbet,panacea,...);we met IRL

15:51:00 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 4 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.

15:51:50 jurov: ;;rate mircea_popescu 6 has pet manticores;we met IRL

15:51:51 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 4 to 6.

15:52:21 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/

15:52:22 ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

15:52:48 mircea_popescu: in my humble opinion, this is the most important thing written on the topic in the history of human culture, neatly dwarving adam smith and so forth.

15:53:41 ThickAsThieves: just when i was gonna take a break from reading

15:55:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40373 @ 0.00098287 = 39.6814 BTC [-] {3}

15:56:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47728 @ 0.00098162 = 46.8508 BTC [-] {4}

15:57:43 ThickAsThieves: typo: marriage certificate. Were burning it today, all of it

15:57:48 ThickAsThieves: we're

16:00:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.48246700 BTC to 6`890 shares, 36030 satoshi per share

16:01:08 ThickAsThieves: thinking out loud, if something is not a medium of exchange,

16:01:13 ThickAsThieves: should it never be used as one?

16:01:18 ThickAsThieves: for example, time

16:01:31 ThickAsThieves: i mow your lawn so i can have you do my taxes

16:03:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52664 @ 0.00098641 = 51.9483 BTC [+]

16:05:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2536 @ 0.00098837 = 2.5065 BTC [+]

16:06:40 jurov: ThickAsThieves: that's barter and does not involve any medium of exchange

16:07:09 ThickAsThieves: i suppose

16:07:26 davout: jurov: the distinction of barter vs. other forms of trade is imho quite artificial

16:07:51 ThickAsThieves: i always sorta viewed mediums of exchange as manifestations of time

16:08:01 davout: a medium of exchange is just another economic good, one that is particularly liquid though

16:08:01 ThickAsThieves: time is all we really have right?

16:09:53 davout: why so ?

16:13:18 ThickAsThieves: hmm, it's the only resource everyone has? how one "spends" their time may determine their "wealth" ...?

16:13:49 benkay: you're born long time and short housing...

16:13:58 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ty!

16:14:08 ThickAsThieves: it is inconvenient to transfer time, so currency is used

16:14:24 ThickAsThieves: among other inconvenient things to transfer

16:14:29 mircea_popescu: so if it doesn't satisfy #2, it's not a medium of exchange

16:14:31 mircea_popescu: case closed.

16:15:02 mircea_popescu: i mean you know, you can view planets as stars, as in the case of venus

16:15:10 mircea_popescu: what you prefer viewing things as tho is not a point of astronomy

16:15:39 ThickAsThieves: well i did start by acknowledging it was not a MoE

16:15:51 mircea_popescu: time is definitely very important.

16:16:02 ThickAsThieves: maybe rephrased, would it be preferred to require currency in a barter

16:16:05 mircea_popescu: the problem of natural persons vs legal persons is that natural persons have constraints legal persons do not.

16:16:07 ThickAsThieves: instead of the man;s time

16:16:11 mircea_popescu: such as finite timespan, and a need to eat.

16:16:20 mircea_popescu: this makes corporations win out in any fair contest.

16:17:04 ThickAsThieves: how is it fair if one side has constraints?

16:17:27 mircea_popescu: a fair contest is a contest which does not distinguish between participants.

16:17:29 mircea_popescu: !up surfcap

16:17:29 assbot: Voicing surfcap for 30 minutes.

16:17:48 ThickAsThieves: ah, so it's fair because the person chose to compete

16:18:07 mircea_popescu: fairness in this context may not be what you think when you say the word.

16:18:18 mircea_popescu: fairness is not a guarantee of equal resuts, even if you promise equal effort.

16:18:24 mircea_popescu: fair is simply anonymity.

16:18:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 750 @ 0.14 = 105 BTC

16:18:52 mircea_popescu: if the contest is running, and it dun matter who's running, he still has to do 100 meters, be it obama or goldstein,

16:18:56 mircea_popescu: then it's a fair contest.

16:20:04 mircea_popescu: and from unrelated news : "Nothing makes you more powerful inside the joint than a strong grounding in currency arbitrage."

16:20:32 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is the best thing you could possibly be doing with your time, not last on the list because even should it put you in prison, it will probably make you a ruler there, too.

16:21:04 mircea_popescu: a more absolute gift of power could scarcely be devised. "even in hell, they with this staff wield power" sort of thing.

16:21:07 dignork: mircea_popescu: person can win over corporate entity, think of kill contract for C-level staff

16:21:22 mircea_popescu: dignork i don't follow ?

16:21:52 dignork: mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu | this makes corporations win out in any fair contest."

16:22:21 mircea_popescu: i know what i said, what i don't follow is what you said.

16:22:42 ThickAsThieves: it always amazed me how much arbitrage opportunity existed on the play exchanges

16:22:44 dignork: mircea_popescu: just describing situation where person can win

16:22:52 mircea_popescu: how does the person win ?

16:23:20 ThickAsThieves: and what is the contest

16:23:21 mircea_popescu: if you shoot all the board of X corp, what of it ? they just hire new ones.

16:23:23 dignork: mircea_popescu: if the game was survavibility

16:23:42 mircea_popescu: a corporation is like a personified feud. it can even lay dormant.

16:23:57 mircea_popescu: meanwhile banks adding interest to its accounts.

16:25:13 ThickAsThieves: so mp, with this purified definition of economy, how do we apply it to current situations for benefit?

16:25:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06476363 = 0.1295 BTC [-] {2}

16:25:47 ThickAsThieves: like, we discovered quantum computing, now what?

16:26:15 mircea_popescu: well we apply it to understand what we do and do not understand better, and formalise both.

16:26:24 mircea_popescu: for instance, what does qc do ? does it attack the forum ?

16:26:34 mircea_popescu: does it attack the moe ? the wot ? how so ?

16:26:41 mircea_popescu: it can be fixed once we understand wtf it does.

16:26:48 ThickAsThieves: hmm

16:26:50 mircea_popescu: before we do, it's just you know, fretting.

16:28:03 mircea_popescu: and generally, it's a knife. it allows to cleave reality and the problems of reality into easier to manage bits.

16:28:21 mircea_popescu: say, the "problem" of x. well... how mcuh of it actually is economical ? that much should be resolved economically.

16:28:33 mircea_popescu: the rest is probably emotional ? or political ? or whatever the fuck else.

16:28:47 mircea_popescu: suddenly reality is actionable, which is what makes great science.

16:28:50 mircea_popescu: (and science great)

16:29:08 ThickAsThieves: so, it's basic first use would be as a test

16:29:13 ThickAsThieves: is this an economy or not, etc

16:29:39 ThickAsThieves: altough you do already claim it is the first real economy

16:30:07 benkay: good grief it's like everyone disappeared for three days and then came back and pooped it all out on the logs

16:30:11 mircea_popescu: which claim is that ? i make som any

16:30:11 benkay: STAHP FOR LOVE OF CHRIST

16:30:20 mircea_popescu: benkay shuttup and read biotch.

16:30:44 ThickAsThieves: "It is important to bear in mind however that Bitcoin is merely a tool, that what we’re truly interested in is creating - for the first time in perhaps as long as two centuries - an actual, working economy"

16:31:07 ThickAsThieves: so not as sweeping as i said

16:31:12 ThickAsThieves: but pretty broad

16:31:18 mircea_popescu: yeah. the objection there is not so different from tlp's objection that medicalisation of welfare.

16:31:36 mircea_popescu: there's been a trend to economize welfare, and that just muddies up everything

16:32:07 mircea_popescu: not to mention the economization of politics, whereby politics are resisted or promoted on alleged economic grounds.

16:32:17 mircea_popescu: most of the debate dealing with strictly uneconomic matters.

16:32:30 benkay: and the economic matters rarely have data on which to base claims.

16:32:31 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if this could be applied to mmporg guilds, maybe your Rift guild is missing a punishment gazette

16:33:05 mircea_popescu: it kinda has it, very rudimentarily, as the kick log say.

16:33:06 benkay: the takeaway for me from the piketty stuff (if anyone cares) is that claims about how money flows are all hot air and lacking in data.

16:33:16 mircea_popescu: o wow ThickAsThieves check this shit out :

16:33:30 ThickAsThieves: wait, but is punishment gazette the proper term?

16:33:42 benkay: humiliation blotter?

16:33:43 mircea_popescu: i CREATED IT because we have an open guild bank where anyone can take out a stack, but you're not supposed to take out the WHOLE stack of things you can use 1-2 of

16:33:45 ThickAsThieves: for isn't a positive note possible? and useful?

16:33:54 mircea_popescu: so i put a note on a guy's "officer notesd" place that hey, you took all our x runes wtf

16:33:57 mircea_popescu: and he put them back.

16:34:00 mircea_popescu: so there the fuck you go.

16:34:03 ThickAsThieves: hah

16:34:09 mircea_popescu: this theory is useful in design : how to make better mmorpgs.

16:34:13 mircea_popescu: or countries.

16:34:19 mircea_popescu: just like, you know, the original adam smith.

16:34:25 ThickAsThieves: but

16:34:39 ThickAsThieves: then it starts looking like, everything is an economy

16:34:45 ThickAsThieves: which you are saying is foolish already

16:34:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, a "gazette" is this ancient term of "where all the matters of record are published"

16:35:08 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves everything that moves has some economic part

16:35:08 ThickAsThieves: right but you call it punishment

16:35:12 mircea_popescu: much like it has an engine.

16:35:29 fluffypony: yeah, the issue is with the "punishment" part, not the gazette part

16:35:42 ThickAsThieves: so maybe i reword to, any organized effort could benefit from a properly implemented economy

16:35:49 mircea_popescu: punishment is any action upon an agent that happens irrespective of the will of that agent

16:35:56 mircea_popescu: which is why i'd say punishment is the proper term.

16:36:01 mircea_popescu: you don't need me to rate me.

16:36:15 ThickAsThieves: i punish you with my appreciation

16:36:26 mircea_popescu: sure. maybe i don't want it.

16:36:43 mircea_popescu: suppose pirate came back and went ;;rate ThickAsThieves 6 trusted guy helped me launder money

16:37:15 ThickAsThieves: i get what youre saying,

16:37:22 ThickAsThieves: but i think you might be choosing the wrong word

16:37:56 ThickAsThieves: no definition of punishment i know would include a positive rating

16:38:18 ThickAsThieves: whether you want to twist a positive rating into being a punishment seems to me, another thing

16:38:50 ThickAsThieves: you want your gazette to be impartial and permanent in and of itself

16:38:56 fluffypony: maybe actaque non persona is better?

16:39:05 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well... so maybe the definition is broken you know ?

16:39:09 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:39:26 ThickAsThieves: says the guy who wants people to look up words and use them properly

16:39:35 mircea_popescu: but this is properly ;/

16:39:42 ThickAsThieves: and you are the dicstionary

16:39:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098314 = 10.2247 BTC [-]

16:39:50 mircea_popescu: well so what else

16:39:57 cgcardona_: ;;ticker

16:39:58 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 493.5, Best ask: 494.5, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000, Last trade: 493.5, 24 hour volume: 6797.65308914, 24 hour low: 489.77, 24 hour high: 504.9, 24 hour vwap: 496.41813442

16:39:59 mircea_popescu: gazzette d'actaque non persona

16:40:01 benkay: (dicktionary)

16:40:07 fluffypony: there

16:40:12 fluffypony: I like that

16:40:13 mircea_popescu: benkay fucktionary!

16:40:19 fluffypony: much better than punishment gazette

16:40:23 ThickAsThieves: fictionary

16:40:48 mircea_popescu: !up VictorM

16:40:48 assbot: Voicing VictorM for 30 minutes.

16:41:04 fluffypony: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets

16:41:06 gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.

16:41:15 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:41:22 mircea_popescu: it definitely fits the crime...

16:41:34 fluffypony: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets

16:41:35 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.

16:41:37 ThickAsThieves: we are all born sinners after all!

16:42:01 mircea_popescu: briar patch gazette

16:42:09 ThickAsThieves: hey look, even my handle has added depth now

16:42:11 mircea_popescu: tbh i was tempted to outright call it a wot.

16:42:13 ThickAsThieves: thick as thieves

16:42:59 cgcardona_: wod web-of-distrust

16:43:04 mircea_popescu: the trouble is that wot is a horrible name, as it's not OF TRUST in the obvious sense, but in the other one. and it'd seem to discuss the actual web, rather than its notation.

16:43:14 ThickAsThieves: agreed

16:43:17 fluffypony: yeah

16:43:28 mircea_popescu: like the web is the set of websites, not the set of human knowledge

16:43:31 ThickAsThieves: the Trust part leads to noobs using it wrong

16:43:33 mircea_popescu: but the wot seems more the latter. yeah.

16:43:49 fluffypony: let's call it the Bitcoin Social Network instead :-P

16:43:50 mircea_popescu: the truth being that this shit's so bleedin' advanced ... we are without words.

16:43:55 mircea_popescu: or urmom.

16:44:04 mircea_popescu: we could call it urmom gazelle.

16:44:12 fluffypony: "I rated you a 2 on urmom gazelle"

16:44:35 ThickAsThieves: whatd they call those medievil books for documenting the deeds of kings, etc

16:44:38 cgcardona_: web-of-connections

16:44:39 mircea_popescu: i'm making urmom a better gazelle than the wot ever was, bish.

16:44:51 benkay: "the wot"?

16:44:54 benkay: "the what?"

16:44:57 fluffypony: u wot m8

16:45:00 benkay: "no, are you in the wot?"

16:45:04 cgcardona_: wotupwidit

16:45:07 mircea_popescu: like a chronicle ?

16:45:08 benkay: "i'm asking you what i'm in!?"

16:45:17 ThickAsThieves: maybe

16:45:34 benkay: "let's try this again. does anyone in the wot know you?"

16:45:38 mircea_popescu: i guess this is actually it.

16:45:40 benkay: "WHAT WHAT?!"

16:45:48 mircea_popescu: benkay in the batt.

16:46:02 fluffypony: benkay: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/307/189/6fe.jpg

16:46:15 mircea_popescu: .bait ed breath

16:46:16 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/f4cc07dd827c081390b84292fc5a14df/tumblr_miug64DweK1r5bmaso1_500.jpg

16:46:42 ThickAsThieves: she looks like she just had a nice fart

16:46:42 fluffypony: Network of Awesomeness

16:46:44 fluffypony: NoA

16:46:54 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves yeah not bad. bated fart.

16:47:01 benkay: "are you in the no?"

16:47:03 benkay: the know?

16:47:11 mircea_popescu: "are you in the no?" "yes"

16:47:31 ThickAsThieves: what's the password? what.

16:47:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 150 @ 0.00135202 = 0.2028 BTC [+]

16:48:10 fluffypony: "the no is like the wot"

16:48:55 ThickAsThieves: you know what is fucking criminal?

16:48:58 ThickAsThieves: Opt Out

16:49:26 ThickAsThieves: ATT sends me email about some privacy shiz and says "To allow AT&T to use your CPNI, no further action is required. "

16:49:58 mircea_popescu: evil.

16:50:18 ThickAsThieves: so TOL again (thinking out loud)

16:50:31 ThickAsThieves: should i be able to add someone to the WoT myself

16:50:36 ThickAsThieves: like AT&T

16:50:41 ThickAsThieves: so i can negrate them?

16:50:59 mircea_popescu: this would be fucking ideal, but unfortunately it'd yield fragmentation.

16:51:09 mircea_popescu: the wot already has a massive zooke triangle problem

16:51:23 ThickAsThieves: this seems to be a problem to me

16:51:34 ThickAsThieves: the chronicles didnt require a king to auth

16:51:36 fluffypony: zooke triangle? google not giving me love

16:51:36 mircea_popescu: (and the fact good names aren't being squatted to fuck amazes me, and it is a testament to the fundamental economic ineptitude of geeks)

16:52:12 benkay: seeking greater ev

16:52:17 mircea_popescu: fluffypony a naming system can be secure, memorable and global

16:52:19 ThickAsThieves: it is the chronicle that needed to be auth'd, or the rater

16:52:19 mircea_popescu: pick two

16:52:27 benkay: hey so i have my conjectures but how the hell does this work: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/this-tower-pulls-drinking-water-out-of-thin-air-180950399/ ?

16:52:29 fluffypony: ah

16:52:39 mircea_popescu: benkay condensation ?

16:53:02 ThickAsThieves: it says so right on the caption

16:53:13 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the chronicles didn't work that fucking well, either.

16:53:19 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: maybe the WoT should allow rating someone unknown based on their public GPG key, if it is known?

16:53:26 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lol i didn't click. i guess he's a slow reader.

16:53:37 mircea_popescu: fluffypony only one way to verify it is them.

16:53:40 benkay: mircea_popescu: what delta-t is it leveraging, though?

16:53:53 benkay: ground?

16:53:54 mircea_popescu: the problem here is that people interact with an entity calling itself at&t and using a non-gribble method of authing.

16:54:17 mircea_popescu: so now trust is created that's not wot-based. so in a sense old people are attacking the wot through being... stupid.

16:54:21 mircea_popescu: this will go away on its own.

16:54:37 ThickAsThieves: yeah, i think it's only a temporary problem

16:54:40 mircea_popescu: already good software is gpg based as a matter of course. so what if microsoft doesn't want to sign ?

16:54:45 ThickAsThieves: but temporary is relative...

16:55:05 ThickAsThieves: but basically att not being in the wor, makes them a scammer

16:55:22 ThickAsThieves: but we have no competitors in the wot either

16:56:24 benkay: (someone start a cell company!)

16:56:31 ThickAsThieves: lol, you have to actually tick a box on the opt out page https://www.att.com/ecpnioptout/InitiateCPNIForm.action

16:56:42 ThickAsThieves: it already has no other purpose

16:59:15 fluffypony: I see ICANN now forces you to verify your email if you list your actual contact details on your domain

16:59:23 fluffypony: at least, with the domains I registered today I had to

16:59:35 fluffypony: because email addresses are hard to create.

17:07:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15421 @ 0.00098314 = 15.161 BTC [-]

17:15:51 benkay: did pLambert ever sort out the signature of that testament?

17:17:33 TomServo: signed with a weak key, last I saw.

17:18:02 benkay: was this the key that didn't match the wot key associated with the name?

17:18:03 benkay: and also

17:18:12 benkay: ;;seen mrs tick ball

17:18:12 gribble: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.

17:18:16 benkay: ;;seen mrstickball

17:18:16 gribble: mrstickball was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 hours, 27 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <mrstickball> 107 PH.... nice

17:26:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00098403 = 11.3655 BTC [+] {2}

17:26:43 mrstickball: hi

17:28:12 mrstickball: ;;gettrust mrstickblal

17:28:13 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickblal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickblal | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickblal | Rated since: never

17:28:18 mrstickball: ;;gettrust mrstickball

17:28:19 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickball: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickball | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickball | Rated since: Fri Jul 5 18:09:54 2013

17:29:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.5245 = 6.294 BTC [-] {2}

17:29:58 jurov: hahaha dat graph

17:31:14 benkay: infinity trust

17:35:37 benkay: what's the fraudsters line about business being insulated from the public?

17:35:41 benkay: mircea_popescu: ^^

17:35:54 benkay: early bitcoin post, talking about the 30B MPEx fee.

17:43:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00098082 = 17.9 BTC [-] {3}

17:49:05 mircea_popescu: uh

17:49:41 mircea_popescu: ;;google fraudsters "poisonous offering"

17:49:42 gribble: Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea ...: http://fraudsters.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/; Strategic superiority, a saga pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga/; The Ukranian Trilemma - Canadian International Council: http://opencanada.org/features/the-think-tank/comments (1 more message)

17:49:44 mircea_popescu: that ?

17:52:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 20 @ 0.14 = 2.8 BTC

17:52:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21093 @ 0.00098456 = 20.7673 BTC [+]

17:53:13 ThickAsThieves: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/maidsafe-embroiled-safecoin-presale-mastercoin-pump-dump/2014/04/22

17:54:46 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I'm so surprised, and I'm sure bitcoinpete will be too

17:54:51 fluffypony: he had such high hopes for the project

17:56:56 fluffypony: https://blockchain.info/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E

17:56:57 ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E

17:56:57 ThickAsThieves: to all, would you be interested in free Altcoin stickers? note that this would involve providing a mailing address to me or an intermediary

17:56:58 fluffypony: wtf

17:57:03 fluffypony: 4460 BTC so far?

17:57:39 kakobrekla: see, i told you retards still have ze money.

17:58:15 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I'd love some, can I reimburse you for them?

17:59:05 mircea_popescu: what is that addy anyway ?

17:59:21 ThickAsThieves: i could provide a tip address after the fact or such, but no payment would be required

17:59:36 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: the maidsafe address

17:59:47 fluffypony: from http://www.safecoin.io

18:00:48 ThickAsThieves: it's funny how maidsafe will no longer accept mastercoins, the very platform they chose

18:03:47 ThickAsThieves: DarkMarket is a decentralised P2P marketplace which cannot be shut down. It can be joined by anyone and in many respects it looks rather mature, with identity and reputation rankings, seller pages, multisig escrow, private messaging and privacy features.

18:04:51 mircea_popescu: is it the first and biggest ?

18:05:25 fluffypony: assbot: is it amazing?

18:05:25 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

18:05:58 ThickAsThieves: it's the taaki-est

18:06:00 ThickAsThieves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHVqH8XO1Pk

18:06:00 ozbot: Airbitz & Libbitcoin Team Up to Create DarkMarket - YouTube

18:06:43 mircea_popescu: ahahaha WHAT

18:06:48 jborkl: mircea , got last block, time since last bloc and unconfirmed added also :)

18:07:10 mircea_popescu: people are like their worst fucking punishments

18:07:28 ThickAsThieves: i actually have a saying

18:07:39 ThickAsThieves: The life a man leads is punishment enough.

18:08:50 ThickAsThieves: the context is more around calming people down when they get all angry about welfare exploiters and such

18:10:55 ThickAsThieves: haha darkwallet gets a bsod during the presentation

18:11:27 jborkl: *rename darkwallet bluewallet

18:12:41 ThickAsThieves: !up only

18:12:41 assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.

18:13:37 only: mircea_popescu: not gonna fly, darkmarket?

18:14:44 jborkl: Darkmeat

18:15:06 jborkl: Darkmeet <- now that is a good pun

18:15:21 jborkl: stupid maid service

18:15:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06445866 = 0.1289 BTC [-]

18:15:51 mircea_popescu: only seems improbable.

18:15:54 ThickAsThieves: well according to the Popescu Theory of Economics, DarkMarket is missing at least a public forum

18:16:21 ThickAsThieves: after that i'd have questions about privacy over the system

18:16:26 mircea_popescu: im sure they have where to whine at each other

18:16:37 ThickAsThieves: well they have private disupte resolution

18:16:43 ThickAsThieves: dispute*

18:16:48 ThickAsThieves: didnt mention forum

18:16:54 ThickAsThieves: but would be an easy add

18:17:07 mircea_popescu: anyway, i hope taaki doesn't end up sending intenret hitmen to kill me or something

18:17:18 ThickAsThieves: just pay them more

18:17:28 ThickAsThieves: to hit him back

18:17:37 ThickAsThieves: CREAM

18:17:43 TomServo: lol

18:17:45 mircea_popescu: lol

18:17:52 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99226

18:17:52 ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

18:17:56 mircea_popescu: this is actually a pretty good q.

18:18:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 33 @ 0.00757584 = 0.25 BTC [-] {4}

18:19:32 only: so decentralizing a marketplace is another shitty pipe dream?

18:21:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06410013 = 0.1923 BTC [-] {2}

18:22:35 ThickAsThieves: depends what your expectation/definition of decentralization is i suppose

18:23:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16644 @ 0.00098898 = 16.4606 BTC [+]

18:25:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.528745 = 2.115 BTC [+] {3}

18:26:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5317 BTC [+]

18:27:26 bounce: to some people "decentralised" is a buzzword. "it must be decentralised!" -- yeah, sure. leaving aside the "how" for a moment (you did think that one through, didn't you?), there's the "then what?" as in how'd you use that in practice? did you just go from a single point of failure to N of those? how does that make the situation better? what if something goes wrong, someone rips you off, et cetera?

18:27:57 Naphex: i cant wait for decentralized voip with pay2relay telephony

18:28:17 only: ThickAsThieves: decentralizing the platform (similar to twister) and the escrow

18:28:52 jurov: benkay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_well_%28condenser%29

18:28:52 ThickAsThieves: well you cant decentralize escrow

18:29:05 bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?

18:29:16 only: ThickAsThieves: www.bitrated.com

18:30:16 dexX7: bitrated relies on a third party as mediator

18:30:27 ThickAsThieves: the 3rd party is the escrow

18:30:49 Naphex: set up community tribunal

18:30:56 Naphex: for mediations

18:31:03 Naphex: for the lulz

18:31:29 bounce: that'll be a riot.

18:31:40 ThickAsThieves: wouldnt you rather have one person that is good at it, than 50 that suck or are ill actors?

18:31:51 only: ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough?

18:32:03 ThickAsThieves: that's not decentralization

18:32:45 ThickAsThieves: decntralization would be distributing the risk, not necessarily randomizing it

18:32:47 benkay: jurov this thing'd be a radiative collector then?

18:33:12 Naphex: a normal market with escrow/mediations and marketable ads is enough imho

18:33:22 ThickAsThieves: some things are worse off decentralized

18:33:22 jurov: yes. but it tihnk the numbers are BS

18:33:34 Naphex: yet we still dont have that

18:33:59 jurov: it can get few liters per night at most

18:34:23 only: ThickAsThieves: but how is it worse off by being decentralized?

18:34:46 ThickAsThieves: which "it" do you mean?

18:35:47 ThickAsThieves: bounce may have already summed it up though

18:36:13 only: ThickAsThieves: it = consumer-to-consumer marketplace

18:36:14 jurov: me? i was replying to benkays' water tower sry

18:36:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06395923 = 0.6396 BTC [-]

18:36:55 ThickAsThieves: we hadnt discussed the overall decentralizing of a marketplace as a bad thing

18:37:03 benkay: ;;gettrust only

18:37:04 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user only: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=only | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=only | Rated since: Mon Feb 17 18:33:39 2014

18:37:07 dexX7: well trustless cross-chain trading is possible (sort of) as well as colored coins <> btc markets

18:37:40 ThickAsThieves: it would involve dentralizing the software and content

18:37:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06395923 = 0.1919 BTC [-]

18:37:58 ThickAsThieves: and then ensuring security and privacy

18:38:09 ThickAsThieves: which is where their plan is most likely to fail

18:38:18 ThickAsThieves: but i havent seen their method

18:39:06 ThickAsThieves: they'd also need to provide same security and privacy to any host of the pieces of the system

18:39:59 ThickAsThieves: as in, if one person is selling weed in a jurisdiction he is not allowed, and you are host to that, you are now a target

18:42:32 only: not to mention the kiddie porn

18:44:37 ThickAsThieves: well that raises another point, if it's really decentralized, how is it moderated?

18:45:02 ThickAsThieves: not saying it HAS to be moderated

18:45:23 ThickAsThieves: but...

18:45:58 dexX7: what are you referring to by "it"?

18:46:42 ThickAsThieves: the market

18:46:47 ThickAsThieves: and its contents

18:47:42 davout: !up only

18:47:42 assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.

18:47:44 jborkl: Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides? probation?previously slated to end in September 2013?will now continue for another two years.

19:00:23 mircea_popescu: yeah what bounce said.

19:00:57 mircea_popescu: Naphex> set up community tribunal << you know how well that worked, do you.

19:01:16 mircea_popescu: <only> ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough? << definitely not.

19:09:42 ThickAsThieves: Blockchain Strikes Five Year Deal to Exclusively Manage Bitcoin.com

19:09:48 ThickAsThieves: (.info)

19:10:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10437 @ 0.00098898 = 10.322 BTC [+]

19:12:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2507 @ 0.00098782 = 2.4765 BTC [-]

19:12:46 Naphex: hehe

19:12:56 Naphex: mircea_popescu: league of legends

19:13:15 Naphex: the game actually set up a community tribunal

19:13:59 Naphex: and its filled with the funniest things ever.

19:18:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03074998 = 0.369 BTC [+] {4}

19:18:51 Naphex: so let the users post evidence and yell, and let the community decide :D

19:22:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40673 @ 0.00098103 = 39.9014 BTC [-] {2}

19:22:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 14 @ 0.00800009 = 0.112 BTC [-] {4}

19:28:58 fluffypony: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/dogecoin-memes-versus-reality/2014/02/24

19:29:13 fluffypony: " 75% of the total number of all Dogecoins are held by 0.75% of investors AND this inequity has been INCREASING"

19:30:09 dexX7: afaik the lol tribunal works quite well and reduced toxic player behavior greatly

19:33:36 fluffypony: !up only

19:33:36 assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.

19:34:11 only: thanks fluffypony

19:34:22 fluffypony: no problemo

19:35:34 mircea_popescu: Naphex http://fraudsters.com/category/rota/

19:35:56 fluffypony: didn't the rota only have 1 case?

19:36:04 fluffypony: I would've loved to have seen more

19:36:36 mircea_popescu: fluffypony it's actually a measure of their thing failing. in the sense they can't pass off the scamcoin fast enough for their dump-and-dillute engine to actually extract enough value out of the environment to keep the ball rolling.

19:36:49 mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah, only one case. i suspect now i built it the wrong way,

19:37:04 dexX7: what would you make different next time?

19:37:05 mircea_popescu: because YES loltribunals do work, not just on league of legends, but here too.

19:37:08 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: that article really tears the coin apart...gets a little weird in places, but makes REALLY good points

19:37:18 mircea_popescu: dexX7 i think it'd look a lot more like bitcoin-assets.

19:38:42 dexX7: the lol tribunal is so many dimensions less complex than "real" cases so i'm not sure, if it's possible to draw conclusions based on that

19:38:57 only: "bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?" - can't one hard code an escrow commission into a p2p app?

19:39:22 fluffypony: hard code can be changed

19:39:36 bounce: then do so. :-)

19:39:39 bounce: http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/coinfloor-mulling-plan-to-launch-new-bitcoin-market-for-institutional-investors-29676

19:39:42 ozbot: Coinfloor Mulling Plan to Launch New Bitcoin Market for Institutional Investors | Forex Minute - Fin

19:40:13 bounce: then again, if it's p2p, and now you get to pay someone else for the privilege of hosting the service yourself, er, why'd you use the app at all?

19:41:48 only: you pay that someone for the privilege of using the app he coded

19:42:06 only: unless there is a free alternative

19:43:04 only: but why would anyone build one (your argument)

19:45:53 mircea_popescu: bounce lol. who the fuck is coinfloor again

19:45:54 chetty: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/vkontakte-founder-durov-flees-russia-with-no-plans-to-return/498715.html

19:46:27 mircea_popescu: chetty wb!

19:46:35 mircea_popescu: people missed you in timisoara

19:46:58 chetty: thanks MP, yeah bummer I miss all the fun

19:48:32 bounce: https://coinfloor.co.uk/team says mark lamb, obi nwosu, amadeo pellicce, and "the team" (among them james "nefario" mccarthy as "senior developer")

19:49:19 mircea_popescu: all famous btc people nobody's heard of.

19:49:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99228 you gotta read this srsly i'm creaming my pants over here.

19:55:46 davout: !up Oleanie

19:55:46 assbot: Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.

19:56:11 Oleanie: ;;rate davout 2

19:56:13 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user davout has been recorded.

19:56:41 dexX7: <only> can you please voice me?

19:57:01 davout: !up only

19:57:01 assbot: Voice for only extended to 30 minutes.

19:59:36 only: davout, dexX7 was already voiced, but thanks

20:00:11 dexX7: ah, only saw your query a few seconds ago and didn't really notice

20:01:16 bounce: such spamm0r

20:01:29 bounce: lucky this isn't -otc then eh

20:03:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00097978 = 26.4541 BTC [-] {3}

20:03:43 ThickAsThieves: <+Oleanie> ;;rate davout 2 /// haha davout only gets a 2 from his better half

20:06:13 davout: ThickAsThieves: yea, teach your gf GPG, end up in an argument about how she only got rated 3

20:07:19 ThickAsThieves: so by Mirceanomics, Bitcoin is an economy itself, right?

20:07:43 ThickAsThieves: bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum?

20:07:56 jurov: how is blockchain the gazette?

20:08:09 ThickAsThieves: it is a record of all transactions

20:08:19 ThickAsThieves: including unsuccessful ones, no?

20:08:36 TomServo: I thought he suggested the WoT was the gazette, and this chan the forum

20:08:47 chetty: lmao Mirceanomics, a new school is born

20:08:54 jurov: i understood the gazette as transaction history *with human sematics*

20:08:55 bounce: haven't really paid attention to exactly what putin said in response to snowden, but them russkies don't appear to engage in dragnet-and-store type surveillance. they know very well who they're after and they're good at it, if not very subtle.

20:08:56 ThickAsThieves: i'm applying it, not defining it tomservo

20:09:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18893 @ 0.00098165 = 18.5463 BTC [+] {2}

20:09:29 jurov: bounce you saw they just openly snatched vkontakte?

20:09:39 bounce: yeah I read that link

20:10:27 ThickAsThieves: if the theory can be applied to the Sun and elements, surely applying it to the Bitcoin system isn't absurd

20:10:34 jurov: only and anybody else: if you have significant coinbr volume amd want voice, ask me

20:10:53 ThickAsThieves: i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists

20:11:31 bounce: jurov's trade for ratings programme, now with volume discounts

20:12:27 jurov: >:D

20:12:28 chetty: ThickAsThieves, yup, nothing new under the sun. But this version has less trash attached

20:13:31 jurov: but it reserve the right to decide. even tiberiusiv had some coinbr volume

20:13:37 jurov: *I reserve

20:14:44 ThickAsThieves: jurov, also the blockchain does allow storage of text

20:16:23 jurov: hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings

20:16:40 ThickAsThieves: mirceanomics speaks nothing of ratings

20:16:50 jurov: unless everyone agrees on special protocol for the O_RETURN text

20:16:57 ThickAsThieves: only punishments

20:18:04 jurov: ooookay , so i'll rephrase specially for you

20:18:25 jurov: it does not allow punishment records, unless...etc

20:18:54 ThickAsThieves: could you say that an orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx is a punishment?

20:18:55 jurov: !up sunshyne

20:18:55 assbot: Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.

20:19:04 jurov: nope

20:19:18 ThickAsThieves: why not?

20:19:42 jurov: how can you cause orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx on purpose whne someone scams you?

20:20:01 jurov: unless you're kncminer

20:20:34 ThickAsThieves: i'm merely trying to see whether Bitcoin would qualify as another echo to apply it to, not whether it fits a perfect example

20:20:43 ThickAsThieves: like the Sun example

20:20:57 ThickAsThieves: you wont get hydrogen reporting helium for scamming

20:21:42 ThickAsThieves: i think whether it applies might lead to other interesting things

20:22:06 ThickAsThieves: i've got this hammer now, and trying to sort out what it can smash and what it can build

20:22:18 ThickAsThieves: or whether it's a hammer at all

20:22:27 ThickAsThieves: maybe it's a ruler

20:22:37 ThickAsThieves: maybe it's a cloud of smoke

20:22:51 jurov: youre stretching it too extreme... then the blackhole is punishment gazette too

20:23:13 jurov: if the theory that hawking radiation carries information about whatever fell in

20:23:18 jurov: is correct

20:23:31 jurov: *and* you wait 10^10^100 years or so

20:24:22 ThickAsThieves: to give you an example of what i mean

20:24:30 ThickAsThieves: say bitcoin is an economy

20:24:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 106 @ 0.03112262 = 3.299 BTC [-] {4}

20:24:40 ThickAsThieves: is the gazette itself also one? could it be?

20:24:48 ThickAsThieves: same for he forum

20:25:30 jurov: i'd think about real world example like pirate's coins or gox coins

20:25:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0325 = 0.13 BTC [+]

20:26:08 Naphex: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html

20:26:09 jurov: even if they managed to mark them in the blockchain

20:26:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12294 @ 0.00098721 = 12.1368 BTC [+] {2}

20:26:35 jurov: we need extra-blockchain information to assess them

20:27:36 jurov: you won't get useful info whether to trust gox from only some "mtgox" tag

20:28:27 jurov: you need karpeles' head on the pike plus public record what he did

20:29:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4398 @ 0.00098398 = 4.3275 BTC [-]

20:30:07 chetty: karpeles record is pretty public

20:31:32 ThickAsThieves: jurov i somewhat disagree

20:31:50 ThickAsThieves: (note i'm taking this position for sake of the debate, i have no conclusion)

20:32:19 ThickAsThieves: first, the theory doesnt require consensus judgment and punishment (head on pike)

20:32:33 ThickAsThieves: it only requires communicating the actions punishable

20:32:54 ThickAsThieves: "punishment" in its terms are merely individually given

20:33:27 ThickAsThieves: and then those would then be interpreted separately by any individual user

20:33:42 ThickAsThieves: i may decide mark's head didnt belong on a pike

20:33:52 ThickAsThieves: you may express you think it should be piked

20:33:54 ThickAsThieves: et

20:33:55 ThickAsThieves: c

20:34:25 ThickAsThieves: [16:26] <+jurov> we need extra-blockchain information to assess them /// do we? each address may function as a user/reputation

20:34:48 ThickAsThieves: and we do have a source for extra-info, the bitcoin software

20:35:35 ThickAsThieves: it's interesting to me to see how much the 3 separate elements would/could function as economies themselves, and how their traits might converge

20:35:48 ThickAsThieves: as in the gazette now wants to be decentalized, like bitcoin

20:35:56 mircea_popescu: o hey

20:35:58 chetty: if the judgement is individual isnt the choice of information source also individual?

20:36:11 ThickAsThieves: well just use the WoT for reference

20:36:22 jurov: okay, my another objection is that rating is not done at the same time as transaction

20:36:26 ThickAsThieves: is the gazette also an economy?

20:36:36 mircea_popescu: ;;rate Oleanie 1 liked my rose

20:36:37 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Oleanie has been recorded.

20:36:49 ThickAsThieves: jurov that's also not a requirement of the theory as stated

20:37:23 jurov: no that was my objection to using current bitcoin blockchain

20:37:25 ThickAsThieves: no requirement to be timely in your rating

20:37:52 mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum? << it's a very limited economy at that, but i guess so.

20:38:32 ThickAsThieves: if the WoT is decentralized, and has verification methods, signing, identities, etc, and bitcoin also does, they start to converge in their features

20:38:37 mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself.

20:38:56 ThickAsThieves: (bitcoin and the WoT)

20:39:06 mircea_popescu: <jurov> hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings << 0 to 20, -10 to 10, no diff.

20:39:46 jurov: yes that's the protocol that must be agreed upon

20:40:20 ThickAsThieves: what might be the medium of exchange in the WoT? Rating points, right?

20:40:47 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it has no medium of exchange it'd seem, because points are created and destroyed

20:40:57 mircea_popescu: bitcoins, you will note, are never destroyed. neiuther is gold.

20:41:06 ThickAsThieves: maybe just requires creative interpretation

20:41:31 mircea_popescu: neither are fiat bills (not in the sense of the physical bill, but in the sense of it being authorised, it'll get reprinted, and trhe bill is that trademark that spawns the authirisation)

20:41:33 jurov: blockchain.info's "taint analysis" is very crude implementation of WoT, perhaps?

20:41:40 ThickAsThieves: every user has 40 points they can work with, unto any other user

20:41:47 ThickAsThieves: you cant create them

20:41:50 ThickAsThieves: only allocate

20:41:54 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is what someone was proposing at conference, when i introduced fain

20:42:02 mircea_popescu: and how constants don't work

20:42:11 mircea_popescu: so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be

20:42:39 ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> <ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself. /// one thing it reminds me of is your basic escrow deal

20:42:42 benkay: fain?

20:42:45 benkay: mircea_popescu: ^^

20:43:07 mircea_popescu: benkay for years before and some time during bitcoin i had a romanian language digg style thing.

20:43:11 mircea_popescu: it had no moderators and no spam.

20:43:34 benkay: no wai

20:43:37 mircea_popescu: yes wai.

20:43:40 benkay: perpetuum mobile

20:43:46 mircea_popescu: it drove most of .ro traffic at some point.

20:44:11 benkay: wow well extravagant claims etc. how'd you do that?

20:44:29 mircea_popescu: prop sauce, but basically it leveraged individual actions to evaluate everyone else's.

20:44:50 mircea_popescu: not so hard to distinguish machines from humans if your machine has a stable with many humans

20:45:27 ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be /// well i can accumulate points no? and at any given time, a maximum amount can be had, and every time a user joins anew, the system inflates to accommodate

20:45:33 jurov: i'd extend a punishment gazette with 3. shared protocol and then maybe public forum can be simplified away

20:45:42 benkay: mircea_popescu: i assume the normal 'upvoting rings' developed and existed?

20:45:50 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ?

20:45:58 mircea_popescu: benkay not effectually, no.

20:46:04 mircea_popescu: let me dig some pretty graphs.

20:46:29 ThickAsThieves: my rating points are held by every user that hasnt given them to me yet

20:46:59 ThickAsThieves: if they take them away, they still exist

20:47:02 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/activitatea-utilizatorilor-pe-fain/

20:47:03 ozbot: Activitatea utilizatorilor pe fain pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

20:47:03 mircea_popescu: there.

20:47:25 benkay: pretty indeed.

20:47:34 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2011/sa-desenam-cu-fain/ same thing, earlier

20:47:35 ozbot: Sa desenam cu fain pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

20:47:40 benkay: are collusive rings in these content farms necessarily a bad thing?

20:48:32 ThickAsThieves: it's not a typical economy, cuz it has allocation idiosyncracies, but i'm not sure if that disqualifies it

20:48:33 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2011/istoria-unui-proiect-online/ user activity.

20:48:33 ozbot: Istoria unui proiect online pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

20:48:38 mircea_popescu: peaks at 10k comments/day

20:48:52 mircea_popescu: benkay no. they're only bad if they dominate

20:48:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00098529 = 23.4006 BTC [+] {2}

20:48:57 mircea_popescu: otherwise they form and dissolve naturally.

20:49:18 ThickAsThieves: in fact, don't people do things at times strictly for the points?

20:49:31 benkay: what drives formation/dissolution vs dominion?

20:49:56 jurov: !up cgcardona_

20:49:56 assbot: Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.

20:50:05 jurov: !up tyrion70

20:50:05 assbot: Voicing tyrion70 for 30 minutes.

20:50:10 cgcardona_: thank you

20:50:27 mrstickball: benkay: did you need me for anything?

20:51:20 ThickAsThieves: furthermore, <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ? /// where is it in your theory that this matters?

20:52:48 ThickAsThieves: also, i'm with jurov, i see some weakness in the gazette/forum definitions and separation

20:53:07 mircea_popescu: benkay that's ocmplicated.

20:53:11 ThickAsThieves: first, the gazette does not require identification in your definition

20:53:26 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves 3.it conserves over time.

20:53:30 ThickAsThieves: however psuedononymous, it may be, identification is required, right?

20:53:49 chetty: oh hey, they up the ante on why btc is bad

20:53:52 chetty: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609971/Disturbing-new-internet-child-abuse-sees-toddlers-raped-burned-live-webcam-paedophiles-use-Bitcoin-stop-traced-warns-police-chief.html

20:53:52 ozbot: Europol director warns of paedophiles using Bitcoin to view webcams | Mail Online

20:54:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15979 @ 0.00097873 = 15.6391 BTC [-] {2}

20:54:12 cgcardona_: wow thats some url slug

20:54:21 mircea_popescu: chetty daily mail raped babies ?

20:54:37 mircea_popescu: outrageous. i hope the police catches up with them and gives them what for.

20:54:40 ThickAsThieves: hmm maybe i dont fully understand the conserving over time aspect

20:55:04 ThickAsThieves: you mean i can accumulate it?

20:55:07 mircea_popescu: you familiar with the conservation of energy ?

20:55:16 mircea_popescu: even if you expend it, it still goes somewhere.

20:55:27 ThickAsThieves: ah

20:55:46 ThickAsThieves: but didnt i cover that?

20:56:02 Naphex: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26707586

20:56:03 ozbot: BBC News - Nigeria: Police probe Ibadan 'house of horror'

20:56:09 mircea_popescu: well, if i unrate you now, where do the points go ?

20:56:24 ThickAsThieves: you took them from me

20:56:31 mircea_popescu: "About 150 soldiers from the 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), based in Italy, are heading to each of four countries ? Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia ? in rotational deployments that the Pentagon says will be sustained until further notice." herp.

20:56:36 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well so where are they ?

20:57:06 ThickAsThieves: the system doesnt need to track them visibly because the system allocates for each ouser in it

20:57:30 ThickAsThieves: for every user, every other user gets 20 neg coins and 20 pos coins

20:57:55 ThickAsThieves: each user may spend them on each other specific user only

20:58:20 ThickAsThieves: under the arrangement that you may also take them back

20:58:21 mircea_popescu: this breaks conservation.

20:59:00 ThickAsThieves: it doesnt just mean it's an economy with special rules?

20:59:11 mircea_popescu: nope.

20:59:16 mircea_popescu: it means it has no moe

20:59:18 ThickAsThieves: i mean i could certainly barter for rating points

20:59:57 ThickAsThieves: i could perform services for pos coins, etc

21:00:01 mircea_popescu: but your proposition was that the rating points are the moe.

21:00:13 mircea_popescu: if they don't conserve, they're not a moe.

21:00:30 mircea_popescu: kinda why doge is a dodgy scam : cause their coins don't conserve.

21:00:40 ThickAsThieves: so the fact that they can be taken back is where it breaks or?

21:00:45 ThickAsThieves: i missed the specific fault

21:01:07 mircea_popescu: the fact that the points do not conserve. think of a medium of exchange as a family.

21:01:13 mircea_popescu: while you can take kids or give them away

21:01:18 mircea_popescu: you can never kill one.

21:01:37 ThickAsThieves: when it is a rating point killed?

21:01:47 mircea_popescu: when you unrate whoever

21:01:53 ThickAsThieves: you took it back

21:01:56 ThickAsThieves: it still exists

21:02:01 ThickAsThieves: you can give it back to me right?

21:02:14 mircea_popescu: so you want 10 points for each user pair ?

21:02:20 ThickAsThieves: if it was killed, you couldnt give back to me

21:02:25 ThickAsThieves: therefore it's not killed

21:02:25 mircea_popescu: and each new user that joins creates n! coins ?

21:02:29 ThickAsThieves: right

21:02:40 mircea_popescu: you got any idea what n! computes to ?

21:02:47 ThickAsThieves: does it matter?

21:03:05 mircea_popescu: in a much softer sense than before, this'd be practical.

21:03:08 ThickAsThieves: thats why the economy has special rules

21:03:30 ThickAsThieves: it is, for lack of a better term, perfectly and dynamically balanced

21:03:34 mircea_popescu: i guess if your wotcoin actually works so that every user gets 10 coins for every other user present

21:03:40 mircea_popescu: then you technically can argue this is a moe.

21:03:45 ThickAsThieves: bam!

21:03:55 ThickAsThieves: so that's 2 out of 3

21:04:01 mircea_popescu: forums are very easy.

21:04:18 mircea_popescu: as much as an irc chan for your wotcoin can suffice.

21:04:34 mircea_popescu: takes 1 second.

21:04:45 ThickAsThieves: to spare me arguing for it, how do you explain forum is an economy?

21:05:02 mircea_popescu: "forum is an economy" wut ?

21:05:24 thestringpuller: uh

21:05:29 thestringpuller: i come back to read "forum is economy"

21:05:30 ThickAsThieves: my efforts here are to explore whether each of your 3 aspects are an economy themselves

21:05:51 ThickAsThieves: and in doing do, learn more about how they interact

21:06:00 mircea_popescu: for all we care 4chan or dtng were economies.

21:06:04 ThickAsThieves: and if one is not an economy whether that can polish the theory

21:06:13 mircea_popescu: the moe is "sauce pls" or w/e.

21:06:28 ThickAsThieves: like, why are the gazette and forum even separate things?

21:06:40 mircea_popescu: they don't have to be separate in practice

21:06:54 mircea_popescu: they're separated in theory, like your pulse and blood pressure are separate

21:06:58 ThickAsThieves: ok

21:06:59 mircea_popescu: even if you know... you need a blood for both.

21:07:21 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller sad fate eh.

21:08:08 mircea_popescu: "The Bureau of Prisons views any bartering among prisoners as fishy" << funny, seeing how they trade is mostly macks.

21:08:47 ThickAsThieves: it's also possible identifying these all as economies may help distill/evolve the overall theory

21:09:00 ThickAsThieves: i'm just poking and prodding

21:09:07 mircea_popescu: surely. it's a good thing.

21:09:43 mircea_popescu: currently the entire thing is "hey guise, check out this shit i made. i call it... a box cutter. it cuts everything"

21:09:55 mircea_popescu: it's to be expected we'd live in a world of gashes and slashes for a while.

21:10:24 benkay: do economies have to conserve over time?

21:10:36 ThickAsThieves: i also want to demonstrate to others in public so they may be motivated to do a better job than me at prodding it

21:11:03 benkay: or do things increase the size of the pie?

21:11:04 ThickAsThieves: rather than sit there and go "oh cool, long live mircea!"

21:11:06 mircea_popescu: benkay just the moe in order to be a moe.

21:11:26 jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reyt3uiQqI8 <<< my impression of thickasthieves' arguing

21:11:26 ozbot: Treadmill Bike - YouTube

21:11:38 mircea_popescu: and an important point is : practical implementations will be more or less neatly mapped on the theoretical requirements. they may still function

21:11:59 mircea_popescu: but the theory predicts that specific changes will be observable to reduce or mitigate the damage due to the particular vulnerabilities.

21:12:12 mircea_popescu: much like kids playing insta-ban specific behaviours they perceive as "unfair"

21:12:23 mircea_popescu: they're obviously in no sense unfair, but they do break the mapping, which is undesirable.

21:13:27 mircea_popescu: so if they're playing poker with bad cards (say, easy to recognise the queen of hearts) they may cut the queen of hearts game utility.

21:13:38 mircea_popescu: like, "but you only get 2/3 of the pot if you win it with a qh" or w/e.

21:14:07 mircea_popescu: it's nonsense to see such a rule in poker, per se. but in the context, as they're trying to map shit to a deck of cards, it makes sense. the change is due to the flaw.

21:14:41 mircea_popescu: in this sense, the fiat taboo on counterfitting is nonsensical, but we didn't notice this to be the case until bitcoin mapped better on the actual reality.

21:15:34 mircea_popescu: similarly, the fiat interdiction on theft, or the bizarre expectations of forumers (whoi mostly live in fiat, cause they're not smart enough for their culture to be programmable by themselves), indignant at hao dares bitbet not "refund"

21:17:35 chetty: hmm bitcoin actually helps point out all the bad queens that have been mapped around over the years

21:17:45 mircea_popescu: yup.

21:17:50 mircea_popescu: well, at least some of them.

21:18:09 mircea_popescu: people arguing about how bitcoin will be obsoleted by "better tech", like that w3c muppet are mostly talking out of their ears.

21:18:20 mircea_popescu: imagine, something finding even better hiden queens ? it'll be centuries baby.

21:18:43 joecool: last i checked we were still using troy ounces for gold

21:18:51 joecool: and everyone hates that system

21:18:53 chetty: well I suppose bitcoin will start its own mapping

21:20:13 benkay: 1B -> /n/gAu, eventually.

21:20:19 benkay: give it three decades.

21:22:00 mircea_popescu: !up cgcardona_

21:22:00 assbot: Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.

21:22:30 cgcardona_: thank you sir. I authed w/ gribble. guess I forgot to !up

21:23:12 mircea_popescu: :p

21:25:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 11 @ 0.0097 = 0.1067 BTC [+]

21:25:59 ThickAsThieves: i think my personal !up rule will be, I will up you on your first day, or if you are in mobile situations, otherwise, get with the program

21:26:35 mircea_popescu: i kinda up new faces

21:27:35 jurov: well.. that bitbet thing... if someone transferred money in error, it has become common sense to return them

21:28:11 mircea_popescu: there's nothing common or sensible about common sense

21:28:16 jurov: i don';t see how abandoning that notion is an improvement

21:28:25 mircea_popescu: but it depends what you're improving.

21:28:38 jurov: you clearly label that as improvement

21:28:46 mircea_popescu: has it become common sense that if you run over someone you back your car up ?

21:28:46 jurov: i woder how so?

21:28:51 chetty: there is a difference between error and attempt to cheat ...

21:29:10 ThickAsThieves: i feel like i missed the beginning of this conversation

21:29:18 mircea_popescu: i kinda have the same feeling

21:29:18 jurov: in bitbet case, both can easily be treated in the same way

21:29:32 mircea_popescu: all things can easily be treated in the same way

21:29:55 jurov: me sending something to expired addy is in no way harming bitbet

21:30:37 mircea_popescu: that's not actually true.

21:30:42 chetty: if you do it a hundred times it is, takes time and effort to clean up

21:30:44 mircea_popescu: it is harming it in ways you decide to neglect.

21:31:03 mircea_popescu: which is improper, it's not your place to make that decision. it's bitbet's.

21:31:03 davout: jurov: the rationale is that if you count as valid bets that were sent very close to the time limit, and refund those who confirmed slightly after, you're creating an incentive to cheat since failure at cheating isn't punished

21:31:29 mircea_popescu: davout s/punished/punishable/

21:32:24 ThickAsThieves: what's the current rule, if you miss closing you get a refund, if you miss resolution yer fucked?

21:32:36 jurov: yes

21:32:50 mircea_popescu: nah

21:33:06 davout: isn't it, if you miss either you're fucked ?

21:33:13 ThickAsThieves: it should be

21:33:36 mircea_popescu: currently it works like so : if your bet makes it on bitbet after the bet is closed, it goes to dividends. if your bet makes it before it's closed but after an arbitrary time selected by bitbet mods, you get it back minus 1%

21:34:17 ThickAsThieves: so the only cirumstance for refund is if it's just before closing?

21:34:30 ThickAsThieves: (in this context)

21:35:06 ThickAsThieves: why not publish a fixed time, like 10min before close

21:35:39 mircea_popescu: because it's not fixed, because the bet event can resolve at any given time,

21:35:45 mircea_popescu: whereas the moderators are human beings.

21:35:54 ThickAsThieves: but it is closed at one specific time

21:36:04 ThickAsThieves: nevermind

21:36:04 mircea_popescu: the interval between where the bet event unexpectedly took place and the time when the mod got around to closing the bet is by its nature variable

21:36:05 ThickAsThieves: i get it

21:36:07 jurov: do you have evidence it actually deters cheating?

21:36:26 mircea_popescu: jurov yes, actually.

21:36:44 ThickAsThieves: that's actually the best argument ive heard for the arbitrary aspect so far

21:36:52 ThickAsThieves: surprised it didnt come up before

21:36:56 mircea_popescu: it's what i've been sayinbg all along, but hey.

21:37:02 mircea_popescu: form occasionally beats function.

21:37:32 ThickAsThieves: but the testingunodostres example does still ring sour

21:37:52 ThickAsThieves: but at least i have a somewhat digestible justfication now

21:38:03 mircea_popescu: rings sour to me too.

21:38:21 mircea_popescu: kinda what business is, staying above of an ever rising tide of sour.

21:39:45 mircea_popescu: http://www.jaktogo.com/

21:39:46 ozbot: Jaktogo - travel solution for your extra luggage

21:39:53 mircea_popescu: check out the new terrorist bomber blazer.

21:42:13 ThickAsThieves: would look nice with a pair of Google Glasses

21:42:38 bounce: right, that's the first one I head about. there's a few more that produce a similar thing these days though.

21:43:02 ThickAsThieves: Estimated Next Difficulty: 8,193,502,073 (+17.40%)

21:43:40 ThickAsThieves: http://bitbet.us/bet/740/may-i-suggest-9b-difficulty/?ref=1NfXM69erAWPDdNrZ2k2UkuV7HDPc6Ebwk

21:43:44 ozbot: BitBet - May I suggest 9B difficulty?

21:43:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22348 @ 0.00095446 = 21.3303 BTC [-] {2}

21:44:32 bounce: there's (at least) also rufus roo, bagket, and stuffa jacket

21:51:11 mircea_popescu: it'

21:51:13 mircea_popescu: s done, the diff ?

21:51:15 mircea_popescu: .d

21:51:15 ozbot: 6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1170 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6493% in 6d 23h 55m 34s

21:51:35 mircea_popescu: justabout.

21:51:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC

21:52:24 ThickAsThieves: i thought my backup drive died while away, turns out it was just the power supply

21:52:28 ThickAsThieves: never had that happen before

21:55:00 bounce: now you know. PSUs die too.

21:55:20 ThickAsThieves: sure, in computers, all the time

21:55:26 ThickAsThieves: but this is a wall wart

21:56:17 bounce: well, obviously, /those/ cannot ever die.

21:56:56 ThickAsThieves: :)

21:57:07 ThickAsThieves: now yer speakin mah langwidge

22:22:59 fluffypony: wb ThickAsThieves

22:25:22 ThickAsThieves: turns out it wasnt the hard drive psu

22:25:31 ThickAsThieves: i just had the wrong one plugged in

22:25:32 ThickAsThieves: derp

22:26:04 ThickAsThieves: my lair is upheaved due to solar installers

22:29:49 ThickAsThieves: btw

22:30:07 ThickAsThieves: the missus informs me that part of Mark Cuban's renewal contract with Shark Tank,

22:30:29 ThickAsThieves: required they no longer take a % of the company for themselves as a requirement to presenters

22:30:41 ThickAsThieves: and that the policy be *retroactive*

22:31:34 ThickAsThieves: ;;gettrust twizt

22:31:34 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user twizt: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ThickAsThieves&dest=twizt | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=twizt | Rated since: Mon Apr 14 23:22:42 2014

22:35:15 ThickAsThieves: lol, Wired farts out a whole article cuz GoT has incestual rape scene http://www.wired.com/2014/04/game-of-thrones-rape/

22:35:23 ThickAsThieves: commenters are all in a tizzy

22:35:34 ThickAsThieves: "Cry me a river. It's a fucking tv show."

22:35:48 ThickAsThieves: "o, it's not. It's a public statement made by the director of a TV show which implies that if a woman being raped begins to enjoy it, it was never rape in the first place. This is worthy of discussion since it is tantamount to saying that all women enjoy being raped because deep down, they all love it, and all of their screaming and crying and desperate fighting to defend themselves

22:35:49 ThickAsThieves: against rape are lies. (Insert obligatory comment about reading TFA before commenting here.)"

22:35:53 ThickAsThieves: N

22:40:21 ThickAsThieves: http://rt.com/usa/154120-nypd-hashtag-twitter-police/

22:44:18 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm around now, been out all day.

22:44:57 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I bet they thought that was a good idea at the time

22:45:28 mircea_popescu: o hey.

22:45:44 mircea_popescu: Naphex you here ?

22:46:59 fluffypony: weren't we talking about quantum computing earlier?

22:47:06 fluffypony: relevant: http://abstrusegoose.com/564

22:49:05 ThickAsThieves: not exactly flyffypony

22:49:33 fluffypony: oh it was mentioned in the context of Mirceanomics

22:49:37 fluffypony: I remember now

22:54:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 502 @ 0.00022073 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {3}

22:58:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.525 = 2.1 BTC [-]

22:59:40 asciilifeform: http://abstrusegoose.com/564 << this (unfortunately minus the second half!) actually happened.

22:59:40 ozbot: Abstruse Goose | Quantum Secrets

22:59:46 asciilifeform: ;;google lumped approximation

22:59:46 gribble: Lumped element model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumped_element_model; Lumped Approximation - inst.eecs: http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ee100/fa08/lectures/EE100supplementary_notes_1a.pdf; Lumped vs. Distributed Systems - CCRMA - Stanford University: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/NumericalInt/Lumped_vs_Distributed_Systems.html

23:00:19 asciilifeform: used to be, you had to understand maxwell's equations to fuck with electronics

23:00:21 BingoBoingo: http://fraudsters.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99232

23:00:22 ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

23:01:01 BingoBoingo: Everything comes back to Peirce

23:02:55 mircea_popescu: seems that way

23:03:19 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in case you missed: http://loper-os.org/pub/humans

23:05:19 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I saw. Seems I'll have to work on clearing up that awful pending legal matter so that I may cross borders next year.

23:05:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or build glider.

23:06:38 asciilifeform: me colleagues, viewing photos: 'damnit skip to the next one with the girl!'

23:07:10 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe that powdered alcohol will be cheap enough to build a rocket, because I don't anticipate it being very drinkable.

23:07:17 mircea_popescu: "Once the tobacco is on the compound, the pouches wholesale for 50 books of stamps, or $300 each. Each pouch is then broken down into 80 to 100 tiny rollups that cost one book each, or six dollars. A $3 pouch of Bugler ends up retailing inside for about $600?a 20,000% markup."

23:07:17 asciilifeform: i had to explain that these are not issued at the airport.

23:07:28 mircea_popescu: holy shit. this is almost as good as the music industry.

23:07:35 asciilifeform: letmeguess

23:07:37 asciilifeform: russian prison

23:07:42 mircea_popescu: mno. us.

23:07:46 asciilifeform: this is how people get the idea that giant sums move in the prison

23:07:49 asciilifeform: they don't

23:07:53 mircea_popescu: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/02/with-cigarettes-banned-in-most-prisons-gangs-shift-from-drugs-to-smokes.html#url=/articles/2013/06/02/with-cigarettes-banned-in-most-prisons-gangs-shift-from-drugs-to-smokes.html

23:07:54 ozbot: With Cigarettes Banned In Most Prisons, Gangs Shift From Drugs To Smokes - The Daily Beast

23:07:56 asciilifeform: the prices are merely reflective of scarcity.

23:08:04 asciilifeform: like washington housing.

23:08:58 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: one day (tm) we rocket straight out of this pisshole, never look back.

23:09:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they do, to the same degree huge sums move in us banking system.

23:09:08 mircea_popescu: "hgere's a book of stamps worth 3 trn"

23:09:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30656 @ 0.00095738 = 29.3494 BTC [+] {2}

23:09:14 asciilifeform: lol

23:09:16 BingoBoingo: Still the other medium of exchange (stamps) have a fixed value outside the prison

23:09:25 mircea_popescu: "here's a debentures package in exchange, worth 5 trn. good deal for you"

23:09:32 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yes. fixed to 0.

23:09:37 mircea_popescu: who the fuck uses stamps.

23:09:49 BingoBoingo: I do rather frequently.

23:09:56 asciilifeform: can't recall the last time using stamp

23:10:00 mircea_popescu: you're a weirdo.

23:10:08 asciilifeform: aye

23:10:16 BingoBoingo: I've also on occasion GPG signed snail mail

23:10:27 mircea_popescu: last time i used stamps i was making lolpasties for tits.

23:10:34 asciilifeform: even mailing cheques, nowadays one generally uses bank feature that autoprints one and mails

23:11:48 benkay: asciilifeform: and yet i have to explain this to just about 1/3 clients.

23:11:55 benkay: granted, my clients are small and derpy with the technology.

23:12:21 BingoBoingo: Well most of the communication with the lawyer has been either in person or over the mail.

23:14:15 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: re: rocketing out of pesthole - http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Home_20Escape_20Vehicle

23:16:17 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Very interesting. I was actually thinking about maybe going cheap and just canoeing the mississippi and gulf coast to Mexico

23:17:08 asciilifeform: http://www.halfbakery.com/user/dsm

23:17:09 ozbot: dsm

23:17:17 asciilifeform: yours truly as bored schoolboy

23:17:18 mircea_popescu: !up alexsanjose

23:17:18 assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.

23:18:00 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Now I'm going to have to digest that entire site's text

23:18:12 asciilifeform: lul, don't, it's horrifying

23:19:08 BingoBoingo: horrifying text is the best

23:19:31 mircea_popescu: anyway. BingoBoingo how would you like to do some btc/usd arbitrage for me too ?

23:20:33 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I don't think I have the time to effectively do btc/usd artbitrage

23:20:48 mircea_popescu: it's basically just a scaled up version of the atc thing

23:22:20 mircea_popescu: alexsanjose you the reuters chick ?

23:22:23 BingoBoingo: Well, the outstanding student loan debts make holding any substantial USD impractical

23:22:34 mircea_popescu: i'd be holding it.

23:22:49 mircea_popescu: on this tiny romanian exchange Naphex's been trying to get into shape

23:22:57 mircea_popescu: currently the spread is wider than my fist.

23:23:59 mircea_popescu: (to speak you type in the bottom bar and hit enter)

23:23:59 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: can't be much volume tho?

23:24:08 mircea_popescu: fluffypony wouldn't be much, no.

23:24:09 BingoBoingo: I don't think I've ever worked to narrow a spread. I've tried to keep the ATC spread as wide as Hilary's ass.

23:24:15 mircea_popescu: lol

23:24:28 mircea_popescu: spreads narrow naturally.

23:24:53 BingoBoingo: I'll think on it.

23:25:07 mircea_popescu: anyway, my idea is, ima open an acct, give you 10 btc or w/e, you can trade around but not withdraw.

23:25:29 BingoBoingo: That might work.

23:25:44 mircea_popescu: course gotta see if the guy's amenable to it too, but otherwise should be win-win-win, he gets some activity, you get more trading experience, i get some gains or w/e.

23:26:28 fluffypony: I played around with arbitrage on BitX.co.za, crappy local exchange, as it generally sits ~5% above Bitstamp, but with a daily volume of ~10 BTC it ends up being a lot of work for maybe $50 in profit

23:29:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: If he's amenable to the thing I'll probably be inclined to try it as there's a bit more details nao. I'm going to drink on this idea and let tomorrow's hangover show the way.

23:30:00 benkay: how are you still getting hangovers, BingoBoingo

23:30:08 mircea_popescu: works. show up on some sort of romanian time tho, otherwise we'll be all thestringpullering this for a week :D

23:30:19 benkay: HO HO ZING

23:30:26 mircea_popescu: benkay liver transplant.

23:31:11 BingoBoingo: Oh, what did thestringpuller do recently?

23:31:34 benkay: constantly pinging myself and mod6 in -assets

23:31:40 BingoBoingo: Ah

23:31:56 benkay: leastaways, i assume that's what mircea_popescu 's on about

23:31:59 mircea_popescu: poor guy. we love you still thestringpuller, it's just cute is all.

23:32:19 BingoBoingo: benkay: I still get hangovers because I drink to win.

23:32:47 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: quitting is for losers

23:33:34 benkay: to be fair to thestringpuller mod6 and i've been unpredictably online lately

23:33:50 benkay: caught a message in the middle of marinading pork over the weekend, f'r instance.

23:34:02 benkay: "nuh-uh, buddy. busy cooking atm."

23:35:01 mircea_popescu: benkay i made epic bbq rib today.

23:35:14 BingoBoingo: Is there any other kind?

23:35:23 mircea_popescu: well there's lousy...

23:35:28 mircea_popescu: but i don;t make that.

23:36:21 BingoBoingo: Sometime this summer I want to try a standing beef rib roast on the kettle grill.

23:36:33 fluffypony: I had a braai (bbq) last night, also did ribs

23:36:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.53149999 BTC [+]

23:36:41 fluffypony: although I think I'm over pork ribs, going back to beef

23:36:42 dexX7: http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/humans/ << who is who? =D

23:36:59 mircea_popescu: this was open gas oven. not ideal, but i found a way to use the cast iron pan's handle to prop the door open just enough. gets it reasonably cool.

23:37:23 BingoBoingo: Interesting.

23:38:06 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: that's the way forward, I tend to burn my meat a lil' on an open flame, but in the Weber I can shove the coals to the side and let it cook at leisure

23:38:18 benkay: coal grilling?

23:38:23 benkay: take me back.,

23:38:25 fluffypony: wood oals

23:38:27 fluffypony: *coals

23:38:29 BingoBoingo: benkay: Well charcoal.

23:38:40 fluffypony: ^^

23:39:02 benkay: no i mean takes me back to middle school when i was learning to grill caveman style

23:39:09 BingoBoingo: Ah

23:39:11 benkay: these days all i want is a hot gas flowing by

23:39:20 fluffypony: gas doesn't give the meat the same flavour

23:39:42 benkay: ya well

23:39:53 BingoBoingo: I haven't seen many gas grills that can get hot enough for steaks.

23:39:53 fluffypony: plus a charcoal braai is a South African tradition, we even have a public holiday that has become Braai Day (nfi what the actual holiday is for any longer)

23:39:55 benkay: there are tradeoffs everywhere.

23:40:02 benkay: BingoBoingo: lolwut

23:40:24 benkay: hot enough for Maillard on the surface?

23:40:27 fluffypony: benkay: gas is awesome for breakfast, nothing like a good morning fry-up

23:41:00 BingoBoingo: benkay: Well hot enough for a proper sear.

23:41:02 fluffypony: I'm with BingoBoingo on this one - if you're going to sear a steak...

23:41:42 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude you nuts, gas burns at like 2k degrees

23:41:49 mircea_popescu: it's hot enough to work glass and forge steel.

23:42:13 *: fluffypony ponders a 2am leftover rib snack

23:42:20 fluffypony: crap is it that late

23:43:13 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: American gas grills typically top out around 600F at a cooking height above the burners. Because we suck. (problem can be remedied by using acetylene instead of propane

23:43:18 BingoBoingo: )

23:43:29 moiety: lol fluffypony i replied to that thread on btctalk.

23:43:46 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo europe uses nat gas. ch4 burns hot.

23:44:02 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 'Murica uses Propane

23:44:08 mircea_popescu: propane sucks.

23:44:11 BingoBoingo: On grils

23:44:11 mircea_popescu: it smells bad too

23:44:13 BingoBoingo: Yeah

23:44:20 mircea_popescu: i mean ppl say "gas is not the same flavour", but : propane stinks.

23:44:30 mircea_popescu: methane is inodorous.

23:44:42 benkay: oh

23:44:49 benkay: see i typically cook on grills wired into the natural gas

23:44:51 BingoBoingo: Inside gas is still CH4, but LPG in portable tanks is propane primarily

23:44:57 fluffypony: moiety: did you at least get a pink knitted jersey with the Bitcoin logo on it?

23:45:38 moiety: hello all

23:45:46 benkay: ey moiety

23:45:47 moiety: fluffypony: i didn't even go to the site

23:45:52 moiety: ooh benkay sans `

23:45:58 BingoBoingo: People out in the boonies use propane for household use if they lack infrastructure for real gas

23:46:06 BingoBoingo: hello moiety

23:46:42 moiety: mircea_popescu: re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-04-2014#634572 you mean like: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/china-canned-air-chen-guangbiao-chinese-millionaire_n_2574901.html ? :D

23:46:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00096232 = 21.171 BTC [+] {2}

23:47:05 moiety: hi BingoBoingo :D how's you?

23:47:14 BingoBoingo: Not bad

23:47:59 BingoBoingo: !up alexsanjose

23:47:59 assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.

23:52:46 BingoBoingo: Oh, rabite got voiced this morning?

23:52:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00096334 = 23.2165 BTC [+]

23:53:53 ThickAsThieves: "The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau told CNN that its approval of Palchohol was an error."

23:54:13 joecool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiabeNR_q0U ?

23:54:13 ozbot: Perri-Air - YouTube

23:55:46 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Have you read any of the paper work on the hows of it?

23:56:13 ThickAsThieves: i have not

23:56:49 ThickAsThieves: while i see no reason it shouldnt be legal, it's obviously gonna destroy some shit

23:57:45 ThickAsThieves: "5. How is it made? If we told you, we'd have to shoot you. We are in the process of patenting it and it is currently patent pending."

23:57:54 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: My objection to it as recreational consumer is that the carbohydrates are going to make shit too sweet.

23:58:33 ThickAsThieves: "Palcohol is gluten free."

23:58:36 ThickAsThieves: lol

23:58:48 BingoBoingo: Basically you disolve the alcohol into a mix of sugars and higher molecular weight carbohydrates.

23:59:20 BingoBoingo: And it seems by weight they can't even get that much alcohol into the stuff.