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Transcript for 24-05-2013, 1204 lines:

00:09:10 dub: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-3.html

00:09:18 mircea_popescu: 2 weeks

00:09:18 dub: shipping next week guys

00:09:23 mircea_popescu: o no ?!

00:09:30 dub: forealz

00:09:31 mircea_popescu: wait. i thought they shipped already

00:09:39 KRS-1: I cant wait

00:09:50 dub: oh but you will

00:09:55 KRS-1: hahaha!

00:09:57 KRS-1: prolly..

00:10:05 KRS-1: what does the difficulty look like

00:10:32 KRS-1: if i get 70 ghash online initially..

00:10:53 KRS-1: sold all of my mining equipment a long time ago

00:11:12 Bugpowder: Going back to my old google doc from October calculating how much BTC I was going to make off GIGAMINING is kinda funny

00:11:24 Bugpowder: So many projections...

00:11:29 Namworld: lol

00:11:31 Bugpowder: So little to show for it

00:11:48 Namworld: Any projection which is equal or less than current income?

00:13:11 KRS-1: is it possible AM could fall on their face, thus bringing down the difficulty

00:13:27 KRS-1: could anything happen if they get too much of the total network speed?

00:13:32 Namworld: Would be funny...

00:13:44 Namworld: Fire or something...

00:13:49 KRS-1: government

00:14:34 Namworld: Bugpowder?

00:14:47 Namworld: How much do you get now out of your Gigamining?

00:16:10 KRS-1: this sounds like a shitty deal: ' indefinite contract, which costs $246. This runs for as long as the user wants, and provides 1 Ghash/sec of compute power. With this type of contract, 30 percent of the return is reinvested in additional computing power'

00:17:39 Namworld: 1 Ghash?

00:17:45 Namworld: Sounds good to me

00:18:32 Namworld: Where?

00:19:26 Bugpowder: lol

00:19:34 Bugpowder: I haven't claimed my shares yet

00:19:43 Bugpowder: not worth my time

00:19:48 Namworld: oh... how many did you have?

00:19:52 mircea_popescu: KRS-1 it's quite improbable.

00:20:06 mircea_popescu: the only thing is that both avalon and bitfury claim to have tons of chips right around the corner

00:20:14 Bugpowder: AM seems like they know what they are doing

00:20:26 Bugpowder: but come on... 2.5BTC / share?

00:20:33 Namworld: AM does know what they're doing, apparently

00:20:47 Bugpowder: I totally missed the boat on them

00:20:51 Namworld: Bugpowder, it's just that BTC stocks tend to take a value around 1%/week

00:21:06 Namworld: I should have bought 10 000 @ 0.1 BTC each back then

00:21:13 Bugpowder: Namworld: yeah but that rate is unsustainable

00:21:35 Namworld: Would only have paid 5000 USD or 1000 BTC

00:21:36 mircea_popescu: noob ventures take a value around 1% a week, last for 30 weeks tops

00:21:47 Namworld: Now I'd have 25000 BTC or 2.5 million

00:21:49 Namworld: Lol...

00:21:53 Bugpowder: Bitcoin securities investors seem to be unable to look more than 45 days in advance

00:22:12 Bugpowder: most S.DICE investors look backwards

00:22:20 Bugpowder: how much are we up this month

00:22:22 Namworld: If they can't do that, why would they pay 100x weekly revenue?

00:22:35 Bugpowder: although on a volume weighted basis that isn't true

00:22:40 Namworld: Like 400 BTC up for SDICE at latest news

00:23:00 Bugpowder: Namworld: yes I know. Just vocalizing the mindset.

00:23:30 Bugpowder: S.DICE at .002 looks pretty damn good to me.

00:23:58 mircea_popescu: Our chips consume about 3 - 3.5w per GH/s at the chip level

00:24:01 mircea_popescu: way to blow a spec lol

00:24:28 Namworld: Well unless S.DICE volume picks up, 0.002 seems ok, but not damn good

00:24:48 Namworld: I'd buy at 0.0015

00:24:51 Namworld: personally

00:25:29 Namworld: If they made a stable 5000 BTC each month

00:25:32 Bugpowder: Namworld: I'm forward looking

00:25:56 Namworld: That's 30 months to reach 0.0015 in dividends

00:26:01 Bugpowder: If you believe its truly a money tree scam where erik is recycling into it, then don't buy

00:26:14 Namworld: But they don't even earn that

00:26:27 Namworld: Nah, I don't think it's a scam.

00:26:35 mircea_popescu: i suspect the stability point for bitcoin securities is way way under 1% per year

00:26:38 mircea_popescu: probably more like .1%

00:26:56 Bugpowder: They sometimes earn 20,000 BTC /mo

00:26:58 mircea_popescu: course this strictly applies to securities.

00:27:06 mircea_popescu: insecurities are a different story.

00:27:08 Bugpowder: will they do that again? I dunnno

00:27:12 Namworld: Bugpowder, true

00:27:20 Namworld: But will that come back?

00:27:25 Bugpowder: but I would say its probably a 50/50 proposition

00:27:50 Bugpowder: that they have another comparably huge month again within the next 4 months.

00:28:01 Namworld: 0.1% per year? Too meager returns in my taste

00:28:14 Bugpowder: and then you get a 10% divided from that cost basis and a 250% gain in share price.

00:28:58 Bugpowder: S.DICE is a Buffet play

00:29:18 Bugpowder: maybe not him

00:29:19 Bugpowder: but you know

00:29:29 Bugpowder: probably undervalued based on its potential

00:29:34 Bugpowder: people panic and shit

00:29:56 mircea_popescu: moreover, the people atm involved are mostly kids trying to bootstrap themselves into financiers on a shoestring

00:30:10 mircea_popescu: once actual capital starts moving in it's a different story.

00:30:41 mircea_popescu: (and no, actual capital ain't measured in millions)

00:31:13 Namworld: Coinroll has made 1/4th of SD profit so far this month. SD really isn't lucky this month.

00:31:43 Bugpowder: yeah, but S.DICE luck should be totally irrelevant to the share price

00:31:44 Bugpowder: really

00:31:54 Namworld: volume is what matters

00:31:57 Bugpowder: yes

00:32:07 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as we know they can pay, yeah.

00:32:16 Bugpowder: true

00:32:19 mircea_popescu: Namworld what happens to coinroll if it hits a -5k ?

00:32:27 mircea_popescu: or w/e, a -heavy

00:32:42 Bugpowder: but in bitcoinland, S.DICE instant divided level drives the price strongly.

00:33:00 Bugpowder: Thats why I threw up some bids when they went down 2k.

00:33:46 Namworld: SD has had about ~90'000 BTC volume this month

00:37:05 Bugpowder: sup foglight

00:37:37 Bugpowder: you dump your AM yet?

00:42:52 foglight: not yet

00:43:22 Bugpowder: gamblin' man

00:43:39 Namworld: If I had kept my shares, I'd be selling like a madman

01:05:08 BitHub: why's that?

01:05:12 BitHub: AM tanking?

02:06:00 jborkl: i am selling puts and calls. starting tomorrow, i will be pricing better than the bot. pm me what mpsic and qty, i am still thinking anout pricing so that will be better than the bot

02:06:22 jborkl: about

03:02:35 dub: tanking up

03:05:08 ThickAsThieves: "Excessive wait trying to get lock on ASICMINER-PT."

03:05:21 ThickAsThieves: good old btctc

03:48:59 thestringpuller: this channel is quiet as shit today

03:53:13 KRS-1: shhh

04:04:12 _aknap3: thestringpuller: I wouldn't know, to compare

04:45:23 Chaaang-Noi: yeah over 2.5 wh0000

05:02:45 Chaaang-Noi: s.dice is still haning in there

05:05:43 foglight: good value at 0.002x ,imo

05:06:48 Chaaang-Noi: looking for .001 here

05:07:15 foglight: arent we all

05:08:30 foglight: maybe exciting things are around the corner. maybe they'll change the background to blue

05:08:42 Chaaang-Noi: some risks like eric knowning the secret daily password so he or a hacker could take that number and win all the money, us govt, people lose interest, .001 id buy a few but not many

05:08:47 truffles: the sky is blue

05:09:50 ll: secret password?

05:10:29 foglight: def some risks

05:10:35 foglight: lol

05:10:46 truffles: tin foil moment?

05:11:00 foglight: always in btcland

05:11:33 Chaaang-Noi: at anytime eric or a hacker could steall all the funds, it is a risk

05:11:46 Chaaang-Noi: not sayig it will happen

05:11:59 Chaaang-Noi: saying it could happen and it is likely enough to think about when buying the stock

05:12:13 Chaaang-Noi: 50% or more of these sort of thing go tits up cuz of "hacker"

05:12:45 foglight: truth

05:13:18 foglight: but i've made a lot off s.dice :D

05:13:44 foglight: in the past

05:20:17 bdk_kluge: I made a lot off Pirate in the past.

05:20:45 bdk_kluge: He just didn't give the hack excuse.

05:20:50 truffles: "Lindstrand has been urging companies to more aggressively pursue balloon-based wireless networks but says that no one has stepped up yet. "[Google X's Plan to Wire the World]

05:20:59 truffles: haha excuse

05:23:59 bdk_kluge: How much would one of these balloons cost? What's involved in maintenance? I'm lacking towers in my area, and sure can't justify the cost of erecting one just for my own thing...

05:25:00 bdk_kluge: May actually be very viable in rural, forested areas.

05:25:34 truffles: theyre for non western countries im guessing

05:25:37 bdk_kluge: I was thinking about just mounting big metal arms on hill-top trees, but that's kind of a sucky solution.

05:25:49 truffles: let me just link u the article..

05:26:10 KRS-1: wouldnt bad weather move the balloons all around

05:26:33 Chaaang-Noi: bdk_kluge> He just didn't give the hack excuse. he did not say anything much, we still dont know :/

05:26:57 truffles: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-23/is-this-google-xs-plan-to-wire-the-world

05:27:02 bdk_kluge: Thanks.

05:28:25 truffles: yea confirms my theory wanting to take over the world

05:28:35 bdk_kluge: Haven't they pretty much, already?

05:30:01 truffles: no i still mainly use ymail

05:30:02 bdk_kluge: "But solar-powered balloons packed with a fuel cell and an onboard motor can remain stationary for up to five years and are “perfectly feasible.”" Idea died right there for me.

05:31:02 bdk_kluge: "it needs to be created by a small elite team with past airship experience" lol

05:31:23 truffles: elite teams ftw

05:32:22 Chaaang-Noi: lol

05:32:25 bdk_kluge: Disappointment.

05:36:48 bdk_kluge: Wonder if you could just chain the balloons to something physical. I never measured wattage draw of Ubiquiti radio.... wonder how reasonable this is.

05:37:37 bdk_kluge: If the chain were tight, it might not move around too much to be unreasonable?

05:40:19 truffles: u r srs eh

05:40:43 truffles: dont assist in world domination!

05:40:48 bdk_kluge: Well, it can be tested out with trash bags and tape, so Hell yeah!

05:41:45 ericmuyser: i really dont see what sdice can do to recover. stale mate

05:42:29 truffles: i can

05:55:02 Chaaang-Noi: massive buy and sell walls ??? at gox?

05:55:30 Chaaang-Noi: 25k coins to $10 either way, in fucking sane

05:55:54 bdk_kluge: Pfff - only $3m?

05:56:24 truffles: cyptomoney isnt real ldo

05:56:34 bdk_kluge: Doesn't the double-wall generally indicate someone wants to manipulate us upward with fake stability? :p

05:57:12 dub: np

05:57:18 dub: no*

05:57:59 Chaaang-Noi: i will also go with no

05:58:22 Chaaang-Noi: looks like they are trying to force stability, and im okay with that

05:58:59 bdk_kluge: Force stability for what?

05:59:14 Chaaang-Noi: stable price

05:59:21 Chaaang-Noi: so media quits bitching about the unstability

05:59:24 bdk_kluge: They don't believe stability will aid in adoption and mid-term increase price?

05:59:45 bdk_kluge: (adoption, and more importantly, confidence)

05:59:55 Chaaang-Noi: stability and increase in price are oppisets

06:00:18 Chaaang-Noi: but yes, mid term to long term you are right

06:00:23 ericmuyser: oppisets..

06:00:27 Chaaang-Noi: that is the thinking

06:00:44 Chaaang-Noi: <ericmuyser> oppisets.. yes sir

06:01:06 bdk_kluge: Or maybe it's a trap and I'm supposed to think the wall will enforce stability, when it's actually just readying for a massive dump!

06:01:09 bdk_kluge: :o

06:01:27 ericmuyser: or it's a wall and that's it

06:01:38 bdk_kluge: But there are TWO walls! You can't explain that!

06:02:16 bdk_kluge: Like fuckin' magnets...

06:03:25 Chaaang-Noi: im honestly shocked we are even over $100

06:03:55 ericmuyser: ya we survived a bubble without much dispair

06:04:10 ericmuyser: should be really happy about that

06:04:18 Chaaang-Noi: i am

06:04:29 Chaaang-Noi: but man, i have a shit load of powder to buy back in

06:04:29 ericmuyser: http://o7.no/11gZaBI

06:04:40 Chaaang-Noi: i wanted 70$ btc

06:04:52 ericmuyser: ya so the wall is a bit closer on the up side this time by $5 and doubled, and highest it usually gets.. pretty cool

06:05:55 ericmuyser: market cap is almost 1.5 bil, sick

06:06:08 ericmuyser: and AM is 130 mil kinda stable..

06:06:10 ericmuyser: shock and awe

06:22:05 Chaaang-Noi: i heart crypto

06:29:55 qxzn: ericmuyser: what does AM stand for?

06:30:05 ericmuyser: asicminer

06:30:19 qxzn: ah ok

07:13:57 Chaaang-Noi: i see some btc auction

07:14:04 Chaaang-Noi: action* 127 wh000

07:16:45 Chaaang-Noi: wow wnt awat to walk dogs for 2 hours, almost nothing has pahhpened with asse3ts

07:26:00 bdk_kluge: It's 11p-3a in ImportantVille. What could possibly happen?

07:26:50 Chaaang-Noi: im used to see much more action

07:27:07 bdk_kluge: Well, go visit your gf, then

07:51:45 saulimus: you know what would be cool? a S&P500 type of chart for all stocks on an exchange. would give a nice overview of stocks' performance.. it's annoying to just look at numbers

07:52:03 saulimus: also, I'm lazy

07:52:15 bdk_kluge: Email CNBC.

07:56:02 Chaaang-Noi: bitcoin is listed at cnbc already

07:56:13 Chaaang-Noi: but not btc stocks :)

07:56:24 bdk_kluge: (yet!)

07:56:39 Chaaang-Noi: we would need a real exchange first

07:56:57 Chaaang-Noi: the best stock AM is not even listed on an exchange

07:57:01 Chaaang-Noi: self managed

08:02:51 ericmuyser: saulimus: http://fnords.dontexist.com/ ?

08:19:24 davout: hello fine assets crowd

08:28:53 Namworld: Hello

08:29:03 bdk_kluge: Hello, world

08:31:51 Namworld: <?php echo 'Hello, world!'; ?>

08:35:11 parseval: inhies: Are you there?

08:52:06 inhies: parseval: i am now

08:52:09 inhies: still around? i just got home

08:52:54 parseval: Cool, check this out http://dpaste.com/hold/1197404/

08:53:59 inhies: ah yea

08:54:02 inhies: just saw your post in the thread

08:54:07 inhies: thank you, i'll have to dig through it

08:54:15 inhies: i think i know enough python to make sense of it :)

08:54:36 parseval: If you're doing an app for yourself then you only need to run it once to get the credentials, then you can just save them

08:55:09 parseval: No more of that copy/paste stuff.

08:56:07 parseval: Now I'm having a problem in the same area.. it's like the only thing that works are the oob credentials. No callbacks are being made..

08:56:51 parseval: I know they must be, somehow, because they work on btcjam, but it's not visiting my callback_url at all

08:57:16 inhies: ah yea

08:57:27 inhies: its not the verification that gets saved though is it?

08:57:33 inhies: i thoguht it was the credentials that ge made AFTER that

08:57:52 inhies: but i havent made it passed that yet with btctc and its been awhile since ive done oauth with anything else

08:59:56 parseval: Right, after you paste the verifier you will get another secret

09:01:04 inhies: yea, tahts what i saved before

09:01:07 inhies: but im getting invalid verifier

09:01:13 inhies: ill look over this code tomorrow, its bedtime

09:01:19 inhies: thank you for this

09:02:45 inhies: if i cant get this to work i'll show you my code (its Go though)

09:02:49 inhies: and maybe we can figure it out

09:07:06 parseval: Alright

09:07:10 parseval: Night

09:08:50 ThickAsThieves: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/05/21/3763135.htm#.UZ8uH7VvOXv

09:09:05 ThickAsThieves: (scientists identify cell of limb regeneration)

09:55:23 fiat500: hm, did AM stop solomining?

10:02:01 ThickAsThieves: they have about 5th offline atm http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/

10:02:12 mircea_popescu: why is that ?

10:02:20 ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash

10:03:10 ThickAsThieves: they usually have some go offline when thet are adding or tweaking

10:03:15 ThickAsThieves: temporary

10:03:35 ThickAsThieves: ;;bc,stats

10:15:42 mircea_popescu: "I am willing to pay top dollar for someone to help me cosign a mortgage. I have no family I can ask. I have good credit and equity. I need someone in California with good credit and high income."

10:15:49 mircea_popescu: bwagagaga ok this is the best yet.

10:16:39 fiat500: sign me up!

10:17:27 bdk_kluge: I'd imagine there'd be quite a few drug dealers interested in creating such an offer.

10:19:59 mircea_popescu: as opposed to you know... simply bankrupt people.

11:05:31 dub: !ticker bc asicminer-pt

11:05:41 dub: !ticker bt asicminer-pt

13:10:18 cole_albon: ;;bc,24hprc

13:14:51 ThickAsThieves: "Could TAT shares just be pegged to 1/100 the price of PT shares? I think theres alot of arbitrage going on between the prices of the two causing extra market volatility ... It just seems illogical that at times 100 TAT shares can cost more than 1 PT share when they only pay 95% of the PT dividend."

13:14:58 ThickAsThieves: oh, the humanity

13:16:02 parseval: That would be hell to implement

13:16:14 ThickAsThieves: and totally retarded

13:16:34 parseval: "Sorry, you can only offer your shares up for this price"

13:16:42 ThickAsThieves: why would i peg my price? So i can lose?

13:16:44 ThickAsThieves: also

13:16:54 Diablo-D3: pegging makes no sense

13:16:54 ThickAsThieves: since when did arb cause volatility?

13:16:58 Diablo-D3: let arb bots do it

13:17:02 Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: they dont

13:17:03 Diablo-D3: they reduce it

13:17:07 ThickAsThieves: exactly

13:17:33 ThickAsThieves: dude just saw the best price somewhere else but couldnt afford a whole share

13:17:52 Diablo-D3: are you charging a fee for TAT?

13:17:59 ThickAsThieves: 5% of divs

13:18:05 Diablo-D3: you know what you should do?

13:18:05 ThickAsThieves: which is a pittance

13:18:10 ThickAsThieves: what

13:18:10 Diablo-D3: buy DMC shares and trade for the AM

13:18:14 ThickAsThieves: i try

13:18:22 ThickAsThieves: they are too spensive

13:18:39 Diablo-D3: yeah but you can sell them as TAT shares at whatever price you want

13:18:47 Diablo-D3: eventually the market will meet it

13:18:50 parseval: I saw that, it didn't even come up to a whole BTC for this div, at 9 btc paid out

13:19:16 Diablo-D3: which reminds me, I have another 14 BTC to pay out as div for DMC

13:19:18 parseval: It was like.. .45btc if my math is right

13:19:32 parseval: It's not a bad management fee at all

13:21:22 ThickAsThieves: unfortunately, many perceive the stock as being worth 5% less overall

13:21:35 ThickAsThieves: when it isn't as simple as that

13:26:12 Diablo-D3: lolwhat.

13:27:02 ThickAsThieves: i was referring to TAT.AM, not DMC

13:34:09 cole_albon: ;;bc,24hprc

13:36:03 KRS1: t'sup

13:36:52 fiat500: lol 129

13:37:21 davout: yo

13:37:32 davout: does anyone here have a link to the coinlab/mtgox contract

13:39:15 ThickAsThieves: ;google original contract between Coinlab and MtGox

13:39:19 ThickAsThieves: ;;google original contract between Coinlab and MtGox

13:39:43 ThickAsThieves: it's in the first link

13:39:56 ThickAsThieves: http://www.scribd.com/doc/139181173/Contract-between-Mt-Gox-and-Coinlab

13:42:33 topace: jborkl: you there? send me a pm when you can

13:43:40 davout: ThickAsThieves: thank you, googled, but didn't think about a simple CTRL+F on the reddit thread

13:45:44 ThickAsThieves: np

13:46:05 ThickAsThieves: i havent had my coffee yet, acting like a web-jerk

13:48:07 ThickAsThieves: TAT.AM has reached 2000 issued shares today :)

13:48:30 fiat500: only 3000 to go!

13:51:10 davout: ThickAsThieves: i'd rather deal with jerks than with morons

13:51:27 ThickAsThieves: technically less than 3000, as I still hold unissued shares

13:51:32 davout: and god knows we have enough idiots

13:51:37 ThickAsThieves: hehe

13:51:51 davout: I myself stand on the divinding line, one foot on each side

13:52:52 fiat500: hold on its gonna be a rough ride

13:52:59 fiat500: nobody knows where this whole bitcoin thing is going

13:53:26 Chaaang-Noi: to the moon?

13:53:56 fiat500: that may me both good and bad

13:54:06 Chaaang-Noi: no doubt

13:54:44 Chaaang-Noi: so fiat500 since you killed my jeep dream, what about this one?

13:54:54 Chaaang-Noi: http://www.overlandparkjeepdodge.net/used/Land%20Rover/2011-Land+Rover-Range+Rover+Sport-47ede7aa0a0a0002008ff9a751f421d3.htm

13:55:44 Chaaang-Noi: oh are we at 130 already?

13:55:51 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

13:56:10 ThickAsThieves: ;;goxlag

13:56:41 ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash

13:56:41 Chaaang-Noi: ;;gribblelag

13:56:51 ThickAsThieves: ;;amhash

13:56:54 ThickAsThieves: :P

13:57:22 Chaaang-Noi: 22TH online or so i think

13:57:42 Chaaang-Noi: 129.99 but we haz a wall at 130

13:57:46 Chaaang-Noi: 4000 btc

13:59:35 fiat500: ;;asks 129.99

13:59:46 fiat500: oh lawd

14:00:18 Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130

14:00:28 kakobrekla: http://jezus.si:81/render?target=bitcoin.*.transactions&height=500&width=1100&lineMode=connected

14:00:30 kakobrekla: crazy chart

14:00:35 ThickAsThieves: why cant these speculators be reasonable

14:00:44 ThickAsThieves: like .50 a day

14:00:53 ThickAsThieves: that's plenty :)

14:01:19 fiat500: lmao

14:01:45 fiat500: there are a lot of unhappy buyers with a weighted average buy-in >160

14:02:34 fiat500: i think if we ever get close to that we're gonna see a massive crash again as they dump

14:02:56 ThickAsThieves: bubbles will be the way until we get more people in this game

14:03:15 Scrat: fiat500: nop, these people don't hold any significant amounts

14:03:34 Scrat: a small drop maybe

14:03:55 topace: i still dont get the people that bought from me at 250+

14:04:00 topace: i even told them it was a bad idea

14:04:06 topace: but they insisted i take their money

14:04:07 davout: topace: lol

14:04:09 topace: so i did

14:04:14 Scrat: little jimmy that bought at 230 because he saw it on msnbc didn't really buy a whole lot

14:04:17 fiat500: Scrat: u have numbers on that?

14:04:26 Scrat: fiat500: source: my ass

14:04:31 fiat500: i know people who bought 100+ btc at 160

14:04:36 davout: ouch

14:04:52 ThickAsThieves: i stopped paying new cash at $68

14:05:07 ThickAsThieves: seems i called it about right

14:05:12 davout: i stopped buying at 12EUR

14:05:15 davout: :-)

14:05:24 ThickAsThieves: nice

14:06:03 Scrat: you must be filthy rich davout

14:06:06 JohnGalt: bitcoin will go higher

14:06:18 davout: Scrat: believe me i'm not

14:07:17 davout: at current rates i can live comfortably a couple of years on my savings, but in my definition being filthy rich is like "i'll never work ever again, hmmm, which maserati should i get"

14:08:05 Scrat: that's like 10 million

14:08:08 Scrat: or 5

14:14:25 ThickAsThieves: count them eggs!

14:15:00 furuknap: I prefer chickens.

14:15:14 Chaaang-Noi: in my definition being filthy rich is like "i'll never work ever again, hmmm, which maserati should i get" :)

14:15:46 ThickAsThieves: i prefer cats

14:16:36 furuknap: In my definition, I've never worked a day in my life.

14:16:57 fiat500: cats is goods

14:17:09 fiat500: im bored

14:17:40 ThickAsThieves: make something

14:17:46 fiat500: ive done literally everythign i can do aside from day trade

14:18:06 fiat500: already up 50% from last week

14:18:14 ThickAsThieves: make a chan bot that shows nethash, 3-day estimate and fukll stats in one

14:18:19 ThickAsThieves: so i dont have to do this

14:18:21 ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash

14:18:26 ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate

14:18:29 ThickAsThieves: ;;bc,stats

14:18:32 fiat500: is there a bot for btct?

14:18:45 fiat500: i mean a pull bot

14:18:55 ThickAsThieves: BF needs a bot

14:19:10 ThickAsThieves: but kako and ukto are still arm wrestling

14:19:14 fiat500: lol

14:19:38 truffles: ] <ThickAsThieves> i prefer cats >>> me2

14:19:55 Chaaang-Noi: bf has a bot it is in #bitfunder

14:20:18 ThickAsThieves: i want it in here

14:20:23 ThickAsThieves: more channel spam!

14:20:35 Chaaang-Noi: spam spam soam!

14:20:36 ThickAsThieves: i also want a BTCTC chan

14:21:00 truffles: who actually joins chat rooms just to chat anyways

14:21:26 ThickAsThieves: cyberers

14:21:39 truffles: a/s/l?

14:21:50 truffles: : D

14:21:54 Scrat: 16/f/fl

14:22:10 truffles: haha

14:26:07 truffles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7RPXEeZYoE if u dont know who Hansen is

14:28:22 parseval: I'd join a btctc channel

14:44:43 truffles: sooo many predators out there

14:50:13 deadweasel: I'm a bitcoin predator

14:50:28 deadweasel: but I've never seen a bitcoin in the wild soo, i'm not long for this world.

14:50:41 deadweasel: my only regret, is that I have bonitis.

14:50:51 truffles: some of these guys are good looking, i dont get it

14:51:22 deadweasel: it's a confidence matter, low confidence means they go for low-hanging 'fruit'

14:51:35 deadweasel: i go for mediocre hanging fruit.

14:51:46 deadweasel: working my way up to top of the tree fruit.

14:51:48 truffles: me2 : D

14:52:08 deadweasel: although I'm discovering the more confidence I have the less I want a relationship.

14:52:13 truffles: i guess ppl would call it submissive

14:52:26 truffles: oh u wanna be a player?

14:52:35 Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130

14:52:46 deadweasel: truffles, no way.

14:52:53 Chaaang-Noi: wall go bigger?

14:53:17 deadweasel: ;;bids 128.5

14:53:21 truffles: what is it then deadweasel

14:53:34 deadweasel: what is what?

14:53:53 truffles: or did u want to be asexual

14:54:37 deadweasel: no no, just don't want to be with dramatic low-confidence people, it sucks the energy out of me. it's a waste of time. I can't help them and they will only drag me down.

14:54:57 truffles: wow lol

14:55:10 truffles: well d ont go for the insecure gals ldo

14:55:11 deadweasel: well, it's true.

14:55:59 truffles: imo some guys go for the dumb or insecure girls cuz it makes em feel superior..

14:58:01 Diablo-D3: meh

14:58:05 Diablo-D3: I go for the smart ones

14:58:09 Chaaang-Noi: just east to get what tehy want quickly

14:58:13 Diablo-D3: I love a smart chick

14:58:14 Chaaang-Noi: easy

15:00:05 Chaaang-Noi: Great Panther Silver Stock price: $0.78 Market Cap:$108M

15:00:05 Chaaang-Noi: ASICMiner Stock Price: BTC2.5($320) Market Cap:$128M

15:00:29 deadweasel: truffles, they go for dumb/insecure yes, but only because it's easy. The only feeling they get out of it is a blow job.

15:00:39 deadweasel: I don't think superior is the correct word for it.

15:00:40 Chaaang-Noi: :)

15:00:46 Chaaang-Noi: sometime a bj is all we want

15:00:59 truffles: simple creatures

15:01:06 deadweasel: most of the time, actually. hell, I'll settle for a handy.

15:01:21 deadweasel: i don't always have the energy for sexathons

15:01:47 truffles: go workout then

15:01:51 deadweasel: women are simple creatures too. they just want a good rogering.

15:02:16 deadweasel: truffles, that is why I don't have the energy. I did 4 hours of intense training last night, my knees barely support me today.

15:02:35 truffles: ure not a young guy eh, rogering lol

15:03:20 deadweasel: or I like colorful terms.

15:03:39 truffles: workout less ldo

15:03:47 deadweasel: would you prefer I said "they jsut want their hairy axe wound pounded"?

15:03:57 deadweasel: would that make me young again?

15:04:03 truffles: lol no

15:04:09 deadweasel: because I'm all for returning to my youth

15:04:12 truffles: who says that lol

15:04:13 deadweasel: I didn't get enough sex in my teens

15:04:25 deadweasel: fucking catholics

15:04:44 truffles: i was lucky to avoid it in my teens also

15:04:50 truffles: sex is overrated

15:04:52 deadweasel: lucky?!?!?!/

15:04:57 deadweasel: yes, overrated.

15:05:06 deadweasel: but it was not in my teens

15:05:09 truffles: stds are out there dude

15:05:34 deadweasel: what's an STD?

15:05:38 deadweasel: ;)

15:05:49 truffles: theyre mutating as we speak

15:06:21 deadweasel: i know, I'm more worried about resistant pathogens and genetic disorder being activated my modern chemicals/molecules

15:06:49 deadweasel: that and my bitcoins.

15:07:11 truffles: bitcoins are a fad though so no worries there : p

15:08:31 deadweasel: lol, no doubt. as long as I can keep taking my cut, I don't care. it may not be BTC that is the future currecny, but one of it's cousins.

15:08:48 deadweasel: i realize that. nobody can know for sure.

15:09:04 truffles: yea

15:09:22 deadweasel: frankly, I wonder where the development will come from. What if the 'devs' all go to a conference and their bus collapses through the I-5 bridge?

15:09:45 truffles: theyre all on same bus??

15:09:59 deadweasel: sure, the dev bus. they totally have those.

15:10:00 truffles: reminds me of Russian hockey team that all died on plane crash

15:10:07 deadweasel: oh ya, that's was horrible.

15:10:38 deadweasel: Sea of Ostohk had an 8.2 magnitude earthquake, possiblity for tsunami in pacific rim.

15:11:23 truffles: dunno where that is

15:13:36 deadweasel: well I don't know where you are and I still talk to you. ;P

15:13:54 joecool: deadweasel: it's a deep one though

15:14:00 joecool: deadweasel: would not be too concerned

15:14:14 deadweasel: ah, I didn't know joecool

15:14:42 joecool: yeah it's ~610KM under the ground

15:15:14 joecool: the 5.7 in cali was probably more noticable at only 11KM of depth

15:15:43 truffles: deadweasel :)

15:16:24 truffles: no quakes here so it doesnt matter rly

15:18:14 joecool: the only one i felt was the one in VA a couple years ago

15:18:25 joecool: it traveled pretty far on the east coast

15:25:38 deadweasel: I've only ever been in a 4.2 here in maine last year. I thought tanks were surrounding the building.

15:25:43 deadweasel: they were not

15:33:33 error4733: hello btcworld

15:33:41 error4733: ;;bids 0

15:33:45 error4733: ;asks 11111111111111111

15:33:50 error4733: ;;asks 111111111111111

15:37:55 truffles: ;;ticker

15:44:12 error4733: something is on the way :http://blockchained.com/depth_mtgox_15d.png

15:47:42 ThickAsThieves: whats your interpretation?

15:52:18 truffles: u find 1/4 can of alcohol, do u a) chug or b) throw out

15:53:39 joecool: could have a cigarette hiding in there

15:55:20 ThickAsThieves: 20somethings problems

15:55:32 truffles: lol

15:58:14 error4733: TAT i have no clue :D

16:00:25 error4733: first time i see the 2 line dropping in the same way, i'm confused so i sold half of my btc and bought btc with the money ! make sens no ?

16:03:39 ThickAsThieves: selling half might make sense

16:03:50 ThickAsThieves: but buying btc right after is confusing me

16:04:10 error4733: just kidding sorry

16:07:30 error4733: ;;asks 1111111111111111111111

16:08:49 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

16:22:23 Chaaang-Noi: go cog!

16:29:19 Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130

16:32:22 furuknap: Chaang, help me understand Cognitive a bit, if you please...

16:32:39 furuknap: I understand they have stuff on order and favorably so.

16:33:05 furuknap: I know what you've aid about the guy running the operation, and let's assume I trust your judgement on that.

16:33:50 Chaaang-Noi: i like this double wall

16:34:05 WILLdude: Hello

16:34:16 furuknap: What is it about the company in terms of revenue that could cause it to rise in value? It has not yielded any significant dividends so far and even with new equipment, it still would only compete with any other mining operation that gets the same equipment.

16:34:44 Chaaang-Noi: furuknap he is a long time mining op that has fpga and gpus, but is also now doing asics both bfl and avalon, its a good hedge if you hold asic miner

16:34:46 furuknap: I'm not saying it's good or bad, just trying to understand.

16:35:05 Chaaang-Noi: its only good if his bfl and or avalon stuff works out

16:35:19 Chaaang-Noi: if avalon and bfl fail forever then well AM is it...

16:35:37 Chaaang-Noi: but if you hold AM and worry about other asics then its a good option to hold some

16:35:42 furuknap: But let's assume it works out, both of them to be optimistic. What makes this asset different from other assets that also buys BFL and Avalons?

16:36:06 Chaaang-Noi: i dont know of, or trust any of the other assets

16:36:18 Chaaang-Noi: but cognitive does have very early orders at bfl

16:36:42 Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130

16:36:56 furuknap: Sure, which is an advantage short-term until BFL/Avalon/KnC/Whoever ships en masse.

16:37:07 Chaaang-Noi: yes

16:37:19 furuknap: So it's a trust thing, not a fundamental valuation. That's fine, I understand. Thanks for your input :-)

16:37:21 Chaaang-Noi: and by that time we will ahve piles of coin and be able to buy more

16:37:28 Chaaang-Noi: his electric is low and he knows what he is doing

16:37:42 Chaaang-Noi: im not attacking the others

16:37:56 Chaaang-Noi: i just dont want to get fucked over any more...

16:38:11 furuknap: Neither am I, I'm just trying to learn about the assets and what brings people to go in any direction.

16:38:28 Chaaang-Noi: i worked with the guy for over 2 eyars

16:38:36 Chaaang-Noi: thats why i got into asic miner, i knew him from befoerw

16:38:49 Chaaang-Noi: 130 gone????

16:38:53 Chaaang-Noi: fuck me

16:39:02 Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130

16:39:12 Chaaang-Noi: ????

16:39:15 Chaaang-Noi: ;;ticker

16:39:25 Chaaang-Noi: gribble is full of fail

16:39:28 furuknap: ??

16:39:33 Chaaang-Noi: ticker is over 130 but 2000 share at 130?

16:39:40 furuknap: Clark moody shows trades >130...

16:39:54 Chaaang-Noi: gribble just trollin

16:40:26 furuknap: There should be a ;;slap command.

16:40:46 WILLdude: I thought there was

16:40:53 WILLdude: ;;slap furuknap

16:40:55 Chaaang-Noi: well fuck me, here we are at 130.. and i thought we would be at 70

16:40:58 WILLdude: ;;slap furuknap

16:41:01 WILLdude: ;;slap furuknap

16:41:11 Chaaang-Noi: ;;slap gribble

16:41:17 WILLdude: ;;slap his genitals

16:41:24 Chaaang-Noi: lol

16:44:38 kakobrekla: fuckin kinds

16:44:46 kakobrekla: !r WILLdude

16:44:54 kakobrekla: see that.

16:48:27 Chaaang-Noi: 132.15 or so is the next resistance

16:50:04 furuknap: All EMAs still pointing upwards. 132 isn't going to be much of an issue.

16:50:35 fiat500: EMAs by definition cannot predict the future

16:51:24 truffles: historical prices dont predict future prices..

16:51:27 Chaaang-Noi: im not sure anything can

16:51:53 Chaaang-Noi: we all kow at any time satoshi could sell 1,000,000 btc at market price

16:52:18 Chaaang-Noi: are that buffet could market buy 100,000,000 $

16:53:36 Chaaang-Noi: we hit 132 already

16:54:56 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

16:55:05 furuknap: A lot of people still trade on EMAs, as do bots. It's no clear prediction, but an indication. The world could end tomorrow, you don't stay away from trading just because of that.

16:55:20 ThickAsThieves: this will fizzle before day's end

16:55:29 ThickAsThieves: we'll be back at 128-129

16:56:00 Chaaang-Noi: fridays for some reason have been the big days the last few weeks

16:56:49 ThickAsThieves: sure buyt we were at 123 two days ago

16:56:57 ThickAsThieves: speculators gon gpeculate

16:57:31 ThickAsThieves: either way, i'm happy to see an uptrend

17:00:04 Chaaang-Noi: up is better than down :)

17:00:26 ThickAsThieves: assuming youre holding coins, not cash

17:01:27 Chaaang-Noi: well, i gave up on my rebuy

17:01:33 Chaaang-Noi: im holding some cash as you know

17:02:03 Chaaang-Noi: even though the price is up, there is no depth, selling 1 million usd still gets less than 127 like it was 2 hours ago

17:02:15 Chaaang-Noi: bids are not getting set, its odd

17:02:42 Chaaang-Noi: we broke 132, but hit that resistance

17:03:10 bitesak: ;;ticker

17:07:26 bitesak: ;;next

17:11:40 bitesak: nice having the log.bitcoin-assets.com

17:13:24 Chaaang-Noi: bids are going down...

17:13:41 Chaaang-Noi: crazy

17:14:43 bitesak: it is mesmerizing

17:15:51 bitesak: ;;lag

17:15:54 Chaaang-Noi: jap stock market had a 12% one day fall?

17:16:08 bitesak: ;;goxlag

17:28:18 benkay: ;;ticker

17:28:49 benkay: goodness.

17:31:01 Chaaang-Noi: you guys know rg is alive and well in the #litecoin chan?

17:31:14 Chaaang-Noi: i thought he was long gone

17:32:07 truffles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhiMrEvfvo4 jokes on her, only pays for 1 year

17:32:18 kakobrekla: he is too good for btc Chaaang-Noi

17:34:04 truffles: theres a guy with alias rg that talks a lot in -otc?

17:37:28 deadweasel: i can't fucking do any work today...

17:37:42 truffles: whys that

17:37:51 deadweasel: motivatoni is at a 0

17:37:57 truffles: haha

17:38:04 truffles: maybe Esha can recharge ur batteries

17:38:07 Chaaang-Noi: i thought rg scammed or failed with bitvps or whaever

17:38:13 Chaaang-Noi: i dont know the story i guess'

17:38:32 truffles: link above deadweasel

17:39:03 deadweasel: while i'm not working at the office, I'm also not watching youtube. much easier to pretend work in terminal window

17:39:47 truffles: http://www.dailytech.com/High+School+Student+Creates+Storage+Device+that+Can+Charge+in+20+Seconds/article31580.htm

17:40:05 deadweasel: supercaps

17:40:12 deadweasel: can't wait til that goes mainstream

17:40:23 truffles: like 10 years?

17:40:28 deadweasel: dunno.

17:40:34 deadweasel: it means my railgun is not far off.

17:40:44 truffles: still waiting on this invention that protects babies in cars

17:41:10 deadweasel: www.youtube.com/watch?v=y54aLcC3G74

17:41:13 truffles: some rotating pouch ...¨

17:41:49 deadweasel: you know what protects babies in cars? the structural cage and the driver.

17:42:19 deadweasel: car seat just prevents broken babies from seatbelts/bouncing baby brains.

17:43:11 aknap3: deadweasel: you referring to this? http://blog.ted.com/2008/06/24/are_childrens_c/

17:43:54 truffles: http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/janusz-liberkowski-crowned-winner-of-abc-american-inventor-4150.php

17:44:04 deadweasel: nope, but I'll watch later, thanks aknap3

17:44:59 truffles: pretty genius invention by liberkowski

17:45:11 truffles: why do u want a rail gun?

17:45:20 deadweasel: i don't know

17:45:24 deadweasel: quake 2

17:45:26 deadweasel: is a big part of it

17:45:57 deadweasel: old desires with no real practicality.

17:46:05 truffles: if it helps with a zombi apocalypse sure

17:46:30 deadweasel: nope, not unless I had 50MW of solar power generation and shit ton of supercaps

17:49:22 truffles: ive lacked mojo past 5 days also

17:50:09 truffles: i think im going to have to watch some shark tank to help heh

17:55:49 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/453/block-239905-difficulty-will-be-an-even-number/

17:55:49 mircea_popescu: this is going well...

17:57:30 ThickAsThieves: I'm surprised that bet was allowed

17:57:35 mircea_popescu: why ?

17:57:46 ThickAsThieves: because it's way less cool than my bet

17:57:54 mircea_popescu: lol which ?

17:58:07 ThickAsThieves: Schrödinger's BitBet

17:58:07 ThickAsThieves: This bet will have more total BTC bet on Yes than on No before it closes.

17:58:19 qxzn: lol

17:58:26 qxzn: it's like satoshidice, basically

17:58:55 ThickAsThieves: now that's a bet

17:58:58 mircea_popescu: qxzn something like that

18:00:00 ThickAsThieves: bet like that could have some great earnings potential too

18:00:05 ThickAsThieves: :)

18:01:05 mircea_popescu: sounds more like a dollar auction.

18:02:36 deadweasel: it does

18:02:49 deadweasel: you'd make a lot in bets that were sent just past closing too

18:03:01 deadweasel: trying to get in at the last second with a big bet

18:03:04 ThickAsThieves: yep

18:03:31 ThickAsThieves: could end in some tears

18:03:35 deadweasel: many

18:03:42 mircea_popescu: yeah, too bfl-ish i think

18:03:53 mircea_popescu: this is just a clean cut cointoss

18:04:05 ThickAsThieves: yeah it was rejected a while back, but a man can dream

18:04:17 mircea_popescu: did you zeroconf it ?

18:04:43 ThickAsThieves: what's a zeroconf?

18:04:53 mircea_popescu: you can send btc in as you make the bet

18:04:56 ThickAsThieves: oh

18:04:59 ThickAsThieves: probly not

18:05:02 ThickAsThieves: but i could

18:05:04 Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 135

18:05:07 ThickAsThieves: if that's all it takes

18:05:09 deadweasel: sorta seals the deal, makes it more likely to get posted

18:05:18 mircea_popescu: why would you.

18:05:29 Scrat: i am in that bitbet

18:05:34 Scrat: ;;bids 0

18:05:45 mircea_popescu: Scrat which one ?

18:05:51 deadweasel: Scrat, odd or even?

18:05:56 Scrat: small one ofc

18:06:20 Scrat: I won't say!

18:06:27 mircea_popescu: kik

18:06:33 ThickAsThieves: scrat is a math genie

18:06:42 ThickAsThieves: i bet he sorted that one has higher odds

18:08:02 ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash

18:08:15 ThickAsThieves: ;;bc,stats

18:09:08 qxzn: the only thing that interests me about the difficulty bet is arbing it when it strays from 505

18:09:12 qxzn: 50-50

18:09:42 qxzn: does bitbet have any decent kind of api?

18:10:10 mircea_popescu: qxzn what specifically ?

18:10:33 ThickAsThieves: not like you could ensure your bet doesnt set it off balance

18:12:43 qxzn: mircea_popescu I haven't looked closely at bitbet yet, but like getting the current odds and the sizes behind the odds, I suppose.

18:12:59 qxzn: ThickAsThieves really that's not calculatable with published information?

18:13:41 mircea_popescu: i think you'll have to talk to kakobrekla about that.

18:13:45 mircea_popescu: shouldn't be too hard.

18:14:10 mircea_popescu: the depositing part works by design in the sense that once you get an addy you can use it for as long as the bet exists

18:15:15 qxzn: mircea_popescu It's funny, I actually tend not to encourage sites to make apis as I know I can screen-scrape and have less competition :P

18:15:44 kakobrekla: uh i hope you use some html dom instead

18:15:51 kakobrekla: of screen scrape

18:15:56 mircea_popescu: yeah i was gonna say, it's pretty much in the html dom

18:16:03 qxzn: kokbrekla yeah that's what I mean

18:16:11 qxzn: indeed

18:17:06 ThickAsThieves: if i had a site like that I'd fuck with the html daily to mess with botters

18:17:21 mircea_popescu: why ?

18:17:40 ThickAsThieves: i think bitting is bad for relatively small markets

18:18:00 mircea_popescu: i don't see the problem. people setting their own bots to marketmake provides liquidity.

18:18:03 ThickAsThieves: potentially zerosum liquidity, adn deters humans

18:18:21 ThickAsThieves: everything that is bitcoin, needs more humans

18:18:27 mircea_popescu: why'd deter humans ? recall, this is parimutuel. humans knowing their bets will be covered is encouraging

18:18:30 ThickAsThieves: that is what benefits it most

18:18:59 ThickAsThieves: because a human will give up fighting a penny bot

18:19:10 ThickAsThieves: and get frustrated

18:19:12 ThickAsThieves: and trade less

18:19:54 mircea_popescu: how would a human fight a penny bettor exactly ?

18:20:06 mircea_popescu: the human either has a side or doesn't. if he doesn't he;s not betting anyway.

18:20:19 ThickAsThieves: i'm a heavy trader

18:20:21 qxzn: parimutuel betting is over my head. no wonder mircea_popescu likes it, it's complicated like options.

18:20:22 ThickAsThieves: and it deters me

18:20:25 mircea_popescu: if he does he's glad to hear somebody will cover the odds.

18:21:02 mircea_popescu: lol

18:21:11 qxzn: mircea_popescu this is a losing argument

18:21:11 ThickAsThieves: it would be hard, but I wish there was a way to study it

18:21:17 ThickAsThieves: on something like BTCTC

18:21:19 qxzn: people "just don't like" bots

18:21:25 qxzn: it's not rational

18:21:41 qxzn: except when they are capable of creating their own, of course

18:21:43 mircea_popescu: ok let's go into a little detail.

18:21:43 qxzn: then they like them

18:21:49 mircea_popescu: suppose this bet, with a clear 50-50 odds

18:21:54 mircea_popescu: suppose somebody wants to bet 5 btc

18:22:02 mircea_popescu: if he does and it goes to 18-13 and stays there

18:22:08 mircea_popescu: our guy gets worse than 50-50 odds

18:22:19 mircea_popescu: if he knows a bot will cover to 18-18 then he knows he gets fair odds

18:22:21 mircea_popescu: bots = good news.

18:22:34 ThickAsThieves: i was referring to stock exchanges

18:22:39 ThickAsThieves: not a one-off bet

18:22:41 mircea_popescu: well that's a diff story.

18:23:16 ThickAsThieves: indeed

18:23:23 qxzn: if you are trying to provide liquidity on a stock exchange without a computer, you're going to be frustrated

18:23:23 ThickAsThieves: i mixed it in, apologies

18:23:42 qxzn: but if you are trying to take liquidity, you might be glad there are bots

18:23:46 qxzn: tighter spreads

18:24:06 qxzn: (by "without a computer" i mean "without a bot")

18:24:38 ThickAsThieves: i manage,

18:24:44 ThickAsThieves: but yes it frustrates me

18:25:22 ThickAsThieves: and i imagine it frustrates the newly initiated

18:25:32 ThickAsThieves: which are very valuable to these exchanges

18:25:51 qxzn: eh, I'm skeptical of the valuable of having a bunch of novice traders bouncing around these exchanges

18:25:58 qxzn: the value*

18:26:08 ThickAsThieves: an exchange doesn tcare what kind of experience you have

18:26:12 ThickAsThieves: just your volume

18:26:47 mircea_popescu: <qxzn> eh, I'm skeptical of the valuable of having a bunch of novice traders bouncing around these exchanges <<

18:26:53 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the exchange does care.

18:27:02 mircea_popescu: the thing that doesn't care is a bucket shop.

18:27:18 ThickAsThieves: can you not picture an envorinment where people say "I dont trade on X, too many f'n bots"

18:27:56 jborkl: I anyone is interested, O.USD.P125N < I will sell these puts starting tomorrow = bot current price * .75 = my price

18:28:13 jborkl: If

18:30:09 topace: !ticker h asicm

18:30:19 qxzn: There are a couple reasons to trade. 1: you are investing. In that case, you don't care about bots. 2: you are arbing/providing liquidity. in that case, you should have bots because it's more efficient in terms of human labor. 3: you are speculating / doing "thinky" fundamentals trading. see case 1.

18:31:35 ThickAsThieves: is there not added risk to using a bot?

18:32:09 ThickAsThieves: couldnt it be left holding the bag on a big move?

18:32:33 ThickAsThieves: it's not my area

18:32:51 mircea_popescu: sure you could

18:32:52 qxzn: well yes, there are some particular cases where you can beat the bot

18:33:00 mircea_popescu: just like the bot that went deeply into the bitbet bet thinking it's 50-50

18:33:07 qxzn: :)

18:33:10 mircea_popescu: but then it's discovered the code is bad and odd is twice as common as even

18:33:16 qxzn: exactly

18:33:29 qxzn: I sorta throw all that into my case #3

18:33:37 qxzn: thinky trading

18:33:44 mircea_popescu: person knowing it's really 2/3 rather than 50-50 could basically take all the bot's liquidity

18:34:04 qxzn: bot writers have to be careful about not having their house completely cleaned out

18:34:19 ThickAsThieves: i imagine stock exchange bots could also be gamed then

18:34:19 qxzn: there are ways to game bots if you are clever, and the bot isn't defensively enough written

18:34:27 ThickAsThieves: like if i wanna find it's lowest ask

18:34:34 ThickAsThieves: i could keep pushing an ask of my own

18:34:39 qxzn: yes, but you won't beat my bots that way :)

18:35:37 ThickAsThieves: maybe i should start a bot-hunting team

18:35:48 ThickAsThieves: lynch all you nerds!

18:35:49 ThickAsThieves: :)

18:35:54 qxzn: please do!

18:36:03 qxzn: make markets more efficient :)

18:36:04 inhies: bot vs bots

18:36:10 inhies: read an article that touched on that

18:36:32 ThickAsThieves: i know Deprived has some experience in that area

18:36:32 inhies: knowing the trading patterns of other bots, when the mean bot saw that the nice bot was gonna start buying, mean bot buys first and then sells to nice bot at a markup

18:36:59 jborkl: I will also be selling O.USD.C170N = Same terms as above. bot price * 0.75 = my price

18:39:47 furuknap: Bot market trading is really just the first step of the battle of man versus machine. Soon, they'll start developing weapons and our bodies will be props in the next Terminator movie.

18:40:35 taub: thehehe

18:40:45 inhies: furuknap: i can only hope :D

18:41:36 john_connor: Bah...

18:43:02 ThickAsThieves: meant to change to Adama, lol

18:43:39 jborkl: whats up queen Amadala

18:43:47 jborkl: How is your planet

18:49:46 furuknap: Seems Tyfus is taking to his senses on the 100TH thing too. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2258584#msg2258584

18:50:27 furuknap: Bah, tytus... That _was_ an honest mistake...

18:51:40 mircea_popescu: furuknap https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2254951#msg2254951

18:51:42 mircea_popescu: you seen that ?

18:52:19 jborkl: the bitbet on diff. what digit determines the even number?

18:52:26 furuknap: Yup, responded too: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2255369#msg2255369

18:52:38 jborkl: 11 million is 1 and 1, but 21 million is 2 and 1

18:55:08 mircea_popescu: jborkl huh ?

18:59:03 furuknap: The mining asset market is completely bonkers. Absolutely insane. Its investors are equally utterly and undeniably mad. Most likley, that includes me. There, now I said it. Carry on.

18:59:45 deadweasel: truth

19:00:32 deadweasel: i've spent more time and money setting up my miners than I'll EVAR get back.

19:00:41 deadweasel: so miners are batshit too.

19:00:48 furuknap: Miners themselves are even more crazy.

19:00:57 furuknap: Yeah, and that includes me too :-)

19:01:41 deadweasel: i think the whole of BTC are borderline personalities

19:01:44 deadweasel: i love it

19:01:46 deadweasel: i'm home

19:01:48 deadweasel: :)

19:01:52 furuknap: :-D

19:07:26 mircea_popescu: not particularly mad. just very foolish.

19:08:22 furuknap: I would argue mad, and by mad I mean that there is no correlation between numbers and decisions and people seem to not notice in the least.

19:09:05 furuknap: Let me take one example, not very taken out of thin air, and not meant to talk anyone or thing down...

19:09:14 Diablo-D3: so

19:09:26 Diablo-D3: one AM share is worth 2.5 BTC?

19:09:54 furuknap: PAJKA bonds are nice little animals run by a seemingly honest person that has been chugging along nicely and yielding a reasonable profit.

19:10:42 furuknap: However, they are capped now at 3MH/s per share and will forever be capped at 15 MH/s when their new ASICs arrive. Which is fine. It's a fixed rate, people should know what they're buying.

19:12:08 furuknap: Then there's 100TH, which granted isn't delivering yet, but let's just forego that and chalk it up to risk and look at expected revenue. 100TH is fixed at 200MH/s, and if things go according to plan, that will be operational sometime this summer, let's sau August to pick a date.

19:12:47 jurov: ...and while everyone is expertly smelling and analyzing mining turds, never before seen pattern emerges unnoticed: *both* s.mpoe and btcusd go up... causes me goosebumps.

19:13:40 furuknap: You would somehow expect that if PAJKA (or any other bond, really, I'm not picking on them) would be dropping in price to match the value of the share once more powerful bonds like 100TH (or anyone, really and I'm not praising them either) come online.

19:14:31 ThickAsThieves: personally i dont understand why anyone would buy a fixed-hash mining asset, unless they were trying to short-term speculate to sell

19:15:10 ThickAsThieves: at least with AM, you know they will hold a % of the network

19:15:13 furuknap: This is the halving effect I've been touting for the past few weeks in practice. We know that once a more powerful bond comes online, the less powerful bonds will drop in dividends. It's simple math, plus and minus. So why aren't anyone even noticing this?

19:15:53 mircea_popescu: furuknap you seem so unaware of the fundamental problems of mining for some reason

19:16:00 ThickAsThieves: AM has commited to a minimum of 10% of the network

19:16:05 mircea_popescu: here's a hint : it is not, overall, a profitable venture on a cash basis approach

19:16:08 furuknap: mp, what would that be.

19:16:12 ThickAsThieves: and more likely will hold 25%

19:16:58 furuknap: Oh, I know that. Mining is an investment in dropping prices. I hate it every time I see BTC go up because I hold some mining

19:17:14 furuknap: *...I hold some mining assets

19:17:24 mircea_popescu: there's much more to it than that

19:18:09 jborkl: The quality of the mining operator, makes a huge difference. A technically challenged person will have a very hard time- even with good equipment

19:18:13 furuknap: I also know that, I'm a big fan of numbersd, remember? :-) I've run the scenarios so many times I see Excel sheets in the back of my eyelids when I blink.

19:18:33 ThickAsThieves: you must be overcomplicating it

19:18:54 jborkl: A very technically proficient operator with poorer equipment, can still do well. You have to be good though

19:19:03 mircea_popescu: not even!

19:19:11 furuknap: not even what?

19:21:52 mircea_popescu: furuknap https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201268.msg2121475#msg2121475

19:21:55 mircea_popescu: read that quote.

19:23:20 furuknap: I've read it previously. I was attending that thread a bit later on.

19:24:32 mircea_popescu: okay. the point remains : buffett's dilemma

19:24:40 mircea_popescu: worse than fx issues, worse than the abundance of scammers,

19:24:47 ThickAsThieves: the quote is great insight, but we don't know WHEN that will happen

19:24:49 mircea_popescu: mining is a commodified market with large excess capacity

19:24:55 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it happens all the time.

19:25:17 ThickAsThieves: but it could take 2 years for AM to lose dominance

19:25:31 ThickAsThieves: likely less

19:25:36 furuknap: The commoditizaion is why I want to look at profitability in mining companies over the long term, and thus why I sold out of AM earlier.

19:25:45 ThickAsThieves: but can they not stay a leg up for the foreeable future?

19:25:51 mircea_popescu: i am personally convinced that satoshi deliberately created the mining trap

19:26:09 mircea_popescu: as a way to even the playing field (figuring moneyed interest will fall in, independent geeky types will avoid it)

19:26:19 mircea_popescu: it's fascinating to me to see that it's mostly the idnependents falling in it.

19:26:23 mircea_popescu: but this off teh records.

19:26:43 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the problem is not that. the problem is the maintenance cost of that dominance

19:26:49 mircea_popescu: which is not offset by any dominance benefit.

19:27:16 ThickAsThieves: the benefit is that AM both sells textiles AND sewing machines

19:27:40 ThickAsThieves: they can tilt to hardware sales

19:27:46 ThickAsThieves: as appropriate

19:28:01 ThickAsThieves: they already do

19:28:16 ThickAsThieves: no one is shipping, so they will ship

19:28:41 furuknap: mp, I think I also spoke to that no later than today somewhere :-) Look, I think I understand what you mean, and if I do, my analysis follows that suit, albeit with likely different evaluations of risk and hope.

19:29:50 ThickAsThieves: the life of the mining hardware sales market is surely longer than the mining farm efforts

19:30:25 ThickAsThieves: so maybe AM becomes the HP of mining computers

19:30:38 ThickAsThieves: or whichever PC maker example you prefer

19:30:42 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves that's not a benefit

19:30:42 mircea_popescu: the value of the sweing machines is strictly in cutting its textile market

19:30:52 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves that's pretty much the only actual alpha scenario here.

19:31:02 ThickAsThieves: the machines are sold at a premium now

19:31:14 ThickAsThieves: priced right on the line of reasonable ROI

19:31:20 ThickAsThieves: this is better than hashing

19:31:25 ThickAsThieves: no?

19:31:47 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves inasmuch as the machines are sold for more than they're worth, the people buying are making a loss

19:31:54 ThickAsThieves: right

19:31:55 mircea_popescu: there's a finite loss to be thus funneled into investor pockets.

19:32:02 mircea_popescu: otherwise, it'd have been better to not sell them at all.

19:32:04 mircea_popescu: so not really.

19:32:27 ThickAsThieves: but it protects the operation from other mining farms

19:32:45 ThickAsThieves: they are mining those blade's lifespand in one sale

19:32:48 ThickAsThieves: now

19:32:53 mircea_popescu: furuknap nothing wriong with that

19:33:29 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves taking the burlington example, the only +ev move is if the war comes and they're converting to making ammo and selling it to the brits on us guaranteed credit.

19:33:44 mircea_popescu: so ya, maybe we end up with alien messages and am gets a 1.5bn govt grant to crack it

19:33:53 ThickAsThieves: hehe

19:33:56 mircea_popescu: then there's added value to the pool and everyone's happy

19:34:06 mircea_popescu: but on the game as it is, the problem looms.

19:34:36 ThickAsThieves: well, i'll get on the board and warn them

19:34:37 ThickAsThieves: ;)

19:34:58 ThickAsThieves: NEVER FORGET BURLINGTON !

19:37:00 furuknap: Meanwhile...

19:37:03 furuknap: ;;ticker

19:37:19 mircea_popescu: nice.

19:47:14 furuknap: "And to sweeten the deal and get those shares moving I've decided to chuck in my bitcoin advertising earnings from my NSFW monetized Porn blogs as a monthly bonus dividend" <- I mean, c'mon, how can one _not_ take the mining asset market seriously?

19:47:55 furuknap: "Yeah, we'll develop and sell iPads and iPhones and iMacs and stuff, but we'll also throw in the tips we get from stripping at the local joint"

19:48:50 ThickAsThieves: I was considering waiving my mgmt fee for a while

19:48:51 mircea_popescu: wait what ?!

19:49:14 mircea_popescu: link pls

19:49:15 furuknap: The later one was my parody in an Apple shareholder agreement, if that's what surprised you.

19:49:34 furuknap: https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/TRIPLE-B-MINING#tab6

19:49:52 mircea_popescu: this shit's pretty good.

19:50:46 furuknap: Yeah, for some definition of 'good'.

20:12:14 ThickAsThieves: pics of the USB miners https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=195052.msg2249127#msg2249127

20:13:07 deadweasel: not a glowing report

20:13:12 deadweasel: but looks fancy

20:13:26 deadweasel: novelty

20:13:46 ThickAsThieves: he resolved his install issue

20:13:50 ThickAsThieves: if thats what you mean

20:14:01 ThickAsThieves: they mine at +10% advertised

20:18:02 kakobrekla: this arklan dude is some reseller?

20:18:10 kakobrekla: ah i see in topic

20:18:10 kakobrekla: nvm

20:19:55 fiat500: next stop: BTCUSD $1337

20:20:39 furuknap: ;;ticker

20:20:57 furuknap: Just remove 2. from best ask and you're virtually there.

20:21:29 mircea_popescu: lol

20:21:42 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu sending you a pm real quick

20:21:49 mircea_popescu: ye

20:22:08 fiat500: naked pics?

20:22:37 mircea_popescu: ;;google internet story

20:22:40 mircea_popescu: aww

20:22:55 fiat500: lmfao

20:23:00 fiat500: i saw it

20:23:07 fiat500: "<3 mircea"

20:23:19 fiat500: and some eastern european titties

20:23:27 fiat500: fine ones at that

20:26:01 mircea_popescu: they're american titties.

20:26:26 fiat500: well, perhaps shot in america, but they are probably from the ukraine

20:29:07 fiat500: interesting, that was 1 purchase of 1PT offset by sale of 100 100PT shares

20:29:30 BitHub: AM TANKING

20:29:45 ThickAsThieves: panic!

20:29:50 aknap3: woohoo

20:29:51 topace: DUMP DUMP DUMP!

20:29:59 fiat500: really stupid actually

20:30:02 fiat500: if that was the same person

20:30:24 fiat500: his 100PT shares were cheaper, even considering the 5% tribute to TAT

20:30:30 aknap3: If I were to dump, I'd do it on a Tuesday

20:30:59 aknap3: but I don't have any shares right now :)

20:31:10 fiat500: aknap3: why tuesday

20:31:12 ThickAsThieves: prices seem to be generally lower on Fri/Sat

20:31:19 ThickAsThieves: and Higher Mon/Tue

20:31:23 fiat500: interesting

20:31:26 aknap3: fiat500: full of hope for divs

20:31:37 aknap3: hope fetches higher prices than reality

20:31:41 aknap3: also why I like calls so much

20:31:54 fiat500: divs are just silly

20:32:07 ThickAsThieves: also, BTC/USD is up

20:32:11 ThickAsThieves: and some want to capitalize

20:32:19 fiat500: i mean, its going to take 6 months worth of divs to make an amount equivalent to what ive made simply due to appreciation

20:32:23 aknap3: that'll cause a temporery dip

20:32:39 aknap3: then when BTC/USD drops, bunch of cheaply gained BTC enters the market and buys wrecklessly

20:32:45 fiat500: so selling before divs is a great idea assuming theres panic buying before

20:33:17 ThickAsThieves: it kind of gets real quite immediately before divs

20:33:19 fiat500: aknap3: thats actually more likely once the ASICS reach mainstream

20:33:22 fiat500: looking forward to it

20:33:22 ThickAsThieves: so you have to time it right

20:33:25 ThickAsThieves: also,

20:33:33 ThickAsThieves: this can all be thrown out the window,

20:33:58 ThickAsThieves: dpending on when friedcat processes xfers to exchanges

20:34:07 fiat500: heh

20:34:10 ThickAsThieves: which are not predictable

20:34:11 aknap3: that's the black swan

20:34:33 furuknap: mp, I hadn't seen that internet story video. Very, very cool, thanks for sharing.

20:34:59 fiat500: lmfao

20:39:10 fiat500: interesting that all this movement is on BTCT but HI is quiet

20:39:23 fiat500: anyone here trade on havelock?

20:39:39 aknap3: I have an account there. tried it once.

20:39:54 aknap3: TAT seems to like the issuer interface

20:40:48 aknap3: I think the setup for transfering between there and mpex has great potential, actually a model that should be copied

20:40:56 topace: :)

20:40:57 topace: thanks

20:41:08 topace: <-- i run havelock

20:41:20 aknap3: topace: didn't think you were paying attention :)

20:41:43 aknap3: for my own trading, I don't use it because I prefer to play options

20:42:31 topace: i glance here from time to time

20:42:32 topace: :)

20:42:57 aknap3: but I'd be there all the time otherwise -- plus, I'm Canadian

20:44:03 topace: hehe well, options might be coming soon (tm) to a havelock investments near you!

20:44:38 aknap3: cool

20:48:47 jurov: ;;bc,stats

20:49:32 fiat500: topace: cool, thinking of moving some coins to trade there

20:49:38 furuknap: That's a petty change...

20:51:33 fiat500: good thing i didnt bother with difficulty futures :P

20:53:30 ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate

20:54:34 furuknap: Fascinating. This has been an announcement about an observation of no relatable quality.

20:56:55 jurov: ;;next

20:57:08 jurov: hohohoooo

21:15:31 ThickAsThieves: 2000 new shares on BTCTC, lol

21:16:16 aknap3: ouch

21:17:36 ThickAsThieves: that explains the selloff earlier

21:23:28 fiat500: ThickAsThieves: aha, and explains the lack of movement elsewhere

21:23:31 fiat500: thanks for pointing it out

21:27:05 parseval: I'm glad that worked for you inhies

21:50:17 pgp: question: is there anything preventing the creation of a transaction for 0 BTC, but with a miner fee so that it would pickup up?

21:54:21 pgp: the reason i ask is that all the passthru nonsense seems so cumbersome - seems to me like you could use the block chain to move shares around, no?

21:54:39 furuknap: Colored coins?

21:54:54 fiat500: the passthrough makes it easier to trade on an exchange

21:55:32 pgp: but they're not fungible

21:57:12 pgp: why not imbed them in the blockchain in the comments field - seems to me that it could be done pretty easily so your shares could exist in your wallet and could be moved to where you want

21:57:49 pgp: provided, of course, that every agrees on a format for such a comments

21:59:32 kakobrekla: 23:50.17 ( pgp ) question: is there anything preventing the creation of a transaction for 0 BTC, < yes, with 0.8xx theres a min set... cant have txes smaller than i dont remember howmany satoshi

22:02:33 fiat500: pgp: some of them are fungible

22:03:11 pgp: yes, but you have to push the shares, requires someone to do it for you, etc

22:03:15 fiat500: blockchain is not the most efficient data structure for this kind of stuff

22:03:21 fiat500: when you are distributing dividends etc

22:03:32 jurov: pgp i actually stumbled upon similar txs

22:03:39 jurov: some outputs were 0

22:04:04 pgp: seems to me that you could use the blockchain for lots of stuff besides BTC

22:04:31 pgp: but if there is a min quantity, that's a problem

22:04:40 mircea_popescu: pgp 0tx are nonstandard

22:04:46 mircea_popescu: (meaning they won't get picked up)

22:04:52 fiat500: yeah you could use it to communicate video data if you want but its not an efficient way to do it

22:04:58 pgp: even with a miner fee?

22:05:08 mircea_popescu: as to the blockchain shares, it's called colored coins. it has it's own problems

22:05:10 mircea_popescu: ;;google why i nixed jazz

22:05:30 mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of miner fees. nonstandard tx are not relayed.

22:05:36 jurov: pgp, for sharing big data in blockchain-esqe way, there's freenetproject

22:05:58 pgp: but to decentralize the ledgering of othe assets seems like an intersting application

22:05:59 jurov: ut as it has limited capacity, it forgets unused files

22:07:13 jurov: you did read fraudsters treatise on the decentralized exchanges?

22:08:08 jurov: so i think yes the ownership can and will be tracked by some blockchain mechanism

22:08:17 jurov: but markets will stay centralized

22:09:02 pgp: I did not read the fraudsters article about decentralized exchanges - link?

22:09:30 jurov: [00:05] just below <mircea_popescu> ;;google why i nixed jazz

22:13:12 pgp: yeah, so what about it?

22:14:36 pgp: I'm refering to a idea about moving asset custody. For example, why not have a mechnism "like" the blockchain to move ASICM to whatever exchange you want.

22:14:48 pgp: or keep it in you own wallet

22:15:07 fiat500: exchanges have no incentive to implement that

22:15:35 pgp: but an issuer would

22:15:54 pgp: public ledger would make divs a breeze

22:17:01 mircea_popescu: it's a bad idea.

22:17:17 pgp: are you a bit biased?

22:17:26 mircea_popescu: ;/

22:17:33 furuknap: Problem 0

22:17:41 mircea_popescu: you know this is diosxcussed in the article you apparently don't want to read.

22:18:11 pgp: I read it - what are you specifically referring to?

22:18:22 pgp: problem 0?

22:18:27 furuknap: [00:17] <furuknap> Problem 0

22:19:02 mircea_popescu: that i am not biased, but in a perfect position to implement it

22:19:06 mircea_popescu: if it actually were a good idea.

22:19:07 mircea_popescu: it's not.

22:19:58 furuknap: I'll still argue that you're stuck, though, mp. Colored coins in the BTC blockchain may not work, but nothing prevents an alternate chain, tailored to the needs of an asset market, to evolve. Thinking in terms of what is possible or conceivable now is limiting.

22:20:12 furuknap: *from evolving.

22:20:15 mircea_popescu: that's not the objection.

22:20:26 mircea_popescu: the objection is that this thing wouldn't actually add any benefit.

22:20:55 pgp: what is meant by colored coins?

22:21:09 mircea_popescu: creating some special coins which denote ownership of shares.

22:22:02 furuknap: It would add benefit if it could solve problems that an asset market has or will get.

22:22:13 mircea_popescu: furuknap such as ?

22:22:34 furuknap: We may not see that right now, but none of us saw in 2008 what problems Bitcoin would solve either. Otherwise, we'd be called Satoshi Nakamoto.

22:23:13 mircea_popescu: no, actually i saw the problems

22:23:17 mircea_popescu: what i didn't see was the solution

22:23:21 mircea_popescu: not even by a long shot.

22:23:34 furuknap: That's one of the things that fascinate me with cryptocurrencies; it allows us to explore (and in altcoin land, test) new ideas for working with values.

22:23:55 mircea_popescu: but sure, in general speaking the world is not complete so you never know.

22:25:29 furuknap: OK, so here's one problem that current asset market doesn't solve. Insider trading or what we consider unethical price manipulation, legal or otherwise. I don't have a solution, but a BTC-based or derived system may bring forth ideas that could control or somehow reverse illegal actions, as defined by whatever jurisdiction.

22:26:31 mircea_popescu: reverse ?

22:26:47 mircea_popescu: you want a reversible altchain ?

22:27:18 furuknap: I don't know, that's the point. If I had the solution, I would tell you, honestly :-)

22:27:29 mircea_popescu: well supposedly colored coins are the solution

22:27:38 mircea_popescu: what we're looking for is a conceivable problem they might solve.

22:27:56 furuknap: For instance, again not particularly thought out, bans on shares held by denoted key insiders before or during important events. A deadlock on trades with those shares could reverse the trade (to be declared to the buyer) if breach of whatever happened.

22:28:56 mircea_popescu: you'd never know the insider handles. kinda the point of crypto currency

22:29:05 TomServo: Would it somehow allow a failed exchange to transfer shares to another? Or is that not even an issue?

22:29:24 furuknap: Again, now you're thinking in BTC mode.

22:29:31 TomServo: Or an owner of assets on a failed exchange, I should say.

22:29:57 mircea_popescu: TomServo well i don't see how it'd do better than what's currently in place atm

22:30:02 mircea_popescu: (see bitvps transfer)

22:31:18 FabianB: not much difference between failed (dead) altcoin and failed exchange

22:31:23 TomServo: I will take a look. Honestly, I don't know much other than it sounds like the glbse closure was a fuckshow.

22:33:21 qxzn: Has anyone else noticed that BTCTC could easily stand for BTC Trash Can?

22:33:40 mircea_popescu: how charitable

22:33:56 mircea_popescu: TomServo bitvps was transferred off mpex

22:33:59 TomServo: mircea_popescu: I didn't realize bitvps was listed on mpex originally. Why the transfer?

22:34:14 mircea_popescu: list of holder gpg keys encrypted with owner's key publioshed on btctalk

22:34:39 mircea_popescu: http://polimedia.us/fraudsters/2013/sbvps-delisting-notice/

22:35:03 mircea_popescu: and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76506.msg1531701#msg1531701 for the actual thing.

22:35:19 mircea_popescu: unlike the horrorshow of glbse etc emails, this is the actual standard i'd say.

22:37:31 BitHub: hey mp do you have mpex upgrade/revampl plans for the next few months posted on your blog i could read about?

22:37:49 mircea_popescu: um

22:38:13 mircea_popescu: http://polimedia.us/fraudsters/2013/so-whats-the-plan-with-mpoempex/

22:38:16 mircea_popescu: that's about it.

22:38:33 BitHub: thank you :)

22:39:30 BitHub: ahh back from feb, not much changing from that?

22:39:34 jurov: !ticker m s.mpoe

22:39:48 qxzn: pgp: "I'm refering to a idea about moving asset custody. For example, why not have a mechnism "like" the blockchain to move ASICM to whatever exchange you want." this sounds a lot like ripple

22:40:46 mircea_popescu: BitHub only been a few months. plans for years.

22:41:07 pgp: ok - so - why are "colored coins" such a bad idea? I am not suggesting any sort of p2p exchange, just ledgering and the ability to trade you shares on differenet exchanges.

22:41:24 BitHub: any new ipo's coming up?

22:41:35 pgp: ripple is flawed

22:42:01 pgp: but their consensus engine does seem interesting

22:42:33 BitHub: just analysing what i should do with the mpoe stock

22:42:37 qxzn: the problem is that shares on one exchange have different value than shares on another exchange

22:42:54 qxzn: mostly because of variance in counterparty risk

22:43:01 BitHub: i would actually like to sign up and use it, something different from BF and btct

22:43:13 mircea_popescu: BitHub yes, actually.

22:43:13 BitHub: but don't think its really suited for me atm

22:43:37 mircea_popescu: pgp for one, you will have the normal confirmation delay. for the other, how do you pay the miners ?

22:43:44 BitHub: cool

22:43:48 mircea_popescu: for the yet another, how do you pay the devs

22:45:02 BitHub: i really miss glbse

22:45:42 pgp: yes, but let's look at how it work for financial markets. I can hold a stock certificate in my name (personal wallet), or I can deposit with my broker and put it in "street" name (broker's wallet and trade it on an exchange - ANY exchange - in the US that would mean 7 major exchanges, but 20 or so dark pools. Every share is identical and fungible.

22:45:57 mircea_popescu: right

22:46:08 mircea_popescu: BitHub why ?

22:46:09 pgp: I don't care about delay, just the ability to move it

22:46:21 TomServo: pgp: I think opentransactions might be the thing you're looking for.

22:46:34 mircea_popescu: is that thing still actively tinkered on ?

22:46:46 BitHub: idont know it just exciting when it first was around

22:47:11 mircea_popescu: pgp afaik these days stock certs are mostly digital

22:47:22 mircea_popescu: you can "own" it but in the terms of, some clearance corp saying so and that's all there is.

22:47:38 mircea_popescu: nobody wants to administer the physical stuff anymore, too expensive, forgeries etc

22:48:01 TomServo: mircea_popescu: you asking if open-transactions is being tinkered on/

22:48:05 mircea_popescu: yea

22:48:11 TomServo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0;all

22:48:13 mircea_popescu: i recall looking at it early 2012 or so

22:48:14 TomServo: that was pretty recent

22:48:18 TomServo: and compelling

22:48:19 mircea_popescu: even sponsoring it a little.

22:48:21 BitHub: what if exchanges agreed to allow users from one exchange to exchange the same shares with another user on another asset exchange

22:48:27 mircea_popescu: but, it never seemed to go very far for some reason.

22:48:44 mircea_popescu: BitHub htye already do, for pretty much all mpex shares

22:48:50 mircea_popescu: you can trade the pt to the share and back

22:49:15 BitHub: nice

22:49:19 pgp: i see

22:50:32 BitHub: some mpex BF intergration would be sweet

22:50:39 pgp: btw, you most certainly can request a stock certificate at any time - hassle and not common - but people do it for many reasons

22:51:23 BitHub: digital stock cert could be linked to a qr code or something <--n00b at this stuff

22:51:58 pgp: but having some sort of non exchange controlled mechanism to prove, for example, that there are no conterfiet share out there, seems like a worthy goal

22:52:41 mircea_popescu: the mpex dividend actually tests for this

22:52:49 pgp: a public ledger

22:52:55 mircea_popescu: as it won't push out div if the share count is > the declared count

22:53:00 pgp: or anonymous addresses

22:53:07 pgp: blockchain

22:53:15 pgp: or really, an altchain

22:53:24 mircea_popescu: listen, an altchain is not trustworthy in pricniple.

22:53:30 pgp: *of* anonymous addresses

22:53:32 mircea_popescu: it only becomes trustworthy if very much used.

22:53:35 mircea_popescu: tons of mining

22:53:35 mircea_popescu: etc.

22:54:00 mircea_popescu: this fetish people have for blockchains is being exploited atm by all the altchain scams.

22:54:26 mircea_popescu: fact is an altchain is trustworthy just for being an altchain to the same degree that written text can be trusted just for being written on paper.

22:54:36 mircea_popescu: paper will take anything, the blockchain idea will take anything.

22:54:50 BitHub: BF mpex intergration example, i could have an account at bf and mpex and buy shares from bf and transfer it to mpex for a fee, both exchanges share the fee. Now i can trade my sdice shares on mpex, vice versa

22:55:13 BitHub: ahhbitraage

22:55:51 mircea_popescu: BitHub people; actually do this already

22:55:56 mircea_popescu: i dont recall whio's running the hf pt.

22:56:18 BitHub: true? i would love to understand it

22:58:17 BitHub: ore just see more seamless intergration between btct, mpex, havelock, BF

22:59:32 pgp: ok - so the sort of thing that is possible today is much like ADR and ordinary shares. They are convertible for a fee, they trade on different exchange, and it's a hassle to convert.

22:59:59 pgp: but it the only solution for dealing with DIFFERENT base currencies...

23:00:24 pgp: BTC assets are the same currency, but same hassle? why?

23:00:58 mircea_popescu: because mpex uses strong ownership

23:01:02 mircea_popescu: (gpg contracts, gpg orders)

23:01:17 mircea_popescu: and everyone else uses weak ownership (no contracts ; fiat ownership)

23:01:17 jurov: i think mp is the wrong person to ask things from... you want to have corporations that issue something like gpg-signed share certificates

23:01:39 jurov: then it will be only a question to get exchanges to recognize them

23:01:52 mircea_popescu: and so at the interface between hard and soft you will have a gap

23:03:11 mircea_popescu: jurov well basically listing on mpex does that exactly.

23:05:10 TomServo: I think open transactions is meant to solve these issues.

23:07:32 jurov: TomServo: is meant to or it actually solves? why friedcat isn't using it, for example?

23:07:55 jurov: if he hates "classic" exchanges

23:09:02 TomServo: jurov: I guess 'is meant to' at this point - it appears incomplete

23:09:33 TomServo: But it sounds promising with evidently having solved the cross server discover issue

23:10:29 jurov: mircea_popescu: there is no possibility for a corporation to have multiple counterparties on the same level as mpex

23:10:56 jurov: it's only possible to have everything on mpex and then passthroughs

23:11:31 mircea_popescu: well, leaving aside that there isn't a 2nd mpex to begin with, having no hierarchy means you'll have to face the byzantine problem

23:11:36 mircea_popescu: which means either blockchain or more genius

23:13:27 jurov: yes i know, but i'm optimistic it will be solved long term

23:14:15 mircea_popescu: maybe. i'm still not sure why exactly it is a problem.

23:14:46 ThickAsThieves: typing from mobile, but it seems to me you guys are requesting a feature of inter exchange xfer,

23:14:59 ThickAsThieves: but not stating the problem u wanna solve

23:15:14 ThickAsThieves: my guess,

23:15:18 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i been asking that for ~2 hours

23:15:28 mircea_popescu: i guess people are just keen to do stuff

23:15:38 ThickAsThieves: is u wanna arb without the risk of taking a position on all xchanhes

23:15:51 ThickAsThieves: and rhis is just masked bitching

23:16:05 ThickAsThieves: but

23:16:11 ThickAsThieves: what u dont realize

23:16:28 ThickAsThieves: is if u could do inter xchanfe arb

23:16:33 ThickAsThieves: sobeasily

23:16:41 ThickAsThieves: it wouldn't exist

23:16:58 ThickAsThieves: right?

23:17:24 TomServo: I thought the problem was not having to trust a third party?

23:17:30 mircea_popescu: haha that's a point

23:17:38 jurov: it's also trust. mp seems to think about it as nonissue that mpex is to be the apex trusted with all shares

23:17:44 mircea_popescu: trustless finance is nonsense.

23:17:48 ThickAsThieves: if u dont want risk buy direct

23:17:57 ThickAsThieves: closest u can get

23:18:02 mircea_popescu: im not sure why this is difficult to digest, but finance is fundamentally fiduciary.

23:18:09 ThickAsThieves: but then, no arb 4 u

23:18:36 BitHub: ghey

23:18:50 ThickAsThieves: so the moral is

23:19:15 ThickAsThieves: if u wanna make fukn money on arb, take positions and risk

23:19:33 ThickAsThieves: and make datmoney

23:19:44 mircea_popescu: i don't think at any point in the > 5000 years history of arbing

23:19:50 mircea_popescu: anyone involved didn't try to minimize risk

23:19:52 jurov: yes. and then passthrough op vanishes

23:20:01 jurov: like brendio for example

23:20:30 mircea_popescu: thats a good example cause he seemed real trustworthy all through and never had a good reason to disappear

23:23:50 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, if you've never tried having a girl sit in your lap while you're sitting on one of those large yoga inflatable rubber balls you must do so forthwith

23:27:06 qxzn: < mircea_popescu> trustless finance is nonsense.

23:27:10 qxzn: ^

23:39:41 furuknap: Interesting. There's actually a Devcoin AM PT. https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39

23:40:18 furuknap: Wonder when someone will come up with an LTC AM PT.

23:40:22 mircea_popescu: didn;'t cryptostocks turn scammy or am i confused

23:40:27 Namworld: Brendio didn't really disappear. He eventually showed up after harassing him.

23:41:09 Namworld: He just kind of carried on when GLBSE closed and couldn't bother when GLBSE disclosed the lists.

23:41:25 furuknap: I haven't looked into that exchange at all, but the AM PT just recently launched so either someone is very stupid or very brave if this is a scam site.

23:42:24 mircea_popescu: furuknap it;s old, but there was some issue

23:42:28 mircea_popescu: recently i mean

23:42:28 furuknap: The site is trading with a massive 4 full AM shares, though (it's a 1/1000 PT) so I'm not expecting any huge market moves elsewhere.

23:43:16 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201674.0

23:43:20 mircea_popescu: a there it is, not scam, hack-y

23:43:59 furuknap: Ah. The AM PT thread launched May 5 this year, though: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196217.msg2039800#msg2039800

23:44:28 mircea_popescu: so 6 days before the hack

23:44:45 furuknap: Yup.

23:51:29 ThickAsThieves: hacked twice if i recall

23:52:15 furuknap: I'm... not... entirely sure this is the best promotional video Devcoins could get... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Axa9_yXF4

23:54:51 ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215490.0 <<< Chaang-Noi's next toy?

23:57:43 furuknap: Cool. Of course, if Bitcoins goes to $1M each, then you'd also be famous for being the person that bought a Bentley GT for $375M.

23:59:10 ThickAsThieves: you could say that abiut all the dollars never spent on bitcoin