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Transcript for 23-01-2016, 1590 lines:

00:01:48 asciilifeform: polarbeard: care to give an example of how this was run ?

00:02:39 asciilifeform: let's say i want to press to the latest

00:02:41 polarbeard: you probably need to specify some paths, wot, patches and sigs

00:02:44 polarbeard: and that's it

00:02:52 polarbeard: sigs is what you call seals

00:03:11 polarbeard: you need the diff splitter, splitdiff

00:03:16 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> for any innocents : bingo is this activity where you get a bit of paper printed with numbers, there's a loudspeaker saying numbers, and you cross out the matches. << Aha, yes. It's like lottery as in person activity.

00:03:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381690 << nah, they're 2-3 tons at 5-10k a kg. a truck is 5-10 tons at maaaybe a few hundies a kg.

00:03:42 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:08:54; asciilifeform: about what a truck costs

00:04:00 asciilifeform: polarbeard: and i notice that this thing relies on grep

00:04:03 polarbeard: from the patchutils package

00:04:09 asciilifeform: ugh

00:04:16 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i dunno, it looks more like a job (and a shitty one at that) than entertainment to me.

00:04:21 polarbeard: right, you have to feed all the targets

00:04:26 mircea_popescu: :D

00:04:30 asciilifeform: polarbeard: this is neat, in the sense that an eiffel tower built from toothpicks is neat

00:04:34 polarbeard: that's why I said I don't know wether this will hit make's limits

00:04:47 polarbeard: I know :)

00:05:45 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Gotta consider the people wo were playing. "Big prison" is already pretty well engrained into their "living"

00:06:03 asciilifeform: i thought 'bingo' was largely played by children ?!

00:06:11 asciilifeform: and folks in insane asylums

00:06:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform definitely the best introduction i've seen to date, tho. beats http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1377854 by quite the margin.

00:06:11 assbot: Logged on 19-01-2016 23:27:04; buZz: i am me

00:06:37 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mostly here played by the elderly

00:06:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i liked 'jinglebutt' introduction

00:06:42 mircea_popescu: tho i suppose some of the gentlemen may prefer swedes.

00:06:47 mircea_popescu: aha.

00:07:06 mircea_popescu: uh... which was that one ?

00:07:12 asciilifeform: !up polarbeard

00:07:23 mircea_popescu: polarbeard you can self-voice, say !up to assbot in private.

00:07:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was some chick, you quoted it as 'as the name implies, i am jinglebutt. now remove me from this list' or the like

00:07:49 mircea_popescu: o.O

00:07:59 mircea_popescu: actually, that one reporter wasn't bad, however long ago.

00:08:11 polarbeard: mircea_popescu: thanks for the tip

00:08:28 mircea_popescu: i guess ima make a top nao. brb.

00:22:55 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

00:23:01 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 383.64, vol: 14814.48883594 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 388.887, vol: 10333.26836 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 382.56, vol: 62542.28941267 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 352.0, vol: 12.8786204 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 386.2852, vol: 97365.99530000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 384.3099, vol: 519.12550084 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 389.786203978, vol: 69.32396777 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

00:23:02 BingoBoingo: ;;more

00:23:02 gribble: average: 384.957436949

00:23:15 deedbot-: [Qntra] NACDL Amicus: Silk Road Warrant Unconstitutional According To 4th Amendment - http://qntra.net/2016/01/nacdl-amicus-silk-road-warrant-unconstitutional-according-to-4th-amendment/

00:24:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178377 << oldies but goldies.

00:24:44 assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 22:00:59; ielo: mircea_popescu, i'm just sick of your shit you've independently claimed like 3 people i know are scammers and your life is literally gossiping on the internet

00:25:01 asciilifeform: who even was that

00:26:20 BingoBoingo: Prolly an Israeli Jew

00:26:36 BingoBoingo: Just judging by demographics

00:27:16 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178421 << l0lparticle from linked day in logz

00:27:16 assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 22:13:17; mircea_popescu: anyway, ascii_field, apparently the dean is asking some questions eh ?

00:27:23 asciilifeform: interesting how this came to nothing.

00:27:43 mircea_popescu: i don't even recall what that was ?

00:27:53 BingoBoingo: U Maryland

00:28:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was this, http://fraudsters.com/2015/on-the-elaine-shi-and-andrew-miller-scam-ring

00:28:02 assbot: On the Elaine Shi and Andrew Miller scam ring on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVkgK )

00:28:55 asciilifeform: https://cs.umd.edu/~amiller << graduated

00:28:58 assbot: Andrew Miller phd@umd ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVtkv )

00:29:02 asciilifeform: no signs of lowering into pederasty

00:29:27 pete_dushenski: except for "Currently on the job market"

00:29:31 asciilifeform: http://elaineshi.com << still employed

00:29:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVwg8 )

00:30:12 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: that is implied under 'graduated'

00:30:39 mircea_popescu: myeah. dey doubled down on stupid didn't dey.

00:30:49 asciilifeform: she's teaching at cornell now

00:30:58 asciilifeform: upgraded to junior nomenklatura, apparently.

00:31:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not THAT implied. most employers of uni derps are unis.

00:31:03 asciilifeform: crime - pays.

00:31:17 mircea_popescu: yeah, until it doesn't it keeps paying.

00:32:08 asciilifeform: my point is that it went down exactly how i knew it would - dean looked at the books and understood where the payola comes from, and did not ask further questions of anybody.

00:32:24 asciilifeform: nobody throws out $8M in nsf grantola

00:32:34 mircea_popescu: 8mn is actually lowish.

00:32:52 asciilifeform: quite enough to feed two derpatronicists and a dozen slave labourers

00:33:02 asciilifeform: and to leave plenty over for the common piggy

00:33:50 asciilifeform: https://www.cs.umd.edu/article/2014/02/elaine-shi-awarded-2014-sloan-research-fellowship << prize winner !!11111

00:33:53 assbot: Elaine Shi Awarded 2014 Sloan Research Fellowship | UMD Department of Computer Science ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSW1H1 )

00:34:08 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 8MN is par for feeding some classes of derp

00:35:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758493 << since i'm going through history.

00:35:06 assbot: Logged on 16-07-2014 21:20:07; gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: No one terribly interesting.

00:35:28 asciilifeform: as a former participant in the racket, i will say that 8m - even in ~today~'s watered-down usg - is a princely grant bag.

00:35:40 asciilifeform: quite enough to run a large lab for a year+.

00:37:34 asciilifeform: the other takeaway is that ~nsf~ specifically is a magical thing in that the dean had nothing whatsoever to worry about, even if the grant were for reprocessing babies into lollipops, he would never be answerable for it - washington ~signed~, aha

00:38:41 mircea_popescu: lol epic logs. "who are you ?" "princessnell sent me"

00:39:17 BingoBoingo: !up polarbeard

00:39:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2014#597433 << lol is this early danielpbarron ?

00:39:42 assbot: Logged on 01-04-2014 16:55:28; mircea_popescu: who are you ?! and why are you determined to feed my ignore list ?

00:39:43 asciilifeform: ;;google "ken sent me"

00:39:44 gribble: Leisure Suit Larry: Reloaded - Part 9 - Ken sent me - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M98S9omMfAo; Fouk - Ken sent me - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws0jnqNoGsg; Cosmic Space Jorma - Ken Sent Me - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6GvXtrdXL0

00:40:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2014#562094 << lmao.

00:40:58 assbot: Logged on 16-03-2014 18:47:15; mircea_popescu: that's maybe what are you doing. who are you ?

00:42:38 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2014#562097 << heh. dead links.

00:42:38 assbot: Logged on 16-03-2014 18:49:24; datz_: i run https://peercover.com and sponsor http://openxrptalk.com

00:44:19 pete_dushenski: ;;seen nubbins`

00:44:19 gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 weeks, 1 day, 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <nubbins`> <+mircea_popescu> in other news, chick on okcupid : "porque no me escribis en castellano << they say castellano in peru too, but if i'm not mistaken this is not universal in south america?

00:44:39 pete_dushenski: and then there was one canuckistani

00:44:40 asciilifeform: !s ;;seen nubbins`

00:44:41 assbot: 210 results for ';;seen nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%3B%3Bseen+nubbins%60

00:45:14 pete_dushenski: i guess there was the wikidood what was his name...

00:45:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-12-2015#1336882 << record not yet broken!111

00:45:15 assbot: Logged on 05-12-2015 14:33:39; gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 2 days, 12 hours, 34 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <nubbins`> autographs for only 5 tx fees

00:46:15 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: From what I understand nubsy occasionally has things to do like reveal laser fraud and print.

00:47:03 pete_dushenski: ;;seen mike_c

00:47:04 gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 35 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already

00:47:18 asciilifeform: ;;seen artifexd

00:47:18 mircea_popescu: he has a point dun he.

00:47:18 gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 39 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 30 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.

00:47:38 mircea_popescu: ;;seen fiat500

00:47:38 gribble: fiat500 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <fiat500> protein with a side of agony

00:47:44 mircea_popescu: ha-HA!

00:47:55 asciilifeform: ;;seen moiety

00:47:55 gribble: moiety was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 13 weeks, 6 days, 13 hours, and 4 seconds ago: <moiety> i have to go, it was nice to see yous

00:47:57 pete_dushenski: lol.

00:48:42 pete_dushenski: mike_c has br0ken previous record : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-01-2016#1366012

00:48:42 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:49:35; gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already

00:50:17 mod6: ;;seen vragnaroda

00:50:17 gribble: vragnaroda was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 years, 30 weeks, 4 days, 10 hours, 29 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <vragnaroda> I'm American.

00:51:11 mircea_popescu: sheesh

00:51:20 mod6: ikr?

00:51:33 mircea_popescu: and it's still here, you know, four years later.

00:51:45 mircea_popescu: what the fuck lasts this long on the internet.

00:52:04 mod6: not much

00:52:08 mircea_popescu: back then digg > reddit even.

00:52:52 polarbeard: mircea_popescu: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/server_retired_after_18_years_and_ten_months_beat_that_readers/

00:52:53 assbot: Server retired after 18 years and ten months – beat that, readers! • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1ORItnW )

00:53:16 mircea_popescu: nb.

00:53:54 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993 << lotta that dumb shit on okcupid too. "oh how strange, she has 20 pics in the same exact angle"

00:53:55 assbot: Ruston's Guide to Spotting and Avoiding Fatfishing | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kvm8ay )

00:54:17 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: OKC is where a lot of fatfishing happens

00:56:11 pete_dushenski: btc-e trading higher than bistamp, which is itself trading higher than bitfinex... don't think i've ever seen that before.

00:56:40 pete_dushenski: must be a blue moon

00:57:19 mircea_popescu: or a red one.

00:57:54 pete_dushenski: soviet moon is best moon

00:58:18 shinohai: o7

00:58:21 pete_dushenski: from the mines : "Make no mistake. Shinola watches are battery-powered, quartz movement watches. They’re not automatics. One could question whether or not a battery-powered watch justifies a $550-$1,000+ price. However, the quartz movements are made by their Swiss partners, Ronda AG, and then are sent to the 30,000 square foot Detroit factory where Shinola created dozens of jobs for Americans. Each Shinola watchmak

00:58:21 pete_dushenski: ndergoes intense, strict training. None of them had any watchmaker experience before. In short, not only did Shinola create jobs, they gave Detroit natives the training to do those jobs. That’s a pretty fucking noble cause, if you ask me."

00:59:06 pete_dushenski: who wouldn't want an over-priced timepiece manufactured by hobos ? not ~real~ americans !!!1

00:59:33 mircea_popescu: uh. weren't q&q quartz timepieces like 10-20 bux since forever ?

00:59:36 mircea_popescu: what 500.

00:59:51 pete_dushenski: "made in detroit" (tm) (r)

01:00:24 pete_dushenski: the only major city with rents under $1/sqm lend untold credulity and providence

01:01:57 mircea_popescu: "As for having fat pets, this shows that they have no concept of portion control. An animal will eat anything you put in front of it." << this is nonsense.

01:02:01 mircea_popescu: what is the animal, a pig ?

01:02:29 deedbot-: [fraudsters] The top 3 best self-introductions in #bitcoin-assets to date - http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-top-3-best-self-introductions-in-bitcoin-assets-to-date/

01:08:35 polarbeard: what an honour

01:09:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381724 << if anyone in afghanistan etc were not fully employed in countig rocks and fucking goats thus managing to find their way here, i'd definitely finance a project to fly a quad to a drone and use the old komet trick

01:09:02 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:19:28; asciilifeform: quite odd that nobody has yet (afaik) demonstrated this.

01:09:25 mircea_popescu: (photodiode interrupted electic firiing, fly under enemy, boom)

01:10:36 BingoBoingo: !up polarbeard

01:10:47 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: You know you can voice yourself now?

01:11:07 polarbeard: yes, thanks

01:14:05 BingoBoingo: !help

01:14:05 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

01:14:11 BingoBoingo: ^instructions there

01:14:25 BingoBoingo: !down polarbeard !up thyself

01:20:55 pete_dushenski: off to the cinema. g'nite !

01:21:11 mircea_popescu: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*u0cOcOtNDobvT8ZsWzfzXA.png << this is actually pretty good.

01:21:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SacMY1 )

01:26:20 ben_vulpes: woof

01:26:56 ben_vulpes: i think that i hate managing projects.

01:27:08 ben_vulpes: in bezzleland at least.

01:27:23 ben_vulpes: glorified secretarial work.

01:27:48 mircea_popescu: ever seen glengarry glenn ross ?

01:28:52 mircea_popescu: "What are you, you're a secretary, John. Fuck you. That's my message for you."

01:29:55 ben_vulpes: i have.

01:30:45 ben_vulpes: the salesmen are also entirely interchangeable.

01:31:04 ben_vulpes: except for the ones who are not and who don't want anything to do with my asbestos gloves.

01:32:00 mircea_popescu: quite.

01:32:18 mircea_popescu: then again john was quite a miserable manager.

01:32:46 mircea_popescu: all of the defense (you know, picking up when people steal toilet paper), none of the offense, none of the good stuff, like making the team not suck dicks.

01:34:48 ben_vulpes: i don't see the problem with embezzling a reasonable amount of toilet paper. it's a valid business expense, and the staff don't get taxed for it.

01:36:45 mircea_popescu: well, it's your fucking toilet paper and what sort of people are these.

01:37:24 ben_vulpes: hey man i'm just trying to get cash in the kids pockets while paying as little taxes on it as possible

01:37:29 ben_vulpes: tax*

01:38:03 mircea_popescu: sounds ever more like a co-op :D

01:38:30 ben_vulpes: heh

01:38:33 ben_vulpes: funny you should mention that

01:38:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49654 @ 0.00055672 = 27.6434 BTC [-] {2}

01:38:44 ben_vulpes: the insane fucking rules around ESOPs. i tell you.

01:39:33 ben_vulpes: wall street and congress got a hold of the notion and now there are all sorts of arcane bezzle-quirements like "must get valued by a state-blessed valutron", "must be investment grade paper" etc.

01:40:23 mircea_popescu: the problem here, and it's a fundamental problem, is that the derps that get employed aren't usually investor grade.

01:40:34 ben_vulpes: ofc not

01:40:55 mircea_popescu: they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons

01:40:57 ben_vulpes: i had to explain how buy-and-hold of non-dividend-paying-stocks the other day wasn't forgoing compounding.

01:41:13 mircea_popescu: the result is that they have to make an endless array of rules to approximate "not entirely fucktarded teen".

01:41:31 ben_vulpes: fucktarded teen still gets hoodwinked with worthless paper regularly.

01:41:40 mircea_popescu: they perceive they gotta try.

01:42:14 mircea_popescu: the only correct solution is to pay in stock only. you do get alf moaning about his sad fate as an owner of his own fate,

01:42:24 mircea_popescu: but the alternative is drinking straight crazy from a toilet bowl.

01:42:25 ben_vulpes: and as a result, my equitizing the staff is miserably difficult.

01:42:49 mircea_popescu: imo you're trying to make a copper-iron thermostable alloy.

01:42:51 mircea_popescu: desist.

01:43:28 ben_vulpes: explain the parallel in a little more detail?

01:44:16 mircea_popescu: there is absolutely no reason people who make 30 an hour should own stock ; and if they did it certainly shouldn't be yours.

01:45:30 mircea_popescu: their needs (represented by copper in this diagram) and the realities of owning stock in a small venture (represented by iron in same) have very different reactions to a change in financial context (represented as temperature)

01:45:52 mircea_popescu: you're trying to meld two things together that will never, ever stay put as temperature varies.

01:46:07 mircea_popescu: even if through whatever arcana you get it "good enough" for the current context you happen to inhabit, such as your room.

01:47:34 ben_vulpes: i just had the weirdest experience

01:47:43 mircea_popescu: whassat

01:47:49 ben_vulpes: i realized that the shartup bezzletron actually got this right

01:47:53 mircea_popescu: it did.

01:48:04 mircea_popescu: well, better than throwing darts anyway.

01:48:48 ben_vulpes: anyways, thanks for the insight.

01:49:09 mircea_popescu: hey, they don't pay me $infinity + bonuses + golden dirigibles for nothing.

01:49:58 ben_vulpes: lol golden dirigible

01:50:26 ben_vulpes: anyways this place is amazing

01:50:26 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

01:50:28 mircea_popescu: hey, i started low on the dirigible scale.

01:50:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28650 @ 0.00055705 = 15.9595 BTC [+]

01:51:01 ben_vulpes: years of slaving for nuggets of insight once or thrice a quarter

01:51:15 ben_vulpes: i wonder what alf gets out of it, so competent as he is.

01:51:19 ben_vulpes: rubs the wrath itch?

01:51:31 mircea_popescu: yes but see, you get them as you need 'em. lyf.

01:52:03 ben_vulpes: life would be more like you don't get them when you need them.

01:56:11 ben_vulpes: i am now confronted with the difficult question of what the fuck i'm doing even owning my own stock.

01:56:27 mircea_popescu: now you are truly welcome.

01:57:53 ben_vulpes: relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?

01:58:10 ben_vulpes: clearly, there's no 'worthy' but 'demands'.

02:03:27 asciilifeform: brunel was in the up elevator

02:03:48 ben_vulpes: what is this 'up elevator'

02:03:49 asciilifeform: as was, e.g., tesla

02:03:58 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: living in a rising, rather than falling, empire

02:04:20 ben_vulpes: ah

02:04:27 ben_vulpes: well that's novel and depressing

02:04:38 asciilifeform: rewards slightly different sorts of folk

02:06:44 *: asciilifeform reads thread, and falls down, srsly, ben_vulpes pays his monkeyz stock ?

02:06:56 asciilifeform: why?!

02:07:09 ben_vulpes: lol you didn't read the thread didja

02:07:25 ben_vulpes: toilet paper, and i ain't talkin equity!

02:07:29 asciilifeform: something about tax dodges, aha

02:07:45 asciilifeform: 'clever was the turkey, but ended in the soup anyway'

02:07:52 asciilifeform: (tm) (r)

02:08:07 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381525 << same exact story here. californians and it only happens once per year.

02:08:07 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 20:50:17; BingoBoingo: We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily

02:08:11 ben_vulpes: well it doesn't actually work, asciilifeform

02:08:38 ben_vulpes: apparently i'm so scary i'm the only one taking the wine^H^H^H^Htoilet paper home

02:09:22 asciilifeform: oh and you're not running a proper sov-collapse shop until the workers have to bring own shitpaper

02:09:54 ben_vulpes: dude heaven forfend

02:10:21 ben_vulpes: i can see it though

02:11:36 asciilifeform: there are tales of truck stops in finland being picked clean, early '90s, even of fixtures like mirrors and toilet paper ~holders~, for a while. then they were re-equipped sov-style to have nothing worth taking

02:12:27 ben_vulpes: heh

02:12:30 asciilifeform: in a sufficiently intense collapse one might expect the toilets themselves to disappear, eventually

02:12:40 ben_vulpes: good old anemic hand dryers

02:12:48 ben_vulpes: "wipe your hands on your pants, plebe"

02:12:55 ben_vulpes: it's good for the envirowhatever

02:13:05 ben_vulpes: (tr) (m)

02:14:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382055 << you kill the queen of the hive and eat the royal jelly. this gives you five extra appendages, with which to kill other pretenders, and +5 vorpal sword of virility, and a +3 willpower.

02:14:29 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:57:53; ben_vulpes: relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?

02:14:49 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381924 << yes and I'm glad I had the sense to stfu after that line

02:14:49 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 00:39:42; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2014#597433 << lol is this early danielpbarron ?

02:15:27 ben_vulpes: wow

02:15:29 ben_vulpes: time flies

02:16:51 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382021 << around here, there is no shortage of 500k/y,50y.o. mortgaged to the hilt, who would die ~faster than i would~ if income cut to 0

02:16:51 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:40:55; mircea_popescu: they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons

02:17:21 asciilifeform: a 500k/y chump is just a slightly higher-powered chump

02:17:41 asciilifeform: and by no automagic means 'investor-grade' humanoid.

02:18:30 asciilifeform: he ~could~ put the 500 in his pocket instead of mortgaging his anal virginity to a 10m cardboard 'house'.

02:19:01 asciilifeform: BUT these folks are typically 'bred to be eaten', heavily selected in the first place for the kind of behaviours that preclude 500k-in-pocket.

02:19:10 asciilifeform: at least here in the reservation, this is so.

02:20:32 asciilifeform: also

02:20:58 asciilifeform: also i am quite amused thinking about how ben_vulpes quasi-offered me work in a shop where the toilet paper is supposed to be an appealing perk

02:21:17 ben_vulpes: again with the not reading the threads omg!

02:21:30 asciilifeform: what did i miss now.

02:22:08 ben_vulpes: 'tis in the logs.

02:22:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382067 << do i misinterpret this ?

02:22:44 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:07:25; ben_vulpes: toilet paper, and i ain't talkin equity!

02:23:08 ben_vulpes: yes. that's a joke about stock in startups.

02:23:28 asciilifeform: ok so you ~were~ speaking of stock.

02:23:36 ben_vulpes: i was talking about several things!

02:24:18 asciilifeform: re: paying non-investorgrade folks (as in, people who need to ~work to eat~) in stock, do you know the soviet voucher story ?

02:24:32 ben_vulpes: no, go on

02:24:42 asciilifeform: !s privatization

02:24:43 assbot: 12 results for 'privatization' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=privatization

02:25:27 asciilifeform: de-sovietized affairs of all kinds, from oil&gas to factories, etc. were turned into stock, 'vouchers', parcelled out among the peeeeeple

02:25:40 asciilifeform: and pretty much all ended up sold for nanopennies

02:25:48 asciilifeform: so that folks could eat a little in the hungry '90s

02:25:50 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381688 << 'tis just a step on the road to the obvious solution of entirely disposable versions of all the above

02:25:50 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:57; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: actually these are cheap, esp. in that when they explode, nobody's widow gets a pension

02:26:34 asciilifeform: ... ditto the flats, which were now owned by the residents, making 'insta-millionaires'

02:26:56 asciilifeform: but somehow most ended up bought up by folks who didn't have to worry about eatin'

02:27:04 asciilifeform: and now the rest, pay them rent.

02:27:13 asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise

02:27:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-05-2014#654954 << see also.

02:27:25 assbot: Logged on 02-05-2014 03:15:33; asciilifeform: basic course on russian privatization. 'your formerly state-issued flat is now yours. you are a millionaire!' - 'neato. but my salary hasn't been paid in a year. gotta buy something to eat. what does dinner cost?' - 'half a million.'

02:27:57 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381723 << which is mind-boggling given the thing has a what turbofan?

02:27:57 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:19:18; asciilifeform: incidentally 'predator' is a very slow machine, a toy chopper could quite likely catch up with it

02:28:30 asciilifeform: thing is also large and draggy

02:28:34 ben_vulpes: we have yet to arrive at state-issued flats for all but the most deeeeeserving of poor.

02:28:53 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: japanese for-placement-only netdrones could probably snag one

02:29:16 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and not actually similar, even where exist. american 'sec 8' leprosoria are not in any sense whatsoever owned by the inhabitants

02:29:36 asciilifeform: whereas sov flat inhabitant could only be dislodged by death or prison term

02:29:52 asciilifeform: a much stronger ownership than ANYBODY in usa has of ANY real estate

02:30:34 ben_vulpes: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/90d9a921f084ed4ae942#file-buildgen-L30 << enough with the aligned shits

02:30:36 assbot: Makefile · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1K1WJKy )

02:30:48 ben_vulpes: you can smell the users of fashionable editors a mile away

02:30:57 ben_vulpes: i'd wager this one uses Atom

02:31:04 ben_vulpes: or Sublime Dicks

02:31:12 asciilifeform: bawawhat

02:31:24 asciilifeform: i thought 'atom' was a www syndicatron thing

02:32:08 asciilifeform: sublime dicks, on the other hand, is mega-popular for some reason, colleagues had it and i lullzed seeing the nag popup interrupt their session

02:32:22 ben_vulpes: some "we're going to revolutionize editing text by pretending emacs was never a thing"

02:32:34 ben_vulpes: lol over there too?

02:32:42 ben_vulpes: i routinely mock users who have the escape wired into their brains

02:32:43 asciilifeform: emacs is a thick enough, barbed enough broomstick, that this is not hard to pull off

02:32:56 ben_vulpes: "what, can't afford 10 dollars for your text editor?"

02:33:06 ben_vulpes: (or two man-years, yes)

02:33:27 asciilifeform: doubly lulzy when you're all pro re folks who 'ida' all day long

02:33:33 asciilifeform: and too lazy to bust the idiot nagware

02:33:49 ben_vulpes: the mind, it doth boggle.

02:34:05 polarbeard: lol, sublime

02:34:17 polarbeard: I use the only and true editor

02:34:28 asciilifeform: 'ed' ?

02:34:33 ben_vulpes: nano!

02:34:36 polarbeard: notepad.exe

02:34:39 ben_vulpes: editor of the dirigible

02:34:53 asciilifeform: pair'o'wirez+teeth

02:35:07 ben_vulpes: electron beam and a good set of sights

02:35:10 polarbeard: aggresive looks to the keyboard

02:35:35 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381809 << what? no.

02:35:35 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:52:58; polarbeard: after verifying, patches are split into hunks

02:36:13 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381817 << what? what?!

02:36:13 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 23:55:19; polarbeard: there is no v

02:36:40 polarbeard: again, hunks = intermediate state

02:36:54 ben_vulpes: why.

02:37:06 polarbeard: the script is 300 lines, not hard to review

02:37:17 polarbeard: again, experiments, do not use

02:37:21 ben_vulpes: if so easy to review, similarly easy to explain.

02:37:42 polarbeard: ask

02:37:44 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381849 << more dependencies, and again i ask /why/

02:37:44 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 00:03:11; polarbeard: you need the diff splitter, splitdiff

02:37:47 ben_vulpes: why?

02:38:02 polarbeard: make is a build tool, it can build the press

02:38:03 asciilifeform: i read the whole thing, still can't figure out the 'why'

02:38:22 polarbeard: why implementing toposort for the nth time

02:38:42 ben_vulpes: why split the patches, polarbeard, quit dodging the question.

02:38:49 polarbeard: linear dependencies

02:38:52 asciilifeform: wait till polarbeard finds out what ~else~ we intend to implement for the n+1th time

02:39:21 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381913 << and that's eating the capital of all sins

02:39:21 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 00:33:02; asciilifeform: and to leave plenty over for the common piggy

02:39:38 ben_vulpes: polarbeard: should reimplementing toposort be impossibly painful for you...

02:39:54 polarbeard: lol, k

02:40:07 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: folks who have enough capital to eat the drawn dividends, eat that, and never eat capital. the rest of us, eat whatever falls into the hopper

02:40:23 asciilifeform: see the su privatization thread again, if this does not make sense.

02:40:24 ben_vulpes: polarbeard: look at my contribution history. it is very nearly 100% reimplementations of that which asciilifeform or mod6 or trinque have written first.

02:40:39 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i care not why whoever sins however.

02:41:48 ben_vulpes: whomever?

02:42:00 *: ben_vulpes is the undereducated american today as every day

02:42:16 asciilifeform: i can't speak for ben_vulpes, but the idea that folks who what they do for some explicable reason, rather than because of daemonic possession, was - imho - an advance.

02:42:40 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: in reference to?

02:42:56 asciilifeform: in re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382183

02:42:56 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:40:39; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i care not why whoever sins however.

02:42:57 ben_vulpes: oh, whichever sins?

02:43:18 ben_vulpes: this is like me giving a shit about what gavin and company do and derp about on reddit.

02:43:27 asciilifeform: the islamic world, for instance, never moved beyond this, and it shows

02:43:37 asciilifeform: 'electron moves because allah willed so'

02:44:19 ben_vulpes: the dependency chain of "well i work for satan because i got this useless phd that i got because i had a masters i didn't know what to do with because i got a bachelors that i similarly didn't understand the purpose of because i was told to go to college and" it never fucking ends and i don't really give a shit about the root cause for whatever retardation.

02:44:34 ben_vulpes: and no this is not "electron" this is why did isaac fuck ahmeds goat

02:45:25 ben_vulpes: i literally do not care and the spending of time figuring out why the derps do what they do is best left as an exercise to good men like mister backtick who actually enjoy hanging out on bitcointalk.org all day

02:45:54 ben_vulpes: and for the umpteenth time polarbeard /why/ split the damn patches and introduce a million new dependencies?

02:46:17 polarbeard: what dependencies?

02:46:19 ben_vulpes: "i didn't know any better" is, for the record, an entirely acceptable response.

02:46:22 ben_vulpes: diffsplit

02:46:48 polarbeard: *splitdiff

02:47:04 polarbeard: it's a neat tool

02:47:27 ben_vulpes: but more importantly the patches

02:47:29 polarbeard: I aliased it to 'spliff'

02:47:31 ben_vulpes: why won't you answer that one

02:47:55 polarbeard: linear dependencies, easier to handle

02:48:24 polarbeard: intermediate state is all about optimization

02:48:28 ben_vulpes: violates principles of v, though.

02:48:35 ben_vulpes: this is 'yagni' optimization.

02:48:36 polarbeard: you didn't read the script

02:48:45 ben_vulpes: i have to admit, my eyes glazed over.

02:49:30 ben_vulpes: i saw some turds, asked some questions, am not entirely thrilled with answers.

02:50:01 *: ben_vulpes has now filed reports with whip-crackers, can go home to die in sweet embrace, will be off shortly

02:52:18 ben_vulpes: anyways, interesting thing, polarbeard, perhaps i shall test it some day along side the tools written by people i trust like mod6 and trinque and asciilifeform.

02:52:49 ben_vulpes: in the meantime, try to understand why we use 'v', and why your failure to do so has lead me to stomp on the ground like a petulant child.

02:52:55 ben_vulpes: led*

02:58:14 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: apparently fella wanted to reimplement v in gnumake (as i once considered doing) but made some peculiar design decisions along the way

02:58:26 asciilifeform: (no, you don't ~have~ to split the patches into patchons, to do this)

02:58:48 asciilifeform: also it appears that his version requires you to manually munge it every time a new patch is added

02:58:52 polarbeard: I would have to implement a hash table in bash

02:58:54 polarbeard: meh

02:59:14 polarbeard: to keep track of multiple parents

02:59:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00055893 = 45.2454 BTC [+] {3}

03:00:00 asciilifeform: which is how i ended up ~not~ doing it in gnumake

03:00:05 polarbeard: that's right, I shouldn't have released it this early anyway

03:00:14 polarbeard: just wanted to get some love

03:00:38 asciilifeform: but overall, dependency on ~more~ unix tools is a bad thing, and dependency on ~more complicated~ and less-likely-to-be-reimplemented-by-wot-folk-soon tools, likewise

03:01:13 asciilifeform: polarbeard: why not try your hand at, say, a tx debugger? sorely needed item

03:01:26 polarbeard: what do you want from a tx debugger

03:01:35 polarbeard: I wanted to instrumentalize trb a bit, btw

03:01:55 polarbeard: a tx debugger sort-of-fits in my plans

03:02:42 polarbeard: feed me :3

03:18:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48400 @ 0.00055818 = 27.0159 BTC [-] {3}

03:24:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382057 << who's brunel ?!

03:24:11 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:03:27; asciilifeform: brunel was in the up elevator

03:24:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382056 << i have nfi. i think it's a lot of "how does one get a gf". not being worthy, per se. not demanding $randomfemale submit, per se. not that far off, either.

03:24:53 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:58:10; ben_vulpes: clearly, there's no 'worthy' but 'demands'.

03:25:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382062 << but it does make a lot of difference. a rising tide lifts all boats, there was no admiral nelson of the mughal empire. certainly not at that date.

03:25:47 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:04:27; ben_vulpes: well that's novel and depressing

03:28:04 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382077 << it happened.

03:28:04 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:10:21; ben_vulpes: i can see it though

03:32:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382094 << you deeply misunderstand what "investor grade" means in this context. the point is that he is RARE. you understand this ? the fundamental property of capital control in any functioning society without exception possible is that it must be concentrated.

03:32:24 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:17:41; asciilifeform: and by no automagic means 'investor-grade' humanoid.

03:32:44 mircea_popescu: so, if that guy fucks up, as no doubt he will, his distress is merely amusing from a societal pov. and perhaps instructive., but mostly amusing.

03:32:49 mircea_popescu: and "you only have yourself to blame".

03:33:11 mircea_popescu: when plebs "own stock", the problem becomes unsolvable, because the ready answer is, "i can't blame myself, for i'm nothing - so i'll just blame the gods"

03:33:17 mircea_popescu: you can't blame the gods and live to see the morn.

03:34:42 BingoBoingo: for alf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZXFI7GU8AAo4jj.jpg

03:34:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pc6m9Y )

03:35:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382106 "and the moon changes ever as his mind!"

03:35:54 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:23:28; asciilifeform: ok so you ~were~ speaking of stock.

03:38:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382120 << there's no other way out of the idiocy of equality.

03:38:31 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:27:13; asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise

03:38:59 mircea_popescu: two step process : a) make everyone ACTUALLY carry the burden of being the lord he was seeing himself as and b) allow the scum to shirk away.

03:39:30 mircea_popescu: then they'll rant and rave about "dupa ce i-a cheltuit vor merita sa devina muncitori ! Nu mai au nici o scuza ca au devenit saraci!"

03:40:38 mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.

03:41:20 mircea_popescu: this is the cornerstone of any possible sociology.

03:42:02 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382234 << isambard kingdom brunel. quite possibly greatest engineer of all time - built first modern bridges, world's largest ships of his century, for britain

03:42:02 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:24:11; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382057 << who's brunel ?!

03:42:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 236958 @ 0.00055614 = 131.7818 BTC [-] {6}

03:43:25 danielpbarron: ;;later tell mod6 i think your twatter bot died again

03:43:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:43:37 danielpbarron: i like to retweet those greaterthan 100 btc trades

03:43:50 mircea_popescu: oh oh

03:45:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382257 << this'd be rather like a pirate proposing that piracy is the only possible structure. if it were, what would there be for him to plunder ?

03:45:24 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:41:20; mircea_popescu: this is the cornerstone of any possible sociology.

03:45:31 asciilifeform: su existed.

03:45:38 asciilifeform: for the privatizatory to carve up

03:45:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prison term didn't dislodge. people came back to their own flats.

03:45:46 mircea_popescu: prison term FOR WHOLE FAMILY

03:45:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not if 'sentenced to 100th km'

03:46:07 mircea_popescu: even those got rescinded.

03:46:18 asciilifeform: on occasion, yes

03:46:40 mircea_popescu: right. but generally fambly kept the place, for mere conviction. it had to be political-wrathful to dislodge.

03:47:14 mircea_popescu: anyway - the exact same sort of people sifted to the top in the su as do anywhere else all the time. which is why yeltsin didn't survive and putin did.

03:48:37 asciilifeform: history is not, fortunately or otherwise, an endless loop of the same thing

03:48:59 mircea_popescu: pfff.

03:49:11 mircea_popescu: history is precisely an endless loop of the same thing. also, it has to be.

03:49:36 asciilifeform: it is the job of the inventor to not permit the endless loop.

03:49:43 asciilifeform: otherwise, yes, 5000 yrs of egypt.

03:49:56 mircea_popescu: the inventor is in this matter very closely related to the fashion designer.

03:50:05 mircea_popescu: they work hard at lipsticking the pig.

03:50:20 mircea_popescu: fortunately or otherwise, few live the millenia required for most of it to wear off.

03:51:06 asciilifeform: wake me up from my grave when, e.g., the gunpowder fashion, dies down.

03:51:11 mircea_popescu: also you'll be very hard pressed to argue that 5000 years of egypt were less than 5000 years hence.

03:51:26 mircea_popescu: (if for instance your aim is "population", mind that they started on a very narrow base. hard to beat.)

03:51:33 mod6: danielpbarron: thx for the heads up

03:52:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the egypt point is in re: the fact that the 3000th yr was quite like the 4000th and entirely possibly indistinguishable even to pro archaeologist

03:52:38 asciilifeform: perhaps a better example would've been the 10,000 yrs of australian abo.

03:52:53 mircea_popescu: you flatter yourself if you imagine there's more difference here than there, to an archeologist so distant in the future.

03:52:58 mircea_popescu: their shit keeps better than your shit does.

03:53:03 asciilifeform: no doubt.

03:53:46 asciilifeform: and the fossilized skeletons of the jurassic keep better still.

03:54:03 mircea_popescu: besides, the discussion in civilisational terms is besides the point. i guarantee that there was an alf in upper egypt bemoaning the vagaries of fate in the following exact terms :

03:54:40 mircea_popescu: "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind, to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them ?"

03:58:00 asciilifeform: quite possibly.

03:58:13 asciilifeform: but meanwhile somebody wiped arse with the papyrus.

03:58:17 asciilifeform: so we're stuck guessing.

03:58:18 mircea_popescu: so what did not repeat ? the shape of the woman's pants ?

03:58:21 mircea_popescu: who cares, it's the same ass.

03:59:09 asciilifeform: telegraphy ?

03:59:20 trinque: they used to have feet. so what?

03:59:20 mircea_popescu: telegraphy is not a thing.

03:59:39 asciilifeform: i know full well that mircea_popescu can arbitrarily redefine 'a thing' for there to be none.

04:00:21 mircea_popescu: do you miss the things that'll be discovered after you die, perhaps ? nobody cares. you happen to have seen telegraph. they saw the complex calculation of how to pi, and counted them very civilised for it. big whoop.

04:00:21 trinque: it's simply staring at the tool and thinking of it in isolation, rather than inside the human process in which it is used

04:00:31 asciilifeform: i can boot up fortran and set 1 to equal 2 also.

04:02:00 asciilifeform: and i suppose 'human processes' didn't change a lick since pharaonic egypt. aha, right.

04:02:05 mircea_popescu: quite.

04:02:15 mircea_popescu: there's exactly nothing to change. what'd you change ?

04:02:44 mircea_popescu: you still value what you lost more than what you gain by that loss. you still need stimuli to grow geometrically for subjective sensation to progress arithmetically.

04:03:02 asciilifeform: and my arse still takes up space in 3 dimensions, big whoop

04:03:05 mircea_popescu: your eyes' cablature still crosses behind your nose.

04:03:10 mircea_popescu: quite.

04:03:31 *: trinque notes the former SU guy's fixation on novelty

04:03:34 trinque: HA!

04:03:37 mircea_popescu: lol

04:03:42 *: asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu blasting off to mothership, tells chums 'this planet is a mega-snore, nothing ~ever~ changes there, let's get outtahere'

04:03:51 mircea_popescu: i don't mind.

04:04:17 mircea_popescu: i expect change like you expect nonsense. it comes out of young / silly people.

04:04:37 asciilifeform: and asteroids.

04:04:42 mircea_popescu: hardly.

04:05:19 mircea_popescu: you ever read that thing on the latin language ?

04:05:32 asciilifeform: 'the 80th latin' or what was it

04:05:35 asciilifeform: on fraudsters ?

04:05:36 mircea_popescu: yeah that.

04:05:39 asciilifeform: aha

04:05:46 asciilifeform: spiffy

04:06:00 mircea_popescu: so asteroid. what sort of novelty is that ?

04:06:53 mircea_popescu: the only news in the world is the history you didn't know and the measurements you took incorrectly.

04:07:10 mircea_popescu: not like photons went you know what ? this planck constant's boring, let's get a new one.

04:07:25 asciilifeform: i suppose if asteroid cleaned everybody's clock but the hydrothermal vent microbes, mircea_popescu would (from his dirigible!) still say, 'nothing novel, planet still crawling with whatevers, snore'

04:07:35 mircea_popescu: pretty much.

04:07:51 asciilifeform: i cannot say to this, but only take off my hat.

04:08:00 asciilifeform: *say anything

04:08:07 mircea_popescu: your earlier mistake was to suppose it's UP TO THEM.

04:08:21 mircea_popescu: it isn't up to them. some people dont' care. some do. they can't change this anymore than you can be a woman.

04:08:38 asciilifeform: wai wut? up to whom ?

04:08:39 mircea_popescu: now, it's true that miseducation can bring one up to think himself the other kind, whichg CAN be remedied.

04:08:50 mircea_popescu: but this is not unlike retarded mother bringing boy up in skirts.

04:09:06 mircea_popescu: eventually, if nothing was cut off, duck in the yard can no longer resist the call of ducks in the sky and takes off.

04:09:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382256

04:09:57 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:40:38; mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.

04:10:41 asciilifeform: this is also how we get http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381984

04:10:41 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 01:09:02; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381724 << if anyone in afghanistan etc were not fully employed in countig rocks and fucking goats thus managing to find their way here, i'd definitely finance a project to fly a quad to a drone and use the old komet trick

04:10:51 mircea_popescu: how would you know this ?

04:11:43 trinque: mircea_popescu │ eventually, if nothing was cut off, duck in the yard can no longer resist the call of ducks in the sky and takes off. << I'm going to go ahead and carve this one into the inside of my skull.

04:11:46 asciilifeform: in approx same way and to same degree as i know that electron exists.

04:11:54 asciilifeform: (no, i did not see one with naked eye.)

04:12:04 mircea_popescu: so what did you see to make this equivalence stick ?

04:12:22 mircea_popescu: for instance, charge of electron can be measured even from white noise of antenna.

04:12:27 asciilifeform: aha

04:12:42 mircea_popescu: and from molar mass / speed of reaction

04:12:44 asciilifeform: and the sheer mega-virility of pashtun can be likewise measured in 1,001 ways.

04:12:47 mircea_popescu: and from a number of other things.

04:12:53 mircea_popescu: but that's not your thesis.

04:13:23 asciilifeform: thesis is that 'the spartan speaks with his sword', untempered, results in goatfuckistan.

04:13:45 mircea_popescu: but no. your thesis is that "can only result in" goatfuckistan.

04:13:48 asciilifeform: as amply confirmed experimentally as anything i'd care to think of.

04:13:50 mircea_popescu: and this has nothing to stand on.

04:13:56 mircea_popescu: such as actual sparta ?

04:14:00 asciilifeform: has same to stand on as 'communism results in misery' etc

04:14:05 asciilifeform: the totality of the record.

04:14:06 mircea_popescu: not so.

04:15:34 asciilifeform: wake me up when the he-men create so much as a 'aa' battery.

04:15:34 mircea_popescu: there's another great difference, which may be easier to ford. socialism - sacrifice now for later paradise. this - is enjoyable. now. so much so i have not the least care if paradise or no paradise, or as the old man of the mountain said to allah,

04:15:37 mircea_popescu: "you can keep your virgins"

04:16:02 mircea_popescu: "i already ate".

04:17:48 asciilifeform: this being said, i wouldn't mind visiting limonov's (or mircea_popescu's for that matter) planet where folks practice bare-handed head-chopping from sunrise to noon, and measure neutron cross-sections, compose symphonies, after dinner

04:18:07 asciilifeform: followed by a good ol'fashioned chess-boxing match on weekend.

04:18:39 asciilifeform: i might get eaten as a snack on said planet, but it'd be almost worth it

04:18:52 BingoBoingo: !b 3

04:18:53 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/00A35XD.txt )

04:19:04 mircea_popescu: teh stubborn is strong with this one :D

04:20:30 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, not long ago had a brain-melting mindfuck, browsed maths crud on 'amazon' rec list, and noticed b00k, 'wait a sec, where did i see the author' - turns out, in email box

04:20:38 asciilifeform: (at wurk)

04:20:58 mircea_popescu: this is common neh ?

04:21:04 mircea_popescu: publish or shittish.

04:21:06 asciilifeform: personal first

04:21:46 mircea_popescu: eh, period in my life, i'd go to a party and inexorably leave with a half sack of books.

04:21:54 asciilifeform: interestingly, never happened when i actually was involved in academic racket

04:21:59 mircea_popescu: possibly a contributing factor in my distaste with the damned things.

04:22:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108150 @ 0.00055877 = 60.431 BTC [+] {3}

04:22:34 asciilifeform: my father had a world-class library, left it behind, today cannot stand the idea of amassing any such thing

04:22:35 trinque: why is the egyptian man's desire for food, a place to shit, and women to fuck different from mine? and if it isn't, whence this idea that my motivations are manifold (and advanced!), his few?

04:22:39 *: trinque brb

04:22:40 asciilifeform: i suspect that i will go the same

04:22:59 asciilifeform: the b00kz become associated with thing-that-anchors-you, i suspect

04:23:36 mircea_popescu: trinque well, an argument can be brought that yours are a lot more cleaved. like, you know, you can separately desire to lay with the woman as in cuddle, to lay with the woman as in fuck her brains out, to lay with the woman as to impregnate her and so on. whereas poor simple he, just lay with the woman.

04:23:56 mircea_popescu: now, whether a natural tongue or one surgically bifurcated is a change worth the mention... well... i suppose we must leave this up to the inventor.

04:24:19 mircea_popescu: lest the academic has to publish to justify his high station, an' the inventor must invent, hence so many new inventions all the time.

04:24:21 asciilifeform: i'd put the bifurcation as the whole of the man-monkey divide

04:24:34 mircea_popescu: you would.

04:24:44 asciilifeform: sure as hell, monkey has one fuck mode

04:24:51 mircea_popescu: this doesn't explain why young men are so undistinguishable from monkeys.

04:25:02 asciilifeform: not bifurcated far

04:25:11 mircea_popescu: "not along - across!"

04:25:15 asciilifeform: l0lz!

04:25:34 mircea_popescu: anyway. the difference between man and monkey is that man realises it's not actually worth the hassle.

04:25:43 mircea_popescu: ie, contemplation, not invention.

04:27:38 mircea_popescu: or to put it in more familiar terms, you know why the german goes bald arouind the corona, and the romanian arfound the forehead ?

04:27:48 asciilifeform: speaking of 'indistinguishable from monkeys', i observed that approx 1 train car in 5 has a loud, rambling nutter in it

04:28:20 asciilifeform: or at least a black fella singing loudly along to his headphones, without a care

04:28:36 asciilifeform: in a car otherwise full of dour folk making angry eyes

04:29:06 asciilifeform: so why the german goes bald ... ?

04:29:52 mircea_popescu: it's a visual joke. imagine me saying "hmm, i wonder how best to do this" whille scratching the top of my head

04:30:00 asciilifeform: ah!

04:30:02 mircea_popescu: and then "omfg what have i done" slapping forehead

04:30:25 mircea_popescu: contemplation. that's the divide. reflexivity. once the hardware started doing recursion, it split.

04:30:47 mircea_popescu: monkey-human divide cybernetically equivalent to non-recursive / recursive systems.

04:30:48 asciilifeform: aha, as pictured in hofstadter and minsky

04:30:56 mircea_popescu: mebbe ? i dun recall

04:31:04 asciilifeform: (the former wrote a whole mega-l0ltron re: same, 'i am a strange loop')

04:31:37 asciilifeform: and i suppose the egyptians must have known this

04:31:43 asciilifeform: or we'd have a... new idea

04:32:23 mircea_popescu: i'm sure we also have a new language!

04:32:28 mircea_popescu: such novel!

04:32:57 mircea_popescu: this conception of "novelty" is not so dissimilar to creationist's conception of darwinism. "he said my auntie's a dog!"

04:33:31 asciilifeform: i am picturing, one day measured value of plank's constant shifts, mircea_popescu goes back to sleep, says 'this shift was implicit all along, could not otherwise happen.' and will sleep until the very integers get up and walk around.

04:33:43 asciilifeform: this is not curable.

04:33:45 mircea_popescu: catch me doing that first, wouldja ?

04:33:59 mircea_popescu: so far the score's about a trillion to 0 the other way.

04:34:08 asciilifeform: aha, which is why lulzy

04:35:04 mircea_popescu: (actually the only sane model of physical cosmogony i know doth require shifting planck constant, if ever so shyly)

04:50:52 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

04:50:55 gribble: Current Blocks: 394567 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 568 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

04:52:40 mircea_popescu: (the problem, in the simplest terms, is that for h to be constant energy and spacetime must stay coupled. as such, it's impossible to have an original singularity (aka the big bang) seeing how everything solves neatly for a radius of 0, yielding a pretty field of 0's and a pile of nondetermined constants. conversely : in planck terms, the age of the universe is about 10^61, its radius about 10^61 and its energy about 1

04:52:40 mircea_popescu: 0^61, which is one hell of a coincidence that it should allign so right now! (same results can be expressed looking at the schwarzschild radius, too). )

05:05:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, re boxchess, ever showed you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIgwkvM9P1g ?

05:05:13 assbot: S02.Ep19.Mat - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1S0DtAh )

05:15:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382193 << i've yet to meet an electron who thought himself the ceo of the atom in question.

05:15:44 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 02:43:37; asciilifeform: 'electron moves because allah willed so'

05:20:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382232 << even the simple step of "add flag to trb to dump mempool into file each time a block is found" would be helpful atm.

05:20:23 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:02:42; polarbeard: feed me :3

05:22:01 mircea_popescu: (speaking of which - de-stupidification of the logging process would be a fucking blessing already. debug.log, srsly ? how about error.log mempool.log connect.log blocks.log for starters ?)

05:22:37 polarbeard: ^ agree, also hex logs

05:22:55 mircea_popescu: well, at least sanely tabulated.

05:23:23 mircea_popescu: in any case, then you could start it with -logs=emcb for all 4, or otherwise whatever combo thereof.

05:23:47 mircea_popescu: and for the love of christ implement either rolling or else a maxsize for files or something.

05:23:48 polarbeard: roger

05:24:05 polarbeard: no logrotate love?

05:24:09 mircea_popescu: or that. anything.

05:24:23 mircea_popescu: as it stands right now it's made by sheepherds.

05:25:03 polarbeard: it's a miracle it works

05:28:45 mircea_popescu: ah, and also - fucking timestamps on loglines omfg.

05:28:51 mircea_popescu: who did that!

05:29:14 mircea_popescu: "here's a logline. it's from fuck you o'clock. you're welcome."

05:29:43 ben_vulpes: fuck you o'clock lol

05:29:45 ben_vulpes: didn't phf do something with timestamps?

05:30:00 polarbeard: haha, 'just derive it from block height man'

05:30:31 mircea_popescu: it doesn't even dump that, which would be insane but at least it'd be insane.

05:30:36 ben_vulpes: polarbeard: good idea except that syncing reference implementations to the best of my knowledge don't know the current blockheight

05:31:26 polarbeard: /ironic off :)

05:32:23 polarbeard: I'd be happy with unix_time space hex_message sent_or_received_bit

05:32:24 ben_vulpes: the log history that you're missing is that blockheight is the only non usg-shared time.

05:33:08 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it could always curl deedbot.org for the latest.

05:33:29 ben_vulpes: yes let's compile libcurl into the reference implementation

05:33:34 mircea_popescu: after all... we have fucking json in there for reasons!

05:33:45 ben_vulpes: i'm sure polarbeard can get on that train

05:33:48 ben_vulpes: choo choo!

05:33:57 polarbeard: moar deps

05:34:01 ben_vulpes: #nodeps

05:34:02 mircea_popescu: lol aren't you a bucket fulla sunshine.

05:34:13 ben_vulpes: writing software fills a boy with hate.

05:34:38 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was the calculation you ran to determine the hashpower necessary to nail a block more or less every 24 hours?

05:35:02 mircea_popescu: #noderps #nodeps #nodes

05:35:20 ben_vulpes: #definitelynofuckinnode

05:35:23 mircea_popescu: that there's 6 blocks an hour and 24 hours in 24 hours ?

05:36:07 ben_vulpes: so one'd need ~ 1/144th of nethash?

05:36:19 mircea_popescu: well, yes, if one's tolerant with the variance

05:36:26 ben_vulpes: sure

05:36:26 mircea_popescu: as you divide, variance divides by less.

05:36:29 ben_vulpes: ;;nethash

05:36:30 gribble: 892506470.131

05:36:50 polarbeard: blocks per day = (my_share_rate / difficulty ) x 86400 / block_time

05:37:26 mircea_popescu: still, it comes to about 2MW's worth, more or less.

05:37:41 polarbeard: my_share_rate = hash rate / 2^32

05:38:32 mircea_popescu: polarbeard so basically myhash/nethash * 144.

05:38:49 ben_vulpes: someone missed dimensional analysis in school?

05:39:17 polarbeard: yep, but nethash is not exact I think?

05:39:28 mircea_popescu: neither is 144.

05:40:09 ben_vulpes: approximation is a nifty wunderwaffen.

05:40:26 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: schooled me rather hard on a good example around c3

05:40:29 mircea_popescu: i could hear you chuckling from here.

05:41:18 ben_vulpes: nethash is a joke is what it is

05:41:43 mircea_popescu: amusingly, the proper measure for nethash actually is PW or somesuch.

05:41:51 ben_vulpes: petawatts?

05:41:58 mircea_popescu: by the time it gets to 50%+1 all these approximations will be a lot less approximative

05:42:56 mircea_popescu: 50 TW, something like that.

05:43:08 mircea_popescu: 50 PW*

05:43:27 ben_vulpes: that has a lot of assumptions on mining chip efficiency boss

05:43:47 ben_vulpes: non?

05:44:30 mircea_popescu: nope. stable situation is where nethash is half the power generation.

05:44:42 mircea_popescu: chips irrespective, be they z80s or whatever startrek

05:44:48 ben_vulpes: but now.

05:44:51 ben_vulpes: not then.

05:45:00 mircea_popescu: universally.

05:46:14 mircea_popescu: "Hypothetically, according to Robert Engelman (Worldwatch institute), in order to prevent collapse, human civilization would have to stop increasing emissions within a decade regardless of the economy or population (2009)."

05:46:16 ben_vulpes: when you say that it comes to 2MW's worth.

05:46:21 mircea_popescu: ahh this shit's always such lulzyu lull.

05:46:28 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ah yes, yes.

05:46:42 mircea_popescu: currently we're only burning something to the tune of 30GW

05:46:47 mircea_popescu: which is scandalous, but hey.

05:47:26 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: 21co tried to make energy friendly chips, now they are trying to pawn them on users as "compooter"

05:47:51 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 3* 10^10 * 24 * 365

05:47:51 gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.

05:47:59 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 3* 10**10 * 24 * 365

05:48:00 gribble: 262800000000000

05:48:39 mircea_popescu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption << the esteemed republic is #13, after italy and above most of the world.

05:48:39 assbot: List of countries by electricity consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODTasQ )

05:49:14 mircea_popescu: it could light up almost 3000 chads.

05:50:18 thestringpuller: always imagined some d00d with access to nuclear power building a reactor on some island and using all the power for mining

05:52:57 ben_vulpes: did anyone ever run the numbers on what it would naively cost to lease the hashpower required to mint a block a day?

05:53:22 ben_vulpes: ;;help nethash

05:53:22 gribble: (nethash takes no arguments) -- Shows the current estimate for total network hash rate, in Ghps.

05:53:27 mircea_popescu: maybe 1% of the cost of a block, a day ?

05:53:39 mircea_popescu: of the subsidy of a block*

05:54:30 mircea_popescu: very simple mechanism to ACTUALLY improve your insurance : make a pool which pays 25.25 btc for the first block it finds each day.

05:54:55 mircea_popescu: this is a very neat way to solve an otherwise very thorny economical problem, and it will figure prominently in the future.

05:55:12 mircea_popescu: miners will not only optimize txn to include in blocks per se, but also "whose pool to mine nao at"

05:55:15 ben_vulpes: so what's the lowdown on the various pool payout maths?

05:55:24 mircea_popescu: what do you mean ?

05:55:42 ben_vulpes: every time i look into pool payout schemes my eyes glaze over and my fraud alert systems kick in.

05:55:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35017 @ 0.000556 = 19.4695 BTC [-] {2}

05:56:03 mircea_popescu: there's 3 or 4 principal ways to do it, 2 or 3 of which are very slight variation on the same theme.

05:56:14 mircea_popescu: it's a complex topic but no, they're not fraudulent.

05:56:26 mircea_popescu: arrived at through a lot of experimental as well as theoretical effort.

05:56:41 ben_vulpes: has anyone written this up anywhere?

05:56:48 mircea_popescu: well... miners.

05:56:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81283 @ 0.00055562 = 45.1625 BTC [-] {3}

05:56:58 mircea_popescu: worth your time to research it for your own sharpening, it's all pretty clever.

05:57:06 ben_vulpes: myeah

05:57:16 ben_vulpes: perhaps i'll do that while i install os x on this laptop for the umpteenth time

05:57:21 ben_vulpes: fucking operating systems

05:57:27 mircea_popescu: should take about a week.

05:57:39 mircea_popescu: depends how hard you push the "but why!" pedal.

05:57:41 mircea_popescu: lotta history.

05:59:56 ben_vulpes: man imma have to learn chinese at this rate

06:00:06 ben_vulpes: ideograms, man.

06:01:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35000 @ 0.00055963 = 19.5871 BTC [+] {2}

06:06:51 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and i'm going to guess most of this history is on bitcointalk.org

06:17:35 mats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5R9SZM2jaE

06:17:36 assbot: Ukrainian Armor (The Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1ODX1WS )

06:22:45 ben_vulpes: mats: badass

06:23:07 ben_vulpes: tis the age of the cmos

06:26:51 mats: the autoloader is cool

06:27:03 mats: for some reason the abrams doesn't have it

08:40:10 punkman: bon dia

08:40:14 punkman: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/23/a1/38/23a138d0e5eeb772813bb196e4c5f31c.jpg

08:40:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PoZ98p )

08:40:37 punkman: ^ dirigible

08:52:38 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382541 especially the earlier history, yes. possibly a good place to start: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14118;sa=showPosts;start=6160

08:52:38 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 06:06:51; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and i'm going to guess most of this history is on bitcointalk.org

08:52:39 assbot: Latest posts of: organofcorti ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pp0g8b )

08:54:10 punkman: ;;diffchange

08:54:12 gribble: Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | None % based on data since last change | 10.264 % based on data for last three days

08:55:15 punkman: https://megabigpower.com/buybackinfo

08:55:16 assbot: MegaBigPower :: Info ... ( http://bit.ly/1PKOWNY )

08:55:58 punkman: "pleased to announce our ASIC BuyBack Program"

08:57:12 punkman: https://hedgy.co/mining.html "Buy Bitcoin Direct from MegaBigPower at a Discount on a Future Date. Auctions Occur Once Per Month."

08:59:13 punkman: "It has been quite a while since any new hardware became available, it is reasonable to assume that most small miners will have recouped the majority of what they initially outlaid for the hardware, and are now disinclined to continue ‘supporting the network’, whilst incurring unnecessary cost. So: MegaBigPowers ‘land-grab’, to acquire all this idle hashing power seems like a smart move. As,

08:59:13 punkman: once the next price run up begins, there will be a frantic scrabble to re-power all the mothballed rigs lying around."

09:00:18 punkman: from http://blockchainstuff.eu/thoughts-on-the-current-state-of-bitcoin-mining/

09:00:19 assbot: Thoughts on the current state of Bitcoin mining | Blockchain Stuff ... ( http://bit.ly/1PKP93J )

09:01:17 punkman: "Bitfury recently announced their 28nm, 0.2 J/Gh offering (with some impressive efficiencies claimed) but have declined to inform us when they will be available, either-ways they do not sell to the public anymore. They also alluded to a 16nm chip with efficiencies as low as 0.02 due out later this year."

09:01:29 punkman: "KNC are in a similar holding pattern, awaiting production of their 16nm ‘Solar’ chip, with astonishing claims of 0.07 J/Gh,  They no longer sell to the public either."

09:03:04 kakobrekla: they sold until it was garbage, now that further decreasement in process size are hardly possible, they hold

09:03:04 punkman: oooh just noticed "March 2015"

09:05:14 kakobrekla: basically folks have been used as sort of catalyst for the reaction of them getting 16nm or so and are now no longer needed

09:06:29 punkman: hmm

09:09:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50750 @ 0.00055964 = 28.4017 BTC [+]

09:10:43 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382516 << perhaps i am up too late, but i cannot make heads nor tails of this

09:10:43 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:53:27; mircea_popescu: maybe 1% of the cost of a block, a day ?

09:14:49 punkman: ben_vulpes: 1% extra

09:18:06 punkman: https://github.com/nothings/stb/blob/master/docs/other_libs.md "single-file public-domain/open source C libraries with minimal dependencies"

09:18:07 assbot: stb/other_libs.md at master · nothings/stb · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pp2TXI )

09:20:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36700 @ 0.00055964 = 20.5388 BTC [+]

09:24:46 ben_vulpes: ah?

09:39:27 BingoBoingo: http://tweetnacl.cr.yp.to/software.html

10:54:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53000 @ 0.00055964 = 29.6609 BTC [+]

11:22:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51500 @ 0.00056057 = 28.8694 BTC [+] {3}

12:00:36 shinohai: Height 394621 \o/

12:01:07 *: shinohai pops cork on muscadine wine even though it is 7 a.m.

12:43:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00055961 = 17.236 BTC [-]

13:31:38 Azelphur: ;;rate RagnarDanneskjol -10 3 months of unpaid salary, will remove rating if payment ever arrives.

13:31:39 gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.

13:32:55 Azelphur: ;;rate RagnarDanneskjol -10 3 months of unpaid salary, will remove rating if payment ever arrives.

13:32:57 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user RagnarDanneskjol has been recorded.

13:33:01 *: Azelphur sighs

13:38:26 Azelphur: Was really unsure whether to place that one (badmouthing former employer and all) but figured he'll probably look here for someone to replace me, and other people might not be so financially secure as I am.

13:43:28 punkman: told me he needed some contract work 3 months ago, but didn't follow through

13:44:29 punkman: ;;seen RagnarDanneskjol

13:44:31 gribble: RagnarDanneskjol was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 44 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <RagnarDanneskjol> trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. if anyone here's partial to the name I can pass it over. Wow that xm42

13:45:03 Azelphur: punkman, yea for me I did the work, he just keeps saying he will pay and continues to delay / make excuses

13:45:56 Azelphur: he said he;

13:46:49 Azelphur: whoops, he said he'd pay me an installment of ?1000ish on Monday, then said it was a bank holiday and that he would send it out Tuesday, ignored me till yesterday where he claimed he had sent it out, but honestly he has said it's sent so many times and it didn't arrive I don't trust it any more

13:48:16 punkman: yeah that's not very good

13:48:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382541 << yea, actually, the one thing bitcointalk is a source for is miner stuff. they never got any other venue , well noit publicly anyway

13:48:24 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 06:06:51; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and i'm going to guess most of this history is on bitcointalk.org

13:48:48 Azelphur: Indeed it's not, had no money over christmas. His misinformation has cost me money too

13:49:57 mircea_popescu: o.O

13:50:02 mircea_popescu: that didn't work out so well did it

13:50:08 Azelphur: apparently not, no

13:50:20 Azelphur: was great up until the whole not paying me thing

13:50:38 punkman: you were working with him for a while though, right?

13:50:51 Azelphur: punkman, yea, I started with him last October iirc

13:51:22 Azelphur: ie, October 2014

13:51:27 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla http://fraudsters.com/2016/bitbet-sbbet-december-2015-statement/#comment-116281 << anything to this ?

13:51:28 assbot: BitBet (S.BBET) December 2015 Statement on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ppwpwi )

13:52:59 punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah I get a new cert on bitbet, issued 2016/01/21

13:53:05 mircea_popescu: ah kk.

13:53:15 mircea_popescu: thing ended up in spam, possibly because of the link

13:54:31 Azelphur: but yea, officially looking for new work now. Hopefully it's a good move and I'll get paid a little more (and at all :P)

14:00:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382551 << ahaha no that's a balloon. dirigible is oval not buttshaped.

14:00:42 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 08:40:37; punkman: ^ dirigible

14:01:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382554 << he also had a blog which was pretty good.

14:01:05 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 08:52:39; assbot: Latest posts of: organofcorti ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pp0g8b )

14:01:18 mircea_popescu: iirc the dude hated me for some reason.

14:02:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382567 << well, actually, they sold back when they had to take the poisoned dollars of the masses, a few bucks at a time. once they n olonger need that, they don't. who eats garbage if they can help it.

14:02:51 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 09:03:04; kakobrekla: they sold until it was garbage, now that further decreasement in process size are hardly possible, they hold

14:03:35 mircea_popescu: Azelphur notsure why you're not using the assbot wot anyway.

14:04:09 Azelphur: mircea_popescu, haven't been around much recently so haven't familiarised myself with it

14:04:15 mircea_popescu: ah

14:05:03 mircea_popescu: anyway, there was a bank holiday on monday. in the us. some black speechmaker dude

14:06:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382242 << tell a bit about the concentrated thing

14:06:15 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:32:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382094 << you deeply misunderstand what "investor grade" means in this context. the point is that he is RARE. you understand this ? the fundamental property of capital control in any functioning society without exception possible is that it must be concentrated.

14:06:21 Azelphur: mircea_popescu, yea I know, dude is very good at excuses, as I say it has been 3 months, and even if he has sent a bank transfer it's still only for a small percentage of total owed

14:06:29 asciilifeform: is it the '1024 chickens' idea ?

14:06:52 mircea_popescu: nope. it's the "brain resides in skullbox not spread out throughout cells like mitochondria".

14:07:00 asciilifeform: same thing, no ?

14:07:14 mircea_popescu: i guess it can be viewed so, yeah. ok.

14:07:25 asciilifeform: i'm trying to grasp how it isn't an argument for gosplan tho

14:07:30 mircea_popescu: the problem here is that both ox and chickens are separate from the thing they pull.

14:07:41 mircea_popescu: ah, this IS an argument for gosplan. the only one.

14:07:45 Azelphur: if it was just missed payment by a few days I'd be cool with it, heck I was fine with it up until about 2 weeks late, stopped working when it was a month late, and public -10 has only happened after 3 months late

14:07:51 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the argument against gosplan is that "fuck you".

14:08:00 mircea_popescu: while you personally may not be inclined, i am, and without me it dies.

14:08:08 mircea_popescu: Azelphur i c.

14:08:51 Azelphur: started to get really annoyed when I had the choice of taking money out of my cold wallet or taking a loan from my parents to make rent over christmas - not cool :/

14:09:04 asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu doesn't have an argument against gosplan ?! other than not liking the colour & shape on purely aesthetic grounds?

14:09:29 mircea_popescu: the argument against gosplan is exactly the argument against "hi guise i am ceo".

14:09:35 mircea_popescu: "who the fuck are you ?"

14:09:39 Azelphur: I feel bad -10ing him though, I like to work things out with people and it just sucks that he's not meeting his obligations or even being reasonable really

14:10:10 mircea_popescu: which is why all the red square nuclear bomb displays and etc. obligate pompousness.

14:10:12 asciilifeform: lucky we are that 'hi guise im ceo' has no army and no navy.

14:10:13 mircea_popescu: it's a forced mistake.

14:10:20 mircea_popescu: quite.

14:10:33 asciilifeform: (except when he does, e.g., obamitler)

14:10:35 mircea_popescu: problem being, they don't actually help, just serve to alienate me further.

14:11:14 asciilifeform: only because the beast is immunocompromised

14:11:23 mircea_popescu: mno.

14:11:36 mircea_popescu: i am immune to it, it depends on me. this creates a certain situation of power in the field.

14:12:06 asciilifeform: depends how ?

14:12:09 mircea_popescu: anyway, in the expression of the castrated subhumans that nevertheless are intelligent enough to notice the problem, this is usually called the "knowledge problem", ie poor state can't acquire and process enough information to make a reasonable gosplan.

14:12:34 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, this is a flattering if incorrect representation. like saying "unfortunately whale did not have enough evolution mojo to grow wings". yeasure.

14:13:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have no idea how to formulate this better than to refer you to the (oft mentioned, by me) worms dispute.

14:13:24 mircea_popescu: king can not invest by staff. he doesn't have a staff to give.

14:18:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: modern usg is going for 'eastern despot' caesaropapism.

14:18:46 mircea_popescu: which is why they keep inventing academic honors for the emperor. they work admirably, don't they.

14:19:00 asciilifeform: hey it worked for the 5000yr egyptianreich!

14:19:04 mircea_popescu: not so.

14:19:26 mircea_popescu: your idea that "5000 yr egyptianreich" is not unlike a 1900s victorian idea that "5000 yr chinareich". wut ?

14:19:39 mircea_popescu: they had more dynasties than americans had sexual partners.

14:19:39 asciilifeform: point^

14:21:46 mircea_popescu: ironically, the people who could be caesar ie emperor and pontifex max uniformly do not wish to be, so much so it's almost a heuristic.

14:22:17 mircea_popescu: and they do not wish to be not because they somehow give a shit about brutus and brutish jealousies.

14:22:53 mircea_popescu: but, at this juncture, augustus' memoirs are recomended re-read. might explain the vecchio rotinculo much closer than before.

14:24:48 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382542 << ukrs are apparently really good at shooting into 1) air 2) earth 3) defenceless farm houses. who'dhaveknown.

14:24:48 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 06:17:35; mats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5R9SZM2jaE

14:25:04 asciilifeform: spiffy firewurx.

14:25:38 asciilifeform: and wake me up when they ~make~ a tank.

14:25:58 mircea_popescu: aww why the haet!

14:26:10 mircea_popescu: dja know that the AVERAGE ammo expenditure per enemy killed is in the 2mn range by now ?

14:26:32 mircea_popescu: people keep mocking hollywood marksmanship. mostly because they've never been in a warzone.

14:26:57 asciilifeform: well also because did not go to kindergarten, never learned concept of suppressive fire

14:28:26 mircea_popescu: seeing how it's about 2kj per bullet, we find that each enemy combatant takes ~1MWh in bullets only!

14:29:14 mircea_popescu: and that's on the modest 39mm. pretty much a thing of the past, everyone doing 51 now amirite. so 2x that.

14:30:43 *: asciilifeform was very very confused until realized that mircea_popescu is counting the ~length~ of the shell !

14:31:04 mircea_popescu: well yes. 39 is the old ak/sks russian thing. nato has a bigger one.

14:31:56 asciilifeform: today as in '70s the man-portable small arms fire the 'intermediate' things and the squad guns - the 1890s longer one.

14:33:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101766 @ 0.00055833 = 56.819 BTC [-] {3}

14:33:59 mircea_popescu: well, depends. the large nato round is really like the hunting .308

14:34:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://s242.photobucket.com/user/Akalvarez_2007/media/PANA0003.jpg.html << sov-new (ak74), nato-new (m16), sov-old (ak47), nato-old-fullsize, sov-old-fullsize (mosin, and all ru squad guns, 1890s round)

14:34:49 assbot: Ammo Side By Side Photo by Akalvarez_2007 | Photobucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1KwjWQb )

14:35:58 mircea_popescu: aha

14:36:05 asciilifeform: notice the very archaic flanged shell and rimmed bottom on the last

14:36:18 mircea_popescu: yeah lol.

14:36:23 mircea_popescu: century old bullet!

14:36:28 asciilifeform: oldest rifle cartridge still in mass use.

14:36:56 asciilifeform: more than century.

14:37:34 *: asciilifeform played with a bag of empty shells of those, as a boy

14:43:39 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382439 << i thought we had this ?

14:43:39 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:23:47; mircea_popescu: and for the love of christ implement either rolling or else a maxsize for files or something.

14:44:22 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382433 << all i really want presently is to dump mempool. and to have some means of removing ANYTHING whatsoever from it. because if we had this, we COULD semispace-garbagecollect.

14:44:22 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:20:23; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382232 << even the simple step of "add flag to trb to dump mempool into file each time a block is found" would be helpful atm.

14:44:59 asciilifeform: (add what belongs in the pool to a new pool, then nuke what remains. also defrags...)

14:45:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let the guy do something useful wouldja. step at a time.

14:45:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382456 << ick

14:45:19 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 05:33:08; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it could always curl deedbot.org for the latest.

14:45:34 mircea_popescu: and drink humour vitamins!

14:45:39 asciilifeform: l0lzamins

14:46:12 mircea_popescu: very fucking hard making jokes about bitcoin codebase, seeing the state it's in.

14:46:32 asciilifeform: 'who has been in the army, does not laugh in the circus' (tm) (r) (su)

14:46:47 mircea_popescu: like fucking pagliacci over here, just turns to sad.

14:46:52 mircea_popescu: ahahaha quite.

14:47:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382549 << this looks disturbingly like BingoBoingo's material

14:47:25 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 08:40:14; punkman: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/23/a1/38/23a138d0e5eeb772813bb196e4c5f31c.jpg

14:48:20 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382561 << this seems like a deviously clever notion until you recall that most of the asic miners were - quite likely deliberately - not built to last

14:48:20 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 08:59:13; punkman: "It has been quite a while since any new hardware became available, it is reasonable to assume that most small miners will have recouped the majority of what they initially outlaid for the hardware, and are now disinclined to continue ‘supporting the network’, whilst incurring unnecessary cost. So: MegaBigPowers ‘land-grab’, to acquire all this idle hashing power seems like a smart move. As,

14:48:48 mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/06e1a4f30719f22ffe8bd2f8abe73b1b/tumblr_nd32f8rOuT1rqs8dwo1_1280.jpg << in other news, never trust a man with a garage.

14:48:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KwkTrB )

14:49:04 asciilifeform: (they never got the wear circuits to behave plausibly like a real-life bathtub curve, either. so the things would routinely ship with varying number of working hash cores, etc)

14:49:35 mircea_popescu: iirc the overall "delivered asic, all cores working" was in the <5% zone.

14:49:48 asciilifeform: aha.

14:50:20 asciilifeform: i've always wanted to do a bit of microscopy on those, see if there was a set of magicks for re-enabling the 'accidented' cores

14:50:41 kakobrekla: deliberately? imo overlyconfident.

14:51:02 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the whole racket stood on a solid column of chump, and was designed around such

14:51:36 mircea_popescu: more or less. really, esp early on, it was just blindly flailing.

14:51:39 kakobrekla: they didnt have the time to make anything past "this will prolly work"

14:51:58 mircea_popescu: easy to reinterpret what memory salvaged of the midden of history, but if you were there and saw the missing 95% from that story...

14:52:13 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if this were so, there would have been many asic co. sunk by a taped out dud

14:52:17 asciilifeform: afaik there were none.

14:52:19 mircea_popescu: and so there were.

14:52:30 mircea_popescu: ahahaha don't kid, you make my heart jump so.

14:52:32 asciilifeform: but i - obviously - wasn't there.

14:52:45 asciilifeform: nor wanted to be.

14:53:03 mircea_popescu: of the people who scammed their "investors, at least half, to two thirds, were scammed in turn, by their "providers".

14:53:12 kakobrekla: i did say probably, not possibly.

14:53:20 asciilifeform: yes but any public intel suggesting a taped-out total dud ?

14:53:24 asciilifeform: or just 'took the money & ran'

14:53:48 mircea_popescu: asicminer had a fully blown up run. so did bfl, twice iirc.

14:53:49 mircea_popescu: so did many others.

14:53:59 mircea_popescu: there were, up until early 2013 or so, more dead runs than live.

14:54:16 asciilifeform: i am specificially thinking of ~ic~ rather than ~board~

14:54:22 asciilifeform: i remember very well the smoking ~boards~

14:54:28 mircea_popescu: pre-packaged chips.

14:54:50 kakobrekla: afaik there were 'duds' i dont recall specifics from top of the head

14:55:03 asciilifeform: then yes.

14:55:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382579 << this is a mega-l0l, worth reading! turns out, one day they decided to play 'obfuscated c contest' at ft meade

14:55:27 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 09:39:27; BingoBoingo: http://tweetnacl.cr.yp.to/software.html

14:55:28 mircea_popescu: actually a proper history of early mining would be a most respectable endeavour for a serious, diligent historian at this point.

14:55:40 asciilifeform: (srsly who the FUCK uses 'salsa' etc)

14:55:44 mircea_popescu: of course they're busy fucking around doing nothing much. but hey, gosplan!

15:01:46 punkman: I'd like to contribute more debug-related patches, could maybe split the gui-snip stuff from debug_sanity patch, and start over.

15:02:27 punkman: does asciilifeform like anything from djb?

15:05:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68950 @ 0.00056063 = 38.6554 BTC [+] {2}

15:11:54 punkman: https://github.com/SergiusTheBest/plog interesting logging library, less than 1kloc, includes simple log rotation

15:11:56 assbot: GitHub - SergiusTheBest/plog: Portable and simple C++ logging library ... ( http://bit.ly/1KwmNbS )

15:32:26 asciilifeform: punkman: quite a few things

15:34:41 mircea_popescu: punkman start over, how you mean ?

15:35:12 asciilifeform: punkman: i'm a fan of the man's cryptoanalytic work. but the sv-popularity of his cipher primitives is concerning

15:35:48 asciilifeform: problem is that one doesn't get to 'make a name' in academe as 'cryptographer' by pushing rsa.

15:36:07 asciilifeform: just like you don't become a famous small arms designer by refining the kalash

15:36:17 asciilifeform: even if ~that would be the Right Thing~

15:36:39 asciilifeform: so he's stuck with the ecc gargle.

15:37:10 asciilifeform: and with devising block ciphers, which is very easy to 'do'

15:38:06 asciilifeform: !s from:mircea_popescu originality

15:38:06 assbot: 6 results for 'from:mircea_popescu originality' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+originality

15:38:08 asciilifeform: ^see also

15:39:01 mircea_popescu: djb = bernstein ?

15:39:07 asciilifeform: right

15:39:56 mircea_popescu: guy's brilliant, hard to argue with that. but yes, seems he's being slowly ground to paste by "teh system"

15:40:42 asciilifeform: one way to look at it is that he isn't much more of a 'free man' than, e.g., i am

15:40:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually may want to write him a letter, iirc he was also all about fits in head but arrived there on slightly different path

15:41:01 asciilifeform: in that he has to work on certain flavours of shit icecream, in order to eat

15:41:39 mircea_popescu: didn't he end up basically rewriting sendmail because sendmail sucked ?

15:41:43 asciilifeform: aha

15:42:18 punkman: mircea_popescu: start over, meaning make a new debug_sanity patch with more improvements (and without the gui snipping parts bundled together)

15:43:07 mircea_popescu: this with a view to better semantics, or with a view to reinstate gui ?

15:43:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my original thumbs-down for his patch was on account of bundling multiple-unlikes

15:43:58 mircea_popescu: it does carry water.

15:44:00 asciilifeform: the vestigial wx crapolade needs to go

15:44:03 asciilifeform: but ~in own patch~

15:44:11 asciilifeform: this makes it considerably easier to evaluate every path

15:44:14 asciilifeform: *patch

15:44:17 mircea_popescu: yeah.

15:44:18 punkman: both gui-snip and debug-sanity are gonna touch a lot of files though, and I would prefer to do this once

15:44:22 asciilifeform: 'does this do X and ONLY X'

15:44:35 asciilifeform: punkman: this is very much the wrong idea

15:44:48 asciilifeform: we aren't trying to minimize patch-line-counts AS SUCH

15:44:50 mircea_popescu: punkman certainly a worthy attempt, even if mod6 prolly won't be able to put it in current release.

15:45:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes, but not what he said.

15:45:33 mircea_popescu: what i took it to mean was that if he's gonna load his head with shit, would rather do two things than one and reload

15:45:53 asciilifeform: ok to make the two patches in one sitting

15:45:56 asciilifeform: but they gotta be separate.

15:46:13 mircea_popescu: that small logger thing actually looks pretty good

15:46:19 mircea_popescu: to my documentedly noobish eye.

15:46:28 punkman: can do the gui-snip thing first, work is already done

15:46:47 mircea_popescu: incidentally, why the fuck does bitcoin have json support ? do we actually want this ?

15:47:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is still there because that is how the rpc thing works

15:47:15 mircea_popescu: yes but fuck that, we have a protocol that then imports json ?

15:47:20 punkman: need to have a format for api output anyway right?

15:47:26 asciilifeform: i very dearly wanted to rip it out, but then all the robotics folks are presently 'come to expect' will have to be scrapped.

15:47:32 mircea_popescu: this strikes me as the same fundamental insanity of "we'll replace bdb with leveldb in the sense that WE KEEP BOTH!!1".

15:47:40 asciilifeform: if you recall, i wanted to replace it with unix signals.

15:47:57 asciilifeform: or at the worst, a simple telnet-type protocol

15:47:57 mircea_popescu: i do but i don't recall why i wasn't so hot about that.

15:48:01 asciilifeform: because it sux

15:48:14 asciilifeform: but unix doesn't give us a rpc-thing that doesn't suck

15:48:17 mircea_popescu: yes because it sucks lol. if you're happy with that much.

15:48:25 punkman: standard format would be nicer than new invention

15:48:49 mircea_popescu: punkman only if "standard format" doesn't expand at pre-compile time into "here's a debalanced tree of 547657698 "standards""

15:48:54 asciilifeform: punkman: when the standard does not fit-in-head and yields 200kB of heathen code - it can go die

15:49:02 mircea_popescu: it is ipso definitio not a standard.

15:49:05 punkman: there are some tiny json libraries

15:49:05 mircea_popescu: just a glorified mess.

15:49:13 mircea_popescu: the implementation is not the standard.

15:49:17 asciilifeform: punkman: any written by wot men?

15:49:32 punkman: no

15:49:33 mircea_popescu: even before wot issue considered : there's two branches to corectness.

15:49:45 mircea_popescu: one is code, the other standard. it helps me nothing that you've made one small if this makes the other huge.

15:50:22 asciilifeform: sorta what i meant in earlier thread, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-01-2016#1380326

15:50:22 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 22:16:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380266 << yes! and you can almost ~define~ 'sane system' this way. with the caveat that it can't be a non-orthogonal fudge like a program consisting of one line 'start_bitcoind()' nor anything in that spirit. ORTHOGONAL operators.

15:50:34 mircea_popescu: i guess so.

15:50:43 asciilifeform: ~genuine~ reduction in complexity specifically excludes shenanigans where it is 'swept under the rug' and hidden somewhere else

15:54:10 punkman: well, something for the foundation to decide, whether json is to be kept or replaced with something else

15:54:57 asciilifeform: it is intrinsically retarded

15:55:03 asciilifeform: and the logical replacement is sexpr.

15:55:16 asciilifeform: which is 'standard' that fits in ONE MOTHERFUCKING PARAGRAPH

15:55:33 asciilifeform: and correctly implementable by a stray dog

15:55:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88000 @ 0.00056176 = 49.4349 BTC [+] {5}

15:56:12 punkman: so if I talk to to bitcoind with python I get sexpr in ascii or otherwise?

15:56:20 asciilifeform: in ascii.

15:57:08 asciilifeform: json is really sexpr but was dropped as a baby

15:57:52 asciilifeform: all sv garbage is of this general flavour, incidentally

15:58:10 punkman: could have both and break compatibility later

15:58:26 asciilifeform: i.e. something built by the hands of ACTUAL people, that WORKED, but taken by jolt-cola-drinking jwz types and 'hacked!111 1333773d' into... what we have

16:00:02 asciilifeform: anyway i did not touch the json thing for the same reason i did not touch the whitespace formatting

16:00:20 asciilifeform: ... because it does not solve any of the dire problems of the era

16:00:29 asciilifeform: 'deck chairs on titanic'

16:02:15 punkman: what is there to do on titanic other than abandon ship?

16:02:45 asciilifeform: the correct model is that there are no other ships.

16:02:54 asciilifeform: and the ocean is made of boiling oil.

16:03:32 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382747 << ftr i do not like this one bit. WHY ADD 1000 LINES OF ????

16:03:32 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 15:11:54; punkman: https://github.com/SergiusTheBest/plog interesting logging library, less than 1kloc, includes simple log rotation

16:04:05 asciilifeform: this is how we got prb.

16:04:13 asciilifeform: 'let's add this useful!11111 pheature'

16:06:17 punkman: and if prb had sane logging we wouldn't be having this discussion

16:07:03 asciilifeform: mno.

16:08:06 asciilifeform: it is bad enough that trb has 500 man-year of study baked into it. let's now add a 501st ?

16:08:10 asciilifeform: fuck that.

16:09:12 asciilifeform: ergo replacing, e.g., openssl, with a 1000 line thing THAT CAN BE UNDERSTOOD, is a worthy thing

16:09:28 asciilifeform: adding an ~additional~ turd to the ball of shit, is not.

16:10:23 asciilifeform: removing boost would be a worthy thing. BUT NOT if it multiplies the line count 2x, OR if it entails forcing gcc5 build

16:10:33 asciilifeform: (as discussed in the c++11 thread)

16:11:28 asciilifeform: ~likewise~ any change that increases substantially the number of lines written by non-wot folks, is ipso facto a loss.

16:11:56 asciilifeform: i thought all of this was elementarily obvious.

16:12:33 asciilifeform: with that in mind, YES, the logs need timestamps, or better still, an adjustable format, verbosity levels, etc.

16:12:39 asciilifeform: BUT NOT by adding some derp's 'log library'

16:13:39 asciilifeform: 'let's add the library' is, in mircea_popescu's well-chosen wordz, 'the hole through which the night slides in'

16:14:47 punkman: I didn't even dare suggest adding it of course!

16:21:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135000 @ 0.00056336 = 76.0536 BTC [+]

16:29:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47450 @ 0.00056336 = 26.7314 BTC [+]

16:57:05 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381103 << seems like everybody who doesn't lurk in #crypto-crackpots missed the joke

16:57:05 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 16:17:47; PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376728 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376731 << Later I realized why I missed the isomer joke: L is isomer of D, R is isomer of S, not quite interchangeable

17:46:19 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382818 << i think this is so.

17:46:19 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 15:55:03; asciilifeform: and the logical replacement is sexpr.

17:46:51 mircea_popescu: heh im bashing that baby stuff. alf huffed the right paint this morning :D

17:47:54 asciilifeform: achtung, panzers! does (99-39-110-89.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net) belong to one of ye lot ?

17:49:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382830 << not so. the first step of work is cleaning out the workspace. it is the work of truly inept management to impede on this "because it does not directly contribute to productivity"

17:49:32 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 16:00:29; asciilifeform: 'deck chairs on titanic'

17:52:11 mircea_popescu: re BingoBoingo 's https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993/4006420 << check out the ugly head of puritanism rearing its head yet again. "if i don't enjoy anything in the world i will surely be spared doom!!1". nothing's quite as resilient as idiocy.

17:52:13 assbot: Ruston's Guide to Spotting and Avoiding Fatfishing | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qre8hh )

17:53:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382843 << in italian accent "Did you ever think about what you're going to do on the toilet? (yelling) What are you going to do on the toilet!"

17:53:54 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 16:09:28; asciilifeform: adding an ~additional~ turd to the ball of shit, is not.

17:54:29 asciilifeform: l0l! is this a ref to something?

17:54:35 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2A9vRjwfQY << with interpretation.

17:54:36 assbot: Seinfeld - Edward Scissorhands BEST SCENE EVER - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PurcNu )

17:56:24 mircea_popescu: anyway. it's one thing to add "a library". it's another to "import this 1k lines that i read myself".

17:57:32 asciilifeform: if gonna add 1k lines, make it... tinyscheme-89

17:57:55 asciilifeform: implement tx debugger, sane logger instrumentation, and 101 other things, IN IT

17:58:11 mircea_popescu: now tinyscheme may be a good import

17:58:26 asciilifeform: so perhaps i can now admit to having this quietly on my hdd.

17:58:33 mircea_popescu: but conceptually, in my head at least, more of a "bitcoind migrates into bitcoinos" thing

17:58:45 asciilifeform: aha. slowly cut off chunks & replace with it.

17:59:11 asciilifeform: until the whole thing, one fine day, starts just fine in a mildly massaged sbcl

17:59:18 asciilifeform: and nobody even notices the cpp is gone.

18:00:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, as a general point : even if you did compute a fastest route, and even if in fact you are correct (which is fundamentally an undecidable problem), there is still no reason to panic if phenomena goes a slightly more circuitous path. there are at least two good reasons, both political. one's education (ie, benefit of the ingroup), the other ... well let's just say the other's for the benefit of the outgroup.

18:00:37 polarbeard: s/jsonrpc/ipc socket/g

18:00:51 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: sbcl?

18:00:53 mircea_popescu: holy shit why does that substitution need recursion.

18:01:24 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: http://sbcl.org

18:01:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QreCnu )

18:01:51 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: my personal favourite readily-available lisp runtime

18:01:54 polarbeard: and plug-in whatever you like

18:03:25 thestringpuller: i barely "know" C, how am I ever gonna learn LISP?!?!?

18:03:39 thestringpuller: LISP is like the masters saw.

18:03:51 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: will have to spend a weekend, possibly risk opening a book

18:05:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123300 @ 0.00056234 = 69.3365 BTC [-]

18:06:52 thestringpuller: "When you handle the master carpenter's tools, chances are that you'll cut your hand."

18:07:16 thestringpuller: I want to be competent/sane before attempting to pick up master carpenter's tools.

18:09:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, i now envision your toilet-of-the-future as looking rather like a cray-II.

18:10:06 mircea_popescu: lol!

18:10:16 mircea_popescu: for the record, no girl liked the idea.

18:10:20 asciilifeform: cray 1 rather

18:10:22 asciilifeform: oh? why not

18:10:44 mircea_popescu: "would this be a punishment toilet ? for like the dungeon ?" "do you think the jacuzzi is a punishment pool ?" "ewww!"

18:10:50 mircea_popescu: now doesn't want to go into jacuzzi.

18:11:47 asciilifeform: l0l!

18:11:50 asciilifeform: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/crays/cray1/portrait/DSC08196.JPG << for reference

18:11:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PusacC )

18:12:25 mircea_popescu: anyway, my idea was originalyl that it's a collaborative tool par excellence. girls better support each other's back, lest they fall in.

18:12:42 mircea_popescu: but i suspect this heavy... butted aesop is a little too hamfisted for the actual butts in question.

18:12:52 asciilifeform: oh huh

18:12:57 asciilifeform: with no backs, interesting.

18:13:04 asciilifeform: i really pictured more of a cray.

18:13:19 asciilifeform: (vs gigantic ivan iv - style cauldron)

18:13:27 mircea_popescu: http://static.dudeiwantthat.com//img/household/bathroom/jacuzzi-entertainment-system-5501.jpg << in other news, the new york apartment of the future.

18:13:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuslVi )

18:13:37 thestringpuller: https://mattnt.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/cray.png << this one?

18:13:55 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: yes. see also earlier link.

18:15:49 mircea_popescu: dude speaking of "provability" bs. FSB are "provably secure" because it can be proven they're at least as hard as regular syndrome decoding. which is np complete. while we don't actually know if THAT is in fact resolvable in polynomial time or not, nevertheless... PROVEDLY SECURE!!11

18:15:50 mircea_popescu: idiots.

18:16:27 mircea_popescu: "this bag is as heavy as that car. we don't know whether that car is just a cardboard cutout or what, but hey, provedly heavy bag! !1"

18:16:38 asciilifeform: don't expect ~sane~ crypto out of the leprosorium

18:16:49 asciilifeform: this is elementary.

18:17:11 asciilifeform: see also the ecc claptrap

18:17:25 asciilifeform: (as secure as 8x the bits of rsa!1111111)

18:17:25 mircea_popescu: and incidentally, as a bright mathematical mind pointed out once, "at some point the effort invested in stating rsa is 'widely researched' exceeds the effort ever expended into researching it"

18:17:33 asciilifeform: ^

18:18:01 mircea_popescu: it's one thing when five people who spend most of their time doing things gather in bohr's outhouse and agree "x is prolly hard".

18:18:07 mircea_popescu: it's another... eh, anyway. what am i doing.

18:18:38 asciilifeform: funnily enough, we did a walkover of the shmoo talks, incl. the crackpot algebraiceraser crypto thing, at the slave galley

18:19:10 asciilifeform: and even there folks chortled when i asked 'notice no mention of complexity class proof or even assumption'

18:20:27 mircea_popescu: the one thing i wonder, asciilifeform , is why do we always talk in strawmen.

18:20:46 asciilifeform: hm?

18:21:06 mircea_popescu: remember new guy, got overwhelmed a few days back.

18:21:25 asciilifeform: which?

18:21:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-01-2016#1381179

18:21:36 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 16:43:36; AdrianG: why do you guys only speak in strawmen?

18:22:12 thestringpuller: if they rip out OpenSSL for libsecp256k1 won't this cause undeterministic behavior in signature checking? Or does the "comooniteee" just want to not check signatures anymore?

18:22:13 asciilifeform: i was not able to decipher this

18:22:50 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382587 << hehuahuahaehua

18:22:50 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 13:32:55; Azelphur: ;;rate RagnarDanneskjol -10 3 months of unpaid salary, will remove rating if payment ever arrives.

18:23:24 ben_vulpes: i mean poor Azelphur

18:23:36 mircea_popescu: i just read it as "the difference between one's understanding and the course requirement, call it D, is the maximal aperture past which useful metaphors (with an utility marked as U) and inept strawmen (with a deviance marked as -U) can still be distinguished"

18:23:56 mircea_popescu: ie, if U > D, U and U' are undiscernible.

18:24:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had a spiffy article, 'variety speak' a while back.

18:25:20 asciilifeform: n00bz should not only read the logz but be grateful they don't have to learn 5,000 kanji first.

18:26:10 mircea_popescu: of course the correct method to learn greek consists of reading the source material and the angry german commentary in alternation.

18:26:38 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu may have his reasons for being so friendly and welcoming but bearing a deep suspicion of new faces in #b-a has saved me untold heartbreak (and no doubt riches, if i were to listen to robert viragh's ilk)

18:26:54 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382886 << for starters, stop capitalizing it... LISP is from the same era as ALGOL and nobody uses either one today

18:26:54 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:03:25; thestringpuller: i barely "know" C, how am I ever gonna learn LISP?!?!?

18:27:03 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where do you suppose they put spent ninjashotguns ?

18:27:14 asciilifeform: or do they rebarrel'em somewhere.

18:27:16 mircea_popescu: in marriages.

18:27:54 mircea_popescu: this is the traditional pathway of the derp. spends youth being inept, adolescence being revolutionary, gets metabolized by sub-slut grade female into "family unit"

18:27:57 asciilifeform: adlai: eh, if everyone knew this, how would we readily distinguish n00bz in conversation..

18:28:03 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: aren't there a million open source for 'em to get cycled through? each no doubt in need of deproblematizing some codebase of genderered nouns?

18:28:40 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: possibly. but iirc that one was quite ready for the glue factory

18:29:12 ben_vulpes: with just a touch of retraining he could be right at home in a bike advocacy group

18:29:17 mircea_popescu: lol

18:29:25 adlai: asciilifeform: because they'll mix up set, setf, get, getf, and never quite understand the long form expansion definitions

18:29:34 ben_vulpes: but airbnb started out with traffic calming!

18:29:34 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the kind that puts caltrops in front of trucks on a highway ?

18:29:40 mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, senor vulpes understands quite exactly what i don't like about the subculture.

18:29:42 ben_vulpes: i mean traffic calming is good for children!

18:29:55 ben_vulpes: you should put a wifi in that kid.

18:29:56 thestringpuller: adlai: I'm already lost. I'm super n00b when it comes to master's tools.

18:30:28 ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: oh ffs sit down with clojure for a week if you're so scared

18:30:44 ben_vulpes: php and c are actually bigger pains in the ass and less useable than any lisp

18:30:57 adlai: thestringpuller: if you really want to learn CL, get used to feeling lost because it takes a couple years / decades to reach all the keys on this piano

18:31:12 asciilifeform: eh no it doesn't, wtf

18:31:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85400 @ 0.00056314 = 48.0922 BTC [+] {2}

18:31:40 thestringpuller: maybe not for alfie who came out the womb with a commodore64 or some shiznit

18:31:41 adlai: well, longer than wrapping your head around all of C or $blub

18:31:55 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: for my own benefit what do i understand about bike advocacy?

18:31:57 asciilifeform: 978 motherfucking keywords in ansi std.

18:32:00 adlai: thestringpuller: how about i just hand you http://l1sp.org and you never feel lost again

18:32:01 assbot: L1sp.org - a redirect service for Common Lisp documentation ... ( http://bit.ly/1JsRSST )

18:32:09 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> with just a touch of retraining he could be right at home in a bike advocacy group <

18:32:29 ben_vulpes: oh the endless blithering of nonsense?

18:32:45 mircea_popescu: a certain sort, a certain type.

18:32:49 asciilifeform: incidentally it blew my mind when ben_vulpes told us that some of his workers commute on bike

18:32:59 asciilifeform: i can only picture a sordid 1890s shanghai

18:33:00 asciilifeform: or vietnam

18:33:11 mircea_popescu: http://tweetnacl.cr.yp.to/20131229/tweetnacl.h << for my own education, why the fuck does a .h file in a 2 file project need to say #ifndef TWEETNACL_H #define TWEETNACL_H endif ?

18:33:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JsS2th )

18:33:13 asciilifeform: (do any of them commute by riksha ?)

18:33:28 adlai: asciilifeform: my point is that it takes years of working in CL to have multiple opportunities to use each of those symbols to solve original problems

18:33:31 ben_vulpes: the notion of a functional town only mildly corrupted by cars must be as foreign to you as an atomic dirigible.

18:33:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many folks use editors that automatically insert the doubleifdef-preventer thing

18:33:54 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aaaactually my home town had very few cars

18:33:59 mircea_popescu: xml-c++

18:34:01 asciilifeform: but nobody but children on bicycle

18:34:10 asciilifeform: most folks rode trams, trolleys, a few buses.

18:34:30 ben_vulpes: ah well those are absent and generally reserved for the poverty stricken or physically disabled

18:34:35 asciilifeform: aha like here

18:34:48 ben_vulpes: and the cultural hatred of cars runs very deep.

18:34:49 adlai: asciilifeform: so amsterdam must literally be the circles of hell for you :P

18:35:00 asciilifeform: trains in d.c. are interesting in that they carry folks from hobo to gs-15

18:35:04 ben_vulpes: it'll be rather easy to turn that into a bloodthirsty hunt for californians alter.

18:35:07 ben_vulpes: later*

18:35:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53804 @ 0.00056336 = 30.311 BTC [+]

18:35:24 thestringpuller: why is everyone hating on cyclist? you alfie of all people stuck in the horrid traffic of DC on a daily basis.

18:35:42 thestringpuller: in peak traffic takes just as long to travel to work on bike as by car

18:35:45 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i've nothing against it per se but it is firmly linked in my head with the third world

18:35:51 mircea_popescu: because he's poor, young and in the way.

18:36:01 ben_vulpes: he can't imagine a situation in which people are not condemned to his own version of hell.

18:36:02 asciilifeform: ^^^

18:36:20 thestringpuller: i'd rather just not sit in traffic and get more fat, that is one step above purgatory.

18:36:24 adlai: thestringpuller: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-01-2016#1370925 (althoug i am not an exception to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382985 )

18:36:24 assbot: Logged on 15-01-2016 06:47:07; adlai: buy a bike, you'll learn more about trading and addiction from not getting run over than you will from losing money on plebian status symbols

18:36:24 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:34:01; asciilifeform: but nobody but children on bicycle

18:36:27 asciilifeform: as a driver, i always despised the self-righteous pedaller who was convinced that he 'saved mother earth'

18:36:39 ben_vulpes: no, just his spine.

18:36:42 asciilifeform: does pedal man know how much fuel is wasted by the mile-long column stuck behind him ?

18:36:57 ben_vulpes: this is a hallmark of a miserable place to live.

18:36:57 mircea_popescu: i never lived anywhere that wouldn't have just splattered the derp.

18:37:03 mircea_popescu: nor do i see why i would.

18:37:03 ben_vulpes: sane places seperate the traffic.

18:37:09 asciilifeform: if bicyclist is permitted on a public street, so should horse !

18:37:13 polarbeard: so now driving cars is altruism

18:37:14 asciilifeform: i would happily commute on horse.

18:37:19 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this mile long column exist regardless of cyclist in my neck of the woods

18:37:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40100 @ 0.00056336 = 22.5907 BTC [+]

18:37:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever brushed a horse ?

18:37:26 ben_vulpes: and as a matter of fact horses /are/ allowed on the road.

18:37:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not once.

18:37:38 ben_vulpes: and fwiw i'd rather ride a horse too.

18:37:45 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: depends on locale

18:37:50 adlai: recently tlv municipality outlawed horse-driven antique furniture carts ("alte zachen"), yet another law nobody cares about

18:37:54 asciilifeform: horse is not permitted here except when used by police

18:37:57 thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: there is a d00d who sold his car for horse at livestock auction where my gf lives.

18:38:00 mircea_popescu: yeah well. horse maintenance is a lotta work. the whole horseback thing is a honest signal of a hierarchical society.

18:38:11 asciilifeform: auto is not so much less work

18:38:16 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: met the horse people by the river yet?

18:38:28 thestringpuller: thing is actually pretty fast, but upkeep seems a bit high, and of course the thing eventually dies

18:38:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the polo thing you mean ?

18:38:38 ben_vulpes: nono

18:38:44 ben_vulpes: the people who live by the river plate

18:38:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somewhat less work, and importantly machineable.

18:38:48 ben_vulpes: and who raise their children on horses.

18:38:54 mircea_popescu: i dun think so.\

18:39:06 ben_vulpes: very nice people.

18:39:13 ben_vulpes: put together a lovely parillada.

18:39:23 ben_vulpes: have approximately zero pesos to rub together.

18:40:01 mircea_popescu: any hot gypo chicks ?

18:40:26 ben_vulpes: met them through a south african who coached the greek olympic polo? dressage? teams before greece stopped paying for niceties like that.

18:40:41 ben_vulpes: i'm sure you can find cooze wherever

18:41:01 mircea_popescu: ;;ud cooze

18:41:02 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cooze | A cooze is a superficial, shallow, provincial, and generally ignorant girl, who is so intellectually and socially repulsive, that their only r...

18:41:05 mircea_popescu: check it out, that's a new one.

18:41:14 ben_vulpes: also wrong.

18:41:41 ben_vulpes: shorthand in my world for cunt.

18:41:46 mircea_popescu: what's all this "Society" so and so talk anyway.

18:42:02 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i thought it was traditionally 'cunt with the rifling worn off'

18:42:12 ben_vulpes: well it's urban dictionary, they're obsessed with their betters

18:42:44 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this wouldn't be a result of tarantino-cultism would it ?

18:43:02 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can be. context dependent. above usage is just assumption that mircea_popescu can magic gurlz out of the air in bsas gutter, river plate shores, nile and probably inside the pyramids even

18:43:05 mircea_popescu: one of his worse monologues.

18:43:16 ben_vulpes: which'd that be?

18:43:24 mircea_popescu: "Ok, let me tell ya what "Like a Virgin"'s about."

18:43:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except cunt's not made out of soap, to wear off. it strengthens through usage.

18:44:14 asciilifeform: work-hardens ?

18:44:18 asciilifeform: like aluminum ?

18:44:18 mircea_popescu: pretty much.

18:44:21 asciilifeform: l0l

18:44:23 ben_vulpes: i swear we've done this thread

18:44:37 mircea_popescu: i think we might also do it again!

18:44:43 asciilifeform: until hard.

18:44:58 ben_vulpes: tonight, tonight...

18:45:18 mircea_popescu: imaqine all the people...

18:45:22 mircea_popescu: living in harmoneeee

18:46:01 ben_vulpes: hey y'all might appreciate my latest gentoo quest oopsie

18:46:40 ben_vulpes: i got the whole orchestra wired up, stage3 installed, everything mounted, uefi boot boss vanquished

18:47:05 ben_vulpes: and let the fucking laptop run out of batteries 2 seconds after running `emerge dhcpcd`

18:47:30 ben_vulpes: and this /retarded/ home router does not want to accept static IP declarations.

18:48:09 mircea_popescu: wait what ?

18:48:23 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: a hundy buys you a pf-capable box with 3 GB eth jacks

18:48:27 mircea_popescu: what router is that.

18:49:28 ben_vulpes: actiontec pk5001a

18:49:41 asciilifeform: ew

18:50:00 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would be horrified at the state of my internal network

18:50:14 ben_vulpes: probably everone

18:50:36 mircea_popescu: so throw it out, today.

18:50:40 ben_vulpes: look here i only recently decided to move the toilet out of the kitchen okay

18:50:46 mircea_popescu: ahahahaha what.

18:51:20 ben_vulpes: you neckbeards with a decade of setting up your own personal infrastructure have completely forgotten what it's like to be a clueless noob

18:51:24 asciilifeform: phun phakt, my father's childhood was in a flat where the toilet ~literally~ was in the kitchen, behind a curtain.

18:51:27 mircea_popescu: "i one day stumbled on this irc channel, and it changed my life. #totallynotacult."

18:51:59 *: ben_vulpes lets mircea_popescu say it

18:52:46 mircea_popescu: speaking of insane idiocies. one apt i'm leasing i nthe fabulous ba has the following INSANE arrangement : two bedrooms, united by a 3x3 hallway, off one side of which is a 3x4 bathroom, and off the corner of which is... ANOTHER, tiny, 1x2 bathroom.

18:52:57 mircea_popescu: because making a proper, 6x4 bathroom to unite two bedrooms is EVIL

18:52:58 ben_vulpes: on the flip side i have a far better understanding of how linux machines boot now. so, not a particularly horrendous waste of time.

18:53:01 mircea_popescu: and must have little hallway.

18:53:02 mircea_popescu: idiots.

18:53:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was prolly intended for 2+ humanoids who don't fuck

18:53:30 mircea_popescu: if i end up buying it i'm so tearing down that shit...

18:54:08 asciilifeform: we have gigantic towers of these very same things here, and more being built as we speak

18:54:21 asciilifeform: !s communal

18:54:22 assbot: 19 results for 'communal' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=communal

18:54:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion of sharing space and not fucking is almost as ridiculous as the notion of female wearing clothes before 30.

18:54:46 mircea_popescu: i get it, if you're visiting the 3 floor, 100k sqft country house of the marquis de Q you might not be fucking EVERYONE there.

18:54:50 mircea_popescu: but apartments ? gimme a break.

18:55:08 ben_vulpes: http://www.kgw.com/news/local/micro-apartments-as-small-as-150-square-feet-nw-portland/4373570

18:55:10 assbot: Micro apartments as small as 150 square feet NW Portland | KGW.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuuyQQ )

18:55:20 asciilifeform: l0l tokyo

18:55:42 ben_vulpes: and

18:55:43 ben_vulpes: http://koin.com/2015/12/16/tiny-space-big-price-micro-apartments-in-portland/

18:55:46 assbot: Tiny space, big price: Micro-apartments in Portland ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuuFvK )

18:55:56 ben_vulpes: eh it's not going to last

18:56:08 ben_vulpes: epic inventory hitting the market q4 2016 q2 2017

18:56:17 mircea_popescu: uh. 150 sq ft ?

18:56:21 asciilifeform: inventory of what?

18:56:22 mircea_popescu: so basically living in a bathroom

18:56:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: jail

18:56:37 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: mas apartmentos y condos

18:56:46 asciilifeform: except in jail they feed you and you (in most of usa) don't have to work

18:56:48 asciilifeform: so this is worse.

18:57:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that price floor is made of unobtainium and is going nowhere

18:57:09 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes everything inconvenient lasts in socialism.

18:57:14 asciilifeform: because if it caves in, the whole thing caves

18:58:10 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: portland goes through a boom-bust property cycle at about twice the frequency of the national market

18:58:12 asciilifeform: http://koin.com/2016/01/23/we-the-people-petition-white-house-to-arrest-bundy << linked from same rag. по просьбам трудящихся !111111 (tm) (r)

18:58:13 assbot: 'We the People' petition White House to arrest Bundy ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuuMqX )

18:58:31 mircea_popescu: lmao.

18:58:33 ben_vulpes: pretty routine to see 20% property value declines top to bottom

18:58:36 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so at what point in this supposed cycle can i walk in and buy a livable HOUSE for 20k?

18:58:51 asciilifeform: rounding error.

18:59:01 ben_vulpes: 2% is a rounding error, not 20.

18:59:06 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you have any idea what housing cost in the 80s ?

18:59:23 ben_vulpes: oh hilariously less

18:59:30 mircea_popescu: so yeah. 20% is a rounding error.

18:59:31 ben_vulpes: i'm not trying to argue against the property bezzle!

18:59:59 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the fluctuations come nowhere near making an actual palpable difference to anybody, ever.

19:00:53 asciilifeform: (it isn't as if they were of any serious amplitude, or even fluctuated in any particular phase to salaries, interest rates, or other relevant number)

19:00:54 ben_vulpes: my parents bought their current residence in...94? for 230k, are now batting away offers for 900+. i relent on the rounding error.

19:02:34 mircea_popescu: buy in 1981 for 35k, sell in 1994 for 230k, buy in 1994 for 230k sell in 2006 for 1.2mn

19:02:54 mircea_popescu: inflation over 25 years is a neat 3500%

19:03:12 mircea_popescu: 15% a year or thereabouts.

19:03:13 asciilifeform: 'how the world works!111' (tm)

19:03:21 mircea_popescu: so you took out a year and six weeks, once. rounding error.

19:03:32 ben_vulpes: okay okay!

19:04:48 asciilifeform: from billboard on other side of my commute: 'new townhomes in low 600s !'

19:04:57 asciilifeform: ^ in godforsaken piece of shit street

19:05:28 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is crack still going on in DC? or do the white people still live on the otherside of the ptomic

19:06:20 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there are upscale white folk in dc now

19:08:29 mircea_popescu: and meanwhile, when i visited the us people generally tipped 10% and derps were derping about how it's really not enough and should be more like 15%. incidentally looked on reddit the other day, "Everyone agrees" it should be over 20%.

19:08:36 mircea_popescu: soon enough it'll just be "double the bill".

19:09:59 mats: nice

19:10:53 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you sound like that d00d in pulp fiction who doesn't believe in tipping.

19:10:57 thestringpuller: Buscemi was it?

19:11:43 mircea_popescu: spare me, i don't believe in hiring your shitty workers on my dime. i'll take a slavegirl with, and she can wait on me. your inept "staff" can go hang, how abvout that ?

19:12:18 mircea_popescu: run a fucking business rather than a morroccan tourist trap and have some fucking self respect.

19:12:29 thestringpuller: p. much right?

19:12:32 mircea_popescu: p much.

19:13:13 thestringpuller: waiters are generally shitty at their job too, cause "I'll be an actress one day!"

19:13:34 thestringpuller: In US tho, they spit in your food when you insult them with low tips.

19:14:54 ben_vulpes: "no, honey, we're not going out. you cook better, plate better, and do it all in the nude. i am not paying for designer lights, too much salt, and shitty hipster wait staff drinking habits. plus you'll want to tip 20% for completely miserable service and i just got my shoes off."

19:16:37 mircea_popescu: p much.

19:17:23 thestringpuller: That's why in house chef's have become more popular than eating out.

19:17:36 thestringpuller: or at least in whites-ville suburbia where I live

19:19:23 mircea_popescu: i imagine a larger driver is that a) "restaurants" saw the "opportunity" to turn into caterers and "prepare" pre-prepared meals and b) nobody trusts their fucking acquisition process.

19:19:37 mircea_popescu: "you wanna cook for me, pick ingredients from over here" is the main driver, i expect.

19:20:37 thestringpuller: For me I just have my own menu and tell chef "fix X here is money to go buy groceries. Don't get the cheap stuff."

19:21:08 thestringpuller: I should learn to cook. But I'm an extremely fickle eater.

19:21:14 mircea_popescu: for the same deal you could just get a poor gf.

19:21:31 mircea_popescu: i suppose ~half the marriages in the world today happen about like that.

19:21:32 thestringpuller: She doesn't cook as well as my buddy who went to culinary school.

19:21:50 mircea_popescu: well, get a competent immigrant. ukr chicks cook well.

19:22:40 thestringpuller: aha. I really should just learn to _actually_ cook. But I don't even know what foods I like.

19:22:53 mircea_popescu: travel & find out.

19:23:10 thestringpuller: when I'm no longer a USian slave I do plan to find out ;)

19:23:26 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://36.media.tumblr.com/853da9c157c3a3129d72bdf4892949fb/tumblr_mttcnr7D0x1sjgtlbo1_1280.jpg

19:23:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Puwjxe )

19:24:35 thestringpuller: Eventually there'll be enough good porn links in the logs to have a !bait command

19:31:10 ben_vulpes: from:mircea_popescu media.tumblr.com

19:31:13 ben_vulpes: ain't hard

19:46:28 ben_vulpes: in other apple nyooz, 'el capitan' ships with a new program 'photos'

19:47:00 ben_vulpes: that starts up, shits 40gb of files to disk immediately while importing the classic 'iphoto' library, and has now been spinning on the import for 2 straight days now.

19:47:02 ben_vulpes: fuck these people.

19:57:24 ben_vulpes: ah it was punkman with the logs

20:00:15 fluffypony: with the candlestick?

20:00:34 deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] The measure of a state is its ability to deny benefits to outsiders - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/01/23_the-measure-of-a-state-is-its-ability-to-deny-benefits-to-outsiders.html

20:03:29 ben_vulpes: fluffypony: in the server room

20:03:51 fluffypony: heh

20:03:54 ben_vulpes: huh shoulda fixed the date on that wotpost while i was at it

20:03:59 ben_vulpes: O WELL

20:05:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383171 << i did not notice this

20:05:38 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 19:47:00; ben_vulpes: that starts up, shits 40gb of files to disk immediately while importing the classic 'iphoto' library, and has now been spinning on the import for 2 straight days now.

20:05:52 asciilifeform: perhaps because i did not use the old sack'o'garbage ?

20:05:59 asciilifeform: nor the new ?

20:06:01 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i imagine you don't use iphoto

20:06:07 asciilifeform: wtf does it even do

20:06:23 ben_vulpes: open, see

20:06:27 asciilifeform: take photos with the cruddy webcam in the machine ?

20:06:36 *: ben_vulpes shakes head slowly

20:06:40 ben_vulpes: that'd be photo booth

20:06:42 ben_vulpes: oh ho ho

20:06:49 ben_vulpes: i discovered my photo booth archives from freshman year

20:06:52 ben_vulpes: oh the tits

20:07:49 asciilifeform: so tell me what makes this app necessary

20:08:24 ben_vulpes: gimp is not a thing on macos?

20:08:29 ben_vulpes: necessary is a stretch

20:08:47 ben_vulpes: iphoto i'm sure will eventually fall to quest of removing toilets from places they should not be

20:09:23 ben_vulpes: handy categorizer-of-photos-by-exif is probably the best justification for my continued use of it

20:09:42 *: ben_vulpes takes a lot of photos

20:10:00 ben_vulpes: has since...02?

20:10:19 ben_vulpes: would pull down the negative books from that era but they're in the family fire-proof safe

20:10:44 ben_vulpes: yes, i store the negatives, wtf with this printed photo nonsense.

20:11:27 ben_vulpes: on the flip side i do *not* store raw digital photos.

20:11:35 ben_vulpes: absurd waste of bits. photography is lossy, deal.

20:12:45 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382860 << recurring thread at $shop: encourage people to customize for personal ergonomics and efficiency or attempt to cultivate a standard environment for ease of collaboration on each other's devices?

20:12:45 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 17:49:32; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382830 << not so. the first step of work is cleaning out the workspace. it is the work of truly inept management to impede on this "because it does not directly contribute to productivity"

20:14:04 ben_vulpes: probably unresolved because we're coolies working oars with illusions of being graham's "six smart hackers in a room"

20:15:27 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382890 << you are actually far more likely to lose a hand on the table saw your friend keeps in the garage that he doesn't know how to teach you to use than planing something flat on the master's shaper.

20:15:27 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:06:52; thestringpuller: "When you handle the master carpenter's tools, chances are that you'll cut your hand."

20:16:16 ben_vulpes: mostly because the shaper is a 5hp terror of cutter-face that'll make you think seven times before even beginning to cut, whereas your friend's table saw doesn't have the sawstop that your *other* idiot friend bought.

20:17:17 ben_vulpes: https://youtu.be/XVktVFyid-Y?t=150 << obligatory slo-mo sawstop

20:17:18 assbot: Finger into Sawstop at slow motion - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/20l7hsm )

20:31:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.00055893 = 38.678 BTC [-] {3}

20:32:26 punkman: "SawStop has provoked opposition from the Power Tool Institute (PTI), which represents Black & Decker, Hilti, Hitachi Koki, Makita, Metabo, Bosch, Techtronic Industries and WMH Tool Group."

20:34:00 punkman: "In April 2008 they told Congress that SawStop's braking system is: dangerous because it requires the user to come in contact with the blade before activating; unproven, particularly in terms of durability; prone to false trips caused by commonly available wet and green wood; potentially vulnerable to latent damage that cannot be inspected and may cause a hazard; costly to the user because once

20:34:00 punkman: activated, saw blade and cartridge must be replaced; and significantly more expensive, ranging from a minimum of 25 percent and ranging upwards depending on saw type"

20:34:13 punkman: lulzy

20:35:20 punkman: "The PTI objects to the licensing necessary due to the "more than 50 patents" related to SawStop's braking system; such costs "would destroy the market for the cheapest, most popular saws, adding $100 or more to the price of consumer models that typically sell for less than $200." In response, their members developed "new plastic guards to shield table saw users from the dangers of a spinning

20:35:20 punkman: blade". PTI says "its member companies have received no reports of injuries on [the 750,000] table saws with the new guard design.""

20:35:44 ben_vulpes: punkman: they're fighting him because he kicked their ass on the licensing front

20:35:56 ben_vulpes: and the plastic guard is a joke, comes off at the first opportunity.

20:36:05 punkman: I bet it is

20:36:22 punkman: but can you really trust a carpenter with all 10 fingers?

20:39:44 shinohai: I think I saw this. Said guard does destroy the blade in the process.

20:39:46 mats: i learned today that the 82nd recently retrofitted their M4s to full auto

20:42:09 ben_vulpes: shinohai: i'd rather lose a blade than a finger.

20:42:46 ben_vulpes: in any event i'm long out of that line of work, and for good reason.

20:43:14 asciilifeform: !s sawstop

20:43:15 assbot: 0 results for 'sawstop' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sawstop

20:43:18 asciilifeform: hm

20:43:29 asciilifeform: short story, the shits tried to make their PATENTED thing MANDATORY

20:43:48 asciilifeform: and when the whole industry, predictably, tried to push back, 'oh noez they WANT your fingers chopped!1111'

20:44:26 asciilifeform: mats: was there ever a real rationale for the 3-round burst thing at all ?

20:44:29 ben_vulpes: mandatory? oh do cite plz

20:44:43 mats: asciilifeform: suppressive fire

20:45:28 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382679 << longer, but narrower

20:45:28 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 14:31:04; mircea_popescu: well yes. 39 is the old ak/sks russian thing. nato has a bigger one.

20:45:36 mats: what a massive waste of money for a) retrofit b) encouraging people to rambo

20:45:51 asciilifeform: mats: suppressive fire would be an argument for ordinary full auto, nein ?

20:45:58 ben_vulpes: ibd

20:46:00 ben_vulpes: that's hilarious

20:47:01 ben_vulpes: hey totally valid business strategy under gosplan--get yer shit mandated for use

20:47:28 punkman: ah now it makes more sense

20:47:30 mats: asciilifeform: well, yeah. burst is pretty good in close quarters

20:47:46 mats: the round itself is pretty light and you can control the grouping with practice

20:48:04 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://toolmonger.com/2012/09/14/more-sawstop-bs << randomly picked summary

20:48:07 assbot: More SawStop BS | Toolmonger ... ( http://bit.ly/20la0lz )

20:48:16 ben_vulpes: meanwhile found it

20:48:17 asciilifeform: mats: i was asking about the 3-round limit

20:49:20 asciilifeform: i found it a puzzling thing, esp. given as nato world uses professional soldiers rather than orcish conscripts, the latter presumably cannot be trained to let go of the trigger

20:49:40 punkman: what's with the pharma spam in that article

20:49:57 asciilifeform: punkman: never seen a blog gone to seed before ?

20:52:44 mats: most people i've run into have been trained to exclusively use semi auto

20:53:12 asciilifeform: how do you lay suppressive fire with semi ? ww1 volley style ?

20:53:21 mats: and some high speed units that have MOUT missions will teach burst in cqb

20:54:32 mats: and traditionally folks are taught that suppressive fire is for the SAW gunner

20:55:51 BingoBoingo: lol, yeah this idiocy exists everywhere http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382862

20:55:51 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 17:52:11; mircea_popescu: re BingoBoingo 's https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993/4006420 << check out the ugly head of puritanism rearing its head yet again. "if i don't enjoy anything in the world i will surely be spared doom!!1". nothing's quite as resilient as idiocy.

21:01:37 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382941 << I have no recollection of what it was that flipped that paranoia switches when he was PM'ing me drunk, sober reading the logs unrevealing, but I am now very glad that breaker flipped.

21:01:37 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:26:38; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu may have his reasons for being so friendly and welcoming but bearing a deep suspicion of new faces in #b-a has saved me untold heartbreak (and no doubt riches, if i were to listen to robert viragh's ilk)

21:02:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: reading the log i posted as his rating was not enough ?

21:02:46 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not Robert V, The ragnar dude

21:02:57 asciilifeform: ah

21:03:25 BingoBoingo: The one who came with various promises of toil so can eat while hodl

21:04:18 BingoBoingo: At least it is one less ammends to make when step 9 comes around

21:05:01 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382902 << that's exactly what I had imagined

21:05:01 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:12:25; mircea_popescu: anyway, my idea was originalyl that it's a collaborative tool par excellence. girls better support each other's back, lest they fall in.

21:07:08 punkman: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/firearms-gangs-glamorous-assistant-who-7228168

21:07:09 assbot: Firearms gang's glamorous assistant who posed in provocative selfie with AK-47 jailed for 10 years - Mirror Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZUP3RN )

21:12:40 ben_vulpes: dafuq is a deactivated weapon

21:13:46 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383023 << Here horse is most privileged. Permitted on sidewalk, bike lanes, and road proper. Only limit on their popularity is pooper scooper laws.

21:13:46 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:37:54; asciilifeform: horse is not permitted here except when used by police

21:29:10 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: "deactivated" typically means barrel filled with lead and various parts molested to place it substantially far from being a weapon capable of operation. Reactivating mean replacing parts.

21:30:01 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: museum weapon

21:31:18 BingoBoingo: Also that.

21:32:30 BingoBoingo: For a while many of the fine mail order retailers of 'Murica actually marketed many of these museum weapons in their pages. Most have moved on from that though.

21:40:19 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3710

21:40:21 assbot: JL: Neanderthal Idiots in Harm City ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbGa0d )

21:42:25 BingoBoingo: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/01/sympathy_for_the_devil_but_none_for_white_victims_of_violence.html#ixzz3y5ORkdBG

21:42:26 assbot: Articles: Sympathy for the Devil... But None for White Victims of Violence ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbGmwp )

21:43:34 BingoBoingo: "When one boy snarled she should go back to India, she told him that under his argument he should go back to Africa. That cost her a disciplinary inquiry for 'racism'. She was also hauled in for suspected 'racism' when she used the technical term "negate" in her class -- and a black girl took it as an epithet and brought her hell-raising mother to school to confront her in the principal's office. "

21:53:44 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

21:53:51 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 390.36, vol: 7889.73415043 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 393.0, vol: 5116.00628 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 389.79, vol: 25994.71324663 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 352.0, vol: 8.10773217 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 392.84704, vol: 78857.98570000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 390.8, vol: 372.47406101 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 399.40716801, vol: 19.80240217 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

21:54:55 BingoBoingo: ;;more

21:54:56 gribble: 392.007608699

21:55:01 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

21:55:05 gribble: Current Blocks: 394695 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 440 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

21:57:22 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-01-2016#1362586 << citation

21:57:22 assbot: Logged on 08-01-2016 00:12:37; asciilifeform: and even not considering this absurdity, you would have same problem as vasectomy patient (the sperm gets reabsorbed and your immune system begins to generate antibodies against it. with bonus measurable extra risk of alzheimer's)

21:57:23 ben_vulpes: ?

22:00:36 *: asciilifeform entirely snowed in, finally

22:00:42 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you will have to unearth the thing yourself

22:00:57 mats: stuck at work, asciilifeform ?

22:01:03 asciilifeform: mats: nah

22:01:37 mats: fortunate

22:03:07 ben_vulpes: huh

22:03:13 thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: see PM

22:03:22 ben_vulpes: for someone reason vasalgel is being pushed as an alternative to risug

22:03:25 BingoBoingo: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zRrZQ14Y--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/klka9zgkgsp0qhksprw8.jpg << US cops now doing the stupid "gansta grip"

22:03:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/20lgJfo )

22:03:50 ben_vulpes: ty thestringpuller

22:04:09 mats: i feel bad for the pizza guy that has to drive here in 45 mins

22:05:09 BingoBoingo: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/21/oberlins-president-refuses-negotiate-student-list-demands

22:05:12 assbot: Oberlin's president refuses to negotiate with student list of demands ... ( http://bit.ly/20lgReM )

22:06:06 BingoBoingo: "The 14-page list of demands at Oberlin was detailed and contained many controversial items. Among other things, it demanded the immediate firing of some Oberlin employees, the immediate tenuring of some faculty members, specific curricular changes, a review and possible revision of the grading system (to be overseen by students), the creation of "safe spaces" for black students in at least three buildings on campus, the creation

22:06:06 BingoBoingo: of a program to enroll recently released prisoners from a nearby prison as undergraduates, divestment from Israel, and a requirement that black student leaders be paid $8.20 an hour for their organizing efforts."

22:06:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383171 <<< blockchain crapologies ?

22:06:58 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 19:47:00; ben_vulpes: that starts up, shits 40gb of files to disk immediately while importing the classic 'iphoto' library, and has now been spinning on the import for 2 straight days now.

22:08:31 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol whence the spunk ? blackdemandsmatter!

22:08:42 mircea_popescu: oh wait, Marvin Krislov. almost russian!

22:08:53 BingoBoingo: Nah, Oberlin jack off

22:09:09 BingoBoingo: It's Oberlin though so they've been enabling this shit for decades

22:09:37 mircea_popescu: http://www.press.umich.edu/1181733 << the irony.

22:09:39 assbot: The Next Twenty-five Years ... ( http://bit.ly/20lhk0D )

22:10:45 asciilifeform: one wonders, why not 'the next twenty-five thousand years'

22:11:57 mircea_popescu: because "progress".

22:12:06 asciilifeform: ogress.

22:12:23 mircea_popescu: well yeah. any sort of longer stretch is either inacceptably unprogressive or outright ridiculous.

22:12:50 mircea_popescu: consider : "so we'll have 3500% inflation over the next 25 years." "wait, that coems to ONLY 15% a year ? TOO SMALL!!1"

22:13:05 ben_vulpes: oho i'm going to have a blast with those demands later

22:13:05 mircea_popescu: sure baby. now do 150% a year for 25`000 years.

22:13:16 *: asciilifeform just finished transplanting the switch under 'printscreen' to under spacebar

22:13:31 asciilifeform: so nice to have industrial soldering iron at last, heats up in maybe 5sec

22:13:40 mircea_popescu: "wait, that coems to ONLY 15% a year ? TOO SMALL!!1" <<< meant to be "only 150%", cuz nigga can't exponentiate, divides instead.

22:14:54 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so you starting your own "drunken mousy middle chalss chick at college" tumblr ?

22:15:33 ben_vulpes: waiwut?

22:15:41 BingoBoingo: Further ButtFurry lulz, Want to boost block size, but... https://archive.is/MI5UM

22:15:42 assbot: Cryptolution comments on "Consensus Round Table" meeting in Miami going on now ... ( http://bit.ly/1PdShc5 )

22:15:42 mircea_popescu: i dunno, jus going through logs.

22:15:55 BingoBoingo: "This meeting has reached a maximum of 50 participants. Please try again later."

22:15:58 ben_vulpes: in reference to?

22:16:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383191 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383168

22:16:16 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 20:06:49; ben_vulpes: i discovered my photo booth archives from freshman year

22:16:16 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 19:31:10; ben_vulpes: from:mircea_popescu media.tumblr.com

22:17:32 ben_vulpes: nah, just giving the botmakers lurking a tip on how to automate the baitprocurement

22:21:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383219 <<< i wouldn't buy a thing with "SawStop (tm)" and i certainly don't want to HAVE to.

22:21:50 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 20:35:44; ben_vulpes: punkman: they're fighting him because he kicked their ass on the licensing front

22:22:05 asciilifeform: ^

22:22:25 asciilifeform: it is worse than that mercedes that brakes by itself.

22:22:37 mircea_popescu: quite. no rule everyone must run a saw.

22:22:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383224 << and this to me just reads "we gave up on learning any aim".

22:22:50 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 20:39:46; mats: i learned today that the 82nd recently retrofitted their M4s to full auto

22:22:58 mircea_popescu: oddly related to the saw thing.

22:23:33 *: ben_vulpes admittedly has difficulty pulling head out of workplace safety mindset

22:23:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1383232 <<< yes.

22:23:34 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 20:44:26; asciilifeform: mats: was there ever a real rationale for the 3-round burst thing at all ?

22:23:42 asciilifeform: actually it suggests usg confidence that it will ~never~ suffer shortages of ammo

22:23:44 asciilifeform: even localized

22:23:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes workplace safety != this just like domestic faithfulness != chastity belts.

22:25:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't fucking aim that bs.

22:25:21 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: wut?

22:25:36 mats: its a change that does make rifle teams more flexible

22:25:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: full auto is for suppressive fire, just needs to go in the general direction of the enemy, nein ?

22:25:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but ONLY full auto means you can't do most of the things you actually want to do.

22:26:02 mircea_popescu: you want suppressive fire get a fucking platform.

22:26:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: m16 was never 'only'

22:26:19 mircea_popescu: what the fuck are you going to do with a pos hot rifle that only fires full auto in the remains of a town ?

22:26:21 mats: although the effect is psychological and may not work against a trained enemy

22:26:26 mircea_popescu: shoot yourself and be done with the misery, i guess.

22:26:27 asciilifeform: it was traditionally select b/w single and auto

22:26:41 mircea_popescu: from what i understood it went full auto ?

22:26:44 mircea_popescu: or do i misunderstand ?

22:26:56 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they removed the 3-round burst thing that was put in instead of auto in the '90s

22:26:56 mircea_popescu: mats and "trained" in this context merely means experienced.

22:27:07 asciilifeform: it had a clockwork gadget that fired 3s

22:27:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform like every civilised everyone everwhere. aim the first.

22:27:34 mircea_popescu: by the time the 3rd went off, your barrel is so far up high it no longer matters.

22:27:36 mircea_popescu: save on the heat.

22:27:46 asciilifeform: bbbut what if spinnin' round & round, 'fooor piglet'

22:27:56 asciilifeform: !s for piglet

22:27:57 assbot: 5 results for 'for piglet' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=for+piglet

22:30:38 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379720 << surprisingly close read of the logs by...whom now?

22:30:38 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:24:17; thestringpuller: LOL >> "Don't forget Mr Popescu, who loves to harp on about how Bitcoin is not for the unwashed masses, just two weeks ago had a hugely embarrassing fiasco where he revealed he hadn't the faintest idea how Bitcoin transactions work.

22:30:39 mats: i personally like burst

22:30:50 mats: but the complexity it adds, usually isn't worth it

22:31:32 ben_vulpes: what, but the complexity of stack randomization /is/?!

22:32:16 mats: i don't make the rules, man

22:33:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 120000 @ 0.000087 = 10.44 BTC [-]

22:34:07 asciilifeform: l0l l00ks like jurov found a buyer

22:34:51 ben_vulpes: 87?

22:34:52 ben_vulpes: wow

22:35:02 ben_vulpes: am i missing an order of magnitude here?

22:36:02 ben_vulpes: holy shit snsa listed in 2013

22:36:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 260000 @ 0.000085 = 22.1 BTC [-]

22:36:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc you were there

22:37:06 ben_vulpes: at the bell even

22:37:56 jurov: actually, 85 :(

22:38:14 asciilifeform: if i had an account, i'd buy it off him !

22:38:19 mats: i bought those

22:39:00 jurov: may they serve you well

22:40:24 mats: did you take a loss selling those

22:43:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226316 @ 0.0005557 = 125.7638 BTC [-] {5}

22:44:04 jurov: mats, guess what was the ipo price?

22:46:02 mats: 9980?

22:46:31 jurov: close, but nope.

22:47:01 jurov: 2013-10-17 08:16 Buy xxxxx@0.0001

22:48:01 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> bbbut what if spinnin' round & round, 'fooor piglet' << i imagine you're exactly on the mark. cartoon army, designing weapons for cartoon usage.

22:48:12 mats: ic

22:48:22 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> holy shit snsa listed in 2013 <<< well yes, was gonna be xmas remember!

22:49:49 jurov: <asciilifeform> if i had an account, i'd buy it off him ! << iirc the person that holds your coins, does have an account? just ash zer to place teh order.

22:49:59 jurov: *ask

22:50:28 asciilifeform: jurov: i think this would violate his monastic oath or at least give him indigestion

22:51:14 jurov: imo you gave him some indigestions already

22:51:31 jurov: s/gave/caused/

22:53:07 BingoBoingo: Indigestions are an imprecise thing that over time increases risks of things like Barret's oesophagus

22:53:26 BingoBoingo: Hard to tell exactly when too many indigestions happen

23:05:09 mircea_popescu: who are you two talking about ?

23:05:50 mircea_popescu: "NervousNorbert [score hidden] 4 hours ago Consensus on increasing the maximum participant limit was not reached." << ahahaha top keks.

23:11:42 mircea_popescu: "The gang's downfall came when Aaron Shane Murphy and Uzair Patel, both 29, were stopped by police in a taxi in Newham in June 2015."

23:12:07 mircea_popescu: orly, check that out, airstrip one got taxi stopping policies nao ?

23:16:49 mircea_popescu: "I recently moved to the Pacific Northwest from Baltimore. What partly impelled the move was being beaten up by a black guy who I had grappled with and held down after he was chasing his girlfriend with a baseball bat. His GF and another woman went nuts, beating me as he and I grappled on the ground with me holding the bat with both arms. To shut them up, I stupidly rolled the bat away and let him get up. He promptly d

23:16:49 mircea_popescu: ecked me, kicked the hell out of my head (concussion and bleeding). I was very lucky. "

23:16:50 mircea_popescu: awww.

23:26:15 mircea_popescu: "These yuppie ?blockbuster? musicians, who think they can save those who hate them and put their women and children in danger to assuage their own misplaced feminist guilt and world-saving bitch complex, should be staked out, skinned, have their eyelids pinned back, and left for the crows."

23:26:34 mircea_popescu: or, alternatively, they could be just left to do what they do, which is both cheaper and conceptually cleaner.

23:27:55 mircea_popescu: in somewhat related news, http://49.media.tumblr.com/ae3ff8150c429b9e246ef7088cf1d5a1/tumblr_mxjvf37IWX1symi8mo1_400.gif

23:27:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qlp5ir )

23:32:43 mircea_popescu: me: 'the measure of a state's sovereignty and quality of life therein is the degree to which it can deny benefits to outsiders' << certainly works to "why is B,TMSR~ superior to USG and necessarily a replacement thereof".

23:34:10 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nevertheless, bear in mind that there is a catastrophic difference between "derp needing" and "dude trying to contribute".

23:41:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66432 @ 0.00056091 = 37.2624 BTC [+] {3}

23:42:32 hanbot: <mircea_popescu> me: 'the measure of a state's sovereignty and quality of life therein is the degree to which it can deny benefits to outsiders' << certainly works to "why is B,TMSR~ superior to USG and necessarily a replacement thereof". << to borrow a recent parallel from copypaste, couldn't the same be said of best korea?

23:43:12 mircea_popescu: sure. on the scale of sovereignity north korea is doing pretty well, too bad they're stupid.

23:43:37 hanbot: admittedly i was looking moar at the "quality of life" bit

23:43:37 mircea_popescu: ie, much easier to "deny benefits to outsiders" when nobody wants the benefits you offer.

23:43:55 hanbot: mhm

23:44:40 mircea_popescu: well, "my son, we're bums but you'll inherit all of it" sorta degree. no loss in quality of life there.

23:45:52 phf: so only thing i did with timestamps in logs is add milliseconds to the log printer (to add necessary precisions to graphs). i'm pretty sure i discovered that blockchain height served as well in my case (produced similar shapes with none of the "laptop went to sleep" noise), but i was looking specifically at the number of block send/recv retries

23:46:11 mircea_popescu: is this in a patch ?

23:46:37 phf: milliseconds are

23:46:53 hanbot: i wonder how often that's more tolerable than eg cazalla's worse-off-than-grandpa plight.

23:47:25 phf: but the patch got lost, between punkman taking over logging improvements and the v-ification

23:47:49 mircea_popescu: hanbot should be universal. if i find any thing worse than in the time of the predecessors i'm bringing out the machine guns and fire throwers as a matter of principle. and i want the skies bathed in the screams of the innocent and the blood of gutted babes, also as a matter of principle.

23:48:10 mircea_popescu: phf what sorry state of sin is this!

23:58:39 phf: i can bring it forward, it wasn't included in the v release, nor did anybody ask about it, so i assumed it's not needed