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Transcript for 25-03-2015, 2402 lines:

00:01:45 pete_dushenski: aramark funken blows

00:01:56 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067650 << guy that brought singapore from just under india to just above uk through five decades of caning.

00:01:56 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:28:54; asciilifeform: in other news, lee kuan yew is dead

00:04:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00021681 = 2.6559 BTC [+] {2}

00:04:54 pete_dushenski: singapore is now apple without steve jobs

00:05:38 mircea_popescu: well, going to china anyway

00:06:40 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067669 << quite. except, there's a difference between understanding and controlling.

00:06:40 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:45:18; nubbins`: put another way: those who are unable to judge the character/nature of others are more likely to wish for escape, and their disability follows them to their new life, where they make the same sort of mistakes they'd make at home

00:08:35 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067693 "You're not seeing "a kid" that "made" "X money" with "a story". You're seeing an economic process. It's an ad. It converts to some degree, like any ad."

00:08:35 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:56:10; asciilifeform: reminds me of how when clinton was half-heartedly prosecuting microshit for antitrust violations, some 'think tank' (cato? i forget) had a 'microsoft defense fund' that the public was invited to contribute to !

00:09:27 funkenstein_: bring your air filter

00:09:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00023166 = 5.166 BTC [+]

00:09:43 funkenstein_: i just watched "under the dome" documentary on china air pollution

00:09:57 funkenstein_: good evening gentlemen

00:10:46 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067728 << they had one here last year.

00:10:46 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:20:55; asciilifeform: the kind involving armoured trucks, rockets, demolition charges

00:10:52 pete_dushenski: "Get ready to ride in style Singapore, we’ve added supercars to the Uber platform. Starting this Saturday, March 21st, you will be able to request a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder or Maserati GranTurismo Coupe to come pick you up." << yew moves out, uber moves in.

00:11:02 mircea_popescu: buncha guys broke a coupla 17 yos out of juvenile detention. a

00:11:12 mircea_popescu: amusingly, the guy they were actually there to break out had already escapeds.

00:12:01 pete_dushenski: funkenstein_ did they feature the peri-air ?

00:12:42 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067737 << so wait, the case can only close if man = bad, woman = good ? no other outcome available ?

00:12:42 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:22:59; asciilifeform: 'Longo said the case is suspended, not closed. He said the fact that investigators could not find evidence ?doesn?t mean that something terrible didn?t happen to Jackie.?'

00:13:09 funkenstein_: pete_dushenski, no i hadn't heard of it

00:13:13 mircea_popescu: why would anyone partake ? "i am not taking part in your kangaroo mockery. you want to either win or flip again, i dun have time for that"

00:13:28 pete_dushenski: !s canned air

00:13:29 assbot: 1 results for 'canned air' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=canned+air

00:13:52 pete_dushenski: ^yup. that'd be the one

00:14:22 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067739 << lulz of all fucking time.

00:14:22 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:25:53; nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/ksBVtHB.png

00:14:28 pete_dushenski: straight out of space balls.

00:14:30 funkenstein_: wow

00:14:38 mircea_popescu: seriously, women want to feel like something (even cancer) would fuck em ? heh

00:15:20 asciilifeform: back

00:15:47 nubbins`: wb

00:15:48 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiabeNR_q0U << classic mel brooks

00:15:50 assbot: Perri-Air - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRpnb1 )

00:16:47 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform i see you got the boards delivert << aha see pics

00:16:49 trinque: #makers << my sides

00:18:50 asciilifeform: would not this problem be adequately solved with a huge slab of steel / al << i did say.

00:19:39 asciilifeform: Japanese Engineer Kills Self Harakiri-Style over Bridge Collapse << mega-respekt!!!

00:19:42 *: asciilifeform takes off hat

00:20:18 asciilifeform: office rats can't really have honor << wtf sure they can

00:20:48 asciilifeform: but then again it is rather like saying that sewer rats could read reddit (yes, the occasional iPnohe falls into a street drain.)

00:22:10 *: Adlai is starting to warm up to ada: http://archive.adaic.com/standards/83rat/html/ratl-13-03.html#13.3.2

00:22:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xfpE7J )

00:22:25 asciilifeform: getting scientists to donate to a honor-based system rather than to a socialism-based system will utterly restructure society << funnily orlov is 100% with this program, in his own peculiar way

00:23:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ...the original dispute that created this place... << now i'm curious

00:23:07 asciilifeform: what was it.

00:23:58 asciilifeform: <jurov> these scientists need to be funded, and somehow despite mpex, this isn't happening << jurov has it, unfortunately. we are in the jungle still.

00:25:16 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: gmaxwell's anti-porn/free-speech stance

00:25:31 BingoBoingo: !up decimation


00:25:55 decimation: asciilifeform: have you tested the boards?

00:25:57 nubbins`: or, what was it the guy tried to pass off? "the peerage"

00:26:51 asciilifeform: Adlai: starting to warm... << one of the two practically-usable programming -systems- (note, i didn't say 'languages') designed by and for thinking people

00:27:09 asciilifeform: decimation: yes, tested. see photos.

00:27:48 asciilifeform: decimation: not proper test (will have to happen in weekend) but does output visually correct results.

00:29:16 decimation: where's the pics?

00:29:45 asciilifeform: in log, 1sec

00:30:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067561

00:30:36 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:10:21; asciilifeform: in other news: http://imgur.com/YqbQh33,VN8dqBv,xJ6WGhl,nTPgWYW,WX6hpiT#4

00:31:42 decimation: ah I was looking for png

00:33:12 decimation: well, it doesn't short, and has serial-ly output somewhere, these are good things

00:33:27 asciilifeform: decimation: it's a 100% analogue device, actually

00:33:37 asciilifeform: well, 99%

00:34:32 decimation: I've been thinking about building a 'geiger counter' rng like herr walker's

00:34:49 asciilifeform: not especially hard

00:35:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2014/a-little-bit-of-bitcoin-history/

00:35:00 assbot: A little bit of Bitcoin history pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xfqLUU )

00:35:06 asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu

00:36:01 *: asciilifeform blew dust off pogotron and warming up

00:36:45 asciilifeform: considerably easier now that i have it booting off the lan

00:37:06 asciilifeform: ('i want too!' -- then see listserv)

00:37:43 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-03-2015#1064748 < yeah, this might make more sense - a conventional drone with missile. the important point is that these would be loitering at random radii and altitudes, making apriori 'air defense' clearance difficult

00:37:43 assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 06:08:33; ben_vulpes: <decimation> I just thought of a brilliant anti-'area denial' (to usg term) weapon system. imagine a small turboprop uav ... that can drop its wings and turn into kerosene rocket << why bother with expensive turbomachinery? just use solid propellants...

00:38:08 decimation: asciilifeform: did you get the remote u-boot console working?

00:38:23 asciilifeform: decimation: i did, long ago, and replaced with real serial console

00:38:40 asciilifeform: which is considerably more pleasant to use

00:38:48 decimation: i imagine so

00:40:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00021568 = 1.3696 BTC [-]

00:40:17 BingoBoingo: http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/features-issue-sections/12228/mac-plus-modern-web/

00:40:18 assbot: Plugging a 1986 Mac Plus into the modern Web ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRtiod )

00:40:56 BingoBoingo: ^ latest in tradition of people doing this

00:41:28 asciilifeform: lol, CONFIG_SERIAL_MPSC_CONSOLE

00:41:43 asciilifeform: ^ not in buildroot menus, because tards

00:42:03 asciilifeform: or alternatively, 'quit believing the docs'

00:42:52 asciilifeform: hint to others: NEVER 'make clean' on a working buildroot cross-compilation tree

00:42:58 asciilifeform: nukes the toolchain (incl. gcc) too.

00:43:08 asciilifeform: that's another hour or three that i will have no useful output.

00:43:33 decimation: lol is that a freebsd feature?

00:43:40 asciilifeform: linux

00:43:42 decimation: ah

00:44:01 asciilifeform: http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue-sections/headline-story/12210/anarchist-cookbook-history-usenet << mega-l0l

00:44:03 assbot: ‘The Anarchist Cookbook’ and the rise of DIY terrorism ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRtPqu )

00:44:15 decimation: asciilifeform: did you see this http://www.manux.info/en/

00:44:15 assbot: The Manux operating system ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRtQuu )

00:44:43 decimation: it's an utterly crippled version of 'linux' with all the crud stripped out

00:44:47 asciilifeform: 'Withstanding zero-day attacks in userspace' << by definition impossible

00:44:50 decimation: it also is apparently nonfunctional

00:44:56 decimation: "Uh, many. It's currently text-only, its IP stack isn't functionnal and will have to be partly rewritten, privilege-checking isn't implemented, it can't handle more than one hard drive..."

00:44:58 asciilifeform: very bad phrasing right off the bat

00:45:04 asciilifeform: can't speak for anything else in there

00:45:21 asciilifeform: appears to be vaguely minix-flavoured

00:45:56 decimation: my daughter loves to watch Кро́т cartoons now

00:46:20 asciilifeform: decimation: i never saw the animated one. only had the book

00:46:31 decimation: heh I didn't realize there was a book

00:47:24 asciilifeform: decimation: http://royallib.com/book/novotni_y/krot_v_gorode.html

00:47:25 assbot: Новотны Й. - Крот в городе, скачать бесплатно книгу в формате fb2, doc, rtf, html, txt ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRujN4 )

00:47:31 *: asciilifeform has not checked the quality of the scan

00:47:33 asciilifeform: could be full of spam

00:50:29 decimation: somewhat related, apparently you can order books, music, dvds from amazon.de for 3eur + 3eur per kg shipping (to the us)

00:53:01 asciilifeform: woah that was fast

00:53:03 asciilifeform: (build finished)

00:53:15 asciilifeform: still no dice though. no console output

00:54:09 asciilifeform: found shitgnomery though

00:54:20 asciilifeform: where it apparently strips flags one added manually to .config

00:54:25 asciilifeform: for no particularly good reason

00:55:38 brendafdez: This is weird, do I lose cloak when using the web interface? :/

00:55:44 BingoBoingo: Yeah

00:56:27 brendafdez: not nice.

00:56:31 BingoBoingo: You lose cloak with webchat, also logging

00:57:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00021322 = 2.9424 BTC [-]

00:57:20 brendafdez: what does it mean I lose logging? local logs? bc I do see it in the online log for the channel

00:58:00 brendafdez: Neteller will gladly take your bitcoin in exchange for their tokens, at no cost. You can proceed to then spend them through their debit card and such... http://www.coindesk.com/neteller-bitcoin-deposit-policy-reversal/

00:58:01 assbot: NETELLER Adds Bitcoin Deposit Option in Surprise Policy Reversal ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRvUTb )

00:58:09 brendafdez: No bitcoin payoutsa, however

01:01:08 BingoBoingo: The local logs

01:01:48 Adlai: brendafdez: identify before joining the channel and you'll be cloaked

01:02:54 Adlai: even better, use sasl (Auth to services: ☑)

01:04:42 nubbins`: !s bitnodes

01:04:43 assbot: 9 results for 'bitnodes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitnodes

01:09:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00021321 = 2.2067 BTC [-]

01:11:36 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

01:11:42 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 246.32, vol: 19197.38270643 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 247.456, vol: 13466.6437 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 246.32, vol: 64980.74454729 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 249.99, vol: 47.82915974 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 243.810164, vol: 199545.78660000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 247.04008, vol: 29.82396973 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 247.8613, vol: 143.09772369 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

01:15:38 funkenstein_: bezzle over 4 millies again

01:15:54 funkenstein_: anybody give me a book review? http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/1530.cfm

01:15:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DWf47X )

01:16:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00021305 = 3.1105 BTC [-] {2}

01:20:19 mod6: alright, new droplet created for x32 deb6 testing.

01:22:48 Adlai: ;;more

01:22:48 gribble: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.

01:22:54 Adlai: ;;more BingoBoingo

01:22:54 gribble: average: 244.688886748

01:24:41 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: http://dpaste.com/3Z7TTT1

01:24:42 assbot: dpaste: 3Z7TTT1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1GRA2T2 )

01:28:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00021457 = 4.4845 BTC [+] {2}

01:42:41 BingoBoingo: Science isn't a big ycombinator fan either http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2015/03/24/a_couple_of_ycombinators_startups.php

01:45:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00021655 = 4.2011 BTC [+]

01:47:12 mod6: x32 OpenSSL built: requires adding -m32 flag to ./Configure & setting: SSL_ARCH_TYPE=linux-generic32

01:47:39 mod6: will work on bdb & boost... will publish findings/changes to mailing list when complete...

01:47:50 nubbins`: pin woot

01:50:22 trinque: danielpbarron: ^

01:50:27 *: danielpbarron nods

01:52:07 mod6: bdb built

01:52:11 mod6: building boost...

01:53:30 asciilifeform: 'This might be unduly harsh, but if Atomwise can do what they say, why are they on Ycombinator? Pull up to a big pharma, ask for some minimally proprietary data, and let the computers go to work. It'd be like printing winning lottery tickets.'

01:55:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah you did say, and yeah i guess pretty much everyone honestly trying has figured out the same thing, if not necessarily apt to express it.

01:55:46 mircea_popescu: re orlov.

01:56:33 asciilifeform: speaking of...

01:56:34 asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/financial-feudalism.html

01:56:35 assbot: ClubOrlov: Financial Feudalism ... ( http://bit.ly/1BjO0cO )

02:00:29 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> where it apparently strips flags one added manually to .config << ahahaha

02:00:38 mircea_popescu: such logical.

02:00:53 asciilifeform: since phixed

02:01:08 mod6: ok statically linked bitcoind x32 version built & pulling blocks.

02:01:15 asciilifeform: now trying to find which of the 5 supported marvells is actually compatible with kirkwood

02:01:21 asciilifeform: (which, naturally, isn't)

02:01:37 mircea_popescu: <brendafdez> No bitcoin payoutsa, however << a) nothing surprising about it and b) everyone wants to get as many btc as humanly possible before having to admit it.

02:01:43 asciilifeform: i would dearly love to know what kind of 'open source' the folks who built that archlinux kernel practice.

02:01:48 asciilifeform: where, for instance, is their config ?

02:02:05 mod6: it's 1 change to the auto.sh file, & have to have the 3 vars at the top set correctly. I'll post a copy of this auto.sh, a diff to the 64 bit version and a diff to the original portatronic version yet tonight.

02:02:22 asciilifeform: they are in violation of gpl and, if anyone were actually concerned with this, would be made to swallow a hammer or whatever it is that is supposed to happen to such hooligans

02:02:47 mod6: > 15000 blocks & counting...

02:05:44 mircea_popescu: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tHsZRRZGenI/VQ2bzk35ARI/AAAAAAAAGR8/Dyutk4-Qy6Q/s1600/Feudal.png << this is pretty idiotic.

02:05:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDlHfO )

02:06:00 mircea_popescu: this is why i don't like reading orlov. the propaganda angle doesn't bother me as much, but the millitant, sheer ignorance does.

02:06:13 mircea_popescu: find a fucking count that was allegiant to a duke in the entire history of feudalism.

02:06:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10805 @ 0.00022068 = 2.3844 BTC [+]

02:06:36 mircea_popescu: i am willing to bet, on the strength of that diagram, that his disneyland notions of "feudalism" preclude him even knowing WHEN in time this happened

02:07:10 mircea_popescu: protip : no, it's not 1550, that's the cinquecento in italy, feudalism is already dead and rotting everywhere.

02:07:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's using a ru dictionary, betcah

02:07:23 asciilifeform: *betcha

02:07:25 mircea_popescu: even so.

02:07:44 mircea_popescu: russia did not exist. the various duchies were not even feudal ffs.

02:07:53 asciilifeform: aha but the man's dictionary

02:08:06 asciilifeform: duke outranks count there, so.

02:08:53 thestringpuller: cyrptofeudalism is awesome

02:08:53 mircea_popescu: "outranks" is a purely courtly consideration

02:08:59 mircea_popescu: "what order do they follow the monarch in"

02:09:09 mircea_popescu: by the time anyone cares about this feudalism was long defeated.

02:09:26 mircea_popescu: in any case : counts as in, counts palatine, counts of the hre, etc, were sovereign.

02:09:39 mircea_popescu: dukes did not by and large exist, unless you mean dux, which was a leader of fucking cataphracts

02:10:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he meant герцог

02:10:16 mircea_popescu: marsh lord, what is known as marquis, actually outranked counts at court, chiefly because being the lord of a marsh he had much more legal power than the head of settled land

02:10:17 asciilifeform: this is pretty clear

02:10:19 asciilifeform: hertzog

02:10:20 mircea_popescu: and on and on and fucking on it goes.

02:10:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's a count

02:10:34 asciilifeform: nope

02:10:39 asciilifeform: граф

02:10:43 mod6: ok im gonna stop this thing, rebuild one more time for good measure, then will create diffs & publish.

02:10:49 asciilifeform: see i can tell where he got it.

02:10:54 mircea_popescu: grof ? that's a hungarian/polish count.

02:11:03 asciilifeform: and guess what other kind.

02:11:12 mircea_popescu: hey, more power to you, but really...

02:11:40 mircea_popescu: "here's what i remember of this bad translation of a phenomena by some people who didn't live it, and who are so far from me culturally i in turn have no idea. let's make an infographic and educate reddit."

02:11:41 mircea_popescu: pssssshhh

02:11:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'll add that this is (or was) sop in ru world

02:12:07 mircea_popescu: ima insist this is no path to understanding

02:12:09 asciilifeform: sorta like those 'c' programmers who #define'd themselves BEGIN and END blocks

02:12:17 mircea_popescu: it may be a path to "respek" an autoritah

02:12:39 asciilifeform: it's an ill habit, sorta like the elaborate rules for mistransliterating german and english

02:12:41 asciilifeform: (in ru)

02:12:59 decimation: landgraf

02:12:59 mircea_popescu: aha

02:13:15 decimation: ^graf who reports directly to emperor

02:13:16 mircea_popescu: decimation landgraf aka margrave aka march lord is a post-feudalist construct

02:13:41 mircea_popescu: "about half the power a count used to have back when the counts of belgium dominated france, for to protect the country borders"

02:13:59 mircea_popescu: (march = marsh = border, in this understanding. strips of marginal and thus uninhabited lands)

02:15:02 mircea_popescu: anyway. the peak of feudalism is around the peak of things like the tournoi as a public sport.

02:15:13 mircea_popescu: it was ending just as the hansa was coming into its own.

02:15:14 *: asciilifeform thought that this was reasonably well known

02:15:20 decimation: The German titles of Landgraf, Markgraf, and Pfalzgraf bei Rhein are in the same class of ranks as Herzog ("duke") and above the rank of a Graf ("count").

02:15:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unapparent from the orlov piece.

02:15:24 decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landgrave

02:15:25 assbot: Landgrave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDonu2 )

02:15:53 mircea_popescu: decimation before long you'll be looking into subtle distinctions such as between "king of germany" and "king in germany"

02:16:10 asciilifeform: 'salute the uniform, not the man!' (TM)

02:16:32 decimation: Herr Fredrick took the "of" for himself

02:17:23 mircea_popescu: aha

02:17:50 mircea_popescu: but basically, feudalism and metalwork almost look as a zero sum game : as the latter develops the former fades

02:17:55 mircea_popescu: (in favour of the centralised state)

02:18:12 mircea_popescu: in NO CASE was feudalism replaced by capitalism tho.

02:18:51 mircea_popescu: this is like saying bows were replaced by submachine guns. well... no. at absolutely no point had people using bows encountered people using submachine guns.

02:19:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can tell he's using the su version of capitalism (it being, 'what is left when you subtract stone age + feudalism + communism from the cosmic background hiss)

02:19:06 mircea_popescu: perhaps an argument can be brought for places like sicily cca 1930, but it is still very tenuous.

02:19:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with using a language is that you're stuck using it according to itself tho. this is like, orlov horribly mauled a teenaged girl and you're like "well clearly the bear thought her cunt's salmon."

02:19:51 mircea_popescu: this may be true, but the girl's still pretty badly bloodied.

02:20:03 asciilifeform: or, less crackpottishly, the idea of ascendancy of the merchant class probably equals capitalism in his head

02:20:16 mircea_popescu: the merchant class was ascendant cca 1300!

02:20:28 mircea_popescu: which i wager is before he thinks feudalism STARTS

02:20:28 decimation: polish calvary charging the motorized wehrmacht?

02:20:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26066 @ 0.00021246 = 5.538 BTC [-] {2}

02:20:41 mircea_popescu: decimation that cavalry was not feudal tho. prussian military.

02:20:51 decimation: ah true

02:21:01 mircea_popescu: it was imperialism vs early steampunk democracy

02:21:31 mircea_popescu: sort of a rehash of napoleonic conflicts.

02:21:38 decimation: fredrick inspired much socialistoid bureaucracy too

02:21:58 mircea_popescu: the centralised state can only be a centralised state after all.

02:22:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10235 @ 0.00021359 = 2.1861 BTC [+]

02:23:20 decimation: my male line lived under the landgraf hesse-homburg for at least 400 years

02:23:35 decimation: it was rolled up into prussistan

02:23:45 mircea_popescu: "A new system of economic relations was brought into being, based on money that could be generated at will, in the form of debt" << this is EXACTLY unrelated to capitalism.

02:24:02 mircea_popescu: for most of the industrial revolution, late 1600s to early 1900s, this view was exactly not held.

02:24:21 mircea_popescu: moreover, as late as during ww2, the west thought the war is mostly about preventing exactly that.

02:24:38 mircea_popescu: i mean shit, you can't go around conflating everything you don't know about for chrissakes.

02:24:53 *: mircea_popescu has angrily closed that blogspot

02:25:29 asciilifeform: unrelated,

02:25:39 asciilifeform: i can tell none of you tried to build pogo's vendor kernel

02:25:51 asciilifeform: (perhaps can already guess what happens)

02:26:51 nubbins`: doesn't work!

02:27:20 asciilifeform: no

02:27:22 asciilifeform: doesn't build

02:27:26 asciilifeform: on any modern toolchain

02:27:42 decimation: And in fact there was a rear-guard action, launched in May of 1944, just before the Bretton Woods Conference, by a group of influential New York bankers, who very much hated the Bretton Woods agenda. They offered to lend Britain at least $3 billion dollars after the War, in return for which Britain would walk away from the Bretton Woods Conference. Clarke and others in the British Treasury wanted to pursue this idea. But Keynes would

02:27:44 decimation: have none of it. ... Because he wanted to be known as the man who overthrew the gold standard and replaced it with a new, rational, managed international monetary system. So he very much had his own personal legacy at heart here. http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/02/benn_steil_on_t.html

02:27:51 asciilifeform: nor is there any ready means for determining which un-modern combination of tools it -did- build on

02:33:58 mod6: http://dpaste.com/1YQR1W7 << look good?

02:33:59 assbot: dpaste: 1YQR1W7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDsSF2 )

02:37:10 mod6: pulled over 70k blocks

02:37:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 300 @ 0.00354894 = 1.0647 BTC [-]

02:38:10 decimation: ;;ticker

02:38:11 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 247.2, Best ask: 247.23, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 247.25, 24 hour volume: 65365.6785161, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 267.49, 24 hour vwap: None

02:46:21 mod6: it seems a bit silly to post a patch also back to the original portatronic version for this. anyone have any objections if i just publish a full copy of the 32bit auto.sh and a patch of auto.sh to the previous version (v0.0.5 included in the -RELEASE) ?

02:47:22 []bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Silver at or over $22/oz before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1132/ Odds: 55(Y):45(N) by coin, 55(Y):45(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.665139 BTC. Current weight: 99,430.

02:48:08 danielpbarron: what does the portatronic thing do differently?

02:50:49 BingoBoingo: Ah, we're unthreading all of the vocabulary today!

02:51:13 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: specified toolchain for possible cross-compilation

02:51:39 danielpbarron: that's it? i thought maybe it patched stuff in the source or something

02:52:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14728 @ 0.00021005 = 3.0936 BTC [-] {2}

02:52:34 mod6: going once... going twice ... SOLD! to the man with 3 letters and integer in his nick

02:55:15 BingoBoingo: lol

02:56:04 mircea_popescu: decimation quite.

02:56:27 mircea_popescu: so to conflate "modern idiotic usgtronics" with "capitalism" which in turn conflates with "everything minus stone age, feudalism, and the soviets" is...

02:56:32 mircea_popescu: well distilled imbecility, frankly.

02:56:51 mircea_popescu: "teach the faux controversy mayhap people forget shit doesn't have tyo be eaten"

02:57:00 asciilifeform: still no boot, with this >> http://dpaste.com/2Z0E50V.txt

02:57:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDyajC )

02:57:06 asciilifeform: (kernel config)

02:57:56 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron there wouldn't normally be huge differences.

02:58:24 asciilifeform: building for arm922t which, as far as i can tell, marvell is compatible with.

02:58:30 asciilifeform: hangs on jump into kernel.

02:58:45 asciilifeform: just like the... 57? previous linux kernels i built for this thing.

02:58:55 asciilifeform: no signs of life.

02:59:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12633 @ 0.00020725 = 2.6182 BTC [-]

03:00:12 mircea_popescu: so basically no os whatsoever builds on these things ?

03:00:24 asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/2MSHFN2.txt << buildroot config for completeness

03:00:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDz0Nj )

03:00:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not quite. netbsd builds

03:00:43 decimation: keynes threw england into the shitter just so he could 'win at the game of life'

03:00:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is the -only- thing i was able to build from source and actually get a shell on

03:00:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hence why i spent so long on it

03:01:08 mircea_popescu: hm

03:01:35 nubbins`: kirkwood has 2x sata?

03:01:47 asciilifeform: http://buildroot.uclibc.org << anyone who wants to re-create my experiment, now can

03:01:49 assbot: Buildroot: making embedded Linux easy ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDziUy )

03:01:53 asciilifeform: use the two configs posted just now.

03:02:01 asciilifeform: one is buildroot's, the other is the kernel's

03:02:05 asciilifeform: nubbins`: 1

03:02:11 asciilifeform: or wait

03:02:16 asciilifeform: if you're thinking of speed - 2

03:02:23 asciilifeform: (1 connector, 2x speed)

03:02:54 asciilifeform: oh, and in case this wasn't clear,

03:03:03 asciilifeform: -none of these os-en build on the machine itself!!!-

03:03:09 asciilifeform: must use cross-compiler

03:03:14 nubbins`: "Two SATA 2.0 ports with integrated PHYs"

03:03:17 *: nubbins` shrugs

03:03:25 asciilifeform: nubbins`: one's a phantom limb, i think

03:03:28 nubbins`: a

03:03:35 asciilifeform: at any rate, precisely one plug.

03:04:05 nubbins`: "security engine"!

03:04:23 asciilifeform: we don't use it for anything

03:04:35 asciilifeform: does - would you believe - accelerated xor.

03:04:52 decimation: one sign that nobody is rich today is that nobody could possibly dream of floating the national debt of england

03:06:57 nubbins`: or a sign nobody's been that poor before

03:07:13 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> nubbins`: one's a phantom limb, i think << Phantom limbs got me much less excited about the latest Sun hardware I'd been investigating when the problem of keeping a post 2016 blockchain would have been a big challenge. (IDE limited to sub 127 GB, USB 1.1, and Firewire ports unsupported in OS of choice which means gambling on PCI USB 2.0 card working for moar storage)

03:07:43 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> does - would you believe - accelerated xor. << megalol

03:08:31 BingoBoingo: In other news I discovered apparently firefighting trains exist

03:12:10 nubbins`: http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/sheevaplug/install.xml

03:12:11 assbot: Gentoo Linux Documentation -- Gentoo on the Marvell SheevaPlug ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDC6Ru )

03:12:16 nubbins`: might be something of interest there

03:12:54 asciilifeform: nubbins`: there most certainly was not.

03:13:01 asciilifeform: was first place i looked way back when.

03:13:30 BingoBoingo: sheevaplug seems to be different beast for reasons only Vishnu knows

03:15:08 asciilifeform: that isn't why

03:15:19 BingoBoingo: sorry, reasons only Vishnuplug knows

03:15:21 asciilifeform: just that there is no meaningful detail in there about config for 3.18

03:15:29 asciilifeform: (or anything else)

03:18:26 asciilifeform: anyone here have pogo with debian running?

03:18:30 asciilifeform: please extract the config & post

03:18:45 asciilifeform: zcat /proc/config.gz > config.txt

03:18:59 asciilifeform: note that this may or may not work depending on whether the kernel was built with this enabled

03:19:25 asciilifeform: if no one has debian, but someone has arch - please post that

03:19:43 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mod6, danielpbarron, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes ???

03:19:49 asciilifeform: punkman ?

03:22:44 *: BingoBoingo yet to try .foundation build as spec'd, mostly has moar weird in his plan pipeline

03:22:48 nubbins`: gzip: /proc/config.gz: No such file or directory

03:22:50 nubbins`: haha wat.

03:23:01 asciilifeform: nubbins`: snipped to save space then

03:23:26 asciilifeform: but it means that there is no way to replicate the kernel build short of catching the perpetrator and slowly roasting him over a fire

03:23:36 nubbins`: http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/sheevaplug/install/configsheeva fwiw

03:23:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDERlN )

03:23:41 nubbins`: (probably 0)

03:23:53 asciilifeform: nubbins`: not 3.18 !

03:23:59 nubbins`: right, 2.6

03:24:08 nubbins`: don't mind me

03:27:45 nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/X3GhWU7u

03:27:48 assbot: config-3.16.0-kirkwood-tld-3 - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDFZpD )

03:28:01 asciilifeform: nubbins`: from where ?

03:28:16 nubbins`: http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?2,12096

03:28:19 assbot: Linux Kernel 3.18 (FDT) and 3.16 (non-FDT) Kirkwood package and rootfs ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDG3Wh )

03:28:39 mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000071.html

03:28:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FDGaRG )

03:28:44 nubbins`: this is the guy from http://blog.qnology.com/2014/07/hacking-pogoplug-v4-series-4-and-mobile.html

03:28:46 assbot: Qui's techNOLOGY Blog: Hacking the Pogoplug v4 (Series 4 and Mobile) with Linux (Debian or Arch) ... ( http://bit.ly/1LaLl9S )

03:28:55 nubbins`: which is what i followed to get my pogo up and running

03:29:11 nubbins`: but i think the guide i used was for 3.18

03:29:12 nubbins`: shrug

03:29:27 asciilifeform: nubbins`: ty, about to test it

03:29:34 nubbins`: np, lmk!

03:31:24 BingoBoingo: ;;ls

03:31:25 gribble: What do you think I am, a shell?

03:32:52 asciilifeform: woah the sheer amount of turdage in that one

03:32:59 nubbins`: it's looooooooooong, hey?

03:33:00 asciilifeform: crapolade that is not possibly used for anything, ever.

03:33:07 asciilifeform: i mean, it's 10x the size

03:33:19 asciilifeform: every possible sound card, gpu,...

03:33:25 nubbins`: i thought i accidentally pasted twice when scrolling down to pastebin submit button!

03:33:30 asciilifeform: no

03:34:09 nubbins`: "for GoFlex Home/Net, Pogoplug E02/Mobile/V4, iConnect, Dockstar, Sheevaplug, NSA320, NSA325, Topkick, and all other Kirkwood plugs that are already in the mainline"

03:34:24 nubbins`: in other words, bring your own scissors :0

03:34:26 asciilifeform: and that is why ten thousand joysticks ?

03:34:31 nubbins`: ha

03:35:24 asciilifeform: still building

03:35:28 asciilifeform: and for who knows how long.

03:36:06 mircea_popescu: !up eric

03:37:22 BingoBoingo: !up eric

03:37:31 nubbins`: shrug

03:37:33 nubbins`: !up eric

03:37:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17314 @ 0.00021445 = 3.713 BTC [+]

03:38:14 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker

03:38:16 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 247.58, Best ask: 247.72, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 247.97, 24 hour volume: 65174.61242121, 24 hour low: 241.39, 24 hour high: 267.49, 24 hour vwap: None

03:38:40 asciilifeform: nubbins`: no signs of life

03:38:45 asciilifeform: nubbins`: from that kernel.

03:39:20 asciilifeform: (the extra mass in the config was actually from building every possible module. which went into the rootfs and had no impact on the kernel proper)

03:39:27 nubbins`: boo. didja try 3.18 or .16

03:39:31 asciilifeform: anyway it's just as dead as the last maxint kernels

03:39:35 nubbins`: ah

03:39:40 asciilifeform: nubbins`: 3.18

03:39:46 asciilifeform: which comes with buildroot

03:39:55 asciilifeform: using your config

03:43:42 nubbins`: hm

03:49:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00021445 = 3.9244 BTC [+]

03:50:13 BingoBoingo: perhaps pogolinux is actually just OS/2 with gratuitous text substitution?

03:52:21 *: BingoBoingo also learned today all of his most exotic fire extinguisher ideas have largely been incorporated into class D fire extinguishers already except for the DU based supressant idea

03:53:02 asciilifeform: the famous kerosene fire extinguisher.

03:53:17 asciilifeform: (hey it extinguishes - eventually.)

03:53:33 BingoBoingo: And the carbon tetrachloride fire extinguishing grenade

03:55:14 BingoBoingo: JetA puts out fires pretty well though provided you are flicking a cigarette butt into a bucket of JetA most of the time

03:57:07 BingoBoingo: God dammit, coyotes are back already this year

03:59:03 nubbins`: he's got config files going back to 3.8.11 fwiw

03:59:11 nubbins`: all hyooj

04:02:41 nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/sCTDPpQ2

04:02:44 assbot: config-3.18.5-kirkwood-tld-1 - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9m3H6 )

04:02:44 nubbins`: latest

04:03:31 asciilifeform: nubbins`: he has a patch.

04:03:37 asciilifeform: that's the boojum, i think

04:04:15 nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/g0Ra5XTa

04:04:17 assbot: linux-3.18.5-kirkwood-tld-1.patch - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9mhOu )

04:04:24 asciilifeform: guess what, i built a kernel

04:04:26 asciilifeform: that boot

04:04:26 asciilifeform: s

04:04:36 asciilifeform: ... and promptly panics

04:04:57 asciilifeform: (because no root fs)

04:05:00 asciilifeform: but hey, works

04:05:14 asciilifeform: using -vanilla buildroot-

04:05:20 nubbins`: oh cool

04:05:22 asciilifeform: make sheevaplug_defconfig

04:05:23 asciilifeform: make

04:05:24 nubbins`: see line 615 in above

04:05:26 asciilifeform: that's it

04:05:42 asciilifeform: didn't use any of the weirdo crap from above link

04:06:15 nubbins`: woo!

04:06:32 asciilifeform: tomorrow evening i'll 1) flash in the rootfs to get something like a working box

04:06:41 asciilifeform: 2) mercilessly root out the idiot crud that gets rolled in by default

04:06:45 asciilifeform: (sound cards, etc)

04:07:27 nubbins`: amazing

04:07:27 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

04:07:38 nubbins`: THAT'S THE SPIRIT

04:07:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: habemus kernelam

04:08:01 mircea_popescu: o hey!

04:08:10 mircea_popescu: who won ?

04:08:13 mircea_popescu: sheeva ?

04:08:13 asciilifeform: me.

04:08:16 mircea_popescu: lol

04:09:22 mircea_popescu: so this is a sheevaplug brew of what, netbsd ?

04:09:27 asciilifeform: nono

04:09:30 asciilifeform: linux 3.18

04:10:51 nubbins`: so you didn't need anything from that patch file?

04:11:02 asciilifeform: apparently not

04:11:14 asciilifeform: the interesting parts were rolled in some time ago in mainline, apparently

04:11:17 asciilifeform: just as i suspected

04:11:45 asciilifeform: 7089334f25a0e1d8b09db96da4d61fbdf7ea7aca258fdd20012f85be976c39e63f5bc29842b25f0dc18a8ccdc74ad1e7c4ed7af56faa39b3917f76e082077589 turdel.gz

04:12:11 BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski

04:12:12 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdel.gz

04:12:18 nubbins`: actually, looking at the pogoplug-related entries in that patch, it's all trivial stuff

04:12:20 nubbins`: front LEDs etc

04:12:26 asciilifeform: nubbins`: not entirely

04:12:37 asciilifeform: nubbins`: there are some memory-mapped i/o iirc

04:13:00 asciilifeform: anyway whoever wants can boot up turdel using my tftp instructions (or by actually flashing it in) and see that it did happen.

04:13:16 asciilifeform: (it croaks, having no meaningful rootfs, but that's for tomorrow)

04:13:19 nubbins`: oh, yeah, i see em

04:13:25 nubbins`: eject button too!

04:14:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: netbsd i had running weeks and weeks ago. but it sucks for reasons already described in log

04:14:40 pete_dushenski: thx bb!

04:15:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: today by popular demand i went on a little deathmarch and got a source-built traditional linux going on it.

04:15:29 mircea_popescu: cool.

04:15:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16476 @ 0.00022407 = 3.6918 BTC [+] {2}

04:15:38 *: mircea_popescu looks for a virgin or 40

04:15:51 asciilifeform: this is amply enough to work from

04:16:06 asciilifeform: and can be trimmed into some approximation of good shape.

04:16:15 mircea_popescu: so then, this + 32bit bitcoind and we're done.

04:16:33 mircea_popescu: (in the sense of having a miserable memory leaking low cost node)

04:16:39 asciilifeform: aha

04:16:45 nubbins`: heh

04:16:48 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069353

04:16:48 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 01:20:19; mod6: alright, new droplet created for x32 deb6 testing.

04:16:51 asciilifeform: the one ingredient that is still needed, that i have not attempted at all, is the formatter

04:17:04 mircea_popescu: linux doesn't come with one ?!

04:17:23 nubbins`: fdisk in crontab to be safe

04:17:24 asciilifeform: that is, which detects 1) have we a disk plugged in? 2) if so, has it a blockchain? 3) if plugged in, no blockchain - format disk

04:17:35 asciilifeform: 4) start bitcoind (in reset death loop)

04:17:54 asciilifeform: it is also of great importance to blink the correct colour led!

04:18:02 mircea_popescu: aha

04:18:03 nubbins`: yah!

04:18:04 asciilifeform: or else how is operator to know what becomes of his node

04:18:10 asciilifeform: maybe disk is dead

04:18:14 asciilifeform: maybe net connection dead

04:18:16 nubbins`: have the eject button send us a message on irc or something

04:18:28 asciilifeform: nubbins`: pogo4 has no buttons

04:19:04 nubbins`: ah, i thought the purple logo'd one did

04:21:10 trinque: up to the operator to deploy updates later?

04:21:23 asciilifeform: what updates.

04:21:30 trinque: is perfect?

04:21:46 BingoBoingo: <trinque> is perfect? << C doesn't do perfect

04:22:02 asciilifeform: if you must, signed updates

04:22:07 asciilifeform: but i wasn't even thinking of this.

04:22:18 asciilifeform: anyway since when do i have to decide this

04:22:34 asciilifeform: therealbitcoin chairmen, awaken

04:22:57 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6 ?

04:23:49 trinque: bet you could tell it about updates just like deedbot

04:23:57 nubbins`: asciilifeform: my pogo has an eject button :S

04:24:10 asciilifeform: nubbins`: does it actually press?

04:24:19 nubbins`: ...

04:24:35 asciilifeform: also whoever it was who marvelled (l0l) at pogo being a 32bit arm - 64bit is lunacy on a box with 128m of ram and no swap

04:24:43 asciilifeform: it just makes pointers take up 2x the space

04:24:48 nubbins`: yes

04:24:54 asciilifeform: and bloats exe by ~2 factor

04:25:32 nubbins`: granted, it doesn't *do* anything atm

04:25:33 asciilifeform: the designer made an entirely rational choice

04:25:36 nubbins`: but it's at least a real button

04:25:47 asciilifeform: nubbins`: would you care to post a photo of the unit ?

04:25:57 asciilifeform: nubbins`: because it is quite clearly different from mine

04:27:00 ben_vulpes: hm?

04:27:11 *: ben_vulpes just cracked the craptop

04:27:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: another ingredient, since you were making a list, is the seed list

04:27:19 nubbins`: http://mhassan.me/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/pogoplug_v4_top_removed1.jpg

04:27:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9p8He )

04:27:26 nubbins`: ^ that's yours, not mine

04:27:35 nubbins`: next to eth

04:27:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall how it has a gigantic seedlist consisting of mostly corpses, compiled in ?

04:28:01 asciilifeform: nubbins`: -that- button

04:28:09 nubbins`: :D

04:28:10 asciilifeform: i have it too

04:28:16 nubbins`: i had to double check

04:28:18 asciilifeform: thought yours might have had a button under the lamp

04:28:28 nubbins`: no. pressed it like 5x to make sure

04:28:42 nubbins`: i wish :/

04:28:55 nubbins`: instead you need a toothpick

04:29:18 asciilifeform: if ben_vulpes and mod6 decide that we must have an updater (signed, naturally) i suggest that the button be used to trigger it

04:29:23 asciilifeform: loading from attached storage of course

04:29:27 asciilifeform: (not the net)

04:29:57 asciilifeform: at the very minimum, development units ought to have it

04:30:10 ben_vulpes: for pogos?

04:30:21 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: long thread re: pogo.

04:30:25 ben_vulpes: no shit.

04:30:27 nubbins`: if we end up jamming the os onto the nand, you could have it scan SD cards on insert for patches

04:30:45 ben_vulpes: since when is the pogo my project?

04:30:53 asciilifeform: nubbins`: tomorrow rootfs in nand

04:30:59 asciilifeform: the kernel i just posted, sees the nand.

04:30:59 *: nubbins` cheers

04:31:35 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in as far as it may end up the first battlefield deployment of 0.5.3.x - aha.

04:31:41 nubbins`: danielpbarron's project if anyone's 8)

04:32:01 nubbins`: well. alf's if anyone's !

04:32:07 ben_vulpes: ^

04:32:09 ben_vulpes: yeah, that.

04:32:14 asciilifeform: lol i cleaned a cm of dust off my pogo today.

04:32:19 BingoBoingo: !up Dannyl

04:32:22 ben_vulpes: a cm?!

04:32:22 nubbins`: far be it from me to assume ;D

04:32:45 ben_vulpes: dc air must be miserable

04:32:49 asciilifeform: nah just me

04:32:59 nubbins`: who's got pogos anyway

04:33:13 asciilifeform: i presently am sitting on no fewer than 12.

04:33:26 asciilifeform: and i think mod6 had a bunch

04:33:28 nubbins`: i'll have 3 at some point this week

04:33:33 ben_vulpes: that's a lot of dust...

04:33:35 nubbins`: dpb has at least one

04:33:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu iirc had some

04:33:47 ben_vulpes: ;)

04:33:47 nubbins`: hundreds!

04:34:02 asciilifeform: and possibly punkman

04:34:06 nubbins`: hmm yes

04:34:31 asciilifeform: i'm almost beginning to not-regret picking that machine

04:34:40 asciilifeform: having finally booted a reasonable linux

04:34:40 ben_vulpes: hah

04:34:46 nubbins`: i've got some nebulous plans to kit-ify these & sell em

04:34:47 ben_vulpes: you like things?

04:35:06 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: didn't say 'like,' l0l

04:35:17 ben_vulpes: couldn't resist, boss

04:35:29 asciilifeform: nubbins` do you think you could do a print of some kind over the lid?

04:35:32 asciilifeform: or other parts of chassis

04:35:44 asciilifeform: i was considering lasering mine

04:35:54 nubbins`: some sort of vinyl sticker would be easiest/cheapest

04:36:05 asciilifeform: eh chinese

04:36:08 nubbins`: you wouldn't even need to apply the sticker yourself, people like doing that stuff

04:36:28 asciilifeform: stickers are so 10 yrs ago when we all had that gnu with horns on laptops

04:36:28 BingoBoingo: Does anyone have a python script for computing the odds of adult male of supplied height and weight versus (Y) pack of coyotes if armed with a tack hammer?

04:36:35 nubbins`: you'd want solvent inks to silkscreen on that, and yuck

04:36:46 asciilifeform: nubbins` laser then.

04:37:09 nubbins`: it's too bad the name is already stamped into the top

04:37:14 nubbins`: you could laser a byline or smth tho

04:37:24 asciilifeform: nothing a 40w laser can't fix

04:37:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7399 @ 0.00021258 = 1.5729 BTC [-]

04:37:56 asciilifeform: now result might be a heap of slag where the logo was

04:37:57 nubbins`: anyone here have a lead on custom injection-molded plastics?

04:37:58 asciilifeform: but ought to try

04:37:59 nubbins`: 8D

04:38:21 asciilifeform: nubbins`: if you think pcb is expensive, try injection-molded anything.

04:38:59 nubbins`: recall fake bomb detector story, the one thing the guy always brought when he ran was the tooling

04:39:25 asciilifeform: l0l aha

04:39:35 asciilifeform: ok, quick likbez on 'buildroot'

04:39:49 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, others :

04:40:05 asciilifeform: 'buildroot' is this mega-automaton for building cross-compiled os for routers and the like

04:40:23 asciilifeform: it builds, in this order 1) toolchain (using local gcc) for target cpu - gcc and binutils

04:40:27 asciilifeform: 2) kernel

04:40:40 mod6: <+asciilifeform> and i think mod6 had a bunch << naw, don't even own one yet.

04:40:42 asciilifeform: 3) userland (rootfs image for stuffing wherever, nand in our case)

04:40:53 asciilifeform: the thing is mega-configurable and very baroque

04:41:07 ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> ben_vulpes mod6 mircea_popescu and other interested parties: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=uJQDaKcz << neat

04:41:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9qF0b )

04:41:21 asciilifeform: my notion, as of a month plus ago, was to bake the entire orchestra into a buildroot

04:41:30 trinque: my pogo's promised to me by the 3rd

04:41:35 asciilifeform: that is, the same crosscompiler it builds, that builds kernel etc. will also build bitcoind and its deps

04:42:06 nubbins`: ben_vulpes block=191668 !

04:42:20 asciilifeform: the result ought to be a self-contained bag of shit that, when executed on any reasonable unix, eventually churns out a set of images suitable for flashing to a 'pogo'.

04:42:50 asciilifeform: and yes, this means we freeze gcc, ulibc, etc. in time.

04:42:52 ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> mod6 i should stress that *none* of the hardening options are included in that makefile, and it really should not be used for anything other than reference << see, reference y'all

04:42:56 nubbins`: S-CBOS

04:42:59 nubbins`: i like it

04:43:10 ben_vulpes: it pins the protocol

04:43:16 asciilifeform: there we go

04:43:17 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes gets.

04:43:26 ben_vulpes: it's a subtle rapier, not a thing for use in anger.

04:43:29 ben_vulpes: leastaways no time soon.

04:43:52 asciilifeform: little secret re: 'in anger' - ada doesn't need an os...

04:44:00 asciilifeform: (got its own scheduler, aha)

04:44:09 ben_vulpes: k well write a bitcoind then shiva

04:44:18 asciilifeform: i intend to

04:44:22 asciilifeform: but this wasn't a secret, was it

04:44:51 asciilifeform: but it will be some time before anyone is faced with question of what to do with my ver.

04:44:51 ben_vulpes: don't ask me what everyone doesn't know

04:45:56 asciilifeform: i will admit that, with regards to the reference version (let's call it 'traditional') i am especially interested in a tandem-operable variant

04:46:17 ben_vulpes: tandem-operable?

04:46:27 asciilifeform: that is, one which (or, even better, its subcomponents) can be ran in lockstep with another nominally-equivalent program

04:46:36 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: imagine you're mircea_popescu

04:46:57 ben_vulpes: i do this regularly, but in what scenario today?

04:47:00 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and one of the folks here (not guaranteed that it'll be me) writes a spiffy 'ab initio' bitcoind

04:47:23 trinque: right, you'll want to check them against each other before making the leap

04:47:43 trinque: if you ever actually leap

04:47:51 asciilifeform: trinque: because of the difficulty, and ultimately the very real practical limits of programmatic proof, tandem is likely our fate for many years.

04:48:04 asciilifeform: or at least the fate of truly serious folks with much to lose

04:48:13 trinque: asciilifeform: will also be useful to out any fuckery of the phoundation client later down the chain

04:48:30 asciilifeform: (i for one will happily jump with the parachute i packed for self. but my carcass isn't worth especially much)

04:49:18 ben_vulpes: i don't understand what's so special about 'tandem operable'

04:49:27 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: good question:

04:49:30 nubbins`: there's no POSIX standard for bitcoin

04:49:35 nubbins`: 8)

04:49:46 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you *built* a chute?

04:49:50 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the implication is that various internals are accessible, and flow can be stopped

04:49:54 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not literally

04:50:10 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: referring to a tradition in certain armies where men are expected to wrap own parachute

04:50:11 asciilifeform: and sign it

04:50:15 asciilifeform: before it is used

04:50:23 asciilifeform: 'i packed this. --mr grunt'

04:50:24 ben_vulpes: right.

04:50:30 ben_vulpes: gotcha.

04:50:37 asciilifeform: then, if they find a pancake, there is no question of 'whodunit'

04:51:32 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> you can't postpone everything until everything else just like you can't have everything louder than everything else. << i think i found where this started

04:51:37 asciilifeform: (fwiw, my father informs me that this custom was unknown in his unit, and only expert was trusted with wrapping chutes)

04:52:24 nubbins`: whoever survived the first time they tried the signatures was deemed an expert and dispersed throughout the other units

04:52:34 ben_vulpes: hyuuu

04:54:43 asciilifeform: the photo mats randomly posted today is, incidentally, a picturesque metaphor for what we're doing.

04:54:56 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-03-2015#1068467

04:54:56 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 19:20:12; mats: http://i.imgur.com/09FTJTl.jpg pictured: one partially disassembled hellfire missile

04:55:12 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes mod6 what do you two figure is a realistic timeline for "bitcoind version that doesn't allocate memory without checks and so doesn't crash in THAT particular way" ? << this actually raises the all-important question of priority list

04:57:14 ben_vulpes: ah hey check it out!

04:57:25 ben_vulpes: i get to strike #1 off the foundation todo list!

04:57:42 ben_vulpes: Goals:

04:57:43 ben_vulpes: 1. Cut a build

04:57:47 nubbins`: woop

04:58:00 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: guess what #2 is

04:58:09 nubbins`: jam it on a pogo!

04:58:24 ben_vulpes: hey

04:58:26 ben_vulpes: you

04:58:35 *: nubbins` zips lips, raises hand

04:59:08 ben_vulpes: nubbins`?

04:59:19 nubbins`: spoke outta turn!

04:59:29 ben_vulpes: i'm calling on you lol

04:59:57 ben_vulpes: and no, it's not pogo

05:02:04 *: asciilifeform hasn't a clue

05:02:05 nubbins`: REGRESSION TESTING!

05:02:13 ben_vulpes: bastard block fix.

05:02:20 nubbins`: YEAH!

05:02:31 ben_vulpes: nubbins` pre-release regression testing is pretty dumb-dumb right now

05:02:33 ben_vulpes: build

05:02:35 nubbins`: ha

05:02:35 ben_vulpes: sync with mainnet

05:02:44 ben_vulpes: send

05:02:50 ben_vulpes: well, send *to*

05:02:53 asciilifeform: eh i know it isn't 'sexy' but don't forget the seed list.

05:02:55 ben_vulpes: then send *from*

05:03:03 asciilifeform: the one that's in there now is unusable.

05:03:13 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: right hang on let me diddle this text for a second

05:03:15 nubbins`: we'll need more seeds

05:03:21 asciilifeform: and did the dns seed snip ever get merged ?

05:03:25 ben_vulpes: no.

05:03:29 ben_vulpes: maybe?

05:03:36 asciilifeform: aha so it's pointing straight at phoundation's dns

05:03:44 *: ben_vulpes checks turdolator

05:03:48 asciilifeform: they can send the whole lot of us to dev/null

05:03:49 nubbins`: i don't think so

05:04:00 nubbins`: almost certainly not, no

05:04:31 ben_vulpes: anyone who runs without -connect is asking for it in the arse.

05:06:14 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069706 << of course.

05:06:14 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:21:10; trinque: up to the operator to deploy updates later?

05:07:16 ben_vulpes: kark its breeks lol

05:07:43 ben_vulpes: what does that even *mean* asciilifeform?

05:08:08 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069747 <forget it, user can load new brew like he loaded the original ois.

05:08:08 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:29:57; asciilifeform: at the very minimum, development units ought to have it

05:08:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually he can't

05:08:25 mircea_popescu: that's my point.

05:08:35 mircea_popescu: serviceable 19 dollar units ? gtfo.

05:08:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if 'humane' can open shell when that programmable button near the jack is pressed

05:09:36 mircea_popescu: once they make a 4gb unit for ~25 we'll think about it ?

05:09:58 ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/3F70MCT.txt << current contents of foundation hopes and dreams and todos list, attn asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, mod6, nubbins`, decimation, trinque et al

05:09:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CX4Dkx )

05:09:59 asciilifeform: personally what i'd do is look for and verify foundation gpg sig on tarball on sd card when button pressed

05:10:06 asciilifeform: and no other behaviour

05:10:08 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069773 << some crates, yes.

05:10:08 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:33:41; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu iirc had some

05:10:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and now you gotta add gpg and debug it and srsly...

05:10:32 mircea_popescu: forget it, you want to upgrade get a new unit.

05:10:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gpg fits handily on the nand

05:10:39 ben_vulpes: heh i like that.

05:10:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if these were still made and we could parachute them around the world - that'd be one thing

05:10:59 asciilifeform: but they aren't

05:11:06 asciilifeform: and we haven't so many.

05:11:14 mircea_popescu: so then we buy more.

05:11:18 asciilifeform: and getting physical objects from one place to another is still pretty hard.

05:11:41 mircea_popescu: no dude. you're trying to raise the engineering bill by 1000s of dollah to save pennies.

05:11:46 nubbins`: http://www.essexb2b.com/auction/auction/view/id/3195/

05:11:48 assbot: 1 Pallet of PogoPlug Personal Cloud, New Condition, 100 Units, Retail $2,100, LaVergne, TN, PLT186057 | Closes: Oct 16, 2014 12:00:00 PM PDT | Essex B2B Liquidations ... ( http://bit.ly/1CX4PQN )

05:11:48 mircea_popescu: then you complain that no time and stuff. srsly.

05:11:53 nubbins`: $4ea!

05:11:58 nubbins`: shame

05:12:04 mircea_popescu: nubbins` can you store a pellet ?

05:12:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rolling in gpg1 is 1000s ?

05:12:16 nubbins`: mircea_popescu not as easily as a box of tees 8)

05:12:41 asciilifeform: wrong pogo!!!

05:12:47 mircea_popescu: ah yeah not the right kind

05:12:52 asciilifeform: or wait

05:13:02 mircea_popescu: it's the no disk one innit ?

05:13:03 asciilifeform: -may be- the right

05:13:10 nubbins`: looks like blue logo

05:13:12 nubbins`: no sata

05:13:12 asciilifeform: with previous type of box

05:13:19 asciilifeform: i see purple logo

05:13:23 asciilifeform: but blue box

05:13:24 asciilifeform: go figure

05:13:38 nubbins`: not sealed

05:13:39 nubbins`: heh

05:14:00 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069787 << handcarve it instead.

05:14:00 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:35:44; asciilifeform: i was considering lasering mine

05:14:00 nubbins`: anyway auction was last oct

05:14:16 asciilifeform: pictures on boxes suggest no sata

05:15:10 asciilifeform: (my boxes have an arrow pointing to the lid, 'removable and has sata')

05:15:11 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069800 << shenzen

05:15:11 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:37:57; nubbins`: anyone here have a lead on custom injection-molded plastics?

05:15:12 asciilifeform: these - no

05:16:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you have a favourite classical tarball of gpg, please consider sign and post it (with disclaimer similar to your collectible 0.5.3 tarball on listserv)

05:17:28 mircea_popescu: it's not even just that. gotta make sure it correctly takes and verifies the sigs now. etc etc.

05:17:38 asciilifeform: 1liner

05:18:12 mircea_popescu: ok, im redefinining my addictives list

05:18:17 asciilifeform: we already all hang from that particular parachute!

05:18:24 mircea_popescu: it's not just opioidis and nubbins`, it's also overengineering

05:18:30 asciilifeform: if it is used in the exact form we are accustomed to - i see no issue with it

05:18:39 nubbins`: you can't get enough of me 8)

05:19:13 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069841 << ahaha

05:19:13 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:46:57; ben_vulpes: i do this regularly, but in what scenario today?

05:19:52 nubbins`: if you wanted to do the acrylic slab + posts thing like the bitseed or w/e node

05:19:59 nubbins`: you could put whatever lid on the pogo you wanted

05:20:03 nubbins`: ditch the case altogether

05:20:05 nubbins`: dat dust tho

05:20:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ...overengineering << 'Русские долго запрягают, но быстро едут.' << bismarck!

05:20:21 nubbins`: dat added cost

05:20:23 nubbins`: etc

05:20:29 asciilifeform: nubbins`: case holds the heatsink

05:20:34 asciilifeform: through mechanical pressure only

05:20:38 asciilifeform: go and try to run without.

05:23:32 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell brendafdez yo you know anyone renting bikes at not retarded tourist prices?

05:23:33 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:24:37 nubbins`: a

05:25:07 asciilifeform: incidentally, today's log is long enough that some of you may have missed my 'highlights of underhanded crypto contest' summaries.

05:25:10 asciilifeform: do not miss.

05:25:11 nubbins`: slab+post case could hold the heat sink too

05:25:14 asciilifeform: won't regret reading.

05:25:17 nubbins`: until you dropped it on a corner anyway

05:25:54 asciilifeform: nubbins`: it'd be almost less ugly to pour it in cement.

05:26:30 nubbins`: no kidding

05:26:41 asciilifeform: (anyone considering -actually- pouring electronics into cement - remember that it dries exothermically! need cooling)

05:26:45 nubbins`: colored logo could be easily removed

05:27:10 *: asciilifeform to bed

05:27:24 asciilifeform: if anyone does the honour of testing the 'turdel' - please post.

05:30:32 *: ben_vulpes weeps for log

05:31:41 nubbins`: alf will sleep the sleep of the just

05:32:26 ben_vulpes: http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/howto.txt << wowee, danielpbarron

05:32:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GSndrC )

05:35:57 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> seems that's 64 bit only now o.O << ahaha in between this line and my logreading mod6 posted a patch

05:36:04 ben_vulpes: hooray you fiend you

05:36:23 mircea_popescu: ayup

05:36:38 mircea_popescu: was keeping my fingers crossed for it being just you know, two lines and a whistle.

05:38:49 ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> we're assholes, yet here we are trying << "a for effort"

05:40:32 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (fwiw, my father informs me that this custom was unknown in his unit, and only expert was trusted with wrapping chutes) << Many ground pounders in the extended family, slosest one to using chute at all broke ankle on helachoppa repel

05:51:40 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

05:51:44 gribble: Current Blocks: 349129 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 1654 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 52321389587.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 11.99515

05:53:04 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069289 << no man, the solid *is* the drone.

05:53:04 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 00:37:43; assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 06:08:33; ben_vulpes: <decimation> I just thought of a brilliant anti-'area denial' (to usg term) weapon system. imagine a small turboprop uav ... that can drop its wings and turn into kerosene rocket << why bother with expensive turbomachinery? just use solid propellants...

05:53:07 ben_vulpes: it's just disposable.

05:53:15 ben_vulpes: and you can take fifty of them with you in a backpack...anywhere.

05:55:42 BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/307kye/an_entire_us_school_district_is_having_its_whole/cppze19

05:55:44 assbot: ButterNubber comments on An entire US school district is having its whole network held hostage for a 500 bitcoin ransom. The FBI and Homeland Security are getting involved. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GifYv8 )

05:58:55 mircea_popescu: alternatively, they coul;d just ditch shit-o-soft...

06:00:52 BingoBoingo: Or Coindesk/buzz could stop inflating the typical numbers ransomeware demands

06:01:11 ben_vulpes: just had a "don't blame the hackers" conversation.

06:01:29 ben_vulpes: "two decades of malicious microsoft sales. you have to expect the attacks, and the schools are simply the widest-open targets."

06:02:46 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Schools used to tend towards Mac fo a reason and that was Nvir vs all those damn DOS & Windows virii

06:03:24 ben_vulpes: okay i'm logged

06:03:29 ben_vulpes: no, nodes don't get updated.

06:04:20 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: keep it up

06:05:42 ben_vulpes: me, i have beds to burrow into

06:06:02 BingoBoingo: SO, brainstorm, could anything real be within 4x as fast as fundnations headers only?

06:10:14 mircea_popescu: wut ?

06:11:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have no backing for that brainturd. Just inundating el braino with tequila given seekrit mission otd.

06:16:21 mircea_popescu: :p

06:17:33 BingoBoingo: lol

06:23:02 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067789 << well, i'd expect no less from schneier.

06:23:02 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:41:46; mats: ive personally confirmed with schneier - in person - and have second-hand confirmations by others who have interacted with recipients of leaks

06:25:29 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067830 << the "tor stinks" evidence is in the public record.

06:25:29 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:51:20; mats: look, i'm putting my skepticism on the record. if there was evidence, it'd look like 'Tor Stinks' or the slides from Der Spiegel's work on the Belgacom pwnage. i'm not saying that Dual_EC_DRBG doesn't have obvious flaws or that anyone should continue using it, but my skepticism regarding it being an intentional backdoor remains

06:26:13 mircea_popescu: but importantly, your skepticism, while amply affirmed, is not supported by anything else. so you're skeptical of x theory, as an aesthetic matter. good for you. what's that do ?

06:27:26 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067841 << and more importantly : improductive to try. the guy who we hang if we consider it malice doesn't belong to us anyway. if he were in the wot maybe the point would be remotely worht considering

06:27:26 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:54:16; fluffypony: I think it's very hard to tell the difference between mistake and malice.

06:27:38 mircea_popescu: but for the fate of a random usg muppet ? dude, burn him down, his name won't even be remembered.

06:27:40 mircea_popescu: who cares ?

06:29:30 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067856 << all the excitedness about it recently re bitcoin does make it look suspicious.

06:29:30 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:55:51; fluffypony: DJB believes secp256k1 is broken

06:30:28 BingoBoingo: More suspicious than niggers.o as a library function?

06:31:44 mircea_popescu: on the other hand, Daniel J. Bernstein is merely going by ec2, which is based on cm field discriminants / laders and indistinguishability

06:31:54 mircea_popescu: none of these seem, at least superficially, to be directly relevant to the usecase.

06:32:48 mircea_popescu: particularly the ladder... so it's not a montgommery curve. so what.

06:33:18 BingoBoingo: DJB also has inherent paranoia to the point http://www.crazymeds.us/CrazyTalk/index.php/forum/23-risperdal-risperidone-invega-paliperidone/ to the point of lactation may be a substitute for grains of salt

06:33:20 assbot: Risperdal (risperidone) & Invega (paliperidone) - Crazy Talk: The Crazymeds Forum ... ( http://bit.ly/1BkTKD4 )

06:34:30 nubbins`: <gmaxwell> ugh: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30562s/bitnodes_will_be_releasing_plug_play_bitcoin_node/ ... we removed bitnodes as a dnsseed in bitcoin core because they kept engaging in sketchy behavior, and IMO dishonest. (e.g. we'd ask them to stop connecting at super high frequency to monitor every node in the network, and they said they would.. and a month later they instead had a perpetual

06:34:32 assbot: Bitnodes will be releasing plug & play Bitcoin node hardware mid-2015! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1BkTWT0 )

06:34:50 mircea_popescu: the cm field issue is probably the most concerning, and if there's a baked in backdoor (something like, say, nsa is able to directly see through maybe 10% of all keys ever generated ?) that's where it'd be, that 3= -1 * 3≈ -2^1.6 property it shares with weak curves like bn(2,254) etc.

06:37:12 nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> http://dpaste.com/3F70MCT.txt << current contents of foundation hopes and dreams and todos list << it vanished, dpaste sux

06:37:13 assbot: Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1BkUnMR )

06:37:33 mircea_popescu: well alternatively a) deedbot b) set the damned timer.

06:37:57 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067870 << heh, alf is more poetic than me.

06:37:57 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:01:59; asciilifeform: yes, some crypto designers make mistake, they are good people, sure, whatever. i will borrow from slavoj ?i?ek and say then 'we put them to a good wall, shoot them with a good bullet from a good gun, and bury them in with a good shove in the good earth' - since sure, they are good people.

06:39:12 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067898 << fleas do not come from dirt.

06:39:12 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:05:28; asciilifeform: that from -tolerasty- comes poettering & crew.

06:39:51 midnightmagic: BingoBoingo: sorry.. what? lactation and salt paranoia?

06:40:53 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067925 << a request not unlike "so you found drugs in his car ? but where's the notebook ? no notebook, no conviction!"

06:40:53 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:13:34; mats: show me the motherfucking evidence! you mean to tell me these bureaucrats decided not to commit anything to paper this go-around?

06:40:54 Adlai: re: montgomery ladder, you can implement constant-time secp256k1, but it's a pita

06:41:03 mircea_popescu: Adlai it is.

06:41:09 BingoBoingo: midnightmagic: Oh, I was jsut supposing risperidone as an alternative to grains of salt

06:41:15 mircea_popescu: not sure it's particularly a point of interest for bitcoin for that matter.

06:41:25 Adlai: (this seems to be djb's real reason behind discounting curves without a *convenient* constant-time algorithm)

06:41:36 mircea_popescu: only on THAT one score.

06:41:47 mircea_popescu: 256k1 fails VERY hard on what are more relevant criteria.

06:42:27 trinque: nubbins` | <+ben_vulpes> http://dpaste.com/3F70MCT.txt << current contents of foundation hopes and dreams and todos list << it vanished, dpaste sux << had the tab http://dpaste.com/2MAHAB9.txt

06:42:28 assbot: Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1GizasF )

06:42:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GizaJ8 )

06:42:41 mircea_popescu: FIRST B-A LEAK!11

06:42:50 trinque: boom

06:43:15 BingoBoingo: Someone pkg_add for qntra and claim words/shares

06:44:15 nubbins`: aww yeah

06:45:21 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067965 << another one

06:45:21 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:35:34; nubbins`: this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university

06:45:24 mircea_popescu: buncha cultists.

06:45:45 nubbins`: i know, and all they gave me was a b.sc.

06:46:22 *: BingoBoingo has an M.I.Forget.All.The.Letters

06:50:03 ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/3F70MCT.txt << myup, fat-fingered the expiration

06:50:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BkWWhZ )

06:50:55 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068035 << no, it's a claim made here.

06:50:55 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:22:37; mats: the claim i'm most concerned about is that the weakness was engineered by NSA, and that, by having approved it, NIST was complicit, thus casting doubt on all other NIST standards

06:51:22 mircea_popescu: nist specifically is hostis humani generis due to that and similar mishaps.

06:51:38 BingoBoingo: Everything about NIST that isn't pure time sucks

06:52:24 BingoBoingo: Even then Rubidium standards are cheap. Run Ntpd as Stratum 1.

06:52:48 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068045 << no "figuring out" is contemplated or desired. that division is desired, so that the loafers can dangle.

06:52:48 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:27:38; mats: leaving us with no real basis for actually figuring out the situation.

06:53:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 290 @ 0.00347999 = 1.0092 BTC [+] {2}

06:53:22 mircea_popescu: the point of a functioning intellect isn't to make one one with the universe. the point of a functioning intellect is to make it impossible for the universe to make itself one with one.

06:53:38 mircea_popescu: as in, i don't think so i can go wallow in the mud. i think so the mud can't come wallowing on me.

06:55:29 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> as in, i don't think so i can go wallow in the mud. i think so the mud can't come wallowing on me. << I wasted years 19 to 27 with the contrapositive here pls don't make the mistake

06:56:29 nubbins`: sleep

06:58:46 mircea_popescu: lol check out pete_dushenski writing lots

06:59:08 BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez

06:59:23 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm pround of pete

06:59:42 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068066 << a possible explanation is that jamaica has been turned by its reputation for "place for middle aged white women to come have a brown baby" into a very specific sort of strip joint.

06:59:42 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:47:19; pete_dushenski: on one end is disinterest, a la paris or w/e, on the other end is entitlement

06:59:58 mircea_popescu: you wouldn't complain that the strippers don't wait on tables properly, would you ? as a woman ?

07:00:32 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: well ty

07:00:52 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> you wouldn't complain that the strippers don't wait on tables properly, would you ? as a woman ? << Serious labor problem here in the Middle West. Strippers aren't table servers

07:00:57 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: suppose not.

07:01:06 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068081 << this is a discogent antiargument because people here don't generally dig ditches for a living. obviously someone who leverages doesn't revert to data entry as a job.

07:01:06 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:50:29; nubbins`: how much of your own time do you waste on maybes?

07:02:06 brendafdez: I was just approved to join the linux for women mailing list. In the welcome email I'm both reminded that 'what happens on list stays on list' (no archives or sharing) and they also say literally "You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: XGx4#KmI#HeF%P7C^ Normally, Mailman will remind you of your linuxchix.org mailing list passwords once every month, alt

07:02:06 brendafdez: hough you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you."

07:02:42 brendafdez: I like it when they tell me right away that their security is crap. So I don't have to wonder. Here, hashed what?

07:02:52 pete_dushenski: sweet, sweet leverage

07:02:59 mircea_popescu: http://www.cuckoldvideoclips.com/myslutwife2/ sauce.

07:03:00 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BkZ9u0 )

07:03:11 pete_dushenski: speaking of which, turns out that bitcoin atms can actually make a buck!

07:03:34 pete_dushenski: ;;seen adamobrien

07:03:35 gribble: I have not seen adamobrien.

07:03:45 pete_dushenski: or what was it...

07:04:53 pete_dushenski: ;;seen adam_obrien

07:04:53 gribble: adam_obrien was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 48 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <adam_obrien> I have to run here, if any of you need Bitcoin give me a ping adam@btcsolutions.ca

07:05:48 pete_dushenski: ^we had coffee today and apparently one of his lamassus did CAD$25k in transactions last month. at 8% commission

07:06:49 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068136 << every idiot's approach works well enough for him. shit, mr lazer handycraftsman's approach workes well enough for him

07:06:49 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 17:04:54; nubbins`: anyway tl;dr their approach works well enough for them

07:06:54 mircea_popescu: and for the forum retards at that.

07:07:02 pete_dushenski: he has a couple other too, none do quite that well but i was reasonably impressed that he hadn't lost his shirt

07:07:57 pete_dushenski: probably helps that cavirtex is tubed.

07:08:33 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068157 << clearly shot down by the italian separatists under berlusconi

07:08:33 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 17:14:37; pete_dushenski: this is assuming it wasn't hacked, shot down, etc.

07:09:12 pete_dushenski: 'clearly' because ... ?

07:10:06 mircea_popescu: you don't understand how the world works.

07:10:12 mircea_popescu: italy is massing army at the french border

07:10:14 mircea_popescu: herpity-derp

07:10:39 mircea_popescu: those imperialistic dreams of the papal states were apparently never extinguished!

07:10:59 pete_dushenski: lol aok

07:11:40 pete_dushenski: well i for one would like to see what the argentinian in the big house could muster as far as a military goes

07:12:36 mircea_popescu: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54bb4cfce4b045585ada36f7/t/5510d89ce4b0fda1fcf4a144/1427167390317/ << o look, overweight, impotent, irrelvant and fundamentally cowardly white middleaged men clining to the unwarranted pretense of relevance.

07:12:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xxAFS9 )

07:12:43 mircea_popescu: srsly guise, you do all that ?

07:12:47 pete_dushenski: he's in far better condition to charge into battle than the hitler youth opa

07:12:47 mircea_popescu: i bet your mom cares.

07:13:14 pete_dushenski: ha, just read that too

07:13:16 mircea_popescu: battle i dunno about, but off tune melee for a few hours - sure.

07:14:09 pete_dushenski: symbolically sufficient

07:15:15 mircea_popescu: ascii_field:

07:15:15 mircea_popescu: 'According to reporting, "1.6 percent of developers earn more than the other 98.4 percent combined. And the bottom 47 percent of engineers earn less than $100 per month." << o chjecxk it out asciilifeform! as jurov sayz, clearly this isn't working o.O

07:15:50 mircea_popescu: note that out of that 1.6%, about 1.5% is state-sponsored crapolade a la zynga. leaving the other 0.1% with an accidental 55k this year, which is barely enough to you know, pay rent.

07:15:53 mircea_popescu: and next year...

07:15:54 brendafdez: such inequality

07:15:57 pete_dushenski: ^the 'gold rush'

07:15:57 mircea_popescu: well you don't win the lottery each year.

07:16:27 pete_dushenski: sorta like mining btc on your laptop

07:16:48 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068229 << see! it bothers you when usians do it. somehow, orlov-tolerant.

07:16:48 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:03:12; ascii_field: or do words have no meaning to him

07:16:51 mircea_popescu: nationalist!

07:18:13 pete_dushenski: nationalist workerbee. best defense against meta problem!

07:18:24 *: BingoBoingo is tone deaf

07:18:45 *: BingoBoingo did not know I was tone deaf until admited to US college as music specialist

07:19:02 pete_dushenski: you'll just have to trust me that i'm a decent singer then.

07:19:18 *: BingoBoingo is great at karaoke though

07:20:10 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo most people that i've seen karaoke fit this boring midwestern 30something so-so woman type.

07:20:28 mircea_popescu: to the point in my head it connotes that, like bingo connotes old jewish women

07:21:08 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo most people that i've seen karaoke fit this boring midwestern 30something so-so woman type. << But that's easy mode to getting your dick wet. It works

07:21:47 pete_dushenski: cheek-pinching connotes stereotypical old jewish women for me

07:22:48 pete_dushenski: real ones: schmetten torte

07:23:04 BingoBoingo: I dunno that I've ever met an old jewish woman

07:24:13 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068268 << i spent prolly 3-500 bucks on my foray in ipad gaming

07:24:13 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:15:00; funkenstein_: i refuse to admit that any creature would pay for an app

07:24:54 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: some are sneaky. you may have met one and not known it.

07:25:39 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I've met plenty of young jews and gotten along fine. The mythic old jews are something else

07:26:40 pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l3wco9zVao << 'you can barely see her horns'

07:26:41 assbot: borat at jews house - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1xxCcHU )

07:26:41 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068306 << ayup

07:26:41 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:21:31; trinque: best thing about gossipd is probably going to be writing software around it

07:27:46 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070096 << so is this where you, like, finally !rate me or something ?

07:27:46 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 06:59:23; BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm pround of pete

07:28:05 mircea_popescu: !rated pete_dushenski

07:28:05 assbot: You rated user pete_dushenski on 08-Jul-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Pimp..

07:29:08 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I thought I rated you earlier. If not leave a not. I'm too pickled atm to access important keys. Insufficiently skilled at the knife.

07:29:37 brendafdez: Scared that drugs would work?

07:29:41 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068333 << there's exactly one field where payware is the only weay to go, and that's games.

07:29:41 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:24:31; ascii_field: nubbins`: payware costing money is by far the least significant problem with it, in my experience

07:30:44 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell BingoBoingo please to be less pickled :D

07:30:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00021785 = 1.3507 BTC [-]

07:30:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

07:32:07 mircea_popescu: lol there's little more amusing than seeing people try various fringe ideologies on b-a.

07:32:18 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: That would involve untrusted 3rd parties

07:32:28 mircea_popescu: dudes you should totally not eat meat and use free software!

07:33:21 pete_dushenski: or not eat software and use free meat.

07:33:25 BingoBoingo: brendafdez: Certain classes of drugs have a history of being very effectual on me, but most drugs dropped in drink I have a strongly trained cross tolerance to.

07:33:42 mircea_popescu: i do use free meat!

07:33:57 mircea_popescu: uh i mean... i freely use meat.

07:34:10 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: well, i'll bug you another time i guess. i just tend to strike when the iron is hot, even if the iron is also blackout wasted.

07:34:37 Adlai: ;;ticker --market all

07:34:43 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 237.14, vol: 21462.80141475 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 235.98, vol: 15570.03822 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 236.01, vol: 76464.99214271 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 244.0, vol: 54.30174294 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 233.579688, vol: 199715.62230000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 240.0, vol: 37.55828405 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 242.7126, vol: 148.46250756 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)

07:34:55 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: But when the backbody is emitting in the IR spectrum>

07:34:57 BingoBoingo: ?

07:35:45 pete_dushenski: hopefully the front isn't ?

07:37:46 BingoBoingo: lol

07:38:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00021785 = 1.416 BTC [-]

07:41:40 BingoBoingo: !up badon

07:45:09 pete_dushenski: "Jordan has signed a $10bn deal with Russia to build the kingdom's first nuclear power plant, with two 1,000-megawatt reactors in the country's north." << someone is actually building nuclear reactors these days.

07:46:07 BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> "Jordan has signed a $10bn deal with Russia to build the kingdom's first nuclear power plant, with two 1,000-megawatt reactors in the country's north." << someone is actually building nuclear reactors these days. << /me remembers when King Hussein was the "Good Guy" (TM)

07:46:14 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1068531 << this made exactly no sense.

07:46:14 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 20:01:21; thestringpuller: ascii_field: snore for now, but if they start selling, they lower barrier to fork.

07:46:26 pete_dushenski: i should say, 'someone is importing reactor designs'

07:46:36 mircea_popescu: you don't seriously imagine the rasbperry pi 150 dollar node a) can achieve critical mass or b) can support gavincoin ?

07:46:52 mircea_popescu: a is a non starter because their demo is reddit demo = poor people. it has to be free or no dice.

07:46:58 mircea_popescu: b is a non starter because srsly, do the maffs.

07:47:13 mircea_popescu: all that thing's doing is a more expensive, less useful, bitcoin node.

07:47:39 pete_dushenski: i'm guessing that china, russia, india reactors are in-house worx

07:48:12 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: not so long ago eh.

07:49:16 BingoBoingo: I support thestringpuller's idea that it could be dangerous because how much can it cost USG to rack 3 tons of banana pi's

07:52:19 pete_dushenski: except gov't doesn't do economical things like that

07:52:27 pete_dushenski: it's nature is to do uneconomical things.

07:52:32 pete_dushenski: its*

07:53:37 *: BingoBoingo wonders if anyone else here remembers when the Library marketed LOCKSS solution was based on OBSD

07:58:23 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dangerous doing what.

07:59:35 BingoBoingo: When did I say dangerous in this convo tonight?

07:59:56 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> I support thestringpuller's idea that it could be dangerous <

08:00:10 BingoBoingo: I was just asking if people remember a distributed memory safe system beign abandoned.

08:00:15 mircea_popescu: and holy shit this logging up took forever.

08:00:44 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo mebbe i misread.

08:00:49 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> <BingoBoingo> I support thestringpuller's idea that it could be dangerous < << Ah, I'm just thinking he might have a better measure of the enemy's pulse.

08:01:01 mircea_popescu: better than whom, and why would that be ?

08:01:32 mircea_popescu: dude look at that graph, mpoe fell of a cliff in slow motion.

08:01:44 mircea_popescu: and it follows the bitcoin curve to boot!

08:01:59 mircea_popescu: someone been playing teh big bad wolf ? i hope i haven't disappointed by not being impressed ?

08:02:12 BingoBoingo: ''vishnuplug

08:02:20 BingoBoingo: ^FU

08:04:14 *: BingoBoingo feels liek ButtBetting Soon

08:08:13 pete_dushenski: alright gang, off to dream about the next papal wars.

08:08:19 pete_dushenski: g'night

08:11:51 mircea_popescu: it totally was a puk missile!

08:13:06 mircea_popescu: cazalla im not so sure about "differnent site". in any case same quantcast codes, so...

08:14:04 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cazalla im not so sure about "differnent site". in any case same quantcast codes, so... << SHHHHHH.... same atm

08:14:17 mircea_popescu: so they should be.

08:14:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18950 @ 0.00021896 = 4.1493 BTC [+] {2}

08:31:04 BingoBoingo: !up beetcoin

08:31:08 BingoBoingo: !up HeySteve

08:31:16 BingoBoingo: !up gabridome

09:07:14 brendafdez: <BingoBoingo> Feel free to ask in chan why Bingo loves the Motorola 68K chips

09:07:22 brendafdez: if you ask me to ask ;)

09:07:47 BingoBoingo: lol, because I can play mario on my calculator

09:08:02 BingoBoingo: :;

09:08:45 brendafdez: i had a TI-86 to cheat in school

09:09:05 BingoBoingo: skipped it for the -89

09:09:35 brendafdez: 8)

09:10:06 BingoBoingo: The -89 did algebra if you put it in right...

09:10:55 brendafdez: i never got algebra, it was like as far as i can write notes, the calculator is ok for me

09:11:24 BingoBoingo: Algebra can have a lot of meanings

09:11:52 brendafdez: i'll feel dumb discussing it here, now i regret moving to chan :P

09:12:15 BingoBoingo: Algebra spans a spectrum from HS math to Gimme meth Imma not Erdos

09:12:45 jurov: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-03-25 heh

09:12:46 assbot: Wally Does Economic Babble Talk - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2015-03-25 | Dilbert by Scott Adams ... ( http://bit.ly/1GjAGuF )

09:13:14 BingoBoingo: Wally knows,

09:13:29 BingoBoingo: Wally fucking knows!

09:13:35 brendafdez: what i know is that i failed every single exam in my life which had word algebra somewhere

09:13:56 brendafdez: consistent results, always miserable utter failure

09:14:09 BingoBoingo: ;(

09:15:00 brendafdez: back then i thoguth i was oing to study engineering but this made me change my mind and say, ok... maybe law will be easier, less numbers, no algebra. Sadly no calculator to cheat either.

09:15:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27473 @ 0.00022178 = 6.093 BTC [+] {2}

09:16:03 *: BingoBoingo thought was going to be mathmagician, downgraded to teacher, to lawyer, to librarian

09:16:43 brendafdez: i ended up just being a pretend bitcoiner

09:17:06 brendafdez: didn't last more than a year in law school either, although it was in fact easier than math

09:18:45 *: BingoBoingo nevar made it from applied to law student in spite of 178 on LSat assumed to naturally shady to be a lawyer

09:27:11 cazalla: wru scoopbot

09:28:35 davout: jurov: kek

09:28:49 mircea_popescu: o check it out, a davout

09:29:06 davout: yeah, touch me i'm french

09:29:21 mircea_popescu: can i kiss you you're french ?

09:30:02 davout: no tongue plox

09:30:09 mircea_popescu: no, tongue is british.

09:30:32 davout: fish & chips is british, all the rest was invented by the french

09:30:38 mircea_popescu: haha, dilbert does butts now ?!

09:31:55 cazalla: i hear brendafdez has got a baby in es.qntra.net

09:32:12 cazalla: hop to it, your shares await brendafdez

09:32:15 davout: me gusta

09:32:55 brendafdez: <brendafdez> I always take a long time before I do anything, so as to be sure that I won't fail to disappoint everyone involved.

09:32:55 brendafdez: <BingoBoingo> Ah

09:33:25 mircea_popescu: brendafdez better get out of the defensive shell of stupid and work your butt off, i think.

09:34:05 cazalla: i'm catching up on logs so i'm sure i'll get to that discussion soon

09:34:50 mircea_popescu: wasn't in there i dun think ?

09:35:32 cazalla: mircea_popescu, oh? i thought she was quoting herself from an earlier conversation or something

09:35:43 *: BingoBoingo a liter in deeper than when I last touched the skunkswork project

09:36:06 mircea_popescu: prolly private.

09:36:16 BingoBoingo: What isn't?

09:36:49 mircea_popescu: cazalla i was thinking btw, on the general principle of translations. what do you think of a model where translations, be they en to es, or es to en or cn to en or whatever they may be count for half the shares ?

09:36:51 BingoBoingo: It isn't like I plan to battle syphillis anytime soon again

09:37:22 mircea_popescu: also, articles written by drunk people only counted for 13.37% of normal wordage?

09:37:38 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cazalla i was thinking btw, on the general principle of translations. what do you think of a model where translations, be they en to es, or es to en or cn to en or whatever they may be count for half the shares ? << +10%vote unless that is horribly uneconomical

09:37:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00022406 = 6.6098 BTC [+] {3}

09:37:57 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> also, articles written by drunk people only counted for 13.37% of normal wordage? << Also totes fair

09:37:58 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's +10%vote mean ?

09:38:28 davout: mircea_popescu: half the shares of the original article? or half the shares of the translated piece? i'd say the former makes more sense

09:38:54 mircea_popescu: hm.

09:39:08 mircea_popescu: shit. languages are so fucking difficult.

09:39:22 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo what's +10%vote mean ? << You and cazalla are 20% a piece I throw my 10% behind translations, because we aren't fucking Cointelegrah with seperate US and UK press releases

09:39:33 mircea_popescu: the first time today i sat here and couldn't figure out a problem was when i tried to parse davout's proposal. brain just can't cope.

09:39:49 cazalla: BingoBoingo, they have indian and greek too now!

09:39:51 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so you're thinking translation more like 2/3 ?

09:40:34 mircea_popescu: davout how do you figure which makes more sense ?

09:40:36 BingoBoingo: I thin translation is between 1/2 to 2/3rds. A full 1 if from strange to Eng

09:41:06 cazalla: i really don't see the issue with matching it 1:1 on the basis translation is useful, es not as much as cn but still

09:41:06 davout: mircea_popescu: some languages are much shorter than others, dutch is much denser than french for example

09:41:14 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the thing is, if you give them parity you'll end up with you know, hungarian translation of 500 qntra articles diluting you to shit.

09:41:39 cazalla: but then seeing i can only speaka da english , i am prolly not qualified to "opine" on such matters lol

09:41:40 mircea_popescu: cazalla so then let them be 1:1 but only allow basically es, en, cn and mebbe portuguese ?

09:41:50 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo the thing is, if you give them parity you'll end up with you know, hungarian translation of 500 qntra articles diluting you to shit << Editors discretion. Fucking hungarian sucks, not a lang

09:42:03 mircea_popescu: it's as much a language as finish is!

09:42:16 BingoBoingo: Finish not a lang either, it is a goal

09:42:20 mircea_popescu: and before you dismiss that, you should see what fucking tits & ass lean tall blonde stuff they produce!

09:42:28 cazalla: why would we want anything other than spanish and chinesey?

09:42:45 mircea_popescu: cazalla so basically, extended cultural imperialism ?

09:42:49 mircea_popescu: i dunno, i could go withj that.

09:42:51 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I hurd they were on US feminist diabeetus diet

09:42:59 cazalla: maybe arabic

09:43:07 cazalla: but other than that, those are top 3 next to english i assume

09:43:08 mircea_popescu: but prolly portuguese > spanish, on account of... well... brazil is like > south america.

09:43:17 cazalla: oh russian.. here we go, give an inch..

09:43:22 mircea_popescu: right ?

09:43:43 mircea_popescu: russian, japanese right ? then all the arabs will get pissy because why do we pick the one or the other ?

09:43:58 BingoBoingo: I could see placing spanish well before portugese because fuck brazil if they aren't waxing

09:44:05 mircea_popescu: but i don't think we can go "all bitcoin happens in english fuck you"

09:44:13 BingoBoingo: Not at all

09:44:28 Adlai: put it to shareholder votes. want more incentive for translations in your language? gotta pay to have a say, like in 'real' politics

09:44:31 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo brazil is waxing yo. and btw, general point : girls get their tit implants age 16 down here.

09:44:37 BingoBoingo: I think we focus on trade languages of En ES and Fu

09:44:47 mircea_popescu: it's like a bat mitzvah gift.

09:45:01 brendafdez: tit implants :)

09:45:11 mircea_popescu: Adlai how are the shareholders paying exactly ?

09:45:57 Adlai: those who want more compensation for translators to some language, must buy shares in order to have their voices heard/regarded by the editors

09:46:15 mircea_popescu: yeah, that's totally how that'll work.

09:46:16 brendafdez: <mircea_popescu> brendafdez better get out of the defensive shell of stupid and work your butt off, i think. << oops ;)

09:46:27 Adlai: (or they earn their shares the usual way)

09:47:05 cazalla: <BingoBoingo> I could see placing spanish well before portugese because fuck brazil if they aren't waxing <<< so muff is ok ya know

09:47:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I am totally fine with the En language space surrendering except as a pidgin used in trade. If you let a single slant language into the acceptable trading space though. I sense trouble. Don't know of, but anticipate

09:47:08 cazalla: some even

09:47:19 BingoBoingo: Muff is greap

09:47:35 BingoBoingo: Muff gives my beard something to socialize with

09:47:36 mircea_popescu: cazalla he just doesn't want hair in the asshole is all.

09:47:57 cazalla: but they poop from there, so i don't care, not going near butthole either way

09:48:14 mircea_popescu: some women wash.

09:48:16 BingoBoingo: You affraid of the poop muff?

09:48:52 mircea_popescu: fun fact : most large felines don't know how to shit as infants, so the mother licks their asshole to stimulate bowel movements.

09:48:59 mircea_popescu: think your life sucks ? at least you're not mom jaguar.

09:49:18 cazalla: i can just see you as the romanian vers of it's only smellz

09:49:24 mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, works in constipated human infants too.)

09:49:32 BingoBoingo: Same kinda happens for primates, you ever seen reddit and momma chimp

09:50:04 brendafdez: black kiss, just what the doctor ordered

09:50:17 mircea_popescu: ordured, but anyway.

09:51:39 BingoBoingo: I just think it is too early to surrender to the chicoms. Even though I could prolly bang out a qntra.chicom in 45 minutes if I wasn't so pickled atm.

09:51:50 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070253 << /me thinks back, realises that... you know what ? i've never actually failed an exam in my life.

09:51:50 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 09:13:35; brendafdez: what i know is that i failed every single exam in my life which had word algebra somewhere

09:52:50 *: BingoBoingo still takes the LSAT on commision for select bidders

09:54:14 *: BingoBoingo is sure most people's best chance at passing the bar is hiring me to ident as them through law school

09:54:50 mircea_popescu: lol

09:55:09 BingoBoingo: I've actually made this offer before.

09:56:10 *: BingoBoingo has never scored lower than 176/180 on the LSAT. I am the full package law school Fast Forward button.

09:56:41 mircea_popescu: so you could get me a law degree just in time for lawsky being extradited to serenissima jurisdiction so i can da myself personally ?

09:57:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8543 @ 0.00021886 = 1.8697 BTC [-]

09:58:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00021643 = 2.2509 BTC [-]

09:58:37 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Pretty much, so long as you offer me an identify that does not have a history of long term use of lamotrinine of chloro-amphetamines

09:58:59 mircea_popescu: you should prolly make that offer in chinese.

09:59:57 BingoBoingo: I prolly should. Not enough people take it up in English.

10:00:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00021505 = 1.0968 BTC [-]

10:00:14 cazalla: BingoBoingo, ya know, big business down under in writing papers for uni students, big drama other week regarding it http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mymaster-essay-cheating-scandal-more-than-70-university-students-face-suspension-20150318-1425oe.html

10:00:18 assbot: MyMaster essay cheating scandal: More than 70 university students face suspension ... ( http://bit.ly/1BlyVr2 )

10:00:57 BingoBoingo: cazalla: You never write for students, you BE the students

10:01:22 cazalla: sounds like a lot of effort

10:01:32 cazalla: how well can a student pay you for pretending to be them?

10:02:16 BingoBoingo: enough

10:02:26 BingoBoingo: Do they, no

10:02:37 cazalla: and good luck getting rolling down drunk and turning up in person, at least you can do online tests and write for them at home while drunk

10:03:46 mircea_popescu: cazalla he probably only does it for the free rape

10:03:59 mircea_popescu: "phteven with a ph did it!"

10:04:06 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Have I ever told you about my GRE story?

10:04:22 cazalla: BingoBoingo, i don't even know what GRE is so, no

10:04:34 mircea_popescu: let some dude show up for you in exams today, be cited for 198 gang rapes next tuesday

10:04:34 cazalla: but if it's you turning up blind drunk and acing a test, i'd believe it

10:04:42 cazalla: lolol

10:04:55 mircea_popescu: america!

10:05:17 mircea_popescu: also, beneficial identity theft!

10:05:29 BingoBoingo: <cazalla> but if it's you turning up blind drunk and acing a test, i'd believe it << Since 1998 when the injun store stopped carding me

10:06:19 cazalla: BingoBoingo, ya know i use to get carded when i was 16, but i was smart enough to know the guy working at the bottle shop probably couldn't subtract my age from the current year, so he would glance at my provisional drivers licence and ring up my drinks no probs

10:07:16 cazalla: my dob i means to say

10:07:42 mircea_popescu: this "carding" thing...

10:07:55 *: BingoBoingo has alway done the deception thing

10:08:07 cazalla: means something else where you're from eh mircea_popescu

10:08:17 *: mircea_popescu had a drink at his junior high prom. which was held in a bar. because romanians didn't actually give a shit.

10:08:34 mircea_popescu: the other kids didn't, because kids.

10:09:18 BingoBoingo: * mircea_popescu had a drink at his junior high prom. which was held in a bar. because romanians didn't actually give a shit. << Wait Wut, you only had one drink at prom? Junior year I was trying to keep pace with Anya.

10:09:35 cazalla: BingoBoingo, ease up, he's a light drinker

10:09:37 mircea_popescu: that's kinda the thing, if it's not a big deal it just... isn't a big deal.

10:10:10 mircea_popescu: cazalla heh notrly. my high mark is putting away something over a liter of 50% moonshine and then walking out.

10:10:24 mircea_popescu: i suspek that makes me a heavy drinker, at least at the time.

10:10:26 BingoBoingo: Drink is totally not a big deal. In the same way standardized tests in the US are not a big deal. The cost to pass maximally is trivial.

10:10:55 mircea_popescu: but in truth i dun really drink like i used to.

10:11:07 cazalla: i suspek gypies sell non-alcoholic wine to young romanian men as american's sell oregano to the teens :P

10:12:06 mircea_popescu: i never saw non-alcoholic wine in yurp.

10:12:09 mircea_popescu: real thing too abundant.

10:12:50 cazalla: yeah my opa use to make it, locked him in the cellar once, such a hiding for that one

10:13:15 cazalla: the funny thing is, i could've left him in there but i was so frightened that i opened it so that he could beat me

10:13:41 cazalla: prob had war flash backs or something, he went fkn bananas

10:14:31 mircea_popescu: romania (at least the nw, where i'm from) is all about this particular plum distilate.

10:14:48 mircea_popescu: most respectable older men run their own stills, and they usually leak and are in basements

10:15:02 mircea_popescu: so when it's firing time... buncha very drunk dudes that swear they didn't drink a drop

10:15:23 cazalla: banned here, unless for extracting essential oils

10:15:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00021789 = 6.4713 BTC [+] {3}

10:15:43 mircea_popescu: romania (at least back in the day) was this place where nothing could be banned.

10:16:03 cazalla: and whenever some dudes die from the methanol they produced, they make a big deal of it in the media to warn of the dangers of diy at home

10:16:13 mircea_popescu: the very notion that the govt would tell you what to do or not do... lol.

10:16:28 mircea_popescu: there's no methanol in this process.

10:16:54 mircea_popescu: actually, distilling fermented fruit can not yield methanol. it's ancient and perfectly safe at that.

10:16:57 BingoBoingo: Clean known moonsine stills here

10:17:03 BingoBoingo: From corn though

10:17:20 cazalla: mircea_popescu, must be making something else then, i have nfi, just hear in the media now and again

10:17:21 mircea_popescu: i think you gotta boil wood before you get crap like that.

10:17:46 cazalla: "Initial reports about the four men's methanol poisoning suggest it occurred when they tried to concoct grappa, a grape-based brandy."

10:18:52 mircea_popescu: pff.

10:18:53 cazalla: prob for the best i don't bottle my own, i'd be in perpetual state of drunkedness

10:19:21 mircea_popescu: they probably tried to "concoct grappa" out of office chairs or something.

10:19:46 mircea_popescu: seeing how one hundred thousand people made their own for decade upon decade without ill effect.

10:19:49 cazalla: well, if one is going to eat plastic food, may as well drink plastic too

10:20:45 mircea_popescu: anywya, if memory serves there's a good 10-20 degrees differential between ethanol and methanol boiling points.

10:21:34 cazalla: anyway, zzz for me

10:21:47 mircea_popescu: even if you start with a 50-50 mixture, keep the still open at ~75 degrees for half an hour, then you can just let it burn and collect the result.

10:22:00 mircea_popescu: nn c man

10:29:17 jurov: heh. my parents themselves started to give me wine.. at 15 or so :D

10:29:35 mircea_popescu: sounds about right.

10:30:19 jurov: <mircea_popescu> actually, distilling fermented fruit can not yield methanol << wait what???

10:30:22 BingoBoingo: My parents unlocked the scotch at 12

10:30:30 mircea_popescu: to which part ?

10:30:48 BingoBoingo: <jurov> <mircea_popescu> actually, distilling fermented fruit can not yield methanol << wait what??? << It totally can

10:30:58 jurov: i have held in my hand plum methanol, wtf if mircea up to

10:31:05 jurov: *is

10:31:24 BingoBoingo: jurov: He has an idealistic image of the old country

10:31:39 mircea_popescu: no dude, it's just fucking rare.

10:31:48 mircea_popescu: in the single digit ppm.

10:33:07 BingoBoingo: I've drank 98+ proof corn whiskey aged right with minimal fusile alcohols. Everyone wants their tradition to be the saint

10:34:17 jurov: http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol apparently it depends

10:34:19 assbot: Home Distillation of Alcohol (Homemade Alcohol to Drink) ... ( http://bit.ly/1EFwqRE )

10:34:35 jurov: "for example apple juice can have 0.2-0.3% methanol, or if derived from pulp by enzymatic degradation, the levels can be 2 to 3 times higher."

10:34:45 mircea_popescu: jurov there's two things : one, what you use and how you ferment it. two, how you distil.

10:35:05 mircea_popescu: but historically, methanol is "wood alcohol". ie, if you try to distil roadkill and old boots, you get a lot of it.

10:35:12 jurov: yes but that's very different from "can not yield"

10:35:15 mircea_popescu: otherwise, properly fermented plums specifically are so and so.

10:35:30 mircea_popescu: well i was talking of the traditional process as used, not of whatever random strange one may try.

10:35:48 mircea_popescu: you know these things get highly traditional / fixated.

10:36:32 mircea_popescu: but in any case : methanol has significant lower boiling point. which, again, means that even if you start with an equal part mixture, if you distil correctly you take it all out.

10:37:02 jurov: yes

10:37:38 mircea_popescu: well so that.

10:42:16 *: BingoBoingo is awfuly sure unregulated corn distillation products self has consumed in the past conatained far below te mandated fusile alcohols of the nao

10:43:11 BingoBoingo: If only fissible alcohols were a thing

10:45:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00021505 = 3.258 BTC [-]

11:06:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20192 @ 0.00021756 = 4.393 BTC [+] {2}

11:32:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4711 @ 0.00022073 = 1.0399 BTC [+]

11:49:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5863 @ 0.00022484 = 1.3182 BTC [+]

11:55:09 mircea_popescu: According to the 2002/2003 census, 143,167 farms had plum trees bearing fruit covering a total area of 554 km². According to the same census, about 75% of the crop ends up as țuică.

11:55:10 mircea_popescu: ha

11:55:30 mircea_popescu: romania, 3rd plum producer, after china and serbia

11:56:03 mircea_popescu: (mostly, damsons)

11:58:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00022792 = 5.8575 BTC [+] {2}

12:01:57 chetty: <mircea_popescu> According to the 2002/2003 census, 143,167 farms had plum trees bearing fruit covering a total area of 554 km². According to the same census, about 75% of the crop ends up as țuică.//only 75%?

12:02:28 mircea_popescu: i think some plums grow feet and run away

12:10:57 danielpbarron: height=296995 vs height=216536

12:28:48 Adlai: so 'eris' is... a database? an application server? does GenDoug support Hybrid-Flex™ blockchains?

12:35:06 danielpbarron: Adlai, it's a block chain with mining restricted by a centrally controlled key

12:35:37 danielpbarron: that is, blocks are only accepted as valid if they meet the difficulty requirement *and* are blessed with the magic key

12:36:09 danielpbarron: and that's supposed to eliminate the need for there being a currency

12:37:45 danielpbarron: to which I ask, why even use a block chain? it's like cloud storage with unneccessary drawbacks

12:42:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00022821 = 3.9709 BTC [+]

12:47:49 Adlai: decentralization theater :P

13:04:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10104 @ 0.00022497 = 2.2731 BTC [-] {2}

13:22:03 jurov: guess they hope to sell mining equipment with the key baked in

13:22:14 jurov: and thus dip both ends

13:29:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18150 @ 0.00022214 = 4.0318 BTC [-]

13:31:22 danielpbarron: !up kyuupichan

13:32:05 kyuupichan: danielpbarron: What do your messages saying "Height H1 vs H2" mean exactly?

13:32:40 danielpbarron: i'm running two pogos, one with a solid state drive, the other with a 5400 rpm drive

13:33:59 danielpbarron: i knew solid state would be faster; just seeing how much faster, and if 5400 rpm drive is a reasonable option

13:38:35 danielpbarron: 22G vs 6.2G

13:39:16 danielpbarron: out of about 40G

13:39:41 danielpbarron: i think it would take about a year for a 5400 rpm drive pogo to sync with the network

14:04:55 danielpbarron: ;;later tell mod6 having some troubles here http://danielpbarron.com/auto-static-v0_0_5-x86_32.txt

14:04:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BLYVuR )

14:04:56 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:06:12 *: mod6 looks

14:06:33 danielpbarron: i haven't caught up on the logs yet, maybe these issues were covered already

14:07:42 mod6: So can you explain what you're builing, what version of auto.sh, what OS, did you change anything? what arch?

14:07:50 mod6: *building

14:08:28 mod6: Did you read this email? http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000071.html << this /should/ work on an x86 arch

14:08:29 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BLZ7do )

14:08:52 mod6: if you tried to build that version of auto.sh on an ARM arch, then i can see why you had issues.

14:08:57 danielpbarron: yes that's what i used

14:09:16 danielpbarron: i tried it first as is

14:09:26 mod6: what os/arch?

14:09:35 danielpbarron: gentoo x86

14:09:44 mod6: hmm

14:10:00 nubbins`: you installed libssl-dev?

14:11:24 nubbins`: danielpbarron ^

14:12:41 danielpbarron: i don't think so

14:12:58 nubbins`: well that's your problem

14:13:03 nubbins`: emerge dat shit

14:13:17 danielpbarron: emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "libssl-dev".

14:13:25 danielpbarron: i didn't need it last time

14:13:34 nubbins`: headers.h:20:28: fatal error: openssl/buffer.h: No such file or directory

14:13:36 nubbins`: hm

14:13:38 danielpbarron: my pogos are currently running a bitcoind that i compiled myself

14:13:43 nubbins`: does emerge tab-complete?

14:13:48 nubbins`: libssl<tab>

14:14:01 danielpbarron: emerge: Maybe you meant any of these: virtual/libudev, dev-libs/libsolv, dev-libs/libsigsegv?

14:14:10 nubbins`: neh

14:14:22 nubbins`: is buffer.h anywhere on your system>?

14:14:35 nubbins`: might be an include path issue

14:15:01 danielpbarron: i thought this is supposed to download a specific version of ssl and use a local copy

14:15:10 danielpbarron: why should i need to install things on my system?

14:15:40 nubbins`: pastebin your ./auto.sh

14:15:53 nubbins`: and your bitcoin/src/makefile.unix

14:16:16 nubbins`: heck, skip pastebin and danielpbarron.com them

14:17:36 nubbins`: openssl is the first dep that should get downloaded and compiled, so if it's halting there it's probably a path issue

14:18:07 mod6: i've never used gentoo before, but if this still a problem/not-resolved by the end of the day, I'll try to setup a new droplet and test the auto.sh changes there.

14:18:53 nubbins`: danielpbarron here's a snippet from the last chunk of text you shared

14:18:54 nubbins`: -I/home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.5th/ourlibs/include -I/home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.5th/ourlibs/include -I/home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.5th/ourlibs/include

14:19:02 nubbins`: that's trying to include the same dir three times

14:19:17 nubbins`: which might indicate that it's failing to parse something after /include

14:19:51 danielpbarron: that attempt was using the arm toolchain

14:19:57 nubbins`: i had to modify makefile for osx because all the path stuff wasn't resolving, your gentoo might have similar prob

14:20:24 nubbins`: actually all three of your attempts show the same thing

14:20:36 nubbins`: (might be totally not the issue but worth examining)

14:23:19 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

14:23:20 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.34, Best ask: 246.48, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 246.46, 24 hour volume: 71535.64113155, 24 hour low: 235.7, 24 hour high: 252.94, 24 hour vwap: None

14:25:46 danielpbarron: refresh http://danielpbarron.com/auto-static-v0_0_5-x86_32.txt

14:25:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BLYVuR )

14:30:05 PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061881 << my brother is ~6 ft tall, but usually slouches so he looks about 5'7

14:30:05 assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 04:52:20; mircea_popescu: but to belabour the point : one of the principal reasons "measuring iq" as it were height is so ridiculous, is because nobody has yet had an off day for height.

14:30:57 nubbins`: danielpbarron sweet, how about makefile.unix from 5th

14:31:22 PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-03-2015#1061802 << I would say most of food is pretty well described by chemistry already

14:31:22 assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 04:30:25; mircea_popescu: at any rate : expecting human behaviour to be addressed by genetics is a little like expecting food to be discussed by chemistry.

14:32:26 PeterL: and yes, there are chemists who specialize in food chemistry

14:32:45 nubbins`: there were behaviourists who specialized in genetics 8)

14:33:42 PeterL: but are there geneticists that specialize in behaviour?

14:34:38 nubbins`: prolly not since ww2

14:39:51 Adlai: there's a gene for smoking all the way down to the filter

14:40:09 Adlai: which is derpspeak for statistical correlation between certain genotypes, and that phenotype

14:42:55 nubbins`: 8)

14:51:42 danielpbarron: nubbins`, http://danielpbarron.com/makefile.unix.txt

14:51:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BM1Mnq )

14:52:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14275 @ 0.00022539 = 3.2174 BTC [+] {2}

14:52:00 mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> to which I ask, why even use a block chain? it's like cloud storage with unneccessary drawbacks << this pretty much

14:53:06 mircea_popescu: <jurov> guess they hope to sell mining equipment with the key baked in << wouldn't this necessarily leak it ?

14:53:46 jurov: no rake is forever

14:55:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00022567 = 6.1721 BTC [+]

14:55:04 nubbins`: danielpbarron: add these two lines to your auto.sh, right below "export LDFLAGS=" at the bottom

14:55:08 nubbins`: echo $OURLIBS

14:55:10 mircea_popescu: <PeterL> I would say most of food is pretty well described by chemistry already << you have no idea.

14:55:15 nubbins`: echo $OPENSSL_LIB_PATH

14:55:20 nubbins`: then run ./auto.sh again

14:55:52 PeterL: you think there is some mysterious undescribed part of food?

14:55:56 nubbins`: actually maybe preface with: echo "looky loo"

14:56:01 nubbins`: or other marker

14:56:01 mircea_popescu: pretty much the only thing chemistry describes about food is that it has no hope in hell of describing it, and here's some alternatives that 90% of people can't distinguish

14:56:44 *: nubbins` points out that "artificial flavor" and "natural flavor" can be chemically the same molecule, but must be labelled according to origin

14:56:53 mircea_popescu: PeterL didn't we have the discussion with the complexity of aminoacids ?

14:57:17 mircea_popescu: nubbins` this "chemically the same molecule" ... i can distinguish peppers and capsein.

14:57:23 mircea_popescu: now go make me a pickled cucumber.

14:57:32 nubbins`: i can distinguish marijuana and pure thc 8)

14:57:34 PeterL: what about them? chemists can say what they are, but might not be able to recreate them in the lab

14:57:45 mircea_popescu: PeterL they can't usefully say what they are, even.

14:58:03 mircea_popescu: human taste is sensitive to ppb in some lines. smell easily to ppm.

14:58:06 nubbins`: protip: the smell of nice marijuana is precisely the smell of thc

14:58:36 mircea_popescu: nubbins` sure, soime cases are more advantageous than others. now go distinguish a glass of wine from another glass of wine, chemically.

14:58:56 mircea_popescu: your competent oenologist can usually spot the year and most of the time the vineyard. not the region mind. the vineyard.

14:58:58 nubbins`: too many compounds bru!

14:59:01 mircea_popescu: oic.

14:59:05 mircea_popescu: i thought it was described.

14:59:07 PeterL: sure, you can identify the differing concentrations of various chemicals

14:59:10 nubbins`: oh, no doubt

14:59:21 nubbins`: everyone's seen a sommelier identify the vineyard by taste

14:59:27 mircea_popescu: PeterL no, you can't actually, because a glass is not enough sample.

14:59:28 nubbins`: only way to earn your level 3

14:59:49 nubbins`: now take a glass of house red and a glass of $5000/bottle red and ask the guy to do a blind taste test.

15:00:24 *: nubbins` has admittedly never drunk wine costlier than $500/bottle but can verify that all the superfluous descriptors on the label are actually present

15:00:32 jurov: http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/assault-charge-woman-squirts-breast-milk-at-cop-refused-bail/story-fnhocxo3-1227278350251

15:00:34 assbot: | Perth Now ... ( http://bit.ly/1BM2j98 )

15:00:34 nubbins`: "it DOES taste like oiled leather and rustic tobacco"

15:00:36 mircea_popescu: if you had a cistern to run through, and a few years and an infinity of budgets, you maybe could get something sorta usable some of the time. which is about wheree it is.

15:00:40 jurov: jus' squirt it

15:00:45 mircea_popescu: jurov you know that sounds so very gypsy...

15:01:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00022567 = 3.8364 BTC [+]

15:02:32 mircea_popescu: at any rate : most actual foodstuffs, such as pickles, cheeses, cured and aged meats etc aren't even flora-enumerated, in the sense that we don't even really know what all grows on them

15:02:51 mircea_popescu: it's "broadly this" and "mostly that" all the way.

15:03:30 PeterL: aren't pickles just cucumbers soaked in vinegar?

15:03:34 mircea_popescu: no, they are not.

15:03:45 mircea_popescu: pickes are cucumbers fermented in a saline solution in the dark and cool.

15:03:57 mircea_popescu: the vinegar thing is an industrial product and at best cattle feed.

15:05:27 nubbins`: brining and fermenting is an art

15:05:32 *: nubbins` has been dabbling

15:05:40 mircea_popescu: not that i'm contesting the importance and corectness of whatever, maillard, what have you. but nobody who looked at the matter seriously is claiming the problem to be even described

15:05:42 mircea_popescu: let alone solved.

15:05:49 nubbins`: this kimchi i'm working through could strip paint

15:06:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8725 @ 0.00022038 = 1.9228 BTC [-] {2}

15:06:18 nubbins`: but yeah, mp has it. you can take a stab at the /types/ of organisms or compounds therein

15:06:23 nubbins`: but that's about as close as it gets

15:06:31 nubbins`: like, i know my kimchi has lactobacillus strains

15:06:34 nubbins`: which ones? shrug

15:06:46 mircea_popescu: moreover, the variety of bacteria is actually staggering.

15:06:47 nubbins`: ostensibly different ones than are in my sourdough.

15:06:48 PeterL: but chemists have a general knowledge of what goes into good food, unlike geneticists who have very little idea what goes into intelligence

15:07:04 mircea_popescu: PeterL but geneticists have am uch better idea of what goes into phenotypes.

15:07:08 mircea_popescu: uhhh... guanine

15:07:14 mircea_popescu: and... ahem.... ti something

15:07:18 mircea_popescu: there, they're ahead already.

15:07:25 nubbins`: heh

15:07:25 mircea_popescu: guanine and ti something, almost 1/3 of the job

15:08:04 nubbins`: incidentally, coffee is up there with wine as far as variety of chemical compunds goes

15:08:19 nubbins`: coffee plantation was the first time i ever saw (and smelled) a smell sample kit

15:08:23 mircea_popescu: so it is. and the yak milk thing the mongols drink

15:08:25 mircea_popescu: and on it goes.

15:08:29 nubbins`: 10/10 would like to own one

15:08:58 *: nubbins` prefers wet-processed coffees, which means -- you guessed it -- fermentation

15:09:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00021505 = 2.2688 BTC [-]

15:09:40 nubbins`: sometimes i feel like i've changed my gut flora enough that it's modified my brain chemistry to strongly desire stinky, fermented things

15:10:18 nubbins`: other side of the coin is that i've stopped indulging in mcdonald's and plastic food for long enough that the natural desire to eat /living food/ has come back

15:10:23 nubbins`: take yr pick

15:13:15 danielpbarron: nubbins`, refresh http://danielpbarron.com/auto-static-v0_0_5-x86_32.txt

15:13:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BLYVuR )

15:15:22 danielpbarron: i thought it might have been because i was still using my own script to patch 0.5.3, but the pre-patched i tried also failed (that was the omitted 6th attempt

15:15:56 *: jurov imagined a dystopic flick featuring people with GMO gut flora living off all kinds of waste

15:17:16 jurov: i suspect such uncanny adaptations will be necessary for space, too

15:17:22 PeterL: I have entertained the idea of trying to implant gut flora from herbivores to allow us to live off grass, could be fun, no?

15:18:17 jurov: what fun? chewing all day?

15:18:37 PeterL: I've also wondered what would happen if we implanted chloroplasts in our skin, just live off sunlight?

15:18:40 nubbins`: danielpbarron so $OURLIBS resolves to /home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.7th/ourlibs

15:18:52 nubbins`: $OPENSSL_LIB_PATH resolves to /home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.7th/ourlibs/lib

15:19:03 nubbins`: ^ not sure that's drilled down deep enough

15:19:30 nubbins`: no, wait, that's fine

15:20:54 jurov: hardly chloroplasts. more likely figure out symbiosis with some sort of algae.. and i suspect it would not cover even significant part of metabolism

15:21:48 jurov: mostly worthwhile to synthesize vitamins and the like

15:21:56 nubbins`: danielpbarron your 7th halts at a different step, hey?

15:22:07 nubbins`: db_cxx.h vs buffer.h

15:23:49 mircea_popescu: jurov not a bad premise.

15:24:09 mircea_popescu: eh, you'd need to implant four stomachs too, peterl.

15:24:48 mircea_popescu: <PeterL> I've also wondered what would happen if we implanted chloroplasts in our skin, just live off sunlight? << toxic epidermal necrolysis much more likely./

15:28:20 nubbins`: hmm

15:28:22 nubbins`: danielpbarron

15:28:26 nubbins`: http://danielpbarron.com/auto-static-v0_0_5-x86_32.txt

15:28:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1COYw0j )

15:28:42 nubbins`: bottom chunk: see 2nd line in paste

15:28:54 nubbins`: ...failed updating 163 targets...

15:28:59 nubbins`: i think your problem might start a bit earlier?

15:29:08 chetty: <mircea_popescu> <PeterL> I've also wondered what would happen if we implanted chloroplasts in our skin, just live off sunlight? << toxic epidermal necrolysis much more likely./// and poor vampires

15:31:01 nubbins`: danielpbarron compare to first paste, failed updating 1 target

15:39:49 mod6: danielpbarron: headers.h:26:20: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory << did bdb get built ok?

15:41:44 mod6: you may want to do like one at a time: Comment out 77-95 (for BDB) & 97-119 (for Boost) and just see if you get a clean build from OpenSSL. Then if so, comment out 58-75 (openssl) and uncomment 77-95 for BDB and just run that... etc etc.

15:42:01 mod6: make sense?

15:42:03 jurov: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file << that's known issue on gentoo, you have to add -I <bdb path>

15:42:14 mod6: oh

15:42:16 danielpbarron: yeah, i think i remember doing that the last time i went through all this

15:42:30 danielpbarron: err.. what mod6 said, not what jurov said

15:42:36 mircea_popescu: vegetampires

15:42:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00021536 = 5.3625 BTC [+]

15:43:39 asciilifeform: chloroplasts << surface/volume ratio. fails, even if worked.

15:43:48 mircea_popescu: gmornin alf

15:43:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9875 @ 0.00021873 = 2.16 BTC [+] {2}

15:44:19 *: asciilifeform caught up with logs, off to meatspace for a spell

15:45:02 mircea_popescu: i'm so fucking excited about this eulora release...

15:50:34 jurov: okay, but be sure to implement faster deposits :>

15:51:57 nubbins`: mircea_popescu hey who knows, maybe there'll be an osx build some time this summer

15:52:14 mircea_popescu: nubbins` cool, that way you can play too :D

15:52:31 nubbins`: instead of just mousing around the login screen with no kbd input :D

15:52:46 mircea_popescu: :D

15:54:06 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umeS2PWcRU0 << this guy.

15:54:08 assbot: Manole Stroici - Și pe tine or să te doară... - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CP3nOP )

15:54:39 mircea_popescu: moldavian count. famous pop singer of the 20s. after which, took up clay pigeon shooting, and became world champion 4ever.

15:56:37 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069675 << ---[ end Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)

15:56:37 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:13:16; asciilifeform: (it croaks, having no meaningful rootfs, but that's for tomorrow)

15:57:19 danielpbarron: on a related note, i'd like more specific info on how to make my own u-boot

15:57:37 danielpbarron: i'm not sure what asciilifeform recommends for this

15:58:24 danielpbarron: my adulterated pogo behaves strangly, sometimes it uses stock u-boot and sometimes it uses some thing i flashed to it, and i'm not sure why it changes

15:58:49 nubbins`: let me find you a link

15:59:04 nubbins`: http://blog.qnology.com/2014/07/hacking-pogoplug-v4-series-4-and-mobile.html

15:59:06 assbot: Qui's techNOLOGY Blog: Hacking the Pogoplug v4 (Series 4 and Mobile) with Linux (Debian or Arch) ... ( http://bit.ly/1zZyYqB )

15:59:32 nubbins`: that covers flashing nand with u-boot

15:59:38 nubbins`: not quite roll-your-own, but...

15:59:39 danielpbarron: yeah no, i mean how to make my own u-boot

15:59:47 danielpbarron: that's the one i'm probably using already

16:01:11 nubbins`: http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?3,12381

16:01:13 assbot: 2014.07 U-Boot for FDT and Non-FDT Kernel - GoFlexNet, GoFlexHome, PogoE02, Dockstar, iConnect, NetgearStora, PogoV4/Mobile, Sheevaplug, NSA325, NSA320 ... ( http://bit.ly/1CP4myD )

16:01:15 nubbins`: see "references" section

16:01:25 danielpbarron: ...failed updating 1 target... << this happens when i use the prepatched, the looky loo outputs correct paths

16:01:32 nubbins`: in http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?3,14697

16:01:34 assbot: Kirkwood U-boot - Getting all supported Kirkwoods on-board ... ( http://bit.ly/1CP4nT7 )

16:02:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00022567 = 1.354 BTC [+]

16:02:09 nubbins`: danielpbarron at the risk of being silly, does db_cxx.h exist in /home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.7th/ourlibs/include

16:03:39 danielpbarron: no

16:04:15 nubbins`: okay, so that's why that step can't find it :D

16:04:28 danielpbarron: i see boost and openssl

16:04:34 nubbins`: working backwards, next step is to modify auto.sh

16:04:36 danielpbarron: i guess that means db isn't finishing

16:05:19 nubbins`: comment out everything in auto.sh but the chunk where it builds bdb

16:05:26 nubbins`: then run it, see what errors it throws

16:05:36 danielpbarron: oh weird, it does exist in there when i try with the prepatched

16:06:52 danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/auto-static-v0_0_5-x86_32.txt << refresh

16:06:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CP5hit )

16:07:17 danielpbarron: this is output when i use the release and the patched for 32 auto.sh

16:08:39 nubbins`: still failed 1 target above

16:08:41 nubbins`: try this: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Ph1KJm0W

16:08:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CP5uSK )

16:08:46 danielpbarron: ok wow

16:08:48 nubbins`: save that as autobdb.sh

16:08:55 nubbins`: chmod 0755 autobdb.sh

16:08:58 nubbins`: ./autobdb.sh

16:09:00 danielpbarron: i think my laptop has a 64 bit cpu

16:09:07 nubbins`: how much ram?

16:10:15 danielpbarron: 3 gigs + 2 gigs swap

16:10:25 nubbins`: haha actually sorry, the pastebin i linked above has 1 error

16:10:35 nubbins`: s/osx/unix/ in line 6

16:10:41 danielpbarron: so i'm the dummy that didn't realize he had a 64 bit cpu and put 32 bit OS on it

16:10:41 nubbins`: try that and paste the result

16:11:11 nubbins`: fwiw if you've got 3gb ram i guess it doesn't really matter

16:13:23 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron don't worry, you also put 64 bit on the 32 bit arm.

16:13:48 nubbins`: heh

16:13:56 mircea_popescu: (also, 32 bit os should work on 64 bit hardware, compatibility mode)

16:14:11 nubbins`: i have no arms, and i must flail

16:14:17 mircea_popescu: !b 5

16:14:18 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1ZQY1ZC.txt )

16:14:36 mircea_popescu: !b 8

16:14:36 assbot: Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2ACFJRA.txt )

16:14:37 mircea_popescu: whatevs.

16:14:43 danielpbarron: dpb@iscah ~/bitcoin/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 $ ./autobdb.sh

16:14:44 danielpbarron: Found 'db-4.8.30', skipping...

16:15:06 nubbins`: o.O

16:15:39 ben_vulpes: you'll see that if you run ./auto.sh more than once, non?

16:15:44 nubbins`: comment out if/else/fi

16:15:45 danielpbarron: this is a different one than the one that didn't have the db_cxx.h

16:16:04 danielpbarron: oh, should i run it from scratch?

16:16:16 danielpbarron: (which is what i have been doing up until this point)

16:16:20 nubbins`: naw

16:16:36 nubbins`: it does make clean

16:17:03 nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> this is a different one than the one that didn't have the db_cxx.h <<< ah

16:17:17 nubbins`: maybe you should start from scratch just so we can stay focused

16:18:12 nubbins`: it'll be a bit of a pain, but if you can comment out your auto.sh so that it only builds one component

16:18:17 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i've done the same thing tho. i only had access to 32bit windows for my gaming rig, and i have to wipe the entire thing to install a 64bit version.

16:18:19 nubbins`: then comment out that one, uncomment the next, etc

16:18:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11552 @ 0.00022637 = 2.615 BTC [+] {2}

16:18:31 nubbins`: it'll be easier to spot which builds fail

16:18:56 danielpbarron: it seems to find all three of openss, boosts, and db

16:19:05 danielpbarron: or um, yeah lemme do from scratch

16:19:13 nubbins`: yeah, find is one thing, build properly is another

16:19:22 thestringpuller: so we are building axes and swords today? :D

16:19:51 ben_vulpes: maces and bludgeons

16:20:36 nubbins`: just wetting the stones

16:21:02 ben_vulpes: heh yeah

16:21:19 ben_vulpes: swinging sticks at each other in the muddy courtyard

16:22:11 nubbins`: hey, the best swordsmaster who ever lived was bested by a farmer with a quarterstaff

16:22:37 nubbins`: ^ rabbit hole if anyone's into reading dead trees

16:22:46 mircea_popescu: ca multi lorzi de vita veche din indepartatul nord...

16:22:54 mircea_popescu: lordul john e-ntr-o ureche...

16:24:27 nubbins`: there's no beef in the north

16:24:38 nubbins`: just polar bear

16:24:41 mircea_popescu: vit,a aka lineage, kin

16:25:26 danielpbarron: on the openssl part, it ends with this: Makefile:640: recipe for target 'install_docs' failed

16:26:10 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge0WaPvECPw << there, sung.

16:26:11 assbot: Pasarea Colibri - Lordul John - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BqRAAT )

16:26:12 nubbins`: while docs generally aren't crucial, i wonder if that stops some later process from happening

16:26:55 danielpbarron: oh also, should i be using the patched for 32 auto.sh if my cpu is 64 but my OS is 32 ?

16:27:12 nubbins`: match the os

16:27:27 mircea_popescu: actually... maybe try 16 bit something ?

16:27:31 mircea_popescu: protected mode ?

16:27:32 nubbins`: if you try running a 64bit program on a 32bit os, you're gonna be sad

16:27:40 mircea_popescu: they don't run

16:27:44 nubbins`: ^ :D

16:28:06 mircea_popescu: inb4 danielpbarron accidentally builds ai

16:28:08 danielpbarron: in my "ourlibs" directory, it looks like there are only doc files

16:28:13 nubbins`: "y u no valid memory address"

16:28:14 danielpbarron: so i think it isn't finishing

16:28:36 nubbins`: ourlibs is where things get put as they're compiled

16:29:32 nubbins`: if you're only doing the first step, ourlibs won't be fully populated

16:30:14 nubbins`: does ourlibs/include exist?

16:30:50 danielpbarron: no

16:31:15 danielpbarron: only ourlibs/ssl/man

16:32:45 danielpbarron: looks like db built fine

16:32:56 nubbins`: here's the Makefile from openssl

16:32:58 nubbins`: install: all install_docs install_sw

16:33:44 nubbins`: you could remove install_docs from that line if you wanted

16:34:22 nubbins`: might be easier than figuring out why the docs won't install

16:37:38 nubbins`: failure of install_docs might preclude attempt at install_sw

16:37:47 nubbins`: (who in the fuck installs the docs /first/?)

16:38:08 nubbins`: bbl

16:56:29 mircea_popescu: nubbins` installs the dix first!

16:58:16 mircea_popescu: fun fact : zog Ist was king of...

16:58:18 mircea_popescu: albania.

17:13:12 punkman: http://blog.samaltman.com/bubble-talk "This bet is open to the first VC who would like to take it . The loser donates $100,000 to a charity of the winner’s choice." meh

17:13:13 assbot: Bubble talk - Sam Altman ... ( http://bit.ly/1BnuE6y )

17:18:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.0002306 = 4.7619 BTC [+] {3}

17:35:00 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:35:46 ascii_field: danielpbarron: i'd like more specific info on how to make my own u-boot << i have a u-boot built from official source. the buildroot thing -also- builds a u-boot, as a matter of course, but i have not yet tested that one

17:37:53 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: no, nodes don't get updated << so, let's go into this in detail. they ship with all the seed ips they will ever have? for the record i proclaim this to be retarded. -keys- are the constants of our world, not ip addrs

17:39:09 ascii_field: i utterly understand the desire to 'tivoize' these things so they don't get turned into phoundation nodes by lamers. but this can be done without idiot waste.

17:39:36 ascii_field: once the twentybux boxes run out (and i expect that it will happen sooner rather than later) prepare to pay six times more for each node.

17:39:48 ascii_field: right now some bezzlatronic idiot is paying the difference

17:40:14 ascii_field: (the vendor is selling a loss-leader, hoping to attract chumps to its 5/mo. 'cloud' crapolade)

17:41:03 nubbins`: i think a lot of it is genuinely overstock too

17:41:06 ascii_field: likewise physical delivery is expensive. (witness kakobrekla's attempt to buy so much as one pogo and still have it 'feel disposable')

17:41:09 ascii_field: nubbins`: this also.

17:41:22 nubbins`: physical delivery, for me, bottoms out at ~$10usd

17:41:27 nubbins`: whether i buy 3 or 50

17:41:42 ascii_field: so, what, we're expecting operators to throw out perfectly good boxes to add a fucking seed node!?!

17:42:16 ascii_field: turning an ip address into a critical constant in a field-deployed machine paints a big fat target on that ip for usg

17:42:34 ascii_field: one of the few things usg is reliably good at is making a particular ip unusable

17:42:42 ascii_field: or emplacing own turd there

17:42:47 nubbins`: my ip address will be fine to use as a seed node, but it /may occasionally change/

17:42:55 ascii_field: nubbins`: there you go

17:43:00 ascii_field: hardcoded seeds - idiocy

17:43:01 nubbins`: and is thus useless for inclusion in a baked-in

17:43:04 ascii_field: there is no other side to this

17:43:26 nubbins`: now, i can gpg-sign my ip address and publish it somewhere when it changes

17:43:35 nubbins`: in fact, i can almost certainly have this process be automatic

17:43:41 ascii_field: nubbins`: this means gpg on the nodes

17:43:44 ascii_field: and updatatron

17:43:58 ascii_field: and mircea_popescu will say 'bah, unreliable, you're driving up engineering cost 1000 times'

17:44:08 nubbins`: gpg and curl, at the very least

17:44:15 ascii_field: i suggested this, yes

17:44:20 ascii_field: well, not curl

17:44:20 nubbins`: where's the seed list now, in a fucking .c file or something?

17:44:25 nubbins`: w/e it may be

17:44:27 ascii_field: can't rely on anything on the net staying put

17:44:37 ascii_field: SIGNED update would have to be on attached storage

17:44:46 ascii_field: plug in a card, if passes sig - used

17:45:09 nubbins`: updated seed list on sd card?

17:45:19 mthreat: back in sudamerica

17:45:24 nubbins`: the list'll be stale by the time someone gets a box

17:45:26 mthreat: after the land of chipotle

17:45:27 ascii_field: nubbins`: updated whatever

17:45:49 ascii_field: seeds, bitcoind image, hell, whole rom

17:45:52 ascii_field: but -signed-

17:45:54 nubbins`: nod

17:46:15 ascii_field: and button must be held.

17:46:21 ascii_field: no automagic-anything.

17:46:26 nubbins`: there's gotta be a sane way to do this over the wire

17:46:27 ascii_field: user must consciously insist on update

17:46:46 ascii_field: nubbins`: silent wire updates are ipso facto insane

17:46:49 nubbins`: altho otw explicitly means you're not examining anything

17:46:53 nubbins`: "aha" 8)

17:47:11 ascii_field: user is free to examine the (signed) update on his own time

17:47:14 ascii_field: before firing it

17:47:18 ascii_field: (or not)

17:47:37 nubbins`: so this is all agreed, anything that can be modified should be signed

17:47:37 ascii_field: not proposing anything idiotic, e.g., it being ciphered in some way

17:47:41 nubbins`: this brings us back to the seeds

17:47:57 ascii_field: nubbins`: i am trying to knock some sense into the folks taking the 'no updates, throw'em out every time' folks

17:48:05 ascii_field: (who don't appear to be logged in at present, but, still)

17:49:17 nubbins`: hm

17:49:56 ascii_field: e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069917

17:49:56 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 05:08:35; mircea_popescu: serviceable 19 dollar units ? gtfo.

17:50:16 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069927

17:50:16 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 05:10:32; mircea_popescu: forget it, you want to upgrade get a new unit.

17:50:47 nubbins`: this is all fine and well

17:50:55 nubbins`: until you hardcode a thousand seed ips

17:51:02 nubbins`: and a week later they're all dead in the water

17:51:05 ascii_field: aha.

17:51:14 ascii_field: this is where the enemy excels

17:51:15 nubbins`: and there's you with half a blockchain

17:51:45 ascii_field: except they won't be dead, they'll be hosting phoundation syblics

17:51:48 ascii_field: *sybils

17:52:21 nubbins`: ha, there you go

17:52:44 ascii_field: and i disagree with mircea_popescu's hypothesis that 'enemy is stupid'. he is not stupid. he is being slow, so as to show off his sprezzatura.

17:52:56 nubbins`: this is getting dangerously closer to bringing the whole seed thing back to first principles, you know

17:53:18 ascii_field: give or take a few months, enemy starts to bark up the vaguely-correct tree.

17:54:03 nubbins`: hm

17:54:13 ascii_field: nubbins`: ultimately the first principle is that pubkeys are the only valid locators for anything purporting to be human

17:54:35 ben_vulpes: i'm reading, asciilifeform

17:55:04 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: aha, there you are.

17:55:10 ben_vulpes: you'll note, not arguing.

17:55:17 ascii_field: good, ben_vulpes is thinking

17:55:35 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: don't hurry, think.

17:55:35 ben_vulpes: it seems you object to 2 things

17:55:49 ben_vulpes: i may be wrong and stupid, but i'm willing to be corrected and learn

17:55:56 ben_vulpes: 1) hardcoding of seeds by enemy

17:56:04 ben_vulpes: 2) using enemy's keys

17:56:12 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: wai wat?!!

17:56:20 ascii_field: i was objecting to hardcoding of seeds -by us-

17:56:23 ben_vulpes: aha

17:56:44 nubbins`: what sort of handshake happens when you find a live ip in the seed list

17:56:56 ascii_field: warning that if we bake machines with unchangeable ip constants, this paints a fat blinking target on them

17:56:59 ascii_field: for usg

17:57:31 ascii_field: the only valid constant is keys.

17:57:49 nubbins`: you can't locate someone with a key

17:57:56 ben_vulpes: so if i might be forgiven for conflating things, should not any subset of the wot graph be able to use their own keys?

17:58:08 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: use their own keys for what ?

17:58:20 ben_vulpes: signing updates to seed list.

17:58:50 ascii_field: this is where you gotta make the call re: how much centralization you want.

17:59:13 ben_vulpes: if we're to entertain updating, operators *must* be able to update without foundation keys.

17:59:13 ascii_field: and where mircea_popescu wakes up and says 'now the machine is 1000x more complex, needs to know what wot is'

17:59:34 ben_vulpes: alternatively, with arbitrary keys.

17:59:42 ascii_field: meaning no key at all ?

17:59:59 nubbins`: suppose you get a box and then start suspecting we've been turned.

17:59:59 ben_vulpes: perhaps must be supplied with keys on initial flash

17:59:59 ascii_field: to tivo or not to tivo, that is the question

18:00:17 nubbins`: now you're stuck with a box with OUR keys being the arbiter

18:00:21 ascii_field: why would someone buy a box from therealbitcoin when he suspects we've been turned ?

18:00:29 nubbins`: s/when/before/

18:00:41 ascii_field: i'm fine with him having to buy a new box -then-

18:00:42 ben_vulpes: i thought boxes were user-flashed!

18:00:46 nubbins`: aha!

18:00:47 nubbins`: :D

18:00:58 nubbins`: let him buy a banana cream pi or w/e

18:01:12 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: user-flashed possibly, from vendor state, but not into a configuration that is reflashable in the same idiot (remote exploit) way

18:03:02 nubbins`: fuck it, get it to scan a random /16 for .foundation nodes on first boot

18:03:11 nubbins`: sure, it'll take a couple days humming before it starts getting blocks

18:03:14 nubbins`: BUT W/E

18:03:22 nubbins`: ;p

18:03:36 ben_vulpes: lol y not

18:04:01 ascii_field: scan a random /16 for .foundation nodes << wai wat

18:04:11 ascii_field: how do you propose to distinguish friend/foe ?

18:04:25 ben_vulpes: there is no friend/foe

18:04:27 ascii_field: we have no mechanism for this

18:04:30 ben_vulpes: there are just nodes on the network

18:04:35 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: he use the phrase '.foundation nodes'

18:04:46 ascii_field: implies that these can be told apart from others

18:04:50 ascii_field: by machine

18:04:58 ben_vulpes: and it'll remain that way until the block download thing is fixed to a) track node quality and b) spot-check blocks provided by high quality peers

18:05:10 nubbins`: you can't have visible to users but invisible to usg

18:05:13 nubbins`: just can't

18:05:14 nubbins`: !up ascii_field

18:05:15 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:05:44 nubbins`: anyway, consider the statement suitably modified

18:06:01 ascii_field: ultimately the only proper box is one where the only magical constant is an rsa key, and same key is also prominently burned into the chassis

18:06:13 nubbins`: i'm sure we all have at least a reasonably narrow range of IPs that'll be assigned to our nodes, even if they're dynamic

18:06:20 ascii_field: nubbins`: i don't

18:06:31 nubbins`: o!

18:06:38 ascii_field: this is a very bad assumption

18:07:12 ascii_field: my isp is a mega-conglomerate which owns and uses multiple slash-eights

18:07:26 ben_vulpes: and shouldn't this discussion be looking at ipv6 as well?

18:07:41 nubbins`: lel, total country bumpkins here re: ip blocks obv 8)

18:07:41 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i recommend strongly against ipv6 in this machine

18:07:54 ascii_field: multiple known bugs revolving around mostly untested ipv6 crud

18:08:05 *: ben_vulpes is a total country bumpkin re: anything combudder

18:08:06 ascii_field: i recall at least one that concerns marvell in particular

18:08:27 ascii_field: i don't even have ipv6 enabled on my lan, much less outgoing.

18:08:53 ascii_field: even if nothing else, complicates reading packet dumps

18:08:59 ascii_field: which any reasonable person does regularly

18:09:03 ascii_field: to see what lives in his home

18:09:24 ascii_field: at the risk of pissing off many, i will still say, screw ipv6

18:10:45 nubbins`: hm

18:10:51 nubbins`: just thinking out loud here

18:10:57 ascii_field: i ban ipv6 in my home.

18:12:35 nubbins`: hardcode DNS servers and fill the seed list w/ hostnames instead of ips

18:12:44 ascii_field: 100% usg

18:12:52 ascii_field: usg has real time iron control over all of dns.

18:12:56 ascii_field: to a first approximation.

18:13:11 ascii_field: this is right back to phoundation's idiocies.

18:13:14 nubbins`: well i'm not running a namecoin node

18:13:24 ascii_field: nubbins`: don't need to (and same problems apply to it)

18:14:27 ascii_field: the only way to cut usg-controlled apparatus entirely out of the loop is to have the node get all volatiles (e.g., ip addrs) from files, on inserable media, -signed- by burned-in and prominently-advertised key.

18:15:00 nubbins`: how many ips (or live ips, if you prefer) in current seed list?

18:15:04 nubbins`: i think this is on the ml somewhere..

18:15:09 ascii_field: yeah i posted it.

18:15:29 ascii_field: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000043.html

18:15:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cb2bDD )

18:15:37 ascii_field: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000044.html

18:15:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cb2bU9 )

18:15:43 ascii_field: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000046.html

18:15:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoqAY2 )

18:15:53 ascii_field: ^ that was all i think

18:16:25 nubbins`: *six*?

18:16:54 mod6: you rang?

18:16:57 nubbins`: heh.

18:17:23 jurov: if seedlist is to be signed, then it can download it automatically, no?

18:17:24 nubbins`: so according to this, six live seeds would ostensibly be enough to bootstrap with

18:17:32 ascii_field: until they're shot

18:17:37 nubbins`: right.

18:17:46 nubbins`: then those six are useless

18:17:49 ascii_field: the only reason they are alive (and are they? i checked a good while ago) is that no one cared.

18:18:04 nubbins`: in the meantime, we've been using a different six since we sent out the first X units

18:18:24 nubbins`: cat-and-mouse

18:18:30 nubbins`: brb

18:19:12 ascii_field: there will be considerably less cat'n'mouse if enemy -knows- that there can be no effect from chewing on the mice

18:19:24 ascii_field: and the only way this could be so is if there are no magic hardcoded ips.

18:19:33 ascii_field: you can't ddos an rsa key

18:19:50 ascii_field: or have it administratively forced to rout to ft meade

18:19:57 ascii_field: *route

18:26:12 *: ben_vulpes thinks more

18:32:04 jurov: !mpif

18:32:05 assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021375 B (Total: 467.44 B). Delta: 0.31 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]

18:32:11 jurov: !t m f.mpif

18:32:12 assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC)

18:38:06 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

18:48:21 nubbins`: ascii_field so what's the path from rsa key -> seed node

18:48:30 ascii_field: nubbins`: i proposed a very simple one

18:48:33 nubbins`: maybe i'm being obtuse :S

18:49:04 ascii_field: nubbins`: node ships with no seeds. even without bitcoind binary. user inserts a storage unit on which he has placed a therealbitcoin-signed tarball. this gets eaten up.

18:49:08 ascii_field: repeat as necessary.

18:49:24 ascii_field: (and user presses button, yes)

18:49:35 nubbins`: a a a.

18:49:40 nubbins`: i gotcha

18:49:56 ben_vulpes: seeds included in tarball?

18:50:06 nubbins`: heh.

18:52:31 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: aha

18:52:47 nubbins`: any seed list made public by any means is a target

18:53:06 nubbins`: us cloaked ones forget about ddos lurkers in here

18:53:14 ascii_field: nubbins`: yes. but -how attractive- a target, will depend on how much damage can be done to our cause by shooting at it

18:53:23 ascii_field: hence the sheer lunacy of unchangeable ips anywhere

18:54:14 nubbins`: at this rate you're gonna have to get in the wot before someone tells you a seed ip

18:54:24 *: nubbins` blinks twice

18:54:49 ascii_field: nubbins`: bitcoin doesn't run on secret ips

18:54:57 ascii_field: that's a road to lameness

18:55:16 ascii_field: but there is a reasonably sane solution that doesn't involve secrecy

18:55:31 ascii_field: but simply 'we can move these at zero cost to us and ours if we want to, so don't bother shooting at them'

18:57:52 *: nubbins` gestures appropriately

18:58:54 nubbins`: foundation could publish a list of trusted seeds each month w/ state of the union

18:58:59 nubbins`: i don't know

18:59:06 ascii_field: why not.

18:59:10 nubbins`: also woot, 2x raspi & 2x pogo just showed up

18:59:29 nubbins`: seed list is in a source file?

18:59:41 nubbins`: or txt

18:59:46 ascii_field: txt

18:59:53 nubbins`: beaut

18:59:59 nubbins`: monthly seed list updates

19:00:03 nubbins`: separate tarball

19:00:29 nubbins`: unit comes w/ instructions for use, that includes grabbing both the bitcoind tarball and a seed list tarball of choice

19:00:47 ascii_field: try to see, i don't suggest hosting therealbitcoin mega-seeds on dynamic ip consumer boxes

19:00:55 ascii_field: but on solid pipes somewhere, ideally

19:01:10 ascii_field: the movability is like nukes, shouldn't ever have to be -used- - with any regularity

19:01:16 nubbins`: nod

19:01:26 ascii_field: it must be there to remind the enemy of his helplessness

19:03:05 nubbins`: so the switch from phoundation seeds to foundation seeds must happen after said pipes are tapped

19:05:30 ascii_field: phoundation - usg

19:05:34 ascii_field: foundation - therealbitcoin

19:06:08 nubbins`: nod

19:06:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5115 @ 0.00023349 = 1.1943 BTC [+]

19:06:39 nubbins`: i try to use .foundation when they're not both in the same sentence 8)

19:08:17 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:08:22 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/aIuCFrx

19:08:22 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMu0OZ )

19:08:38 nubbins`: gonna try the SD-for-block-storage route on one of these

19:08:46 ascii_field: these are sata-less variant ?

19:08:58 nubbins`: nod

19:09:00 ascii_field: aha

19:09:08 nubbins`: still haven't found a reasonable purple-logo unit source for canada

19:09:31 nubbins`: although i suppose i'm sort of being an asshole by saying $28usd isn't reasonable

19:25:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00023234 = 3.4502 BTC [-]

19:27:52 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1069704 << it does have an "eject" button on the back next to the USB3 ports

19:27:52 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:18:28; asciilifeform: nubbins`: pogo4 has no buttons

19:28:01 nubbins`: yeah we determined that after

19:28:04 nubbins`: both had to check units iirc

19:28:16 ascii_field: danielpbarron: at first i though that the rear button was a cpu reset line

19:28:21 ascii_field: *thought

19:38:51 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:53:42 mircea_popescu: this one's for nubbins` http://i.imgur.com/QblQ8cO.gifv

19:53:43 assbot: Old dog tricking puppy, so cute. ... ( http://bit.ly/1budlut )

19:53:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.000232 = 1.5544 BTC [-] {2}

19:56:19 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070789 << check it out, altman is poor.

19:56:19 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:13:12; punkman: http://blog.samaltman.com/bubble-talk "This bet is open to the first VC who would like to take it . The loser donates $100,000 to a charity of the winner’s choice." meh

19:57:03 mircea_popescu: what's with the charity bs and what's with the sub million bs. is this the new jersey memorial golf circuit ?

19:59:12 mircea_popescu: (for poor people reading : "donating to a charity" = tax deduction = you didn't actually spend anything. because say my company has made 1mn revenue this year, and my tax accountant is bs so i have to pay like 120k in tax. if i donate 100k to a charity and pay 30k ish im all done. so therefore - whether i lose this bet or not decides whether i write a check to x or to y, not whether i write the check at all.

19:59:29 mircea_popescu: "donation to charity" is what rich people do to make poor people think something happened.)

20:00:19 mircea_popescu: and dealing in sub-million units is really like proposing to settle differences by wager of battle, "except let's use styrofoam weapons". totally dude, rad.

20:00:29 ascii_field: for extra mega-b0nus, the 'charity' is run by phriendz/childrenz/catamites of the 'donor'

20:00:42 mircea_popescu: in his case, for sure.

20:01:12 mircea_popescu: considering how the entire subculture is composed of nothing but "transhumanists"

20:01:16 mircea_popescu: where the fuck is that kid.

20:01:20 mircea_popescu: such a great picture he had

20:01:33 ascii_field: cishumanists

20:01:49 thestringpuller: ascii_field made a south parkian joke!

20:02:33 ascii_field: wai wat

20:02:36 thestringpuller: ascii_field: so russian d00d works on implmentations team. he was in the break room and we go up to him to ask him random question about rapper or something, and he's like "I don't have time for this shit. Are you paying me to answer this question?"

20:03:15 *: ascii_field would likely demand pay to answer such a question

20:03:25 mircea_popescu: omfg where is turkenest head

20:05:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 300 @ 0.00349371 = 1.0481 BTC [-]

20:05:25 danielpbarron: http://i0.wp.com/hplusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Screen-Shot-2015-03-12-at-10.58.28-AM.png?fit=300%2C300

20:05:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bufy9p )

20:06:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00022722 = 3.3515 BTC [-] {2}

20:07:32 nubbins`: heh

20:07:35 mircea_popescu: jerm la haine! found him!

20:07:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-03-2015#1059325

20:07:36 assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 04:12:53; mircea_popescu: "Jerm La Haine: I?ve been doing music production and graphic design for just under twenty years now."

20:07:50 nubbins`: 20 years o.O

20:07:57 nubbins`: what makes me think this guy is 25

20:08:15 mircea_popescu: http://i0.wp.com/hplusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Screen-Shot-2015-03-12-at-10.58.28-AM.png?resize=302%2C439 << jerm! la haine!

20:08:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1bug5rO )

20:08:40 mircea_popescu: ah tyvm danielpbarron lol

20:08:41 *: danielpbarron is following him on twitter

20:08:42 mircea_popescu: i was digging

20:08:48 mircea_popescu: since then or b4 ?

20:08:48 danielpbarron: i should have labeled it

20:08:51 danielpbarron: since then

20:09:00 mircea_popescu: lol shock trooper

20:09:24 danielpbarron: he claimed to not know who whoever someone here compared him to

20:10:23 danielpbarron: jaronlanier

20:10:27 mircea_popescu: and to round up the "sam altman is poor" thing : yes, he actually is.

20:10:53 mircea_popescu: leah goodman poor, which is to say he gets a few 100s of discretionary tspending a week and gets to - at the lord's pleasure - inhabit a decent mancave. for now.

20:10:54 mircea_popescu: but that's it.

20:11:06 nubbins`: i forgot about her

20:11:09 nubbins`: (tm)

20:11:11 mircea_popescu: and it his isn't poverty, i guess i'm just privileged.

20:11:40 mircea_popescu: nubbins` the ugly but aging sex in the city aspirationalist that "found satoshi's identity". then ascii_field thought she was rich then she wasn't.

20:12:14 mircea_popescu: if you b-a her name it's all in there because she's one of those (unfamous, anon irrelevant people that appear suddenly and on one topic. as opposed to say lenin.)

20:12:25 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:12:28 *: ascii_field has a possibly different imagination of 'rich' than mircea_popescu

20:12:47 mircea_popescu: you know, stupid people sleep ad libitum by the definition of those terms.

20:13:16 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: do they? or does the dependapotomus and its six screaming offspring wake'em

20:13:20 ascii_field: or the roommatez

20:13:26 ascii_field: or the roaches and bedbugs

20:13:36 nubbins`: i generally wake the roommates, not the other way around 8)

20:15:01 mircea_popescu: anyway im gonna be briefly afk

20:16:42 fluffypony: Romania: Internet vs. Roads - http://i.imgur.com/XHw8GLw.jpg

20:16:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMCtl9 )

20:19:16 punkman: http://theuserisdrunk.com/

20:19:17 assbot: The User is Drunk ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMCFRp )

20:19:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00023317 = 1.3524 BTC [+]

20:19:51 punkman: " Is this your only job? No. I have a full time job changing the world."

20:21:00 punkman: http://jpleary.tumblr.com/post/113925136153/keywords-for-the-age-of-austerity-16-flexibility

20:21:02 assbot: Keywords for the Age of Austerity 16: Flexibility ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMCJRf )

20:21:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16931 @ 0.00022409 = 3.7941 BTC [-]

20:23:50 trinque: punkman: hah I just quoted that part myself

20:23:56 trinque: what a toolbag

20:24:41 trinque: punkman: this is his "changing the world" https://www.ideapod.com/

20:24:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMDcTD )

20:25:11 trinque: looks like uh... twitter social thing, part 2352580238

20:25:58 punkman: https://www.ideapod.com/idea/55129ac7aed1543322f7ea2f

20:25:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMDlGt )

20:27:06 trinque: "I've always felt as if my brain was always wired for a short circuit or at least in a way that wasn't too appealing for anyone else but me.

20:27:07 trinque: Ideapod has given me courage to share my insights with its delightful community and made me realise that the problem wasn't my personal content, but my personal context. "

20:27:10 trinque: ahahahah

20:27:18 ascii_field: waiwat

20:27:32 trinque: yep given the right spotlight, any hag becomes irresistable

20:27:40 trinque: that's what I just learned

20:28:34 trinque: get enough of those together and "progress concentrate" starts to form, which can be bottled and sold at Whole Foods

20:28:58 ascii_field: menstruade (TM)

20:29:17 nubbins`: batorade (tm)

20:29:38 trinque: bahaha, either works

20:29:45 trinque: o look a poem https://www.ideapod.com/idea/54c70f5477656217dcfc0400

20:29:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BME62c )

20:32:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9946 @ 0.00023349 = 2.3223 BTC [+]

20:42:50 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:47:02 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/gC3AHbA

20:47:02 assbot: My copy machine was programmed not to completely copy money - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMFsu2 )

20:48:22 ascii_field: 'my targeting computer was programmed not to fire at usg'

20:49:24 ascii_field: anybody recall the gps-boobytrapped cnc mills thread

20:49:26 ascii_field: ?

20:51:17 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-01-2014#439853

20:51:17 assbot: Logged on 09-01-2014 02:38:52; asciilifeform: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/dmg-mori-gildemeister-maho-cnc/mori-ellison-gyroscope-unlocking-273841/

20:51:54 ascii_field: 'We as a company own all of the machines. There is no outstanding balance and we've already had the tech come out to unlock them. Due to some business changes, we want to move the machines around the shop floor to reconfigure our machining cell however as we've done more research, we've found that there is a small board in the electrical panel of the machine that houses a gyroscope so that if the machine is moved/tilted,

20:51:55 ascii_field: it will lock out the machine.'

20:52:06 ascii_field: ^ vintage thread. but reposted for the record

20:52:15 ascii_field: this is what usg-mandated code looks like.

20:58:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75438 @ 0.000236 = 17.8034 BTC [+] {6}

21:00:30 nubbins`: i recall that

21:15:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15826 @ 0.00025392 = 4.0185 BTC [+]

21:16:52 thestringpuller: !up ascii_field

21:20:17 nubbins`: !s turdel

21:20:18 assbot: 2 results for 'turdel' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=turdel

21:20:33 jurov: <fluffypony> Romania: Internet vs. Roads << slovakia the same

21:21:39 mircea_popescu: fluffypony yup. pretty much exactly.

21:23:58 mircea_popescu: <assbot> The User is Drunk ... << why not go all the way and admit it. "the user is stupid, therefore worthless. so am i. please pay me money because worthless idiots are people too. HUMAN RIGHTS ARE IRREVERSIBLE!!11"

21:24:48 mircea_popescu: https://plasso.co/richard.littauer@gmail.com << genius. let's use emails as urls.

21:24:50 assbot: Pay: Richard Littauer ... ( http://bit.ly/18Y6Puq )

21:25:53 mircea_popescu: trinque oddly that thing doesn't load any content for me. either im not drunk enough or you broke it.

21:26:29 mircea_popescu: nubbins`> batorade (tm) << secreted by the batshit insane ?

21:26:49 nubbins`: it still rhymes with gatorade!

21:26:58 trinque: mircea_popescu: you're not missing anything

21:27:32 mircea_popescu: anyway, the "Copy machine money" : this is a sad necessity. if it weren't present, muppets WOULD "try it", and discover "it works", and srsly financial collapse. for real.

21:28:00 trinque: the great canon pixma revolution of 2018

21:28:04 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: they did try, and result could only fool a muppet

21:28:30 mircea_popescu: which is 90% of people engaged in commerce.

21:28:31 ascii_field: and it takes some actual work to bleach a 1usd note to get anything like plausible paper for benjie

21:28:43 mircea_popescu: check it out, bitcointalk scams fooled tons of "early adopters", "world changers" etc.

21:28:59 ascii_field: different game. 'they wanted to believe'

21:29:08 mircea_popescu: ascii_field im talking money cut out of a fucking notebook.

21:29:11 mircea_popescu: so do these ?

21:29:14 mircea_popescu: exactly same game.

21:29:17 mircea_popescu: where's that video.

21:31:19 mircea_popescu: ;;google christina applegate buys a car with kellog's cornflakes cutoutsd.

21:31:21 gribble: No matches found.

21:31:27 ascii_field: (phun phact for non-u.s. folks: all u.s. dollar notes have exactly the same physical dimensions.)

21:31:29 mircea_popescu: yeah, well, google... that just means you're useless.

21:38:58 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i don't get it. who would "buy" such a thing ?

21:39:10 mircea_popescu: we're not talking 100 bucks for a piece of plastic here.

21:39:11 ascii_field: wai wat

21:39:18 ascii_field: buy what

21:39:24 mircea_popescu: 'We as a company own all of the machines. There is no outstanding balance and we've already had the tech come out to unlock them."

21:39:41 ascii_field: aha, as in 'who would buy a boeing' ?

21:39:55 mircea_popescu: "a company, not a person - or in other words nobody"

21:40:03 mircea_popescu: gotta love the systematic nature of stupid.

21:40:27 ascii_field: i thought mircea_popescu was asking why a firm would purchase rather than lease the machines

21:40:44 mircea_popescu: they paid them, it's not a lease anymore.

21:41:02 ascii_field: aha

21:41:25 *: ascii_field thought that mircea_popescu was asking why the machines are offered for purchase rather than, as often happens with such equipment, for lease

21:41:26 trinque: should've sued instead of just thanking the tech for restoring access to their property

21:41:39 ascii_field: trinque: you 'agree' when you buy

21:41:42 ascii_field: to the crapolade

21:41:47 mircea_popescu: trinque im thinking the same, this is something readily resolved in court.

21:41:51 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you agree never to move it ?

21:41:57 mircea_popescu: why ?

21:42:01 ascii_field: you agree to pay $$$$$ to move

21:42:07 ascii_field: because usg inspectors

21:42:39 *: mircea_popescu is unfamiliar with the field.

21:42:43 mircea_popescu: what's being inspected specifically ?

21:42:50 ascii_field: location

21:43:00 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070794 << the SEEDS. nodes constantly discover their own peers. starting from a seed list.

21:43:00 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:37:53; ascii_field: ben_vulpes: no, nodes don't get updated << so, let's go into this in detail. they ship with all the seed ips they will ever have? for the record i proclaim this to be retarded. -keys- are the constants of our world, not ip addrs

21:43:02 trinque: how hard would it be to break the accelerometer?

21:43:16 mircea_popescu: trinque it probably stops working.

21:43:22 nubbins`: gzip: turdel.gz: not in gzip format

21:43:25 mircea_popescu: ascii_field what about it ?

21:43:31 ascii_field: nubbins`: it sure as fuck is a gzip

21:43:34 ascii_field: wget it

21:43:38 ascii_field: don't use browser

21:43:42 ascii_field: (they often unzip)

21:43:51 nubbins`: o.

21:43:53 trinque: mircea_popescu: someone should have a business doing aftermarket mods on these

21:43:55 nubbins`: totally what i did. sec.

21:43:58 nubbins`: (and til!)

21:43:59 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what about it << it being in a usg-blessed region

21:44:07 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070795 << there's no such thing desired or even possible. understand : the scam foundation is stupid because it is actually stupid, not because me or you or god said it should be deemed as stupid.

21:44:07 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:39:09; ascii_field: i utterly understand the desire to 'tivoize' these things so they don't get turned into phoundation nodes by lamers. but this can be done without idiot waste.

21:44:13 mircea_popescu: actual hardware is useless for their purposes

21:44:21 mircea_popescu: they need imaginary hardware to support their imaginary "technologies"

21:44:35 ascii_field: ^ my puny brain does not get the meaning of this

21:44:39 ascii_field: imaginary hardware ?

21:44:42 mircea_popescu: yes.

21:44:49 ascii_field: as in vapourware ?

21:45:00 mircea_popescu: usgavin's been on a kick about this imaginary hardware that will run his 200 trillion jiggabit nodes.

21:45:11 mircea_popescu: because you know, "it quadruples every two weeks"

21:45:24 mircea_popescu: what's the pogo gonna do ?

21:45:26 ascii_field: neh from my perch it looks like they're gearing up for an elementary meat war of conventional nodes

21:45:39 mircea_popescu: that's what they think they're doing.

21:45:50 mircea_popescu: understand : they can stand on their fucking head. "vote" ? what fucking vote ?

21:45:58 mircea_popescu: heck, i'll vote WITH them on the voting stage of things

21:46:03 mircea_popescu: still rape them once the switch happens.

21:46:19 mircea_popescu: this is not a discussion of anything but the hard laws.

21:46:28 mircea_popescu: or w/e hanbot called it

21:46:51 trinque: hm

21:46:52 mircea_popescu: so : yeah, usg&friends thinks it's engaging me on its own terms.

21:46:56 mircea_popescu: and it has been doing this, for years now.

21:46:57 trinque: is it just a matter of preserving the existing chain?

21:47:04 trinque: not "winning" in the sense of a fork?

21:47:08 mircea_popescu: it does not work. might as well grab the moon with a tweezer

21:47:16 trinque: because they become incompatible, then go off to eventually die?

21:47:18 nubbins`: ascii_field oh wait this is just a blob, isn't it?

21:47:19 mircea_popescu: "i wonder why that doesn't work, the allignm,ent was perfect!"

21:47:30 ascii_field: nubbins`: it's just a demo kernel for pogo

21:47:31 mircea_popescu: trinque it autowins the fork.

21:47:34 nubbins`: nod

21:47:44 ascii_field: nubbins`: armv5 binary. nothing earth-shaking

21:47:54 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

21:48:07 nubbins`: brainfarted and thought you mentioned smth about a uboot being in there

21:48:15 ascii_field: nubbins`: -also- built u-boot

21:48:18 ascii_field: but not posted

21:48:22 nubbins`: aha! :D

21:48:39 ascii_field: and in case anyone needs to be reminded, please don't use downloaded binaries for anything serious

21:48:40 nubbins`: i was about to flash the nand when i recalled a nebulous something about this

21:48:41 mircea_popescu: ascii_field dja get my meaning here ?

21:49:08 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if i understand, the meaning is that there is no phoundation node ?

21:49:19 ascii_field: this still doesn't give us a license to be retarded when making these

21:49:23 mircea_popescu: there can not be a power ranger node that can run on a pogo.

21:49:29 mircea_popescu: think about it. 20mb blocks ? srsly ?

21:49:42 mircea_popescu: no, itdoesn't give us a license to be retarded.

21:49:45 thestringpuller: 20mb is only the limit!

21:49:46 ascii_field: actually, i can see them trying to convert'em to 0.10 or what it was

21:49:51 thestringpuller: the blocks will be much smaller

21:49:52 ascii_field: just to maintain relevance for selves

21:49:55 thestringpuller: until then!

21:49:56 ascii_field: and keep us off the stage

21:49:58 mircea_popescu: but if you imagine there's any room in the spec of this thing for the end user to fiddle with it you're ourgiht nuts.

21:50:01 mircea_popescu: fire and forget.

21:50:02 mircea_popescu: only way.

21:50:05 *: thestringpuller says other pseudo arguments

21:50:11 ascii_field: hardcoded seeds are retarded

21:50:21 ascii_field: i stand by this

21:50:25 trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah thought in the shower today that giving an easy way to dump other code into the thing later was a terrible idea

21:50:33 trinque: all the thing has to do is hold the line

21:50:35 ascii_field: they -will- be ddosed and sinkholed to usg machines.

21:50:37 ascii_field: guaranteed.

21:50:42 mircea_popescu: trinque it.costs.20.bux.to.get.one.

21:50:46 trinque: yeap

21:50:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00025269 = 3.664 BTC [-]

21:50:52 mircea_popescu: wtf people. srsly. if anyone WANTS TO run a pogo they can

21:50:57 mircea_popescu: they can run fucking madonna videos on it

21:50:58 mircea_popescu: k ?

21:50:59 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 20bux + a man with a suitcase to bring it to you, if you're in ar

21:51:10 mircea_popescu: we are solving third world problems now ?

21:51:15 ascii_field: and that's while the 20bux machines last.

21:51:23 mircea_popescu: fuck the third world with a spiked club. if it wasn't made by retards it wouldn't be third.

21:51:40 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if we're so non-thirdworld, where's my ic fab ?

21:51:52 mircea_popescu: these are different problems omg.

21:52:11 ascii_field: fact is, 101st or 202nd pogo, whichever, will cost $maxint.

21:52:12 mircea_popescu: the mexican billionaire w/e his name is has his own ic fab made out of driewd cunt juice./

21:52:16 mircea_popescu: so ?

21:52:34 ascii_field: so we're thirdworld. or we wouldn't be playing junkyard wars.

21:52:40 ascii_field: or do i misunderstand the term

21:53:01 thestringpuller: how is this anything like junk yard wars?

21:53:10 ascii_field: thestringpuller: we're repurposing obsolete hardware

21:53:15 ascii_field: rather than fabbing single-chip node

21:53:21 ascii_field: from ore

21:53:27 trinque: an AK is a great gun

21:53:36 ascii_field: !s izhevsk

21:53:37 assbot: 4 results for 'izhevsk' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=izhevsk

21:53:43 ascii_field: ^ mandatory

21:53:51 mircea_popescu: i think you misunderstand the term.

21:53:58 ascii_field: hm?

21:54:12 mircea_popescu: but anyway : forget argentina, and forget the anecdotal peculiarities of my odd choices in things.

21:54:42 thestringpuller: ascii_field: this seems more like battlebots than junkyard wars. (Junkyard wars reminds me more of ed edd and eddie which was pretty much all junkyard hacking"

21:54:51 mircea_popescu: this is a consumer product, it works like a consumer product. once it stops working it gets thrown out.

21:54:59 mircea_popescu: it is not an item to be loved, dreamed about, repaired, tuned etc.

21:55:25 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i get this. but we're dealing with a fundamental case of amplification attack.

21:55:32 mircea_popescu: specifically ?

21:55:40 ascii_field: enemy can cost us K by spending J, where J is close to nil and K is positive

21:55:51 mircea_popescu: sp.eci.fi.cally!!111

21:55:52 ascii_field: they ddos the magic ips - or worse, silently redirect to own boxes

21:55:59 ascii_field: and we have to parachute new units ?

21:56:07 mircea_popescu: yes.

21:56:16 ascii_field: i say this is retarded

21:56:18 mircea_popescu: for the cost of this project, i wish to see large scale ip diddling

21:56:26 mircea_popescu: i totally wish to see it.

21:56:33 mircea_popescu: heck, ima make a blog post about it.

21:56:55 ascii_field: just for mircea_popescu's pleasure they will do straight sinkhole

21:56:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00025269 = 1.3645 BTC [-]

21:56:59 ascii_field: instead of diddlage

21:57:08 mircea_popescu: and this won't be all over the internets, either.

21:57:21 mircea_popescu: dja see how the fucking attacked ips are actually more valuable than the damned pogos ?

21:57:26 ascii_field: at any rate, -we won't know- that it's pointing to usg boxes emulating our nodes

21:57:32 mircea_popescu: right.

21:57:39 ascii_field: there is no mechanism for distinguishing a correctly operating node from one that will be until day X

21:57:40 mircea_popescu: overengineering is like cocaine.

21:58:16 ascii_field: the fucking attacked ips are actually more valuable than the damned pogos << they are not valuable because we can never prove they exist

21:58:24 ascii_field: even to our own satisfaction

21:58:29 mircea_popescu: ...

21:58:38 ascii_field: i'll spell it out:

21:58:40 mircea_popescu: because they only exist halfway, like competent usg and able nsa ?

21:58:44 ascii_field: 1) we deploy boxes with magic ips

21:59:00 ascii_field: 2) usg redirects them to exact copies of our own boxes sitting in ft meade

21:59:17 ascii_field: 3) ages pass and we notice nothing. they switch theirs off when ours go off, etc. direct mitm

21:59:27 mircea_popescu: orly.

21:59:32 mircea_popescu: no measurable latency of this

21:59:34 ascii_field: 4) on day X they turn on the mitm diddlamatic and do... something

21:59:36 ascii_field: 5) ???

21:59:37 ascii_field: 6) profit

21:59:42 mircea_popescu: what fucking profit lol.

21:59:50 ascii_field: ask'em not me

21:59:53 mircea_popescu: ft meade gets to look like a kiddy pool i took a piss in

21:59:58 mircea_popescu: total profit.

22:00:02 nubbins`: so deploy them with magic ips and "check here monthly for updated seed list, the walls have eyes, sam is in the trees, etc"

22:00:04 mircea_popescu: wron side of the scoreboard, but sure, profit.

22:00:18 mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's a concentration of the problem.

22:00:21 mircea_popescu: now you have a "here"

22:00:32 nubbins`: the original seed list is a "here"

22:00:37 ascii_field: precisely why i didn't say 'network update'

22:00:40 mircea_popescu: right but you're adding a narrower version.

22:00:42 nubbins`: (and there, and there, and there...)

22:00:47 ascii_field: i said 'will eat update signed by key'

22:01:02 ascii_field: the key in mircea_popescu's ring, or wherever

22:01:04 mircea_popescu: ascii_field if you're so absolutely convinced, how about seedlist is a config file sits with blockchain on disk ?

22:01:10 trinque: ascii_field: that's what I proposed

22:01:11 ascii_field: aha

22:01:14 ascii_field: that was what i asked for

22:01:21 trinque: an address sending transactions which indicate hashes of updates

22:01:26 trinque: of the seedlist, whatever

22:01:32 trinque: and yeah, then somebody is a point of failure

22:01:43 mircea_popescu: ascii_field seemed to me you're asking for an entirely something erlse, but anyway

22:02:07 mircea_popescu: iirc you were asking for a complex update gpg signature thing. not for a simple "move x text file from /sda to /sdb"

22:03:29 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> right but you're adding a narrower version. << so "check the usual places monthly", w/e

22:04:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16171 @ 0.00024929 = 4.0313 BTC [-] {2}

22:04:12 mircea_popescu: nubbins` if it's not narrower just make it the seed list. bam back to square one.

22:04:21 mircea_popescu: you're trying to jump a fence by crawling on your back.

22:04:38 *: nubbins` shakes head

22:04:53 trinque: what if the seed list was encoded directly as transactions?

22:05:00 nubbins`: monthly state of bitcoin address, "check out these sweet seed ips"

22:05:05 trinque: trusted after some large number of confirmations

22:05:09 trinque: nubbins`: yeha.

22:05:18 nubbins`: "feel free to update the seed list that came w/ your device"

22:05:29 nubbins`: "it's been signed by us and our pubkeys shipped with your device"

22:05:35 trinque: I'm not even saying that

22:05:36 mircea_popescu: motherfucker.

22:05:38 nubbins`: THEN you only need to worry about the NSA intercepting the shipments.

22:05:40 trinque: encode IPs into outputs or something

22:06:11 mircea_popescu: build a cnc mill in every pogo, be done with it.

22:06:21 mircea_popescu: they could make dildos while brushing gf's teeth.

22:06:49 nubbins`: <+trinque> what if the seed list was encoded directly as transactions? <<< how you gonna get those transactions?

22:07:02 mircea_popescu: by infinite power.

22:07:32 *: mircea_popescu passes out "you suck at system design" dounce hats liberally.

22:07:42 trinque: eh ok

22:07:45 *: nubbins` sighs

22:07:53 trinque: obviously the thing has to connect to something first

22:08:10 trinque: if you wanted it to connect to other somethings later, either the natural way or some means of signaling

22:08:15 nubbins`: i'm suggesting shipping them with a hardcoded seed list *just like you are*

22:08:19 trinque: if you can't trust a txn that's very old, uh

22:08:21 trinque: bitcoin doesn't work

22:08:33 mircea_popescu: nubbins` do you mind ? i'm being mean over here.

22:08:35 nubbins`: i'm just also saying that /new seeds can be published in the future by the .foundation, if they want to/

22:08:44 *: nubbins` tips table over

22:08:59 mircea_popescu: was that a laser tip or an artisanal tip ?

22:09:05 nubbins`: mushroom tip

22:09:12 mircea_popescu: jus' the tip!

22:09:23 nubbins`: 's all that fits

22:10:21 mircea_popescu: (im kinda nonplussed that nobody even seems to realise seed list is only interesting on boot and these aren't intended to ever reboot, really.)

22:10:40 trinque: comcast will eventually go out

22:10:47 mircea_popescu: boot. not network outage.

22:11:00 mircea_popescu: how often does your 1.8 watt thing drain the ups ?

22:11:11 trinque: if they're consumer turds no ups

22:11:13 nubbins`: once every whoops i unplugged it

22:11:24 trinque: "fucking around behind the TV"

22:11:32 mircea_popescu: nubbins` onoes, you ruined 20 bux worht of old gear (plus shipping and handling!)

22:11:47 mircea_popescu: buy two plug them in diff bedrooms.

22:12:01 mircea_popescu: this is hopw the problem is solved in this space : buy more units.

22:13:05 mircea_popescu: i guess nobody ever played zerg hm ?

22:13:32 mircea_popescu: "dude that zergling's broken" "mmkay" "aren't you going to repair it ?" "wut ?! *click* *click* *click* *click* *click*"

22:13:35 nubbins`: nobody's gonna pay ten cents for something that breaks if you turn it off

22:13:52 mircea_popescu: it breaks if you turn it off && fort meade floats in the air above your house.

22:14:21 nubbins`: ha.

22:14:24 mircea_popescu: also known as, not a single seed ip remains.

22:14:31 trinque: anyhow I think any remote control of any kind is bad, mkay

22:14:46 trinque: but if they need some kind of signaling, signaling by blockchain is probably the safest

22:14:55 trinque: not "we trust this pastebin" or w/e

22:14:59 trinque: even gpg signed

22:15:01 mircea_popescu: in general. not when you're signalling how to get the blockchain.

22:15:47 *: trinque goes to find the length of the longest-ever fork

22:15:58 trinque: rather, fork which was abandoned

22:16:09 mircea_popescu: in any case, the "this thing breaks if it runs out of power at any point after the enemy (or more likely plain old rust) has destroyedall seed ips" proposition is better value than

22:16:25 mircea_popescu: "this thing breaks iof there's a bug found in gpg. or if we didn't implement signature checking correctly. or or or or"

22:16:26 nubbins`: trinque for all you know i forked the blockchain 2 years ago and am still shuffling my forked coins

22:16:37 mircea_popescu: trinque not an answerable q.

22:17:25 mircea_popescu: (and before anyone goes "how could we implement signature checking incorrectly", this was discussed mere days ago. === "no errors found" or what was it)

22:18:17 trinque: nubbins`: you can declare you've spent my coin? and others will be able to verify this?

22:18:25 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

22:18:35 mircea_popescu: trinque they can be empty blocks, still a fork.

22:18:41 nubbins`: trinque that's not what you were looking for 8)

22:19:08 nubbins`: mircea_popescu so are you proposing that all pogos ever sent out will contain or w/e current release is when the first one goes out?

22:19:15 mircea_popescu: nope.

22:19:22 nubbins`: then it's sort of a self-solving problem

22:19:29 mircea_popescu: i propose whoever makes one puts w/e the fuck they want in there and that's that for the damned unit in question

22:19:37 mircea_popescu: and if you want to change, derp. change the production flux.

22:19:56 mircea_popescu: you know, like industry works since fortever. not like ford mondeo got recalled because hey, they got ford fluence out, so they'll conver them

22:20:11 nubbins`: obviously if the foundation is still producing new releases, it's going to be maintaining a seed list for that release, rather than just continuing to let the dead nodes build up

22:20:18 mircea_popescu: ok.

22:20:26 nubbins`: so if anyone particularly feels like they don't want their out of date unit to be so

22:20:41 nubbins`: they're 100% welcome to grab the latest foundation release, because obv it'll still work

22:20:50 nubbins`: it's just off-label usage as far as we're concerned.

22:21:43 nubbins`: ascii_field ^^ ?

22:21:57 danielpbarron: i know "time isn't really money" but however long it takes to upgrade one of these things is probably enough time to earn more than 20 USD working at McDonalds

22:22:22 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron the (actually sound) argument is that they won't be 20 forever, we're eating up a bubble of externalised cost.

22:22:24 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1071312 why, yes, this has been done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_blocking_access_to_The_Pirate_Bay

22:22:24 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 21:56:26; mircea_popescu: i totally wish to see it.

22:22:25 assbot: Countries blocking access to The Pirate Bay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nhf4PC )

22:22:42 trinque: heh!

22:22:43 mircea_popescu: jurov i am not seeing it can not be done.

22:22:48 mircea_popescu: i am seeing i wish to see it done, for us.

22:22:57 mircea_popescu: s/seeing/saying/

22:23:04 jurov: lolk

22:24:48 jurov: i see, it actually helped thepirateby immensely

22:25:12 mircea_popescu: they ARE making political parties and getting various lawmaker seats because of it.

22:25:31 jurov: and alf will finally get his dreamed out gasenwagen too

22:25:52 mircea_popescu: well he wanted to meet o'brien.

22:29:27 ascii_field: was in meeting

22:29:30 ascii_field: bak

22:29:58 danielpbarron: https://youtu.be/f-6UwDP23s4?t=1m46s

22:30:00 assbot: Seinfeld - George Hates the Jews - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NhfXaR )

22:30:23 trinque: beat the thing one more time... publishing say a magnet link from a known address to an address or addresses representing a bittorrent magnet link seems a fine way to be able to trust shuffling bits out to nodes if that were wanted

22:30:31 ascii_field: aarrgh

22:30:41 mircea_popescu: lawl.

22:30:41 trinque: pub/priv-key encrypt either works or doesn't, sha256 either works or doesn't

22:30:57 ascii_field: trinque: mircea_popescu was alluding to protocol finesse

22:31:00 ascii_field: rather than cryptobreak

22:31:14 ascii_field: as in, e.g., the 'der' idiocy

22:31:23 mircea_popescu: it's just more hard work to read the shit. which is work. which we don't fucking hasve the time for.

22:31:28 mircea_popescu: let's do only the things that are useful.

22:32:02 trinque: mircea_popescu: 100% granted, that is a fine reason not to do it

22:32:15 mircea_popescu: i'm in no case saying that w/e, any one in b-a *couldn't * correctly implement what alf is proposing./

22:32:24 mircea_popescu: i am however saying that no one here can implement it in zero time.

22:32:42 *: ascii_field can probably implement it in less time than building linux 3.18 took

22:32:57 mircea_popescu: wouldja stop ?! omai gawd.

22:33:03 *: ascii_field wishes to ask mircea_popescu for a favourite tarball of gpg, signed

22:33:19 mircea_popescu: dude keeps exposing himself to these cardano by xmas type of things. why all the self hate yo!

22:33:56 ascii_field: http://xkcd.com/1425 << obligatory

22:33:57 assbot: xkcd: Tasks ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZveh0 )

22:33:58 brendafdez: ;;later tell BingoBoingo it doesn't like me. says too many redirects. links says same. http://i.imgur.com/P5BZM7y.png

22:33:59 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZvgFv )

22:34:00 gribble: The operation succeeded.

22:34:06 mircea_popescu: just forget it, srsly. seed list can live on hdd with blockchain if the notion of hardcoded magic ip numbers makes you retch

22:34:14 mircea_popescu: that's a completely sufficient solution here, lettuce move on.

22:35:37 *: ascii_field will build rootfs tonight

22:35:44 ascii_field: for pogo/linux

22:36:01 ascii_field: if anyone has notions of what cmdline utils ought to be included - please say.

22:36:06 ascii_field: brb, car.

22:36:22 danielpbarron: tail

22:36:32 danielpbarron: ps

22:36:38 danielpbarron: top

22:36:49 trinque: danielpbarron: that's all in busybox iirc

22:36:57 danielpbarron: grep

22:37:08 trinque: maybe not top, dunno

22:37:21 trinque: neh top is

22:37:22 trinque: danielpbarron: http://www.busybox.net/downloads/BusyBox.html

22:37:25 assbot: BusyBox - The Swiss Army Knife of Embedded Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/1NhgLfO )

22:37:41 danielpbarron: top might not be needed; i'm just listing the things I use on a regular basis on pogo

22:37:56 danielpbarron: i use top to watch for when bitcoind is done throwing a tantrum

22:39:00 danielpbarron: oh, sshd

22:39:21 trinque: if they're fire and forget anything that needs an open port is an attack vector

22:40:04 danielpbarron: in that case, none of what i just listed is needed

22:41:35 trinque: the disposable RTS unit thing rings true

22:42:05 trinque: the guy who buys this either can service, can buy a new one, or fuck off.. there's no support staff

22:42:30 danielpbarron: if the thing ascii is making will not sshd, anyone who wishes to help test will need to "adulterate" their pogo

22:42:32 *: trinque has simply read too much loper os, the blockchain telegraphy one in particular

22:46:28 jurov: did you solve the clock, does it need time sync at all?

22:46:42 trinque: bwah hah ha

22:50:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00023389 = 2.0933 BTC [-]

22:53:28 trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-01-2015#993360

22:53:28 assbot: Logged on 27-01-2015 01:58:25; asciilifeform: ^ above code will have to be changed to actually set the machine clock ?

22:54:00 trinque: ^ relevant perhaps, found via googling, heh! not via logs.b-a search

22:56:51 trinque: !up CheckDavid

23:01:54 trinque: !up mixdio

23:01:56 nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> if the thing ascii is making will not sshd, anyone who wishes to help test will need to "adulterate" their pogo <<< plz to sshd!

23:02:44 trinque: if you give a mouse an sshd he's going to want his pubkey added

23:02:56 danielpbarron: it sounds like a very hard thing to do if you've never soldered before, but think of it as a good excuse to learn a new skill

23:03:10 danielpbarron: and it's not /so/ hard

23:03:29 nubbins`: i'm not soldering anything into more than one unit

23:03:38 danielpbarron: you only need one

23:03:41 nubbins`: wait, test, heh

23:04:02 trinque: my VPS has something attacking it at the moment, lol

23:04:06 mircea_popescu: brendafdez try now.

23:04:07 trinque: really wants to ssh in

23:04:42 nubbins`: anyway for the sake of popping it in there, keep sshd

23:05:42 brendafdez: mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering.

23:06:14 BingoBoingo: The insanity would really be not filtering

23:10:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18380 @ 0.00024063 = 4.4228 BTC [+] {2}

23:11:20 mod6: <+danielpbarron> top << instead of this heavy weight bs, vmstat

23:12:05 *: mod6 has never liked top much

23:12:50 trinque: seems irrelevant, if you're in, you can already install stuff

23:16:13 mircea_popescu: <jurov> did you solve the clock, does it need time sync at all? << REAL CLOCKS KEEP THEIR OWN TIME!

23:16:15 danielpbarron: trinque> really wants to ssh in << me too

23:16:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.0002424 = 5.1389 BTC [+] {2}

23:16:39 trinque: danielpbarron: nah I was talking about a bot attacking my VPS

23:16:47 danielpbarron: yeah me too

23:16:50 trinque: oh lol

23:21:02 trinque: hah I stopped getting hit when I mentioned it here

23:21:11 mod6: does anyone know where I might be able to get a gentoo vm?

23:21:15 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070848 << lawl

23:21:15 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:48:05; ascii_field: (who don't appear to be logged in at present, but, still)

23:21:53 mod6: digitalocean has ubuntu/freebsd/fedora/debian/coreos/centos

23:22:27 trinque: mod6: I've got gentoo up on ec2

23:23:50 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070912 << this bit of nubbsy wisdom is perhaps the pivot for understanding what's to understand in this pogo debate.

23:23:50 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 18:04:25; ben_vulpes: there is no friend/foe

23:24:06 mircea_popescu: there literally is no enemy. there can't be. bitcoin is agnostic in this sense.

23:24:15 mircea_popescu: the only option agents have is whether to exist or not exist.

23:24:24 mod6: trinque: ah, ok. thanks. i think i'll try to set up a local one first. my env is x86_64, but maybe vbox will let me run a x86_32 environment

23:24:27 mircea_popescu: there's no lever to toggle from enemy to friend or w/e.

23:24:48 trinque: mod6: https://rich0gentoo.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/gentoo-ec2-tutorial-bootstrapping/ << might be helpful

23:24:49 assbot: Gentoo EC2 Tutorial / Bootstrapping | Rich0's Gentoo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9Xcbb )

23:24:53 mod6: thanks

23:25:03 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070918 << spot-check ?! why spot check. you check.

23:25:03 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 18:04:58; ben_vulpes: and it'll remain that way until the block download thing is fixed to a) track node quality and b) spot-check blocks provided by high quality peers

23:25:54 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-03-2015#1070932 << quite. ip6 doesn't exist for this purpose yet.

23:25:54 assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 18:07:41; ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i recommend strongly against ipv6 in this machine

23:26:01 mod6: is there a preferred version of gentoo that I should test on?

23:27:05 trinque: wow. seriously, entries in auth.log every couple seconds until *just now*

23:27:14 trinque: IPs from all over china

23:27:20 *: trinque chuckles

23:27:53 mod6: danielpbarron: what version of gentoo are you using?

23:30:49 danielpbarron: 3.17.8-gentoo-r1

23:31:05 mod6: thanks :]

23:32:24 danielpbarron: trinque, same here

23:32:25 danielpbarron: wtf

23:32:34 mod6: im confused here...

23:32:45 mircea_popescu: pastebin ips ?

23:32:48 trinque: danielpbarron: get ye some fail2ban

23:32:51 trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah I will

23:32:52 trinque: and sign

23:32:53 nubbins`: sorry guise, misconfig on my chinese node botnet

23:33:01 mircea_popescu: well both of you, and compare.

23:33:22 mod6: is it called "stage3"? is this an appropriate iso? http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/current-stage3-i686/install-x86-minimal-20150324.iso

23:35:42 danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/sshd-fail.txt

23:35:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1N9Z9EB )

23:36:49 trinque: danielpbarron: oh yeah, I've got those IPs

23:36:52 trinque: pasting in a sec

23:37:31 *: mircea_popescu idly looks

23:38:33 danielpbarron: someone is also doing the same to another ip address i have

23:39:29 danielpbarron: Blocking for >630secs: 40 danger in 4 attacks over 8 seconds

23:39:51 nubbins`: height=200150!

23:41:25 jurov: mod6 stage3 yes

23:41:48 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/18KNR7V << this is how a day of fraudsters looks like. average, 1-200 derps try.

23:41:49 assbot: dpaste: 18KNR7V ... ( http://bit.ly/1Na0dbo )

23:42:19 jurov: just move the sshd to alternative port (best if it isn't in nmap shortlist)

23:43:02 mod6: thanks jurov

23:43:54 danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/580856115312738304

23:43:56 assbot: Moderator asks audience, "Who here thinks there will be a hard fork missile crisis?" /petertoddbtc raises his hand.

23:46:37 asciilifeform: l0l wat

23:48:18 asciilifeform: trinque: blockchain telegraphy << bootstrap flyer. you don't have a blockchain when the thing powers up

23:48:53 asciilifeform: sshd << i will include 'dropbear' (cut-down sshd used in routers) for the dev build. i don't expect to see it in the battlefield build.

23:49:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there literally is no enemy... << this is a tough nut to crack, could use explanation

23:50:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall the ancient discussion re "what if nsa held a bunch of btc" ?

23:50:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only option agents have is whether to exist or not exist << their purpose is to un-exist us.

23:50:33 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron where was this ?

23:50:44 asciilifeform: spot-check ?! why spot check. you check << see latest thread re: tandem

23:50:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but there isn't a box in the windoze to input that purpose.

23:51:00 mircea_popescu: that's the big deal here.

23:52:04 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: sshd-fail.txt << a balanced diet of 1) nonstandard port for the demon 2) 'fail2ban' or equivalent 3) just not giving a fuck - works for me

23:52:29 trinque: asciilifeform: the notable part is that attack stopped for both of us when I mentioned it

23:52:43 mircea_popescu: i think you may have a genetic explanation of intelligence there.

23:53:14 asciilifeform: wawat

23:53:32 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/shavers-enters-not-guilty-plea/

23:53:33 assbot: Shavers Enters Not Guilty Plea | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Na2CD6 )

23:53:40 mircea_popescu: (me last year, waiting for cab with dude in timisoara. cab kinda late. me : "check it out, i'ma light a cigarette and by the magical magic of smoking, it'll show up immediately.

23:54:00 mircea_popescu: mp lights cigarette, cab turns in immediately, mp is revered as god by the kid in question.)

23:54:12 trinque: danielpbarron: where does it end in your log?

23:54:20 *: asciilifeform routinely refers to umbrella as 'rain eliminator'

23:54:39 asciilifeform: (just as much as the cig is a cab-summoner!)

23:54:41 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (me last year, waiting for cab with dude in timisoara. cab kinda late. me : "check it out, i'ma light a cigarette and by the magical magic of smoking, it'll show up immediately. << Most well known phenomenon associated with tobacco use

23:55:26 mircea_popescu: correlation of pseudorandom variables is a wonderfuil thing

23:56:45 mircea_popescu: !up jfdjdjdjdjrejeii

23:56:56 jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: Yo

23:57:00 mircea_popescu: aha.

23:57:13 trinque: notably the thing never tries any username obviously associated with public info about me

23:57:15 mircea_popescu: thanks god for autotab.

23:57:15 trinque: just strange

23:57:20 jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: Aha what

23:57:55 asciilifeform: meowmix ?

23:57:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00023937 = 2.2022 BTC [-] {2}

23:58:01 trinque: probably chinese bots just crawling the internet for hostnames to poke

23:58:14 jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: Meowmix is a cat food

23:58:57 asciilifeform: it is also a bozo who connects from jfdjdjdjdjrejeii's slash24