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Transcript for 24-01-2016, 1158 lines:

00:03:22 phf: fwiw openbsd didn't make it through v-ification either, it was designed to work cross platform, but i believe there were makefile modifications since, that didn't include it. i don't actively run openbsd, so can't integration test the result

00:05:24 danielpbarron: >> me: the universe does not guarantee a solution to things that humans perceive as problems. << personification of 'universe' to replace God

00:06:45 BingoBoingo: lol that third paragraph of disclaimers

00:06:58 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/pPnv0

00:06:59 assbot: Lesson learned from the Classic coup attempt or why Core needs to prepare a GPU only PoW — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZJOJ2X )

00:28:16 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: dude, yes. transient, no.

00:29:00 ben_vulpes: mod6: i do believe that i understand now.

00:29:36 ben_vulpes: 'tis a very surgical strike, if i'm reading correctly. only if the flag is set and the sig does not bear the correct order is order enforced.

00:30:11 ben_vulpes: i'd have probably done something ham-handed and just set the order for the given flag, which would be a bigger change to life-fire use than i think would be warranted.

00:32:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00055547 = 3.1106 BTC [-]

00:33:17 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: i swear that i'm referencing something mircea_popescu said with that line, but i'll be damned if i can find the original.

00:40:43 mod6: phf: your patch(s) did work for me on openbsd. i think, once we have all of trinque's makefiles ready to go with the new (forthcoming) version of V, you and I should work together to get a new vpatch of your openbsd changes submitted.

00:41:21 mod6: The hang up here is that, it basically can't be mirrored in the same place as the rest of the patches; simply because when one sync's up against a mirror your changes will break the rest of the tree.

00:42:09 mod6: so either, we need a separate repository for openbsd patches (not a bad idea), or we should just put the new openbsd vpatch in the mailing list for those who need it -- let them just add it to their V 'patches' directoriy by hand

00:42:16 mod6: *directory

00:42:23 mod6: make sense?

00:42:35 mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: i do believe that i understand now. << cool!

00:42:45 ben_vulpes: fwiw i completely failed to get the openbsd patch to work.

00:43:02 ben_vulpes: but i probably hosed something on that machine way before ever making it to building tri.

00:43:22 mod6: yeah, i think i need to walk you through the exact steps. i did get it to build, and fully sync a chain even. was very happy about that.

00:43:45 shinohai: mod6: i am fully synced nau ^^

00:45:23 mod6: having an alternate to linux is important to me. and i was able to build a static binary, but obviously this doesn't work with the rotor (linux only buildroot). i did build it with the stator.

00:45:43 mod6: anyway, getting a buildable openbsd is a priority of mine. there are just bigger things in front of that for the moment.

00:45:53 mod6: <+shinohai> mod6: i am fully synced nau ^^ << ^6

00:46:02 mod6: does that bring us to 8 nodes now

00:46:03 mod6: ?

00:47:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00055547 = 11.276 BTC [-]

00:47:40 shinohai: and ~ 90% complete to pogo backup of blockchain

00:48:17 mod6: you're just using it as a storage bin for the time being?

00:49:33 shinohai: yeah for now.

00:50:34 shinohai: i just have it cat the latest blkxxx.dat over once every 12 hours.

00:51:16 mod6: ah aight

00:52:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89850 @ 0.000562 = 50.4957 BTC [+] {2}

01:00:53 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/wlGL3Dy.jpg?1

01:00:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1SbUwNY )

01:03:08 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/ZfhmqQa.png

01:03:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1WFAtIt )

01:06:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00056201 = 13.713 BTC [+]

01:12:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43890 @ 0.00056201 = 24.6666 BTC [+]

01:27:02 deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] Money, Trust, and the Wild Wild Web (A socioeconomic history of that SSL, or that green lock symbol in your browser) - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/01/23_money-trust-and-the-wild-wild-web-a-socioeconomic-history-of-that-ssl-or-that-green-lock-symbol-in-your-browser.html

01:29:18 ben_vulpes: a no fuck that lol

01:32:22 shinohai: wash BingoBoingo 's fat pics from your eyes: https://i.imgur.com/zLnxfUb.jpg

01:32:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1K3V3Aq )

01:33:43 ben_vulpes: oh those are hardly even worth mentioning

01:34:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136800 @ 0.00055615 = 76.0813 BTC [-] {3}

01:34:12 BingoBoingo: Seriously been a while since I posted a really bad one

01:34:45 BingoBoingo: !up bagels7

01:34:53 BingoBoingo: !Up raedah

01:34:54 ben_vulpes: man i fucking hate my webshit.

01:35:05 deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] Money, Trust, and the Wild Wild Web (A socioeconomic history of SSL, or that green lock symbol in your browser) - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/01/23_money-trust-and-the-wild-wild-web-a-socioeconomic-history-of-ssl-or-that-green-lock-symbol-in-your-browser.html

01:35:25 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/rg8nJ << Did Ragnar move on?

01:35:26 assbot: Be a part of the thriving underground economy with a darknet job! : SeaJobs ... ( http://bit.ly/1K3Vtqk )

01:42:07 adlai: ;;nethash

01:42:08 gribble: 946829249.036

01:42:17 adlai: cmon chinese chicken!

01:42:41 adlai: ;;google youtube rhcp chinese chicken

01:42:42 gribble: Chinese - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQvLS17wpr0; Chinese Chicken Song - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unW7UYXSQNY; How to cook Chicken and Mango Stri-fry recipe - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNiyMCq_KtI

01:44:09 *: adlai fails, twice in a row. too fuck to drunk? !down

01:45:24 adlai: ;;later tell mike_c candle charts outta sync, comment moderation constipation?

01:45:25 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:45:40 adlai: anybody know the guy? the site is *almost* functional in absentia, but not quite enough

01:49:23 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND the inclusion of teachers and educators with auditory and relative business skills pertaining to contemporary Black musical styles." << relative business skills? what are those

01:49:48 ben_vulpes: also looks like the storied Oberlin conservatory is about to turn into Rap Kollege

01:51:14 adlai: fwiw friend who teaches classics at a usg 'prep school' attests to having had a student excused from any and all performance standards due to APD (which stands for 'auditory processing disorder')

01:51:39 adlai: tis the new AD[h]D

01:51:39 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND an online database that outlines the deadlines, dates, and forms critical for the successful academic journey of Black students" because we can't be arsed to figure it out ourselves, read syllabi when they're handed out or at all, and because of course knowing to do all of the above is something we were not prepared for in life and this must be rectified at the expense of everyone else attending the school.

01:52:06 ben_vulpes: lol required events

01:52:10 ben_vulpes: who goes to required freshmen events?

01:53:02 ben_vulpes: woo hoo hoo fifteen

01:53:40 adlai: fifteen whats?

01:54:22 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND a change in the fundamental ways that we asses knowledge at this institution, starting with a student evaluation of the effectiveness of the grading system. We will have oversight over the results of that evaluation. If the results state that the grading system is not reflective of this institution's student body, we DEMAND an immediate change of that grading system."

01:54:25 ben_vulpes: grades are racist!

01:54:33 BingoBoingo: deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/0RT1A2Q.txt

01:54:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuTlnC )

01:54:51 deedbot-: accepted: 1

02:00:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8608 @ 0.0005603 = 4.8231 BTC [+] {2}

02:01:54 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND the renaming of these specific academic buildings"

02:03:05 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that a mandatory professional development program be developed for faculty across departments in the College & Conservatory that will help facilitate their udnerstanding of the ways in which racial capitalism, settler colonialism, and other forms of violent oppression inform and shape instructional methods for the disciplinary content of their courses. We further DEMAND that the content of this information be integrated in

02:03:05 ben_vulpes: their coursework."

02:04:01 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND a 6% annual increase in grant offers vs. loan offers for Black Students"

02:04:07 polarbeard: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381219 << It turns out shitty rotation is there: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771

02:04:07 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 16:56:17; PeterL: does trb debug.log grow infinitely?

02:04:08 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuTHee )

02:04:32 ben_vulpes: !s compression

02:04:33 assbot: 42 results for 'compression' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=compression

02:04:40 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you laugh, but THAT was how we got xyz-studies in the '70s usa

02:05:08 ben_vulpes: i'm not laughing i'm horrified

02:05:25 ben_vulpes: i thought there'd be about another 5 years before things got this nutso

02:05:28 BingoBoingo: And seriously Oberlin historically has been a trailblazer in surrendering to such demands

02:07:22 ben_vulpes: tenure for an artist in residence, nice

02:08:33 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that Black student leaders be provided a[n] $8.20/hr stipend for their continuous organizing efforts around the well[-]being of Black people on Oberlin's campus, city and beyond" << man that is some low-dough shit

02:08:37 ben_vulpes: why not 15? 20?

02:08:44 asciilifeform: 2B!

02:09:09 asciilifeform: or why not demand bottomless bank account ?

02:09:18 ben_vulpes: that /is/ the demand.

02:09:30 asciilifeform: i remember reading as a kid, about some south american dictator who gave his phriendz such a thing, and being horrified

02:09:42 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that each worker, temporary or permanent working for the College Dining Hall Services be given a meal every work shift"

02:09:51 asciilifeform: worker? work?

02:10:02 asciilifeform: what kind of crackpot revolutionaries are these

02:10:08 asciilifeform: who still speak of.. work

02:10:26 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that the workload given to employees be reflective of their abilities...should not be given a workload that they cannot handle."

02:10:42 ben_vulpes: "all employees be given healthcarea and insurance"

02:11:16 ben_vulpes: DEMAND immediate firing of: ... Gerri Johnson...for their rude behavior towards Black Students

02:11:59 ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that Oberlin College stop functioning as a gentrifying institution"

02:12:17 ben_vulpes: "the immediate implementation of a free bussing system"

02:12:46 ben_vulpes: ah jeez

02:12:49 ben_vulpes: okay, phew.

02:13:43 ben_vulpes: too goddamn funny.

02:15:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79900 @ 0.00056034 = 44.7712 BTC [+] {2}

02:18:33 mircea_popescu: in the same news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/55410531c948328ed44c62d2ada58609/tumblr_myt1r9blgZ1suzvb1o1_1280.jpg

02:18:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuUuM1 )

02:18:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50200 @ 0.00055513 = 27.8675 BTC [-] {3}

02:19:29 polarbeard: fatsideboob

02:21:40 funkenstein_: ben_vulpes thanks for lulz of the day :)

02:21:46 mircea_popescu: you mean the girl is fat ?

02:22:22 polarbeard: no, only her side boob

02:22:41 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383446 << wait, explain this to me ?

02:22:41 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 00:41:21; mod6: The hang up here is that, it basically can't be mirrored in the same place as the rest of the patches; simply because when one sync's up against a mirror your changes will break the rest of the tree.

02:23:56 mircea_popescu: we can't be the first people doing a multi-platform release.

02:24:47 asciilifeform: but we ~might~ be the first people who won't tolerate pestilential #ifdefs OR duplicate trees for it

02:25:25 BingoBoingo: ^

02:25:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what do we do ?

02:25:53 mircea_popescu: ;;nethash

02:25:54 gribble: 949473454.023

02:26:17 asciilifeform: openbsd won't run linux elf, like netbsd ?

02:26:20 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ?

02:26:37 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Only i386 will.

02:26:40 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383446 << wait, explain this to me ? << the idea is that our makefiles, or whatever build scripts will utilize V to build inside of the rotor (a linux thing) - the source must be compatable with that. phf's openbsd scripts are not compatible with this.

02:26:40 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 00:41:21; mod6: The hang up here is that, it basically can't be mirrored in the same place as the rest of the patches; simply because when one sync's up against a mirror your changes will break the rest of the tree.

02:26:51 asciilifeform: everything i've so far experienced with openbsd suggests that

02:26:53 asciilifeform: it is retarded

02:26:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383495 << rap "industree" is dead in the water so all the wanna-be succeeders at "the game" want federal dollars to prop up their delusion.

02:26:57 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 01:49:23; ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND the inclusion of teachers and educators with auditory and relative business skills pertaining to contemporary Black musical styles." << relative business skills? what are those

02:27:13 asciilifeform: and that it is only quasi-works for a few very specific use cases

02:27:23 asciilifeform: perhaps it was once a thing, i cannot say

02:27:24 mod6: however, if he and I work together, we could possibly get some patches in place that would check to see what the local environment is and if __BSD__, then apply, otherwise, do not.

02:27:44 asciilifeform: pretty much every single 'openbsdism' i've so far run into screams braindamage

02:27:54 mircea_popescu: mod6 so basically we can't use our convenient makefiles to build the pressed source ; openbsd people gotta finagle their own build chain to get the same source to compile and link ?

02:28:05 asciilifeform: (~different~ braindamage than in linux, and this is appealing to some people)

02:28:07 mod6: yes.

02:28:21 mircea_popescu: well yeah, seems this will have to be separately maintained.

02:28:33 asciilifeform: just like the nintendo port.

02:28:39 mircea_popescu: i suspect it'd be a horrid mistake to try and merge the notion of a press and the notion of a makefile.

02:29:03 mod6: and further, the changes that we wanted to make with V (where we mechanically check to see the patch was applied correctly by checking the hashes) also will not work on bsd unless a bunch more alterations are made, but this is a side issue.

02:29:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct, they are entirely different processes with just enough superficially in common to lead n00bz to conceptual perdition

02:29:15 pete_dushenski: https://medium.com/@wob/the-sad-state-of-web-development-1603a861d29f#.b8m91c8mi << nyooz at 11

02:29:16 assbot: The Sad State of Web Development — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1nGEkJi )

02:29:20 mircea_popescu: mod6 how can that possibly happen ?!

02:29:39 mod6: this is because BSD's sha/md commands spit out the digests in different way than on linux.

02:29:45 mircea_popescu: oh ffs.

02:30:30 ben_vulpes: yeah, i ran into this.

02:30:32 ben_vulpes: needs -q flags.

02:31:09 mircea_popescu: so basically, this should prolly be on the wiki or what.

02:31:47 mod6: linux:

02:31:47 mod6: # sha256sum blah.txt

02:31:48 mod6: 827aa4d3ea7c8b7177abe0e2d1d87f45857755df32956fbc54e7a1c10981e6b4 blah.txt

02:32:09 mod6: bsd

02:32:10 mod6: sha256 blah.txt

02:32:14 mod6: SHA256 (blah.txt) = 827aa4d3ea7c8b7177abe0e2d1d87f45857755df32956fbc54e7a1c10981e6b4

02:32:16 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (~different~ braindamage than in linux, and this is appealing to some people) << This is pretty much its appeal to me. I have modest needs as far as necessary hardware and necessary software go.

02:32:25 mod6: so a minor annoyance there. but alas.

02:33:00 *: adlai notes that the three laws are phrased as guidelines for builders, rather than code for execution

02:33:04 BingoBoingo: Also Openbsd base system is complete enough to make internet on mars

02:33:09 adlai: ... wrong chanl (or maybe not?)

02:33:21 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 so basically we can't use our convenient makefiles to build the pressed source ; openbsd people gotta finagle their own build chain to get the same source to compile and link ? << and further more, they'll never have the same build process like we want.

02:34:19 mod6: because they can not use buildroot... at least, I don't *think* they can, easily at lesat. they could turn on Linux Binary Comapt mode and perhaps some other kernel tweeks. would need to be looked a.t.

02:34:22 mircea_popescu: mod6 thinking about this, the problem slowly becomes that not only does bitcoin gravitate towards bitcoinos, but it puts some serious problems to any attempt at wide support.

02:34:41 mod6: for sure. our best bet, is bitcoinos.

02:34:50 pete_dushenski: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/users/2016/01/vr_porn_is_here_does_virtual_sex_really_feel_real.html?curator=MediaREDEF <-- same 'amanda hess' chica as --> http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/18/you-need-an-ambien-to-sleep-because-you-bought-the-trappings-of-power-instead-of-the-real-thing/

02:34:51 assbot: VR porn is here. Does virtual sex really feel real? ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuVgJ4 )

02:34:52 assbot: You need an Ambien to sleep because you bought the trappings of power instead of the real thing. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuVgJ8 )

02:35:09 pete_dushenski: in related news, http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/05/cyberbll.html is a dead link

02:35:11 assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuVhws )

02:35:11 mircea_popescu: the problem with that is that well... nobody'd want to bash in bitcoinos. so we'll end up with a very strange catamaran of a stack.

02:35:23 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski do you mind ?

02:35:25 adlai: pete_dushenski: more helpful to say where you encountered the deadlink :)

02:35:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am actually dealing with precisely this as we speak

02:35:59 danielpbarron: pete_dushenski, follow assbot's bitly link

02:36:02 asciilifeform: dusted off draft of something i had a while back, because mircea_popescu mentioned it and proclaimed that it isn't wholly retarded

02:36:13 mircea_popescu: which was this ?

02:36:26 asciilifeform: tinyscheme welded onto trb

02:36:39 asciilifeform: draft name on my disk was.. shiva

02:36:41 mircea_popescu: ah, right.

02:36:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, for the first time so far it occurs to me we might be setting ourselves up for failure here. because of this support / os issue.

02:37:02 asciilifeform: it will be a ~shell~

02:37:05 asciilifeform: in trb.

02:37:24 pete_dushenski: my apologies for the linkspam interruption

02:37:48 asciilifeform: only switched on, with command line flag, if you are really ready to meet allah;

02:37:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform logically : a) you won't want to ssh into the node and do your bash there (providing it even has ssh). this means you'll be stuck using something else on top of bitcoin-os.

02:38:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is elementarily not so

02:38:15 mircea_popescu: obviously, as a general thing, people MIGHT consider running a bitcoin node on any box they run.

02:38:27 mircea_popescu: but if bitcoin can not be run there... well...

02:38:27 asciilifeform: the bare metal variant will expose shiva shell through one of the serial ports

02:38:39 asciilifeform: which can be attached to whatever you like, e.g., a unix box running sshd

02:38:48 asciilifeform: sort of what folks do with routers and factory robots today

02:38:55 mircea_popescu: hm

02:39:20 mircea_popescu: so then the model here is to have fundamentally speaking a pogo/arm-ish level bitcoind/os, that doesn't really natively build on anything without a laundry list of finicking ?

02:39:33 asciilifeform: builds ~on~ whatever the fuck you like

02:39:44 asciilifeform: rotor does this already

02:39:44 mircea_popescu: i mean software-on not hardware-on

02:39:51 asciilifeform: software-on.

02:39:56 asciilifeform: rotor will build on nintendo.

02:39:58 mircea_popescu: then what is the bsd problem ?

02:40:04 asciilifeform: building ~for~

02:40:09 mircea_popescu: huh ?

02:40:24 asciilifeform: iirc nobody succeeded in building ~for~ it ?

02:40:47 mircea_popescu: so you bring up your *bsd box, run rotor on it, does it build or doesn't it.

02:40:48 asciilifeform: or hm, looks like userland caltrops prevent even v from running there

02:41:04 mircea_popescu: right. so no, rotor doesn't "do this already".

02:41:08 asciilifeform: aha

02:41:28 asciilifeform: to which i say that it is braindamaged to expect the thing to build on arbitrary crud os

02:41:34 asciilifeform: what, i also do a winblows toolchain now ?

02:41:44 asciilifeform: vms?

02:41:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if someone has a box that they're using, they can't run a bitcoin node there unless they run it under bitcoinos ?

02:42:17 asciilifeform: build the linux variant ?

02:42:27 asciilifeform: understand, if someone ~wants~ to maintain a nintendo port, let'em

02:42:33 mircea_popescu: "bitcoinos" is a symbol here. may mean linux, whatever the fuck it means.

02:42:45 asciilifeform: but 'runs for everybody on every kind of dead animal in a box' is a dead end goal

02:43:15 mircea_popescu: and so what, we're officially targetting "anything that's unix post bsd pre systemd" ?

02:43:24 asciilifeform: i dare say that expecting a vaguely linuxlike ~build environment~ is not unreasonable

02:43:47 mircea_popescu: and so then bsd support, like windows or crapple support, would be a bolt-on ?

02:43:53 asciilifeform: if somebody wants to maintain a parallel universe 'v' et al where the bsd flags make it go, i will take off my hat to them.

02:43:54 asciilifeform: aha.

02:44:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well apparently phf was half-trying but no hats.

02:44:31 mircea_popescu: phf you seriously considering maintaining a bsd rotor thing ?

02:46:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61500 @ 0.00056137 = 34.5243 BTC [+] {3}

02:46:36 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo srsly why are you putting your uni library in the deedbot.

02:46:58 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So that I don't have to link fiat uni web sites.

02:47:14 mircea_popescu: hm.

02:47:26 BingoBoingo: If reddit is to be denied links so ought they.

02:47:47 BingoBoingo: In case the documents get "Oberlin'd"

02:48:11 *: adlai notes that a) archive.is works for backup b) deedbot provides verification alone c) the blockchain works for paranoid-max backup, if you pay your way

02:48:44 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah the part where your otherwise reasonable idea breaks down is where deedbot is not really a webservice

02:48:51 mircea_popescu: even if currently available on web endpoint as well.

02:50:56 BingoBoingo: Well, librarybot is still 18-36 months out.

02:51:35 mircea_popescu: anyway. i suppose this entire compatibility general issue will need more thinking about.

02:52:07 *: adlai is currently working on blockchain-databot or whatever's a better name

02:52:17 mod6: yeah, very much so. a good conversation to have though, as our future roadmap depends on some early-on food for thought.

02:52:24 adlai: SaaS (spam, spam, blockchain, spam)

02:53:41 mircea_popescu: mod6 to my mind it's almost as if we bit a recursion girder over here. "v presses source". "ok how do i build it ?" "uh... i guess you need a v-make genesis and follow that for your os." "ok... how do i do that ?" "well... get v-make-make and..."

02:53:46 mod6: i guess my thought is, if we wanna make bitcoinos - we will end up forking either SVR4 or BSD, and then getting married.

02:54:03 adlai: the general goals being - get the data in there, as cheaply as possible, without same standards as http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490 and some reasonable method to random-access without having to reconstruct the entire turd

02:54:05 assbot: Loper OS » Practical Blockchain Telegraphy. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LY30Hl )

02:54:14 adlai: s/out// blah

02:54:27 mod6: so we may think of a different way of doing something like this, maybe it's not a full OS of sorts, maybe its a embedded deal.

02:54:28 asciilifeform: adlai: why not also suggest placing it on mars ?

02:54:31 asciilifeform: cheaper.

02:54:36 mircea_popescu: mod6 here's the problem with "Bitcoinos" : you will want it adapted for bitcoin needs, which necessarily means it won't be your tool of choice for doing almost anything else, which necessarily means maintaining it will be a pain in the ass.

02:54:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: trying to wiggle out from under this is misguided imho.

02:54:58 asciilifeform: it is a logical necessity.

02:55:11 mircea_popescu: im not making any calls here, just running the horse around the field.

02:55:12 adlai: asciilifeform: because large amounts of data are worth paying small amounts of btc to immortalize, today; and small amounts of data will always be worth paying large amounts of btc to immortalize - even tomorrow.

02:55:13 asciilifeform: just like missile guidance needs a particular kind of os

02:55:17 asciilifeform: that you won't play tetris on

02:55:24 asciilifeform: or even compile itself on.

02:55:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86600 @ 0.000562 = 48.6692 BTC [+] {2}

02:55:42 *: adlai also got an upfront btc donation to do this so ~shrug~

02:55:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but this faces you with the unpleasant choice of whether to not play tetris or not run bitcoin on your homebox.

02:56:18 asciilifeform: i already have this choice with many other things

02:56:29 mircea_popescu: see, that';s thje bitch here : missile guidance has to be on missile and there only. there's no benefit from it running on jane's computor.

02:56:31 asciilifeform: e.g., i have a set of boxes for running winblowz virii on.

02:56:37 asciilifeform: that are not fit for any other purpose

02:56:43 mircea_popescu: nevertheless.

02:56:54 asciilifeform: and many folks keep similar winblowz box for games, etc

02:57:13 adlai: mircea_popescu: ever heard of 4th gen ATMs? (not the kind that gets skimmed)

02:57:15 mircea_popescu: there's no space in the future for windows.

02:57:23 mircea_popescu: so i'm not terribly interested in that line of thought.

02:57:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mentioned on account of separate-box

02:57:42 asciilifeform: there is no space in the future for commodore 64, and yet i have one

02:57:48 asciilifeform: that was not the point.

02:58:02 mircea_popescu: but i'm discussing YOUR HOME BOX. not some rando box you run.

02:58:14 asciilifeform: from where comes this perverse scenario of 'one box'

02:58:21 asciilifeform: serious toilet-kitchen separation problem

02:58:31 mircea_popescu: do you have a system you work on ?

02:58:34 asciilifeform: folks who 'one box' HAVE NO BUSINESS with bitcoin

02:58:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have several.

02:58:52 mircea_popescu: sure.

02:59:10 mircea_popescu: so you want to not be able to run bitcoin on them ?

02:59:28 asciilifeform: perfectly happy to run it in vm on them, if it comes to it

02:59:40 asciilifeform: (if we give it own os, with custom fs, etc)

02:59:49 asciilifeform: the way i presently run msdos.

02:59:52 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380428

02:59:52 assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 00:00:44; BingoBoingo: So next year will be 3 months to sync, 2018 4 months, 2019 5 months etc.

02:59:57 mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be a shitton cheaper to not need a vm layer if at all avoidable ?

03:00:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not if it gangrenes the code with #ifdefs.

03:00:08 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 here's the problem with "Bitcoinos" : you will want it adapted for bitcoin needs, which necessarily means it won't be your tool of choice for doing almost anything else, which necessarily means maintaining it will be a pain in the ass. << agree. I think that what I'm getting at is maybe it ends up being like cisco ios.

03:00:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is ifdefs REALLY the only way to do this ?

03:00:27 polarbeard: bitcoinos would be based on what? I think that's the interesting part

03:00:32 asciilifeform: the actual speed penalty of vmization is perhaps 10%

03:00:38 mod6: its a thing, it gets flashed on to some firmware, and it basically just is, you can talk to it and use it, but it is its own thing.

03:00:50 mircea_popescu: mod6 this i called the "pogo" approach to it.

03:01:00 mircea_popescu: polarbeard that's an even sadder story.

03:01:02 mod6: right. exactly similar to this.

03:01:04 polarbeard: unikernel?

03:01:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bsd is retarded from the linux pov (or, if you're a bsd aficionado, vice-versa)

03:01:18 mod6: yah yah, watch it ;)

03:01:20 asciilifeform: polarbeard: based on trb.

03:01:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i guess most of the problem comes from that chasm. we're not the first to meet it.

03:01:43 polarbeard: how do you talk with the cpu, memory, network, disk?

03:02:03 mircea_popescu: polarbeard most of those will have to be written de novo, basically. esp the filesystem.

03:02:18 asciilifeform: polarbeard: you open a book and read ? start with, e.g., tannenbaum ?

03:02:22 mircea_popescu: (or from a security perspective, esp the cpu and memory)

03:02:33 asciilifeform: polarbeard: or go to school, if you're the sort of person who goes in for that

03:02:35 polarbeard: lol, ok, gl

03:02:37 asciilifeform: (i happen to have done both)

03:03:42 mircea_popescu: so basically my tentative takeaway here is that we'll mostly try to maintain broad linux-compatibility and try and help interested parties keep the wheels oiled and turning on stuff like bsd.

03:04:10 mod6: yeah, for now. seems the most viable approach.

03:04:24 mircea_popescu: but riddle me this : how does user know his openbsd make process isn't satan's own ?

03:04:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94029 @ 0.00056321 = 52.9581 BTC [+] {3}

03:04:53 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383614 << whoawut?

03:04:53 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:36:26; asciilifeform: tinyscheme welded onto trb

03:04:54 mircea_popescu: seems we're slowly falling exactly into http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382912

03:04:54 assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:15:49; mircea_popescu: dude speaking of "provability" bs. FSB are "provably secure" because it can be proven they're at least as hard as regular syndrome decoding. which is np complete. while we don't actually know if THAT is in fact resolvable in polynomial time or not, nevertheless... PROVEDLY SECURE!!11

03:04:55 asciilifeform: how does linux user know ?

03:05:02 mircea_popescu: "v is provably secure. now go build it!"

03:05:08 mod6: this is perhaps were a seperate branch of V for bsd only comes in. or maybe i misunderstand.

03:05:12 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: thread concerned an experiment

03:05:21 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that i am carrying out presently

03:05:30 ben_vulpes: how does tinyscheme couple into ri source?

03:05:34 asciilifeform: with hands.

03:05:38 mircea_popescu: mod6 in the end we'll need a v thread for the source, one for the manual, one for linux make one for bsd make etc ? like 4 ?

03:05:46 ben_vulpes: this is a wonder i would greatly like to see myself

03:06:04 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i got it to compile ages ago, the tricky bit is to add useful tendrils into it

03:06:17 asciilifeform: so you can meaningfully probe the living trb

03:06:37 ben_vulpes: this'd be hooks into running bitcoind memory space and such?

03:06:38 mod6: mircea_popescu: excellent point.

03:06:40 asciilifeform: it runs in own thread, you telnet into it

03:06:41 *: ben_vulpes mind boggles

03:06:45 asciilifeform: very barbaric

03:06:57 ben_vulpes: the shit these reversers can do

03:07:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you added tinyscheme to have sexpr rather than json, and now you telnet into scheme ?

03:07:18 asciilifeform: i'm not even 100% convinced that it isn't braindamaged yet, must be seen

03:07:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's my motherfucking tx debugger

03:07:37 asciilifeform: dont like it, write me a new one, aha

03:07:54 mircea_popescu: lol i'ma cook you some toilet soup in a moment!

03:08:06 asciilifeform: mmm.

03:08:09 mod6: haha

03:08:59 mircea_popescu: understand mod6 : the thing that scared me above isnm't per se the fact that now we need 4, but that well... it grew. might be we're sitting on some unbounded complexity / a loose recursion tail.

03:09:09 mircea_popescu: next week, 12 ? 255 ?

03:09:21 mod6: sure, the whole: 1, 2, inf. problem.

03:09:37 mircea_popescu: so this has to be pondered upon.

03:09:37 asciilifeform: sorta why i say it has to converge.

03:09:38 asciilifeform: to 1.

03:09:41 asciilifeform: incl. hardware.

03:09:56 asciilifeform: as in, canonical ~physical object~

03:09:59 asciilifeform: bits included.

03:09:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing converges if the path to convergence is expensive.

03:10:11 asciilifeform: aha, didn't say it has any danger of happening.

03:10:16 asciilifeform: but that 'has to'

03:10:22 asciilifeform: to work as intended.

03:10:25 mircea_popescu: are you an engineer or a priest today ?

03:11:14 *: asciilifeform is probably both, at least in re: professional life

03:11:30 mircea_popescu: check it out, he no longer cleaves things :D

03:11:42 asciilifeform: i promise to say if i ever manage to cleave these.

03:12:39 mircea_popescu: incidentally in today's random : https://projects.csail.mit.edu/church/wiki/Models_with_Unbounded_Complexity

03:12:41 assbot: Models with Unbounded Complexity - Church Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuWZhm )

03:13:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's been playing with Church lang ?!

03:13:43 mod6: asciilifeform: so are we basically, with rotor, able to not only build a static bitcoind, but couldn't we also build a flashable rom that contains said static binary - a flashable universe so to speak?

03:13:58 mircea_popescu: no. i deny all such allegations at this time.

03:14:00 asciilifeform: mod6: this was my original objective with pogo

03:14:07 mod6: right.

03:14:12 mircea_popescu: mod6 that's what started all this

03:14:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68850 @ 0.00055508 = 38.2173 BTC [-] {3}

03:14:59 mod6: yah, i still think this might be a resonable path. but lot of thought still must go into this whole thing. tonight was a great discussion on it tho.

03:15:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lulzy link, it very closely resembles an undergrad homework of mine

03:15:46 mod6: does anyone else think that this is *not* a decent consideration at least? even taking into consideration the issues we ran into with pogo?

03:15:58 mircea_popescu: what do you mean ?

03:16:25 mod6: eh, sorry: does the idea of a flashable universe built from rotor still make sense.

03:16:52 mircea_popescu: definitely.

03:17:34 mod6: i think it could be pretty neat, in the end.

03:18:28 mod6: you buy a flash rom (from S.NSA? or from local place you trust??) then get V, build a flashable universe, flash the card, drop it into some device and then you can talk to it over some wire from your work station

03:19:03 mircea_popescu: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771 << this doesn't actually work, i've seen gb+ debug.logs

03:19:04 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuTHee )

03:19:14 asciilifeform: mod6: the principal obstacle is the lack of a computer.

03:19:14 mod6: (im just spitballing here)

03:19:19 asciilifeform: we don't have a computer.

03:19:20 polarbeard: mircea_popescu: good because I'm removing it

03:19:31 mircea_popescu: it really doesn't belong anywhere.

03:19:36 mircea_popescu: if (file && GetFilesize(file) > 10 * 1000000)

03:19:44 mircea_popescu: can't even figure out a magic number, needs 2.

03:19:50 polarbeard: do we agree in using an external tool for this?

03:20:03 mircea_popescu: polarbeard do you understand how v and wot works ?\

03:20:50 polarbeard: I guess I do, but please follow

03:21:04 mod6: <+asciilifeform> we don't have a computer. << well, this goes back to the same thing. currently we're married to some linux varient to do (future) building of flashable universe

03:21:10 mircea_popescu: to put it in you'll have to sign it. if it turns out later to have a hole, people will negrate you.

03:21:13 mircea_popescu: so read it eight times.

03:21:53 asciilifeform: polarbeard: where i come from we have a proverb, 'the sapper errs - once.'

03:22:09 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2016/the-sad-state-of-bitcoin-code/#selection-5307.1-5307.37 << taking out area #5307 ftw.

03:22:10 assbot: The sad state of Bitcoin code on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuXsjC )

03:22:15 polarbeard: I'm building better logging in two steps, first I lay out better and prefixed messages, people can review that

03:22:31 mircea_popescu: polarbeard you'll still have to sign it. there's no way out of this.

03:23:00 polarbeard: sure, no problem with that

03:23:17 mircea_popescu: so as they say, don't sign anything you might regret.

03:23:27 mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a lot more faith in code someone read than in code someone wrote.

03:23:38 polarbeard: oh well, my soul has already an owner

03:23:38 mircea_popescu: the former implies the latter.

03:25:21 polarbeard: returning to the retarded-rotator, will somebody miss it?

03:25:45 polarbeard: it supposedly overwrites the log and (how considerate) leaves you a few lines from the old one

03:25:50 mod6: not if someone builds something that works, and does not break anything.

03:26:30 mircea_popescu: no.

03:26:33 polarbeard: well, I use logrotate, but I'm a linux-lowlife

03:26:58 mircea_popescu: incidentally, if something like char pch[200000]; is inside an if, what does the compiler usually do ? allocate it at program start or not ?

03:28:07 polarbeard: inside a func? has to be called

03:28:26 mircea_popescu: and so if it can\t find 200k contiguos this actually fucking crashes ?

03:29:30 mod6: it should ask the os for 200k of mem, this should be allocated in pages (usually 4k ea. iirc) it may not be contiguos

03:29:47 mircea_popescu: ah it doesn't want to get the whole byte ?

03:29:50 mircea_popescu: i thought it did.

03:29:58 mod6: no it shouldnt crash unless there is no more ram left available in the entire computer.

03:30:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00056432 = 21.9238 BTC [+] {3}

03:30:05 mod6: i could be wrong here.

03:30:34 mod6: asciilifeform: ?

03:30:46 mircea_popescu: "// "Never go to sea with two chronometers; take one or three." Our three time sources are: System clock ; Median of other nodes's clocks ; The user (asking the user to fix the system clock if the first two disagree)"

03:30:52 mircea_popescu: the more one reads, the less one likes.

03:31:00 mircea_popescu: seriously, MEDIAN ? seriously, this is three ? fuck me.

03:31:44 mircea_popescu: "never go to sea with two clocks. take one or three. so we're taking two but one has a special button to press to ask it if it's really sure. if it is it squaks audibly."

03:31:57 mircea_popescu: "at least most of the time".

03:32:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383521 << collapse is an exponential not a linear process.

03:32:47 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:05:25; ben_vulpes: i thought there'd be about another 5 years before things got this nutso

03:34:08 polarbeard: lol, I'm following the rabbit hole and it seems pszSetDataDir is not set if -datadir not given

03:34:15 polarbeard: therefore never shittyrotating

03:34:47 polarbeard: mircea_popescu: do you use -datadir?

03:35:03 mircea_popescu: which is why nobody uses datadir, because wtf you do with munged 200kb logfiles.

03:35:04 mod6: i do:

03:35:05 mod6: # du -sh /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin/debug.log

03:35:06 mod6: 12G /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin/debug.log

03:35:15 polarbeard: ugh

03:35:28 polarbeard: you use datadir but give the default dir?

03:35:47 mircea_popescu: oh it doesn't work anyway ?

03:35:55 mod6: no, i use /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin since mine is in an attached volume.

03:36:07 mod6: not ~/.bitcoin

03:36:55 polarbeard: allright, then shittyRotate() is there to give hope

03:37:10 mircea_popescu: maybe it only works on windows 95.

03:38:24 polarbeard: surely was introduced for it, windows users see logs as a feature

03:38:41 mod6: which btw for testers is kinda nice -- you can make a really large volume and attach to which ever instance at will and keep your OS small, or swap it out easily without ever having to clobber your build/sandbox area

03:43:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00056453 = 13.2947 BTC [+]

03:45:09 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: the principal obstacle is the lack of a computer. << oh you're saying a target arch here? or?

03:47:27 polarbeard: the quality of the error messages: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#1299

03:47:28 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1RGn4R7 )

03:48:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74209 @ 0.00056453 = 41.8932 BTC [+]

03:48:40 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383835 << where ?

03:48:40 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:26:58; mircea_popescu: incidentally, if something like char pch[200000]; is inside an if, what does the compiler usually do ? allocate it at program start or not ?

03:48:56 asciilifeform: the answer depends on whether it is a global declaration or inside a function

03:49:53 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383837 << if it were inside a function, the ~stack~ must contain that many contiguous free bts

03:49:53 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:28:26; mircea_popescu: and so if it can\t find 200k contiguos this actually fucking crashes ?

03:49:58 asciilifeform: or overflows.

03:50:40 asciilifeform: if ~global~, the process data segment will be stretched to fit, and if os does not like this, process will get oomkilled on load

03:50:51 mod6: the only place i can find that is in util.cpp:ShrinkDebugFile()

03:51:10 polarbeard: that's the one

03:51:15 mod6: char pch[200000];

03:51:24 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383848 << 1st time i saw this, i misread, 'two cocks'

03:51:24 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:31:44; mircea_popescu: "never go to sea with two clocks. take one or three. so we're taking two but one has a special button to press to ask it if it's really sure. if it is it squaks audibly."

03:52:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383869 << we don't have a computer that you can buy that makes this concept have a point

03:52:36 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:45:09; mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: the principal obstacle is the lack of a computer. << oh you're saying a target arch here? or?

03:52:45 asciilifeform: (the os in flash thing)

03:54:53 mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383837 << if it were inside a function, the ~stack~ must contain that many contiguous free bts << i guess this makes sense. i dunno why i was thinking that it might not be.

03:54:53 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:28:26; mircea_popescu: and so if it can\t find 200k contiguos this actually fucking crashes ?

03:55:14 mod6: i gotta read up on paging again i guess.

03:57:53 asciilifeform: mod6: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_prologue

03:57:53 assbot: Function prologue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuYThX )

03:58:00 asciilifeform: ^ basic mechanics

03:58:32 asciilifeform: http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/09/06/stack-frame-layout-on-x86-64 << better picture

03:58:33 assbot: Stack frame layout on x86-64 - Eli Bendersky's website ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuYTP4 )

03:58:38 asciilifeform: ^ for n00bz

03:59:50 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_prologue << yup, know about this from asm stuff i've done.

03:59:50 assbot: Function prologue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuYThX )

03:59:54 mod6: thanks for the links tho

04:00:14 asciilifeform: so then you know what it means to allocate on the stack.

04:01:05 mod6: ya, i think i was just confusing some kern shit that i'd read.

04:03:35 mod6: memory allocation is done by the os at runtime. when you ask for some bytes, there are kern mechinisms that handle this request, are there not?

04:03:46 asciilifeform: heap

04:03:55 asciilifeform: ;;google sbrk

04:03:56 gribble: sbrk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sbrk; sbrk(2): change data segment size - Linux man page: http://linux.die.net/man/2/sbrk; brk - The Open Group: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xsh/brk.html

04:05:41 *: mod6 pulls out the book

04:08:10 asciilifeform: and hah, looks like mircea_popescu said 'inside an if'

04:08:21 asciilifeform: so this means in function, on the stack.

04:11:33 mod6: ya

04:14:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.000557 = 24.3409 BTC [-] {2}

04:16:17 mod6: maybe i was just remembering this: "Most machine architectures provide a contiguous virutal address space for processes. Some machine architectures, however, choose to partition visibly a process's virtual address space into regious termed segments [intel, 1984].

04:17:54 mod6: Such segments usually must be phyiscally contiguous in main memory and must begin at fixed addresses. We shall be concenred with only those systems that do not visibly segment their virtual address space."

04:18:25 mod6: *shrug*

04:19:11 mod6: This is from: Design & Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System by McKusick

04:45:58 mod6: anyway, yah, its not like it called malloc or whatever, its on the stack. i am retard.

04:58:20 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb

04:58:28 gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2582.0, vol: 67307.60100000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2582.0

04:58:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33007 @ 0.00055871 = 18.4413 BTC [+] {2}

05:02:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52730 @ 0.00056453 = 29.7677 BTC [+]

05:12:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it was inside function.

05:17:30 mircea_popescu: but in happier news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/0ff0aff9dffec8a9a978794148cd219e/tumblr_mjw7i4bmlm1qfaf1fo1_1280.jpg

05:17:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsMkm8 )

05:19:26 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the gf-nordstorm graph is pretty cool, you made it ?

05:20:27 mircea_popescu: apparently not.

05:23:19 ben_vulpes: i most certainly did!

05:26:13 mircea_popescu: then why does it say blqabla.com on the bottom?

05:28:20 ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/01/23_money-trust-and-the-wild-wild-web-a-socioeconomic-history-of-ssl-or-that-green-lock-symbol-in-your-browser.html#fn.7

05:28:21 assbot: Money, Trust, and the Wild Wild Web (A socioeconomic history of SSL, or that green lock symbol in your browser) ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsN7n0 )

05:28:23 *: BingoBoingo finally stitching together popular hegelian piece since slow news weekend

05:28:50 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: footnote just for you, baby

05:29:33 ben_vulpes: hrm that reorder's the piece's footnotes

05:29:39 ben_vulpes: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

05:29:45 ben_vulpes: i fucking hate my webthing.

05:30:49 mircea_popescu: that;s a good thing.

05:32:18 ben_vulpes: why? people's links will break if i go back and add intervening footnotes.

05:32:58 mircea_popescu: and references break if guy goes back and adds pages in the middle of his book wtf.

05:34:01 mircea_popescu: and if you write "shoez rulez" today and then change it to "shoez sux srsly" next week, people's idea of your idea of shoes also breaks.

05:35:37 ben_vulpes: so what, i ditch current shitty static site generator and tell everyone who linked to shit previously to get fucked and find the new linxz?

05:35:58 ben_vulpes: i thought la serenissima's webfacists hated linkrot

05:36:02 BingoBoingo: Kinda why eventual #b-a library where people put text from outside the wot for preservation from molestation would have some similarity to deeding.

05:36:06 ben_vulpes: i personally dgaf. it's my server.

05:36:15 ben_vulpes: move the files wherever i want

05:36:25 ben_vulpes: *cartman head wobble*

05:37:41 mircea_popescu: suppose you think about what you wanna say, say it, and then let it be ?

05:37:49 mircea_popescu: can't turn the whole web into a signal processor.

05:40:00 ben_vulpes: i do not see what relationship the directory structure has to the things i have said, other than they expose the retarded toolchain i used to get them on the public net in the first place.

05:40:14 ben_vulpes: all that aside, when i finally ditch this thing, i will preserve the shit that's already on disk.

05:40:55 mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at feminist camp, http://49.media.tumblr.com/c9f987d117dbe8e493a4861958689f15/tumblr_n7emvhuFmg1rv5wh5o1_400.gif

05:40:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsNQVq )

05:43:38 ben_vulpes: hahaha

05:44:01 ben_vulpes: it's usually the captions or contextuality of mircea_popescu's pr0n that gets me lolling

05:44:27 mircea_popescu: lol

05:44:59 ben_vulpes: heh i am still snickering about that one

05:45:33 ben_vulpes: hey does anyone have suggestions for a non-retarded display manager?

05:45:43 ben_vulpes: for once in my short life i would like to not piss on a fence.

05:45:58 ben_vulpes: something that looks hella nineties would be top notch

05:51:48 BingoBoingo: dwm

05:56:35 BingoBoingo: http://dwm.suckless.org/

05:56:36 assbot: suckless.org dwm - dynamic window manager ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZVEazh )

05:58:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00055871 = 3.9668 BTC [-]

06:01:22 ben_vulpes: nah all i need is the display manager, i'm going to use emacs for window mgmt

06:12:05 ben_vulpes: ;;ud hackin

06:12:06 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hackin | hackin'. a different way to say freakin/fuckin. its an adjective. fred on youtube uses it a lot. Fred: Hey, it's Fred! And I'm really hackin' mad right now because Judy ...

06:13:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 202400 @ 0.00055692 = 112.7206 BTC [-] {7}

06:23:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00056489 = 35.4186 BTC [+] {2}

06:50:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19715 @ 0.0005637 = 11.1133 BTC [-]

06:55:39 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Drones… sono finiti! - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/24/drones-sono-finiti/

07:00:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5886 @ 0.00056004 = 3.2964 BTC [-] {2}

07:00:48 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383497 << "excuse me sir, i have an ear infucktion. i cunt hear you."

07:00:48 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 01:51:14; adlai: fwiw friend who teaches classics at a usg 'prep school' attests to having had a student excused from any and all performance standards due to APD (which stands for 'auditory processing disorder')

07:02:57 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383534 << "and we DEMAND that you hire useless hobos"

07:02:57 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:10:26; ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that the workload given to employees be reflective of their abilities...should not be given a workload that they cannot handle."

07:05:51 pete_dushenski: http://imgur.com/a/yFUTu << in other humour, citi's willem buiter has a new nickname for us "cyber boys"

07:05:52 assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/20lQeXd )

07:06:20 pete_dushenski: though buiter is right about the silliness of bitcoin tx being costless. such strawman.

07:06:58 pete_dushenski: http://www.businessinsider.com/one-couple-lived-off-food-waste-for-6-months-2016-1?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=referral#/%23about-60-of-consumers-are-throwing-food-away-prematurely-because-they-dont-understand-what-the-dates-are-telling-them-explained-gunders-4 << one for asciilifeform

07:06:59 assbot: One couple lived off food waste for 6 months - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/20lQl54 )

07:09:14 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: is this a 'freegan' thing?

07:09:17 mircea_popescu: "cyber boys" as opposed to what, banking girls ?

07:09:46 ben_vulpes: http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/24/drones-sono-finiti/#footnote_1_6779 << i swear to god i read this elsewhere recently

07:09:47 assbot: Drones… sono finiti! | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ju1j4o )

07:09:52 mircea_popescu: lol derp, "this thing that happened shows that this thing i presume is correct because reasons so ergo!"

07:10:26 mircea_popescu: !rate willem buiter -1 lolz

07:10:26 assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.

07:10:38 pete_dushenski: huh. great minds or something

07:10:56 pete_dushenski: ^ ben_vulpes

07:10:59 ben_vulpes: either that or i'm living a week in the future somehow

07:11:23 pete_dushenski: hi ben, it's the future calling, gentoo all ready to go, sir !

07:11:54 ben_vulpes: NOT YET LOL

07:12:08 ben_vulpes: i mean some bits of it work

07:12:15 ben_vulpes: but i think i need to recompile the kernel

07:12:16 ben_vulpes: again

07:12:18 ben_vulpes: still now

07:12:22 ben_vulpes: now again

07:12:25 ben_vulpes: again now

07:12:42 BingoBoingo: The Joys of Sobriety: Going back to read yourself from 2014 and being pleasantly surprised with something you completely dissolved the memory of having written in industrial solvent.

07:13:32 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: at this rate imma completely give up and just run 10.6

07:13:54 ben_vulpes: put gentoo in a vm for building ri's

07:13:55 pete_dushenski: alf has a copy ready and waiting. nib.

07:14:00 ben_vulpes: miserable fucking workflow.

07:14:39 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i think those shit-spreaders were less of a 'freegan' and more of a 'let's see what it's like to be derpizens of the great nation of afrika'. fwiw.

07:14:44 ben_vulpes: lol wut and now it simply refuses to boot!

07:14:51 pete_dushenski: LMAO

07:15:10 ben_vulpes: after five reboots in a row it just gives up!

07:15:18 pete_dushenski: just send alf your mailing address already ?

07:15:32 ben_vulpes: "software never fails" but the flesh apparently is very fucking weak.

07:15:47 ben_vulpes: > marking TSC unstable due to TSC halts in idle

07:17:41 ben_vulpes: shoulda listened to trinque.

07:18:15 ben_vulpes: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

07:18:35 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383609 << in my own aforementioned article. thankfully, archive.is has a pretty healthy stock of tlp. (not that i found any other broken links there lately)

07:18:35 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:35:25; adlai: pete_dushenski: more helpful to say where you encountered the deadlink :)

07:20:42 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: you can't not pee on ~all~ the fences.

07:22:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62450 @ 0.00056568 = 35.3267 BTC [+] {3}

07:28:17 *: ben_vulpes dd's the 10.6 installer onto the flash drive one last time

07:36:07 pete_dushenski: it's wild how much more organised 10.6 is than 10.8. the latter ~always~ bunged up dates. when trying to organise a folder by "date modified", the latest documents would almost invariably end up in their own speshul sub-heading waaay at the bottom of the list under "no date". but then once in a while, not. for whatever reason.

07:37:11 pete_dushenski: i don't think anything drove me more nutso when using 10.8 than the inability to find a file in a folder you ~just~ placed it in moments earlier.

07:38:56 ben_vulpes: and el cap is second system shitgnomery incarnate

07:40:00 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383805 << i saw 2+ gb just from a couple of failed trb build attempts. it was like 2.7 gigs iirc. "bitcoin is not for the poor (who can't afford hd space)" (tm) (r)

07:40:00 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:03; mircea_popescu: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771 << this doesn't actually work, i've seen gb+ debug.logs

07:40:31 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: that's a thoroughly frightening prospect.

07:41:39 ben_vulpes: no you know what i have one more fence to piss upon

07:41:41 ben_vulpes: UBUNTU

07:41:47 ben_vulpes: that is how desperate i am to get off of os x.

07:43:07 guruvan: ben_vulpes: just get you a boot2docker, and then run whatever the hell you want - use the OSX like a hypervisor :D

07:43:07 pete_dushenski: the old osen come with their own limitations, however, like not being able to render random websites, eg. http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/14/they-dont-print-paper-catalogues-anymore-everythings-on-their-website/ (oakley's - which i only ever managed to use on... ios8 ipad)

07:43:09 assbot: “They don’t print paper catalogues anymore, everything’s on their website.” | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxosOd )

07:43:46 ben_vulpes: guruvan: i am not running my primary os in a container, thank you very much.

07:43:55 guruvan: :)

07:44:04 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i tried 14 for a few days. couldn't believe how laggy it was. haven't tried 10 (or whatever the b-a approved one was)

07:44:06 ben_vulpes: ftr i /have done this/

07:44:41 ben_vulpes: edited code in emacs, booted container for reference implementation builds

07:44:52 ben_vulpes: shat elfs onto server for testing

07:45:34 ben_vulpes: openbsd at least installed, booted trivially, and ran emacs under x11.

07:45:44 ben_vulpes: but reference implementation? no, get fucked it said.

07:46:51 ben_vulpes: it is weekends like this that make me reconsider how i spent my youth as a misspend, when i see trinque and asciilifeform with usable professional non apple toolchains

07:47:14 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383894 << spiffy

07:47:14 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:58:32; asciilifeform: http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/09/06/stack-frame-layout-on-x86-64 << better picture

07:47:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00056116 = 14.5902 BTC [-] {4}

07:48:06 ben_vulpes: shit, i even reconsider the /past three years/ of toolchain investment on weekends like this.

07:48:22 ben_vulpes: pick a side i said.

07:52:07 phf: openbsd patch as written results in a working build on both linux and openbsd. it introduces necessary ifdefs to ensure cross platform support. the only change that it does to makefile is, at least according to my research, is necessary with some versions of gcc, rather then openbsd specific (has to do with static linking of pthread). without that change build ~can~ produce broken static bitcoind on both openbsd and linux. at the time

07:52:08 phf: when it was written and submitted it applied cleanly to the tree. to my knowledge it doesn't interfere with stator build. in fact the whole point of patch is to make minimally intrusive changes to source so that interested parties don't have to track down silly issues when attempting a build on their own. it's my understanding that the patch was simply dropped during v-ification, so of course now it doesn't in any way fits into

07:52:08 phf: pressing.

07:52:57 ben_vulpes: phf: i have a hunch that it was my boost compiles that were failing.

07:53:26 pete_dushenski: just noticed that crapple is pulling the same version naming strange as bitcoin 'core', ie. v. x.9 followed by x.10, x.11, x.12, etc. (is this the equiv. of web 2.12 ?)

07:53:34 ben_vulpes: still trying to get the hang of the m1a1, very much adrift in the cockpit of a warthog.

07:54:08 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: it's been an alternative scheme for as long as i can remember

07:54:15 ben_vulpes: x.6 ~ 10.6

07:54:21 mircea_popescu: phf how can it be dropped i dont get this ?

07:55:01 mircea_popescu: in random good unix news : shuf -n 1 $file will pop out a random line from that file.

07:55:05 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: maybe it's just the coincidence that's being picked up on my gaydar then.

07:56:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112350 @ 0.00056689 = 63.6901 BTC [+] {5}

07:57:24 pete_dushenski: that being said, i've always thought that version numbers should "roll over" at a certain point. not like mac os8 went 43372 sub-versions before macos 9 showed up. eh. i guess it really doesn't matter.

07:58:00 *: pete_dushenski back to reading about x86_64

07:58:59 phf: mircea_popescu: well, openbsd and timestamp are written in old diff format, their migration was not done by foundation when majority of patches were moved to vdiff. i interpreted that move as the patches not being needed and an invitation to perform migration myself.

07:59:46 mircea_popescu: i think the migration was done by patch authors rly.

07:59:47 deedbot-: [Bingo Blog] The Theoretical Foundation of Social Engineering Practice - http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2016/01/24/the-theoretical-foundation-of-social-engineering-practice/

08:00:23 mircea_popescu: anyway, do i get the impression you got the impression your patches aren't welcome or something ?

08:02:46 phf: well, first v release was migrated by ascii, with all the patches signed by him, i think later mod6 signed his?

08:05:11 mircea_popescu: possibru

08:07:21 BingoBoingo: If asciilifeform reads and tests what he signs the openbsd patch would have been missed. Timestamp may have been overlooked.

08:09:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113350 @ 0.00055488 = 62.8956 BTC [-] {2}

08:10:47 *: BingoBoingo can finally read ben_vulpes on SSL

08:13:55 phf: one of the features of the openbsd patch is that it should build cleanly on linux, i.e. naive build or a stator build. i did a naive build that work, while i was developing, but since i assume it was not included in stator i can't speak to that.

08:16:53 phf: basically the patch being dropped created bunch of work for me, that i don't have bandwidth to pursue. (i.e. produce a v version, test on stator)

08:16:55 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: "The correct answer is that developed and practiced by people who take personal cryptographic hygenie very seriously" << hygiene

08:17:39 phf: otherwise the work needs to be done by other foundation members, and it comes with commitment to support openbsd build

08:18:57 phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly

08:21:14 mircea_popescu: i guess that makes sense.

08:21:16 BingoBoingo: http://i.imgur.com/8jQls63.jpg

08:21:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjRQgo )

08:24:35 pete_dushenski: i'm out. cheers !

08:30:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44601 @ 0.00055644 = 24.8178 BTC [+] {2}

08:31:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40441 @ 0.00055814 = 22.5717 BTC [+]

08:54:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67358 @ 0.00055502 = 37.385 BTC [-]

08:56:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112195 @ 0.00055491 = 62.2581 BTC [-] {3}

09:00:25 phf: mircea_popescu: ok, so i wouldn't say not welcome, but since neither patch was given a courtesy of a smooth transition, i assumed that neither are seen as particularly important. спасение утопающих дело рук самих утопающих (tm) (r)

09:07:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49100 @ 0.00055474 = 27.2377 BTC [-] {3}

09:09:01 BingoBoingo: "Maybe we aren't seeing heaven because one of us is a J-O-O" -Eric Cartman

09:26:14 punkman: well that was a lot of log

09:26:42 BingoBoingo: Much log, lots of content

09:31:55 mircea_popescu: phf i think you're reading too much into it.

09:32:38 mircea_popescu: besides, nobody's drowning.

09:32:43 punkman: http://i.imgur.com/gZxnXJu.jpg

09:32:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1WGtsHf )

09:36:36 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 had a few threads http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316722

09:36:36 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:50; polarbeard: do we agree in using an external tool for this?

09:36:36 assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 02:44:58; trinque: ShrinkDebugFile() << lol, the autism in this thing

09:37:08 punkman: I suspect that using the plog library (after some win32-snipping) would remove more lines than it adds

09:38:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20689 @ 0.00055855 = 11.5558 BTC [+] {4}

09:39:21 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383855 << I haven't had any problems using custom datadirs

09:39:21 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:35:03; mircea_popescu: which is why nobody uses datadir, because wtf you do with munged 200kb logfiles.

09:44:19 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 << if by external you mean: does not introduce further dependencies into the codebase, maybe, depending on the tool

09:44:19 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:50; polarbeard: do we agree in using an external tool for this?

09:44:25 ben_vulpes: also lol what /we/ who are /you/?

09:50:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34050 @ 0.00055874 = 19.0251 BTC [+]

09:55:25 BingoBoingo: Ah, Rubio. Now BitBet's sole favorite for the Republican nomination. https://bitbet.us/bet/1205/marco-rubio-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/

09:55:25 assbot: BitBet - Marco Rubio will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee :: 0.54 B (54%) on Yes, 0.47 B (46%) on No | closing in 2 months 2 weeks | weight: 39`117 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KJwMN1 )

10:00:14 BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/x4JAc

10:00:15 assbot: Catfishing is real, and it can be hurtful. : fatpeoplestories ... ( http://bit.ly/1QsdDDy )

10:04:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.00055874 = 27.3224 BTC [+]

10:08:30 ben_vulpes: http://jezebel.com/britney-spears-good-at-math-1747547324 << i have examined this and found it lulzy

10:08:31 assbot: Britney Spears Good at Math ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qsea8y )

10:13:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53005 @ 0.0005552 = 29.4284 BTC [-] {3}

10:36:46 phf: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383561 << wtf? that is not at all the issue!

10:36:46 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:26:40; mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383446 << wait, explain this to me ? << the idea is that our makefiles, or whatever build scripts will utilize V to build inside of the rotor (a linux thing) - the source must be compatable with that. phf's openbsd scripts are not compatible with this.

10:41:45 phf: the ~only~ "script" aspect of the patch is "-Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" which is a cross platform gcc argument that ensure that pthread is truly fully statically linked into bitcoind. the issue that some parts of it don't appear consistently with openbsd gcc ~and also on some of the linux gcc versions~. fucking says so in the original email

10:53:37 phf: everything else in there is either cross platform clarification or straight up an #ifdef. it's a tiny ass patch, if it doesn't build on rotor, linux, etc. it's a bug in a patch

10:56:59 ben_vulpes: i only had the opportunity to test it recently, failed to even build prerequsites and so cannot sign it. i also do not intend to build another openbsd system in the immediate future.

10:58:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69297 @ 0.00055895 = 38.7336 BTC [+] {2}

10:59:12 phf: ben_vulpes: of course, that bsd patch doesn't stand in isolation. it was produced at a certain time, was since used by several people to build a version. but there's nothing to sign, because there's only pre-v patch

10:59:14 ben_vulpes: i do envy everyone the vast panoply of device families apparently covered.

11:06:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87971 @ 0.00056333 = 49.5567 BTC [+] {3}

11:18:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24658 @ 0.00056659 = 13.971 BTC [+]

11:38:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.0005632 = 14.8122 BTC [-] {2}

11:44:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00056659 = 23.8534 BTC [+]

12:42:16 punkman: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/history_of_gcc_development.shtml

12:42:18 assbot: The Short History of GCC development ... ( http://bit.ly/20meIQb )

12:43:54 punkman: "Why are we doing this? It's become increasingly clear in the course of hacking events that the FSF's needs for gcc2 are at odds with the objectives of many in the community who have done lots of hacking and improvement over the years. GCC is part of the FSF's publicity for the GNU project, as well as being the GNU system's compiler, so stability is paramount for them. On the other hand,

12:43:54 punkman: Cygnus, the Linux folks, the pgcc folks, the Fortran folks and many others have done development work which has not yet gone into the GCC2 tree despite years of efforts to make it possible."

12:48:28 punkman: "As FSF GCC died a silent death from malnutrition, both were (formally) reunited as of version 2.95 in April 1999.  With a simple renaming trick, egcs became gcc now and formally the split was over"

13:05:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159250 @ 0.00056167 = 89.4459 BTC [-] {4}

13:12:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47049 @ 0.00056368 = 26.5206 BTC [+] {3}

13:14:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00056534 = 44.6053 BTC [+]

13:20:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56101 @ 0.00056534 = 31.7161 BTC [+]

13:27:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84980 @ 0.00056251 = 47.8021 BTC [-] {3}

13:30:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75629 @ 0.00055647 = 42.0853 BTC [-] {2}

13:35:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108631 @ 0.00055647 = 60.4499 BTC [-]

13:43:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17820 @ 0.00055698 = 9.9254 BTC [+]

13:51:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40435 @ 0.00055647 = 22.5009 BTC [-] {2}

13:56:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00055647 = 9.0148 BTC [-]

14:07:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68900 @ 0.00056607 = 39.0022 BTC [+] {2}

14:14:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50500 @ 0.00056629 = 28.5976 BTC [+] {4}

14:37:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00056518 = 37.3019 BTC [-] {2}

14:39:04 mircea_popescu: phf i dunno man, i've been trying to unravel in my head what the issue is/was, can't say i've got very far. the only thing i can say is please, insist.

14:40:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78800 @ 0.00056519 = 44.537 BTC [+]

14:40:14 mircea_popescu: "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people.

14:41:34 adlai: educational holes; haven't read Анна Каренина, perhaps

14:51:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120250 @ 0.00055647 = 66.9155 BTC [-]

14:59:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whaddyamean 0

14:59:35 mircea_popescu: what do you see in there |?

15:00:13 asciilifeform: perhaps she had the face of a human, rather than ruminant, nfi

15:02:30 mircea_popescu: but the list of things he presents is enough to deduce they have nothing in common.

15:02:49 mircea_popescu: "we both say $word about heavily advertised meaningless franchise". hurr.

15:03:39 mircea_popescu: "she would never take a left on west 83rd at 6pm on a tuesday. i know this on the basis of her $word starwars."

15:03:45 asciilifeform: l0l

15:04:05 mircea_popescu: predictive value of a half eaten linseed.

15:07:01 asciilifeform: ah i finally parsed the thing correctly, when he wrote 'talked that night' it was probably not in the flesh

15:08:08 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384135 << i have an openbsd box. but i haven't booted it in over a year, and can't bring myself to. because it is FUCKING LOATHESOME:

15:08:08 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 14:39:04; mircea_popescu: phf i dunno man, i've been trying to unravel in my head what the issue is/was, can't say i've got very far. the only thing i can say is please, insist.

15:08:10 asciilifeform: e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-01-2016#1365965

15:08:10 assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 03:34:08; asciilifeform: e.g., want x11 emacs ? say hello to dbus

15:08:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-09-2015#1273965

15:08:25 assbot: Logged on 14-09-2015 17:42:55; ascii_field: and until it builds x11 emacs without dbus and related idiocy, openbsd is WORTHLESS to me.

15:08:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you don't like it. what of it?

15:08:42 asciilifeform: so i won't maintain for it.

15:08:48 asciilifeform: i tried...

15:08:48 mircea_popescu: well yes but we're discussing him

15:09:40 asciilifeform: if he wants to maintain a parallel universe, and it doesn't in any serious way inconvenience the actual universe, i will say only kind things.

15:11:18 asciilifeform: thing is, at least the way i understood it, the whole ~point~ of openbsd was as a fortress against poetteringization. and it appears to be in ruins, based on above

15:11:30 asciilifeform: i can haz emacs without dbus ~here~

15:11:35 asciilifeform: even on the most heathen linux

15:12:25 asciilifeform: and recall the incident with theo and his 'friends'

15:13:01 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, these must be decisions people take for themselves.

15:13:09 asciilifeform: in principle, i like the lightweight, pedigreed, and 'hackable on' bsd family, e.g., netbsd. but imho openbsd is something that probably needs to be helped die

15:13:18 asciilifeform: but this is just my own judgement.

15:14:44 asciilifeform: did anybody ever try to get theo to appear here ?

15:14:56 asciilifeform: i'd much like to hear what the man has to say for himself.

15:17:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384102 << so REAL maths folks eschew line breaks!!11 who knew?!

15:17:10 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 10:08:30; ben_vulpes: http://jezebel.com/britney-spears-good-at-math-1747547324 << i have examined this and found it lulzy

15:17:21 PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383435 << maybe "god" is just anthropomorphic personification of "universe"

15:17:21 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 00:05:24; danielpbarron: >> me: the universe does not guarantee a solution to things that humans perceive as problems. << personification of 'universe' to replace God

15:19:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384035 << this is lulzy in re: how i recently had to set up a complete orchestra on an apple box

15:19:27 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 07:46:51; ben_vulpes: it is weekends like this that make me reconsider how i spent my youth as a misspend, when i see trinque and asciilifeform with usable professional non apple toolchains

15:19:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i personally don't. there's a common disease of whores (and no, programmers aren't fundamentally anything else). it manifests like so : should a wolf find a delicious morsel, it will neglect it oft to the point of just letting it sit while it draws a perimeter around and inspects for whence it came for and MOAR. meanwhile, a mouse that found a morsel will grab it and run, never to return.

15:20:00 asciilifeform: originally i thought that it would have to be a gentoo vm, but turns out that one can actually build a genuine toolchain there ! and it runs...

15:20:20 mircea_popescu: i see it lots with online hos, you'd think that if you got easy money once, you'd never leave that place. but not so if you KNOW you're not worth anyone's time, deep down.

15:20:28 mircea_popescu: and so... i'm not particularly curious.

15:21:33 asciilifeform: i thought the stereotypical whoredom is to go, at the drop of a hat, to where it smells of moar money ?!

15:21:40 asciilifeform: and of programmer-whoring especially?

15:21:43 mircea_popescu: nope. that's baseless slander.

15:21:46 mircea_popescu: that is the queenly behaviour.

15:22:11 mircea_popescu: ie, "i say whore because she won't fuck me" vs "i say whore because whatevs"

15:22:44 asciilifeform: queenly ?

15:23:18 mircea_popescu: yeah. the requisite behaviour of the wife of the king.

15:24:01 asciilifeform: sorta like lioness ovulates as soon as the old cubs are recycled, aha

15:24:22 asciilifeform: this makes sense

15:24:22 mircea_popescu: hey, nobody said reality won't stink.

15:25:16 mircea_popescu: but generally, as an aspiring young lord, you don't have either the time or the resources to spend any time or resources with any women that would settle for anything but the best they can possibly get.

15:25:36 polarbeard: is this the beginning of shitty i18n?: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h#0102

15:25:37 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.h ... ( http://bit.ly/23lN5ZT )

15:25:45 mircea_popescu: which is why "well breed" old guard products don't usually carry much value with the treason that just prospered.

15:27:20 polarbeard: should we kill it? grep " _(" bitcoin/src/* | wc -l -> 58

15:27:43 mircea_popescu: polarbeard "I'd get it one piece at a time. And it wouldn't cost me a dime..."

15:28:41 polarbeard: seems reasonable

15:40:51 mircea_popescu: http://warontherocks.com/2016/01/killing-anwar-targeting-jihadi-propagandists-is-only-part-of-the-solution/ << in other lulzy lulz, from the "lalala i can't hear you" files.

15:40:52 assbot: Killing Anwar: Targeting Jihadi Propagandists is Only Part of the Solution ... ( http://bit.ly/1nhlHLA )

15:42:01 mircea_popescu: "Killing and Communicating to Victory

15:42:02 mircea_popescu: Killing Awlaki unfortunately did not prevent his propaganda from influencing the minds of people who killed innocent people after he was gone. "

15:43:09 mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at home, http://www.blackagendareport.com/black_community_control_police

15:43:11 assbot: Freedom Rider: Black Community Control of the Police and the Politicians | Black Agenda Report ... ( http://bit.ly/1nhlU1r )

15:57:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00055804 = 35.5471 BTC [+]

16:42:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00055804 = 7.5056 BTC [+]

16:53:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75600 @ 0.00055895 = 42.2566 BTC [+] {2}

17:02:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59358 @ 0.00055709 = 33.0677 BTC [-] {3}

17:03:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28083 @ 0.00055537 = 15.5965 BTC [-]

17:26:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99550 @ 0.00056059 = 55.8067 BTC [+] {4}

17:40:43 punkman: https://blockchain.info/en/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=true&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

17:40:44 assbot: Bitcoin Hash Rate ... ( http://bit.ly/1nHHjRP )

17:41:01 punkman: 1 exahash

17:42:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29465 @ 0.00055537 = 16.364 BTC [-] {2}

17:42:43 punkman: ;;nethash

17:42:44 gribble: 930625625.639

17:45:34 punkman: gribble's nethash reads from this http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-3D.txt , in case anyone wants to run a script

17:45:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nHHUmA )

17:49:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46440 @ 0.00055523 = 25.7849 BTC [-] {2}

17:49:22 jurov: !gettrust assbot sipa

17:49:23 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user sipa: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=sipa | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sipa/

17:50:07 punkman: 3D means 3day estimate so it hasn't hit yet http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png

17:50:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UkAsZ0 )

17:50:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2060 @ 0.00055476 = 1.1428 BTC [-]

17:54:35 punkman: next stop, 1 zettahash :D

17:56:30 punkman: ;;interval

17:56:32 gribble: 536.6459627329193

18:06:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16178 @ 0.00055476 = 8.9749 BTC [-] {2}

18:07:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 145308 @ 0.00055393 = 80.4905 BTC [-] {2}

18:16:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80014 @ 0.00056208 = 44.9743 BTC [+] {2}

18:35:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62145 @ 0.00056235 = 34.9472 BTC [+] {2}

18:44:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67700 @ 0.00055377 = 37.4902 BTC [-] {3}

18:46:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48400 @ 0.00056381 = 27.2884 BTC [+] {3}

18:54:50 ben_vulpes: did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez?

18:55:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67150 @ 0.00056483 = 37.9283 BTC [+] {2}

19:01:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71065 @ 0.00055375 = 39.3522 BTC [-] {2}

19:02:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36246 @ 0.00055369 = 20.069 BTC [-]

19:02:54 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384173 << do you mean 'the full orchestra' as advertised on trb ml?

19:02:54 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 15:19:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384035 << this is lulzy in re: how i recently had to set up a complete orchestra on an apple box

19:29:50 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez? << there's room for one.

19:31:51 ben_vulpes: I personally don't understand the reasons beyond "it's the right thing to do with the reference implementation, dummy. also, fuck drepper."

19:32:48 mircea_popescu: do you understand why your apple "computers" suck ?

19:35:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3381 @ 0.00056477 = 1.9095 BTC [+]

19:36:56 ben_vulpes: a glib answer'd be "because steve died", a more pragmatic one "because they don't compile the bitcoin reference implementation", but i don't think either of those are what you're thinking.

19:37:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68374 @ 0.00056108 = 38.3633 BTC [-] {2}

19:38:27 mircea_popescu: mkay, let's take something else. why does buying a russian bride online suck ?

19:40:38 kakobrekla: high fees

19:41:05 mircea_popescu: what's "high" even mean yet.

19:41:22 ben_vulpes: no returns, no way to know if she's even minimally acceptable to spend time with, no way to know if she can suck cock...

19:41:38 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes but none of these are the core of the matter. suppose you buy one, and i give you another.

19:41:45 punkman: ben_vulpes: static because for one, hoping user has the right openssl/bdb/etc shared lib version results in forks

19:41:47 mircea_popescu: how would you know you got a DIFFERENT one ?

19:42:45 ben_vulpes: laptop or bride, they'd be...separate physical instantiations of 'bride' or 'nut-frier'?

19:43:11 *: ben_vulpes is having a 'not enough lsd' moment

19:43:45 mircea_popescu: but think about it. suppose i loan you one of my slavegirls, and you bring her back, except you bring me back a different woman.

19:43:49 mircea_popescu: how would my complaint sound ?

19:44:10 ben_vulpes: ah

19:44:17 ben_vulpes: bitwise identity

19:44:18 mircea_popescu: "i know this isn't X, because Y".

19:44:25 mircea_popescu: whereas you have nfi how "a bride" should go. fuck you know.

19:44:33 mircea_popescu: for all you know, this is how it was supposed to be all along.

19:45:03 mircea_popescu: how are you going to have strong relationships with poorly defined entities ?

19:45:03 ben_vulpes: well no, but i believe that i understand your point.

19:45:51 ben_vulpes: usg has a plenty strong relationship with me, lol

19:46:10 mircea_popescu: quite.

19:46:52 mircea_popescu: marginally speaking, if i take random user's ipad and replace it with another ipad, random user'd never know.

19:46:56 mircea_popescu: now do the same to alf.

19:47:37 ben_vulpes: 'aha'

19:47:42 mircea_popescu: is this MY windows or HIS windows ? (is that my emacs or his emacs ?)

19:48:13 mircea_popescu: and the problem now dawns : nobody gives a shit's ass what you do to your emacs

19:48:24 mircea_popescu: but bitcoin has to stay fixed! protocol! distributed!

19:49:14 mircea_popescu: "i dunno, man, that's just what my bitcoin does" "it shouoldn't do that" "how do you know ?" "because..."

19:55:33 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people. << It's like the redditor version of my foray into fiction

19:56:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84500 @ 0.00055622 = 47.0006 BTC [-] {3}

19:56:15 jurov: From: Gypsy <gypsy@thedoccorp.com> Subject: Programmer at $399/ Week ...orly?

19:57:38 jurov: Best Regards, Gypsy | Offshoring Coordinator

19:59:32 ben_vulpes: what a deal, jurov!

20:00:26 jurov: i'll gladly forward. cascadia surely needs some gypsies to improve diversity

20:02:35 BingoBoingo: They also naturally live in camps and so blend in with local bipedal fauna

20:14:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47450 @ 0.00055399 = 26.2868 BTC [-]

20:15:58 oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/wax-loquacious/

20:15:59 assbot: Wax loquacious ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvV7Fg )

20:32:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120150 @ 0.00055302 = 66.4454 BTC [-] {3}

20:35:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31909 @ 0.00055399 = 17.6773 BTC [+]

20:37:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58400 @ 0.00055279 = 32.2829 BTC [-] {2}

20:47:27 polarbeard: somebody against displaying full hashes in the log instead of substrings?

20:49:44 mircea_popescu: !up yrashk

20:52:01 mircea_popescu: polarbeard on the contrary. please fix the substring idiocy.

20:53:19 mircea_popescu: whoever the fuck does stupid shit like "substring hashes" fundamentally misunderstands what cryptography is all about

20:53:30 mircea_popescu: much like someone delivering CPU shavings fundamentally misunderstands electronics.

20:53:42 polarbeard: is a symptom of basically being 'too clever'

20:54:00 polarbeard: 'but but it won't collide!'

20:54:49 punkman: this doesn't matter in log in most cases

20:54:57 punkman: but can be a hassle

20:55:29 punkman: it also means bigger logs overall

20:55:53 polarbeard: its okay, they actually implemented rotat... well

20:56:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63917 @ 0.00055726 = 35.6184 BTC [+] {2}

20:57:21 polarbeard: saving bytes from hashes to spend them in "oops!" all around

21:01:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32284 @ 0.00056476 = 18.2327 BTC [+] {2}

21:01:41 punkman: myeah, and if you need to archive a lot of logs, can always convert to denser binary format

21:04:03 polarbeard: yeah, for now I'm just adding timestamps, classification prefixes and fixing messages, without adding extra logging points

21:19:18 BingoBoingo: Reddit does Australia https://archive.is/HtuJr

21:19:20 assbot: TIFU by feeding a goanna : tifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1QtgxrI )

21:20:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80550 @ 0.00055626 = 44.8067 BTC [-] {3}

21:28:03 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384235 << unrelated item, but same toolchain

21:28:03 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:02:54; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384173 << do you mean 'the full orchestra' as advertised on trb ml?

21:28:23 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384237 << what is the nonobvious thing re: static compilation ?

21:28:23 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:29:50; mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez? << there's room for one.

21:28:59 asciilifeform: study the linux loader to see what 'dynamic' means. static is simply... not doing this

21:29:24 danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/fredericjacobs/status/691357634704723969 >> OPERATION: KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM

21:29:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384239 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384263 << this argument is every bit as applicable to everybody's, including mircea_popescu's, cpu...

21:29:42 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:32:48; mircea_popescu: do you understand why your apple "computers" suck ?

21:29:42 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 19:46:52; mircea_popescu: marginally speaking, if i take random user's ipad and replace it with another ipad, random user'd never know.

21:29:54 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: censored

21:31:33 danielpbarron: >> Holy crap, opening from latest official (Al-Hayat) ISIS video is the decryption of a PGP message.

21:32:13 danielpbarron: is the tweet deleted? i took screenshots of the pgpgram

21:33:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00056222 = 46.3832 BTC [+]

21:45:38 danielpbarron: !up LquidNinjaAssets

21:45:47 danielpbarron: who're you?

21:46:53 mircea_popescu: <punkman> this doesn't matter in log in most cases << for one thing, alf was considering using the log for dumping and working with mempool.

21:47:15 LquidNinjaAssets: It doesn't really matter, I was just looking for some #b-a advice on who to use as a hosting service if I wanted to start a no frills blog...

21:47:30 LquidNinjaAssets: something either Pete, or Alf uses

21:47:44 danielpbarron: my advice is get in the WoT and ask again

21:47:52 LquidNinjaAssets: I am in the wot

21:47:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform likbez is ipso definitio "list of obvious, except not obvious to you"

21:47:56 LquidNinjaAssets: just at work right now

21:50:28 danielpbarron: i was gonna ask BingoBoingo what he uses; i'm tryin to get a blog up as well

21:50:51 mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> is the tweet deleted? i took screenshots of the pgpgram << it would be. pgp BURNSSSS teh usterrorists.

21:51:07 danielpbarron: hosting i can do myself, but the wordpress i found kinda sucks

21:51:15 mircea_popescu: if you feel like making a qntra out of it all..

21:52:35 mircea_popescu: just a simple "isis finally moving to pgp, like b-a/alf/mp said they should. usg petrified about actual, strong cryptography - as opposed to the ecc and assorted shit they peddle - being deployed by those opposing its reign of terror"

21:52:47 danielpbarron: i'll look into it when i get back to real computer; i'm at a sushi bar atm

21:53:00 LquidNinjaAssets: yes plus all the security holes MP found on there...just something super basic that could be recommended by my wot would be great, thank you

21:53:05 punkman: LquidNinjaAssets: you can see who's hosting where via whois

21:53:20 mircea_popescu: fancy that coincidence, i just had a pile of sushi myself.

21:53:22 LquidNinjaAssets: thanks punkman

21:53:28 asciilifeform: l0l are them pigs flyin'

21:53:35 punkman: contravex looks like godaddy :/

21:53:36 asciilifeform: and censored just as soon.

22:03:19 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Darwin isn't a complete piece of shit eh? So Apple > Winblows or is this like comparing two bowls of shit and asking which one is less nutty.

22:03:33 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it is a complete piece of shit

22:03:39 BingoBoingo: I use dreamhost for thedrinkingrecord. It's cost controlled and don't get surprise bills when DDoS

22:03:54 asciilifeform: and the effort required to set it up for any kind of serious work vastly exceeds the effort used to set up a gentoo box

22:04:10 thestringpuller: interesting to see all the love for Gentoo

22:04:24 BingoBoingo: But really choosing a web host is a serious optimization problem.

22:04:27 asciilifeform: but you can work on it, yes. just as you could probably solder a keyboard to a nintendo and work on that.

22:04:46 BingoBoingo: What works for thedrinkingrecord would be unacceptably for Qntra

22:04:48 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: people did that, it was called a commodore64

22:05:30 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: because qntra has giant "DDOS me" sign on it's back as it walks to halls?

22:05:48 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i can work on an apple box, with a good bit of sweat. i cannot work on a winblowz box.

22:05:59 asciilifeform: it is entirely impossible without installing something like vmware

22:06:46 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Because Qntra needs the potential to host wider varieties of content objectionable to shitgnomes

22:07:56 thestringpuller: Working on a winblowz box is the worst experience ever. I did so for 1.5 years writing JBoss web applets. Everyone thought "Oh you can run the dev environment in windows, well you're crazy. THIS IS HOW THE WORLD WORKS" to which I would revolt saying, "Your development process is insane which is why you spent 2.5 mil bringing in AGILE consultants to reduce your bottom line, which didn't fix any of the real problems."

22:08:23 thestringpuller: Eventually all the devs were given macs, (Oh boy upgrade from diahrea to solid feces).

22:08:40 asciilifeform: just imagine a box where you can't pop a shell & grep

22:08:43 thestringpuller: The only people who got anything done around there was DevOps who had a strict (Run linux)

22:08:57 asciilifeform: i would much rather trade the computer for a pencil.

22:09:50 asciilifeform: the funny part is that i have written REAMS of code for winblowz.

22:09:52 asciilifeform: just not ON it.

22:10:01 asciilifeform: and didn't ~build~ it there either.

22:10:14 thestringpuller: you cross compiled it?

22:10:29 asciilifeform: (you can cross-compile trivially, and gcc gives 10x the compactness of vs crud. just treat the box as a kind of nintendo.)

22:10:57 polarbeard: that's... interracial

22:11:01 thestringpuller: aha. does this require posix compliance add-ons in the Windows box?

22:11:06 asciilifeform: NONE

22:11:15 asciilifeform: naked winblowz box, straight from the crate.

22:11:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00056222 = 13.3527 BTC [+]

22:11:39 asciilifeform: no 'runtimes' or other dependency crud needed.

22:11:41 thestringpuller: aha so straight to win32

22:11:43 asciilifeform: old-fashioned gcc.

22:12:02 asciilifeform: wrote drivers, even

22:12:15 asciilifeform: (which microshit OFFICIALLY proclaims to only be possible using their turdchain)

22:12:30 asciilifeform: think of it this way, anything you could do in asm (and that's everything, period) you can do with gcc.

22:12:38 polarbeard: but did you sign® them?

22:12:43 asciilifeform: did.

22:12:51 asciilifeform: you don't need vs for this, either.

22:12:59 asciilifeform: but who the everliving fuck cares.

22:13:31 asciilifeform: it boggles my mind that anybody ever uses vs for anything at all.

22:14:20 thestringpuller: cuz IDE make lyfe ez

22:14:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107200 @ 0.00056323 = 60.3783 BTC [+] {3}

22:14:51 polarbeard: ide tells you what to do, calls you bitch if you don't

22:15:32 BingoBoingo: VS has marketing, looks good to managers

22:15:40 thestringpuller: that's like middle school shit. "Sally thinks you're a bitch"

22:16:31 polarbeard: clippy secretly plots your murder, using gentle 'suggestions'

22:16:33 asciilifeform: i will develop ~for~ nintendo, if the money is right. but no amount of money is pay enough for developing ON a nintendo.

22:17:30 BingoBoingo: !up LquidNinjaAssets

22:18:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53100 @ 0.00056222 = 29.8539 BTC [-] {2}

22:20:06 jurov: nice, can someone compile crystalspace/eulora with mingw?

22:20:20 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> just imagine a box where you can't pop a shell & grep << iirc they eventually got a grep in windows too

22:20:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'powershell' ?

22:20:36 asciilifeform: still not an actual shell.

22:20:39 polarbeard: git for windows installs bash, lol

22:20:45 mircea_popescu: i dun recall what it was

22:20:57 asciilifeform: polarbeard: you can even, e.g., cygwin, and build x11, and actual gcc, and bash, etc.

22:21:00 polarbeard: and tells you to shut up and accept the dick

22:21:04 asciilifeform: but at that point why not use an actual os

22:21:19 asciilifeform: jurov: somebody easily could

22:23:02 asciilifeform: i was even under the impression that the eulora build process was microshit-free

22:23:14 asciilifeform: was wrong about this ?

22:23:25 jurov: yep, wrong

22:23:27 asciilifeform: (i am about as far from the project as could be imagined)

22:24:32 *: BingoBoingo wonders if name is supposed to be read polarbearD or polar beard

22:24:44 asciilifeform: !up gitzain

22:25:07 jurov: i know about cygwin, but never tried to apply

22:25:25 asciilifeform: jurov: you specifically would not want to build something ~for~ cygwin

22:25:29 mod6: polarbeard: I apprecate your offer to work on the Reference Implementation, but before you get too far along you need to reconcile that -1 from ben.

22:25:30 asciilifeform: this introduces dependency crud

22:25:33 jurov: rather, heard horror storied about mingw

22:25:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97000 @ 0.00056588 = 54.8904 BTC [+] {5}

22:25:45 asciilifeform: jurov: i worked with mingw for some years.

22:25:52 diana_coman: jurov> nice, can someone compile crystalspace/eulora with mingw? <- I tried that in some days of madness; it didn't end well

22:26:07 polarbeard: mod6: no problem, I'm open to suggestions

22:26:58 asciilifeform: !gettrust polarbeard

22:26:59 assbot: Trust relationship from user asciilifeform to user polarbeard: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=polarbeard | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/polarbeard/

22:27:06 mod6: I think you need to ack your previous identity and make ammends. Thats the first step.

22:27:21 asciilifeform: mod6: is this in the log ?

22:27:27 polarbeard: asciilifeform: I nuked my previous identity, for science

22:27:34 asciilifeform: oh for fucks sake

22:27:39 asciilifeform: let's have it

22:28:03 asciilifeform: !s from:ben_vulpes !rate

22:28:04 assbot: 102 results for 'from:ben_vulpes !rate' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aben_vulpes+%21rate

22:28:26 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374179 << ?

22:28:26 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 05:07:56; ben_vulpes: !rate punindented -1 unwelcome here

22:28:26 mod6: http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/punindented/

22:28:28 assbot: punindented WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeCWYY )

22:28:32 polarbeard: asciilifeform: punindented, nodejs, mawk user

22:28:50 asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes what's the story re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374179 ?

22:28:50 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 05:07:56; ben_vulpes: !rate punindented -1 unwelcome here

22:28:51 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:28:57 polarbeard: and dotfile killah

22:29:46 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i was even under the impression that the eulora build process was microshit-free << how are you going to make a windows binary "microshit-free" ?

22:29:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see thread

22:30:29 mircea_popescu: <mod6> polarbeard: I apprecate your offer to work on the Reference Implementation, but before you get too far along you need to reconcile that -1 from ben. << the what now ?!

22:30:35 asciilifeform: also see thread

22:31:26 mircea_popescu: i have seen both threads, not much changed.

22:31:39 mod6: polarbeard is punindented, i very much appreciate his offer of help to work on the R.I. but this is a non-starter until ben and polarbeard/punindented reconcile their differences.

22:32:03 polarbeard: but I have nothing against him?

22:32:07 thestringpuller: is it safe to transplant the blockchain between hard drives once it's completed?

22:32:30 thestringpuller: or is it like the fdisk thing where you should --verify-all on restart even if blockchain is downloaded?

22:32:42 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: so long as they have same endian

22:33:09 mod6: polarbeard: perhaps not. but wot & signing patches is based on trust. you must have a positive rating from members for patches to be accepted.

22:33:19 thestringpuller: this wouldn't change on same machine no? (like pulling blockchain off one drive then putting on another drive, but inside same machine)

22:33:33 mod6: so lets get this resolved and perhaps we can move forward.

22:33:35 polarbeard: ok, I'll earn that with time, I won't submit until I have positive rating

22:34:06 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: Your best bet is likely starting a blog and putting things you might eventually submit there

22:34:25 BingoBoingo: Shows your growth over time or lack thereof

22:34:43 mircea_popescu: http://misionesonline.net/2016/01/24/obera-un-policia-atropello-a-un-motociclista-lo-mato-y-luego-se-suicido/

22:34:46 assbot: Oberá: un policía se suicidó luego de un accidente que le costó la vida a un motociclista - MisionesOnline ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDb6f )

22:34:46 polarbeard: I code, I don't write articles

22:34:55 mircea_popescu: "y se peg? un tiro con su pistola reglamentaria."

22:34:57 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: Nothing wrong with blogging code

22:35:08 BingoBoingo: or blogging comments to code

22:35:20 polarbeard: ok, I have a blog on https://gist.github.com/polarbeard

22:35:21 assbot: polarbeard’s gists · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDdLk )

22:35:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l!!

22:35:58 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: But you don't own that url in even the pretend sense of having a domain name

22:36:08 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: is the categories page you used built into the theme or did that have to be created?

22:36:18 polarbeard: do I need a domain name to contribute code?

22:36:27 BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: needed created

22:36:36 trinque: polarbeard: just go talk to ben_vulpes and work out whatever happened there.

22:36:55 polarbeard: BingoBoingo knows what happened, I sent him a log

22:36:56 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: no, but it makes the blog part work more smoothly given how github leiks da censorship

22:37:07 polarbeard: please share it BingoBoingo, if you still have it around

22:37:21 BingoBoingo: trinque: He filpped ben_vulpes paranoia breaker it would take some time for it to reset.

22:37:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my point re: the mingw thread was that it is entirely possible to write a proggy, for whatever broken & braindamaged box, without inserting ANY bytes that i did not personally decide to insert.

22:37:40 asciilifeform: (i.e. without linking to vendor libs)

22:37:51 mircea_popescu: mod6 there's two (very general) problems here. one is that well, identification's always iffy. how do you go "x=y" when it comes to ids ? the other is that well, with or without wot trust, the guy can still write patches etc. not like anyone can prevent it. not to say that it shouldn't be resolved by any means.

22:37:59 asciilifeform: (it will make os api calls, yes, supposing that we want i/o at all. but this is not same thing)

22:38:00 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: Did rotor eat your copy too?

22:38:22 polarbeard: I didn't save it

22:39:08 asciilifeform: anybody at all can write patches. just like anyone could write a speech for obamitler to read. now to have him actually read it - is a different matter

22:39:14 mircea_popescu: quite exactly.

22:39:15 mod6: mircea_popescu: he was talking to me in pm when he decided not to reconcile with ben and created a new ident. i can't sign stuff from a guy who i know that my co-chair has neg-rated.

22:39:25 mircea_popescu: i cansee that.

22:39:35 mircea_popescu: what was it anyway ?

22:39:47 *: mircea_popescu points out that all this private talk just makeswork down the line.

22:39:48 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: dpaste ate it.

22:40:10 asciilifeform: aha

22:40:10 mod6: the dispute? i dunno. his ident was 'punindented

22:40:25 asciilifeform: anything you say in 'private' about trb will generally end up having to be repeated at least once.

22:40:28 polarbeard: that's okay, I won't submit anything if you don't want / have the time to read

22:40:33 mod6: i asked him to resolve this, but this has gone too far now.

22:40:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then the differences evaluated and it's just not fucking worth it.

22:40:43 asciilifeform: ^

22:40:51 BingoBoingo: But there is http://dpaste.com/3DJ855N.txt

22:40:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDr5b )

22:40:55 asciilifeform: this is why i almost never 'pm' at all these days

22:41:10 asciilifeform: launch codes go over pgp, everything else can be here.

22:42:16 polarbeard: mod6: I created a new ident because I nuked my keys, but I understand your position, you could have told me I'm not welcomed as well, instead of talking to me

22:42:55 mod6: ah, thats right. forgot you blew away your keys. but still, i gvae you ample time to resolve this with ben.

22:43:32 BingoBoingo: polarbeard: The solution is not simply new name. It is building a history and working towards the comprehensive exam.

22:43:33 mircea_popescu: now we're all stuck sitting around looking at a high strung dramatique discussion with a missing antecedent.

22:43:35 polarbeard: I don't know how to resolve the fact that he doesn't like people build stuff for nodejs

22:43:39 mircea_popescu: this is loathsome.

22:43:48 BingoBoingo: !s comprehensive exam

22:43:49 assbot: 4 results for 'comprehensive exam' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=comprehensive+exam

22:44:04 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> this is loathsome. << This

22:44:17 asciilifeform: there is a more serious problem

22:44:24 asciilifeform: polarbeard tells us that he nuked his keys

22:44:28 mircea_popescu: so ?

22:44:31 asciilifeform: and was formerly mr. somebodyelse

22:44:36 asciilifeform: on what authority is this to be taken ?

22:44:39 BingoBoingo: ^

22:44:46 polarbeard: formerly I was nobody, I'm still nobody

22:44:53 polarbeard: ben's was my first rate

22:44:55 mircea_popescu: well thatg's what i said. how do you know "x is y". you basicaLLY don't.

22:45:00 asciilifeform: aha.

22:45:10 mircea_popescu: only way this works is if x says "i will be y".

22:45:17 mircea_popescu: y saying "i was x" is nonsense.

22:45:27 asciilifeform: maybe i was catherine the great, aha.

22:45:46 asciilifeform: or horse.

22:45:59 mircea_popescu: moreover, gpg is specificalloy intended to work as a PSEUDONYMOUS system. much like bitcoin addresses are.

22:46:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58293 @ 0.00056458 = 32.9111 BTC [-] {2}

22:46:08 mircea_popescu: there's nothing fundamentally wrong with being a dozen different oens.

22:46:27 mircea_popescu: whether you like the idea or not - jack shit you can do aobut it.

22:47:02 mircea_popescu: moreover, the corruptive influence of bitcoin over enemies works in gpg and v space too.

22:47:17 mircea_popescu: new identity has to put in effort to establish trust. if it wants to abuse it later... it does have to burn it.

22:47:28 mircea_popescu: keep things so it's never worth doing that, you don't care if it's hitler's own id.

22:47:50 asciilifeform: see also: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-11-2015#1325347

22:47:50 assbot: Logged on 16-11-2015 21:01:21; ascii_field: BingoBoingo: 'I didn't know that,' I said. 'No one knows everything,' he said. 'Did you know,' he said, 'that until almost this very moment nothing would have delighted me more than to prove that you were a spy, to see you shot?' 'No,' I said. 'And do you know why I don't care now if you were a spy or not?' he said. 'You could tell me now that you were a spy, and we would go on talking calmly, just as w

22:48:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-11-2015#1325348

22:48:00 assbot: Logged on 16-11-2015 21:01:21; ascii_field: would let you wander off to wherever spies go when a war is over. You know why?' he said. 'No,' I said. 'Because you could never have served the enemy as well as you served us,' he said. 'I realized that almost all the ideas that I hold now, that make me unashamed of anything I may have felt or done as a Nazi, came not from Hitler, not from Goebbels, not from Himmler — but from you.' He took my hand.

22:48:25 mircea_popescu: quite.

22:48:34 mircea_popescu: and to bring back that very obscure thing on fraudsters about sybils etc :

22:48:48 mircea_popescu: the ONLY viable attack against the wot is getting people to act in systematic manners.

22:48:57 mircea_popescu: it is the direct equivalent of entropy-diddling for keysystems.

22:49:53 mircea_popescu: not only "there's nothing common about common sense" - but there's a very good reason for this. common sense is decentralized system poison.

22:50:36 asciilifeform: when i explain this to folks, i like to use the example of liquid nitrogen sausage

22:50:51 asciilifeform: hit ordinary sausage with a hammer, nothing, it gets a little flatter

22:50:57 asciilifeform: now freeze it solid, do the same...

22:51:24 mircea_popescu: yeah. vitrification kills.

22:52:01 asciilifeform: the ~structure~ kills.

22:52:12 mircea_popescu: destructure all teh things!

22:52:36 mircea_popescu: hey - this actuyally works. fundamentally, we're destructuralists.

22:52:41 mircea_popescu: comes after post-poststructuralism.

22:53:07 asciilifeform: now, a very hot sausage melts into goo, burns. an entirely destructured forum - timecubes.

22:53:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81700 @ 0.00056222 = 45.9334 BTC [-] {2}

22:53:37 mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as "entirely destructured".

22:54:10 asciilifeform: sure.

22:54:19 asciilifeform: but it is possible to ionize the sausage.

22:54:27 asciilifeform: and generally undesirable.

22:54:31 mircea_popescu: no but this is important. the measure is not 0-> but (undefined) ->

22:54:37 mircea_popescu: very different sort of algebra.

22:55:15 asciilifeform: we actually don't have an algebra for entropy measures, other than shannon's

22:55:33 mircea_popescu: more generally, there's no algebra with a 1 but not a 0 in this sense afaik.

22:56:15 asciilifeform: riddle time:

22:56:24 asciilifeform: char *p = sc->strbuff;

22:56:24 asciilifeform: while ((p - sc->strbuff < sizeof(sc->strbuff)) &&

22:56:24 asciilifeform: !is_one_of(delim, (*p++ = inchar(sc))));

22:56:28 asciilifeform: from where ?

22:56:34 mircea_popescu: openssh

22:56:40 asciilifeform: tinyscheme

22:56:42 thestringpuller: L0L

22:56:52 asciilifeform: 'who does this?!'

22:56:55 asciilifeform: (tm) (r)

22:57:01 thestringpuller: (c)

22:57:01 mircea_popescu: openssh!

22:58:00 jurov: linus

22:59:14 asciilifeform: folks who produce 'gems' like this, are prime candidates for http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Iran-Finger-Amputation-ISNA-3.jpg

22:59:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeE9zp )

23:00:37 mircea_popescu: the sad truth is that this is a very specific sort of ideal.

23:00:45 mircea_popescu: like the bell bottoms, a fashion of the 70s

23:01:21 asciilifeform: how's that

23:03:23 mircea_popescu: i dunno how to explain it otherwise.

23:03:38 asciilifeform: which would be the 'ideal'

23:04:06 asciilifeform: wanton pointer arithmetic ?

23:04:44 asciilifeform: to save five lines but add an hour to the time of anybody trying to actually grasp the meaning ?

23:06:37 jurov: "idiomatic C"

23:07:25 mircea_popescu: that, yes.

23:07:37 mircea_popescu: sorta like crossword puzzles, same thing. a sort of cleverness.

23:09:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139750 @ 0.00056459 = 78.9015 BTC [+]

23:22:47 mircea_popescu: !up srijan

23:24:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125750 @ 0.00056222 = 70.6992 BTC [-]

23:30:25 asciilifeform: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2012/Jul/13 but interestingly the classical tinyscheme does not even have the original 0day

23:30:26 assbot: Full Disclosure: Re: ScriptFu Server Buffer Overflow in GIMP <= 2.6 ... ( http://bit.ly/1WI6jEr )

23:30:31 asciilifeform: it was introduced in the... guess...

23:30:38 asciilifeform: utf8-ificated one.

23:30:40 asciilifeform: where else

23:30:58 asciilifeform: though the cited bit is still disgusting

23:31:47 asciilifeform: (it is from ver. 1.41)

23:32:01 asciilifeform: circa, iirc, 1999.

23:32:28 asciilifeform: (cited earlier in this thread, that is)

23:34:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52250 @ 0.00056432 = 29.4857 BTC [+] {3}

23:35:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384565 << i offer that such folks be given a chance to stop, asked nicely. after this, to be hit with a heavy blunt object. and then hit again, and again, until they are no longer a danger to others.

23:35:00 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 23:06:37; jurov: "idiomatic C"

23:35:32 asciilifeform: 'clever' aha.

23:38:47 jurov: merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries"

23:42:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114650 @ 0.00056034 = 64.243 BTC [-] {2}

23:52:49 asciilifeform: !up kefkius

23:54:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47215 @ 0.00056459 = 26.6571 BTC [+]

23:56:05 danielpbarron: snowden twatter account says the isis pgp is fake

23:56:26 asciilifeform: where is the kennedy assassination dossier it promised.

23:57:01 asciilifeform: (speaking of folks with no pubkey!)

23:59:08 ben_vulpes: so i've only negrated this punindented identity