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Transcript for 24-08-2014, 1100 lines:

00:30:49 nubbins`: i always thought the word "factoid" was a direct analogue of the phrase "useless trivia"

00:31:06 nubbins`: today, i find out i've been using this word incorrectly since childhood

00:43:24 ThickAsThieves: me too, that is interesting

00:43:40 ThickAsThieves: factoid is a factoid

00:43:54 mircea_popescu: !up BlueMeanie4

00:43:55 ThickAsThieves: pretty cool

00:44:10 mircea_popescu: <guevara246> the rationale being applied to chargeback and fraud < yes.

00:46:01 mircea_popescu: <TomServo> Now you had better !up him, in case he should care to comment. <<, your dry humour has been recorded :D

00:46:58 mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> it's weird how this issue hasn't been addressed << they're called power rangers for a reason you know.

00:47:14 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla who's that ?

00:47:42 mircea_popescu: nubbins` no, it's a direct anlogue of useless trivia.

00:48:10 nubbins`: the definition of factoid was in fact a factoid for me this whole time

00:48:14 mircea_popescu: trivial or false information that exists more for being repeated than for being important

00:48:26 nubbins`: i was very nonplussed upon realizing this

00:48:48 mircea_popescu: nubbins` so what do you (erroneously) think it means now ?

00:48:57 ThickAsThieves: lies

00:49:03 ThickAsThieves: damn lies

00:49:17 mircea_popescu: From: Ana Samaniego Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 4:24 PM Subject: Hello I NEED YOUR PARTNERSHIP OF $49.5 MILLION USD. E-MAIL: jmorrow147@rogers.com

00:49:28 asciilifeform: hanbot: lol. windowcat, in all likelihood, began by watching birds. or the play of her kitten, microwindowcat. but she's been known to look in the window.

00:49:33 mircea_popescu: chick wants to has my babies ?

00:49:47 ThickAsThieves: i heard you wanted to have children

00:50:09 mircea_popescu: yes, but for lunch.

00:50:28 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2X4SYJR.txt )

00:50:28 asciilifeform: !b 2

00:50:45 ThickAsThieves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumplings_(film)

00:50:45 assbot: Dumplings (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

00:50:53 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: analogous to "human" vs "humanoid"

00:50:55 ThickAsThieves: good little trilogy

00:50:58 ThickAsThieves: 3

00:51:04 ThickAsThieves: ...Extremes

00:51:15 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's nonsense. next you're going to believe a tabloid is a littler table.

00:51:23 nubbins`: HEH.

00:51:32 nubbins`: humanoid doesn't mean littler table!

00:51:37 nubbins`: i, uh. wait

00:51:43 asciilifeform: no. it's a little tabl.

00:51:43 nubbins`: humanoid doesn't mean littler human!

00:51:54 mircea_popescu: a humanoid is some sort of human-resembling thing. a factoid holds more prejudice : it's a nonfactual fact-looking thing.

00:52:08 ThickAsThieves: like a human

00:52:11 ThickAsThieves: not a human

00:52:13 asciilifeform: or, 'spheroid' vs sphere.

00:52:19 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves like a virgin.

00:52:26 asciilifeform: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Spheroid.html << for folks with memory loss

00:52:27 assbot: Spheroid -- from Wolfram MathWorld

00:52:28 nubbins`: like someone who doesn't own btc

00:52:31 mircea_popescu: this should totally be a thing. "honey, i'm a virginoid."

00:52:31 ThickAsThieves: i can feel my heart beat

00:52:45 nubbins`: elijah wood is a virginoid

00:52:51 ThickAsThieves: my first gf was a virginoid

00:52:51 mircea_popescu: "what's that ? " "like a virgin that's really obsessed with the notion people are trying to fuck her. paranoid virgin."

00:53:22 ThickAsThieves: she thought she was a virgin cuz she only had anal

00:53:28 mircea_popescu: so what's a fucktoid ?

00:53:32 ThickAsThieves: handjob

00:53:35 mircea_popescu: or maybe it should be spelled fucktoy'd.

00:54:10 ThickAsThieves: this is actually what the bitcoin community does to everything

00:54:16 ThickAsThieves: make it -oid

00:54:18 asciilifeform: 'the irish maidens have not lost their virtue; they merely misplaced it by an inch.'

00:54:25 mircea_popescu: altcoinoid ?

00:54:30 mircea_popescu: "no ty, i have my own altoids"

00:54:36 ThickAsThieves: blockchainoid

00:54:51 mircea_popescu: nubbins` see what you've doneoid ? i hope you're happyoid nao.

00:54:51 ThickAsThieves: biggestfirstbestoid

00:54:52 mircea_popescu: ID!

00:55:24 *: asciilifeform -oid << has long recognized the existence of 'womanoids', who bear the same relationship to 'woman' as spheroid to sphere.

00:55:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.0006346 = 14.215 BTC [-]

00:55:41 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'the irish maidens have not lost their virtue; they merely misplaced it by an inch.' << does this mean they imagine purity is about keeping their asshole undeflowered, or does it mean their hymen is now wrapped around their uterine head ?

00:55:44 BlueMeanie4: it's like a 'mini fact'

00:55:51 ThickAsThieves: it's not

00:55:54 nubbins`: it's not!

00:55:55 ThickAsThieves: thats the point here

00:56:03 *: nubbins` gestures emphatically at screen

00:56:05 BlueMeanie4: something neither provable nor disprovable, but simply annoying enough to be worthy of printing

00:56:06 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 don't feed the trolloids.

00:56:18 nubbins`: factlet

00:56:29 BlueMeanie4: ya

00:56:39 BlueMeanie4: factoids are to fact what pizza rolls are to pizza

00:56:48 mircea_popescu: pizzoid.

00:57:05 BlueMeanie4: they are not quite facts, but similar and have related qualities and are a diminished form of such

00:57:08 nubbins`: hechito

00:57:26 mircea_popescu: i wonder if there's a fetish where the guy wants to eat out girls that have priorly masturbated with pizza rolls

00:57:32 mircea_popescu: for the delicious cheezy flavour.

00:57:45 nubbins`: pizza rolls!

00:58:17 mircea_popescu: The Asteroid Monsteroid!

00:58:24 mircea_popescu: Coming soon! At a cinema near you!

00:59:07 nubbins`: hemorrhoid

00:59:20 *: nubbins` blinks, considers

00:59:21 mircea_popescu: yea, it's a diminished hemohorror.

00:59:44 nubbins`: hemohorror, for when hemorrhaging scares you

00:59:51 nubbins`: (most of the time)

00:59:52 mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the fraudsters ranch of feminist pain, http://fraudsters.com/2014/how-i-was-wrong-cuckolding-or-a-story-about-sigmas/#comment-106375

00:59:53 assbot: How I was wrong : Cuckolding, or a story about sigmas pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:01:11 BlueMeanie4: so what exactly is going on in crypto these days?

01:01:16 BlueMeanie4: seems everything is lame as hell

01:01:34 mircea_popescu: that.

01:02:08 asciilifeform: why no one asks 'what is going on in metallurgy?'

01:02:14 asciilifeform: and does this mean 'everything lame as hell' ?

01:02:29 nubbins`: moriarty, dat unsolicited pm

01:02:33 BlueMeanie4: i dont know im just not excited about anything i see

01:02:34 asciilifeform: must something 'go on' at all times?

01:02:42 BlueMeanie4: not really no

01:03:01 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you too ?

01:03:03 BlueMeanie4: just thought id poll this IRC

01:03:05 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust moriarty

01:03:06 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user moriarty: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=moriarty | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=moriarty | Rated since: never

01:03:11 asciilifeform: i think we all got sp4mz0r3d

01:03:15 nubbins`: yeah, ##econometroid or something

01:03:29 mircea_popescu: idiots. well, ignore exists for a reason i guess.

01:03:36 nubbins`: BlueMeanie4: the rich get richer, the rubes get ruber

01:03:38 nubbins`: same old

01:04:40 BlueMeanie4: there must be some options

01:05:27 asciilifeform: im just not excited about anything i see << constant state of excitement is a medical condition, doctors say 'priapism' and it is curable. be glad you aren't 'excited' at all times.

01:05:29 nubbins`: always

01:05:51 mircea_popescu: lol why so mean.

01:05:53 nubbins`: there are never no options

01:05:58 mircea_popescu: HE's supposed to be the meanie here.

01:06:04 nubbins`: oh shit

01:06:06 asciilifeform: lol

01:06:10 nubbins`: TOMORROW is opposite day

01:06:11 BlueMeanie4: im actually not that mean

01:06:13 nubbins`: sorry guise D:

01:06:18 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you ain't black enough yo. if you were you'd have not got no options.

01:06:32 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 why not ? are you like a loser or something ?

01:06:39 asciilifeform: some people only get options 'abort, retry, fail'

01:06:45 BlueMeanie4: the mean shall inherit the earth

01:07:00 mircea_popescu: i think that was "the average" not "the mean"

01:07:16 nubbins`: ooh, 2x snare 1x crash

01:07:49 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 anyway, nothing is happening in crypto since altcoin killed everything.

01:08:05 thestringpuller: hanbot: was that a goodfella's reference?

01:08:38 mircea_popescu: http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/seal-steals-fish-fisherman-boat-1382810646V.gif <<< ahahaha epic.

01:10:24 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4: so how do buy options/futures? << probably your best bet atm is otc. get in the wot, identify a trustworthy cp, sign a contract.

01:11:08 BlueMeanie4: we can build a real p2p financial instruments tool

01:11:31 mircea_popescu: we can't, because a) you're not in the wot so no we, and b) we already have.

01:11:48 BlueMeanie4: ok i guess it would be fair to give your platform a real vetting

01:12:20 *: mircea_popescu digs up wherever he said that something can either be decentralized or systematic, not both.

01:13:02 BlueMeanie4: i think IRC might be limited in key ways for this purpose

01:13:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://polimedia.us/fraudsters/2013/in-which-we-discuss-datskovskiys-discussion-of-mpex << here i think

01:13:06 assbot: In which we discuss Datskovskiy’s discussion of MPEx pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:13:22 BlueMeanie4: also you need to have securitization features

01:13:34 mircea_popescu: !up jborkl

01:13:36 BlueMeanie4: is assbot a person or a robot?

01:13:52 mircea_popescu: ;;google gpg contracts

01:13:53 gribble: GPG Contracts – Adler Vermillion, LLP: http://adlervermillion.com/gpg-contracts/; GPG contracts pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/2012/gpg-contracts/; GPG Contracts - Satoshi Nakamoto Institute: http://nakamotoinstitute.org/literature/gpg-contracts/

01:13:54 jborkl: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/ebay-owned-mobile-currency-company-thinking-about-accepting-bitcoin-180952457/#AzpTZcCVBOjH4vQz.16

01:13:55 assbot: History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonian

01:14:00 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 ever read that one ?

01:14:07 jborkl: Deep ++

01:14:11 jborkl: Derp

01:14:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually i was thinking of http://fraudsters.com/2012/gpg-contracts/#comment-102651

01:14:57 assbot: GPG contracts pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:14:58 mircea_popescu: !up BlueMeanie4

01:17:56 BlueMeanie4: and the first contracts were probably marriage contracts

01:18:15 mircea_popescu: not probably, they actually were.

01:18:38 thestringpuller: now i can get fat

01:19:06 BlueMeanie4: ha

01:20:47 BlueMeanie4: its a good essay

01:21:03 mircea_popescu: so there you go. the wot is your tool.

01:22:39 BlueMeanie4: im gonna crack it open on monday

01:22:47 BlueMeanie4: hopefully you guys will be around here then

01:23:01 mircea_popescu: been around for years, what's another weekend.

01:23:18 mircea_popescu: everything else went to shit, satoshi, mtgox, all the previous things that "were" bitcoin. we're still here.

01:24:02 BlueMeanie4: ya i knew a bit about you

01:24:09 BlueMeanie4: even mentioned you on some listervs

01:24:16 BlueMeanie4: WOT that is

01:27:26 nubbins`: BlueMeanie4 what kinda options/futures you looking to buy

01:27:40 BlueMeanie4: well want to know how the controls work

01:27:53 BlueMeanie4: this is part of the problem, MARKETING is the big challenge for these sorts of instruments

01:28:06 mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's actually one of the best ways to get in the wot, fully paid future delivery contracts with someone already in. should be safe enough if dealing with a heavyweight for both parties.

01:28:16 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 no it's not. they aren't for the mass market.

01:28:27 mircea_popescu: whenever the random idiot gets involved across the board, the economy goes to shit.

01:28:48 BlueMeanie4: actually our economic crisis was blamed on a sort of security

01:28:53 mircea_popescu: someone wants to cast a vote in the wonderous world of finance, he'd better demonstrate either intelligence or the ability to retain counsel.

01:29:02 BlueMeanie4: and there are MASSIVE outstanding instruments that most believe will collapse

01:29:08 mircea_popescu: you don't say.

01:29:46 BlueMeanie4: well part of the problem here is how to catalog the *offerings* for these instrumetns so I can easily invest or market them

01:30:05 BlueMeanie4: example I want to make a bond for my business

01:30:14 BlueMeanie4: but no one knows what my business does

01:30:27 BlueMeanie4: but there are investors out there who might want to invest in my CLASS of credit

01:30:40 BlueMeanie4: this is how mortgage financing works

01:30:54 BlueMeanie4: the bankers no longer know who you are

01:31:01 BlueMeanie4: but they know what class of credit you are in

01:31:53 BlueMeanie4: so this approach greatly increases liquidity

01:32:24 jborkl: Mircea, if I need credit for the next 3 days will my WOT suffice?

01:33:50 BlueMeanie4: well you WOT is one-dimensional. say you were to describe what the credit is FOR, ie. you want to finance a software project. then your market opens up, there are investors out there who invest in such things.

01:34:35 BlueMeanie4: also collateralized contracts are very useful

01:35:06 hanbot: thestringpuller: hanbot: was that a goodfella's reference? << yepper.

01:35:58 mircea_popescu: jborkl depends how much.

01:36:08 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 i don't think you understand hw it works.

01:36:13 mircea_popescu: ;;google how the wot works

01:36:14 gribble: Why WOT works | WOT (Web of Trust): http://www.mywot.com/en/support/how-wot-works; How WOT ratings work | Help Center | WOT (Web of Trust): http://www.mywot.com/en/faq/website/rating-websites; Frequently Asked Questions | World of Tanks: http://worldoftanks.com/en/content/guide/general/frequently_asked_questions/

01:36:21 mircea_popescu: shame on you google.

01:36:37 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/

01:36:39 assbot: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:36:43 mircea_popescu: ;;google what the wot is for

01:36:44 gribble: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe fraudsters - Un ...: http://fraudsters.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/; World of Tanks official forum: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/; WoT 9.x Guide for Better FPS/Graphic Optimization 3.0 - Support ...: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/349743-wot-9x-guide-for-better-fpsgraphic- (1 more message)

01:36:53 mircea_popescu: sorry google, i take it back. my bad.

01:37:11 jborkl: World of tanks heh

01:37:12 BlueMeanie4: im familiar with it

01:37:22 mircea_popescu: so then what exactly do you mean by "one dimensional"

01:37:30 mircea_popescu: it's infinitely dimensional.

01:37:30 BlueMeanie4: the point is that different classes of credit are valuable to different classes of people

01:37:35 mircea_popescu: exactly.

01:37:57 BlueMeanie4: well WOT measures value by the person, not the type of credit this person is marketing

01:38:02 mircea_popescu: ...

01:38:11 mircea_popescu: that made no sense. try again ?

01:38:14 BlueMeanie4: heres an example

01:38:22 BlueMeanie4: i make two mortgages

01:38:31 BlueMeanie4: one for palo alto and one for ferguson

01:38:42 BlueMeanie4: made by the same person

01:38:47 BlueMeanie4: are they both worth the same?

01:38:59 mircea_popescu: ...

01:39:16 mircea_popescu: "i order a dildo and a box of cookies in the same shop. are they worth the same ?"

01:39:28 mircea_popescu: that's the wrong question. is it equally likely the store will deliver my order is the right question.

01:39:31 BlueMeanie4: thats a fairly specious and somewhat annoying response

01:39:39 mircea_popescu: and yes, i would say that they are equally likely to be delivered.

01:39:40 BlueMeanie4: point is

01:39:51 BlueMeanie4: yes i would buy one mortgage risk and not the other

01:39:58 BlueMeanie4: these are facts of financial markets

01:40:02 mircea_popescu: but for no reasons to do with the actual risk.

01:40:03 BlueMeanie4: try to get car insurance in detroit

01:40:06 BlueMeanie4: and see what happens

01:40:09 mircea_popescu: strictly for reasons to do with what you're buying.

01:40:21 mircea_popescu: it's nonsense to claim they're the same things but with different risks,.

01:40:23 BlueMeanie4: right i want to knwo what im buying

01:40:25 mircea_popescu: they're actually different things.

01:40:49 BlueMeanie4: WOT only looks at the person issueing and while this isn't useless, it is possible to make much better systems

01:40:51 mircea_popescu: ok, so what you're buying is between you and your cp.

01:40:58 BlueMeanie4: true

01:41:02 mircea_popescu: no, wot only looks at how likely it is for your cp to lie to you.

01:41:08 BlueMeanie4: but its EASIER to market it if i can catalogue by risk class

01:41:22 mircea_popescu: but the reason you can't is because that's a fucktarded system made by lazy apes that doesn't work

01:41:31 mircea_popescu: which is why you're here, and which is why i'm not on ws.

01:41:33 BlueMeanie4: youve got the basic contract mechanism, now you need securitizatino tools

01:41:36 mircea_popescu: because your system sucks.

01:41:43 mircea_popescu: the wot is the securization tool.

01:41:57 BlueMeanie4: no you dont understand meaning of 'securitization'

01:42:05 BlueMeanie4: it doesnt mean making securities per se

01:42:18 BlueMeanie4: it means turning risk into a monetized resource

01:42:22 mircea_popescu: i do. the problem is that you'd like for shorthand that's accepted in an old, meanwhile abandoned system to work unioversally.

01:42:25 mircea_popescu: it doesn't work universally.

01:42:30 mircea_popescu: you'll have to learn new shorthand.

01:42:40 mircea_popescu: same principles, of course, but changes the engineer's life entirely.

01:42:44 BlueMeanie4: i can write a contract lets say a futures contract right?

01:42:48 mircea_popescu: sure.

01:42:48 BlueMeanie4: pretty simple

01:42:57 BlueMeanie4: i give you 10 beans on christmas day 2015

01:43:02 mircea_popescu: okay.

01:43:12 BlueMeanie4: but can i resell that risk?

01:43:14 mircea_popescu: sure.

01:43:18 BlueMeanie4: how

01:43:26 mircea_popescu: by... reselling it. making a new contract.

01:43:34 BlueMeanie4: no thats not exactly the same

01:43:42 mircea_popescu: hell, the ether future contract specifically said it will allow assignment even.

01:43:44 BlueMeanie4: because the VALUE of that RISK doesnt float on the market

01:43:52 mircea_popescu: no, it's not exactly the same. hence the comment above about shorthands,

01:44:00 BlueMeanie4: in modern markets

01:44:04 BlueMeanie4: i can make that futures contract

01:44:06 mircea_popescu: your modern markets failed.

01:44:13 BlueMeanie4: and the default collateral i can put on the market

01:44:13 mircea_popescu: which is why we're here.

01:44:16 BlueMeanie4: and it can change hands

01:44:19 BlueMeanie4: its very powerufl

01:44:26 BlueMeanie4: generates massive amounts of wealht

01:44:34 mircea_popescu: hey, you wanna stick to doing it that way by all means.

01:44:46 mircea_popescu: go ahead. it ain't happening here, and it won't survive the decade.

01:45:02 BlueMeanie4: while thats a valid point, i dont think they failed BECAUSE of securitization altough these new methods did destablize

01:45:08 BlueMeanie4: they are not inherently destructive

01:45:26 mircea_popescu: the argument as presented is purely semantical.

01:45:43 b00lcrap: hi

01:45:51 mircea_popescu: they didn't fail because of securitization directly, but nevertheless they will fail unavoidably for reasons rooted in why that particular kind of securitization works that particular way.

01:45:55 mircea_popescu: ello b00lcrap

01:46:01 b00lcrap: hey good day sir

01:46:24 b00lcrap: im asciilifeforms co worker

01:46:30 b00lcrap: i dont think we have officially met.

01:46:40 mircea_popescu: how goes at stan's co-work ?

01:46:48 b00lcrap: well they tell me its a sinking shit

01:46:50 mircea_popescu: !up BlueMeanie4

01:46:54 b00lcrap: but we have all just been upgrade to first class.

01:46:57 nubbins`: i like that phrase

01:47:02 b00lcrap: oh

01:47:04 nubbins`: it's much better when your shit floats

01:47:06 b00lcrap: sinking ship

01:47:07 b00lcrap: lol

01:47:13 nubbins`: no, the first one was better :D

01:47:17 mircea_popescu: b00lcrap lol what do you do, asm ?

01:47:21 b00lcrap: yeah

01:47:24 b00lcrap: asm

01:47:26 b00lcrap: windows malware

01:47:35 b00lcrap: some vuln dev

01:47:35 mircea_popescu: well, get in the wot, im sure you won't sink here.

01:47:37 BlueMeanie4: theres nothing wrong with securitization, it's just like debt based money- a school of morons believes it is evil by some undefined ethos

01:47:47 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 the ethos is quite well defined.

01:47:52 mircea_popescu: ;;google the problem of too much money

01:47:52 gribble: Why Too Much Money is Worse than Too Little | OPEN Forum: http://www.openforum.com/articles/why-too-much-money-is-worse-than-too-little-1/; Why Too Much Money Is Bad for a Startup | Inc.com: http://www.inc.com/magazine/201404/elain-pofeldt/too-much-startup-funding-causes-problems.html; 'If I Think About My Money Problems Too Much, I'll Miss My Babies ...: (1 more message)

01:47:59 mircea_popescu: OMFG GOOGLE!

01:48:17 BlueMeanie4: every working currency we have is debt backed

01:48:20 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 http://fraudsters.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/ << there you go.

01:48:21 assbot: The problem of too much money pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:48:34 mircea_popescu: no. bitcoin is not debt backed. every dysfunctional currency is debt backed.

01:48:37 b00lcrap: well that is reassuring. cuz i have many hungry mouths to feed

01:48:47 mircea_popescu: b00lcrap srsly ? how many is many ?

01:48:48 BlueMeanie4: i guess you get to be right until bitcoin fails?

01:48:55 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 exactly.

01:48:57 b00lcrap: 3

01:48:59 b00lcrap: + me

01:49:03 b00lcrap: maybe thats not that many

01:49:15 mircea_popescu: b00lcrap 3 bits...

01:49:24 BlueMeanie4: debt is the basic thing that gives money substance

01:49:40 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 this is like saying vishnu is the basic thing giving the world movement.

01:49:47 mircea_popescu: sure, if you're pre-colonialism indian.

01:50:24 BlueMeanie4: no it isn't - quite the opposite using gold or other commodities for money were a feature of primitive societies- you seem to have it backward

01:50:34 mircea_popescu: hey, what can i tell you.

01:50:46 mircea_popescu: don't confuse historical accident with meaning.

01:50:48 BlueMeanie4: it goes from

01:50:50 BlueMeanie4: barter

01:50:52 BlueMeanie4: to commodity notes

01:50:55 BlueMeanie4: to debt notes

01:51:21 mircea_popescu: that's how it goes in the book your learned on. this is called didacticism : the sad habit of people to recreate history in terms of their preferred systematic approach.

01:51:46 mircea_popescu: otherwise, debt notes are older than coins, have been in use in china since forever.

01:51:59 BlueMeanie4: this sophistry doesnt work on me. its pretty simple really. if i hold a note that says YOU OWE ME TWENTY EGGS

01:52:03 BlueMeanie4: this is worth something right?

01:52:09 mircea_popescu: depends who i am and what eggs are.

01:52:11 BlueMeanie4: its worth at least 20 eggs in the future

01:52:17 mircea_popescu: plenty of people hold... pirate debt

01:52:19 BlueMeanie4: or rather at most 20 eggs

01:52:27 mircea_popescu: which they bought because they think like you, in spite of me telling them not to.

01:52:33 ThickAsThieves: goxcoins

01:52:52 BlueMeanie4: right so the margin between the actual eggs and my risk of actually getting them is what is the value of the note

01:52:54 mircea_popescu: now, you're more welcome to get burned a few times if you won't listen and feel entitled to call things sophistry.

01:52:56 BlueMeanie4: and thats the value of currency

01:53:01 mircea_popescu: no.

01:53:11 BlueMeanie4: USDs are valuable because people, generally, think that the US govt will repay

01:53:14 nubbins`: fun story, was over at my folks' house this evening and my dad pulled out some old chartered bank notes

01:53:18 mircea_popescu: you are making a mistake jpm warned against. allow me to quote the old gentleman.

01:53:45 mircea_popescu: Untermyer: "Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?"

01:53:46 mircea_popescu: Morgan: "No sir. The first thing is character."

01:53:46 mircea_popescu: Untermyer: "Before money or property?"

01:53:46 mircea_popescu: Morgan: "Before money or property or anything else. Money cannot buy it...because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom."

01:53:49 nubbins`: came across a Bank of Montreal $20 bill

01:53:49 BlueMeanie4: ThickAsTheives- actually those kind of collection notes have a market

01:53:54 mircea_popescu: so no, it's not a thing equal to another thing, and they discount each other.

01:54:07 mircea_popescu: who i am and what eggs are comes before any numerical consideration of value.

01:54:31 BlueMeanie4: a 20 egg note is not worth 20 eggs, yes, it's up to the debtor to MAKE them worth 20 eggs. see how this works?

01:54:42 mircea_popescu: i see how you think it works.

01:54:48 mircea_popescu: but it doth not work that way, mostly.

01:55:04 BlueMeanie4: well i dont really bear the burden of proof, these are facts of financial markets as they exist

01:55:15 *: mircea_popescu shrugs.

01:55:25 mircea_popescu: how much are us gold backed debentures, worth cca 1931 ?

01:55:35 mircea_popescu: "this paper will pay 1000 oz of pure gold"

01:55:44 BlueMeanie4: when did we issue those?

01:55:44 nubbins`: OH NO IT WON'T

01:55:57 mircea_popescu: yes well.

01:55:58 BlueMeanie4: we had silver certs for a while

01:56:07 BlueMeanie4: i have a few actually

01:56:27 mircea_popescu: so look : you can sit in a car, and derive from the experiene of sitting there some idea as to how the car works.

01:56:39 mircea_popescu: this is fine, but it's a little silly to push that argument of familiarity too far.

01:57:07 mircea_popescu: these "financial markets" aren't a single thing, and they only work as you describe them when they don't actually work.

01:57:36 BlueMeanie4: i find it unfortunate that so many are bogged down with these voodoo economic ideas when they should be building better machinery to deliver real functions

01:58:15 mircea_popescu: well, to round the circle : i find it unfortunate that so many otherwise intelligent fellows are so fixated on their various habituations that they refuse to adapt and become useful for the future.

01:59:26 BlueMeanie4: ok but i fail to see any operable ideas here

01:59:35 BlueMeanie4: just suggestions that our current system is flawed in some way

01:59:42 mircea_popescu: but one point is important : the world you know has failed. this will require a pound of flesh out of everyone involved. whether it comes in the form of the intellectual humiliation where you say "we were wrong and the actual voodoo people at the table" and move on, or the actual physical humiliation that goes with being on the defeated side...

01:59:54 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 well you gotta read to see the operable ideas.

02:00:24 BlueMeanie4: the basic laws of math and economics have not failed nor have they been altered

02:00:44 mircea_popescu: they have not. just, you never used any math and you never had much to say about economics.

02:00:49 mircea_popescu: and by you i mostly don't mean you personally.

02:02:00 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Power issues. Will be off for possibly a couple more hours. Will pro-rata a discount at current estimated

02:02:07 X-Rob: ;;genrate 1700000

02:02:08 gribble: The expected generation output, at 1700000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 23844670038.8, is 0.0358545988072 BTC per day and 0.00149394161697 BTC per hour.

02:02:19 X-Rob: say 0.002/btc/hour

02:02:33 mircea_popescu: X-Rob what happened anyway ? power station blew up ?

02:04:04 *: hanbot enjoyed this "debate"; i call it "let's read the convo via the logs and guess what mp's answers will be, then hit refresh and score ourselves"

02:05:00 mircea_popescu: lol hanbot so what's your score ?

02:05:55 hanbot: epsilon :D

02:06:07 ThickAsThieves: i was gonna say "true"

02:07:42 BlueMeanie4: TAT- so before you say goxcoins

02:07:52 BlueMeanie4: people market those kind of collection notes all the time

02:08:10 BlueMeanie4: say you had a million dollars in outstanding collections

02:08:15 BlueMeanie4: and I was a collectoins auditor

02:08:21 BlueMeanie4: i buy them for 200k

02:08:28 mircea_popescu: :)

02:08:28 ThickAsThieves: in that case it is the flavor of the product

02:08:29 BlueMeanie4: and manage to collect 400k

02:08:30 BlueMeanie4: WIN

02:08:43 mircea_popescu: funny part being i said this exactly.

02:08:59 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: no, that 1700 is actually at my house

02:09:01 BlueMeanie4: you system as far as i udnerstand it does not allwo for the transfer of obligations

02:09:07 X-Rob: and I have a nice smokey looking circuit breaker

02:09:22 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 that'd be because you got some ideas you're trying to fit to observed reality

02:09:26 mircea_popescu: try the other approach.

02:09:28 X-Rob: So I'm digging a trench to bypass it

02:09:45 mircea_popescu: X-Rob and enjoiny every inch of the process i bet :D

02:09:50 BlueMeanie4: no, im explaining real tangible facts of how finance markets work

02:10:00 mircea_popescu: same thing, really.

02:10:12 mircea_popescu: how financial markets used to work pre bitcoin is purely of academic interest

02:10:14 ThickAsThieves: one thing i know about finance markets, it's no one really gets to say how they work

02:10:22 BlueMeanie4: A Brave New World

02:10:22 mircea_popescu: kinda like we care about how the iroquis "state capitol" used to work.

02:11:52 BlueMeanie4: ?

02:12:25 BlueMeanie4: are we about to go into tour de force of rousseuian noble savage theory

02:12:50 mircea_popescu: go right ahead.

02:13:18 mircea_popescu: nubbins` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT2JkKLjNSw

02:13:18 assbot: The Frogs - I'm Sad The Goat Just Died Today - YouTube

02:13:20 BlueMeanie4: what do the Iroquois have to do with this

02:13:22 mircea_popescu: gonna sign them ?

02:13:47 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 pretend you're some exponent of the iroquis. everything you said works just as well.

02:14:00 mircea_popescu: "real tangible facts of how political systems work" indeed.

02:14:01 BlueMeanie4: ok?

02:14:26 mircea_popescu: nobody here gives a shit, and unless you change your mind you'll be force-marrying some english speaking brute.

02:14:39 mircea_popescu: this isn't like... o hey, bitcoin is trying to persuade the old order.

02:14:40 ThickAsThieves: bluemean4 representin Team Marketoids v. mircea_popescu with Team Perfect Economoids. Fight!

02:14:55 mircea_popescu: this is like, bitcoin will fuck it up the ass with a steel girder and everyone has a short and vanishing opportunity to change sides.

02:15:05 mircea_popescu: quickly and well. ie, convincingly.

02:15:54 BlueMeanie4: some of these bitcoin people are reminiscint of the french revolution. for a few weeks they thought they could completely redesign the whole universe. I believe they wanted to change the number of days in a week.

02:16:12 BlueMeanie4: this few weeks was written about with horror by most who lived through it

02:16:23 mircea_popescu: for sure. and that's nothing compared.

02:16:47 mircea_popescu: quite an apt comparison, actually.

02:16:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1866 @ 0.0006346 = 1.1842 BTC [-]

02:17:01 mircea_popescu: !up BlueMeanie4

02:19:22 mircea_popescu: the funny part being, of course, that they actually DID redesign the whole universe, and everything you imagine was always fixed and the case was purely and shamelessly invented then. then history rewritten to support this inane theory.

02:19:49 mircea_popescu: we happen to be here to reverse all of it and more, but it's irrelevant which way it goes really. obviously the cock going in hurts about as much as it hurts going out, so to speak.

02:20:02 BlueMeanie4: im assuming youre being facetious

02:20:10 mircea_popescu: in that assumption you'd be wrong.

02:21:19 BlueMeanie4: well for as long as you lack the features i describe, these contracts will have a very limited market

02:21:31 nubbins`: mp sick tunes

02:21:51 mircea_popescu: maximizing the market is not a valid goal of economics any more than maximizing body weight is not a valid goal of medicine.

02:21:57 mircea_popescu: you're maybe thinking industrial veterinarian.

02:21:59 mircea_popescu: different story.

02:22:22 mircea_popescu: the point is for the market to be meaningful not large.

02:22:28 BlueMeanie4: economics literally means 'efficiency'

02:22:49 mircea_popescu: in the sense laundromat literally means laundry robot.

02:23:09 nubbins`: home ec

02:23:28 BlueMeanie4: from Greek oikonomia "household management, thrift,"

02:23:50 mircea_popescu: the thrift is actually the historical point here. economy started its life as an attempt to waste less.

02:24:04 BlueMeanie4: well if i want to say take out a put or o call

02:24:07 BlueMeanie4: i want the best price

02:24:12 BlueMeanie4: and how will i get the best price

02:24:33 mircea_popescu: your focus on the price to the detriment of the more important considerations is, again, what sunk the system you grew up with.

02:24:38 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9lzL14S9GU

02:24:39 assbot: Grandma's Sitting in the Corner With a Penis in Her Hand Going "No, No, No, No, No" - The Frogs - YouTube

02:25:01 mircea_popescu: that's how you ended up with "books" being the shittiest thing people will still take as a book, in a neat little package

02:25:09 mircea_popescu: and with otherwise-flavoured fanta sold as beer

02:25:10 BlueMeanie4: this seems to be a tactic you use to avoid addressing either your lack of information on a subject or you willingness to accept various facts

02:25:10 mircea_popescu: and so on,

02:25:33 mircea_popescu: it's not a pretty place to live in. even if you do have the ever present, ever oversold hope you will somehow "create immense value" and run off to live in argentina.

02:25:48 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 what's "this" ?

02:25:50 BlueMeanie4: you cant just wave away ideas by saying 'thats old world'

02:26:02 mircea_popescu: course i can. i can do anything i want.

02:26:08 BlueMeanie4: well sure

02:26:09 nubbins`: "i want the best price" is why all the painted lines are worn off the road here two months after they gets sprayed on.

02:26:12 BlueMeanie4: but you look like a cult leader

02:26:16 BlueMeanie4: or at least aspiring to be one

02:26:22 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 if i cared what i looked like i'd actually be a cult leader.

02:26:28 mircea_popescu: as it is, i'm content to merely look like one.

02:26:49 BlueMeanie4: ok.

02:26:54 nubbins`: "i want the best price" is why there are five wal-marts in my city of 100k people

02:27:00 mircea_popescu: auctoritas. it's a thing.

02:27:13 BlueMeanie4: nubbins you dont want the best price?

02:27:15 nubbins`: "i want the best price" is the reason why tim horton's is the number one coffee chain in canada

02:27:20 mircea_popescu: it ruled an empire, and it was the way to rule an empire, before the very successful french revolution reorganised your mental space for you.

02:27:24 nubbins`: BlueMeanie4: of course not.

02:27:27 BlueMeanie4: ha

02:27:30 nubbins`: i want the best /value/.

02:27:40 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 he sells expensive artwork and shit. not a very good angle there.

02:28:11 BlueMeanie4: thats what the anti-walmartians argument boils down to. they lack the terms to describe what is bothering them, so instead they are stuck paying for overpriced stuff from 'local' people

02:28:18 nubbins`: "i want the best price" as you head to the dollar store to buy the fifth set of pliers

02:28:35 nubbins`: BlueMeanie4 the point flew about six feet above your head

02:28:42 mircea_popescu: o brother will you have fun here.

02:28:53 mircea_popescu: i just hope your nerves hold.

02:28:57 BlueMeanie4: ok so you dont want marketable financial contracts

02:28:59 BlueMeanie4: go tit

02:29:02 mircea_popescu: not at all.

02:29:03 ThickAsThieves: i want the "right" price

02:29:08 mircea_popescu: can you like, not make so many strawmen ?!

02:29:15 nubbins`: <+BlueMeanie4> thats what the anti-walmartians argument boils down to. they lack the terms to describe what is bothering them, so instead they are stuck paying for overpriced stuff from 'local' people <<< unadulterated gibberish, contains no information

02:29:25 mircea_popescu: it's fine for them to be marketable, provided they're financial contracts.

02:29:31 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves not bad

02:29:41 mircea_popescu: not the cheapo, dysfunctional ersatz the "financial markets" currently use.

02:30:05 mircea_popescu: every now and again a smarmy da walks into a smart judge's chambers with something about "a standard deal" and the judge tells him there's no such thing as "standard deals"

02:30:13 BlueMeanie4: i think there was a degrade in quality for some of these

02:30:19 mircea_popescu: that's an important point for the da to digest, in his personal evolution from smarmy to useful.

02:30:28 BlueMeanie4: i live in a area that was heavily financed by these MBA mortgages

02:30:29 mircea_popescu: no, there wasn't "a degrade of quality".

02:30:37 mircea_popescu: just, some shit splurged out of the package.

02:30:43 mircea_popescu: the package OF SHIT, mind you.

02:30:54 BlueMeanie4: its not securitization

02:30:58 BlueMeanie4: heres basically what happened

02:31:16 BlueMeanie4: they developed these things not very long ago, you might say 198-something maybe they began?

02:31:20 mircea_popescu: bonus points if you mention "gaussian copulas" being calculated in excel spreadsheets by monkeys.

02:31:25 BlueMeanie4: prior to that futures and options were only for commodiites

02:31:41 BlueMeanie4: so most didnt know what they were

02:31:46 BlueMeanie4: but what they did see where amazing gains

02:31:46 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

02:31:57 BlueMeanie4: and these gains were rationally derived mostly

02:31:58 BlueMeanie4: but then

02:32:03 BlueMeanie4: people got out of hand with it

02:32:05 BlueMeanie4: its like bitcoin

02:32:06 mircea_popescu: ;;echo gives assbot a cookie.

02:32:06 gribble: gives assbot a cookie.

02:32:15 ThickAsThieves: rationally derived gains

02:32:15 BlueMeanie4: it worked, then the altcoin fuckfaces came in and pissed in the pool

02:32:27 mircea_popescu: that's not really what happened, but anyway.

02:32:32 BlueMeanie4: sure it is

02:32:36 BlueMeanie4: take the MBAs

02:32:44 nubbins`: BlueMeanie4: i take raw materials, add value to them, sell them. great, now i've got $x. i can put $x in the hands of walmart and buy 1kg of coffee, or i can put $x in the hands of a business owned by someone who lives here and buy 0.75kg of coffee. sure, with the first option i've got 0.25kg extra coffee, but my city has $(x-y) fewer dollars, where y is an almost-negligible sum.

02:32:46 BlueMeanie4: prior to the invention of such, mortgages were very hard to get

02:32:51 nubbins`: how's this hard to understand? :/

02:32:55 mircea_popescu: what happened is that clinton decided niggers will become whites if they get free houses. they drew up legislation to implement this nonsense.

02:32:59 mircea_popescu: the banks noticed hey, free money!

02:33:11 ThickAsThieves: shouldnt morgages be hard to get?

02:33:15 mircea_popescu: two decades later, the whole thing's ruined, as it will never get out of an ever increasing black hole of moral hazard

02:33:25 BlueMeanie4: TAT: technically no

02:33:28 ThickAsThieves: depends on your reputation

02:33:39 BlueMeanie4: Mircea, thats not accurate

02:33:52 BlueMeanie4: youre taking the gonzo highly critical anti-view

02:33:58 mircea_popescu: well we all got our stories as to "what really happened". i was merely illustrating the vastness of that area.

02:34:39 BlueMeanie4: if i were a mortgage investors

02:34:49 BlueMeanie4: i might choose to look at any criteria i want

02:34:53 mircea_popescu: but regardless of what really happened : there's no way forward. it died, and that's that. bury it and move on, you ain't fixing the corpse.

02:34:59 BlueMeanie4: maybe i personally know that lets say romania is a great investment

02:35:03 nubbins`: sure, and hotels in paris give themselves star-ratings based on the size of the lobby

02:35:05 BlueMeanie4: thus I buy undervalued credit risk

02:35:10 BlueMeanie4: for romanian mortgages

02:35:12 mircea_popescu: how would you "personally know". is this stock picking on steroids ?

02:35:40 nubbins`: this is the day of the unsolicited pm

02:35:41 BlueMeanie4: maybe you know someething about it

02:35:46 BlueMeanie4: thats how investing works

02:36:04 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 like what ? like say, omg! like say you stop thinking in terms of "romania" wqhich doesn't exist anyway, and you oinly use because you gotta use something,

02:36:22 mircea_popescu: and instead traverse the fucking wot according to some criteria that make sense to you and invest accordingly, IN PEOPLE ?

02:36:24 mircea_popescu: whoa!

02:36:30 BlueMeanie4: ok lets say you think chicago is a horrible investment

02:36:34 BlueMeanie4: and the property is overvalued

02:36:41 mircea_popescu: jus' wont let go huh.

02:36:48 BlueMeanie4: so you can short the underlying credit devices for the mortgages in chicago

02:36:50 mircea_popescu: wtf is "chicago" ?

02:37:00 nubbins`: i think it's some sort of bond

02:37:04 BlueMeanie4: and then the price to take out a mortgage for people in chicago goes up

02:37:12 nubbins`: wait, not bond, band

02:37:17 ThickAsThieves: <+nubbins`> this is the day of the unsolicited pm /// usagi is back. coincidence?

02:37:26 mircea_popescu: man. suppose you're the sort of klutz that thinks "chicago is cool". i then knowing you think this sell you a house in "chicago" fgor a price twhich reflects your expectation, but in a location that satisfies my cost structure.

02:37:35 mircea_popescu: and then we quibble about whether "it was really in chicago"

02:37:37 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves actually now that you mention it, he was pm'ing me asking for voice earlier when i was afk

02:37:42 mircea_popescu: well no, it wasn't, because "chicago" as such dun exist.

02:37:56 nubbins`: no true chicagoan

02:38:30 nubbins`: !up TheInterocitor

02:39:22 BlueMeanie4: no idea what youre talking about but the idea here is to give people more control and choice over where there money goes

02:39:25 TheInterocitor: ty

02:39:35 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i think he pm'd everyone after being devoiced after being all territorial for some god-forsaken reason.

02:39:50 mircea_popescu: so who're you TheInterocitor ?

02:39:52 nubbins`: terri... why?

02:39:55 BlueMeanie4: if they want to juice up credit markets in chicago, they can

02:40:03 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 if they can they must.

02:40:07 BlueMeanie4: currently the way the markets work are very elitist,

02:40:07 ThickAsThieves: usagi is just mad that his tongue is poisoned with nonsense

02:40:10 BlueMeanie4: there are no choices really

02:40:12 TheInterocitor: mircea_popescu: formerly RooK we met a few weeks back

02:40:17 mircea_popescu: aha.

02:40:20 TheInterocitor: I read logs here religiously

02:40:22 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 yes, there are. really.

02:40:41 BlueMeanie4: can you buy your friends mortgage?

02:40:47 mircea_popescu: sure.

02:40:50 BlueMeanie4: really?

02:40:52 BlueMeanie4: show me how

02:40:54 mircea_popescu: what's to keep me ?

02:41:05 mircea_popescu: i sign a gpg contract with him. case closed.

02:41:12 BlueMeanie4: oh you can make a private deal

02:41:18 BlueMeanie4: but capital requirements are large

02:41:19 mircea_popescu: all deals are private deals.

02:41:24 BlueMeanie4: you need to have entire principal in hand

02:41:25 nubbins`: what other type of de... ah, too slow

02:41:28 TheInterocitor: As they should be

02:41:29 mircea_popescu: lol

02:41:52 mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 why should poor people have something to say about property and the dispositon thereof ?

02:42:10 BlueMeanie4: actually what im advocating benefits poor people

02:42:16 nubbins`: surely you're not suggesting that one should have enough money to purchase the thing one is purchasing

02:42:21 mircea_popescu: let them say things about their business, making hamburgers or filling tyres or w/e it is.

02:43:00 TheInterocitor: Usually poor people that have no idea how to manage money ?

02:43:02 BlueMeanie4: you dont seem to recognize the power in these sorts of liquid markets

02:43:15 mircea_popescu: you're right. i recognize there's no power there, just noise.

02:43:16 BlueMeanie4: the first and primary benefit is much more capital available

02:43:22 mircea_popescu: bad capital.

02:43:32 BlueMeanie4: how is capital 'bad'?

02:43:47 ThickAsThieves: a man can live on junk food

02:43:55 ThickAsThieves: just not the same life

02:43:55 mircea_popescu: lemme tell you how. i build a number of businesses in btc that relied on not dealing with idiots. they're still here, and worth whatever hundred million.

02:44:06 mircea_popescu: everyone else tried to build businesses out of allowing idiots in. they all failed

02:44:13 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves had first hand experience, among many others.

02:44:22 mircea_popescu: so... that way, bad capital. the money of idiots is not useful.

02:44:37 ThickAsThieves: good point, it was very much a junk food experience too

02:44:39 nubbins`: it's useful once you sever the connection between the idiot and the money

02:44:44 TheInterocitor: I trust ThickAsThieves, and Havelock ftw

02:44:46 nubbins`: if the idiot still has hooks in it, though..

02:44:49 mircea_popescu: nubbins` yeah but that's called scamming.

02:44:57 *: nubbins` nods sagely

02:45:02 nubbins`: TheInterocitor you trust havelock?

02:45:05 nubbins`: why?

02:45:24 ThickAsThieves: age

02:45:27 nubbins`: ah.

02:45:28 TheInterocitor: Well havelock hasnt goxxed on me yet

02:45:30 ThickAsThieves: it's an SEO factor

02:45:35 mircea_popescu: i was thinking. "not scammed me yet"

02:45:36 nubbins`: TheInterocitor: sure they have.

02:45:43 TheInterocitor: ?

02:46:07 nubbins`: let's see: their website was an insecure piece of shit with massive security holes that literally allowed third parties to drain accounts -- UNTIL LAST SUMMER

02:46:17 mircea_popescu: but his didn't get drained.

02:46:24 nubbins`: they let funds delist whenever they please, converting "shares" into "we'll send you a slip of paper"

02:46:25 TheInterocitor: true

02:46:31 mircea_popescu: but it never happened to something he owned.

02:46:39 TheInterocitor: I was unaware of this

02:46:43 ThickAsThieves: the relist things the opertaors owners delist

02:46:46 ThickAsThieves: they*

02:46:51 TheInterocitor: not like I have a substantial amount there

02:47:03 nubbins`: they sign up the shittest funds in the universe and chew up all the listing fees to unspecified "expenses", ensuring the investorubes don't get any of it

02:47:06 nubbins`: etc etc

02:47:20 ThickAsThieves: basically you can fault havelock's quality, and there is where you can remove trust

02:47:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1450 @ 0.00063525 = 0.9211 BTC [+]

02:47:28 mircea_popescu: so im playing this tablet game. it has a slots implementation, giving some in game benefits. i turned 2k chips into 85150, and it will never end.

02:47:39 mircea_popescu: fucktards don't understand rngs. took me all of 30 seconds to figure it out, too.

02:47:44 *: mircea_popescu is pretty proud of himself atm.

02:48:04 ThickAsThieves: does it pay for realz?

02:48:16 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well game coinz.

02:48:20 ThickAsThieves: word

02:48:28 TheInterocitor: so I need to sell all my RENT shares I guess lol

02:48:28 mircea_popescu: ;;google dragon vs god

02:48:29 gribble: Fairy Tail AMV - Dragon VS God Slayer - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sFhSFAXemY; [Fairy Tail AMV] Natsu vs Zancrow - Dragon vs God- Phenomenon ...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDbOsunEVPU; Fire Dragon vs. Flame God Ost - Extended - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vboTBWdgTR8

02:48:34 nubbins`: coming soon: S.THISTABLETGAME

02:48:35 mircea_popescu: there, if anyone wants to try and find the hole.

02:48:51 ThickAsThieves: and that was how the MPEx Tablet Game Guild Began

02:48:54 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i do shoot emails to the more promising publishers.

02:49:07 ThickAsThieves: damn you nub!

02:49:11 ThickAsThieves: you beta me

02:49:12 mircea_popescu: kinda the point of the entire exercise.

02:49:18 nubbins`: actually i alpha you

02:49:25 ThickAsThieves: same thing

02:49:25 nubbins`: wait, no.

02:49:27 nubbins`: i beta you.

02:49:35 nubbins`: yeah, i guess.

02:49:44 mircea_popescu: just go find a gramma you two.

02:50:37 ThickAsThieves: are there channels where people speak in code?

02:50:39 TheInterocitor: btw mircea_popescu I used one of your blog posts as a STFU in an argument the other day

02:50:40 ThickAsThieves: like Morse

02:50:48 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves yes. this one.

02:50:52 mircea_popescu: TheInterocitor did it work ?

02:51:02 TheInterocitor: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies

02:51:04 assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as “cryptocurrencies” pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

02:51:31 TheInterocitor: I think so

02:51:55 mircea_popescu: from what i hear from people trying such things, it rarely works in the sense of comprehension, but almost always works in the sense of making the op stfu.

02:52:36 TheInterocitor: It did, and I thank you tremendously

02:52:45 mircea_popescu: no bother.

02:53:32 TheInterocitor: There can be only one

02:54:02 mircea_popescu: in bitcoin ? you're kidding. there's been what, 6 or 7 jesuses ? at least 5 or so satoshis...

02:54:29 mircea_popescu: once you fix the coins to 21mn tops, everything else can exist in immoderate, endless supply

02:55:27 TheInterocitor: A fool and his money I suppose. Any money I make in alts just goes to btc. I have little interest in survival of them.

02:56:00 ThickAsThieves: what's the point in being ANTI-altcoins anyway

02:56:10 ThickAsThieves: i can see if you dont value them

02:56:17 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ever seen a cat when something moves irregularly ?

02:56:34 ThickAsThieves: you saying humans have instinct?!

02:56:54 mircea_popescu: course they do. how do you think all the drunk conceptions happen.

02:57:03 TheInterocitor: xD

02:57:20 ThickAsThieves: my wife says everything is learned

02:57:29 ThickAsThieves: i say it's all the same shit

02:57:54 ThickAsThieves: whether i learned or my ancestor did, who cares

02:57:55 mircea_popescu: speaking oif such instinct. i dunno if you've ever had dogs, but they're beyond funny when virgin. because while the dog's instinct absolutely drives him to try and mount the bitch, the dog's brain itself doesn't comprehend wtf is happening

02:58:00 mircea_popescu: and so they usually look all confused.

02:58:16 nubbins`: "why am i fucking a pillow?"

02:58:21 TheInterocitor: Great analogy

02:59:18 ThickAsThieves: what would you define the instinct is of hating altcoins? fear of randomness?

02:59:36 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves exactly like the cat's reaction to "unapprovable movement"

02:59:42 TheInterocitor: No. They have nothing to offer that btc doesn't already do

02:59:54 ThickAsThieves: so you hate monopoly money too?

03:00:01 *: asciilifeform slept through b00lcrap's intro

03:00:03 TheInterocitor: moot

03:00:10 asciilifeform: yes he's in w0t

03:00:16 asciilifeform: give him w0rk

03:00:23 mircea_popescu: the cat is driven by an attempt to reduce the cognitive load. things that move impredictably draw its attention and require it to spend brainpower. better if they stop moving.

03:00:36 mircea_popescu: same exact thing here. monopoly money is not the same because it's not "in their space"

03:00:46 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust b00lcrap

03:00:47 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask b00lcrap!~heat@74-47-204-77.dsl1.chtw.wv.frontiernet.net. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user b00lcrap: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=b00lcrap | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=b00lcrap | Rated since: Thu Aug 21 15:29:25 2014

03:01:15 mircea_popescu: ;;rate b00lcrap 1 CD 21

03:01:16 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user b00lcrap has been recorded.

03:01:22 ThickAsThieves: ok but the cat is a predator, isnt its instinct to chase?

03:01:34 mircea_popescu: it's not a chasing predator. it lies in wait normally.

03:01:57 ThickAsThieves: my cats love chasing shit

03:02:17 TheInterocitor: Perception

03:02:17 mircea_popescu: maybe your cats are really doghorses.

03:02:26 ThickAsThieves: we keep the laser pointer in a drawer,

03:02:31 ThickAsThieves: they know the sound of it opening

03:02:35 ThickAsThieves: and come running

03:02:37 mircea_popescu: lmao

03:03:23 ThickAsThieves: i do this whistle pattern whenever i give them treats, if i do it long enough they get all riled up and start smacking others that get too close

03:03:51 ThickAsThieves: cats are so weird

03:03:53 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i wonder if old married couples get that same way, guy hears the condom drawer screech and gets an errection.

03:04:05 asciilifeform: pagin herr pavlov.

03:04:21 ThickAsThieves: old married couple dont use comdoms

03:04:23 ThickAsThieves: :P

03:04:30 mircea_popescu: shit.

03:04:40 mircea_popescu: well maybe they're old married couples of sluts.

03:04:45 mircea_popescu: nah that doesn't work either

03:04:48 ThickAsThieves: lol

03:04:49 mircea_popescu: GOD DAMNIT

03:05:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: old married sluts << 'подводная лодка в степях украины погибла в неравном воздушном бою.'

03:05:37 mircea_popescu: lol

03:05:55 mircea_popescu: sounds tweetable.

03:06:01 asciilifeform: eminently.

03:06:08 mircea_popescu: подводная лодка в степях #украины погибла в неравном воздушном бою.

03:07:13 asciilifeform: or, for the inglischers, 'if ya don't believe this lie is true, ask the blind man, he saw it too'

03:08:00 mircea_popescu: no, for the inglischers is, "this is how normal debates work and everyone on reddit agrees."

03:08:14 nubbins`: cats are more stalking predators

03:08:20 nubbins`: chasing is for fun

03:08:37 mircea_popescu: nubbins` in some places the crag cat is a real danger to human life

03:08:43 mircea_popescu: can drop on your head break your neck

03:09:12 nubbins`: !up TheInterocitor

03:09:56 TheInterocitor: reddit blows

03:10:00 nubbins`: formal logic course in uni with an ancient chinese prof: "all cats have four legs. /some/ cats dig my music."

03:10:10 nubbins`: poor guy couldn't even finish his statement over the laughter ;(

03:10:22 asciilifeform: ... socrates is mortal.

03:11:26 nubbins`: dem syllogisms

03:11:38 mircea_popescu: silly logismoids, amirite

03:11:49 mircea_popescu: acrually that's a kickass album name.

03:12:01 mircea_popescu: tom cleese and tom jones could do it.

03:12:06 asciilifeform: 'silo'o'jizm'

03:12:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's more like country.

03:12:21 asciilifeform: lol

03:12:25 nubbins`: a man who eats meat wants to get his teeth into something; a man who does not eat meat wants to get his teeth into something else

03:13:09 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

03:13:10 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 503.35, Best ask: 503.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.62000, Last trade: 504.09, 24 hour volume: 8548.90926155, 24 hour low: 487.0, 24 hour high: 510.86, 24 hour vwap: 500.029882506

03:13:22 asciilifeform: what's a crag cat? google spews forth prehistoric monsters

03:13:24 mircea_popescu: this will be forever known as the war of the 500s,

03:13:31 ThickAsThieves: it will be lost

03:13:36 mircea_popescu: or by the other side as "that desperate, harrowing last ditch effort"

03:13:46 ThickAsThieves: 400 is coming

03:13:54 asciilifeform: volkssturm.

03:13:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cougars and cougarish types of housecats

03:14:03 asciilifeform: aha

03:14:04 ThickAsThieves: then 600

03:14:06 ThickAsThieves: :)

03:14:16 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves is there a bitbet ?

03:14:24 ThickAsThieves: i dunno, i got enough riding

03:14:33 asciilifeform: if i recall, zoologists write that cougar behaves precisely how an enlarged housecat would

03:14:41 mircea_popescu: well it's pretty well related.

03:14:47 asciilifeform: so anyone who dreams of being eaten by housecat, come to usa.

03:14:49 mircea_popescu: lions and such are panthera, different type

03:15:12 nubbins`: or canada!

03:15:20 nubbins`: altho we call em something else

03:15:21 asciilifeform: and, afaik, all known experiments at cross-breeding felis have succeeded

03:15:29 asciilifeform: so house-cougar may exist.

03:15:44 nubbins`: http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/this-guy-has-eaten-nothing-but-raw-meat-for-five-years

03:15:45 assbot: This Guy's Eaten Nothing but Raw Meat for Five Years | VICE Canada

03:15:57 ThickAsThieves: there's def something going on in the chinese markets

03:16:25 ThickAsThieves: a repating pattern

03:17:18 ThickAsThieves: they recently intoduced futures and margin and stuff i think

03:17:33 ThickAsThieves: maybe taking noobs for a ride

03:17:35 ThickAsThieves: i dunno

03:22:02 ThickAsThieves: some US and Euro traders are moving to chinese exchanges too, but to me something stinks

03:29:48 mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/this-guy-has-eaten-nothing-but-raw-meat-for-five-years << he;s probably from around here.

03:29:49 assbot: This Guy's Eaten Nothing but Raw Meat for Five Years | VICE Canada

03:29:54 mircea_popescu: i tell you... the veal they got these people...

03:29:58 nubbins`: heh

03:30:28 nubbins`: did you get to the part where he eats rotting chunks of lamb yet?

03:30:54 mircea_popescu: http://nakamotoinstitute.org/static/img/mempool/the-problem-with-altcoins/cargo-cult.jpg << pretty great pic

03:31:50 nubbins`: turns out jesus was a pilot who flew into a time warp

03:32:46 nubbins`: man, vice is like reality tv. not great but you end up getting stuck

03:32:48 nubbins`: http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/i-spent-an-afternoon-with-montreal-squeegee-punks-843

03:32:48 assbot: I Spent an Afternoon with Montreal Squeegee Punks | VICE Canada

03:33:01 nubbins`: I asked Dirty Mark where he got the name from: “I dunno, probably because I’ve fucked a lot of bitches without condoms and I may shit my pants from time to time.”

03:35:18 hanbot: mircea_popescu that looks just about right. not too often a bizarre facet of human behavior looks exactly as one'd imagined.

03:37:00 *: hanbot wonders if cargo cult was well explained to her or if she's merely getting more bizarre herself.

03:43:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00063525 = 7.4324 BTC [+] {2}

03:43:24 asciilifeform: re: cat & laser: experiment. turn on a laser pointer in a dark room; look at the edges of the spot. take picture of same with camera. notice difference.

03:43:49 asciilifeform: some of what you see 'fuzz' around the edges is actually diffraction patterns that form in your own eye.

03:44:05 asciilifeform: conceivably, cat (with a rather differently structured eye) sees rather different ones.

03:47:18 ThickAsThieves: i have one laser with changeable cutouts

03:47:28 ThickAsThieves: butterfly shape, etc

03:48:22 asciilifeform: also diffraction gratings. but the diffraction above happens in your own eye.

03:52:33 nubbins`: i wondered

04:08:54 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPoqNeR3_UA

04:08:54 assbot: Star Trek TNG Ambient Engine Noise (Idling for 24 hrs) - YouTube

04:08:56 nubbins`: only 16h left

04:12:58 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/white-house-orders-review-of-police-militarization-programs-1.2745153

04:12:58 assbot: White House orders review of police 'militarization' programs - World - CBC News


04:13:57 nubbins`: "white house orders review of civilian 'militarization' programs"

04:16:10 mircea_popescu: wait wut ?

04:16:43 mircea_popescu: "only da police may militarize BITCH"

04:21:31 mircea_popescu: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pkUFRs9vaXA/TDrOfTIDkqI/AAAAAAAAyjI/lZ1kUx6B9kk/s1600/4756763833_ffb7ccc7ba_b.jpg "does this make me look fat ?"

04:21:48 nubbins`: ah, the future

04:22:27 *: asciilifeform saw that in a fraudsters article, first thought 'plucked peacock'

04:35:06 mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/u4v6XjB.gif

04:39:22 mircea_popescu: !up dxrt

05:42:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00063493 = 14.4129 BTC [-]

06:07:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4437 @ 0.00063544 = 2.8194 BTC [+]

06:12:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19335 @ 0.00063408 = 12.2599 BTC [-] {3}

06:21:01 mircea_popescu: !up knotwork

06:38:01 X-Rob: mircea_popescu: aaand we're back

06:38:09 X-Rob: that was unpleasant

06:39:18 X-Rob: from 12:02:26 PM to 4:39pm

06:39:22 X-Rob: 5 hours.

06:45:43 RagnarDanneskjol: X-Rob - what platform do you use for the pool?

06:46:53 X-Rob: RagnarDanneskjol: That's 6 avalon3 blades

06:47:16 RagnarDanneskjol: sorry, I thought you ran the pool as well - I meant pool software

06:53:21 BingoBoingo: X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Power issues. Will be off for possibly a couple more hours. Will pro-rata a discount at current estimated << I thought I had power issues today

06:54:53 mircea_popescu: %p

06:56:52 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so how long was it unmining today ?

06:58:27 BingoBoingo: I have no idea yet. Just coming back online myself.

06:59:12 mircea_popescu: aite lemme know.

06:59:17 BingoBoingo: And coinminer's page seems down

07:02:17 BingoBoingo: ~6 hours and 50 minutes ago was the last mined block for our pool

07:06:55 mircea_popescu: aite ima go dance in the rain. later.

07:09:00 X-Rob: OMFG this pool is FUCKING TERRIBLE

07:11:33 BingoBoingo: Well, you still plan on throwing us a less terrible p2pool? When the digging is done?

07:13:09 RagnarDanneskjol: I'm working on sourcing you guys a few alternate pool options

07:13:35 RagnarDanneskjol: BingoBoingo - are you sure p2pool is the preferred platform?

07:14:05 BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: The transparency it affords is exceedingly desirable.

07:14:40 RagnarDanneskjol: got it

07:16:41 X-Rob: BingoBoingo: I'm going to set one up shortly.

07:16:53 X-Rob: shortly as in 'in a few hours'

07:25:45 BingoBoingo: K

07:49:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00063544 = 5.4966 BTC [+]

08:13:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33350 @ 0.00063296 = 21.1092 BTC [-] {4}

08:44:48 RagnarDanneskjol: https://github.com/tensorjack/coinbridge

08:44:49 assbot: tensorjack/coinbridge GitHub

09:29:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.0006315 = 13.1352 BTC [-] {2}

09:30:24 punkman: god morgen

09:31:56 RagnarDanneskjol: howdy

09:34:55 RagnarDanneskjol: I think I got China to seriously consider the circular multilat barter platform you recommended. many thanx for that

09:47:19 punkman: RagnarDanneskjol: cool, nobody needs another ripple clone

09:47:38 RagnarDanneskjol: fuken A

09:48:52 punkman: gonna attempt to clean up some chinese php now, god help me

09:49:20 RagnarDanneskjol: oh my

10:25:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28355 @ 0.00063546 = 18.0185 BTC [+] {2}

10:53:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17836 @ 0.00063233 = 11.2782 BTC [-] {2}

10:54:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.2885 = 0.577 BTC [+] {2}

10:59:32 jurov: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-to-steal-an-encryption-key-by-simply-touching-a-laptop

10:59:34 assbot: How to Steal an Encryption Key by Simply Touching a Laptop | Motherboard

11:00:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6964 @ 0.00063113 = 4.3952 BTC [-]

11:39:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00063251 = 19.8608 BTC [+] {2}

11:56:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00063094 = 12.7134 BTC [-] {2}

11:58:09 Vexual: is that an oscilloscope in your pocket?

12:04:48 Vexual: ./ink

12:39:42 RagnarDanneskjol: does anyone know if github reflects the latest atc ver? https://github.com/therealaltcoin/altcoin

12:39:43 assbot: therealaltcoin/altcoin GitHub

12:39:59 Vexual: yep, 1.0

12:40:39 RagnarDanneskjol: thank

12:45:16 Vexual: if memory serves it's cloned from 8.3 or some such

12:45:51 Vexual: thank pankak

12:48:02 RagnarDanneskjol: righty oh - I'm workin on a pool/explorer/web wallet for it today. poor coin has been woefully neglected

12:48:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00063585 = 11.5725 BTC [+]

12:48:14 Vexual: cool shit

12:57:25 Vexual: what pool server software do you intend to use

12:58:47 RagnarDanneskjol: going to try multiple options - prolly mpos cuz p2pool sux hairy balls

12:58:59 RagnarDanneskjol: the worst. I hate it

13:00:13 Vexual: nod

13:02:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] 119 @ 0.00615 = 0.7319 BTC [-]

13:03:11 Vexual: well if you're not busy tommorrow, perhaps you could make another exchange too

13:05:21 RagnarDanneskjol: that is a much taller order & above my paygrade... I know lotsa smart kids that can do it tho

13:48:00 Vexual: !up RagnarsBitch

13:54:16 Vexual: !s asciilifeform + drunk

13:54:17 assbot: 12 results for 'asciilifeform + drunk' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=asciilifeform+%2B+drunk

13:57:31 Vexual: !s shenzen

13:57:32 assbot: 4 results for 'shenzen' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=shenzen

14:04:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21723 @ 0.00063057 = 13.6979 BTC [-] {2}

14:18:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00063037 = 12.3553 BTC [-]

15:03:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00063469 = 19.7389 BTC [+] {3}

15:19:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00063594 = 4.706 BTC [+] {2}

16:00:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.58037915 BTC to 14`987 shares, 10545 satoshi per share

16:01:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 4.84144948 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 421 satoshi per share

16:42:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 964 @ 0.00101651 = 0.9799 BTC [-] {27}

16:50:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00062993 = 14.1104 BTC [-] {2}

17:02:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 570 @ 0.00099998 = 0.57 BTC [-]

17:14:21 penguirker: New blog post: http://explo.yt/post/2014/08/23/First-impressions-from-ownCloud

17:20:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00063684 = 16.5578 BTC [+] {2}

17:29:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2000 @ 0.00099999 = 2 BTC [+] {2}

17:30:14 jurov: anyone tried owncloud?

17:36:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00062959 = 6.4848 BTC [-] {2}

17:42:44 ThickAsThieves: How come a lot of scammers are british?

17:43:31 kakobrekla: they are?

17:44:30 ThickAsThieves: in my own life's observation

17:44:37 ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286634.msg8466137#msg8466137

17:44:37 assbot: [BTC-TC] CIPHERMINE.B1 - a virtual corporate bond with a 22% fixed-fiat APR

17:51:11 mthreat: ThickAsThieves: it's because of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWgWUnZgEyU

17:51:11 assbot: Jaguar - British Villains 'Rendezvous' - YouTube

17:52:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00099994 = 0.8999 BTC [+]

18:04:08 ThickAsThieves: see, i didnt make this up!

18:04:34 fluffypony: jurov yes

18:04:42 fluffypony: I struggled to get it working

18:04:56 fluffypony: and in the end I wasn't very impressed with it

18:05:25 xmj: what does owncloud do?

18:05:33 fluffypony: xmj: it's a cloud backend

18:05:38 fluffypony: so you can run your own Dropbox

18:05:49 jurov: xmj, i wrote about it above

18:05:55 xmj: ah

18:11:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.289 = 0.578 BTC [+]

18:15:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6280 @ 0.00083292 = 5.2307 BTC [-] {27}

18:20:45 X-Rob: BingoBoingo: I gave up on that pool. It was getting worse. I'm solo-mining to that address for the moment. I started writing a playbook so I can deploy pools easily, and I'll hopefully finish it after work today.

18:22:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.289 = 2.312 BTC [+]

18:22:38 kakobrekla: the overhead on that thing...

18:28:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00063595 = 7.6314 BTC [+]

18:36:54 mod6: ;;ticker

18:36:56 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 509.82, Best ask: 511.28, Bid-ask spread: 1.46000, Last trade: 511.29, 24 hour volume: 6908.55900746, 24 hour low: 487.0, 24 hour high: 512.69, 24 hour vwap: 499.523223544

18:37:32 mod6: %p

18:37:34 atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.11 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 642.91 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.78 TH/s

19:14:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00063594 = 21.2404 BTC [-]

19:17:25 BingoBoingo: X-Rob: Well, I see we've gotten a few blocks since the switch, so... Improvement

19:18:20 X-Rob: BingoBoingo: yeah. Seems to be mining away happily now. Just that I have no proof-of-mining, apart from random blocks appearing, and I don't like that. So yeah, I'll get onto making a pool later. But it's work-o'clock now.

19:19:00 BingoBoingo: X-Rob: Doesn't sound like the worst thing.

19:25:32 BingoBoingo: !up Duffer1

19:25:36 BingoBoingo: %d

19:25:38 atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 234620.37 in 1760 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -87.51

19:25:42 BingoBoingo: %t

19:25:44 atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 170 Ask: 221 Last Price: 170 24h-Vol: 0k High: 170 Low: 170 VWAP: 169

19:32:34 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

19:32:36 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 512.14, Best ask: 513.77, Bid-ask spread: 1.63000, Last trade: 513.77, 24 hour volume: 7398.67010189, 24 hour low: 487.0, 24 hour high: 515.95, 24 hour vwap: 500.399075407

19:32:49 BingoBoingo: ^ OMG BTC price is ATC block reward

19:42:24 mod6: ;;later tell mike_c need help with WoL

19:42:24 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:44:38 BingoBoingo: Interesting day in -dev it looks like http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2014/08/24#l1408839491

19:44:39 assbot: BitcoinStats

19:44:47 BingoBoingo: mod6: Any idea if atcbot can get a 30 day VWAP command?

19:48:06 mod6: i'd be preferable to me if x-bt would provide that in the JSON

19:48:23 mod6: i don't want to have to calculate anything if possible.

19:49:24 BingoBoingo: Ah

19:49:35 BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Can we get a 30 day VWAP?

19:49:37 kakobrekla: !up DiabloD3

19:49:52 kakobrekla: DiabloD3 noctua sucks compared to bequiet.

19:50:11 kakobrekla: way too much mechanical noise.

20:07:37 decimation: re: handle's rant on the black rioting: http://handleshaus.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/procrustean-rashomon/#comment-4591 << Vladimir has a great comment: "On the other hand, libertarians and conservatives often have some vague intuitive understanding of the real issue, i.e. that the change in policing is just another manifestation of the sad fact that Americans and other Anglos are no longer a free people capable of governing

20:07:39 assbot: Procrustean Rashomon | Handle's Haus

20:07:39 decimation: themselves. However, as in everything else, instead of coming to the ineluctable reactionary conclusions, they try to talk about it in ways that they hope it will get them status points and sympathy from progressives."

20:25:36 decimation: !up The20YearIRCloud

20:36:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1462 @ 0.0009974 = 1.4582 BTC [-] {8}

20:38:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.28899999 = 2.312 BTC [-]

20:45:37 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/503641069314392065

20:45:39 assbot: If you ask someone where he comes from & he answers "Europe",odds are he is Romanian or Bulgarian.A German wd answer "Germany".Same Fr/I/Sp

20:50:16 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/503295669919285248

20:50:17 assbot: Someone bemoaned that there were so few women in economics. But there are also very few men in economics.

20:50:28 pete_dushenski: ^or anywhere else for that matter

20:53:54 pete_dushenski: The20YearIRCloud: Eh, gdp between 2nd world and 3rd world is huge, much easier to pay some PMCs and take over a african despot than say kazachstan << reminds me of when elbonia went from a 2nd world country from a 3rd. the only difference being that now they had enough food and were starting to get picky about it.

20:57:04 pete_dushenski: http://imgur.com/uOUKRS4 << "airline food, again?"

20:57:04 assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

20:58:01 decimation: anti-fragile by taleb has some interesting points. I wonder if he would consider bitcoin "fragile". In one sense, it is fragile because its current implementation relies on fragile computers and somewhat poorly wrought software. In another sense, it is strongly anti-fragile because it benefits from any event that casts doubt on the ability of nation-states to manage their own scrip.

20:58:12 pete_dushenski: youtubetard: yea...Quebec will hopefully demonstrate a peaceful and constructive seccesion << this, i'd like to see

20:58:48 decimation: independent quebec would produce hydropower and baked goods, not much else...

20:59:13 pete_dushenski: decimation: to the extent that bitcoin is short usd, taleb would love it to the extent that he could be bothered to understand it

20:59:29 pete_dushenski: taleb's too distracted by the shenanigans in his homeland

21:00:23 pete_dushenski: independent quebec could produce all the same things they currently do: flour, maple syrup, construction management

21:01:15 decimation: yeah I get his point that old stuff is better, but sometimes a new technology does come along. While he derides electronics, it is clear that man will be making integrated circuits until the end of time (unless a better technology supersedes it)

21:02:12 decimation: in the case of bitcoin, I think he confuses the shoddy nature of modern computers with bitcoin as a technology, which can and will exist independently from today's crap-o-soft

21:02:32 pete_dushenski: xmj: What would make for a better home base in 2015 or 2016: Luxembourg, Monaco or Jersey/Guernsey? << try opatija, croatia. twas good enough for franz joseph i

21:02:52 decimation: the book comes off as a combination of "listen to the wisdom of your elders" and "get off my lawn"

21:03:30 pete_dushenski: decimation: it's almost exactly that, combined with "don't make naive, model-based predictions and bet all your chips on models mapping reality"

21:05:36 xmj: pete_dushenski: you missed the part where i was asking for germanic/anglosaxon hemisphere

21:06:00 xmj: pete_dushenski: i'm currently considering the area of Eindhoven NL

21:06:06 pete_dushenski: xmj that's a hemisphere nao?

21:06:18 xmj: pete_dushenski: always been9~

21:06:33 pete_dushenski: opatija is due south of berlin

21:06:46 xmj: commonwealth + central europe. House Windsor is germanic origin, eh

21:06:50 pete_dushenski: hemisphere being drawn longitudinally…

21:07:05 xmj: eh whatever

21:07:27 pete_dushenski: ok, so berlin then

21:07:35 xmj: ???

21:07:40 decimation: umm, croatia is a few hour drive to germany right?

21:07:48 xmj: berlin is not in the space of permissible answers as defined in the question.

21:08:05 Apocalyptic: <BingoBoingo> [21:49:51] Apocalyptic: Can we get a 30 day VWAP? // possibly

21:08:10 xmj: decimation: I'm currently in Ljubljana, it's not that much of a stretch to go there the next couple of days

21:09:37 jurov: have you met kako?

21:10:05 BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Such a thing would probably one of the most usefull things the environment around ATC could have, since... This thing trades slow

21:10:35 Apocalyptic: indeed

21:10:36 xmj: who is that and why would i want to?

21:13:44 jurov: kako is kakobrekla

21:14:06 jurov: and he's good fellow to meet in person

21:14:14 jurov: lives somewhere there

21:17:19 jurov: ;;gettrust xmj kakobrekla

21:17:20 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla. Trust relationship from user xmj to user kakobrekla: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xmj&dest=kakobrekla | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=kakobrekla | Rated since: Fri May 13 18:50:53 2011

21:17:49 BingoBoingo: bacon and eggs, even sausages most of the time would be appropriate gifts to bear xmj

21:18:09 xmj: somewhere where?

21:18:16 jurov: in slovenia

21:18:25 xmj: near opatija?

21:18:40 xmj: BingoBoingo: and why would i want to bring a stranger gifts?

21:18:46 xmj: especially those items i'd just eat myself.

21:18:48 *: xmj laughs

21:19:29 BingoBoingo: http://bitcoin-assets.com << See the section titled how to stay

21:19:30 assbot: #bitcoin-assets | You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.

21:19:57 jurov: idk, you met strangers in estonia or such too?

21:20:08 xmj: sure.

21:20:10 jurov: just a thought

21:20:15 xmj: i didn't bring them unwarranted gifts

21:20:26 xmj: kakobrekla: hi

21:20:51 BingoBoingo: ;;topic

21:20:51 gribble: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com

21:20:55 xmj: kakobrekla: jurov things it's necessary we meet. i'm in ljubljana for an indefinite amount of time, how about beer if you're in town?

21:21:02 xmj: kakobrekla: thinks*

21:21:11 BingoBoingo: It isn't unwarranted. It's on the first link in the topic

21:22:12 xmj: BingoBoingo: I don't get it?

21:22:38 BingoBoingo: xmj: Well someone founded the channel and created text for the page...

21:22:56 jurov: i don't think kako meant literal bacon and sausages

21:23:10 jurov: but then, it implies he's bi?

21:23:16 *: jurov ponders

21:23:35 xmj: jurov: when at home I eat eggs and bacon all day every day

21:25:06 jurov: enjoy. me too

21:25:08 jurov: all kinds of sausages.

21:25:19 xmj: ahahah

21:29:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 222 @ 0.00400002 = 0.888 BTC [-] {4}

21:29:50 jurov: in-person connections are antifragile

21:30:49 kakobrekla: ;;google monthy python bacon eggs spam

21:30:50 gribble: Monty Python - Spam - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE; Spam (Monty Python) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(Monty_Python); The Monty Python Spam Skit! - Detritus.org: http://www.detritus.org/spam/skit.html

21:30:58 kakobrekla: fyi

21:31:05 kakobrekla: hi xmj

21:31:20 kakobrekla: any approximate timeframe for how long you staying?

21:32:13 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: punkman: pete_dushenski: sounds like a death wish << i'd definitely mow him down. fucking biking hipsters. << real hipsters ride horses.

21:32:19 kakobrekla: my drivers license expired recently, havent gone through the bureaucracy of extending it yet so ima bit grounded - do you have a car here or how do you get around

21:33:22 jurov: ah they said nothing about sausages

21:33:42 xmj: kakobrekla: undefined

21:33:57 xmj: kakobrekla: no car, i'll stay until i get bored

21:34:04 xmj: kakobrekla: where are you based?

21:34:32 asciilifeform: he confuses the shoddy nature of modern computers with bitcoin as a technology, which can and will exist independently from today's crap-o-soft << this.

21:35:21 penguirker: New blog post: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/08/24/pretense-of-bitcoin-regulation-stalls-again-this-week/

21:39:26 asciilifeform: real hipsters ride horses << nah. they ride... grinding wheels. e.g., http://www.robotee.com/image/NEWS/31020_SoloWheel_timthumb.jpg

21:40:36 *: asciilifeform had a dream many years ago that his grandfather took an ancient grinding wheel from workshop, turned it upside-down, and taught him to ride it. and now people actually do something quite like this.

21:41:14 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3ADCF93.txt )

21:41:14 BingoBoingo: !b 2

21:43:34 jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3tU_SYSfOU roomba cat came to mind

21:43:34 assbot: Shark Cat on Roomba Chasing Duck - Original HD TWT Version - YouTube

21:47:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69700 @ 0.00063384 = 44.1786 BTC [-] {5}

21:48:39 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: lol i saw one of those around town recently. definitely not hipster material

21:48:59 pete_dushenski: hipster at least desire the company of others, unlike anyone who uses grinding wheels

21:56:48 asciilifeform: doesn't have to be alone - what's to stop somebody from riding grinding wheels in regiment ?

22:00:28 jurov: grinding wheel gang

22:01:28 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: well, cost.

22:01:35 pete_dushenski: they're $2k a piece

22:01:44 pete_dushenski: a bicycle is $100

22:02:12 pete_dushenski: hipsters tend to be pretty broke, spending all disposable income on max iphone plans

22:02:47 pete_dushenski: not that horses are cheap, but at least the ride in teams properly

22:02:57 pete_dushenski: s/the/they

22:03:04 pete_dushenski: http://www.amazon.com/Inventist-SW1-Solowheel-by/dp/B007Q3FZYK

22:03:06 assbot: Amazon.com : Solowheel by Inventist : Childrens Ride Ons : Sports & Outdoors

22:08:20 assbot: ninjashogun +v failed; L1: 0, L2: -3

22:09:06 kakobrekla: !up ninjashogun

22:10:42 kakobrekla: usg nsa wifi?

22:12:56 kakobrekla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu you can sort by weight now.

22:12:57 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:20:27 ninjashogun: thanks kakobrekla.

22:28:18 ninjashogun: laters*

22:28:21 pete_dushenski: *BingoBoingo likes ben_vulpes lack of serious competition << likewise!

22:32:34 xmj: huh.

22:34:13 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: I mean if the situation for the blacks improved... would there be a Ferguson? << read the lulziest headline on a national newspaper yesterday "blacks still aren't equal to whites. some think obama should do more."

23:09:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44048 @ 0.00063299 = 27.8819 BTC [-]

23:13:16 danielpbarron: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://danielpbarron.com/DerpReport/ << updated

23:13:17 assbot: Derp Report

23:13:17 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:14:01 abathingape: http://lists.tlug.jp/ML/1408/msg00061.html

23:14:03 assbot: TLUG Mailing List

23:14:18 abathingape: "...due to work being much more busy than expected (especially in the last 3 years)."

23:20:27 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: jewland too. it's just not in the cards for that continent, having civilised countries there. << myeah. move jews and boers to south america already.

23:23:38 pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/sierraclub/status/503618001523204096 << sucks to be californian

23:23:39 assbot: Stunning photo of CA's drought from /NASA & /KTVU - this is a pic of Folsom Lake: http://t.co/VU5iRS11bo

23:25:50 kakobrekla: well why did they leave the gates open!

23:26:27 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: re:http://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=20197180&postcount=28 << I've actually bought a drink with Euros at an American bar

23:27:07 danielpbarron: lol, where?

23:27:57 pete_dushenski: danielpbarron on the dams!

23:28:09 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Just some mexican bar

23:28:15 pete_dushenski: http://online.wsj.com/articles/dining-from-trash-to-table-in-brooklyn-1408756306 << derelicte my balls

23:28:16 assbot: Dining From Trash to Table in Brooklyn - WSJ

23:28:19 BingoBoingo: *themed

23:31:42 BingoBoingo: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/24/justin-cosma-ferguson-police_n_5705409.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

23:31:42 assbot: Ferguson Police Officer Justin Cosma Hog-Tied And Injured A Young Child, Lawsuit Alleges

23:32:23 mircea_popescu: hi all, and welcome to mp's string of sunday pronnouncements!

23:32:39 mircea_popescu: pronouncement #1 : and he said unto them lo! that bitbet now allows searching by weight of bets!

23:33:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00062894 = 6.7926 BTC [-]

23:34:47 mircea_popescu: pronouncement #b : and then he spake thus : ye knoweth the evil people of the world know no rest, for the very fire of hell scorches their gullets on the inside so they may never sit quietly in a room. and therefore it will come to pass that they will put pressure on freenode, starting for instance last thursday.

23:35:34 mircea_popescu: knoweth ye, that while it is unlikely for freenode to buckle, more than anything because its brains are so scattered it's unlikely to manage to gather enough management to do anything, nevertheless this isn't a reason to not build parachute

23:36:11 mircea_popescu: and therefore! whosoever knoweth well the workings of the irc demon and how to set it up let me know, for we shall have a plan b, and our plan b shall take over the earth!

23:36:31 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0YBA60N.txt )

23:36:31 BingoBoingo: !b 3

23:36:42 mircea_popescu: so end the glorious sunday pronouncements, join us next sunday for nude frolicking in the grass and fire spitting.

23:39:02 ThickAsThieves: praised be

23:39:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00062894 = 2.4843 BTC [-]

23:39:27 mircea_popescu: someone should start a church of confusing form with function.

23:39:34 mircea_popescu: that's an easy sell if there ever was one.

23:39:41 hanbot: nice weight sortage

23:39:43 ThickAsThieves: USA

23:40:02 mircea_popescu: i guess the catholics also did pretty well on the score.

23:45:44 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

23:45:46 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 506.85, Best ask: 507.54, Bid-ask spread: 0.69000, Last trade: 507.86, 24 hour volume: 5778.20961167, 24 hour low: 495.02, 24 hour high: 515.95, 24 hour vwap: 504.13191356

23:46:00 BingoBoingo: ;;parachute

23:46:00 gribble: Error: "parachute" is not a valid command.

23:46:04 BingoBoingo: !parachute

23:46:24 BingoBoingo: %parachute

23:50:01 asciilifeform: aha parachute!

23:50:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: care to air out the dirt? why let the bastards suffer quietly ?

23:53:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know there's this pesky rule of nature that the more one speaks the less one knows.

23:53:14 mircea_popescu: this thing seems to hold true in the most perverse and unexpected of applications.

23:53:15 asciilifeform: aha sure

23:53:36 asciilifeform: but before i can offer a potential parachute - need to know threat model.

23:53:42 asciilifeform: gpg-gram if you like.

23:54:14 mircea_popescu: that's immaterial. the threat defense, however, will be an array of geographically distributed servers which someone will have to shepherd the ircd on.

23:54:45 mircea_popescu: you know, just like freenode, except with a helluva lot more moneyz.

23:55:22 mircea_popescu: aand problem solved.

23:55:30 mircea_popescu: ty for participating everyone :)

23:56:29 *: asciilifeform would still like to know who, approximately, is likely to bring approximately what kind of siege weapon to his gates before dusting off the box kept for this purpose.

23:56:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's all social engineering. the nsa does not have any technical capbility worth the mention.

23:57:20 *: asciilifeform pictured 'complaint' wankers, rather than nsa

23:57:23 mircea_popescu: on one hand because it is actually very limited on th edirect, on the other hand because it is very affraid to use even the little it has lest a hb rehash.