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Transcript for 25-03-2014, 2470 lines:

00:00:22 ninjashogun: If bitcoin is used for 100 years, will anyone who participates have to download every single transactoin, ever, down to today?

00:01:07 deadweasel: ask again in 100 yrs

00:01:19 deadweasel: notice the timestampes

00:01:32 ninjashogun: if the blockchain is already 20 GB, then in a year or two will it be like 100 GB - just to be part of the network?

00:02:46 deadweasel: the future is undetermined

00:03:00 deadweasel: you may not survive the year, nor me nor anybody elese

00:03:07 deadweasel: else*

00:03:28 jurov: ninjashogun: it will be pruned to store only most recent outputs and all the rest will be archived

00:03:53 deadweasel: you can trust him, he traveleth the time.

00:04:13 jurov: and even if not, 100GB of SSD isn't unaffordable, I hope

00:04:43 deadweasel: especially in 2yrs

00:05:02 deadweasel: ninjashogun: how old are you again?

00:05:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-]

00:05:21 jurov: btw, I'm running btc and ltc and atc nodes off one 320gb spinning rust. seems to work fine

00:05:24 ninjashogun: deadweasel, 28-32

00:06:09 ninjashogun: I'm talking with a collaborator about crypto currencies and varoius exchanges, etc.

00:06:15 ninjashogun: Does anyone here know about mastercoin?

00:06:23 ninjashogun: Are mastercoin in here (a nick) for example? etc.

00:06:32 ninjashogun: here or -otc or #bitcoin

00:06:52 Mats_cd03: huh

00:07:41 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, mastercoin. See: https://www.google.com/search?q=mastercoin

00:08:05 ninjashogun: http://www.mastercoin.org/ - http://www.mastercoinfoundation.org/

00:08:06 ozbot: Master Protocol & Mastercoin

00:08:15 CheckDavid: :)

00:08:41 Mats_cd03: 20:06 <ninjashogun> Are mastercoin in here (a nick) for example? etc. <<< huh

00:09:07 Mats_cd03: anyways people in here generally dont care about altchains

00:09:18 deadweasel: ^

00:09:29 Mats_cd03: oh whoops i must have misunderstood the idea

00:09:35 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I meant is a nick from one of the contributors in here. I should have asked in #bitcoin

00:09:45 Mats_cd03: ok

00:09:48 ninjashogun: sorry about that

00:10:30 CheckDavid: Mats_cd03: is master coin an alt chain @

00:10:41 CheckDavid: It uses the btc block chain

00:11:03 Mats_cd03: i'm confused by the website, "Mastercoin To Create New Altcoins In Bitcoin’s Block Chain" is the title of a press release

00:11:06 Mats_cd03: so: idk

00:11:39 ninjashogun: (by the way CheckDavid and I are on skype now, and we may be collaborating on the jobs thing. I talked with him for a couple of hours total, don't know him personally yet but we're on skype.)

00:11:49 ninjashogun: (I have a good impression so far.)

00:12:28 ninjashogun: This is just in the interest of full disclosure.

00:12:46 Mats_cd03: cute

00:12:53 CheckDavid: Haha

00:12:54 benkay: jurov: some days don't you feel like "fuck hardware"?

00:13:04 CheckDavid: We are cybering

00:13:25 benkay: aws has all this damn storage and compute

00:13:38 Mats_cd03: ;;ud docking

00:13:38 benkay: i know crypto on cloud is anathema but OOOOH THE TEMPTATION

00:13:39 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=docking | docking. The act of placing the head of ones penis inside the foreskin of another's penis. David and Patrick enjoyed docking immensely because of Patty's ...

00:13:39 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: docking

00:13:43 blackwhite: evening gents

00:13:48 Mats_cd03: ^ CheckDavid + ninjashogun

00:13:59 CheckDavid: <3

00:14:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00095527 = 18.1501 BTC [+] {3}

00:14:20 benkay: ;;first CheckDavid

00:14:20 gribble: Error: "first" is not a valid command.

00:14:24 Mats_cd03: mixing smegma is the most intimate moment one can share with another man

00:14:37 benkay: gribble needs a ;;first to complement ;;seen

00:14:41 Duffer1: :(

00:15:01 Mats_cd03: alright i need a drink

00:16:07 Mats_cd03: https://github.com/shaih/HElib

00:17:20 CheckDavid: Mats_cd03: but I think master coin doesn't have any alt chain

00:17:34 Mats_cd03: (useful for e-voting as per prev. discussion, and maybe even useful for reducing the size of the blockchain in the future)

00:18:01 benkay: how so reduce size of blockchain?

00:18:05 CheckDavid: If I interpreted what you meant by that properly

00:19:01 Mats_cd03: CheckDavid: i speak from a place of ignorance re: mastercoin so dont mind me

00:19:09 CheckDavid: Oh OK

00:19:29 CheckDavid: But yeah. I am not talking about just some random alt

00:20:01 CheckDavid: It's supposedly a protocol that adds a lot of value to btc

00:20:08 benkay: supposedly.

00:20:18 CheckDavid: It's definitely a protocol

00:20:36 benkay: and i guess bitcoin is just a protocol and so this thing is additively good

00:20:37 CheckDavid: And it's definitely using the btc block chain

00:21:03 CheckDavid: Now of its valuable , that's subjective as all value is

00:21:08 CheckDavid: *if

00:21:33 nubbins`: name a good movie

00:21:39 benkay: glengarry glen ross

00:21:47 CheckDavid: Pink panther

00:22:13 ninjashogun: ha, pink panther

00:22:15 ninjashogun: I was just watching that

00:23:34 cazalla: can you trade bitcoons on the massahcoin network?

00:24:45 CheckDavid: Lolol

00:25:59 Mats_cd03: benkay: pulled it out of my ass.

00:26:25 Mats_cd03: (wouldnt ever work, occurred to me without evidence)

00:28:53 nubbins`: !t h hif

00:28:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIF] 1D: 0.00047505 / 0.00048074 / 0.00050498 (131 shares, 0.06297634 BTC), 7D: 0.00039967 / 0.00047559 / 0.00051299 (9474 shares, 4.50576619 BTC), 30D: 0.00038802 / 0.0005072 / 0.00057500 (66406 shares, 33.68111884 BTC)

00:29:13 KRS-One: nubbins?

00:29:15 nubbins`: from what i can tell, they're about an order of magnitude off their trading volume predictions

00:29:30 nubbins`: hi

00:30:04 kakobrekla: /cap req -identify-msg

00:30:09 kakobrekla: bleh

00:30:56 nubbins`: hmm 3.4MB/s

00:30:56 nubbins`: i gotta say, i'm happy with my internet service

00:30:56 nubbins`: it's not often i straight-up download large files

00:31:00 nubbins`: so i don't always appreciate it

00:31:12 nubbins`: 4.2!

00:31:27 nubbins`: but this is great :D

00:32:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32333 @ 0.00095571 = 30.901 BTC [+] {2}

00:33:52 ninjashogun: http://i.minus.com/itOALVKyDoZDB.gif

00:34:06 copumpkin: man, MPOE is hot again

00:37:47 blackwhite: what do you think is the best wallet design you have seen, visually?

00:38:04 ninjashogun: blackwhite - you mean physical (like leather) wallets?

00:38:07 deadweasel: wallet.dat

00:38:22 ninjashogun: Does anyone here know aobut https://cryptostocks.com/ (in specific)?

00:38:30 ninjashogun: and what they're doing, whether trustworthy, etc

00:38:37 blackwhite: i saw http://www.hivewallet.com which is interesting

00:38:52 Apocalyptic: ninjashogun, they're full of scams

00:38:54 Duffer1: ninja you can trust them to list every scam in the space

00:40:15 Duffer1: they probably make so much money off it that they haven't yet decided to just run with the money

00:40:28 ninjashogun: let's flip it around. Would a serious company that had traditoinal real-world financing rounds (convertible note, or equity offering with shareholder's agreement with a real VC) ever list on there?

00:40:37 Duffer1: nope

00:40:43 ninjashogun: I meant to write the word "options" instead of the word "rounds"

00:40:44 ninjashogun: okay

00:46:57 TestingUnoDosTre: So apparently I've been living under a bush for a while, but the creator of Candy Crush was apparently successful at generating cash flow?

00:50:16 BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Cryptostocks/Vircurex just did clawbacks in yet another operator enacted scam

00:51:07 ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, could you explain?

00:51:31 BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: https://vircurex.com/welcome/ann_reserved.html

00:51:41 BingoBoingo: Run by the same operator as cryptostocks

00:51:43 ninjashogun: yes I saw that

00:51:49 ninjashogun: Oh that is VERY good information!!!

00:52:01 ninjashogun: However, I will say one thing. At a macro level there is no FDIC, nor bailout.

00:52:03 BingoBoingo: Well, can any platform that does such a thing be taken seriously?

00:52:07 ninjashogun: I'll explain.

00:52:15 ninjashogun: The reason is that actions are judged on the basis of their consequences.

00:52:27 ninjashogun: Now it should have been practicing PROPER opsec.

00:52:30 ninjashogun: It should NOT have had coins stolen.

00:52:32 ninjashogun: But let's say it did.

00:52:36 ninjashogun: What should it do now?

00:53:12 Apocalyptic: ninjashogun, you're not making any sense

00:53:13 ninjashogun: It could have done something even stronger: "We will now be fractional-reserve, the way all banks in the United States have operated for 100 years. We will not hold as many bitcoins physically as are in our accounts - nor make up the deficit."

00:53:26 ninjashogun: (as are in YOUR accounts, I mean)

00:53:29 ninjashogun: But it didn't say that:

00:53:36 Apocalyptic: but they can't even satisfy withdrawals now

00:53:50 Apocalyptic: that's why they are locking the balances, they've been operating fractional for years

00:53:59 Apocalyptic: ninjashogun, are you not reading the statement ?

00:54:16 ninjashogun: It said "We will get back to 100% reserve bank, owning as many bitcoins physically as people have on account. To get back up to that level we will take the profit from our operations and use it to build up the fractional level."

00:54:31 BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: They never had a profit

00:54:38 ninjashogun: Apocalyptic, according to that statement, ALL people will be paid back eventually.

00:54:42 ninjashogun: I understand this.

00:54:45 Apocalyptic: yeah yeah...

00:54:47 BingoBoingo: In spite of raising 3000 some BTC in an "IPO"

00:54:47 ninjashogun: I know.

00:54:51 Apocalyptic: if you trust the statement

00:55:03 ninjashogun: how many btc are they reporting stolen

00:55:05 benkay: lol "all people will be paid back"

00:55:14 Apocalyptic: you believe it too benkay don't you ?

00:55:15 ninjashogun: wait, we can judge whether this has any chance of being true

00:55:17 benkay: man if i had a btc for every time i've read that

00:55:29 benkay: i judge stochastically these days ninjashogun

00:55:31 BingoBoingo: ninja they have been a known shit heap since roughly February 2012

00:55:34 ninjashogun: they raised 3000 btc in an IPO. That means that is free cash for them - they sold equity?

00:55:38 benkay: 99% likelihood nobody gets paid back.

00:55:43 ninjashogun: I understand that.

00:55:49 ninjashogun: But if they shut down, that 99% becomes 100%.

00:56:12 benkay: ...

00:56:14 benkay: yes.

00:56:17 benkay: that is very true.

00:56:46 BingoBoingo: They got hacked, "IPO'd", got hacked again, started paying interest on deposits, and now this.

00:56:47 ninjashogun: Let me make an analogy. (I might have the facts totally wrong). IN the seventies or eighties (no real idea on the decade, I'm guessing) the U.S. found that some third-world country had either stolen some of the mint's machinery, or gotten their hands on perfect reproductions. It could make undetectable counterfeit dollar bills.

00:56:55 ninjashogun: What did they do - did they shut down all of the then-current series?

00:57:14 benkay: eyo mo

00:57:14 ninjashogun: No. They just let the counterfeiters print at the limiting capacity of those presses, taking the hit on the total money supply.

00:57:35 ninjashogun: That is probably a better outcome than if they had "abandoned the dollar" due to its dilution by fake dollars.

00:57:37 moiety: mew :)

00:57:46 Mats_cd03: lol

00:58:02 benkay: what do you think mo: is a scam a scam?

00:58:04 ninjashogun: Likewise, if a currency does get hacked, it is probably better to become fractional-reserve, or freeze accounts, or play other shenanigans, than just say, "Well we're gone now, bye, and thanks"

00:58:21 moiety: benkay: not if its called a ponzi

00:58:32 BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: This isn't a currency getting hacked.

00:58:32 benkay: ba-dum-tsh

00:58:51 ninjashogun: CheckDavid says (we're on skype) he doesn't get my point

00:59:09 BingoBoingo: This is a business admitting its business model is incompatible with reality and failing to take the last necessary action.

00:59:17 ninjashogun: My point is just that from among the alternatives, shutting down the exchange is guaranteed to have the worst possible outcome for lenders/creditors. (people who put thehir bitcoins or usd in.)

00:59:25 Mats_cd03: sure if you are the operator and you are honest then yes that is how it proceeds

00:59:30 moiety: do you think kakobrekla can make an ignore that works on the logs too?

00:59:39 ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, do you mean because vircurex is making it up?

00:59:55 ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, and it's not a genuine thing that happened? That https://vircurex.com/welcome/ann_reserved.html is about a lie?

00:59:56 Mats_cd03: what incentive does a new customer have to become a part of a known weak exchange?

00:59:57 benkay: moiety! stop trolling!

01:00:12 moiety: >.>

01:00:16 moiety: <.<

01:00:17 Mats_cd03: do you expect depositors to behave like their risk profile didnt just go up?

01:00:23 BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: I mean the thing they need to do is stop, and the time for them to have done so was last winter

01:00:35 benkay: i want an ignore that works on anyone who's unrated by people i've rated

01:00:56 Mats_cd03: write a script for your client

01:00:58 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, no, but I think that you will find in looking at Fiat that the fact that the money supply is unilaterally increased by letting banks put more into circulation than existed - and that the rate of this is a total unknown - does not deter people from using and holding USD.

01:00:59 moiety: but that would mean me too for now

01:01:09 ninjashogun: (More specificlaly, it does deter people from holding USD, but not entirely.)

01:01:11 benkay: ah, rats.

01:01:13 moiety: i will change this though

01:01:18 benkay: yes plz do

01:01:27 benkay: maybe nag nano to let you auth with doge or something ;)

01:01:43 benkay: that's the really silly thing about not getting in the wot

01:01:52 benkay: it only takes a btc addy

01:01:57 Mats_cd03: nobody cares about the size of the bitcoin money supply

01:02:06 Mats_cd03: what are you trying to say

01:02:09 moiety: i would quite like my wot untainted :P

01:02:36 moiety: we did make bitcoinmagazine in other news

01:02:37 benkay: untainted by what?!

01:02:45 moiety: doge lol

01:02:54 gribble: such auth, very doge

01:03:03 moiety: gribble!!!

01:03:32 benkay: ;;gribble

01:03:32 gribble: yes I am gribble. why do you keep bothering me?

01:03:38 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, well what is the PRIMARY issue with putting your bitcoin in a site that is currently freezing someone else's bitcoins? Look at that and you will see, some people may still put some of their bitocins in.

01:03:59 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, would anyone ever put their bitcoins onto a site that is currently freezing somebody else's bitcoins - and they know this?

01:04:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.64797672 = 4.5358 BTC [+] {3}

01:04:17 moiety: Did Izzy ever re-appear? sorry i wasn't around

01:04:30 benkay: ;;seen Izzy_

01:04:30 gribble: Izzy_ was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Izzy_> ok

01:04:31 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, we know for a fact that with real currencies the answer is "yes". We know because people used paypal when paypal froze merchant's accounts and ruined their businesses. We know because people use US Banks when US Banks freeze people's accounts while they're under investigatoin. etc.

01:05:03 benkay: difference there being 0.01% get fucked vs. 100% get fucked in this situation.

01:05:40 benkay: .bait

01:05:41 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/6c8140cdfacc9094758b3b455fded46a/tumblr_mgk585YVJc1rgmx4co1_500.jpg

01:05:53 Duffer1: ninjashogun cryptostocks continued operation is a gross violation of common sense, morality, and probably most jurisdiction's laws

01:05:56 benkay: cute.

01:06:02 moiety: i like this one

01:06:07 benkay: cryptostocks continued operation is a gross violation of thermodynamics.

01:06:20 benkay: vircurex too.

01:06:24 Apocalyptic: ^

01:06:37 Mats_cd03: thighs

01:07:06 BingoBoingo: benkay: I don't think it is proper to separate the shenanigans of the two

01:07:36 Mats_cd03: nobody cares about the continued operation per se; its the continued damage to the reputation of legitimate operators within the ecosystem

01:08:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 70 @ 0.00630873 = 0.4416 BTC [-] {2}

01:08:28 Duffer1: that and the certain damage to future unwary participants in the exchange

01:08:51 Mats_cd03: besides which, there is no incentive for new customers in lieu of a new risk profile

01:09:04 benkay: fuck 'em all, let everyone drown.

01:09:08 benkay: it's a rotten ship and they're all rats.

01:09:17 Mats_cd03: paypal and usg having a number of such incentives that enable them to operate like thugs

01:09:49 benkay: Mats_cd03: tack another three order of magnitude on for thuggery.

01:13:19 Mats_cd03: also, something about conflating deposits in a exchange with actual currency...

01:13:43 Mats_cd03: reconsidering whether or not im being trolled tbqh

01:16:23 Mats_cd03: https://soundcloud.com/thomasjackmusic/benjamin-francis-leftwich

01:16:47 ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, you're not being trolled

01:17:21 ninjashogun: It's interesting though that the exchanges are behaving as the early unregulated banks did. Complete with bank runs :) (According to the quoted Vircurex text - "https://vircurex.com/welcome/ann_reserved.html")

01:17:42 ninjashogun: "We had enough coin balances in our cold wallet to upkeep our platform and the positive cashflow enabled us to gradually refill the wallets.

01:17:42 ninjashogun: Unfortunately we had large fund withdrawals in the last weeks which have lead to a complete depletion of our cold wallet balance and we are now facing the option of either closing the site with significant unrecoverable losses for all or to work out a solution that allows the exchange to continue to operate and gradually pay back the losses. "

01:17:50 ninjashogun: I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime :) :) :)

01:19:26 moiety: what the absolute fuck

01:19:44 ninjashogun: moiety, you know the history of banks in the United States (and elswhere) right

01:20:49 moiety: ninjashogun: why yes, only yesterday i learned the voice of siri was the voice for the very first atm (tillie the teller i believe) << such history

01:21:20 blackwhite: someone would make a killing setting up a 24/7 security company watching over those online wallets

01:22:08 moiety: sigh* why do you ask ninjashogun

01:22:09 blackwhite: how the fuck can their security be so bad? Or is it just the hackers who are that good?

01:22:43 moiety: or hidden answer c. scamming fucks

01:22:45 TestingUnoDosTre: never knew that about tillie the teller, thanks moiety

01:23:09 BingoBoingo: blackwhite: Vircurex was hacked way back during Winter 2012-Spring 2013

01:23:27 blackwhite: yeah

01:23:54 TestingUnoDosTre: quick poll here: How long does it take for all of you to type "We were hacked for XX,XXX BTC."

01:24:33 moiety: TestingUnoDosTre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6boqUfzUD8 here she is explaining

01:24:50 BingoBoingo: blackwhite: In their case the culprit seemed to be Ruby on Rails

01:26:25 cazalla: people actually use siri?

01:26:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.055035 = 0.5504 BTC [-] {3}

01:27:44 TestingUnoDosTre: People are ridiculous, no?

01:29:34 kakobrekla: <blackwhite> someone would make a killing setting up a 24/7 security company watching over those online wallets < - is this opening asciis parachute after you have hit the ground?

01:29:54 blackwhite: ?

01:30:12 blackwhite: sorry not sure I understand?

01:30:18 blackwhite: humor and irony is lost on me

01:30:45 Apocalyptic: kako : sounds like it

01:30:58 Apocalyptic: blackwhite, when you notice the theft it's already too late

01:31:34 blackwhite: yeah sure. But I am pretty sure one of the problems is that they are not looking and monitoring all the time

01:32:33 blackwhite: so I am saying setup a company who look for suspicius deals or have a whitelist of larger transactions. (i.e. tell this company when you are going to make larger transactions)

01:32:48 radan: can I wager money on mpoe

01:32:51 radan: or mpex

01:33:07 Apocalyptic: "have a whitelist of larger transactions." what ?

01:33:20 Apocalyptic: i'm not sure you get how it works

01:34:01 Apocalyptic: and what prevents the theif from withdrawing a lot in small amounts ,

01:36:20 Mats_cd03: radan: http://bitbet.us/bet/784/s-mpoe-to-rise-above-0-001-before-july http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/

01:36:45 mircea_popescu: soo

01:36:47 radan: what does "trades above 0.001 BTC " mean

01:36:47 mircea_popescu: what's new

01:36:56 Mats_cd03: per share

01:37:00 radan: so like

01:37:04 radan: btc instead of dollars

01:37:15 ninjashogun: radan ye

01:37:20 ninjashogun: btc is a currency

01:37:57 ninjashogun: like the way ice cream can cost $0.75 for example, it could cost a certain amount of BTC 0.001 or whatever

01:38:22 radan: right

01:38:39 radan: so mpoe's had an ipo

01:38:44 radan: and people are buying stock in it

01:38:45 ninjashogun: yes

01:38:47 ninjashogun: exactly

01:39:40 radan: wow

01:39:45 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;whoami

01:39:46 gribble: I don't recognize you.

01:39:49 mircea_popescu: that was in... 2012 ?

01:39:50 radan: the future is now

01:40:10 TestingUnoDosTre: no, the future was 2012

01:40:46 blackwhite: Apocalyptic i get how it works and nothing prevents them from removing a lot of small amount other than that kind of consitution the same as a large amount. If they have to do it over a month then I would most probably know.

01:41:01 blackwhite: constituting even

01:41:01 radan: why don't banks do this

01:41:05 TestingUnoDosTre: ;;whois radan

01:41:06 gribble: Error: You don't have the network.whois capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.

01:41:16 blackwhite: anyway just thinking out loud here.

01:41:17 radan: besides that they probably have tons of cash to play around with in usd

01:42:32 TestingUnoDosTre: do the mods at bitbet work certain hours of the day, or are they more like round clock rotation type

01:42:41 mircea_popescu: sorta round the clock.

01:43:26 radan: wow

01:43:42 radan: someone bet 600,000 that bitcoin will beat berkshire hathaway

01:43:51 radan: maybe they know something we don't

01:43:51 TestingUnoDosTre: someone

01:43:54 TestingUnoDosTre: lol

01:44:01 TestingUnoDosTre: it's called bitcoin

01:44:07 MisterE: http://newsbtc.com/2014/03/24/tera-group-forms-legal-framework-bitcoin-swaps/

01:44:11 copumpkin: radan: the someone was the last message before you said that

01:44:23 MisterE: Finally someone is making a derivatives market!

01:44:32 MisterE: I hope this is the stability we've been looking for

01:44:35 radan: oh, cool

01:44:49 moiety: i sent someone to bitbet today. i linked them and they still searched google and tried .com. conclusion: some people can't be helped.

01:45:09 radan: maybe I should bet .1 btc on that bet

01:45:10 mircea_popescu: moiety you ever hook up with that izzy chick ?

01:45:21 radan: if I win, then I get 2.8 bitcoin

01:45:23 MisterE: my first time to bitbet I hit .com too

01:45:24 moiety: doesn't look like she has everre-appeared

01:45:28 mircea_popescu: ah

01:45:53 moiety: i did think on emailing her, but .. life.

01:46:19 radan: but my whole life savings is in btc

01:46:28 radan: if I lose .1 btc I'd be down 60 actual dollars

01:46:33 radan: hmm

01:46:37 mircea_popescu: MisterE you know we had a derivatives market for about two years, and yes it did bring plenty of stability heh

01:46:49 *: mircea_popescu contemplates being butthurt

01:46:50 radan: I guess it's a better investment than keeping in my wallet doing nothing

01:47:12 radan: alright, I'll do it

01:47:13 mircea_popescu: bets aren't really investments, they're gambling

01:47:19 moiety: ;; later tell Izzy_ Do you still need help?

01:47:20 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:47:21 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu did you ever trade debt?

01:47:40 ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, or even default swaps for example?

01:47:55 radan: how do I bet on bitbet

01:48:08 radan: wait nvm

01:48:11 radan: there's a faq

01:48:19 moiety: mircea_popescu: http://s18.photobucket.com/user/bobbarker31/media/3280983403_b0e0503945_o.jpg.html

01:48:30 MisterE: please retype the internet into IRC for me :p

01:48:39 MisterE: what do you mean mircea_popescu ?

01:48:40 mircea_popescu: lol

01:49:16 TestingUnoDosTre: I wish you could trade default swaps on bitcoin companies... like virtuex

01:49:21 Apocalyptic: lol

01:49:23 mircea_popescu: MisterE http://fraudsters.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/ like that.

01:49:26 Apocalyptic: that would be nice indeed

01:49:28 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: do you know about Master coin ?

01:49:33 mircea_popescu: yeah.

01:49:42 ninjashogun: so here's a genuine question.

01:49:48 duduqa: Have you ever considered creating an alt-channel #bitcoin-assets-stupid for beginners, people with learning disabilities etc like myself?

01:50:11 mircea_popescu: this is it.

01:50:17 CheckDavid: Any short comments on it mircea_popescu ?

01:50:18 CheckDavid: Loool

01:50:24 ninjashogun: given that there's no due dilligence that can be done. no contracts that can be enforced. no sec. no proof you're not getting scammed. and every listing on crypto stocks is a scam. and the OPERATOR is a scammer. ......... how is anyone investing? How is the market 'clearing' (bid meets ask)

01:50:27 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid it doesn't do much.

01:50:34 CheckDavid: Oh I see

01:50:51 ninjashogun: duduqa, come to #bitcoin-assets-stupid

01:51:02 ninjashogun: I am OP I will give you voice.

01:51:07 mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre yeah, because the counterparties would be solvent, in that paralel universe where idiots have infinite bitcoins

01:51:11 mircea_popescu: to go with their infinite hitpoints

01:51:19 CheckDavid: You mean doesn't do much yet. Or it won't do much of anything in the near future?

01:51:31 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid what do you expect it to do ?

01:51:54 CheckDavid: Issue stocks for example

01:51:57 mircea_popescu: nubbins` maybe he meant unexpectedly keel over.

01:52:02 CheckDavid: Distribute dividends

01:52:06 TestingUnoDosTre: you could sell them in neat little batches with different risk profiles... it would be a paradise

01:52:10 ninjashogun: CheckDavid, come to #bitcoins-assets-stupid with me and duduqa

01:52:26 CheckDavid: Exchange currencies without risk of scam at the trade level

01:52:45 CheckDavid: ninjashogun: go sleep

01:52:49 radan: is multibit secure?

01:52:50 ninjashogun: lol ok

01:52:55 CheckDavid: Haha

01:53:16 mircea_popescu: radan more or less

01:53:19 ninjashogun: wait I do want an answer to my question above on why anyone would invest in crypto stocks - don't people with money to invest have standards?

01:53:25 ninjashogun: given that there's no due dilligence that can be done. no contracts that can be enforced. no sec. no proof you're not getting scammed. and every listing on crypto stocks is a scam. and the OPERATOR is a scammer. ......... how is anyone investing?

01:53:27 radan: awesome

01:53:31 mircea_popescu: no major issues so far afaik

01:54:33 moiety: you just listed reasons why you haven't found investment yourself there ninjashogun

01:55:10 BingoBoingo: radan: I prefer 0.5.11 to newer multibit releases

01:55:18 kakobrekla: they are not all scam, just most.

01:55:21 mircea_popescu: bitcoin decentral accelerate ? srsly ?

01:55:27 mircea_popescu: "the world's first" of course.

01:55:52 mircea_popescu: who the fuck thought someone wants a mentor they've never met.

01:56:00 mircea_popescu: jesus im too old for online

01:56:06 ninjashogun: moiety- I have not listed on any crypto stock site.

01:56:15 moiety: thats not what i meant

01:56:23 ninjashogun: moeity - I was kind of invited by someone - not sure if he's a scammer. (that means he probably is.)

01:56:34 ninjashogun: fyrstikken was the person

01:56:41 ninjashogun: Do you guys know what he's doing?

01:57:13 moiety: lovely for you ninjashogun, invited where? make sure he sees you home like a gentleman

01:57:19 MisterE: MP: I see that monthly statement, bummer month, but anyways what am I missing about a derivatives connection? the bonds market?

01:57:38 radan: this feels pretty momentous

01:57:41 radan: http://s28.postimg.org/54j7713vx/bitcoins.png

01:57:41 mircea_popescu: options are derivatives in my book

01:57:42 mircea_popescu: not in yours ?

01:57:49 copumpkin: o.O

01:57:52 ninjashogun: invited to list on his site

01:57:58 ninjashogun: forget the link - it has fyrstikken in it

01:58:51 ninjashogun: I mean, I forget the name of the link, but it has the term "fyrstikken" in it.

01:58:56 ninjashogun: it's a crypto stock link.

01:59:21 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves yeah, everyone's trying to pass off bucket shop bullshit for "derivatives"

01:59:25 mircea_popescu: non deliverable = scam. period.

01:59:38 radan: wait a second

01:59:40 radan: is bitbet legal

01:59:54 MisterE: yea they are but a robust derivatives market is more than options

02:00:06 mircea_popescu: MisterE well x.eur is a future. x.idiff are futures

02:00:18 ninjashogun: I found the link in my logs. It's http://www.fyrstikken.tv/3993A732-057F-426B-A046-7B44B7ED03D6/Fyrstikken.TV.html

02:00:25 ninjashogun: and I was introduced to him explicitly by someone.

02:00:27 MisterE: I dont think I'm understanding everything I'm reading there

02:00:29 asciilifeform: today's lulz:

02:00:30 asciilifeform: http://nsa.gov1.info/dni/2014/nsa-china-military.jpg

02:00:30 MisterE: ok

02:00:31 ninjashogun: Do any of you know that site?

02:00:31 ThickAsThieves: undeliverable isnt the same as non-deliverable

02:00:36 mircea_popescu: the various stocks either don't have enough volume or, for the non-mpex crowd, arten't actually stocks, don't even publish statements etc

02:00:38 ninjashogun: hi, asciilifeform

02:00:41 mircea_popescu: cfds are a long way away

02:00:53 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what difference do yo uhave in mind there ?

02:01:13 ThickAsThieves: referring to diff futures etc not being the same as USD btc options

02:01:36 mircea_popescu: diff futures are a pain in the butt

02:01:49 mircea_popescu: but from what i've seen these people were trying to sell icbit-style "futures" on the usd

02:01:56 ThickAsThieves: but one of the futures i know

02:02:04 ThickAsThieves: best*

02:02:11 mircea_popescu: was the wsj story about diff futures ?

02:02:13 ThickAsThieves: love me some diff bets

02:02:16 ThickAsThieves: no

02:02:30 ThickAsThieves: i dont think so at least

02:02:44 ThickAsThieves: there were a few today i didnt read em all

02:02:44 radan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_casino#United_States

02:02:45 ozbot: Online casino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

02:02:50 ThickAsThieves: i assumed it was all the same news

02:02:51 radan: it's alright

02:02:57 TestingUnoDosTre: asciilifeform that is some top secret shit right there 1!!

02:03:01 radan: unless you live in nevada you can probably use it, I gather

02:03:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd really love to see the chinese files on nato

02:04:10 MisterE: ThickAsThieves: you're talking abotu Tera?

02:04:30 ThickAsThieves: "The first way is as follows, since 80% of the Icelandic population is on Facebook, Icelandic citizens will be able to claim their coins simply by logging into Facebook through a gateway."

02:04:34 ThickAsThieves: MisterE i dunno

02:04:47 ThickAsThieves: i mostly forgot about it after i read it

02:05:25 ThickAsThieves: i cant respect a btc derivative that doesnt touch btc

02:05:41 ThickAsThieves: too dirty

02:05:46 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell MykelSIlver it makes relatively little difference what software bitbet.us runs, as webserver doesn't really hold coins anywya

02:05:46 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:06:18 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: i was actually contemplating just copy pasting the output of current wp in a html file << notrly such a bad idea.

02:06:19 ThickAsThieves: it makes a difference if the site can be compromised and depsot addressed get mitm'd

02:06:35 ThickAsThieves: deposit*

02:06:41 mircea_popescu: well it doesn't run wordpress afaik, but that's no absolute guarantee.

02:06:52 ThickAsThieves: wordpress loving to be compromised n all

02:06:57 mircea_popescu: concerned parties are advised to send some dust first, that'll verify the address and lock it down

02:07:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00095224 = 18.4735 BTC [-] {2}

02:07:23 ThickAsThieves: "The second way for an Icelandic citizen to receive their auroracoins will be through SMS. The person’s cell phone number will then be matched with their National ID number and once verified the user will receive their auroracoins."

02:07:32 BingoBoingo: http://gawker.com/judge-joe-brown-arrested-and-jailed-for-contempt-of-cou-1550813313

02:07:32 ozbot: Judge Joe Brown Arrested and Jailed for Contempt of Court

02:07:48 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay that salt stuff sounds like unintended malleability.

02:07:48 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:07:55 MisterE: pretty much everyone I know gets hacked for the first time using WordPress

02:07:58 ThickAsThieves: is there a year-long auroracoin bet yet?

02:08:05 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo cou, being, of course, ass. in french. so contempt of cou...

02:08:25 radan: damn, iceland's pretty smart

02:08:32 ThickAsThieves: ...

02:08:37 MisterE: this is the news I'm talking about ThickAsThieves http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-24/bitcoin-swaps-near-reality-as-tera-group-forms-legal-framework.html

02:08:39 radan: this is like giving every man a farm so he can work productively

02:08:41 ThickAsThieves: iceland has no part in it radan

02:08:47 MisterE: yea I wanted to move to Iceland for long time now

02:09:10 ThickAsThieves: it's just some guy sending coins to people

02:09:18 ThickAsThieves: an idea of a thing

02:09:19 mircea_popescu: ~worthless~ coins to peoplke.

02:09:33 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, of all of the things to have drawn contempt from, asses might not be that bad

02:09:39 radan: I don't think you can, MisterE

02:10:17 radan: Iceland's pretty tight on immigration unless you're rich or a refugee

02:10:18 MisterE: yea not unless you're Scandanavian resident already

02:10:36 MisterE: thats what I found

02:10:50 radan: I presume you want to go there because they have a stable society

02:10:59 moiety: i like to top comment re judge judy BingoBoingo

02:11:00 ThickAsThieves: go to switzerland

02:11:03 ThickAsThieves: or canada

02:11:08 ThickAsThieves: pretty stable places

02:11:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.00299999 = 0.105 BTC [+]

02:11:16 radan: but consider that the reason for this is that everyone shares significant ethnic and cultural bonds you are not privy to

02:11:17 MisterE: canada is lost

02:11:33 MisterE: and Iceland is on the same track so in retrospect I'm glad I stayed put

02:11:41 asciilifeform: mark twain's theorem. 'don't join the club that would let you in.'

02:11:42 mircea_popescu: whos judge brown anyway

02:11:51 TestingUnoDosTre: If anyone finds a version of that bitcoin swaps article that contains comments about the winklevoss brothers, please send it to me. I read it earlier today and broke out laughing, but I can't find it now :(

02:11:59 bones`: My hometown shining star of Reality TV, mircea_popescu

02:12:01 ThickAsThieves: a tv judge?

02:12:03 ThickAsThieves: yeah

02:12:12 ThickAsThieves: like Montel meets Judge Judy

02:12:22 bones`: He just gets loud and says catchphrases

02:12:43 ThickAsThieves: he looks way cooler with that handlebar stache

02:13:02 bones`: He looks like 5 miles of bad road if you ask me

02:13:07 radan: alright

02:13:08 radan: I did it

02:13:23 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He was one of those daytime shows that keep those with nothing to do during the day sated in between ration tickets.

02:13:32 TestingUnoDosTre: apparently, he was an actual criminal judge for a county back in the day

02:13:39 bones`: Ya my county. :(

02:13:56 mircea_popescu: deadweasel finance couldn't be abandoned, i dont think. merely reduced to it's bare bones.

02:14:03 TestingUnoDosTre: I would rather my county have a pompous tv personality judge than a real hard ass judge

02:14:12 radan: hopefully I won't need to eat those 60 bucks anytime soon

02:14:18 mircea_popescu: currently there's one valuable person per bank office : the credits officer. he's the guy that makes the call if lending is a good idea.

02:14:28 mircea_popescu: everyone else just pushes paper, does forms and bs. that could be done away with

02:14:34 BingoBoingo: Joe Brown is one of those cases of if you stare too deep into the ghetto, you eventually become ghetto

02:14:44 mircea_popescu: cut 99.5% of the workforce woreking in a bank, increase salaries for the remainder 10 to 100x

02:14:51 mircea_popescu: more inequality, better service.

02:15:06 ThickAsThieves: no one goes to banks anymore anyway

02:15:15 mircea_popescu: i do actually.

02:15:22 radan: consider that the purpose of a business (from a societal, not individual viewpoint) is to keep as many people as busy as possible

02:15:23 ThickAsThieves: well me too

02:15:24 ThickAsThieves: but

02:15:44 ThickAsThieves: i read an article today that says like 30% down or something

02:15:47 radan: that's one of the metrics the government likes to use

02:15:54 mircea_popescu: well prolly.

02:15:57 ThickAsThieves: http://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewzeitlin/more-than-30-of-americans-havent-visited-a-bank-in-last-six

02:15:58 ozbot: More Than 30% Of Americans Haven't Visited A Bank In The Last Six Months

02:16:09 mircea_popescu: radan government can stand on its head. businessmen decide what business is.

02:16:20 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves that may be because they're broke.

02:16:34 radan: in a perfect world, yea

02:16:58 mircea_popescu: ;;later peterl it's not changed since last year.

02:16:58 gribble: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "peterl" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.

02:16:59 asciilifeform: can't speak for others in the land of the sad, but i haven't been inside a bank in ages.

02:17:02 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl it's not changed since last year.

02:17:03 gribble: The operation succeeded.

02:17:06 radan: but governments tend to monopolize force

02:17:16 asciilifeform: most banks let you deposit cheques by photocopy now

02:17:19 ThickAsThieves: also cuz everyone uses credit cards

02:17:31 MisterE: lending officers rarely are located in branches anymore

02:17:32 radan: and use it like a club to beat on anyone who's not following their "recommendations"

02:17:57 MisterE: they mostly rely on computer algorithms and usually give the go ahead from some corporate HQ

02:18:15 moiety: i'm only ever in my bank when i need to shout at them for fucking something up

02:18:24 MisterE: ^

02:19:13 mircea_popescu: i wonder how long before that berkshire bet collects 1k on no side

02:19:52 ThickAsThieves: i'm quite happy the Yes bets are so little

02:20:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20889 @ 0.00095455 = 19.9396 BTC [+] {2}

02:20:28 radan: waaaait

02:20:30 mircea_popescu: so little ? it's huge

02:20:30 ThickAsThieves: since yours

02:20:36 radan: I thought betting yes would return 28x

02:20:49 radan: it only returns 1x and some change?

02:20:57 ThickAsThieves: so few, i shouldve said

02:21:23 mircea_popescu: radan you were probably looking at no

02:21:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9088 @ 0.00095652 = 8.6929 BTC [+] {3}

02:21:59 radan: :/

02:22:06 radan: trolled by my own reading comprehension

02:22:27 ThickAsThieves: yeah i read a bet like 4 or 5 times before sending

02:22:39 ThickAsThieves: it's amazing how twist a yes or no bet can be

02:22:39 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

02:22:44 ThickAsThieves: twisty*

02:22:47 mircea_popescu: a good policy is perhaps to never bet the day you discover a bet

02:23:15 ThickAsThieves: I have a celendar reminder to review bitbet every 3 days

02:23:31 radan: maybe I'll invest the same amount in the other direction to cancel it out

02:23:45 duduqa: have you guys seen this: http://www.semana.com/aplicaciones/articulo/peligro-ni-se-le-ocurra-intentar-ganar-plata-con-bitcoin/381503-3

02:23:51 mircea_popescu: you don't need the same ammt, read the article about how to cancel

02:23:54 duduqa: Colombia to "ban" bitcoin

02:24:12 mircea_popescu: duduqa i had no idea colombia actually can ban things. didn't they fail with cocaine ?

02:24:37 MisterE: radan: you're the kind of man they give free trips to Vegas to :p

02:24:40 duduqa: mircea_popescu: I said "ban" exactly because of that

02:24:50 MisterE: betting both sides, the house loves you :)

02:25:02 mircea_popescu: :p

02:25:20 mircea_popescu: MisterE no actually, betting both sides is the way to play.

02:25:26 mircea_popescu: this is mutual not bs.

02:25:36 ThickAsThieves: i bet both sides of the berkshire bet

02:25:39 ThickAsThieves: how could you not

02:25:41 MisterE: what?

02:25:51 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/740/may-i-suggest-9b-difficulty/

02:25:51 MisterE: you have a fee so you're always out then

02:25:52 ozbot: BitBet - May I suggest 9B difficulty?

02:25:55 mircea_popescu: this is actually not so far off

02:26:03 mircea_popescu: MisterE you don't understand the weight

02:26:10 MisterE: oh there's odds?

02:26:17 mircea_popescu: there's weight and implicit odds

02:26:23 MisterE: thats understandable then

02:26:25 mircea_popescu: you can shave plenty just by watching the bets.

02:26:32 MisterE: hmmm

02:26:43 mircea_popescu: perfectly legit way to make cash. liquidity providing, as it were.

02:26:45 MisterE: I'm afraid to look into it another time sink!

02:27:25 mircea_popescu: yeah this isn't for amateurs. raw power, so it requires solid understanding of what's going on.

02:27:28 MisterE: the more I hear you guys chatter about it the more likely will though heh

02:27:47 benkay: i still don't actually understand how to actually play parimutuel odds

02:28:11 MisterE: I do remember briefly reading the site and what exactly a yes or no could mean was very difficult to determine sometimes

02:28:17 MisterE: even with the outcome explaination

02:28:29 MisterE: explanation*

02:28:38 radan: okay

02:28:42 radan: .1 on yes

02:28:43 moiety: way more fun to learn than say fucking javascript

02:28:44 radan: .05 on no

02:29:25 MisterE: benkay: I understand that as the first few people who are in share the winnings

02:29:27 radan: then I win either way

02:30:06 radan: god, this is awesome

02:30:10 radan: it's like a license to print money

02:30:23 benkay: moiety it can't be that hard to learn to say fucking javascript

02:30:38 benkay: pretty sure that's the first thing i learned when i started working with javascript as a matter of fact.

02:30:41 benkay: "fucking javascript"

02:30:48 MisterE: hah

02:31:13 moiety: not hard, just tedious benkay . i think i have the fucking javascript up part totally down

02:32:06 benkay: javascript and python feel like guns that just want to point at my feet

02:32:35 benkay: i'm out here trying to kill some bison to feed my people and my damn gun just won't stop pointing at my foot

02:32:36 mircea_popescu: radan lol enjoy.

02:32:41 moiety: python can just go slither away until i have a dev chained to a raditor somewhere

02:32:45 duduqa: gotta go, folks, have a goof day/night

02:32:45 moiety: radiator*

02:32:48 duduqa: good

02:33:39 radan: wait

02:33:48 radan: let's say the payout for yes on a given bet is 1.5

02:33:56 radan: and no's is, say, 20

02:34:01 radan: what stops you from betting 1 on yes

02:34:05 radan: and .5 on 20

02:34:14 radan: then you either make back what you made or win 10 btc

02:34:20 radan: *what you spent

02:34:37 MisterE: heh http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/

02:35:57 benkay: radan: you've discovered hedging.

02:36:36 mircea_popescu: so now i'm getting spam from mastercoin.org

02:36:45 mircea_popescu: i guess that's what killfiles are for, but srsly...

02:37:17 moiety: did anjiecast ever come in?

02:37:22 mircea_popescu: sure.

02:38:05 moiety: what name? how did i miss that :/

02:38:13 mircea_popescu: princessnell

02:38:14 radan: actually, that's not possible on any of the bets up right now

02:38:15 radan: nvm

02:38:19 benkay: i scared her off, moiety

02:39:06 moiety: ah, lol i did see that :P

02:39:12 radan: unless the bet payouts increase in either direction

02:39:24 radan: that can't happen tho

02:39:49 Mats_cd03: you don't have to type every thought that comes into your head

02:40:12 moiety: it is a big channel, it was perhaps just all the eyes

02:40:46 radan: if some newbie reads the log and thinks he can print money based on what I said 10 mins ago, I'd like to help him out by telling him it's impossible

02:41:25 mircea_popescu: o, some noobie ?

02:41:38 Mats_cd03: lol

02:42:00 moiety: i can serve cosmopolitans and offer to burn bras at the door if required

02:42:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35116 @ 0.00095236 = 33.4431 BTC [-] {5}

02:43:02 TestingUnoDosTre: radan, the statement below the calculator is quite important to read "after fees, at current weight and assuming no one else bets"

02:43:19 kakobrekla: thats why its grayed out

02:43:50 mircea_popescu: lol

02:43:54 TestingUnoDosTre: hahahaha

02:44:31 TestingUnoDosTre: can you get your honkeys on http://bitbet.us/bet/792/btc-difficulty-increases-to-remain-under-16/

02:44:56 mike_c: everybody is going to get in on that proposed NBA finals bet as soon as it's approved.

02:45:13 mike_c: new ATH bitbet

02:46:00 MisterE: so you have to shore up your bets as it comes close to closing time for them

02:47:09 TestingUnoDosTre: like drop some more BTC on your same bet? what do you mean by shore up

02:48:40 radan: what stops people from arming militants or buying drugs with btc

02:48:51 radan: besides the low daily convertible volume

02:49:19 Mats_cd03: why should anything stop people from those things

02:49:32 TestingUnoDosTre: because the phrase BTC was injected, duh

02:49:45 radan: so either they do happen

02:49:57 moiety: who says it is stopped radan?

02:50:07 radan: or the kind of people who do that kind of stuff don't know about bitcoin

02:50:12 radan: hmm

02:50:18 moiety: fed bought abrin off a teenager with btc

02:50:26 TestingUnoDosTre: abrin?

02:50:38 moiety: a toxin like ricin

02:50:39 TestingUnoDosTre: oh nevermind, read that article

02:50:59 TestingUnoDosTre: some kids are just... stupid

02:51:17 moiety: point is they can be stupid using fiat or btc, it's not the issue

02:51:29 the20year: How goes it?

02:51:30 MisterE: substitue "cash" for BTC

02:51:32 MisterE: same saem

02:51:48 MisterE: people buy drugs not BTC

02:54:06 moiety: drug related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odEiLWJYBL4&feature=youtu.be also bonus bears

02:54:12 radan: bitcoin should start accepting bitcoin

02:54:18 radan: *al qaeda

02:54:29 radan: or maybe they already do

02:54:38 radan: but only the saudis know what address they use :/

02:55:14 TestingUnoDosTre: corrupt us politicians should start accepting bitcoin, or maybe they already do

02:55:50 radan: oooh

02:55:54 TestingUnoDosTre: would love to see a superPAC funded by a BTC donation...

02:56:06 TomServo: .d

02:56:06 ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 1987 blocks | Estimated Change: 49.6388% in 6d 22h 30m 43s

02:56:32 moiety: that video is actually circulating with fake subs re Fred Pherlps death

02:56:36 radan: the potential of all this is only just now dawning on me

02:56:37 moiety: Phelps*

02:57:43 benkay: lol radan

02:57:51 TestingUnoDosTre: radan, have you not pondered much on the real world before?

02:58:02 benkay: give it a year, the mindfucks slow down eventually but don't stop.

02:58:09 moiety: lol

02:58:15 benkay: you don't even have to wrap your head around the monster that was mpoe.

02:58:45 mircea_popescu: le minfuques

02:58:52 benkay: that's not french!

02:59:05 mircea_popescu: then why do you think i have this outrageous accent

02:59:11 mircea_popescu: you silly beenquey

02:59:24 benkay: you're simply outrageous, mircea_popescu

02:59:29 mircea_popescu: no

02:59:30 mircea_popescu: no i am no

02:59:33 benkay: murcha popaskew

02:59:35 mircea_popescu: no no no i am

02:59:36 mircea_popescu: yes i am.

03:00:00 mircea_popescu: ;;google are you the simply outrageous brain specialist

03:00:00 gribble: You'll have to answer these outrageous interview ... - GeekWire: http://www.geekwire.com/2014/top-interview-questions-2014/; Husband: Pregnant, brain-dead wife wouldn't want to be on life ...: http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/justice/pregnant-life-support-texas/; Why does modern medicine throw out our brains? - Outrageous ...: http://www.outrageousfortune.net/2012/03/does- (1 more message)

03:00:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33217 @ 0.00094812 = 31.4937 BTC [-] {4}

03:01:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18850 @ 0.00094794 = 17.8687 BTC [-]

03:06:43 mike_c: the20year: how's business? any new houses?

03:07:33 moiety: has anyone here used Subversion?

03:07:43 mike_c: probably lots (including me)

03:07:52 Apocalyptic: you should rather use git

03:09:16 moiety: its specifically for giving remote ssh access to one domain only rather than the whole hosting account. i can use git for that?

03:10:14 moiety: oh ofc nvm

03:10:29 moiety: whats wrong with subversion?

03:10:45 mike_c: nothing. just centralized vs. decentralized git/mercurial.

03:11:06 Apocalyptic: mike_c, also the fact that svn handles branches awfully

03:11:18 mike_c: well, mercurial can't do shallow clones.

03:11:36 mike_c: so there! :)

03:13:13 MisterE: git > svn

03:13:22 Apocalyptic: ^

03:13:24 the20year: mike_c: i'm not sure where hte last update was here. We have 6 total properties either purchased or in contract. closed on #4 today, supposed to close on #5 any day now. #6 closes the 7th of next month

03:13:42 mike_c: planning on more purchases?

03:13:51 moiety: i thought i always wanted decentralized on everything?

03:14:12 mike_c: i think you can build source control into an altcoin.

03:14:29 the20year: Yeah, definately. really would like to do a flip here soon but i don't have a any good candidates for that right now. Got a few duplexes I'm looking at, one is $27k the other is $39.9k

03:14:44 mike_c: the20year: and congrats on 6. the ipo was helpful then?

03:15:11 mike_c: wow, duplex for 27.

03:15:41 Apocalyptic: the20year, where are you buying these flats ?

03:16:18 the20year: Central Ohio

03:16:37 the20year: Yes, very helpful , we've got a few great announcements coming up. Still have 100ish BTC left in reserves for another property

03:16:57 the20year: One of the candidates we barely miss was just re-listed. They bought it for $52k, I imagine put $10k or less in it and have it on the market for $119k

03:17:24 mike_c: i'll take the duplex for 27.

03:18:13 the20year: I have to take a look at it, we might be able to get it for $20k or so. they bought it in 2006 and managed it quite poorly. tenant burnt down a garage and they gave it up

03:18:22 the20year: Well , gave up on being a landlord

03:18:43 KRS-One: why

03:18:43 mike_c: having your garage burnt down could do that :)

03:18:53 the20year: I'm gonna bet they didn't carry insurance

03:19:17 the20year: We on the otherhand carry half a million dollars on each property, and then are applying for a $2m-$3m blanket for the company itself

03:19:39 benkay: !t h rent

03:19:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00525000 / 0.00557689 / 0.00563480 (119 shares, 0.66365036 BTC), 7D: 0.00520000 / 0.00543286 / 0.00568460 (2290 shares, 12.44126039 BTC), 30D: 0.00510111 / 0.00555894 / 0.00900001 (50160 shares, 278.83621664 BTC)

03:20:03 the20year: Well , it's half a mill per occupant, then premises of no less than 80%. best thing on earth would be for a house to be burnt to the ground without anyone hurt :D it's amazing to me how much they insure our properties for

03:20:03 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

03:20:22 the20year: The property we just bought for $70k has a rebuild value of something like $275k

03:21:08 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves check it out, this dood would like to make a bet provided mpoe-pr doesn't pay for it in bitcoin and she agrees that no bet can be made.

03:21:11 mircea_popescu: these people.

03:21:29 benkay: interesting how RENT performs as it converts its BTC-denominated assets to USD-denominated assets.

03:26:44 the20year: and thankfully over all this volatility we've cashed out at higher BTC:USD values

03:27:27 rithm: bets on tops of bets!?!?!

03:28:24 nubbins`: just finished watching Contact

03:28:25 benkay: mircea_popescu: link?

03:28:31 nubbins`: not bad

03:28:35 mircea_popescu: bets of bets of beets

03:28:48 benkay: beetcoin

03:28:51 rithm: beets stain my teeth

03:28:52 mircea_popescu: benkay same ol, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.msg5873896#msg5873896

03:28:52 benkay: it's purple!

03:29:23 mircea_popescu: but on the heels of the jimmothy O I BET YOU !!11 10 bitcents!11

03:29:28 mircea_popescu: kinda lulzy

03:29:55 mircea_popescu: o yeah, and he wanted odds.

03:30:37 chetty: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-24/poland-quietly-mobilizing-its-army-reservists

03:30:39 ozbot: Poland Is Quietly Mobilizing Its Army Reservists | Zero Hedge

03:30:41 mircea_popescu: roughly the equivalent of mpoe-pr going tyre kicking around berkshire with stuff like "o this is a good investment you bigmouth ?!?! what sort of odds do you give bitcoi nbeats you ? 100:1 ? "

03:32:18 MisterE_: good movie nubbins`

03:32:36 MisterE_: sugar beets are good for all kinds of stuff

03:33:23 the20year: i thought they began mobilization last week

03:33:24 MisterE: what will Romania do if fighting breaks out in the Ukraine with Crimea?

03:33:37 mircea_popescu: probably nothing

03:33:46 MisterE: I guess nobody will do nothing without EU / nato

03:33:58 mircea_popescu: romania doesn't give a shit, as a general policy

03:34:27 Apocalyptic: inb4 Russian army in timisoara

03:34:28 the20year: invade moldova?

03:34:42 mircea_popescu: nah

03:34:50 the20year: poland has 500k+ in reserve, mobilizing 7k for practice doesn't seem too huge to me

03:34:53 mircea_popescu: there's a us base in constanta, which i guess the us will have to defend

03:35:01 mircea_popescu: and the russians probably don't want to get aywya

03:35:21 mircea_popescu: and i very much doubt romania cxan be bothered ot invade either moldova or cernauti

03:36:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 966 @ 0.00299999 = 2.898 BTC [+] {2}

03:38:17 chetty: this may be the war where everyone stayed home

03:39:18 mircea_popescu: they should prolly make a russian and us eve team

03:39:21 mircea_popescu: and have at it.

03:40:11 mircea_popescu: ;;prevdiffchange

03:40:14 gribble: 17.80244

03:40:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20138 @ 0.00094797 = 19.0902 BTC [+]

03:40:43 the20year: what movie was that the basis of?

03:40:50 the20year: 1 on 1 robot wars to settle boundary disputes?

03:42:36 mircea_popescu: i think a bunch of different ones

03:42:45 mircea_popescu: .d

03:42:45 ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 1984 blocks | Estimated Change: 31.0849% in 9d 11h 40m 22s

03:42:57 benkay: robo combat's a bit of a trope at this point, the20year

03:43:00 the20year: Robot jox

03:44:19 MisterE: Pacific Rim was forgettable

03:44:28 MisterE: which is too bad

03:46:56 nubbins`: heard it's a piece of shit

03:47:24 nubbins`: trying to choose between wall street, glengarry glen ross, episode 1 of new cosmos, or bed

03:48:48 mike_c: always glengarry glen ross

03:48:49 ThickAsThieves: cosmos will put you to bed fo sho

03:49:01 the20year: where is the new cosmos

03:49:25 Apocalyptic: <nubbins`> heard it's a piece of shit << it's way worse actually

03:49:56 ThickAsThieves: pacific rim was more entertaining than cosmos ep1

03:50:10 ThickAsThieves: i watched gravity last night, that was actually pretty good

03:50:25 joecool: i should cop that

03:50:27 ThickAsThieves: it is what you think it is, but somehow it doesnt suck

03:51:01 MisterE: glengarry glen ross++

03:51:12 ThickAsThieves: if you have netflix, watch pontypool

03:51:24 ThickAsThieves: that's a cool one

03:51:29 nubbins`: saw it

03:51:35 nubbins`: that's the audio virus whatsit?

03:51:38 ThickAsThieves: yeah

03:51:39 *: nubbins` nods

03:51:50 nubbins`: cool idea

03:51:53 nubbins`: reminded me of snowcrash

03:52:03 nubbins`: but without the statutory rape

03:52:29 MisterE: uhh this? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1226681/

03:53:15 ThickAsThieves: Safety Not Guaranteed wasnt bad

03:54:01 ThickAsThieves: Teeth is fun

03:54:11 ThickAsThieves: vagina dentata!

03:54:34 nubbins`: MisterE yep

03:54:37 nubbins`: canadiana

03:54:41 MisterE: ok wow

03:55:06 MisterE: horror / thriller is not usually a genre I consider

03:55:10 ThickAsThieves: if you havent seen Primer already, thats good

03:55:45 ThickAsThieves: Frozen (not the animated one)

03:56:11 ThickAsThieves: oh, The Signal

03:56:15 ThickAsThieves: The Corridor

03:56:28 ThickAsThieves: (i'm viewing my netflix rated section)

03:57:02 ThickAsThieves: i happen to like the Cube movies

03:57:25 ThickAsThieves: Shiver

03:58:13 ThickAsThieves: if you want scary japanese shit, 3 Extremes

03:58:44 cazalla: the scene in Frozen with the wolves, zomg

03:58:59 cazalla: oh wait, that is something else

03:59:00 MisterE: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2910814/ this The Signal or 2007?

03:59:01 ozbot: The Signal (2014) - IMDb

03:59:25 ThickAsThieves: cazalla thats the one

03:59:29 ThickAsThieves: so good

03:59:42 cazalla: oh, there is a 2012 movie with the same name

03:59:45 ThickAsThieves: Pi

03:59:47 ThickAsThieves: Skew

03:59:53 cazalla: and yes, Safety Not Guaranteed was great imo

04:00:02 cazalla: i thought it was going to be shit but it was a pleasant surprise

04:00:09 ThickAsThieves: Pan's Labyrinth

04:00:47 ThickAsThieves: Battle Royale for more japanese

04:01:03 ThickAsThieves: Attack on Titan for some anime

04:01:20 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/4JXlTkw

04:01:21 ozbot: My squash has developed an new defense mechanism - Imgur

04:01:22 nubbins`: ^ oh fuck

04:01:43 ThickAsThieves: nice

04:01:46 nubbins`: the first cube movie was good (though poorly acted). rest of em were pretty meh

04:01:58 ThickAsThieves: i agree, but i'll watch every single one

04:02:04 ThickAsThieves: they can make 10 of em

04:02:23 nubbins`: cube -5: in the beginning

04:02:44 nubbins`: cube 3.14159265358979323846: sphere

04:02:55 nubbins`: i think that last one is a 6, anyway

04:02:58 nubbins`: been a while

04:03:02 ThickAsThieves: there are some great british limite dseries

04:03:07 ThickAsThieves: like The Fades

04:03:14 nubbins`: watching the bletchley circle now

04:03:20 ThickAsThieves: they had HyperCube

04:03:22 nubbins`: nod

04:03:31 nubbins`: that was the one that was all white?

04:03:31 Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, have you seen Black Mirror ?

04:03:49 ThickAsThieves: not sure lemme look it up

04:04:14 ThickAsThieves: i havent

04:04:29 ThickAsThieves: i already like it from the promo picture

04:04:58 nubbins`: so silvergoldbull (canadian bullion dealer) now accepts btc, but i can't figure out where they're getting their rates from

04:06:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00095478 = 14.99 BTC [+]

04:06:09 Apocalyptic: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2085059/ just watch it

04:06:29 MisterE: ohh looks good

04:06:44 MisterE: is this the frozen that doesn't suck? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376606/

04:06:50 ThickAsThieves: no

04:06:54 MisterE: looks like there could be suckage

04:07:02 ThickAsThieves: the cover is a ski lift at night

04:07:15 MisterE: this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323045/

04:07:18 MisterE: ok

04:07:47 ThickAsThieves: just keep in mind i like really creepy shit

04:07:58 nubbins`: scary

04:08:01 ThickAsThieves: so if you get nightmares dont listen to me

04:08:23 nubbins`: ever see funny games? the 1997 one?

04:08:28 ThickAsThieves: nope

04:08:47 nubbins`: put it on your list, it's fucked

04:09:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00095253 = 14.9547 BTC [-]

04:09:13 nubbins`: buddy of mine is a big horror/creepshow buff, threw it on for me once

04:09:24 nubbins`: really intense

04:09:27 ThickAsThieves: i think it all started with creep show for me

04:09:36 nubbins`: they remade it (the original is austrian) but i've only seen the original

04:10:22 ThickAsThieves: the only movies so far that creep me out to turning them off are japanese though

04:10:28 ThickAsThieves: they are fucked up people man

04:11:20 ThickAsThieves: i like when jiggly butt girl is there to greet me at kat.ph

04:11:54 nubbins`: our women are tired of boys, they want men

04:12:20 nubbins`: the real fuckbook is back

04:12:28 ThickAsThieves: your wife will never find out!

04:12:30 nubbins`: i can only assume people click on them, but i'm not sure why

04:12:51 nubbins`: our site has too many hot women, men join for free

04:13:01 nubbins`: ^ what a problem to have, hey?

04:13:34 nubbins`: "man this sucks, all of our users are young wet hotties. we need some dick up in here"

04:13:57 ThickAsThieves: yet no one is buying the real fuckbook for $1bn

04:14:04 ThickAsThieves: this world...

04:14:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.003 = 0.15 BTC [-]

04:14:49 nubbins`: TANJ

04:14:54 nubbins`: hm, i wonder

04:14:57 nubbins`: ;;ud tanj

04:14:57 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TANJ | TANJ. Expletive. Acronym for "There Ain't No Justice." Used like "damn" Also: tangit, tanjing, and other variations. Accredited to Larry Niven. TANJ! I left the oven ...

04:14:58 ozbot: Urban Dictionary: TANJ

04:15:00 *: nubbins` nods

04:15:29 nubbins`: k, gonna try wall street. wish me wakefulness, it's late

04:18:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.003 = 0.3 BTC [-] {2}

04:22:44 ThickAsThieves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP7tKS74H7I

04:22:44 ozbot: Alleged Silk Road Founder's Mother Speaks Out - YouTube

04:27:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00095478 = 6.1106 BTC [+]

04:29:48 MisterE: Tales From The Crypt++

04:45:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.62303029 = 6.2303 BTC [-] {7}

04:46:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 271 @ 0.00314258 = 0.8516 BTC [+] {7}

04:49:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 105 @ 0.0031988 = 0.3359 BTC [+]

04:59:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.00553475 = 0.1384 BTC [-]

05:06:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8063 @ 0.00095253 = 7.6802 BTC [-]

05:14:54 benkay: http://www.theverge.com/culture/2014/3/19/5475122/dark-arts-tumblr-cyberpunk-renaissance

05:14:54 ozbot: Dark Arts | The Verge

05:29:34 VanCleef: so Putin opened a new account at Rossiya and his monthly salary to be transferred there instead. lolz obama pwnd

05:42:19 MisterE: Obama is so impotent

05:42:26 MisterE: it's great to see for a change

05:42:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00094943 = 5.8865 BTC [-]

05:45:42 benkay: http://fffff.at/gerry-images/

05:45:43 ozbot: Gerry Images | F.A.T.

05:54:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0675 = 0.27 BTC [+]

05:55:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00095059 = 4.5628 BTC [+]

06:16:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 18 @ 0.61549767 = 11.079 BTC [-] {8}

06:21:56 chetty: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/barack-obama-visit-brussels-cost-belgium-10m

06:22:37 chetty: they should revoke the guys passport

06:25:29 MisterE: no person is worth that much

06:25:42 MisterE: imagine if it was a black woman chetty :p

06:26:13 chetty: well she is in china, also causing much trouble

06:27:01 MisterE: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/20/obama-ladies-touch-down-china-amid-taxpaid-trip-up/

06:27:02 ozbot: Obama ladies touch down in China amid taxpayer uproar - Washington Times

06:27:05 MisterE: heh you're on it

06:47:13 MisterE: Hmm wonder if Barbarians at the gate is any good

06:51:02 chetty: http://asset-a.soup.io/asset/7046/5069_adb6_500.jpeg

06:54:49 MisterE: ^ Found in Iraq

06:58:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00631877 = 0.3159 BTC [+]

06:59:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05974999 = 0.1195 BTC [-]

07:08:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13887 @ 0.00095236 = 13.2254 BTC [+] {3}

07:31:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7632 @ 0.00095632 = 7.2986 BTC [+]

07:50:30 KRS-One: .bait

07:50:31 ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/5590643ce9e35b484ba42398fdb42137/tumblr_mf6zjdciKc1qdheiuo1_500.jpg

07:50:43 *: KRS-One kicks ozbot.

07:50:55 *: KRS-One shakes ozbot.

07:51:07 *: KRS-One reboots ozbot.

07:54:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-]

07:58:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00095594 = 9.2726 BTC [-]

08:04:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00095632 = 10.0414 BTC [+]

08:06:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 14 @ 0.0699999 = 0.98 BTC [+] {4}

08:55:38 lnostdal: password needed for the site? ( http://bitcoin-assets.com/ )

09:21:55 chetty: Inostdal: you should be able to go right to the logs with the topic links

09:35:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105 @ 0.00095594 = 0.1004 BTC [-]

09:49:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.6451 = 4.5157 BTC [+] {2}

09:50:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1590 @ 0.00300019 = 4.7703 BTC [-] {6}

09:55:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00094931 = 20.1254 BTC [-] {2}

09:56:07 B007: is everyone asleep

09:56:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 1000 @ 0.000154 = 0.154 BTC [+]

09:56:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 1000 @ 0.000156 = 0.156 BTC [+]

10:08:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05550002 = 0.222 BTC [-] {3}

10:08:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.065 = 0.26 BTC [-] {3}

10:08:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {3}

10:08:28 mircea_popescu: ya kakobrekla one nao needs pw for http://bitcoin-assets.com/ ?

10:08:56 mircea_popescu: lnostdal http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/ seems to still work

10:18:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.0031 = 0.3007 BTC [+]

10:20:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00095148 = 19.3626 BTC [+] {2}

10:25:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00631877 = 0.3159 BTC [+]

10:26:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00095622 = 5.2114 BTC [+] {2}

10:27:25 B007: good morning

10:27:35 mircea_popescu: hi

10:27:42 B007: sleep well?

10:28:13 mircea_popescu: not bad

10:44:56 davout: mircea_popescu: admin//twocansandastring42

10:59:53 cazalla: ;;seen tiberiusiv

10:59:54 gribble: tiberiusiv was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 46 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 30 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <tiberiusiv> you cant read english paragraphs

11:00:01 cazalla: ok, so he gave up

11:05:12 B007: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin

11:05:13 ozbot: Google Trends

11:05:14 jurov: cazalla he leveled through tiberiusv up to tiberiusxi

11:05:21 jurov: and then he prolly gave up

11:05:32 jurov: ;;seen tiberiusxi

11:05:32 gribble: I have not seen tiberiusxi.

11:05:35 jurov: ;;seen tiberiusxii

11:05:35 gribble: I have not seen tiberiusxii.

11:05:38 jurov: ;;seen tiberiusv

11:05:38 gribble: I have not seen tiberiusv.

11:05:49 jurov: or i remember badly?

11:06:31 mircea_popescu: davout hm ?

11:14:32 davout: mircea_popescu: "ya kakobrekla one nao needs pw for http://bitcoin-assets.com/ ?"

11:17:30 mircea_popescu: a haha

11:17:33 mircea_popescu: poor guy

11:17:41 mircea_popescu: one small akismet and that's it

11:19:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12922 @ 0.00095235 = 12.3063 BTC [-]

11:22:15 B007: seems that price follows interest

11:23:36 mircea_popescu: seems so.

11:36:49 VanCleef: neat -

11:36:54 VanCleef: Is Russia ready to cut up its plastic? After Visa and MasterCard stopped processing some Russian transactions in response to U.S. sanctions, Moscow says it could launch a homegrown payment system that could be ready in as little as six months

11:53:21 blackwhite: morning guys

11:54:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00095235 = 4.2856 BTC [-]

11:56:18 Diablo-D3: VanCleef: putincoin.

11:56:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0031 = 0.155 BTC [+]

12:13:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07098998 = 1.1358 BTC [+] {2}

12:17:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.07007857 = 1.9622 BTC [-] {2}

12:18:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.07 = 1.54 BTC [-]

12:36:21 nubbins`: http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2014/

12:36:23 ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014

12:36:25 nubbins`: getting juicier

12:43:29 mircea_popescu: $vwap s.mg

12:43:30 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.000154 high: 0.000154 low: 0.000154 volume: 1050 btc: 0.1617 7 day: average: 0.00011355 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 8050 btc: 0.9140788 30 day: average: 0.0001282 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 13282 btc: 1.7026868

12:43:44 mircea_popescu: month's volume is 1.7btc tho. someone could easily manipulate it

12:44:01 jurov: hopefully it will ship before october

12:44:04 mircea_popescu: ?Assuming that insight will work with people who are unmotivated to change is a colossal misunderstanding."

12:44:09 jurov: and volume goes up then

12:44:25 Neil: mircea_popescu: MisterE no actually, betting both sides is the way to play. << I think, judging from the public histories on bitbet, that this is very poor advice. It seems that waiting pays; I think bitbet probably needs harsher time decay than linear.

12:45:00 mircea_popescu: Neil seriously ? got any data to support this ?

12:45:03 jurov: Neil, example?

12:45:16 Neil: Which part? One at a time.

12:45:31 jurov: "waiting pays"

12:45:34 mircea_popescu: inasmuch as we're asking the same thing lol, youcan do both at a time

12:45:50 mircea_popescu: poor advice/waiting pays/harsher than linear. pick one.

12:46:06 Neil: I haven't seen a single example of anyone (same output address) betting on bitbet making money. There are numerous examples to the contrary.

12:46:15 Neil: excuse me

12:46:15 mircea_popescu: o.o

12:46:17 Neil: betting both ways

12:46:32 mircea_popescu: this seems completely irrelevant to the discussion

12:46:44 Neil: Well that's 1 out of 2. So 50% sofar

12:46:54 Neil: 50% isn't normally considered irrelevant

12:46:55 mircea_popescu: much akin to saying "i've never seen anyone in a green tshirt depositing more money in the bank than they were taking out"

12:47:08 Neil: OK, evidence to the contrary?

12:47:20 mircea_popescu: evidence to the contrary of an unsupported thesis is not necessary.

12:47:32 Neil: I rest my case.

12:47:45 mircea_popescu: but i'm just saying, "same address" is an irrelevant selection here.

12:48:03 Mats_cd03: the burden of evidence lies on the individual making the claim

12:48:11 chetty: would you use the same address to bet both sides?

12:48:13 Neil: Adn the 8BTC bet at the last minute of the "16% bet" just in the last 24 hrs supports my other claim of "betting at the last minute, under linear decay, pays".

12:48:23 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: that's the gamble. someone with pocket change could swing it either way

12:48:27 mircea_popescu: Neil that's an outlier.

12:48:33 Neil: So I happily await a refutation.

12:48:46 mircea_popescu: obviously in a case where a 3 month bet was resolved in 4 days waiting pays o.O

12:48:59 mircea_popescu: just as long as you don't wait more than 4 days

12:49:25 Neil: mircea_popescu: Are you claiming some fudge for the first 4 days would fix it? You're smarter than that.

12:49:42 mircea_popescu: no lol. i'm claiming that on the basis of picking some outliers you can't make general statements.

12:50:04 mircea_popescu: "footwear should be made to support taller women because you should see this swede i'm dating"

12:50:34 jurov: Neil that exact case would require manual intervention "o difficulty prediction is > 16% ? drop the weight sharply"

12:50:36 Neil: I'll just say that, watching bitbet for a while, as I have, I feel waiting pays. It is my belief that it would benefit from faster decay.

12:50:54 mircea_popescu: ok but it helps if you bolster that authority claim with actual data

12:50:58 jurov: such meddling would be insane

12:51:09 mircea_popescu: "on this set of 100 consecutive bets, the results for X behaviour are .1 and for Y behaviour are .04"

12:51:11 mircea_popescu: that works.

12:51:57 Neil: http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/

12:51:58 ozbot: BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD

12:51:59 mircea_popescu: it helps even more if you publish your method along the dataset, then op can apply it to other sets see if behaviour converges

12:52:05 mircea_popescu: and so we're doing research rather than derpage.

12:52:29 Neil: I am willing to bet an insane amount that 1K4Fs will lose on his two-way bet. And big-time.

12:52:44 mircea_popescu: so... bet it ?

12:52:45 Neil: It doesn't really matter how the chips land.

12:52:49 nubbins`: ^^

12:52:53 mircea_popescu: derivative bets. ftw.

12:52:58 Neil: mircea_popescu: Don't be daft. One can't take the opposite of his bet.

12:53:06 mircea_popescu: nono, you can make a derivative bet.

12:53:08 nubbins`: The bet resolves as YES if 1K4Fs will lose on his two-way bet

12:53:45 Neil: He paid a 1 BTC gratiuity to bitbet to let later bettors enjoy some free beers.

12:53:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.068 = 0.136 BTC [+]

12:54:23 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 99886*57.00000000/7186081 * 367.70

12:54:23 gribble: 291.327176162

12:54:36 mircea_popescu: unless i'm doing this badly, should the bet come out as yes he's making ~300 btc

12:54:56 Neil: mircea_popescu: A big, and time-dependent, "if".

12:55:00 mircea_popescu: uh

12:55:17 Neil: Let's wait and see. I'm quite happy to do so.

12:55:31 mircea_popescu: but it reduces to his either winning or losing the bet

12:55:37 mircea_popescu: which... i have no idea what that's supposed to prove ?

12:55:40 chetty: isn't IF what betting is all about?

12:55:48 Neil: I don't think it matters what happens. No way is he winning 100 BTC.

12:56:08 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 99886*42.00000000/28156083 * 74.78

12:56:08 gribble: 11.1421021653

12:56:23 Neil: (initial stake)

12:56:32 mircea_popescu: so he's bet 99 btc, is insured for 11 btc (currently) and stands to gain 291 currently.

12:57:00 mircea_popescu: this seems reasonably ok. and if more people gang on yes, his 291 diminishes but his insurance increases

12:57:45 mircea_popescu: suppose there's a 500 btc bet on yes

12:57:46 Neil: Is it Atoi or something similar has done similar both-way bets on bitbet quite a lot? Each one lost, which is to be expected, given my claim that waiting pays.

12:58:12 mircea_popescu: but this is neither here nor there, much like the green shirt in bank thing

12:58:32 mircea_popescu: you can select any arbitrary pair of yes/no bets and pretend they're made by the same person

12:58:36 mircea_popescu: for all you know, this is actually true.

12:58:37 nubbins`: The bet resolves as YES if the man in the bank is wearing a green shirt

12:59:03 Neil: mircea_popescu: Given your stake in the process I don't expect you to agree with me. But I think the facts speak for themselves. If someone believes 2-way betting pays they're welcome to continue doing it.

12:59:26 mircea_popescu: the trouble is that i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm discussing those facts.

12:59:36 mircea_popescu: and it'd seem they're not really that factual.

12:59:50 mircea_popescu: but this aside : why would you figure my stake would *prevent* me from agreeing with the facts ?

12:59:52 Neil: OK. One example to the contrary will suffice. Happy to post 1 example to support my position.

12:59:55 mircea_popescu: seems logically the other way around

13:00:06 VanCleef: erm i thought rockminer was ipoing tomorrow noon china time and they just announce that the ipo is already over and all shares have sold

13:00:10 VanCleef: what a load of bs

13:00:23 Mats_cd03: lol

13:00:36 mircea_popescu: Neil are you aware that the house wins on some bets ?

13:01:16 Neil: mircea_popescu: But of course. I'm not stupid. The 16% is a good example: the house wins the more people rationally take all that is available "for (near) free".

13:01:26 mircea_popescu: nono you don't take my meaning

13:01:33 mircea_popescu: the house bets BOTH SIDES on ALL BETS

13:01:34 Neil: When everyone scraps over the leftovers the house takes the fee.

13:01:44 mircea_popescu: during some months it comes AHEAD, which means the dual-betting system actually works.

13:01:55 Neil: Yeah that just gets it started, and one is given to the bet originator, so it's not the house really.

13:01:56 mircea_popescu: this is a larger dataset than one example.

13:02:07 mircea_popescu: this hardly weakens my point...

13:02:07 Mats_cd03: i just read the copy on rockminer.com

13:02:16 Neil: 50% doesn't weaken the point? OK.

13:02:21 mircea_popescu: it would win EVEN MORE if it kept both sides.

13:02:22 mircea_popescu: duh?

13:02:36 Mats_cd03: dude can handle running a bidness but cant hire a fluent english speaker

13:02:54 VanCleef: just another scam

13:03:16 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 spam is not misspelled because the spammers can't hire editors. spam is misspelled because that selects for idiots, and they are looking for idiots (false positives are very expensive for them)

13:03:18 Neil: mircea_popescu: I'm still waiting for your counterexample to my claim.

13:03:27 Mats_cd03: or pay attention in english class, apparently

13:03:38 Mats_cd03: you may be right mircea_popescu

13:03:49 mircea_popescu: i think you'll have to re-read this later because i can't produce examples if you randomly reject examples.

13:04:00 VanCleef: http://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/first-bitcoin-derivative-announced-by-tera-exchange-499997

13:04:02 ozbot: First Bitcoin derivative announced by Tera Exchange | NDTV Gadgets

13:04:06 Neil: I don't have anything against bitbet. I like the site. Just saying it how I see it.

13:04:17 mircea_popescu: well no problem, but what you're saying doesn't actually make sense.

13:04:27 Neil: OK :) Whatever.

13:04:30 asciilifeform: spam is misspelled because that selects for idiots << novel hypothesis. traditional thought holds that it is to evade (or, optionally, throw out of calibration) bayesian filter.

13:04:59 Mats_cd03: can you demonstrate why linear decay is inappropriate, and why exponential (or w.e) decay is appropriate?

13:04:59 mircea_popescu: VanCleef you know we lolled at that shit like five times already, getting stale.

13:05:10 Mats_cd03: besides, you know, your intuition

13:05:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that hypothesis was only seriously considered by the baesian cultists.

13:05:21 asciilifeform: (of course, a well-written filter just locks on to characteristic mis-spellings...)

13:05:23 VanCleef: sorry still a bit new to me

13:05:36 VanCleef: i guess its a joke

13:05:46 mircea_popescu: VanCleef jus' grep the log, it's there

13:06:23 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 Neil not that there's anything wrong with intuition, it's how great things start. it still has to be actually checked with data.

13:08:25 nubbins`: asciilifeform: i always questioned why spammers thought I'd consider an email hawking "v1agr4" as a legitimate source for prescription medication

13:08:31 nubbins`: there might be something to this

13:09:19 nubbins`: mouth-breathers of the world, meantime, think "hmm, i could use d1ck p1ll5..."

13:09:38 nubbins`: "i'd love to turn my peanut into a banana" etc

13:10:04 asciilifeform: meanwhile,

13:10:06 asciilifeform: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/justice/one-world-trade-center-jump-stunt

13:10:06 ozbot: Four men arrested in One World Trade Center jump stunt - CNN.com

13:10:24 mircea_popescu: and what's good for people who really believe "make mone yat home by cashing these checks" and "inhearitence!!!" is also good for... "investors"

13:10:27 asciilifeform: anyone remember mathias rust ?

13:10:34 Neil: mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/619/bitcoin-difficulty-at-or-above-2b-before-feb/ 16tA0 (apologies for remebering wrong above) bets 11 and 8 (19 total) gets less than 14 back. I claim that is typical, and can support with more examples. Can you give me even one example of a two-way bet like this, for similar amounts in size, that was a profit for the bettor?

13:10:35 mircea_popescu: can't say as a ido

13:10:51 mircea_popescu: Neil why, yes, i can. here :

13:11:06 Neil: (i.e. where yes and no bets were simliar in size)

13:11:07 asciilifeform: ;;google mathias rust

13:11:07 gribble: Mathias Rust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust; Kremlin Caper: Mathias Rust's Landing on Red Square | People ...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wue02Y0lS38; BBC News - Mathias Rust: German teenager who flew to Red Square: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20609795

13:11:27 mircea_popescu: a) bitbet house bets both sides on all bets, always ; b) in spite of giving away one of the addresses, bitbet house still actually makes bank some months, and overall is just about even ; c) ergo, double betting can be productive.

13:12:15 asciilifeform: http://www.pri.org/stories/2012-12-07/remembering-mathias-rusts-flight-red-square

13:12:16 ozbot: Remembering Mathias Rust's Flight to Red Square | Public Radio International

13:12:16 mircea_popescu: obviously if bitbet house simply kept both addreses it'd actually be ahead by now. which makes it a fine example of how you can make money betting both sides early.

13:12:24 mircea_popescu: an example which is put there deliberately, by design, by me,

13:12:32 mircea_popescu: and an example which people still have difficulty following

13:12:44 mircea_popescu: (not that i mind, i guess, more btc for me)

13:12:54 Neil: A bettor other than bitbet. Bitbet gives one side to the originator of course, so I don't even understand your example. Of course, you may have smart decision makers who decide whether a given proposition is more likely to turn out + or -, but that's beside the point. Real-life non-bibet bettor in size (say > 0.5 BTC each side)? Just one example?

13:13:09 mircea_popescu: well try to understand it.

13:13:20 mircea_popescu: rather than simply discard it.

13:13:28 Neil: I'm trying hard to understand somehting that doesn't exist. Waiting for proof.

13:13:37 mircea_popescu: well ok, this'll have to wait then.

13:14:03 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, here's a girly with snow on her tits

13:14:04 mircea_popescu: http://31.media.tumblr.com/88592d7877ee342801c347b98a0d2038/tumblr_mm1dl2X38s1s0ryyvo1_500.jpg

13:14:27 asciilifeform: 'Four New York-area men were arrested Monday after a base jumping stunt from atop One World Trade Center in September, police said. James Brady, Kyle Hartwell, Marko Markovich, and Andrew Rossig have been charged with burglary, reckless endangerment and jumping from a structure, according to a statement issued by NYPD Commissioner William Bratton.'

13:14:41 VanCleef: mmmmi'd liek to pee on those tits

13:15:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i recall a us that'd have just laughed.

13:15:30 asciilifeform: 1987: 'Eventually, Rust saw Moscow. At first, he wanted to land in the Kremlin. But then he decided to try to land in Red Square, which was full of people... Rust was soon arrested, and convicted of illegally crossing the Soviet Border, and "hooliganism." He was sentenced to four years in prison. The case caused quite a stir in Russia. For a while, Red Square was jokingly referred to as Moscow's "third airport

13:15:30 asciilifeform: ."'

13:15:36 mircea_popescu: why so serious, soviet ?

13:16:00 mircea_popescu: aha. perrrfect reference then

13:16:03 VanCleef: do you like ethereum mircea or na?

13:16:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62015 = 1.2403 BTC [-] {2}

13:16:28 mircea_popescu: VanCleef i dun see why it'd be useful.

13:19:53 asciilifeform: elsewhere,

13:19:55 asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/03/ukrainians-on-verge-of-nervous-breakdown.html

13:19:55 ozbot: ClubOrlov: Ukrainians on the verge of a nervous breakdown

13:20:36 asciilifeform: 'ever-amusing Russian Liberal Democrat leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky has proposed dividing up Western Ukraine between Poland, Hungary and Romania. Poland quickly responded that it has no interest in annexing former Eastern Poland. I can't blame them.'

13:20:52 jurov: yes i put that here yest, complete with map

13:20:57 VanCleef: lol nervous breakdown

13:23:43 jurov: yes, the politics around here tends to get divorced from reality

13:24:14 jurov: in slovakia the main topic was protection of traditional family recently, including changing the constitution

13:24:26 jurov: war imminent on our doorstep? dun have time for that

13:24:51 Neil: mircea_popescu: So regarding http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/ and our friend 1K4Fs, I'd be happy to bet real BTC that 1K4Fs loses money regardless of outcome. It's extremely likely (>90%) and given an integral of payoff against probability, I think it's clear betting both ways is a losing proposition. Well, to me at least, which is all that matters.

13:27:12 mircea_popescu: Neil so make a bet.

13:27:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 42 @ 0.11950724 = 5.0193 BTC [-]

13:27:52 Neil: mircea_popescu: But it's only you on the other side. What do you suggest?

13:28:05 Neil: Evens?

13:28:13 mircea_popescu: i suggest you make a bitbet, as you describe it, and ima bet a little myself.

13:28:17 mircea_popescu: and whoever else wants to

13:28:31 Neil: A bitbet on a bitbet?

13:28:31 mircea_popescu: hmm jurov you getting pms ?

13:28:42 mircea_popescu: Neil hence my "derivative bets ftw"

13:28:53 mircea_popescu: i dun see the problem with it, seems a legitimate controversy.

13:28:58 jurov: not from you seems

13:29:04 Neil: But I'd want to bet 5 BTC against reasonable odds, and bitbet doesn't offer that. Only you can.

13:30:45 Neil: *silence*

13:32:09 mircea_popescu: o you want fixed odds ?

13:32:32 Neil: Well that depends on what they are. That 1K4Fs makes money right?

13:32:41 mircea_popescu: well yeah

13:32:53 mircea_popescu: but then i'd have to hedge it somehow because clearly it's contingent on how the bet plays out.

13:33:13 Neil: Well you wouldn't be able to hedge it, but it's off-market price.

13:33:16 Neil: Which is my point.

13:33:24 Neil: s/but/because/

13:33:51 mircea_popescu: i'll take even odds on the proposition that 1k4fs makes money *irrespective* of result

13:34:15 mircea_popescu: but that's impossib le to ascertain

13:34:32 mircea_popescu: unless you're happy with a (291 + 11)/2 > 99

13:34:51 Neil: How so? It's easy to ascertain from the final result whether dude made money or not.

13:35:00 mircea_popescu: derp

13:35:21 mircea_popescu: so just because he went on long odds you're telling me bitbet is broken ? dude wanted the long odds, what can i say

13:35:50 Neil: mircea_popescu: My claim and offer stands. Let's leave it at that. :)

13:36:20 mircea_popescu: but your claim mostly consists of a large "bitcoin wont be over 10k" leg with a tiny "this other thing" leg

13:36:27 mircea_popescu: you can take most of that out on the market as is.

13:37:00 Neil: mircea_popescu: Happy to entertain any other bet, of over 0.5 BTC per side, where someone has bet both ways. I'm not holding my breath, given the performance so far...

13:37:21 Neil: (bet over 0.5 both ways that is)

13:37:23 nubbins`: hmm

13:37:37 nubbins`: so, say, betting 10btc on one side and 0.6btc on the other would fit the criteria?

13:37:51 mircea_popescu: why over .5 ?!

13:38:01 Neil: nubbins`: I'd prefer more evenly weighted. The 0.5 was to eliminate trash.

13:38:15 nubbins`: Neil: well, what, equal amounts on both sides? within 10%?

13:38:19 nubbins`: list your conditions!

13:39:00 nubbins`: let's create some specs here

13:39:00 mircea_popescu: trash o.O

13:39:13 mircea_popescu: statistics is always abused ;/

13:39:23 *: nubbins` rolls a garbage can around -assets collecting amounts < 0.5

13:39:34 nubbins`: free this time, next pick-up you gotta pay

13:39:45 Neil: Where the minimum is 0.5 and where larger size is no more than double smaller size, with > 1 month to go sounds OK, but would like a concrete example before finally comitting

13:41:53 Neil: I think my point stands though - anyone who has bet 2-ways for "decent" size has lost. I have several examples and haven't seen a single counterexample.

13:42:33 Neil: The dude betting 100 BTC both ways on some coin toss was a great specimen of how not to make money on bitbet.

13:42:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 43 @ 0.05338906 = 2.2957 BTC [-] {3}

13:43:00 mircea_popescu: that we readily agree. coin toss and weight doesn't mix

13:43:05 mircea_popescu: should have not put weight on that bet.

13:43:57 Neil: mircea_popescu: Though I think he actually got some contra bets late in the game, which meant he came out near break-even, by luck of said coin toss!

13:44:51 mircea_popescu: i suppose in a way it was a gamble, guy risked 2 btc on the theory "bitbet bettors are idiots"

13:44:59 mircea_popescu: he got to pay the house 2 btc for this presumption

13:45:04 mircea_popescu: as he should. all is well.

13:45:07 Neil: Not so smart. I wouldn't bet that.

13:45:18 mircea_popescu: all the other smarter-than-life players ended up in the same bin.

13:45:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00095177 = 4.4733 BTC [-]

13:45:43 Neil: But I'd also support anyone's right to bet that...

13:46:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 19 @ 0.11950724 = 2.2706 BTC [-]

13:46:41 Neil: "You" talk about the dynamic of bitbet settling to reasonable odds, but a counterpoint is the example fo the recent 200 BTC bet on the 10k USD bet.

13:46:51 mircea_popescu: why is that a counterpoint ?

13:47:14 Neil: The outcome odds before and after are massively different. But both stuck.

13:47:26 mircea_popescu: so ?

13:47:44 Neil: (i.e. no new bets have come in to counterbalance). I don't believe the "market" odds moved that much overnight. Friction is high.

13:47:56 mircea_popescu: well ok you don't believe

13:48:00 mircea_popescu: but i mean what's in a belief

13:48:19 Neil: The Berkshire bet is another example, I think. The odds are higher that 3% (perhaps 15%) but friction prevents realization.

13:48:25 Neil: than

13:48:28 mircea_popescu: what friction is that ?

13:48:32 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is frictionless.

13:49:52 Neil: Friction of trusting a dude with the initials MP, friction of knowing the bet exists and the odds, friction of knowing the odds can change underneath you, friction of tying your money up for 1 year, ... I could go on.

13:50:08 mircea_popescu: you could, but i'd shrug

13:50:21 Neil: Friction of getting into "frictionless" bitcoin.

13:50:23 mircea_popescu: this is like telling me friction prevents wallstreet from pricing gold, because fucktards in namibia have no ws access

13:50:27 mircea_popescu: who in carnation cares.

13:50:47 Neil: Then please explain how 200 BTC come in, and nothing else happens.

13:50:56 mircea_popescu: what am i, god ?

13:51:00 mircea_popescu: i have no idea.

13:51:09 mircea_popescu: but i can't dispute the facts on the basis of my own opinion either.

13:51:18 Neil: Clearly the market is thin. No, I have no idea either, but clearly there are limits in our fun little world. Which is good :)

13:51:37 mircea_popescu: so were the implied odds wrong before or are the implied odds wrong now ?

13:52:01 Neil: Both, clearly.

13:52:05 mircea_popescu: if anything, the fascinating thing with that 200 is that it didn't land on the no side of berkshire

13:52:07 Neil: But bid-offer is too high.

13:52:14 mircea_popescu: which... you'd think that's a massive attractor

13:52:33 Neil: Apparently not.

13:53:00 mircea_popescu: so then... what, the guy with 200 didn't know about berkshire ?

13:53:15 Neil: mircea_popescu: So, somehting I've wondered. Do the "bitbet" terms at MPEX prevent bitbet branching out into other revenue streams?

13:53:17 mircea_popescu: or couldn't trust mp or couldn't lock his btc up for months ?

13:53:30 mircea_popescu: Neil specifically ?

13:53:39 Neil: Suppose bitbet decided to do fixed odds betting (taking on risk on the house). Is that "within the spec"?

13:53:54 mircea_popescu: can't do that as a zero asset corp.

13:54:08 Neil: So you're saying no?

13:54:10 mircea_popescu: the correct way for this to work would be for someone (respected and competent as a bookie) to start a fund

13:54:17 mircea_popescu: and do his bitbet bets and report revenue

13:54:23 Neil: Sure. I respect you believe that.

13:54:52 mircea_popescu: basically the business of the bookie equals the actual bookie.

13:54:55 mircea_popescu: it

13:54:57 Neil: But as a random Joe sixpack reading the specs, and not knowing who you are etc., it's not really clear how bitbet can evolve, indeed even if it can.

13:55:04 mircea_popescu: s one of those, like plastic surgery or massage

13:55:07 Neil: Which isn't to imply it doesn't have a great future.

13:55:23 mircea_popescu: well evolution and morphing aren't the same thing.

13:55:47 mircea_popescu: people keep changing things randomly because of this unwarranted and unwelcome expectation that "new and therefore better"

13:55:51 mircea_popescu: irl doens't work that way.

13:56:05 Neil: So as a prospective investor, given the terms, I'm thinking "Where can this go, how can it expand?" And it seems limited. Which may not be a bad thing.

13:56:50 mircea_popescu: expansion in that sense is not useful for an investor.

13:57:15 Neil: Walking down a one-way street isn't useful either.

13:57:19 Neil: Not saying it is.

13:57:27 Neil: Just saying "where's the flexibility"?

13:57:29 mircea_popescu: nothing forces you into a 100% bitbet portofolio.

13:57:39 Neil: Of course.

13:57:58 mircea_popescu: but consider this : suppose tomorrow some great[ly idiotic] new manager takes over from me, and decides to expand bitbet by buying wynn hotels.

13:58:08 mircea_popescu: the forums will be extremely excited at this development.

13:58:22 mircea_popescu: this obviously will force a modification o the contract, making bitbet a nz0 now.

13:58:37 mircea_popescu: this also means the share will go up, say 100x

13:58:49 mircea_popescu: and it finally means that about 70% of that value is actual assets.

13:59:00 Neil: Trying to understand what's "in-scope" and what isn't. I personally don't think it's clear. I respect your desire to run a clean, auditable (via blockchain) operation. But the future isn't clear at all, to me anyway.

13:59:00 mircea_popescu: then two years later wynn hotels hit a slow patch, get sold for scrap

13:59:09 mircea_popescu: investor has gone from this position where he realises gains each month

13:59:19 mircea_popescu: to this position where he jsut lost a good 90% of his value

13:59:31 Neil: Sure, no argument at all.

13:59:47 mircea_popescu: so what's in scope is running the court system of bitcoin

13:59:50 Neil: I'm not disputing the setup, I actually like it.

13:59:51 davout: mircea_popescu: how would bb buy anything in the first place ?

13:59:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00095177 = 36.0721 BTC [-] {2}

13:59:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012798 = 0.6399 BTC [-] {7}

13:59:53 mircea_popescu: what isn't in scope is anything else.

13:59:57 Neil: I want to understand better what can happen.

14:00:07 mircea_popescu: davout hypotetical hypoteticals are hypopotami

14:01:11 davout: mircea_popescu: doesn't your argument boil down to : "assets are risky because they can depreciate" ?

14:02:16 mircea_popescu: the argument boils down to "fully distributed, non-asset hodling btc corps are a better risk class"

14:02:23 mircea_popescu: which they are.

14:02:34 jayk: oh

14:02:35 mircea_popescu: not saying asset-holding is bad for all time or anything, but it is riskier.

14:04:00 davout: tbh that sounds more like your opinion than an argument

14:04:06 mircea_popescu: well ok.

14:04:30 mircea_popescu: which part, the different risk class part or the sorting of the classes part ?

14:04:48 davout: your evaluation of the relative risk

14:05:01 mircea_popescu: yeah that part is my opinion.

14:05:13 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/18-month-sentence-for-inmate-involved-in-hmp-riot-1.2584421

14:05:13 ozbot: 18-month sentence for inmate involved in HMP riot - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News

14:05:19 nubbins`: "In the end, the rioters traded the sole hostage in exchange for two cigarettes before surrendering to police."

14:05:22 davout: imho ZA corps are quite vulnerable to issues related to management since basically the management *is* the company

14:05:36 mircea_popescu: davout which makes the bad actors quickly visible

14:05:47 davout: there's also the bus factor

14:05:54 nubbins`: they have buses in romania?!

14:05:55 mircea_popescu: asset-based corps dampen management incompetence, allowing outright thieves to run for a longer time than the yshou;d

14:05:59 mircea_popescu: bitcointalk is full of examples.

14:06:05 davout: but i do agree that the improvement of natural selection is a good thing

14:06:16 davout: i agree with that

14:06:46 mircea_popescu: davout from what i recall, some random idiot opining was claiming that getting the average bitcoin exchange at the safety rate of the average human would be a great gain in security.

14:07:03 novusordo: i'm having trouble with coming up with any good examples of non-asset holding corps preceding bitcoin

14:07:15 asciilifeform: safety rate of the average human << ?

14:07:25 mircea_popescu: supported by evidence this strange view oif his, seeing how bitcoin exchanges have the life expectancy of trisomic neonates

14:07:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah something based on how likely it is for the avg 20yo to bite it

14:09:15 mircea_popescu: somehow not mentioning micromorts or anything

14:09:25 mircea_popescu: because you know, little train engines that can, these people.

14:09:30 asciilifeform: i suppose it also matters what is meant by death. i.e. many fiat corps would become fiat corpses, and rather indistinguishable from gox, if disconnected from usg printer.

14:09:45 mircea_popescu: that part wasn't covered.

14:10:20 nubbins`: http://www.thefloatingworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/LSD-cat-700px.jpg

14:10:41 mircea_popescu: novusordo yeah, i believe this is a mpex innovation.

14:13:14 davout: mircea_popescu: who was arguing that ?

14:13:46 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/cash-theft-from-rnc-locker-remains-unsolved-1.2585148

14:13:47 ozbot: Cash theft from RNC locker remains unsolved - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News

14:13:50 nubbins`: GOOD TO KNOW

14:13:57 mircea_popescu: eh we discussed here a little bit back lemme see

14:15:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299999 = 0.365 BTC [+] {3}

14:15:28 Mats_cd03: lol nubbins` blotter?

14:15:36 nubbins`: nod :D

14:15:53 nubbins`: unsoaked, natch

14:16:21 Mats_cd03: after you lay it, get close and take a deep breath

14:16:34 Mats_cd03: is the cats meow

14:17:33 mircea_popescu: davout well i can't find it now. some kid from the "community" of self-proclaimed experts wrote some sort of article/"white paper" on how bitcoin exchanges should do x y z to get their risk of blowing up in line with the risk of the average 20yo getting hit by a bus

14:18:26 davout: sounds interdasting

14:18:42 mircea_popescu: davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2014#563385

14:18:46 mircea_popescu: smarter people than me halping.

14:19:05 davout: mircea_popescu: thank you kind sir

14:19:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00095177 = 3.3312 BTC [-]

14:19:43 Mats_cd03: that paste doesnt exist anymore

14:19:50 davout: aw the paste is gone

14:19:54 mircea_popescu: talktotat.

14:20:02 nubbins`: Mats_cd03: would actually be a neat business to get into, supplying blotter paper

14:20:02 mircea_popescu: it was stupid anyway

14:20:08 nubbins`: a tough nut to crack tho, for sure

14:20:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21218 @ 0.00095315 = 20.2239 BTC [+] {4}

14:20:19 davout: didn't know gox hosted some pastie-clone as well

14:20:35 mircea_popescu: nubbins` isn't it traditionally reserved for the girlfriend of the chemist making the dope ?

14:20:37 Mats_cd03: as i understand it, the best market are the sr clones

14:20:49 Mats_cd03: ^is

14:21:09 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: as it happens, the best i've tried has been white-on-white (no design at all)

14:21:31 nubbins`: Mats_cd03: i haven't been keeping track of the clones at all

14:21:44 ThickAsThieves: http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/03/24/color-rotsnake_custom-d48b779a38b868da75a48c9b1e7e5515a0a644cd-s40-c85.gif

14:22:14 nubbins`: my eyes

14:22:45 ThickAsThieves: you now have the visually transmitted virus

14:22:46 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: for that matter, i don't think the chemist generally lays the blotter at all

14:22:49 Mats_cd03: me neither, although it makes sense - its not actually illegal in a lot of jurisdictions (the paper, anyway)

14:22:58 nubbins`: simply produces vials of liquid

14:23:10 nubbins`: Mats_cd03: plenty of blotter art on ebay, even

14:23:11 mircea_popescu: s/chemist/whoever lays

14:23:30 nubbins`: lots of alex grey and r. crumb

14:24:09 nubbins`: crumb's artwork is cool, burns me out

14:24:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07299999 = 0.292 BTC [+]

14:25:03 nubbins`: http://theartofattraxion.com/works/robert-crumbs-history-of-women/

14:25:04 ozbot: Robert Crumb’s History of Women « TheArtofAttraxion X Because your body is a canvas.

14:25:17 mircea_popescu: ;;google a crumb of frisco

14:25:18 gribble: Crumb N Get It Cookie Factory - Frisco, Texas - Bakery | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/crumbngetitcookiefactory; 12 State Farm Agents in Frisco, Texas: https://www.statefarm.com/agent/US/TX/FRISCO; Agents in Frisco, CO - State Farm Insurance: https://www.statefarm.com/agent/US/CO/FRISCO

14:25:22 mircea_popescu: darn son.

14:26:30 novusordo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=528464.msg5891852#msg5891852 lol

14:26:32 ozbot: ROCKMINER - miners using GEN3 ASICMINER chips

14:27:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 19 @ 0.05278955 = 1.003 BTC [-] {2}

14:28:19 asciilifeform: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-24/banker-suicides-leave-industry-concerned-as-coroners-investigate.html

14:28:35 kakobrekla: too much chemtrails

14:28:37 Mats_cd03: lol

14:28:50 mircea_popescu: http://theartofattraxion.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/robert-crumb-history-of-women-w-magazine-3-1.jpg

14:28:56 mircea_popescu: i believe the guy never saw a russ meyer film.

14:29:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.068 = 0.204 BTC [+]

14:29:50 nubbins`: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/7471348400_d84ea92e46_o.jpg

14:30:06 nubbins`: "R. Crumb's ideal woman: the 'true amazon'"

14:30:30 mircea_popescu: lmao at all this "genetically superior both physically and mentally"

14:30:40 mircea_popescu: then you're regaled something from the roadside freakshwo cca 1905

14:30:47 mircea_popescu: srsly nao, caliban is never smart. ever.

14:31:05 mircea_popescu: caliban is subhuman.

14:31:05 Mats_cd03: hahaha

14:31:26 nubbins`: heh

14:31:29 nubbins`: crumb is fucked

14:31:35 nubbins`: he's published books full of shit like this

14:31:38 nubbins`: check this one: http://rottenindenmark.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/img_4989.jpg

14:32:10 mircea_popescu: nubbins` http://fraudsters.com/2009/un-crumb-de-frisco/

14:32:41 nubbins`: HEH

14:33:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.62006666 = 3.7204 BTC [-] {2}

14:34:23 nubbins`: http://www.badgirlchats.com/wp-content/uploads/R-Crumb-image.jpeg

14:34:53 nubbins`: anyway, re: crumb blotter art: http://blotterart.com/ProductImages/grabbies-orange-blotter-art.jpg

14:38:55 *: jurov saves the crumbs woman to later delight of his lesbian friends

14:39:42 jurov: they know how to appreciate true womanhood

14:41:19 nubbins`: crumb took a lotta flak over the years

14:47:24 mircea_popescu: aren't they a little... porky ?

14:47:34 mircea_popescu: i like big women too, but these seem big in all the wrong ways in all the wrong places.

14:48:52 kakobrekla: www.uvm.edu/~iwd/images08/venuswillindorflarge.jpg

14:49:40 nubbins`: he likes Women

14:49:42 nubbins`: capital-W

14:49:55 nubbins`: birthing hips etc

14:50:18 nubbins`: you'll find a lot of crumb fans do as well

14:51:49 asciilifeform: http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/03/24/color-rotsnake_custom-d48b779a38b868da75a48c9b1e7e5515a0a644cd-s40-c85.gif << what does it say about me brain if i can... make it stand still

14:52:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46600 @ 0.00095528 = 44.516 BTC [+] {5}

14:53:14 nubbins`: it means you'd make a good sniper

14:54:31 mircea_popescu: nubbins` gotta have that narrow waist etc.

14:54:55 mircea_popescu: all these folks looking for a mom.

14:55:37 nubbins`: ^

14:55:53 nubbins`: gazing upward with hope and joy in their eyes

14:56:00 nubbins`: o, to die beneath her fists!

14:58:37 asciilifeform: 'don't run from sniper, you'll only die tired' (american folk saying)

15:04:26 rithm: i'm just glad my computer works today

15:04:30 rithm: 3rd one this year

15:05:02 rithm: bitcoin be killin those encrypted ~ partitions

15:09:59 novusordo: so apparently the trezor has a better recovery system than I thought

15:10:30 novusordo: if you take a factory-fresh trezor and you have a bip32 wallet you'd like to put on it

15:10:46 novusordo: it prompts you to enter the words from the bip32 phrase out of order

15:11:04 novusordo: and also prompts to enter random words between the actual ones

15:11:28 asciilifeform: novusordo: what prompts? last i saw, 'trezor' had no keyboard

15:11:41 novusordo: the screen will say something like "enter word 1"

15:11:55 asciilifeform: enter using what?

15:11:58 asciilifeform: morse?

15:12:28 novusordo: keyboard

15:12:32 novusordo: on the host computer

15:12:37 asciilifeform: aha.

15:12:56 novusordo: hence why such a recovery system is needed

15:14:02 asciilifeform: novusordo: what does trezor look like to host machine? tty ?

15:16:19 novusordo: not sure, haven't gotten mine to play with yet

15:18:27 MisterE: wow that sparked quite the debate about bitbet

15:20:44 MisterE: Bitbet about outcome of 1K4Fs bitbet!

15:21:41 MisterE: Or make it for 2/3 bets where a bettor is betting both sides.

15:25:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00303 = 0.1454 BTC [+]

15:27:50 thestringpuller: Betting boths sides is a way to adjust exposure? How is that controversial?

15:28:15 thestringpuller: adjust exposure before time-weight effects...

15:28:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07125005 = 0.1425 BTC [-] {2}

15:31:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.00298 = 0.1132 BTC [-]

15:31:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00095373 = 9.728 BTC [-]

15:33:34 mircea_popescu: i dunno.

15:36:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00095355 = 7.5807 BTC [-]

15:39:36 mircea_popescu: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130615094529AAJ01dh

15:39:37 ozbot: My wife was raped my four men. I can't live or be with her with that on my mind. I have to leave her

15:39:44 mircea_popescu: yahoo's pretty good for trollage apparently

15:40:48 chetty: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-25/what-bank-run-china-looks-hundreds-rush-banks-following-solvency-rumors

15:40:49 ozbot: What A Bank Run In China Looks Like: Hundreds Rush To Banks Following Solvency Rumors | Zero Hedge

15:41:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00305 = 0.1525 BTC [+]

15:42:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00088874 = 0.1777 BTC [-]

15:47:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05436663 = 0.1631 BTC [-] {3}

15:48:39 benkay: http://amultiverse.com/comic/2010/08/23/the-crystalline-entity/

15:48:41 ozbot: Scenes From A Multiverse » The Crystalline Entity

15:49:28 benkay: also relevant to Bitcoin: http://amultiverse.com/comic/2010/08/24/welcome-to-the-deathzones/

15:55:31 Mats_cd03: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory lol

15:55:32 ozbot: Chemtrail conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15:56:15 mike_c: paging BingoBoingo: http://bitbet.us/bet/796/an-eastern-conference-team-will-win-the-nba/ let's get some action!

15:59:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.19917759 BTC to 4`379 shares, 50221 satoshi per share

16:01:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05223833 = 0.4701 BTC [-] {6}

16:01:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] [PAID] 50.50848075 BTC to 4`379 shares, 1153425 satoshi per share

16:02:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.05182727 = 0.5701 BTC [-] {4}

16:03:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.05717695 = 0.5146 BTC [-] {7}

16:06:46 blackwhite_: whats a good primer on currency/money? Any book recomendations

16:07:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.0675 = 0.6075 BTC [+]

16:09:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62988799 BTC [+]

16:09:59 thestringpuller: what has the government done with our money

16:10:01 thestringpuller: by

16:10:04 thestringpuller: murray rothbard

16:11:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0529 = 0.1587 BTC [-]

16:11:28 mircea_popescu: perhaps the least understood topic under the sun

16:12:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07100021 = 0.213 BTC [-]

16:13:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.07054545 = 1.552 BTC [-] {3}

16:14:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.0056283 = 0.1407 BTC [+]

16:14:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.0645 = 0.5805 BTC [-]

16:16:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]

16:16:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 20 @ 0.0056283 = 0.1126 BTC [+]

16:16:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 30 @ 0.10144642 = 3.0434 BTC [-]

16:17:47 benkay: kakobrekla, mircea_popescu: where's the bitbet api again?

16:18:12 BingoBoingo: mike_c: You know I dun really do the basketball thing http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/13/an-overview-of-betable-sports-part-2-basketball/

16:18:33 mike_c: benkay: there's a json feed by tacking ?json on the end of the bet url

16:18:36 kakobrekla: benkay http://bitbet.us/bet/786/xyz/?json

16:18:56 kakobrekla: or without xyz as well

16:19:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.05068334 = 0.6082 BTC [-] {6}

16:19:15 mircea_popescu: better w/o the xyz

16:20:03 the20year3: man these banks are idiots

16:20:18 the20year3: Put an offer on a house about 3-4 weeks ago, telling them we could close in a week

16:20:26 mike_c: BingoBoingo: but no point shaving possible here, just 5:1 odds on the eastern conference. that's a good bet.

16:20:43 the20year3: Got a email back the 13th from the bank saying "We are ready to close" , the contract's closing date was the 24th as requested by the bank. 24th has come and gone and still no closing

16:21:04 BingoBoingo: mike_c: I Mr. Stern still the commissioner?

16:21:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07 = 0.14 BTC [-]

16:21:14 mike_c: only for like 2 more months

16:21:48 mike_c: oh nvm, stern left Feb. 1

16:22:05 mircea_popescu: mike_c pm

16:22:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0501 = 0.1503 BTC [-]

16:22:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06 = 0.18 BTC [+]

16:22:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]

16:22:16 mike_c: mircea_popescu: didn't get it..

16:22:30 BingoBoingo: I'm still iffy on the whole NBA thing. Might as well open a bet on who wins the whole Wrestlemania thing.

16:23:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0496 = 0.1984 BTC [-] {2}

16:23:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06 = 0.24 BTC [+]

16:23:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.10144642 = 0.913 BTC [-] {2}

16:23:22 mike_c: hah. nothing wrong with that either :) unless vince mcmahon has some bitcoin

16:24:02 benkay: kakobrekla: is there a convenient way to get a list of all resolved bets besides scrolling down the search page?

16:24:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.05649999 = 0.8475 BTC [-] {3}

16:24:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.05 = 0.35 BTC [+] {2}

16:24:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.10144642 = 0.7101 BTC [-] {2}

16:24:20 BingoBoingo: Still doesn't fit with risk profiles I find betable. You never know who has Bitcoin.

16:24:34 kakobrekla: closed bets rss fee perhaps?

16:24:38 kakobrekla: feed

16:25:06 kakobrekla: sorry, the resolved rss feed

16:25:07 benkay: resolved rss only returns a few recently resolved bet

16:25:10 benkay: bets*

16:25:11 kakobrekla: theres no 'closed' feed

16:25:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.10144642 = 1.0145 BTC [-]

16:25:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.05253333 = 0.3152 BTC [-] {4}

16:25:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]

16:25:46 benkay: and i'm not seeing any pagination handles in the 'resolved' rss

16:25:54 BingoBoingo: http://www.bnd.com/2014/03/25/3127475/postal-workers-intercept-drugs.html

16:25:55 ozbot: Postal workers intercept drugs mailed to metro-east | Top Stories | News Democrat

16:26:15 kakobrekla: myea

16:26:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07 = 0.56 BTC [-] {2}

16:26:49 kakobrekla: i guess we need some ?json on /browse/

16:27:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4383 @ 0.00012319 = 0.5399 BTC [-] {13}

16:28:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1137 @ 0.00012324 = 0.1401 BTC [+] {3}

16:28:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]

16:28:20 benkay: well

16:28:20 benkay: "need"

16:29:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07 = 0.14 BTC [-]

16:29:49 kakobrekla: perhaps the easiest way is to just loop through the ids going from 1 to whatever

16:29:54 kakobrekla: and you will get them all

16:30:25 kakobrekla: the status of the bet is in json

16:30:28 benkay: now that's usin the noggin

16:32:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 45 @ 0.10144642 = 4.5651 BTC [-]

16:34:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22029 @ 0.00095125 = 20.9551 BTC [-] {2}

16:35:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07 = 0.42 BTC [-]

16:38:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

16:40:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3161 @ 0.00095048 = 3.0045 BTC [-]

16:40:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0486 = 0.243 BTC [-] {2}

16:53:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0499 = 0.2495 BTC [+]

16:54:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0503996 = 0.1512 BTC [+] {3}

16:54:50 the20year3: aaaah , buyer package is here

16:56:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00094983 = 14.2949 BTC [-] {2}

17:01:56 pankkake: I am transferring my data from old to new drives, and I started a checksum verification of the tranferred files, for fun. turns out, a lot weren't transferred correctly

17:02:03 mircea_popescu: aaand fraudsters, teh rift guild just went over 1k members

17:02:26 pankkake: I suppose I should blame the hardware… though both are raid6

17:03:10 asciilifeform: pankkake: helps to remember that there is really no such thing as a digital circuit

17:03:16 mircea_popescu: maybe diff checksm implementations ?

17:03:44 asciilifeform: analogue 'expellas furca, tamen usque revenit' !

17:04:24 pankkake: no, it's the same machine, with 12 drives wired. the setup is clearly ghetto (especially the pci-e extenders to reach the drives outside…)

17:05:29 mircea_popescu: ah

17:07:24 asciilifeform: protocol is promise. helps to sometimes ensure promise is being kept.

17:12:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.07021334 = 1.966 BTC [-] {3}

17:12:38 mircea_popescu: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2014/032514-atm-malware-controlled-by-a-280030.html

17:12:45 mircea_popescu: speaking of.

17:13:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 21 @ 0.07000004 = 1.47 BTC [-] {3}

17:13:03 asciilifeform: personally seen several atms with 'bsod'

17:14:41 pankkake: many atms or other kiosk stuff stuck on the "daylight savings" message

17:17:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07 = 1.4 BTC [-] {2}

17:18:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00094952 = 14.1478 BTC [-] {2}

17:19:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05399997 = 0.108 BTC [+] {2}

17:31:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

17:32:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12128 @ 0.00094896 = 11.509 BTC [-] {3}

17:33:07 ThickAsThieves: is there a block visualizer website?

17:39:27 mircea_popescu: what's that ?

17:41:01 ThickAsThieves: something to see how addresses/txs are connected

17:42:07 jurov: blockr has it

17:42:16 jurov: in transaction detail

17:42:23 ThickAsThieves: thx

17:43:58 ThickAsThieves: hmm i dont see "detail" anywhere

17:45:17 nubbins`: mircea_popescu is there a way to exchange btc for whatever the fuck rift uses for currency?

17:45:41 nubbins`: simiar to eve/1btc

17:46:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9141 @ 0.0009457 = 8.6446 BTC [-]

17:46:55 mircea_popescu: sure

17:47:12 mircea_popescu: you give me the btc

17:47:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05399999 = 0.108 BTC [+] {2}

17:48:07 mircea_popescu: also in the news, i took about a week off because of all the press nuttery, during which i stopped buying raw materials

17:48:25 mircea_popescu: now i look at the market, prices fell an average of 40% across all product classes.

17:48:34 mircea_popescu: so i bought like a piggy

17:48:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 127 @ 0.00629561 = 0.7995 BTC [+] {4}

17:49:01 mircea_popescu: i guess im one of the major market foreces there

17:49:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.0543748 = 0.435 BTC [+] {3}

17:49:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0486 = 0.1944 BTC [-]

17:50:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.05499999 = 0.22 BTC [+] {2}

17:50:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16889 @ 0.00094986 = 16.0422 BTC [+] {2}

17:54:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.055 = 0.385 BTC [+] {3}

17:54:44 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.04810005 = 0.1924 BTC [-] {2}

18:01:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62988979 BTC [+]

18:03:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.052 = 0.104 BTC [-]

18:04:57 mike_c: http://www.btcalpha.com/blog/2014/betting-bitbet-both-ways/

18:04:58 ozbot: Betting BitBet Both Ways - Btc Alpha

18:08:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.052 = 0.312 BTC [-] {2}

18:09:30 nubbins`: http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2014-03-25/article-3662653/Man-who-tried-to-choke-daughter-gets-one-year-probation/1

18:09:30 mircea_popescu: mike_c the correct selection for house bets is to take the first three bets of any wager, and exclude one of them

18:09:30 ozbot: Man who tried to choke daughter gets one year probation - Local - The Telegram

18:09:37 mike_c: i wish

18:09:49 mircea_popescu: mike_c the one you exclude a) always has the same output as one of the remainder two and is either made at weight 100k

18:09:50 mike_c: lots of counter-examples to that

18:09:52 MisterE: nice mike_c @

18:09:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11463 @ 0.00095392 = 10.9348 BTC [+] {2}

18:09:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

18:09:59 mircea_popescu: or else at lower weight than the other two

18:10:09 mircea_popescu: but the two you keep always have the exact same weight

18:10:19 mircea_popescu: usually in the 99,995+-2 range

18:10:21 mike_c: *generally

18:10:30 mircea_popescu: now give me a counterexample to that.

18:11:24 mike_c: http://bitbet.us/bet/4/

18:11:25 ozbot: BitBet - US Credit Rating

18:11:57 nubbins`: http://www.thetelegram.com/Living/2014-03-25/article-3661866/Local-artist-using-Ellen-DeGeneres-portrait-as-a-face-for-pro-seal-hunt/1

18:11:58 ozbot: Local artist using Ellen DeGeneres portrait as a face for pro seal hunt - Entertainment - The Telegr

18:11:58 nubbins`: HEH

18:12:09 nubbins`: guy does a portrait of Ellen in a seal pelt

18:12:14 mircea_popescu: mike_c take first 3, exclude 3rd. whay problem ?

18:12:20 mike_c: not the same weight

18:13:05 mircea_popescu: 1. take first 3 bets. 2. exclude one. 2.1 either the 1st, if it has the same exit addy as one of the other 2, and the two have same weight, or else the 3rd.

18:13:31 mircea_popescu: 99`9xx weight = same weight in this sense anyway.

18:14:24 mircea_popescu: ha! the house clears 10% ? i had it pegged at about 8%

18:15:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00095177 = 5.4727 BTC [-] {2}

18:16:18 mircea_popescu: mike_c the point about "it dun really matter so much to correctly identify the house" stands too, for the angle discussed in chat.

18:16:39 mircea_popescu: and nice article. somebody should dump it on reddit.

18:16:48 MisterE: yea good work

18:17:01 El3k0n: Hi guys

18:17:07 mircea_popescu: also Neil ^

18:17:15 mike_c: http://bitbet.us/bet/175/

18:17:16 ozbot: BitBet - BTC/USD at MtGox will stay ABOVE 14.88$ and BELOW 21.46$

18:17:19 mike_c: not one of the first 3

18:17:46 mike_c: thanks MisterE mircea_popescu

18:17:59 BingoBoingo: mike_c: Spectacular write up

18:19:19 mircea_popescu: holy shit you're right.

18:19:21 mircea_popescu: a well, i tried.

18:19:25 mircea_popescu: blame the blockchainz.

18:19:53 benkay: wd mike_c

18:20:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.0009566 = 24.5846 BTC [+] {3}

18:20:14 mike_c: thx. it is cool to look at some of the big winners for the house. the mtgox closure caused a huge one. 0.07 btc -> 1.36 btc

18:20:27 benkay: lol sponsorized

18:21:15 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1324 / 2 * .1

18:21:15 gribble: 66.2

18:21:27 mircea_popescu: yeah hehe

18:21:32 mircea_popescu: spikes on the graph

18:24:45 mircea_popescu: so 66.2 theoretical, 66.16 practical.

18:24:50 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.04 / 66.2

18:24:50 gribble: 0.000604229607251

18:24:58 mircea_popescu: 99.94% i say!

18:26:08 wao-ender: you seems kinda nostalgic here

18:26:14 wao-ender: #firstbets

18:26:59 mircea_popescu: anyway, 5.x btc profit on a 70ish btc budget as a handicapper is really not that bad.

18:27:14 mircea_popescu: this is a living, split x btc on each bet, early.

18:27:37 mike_c: not bad at all. plus you could surely do better by varying your budget on the bets.

18:28:14 mircea_popescu: maybe.

18:28:27 mircea_popescu: perhaps in the sense of varying it 0 - x, binary like

18:28:38 mike_c: yeah, right after i said that i second thought it. lot of the big profits comes from unexpected results.

18:31:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC [+]

18:31:37 mircea_popescu: generally speaking mechanical, constraint betting results in better ev than "feelers".

18:32:01 mircea_popescu: something like "x on winner, half x on loser for all bets" or w/e other strategy

18:32:07 mircea_popescu: people could actually write bots for this.

18:32:12 wao-ender: ^

18:32:22 mircea_popescu: ie, here's a very simple way to have fun as a bright young programmer :

18:32:38 mircea_popescu: write a google search application that finds answers to bets based on queries derived from bet text,

18:32:38 wao-ender: fraudsters^post^request

18:32:39 mircea_popescu: bets

18:32:41 mircea_popescu: see if you win.

18:33:07 mircea_popescu: wao-ender yeah i guess so.

18:33:08 asciilifeform: s.bitbot

18:33:30 wao-ender: we are having this weekend bithack at our hackerspace, wondering if people would like make some betbot

18:33:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform could even have tournaments. who makes the most out of 100 btc or w/e

18:33:45 mircea_popescu: wao-ender this is going to take a year rather than a weekend.

18:33:48 mircea_popescu: it's a fucking hard problem.

18:34:04 wao-ender: lot of math and analyzing of external inputs

18:34:27 wao-ender: but yeah, I can imagine, it could work.

18:34:36 wao-ender: like betting what weather would be tomorrow.

18:34:52 thestringpuller: wao-ender: so you're going to create an AI bot?

18:35:08 thestringpuller: how will you determine conditions?

18:35:20 thestringpuller: or know if propositions are objective? etc. etc.

18:37:21 blackwhite: http://gigaom.com/2014/03/25/irs-declares-that-bitcoin-will-be-taxed-as-property/

18:37:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who needs tournament. the coin would suffice - 'Быть всегда впереди - вот награда твоя!' ('to be always ahead - this shall be your reward!' from well-known sov. song)

18:37:22 ozbot: IRS declares that bitcoin will be taxed as property — Tech News and Analysis

18:38:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07199779 = 0.144 BTC [+]

18:38:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00095821 = 27.2611 BTC [+] {4}

18:38:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly :)

18:39:04 ThickAsThieves: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

18:39:51 ThickAsThieves: If a taxpayer receives a payment in virtual currency, is it considered income?

18:39:52 ThickAsThieves: Yes, the fair-market value of the currency (in U.S. dollars) on the date the payment was received is considered to be income. For more information on exchange rates, see the notice.

18:40:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 887 @ 0.0029547 = 2.6208 BTC [-] {13}

18:43:25 novusordo: took them that long to come up with this?

18:43:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00284176 = 2.8418 BTC [-] {21}

18:43:36 novusordo: not surprised but come on

18:43:37 ThickAsThieves: it doesnt really say how to determine an exchange rate other than to be consistent

18:43:42 asciilifeform: ianal, but nothing shocking here - usg is treating btc the same as gold, cement, bags of xxxxx good

18:44:13 asciilifeform: if you pay in cement, that's traditionally taxable, etc.

18:44:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07199779 = 0.144 BTC [+]

18:45:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 45 @ 0.072 = 3.24 BTC [+]

18:47:03 thestringpuller: What determines receiving BTC as payment?

18:47:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the difference between cement and btc is that i can hit you over the head with the cement.

18:47:38 thestringpuller: If you receive BTC as a gift doesn't a different tax apply?

18:47:44 mircea_popescu: seems to me the only sane treatment of btc is as any other intangible, taxable only upon realisation.

18:47:54 mircea_popescu: i dunno who'd live in a jurisdiction that takes any other tack to the problem, or why.

18:48:04 novusordo: btc dividends?

18:48:17 mircea_popescu: novusordo that's not realisation. when you sell it, you report the income.

18:48:35 novusordo: that's how i've understood it

18:48:51 ThickAsThieves: so if i trade you intellectual proprty for bitcoins, a black hole forms?

18:49:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 86 @ 0.07000009 = 6.02 BTC [-] {4}

18:50:26 ThickAsThieves: how does one discern a reasonable trade value from an unreasonable one?

18:50:34 El3k0n: ThickAsThieves The world financial system implodes

18:51:21 mircea_popescu: ello El3k0n

18:51:24 mircea_popescu: who might you be ?

18:51:51 ThickAsThieves: this guy? https://twitter.com/El3k0n

18:52:16 El3k0n: Yes

18:52:30 ThickAsThieves: he makes random numbers too

18:52:30 mircea_popescu: cool

18:52:38 ThickAsThieves: https://github.com/El3k0n

18:52:50 ThickAsThieves: sick him asciilifeform!

18:53:47 pankkake: that's a horrible random generator

18:53:56 El3k0n: It's a fork

18:54:02 El3k0n: I didn't made that

18:54:34 BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/APStylebook/status/438316517307215874

18:54:35 ozbot: Twitter / APStylebook: AP Style tip: Bitcoin is a ...

18:54:44 BingoBoingo: Related to an earlier discussion

18:55:02 ThickAsThieves: makes sense

18:55:42 nubbins`: can't trust AP style tips anymore

18:55:50 nubbins`: they now allow "over" as a synonym of "more than"

18:55:52 *: nubbins` shakes head

18:55:55 mike_c: that one seems right though

18:56:05 mike_c: the btc one

18:56:41 BingoBoingo: It's what I've been trying to do.

18:57:07 pankkake: nubbins`: why isn't "over" the same as "more than"?

18:57:44 pankkake: I didn't know the AP style guide existed, I've been meaning to read the Economist one

18:57:56 nubbins`: pankkake, it's just not proper english :D

18:58:04 nubbins`: colloquially, it's used the same way

18:58:06 pankkake: yes but WHY :(

18:58:19 nubbins`: well, y'know why is anything the way it is?

18:58:23 nubbins`: why is the table a table?

18:58:31 nubbins`: anyway gotta run, :D

18:59:25 BingoBoingo: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/microsoft-releases-source-code-for-ms-dos-and-word/

18:59:26 ozbot: Microsoft releases source code for MS-DOS and Word | Ars Technica

19:00:43 benkay: plantive whine: "look, we do open source!"

19:00:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15016 @ 0.00095355 = 14.3185 BTC [-]

19:03:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: Microsoft releases source code << carefully calculated insult to the public - dos 1.1

19:04:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And Word 1.1

19:04:03 asciilifeform: plenty of industrial systems, etc. still run on dos 5 and later - but, fortunately, the source (largely asm) was leaked years ago.

19:04:44 pankkake: there's always FreeDOS

19:05:12 asciilifeform: freedos, last i checked, wasn't 'bug for bug compatible' with msdos.

19:06:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.048175 = 0.1927 BTC [-] {3}

19:06:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0545 = 0.218 BTC [-] {2}

19:06:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.10144642 = 0.4058 BTC [-] {2}

19:07:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0476005 = 0.238 BTC [-]

19:08:09 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: i do hope that you don't think me to be some sort of rng hero

19:08:28 asciilifeform: everything there is to know about rng is 1950s state of the art.

19:08:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0471 = 0.1413 BTC [-]

19:08:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.07 = 1.75 BTC [-] {2}

19:08:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.10144642 = 0.5072 BTC [-]

19:09:16 ThickAsThieves: well more that i respect you have better ability to discern proper rng, crypto, etc than i

19:09:21 BingoBoingo: reeses: Bug for Bug compatibility http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/

19:10:22 Duffer1: ciphertrade goes live on friday

19:10:37 Duffer1: they have yet to figure out who gets what percentage...

19:11:15 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/how-to-have-fun-as-an-intelligent-person/

19:11:16 ozbot: How to have fun as an intelligent person pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

19:11:19 mircea_popescu: wao-ender ^

19:11:25 mircea_popescu: tho perhaps not exactly what you had in mind.

19:11:46 Duffer1: that's right, apparently without a contract, multiple people pooled resources to create CipherTrade and didn't figure out who will own what

19:11:58 Duffer1: this will end well i'm sure

19:11:58 wao-ender: mircea_popescu: let me read it

19:12:06 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 as someone said, "not even worth laughing at"

19:12:20 mircea_popescu: course, i think they were talking of something else. inasmuch as there can be "something else" in the swamp.

19:12:40 Duffer1: it must be something else cause to me this is hilarious

19:13:53 wao-ender: well, great reading.

19:14:13 wao-ender: I suggest it as milion dollar idea w/o one dollar, that one dollar you already have in your pocket

19:15:04 mircea_popescu: also requires a head.

19:15:12 wao-ender: not in package.

19:15:13 wao-ender: right

19:15:39 mircea_popescu: but because bitcoin allows such fine payments, you're right, you can do this on a cup of coffee

19:16:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0551 = 0.2755 BTC [+] {2}

19:20:35 thestringpuller: that's one of the best fraudsters articles I've read

19:20:46 thestringpuller: totally worth a fraudsters coin

19:21:01 mircea_popescu: ha!

19:24:18 asciilifeform: perhaps i'm thick, but it still seems to me like the biggest winners on bitbet ought to be folks sitting on the right side of an information asymmetry.

19:24:46 mike_c: that is the case for all parimutuel wagering

19:25:03 asciilifeform: e.g. the ones who 'know', with a good degree of confidence, that difficulty will drop on day x, because they can personally pull the plug on a chinese minerfarm - etc

19:25:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hence the "mine google" approach

19:25:16 mike_c: good handicappers at the racetrack know a shitload more than me about horses.

19:25:17 mircea_popescu: no see, because you confuse information and action here.

19:25:29 asciilifeform: 'mine google' gives a little asymmetry - 'pull plug' - more.

19:25:36 mircea_popescu: that's not information.

19:25:45 mircea_popescu: you are comparing unlike things.

19:26:18 mircea_popescu: in general action (pull plug) is caught in a web of actions

19:26:23 blackwhite: so regarding the bitcoin as property. What does that mean if I get bitcoin for the work I am doing?

19:26:24 mircea_popescu: and information in a web of information

19:26:27 blackwhite: i.e. with me design work

19:26:27 asciilifeform: this is a little like 'moldbug's chessboard' - fight between move-select-via-reddit vs. an actual grandmaster

19:26:37 mircea_popescu: it's unlikely you'll be able to breach the former in order to benefit the latter

19:26:51 mircea_popescu: (trivially, your curiosity as to what's inside a watch isn't worth the pirce of a watch)

19:27:26 asciilifeform: if 'watch' is a west german tank engine, and i'm 'gru', then it is worth 100x the price, no?

19:27:35 mircea_popescu: perhaps.

19:27:46 mircea_popescu: except the price in that edge case is infinity.

19:28:12 ThickAsThieves: the word "generally" appears 8 times in the IRS release

19:28:32 asciilifeform: eh, it was never infinity. not even close to $maxint.

19:28:33 mircea_popescu: so it was prepared by one Gene Rally, esq.

19:28:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you

19:28:41 mircea_popescu: 're thinking theft.

19:28:44 mircea_popescu: think free market.

19:28:59 ThickAsThieves: lol

19:29:06 asciilifeform: actually gru usually bought on the free market

19:29:07 ThickAsThieves: plus 5 generals

19:29:11 asciilifeform: the -really- free market

19:29:20 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, they did not. see, it wasn't a free market, but at the other end of things

19:29:27 asciilifeform: western tech co. wants to sell, forbidden by own government

19:29:32 mircea_popescu: (ie, in a free market neither the gru nor the nazis could have existed)

19:29:36 asciilifeform: polite gentleman offers 100x the usual price

19:29:46 asciilifeform: point

19:30:05 mircea_popescu: so in general arguing "in this inefficient case the inefficiency could be used like so"

19:30:18 mircea_popescu: misses the point that you'd have to construct that inefficiency first, which precludes the use economically.

19:30:53 asciilifeform: i was thinking of a far more mundane aspect, where the best source of info re: the outcome of, say, athletic match, isn't 1000 googles, but the boxer who can decide to 'throw' the match

19:31:10 mircea_popescu: sure, but that's an entire different story than what we're doing here.

19:31:24 mircea_popescu: sort-of like saying "i have no need to use computers because i already know what 2+2 comes to"

19:31:59 asciilifeform: i was assuming that the proposal is about bitbet as it currently exists - where bests in the style of 'boxing match' are heavily represented

19:32:03 asciilifeform: *bets

19:32:33 mircea_popescu: more like a general case.

19:32:56 mircea_popescu: moreover, the whole thing is begging the question. "how do you make money if you know how to make money already ?" "in the manner you know".

19:33:04 mircea_popescu: as opposed to, "how do i make money ?" "like this"

19:33:14 asciilifeform: this reminds me of an idea that i (and probably everybody) had at one point - a betting engine with auto-resolution using google (or some other mechanical process)

19:33:37 mircea_popescu: that's a much harder problem.

19:33:45 asciilifeform: truly.

19:34:10 mircea_popescu: http://24.media.tumblr.com/1a702f2098bece1183afc38a35f98035/tumblr_meylr9rYLe1qmiugko1_1280.jpg

19:34:12 mircea_popescu: have a slut instead.

19:34:19 mircea_popescu: electric tape ftw.

19:34:32 asciilifeform: if it existed, it would gravitationally move the planet's spammers and 'seo' scum the way the moon moves the ocean.

19:35:06 mircea_popescu: lol

19:41:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00095617 = 12.6214 BTC [+] {2}

19:41:29 blackwhite: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html

19:41:30 ozbot: Bitcoin Is Property Not Currency in Tax System, IRS Says - Bloomberg

19:41:32 blackwhite: in danish

19:41:42 blackwhite: Denmark i mean

19:41:43 blackwhite: http://epn.dk/samfund/politik/ECE6587289/afgoerelse-gevinster-fra-bitcoins-er-skattefrie/

19:41:51 blackwhite: IRS just ruled that its not taxable

19:42:01 blackwhite: (the article is in Danish)

19:42:22 asciilifeform: blackwhite: no such thing. the decree sums to 'as taxable as cement'

19:42:39 blackwhite: ?

19:42:47 blackwhite: IRS in Denmark (called Skat)

19:42:52 asciilifeform: ;;google Wickard v. Filburn

19:42:53 gribble: Wickard v. Filburn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn; Wickard v. Filburn | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of ...: http://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1949/1942/1942_59/; Wickard v. Filburn – Case Brief Summary - Lawnix: http://www.lawnix.com/cases/wickard-filburn.html

19:43:05 asciilifeform: required reading to understand how u.s. totalitarian system got its beginning

19:43:14 blackwhite: not sure I understand

19:43:24 blackwhite: The IRS in the US ruled it's property

19:43:30 blackwhite: the IRS in Denmark ruled it's not taxable

19:43:38 asciilifeform: aha denmark

19:43:55 asciilifeform: intro for noobs. in the u.s., the central government was once traditionally limited to regulating 'interstate commerce'

19:44:13 asciilifeform: then, there was a court case, where they ruled that, in essence, a fart is 'interstate commerce'

19:44:19 asciilifeform: because you could have bottled and sold the fart

19:44:32 asciilifeform: and hence it would have affected the price of bottled farts interstate markets

19:44:57 asciilifeform: (anyone who thinks that this is an exaggeration, look up the case)

19:45:41 asciilifeform: the losing side (a farmer) was required to burn his crop.

19:45:59 asciilifeform: because not burning it could affect the market price.

19:46:19 ThickAsThieves: The Court decided that Filburn's wheat growing activities reduced the amount of wheat he would buy for chicken feed on the open market, and because wheat was traded nationally, Filburn's production of more wheat than he was allotted was affecting interstate commerce. Thus, Filburn's production could be regulated by the federal government.

19:47:39 Mats_cd03: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez

19:51:56 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/03/todashev-doj.pdf

19:52:29 asciilifeform: tldr - government report excusing the execution of a famous suspect, claims that he reached for... a sword.

19:52:47 asciilifeform: (extrajudicial execution, naturally)

19:58:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 16 @ 0.10144642 = 1.6231 BTC [-] {2}

20:01:21 asciilifeform: from the loltron:

20:01:21 asciilifeform: https://www.cyberguerrilla.org/blog/?p=17789

20:01:23 ozbot: CyberGuerrilla soApboX » Ukrainian leakage once again.

20:01:43 asciilifeform: (file under 'fiat problems')

20:02:26 Mats_cd03: "While the Assisting Trooper attempted unsuccessfully to draw his handgun" the 2 second rule nearly prevails once again

20:04:08 Mats_cd03: Should've watched tom cruise for pro tips http://youtu.be/UiqwF_Y9S5Q

20:04:27 mircea_popescu: Lawrence Tierney was pretty cool

20:05:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ThickAsThieves amusingly, there was recently a very similar case re milk.

20:05:52 Mats_cd03: Back to Bataan i haven't seen in some time

20:05:57 mircea_popescu: some california producer that made butter out of its own milk was forced to stop selling it because it had an unfair advantage.

20:06:30 asciilifeform: waiting for timoshenko et al to proclaim that yesterday's 'leaked nixon tape' of her asking fellow ua fucktards 'can't we find a nuke with which to cleanse the russian scum' - in perfect russian - is fake

20:06:46 Mats_cd03: Hahaha

20:06:52 jurov: she did already

20:07:24 asciilifeform: jurov: i have this crap set to 'interrupt', not 'poll', so i might be a little behind.

20:08:37 jurov: she apparently tweeted it (but these slovak scumbags did not link it)

20:09:41 mircea_popescu: the consensus in the harem seems to be that these chechen boyz (as typified by todashev) sure are pretty

20:09:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 13 @ 0.05526164 = 0.7184 BTC [-] {3}

20:09:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.04999999 = 0.75 BTC [+] {3}

20:09:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.10144642 = 0.4058 BTC [-]

20:10:01 mircea_popescu: now how the fuck can women tell who the violent males are ? he looks totally harmless to me.

20:10:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're cult figures here in usa. tabloid magazine covers were printed with special magnified mug shots for their wanking.

20:10:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05360007 = 0.1072 BTC [-] {2}

20:10:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.10144642 = 0.2029 BTC [-] {2}

20:11:01 BingoBoingo: http://gawker.com/freejahar-when-conspiracy-theorists-and-one-direction-478152664

20:11:01 ozbot: #FreeJahar: When Conspiracy Theorists and One Direction Fans Collide

20:11:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun think they recognised the face.

20:11:28 BingoBoingo: The younger one has had a Beiber like fanbase for some time since his arrest.

20:12:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

20:14:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00298999 = 0.1435 BTC [-] {2}

20:14:10 ThickAsThieves: i wonder what my tax penalties will be for all that unreported WoW gold

20:14:44 bitcoinpete: I'm just going to quietly leave this here: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/progress-pies-and-profit/

20:15:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.0503988 = 0.4032 BTC [+]

20:15:13 ThickAsThieves: bitcoinpete, did you program your HootSuite to post that to IRC? ;)

20:15:15 diametric: ThickAsThieves: none, since Blizzard explicitly states ownership of the gold belongs to them.

20:15:35 bitcoinpete: It has too many footnotes, too many airquotes, and is a bit long (and therefore error-prone).

20:15:38 mircea_popescu: diametric so how much are THEY paying ?

20:15:44 diametric: Technically USD you made illegitimately would be taxed as income, just as any other illegitimate sale

20:15:51 bitcoinpete: ThickAsThieves: you'd swear! lol

20:16:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.05598999 = 0.3919 BTC [+]

20:16:05 diametric: mircea_popescu: oh none of course since nothing gets realized

20:16:14 mircea_popescu: oh i see. but some WoW gold IS sold for usd.

20:16:20 diametric: not legitimately

20:16:20 mircea_popescu: ;;buy wow gold

20:16:20 gribble: Error: 'wow' is not a valid positive floating point number.

20:16:26 mircea_popescu: ;;google buy wow gold

20:16:26 gribble: IGE.com - WoW Gold - GW2 Gold - D3 Gold - Buy Safe, Fast and ...: http://www.ige.com/; Buy WOW Gold, World of Warcraft Gold, Diablo 3 gold from IGXE.com.: http://www.igxe.com/; Buy WOW Gold,Fast and Cheap WOW Gold for Sale!: http://www.wowgold-sales.com/

20:16:35 mircea_popescu: diametric well, bitcoin is not sold for usd any more legitimately.

20:16:42 mircea_popescu: they're both sold on the grounds of possesion, without title.

20:16:59 mircea_popescu: and actually... wow gold to usd exchanges are older and a lot more stable than btc to usd exchanges.

20:17:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05598999 = 0.112 BTC [+]

20:17:09 diametric: mircea_popescu: in the same way if I stole your TV and sold it, you're not responsible for capital gains on it.

20:17:15 asciilifeform: ianal, but the linked proclamation seems to declare 'legitimacy' for this purpose

20:17:16 diametric: mircea_popescu: people selling wow gold is technically stealing it.

20:17:23 bitcoinpete: ThickAsThieves: I've been keeping up with the logs at least :)

20:17:24 ThickAsThieves: not really diametric

20:17:24 diametric: they need to pay taxes, but blizzard doesn't.

20:17:33 ThickAsThieves: more like if i sold you my checkign account password

20:17:46 mircea_popescu: diametric people selling btc are equally "technically" stealing it.

20:18:01 asciilifeform: it even demands that miners pay tax, the same way farmers are made to

20:18:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.00298999 = 0.2541 BTC [-]

20:18:19 asciilifeform: (afaik it is technically illegal to be a subsistence farmer in the u.s.)

20:18:48 diametric: ThickAsThieves: all of this in Blizzard's eyes constitutes theft of intellectual property

20:19:06 mircea_popescu: but that's really besides the point.

20:19:22 ThickAsThieves: and pretty hard to defend surely

20:19:25 mircea_popescu: people trading wow gold exchange possession without title.

20:19:41 mircea_popescu: people trading btc idem exchange possession without title.

20:19:45 ThickAsThieves: game currency can be shown to have real world value

20:19:59 ThickAsThieves: regardless of issuer and the rules it imposes

20:20:05 diametric: I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm telling you having actually talked to Blizzard's legal team what they believe

20:20:16 diametric: it of course has never been challenged

20:20:17 mircea_popescu: in neither case a representation is made as to transfer of title, which makes blizzard's ip assertions irrelevant.

20:20:19 asciilifeform: my understanding is that selling 'wow gold' is quite like sub-leasing an apartment where the original lease forbade it

20:20:30 mircea_popescu: o i know what they believe.

20:20:41 mircea_popescu: it's just that they can believe in one hand and piss in the other, see which gets warm first.

20:20:42 asciilifeform: in the usa, if someone hands you money, or cement, etc. for whatever reason, it is officially taxable

20:20:51 diametric: asciilifeform: of course

20:20:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but not if someone hands you a dream.

20:20:56 bounce: er. if nobody "owning" WoW gold can hold title then even "stolen" (or traded, or whatever) gold is held without title, and so it canot possibly be theft, now can it?

20:21:00 diametric: which I said those selling the wow gold are liable for taxes

20:21:03 diametric: but not blizzard

20:21:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform again : i can hit you over the head with the cement.

20:21:27 mircea_popescu: diametric bounce has it.

20:21:41 mircea_popescu: either it's not taxable throughout, except for realisation

20:21:45 mircea_popescu: or else blizzard owes tax.

20:21:49 ThickAsThieves: would my monthly WoW fee now be an expense?

20:21:59 Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, you're a WoW player ?

20:22:02 diametric: ThickAsThieves: I don't see why not.

20:22:02 ThickAsThieves: to maintain the value of the gold i hold?

20:22:04 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you could claim that for a long time, actually.

20:22:13 ThickAsThieves: i dont play anymnore

20:22:17 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly to this discussion

20:22:19 ThickAsThieves: i used to

20:22:42 ThickAsThieves: from Burning Crusade to WotLK

20:22:53 asciilifeform: my understanding is, if i'm shot walking on the street, i theoretically owe 9g of Pb worth of tax on the windfall of perfectly good lead.

20:22:56 ThickAsThieves: i bought both gold and accounts

20:23:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is true. but, again, with pb i can hit you over the head.

20:23:33 diametric: I've done a lot of things with WoW over the years before I quit about 3 years ago

20:23:38 ThickAsThieves: and the hospital had commited theft if they did not produce the lead back to the owner

20:23:41 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is not like pb, or oranges, or cement.

20:23:57 jurov: don't give anybody a reason to use silver bullets then

20:24:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

20:24:16 ThickAsThieves: Werewolves Rejoice!

20:24:16 mike_c: if my employer pays me in stock, i owe taxes. can't hit me in the head with that

20:24:19 bounce: well, as long as they steal the tax obligation with it, I suppose I can live with it

20:24:20 diametric: More interesting is EVE, where earned ISK in game can be realized into a membership

20:24:32 the20year3: http://www.kwqc.com/story/25060066/razor-blades-injure-2-year-old-in-east-moline

20:24:37 asciilifeform: i think everyone here is aware of the practical difference btween btc and cement. but the bureaucrats aren't - or will pretend, at any rate, for as long as it remains possible

20:24:42 mircea_popescu: mike_c yep, i can.

20:24:56 ThickAsThieves: Dota 2 gets intricate too, the more i play the more items i get, they provide a market for selling items for USD credit

20:24:56 mircea_popescu: stock is a portion of the business, so i get a brick out of the building that is represented by the stock

20:24:58 mircea_popescu: and hit you with that.

20:25:18 mike_c: it's a zero-asset company :)

20:25:19 mircea_popescu: diametric or rift, same thing.

20:25:20 bounce: at least the tax office rarely is interested in anything but taxability

20:25:30 mircea_popescu: mike_c there exist no fiat zero asset corps.

20:25:36 mircea_popescu: see how neatly this all locks together ? :D

20:26:00 ThickAsThieves: the IRS makes no effort to define a virtual currency either

20:26:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's fine and dandy, but the best way for their pretense to remain standing is for tem to vehehery carefully steer out of the way of their masters.

20:26:26 mike_c: i do see your point, but i agree with ascii. it makes no practical difference since the bureaucrats will not recognize said difference.

20:26:31 mircea_popescu: ie, the people who can piss on the sugar.

20:26:31 bounce: IMO bit of a failing of government to stick to asking whether they can get away with taxing, and not asking whether they should

20:26:37 asciilifeform: my guess is that no serious effort will be made to actually collect the tax. rather, it will be used as a scourge against folks who need to be 'lettre de cachet'-d.

20:26:38 mircea_popescu: mike_c o yes it does.

20:26:45 mircea_popescu: men made out of paper are not to play with matches.

20:26:51 mircea_popescu: irrespective of the relative sizes.

20:28:16 asciilifeform: ;;google three felonies

20:28:17 gribble: Three-strikes law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law; Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent: Harvey ...: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229; Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent: Harvey A ...: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target- (1 more message)

20:28:21 mike_c: asciilifeform: indeed. how exactly would they make an effort to collect anyway? impossible.

20:28:22 asciilifeform: in this spirit

20:28:44 ThickAsThieves: it's also an absurd degree of taxation: say i buy a Walmart Gift Card with btc, i should pay sales tax, gains tax, then the seller reports profit and is taxed, revenue used to pay employees is taxed. then you tack on the accounting burden on both sides, plus the seller's burden as tax collector

20:28:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's bs, imo.

20:29:34 mircea_popescu: specifically : people who are already defeated take into consideration nonsense such as "oh but the feds have a 9x% conviction rate" as a ready-made excuse to settle.

20:29:42 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, five people don't settle and the entire system collapses in flames.

20:30:04 mircea_popescu: it's difficult to overstate just how fragile the entire morloch actually is.

20:30:12 ThickAsThieves: then when you use the gift card all that happens again

20:30:18 mircea_popescu: for all the appearance and pretense of stolid solidity.

20:31:02 asciilifeform: ;;google solzhenitsyn axe

20:31:03 gribble: Quote by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn : And how we burned in the ...: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/34738-and-how-we-burned-in-the-camps-later-thinking-what; Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn Quotes (Author of One Day in the Life of ...: http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/10420.Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn; The Gulag Archipelago - Wikiquote: (1 more message)

20:31:16 mircea_popescu: yeah yeah.

20:31:20 mircea_popescu: there's no stalin running the us.

20:31:31 mircea_popescu: and without an actual man, there's no actual power.

20:31:41 mircea_popescu: just a bunch of sterile 37 yo women running around in circles, wailing.

20:32:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1834 @ 0.00095355 = 1.7488 BTC [-]

20:32:27 asciilifeform: heretic david koresh (sp?) crunched under tank treads, with his men. and yet no stalin.

20:32:29 mircea_popescu: but anyway : the hissing of the serpent is easily ignored, until the point you cross its boundary.

20:33:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 32 @ 0.10144642 = 3.2463 BTC [-]

20:34:06 asciilifeform: morloch << molloch worshipped by morlocks? i like it

20:34:16 mircea_popescu: hehe

20:34:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00298998 = 0.1166 BTC [-]

20:34:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the spirit of that example, 1mn people killed on highways each year, no stalin.

20:35:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]

20:35:31 asciilifeform: that's more in the department of 'Lord Hunger'

20:35:49 asciilifeform: 'Царь Голод' (in the original)

20:36:13 asciilifeform: lord hunger, lord plague, lord 'pileup'

20:36:16 ThickAsThieves: "Google's new cloud storage prices are as low as $0.026 per gigabyte as a flat rate, far below Amazon's lowest offering of $0.037 per gigabyte, which kicks in if you're holding terabytes of data in the AWS cloud."

20:36:28 mircea_popescu: at any rate. the waco debacle has been perhaps the costliest enforcing action by the various bureaus

20:36:41 mircea_popescu: nearly ended the batf

20:37:04 asciilifeform: no more than recent events end nsa

20:37:15 asciilifeform: so a few neon signs get swapped for new ones

20:37:20 asciilifeform: business as usual

20:37:21 mircea_popescu: nsa is pretty much finished, yes.

20:37:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07000012 = 1.4 BTC [-] {2}

20:37:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05598997 = 0.168 BTC [-]

20:37:29 mircea_popescu: not really that simple.

20:37:48 asciilifeform: ;;google Church Committee 1975

20:37:48 gribble: Church Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee; Church Committee Created - US Senate: http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Church_Committee_Created.htm; Church Committee - US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence: http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/churchcommittee.html

20:38:01 asciilifeform: ;;google mk ultra

20:38:02 gribble: Project MKUltra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra; History of MK-ULTRA. CIA program on Mind Control.: http://www.mindspring.com/~txporter/sec3.htm; CIA Mind Control Operation MK-ULTRA - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i46RI2twVao

20:38:17 asciilifeform: afaik all of these folks (or younger successors) are still employed

20:38:21 mircea_popescu: And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with te

20:38:21 mircea_popescu: rror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?

20:38:26 mircea_popescu: quite excellent points.

20:38:27 ThickAsThieves: lol [KS] (KS]@thinks.the.feds.are.investigat.in) has joined #bitcoin-assets

20:38:33 mircea_popescu: brings to mind a spirited debate

20:38:37 mircea_popescu: ;;google fraudsters vina batranilor

20:38:38 gribble: Aprilie 2010 pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/2010/04; Cocietate si Sultura pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: http://fraudsters.com/category/cocietate-si-sultura/

20:38:43 mircea_popescu: meh

20:39:00 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2010/vina-batranilor/

20:39:01 ozbot: Vina batranilor pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

20:40:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that piece seems to be about 'говноеды' ('shit-eaters') no?

20:40:48 asciilifeform: the happily-colonized folks

20:41:17 asciilifeform: 'In examining different kinds of agents, people from the free world who have sold themselves to the GRU, one cannot avoid touching on yet another category, perhaps the least appealing of all. Officially one is not allowed to call them agents, and they are not agents in the full sense of being recruited agents. We are talking about the numerous members of overseas societies of friendship with the Soviet Union.

20:41:17 asciilifeform: Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conversation mi

20:41:18 asciilifeform: ght run as follows: Today we've got a friendship evening with shit-eaters', or Today we're having some shit-eaters to dinner. Prepare a suitable menu'.'

20:41:29 asciilifeform: (rezun's classic 'soviet military intelligence')

20:41:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty much

20:41:59 mircea_popescu: afaik it originated with hruschev

20:42:03 mircea_popescu: always a man of his words.

20:43:47 jurov: and they really thought such foreign policy is sustainable?

20:44:06 jurov: or sustainability is not in russian vocabulary?

20:44:12 mircea_popescu: sorta like all the numerous "ngos"

20:44:16 mircea_popescu: dotting the landscape these days.

20:44:23 mircea_popescu: saving animals and the environment and whatnot.

20:44:39 asciilifeform: afaik most modern despots would be quite satisfied with ancient egypt's 5000 yrs of 'sustain'

20:44:42 mircea_popescu: who thinks the crap is "sustainable" and what's sustainable even mean in that context

20:44:52 asciilifeform: hell, modest '1000 year reich'

20:45:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice how it compresses.

20:45:19 asciilifeform: even these are growing more modest. wait for the 100 year reich. 10.

20:45:27 mircea_popescu: "civitas aeterna"

20:45:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.0009535 = 14.4932 BTC [-]

20:45:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05 = 0.45 BTC [-] {2}

20:45:37 asciilifeform: what is 'startup' crapola if not 'the 1-year reich'

20:45:51 bounce: can just declare the 10 day reich at home then. take two weeks off, nobody notices. success.

20:46:00 mircea_popescu: :D

20:46:16 mike_c: US became boss, what, when USSR dissolved? 20 years so far.

20:46:45 mircea_popescu: mike_c the us was boss roughly speaking 1915 - 1980

20:46:48 bounce: or ten minutes a day, every day. just need staying power.

20:46:50 asciilifeform: reich is not a chess clock.

20:46:56 mircea_popescu: usa and ussr dissolved really at the same time

20:46:59 mircea_popescu: only one admitted to it.

20:47:24 asciilifeform: obligatory:

20:47:25 asciilifeform: http://www.resilience.org/stories/2006-12-04/closing-collapse-gap-ussr-was-better-prepared-collapse-us

20:47:25 ozbot: Closing the 'Collapse Gap': the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the US

20:47:29 bounce: the US found new enemies to fight, as it is wont to do

20:47:43 asciilifeform: colourful pictures, short sentences. works even for children.

20:49:51 bounce: how long did the ottoman empire take to collapse?

20:51:19 asciilifeform: bounce: perhaps you know how long it lives as 'vegetable', on european loans / shared tech / refraining from zapping

20:51:23 asciilifeform: *lived

20:51:40 mircea_popescu: bounce cca a century.

20:51:51 mircea_popescu: as an english buffer of sorts.

20:52:12 asciilifeform: or hell, why turks were invited into nato

20:52:17 asciilifeform: (same reason)

20:52:37 mircea_popescu: actually it was sensible. turkey should have been taken into the eu in 2006

20:52:44 mircea_popescu: that'd have fully avoided the eu crisis.

20:52:56 mircea_popescu: same thing had the us the ballsack to make iraq the 51st state

20:53:02 asciilifeform: lol!

20:53:08 mircea_popescu: thinkaboutit.jpg

20:53:21 mircea_popescu: i know i would have, congress be damned.

20:53:37 bounce: with erdogan in office? bit against what the eu purports to stand for.

20:54:19 mircea_popescu: nobody asks the eu what it wants to stand for tho.

20:54:30 mircea_popescu: the only way to use money in 2006 would have been to lift up turkey.

20:54:32 ThickAsThieves: makes sense to me, you go into a country and have your military running the place for a decade, why not just stake claim?

20:54:33 jurov: how would it avoid the crisis?

20:54:35 mircea_popescu: similarly for dollars and iraq

20:54:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.056 = 0.56 BTC [+]

20:54:43 mircea_popescu: jurov because it gives economy something to do.

20:54:49 mircea_popescu: suddenly there's all these schools to build.

20:54:56 mircea_popescu: all these bank branches

20:55:06 mircea_popescu: and omfg those iraquis don't even get pottery barn catalogs daily ?!

20:55:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me of, in reverse: '...Идет пленум ЦК, Генеральный секретарь читает доклад: Больших успехов достигли хлеборобы Кубанщины, Ставропольщины, Смоленщины, Техасщины, Колорадщины.'

20:55:14 asciilifeform: trans.:

20:55:33 B007: asciilifeform: thanks for that link

20:55:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05039878 = 0.2016 BTC [+]

20:56:16 asciilifeform: [context: pres. carter dreams a bad dream] - 'plenum of central committee. ussr gensec reads report: great successes by the bread farmers of Kuban, Stavropol, Smolensk, Texas, Colorado provinces...'

20:56:29 mircea_popescu: i wonder how long till #bitcoin-assets gets the webby awards for the coolest place on the web

20:56:34 mircea_popescu: o wait, webby no longer exists huh.

20:56:36 mircea_popescu: awww.

20:56:43 asciilifeform: surely not for this.

20:56:50 jurov: so mircea think "cohesion" transfers to turkey would not caouse even bigger crisis?

20:57:00 asciilifeform: i think everyone east of berlin knows that joke

20:57:28 bounce: anyway, apropos churchill re americans, the eurocrats have a good track record of starting the same but finishing in the same way hasn't been in strong evidence

20:58:32 mike_c: webby alive and kicking. https://www.webbyawards.com/

20:58:50 asciilifeform: perhaps we can win a tcpipy. or something.

20:58:52 mircea_popescu: jurov pretty sure it wouldn't, no.

20:59:04 mircea_popescu: mike_c ya but you know what i mean. or do you ?

20:59:05 asciilifeform: ;;google fukuppy

20:59:06 gribble: Meet Fukuppy, the inadvertent Fukushima mascot | World news ...: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/15/fukuppy-fukushima-mascot-japan-fridge-egg-name; Fukuppy, Fukushima Industries new mascot, is branding disaster ...: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/fukuppy-fukushima-industries-new-mascot-is-branding-disaster-8881883.html; Fukushima Industries New 'Fukuppy' (1 more message)

20:59:21 B007: it's hard to image some of those things happening in the us when it collapses because of its private sector though

20:59:26 mike_c: hey, i was nominated for two webbys just 3 years ago :)

20:59:32 mircea_popescu: lmao

20:59:34 bounce: greece is a shambles, but so far hasn't been too good for the eu economy as a whole. how would turkey have been different?

20:59:42 mircea_popescu: in other news, some guy sold 3500 records debuted in the billboard

20:59:46 mircea_popescu: B007 what private sector ?

21:00:08 B007: all the private companies, landlords

21:00:59 mircea_popescu: name one ?

21:01:49 jurov: B007: detroit has had very strong private sector once

21:02:26 mike_c: ^ excellent point.

21:02:55 B007: google

21:04:50 jurov: yeah, google tends to support common good such as... public transport ? :DDD

21:05:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05039878 = 0.1512 BTC [+]

21:06:00 jurov: whole internet pokes fun of google buses by now

21:06:40 mircea_popescu: google is tenuously a private sector corp.

21:06:52 mircea_popescu: it's basically supported by govt-sponsored spending.

21:07:36 jurov: wherever the money comes from, their mindset will be utterly useless in collapse

21:08:14 B007: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_manufacturing_companies_by_revenue

21:08:15 ozbot: List of largest manufacturing companies by revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

21:08:19 mircea_popescu: where the money comes from shapes the mindset.

21:08:30 mircea_popescu: that's why start-ups can be easily destroyed by getting the wrong money sources early.

21:08:44 B007: why would the govt sponser google?

21:08:59 mircea_popescu: general electric, ford and hp are all kept on respirators by public usg spending.

21:09:08 mircea_popescu: B007 because it can't avoid it.

21:09:34 mircea_popescu: tbh procter and gamble may be the first item on that list able to duke it on its own

21:09:44 mircea_popescu: barely top 50

21:09:55 B007: any facts about money google receives from govt?

21:10:54 mircea_popescu: you familiar with the yahoo dotcom boom cycle ?

21:11:34 mircea_popescu: (if not, graham explains it better than i could : http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html )

21:15:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07379499 = 0.1476 BTC [-]

21:15:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]

21:15:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.0029 = 0.1044 BTC [-]

21:17:35 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: quite enjoyed your fun article. the sizes of the gaps between those layers is nothing to sneeze at :)

21:18:02 TestingUnoDosTre: <B007>: interesting list, never heard of Hon Hai Precision Industries before

21:18:59 mircea_popescu: should have a bet as to wehen the first bitcoin corp makes the top

21:19:09 bounce: holding corp of... foxconn, wasn't it?

21:19:44 bitcoinpete: http://venturebeat.com/2014/03/25/kraken-a-bitcoin-exchange-raises-5m/

21:19:44 ozbot: Kraken, a Bitcoin exchange, raises $5M | VentureBeat | Deals | by J. O'Dell

21:20:08 bitcoinpete: apologies if repost

21:22:10 B007: so if google in the next yahoo, who is the next google?

21:22:22 mircea_popescu: yeah hon hai is mostly foxconn

21:22:27 mircea_popescu: funny how it ranks above apple.

21:22:33 mircea_popescu: B007 mpoe.

21:25:12 TestingUnoDosTre: <bounce> looks like you're correct

21:27:50 mircea_popescu: "If circumstances had been different, the people running Yahoo might have realized sooner how important search was. But they had the most opaque obstacle in the world between them and the truth: money."

21:27:56 mircea_popescu: epic quote.

21:28:05 mircea_popescu: lampelina and who might you be ?

21:29:22 mike_c: lampelina runs b-a.com now. hopefully she will remove the password requirement soon ;)

21:29:48 asciilifeform: http://forums.3dtotal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168068 ?

21:30:38 jurov: hehe

21:31:04 jurov: no they guessed right that advertising is important. search is "only" the precursor for the addiction

21:32:59 bounce: TestingUnoDosTre: I didn't say that

21:33:39 mircea_popescu: haha

21:33:43 thestringpuller: lole MPOE is not an options emporium anymore

21:33:48 thestringpuller: lolololol

21:38:12 B007: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/irs-bitcoin-is-property-like-a-stock-or-bond-and-not-a-currency/

21:38:12 ozbot: IRS: Bitcoin is property, like a stock or bond, and not a currency | Ars Technica

21:38:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.61076841 = 10.3831 BTC [-] {8}

21:38:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07379689 = 0.1476 BTC [+]

21:45:24 B007: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/397-billion-fighter-jet-deployment-may-be-delayed-by-software-glitches/

21:45:27 ozbot: $397 billion fighter jet deployment may be delayed by software glitches | Ars Technica

21:45:54 asciilifeform: B007: since when, 1970? it's the same airplane every time

21:46:09 mircea_popescu: lol

21:46:46 mike_c: it's good to be lockheed.. best lobbyists in the industry.

21:46:57 lampelina: mike_c, will do my best for site to be up asap

21:47:06 benkay: thestringpuller: 'mpoe' is now an artifact of history

21:47:19 mircea_popescu: soo... inb4 500 bitcointalk threads where all sorts of experts explain how mp was indeed right and they were indeed clueless ?

21:48:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1465 @ 0.00013502 = 0.1978 BTC [+] {4}

21:49:03 mike_c: lampelina: no rush, just teasing. good luck running it.

21:49:38 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/lampelina ftr

21:49:39 ozbot: Maja L. (lampelina) on Twitter

21:51:01 mircea_popescu: "It's hard for anyone much younger than me to understand the fear Microsoft still inspired in 1995."

21:51:03 mircea_popescu: ehehehe

21:51:17 mircea_popescu: i think it'll be hard for anyone born after 1990 or so to even understand fear.

21:53:10 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129759496251093@naggum.no.html

21:53:10 ozbot: Re: A draft business plan for free software LISP vendors - Naggum cll archive

21:53:14 B007: what is fear?

21:53:18 asciilifeform: (re: microshit)

21:53:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05039673 = 0.1512 BTC [+]

21:54:01 mircea_popescu: B007 fear is when you understand what kills you before it actually does.

21:54:24 mircea_popescu: just another way of not being dumb as rocks, as it were.

21:54:37 asciilifeform: on the flip side of this, 'coward dies a thousand deaths, brave man - one'

21:54:59 mike_c: say what you will about "microshit", but bill gates was/is a hell of a businessman.

21:55:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a brave man and a fearless man don't map well.

21:55:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00095273 = 6.4309 BTC [-]

21:55:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05039873 = 0.1008 BTC [+] {2}

21:55:42 mike_c: he justifiably instilled more fear than steve jobs ever did.

21:55:43 asciilifeform: well yes. the latter is more like the famous disease where the victim cannot feel pain.

21:56:25 asciilifeform: mike_c: the microshit style of 'doing business' goes a long way to explaining the popularity of communism, etc. among technical types.

21:56:33 mike_c: whaat?

21:56:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0560714 = 0.3925 BTC [+] {3}

21:56:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

21:56:48 mike_c: how so?

21:56:54 mircea_popescu: "nobody should have the power to tell us what to do"

21:57:21 BingoBoingo: Does S.NSA have a LISP fighter jet in its long term plans?

21:57:25 mike_c: nobody does have the power to tell the powerful what to do. mp has stated that some 5 million times.

21:57:36 asciilifeform: the notion that ms turdware is a product of any kind of free market or competition on technical merit is a real comedy.

21:57:40 mircea_popescu: mike_c but how dares microsoft tell x y z ppl what to do!

21:57:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.04710002 = 0.1884 BTC [-]

21:57:54 mircea_popescu: "well ithas the money" "well then money is bad"

21:57:58 mike_c: asciilifeform: hence his business acumen.

21:58:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's argue this.

21:58:47 mircea_popescu: when microsoft was born, ibm was much larger. how did it eat ibm's lunch ?

21:58:47 asciilifeform: mike_c: by that token, we should look up to 1990s russian mob as business teachers. 'take contract on creditor when cheaper than paying back loan', rectothermal cryptoanalysis, the joys.

21:59:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i presume you know the story of msdos

21:59:16 mike_c: microsoft didn't shove a cattle prod up anyone's ass.

21:59:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do. what part of that is not free market ?

21:59:37 asciilifeform: inherited ibm's monopoly

21:59:43 mircea_popescu: why didn't you ?

21:59:44 asciilifeform: ultimately usg sponsored.

22:00:43 asciilifeform: and if that were the end... then, bundling pacts with pc makers, the collusion with intel to kill 'os/2' (secret cpu instructions), many other wonderful things

22:00:59 diametric: i miss os/2.

22:01:11 mircea_popescu: so these are not free market ?

22:01:45 asciilifeform: i suppose ms turdows being mandatory os of usg is also free market ?

22:01:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0564999 = 0.226 BTC [+]

22:01:55 mircea_popescu: it wasn't born that way.

22:02:08 mike_c: ^ i think you are underestimating what it took to build the monolopy.

22:02:12 mircea_popescu: so now, the "competition on technical merit" leg of your statement, i see

22:02:17 mircea_popescu: the free market leg however, i do not.

22:02:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0564999 = 0.113 BTC [+]

22:02:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.10144642 = 0.2029 BTC [-]

22:03:26 mircea_popescu: i'll readily grant that it didn't operate in any kind of free market in the 90s. but your statement was as of product

22:04:51 asciilifeform: it is no coincidence, though, that ms became synonymous with 'home computer' in the 90s and not earlier.

22:05:28 mircea_popescu: it may be.

22:05:32 mircea_popescu: for instance, if jobs weren't an idiot.

22:06:10 mircea_popescu: shitty macs could have been synonymous with home computer

22:06:15 asciilifeform: much of what people think of as 'dark age' of apple corp. took place without herr jobs

22:06:16 mircea_popescu: with much, much worse overal effects.

22:06:29 mircea_popescu: fucktards running tablets today don't even realise they should be able to interact with their hard drives

22:06:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is sucvh a thing as idiocy through absence.

22:07:17 asciilifeform: the outcome, unsurprisingly, was the death of apple corp. (it does not really exist today, just 'next' corp. renamed 'apple')

22:07:28 mircea_popescu: come to think about it, i don't know there's something in the world i ever hated more than a mac, and in this sense a ms-dos pc seems a muchly preferable alternative.

22:07:30 mike_c: the 'dark age' of apple would have been the 'no apple' age if microsoft hadn't given them money to keep them alive.

22:07:57 mircea_popescu: so perhaps it was quite free market : we just got the better alternative, which sucked.

22:08:19 mircea_popescu: the general idiocy of "the community" ie, the paying public, being the field on which technical solutions have to live.

22:08:42 asciilifeform: msdos was in some very real sense 'soviet' - as in, all the known joys, but a kid can build explosive xxxx at his parents' dacha without being harassed

22:08:48 mircea_popescu: mike_c which kind-of explains WHY microsoft kept apple alive.

22:09:07 mircea_popescu: any sane dog will keep the wolf alive.

22:09:22 asciilifeform: in america this tactic has a name:

22:09:26 asciilifeform: 'good cop / bad cop'

22:09:30 mircea_popescu: democratic party ?

22:09:31 mircea_popescu: aok.

22:09:44 mike_c: keeping apple alive prevented more DOJ attention at the time.

22:09:52 mircea_popescu: in soviet russia this also has a name. vrag naroda etc.

22:09:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.10144642 = 0.5072 BTC [-]

22:09:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.073798 = 0.6642 BTC [+]

22:10:10 mircea_popescu: mike_c my meta-point is that, even if not epxlicit, what it really did was it kept people like me pacified

22:10:17 mike_c: hah. gotcha.

22:10:18 mircea_popescu: that'd otherwise have taken a flamethrower at redmond

22:10:34 mircea_popescu: you know, simply shot gates, instead of merely throwing pies.

22:10:46 bounce: er. should kids on tablets be able to interact with the hard drive? it's a bit like asking if drivers should be able to interact with their motor. plenty people prefer stick. esp. in the us plenty people *cannot drive* without automatic

22:11:00 mircea_popescu: what's a free market other than an endless caleidoscope of a mexican standoff

22:11:21 mircea_popescu: bounce also known as "plenty of people in the us cannot drive"

22:11:40 asciilifeform: ;;google good cop/bad cop

22:11:40 gribble: Good cop/bad cop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_cop/bad_cop; Good cop bad cop (disambiguation) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_cop_bad_cop_(disambiguation); Beyond Good Cop/Bad Cop: A Look At Real-Life Interrogations : NPR: http://www.npr.org/2013/12/05/248968150/beyond-good-cop-bad-cop-a-look-at- (1 more message)

22:11:49 bounce: no need to generalise the point in obvious irrelevancy though

22:11:55 bounce: s/in/&to/

22:12:07 mircea_popescu: i guess.

22:12:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05039859 = 0.1008 BTC [+]

22:13:10 *: bounce recalls reading someone lamenting the world didn't go the wossname "persistent" route -- run a program, it'd auto-save to disk. next time you start it, auto-picks up where you left it. but on full OS level.

22:13:53 mircea_popescu: some of the early memories kinda worked this way

22:13:56 bounce: in such an environment it's perhaps easier to see a different abstraction than the "files in directories on drives" we more or less take for granted

22:13:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

22:13:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05039871 = 0.252 BTC [+] {2}

22:14:00 asciilifeform: bounce: as described in my piece, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=231

22:14:00 mircea_popescu: geting the damned thing to actually reboot was hell

22:14:16 asciilifeform: bounce: it has a name. 'orthogonal persistence'

22:14:37 bounce: hm think I read about it elsewhere

22:14:45 asciilifeform: you can actually get nonvolatile memories that work at dram speeds now.

22:14:51 asciilifeform: ;;google MRAM

22:14:52 gribble: Magnetoresistive random-access memory - Wikipedia, the free ...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoresistive_random-access_memory; MRAM-Info | MRAM News, Resources & Information: http://www.mram-info.com/; Everspin Technologies, Inc.: http://www.everspin.com/

22:14:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0565 = 0.226 BTC [+]

22:15:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05039879 = 0.252 BTC [+]

22:15:03 bounce: anyway, with flash-backed ram those days could be here again

22:15:12 mircea_popescu: also, an illustrative example of why losing weight sucks : http://24.media.tumblr.com/598ef10d6c81db95e785eb68a843857a/tumblr_mlvfgm6KdJ1r0cci7o1_1280.jpg

22:15:24 asciilifeform: they could. but you'd have to incinerate the legacy turdware.

22:15:29 asciilifeform: and probably legacy cpu archs.

22:16:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05039879 = 0.2016 BTC [+] {2}

22:16:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or simply find a different application

22:16:47 mircea_popescu: this discussion neatly maps on the cellphone/landline discussion.

22:16:54 mircea_popescu: sometimes one gets a chance to start over.

22:17:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0504 = 0.2016 BTC [+] {3}

22:17:03 asciilifeform: correct.

22:17:31 asciilifeform: genuinely starting over, even in an embedded machine, has cost. see apple's 'newton'.

22:17:39 mircea_popescu: but sometimes that's unavoidable

22:17:50 mircea_popescu: as in, well, this application will require a start-over anyway

22:17:54 mircea_popescu: for x y z unrelated reasons

22:18:00 bounce: has risks though, qv second system effect

22:18:00 mircea_popescu: so might as well try something else.

22:18:36 mircea_popescu: bounce i suspect that risk is mostly mitigated by stalin

22:18:42 mircea_popescu: which is why stalin even exists in the first place.

22:19:26 bounce: 'sdies, even without need you can, iff you have some vision or other to back it up. that's apparently a rare thing, seeing how there's only only jobs and a fsckton of imitators and NIH-botching immitators

22:19:46 mircea_popescu: indeed

22:19:50 mircea_popescu: what's 'sdies ?

22:19:58 asciilifeform: bounce: one of the purposes of stalin is to distinguish between imitators and the genuine article.

22:20:05 bounce: s/di/id/

22:20:37 bounce: this the bloody-handed dead guy or some metaphor I'm missing a reference to?

22:20:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or moreover, to make sure that none of the imitators survive

22:21:03 mircea_popescu: (even should it come at a cost of a few genuine heads impaled)

22:21:14 asciilifeform: well, that follows naturally, no?

22:21:38 asciilifeform: once you determine what part of a kitchen is a cockroach and which parts aren't, the next step is clear

22:21:39 mircea_popescu: indeed

22:21:56 mircea_popescu: bounce i used it as a metaphor for a guy who says "you do what i tell you or i kill you" and then proceeds to stick to his word.

22:22:47 bounce: oh. AIUI he'd be wont to kill you for reasons entirely outside your control, too. well perhaps that's apt too.

22:23:03 mircea_popescu: surely he will.

22:23:17 mircea_popescu: one of the chief complaints of my slavegirls is that they have no measure of control over x

22:23:27 mircea_popescu: and my response invariably comes back as "tough".

22:23:53 bounce: you more or less sound like that turkish guy in one of the bond novels

22:24:36 benkay: mircea_popescu regarding weight loss: what, everything sags a little?

22:24:54 mircea_popescu: HOYT: State your name.

22:24:54 mircea_popescu: SOUP NAZI: Yev Kassem.

22:24:54 mircea_popescu: HOYT: Could you spell that?

22:24:54 mircea_popescu: SOUP NAZI: No! Next question.

22:25:08 bounce: not being in control and getting punished for things not under your control are different things though

22:25:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9952 @ 0.00095181 = 9.4724 BTC [-] {2}

22:25:10 mircea_popescu: benkay those thighs ;/ they look unwomanly.

22:26:04 mircea_popescu: bounce well if you're dealing with stalin, you're not getting punished.

22:26:07 mircea_popescu: you're getting killed.

22:26:13 Mats_cd03: i find the boobies to be the most erotic part of the woman

22:26:30 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 meet my friend freud, he has some observations to make.

22:27:09 Mats_cd03: does your friend freud have boobies?

22:27:44 B007: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2014#551356 guys it happend

22:27:47 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

22:27:48 mircea_popescu: largest collection in all of vienna

22:28:19 mircea_popescu: B007 o.O

22:28:23 mircea_popescu: mind control!

22:28:35 B007: I wish

22:29:06 mircea_popescu: my friend freud says that since you said it just as i was going to bed, clearly it's the case.

22:29:30 B007: did you dream it

22:29:49 mircea_popescu: mnope.

22:29:51 Mats_cd03: let me know if freud is any good in bed

22:30:11 benkay: ;;seen ninjashogun

22:30:12 gribble: ninjashogun was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 hours, 29 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <ninjashogun> hi, asciilifeform

22:30:20 asciilifeform: lol

22:30:22 benkay: ;;seen CheckDavid

22:30:23 gribble: CheckDavid was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 hours, 37 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <CheckDavid> Haha

22:30:27 mircea_popescu: how to ping random people for fun and profit

22:30:46 benkay: there's some interesting synchronous behavior.

22:31:29 mircea_popescu: i dig BingoBoingo's twitter background

22:32:28 CheckDavid: benkay: @

22:32:33 CheckDavid: *?

22:32:34 CheckDavid: Lol

22:33:42 bounce: I don't suppose there'd be a way to get a ban for selling wow gold overturned on the grounds that blizzard isn't paying taxes over it

22:34:12 diametric: haha

22:34:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 106 @ 0.00282912 = 0.2999 BTC [-] {6}

22:34:34 diametric: bounce: my experience is banned accounts almost always stay banned, unless you can convince someone you were hacked.

22:35:15 B007: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/03/facebook-purchases-vr-headset-maker-oculus-for-2-billion/

22:35:15 ozbot: Facebook purchases VR headset maker Oculus for $2 billion | Ars Technica

22:35:18 diametric: in my experience, i was special banned, and almost sued

22:35:19 B007: nooooooooooooooooooo

22:35:34 diametric: B007: it is a sad day.

22:36:04 diametric: that belong on the onion..

22:36:15 benkay: zuck wants to point and laugh at carmack the code monkey

22:36:39 bounce: "hacked". anyway.

22:36:55 mircea_popescu: diametric lol you sold wow gold ?

22:37:04 diametric: mircea_popescu: nope

22:37:20 bounce: only $400M and a sack of fool's gold

22:37:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05402103 = 0.108 BTC [-] {2}

22:37:35 benkay: really?

22:37:48 benkay: whatsapp for 16b and oculus rift for 400m?

22:37:54 diametric: though after they banned me I was very tempted to rape their policies in as many ways as I could.

22:38:11 benkay: that's damn insulting.

22:38:46 diametric: benkay: they didn't buy whatsapp for 16b, they bought 450 million users.

22:40:14 bounce: $4G + shares and things, apparently

22:42:01 diametric: ;;ident diametric

22:42:01 gribble: Nick 'diametric', with hostmask 'diametric!~diametric@2604:3400:dc1:43:216:3eff:fe27:bf9d', is identified as user 'diametric', with GPG key id BDD47433133081CF, key fingerprint 0789CB4F508B384EB74CEFBFBDD47433133081CF, and bitcoin address None

22:43:05 benkay: ;;calc 16000000000/450000000

22:43:06 gribble: 35.5555555556

22:43:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0568 = 0.1704 BTC [+]

22:44:03 diametric: mircea_popescu: i didn't sell gold, but i did other things that caused them to actually track down my place of employment via linkedin and try to have my fired. I should actually state it wasn't Blizzard. Blizzard was not bad about it, it was the brass as Activision.

22:44:29 mircea_popescu: eh

22:44:36 diametric: I have since decided maintaining a linked in profile is a bad idea.

22:44:42 mircea_popescu: why ?

22:44:56 mircea_popescu: if some random schmucks manage to get you fired you're better off weithout the idiots anyway.

22:45:17 diametric: well, I was never actually in danger of getting fired, I just did not enjoy having that much personally identifiable information hanging out there.

22:45:38 bounce: if you look at the (wikipedia) list of acquisitions it's the userbase they pay most for. actual tech doesn't sell well, databases full of users do.

22:46:13 B007: ;;ident B007

22:46:13 gribble: Nick 'B007', with hostmask 'B007!~B007@unaffiliated/b007', is not identified.

22:46:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0509 = 0.2545 BTC [+]

22:48:00 diametric: mircea_popescu: though, I guess they ultimately did me a favor. It broke my addiction to MMOs and gaming in general, though I do play casually from time to time.

22:48:50 mircea_popescu: as far as i can remember i always used tos as toilet paper and never suffered for it.

22:49:19 benkay: great thing about the USG is that there's enough ToS for an entire lifetime of butt wiping.

22:49:29 benkay: and the service ain't that great anyways so fuck 'em.

22:49:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 20 @ 0.10144642 = 2.0289 BTC [-]

22:50:06 punkman: http://www.coindesk.com/moolah-founder-accidently-donates-20-million-dogecoin-to-sponsor-nascar-driver/

22:50:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0554 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {2}

22:51:24 mircea_popescu: at some point dodgy promoters are going to run out of angles to try and spamvertise donations. then what ?

22:51:46 punkman: they'll never run out

22:52:48 mircea_popescu: ;;google doge coins through wide angle lens!

22:52:48 gribble: Camera Lenses | Nikon Digital Camera Lenses | NIKKOR Lens Optics: http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Camera-Lenses/index.page; We test the Vtec Wide Angle and Macro Lens for iPhone 4: http://www.photographymonthly.com/News-and-Reviews/2012/2/We-test-the-Vtec-Wide-Angle-and-Macro-Lens-for-iPhone-4; Insert Coin: Piper melds home automation and security in a simple ...: (1 more message)

22:53:06 asciilifeform: lol:

22:53:07 asciilifeform: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-Aerospace/PC4-200P/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvffgRu4KC1Rym5G2e07AhcHXsxtPpqbeA%3d

22:53:07 ozbot: PC4-200P Amphenol Aerospace | Mouser

22:53:10 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc4DNmq-y8M

22:53:11 ozbot: Craig Show - Animals close-up with a wide angle lens - YouTube

22:53:19 asciilifeform: not every day you see a golden toilet in a catalogue.

22:56:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.05689999 = 0.5121 BTC [+] {2}

23:11:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.0009523 = 14.6654 BTC [+] {3}

23:12:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3433 @ 0.00095088 = 3.2644 BTC [-]

23:19:52 dexX7: gribble: can you tell me what 4 pm et in utc is?

23:20:21 asciilifeform: dexX7: gribble is mechanical.

23:20:58 *: asciilifeform pictures some wretch, perhaps in india, employed as a human gribble.

23:21:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.05400053 = 0.216 BTC [-] {3}

23:21:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6771 @ 0.00095088 = 6.4384 BTC [-]

23:21:10 dexX7: haha i know

23:21:58 asciilifeform: if hieronymous bosch were alive today, painting pictures of the torments of the damned in hell, perhaps he'd feature a human disk controller

23:22:08 asciilifeform: moving bits in a wheelbarrow, for all eternity

23:24:13 mircea_popescu: ;;google 4pm et in utc

23:24:14 gribble: Converting EST to GMT - World Time Buddy: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/est-to-gmt-converter; Converting UTC to EST - World Time Buddy: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/utc-to-est-converter; Converting EST to UTC - World Time Buddy: http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/est-to-utc-converter

23:25:10 dexX7: ty, i guess it's only a matter of the right question ;)

23:25:37 mike_c: that's weak. it does measurements for you. i guess timezones aren't as popular

23:25:49 mike_c: ;;google 4mm to inches

23:25:49 gribble: inch/mm CONVERSION CHART - Maryland Metrics: http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm; Rings & Things - Converting inches to millimeters: http://www.rings-things.com/resources/inch-mm.html; mm to inches - millimeters conversion: http://www.metric-conversions.org/length/millimeters-to-inches.htm

23:25:57 mike_c: hm, gribble doesn't support it anyway

23:26:26 bounce: ;;calc 0.4*2.54

23:26:26 gribble: 1.016

23:26:36 mike_c: gribble > google

23:26:45 bounce: that can't be right

23:26:49 mike_c: it's not :)

23:26:57 bounce: ;;calc 2.54/0.4

23:26:57 gribble: 6.35

23:27:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 140 @ 0.00294126 = 0.4118 BTC [+] {8}

23:27:52 mike_c: ;;calc 4/25.4

23:27:52 gribble: 0.157480314961

23:28:21 bounce: right. time for bed.

23:30:51 asciilifeform: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/irs-bitcoin/

23:30:51 ozbot: New IRS Bitcoin Rules Pose a Problem Only an Army of Startups Can Solve | Wired Enterprise | Wired.c

23:30:56 asciilifeform: (for the headline lulz)

23:31:57 asciilifeform: '?I think this is going to create a huge opportunity for hosted wallets,? says Jered Kenna, a bitcoin entrepreneur and the CEO of Moneyandtech.com. He believes that the smart bitcoin wallet makers will simply be able to add this as a service, tracking the capital gains and losses as you spend your bitcoins through the year, and maybe even issuing you a convenient 1099 at the end of the year.'

23:32:12 asciilifeform: on what planet do people want this.

23:32:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 9 @ 0.08220512 = 0.7398 BTC [-] {5}

23:34:06 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: On the planet where the rectothermal is repackaged as a fashionable relaxation on par with massage and enemas here.

23:34:15 benkay: the planet where the führer's shit is the only cake you've ever eaten.

23:35:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16821 @ 0.00095007 = 15.9811 BTC [-]

23:36:08 jurov: yall don't understad. They are Proudly Officially Recognized for once!

23:36:48 asciilifeform: many years ago, a 'seedy' and much-beloved bar in my town was torched at night, by unknown saboteurs. the local rag proclaimed that 'this is an opportunity! the land will be put to good use by respectable developers!'

23:37:03 asciilifeform: ever since, whenever i see the english word 'opportunity' in the idiot press, i think of just this.

23:37:46 asciilifeform: in other news: in california it is illegal to teach - anything - without a permit:

23:37:48 asciilifeform: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/01/california-hacker-bootcamps

23:37:51 ozbot: California Cracks Down on Hacker Boot Camps | Wired Enterprise | Wired.com

23:38:12 benkay: learning is illegal

23:38:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2640 @ 0.00281087 = 7.4207 BTC [-] {13}

23:38:49 jurov: since fucking is, everything follows

23:39:51 Apocalyptic: fucking is illegal now N

23:40:20 mircea_popescu: yeah, jared kenna

23:40:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]

23:40:24 jurov: in the US most of it is

23:40:27 mircea_popescu: the guy who stole a bunch of customer funds

23:40:45 mircea_popescu: and then ran off and made a real estate development which floundered

23:40:54 mircea_popescu: and then tried to come back to bitcoin for more and got smashed

23:41:08 mircea_popescu: and now imagines somehow he'll be allowed to hold customer funds.

23:41:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17750 @ 0.00094728 = 16.8142 BTC [-] {2}

23:42:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7431 @ 0.00094721 = 7.0387 BTC [-]

23:42:27 BingoBoingo: Well, it's by the Wired guy who got pissy on twitter.

23:42:55 jurov: kenna strives to have his scam documented in IRS-compliant manner

23:43:08 jurov: and that will be his undoing

23:44:37 mircea_popescu: eh, currently the usg policy is something along the lines of "well why put away the scammers, they're useful players"

23:44:59 mircea_popescu: in that you can always have them inform on anyone else stupid enough to be in business with them.

23:46:13 mircea_popescu: as far as the alphabet soup is concerned, the ideal situation is to have everything penetrated by people like kenna.

23:46:54 mircea_popescu: on one hand they're scum anyway, so not likely they'll suddenly discover a backbone, and on the other hand even if they were to try you already have enough on them to put them away for a long, long time.

23:47:10 asciilifeform: this is the phoundation in 1 sentence.

23:47:35 mircea_popescu: myeah.

23:47:38 asciilifeform: it's why 'gox == btc' in the us press, etc.

23:47:49 mircea_popescu: the problem with this, of course, is that it doesn't actually work.

23:48:01 mircea_popescu: which is the fundamental reason why stuff like the wot and otc trade and so forth are so important.

23:49:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14079 @ 0.00095052 = 13.3824 BTC [+]

23:49:47 ninjashogun: Google Securities Act Section 2(a)(1) and read the first sentence

23:49:56 ninjashogun: Google: "Securities Act Section 2(a)(1)" and read the first sentence

23:50:12 ninjashogun: and Google: "Exchange Act Section (3)(a)(10)" and read the first sentence (of the pdf)

23:50:25 BingoBoingo: ;;google Securities act

23:50:26 gribble: Securities Act of 1933 - Securities and Exchange Commission: https://www.sec.gov/about/laws/sa33.pdf; Securities Act of 1933 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_Act_of_1933; Securities Act Of 1933 Definition | Investopedia: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/securitiesact1933.asp

23:51:08 ninjashogun: "Mr. Viragh, \p If it constitutes a security, yes. \pThe definition of security is included in Securities Act Section 2(a)(1) and Exchange Act Section (3)(a)(10). In addition, the term ?investment contract? has been further defined by court cases. While the determination that ?stocks? and ?bonds? are securities may be fairly simple (because they are specifically named in these definitions), the determination

23:51:08 ninjashogun: as to whether something is an investment contract is a fact-specific analysis. \p The Division of Trading and Markets "

23:51:26 ninjashogun: (at the SEC.)

23:52:02 ninjashogun: I asked about accepting bitcoin for shares on my site - since it's "play money" (monopoly money) that is PC software and anyone can run it (like a video game) to generate the virtual internet coins.

23:54:00 ninjashogun: PDF of the original Securities Act (relevant section): https://www.sec.gov/about/laws/sa33.pdf PDF of Exchange Act: https://www.sec.gov/about/laws/sea34.pdf