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Transcript for 24-04-2015, 1055 lines:

00:03:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The part where their userbase consists of so many accounts that haven't been used in years

00:03:19 mircea_popescu: ah yeah, it's a dead site.

00:03:37 mircea_popescu: basically, they claim 3mn users but from what i've seen it's < 1% eligible womenz, nominally

00:03:47 mircea_popescu: out of which, <1% are active to any reasonable degree.

00:03:59 mircea_popescu: basically... fetlife is the size of my 3rd degree social circle.

00:15:08 mircea_popescu: davout got the job btw ? :D

00:29:14 BingoBoingo: ^Oh more scoopbot drama, quitting already?

01:43:09 trinque: williamdunne: ey yo, your bot died

01:56:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39944 @ 0.00030151 = 12.0435 BTC [+] {2}

02:30:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65250 @ 0.00029709 = 19.3851 BTC [-]

03:22:57 trinque: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/23/drone-strike-al-qaida-targets-white-house << pretty damn amusing word choice in the URL if you ask me

03:22:58 assbot: White House admits: we didn't know who drone strike was aiming to kill | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1OMMsyv )

03:28:13 decimation: asciilifeform: did you enjoy your tour through central american airports?

03:41:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73420 @ 0.00030194 = 22.1684 BTC [+] {2}

03:46:20 decimation: http://joi.ito.com/weblog/2014/09/01/shenzhen-trip-r.html

03:46:21 assbot: Shenzhen trip report - visiting the world's manufacturing ecosystem - Joi Ito's Web ... ( http://bit.ly/1OMPuTq )

03:46:32 decimation: "While intellectual property seems to be mostly ignored, tradecraft and trade secrets seem to be shared selectively in a complex network of family, friends and trusted colleagues. "

03:47:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00030155 = 2.337 BTC [-]

03:54:23 decimation: that's all folks

04:32:26 asciilifeform: decimation> asciilifeform: did you enjoy your tour through central american airports? << ahmhahahahah.

04:32:42 *: asciilifeform will probably pass on Spam Air next go around

04:34:02 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109016 <<< lol no

04:34:02 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 00:15:08; mircea_popescu: davout got the job btw ? :D

04:34:38 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108862 << l0l, where ?

04:34:38 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 23:04:57; ben_cash: i finally found the pet who wanted to come home

04:35:24 davout: their latest solution "check the referer herp derp" leaves me without words

04:36:26 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108229 <<< not sure if such a thing even exists, in the same way there's no average value for a chaotic scalar variable

04:36:26 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 15:41:28; trinque: ben_vulpes: it is currently unknown what an appropriate blocksize would be

04:37:07 asciilifeform: what's next, we can't pick an optimal mains voltage ?

04:41:45 davout: if we assume it exists, how do would the value even be determined?

04:41:50 davout: s/do//

04:47:15 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108668 <<< i'll come

04:47:15 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 21:38:54; fluffypony: btw for any b-a'ers in Europe I'm going to be there for the next month, would love to meet up, or you could come to one of the Monero meetups I'll be presenting at (Brussels on May 19th, Paris on May 21st, Berlin on May 24th) or else I'll be presenting at Bitcoinference in Amsterdam on May 30/31

04:47:51 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108717 <<< as long as it is the embrace, extend, extinguish kind of embrace...

04:47:51 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 22:01:31; fluffypony: but he does firmly believe in *embracing regulation* before it cometh

04:48:35 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108851 <<< until they relaod the page to clear the referer herp derp

04:48:35 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 23:00:51; mircea_popescu: "@FLAdmin: Step 1 is to disallow incoming traffic from the fraudsters domain (23.235.235.243). This prevents people from using the hyperlinks on his page."

05:12:35 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108536 <<< not always, it isn't really useful in most cases for your VARCHAR(255) to be aware of what the verb is your sentence

05:12:35 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 19:15:18; trinque: your data storing thing should be aware of structure

05:13:04 trinque: varchar(255) not null is structure

05:15:14 trinque: davout: who said a database needed to parse english?

05:15:32 trinque: might be nice if it inforced x always has a y

05:15:45 trinque: and an x is always (x1 x2 x3 x4)

05:18:37 davout: well, you, just pushing that to the extreme to show that, even though i hardly ever use it, this unstructured nosql approach sometimes is useful, and isn't *inherently* evil like you seem to imply

05:19:46 trinque: davout: to be aware of what the verb is your sentence <<

05:20:00 trinque: I'm far too sleepy to be calling things evil, don't see that anywhere

05:21:05 davout: iirc you were discussing some message store thing with $too_lazy_to_fish_in_logs

05:24:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00030271 = 6.5385 BTC [+] {2}

05:25:56 trinque: davout: one the one hand there's a discussion of the merits of using relational modeling to represent concepts

05:26:05 trinque: on the other, what's done in a production web system

05:26:10 trinque: I'm too tired for that one at the moment.

06:06:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00030155 = 2.4727 BTC [-]

06:54:39 fluffypony: davout: ok cool, the Paris meetup will probably be at the Mozilla offices, I'll confirm closer o the time

07:07:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00030275 = 6.6302 BTC [+]

07:39:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50200 @ 0.0003033 = 15.2257 BTC [+] {2}

08:06:51 mats: AMZN surges and a winner is me http://www.businessinsider.com/aws-earns-1-billion-a-year-on-6-billion-in-profit-2015-4

08:06:52 assbot: AWS earns $1 billion a year on $6 billion in profit - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1IPw1zy )

08:15:24 williamdunne: Wait what?

08:15:30 williamdunne: How does that work

08:16:11 williamdunne: trinque: What has happened to him?

08:16:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11127 @ 0.00029975 = 3.3353 BTC [-]

08:18:03 williamdunne: !s scoopbot_revived

08:18:04 assbot: 18 results for 'scoopbot_revived' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=scoopbot_revived

08:35:10 williamdunne: Scoopbot has resurfaced, https error came up which didn't have any error handling.

08:53:52 williamdunne: !s btcalpha.com

08:53:53 assbot: 115 results for 'btcalpha.com' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=btcalpha.com

08:54:27 williamdunne: mike_c: Awesome WoT browser. Very pretty.

09:54:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9939 @ 0.00028901 = 2.8725 BTC [-]

09:55:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74165 @ 0.00028438 = 21.091 BTC [-] {3}

09:56:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00027827 = 4.1184 BTC [-]

10:13:02 williamdunne: https://twitter.com/pwuille/status/591527686117466113

10:13:19 assbot: /orionwl just merged pruning support in /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hash Core! Run a (no wallet) full node with 1.3 GB storage. Thanks to all who contributed.

10:14:31 BingoBoingo: Yes, let's make syncing even more of a pain

10:17:23 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: It could cause some people to start running full nodes who weren't otherwise, don't think it will make a huge difference

10:17:52 BingoBoingo: Nodes, maybe. Full, not at all.

10:18:03 williamdunne: Sorry, you're right

10:18:05 williamdunne: But yes

10:18:19 williamdunne: I can't imagine it will remove many full nodes, just add some nodes

10:18:38 williamdunne: And syncing won't be too effected with headers first, although full sync I guess could take a little longer

10:19:43 BingoBoingo: Well, a headers first version has already been released

10:21:02 williamdunne: Yeah, so they'll both be in the same version together so not really an issue

10:21:13 williamdunne: Although I could be wrong

10:21:15 williamdunne: Just a hunch

10:30:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00027787 = 4.4598 BTC [-]

11:08:45 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

11:08:49 gribble: Current Blocks: 353489 | Current Difficulty: 4.761056451347126E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 354815 | Next Difficulty In: 1326 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 34 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48597211308.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 2.07233

11:21:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109021 << yeah and im sure it's accidental.

11:21:55 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 03:22:57; trinque: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/23/drone-strike-al-qaida-targets-white-house << pretty damn amusing word choice in the URL if you ask me

11:22:24 jurov: intentionally accidental

11:23:28 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [04:33] http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108862 << l0l, where ? la poesia

11:23:28 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 23:04:57; ben_cash: i finally found the pet who wanted to come home

11:24:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109027 << eeexactly.

11:24:30 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 03:46:32; decimation: "While intellectual property seems to be mostly ignored, tradecraft and trade secrets seem to be shared selectively in a complex network of family, friends and trusted colleagues. "

11:24:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109036 << they actually implemented that ?

11:24:58 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 04:35:24; davout: their latest solution "check the referer herp derp" leaves me without words

11:27:18 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109039 << seems to me it's more like "we pick an optimal electron repose energy"

11:27:18 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 04:37:07; asciilifeform: what's next, we can't pick an optimal mains voltage ?

11:27:36 mircea_popescu: which you know... if they could be made differently more people would have access to electrons!

11:29:52 mircea_popescu: aaand wd mats!

11:31:11 mircea_popescu: mike_c http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/ << dat shit's the tits, it has earned a spot in my "always on" list of tabs. and not even that far down the list, either!

11:31:12 assbot: WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1aXLcek )

11:31:20 mircea_popescu: thanks and love!

11:31:25 mircea_popescu: !rated mike_c

11:31:25 assbot: You rated user mike_c on 25-Jun-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: We're partners in WoL. He also runs btcalpha.com, which is a standard for Bitcoin reporting..

11:32:00 mircea_popescu: !rate mike_c 4 He's been doing cool shit for years.

11:32:00 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/2d3f1bc51307ac8f

11:32:21 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mike_c.4:653bdc8294b5de053f1d44a45f0cee61dd1fa55e80c9fddf919787223bc8fbb2

11:32:21 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mike_c from 3 to 4 with note: He's been doing cool shit for years.

11:33:59 mircea_popescu: mike_c can it has anchor on "Ratings sent" and "ratings received" ?

11:36:51 mircea_popescu: ;;seen dub

11:36:52 gribble: dub was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 14 weeks, 1 day, 14 hours, 38 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <dub> thats an interesting one for france given cambodia

11:37:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29346 @ 0.00027787 = 8.1544 BTC [-]

11:38:09 williamdunne: !rate mike_c 1 WoT on btcalpha

11:38:09 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/42b58498f085ed27

11:38:44 williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.mike_c.1:f1e4a31471dbf17719c015bd64bcb65b4ac54604bfd41508506cfa2e782ffc64

11:38:44 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mike_c with note: WoT on btcalpha

11:45:02 mircea_popescu: ;;seen diametric

11:45:02 gribble: diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 6 days, 14 hours, 44 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <diametric> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/04/10/1541258/florida-teen-charged-with-felony-hacking-for-changing-desktop-wallpaper

11:51:48 mircea_popescu: ;;seen fabianb

11:51:48 gribble: fabianb was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 35 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <FabianB> not down but very slow it seems

11:54:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46904 @ 0.00028681 = 13.4525 BTC [+]

12:08:08 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c other than anchors : can tables be sorted ? (yes it can, <script src="http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/sorttable.js"/script in the head and then class="sortable" in the table)

12:08:09 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:11:26 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c also, any idea why some rating comments appear empty ?

12:11:26 gribble: The operation succeeded.

12:14:04 mircea_popescu: that whole wot svg is under 1mb even. great.

12:14:58 mircea_popescu: !up dub

12:15:04 dub: hi2u

12:15:10 mircea_popescu: you know you can self up

12:15:36 dub: my key is secured by lazy

12:15:45 mircea_popescu: lol

12:16:25 dub: how rolls?

12:16:47 mircea_popescu: not bad, not bad. conference last week, fetlife this week...

12:16:47 scoopbot_revived: News! A new Lordship List ? URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/a-new-lordship-list/

12:16:49 assbot: Page not found on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HzA6cq )

12:17:12 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla any idea why assbot keeps finding pages not found ? adds something after url maybe ?

12:17:45 mircea_popescu: oh uses direct ip reference.

12:18:30 jurov: no http/1.1-compatible library is good enough for assbot

12:18:58 mircea_popescu: im prolly the culprit here actually.

12:19:13 jurov: lol how so?

12:19:18 dub: wondered when I would fall off the list

12:19:39 mircea_popescu: jurov i vaguely recall asking kako to reference by ip at some point

12:19:49 mircea_popescu: dub also secured by lazy!

12:20:53 dub: hey now! meatspace can be busy

12:21:22 mircea_popescu: that it can.

12:22:08 mircea_popescu: ahhh it's nice to have the wot website back!

12:28:57 williamdunne: Its pretty, too

12:30:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109086 << that's the problem, it will make people think they';re running nodes who aren't.

12:30:38 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 10:18:03; williamdunne: Sorry, you're right

12:31:16 mircea_popescu: but yes, broadly speaking the efforts of power rangers are irrelevant to bitcoin.

12:31:31 mircea_popescu: so dun much matter one way or teh other.

12:31:59 williamdunne: Personally I reckon it'll just have more people running semi-nodes, rather than less people running full

12:32:17 williamdunne: Especially as the blockchain is starting to get too big for cheap VPS systems used for most services

12:32:29 mircea_popescu: i imagine what it'll actually lead to is more people with full nodes running longer shitlists of AOL type nodes.

12:32:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59600 @ 0.00027851 = 16.5992 BTC [-]

12:32:38 BingoBoingo: I really fail to see much difference between the pruning nodes and the pseudo-nodes

12:33:00 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well that may be because there isn't one.

12:33:22 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Pruning nodes can still validate transactions with recent inputs can they not? Or do they store all inputs. Need to read how it works

12:33:27 williamdunne: *all unspent outputs

12:34:05 williamdunne: Whereas pseudo-nodes just tell everyone everything

12:34:24 mircea_popescu: 'pruning' offers a guarantee that the node won't be able to offer you a block which contains all spent outputs.

12:34:25 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Problem isn't the unspent tx set, it is the blocks

12:34:33 mircea_popescu: which is how it saves space.

12:34:55 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I need to read up on it first before commenting

12:35:24 BingoBoingo: It's hard enough to find sync worthy nodes in the wild as is

12:35:24 mircea_popescu: there isn't anything particularly wrong with the approach, much like there isn't anything wrong with holding up a sign, or drinking a cup of coffee.

12:35:41 mircea_popescu: once people involved start imagining that holding up signs / drinking coffee is relevant to bitcoin, they have somewhat of a problem

12:35:55 mircea_popescu: but considering the rest of the problems they have, to them it's minor, and to us... well we didn't care before, either.

12:39:04 williamdunne: Okay, so from a little reading it does seem that they keep the full unspent TX set. While they can't provide all the blocks to someone who wants everything from the genesis it does seem like a pretty big improvement to me - should see a lot more verifying nodes - no?

12:39:28 mircea_popescu: verifying nodes, yes.

12:39:45 mircea_popescu: this is not particularly useful tho, once you have 10 nodes doing verification, it's done. what's X gonna find that Y does not ?

12:39:51 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the important function of nodes is storage.

12:40:19 williamdunne: Verifying nodes are good for those that care about accepting unconfirmed tx/s IIRC

12:40:34 mircea_popescu: it's the usg playbook : give more people the illusion of participation, so you can take more control of the underlying processes.

12:40:56 mircea_popescu: williamdunne explain how ? verification doesn't happen faster for having more nodes doing it.

12:41:03 mircea_popescu: it may happen closer to you geographically, but w/e.

12:41:18 williamdunne: Something to do with propogation

12:41:27 mircea_popescu: at best a log.

12:41:58 mircea_popescu: but people who actually care about 0tx are currently in practice and are in theory much better served by just keeping vpn links to actual main nodes.

12:42:42 williamdunne: Thats what most of them do anyway, no? i.e in Electrum

12:42:59 mircea_popescu: prolly.

12:43:07 williamdunne: Seems like it can only be beneficial if it moves some away from Electrum and onto verifying nodes

12:43:20 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Electrum just does http/TLS

12:43:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, it's a toy, like any other. people learning and kids are more than welcome to their fun, what.

12:43:37 jurov: no it uses stratum/ssl but that's a tech detail

12:43:58 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: They connect to a single node, who you would assume is fairly well connected

12:44:15 BingoBoingo: ty jurov

12:45:29 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: I really don't see how people could use electrum without their own node/server (hug-e pain)

12:46:00 mircea_popescu: btw, mod6, ben_vulpes, erryone : <scoopbot_revived> News! A new Lordship List ? URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/a-new-lordship-list/

12:46:00 assbot: Page not found on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HzA6cq )

12:46:01 mircea_popescu: if comments etc.

12:46:46 jurov: BingoBoingo: if you don't mind server knowing your addresses, then it's fine. otherwise, i agree

12:48:16 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: It used to be okay, I wouldn't want to use it now but did its job fine

12:48:34 jurov: what changed?

12:49:25 BingoBoingo: jurov: Yeah. Then there's public servers that just suck. Laggy, don't always send updates, potential chance they could begin lying.

12:49:58 williamdunne: I'll be on that list someday :'(

12:50:50 jurov: yes, bitcoin node using real database is needed... then electrum server would only need to add its indexes

12:51:20 mircea_popescu: williamdunne certainly if you keep going at the present rate o.O

12:51:23 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Yeah, I originally quit using them because I could never connect

12:51:31 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I have no intention of slowing down

12:53:21 williamdunne: !s summary?

12:53:22 assbot: 259 results for 'summary?' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=summary%3F

12:54:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36142 @ 0.00028198 = 10.1913 BTC [+] {2}

12:54:17 kakobrekla: <scoopbot_revived> News! A new Lordship List ? URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/a-new-lordship-list/

12:54:17 assbot: A new Lordship List ? on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcCGVC )

12:54:32 williamdunne: Quick fix

12:54:51 mircea_popescu: yay ty kako

13:00:48 BingoBoingo: ty kakobrekla http://www.picturesdepot.com/photo/p/pacman_cookies-4127.jpg

13:00:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcDFFl )

13:02:28 mircea_popescu: " the line to get on the elevator was a good hour long."

13:02:30 mircea_popescu: holy shit.

13:02:41 mircea_popescu: who, for what reason, would ever put themselves in this situation ?

13:06:45 kakobrekla: !gettrust links to mikes creation now

13:06:45 assbot: links and to are not registered in WoT.

13:07:21 mircea_popescu: !gettrust kakobrekla

13:07:23 assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user kakobrekla: Level 1: 5, Level 2: 60 via 34 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mircea_popescu&to=kakobrekla | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/kakobrekla/

13:07:23 williamdunne: 1/10

13:07:29 williamdunne: 10/10

13:07:32 mircea_popescu: epic.

13:07:48 mircea_popescu: -5 anduck 1.0 74 83 Dec. 22, 2014 idiot. does not understand how bitcoin works.

13:07:49 mircea_popescu: lawl

13:12:19 williamdunne: !bitcoin-otc fork

13:12:26 williamdunne: !s bitcoin-otc fork

13:12:26 assbot: 0 results for 'bitcoin-otc fork' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitcoin-otc+fork

13:12:31 williamdunne: !s fork

13:12:32 assbot: 686 results for 'fork' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fork

13:13:30 mircea_popescu: what are you looking for ?

13:14:14 williamdunne: The reason behind forking from bitcoin-otc

13:14:39 williamdunne: Something about downtime and a vulnerability is what I read on btcalpha but not much detail as to exactly what

13:15:14 mircea_popescu: gribble went down at some point. this is rare, but whatever, happens. nanotube was also unresponsive. after a few days in this position assbot got enabled to wot

13:15:35 mircea_popescu: turns out the guy was just traveling at the time (was right around the new year).

13:18:02 williamdunne: Ah, so sort of just bad luck?

13:18:27 mircea_popescu: well at that time you couldn't tell what happened. for all you know, nano was usg-kidnapped.

13:18:40 mircea_popescu: wot is a crucial bit of infrastructure, and so it's watched and protected accordingly.

13:18:50 williamdunne: It'd be nice if they could connect, especially as they can still verify the signatures on each.

13:18:51 williamdunne: Yeah I understand why it was done - not criticizing it at all

13:19:00 mircea_popescu: in fairness, prolly a lot more crucial here than in -otc, so some sort of decoupling was probably unavoidable.

13:19:42 mircea_popescu: williamdunne there was some discussion re making them communicate, but no concrete steps towards gribble becoming able to sign its stuff so far.

13:19:47 mircea_popescu: otherwise it could probably happen in a day.

13:20:05 williamdunne: Yeah not exactly a big software job. Can be done in a few hours if that

13:20:44 mircea_popescu: what i imagine is the case is - nano was planning to make an upgraded gribble for what, coupla years now. he's probably thinking to have it done in one piece.

13:21:14 mircea_popescu: speculating because well, never heard anything specific on the topic.

13:21:46 williamdunne: Kinda pathetic if you've been intending to do something for a couple of years and it still hasn't happened (assuming the only constraint is time)

13:22:10 mircea_popescu: to quote dub, "meatspace can be busy"

13:22:24 mircea_popescu: besides, erryone gets to set their own priorities and so on.

13:23:24 williamdunne: Sure, but even the bottom of my list can expect to be done within 6 months

13:23:33 williamdunne: Maybe I'm just being unfair

13:23:35 mircea_popescu: what can i tell ya.

13:26:04 BingoBoingo: list bottoms tend to be downwardly mobile

13:30:08 scoopbot_revived: News! New Web of Trust Web Explorer URL: http://qntra.net/2015/04/new-web-of-trust-web-explorer/

13:30:09 assbot: New Web of Trust Web Explorer | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcIjmA )

13:32:01 pete_dushenski: goooood morning!

13:32:26 pete_dushenski: let's see if this testpost works on scoopbot_revived...

13:32:59 williamdunne: I'll be happy to fix it if it doesn't

13:33:00 scoopbot_revived: News! scoopbot_revived testpost URL: http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/24/scoopbot_revived-testpost/

13:33:01 assbot: scoopbot_revived testpost | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1bAyWSk )

13:33:11 williamdunne: Lol, good timing

13:33:50 pete_dushenski: beautiful. so, so beautiful.

13:33:51 mircea_popescu: check it out pete_dushenski !

13:34:01 mircea_popescu: poor guy was belabouring with this for months.

13:34:41 pete_dushenski: lol you dun understand how sad i was when i first scanned the logs for the post i published early early this morning/late last night... and it wasn't there

13:34:53 pete_dushenski: but williamdunne, you did it. wd!

13:35:50 williamdunne: Thank you very much :)

13:36:09 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/24/narrated-video-of-the-poem-stop-all-the-clocks-again/ << for mircea_popescu and whoever else likes his poetry but wonders how it'd sound spoken by yours truly

13:36:10 assbot: Narrated video of the poem ‘Stop all the clocks (again)’ | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1bAzA2b )

13:36:12 williamdunne: Yeah it broke this morning because there was some error checking missing and btctrading broke it

13:36:24 pete_dushenski: !gettrust williamdunne

13:36:25 assbot: Trust relationship from user pete_dushenski to user williamdunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=pete_dushenski&to=williamdunne | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/williamdunne/

13:36:41 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Oh, and mike did a new trust thingy

13:36:44 pete_dushenski: ^heh btcalpha link

13:36:53 mircea_popescu: "Your browser does not currently recognize any of the video formats available. Click here to visit our frequently asked questions about HTML5 video."

13:36:56 mircea_popescu: a sadness is me!

13:37:19 pete_dushenski: negro please!

13:37:33 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: you can't watch html5 video?

13:37:36 pete_dushenski: flash... i get

13:37:39 mircea_popescu: i can, this isn't.

13:37:51 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski also in the news, you didn't send a pingback.

13:40:08 pete_dushenski: well trackbacks, but i know what you mean. the things are borked

13:40:32 pete_dushenski: i've received the last few from qntra, but missed a few before that..

13:40:52 pete_dushenski: pretty sure the last one from fraudsters didn't come through

13:41:10 mircea_popescu: lemme run that script thingee

13:41:41 pete_dushenski: i know for a fact that you linked to http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/30/how-to-become-a-good-poker-player-translated/

13:41:43 assbot: How to become a good poker player, translated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcKq9Y )

13:42:06 pete_dushenski: improving upon my meagre translation and whatnot

13:43:43 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on " BTC to top $350 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1135/ Odds: 32(Y):68(N) by coin, 32(Y):68(N) by weight. Total bet: 15.89313103 BTC. Current weight: 94,793.

13:50:04 pete_dushenski: k, this video is getting moved over to vimeo.

13:50:18 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i got to it meanwjilr

13:50:22 mircea_popescu: manwhile*

13:50:51 pete_dushenski: ah different browser ?

13:51:10 jurov: http://www.coindesk.com/sec-bitcoin-exchange-60000-securities-violations/ burnside got burned

13:51:10 assbot: SEC Fines Defunct Bitcoin Exchange Operator $68,000 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcLQkO )

13:51:47 mircea_popescu: so this is why 100k ?

13:52:09 mircea_popescu: "The issuers paid 11,450 LTC and 210 BTC in listing fees, respectively."

13:52:10 mircea_popescu: orly.

13:53:54 jurov: ;;seen burnside

13:53:54 gribble: burnside was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 39 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 18 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <burnside> lol

13:54:06 mircea_popescu: " and in a memorable email exchange said it was investigating exchange MPEx owner Mircea Popescu over the sale of popular gambling site SatoshiDICE for over $11.5m in bitcoin."

13:54:10 mircea_popescu: umm... it said that ?!

13:54:56 mircea_popescu: ;;seen justusranvier

13:54:57 gribble: justusranvier was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 28 weeks, 1 day, 13 hours, 57 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <justusranvier> On the plus side, this arrangement means I can run Skype in a virtualized sandbox that's far away from my real desktop

13:56:12 BingoBoingo: lol http://qntra.net/2014/12/ethan-burnside-fined-by-sec/

13:56:13 assbot: Ethan Burnside Fined By SEC | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcMuyV )

13:57:26 williamdunne: I still don;t understand who the hell would launch that from inside the US? Like srsly. Its not even opsec at this point, its just about not being goddam mentally handicapped

13:57:42 pete_dushenski: heh.

13:58:12 mircea_popescu: the guy had issues. if you think you can swallow a tractor, then by the same head you will probably also think you can swallow it underwater.

13:58:28 mircea_popescu: it's this entire "empowerment" idiocy going around the english space these decades.

13:58:41 williamdunne: Thats a great analogy. I like that.

13:58:47 williamdunne: "I can do anything if I put my mind to it"

13:59:04 williamdunne: Then again, thats kinda hypocritical because I treat my own aspirations with that mentality

13:59:44 mike_c: mircea_popescu: yes, I'll add JS sorting to the tables that fit on a page.

14:00:00 mike_c: re: empty comments, some ratings don't have a comment.

14:00:03 mircea_popescu: mike_c from experience, even tables with > 10k entries are sortable. just takes a sec.

14:00:12 mircea_popescu: but it only engages if someone clicks a header. so pretty safe.

14:01:30 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-v/ << it's deployed there for instance if you wanna play with it.

14:01:32 assbot: The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume V on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcNaEz )

14:01:32 mike_c: yeah. for the main table (7500 users), I'll make a separate page with the whole list.

14:02:03 pete_dushenski: ;;seen artifexd

14:02:04 gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 15 hours, 45 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.

14:02:38 pete_dushenski: ah good.

14:02:43 mircea_popescu: that happens to be 7015 rows

14:05:25 mats: https://developers.yubico.com/ykneo-openpgp/SecurityAdvisory%202015-04-14.html

14:05:26 assbot: SecurityAdvisory 2015-04-14 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcNGSW )

14:05:55 pete_dushenski: lol nfc

14:06:03 mats: > Yubikey NEO (JavaCard OpenPGP) private key operations can be accessed without PIN

14:07:19 mircea_popescu: heh

14:07:38 mircea_popescu: well if they make it so it can also be accessed without a card, i'm probably getting an infinity of them.

14:08:10 BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/33mqle/charlie_shrem_gets_2_years_in_prison_for_selling/cqmhr0m

14:08:12 assbot: reddit_sucks2 comments on Charlie Shrem gets 2 years in prison for selling bitcoins while former CIA director gets 2 years probation for telling a whore national security secrets. ... ( http://bit.ly/1d99XG8 )

14:09:39 mircea_popescu: doesn't this disparity seem scandalous ? whence the gall to "punish" a cia boss.

14:10:04 mircea_popescu: i'd be seriously insulted if i actually were to take the us seriously.

14:11:01 mircea_popescu: but in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/13a65924dd40031e1bfa04f4ca4d8bef/tumblr_n0l44cfPpU1revz5to3_500.gif

14:11:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcOvuS )

14:11:11 BingoBoingo: I'm just surprised at the outrage over calling a woman who traded sex for advantage an applicable label

14:12:43 mircea_popescu: i think the applicable label is "socialite"

14:16:20 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: so... trackback ? thoughts on poem narration ?

14:16:28 BingoBoingo: Nah, that was the other mistress. MistressLeak lack the appropriate social background

14:21:29 williamdunne: Not sure what that guy thinks he is doing in the background

14:34:17 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski well it sounds just like a pete d!

14:34:20 mircea_popescu: !up austeritysucks

14:34:44 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski and i resent trackbacks ten minutes ago or os.

14:35:16 pete_dushenski: lol there's no masking the bare fact that my voice is... my voice.

14:35:28 pete_dushenski: in any event, i was reasonably pleased with the result.

14:35:48 pete_dushenski: some of the flows in that poem were awkward to say the least

14:36:22 pete_dushenski: 'every single feather of each single dove' wants to be 'every single feather of every single dove'

14:38:51 mircea_popescu: it's made like a gauntlet for the reader, that's for sure.

14:38:59 mircea_popescu: also gl with stuff like sea you see and so on.

14:39:03 mircea_popescu: thing's spiked all the way.

14:43:08 pete_dushenski: sea you see wasn't bad at all, i quite liked that line

14:43:32 pete_dushenski: even 'gloomly', though unusual, works

14:44:08 pete_dushenski: the third and fourth stanzas tripped me up the most

14:44:47 BingoBoingo: Oh, mike_c has a choice, to feel prouds or shames https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/33pn2t/new_bitcoin_web_of_trust_explorer/

14:44:49 assbot: New Bitcoin Web of Trust Explorer : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pv2rDy )

14:52:58 mike_c: uh oh, btcalpha has officially jumped the shark now :)

14:57:54 BingoBoingo: Seriously, mike_c You almist might have to get back to monthly blogging. Maybe even speed up to weekly

14:59:22 mike_c: yeah, I got to get back to it.

15:00:32 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: no cloak on your nick eh.

15:01:11 williamdunne: Eh, not too concerned about it

15:02:38 Pierre_Rochard: williamdunne: I had to get one when my home IP address started getting DDOSed

15:03:05 williamdunne: If that happens I'll go for it, retroactively though. It'd be an inconvenience at most

15:39:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 900 @ 0.00202686 = 1.8242 BTC [+] {13}

15:58:46 mats: AMZN ticker is ridiculous

16:00:45 pete_dushenski: +15%. whoa.

16:00:47 mats: closed yesterday at 390 with uncertainty premium due to earnings report, opens at 440

16:05:06 funkenstein_: people love the unverifiable numbers they reported i guess

16:06:17 pete_dushenski: 'people'

16:06:44 funkenstein_: i should take that back, I have no clue who the relevant market makers are here

16:12:06 pete_dushenski: figure it's banks and whatever funds.

16:12:23 mats: i started buying AMZN after it became clear they had intentions of becoming a USG contractor

16:13:13 pete_dushenski: well played. when was this ?

16:13:21 pete_dushenski: http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/here-are-the-most-cringeworthy-chat-message-that-landed-deutsche-bank-with-a-record-us2-5b-fine << speaking of market makers

16:13:23 assbot: Here are the most cringeworthy chat messages that landed Deutsche Bank with a US$2.5B rate-rigging fine | Financial Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gr3nHD )

16:14:16 pete_dushenski: "COULD WE PLS HAVE A LOW 6MTH FIX TODAY OLD BEAN?"

16:15:21 mats: http://fcw.com/articles/2013/03/18/amazon-cia-cloud.aspx

16:15:22 assbot: Amazon and CIA ink cloud deal -- FCW ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gr3PFO )

16:16:03 williamdunne: Nice to see some civility in the markets

16:16:18 Pierre_Rochard: what’s cringeworthy about those chat messages?

16:16:52 williamdunne: I suppose the "cringe" is about how brazen it was

16:17:01 williamdunne: Like "ooohhh and theres 2.5b gone"

16:17:17 williamdunne: "There is the near entirety of bitcoin's market cap gone"

16:17:54 Pierre_Rochard: also, traders getting blamed for poorly designed “market” mechanisms… I liken it to the stanford prison experiment - what exactly were you expecting?

16:18:31 pete_dushenski: 'don't blame the bankers/jooz'

16:18:55 pete_dushenski: mats: ah wd.

16:18:57 williamdunne: What do "jooz" have to do with it?

16:19:15 pete_dushenski: scapegoat par excellence ?

16:19:16 williamdunne: "COULD WE PLS HAVE A LOW 6MTH FIX TODAY OLD YID?"

16:19:52 Pierre_Rochard: well - some of the execs who designed this certainly deserve blame, some of which may coincidentally be bankers/jooz… all of them likely long retired/dead

16:20:42 Pierre_Rochard: but really I’d cast blame on the lemmings who use LIBOR for everything and anything

16:23:14 pete_dushenski: not sure how much of a coincidence it is that those in positions of influence, who needed to be leveraged by the state and 'the consumers who've come to expect', would be bankers and/or jooz

16:23:48 pete_dushenski: so the state leveraged those of influence, and were leveraged in turn

16:24:01 pete_dushenski: and both grew larger. and larger.

16:24:31 pete_dushenski: and the incentives inherent in large organisations became manifest until we arrived here.

16:32:17 *: asciilifeform finally up

16:33:14 Pierre_Rochard: my point was only that traders gonna trade. The real cringeworthiness happened in 1984 when some old beans decided this was an acceptable way of doing business

16:33:17 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Is it not generally accepted that banking/law etc is engrained into Jewish culture

16:34:17 asciilifeform: !rated chetty

16:34:17 assbot: You have not rated chetty.

16:34:29 Pierre_Rochard: !rated danielpbarron

16:34:29 assbot: You rated user danielpbarron on 07-Oct-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: I know my tweets are good when he favorites them https://twitter.com/danielpbarron.

16:34:55 asciilifeform: !rate chetty 1 met in the flesh; guiding light from beyond the barbed wire

16:34:55 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8338db47fcc098c8

16:35:07 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: if it is, where would that leave us ?

16:35:11 Pierre_Rochard: !unrate danielpbarron

16:35:11 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/89779f161317ce35

16:35:29 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.chetty.1:046703414245aad3e18a075c8514985e26fe218339267c14bcd33c90d0695c9f

16:35:29 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for chetty with note: met in the flesh; guiding light from beyond the barbed wire

16:36:35 asciilifeform: !rated mike_c

16:36:35 assbot: You rated user mike_c on 22-Apr-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: live human, cellular automata, jolly good fellow.

16:36:38 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Exactly where we are now

16:37:36 asciilifeform: !rate mike_c 4 expert infrastructural welder, skeptical voice, jolly good fella. met in the flesh.

16:37:36 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a90d420adc292561

16:38:04 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mike_c.4:67396ced34df1362320457c1d7615e7e63fa9fc9d8b47b75174cedafd102cecd

16:38:04 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mike_c from 3 to 4 with note: expert infrastructural welder, skeptical voice, jolly good fella. met in the flesh.

16:38:28 asciilifeform: !rated thickasthieves

16:38:28 assbot: You rated user thickasthieves on 22-Apr-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: live human, ate synthetic food, jolly good fella.

16:38:35 asciilifeform: !unrate thickasthieves

16:38:35 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/94de203d7844733d

16:38:58 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: which is where ?

16:39:01 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.unrate.thickasthieves:c3dc04a261e663c3af90252b49e5fbaf514381fab2eb960c377197f5aa56edbf

16:39:02 assbot: Successfully unrated thickasthieves

16:39:57 asciilifeform: !rated mod6

16:39:57 assbot: You have not rated mod6.

16:39:58 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: A world where Jews are over-represented in banking and law?

16:40:08 pete_dushenski: !unrate thickasthieves

16:40:08 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8821fa713e54d102

16:40:54 pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.unrate.thickasthieves:244008f61896ead038af8a3a566dde9ef6f398272983799b3473b48e56530279

16:40:54 assbot: Successfully unrated thickasthieves

16:40:54 asciilifeform: !rate mod6 3 therealbitcoin.org. met in the flesh. jolly good fella.

16:40:54 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/26487e6559408a68

16:41:20 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mod6.3:ce8bb3afba5e21ba6bddb329213ff1d49977669daa30d0920ec86223fbcfafc5

16:41:20 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for mod6 with note: therealbitcoin.org. met in the flesh. jolly good fella.

16:41:25 asciilifeform: !rated ben_vulpes

16:41:25 assbot: You have not rated ben_vulpes.

16:41:32 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: define 'over-represented'. compared to what ? somalis ?

16:41:52 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: The statistical average

16:42:07 asciilifeform: !rate ben_vulpes 3 therealbitcoin.org. met in the flesh. fearless explorer, and jolly good fella.

16:42:07 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/7aefc1bd8fb4c490

16:42:08 williamdunne: Some brutal unrating going on today

16:42:16 BingoBoingo: First adult Joo I met IRL drove choo choo trains

16:42:24 pete_dushenski: !unrate kdomanski

16:42:24 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/be2a109cdcc9cc0e

16:42:35 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.ben_vulpes.3:32b4724e82f1bc0cb91b68f6a7f00c7cd096e80ef2fce9482b4493e0a0d5429d

16:42:36 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for ben_vulpes with note: therealbitcoin.org. met in the flesh. fearless explorer, and jolly good fella.

16:43:16 asciilifeform: !rated mthreat

16:43:16 assbot: You have not rated mthreat.

16:43:39 asciilifeform: !rate mthreat 1 met in the flesh. aeronaut.

16:43:39 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/69e348f7c582485d

16:43:42 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: human skill and intelligence aren't on a gaussian distribution. average is meaningless in this context and by extension any relationship to it.

16:44:07 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mthreat.1:6c3302cbf0bfa3012004a0263dfad808267b88a9388ed23d27af1f42bc391e9d

16:44:07 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mthreat with note: met in the flesh. aeronaut.

16:44:11 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Doesn't seem irrelevant when comparing subsets of the wider context

16:44:25 pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.unrate.kdomanski:e33a49671278d1971aebe0412dc671d6e68df76818bbcedc75109ff16311dc31

16:44:25 assbot: Successfully unrated kdomanski

16:44:49 asciilifeform: !rated hanbot

16:44:49 assbot: You rated user hanbot on 24-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: had the honour of meeting this user in person..

16:45:47 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: that's like saying that crack cocaine makes a lot of sense when you're living among homeless people in dumpsters.

16:45:52 asciilifeform: !rate hanbot 3 had the honour of meeting in the flesh. author of 'shall be delivered.' guiding light from beyond the barbed wire.

16:45:52 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/35b564ab447d2ec4

16:46:07 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: you have no business over there in the first place

16:46:22 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.hanbot.3:dcde945021741f2ba77ed99267bb2f5c8d12bc90b0273c7da057d12b15c7b359

16:46:22 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for hanbot from 1 to 3 with note: had the honour of meeting in the flesh. author of 'shall be delivered.' guiding light from beyond the barbed wire.

16:46:43 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: I'm not suggesting I have any issue with it, if thats what you mean

16:46:50 asciilifeform: !rated davout

16:46:50 assbot: You rated user davout on 22-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: human!.

16:47:53 pete_dushenski: williamdunne: not at all. and nor do i. just that the context has never and will never be evenly distributed. so no averages. so no predictions. no 'over-represented'

16:47:53 asciilifeform: !rate davout 2 met in the flesh. fearless French aeronaut.

16:47:53 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ddc0ccc53fe48052

16:48:20 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.davout.2:6a345f7f1cbe1ea974f429657d78b525dddfe96d1a4b0a670e85117746d6bdd1

16:48:21 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for davout from 1 to 2 with note: met in the flesh. fearless French aeronaut.

16:49:08 asciilifeform: !unrate xplosionist

16:49:08 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/24aa080efc25dab3

16:49:33 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.unrate.xplosionist:92a5b39e3662ba4d29a176b67e253a134bc06efae576fcdc54f94eb03ece0cc8

16:49:33 assbot: Successfully unrated xplosionist

16:52:22 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: fair nuff'

16:52:29 williamdunne: So whats with all the unrating going on today

16:53:30 pete_dushenski: housecleaning friday!

16:56:32 danielpbarron: pretty user interface is driving adoption!

16:57:45 mike_c: the conference generally sparks a rash of ratings.

16:58:11 Pierre_Rochard: !rated justus_ranvier

16:58:11 assbot: justus_ranvier is not registered in WoT.

16:58:28 Pierre_Rochard: !rated justusranvier

16:58:28 assbot: You have not rated justusranvier.

16:59:32 Pierre_Rochard: !rate justusranvier -1 vociferous big block advocate http://bitcoinism.liberty.me/2015/01/21/economic-fallacies-and-the-block-size-limit-part-1-scarcity/

16:59:32 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/09d2e64b8d80dc27

16:59:36 assbot: Economic Fallacies and the Block Size Limit, part 1: Scarcity - B I T C O I N I S M ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCjVKa )

16:59:43 Pierre_Rochard: !v assbot:Pierre_Rochard.rate.justusranvier.-1:23706dd42fdd40bd55027d8365236059aa61323c45be11d982214cc917178bed

16:59:44 assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for justusranvier with note: vociferous big block advocate http://bitcoinism.liberty.me/2015/01/21/economic-fallacies-and-the-block-size-limit-part-1-scarcity/

17:00:11 asciilifeform: !rated nubbins`

17:00:11 assbot: You have not rated nubbins`.

17:00:32 asciilifeform: !rate nubbins` 1 pogoplug tester for therealbitcoin

17:00:33 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0ce138859ab77604

17:00:49 nubbins`: hi

17:01:00 nubbins`: busy week for me, how was c3?

17:01:06 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.nubbins`.1:ea278f3a78fa685a35a52cb232faff3082b590c8eb754080fd2a5707d082ac2a

17:01:06 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for nubbins` with note: pogoplug tester for therealbitcoin

17:01:17 *: nubbins` received a copyright infringement notice from his ISP on behalf of HBO yesterday

17:01:18 nubbins`: :o

17:01:20 asciilifeform: !rated danielpbarron

17:01:20 assbot: You have not rated danielpbarron.

17:02:05 nubbins`: of note: the text of the notice was PGP-signed

17:02:22 nubbins`: but... gpg: BAD signature from "IP-Echelon Compliance <compliance@ip-echelon.com>"

17:02:35 asciilifeform: !rate danielpbarron 2 pogoplug tester for therealbitcoin. enthusiastic hunter of lamers. plus a player of actual 'sokoban' in meatspace.

17:02:35 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3a3461e6857315dc

17:03:02 danielpbarron: lol

17:03:04 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.danielpbarron.2:cf27f38f38067e4b904cb6e9b5e7e3e02104c0062159295a5ec301cb310c6d1d

17:03:04 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for danielpbarron with note: pogoplug tester for therealbitcoin. enthusiastic hunter of lamers. plus a player of actual 'sokoban' in meatspace.

17:03:04 nubbins`: SOOOOO guess i'm gonna go ahead and ignore

17:03:46 danielpbarron: i had to look that word up. seems to mean "warehouse keeper"

17:03:51 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: i heard about these being sent out. didn't know they came pgp-signed!

17:04:07 nubbins`: well, they come "pgp"-"signed"/

17:04:12 asciilifeform: nubbins`: this is not the first time i recall seeing pgp 'sprayed on for flavour'

17:05:24 nubbins`: asciilifeform unfortunately, sprayed-on PGP indicates to me that this email is fraudulent

17:05:31 nubbins`: so into the trash it goes

17:06:01 nubbins`: and i have explicitly not been notified of any infringement activity

17:06:05 nubbins`: funny how that works?

17:07:10 williamdunne: nubbins`: Wait, did you have to type in the PGP sig?

17:07:26 asciilifeform: nubbins`: out of curiosity, can you post the bad sig ?

17:07:31 asciilifeform: or at least the key fp in it

17:08:12 williamdunne: Oh, was an email

17:08:20 nubbins`: 0xDE4B33712DAACFD6

17:08:46 nubbins`: ^ lelelel there's ONE google result

17:09:25 nubbins`: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xDE4B33712DAACFD6

17:09:26 assbot: Search results for '0xde4b33712daacfd6' ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCmjkf )

17:10:18 nubbins`: aww, they have their own infringement XML schema

17:10:31 nubbins`: http://www.acns.net/v1.2/ACNS2v1_2.xsd

17:10:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCmH2g )

17:11:12 nubbins`: <Severity>Normal</Severity> <<< phew

17:13:05 asciilifeform: !rated assbot

17:13:05 assbot: You have not rated assbot.

17:13:26 williamdunne: !rate assbot 3 can hardly not trust him

17:13:26 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/af51b0b9e3456294

17:13:33 asciilifeform: !rate assbot 10 robot, serves man, never betrayed

17:13:33 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8e1bba4100d4b52f

17:13:55 williamdunne: !v assbot:williamdunne.rate.assbot.3:1643e5a9e9ea73dba0306750a9dbe1479af1afd7370eb6bbfb1ca6cadb8d9050

17:13:56 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for assbot with note: can hardly not trust him

17:13:56 williamdunne:

17:14:09 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.assbot.10:273aa02f30d121e2d6562773762ccd088044111a1e1573f679e9fb66b70a7036

17:14:09 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 10 for assbot with note: robot, serves man, never betrayed

17:14:18 nubbins`: !rate asciilifeform 2 capable wizard, does things

17:14:18 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/837b9f49b2189964

17:14:40 nubbins`: !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.asciilifeform.2:d6bd61a27260f1bbef53b20794d9eba79a899e2052ebb45aebfe9bea45b1937a

17:14:40 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for asciilifeform with note: capable wizard, does things

17:15:04 nubbins`: hm can i see all my rates?

17:15:46 mike_c: http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/

17:15:47 assbot: nubbins` WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCo7cQ )

17:15:54 nubbins`: ty

17:16:05 asciilifeform: mike_c: iirc updated daily ?

17:16:14 mike_c: yes, kako dumps the DB daily and I suck it up.

17:17:02 nubbins`: that's what the lady said to the sailor

17:19:31 asciilifeform: !rated mats

17:19:31 assbot: You rated user mats on 20-Jun-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: temporary voice.

17:19:45 asciilifeform: !rated mats_cd03

17:19:46 assbot: You rated user mats_cd03 on 20-Jun-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: voice.

17:19:51 asciilifeform: !unrate mats_cd03

17:19:51 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/64104cb29a726133

17:20:20 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.unrate.mats_cd03:386beceb2944175602c721e50cee48c148dae9381c54e6f47c558f7c244f7cfb

17:20:20 assbot: Successfully unrated mats_cd03

17:20:39 asciilifeform: !rate mats 2 reverse engineer. historical researcher.

17:20:39 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1cda5c65851ab84e

17:21:04 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mats.2:5f404bc6052f35a444024473404a1140e358a10985cc6e7c503d7948cf5c34b3

17:21:04 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mats from 1 to 2 with note: reverse engineer. historical researcher.

17:21:33 asciilifeform: !rated kakobrekla

17:21:33 assbot: You rated user kakobrekla on 12-Apr-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: maker of high-quality spammicide..

17:21:58 asciilifeform: !rate kakobrekla 4 expert infrastructural welder. holds up the sky.

17:21:58 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a03d7e1cab841363

17:22:26 asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.kakobrekla.4:50aa258661857b212655a2a7bf244cb73922f350e49bc43977fa8e7393792604

17:22:26 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 4 with note: expert infrastructural welder. holds up the sky.

17:23:57 mike_c: hehe. it's kakos all the way down.

17:24:04 mats: pgp sig is SOP for DMCA notices

17:24:22 nubbins`: is it SOP for the sig to be invalid?

17:24:48 mats: happens a lot

17:25:00 *: nubbins` rolls eyes

17:25:09 nubbins`: this is like being arrested by a cop with a tin badge

17:25:50 asciilifeform: cardboard badge.

17:26:02 asciilifeform: cut out of children's magazine

17:29:01 mats: what are you doing to trigger an HBO infringement notice? try to catch some GoT on TPB?

17:32:14 pete_dushenski: wow, even msft +10% today. nasdaqsanity.

17:35:00 funkenstein_: hi nubbins, i am guessing edk2000

17:36:11 Pierre_Rochard: re msft: “Sales of Office 365 Home and Personal subscriptions were up 35 percent sequentially” <= people can’t afford to “own” office anymore, they rent it one month at a time

17:37:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37904 @ 0.00028671 = 10.8675 BTC [+] {2}

17:37:30 Pierre_Rochard: leftists speak of financialization of the economy over the past ~40 years, seems as though this new era is timeshareization

17:40:43 mats: http://www.realworldtech.com/intel-10nm-qwfet/

17:40:44 assbot: What's Next for Moore's Law? For Intel, III+V = 10nm QWFETs ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCu7T1 )

17:52:26 mats: http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2100133.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Hundreds-of-thousands-of-people-crowd-Copacabana-beach-in-Rio-de-Janeiro-waiting-for-the-arrival-of-Pope-Francis.jpg

17:52:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCww00 )

18:12:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32595 @ 0.00029351 = 9.567 BTC [+]

18:17:31 mod6: !rate mircea_popescu 6 Met IRL, Owner/Operator of MPEx, fraudsters, #bitcoin-assets: Always professional & helpful!

18:17:31 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f2a2786dd887a97c

18:17:43 mod6: !rate ben_vulpes 4 Met IRL, Bitcoin Foundation Co-Chair

18:17:44 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/2412df5e37082e0b

18:17:54 mod6: !rate asciilifeform 3 Met IRL, S.NSA, outstanding work for The Bitcoin Foundation, created portatronic project and runs loper-os.org

18:17:54 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/26313701bac3e894

18:18:04 mod6: !rate mike_c 3 Met IRL, runs btcalpha.com, built new WoT tool

18:18:04 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/04cb855047dde198

18:18:11 mod6: !rate davout 2 Met IRL, runs Paymium. #bitcoin-assets regular.

18:18:11 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0d8d7440088a912a

18:18:20 mod6: !rate hanbot 3 Met IRL, MPOE-PR, author of award-winning 'Shall Be Delivered', provides tenacious exposure of scammers.

18:18:20 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/32cd906eda6cc171

18:18:33 mod6: !rate mthreat 1 Met IRL, built #bitcoin-assets search tool.

18:18:33 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/27d3eaf0e308d62c

18:18:42 mod6: !rate chetty 2 Met IRL, Eulora development.

18:18:42 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/533c624503ce0e49

18:18:51 mod6: !unrate thickasthieves

18:18:51 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/b4fa5bc81eeec688

18:31:26 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.mircea_popescu.6:5ae09ffd2e4c68a142829b5d8dd4c692b09146ee0704f4f8949ebd72e4875779

18:31:26 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 5 to 6 with note: Met IRL, Owner/Operator of MPEx, fraudsters, #bitcoin-assets: Always professional & helpful!

18:31:26 ben_vulpes: ratestorm

18:31:35 ben_vulpes: c-c-c-combo breaker!

18:31:42 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.ben_vulpes.4:95c3c5099875cb35554b5b1594fe6a117c185451202de71435b831c5355357df

18:31:42 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for ben_vulpes from 3 to 4 with note: Met IRL, Bitcoin Foundation Co-Chair

18:31:45 mod6: :

18:31:47 mod6: :]

18:32:06 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.asciilifeform.3:6111e80f40ca8555e6200f24940d44833a75f8c40e153a7cfb559c925607fc7e

18:32:07 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for asciilifeform from 2 to 3 with note: Met IRL, S.NSA, outstanding work for The Bitcoin Foundation, created portatronic project and runs loper-os.org

18:32:21 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.mike_c.3:c8bb2a5d4efe4a755f258372cd9f27b3d6c194d6e0ff4e68269cd196f1b03a4b

18:32:21 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mike_c from 1 to 3 with note: Met IRL, runs btcalpha.com, built new WoT tool

18:32:39 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.davout.2:1244aad3333ed91b8539c30fa297863c9c0e9fc89ed20b1682adc88c8ce0ff38

18:32:39 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for davout with note: Met IRL, runs Paymium. #bitcoin-assets regular.

18:32:52 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.hanbot.3:1cb4e0c458f7737d58f065c40552bcbb364ff21d69ec89199523f3dda92caeb5

18:32:52 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for hanbot with note: Met IRL, MPOE-PR, author of award-winning 'Shall Be Delivered', provides tenacious exposure of scammers.

18:33:14 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.mthreat.1:b2e22164a837e96dc67678c16ca18179547efe5ad5815b61b93b86624cd3df92

18:33:14 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mthreat with note: Met IRL, built #bitcoin-assets search tool.

18:33:27 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.chetty.2:87396006dd964de8c0f21141941c3034077af10390a9da95faaee7779075d082

18:33:27 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for chetty from 1 to 2 with note: Met IRL, Eulora development.

18:33:38 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.unrate.thickasthieves:a908f9c7209c211dee52c9d4a39cdf25132e6f28395aae3265c95d0032856785

18:33:38 assbot: Successfully unrated thickasthieves

18:35:31 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108323 << how would we know?

18:35:31 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 16:16:55; mircea_popescu: we might well discover that actually 1mb is way too much, and all we can afford is less.

18:40:54 Adlai: hashrate dropping too low -> need to increase mining subsidy, either by raising btc/fiat, or increasing tx fee competition

18:42:33 Adlai: ben_vulpes: https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2015-04-24/?msg=37446878&page=3

18:42:35 assbot: IRC Logs for #bitcoin-wizards | BotBot.me [o__o] ... ( http://bit.ly/1Olrdsy )

18:45:19 Adlai: the nice thing about reducing blocksize is that the N largest miners could just agree to not produce larger blocks, and that would raise tx fees through market forces

18:46:51 Pierre_Rochard: Adlai: agreed, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2015#986290

18:46:51 assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 18:35:01; gavinandresen: Pierre_Rochard: if Satoshi hadn’t slapped on a 1MB blocksize limit, would you be lobbying for a hardfork now to impose one?

18:47:52 Adlai: bitcoin inflation relative to fiat prices is high enough that it's a non-issue... atm

18:48:20 Adlai: let's see what happens in a halving or two :)

18:49:21 Pierre_Rochard: I think it’s an issue today if we take into account NPV calculations - if gavincoin has zero future fee revenue, that has an immediate effect on the expected return of mining over the long run. Not sure that it would move the needle on today’s asic capex

18:50:38 Pierre_Rochard: (having uncertainty around it alone increases the npv discount rate)

18:50:55 *: ben_vulpes is entirely out of his depth

18:51:11 *: Adlai is increasingly skeptical regarding the relevance of gavin's blocksize plans

18:51:36 ben_vulpes: lol well we nuked it

18:51:37 Adlai: let's say that i'm equally worried about gavincoin and the bitlicense

18:52:19 *: Pierre_Rochard wishes those advocating for larger block size limit realized the current limit is having _zero_ effect on adoption/price and that will continue to be the case for a while if not forever

18:52:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94272 @ 0.00029351 = 27.6698 BTC [+]

18:53:25 Adlai: but but but fees are driving pay-to-dust sites out of business

18:53:39 Adlai: we must preserve bitcoin's core business model!

18:53:59 Pierre_Rochard: I’m pro-bitlicense, render unto caesar...

18:54:01 williamdunne: Pierre_Rochard: In fairness thats about the same as saying my internet speeds today aren't affecting my ability to do things, so it won't in the future.

18:54:24 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109641 <<< incidentally that's the same argument gavin is making with his "miners cartel"

18:54:24 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:45:19; Adlai: the nice thing about reducing blocksize is that the N largest miners could just agree to not produce larger blocks, and that would raise tx fees through market forces

18:54:55 Pierre_Rochard: williamdunne: it’s the same as saying your internet provider can continue charging you through the nose and you’ll continue thanking them for the privilege - inelasticity of demand

18:55:05 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109651 <<< how's the bitlicense even worth the mention?

18:55:05 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:51:37; Adlai: let's say that i'm equally worried about gavincoin and the bitlicense

18:55:48 Adlai: davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-04-2015#1109647

18:55:48 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:50:38; Pierre_Rochard: (having uncertainty around it alone increases the npv discount rate)

18:56:24 davout: wat

18:56:25 williamdunne: Pierre_Rochard: 1mb blocksize is inelasticity of supply, is it not?

18:56:45 williamdunne: I'm not promoting Gavin's proposal, as it is definitely stupid

18:57:06 williamdunne: But does seem like the block-size will need to increase at some stage(s) if we're to continue growth

18:57:26 Pierre_Rochard: williamdunne: yes, supply inelasticity meets demand inelasticity -> high transaction fees -> high hash rate -> maximize security

18:57:32 danielpbarron: who is caesar?

18:57:47 Pierre_Rochard: NYDFS

18:58:10 williamdunne: Pierre_Rochard: But also makes it less appealing. Security isn't the only objective

18:58:26 danielpbarron: when did rome fall? at what point is caesar no longer caesar?

18:58:28 Adlai: davout: both gavincoin and the bitlicense are clouds on the horizon. some people sell coins for raincoats and umbrellas... though they may be wiser to stick a wet finger in the air

18:58:37 funkenstein_: high TX fees also compete with off chain solutions

18:58:58 Pierre_Rochard: williamdunne: I agree, demand destruction is part of revenue maximization, pushes the hoi polloi onto off-chain alternatives

18:59:22 ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> But does seem like the block-size will need to increase at some stage(s) if we're to continue growth << dude again with this growth bugaboo

18:59:27 Adlai: oh i know how we can turn reddit against gavincoin... the blocksize limit is good for changetip!

18:59:28 williamdunne: Pierre_Rochard: Would it not be preferable to be in a situation where blocks are routinely filled at low-ish fees.

18:59:31 ben_vulpes: fuck off and DIE

18:59:59 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I know you disagree, but I personally would like to see more people/companies/whatevers using bitcoin

19:00:12 davout: Adlai: the bitlicense is to bitcoin what US raw milk regulations are to roquefort, not fucking worth the mention

19:00:14 *: danielpbarron strongly suspects that the greatest impediment to growth is cleaning up the code

19:00:22 Adlai: williamdunne: and i would like to see the people who _use_ bitcoin paying for its security, rather than the people who hold it

19:00:39 *: Pierre_Rochard would vote for “time” as the strongest impediment to growth

19:00:43 Adlai: "use" as in "spend"

19:00:59 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: the people i want using bitcoin take one look at the source and run screaming, as they should

19:01:11 Adlai: the security is being paid for one way or another; currently, the main way is inflation

19:01:43 williamdunne: Adlai: We're in agreement there, I'm not suggesting that we're ever to put ourselves in a position where blocks are huge and no-one is paying. I'm just suggesting that 1mb is no way near enough for bitcoin to be bigger than it is today

19:01:52 danielpbarron: that the network could still accidentally fork over a bug is the reason we aren't seeing billions and trillions invested into bitcoin

19:01:53 funkenstein_: i think the point is more people can use bitcoin at any block size.

19:02:44 funkenstein_: it's a different payment model

19:03:30 williamdunne: funkenstein_: Pretty much. I disagree with Gavin because it essentially makes the blocks infinitely large, but I disagree with some people here because 7tx/s doesn't even cover SWIFT payments

19:04:05 Adlai: danielpbarron: well, that can always be the case... we can decrease the perceived risk through simpler code, testing, and more time since the last accidental fork, but yknow, "unknown unknowns"

19:04:11 danielpbarron: williamdunne, you got a lotta log readin' to do

19:04:47 williamdunne: danielpbarron: I'm not suggesting that bitcoin replaces SWIFT just to be clear.. I just meant because it covers giga+ payments

19:04:56 williamdunne: Where fees are the norm

19:04:59 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: stop thinking swift, start thinking halawa

19:05:17 danielpbarron: let the former swift users figure out how to fit through the new hole

19:05:21 Adlai: stop thinking either, start thinking tankers full of gold

19:05:31 ben_vulpes: Adlai: hm?

19:06:17 *: Adlai imagines hawala also has higher throughput and lower transaction importance than the hypothetical bitcoin-in-ten-halvings

19:07:06 jurov: anyone thought about how the bitcoin hawala ought to work?

19:07:12 williamdunne: jurov: Yes

19:07:16 Adlai: http://lightning.network

19:07:17 assbot: The Bitcoin Lightning Network ... ( http://bit.ly/1bpjyaW )

19:07:30 williamdunne: jurov: I designed a similar-ish system based on a network of brokerages

19:07:41 williamdunne: jurov: Somewhat trustless

19:08:08 ben_vulpes: no no, not the halawa for the muslim at the mosque

19:08:19 ben_vulpes: the halawa of cartels.

19:08:22 Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-02-2015#1035451 < actually, this obviates the need for a microtransaction sidechain

19:08:22 assbot: Logged on 27-02-2015 16:28:48; ben_vulpes: http://lightning.network/lightning-network.pdf << scaling, sidechains, derpage.

19:08:40 Adlai: lightning is precisely bitcoin hawala

19:09:08 *: Adlai feeds the head, bbl

19:09:22 funkenstein_: payment channels sound great, trustless off-chain TX heaven

19:09:22 jurov: !s asciilifeform timelock

19:09:23 assbot: 1 results for 'asciilifeform timelock' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=asciilifeform+timelock

19:09:35 jurov: and other discussion. it has its problems

19:09:36 ben_vulpes: Adlai: dood mpex is bitcoin halawa

19:09:45 ben_vulpes: you can push single satoshis around on mpex

19:09:58 jurov: ben_vulpes: you stretch it too much

19:10:09 ben_vulpes: jurov: come again?

19:10:17 jurov: the hawala definition

19:10:27 jurov: or you came up with this new term - halawa?

19:10:57 ben_vulpes: i thought i was using it correctly

19:11:10 ben_vulpes: ah no hawala

19:11:32 ben_vulpes: i was always under the impression that there was no single hawala network.

19:11:44 ben_vulpes: how could there be? it is of necessity a meatwot thing.

19:11:49 funkenstein_: as i see it these channels will require private TXs, that is given directly to miners, to avoid malleability issues

19:14:00 ben_vulpes: (entirely aside, in a fevered moment of sleeplessness on the plane from bsas i looked into ripping out the nonstandard transaction relay blocking stuff)

19:14:14 jurov: traditional hawala seems to work without much technology, why sudden need to introduce nonstd or private TXs?

19:14:32 ben_vulpes: (subject of, davout how goes the testnet excision? my digs show less than 50 mentions throughout the whole codebase)

19:15:24 funkenstein_: afaik hawala doesn't come with failsafe refunds in case somebody goes awol

19:16:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 159 @ 0.016799 = 2.671 BTC [-]

19:16:56 ben_vulpes: ya well stop trying to impose derpy fiat notions on bitcoin

19:17:00 ben_vulpes: you're just going to hurt your head

19:17:16 ben_vulpes: either trust your counterparties and deal with them, or don't and don't.

19:17:27 ben_vulpes: none of this half-assed "dear state or magic maths please save me from my own derpitude"

19:17:28 davout: funkenstein_: malleability is currently being soft-forked away by power rangers

19:18:21 ben_vulpes: davout: a change to block inclusion rules?

19:18:23 funkenstein_: davout, is that all ok and likely to be folded into reference impls?

19:18:28 davout: ben_vulpes: testnet excision is easy, making the genesis block configurable is the harder part, you also need some standalone tool to generate genesis blocks

19:18:44 ben_vulpes: mhm, i see it.

19:18:54 ben_vulpes: write a standalone wallet while yer at it :P

19:19:26 ben_vulpes: (i was just thanked by someone who plugged into the same outlet as me. wtf.)

19:19:44 ben_vulpes: (outletpair, actually, and the unused one.)

19:19:53 davout: funkenstein_: dunno, if i'm asked i'm all for canonical txids

19:20:44 davout: ben_vulpes: so my plan is to start bu something easier, probably ripping out the "accounts" braindamage to get familiar with the build and patching process

19:21:03 funkenstein_: if it is as simple as adding a SIGtype, that sounds fine but my understanding was there was still some subtleties on the table and gmaxwell said wait 2 years

19:21:16 ben_vulpes: davout: my hero!

19:22:37 funkenstein_: ben_vulpes, well in fairness you do have less current available now :)

19:23:00 davout: funkenstein_: not sure what exactly is implied, so i'll refrain from commenting further

19:23:17 davout: interested in references if you have any available

19:23:28 ben_vulpes: davout: aren't txids canonical after block inclusion?

19:24:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78250 @ 0.00029766 = 23.2919 BTC [+] {2}

19:24:58 davout: ben_vulpes: whichever is included in a block is frozen in the amber, but it's not necessarily the version that has canonical DER-encoded sigs

19:39:31 funkenstein_: thanks davout, anyway I should keep better notes but I was starting here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033396.0;all

19:39:31 assbot: Semi-soft-fork to decrease the risk of tx malleability ... ( http://bit.ly/1EA8FjG )

19:41:18 funkenstein_: and this talk seemed decent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zVzw912wPo

19:41:20 assbot: SF Bitcoin Devs Seminar: Scaling Bitcoin to Billions of Transactions Per Day - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1EA931K )

19:41:20 trinque: davout | well, you, just pushing that to the extreme to show that, even though i hardly ever use it, this unstructured nosql approach sometimes is useful, and isn't *inherently* evil like you seem to imply << there is no such thing as unstructured data, only a question of how rigorously structured it is, and what is used to enforce that.

19:41:53 trinque: the enforcement of structure can live in the component you're using to store data, or in your application layer

19:42:40 trinque: to the extent that you choose to implement it yourself in an application layer, your efforts will approach what is already present and has 40+ years of research behind it in relational databases

19:44:36 trinque: you'll reinvent constraints, referential integrity, transactions, so on and so on

19:46:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102750 @ 0.00029778 = 30.5969 BTC [+]

19:46:59 Pierre_Rochard: trinque: I’ve seen this first hand. Unfortunately the reinvention doesn’t happen until problems arise and the sunk costs prevent a switch to SQL

19:47:14 trinque: Pierre_Rochard: indeed, I've done it to myself

19:47:18 trinque: speaking from experience

19:47:30 Pierre_Rochard: “painted into a corner” is the phrase that comes to mind

19:50:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109367 << you actually getting any packet spam or is that thing history by now ?

19:50:54 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 15:01:11; williamdunne: Eh, not too concerned about it

19:51:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109378 << this is sensible.

19:51:42 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 16:12:23; mats: i started buying AMZN after it became clear they had intentions of becoming a USG contractor

19:52:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109387 "brazen chats" are like "anyone could have foreseen pirate was a scam because string pirate in name"

19:52:30 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 16:16:52; williamdunne: I suppose the "cringe" is about how brazen it was

19:55:30 davout: trinque: nah, my point was that the rdbms-should-enforce-all-structure approach isn't very sensible, unless you're ok eventuall ending up with a spelling and grammar checker for your text fields

19:55:42 davout: *eventually

19:55:48 trinque: maybe we are talking past each other

19:55:50 trinque: I agree with that.

19:56:26 trinque: davout: however, what's wrong with a before trigger that does precisely that?

19:56:33 trinque: playing devil's advocate

19:56:48 trinque: there's no real reason why the db can't be involved in application logic

19:56:56 trinque: postgresql for example is highly programmable

19:56:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109474 << you know the mathematical criteria for a set to include its average is not "even distribution"

19:56:57 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 16:47:53; pete_dushenski: williamdunne: not at all. and nor do i. just that the context has never and will never be evenly distributed. so no averages. so no predictions. no 'over-represented'

19:57:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109486 << not even joking.

19:57:49 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 16:56:32; danielpbarron: pretty user interface is driving adoption!

19:58:03 davout: trinque: i'm not getting dragged into "where should application logic live" debates :-)

19:58:30 mircea_popescu: o look, nubbins` survived the oven monster!

19:59:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109509 << you gotta post this thingm

19:59:06 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 17:02:05; nubbins`: of note: the text of the notice was PGP-signed

19:59:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109517 << sokoban is this ancient knapsack problemizer implemented for ms-dos. it was a riot. as famous as tetris.

19:59:55 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 17:03:46; danielpbarron: i had to look that word up. seems to mean "warehouse keeper"

20:00:35 mircea_popescu: http://www.sokobanonline.com/

20:00:36 assbot: Play and Build Classic and Modern Sokoban Puzzles! - Sokoban Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1EAcBkG )

20:01:08 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109757 <<< interesting

20:01:08 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 19:39:31; funkenstein_: thanks davout, anyway I should keep better notes but I was starting here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033396.0;all

20:02:20 mircea_popescu: "semi soft" ?!

20:02:27 trinque: davout | trinque: i'm not getting dragged into "where should application logic live" debates :-) << can be quite enjoyable as long as one's not personally attached to the outcome

20:03:03 trinque: obviously any truism in systems design can be undone by a particular case

20:03:22 davout: word

20:04:12 davout: on a completely unrelated note, has anyone here ever had lasik surgery?

20:04:25 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109573 << ahaha great rating.

20:04:25 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 17:21:58; asciilifeform: !rate kakobrekla 4 expert infrastructural welder. holds up the sky.

20:04:43 mircea_popescu: davout no, because we use large fonts.

20:04:52 davout: kek

20:05:20 davout: just had it, looking for some feedback wrt dry eyes

20:05:43 mircea_popescu: i thought you had to drip-refill them every hour.

20:05:48 mircea_popescu: don't they give you a special dropper ?

20:06:14 davout: i have like 4 different ones

20:06:42 davout: i keep feeling like "hey, i should take my contacts off, they're getting dry", except there are none to take out

20:07:14 mircea_popescu: so have your bf squirt in your eyes.

20:07:46 davout: sticky eyelids? no thanks

20:07:46 mircea_popescu: but srsly : should prolly talk to the doctor. iirc this is an early sympthom.

20:08:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109578 << so it is, except if random derps in canada are doing it.

20:08:11 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 17:24:04; mats: pgp sig is SOP for DMCA notices

20:08:20 mircea_popescu: then they get butthurt when people say they have nfi what they're doing.

20:08:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109582 << problem is the ascii involved. everyone plays with the bits. usually material is singed pre-emailing, whiuch then wordwrap(80)s

20:08:52 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 17:25:09; nubbins`: this is like being arrested by a cop with a tin badge

20:10:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109636 << well obvously we'd be also discovering how to know on the same ticket.

20:10:33 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:35:31; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108323 << how would we know?

20:11:03 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109638 << or the year is 2800 and the blockchain's too heavy. or or or.

20:11:03 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:40:54; Adlai: hashrate dropping too low -> need to increase mining subsidy, either by raising btc/fiat, or increasing tx fee competition

20:12:23 chetty: When providing us with content or posting content (in each case for publication, whether on- or off-line) using the Services, you grant the PayPal Group a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all copyright, publicity, trademarks, database rights and intellectual property rights you have in the content, in any media known now or in the future. Further, to

20:12:23 chetty: the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your moral rights and promise not to assert such rights against the PayPal Group, its sublicensees or assignees.

20:13:18 mircea_popescu: lol where ios this !?

20:13:48 chetty: paypal says they are changing the tou to include this

20:14:02 chetty: https://www.paypal.com/ie/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full?locale.x=GB

20:14:04 assbot: PayPal ... ( http://bit.ly/1EAfEZY )

20:14:07 trinque: where do they have a place to post content?

20:14:19 trinque: like if you upload a logo to your payment page, you don't own that logo?

20:15:36 chetty: so it would seem not sure what 'providing us with content means', just selling thing via them?

20:15:43 mircea_popescu: seems like it could be so construed o.O

20:15:54 trinque: seems like uploading a png is providing content yeah

20:16:02 trinque: hilarious

20:16:03 mircea_popescu: lmao

20:16:14 mircea_popescu: so wait, they seriously expect a claim in the trademarks of everyone selling through them ?!

20:16:48 chetty: well thats how it reads to me, but I not lawyer :P

20:16:48 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109646 << i don't think so. it has an effect on its relevancy for mining, not on mining itself.

20:16:48 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:49:21; Pierre_Rochard: I think it’s an issue today if we take into account NPV calculations - if gavincoin has zero future fee revenue, that has an immediate effect on the expected return of mining over the long run. Not sure that it would move the needle on today’s asic capex

20:17:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109656 << once the commissioner duly asks for and receives his commision here, i'm all for it too.

20:17:42 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:53:59; Pierre_Rochard: I’m pro-bitlicense, render unto caesar...

20:17:47 mircea_popescu: before, it's just fraud.

20:17:57 Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: ah agreed, important distinction

20:18:33 mircea_popescu: stuff like "herp, polyanna boring printed herself a princess crown".

20:18:38 mircea_popescu: that shit's for 11yos.

20:18:41 Pierre_Rochard: well I’m a gaullist, I tend to respect sovereignties as a matter of realpolitik

20:18:55 mircea_popescu: o yeah ? how many tank divisions does the city of new york have ?

20:19:37 Pierre_Rochard: only need a swat team to raid a btc<->fiat exchange, they have a few

20:19:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109659 << you deeply misunderstand what "market forces" are.

20:19:47 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:54:24; assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:45:19; Adlai: the nice thing about reducing blocksize is that the N largest miners could just agree to not produce larger blocks, and that would raise tx fees through market forces

20:20:21 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard only thing that'll accomplish will be exchanges with emplaced mortar batteries and landmine perimeters.

20:20:33 trinque: I believe the term Adlai is looking for is cartel

20:20:52 mircea_popescu: i believe the education adlai lacks is the failure of "cornering the X market" historically.

20:21:07 mircea_popescu: silver being a fine example if one is superficial enough to only look at one example.

20:21:44 mircea_popescu: but, very simply put : the hand of the market is the hand bitchslapping you. the market is not your mother.

20:22:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109668 << how do you know it won't have to be lowered ?

20:22:20 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 18:57:06; williamdunne: But does seem like the block-size will need to increase at some stage(s) if we're to continue growth

20:22:39 mircea_popescu: on an infinite timeline everything's equally likely, for one thing. so define your timeline. once you do that, how do you know + from - ?

20:22:43 mircea_popescu: "i'm sure" is no argument.

20:23:52 mircea_popescu: mike_c : Num Ratings, Average Rating, Average Rating (Magnitude) can get a tooltip definition/explanation ?

20:24:10 mike_c: yes

20:24:34 mircea_popescu: and i derped more at you earier, dunno if you got

20:26:01 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109682 << speaking of ... lactic cultures, dja know the urbanization of usians is the main force in the bidet market these days ?

20:26:01 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 19:00:12; davout: Adlai: the bitlicense is to bitcoin what US raw milk regulations are to roquefort, not fucking worth the mention

20:26:14 davout: iirc someone managed to build the reference implementation on OSX amirite?

20:26:23 mircea_popescu: iirc it was nubs

20:26:56 mod6: yeah.

20:27:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109683 << that, tied for preminence with "cleaning out the idiots". and i don't as much mean the random derps in the forum going about their usual derpage, as i mean people like the scam foundation, and the power rangers, and so on.

20:27:17 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 19:00:14; *: danielpbarron strongly suspects that the greatest impediment to growth is cleaning up the code

20:27:42 davout: mircea_popescu mod6 ty

20:27:43 mircea_popescu: biggest impediment to adoption, gavin, vessenes, "professional" derps and so on.

20:27:51 mod6: davout: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000073.html

20:27:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gglvi3 )

20:28:36 davout: ah, wunderbar

20:28:47 davout: looking at it ty

20:28:55 mod6: np :]

20:29:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4835 @ 0.00029778 = 1.4398 BTC [+]

20:30:20 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109687 << ayup.

20:30:20 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 19:00:59; ben_vulpes: williamdunne: the people i want using bitcoin take one look at the source and run screaming, as they should

20:32:46 mircea_popescu: nobody can take it seriously with derps a la gavin, luke, hearn & co involved.

20:33:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109697 <<< seems to me most of the people discussing swift in bitcoin have very little experience or understanding of financial networks.

20:33:57 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 19:04:56; williamdunne: Where fees are the norm

20:34:09 mircea_popescu: for one thing, a small fraction of swift movements are ~actual~ settlement transactions.

20:34:21 mircea_popescu: if the banks had to make swift work with 500 txn/day, they would, and nobody would ever know.

20:34:42 mircea_popescu: there's only ~100 of them even needing it daily, and they could just do hourly settlements among each other and be fine.

20:35:30 mircea_popescu: that they don't has everything to do with the fact that swift consts nothing (and provides nothing). bitcoin costs something, and it provides something for that cost. in spades.

20:35:40 mircea_popescu: so... inept comparison, at best.

20:38:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109733 << depends. if banker goes and gets himself lost in desert, the probate court will settle claims against him. so refunds of a sort.

20:38:34 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 19:15:24; funkenstein_: afaik hawala doesn't come with failsafe refunds in case somebody goes awol

20:39:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109754 << they are, yeah.

20:39:43 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 19:23:28; ben_vulpes: davout: aren't txids canonical after block inclusion?

20:57:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform key churning started yet ? i kinda wanna peek at top while it's going

20:59:11 williamdunne: 20:50:53 - mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-04-2015#1109367 << you actually getting any packet spam or is that thing history by now ? << I've not experienced any either way

20:59:11 assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 15:01:11; williamdunne: Eh, not too concerned about it

21:02:13 mircea_popescu: Overheard over coffee:

21:02:14 mircea_popescu: A. "In some ways, one could argue that our boss fills some roles of the man we are in a relationship with. He supports us financially, ensures we have a safe place to live, and has to accommodate our emotional instability in the work place. Is it really all that unfair of him to expect to enjoy some of the perks of being in a relationship with us, if he so chooses?"

21:02:14 mircea_popescu: B. "I have had sex with almost every boss I?ve ever had. I found myself doing things to please them that I would never do for my husband."

21:02:14 mircea_popescu: C. "I?ve got a habit of fucking my bosses too. They?re in a position of power over me, and for at least part of the day they?re my owners, so they should be able to reap the benefits of that."

21:02:17 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: The reddit police tried to impound this place with a Denial of Service bot, hard to tell if they will be back

21:02:29 mircea_popescu: was it teh reddit police ?

21:03:00 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's what the 502 guy called himself

21:03:04 williamdunne: How heroic of them

21:03:09 BingoBoingo: !s fivezerotwo

21:03:09 assbot: 202 results for 'fivezerotwo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fivezerotwo

21:03:20 mircea_popescu: i thought that was a joke.

21:06:44 BingoBoingo: Gotta take seriously that the idiots believe their pretenses

21:07:06 BingoBoingo: They have idea after all

21:10:25 BingoBoingo: Anyways, who is truly to say that reddit wouldn't hire pinkertons for $5.15 an hour

21:14:35 BingoBoingo: Or a nickle a line

21:29:34 chetty: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/noticias/2015/04/150422_volcan_calbuco_erupcion_chile_ao

21:29:35 assbot: Alerta roja en Chile por la sorpresiva erupción del volcán Calbuco - BBC Mundo ... ( http://bit.ly/1DId11D )

21:36:18 BingoBoingo: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Buffalo-roaming-in-Bethlehem-6221286.php

21:36:19 assbot: All buffalo shot and killed - Times Union ... ( http://bit.ly/1EAvhAD )

21:37:35 mircea_popescu: ouch

21:44:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: key churning started yet ? i kinda wanna peek << not yet. caught something on the plane, spent most of the time since coming home, in bed, in a kind of delirium.

21:44:35 mircea_popescu: ;/

21:44:48 mircea_popescu: well on the plus side it prolly helps your immunity

21:45:21 asciilifeform: also catching up with pet, might end up like xanthyos, l0l

21:46:26 mircea_popescu: !up jonvaage

21:46:34 mircea_popescu: how did he end up ?

21:46:44 asciilifeform: in cock cast, iirc

21:46:57 mircea_popescu: oh

21:47:07 jonvaage: Thanks. How is everyone?

21:47:21 mircea_popescu: not bad.

21:47:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe next conf YOU stay home, send her over then she can do all the whores.

21:47:45 asciilifeform: l0l

21:53:26 jonvaage: Anyone ever play the board game Diplomacy?

21:53:31 asciilifeform: me.

21:54:24 mircea_popescu: the last time i played a board game i was 8, and it was "nu te supara frate". alf, did you have this ? you must've.

21:54:47 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CY-aApQAnM

21:54:49 assbot: Nu te supara frate...private game in birt - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIfRUp )

21:55:23 asciilifeform: pretty sure we had this. and that john nash invented it in the '50s

21:55:44 asciilifeform: in usa, where it was forgotten

21:55:45 jonvaage: Looks like "Sorry"

21:55:56 mircea_popescu: well it's not a very good game tbh.

21:55:57 asciilifeform: or was it 'hex'

21:56:56 mircea_popescu: anyway, apparently it was printed as early as the 20s

21:57:00 *: asciilifeform did not really play anything like this since early boyhood, was a semiserious chess-head for some years, then turned into very mediocre go/weichi/baduk (surprised how many folks are unable to identify it given only one of jp/cn/kr names) player

21:57:57 mircea_popescu: i kinda play go now and again as part of foreplay.

21:58:02 asciilifeform: l0l!

21:58:05 asciilifeform: chess?

21:58:12 mircea_popescu: nope

21:58:21 asciilifeform: me: 'which chess piece feels best?' woman: 'the board'

21:58:27 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

21:58:49 mircea_popescu: and now we understand why davout plays the cello.

21:59:04 asciilifeform: aha go as foreplay - do captured stones end up 'in' ?

21:59:15 mircea_popescu: has been known to occur.

21:59:38 mircea_popescu: all sorts of things can end up in. like, a can's worth of peas.

22:00:18 asciilifeform: l0l

22:00:40 *: mircea_popescu very naively went to a go friendly tournament in timisoara once, not realising that... kids.

22:00:52 mircea_popescu: they made me play with a very prepubescent 11 yo girl.

22:00:56 mircea_popescu: i... had to leave.

22:00:59 asciilifeform: mega-l0l

22:01:15 BingoBoingo: !b 3

22:01:16 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0V2NPMZ.txt )

22:01:21 asciilifeform: it is actually one of those things, like ballet, where the best minds are the one prepubertally-deformed

22:01:40 mircea_popescu: yeah well, i'm not such a great fan of "competitive" humans.

22:02:02 asciilifeform: the games are interesting (to an aficionado) to read.

22:02:06 mircea_popescu: the prima ballerina was never the best ballerina, at least to my taste.

22:02:09 asciilifeform: my brother, for instance, spends much of his waking time doing this.

22:02:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 291026 @ 0.0002985 = 86.8713 BTC [+] {2}

22:03:22 *: asciilifeform now understands why mircea_popescu did not offer any of the c3 guests a game of go. 'no homo' (TM)

22:03:34 mircea_popescu: i don't think i ever played with a male.

22:03:53 asciilifeform: phun phakt: the top u.s. player, for many years, was a hot chick

22:04:00 mircea_popescu: and rarely if at all with a woman neither in a robe nor altogether disrobed.

22:04:08 mircea_popescu: o, really ? who ?

22:04:16 asciilifeform: j. kim i think it was

22:04:47 asciilifeform: http://senseis.xmp.net/?JaniceKim << i think this

22:04:47 assbot: Janice Kim at Sensei's Library ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIhnWu )

22:05:00 *: Adlai would be quite curious to see the mining cartel attempt to corner down a less-than-1mb blocksize, primarily because it would be Actually Good News™

22:06:15 mircea_popescu: http://8ch.net/pol/res/1817286.html heh

22:06:17 assbot: /pol/ - Dude trolls the shit out of Fetlife. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIhHVb )

22:08:39 Adlai: how does it feel to be internet famouser

22:08:48 mircea_popescu: isn't 8chan the bad one ?

22:08:55 BingoBoingo: lol https://8ch.net/pol/res/1817286.html#1825098

22:08:56 assbot: /pol/ - Dude trolls the shit out of Fetlife. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Epidw9 )

22:09:11 cazalla: mircea_popescu, nope, 8chan is the 4chan replacement seeing moot got cucked

22:09:23 BingoBoingo: 8chan is where the 4chan refugees went when moot went derpitty herp herp

22:09:42 *: asciilifeform eagerly awaits 4294967296chan

22:10:02 mircea_popescu: i thought it's where all the privileged white maletriarchs go to be horrible and chauvinistic and encourage rape and stuff ?

22:10:56 cazalla: moot cuck thing went something like this http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/53/5f/535f6e_5335133.jpg

22:10:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EpiLC5 )

22:10:59 mircea_popescu: i seem to remember reading in salami.com

22:11:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought it's where all the privileged white maletriarchs go to be horrible and chauvinistic and encourage rape and stuff ? << nah, that's at 18446744073709551616chan.

22:13:56 mircea_popescu: cazalla for some stupid reason that loads nothing for me.

22:15:43 *: Pierre_Rochard is regular lurker on 8chan’s pol

22:16:17 mircea_popescu: anything good ?

22:16:28 mircea_popescu: intel points out 8chan owner was actually in here at some point.

22:16:48 cazalla: mircea_popescu, meh not really missing anything anyway

22:19:11 asciilifeform: http://fraudsters.com/2015/a-proper-social-site-for-the-bdsm-community/#comment-113887 << as far as i can tell, the thing being proposed is virtually exactly lavabit...

22:19:12 assbot: A proper social site for the BDSM community on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIjEAT )

22:19:12 Pierre_Rochard: it covers everything outside the overton window, with a good dose of humor and absurdity to boot

22:19:17 trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/24/us-usa-election-fec-idUSKBN0NF1V420150424 << fire sale, get 'em while they last!

22:19:18 assbot: FEC decision may allow more foreign money in U.S. votes, critics say | Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIjERz )

22:20:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty sure lavabit had a master key

22:21:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the subpoena concerned their ssl signing key

22:21:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was precisely because they did not have anything else suitable for owning the userbase

22:21:22 mircea_popescu: but the defense claimed that if they give out that key they will expose all past traffic.

22:21:58 *: asciilifeform reviews the shitpile

22:23:22 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#footnote_2_49734 <

22:23:22 assbot: So who's running the Courts circus ? on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIkkGF )

22:23:54 mircea_popescu: "I only have the keys that govern communications into and out of the network, and those keys are used to secure the traffic for all users, not just the user in question."

22:24:04 asciilifeform: well yeah, the ssl cert

22:24:26 asciilifeform: they wanted to mitm the whole thing

22:24:34 asciilifeform: because it was the only way to get the snowden crap out

22:24:52 mircea_popescu: it's not very clear, but perhaps your reading is correct

22:25:19 asciilifeform: this, incidentally, is the core reason why in-browser crypto is intrinsically harmful

22:25:25 mircea_popescu: seems kinda contorted, the ssl key is used to "secure" pgp'd info ?

22:25:29 asciilifeform: rather than the overall poor hygience of the ecosystem

22:25:37 mircea_popescu: which is "this" ?

22:25:58 asciilifeform: the ssl key was the only way for the schmucks/users to know that they are connecting to levison's box and getting the js they thought they were getting

22:26:05 asciilifeform: rather than an identical but key-returning one

22:26:07 mircea_popescu: umm... no ?

22:26:14 mircea_popescu: schmucks can just keep a copy of yest's js and DIFF IT!!11

22:26:20 mircea_popescu: what, this is not sop ? because why ?

22:26:25 asciilifeform: if you know how to use 'diff' - you are not a schmuck

22:26:36 asciilifeform: and don't need browser-crypto for anything

22:26:41 mircea_popescu: convenience.

22:26:50 asciilifeform: convenience is the mother of calamity

22:26:52 asciilifeform: or how did it go.

22:27:00 *: asciilifeform adjusts reactor rods

22:27:03 mircea_popescu: calamity is one of the best anal sluts in the lands.

22:27:42 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/calamity-jane/

22:27:43 assbot: Calamity Jane on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1EpmNKO )

22:32:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu leads us to an interesting observation - that no www browser ever made any kind of provision for ensuring that you are running a particular known copy of a js proggy

22:33:16 asciilifeform: though this may be for the same reason why no public toilet includes knives and forks

22:33:17 mircea_popescu: actually, this is trivial to do.

22:33:21 asciilifeform: of course trivial

22:33:31 mircea_popescu: basically an equiv of adblocker,

22:33:39 mircea_popescu: just have it use your own file for js instead of the one linked by server.

22:33:40 asciilifeform: homework-grade proggy.

22:33:45 asciilifeform: who wants - go, write.

22:34:22 mircea_popescu: well site first.

22:35:03 asciilifeform: of course, when the browser is pwned (and all modern graphical browsers are good for one or two public total-demolition pwnholes every quarter or so) the keys are out.

22:35:29 asciilifeform: hygiene is a thing.

22:35:34 asciilifeform: it is good for you. (to a degree)

22:36:11 Pierre_Rochard: ^ I’m surprised it’s not a bigger attack vector for online banking hijacks (or is it? unfamiliar with ~ cyber crime ~)

22:36:17 asciilifeform: is.

22:36:27 asciilifeform: and very much so.

22:37:21 mircea_popescu: http://8ch.net/pol/src/1429803885757.jpg << lawl ok this /pol/ thing is pretty entertaining.

22:37:59 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard places that are serious about online banking mandate use of ie 10! and they get their sexurity as activex implants!

22:38:13 mircea_popescu: (this may sound like a joke. it is actually fact.)

22:38:18 asciilifeform: in kr - mandatory.

22:38:34 asciilifeform: and look into why - will blow your mind, guaranteed.

22:38:40 mircea_popescu: exaclty.

22:39:26 asciilifeform: (their local version of nsa is so impoverished that '80s-grade castrato keys must be used. the only way to achieve this is custom winblows code, rather than microshit's normal crypto api even. hence activex/exploder mandate.)

22:39:59 Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: here’s a joke for you - I run a WinXP 32 bit VM so that I can use 32 bit IE8 so that I can access online bank

22:40:06 Pierre_Rochard: only version that’s compatible

22:41:05 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard i've never used "online banking".

22:41:51 Pierre_Rochard: rich man / poor man

22:42:35 mircea_popescu: i do have some acct manager ppl who are technically bank clerks that i contact via pgp, which is a greast improvemnent over phone and i have nfi how they get into the systems

22:42:46 mircea_popescu: but prolly the magic of "inside the firewall no security is needed"

22:44:50 mircea_popescu: http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelalexander/2014/09/01/i-can-destroy-your-reputation-and-career-in-two-minutes-n1885724/page/full

22:44:51 assbot: I Can Destroy Your Reputation and Career in Two Minutes - Rachel Alexander - Page full ... ( http://bit.ly/1DInDgO )

22:45:00 mircea_popescu: linked for "Slimy folks like ?Busta Troll? are hijacking Facebook pages of conservatives, replacing the content with goats and anti-conservative messages. Some believe a goat is used because it is a Satanic symbol; many of the conservatives are targeted because of their Christian or Jewish views."

22:45:27 mircea_popescu: yeah, totally. because idiots that are too stupid to have been online for goatse get to reinvent an alt-universe where "satanism"

22:59:38 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell FelipeMicaroniLalli https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/335jn0/p2p_lending_i_just_loaned_100_peeps_bitcoin_on/ lawl

22:59:41 assbot: P2P Lending: I just loaned 100 peeps bitcoin on BTCJam. Here's some of my thoughts. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1yYIH7a )

22:59:41 gribble: Error: That is an invalid IRC nick. Please check your input.

23:07:53 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/cc683d6b70aa94f98c07d0654cf41f6c/tumblr_mwmuwlB1G61slq74qo1_1280.jpg saved for later.

23:07:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yYK3i7 )

23:18:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36150 @ 0.00031017 = 11.2126 BTC [+]

23:55:55 mircea_popescu: !up blacktower

23:59:35 blacktower: hello hello! just learning all of this, won't derp it up. glad to be a part of the community!