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Transcript for 24-03-2015, 2847 lines:

00:00:04 indiancandy1: so like check the vagina you kknow

00:00:09 indiancandy1: for sexual diseases

00:00:13 indiancandy1: but they changed the system

00:00:23 indiancandy1: before the nurse had 2 do swabs herself on the patient

00:00:42 indiancandy1: but now its a cotton bud u insert urself in toilet and then put it in the tube

00:00:43 mircea_popescu: btw, ask her what's the similarity between a practicing gynecologist and a healthy dog.

00:00:56 indiancandy1: then

00:01:03 indiancandy1: there is a machine that does all the work now

00:01:14 indiancandy1: so before they had to do the swabs and all but now no just blood test

00:01:26 indiancandy1: i duno about the seriose diseases how they work with that

00:01:28 indiancandy1: i dont ask

00:01:30 indiancandy1: like hiv etc

00:02:04 brendafdez: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206613/Chinese-hospitals-introduce-hands-free-automatic-sperm-extractor-donors-play-videos-help.html

00:02:07 assbot: Chinese hospitals introduce hands-free automatic 'sperm extractor' for donors (that even play videos to 'help') | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/18TGopI )

00:02:38 mircea_popescu: the country of cheap hand labour. oh, how the mighthy have fallen.

00:03:08 indiancandy1: i like ur name

00:03:12 indiancandy1: pierre rochard

00:03:17 indiancandy1: exotic sounds like a disney character

00:04:26 indiancandy1: mp

00:04:35 indiancandy1: u need to get on instagram yo

00:04:41 trinque: loooool

00:04:43 brendafdez: lol

00:04:52 mircea_popescu: why ?

00:04:58 brendafdez: it even has rounded crners, dont ask

00:05:09 indiancandy1: its fun

00:05:18 indiancandy1: what has rounded corners

00:05:22 indiancandy1: the sperm donor thing

00:05:24 brendafdez: instagram

00:05:47 indiancandy1: okay

00:05:47 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/4da22b1f1235a8e2146a52f24352e900/tumblr_meo80dycba1rsltkro1_1280.jpg

00:05:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18TGH3Z )

00:06:02 mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 what do you mean "it's fun"

00:06:15 indiancandy1: her ipples

00:06:20 indiancandy1: nipples look fucked

00:06:22 indiancandy1: the older lady

00:06:35 indiancandy1: i hate nipples like that

00:06:36 brendafdez: he ventured into twitter and things didn't end well... someone got death threats and stuff

00:06:40 indiancandy1: look like they been slapped on

00:06:46 indiancandy1: but the other girl looks sexy

00:06:59 mircea_popescu: eh stop being so critical.

00:07:24 mircea_popescu: brendafdez ftr, my twitter account is from before o'reilly discovered bitcoin / created a house "expert".

00:07:36 mircea_popescu: but it's been abandoned longer than used, because well... the platform's retarded.

00:07:58 indiancandy1: i got better nipples obvios

00:08:11 trinque: mircea_popescu: if it's the same handle as IRC, got suspended

00:08:23 brendafdez: he has another one unused

00:08:24 brendafdez: i think

00:08:39 mircea_popescu: trinque yeah that one. 2009 iirc

00:08:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00025426 = 4.9708 BTC [+] {2}

00:08:57 mircea_popescu: because at the time all the fuckable ro chicks were like "mp, come on twitter, its fun"

00:09:11 brendafdez: hahahahaha :) instagram is tha future

00:09:20 mircea_popescu: yeah, the future of flies.

00:10:12 mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 so when are you coming to argentina ? find yourself a nice brazillian bf, etc ?

00:10:21 indiancandy1: when you sponsor me

00:10:35 indiancandy1: can i stay at our house

00:10:39 indiancandy1: your|*

00:11:06 mircea_popescu: well you could but then you'll hafta do all sorts of things.

00:12:46 indiancandy1: like get you drunk

00:12:49 indiancandy1: take you clubbing

00:12:53 indiancandy1: be ur wing man

00:12:55 indiancandy1: :D

00:13:18 mircea_popescu: lol. not at first.

00:13:29 mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/7eaa07042c70a1a985dc05680728852b/tumblr_nfbv4oVaSc1u09k11o1_1280.jpg << lol, blanke schande.

00:13:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OtkHNS )

00:14:26 mircea_popescu: !up indiancandy1

00:14:33 mircea_popescu: you gotta get in the wot already yo.

00:14:46 mircea_popescu: why let everyone think beauty and brains don't mix ?

00:15:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00025524 = 3.5478 BTC [+]

00:16:40 indiancandy1: i need to

00:16:42 brendafdez: Bc it gives hope to those of us who are ugly, or doesn't it work like that? Ok, now i don't even want to know... ;)

00:16:46 indiancandy1: but i need help

00:16:51 indiancandy1: can u teach me how

00:18:12 indiancandy1: .........

00:18:19 indiancandy1: waites

00:19:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00025605 = 4.0456 BTC [+] {2}

00:20:48 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin above MtGox $266 high 2 years on" http://bitbet.us/bet/1126/ Odds: 61(Y):39(N) by coin, 74(Y):26(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.44595505 BTC. Current weight: 42,774.

00:25:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10600 @ 0.0002489 = 2.6383 BTC [-]

00:29:07 mircea_popescu: !h

00:29:07 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

00:29:27 mircea_popescu: see that indiancandy1 where it says "first steps in bitcoin assets"

00:30:17 indiancandy1: nope

00:30:22 indiancandy1: where should i look

00:30:27 mircea_popescu: on the left.

00:31:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00024899 = 5.1541 BTC [+] {2}

00:33:22 indiancandy1: i cant find it

00:33:31 mircea_popescu: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets/ <

00:33:32 assbot: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1Otojjb )

00:34:25 indiancandy1: all this text

00:34:29 indiancandy1: giving me head ake

00:34:30 indiancandy1: LOL

00:34:35 nubbins`: zzzz

00:35:07 indiancandy1: dont be rude

00:35:10 indiancandy1: nubins

00:35:12 indiancandy1: about zzz

00:35:25 mircea_popescu: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/36085/what-are-the-arguments-for-and-against-the-increase-of-the-block-size-limit << check it out lol.

00:35:26 assbot: scalability - What are the arguments for and against the increase of the block size limit? - Bitcoin Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1OtoF9q )

00:36:41 brendafdez: i was asked to translate a piece of utter stupudity about "btc scalability" for a certain website. I'm making $30 on this but it sucks.

00:36:49 brendafdez: having to translate braindamage

00:37:04 mircea_popescu: who the fuck is murch, other than a guy with a skin rash, which he imagines comes from reading stuf online rather than from poor hygiene

00:37:14 indiancandy1: wow

00:37:14 mircea_popescu: sucks to be you i guess.

00:37:18 indiancandy1: whose murch

00:37:25 brendafdez: who? me?

00:37:32 indiancandy1: ahahah

00:38:53 mircea_popescu: brendafdez yeah you.

00:39:09 indiancandy1: mp

00:39:13 indiancandy1: when you booking my flight

00:39:30 brendafdez: I don't think it sucks too badly, but maybe as compared to being mp... ;)

00:40:06 mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 a while after your tits are on the article, for sure.

00:40:19 indiancandy1: which article

00:40:40 brendafdez: hahah she refused the 0.1 BTC last time

00:41:15 nubbins`: a whole dime

00:41:17 nubbins`: !s dime

00:41:18 assbot: 88 results for 'dime' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dime

00:41:23 indiancandy1: come on

00:41:24 mircea_popescu: tough work eh.

00:41:30 indiancandy1: my tits are worth more baby brenda

00:41:42 mircea_popescu: it's supposed to be unappealing. that's what keeps you in your current rut.

00:41:46 mircea_popescu: water in teh glass.

00:41:59 nubbins`: heh

00:42:10 nubbins`: clean glass? here y'go, your highness

00:42:27 indiancandy1: youu lost me

00:42:46 brendafdez: i wouldn't doubt it, indiancandy1, but I'd be more convinced if they were posted on fraudsters

00:42:47 nubbins`: you should probably ctrl-c that

00:43:04 indiancandy1: mp most my tits

00:43:06 indiancandy1: on fraudsters

00:43:13 indiancandy1: get them more famous

00:43:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7473 @ 0.00024547 = 1.8344 BTC [-]

00:43:25 brendafdez: Now you're paying him 0.1 for it :P

00:43:25 nubbins`: mine are on there

00:43:52 indiancandy1: nubbins send url

00:44:25 brendafdez: http://fraudsters.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/

00:44:26 assbot: I'll pay for your tits pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0bs4I )

00:45:21 mircea_popescu: http://www.ofnumbers.com/2015/02/06/what-is-the-blockchain-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ << Tim Swanson is making his own personal wot! confound this whole thing, who said independent minded texan has to kiss teh pinky pope ring!11

00:45:22 assbot: What is the blockchain hard fork “missile crisis?” | Great Wall of Numbers ... ( http://bit.ly/18TJKZM )

00:46:05 mircea_popescu: !up indiancandy1

00:46:26 indiancandy1: i like thr 3rd girls nipples

00:47:02 mircea_popescu: ;;seen sexysaffron

00:47:02 gribble: sexysaffron was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 37 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 17 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <sexysaffron> ok!

00:47:21 indiancandy1: yes

00:47:23 indiancandy1: i remember her

00:47:29 indiancandy1: she did the utube vdeo

00:47:31 mircea_popescu: fetish chick.

00:47:32 indiancandy1: for 50dollars

00:47:33 indiancandy1: or something

00:49:41 indiancandy1: tits 4 30 dollars

00:49:45 indiancandy1: hmmm

00:50:36 brendafdez: http://i.imgur.com/rgzyJfv.jpg beat mine hands down? :3 I'm sure you do

00:50:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Otrg35 )

00:50:37 mircea_popescu: lol you're too price driven. gotta be service driven to succeed, you're a woman after all.

00:50:47 mircea_popescu: ask not what this produces for me, ask instead how i could best serve.

00:51:32 mircea_popescu: brendafdez how does one beat tits ?

00:51:37 mircea_popescu: i mean, metaphorically.

00:52:10 indiancandy1: brenda

00:52:12 indiancandy1: is that u

00:52:14 indiancandy1: ur cute yo

00:52:39 brendafdez: by havinf a more squishy pair i dunno. Yes, that's me. Not now, i downloaded it from somewhere, but still me :P

00:53:00 indiancandy1: dont tel me 10years back

00:53:03 indiancandy1: ur pretty girl

00:53:13 brendafdez: no, like 1 year ago

00:53:33 mircea_popescu: so earlier trinque dumps trinquette, now indiancandy1 finds true love in brendafdez...

00:53:42 mircea_popescu: truely teh lord taketh, the lord giveth away.

00:53:53 indiancandy1: ahahah

00:54:00 indiancandy1: whose trinque

00:54:02 indiancandy1: etc

00:54:23 trinque: o/^ a time to be born; a time to die o/^

00:54:37 mircea_popescu: brb having my cock sucked again

00:54:42 mircea_popescu: the first one didn't take.

00:54:49 brendafdez: hah

00:55:56 brendafdez: indiancandy1 he was the guy writing yesterday night about the issues with his wife/gf/something

00:56:12 indiancandy1: this is 4 u mp

00:56:15 indiancandy1: old pic

00:56:16 indiancandy1: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1UU8sSdjP5w/UwyPfj_xJ-I/AAAAAAAABLM/DgfaV_zyRa4/s1600/A7YSCtZCIAAhltB.jpg

00:56:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OtswTQ )

00:56:31 indiancandy1: bdms

00:56:33 indiancandy1: bdsm

00:58:13 indiancandy1: im looking 4 recent

00:58:17 indiancandy1: nipple pic

00:59:17 brendafdez: you're top quality, i can't compete :) but I have picture with the mazagazine with lots of issues: https://www.titsforbitcoin.com/pics/s-38.jpg?1427158661 the background says what a slob I am...

00:59:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ott3Fm )

01:01:00 indiancandy1: nice nail colur

01:01:06 indiancandy1: ur pretty

01:01:07 indiancandy1: babs

01:01:11 indiancandy1: babes************

01:01:11 brendafdez: thx it's the same I have on now <3

01:01:18 indiancandy1: dont forget u are fabulous

01:01:36 thestringpuller: lol mircea_popescu we are desiging your fortress/palace with a trap to push niggas down

01:01:47 thestringpuller: dat fall damage

01:02:17 indiancandy1: brenda have u met mp

01:02:21 indiancandy1: he lives near u

01:02:34 brendafdez: supposedly we inhabit the same city

01:03:06 trinque: thestringpuller: http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110615180140/gameofthrones/images/1/18/Bronn_defeats_Vardis.jpg << eh?

01:03:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OttH5N )

01:03:36 brendafdez: indiancandy but for sure, i was here first ;)

01:04:29 thestringpuller: trinque: essentially

01:05:09 *: asciilifeform opens crate with the ill-fated rngs (nominally - reworked)

01:06:05 brendafdez: but maybe they were REALLY random and you couldn't appreciate their kind of randomness u.u poor little things

01:11:12 brendafdez: I never had much success as to dating/sex/relationships, so I mostly learned languages through porn. One of my language learning resources for German back in 2007 was http://www.pantiesparadise.de/index.php i was an awesome place, and there was even another similar site, which must still be around. I never saw anything like this in English- or Spanish-land. There are som subreddits for used underwear and some girls sell theirs on eb

01:11:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18TLJgP )

01:11:14 brendafdez: ay and such but nothing compares to PP and YP. And I have to wonder why during all these years nothing has emerged to occupy this space.

01:13:32 danielpbarron: !up Bagels7

01:13:43 indiancandy1: u learnt languages because of porn

01:13:51 indiancandy1: that is classic statement

01:13:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00024547 = 2.5406 BTC [-]

01:14:13 indiancandy1: http://pzy.be/v/2/Screenshot_2015-03-20-05-38-34.png

01:14:14 assbot: PicsCrazy - simple image hosting ... ( http://bit.ly/1OtvBTQ )

01:14:16 trinque: that's a better excuse than "for the story"

01:14:19 indiancandy1: my tits 2days back

01:14:28 brendafdez: through porn, nothing else works

01:14:49 indiancandy1: damn

01:15:13 brendafdez: indiancandy they are awesome <3 those tits. I feel guilty now that I made you start posting pics :)

01:16:10 brendafdez: !up indiancandy1_

01:17:27 brendafdez: !up indiancandy1

01:17:44 brendafdez: indiancandy1 indiancandy1_ now I'm confused...

01:17:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00023854 = 5.8442 BTC [-] {2}

01:18:45 indiancandy1_: why

01:18:56 brendafdez: bc there's two of you in chan

01:19:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00023527 = 1.5175 BTC [-]

01:19:06 indiancandy1_: s there

01:19:13 indiancandy1_: some loser is imposting me

01:19:15 indiancandy1_: how gay

01:19:36 indiancandy1_: some real sad fuckjer

01:19:39 indiancandy1_: fucker

01:19:40 brendafdez: How can we know which one is for real? care to gpg sign something? :P

01:19:46 indiancandy1_: who can go suck his moms vagina

01:19:52 brendafdez: no, now for real, didn't you register your username?

01:19:59 indiancandy1_: no

01:20:00 indiancandy1_: but u no

01:20:03 indiancandy1_: this happens 2 m

01:20:06 indiancandy1_: quite often

01:20:14 indiancandy1_: i dont get the wot thing mircea talkin about

01:20:16 asciilifeform: trinque: i forgot to ask, who is/was lena dunham ?

01:20:17 indiancandy1_: its to complex

01:20:23 asciilifeform: trinque: specifically as it pertains to the woman

01:20:44 gabriel_laddel: indiancandy1_: read more

01:20:44 gabriel_laddel: indiancandy1_: start at bitcoin-assets.com

01:20:48 trinque: asciilifeform: lol, just the writer of HBO junk food

01:20:52 brendafdez: You have to talk to NickServ and say register <password> <email>

01:20:56 indiancandy1_: i cant

01:21:00 indiancandy1_: it hurts my eyes

01:21:01 indiancandy1_: lol

01:21:04 asciilifeform: trinque: yes, i was able to discover that much. but why the emotion.

01:21:50 brendafdez: first you register your username, then you start thinking about the wot

01:22:24 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-03-2015#1055439 << http://imgur.com/SXdFiZx

01:22:24 assbot: Logged on 17-03-2015 16:28:18; pete_dushenski: i'd never had a ball boy before and it. was. sweet.

01:22:25 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Otxn7r )

01:22:36 gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 http://fraudsters.com/2010/nsfw-pula-mea/ << scam

01:22:37 assbot: NSFW - Pula mea pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OtxobH )

01:22:51 trinque: asciilifeform: see pm, and also that said person consider herself an artist

01:23:41 indiancandy1_: huh

01:28:08 indiancandy1_: brenda

01:28:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18950 @ 0.00023527 = 4.4584 BTC [-]

01:28:14 indiancandy1_: why r u cominin on my name

01:28:26 indiancandy1_: that is real lame

01:28:31 indiancandy1_: i liked u b4

01:29:01 gabriel_laddel: .furrybait

01:29:02 gabriel_laddel: http://imgur.com/hUSTql1

01:29:03 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1OtyFPU )

01:29:39 indiancandy1_: wtf

01:30:27 trinque: indiancandy1_: not hard to register

01:30:45 indiancandy1_: there is no pooint

01:30:45 trinque: /msg nickserv register <your password> <your email>

01:30:48 indiancandy1_: whatever like

01:30:54 indiancandy1_: i dont get it

01:30:58 gabriel_laddel: !down indiancandy1_

01:31:20 trinque: gabriel_laddel: sir you've blocked the influx of tits

01:31:22 trinque: this is a cardinal sin

01:31:29 brendafdez: indiancandy1_ just wanted to see if your nickname was actually squatted, it is.

01:31:45 gabriel_laddel: trinque: I'm trying to teach her the WoT

01:31:55 brendafdez: but you downed her :(

01:31:58 gabriel_laddel: hit her over the head with it... perhaps she'll grok?

01:32:05 gabriel_laddel: you can up her

01:32:16 gabriel_laddel: I'm not going to do anything, just... read moar

01:32:20 brendafdez: i'm the nowest one around, that might be a faux pas...

01:32:31 trinque: having not done so, I'm aware of the lesson being taught

01:32:32 trinque: yet... tits!

01:33:00 trinque: !up indiancandy1_

01:33:06 indiancandy1_: :O

01:33:06 trinque: indiancandy1_: register yo nick!

01:33:13 indiancandy1_: i duno how to man

01:33:16 indiancandy1_: i cant understand it

01:33:19 trinque: indiancandy1_: that thing I said

01:33:24 indiancandy1_: the site

01:33:27 indiancandy1_: with the text

01:33:31 indiancandy1_: i dont get it

01:33:36 danielpbarron: indiancandy1_, what operating system is on your computer?

01:33:56 indiancandy1_: windows

01:33:58 brendafdez: danielpbarron you have to ask

01:33:59 brendafdez: ?

01:34:06 danielpbarron: ok, first step is to remove windows

01:34:11 indiancandy1_: y

01:34:25 danielpbarron: i guess before you do that, prepare a flash drive with an installer for openbsd or gentoo or something

01:34:26 gabriel_laddel: trinque: http://imgur.com/pNm3zxY

01:34:27 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Otzx7l )

01:34:41 indiancandy1_: i cant not use windows yo

01:34:58 danielpbarron: indiancandy1_, because winblows is insecure malware masquerading as an operating system

01:35:14 danielpbarron: you are smart enough to keep coming back here

01:35:17 danielpbarron: give yourself a little credit

01:35:28 brendafdez: you're scaring her, let her register the nick before

01:35:41 danielpbarron: well yeah, you can register nick with nickserv as you are now

01:35:59 trinque: gabriel_laddel: already seen 'em

01:36:05 indiancandy1_: daniel didnt even understand what u mean

01:36:24 danielpbarron: winblows is bad

01:36:37 trinque: danielpbarron: installing an OS is going to be too much at once

01:36:46 indiancandy1_: but the other things are complex

01:36:49 indiancandy1_: do you use apple

01:36:51 danielpbarron: shouldn't take longer than 6 months to figure out :p

01:37:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00021571 = 3.7749 BTC [-]

01:37:30 brendafdez: indiancandy1: Once you try linux, you come asking for more

01:37:38 danielpbarron: indiancandy1_, no; there is more than just winblows and crapple

01:38:01 indiancandy1_: you and your names

01:38:20 indiancandy1_: i use my laptop for basic things thoigh

01:38:25 indiancandy1_: browsing chating social media

01:38:26 indiancandy1_: thats it

01:38:33 danielpbarron: me too

01:38:40 brendafdez: with windows your laptop uses you

01:38:47 brendafdez: not just your laptop

01:38:50 danielpbarron: so why do you use such a bloated complicated piece of garbage OS?

01:39:01 indiancandy1_: whats OS?

01:39:07 danielpbarron: operating system

01:39:15 indiancandy1_: what do you recomend

01:39:21 danielpbarron: gentoo or openbsd

01:39:34 trinque: lol, cmere toddler, check out the deep end

01:39:35 trinque: SPLOOSH

01:39:38 danielpbarron: openbsd has an autoinstaller but might not do everything you'd like

01:39:44 indiancandy1_: okay will look into it

01:39:54 trinque: indiancandy1_: it's literally as simple as what I typed

01:39:59 trinque: IRC has commands which are preceded by slash

01:40:00 indiancandy1_: literally i browse online

01:40:04 indiancandy1_: i do cam shows

01:40:06 trinque: msg sends a message to a name

01:40:09 indiancandy1_: listen 2 music chat

01:40:10 indiancandy1_: thats it

01:40:13 danielpbarron: indiancandy1_, what web browser do you use?

01:40:15 indiancandy1_: oh and i watch movies online

01:40:19 trinque: /msg nickserv means send a message to nickserv

01:40:19 indiancandy1_: chrome

01:40:27 danielpbarron: chromium works flawless on gentoo

01:40:29 danielpbarron: that's what i use

01:40:39 indiancandy1_: why do you change the names

01:40:39 danielpbarron: it's *better* on *nix than on winblows

01:40:41 indiancandy1_: LOL

01:40:49 danielpbarron: it's called chromium on linux

01:40:54 trinque: danielpbarron: yeah I find that to be true as well

01:40:58 brendafdez: trinque how do you comment the "/"?

01:40:59 indiancandy1_: ahhh

01:41:09 indiancandy1_: okay

01:41:13 trinque: brendafdez: if you do two

01:41:14 indiancandy1_: so im looking into gentoo

01:41:18 brendafdez: thx

01:41:18 indiancandy1_: i got windows 8 atm

01:41:20 trinque: only necessary at the beginning

01:41:30 danielpbarron: i can play youtube videos and do twitter / instagram / facebook / whatever

01:41:45 indiancandy1_: and webcam?

01:41:52 danielpbarron: haven't tried that

01:41:54 brendafdez: no, linux is srs os, no webcam :P

01:42:03 brendafdez: j/k

01:42:09 danielpbarron: nobody wants to see my knockers

01:42:29 indiancandy1_: lol

01:42:30 indiancandy1_: i mean

01:42:32 indiancandy1_: can u webcam

01:42:37 indiancandy1_: like use it on skype etc

01:42:45 danielpbarron: idk lemme try google hangouts i guess

01:42:55 brendafdez: if you absolutely want to use skype, you can. All else you mention, you can.

01:43:05 indiancandy1_: i do skype shows

01:43:38 indiancandy1_: linux is good right

01:43:54 brendafdez: Skype is rogue, I gather there are safe(r) ways to run it anyway.

01:44:10 trinque: nsa gon get ya tits

01:44:31 trinque: frankly a Ubuntu live cd is probably a more sensible first try

01:44:42 trinque: make a stick with ubnetbootin or whatever

01:44:42 BingoBoingo: Yeah

01:44:44 brendafdez: it calls home and sends encrypted traffic even when idle, so you never know what it's doing.

01:44:59 indiancandy1_: ubuntu is that a african tribe

01:45:03 indiancandy1_: it sounds familiaer

01:45:06 trinque: lol

01:45:24 indiancandy1_: seriose

01:45:30 brendafdez: my first distro was ubuntu-based, I wish I had started with something else

01:45:38 BingoBoingo: Ubuntu is traditional African software, from Rhodesia

01:45:44 danielpbarron: i can't in good conscience recommend nigbuntu

01:45:57 danielpbarron: lol "ubuntu based" such meta

01:46:01 indiancandy1_: rhodesia doesnt exist

01:46:05 indiancandy1_: anymore

01:46:08 indiancandy1_: its zambia

01:46:10 danielpbarron: sadly :<

01:46:27 trinque: I mean just to have something that boots to a thing with a mouse pointer

01:46:31 trinque: "k, this is linux"

01:46:50 BingoBoingo: indiancandy1_: It's still Rhodesia in my heart

01:46:55 trinque: arch/gentoo/bsd ass torture later

01:46:56 indiancandy1_: why

01:47:00 indiancandy1_: you from there

01:47:01 indiancandy1_: ?

01:47:10 brendafdez: torture as in enjoyable?

01:47:11 BingoBoingo: indiancandy1_: Nah, just heard stories

01:47:17 danielpbarron: it's really not so hard!

01:47:39 trinque: brendafdez: gentoo quest is now boring for me, but sure

01:47:54 trinque: rpg where you diddle nobs on an infinite wall forever

01:48:01 brendafdez: I want to go the Arch way, never do

01:48:17 danielpbarron: if you must compromise, debian is not yet systemd-ified

01:48:26 indiancandy1_: bingo u lier

01:48:33 indiancandy1_: u never heard no stories

01:49:06 brendafdez: head is starting to ache, more coffee will do...

01:49:12 BingoBoingo: indiancandy1_: I heard it was named after a dude who funded a bunch of scholarships. Don't see how there could be anything bad in that.

01:49:49 *: asciilifeform misread 'google hangouts' as 'google handouts', almost fell down

01:50:28 indiancandy1_: https://twitter.com/MYSADCAT

01:50:30 assbot: WHY MY CAT IS SAD (@MYSADCAT) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/18TOQFE )

01:50:54 danielpbarron: well my webcam worked on ubuntu so it would probably work on gentoo if i recompiled my kernel to allow it

01:51:07 indiancandy1_: is ur cam a plugin

01:51:09 indiancandy1_: or inbuikt

01:51:13 indiancandy1_: built*

01:51:15 danielpbarron: it's built in

01:51:19 indiancandy1_: same

01:51:32 danielpbarron: that doesn't mean yours would work necessarily

01:52:21 danielpbarron: i guess it wouldn't hurt to make an ubntu installer flash drive and use it to boot live and see if your hardware is supported by a linux kernel in general

01:52:50 danielpbarron: do you have an old computer lying around that you can use as your offline machine?

01:52:56 brendafdez: resisting the temptation to install it will be to much

01:53:12 danielpbarron: well installing it would mean wiping out her winblows stuff

01:53:51 brendafdez: she can always do dp ehhr... dual boot

01:53:55 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Her big issue is supporting the cam tools. Ubuntu is probably going to be fine for the camera in general, Iffier for skype. Probably not possible for her to use all of the tools she could need for work on OpenBSD/Gentoo without going through hell and rewriting some of them.

01:54:56 danielpbarron: lol so ubuntu is linux for girls

01:55:19 trinque: and for white guilt

01:55:24 brendafdez: I subscribed to a linux for girls community a couple of months ago. Can't tell you what it's like

01:55:37 indiancandy1_: i have aa laptop

01:55:40 indiancandy1_: i dont own pcs

01:55:42 indiancandy1_: i got 2 laptops

01:55:52 indiancandy1_: one samsung notebook thing

01:55:58 indiancandy1_: and this hp touchscreen thing

01:56:30 danielpbarron: i knew a chick that used ubuntu before i had given up windows completely, and she wasn't ugly either! looking back on it that was quite exceptional

01:56:46 brendafdez: http://i.imgur.com/TQmHfIX.png

01:56:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18TPgfb )

01:57:34 danielpbarron: lol

01:57:49 danielpbarron: reminds me of the theo treatment

01:58:01 trinque: attestation of female compliance lol

01:58:09 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Oh, you emailed theo or what?

01:58:10 danielpbarron: !up Bagels7

01:58:13 trinque: "k now you can learn the handshake AND NEVER TELL ANYONE"

01:58:31 danielpbarron: lol no! I mean this whole "we need you to affirm the following before we can continue" b.s.

01:58:39 BingoBoingo: Ah

01:58:48 brendafdez: I was also asked to please not keep a public archive, but I doubt they'll be letting me in

01:58:52 trinque: you know, we're not a real cult until we have some brainwashing chant

01:58:58 trinque: this girls linux club has one up on us

01:59:23 BingoBoingo: indiancandy1_: If you like both laptops you have as they are you could get something like this to play with linux on http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=acer+aspire+pink&_frs=1

01:59:26 assbot: acer aspire pink | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/18TPx1H )

01:59:57 *: BingoBoingo doesn't know of anywhere other than ebay that routinely sells interesting computers.

02:00:43 danielpbarron: 20 bucks for one of these things? what's the catch?

02:01:34 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Looks like the auction just stated. also the description is rather blah

02:01:41 BingoBoingo: On the $20 one

02:02:28 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: To be fair the things were about $200 new

02:04:08 danielpbarron: This aver pink laptop is used and is very slow and old. It would be great to use for replacement items or even for a starter laptop. It does work it's just slow. << I can live with slow

02:04:39 BingoBoingo: I had a grey one passed it on to a younger brother. Ran ubuntu fine. Ran rather awesome with an SSD.

02:05:26 Bagels7: Hi, Can I get a dime please. http://i.gyazo.com/bc55f87a2ad2dd0d5c222e3a0901d962.png

02:05:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FSjCLK )

02:05:44 brendafdez: should talk to mircea_popescu

02:05:50 brendafdez: but I don't think that qualifies

02:06:52 brendafdez: Bagels7 you have to write a code on them, which he will provide

02:07:27 Bagels7: yes, I am aware

02:08:00 brendafdez: Bagels7 your first time here? :)

02:08:21 Bagels7: no, ive been lurking for months now

02:09:07 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

02:09:11 gribble: Current Blocks: 348936 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 1847 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 23 hours, 50 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 50205188349.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.46537

02:09:17 BingoBoingo: !t s.mpoe

02:09:17 assbot: Hell, ain't we about more fucked than a whore at closin' time, huh?

02:09:27 BingoBoingo: !t s.qntr

02:09:27 assbot: You know, I've had it up to here with this Indian malarkey.

02:09:38 BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe

02:09:38 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00021571 / 0.00025761 / 0.00028284 (1137196 shares, 292.95 BTC), 7D: 0.00021571 / 0.00029178 / 0.00033536 (17125866 shares, 4,997.13 BTC), 30D: 0.00021571 / 0.00035239 / 0.0004493 (82027201 shares, 28,905.83 BTC)

02:09:47 BingoBoingo: !t m s.qntr

02:09:47 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00021105 / 0.00026069 / 0.000301 (36659 shares, 9.56 BTC)

02:11:25 Bagels7: [22:05] <+Bagels7> Hi, Can I get a dime please. http://i.gyazo.com/bc55f87a2ad2dd0d5c222e3a0901d962.png <<< Probably some sort of witchcraft

02:11:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18TQ43I )

02:12:26 Bagels7: bad paste. [22:06] <+brendafdez> Bagels7 you have to write a code on them, which he will provide

02:20:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00022114 = 2.4104 BTC [+]

02:21:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26980 @ 0.00021745 = 5.8668 BTC [-] {3}

02:21:32 danielpbarron: wow, ebay is completely unusable unless I turn off cookie whitelisting

02:22:03 danielpbarron: lets me browse and think i'm logged in, and then hits me with a login page for any meaningful action like placing a bid or even asking a question to the seller

02:23:54 danielpbarron: Probably some sort of witchcraft << the secret code was just the random string assigned by webchat -- not sure what it would be for someone not using webchat

02:24:06 danielpbarron: maybe a shoe on head? or licking a hammer

02:24:47 danielpbarron: i have placed a bid for 20 USD for a pink laptop

02:25:06 brendafdez: use sniping

02:25:09 brendafdez: placing bids is bad

02:25:18 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron> lets me browse and think i'm logged in, and then hits me with a login page for any meaningful action like placing a bid or even asking a question to the seller << I find this typical. To be fair I'd rather it ask me to auth often and on actions. Ebay considered their auctions to be contracts.

02:25:20 *: danielpbarron is ebay n00b

02:25:59 danielpbarron: right but the extra special login WILL NOT WORK unless i disable cookie whitelisting

02:26:16 danielpbarron: just keeps cycling me back to the login page

02:26:22 BingoBoingo: Ah

02:26:53 danielpbarron: i don't mind putting *.ebay.com on my whitelist; I do mind putting all the other crap

02:32:22 danielpbarron: one of you girls who needs a linux training laptop should really outbid me on this pink thing

02:32:38 danielpbarron: guy responded, sounds like there's nothing substantially wrong with the thing

02:38:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25500 @ 0.00021036 = 5.3642 BTC [-]

02:54:42 BingoBoingo: scoopbot: -fetch

02:54:57 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/empire-in-decline-us-retreats-from-yemen-isis-escalates-to-doxxing/

02:59:47 brendafdez: weird wording "members of the Armed Forces to limit information the personal information they leak on social media"

03:00:39 BingoBoingo: fixed

03:01:14 BingoBoingo: I think

03:01:33 brendafdez: yep :)

03:01:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00021036 = 4.5227 BTC [-]

03:02:35 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066689 << lol

03:02:35 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:39:34; trinque: lol, cmere toddler, check out the deep end

03:02:46 mircea_popescu: i suspect they just want to see if the... buoys actually float.

03:03:00 brendafdez: " It is hard to interpret " there seems to be a 'not' missing

03:03:40 mircea_popescu: Special Forces soldier have been

03:03:48 brendafdez: unless you mean people are clueless

03:04:26 mircea_popescu: of dox ISIS included << comma before isis.

03:04:28 asciilifeform: again the 'doxxing' idi0cy

03:04:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so idiotic as all that.

03:05:05 mircea_popescu: isis is pioneering the "before you can get voice, pick a name off this list and torture their children on cam"

03:05:14 asciilifeform: what, it's a secret that mr x drops bombs for a living ?

03:05:33 mircea_popescu: yes.

03:05:40 BingoBoingo: thx, fxd

03:05:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever -met- these folks ?

03:05:57 asciilifeform: it takes all of 5 sec.

03:06:00 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo there's a good idea somewhere in there but kinda mollase'd out.

03:06:33 brendafdez: i thought you'd write "it's hard not to interpret...", but it's ok this way too i's say

03:06:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works. people who meet us armed forces socially and people who are willing to write USG SATAN in 5yo guts, provided the 5yo was spawned by a private first class have virtually no overlap.

03:07:04 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: yeah, but might be able to glue something with the molasses later.

03:07:44 mircea_popescu: it boggles my mind that one has to be "allowed" to introduce a defense.

03:07:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.0002133 = 4.074 BTC [+] {3}

03:07:47 mircea_popescu: why even bother.

03:08:12 asciilifeform: is there a 'you are biodiesel-on-the-hoof' defense?

03:08:26 asciilifeform: (well, there is, but it isn't given in a court room)

03:08:36 asciilifeform: wtf is it with this surrender idiocy anyway

03:09:41 mircea_popescu: whose ?

03:09:48 asciilifeform: snowden

03:09:53 mircea_popescu: hm ?

03:09:54 asciilifeform: or is it fictional

03:10:04 asciilifeform: him 'wishing for fair trial'

03:10:06 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did qntra eat my comment or they go to moderation or what ?

03:10:36 mircea_popescu: seems more like self-wankery. "here's what we'd do to mila kunis if she knew who we were or cared"

03:11:02 brendafdez: guys, I've seen gnome bashed security-wise a couple of times here in chan (or in the blogs, I'm not sure). What's so wrong with it? I'm really liking gnome-shell...

03:11:18 brendafdez: But if there's something I should know, I'd rather do

03:11:20 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066736 << booberbootin'.

03:11:20 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:44:42; trinque: make a stick with ubnetbootin or whatever

03:11:59 mircea_popescu: brendafdez http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-283/Gnome.html ?

03:12:00 assbot: Gnome : Security vulnerabilities ... ( http://bit.ly/1CTfb49 )

03:12:00 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Rescued the comment from the spamtrap

03:12:16 mircea_popescu: "GNOME Shell 3.14.x before 3.14.1, when the Screen Lock feature is used, does not limit the aggregate memory consumption of all active PrtSc requests, which allows physically proximate attackers to execute arbitrary commands on an unattended workstation by making many PrtSc requests and leveraging a temporary lock outage, and the resulting temporary shell availability, caused by the Linux kernel OOM killer."

03:12:18 mircea_popescu: sort of thing

03:12:23 brendafdez: hmm

03:13:42 mircea_popescu: it's just... not designed or implemented by people with an understanding of computing.

03:14:04 mircea_popescu: GNOME Display Manager (gdm) before 2.21.1 allows local users to change permissions of arbitrary directories via a symlink attack on /tmp/.X11-unix/. << lulzier one.

03:16:13 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is it because link ?

03:17:02 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Probably. Maybe it was a combination of link and maybe your commented here before cookie expired?

03:17:10 mircea_popescu: mebbe

03:17:40 BingoBoingo: I know you've fallen from *approved* to pending before.

03:17:52 mircea_popescu: such faet.

03:17:58 BingoBoingo: Sometimes cookies just get ate

03:18:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47700 @ 0.00021946 = 10.4682 BTC [+] {3}

03:19:01 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066787 << does it revolve around the general principle that girls are dumb and boring ?

03:19:01 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:55:24; brendafdez: I subscribed to a linux for girls community a couple of months ago. Can't tell you what it's like

03:19:05 mircea_popescu: that's usually how this shit goes.

03:19:46 mircea_popescu: affirm lol

03:19:55 brendafdez: mircea_popescu I was just curious to see what it's like in a 'linux for girls' mailing list, but I think they won't let me in if I don'f affirm nicely enough

03:20:14 asciilifeform: linux for girls << when do we get, e.g., non-ferrous metallurgy, 'for gurlz

03:20:22 mircea_popescu: ;;google valorie zimmerman tits

03:20:22 gribble: Ingomar Wesp - Google+: https://plus.google.com/+IngomarWesp; How to Play "Valerie" by Amy Winehouse on Guitar - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUvIo-MGxW0; Ken Randle | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ken.randle.96

03:20:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean bonbons ?

03:21:16 asciilifeform: just wondered why computing gets the treatment.

03:21:32 asciilifeform: what'd it do to deserve.

03:21:45 mircea_popescu: for some reason THIS dude pops up as the only result for valorie's tits : https://plus.google.com/101283637653265125298

03:21:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18TUYNX )

03:21:56 mircea_popescu: unremarkably, he's all about re-tweeting poettering on google twitter.

03:22:17 brendafdez: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

03:22:27 mircea_popescu: "My personal conclusion out of all this is mostly just that I don't want to have much to do with the worst offenders, and the communities they run. My involvement with the kernel community ended pretty much before it even started, I never post on LKML, and haven't done in years. Also, in our own project we are policying posts. We regularly put a few folks on moderation on the mailing list, and we will continue to do s

03:22:27 mircea_popescu: o. Currently, the systemd community is fantastic, and I really hope we can keep it that way."

03:22:39 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnWP2Emps1M << linked

03:22:41 assbot: malfunction - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18TV2NS )

03:22:53 mircea_popescu: this incidentally is pretty true : i don't know that anyone sane would want anything to do with lennart and his horde of derps either.

03:23:53 mircea_popescu: " have a thick skin (and so do most of the others involved in systemd, apparently), and I figure that plays a major role why we managed to bring systemd to success, despite all the pressure in the opposite direction. "

03:24:10 asciilifeform: succ355

03:24:35 mircea_popescu: ahaha. 1) systemd is not nor will it ever be successful. 2) systemd is a grease spot strictly because of the red hat drilling platform upstream. once that goes away, the whole set of fleas and their "successes" and "ideas" and choices and whatever also go away.

03:24:56 asciilifeform: i thought rathead was more or less defunkt

03:25:09 mircea_popescu: but i gotta appreciate the delusion. really, lennart thinks he's me ? cool.

03:25:17 mircea_popescu: should be a fun thing to watch, this.

03:25:22 []bot: Bet created: "Silver at or over $22/oz before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1132/

03:25:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, in the cisco way.

03:25:38 asciilifeform: more like the ibm way

03:25:46 mircea_popescu: defunct washington post/nytimes/libertard press spawned gawker.

03:25:57 BingoBoingo: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/23/gold-in-faeces-worth-millions-save-environment

03:25:57 assbot: Gold in faeces 'is worth millions and could save the environment' | Science | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/18TVknX )

03:26:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, the ideological cleavage is pretty clear, and it will only resolve itself in time.

03:27:27 asciilifeform: 'we are policying posts' << ?@!??

03:27:31 []bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for Yes on "Silver at or over $22/oz before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1132/ Odds: 97(Y):3(N) by coin, 97(Y):3(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,999.

03:27:35 mircea_popescu: d';oh.

03:27:37 asciilifeform: what's 'policying' ?

03:27:50 mircea_popescu: "If you are a newcomer to Linux, either grow a really thick skin. Or run away, it's not a friendly place to be in." << also do not be in linux.

03:28:02 mircea_popescu: lol. and this is not his employer's agenda. this is just, you know, because reasons.

03:28:04 mircea_popescu: these people.

03:28:13 asciilifeform: 'go fellate nsa directly, not through a hose'

03:29:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, it's pretty well articulated. consider the way this place works : once anything can be said, people suddenly manage to find "representatives" of groups they thought they hated quite likable. this happens on a regular basis.

03:29:40 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in idiot us discourse, because of all the "care" being "expended" to "protect", nobody can talk to anyone about anything, and as a result everyone hates everyone else for no reason.

03:30:05 mircea_popescu: then they morally responsible for the cesspool turn around and accuse the pillars making sanity possible of... you know, "fish rots from the head"

03:30:16 mircea_popescu: the reason chinese peasants are starving is not enough socialism, dontcha know.

03:30:27 asciilifeform: happens on a regular basis << wai wat

03:30:31 mircea_popescu: so fucking banal in its "cultural revolutionary war" rehash it's really hardly worth the mention.

03:32:01 mircea_popescu: brendafdez turns out half the people in the google grup of "women interested in linux" are actulaly guys.

03:32:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think most recently it was "hey, this christian dude isn't all bad"

03:33:00 asciilifeform: yes i recall. where else though

03:33:40 mircea_popescu: i don't actually keep that well indexed a list of this score

03:34:03 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: betcha 100% of it is 'goldschl?ger' !

03:34:31 mircea_popescu: prolly more comes from the 10-50mn gold teeth

03:34:40 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Or the golden toilets at the local USG garisons erode

03:35:02 BingoBoingo: Golden toilet may not be mere metaphore

03:35:22 mircea_popescu: amusingly, n ceausescu was accused of this. people believed.

03:35:33 asciilifeform: like yanukovich

03:35:54 asciilifeform: and probably every 'tin dictator' of 20th c

03:36:09 mircea_popescu: serves them right for ruling over a group dumb enough to believe that shit.

03:36:25 mircea_popescu: somehow in the entire "must grow big fast" thing people omit to point out that well... you don't wanna rule over retards.

03:36:45 asciilifeform: 'we go to war with the army we have not the army we wish we had' (TM)

03:37:02 mircea_popescu: nobody forced him to be president.

03:37:12 asciilifeform: aha could've stayed shoemaker.

03:37:12 mircea_popescu: walkers and generals have very little in common.

03:37:34 brendafdez: mircea_popescu maybe the affirmation policying isn't being done right. Half the people in the fb lesbian dating groups are guys, too...

03:38:00 mircea_popescu: hahaha wait wait.

03:38:18 mircea_popescu: social justice warrior posing as transgender lesbian female to get cooch ?

03:38:26 asciilifeform: 'lesbian trapped in male body'

03:38:28 asciilifeform: (tm)

03:38:33 asciilifeform: (al schwartz)

03:38:34 brendafdez: whatever works, not that that especially does

03:38:38 mircea_popescu: i mean the entire "why do girls date assholes i have a great sense of humor she doesn't know what she's missing" beta lament is one thing

03:38:41 mircea_popescu: but going THAT FAR ?!

03:39:29 mircea_popescu: i like 69 as much as the next girl, but it never occured to me to pretend i'm a tupolev airplanewhile doing it.

03:40:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform truely usia is engaged in the empirical demonstration of the ancient notion that perversity knows no bounds.

03:40:32 asciilifeform: or schwartz's 'the titanic achivement of simultaneous boring -and- perverse'

03:40:41 mircea_popescu: i wonder if i could get tenure with a program on illiteracy.

03:40:47 mircea_popescu: you come study for 4 years how to be illiterate.

03:40:58 asciilifeform: already baked in every major us uni

03:41:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all perversion is boring to the normally endowed.

03:41:13 mircea_popescu: no but i mean, plainly said

03:41:19 mircea_popescu: oh, that's a problem isn't it. shit.

03:41:26 mircea_popescu: i just don't understand how the dumbworld works.

03:41:38 asciilifeform: i had similar idea once -

03:41:48 asciilifeform: come to antiuni to unlearn xxxx

03:42:11 asciilifeform: then they carefully waltz it out of yer brain

03:42:27 mircea_popescu: that was a chinese specialty.

03:44:51 brendafdez: you know, the whole betu thing sucks, and somteimes the coping strategy could well be 'fuck it, i didn't even want it in the first place, I'd rather be a woman where bug becomes feature'. Dunno, just speculating, I hadn't given it much thought before.

03:45:14 brendafdez: s/betu/beta/

03:45:18 mircea_popescu: doesn't work that way does it ?

03:45:52 brendafdez: dunno, wouldn't go back either, this state of 'it not working' is much preferred to the previous state of 'it not working'. By orders of magnitude.

03:46:07 mircea_popescu: preferred in the impersonal ? who prefers it ?

03:46:19 brendafdez: me

03:46:48 mircea_popescu: well maybe you miss the barn of a difference between "guy who is a girl because he prefers it" and "guy who claims to be a girl so as to [...]"

03:47:02 mircea_popescu: causes an' purposes baby.

03:47:08 brendafdez: ;)

03:47:22 brendafdez: I can't keep in memory every single article all the time

03:48:16 mircea_popescu: pretty decent part of a play or something this. "so if i become a woman will my sex work ?" "no, it still won't work" "So then ?" "well maybe you like it not working this way better."

03:48:57 brendafdez: Anyway, I don't think claiming it and presenting female so as to x would be a good strategy at all, if you don't prefer it, you'll end up changing your mind, because it's hard to put up with all the attached issues to being perceived a woman if you were only doing it for a specific purpose

03:48:59 mircea_popescu: quite exactly mirroring the consumer computing market. "my windows computer doesn't fucking work" "switch to gentoo" "will it work then ?" "no, but maybe you like the icons better"

03:49:12 mircea_popescu: brendafdez you ever seen daisy diamond ?

03:49:23 brendafdez: nope

03:49:39 mircea_popescu: well, other than the part that it has infanticide, maybe you should check it out.

03:50:17 brendafdez: k

03:50:38 BingoBoingo: More snowflaking http://jenmylo.com/2015/03/23/defending-drupal/

03:50:40 assbot: Defending Drupal | Jen Mylo, WordPress Cat Herder ... ( http://bit.ly/18TX0xx )

03:51:27 mircea_popescu: horrid fucking scheme omfg

03:52:38 BingoBoingo: ?ve given so many talks at WordCamps with a component about how it?s important to be nice, respectful, and welcoming ? including the use of appropriate language and imagery ? to the point that some people would really like to tell me to shut the fuck** up (or have!).

03:52:57 brendafdez: mircea, in all honesty what wasn't working was life to the point I didn't want to go on (should've put an ad on gofundme but didn't occur to me). That was solved: social intereaction now is a whole different thing and it's much better. The fact that I still don't get to have the sex I like with the people I like is a minor issue compared to social interaction being broken as a whole.

03:53:53 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "adrian pintilie" ?

03:54:18 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/adrianpintilie << this guy. would be ro drupal shop

03:54:20 assbot: Adrian Pintilie (@adrianpintilie) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/18TXcgc )

03:54:52 mircea_popescu: amusingly, i dun think he knows yet :D

03:55:28 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Oh so a marginalized Romanian is being pissed on by an empowered evangalist of politeness for interacting with the world according to his culture.

03:55:44 mircea_popescu: pretty much.

03:55:53 mircea_popescu: well... he's not marginalized. just marginal.

03:56:17 mod6: /names

03:56:20 mod6: oops

03:56:46 gabriel_laddel: Regarding lesbians. The definitive work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY0VmahBTkE

03:56:47 assbot: Sophomores - The Whitest Kids U'Know on IFC - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18TXm7B )

03:57:26 brendafdez: https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/578424272353300480


03:58:00 mircea_popescu: runs a tiny "digital agency" in practicaly akron, romania

03:58:00 mircea_popescu: http://www.listafirme.ro/softescu-srl-23226393/

03:58:01 assbot: SC SOFTESCU SRL din Bacau Bdul. Unirii 30, CUI 23226393 ... ( http://bit.ly/18TXofx )

03:58:22 mircea_popescu: one employee, 10-100k turnover a year sorta thing

03:58:59 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah so the WordPress politeness is oppressing him.

03:59:31 mircea_popescu: doubt anything but "why would anyone pay you to fuck up php, when php comes pre-fucked and if not indians will fuck it for 1/3 the price" opresses him.

04:00:19 mircea_popescu: ?You can feel good about our project without putting down other projects, so let?s keep it clean.? I said something similar << this, for the record, is fucking stupid.

04:00:59 mircea_popescu: putting dumb shit down is not about "your project". it's about your environment. you put shit down for the same reason you don't keep dirty textiles everywhere

04:01:19 mircea_popescu: which, obviously, these "cms geeks^H^H^H^H bums do keep. but anyway.

04:03:40 BingoBoingo: Such is the peril of conflating a common interest into "community"

04:04:00 mircea_popescu: if you don't do that, you stand at risk of being called a cult!

04:04:21 mircea_popescu: nothing more intense, interesting or functional than this much is allowed!!! it would be bad. THINK OF THE CHILDREN

04:34:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00021254 = 3.7407 BTC [-]

04:50:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11199 @ 0.00021254 = 2.3802 BTC [-]

05:06:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29069 @ 0.00022317 = 6.4873 BTC [+] {3}

05:28:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00022705 = 5.4719 BTC [+]

05:28:18 brendafdez: Ok, if gnome can't be trusted: I'll be switching to Bob. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpenYCIiDkM

05:28:19 assbot: Happy 20th anniversary, Microsoft Bob - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HwVfW1 )

05:30:14 brendafdez: It was the Metro interface back in 1995

05:37:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5718 @ 0.00022152 = 1.2667 BTC [-]

05:37:26 trinque: brendafdez: here's another good one http://www.smartcomputing.com/images/smartcomputing/fullsize/393n1209.jpg

05:37:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HwXit4 )

05:37:49 trinque: emulates a real tabbed binder for enhanced usability

05:39:04 trinque: http://reeseriverson.com/rriverson/pics/IMG_3373-800px.jpg

05:39:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HwXzfK )

05:42:29 mircea_popescu: !up marteen

05:42:50 brendafdez: Well, my first computer was a Pentium 100 Mhz with 8 MB RAM that my parents bought in 1996, I stayed with that thing until 2005 or so. For many years that meant that I used DOS and Win3.11 daily bc W98 was too much for that piece of hardware. Once around 1999/2000 I borrowed from a friend a linux book which came with a Red Hat CD but dual booting was not an option (also the HDD was like 500 MB). It brings back memories seeing those in

05:42:50 brendafdez: s, which I spent many years of my childhood with.

05:43:24 marteen: thanks mircea_popescu :)

05:43:31 mircea_popescu: sure.

05:43:43 marteen: I shouldn't be awake for longer than 30 minutes :)

05:44:22 mircea_popescu: looking at those pics... god almighty has the "visual" aka "graphical" interface been a dead fucking end omfg.

05:44:35 trinque: utterly pointless

05:44:41 brendafdez: Click on the dog, now click on want to change something, now...

05:45:17 mircea_popescu: swipe right to have sex with this dog

05:45:34 trinque: your mail's up his ass; he ate it

05:46:03 brendafdez: you can buy an expansion pack for $29.99 to get more dogs to have sex with, don't forget to mail your registration card

05:47:17 ben_vulpes: <indiancandy1_> i dont get the wot thing mircea talkin about << righteous

05:47:38 trinque: http://e.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/imagecache/inline-large/inline/2013/09/3017236-inline-ibooks-publishing0.jpg << what, 20 years later?

05:47:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HwZAbH )

05:47:45 mircea_popescu: ba is so ecclectic.

05:48:04 ben_vulpes: marteen, eh?

05:48:06 ben_vulpes: howdy, you

05:48:08 brendafdez: but they removed the dog...

05:48:13 mircea_popescu: that url scheme looks like it's channeling django the drupal dog.

05:48:27 brendafdez: and invented a nice skeumorphic word for it

05:49:04 marteen: ben_vulpes: hello!

05:49:11 ben_vulpes: oh god this ubuntu from africa thread

05:49:13 ben_vulpes: priceless

05:49:27 ben_vulpes: look at the boys trying to gently inculcate sense into her

05:49:45 mircea_popescu: it goes on for a while.

05:50:33 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Rye-New-Hampshire.html

05:50:34 assbot: Registered sex offenders in Rye, New Hampshire - crimes listed, registry-based, living in this city ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hx0fKa )

05:50:58 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066787 << why not?

05:50:58 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:55:24; brendafdez: I subscribed to a linux for girls community a couple of months ago. Can't tell you what it's like

05:51:02 mircea_popescu: holy shit, eight towns nobody heard about in a state that's barely extant, thousands of sex offenders ?

05:51:03 ben_vulpes: marteen: what brings you around here?

05:51:11 mircea_popescu: how many are there in total by now ? 1mn ? 10 mn ?

05:51:13 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: everyone's a sex offender in the states.

05:51:19 mircea_popescu: it seems so

05:51:29 ben_vulpes: piss in public - sex offender

05:51:34 brendafdez: ben_vulpes bc see this http://i.imgur.com/TQmHfIX.png

05:51:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hx0uVB )

05:51:35 marteen: ben_vulpes: i saw a reference to this channel on a mailing list

05:51:36 mircea_popescu: pissing is sex ?

05:51:46 ben_vulpes: it actually comes down to the "fight me and see" attitude of the attorneys

05:51:50 brendafdez: marteen which list? mine?

05:51:51 brendafdez: :P

05:51:55 marteen: brendafdez: yes

05:51:58 brendafdez: wow

05:52:02 ben_vulpes: plea bargin for sex offender or fight us for your life

05:52:03 trinque: also penises are illegal, they just have to find something else to say

05:52:10 mircea_popescu: John P. Mcsheehan

05:52:10 mircea_popescu: Crime: felonious sexual aslt, Conviction date: 1994-06-03

05:52:10 mircea_popescu: Crime: felonious sexual aslt, Conviction date: 1994-06-03

05:52:10 mircea_popescu: Crime: felonious sexual aslt, Conviction date: 1994-06-03

05:52:10 mircea_popescu: Crime: 3 counts of felonious sexual assault(victim 13 or older & under 16 & age diff more than 3 years),

05:52:16 mircea_popescu: 3 counts, because the girl was 15.

05:52:28 mircea_popescu: very odd counting.

05:52:48 ben_vulpes: no trigger plz

05:52:59 ben_vulpes: this triggers my america ptsd

05:53:01 ben_vulpes: plz stahp

05:53:16 ben_vulpes: can it be ptsd if i'm still living the nightmare?

05:53:17 mircea_popescu: anyway, turns out i misread the data. it's "residents per sex offender".

05:53:29 mircea_popescu: so basically... two guys, 5k pop -> 2l

05:53:36 ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot marteen

05:53:36 assbot: marteen is not registered in WoT.

05:53:43 ben_vulpes: marteen, you savvy gpg?

05:53:44 marteen: brendafdez: i've been lurking there for a little while :)

05:53:50 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it'd be dtsd.

05:54:13 marteen: ben_vulpes: sure

05:54:21 ben_vulpes: marteen: get in the wot then, eh?

05:54:22 marteen: ben_vulpes: I don't know what WoT is though :(

05:54:34 ben_vulpes: dtsd << makes me think of that eegan story asciilifeform

05:54:36 ben_vulpes: linked a bit back

05:54:38 ben_vulpes: !help

05:54:38 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

05:54:47 brendafdez: marteen they say 6 months is the bare minimum :P

05:54:48 ben_vulpes: oh god now i'm getting spammed by bots

05:54:56 ben_vulpes: trinque: plz to not overload !help

05:55:16 trinque: ben_vulpes: wut

05:55:19 brendafdez: marteen who are you in the list?

05:55:21 ben_vulpes: yous ay it

05:55:27 trinque: !help

05:55:27 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

05:55:31 trinque: lol

05:55:37 ben_vulpes: hyuuu

05:55:40 marteen: brendafdez: hhmm, I'm not sure I've been there for that long...

05:55:52 marteen: brendafdez: I've never sent anything, just read

05:55:55 trinque: yeah I'll change that

05:56:06 ben_vulpes: marteen: basically it's a gpg-backed ident thinger

05:56:15 ben_vulpes: nobody's going to take you seriously until you buy in

05:56:26 *: marteen readin about the wot...

05:56:28 ben_vulpes: brendafdez is that weird chick from ba

05:56:31 marteen: ben_vulpes: I see, thanks :)

05:56:38 ben_vulpes: whereas indiancandy is just that hilarious hoo-er

05:56:54 ben_vulpes: difference being...

05:57:06 brendafdez: she has better looking tits

05:57:18 ben_vulpes: that's your insecurity speaking.

05:57:21 ben_vulpes: no, wot participation.

05:57:31 brendafdez: ;)

05:57:33 ben_vulpes: we all know how the bsasians are about their 'security'

05:58:46 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066829 << is this a new one?

05:58:46 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 02:09:27; assbot: You know, I've had it up to here with this Indian malarkey.

06:08:04 brendafdez: maarten your IP shows you might be located in Mendoza, that's interesting, I there not long ago, with Sebastián Serrano and others, and we had a couple of presentations and a meetup. Do I know you?

06:08:42 marteen: brendafdez: yes, I'm from Mendoza

06:08:55 marteen: brendafdez: but, I'm afraid we don't know each other :(

06:09:24 marteen: brendafdez: I think I know which events you mention, but I couldn't not attend

06:09:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16151 @ 0.00020765 = 3.3538 BTC [-]

06:10:13 ben_vulpes: then you must've been there!

06:10:15 brendafdez: We need more sponsors to keep doing that hah, we had a couple for that trip, still didn't even break even

06:11:05 marteen: ben_vulpes: heh, sorry, I meant "I could not" :P

06:11:21 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i give up, how are a practicing gynecologist and a healthy dog the same?

06:12:16 marteen: (it seems I couldn't decide between "I couldn't" and "I could not" :P)

06:12:58 brendafdez: marteen do you use irc often? I was pretty much a virgin before getting into b-a. You could go to the #freenode channel and ask for a cloak, so not everyone will see your IP. Also, you might be interested in registering your username with NickServ so it doesn't get squatted like indiancandy1_ 's

06:13:18 brendafdez: !up marteen

06:14:01 marteen: brendafdez: oh, I've been using irc for a while :)

06:14:32 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/four-new-jersey-schools-infected-by-ransomware/

06:14:33 marteen: brendafdez: my username has been registered for a few years

06:14:33 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1064798 << oh come now it's because your salesforce is down there and sales is nasty dirty work programmer folk hate to do.

06:14:33 assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 07:55:57; trinque: all my money's coming from tejas; there's a reason for that

06:15:17 marteen: brendafdez: thanks a lot anyway :)

06:15:28 trinque: ben_vulpes: I was pissed

06:15:42 trinque: nbd

06:15:43 ben_vulpes: in more ways than one

06:16:00 trinque: ayep

06:18:30 brendafdez: marteen pretty nice to have a fellow list member over here. Were you reading the list in 2013? It was a space of sane and interesting discussion which has since been lost. That's why I mentioned b-a in my message, bc I htink some of the oldtimers might be interested. Also, we used to have wences and rdponticelli, both of them were also here back in the day.

06:18:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6982 @ 0.00021108 = 1.4738 BTC [+]

06:19:04 marteen: ;;gpg eregister marteen 050434ED71A1704C

06:19:06 gribble: Request successful for user marteen, hostmask marteen!~martin@ Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/050434ED71A1704C

06:19:34 ben_vulpes: marteen, you'll want to register with assbot for this crowd.

06:19:41 marteen: brendafdez: nope, back in 2013 I had no idea the list existed

06:19:47 brendafdez: !h

06:19:47 assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

06:20:39 marteen: brendafdez: well, I'm glad I came to this channel then :)

06:20:39 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1064878 << all hail the holy cunt

06:20:39 assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 08:53:20; mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/f54460da0cbc358c33a1304125119cb4/tumblr_mmwqr9Y3Ty1rsze6qo1_1280.jpg << the birth of an idea

06:22:09 marteen: ben_vulpes: oh, sure, let me see...

06:22:19 marteen: !register 050434ED71A1704C

06:22:19 assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.

06:22:26 brendafdez: the whole key id

06:25:36 marteen: oh, I see, thanks...

06:25:37 brendafdez: Key fingerprint = 15F6 BD45 240C 4679 C5F5 59B5 0504 34ED 71A1 704C

06:26:17 ben_vulpes: !register 15F6BD45240C4679C5F559B5050434ED71A1704C

06:26:17 assbot: Nick ben_vulpes is already taken.

06:26:34 ben_vulpes: well duh, assbot.

06:26:50 ben_vulpes: full fingerprint, marteen. "long", as they say.

06:27:21 marteen: !register 15F6BD45240C4679C5F559B5050434ED71A1704C

06:27:21 assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 15F6BD45240C4679C5F559B5050434ED71A1704C. This may take a few moments.

06:27:21 assbot: Key 71A1704C / "Martín <martinrd@gmail.com>" successfully imported.

06:27:21 assbot: Registration successful.

06:27:26 marteen: ben_vulpes: thanks!

06:27:28 ben_vulpes: brendafdez: just out of curiosity, do many people have things delivered across the river and shuttle them over via ferry?

06:27:49 ben_vulpes: !rate marteen 1 new blood

06:27:49 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ad8bfcdd35cd592c

06:28:06 brendafdez: I couldn't possibly know. The only people I know who do it are bringing in stacks of cash

06:28:29 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.marteen.1:7944d2caed41fbbd7aa09e713e695bfc06bea154bf64946071175cb7f764ac6f

06:28:29 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for marteen with note: new blood

06:28:47 ben_vulpes: hm well try it and let me know, eh?

06:28:51 brendafdez: ben_vulpes so when do I get my prize for bringing in new blood to please the gods through sacrifice?

06:29:10 ben_vulpes: !rate brendafdez 1 blood for the blood god

06:29:11 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6f4484e018020ae7

06:29:34 brendafdez: :D

06:29:42 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.brendafdez.1:285f1f9f410f44c13ace2538b25bd5d53eec2cc674b822e19fc67a1a35827a2f

06:29:42 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for brendafdez with note: blood for the blood god

06:30:02 ben_vulpes: i hope you're happy, jnerula...

06:30:23 brendafdez: ben_vulpes you need someone there you could ship things to?

06:31:02 brendafdez: ben_vulpes I could put you in contact with people who may want to do it, but I think they have their issues with customs too, not as stringent as argentina

06:31:03 ben_vulpes: interested in derpy small-scale arbitrage opportunities.

06:31:37 brendafdez: abritrage :)

06:31:45 ben_vulpes: kind of only insofar as it might get me lower price tickets

06:31:50 ben_vulpes: still fueling this rocket over here.

06:32:40 ben_vulpes: although, entertainingly, every day the election cycle grows closer, babe-o-tron grows more insistent about spending 2016 out of the country.

06:32:44 ben_vulpes: "couldn't agree more, dear."

06:34:12 *: trinque nods

06:34:12 brendafdez: !gettrust ben_vulpes assbot

06:34:13 assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user assbot: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 9 via 6 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/assbot | http://w.b-a.link/user/assbot

06:34:42 brendafdez: oh, so he still can't voice himself, right?

06:34:52 ben_vulpes: ?

06:35:03 trinque: !gettrust assbot martin

06:35:03 assbot: martin is not registered in WoT.

06:35:06 trinque: !gettrust assbot marteen

06:35:07 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user marteen: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/marteen | http://w.b-a.link/user/marteen

06:35:08 trinque: derp

06:35:14 brendafdez: oh :)

06:35:25 ben_vulpes: brendafdez: you must be new here :P

06:35:29 trinque: brendafdez: those in L2 or better can voice

06:36:40 brendafdez: ben_vulpes :P i'm am, but i've already fixed the lastness issue. No longer the newest, new flesh blood, and on it goes.

06:36:52 brendafdez: s/flesh/fresh/

06:38:38 ben_vulpes: as far as the wot goes, you are actually the newest member.

06:39:04 brendafdez: why? hasn't he just registered?

06:39:12 ben_vulpes: oh, ah.

06:39:20 ben_vulpes: !gettrust brendafdez

06:39:21 assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user brendafdez: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/brendafdez | http://w.b-a.link/user/brendafdez

06:43:30 ben_vulpes: now's your chance to !up yourself, marteen

06:44:05 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c i've got high hopes for the wot-site -- you set a high bar with WoL

06:44:06 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:44:54 brendafdez: marteen you can message !up to assbot and verify by decypting the string

06:48:33 ben_vulpes: wd.

06:48:45 marteen: nice... I need to automate this now

06:48:52 ben_vulpes: it

06:48:55 ben_vulpes: it's not so bad

06:49:10 ben_vulpes: the voice persists with your connection

06:49:17 marteen: oh, no more 30 minutes?

06:49:31 marteen: ok

06:50:00 ben_vulpes: 30 minutes is for strangers

06:50:55 marteen: cool

06:52:56 brendafdez: now whenever you're bored you can read logs or the blogs (http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com). One never reaches the end http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066689

06:52:56 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:39:34; trinque: lol, cmere toddler, check out the deep end

06:54:09 marteen: brendafdez: interesting! thanks :)

06:54:58 marteen: brendafdez: so... you planning on coming back to mendoza soon?

06:58:25 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065272 << christ what are you doing

06:58:25 assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 16:55:19; nubbins`: mod6 ben_vulpes FWIW downloading blocks on Darwin nubs.local 13.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 13.4.0: Wed Dec 17 19:05:52 PST 2014; root:xnu-2422.115.10~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64

06:58:27 brendafdez: well, i don't have plans, but it may happen. The last trip we made as part of the Giras Bitcoiners project was Asunción in Paraguay last December. The funding issue wasn't getting better. Only one of the trips allowed us to break even.

06:58:32 ben_vulpes: okay fine, share your recipe

06:58:47 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i need something beyond "turd" now

07:00:07 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell nubbins care to share your darwin recipe?

07:00:08 gribble: The operation succeeded.

07:00:23 brendafdez: This brings us to another issue which is the way the 'foundations' present themselves as as sort of official representation of bitcoin. That way they are better able to get funds from companies which want to be advertised and from membes of the community who want to 'be part of bitcoin'. It's what the FBA was/is doing and what the BF was/is doing on a much larger scale.

07:00:36 marteen: brendafdez: ok, I see

07:00:50 brendafdez: When we presented our project as an independent bunch of guys it wasn't the same.

07:01:14 marteen: makes sense

07:01:19 brendafdez: but who know, neither me nor the other 3 'founders' have buried it, so...

07:02:08 marteen: brendafdez: you mention 'funding issue'... how do you usually get this funding?

07:02:10 brendafdez: it was awesome for us as an experience I must say, getting to know the local communites, to travel so much, also to be able to promote one 'real use case' for bitcoin to local service providers

07:02:42 marteen: of course... I can imagine it must have been a great experience :)

07:02:56 ben_vulpes: burning suckers' cash always is.

07:02:59 brendafdez: through sponsors, we had some of them, bitpagos sponsored every trip, digicoins sponsored the trip to mendoza, beOk sponsored the trip to paraguay

07:03:11 ben_vulpes: hence the startup as flamethrower fueled by bezzlars metaphor.

07:03:32 brendafdez: :D

07:03:37 marteen: brendafdez: aah, cool!

07:03:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34817 @ 0.00020828 = 7.2517 BTC [-] {4}

07:06:45 brendafdez: but also it was always open to people who wanted to come with us. As generally we weren't even covering the costs, having more poeple participate usually meant each one had to pay a smaller fraction, usually less money.

07:08:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00021289 = 5.748 BTC [+]

07:09:58 marteen: brendafdez: ah, of course... that's nice

07:11:16 brendafdez: I wanted to write an article on 'bitcon evangelism' or 'selling bitcoin', which of course is selling it to the companies not the people :P

07:12:07 brendafdez: selling the campanies the idea that you'll be selling them with bitcoin to people who attend the talks/conferences/etc

07:13:39 marteen: that would be great

07:13:42 brendafdez: The whole 'evangelism' thing is bullshit, but there are incentives to do it, companies paying for it, who get their money from vcs and desperately need adoption, users, whatever

07:14:08 marteen: well i think we need more companies accepting bitcoin

07:14:17 cazalla: mircea_popescu: why let everyone think beauty and brains don't mix ? <<< get those eyes checked, perhaps same time as indiancandy gets that nose seen too

07:14:44 brendafdez: the point about evangelism is that if you suck the right cock you may make a living out of it. I'm not naming names

07:15:00 marteen: hhmmm, interesting...

07:15:44 marteen: brendafdez: you you can make a living out of it, even being from argentina?

07:17:03 brendafdez: why do we need more companies 'accepting bitcoin'? No, really, why? http://www.contravex.com/2014/02/25/matters-of-bitcoin-merchant-adoption/

07:17:05 assbot: On Matters of Merchant Adoption | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1FSEbaU )

07:17:44 brendafdez: I told you i wasn't even breaking even :P ask the FBA guys, they got funded in late 2012 to do it, and a few who suck theirs get a small part of the cake

07:19:46 marteen: oh, ok...

07:20:08 marteen: well, I mean... I'd like to buy more things more directly with bitcoin...

07:20:22 brendafdez: you can sell the bitcoin and buy with fiat,

07:20:28 cazalla: brendafdez: indiancandy they are awesome <3 those tits. I feel guilty now that I made you start posting pics :) <<< great tits, great body, but what a busted face she has

07:20:31 brendafdez: if you hold gold you dont need merchants to accept gold

07:20:53 marteen: brendafdez: yea, but that's still pretty inconvenient (selling btc for fiat)

07:21:17 brendafdez: why is it? bc there are no people doing it cash in mendoza? i know for a fact thats not the acse

07:21:27 brendafdez: if you were in a small town and no bank account then maybe inconvenient

07:22:51 marteen: I don't know any people here in mendoza that provide that service

07:22:57 marteen: and still, it's an extra step

07:23:57 brendafdez: santiago castiglione travels there often bringing cash, the two btb braindamaged morons do it, if you can stand their stupidity. Tha saner person in Mendoiza is Adriel Araujo from Bitpagos. Contact him, he'll be able to help you, no doubt.

07:24:12 marteen: and if it involves a bank account, then that adds to the inconveniency

07:24:23 marteen: brendafdez: wow, thanks for all this info :)

07:25:29 marteen: anyway, even if there's availability of btc <-> fiat services, i'd much rather avoid the intermediaries (and the banks)

07:30:15 brendafdez: the banks can be avoided entirely. The intermediary is not a must. You can just get in contact with other people, publish your own listings and such. When you're paying with bitcoin, they are selling the bitcoin, so the cost is also there. In Argentina anyway pretty much no transactions at PoS are made in bitcoin, it's just a show for companies which pretend to be doing busniess helping merchants accept bitcoin

07:32:47 brendafdez: If mircea or pete were online and willing to discuss it, it would be easier, they have a more solid and convincing rhetoric than I could dream of myself

07:33:14 brendafdez: but it's problematic for many reasons to think that the value of bitcoin is to be able to pay coffe at a shop

07:34:14 brendafdez: bitcoin is like gold. And gold is no less valuable when you can't spend it at a coffe shop. And even if there are large costs to exchange such modest amounts of gold or silver

07:37:12 marteen: hmm, ok... I think I understand your point

07:38:08 brendafdez: There was a point in bitcoin history when bitcoin was basically free, it had no monetary value, at least during 2009, and mostly also 2010, now it would be unthinkablee

07:38:55 brendafdez: In the future we'll look back and wonder how bitcoin transactions used to be free, when they have large costs involved and it needs be so to keep the network secure

07:39:37 brendafdez: so when blocks fill up and transactions start competing and miner subsidy goes down halving after halving the cost issue of why its not for coffee will be clearer

07:40:27 marteen: but I would still like to be able to make small electronic value transactions without recurring to a central trusted party though

07:40:43 marteen: would this be possible?

07:41:02 marteen: ever?

07:41:36 brendafdez: i'm not sure, there are alternatvies, alternative chains, sidechains, whatever, which certainly can't compete with bitcoin.

07:41:48 brendafdez: right now bitcoin is an alternative even for coffee

07:42:20 brendafdez: however i doubt it's a better technology than handning a piece of paper in exchange for drinks

07:42:45 marteen: hhmmm, i don't like these papers

07:42:51 brendafdez: print your own

07:42:57 marteen: hehe

07:43:31 *: ben_vulpes suspects a sybil

07:43:46 brendafdez: after all, fiat and the monopoly of money by the state has been going for barely a century.

07:44:04 *: brendafdez may be saying lots of bullshit here. Hope to get corrected.

07:44:38 brendafdez: for most all the rest of human history private money was no big deal

07:45:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26831 @ 0.00021616 = 5.7998 BTC [+] {2}

07:46:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5569 @ 0.00021944 = 1.2221 BTC [+]

07:46:35 BingoBoingo: lol https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1202858

07:46:37 assbot: Bug 1202858 – restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*) ... ( http://bit.ly/1BK4DNV )

07:46:59 marteen: brendafdez: btw, thanks for taking the time to explain all this to me :)

07:47:07 brendafdez: that's where we're heading back with bitcoin, taking away the power of the government. Sometimes one loses the big picture. Taking the ability of the government corporation to finance itself through robbery (taxes) and deceit (inflation) is important. Decentralizing coffy purchases at small shops maybe not so much. You could do it in centralized brandatokens and get your bitcoin sent at the end of the day. If I charge you much you go

07:47:07 brendafdez: indiancandytokens instead.

07:47:08 marteen: i find it all really interesting

07:48:00 marteen: ohh, yea, that last part I could accept

07:48:19 brendafdez: it's not that bad having centralized private tokens.

07:48:31 marteen: I agree with that

07:48:34 brendafdez: for certain use cases.

07:49:07 marteen: the key there is that it should be very easy and almost free for anyone to create a centralized private token

07:49:14 BingoBoingo: brendafdez> bitcoin is like gold. And gold is no less valuable when you can't spend it at a coffe shop. And even if there are large costs to exchange such modest amounts of gold or silver << It going take some intermediate step. Instead of trading you highly valuable Bitcoin/Plutonium for coffee you trade it for big bundle of credits at the coffee shop or whatever the local cash sustomarily used for small value trades is

07:50:06 brendafdez: but for quite a while there's been a trend to sell 'decentralization of your grandma through smart contracts in the blockchain' as the next big thing, that's maybe just smoke and meaningless bullshit to appeal to the vcs

07:50:49 brendafdez: BingoBoingo brendatokens would be fine.

07:51:34 marteen: coffeetokens

07:51:43 marteen: I can trust my coffee shop

07:52:16 brendafdez: if they can trust you back, especially now that youre in the wot you could pay with your own

07:53:15 marteen: and I can even trust the 'verdulero', etc., but i definitely don't trust my bank

07:53:20 brendafdez: you'll like it: http://szabo.best.vwh.net/shell.html

07:53:21 assbot: Shelling Out -- The Origins of Money ... ( http://bit.ly/1BK562B )

07:53:52 marteen: brendafdez: thanks, I saved it for reading it later

07:54:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12591 @ 0.00021946 = 2.7632 BTC [+] {2}

07:58:29 brendafdez: There's also qntra, it's the sane place to get your bitcoin cup of coffee without all the CoinDesk shit

07:58:58 brendafdez: that's where one goes when time's not enough to read logs and blogs :P

08:00:03 marteen: nice, thanks

08:00:11 brendafdez: Next time I'll see BingoBoingo I'll try to get him to gpg sign something that says they want my Spanish translations :P

08:00:27 brendafdez: *Next time I see BingoBoingo really drunk

08:00:31 brendafdez: I was going to say

08:01:08 brendafdez: Sadly he will not be coming to the conference, so I can't put substances in his drink to make him open the keyring (?

08:40:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 10000 @ 0.00020865 = 2.0865 BTC [-] {2}

08:41:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20509 @ 0.00022537 = 4.6221 BTC [+]

08:44:34 cazalla: <brendafdez> Next time I'll see BingoBoingo I'll try to get him to gpg sign something that says they want my Spanish translations :P <<< did we not make it clear that they are wanted?

08:45:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5041 @ 0.00022041 = 1.1111 BTC [-]

08:45:45 cazalla: my suggested would be to set you up on es.qntra.net, but ask mircea_popescu and BingoBoingo for their thoughts

08:45:53 cazalla: suggestion* even

08:46:37 cazalla: alternatively, translate the spanish bitcoin news to english and have it on main qntra

08:57:00 mircea_popescu: es. works

09:00:15 punkman: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1202858

09:00:17 assbot: Bug 1202858 – restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xecN5z )

09:00:56 mircea_popescu: now that's behaviour i can get behind!

09:01:27 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067167 << wet nose.

09:01:27 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 06:11:21; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i give up, how are a practicing gynecologist and a healthy dog the same?

09:08:33 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067250 << agreed, guy's incredibly talented for web design without being retarded. he ruined all sorts of pet theories with that.

09:08:33 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 06:44:05; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c i've got high hopes for the wot-site -- you set a high bar with WoL

09:10:01 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067273 << scammers will scam. unavoidable with any new thing.

09:10:01 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 07:00:23; brendafdez: This brings us to another issue which is the way the 'foundations' present themselves as as sort of official representation of bitcoin. That way they are better able to get funds from companies which want to be advertised and from membes of the community who want to 'be part of bitcoin'. It's what the FBA was/is doing and what the BF was/is doing on a much larger scale.

09:12:08 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067295 << i'm a talented politician yo, dun hate.

09:12:08 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 07:14:17; cazalla: mircea_popescu: why let everyone think beauty and brains don't mix ? <<< get those eyes checked, perhaps same time as indiancandy gets that nose seen too

09:14:27 mircea_popescu: ahh check it out, everyone's asleep, i got the whole multiplex all to myself.

09:15:54 jurov: heh i just woke up

09:16:28 mircea_popescu: top o' the mornin' for you.

09:16:43 mircea_popescu: hey, i recall your friend that was going to help with eulora for windows. he ever got in wot ?

09:17:03 jurov: not heard from him since :(

09:17:12 mircea_popescu: any way to ping him ?

09:17:47 jurov: will email/phone him

09:17:50 mircea_popescu: thanks.

09:18:16 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067323 << check it out, all the stuff brenda figured out on her own. pretty quick twist eh.

09:18:16 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 07:39:37; brendafdez: so when blocks fill up and transactions start competing and miner subsidy goes down halving after halving the cost issue of why its not for coffee will be clearer

09:18:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28712 @ 0.00022758 = 6.5343 BTC [+]

09:22:14 fluffypony: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1202858

09:22:16 assbot: Bug 1202858 – restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xedMTv )

09:22:38 mircea_popescu: lol even found the old szabo threads and everything. i'm curious what comes of this.

09:22:50 mircea_popescu: fluffypony oddly, was in log.

09:22:53 fluffypony: oh

09:23:03 mircea_popescu: which... i grant you... figure the fucking odds.

09:23:10 fluffypony: lol

09:23:22 mircea_popescu: fucking groupthink in here i swear.

09:23:36 mircea_popescu: you people are worse than slackernews.

09:25:50 mircea_popescu: cazalla you know how to set that shit up tho ?

09:27:44 mircea_popescu: probably the easiest way would be to just create the es. en. spaces and install a fresh wordpress for es.

09:27:52 mircea_popescu: seeing how wp does not actually support multilanguage natively.

09:41:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00022758 = 3.7551 BTC [+]

09:45:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00022793 = 1.926 BTC [+] {2}

09:56:41 jurov: O.o :P dat log.. fake indiancandy?

09:59:14 mircea_popescu: who's to know.

09:59:27 mircea_popescu: "Iran will emerge, whether we like it or not, as the central power in their sphere," said Aaron David Miller, an analyst at the Wilson Center and former State Department official.

09:59:28 mircea_popescu: heh,

09:59:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30950 @ 0.00022317 = 6.9071 BTC [-] {2}

09:59:40 mircea_popescu: omnipotent impotence! make way! all hail!

10:02:46 mircea_popescu: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/19/syria-predator-drone-isis/25034633/

10:02:47 assbot: Drone shot down by Syria vexes Pentagon, White House ... ( http://bit.ly/1GOIum7 )

10:03:12 mircea_popescu: methinks the entrie drone thing is getting abandoned eventually. they don't actually seem to work worth a shit.

10:03:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53338 @ 0.00022189 = 11.8352 BTC [-] {2}

10:04:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9862 @ 0.00023126 = 2.2807 BTC [+]

10:17:38 mats: wtt is going on with the share price

10:18:36 mats: im hemorrhaging money

10:19:43 mircea_popescu: yeah down for what, two weeks straight by now ?

10:20:30 mats: something like that

10:35:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12525 @ 0.00023126 = 2.8965 BTC [+]

10:35:34 punkman: mats, you just gotta buy more now

10:40:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00023056 = 4.6112 BTC [-] {3}

10:41:04 mircea_popescu: or sell, lol

10:42:04 punkman: maybe the shareholders didn't like that all new accounts are depositing to private addresses?

10:43:07 mircea_popescu: timing seems off.

10:49:27 punkman: !t m s.qntra

10:49:27 assbot: Yeah. No damn tobacco, that's for sure.

10:51:53 mircea_popescu: 4 letters.

10:51:57 mircea_popescu: !t m s.qntr

10:51:57 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 7D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00024954 / 0.000301 (46659 shares, 11.64 BTC)

10:55:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00022635 = 2.2635 BTC [-]

10:58:27 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/house-of-games/

11:04:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00022693 = 3.3813 BTC [+] {2}

11:58:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: methinks the entrie drone thing is getting abandoned eventually. they don't actually seem to work worth a shit << whatcha talking about, they're as good for rocketing trucks full of unarmed people as they ever were...

11:58:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00022706 = 3.9963 BTC [+]

11:59:25 asciilifeform: 'restarting squid results in deleting all files in hard-drive (rm -rf /*)' << not bug, pheature!

11:59:57 asciilifeform: 'Я просто кончил :) красношляп доставляет!' << from comments

12:00:16 mircea_popescu: if they ever get close to a truck.

12:00:22 asciilifeform: approx. 'i simply cummed. redhat's simply something'

12:00:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the way the machines are typically used is that usg knows precisely where the truck will be

12:01:05 asciilifeform: at time t

12:01:32 asciilifeform: often because someone inside has a phone or is otherwise pissing rf

12:01:58 asciilifeform: (or did at any point while truck was moving)

12:02:20 mircea_popescu: provided of course they're not in range of fire,

12:02:24 mircea_popescu: or of gsm jamming. or etc.

12:02:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21595 @ 0.00022549 = 4.8695 BTC [-] {2}

12:02:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you mean gps jam ?

12:03:21 mircea_popescu: right

12:04:59 asciilifeform: a little high for rifle, but a ww2-era airplane could take it down.

12:05:24 asciilifeform: none of the american unmanned machines have any defensive armaments.

12:05:36 asciilifeform: (they are not built to fight, but to assassinate)

12:06:39 asciilifeform: 'predator', interestingly, has a top speed similar to a decent car's.

12:06:52 asciilifeform: a small flying machine 'toy' could easily catch up with it.

12:08:02 asciilifeform: payload can be ordinary thermite.

12:10:04 asciilifeform: (the 'no defenses' thing is not strictly true, at one point 'predator' was fitted with a small anti-aircraft rocket, iirc in gulfwar-2)

12:10:10 nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065272 << christ what are you doing << 8)

12:10:10 assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 16:55:19; nubbins`: mod6 ben_vulpes FWIW downloading blocks on Darwin nubs.local 13.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 13.4.0: Wed Dec 17 19:05:52 PST 2014; root:xnu-2422.115.10~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64

12:10:31 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i need something beyond "turd" now << wai wat

12:10:40 nubbins`: i'll put together a makefile.osx and some modification instructions that you can ritually burn

12:10:56 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you really need a working crapple build i think mod6 had one

12:11:07 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but consider reconsidering

12:11:24 nubbins`: <--working crapple build

12:11:44 nubbins`: currently block182959

12:12:02 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thousands of sex offenders << my understanding is that the lion's share of these are 'statutory' violators

12:12:15 nubbins`: anyway it's srsly two sed commands and a new makefile

12:12:24 nubbins`: to modify for darwin/osx

12:12:32 nubbins`: probably bsd as well, i guess

12:13:15 asciilifeform: aha there we go.

12:13:22 asciilifeform: perhaps we can do, e.g., vms, next.

12:13:28 asciilifeform: or TOPS-10

12:13:40 nubbins`: (example: sed 's/MSG_NOSIGNAL/SO_NOSIGPIPE/' on two files is approx. half the work)

12:13:48 nubbins`: haha man, i had to use a VMS system on my first work term

12:13:53 nubbins`: i'm still not sure wtf that was

12:14:10 asciilifeform: the non-retarded sibling of unix

12:14:14 nubbins`: :D

12:14:32 nubbins`: it was always a case of "please check this before i hit enter"

12:15:18 mircea_popescu: nubbins` publish

12:15:39 nubbins`: will do later today

12:15:41 asciilifeform: i'm actually rather surprised that nobody's clamouring to reintroduce winblows build

12:15:56 asciilifeform: one would think somebody has a botnet deployment to consider

12:15:57 nubbins`: asciilifeform speaks to the preferences of the room, i guess

12:17:08 asciilifeform: i zapped the win32 ifdefs on account of them cluttering up my reading material, and for no particular other reason

12:17:41 asciilifeform: (would have done the same for nintendo ifdefs if there had been any)

12:18:21 asciilifeform: incidentally, the ifdef-iness of bitcoind speaks for the horrendous mega-ugly of cpp

12:18:22 nubbins`: ^ ha

12:18:32 asciilifeform: which lacks even such an elementary thing as mix-ins

12:18:41 asciilifeform: Adlai ^

12:19:03 nubbins`: << had to sacrifice a few IFDEFS from makefile.osx

12:19:03 asciilifeform: (the one other fella here who might know what i speak of)

12:19:31 nubbins`: i'll warn that this is *not* a svelte makefile, more fat can almost certainly be trimmed. this is simply a "compiles, runs" thing

12:19:53 asciilifeform: nubbins`: any changes -not- in common with openbsd ?

12:19:57 asciilifeform: out of curiosity

12:20:50 nubbins`: sum total of changes: modify SSL_ARCH_TYPE to Darwin64-x86_64-cc

12:20:58 nubbins`: replace sha256sum with shasum -a 256

12:21:08 nubbins`: replace MSG_NOSIGNAL flag with SO_NOSIGPIPE

12:21:23 asciilifeform: starting from item 3, is in bitcoind proper ?

12:21:39 nubbins`: yes, started from 0.5.3 base

12:21:46 nubbins`: irc.cpp and net.cpp

12:22:08 asciilifeform: was asking, whether any but the last item (signals) concerned bitcoind source itself

12:22:57 nubbins`: ah, right. no

12:23:39 nubbins`: the signals thing is the only actual code change

12:23:48 asciilifeform: aha

12:24:42 nubbins`: random forum quote: "In linux sockets (BSD 4.4 compliant) there something called MSG_NOSIGNAL"

12:25:16 nubbins`: so without having the ability to check, i'd advance that SO_NOSIGPIPE might be an osx-specific fix

12:25:31 Adlai: my pet theory of late is that satoshi intentionally built 0.1 on winblows as a red herring

12:25:53 nubbins`: oh and the 0.5.3 makefile.osx doesn't have *any* of the hardening stuff that makefile.unix does

12:26:01 nubbins`: so uh, there's that

12:26:05 nubbins`: but again. PoC here.

12:26:08 nubbins`: it compiles.

12:26:47 nubbins`: was able to find equivalents for most, but not all, of the hardening compile options

12:43:25 jurov: http://bturn.com/10286/soviet-erotic-alphabet :B mircea_popescu asciilifeform

12:43:30 assbot: Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpCxgG )

12:45:46 jurov: лoл

12:47:22 mircea_popescu: notbad.jpg

12:48:42 nubbins`: ahhh... hot coffee, cool code, and les deux rondes

12:48:52 nubbins`: notbad.tuesday

12:49:05 jurov: nubbins`: you can use these as illuminations for alf's book

12:49:38 asciilifeform: 'в советском союзе секса нету!' (TM)

12:49:53 nubbins`: that's one way to fight illiteracy

12:50:46 nubbins`: lel @ drawing for Ʒ

12:51:12 nubbins`: is that /pan/ about to poke someone?

12:51:32 nubbins`: nm, that's not a flute

12:52:11 nubbins`: http://bturn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Soviet-sex-12.jpg lel "one one of us has a car, baby"

12:52:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpEMk5 )

12:52:16 nubbins`: *only one

12:53:53 nubbins`: mega-lel @ top 4 comments

12:55:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35950 @ 0.00022418 = 8.0593 BTC [-] {2}

13:04:26 nubbins`: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2015/03/23/voices/spare-thought-western-men-trapped-japan/#.VRFfxzTF-kB

13:04:29 assbot: Spare a thought for the Western men trapped in Japan | The Japan Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpIgTz )

13:04:52 nubbins`: tldr "i thought setting down roots in a foreign country where i'm a visible minority who doesn't understand the language or culture would be EASY but it's HARD"

13:05:58 asciilifeform: nubbins`: there was an entire newsgroup for these folks (and 'candidates') once - soc.culture.japan

13:06:01 asciilifeform: i used to read it.

13:06:22 nubbins`: "dave's ESL cafe" full of similar

13:06:36 nubbins`: with more of a lean towards korea

13:06:50 asciilifeform: the 'pathology' was that these people imagined they wanted to move to japan, but what they -actually- wanted was: -to have always lived there-

13:06:54 asciilifeform: and that wasn't on the menu.

13:07:03 nubbins`: i, on the other hand, thought setting down roots in above would be HARD but it was only MODERATELY DIFFICULT AND SOMETIMES FRUSTRATING

13:07:12 nubbins`: asciilifeform +1000

13:07:29 nubbins`: they wanted the trappings of japanese without being japanese :D

13:07:33 asciilifeform: no

13:07:39 asciilifeform: the more serious ones wanted to 'be japanese'

13:07:48 asciilifeform: but this doesn't work unless, well, you are

13:08:13 nubbins`: oh hmm, the manga fans and neckbeards who say "that's so kawaii"

13:08:20 nubbins`: a lot of them don't make it to japan

13:08:22 asciilifeform: the only reason why jp is still interesting to anybody is precisely that these folks -can't- get in their wot

13:08:24 nubbins`: the ones that do, i truly pity

13:08:53 nubbins`: because they quickly alienate themselves from the locals as well as the other foreigners

13:09:18 Adlai: especially that one guy

13:09:20 asciilifeform: the foreigners who are in jp for the long haul, are typically on serious business and live among their own kind.

13:09:34 nubbins`: the one with the blond ponytail and a dragon painted on his jeans in the subway? yeah, that guy

13:09:43 nubbins`: asciilifeform +1

13:09:48 Adlai: no, the one with the frapuccino

13:10:07 Adlai: although it's a little hard to pity him, given the nonzero chance that he also has a few coins

13:10:21 asciilifeform: in other news: http://imgur.com/YqbQh33,VN8dqBv,xJ6WGhl,nTPgWYW,WX6hpiT#4

13:10:22 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcFOR9 )

13:10:25 nubbins`: there's a term in korea for young people who live poor at home so they can buy frappucinos in public

13:10:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^

13:10:49 nubbins`: Adlai disposable income in .jp might not be as much as you think

13:10:56 asciilifeform: reworked units appear to pass basic test

13:11:14 nubbins`: dat smt

13:11:17 asciilifeform: fifth photo shows replaced cap

13:11:28 nubbins`: by hand?

13:11:33 asciilifeform: presumably

13:11:38 asciilifeform: they did it, not me

13:11:39 nubbins`: steady as she goes!

13:11:41 nubbins`: ah

13:11:49 asciilifeform: probably with 'hot tweezer'

13:11:54 asciilifeform: (tool used for such occasions)

13:12:22 Adlai: this seems like a fairly ideal domain for another one of those robotics startups

13:12:36 asciilifeform: Adlai: what is

13:12:58 Adlai: testing individual components to confirm that they meet spec, soldering them onto the pcb

13:13:18 nubbins`: speaking of soldering tools, anyone ever used one of those "cold heat" (resistance based) soldering tools?

13:13:21 asciilifeform: Adlai: actually, pick'n'place machines build in the '80s did this as routine matter

13:13:34 asciilifeform: nubbins`: aha

13:13:40 asciilifeform: nubbins`: pretty worthless, imho

13:13:46 nubbins`: suspected as much

13:13:55 *: Adlai prefers the smell of lead in the head

13:13:55 asciilifeform: nubbins`: but -looks- impressive, yes

13:13:55 *: nubbins` is clumsy

13:14:04 asciilifeform: sorta like a spot welder

13:14:07 nubbins`: nod

13:14:24 nubbins`: good luck tinning the tip of it ;p

13:14:43 asciilifeform: (for those innocent of the thing - it was simply a box with battery, and tipped with a small carboniferous fork. stick the fork on solder ball, it melts...)

13:14:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34850 @ 0.00021903 = 7.6332 BTC [-] {3}

13:15:05 Adlai: one of my first ever mind=blown moments was seeing a solder removal wick

13:15:40 asciilifeform: Adlai: anyway, what i was saying was that it was once not uncommon for components to be measured before placement. but guess what, in modern world this is 'unnecessary' we're told.

13:15:53 nubbins`: Adlai heh

13:16:00 asciilifeform: solder wick << aha, it behaves just like any other liquid.

13:16:10 nubbins`: was your second moment putting a wilted celery stalk in a glass of water? :D

13:16:45 danielpbarron: height=295140 vs height=215904

13:16:52 nubbins`: today i learned that the cost of a variable dc power supply is much less than i'd imagined

13:16:58 nubbins`: me rummages for credit card

13:17:05 nubbins`: ^ + /

13:17:19 asciilifeform: nubbins`: mine was fiddybux or so

13:17:30 nubbins`: nod, clean used ones on ebay for about the same

13:17:36 asciilifeform: (appears in one of the photos linked earlier, displaying supply voltage and current consumption of rng)

13:17:41 asciilifeform: yeah it was used

13:17:56 danielpbarron: !up Bagels7

13:17:59 nubbins`: been wanting one ever since EE labs in uni

13:18:00 asciilifeform: had to be resoldered for american mains (move to center tap of transformer) as it was brit-made

13:18:04 nubbins`: somehow never bothered to even /price/ them

13:18:20 asciilifeform: it is very difficult to do anything seriously electronic without one

13:19:08 asciilifeform: avoid the chinese ones, they not only have fans (yes) but plenty of ripple in the dc

13:19:38 asciilifeform: (at any rate, if buying chinese, do it somewhere you can return if necessary and measure the ripple)

13:19:49 nubbins`: i generally avoid chinese-made anything

13:20:17 nubbins`: phun phact, you can get a flash dryer for curing plastisol inks for $800 (american-made) or $300 (chinese-made)

13:21:11 nubbins`: the $800 one has a massive network of tiny coils to evenly heat the shirt

13:21:36 asciilifeform: what size/shape is the heat bed ?

13:21:38 nubbins`: the $300 one has... a domestic oven element. http://imgur.com/KJqDivg

13:21:39 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcJvX9 )

13:21:52 nubbins`: various sizes, ours is 16x16". pizza box profile

13:22:06 nubbins`: the really nice ones ($3k+) use quartz tubes

13:22:18 asciilifeform: nubbins`: you know, the oven heater would work fine if you had a thermal buffer (think 'pizza stone') between it and the payload

13:22:28 asciilifeform: it is how i reflow boards on a hob

13:22:28 nubbins`: that's what the mesh screen is attempting/failing to do

13:22:36 asciilifeform: the mesh screen is not a buffer !

13:22:42 nubbins`: nope. :D

13:22:42 asciilifeform: no thermal mass to speak of, in it

13:22:53 nubbins`: but there nonetheless, to give the appearance

13:22:54 asciilifeform: just pointing out that it isn't even trying

13:23:07 asciilifeform: whereas the 'network of tiny coils' is likewise unnecessary

13:23:29 nubbins`: http://images.dharmatrading.com/images/eng/products/image/flash18-1-090218113336.jpg

13:23:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcK9UC )

13:23:33 asciilifeform: scylla and charybdis of chinesecrud and americangoldentoilet !

13:23:34 nubbins`: ^ chinese unit from afar

13:24:07 nubbins`: thermal buffer = massively long heat-up times, additional weight

13:25:05 nubbins`: now here's a funny thing: supposing that flash was made not-in-china. now it's $800. to add a dwell timer, a servo motor, and a foot pedal: extra $800.

13:25:58 asciilifeform: the 'correct' solution is probably ir lamp.

13:25:59 nubbins`: http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/files/799934/uploaded/FLASHAMATIC.jpg

13:26:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpOgf6 )

13:26:03 asciilifeform: fast heat, fast cool

13:26:09 asciilifeform: and 100% even

13:26:10 nubbins`: nod. i have a link here.

13:26:19 nubbins`: competition uses IR flash

13:26:56 nubbins`: http://img35.olx.ua/images_slandocomua/181436811_1_644x461_ik-lampy-r7s-sushka-red-chili-mr-belaya-tserkov.jpg

13:26:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpOvXy )

13:27:17 nubbins`: http://www.mrprint.com/images/news/red_chili_1418web.jpg

13:27:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpOAKO )

13:27:26 nubbins`: with optional proximity sensor!

13:27:35 nubbins`: in a perfect world i'd buy one of those

13:28:22 nubbins`: proximity sensor = turn off brain when printing

13:28:36 nubbins`: no sensor/no pedal: 10-second timer running in your head at all times

13:28:54 asciilifeform: in other news, lee kuan yew is dead

13:28:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00022344 = 5.6083 BTC [+]

13:29:32 nubbins`: underside of our flash: http://www.digitsmith.com/attachments/18238d1340119986-black-body-flash-cure-panel-bottom1small.jpg

13:29:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcLZ7R )

13:29:50 asciilifeform: greatest wisdom of this ruler was, iirc, 'when you come to power, begin by putting three of your closest friends in jail. you already know -what for-, and they also know -what for.-'

13:30:04 nubbins`: ha

13:30:08 nubbins`: wisdom indeed

13:30:12 asciilifeform: srsly

13:30:28 nubbins`: incidentally, the conveyor oven used for final cure has these same black-body panels inside

13:31:17 *: nubbins` had to play electrician for a day when all this equipment showed up

13:31:43 *: nubbins` will have to play electrician again in a month's time when we upgrade to 240v flash unit

13:33:09 asciilifeform: in other news,

13:33:09 nubbins`: nerding out on equipment is phun

13:33:19 asciilifeform: 'They are looking for the people who are in this room right now: you will be the target. Not because you are a terrorist, not because you are suspected of any criminal wrongdoing, but because you have access to systems, you have access to infrastructure, you have access to the private records, people's private lives. These are the things that they want.'

13:33:36 asciilifeform: (mr s, naturally, http://www.zdnet.com/article/snowden-it-workers-are-now-the-target-of-spies )

13:33:38 assbot: Snowden: IT workers are now the target of spies | ZDNet ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcN27J )

13:33:38 nubbins`: my face when i found unfiltered blacklight bulbs that peak at the *exact* wavelength my emulsion is most sensitive to

13:41:08 asciilifeform: 'No wonder foreign husbands often complain about Japanese women suddenly transforming from sweet and cute girlfriends into shufu ? professional housewives emotionally and physically distant from their husbands and fully devoted to their children and home.' << dependopotamus (TM) !

13:44:31 nubbins`: :D

13:45:18 nubbins`: put another way: those who are unable to judge the character/nature of others are more likely to wish for escape, and their disability follows them to their new life, where they make the same sort of mistakes they'd make at home

13:45:41 nubbins`: "nobody understands me at home"

13:45:58 nubbins`: no, you don't understand anybody, period. moving to jp will not fix this.

13:46:10 nubbins`: if anything, exacerbate

13:47:19 nubbins`: oh hey

13:47:20 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/young-girl-struck-by-school-bus-in-mary-queen-of-the-world-parking-lot-1.3006801

13:47:22 assbot: Young girl struck by school bus in Mary Queen of the World parking lot - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcRbZq )

13:47:22 nubbins`: my alma mater

13:47:49 nubbins`: phun phact, when i was five years old, i missed getting run over by a taxi in this same parking lot by about 6 inches

13:48:21 nubbins`: that was when i learned you don't run on parking lots when they're covered in gravel

13:49:32 asciilifeform: 'no, you don't understand anybody, period. moving to jp will not fix this' << what kind of folks are you thinking of ?

13:49:39 asciilifeform: (who 'don't understand anybody')

13:49:56 nubbins`: i'm thinking of roughly half the foreigners i met while teaching overseas

13:50:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38250 @ 0.00021607 = 8.2647 BTC [-] {2}

13:50:58 nubbins`: there's about a 50/50 split between "young people who want to see the world, travel, pay off debt" and "weirdos escaping to start over"

13:52:04 nubbins`: it's much, much easier to cover up idiosyncrasies if there's a language and culture barrier in the way

13:52:53 nubbins`: update re: sealskin: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/i-m-shocked-corner-brook-woman-fined-250-for-sealskin-purse-1.3006358

13:52:54 assbot: 'I'm shocked': Corner Brook woman fined $250 for sealskin purse - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcSQ18 )

13:53:06 nubbins`: "My major concern at the time, because I travel to the states every now and then, is there going to be a red flag when they scan my passport? Is something going to show that I'm bringing in endangered whatever?" <<< yes, with 100% certainty.

13:53:52 *: nubbins` gets the VIP treatment every time due to an incident involving some undeclared goods

13:54:37 nubbins`: "She doesn't expect to ever see her bag again, but has received multiple offers from people who want to replace her purse." WHAT

13:55:02 nubbins`: this woman has enough disposable income that NOT ONLY does she own a sealskin fucking purse, but she regularly travels internationally to SHOP

13:55:08 nubbins`: and people are offering to buy her a new purse.

13:55:13 nubbins`: because newfy.

13:56:10 asciilifeform: reminds me of how when clinton was half-heartedly prosecuting microshit for antitrust violations, some 'think tank' (cato? i forget) had a 'microsoft defense fund' that the public was invited to contribute to !

13:57:27 asciilifeform: or how a firm i once worked for, that shall remain nameless, invited the public to contribute spare change to one of its (congressionally-funded!) wunderwaffen projects that will 'help save our boys in iraq'

13:57:49 asciilifeform: (last i checked, a few yrs ago, the donation button was still there!)

13:58:40 nubbins`: the gall, hey?

13:58:43 asciilifeform: and the obligatory orwell observation,

13:58:45 asciilifeform: 'Until recently the characteristic adventure stories of the English-speaking peoples have been stories in which the hero fights against odds. This is true all the way from Robin Hood to Pop-eye the Sailor. Perhaps the basic myth of the Western world is Jack the Giant-killer, but to be brought up to date this should be renamed Jack the Dwarf-killer, and there already exists a considerable literature which teaches, either overtl

13:58:45 asciilifeform: y or implicitly, that one should side with the big man against the little man. Most of what is now written about foreign policy is simply an embroidery on this theme...'

14:01:01 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-c-51-hearings-first-nations-activists-toronto-police-to-testify-1.3006731

14:01:02 assbot: Bill C-51 hearings: First Nations activists, Toronto police to testify - Politics - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPCSIn )

14:01:17 nubbins`: first nations activists are generally pretty hardass

14:01:45 nubbins`: the protest crowd could learn some lessons from em

14:02:24 nubbins`: altho TBF "get the fuck off our land" doesn't work if you're a kid in downtown montreal

14:06:20 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/the-astounding-rise-of-china-s-currency-don-pittis-1.3005562

14:06:22 assbot: The astounding rise of China's currency: Don Pittis - Business - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GcX7lg )

14:09:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.00022192 = 7.9891 BTC [+] {2}

14:09:47 asciilifeform: nubbins`: it is being felt. i distinctly recall watching some trashy american adventure film a year or two ago, involving time travel to the future, and the hero had a treasure chest under his floorboards with thick stacks of yuan

14:10:10 nubbins`: i sorta feel like getting on the yuan train

14:10:35 asciilifeform: nubbins`: problem is, that train doesn't go anywhere you would want to be.

14:10:40 nubbins`: shit, there was a Crichton book (sphere?) where the future coca-cola cans were all in chinese

14:11:20 nubbins`: asciilifeform what's my other choice, CAD? :D

14:11:47 asciilifeform: nubbins`: unlike, apparently, most other beggars, i won't give investment advice.

14:11:57 nubbins`: mark of a wise man

14:11:58 asciilifeform: it isn't a problem that i have

14:12:05 asciilifeform: and hence i cannot suggest solutions to it

14:12:34 asciilifeform: having no experience or opportunity to practice whatsoever.

14:13:43 asciilifeform: (i don't knowingly participate in chumpatrons and hence haven't and won't be buying fiat stocks at 10-20bux/trade)

14:14:07 nubbins`: nod

14:15:18 nubbins`: i'm not saying i'll remortgage the house or anything

14:15:42 nubbins`: but it'd be fun to add a few k's worth of yuan to the basket

14:16:14 asciilifeform: if can afford to lose in the casino - why not

14:18:43 nubbins`: a small amount of "can afford to lose, why not try btc" in 2012 provides the opportunity for "can afford to lose, why not try ___" in 2015

14:19:22 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/francis-boucher-son-of-hells-angels-leader-accidentally-released-from-jail-1.3006335

14:19:23 assbot: Francis Boucher, son of Hells Angels leader, accidentally released from jail - Montreal - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gd1Ov6 )

14:19:27 nubbins`: hahahaha. "accidentally".

14:20:35 asciilifeform: nubbins`: i am waiting to hear of afghanistan-style jailbreaks in usa

14:20:55 asciilifeform: the kind involving armoured trucks, rockets, demolition charges

14:20:59 nubbins`: i.e. "hundreds escape"?

14:21:01 asciilifeform: aha

14:21:23 asciilifeform: and one or two are removed by the 'rescuers' for proper (i.e. heads-off) justice

14:21:43 nubbins`: restorative justice, this 8)

14:21:53 nubbins`: i.e. let's restore your meat to its natural state

14:22:41 asciilifeform: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/03/24/world/crime-legal-world/police-unable-confirm-gang-rape-university-virginia/#.VRFybHW9_ft << this was brought up in an older thread iirc

14:22:43 assbot: Police unable to confirm gang rape at University of Virginia | The Japan Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPHIVV )

14:22:57 asciilifeform: rounds off with some lulz,

14:22:59 asciilifeform: 'Longo said the case is suspended, not closed. He said the fact that investigators could not find evidence ?doesn?t mean that something terrible didn?t happen to Jackie.?'

14:25:46 nubbins`: ...which is generally true, but probably not in this case.

14:25:53 nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/ksBVtHB.png

14:25:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPIthT )

14:26:01 nubbins`: note how the emphasis is on the feels ^

14:26:19 nubbins`: not be as valuable as you could be

14:26:21 nubbins`: just feel it

14:26:28 asciilifeform: iirc the case in that article ended with police finding no one on the planet remotely matching the description of the perpetrator

14:26:35 nubbins`: yeah

14:26:42 nubbins`: name, description...

14:27:12 nubbins`: "turns out the complainant didn't even have any orifices"

14:27:20 nubbins`: what was it, rolling stone or smth that broke the story?

14:27:47 asciilifeform: the former i think

14:28:16 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/iraq-mission-stephen-harper-recommits-to-coalition-against-isis-1.3006469

14:28:17 assbot: Iraq mission: Stephen Harper recommits to coalition against ISIS - Politics - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gd4gSy )

14:29:02 nubbins`: if there's one thing that will stabilise the region, it's a year of bombings

14:29:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00021826 = 1.8116 BTC [-]

14:30:35 asciilifeform: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/communication-security-establishment-s-cyberwarfare-toolbox-revealed-1.3002978 << l0l, canadian snowden heap

14:30:37 assbot: Communication Security Establishment's cyberwarfare toolbox revealed - Canada - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPJwyl )

14:31:22 nubbins`: pretty light on content, that article

14:31:43 nubbins`: slideshow on bottom ("CSE's toolbox") is 100% generalities

14:32:14 asciilifeform: mega-snore

14:32:36 nubbins`: "toolbox" = general trade practices

14:32:37 asciilifeform: reads like disinfo

14:33:28 asciilifeform: in the sense that if you kidnapped a generic american undergrad, chained him in a cellar, and didn't let him out until he reads the snowden dumps and craps out a deck of 'plausible' canadian slides, the result is likely to be something like the above.

14:34:24 asciilifeform: then again, these people have long ago crossed the parody horizon.

14:34:33 nubbins`: ^

14:34:36 asciilifeform: at least the ones from whom there are leaks.

14:34:45 asciilifeform: there has yet to be ONE SINGLE cryptologist leak.

14:35:06 asciilifeform: from anywhere in the usg empire.

14:35:32 mats: they know better.

14:35:39 nubbins`: guess they really do screen candidates for some fields, hey?

14:36:01 nubbins`: or, put another way, what mats said

14:36:08 asciilifeform: picture you're taking a hill

14:36:14 asciilifeform: there is a machine gun nest on the hill

14:36:17 asciilifeform: the gun is silent.

14:36:22 asciilifeform: is it because gunner is dead?

14:36:28 asciilifeform: or is he waiting for you to come closer?

14:38:25 mats: living a life of secrecy is hard as it is

14:38:27 asciilifeform: now, afaik all available evidence suggests that american cryptological establishment is occupied mainly with crafting monstrosities like dual_ec_drbg - rather than actually breaking 'real' crypto

14:38:38 asciilifeform: but the available evidence is very, very thin.

14:39:10 nubbins`: i think they'd be remiss if they weren't working on both.

14:39:28 asciilifeform: !s rsa pill

14:39:29 assbot: 6 results for 'rsa pill' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rsa+pill

14:39:37 asciilifeform: ^ pointing n00bs to logs

14:40:23 mats: i'm not convinced dual_ec_drbg is rigged

14:40:47 asciilifeform: mats: see the old thread re: malice and incompetence

14:41:00 asciilifeform: mats: next we know, you'll suggest that hearbleed was a traditional bug ?

14:41:01 mats: for the record, there is still absolutely zero solid evidence that Dual_EC_DRBG is backdoored. the Snowden leaks never mention it by name, never talk about backdooring a CSPRNG, and indeed never talk about backdooring anything. the extent of what they mention is that NSA wanted to 'influence standards'

14:41:13 asciilifeform: mats: nope

14:41:39 asciilifeform: mats: several of the documents (in particular, one classification-level guide) mention subversion of commercial products specifically.

14:41:46 nubbins`: "Protects exploitation of specific communications associated with ... money laundering ... and targets of interest"

14:41:46 mats: ive personally confirmed with schneier - in person - and have second-hand confirmations by others who have interacted with recipients of leaks

14:41:51 nubbins`: codeword STRESSFUL

14:41:53 asciilifeform: (-which products- was redacted by the greenwald gang)

14:42:11 asciilifeform: mats: the word of schneier is worth less than zero here.

14:42:31 nubbins`: didn't schneier advocate windows as an acceptable PGP machine?

14:42:37 asciilifeform: he is a known stooge

14:42:38 mats: the 2006 analysis and subsequent cryptanalytic work stand on their own when it comes to making the case for suspicion of a backdoor, but lets stay within the realm of reason here

14:42:40 nubbins`: as long as you installed all yr updates?!?!

14:43:23 asciilifeform: mats: let me rephrase. i advocate that it is -wrong- to treat any case like dual_ec as anything other than sabotage

14:43:24 nubbins`: mats it's worth mentioning that most of what snowden revealed was not considered "within the realm of reason" by many, before the fact

14:43:33 asciilifeform: because 'i accidentally the bug' can never be proven

14:43:49 nubbins`: ^

14:45:17 asciilifeform: obligatory: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846621 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846620

14:45:17 assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...'

14:45:17 assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 02:35:49; asciilifeform: if you create a 'heartbleed' - you are a вредитель. and whether you did it intentionally, given the impossibility of proof - does not matter.

14:45:38 nubbins`: PIEDMONT: "Provides protection to NSA's bottom line capabilities to exploit SIGINT targets by attacking the hard mathematical problems underlying public key cryptography as well as any future technologies as may be developed"

14:46:03 mats: i hate discussing these things with you people

14:46:06 asciilifeform: nubbins`: that plus another directorate name is pretty much all we publicly have on the 'directorate of breaking pgp'

14:46:22 nubbins`: PAWLEYS, PENDLETON

14:46:22 asciilifeform: mats: very curious now - why ?

14:46:25 mats: its always bogeymen, can't have serious discussion

14:46:33 asciilifeform: mats: a serious discussion would involve what?

14:46:37 nubbins`: OPALESCE sounds like keyboard rf sniffing

14:46:38 asciilifeform: the mathematics, disembodied ?

14:46:43 asciilifeform: i am quite able to discuss the mathematics

14:46:52 asciilifeform: but it did not come from god - it came from people

14:46:56 asciilifeform: who want their faces to stay hidden

14:47:01 asciilifeform: one -must- ask - why

14:47:11 nubbins`: mats i understand your viewpoint but plz to understand that paranoia has proved to be justified time and again

14:47:29 nubbins`: while one may feel silly taking the paranoid stance as the default.... we're just evaluating the evidence as presented

14:47:41 asciilifeform: nearly everything i and fellow paranoiac crackpots have ever spoken about crypto has proven to be abundantly justified.

14:47:46 nubbins`: ^

14:47:57 asciilifeform: justification coming out of our ears, arses

14:48:05 asciilifeform: enough for anyone, i'd think, at this point

14:48:33 nubbins`: i think the overwhelming amount of justification triggers a "this CAN'T be true" response in a lot of people

14:49:07 asciilifeform: once you amputate your vestigial 'this can't be true' organ, you are left with only your understanding of the physical world to go on

14:49:28 asciilifeform: unfortunately, for most of the folks who do this, it ends in a belief in unidentified flying proctologists

14:49:38 nubbins`: heh.

14:49:53 nubbins`: the gasenwagen, it can't be true.

14:49:58 asciilifeform: but if you have the upbringing of a thinking (that is, polymathic) person - you can get somewhere.

14:50:55 nubbins`: the usa invading a foreign country on 100% false pretenses, it can't be true

14:51:20 mats: look, i'm putting my skepticism on the record. if there was evidence, it'd look like 'Tor Stinks' or the slides from Der Spiegel's work on the Belgacom pwnage. i'm not saying that Dual_EC_DRBG doesn't have obvious flaws or that anyone should continue using it, but my skepticism regarding it being an intentional backdoor remains

14:51:24 nubbins`: all american internet traffic flowing through an NSA closet in an at&t building -- it can't be true

14:51:37 asciilifeform: mats: at the risk of repeating myself, i will phrase my position as a kind of maxim: 'it is necessary to behave as if hearbleed and dual_ec were crafted vulns, regardless of any apparent evidence to the contrary'

14:51:47 mats: the whole 'NSA is undermining all crypto standards!' meme is overplayed

14:52:00 asciilifeform: this is a fairly outlandish thing on the surface, and i will justify it with something like 'pascal's wager'

14:52:04 nubbins`: 1% chance of it being an intentional backdoor is 1000x the proof you need to not use it

14:53:19 asciilifeform: thing is, there are not so many good opportunities for crafted vulns, and the usg folks know it. hence they try to cultivate an overall maggoty flavour in software culture at large

14:53:24 asciilifeform: e.g. poettering and his merry men

14:53:32 asciilifeform: in hopes that the maggots will hatch naturally

14:53:38 asciilifeform: this doesn't even require very much support

14:53:52 asciilifeform: just a strategic lack of support for anything which might poison the maggots.

14:54:16 fluffypony: I think it's very hard to tell the difference between mistake and malice.

14:54:21 fluffypony: (in this instance)

14:54:22 nubbins`: fluffypony +1

14:54:26 asciilifeform: so it is not necessary to -believe- that every single bug is deliberately crafted

14:54:32 thestringpuller: is there really a difference?

14:54:33 asciilifeform: but it is necessary to -behave- as if they were

14:54:41 asciilifeform: is this too subtle for people ?

14:54:44 thestringpuller: isn't there that saying, "Road to hell something something good intentions?"

14:54:52 fluffypony: thestringpuller: mistakes don't always stem from incompetence

14:55:21 nubbins`: sometimes it's carelessness!

14:55:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00021826 = 3.9832 BTC [-] {2}

14:55:30 thestringpuller: aka apathy?

14:55:41 fluffypony: http://safecurves.cr.yp.to

14:55:42 assbot: SafeCurves: Introduction ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPPcs0 )

14:55:44 nubbins`: asciilifeform put another way: not everyone has syphilis, but you'd be remiss not to wrap it up when sexing a stranger

14:55:51 fluffypony: DJB believes secp256k1 is broken

14:55:56 asciilifeform: nubbins`: very much the wrong analogy

14:56:13 asciilifeform: because it had nothing to do with probabilities

14:56:20 asciilifeform: the original idea, that is

14:56:23 nubbins`: hm, true

14:56:31 asciilifeform: it has to do with the impossibility of knowing intent

14:56:47 nubbins`: maybe intent is to give you the clap

14:56:57 asciilifeform: all you have to go on, when answering the question 'usg stooge or not' is - 'by their fruits you will know them'

14:57:14 asciilifeform: there is literally nothing else (other than a certain measure of 'guilt by association')

14:57:45 asciilifeform: and aside from stooges and people, there also exist useful idiots

14:57:52 nubbins`: ^

14:58:03 asciilifeform: which is to say, folks who are acting in the interests of usg but do not consciously know it

14:58:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu uses word 'asset' for both, but they are distinct animals

14:58:41 asciilifeform: every intelligence service on the planet has own jargon word for these

15:01:59 asciilifeform: yes, some crypto designers make mistake, they are good people, sure, whatever. i will borrow from slavoj ?i?ek and say then 'we put them to a good wall, shoot them with a good bullet from a good gun, and bury them in with a good shove in the good earth' - since sure, they are good people.

15:02:06 asciilifeform: *shovel

15:02:25 nubbins`: heh

15:02:33 asciilifeform: for the bad people - who deliberately sabotaged algo - bad wall, bad bullet, ..., bad earth

15:02:50 nubbins`: gun was bad so we had to use the bayonets

15:03:08 asciilifeform: bayonets so bad - spoons.

15:03:15 asciilifeform: but overall picture should be clear at this point.

15:03:18 nubbins`: the shovel was bad but wolves are always hungry

15:03:20 fluffypony: wait so we should have no crypto designers?

15:03:30 asciilifeform: fluffypony did not get it

15:03:37 asciilifeform: we presently have many sappers

15:03:42 asciilifeform: how many mistakes does a sapper make ?

15:03:42 nubbins`: the crypto designer errs but once

15:03:49 fluffypony: and then we shoot him

15:03:56 asciilifeform: or at least fire him

15:04:03 *: fluffypony gets his shotgun and his pitchfork

15:04:03 asciilifeform: let him earn a living in some other way

15:04:07 fluffypony: when do we start burning the jews?

15:04:22 asciilifeform: fluffypony: when they all take up diddled crypto ?

15:04:34 fluffypony: ok Monday at 3, then

15:04:35 fluffypony: works for me

15:04:42 fluffypony: :-P

15:04:44 nubbins`: that's six days from now!

15:04:51 asciilifeform: see, everybody's got these mental patterns, in the ru thinking sphere it is called 'tolerasty'

15:04:57 fluffypony: on on the seventh day we'll rest, nubbins`

15:05:03 nubbins`: ok

15:05:13 asciilifeform: one has to work against one's upbringing, typically, to arrive at the message i was trying to pass here.

15:05:28 nubbins`: ;;ud tolerasty

15:05:28 asciilifeform: that from -tolerasty- comes poettering & crew.

15:05:29 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tolerast | Aug 6, 2012 ... tolerast. a mix of `tolerant` and `pederast`, hyper tolerant person, who will sacrifice all of his beliefs just to avoid being thought of as `intollerant`.

15:05:35 *: nubbins` cackles, claps

15:05:38 asciilifeform: ^ l0l! in englisch at last

15:06:52 nubbins`: example from link: "When a black guy works at Starbucks and one hesitates to ask him for `black coffee"

15:06:55 mats: fun fact: the tor browser bundle uses the Windows heap instead of jemalloc

15:07:03 nubbins`: poor example

15:07:06 asciilifeform: mats: mega-l0l!

15:07:10 asciilifeform: mats: i did not know this.

15:07:20 nubbins`: (calling a black coffee a coffee without anything in it is sacrificing your beliefs?)

15:07:26 mats: it makes heap grooming more reliably supposedly

15:07:36 asciilifeform: aaaaha sure.

15:07:37 mats: but, you know, bugs

15:07:46 nubbins`: under your skin; everywhere

15:08:04 nubbins`: let me find a relevant quote from a recent communique i received

15:08:57 nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/89espBZ1

15:08:58 assbot: DONT WORRY MASSIVE EDIT Sat across from a serious man. He’s sunken himself - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPSmvQ )

15:09:19 asciilifeform: mats: let's put another example. if you are found holding a smoking pistol, with $famouspolitican in a bloody heap on the floor where he was not long ago giving a speech - do you suppose the judge would believe that you drew the pistol and pulled the trigger by accident, while reaching for another object in your pocket ?

15:09:21 asciilifeform: if not, why not?

15:09:36 asciilifeform: note the folks routinely shoot themselves and one another in not altogether dissimilar way

15:10:02 asciilifeform: in some situations, 'benefit of doubt' is not - cannot - be given.

15:12:11 mats: there is actual evidence of malfeasance by NSA on other counts, documented and sometimes committed to powerpoint glory

15:12:20 asciilifeform: nubbins`: reads like burroughs

15:12:50 mats: but i don't see that this is the case here.

15:13:01 nubbins`: burroughs no doubt had some similar shit going on upstairs

15:13:17 nubbins`: i have reams of this material

15:13:33 asciilifeform: mats: if you have philosophical objections to 'behave as if X even if possibly ~X is true' then try to come up with some other syllogism. but it -must- end in 'the people who gave us heartbleed and dual_ec DO NOT GET TO MAKE CRYPTO ANY MORE'

15:13:34 mats: show me the motherfucking evidence! you mean to tell me these bureaucrats decided not to commit anything to paper this go-around?

15:13:45 mats: but did, all those other times?

15:13:50 asciilifeform: the bloody corpse is the evidence

15:13:54 asciilifeform: all the necessary evidence.

15:14:10 asciilifeform: if the paperwork is missing - it isn't like we have all the usg archives on display!

15:14:21 asciilifeform: hell, we don't even have 1% of the kgb archive.

15:15:03 asciilifeform: when ever man and woman who ever worked at nsa dies under torture and doesn't say anything about dual_ec - then i might believe 'mistake'

15:15:06 asciilifeform: but not before.

15:15:36 asciilifeform: and then i will question the loyalty and competence of the torturer.

15:15:45 asciilifeform: because how else.

15:16:03 nubbins`: ("he wanted it done quick, not right")

15:16:35 mats: i guess you'll have to torture the interrogator.

15:16:47 asciilifeform: 'headsman, behead youself' aha

15:17:56 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/rhqsdb4

15:17:56 assbot: This snake's defense mechanism is to become a treble clef - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPUzYa )

15:17:56 asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, i was not arguing that 'the evidence exists somewhere damnit' (though i belive it)

15:17:57 nubbins`: lelelelel

15:18:07 nubbins`: "dude, just chill out, remember how much you like music?"

15:18:11 asciilifeform: but that 'the evidence cannot be had and we must operate without it'

15:18:18 asciilifeform: best as we can.

15:18:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00021425 = 5.442 BTC [-]

15:19:28 asciilifeform: and that whatever else we conclude, the fella who wrote hearbleed doesn't get to say 'oops. i promise i won't do it again. now let me write some more critical code'

15:21:14 nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/6OsxazV.jpg

15:21:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPVhVj )

15:21:26 nubbins`: ^ packaged w/ mycelium entropy thingy

15:22:58 nubbins`: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/304rt1/anyone_else_getting_tired_of_this_bullshit/

15:23:00 assbot: Anyone else getting tired of this bullshit blatant downward price manipulation? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1GPVHLD )

15:23:13 nubbins`: "anyone else getting tiredof having no control over our surroundings, or the world at large?"

15:23:16 mike_c: ;;ticker

15:23:17 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.02, Best ask: 246.2, Bid-ask spread: 0.18000, Last trade: 246.01, 24 hour volume: 55703.96526026, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 268.99, 24 hour vwap: None

15:23:21 nubbins`: yes, reddit commentor. many others.

15:23:46 mike_c: i blame whaleclub

15:24:09 nubbins`: i blame the guy's teachers and parents

15:24:13 fluffypony: do you speak whaaaaale?

15:24:23 *: nubbins` burns another 10btc for show

15:25:32 nubbins`: too bad you can't light cigars with these things

15:26:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9255 @ 0.00021425 = 1.9829 BTC [-]

15:31:06 chetty: <nubbins`> "anyone else getting tiredof having no control over our surroundings, or the world at large?"// no one ever controls the world at large :P get used to it

15:34:39 nubbins`: but we're tiiiiiiiiiired

15:34:58 nubbins`: of our inherent powerlessness

15:35:34 nubbins`: this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university

15:37:35 ben_vulpes: hear hear

15:38:56 nubbins`: block=184374

15:39:12 nubbins`: this'll be what, about a week?

15:39:25 ben_vulpes: 'tis a miserable march.

15:39:39 ben_vulpes: i've lost track of how many times i've done it.

15:39:41 nubbins`: for the good of the republic

15:39:42 ben_vulpes: aws, however, haas not.

15:39:45 nubbins`: heh

15:39:57 ben_vulpes: blocks for the block god

15:44:33 chetty: <nubbins`> this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university// it is what a uni should be

15:50:52 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-03-2015#1061123https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Chimerical-color-demo.svg

15:50:52 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:29:17; jurov: lol you insist on psychedelic and whatnot. i'm about normal brain function

15:50:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ14du )

15:51:24 Adlai: from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color

15:51:25 assbot: Impossible color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ15OM )

15:51:47 jurov: so?

15:52:10 thestringpuller: chetty: what university did you go to?!? lol

15:52:42 Adlai: so nothing, just sharing an effect i wasn't familiar with before

15:56:47 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-03-2015#1067856 << so when do we get op_ed25519verify

15:56:47 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:55:51; fluffypony: DJB believes secp256k1 is broken

15:58:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.00020476 = 3.2045 BTC [-]

16:00:25 nubbins`: some of you may find this interesting, i found some pics from when i rebuilt my coffee roaster: http://imgur.com/WrXz3WY,CbtEo0O,uojejnr,A8KKjzG,yTGzvNA,Te8ddW5

16:00:27 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ2FA9 )

16:01:20 fluffypony: lol Adlai

16:03:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00019938 = 3.4293 BTC [-] {2}

16:04:55 nubbins`: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_color#/media/File:Impossible_Colors,_Blue_and_Yellow,_for_3dTV.png

16:04:57 assbot: Impossible color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ3EQY )

16:05:00 asciilifeform: oh and mats, forgot to ask: why have you forgotten about the massive (iirc, 10-20 mil) usg bribe to rsa?

16:05:00 nubbins`: ^ adlai see you next week ;/

16:05:10 asciilifeform: mats: and what do you suppose it was for, if not dual_ec ?

16:05:39 *: jurov is doing shit with lowlevel dbus interface.. and very first sample caused the introspection to timeout, how else

16:05:49 Adlai: nubbins`: my eyes aren't that far apart

16:05:54 asciilifeform: nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/6OsxazV.jpg << the bozo actually pasted that into #b-a if you recall

16:05:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ3TeM )

16:05:58 nubbins`: gotta cross em duod

16:06:14 nubbins`: in fact, i do not!

16:06:14 asciilifeform: nubbins`: when i told him about sram behaviour below 0c

16:06:22 Adlai: much less stressful to shrink the image and uncross

16:06:26 asciilifeform: !s entropic

16:06:27 assbot: 19 results for 'entropic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=entropic

16:06:42 nubbins`: rassah?

16:07:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2014#757004

16:07:00 assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 20:23:09; Rassah: In our tests, it still had plenty of entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)

16:07:03 asciilifeform: ^ see thread

16:07:04 Adlai: ahah '"Reddish green" redirects here. Reddish Green is also a place in Reddish, Stockport, in Greater Manchester in England.'

16:07:23 nubbins`: :D

16:07:32 nubbins`: dat #b-a fingerprint on device

16:07:56 nubbins`: Reddish Green!

16:08:25 asciilifeform: not that any rng will function especially well in the arctic, but that fella's insistence on baking a known-bad design was memorable.

16:08:42 nubbins`: nevermind the arctic

16:08:56 nubbins`: i'm at the 49th parallel, and i wouldn't be able to use one of these things outdoors in the winter.

16:11:40 mats: RSA upheld their end by backdooring the BSafe product

16:11:52 asciilifeform: i'll emphasize that it isn't a 'won't work in the cold' so much as 'entropy relying on sram effects degrades ungracefully'

16:12:07 asciilifeform: mats: we know this how

16:12:10 mats: that this happened at the same time as the push towards DUAL_EC as default looks incidental, not malicious

16:12:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22527 @ 0.00019753 = 4.4498 BTC [-] {2}

16:12:53 asciilifeform: mats: and you concluded this based on what? the perpetrators' word ?

16:13:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14052 @ 0.00019609 = 2.7555 BTC [-]

16:14:32 mats: same premise as before! no proof.

16:16:15 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w2UxDdhZPk&feature=youtu.be

16:16:16 assbot: Fritz Learns to Catch Compilation #1 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ5GAD )

16:16:16 nubbins`: my sides

16:17:23 nubbins`: man, if my goddamn roommate leaves the front door unlatched one more time, he's gonna find his possessions in the street

16:17:43 nubbins`: i've asked him SEVEN FUCKING TIMES

16:17:55 nubbins`: "just check it. it only takes a second."

16:18:11 nubbins`: not sure how else to phrase it

16:20:41 jurov: get your own room?

16:20:48 mats: what i'm saying is that, as the evidence stands, i'm unable to take a firmer position on Dual_EC than the previously accepted consensus that the weakness being a backdoor is quite unlikely, and that Dual_EC should be shunned only because of the abundance of caution with regard to any issues that is endemic to the crypto field

16:21:12 mats: by being excessively paranoid, you deprive yourself of a lot of useful engineering

16:22:37 mats: the claim i'm most concerned about is that the weakness was engineered by NSA, and that, by having approved it, NIST was complicit, thus casting doubt on all other NIST standards

16:23:02 mats: (not necessarily a claim made here -- but nonetheless)

16:23:06 jurov: what's the difference wrt NSA?

16:23:09 nubbins`: jurov i already phrased it that way :D

16:23:14 nubbins`: just running down the clock now

16:23:47 nubbins`: (just so we're clear, roommate in north america = "flatmate" in uk. we do not share rooms)

16:24:33 nubbins`: mats NIST was either complicit or oblivious. both share the same implications.

16:24:57 nubbins`: i.e. that all other NIST standards are cast under shadow

16:25:28 nubbins`: consider that "NIST approved it without knowing that it was backdoored" is probably the least desirable of the two

16:27:17 mats: this kind of innuendo with an utter lack of specifics divides reasonable people into two camps (maximally-paranoid, NIST is evil too, avoid all crypto standards vs. minimally-paranoid, no evidence for anything so we do nothing)

16:27:38 mats: leaving us with no real basis for actually figuring out the situation.

16:28:47 mats: and re: BSafe, i'm not convinced RSA could be sold on destroying their reputation for packing peanuts.

16:28:50 nubbins`: you're implying we can figure out the situation

16:29:13 nubbins`: and i'm saying that whether NIST is complicit or incompetent doesn't matter

16:29:13 mike_c: what? i thought it was common knowledge rsa sold their soul.

16:29:17 ben_vulpes: see malice and incompetence.

16:30:14 mats: well shit. i guess we're all back to handcrafting our own crypto then huh.

16:30:30 thestringpuller: https://slack.com/ << people keep trying to reinvent IRC

16:31:10 mike_c: mats: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/us-usa-security-rsa-idUSBRE9BJ1C220131220

16:31:11 assbot: Exclusive: Secret contract tied NSA and security industry pioneer | Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8uh3 )

16:31:35 mike_c: "RSA received $10 million in a deal that set the NSA formula as the preferred, or default, method for number generation in the BSafe software"

16:34:01 pete_dushenski: triplescoop : http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/23/want-to-drive-for-uber-first-you-need-to-make-some-mistakes/ http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/24/the-meta-solution/ http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/24/another-day-another-fissure-in-the-internet-this-time-ebay/

16:34:03 assbot: Want to drive for Uber ? First, you need to make some mistakes. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8Zrl )

16:34:04 assbot: The meta solution ? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8ZHN )

16:34:05 assbot: Another day, another fissure in the Internet. This time : eBay. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQ8ZYh )

16:35:04 nubbins`: <+mats> well shit. i guess we're all back to handcrafting our own crypto then huh. <<< no, that's not what we're saying

16:40:30 pete_dushenski: !gettrust mats

16:40:30 assbot: Trust relationship from user pete_dushenski to user mats: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/pete_dushenski/mats | http://w.b-a.link/user/mats

16:43:43 pete_dushenski: mats seems to be pushing his dual_ec point a bit. i'm... skeptical.

16:46:55 pete_dushenski: nubbins`, re: jamaica << there's a spectrum of behaviours within the 'poor service' realm

16:47:18 nubbins`: nod

16:47:19 pete_dushenski: on one end is disinterest, a la paris or w/e, on the other end is entitlement

16:47:39 nubbins`: why only two ends? it's a triangle

16:47:46 pete_dushenski: you could argue that they both grate on different people in different ways, sure, but for me it's the latter that annoys

16:48:05 nubbins`: what you see as entitlement is a desire to not waste time

16:48:12 pete_dushenski: triangle with 'good service' at the third point ?

16:48:25 nubbins`: no, realistic expectations

16:48:47 pete_dushenski: what fucking 'wasted time' could jamaicans possibly have ?

16:49:02 nubbins`: trying to lick your asshole for a buck?

16:49:13 pete_dushenski: so they want to chill at the bar and smoke some weed instead of making a buck ?

16:49:14 nubbins`: when there's 500 other tourists who will just cough one up?

16:49:38 pete_dushenski: maybe they lick my asshole for a 100 though

16:49:39 nubbins`: dude, people the world over want to chill at the bar and smoke some weed instead of making a buck.

16:50:10 pete_dushenski: maybe they put in a bit more effort, because sure, i have standards, and maybe they get rewarded for it

16:50:13 nubbins`: it's a buck.

16:50:20 nubbins`: that's two maybes

16:50:29 nubbins`: how much of your own time do you waste on maybes?

16:50:49 nubbins`: i'd say 5% of the time, or less, "more effort" results in "reward"

16:51:00 nubbins`: so why bother?

16:51:10 pete_dushenski: non-linear payoffs are a thing

16:51:30 pete_dushenski: if 5% chance yields >20x reward then +ev

16:51:53 nubbins`: you're omitting a variable

16:51:56 nubbins`: the extra time required

16:52:25 pete_dushenski: ok, so 40x payoffs are also a thing

16:52:31 nubbins`: ok, so 1% chance.

16:52:35 nubbins`: let's both make up numbers

16:52:41 pete_dushenski: or maybe it's more quality of time, not quantity i'm looking for

16:52:48 nubbins`: maybe.

16:53:00 nubbins`: consider that if your suggested approach worked, people would do it

16:53:05 nubbins`: but they don't

16:53:07 nubbins`: so.............

16:53:18 pete_dushenski: in fact, my experience was that people gave me TOO MUCH time

16:53:46 pete_dushenski: they'd walk up to me and want to show me this and that, start following me wherever i was going, trying to nudge me here and there

16:54:10 pete_dushenski: they seemed to have an abundance of time but little notion of how to use it effectively (at least on me)

16:54:27 thestringpuller: i'm an expert time waster, and wasting time is an art pete_dushenski

16:54:50 pete_dushenski: jamaicans should have a museum dedicated to this art, i say.

16:55:00 nubbins`: pete_dushenski minimum wage in jamaica is $1.25/hr.

16:55:13 nubbins`: if they get two dollars pestering you for an hour, they're ahead.

16:55:48 nubbins`: ten bucks is a day's work at an honest job

16:56:13 nubbins`: why does it seem irrational that they'd harass tourists for money?

16:56:23 nubbins`: consider how many of them just fork over the $$ to get rid of the guy

16:56:34 pete_dushenski: ok, so now you're saying that it's worth their time to be of service to me... make up your mind

16:57:12 nubbins`: i'm saying it's worth their time to try to get $$ out of tourists, but it's not worth their time to chase dead ends

16:57:15 thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: well it's in art in the sense of the Oracle from the Matrix. Once you realize there is a lot of "waiting" for events to occur, then it's best to spend the meanwhile in enjoyment.

16:57:16 pete_dushenski: i don't see that harassment, jostling, or whatever you want to call it is effective

16:57:34 nubbins`: pete_dushenski it's not effective --against you-- but it's *precisely effective* against the average vacationer.

16:57:35 pete_dushenski: if it were, jamaica wouldn't be worse than marakesh

16:57:49 nubbins`: these guys immediately realize that you're not some sucker who's gonna fork over a tenner

16:57:53 nubbins`: so they leave you alone

16:57:59 pete_dushenski: except they don't!

16:58:01 pete_dushenski: that's the thing!

16:58:24 nubbins`: ever?

16:58:24 pete_dushenski: they waste their time on me.

16:58:35 nubbins`: right.

16:58:40 nubbins`: and they do this because....

16:58:43 nubbins`: ....it sometimes works.

16:58:52 nubbins`: sometimes they harass a guy for an hour and get a payday

16:58:58 pete_dushenski: they all want to talk to the white kid with hair like them. i was the most popular thing on the street

16:59:22 nubbins`: pete_dushenski understand that you're a wallet with an afro when you visit resorts

16:59:38 pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: hm. i can see it

16:59:39 nubbins`: all behaviour you observe follows from this

16:59:50 pete_dushenski: what fucking resorts ?

17:00:11 pete_dushenski: these are cities i'm talking about. namely, ocho rios and kingston

17:00:57 pete_dushenski: the point i'm making is that quality is more valuable than quantity

17:01:08 pete_dushenski: (though yes, quantity does have a quality all its own)

17:01:34 pete_dushenski: and i saw a fuckton of quantity and very little, but admittedly non-zero, amounts of quality

17:02:28 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064047 << "the revenue" != "their revenue"

17:02:28 assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 14:04:46; nubbins`: "sourcing their ingredients from within spitting distance, thus keeping the revenue in the local economy" <<< you mean keeping their /expenditures/ in the local economy. their revenue goes elsewhere, unless they're the ones buying all the dimebags.

17:03:28 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1066610 << ha!!

17:03:28 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 01:22:24; gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-03-2015#1055439 << http://imgur.com/SXdFiZx

17:03:56 nubbins`: heh

17:04:54 nubbins`: anyway tl;dr their approach works well enough for them

17:05:12 nubbins`: if you're gonna upbraid them for not trying hard enough, why leave out the rest of the world?

17:05:17 nubbins`: none of us are trying hard enough

17:07:09 pete_dushenski: well, this'd be mp's recently identified economic meta problem

17:07:41 pete_dushenski: to which i humbly proposed, above, immigration of workerbees.

17:07:54 nubbins`: my recently identified pete's-blog-post-about-jamaica meta problem is that you identify entitlement as a problem but fail to realize that you're acting more entitled than these guys are

17:07:57 nubbins`: 8)

17:08:09 pete_dushenski: there are plenty of people on the planet trying to improve their lot in life.

17:08:11 nubbins`: "how dare they not realize i deserve red carpets and back rubs"

17:08:31 nubbins`: "i'm non-black, after all, and i can afford to come here. what more must i do?!"

17:08:56 nubbins`: what more, indeed

17:08:58 nubbins`: brb

17:08:59 pete_dushenski: that alone is a huge difference between me and kid scooping frozen fly guts

17:10:13 pete_dushenski: they're not me and i'm not them, so ya, if we say words that sounds superficially similar, they have different contexts, thus different implications

17:10:17 nubbins`: sure, but doesn't mean automatic handjobs for the guy who doesn't scoop fly guts

17:10:57 pete_dushenski: well that's too bad

17:11:18 pete_dushenski: in that case, why bother doing better than fly guts kid ?

17:11:24 pete_dushenski: if we're all treated the same.

17:11:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20355 @ 0.00020627 = 4.1986 BTC [+]

17:13:32 pete_dushenski: "An Airbus A320 crashed en route to Dusseldorf from Barcelona, likely killing all 150 people on board, in what would be the worst air accident on French soil in three decades. Germanwings Flight 9525 operated by the low-cost subsidiary of Deutsche Lufthansa AG went down in the French Alps following a rapid descent from cruising altitude, France’s civil aviation authority said."

17:14:25 pete_dushenski: i guess cutting costs from air travel has consequences. who knew you can't race to the bottom indefinitely.

17:14:37 pete_dushenski: this is assuming it wasn't hacked, shot down, etc.

17:16:32 nubbins`: <+pete_dushenski> in that case, why bother doing better than fly guts kid ? <<< same reason one might bother to do worse: different tolerance for comforts or lack thereof

17:16:39 nubbins`: low-cost airlines = no fun

17:16:45 nubbins`: dat legroom

17:17:01 pete_dushenski: and the paper thin seat cushions

17:17:23 pete_dushenski: flying oz's jetstar made me appreciate air canada like nothing else

17:18:03 nubbins`: flying air canada made me appreciate westjet like nothing else XD

17:18:11 nubbins`: porter also gets points for free beer

17:18:29 pete_dushenski: haven't flown porter yet.

17:18:41 nubbins`: you ask for a beer and they just give you one, it's great

17:18:47 pete_dushenski: i don't mind westjet, their staff are quite well trained

17:18:55 pete_dushenski: dat customer service ! ;)

17:19:21 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: different tolerance for comforts or lack thereof << i guess jamaicans have a higher tolerance for discomfort than i do

17:19:35 pete_dushenski: perhaps a surprise to no one

17:19:37 nubbins`: almost certainly

17:20:34 pete_dushenski: given the mini-bus trip i took from the north of the island to the south, with 8 rows of people jammed, and i do mean jammed with mothers and children, 5 across

17:20:37 pete_dushenski: with no a/c

17:20:38 nubbins`: part of me feels this speaks to the relative lack of environmental stressors

17:20:52 pete_dushenski: memorable experience. hell, i'd do it again.

17:21:16 nubbins`: i recommend you keep doing it for the forseeable future :D

17:21:36 nubbins`: (but srsly, marrakesh, you would not enjoy)

17:22:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8345 @ 0.00020248 = 1.6897 BTC [-]

17:22:52 pete_dushenski: lol funny you should mention marrakesh, i was actually going to go to morocco instead of jamaica but didn't have the 2-3 weeks needed to make the haul worthwhile

17:23:08 pete_dushenski: mebbe some day

17:23:46 pete_dushenski: i should say, i had the 2-3 weeks, but chose to spread it out over two trips instead of 1

17:24:12 pete_dushenski: next up: home of the chf

17:24:44 pete_dushenski: "One of Britons' favourite places to visit in North Africa has been named the world's top destination by TripAdvisor users. With its desert landscape and bustling souks, Marrakech came out on top in the website's annual Travellers' Choice Awards for the first time."

17:24:49 nubbins`: i went to marrakesh for a week

17:24:53 pete_dushenski: ^the wisdom of the crowds, i guess

17:25:01 nubbins`: turns out, stupid length of trip

17:25:16 pete_dushenski: no fez, no casablanca ?

17:25:21 nubbins`: no time!

17:25:40 pete_dushenski: lol

17:25:44 pete_dushenski: guess not eh

17:26:13 nubbins`: holed up in a hostel somewhere in the maze of souks for the week

17:26:33 nubbins`: saw the countryside a couple days

17:26:57 nubbins`: actually, touts aside, i'd go again for the food

17:27:18 nubbins`: but straight up, there is a club med about 100 meters from the main square, and you can tell

17:28:19 nubbins`: i'm not sure i'll be able to find a photograph that accurately captures what a bizarre juxtaposition this is, in the meantime

17:29:08 pete_dushenski: heh, well if you do, toss it in here

17:29:24 pete_dushenski: howdy Pierre_Rochard !

17:29:34 pete_dushenski: looks like you're coming just as i'm going..

17:29:38 Pierre_Rochard: howdy pete_dushenski

17:30:05 Pierre_Rochard: well I saw crapple mentioned was coincidentally reading up on their developer chumpatronics: http://www.elischiff.com/blog/2015/3/24/fear-of-apple

17:30:06 assbot: Critical Sharks Part IV: Fear of Apple — Eli Schiff ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKTAUp )

17:31:19 Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: ships that pass in the night, gday!

17:31:37 pete_dushenski: ya, it's not a pretty picture over in post-stevelandia

17:31:43 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard: keep nubbins`occupied while i'm gone, wouldja ?

17:31:45 pete_dushenski: cheers !

17:31:58 nubbins`: you're on the clock

17:32:47 *: Pierre_Rochard clocks in, sighs

17:39:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.000213 = 4.2813 BTC [+]

17:42:44 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067902 << all coffee is "black" at starbucks; if you want your coffee ruined, you have to do it yourself at the designated coffee ruining station

17:42:44 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:06:52; nubbins`: example from link: "When a black guy works at Starbucks and one hesitates to ask him for `black coffee"

17:43:01 danielpbarron: !up ascii_field

17:43:13 ascii_field: from the lulzfarms: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/science/hydrogen-bomb-physicists-book-runs-afoul-of-energy-department.html

17:43:16 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKUqR6 )

17:48:19 ascii_field: mats: your phrase 'avoid all crypto standards' is very much -not- the inevitable implication of dismissing usg crapolade

17:48:27 ascii_field: -avoid all usg crypto standards- - yes

17:49:42 ascii_field: mats: leaving us with no real basis for actually figuring out the situation. << know perfectly well that we -have- a real basis. any crypto standard promulgated by known malefactors is to be thrown out. and replaced not with iraqi caesar ciphers, no, but with derivation from first principles of perfectly reasonable modern crypto.

17:53:43 ascii_field: pete_dushenski: what, precisely, was it that you wanted from the jamaicans ?

17:53:46 ascii_field: i still don't get it

17:55:20 danielpbarron: i get what he meant

17:56:41 ascii_field: danielpbarron: the vibe i got was 'why won't they lick my boots, whatddayamean it isn't 1890 and i'm not a brit'

17:57:35 ascii_field: but guess what, a modern italian can't go around proclaiming 'civis romanus sum' to any useful result, either

17:58:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22284 @ 0.00021568 = 4.8062 BTC [+] {3}

17:59:39 mats: http://knoema.com/ahvcqac/global-oil-stock-levels-in-days-of-net-imports

17:59:41 assbot: Global Oil Stock Levels in Days of Net Imports - knoema.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKVpkh )

18:02:30 ascii_field: 'Recent revelations show that the situation has gotten so bad that today there are only approximately 3000 apps profitable enough to support a median income of $50k for their developer. It is also important to note that not all apps are built by one developer, many work as a team. So it follows that there are many fewer than 3000 developers sustainably doing independent development.'

18:02:36 ascii_field: ^ tournamentmarket lulz

18:03:05 ascii_field: 'According to reporting, "1.6 percent of developers earn more than the other 98.4 percent combined. And the bottom 47 percent of engineers earn less than $100 per month." Yet somehow, independent app development has often been described as a 'gold rush' despite it being quietly understood by developers, even as early as 2009, that this was hardly the case.' << does this person have any awareness of what the '49 goldrush

18:03:05 ascii_field: is actually remembered for?

18:03:12 ascii_field: or do words have no meaning to him

18:04:57 chetty: ascii_field, most likely no real knowledge of the gold rush

18:05:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00021442 = 3.152 BTC [-]

18:07:11 nubbins`: haha

18:07:29 *: nubbins` wrote two iOS apps, submitted to overlord for review & put up for sale

18:07:38 nubbins`: can verify, not reasonable way of making living

18:07:58 *: ascii_field wrote one long ago, never published, wouldn't do it again

18:08:20 nubbins`: (anyone with half a brain could probably extrapolate that doing work on speculation, in general, is not a reasonable way of making a living)

18:08:32 nubbins`: fwiw i earned enough money to buy an ipad

18:08:36 ascii_field: obligatory: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-02-2015#1008262

18:08:36 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 09:57:56; punkman: "app rating farm" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9EKh_lIEAE1O8u.jpg

18:08:36 nubbins`: so i guess there's that

18:08:43 ascii_field: ^ how the 'making a living with apps' folks do it

18:08:52 nubbins`: ha

18:09:20 nubbins`: that's great

18:09:38 nubbins`: "wait now, all those ipads are viewing the bitcoin forum"

18:09:53 ascii_field: -these- and precisely -these- people will always be the first to swear to you that 'being a star just happens'

18:10:21 nubbins`: ascii_field not unlike bitcoin, early "adopters" of writing ios apps scooped up most of the "free money"

18:11:18 nubbins`: i.e. for about three weeks, way back at the start, writing a "fart app" could reasonably earn you several months' wages

18:11:22 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2014#814511

18:11:22 assbot: Logged on 29-08-2014 04:59:28; asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp.

18:11:50 ascii_field: the app 'gold mine' thing is precisely the 'disney entrepreneur farm'

18:11:54 trinque: seems to be precisely the same mechanism

18:12:36 ascii_field: nubbins`: not even speaking of 'early adopters' - but of who it is who owns the 'app' market -today-

18:12:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00022052 = 14.5543 BTC [+] {4}

18:12:38 ascii_field: and why.

18:13:02 nubbins`: i do know a guy who earns his living making mobile apps, but he's truly gifted and also concentrates on bespoke apps for product launch displays, interactive booths, etc

18:13:15 trinque: the few low-tier VCs I've talked to werent' the slightest bit interested in the fact that a) we're already profitable and b) had a sane plan to become more so

18:13:20 ascii_field: nubbins`: very different from the populist chumpatron, though

18:13:21 nubbins`: i know of noone else who can support themselves, let alone a family, on iOS

18:13:28 trinque: just "hey how are we going to chase this loyalty/social/... trend"

18:13:32 nubbins`: almost so different as to not warrant mentioning

18:13:53 nubbins`: nobody mentions how "angry birds" devs made, what was it? 52 failures before they hit that one

18:13:54 nubbins`: !up ascii_field

18:14:13 nubbins`: fifty-two apps that had to be written, tested, submitted, accepted, promoted...

18:14:41 nubbins`: anyway, i said it earlier

18:14:41 ascii_field: article mentions gruber. who i recall very distinctly as an especially smarmy 'volunteer' apple propagandizer. he once sent fifty or so thousand morons to my site

18:14:48 nubbins`: doign work on spec is fucking nuts

18:14:50 ascii_field: when i blasphemed against his prophet

18:15:00 funkenstein_: i refuse to admit that any creature would pay for an app

18:15:00 nubbins`: doing work on spec where it has to pass through a single arbiter is /daft/

18:15:34 nubbins`: funkenstein_ i paid eight or so bucks for a GPS app, 10/10 would do again

18:15:46 ascii_field: in other news, https://underhandedcrypto.com/2015/03/21/all-underhanded-crypto-entries

18:15:48 assbot: All Underhanded Crypto Entries | Underhanded Crypto Contest ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKWkRN )

18:15:48 funkenstein_: one that had already been written?

18:16:00 trinque: I've paid for a few apps, but my phone tends to be a mobile web browser

18:16:01 nubbins`: funkenstein_ try asking a different way?

18:16:11 nubbins`: trinque +1

18:16:27 trinque: were the web not insane, there'd be no 'app stores'

18:16:32 funkenstein_: software that has already been written is free

18:16:55 ascii_field: ^

18:17:10 trinque: funkenstein_: weird way of saying warez? or do you only use open source?

18:17:24 danielpbarron: funkenstein_> i refuse to admit that any creature would pay for an app << I've paid for a few

18:17:32 nubbins`: yeah i'm not sure what

18:17:39 funkenstein_: i ran windows at one point too, not gonna brag about it though

18:17:57 nubbins`: but to answer your impossibly odd question, yes, the GPS app that i purchased had already been written when i purchased it

18:18:24 trinque: I'm not keen on intellectual property, but that's not what I (tell myself I) pay for when I buy software

18:18:27 funkenstein_: i pay folks to write software, not to uh, well whatever it is you paid for

18:18:37 danielpbarron: i paid for an app called "drafts" which had the selling point of being a no-nonsense text input and saving app

18:18:41 nubbins`: funkenstein_ problem is, i can't get much of a GPS app written for $8.

18:19:23 danielpbarron: isn't Waze free?

18:19:24 ascii_field: danielpbarron: this is an ancient plague in the apple world. vendor releases an unusable os, and then various 'entrepreneurs' show up to expensively offer to paper over the turd, and users - oblige

18:19:35 trinque: waze has an upsell iirc

18:19:48 danielpbarron: i'm pretty sure i've never given waze any money

18:19:54 trinque: so when do we fix the internet guys?

18:19:56 trinque: is that next month?

18:19:59 ascii_field: check out the many apps whose functionality sums up to one line of 'sed' on a sane machine

18:20:12 nubbins`: funkenstein_ that said, if you know of a way i can turn my phone into a full-featured GPS unit for eight dollars, feel free to let me know

18:20:15 trinque: need a sandbox which runs lisp code and can do rudimentary socket IO

18:20:17 nubbins`: i'm sure others would be interested as well

18:20:22 funkenstein_: what is a full featured gps unit?

18:20:26 trinque: exchange pub key to get access

18:20:30 funkenstein_: gives you two coordinates of your location?

18:20:36 nubbins`: ah, we're doing pedantics here

18:20:59 danielpbarron: i paid for the up-sells in an app called "unfollow" so that i could keep an exceptions list; had it remove it recently because it became too buggy

18:21:19 nubbins`: no, it lets you create tracks, waypoints, PoIs, displays your avg speed and distance travelled, switch map overlays, blah blah

18:21:26 funkenstein_: you are looking for good map software actually, GIS is what you mean to say

18:21:31 trinque: best thing about gossipd is probably going to be writing software around it

18:21:44 nubbins`: no, i have good map software and good free maps

18:21:55 nubbins`: i'm looking for /bells and whistles/

18:22:15 nubbins`: if all i wanted was a map i'd take a fucking map

18:22:17 mats: https://github.com/ryancdotorg/undercrypto2014

18:22:18 assbot: ryancdotorg/undercrypto2014 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKWHf8 )

18:22:18 funkenstein_: i'm sure you can find what you are looking for

18:22:26 nubbins`: i'm sure you're talking out your ass

18:22:31 trinque: ehehehe

18:22:42 funkenstein_: if not let me know i'll get you the apk or whatever for free

18:22:51 ascii_field: mats: yours ?

18:22:54 trinque: called it, warez

18:22:59 danielpbarron: the nicksquatters are mad at eachother!

18:23:08 nubbins`: funkenstein_ are we even speaking the same language here?

18:23:19 trinque: funkenstein_: there's nothing wrong with paying for software

18:23:30 trinque: I would like access to the source but that's a separate issue

18:23:45 ascii_field: not long ago i paid for - air.

18:23:45 funkenstein_: trinque, that depends who you pay and when

18:23:47 ascii_field: for tires.

18:23:47 nubbins`: "i paid eight bucks for a binary with neat features" "yeah? well i pay everyone to write the software i use. or i use free shit. you're a dummy, use free shit!"

18:23:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16086 @ 0.00022577 = 3.6317 BTC [+]

18:23:58 ascii_field: didn't 'feel good' about it though

18:23:58 mats: ascii_field: ha, no. a finalist from this year

18:24:00 funkenstein_: i prefer to pay software developers for software

18:24:08 nubbins`: as if my time is so valueless that i'm willing to give up a couple hours over EIGHT DOLLARS

18:24:12 trinque: nubbins`: he git-tips a penny! good enough for anyone

18:24:21 nubbins`: ....

18:24:31 ascii_field: nubbins`: payware costing money is by far the least significant problem with it, in my experience

18:24:40 trinque: funkenstein_: ascii_field may give you a beating if you claim you have full control over your software stack

18:24:42 ascii_field: and i've used software packages costing six (usd) figures

18:24:49 danielpbarron: yeah i really don't mind paying for nice things, software or otherwise

18:24:52 ascii_field: (as i'm sure many others here have)

18:25:07 danielpbarron: heck i recently paid 120 USD for OpenBSD cd sets

18:25:13 nubbins`: <<<

18:25:23 nubbins`: i'm not sure what's so hard to digest here

18:25:42 nubbins`: "why would you purchase a moleskine notebook? just use vi"

18:25:57 funkenstein_: danielpbarron did you send the 120 to an appstore?

18:26:11 trinque: holy fuck

18:26:13 nubbins`: ;;calc 8*.3

18:26:14 gribble: 2.4

18:26:16 trinque: funkenstein_: openbsd doesn't come from an app store

18:26:23 funkenstein_: bingo

18:26:29 danielpbarron: i used a credit card so...

18:26:32 nubbins`: so of my eight bucks, $2.40 went to apple.

18:26:46 funkenstein_: don't let it happen again ok?

18:26:52 nubbins`: is there anyone present who would take on the job of finding me a piece of software compatible with my needs, for $2.40?

18:27:14 funkenstein_: i'm happy to look around for free

18:27:24 nubbins`: your time is your own to waste!

18:27:29 nubbins`: my time has value

18:27:33 danielpbarron: the better argument may be "don't use the kind of device that has an app store" or something

18:27:35 funkenstein_: uh, and here we are

18:27:47 nubbins`: no, you're there and i'm here

18:28:03 danielpbarron: but seeing as how i have this stupid iphone, i really don't mind paying 1 to 10 USD for an app that actually works as described

18:28:33 trinque: soon as there's a fully open and documented phone/computer, I'll buy that too

18:28:39 funkenstein_: even though it has a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem

18:28:42 danielpbarron: i don't care about the principle of the thing -- that a text input without cruft should just come with the thing

18:28:56 nubbins`: ah get out

18:29:20 danielpbarron: on a related note, i'm totally getting a moleskin notebook

18:29:23 nubbins`: me buying a handheld garmin has a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem

18:29:26 trinque: funkenstein_: you can moralize about any step in the supply chain of the thing

18:29:30 nubbins`: you buying a car has the same effect

18:29:36 danielpbarron: in the time it takes to unlock phone and open text app, i could have already written the idea down

18:29:49 trinque: I've got a highly customized gentoo running all OSS.... on a fucking lenovo x1 carbon

18:30:02 nubbins`: trinque lenovo? did it come with windows?

18:30:03 trinque: still not sin-free (TM)

18:30:09 trinque: nubbins`: yeah win 8.1

18:30:10 nubbins`: ^

18:30:19 nubbins`: thanks for having a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem, judas

18:30:20 trinque: saying you can't escape

18:30:27 trinque: nubbins`: :''(

18:30:30 nubbins`: right?

18:30:35 nubbins`: senseless wank-off

18:31:00 trinque: or hell I get an "open computer" whatever that is

18:31:05 ascii_field: there is no sensible 'pNohe', we already knew this

18:31:07 trinque: now I want wireless internet

18:31:10 trinque: fucked.

18:31:46 nubbins`: but at least we have people happy to look around for free

18:31:49 trinque: or the parts are completely open and NSA spent infinite money discovering hardware flaws

18:31:54 trinque: and now I'm part of the NSA botnet

18:31:56 trinque: not sin free

18:32:05 nubbins`: i'll just pop on irc every time i'm tempted to pay two dollars to satisfy an impulse

18:32:05 danielpbarron: the only software ecosystem that matters is right in here and i don't see it getting harmed by us paying for a gps app on our phones

18:32:29 ascii_field: trinque: part of the NSA botnet << most of us will live and die without having the honour of an 0day spent (yes, they're used up when used, think about it) on our sorry hides

18:32:34 nubbins`: danielpbarron "but if the gps app is closed source, it could be sending your location to the NSA" 8)8)8)8)8)

18:33:31 danielpbarron: so then the argument is "don't use iphone at all" which is a much more sensible argument

18:33:44 trinque: ascii_field: hm, I took the hard drive firmware situation to mean malware could hide and resurface without being detectable at the OS level

18:33:59 trinque: I wouldn't know

18:34:17 trinque: that led me to believe that they infect everyone, make almost all dormant

18:34:38 trinque: this led me to thinking about how much of what I've heard through leaks is psyops

18:35:01 danielpbarron: trending in social media == likely psyops

18:36:02 trinque: ascii_field: makes sense though that they would treat these like fire-once weapons

18:37:27 ascii_field: trinque: basic tradecraft - the more shocking the exploit, the louder will be the cry when it is discovered; the more victims - the sooner it ends up on, e.g., my desk, or that of 100,000 other folks who can pry it open

18:37:39 mats: http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/

18:37:40 assbot: Project IceStorm ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKXug8 )

18:38:05 ascii_field: mats: neato, there was a similar project for xilinx 'virtex'

18:38:11 ascii_field: mats: actually, at least two

18:38:33 mats: how was their progress?

18:38:50 ascii_field: mats: surprisingly usable

18:38:52 ascii_field: but

18:38:54 ascii_field: mats: the way the story normally ends is that the reversed fpga becomes quasi-usable nearly the same time it goes out of print and replaced with incompatible version...

18:39:13 ascii_field: ...and...

18:39:20 ascii_field: 'as long as no block memories or hard IP blocks are used' << ahahahahaha.

18:39:22 ascii_field: academic turd.

18:39:25 ascii_field: worthless.

18:39:40 ascii_field: even something as simple as dram is not, in practice, usable without the 'hard' blocks

18:39:43 ascii_field: on any fpga whatsoever

18:39:49 ascii_field: the timing constraints are unforgiving.

18:39:59 *: ascii_field bashed his head on this for most of a year, at one point

18:40:06 ascii_field: also see old threads

18:40:07 ascii_field: !s xilinx

18:40:08 assbot: 56 results for 'xilinx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xilinx

18:40:09 mats: i didn't know that

18:40:21 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA10nFyUQAAiegp.png https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA2qpYEUcAA3ByF.jpg:large

18:40:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKXGfp )

18:40:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKXGfs )

18:44:22 danielpbarron: !up ascii_field

18:46:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.0002305 = 2.4664 BTC [+]

18:47:54 jurov: http://animalous.com/ in the bottom, 33 reasons for lulz

18:47:55 assbot: Animalous ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKY7q7 )

18:48:24 jurov: and the motivation, too

18:49:13 ascii_field: 'The library implements the AES block cipher in CTR mode and for the most part behaves as it is described in almost all circumstances it would normally be used in. Notably it passes all the FIPS and RFC test vectors for AES encoding and can interoperate with openssl. The library can be used in most any application where AES is needed and will behave appropriately. The library becomes exploitable specifically when it gets

18:49:14 ascii_field: used as part of an implementation of IPSec over IPv6 in a resource constrained IP stack. In such a case, under normal operation the library will perform properly, interoperating with other IPSec aes-ctr hosts. But when it is triggered by a forged ICMPv6 packet it will lead to a full plaintext reveal. Another forged ICMP packet will restore the conforming behavior so that normal packet retries will mask the improper

18:49:14 ascii_field: behavior.'

18:49:21 ascii_field: ^ winner of ucc

18:57:31 ascii_field: from a runner-up:

18:58:17 ascii_field: 'Provides a working implementation of a backdoor embedded into the RSA modulus of a Certification Authority public-key certificate and the code for a minimalistic client and server communicating over a TLS channel:'

18:58:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6305 @ 0.0002305 = 1.4533 BTC [+]

18:59:01 ascii_field: 'Shows how this backdoor can completely pervert the security guarantees provided by the TLS protocol... even the presence of a single CA certificate with a secretly embedded backdoor in the certificate store would render the entire TLS security fictional...'

18:59:30 ascii_field: (Alfonso De Gregorio)

19:02:32 jurov: there's also ECDSA goodie "I have extended this attack to work in cases where there is a

19:02:33 jurov: known difference between the key values used in two signatures"

19:02:43 ascii_field: jurov: sop

19:03:07 ascii_field: this was, iirc, actually fired in anger and coin was recovered

19:04:20 ascii_field: incidentally, one of the entries is a diddled ecc curve

19:04:53 ascii_field: 'It is my aim to set a new high-water mark for transparency in parameter generation. To that end, all of these values are nothing-up-my-sleeve numbers which I generated by singing the Bohemian Rhapsody backward with my dog barking in the background, digitizing the audio as an MP3 at a bitrate of 192kbit/s, and taking every 17th byte of the result. Their integrity can easily be verified by repeating this procedure.'

19:05:16 ascii_field: ^ i won't spoil the riddle here

19:06:40 jurov: can i borrow the dog?

19:06:48 jurov: :D

19:09:53 ascii_field: ... and one of the submissions is a pwning of actual wild openssl when an idiot uses dsa.

19:10:44 ascii_field: jurov: the rpm signature entry isn't yours by any chance ?

19:11:05 ascii_field: i could've sworn you discovered this very item in the actual wild

19:11:07 jurov: no, i have no entry

19:11:16 jurov: which one?

19:11:19 ascii_field: it's the one by S. Nicolussi

19:13:40 jurov: ths is something different

19:14:05 ascii_field: ah

19:14:29 ascii_field: i highly recommend reading the ucc winners

19:14:33 ascii_field: to all of the people here.

19:15:10 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

19:15:47 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell mircea_popescu es.qntra sounds cool Seperate wordpress install for it does seem necessary

19:15:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:15:56 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell cazalla es.qntra sounds cool Seperate wordpress install for it does seem necessary

19:15:56 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:16:33 jurov: i was thinking at first "how is he patching yum or what?" but it's about principle

19:16:52 jurov: that it is checking for error messages, not "GOOD signature" string

19:18:01 mats: http://bitseed.me/product/blockchain-node-developer-version/

19:18:03 assbot: Bitseed Personal Server - Bitcoin Node Edition - Bitseed ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOuxoj )

19:18:17 mats: all the moar reason to sell pogos imo

19:19:04 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:19:44 ascii_field: 'OS is Ubuntu 14 with optional GUI desktop. It can support to a mouse, keyboard and HDMI monitor if desired' << l0l!!

19:20:10 jurov: omfg... checked /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/rpmUtils/miscutils.py

19:20:12 mats: http://i.imgur.com/09FTJTl.jpg pictured: one partially disassembled hellfire missile

19:20:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EOv2ic )

19:20:27 jurov: and it *really* does say:

19:20:34 ascii_field: mats: yours ?

19:20:42 jurov: if str(e) == "public key not availaiable":

19:20:52 mats: (training round as indicated by green tip)

19:21:03 jurov: on live cnetos installation

19:21:07 mats: ascii_field: nah. acquaintance's.

19:21:11 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067407 <<< i can figure it out, alternatively, another idea would be to just make another wordpress install in qntra.net/es/

19:21:11 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 09:25:50; mircea_popescu: cazalla you know how to set that shit up tho ?

19:21:28 ascii_field: mats: what do these cost (assuming this was surplus ?)

19:21:59 cazalla: BingoBoingo, there's also wordpress multisite, but i have never used it

19:22:25 ascii_field: mats: and is that a flir camera head in the left hand side? another golden toilet

19:22:45 mats: ascii_field: iirc bezzle rate for live rounds are 70k+

19:22:47 *: Adlai would call this a partly disassembled enclosure, the missile has its own insides too

19:23:24 BingoBoingo: cazalla: They moved most of that functionality into wordpress, better to separate the things at a moving parts level anyways

19:24:04 mats: ascii_field: i think so. i believe the tip is transparent like the 'Sidewinder'

19:24:19 cazalla: the only downside to es.qntra.net would be that it won't benefit from the mother, a subdomain is essentially a brand new site (in the eyes of google)

19:25:03 BingoBoingo: Ah

19:26:06 ascii_field: mats: tip is normally transparent in heat-seekers

19:27:27 ascii_field: mats: what precisely is the point of a training round rocket ?

19:27:31 ascii_field: size-and-mass model ?

19:28:30 mats: i can't explain it.

19:28:30 Adlai: some training ordnances let you toggle in simulated errors

19:28:56 *: Adlai doesn't know about this specific one

19:29:01 ascii_field: judging only by the photo, the electronic components are in

19:29:08 ascii_field: and one can presumably speak to them

19:30:17 ascii_field: at any rate, such rockets have not really changed since the '70s

19:30:21 ascii_field: there is nothing 'magic' in them.

19:30:29 Adlai: iirc some training ordnance also simulates in-flight behavior of the real thing

19:30:45 BingoBoingo: My guess is it is either for training pilots under load or training maintenance techs without a sapper's margin of error

19:30:49 Adlai: ... actually, there's a lot of new magic?

19:31:03 *: Adlai is more familiar with anti-tank than anti-air though

19:31:51 Adlai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(missile)

19:31:53 assbot: Spike (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HABooQ )

19:32:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00023303 = 1.6196 BTC [+] {2}

19:40:43 ascii_field: if it is anything like the training version of 'strela' (man-portable surface to air rocket from ru, whose manual was discussed in here a few wks ago) the training variant lets you lock onto and track a target, but doesn't fly or explode.

19:40:58 ascii_field: (or did we do 'igla' ? i forget)

19:43:39 BingoBoingo: lol q&a at the end https://www.allcrypt.com/blog/2015/03/what-happened-and-whats-going-on/

19:43:41 assbot: What happened, and what’s going on « AllCrypt Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1HAE3yJ )

19:44:04 BingoBoingo: I think we did discuss igla

19:44:09 BingoBoingo: !s igla

19:44:09 assbot: 4 results for 'igla' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=igla

19:45:15 BingoBoingo: It's there

19:45:32 nubbins`: ben_vulpes mod6 mircea_popescu and other interested parties: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=uJQDaKcz

19:45:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HAEBoj )

19:45:46 nubbins`: ^ Compiling bitcoin-v0.5.3.1 on OSX

19:49:57 BingoBoingo: !Up ascii_field

19:51:14 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: nubbins`: any changes -not- in common with openbsd << For versions earlier than 5.7 and -current some wallet.cpp code needs changed to use better random

19:53:29 mod6: great work nubbins`!

19:53:33 mod6: thanks for posting.

19:53:36 thestringpuller: ascii_field: axe time has begun

19:54:02 ascii_field: thestringpuller: hm ?

19:54:17 thestringpuller: you see the bitnode news?

19:54:57 ascii_field: aha

19:54:58 ascii_field: snore.

19:55:09 ascii_field: doesn't cost any less than a normal computer

19:55:22 ascii_field: (say, from 'pcengines')

19:56:57 nubbins`: mod6 i should stress that *none* of the hardening options are included in that makefile, and it really should not be used for anything other than reference

19:57:25 mircea_popescu: lol cazalla i just got it.

19:58:57 nubbins`: mod6 but FWIW this process should generally be able to be applied to future releases as well

19:58:58 ascii_field: thestringpuller: if they were passing these out for tenbux each, then.

19:59:02 ascii_field: but otherwise snore

19:59:17 nubbins`: i.e. should patch just the same

20:01:21 thestringpuller: ascii_field: snore for now, but if they start selling, they lower barrier to fork.

20:01:31 thestringpuller: selling in volume*

20:02:22 ascii_field: the photo suggests something like a 'raspberry'

20:02:59 thestringpuller: just bad feeling seeing summer 2015 as their schedule and this aligns with gavin wanting to have enough dick's sucked to push his shit into github around then as well

20:03:56 nubbins`: ascii_field i thought it was a raspi between two sheets of acrylic at first

20:04:00 nubbins`: looks like similar class of hw

20:04:05 nubbins`: commodity sbc

20:04:47 nubbins`: .foundation running on pogoplug w/ SD card is a stopgap here

20:08:37 ascii_field: i think i've identified the board

20:08:42 ascii_field: it is a 'banana pi.'

20:09:47 ascii_field: not revealed in the phoundation site, of course

20:10:00 ascii_field: but can be inferred from the port layout and the chipset in the spec sheet.

20:12:40 mircea_popescu: ascii_field lol.

20:12:52 mircea_popescu: the blessing of suck these people have srsly...

20:13:21 mod6: # Modified March 22 2015 by Satoshi Nakamoto for La Serenissima << :]

20:13:39 nubbins`: dat paying for a needless gpu, hdmi, etc

20:13:54 mircea_popescu: lol win

20:13:54 ascii_field: nubbins`: them's chumps paying

20:14:17 nubbins`: i wonder how much $$ pogo boards could be had for in quantity

20:14:20 nubbins`: (if at all)

20:14:42 ascii_field: nubbins`: probably ~19 usd forever until they run out

20:14:47 ascii_field: upon which $maxint.

20:14:59 mircea_popescu: hemeans just the boards.

20:15:05 nubbins`: lel. i know, i mean actually having just the boards produced

20:15:08 mircea_popescu: nubbins` the plastic casing is at least as valuable as the boards.

20:15:13 nubbins`: mircea_popescu +1

20:15:21 nubbins`: it comes with a fucking 3-foot cat5!

20:15:27 nubbins`: and a power supply too!

20:15:28 ascii_field: and dc brick

20:15:30 ascii_field: aha

20:15:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21678 @ 0.00023498 = 5.0939 BTC [+]

20:15:38 ascii_field: and don't forget the steel heat sink in there

20:15:46 nubbins`: and so on!

20:15:46 mircea_popescu: ^

20:16:02 nubbins`: so what i'm wondering is what you're looking at for, say, 10k units without all that fluff

20:16:04 ascii_field: i'll add that the case is not merely decorative

20:16:11 ascii_field: it holds the heatsink in place, and cradles the hdd

20:16:29 mircea_popescu: nubbins` 10k is not in quantity noob.

20:16:34 ascii_field: ^^

20:16:38 nubbins`: lel you're right hey

20:16:38 mircea_popescu: 10mn, you can prolly have for ~7-8 or so

20:17:04 ascii_field: rupees.

20:17:26 nubbins`: i obv have no idea as to scale here

20:17:45 ascii_field: 10 mn, i'd stuff it all on one die.

20:18:07 ascii_field: and a socket on the side for another identical unit, for when the flash fills.

20:18:20 ascii_field: ad infinitum.

20:18:32 ascii_field: (ethernet socket on other hand side, naturally)

20:18:58 ascii_field: like 'lego blocks'

20:20:22 *: nubbins` shrugs

20:20:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8147 @ 0.00023239 = 1.8933 BTC [-]

20:20:59 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

20:23:31 nubbins`: pogo is what, marvell kirkwood?

20:23:35 thestringpuller: http://bitseed.me/product/blockchain-node-developer-version

20:23:40 ascii_field: nubbins`: aha

20:23:42 thestringpuller: ^- posted by same dude on reddit

20:23:43 ascii_field: !s marvell

20:23:44 assbot: 13 results for 'marvell' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=marvell

20:24:00 nubbins`: might be worth contacting /them/

20:24:25 nubbins`: if anyone'd have a handle on someone down-chain who has however many k units..

20:24:27 ascii_field: nubbins`: for what ?

20:24:33 mircea_popescu: Storage 4 GB NAND Flash

20:24:33 mircea_popescu: 160 GB HDD

20:24:36 mircea_popescu: ahaha this is exactly a pogo

20:24:43 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it's a 'banana pi'

20:24:47 ascii_field: retails for around $60.

20:24:53 mircea_popescu: i mean performance wise.

20:24:54 ascii_field: sand disk, brick, case

20:25:03 ascii_field: slightly faster than pogo, iirc

20:25:14 ascii_field: *sans

20:25:44 ascii_field: pogo has 128m flash also

20:26:04 nubbins`: wait, 4gb nand!

20:26:21 ascii_field: nubbins`: for what do you need a 4g nand ?

20:26:27 mircea_popescu: ascii_field but the 4gb is only because they run crud.

20:26:33 ascii_field: mircea_popescu has it

20:26:37 mircea_popescu: in no way better than 128mb with deturdified os

20:26:42 ascii_field: but iirc that board comes with it on

20:26:50 nubbins`: ascii_field that's what i'm wondering :0

20:26:58 ascii_field: you can't get it without the extra bells & whistles

20:27:11 mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of this, what was the status of teh pogo project ? we ready to bake ?

20:27:41 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you ask me, releasing the memleak version is lunacy

20:27:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00022994 = 6.4843 BTC [-]

20:27:50 ascii_field: regardless of what else works

20:28:35 mircea_popescu: you can't postpone everything until everything else just like you can't have everything louder than everything else.

20:29:01 ascii_field: i specifically mean that a node running bitcoincrashcrashcrash is dangerous to itself and others.

20:29:20 mircea_popescu: how ?

20:29:28 ascii_field: nondeterministic behaviour

20:29:32 mircea_popescu: all bitcoin nodes run that o.O

20:29:38 ascii_field: if i could quantify it, it wouldn't be nondeterministic, would it

20:29:46 ascii_field: i meant that it trashes state unpredictably

20:29:48 ascii_field: upon death

20:29:55 chetty: http://www.wired.com/2015/03/stealing-data-computers-using-heat/

20:29:56 assbot: Stealing Data From Computers Using Heat | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL7dTB )

20:30:06 mircea_popescu: inb4 ascii_field snore.

20:30:09 danielpbarron: nubbins`> it comes with a bobbaing 3-foot cat5! << most do; not all -- the power supply also varies in shape

20:30:17 ascii_field: chetty: ancient tech

20:30:22 nubbins`: danielpbarron uh

20:30:29 mircea_popescu: he'd know.

20:30:46 ascii_field: chetty: a certain semiconductor vendor had a heat-based tattletale mechanism for detecting clones

20:31:02 ascii_field: transmitted a few bytes with small variations in surface temp

20:31:34 nubbins`: dat impure word replacement

20:31:34 chetty: yeah old tech, but showing up in more mainstream sorts of pubs is interesting

20:31:53 ascii_field: the receiver here is the built-in thermistor found in most servers

20:31:56 ascii_field: which is mildly clever

20:32:36 ascii_field: 'The two systems would then engage in a handshake, involving a sequence of “thermal pings” of +1C degrees each, to establish a connection. ' << stopped reading here

20:32:48 ascii_field: noise sensitivity makes it hopeless in the wild

20:33:01 ascii_field: (a passing draft will drop your channel capacity to nothing ?)

20:33:19 nubbins`: a passing draft will drop your outdoor coffee roaster by 20C

20:33:41 nubbins`: wait, that conversation was from somewhere else

20:34:26 danielpbarron: how hard would it be to get OpenBSD on a pogo? I've been idling in their channel but I'm not sure how productive it would be to just go "hey someone should start supporting this architecture for my pet project!"

20:34:38 ascii_field: danielpbarron: same problem as netbsd

20:34:57 ascii_field: (no support for the nand; bizarre bugs in other drivers)

20:35:20 danielpbarron: i don't mind paying someone to do it, but i probably can't afford whatever that kind of work is worth

20:35:33 ascii_field: i would do it pro bono but haven't the time

20:35:41 ascii_field: (i know exactly how)

20:35:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00023035 = 1.9695 BTC [+] {2}

20:36:06 danielpbarron: i got your netbsd kernel to boot on the pogo; this is possible with openbsd as well?

20:36:17 ascii_field: haven't tried personally

20:36:29 ascii_field: but iirc the device support of openbsd is a subset of netbsd's

20:36:55 nubbins`: was bsd chosen because of smallest footprint or other?

20:37:15 danielpbarron: http://www.openbsd.org/armish.html << this is it?

20:37:16 assbot: OpenBSD/armish ... ( http://bit.ly/1HARjU5 )

20:37:18 nubbins`: i recall you saying a bare bones install could be impossibly tiny

20:37:25 BingoBoingo: <nubbins`> was bsd chosen because of smallest footprint or other? << small footprint no crud

20:37:44 danielpbarron: i wouldn't mind gentoo

20:37:59 mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> (a passing draft will drop your channel capacity to nothing ?) << BUT DRM IN AUDIO WORKS!!!

20:40:12 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes mod6 what do you two figure is a realistic timeline for "bitcoind version that doesn't allocate memory without checks and so doesn't crash in THAT particular way" ?

20:40:29 mircea_popescu: apparently ascii_field wants a provably-correct stack of five layers of software before we ship out ten dollar items.

20:41:02 ascii_field: neh just something that isn't guaranteed to kark its breeks after 40min

20:41:21 mircea_popescu: 40 mins is the new 2 weeks

20:41:38 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what was the current block count on those things ?

20:41:46 ascii_field: anyone who wants an illustration of roughly what has to be done, is invited to read my skull&crossbones patch

20:41:52 danielpbarron: height=295831 vs height=216046

20:41:56 mod6: For me, and I might be wrong here, but fixing that is a huge chunk of work. I'd have to break it down to give a decent estimate. But I'd guess 6 months or more, easy.

20:42:01 mircea_popescu: remind me, what are the configs on them ?

20:42:12 mircea_popescu: mod6 i am of the same persuasion.

20:42:24 mircea_popescu: if we live to see it we've lived a long life.

20:42:30 mod6: srsly.

20:42:34 ascii_field: wai wat

20:42:36 ascii_field: fixing leak ?

20:42:53 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you familiar with how long current foundation patch took ?

20:43:03 mircea_popescu: or anything else for that matter, deedbot, cardano, eulora, name it.

20:43:19 mircea_popescu: i'm just about to release v5 eulora here AFTER A YEAR

20:43:19 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one of these things is not like the other, i think

20:43:23 mircea_popescu: and that was a year of fucking work.

20:43:23 ascii_field: phoundation has no day job

20:43:30 ascii_field: they ought to have gone 100x faster.

20:43:32 mircea_popescu: o it doesn't ? why not ?

20:43:35 chetty: fisrt version of eulora was fast :)

20:43:44 mircea_popescu: o look at those kulaks over there... THEY have to do things right.

20:43:46 mircea_popescu: julia. not us.

20:43:55 ascii_field: gavin or whoever - isn't he a full-time dev for turdation ?

20:44:09 danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/pogo-config.txt

20:44:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL8nP1 )

20:44:10 mircea_popescu: yes and he's doing his job to the best of his abilities.

20:44:12 mod6: Our goal is to get this resolved, but I think it seriously is going to take some effort. Part of going forward from this release is going to be breaking down goals and getting them lined up. I have high hopes to discuss much of this at the Cnof.

20:44:15 mircea_popescu: except he's currently rated F for failure.

20:44:16 mod6: *Conf

20:44:32 mircea_popescu: mod6 speaking of which, you never answered email.

20:45:14 mod6: Sorry! I'll get you something tonight :)

20:45:25 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/thermal-sidechannel-carries-8-bits-per-hour-in-proof-of-concept/

20:45:26 assbot: Thermal Sidechannel Carries 8 Bits Per Hour in Proof of Concept | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL8t9o )

20:45:30 mircea_popescu: just making sure you got it.

20:45:34 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: we just did that one

20:45:46 BingoBoingo: ascii_field: I'd already started on it

20:45:48 mircea_popescu: he writes for qntra!

20:45:50 mod6: Yes, Sir. Should have responded lastnight, just got distracted hacking together my obsd lappy.

20:46:43 ascii_field: mod6, mircea_popescu: depending on what it means to fix the leak (total replacement for block sync mechanism and a mathematical proof for it? or something more like my patch ?) it could take anywhere from a weekend to maxint days

20:47:17 mod6: yeah, im talking about an all encompassing approach .. many small steps, the former.

20:47:26 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron i meant, how are they different.

20:47:41 mod6: Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.

20:47:41 danielpbarron: refresh, i just added the other

20:47:52 danielpbarron: oh you mean parts?

20:47:56 danielpbarron: different hard drives

20:48:03 mircea_popescu: ascii_field the way system engineering is done, is either do not fix a problem, or else fix the problem. adding a problem++ to the list at the cost of a weekend is not on this list.

20:48:11 danielpbarron: one is solid state; other is 5400 rpm

20:48:20 mircea_popescu: that it ?

20:48:22 danielpbarron: ya

20:48:28 mircea_popescu: aha cool.

20:49:16 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: adding a problem++ to the list at the cost of a weekend is not on this list << astute observation, which is why my patch was specifically labeled as a proof to nail down the locus of the problem, and not an item to be used on the battlefield.

20:49:37 mircea_popescu: cool. so then, these things are pretty much ready to launch are they ?

20:49:37 danielpbarron: i also had one going that was using a USB3 stick -- stopped it after a week or so when it was clearly way too slow

20:49:59 danielpbarron: they are not up to the defined spec

20:50:01 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron link me to your last version of "how to" again plox ?

20:50:02 ascii_field: http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/03/woman-held-in-psych-ward-for-saying-obama-follows-her-on-twitter-even-though-he-actually-does

20:50:03 assbot: Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL8MRu )

20:50:10 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what's the shortcoming again ?

20:50:17 danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/howto.txt

20:50:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL8NFe )

20:50:31 danielpbarron: this howto is more for developers

20:50:39 nubbins`: woo

20:50:49 nubbins`: i have pogo x2 on the way, i'm gonna dig into this

20:50:56 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron hoply shit, this thing... dude...

20:50:58 mircea_popescu: what do you work irl ?

20:51:16 mircea_popescu: i haven't seen asciiart technical drawings in documents since the 90s.

20:51:19 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

20:51:34 danielpbarron: the shortcoming is it's using ArchLinux, doesn't boot from eeprom, requires a great deal of user setup to get working

20:51:34 trinque: all danielpbarron's docs rule

20:51:38 mircea_popescu: cool beans nubbins`

20:52:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9311 @ 0.00022906 = 2.1328 BTC [-]

20:52:27 danielpbarron: would have to be shipped with SD card already configured if the end user is to just plug in a hard drive and forget about it

20:53:22 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what's your job offline ?

20:53:31 danielpbarron: it's a seasonal warehouse thing

20:53:39 mircea_popescu: shut up.

20:53:44 danielpbarron: LTL

20:53:46 mircea_popescu: you're a tchnical / manual writer.

20:53:59 mircea_popescu: stop wasting your time with whatever. you have any idea what shortage is for these ?

20:54:11 mircea_popescu: or, for that matter, what it pays ?

20:54:35 nubbins`: ^ truth sauce, almost took this up as a career

20:54:45 mircea_popescu: no but this nut's fucking talented, look at this thing.

20:54:49 nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> would have to be shipped with SD card already configured if the end user is to just plug in a hard drive and forget about it <<< that is actually preferable for almost everyone who would buy this

20:54:53 danielpbarron: it's not complete btw

20:55:01 mircea_popescu: you have any idea how fucking ~rare~ an actual talent for technical writing is ?

20:55:10 nubbins`: very

20:55:11 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron srsly. look into it.

20:55:29 danielpbarron: well i'm also really good at LTL, heh

20:55:35 *: nubbins` did well enough at this in uni to get pulled into strange prof's office for praise once

20:55:46 danielpbarron: "logistics" or w/e they call it

20:55:49 nubbins`: and i wouldn't call myself, y'know, outstanding

20:56:00 danielpbarron: i move millions of dollars worth of stuff over the course of a month or two

20:56:12 mircea_popescu: is ltl where you load trucks all day ?

20:56:46 danielpbarron: ya, and schedule them

20:56:53 danielpbarron: and get the orders ready for them

20:56:53 mircea_popescu: aha. well... your lyf, your calls.

20:57:10 mircea_popescu: i wish upon my enemies to be here with me

20:57:16 mircea_popescu: and enjoy the fucking TONEDEAF PARADE

20:57:22 mircea_popescu: thousands of people!

20:58:28 danielpbarron: good to know there are other options; i woudln't mind supplementing my income

20:58:37 danielpbarron: especially with food costing what it does these days

20:58:41 mircea_popescu: o.O

20:58:43 danielpbarron: i'm getting slaughtered at the supermarket

20:59:07 mircea_popescu: "dude, get into this thing you're great for it pays excellent" "oh, i do ok... and i know what food costs." "listen to me... you're not supposed to know what food costs."

21:00:38 nubbins`: if you did, you'd not eat it

21:00:39 mircea_popescu: anyway. so archlinux ? what happened to netbsd or w/e ?!

21:00:43 mircea_popescu: shit im behind.

21:01:14 BingoBoingo: There's concurrent pogo threads

21:01:49 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo im gonna unwind this thing cause i think it ran into a problem.

21:02:04 mircea_popescu: soo where them threads lead.

21:02:07 mircea_popescu: see*

21:02:24 nubbins`: if we're talking about a "pogo node" as a kit that one can purchase, i think, it's fine to start with w/e distro, booting from SD, skull-and-crossbones patches, w/e

21:02:33 BingoBoingo: Well, the pogo hardware was never marketed with multithreading

21:03:01 nubbins`: all else aside, owning one of these pogos is an opportunity

21:03:07 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so what exactly is it, how did it end up on arch ?

21:03:23 nubbins`: if it's got a real version of bitcoind that works enough to use, all the better

21:04:57 nubbins`: nobody who can't follow some simple instructions to flash nand down the road and reclaim their SD card is gonna buy one anyway

21:05:30 nubbins`: find any forum thread anywhere about pogoplugs being sold at these prices, most of the responses are "!!!!!!!!!"

21:05:55 mircea_popescu: lol

21:11:29 danielpbarron: there was already a guide written for getting it to work on arch

21:12:19 danielpbarron: and then later i found a guide for debian, but the bitcoind was still dynamic and wouldn't work on it

21:12:25 mircea_popescu: ah so because easier ?

21:12:31 mircea_popescu: is the current arch thing static ?

21:12:34 danielpbarron: no

21:12:50 danielpbarron: it's from ascii's portatronic instructions

21:13:10 danielpbarron: easier yes, in that i don't know any alternatives that work yet

21:13:32 danielpbarron: i think another unsolved problem is that we don't know how to compile a linux kernel that works

21:13:43 danielpbarron: or else maybe gentoo would work on it

21:14:31 mircea_popescu: so basically, you put archlinux according to ascii_field's brew on the pogo, and then compiled a static foundation bitcoind and loaded that up, and that's what we have now ?

21:14:39 trinque: danielpbarron: you can use localmodconfig for that

21:14:43 trinque: make localmodconfig

21:14:50 danielpbarron: no, i compiled the dynamic foundation bitcoind

21:14:52 trinque: build it on a working linux, and you'll get a kernel config

21:14:57 trinque: with all current mods

21:15:27 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron because static didn't work because ?

21:15:35 danielpbarron: it didn't exist at the time

21:15:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.00022806 = 6.2032 BTC [-] {3}

21:15:48 thestringpuller: !t m s.qntr

21:15:48 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 7D: 0.00020808 / 0.00020865 / 0.00021 (10000 shares, 2.09 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00024954 / 0.000301 (46659 shares, 11.64 BTC)

21:15:50 mircea_popescu: mod6 do we have it yet ?

21:15:56 danielpbarron: yeah the current release is static

21:15:58 nubbins`: bbl supper but quite interested in getting this sorted

21:15:59 thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe

21:15:59 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00019609 / 0.00022358 / 0.00025613 (1502516 shares, 335.94 BTC), 7D: 0.00019609 / 0.00028609 / 0.00033536 (17959206 shares, 5,138.11 BTC), 30D: 0.00019609 / 0.00034985 / 0.0004493 (81624050 shares, 28,556.94 BTC)

21:16:14 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron can you try it ? on a like... 3rd pogo ?

21:16:17 danielpbarron: sure

21:16:20 mircea_popescu: cool.

21:16:35 mircea_popescu: so then the master here becomes, arch as per ascii, static as per current foundation release.

21:16:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7869 @ 0.00022558 = 1.7751 BTC [-]

21:16:40 mircea_popescu: any questions ? any laments ?

21:16:41 danielpbarron: i tried to build it for my gentoo laptop and it errored out

21:17:01 danielpbarron: it's for 64 bit systems atm

21:17:04 danielpbarron: and mine is 32

21:17:14 danielpbarron: idk if this also means it won't work on pogo or what

21:17:29 mircea_popescu: wait, gentoo stopped supporting 32 bit ?

21:17:39 danielpbarron: no, did

21:18:11 mircea_popescu: oh right.

21:18:18 mircea_popescu: shit. don't tell me the pogos are 32bit ?!

21:21:22 trinque: it would appear to be 32bit arm

21:21:59 mircea_popescu: o fucking hell check out the gross mismanagement i managed to bless the world with.

21:22:55 thestringpuller: !up assbot

21:23:00 thestringpuller: r

21:23:04 thestringpuller: !up ascii_field

21:29:54 mircea_popescu: mod6 so the emerging problem here is that while i said "ok" to 64 bit only foundation bitcoind, it turns out when need 32 bit support for our own fucking projects, which notably is the pogo.

21:30:18 mircea_popescu: now, can we has static etc 32 bit ?

21:30:59 thestringpuller: is netbsd still going to be the pogo "base"?

21:31:14 danielpbarron: thestringpuller, no way!

21:31:34 danielpbarron: is it being 32 bit a problem beyond getting bitcoind working?

21:32:22 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron which bitcoind ?

21:32:45 danielpbarron: our version

21:32:59 mircea_popescu: seems that's 64 bit only now o.O

21:33:21 danielpbarron: i was lead to believe that getting it to work on 32 bit wasn't that big of a deal, just low priority

21:33:46 danielpbarron: i mean, is the pogo being 32 bit a bigger problem? like is 32 bit becoming obsolete or something?

21:33:56 danielpbarron: http://www.openbsd.org/images/poster31.jpg << theme for 5.5 was "back to the future" -- something about how 32 bit is a problem for unix time

21:33:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HySUqb )

21:34:43 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron everything's becoming obsolete eventually. but no, this isn't that.

21:38:40 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2015#1055407

21:38:40 assbot: Logged on 17-03-2015 15:07:01; mod6: anyway, it certainly is a goal to support x32. it'll just be in the next release. this has been dragging out too long.

21:39:43 nubbins`: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3324

21:39:44 assbot: Bitcoin is running 32 bit systems out of virtual memory · Issue #3324 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FTPPSZ )

21:40:58 nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> i also had one going that was using a USB3 stick -- stopped it after a week or so when it was clearly way too slow <<< how far'd you get?

21:41:25 danielpbarron: well i didn't start it from scratch; I copied .bitcoin from the sata one

21:41:45 danielpbarron: http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Adanielpbarron+vs

21:41:46 assbot: 40 results for 'from:danielpbarron vs' - #bitcoin-assets search

21:42:13 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that doesn;t apply : this is pre leveldb

21:42:25 nubbins`: ah look at that

21:42:49 mircea_popescu: they think "it may be fixed" because "anectodally" it doesn't seem to have displayed the behaviour.

21:43:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00022541 = 7.123 BTC [-] {2}

21:43:07 mircea_popescu: basically, this would be prima facie evidence that the code the power rangers sign has very little to do with them.

21:43:20 mircea_popescu: they get it from a dead drop or something, and well, whatever. go to conferences.

21:43:34 nubbins`: the avionics systems haven't failed since last time, so we're pretty sure it may be fixed

21:43:36 nubbins`: seeya in the sky

21:43:51 mircea_popescu: "on this one plane i tried"

21:44:08 mircea_popescu: "which happened to run on a magically garbage collected computor that doens't exist anymore"

21:45:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 306 @ 0.0034 = 1.0404 BTC [-]

21:47:45 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> now, can we has static etc 32 bit ? << yeah. we'll put that at the top of the list.

21:51:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15900 @ 0.0002288 = 3.6379 BTC [+]

21:55:25 mircea_popescu: mod6 danke.

21:55:49 mircea_popescu: ok, so : pogo = arch as per ascii, static new bitcoind 32 bit as soon as foundation can bang it out.

21:56:03 mircea_popescu: moar comments ?

21:56:58 danielpbarron: it could be debian

21:57:16 danielpbarron: debian works well on pogo, i'm ircing from it right now

21:57:25 danielpbarron: the static bitcoind might work on that

21:57:36 mircea_popescu: it can't, it has no 32 bit support.

21:58:11 mircea_popescu: but iirc, a lot of valuable effort went into selecting and pepraring the os. what do you mean "it could be debian" ?

21:58:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25167 @ 0.0002288 = 5.7582 BTC [+]

21:58:37 danielpbarron: so far i've gotton both debian and archlinux to work on a pogo

21:58:52 danielpbarron: gotten* / and debian is preferable because no systemd

21:59:11 mircea_popescu: o.O

21:59:25 danielpbarron: but the dynamic bitcoind wouldn't work on it; this may be resolved with the "new bitcoind 32 bit"

22:00:07 mircea_popescu: dude this "let's try pluging things see what happens" approach only works if you actually test, and you're not tooled for the mindboggling thing this testing would be.

22:00:36 mircea_popescu: gotta go with an os brewed by someone with some experience so as to have at least a fighting chance the whole thing works.

22:01:18 danielpbarron: ascii did not brew the OS i'm using

22:01:36 mircea_popescu: what happened there ?

22:01:37 danielpbarron: his instructions were strictly for building bitcoind for pogo

22:02:00 mircea_popescu: wasn't the bulk of that "how to load the os on it" ?

22:02:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you there ?

22:03:40 danielpbarron: i was holding out for the thing that gets installed in the eeprom

22:04:23 mircea_popescu: ie, the os ?

22:04:28 danielpbarron: yeah

22:04:40 mircea_popescu: so what happened ?

22:06:47 danielpbarron: ascii was looking at netbsd for a time; there was some bug where it couldn't see the nand, plus we discovered nasty things about netbsd in general

22:08:59 mircea_popescu: i see.

22:09:40 mircea_popescu: so basically, i surmise, we'd have liked a clean "os in eeprom, data on disk" arrangement, but it seems we're not actually capable to do this, and so as a backstop you tried a few oses to go on disk

22:09:42 mircea_popescu: that basically it ?

22:10:01 danielpbarron: yeah

22:10:21 danielpbarron: ascii is probably capable, but he's also very busy

22:10:27 danielpbarron: i'm not so busy, but not so capable

22:11:36 mircea_popescu: i see.

22:11:38 nubbins`: arch, fwiw, has the most available documentation re: installing on pogoplug

22:11:45 nubbins`: but afaik there's no reason, say, gentoo wouldn't fly

22:12:00 mircea_popescu: nubbins` the 128mb is the reason none of this flies. they all crawl so far.

22:12:16 nubbins`: consider the statement suitably modified

22:12:28 mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone listening would like to try his hand at "make your fave os 128mb in eeprom"...

22:12:31 jurov: i can do C/system programming fine but gotta pay bills... stepped aside from this for now

22:12:57 mircea_popescu: there is that.

22:13:27 danielpbarron: oh, i guess the reason no gentoo was the kernel and userland are bigger; but if it's not going into the eeprom gentoo should work

22:13:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00023581 = 1.9572 BTC [+] {2}

22:13:42 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2015#1015395

22:13:42 assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 23:14:45; danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what about gentoo on the pogo?

22:13:58 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron we want os on the disk like we want wallets on windows.

22:14:16 mircea_popescu: it's a horribru solution.

22:14:23 danielpbarron: right, but i'm just offering alternatives to ArchLinux (which is also on disk)

22:14:31 mircea_popescu: right.

22:15:17 trinque: danielpbarron: busybox is made for tight spaces

22:15:19 trinque: gentoo can do that

22:15:21 nubbins`: potential for wasted effort if the chosen os won't fit into eeprom down the road

22:15:28 trinque: I'm going to just buy one of these fuckers and pitch in

22:15:36 trinque: as if I don't have enough going on :p

22:15:43 nubbins`: trinque they're a treat

22:15:44 mircea_popescu: nubbins` all effort in linux' is wasted effort!

22:15:44 trinque: pogo 4?

22:15:46 nubbins`: you should get a few

22:15:49 mircea_popescu: because the community is assholes etc.

22:16:01 nubbins`: we're assholes, yet here we are trying

22:16:03 mircea_popescu: trinque you seriously should buy a box.

22:16:04 danielpbarron: trinque, yeah "Pogoplug Series 4" the one with purple logo

22:16:13 trinque: alright

22:16:17 mircea_popescu: i bought hundreds.

22:16:18 nubbins`: blue logo if you want to store blockchain on usb stick ;p

22:16:52 nubbins`: i'm prob'ly gonna grab 50 or so once i'm satisfied i can make it work

22:17:02 danielpbarron: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006I5MKZY/

22:17:04 assbot: Amazon.com : Pogoplug Series 4 Backup Device : Networked Attached Storage : Camera & Photo ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBgiGQ )

22:17:11 trinque: nubbins`: eh? what's the difference in logo color?

22:17:22 nubbins`: blue logo has no USB3 or SATA

22:17:29 nubbins`: just USB2 and SD

22:17:31 nubbins`: http://www.henrys.com/67130-POGOPLUG-MOBILE-CLOUD-DEVICE.aspx

22:17:33 assbot: POGOPLUG MOBILE CLOUD DEVICE POGO-V4-A1-01 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBgshv )

22:17:33 trinque: k

22:18:00 trinque: so I want red/pink/whatever

22:18:06 danielpbarron: also, the blue one cannot boot from usb

22:18:19 nubbins`: boots from SD tho!

22:18:30 danielpbarron: the purple has a usb2 port on the top next to sata port

22:18:38 mircea_popescu: <trinque> as if I don't have enough going on :p << hey, in my spare time i'm designing a fucking game. up to my neck in, of all things, mysql!

22:18:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5533 @ 0.000232 = 1.2837 BTC [-]

22:19:07 trinque: mircea_popescu: heh I don't mind; am merely setting expectations

22:20:19 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: nm, that's not a flute << bwahaha

22:20:30 nubbins`: XD

22:20:57 mircea_popescu: http://bturn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Soviet-sex-12.jpg << notice the male sex bits are crowned

22:20:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1y2ZeRC )

22:21:05 mircea_popescu: and the woman's butt has been spanked.

22:23:39 mircea_popescu: "Japanese society can be notoriously conservative when it comes to gender roles. While there is a lot of talk about the negative effects of imposing traditional roles on women, their restrictiveness and destructiveness for well-being are rarely mentioned in regard to men."

22:23:45 mircea_popescu: prime fucking nonsense.

22:24:10 mircea_popescu: "traditional" gender roles not only happen to be correct, but the costs of getting rid of them are, simply put, societal collapse.

22:24:31 mircea_popescu: the notion taht they are "destructive" for either men or women is so idiotic as to wrap over the ridiculous threshold multiple times.

22:24:48 mircea_popescu: pro tip : not everything that's inconvenient is bad. on the fucking contrary.

22:25:33 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

22:25:37 ascii_field: was in a meeting, l0l

22:26:07 mircea_popescu: ok, so tell me about osen.

22:26:14 ascii_field: ok 30sec version

22:26:37 ascii_field: i've a http://buildroot.uclibc.org for pogov4

22:26:39 assbot: Buildroot: making embedded Linux easy ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBisX8 )

22:26:39 jurov: i guess these roles were fit for manually working males, "inconvenient" for office rats

22:27:02 mircea_popescu: jurov i dun see there's a difference.

22:27:03 ascii_field: but kernel dies during boot and have not so far had the time to determine why

22:27:41 ascii_field: since everyone seems to be 'axe time sword time coooming clooser' i guess it's time for me to actually fix it

22:27:47 mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, i can see a 32 brew of bitcoind coming soonish, is this tacklable to go with it ?

22:27:57 ascii_field: i built for 32!

22:28:05 ascii_field: no one remembers? posted bins too

22:28:09 ascii_field: for armv5 (pogo)

22:28:12 ascii_field: on listserv

22:28:12 mircea_popescu: hm ?

22:28:19 mircea_popescu: unrelated. foundation release.

22:28:30 mircea_popescu: i guess that'll be useful for mod6 as a reminder, tho i think he knows.

22:28:43 ascii_field: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000039.html

22:28:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBiQ7T )

22:29:03 ascii_field: no reason why the latest recipe can't build on my cross-chain

22:29:05 ascii_field: for armv5

22:29:08 mircea_popescu: "PLEASE REMEMBER - these are for research use only.

22:29:08 mircea_popescu: DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT firing these in anger. You may lose limbs." << recall that ?

22:29:11 mircea_popescu: it'll have to come off.

22:29:20 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not directly related

22:29:23 ascii_field: though it was used in the bin

22:29:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, wouldja focus here ?

22:29:40 ascii_field: the build recipe for the cross to armv5 was called 'portatronic'

22:29:45 ascii_field: yes, trying to describe from beginning

22:29:46 mircea_popescu: forget the 32 bit issue, mod6 is working on that.

22:30:06 ascii_field: unless some bug was -introduced- since i last played with bitcoind, it should work ok on 32

22:30:48 mircea_popescu: ascii_field so back to os topic.

22:30:53 ascii_field: aha?

22:30:56 nubbins`: <+ascii_field> no one remembers? posted bins too <<< i remember!

22:31:09 nubbins`: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000039.html

22:31:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zKPVvv )

22:31:11 mircea_popescu: well, how soon can we have it ?

22:31:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: basic idea is that we mustn't ship with a kernel built by some random bozo

22:31:24 ascii_field: (but by known bozo!)

22:31:30 nubbins`: oh fuck, why don't i read

22:31:40 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you get all excited :D

22:31:52 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i said that above eh.

22:32:14 nubbins`: heh

22:32:18 trinque: any reason not to use pogo with an sd card for the blockchain?

22:32:24 trinque: or should I get this usm thing

22:32:24 nubbins`: much of today will be useful in the future, i'm putting a pin in it

22:32:26 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: how soon can we have it << i personally will dust it off tonight and say where it's at before i turn in for the night

22:32:32 mircea_popescu: danke.

22:32:41 mircea_popescu: trinque you should try the sd if you're doing research.

22:32:46 mircea_popescu: we've not tried it much.

22:32:56 trinque: k

22:33:17 danielpbarron: store blockchain on SD card? that will take forever to sync

22:33:21 ascii_field: i tried this

22:33:24 ascii_field: not so hot.

22:33:32 mircea_popescu: maybe he has good sd cards.

22:33:34 ascii_field: sd is a few 100 kB/sec in practice

22:33:42 danielpbarron: the 5400 rpm sata drive takes long enough

22:33:49 ascii_field: serial protocol, ~33MHz iirc

22:34:06 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you gotta appreciate the following point : people have diff items hanging around ther house

22:34:11 mircea_popescu: and time is not much of a constraint here.

22:34:12 ascii_field: sd card isn't typically built for 100% duty cycle either

22:34:20 mircea_popescu: so it takes 6 months to sync instead of 4. oookay ?

22:34:22 ascii_field: (normal application is more something liek a camera)

22:34:23 mircea_popescu: if it runs for55 years ?

22:34:31 danielpbarron: might be interesting to see if an already synced .bitcoin directory is copied over to SD card and see if it can simply keep up

22:34:34 trinque: I am fine with doing the tortoise test

22:34:34 ascii_field: neh more like 2yrs vs 6mo

22:34:43 ascii_field: but -no one- must take my word for it

22:34:46 ascii_field: always - measure.

22:34:47 trinque: mostly interested in helping with the OS

22:34:51 nubbins`: cough

22:34:52 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you on the other hand have to appreciate the ricochet benefit.

22:34:59 mircea_popescu: let the man fucking play with things already

22:35:06 nubbins`: danielpbarron i'm wondering same but re: usb thumb

22:35:17 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's tested and sucks.

22:35:25 nubbins`: ok but what's sucks

22:35:30 trinque: http://www.amazon.com/PNY-Elite-Performance-Speed-Class/dp/B00HIKBW1G/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1427236380&sr=1-4&keywords=sd+card

22:35:33 assbot: Amazon.com: PNY Elite Performance 64GB High Speed SDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Up to 90MB/sec Flash Card - P-SDX64U1H-GE: Computers & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBkgiU )

22:35:33 mircea_popescu: very low speed

22:35:35 trinque: claims 10mb/sec

22:35:43 trinque: write

22:35:44 nubbins`: like 11 minutes to digest each new block sort of low speed?

22:35:53 mircea_popescu: more like 20

22:36:00 nubbins`: f off, srs?

22:36:07 mircea_popescu: it was atrocious.

22:36:28 nubbins`: o.O

22:36:32 danielpbarron: maybe i did it wrong or something; USB3 theoretically should be very fast

22:36:34 mircea_popescu: usbs have never been seriously optimised for FILMING TO THEM

22:36:38 mircea_popescu: some sds were.

22:36:39 nubbins`: hahah

22:36:42 ascii_field: i got pretty good results with usb3

22:36:43 nubbins`: yeah, fine

22:36:53 ascii_field: (samsung)

22:37:05 trinque: seems the above sd is intended for yeah, filming

22:37:05 danielpbarron: maybe it's a bad thumb drive i have

22:37:09 mircea_popescu: but as the guys say, maybe you find the magic stick.

22:37:10 trinque: buying it

22:37:16 nubbins`: so you're saying a synced .bitcoin/ copied to a usb2 thumb drive

22:37:18 nubbins`: and put into a pogo

22:37:24 nubbins`: will not pull down another block?

22:37:26 danielpbarron: nono, usb3

22:37:40 danielpbarron: and no, i haven't tried that

22:37:42 nubbins`: i said usb2 on purpose 8)

22:37:48 trinque: I like how they put 90mb/sec with a fucking asterisk on the thing's sticker

22:37:53 nubbins`: pogoplug mobile = usb2

22:37:54 mircea_popescu: nubbins` more like, it'll never catch up.

22:38:06 trinque: that will someday be the contracted form of "isn't"

22:38:13 mircea_popescu: lol trinque

22:38:14 mircea_popescu: quite

22:38:23 mircea_popescu: "here's a large unrelated number *"

22:38:56 trinque: bullshit everywhere!

22:38:58 *: trinque bought

22:39:08 danielpbarron: would my .bitcoin/ data dir from 0.7.2 be compatible with ?

22:39:15 mircea_popescu: anyway, the situaton is : usb not usable for storage for our purposes, sd maybe usable. if one wants guidance, that's guidance, if one wants to do testing, that's your falsifiable hypothesis.

22:39:25 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron it should be yes.

22:39:39 danielpbarron: hm, that's my most up-to-date copy

22:39:52 nubbins`: same version of db?

22:40:31 danielpbarron: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/05/02/building-bitcoin-0-7-2-on-openbsd/

22:40:32 assbot: Building Bitcoin 0.7.2 on OpenBSD | Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1y33fp8 )

22:40:33 ascii_field: anyways i'ma do another buildroot tonight.

22:40:39 danielpbarron: curl -O http://download.oracle.com/berkeley-db/db-4.8.30.NC.zip

22:41:50 nubbins`: danielpbarron assuming same bdb, i'd say they're interchangeable

22:42:05 nubbins`: we'd want, class 10 sd?

22:42:12 *: nubbins` admittedly knows zilch about sd

22:42:36 mircea_popescu: class sexually adult, if it existed. 18+

22:44:27 nubbins`: so uhs 3

22:44:59 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067542 << for the record, moving is easy, but a year later and with tons and tons of support and roots and whatnot i still throw almost-daily tantrums

22:44:59 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:06:50; asciilifeform: the 'pathology' was that these people imagined they wanted to move to japan, but what they -actually- wanted was: -to have always lived there-

22:45:19 nubbins`: http://www.amazon.ca/Transcend-TS128GSDU3-Speed-UHS-3-Memory/dp/B00J3KA8JG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427237075&sr=8-1&keywords=sd+card+128gb+uhs+3

22:45:21 assbot: Transcend TS128GSDU3 128 GB High Speed 10 UHS-3 Flash Memory Card 95/60 MB/s: Amazon.ca: Computers & Tablets ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBmnmL )

22:45:38 nubbins`: 30MB/s writes if it's up to spec

22:45:53 mircea_popescu: it usually goes like "omfg, argentines are fucking retarded" "unlike who, romanians ?" "but look at X!" "myeah..." "you got a point. fucking people."

22:47:21 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067551 << which is why japan even still exists anymore. they made it to california, that imploded, now they're moving to texas and places. i was kinda snickering at trinque's explosion yest, bexause well... texas won't survive the idiots either.

22:47:21 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:08:20; nubbins`: a lot of them don't make it to japan

22:47:33 mircea_popescu: it doesn't have a policy to take out libtards and shoot them. so it's doomed.

22:47:50 trinque: austin's being infested with californians, yep

22:48:14 nubbins`: callafornee

22:48:21 mircea_popescu: i loved texas in 2004ish. san antonio esp.

22:48:26 mircea_popescu: but i wouldn't revisit.

22:49:11 trinque: time to time I regress to the delusion that somewhere within the state's there's still actual entrepreneurship

22:49:19 trinque: *states

22:49:55 mircea_popescu: you know, like the american beauty notion that somewhere in the obnoxious bitch that's anette benning there's still the girl that flashed helicopters.

22:50:08 mircea_popescu: "just gotta find the right zit to pop, and out she goes"

22:50:16 trinque: lol

22:51:16 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/jerod23/status/580443354934210560 << more PHPain

22:51:17 assbot: Bug in forum software let people on while set offline DEFEATING THE PURPOSE OF GOING OFFLINE TO SPEED REBUILD! Now my IP only hence 403 msg

22:52:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i see you got the boards delivert ?

22:53:06 nubbins`: re: bitseed node, are they using refurb HDDs or something?

22:53:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i somehow doubt that guy has a problem with traffic.

22:53:55 nubbins`: SBC and 160GB hdd for $149, how they makin money!

22:54:07 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Apparently he popped a RAID earlier this week and started his rebuild with the site still up

22:54:30 nubbins`: bahaha

22:55:06 nubbins`: <his disks> :(

22:55:37 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo guy runs a blogspot blog and has 50 followers. what difference does it make if its publicly visible or not.

22:55:40 mircea_popescu: public's not looking.

22:56:48 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's his othersite with woes http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage

22:56:53 assbot: Finding the Treatment Options that Suck Less | The Good, the Bad & the Funny of these Crazy Meds ... ( http://bit.ly/1y36v43 )

22:58:22 mircea_popescu: o look, 403 didn't work either.

22:58:29 trinque: http://www.cafepress.com/crazymeds/10704145 << insanity is a lifestyle

22:58:30 assbot: Medicated for Your Protection : Straitjacket T-Shirts ... ( http://bit.ly/1y36T2r )

22:58:30 mircea_popescu: im sure it's the damned forum bug.

23:04:32 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

23:04:33 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 248.63, Best ask: 248.7, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 248.7, 24 hour volume: 62580.95742971, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 268.44, 24 hour vwap: None

23:04:39 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

23:04:44 gribble: Current Blocks: 349081 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 1702 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 12 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 52114624863.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 11.55256

23:05:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23050 @ 0.00023166 = 5.3398 BTC [+]

23:05:40 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067616 << would not this problem be adequately solved with a huge slab of steel / al / we ?

23:05:40 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:21:38; nubbins`: the $300 one has... a domestic oven element. http://imgur.com/KJqDivg

23:05:49 trinque: http://www.ibtimes.co.in/turkey-guilt-ridden-japanese-engineer-kills-self-harakiri-style-over-bridge-collapse-627096 << not harakiri as I understand it, but still

23:05:50 assbot: Turkey: 'Guilt-Ridden' Japanese Engineer Kills Self Harakiri-Style over Bridge Collapse ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBr0wZ )

23:06:58 mircea_popescu: more points scored for japan than everything the us state dept did past decade put together.

23:09:50 trinque: I doubt I have the culture to even talk about honor but that seems in the ballpark

23:10:43 mircea_popescu: actually americans used to be pretty honorable as far as these things go.

23:11:31 mircea_popescu: then they became reasonable instead, sometime around ww1/ww2. by now...

23:12:40 nubbins`: mircea_popescu huge slab of steel = unreasonable heat-up times, plus the thing'd fall over frontwards

23:13:04 mircea_popescu: i thought this was used on a feeder, not 1 shirt at a time

23:13:12 Pierre_Rochard: http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/24/apple-acquires-durable-database-company-foundationdb/ < NoSQL just became NoDB. Everyone who jumped on that bandwagon got their comuppance

23:13:13 assbot: Apple Acquires Durable Database Company FoundationDB | TechCrunch ... ( http://bit.ly/1y3awFz )

23:13:17 mircea_popescu: if you do 1k of the things, metal is actualy very reasonable. just the right sort of q inertia

23:13:26 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard heh.

23:13:27 nubbins`: this is a "Flash dryer" for semi-drying inks on-press between colors of ink

23:13:47 trinque: Pierre_Rochard: oh codd

23:13:49 nubbins`: i lay down a print, swing the arm 90deg to the left

23:13:59 nubbins`: dwell 10s while i print the next one, rotate again etc

23:14:32 nubbins`: THAT SAID, people can and do use the huge-coil ones

23:14:54 nubbins`: philippines in particular has a massive amount of small-industry silkscreen and almost all of them are using dismantled ovens for curing

23:14:57 jurov: actually that is what i meant, office rats can't really have honor. and without honor, also no role

23:15:21 mircea_popescu: jurov why couldn't they ?

23:15:22 nubbins`: which everyone thought was odd, until one guy from there explained how many ovens an actual flash cure would cost

23:15:37 mircea_popescu: see, to propose honor is somehow in the job ie external rather than i nthe person seems nonsense.

23:15:56 mircea_popescu: besides, historically, every new job was deemed to be "devoid of the possibility of honor"

23:15:57 nubbins`: you see some wild setups. like shirts being hung on a clothesline and wheeled across a 30 foot bank of hung oven elements

23:15:57 nubbins`: etc

23:16:07 jurov: honorable person would refuse such job

23:16:19 mircea_popescu: i dunno about that.

23:16:49 jurov: know any counterexample?

23:16:52 mircea_popescu: now, you're right in saying that gender is not really an attribute of lower life forms, and if one becomes a part of some sort of machine the gender's useless to them, which is how we got bees and ants in the first place.

23:17:14 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i dunno that there's something magical about the office automatically requiring this.

23:17:23 mircea_popescu: the uk ran offices of perfectly respectable folk for all of the 1800s.

23:17:43 mircea_popescu: for that matter - being A DOCTOR is becoming more like this, and wasn't like this before at all - it was the very pinnacle of liberal profession.

23:18:25 mircea_popescu: so i agree that punishing the plebs for being "bicurious" or "metrosexual" or "gender confused" or "Transsexual" or w/e is really silly, they're simply sexless.

23:18:32 mircea_popescu: but this does not flow from "office job" imo.

23:18:49 jurov: both cases were primarily defined tby going out and talking/doing something to people, not pushing papers and filling forms

23:18:51 nubbins`: hey, some people in office jobs have sharp teeth

23:19:24 mircea_popescu: jurov not sure socialisation is the key here. for instance, navigators perfectly honorable, except if not.

23:19:54 jurov: um, i can't put the finger exactly there

23:19:56 mircea_popescu: then again, pirates invented the "honor among thieves" thing which is what we're fundamentally continuating here. "how could there be rule of law otuside of usg ?!?!" "same way there was rule of law in the fucking bahamas"

23:22:31 trinque: jurov: are you equating office with cube-hell?

23:23:07 mircea_popescu: and this is where it comes out that mp sees only very moderate problems with "honor killings", for instance, as atrociously intoilerable they may seem to the libertard set. meanwhile mp sees some problem with say "hospital deaths", as totally benign and normal and expected they seem to the same set.

23:24:05 mircea_popescu: but not subscribing to that particular silly manicheism allows one to see that really, the modern story of "libertard society driving out honor society (aka, amusingly, honorata societa)" has everything to do with a happenstance :

23:24:33 mircea_popescu: that scientists happened to prefer working with one of the available ideologies rather than the other. there's nothing ~fundamental~ about the "well being" of democracy.

23:24:58 mircea_popescu: it all flows from packaging and selling other people's added value, and those other people are pointedly not part of the democracy, nor is their donation necessary in absolutely any sense.

23:25:24 mircea_popescu: so, on the score of "what is bitcoin disrupting" : getting scientists to donate to a honor-based system rather than to a socialism-based system will utterly restructure society.

23:25:32 mircea_popescu: /end rant

23:27:50 trinque: hm yeah, and the thing has inertia. places with scientists are better places for scientists, that sort of thing?

23:27:54 BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe

23:27:54 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00019609 / 0.00022267 / 0.00025613 (1540463 shares, 343.03 BTC), 7D: 0.00019609 / 0.00028556 / 0.00033536 (17997385 shares, 5,139.37 BTC), 30D: 0.00019609 / 0.00034935 / 0.0004493 (81056609 shares, 28,317.29 BTC)

23:28:06 mircea_popescu: truth is scientists can't really be anything but scientists.

23:29:14 mircea_popescu: if they buy into the entire "socialist nice" thing, as exemplified by say the original dispute that created this place, or whatever recent quiote from some linus criticism of poettering's or w/e, you get one sort of failure mode of science.

23:29:24 mircea_popescu: if they buy into the entire honor thing, you get a different failure mode.

23:29:45 mircea_popescu: in principle whichever ideology (ie, principle of societal organisation) offers best insulation from failure modes will prevail.

23:30:21 mircea_popescu: since somehow "tradition" was for a while cognate with "don't need to read or write or even know history, tradition is what i say it is", there was a major, multi-secular migration towards "liberalism"

23:30:40 mircea_popescu: as that shit's coming to hit the fan with its "equality" and whatnot, the whole tectonic plaque's going to come this way again.

23:30:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.00022649 = 6.1605 BTC [-] {2}

23:31:02 mircea_popescu: and so on. it's not just the dusk of "america", it's the end of "democracy" and liberalism etc.

23:31:37 trinque: this way being hierarchial power structures, wealth defining governance?

23:31:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00022532 = 2.6024 BTC [-] {2}

23:32:07 mircea_popescu: