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Transcript for 23-09-2015, 1116 lines:

00:00:14 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Seriously of you can't affor quality student, just buy more poor students

00:01:55 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-09-2015#1282992 << what's the logic here...?

00:01:55 assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 23:09:41; mircea_popescu: no, they won't. they'll sit there and cry.

00:13:19 shinohai: https://twitter.com/TechCrunch/status/646464253520662528 <<< looking like that, I'll bet she could disrupt damn near anything.

00:19:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's tyhe logic where!

00:19:51 mircea_popescu: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/22/controversial-drug-ceo-was-accused-of-serious-harassment.html << so it begins.

00:19:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LMzleT )

00:20:26 mircea_popescu: i bet the "controversial" ceo now uses his vast wealth to fucking hang the entire troop of assholes, including the da involved.

00:20:35 mircea_popescu: o wait. different film.

00:21:59 cazalla: shinohai, tranny?

00:22:44 phf: no an american woman

00:23:45 *: BingoBoingo in other news is finally trolling craigslit looking for an affordable heavy bag + stand combo

00:25:43 cazalla: stands are shit BingoBoingo put a pole and bracket up in ya backyard and hang off that

00:25:52 mircea_popescu: ^

00:26:34 BingoBoingo: This is going in a basement space where a prior retard fucking drywalled the basement ceiling

00:27:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61250 @ 0.00076138 = 46.6345 BTC [+] {3}

00:32:44 shinohai: cazalla: could be, does have that Catlyn Jenner look going on.

00:35:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45766 @ 0.00075296 = 34.46 BTC [-] {3}

00:38:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54750 @ 0.00074798 = 40.9519 BTC [-] {3}

00:43:30 deedbot-: [fraudsters] Very Bad Things - http://fraudsters.com/2015/very-bad-things/

00:53:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20170 @ 0.00076163 = 15.3621 BTC [+] {3}

00:55:35 danielpbarron: https://archive.is/SQvAX << doesn't this just sum up all of progressivism? "I have an excuse as to why I can't do X, but I'm sure someone else has it covered anyway."

00:55:36 assbot: BECK$ on Twitter: "@danielpbarron I'm personally too busy to kick your ass but don't worry I'm sure someone else will" ... ( http://bit.ly/1WhlLYq )

00:57:47 *: BingoBoingo working on making sure someone else won't when it comes to kicking Bingo's ass

01:00:55 *: BingoBoingo after last outing with steel pole in the back yard picked up a pair of sweet gel bag gloves today. The steel pole felt like butterfly kisses wearing them.

01:23:09 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

01:23:16 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 231.05, vol: 19360.19909638 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 228.727, vol: 9050.40035 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 232.38, vol: 19624.07560481 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 233.75, vol: 1.0114 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 234.764763, vol: 22527.21820000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 228.6, vol: 155.15770741 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 232.695018096, vol: 49.36617696 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

01:36:02 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283048 << i didn't see any mention of a da

01:36:02 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 00:20:26; mircea_popescu: i bet the "controversial" ceo now uses his vast wealth to fucking hang the entire troop of assholes, including the da involved.

01:36:21 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-09-2015#1282482 << daily, as a tea timer, albeit the worst tea timer there ever was (doesn't work X% of the time due to requiring internet connection)

01:36:21 assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 14:34:46; mircea_popescu: does anyone even use that thing ?

01:36:58 asciilifeform: also usg giveth, usg taketh away. a 'pharma ceo' has so much as one cent purely by the good graces of hitler - who helpfully keeps penny-a-pill indian generics mostly out of u.s. market

01:37:45 asciilifeform: why this particular schmuck was chosen as the whipping boy of the day, i do not know. but tlp's dictum 'if you're reading it, it's for you' comes to mind.

01:38:26 BingoBoingo: ;;more

01:38:27 gribble: 232.300052767

01:38:53 asciilifeform: but in the purely physical sense, a $10 (not even speaking of $1000) pill of ANY CONTENTS WHATSOEVER makes precisely as much sense as a $1M software package.

01:39:03 asciilifeform: i.e. something which can only exist at usg gunpoint.

01:39:18 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: SInce it is old news but super trending I'll have a piece on the particulars of this FDA sanctioned pharma racket in the next day or so

01:40:02 BingoBoingo: But the short story for #b-a regs is this a a corn problem. If you can you must, and the FDA says you must,

01:40:36 asciilifeform: consider, where other than pharma does cost have no impact whatsoever on demand ?

01:41:46 asciilifeform: my current understanding re: the firm from the link is that it specialized in ultra-low-demand items for which there is unlikely to be competition from foreign generics. clever.

01:42:55 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'must' my arse. fda as it exists today is a creature of the pharma cartels.

01:45:44 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: COnsider though that this particular pharma slug is taking the other pharma slugs demanda upon the FDA to their logical extreme

01:46:05 *: asciilifeform failed to parse this sentence

01:46:13 BingoBoingo: He realizes that he has an easy button to get ALL of the dolalrs

01:46:31 BingoBoingo: So why not get all of the Do-lolars?

01:46:51 asciilifeform: the 'easy button' normally leads to 'have problems'

01:46:54 BingoBoingo: Only scandal is he is a young buck taking the old stags to task

01:47:07 BingoBoingo: And yes the is "having problems"

01:47:23 BingoBoingo: But it is also the ONLY thing one can do

01:48:04 BingoBoingo: Imagine if someone bough a symbolics machine or Unix 7 and asserted re-Patent rights?

01:48:26 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why imagine? it happened !

01:48:37 asciilifeform: ;;google darl mcbride

01:48:38 gribble: Darl McBride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darl_McBride; Darl McBride | LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/darl-mcbride/0/889/95b; Darl McBride - Wikiquote: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Darl_McBride

01:48:42 BingoBoingo: And in pharma when it happens they have steroids

01:49:16 BingoBoingo: Darl McBride's sphicter was chronically relaxed, prolly too much botox.

01:49:30 asciilifeform: the 'quotes' esp. lulzy.

01:50:29 BingoBoingo: Pharma has had a few more "soft power" understandings. Like if the Jews in Israel at Teva can break even on a generic it isn'r really abandoned and such.

01:51:55 BingoBoingo: The differnce between Darl and this pharma lol-cow is all this one does is use the rules exactly as intended without ambiguity

01:55:03 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1199/the-eth-scam-wont-see-2016/#b24

01:55:06 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ~this~ particular l0lcow wouldn't even be a lolcow if he hadn't insisted on trolling all of usa with cameras rolling

01:56:09 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure. Darl was a lolcow because he forced his position on ambiguity. This one though lolcows by hitting everything and only those things he is explicitly allowed to.

01:56:37 *: BingoBoingo recomends if one gets malaria one ought to do so outside the US at the moment

01:56:56 asciilifeform: this is the most galling thing, to civilians. recall mircea_popescu's 'pound of flesh' article.

01:58:38 BingoBoingo: Sure, it galls at first them you heal... and the scar galls

02:00:02 asciilifeform: the one thing you can be sure of it that at the end of the day the 'answer' will be something like 'pillz cost too much, need moar obamacare'

02:00:34 BingoBoingo: Or Obamacare breaks... pretty sure the goal here was breaking Obolacare

02:00:53 asciilifeform: rather than 'nuke intellectualpropertyism, dekulakize and publicly behead everyone who profited from its imposition'

02:01:11 BingoBoingo: But this is not the first dirt cheap drug to turn uranium plated by any stretch

02:01:22 asciilifeform: nope.

02:01:38 asciilifeform: it's a piece of orchestrated hysteria to draw fire away from the serious operators.

02:01:53 BingoBoingo: Uric acid, still expensive after being under a dollar per arbitrary time span supply

02:03:54 asciilifeform: know what the crowning glory here is? no drug whatsoever in an ~actual free market~ could ever cost $100/pill. it costs less than this to pay ukraininan chemists to make $arbitrarycompound.

02:04:08 asciilifeform: i watched it happen, on usg tax dollar no less.

02:04:53 asciilifeform: with no bureaucratic obstacles in the way (Officially not intended to be fed to human) - can get ANYTHING made for $20K or so, in Kg+ qty.

02:05:30 asciilifeform: so the 'disease is rare, 1mg pill costs $100' thing is a crock of shit.

02:06:58 asciilifeform: being able to charge $100/mg for an organic sludge is a crown concession.

02:07:22 BingoBoingo: Of course

02:07:26 asciilifeform: based wholly on the presence of armed thugs enforcing 'intellectual property'

02:08:16 BingoBoingo: Anything necessarily more expensive must be injected because monoclonal or delicate living origins

02:08:19 asciilifeform: the $100/mg thing was grudgingly accepted by many thinking people on account of 'must fund RESEARCH!111!!111'

02:08:24 asciilifeform: but the 'research' is not happening.

02:08:29 asciilifeform: hasn't been, for a decade or more.

02:08:38 asciilifeform: and this is more or less universally known at this point.

02:09:06 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha, i specifically said 'pill'

02:09:20 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Hence the caveat

02:10:26 BingoBoingo: But even now those things are going from treatments for the rare and debilitating to treatments for the common and hammy

02:12:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at some point, the 'intellectual property RIGHTS!!!!11!!!1!1' idiots will get what they have been so loudly begging for: underground pharma labz in every town.

02:12:16 asciilifeform: retool from meth.

02:13:13 asciilifeform: of course, i won't know when this has happened, you'll have to ask somebody who lives on the 'tide usd' planet.

02:19:11 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Consider bupropion, the one USG blessed mood regulating dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Simple chlorinated amphetamine on the ring. I wonder more who can't make it than who can

02:20:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22533 @ 0.00076219 = 17.1744 BTC [+] {4}

02:51:27 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron watch the guy being like 112 lbs and really awkward too

02:51:31 mircea_popescu: !up psztorc

02:52:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> why this particular schmuck was chosen as the whipping boy of the day << was in the news recently, '87 born catamite of "tiger fund" gonzo increased price of some shitty expired patent medicine nobody else was manufacturing because us is as springy as a dead halibut.

02:56:06 BingoBoingo: Actuall rather commonly used medicine. Part of 'Malarone' the premier anti-malarial cocktail.

02:56:26 BingoBoingo: But now the solo drug costs more than the combo.

02:57:09 BingoBoingo: Never mind the cheaper combo is more effective against what either treats and gets literally all the save-Africa subsidies

02:58:03 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> but the 'research' is not happening. << this is a point.

02:59:06 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> But even now those things are going from treatments for the rare and debilitating to treatments for the common and hammy << exactl;y, and these two go together. we're now at the point where "important" vaccines for purely imaginary conditions are being pushed out. srsly, some people get nonspecific pain from what may be a viral infection ?

02:59:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00076182 = 12.4177 BTC [-]

03:00:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah, now most of the new "biologics" released in the US are for various forms of "autoimmune" arthritis but not really.

03:00:51 BingoBoingo: They work more on repetative load injuries.

03:01:08 mircea_popescu: one of the most lucrative and so often targetted by pharma spaces is where doctors go "dunno, let's try this. and that. and then see."

03:02:04 mircea_popescu: that's 100% of psycho, and most of nonspeciffic pain (which only exists because gps wanted a loophole to prescripe medocal social security to healthy men) and then "old age/shit habits" diseases. like some arthitis types (aka gout)./

03:02:57 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 23.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1199/the-eth-scam-wont-see-2016/#b25

03:03:41 mircea_popescu: annnnnd it takes 1st place.

03:03:59 BingoBoingo: Dayum

03:05:24 BingoBoingo: But seriously the big malingering complaint is now labeled "fibromyalgia" and there is actually a therapy that keeps these hams sated. Stong compounded mixes of tricyclic antidepressants and NSAIDS.

03:05:51 BingoBoingo: Then the knees fail mechanically due to the load they bear.

03:06:46 mircea_popescu: that's just the world being unfair.

03:07:04 BingoBoingo: Gravity has been and always will be the ultimate shitlord

03:07:22 mircea_popescu: totally unselfware without a hint of irony

03:07:23 mircea_popescu: and ignorant.

03:07:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36600 @ 0.00076265 = 27.913 BTC [+] {3}

03:09:04 mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, poloniex lost its 50% eth trading marketshare. now #3, #1 being something "gatecoin"

03:09:24 BingoBoingo: lol

03:09:40 BingoBoingo: Seems the Bitbet even slowed a bit after the bet.

03:09:53 BingoBoingo: Some folk must really want to fuck mircea_popescu

03:10:04 mircea_popescu: slowed ?

03:13:54 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah, haven't seen any deca BTC bets since the qntra

03:14:11 BingoBoingo: Oh, I guess that was oe

03:14:14 BingoBoingo: *one

03:14:41 *: BingoBoingo in draft mode

03:16:56 mircea_popescu: originally it looked like the aim is to go for 5:1

03:17:16 mircea_popescu: kinda been degrading tho, curious if there's the required 1-200 btc left in the eth cheerleader camp to get it back on target.

03:19:05 mircea_popescu: lkol wait. 21 thing won't accept btc for its "product" ?

03:19:07 mircea_popescu: bwahahaha

03:20:47 mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3lvsjd/prepare_yourselves_for_the_assault_on_ethereum_by/

03:20:49 assbot: Prepare yourselves for the assault on Ethereum by certain hostile elements within bitcoin community. : ethereum ... ( http://bit.ly/1YBdAZ1 )

03:21:11 mircea_popescu: "certain elements" are "attacking" the re-ripple thing by pointing out that it's stupid and pointless. TO THE BARRICADES!1

03:22:41 BingoBoingo: Seriously

03:22:58 BingoBoingo: !up psztorc You know you dun got voice nao

03:23:29 psztorc: Salutations

03:23:40 BingoBoingo: Welcome

03:24:01 mircea_popescu: https://medium.com/@timothyjcoulter/truffle-tricks-for-ethereum-development-dispelling-8-myths-first-impressions-880f66bf3320 << this is the lol of all fucking time.

03:24:03 assbot: Truffle Tricks for Ethereum Development: Dispelling 8 Myths & First Impressions — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1PqLPfD )

03:24:22 mircea_popescu: recommended reading for asciilifeform just because i know he's a livresque masochist.

03:24:24 BingoBoingo: psztorc: Appologies for not replying to your email with wisdom, but my momma told me not to talk to strangers

03:24:36 mircea_popescu: hi psztorc . who're you ?

03:24:45 psztorc: I suppose I'm a "certain hostile element with bitcoin community".

03:24:54 mircea_popescu: o you are ? which one ?

03:25:19 psztorc: The second one in the Eth link you just posted

03:26:21 mircea_popescu: ie Paul Sztorc ?

03:26:29 mircea_popescu: might be an idea to get your key reg'd with gribble.

03:26:30 psztorc: That's me.

03:26:42 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He's got some sidechain betting thing, but more than that dun liek huffing ether

03:26:44 mircea_popescu: and by gribble i mean assbot.

03:27:08 mircea_popescu: "Truthcoin is my ambitious project to create a trustless P2P prediction-marketplace. This is possible because, unlike most marketplaces, the end product of a prediction market (PM) is information. "

03:27:10 mircea_popescu: oh another one of those.

03:27:29 psztorc: The last one.

03:27:45 mircea_popescu: you understand the fundamental problem with trying to create a "decentralized market" do you ?

03:27:52 psztorc: I hope so.

03:28:41 mircea_popescu: jesus reddit is retarded. omg not even wrong where to even start /me abandons the entire thread.

03:28:56 mircea_popescu: psztorc do tell ?

03:29:35 psztorc: The fundamental problem is tying the market to reality, without invoking a trusted 3rd party.

03:30:09 mircea_popescu: well no. the fundamental problem is that the function of a market is to centralize trade. decentralized market is like cool boiler.

03:30:51 psztorc: Can't a decentralized market centralize trade?

03:31:05 psztorc: One is a process, the other an outcome.

03:31:37 mircea_popescu: this argument is not even apparent if people were spherical cows in a vacuum. but as people are, it's impossible to obtain an outcome by opposite process.

03:32:03 mircea_popescu: dja know of any example from nature where something like that happens ?

03:32:13 mircea_popescu: vex you gotta stop with the nick spam.

03:32:17 psztorc: Would you say that Bitcoin centralizes all transactions in one blockchain database?

03:32:53 mircea_popescu: depends where you're taking it. this could perhaps be said.

03:34:16 psztorc: When I say "decentralized", I mean it the same way Satoshi meant it: headless and immortal. The individual traders still all "meet" in one "place".

03:34:29 mircea_popescu: but bitcoin is in no sense a market.

03:34:30 psztorc: In the project I designed.

03:34:39 mircea_popescu: there is no meeting whatsoever involved.

03:34:52 mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why it actually is trustless. but also why it's irreversible.

03:35:37 psztorc: When I say meet, I mean same database.

03:35:55 mircea_popescu: but the "meet" in "market" has a different intension from "meet" as in "sql join".

03:36:14 mircea_popescu: in this sense, "the earth centralizes the imago-es of all astral bodies, as their light projection". nevertheless, the earth is not a black hole.

03:36:34 BingoBoingo: How a trusted third party could possibly be agreed upon though is among the most centralizing mechanisms possibru

03:36:54 mircea_popescu: to take a step out of the purest theory closer t oactual practice.

03:37:35 psztorc: You may be right about whatever you are talking about, but in Truthcoin the operations performed are almost exactly the same as existing Bitcoin transactions.

03:38:01 mircea_popescu: then why bother ?

03:38:38 psztorc: To enable people to use Bitcoin in markets, and bet on real world things.

03:38:57 psztorc: Why use BitBet?

03:38:58 mircea_popescu: but in the original terms. "in Truthcoin the operations performed are almost exactly the same as existing Bitcoin transactions".

03:39:13 mircea_popescu: well bitbet is plainly a central market for clearing risk.

03:39:49 psztorc: What "is" is a different question than what "is for".

03:40:07 mircea_popescu: ok. it's for clearing risk in a centrally-controlled environment.

03:42:12 mircea_popescu: (clearing, obviously, is a term of art, in finance. it's the process whereby definite items are recognized by others. very similar to the function of a torens title registrar, or the births book, or the military despatches.)

03:42:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00076274 = 15.5599 BTC [+]

03:43:46 psztorc: Are we still on "why bother"?

03:44:13 mircea_popescu: if you're satisfied with "why use bitbet"

03:45:56 psztorc: If you like to read, #1 of the lower 5 is about why I chose to create Truthcoin: http://www.truthcoin.info/papers/

03:45:57 assbot: Papers | Truthcoin: Making Cheap Talk Expensive ... ( http://bit.ly/1PqP1YA )

03:46:56 *: mircea_popescu goes in on the hope this won't be pdf.

03:47:06 gernika: Is it impossible to implement a public forum on a decentralized architecture, such as a dht?

03:47:15 mircea_popescu: heh. got a plaintext version psztorc ?

03:47:42 *: BingoBoingo too drunk for this

03:47:47 psztorc: Don't you ever miss all of the lovely pdf formatting?

03:48:00 mircea_popescu: gernika a) would you agree that the superset of this inquiry is the bbs and b) would you say it meets definitions of either "forum" or "decentralized" as you use them ?

03:48:10 mircea_popescu: psztorc haven't yet, no.

03:48:30 BingoBoingo: psztorc: No one really misses anything about pdf when they quit

03:48:36 psztorc: Well, I can pastebin it for you.

03:48:40 mircea_popescu: aite.

03:49:14 psztorc: http://pastebin.com/16sjgPXW

03:49:15 assbot: truthcoin-1 - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1PqPBp7 )

03:50:29 mircea_popescu: "What if you had access to the combined intellectual powers of all mankind? It would be easier for you to make decisions." << you know, not only this does not follow, but the contrary is actually recorded as anecdotal observation by pretty much all sources. like say russell.

03:50:30 gernika: mircea_popescu: I can see a bbs as a public forum, yes. The decentralization is not as clear to me, at least not in the way I used them. I only ever dialed into one.

03:51:38 gernika: and it had all the porn I needed.

03:51:42 mircea_popescu: heh.

03:51:53 mircea_popescu: but you will notice you downloading porn and the functioning of a market are unrelated.

03:52:16 mircea_popescu: in any case, the question here isn't whether you could stuff the heart of an ox, the guts of a pig and the lungs of a horse inside the skin of a skinned goose.

03:52:24 mircea_popescu: the question is whether the animal so obtained will quack.

03:53:23 mircea_popescu: !up psztorc

03:53:57 gernika: The problem I see is that there's no profit motive for the market owner, because there's no owner, so no one will drive the thing to work. Which I hope relates to your last point.

03:53:57 mircea_popescu: ""Whereas a stock market is a place to buy and sell shares of a corporation?s earnings, a Prediction Market (PM) is a place to buy and sell predictions. Valid predictions entitle their owner to $11"" << this, foir the record, is horrible writing. do not mix things so far apart the abstraction scale, it confuses idiots and it gives smart people the impression your abstractor really has very little breadth.

03:54:27 mircea_popescu: gernika it's a start, i'd say.

03:54:43 psztorc: That was actually a footnote. It was $1 in the pdf

03:54:56 mircea_popescu: why would it be a magic number and why would the number reference an undefined concept.

03:55:11 mircea_popescu: suppose i read this in 3030, at which point no fucking body knows what $ is, and we decide it stands for "trustcoin"

03:55:49 psztorc: I'm specifically choosing not to target the 3030 audience.

03:55:57 mircea_popescu: "The current market price of these tradable predictions can then be interpreted as the likelihood of the prediction coming true." << because, why ?

03:56:27 BingoBoingo: The paper honestly reads to me as BitBet ad copy

03:56:56 psztorc: Those statements are not original research...they're lifted from several mainstream scholars, econ textbooks, wikipedia "prediction markets" article.

03:57:01 BingoBoingo: Just with BitBet it is hard to lose to butthurt retards

03:57:26 mircea_popescu: lifted, no footnote ?

03:57:50 mircea_popescu: you're perhaps unfamiliar with the saying "traduttore, traditore".

03:58:02 mircea_popescu: careful what and whom you steal from, lest you get poisoned.

03:58:12 psztorc: Haha

03:58:31 psztorc: These are very basic concepts, not exactly plagiarism.

03:58:55 mircea_popescu: they are very basic INTELLECTUAL FASHIONS.

03:59:05 mircea_popescu: "When anyone can trade, no source of information is overlooked, and market forces balance

03:59:05 mircea_popescu: info-sources in a way that is consistently and unanimously acceptable." << like that.

03:59:32 psztorc: I assume you don't agree?

03:59:33 mircea_popescu: none of this stands to actual scrutiny, but hey, peopel got enamoured with whatever that irish thing was called, and it got to die a hero's death so we'll hear about it like we wouldn't have heard if it just died naturally.

03:59:35 mircea_popescu: i do not agree.

04:00:16 mircea_popescu: but leaving aside the entire "prediction market" thing, lemme try and find the actual coin discussion.

04:00:29 psztorc: What type of thing would change your mind?

04:00:35 mircea_popescu: " Television has a gift for simplifying and communicating ideas" << o lordy.

04:00:49 mircea_popescu: ok, indulge me. give me an example of an idea that was so communicated by television.

04:01:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29811 @ 0.00076274 = 22.738 BTC [+]

04:01:19 psztorc: What follows that section are youtube videos to tv clips about prediction markets.

04:01:40 mircea_popescu: so... uh...

04:01:55 mircea_popescu: "i once got formed an idea while in front of the tv ergo tv has a gift" ?

04:02:24 psztorc: That sentence is not a claim that I make.

04:02:39 mircea_popescu: ah intrade there we go.

04:02:42 psztorc: It is in the pdf formatting that I am continuing my explanation of prediction markets in a different way.

04:03:32 mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin is P2P software. It was not ever designed for other people to store your money; it was designed for you to store your own money." << can you prove this ?

04:03:40 mircea_popescu: or at least shore it up past the nude declaratory thing ?

04:03:55 psztorc: You disagree with that?

04:03:57 *: BingoBoingo declares bread tripe, retires

04:03:58 mircea_popescu: yes.

04:04:17 psztorc: What exactly do you disagree with?

04:04:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00076181 = 18.5882 BTC [-] {2}

04:04:31 mircea_popescu: o, you want the list ? mkay.

04:05:03 mircea_popescu: i disagree with the notion that whether bitcoin was designed for people to hold own money or opm follows from bitcoin being p2p ; that there is a way to differentiate between opm and yom. and other things

04:05:55 psztorc: You can't tell the difference between money you own and money that other people own?

04:06:04 mircea_popescu: there's nothing magical about money being "your own". the situation where you own house A, and live in house B which is identical but you rent ; and the situation where you own house A and live in house A is imaginary.

04:06:27 mircea_popescu: im sorry. the DIFFERENCE between the two situations is imaginary is what i mean.

04:07:00 BingoBoingo: Pro Idiotas!

04:07:11 psztorc: Replace "own" with "control" if you like.

04:07:32 mircea_popescu: and thje best example to verify this is, a situation where you and another guy sit in a bar for the space it takes to drink two drafts each.

04:07:48 mircea_popescu: whether each pays his own each time in silence, or you buy one round and he buys another round is nil.

04:08:02 mircea_popescu: this is why money is important, this annullment of a perceived difference.

04:08:34 psztorc: What I wrote has nothing to do with fungibility.

04:08:54 mircea_popescu: as the saying goes around here, you might not be interested in fungibility, but that doesn't prevent it from being interested in you.

04:09:11 psztorc: Again, I am interested in fungibility.

04:09:17 psztorc: But I didn't write about it in that paper.

04:09:23 mircea_popescu: "The Bitcoin businesses that oppose this intent by holding customer funds (for example the currency exchanges) lose those funds regularly." << except mpex never did. and bitbet never did. and so on.

04:09:29 mircea_popescu: together these make up a good 90% of bitcoin busiensses.

04:09:45 mircea_popescu: now, feel free to generalize on the remainder 10%, but it is not unlike saying "men are evil and should be locked up".

04:09:54 mircea_popescu: also an intellectual fashion in some circles.

04:11:23 psztorc: Really?

04:11:56 mircea_popescu: yes.

04:12:00 mircea_popescu: "Although businesses can prove their solvency, proof of future-solvency is impossible, and even solvent Bitcoin PM-businesses would be able to steal funds by trading on and then reporting incorrect prediction outcomes." << this is a feckless misstatement of the situation. a centralized business is predicated on the trustworthyness of its living owner. whose word is, to repurpose a JPM quote, "worth more than all the bo

04:12:01 mircea_popescu: nds in Christendom".

04:12:32 mircea_popescu: (do you happen to be familiar with the exchange i'm referencing there ?)

04:12:49 psztorc: I know that you own and operate MPEX

04:12:56 mircea_popescu: no i meant the jpm quote.

04:12:59 psztorc: and of course I'm familiar with BitBet

04:13:28 psztorc: I'm familiar with some of JPM's history

04:15:54 psztorc: How do you square your 90% figure against MtGox's loss of 850,000 Bitcoins.

04:16:34 mircea_popescu: the proposition that mtgox was a bitcoin business is tenuous.

04:16:46 psztorc: My understanding was that MPEX's volume was much lower than that, let alone total stored.

04:16:57 mircea_popescu: you don't think walmart is a tide business for instance, do you ?

04:17:06 psztorc: No.

04:17:23 psztorc: But I think that all Bitcoin exchanges are Bitcoin businesses.

04:17:23 mircea_popescu: moreover, mtgox mostly "lost" money it never had.

04:17:30 mircea_popescu: on the basis of what ?

04:18:26 psztorc: It is a question of definition...I chose to define it that way.

04:18:30 psztorc: What definition do you use?

04:20:12 mircea_popescu: well, for starters, they priced bitcoin in dollars not dollars in bitcoin.

04:20:16 psztorc: And BitPay claims to process over 100,000 Bitcoin per month

04:20:37 mircea_popescu: these claims must be novel. ever since they forgot to mention how shockingly little they processed for "black friday"

04:20:38 psztorc: that's a lot more than MPEX's volume

04:20:57 mircea_popescu: but no, the various hanger ons trying to insinuate themselves in bitcoin do not by this desire actually become part of the thing.

04:21:24 psztorc: And your definition is?

04:21:30 mircea_popescu: anyway : consider that when mp said mtgox goes away, mtgox actually went away.

04:21:48 mircea_popescu: much to the disbelief of the entire collected "foundation" & assorted jesuses, captains of industry and whatnots.

04:22:49 mircea_popescu: the closest i ever came to stating a definition was in this 2012 article : http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-politics-of-bitcoin/

04:22:50 assbot: The politics of Bitcoin on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1K07c9f )

04:24:04 mircea_popescu: !up psztorc

04:24:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, the jpm thing is more important, so let's get back to that for a second. the matter was put to him, in a congressional hearing, "Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?"

04:24:42 psztorc: I'm afraid I couldn't find the definition.

04:24:44 mircea_popescu: and the responses came rather informatively :

04:24:48 mircea_popescu: "No sir, the first thing is character."

04:24:48 mircea_popescu: "Before money or property?"

04:24:48 mircea_popescu: "Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it...Because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom."

04:24:55 mircea_popescu: there is in fact no way to substitute for this.

04:25:09 mircea_popescu: the notion that "proving" "solvency" which is to say, having money may somehow buy character, and on it trust.

04:25:12 mircea_popescu: this is delusional.

04:25:25 psztorc: Of course, as I'm sure you know, "credit" comes from the latin "cred-" for "belief/faith"

04:25:32 mircea_popescu: the only thing "proofs" will do is make people optimize for the exam. that is all.

04:25:38 mircea_popescu: aha.

04:26:28 psztorc: And the sentence I wrote was to explain exactly why "proofs of solvency" are insufficient (which you have just restated)

04:26:43 mircea_popescu: alright.

04:28:51 mircea_popescu: "Although Bitcoin does not solve our PM problems, it demonstrates that a blockchain can provide scalable, censorship-resistant, and trustless solutions. Blockchain solutions also generate efficiency by cutting out middlemen and avoiding overhead costs (no brick-and-mortar, compliance, administration, etc.)." << this is miserable. what exactly is "solutions" supposed to mean ? and more importantly : the blockchain settl

04:28:51 mircea_popescu: ement device is BY FAR the most expensive, cumbersome and unwieldy mechanism for settlement ever devised. it was not even feasible to contemplate before computing and major bandwidth was available.

04:29:05 mircea_popescu: the entire "bitcoin is efficient" thing is very 2010s naivete. it is anything but.

04:29:18 mircea_popescu: it's ironclad, sure. but a tank has not very good fuel economy.

04:29:51 psztorc: For a given level of security, the payments are now cheaper.

04:30:06 psztorc: Also, I'm sure you've heard of the Lightning Network.

04:30:34 mircea_popescu: ok, sure, for a given level, as long as that level is very high, they are in fact cheaper.

04:30:47 mircea_popescu: this is not what usually is meant by eficiency.

04:30:48 psztorc: Well we have to compare apples to apples don't we?

04:31:01 mircea_popescu: best specify what apples we're comparing.

04:31:03 mircea_popescu: anyway.

04:31:06 psztorc: Hey, when you wanted to read Satoshi's pdf whitepaper, did you like ask a friend to print it out for you or something?

04:31:11 mircea_popescu: "My design was able to solve a few other PM-problems as well. Any user can create a market about anything, removing the dual-requirement that a PM-administrator must not only be trustworthy, but also share your prediction-interests. Market scoring rule technology ensures that trading volume is irrelevant, and traders will always be able make a trade updating the price to their estimation (even if they are the only trad

04:31:11 mircea_popescu: er)." << dja understand the concept of liquidity ?

04:31:22 mircea_popescu: because if i want to sink your chances, understand, all i need is to quote this and snicker.

04:31:37 mircea_popescu: suppose you're in a VC office trying to close a deal. and i drop by to take the guy out to golf.

04:31:48 mircea_popescu: and you're like, almost there, and all i do is recite that and laugh. you're out on your ass.

04:31:53 mircea_popescu: dja understand this ?

04:31:58 psztorc: No

04:32:03 mircea_popescu: ok. what is liquidity ?

04:32:30 psztorc: Loss of common knowledge of an asset's valuation.

04:32:40 psztorc: Gain/loss*

04:33:02 mircea_popescu: uhm. what ungodly sort of post structuralist lacanian approach to finance is this supposed to be!

04:33:27 mircea_popescu: fiat, delta knowledge on valuation. i doubtr you'll find anyone who even will entertain the approach, within finance. but moving on :

04:33:46 mircea_popescu: whence in the everloving fuck will you summon into existence counters for all the solo traders trading with no one ?

04:34:52 psztorc: That isn't post structuralism... PS is when the audience is supposedly more important than the author's text or intent.

04:35:09 psztorc: This has nothing to do with that.

04:35:10 mircea_popescu: lol

04:35:25 psztorc: I could link to a pdf on market scoring rules

04:35:31 psztorc: or an Excel spreadsheet

04:35:39 psztorc: but I'm guessing.....

04:35:57 mircea_popescu: or you could keep it simple, and explain why your excel spreadsheet isn't hard at work finding boyfriends for all the very fat lonely feminists out there.

04:36:03 mircea_popescu: they too got a knowledge, why isn't it being met ?

04:36:53 psztorc: MSRs are a formula which relate [1] the current quantity of outstanding shares (of mutually-exclusive states) to [2] an account filled with money.

04:37:01 mircea_popescu: by whom ?

04:37:36 psztorc: The traders, although you can put some money in the middle (which you'll lose) to create...

04:37:38 psztorc: ..

04:37:43 psztorc: your favorite word

04:37:47 psztorc: liquidity.

04:38:04 psztorc: The derivative of [1] share quantity happens to be the prices.

04:38:28 asciilifeform: i'd like to ask psztorc for a monopole magnet

04:38:30 psztorc: People propose updates to the share quantity, and can locally calculate how the account [2] would have to change.

04:38:45 asciilifeform: to be made after he is done with the counter-less market of solo traders.

04:38:53 asciilifeform: i could really use a monopole.

04:38:57 psztorc: If they pay the right amount, the trade goes through, otherwise it does not.

04:40:08 psztorc: Again this isn't something I made up, a physicist designed it like 15 years ago and it is currently being used in a few places. With play money at SciCast.

04:40:12 mircea_popescu: i'm kinda puzzled why the problem is not directly obvious.

04:40:34 mircea_popescu: psztorc let's try a mental experiment shall we ?

04:41:00 psztorc: I love experiments.

04:41:38 mircea_popescu: i mean srsly nobody cares if you came up with it or clark gable did. that's not at issue. and in general "original research" is even a topic only among the wikitards. it's not a legitimate consideration.

04:42:02 mircea_popescu: but as to the experiment : suppose your coin exists. suppose it has a total issued volume of 1mn coins. suppose i own them all, because i'm an asshole and i buy them all.

04:42:06 psztorc: A given claim is more likely to be false if only one person has assessed it.

04:42:12 mircea_popescu: this is false.

04:42:28 mircea_popescu: now, suppose i make a bet that tomorrow will be a solar eclipse.

04:42:38 mircea_popescu: the odds on this are dismal.

04:42:45 mircea_popescu: whence will the money come to liquidate my position ?

04:43:11 mircea_popescu: for instance : when i put 1 btc on the theory that ethereum dies by the end of the year, i got liquidated 5:1 within hours.

04:43:14 psztorc: From you, you'll win all of your own money back.

04:43:26 mircea_popescu: uh... i am not putting any money on No.

04:43:32 mircea_popescu: i bet all the coins on yes.

04:43:51 psztorc: If you really own all the coins, and you didn't put any in the middle, your first share of Yes will cost you 1.

04:44:01 psztorc: As will your 2nd and all the rest.

04:44:10 mircea_popescu: i really don't care what they cost. i am taking them all.

04:44:51 mircea_popescu: and i expect to see fair liquidity. say 10k to 1 against me.

04:45:00 mircea_popescu: where will ten billion coins spring for to liquidate my position ?

04:45:23 psztorc: You bought 1 mn coins.

04:45:27 mircea_popescu: aha.

04:45:34 psztorc: You traded 1 mn coins for 1 mn shares

04:45:38 mircea_popescu: aha.

04:45:51 psztorc: the answer was "Yes"

04:45:59 mircea_popescu: how the fuck would it be yes ?

04:46:00 psztorc: the 1 mn shares became worth 1 mn coins again.

04:46:05 mircea_popescu: there's not gonna be any sort of solar eclipse tomorrow.

04:46:08 mircea_popescu: the answer will be no.

04:46:14 psztorc: Well then you lose all of your coins...

04:46:17 mircea_popescu: to whom ?

04:46:38 psztorc: In that astonishingly unlikely scenario, no one.

04:46:50 mircea_popescu: did "no one" bet 10 bn coins on no ?

04:46:52 psztorc: They're just inaccessible.

04:47:02 psztorc: You're the only one who did anything.

04:47:11 mircea_popescu: so your liquidity has a problem in simply materializing from the, if you'll excuse the pun, the ether ?

04:47:57 mircea_popescu: understand, the scenario is in no sense astonishing or at all unlikely. the scenario repeats itself 100% of the time in your model, just, you're not usually well instrumented to notice this.

04:48:08 mircea_popescu: unlike in my example, where i scrubbed off all incidentals that may hide the matter.

04:48:27 psztorc: What exactly is your question?

04:49:54 *: asciilifeform observes that 'bugs' like this (if gaping hole in the chest of an idea can still be referred to as a 'bug'...) can live almost indefinitely long when there is a 'play money only' system such as ones mentioned earlier. simply because the 'unreasonable!11!!!11!!' folk with serious dough don't show up to clean their clocks.

04:50:01 mircea_popescu: this is not a question, it is a statement of fact. counterintuitively, perhaps (not sure why, but this only happens to some people), your addition of a coin to the problem has in fact worsened your efficiency, by introducing a significant friction factor.

04:50:14 mircea_popescu: all this in an attempt to solve poorly an already solved problem (solved by centralization).

04:51:17 mircea_popescu: ie, your attempt to get fatties laid already suffers from the "wide area low height" problem. putting a coin on top of this is just crushing it into oblivion, and going exactly tyhe opposite directionm of solving it.

04:51:39 psztorc: : )

04:51:51 psztorc: And yet, you change the subject so frequently.

04:52:03 psztorc: Do you believe that MSRs have a liquidity problem?

04:52:27 mircea_popescu: ie mortgage servicing rights ?

04:52:39 psztorc: Haha

04:52:53 psztorc: Market scoring rules, which we were just discussing.

04:53:08 psztorc: Feel free to use your fast knowledge to evade more questions : )

04:53:10 mircea_popescu: you know, the abbreviation happens to already have a meaning, in the space.

04:53:35 mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure what "market scoring rules" are. but by the excel reference i vaguely expect a bayesian atrocity.

04:53:59 psztorc: There are Bayesian versions

04:54:05 mircea_popescu: unsurprisingly.

04:54:20 mircea_popescu: understand : rules are generally powerless. the soviets had rules about how capital should be allocated.

04:54:28 mircea_popescu: didn't help them, especially once they didn't have the capital.

04:54:44 mircea_popescu: !up psztorc

04:54:47 psztorc: Almost as predictable as your question dodging.

04:54:59 mircea_popescu: how about you get registered in assbot so i can give you a rating so i don't have to keep doing the upping.

04:55:19 psztorc: I thought I had, like a year ago. Does it expire or something?

04:55:31 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-09-2015#1278736 << turns out that i was off the mark here. to wit : "Emissions system and fuel economy testing is conducted while a vehicle is placed on a dynamometer—think of it as a two big rollers or a treadmill—rather than driving on the road. The vehicle has only its driving wheels rolling (the front ones, in the case of VW vehicles). But the rear tires are station

04:55:31 assbot: Logged on 18-09-2015 18:54:21; pete_dushenski: either a) when anything plugs into the obd-ii port, or b) the whole thing is a parallel construction to keep ze germans at bay against tbtf 'domestics'

04:55:31 pete_dushenski: ary. The vehicle could otherwise interpret the test procedure as a dangerous situation or malfunction, activating traction control or stability control. By enabling a test mode, the vehicle will be able to operate during the test process. Once the test is complete and the car is restarted, the car reverts to its normal function. And once the cars are in on-the-road mode, nitrogen oxide levels increased by 10 to

04:55:31 pete_dushenski: 40 times the federal standard, according to the EPA."

04:55:35 mircea_popescu: well what do you want me to do. they don't, per se, have a liquidity problem, not being the sort of thing that may have a liquidityy problem. they simply have no relation to liquidity whatsoever.

04:55:42 mircea_popescu: !gettrust psztorc

04:55:43 assbot: psztorc is not registered in WoT.

04:55:54 mircea_popescu: it doesn't expire and it doesn't think you ever did.

04:56:24 pete_dushenski: ;;gettrust psztorc

04:56:24 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user pete_dushenski to user psztorc: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=pete_dushenski&dest=psztorc | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=psztorc | Rated since: never

04:56:28 psztorc: Well I tried to do it when I discovered your blog, which was like last autumn.

04:57:04 mircea_popescu: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets << see ethere it's a half minute's job.

04:57:05 assbot: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o )

04:57:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00076274 = 16.6277 BTC [+]

04:57:56 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: if (steering_shaft_turned_since_start()){while(1){pollute();}}

04:58:36 psztorc: !register F162C410

04:58:36 assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.

04:58:44 mircea_popescu: full size.

04:58:56 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: if (rear_wheels_stationary_while_front_wheels_in_motion()){while(1){pollute();}}

04:59:08 psztorc: !register 16C81597E76E86E6C01EF037AA4B3330F162C410

04:59:08 assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 16C81597E76E86E6C01EF037AA4B3330F162C410. This may take a few moments.

04:59:08 assbot: Key F162C410 / "Paul Sztorc (Truthcoin) <truthcoin@gmail.com>" successfully imported.

04:59:08 assbot: Registration successful.

04:59:37 mircea_popescu: !rate psztorc 1 Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else.

04:59:37 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0c3e5e073ec4f06d

04:59:57 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.psztorc.1:d864f2f84f1203a928a97576d8edb2bc1231e49eb6b35d20b368ed1070206df2

04:59:57 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for psztorc with note: Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else.

05:00:32 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-05-2014#657618 << hehe.

05:00:32 assbot: Logged on 03-05-2014 17:28:03; bitcoinpete: https://github.com/psztorc/Truthcoin <<goodness gracious

05:02:58 asciilifeform: 'Reputable: Truthcoin was designed by a Yale Statistician with degrees in the blockchain-relevant fields of econ, psychology, and mathematics, who has been passionate about prediction markets since long before Bitcoin was created. Truthcoin was reviewed (favorably) by Andrew Poelstra, sidechains-co-author and skeptical author of widely-circulated technical papers on cryptosystem stability. Gregory Maxwell has been aware of the

05:02:58 asciilifeform: project for months, Peter Todd is actively reviewing it. Unlike 100% of all Bitcoin 2.0 projects, there have (so far) been no standing complaints from these elite-skeptics. Roger Ver, who has famously invested-in and donated-to some of the most promising organizations and experiments in the Bitcoin space (from original Ripple, to BitPay, to Purse.io), and ignored many others, has endorsed this project financially.'

05:03:15 mircea_popescu: why this habit of no names btw ?

05:03:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47018 @ 0.00076274 = 35.8625 BTC [+] {2}

05:03:51 psztorc: I should edit that because PT did finish reviewing it.

05:04:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2732 @ 0.00076287 = 2.0842 BTC [+]

05:04:41 asciilifeform: '...when you [1] watch journalists lie on television, [2] have to deal with obviously dishonest politicians rising through an obviously-dysfunctional "democratic" process, [3] get beaten down by office politics at work, or [4] participate in any serious argument with anyone. The fiber optic cable of the 90's gave the global community a "nervous system", called the internet, but despite advances in filesharing ("memory"), and s

05:04:41 asciilifeform: earch / auto-complete ("pre-processing"), we don't yet have a "central" nervous system to advise our decisions...'

05:04:45 asciilifeform: for fuck's sake.

05:05:00 mircea_popescu: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-18/these-two-projects-are-racing-to-bring-election-gambling-back-for-2016 << the bloomberg piece is mildly amusing.

05:05:02 assbot: These Two Projects Are Racing to Bring Election Gambling Back for 2016 - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1Felstd )

05:06:07 psztorc: Yeah, I couldn't convince that guy that markets aren't gambling.

05:06:17 mircea_popescu: anyway. so what's the deal with the augur thing ?

05:06:36 pete_dushenski: psztorc: then what's gambling ?

05:06:38 mircea_popescu: of which i mostly know because some derps on reddit kept being butthurt at bitbet existing or somesuch.

05:06:40 psztorc: Stole from me and in the process of being poisoned.

05:07:28 psztorc: pete_dushenski: markets have prices which vary, producing useful info. gambling prices do not vary / static uselessness

05:07:33 mircea_popescu: "stole". you're an idea guy, correct ? how can you be stolen from ?

05:07:48 mircea_popescu: wait. wut ?! you ever watched a game of poker ?

05:07:52 mircea_popescu: of course the pot value varies.

05:08:13 psztorc: I don't consider poker gambling, personally.

05:08:15 pete_dushenski: mebbe psztorc is american and is used to 'betting lines' ?

05:08:23 psztorc: Too much skill.

05:08:26 mircea_popescu: ah. do you specifically mean the line betting scam ?

05:08:52 psztorc: https://github.com/truthcoin/truthcoin-cpp

05:08:53 assbot: truthcoin/truthcoin-cpp · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzRUD0 )

05:08:59 mircea_popescu: THAT's not betting. it's just like college ponzi, a scamatron.

05:09:40 mircea_popescu: "For millennia, there was suffering and misery. Can you imagine a world without music, or eyeglasses, or DayQuil?" << wut is dayquil ?

05:09:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: acetaminophen

05:10:03 asciilifeform: (curious choice)

05:10:04 pete_dushenski: psztorc: btw, even 'lines' change y'know. so... not static. so... time for a new definition !

05:10:05 mircea_popescu: and yes, /me grew up in a world without glasses. or divorce.

05:10:36 pete_dushenski: or maple syrup

05:10:52 *: pete_dushenski has no point here.

05:12:20 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-09-2015#1282406 << this, pointedly and as far as the eye can see, does NOT happen to be true.

05:12:20 assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 13:57:38; mircea_popescu: (which happens to be true, architects know a lot about how buildings may be, and for this reason nothing about buildings that are)

05:12:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00076287 = 15.8296 BTC [+]

05:12:37 pete_dushenski: what, like architects only design new buildings ex nihilo on greenfield sites ?

05:13:13 pete_dushenski: in alberta, sure, this is often the case, but this is the overwhelming exception

05:13:38 asciilifeform: https://www.realitykeys.com << atrocity, linked from earlier atrocity. apparently there is no shortage of attempted schemes to build this perpetuum mobile, the 'decentralized fact verifier machine'

05:13:39 assbot: Reality Keys - Facts about the future, cryptographic proof when they come true ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fem6qq )

05:14:04 pete_dushenski: architecture is as far more about existing buildings, topographies, and spaces as 'the new stuff'

05:14:17 pete_dushenski: *is far more

05:14:32 pete_dushenski: this is not only about renovations either

05:14:46 pete_dushenski: which is certainly a large chunk of the industry.

05:15:43 pete_dushenski: ultimately, architecture takes place in and around other architecture

05:15:50 pete_dushenski: it doesn't happen in a vacuum

05:18:45 pete_dushenski: 'modernisations', 'reskinning', and other forms of revamping that rely on the existing bones of a building are what keep cities alive and allow neighbourhoods to go through multiple phases of waxing and waning

05:19:36 pete_dushenski: without understanding the way buildings are, there's really no architecture.

05:20:15 pete_dushenski: sure, if you're fresh out of school, you know dick all, which is quite specifically why architects aren't 'licensed' until damn near a decade of practice

05:20:29 pete_dushenski: and even after that they're unlikely to lead a project

05:20:45 psztorc: Well, this has been fun but it is getting to be past my bedtime.

05:21:14 psztorc: I'll probably be back.

05:21:27 psztorc: Au revoir.

05:21:33 pete_dushenski: it's an old, hierarchical industry. architecture moves incredibly slowly. and quite rightly so as its products ~have~ to last decades, if not centuries.

05:21:37 pete_dushenski: psztorc: bon soir

05:24:34 pete_dushenski: http://mashable.com/2015/09/17/nutella-personalised-jars-australia/#MysMdBAttSkS << hey cazalla, you a nutella fan ?

05:24:34 assbot: Nutella should not let Australians personalise their own jars ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzTqF5 )

05:27:00 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-09-2015#1283039 << isn't this what hondajet is/was/will be for ?

05:27:00 assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 23:59:19; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-09-2015#1282971 << omg1111111111 i can't afford 'boeing' !! where is my NEED-BASED AID !??!!

05:27:16 pete_dushenski: !s hondajet

05:27:17 assbot: 0 results for 'hondajet' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hondajet

05:30:27 cazalla: pete_dushenski, nope but that is lulzy

05:36:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93100 @ 0.00076311 = 71.0455 BTC [+] {5}

05:41:41 cazalla: totally to be expected as well, which is probably why they did it to begin with

05:42:32 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski> and even after that they're unlikely to lead a project << maybe we'll allow your argument re civilised places. but in the us specifically, none of the stuff you discuss ever happens.

05:43:26 pete_dushenski: crazy.

05:43:48 pete_dushenski: who knew that canada was the cultural mecca of the americas ?

05:44:15 pete_dushenski: the apotheosis, if you will ;P

05:46:22 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell psztorc "BetsOfBitcoin Also old, yet closed Mysteriously. Funds stolen or missing. " << nothing mysterious about it. back in 2012 inaba was pushing the bfl scam, had a deal with the various "bet site operators" to allow bets on bfl delivery and then anull if it doesn't deliver. betsofbitcoin went for it, got called out for it, was dead after that. https://bitbet.us/bet/7/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-befor

05:46:22 assbot: BitBet - BFL will deliver ASIC devices before March 1st :: 791.29 B (47%) on Yes, 898.53 B (53%) on No | closed 2 years 7 months ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzV49K )

05:46:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:46:22 mircea_popescu: e-march-1st/ << bitbet's version, which cost bfl close to 1k btc, and which resulted in http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/ and which in turn resulted in a lot of clearing the air for legitimate operators in the space, and which is to some degree why asics even exist today as a private thing rather than coming a couple years later as a usg only thing.

05:46:23 assbot: The positive market effects of the delivery bet. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzV3mo )

05:47:47 mircea_popescu: and the "MtGox-failure, a failure that itself resulted in the loss of 6% of the circulating Bitcoin money supply." verbiage is particularly ill advised. the bitcoin mtgox lost never circulated for the most part, in that they were imaginary.

05:48:23 mircea_popescu: similarly, all sorts of derps on "bitfinex" and assorted scum are currently booking imaginary bitcoins they "will get in the future". except they don't, but their losses aren't of bitcoin, they're losses of "bitcoin",

05:52:26 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283371 << irlol!

05:52:26 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 04:32:30; psztorc: Loss of common knowledge of an asset's valuation.

05:52:50 mircea_popescu: ironically that can actually stand.

05:53:13 pete_dushenski: as a definition of liquidity ?!

05:53:47 mircea_popescu: myeah.

05:54:12 mircea_popescu: http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/contracts-oracles-sidechains/ << the treatment of "how to increase fictitious '''optionality''' through factual restrictions" is particularly scandalous.

05:54:14 assbot: Oracles are the Real Smart Contracts | Truthcoin: Making Cheap Talk Expensive ... ( http://bit.ly/1KzVE7m )

05:54:37 mircea_popescu: what if we don't fucking want to buy bullshit lucas crap at any price, and what if we would gladly pay for that crap to not even have the possibiklity to exist ?

05:54:53 mircea_popescu: what of all good films that never happened because that shit existed, and who pays for the damage britney spears did to music ?

05:55:00 mircea_popescu: fuck "total optionality" in the sense of, strip mall.

05:55:53 mircea_popescu: what if hollywood never existed altogether and i wouldn't have to explain to sane people from the future why the fuck exactly is it that every woman in every film has a permanently affixed bedspread righ above her tits for some reason ?

05:56:02 mircea_popescu: optionalitits my ass.

05:58:35 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: as to liquidity, hot damn if i don't see it now. only 6 hours into this yom kippur fast and i'm always too slow.

05:58:41 mircea_popescu: lol

05:58:45 *: pete_dushenski sends himself to a hungry slumber

06:01:09 mircea_popescu: anyway, the amusing thing if one actually reads the above linked thing is that the proponent of truthcoin objects that ethereum bets won't work because they're not bitbet. which is a correct point, but leaves him in the lurch.

06:05:38 mircea_popescu: "Ultimately, as Bitcoin takes over the internet, all non-Bitcoin projects (of any kind) will be treated with the ridicule afforded a US resident who tries to pay for his milk with Japanese yen. Eventually, interest in using a non-Bitcoin will fall to zero. Altcoins, even somehow-useful ones, don?t have a future." << and the proper link for this is, of course, http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-i

06:05:39 assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1j8LgNl )

06:05:39 mircea_popescu: s-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

06:05:46 mircea_popescu: more respek for actual experiments and their results.

06:06:35 mircea_popescu: "Getting the Good Authority In the old days, competition kept Authorities in line. For example, in The Merchant of Venice, Shylock is trying to get a contract enforced by an Authority:" << heh, look at that.

06:07:12 mircea_popescu: mkay, /me has had enough of this poorly sourcing of material. srsly, buncha quotes to tardipedia ? none to actual source material ? mmmkay.

06:09:33 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/virtuallylaw/status/645645873716850688 << check it out asciilifeform :D

06:09:35 mircea_popescu: mwahahaha.

06:15:06 mircea_popescu: in other news, yet another one of these : https://twitter.com/BitcoinBabeAU/status/646504292392771584

06:22:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48200 @ 0.00076332 = 36.792 BTC [+] {4}

06:54:44 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 24.66420430 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1199/the-eth-scam-wont-see-2016/#b27

06:55:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63671 @ 0.00075896 = 48.3237 BTC [-] {4}

07:07:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71854 @ 0.00075657 = 54.3626 BTC [-] {3}

07:44:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00075673 = 17.4805 BTC [+] {2}

08:01:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77900 @ 0.00076466 = 59.567 BTC [+] {7}

08:01:15 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.03225764 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1199/the-eth-scam-wont-see-2016/#b28

08:24:55 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 13.12260000 BTC on 'No' - BTC to top $700 before November - http://bitbet.us/bet/1179/btc-to-top-700-before-november/#b35

09:16:28 shinohai: ;;ticker

09:16:29 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 230.45, Best ask: 230.59, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 230.4, 24 hour volume: 13586.41889803, 24 hour low: 225.9, 24 hour high: 233.95, 24 hour vwap: None

09:21:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48700 @ 0.00076312 = 37.1639 BTC [-] {3}

10:14:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163900 @ 0.00075521 = 123.7789 BTC [-] {4}

10:28:12 cazalla: BingoBoingo, maybe aussie defence helped kick off the revival of ISIS gold coins https://twitter.com/Fight_DAESH/status/641766036421767168

10:58:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28896 @ 0.00075328 = 21.7668 BTC [-] {4}

11:10:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214669 @ 0.00076097 = 163.3567 BTC [+] {5}

11:17:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20593 @ 0.00076428 = 15.7388 BTC [+]

11:23:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00075915 = 7.3638 BTC [-]

11:27:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00075277 = 25.2554 BTC [-] {2}

11:37:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.000751 = 31.7673 BTC [-] {2}

12:06:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40500 @ 0.00075397 = 30.5358 BTC [+] {3}

12:14:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3708 @ 0.00075915 = 2.8149 BTC [+]

12:31:11 punkman: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-happy-birthday-song-lawsuit-decision-20150922-story.html

12:31:12 assbot: All the &apos;Happy Birthday&apos; song copyright claims are invalid, federal judge rules - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1V9gfKg )

12:49:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46700 @ 0.00075915 = 35.4523 BTC [+]

13:07:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32753 @ 0.00075915 = 24.8644 BTC [+]

13:16:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283587 << hm, is it me or the no side is kinda getting spent ? originally it was very chipper at 5:1, but running out of steam at 2.x :1 by now

13:16:59 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 06:54:44; deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 24.66420430 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1199/the-eth-scam-wont-see-2016/#b27

13:33:45 phf: http://emarsden.chez.com/downloads/mandel.ps << mandelbrot in postscript, apropos code vs. serialised formats

13:33:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ja37mQ )

13:36:48 shinohai: http://boingboing.net/2015/09/22/yet-another-pre-installed-spyw.html

13:36:48 assbot: Yet another pre-installed spyware app discovered on Lenovo computers / Boing Boing ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNof0B )

13:37:14 mircea_popescu: o hey shinohai, how goes the hunt ?

13:45:33 shinohai: Still the same, casting a lot but no bites :/

13:45:48 mircea_popescu: you ever saw the stripper lulz btw ?

13:45:57 shinohai: stripper lulz?

13:46:16 mircea_popescu: one sec lemme dig it up

13:46:24 shinohai: kk

13:47:08 mircea_popescu: https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-181800.html

13:47:10 assbot: Bitcoin Giveaway [Archive] - Stripper Web Exotic Dancer Community ... ( http://bit.ly/1ja5Xbw )

13:48:46 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - BTC to top $700 before November - http://bitbet.us/bet/1179/btc-to-top-700-before-november/#b36

13:48:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129600 @ 0.00076497 = 99.1401 BTC [+] {7}

13:53:52 shinohai: "Who knew giving away stuff to strippers is going to turn into some sort of criminal case, seriously now." <<< Love hanbot

13:54:22 punkman: was just looking at poloniex. you could sell ~300k eth to hit 0.1 now (and you'd take home ~1100 btc)

13:54:34 punkman: err 0.0001

13:56:54 shinohai: I've never seen strippers turn down *free fucking money* mircea_popescu

13:57:08 mircea_popescu: so now you have.

13:57:09 shinohai: 1 whole BTC yet, thats pretty generous

13:57:13 mircea_popescu: the fuckiung internet. it breeds stupid and lazy.

13:57:22 mircea_popescu: goes to funkenstein's attempt with that guy yest.

13:58:16 mircea_popescu: it would seem the "popular mechanics" interpretation of the internet in the common mind (which is what everyone no matter how brilliant in selected fields reverts to anwyay, in a process we call "the memory hole effect") is something like "the internet is an implementation of god - and a god that cares at that".

13:59:49 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.94821216 BTC on 'No' - BTC to top $700 before November - http://bitbet.us/bet/1179/btc-to-top-700-before-november/#b37

14:00:09 shinohai: Think what could have happened for a few of them with just a little research. Mighta found a way to invest said bitcoin into many times that by now :/

14:00:28 mircea_popescu: yeah, into p2p lending.

14:01:25 shinohai: p2p lending kek

14:01:52 shinohai: I'd put it in coinbr, but I didn't know of this place in 2013

14:05:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00075353 = 22.3798 BTC [-] {3}

14:07:23 shinohai: I am seeing a correlation here though. You are practically giving away btc to artists that are doing it anyway, but most are too lazy to open a webchat and come to irc.

14:07:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu will love this one: http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/09/coffee-shop-owners-face-backlash-after-pick-up-artist-podcast-exposed

14:07:42 assbot: Coffee shop owners face backlash after “pick-up artist” podcast exposed | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1Vao3Gk )

14:10:24 mircea_popescu: lol

14:11:53 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283583 << what am i looking at ?

14:11:53 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 06:09:33; mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/virtuallylaw/status/645645873716850688 << check it out asciilifeform :D

14:12:25 mircea_popescu: peter murck wanna "kill the drama"

14:12:34 shinohai: I commented on that tweet kek

14:12:43 asciilifeform: this is a what, a gavin ?

14:12:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one of the people killed in my recent drawing.

14:13:00 asciilifeform: ah

14:13:16 mircea_popescu: because you know, bitcoin is not backed by lulz and drama anymoar. it's backed by inept pencildicks in pretendsuits.

14:13:41 asciilifeform: i confess i must have slept through whatever this was.

14:13:52 mircea_popescu: anyway. it just amused me as a case of "bug shaped man confused that the future doesn't seem to belong to him."

14:14:29 asciilifeform: it is very easy to be confused when flying in own jet while opponents starve

14:14:45 mircea_popescu: yes, were that to be the case it would easy to be confused.

14:15:20 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283046

14:15:20 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 00:19:51; mircea_popescu: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/22/controversial-drug-ceo-was-accused-of-serious-harassment.html << so it begins.

14:16:15 BingoBoingo: ./bitcoin-qt

14:16:23 asciilifeform: eh, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283072

14:16:23 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 01:36:58; asciilifeform: also usg giveth, usg taketh away. a 'pharma ceo' has so much as one cent purely by the good graces of hitler - who helpfully keeps penny-a-pill indian generics mostly out of u.s. market

14:16:37 mircea_popescu: "own jet" baby. you said.

14:16:48 mircea_popescu: it's not my fault i end up repeating myself.

14:17:00 *: asciilifeform possibly sees where mircea_popescu is going with this

14:17:27 mircea_popescu: i'm staying right here!

14:17:49 asciilifeform: point.

14:18:18 asciilifeform: from same rag, http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/09/serious-imgur-bug-exploited-to-execute-worm-like-attack-on-8chan-users

14:18:19 assbot: Serious Imgur bug exploited to execute worm-like attack on 8chan users | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1VapKUa )

14:19:33 mircea_popescu: and this is not (one of the) tor deanonymization tricks.

14:19:47 mircea_popescu: ie, mandated hole in img hoster.

14:19:50 asciilifeform: possibly the oldest

14:22:33 shinohai: Shalom pete_dushenski

14:23:40 pete_dushenski: guten morgen

14:25:10 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/sRUZoaT.jpg <<< yellowfever.jpg

14:25:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1jafrnl )

14:25:57 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283628 << huh

14:25:57 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 13:54:22; punkman: was just looking at poloniex. you could sell ~300k eth to hit 0.1 now (and you'd take home ~1100 btc)

14:26:06 pete_dushenski: ;;calc 300000/2000

14:26:06 gribble: 150

14:27:36 mircea_popescu: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-421391-start-0.html some top keks.

14:27:38 assbot: Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Enslave gnome-pty-helper ... ( http://bit.ly/1Var49q )

14:27:48 deedbot-: [fraudsters] The strange case of the six hundred dollars and other stories. - http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-strange-case-of-the-six-hundred-dollars-and-other-stories/

14:27:53 pete_dushenski: so anyone crazy enough to have plunked down 150 btc on ethereum's pre-sale would take home ~1`100 btc + whatever chunk of the bitbet they so desired before closing it out

14:28:24 asciilifeform: 'turns out xfce4's terminal app depends on it. it's getting pretty tough to keep a gnome/kde free system. maybe i should give in to the evil' << l0l

14:28:31 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^

14:28:33 punkman: pete_dushenski: seems like there's at least 30 "accounts" with more than 300k eth https://etherchain.org/accounts

14:28:34 assbot: Accounts - etherchain.org - The ethereum blockchain explorer ... ( http://bit.ly/1Var9tZ )

14:28:59 mircea_popescu: punkman so i guess now we find out that "those were fictive" ^H^H^H^H^H^H ppls really believe in teh technologee.

14:29:07 asciilifeform: where the hell do they get this 'tough to keep a gnome/kde free system'

14:29:33 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: punkman fictive and/or ostriches

14:29:47 mircea_popescu: aha.

14:30:02 jurov: asciilifeform: many apps pull gnome/kde libs

14:30:03 pete_dushenski: or better yet, 'civil gentlemen who don't do things like betting'

14:30:23 pete_dushenski: 'because gambling is uncouth and only done with vegas bookies using their scammy lines'

14:30:27 asciilifeform: jurov: well, if we count gtk, then - virtually everything

14:30:34 mircea_popescu: yeah, they're into this for the money, except they only want to make money by going long. shorts are bad mkay.

14:30:40 asciilifeform: if we don't - can't think of anything i have on my boxes that would

14:31:46 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this'll sound strange, but shorts are 'pessimistic' and even 'cynical' in the eyes of the large-foreheaded

14:32:24 jurov: asciilifeform: i meant these cases where the libraries spawn processes on their own

14:32:35 mircea_popescu: right because there's a fundamental difference between equations that come out positive and equations that come out negative.

14:33:19 mircea_popescu: like 1/x -4 is entirely a different thing from 1/x +4.

14:33:28 mircea_popescu: this is what they teach in math school now.

14:39:12 shinohai: Top minds of #bitcoin-assets: Is or is not Pope Francis a socialist?

14:39:59 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu yeah should prolly bump the initial bet to .1 instead

14:40:43 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the problem i see is this : forcing bets removes their signalling capacity. if i increase the minimum i just remove meaning from money.

14:41:17 kakobrekla: how is it more forcing than now?

14:41:48 mircea_popescu: now it's just 0.01, which means we suck the meaning out of a cent. if minimum becomes 0.1, we suck the meaning out of ten cents. which may be too much,

14:42:02 mircea_popescu: basically this might be one of those situations where regulation is a loser.

14:42:51 mircea_popescu: might be why the "2 btc minimum on sports bets" thing introduced last year nigh on killed sports. that may need to be taken off.

14:43:46 mircea_popescu: but basically... it never occured to me that in point of fact bitbet's minimum acts as a tax. and a lot of other things in here never occured to me. i'm still reeling over the whole pile.

14:47:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, im taking the local devs out for a breakfast hackathon. bbl.

14:47:08 shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3m1j8r/accessories_for_the_21_buttboard_now_available/ <<< priceless

14:47:09 assbot: Accessories for the 21 BUTTBOARD now available. : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1jakTq4 )

14:52:18 punkman: https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/i-m-charlie-shrem-bitcoin-pioneer-currently-in-federal-prison-ama-t239.html#p393 Ver asking Shrem for prison tips

14:53:59 punkman: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2015/09/23/ebay-phishing-sites-hosted-by-ebay.html

14:54:00 assbot: eBay phishing sites hosted by… eBay | Netcraft ... ( http://bit.ly/1jamBHX )

15:02:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00076877 = 29.2517 BTC [+] {3}

15:24:53 jurov: shinohai: https://secure.marketwatch.com/story/thank-god-the-pope-is-an-anticapitalism-socialist-2013-12-11

15:24:55 assbot: Pope is an anticapitalism socialist — thank God - Paul B. Farrell - MarketWatch ... ( http://bit.ly/1QynkNz )

15:29:09 shinohai: Thanks jurov. Seems today he is with the democratic socialists.

15:34:45 lobbes: you also gotta love how he feels qualified to endorse the 'climate change' scam. smells like a usg appendage to me

15:40:12 funkenstein_: good morin' lords ladies and esteemed bots

15:40:45 funkenstein_: pete_dushenski, what's goin' on with VW?

15:41:12 funkenstein_: the notion that britney spears did damage to music might be compared to the idea that Garza did damage to bitcoin

15:42:08 funkenstein_: while itunes listeners, CD collectors, and arena concert attendees are part of musical history like redditors with circle accounts are part of bitcoin history

15:44:28 lobbes: I'd argue that 'music' is just fine, but it is the 'popular music industry' that suffers today. But, the masses have come to expect (tm) as they say

15:46:21 pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: vw is under investigation for 'studying to the test' atm. i'm sure they'll be slapped with a big ol' fine by usg and then watch their sales fall by 10-20%

15:47:54 lobbes: yeah, didn't they alter their code to 'switch' when it detected testing or something similar?

15:48:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73666 @ 0.00075727 = 55.7851 BTC [-] {3}

15:48:55 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283456 << thread

15:48:55 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 04:55:31; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-09-2015#1278736 << turns out that i was off the mark here. to wit : "Emissions system and fuel economy testing is conducted while a vehicle is placed on a dynamometer—think of it as a two big rollers or a treadmill—rather than driving on the road. The vehicle has only its driving wheels rolling (the front ones, in the case of VW vehicles). But the rear tires

15:49:18 lobbes: aha

15:49:47 ben_vulpes: lobbes: usg tentacle is the catholic church's only future existence

15:50:13 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform that'd truly make it a little shop of horrors!

15:50:13 gribble: The operation succeeded.

15:51:23 pete_dushenski: lobbes: in essence, the usg's continued insistence that, in every regard and in every field, the map is the territory, is used to trip up both citizens and corporations wherever and wherever it might be convenient

15:51:25 ben_vulpes: funkenstein_: can't really hold the streetwalker responsible for the condition of the streets now can you?

15:51:34 pete_dushenski: basically, the usg is one giant boobytrap

15:52:26 pete_dushenski: and vw's hindleg is stuck in a trap from which is must now chew its way out

15:54:23 pete_dushenski: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/no-fixed-abode-rage-zipcar/ <-- excellent reference to --> http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/01/im_building_a_rape_tunnel.html

15:54:25 assbot: Rage Against The Zipcar – No Fixed Abode ... ( http://bit.ly/1OuEoq9 )

15:54:27 assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: I'm Building A Rape Tunnel ... ( http://bit.ly/1OuEoqj )

15:55:15 pete_dushenski: can't say i'd come across this tlp article until now.

15:55:20 pete_dushenski: !s rape tunnel

15:55:21 assbot: 0 results for 'rape tunnel' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rape+tunnel

15:55:56 pete_dushenski: "Why rape? Because as an artistic gesture, it's one of the most impactful I can think of... It dawned on me that if the work [we local artists] created had never existed, the world would be no different than if it had. None of it mattered to anyone outside of our small and insignificant circle of peers. I wanted something that would have more impact...I want to make it clear that I plan to make the experience as

15:55:56 pete_dushenski: unpleasant as I possibly can to anyone who dares to crawl through the tunnel. I will try to the best of my ability to make them regret their decision...I'll try my very best to sexually assault him or her. The tunnel is constructed in such a way that it gets smaller the closer you get to the project room. The bigger you are, the more difficult it is to comfortably crawl out. And trust me, I have a lot of secret

15:55:56 pete_dushenski: s up my sleeve to ensure that I can overpower anyone that comes through the tunnel."

15:56:10 pete_dushenski: ^too lulzy not to keep on record

15:56:47 pete_dushenski: 'artist' is/was one Richard Whitehurst

15:58:00 wywialm: shinohai, depends on the definition of socialism

15:58:02 wywialm: :)

15:59:35 wywialm: i'm no expert on catholic teaching, but under charitable interpretation, Pope Francis is not outside catholic guidelines on care of the poor and principle of subsidiarity

16:03:12 pete_dushenski: wywialm shinohai et al., i refer you to http://fraudsters.com/2013/universalism-postwar-progressivism-as-a-christian-sect/

16:03:13 assbot: "Universalism: postwar progressivism as a Christian sect" on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OuF5zQ )

16:03:54 pete_dushenski: pope poverty-spec isn't exactly breaking the mold here.

16:09:30 wywialm: pete_dushenski, to be fair, i'm not sure how this relates to Pope Francis official teaching or private opinions

16:09:45 wywialm: could you please explain?

16:10:51 pete_dushenski: wywialm: the idea being that xtians are the original socialists, if not the jews before them.

16:11:30 wywialm: as i stated earlier, this depends on the definition of socialism

16:11:38 pete_dushenski: so expecting francis or any other clergyman of 'the people' to expound the virtues of capitalism or sanity is like expecting a potato to grow legs and start running marathons

16:13:59 pete_dushenski: socialism : the political viewpoint that holds as its highest virtue the coercive redistribution of resources

16:14:26 wywialm: then Pope Francis is not a socialist

16:14:45 pete_dushenski: oh ?

16:16:47 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

16:16:53 wywialm: the catholic teaching on the subject (afaik) is that there should be no redistribution, but that there are obligations to the poor that should be met in a non-centralistic manner

16:17:33 wywialm: also, the effect - the redistribution - is not the virtue, charity, i.e. voluntary act is

16:18:17 wywialm: and the virtue is the preservation of the moral order of society, of which private property is an essential part

16:19:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.0007597 = 17.5871 BTC [+] {3}

16:19:43 wywialm: what must be said, though, that in his private utterances, Pope Francis leaves much space for uncharitable interpretation

16:20:17 pete_dushenski: eg ?

16:21:07 pete_dushenski: the private utterances, that is

16:22:47 wywialm: e.g. his adhortation he issued just after election

16:23:03 wywialm: to my knowledge, it does not have a status of an official teaching

16:23:54 pete_dushenski: ;;google pope francis adhortation

16:23:55 gribble: Pope Francis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis; Will Pope Francis Clash With American Conservatives on His Trip to ...: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/pope-francis-religious-persecution-american-conservatives/397691/; For G.O.P., Pope Francis' Visit to Congress Comes With Tensions ...: (1 more message)

16:24:18 wywialm: evangelii gaudium, if i remember correctly

16:24:32 pete_dushenski: wywialm: you have a link to transcript or something ?

16:24:40 wywialm: let me look

16:25:07 wywialm: http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations.index.html

16:25:08 assbot: Apostolic Exhortations | Francis ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNYJbw )

16:25:23 wywialm: note that there is no latin text

16:25:38 pete_dushenski: ya, why not ?

16:25:48 wywialm: please ask the Pope

16:26:20 wywialm: the same goes with his recent encyclical

16:26:31 pete_dushenski: lol will do

16:26:39 ascii_field: l0l, that pope is in town today, neon signs warning of it on the 'beltway'

16:27:41 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell pope_francis are you too much of a 'man of the people' for latin now ?

16:27:41 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:28:02 ascii_field: pete_dushenski: he's a vat.-II-compliant pope

16:28:23 ascii_field: iirc in usa somewhere there is a spare, schismatic pope who isn't

16:28:27 pete_dushenski: and web-II compliant tambien

16:28:27 ascii_field: dig him up.

16:29:05 pete_dushenski: i'll leave that bit of homework to others, wywialm perhaps

16:30:11 ascii_field: 'Whem I'm released, the only restriction I have is travelling for the first few months. Other than that, Im allowed to use the internet. Im debating wether to buy the blackphone when I get out or just root an android ' << win

16:31:35 wywialm: ascii_field, incidentally, the Vat-II does not mandate majority of His actions, beginning but not ending with the Mass and ecumenic policy

16:31:41 pete_dushenski: "56. While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyrann

16:31:41 pete_dushenski: y is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions. T

16:31:41 pete_dushenski: he thirst for power and possessions knows no limits. In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule." << every socialist hashtag wrapped up in a single paragraph. no points for guessing who wrote.

16:32:40 ascii_field: wywialm: pope has ~actions~ !?! who else, queen of denmark ? emperor of jp ?

16:34:25 wywialm: well, the pope has vastly more power on His subjects than queen of denmark, if this is what you mean

16:34:38 ascii_field: https://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/lew/LEW_aohandbook.pdf >> http://dpaste.com/0Q12M1P << jail manual. handy.

16:34:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gO0Coo )

16:34:43 assbot: dpaste: 0Q12M1P ... ( http://bit.ly/1gO0zJq )

16:35:22 ascii_field: 'Confinement in any institution such as Lewisburg is never a pleasant experience. Every attempt is

16:35:22 ascii_field: made, however, to make thi

16:35:22 ascii_field: s institution one in which each man has the opportunity to “make the most”

16:35:22 ascii_field: of his time. It is important that each inmate follow the rules of the institution in order that all

16:35:23 ascii_field: may live in comparative harmony without fear or threats or intimidation.'

16:36:38 ascii_field: 'In January 2009, USP Lewisburg began a mission change converting to a Special Management Unit (SMU) facility. Therefore, the information in this handbook is for the general population inmates only (Cadre Unit).' << this is worth explaining. SMU is a series of 'special prisons' where folks are held incommunicado. instituted under bush II

16:39:57 phf: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7sRArBiqnC4/SU7ROynutjI/AAAAAAAAAP8/sKqNE7ZyxHI/s1600/PBF244-Preach_Skate.jpg << 'man of the people'

16:39:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gO1wBp )

16:41:09 shinohai: Ah great find pete_dushenski

16:44:49 pete_dushenski: despite paul's opinion to the contrary, there's always a fraudsters reference somewhere

16:47:10 pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field

16:48:04 pete_dushenski: wywialm: in any event, that's a 'world's tallest midget' competition. the pope is still just a politician representing way too many people and interests to be effective

16:48:55 wywialm: again, only to my knowledge, he does not represent any 'people', however considered

16:50:49 shinohai: I brought up the subject due to the statement he made that "I am not a socialist" yet in my limited knowledge of the subject, he has a lot of socialist ideas.

16:51:18 wywialm: and this sentence, shinohai, is probably very close to truth

16:51:21 shinohai: fraudsters, is there any knowledge it doesn't contain

16:52:17 shinohai: This bs >>> checkpoints.cpp:59:1: fatal error: opening dependency file obj/nogui/checkpoints.d: No such file or directory

16:54:15 wywialm: pete_dushenski, he may try to speak as the voice of the 'people', but it is clear to me that it is way outside of his mandate as a pope

16:55:30 pete_dushenski: wywialm: ok. i'll bite. what's the pope ~actual~ mandate ?

16:56:38 shinohai: To distract people from child-diddling with his flashy outfits ?

16:58:16 wywialm: the most precise definition of this is the vaticanum I constitution "pastor aeternus", and this is to guard the tradition of the Church

16:59:27 phf: shinohai: you're probably missing src/obj/nogui folder?

16:59:56 deedbot-: [Qntra] FDA Regulatory Overreach Allows Price Gouging - http://qntra.net/2015/09/fda-regulatory-overreach-allows-price-gouging/

17:00:00 shinohai: I'll try manually adding it. I'm in the habit of deleting object files when a build fails

17:03:22 shinohai: (-__\) #facepalm that was it ...

17:05:30 phf: i think there was a conversation at some point how diff/patch doesn't create empty directories and you have to resort to .keepme hacks, it was suggested that the correct solution is to patch makefile.unix instead, but i don't think that was done

17:05:48 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: "Because in spite of prices being involve," << missing a letter here

17:06:29 BingoBoingo: thx pete_dushenski fxd

17:20:19 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

17:31:34 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283763 << Jesus said to help your neighbor; not to force your neighbor to help some other guy neither of you has ever heard of

17:31:34 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:13:59; pete_dushenski: socialism : the political viewpoint that holds as its highest virtue the coercive redistribution of resources

17:32:44 pete_dushenski: jesus is an entity very much distinct from the church

17:33:00 pete_dushenski: this is obvious

17:33:33 pete_dushenski: that the pope follows jesus' teachings to the letter would be like obama following jefferson's

17:36:29 danielpbarron: if you mean the "catholic" church, then I couldn't agree more: http://www.atruechurch.info/catholicism.html

17:36:30 assbot: A True Church - Roman Catholicism Leads to Hell ... ( http://bit.ly/1iwRLZJ )

17:39:44 pete_dushenski: in this case, yes, i do

17:40:01 pete_dushenski: as it's our subject matter

17:46:09 wywialm: pete_dushenski, there is no letter in Jesus's teaching to be followed

17:46:48 wywialm: that does not however mean that his power is arbitrary

17:50:44 pete_dushenski: http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/vw%E2%80%99s-cheating-just-tip-iceberg << moar on emissions testing with a focus on e.u. oversight.

17:50:44 assbot: VW’s cheating is just the tip of the iceberg | Transport & Environment ... ( http://bit.ly/1V9zNhB )

17:52:39 lobbes: !up ascii_field

18:05:21 pete_dushenski: http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/the-left-has-its-pope/ << wywialm danielpbarron

18:05:22 assbot: The left has its pope ... ( http://bit.ly/1V9APKi )

18:05:36 pete_dushenski: "It is not poverty, but prosperity, that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires many things – none of which is equally distributed around the world or even within a given society."

18:12:50 pete_dushenski: !up thestringpuller

18:15:46 danielpbarron: > Paine rejected the teachings of "any church that I know of," including "the Roman church." << me too (with the exception of that one, which I found almost by accident through a mutual interest in the Ron Paul presidential campaign)

18:16:35 pete_dushenski: o what was 'that one' ?

18:17:05 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: so what's your way to limit wealth ?

18:17:07 danielpbarron: the one to which I linked earlier

18:17:10 lobbes: atruechurch.info << this one?

18:17:12 danielpbarron: ya

18:17:41 danielpbarron: I met the author of that site, and a couple of his daughters, one of his sons, and his sister and her son, oh and his mother

18:17:54 danielpbarron: all at PaulFest 2012 in florida

18:19:56 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: kill all the rich people when they get past threshold

18:20:02 thestringpuller: i.e. rape and pillage!

18:20:54 danielpbarron: and on the topic of socialism vs capitalism and the Bible, see also: http://www.atruechurch.info/slavery.html >> Believers in the first century owned slaves (Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1; 1 Timothy 6:2), and they were not instructed to let them go; but rather, to treat them with justice

18:20:55 assbot: A True Church - Slavery ... ( http://bit.ly/1V9BLi0 )

18:21:14 thestringpuller: But /wind 1

18:21:22 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: this'd be too hard to measure and even harder to enforce. honestly, a sterile male clone army is simpler.

18:21:51 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: "As such, I would find it absolutely essential, in order to take this question to its logical conclusion, to murder everyone in my constituency extant and to replace them with an army of sterile maleviii clones (perhaps with the help of Monsanto because I hear they’re pretty good at this sort of thing), whom will be raised by robot nannies, so as to control for the differences between parenting qualities and s

18:22:24 wywialm: pete_dushenski, you don't have to convince me that pope allows himself statements that sound dangerously leftist

18:23:00 pete_dushenski: wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' ?

18:23:36 thestringpuller: Add some soma and other drugs in the mix and you have robotic people who don't care about wealth but "maintaining" the machine that spawned them. Honestly in this context a differentiation of male clones would benefit society in the same way the Irkin empire in Invader Zim came to power.

18:23:53 pete_dushenski: wywialm: because that opens the door to an untold number of personal fantasies, as has been previously discussed in the logs

18:24:29 wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite

18:24:33 thestringpuller: At that rate instead of limiting wealth, why not make the leader of society the person who happens to be the tallest, (if that is everyone is bred to be the same height but due to anomolies one or two individiuals are much taller than the rest)

18:25:51 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: because the leader is the breeder, not the slave clone ?

18:25:55 wywialm: do what he says as interpreted as charitably as possible and in the light of the whole catholic teaching

18:26:03 pete_dushenski: wywialm: go on.

18:26:35 wywialm: what pope means is not more interesting than your average intellectual

18:26:58 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: actually no. in this context the leader is bred of "the machine".

18:27:10 thestringpuller: lets say we have a breeding machine that breeds all humans.

18:27:14 wywialm: what he says, in particular what he says officially and marks as his official teaching, is way more important

18:27:31 thestringpuller: a few come out as taller, and are hence deemed leaders.

18:27:51 thestringpuller: Eventually they die and more are spawned in the machine.

18:27:58 wywialm: however, this pope doesn't seem to be bothered by such things as 'official text'

18:28:13 thestringpuller: In this scenario I would say all men are a slave to the machine. Without the machine the species ends.

18:29:10 pete_dushenski: wywialm: mkay then the issue at hand is from whence we derive this 'charitable interpretation' if not from his 'meaning' rather than his 'words'

18:29:50 pete_dushenski: either pope's words are his words and stand as they are, or else they have an alternative and alterior 'meaning' and can be 'charitably interpreted'

18:30:26 wywialm: well, catholicism has not begun in 2013 and not in 1965 as well and there is plenty of context to be applied

18:30:29 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: and the machine came about naturally ? just like that ?

18:31:25 pete_dushenski: wywialm: that's not my argument. on that we agree. but you still need to back up http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283872

18:31:25 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 18:24:29; wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite

18:31:47 wywialm: yes, that is what i'm trying to defend

18:32:14 pete_dushenski: you seem to be doing a very circular and specious job of it :P

18:32:23 thestringpuller: Well lets say the machine was created by protohumans (pre-machine humans), and then as a result became slaves to the machine

18:32:35 thestringpuller: future generations became slaves*

18:33:04 thestringpuller: the protohumans eventually die off and what is left is a human race dedicated to maintaining the machine, in the sense of the zerg protecting the hivemind. Here the machine is the leader not a man.

18:33:16 wywialm: i'm not particularly interested in Jorge Bergoglio's opinion and what he means, i'm rather scared that this is far away from i'd like to hear

18:33:26 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: can the machine have lazers ? for shooting non-tall slaves ? but then one tall one survives the blast and becomes the leader of the resistance ?

18:34:20 pete_dushenski: wywialm: is jorge too socialistic for your taste ? or ...

18:34:49 wywialm: but i'm interested in what is the Pope's teaching on the subject of helping the poor is

18:35:41 thestringpuller: Random L0L: I'm Charlie Shrem, Bitcoin Pioneer currently in Federal Prison. << I'm tempted to ask, "Is your butthole still tight?"

18:35:58 thestringpuller: ^ Shrem's AMA btw

18:36:19 wywialm: if this sounds ambigous to me - and it does - i'd check what is the context of what the pope says, and this is e.g. his predecessors

18:37:02 wywialm: yes, jorge bergoglio *sounds* way too 'leftist' for me

18:38:00 danielpbarron: thestringpuller, who would want to have sex with him? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-09-2015#1279241

18:38:00 assbot: Logged on 19-09-2015 03:02:00; mircea_popescu: nobody's getting "anally dilated" in prison dude. wake up and smell the coffee, erections are rare.

18:38:45 thestringpuller: Look at that smiley baby face! We've all seen shawshank redemption.

18:39:25 thestringpuller: Come on a lifer with no conjugal visits gets desperate.

18:39:41 pete_dushenski: wywialm: yes, jorge bergoglio *sounds* way too 'leftist' for me << and yet, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283764

18:39:41 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:14:26; wywialm: then Pope Francis is not a socialist

18:40:05 pete_dushenski: are we splitting hairs over leftism v. socialism ?

18:40:26 thestringpuller: ^- pete_dushenski is there a difference at this point?

18:40:30 thestringpuller: wind 4

18:40:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42092 @ 0.00075996 = 31.9882 BTC [+] {3}

18:41:04 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: to wywialm there may be, tis what i'm interested to find out

18:41:49 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: i've always wondered, by definition, does socialism prevent natural selection?

18:42:15 thestringpuller: By forcing society to be "equal" doesn't that benefit the stupid more than the fit?

18:43:14 phf: doesn't cathoic church has a deedbot of some sort? i'm more familiar with orthodox system, but presumably they come out every once in a while to updates for canon and the catechism, "we found the previous belief that 10 angels can fit on a head of a needle invalid, and on the account of recent scientific developments in nanotechnology, we are now convinced that the correct number is in fact 17" sort of thing

18:44:02 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: see, 'socialism', while we tend to use it in this manner here, doesn't ~have~ to refer to the societal level. it can also refer to, say, the family level, wherein it works quite well and, yes, prevents natural selection, which'd be the point.

18:44:06 pete_dushenski: !up thestringpuller

18:44:32 phf: in which case whatever pope says is basically his personal believes as a famous public figure

18:44:41 wywialm: pete_dushenski, i hope not. i said that Bergoglio sounds leftist, because that is in my opinion broader than (at least economically understood) socialism

18:45:19 wywialm: but i think there is difference between saying that about Bergoglio as Bergoglio, and as Pope Francis

18:45:28 pete_dushenski: phf: catholic church definitely revised its opinions from time to time. see galileo.

18:46:17 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: when you say from a family level (which is more decentralized in context to global societies socialism), do you mean immediate family? Dad Mom Borther Sister? Or do you mean a larger lineage: grandpa, grandma, aunt uncle cousins?

18:46:22 pete_dushenski: wywialm: nope. that just doesn't wash. this is the EXACT same shtick as 'opinions of ceo of megacorp are not the opinions of megacorp'

18:46:28 pete_dushenski: yes. they are.

18:46:33 pete_dushenski: wtf else is a leader for.

18:46:41 wywialm: pete_dushenski, i'm a little bit familiar with the galileo case, and i wouldn't put it as an example of revision of doctrine

18:47:04 thestringpuller: and even here wouldn't socialism in the family unit prevent natural selection only temporarily?

18:47:06 pete_dushenski: this rationalist dualist approach to division of the same mind holds no water.

18:48:07 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: families are very personal things, up for each to decide where to draw the lines of 'close enough to care about'

18:48:10 wywialm: i do not believe that pope has opinions, simply put. what pope says is what pope says *officially* and not to the journalists at the airport

18:48:27 pete_dushenski: mnope.

18:49:25 pete_dushenski: there's no official v. unofficial distinction to be drawn. none whatsoever.

18:49:28 wywialm: i wanted to point that the level of officiality (at least by catholic criteria) is ambiguous even with most publicised texts, such as his adhortation or encyclicals

18:49:53 wywialm: we have to disagree on that point

18:49:57 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: yes but the affect of "preventing" natural selection from occurring in the family unit is only temporary. even d00d protected in parents basement until his 40's may never have kids. (or perhaps the barrier to having kids is so low the termporary shield against selection of any sort gives unfit offspring the opportunity to spawn with other unfit offspring i.e. idiocracy)

18:50:29 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: imo in both these cases, it's detrimental to the species since the weak are perserved for no other reason than "because I can and I love my son/daughter".

18:51:46 wywialm: there is difference between what i say loosely, what i say clearsigned and what i sign and put on the deedbot

18:52:18 thestringpuller: ^^- Whatever you say at this point is logged...

18:52:22 pete_dushenski: wywialm: the only difference there is verifiability

18:52:30 thestringpuller: ^^^ and that

18:52:46 pete_dushenski: which doesn't apply to the pope's case here.

18:52:54 wywialm: no, as the pope does not sign with only his personal key

18:53:03 pete_dushenski: there's no 'maybe he didn't say that' when it's verifiably on the record.

18:53:24 pete_dushenski: wywialm: pope has multiple keys ?!

18:54:13 wywialm: well, catholic church teaches that he received some from his predecessors :)

18:54:26 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: your 'imo' as to the merits and value of intrafamilial socialism doesn't stand up against the biological and historical record.

18:55:06 wywialm: also, he is bound by what has been signed by them

18:55:07 pete_dushenski: it's much too expensive an action to be a spandrel

18:55:46 wywialm: i think this is a good metaphor

18:56:06 pete_dushenski: s/spandrel/vestigial << hungry brain hard at work !

18:56:07 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: but this isn't caveman times when women would fuck you based on how awesome of a hunter you are.

18:56:45 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: hunter fucks women, not the other way around.

18:57:54 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: my mistake; but intrafamilial socialism was beneficial in allowing the species to use "strength in nubmers" against say the wooly mammoth and sabertooth tiger.

18:58:21 thestringpuller: In this instance I'd think weakest hunter is used as cannon fodder.

18:58:42 thestringpuller: In modern times it seems to enable stupidity rather than squelch it.

18:59:59 pete_dushenski: wywialm: well, catholic church teaches that he received some from his predecessors :) << doesn't add up with >> also, he is bound by what has been signed by them

19:00:40 pete_dushenski: pope either owns the keys of his predecessors, and therefore everything they've every signed, or he doesn't and then he can pick and choose what to sign with his own key

19:01:22 wywialm: he cannot contradict what they chose to sign with these keys, can he?

19:01:43 pete_dushenski: either way, he is bound by what he says on record. not what he 'means' in the context of whatever arbitrary third parties may deem to be relevant teachings of his predecessors

19:02:04 wywialm: but what he says is not obvious

19:02:25 pete_dushenski: so you say.

19:03:16 pete_dushenski: while you ALSO say "'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite"

19:03:22 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:03:27 ascii_field: holy fuck is this thread a snore.

19:03:37 pete_dushenski: lol

19:03:40 wywialm: :)

19:03:42 thestringpuller: ascii_field: my piano teacher wants to talk to you.

19:03:53 thestringpuller: he is like you but instead of computers he does piano.

19:04:13 ascii_field: wawat

19:04:19 mod6: piano reverser

19:04:29 thestringpuller: Showed him a bunch of bash.bitcoin-assets.com quotes and he was like "is this guy russian?"

19:04:47 ascii_field: what could've led him to that suspicion.

19:04:51 wywialm: pete_dushenski, i already tried to clarify what i meant on 'what he says'

19:05:14 thestringpuller: mod6: seriously he is a music reverse engineer. He can listen to a song and write down the chords on a single listen.

19:05:24 thestringpuller: d00d is fucking magical like good ol alf here

19:06:57 pete_dushenski: wywialm: yes, 'signed statements only', which still doesn't wash in mine eyes, but seems to be a matter of perspective.

19:07:34 pete_dushenski: i guess you're free to do business with people who have this duality is you so please :)

19:12:22 wywialm: if you meet, say, Warren Buffett, and he tells you 'sure, I'll give you some money', do you expect the cash to come from his personal funds or from BRK accounts? I'd expect from any officer to distinguish between his private actions and actions of his office

19:13:15 wywialm: and with pope, the actions are primarily teaching, so i strive to keep this difference there

19:14:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00075012 = 31.8051 BTC [-] {5}

19:14:41 wywialm: in particular, when i do not approve of his certain actions, i assume them to be his private and not official, unless proven otherwise

19:15:03 mircea_popescu: holy log...

19:15:13 wywialm: hi, mircea_popescu :)

19:16:45 mircea_popescu: <funkenstein_> the notion that britney spears did damage to music might be compared to the idea that Garza did damage to bitcoin << still, i'd pay a little for it not being possible for britney to exist. and garza idem.

19:17:13 ascii_field: ^ deal! where do i pay

19:17:15 mircea_popescu: if we can have an arrangement where these peasants are opressed into the dirt by boot to the face, i'm willing to forego ipads in exchange.

19:17:15 ascii_field: this'd be lovely.

19:17:26 mircea_popescu: because fuck this sort of rotten pseudo-creativity.

19:17:58 pete_dushenski: ascii_field: poor people can't pay

19:18:12 ascii_field: sure they can

19:18:18 mircea_popescu: how goes wywialm

19:18:18 ascii_field: pay last penny, sell shirt

19:19:37 wywialm: quite slowly, but fine, thanks, and you?

19:19:59 mircea_popescu: arguing with people in a layered cake.

19:20:37 mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/1179/btc-to-top-700-before-november/ << gotta love how this thing insta-rebalances so the no side makes a shaving above 101%, ie, what bitbet takes.

19:20:38 assbot: BitBet - BTC to top $700 before November :: 5.03 B (4%) on Yes, 118.82 B (96%) on No | closing in 2 weeks 2 days | weight: 38`035 (100`000 to 22`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1FuQ1uw )

19:20:51 mircea_popescu: srsly, the odds bitcoin breaks out next month are worse than 10:1 ?

19:21:50 ascii_field: breaks out ?

19:22:23 mircea_popescu: ie goes over 700

19:24:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25409 @ 0.00075129 = 19.0895 BTC [+]

19:28:09 mircea_popescu: o hey, check out the ballas insights.

19:28:10 mircea_popescu: "Fear assumes limitless possibilities: the thing you fear has infinite power, infinite resources, infinite resolve, unknown identity. Hate comes when you know them. Cyril Connolly did not say, "if it bleeds, we can kill it." But he should have."

19:28:49 mircea_popescu: banal shit, but : there's two kinds of men. there's those who assume the usg is anon all powerful ; and those who've killed usg agents after being bored to tears by their inept begging.

19:34:52 shinohai: !up ascii_field

19:35:52 ascii_field: https://code.google.com/p/google-security-research/issues/detail?id=460

19:35:53 assbot: Issue 460 - google-security-research - Cisco AnyConnect Secure Mobility Client v3.1.08009 Elevation of Privilege - Google Security Research - Google Project Hosting ... ( http://bit.ly/1FuR9hF )

19:36:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283785 << because he's an uncultivated hack.

19:36:44 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:25:48; wywialm: please ask the Pope

19:37:50 ascii_field: 'The fix for this issue seemed to be modifying the file verification process to only allow a signed file which also has in its version information the original filename of vpndownloader.exe. This, along with the name change makes it clear you only want to execute the VPN Downloader application. However the code doesn’t limit the location of the executable file, so one exploitation vector is DLL planting. The downloade

19:37:51 ascii_field: r loads a lot of DLLs from the executable directory first, so by copying the vpndownloader.exe file from Program Files to a temporary directory and dropping an appropriately named DLL you can get code execution as SYSTEM.'

19:37:57 ascii_field: Run Moar Winblowz!

19:40:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283826 << im kinda impressed with wywialm s rather well rounded understanding of catholic issues.

19:40:11 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:58:16; wywialm: the most precise definition of this is the vaticanum I constitution "pastor aeternus", and this is to guard the tradition of the Church

19:41:27 mircea_popescu: anyway. the pope has one job and one tool. his job is to provide non-breaking answers to any questions that can't otherwise be resolved or set aside. his tool is infallibility, which is to say that if he speaks ex cathedra he can't be wrong.

19:41:47 mircea_popescu: this is almost exactly what the master of a harem is, for that matter.

19:42:15 wywialm: re: infallibility, indeed, though i'm not sure if this is his only tool

19:42:21 mircea_popescu: name another ?

19:42:44 ascii_field: when's the last time he pulled that trigger ?

19:42:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, i very much doubt there's that many people who are the intellectual equals of the task. the catholics decided that this must be so, but setting that doctrine aside, i find it dubious in practice.

19:43:02 mircea_popescu: ascii_field that's the problem, the task is made significantly harder by previous idiots who didn't understand they were pulling the trigger.

19:43:12 mircea_popescu: think of catholicism as much harder programming with immutability baked in.

19:43:17 ascii_field: was gonna say.

19:43:30 ascii_field: in engineering this used to be known as 'design space shrinkage'

19:43:32 mircea_popescu: it's a wonder it hasn't yet fallen over.

19:43:40 mircea_popescu: quite that, yes.

19:44:00 ascii_field: as described by, e.g., rob pike

19:44:09 ascii_field: in his 'systems research is dead' talk

19:44:09 wywialm: he has more ordiary tools at his disposal, the infallibility is the ultimate. He may excommunicate, promulgate canon law, issue church penalties, issue magisterial statements, accept & decline ordinance of bishops

19:44:34 mircea_popescu: the ordinary tools are predicated on the tool. much like i will go "do i need to pick up the stick ?"

19:44:36 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1284014 <<< ikr? I asked a simple question, wywialm expounds on it in great detail.

19:44:36 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 19:40:11; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283826 << im kinda impressed with wywialm s rather well rounded understanding of catholic issues.

19:44:39 mircea_popescu: this only works because the stick.

19:45:02 wywialm: ok, in this we agree

19:45:28 mircea_popescu: aha.

19:48:55 wywialm: let me only make the provision that the application of ordinary tools, while depending on the power you refer to, is not infallible (just to clarify, in case it's not obvious)

19:49:10 mircea_popescu: certainly.

19:49:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, "voice of the people" pope is a gross misunderstanding of the entire thing already.

19:49:33 mircea_popescu: to francis' defense, he does a lot more of the pretense of that than actuality of it,

19:49:35 mircea_popescu: but still.

19:51:52 pete_dushenski: bbiab

19:58:52 wywialm: to francis' defense, he does a lot more of the pretense of that than actuality of it << that is another good point

19:58:53 mircea_popescu: anyway, if people be curious in latino-derpage, https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opci?n_preferencial_por_los_pobres

19:58:55 assbot: Opción preferencial por los pobres - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

19:59:58 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i thought it was a kgb front

20:00:11 mircea_popescu: more or less.

20:01:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, the heretical, unwelcome, incorrect, impudent, poisonous, insolent, frivolous, vulgar, coarse, brazen proposition that the poor are not lesser humans but more, in contrary of nature, obvious fact and the manifest will of any conceivable divinity.

20:09:08 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1283966 << both of them, actually.

20:09:08 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 19:03:27; ascii_field: holy fuck is this thread a snore.

20:14:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28264 @ 0.00075198 = 21.254 BTC [+]

20:14:34 mircea_popescu: "Mustaches and beards are permitted so long as they are kept clean and neat."

20:14:45 mircea_popescu: ahahaha wtf happened at lewisburg.

20:26:20 wywialm: i'll be going, thanks pete_dushenski for a nice (even if boring to the audience) discussion

20:28:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38450 @ 0.00075113 = 28.8809 BTC [-] {3}

20:39:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00074873 = 34.5165 BTC [-] {2}

20:43:16 shinohai: https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/646730673454059520?s=09

20:51:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00074822 = 43.4716 BTC [-]

21:03:01 *: BingoBoingo starting to wonder if pogo could ever run bitcoind and a form of p2pool at the same time

21:06:32 shinohai: Interesting thought BingoBoingo

21:08:26 BingoBoingo: shinohai: Would likely require a deturded p2pool with a gossip sort of "pool with people I don't think are shitheads" Wot mechanism

21:09:58 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:10:14 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: we don't have anything remotely close to a pogo-capable bitcoind.

21:10:45 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: see recent, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-09-2015#1280144

21:10:45 assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 04:11:51; asciilifeform: rewinding to,

21:10:56 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: of course that is an obstacle.

21:24:25 shinohai: I have faith in you ascii_field

21:25:21 ascii_field: somebody else is gonna have to do it.

21:25:27 ascii_field: i - elementarily - lack the time.

21:27:03 BingoBoingo: pogo may end up better suited to simpler #b-a services that emerge than serving bitcoin proper

21:29:37 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gotta understand why i even opened the issue to begin with. the dependence of therealbitcoin on pc hardware is an extreme danger.

21:29:45 BingoBoingo: it is

21:30:09 BingoBoingo: dependence of gossipd (whenever it emerges) may face geater danger

21:31:11 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gossipd is a computationally very lightweight thing, and also does not suffer from network effect

21:31:26 ascii_field: i.e. if three people have it, it is just as useful as if 33 did

21:32:01 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: But the "network effect" in the sense of putting up more relay nodes with various people's trust preferences reduces DDoS risks

21:32:39 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: correctly-implemented gossipd is intrinsically ddosproof.

21:32:52 ascii_field: even one a single node taken separately.

21:33:11 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: But is the wire DDoS proof

21:33:40 ascii_field: depends which

21:33:45 ascii_field: but who said you had to have just one wire.

21:37:06 BingoBoingo: Ah

21:38:35 BingoBoingo: http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/LibreSSL/libressl-2.3.0-relnotes.txt << LibreSSL removes SHA-0 which is apparently still in OpenSSL

21:38:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1V9Sfq9 )

21:39:49 BingoBoingo: In other news, trolling the news with basic gardening http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Winfield-gardener-finds-strange-fruit-on-the-vine-328743471.html?device=phone&c=y

21:39:51 assbot: Winfield gardener finds strange fruit on the vine ... ( http://bit.ly/1V9Sj9p )

21:40:44 BingoBoingo: Just in case it gets pulled https://archive.is/vx2c1

21:40:46 assbot: Winfield gardener finds strange fruit on the vine ... ( http://bit.ly/1V9Skds )

21:40:49 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

21:41:31 BingoBoingo: The answer to the problem is not "tomato-watermelon hybrid"

21:44:03 BingoBoingo: !up K1NGREX

21:44:21 BingoBoingo: K1NGREX: That is an awfully declarative IRC nick

21:47:17 lobbes: redundant, too

21:47:35 shinohai: Doesn't "Rex" mean king in Latin anyway ?

21:47:51 BingoBoingo: Dammit they edited the story before archiving to introduce part of the eggplant truth

21:59:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74080 @ 0.00074786 = 55.4015 BTC [-] {2}

22:05:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.00074622 = 19.5137 BTC [-] {2}

22:08:26 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/SatoshiShinohai/status/646787239616188416 awwwlolz

22:09:28 shinohai: Somehow, I just don't think he's gonna respond to me on that.

22:16:16 mircea_popescu: must suck to be reduced to trying to support yourself through whoring out your name, which you gotta keep telling yourself is somehow valuable. which it isn't, but desperate scammers don't have other options and who knows, really stupid noobs may not know any better.

22:18:26 shinohai: I can't find *any* contribution he really makes to the space besides increasing popcorn share prices.

22:18:50 shinohai: I almost responded to his baby Jesus analogy, but didn't want to offend danielpbarron

22:21:13 mircea_popescu: this is actually a valid question to ask the muppets. "name a venture roger ver was associated with to any degree that didn't fail".

22:21:42 mircea_popescu: and no, "bitcoin" is not an acceptable answer. what's next, "hey, he was an inmate at pleasant valley and it didn't fail either" ?

22:22:10 mircea_popescu: he's definitely more closely associated with the cdcr than with btc.

22:22:21 shinohai: xD

22:22:57 shinohai: https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/646746115321237505?s=09

22:26:50 shinohai: Has Ver ever made an appearance here?

22:27:17 mircea_popescu: i dun recall.

22:28:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4283 @ 0.00074621 = 3.196 BTC [-] {2}

22:29:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50117 @ 0.00074559 = 37.3667 BTC [-]

22:30:20 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/5bhh4j1.jpg <<< make me a sandwich

22:30:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCaASE )

22:33:10 pete_dushenski: Yogi Berra, a Hall of Fame catcher for the New York Yankees whose mangled syntax made him one of the sports world's most beloved and frequently quoted figures, has died at the age of 90."

22:33:20 pete_dushenski: in memory, some quotes :

22:33:30 pete_dushenski: “When you come to a fork in the road, take it.”

22:33:35 pete_dushenski: "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

22:33:57 pete_dushenski: “A nickel ain’t worth a dime anymore.”

22:34:10 pete_dushenski: “Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical.”

22:34:39 trinque: that 3rd one is excellent

22:36:29 gernika: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1284117 << seems to me to be an argument against block size inflation.

22:36:29 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 22:33:35; pete_dushenski: "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

22:39:36 mircea_popescu: nice.

22:39:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29319 @ 0.00075212 = 22.0514 BTC [+]

22:39:51 mircea_popescu: teh sandwich i mean.

22:40:07 BingoBoingo: I was about to say earlier that one of the people on my shortlist of Satoshi candidates died today.

22:45:04 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1284054 << pleasure was mine.

22:45:04 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 20:26:20; wywialm: i'll be going, thanks pete_dushenski for a nice (even if boring to the audience) discussion

22:47:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.0007439 = 22.8005 BTC [-] {3}

22:52:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24163 @ 0.00074329 = 17.9601 BTC [-]

22:55:13 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/9WTCxWE.jpg

22:55:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCeCdz )

23:01:19 shinohai: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1181693.msg12505384#msg12505384 <<< someone mentions bitcoin-assets lawgs

23:01:21 assbot: Bitcoin XT Post Mortem - Group Discussion ... ( http://bit.ly/1MJP0RK )

23:04:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58800 @ 0.00074272 = 43.6719 BTC [-] {4}

23:20:04 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-09-2015#1284102 << please don't hold back on my account; it's not possible to offend me over some side comment. And regarding The Bible, I've heard it all.

23:20:04 assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 22:18:50; shinohai: I almost responded to his baby Jesus analogy, but didn't want to offend danielpbarron

23:21:42 shinohai: I figured one snappy tweet was enough for him today anyway. First one was pretty good.

23:22:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00074238 = 9.1313 BTC [-]

23:32:36 phf: is there reason why openssl docs snip by Marcel Hernandez is not part of canon?

23:37:02 phf: oh i see what it is , nm

23:43:51 phf: shinohai: you probably have rm_gitignore.patch applied, which removes .gitignore files from src/obj/nogui and nukes the folders along the way?

23:48:25 shinohai: Nah I am experimenting with an arm build and deleted the folder myself, forgot to add them back like a genius.

23:48:34 phf: ah word

23:50:27 BingoBoingo: Weird, I was smoking out front and saw a camaro with the license plate "For USD" or maybe "For USO"

23:53:46 shinohai: Feebs are checking up on ya BingoBoingo

23:55:02 BingoBoingo: shinohai: I just kinda assume that nowadays. Apparently one of the local 5-0 lives in the duplex across from this house, but the only sign I get that he lives there is he stops there on breaks and says he lives there

23:55:44 BingoBoingo: Not the weirdest thing though. The weirdest thing was seeing a train full of open top coal cars going through town from WEST to EAST

23:56:13 shinohai: I feel safe knowing our government has it's eye on you, you're so dangerous and all.

23:57:07 phf: creating jobs

23:58:28 shinohai: Wasting money for no obvious reason.

23:59:43 phf: !shasum wot

23:59:44 assbot: sha256sum wot_users.sql.gz : 19156ac26b3007ee5d78dd7e882c2ba7228f0cef61a2bb2579e08a5e81836c9d

23:59:45 assbot: sha256sum wot_ratings.sql.gz : f76d906ae56e1c2582e66ef3427e0fcd7a5319d69fcfcbec0a7bcf1e02db5de0

23:59:46 assbot: sha256sum trustlist.txt : 97b2a0630c22d02ae4c604a0caa031b72d6db600fdf788ffd78ca939f3d1d348

23:59:54 BingoBoingo: Seriously though why would a train carrying coal move through the area around St Louis from WEST to East?