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Transcript for 25-02-2014, 4578 lines:

00:07:58 fract4l: http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/77745633839/bitcoins-apocalyptic-moment-mt-gox-may-have-lost

00:08:06 fract4l: gox lost 750k btc

00:08:53 zoinky: LOL

00:09:19 zoinky: two bit idiot

00:09:47 Namworld: lol whut. This is golden bullshit right at the first paragraph. Gotta read that.

00:09:59 fract4l: sell your goxcoins on builder ASAP

00:10:03 fract4l: going to zero

00:10:09 zoinky: oh the fud

00:11:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1021 @ 0.0002 = 0.2042 BTC [+] {3}

00:13:37 Bugpowder: I'm hooping my analysis is somewhat more reality based

00:14:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 245 @ 0.00491995 = 1.2054 BTC [-] {5}

00:18:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 62 @ 0.004919 = 0.305 BTC [-] {2}

00:18:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 128 @ 0.0055 = 0.704 BTC

00:19:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 151 @ 0.00491899 = 0.7428 BTC [-] {3}

00:22:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00489925 = 0.9799 BTC [-] {2}

00:22:22 dignork: fract4l: apparently one of your nicks was PanicSellBTC, or maybe just ip match, but still, good luck

00:23:12 MisterE: where is the bottom?

00:23:15 fract4l: dignork: hahah. how did you look that up

00:23:16 MisterE: this feels like it

00:23:24 MisterE: time to buy eh?

00:23:36 mike_c: wait.. are you saying gox is insolvent??

00:23:51 dignork: fract4l: otcdb street magic

00:24:15 fract4l: url?

00:24:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 150 @ 0.0055 = 0.825 BTC {2}

00:24:40 fract4l: i really should start using vps's more often

00:24:51 KRS-One: yea

00:25:07 fract4l: can anyone recommend a good one that takes BTC w/ instant setup?

00:25:13 mike_c: fract4l can i sell you my bitcoin? i'll send first.

00:26:11 fract4l: $1 each. thnx

00:26:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.06089999 = 0.4263 BTC [+]

00:27:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00489999 = 0.2156 BTC [+]

00:33:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 92 @ 0.00475759 = 0.4377 BTC [-] {6}

00:34:05 dexX7: must be legit - "bitcoin" (not "Bitcoin", well at least sometimes), "Blockchain.info" (not blockchain.info) and round quotation marks.. matches the style used in previous statements ;)

00:34:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00455327 = 0.9107 BTC [-] {9}

00:35:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00486973 = 0.3652 BTC [+] {3}

00:36:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.00489 = 0.2201 BTC [+]

00:37:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 326 @ 0.00489352 = 1.5953 BTC [+] {3}

00:37:57 KRS-One: are u guys watching these marekts

00:38:01 KRS-One: this is monumental

00:38:07 nubbins`: ;;ticker --market all

00:38:14 gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 137.90103, vol: 102195.07906128 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 512.52, vol: 52396.43876218 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 544.756, vol: 21501.47774 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 515.0, vol: 33888.95997588 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 560.98, vol: 379.37892913 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 573.17836, vol: 13452.49200000 | Volume-weighted last average: 348.666592134

00:39:27 ThickAsThieves: what hapnd?

00:40:16 ThickAsThieves: some guy posted a blog with no data?

00:40:18 ThickAsThieves: lol

00:40:25 Namworld: yes

00:40:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00489 = 0.2347 BTC [-]

00:40:37 nubbins`: on his tumblr, no less

00:40:42 Bugpowder: jumpy folks

00:41:12 ThickAsThieves: http://www.coindesk.com/playboy-plus-accepting-bitcoin-payments/

00:41:20 ThickAsThieves: moon the moon!

00:41:28 Bugpowder: The good news is that I have interfaced matlab with block chain.info so I can spider through these addresses instead of hand analyzing them

00:41:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18622 @ 0.0008827 = 16.4376 BTC [+] {2}

00:41:46 mike_c: wow. that sounds cool. is it performant?

00:41:47 Bugpowder: Soon we will see what happened to the cold wallets.

00:42:17 mike_c: did i just make up a word? what i meant is it is fast?

00:42:23 Bugpowder: I doubt it

00:42:37 nubbins`: heh

00:42:43 Bugpowder: 2 seconds per block

00:42:53 dignork: Bugpowder: how do you locate the wallets? I mean what are the graph scan conditions?

00:42:55 Bugpowder: but I probably only need <100 blocks

00:42:56 kakobrekla: so no need for me to pull the data?

00:43:01 Bugpowder: kakobrekla: correct

00:43:03 kakobrekla: k

00:43:58 Bugpowder: dignork: all the addresses that had near even splits off of this transaction https://blockchain.info/tx/478ea915aa3a2e54503c43e1c5659722b42a784412423a05394c83a44affb805

00:44:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00489989 = 0.98 BTC [+]

00:44:43 Bugpowder: A bunch were rapidly chained down to addresses of a few 1000 BTC each then they sat for a while

00:44:59 dignork: Bugpowder: ok, but how do you know the owner of 1M1ZkWpHfuQthji2AVsGDvpfY2PrcXQar6 ?

00:45:00 Bugpowder: The list may not be exhaustive though

00:45:06 Bugpowder: dignork: That is known

00:45:13 Bugpowder: to be mt gox

00:45:32 Bugpowder: as the mt gox green address passes it the coins several links up the chain.

00:45:33 dignork: Bugpowder: public sources? link?

00:45:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00489089 = 0.1076 BTC [-] {2}

00:45:53 nubbins`: mike_c any luck with eulora?

00:45:59 Bugpowder: http://imgur.com/a/rzLCu

00:46:00 ozbot: Gox Analysis - Imgur

00:46:02 Bugpowder: see inset text

00:46:16 mike_c: pretty bad luck. chetty suggested graphics drivers. so i updated my drivers and it hosed the box.

00:46:25 nubbins`: ah, bummer

00:46:35 nubbins`: might be worth setting up a VM

00:46:36 mike_c: so i reinstalled, switching from ubuntu 13 to 12.04

00:46:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00489 = 0.1956 BTC [-] {2}

00:46:48 mike_c: installed drivers, ran it.

00:46:58 mike_c: and got a seg fault even earlier than before

00:47:03 *: nubbins` nods

00:47:14 KRS-One: Bugpowder: matlap + blockchain ftw

00:47:16 KRS-One: gj

00:47:20 KRS-One: matlab

00:47:30 jurov: yes? i got segfault too

00:47:42 jurov: right on startup

00:47:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00489 = 0.4205 BTC [-] {2}

00:47:48 jurov: (eulora)

00:47:50 mike_c: yeah, that's where i'm at.

00:47:58 mike_c: has anyone actually got it running?

00:48:29 nubbins`: heh nope

00:48:35 nubbins`: what bundle did you grab CS from, 0.0.1?

00:48:37 jurov: 0.0.1 was working

00:48:39 Bugpowder: I need to go record from the mouse brains... Will put this on hold for a bit.

00:48:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.00489 = 0.1516 BTC [-]

00:48:45 mike_c: nubbins`: yes.

00:48:48 Bugpowder: back in a few with more data.

00:48:55 jurov: i tried CS both from gentoo ebuild

00:49:11 jurov: but it was 2.0 and eulora needs 2.1 ??

00:49:16 mike_c: yeah

00:49:20 jurov: which isn't released yet

00:49:21 mike_c: bleeding edge

00:49:24 nubbins`: i tried compiling a couple of 2.1 snapshots

00:49:26 nubbins`: no dice

00:49:55 jurov: eulora doesn't ship their CS cource?

00:50:18 nubbins`: i feel like it's in one of the earlier bundles

00:50:24 nubbins`: downloading em now

00:50:30 jurov: maybe they patched it internally

00:50:53 jurov: becuse i then used CS from 0.0.1 and it segfaults

00:50:57 nubbins`: ha

00:51:00 nubbins`: i mean, ah

00:51:11 nubbins`: wasnt laughing :(

00:51:19 jurov: you!

00:51:20 jurov: :D

00:51:21 nubbins`: D:

00:51:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.00489 = 0.1663 BTC [-]

00:52:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 112 @ 0.00488899 = 0.5476 BTC [-] {2}

00:52:56 nubbins`: i'm gonna set up a wordpress blog in the next couple days so we can have a permanent home for compiling/troubleshooting etc info

00:53:20 mike_c: good idea

00:53:28 mike_c: maybe wiki?

00:53:40 nubbins`: not much experience with wikis

00:53:43 nubbins`: and wordpress is free ;D

00:53:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00489647 = 0.9793 BTC [+] {3}

00:53:57 mike_c: so is wikimedia. just could be good to let anyone edit it

00:54:05 nubbins`: free hosting?

00:54:20 mike_c: lemme look

00:54:32 nubbins`: didn't think so, but honestly don't know

00:54:55 jurov: you can ask chetty if it can be right on minigame.bz, no?

00:55:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.00489989 = 0.3283 BTC [+] {2}

00:55:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.125 = 0.75 BTC [-] {2}

00:56:07 mike_c: meh, http://wikkii.com/wiki/Free_Wiki_Hosting

00:56:26 mike_c: i'd be willing to host one if there's interest.

00:56:37 nubbins`: http://wikkii.com/wiki/Features

00:56:38 ozbot: Features - Free Wiki Hosting - Wikkii - Free MediaWiki Host

00:56:39 nubbins`: hm.

00:56:40 jurov: i have nice and horribly underutilized php hosting at gandi, too

00:56:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.004899 = 0.4899 BTC [-]

00:57:01 nubbins`: well i've got a saucy domain name

00:57:05 jurov: only use that free hosting if they allow backups

00:57:07 nubbins`: with our powers combined...

00:57:08 mike_c: btcalpha isn't exactly crumbling under the traffic load :)

00:57:45 jurov: welll... what about the jursdiction

00:57:49 mike_c: saucy domain name? what is it?

00:57:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.0048925 = 0.2642 BTC [-] {3}

00:58:11 nubbins`: eulorum.org

00:58:40 nubbins`: oh, CS in 0.0.1 is precompiled? i can't use this D:

00:59:37 nubbins`: (eulorum being both the singular of eulora and a portmanteau of "eulora" and "forum")

00:59:58 mike_c: i like it. so we have a domain name. what about software? any suggestions better than wikimedia?

01:00:12 nubbins`: i gotta say, i don't really like wikis

01:00:18 nubbins`: too disorganized

01:00:40 mike_c: you think blog style is better than community edit?

01:01:06 jurov: anything can get disorganized

01:01:16 nubbins`: well, if you give a few people write access

01:01:33 nubbins`: it's not a huge effort to modify, say, a post about compile instructions based on feedback in comments

01:02:19 nubbins`: that said, blog comments aren't great for back-and-forth

01:03:16 nubbins`: oof, lel, the first three links on http://minigame.bz/eulora/binaries/ all point to 0.0.1

01:03:16 mike_c: i prefer wiki-style, but you're the one with the hot domain name

01:03:19 nubbins`: just re-downloaded it ;(

01:03:36 nubbins`: jurov's the one with the underutilized hosting

01:03:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 300 @ 0.00489971 = 1.4699 BTC [+] {5}

01:04:48 jurov: mike_c has hosrting, too. but it's in the US?

01:05:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0049 = 0.196 BTC [+]

01:05:08 mike_c: virginia. it's good stuff, very close to nsa for easy monitoring.

01:05:13 nubbins`: heh

01:06:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0049 = 0.196 BTC [+]

01:06:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00088342 = 5.3447 BTC [+]

01:06:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.12225225 = 0.489 BTC [-] {2}

01:06:28 nubbins`: well, doesn't matter much to me who hosts it, why don't you guys flip a ;;coin or have an armwrestle or something

01:07:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 74 @ 0.00485 = 0.3589 BTC [-]

01:08:02 jurov: well, i'd be like, here's sftp account, diy

01:08:10 jurov: maybe mike can help more?

01:08:37 mike_c: i'd be fine with putting something up

01:09:28 mike_c: i mean, if it's wordpress we can just let them host. but i can throw up a wiki if that's the decision.

01:09:45 nubbins`: let's try a wiki and see what happens

01:09:51 mike_c: ok

01:10:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 51 @ 0.00489999 = 0.2499 BTC [+]

01:10:06 nubbins`: PM me dns servers and i'll update

01:10:30 mike_c: sure. i'll set it up tomorrow and send you info.

01:10:42 nubbins`: lovely!

01:11:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 716 @ 0.00492927 = 3.5294 BTC [+] {3}

01:11:41 jurov: good. i'm at amazon, too, if you need sth

01:12:02 *: nubbins` nods

01:12:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2020 @ 0.00498917 = 10.0781 BTC [+] {3}

01:13:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 498 @ 0.00499873 = 2.4894 BTC [+] {3}

01:13:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.108555 = 0.6513 BTC [+] {2}

01:13:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.06089999 = 0.3045 BTC [-]

01:13:54 MisterE: " MisterE, the volume numbers on MPOE for depth are complete and utter nonesense, he's claiming that his ultra thinly traded virtual stock trading on it's own market is worth more than a mtgox because the spot price was ludicrous"

01:14:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 670 @ 0.005 = 3.35 BTC [+] {5}

01:15:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.109 = 0.436 BTC [+] {2}

01:15:29 nubbins`: the coffee i'm drinking is worth more than gox

01:16:09 MisterE: lol

01:16:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10994 BTC [+]

01:16:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0609 = 0.1218 BTC [+]

01:16:13 MisterE: this was back at the time

01:16:51 MisterE: note date nubbins` http://fraudsters.com/2012/why-smpoe-is-worth-more-than-mtgox/

01:16:53 bit14: !last havelock neobee

01:16:53 assbot: Last trade for NEOBEE on HAVELOCK was at 0.005 BTC [+]

01:17:06 nubbins`: heh

01:17:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10995 = 0.3299 BTC [+]

01:17:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.005 = 0.25 BTC [+]

01:18:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.005 = 0.2 BTC [+]

01:18:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-] {2}

01:24:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.005 = 0.55 BTC [+] {3}

01:25:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.005 = 0.16 BTC [+] {2}

01:27:23 jurov: !t m x.eur

01:27:24 assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.002 / 0.00205889 / 0.0021 (849 shares, 1.75 BTC), 7D: 0.002 / 0.00211812 / 0.00226762 (3958 shares, 8.38 BTC), 30D: 0.00166114 / 0.00187389 / 0.00226762 (16869 shares, 31.61 BTC)

01:28:09 jurov: ;;calc 1/0.00211812

01:28:09 gribble: 472.116782807

01:28:50 jurov: ;;bc,convert eur

01:28:51 gribble: 1 BTC = 529.12 USD = 385.19936 eur

01:29:00 jurov: mhm

01:32:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00088152 = 11.1953 BTC [-] {2}

01:32:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 108 @ 0.005 = 0.54 BTC [+] {2}

01:32:51 pankkake: http://www.reddit.com/r/LivingWageCoin/

01:32:51 ozbot: Crytocurrency of the Working Man

01:33:01 nubbins`: crytocurrency

01:33:11 nubbins`: protected by crytography

01:33:20 nubbins`: comlicated crytograhy

01:34:21 dignork: lol: coins are generated at the discretion of the chairman

01:38:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49225 = 0.9845 BTC [+] {2}

01:46:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00488573 = 1.2214 BTC [-] {4}

01:49:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.004999 = 0.2999 BTC [+]

01:55:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 302 @ 0.00485987 = 1.4677 BTC [-] {4}

01:55:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.12879992 = 0.3864 BTC [+]

01:56:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.12879992 = 0.5152 BTC [+]

01:56:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00485 = 0.1067 BTC [-]

01:58:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.12879993 = 0.3864 BTC [+]

01:58:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.004999 = 0.175 BTC [+] {2}

02:00:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 417 @ 0.00499899 = 2.0846 BTC [-]

02:02:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.12884496 = 2.5769 BTC [+] {3}

02:05:22 kakobrekla: o look

02:05:26 kakobrekla: scammer is now tv host

02:05:27 kakobrekla: http://www.moneyandtech.com/feb24-news-update/

02:07:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 499 @ 0.0049999 = 2.495 BTC [+]

02:08:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 155 @ 0.00499999 = 0.775 BTC [+] {3}

02:08:22 nubbins`: ah hey, mintchip

02:08:24 nubbins`: forgot about that

02:10:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.005 = 1 BTC [+]

02:12:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 140 @ 0.005 = 0.7 BTC [+] {3}

02:17:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 750 @ 0.00499946 = 3.7496 BTC [-] {3}

02:26:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00088346 = 3.1805 BTC [+]

02:26:49 Bugpowder: Take this with a grain of salt http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft

02:26:53 Bugpowder: Also gox is halted

02:27:39 the20year: yep

02:29:21 nubbins`: on the bright side, i'm getting further with compiling crystal space on osx

02:29:54 mike_c: i just got it running on a VM. it wasn't 100% healthy, but it ran.

02:30:16 mike_c: i picked up some rotten fruit.

02:30:20 nubbins`: right on!!

02:30:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.128 = 0.256 BTC [-]

02:30:26 *: nubbins` high fives

02:30:27 nubbins`: congrats

02:30:40 nubbins`: you may be the first pleb to successfully get 0.0.4 running

02:30:46 mike_c: :) hopefully i can run it on an actual machine and get better performance

02:30:53 nubbins`: nod, now the real work begins

02:31:08 nubbins`: VMs present pretty standard hardware

02:31:16 the20year: $488

02:31:24 ThickAsThieves: people should rally the price to make sure gox dies

02:32:44 greenspan_fan: so, thoughts on the legitimacy of the my gox slide deck?

02:33:11 nubbins`: the one that came from some random nobody's tumblr, you mean? :D

02:33:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 207 @ 0.00499899 = 1.0348 BTC [-]

02:33:29 nubbins`: i doubt he would have done such a thing just to drive traffic to his blog. which happens to be a tumblr.

02:33:30 nubbins`: ;p

02:34:36 nubbins`: CS still compiling... occasional bouts of panic until i realize they're warnings i'm seeing, not errors

02:34:47 ThickAsThieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1yuox1/copy_of_the_alleged/cfny2g0

02:34:47 ozbot: scottansan comments on Copy of the alleged MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft

02:34:57 greenspan_fan: yeah, a guy on hacker news suggests that the redacted slide is visible using illustrator

02:34:59 greenspan_fan: http://i.imgur.com/u9aP9Hg.png

02:35:25 kakobrekla: gox halted?

02:35:39 kakobrekla: does it seem like a good time?

02:36:06 kakobrekla: mark sez price is 135, halts gox at 135.

02:36:17 ThickAsThieves: i can check the PDF in a sec

02:36:22 greenspan_fan: I just don't know.

02:36:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.48 = 2.4 BTC [-] {2}

02:36:32 greenspan_fan: on the one hand, gox is run so badly

02:36:49 greenspan_fan: but on the other, this would be the finest example of internet trolling meets market manipulation in recent memory

02:36:50 kakobrekla: so badly it makes bitstamp look good

02:36:57 nubbins`: ugh, i don't want to sign up for a scribd account

02:37:03 nubbins`: someone paste a dropbox link etc to that pdf?

02:37:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.005 = 0.485 BTC [+] {3}

02:37:33 dexX7: http://de.scribd.com/doc/209050732/MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft

02:37:34 ozbot: MtGox Situation: Crisis Strategy Draft

02:37:35 the20year: from scribd?

02:37:47 ThickAsThieves: i can confirm

02:37:49 nubbins`: i want to download it, it's asking me to log in

02:37:51 nubbins`: ah, k

02:37:53 ThickAsThieves: the redactions are removable

02:37:58 nubbins`: such lel

02:38:20 dexX7: did you really consider this could be real? =D

02:38:21 nubbins`: there was an occasion a few years ago here where some government department decided to redact their own docs

02:38:26 greenspan_fan: do the amounts seem plausible?

02:38:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02163333 = 0.1298 BTC [-] {3}

02:38:33 nubbins`: they did this by changing the background color to black in a Word doc.

02:39:27 ThickAsThieves: the amounts must be in shorthand

02:39:44 ThickAsThieves: thousands maybe?

02:39:56 greenspan_fan: yeah, thousands usd

02:40:08 Jakamoko: shit that is a lot

02:40:08 nubbins`: kibibucks

02:40:24 ThickAsThieves: maybe 10,000

02:40:26 nubbins`: no, sorry, kilobucks

02:40:28 nubbins`: i'm all mixed up

02:40:37 ThickAsThieves: salary would be too low for 1000

02:40:55 greenspan_fan: april 2015- march 2016 "other" is 150,000

02:41:04 dexX7: nubbins`: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhl8b6k1rya78xc/209050732-MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft.pdf

02:41:15 ThickAsThieves: i dunnp these numbers seem weird

02:41:20 nubbins`: dexX7: tyvm, got it

02:41:32 greenspan_fan: yeah, this seems like either a genius ploy

02:41:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.0008835 = 23.1035 BTC [+] {2}

02:41:46 greenspan_fan: or there really is a consulting firm as lousy as mt gox is an exchange

02:42:16 nubbins`: "The reality is that MtGox can go bankrupt at any moment, and certainly deserves to as a company"

02:42:20 nubbins`: ^ so fake

02:42:35 nubbins`: who the fuck would put a sentence like that in an internal memo?

02:43:29 ThickAsThieves: PDF was made in Mac OS

02:43:41 ThickAsThieves: no other metadata i can see

02:44:03 ThickAsThieves: made with keynote_cirrus

02:44:04 nubbins`: seems like a poorly-orchestrated smear

02:44:18 nubbins`: complete with fake-redactions

02:44:44 Jakamoko: doesn't look real, but it is working. bitstamp is sliding under 500

02:45:22 nubbins`: eeeee, ton of deprecated method calls

02:45:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.005 = 0.18 BTC [+]

02:46:29 greenspan_fan: another possibility is that the pdf is substantially accurate, but still fabricated

02:46:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1169 @ 0.005 = 5.845 BTC [+]

02:46:51 the20year: alot of people are assuming alot of things

02:46:53 ThickAsThieves: created date for the PDF is tomorrow

02:46:54 ThickAsThieves: weird

02:47:24 ThickAsThieves: guess it leans to it being from asia

02:47:28 ThickAsThieves: fwiw

02:47:43 greenspan_fan: yeah, I would bet on it being fake

02:48:33 dexX7: Ryan Selkis

02:48:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 115 @ 0.0051823 = 0.596 BTC [+] {2}

02:48:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0002002 = 0.2002 BTC [+]

02:48:53 dexX7: blacked out the numbers

02:49:04 dexX7: at least his name is bound to the note

02:49:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 146 @ 0.0052526 = 0.7669 BTC [+] {2}

02:50:03 nubbins`: ugh

02:50:05 nubbins`: ryan selkis

02:50:08 nubbins`: aka "the two-bit idiot"

02:50:10 the20year: Who's that?

02:50:20 nubbins`: aka the guy whose tumblr blog this story came from.

02:50:31 dexX7: that's him?

02:50:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.104 BTC [-]

02:50:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 280 @ 0.00529157 = 1.4816 BTC [+] {4}

02:50:47 nubbins`: http://www.meetup.com/Harvard-Bitcoin-Meetup/members/67850542/

02:50:47 ozbot: Ryan Selkis -

02:51:12 nubbins`: BUSTED

02:51:14 dexX7: yea, but is thsi the guy from the stupid blog?

02:51:28 dexX7: because there is https://twitter.com/RyanSelkis etc.

02:51:35 Apocalyptic: the funny thing is that the halt was after the doc got released

02:51:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.05030097 = 0.1006 BTC [-]

02:51:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.00540514 = 0.5243 BTC [+] {5}

02:52:43 nubbins`: http://bitcoinaware.com/article/8861/bitbeat-apple-drops-bitcoin-app-from-app-store-bitcoiners-not-happy/

02:52:44 ozbot: Bitcoin Aware | Aritcles | BitBeat: Apple Drops Bitcoin App From App Store, Bitcoiners Not Happy

02:52:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 321 @ 0.00545 = 1.7495 BTC [+] {8}

02:52:49 greenspan_fan: well, yeah

02:52:52 nubbins`: "...wrote Ryan Selkis, who publishes the “Two-Bit Idiot” daily newsletter"

02:53:25 nubbins`: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/02/11/bitbeat-bitcoins-honest-nodes-under-attack/

02:53:26 ozbot: BitBeat: Bitcoin’s ‘Honest Nodes’ Under Attack - MoneyBeat - WSJ

02:53:32 nubbins`: "...Ryan Selkis wrote in his Two-Bit Idiot newsletter"

02:53:44 nubbins`: lel x 5

02:53:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 106 @ 0.00545 = 0.5777 BTC [+] {4}

02:53:50 dexX7: ah hehehe

02:54:06 nubbins`: so either this guy fabricated the whole thing

02:54:19 ThickAsThieves: “I am livid, just like so many of you,” wrote Ryan Selkis, who publishes the “Two-Bit Idiot” daily newsletter. “For them to backdoor their users like this on Bitcoin makes me want to start an uprising. (I think others may have already started it though.)”

02:54:21 nubbins`: or he found a legit doc and self-redacted a bunch of info for no reason

02:54:32 greenspan_fan: I am trying to find a btc address to see if he's dumb enough to be buying massively after releasing damaging news

02:54:50 ThickAsThieves: well itd be on exchange

02:54:55 ThickAsThieves: so probly not seeable

02:55:10 greenspan_fan: alas and alack, he's not blatantly asking for tips somewhere

02:55:39 greenspan_fan: meanwhile, every exchange is down 20% while the dude's launching some kind of btc venture fund

02:55:42 ThickAsThieves: true or not, fukn bitcoin is amazing!

02:55:42 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

02:55:48 nubbins`: hahahahahah what a fucking rube, you can just highlight the goddamn redacted text

02:55:53 nubbins`: MY SIDES

02:55:55 ThickAsThieves: best trolls ever

02:56:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.12300001 = 0.492 BTC [-]

02:56:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00545 = 0.109 BTC [+]

02:56:56 greenspan_fan: yeah. I will further speculate that it's his hoax, because the slide deck is all about social media and assorted bullshit

02:57:13 the20year: where is this redacted balance sheet from?

02:57:15 dexX7: the black on the text is simply a comment, you can delete it or set the transparency to 0

02:57:28 greenspan_fan: when it should go into detail about the whole "not going bankrupt and not going to jail" plan

02:57:44 greenspan_fan: here's the imgur link of the unredacted page

02:57:45 greenspan_fan: http://i.imgur.com/u9aP9Hg.png

02:57:46 nubbins`: dexX7 nod

02:57:49 nubbins`: my sides

02:57:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 19 @ 0.0055 = 0.1045 BTC

02:58:11 nubbins`: actually in osx preview it's not even black but translucent grey

02:58:22 greenspan_fan: of course, the rebranding as "gox.com" is hilarious, too

02:58:30 greenspan_fan: "drop the mt, it's cleaner"

02:58:51 ThickAsThieves: there are no MX records for gox.com fwiw

02:58:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]

02:58:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 118 @ 0.00549039 = 0.6479 BTC [+] {3}

02:59:31 nubbins`: as is the "we are a bunch of cunts who shouldn't be in business" line

02:59:33 nubbins`: like

02:59:39 nubbins`: srsly, does he even internet?

02:59:44 nubbins`: does he even business?

03:00:28 ThickAsThieves: i actually approve of the brand change

03:00:32 ThickAsThieves: :)

03:00:52 Guest88068: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-regarding-the-insolvency-of-mtgox

03:00:56 ThickAsThieves: fake or not, the current one is offensive

03:01:46 ThickAsThieves: wtf is that statement

03:02:10 ThickAsThieves: they are confirming the insolvency, or trolled too?

03:02:19 ThickAsThieves: they should have been explicit

03:03:01 greenspan_fan: haha

03:03:07 greenspan_fan: man this is fucking great

03:03:12 dexX7: wow

03:03:26 the20year: i got kicked from #bitcoin for posting that

03:03:32 greenspan_fan: the biggest coinbase booster somehow stumbles onto documents pertaining to the demise of coinbase's biggest rival

03:03:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 53 @ 0.005491 = 0.291 BTC [+]

03:04:19 ThickAsThieves: maybe it's the USG!

03:04:31 greenspan_fan: and, fwiw, the whole shitstorm started with the guy posting a link to his own tumblr on reddit

03:04:33 Apocalyptic: <ThickAsThieves> they are confirming the insolvency // I feel like they are

03:04:34 ThickAsThieves: they really wanted that US-based dominant exchange

03:04:47 ThickAsThieves: that's the propblem Apoc

03:04:50 ThickAsThieves: it's all "feely"

03:04:54 Apocalyptic: yeah

03:05:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 183 @ 0.005495 = 1.0056 BTC [+] {2}

03:05:07 ThickAsThieves: wtf is wrong with companies these days

03:05:12 ThickAsThieves: be clear, christ

03:05:39 dub__: s/compnies/dude in moms basement/

03:05:41 greenspan_fan: well, clarity opens you up to legal liabilities

03:05:47 cazalla: whois gox.com does show karpeles though

03:05:49 greenspan_fan: for fraud/libel

03:06:00 copumpkin: cazalla: you can put anyone's info on a domain

03:06:02 ThickAsThieves: cazalla those whois arent verified

03:06:09 ThickAsThieves: look up therealaltcoin.org

03:06:12 greenspan_fan: but a three letter domain's expensive

03:06:29 cazalla: yeah that

03:06:32 greenspan_fan: it could just be fortuitous timing?

03:06:41 cazalla: i don't see someone using a premium 3 letter domain to push a scam

03:06:44 dexX7: https://www.google.de/#q=Income+Statement+Net+Sales+Cost+of+Goods+Sold+Gross+Profit+Selling%2C+General+and+Administrative+Expenses+1)+Operating+Income+212+3%2C015+20%2C000+55%2C850+Interest+Income+6+7+14+40+Foreign+Exchange+Gains+76+-+-+-+Non+Operating+Result+82+7+14+40+Ordinary+Income+294+3%2C022+20%2C014+55%2C890+Corporate+Taxes+8+1%2C022+6%2C164+16%2C890+Net+Income+286+2%2C000+13%2C850+39%2C000+1)+Breakdown

03:06:44 ozbot: Google

03:06:45 greenspan_fan: or maybe coinbase's latest pivot is into straight-up crime?

03:07:12 dexX7: a few words of the pdf results only the gox paper itself on google

03:07:22 MisterE: how low will it go today

03:07:27 MisterE: I almost bought at 550

03:07:35 MisterE: maybe today it tests 500

03:07:52 ThickAsThieves: it broke 500 already

03:07:53 greenspan_fan: Top post on HN tomorrow: How we used social media, adobe illustrator, and bitcoin in order to destroy a rival business

03:08:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.004869 = 0.1022 BTC [+] {2}

03:08:10 the20year: it was at 488 about 15m ago

03:09:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.12249 = 1.2249 BTC [-] {3}

03:09:28 greenspan_fan: from the unredacted link, I think some of the columns literally don't add up

03:09:32 greenspan_fan: if I'm reading it correctly

03:10:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.121 = 0.242 BTC [-]

03:10:41 cazalla: i hope it's true, great buying opp

03:10:54 Bugpowder: Well, I guess I don't really need to finish my cold wallet analysis.

03:11:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 294 @ 0.005495 = 1.6155 BTC [+] {2}

03:11:05 Apocalyptic: heh Bug

03:11:06 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/a/ZyBZ5

03:11:06 ozbot: Ryan Selkis is full of shit - Imgur

03:11:21 dexX7: "- New brand and services ready to be launched (Bitcoin Cafe, ..." lol

03:11:27 the20year: You guys all see that this guy runs btc-china? http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv318/mindc0ntr0l/BobbyLee.jpg

03:11:57 gx: gox will be back, better than ever

03:12:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.12087093 = 1.8131 BTC [-] {6}

03:12:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00549889 = 0.4949 BTC [+]

03:12:10 gx: people are gonna flock to their bitcoin cafe and deposit hundreds of thousands of coins

03:12:15 greenspan_fan: that's a pretty low bar, gx

03:12:19 cazalla: who in their right mind who use gox even if they fixed everything after all this

03:12:22 gx: </sarc

03:12:38 dexX7: wow goxcoins at 0.11

03:13:02 greenspan_fan: I wish I had an acct on bitcoin builder

03:13:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.120033 = 0.7202 BTC [-] {3}

03:13:10 greenspan_fan: that is too cheap given how likely this is a hoax

03:13:12 the20year: wonder if we could hit the 1mb limit?

03:13:54 gx: pretty elaborate hoax though

03:13:59 gx: but could be, yeah

03:14:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.11482776 = 0.689 BTC [-] {3}

03:14:08 the20year: bitcoinbuilder is at .14

03:15:07 Bugpowder: its not a hoax dude

03:15:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 71 @ 0.005495 = 0.3901 BTC [-]

03:15:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.12517994 = 0.2504 BTC [+]

03:15:29 nubbins`: Bugpowder, so why is this guy redacting these "real" PDFs himself?

03:15:39 ThickAsThieves: hey

03:15:44 ThickAsThieves: coinbase edited their post

03:15:48 nubbins`: haha

03:15:51 ThickAsThieves: to remove insolvency from it

03:16:00 ThickAsThieves: thanks to my tweet!

03:16:01 cazalla: that was quick

03:16:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 126 @ 0.00545 = 0.6867 BTC [-]

03:16:17 the20year: http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/

03:16:18 ozbot: Joint Statement Regarding the Insolvency of MtGox | Blockchain.info Team Blog

03:16:34 cazalla: guess they drafted it together

03:16:43 nubbins`: cazalla: that's what a joint statement is :)

03:17:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0054 = 0.216 BTC [-]

03:17:12 ThickAsThieves: i hope they showed this to their lawyers first...

03:17:32 cazalla: changing it after posting might suggest otherwise

03:17:38 ThickAsThieves: indeed

03:17:47 the20year: they redacted the 'insolvency' word

03:18:09 greenspan_fan: if you had access to a real pdf, why would you redact everything using illustrator?

03:18:15 cazalla: wonder how long until blockchain redact it

03:18:16 the20year: 476

03:18:35 Bugpowder: Well... Bitcoin-assets people called it first. Days ago.

03:18:42 ThickAsThieves: the redaction was likely done using a 3rd party PDF editor

03:18:54 ThickAsThieves: even adobe isnt this bad

03:19:05 greenspan_fan: Either way, it just weakens your case

03:19:25 greenspan_fan: and the numbers are purely speculative for the future and drawn from mt gox's reports for the past

03:19:50 gx: greenspan_fan they forgot to mention the 200,000BTC they're gonna make w/ their cafe though. gotta weigh that in.

03:20:17 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: it was probably redacted with OSX Preview

03:20:18 gx: you talking about the last page of the document where everything is blacked out?

03:20:25 nubbins`: if it was originally created with keynote

03:20:25 greenspan_fan: yeah

03:20:26 ThickAsThieves: someone start a gox ipo on cryptostocks, quick!

03:20:26 gx: is that viewable

03:20:35 greenspan_fan: yes, see imgur links

03:20:38 Bugpowder: ThickAsThieves: lol

03:20:38 nubbins`: gx: you can highlight the text and copy/paste

03:20:39 gx: ah derp

03:20:40 nubbins`: gx: http://imgur.com/a/ZyBZ5

03:20:58 greenspan_fan: but the funny thing is, it might be right anyways

03:21:23 ThickAsThieves: indeed

03:21:28 greenspan_fan: but if it is a hoax, and one of those 'startup ftw!' jackasses made it, then they might be sunk as well

03:21:30 ThickAsThieves: it's gox we're talking bout after all

03:21:41 gx: ah, so that's why it's a hoax, someone just c+p their annual report to the last page to make it seem legit?

03:21:43 gx: am i reading that right

03:21:50 greenspan_fan: which would be, I think, the funniest thing since pirate

03:22:03 gx: or, projections rather

03:22:05 ThickAsThieves: why redact it at all is the question

03:22:09 greenspan_fan: well they've got future projections etc.

03:22:12 ThickAsThieves: it's the least useful page

03:22:20 greenspan_fan: because some of the columns don't seem to add up, or I'm reading it wrong?

03:22:23 Bugpowder: Coinbase has too much money invested in it now by serious people for this to be bullshit

03:22:28 ThickAsThieves: i cant add them either

03:22:40 greenspan_fan: serious people put 41 million into color.com

03:22:41 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: to make it seem legit.

03:22:52 ThickAsThieves: coinbase edited their blog post bug

03:23:00 ThickAsThieves: to rmeove the insolvency accusation

03:23:05 ThickAsThieves: they are just being opportunists

03:23:11 greenspan_fan: you are way overestimating the intelligence of the silicon valley people

03:23:11 ThickAsThieves: they dont know wha the fuck is what

03:23:16 the20year: i find it interesting they're doing it jointly with compeditors

03:23:17 gx: ha

03:23:43 greenspan_fan: how did they all get together and become confident enough to risk getting sued in the space of a couple hours?

03:23:45 gx: it's members of the btc foundation

03:23:51 gx: which the gox guy just stepped down

03:23:53 Apocalyptic: mtgox.com just went out

03:23:56 ThickAsThieves: coinbase is worried theyll have less customers thats all

03:24:02 ThickAsThieves: they are thinking long term

03:24:11 ThickAsThieves: hastily, but longterm nonetheless

03:24:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 803 @ 0.00509856 = 4.0941 BTC [-] {9}

03:24:21 nubbins`: heh

03:24:31 nubbins`: mtgox.com is indeed gone

03:24:41 Duffer1: yep blank page for me

03:24:44 kakobrekla: wowz

03:24:48 ThickAsThieves: it's loading ... nothing

03:25:02 kakobrekla: this is going faster than i thought ?

03:25:14 greenspan_fan: it's loaded but there's nothing transmitted

03:25:16 ThickAsThieves: i'm gonna win my bitbet!

03:25:28 nubbins`: view-source:https://www.mtgox.com/

03:25:36 nubbins`: nothing at all

03:25:37 dub__: aaanditsgone.com

03:25:40 ThickAsThieves: how do you even do that ?

03:25:43 ThickAsThieves: have no source

03:25:46 ThickAsThieves: but still resolve

03:25:48 greenspan_fan: exactly

03:25:52 gx: send a 200 ok header

03:25:54 gx: thats it

03:25:54 nubbins`: index.html is an empty file

03:25:59 greenspan_fan: they've wiped the entire page

03:26:11 nubbins`: browser is smart enough to not choke

03:26:15 Apocalyptic: so nubbins`

03:26:24 Apocalyptic: you still think it's a hoax ?

03:26:40 nubbins`: Apocalyptic: i still think the pdf is fake, yes

03:26:46 nubbins`: but as i mentioned in -otc:

03:26:48 nubbins`: [23:53:10] <nubbins`> oh, don't get me wrong, gox is broke

03:26:48 nubbins`: [23:53:14] <nubbins`> everything is gone

03:26:48 ThickAsThieves: i'm on the fence

03:26:57 ThickAsThieves: ^

03:26:59 ThickAsThieves: yeha that too

03:27:13 Apocalyptic: as unreal as it may appear, I think the doc is legit

03:27:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00543499 = 0.2174 BTC [+] {3}

03:27:26 ThickAsThieves: karpeles is so fucked

03:27:35 ThickAsThieves: maybe the most fucked man alive

03:27:38 nubbins`: but why is it so poorly written, why did the guy who "discovered" the doc redact a page?

03:28:06 ThickAsThieves: nub how did you determine it was him that redacte dit

03:28:08 gx: mightve been written in haste as an initial draft

03:28:17 Apocalyptic: <nubbins`> but why is it so poorly written, // why is the all mtgox system so poorly written ?

03:28:18 gx: fired off to someone for approval and then leaked

03:28:40 gx: obviously they all know theyre steering a sinking ship

03:28:41 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: because the redactions (actually black highlights) have his name on them

03:28:44 nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: see http://imgur.com/a/ZyBZ5

03:29:04 nubbins`: open your pdf viewer, and enable highlights/notes

03:29:16 Duffer1: why is ryan selkis?

03:29:17 nubbins`: Apocalyptic: fair enough ;(

03:29:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 29 @ 0.00541999 = 0.1572 BTC [-] {3}

03:29:25 greenspan_fan: two-bit-idiot

03:29:25 Duffer1: just some blogger?

03:29:25 nubbins`: Duffer1: some guy who "leaked" this pdf.

03:29:27 nubbins`: a nobody.

03:29:33 Duffer1: interesting

03:29:35 greenspan_fan: he's some vc/blogger/bitcoin nobody

03:29:56 greenspan_fan: which is the resume of every scam artist in the space

03:30:00 ThickAsThieves: oh it appears diffe3rnt in acrobat pro

03:30:00 *: nubbins` nods

03:30:09 dexX7: did trading on gox stop?

03:30:17 kakobrekla: no, gox is stop.

03:30:18 nubbins`: dexX7, gox is gone

03:30:19 gx: http://www.meetup.com/Harvard-Bitcoin-Meetup/members/67850542/

03:30:19 ozbot: Ryan Selkis -

03:30:24 dexX7: api is still available

03:30:34 nubbins`: ah

03:30:35 dexX7: more or less.. http://data.mtgox.com/api/2/BTCUSD/money/ticker_fast

03:30:43 dexX7: http://data.mtgox.com/api/2/BTCUSD/money/depth/full

03:31:09 ThickAsThieves: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanselkis

03:31:09 gx: http://i.imgur.com/hM8Uuvn.png

03:31:10 ozbot: Ryan Selkis | LinkedIn

03:31:14 gx: last 2 hrs of data missing for us

03:31:54 nubbins`: honestly, i think this selkis guy completely fabricated the pdf and associated "story", for whatever reason, but then it grew legs, people started panicking and issuing statements, so gox (who knew it was only a matter of time anyway) decided now was as good a time as any to give it up

03:32:04 ThickAsThieves: Founder

03:32:04 ThickAsThieves: Inscrypto

03:32:04 ThickAsThieves: December 2013 – Present (3 months)Boston, San Francisco

03:32:04 ThickAsThieves: Bitcoin's decentralized, privately funded version of the FDIC. We reduce volatility for consumers while helping hedge funds invest in bitcoin.

03:32:16 nubbins`: imagine

03:32:19 gx: seems like selkis is in competition w/ gox in one way or another.

03:32:28 nubbins`: an asshole who wanted cheap coin for his business was the straw that broke gox's back

03:32:40 nubbins`: honestly wouldn't have guessed

03:32:55 Apocalyptic: <nubbins`> an asshole who wanted cheap coin for his business was the straw that broke gox's back // are you serious ?

03:32:55 ThickAsThieves: Founder Good-Benefits - Creator of the first ever "401k for charity" • Worked at @Summit Partners, @Former Analyst at JPMorgan Investment Bank • Studied at @BC

03:33:06 nubbins`: Apocalyptic: am i ever serious? :D

03:33:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00088369 = 5.7882 BTC [+] {2}

03:33:46 nubbins`: man, CS is still building. shoulda made a pizza

03:34:39 ThickAsThieves: https://plus.google.com/106808782106272134400/about

03:36:07 ThickAsThieves: http://www.youtube.com/user/selkisr

03:36:07 ozbot: Ryan Selkis - YouTube

03:36:16 kakobrekla: www.businessinsider.com.au/falcon-global-capital-offers-to-buy-the-fbis-bitcoins-2014-2

03:36:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00520006 = 0.156 BTC [-] {3}

03:37:27 ThickAsThieves: hell, this channel could muster a better offer than them

03:37:56 nubbins`: let's all chip in on 14% below

03:38:13 nubbins`: that guy has an asshole face

03:38:22 dexX7: haha yea

03:38:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 41 @ 0.0609 = 2.4969 BTC [+]

03:40:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 267 @ 0.00492521 = 1.315 BTC [-] {7}

03:40:34 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 251 @ 0.0021 = 0.5271 BTC [+]

03:41:21 greenspan_fan: I wonder if it would be better just to buy mt gox?

03:41:25 KRS-One: http://www.reddit.com/user/sarahcoinbit

03:41:25 ozbot: overview for SarahCoinBit

03:42:07 ThickAsThieves: lol

03:42:21 ThickAsThieves: sarahcoinbit magically starts posting an hour ago?

03:42:23 greenspan_fan: or visit DPR in prison? ... if you wanted to buy questionable coins in bulk

03:43:17 Apocalyptic: KRS-One, can you get a registration date for the account ?

03:43:18 ThickAsThieves: go for it

03:43:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1071 @ 0.00478179 = 5.1213 BTC [-] {8}

03:43:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.12337774 = 0.3701 BTC [-] {2}

03:43:40 dexX7: redditor for 28 days

03:43:43 gx: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yuouz/mtgox_situation_crisis_draft/cfnz306

03:43:43 ozbot: historian1111 comments on MtGOX Situation Crisis Draft

03:43:46 jayk: lights out for mtgox?

03:44:02 gx: interesting point, they intentionally tried to tank the price so theyd be liable for less

03:44:07 Duffer1: hopefully jayk

03:44:08 gx: and froze at a low point

03:44:23 nubbins`: interesting times

03:44:25 greenspan_fan: they only ever really had a genius for fraud

03:44:48 nubbins`: "i remember where i was when i found out mtgox was gone... sitting on my ass in front of the computer"

03:45:02 greenspan_fan: interestingly enough, that's also where I was on 9/11

03:45:12 nubbins`: heh, i was smoking a joint outside the library at uni

03:45:16 the20year: I was watching regis and kelly on 9/11

03:45:18 Apocalyptic: dexX7, good point

03:45:32 nubbins`: was locked in an exam room for the actual event, didn't find out until hours afterwards

03:45:40 ThickAsThieves: would be more fun if we were all in a real room sharing a joint

03:45:46 *: nubbins` nods

03:46:10 nubbins`: brb, next best thing

03:46:13 ThickAsThieves: maybe we should do an american b-a "conference"

03:46:13 greenspan_fan: and was your mark 0.8181818 repeating?

03:46:36 nubbins`: greenspan_fan: honestly can't recall ;(

03:46:58 nubbins`: fun fact, .99 repeating == 1

03:47:18 greenspan_fan: I was going to pretend to disagree

03:47:18 jayk: they were allowing trading up until today

03:47:22 greenspan_fan: but I just don't have the heart

03:47:25 nubbins`: heh

03:47:35 nubbins`: aww, i was going to prove it several different ways ;(

03:47:41 nubbins`: now it's all left as an exercise to the reader

03:47:46 greenspan_fan: 1/3 = 0.3333...

03:47:57 nubbins`: that's one way :D

03:48:10 greenspan_fan: what are some other ways?

03:48:21 ThickAsThieves: so if it is true, then that means the lost coins are already priced in

03:48:30 ThickAsThieves: and only downward movement is pani

03:48:31 ThickAsThieves: c

03:49:00 nubbins`: greenspan_fan: let x=0.99...

03:49:05 ThickAsThieves: how the hell do you leak coins for years though

03:49:15 greenspan_fan: that would make sense, because otherwise people who traded via bitcoin builder would be furious

03:49:30 nubbins`: 10x = 9.99.., ergo 10x-x = 9.99... - .99..., ergo 9x = 9, ergo x = 1

03:49:32 ThickAsThieves: they will be

03:49:38 ThickAsThieves: gox coins = 0 USD

03:49:51 greenspan_fan: that's a good one

03:49:56 nubbins`: nod, my fave

03:50:06 nubbins`: you can do it with infinite series too

03:50:09 nubbins`: can't recall the details

03:50:13 greenspan_fan: not if they're planning to make people whole tho

03:50:21 ThickAsThieves: lol

03:50:27 ThickAsThieves: gox cant make anything whole

03:50:32 ThickAsThieves: theyre done

03:50:39 ThickAsThieves: no plan or rebranding can save them

03:50:55 greenspan_fan: at a 80% discount?

03:51:03 nubbins`: i really regret not selling at $23

03:51:04 the20year: it's like everything else , once you screw the pooch it can't be undone

03:51:05 nubbins`: LEL JK :D

03:51:25 greenspan_fan: assuming they have any money at all (which they might, if they were front running the market all week)

03:51:49 greenspan_fan: they'll be able to cover at least some of the deposits

03:52:15 ThickAsThieves: we'll see i guess

03:52:19 ThickAsThieves: i'm doubtful

03:52:28 greenspan_fan: how many black lotuses would you need to sell to cover 700 000 btc?

03:52:37 nubbins`: "at least some" might as well be "none"

03:52:37 ThickAsThieves: even if someting is sorted it'll take year(s)

03:52:51 nubbins`: greenspan_fan: depends, are you a dealer? :D

03:52:51 Duffer1: is that a MTG ref greenspan fan?

03:52:57 greenspan_fan: yes

03:53:06 greenspan_fan: I think karpeles should cut off a pinky, at least

03:53:08 ThickAsThieves: are they casacius lotuses?

03:53:12 nubbins`: heh

03:53:13 greenspan_fan: it's the japanese corporate way

03:53:18 nubbins`: TBH i thought he was talking about sports cars

03:53:35 ThickAsThieves: it's the most expensive magic card

03:53:44 nubbins`: http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f94/142461d1266687227-f-s-starlight-black-lotus-elise-25-000-img_0126.jpg

03:53:52 Diablo-D3: top 5 stories on hn, with a sixth further down are mtgox

03:53:56 ThickAsThieves: nice car

03:54:03 nubbins`: nod, sexy curves

03:54:12 nubbins`: met a girl who raced a lotus once

03:54:23 greenspan_fan: because HN was one of the first places to hear about bitcoin, and almost none of the people got in on it

03:54:32 the20year: hn?

03:54:49 nubbins`: haxor gnus

03:55:13 the20year: I *got in* on bitcoin in the first 3 months, didn't do me much good by not sticking with it :D

03:56:05 greenspan_fan: really? did you not have a good graphics card or something?

03:56:25 ThickAsThieves: http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ kraken just happy for the free advertising

03:56:26 ozbot: Joint Statement Regarding MtGox | Blockchain.info Team Blog

03:56:27 the20year: Wallet got hacked

03:56:31 greenspan_fan: shitty

03:56:33 ThickAsThieves: people are like krakwho?

03:56:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 169 @ 0.005 = 0.845 BTC [+] {3}

03:56:57 greenspan_fan: wasn't that a scam fund from that guy who ripped off mircea?

03:57:00 the20year: Went to a bunch of faucets after downloading the client, the ones that were giving 1 to 0.5btc out per day per time you hit the faucet

03:57:08 greenspan_fan: patrick hartnett?

03:57:27 greenspan_fan: oh man, that's rough

03:57:30 greenspan_fan: how'd you get hacked?

03:57:32 the20year: Never did anything with teh wallet, showed up at office one day and the client was open, all coins gone

03:57:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 370 @ 0.00086094 = 0.3185 BTC [+] {2}

03:57:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1192 @ 0.00498438 = 5.9414 BTC [-] {6}

03:57:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00088402 = 25.1504 BTC [+]

03:58:15 the20year: there was some java/ad exploit that took alot of coins from people running XP, and I was one of them, right around the time bitcoin hit like $20 for the first time due to all the silk road press, maybe that was 2011?

03:58:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 363 @ 0.0008648 = 0.3139 BTC [+]

03:59:13 ThickAsThieves: well it hit $20 from silk road in 2013 too

03:59:14 nubbins`: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/24/us-vatican-bank-idUSBREA1N0TA20140224

03:59:14 ozbot: Pope revolutionizes Vatican by opening finances to scrutiny

03:59:39 greenspan_fan: honestly, I'd be buying right around now anyways

03:59:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1229 @ 0.00086544 = 1.0636 BTC [+] {4}

04:00:02 the20year: I would be too , but I have very little personal cash available for btc, but also sadly have a decent bit of BTC from investors to be converted to fiat to buy property

04:00:44 jurov: i'd try to postpone that

04:00:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 225 @ 0.00086797 = 0.1953 BTC [+] {2}

04:01:15 the20year: Have been

04:01:22 ThickAsThieves: if you use bitcoins your raised you are cheating shareholders

04:01:23 the20year: But we are locked into contracts on two properties

04:01:27 ThickAsThieves: MUST HODL!

04:01:44 greenspan_fan: seriously, I would not be surprised if it's higher than ever in a week

04:01:44 jurov: or you should have insured using mpoe options

04:01:57 greenspan_fan: given how any press seems to push the price up

04:02:15 jurov: oh i forgot mpoe is down :(

04:02:21 the20year: That would have been the better choice, one of the bigger issues has been waiting on havelock to send me the coins, they aren't deposited on a wallet on our side

04:02:29 the20year: Granted I did cash out part of them at $700

04:02:35 ThickAsThieves: hmm i'm just realizing that last i talked to my brother he was using gox as a wallet

04:02:43 ThickAsThieves: i did tell him to get off like a year ago

04:02:53 ThickAsThieves: well last summer

04:02:53 the20year: I have quite a few investors that have lost out quite a bit of coin at gox

04:02:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.005 = 0.15 BTC [+]

04:04:03 greenspan_fan: don't worry, I'm sure gox.com is going to be a huge hit

04:04:22 ThickAsThieves: yeah, along with bitfunder.com

04:04:22 jurov: and bitcoin cafe

04:04:48 the20year: I think in between bitfuner and gox, just the inevstors I've talked to have lost 150+btc

04:04:52 ThickAsThieves: maybe they rebrand too, under.com

04:04:58 greenspan_fan: ahahaha

04:05:19 Diablo-D3: top 6 stories on hn are mtgox, 7th rising

04:05:53 greenspan_fan: are there any bitcoin death pools? because I don't think karpeles will have been priced properly yet

04:05:56 dexX7: hn?

04:06:08 dexX7: nvm

04:06:12 greenspan_fan: haxxor newz

04:06:47 greenspan_fan: I am thinking either angry investor puts a hit out w/ the yakuza, or he commits hari kiri. Place your bets.

04:06:57 the20year: You guys see the video of our glorious next purchase of 2 houses on one lot?

04:06:57 nubbins`: hmm

04:07:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.12212177 BTC [-]

04:07:13 nubbins`: just had one of those "went downstairs to find a lighter, came across a vial of oil" moments

04:07:31 *: nubbins` rubs hands together

04:07:33 greenspan_fan: what?

04:07:39 Vexual: hes speaking literally

04:07:52 nubbins`: vexual knows

04:07:54 Bones_: wow, thought it was just some nasty rumor earlier. I come back and poof

04:07:56 ThickAsThieves: oil is the lube

04:08:02 ThickAsThieves: rubbing hands and cock together

04:08:03 nubbins`: comedials

04:08:07 nubbins`: comedians, even

04:08:08 greenspan_fan: what's the lighter for, then?

04:08:16 ThickAsThieves: the audience

04:08:16 nubbins`: greenspan_fan: to remove the oil from the vial

04:08:29 greenspan_fan: is your lube water-based?

04:08:33 nubbins`: perverts

04:08:41 nubbins`: PK oil

04:08:44 *: ThickAsThieves raises lit lighter into air "encore!"

04:08:58 jurov: nubbins` gonna make a molotow

04:09:18 jurov: and throw it to gox office

04:09:20 nubbins`: Vexual, have a listen to the album a friend and i recorded: https://atelierbleu.bandcamp.com/album/manicouagan

04:09:20 greenspan_fan: I made a molotov cocktail once.

04:09:24 greenspan_fan: it tasted terrible.

04:09:27 nubbins`: turn up yr bass

04:09:30 jurov: REVOLUTION

04:09:31 Vexual: i listened to some earlier

04:09:34 nubbins`: ah

04:09:40 the20year: pk oil?

04:09:44 Vexual: pretty good, i might need to be in the mood for it

04:09:52 *: nubbins` nods

04:09:57 nubbins`: it's music for late nights

04:10:01 Vexual: hard to think while listening :)

04:10:06 nubbins`: heh, yes

04:10:15 the20year: heh

04:10:16 ThickAsThieves: music to have on while youre passed out

04:10:19 nubbins`: that too

04:10:25 nubbins`: music to wake up startled to

04:10:44 nubbins`: "music"

04:10:47 ThickAsThieves: music for trees in the woods

04:10:48 nubbins`: i'm being generous

04:10:59 the20year: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9427554/Scioto-UnionSmall.mpg

04:11:10 the20year: Bask in the glory of a 385sqft cottage

04:11:20 ThickAsThieves: lol

04:11:30 greenspan_fan: is that enough room to bask?

04:11:45 ThickAsThieves: is it convertible?

04:11:56 the20year: yes

04:12:11 the20year: Granted they're throwing in a 2300sf duplex along with everything

04:13:07 Bugpowder: http://goxbalance.com

04:13:26 dexX7: Bugpowder: where's that from?

04:13:40 Bugpowder: submissions?

04:13:43 ThickAsThieves: lol

04:13:49 ThickAsThieves: how cna this possibly be useful

04:14:05 greenspan_fan: Idk, I am having a great time w/ my array of proxies

04:14:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.00514814 = 0.278 BTC [+] {2}

04:14:20 bloctoc: It will help government determine the size of the bailout required

04:14:37 asciilifeform: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-24/another-successful-banker-found-dead

04:14:39 nubbins`: this just in, obama bails out gox

04:14:39 ozbot: Another "Successful Banker" Found Dead | Zero Hedge

04:14:48 ThickAsThieves: at least gox has the courtesy to die under $150

04:14:54 greenspan_fan: TO THE MOON!

04:14:57 Apocalyptic: http://www.canyouwithdrawfrommtgox.com/

04:14:58 ozbot: Can you withdraw from Mt.Gox?

04:15:04 greenspan_fan: (no)

04:15:39 ThickAsThieves: someone should start a blog of pornstar deaths

04:15:51 ThickAsThieves: maybe there's a connection

04:15:59 greenspan_fan: man I am going to feel really bad if gox exec actually off themselves

04:16:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 82 @ 0.00518412 = 0.4251 BTC [+] {2}

04:16:45 greenspan_fan: I am picturing it now: suicide note partially obscured by condensation from the frappuchino placed on top

04:17:07 Bones_: I'm thinking more like yakuza as you said

04:17:11 Bones_: Very public

04:17:13 ThickAsThieves: ratpoisonichino

04:17:46 ThickAsThieves: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yuyx4/hey_charlie_shrem_was_this_the_good_news_on_the/

04:17:47 ozbot: Hey Charlie Shrem, was this the good news on the horizon you were talking about? : Bitcoin

04:17:52 ThickAsThieves: lol

04:18:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.000869 = 0.1738 BTC [+]

04:18:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00518999 = 0.3892 BTC [+]

04:18:22 greenspan_fan: or satashi nakamoto, the real brains behind mt. gox, swoops in to bail everyone out with his million bitcoin stash

04:18:45 ThickAsThieves: http://www.domaininvesting.com/andy-booth-sells-gox-com/

04:18:46 ozbot: Andy Booth Sells Gox.com | DomainInvesting.com

04:19:05 ThickAsThieves: On February 21, 2014, Andy Booth was listed as the domain name registrant, according to a historical Whois record.

04:19:22 cazalla: would this resolve as yes if they rebrand http://bitbet.us/bet/751/mtgox-out-of-business-in-2014/

04:19:36 ThickAsThieves: My brother met domain broker Joe Politzer in Singapore who got excited about gox.com and then I said he could try to sell it if he wanted. He called Karpeles and Gox to find out if they wanted it and immediately they expressed pretty strong interest. I’ve asked Mark if it’s ok to publish details (no response as yet).”

04:20:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 74 @ 0.00518999 = 0.3841 BTC [+] {2}

04:20:14 greenspan_fan: don't think mark's going to be responding to anybody

04:20:52 greenspan_fan: the question remains, though, who got the 700 000 btc?

04:20:57 ThickAsThieves: this is who did the deal http://dn.biz/

04:21:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 22 @ 0.0055 = 0.121 BTC

04:21:16 ThickAsThieves: according to the article*

04:21:39 the20year: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yuozv/mtgox_just_proceeded_a_bunch_of_jpy_withdrawal/

04:21:39 ozbot: Mt.Gox just proceeded a bunch of JPY withdrawal today : Bitcoin

04:21:46 jurov: hi mircea_popescu, all according to plan?

04:21:58 mircea_popescu: jurov what specifically ?

04:22:12 Bugpowder: lol

04:22:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00515 = 1.03 BTC [-]

04:22:17 jurov: gox is done

04:22:17 greenspan_fan: have you heard about mt gox?

04:22:22 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, you missed some drama

04:22:25 mircea_popescu: i just woke up!

04:22:31 dexX7: haha

04:22:32 ThickAsThieves: wake up faster!

04:22:35 Apocalyptic: it's a shitstorm out there

04:22:35 mircea_popescu: ><

04:22:42 greenspan_fan: this should be like christmas for you

04:22:44 mircea_popescu: so i should wake up for the derpage ?

04:22:49 ThickAsThieves: www.gox.com

04:22:56 asciilifeform: let the man sleep, folks. he sleeps, what, once a week?

04:22:57 mircea_popescu: what is this, derpworld ?

04:22:59 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:23:13 greenspan_fan: a really suspicious slide deck about mt gox going under surfaced

04:23:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 68 @ 0.0051335 = 0.3491 BTC [-] {2}

04:23:19 mircea_popescu: derp.

04:23:21 ThickAsThieves: he doesnt need sleep, just to avoid sunlight

04:23:30 greenspan_fan: seems like it was legit; they've essentially gone dark

04:23:30 mircea_popescu: listen, all this is a lot less exciting if YOU KNOW IT WILL HAPPEM

04:23:36 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves now i have to kill you.

04:23:44 ThickAsThieves: turn me

04:23:55 mircea_popescu: lol

04:23:58 ThickAsThieves: :)

04:24:05 mircea_popescu: i just tried to log into twitter as mircea popsicu

04:24:10 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, I would like your opinion on https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhl8b6k1rya78xc/209050732-MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft.pdf

04:24:13 asciilifeform: 'for what have i prepared this beautiful golden stake?'

04:24:34 Vexual: bugpowders running gox add on matlab

04:24:41 mircea_popescu: lmao

04:25:23 greenspan_fan: so did you hear about this in advance?

04:25:30 kakobrekla: o, now we have gif http://i.imgur.com/T2RudcB.gif

04:25:41 ThickAsThieves: nice!

04:25:43 greenspan_fan: it seemed like the btc foundation peopel knew

04:25:54 mircea_popescu: lol good gif

04:26:06 asciilifeform: goes well with that other bouncyball gif

04:26:10 asciilifeform: the one with the dildo

04:26:11 greenspan_fan: given that they all prepared joint statements

04:26:14 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan basically, mtgox demise was decided april 2013, at the secret conference nobody went to.

04:26:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 75 @ 0.0055 = 0.4125 BTC

04:26:26 mod6: lol @ gif

04:26:47 mircea_popescu: and the fact that the scammer troop has coordinated ballet on the topic is really just a sign of how fucking stupid they are.

04:27:06 greenspan_fan: they had to revise their statements after release

04:27:12 mircea_popescu: point in case.

04:27:20 greenspan_fan: presumably on the advice of lawyers

04:27:28 mircea_popescu: kinda the only reason i like vessenes. he's so fucking dumb.

04:27:32 ThickAsThieves: on the advice of me!

04:27:40 greenspan_fan: wait, you're not a lawyer?

04:27:40 the20year: did the buildabetterburgers take down gox?

04:27:43 Vexual: flee immediately!

04:27:45 mircea_popescu: thickaslawyers ?

04:27:52 ThickAsThieves: lawyersasthieves

04:28:02 mircea_popescu: sas is good...

04:28:05 greenspan_fan: hey man, some of my best friends are thieves

04:28:31 dexX7: https://twitter.com/magicalgox/status/438161500537380864 wtf

04:28:32 ozbot: Twitter / MagicalGox: Send me 1BTC and I will resolve ...

04:28:43 Bugpowder: dexX7: fake accy

04:29:00 Vexual: Bugpowder, is matlab saying when yet?

04:29:54 ThickAsThieves: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57619465-93/bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox-offline-amid-insolvency-charges/

04:29:55 ozbot: Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox offline amid 'insolvency' charges | Internet & Media - CNET News

04:30:30 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder kinda what happens when you delete your posts, you know ? people start the takeover.

04:30:32 Bugpowder: Vexual: Still doing experiments

04:30:46 Bugpowder: haven't tracked it yet

04:31:02 ThickAsThieves: pdf claims 700k btc lost over "years"

04:31:12 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it is roughly true.

04:31:21 mircea_popescu: not that that's an excuse for anything.

04:31:39 greenspan_fan: what is interesting, though, is that you might be able to follow the block chain from the earlier transactions

04:32:21 greenspan_fan: I'm betting julian assange did it, to fund his jihad against america

04:32:29 mircea_popescu: lol

04:32:38 mircea_popescu: it's their nest egg.

04:32:55 greenspan_fan: bitcoin becomes the national currency of ecuador and he flees britain as a citizen

04:32:59 ThickAsThieves: maybe he'll have a co-press relase with snowden

04:33:08 asciilifeform: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/iranians-hacked-navy-network-for-4-months-not-a-surprise/

04:33:08 ozbot: Iranians hacked Navy network for four months? Not a surprise. | Ars Technica

04:33:11 greenspan_fan: no man, snowden's satoshi

04:33:14 asciilifeform: tldr: run more winblows, usg

04:33:16 greenspan_fan: he's got his own bitcoins

04:33:21 ThickAsThieves: snowtoshi

04:33:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10975 BTC [+]

04:33:39 dexX7: there is also this post from wsj earlier: http://archive.is/NLLpV - "According to documents seen by The Wall Street Journal, Tibanne Co., which operates Mt. Gox, is expected to generate a small profit in the fiscal year ending in March from exchange transaction fees. The forecast, however, assumes bitcoin prices well above current levels."

04:34:33 greenspan_fan: https://www.tibanne.com/article/7/we-re-hiring-

04:34:33 ozbot: Tibanne Co. Ltd.

04:34:46 ThickAsThieves: lol

04:34:52 nubbins`: hiring what, liquidators?

04:34:55 ThickAsThieves: CSS3 needed!

04:35:02 mircea_popescu: forum experts.

04:35:02 greenspan_fan: Ability to comment properly work is important

04:35:30 greenspan_fan: so when's the mpex ipo for gox.com?

04:35:49 mircea_popescu: heh.

04:36:05 nubbins`: still say that pdf is bogus

04:36:07 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2165830363/Peter-Portrait.jpg << seriously, look at this guy. doesn't he look like the 110 iq barrier is a bridge too far ?

04:36:19 ThickAsThieves: an IPO to buy the domain after scammers are done with it?

04:36:33 Vexual: nub, i think it'd be hard to miss that much btc over time

04:36:35 mircea_popescu: wasn't i explaining before how goxshit isn't worth money ?

04:36:43 asciilifeform: unrelated, but relevant to 'interesting times': http://bloodandtreasure.typepad.com/blood_treasure/2004/09/further_chronic.html

04:36:48 mircea_popescu: Vexual we knew they were in the red.

04:36:53 greenspan_fan: it was a joke

04:36:57 Vexual: and they knew?

04:37:01 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/mtgox-and-ancient-bitcoin-history-the-straight-dope/

04:37:02 ozbot: MtGox and ancient Bitcoin history - the straight dope. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

04:37:04 mircea_popescu: time to re-read this.

04:37:06 greenspan_fan: and that guy looks like he's experienced a couple "non-standard deviations"

04:37:12 mircea_popescu: yes vex. they were in the red up until late 2012.

04:37:42 mircea_popescu: i suppose that article may read differently in light of events.

04:37:43 nubbins`: "Successive emperors became the captors of various factions of eunuchs."

04:37:50 nubbins`: the type of shit that'd put House of Cards to shame

04:38:37 Apocalyptic: <greenspan_fan> and that guy looks like he's experienced a couple "non-standard deviations" // heh

04:38:58 mircea_popescu: nubbins` what is house of cards anyway ?

04:38:58 greenspan_fan: did you see the latest season? I'd say it was a contender, even sans eunuchs

04:39:08 mircea_popescu: coupla titters on twitter keep derping about it.

04:39:10 greenspan_fan: also, I think it's supposed to be GNU/eunuchs

04:39:18 mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha

04:39:52 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: netflix-only television show based on a bbc television show based on a novel. the netflix version centers around u.s. political intrigue, specifically kevin spacey's machinations towards the presidency

04:40:24 greenspan_fan: with significant inspiration from caro's biography of lyndon johnson

04:40:25 nubbins`: worth watching, we swallowed season 2 over about 4 days

04:40:51 mircea_popescu: oh

04:40:54 nubbins`: lots of intrigue, subterfuge, etc

04:40:55 greenspan_fan: anyone else read that biography?

04:40:55 ThickAsThieves: http://imgur.com/xFp7iVc

04:40:56 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

04:41:08 greenspan_fan: hahaha

04:41:25 mircea_popescu: ajhahaha

04:41:33 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you got a twittar ?

04:41:41 nubbins`: greenspan_fan: never read the bio, HoC s2 was great tho

04:41:51 nubbins`: they've been renewed for a third, hey?

04:42:06 ThickAsThieves: i have only the altcoin twatter

04:42:15 greenspan_fan: nubbins I am angry that I'll have to wait for a year, though

04:42:20 mircea_popescu: what was it again ?

04:42:33 greenspan_fan: you must be the only altcoin creator without 10,000 sockpuppets

04:42:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 18 @ 0.16230094 = 2.9214 BTC [-]

04:42:35 ThickAsThieves: @therealaltcoin

04:43:25 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/438172294050234368

04:43:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00088332 = 18.5497 BTC [-] {2}

04:44:02 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/CWzXmDV

04:44:03 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

04:44:04 nubbins`: daww ;(

04:44:33 ThickAsThieves: lol

04:44:35 greenspan_fan: isn't that like the clown from those stephen king novels?

04:44:36 nubbins`: ^ this is the proper way to deal with this issue, not a fucking cloudflare snapshot

04:44:44 mircea_popescu: lol

04:44:51 nubbins`: what's a snapshot of an exchange website going to do for me?

04:44:53 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you actually got that ? or was it a lol ?

04:45:00 Vexual: i wonder if magicdunce will shoot thru? he must have thousands of high res passports

04:45:01 nubbins`: at least make me feel bad

04:45:08 nubbins`: mircea_popescu it's real!

04:45:16 nubbins`: i thought the twitter fail whale was neat

04:45:21 nubbins`: this is next-level

04:45:21 ThickAsThieves: "Interestingly the folks at secondmarket called me today to say that there will be a one week halt on all new BIT purchases and their trading department is no longer taking any new positions."

04:45:26 ThickAsThieves: from a friend of mine

04:45:30 ThickAsThieves: (not trolling)

04:45:36 mircea_popescu: <Vexual> i wonder if magicdunce will shoot thru? he must have thousands of high res passports <<< EPIC

04:45:53 ThickAsThieves: i wonder if 2ndmarket used gox

04:45:56 ThickAsThieves: biglolz!

04:45:58 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves they did yes.

04:46:01 mircea_popescu: because they know better.

04:46:03 ThickAsThieves: hahahahaha

04:46:04 ThickAsThieves: ahahah

04:46:14 mircea_popescu: you know how like a certain fucktarded ceo is making his own stock exchgange ? cause he knows better ?

04:46:25 mircea_popescu: you know how ycombinator isn't hiring BingoBoingo to tell them what's what ?

04:46:36 mircea_popescu: you know how the twinkleloss brothers don't feel like they need to be here ?

04:46:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1000 @ 0.0005 = 0.5 BTC [-] {2}

04:46:46 mircea_popescu: that's exactly how second market thinks it knows better than me

04:46:57 mircea_popescu: the common word describing these is, of course, stupidity.

04:47:14 greenspan_fan: you could make your website prettier, at least

04:47:15 Bones_: If everyone was in here, then we wouldn't make as much money?

04:47:24 greenspan_fan: and while you're at it, make your blog free

04:47:28 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan or i could add spikes on my cock, to leave better marks on assholes.

04:47:30 mircea_popescu: either way.

04:48:04 ThickAsThieves: you could lose a cock that way

04:48:07 greenspan_fan: but gox was able to siphon off 700 000 btc because they had javascript and css basically

04:48:07 ThickAsThieves: be careful

04:48:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 546 @ 0.00445591 = 2.4329 BTC [-] {20}

04:49:03 ThickAsThieves: @Mircea_Popescu @therealaltcoin Lol even google image can tell its peter

04:49:05 ThickAsThieves: winnar

04:49:24 ThickAsThieves: pay google 1000 ATC

04:50:11 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan you have to take into consideration 80+% of that was when btc was < $1

04:50:31 Vexual: still a lot of milkshakes

04:50:32 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves if google tweets @me i will sure.

04:50:36 Bugpowder: OK... let's get back to racking these cold wallets

04:50:49 ThickAsThieves: k

04:50:57 ThickAsThieves: we'll read your findings really hard

04:51:08 Vexual: why .info?

04:51:14 nubbins`: ah, bc.info has edited their statement as well

04:51:22 nubbins`: no more mention of insolvency

04:51:38 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu but surely you have some pretty sick programmers working for you? idk much about web frontends, so idk if it's bad security

04:51:39 benkay: much drama and lulz today?

04:51:39 Apocalyptic: amateur communication

04:51:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 46 @ 0.00518998 = 0.2387 BTC [+]

04:51:47 Apocalyptic: if you knew benkay ..

04:52:11 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan what do you mean ?

04:52:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00518998 = 0.2284 BTC [+]

04:53:32 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu presumably if you/your employees could implement a sophisticated exchange (with all the countermeasures in order to ensure continuous operation) you could at least add some css to mpex.co

04:53:46 mircea_popescu: provided i wanted to.

04:54:23 mircea_popescu: nubbins` da fuck is bc.info

04:54:35 ThickAsThieves: cockchain

04:54:35 nubbins`: i abbreviated blockchain.info

04:54:46 nubbins`: kind of forgot that it makes a link that people can click ;(

04:55:08 mircea_popescu: a.

04:55:38 ThickAsThieves: lol http://cockchain.info/

04:55:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 765 @ 0.00522621 = 3.9981 BTC [+] {3}

04:56:12 Vexual: i guess bp dont want prtd matleb on a machine that has blockchain

04:56:26 greenspan_fan: at this point idk whether it's positive (as a mark of differentiation) or whether you're losing business because it seems like it's pre-1999

04:56:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 134 @ 0.00525893 = 0.7047 BTC [+] {3}

04:56:54 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan what business am i losing ?

04:57:09 Vexual: sub 140iq sub 50btc

04:57:32 Apocalyptic: .d

04:57:32 ozbot: 3,129,573,174.52229 | Next Diff in 598 blocks | Estimated Change: 20.5183% in 3d 7h 2m 4s

04:57:39 mircea_popescu: leading question : how much business is nyse losing by not having a drive-thru presence in most shopping malls ?

04:57:50 Vexual: 12?

04:57:58 mircea_popescu: leading question #2 : what could the concept of "Accredited investor" mean in bitcoin, and how would one go about meaningfully implementing it ?

04:58:02 Apocalyptic: nice analogy mircea

04:58:16 greenspan_fan: I actually bought some options for ibm at wal-mart earlier today, so times are changing

04:58:32 mircea_popescu: pankkake pls to 1000 atc to 1CgNLdNUaXFawURSBuX4xBHv53GhGZ3XuC ty

04:58:53 jurov: greenspan_fan: clearly there's market gap for you to exploit

04:58:54 mircea_popescu: greenspan_ the times are only changing in the sense the us is going under.

04:59:01 mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as eternal truths.

04:59:28 mircea_popescu: but yes, as the j man says, nothing keeps you from doing brokerage for any market segment you identify and think you can serve.

04:59:42 greenspan_fan: putting it another way, given your thoughts re: art, you could consider patronizing some pre-autistic teenager with a color palette and a dream

04:59:47 Bones_: greenspan_fan - if anything his website exudes "dude who knows what the fuck he is doing". Not to suck your dick or anything mp but anyway that's how I saw the website

04:59:59 ThickAsThieves: to #2, measured by your bitcoin holdings, no?

05:00:08 benkay: it's pretty easy

05:00:15 benkay: an accredited bitcoin investor accumulates bitcoins

05:00:26 benkay: they are accredited by virtue of having and accumulating bitcoins

05:00:29 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves inasmuch as one intends to measure sophistication, bitcoin holdings alone would show on the historical record an insufficient measure.

05:00:40 fract4l: mircea_popescu: did you predict GOX demise??

05:00:43 mircea_popescu: why ty Bones_

05:00:49 mircea_popescu: fract4l no. i announced it.

05:00:49 benkay: that's why the accumulation's important, mircea_popescu

05:00:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 404 @ 0.0053995 = 2.1814 BTC [-] {2}

05:01:21 copumpkin: joe shmoe mined 10000 coins on his old laptop in 2009 as a joke

05:01:24 copumpkin: he's accredited

05:01:28 copumpkin: cause he has a lot of money

05:01:33 mircea_popescu: provided he didn't lose the laptop

05:01:34 copumpkin: seems a little awkward :)

05:01:37 mircea_popescu: (which most did)

05:01:40 benkay: copumpkin you missed the part about accumulation.

05:01:51 greenspan_fan: Bones_ only because he's influential enough that people ought to be aware

05:02:06 mircea_popescu: i just got an email from a friend, it goes "hey can i have like 10-20 bux worth of bitcoin cause im testing this service and i lost all the btc i mined on my laptop back in the day"

05:02:11 mircea_popescu: tru story. inbox of this morn.

05:02:41 copumpkin: mircea_popescu: hey, can you send me 10 coins? thanks

05:02:44 ThickAsThieves: satoshi still emails you?

05:02:45 mircea_popescu: lol

05:02:48 mircea_popescu: lmao

05:02:51 nubbins`: heh!

05:02:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2879 @ 0.00539996 = 15.5465 BTC [+]

05:03:03 mircea_popescu: copumpkin no more bentleys for you!

05:03:08 assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656180/plain/)

05:03:08 jurov: !b 7

05:03:09 copumpkin: mircea_popescu: :(

05:03:22 copumpkin: I should sell my MPOE

05:03:24 nubbins`: too slow ;(

05:03:26 copumpkin: but I can't bring myself to

05:03:31 *: copumpkin holds onto his MPOE

05:03:40 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan but srsly, it's legitimate. if you think you can help some people do shit, help them. nothing wrong with that.

05:03:52 mircea_popescu: a large chunk of the way i designed mpex is so as to empower people to grow their own stuff

05:04:03 mircea_popescu: rather than try and corner the entire market. cornered markets don't grow.

05:04:17 Bones_: see https://coinbr.com/

05:04:19 jurov: he insist to help you to proper css, you know

05:04:35 mircea_popescu: if anything ima take the website down eventually.

05:04:42 mircea_popescu: just... whatever, it's there.

05:04:54 fract4l: interesting that MP, the #1 hated guy on the forums, turns out to have more integrity then anyone thought......

05:05:04 fract4l: he also has spot-on predictions

05:05:06 mircea_popescu: fract4l isn't that how things normally work out ?

05:05:18 copumpkin: I trust mircea_popescu to be honest

05:05:22 copumpkin: he's just a little odd

05:05:27 copumpkin: but he thinks the same about me

05:05:30 mircea_popescu: you can say asshole, i dun mind.

05:05:37 fract4l: mircea_popescu: haha... i suppose so. maybe your picture on the camel made people not take you seriously?

05:05:38 copumpkin: nah, you're not 100% asshole

05:05:46 mircea_popescu: fract4l when am i on a camel ?!

05:05:51 Bones_: lol

05:05:54 jurov: lool

05:05:54 nubbins`: ^ HEH

05:05:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 442 @ 0.00539998 = 2.3868 BTC [+] {2}

05:06:03 assbot: Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656188/plain/)

05:06:03 jurov: !b 10

05:06:03 mircea_popescu: copumpkin not even women are 100% women you know ?

05:06:04 ninjashogun: hi guys

05:06:06 nubbins`: it was a horse, ya racist!

05:06:07 Apocalyptic: fract4l, how dare you, that's a great picture

05:06:09 mircea_popescu: hi ninjashogun

05:06:14 copumpkin: mircea_popescu: didn't think so!

05:06:16 ThickAsThieves: sup ninja

05:06:25 ninjashogun: hi mircea_popescu hi ThickAsThieves

05:06:44 ninjashogun: Not much ThickAsThieves . I'm raising $50K for a new job web site based on applied graph theory (not to relationships/connections - something else)

05:06:50 ThickAsThieves: <ThickAsThieves> OneFixt did you at least diversify into other exchanges already?

05:06:50 ThickAsThieves: <@OneFixt> ThickAsThieves: a tiny bit

05:06:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3316 @ 0.00539996 = 17.9063 BTC [-] {3}

05:06:59 fract4l: Apocalyptic: hey, personally i think the camel picture is hilarious....

05:07:03 ThickAsThieves: i trolled the guy enough you'd think he'd have learned...

05:07:13 fract4l: ThickAsThieves: did you lose any coin on gox?

05:07:16 Bugpowder: OneFixt lost his coins?!? Oh man.

05:07:17 ThickAsThieves: lol

05:07:25 Bugpowder: The BITCOIN ORACLE

05:07:32 Bugpowder: Couldn't see the shut down coming

05:07:35 Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, he claimed to have almost everything in gox

05:07:36 fract4l: well, losing my coins on gox is going to seriously motivate me to work harder to make more BTC.

05:07:38 ThickAsThieves: i used goz like twice in feb

05:07:43 ThickAsThieves: 2013

05:07:43 OneFixt: Bugpowder: i have enough, Bugpowder, don't worry

05:07:44 ninjashogun: WhatsApp just sold for $16Billion, and there is a huge bubble in the valley . technical jobs are very scarce. we have 1) something much better than search, based on graph theory (without sayin gmore) and 2) a reason people will upload their profiles for this reason :) We can get a lot of technical profiles just from launch / announcements (on hacker news etc)

05:07:53 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder we have an oracle too ?

05:08:06 fract4l: i'm *SHOCKED* that bitcoinbuilder is still above 0.00000001

05:08:06 Duffer1: ninjashogun tell us more about how to invest

05:08:08 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun unless you manage to lay zuck you're not in this game.

05:08:09 Bugpowder: https://twitter.com/BitcoinOracle

05:08:10 ozbot: Bitcoin-Analysis (BitcoinOracle) on Twitter

05:08:17 Bones_: ninjashogun, will this site help me get laid

05:08:24 asciilifeform: 'technical jobs are very scarce' << wait what

05:08:27 asciilifeform: what planet.

05:08:30 Bugpowder: fract4l: I'd buy at 0.01

05:08:30 greenspan_fan: better than search based on graph theory?

05:08:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he means technical people.

05:08:36 ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I meant talent! Sorry.

05:08:38 ninjashogun: yes, sorry

05:08:38 ninjashogun: :)

05:08:42 greenspan_fan: are you on crack? all search uses graph theory

05:08:50 benkay: now now greenspan_fan

05:08:54 benkay: settle down

05:08:57 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan in the sense al qm uses matrixes, sure.

05:09:03 ninjashogun: No, keyword search doesn't use graph theory. It uses set theory. (In the form of database design)

05:09:09 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla check it out, your shitty chan is about to break 200

05:09:25 greenspan_fan: sorry, that was kinda rude

05:09:42 greenspan_fan: but, for instance, facebook's whole deal is modelling via social graph

05:09:45 ninjashogun: database queries are applied set theory. Ours is different, it's based on graph theory and is a very novel application that results in much better matches ,and ALSO a good reason for people to upload their profiles.

05:09:46 kakobrekla: its you ppl that make it shitty!

05:09:47 ThickAsThieves: all design uses grid theory, coincidence?

05:09:48 copumpkin: ninjashogun: pagerank is a graph algorithm :)

05:09:56 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=485913 << anyone got any advice ?

05:09:57 mircea_popescu: lolz

05:09:58 ozbot: How to recover your money as a small time investor with funds in mtgox

05:10:13 ninjashogun: copumpkin, yes, you're right it is :)

05:10:37 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun basically everyone's point is that regardless how you personally look at it, mathematic reality is accessible to everyone on their own terms.

05:10:42 greenspan_fan: also, idk how they teach qm in romania, but you can get by OK without knowing matrix mechanics

05:10:46 nubbins`: ;;seen mike_c

05:10:46 gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <mike_c> :) hopefully i can run it on an actual machine and get better performance

05:10:56 ninjashogun: So just to put this in context I have just connected this week with the other mathetician I am creating this site with, so it is a very fresh startup opportunity. To whoever asked about the means of investing, standard terms as you would suggest based on hearing abou thte opportunity etc.

05:10:59 benkay: hoo booo whaaat qm without matrix operations?

05:11:02 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan yes, but that doesn't mean any part of qm is inaccessible to matrix.

05:11:14 dexX7: this is somehow sad.. i wonder for how many bitcoin was a pain instead of pleasure

05:11:21 mircea_popescu: dexX7 hopefully for most.

05:11:22 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I have no idea why you wrote thta to me

05:11:23 mircea_popescu: you know, like sex.

05:11:45 ninjashogun: "mathematic reality is accessible to everyone on their own terms"

05:11:53 nubbins`: ^ it is

05:11:55 greenspan_fan: but I always conceptualized pagerank for instance as being essentially graph theoretic in nature

05:12:00 ninjashogun: Yes, it is.

05:12:04 ninjashogun: Absolutely, greenspan_fan

05:12:06 mircea_popescu: so good for you :)

05:12:10 ninjashogun: Ours is a bit different.

05:12:14 copumpkin: a big-ass matrix is a graph

05:12:14 Duffer1: what's your business plan?

05:12:16 ninjashogun: But in some ways very similar to pagerank

05:12:20 copumpkin: well, a square matrix is

05:12:30 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 it's a start-up, what business plan. they maybe have an idea is all.

05:12:43 mircea_popescu: copumpkin i thought it didn't have to be square.

05:12:55 mircea_popescu: you can generalise the graph space neh ?

05:12:59 nubbins`: ^

05:13:07 nubbins`: pick yr number of dimensions

05:13:08 copumpkin: mircea_popescu: well, there's an obvious interpretation of a square matrix as a graph

05:13:12 ninjashogun: Duffer1 - hi, Duffer1 . The business plan is to get profiles for free, based on the novel application, which will cause people to want to upload their profiles to us, and use them to fill vacancies scraped from other sites. (Meaning for starters the other sites get the money from it.)

05:13:16 mircea_popescu: copumpkin a that sure.

05:13:17 nubbins`: 5 if you want, all the rules still work

05:13:25 nubbins`: you just won't be able to make a physical model of it anymore

05:13:32 copumpkin: then matrix multiplication "walks" the graph

05:13:34 copumpkin: it's kind of fun

05:13:39 greenspan_fan: ninjashogun the scraping part could be a thing unto itself

05:13:41 ninjashogun: Duffer1, then when we have a set of profiles and a critical mass, we can get listings ourselves directly, and get the money from them. However, there has to be content initially.

05:13:54 copumpkin: you can then multiply graphs with unusual semirings to get more interesting behavior

05:13:57 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun specifically, what is the problem you are solving ?

05:14:01 ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, I don't think so. I am sure every job site would be open to us sending people to their ads :)

05:14:02 nubbins`: it comforts me that math still works with more than three spatial dimensions

05:14:13 copumpkin: nubbins`: it breaks at 7, sorry

05:14:15 ThickAsThieves: your business plan has no business in it though

05:14:23 nubbins`: D: why didn't anyone tell me

05:14:47 mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's okay, Mr Hig Uyse proved that any set of cats can be packed in less than 7 dimensions.

05:14:50 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, the specific problem we're solving is "connecting jobs with job-seekers". I.e. finding the best qualified candidate for an employer, or the place to work for a job-seeker. BETTER than a text search where they both just blurt out what they need (exactly) on the part of the employer or everything they have done (exactly) on the part of the job seeker.

05:14:52 greenspan_fan: you don't need business, just data. Cash out and pass the buck to facebook or whomever

05:14:56 nubbins`: phew

05:15:00 ninjashogun: which is how keyword search (status quo) works.

05:15:07 nubbins`: bad news for the imgur giraffe tho

05:15:16 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun but how do you account for flexibility in either side ?

05:15:25 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu not a fan of string theory?

05:15:29 asciilifeform: ;;google man woman dog matching

05:15:29 gribble: NP-completemess | Equivalence: http://equivalence.co.uk/archives/63; Man, Woman, Dog, seeking stable relationship. - Math StackExchange: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/531586/man-woman-dog-seeking-stable-relationship; Dog and Dog Chinese Love Compatibility - Astrology.com: http://www.astrology.com/chinese-love-compatibility-dog-dog/2-d-chmt-dog_dog

05:15:30 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, exactly.

05:15:32 ThickAsThieves: no one wants to fill out another resume

05:15:35 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, that is the problem we have solved.

05:15:37 ninjashogun: Yes.

05:15:37 mircea_popescu: (some people don't want to do a specific job, but whatever, some people don't want something specific done, but whatever IS done) ?

05:15:54 ninjashogun: Yes.

05:15:55 ninjashogun: Exactly.

05:16:00 ninjashogun: This is the issue that we solve.

05:16:01 antephialtic: isn't that just the stable marriage problem?

05:16:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.48000142 = 3.36 BTC [+] {2}

05:16:12 nubbins`: some people don't want the best and brightest, they just want people who can do an okay job

05:16:13 ninjashogun: No other site does this - other sites just are glorified text searches or databse searches.

05:16:21 mircea_popescu: this is true.

05:16:26 nubbins`: unfortunately all these people are in btc ;(

05:16:28 mircea_popescu: this much is true, job market is a scandal.

05:16:32 ninjashogun: yes

05:16:37 ninjashogun: and we're set to shake it up

05:16:41 nubbins`: heh

05:16:43 mircea_popescu: well you're set to try.

05:16:46 mircea_popescu: let's not confuse the two.

05:17:02 copumpkin: I saw my profile(s) on gild.com the other day

05:17:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 58 @ 0.00539997 = 0.3132 BTC [+]

05:17:09 greenspan_fan: also, consider how many jobs are filled by referrals

05:17:09 ThickAsThieves: he's graph to shake it up

05:17:13 copumpkin: it was interesting, because they thought there were two of me

05:17:14 nubbins`: a job search where mediocre employees can find already-defeated employers

05:17:24 copumpkin: and one of them had high expertise, low desirability, and the other had low expertise high desirability

05:17:37 nubbins`: as cheeky as that sounds, you're actually onto something there

05:17:51 nubbins`: tier 2 job search for people who know they're not up to snuff

05:17:57 copumpkin: finding good hires is actually pretty hard

05:18:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.473 = 4.257 BTC [-]

05:18:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1571 @ 0.00463921 = 7.2882 BTC [-] {24}

05:18:11 ninjashogun: So I am looking for a roughly $50K investment (nominal, could be less). Is anyone here in a position to conssider that, has a portfolio and has been involved iwth other startups in the past? An interest in mathematics (specifically graph theory) helps immensely.

05:18:11 copumpkin: so if ninjashogun can get it up and running, he'll have a lot of willing customers

05:18:16 greenspan_fan: my idea for a start-up involves me applying to thousands of places for remote work, then farming out the resulting offers to india

05:18:18 ninjashogun: yes

05:18:18 copumpkin: but it's a tough market :)

05:18:27 copumpkin: lots of other people want in too

05:18:29 copumpkin: like those gild folks

05:18:32 greenspan_fan: since the netflix for prostitutes was immediately rejected by y combinator

05:18:34 copumpkin: and several others I've seen

05:18:35 ninjashogun: the moment I announce on hackernews (hwere I have a profile) at the right time of day, I will have some sign-ups

05:18:48 antephialtic: can you specify the specific graph theory problem you are trying to solve? (other than simple bipartate matching)

05:18:50 ninjashogun: Yes, but we have an innovation they don't.

05:18:52 copumpkin: I want good signups though

05:18:53 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/438181249799438336 << for everyone's lulz.

05:18:54 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: Specifically, @CharlieShrem ...

05:18:56 copumpkin: and the good people aren't looking

05:19:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 284 @ 0.00427064 = 1.2129 BTC [-] {9}

05:19:12 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun people here are worth well over a billion all together.

05:19:14 ninjashogun: antephialtic - No, I don't want to specify it here. It's not about solving an unsolved problem, but rather applying existing theory in a novel way.

05:19:26 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i'll bet you're not getting a dime so far.

05:19:33 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, ok... that doesn't really help me though :) I'm not here raising Series A.

05:19:40 greenspan_fan: yeah, does it have CSS? that's what I want to know

05:20:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1130 @ 0.00415 = 4.6895 BTC [-] {2}

05:20:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17382 @ 0.00088296 = 15.3476 BTC [-]

05:20:13 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, it doesn't matter if they're worth $10M altogether or $10B. As long as at least one person here has a portfolio and is interested in startups

05:20:33 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun they're also inclined to play, something vc's aren't normally. ATC got started because people were bored and so far cost about 50k or thereabouts.

05:20:39 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

05:20:40 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 446.96, Best ask: 448.9, Bid-ask spread: 1.94000, Last trade: 448.9, 24 hour volume: 66688.95383623, 24 hour low: 442.12, 24 hour high: 579.34, 24 hour vwap: 529.068851738

05:20:43 mircea_popescu: but you're nowhere near the zone.

05:20:47 ninjashogun: antephialitc - the specific graph theory problem is related to shortest-path

05:21:01 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, interesting

05:21:01 mircea_popescu: "Ice-breaking ships help keep Chesapeake Bay waters safe" <<< check out all the global warming.

05:21:11 copumpkin: ninjashogun: here's a cute way to compute shortest paths: http://r6.ca/blog/20110808T035622Z.html

05:21:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00420001 = 0.42 BTC [+] {4}

05:21:13 greenspan_fan: my new startup idea: an automated, high-quality "human" activity generator for nascent startups looking for funding

05:21:23 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan i'm down.

05:21:28 Duffer1: lol

05:21:38 mircea_popescu: if you manage to insert it into the next round of ycombinator a la sokal, you get a bonus.

05:21:40 ThickAsThieves: i like my search engine idea better

05:21:44 davout_: greenspan_fan: interesting

05:21:52 Duffer1: ninjashogun do you have any product at all atm to show?

05:21:55 mircea_popescu: davout you two can work together.

05:22:15 ThickAsThieves: customizable filter templates, fully weightable factors, totally transparent seo

05:22:17 ninjashogun: Duffer1 - no, I just met and spoke with my cofounder today :)

05:22:25 davout: no, i'm a create-your-own-exchange consultant

05:22:30 asciilifeform: folks who think they have an efficient solution to an np-complete problem should not settle for small change.

05:22:45 asciilifeform: like paltry $1B

05:22:45 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, above where you say "ATC got started because people were bored" - what is ATC pls?

05:22:48 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun for the other part of your question, i would say everyone speaking here knows a lot of math.

05:22:51 copumpkin: asciilifeform: which NP complete problem?

05:22:54 mircea_popescu: review the logs for various lulz.

05:22:56 greenspan_fan: it doesn't have to be a solution, just an approximation

05:23:03 mircea_popescu: (do you know how to review the logs ?)

05:23:27 greenspan_fan: I get really sick of people defending btc-dev not doing important things because they're "probably" np-complete

05:23:27 ThickAsThieves: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/

05:23:40 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan you don't say.

05:23:44 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

05:23:48 mircea_popescu: IM SICKER OF IT THAN YOU FOO!!1111

05:24:01 ninjashogun: Here is the other person's profile that he responded with: "I am a full stack web/desktop/mobile developer. Currently my weapon of choice is C# for the back end stuff, and JavaScript for the front end. I am also versed in Objective-C (I have three apps on the app store). Daily my bread and butter is developing web apps. Lately I've been developing cross-platform mobile games. I have a degree in Math, so I know just a bit of graph theory... this

05:24:01 ninjashogun: project sounds interesting. I'm open and interested in hearing more about this project."

05:24:10 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/headbash-d.gif << i'm this sick of it.

05:24:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0045 = 0.9 BTC [+] {3}

05:24:17 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu ranking sickness of it is (probably) np-complete

05:24:20 ninjashogun: And for a bit of information, the team is distributed - he is in Kentucky and I am from Boston

05:24:28 ninjashogun: Duffer1 - is a distributed team a problem for you?

05:24:51 Duffer1: not even a little bit

05:24:55 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun listen, you're really misbehaving here, albeit perhaps unintentionally. the correct approach is to lurk and read the logs for about half a year. then you'll be in a position to meaningfully engage th dragons here.

05:25:08 mircea_popescu: i get that this doesn't help you any in the sense of getting you to do what you want to do

05:25:15 mircea_popescu: and while that is unfortunate, it's nevertheless what it is.

05:25:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 307 @ 0.0045 = 1.3815 BTC [+] {6}

05:25:28 ninjashogun: Duffer1, great.

05:25:34 greenspan_fan: alternatively, have some code people can look at

05:25:37 Duffer1: ^and it is genuinely to your benefit to take that advice

05:25:37 ninjashogun: Duffer1 I can PM you the specific graph application (in gerneral terms)

05:25:41 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/la-firma/ << perhaps see that as a primer.

05:25:42 ozbot: La firma pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

05:25:46 Duffer1: nono that's alright

05:25:54 ninjashogun: all right. though it's interesting

05:25:57 mircea_popescu: mutatis mutandis

05:26:11 ninjashogun: again, this is the idea that caused this startup to be created this week. (I did consult with advisors the last week or two about it.)

05:26:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 118 @ 0.00450001 = 0.531 BTC [+]

05:26:33 Duffer1: keep this chan open when you can though, hang around

05:26:33 mircea_popescu: no, see, unless you can name an advisor and i can go

05:26:37 mircea_popescu: ;;rated advisor

05:26:38 gribble: You have not yet rated user advisor

05:26:47 mircea_popescu: and get a positive result, you haven't in fact consulted any advisors.

05:27:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0045001 = 0.45 BTC [+] {2}

05:28:35 ninjashogun: Duffer1, thanks for the feedback

05:28:39 greenspan_fan: it isn't meant to be discouraging, just that you have to do some ground work, have something to show off (like a demo, or some sort of model, at least), before anyone can make an informed investment decision

05:28:48 Duffer1: ^.^

05:28:52 ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, well, obviously

05:29:21 ninjashogun: So what I was tihnking is that this isn't a real 'forum' (in that most IRC channels are basically just trolls etc) and that I would just escalate to another form of contact (skype etc) and be in touch while it gets rolled out

05:29:30 ninjashogun: the other thing is we don't REALLY have any capitalization requirements.

05:29:34 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2014/a-paper-diagnostic-for-cancer-0224.html i imagine you saw that already ?

05:29:35 ninjashogun: it's all software, we have jobs at the moment

05:30:00 mircea_popescu: no, this is the real forum.

05:30:07 mircea_popescu: when the sec wanted to talk to me i forced them to come here.

05:30:12 ninjashogun: so out of a $50K investment, probably a few hundred would go to server costs and $47K would sit in the bank for six months. while we build it (Though I know that is not what investors like to hear)

05:30:22 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, you're kidding right?

05:30:27 mircea_popescu: i'm dead serious.

05:30:30 mircea_popescu: this is the forum.

05:30:34 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, um

05:30:43 greenspan_fan: personally, I think it would be cool to invest in a start up, but I'm kinda averse to giving cash to pseudonyms in irc who aren't incorporated, have no references, no demos

05:31:15 greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu when did the SEC come knocking?

05:31:33 mircea_popescu: at the rate we're going i'll prolly publish the bundle in a coupla weeks.

05:31:42 ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, so first of all obviously you would not give a cash to a pseduonmn :) We can get in touch if appropriate. Could you tell me a bit about yourself - do you have any investments in startups to date? (or been involved iwth one)? Do you like matheatics or theoretical computer science?

05:32:02 mircea_popescu: and you can see then.

05:32:10 Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Nope, it sounds like a good idea, but I don't think it will really work. the reason the pregnancy ones work is the hormone level goes up >1000x. MMPs are not that unregulated, maybe 2-3x by volume? Need to read the paper but I imagine the ROC curve is pretty ugly.

05:32:29 Bugpowder: 'upregulated'

05:32:33 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder kinda what im doing here, trying to cheat

05:33:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.0008839 = 26.4286 BTC [+] {2}

05:33:25 mircea_popescu: my head goes "yes, but maybe it goes up locally ?" but how would i know.

05:34:22 greenspan_fan: it's the new thing

05:34:31 greenspan_fan: metablomics. big data, and lots of urine

05:35:48 mircea_popescu: myeah.

05:36:03 benkay: "cool to invest in a startup"

05:36:06 benkay: fuck everything

05:36:09 mircea_popescu: so he's new, what.

05:36:10 benkay: this is what is wrong with the planet

05:36:13 mircea_popescu: let the man have fun.

05:36:25 mircea_popescu: not like he's doing it on borrowed moneyz.

05:36:32 benkay: unlike the vcs, i suppose

05:36:36 mircea_popescu: so you see.

05:37:24 Bugpowder: Not to mention, early diagnosis of some cancers has no effect on mortality, but does decrease QOL

05:37:33 Bugpowder: and increase care costs dramatically

05:38:04 mircea_popescu: sad but true

05:38:05 greenspan_fan: benkay I've just never had anyone ask me for money and it turn out well, so I am holding out hope for ninjashogun

05:38:10 mircea_popescu: then again this seemed geared for africa

05:38:20 mircea_popescu: i bet the situation re qol / cost is different there.

05:38:25 ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, I haven't asked you for money :)

05:38:35 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder for public benefit, mind enumerating those types ?

05:39:26 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan i take it your wife doesn't ask, just takes ? :D

05:39:52 joecool: mircea_popescu: congrats on mpex outliving yet another exchange

05:40:08 greenspan_fan: haha

05:40:11 mircea_popescu: joecool well ty, tho it's kinda chearting. mpex never did fiat.

05:40:15 mircea_popescu: shitty business to be in.

05:40:21 joecool: seems so

05:41:19 benkay: in other news, i'm talking about lisp at the Portland Python night this month. if there are any Portlanders listening, you should come and NOT TALK ABOUT BITCOIN FFS.

05:41:21 benkay: http://www.meetup.com/pdxpython/events/146120792/

05:41:22 ozbot: Monthly Presentation Night -

05:41:36 mircea_popescu: everyone go, talk of atc instead.

05:42:03 benkay: bloody pedants

05:42:07 mircea_popescu: http://www.debka.com/article/23704/Russian-units-transferred-from-securing-the-Sochi-games-to-the-Ukraine-border

05:42:08 ozbot: Russian units transferred from securing the Sochi games to the Ukraine border

05:42:13 mircea_popescu: sheet's getting warm there.

05:42:18 benkay: wowee

05:42:35 mircea_popescu: what i hear is they moved something like 10k armored vehicles so far today.

05:44:11 copumpkin: benkay: you a PL person?

05:44:22 davout: oh nice, i didn't the dip

05:44:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 52 @ 0.00509969 = 0.2652 BTC [-] {2}

05:44:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.0008853 = 27.5328 BTC [+] {5}

05:44:38 davout: see*

05:45:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.1115081 = 0.5575 BTC [-] {3}

05:45:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7161 @ 0.00088296 = 6.3229 BTC [-]

05:45:42 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

05:45:44 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 460.0, Best ask: 463.46, Bid-ask spread: 3.46000, Last trade: 463.46, 24 hour volume: 70747.68743697, 24 hour low: 436.36, 24 hour high: 578.5, 24 hour vwap: 522.632639086

05:45:53 mircea_popescu: derp.

05:46:27 antephialtic: heh. someone should make an MPEX style exchange for usd/btc, all security based on pgp keys

05:46:36 davout: oh, mtgox is down

05:46:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.11150005 = 0.223 BTC [-] {2}

05:46:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.47206 = 2.3603 BTC [-] {3}

05:46:49 joecool: davout: you seem surprised

05:46:54 antephialtic: speaking of which, its a bit ridiculous that GPG still doesn't support ECDSA keys

05:47:01 davout: antephialtic: it does

05:47:04 joecool: antephialtic: blame debian

05:47:11 mircea_popescu: antephialtic localbitcoins is kinda-that i thought

05:47:28 mircea_popescu: ecdsa sux anyway.

05:47:28 davout: not really

05:47:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00434673 = 0.2173 BTC [-] {9}

05:47:41 davout: (the localbitcoins thing)

05:47:43 joecool: mircea_popescu: depends on the curve chosen

05:47:57 mircea_popescu: joecool im suspicious as al lfuck of the entire thing.

05:48:02 mircea_popescu: reminds me of dsa.

05:48:11 davout: antephialtic: you can already have the same feature if you trade x.eur on mpex

05:48:14 antephialtic: wait it does? I'm running osx with gpg from homebrew and it doesn't have ecdsa as an option

05:48:26 davout: antephialtic: i think it's gpg2 that does

05:48:38 joecool: i'm using 4096-bit RSA for the forseeable future, but ecdsa seems attractive if i can write a javacard implementation to work on my yubikey neo

05:48:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4607 @ 0.00088296 = 4.0678 BTC [-]

05:48:43 joecool: until then, openpgp smartcard for me

05:48:54 mircea_popescu: joecool how would you identify the classes of curves they have popped ?

05:48:59 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: I agree, DSA/ECDSA is a kludge. Schnorr signatures are much better

05:49:00 benkay: copumpkin: pl?

05:49:06 copumpkin: programming language

05:49:07 benkay: copumpkin: programming languages?

05:49:11 benkay: notrly

05:49:11 mircea_popescu: yes he is.

05:49:13 copumpkin: ah

05:49:15 benkay: there is only lisp.

05:49:17 mircea_popescu: stop scamming him!

05:49:17 copumpkin: :)

05:49:19 antephialtic: davout: thanks for the tip, going to try to set that up

05:49:19 mircea_popescu: lmao

05:49:39 benkay: i'm not even a computer science person

05:49:41 Namworld: What the hell is going on? I leave for a few hours and the whole Bitcoin world goes to ashes?

05:49:50 benkay: it's not Bitcoin, it's just Gox.

05:49:52 joecool: mircea_popescu: again i don't use them either, the lack of support though isn't from waryness, it's from the number of old gnupg clients in the wild

05:50:21 Namworld: For the sake of speculators dropping out/news/etc, damage is done.

05:50:30 Namworld: It's only gox, the rest will recover

05:50:39 Namworld: But for now everything is on fire, so to speak.

05:51:26 davout: Namworld: global warming hits bitcoin

05:51:43 mircea_popescu: antephialtic i'd rather see Cramer-Shoup myself.

05:51:50 mircea_popescu: i still dunno why they've never been seriously implemented.

05:52:04 Namworld: Global warming? NEEEEEIIIIIILLLLL

05:52:11 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/CharlieShrem/status/438189256268611584 << check out shrem.

05:52:11 ozbot: Twitter / CharlieShrem: . @Mircea_Popescu We both had ...

05:52:32 Namworld: Sorry, sorry. My cousin keeps quoting that line from DBZ abridged.

05:53:18 mircea_popescu: Namworld is she hot ?

05:53:28 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I checked out mpex exchange

05:53:29 benkay: copumpkin: u has pm

05:53:30 Namworld: Guy cousin

05:53:38 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, did you write it in Perl?

05:53:50 Namworld: I had money on gox for convenience, I must admit.

05:53:57 mircea_popescu: i didn't write it at all, and tech details haven't really been released.

05:54:05 Namworld: Withdrew it at a 10% cut as soon as issues hit.

05:54:11 mircea_popescu: Namworld no convenience for you! come back, 1 year!

05:54:25 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I guess you just wrote the beautiful front-end right :)

05:54:37 mircea_popescu: o hey. didja help all the people buying mtgox debt learn a lesson ? lol

05:54:44 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun no, i just tell people what to do.

05:54:52 mircea_popescu: and what they did wrong.

05:54:53 lnovy: mircea_popescu: that sun picture send my box whole 1GB into swap :D

05:55:03 mircea_popescu: and then if they don't listen sometimes they live long enough to apologize.

05:55:10 mircea_popescu: like homeboy shrem a few lines up

05:55:24 mircea_popescu: lnovy it's not that huge is it ?!

05:55:51 lnovy: mircea_popescu: 4096x4096... but I guess FF is just crap at those...

05:55:56 mircea_popescu: srsly.

05:56:03 mircea_popescu: what do you do if you get like, a real monitor one day ?

05:56:46 lnovy: I have 1920x1080 + 1280x1024... but only a 4 gigs of ram...

05:56:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10975 BTC [+]

05:57:11 mircea_popescu: benkay fwiw, i heard copumpkin once used a lambda function to turn a iphone into an ipad

05:57:17 ninjashogun: lnovy - if it's any consolation, they just came out with a 128 GB micro sd card.

05:57:19 copumpkin: lol

05:58:05 benkay: i once heard copumpkin use a closure to turn an Mac][ into a Genera

05:58:08 lnovy: i'd swap to that :)

05:58:10 benkay: it was audible.

05:58:14 mircea_popescu: lmao

05:58:33 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656343/plain/)

05:58:33 benkay: !b 4

05:59:05 lnovy: ok, I don't get it :)

05:59:30 mircea_popescu: don't worry, nobody does.

05:59:31 mircea_popescu: it's lisp.

05:59:42 ninjashogun: www.spritzinc.com - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7295094

05:59:51 lnovy: curring is for fools

05:59:56 ninjashogun: sorry I meant to quote "Spritz ? read 500 words per minute without any training"

05:59:58 ninjashogun: it's an interesting little app

06:00:10 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun if you just dump the link ozbot will read the page title.

06:00:20 Bugpowder: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/business/apparent-theft-at-mt-gox-shakes-bitcoin-world.html?smid=tw-share&_r=3

06:00:22 ozbot: Log In - The New York Times

06:00:25 ninjashogun: lol

06:00:29 ninjashogun: that worked :)

06:00:34 mircea_popescu: the new york times is so well adapted to the web.

06:00:40 Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: breast cancer, prostate cancer

06:00:47 ninjashogun: ozbot should pretend to be the google bot - then it would get the right titles

06:00:48 mircea_popescu: whoa.

06:01:10 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder how the fuck does that work man. on my list breast cancer is one where early discovery has the greatest impact. in there with skin cancer.

06:01:17 mircea_popescu: what have i been reading the wrong books ?

06:01:47 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun i think it just looks for the <title> element in html

06:02:07 ninjashogun: ho okay

06:02:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 626 @ 0.00050099 = 0.3136 BTC [+] {3}

06:04:02 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, when you said above that this channel was worth "over $1b" I didn't takei t seriously as if it has like 500 regulars then just a couple of people worth $50M - or a single Internet billionaire who drops in sometimes - would account for that

06:05:28 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun well it was seriously.

06:05:56 Bugpowder: In other news. http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/gselevator-tattletale-exposed-he-was-never-in-the-goldman-elevator/?hp

06:06:05 mircea_popescu: hahahaah

06:06:10 mircea_popescu: did you tweet that ?

06:06:11 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, your own net worth is quite up there from your exchange site? (With all its glorious stylesheets)?

06:06:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 271 @ 0.00086048 = 0.2332 BTC [-] {3}

06:07:04 Bugpowder: argh can't transfer bitcoin on work network, even when VPN'ed to elsewhere

06:07:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 85 @ 0.00509997 = 0.4335 BTC [+] {5}

06:08:36 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-02-2014#523542 im dead, what.

06:11:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.472 = 0.944 BTC [-]

06:11:42 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder incidentally, you know sm is in hot water over it ?

06:11:59 mircea_popescu: extent of the damage not quite known yet.

06:12:03 ninjashogun: :)

06:12:21 Bugpowder: SM?

06:12:34 mircea_popescu: second market.

06:12:41 Bugpowder: oh yeah

06:12:43 Bugpowder: duh

06:12:46 mircea_popescu: myeah.

06:13:01 mircea_popescu: course they probably get a free pass from investors

06:13:04 mircea_popescu: at least this time.

06:13:05 ninjashogun: guys I've received some suggestions to "lurk" and "read logs" here, which I wouldn't really have time to do. It was nice meeting you all though and I may be back as the project progresses. Overall I don't think I will be spending a ton of time building WoT, advisors, etc - as I have real-world references for the moment that I would expect anyone to consutl.

06:13:08 antephialtic: mircea_popescu: what is the source that all winklevosses money was in gox

06:13:19 mircea_popescu: ninjashogun an' that's fine.

06:13:28 antephialtic: ninjashogun: *humblebrag exits*

06:13:41 nubbins`: A Goldman spokesman, after being told that @GSElevator had been unmasked, said in a statement, “We are pleased to report that the official ban on talking in elevators will be lifted effective immediately.”

06:13:41 nubbins`: heh

06:13:45 mircea_popescu: antephialtic source ? what is this source thing you speak of.

06:14:00 mircea_popescu: nubbins` wtf you know, ban on talking on elevators.

06:14:05 nubbins`: i lel'd

06:14:09 mircea_popescu: how about banning fucktards from taking the elevator with you

06:14:15 mircea_popescu: eleWoT!

06:14:21 nubbins`: i think it was a bit tongue in cheek

06:14:29 Vexual: noone talks to me in elevators

06:14:37 ninjashogun: ah no humblebrag. It's certainly nice to meet you guys. later.

06:14:43 mircea_popescu: ;;google love in an elevator aerosmith

06:14:44 gribble: Aerosmith - Love In An Elevator - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Yrhv33Zb8; Love in an Elevator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_in_an_Elevator; AEROSMITH LYRICS - Love In An Elevator - A-Z Lyrics: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/aerosmith/loveinanelevator.html

06:14:48 nubbins`: i face backwards if i'm the first person to get in

06:14:53 nubbins`: occasionally other people do it too

06:15:06 antephialtic: glad to see dealbook is focusing on hard hitting journalism

06:15:12 mircea_popescu: i got news for you : those people are gay and looking.

06:15:18 Bugpowder: If only Lawsky had rolled out the bit license earlier

06:15:25 mircea_popescu: lawl.

06:15:29 nubbins`: not quite as tongue in cheek as this: http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/22/c2/70/00/rings.si.jpg

06:15:36 mircea_popescu: antephialtic actually a guy focusing on hard hitting journalism was here earlier.

06:15:44 mircea_popescu: hopefully he sticks.

06:16:33 kakobrekla: looky, erik is alive

06:16:35 kakobrekla: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yv6ph/some_words_for_my_friends/

06:16:50 Vexual: the viking?

06:17:32 mircea_popescu: lol

06:17:51 Bugpowder: The 0.01% of bitcoin trying to feel the pain of the 99%

06:17:59 davout: LOL

06:18:05 mircea_popescu: lmao why so mean.

06:18:46 mircea_popescu: actually it's prolly less than 0.001%

06:19:11 mircea_popescu: pretty sure he's in the 100 archons, and pretty sure there's over 100k people with some bitcoin dust somewhere.

06:19:13 nubbins`: the satoshi%

06:19:19 mircea_popescu: so that'd be 1 in 1k

06:19:27 davout: i hope my 300 EUR/BTC bid gets to feel the pain too

06:19:46 mircea_popescu: $vwap x.eur

06:19:47 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: average: 0.00206827 high: 0.0021 low: 0.002 volume: 1100 btc: 2.2751 7 day: average: 0.00211705 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.002 volume: 4209 btc: 8.91064414 30 day: average: 0.00187721 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.00166114 volume: 17120 btc: 32.13776514

06:19:49 mircea_popescu: $depth x.eur

06:19:50 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR Bids: ['200 @ 0.00170512', '500 @ 0.00169213', '4200 @ 0.0016245', '100 @ 0.00153846', '1000 @ 0.001']

06:19:51 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['749 @ 0.0025', '251 @ 0.0026', '450 @ 0.002837', '1531 @ 0.0029']

06:20:04 mircea_popescu: some gap there.

06:20:06 davout: not there :D

06:20:18 davout: still gotta work on the bot

06:20:34 Vexual: make it do binladens too

06:20:53 Vexual: gangsta

06:21:23 greenspan_fan: how many bots are in this channel?

06:21:27 Vexual: or g* is five or ten rather than 3.45565

06:21:31 nubbins`: we are all bots

06:21:37 Vexual: im the orb

06:21:37 davout: greenspan_fan: there's assbot, ozbot, gribble

06:22:00 mod6: mpexbot

06:22:01 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan bout 3

06:22:02 davout: mebbe other that i forget/don't know about

06:22:04 greenspan_fan: how many are custom code?

06:22:15 mircea_popescu: i think most are supybot

06:22:47 kakobrekla: assbot is assbot

06:22:54 davout: .bait

06:22:55 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/1f55fe7276e6389293ff0657a32daf1b/tumblr_mffqe8FCLj1rxd7x3o1_1280.jpg

06:23:01 davout: that's ozbot :3

06:23:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.00508637 = 0.1933 BTC [-] {3}

06:23:14 davout: that's a cute one

06:23:16 Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Serious question time, how will options contracts be exercised at month's end? At bitcoincharts price, or at last quoted (~$650 / BTC)?

06:23:44 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder that'll be announced then

06:23:50 davout: bitcoincharts 7d vwap iirc

06:23:59 davout: haha guess not heh

06:24:20 mircea_popescu: davout was 24h vwap, except arguably bitcoincharts is broken etc.

06:24:23 mircea_popescu: it's a fucking conundrum.

06:24:45 Bugpowder: Going to have a big effect on S.MPOE results. Would like to know before.

06:24:54 davout: i was thinking about when you said using implied spot for futures was a bad idea

06:25:04 Bugpowder: bitcoincharts may fix itself shortly though

06:25:05 davout: you still think so?

06:25:08 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder kinda why i'm not saying anything.

06:25:19 mircea_popescu: davout not sure exactly what you mean ?

06:25:39 davout: we were discussing the basket, and how mtgox was kinda ruining it

06:25:47 mircea_popescu: yeah

06:26:12 davout: and that it would theoretically possible to use the future's implied spot to get the collateralization requirement

06:26:14 Vexual: vorb eurostack

06:26:17 *: Vexual 1.05

06:26:26 Vexual: vorb findeuro

06:26:33 *: Vexual unknown

06:26:35 greenspan_fan: "If you’re sad about your bitcoins losing all their value, maybe you should have put out more lands so you could bring them out earlier." -- @deliciousbees

06:26:35 davout: not even the implied spot i guess, the actual spot

06:26:54 Bugpowder: 420 on coinbase dude

06:27:21 mircea_popescu: davout i recall you proposing that and me pointing out it cant happen because of backfeed.

06:27:22 davout: or some vwap

06:28:42 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/438198808359731200 << curious how well that works out.

06:28:43 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @niubi You only think that ...

06:28:59 Vexual: .m

06:29:01 davout: nah, i said BC's vwap, which you understood as x.eur's vwap

06:29:15 mircea_popescu: no difference, inasmuch as you run both.

06:29:20 davout: i didn't even think about using x.eur's

06:29:39 Vexual: .lm

06:29:47 Vexual: .bait

06:29:48 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/8c082dff11f32c3ae6859b73a4b3ea20/tumblr_mg6egfuPs31rjpxwzo1_500.jpg

06:30:10 Vexual: zing

06:30:11 davout: wouldn't it make sense if the market was larger?

06:30:40 davout: anyway, just wondering

06:30:51 mircea_popescu: it wouldn't make sense no matter how large the market is, because you arguably can still control it.

06:31:13 davout: at least on the x.eur side that's something that you could quantify

06:31:15 mircea_popescu: maybe if you were mtgox cca 2011 and had 9x% of the market you could bring the arugment that it's nonsense to empower errors by going outside

06:31:27 davout: yeah

06:31:27 mircea_popescu: but im not in the business of quantifying such.

06:31:52 davout: on an unrelated note the french are in favor of internet big brothering -> http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/2014/02/25/97002-20140225FILWWW00021-les-francais-pour-la-surveillance-d-internet.php

06:31:58 davout: such wow

06:32:19 mircea_popescu: basically the french strike me as the sort of people who'd be in favour of a government accuplation scheme.

06:32:32 mircea_popescu: you submit your genital pictures, you get matched by le departement with some guy,

06:32:47 mircea_popescu: functionaries come and insert his thing in your thing, etc

06:33:04 cerelenius: mircea: care to comment on the price thnx

06:33:11 davout: lol, don't see me as french, i'm half dutch, half nigerian

06:33:33 davout: cerelenius: reddit seems to be doing a good job with that :-)

06:33:37 mod6: yoh dawg, we heard you like things in your thing

06:33:40 mircea_popescu: cerelenius notrly.

06:34:23 cerelenius: shrem made a total fool of himself again

06:34:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.472 BTC [-]

06:35:02 mircea_popescu: you know pick something and stick to it, koin3d, whatever.

06:35:09 mircea_popescu: this constant namechanging is derpy.

06:35:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 542 @ 0.00506068 = 2.7429 BTC [+] {6}

06:36:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 134 @ 0.00520597 = 0.6976 BTC [+] {4}

06:36:42 cerelenius: is the 700k stolen figure true? how does that even make sense

06:37:25 Vexual: vorb ^

06:37:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-02-2014#527970

06:37:43 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

06:37:48 Duffer1: i'd say it's likely true, the only question is the identity of the thieves

06:37:50 *: Vexual classified

06:38:16 cerelenius: well yea but they were honoring btc withdrawals

06:38:23 cerelenius: up until the fall 2013

06:38:25 Vexual: scam 101

06:38:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 154 @ 0.00526065 = 0.8101 BTC [+] {5}

06:38:45 cerelenius: thieves my ass karpeles is a fucking jew himself

06:38:52 toffoo: any guesses here on "collateral damage" of gox collapse? who will be the 3rd-party businesses/services who will now collapse because they had coins/funds tied up at gox?

06:38:57 cerelenius: his cabal took them

06:39:06 Duffer1: that's what i'm saying cere

06:39:08 cerelenius: how would he not notice that type of leakage for so long

06:39:19 Bugpowder: toffoo: good point

06:39:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00525796 = 0.3943 BTC [-] {3}

06:39:30 Bugpowder: counterparty exposure could be bad

06:39:33 cerelenius: toffoo no i dont think so

06:39:40 cerelenius: everyone with 2 IQ points left gox last year

06:39:46 Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Did you keep any of MPEX account funds on Mt GOx?

06:39:49 toffoo: it's going to bite at least somebody big out there

06:39:55 mircea_popescu: toffoo most of the people clueless enough to have been exposed will probably be rescued by their investors now, a la second market.

06:39:56 cerelenius: lol bugpowder

06:40:05 mircea_popescu: it's likely the twinklelosses are out of the game.

06:40:14 Vexual: ooh

06:40:14 mircea_popescu: Bugpowder i never had a gox account.

06:40:29 mircea_popescu: it's possible this blow actually takes out the bitcoin foundation scamgroup,

06:40:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96150 @ 0.0008861 = 85.1985 BTC [+] {6}

06:40:30 cerelenius: mircea_popescu they held coins at gox?

06:40:37 mircea_popescu: but we'll have to see.

06:40:52 mircea_popescu: obviously i'll be trying to lock any doors for mr v that i can. race against time.

06:40:52 cerelenius: winklevoss had their own wallet...

06:41:07 Vexual: fancy

06:41:09 cerelenius: mr v?

06:41:12 Bugpowder: V is the worst

06:41:14 mircea_popescu: yes, some clown.

06:41:17 cerelenius: vessennes

06:41:34 cerelenius: king scumbag

06:42:19 cerelenius: the irony here is the exchange where nobody knows the owner ends up lasting the longest(btce)

06:42:41 mircea_popescu: bitstamp is actually older if memory serves.

06:43:06 Vexual: is btce dead?

06:43:16 cerelenius: bitstamp is a pita to withdraw from 5k+ they turn it into a huge Q&A session

06:43:21 cerelenius: vexual no

06:43:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 92 @ 0.00539949 = 0.4968 BTC [+] {2}

06:43:35 davout: mircea_popescu: nah

06:43:49 cerelenius: mircea_popescu: why do you think the foundation gets taken down?

06:43:56 davout: btc-e and gox were are oldest, followed by BC

06:44:16 davout: then came the britcoin/intersango crowd

06:44:18 mircea_popescu: ic.

06:44:29 cerelenius: btce is russian run they are more clever

06:44:45 greenspan_fan: It would be interesting to know how many of the dev team had money on gox

06:44:45 mircea_popescu: yes, it is often the case entire groups of millions of people are more clever.

06:44:46 cerelenius: karpeles fat jew no wonder shrem vouched for him

06:45:08 davout: cerelenius: is there something wrong with being jewish?

06:45:10 greenspan_fan: if those people are toast, development might slow down

06:45:34 cerelenius: davout: jews have a tendency for causing chaos, it goes back to choosing barabas in the new testament..

06:45:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.47142857 = 3.3 BTC [-] {2}

06:45:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 245 @ 0.00525243 = 1.2868 BTC [-] {3}

06:45:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.11064975 = 3.3195 BTC [-] {7}

06:45:38 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan considering what counts for development these days that should increase the btc price.

06:45:47 cerelenius: davout: not going to get into that with you

06:46:03 davout: cerelenius you're not getting to

06:46:16 davout: into anything anyway, don't even know who the fuck you are

06:46:32 cerelenius: well ill give credit to mircea for calling it before anyone else

06:46:32 mircea_popescu: he's this angry canadian fellow.

06:46:34 cerelenius: publicly

06:47:00 mircea_popescu: why are you so angry anyway.

06:47:10 cerelenius: fk off

06:47:26 greenspan_fan: I think he's just trying to be cool, because racism is controversial

06:47:45 jurov: http://imgur.com/esDRP98 for greenspan_fan

06:47:46 ozbot: As a white male, thank you for making me feel awkward ESPN.. - Imgur

06:47:56 cerelenius: i never said anything racist

06:47:56 mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan racism is controversial, but re niggers not re jews.

06:48:21 mod6: speaking of dev, i thought the most recent list of defects was pretty spot on. account naming issues, et. al.

06:48:34 cerelenius: mircea_popescu: can you comment on the foundation collapsing?

06:48:55 mircea_popescu: mod6 barely scratches the surface, really.

06:48:59 mircea_popescu: we need a motherfuckingspec.

06:49:08 greenspan_fan: jesus, are you writing an article for your local freeman-on-the-land tabloid?

06:49:17 mircea_popescu: jurov what i don't understand is... why are all those black guys dressed like if they were white ?

06:49:24 cerelenius: lol greenspan

06:49:38 mod6: it was nice addendum to the first list you made tho. but yeah.

06:49:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0051 = 0.51 BTC [-] {3}

06:49:52 davout: mircea_popescu: no, because specification is hard, also leads to alternate implementations, which leads to bugs

06:49:59 mircea_popescu: white/blue shirts with lines, and the dots on white on the guy on left ? it's fucking outrageously unflattering.

06:50:07 B007: mircea_popescu: america makes them think they are

06:50:11 mircea_popescu: davout o yes i see, alternative implementations leads to bugs.

06:50:15 mircea_popescu: this is so true.

06:50:15 davout: yup

06:50:19 mircea_popescu: why are we even in bitcoin

06:50:21 davout: hearn said it

06:50:26 davout: must be true

06:50:27 mircea_popescu: davout yes but hearn is an idiot.

06:50:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 557 @ 0.00539949 = 3.0075 BTC [+] {7}

06:50:44 davout: no, he works for guggle

06:50:46 mircea_popescu: fun fact : llvm lead to very many gcc bugs

06:50:49 mircea_popescu: being finally fixed.

06:50:50 dexX7: awww http://s.imgur.com/images/OverCapacity_700.png

06:51:33 davout: mircea_popescu: oh and "bitcoin relies on bugs in openssl"

06:51:40 davout: \o/

06:51:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 64 @ 0.00539948 = 0.3456 BTC [-] {2}

06:51:43 mircea_popescu: lmao

06:51:55 davout: i'm not even joking

06:51:58 mircea_popescu: no i know

06:52:00 mircea_popescu: it's still funny.

06:52:21 Vexual: kakobrekla, how much do i owe on the dukebox?

06:52:23 cerelenius: mircea_popescu: will gavin be affected ?

06:52:51 greenspan_fan: and what about the jews?!?!?!?!?!?!?

06:53:02 mircea_popescu: the jews will be affected.

06:53:06 davout: gavin is probably jewish

06:53:22 mircea_popescu: i think his wife is jewish

06:53:23 davout: mircea_popescu: wrong, the smart jews don't have anything left in gox since 2011

06:53:33 mircea_popescu: davout there are smart jews ?

06:53:45 davout: mircea_popescu: are there?

06:53:46 greenspan_fan: oh my god, you guys.

06:53:48 mircea_popescu: o wait i think i must have mixed up my stereotype cards

06:53:49 mircea_popescu: nevermind.

06:53:58 davout: go trade them on gox

06:54:01 davout: o wait

06:54:01 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

06:54:02 greenspan_fan: hahaha

06:54:04 Vexual: zing

06:54:09 mod6: haha

06:54:16 mircea_popescu: so basically -assets is like old time tv

06:54:22 cerelenius: satoshi was probably jewish, from the economic theory around btc at least

06:54:23 mircea_popescu: there's like comedy hour, finance hour, porn hour

06:54:26 mircea_popescu: we got it all!

06:54:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 202 @ 0.00520098 = 1.0506 BTC [-] {3}

06:54:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00088221 = 14.777 BTC [-]

06:54:47 B007: where is the business?

06:54:53 mircea_popescu: in the pudding.

06:54:54 Vexual: its all business

06:55:18 assbot: Last 20 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656532/plain/)

06:55:18 jurov: !b 20

06:55:25 cerelenius: bitcoin is 100% jewish monetary theory, hoard coins and watch them swell in value while adding zero value

06:55:36 jurov: kakobrekla, dwanna some help with bashing?

06:55:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.11996649 = 2.0394 BTC [+] {5}

06:55:52 greenspan_fan: all monetary is jewish monetary theory

06:56:03 cerelenius: unfortunately in 2013 capitalism yes

06:56:19 greenspan_fan: and I have some bad news about physics, too

06:56:32 davout: cerelenius: actually bitcoin is jewish in the sense that you're not invited

06:56:47 cerelenius: well economics is a pseudo physics, adam smith essentially seperated it from moral philosophy

06:56:48 kakobrekla: jurov you wanna admin the thing?

06:56:57 jurov: sometimes yes

06:57:10 kakobrekla: k

06:57:18 Vexual: he does have a good sense of humour

06:57:32 B007: have you guys read Atlas Shrugged?

06:57:49 antephialtic: yes (unfortunately)

06:57:52 cerelenius: ayn rand propaganda

06:57:57 Bugpowder: Jesus christ

06:58:01 greenspan_fan: jesus. of course. it makes my top 20 most tedious list.

06:58:05 cerelenius: hi bugpowder

06:58:21 Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, you got results from your analysis yet ?

06:58:29 Bugpowder: No I am too busy doing recordings

06:58:34 antephialtic: if you're going to read a rand book, read anthem, its much shorter and gets all her ideas across without 1200 pages of terrible dialogue

06:58:36 Bugpowder: I got some nice cells tho

06:58:55 Bugpowder: Also I'm too tired to figure out how to recurse this nicely.

06:58:57 cerelenius: greenspan_fan: modern economics is all about having something swell in value(deflation) via usury. bitcoin is no exception pal

06:59:04 antephialtic: if you really must read a long one, read the fountainhead, its a lot better than atlas shrugged.

06:59:34 Bugpowder: Or watch the movie

06:59:52 greenspan_fan: cerelenius usury is what deadbeats call it when they can't meet the interest payments (because they're deadbeats), let alone the principal

07:00:03 mod6: fountainhead was ok. i think 'we the living' was better if you must.

07:00:07 cerelenius: because its impossible to meet it?

07:00:17 cerelenius: 21mil btc @ 1% is impossible.

07:00:35 greenspan_fan: then don't invest in bitcoin. You'll get better returns with your trailer park meth lab.

07:00:41 cerelenius: i meant lending them

07:00:53 mircea_popescu: <greenspan_fan> all monetary is jewish monetary theory << actually it's gypstalian

07:00:57 mircea_popescu: jews did relatively little.

07:01:05 cerelenius: lol bitcoin is not an investment pal, its a speculation. bitcoins are sterile

07:01:10 mircea_popescu: physics tho, yea, as jewish as communism.

07:01:21 cerelenius: mircea_popescu: you talking about florence

07:01:31 greenspan_fan: cerelenius okkk, walter white-power

07:01:38 cerelenius: get your terms right.

07:01:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.47010074 = 18.804 BTC [-] {6}

07:01:58 cerelenius: when you "buy" a bitcoin its zero sum, someone else now has what you exchanged for it

07:02:08 cerelenius: you arent adding capital to any project

07:02:18 greenspan_fan: what is buying anything, then?

07:02:32 davout: mircea_popescu: you forgot to mention the derp hour apparently

07:02:36 cerelenius: investing is when you combine capital with labor, ideas etc to create new value

07:02:40 Vexual: floating a theory is free dickhead

07:02:44 cerelenius: anything else is mere speculation

07:02:45 mircea_popescu: davout derp hour is like pie hour.

07:02:53 mircea_popescu: every time is a good time for pie.

07:02:57 davout: hahaha

07:03:24 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'll bbl.

07:03:35 cerelenius: bitcoin economy you will always have everyone impoverished except about 0.001% of holders

07:03:45 cerelenius: the same thing under 100% gold standard

07:03:52 mircea_popescu: cerelenius that's fine, brains distribute about the same way.

07:03:58 mircea_popescu: let the idiots be poor, best thing for them and everyone else.

07:04:15 cerelenius: it ends up backfiring on the rich though over the long term

07:04:47 cerelenius: thats what occured in florence as well, you had the biggest prosperity ever yet they ended up imploding since the commoner couldnt afford to run a family

07:04:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.47 = 0.94 BTC [-]

07:05:18 Vexual: u wanna renaissance? do it

07:05:36 cerelenius: renaissance was a bread and circus to cover the economic looting of that time

07:05:50 cerelenius: hence all the arts

07:07:03 greenspan_fan: so many other things happened at the time

07:07:14 cerelenius: in bitcoin large holders have to do nothing, becuase as the armies of fanatics spread the gospel and do all the work, the largest holders get all the purchasing power transfered to them

07:07:32 Vexual: yeah people did good shit, and other people went. whoa here have some money

07:08:08 cerelenius: greenspan_fan: you are clueless. renaissance was the birth of capitalism and large scale usury in the west, it ended up destroying all the participating city states

07:08:32 greenspan_fan: in the midst of dynastic struggle, wars, and massive religious upheaval

07:08:33 cerelenius: venice went from richest region in the world to flat broke

07:08:40 greenspan_fan: but clearly it was the usurious jews

07:08:42 cerelenius: no it was usury.

07:08:45 greenspan_fan: hahaha

07:08:48 cerelenius: not just them

07:08:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.00539949 = 0.1512 BTC [+] {2}

07:09:00 cerelenius: everyone was engaged in it essentially

07:09:33 cerelenius: fugger were the most famous

07:09:45 greenspan_fan: and yet, I am not convinced that charging interest is bad. If you want me to loan you something, then you should compensate for my not having it while you use it.

07:09:49 cerelenius: the problem with usury is your economy never grows fast enough to keep up with the debt + interest

07:10:05 cerelenius: greenspan_fan: well yea there is legit compensation and then there is usury.

07:10:22 greenspan_fan: so okay, by definition, then, usury is bad

07:10:55 cerelenius: in bitcoin you will never be able to have a functioning credit market

07:11:18 cerelenius: you could run a bills of exchange system if they ever figure out how to make it decentralized

07:11:44 Apocalyptic: <cerelenius> in bitcoin you will never be able to have a functioning credit market // as said above, it's not that bad

07:11:59 Apocalyptic: businesses will find finances it they are worthy of it

07:12:09 cerelenius: you need a self liquidating credit system

07:12:16 cerelenius: without credit impossible to allocate any capital

07:12:49 Apocalyptic: here's where you're mistaken

07:13:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 210 @ 0.00534999 = 1.1235 BTC [-] {3}

07:13:27 cerelenius: apocalyptic: im not mistaken, most people have zero idea what money is and who can issue it.

07:13:49 cerelenius: bitcoins grand accomplishment is the blockchain

07:13:53 Apocalyptic: how does that contradict the fact you are ?

07:14:27 cerelenius: apocalyptic: bitcoin as a currency resembles a sophisticated wealth transfer scheme, those who have more of it benefit from the work of everyone else

07:14:37 mjr_: so...

07:14:38 cerelenius: as their coins swell in value

07:14:47 greenspan_fan: asymptopically, though, it evens out

07:14:57 cerelenius: no it doesnt lol how?

07:15:59 cerelenius: an early adopter or large coin holder just has to sit and do nothing, as everyone else "adds to the ecosystem" their coins swell in value with next to no risk, and they didnt even have to hire labor lol

07:16:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 600 @ 0.00522283 = 3.1337 BTC [-] {4}

07:16:06 greenspan_fan: if bitcoin or its like ends up becoming the main currency, or at least a sufficiently important one

07:16:14 cerelenius: it never will

07:16:23 mjr_: well...that all depends, you are describing the "free rider" problem

07:16:27 mjr_: which is not new

07:16:37 cerelenius: mjr_: all deflationary systems work like that

07:16:41 mjr_: some people get to (shocking) drive on roads they never paid for

07:16:50 greenspan_fan: so the alternative is fiat with the jews or btc with the cyber-jews

07:17:01 mjr_: nah, think about it this way

07:17:11 cerelenius: mjr_: money can be anything that extinguishes debt. and since only producers can pay off debt, they are the only ones who can issue money

07:17:18 mjr_: wrong

07:17:19 mjr_: IMO

07:17:26 mjr_: since you can have assets without debt

07:17:26 cerelenius: bitcoin can only work with a functioning bills of exchange market

07:17:32 mjr_: and you can trade those assets for others

07:17:36 mjr_: without any debt being involved

07:17:43 cerelenius: your confused

07:17:52 greenspan_fan: your line of reasoning is based off of axioms that other people don't agree with

07:17:59 cerelenius: say im a farmer and i need capital to grow my crop

07:18:03 greenspan_fan: so this is pointless

07:18:05 cerelenius: which i cant sell for 6months

07:18:08 mjr_: lets pretend we were little kids

07:18:11 mjr_: and i had a pb and j

07:18:13 Vexual: youre a shit farmwer

07:18:15 cerelenius: if you lend me btc at interest, the crop price will go down

07:18:16 mjr_: and you had a cheese sandwich

07:18:29 mjr_: we can trade with no debts

07:18:32 mjr_: that is the basis of money

07:18:39 cerelenius: debt is the basis of money

07:18:43 cerelenius: money is a contract it always was

07:18:43 mjr_: what if we had an "abstract base sandwich", no it is not

07:18:46 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYs0gJD-LE

07:18:46 ozbot: M.I.A. - "Bad Girls" (Official Video) - YouTube

07:18:47 mjr_: it isn't

07:18:49 davout: cerelenius: you're working on the assumption that money is debt, come back next year

07:18:53 mjr_: we can agree to disagree

07:18:55 mjr_: but traditionally

07:18:56 cerelenius: money is a contract

07:19:01 cerelenius: thats all it is

07:19:04 mjr_: it is a token

07:19:06 davout: cerelenius: money is no such thing

07:19:06 mjr_: there is a difference

07:19:07 cerelenius: no it isnt lol

07:19:21 davout: cerelenius: well, enjoy your contracts, i'll enjoy my money

07:19:30 mjr_: you are mixing up "backed by" with "tradeable for"

07:19:38 cerelenius: no im not

07:19:46 cerelenius: tokens havent been used since tribal days

07:19:47 mjr_: in the first case, you have an entity willing to always exchange at a fixed ratio

07:19:48 davout: a contract is debt

07:19:53 cerelenius: yes

07:19:54 mjr_: dollars a token

07:20:00 cerelenius: dollars are not a token lol

07:20:07 cerelenius: they are a credit instrument

07:20:11 mjr_: no they are not

07:20:19 mjr_: i have dollars

07:20:19 davout: cerelenius: bitcoin is a commodity, money, not a contract

07:20:22 cerelenius: every single dollar issued must be backed by collateral

07:20:22 greenspan_fan: let's pretend we're talking about something that doesn't involve contracts

07:20:22 mjr_: what does someone owe me?

07:20:26 mjr_: tell me

07:20:36 greenspan_fan: say, sandwich-coin

07:20:37 mjr_: where can i redeem this debt instrument?

07:20:38 cerelenius: mjr: those dollars are fed reserve liabilities backed by fed reserve assets

07:20:43 mjr_: no they are not

07:20:51 cerelenius: mjr: you cant redeem it, its like a self liquidating tbill

07:20:51 davout: cerelenius: bwahahaha

07:20:54 mjr_: the fed has others dollars

07:20:58 cerelenius: no they dont

07:21:04 mjr_: oh, so it represents a debt that won't be paid to me

07:21:06 mjr_: cool system

07:21:09 cerelenius: yes.

07:21:10 mjr_: it doesn't work that way

07:21:17 cerelenius: hence why it requires perpetual debt creation

07:21:22 greenspan_fan: to a first approximation, dollars are a token

07:21:26 cerelenius: mjr: of course it does pull up the fed balance sheet

07:21:30 mjr_: no...you really don't understand...

07:21:39 cerelenius: every single paper USD in existence is backed by assets the fed holds

07:21:43 mjr_: a debt means that i am OWED something

07:21:44 cerelenius: namely US government bonds

07:21:48 mjr_: in other words i can REDEEM it

07:21:54 cerelenius: all electronic dollars are created by commercial banks

07:21:55 mjr_: you cannot redeem a dollar

07:21:56 Vexual: heres a lesson in semantics

07:22:00 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcuAw77J8_Y

07:22:01 ozbot: Busta Rhymes - Arab Money - YouTube

07:22:03 cerelenius: backed by collateral

07:22:11 mjr_: what is their collateral?

07:22:20 cerelenius: for fed or commercial banks?

07:22:22 Vexual: what u got?

07:22:28 mjr_: that is like saying "a mortgage is backed by a house, but you cannot ever take the house'

07:22:38 mjr_: then it isn't backed by the house...

07:22:41 cerelenius: the fed collateral is US gov bonds

07:22:46 mjr_: which are denominated in...

07:22:48 mjr_: oh rightr

07:22:49 mjr_: dollars

07:22:54 cerelenius: commercial bank collateral is anything lent against

07:22:57 mjr_: so i have a debt that means you have to pay me other dollars

07:22:59 jurov: bash flushed

07:23:07 mjr_: that is silly

07:23:10 cerelenius: mjr: yea i agree its not redeemable, its like a 0day tbill

07:23:18 mjr_: then its not a debt

07:23:21 mjr_: it is a token

07:23:22 cerelenius: mjr: thats the system they created since they got off gold redeemability

07:23:27 cerelenius: no it isnt

07:23:41 mjr_: first off, that is my point, "notes" represent assets on account

07:23:43 mjr_: traditionally

07:23:50 cerelenius: its impossible to repay debts under the current system because the dollar itself comes into existence through borrowing

07:23:58 mjr_: whatever we have done in the last 40 years doesn't fundamentally change the meaning of the word money

07:24:07 davout: cerelenius: by definition fiat money is a token that is assigned value because of a law, not because it represents a claim to anything

07:24:17 mjr_: nice, i'm glad you read "debt: the first 5000 years" but that is not actually the case

07:24:18 cerelenius: fiat money and credit money are 2 different things

07:24:23 mjr_: yes

07:24:27 cerelenius: we arent in zimbabwe

07:24:31 cerelenius: that is 100% fiat

07:24:39 davout: cerelenius: so what's your point exactly?

07:24:41 cerelenius: we have a credit money system

07:24:41 mjr_: simple easy lesson

07:24:52 mjr_: if you cannot trade it in for a fixed amount of something else...there is no difference to you

07:24:57 cerelenius: dabout: my point is bitcoin cannot function on a large scale without a bills of exchange system

07:25:01 mjr_: it is a token

07:25:07 davout: cerelenius: you mean paper bitcoins?

07:25:08 mjr_: which we use to exchange value

07:25:11 cerelenius: mjr: a token is not a liability of someone

07:25:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1279 @ 0.00051978 = 0.6648 BTC [+] {5}

07:25:18 mjr_: and a dollar is not a liability of anyone

07:25:24 cerelenius: yes it is

07:25:28 mjr_: unless you are using that word in a completely differnt way than i think

07:25:36 mjr_: in which case i would like to borrow as much as i can from you

07:25:44 mjr_: liability is something which is owed

07:25:45 davout: by liability he means garden chair, oh wait it makes sense now

07:25:47 mjr_: the fed owes us nothing

07:25:57 mjr_: you cannot redeem a dollar for anything

07:26:00 mjr_: it cannot be a debt

07:26:15 mjr_: since the fundamental core concept of a debt is that it can be "redeemed"

07:26:17 cerelenius: go and look at the fed balance sheet

07:26:22 cerelenius: every single dollar is a liability

07:26:28 cerelenius: backed by equal assets

07:26:38 mjr_: and...

07:26:38 cerelenius: thats what gives them value

07:26:38 davout: "assets"

07:26:44 mjr_: that is what you would call "accounting"

07:26:45 cerelenius: think about this

07:26:48 Vexual: you aint the fed bro

07:26:53 cerelenius: total debt + interest

07:26:55 mjr_: davout: exactly "assets"

07:26:57 cerelenius: always exceeds available dollars

07:27:00 mjr_: ugh

07:27:03 cerelenius: thats why there is always a BID for dollars

07:27:08 cerelenius: someone constantly needs them to repay a debt

07:27:15 mjr_: yes i know all this, and it doesn't change the fundamental everyday reality

07:27:21 mjr_: not if you don't owe anything

07:27:22 cerelenius: you are clueless

07:27:29 mjr_: what if no one owed anybody anything?

07:27:32 cerelenius: paper dollars are liability of the fed

07:27:40 mjr_: i am trying to talk about the BASIC definitions

07:27:40 cerelenius: mjr then there would be no money

07:27:41 davout: mjr_: leave britney alone man

07:27:46 mjr_: since you don't seemm to understand

07:27:51 MisterE: are we at the bottom yet?

07:27:51 cerelenius: if there was no debt there would be no dollars in this system

07:27:56 mjr_: yes there would be

07:28:00 cerelenius: no there wouldnt be.

07:28:06 davout: mjr_: it all makes sense in his system because the juice run the fed or w/e

07:28:07 mjr_: are you saying it is physically impossible to print a dollar bill without the fed?

07:28:14 MisterE: why is this happenening, CEP resigning from BTC.org?

07:28:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00088225 = 15.4835 BTC [+]

07:28:18 MisterE: CEO*

07:28:19 mjr_: just so you know

07:28:19 cerelenius: mjr: every single dollar printed MUST be backed by an asset.

07:28:30 mjr_: the treasury actually creates the dollars, at least m0

07:28:32 cerelenius: they do not print unbacked

07:28:35 mjr_: lol

07:28:37 mjr_: whatever you say bud

07:28:40 MisterE: lololol

07:28:41 davout: "assets"

07:28:43 mjr_: yes[

07:28:45 Vexual: yeah and gox has coins, tell us something good

07:28:45 cerelenius: the treasury runs the printing press at the behest of the fed

07:28:47 mjr_: fully backed of course

07:28:48 MisterE: what planet do you come from?

07:28:58 MisterE: they print $ by adding zeros to a number on a computer

07:29:01 mjr_: this is why you are silly

07:29:03 davout: #bitcoin-derp apparently

07:29:09 MisterE: lol

07:29:15 mjr_: to say that the fed has "assets" backing their dollars

07:29:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00520959 = 0.5157 BTC [-] {2}

07:29:19 Vexual: graph it cerelenius

07:29:27 MisterE: yea it's called a stack of IOUs davout

07:29:30 mjr_: you are mixing up accounting terminology with real life

07:29:32 cerelenius: graph what its on the fed website

07:29:34 mjr_: that is the key

07:29:41 cerelenius: mjr you are clueless pal

07:29:43 mjr_: a debt is a "receivable" which is an asset

07:29:46 MisterE: and tell us why they no longer publish M3?

07:29:52 MisterE: just research M3

07:30:04 mjr_: or rather...i should say that in our accounting system, a receivable is listed as an asset

07:30:18 MisterE: ^ which is a mistake

07:30:21 mjr_: in the human made scheme that conforms to GAAP

07:30:23 cerelenius: US federal reserve notes are liabilities

07:30:24 MisterE: imho

07:30:26 mjr_: no they are not

07:30:27 cerelenius: for the federal reserve

07:30:29 cerelenius: yes they are

07:30:32 mjr_: no...

07:30:35 mjr_: watch this

07:30:38 cerelenius: https://lh3.ggpht.com/-XwC13k12gNI/ThuQGGC8d8I/AAAAAAAAGFU/oqFXVt8wTyY/s1600/Federal+Reserve+Assets+and+Capital.png

07:30:38 mjr_: i give you $5

07:30:48 cerelenius: where did the 5 come from?

07:30:52 mjr_: i put in a book, " cerelenius owes me $5"

07:30:55 cerelenius: it has to be borrowed into existence

07:30:58 mjr_: that entry in the book is an asset

07:31:04 mjr_: no it doesn't

07:31:11 Vexual: months or drug abuse before personality disorder appeared?

07:31:12 mjr_: there is no rule anywhere that says it does

07:31:16 mjr_: for example

07:31:19 mjr_: susan b anthonys

07:31:21 mjr_: are dollars

07:31:22 cerelenius: http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/bernanke20091008slide6.gif

07:31:24 cerelenius: dude shut up

07:31:25 mjr_: and are not made by the fed

07:31:27 cerelenius: its on the fed site

07:31:33 cerelenius: all US FRN are fed reserve liabilities

07:31:34 mjr_: explain coins

07:31:37 mjr_: not coins

07:31:40 mjr_: they don't issue them

07:31:44 mjr_: so...

07:31:49 mjr_: what "debt" backs those?

07:31:53 cerelenius: i told you

07:31:55 cerelenius: US gov bonds

07:32:07 mjr_: i think that you are missing the forest for the trees

07:32:09 cerelenius: everytime new FRNs are to be printed, there has to be a posted asset

07:32:14 mjr_: sure its fun to talk about retarded shit like this

07:32:19 cerelenius: i think you are oblivious

07:32:21 mjr_: but in the real world, in your real life

07:32:23 MisterE: dudes we're debt backing debt insured by debt

07:32:24 mjr_: you don't redeem them

07:32:29 mjr_: you trade them

07:32:32 mjr_: as tokens

07:32:38 Apocalyptic: <MisterE> dudes we're debt backing debt insured by debt // genius...

07:32:42 cerelenius: http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedsbalancesheet.htm

07:32:46 cerelenius: go educate yourself

07:32:50 mjr_: i don't care what they write on paper

07:32:52 mjr_: are you silly?

07:32:54 MisterE: thanks Apocalyptic :)

07:33:04 mjr_: oh, the fed says that they should print more money

07:33:05 cerelenius: every single dollar in existence must be lent into existence

07:33:07 mjr_: well its true the fed said it

07:33:10 mjr_: no

07:33:12 MisterE: now tell me where the bottom is :)

07:33:13 mjr_: that is def not true

07:33:16 cerelenius: the fed doesnt print money they lend it

07:33:21 cerelenius: you need a borrower on the other end

07:33:23 mjr_: yes

07:33:28 mjr_: but they don't create it

07:33:29 Apocalyptic: MisterE, why would I do that exactly ?

07:33:30 cerelenius: the private sector stopped borrowing in 2007

07:33:32 mjr_: the treasury does

07:33:38 cerelenius: so the government took up the slack

07:33:51 MisterE: so I can get all the BTC for myself!

07:34:02 cerelenius: the fed flooded the system with credit but there were no takers for it, hence the huge reserve balances banks now hold

07:34:03 Apocalyptic: see, that's a problem

07:34:05 MisterE: because you have a lot already Apocalyptic ?

07:34:07 cerelenius: the only taker has been the government

07:34:07 Apocalyptic: I want some too

07:34:16 MisterE: hehe, let's conspire

07:34:24 cerelenius: private sector is borrowing for stuff like student loans etc

07:34:25 cerelenius: nothing else

07:34:48 Vexual: what?

07:34:53 Vexual: you're bent

07:34:53 MisterE: poor cerelenius and the rest of the sheep who still have faitin in the financial house of cards

07:34:58 cerelenius: hyperinflation under such a system is next to impossible, you can have hyperdeflation instead

07:35:12 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656677/plain/)

07:35:12 davout: !b 1

07:35:12 cerelenius: mistere: before the USD collapses youll have hyperdeflation

07:35:22 cerelenius: like we saw in 08

07:35:24 MisterE: cerelenius: either way it won't bother me

07:35:30 MisterE: I'm in commodities

07:35:36 cerelenius: LOL those will collapse

07:35:45 MisterE: no thats shit people actually need

07:35:46 MisterE: to use

07:35:46 cerelenius: commodities collapsed 80% in 2008

07:35:58 MisterE: 2008 was an aberration

07:36:00 cerelenius: under credit collapse ie deflation, demand collapses

07:36:13 MisterE: and if it crashes that hard we're all fucked so it's AK-47 time

07:36:13 cerelenius: 2008 was a shot across the bow, a warning of the future

07:36:19 cerelenius: and it was not an inflationary collapse

07:36:32 MisterE: I agree 2008 was a warning

07:36:33 mjr_: just so you know

07:36:41 MisterE: and we're trying to spend our way out of it

07:36:41 mjr_: the treasury doesn't just give the money to the fed

07:36:45 mjr_: the fed pays for it

07:36:49 MisterE: ^

07:36:57 mjr_: which...how can they pay for something which they created?

07:37:00 cerelenius: the fed doesnt order much federal reserve notes

07:37:09 cerelenius: theres very little federal reserve notes

07:37:17 mjr_: you said "every dollar is a debt, it can only be created through debt"

07:37:20 cerelenius: its all bank credit

07:37:21 mjr_: thats nice

07:37:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.06089999 = 0.609 BTC [+]

07:37:28 cerelenius: yes theres 2 ways to create dollars

07:37:29 mjr_: you said dollars couldn't exist without debt

07:37:31 cerelenius: commercial banks

07:37:33 mjr_: i just proved you wrong

07:37:33 cerelenius: and fed

07:37:35 mjr_: so...

07:37:37 cerelenius: BOTH do it via lending

07:37:40 mjr_: nope

07:37:41 cerelenius: mjr lol no you didnt

07:37:42 mjr_: fed buys

07:37:48 mjr_: not creates by lending

07:37:48 MisterE: where you think the money for QE is coming from?

07:37:58 cerelenius: when the federal reserve orders dollars in physical format

07:38:02 mjr_: they pay for them

07:38:05 MisterE: they dont

07:38:06 cerelenius: they require an asset posted to them

07:38:08 mjr_: they def do

07:38:12 MisterE: nobody uses physical at that level

07:38:14 cerelenius: they do not print blindly lol

07:38:20 cerelenius: misterE yes exactly

07:38:20 mjr_: they pay all costs to manufacture or mint

07:38:21 MisterE: the discount window is all 0s and 1s

07:38:23 cerelenius: its all bank credit

07:38:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.061 = 0.122 BTC [+]

07:38:28 mjr_: thats nice

07:38:33 mjr_: but there are dollars not created via debt

07:38:34 mjr_: basically

07:38:35 cerelenius: every single dollar in existence is backed by debt

07:38:37 mjr_: which was my point

07:38:41 mjr_: no its not

07:38:46 mjr_: a printed dollar

07:38:48 cerelenius: mjr the physical dollars are backed by fed assets(debt)

07:38:48 mjr_: bought by the fed

07:38:50 mjr_: is not a debt

07:38:57 mjr_: no...it is not

07:39:01 cerelenius: they only buy printed dollars when a bank rqurests them

07:39:06 cerelenius: and they have to post an asset to back it

07:39:19 cerelenius: like if you want 100bil of printed dollars you have to post 100bil of tier 1 capital assets to the fed

07:39:22 cerelenius: THEN they make the order

07:39:25 cerelenius: its always zero sum

07:39:26 mjr_: ok

07:39:27 mjr_: sure

07:39:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00088221 = 20.1585 BTC [-]

07:39:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00539863 = 0.5399 BTC [+] {4}

07:39:42 MisterE: are you saying the sum total of assets denominated in USD is less than the sum total of USD denominated debt?

07:39:42 mjr_: so you are saying that we have a fully backed currency

07:39:45 cerelenius: mjr i already told you look at the fed balance sheet its painfully obvious

07:39:49 cerelenius: mjr: yes by debt.

07:39:50 mjr_: i don't care

07:39:55 mjr_: go look at gox's balance sheet

07:40:00 cerelenius: misterE: yes.

07:40:04 mjr_: it is a piece of paper made by people

07:40:08 mjr_: not like handed down by moses

07:40:11 mjr_: you do know that right

07:40:12 MisterE: it's all about trust

07:40:14 cerelenius: misterE: total debt+ interest always exceeds available dollars

07:40:19 MisterE: nothing matters but trust

07:40:21 mjr_: yes obviously

07:40:21 cerelenius: thats why the fed needs QE

07:40:25 mjr_: this is all obvious

07:40:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.0053995 = 0.459 BTC [+]

07:40:31 mjr_: but all irrelevant

07:40:35 mjr_: boviously

07:40:38 cerelenius: new dollars must constantly be created to pay off old debts

07:40:45 mjr_: i told you that if i gave you $5, your debt is my asset

07:40:47 Vexual: this is like nubbins music

07:40:47 cerelenius: because we dont have money in the traditional sense

07:40:49 mjr_: no they don't

07:40:53 mjr_: that is not true

07:40:57 cerelenius: yes it is.

07:40:57 mjr_: and obviously not true

07:40:59 mjr_: ok

07:41:06 mjr_: here is the most trivial example

07:41:11 mjr_: there is 100 dollars total

07:41:13 MisterE: sorry but he's starting to make sense

07:41:13 mjr_: i lend it to you

07:41:13 cerelenius: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TCMDO

07:41:14 ozbot: All Sectors; Credit Market Instruments; Liability, Level (TCMDO) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

07:41:18 cerelenius: look

07:41:23 mjr_: you work for 100 a hour

07:41:25 cerelenius: this has to go up FOREVER

07:41:28 cerelenius: or else the system implodes

07:41:29 mjr_: after one hour your debt is paid

07:41:33 cerelenius: see how it dipped in 2008?

07:41:34 MisterE: we're not even talking about personal liabilities yet

07:41:36 mjr_: sorry just not true

07:41:50 MisterE: most people are mortgaged to 10x their 10 year net worth

07:41:50 mjr_: if you had to pay the debt NOW then it would be impossible without creating more

07:41:54 cerelenius: look at that 08 dip and it nearly blew out the entire system

07:41:57 mjr_: but debts have the interesting factor of time

07:42:00 Vexual: cerelenius, you're a two toned fuckstick

07:42:01 mjr_: meaining velocity of money

07:42:06 mjr_: can handle interest

07:42:19 cerelenius: MisterE: i hope im making sense to you because mjr is on a different planet.

07:42:24 mjr_: in other words, 100 can circulate to pay 100,000 worth of needs

07:42:34 mjr_: lol

07:42:36 mjr_: this is so basic

07:42:42 MisterE: you both are on differerent planets lol

07:42:44 mjr_: i don't even understand your point

07:42:50 mjr_: sure, money is created via debt

07:42:50 MisterE: I'm just running back and forth in The Enterprise

07:42:52 mjr_: who cares

07:43:02 cerelenius: mjr go back to buttonwood meetings with your btc lol

07:43:03 mjr_: why does that matter at all

07:43:06 cerelenius: you are clueless

07:43:17 mjr_: ok...what was your point again?

07:43:17 Vexual: you're pointless

07:43:18 cerelenius: the end game is hyper deflation on a scale not scene in 500 years

07:43:21 mjr_: lol

07:43:23 mjr_: whatever

07:43:24 cerelenius: its not going to be hyperinflation

07:43:26 mjr_: sounds fun

07:43:30 mjr_: but i meant in our lives

07:43:34 mjr_: what is your point

07:43:43 MisterE: no matter how it ends we all lose

07:43:46 mjr_: you can create money using debt and NOT hyperinflate

07:43:54 mjr_: or you can hyperinflate

07:43:55 MisterE: the soviet union was far better prepared for a crash than the US is

07:43:59 mjr_: the creation method is irrelevant

07:44:04 cerelenius: when credit is first created its inflationary for the rest of its life its deflationary

07:44:04 MisterE: everything was already state owned

07:44:32 mjr_: i seriously don't see why you are talking about this, so maybe i missed your main point?

07:44:39 mjr_: dollars are USED as tokens

07:44:41 cerelenius: my point is all bitcoin will do

07:44:42 MisterE: mjr_: you don't think the current syetm is sustainable do you?

07:44:45 mjr_: in our USE of them they have nothing to do with debt

07:44:46 cerelenius: is make a tiny tiny %

07:44:52 cerelenius: sure it does mjr

07:44:59 mjr_: ok, i buy a sandwhich

07:45:00 cerelenius: someone is constantly in need of dollars to pay debt

07:45:02 cerelenius: its ALL debt related

07:45:03 mjr_: the price is set on the open market

07:45:05 mjr_: it isn't

07:45:11 mjr_: and that is where your point gets stupid

07:45:11 MisterE: it's justmore currency

07:45:12 mjr_: i think

07:45:16 cerelenius: thats how credit currencies have a bid

07:45:26 cerelenius: its not becuase the government says so lol.

07:45:29 Vexual: ;;lasers

07:45:29 gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*

07:45:32 cerelenius: its becuase of debt. theres always a shortage of dollars

07:45:38 mjr_: again, irrelelevant point

07:45:42 cerelenius: debt is denominated in dollars so you need them

07:45:43 mjr_: there is no shortage of dollars

07:45:49 mjr_: if you owe someone sure

07:45:49 cerelenius: there always is

07:45:51 mjr_: i don't

07:45:52 cerelenius: thats why everyone is broke

07:45:53 MisterE: BTC is different because the community decides on value without government influence

07:45:54 mjr_: so i don't see why

07:46:01 mjr_: same as dollars

07:46:04 cerelenius: misterE: btc is a commodity

07:46:05 mjr_: if you were to sell your car

07:46:07 cerelenius: virtual commodity

07:46:09 Vexual: youre broke, you can't afford to make a graph

07:46:13 mjr_: how many dollars do you HAVE to accept

07:46:27 cerelenius: mjr: all dollars exist via debt. do you understand this concept

07:46:27 mjr_: none, you can pick whatever number you want

07:46:28 Vexual: wankhole

07:46:30 mjr_: yes

07:46:31 mjr_: so who cares

07:46:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 371 @ 0.00539919 = 2.0031 BTC [-] {5}

07:46:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+]

07:46:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.47 = 1.88 BTC [-] {3}

07:46:38 mjr_: that is irrelevant

07:46:38 mjr_: for me selling my car

07:46:40 cerelenius: total debt + interest surpasses all available dollars at a given time

07:46:44 cerelenius: meaning there is a shortage of dollars

07:46:45 mjr_: again who cares

07:46:50 mjr_: as long as i have some, who cares

07:46:52 cerelenius: thats why they have value

07:46:53 cerelenius: scarcity

07:46:54 mjr_: no

07:47:00 MisterE: eventually tha check comes due

07:47:03 mjr_: they have "value" because someone is willing to take them

07:47:05 cerelenius: yes misterE

07:47:09 MisterE: you can blow up bubbles in the mean time

07:47:13 cerelenius: perpetual debt is impossible

07:47:16 MisterE: like the S&Ls

07:47:20 MisterE: and big bangks

07:47:21 mjr_: look...lets say i owe 50 dollars

07:47:22 cerelenius: because everything in nature has a beginning and an end

07:47:22 Vexual: i al comes out in the wash

07:47:23 MisterE: even GM

07:47:26 cerelenius: compound interest has no end

07:47:30 cerelenius: compound debt*

07:47:32 mjr_: and you "forgive" that debt if i do you a favotr

07:47:45 cerelenius: mjr banks cant forgive debt lol

07:47:48 cerelenius: theyd be insolvent

07:47:49 mjr_: they can

07:47:51 cerelenius: no they cant

07:47:52 mjr_: and they do

07:47:54 mjr_: yes they can

07:47:57 MisterE: in the end we'll knock 4 or 6 zeroes off of the end and it will be business as usual :p

07:47:59 mjr_: do you not live in real life

07:48:09 MisterE: they do

07:48:09 cerelenius: a bank can take loses on max 1-2% of total debt

07:48:09 mjr_: do you not use your eyes?

07:48:12 MisterE: they get tax credit

07:48:12 mjr_: ok...

07:48:18 cerelenius: in the united states about 2.5% of mortgage holders defaulted

07:48:19 mjr_: so they CAN forgive it

07:48:25 cerelenius: and that caused the system to be insolvent

07:48:28 cerelenius: no they cant.

07:48:28 Vexual: 4 mental patients walk into a bar

07:48:31 mjr_: this is all irrelevant

07:48:31 mjr_: who cares

07:48:31 MisterE: banks claim writeoffs for written down debt

07:48:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3550 @ 0.00088225 = 3.132 BTC [+]

07:48:46 cerelenius: misterE; they can only write down a tiny % of it before they are insolvent.

07:48:51 mjr_: exactly

07:48:51 mjr_: there are accounting rules for doing exactly that

07:48:51 mjr_: allowance for bad accounts

07:48:57 Vexual: ill have the beef

07:49:00 cerelenius: lol yea 2008 was accounting rules

07:49:03 cerelenius: mjr go back to school

07:49:10 mjr_: what is your point

07:49:10 mjr_: they CAN and DO forgive debts

07:49:10 MisterE: right

07:49:12 mjr_: which is what i said

07:49:13 MisterE: since reserve requirements are a pittance

07:49:13 cerelenius: 2008 bank liabilities exceeded assets

07:49:18 mjr_: you said they CAN'T and DON'T

07:49:20 cerelenius: there are no reserve requirements

07:49:25 cerelenius: there havent been for 30 years

07:49:27 mjr_: wow you are dumb

07:49:42 mjr_: if you were selling your car...how would this matter to you?

07:49:42 MisterE: yea there is

07:49:45 cerelenius: "reserve" means a tier 1 asset which is a US government bond

07:49:53 mjr_: which is payable in...

07:49:54 mjr_: dollars

07:49:56 cerelenius: misterE lol no there isnt, the fed hasnt set reserve requirements since the 80's

07:49:59 mjr_: so it is a big circle jerk

07:50:01 MisterE: currency reserves

07:50:03 MisterE: 10%

07:50:07 cerelenius: mjr: yes its a form of check kiting

07:50:11 mjr_: nice

07:50:13 mjr_: i don't care

07:50:18 mjr_: i really really don't care

07:50:18 cerelenius: misterE; LOL not a single bank in the US or europe has 10% currency reserves

07:50:21 KRS-One: sup mjr_

07:50:25 mjr_: what up KRS-One

07:50:29 cerelenius: they have closer to 0.5%

07:50:31 KRS-One: shorting this bitch =D

07:50:31 mjr_: hows it been

07:50:34 mjr_: me too

07:50:35 mjr_: up a bit

07:50:38 KRS-One: haha

07:50:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.11996645 BTC [-]

07:50:46 cerelenius: mjr you will always be poor

07:50:50 mjr_: i hate people who are not pragmatic

07:50:50 MisterE: I think we have seen the bottom today boys

07:51:07 mjr_: you haven't answered how empiracally this would be any different when trying to sell a car

07:51:12 Vexual: cerelenius, where can i sinect in your kak?

07:51:13 mjr_: or buy a sandwich

07:51:32 mjr_: i want either A) a certain amount of bitocoin, or B) a certain number of dollars

07:51:35 mjr_: identical

07:51:36 cerelenius: the smartest guy in here is the one with the largest stage that inflates in value when all the dumbasses do work

07:51:39 cerelenius: mircea popescu

07:51:46 cerelenius: he knows the game

07:51:53 Vexual: yes, hes very handsome, but thats not all

07:51:55 mjr_: lol

07:52:02 cerelenius: mjr your a tool.

07:52:04 KRS-One: haha

07:52:06 cerelenius: and youll always be one

07:52:09 mjr_: thats nice

07:52:20 mjr_: you have fun with your theories

07:52:26 mjr_: i'll keep living in the real world

07:52:29 cerelenius: you think running around buttonwood trees with your iphone and 0.001btc matters

07:52:32 mjr_: glad i don't have to share it with you

07:52:44 mjr_: well...unlike gox we have never been hacked

07:52:49 mjr_: and i dont even know who you are

07:52:52 cerelenius: you need something to take first

07:52:54 mjr_: but i guess you know who i am

07:52:58 cerelenius: before you can be hacked

07:53:14 mjr_: i've never seen you around here before

07:53:15 Vexual: ill take your moms xanax

07:53:17 cerelenius: mjr arent you that buttonwood guy?

07:53:21 mjr_: and you obviously aren't smart enough to be a part of the convo

07:53:24 mjr_: yep

07:53:29 mjr_: like i said you know who i am

07:53:37 cerelenius: what convo lol everyone in here is clueless except 1-2 guys

07:53:37 mjr_: satoshi square, blah blah blah

07:53:48 cerelenius: mjr: i come in here once in awhile to break mirceas balls

07:53:49 mjr_: like i said

07:53:59 mjr_: you are mixing up primatry market with secondary market

07:54:05 mjr_: i could give two shits about how tokens are created

07:54:10 cerelenius: go back to school

07:54:11 mjr_: its what you do after that that matters

07:54:29 mjr_: you treat it like a "debt" and you will never be repayed

07:54:31 mjr_: i could care less

07:54:34 cerelenius: it cant be repayed

07:54:35 mjr_: i treat it like a token

07:54:39 cerelenius: i already explained why lol

07:54:39 MisterE: not when the creator given them with a promise to pay back

07:54:41 mjr_: and it works like a token

07:54:47 cerelenius: exactly misterE

07:54:56 cerelenius: gold was what paid debts off in the past

07:54:58 mjr_: i could care less what the creator said or wants to do

07:55:02 Vexual: its not xanax

07:55:03 cerelenius: gold was VITAL

07:55:10 mjr_: if i want a sandwich, i ask how many dollars

07:55:13 MisterE: it's over only a matter of time

07:55:15 cerelenius: they replace gold with the US government bond

07:55:16 mjr_: and give them that many if it is important

07:55:20 KRS-One: cerelenius: looks like it didnt break resistance, maybe we will indeed see a new low now

07:55:33 cerelenius: KRS-One: i dont think we take out the late december lows

07:55:34 mjr_: again, completely irrelevant

07:55:43 cerelenius: 380

07:55:43 MisterE: soon as oil is denominated in another currency the jug will be up

07:55:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.462995 = 3.704 BTC [-] {2}

07:55:52 MisterE: oil is all USD got left

07:56:06 KRS-One: hmm right

07:56:10 cerelenius: misterE: as bad as the USD is it will be the last currency to collapse

07:56:15 mjr_: true

07:56:27 mjr_: but that is where i think you get ridiculous

07:56:32 mjr_: like, if no more dollars are used

07:56:34 cerelenius: KRS-One: despite all this shitty news and bad atmosphere we havent even exceeded late december lows

07:56:35 MisterE: yea people cant diversify

07:56:37 mjr_: we will never be able to obtain things

07:56:48 mjr_: like, guess commerce is done?

07:56:52 mjr_: we just find other tokens

07:56:55 KRS-One: cerelenius so i'm thinking lower

07:56:58 mjr_: and they work pretty much the same

07:56:59 cerelenius: well yea it freezes up for a short term.

07:57:10 jurov: alternatively, we can just go into prolonged slump, that will end when we diversify away from oil

07:57:15 cerelenius: mjr: lol its not the end of the world

07:57:19 mjr_: i know its not

07:57:25 mjr_: my point is it's irrelevant

07:57:29 mjr_: to what people do

07:57:33 mjr_: and will continue to do

07:57:38 MisterE: jurov: I wish, what I really wish is we would pay the real cost for the oil

07:57:39 cerelenius: mjr: these types of collapses have been occuring every since capitalism was introduced, just the scale of them has been getting progressively wrose

07:57:41 cerelenius: worse

07:57:42 mjr_: treat it as debt if you like

07:57:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.11064728 = 0.6639 BTC [-] {2}

07:57:47 mjr_: i really don't care

07:57:52 mjr_: again i don't care

07:58:00 cerelenius: you will when your bank account is not accessible

07:58:09 cerelenius: im sure your bitcoins will save you then

07:58:09 MisterE: yea the size of the bubbles are bigger and bigger

07:58:10 mjr_: if you hold dollars i guess

07:58:15 mjr_: i don't care

07:58:21 MisterE: now we're inflating countries like Ireland and Greece

07:58:22 cerelenius: paper dollars will be the only thing that have value under that scenario

07:58:31 cerelenius: PAPER

07:58:32 mjr_: cool...what do we use at satoshi square again?

07:58:34 cerelenius: not electronic

07:58:38 mjr_: oh thats right

07:58:40 mjr_: paper money

07:58:40 MisterE: maybe they will keep you warm if you stuff them inside your clothes

07:58:42 mjr_: and bitcoin

07:58:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.0053975 = 0.5236 BTC [-] {3}

07:58:48 mjr_: cuz that is tokens

07:58:50 mjr_: which don't rely on shit from anyone

07:58:54 mjr_: which is why i use them

07:58:56 cerelenius: well bitcoin is completely different then the dollar

07:58:59 cerelenius: its not a liability

07:58:59 mjr_: cuz its maybe too fucking obvious

07:59:06 mjr_: oh, so i can't buy stuff with it

07:59:11 mjr_: i can't give it to people

07:59:14 mjr_: i can't be paid for my time

07:59:15 cerelenius: the problem with bitcoin is saleability

07:59:15 mjr_: in what way

07:59:17 cerelenius: it has none

07:59:20 mjr_: is it different

07:59:24 cerelenius: hence why it moves 40% in a day.

07:59:26 mjr_: i just sold today

07:59:29 mjr_: so it can be sold

07:59:36 cerelenius: yes but its extremely illiquid

07:59:39 mjr_: i have empiraccally proven that

07:59:41 mjr_: ok...

07:59:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 116 @ 0.00534929 = 0.6205 BTC [-] {4}

07:59:49 mjr_: illiquid != can't be sold

08:00:00 mjr_: so maybe you just don't get these fundamental points

08:00:03 cerelenius: well i like using saleability, the more btc you throw at the market what happens?

08:00:06 mjr_: i sold some

08:00:07 cerelenius: it collapses

08:00:09 mjr_: guess what happens

08:00:15 mjr_: when i sell a lot of dollars for euros?

08:00:19 cerelenius: nothing

08:00:22 Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVyS9JwtFoQ

08:00:22 ozbot: Pixies - Debaser (Official Video) - YouTube

08:00:23 mjr_: yep

08:00:24 cerelenius: dollar has extreme saleability

08:00:27 mjr_: fixed exchange rate

08:00:30 mjr_: obviously no one trades forex

08:00:34 mjr_: and forex risk doesn't exist

08:00:37 mjr_: sorry, you are right

08:00:37 cerelenius: you need to sell hundreds of billions to move it 0.5%

08:00:38 Apocalyptic: what ?

08:00:39 mjr_: i am silly

08:00:41 mjr_: ok...

08:00:44 mjr_: so you DO move the price

08:00:50 Apocalyptic: ofc you do

08:00:50 cerelenius: yes of course

08:00:52 cerelenius: slightly

08:00:54 mjr_: i like how you agree with me every time

08:01:02 cerelenius: bitcoin you move the price with a tiny lot

08:01:06 mjr_: ok

08:01:10 cerelenius: and the saleability decreases as you keep moving

08:01:12 mjr_: difference of scale not kind

08:01:19 mjr_: same with anything else

08:01:20 cerelenius: you can get rid of dollars at any time of the day

08:01:25 cerelenius: you can walk down the street and get rid of all of them

08:01:27 mjr_: i can get rid of bitcoin at any time of day

08:01:29 cerelenius: thats called saleability

08:01:32 mjr_: yes

08:01:32 cerelenius: no you cant lol

08:01:35 mjr_: and you can do it with bitcoin

08:01:36 cerelenius: you need a willing bidder

08:01:38 mjr_: ah

08:01:42 mjr_: so if you hold euros in the us

08:01:45 mjr_: are they "saleablae"

08:01:45 Vexual: youre projecting

08:01:46 cerelenius: dollar has near infinite bidders

08:01:49 KRS-One: ah shit i just posted this to -analysis http://i.imgur.com/Qsc61NR.gif

08:01:50 mjr_: thas nice

08:01:54 KRS-One: isnt it

08:01:58 cerelenius: mjr you can walk down the street and sell your dollars for products

08:02:07 mjr_: ok...

08:02:08 mjr_: what is your point

08:02:09 cerelenius: thats saleability

08:02:15 cerelenius: why are you referencing the euro

08:02:19 mjr_: i can walk down the street and buy products for bitocin

08:02:21 cerelenius: you never have to touch the euro to get rid of dollars

08:02:25 mjr_: so i am missing something i guess

08:02:25 cerelenius: mjr LOL where?

08:02:28 cerelenius: shrems bar?

08:02:30 mjr_: in panama

08:02:36 cerelenius: hotdogs?

08:02:41 Vexual: 700k and a fresh passport

08:02:45 cerelenius: the price of them collapses if you start selling

08:02:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 24 @ 0.11052505 = 2.6526 BTC [-] {6}

08:03:08 jurov: cerelenius: you'd have problems with paper dollars of higher denominations, too

08:03:09 mjr_: terrae

08:03:09 mjr_: my fave restaurant

08:03:09 mjr_: thats where i am

08:03:09 mjr_: btw

08:03:09 mjr_: not nyc

08:03:13 mjr_: but sure, there i could go to evr

08:03:13 mjr_: or use bitcoin on foodler

08:03:14 mjr_: or use gyft

08:03:14 mjr_: same as the dollar yes

08:03:16 mjr_: or antyhing else

08:03:19 Vexual: man who walk sideways through security always going to bang cock

08:03:25 mjr_: anything when you sell enough, goes down in value

08:03:27 jurov: and don't let me start about credit cards

08:03:31 cerelenius: mjr the price starts collapsing

08:03:33 mjr_: since it means demand has gotten smaller

08:03:35 cerelenius: the larger size you do

08:03:38 mjr_: yes, just like it would with dollars

08:03:43 cerelenius: no it wont

08:03:45 mjr_: or anything on earht

08:03:50 cerelenius: theres nobody on the planet

08:03:54 cerelenius: that can tank the dollar market

08:03:55 mjr_: ok, say everyone in the world does not want dollars for oil

08:04:01 mjr_: they won't accept dollars for oil

08:04:03 cerelenius: someone else will need them

08:04:05 mjr_: no change to the dollars value?

08:04:05 cerelenius: to pay debt off.

08:04:08 mjr_: no

08:04:10 cerelenius: nope

08:04:11 MisterE: freefalling

08:04:13 mjr_: since debt can be denominated in anything

08:04:19 mjr_: i can have a euro backed devt

08:04:22 mjr_: or a yen backed debt

08:04:23 cerelenius: majority of debt is denominated in dollars

08:04:24 MisterE: when stamp hits 425 I'll buy

08:04:33 mjr_: that is something called "competing currencies" you should look it up

08:04:37 mjr_: thats nice

08:04:43 MisterE: oh will you 2 get a room already :p

08:04:45 cerelenius: misterE you missed your chance

08:04:47 KRS-One: MisterE: you wont want to do that

08:04:50 KRS-One: lower..

08:04:52 mjr_: you are saying "this is the way it HAS to be" and proving that "this is the way it IS"

08:04:57 MisterE: really?

08:04:59 KRS-One: i think

08:05:01 MisterE: too uch support at 400

08:05:03 mjr_: if no one wants dollars

08:05:07 mjr_: the dollar is worthless

08:05:09 cerelenius: the bottom was in

08:05:10 KRS-One: recheck your analysis

08:05:13 mjr_: if no one wants bitcoin, bitcoin is worthless

08:05:17 mjr_: in other words

08:05:20 MisterE: if it breaks 400 it's a rout

08:05:26 mjr_: the value is set by the supply and demand of the item in question

08:05:27 cerelenius: tripple bottom off the late december lows

08:05:47 KRS-One: cerelenius: there is over $11 million loaned out on long positions..they're going to get squeezed out

08:05:51 mjr_: regardless of whether it was issued by a govt, mined on a blockchain, or came out of my ass

08:05:54 MisterE: I dont think traditional SA applies to CC charts

08:06:09 mjr_: lol

08:06:13 cerelenius: KRS-One: what site

08:06:18 KRS-One: sry bitfinex

08:06:19 mjr_: bitfinex of course

08:06:27 mjr_: is there another site with lending?

08:06:31 MisterE: winkidex

08:06:34 KRS-One: i think btc.sx

08:06:42 KRS-One: 10:1!

08:06:47 KRS-One: nuts huh

08:06:48 mjr_: oh really

08:06:49 mjr_: crazy

08:06:53 mjr_: can you short 10:1

08:06:54 mjr_: ?

08:06:56 mjr_: :)

08:06:59 MisterE: that'll get you in trouble

08:07:01 KRS-One: yeah i wouldnt touch it though

08:07:05 mjr_: me neither

08:07:10 cerelenius: doesnt it auto liquidate

08:07:10 mjr_: the variance is too high

08:07:13 mjr_: it would

08:07:15 KRS-One: no

08:07:21 KRS-One: it'll hodl

08:07:21 mjr_: bitfinex does

08:07:26 cerelenius: what happens when your underwater then?

08:07:33 mjr_: trims positions, no?

08:07:38 cerelenius: thats what i just asked

08:07:40 Vexual: cie

08:07:43 KRS-One: hmm check i could be wrong

08:07:54 mjr_: i am betting they have some sort of autoliquidation

08:07:56 cerelenius: krs one you cant do 10:1 shorting with btc where are they borrowing them from

08:08:01 cerelenius: what 0.1 btc

08:08:01 mjr_: there is no other way to avoid that scenario

08:08:14 cerelenius: you can only do btc in tiny sizes

08:08:23 mjr_: i mean, you CAN do whatever you want

08:08:23 cerelenius: its too illiquid for anything else

08:08:27 Vexual: you have personality disorder

08:08:33 cerelenius: no you cant nobody will lend you 10x btc

08:08:37 cerelenius: theyd go bankrupt

08:08:39 mjr_: sure they would

08:08:46 KRS-One: check for yourself

08:08:56 cerelenius: where?

08:08:57 mjr_: you seem to use the word can and can't in strange ways

08:08:59 cerelenius: im talking about size

08:09:03 cerelenius: 500btc 1000btc

08:09:03 mjr_: that aren't the ways the rest of us use them

08:09:05 cerelenius: not 0.005

08:09:07 mjr_: yeah...

08:09:07 Vexual: big, all over

08:09:14 mjr_: so, i can go bankrupt, right?

08:09:21 mjr_: which means i can lend coins in whatever size i wanted

08:09:24 cerelenius: mjr someone giving you 10:1 leverage

08:09:25 mjr_: i WOULDN'T

08:09:32 cerelenius: why not

08:09:33 mjr_: that is different from CAN'T

08:09:36 cerelenius: becuase youd go bust dumbass

08:09:39 mjr_: like i said variance is too high

08:09:49 mjr_: peaks and troughs

08:10:01 mjr_: i think that actually is why we disagree

08:10:04 cerelenius: your an idiot, bitcoins main issue is piss poor liquidity and overall tiny market

08:10:15 mjr_: because you keep using the word HAS TO and CAN and CANNOT and IMPOSSIBLE

08:10:18 Vexual: you're begging for 50k

08:10:20 mjr_: to things that i have seen happen

08:10:27 mjr_: it cannot be impossible if i've seen it

08:10:33 Vexual: weird mother fucker

08:10:34 mjr_: or else we just throw logic right out

08:10:36 cerelenius: listen pal, every credit instrument in bitcoin will bust out sooner then later

08:10:40 mjr_: yeah

08:10:42 cerelenius: thats what happens under a deflationary system

08:10:46 mjr_: have you heard of this thing called the pink sheets

08:10:50 mjr_: its an otc market

08:10:55 cerelenius: your prof tell you that?

08:10:56 mjr_: it also has poor liquidity

08:11:06 mjr_: so that means equities will never work

08:11:08 cerelenius: yea its the junk market.

08:11:10 mjr_: because otc markets are illiquid

08:11:15 cerelenius: lol 99% of the otc market is junk

08:11:18 mjr_: ok

08:11:20 mjr_: i don't care

08:11:27 mjr_: you are saying that because of POOR exchanges

08:11:33 mjr_: bitcoin MUST be illiquid

08:11:38 cerelenius: i didnt say why

08:11:40 cerelenius: im saying it is

08:11:41 mjr_: there is no world in which bitcoin is not illiquid

08:11:45 mjr_: i agree

08:11:54 mjr_: but since i have the ability to picture other markets

08:11:56 mjr_: which have matured

08:12:03 mjr_: i can picture a market for bitcoin that is not ililquid

08:12:12 mjr_: and that does function efficiently

08:12:19 mjr_: like for example forex

08:12:22 cerelenius: bitcoin is too illiquid to function as anything other then a speculative tool, in terms of money in only functions as such in cybercrime for example because there are NO alternatives.

08:12:26 mjr_: right NOW

08:12:33 mjr_: but you just said that you were talking about the way it is now

08:12:42 mjr_: it could be different

08:12:46 mjr_: it has been different

08:12:48 mjr_: it has changed a lot

08:12:53 cerelenius: only thing giving btc liquidity is cybercrime

08:12:56 mjr_: and you seem to think that time doesn't exist

08:12:58 mjr_: ah

08:13:01 cerelenius: its not nerds meeting up with pennys underneath a tree

08:13:02 mjr_: of course

08:13:05 mjr_: so playboy

08:13:07 mjr_: tigerdirect

08:13:08 cerelenius: trading 50 dollars

08:13:12 mjr_: which tree do they meet up at?

08:13:14 cerelenius: tigerdirect is zero sum

08:13:15 Vexual: ah theres only one fuck this mad

08:13:28 Vexual: ciao bellas

08:13:29 mjr_: you said "cannot function"

08:13:30 cerelenius: they dont accept btc they accept bitpay

08:13:34 mjr_: same diff

08:13:36 cerelenius: they settle in DOLLARS

08:13:38 cerelenius: not bitcoin

08:13:41 mjr_: since I AM PAYING WITH BITCOIN

08:13:50 cerelenius: yes its no different then selling them at an exchange for usd

08:13:53 cerelenius: and then paying with usd

08:13:54 mjr_: i could give two shits what happens between me paying bitcoin and getting the product i want

08:13:58 mjr_: thats nice

08:14:02 mjr_: what did i pay with?

08:14:06 cerelenius: tigerdirect means zero.

08:14:07 mjr_: what did i get?

08:14:11 mjr_: i again, don't care

08:14:17 mjr_: i pay with the currency i chose

08:14:20 mjr_: and get the product i wanted

08:14:40 mjr_: you don't understand the diference between today's bitcoin and the inherent properties of bitcoin

08:14:49 Vexual: cerelenius, can you give me a quote on dogs?

08:14:51 mjr_: bitcoin is not limited to illiquidity

08:14:58 cerelenius: dogs?

08:14:59 mjr_: it is illiquid right now

08:15:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.0053136 = 0.4517 BTC [+] {4}

08:15:10 cerelenius: mjr: it will always be illiquid.

08:15:14 mjr_: like for example twitter shares were illiquid

08:15:15 Vexual: yes, ive got some things here and im trying to decide

08:15:25 mjr_: or facebook, and now, they are MORE liquid

08:15:32 mjr_: funny how things change...

08:15:35 mjr_: ugh

08:15:38 cerelenius: yea and in bitcoin they dont.

08:15:40 mjr_: you are such an idiot...

08:15:41 mjr_: of course

08:15:47 mjr_: it is JUST as illiquid as it was in 2009

08:15:49 cerelenius: bitcoin will always be a niche place

08:15:50 mjr_: obviuosly

08:16:00 mjr_: you said that its state of liquidity is fixed

08:16:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 42 @ 0.00539182 = 0.2265 BTC [+] {4}

08:16:07 cerelenius: no

08:16:08 mjr_: or are you going to change what you said again

08:16:10 mjr_: oh ok

08:16:12 cerelenius: its state of liquidity will always be poor

08:16:15 mjr_: so it can become MORE liquid

08:16:24 mjr_: at what point will it cease being able to become more liquid

08:16:24 cerelenius: it will never be liquid enough

08:16:34 mjr_: what is its inherent liquidity barrier

08:16:38 cerelenius: look its 2014

08:16:40 mjr_: since there must be one

08:16:42 dignork: cerelenius enough for what?

08:16:44 cerelenius: and we have 40% daily swings occuring

08:16:46 mjr_: since at some point it cannot become more liquid

08:16:48 mjr_: thats nice

08:16:50 mjr_: i don't care

08:16:57 mjr_: could bitcoin become MORE liquid tomorrow

08:17:04 mjr_: if it can, then it could keep doing so...

08:17:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 610 @ 0.00539989 = 3.2939 BTC [+] {3}

08:17:10 mjr_: and that is what you don't get

08:17:14 cerelenius: dignork: enough for it to be used as settlement without having to go through shit like bitpay

08:17:19 mjr_: the issues you bring up have nothing to do with bitcoin

08:17:29 mjr_: but rather immature markets for ANYTHING

08:17:34 cerelenius: nobody outside of cybercrime(gambling,porn,frauds) settles in bitcoin

08:17:40 cerelenius: and those that do do it from necessity

08:17:45 cerelenius: not because they want to lol

08:17:51 mjr_: lol

08:17:54 cerelenius: im not talking about your little nerd with 0.01 balance

08:18:01 mjr_: your argument for the dollar was its "necessity"

08:18:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 24 @ 0.00539989 = 0.1296 BTC [+] {4}

08:18:07 dignork: cerelenius in some countries you can't settle for USD, you have to go through exchange, so what?

08:18:07 mjr_: because we couldn't have debts without it

08:18:13 mjr_: yeah

08:18:14 Apocalyptic: cerelenius, i lol'd

08:18:16 KRS-One: cerelenius: according to btc.sx faq: For each position opened, btc.sx will execute an open market order at over x10 the value of your deposit.

08:18:20 mjr_: there is this thing called "international trade"

08:18:29 cerelenius: dignork: right

08:18:31 Vexual: get off the couch cerel

08:18:33 mjr_: you do know they don't use dollars everywhere

08:18:34 KRS-One: It is important to remember that losses can also be multiplied however losses will never exceed your deposit.

08:18:35 mjr_: right?

08:18:46 mjr_: in other words they will autoliquidate you

08:18:47 cerelenius: dignork: im talking about nobody settles for anything other then fiat at the moment in btc, OTHER then those groups i outlined

08:18:50 KRS-One: yea

08:18:59 cerelenius: krs-one: yea so they have some protection in place

08:19:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 650 @ 0.0054 = 3.51 BTC [+] {4}

08:19:11 KRS-One: there is also no control over this =/

08:19:13 mjr_: protection? yeah, you can only lose all your money

08:19:18 cerelenius: tigerdirect adopted bitpay not bitcoin lol

08:19:21 mjr_: you are fully "protected"

08:19:23 dignork: cerelenius i'm not a "cybercriminal" and for some transactions I settle for btc, problem?

08:19:30 mjr_: don't bother

08:19:33 cerelenius: dignork what did i say?

08:19:36 cerelenius: tiny ass ammounts

08:19:39 mjr_: for every obvious real world example

08:19:41 KRS-One: tiny

08:19:41 mjr_: he will dismiss it

08:19:49 cerelenius: the problem with adopting bitpay or coinbase

08:19:50 chetty: I settle with btc, and I am not a criminal either

08:19:55 cerelenius: is you can never offer clients huge discounts

08:19:56 mjr_: he is wrong about pretty every statement, goes back and says he didn't mean "ALL"

08:20:00 mjr_: i do as well

08:20:02 cerelenius: you can offer 1-2%

08:20:06 mjr_: we all probably settle using bitcoin

08:20:16 mjr_: mircea does

08:20:17 mjr_: jurov does

08:20:19 Vexual: wanna learn?

08:20:26 cerelenius: mircea is part of the fraud category lol

08:20:34 dignork: cerelenius nonsense, discounts are based on your sales strategy, btc or not

08:21:01 cerelenius: dignork: merchants are adopting bitpay/coinbase to tap into the btc liquidity and the free publicity they get, nobody is settling in btc outright

08:21:02 mjr_: so it seems that it is possible

08:21:02 mjr_: you see a dog swimming, you think that dogs are aquatic creatures

08:21:02 mjr_: that is the problem

08:21:02 mjr_: exactly

08:21:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00548 = 2.74 BTC [+] {4}

08:21:15 mjr_: i will sell my products for the amount of currency i want

08:21:24 mjr_: at no point have you ever shown me an example of how it is different to buy something with a dollar and a bitcoin

08:21:24 mjr_: as far as price setting

08:21:30 cerelenius: who settles in btc on a larger scale? gambling sites, porn, strange "finance" operations etc.

08:21:34 cerelenius: they do it out of necessity

08:21:35 mjr_: we listed multiple people who do settle

08:21:44 mjr_: and they only settle using dollars "out of necessity"

08:21:45 cerelenius: you listed nobody.

08:21:51 cerelenius: mircea cant use fiat

08:21:51 mjr_: ugh

08:21:54 mjr_: he can

08:21:57 cerelenius: no he cant lol

08:21:58 mjr_: and i've seen him do it

08:22:06 cerelenius: he cant run his exchange with fiat

08:22:08 mjr_: he paid for our coffees using fiat if i remember correctly

08:22:13 mjr_: he COULD

08:22:16 cerelenius: im talking about his business

08:22:16 mjr_: but he doesn't want to

08:22:31 mjr_: since the whole point is moving past fiat

08:22:31 cerelenius: mjr you are a child probably 20 years old

08:22:34 mjr_: lol

08:22:39 mjr_: your googling skills must suck

08:22:42 cerelenius: you are obvlivious

08:22:46 mjr_: you are oblicous

08:22:51 mjr_: this is simple stuff

08:22:55 mjr_: if i want to sell my car

08:22:56 cerelenius: bitcoin will never work on a large scale

08:23:01 cerelenius: you can be guaranteed that

08:23:03 mjr_: in your opinion

08:23:05 mjr_: and no ican't

08:23:12 mjr_: you cannot guarantee that

08:23:13 cerelenius: the market cap will fluctuate

08:23:15 mjr_: yes

08:23:20 mjr_: like every asset on earth

08:23:24 chetty: hey how about a bet?

08:23:25 cerelenius: between 10-50bil dependant on cybercrime

08:23:28 mjr_: it will behave like every asset on earth

08:23:36 cerelenius: price wise thats between 500-2500

08:23:38 mjr_: that is a large scale

08:23:43 mjr_: depends on what you meant

08:23:49 mjr_: since its under 10 now

08:23:53 cerelenius: the world is not running out of crypto

08:23:55 mjr_: you are talking about a 5X increase

08:24:02 Vexual: nor fiat

08:24:05 mjr_: the world isn't running out of fiat

08:24:06 mjr_: ugh

08:24:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 185 @ 0.00549555 = 1.0167 BTC [+] {2}

08:24:17 mjr_: just take everything you say, change the word bitcoin to dollar

08:24:17 cerelenius: you can come back here in 5 years

08:24:21 mjr_: and you come up with the same thing

08:24:22 cerelenius: and btc wont be far from where it is

08:24:30 mjr_: which means it won't have failed?

08:24:33 mjr_: people will still be using iut

08:24:40 cerelenius: it wont fail in the sense of going to zero

08:24:40 mjr_: they will still be settling debts

08:24:44 cerelenius: it will fail in mass adoption

08:24:48 Vexual: no bitcoiners have jumped off something high

08:24:54 cerelenius: a niche market

08:24:55 mjr_: ok

08:25:02 mjr_: you know that by your standards

08:25:05 mjr_: the dollar has failed

08:25:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC

08:25:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00549585 = 0.6045 BTC [+] {3}

08:25:16 mjr_: since the dollar has not been adopted by the vast majority of people on earth

08:25:18 cerelenius: well yes the dollar is a failure its a defaulted on promise to pay gold

08:25:21 mjr_: its a niche market

08:25:28 mjr_: but we use em

08:25:33 mjr_: and it works for now

08:25:34 cerelenius: the dollar is accepted by the vast majority lol

08:25:37 mjr_: no

08:25:38 Vexual: things change cere, the world keeps turning

08:25:45 mjr_: it isn't accepted in europe

08:25:46 mjr_: or china

08:25:49 cerelenius: the chinese yuan is defacto backed by dollars

08:25:54 dignork: cerelenius gosh, gold defaulted on promise to be a currency, your point?

08:25:54 cerelenius: via US treasury debt

08:25:56 Vexual: fuck off

08:26:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.0054989 = 2.7495 BTC [+]

08:26:23 cerelenius: dignork: the same way bitcoin will because of what i outlined earlier in the chat. a tiny tiny % of holders will be filthy rich while everyone else is filthy poor

08:26:35 cerelenius: that will always be btc

08:26:40 Vexual: juest like usd

08:26:47 cerelenius: yes

08:26:53 Vexual: its called moeny

08:26:53 cerelenius: both are different sides of the same coin

08:26:59 dignork: cerelenius this will be the case anyhow, nature laws...

08:27:07 dignork: unrelated to btc

08:27:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC

08:27:30 cerelenius: its related to btc because as people WORK hard to build the ecosystem and create purchasing power, it gets siphoned off by the large holders

08:27:35 cerelenius: its not nature laws lol

08:27:38 cerelenius: its man laws

08:27:50 Vexual: man in the image of god

08:27:52 mjr_: or japan

08:27:52 mjr_: or africa

08:27:52 mjr_: its accepted in the US

08:27:52 mjr_: which is why i think they say US on them

08:27:52 mjr_: the vast majority of people in the world may never touch a dollar

08:27:53 mjr_: or have one in a bank account

08:27:53 mjr_: so they haven't adopted it

08:27:53 mjr_: so if only a few people use bitcoin to transact their business, it'll be the same as the romanian lei

08:27:53 mjr_: which is still a currency

08:27:53 mjr_: that is used by people

08:27:53 mjr_: to buy things, sell things, and to pay off debts

08:27:53 mjr_: there is no fundamental difference so far to bitcoin, you seem to think that gox is part of bitcoin or something

08:27:53 chetty: I am curious, why come here and argue cerelenius, whats in it for you?

08:27:53 mjr_: trolls love to get fed

08:28:03 mjr_: lol

08:28:04 cerelenius: chetty: im not argueing

08:28:09 mjr_: this is ridiculous

08:28:16 mjr_: you do realize i could cease accepting dollars tomorrow right?