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Transcript for 25-04-2014, 2426 lines:

00:00:08 ThickAsThieves: mp did you see preston's retort? it's like a text version of the baby-with-mirror gif http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/04/21/that-didnt-take-long/

00:00:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06835246 = 0.3418 BTC [+]

00:00:25 ThickAsThieves: TLDR = No u!

00:01:07 kakobrekla: bb dude have you read that thread, jesus fuck.

00:01:30 ThickAsThieves: the preston dude is offensively oblivious

00:02:54 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves no, is it any good ?

00:03:03 mircea_popescu: mike_c you now get a link off "cookie". good enuff ?

00:03:15 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: The part where they finally liquidate after a bunch of "no u" back and forth between Gar and Goat

00:03:40 mike_c: ah, yes. good enuff.

00:04:03 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves heh wd.

00:06:07 kakobrekla: im not even sure what they are doing

00:06:15 kakobrekla: its like monthy python on drugs

00:06:23 kakobrekla: and real.

00:06:55 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1795538/plain/)

00:06:55 mircea_popescu: !b 3

00:07:16 mircea_popescu: the stones from the earth have spoken through the kako

00:08:24 mircea_popescu: bashed 102 quotes with 4440 votes < this is like.. not bad is it.

00:09:13 kakobrekla: srs, look at this, must be preserved;

00:09:15 kakobrekla: --

00:09:16 kakobrekla: Quote from: Garr255 on April 21, 2014, 10:30:18 PM

00:09:16 kakobrekla: Cognitive Mining LLC is no longer liable for any past or present action or involved in the management of this project in any way. It is fully within the rights of Cognitive Mining LLC to find a new operator and resign.

00:09:17 kakobrekla: --

00:09:29 kakobrekla: what is this even

00:09:43 BingoBoingo: No one knows except the people who shouldn't

00:10:07 mircea_popescu: it looks like they're announcing a new bitcoin credit card

00:10:10 mircea_popescu: imo

00:10:20 kakobrekla: lol

00:12:12 artifexd: ;;rate hanbot 1 vital part of my education

00:12:13 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user hanbot has been recorded.

00:20:45 ThickAsThieves: yknow this auth shit frustrates when paired with a crash

00:23:56 Duffer1: a ~20min grace would be nice

00:24:00 Duffer1: if possible

00:25:02 BingoBoingo: It already has a 2-3 minute grace

00:29:14 BingoBoingo: http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/04/18/the_future_of_war_25_you_better_be_ready_to_fight_like_its_a_pre_electronic_age

00:35:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5408 @ 0.0009501 = 5.1381 BTC [-] {3}

00:46:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10298 @ 0.00094989 = 9.782 BTC [-]

00:50:43 BingoBoingo: jurov: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579498.0

00:52:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06963114 = 0.6963 BTC [+] {2}

00:53:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00094851 = 11.4295 BTC [-]

00:55:27 BingoBoingo: http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/04/23/bitcoin-needs-a-new-logo/

00:55:33 mircea_popescu: !up vcorem

00:55:33 assbot: Voicing vcorem for 30 minutes.

00:58:08 BingoBoingo: Preston has so much derp http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/04/22/the-ballad-of-doug-the-dao-part-1-time-to-stop-thinking-like-an-engineer/

01:00:03 mircea_popescu: "The U.S. Air Force, for example, no longer trains navigators in celestial sightings,"

01:00:04 mircea_popescu: holy shit.

01:00:50 BingoBoingo: Yeah, but... sounds right based of whisperings.

01:01:30 BingoBoingo: The ground pounders seem to still be getting well versed in the arts of map and compass, but for the rest...

01:02:39 mircea_popescu: this reads to me like "the us cook force no longer trains sauce chefs in flour-and-oil saucing"

01:02:41 BingoBoingo: Then there's the accident by which a fuel tanker and crew were lost because control systems failed. The crew was done in though by a lack of parachutes which had been recently removed.

01:02:44 mircea_popescu: well what the fuck then

01:04:54 mike_c: this preston jackass strikes me as a rebirth of dr foreskin. not worth even getting riled up over, and yet he manages to get under my skin with his herp derp.

01:05:04 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker

01:05:05 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 496.2, Best ask: 496.41, Bid-ask spread: 0.21000, Last trade: 496.41, 24 hour volume: 8131.92029418, 24 hour low: 480.0, 24 hour high: 505.0, 24 hour vwap: 490.566399614

01:05:22 mircea_popescu: mike_c do you like zappa ?

01:05:48 mike_c: i don't really know him

01:06:08 BingoBoingo: Well the US defense posture goes back to the comments here where the challenges of an actual invasion of the US are discussed in terms of some areas having too many hillbillies to hold for an invader http://fraudsters.com/2014/most-wrong-and-absolutely-wrongest/

01:06:23 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZHa0_W8PD8 that's the song.

01:07:42 mircea_popescu: ow fuck. no, wrong one. this is it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQQOhwL7nkM

01:08:21 mike_c: i was getting into disco boy :) i like it.

01:08:34 mircea_popescu: Don't know much about dancin' that's why I got this song

01:08:34 mircea_popescu: One of my legs is shorter than the other 'n both my feet's too long

01:08:34 mircea_popescu: 'Course now right along with 'em I got no natural rhythm

01:08:34 mircea_popescu: But I go dancin' every night hopin' one day I might get it right

01:08:56 mircea_popescu: I hear that beat; I jump outa my seat but I can't compete, cause I'm a dancin' fool, I'm a dancin' fool

01:09:06 BingoBoingo: The greatest problem with the movie Red Dawn is that no sane invader of the US would spend more effort than necessary to hold the Rockie Mountains than that necessary to cripple command structures there.

01:09:12 mircea_popescu: When they see me comin' they all step aside

01:09:15 mircea_popescu: They has a fit while I commit my social suicide,

01:09:16 mircea_popescu: etc.

01:09:37 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't imagine anyone would be invading the us.

01:09:56 mircea_popescu: just you know, sink all its cruisers and impose a massive war reparations programme.

01:10:29 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In the next 100 to 500 year someone might want to use Kansas as their own breadbasket.

01:10:36 mircea_popescu: why ?

01:10:47 mircea_popescu: just tax the locals.

01:11:27 BingoBoingo: See this is the genius of Putin in Crimea and the enablement of US golden toilets all rolled into one.

01:11:54 BingoBoingo: Putin could have crimea and Eastern Ukraine because the people already favor Russia.

01:12:07 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmAqdKJCUAAHdzf.jpg << dat michelle ass.

01:12:20 BingoBoingo: However if 1000 hillbillies with rifles oppose their own government over cows...

01:12:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7652 @ 0.00094896 = 7.2614 BTC [+] {2}

01:12:31 BingoBoingo: What luck do the Chinese have

01:13:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1848 @ 0.00095066 = 1.7568 BTC [+]

01:13:35 BingoBoingo: The same thing that gives Putin his good fortune enables America's golden toilets thus.

01:14:33 BingoBoingo: The entire world is Italy.

01:18:46 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/804/obama-will-mention-bitcoin-before-2015/#c2845a << re this, kakobrekla or anyone with the data ready, what's the average duration for bitbet bets ?

01:19:02 jurov: BingoBoingo they don't necessarily favor Russia, they know well who Putin is

01:19:17 jurov: but they will be made to favor it any way necessary

01:19:59 BingoBoingo: jurov: Well, no one is offered a perfectly selection of choices.

01:20:57 BingoBoingo: What enables or prohibits aggression for territory, is not tanks fighter jets, or nukes but the williness or lack thereof to accept certain kinds or sources of governance.

01:21:21 mircea_popescu: let me interject something related i was just happening to read. a bit of a paste :

01:21:55 mircea_popescu: This stickiness of the Semitic languages supports a speculation: by the 7th Century there had to be many pockets in the Western Mediterranean of Punic-Canaanite speakers, about a thousand years after the fall of Carthage. Falling under Roman rule did not turn the population into Latin speakers (only for scholarly purposes, say Saint Augustine of Hyppo; we have much evidence of diglossia in the Levant, of the use of a l

01:21:55 mircea_popescu: anguage at home and for oral communication that is different from the language of writing, and doing so for 1000 years). And there had to be plenty of Semitic language speakers; just follow placenames from Carthage to Ramatuelle in France near Saint Tropez (ramat el means hill of God in both Canaanite and Hebrew). Even Marseilles seems to come from Marsa, port in Canaanite (and not from Massilia the Roman name since th

01:21:58 mircea_popescu: e Romans did not make names, but transcribed them). I estimate that the third of the coastal villages spoke Semitic dialects. The modus of the Phoenicians was network, hence a system of trade links built on trust (you send merchandise to a relative who pays you back; you needed a certain amount of trust before the letter of credit). The region is large: it extends all the way to Mogador on the Atlantic coast.

01:22:03 mircea_popescu: This explains the mystery of the effortless Arab invasion of the Southern and Western Mediterranean, all the way to Spain (and, less advertised, the Portuguese Algarve). They had to be welcomed by the local population along the coast. Canaanite and Arabic are easily mutually comprehensible (the distance between Semitic languages is very short, a corrollary of the stability thanks to the triplet of consonnants). And it

01:22:08 mircea_popescu: is wasy for a Punic speaker to progressively become an Arabic speaker, since he already knows 80-90% of the vocabulary.

01:22:11 mircea_popescu: This also gives some credibility to the thesis that was popping up in the 19th century that the North African Jews had a Phoenician origin (or that the difference between Canaanite and Jew before the rabbinical period was not very pronounced for p

01:22:17 mircea_popescu: ( http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook.htm, taleb's article)

01:26:51 BingoBoingo: !up aadeseye

01:26:51 assbot: Voicing aadeseye for 30 minutes.

01:26:57 BingoBoingo: !up vcorem

01:26:57 assbot: Voicing vcorem for 30 minutes.

01:27:38 mircea_popescu: so BingoBoingo, war may simply be that : dating.

01:27:58 kakobrekla: 85 days

01:28:14 mircea_popescu: who are the hillbillies going to support ? bigus dickus, the roman bureaucrat ?

01:28:20 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course it is. Diplomacy is also dating. Governance is a different thing though. Marriage.

01:28:21 mircea_popescu: jesus, the local nut ?

01:28:32 BingoBoingo: Usually the local nut.

01:28:36 mircea_popescu: putin the redbeard, the norwegian rapist cum invader ?

01:28:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1164 @ 0.00094851 = 1.1041 BTC [-]

01:28:46 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ty!

01:29:10 mircea_popescu: do you also sleep ?

01:29:39 mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/embed/zPGb4STRfKw << bigus dickus

01:29:41 BingoBoingo: The hill billies always support the local nut, or the regional nut they can identify with

01:29:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00094837 = 10.5269 BTC [-]

01:32:14 kakobrekla: 90 if you include the time from closing to resolution

01:32:37 kakobrekla: ;;ud sleep

01:32:37 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sleep | You have been awake for 18 hours and are now viewing this useless definition of sleep. You are very tired and your brain is not functioning at its ...

01:33:02 kakobrekla: srsly someone planted that there eh

01:33:16 kakobrekla: next time ill rather google.

01:34:23 BingoBoingo: The wife is called Incontientia

01:34:42 mircea_popescu: incontinentia buttocks

01:34:53 BingoBoingo: Lol phrasing

01:35:48 BingoBoingo: .bait

01:35:50 ozbot: http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8732uiP5v1r6bw5mo1_1280.png

01:37:04 BingoBoingo: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20810638,00.html

01:37:05 ozbot: Justin Bieber Detained by Customs at Los Angeles Airport - Crime & Courts, Justin Bieber : People.co

01:37:15 mircea_popescu: shot ruined by panties srsly.

01:38:02 random_cat: wut benkay

01:38:34 BingoBoingo: Yeah, in other news, elmo acquitted http://gawker.com/ex-elmo-voice-actor-kevin-clash-cleared-of-sexual-abuse-1567240733

01:40:06 mircea_popescu: im sure the practicak difference between acquittal and conviction is less than the difference between his life pre and post that nonsense.

01:40:58 BingoBoingo: For sure

01:41:04 BingoBoingo: In still continued news http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/24/us/colorado-marijuana-fourth-graders/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29

01:45:55 BingoBoingo: Also a case of If you can You must http://gawker.com/school-agrees-to-stop-pumping-kids-full-of-mountain-dew-1567173577

02:01:13 BingoBoingo: !up jborkl_

02:01:13 assbot: Voicing jborkl_ without time-limit.

02:02:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00094776 = 10.5201 BTC [-] {2}

02:05:21 mircea_popescu: http://girls.twistys.com/preview/dailyupdates/2014/04/20/ryanryans-31565/images/full/03.jpg

02:05:26 mircea_popescu: check out that awful titjob

02:08:16 ThickAsThieves: 0O

02:10:59 BingoBoingo: That's like liver and stomach boobs. Missed the chest by quite a bit

02:11:48 BingoBoingo: Chicago http://deadspin.com/the-cubs-400-pound-wrigley-cake-is-sitting-in-a-dumpste-1567177257

02:13:27 ThickAsThieves: nonsensical derpitude

02:13:30 BingoBoingo: Also the left hand path http://regressing.deadspin.com/can-you-predict-if-your-kid-will-throw-left-handed-1552111458/+kylenw

02:13:51 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Whatever, you aren't getting any of my insider info.

02:16:04 ThickAsThieves: "he researchers indeed discovered that left-handedness, like schizophrenia, was highly associated with being conceived in May or June " yknow this has always been my theory of how zodiac traits were started

02:16:23 BingoBoingo: I also swear deadspin might be the only Gawker enterprise worth saving.

02:16:54 ThickAsThieves: seasonal effects on mother, child, and the people influencing the child

02:17:49 BingoBoingo: Eh, I'm right handed but left eye dominant. Sometimes I'm clumsy, but that is usually just distilled rather than beyond the grave spirits at work.

02:17:53 ThickAsThieves: also in my own experience many of the crazies i met that are also smart are left-handed

02:18:12 cazalla: BingoBoingo: interesting article - my son is 14 weeks ATM, is favouring his left hand when grabbing for things yet no left handers in my family although my father is schizophrenic as was my grandfather and my uncle

02:18:41 BingoBoingo: cazalla: Well, teach him to throw a baseball and save his economic future.

02:18:44 ThickAsThieves: my brother favored his left hand but my dad basically "corrected" him out of it

02:19:04 mircea_popescu: speaking of may and june, check this shit out :

02:19:08 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/804/obama-will-mention-bitcoin-before-2015/#c2849

02:19:10 ozbot: BitBet - Obama will mention Bitcoin before 2015

02:19:18 mircea_popescu: the may-june-july hole

02:19:44 Duffer1: in case anyone has some scorn they need to let out https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581995.0

02:19:48 Duffer1: Adeally

02:20:09 cazalla: mircea_popescu: didn't Obama already mention it last year albeit off the cuff remark questioning he needed to worry about it or not

02:20:16 ThickAsThieves: do those stats also conveniently map to bubbles?

02:20:17 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: What I gather is that SEO spammers can't spec interesting bets

02:20:19 cazalla: if*

02:20:29 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves maybe. was there a bubble last summer ?

02:20:37 ThickAsThieves: april

02:20:44 BingoBoingo: No, last summer was a slump

02:21:04 ThickAsThieves: maybe it's an indicator!

02:21:10 BingoBoingo: $100-80 until the rally to the millenial value

02:21:13 ThickAsThieves: correlation = causation!

02:22:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: The discussion usually centers around ?politeness?, because the mimics don?t really have the intellectual ability to identify, nor the ethical fiber to enunciate the real problem << reminds me:

02:22:10 ThickAsThieves: i think low bet submissions being topical is enough to change the tide

02:22:23 asciilifeform: paging herr naggum!

02:22:24 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3243007932071437@naggum.no.html

02:22:25 ozbot: Re: Bohr's way - Naggum cll archive

02:22:30 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244958379944187@naggum.no.html

02:22:31 ozbot: Re: Difference between LISP and C++ - Naggum cll archive

02:23:03 asciilifeform: (ignore the thread titles, these were strictly psychiatric ruminations, nothing to do with programming computer)

02:23:13 ThickAsThieves: ascii thats good stuff

02:23:15 ThickAsThieves: "It has been my experience that it is strongly related to competence, but

02:23:15 ThickAsThieves: competence is related to some method of measurement of your success at

02:23:15 ThickAsThieves: what you try to do. If you work in a field where you cannot distinguish

02:23:15 ThickAsThieves: between good or bad, where everything is someone's "personal opinion" and

02:23:15 ThickAsThieves: nobody has any right answers, that just /has/ to be destructive for your

02:23:15 ThickAsThieves: self-confidence. "

02:23:28 ThickAsThieves: basically my epitaph in marketing industry

02:24:25 cazalla: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/wolff/2013/10/27/ceos-are-often-clueless-about-technology/3182203/ so Obama aware of Bitcoin in October of last year, wonder if that increases odds of meeting bet criteria

02:24:54 BingoBoingo: The most exciting treatise on politics Gawker has ever hosted http://deadspin.com/pine-tar-should-be-fully-legal-and-baseball-is-still-f-1567100538

02:26:42 ThickAsThieves: "The reason we didn't like it was because it was so 'in your face.' If he had been a little more discreet with it nothing would have ever been said."

02:26:43 ThickAsThieves: lol

02:26:56 BingoBoingo: Truth

02:27:20 BingoBoingo: Everything is legal so long as you wait until the contest is over to flaunt it

02:27:33 ThickAsThieves: even the commenters that think they get it don't

02:27:42 ThickAsThieves: "Totally agree that it should be legal. In the mean time, Pineda really just needs to get better at this. I mean, he should realize that he is being watched after the last incident, there has to be a better place to put pine tar than on your neck. Just learn to cheat better."

02:28:21 ThickAsThieves: everyone talking about how he should have cheated

02:28:27 ThickAsThieves: not whether

02:28:40 BingoBoingo: I mean the writer cam to the wrong conclusion. It should still stay "banned" but discretion is the first step towards sophistication.

02:29:11 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, ThickAsThieves, other players of baseball - is the tar considered a cheat because it gives actual advantage? or merely not part of the regulation game?

02:29:24 ThickAsThieves: assimilate or eliminate is my motto

02:29:31 ThickAsThieves: if elimination is not possible,

02:29:36 ThickAsThieves: assimilation is mandatory

02:30:06 ThickAsThieves: as in, they obv cant totally stop people from using it

02:30:11 ThickAsThieves: therefore allow them to use it

02:30:22 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tar for pitchers is considered a forbiden necessity. For batters it is completely acceptable.

02:30:28 BingoBoingo: Also http://deadspin.com/does-your-favorite-team-suck-at-keeping-an-efficient-pa-1567366582

02:30:34 asciilifeform: elaborate on the 'forbidden necessity'

02:30:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3482 @ 0.00094846 = 3.3025 BTC [+] {2}

02:30:55 asciilifeform: similar to, say, steroids?

02:31:06 ThickAsThieves: basically people are superstitious that picthers can do magical things when using tar

02:31:08 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's use is necessary to master the craft, but exposing it is a faux pas.

02:31:24 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Different from steroids in that the results are more quantifiable.

02:31:30 ThickAsThieves: pitchers argue its only to prevent totally losing the ball into ttghe crowd

02:31:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3818 @ 0.00095492 = 3.6459 BTC [+]

02:32:18 ThickAsThieves: the answer is probly in the middle

02:32:32 ThickAsThieves: baseball is very traditional though

02:32:56 BingoBoingo: Steroids do little in baseball beyond decreasing the time to recover from injury and maybe adding a bit of power. Doctoring a ball though is nearly essential for a pitcher to excel.

02:34:05 BingoBoingo: Basically there are reasons it is mostly aging hitters taking steroids, but every pitcher is doctoring the ball.

02:35:10 ThickAsThieves: has anyone done useful research about pitching with tar?

02:35:22 BingoBoingo: (This sidesteps the part where all of the good batters have ADHD diagnoses because amphetamines are the best performance enhancer for a batter)

02:35:37 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Not for your budget.

02:35:45 ThickAsThieves: ?

02:35:50 ThickAsThieves: my budget?

02:35:52 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what kind of diagnoses do, e.g. marathon runners get? anemia?

02:36:20 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes. Marathoners get anemia. Hockey players get various autoimmune diagnoses.

02:36:36 BingoBoingo: To justify constant anti-inflammatory drugs

02:36:41 asciilifeform: lol

02:36:54 asciilifeform: what disease should one contract as, say, chess player ?

02:37:08 BingoBoingo: That probably would be ADHD again.

02:37:28 BingoBoingo: And is the reason many high level players don't want to see olympic chess.

02:37:47 asciilifeform: i thought this was because FIDE wanted to ban coffee

02:37:54 BingoBoingo: That too.

02:37:58 mircea_popescu: the se;f confidence thing sounds just like greenspun's problem

02:38:00 asciilifeform: (who'll play after this!?)

02:38:17 BingoBoingo: But the distinction between leaded and unleaded coffee isn't caffinated vs. decaf.

02:38:27 mircea_popescu: cazalla well, if he had or hadn't, still has to be in bet interval. wasn't like a "first time" or anything

02:38:34 asciilifeform: leaded coffee!

02:38:54 ThickAsThieves: lol forumite says to me "What would it possibly take for you to remove the negative trust you left me?"

02:39:05 BingoBoingo: It was rumored that in baseball clubhouses leaded vs. unleaded was how they refered to amphetamine spiked coffee

02:39:17 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what does tar do ?

02:39:40 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It affects grip and the aerodynamics of the ball.

02:40:26 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: And this is baseball so there are nearly as many balls spent in the game as outs.

02:40:26 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: amphetamine isn't magic. see:

02:40:28 asciilifeform: http://yarchive.net/med/nootropics.html

02:40:29 ozbot: Nootropics ("smart drugs") (Steven B. Harris, M.D.)

02:40:39 asciilifeform: mandatory reading for the 'better living through chemistry' aficionados.

02:40:47 mircea_popescu: this is what, tar like on their hands ? like oil ?

02:40:53 asciilifeform: tldr - engineering tradeoffs of self-medication

02:40:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00094732 = 9.9469 BTC [-]

02:42:29 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Pine tar. So the sticky stuff pine leaks basically. Batters use it to not throw the bat into the crowd. Pitchers use it to add precision to the point they release the ball.

02:42:31 ThickAsThieves: it's sticky

02:42:48 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Those exist indeed.

02:42:53 mircea_popescu: oic

02:43:04 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: analogous to flying jet on 'afterburner'

02:43:32 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Or rocket with boosters. The sauce only provides benefits for so long.

02:43:50 mircea_popescu: afterburners are a pain in most situations tho. much less precision

02:44:41 BingoBoingo: Well afterburners is amphetamine. Pine tar is whatever makes a plane more responsive, engineered instability or whatever

02:44:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0698999 = 0.3495 BTC [+]

02:45:11 mircea_popescu: amusingly, i think pine tar is... amphetamine

02:45:31 mircea_popescu: funny how that wraps.

02:46:00 asciilifeform: i can hardly think of pine tar without tasting in my head that crap the greeks drink.

02:46:49 BingoBoingo: Well, it is not an incredibly simple mapping.

02:47:27 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but the one thing that makes the plane "more responsive" is spiking the pilot.

02:47:52 BingoBoingo: Of course. It is better though if both the pilot and plane are spiked.

02:48:32 asciilifeform: one can easily think of the design boundaries here (spiked fellow in ww1 sopwith, vs 'clean' one in modern jet)

02:48:56 asciilifeform: basic boojum here is, however, 'first ecstacy, then laundry'

02:49:03 BingoBoingo: Pine tar is spiking the plane (The F-16, a wily old pitcher) amphetamine is spiking the pilot (B-2 crews, Barry Bonds)

02:49:07 asciilifeform: as described by steve harris

02:49:14 BingoBoingo: lol

02:53:08 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Your link on nootropics reminds me of why the alcohol/caffine combination is my prefered and only regular combination from that toolset.

02:53:26 mircea_popescu: "If you /are/ the majority and I am in the minority, how could you possibly believe that I have not already and many years ago figured out exactly how you guys work? If you had the brain to do it, this would be a grave insult, but you do not think ahead. You do in fact not think at all, because the things you say can only be uttered by a mind closed shut long ago."

02:53:29 mircea_popescu: lelz

02:54:12 BingoBoingo: The only big error with the link is that nicotine is not *cholinergic* at all

02:54:22 BingoBoingo: Nicotine is nicotinic

02:54:49 BingoBoingo: Works on its own subset of the acetycholine responsive system while ignoring others.

02:54:55 asciilifeform: ;;google nicotinic acetylcholine receptor

02:54:56 gribble: Nicotinic acetylcholine receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinic_acetylcholine_receptor; Acetylcholine receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine_receptor; Nicotinic agonist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinic_agonist

02:55:42 asciilifeform: pediwikia will have to suffice for now

02:55:57 BingoBoingo: And the literature reveals nicotine excites some, but not all cholinergic receptors.

02:56:05 asciilifeform: sure

02:56:30 *: asciilifeform flashbacks to old day job

02:56:31 mircea_popescu: no he has a point, calling it cholinergic is a ridiculous approximation.

02:56:36 mircea_popescu: might as well call busses "avionic"

02:56:40 asciilifeform: lul

02:56:48 mircea_popescu: well... they're kinda similar.

02:57:22 asciilifeform: the little plane that goes to timis. from germany is astoundingly bus-like.

02:57:24 BingoBoingo: Well, think of dopamine (which the pharmacologically illerterate posit fuels all addiction)

02:58:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.069975 = 0.4199 BTC [+] {2}

02:58:14 BingoBoingo: There are different dopamine agonists and antagonists that don't all hit the same types of dopamine receptors

02:58:58 mircea_popescu: dude i love this chan. i shall now write yet another great fraudsters article on the basis of shit i ran into here.

02:59:02 BingoBoingo: And of the major addictive drugs of abuse only cocaine and amphetamines hit any type of dopamine receptor primarily

02:59:13 mircea_popescu: and i'm not gonna give stan any more credit than i gave benkay either

02:59:34 asciilifeform: one of the things i used to do is model action of oximes (as an antidote to anticholinergics)

02:59:42 BingoBoingo: If dopamine for its own sake was the desired effect, junkies would skip heroin and just eat L-DOPA and broadbreans

03:00:00 asciilifeform: and this always gave me sad thoughts about how a very similar mechanism could probably be used to zap 'tolerance' to, e.g. caffeine

03:00:15 asciilifeform: but It Would Be Wrong (TM)

03:00:44 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And I sat through literally 2/3rds of the PharmD curiculumn, half of it twice. But as a TA so I get no credit for having done such a thing.

03:00:50 asciilifeform: eat L-DOPA and broadbreans << nope. kinetics are 90% of the fun

03:00:54 asciilifeform: as you probably know.

03:01:14 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Kinetics are huge.

03:01:19 asciilifeform: consider why cocainistas snort, inject - never eat

03:01:32 BingoBoingo: Poor first pass metabolism

03:01:44 BingoBoingo: isn't economical to eat.

03:02:16 BingoBoingo: With L-Dopa the Blood Brain Barrier plays a role, but convulsions play a bigger one

03:03:37 BingoBoingo: Nicotine is the perfect model of an addictive drug because tremendous excess is tolerated by the peripheral neurons, but its absence after tolerance raises holy fucking hell.

03:04:08 mircea_popescu: holy fucking hell my foot.

03:04:19 mircea_popescu: it raises the most minor of inconveniences conceivable.

03:04:36 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In the accultured. As opposed to the occasional

03:04:59 mircea_popescu: people just conveniently pretend like their experiences matter out of all proportion.

03:05:07 BingoBoingo: Sure.

03:05:19 mircea_popescu: do an experiment where you get shocked at a modest 48 volts at random intervals on average 8 times a second.

03:05:27 mircea_popescu: for you know, nine weeks.

03:05:39 BingoBoingo: Imma prolly miss the shocks.

03:05:46 asciilifeform: you can buy a convenient instrument for this.

03:05:47 mircea_popescu: in your teeth.

03:05:51 asciilifeform: at dog shops

03:06:00 mircea_popescu: now that's an inconvenience. not fucking nicotine deprivation.

03:06:24 asciilifeform: teeth? what'd you have? the fabled 'radio amalgam' ?

03:06:34 mircea_popescu: just sayin'.

03:06:49 mircea_popescu: get a special bed rigged where you get pricked with a pin. all the time. somewhere.

03:07:01 BingoBoingo: Well, you have to consider what receptor is involved at the intersection of skeletal muscle and the neuro

03:07:15 mircea_popescu: or forget that even. just a sm

03:07:30 mircea_popescu: simple programme of... load crates 16 hours a day. every day.

03:07:36 mircea_popescu: or dig ditches or w/e.

03:08:08 BingoBoingo: Now we're getting to common ground

03:08:34 mircea_popescu: after six weeks of that, the choice is never smoke again and never have to crate it up again

03:08:36 mircea_popescu: or both.

03:08:42 mircea_popescu: suddenly the hot fucking hell is like...

03:08:58 BingoBoingo: 16 hours of lifting arbitrary things about nicotine cessation for the habituated

03:09:23 mircea_popescu: arbitrary things over 30lbs

03:10:13 BingoBoingo: Over 15lbs even, if we are going arbitrary and 16 hours, 5-15 lbs, The unpredictability of load has value.

03:10:41 mircea_popescu: 30 to 60.

03:10:47 mircea_popescu: good enough

03:11:53 BingoBoingo: Keep in mind my experiences prolly don't map onto to many others. I'm missing 1/2 to 3/4 the D2 receptors most people have in the general population)

03:12:19 mircea_popescu: anyway. i'm kinda up to here with the smoking addiction thing. i've been smoking since ~16. that's two decades ago. i still smoke, i average a pack a month. prolly less these days. it takes all the willpower of a tomato as far as i can tell, it's never bothered me.

03:12:36 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: I'm missing 1/2 to 3/4 the D2 receptors << where'd you misplace them?

03:12:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bad divorce.

03:12:48 asciilifeform: lol

03:13:08 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Back when 23andme made medical declarations I spit in a tube. Apparently I am part A-Rab

03:14:17 BingoBoingo: I guess because the gene was TAQ something or other

03:14:30 asciilifeform: my first guess was MPTP.

03:14:37 BingoBoingo: Nah

03:15:06 asciilifeform: ;;google Barry Kidston MPTP

03:15:07 gribble: MPTP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPTP; Opiophilia: The Frozen Addicts: A Cautionary Tale: http://opiophilia.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-frozen-addicts-cautionary-tale.html; Heroin, MPTP, and the key to Parkinson's Disease - Everything2.com: http://everything2.com/title/Heroin%252C+MPTP%252C+and+the+key+to+Parkinson%2527s+Disease

03:15:58 BingoBoingo: I'm familiar with MPTP induced parkinsons from reading.

03:16:12 asciilifeform: better than from practice!

03:16:25 BingoBoingo: Parkinsons is more a D-1 and D-3 thing though.

03:16:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.07 = 0.63 BTC [+] {2}

03:17:13 BingoBoingo: I have an admitedly odd neurology. I throw a baseball right handed but have to shoot the rifle left handed.

03:19:43 BingoBoingo: My left eye tremendously overpowers the right, but my right hand tremendously has dexterity over the left.

03:21:27 BingoBoingo: In practice this works great for watching porn because different halves of my brain can be watching porn vs. jacking me off, a perfect stranger

03:22:09 asciilifeform: wetware DMA ?

03:22:24 BingoBoingo: More like SCSI.

03:22:30 asciilifeform: lol

03:22:37 BingoBoingo: Terminators and all

03:22:45 asciilifeform: this has potential for good sf story mindfuck

03:23:06 asciilifeform: folks in the Dark Future of Hello Kitty (TM) splitting their brain, so they can literally (in their head) fuck themselves.

03:23:09 BingoBoingo: I also throw a bowling ball with alternating hands given situations favorable to one side or the other's strengths

03:24:18 BingoBoingo: The only people IRL on OL with similar issues were notorious epileptics so I guess being more functional than that is a plus.

03:25:40 BingoBoingo: For all I actually know maybe I am more addicted to menthol than nicotine

03:26:36 asciilifeform: shouldn't be hard to find out which, no?

03:26:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.512005 = 1.024 BTC [-] {2}

03:27:07 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Especially hard since 23andme conceded medicine to MObama

03:27:24 BingoBoingo: The beautiful thing is this doesn't much matter.

03:27:40 asciilifeform: i meant, by taking only one and see what happens

03:28:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 481 @ 0.00444549 = 2.1383 BTC [-] {14}

03:28:46 BingoBoingo: There are some practical restrictions. Like my preference for menthol cigarettes.

03:29:17 BingoBoingo: Next thing you know I will forsake N.W.A. for Sheryl Crow

03:30:47 BingoBoingo: Also I can't threaten incapacitating my self that much lest BTC/AtC goes to hell

03:31:11 asciilifeform: where's it now?

03:32:59 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It is well within the specs I set when I raped herbi and his wife's future.

03:33:14 BingoBoingo: Between 100 and 200 satoshis

03:33:22 asciilifeform: i now confess that i missed what was herbi and wife

03:33:51 asciilifeform: some bozo invested his fortune in atc ?!?

03:33:55 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The conversation is attached to here http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/04/24/my-role-in-s-mpif/

03:34:14 BingoBoingo: He invested little. It seemed to be a small portion of his anything.

03:34:31 asciilifeform: so how'd this constitute a zapping of future?

03:34:36 BingoBoingo: You were at points in the conversation.

03:34:41 asciilifeform: lol i was wasnt i

03:34:50 asciilifeform: prob. on autopilot

03:34:58 BingoBoingo: Read on, you saw it the first time.

03:35:53 BingoBoingo: He sought to seed microstructures, but every order he entered was like my betting green in roulette and hitting.

03:36:19 asciilifeform: lel

03:36:37 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: It is well within the specs I set when I raped herbi and his wife's future. << dude srsly.

03:36:44 mircea_popescu: suppose you actually do something like that one day.

03:36:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.0742218 = 0.1484 BTC [-]

03:37:01 mircea_popescu: what are you going to say, "herp", because you already used the proper expression in april 2014 ?

03:37:13 mircea_popescu: gotta save yourself some cake.

03:37:36 asciilifeform: 'dynamic range'

03:37:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0325 = 0.1625 BTC [-] {2}

03:38:22 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Prolly. Cake comes and goes. I might hammer out consistent gains, but probably never again over a bid-ask pread of 4 times

03:38:41 BingoBoingo: (spread so deep it lost a consanant)

03:41:10 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i re-read that thing. maybe it'd make sense to me with strong drink.

03:41:23 asciilifeform: as it is i'm tuned to wrong frequency, perhaps

03:41:27 benkay: ;;later tell decimation i did indeed and would be pleased to help you do the same although i'm sure you can figure it out

03:41:28 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:42:19 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well I mentioned this in another post, but it goes back to baseball. Who carries half of a ptcher's success and why?

03:43:08 *: asciilifeform reviews piece on baseball in '93 issue of 'наука и жизнь'

03:43:56 *: asciilifeform lives in usa since '92 and needs to do this

03:44:11 BingoBoingo: Normally the answer is the catcher calling pitches, as a great catcher is a slightly better source of entropy than the batter

03:45:30 BingoBoingo: This exists as an exact why for bitches loving Yadier Molina.

03:46:50 BingoBoingo: Though on the same team and Albert Pujols becoming a legend first, this is the exact machanism that made Pujols fungible with Carlos Beltran et al. while Molina was and is irreplaceable.

03:47:24 asciilifeform: anyone here other than BingoBoingo - gets this?

03:48:08 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo works as scholar of sport? a referee?

03:48:30 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Consider the game of chess vs. the game of artillery.

03:49:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [+]

03:49:22 BingoBoingo: In chess there is a tremendous advantage to anticipating lines your opponent might try to put forth.

03:49:49 BingoBoingo: Where as in artillery the goal is to hit the target first.

03:49:51 asciilifeform: vs where?

03:50:39 BingoBoingo: Well, a pitcher to get an out either has to throw three strikes or get the hitter to put the ball in a location favorable to one of their fielders.

03:50:55 BingoBoingo: Multiple attempts are a necessity

03:51:05 BingoBoingo: No less than three.

03:51:21 BingoBoingo: Vs. artillery where the opponent merely needs to hit you once

03:51:48 asciilifeform: perhaps in msdos game 'scorched earth', where each side gets one cannon.

03:52:27 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Actually I am thinking the Apple II version, but yes, that artillery game

03:53:46 benkay: <mircea_popescu> and i'm not gonna give stan any more credit than i gave benkay either << wot ch2 omission smarted

03:53:58 BingoBoingo: Otherwise we could suppose infinite shitty alternate artillery games where one side produces a grunt who climbs a hill and stabs the cannon to death.

03:54:03 mircea_popescu: benkay hm ?

03:54:22 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'paratrooper'

03:54:42 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: lol.

03:54:42 asciilifeform: http://image.dosgamesarchive.com/screenshots/paratrooper.gif

03:54:44 benkay: mircea_popescu: dun think i got any credit for popping the recent sybils.

03:55:07 mircea_popescu: no credit for you!

03:55:16 benkay: used to it

03:55:20 benkay: 's why i'm in mgmt these days

03:55:53 benkay: (marginally)

03:56:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Reminds me of a conundrum. Every US Infantry officer gets the chance at ranger school after graduation, but many officers deployed to ostentiably infantry assignments will not be infantry officers.

03:58:23 BingoBoingo: Afghanistan fucks all empires

03:58:31 BingoBoingo: Because Italy

03:59:53 BingoBoingo: By Italy I mean classic Italy, anyone born more than two barns from you and your goats is a foreigner

04:04:53 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If you want a shortcut to understanding baseball the 2011 world series game six and 2012 StL vs. Washington NLDS game five paired with the 2013 NLCS makes a nice summary of the entire contemporary game

04:06:06 BingoBoingo: Narrative: Innexplicable offense, still moar inexplicable offense, dissapointement by regression to the mean.

04:07:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00094742 = 13.0744 BTC [+] {3}

04:07:33 BingoBoingo: benkay: Am I representing 'Murican infatuation with baseball fairly?

04:08:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.03201 = 0.3201 BTC [-]

04:11:07 BingoBoingo: Poor assbot, the BTC-TC collapse has kept it so quiet

04:12:08 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker

04:12:10 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 469.95, Best ask: 469.96, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 469.96, 24 hour volume: 13964.55874092, 24 hour low: 469.96, 24 hour high: 505.0, 24 hour vwap: 487.558581229

04:12:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0703 = 0.3515 BTC [+]

04:12:26 ThickAsThieves: the sky, it's at my feet!

04:13:52 benkay: BingoBoingo: couldn't say i'm a rebel cascadian hiding in the hills

04:14:09 benkay: BingoBoingo: were we to lay out diamonds we'd get insta-zapped by drones

04:14:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0704 = 0.1408 BTC [+]

04:16:50 benkay: so uh amazon

04:17:08 BingoBoingo: benkay: Well befor I realized my mammal vexation was an actual mouse what remedies did I Spz?

04:17:10 benkay: oh wizards of high finance and running companies - what the fuck is up with amazon?

04:17:36 benkay: pardon, BingoBoingo ?

04:17:38 BingoBoingo: benkay: Amazon burns all the capital, because growth.

04:17:50 benkay: it can't be that simple

04:17:55 BingoBoingo: benkay: May be a couple logs ago

04:18:19 benkay: BingoBoingo: moisin, do i recall?

04:18:58 BingoBoingo: benkay: Mosin was one option, some sks variant was another with the particular variant left in the air, so long as it wasn't chinese

04:19:15 benkay: rifles vs drones?

04:19:55 BingoBoingo: Nah, vs. "mice"

04:20:11 BingoBoingo: Shoe took care of "mice" which was an actual mouse

04:20:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 19 @ 0.0075 = 0.1425 BTC [+]

04:20:34 BingoBoingo: Bitch to scrape off of the floor, but... learning

04:21:35 benkay: BingoBoingo: is amazon burning the capital? the party line is that they're reinvesting it.

04:22:24 benkay: i haven't looked at the actual books but i'm imagining that each spend on one side is balanced by an acquisition on the other. maybe just of engineering time, but w/e.

04:22:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0715 = 0.286 BTC [+]

04:24:51 BingoBoingo: benkay: As best as I can tell with Amazon is that they have done nothing other than reinvest in their history. Like the Poker Player who doubled down 21 times in row and won.

04:33:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0321 = 0.321 BTC [+]

04:37:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 24 @ 0.50897936 = 12.2155 BTC [-] {8}

04:39:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.0009493 = 22.8781 BTC [+] {3}

04:41:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0715 = 0.3575 BTC [+]

04:44:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.071999 = 2.016 BTC [+]

04:46:51 BingoBoingo: http://io9.com/wwii-propaganda-billboards-from-the-united-states-secre-1567145725

04:46:51 ozbot: WWII Propaganda Billboards From The United States' Secret Atomic City

04:47:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.071999 = 0.216 BTC [+]

04:48:57 BingoBoingo: Mysteries I want in a blog post, Benkay, why did you ever stop trolling me after my return to -assets

04:49:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.071999 = 0.144 BTC [+]

04:50:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 22 @ 0.0075 = 0.165 BTC [+]

04:54:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00095061 = 0.9506 BTC [+]

04:55:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00094761 = 12.9823 BTC [-] {2}

05:06:25 benkay: ;;rate decimation 1 a fellow, i reckon.

05:06:26 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user decimation has been recorded.

05:06:47 benkay: BingoBoingo: what, you want me to perpetuate the mystery in a blog post or three? ;)

05:06:51 benkay: ;;seen blackwhite

05:06:51 gribble: blackwhite was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 1 day, 3 hours, and 55 seconds ago: <blackwhite> hola peeps

05:09:11 decimation: Why thank you sir

05:09:17 benkay: BingoBoingo: a few reasons.

05:09:35 decimation: ;;rate decimation 1 gave me a hand

05:09:36 gribble: Error: You cannot rate yourself.

05:09:54 decimation: ;;rate benkay 1 gave me a hand

05:09:55 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user benkay has been recorded.

05:09:58 decimation: I missed ;)

05:10:06 benkay: misfire!

05:10:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.500001 BTC [-]

05:10:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 107 @ 0.00464986 = 0.4975 BTC [-] {3}

05:10:31 benkay: a) i don't actually troll.

05:10:32 benkay: b)

05:10:52 benkay: b) you've got stuff 'twixt your ears that'll spill more easily if we're on good terms than ill.

05:11:25 benkay: c) make friends not enemies?

05:11:44 benkay: that's the short of it, BingoBoingo

05:12:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.500001 = 1.5 BTC [-]

05:13:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5000001 BTC [-]

05:13:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 28 @ 0.00468173 = 0.1311 BTC [+] {3}

05:15:24 decimation: http://www.profitconfidential.com/real-estate-market/dead-cat-bounce-housing-market/

05:15:25 ozbot: Dead-Cat Bounce Over for the Housing Market?

05:15:33 decimation: In the first quarter of 2014, mortgage originations at Citigroup Inc. (NYSE/C) declined 71% from the same period a year ago. The bank issued $5.2 billion in mortgages in the first quarter of 2014, compared to $8.3 billion in the previous quarter and $18.0 billion in the first quarter of 2013. (Source: Citigroup Inc. web site, last accessed April 14, 2014.)

05:16:16 decimation: but the "recovery" is great guys, just some snow, no problems here

05:16:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.0009488 = 3.7003 BTC [+]

05:18:29 benkay: nice to have you back, decimation :)

05:19:40 benkay: i think it's time to go all cash, neh?

05:19:52 benkay: or at least balance hard in that direction.

05:19:54 decimation: re: amazon, I've heard it's a tough life working there. Look at the glassdoor reviews: they cheapskate on everything. Yeah, the salary is okay, but you better enjoy being on call

05:20:25 decimation: Well, of course cash sucks because no return, and inflation is biting at your heels

05:20:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16060 @ 0.00095071 = 15.2684 BTC [+] {3}

05:20:44 decimation: I suspect a large crash would signal another leg up for bitcoin though

05:23:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.0047091 = 0.3014 BTC [+] {2}

05:24:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14550 @ 0.00094757 = 13.7871 BTC [-] {3}

05:35:43 benkay: kinda hoping to get the tax situation dialed before btc legs up

05:36:34 decimation: yeah you have to lock in those losses

05:36:42 benkay: asciilifeform: thanks for those naggum links.

05:36:52 benkay: decimation: ugh don't talk like that

05:40:55 benkay: decimation: if i burn all my bridges here, i'm moving up to seattle and working in the server mines for a year to reestablish my capital base.

05:42:57 decimation: heh well that's a plan I guess. It's honest work at least, keeping the internet goblins at bay

05:43:28 benkay: honest work

05:43:58 benkay: shipping finely spun plastic widgets that should never have been made to the herds who should never have been granted credit in the first place

05:44:04 benkay: honestly?

05:44:44 benkay: in one way or another i've been standing by and squirting grease on the thing since i was a bairn.

05:46:01 decimation: well, people "need" "their" "stuff"

05:46:27 benkay: i gotta decouple, man.

05:46:49 benkay: get out of this shithole somehow or make it tolerable until the us comes crashing down about my ears.

05:49:48 decimation: http://time.com/2742/nearly-half-of-america-lives-paycheck-to-paycheck/

05:49:50 ozbot: Nearly Half of America Lives Paycheck-to-Paycheck - TIME

05:50:05 decimation: The CFED calls these folks ?liquid asset poor,? and its report finds that 44% of Americans are living with less than $5,887 in savings for a family of four. The plight of these folks is compounded by the fact that the recession ravaged many Americans? credit scores to the point that now 56% percent of us have subprime credit.

05:51:15 decimation: It's hard to see how amazon is going to keep exponential growth selling crap to indebted peasants

05:52:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.49001 BTC [-]

05:52:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00434629 = 0.2173 BTC [-] {3}

05:52:45 Apocalyptic: amazon is not the only one with this business model

05:52:48 Apocalyptic: and far from it

05:53:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.0009513 = 18.8357 BTC [+] {2}

05:56:01 decimation: presuming that only %46 of Americans can qualify for a mortgage, it seems likely that a subset of that %46 will end up owning %100 of the homes

06:00:03 decimation: ;;later tell mircea_popescu how does the idea of the Punishment Gazette interact with the common law idea of corporate personhood? When you are wronged by an idiot employee, is it he who takes the hit on the WoT or his employer?

06:00:03 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:00:45 mircea_popescu: decimation depends on the reaction of the corporation. if they fire him, him. if they don't, both.

06:01:31 decimation: This reaction being fully played for everyone in the WoT to judge, of course

06:03:13 mircea_popescu: well yes.

06:03:46 mircea_popescu: for instance recently : gigaom's atrociously mendacious coverage of bitcoin has put him on my blacklist.

06:03:57 mircea_popescu: he's a sort of max keiser, as far as i'm concerned.

06:04:23 decimation: one can see a business opportunity: summarize the gazette in a trustworthy manner, like a monk-scribe and not like a "journalist"

06:04:43 mircea_popescu: sure. it's one of the principal tasks mpoe-pr had

06:10:57 decimation: ;;rate hanbot 1 freely published timely advice which triggered my exit from btct.co

06:10:58 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user hanbot has been recorded.

06:11:42 decimation: ;;rate mircea_popescu 1 publishes mentally stimulating content

06:11:43 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.

06:12:11 decimation: and with that g'night

06:15:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-scum/ here, that is what you made me do.

06:15:48 mircea_popescu: ten thousand fucking words.

06:19:39 wywialm: good morning everyone

06:20:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11520 @ 0.00095192 = 10.9661 BTC [+] {2}

06:20:38 Apocalyptic: morning

06:23:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SF1] 400 @ 0.00084218 = 0.3369 BTC [+] {3}

06:24:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49001 = 0.98 BTC [-]

06:25:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.0009527 = 4.0966 BTC [+]

06:28:08 fluffypony: Apocalyptic: morning

06:28:11 fluffypony: wywialm: morning

06:32:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.4900067 = 1.47 BTC [-] {2}

06:36:10 fluffypony: that Dunne Capital UK exchange-slash-casino thread got pretty hilarious (https://bitcointa.lk/threads/xcp-ipo-announcement-dunnecapital-ltd-uk-bitcoin-exchange-and-a-casino.304299/page-2)

06:37:10 fluffypony: I loved the comment by theMiracle - "Protip 4 U 2: Take it slow. Start off by snagging a few extra newspapers from a vending machine when u pay for one. Practice stealing rolls of toilet paper from public restrooms. Get the hang of the basics -- then you can come back to looting bitcoiners."

06:37:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00445 = 0.445 BTC [+]

06:41:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.032 = 0.128 BTC [-]

06:41:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0425 = 0.1275 BTC [+]

06:46:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10032 @ 0.0009461 = 9.4913 BTC [-] {2}

06:46:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 100 @ 0.07000302 = 7.0003 BTC [-] {4}

06:53:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0322 = 0.161 BTC [+]

07:31:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SF1] 1194 @ 0.00084601 = 1.0101 BTC [+] {6}

07:32:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SF1] 300 @ 0.00085 = 0.255 BTC [+]

07:38:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07197666 = 0.2159 BTC [+] {2}

07:39:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0719989 = 0.792 BTC [+] {2}

07:42:11 Naphex: ;;ident

07:42:11 gribble: Nick 'Naphex', with hostmask 'Naphex!~naphex@btcxchange.ro', is identified as user 'Naphex', with GPG key id 64CDBADCE1E0BBAF, key fingerprint F3D76A985F5844814A93F46364CDBADCE1E0BBAF, and bitcoin address 12mVDqdWqFY6zrCqNqgHbxhDPB4ZVUuaTu

08:00:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00094795 = 7.9154 BTC [+] {2}

08:11:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1450 @ 0.00094556 = 1.3711 BTC [-]

08:14:13 Naphex: morn

08:15:24 fluffypony: Naphex: morning

08:20:13 wywialm: good morning, Naphex

08:21:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00094555 = 6.3352 BTC [-] {2}

08:24:50 Naphex: morning to all, need more coffee:D

08:25:43 fluffypony: also

08:25:48 fluffypony: but our power is out

08:25:51 fluffypony: so guess that'll have to wait

08:32:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.0009486 = 12.1421 BTC [+] {2}

08:33:22 fluffypony: between the MrWDunne guy and DrGregMulhauser I'm seriously considering becoming SirFluffyPonyPhd on bitcointalk

08:33:33 fluffypony: feeling so left out without a title amongst all the Mr's and Dr's

08:36:38 HeySteve: good morning

08:37:17 HeySteve: fluffypony, I recommend a portable Honda generator like the EU20i

08:38:39 HeySteve: it's more than enough to run 2 PCs or fridge/freezer/kettle

08:40:13 fluffypony: seems to be back on now

08:40:14 fluffypony: I looked at that little honda a while ago, I should actually just get it

08:41:40 HeySteve: it's a bit pricy but the low weight is a plus

08:43:59 HeySteve: CCN editor scooped me on the China Ban #4 story

08:44:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00094908 = 3.0845 BTC [+]

08:55:19 fluffypony: davout: bon matinée!

08:56:29 davout: fluffypony: ca roule?

08:56:36 davout: s/ca/ça/

08:58:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.0009474 = 17.8111 BTC [-] {2}

08:59:50 fluffypony: davout: ça marche!

09:00:58 davout: fluffypony: nah, that's "it works"

09:01:11 davout: you can just say "ça va", or "ça roule"

09:01:11 fluffypony: oh that's not what I was trying to say

09:01:17 fluffypony: French idioms elude me

09:01:20 fluffypony: French in general does

09:01:37 fluffypony: I'ma stick to Afrikaans and Zulu

09:01:47 davout: fluffypony: ja, dat werkt ook

09:01:54 fluffypony: heh heh

09:05:00 fluffypony: LOL - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579138.0

09:06:10 davout: "you can some and say Hi."

09:07:41 HeySteve: heh that gif says it all

09:07:51 fluffypony: my favourite is the logo in the last post

09:14:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00094967 = 10.209 BTC [+] {2}

09:26:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9287 @ 0.00095254 = 8.8462 BTC [+] {2}

09:29:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.0009527 = 10.6226 BTC [+]

09:31:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6382 @ 0.00094554 = 6.0344 BTC [-]

09:33:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0711 = 0.1422 BTC [-]

09:37:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.071999 = 0.288 BTC [+]

09:57:06 fluffypony: !up MrWDunne

09:57:06 assbot: Voicing MrWDunne for 30 minutes.

09:57:25 MrWDunne: Thank you DrFluffyPonyPhd

09:57:26 *: DrFluffyPonyPhd tips his fedora

09:57:35 DrFluffyPonyPhd: of course, my good fellow

09:57:47 DrFluffyPonyPhd: how goes the shower-cap-wearing Satan worshipper colleague of yours?

09:57:58 MrWDunne: It is you!

09:58:05 DrFluffyPonyPhd: nope

09:58:09 DrFluffyPonyPhd: I just know how to read

09:58:32 MrWDunne: I would imagine he is sleeping, he was being drilled with questions until about 5AM his time. Ah okay, should have guessed that one

09:58:59 DrFluffyPonyPhd: I know some other people who were being drilled until about 5am, just not with questions

09:59:12 MrWDunne: OPs mum?

09:59:34 DrFluffyPonyPhd: now now, we aren't THAT base here

09:59:52 MrWDunne: I presume I should never go full base

10:01:07 fluffypony: ;;ident

10:01:08 gribble: Nick 'fluffypony', with hostmask 'fluffypony!~fluffypon@geartri.be', is identified as user 'fluffypony', with GPG key id 7455C5E3C0CDCEB9, key fingerprint BDA6BD7042B721C467A9759D7455C5E3C0CDCEB9, and bitcoin address 1FAvFCgXBmJ4uV3p1NFzWkkyndH7FJ6Vzx

10:01:26 MrWDunne: Anyhow, I thought this would be an appropriate place to announce the IPO

10:01:54 MrWDunne: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583262.0 has the relevant information, essentially I am currently working on a UK bitcoin exchange

10:01:56 ozbot: [XCP] IPO announcement. DunneCapital LTD - UK bitcoin exchange and a casino

10:02:08 MrWDunne: Thank you ozbot

10:02:36 MrWDunne: FluffyPony I have sent you a tip for giving me a voice

10:02:40 fluffypony: Bitstamp is already in the UK?

10:02:45 fluffypony: oh tks

10:03:21 HeySteve: this place is becoming a real Dragon's Den, I'm thinking of writing something to that effect

10:03:31 fluffypony: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstamp

10:03:31 ozbot: Bitstamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10:03:41 fluffypony: "The company initially operated in Slovenia, but moved its operations to the UK in April 2013"

10:03:45 MrWDunne: Bitstamp isn't really in the UK. Its mainland Europe and as such very expensive for those in the UK

10:04:01 MrWDunne: Its banking is in mainland Europe, we have a UK bank

10:04:07 MrWDunne: That is the primary difference

10:05:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00094536 = 11.6752 BTC [-] {3}

10:06:16 fluffypony: https://coinfloor.co.uk

10:06:19 fluffypony: like them?

10:06:22 MrWDunne: We have of course already secured the bank account

10:06:24 MrWDunne: No

10:06:28 MrWDunne: They have a polish bank account

10:06:32 MrWDunne: *Polish

10:06:41 MrWDunne: Its just denominated in GBP

10:07:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.492 BTC [+]

10:07:28 MrWDunne: In the UK we have "Faster Payments" which are free and instant bank transfers. CoinFloor take international wires which cost between £15 and £25 and take up to 5 days

10:08:44 MrWDunne: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments_Service

10:08:44 fluffypony: well SEPA to Kraken is same day, SEPA to BitStamp is a day at most

10:08:45 ozbot: Faster Payments Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10:08:47 fluffypony: can't speak to CoinFloor

10:08:58 fluffypony: but sure, cost savings are great

10:09:24 fluffypony: except that if Kraken, Bitstamp, and CoinFloor all chose to have bank accounts outside of the UK (presumably not for lack of trying) how do you propose to overcome that hurdle?

10:09:34 MrWDunne: SEPA incurs a 3% hidden cost + £15. Also in the UK it doesn't normally take a day for a SEPA, more like 3.

10:10:01 MrWDunne: It was thanks to our main adviser we have the account. The banks are all turning everyone down however an exception was made essentially.

10:10:49 BingoBoingo: Let us not forget Intersango was a UK exchange

10:11:08 fluffypony: ok so if you're key differentiator is that you have a UK bank account, maybe that needs to be specified in your proposal

10:11:12 MrWDunne: Exactly

10:11:16 fluffypony: rather than "The UK is the world's 6th largest economy, but so far they have no bitcoin exchange"

10:11:21 fluffypony: that is factually incorrect

10:11:42 MrWDunne: Well there is no true UK bitcoin exchange, but yes I will make it more specific. One moment

10:12:02 BingoBoingo: GLBSE was a UK exchange, and that killed it along with the operator not taking it seriosly enough until it was too late

10:13:18 BingoBoingo: I honestly don't know if the English, Scottish, Welsh, or North Irish have it in them any more to run anything

10:13:25 BingoBoingo: !up Diablo-D3

10:13:25 assbot: Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.

10:13:28 MrWDunne: And now he is trying to run coinfloor

10:13:37 MrWDunne: (The man who ran GLBSE)

10:13:51 Diablo-D3: glbse was a STOCK exchange, not a forex.

10:13:53 BingoBoingo: MrWDunne: That isn't exactly a secret.

10:14:06 Diablo-D3: MrWDunne: why the fuck is anyone letting him run something again

10:14:27 MrWDunne: I have no idea. And I know what GLBSE is, the guy who ran it owns coinfloor

10:14:31 Diablo-D3: nefario is the reason that I quit bothering with the bitcoin investment community

10:14:45 MrWDunne: Nefarious nefario

10:15:07 fluffypony: "I estimate bitstamp earns approximately 20BTC per day currently."

10:15:11 fluffypony: that can be calculated more accurately

10:15:23 fluffypony: YTD Bitstamp has done, on average, 18682.27233 BTC daily in volume

10:15:42 fluffypony: which means their earnings are between 37.364 BTC and 93.411 BTC daily

10:15:51 MrWDunne: Thank you very much, I shall adjust it

10:15:54 fluffypony: (they have a sliding fee scale dependent on volume)

10:16:45 BingoBoingo: fluffypony: You also have to consider the problem of actual vs. imagined volume

10:16:50 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: werd

10:16:54 MrWDunne: I know about the sliding scale, I used yesterdays volume for the calculation.

10:17:17 fluffypony: "We should be attractive to customers thanks to lax KYC/AML, as we will not require identification for those who wish to trade £500/€600 or less per week." <- so basically I can get around all KYC/AML issues by opening 100 accounts?

10:17:23 fluffypony: money launderer's paradise, yo

10:18:11 MrWDunne: Technically speaking we have no legal requirements to have any KYC/AML policy. We will require them giving us an address just not "proving" it. Also that is meant to be per month. I need to proof read better

10:18:39 MrWDunne: Not to mention we can see which bank account the money comes in from, so if 100 accounts are getting money from the same bank account it is very obvious

10:19:31 BingoBoingo: MrWDunne: Why not go full measure and take Western Union and other retail wire transfers?

10:20:11 HeySteve: I suggest stating it not as "lax" but rather "minimal"

10:20:12 MrWDunne: The bank have been quite clear with how they expect us to use the account. They don't want large amounts of cash deposits

10:20:25 MrWDunne: HeySteve: I second that

10:20:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2865 @ 0.00094511 = 2.7077 BTC [-] {2}

10:21:33 fluffypony: so there seems to be a lack of technical details about how you'll accomplish this (and Bitcoin is generally a technical audience, investors doubly so)

10:21:48 fluffypony: need to have lots of details about your proposed architecture

10:21:51 MrWDunne: We're having a KYC/AML policy not to be legal, we don't have to do it to be legal. But to keep the bank account.

10:22:05 fluffypony: how your software will handle large volumes

10:22:11 MrWDunne: I can get those details available by the end of this month

10:22:47 HeySteve: I suggest engineering for provable deposits from the getgo, multisig control of cold wallets also good

10:22:50 BingoBoingo: MrWDunne: Who ensures that your fiat handling operation stays legal?

10:23:20 fluffypony: what the software will be written in, who the team is and what qualifies them to write the software, what database platform you're going to be using, how you'll handle consistency, etc.

10:23:26 fluffypony: probably a bunch of other things Naphex can ask

10:23:32 MrWDunne: HeySteve: For cold wallets we will be using multisig and of course we will have provable deposits.

10:23:54 HeySteve: yeah that deserves a mention

10:24:06 MrWDunne: Yes I can imagine, I'm not the one handling the most technical matters. But by the end of the month I will have the technical details available

10:24:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5935 @ 0.00094255 = 5.594 BTC [-]

10:24:47 MrWDunne: BingoBoingo: Our financial adviser worker at a high street bank for 25 years. He knows several people who will work in compliance once we have the volume to support them.

10:25:23 BingoBoingo: Opening first and doing compliance later seemed to have been what doomed the other UK ventures.

10:26:27 Naphex: back

10:26:32 MrWDunne: The main thing that doomed UK ventures was the banks not knowing what they were doing, also if we sell 10,000 shares at the second tier rate (once software + servers are ready) we will have enough to take on a compliance officer from the getgo

10:26:33 Naphex: sorry was out for dinner break

10:26:49 BingoBoingo: MrWDunne: Where are you fundraising again?

10:27:01 MrWDunne: CounterParty BingoBoingo

10:27:05 MrWDunne: Ticker DUNNECAP

10:27:17 BingoBoingo: See, that is a problem.

10:27:34 BingoBoingo: What kind of screening and diligence did that listing require?

10:27:37 fluffypony: !up MrWDunne

10:27:37 assbot: Voicing MrWDunne for 30 minutes.

10:27:42 fluffypony: ;;gettrust MrWDunne

10:27:43 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user fluffypony to user MrWDunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=fluffypony&dest=MrWDunne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=MrWDunne | Rated since: never

10:28:51 MrWDunne: BingoBoingo: In future we will be moving to another exchange - post launch. However I will happily provide ID to a trusted member of the community in order to verify who I am - and I am willing to meet people IRL

10:28:58 MrWDunne: Thanks again fluffypony

10:29:28 BingoBoingo: If only these things hadn't been said so many times before.

10:29:53 MrWDunne: BingoBoingo: I totally agree. Then again how did the due diligence stop say N&B happening

10:30:02 fluffypony: there wasn't any

10:30:13 BingoBoingo: MrWDunne: Exercise for an educated reader.

10:30:42 Naphex: so what's this new exchange you're openning MrWDunne ?

10:31:15 MrWDunne: Hey Naphex , apparently you will have a lot of technical questions for me. UK bitcoin exchange, with UK banking

10:31:27 BingoBoingo: "I've heard this Country song, a thousand times before. Heard it all my life. Sung by different people."

10:31:44 fluffypony: https://wiki.counterparty.co/w/Assets <- so basically to create an asset all you do is a CLI call

10:31:45 ozbot: Assets - Counterparty Wiki

10:32:00 fluffypony: assbot: how amazing is that?

10:32:00 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

10:32:49 Naphex: MrWDunne - are you using inhouse developed software? buying it or extrernalizing?

10:33:29 MrWDunne: We have a third party developing it, we were referred by someone else

10:33:44 MrWDunne: Hence why I cannot answer questions directly about technical measures

10:33:58 Naphex: are you doing regular code checks, security audit on the source code?

10:34:04 *: BingoBoingo has to head out. Will return eventually.

10:34:14 Naphex: do you know what you get with the product you're paying for?:P

10:34:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5267 @ 0.0009494 = 5.0005 BTC [+]

10:34:48 MrWDunne: The third party is doing that as they go, but prior to launch we are paying for a full security audit of the code. Also the person who referred us knows them personally, and its an interesting project.

10:35:43 Naphex: what's it written in? the project?

10:36:18 fluffypony: Naphex: PHP :-P

10:36:27 MrWDunne: I believe I would be correct to say the frontend logic is simply done in PHP, but the trading engine is C++

10:37:00 MrWDunne: I know as a matter of fact its not just PHP fluffy

10:37:28 fluffypony: maybe RealSolid's writing it

10:38:13 MrWDunne: I don't think so

10:38:16 MrWDunne: aha

10:40:49 Naphex: on what OS is the trading engine going to run? Are the components sufficiently isolated?

10:40:51 MrWDunne: Anyhow, I have to leave in about 10 minutes to visit another bank (looking to get additional accounts for redundancy). If you have a few questions you want me to get a proper answer to just put them here and I'll get an answer as soon as possible

10:41:09 Naphex: can you scale that C++ engine up, or will you just be running on single big server?

10:41:25 MrWDunne: Naphex: Different server for each "chunk", and we're hoping to use OpenBSD

10:41:41 MrWDunne: Scalable, however it should be find for a very long time on one high powered server

10:41:47 fluffypony: tbh, an exchange is a REALLY tough sell given the regulatory hurdles and the track record of many past exchanges (gox etc.) - you're going to need a far more fleshed out business plan and a LOT of details about how you're overcoming the technical and legal challenges (and about how you calculate your fundraising requirements)

10:42:20 MrWDunne: Fund raising requirements are really rather simple. We already have quotes on all of the costs

10:42:33 MrWDunne: The only cost we don't know the price of yet is compliance officer

10:43:30 punkman: so you only have quotes at the moment?

10:43:33 fluffypony: listing on an "exchange" that anyone can list on with zero due diligence or even an email address verification makes it doubly challenging...I suggest leveraging the -otc WoT and GPG contracts (http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_Contract) to build trust and tie yourself down to shareholders

10:43:41 Naphex: do you have a contract with the development team? too keep extending/bugfixing after release?

10:43:44 fluffypony: good starting point: http://fraudsters.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/

10:44:27 MrWDunne: Also the actual business plan is a 25 page PDF, but it has details about an additional project planned to launch in a year. And Naphex: yes we certainly do.

10:44:40 fluffypony: also last thing in terms of reading material is hanbot's glorious epilogue here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0

10:45:09 fluffypony: (well, an epilogue in that I don't think anything further needs to be written on the matter)

10:46:35 Naphex: tbh, i'd be scared of doing that in C++ enterprise wise

10:46:50 Naphex: you're gonna need too attach lots of other components, for reporting, monitoring, and keeping track off

10:46:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50199999 = 1.004 BTC [+] {2}

10:47:00 Naphex: so it depends a lot on what the tradeengine is going to do

10:47:13 Naphex: but you'll need tons of tools attached especially when you go live

10:47:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3265 @ 0.00094898 = 3.0984 BTC [-] {2}

10:47:53 fluffypony: yeah, and on the topic of reinventing of wheels... https://alphapoint.com seems...interesting if you're going that route

10:47:56 MrWDunne: Of course, as I said don't quote me on C++ I just know its not a PHP trade engine

10:48:52 MrWDunne: Anyhow, I do now need to go. So please send any questions to me on BitcoinTalk and I'll answer them as soon as

10:48:52 punkman: so, quotes on costs, outsourced tech, 25 page pdf and listing on Counterparty. What else you got?

10:48:53 Naphex: MrWDunne: who wrote the specs, for the third party to develop?

10:49:37 Naphex: outsourced tech is the most problematic imho

10:49:39 MrWDunne: Punkman: two bank accounts known to be for a bitcoin exchange, with the bank explicitly saying that is okay for us to use.

10:49:52 Naphex: for something so sensitive, i wouldn't do much trusting. or use developers that are not in-house

10:50:18 MrWDunne: Naphex; More details will emerge on that, its a hard one to explain.

10:50:22 jurov: wut "SEPA incurs a 3% hidden cost + £15"? I wouldn't touch such scumbag banks with dry pole

10:50:28 Naphex: i'd care for backdoors, known 'issues', and insider leaks

10:50:42 Naphex: and you'd want someone doing lots of monitoring

10:50:45 MrWDunne: Naphex: Hence code security audit

10:50:47 Naphex: especially early

10:50:51 fluffypony: Naphex: buffer overruns are a feature

10:50:55 MrWDunne: Naphex: This will be my fulltime job

10:51:25 MrWDunne: Jurov: unfortunately that is every UK bank. 3% is every bank though. That is the currency conversion discrepancy

10:51:39 Naphex: MrWDunne: are you going to do the tehnical monitoring as well?

10:52:12 MrWDunne: Naphex: No that would be unwise, I will have a professional do that, and learn from him as we go along

10:52:52 Naphex: MrWDunne: what about hardware?

10:53:10 Naphex: the servers, the colocation, the hosting

10:53:12 MrWDunne: The data center will monitor the hardware

10:53:15 Naphex: who will mange them full time?

10:53:16 MrWDunne: Node4

10:53:31 MrWDunne: Northampton data center

10:53:35 MrWDunne: Tier 3

10:53:44 MrWDunne: 100% uptime since it was created

10:54:15 MrWDunne: I'm responsible for initial setup. That is something I can handle

10:54:24 bounce: fluffypony: just scanned a bit, but we need less AML, not more. so if the rules allow for this, that's positive.

10:54:28 Naphex: you're relianing on a lot of outsourcing

10:54:41 Naphex: which for a bitcoin exchange, i doubt its going to be enough

10:54:58 MrWDunne: Naphex: Better have a professional do it than myself

10:55:04 fluffypony: bounce: 100% - I wasn't arguing for or against it, although I do think that the best non-AML route will always be otc/face to face

10:55:17 MrWDunne: Bounce: Indeed, the laws allow for no AML. But the bank doesn't

10:55:23 Naphex: MrWDunne: better have that proffesional hired and with an office near ;]

10:55:33 bounce: find a bank who does?

10:55:47 MrWDunne: bounce: there isn't one. Not in the UK.

10:55:47 fluffypony: Naphex: and a noose around his neck and a limit on his frappuccinos

10:56:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00435463 = 0.2613 BTC [-] {4}

10:56:02 *: bounce wonders how hard it is to set up a bank and have it talk to other banks

10:56:22 MrWDunne: Naphex: Once we have the volume we will be doing just that.

10:56:58 fluffypony: bounce: licensing is the issue, I think

10:57:05 *: bounce was thinking it'd be useful to have a fiat bank connect various exchanges

10:57:23 MrWDunne: fluffypony: In the UK it is almost impossible

10:57:50 MrWDunne: We have had one bank open in the past 100 years

10:58:04 fluffypony: if the Bank of England stands....England stands!

10:58:16 fluffypony: brb coffee

10:59:16 fluffypony: mircea_popescu

10:59:30 fluffypony: you missed MrWDunne by 6 seconds

11:00:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00094289 = 4.3844 BTC [-]

11:00:06 punkman: you can make another one for fiddy cents

11:00:59 fluffypony: Banka de Fluffy has a certain ring to it

11:03:59 mircea_popescu: fluffypony who is mrwdunne ?

11:05:05 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: the guy that's starting a UK exchange because there "isn't one"

11:05:12 mircea_popescu: awww

11:05:25 mircea_popescu: well, maybe next time someone starts a uk exchange.

11:07:39 HeySteve: anyone familiar with SingleHop hosting?

11:09:04 HeySteve: "This week, SingleHop engineers noticed an increase in the number of customers reporting compromised servers. As we investigated these reports, we were able to identify a common malicious software program installed on many of the compromised servers. The malware is specifically designed to siphon the server’s computing power into mining bitcoins. This has been a growing trend throughout

11:09:04 HeySteve: the web lately, with malware attacks of this nature being reported by customers of AWS and the Iowa State University."

11:09:49 fluffypony: that just points to shitty sysadmins; if they're not monitoring load what are they doing?

11:12:08 HeySteve: call of duty and bong hits? who knows. but would monitoring load prevent this sort of thing occurring in the first place?

11:13:18 fluffypony: not entirely, but any sysadmin worth his salt needs to know *when* to scale

11:13:35 fluffypony: and you do that by consistently monitoring resource utilisation over time

11:13:52 HeySteve: well I have no idea if they caught this early or late

11:14:00 HeySteve: but they've taken action, cleaned it apparently

11:14:51 HeySteve: I'm more interested in the malware and where the coins are going, I wonder if they preserved a specimen (sort of thing)

11:17:31 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: The entire world is Italy. <- true words

11:18:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4678 @ 0.00094625 = 4.4266 BTC [+]

11:18:30 HeySteve: they hint it's related to heartbleed, NRPE or Ebury, not that I'd heard of the other 2

11:20:00 fluffypony: ebury is an rk

11:27:12 fluffypony: can you search the WoT for a specific gpg key id?

11:29:00 random_cat: mircea_popescue: <a href="http://xeur.bitcoin-central.net/"here/a on http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.EUR is apparently invalid

11:29:22 random_cat: mircea_popescu, even

11:35:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0708 = 0.2124 BTC [-]

11:37:13 jurov: davout ^

11:37:42 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.50000001 = 5 BTC [-]

11:41:58 random_cat: signed documets and stale urls: yum

11:43:38 jurov: davout will surely fix it

11:53:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44478 @ 0.00094902 = 42.2105 BTC [+] {6}

12:12:55 jurov: !up MykelSIlver

12:12:55 assbot: Voicing MykelSIlver for 30 minutes.

12:13:02 jurov: !up Sahtor

12:13:02 assbot: Voicing Sahtor for 30 minutes.

12:16:41 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: morning

12:16:50 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: howdy!

12:17:36 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: saw that article about the mt gox coins flowing into maidsafe. that thing is more crooked than a chicago politician

12:18:25 bitcoinpete: fluffypony: and if you go to http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php you should be able to just search the page for a key

12:18:45 fluffypony: bitcoinpete: yep, but then some bright spark traced some coins back to BTC Guild and accused Eulethria of being complicit

12:18:56 wywialm: hello, bitcoinpete

12:18:57 fluffypony: without thinking that maybe someone mined some coins in the pool, withdrew them, and then used them

12:19:04 fluffypony: because obviously all coins just appear out of thin air

12:19:45 bitcoinpete: magic coins are magic!

12:19:58 bitcoinpete: wywialm: ahoy :)

12:20:18 fluffypony: needless to say, eulethria was pissed

12:20:19 fluffypony: was/is

12:20:47 bitcoinpete: fair enough

12:21:37 bitcoinpete: so ltb head adam levine tried writing about maidsafe for techcrunch and they pulled his article cuz it had a tip widget

12:21:53 bitcoinpete: so he republished it on his website: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/maidsafe-wildly-successful-crypto-crowdsale-debacle/

12:21:59 fluffypony: lawl

12:22:20 fluffypony: did they think it defeated journalistic integrity?

12:22:38 bitcoinpete: that's exactly it

12:23:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1499 @ 0.0001291 = 0.1935 BTC [+] {2}

12:23:38 bitcoinpete: kid is pissing me off pretending he knows shit though, quotes like "Life is about variables, monetary fundamentals is entirely about variables." abound

12:23:52 cazalla: how'd he sneak that widget in

12:24:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 5395 @ 0.00006412 = 0.3459 BTC [-] {9}

12:25:21 bitcoinpete: "The MAIDSAFE project specifically and these types of crowdsales broadly have a great future ahead, but it’s a bit like launching a boat – careful thought, diligent planning and rigorous construction must all come together or the whole thing sinks." <<such derp

12:25:25 fluffypony: someone needs to tell MaidSafe and this "Dark Market" crap that they're reinventing the wheel; Tahoe-LAFS over I2P already has a web client and is a distributed data store etc.

12:25:56 cazalla: bitcoinpete: so you won't be accepting ltbcoin for your writings?

12:26:03 bitcoinpete: cazalla: good question. obviously not very subtly or else tc wouldn't have published and retracted

12:26:12 bitcoinpete: cazalla: oh goodness

12:26:30 cazalla: maybe the editor just copy/pasta'd without proofreading

12:26:40 bitcoinpete: levine is also doing this humint.is thing. he's the "cvo"

12:26:56 bitcoinpete: "We help brands create digital

12:26:56 bitcoinpete: currencies to make good.

12:26:57 bitcoinpete: We are Humint."

12:26:58 fluffypony: oh god

12:27:03 fluffypony: CVO as in Chief Visionary Officer?

12:27:13 davout: random_cat jurov it's fixed, thank you for reporting

12:27:44 davout: ;;rate random_cat 1 reads the fine print

12:27:45 thestringpuller: ;;google Chief Visionary Officer

12:27:45 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user random_cat has been recorded.

12:27:46 gribble: Chief visionary officer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_visionary_officer; What is CVO (chief visionary officer)? - Definition from WhatIs.com: http://searchcio.techtarget.com/definition/CVO; Chief Visionary Officer | The Black Man Can Institute: http://tbmcinstitute.theblackmancan.org/leadership-team/chief-visionary-officer/

12:27:53 thestringpuller: ;;google define Chief Visionary Officer

12:27:54 gribble: Chief visionary officer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_visionary_officer; Chief executive officer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_executive_officer; What is CVO (chief visionary officer)? - Definition from WhatIs.com: http://searchcio.techtarget.com/definition/CVO

12:28:03 bitcoinpete: ;;google cvo

12:28:03 gribble: CVO: Summary for Cenveo Inc- Yahoo! Finance: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CVO; Cascades Volcano Observatory: http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/; CVO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVO

12:28:18 bitcoinpete: mmm vulcans...

12:29:22 thestringpuller: ratings for finding bugs

12:29:35 thestringpuller: lol davout where do you live in France?

12:29:40 fluffypony: thestringpuller: new idea for a Bug Bounty program?

12:29:42 thestringpuller: (trying to estimate shipping for cookies)

12:30:11 davout: thestringpuller: ~paris

12:30:54 davout: thestringpuller: reading fine print is a good thing, why not rate it as such? :D

12:33:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00469993 = 0.282 BTC [+] {3}

12:37:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00094353 = 5.9914 BTC [-]

12:41:37 jurov: <troll>if random_cat really did read fine print, he'd ask you straight, not mirceau popescue</troll>

12:42:06 *: random_cat slaps jurov about a bit with a wet puppy

12:43:14 davout: brb, gonna slap myself with wet pussies

12:43:22 davout: !up Luke-Jr

12:43:22 assbot: Voicing Luke-Jr for 30 minutes.

12:43:24 random_cat: good choice

12:43:27 fluffypony: drowning cats again?

12:45:31 ThickAsThieves: so much log

12:46:09 random_cat: blame the wet pussies

12:46:44 davout: random_cat: wet pussies are the consequence of so much log, not the other way around

12:47:39 random_cat: i think that depends upon where one's nose is

12:49:30 bitcoinpete: http://www.institutionalinvestor.com/Article/3332609/Banking-and-Capital-Markets-Emerging-Markets/Chinas-Rate-Liberalization-Stakes-Who-Wins-Who-Loses.html?ArticleId=3332609&single=true#.U1kNLuaSyXQ

12:49:40 bitcoinpete: http://www.institutionalinvestor.com/Article/3332458/Asset-Management-Macro/Is-China-Really-Prepared-to-Shift-to-Market-Driven-Interest-Rates.html?ArticleId=3332458&rel=nofollow&single=true#.U1kEB-aSyXQ

12:49:43 ozbot: Is China Really Prepared to Shift to Market-Driven Interest Rates? | Institutional Investor

12:50:11 random_cat: not at all

12:57:22 bitcoinpete: "Worry about skin in the game, not inequality."

12:57:39 bitcoinpete: taleb's on a roll right now

12:58:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1469 @ 0.00094559 = 1.3891 BTC [+]

13:01:29 HeySteve: yeah Eleuthria contacted me, glad I was vague and didn't make any accusations of involvement there

13:02:13 HeySteve: re: <+fluffypony> needless to say, eulethria was pissed

13:02:48 fluffypony: yeah for real

13:06:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00094843 = 3.7937 BTC [+]

13:10:22 punkman: http://cryptome.org/jya/digicrash.htm

13:26:21 *: danielpbarron is left-handed

13:26:28 fluffypony: danielpbarron: my sincere condolances

13:26:34 danielpbarron: heh

13:26:35 fluffypony: I have both my left and my right hands still attached

13:27:08 Naphex: http://www.fentonreport.com/bitcoin/why-the-savegox-plan-is-very-important-to-the-bitcoin-ecosystem

13:27:10 ozbot: Why the SaveGox Plan is Very Important to the Bitcoin Ecosystem | FENTON REPORT

13:27:12 Naphex: or just let gox diee

13:29:38 fluffypony: he has a point though - if the 200k coins they magically "found" form part of the assets sold off to pay creditors, customers will proportionally get less as they have to share with other creditors

13:29:57 fluffypony: I'm just glad I never kept coins on there

13:30:38 *: danielpbarron too

13:31:40 Naphex: https://i.imgur.com/CDR0owC.png load times post frontend optimizations :D

13:31:57 fluffypony: nice

13:32:05 fluffypony: did you reduce page size as well?

13:32:41 Naphex: nah

13:33:18 Naphex: mostly cacheing tuning

13:34:07 Naphex: and removing some bugdowns

13:34:43 fluffypony: cool nice

13:34:45 fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/xmnlXIW.jpg

13:35:10 Naphex: lol

13:38:55 Blazedout419: guys can China get out and stay out..

13:39:06 Blazedout419: So bored with the China bans already

13:39:43 Naphex: they banned btc again?:)

13:40:00 fluffypony: !up MrWDunne

13:40:00 assbot: Voicing MrWDunne for 30 minutes.

13:40:12 MrWDunne: Yes, they are banning btc again

13:40:44 MrWDunne: Essentially leaves China to use Cash only, not sure if they will be willing to use that

13:41:48 Naphex: well, i missed the whole news

13:41:52 Naphex: so.. hooray!

13:42:16 fluffypony: lawl

13:43:31 pankkake: I'm surprised things like mtgox bankruptancy were considered "bad" for bitcoin price

13:43:42 pankkake: after all, you realize there are now less bitcoins than previously thought

13:43:56 MrWDunne: No

13:43:57 ThickAsThieves: dont blame china for US selling bitcoins

13:43:58 ThickAsThieves: etc

13:44:08 fluffypony: Naphex: that graph on the front page, it's not possible to zoom in right? wanted to see if you guys saw a dip from the China thing as well

13:44:13 MrWDunne: Pankkake Same amount of bitcoins. Just in fewer people's hands

13:44:33 MrWDunne: Starbucks apparently holds a large amount of BTC

13:44:45 Naphex: fluffypony: there is a slider down, you squeeze it

13:44:51 pankkake: well no, fractionnal reserves means more bitcoins than there are

13:44:59 Naphex: will switch it with a good graph pretty soon, the data plant should be ready by monday

13:44:59 fluffypony: OH, didn't see that

13:45:23 Naphex: and we'll replace it with proper OHLC-V data & candlesticks

13:45:38 fluffypony: neat

13:46:50 Naphex: brb, heading home. done with the office

13:46:52 asciilifeform: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-24/52-year-old-french-banker-jumps-her-death-paris-after-questioning-her-superiors

13:46:54 ozbot: 52 Year-Old French Banker Jumps To Her Death In Paris (After Questioning Her Superiors) | Zero Hedge

13:46:55 Naphex: and its raining :|

13:47:33 MrWDunne: pankkake: They didn't just disappear. They just moved to somewhere other than the owners hands

13:48:12 pankkake: but that was a while ago. so those bitcoins were already out, priced. yet people were still seing pretty numbers of bitcoins that were not there

13:48:46 MrWDunne: The problem is we don't know when they left, so its hard to price in.

13:48:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.49953258 BTC [-]

13:49:01 pankkake: right

13:49:29 MrWDunne: It does mean for a while there were more bitcoins in circulation than actually existed. But when did it all start?

13:50:51 fluffypony: pankkake: you'll love this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579498.0

13:50:56 fluffypony: raed the 2nd post

13:50:58 fluffypony: *read

13:51:07 pankkake: yeah I saw it :)

13:52:01 MrWDunne: Owch, good job by them

14:04:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00094843 = 1.802 BTC [+]

14:17:11 Naphex: fluffypony: prolly more interesting, RON vs BTCHotWallet https://i.imgur.com/ZvdQiSl.png

14:17:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1100 @ 0.0001291 = 0.142 BTC [+]

14:17:31 fluffypony: *clicks*

14:17:48 fluffypony: interesting

14:18:11 ThickAsThieves: "On the business front, Android fans are more apt to show a strong interest in Evernote (16.65X), LinkedIn (6.90X), venture capital (5.44X), and corporate finance (3.85X). The only business topics to feature prominently for iOS fans are TechCrunch (13.55X) and Bitcoin (7.93X)."

14:18:50 bitcoinpete: "#blackcoin is temporarily down but because of excellent community support we're working super hard to get it up again. ETA 2 hours." << ummm

14:19:42 mod6: so this looks weird:

14:19:48 mod6: $depth s.mpoe

14:19:50 mpexbot: mod6: S.MPOE Bids: ['15250 @ 0.00094828', '2256 @ 0.00094717', '4878 @ 0.00094541', '9100 @ 0.00094403', '4358 @ 0.00094297']

14:19:51 mpexbot: mod6: Asks: ['12204 @ 0.00094843', '18446744073709523111 @ 0.0009494', '10350 @ 0.00094958', '11050 @ 0.0009503', '3779 @ 0.0009512']

14:19:58 mod6: '18446744073709523111 @ 0.0009494'

14:20:10 ThickAsThieves: eek

14:20:28 bitcoinpete: holy

14:20:35 ThickAsThieves: mircea_popescu ^^^

14:20:38 mod6: it's happened before, was quickly fixed.

14:20:41 kakobrekla: broken again

14:20:51 ThickAsThieves: http://pando.com/2014/04/23/startups-anonymous-things-founders-say-to-investors-that-are-complete-bs/

14:20:52 ozbot: Startups Anonymous: Things founders say to investors that are complete BS | PandoDaily

14:21:38 bitcoinpete: ThickAsThieves: sounds like maidsafe and bitgo all wrapped into one

14:23:00 ThickAsThieves: !up MichalisBTC

14:23:00 assbot: Voicing MichalisBTC for 30 minutes.

14:23:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0718 = 0.1436 BTC [+]

14:23:37 bitcoinpete: "US bank credit money supply growing at about $45bn/month currently, well offsetting the +-$7bn/month QE slowdown. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TOTBKCR" << bueno!

14:24:00 ThickAsThieves: MichalisBTC is the bitcoin software guy I mentioned

14:24:05 ThickAsThieves: from the ashes of Neo

14:24:18 ThickAsThieves: benkay you around?

14:24:30 MichalisBTC: hehe yes indeed

14:25:05 ThickAsThieves: MichalisBTC do you have a link for details on your plan?

14:25:09 ThickAsThieves: or maybe share the website?

14:25:38 MichalisBTC: sure check it out, this is just to showcase projects cryptosysinc.com

14:26:16 ThickAsThieves: my own goal is for you guys to put him through the wringer so as to temper (snuff?) his plans as appropriate

14:26:39 ThickAsThieves: i am not particularly experienced or understanding of what he wants to offer

14:26:55 ThickAsThieves: other than specialized bitcoin software for businesses

14:27:24 MichalisBTC: we are working on a new project, it's Blockchain as a Service. It's a friendly RESTful API that allows creating bitcoin apps...to put it in single sentence. with a lot of automations and event type notifications.

14:27:47 ThickAsThieves: I met the Cryptosys guys last year, we broke bread, Danny proceeded to fuck them in the ass, etc

14:28:06 MichalisBTC: ass still hurts...

14:29:41 ThickAsThieves: maybe we can talk about this Hearn as your technical advisor thing

14:29:55 ThickAsThieves: why him? and what is he actually doing for you?

14:32:02 MichalisBTC: Yes, we approached Mike because all our previous work was on bitcoinJ. BitcoinJ was designed to be a mobile client rather a backend server.However, the tools of the library are helpful and because we code in Java we decided to give it a shot. We broke it appart and used what was good for our purposes but as some point we wanted advise on how to proceed, so we thought to pass our plans

14:32:02 MichalisBTC: through the Man himself.

14:33:15 MichalisBTC: Really nice guy btw. We had a one hour skype video call and went over our designs. A few days ago we asked him if we appoint him as our advisor for the funding process and he was kind enough to accept.

14:33:27 *: fluffypony ponders

14:33:38 ThickAsThieves: my own personal observations of Hearn are mixed

14:33:43 ThickAsThieves: he's obviously sharo

14:33:45 ThickAsThieves: sharp

14:33:50 ThickAsThieves: intelligent

14:33:50 Naphex: high scale services on spv?:(

14:34:04 ThickAsThieves: but he takes some questionable positions on things

14:34:12 fluffypony: so is he a technical advisor in terms of checking your architecture and designs, or is he an advisor to the funding process/business proposal?

14:34:19 ThickAsThieves: so i wouldnt rely on him for anything strategic or conceptual

14:34:40 MichalisBTC: technical advisor, our talks are strictly technical

14:35:22 ThickAsThieves: Naphex care to dumb down your comment for me?

14:35:31 ThickAsThieves: <+Naphex> high scale services on spv?:(

14:35:41 ThickAsThieves: whats spv?

14:35:52 MichalisBTC: The space we are entering with "Blockchain as a Service" is kind of competing with blockchain.info, some features overlap. his advise on that was that indeed we need more of these type of SaaS to help the eco-system...

14:36:04 Naphex: ThickAsThieves: as in thin client, in bitcoinj

14:36:05 Naphex: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Thin_Client_Security

14:36:27 Naphex: simple payment verification

14:36:31 ThickAsThieves: was does this sadden you? weak security?

14:37:01 ThickAsThieves: ah so clients that arent nodes

14:37:11 bitcoinpete: like multibit

14:37:40 ThickAsThieves: Michalis have you seen blockr.io ?

14:37:54 Naphex: any MITM will own the SPV's

14:38:15 MichalisBTC: no i haven't let me see

14:38:32 ThickAsThieves: kakobrekla knows the blockr people

14:39:14 MichalisBTC: yes, similar to this

14:39:18 ThickAsThieves: so, i'm not clear how making thin clients and acting like blockchain.info will make you money

14:39:31 ThickAsThieves: do you have a full business plan?

14:39:37 ThickAsThieves: or just the website content

14:39:55 Naphex: too me it just looks like products spinned off bitcoinj

14:40:08 MichalisBTC: well we are not making thin clients. Our customers will be those requesting software services. not the end users.

14:40:45 ThickAsThieves: could you give a case of an ideal client?

14:40:55 MichalisBTC: i guess there are a number of ways to do this, we went with Java and bitcoinJ was of great help.

14:41:13 Naphex: MichalisBTC: so the clearing engine keeps the wallets, provides restful apis to the other products right?

14:41:55 Naphex: ThickAsThieves: run a full-node cluster, and get whatever data you need from there. use full nodes for payments, and multi-sig cold wallets for storage

14:42:06 MichalisBTC: FX companies that need to offer bitcoin clearing without us being in control of their bitcoin. Anyone who wishes to built a bitcoin app. We do the heavy lifting for them.

14:42:47 MichalisBTC: We will be also offering notifications (sms/email/callbacks) in realtime

14:43:44 Naphex: "

14:43:45 Naphex: The built in API allows to perform the following functions:

14:43:45 Naphex: A. Send bitcoins from master, customer, hot wallets.

14:43:45 Naphex: B. Get balance updates for any existing wallet under the control of the system.

14:43:48 Naphex: C. Create new customer wallet.

14:43:50 Naphex: D. Create hot wallets.

14:43:53 Naphex: E. Process large amount requests.

14:43:55 Naphex: "

14:44:20 Naphex: MichalisBTC: what does the secure architecture entail? what other security systems are in place, besides the GRE tunnel

14:44:23 Naphex: and locked down internet

14:44:36 Naphex: can i clean you out if i get access to the gre?

14:45:01 Naphex: All the private keys and wallet files are immediately backed up to multiple physical locations via encrypted tunnels. The keys and files are stored in an encrypted format on database which reside on encrypted partition file systems. Thus eliminating the possibility of stealing keys, even if hard drives from backup locations are stolen.

14:45:16 Naphex: where are the encryption keys kept?

14:45:20 MichalisBTC: We are not holding any funds for "Blockchain as a Service" and the only input in the system is the bitcoin netowork.

14:45:48 Naphex: MichalisBTC: bitcoin network, as in SPV BitcoinJ

14:45:58 Naphex: not a full verifying node yes?

14:46:12 MichalisBTC: However, on other implementation, where we did host wallets, we had clear separation of non critical servers with distributed security. And at the back end everything was separated with APIs.

14:46:38 Naphex: MichalisBTC: did the API's require signing? like HMAC?

14:46:40 MichalisBTC: also, on the complete from end we used custom proxies.

14:47:22 MichalisBTC: *front end

14:47:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.07190556 = 0.5033 BTC [+] {4}

14:48:02 MichalisBTC: for blockchain as a service we plan to use oauth, so yes

14:48:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50579145 BTC [+]

14:48:57 punkman: MichalisBTC: why "as a service"? why not license the software that provices the convenient API for the blockchain?

14:49:35 fluffypony: ^^

14:50:08 punkman: *provides

14:50:24 fluffypony: less reputational risk as well, let the customer take ownership of their screw ups

14:50:36 MichalisBTC: we could license it, the main feature are the notifications. Business is to charge for the notifications, integration and support. Mainly because we will deal with businesses.

14:51:41 MichalisBTC: We are in Cyprus, low corporate tax attracts a lot of FX companies, who wish now to integrate bitcoin. Some list it already as CFDs, but they cannot clear bitcoin. We do the hard work for them, they are in control of the wallets. We are just the passthrough, offering a service.

14:52:45 MichalisBTC: fluffypony: yes, indeed

14:52:54 Naphex: MichalisBTC: what is the hard work in clearing bitcoin?

14:53:06 punkman: what is "clearing bitcoin"?

14:53:26 Naphex: punkman: ok payment, at 3 confirmations. send clearence

14:53:50 Naphex: 'here is your money, its good'

14:54:10 Naphex: !up MichalisBTC

14:54:10 assbot: Voicing MichalisBTC for 30 minutes.

14:55:22 Naphex: the weak point beeing any DDoS

14:55:29 Naphex: completly shutting down you're clearing node

14:55:35 Naphex: as we see every day with blockchain

14:55:44 Naphex: getting ddos'ed and cloudflare shutting down the API's

14:56:25 thestringpuller: ;;ident

14:56:26 gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None

14:56:34 thestringpuller: ;;ticker

14:56:36 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 454.09, Best ask: 455.9, Bid-ask spread: 1.81000, Last trade: 454.09, 24 hour volume: 31575.48797401, 24 hour low: 438.05, 24 hour high: 505.0, 24 hour vwap: 467.11276242

14:56:38 thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe

14:56:38 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00094255 / 0.00095081 / 0.00095978 (639879 shares, 608.41 BTC), 7D: 0.00094255 / 0.00097499 / 0.00101 (5908739 shares, 5,760.96 BTC), 30D: 0.00092844 / 0.00096165 / 0.00101 (21700966 shares, 20,868.83 BTC)

14:56:48 thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe

14:56:48 assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00094843 BTC [+]

14:57:07 MichalisBTC: with our security design for the perimeter the worst thing that can happen to one of our satellite nodes is go out of service. But with a DDoS they cannot penetrate further than that.

14:57:39 MichalisBTC: but yes point being that the mid-tier business ie fx, don't have to worry about it. We do

14:57:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 6 @ 0.14 = 0.84 BTC

14:58:29 Naphex: yeah but when ddos hits, and their customers can't deposit / withdraw, support phones and emails start burning

14:58:43 Naphex: why hasn't anyone implemented clearing notifications in BitcoinD Core ;o

14:58:51 thestringpuller: ;;gettrust MichalisBTC

14:58:52 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user MichalisBTC: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=MichalisBTC | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=MichalisBTC | Rated since: never

14:58:58 thestringpuller: gtfo

14:59:00 thestringpuller: lol

14:59:07 Naphex: ;;later tell Naphex fork BitcoinD, and implement clearing notifications via JSON-RPC

14:59:08 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:59:37 MichalisBTC: Naphex: yes, our nodes will not be publicly available. :) no notification in core

15:01:45 artifexd: Naphex: GRE tunnel? Wassat?

15:02:01 Naphex: artifexd: VPN

15:02:52 artifexd: Why did you make the distinction? What's the difference?

15:03:56 artifexd: Nevermind. Found the rfc

15:06:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2005 @ 0.0001291 = 0.2588 BTC [-]

15:07:58 ThickAsThieves: MichalisBTC I'd recommend registering your name with nickserv, then signing up for the Bitcoin Web of Trust. These are some of the verification methods we live by and a great way to build your rep while establishing an identity.

15:08:30 MichalisBTC: Oks thx

15:08:37 ThickAsThieves: people here can help with any aspects you are unclear on

15:09:24 ThickAsThieves: it's a slow time of day here, so the more you're around the more you can float your questions and answer them

15:10:01 ThickAsThieves: trust isnt built quickly in these parts

15:10:08 MichalisBTC: sure, and I also I would like to get more feedback on the project, give out more info

15:11:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.00435 = 0.261 BTC [-] {2}

15:12:24 MichalisBTC: thanks for the intro! catch you later

15:12:27 Naphex: MichalisBTC: go core!:D

15:12:29 Naphex: :]

15:12:37 MichalisBTC: thanks much

15:12:48 ThickAsThieves: so http://www.bitangels.co is still a thing huh

15:12:54 fluffypony: I would trust Naphex with my infrastructure

15:13:32 fluffypony: ;;rate Naphex 1 knows his shiznat regarding infrastructure, architecture, and deployment. is probably a better developer than me to boot.

15:13:35 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user Naphex has changed from 1 to 1.

15:13:44 Naphex: thq fluffypony

15:13:55 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: when are we starting BitDevils?

15:14:13 ThickAsThieves: you have my attention :)

15:15:41 ThickAsThieves: all we need is some handsome pictures of everyone in a suit or bitcoin t-shirt

15:15:44 fluffypony: yes

15:15:52 fluffypony: and we'll call it a "consulting service" for startups

15:15:59 fluffypony: where we play devils advocate to the ideas

15:16:01 ThickAsThieves: no no

15:16:04 fluffypony: to help them refine it

15:16:05 ThickAsThieves: incubator

15:16:20 ThickAsThieves: the Devil's Nest

15:16:20 fluffypony: BitDevils - The Startup Womb

15:16:59 kakobrekla: sounds like s cheerleaders team

15:18:25 ThickAsThieves: well yeah

15:19:25 jurov: !up smidge

15:19:25 assbot: Voicing smidge for 30 minutes.

15:19:55 jurov: !up mrwdunne

15:19:55 assbot: Voicing mrwdunne for 30 minutes.

15:20:08 mrwdunne: Thank you jurov

15:22:01 mrwdunne: Anyhow, does anyone have any new questions re exchange?

15:23:03 Naphex: mrwdunne: will you have liquidity at launch?

15:24:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 2 @ 0.14 = 0.28 BTC

15:25:06 mrwdunne: Naphex: yes, we are selling in stages, at each stage we will sell the shares for more. Whatever we have left we will use to provide liquidity. However I think we will see a flood of people from the UK when we launch. Especially as the bank transfers are instant

15:25:48 ThickAsThieves: you think youll get a flood of people on a new exchange?

15:25:49 ThickAsThieves: how

15:26:44 mrwdunne: First in the UK to have access to UK banking. Immediate advantages to competitors

15:27:08 mrwdunne: (UK banking has free and instant transfers)

15:27:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.04233333 = 0.127 BTC [+] {3}

15:28:23 mrwdunne: *immediate advantages over competitors

15:28:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 18 @ 0.07179111 = 1.2922 BTC [+] {2}

15:28:31 mircea_popescu: mrwdunne srsly, it's not the first in any sense, forget about that angle.

15:28:38 mircea_popescu: all it does is telegraph noobishness.

15:29:19 mrwdunne: mircea_popescu Which other ones are still running?

15:29:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07198 = 1.0797 BTC [+]

15:29:32 mircea_popescu: so are you going to make the first roman empire, too ?

15:29:46 mrwdunne: True, first might be the wrong word. Regardless it is the only

15:30:17 ThickAsThieves: why use either as a quality?

15:30:30 ThickAsThieves: first, only, all bullshit

15:30:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07198237 = 0.5759 BTC [+] {2}

15:30:58 mrwdunne: Only is not at all bullshit, although yes first is the wrong word

15:31:06 ThickAsThieves: well only what?

15:31:23 ThickAsThieves: being the only human on island doesnt make you valuable

15:31:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00094843 = 3.3195 BTC [+]

15:31:43 mrwdunne: Only exchange with access to the UK banking network. That does make you valuable

15:31:54 mircea_popescu: mrwdunne only also telegraphs noobishness. you're too new in this game to know, but nothing is valuable in any market unless and until it has ocmpetitors.

15:32:12 mircea_popescu: noob founders try to pitch onlyness to vcs all the time, innocent of the plain obvious fact that it's a disqualifier.

15:33:08 mrwdunne: mircea_popescu I have read through your posts on bitcointalk already. You pitch that if someone is competent and the idea has potential that is what matters. I am the only person who has managed to get the account

15:33:15 mrwdunne: That is why no one else has done it

15:33:28 ThickAsThieves: i think you missed the points

15:33:46 mircea_popescu: mrwdunne i never posted on btctalk.

15:34:10 fluffypony: mrwdunne: every entrepreneur pitching a business says that their product is a special and unique snowflake the likes of which have not been seen from the beginning of time until now, no nor shall be seen again...that's not a compelling reason for customers to move en-masse to your exchange

15:35:10 mrwdunne: Offering free, instant bank transfers however is a reason to move en-masse. Being the only may not directly be the selling point, however that is a very valid advantage

15:35:26 mrwdunne: And mircea_popescu, sorry, I assumed this was you; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0

15:36:02 ThickAsThieves: i'll tell you, bank transfer fees are of little concern to notable buyers

15:36:09 ThickAsThieves: so i save $20

15:36:11 ThickAsThieves: big deal

15:36:30 ThickAsThieves: that doesnt erase that you are new

15:36:40 ThickAsThieves: and of unknown reputation

15:36:49 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves I agree, to significant buyers it is not an issue. However it is a significant advantage to significant amounts of smaller buyers.

15:36:52 mircea_popescu: ever clicked on her signature ?

15:37:00 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves reputation is something that can be earned

15:37:20 ThickAsThieves: have you earned it?

15:37:47 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves No, not yet

15:38:10 ThickAsThieves: what makes a UK exchange ideal over an EU one?

15:38:19 ThickAsThieves: like why is yours better than say https://bitcoin-central.net/

15:38:37 kakobrekla: FCA :D

15:38:48 mrwdunne: Free, instant bank transfers. Perfect regulatory environment for an exchange as there are no AML/KYC requirements.

15:38:57 mrwdunne: kakobrekla Yes, to a degree

15:39:08 ThickAsThieves: Perfect regulatory environment for an exchange as there are no AML/KYC requirements.?

15:39:16 mircea_popescu: mrwdunne dude seriously. you've been running this for what, six weeks ?

15:39:20 ThickAsThieves: none you acknowledge, or none that exist?

15:39:28 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves None that exist

15:39:35 mircea_popescu: a perfect chair that's not been sat into is no sort of advantage. those things will count in five years.

15:39:38 ThickAsThieves: so i can money launder at will in the UK?

15:39:52 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves no you cannot. There are just no reporting requirements

15:39:57 mircea_popescu: fuck, even nefario had a "perfect" regulatory environment for an exchange

15:40:02 mircea_popescu: he said so, to people, at his lolconference

15:40:09 mircea_popescu: two weeks before obscurely shutting down.

15:40:20 mrwdunne: Nefario was a scammer, essentially

15:40:29 ThickAsThieves: whats the distinction, how does AML exist if it doesnt exist?

15:40:50 mircea_popescu: mrwdunne he was an idiot, just like you are.

15:41:02 Naphex: mrwdunne: before i got splitted, i asked what is your defense against bank fraud considering 'instant' bank transfers?

15:41:05 mircea_popescu: unlike you, he didn't have the benefit of -assets existing.

15:41:07 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves it does not exist for bitcoin exchanges in the UK, according to the FCA. We have no legal obligation to collect identification (we will be, but not for small buyers)

15:41:13 fluffypony: lawl - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584283.0 - "Private message me if interested. Include in your message a personalized (custom) messaged signed from an address with at least $100,000 USD worth of bitcoins contained to prove qualification."

15:41:16 Naphex: as in hacked bank accounts, or clients wanting reversals because they inputed by mistake too many 0's

15:41:22 ThickAsThieves: you are not just a bitcoin exchange though

15:41:26 ThickAsThieves: you process cash too

15:41:57 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves remarkably I have actually spoken with the FCA about this, as opposed to just reading their manuals.

15:42:25 ThickAsThieves: did they provide anything in writing for you?

15:42:31 ThickAsThieves: some kind of exemption or such?

15:43:02 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves I have it in writing that they do not, and have no intention to regulate any bitcoin exchange

15:43:11 mrwdunne: Not an exemption

15:43:12 ThickAsThieves: care to share?

15:44:02 mrwdunne: This is already public knowledge, however I confirmed it with them. Hell I think coindesk did an article on it

15:44:10 ThickAsThieves: so show me

15:44:12 ThickAsThieves: i'm a noob

15:44:39 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-regulation-uk/

15:44:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.502 BTC [-]

15:45:02 mrwdunne: (That is not our private correspondence with them however)

15:45:33 ThickAsThieves: this is some bumfuck logic no? "However the FCA has not offered any constructive guidance or comment on the regulation of digital currencies. In fact, the FCA has gone as far as stating it does not regulate digital currencies and has no intention of doing so. The result is that bitcoin businesses in the UK are not obliged to register with or be authorised by the FCA."

15:46:03 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves Sorry, I don't know what you mean by bumfuck logic

15:46:05 jurov: mrwdunne: but you are not bitcoin-only business

15:46:22 mrwdunne: jurov We got further confirmation from them behind closed doors

15:46:22 jurov: you'll be holding your customer's pounds

15:46:54 ThickAsThieves: the text specifies crypto itself

15:47:01 ThickAsThieves: not the buying or selling of it for fiat

15:47:14 mrwdunne: The article specifies crypto itself. We are not basing our compliance on an article

15:47:28 ThickAsThieves: look at it from a real world view

15:47:37 ThickAsThieves: can people launder money through your business?

15:47:39 mircea_popescu: 50.02315578 << jd finally fixed itself!

15:47:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.07199807 = 0.72 BTC [+] {4}

15:47:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0001291 = 0.1291 BTC [-]

15:48:10 ThickAsThieves: (launder fiat, specifically)

15:49:13 mircea_popescu: pankkake btw, explain pif to me ?

15:49:40 mrwdunne: ThickAsThieves No, we will be complying with the KYC/AML laws regardless.

15:49:41 pankkake: it's just not investing

15:49:53 jurov: recently there was this type of scam around: A buys from B something, B gives to A his exchange E's bank account

15:49:54 jurov: A then sends fiat to E, B exchanges them for bitcoins and vanishes without giving A anything

15:49:55 mircea_popescu: a just hold teh coins ?

15:49:56 jurov: A asks his bank to reverse payment.. what will you (E) do?

15:49:59 pankkake: yes :)

15:50:03 mircea_popescu: lol cool.

15:50:31 mircea_popescu: jurov recently in the sense of... since 2000 :)

15:50:32 mrwdunne: Jurov There are ways of ensuring deposits are not reversed.

15:50:33 ThickAsThieves: panbankke

15:50:36 Naphex: jurov, asked that too.. even hacked bank accounts

15:50:44 ThickAsThieves: bankkake

15:51:06 mircea_popescu: Naphex last numbers i've seen, about 85bn try to move through triangular transfers a year worldwide.

15:51:10 pankkake: I wonder what a bankkake would be…

15:51:11 mircea_popescu: about half manage to.

15:51:20 fluffypony: bank-bake

15:51:22 ThickAsThieves: sperm bank obv

15:51:24 Naphex: !up mircea_popescu

15:51:24 assbot: Voicing mircea_popescu without time-limit.

15:51:31 pankkake: nice

15:51:37 Naphex: !up mrwdunne

15:51:37 assbot: Voicing mrwdunne for 30 minutes.

15:51:47 mrwdunne: Thank you Naphex

15:52:02 ThickAsThieves: !down mircea_popescu

15:52:02 assbot: ThickAsThieves, you can't do that to mircea_popescu.

15:52:12 mike_c: !up mike_c

15:52:12 assbot: Really, mike_c?

15:52:19 ThickAsThieves: but what CAN i do to mircea_popescu?

15:52:20 mike_c: ooh, assbot got brains now.

15:52:45 mike_c: !up ThickAsThieves

15:52:45 assbot: Voicing ThickAsThieves without time-limit.

15:52:51 mike_c: !down ThickAsThieves

15:52:51 assbot: mike_c, you can't do that to ThickAsThieves.

15:53:11 mike_c: !kissmyass assbot

15:53:13 mircea_popescu: if tat were a girl it should say "munch munch munch"

15:53:25 ThickAsThieves: mike_c here's the website for the software guys http://cryptosysinc.com/ (the printout i shared in Timis)

15:53:43 ThickAsThieves: he was here earlier and will likely be back to hang out

15:53:56 ThickAsThieves: hopefully wotted up and such

15:54:20 mircea_popescu: ciil

15:54:22 mike_c: site needs moar css

15:54:23 asciilifeform: java ?!

15:54:41 Naphex: java is good

15:55:05 fluffypony: asciilifeform: ikr

15:55:13 Naphex: a good tool :]

15:55:34 fluffypony: Naphex: a sledgehammer is an amazing tool, but you try cutting a medium-rare steak with it

15:55:34 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

15:55:36 mike_c: ThickAsThieves: it looks like they are in no way biting off too much ;)

15:55:50 Naphex: fluffypony: ofc same with everything :]

15:55:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]

15:56:08 Naphex: but java gets you lots of bonuses early, when working on anything mid-size

15:56:25 mircea_popescu: fluffypony well if you flail it around fast enough you could generate enough plasma to cut a steak...

15:56:27 Naphex: speeds up development, keeps it tidy

15:56:32 fluffypony: hah hah

15:56:41 Naphex: you can JNI plug and do some C to make it faster

15:56:47 mircea_popescu: so what is this publicly traded corp you c'd for ?

15:57:09 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: the Altech Group

15:57:14 fluffypony: http://www.altech.com

15:57:24 mircea_popescu: decimation: but the "recovery" is great guys, just some snow, no problems here << in fairness, they were overissuing

15:57:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4819 @ 0.00094843 = 4.5705 BTC [+]

15:58:32 mircea_popescu: hm. ATNP is atlantis

15:58:39 mircea_popescu: where is this listed, sa se ?

15:59:16 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: JSE (Johannesburg Stock Exchange), which is our equivalent of the NYSE

15:59:46 mircea_popescu: JSE:ATNP allied ?

16:00:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.59776300 BTC to 7`210 shares, 36030 satoshi per share

16:00:07 asciilifeform: looks like they make cable boxes.

16:00:18 fluffypony: ah - http://www.bdlive.co.za/business/technology/2013/08/21/altech-delists-from-jse-after-buyout-by-parent-altron

16:00:20 fluffypony: delisted now

16:01:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 61.04601580 BTC to 80`674 shares, 75670 satoshi per share

16:01:43 fluffypony: worst two years of my life, so much discord and backstabbing and dick-measuring among their management

16:02:06 mircea_popescu: seem to be on an acquisition spree now, and pumping per share earnings

16:02:20 fluffypony: they're always on an acquisition spree

16:02:27 fluffypony: they got lucky early on with a couple of smart acquisitions

16:02:35 fluffypony: which then funded every acquisition

16:03:00 fluffypony: so then they buy stupidly, and if a company gets folded into your division/company you're fucked trying to integrate staff that don't want to be there

16:03:06 mircea_popescu: so what's your name again ?

16:03:08 fluffypony: especially management staff that are defunct

16:03:15 fluffypony: Riccardo Spagni

16:06:27 mircea_popescu: nice to meet you.

16:06:45 fluffypony: :)

16:07:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0719999 = 0.144 BTC [+]

16:08:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.0719999 = 0.648 BTC [+]

16:10:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 55 @ 0.070803 = 3.8942 BTC [-] {3}

16:13:55 mircea_popescu: lol family concern of the venters, 1k p/e

16:13:59 mircea_popescu: what sort of lolcompany is this

16:14:49 fluffypony: it's ridiculous, daddy is smart and started a company, and then basically gave his sons companies and shitloads of money

16:15:03 fluffypony: Altech is successful in spite of its CEO, not because of it

16:15:29 fluffypony: !voice mrstickball

16:15:50 fluffypony: !up mrstickball

16:15:50 assbot: Voicing mrstickball for 30 minutes.

16:15:51 fluffypony: that thing

16:16:08 Blazedout419: sup mrstickball

16:16:20 mrstickball: lots and lots of work

16:16:22 mrstickball: as always

16:16:28 Blazedout419: that is a good thing

16:16:32 mrstickball: turns out, there's a new crypto-security that is based out of Grove City

16:16:34 mircea_popescu: so who replaced you ?

16:16:36 mrstickball: so I am gonna meet with him soon

16:18:32 mrstickball: !up Mrstickball

16:18:32 assbot: Insufficient rights, mrstickball, !up yourself on PM first.

16:18:52 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: no clue, I left just before they folded Swistech into ISIS (Oct 2012), so whoever ended up managing that process would have been my replacement

16:19:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.07066246 = 0.9186 BTC [-] {4}

16:19:23 mircea_popescu: anyway, this added an obscure foreign lolcorp for my shortlist

16:19:47 mrstickball: Blazedout419: look into Adeally... They're out of Grove City

16:20:04 mrstickball: its somewhat interesting. Not their business as much as they are using Counterparty

16:20:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.03251 = 0.2601 BTC [+]

16:20:25 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: shortlist of companies never to deal with or invest in? coz that's where they should be on:-P

16:20:32 Blazedout419: ;;gettrust mrstickball

16:20:32 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask mrstickball!uid14687@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhdulznzsjnbbbyc. Trust relationship from user Blazedout419 to user mrstickball: Level 1: 5, Level 2: 3 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=Blazedout419&dest=mrstickball | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickball | Rated since: Fri Jul 5 18:09:54 2013

16:20:40 mrwdunne: Is that the online store? The one that valued themselves at several million?

16:20:46 Blazedout419: I woud think you can !up your self?

16:20:55 mrstickball: I can now, I think

16:21:00 mrstickball: mrwdunne: yeah, I think so

16:21:08 mrstickball: its a crypto penny auction site

16:21:18 mrwdunne: mrstickball It seemed like an interesting idea. But not worth close to that much

16:21:20 mircea_popescu: fluffypony no, just to keep short positions in

16:21:22 mrstickball: not the best plan per-se in terms of what it is, but the PPM and DD look good

16:21:32 fluffypony: ah ok

16:21:33 mrstickball: so its a weird combination of great plan, bad idea

16:21:48 mircea_popescu: once mr w croaks that thing's gone.

16:23:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.0706 = 0.5648 BTC [-]

16:24:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.00094897 = 8.1611 BTC [+] {3}

16:24:52 mrstickball: !voice mrwdunne

16:25:16 mrstickball: !up mrwdunne

16:25:16 assbot: Voicing mrwdunne for 30 minutes.

16:25:24 mrwdunne: Thank you mrstick

16:25:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.042 = 0.126 BTC [-] {2}

16:25:50 mrstickball: now we need a counterparty ticker..

16:26:48 fluffypony: who is this minerpart cat?

16:27:48 mircea_popescu: unclear.

16:27:55 mrwdunne: No one who seems very significant at this point in time

16:28:17 jurov: !up chetty

16:28:17 assbot: Voicing chetty for 30 minutes.

16:29:04 mrstickball: You can pull out the BTC from when people buy into your company, correct mrwdunne ?

16:29:11 mrwdunne: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=148712 Reputation isn't very good

16:29:12 ozbot: Login

16:29:17 mrwdunne: And mrstickball yes you can

16:29:24 mrwdunne: *yes I can

16:29:25 numerisTrade: hello

16:29:27 numerisTrade: do you have any experience with ititch.com (or can recommend any other bitcoin domain registrar)?

16:29:38 mrwdunne: namecheap.com is excellent numeristrade

16:30:00 mircea_popescu: or at least used to be. i dunno anyone used it itches thingee, so you get to be the first.

16:30:29 artifexd: When will trading of s.mpif begin?

16:30:45 mircea_popescu: prolly next week

16:31:15 mircea_popescu: the idea being that it'll have its first report before the 5th, and that'll allow a nav, and then it can trade.

16:31:36 artifexd: ty

16:31:37 numerisTrade: mircea_popescu, is there any domain registrar you can recommend? What is wrong with namecheap.com?

16:32:22 mike_c: piffy nav is ~250 btc?

16:32:51 mircea_popescu: they were really great, but recently did a dumbass websiute redesign breaking everything. i bitched about it, they fixed some things, what can i say. nothing good endures

16:33:05 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/namecheap-goes-off-the-deep-end-anyone-know-a-decent-domain-registrar/ < the long version if you care.

16:33:06 ozbot: Namecheap goes off the deep end. Anyone know a decent domain registrar ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mir

16:33:18 mircea_popescu: mike_c should be about 200ish on start yes.

16:34:41 mircea_popescu: numerisTrade anyway, definitely a better bet than godaddy, which is unequivocally atrocious. maybe enom if you have a direct contract with them.

16:35:57 mircea_popescu: decimation: re: amazon, I've heard it's a tough life working there << but it's a large corp. of course they'd be managing the fuck out of all cost, neh ? afaik google is pretty much the only giant still trying to play the startup, otherwise even apple is bezos-ing it away.

16:36:22 bounce: http://mises.org/daily/2542 seems to say that the whole "unenforeable contracts" thing isn't that new

16:36:22 ozbot: The Enterprise of Customary Law - Bruce L. Benson - Mises Daily

16:37:09 ThickAsThieves: The verdict is in, unless i'm ready to move to Romania, and/or MPEx blocks US customers, and/or I register as a broker/dealer with SEC, I must decline the MPIF mgr position due to legal concerns. Even then, it'd take a combination of those to have any remote chance of safety. :(

16:37:27 mircea_popescu: forward soviet!

16:37:44 ThickAsThieves: i need to gtfo usg

16:37:47 numerisTrade: thank you, mircea_popescu, for link and help

16:37:47 ThickAsThieves: :(

16:37:50 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: move to South Africa

16:38:17 bounce: well, then gtfo usg

16:38:22 fluffypony: we basically have no laws of real worth, and those that could possible get in your way seem to disappear at the wiff of money

16:38:44 ThickAsThieves: as an interesting aside, my lawyer, a former US Attorney, has expressed interest in coming here tp pick your brain MP

16:38:45 fluffypony: (not quite that bad, but it's a little wild-westish)

16:38:53 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: get on the fscking plane.

16:39:07 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves am i to charge him retainer ? :D

16:39:16 ThickAsThieves: hehe

16:39:26 ThickAsThieves: i told him "on YOUR time, not mine!"

16:39:31 bounce: isn't there a private jet thing for this sort of situation yet?

16:40:01 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: optionally - on the boat.

16:40:21 bounce: slow boat out of america

16:40:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07111 = 0.2133 BTC [+]

16:40:41 mircea_popescu: who's the guy that crossed pacific in a barrel ?

16:40:55 bounce: great opportunity to catch up with the reading. *is a bit swamped*

16:40:56 ThickAsThieves: Super Mario?

16:41:41 bounce: can't trust a thing that guy claims, he's clearly on shroomz

16:41:43 asciilifeform: my puny brain boggles at folks who can afford to rocket out and still don't

16:41:44 ThickAsThieves: so anyone have any great leads on jobs in animal conservation in non-US countries?

16:42:04 bounce: "self preservation" ought to count *gdr*

16:42:09 mircea_popescu: fluffypony should be able to hook you up

16:42:13 BingoBoingo: http://it.slashdot.org/story/14/04/25/1227204/hp-server-killer-firmware-update-on-the-loose

16:42:13 ozbot: HP Server Killer Firmware Update On the Loose - Slashdot

16:42:20 mircea_popescu: his blondy looks like she's doing lots of animal conservationing :D

16:42:23 fluffypony: lol

16:42:32 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yes, she can come here and look after our dogs, we have 6 of them

16:42:38 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:42:44 fluffypony: seriously tho, there are a bunch of programs

16:42:46 ThickAsThieves: more like saving rhinos and okapi

16:42:55 fluffypony: but they're pretty stupid because you pay them to be a volunteer worker

16:43:00 fluffypony: which seems insane

16:43:05 ThickAsThieves: she actually works for one that runs the Okapi Conservation Project

16:43:12 ThickAsThieves: except no way am i moving to the COngo

16:43:17 mircea_popescu: why the fuck not ?

16:43:24 ThickAsThieves: butt rape?

16:43:26 bounce: probably more effective to start a militia/hire a bunch of trigger happy goons/whatever and do some "long pig hunting" on poachers

16:43:32 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: the Congo's a tough haul for a white guy

16:43:39 mircea_popescu: he's not white.

16:43:44 ThickAsThieves: white enough

16:43:53 ThickAsThieves: worse, i'm portuguese

16:43:54 Naphex: bbl

16:43:55 mircea_popescu: he's just shy. these are not the same :D

16:43:58 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: anyone not tall, dark, and French speaking is white to them ;)

16:44:05 ThickAsThieves: we raped africa plenty

16:44:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves be a man, take the wife to the congo.

16:44:45 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:44:55 ThickAsThieves: teh peer pressure in thizs place!

16:44:58 mircea_popescu: worst that can happen is you end up dead. which will happen anyway.

16:45:00 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: in all seriousness, there are a number of really good programs out here that are always looking for help - I think I linked to these guys the other day, but in case not: http://www.jukani.co.za

16:45:19 asciilifeform: 'coward dies a thousand deaths, brave man - one'

16:45:45 ThickAsThieves: luck can separate the brave from the fools

16:45:50 mrwdunne: I think people prefer to live for longer though. Definitely go and do some charity in Africa though - its a great experience

16:46:03 moiety: mew

16:46:09 bitcoinpete: asciilifeform: hail!

16:46:11 ThickAsThieves: but yknow i will bring up visiting Africa

16:46:31 ThickAsThieves: does S Africa have MLAT with US?

16:46:41 moiety: <ThickAsThieves> so anyone have any great leads on jobs in animal conservation in non-US countries? << manuls obviously

16:46:41 fluffypony: mlat?

16:46:47 fluffypony: oh googled

16:46:58 bounce: depends on what you think is "charity". plenty of the oh-so-selfless white influence hasn't done the continent a bit of good

16:46:59 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you don't bring it up. you go home and say "woman, we're leaving for the congo. pack stockings and tank tops, and read up on slim's guide to cook for bogart"

16:47:16 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/124466.pdf

16:47:18 fluffypony: so it would seem

16:47:39 ThickAsThieves: these USGs be so insidious

16:47:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.07031794 = 0.7032 BTC [-]

16:48:23 ThickAsThieves: mp, to say as much would be to decide whether divorce is the answer

16:48:31 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: stay in usa - and perhaps we'll meet in our common gasenwagen.

16:48:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves women have this endless capacity to pleasantly surprise.

16:48:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0711095 = 0.1422 BTC [+] {2}

16:48:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00094958 = 2.9437 BTC [+]

16:49:11 moiety: finally, someone noticed!

16:49:22 mircea_popescu: i knew it all along kitten.

16:49:23 fluffypony: looks like there's mutual extradition in place, but that they've refused to extradite before for a guy that could possibly have received the death penalty

16:49:30 fluffypony: "This infringed Mohamed's rights to human dignity, to life, and not to be punished in a cruel, inhuman or degrading manner. The Constitutional Court concluded that the handing over of Mohamed to the US government was unlawful"

16:49:50 mircea_popescu: fluffypony i wonder how much that cost.

16:50:11 fluffypony: lol

16:50:12 mrwdunne: What charges were they extraditing him on?

16:50:25 asciilifeform: russia doesn't extradite (anybody) but you might have other problems (Have Problems (TM)) there.

16:50:33 fluffypony: "Mohamed, a Tanzanian national, fled to South Africa after his involvement in the 1998 bombing of the US embassy in Dar-es-Salaam."

16:50:43 mircea_popescu: lmao

16:50:57 mircea_popescu: so they have an agreement, which they can't use to extradite terrorists ?

16:51:01 mircea_popescu: whoa how very fart reaching.

16:51:02 fluffypony: pretty much

16:51:20 mrwdunne: US doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to human rights and terrorism. Their judgement was probably the correct one

16:51:23 moiety: mircea_popescu: totally forgot i was due you cookies http://i.imgur.com/rswbqJI.jpg

16:51:31 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: before you move setup a fake murder in the US, and then if they try extradite you you can just claim that the death penalty is a possibility

16:51:33 fluffypony: problem solved

16:51:44 mircea_popescu: ahahah bears.

16:52:10 mircea_popescu: fluffypony you are clearly well qualified to give legal advice :D

16:52:13 ThickAsThieves: thats some fucked up legal system

16:52:20 ThickAsThieves: incentive to terrorize

16:52:24 moiety: :D yeah i havent found a manul cutter yet -- epic job for a 3D printer i reckon

16:52:30 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: clearly :-P

16:52:37 mircea_popescu: now who was i owing cookies to ? benkay ? kakobrekla ?

16:52:44 mircea_popescu: mike ain't getting one, he's rotund as it is.

16:52:44 ThickAsThieves: davout

16:53:00 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i don't trust davout. his girl only rated him a 3.

16:53:07 ThickAsThieves: mike aint rotund, he just has a jolly face

16:53:14 kakobrekla: not that id get any, but i dont like cookies :(

16:53:27 moiety: you'll be needing more then http://i.imgur.com/jKKEEjY.jpg these are actually shortbread mid-sugaring

16:53:29 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla well we're all out of tits.

16:53:34 asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: ianal, but is owning foreign stock actually banned in usa?

16:53:42 mircea_popescu: !up quantyfikator

16:53:42 assbot: Voicing quantyfikator for 30 minutes.

16:53:51 kakobrekla: asciilifeform arent you getting out?

16:53:57 ThickAsThieves: asciilifeform, no thats not the issue

16:54:01 ThickAsThieves: but

16:54:14 ThickAsThieves: you are obligated to report any foreign account with more than $10k

16:54:27 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i'd -like- to get out. that's quite different from actually escaping.

16:54:54 chetty: you can run but cannot hide

16:54:56 moiety: kakobrekla: i'll make savoury ones for you

16:54:58 benkay: mircea_popescu: i already got my cookie. but it was a different cookie.

16:55:12 ThickAsThieves: ascii with your brains and my tongue we could surive easily in any place

16:55:29 ThickAsThieves: thats sounds dirty

16:55:30 ThickAsThieves: lol

16:55:36 asciilifeform: chetty: reminiscent of traditional american saying: 'don't run from a sniper, you'll just die tired'

16:55:53 kakobrekla: asciilifeform working on it or only wishing ?

16:56:00 mircea_popescu: benkay nookie == cookie ?

16:56:16 moiety: vagina == cookie

16:56:27 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: you saw some of the work. so decide for yourself.

16:56:46 mike_c: rotund! perhaps, but i am also strong like bull. all you scrawny europeans couldn't bench press a girl.

16:57:01 mircea_popescu: mike_c i could benchpress any girl i;d care to fuck.

16:57:05 mircea_popescu: i know this, because... guess.

16:57:16 ThickAsThieves: you fuck only men?

16:57:20 mike_c: that's like short guys saying they don't like tall women. very self serving.

16:57:48 mircea_popescu: mike_c that's my middle name, m self serving p.

16:58:48 benkay: what's the middle name in a four name name? lol

16:58:57 mircea_popescu: lol

16:59:03 mircea_popescu: !up chetty

16:59:03 assbot: Voicing chetty for 30 minutes.

16:59:15 chetty: ty

16:59:37 benkay: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/maidsafe-wildly-successful-crypto-crowdsale-debacle/ << scammers accept mastercoin and bitcoin hoping mastercoin's too derpy for people to use, end up getting all msc go 'no no no you see we actually want your btc'

16:59:46 mircea_popescu: i quote, "<chetty> well you be glad to hear we're finally back to active programing on eulora - but right now need to hit the store for weekend supplies of milk and coffee - back in a bit"

16:59:54 mircea_popescu: figure you folks prolly care too!

16:59:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.07031794 = 0.7735 BTC [-] {2}

17:00:06 mircea_popescu: benkay lmao

17:00:46 asciilifeform: squadron of coffee to program converters?

17:01:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 18 @ 0.07 = 1.26 BTC [-] {3}

17:01:08 ThickAsThieves: “I think it’s a really interesting area," Cook said. "We have almost 800 million iTunes accounts and the majority of those have credit cards behind them. We already have people using Touch ID to buy things across our store, so it’s an area of interest to us. And it’s an area where nobody has figured it out yet.

17:01:08 ThickAsThieves: "I realize that there are some companies playing in it, but you still have a wallet in your back pocket and I do too which probably means it hasn’t been figured out just yet.” ~Tim Cook

17:01:09 benkay: why weren't they converting coffee to program in the first place, mircea_popescu ?

17:01:16 mircea_popescu: milk is probably for enticing manuls or something

17:01:58 asciilifeform: in argentina, there is 'pampas cat' instead

17:02:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19769 @ 0.00094804 = 18.7418 BTC [-]

17:02:02 asciilifeform: very similar-looking beast

17:02:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is, but moiety will never get to know.

17:02:19 asciilifeform: ;;google pampas cat

17:02:19 gribble: Pampas cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pampas_cat; Pampas Cat Facts - Big Cat Rescue: http://bigcatrescue.org/pampas-cat-facts/; Pampas cat videos, photos and facts - Leopardus colocolo | ARKive: http://www.arkive.org/pampas-cat/leopardus-colocolo/

17:02:51 asciilifeform: moiety could also escape, meet pampas cat.

17:02:54 benkay: <bitcoinpete> taleb's on a roll right now << link?

17:02:58 moiety: i like them too! they have stripy legs!

17:03:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 9000 @ 0.0001291 = 1.1619 BTC [-]

17:03:22 moiety: this is actually what got me thinking on expanding to a felinae site

17:03:25 mircea_popescu: ima pay 1 btc to taleb and 1 btc to whoever gets him to come here.

17:03:26 asciilifeform: ;;google colocolo cat

17:03:27 gribble: Colocolo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colocolo; Pampas cat videos, photos and facts - Leopardus colocolo | ARKive: http://www.arkive.org/pampas-cat/leopardus-colocolo/; Leopardus colocolo (Chilean Pampa Cat, Pampas Cat): http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/15309/0

17:03:51 bitcoinpete: benkay: same as the one posted the last few times in here: http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/notebook.htm

17:04:24 benkay: bitcoinpete: that's the footnotes to FBR?

17:04:28 benkay: (those're)

17:04:31 mircea_popescu: also in s.mpif news : juraj whom you know as jurov has accepted to take over pc #5.

17:05:05 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: un défi!

17:05:13 jurov: yes

17:05:40 moiety: do you get crazy [wild]cat ladies? if so, i need a tshirt

17:05:44 bitcoinpete: benkay: the notebook is like his blog, a running tally

17:05:46 benkay: ;;later tell ThickAsThieves may i help you, sir?

17:05:47 ThickAsThieves: grats jurov

17:05:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:06:09 benkay: ;;later tell ThickAsThieves ah i see you wanted me to talk to MichalisBTC?

17:06:10 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:06:14 ThickAsThieves: yeah

17:06:20 ThickAsThieves: he'll be back probly

17:06:24 bitcoinpete: jurov: indeed, best of luck!

17:06:26 ThickAsThieves: but the website link is there

17:07:38 jurov: thx

17:07:59 jurov: asciilifeform, you mentioned some code to rape other bots? imma interested ;)

17:11:58 mircea_popescu: "44% of Americans are living with less than $5,887 in savings for a family of four" << fun fact ? most romanians own more than that.

17:12:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12201 @ 0.00094552 = 11.5363 BTC [-] {3}

17:16:20 mircea_popescu: so, i stopped by the doc today had my blood pressure measured. anyone care to guess ?

17:16:29 jurov: 120/80

17:16:41 mircea_popescu: (as a bonus hint, before retiring a good decade ago, i was doing something like 240/160)

17:16:50 jurov: 100/60 if you had an erection

17:17:04 mircea_popescu: lol j

17:17:22 fluffypony: ;;later tell davout just in case you have't seen this - http://www.pfhub.com/report-revenue-from-bitcoin-must-be-declared-to-french-authorities-602/

17:17:23 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:19:05 BingoBoingo: 135/90

17:19:07 mircea_popescu: dude the sa crew is actually doing a splendid job raping teh tardtalk forums

17:19:18 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo 130/90, you take the cake.

17:19:58 mircea_popescu: HeySteve: this place is becoming a real Dragon's Den, I'm thinking of writing something to that effect << by all means. maybe get nubbins to draw us all as pony dragons.

17:20:00 mircea_popescu: speaking of which

17:20:03 mircea_popescu: ;;seen nubbins

17:20:03 gribble: I have not seen nubbins.

17:20:05 mircea_popescu: ;;seen nubbins`

17:20:05 gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 0 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <nubbins`> you will need it if you don't want to have to download a client and python every time you boot

17:20:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00094751 = 4.5007 BTC [+]

17:20:21 mircea_popescu: omfg our untalented drawer / sausage maker guy is gone! WHERE!

17:20:39 BingoBoingo: Fell into sausage grinder with nailgun?

17:20:42 mircea_popescu: come back nubsy we need ourselves drawn as flying dragon princesses

17:20:48 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: which SA crew?

17:20:59 mircea_popescu: fluffypony not sa as in south africa, sa as in something awful

17:21:03 fluffypony: oh lol

17:21:06 mircea_popescu: which admittedly is an easy enough mistake to make.

17:23:47 mircea_popescu: !up veeminer

17:23:47 assbot: Voicing veeminer for 30 minutes.

17:24:28 ThickAsThieves: Java updates are a scam: yes/no

17:24:32 BingoBoingo: yes

17:24:48 fluffypony: yes

17:25:00 ThickAsThieves: seems they are just veiled ads

17:25:10 ThickAsThieves: and/or reports to the mothership

17:25:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16563 @ 0.00094834 = 15.7074 BTC [+] {2}

17:25:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0325 = 0.13 BTC [+]

17:25:41 fluffypony: I hate having to even have Java installed, but SuperMicro's IPMI requires it for remote console

17:25:59 mircea_popescu: fluffypony REFLASH IT

17:26:40 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: is there a non-Java IPMI bios available for their boards?

17:27:11 fluffypony: coz that shit irks me more than NameCheap's new design

17:28:15 mircea_popescu: nothing os afaik

17:28:24 fluffypony: leu sigh

17:28:56 mircea_popescu: they use what, vnc ?

17:29:16 fluffypony: I have nfi

17:29:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.0711097 = 0.4978 BTC [-] {3}

17:29:38 fluffypony: "The underlying protocol seems to be VNC, but with a different authentication scheme, making standard VNC clients useless. (Also it appears to be an OEM version of ATENs KVM/VNC stuff.)"

17:29:59 jurov: just use openjdk

17:30:00 mircea_popescu: what the hell useless. have your wizard rewrite the auth scheme

17:31:12 mircea_popescu: bs auth in-house giga scheme anyway, prolly more broken than a 50yo whore.

17:31:38 fluffypony: jurov: yeah I may just do that

17:32:20 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I think there are tons of undiscovered issues with all this non-standard IPMI shit, I'm waiting for something major to hit any time soon

17:32:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.508535 = 1.0171 BTC [+]

17:32:33 mircea_popescu: kinda why you have to have homebrew

17:32:38 mircea_popescu: for these sorts of shit.

17:33:02 fluffypony: yerp

17:35:04 veeminer: mircea_popescu: what?

17:35:35 mircea_popescu: going through the londerfull log of this mrwdune dood. did he at least have the sense to locate in Guernsey ?

17:35:42 mircea_popescu: !up heretostay

17:35:42 assbot: Voicing heretostay for 30 minutes.

17:35:48 mircea_popescu: veeminer sorry, what what ?

17:36:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51199997 BTC [+]

17:36:36 ThickAsThieves: in the butt

17:37:37 mircea_popescu: fluffypony: how your software will handle large volumes << that's the funniest thing i read today.

17:38:46 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: well the point being that he has to have some more details on the proposal other than "money plz, will spend on sekuriteez and kode"

17:38:51 fluffypony: "and data center"

17:38:58 mircea_popescu: no i know, but ...

17:39:00 mircea_popescu: you know.

17:39:17 BingoBoingo: http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/which-states-hate-themselves-the-most-1567602325/+reubenfb

17:39:18 fluffypony: I know

17:39:18 ozbot: Which States Hate Themselves The Most?

17:39:30 fluffypony: he could probably do it in PHP for the volume he's going to get

17:39:31 fluffypony: :-P

17:40:16 jurov: ;;bc,tslb

17:40:16 gribble: Error: "bc,tslb" is not a valid command.

17:40:20 jurov: ;;tslb

17:40:25 gribble: Time since last block: 38 minutes and 40 seconds

17:40:32 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did they leave out ny or am i blind

17:41:02 ThickAsThieves: 41%

17:41:06 BingoBoingo: Blind, New York was a 41%

17:41:10 ThickAsThieves: Montana and Alaska at 77%

17:41:43 mircea_popescu: aok

17:41:57 ThickAsThieves: Illinois at 19%

17:42:35 ThickAsThieves: they just miss Obama

17:42:59 mircea_popescu: lol

17:46:31 mircea_popescu: lol counterparty.co srsly ? "pls to trade your bitcoinz for very valuable xcp"

17:46:47 BingoBoingo: Chicago dragging down the good middle of nowhere we have

17:47:08 mircea_popescu: https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,289.msg2078


17:47:25 mircea_popescu: What Happened

17:47:25 mircea_popescu: Due in part to this process, we have been notified of a security bug in bitcoinjs-lib (the bitcoin javascript library counterwallet uses) that was internally disclosed to us by the bitcoinjs-lib team yesterday evening. We worked with them on applying a fix, which was made live late last night and this security notice was drafted pending confirmation from the team. However it appears the bug has already been exploited i

17:47:26 mircea_popescu: n the wild to take BTC.

17:47:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.50200001 = 1.004 BTC [-]

17:47:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 227 @ 0.0044 = 0.9988 BTC [-] {3}

17:48:28 mircea_popescu: somehow i seem to have missed this ? did bitcoinjs announce something ?

17:48:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50200001 BTC [-]

17:48:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 113 @ 0.0044 = 0.4972 BTC [-]

17:48:50 fluffypony: LOL

17:48:56 fluffypony: what a fail

17:49:08 mircea_popescu: wait, there's more.

17:49:10 mircea_popescu: "After scoring a major grant awarded by the Bitcoin Foundation, Coinpunk?s beta version is finally available. The project, which is being developed by the veteran startup founder Kyle Drake, intends to build the first fully open-source, self-hosted do-it-yourself Bitcoin wallet service that you can run on your own server."

17:49:40 mircea_popescu: "To reward the work of the developers, Drake is ?offering three bounties of 0.20 BTC each for anyone that finds and fixes (via pull request) any bugs/code issues that potentially cause wallet data loss, a major security bug in the Coinpunk wallet code (coinpunk/models/wallet.js), bitcoinjs-lib, or in the random number generation code?."

17:49:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6041 @ 0.00094962 = 5.7367 BTC [+]

17:49:57 mircea_popescu: the... wait for it... the random number generation code.

17:50:12 mircea_popescu: can i get a cup of coffee now ?

17:50:13 fluffypony: oh I saw that - it's a web wallet that you host yourself, because that seems like a great idea

17:50:33 fluffypony: because statistically speaking people know how to secure shitty/cheap VPS instances

17:50:44 ThickAsThieves: Now selling random numbers, .01 btc each!

17:50:46 jurov: it's a "wiggle mouse here" kind?

17:50:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50200001 BTC [-]

17:50:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 112 @ 0.0044 = 0.4928 BTC [-] {3}

17:51:03 mircea_popescu: but srsly, anyone heard of this major bitcoinjs-lib hole ?

17:51:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 71 @ 0.0044 = 0.3124 BTC [-] {3}

17:52:27 mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the rng of the java thing is particularly atrocious. piuk (blockchaininfo) made some fixes on a fork)

17:53:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.502 = 1.004 BTC [-]

17:53:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 327 @ 0.0044 = 1.4388 BTC [-] {4}

17:54:48 jurov: ;;tslb

17:54:53 gribble: Time since last block: 53 minutes and 9 seconds

17:55:00 jurov: zactly when i need it

17:55:09 asciilifeform: jurov: re: bots - consider some simple examples, you can probably think of

17:55:32 mircea_popescu: record

17:55:38 jurov: i did think of, and made countermeasures when i ran mine

17:55:56 jurov: but did not try to actively exploit

17:55:59 asciilifeform: jurov: e.g. if you can figure out that mr. whale runs bot with 'stop loss' at $x/btc, you can estimate resulting price move, effect on other such machines

17:56:07 asciilifeform: no rocket surgery, this

17:57:16 jurov: okay

17:58:07 asciilifeform: jurov: at the time i simply itched to write 'something with ai' that 'could money'

17:59:26 Naphex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0USm3AilHiU - good tune to start your fridays ;]

17:59:26 ozbot: ZHU - Moves Like Ms. Jackson (Outkast Cover) - YouTube

18:01:02 moiety: <fluffypony> coz that shit irks me more than NameCheap's new design << dude, glad it's not just me. i seriously thought i'd gone to the wrong place for a second

18:01:12 kakobrekla: did you try it live ascii?

18:01:22 Blazedout419: ebay

18:01:28 Blazedout419: woops wrong windows

18:01:58 fluffypony: moiety: their old interface wasn't pretty, but I'm buying a domain...I wouldn't mind an ncurses interface if it worked well

18:02:14 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: tried it on recorded data stream from 'btc-e'. 'won' on some segments, lost on others. then mp gave me a demo account on mpex, where bots do no good, and i lost interest

18:02:50 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if you actually find this interesting, i can say more

18:02:55 mrstickball: 1hr since last block..

18:03:00 mrstickball: what happens if it reaches 1MB?

18:03:01 asciilifeform: i sort of assumed that everybody here had tried their hand at such things personally

18:03:05 moiety: fluffypony: it now looks like a hipster site of some sort

18:03:07 kakobrekla: yes continiue

18:03:09 mrstickball: do all transactions go to the next block once its mined?

18:03:40 moiety: fluffypony: oh and i dont mind what the site is like, as long as it isn't godaddy tbf

18:03:42 fluffypony: moiety: yeah, until you need to manage a domain, then you have the old interface iframe'd in to the Hipster Header

18:03:59 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i concluded that one could actually do an interesting 'predator bot' if it has a heavy bag of coin to 'shake around' and cause (however small) price moves on demand.

18:03:59 mircea_popescu: ^

18:04:07 kakobrekla: well i did have some robots on btcusd back in the day but prolly nothing as sophisticated as you

18:04:20 mircea_popescu: fluffypony really they backed off over twitter threats and general discontent

18:04:26 mircea_popescu: you should have seen the original version

18:04:45 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: perhaps i'll test this hypothesis one day. right after my nuke sub, etc.

18:04:46 moiety: i actually have hosting with namecheap D:

18:04:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform trader experience is that any strategy that starts with "if you had a lot of money" is a loser.

18:05:03 BingoBoingo: ^

18:05:06 mircea_popescu: this is counter-intuitive perhaps, but quite true

18:05:18 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i believe it. notice i've no truck with any such thing at present.

18:05:20 fluffypony: moiety: I have a VPS with them that runs an Electrum server, and then all my international (non-.co.za) domains are with them

18:05:24 asciilifeform: don't recall how it came up.

18:05:28 kakobrekla: well with inifinite moneey theres no issue for sure

18:05:45 fluffypony: except for a handful of domain hacks for TLDs they don't offer

18:05:45 mircea_popescu: yeah. the master model of the preoblem is "cornering X market", such as the 5 i think to date attempts on silver/gold

18:05:46 asciilifeform: the point wasn't to merely 'with enough money' but specific target - dumb bots

18:05:48 moiety: when they opened up a uk data centre, they gave too good a deal. what i dont like is the hoops you have to jump through to get ssh access fluffypony

18:05:50 mircea_popescu: the copper pair and so forth

18:05:56 mircea_popescu: it NEVER works. it always seems like it just might.

18:06:05 fluffypony: moiety: is that for shared hosting or a VPS?

18:06:09 asciilifeform: i don't for a minute imagine it'd work against humans

18:06:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but that's always what it is, "dumb x". the mkt isnt dumb

18:06:30 moiety: just shared, im not in anyway ready for vps type affairs fluffypony XD im just getting to grips with ssh!

18:06:41 asciilifeform: i originally had the thought when noticing a proliferation of particularly dumb bots running on gox etc

18:06:42 fluffypony: ah ok ok :)

18:06:53 asciilifeform: many, with published source

18:06:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from a mathematical standpoint : the most important quality of markets is that you can't isolate participants.

18:07:00 asciilifeform: a very sorry sight, all of them

18:07:15 mircea_popescu: but yeah i remember that bs.

18:07:21 moiety: believe me when i have anything worth showing i'll be begging you all to take a tour :D (just be dont make me cry if im super proud!)

18:07:32 mircea_popescu: this was how mtgox managed to lose daytrading.

18:07:36 asciilifeform: in some particular cases (online poker table) you can in fact isolate the idiots (at least, long enough to squeeze juice)

18:07:47 asciilifeform: the idea was to engineer such a case

18:08:10 asciilifeform: but this is boring story.

18:08:12 kakobrekla: its impossible for me to do buy/sell bot on btc, im stuck in bull mode since ever, so my only game was straight forward arb

18:08:44 asciilifeform: i only tell it because i was foolish enough to mention it once here, and then kako asked 'how did it end'

18:08:47 mircea_popescu: anyone remember https://blockchain.info/address/1HKywxiL4JziqXrzLKhmB6a74ma6kxbSDj btw ?

18:08:58 kakobrekla: yeah blame it on kako

18:09:03 asciilifeform: lol

18:09:22 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla means "that's who she blamed" in slovenlyan right ?

18:09:33 kakobrekla: thats who she slandered

18:10:28 kakobrekla: whats that addy ?

18:10:41 fluffypony: kakobrekla: the Android Java RNG hack

18:10:43 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla remember the android hole last year ?

18:10:46 mircea_popescu: aye.

18:11:02 kakobrekla: the random() return 4; ?

18:11:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.49907271 BTC [-]

18:11:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.03154 = 0.1577 BTC [-] {2}

18:12:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 400 @ 0.0075 = 3 BTC [+]

18:12:12 kakobrekla: the damage is rather small

18:12:16 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: aye, and duplicate signature nonces, and the obvious consequences

18:12:49 kakobrekla: myea

18:13:06 mircea_popescu: MrWDunne: Also the actual business plan is a 25 page PDF << i like this part best so far.

18:13:10 asciilifeform: re: IPMI: lol let's put a piece of remote-controlled strange on the system bus.

18:13:23 asciilifeform: gonna be great.

18:14:08 kakobrekla: i parsed it as "25 kg PDF" for some reason

18:14:34 fluffypony: asciilifeform: yeah I know, but it's better than our dedicated box at a DC here where I have to log a fault and they send an engineer out to press enter on the keyboard because it's stuck at the grub screen

18:14:37 mircea_popescu: is it better for the pdf to be heavy or long ?

18:14:47 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i'm one of those weirdos who likes to print docs (mainly chip datashits) and has encountered 25kg pdfs.

18:14:57 kakobrekla: :D

18:15:22 fluffypony: I think it's important for PDFs to have images that haven't been compressed or resampled, because you really want that small logo at the top left to be a 2.5mb PNG

18:15:23 asciilifeform: fluffypony: an ordinary 'ip kvm' solves this

18:15:33 asciilifeform: the people pushing crap like ipmi have other motivations.

18:15:38 fluffypony: asciilifeform: agreed

18:16:23 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmFYGWkCMAE8CK6.jpg

18:16:33 mircea_popescu: russians caged like animals. art project.

18:16:50 mircea_popescu: fucking losers these kids. if i were 20 and doing a lulzy project like that, the russki'd be naked.

18:17:23 asciilifeform: lel

18:17:40 asciilifeform: 'djvu' is better format for scans, anyway

18:17:48 asciilifeform: 1/20th the size & rendering time

18:18:40 asciilifeform: a little like the diff. between 'mp3' and 'wav'

18:19:30 mircea_popescu: so romania has a large lawyer's forum, where pretty much everyone that's not fucktarded in the profession has an account. think fuckedcompany, except for lawyers.

18:19:32 mircea_popescu: http://www.avocatnet.ro/content/forum%7CdisplayTopicPage/topicID_423694/Vanzare-papagal-pentru-o-partida-de-sex-Cum-recuperez-pasarea.html

18:19:34 ozbot: Vanzare papagal pentru o partida de sex Cum recuperez pasarea? Pagina 1 - Forum, Avocatnet.ro

18:19:43 mircea_popescu: people ask for free advice all the time. some of the shit's pretty weird.

18:20:00 mircea_popescu: this guy threw a party, asked a girl to sleep with him, she said she'll do it if he's "generous"

18:20:08 mircea_popescu: except, she wants no money, he wants is macaw

18:20:11 mircea_popescu: so he gives it to her.

18:20:36 mircea_popescu: then, the next day, guy realises that the bird costs 2500 euro and besides, he had it since it was a chick and htey had a special relationship

18:21:01 mircea_popescu: so... can he sue ? should he report her for prostitution ? is there some fruits of the poisonous tree doctrine ?

18:21:05 mircea_popescu: hilarity ensues.

18:22:08 asciilifeform: sounds more like 'enjo kosai' than prostitution

18:22:57 mircea_popescu: he's got nothing there, nobody ever granted a cause for anything but the most outrageous streetwalking.

18:23:43 mircea_popescu: prostitution is , in the romanian legal tradition, a part of the creating a public disturbance/being a bum area.

18:24:16 asciilifeform: in english world, 'soliciting'

18:24:54 mircea_popescu: "soliciting while being poor, unpleasant and unattractive, in a loud and obnoxious manner"

18:25:48 asciilifeform: how else could it work.

18:26:03 asciilifeform: '... for if it prospers, none dare call it treason' etc

18:26:24 mircea_popescu: i guyess

18:26:43 mircea_popescu: i dunno, the us is no longer sane, so one feels bound to insist.

18:27:23 asciilifeform: wait this was in us?

18:27:36 mircea_popescu: no no but you are :D

18:27:40 asciilifeform: lol

18:27:42 mircea_popescu: hehehe

18:28:39 mircea_popescu: btw, anyone here with a lot of insurance experience or connections ?

18:29:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00094962 = 6.4574 BTC [+]

18:34:14 mircea_popescu: http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/17407-nra-to-push-national-reciprocity-for-concealed-carry-permit-holders?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

18:34:14 ozbot: NRA to push national reciprocity for concealed carry permit holders | United Liberty | Free Market -

18:34:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this has been an 'any day now' thing forever.

18:34:39 mircea_popescu: hey, if fags can be married everywhere regardless whether they married, why shouldn't rednecks carry wherever they go.

18:35:55 mircea_popescu: the strat is sound, that's how you push it.

18:36:05 ThickAsThieves: http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/01963/breast_1963596a.jpg

18:36:09 mircea_popescu: http://pagesix.com/2014/04/24/warren-buffet-ordered-dairy-queen-a-coke-at-four-seasons/

18:36:10 ozbot: Warren Buffet ordered Dairy Queen, a coke at Four Seasons | Page Six

18:36:22 mircea_popescu: i swear to god i'd have kicked him out.

18:36:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1400 @ 0.0009503 = 1.3304 BTC [+]

18:36:45 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves looks like the right tit for the job.

18:37:43 ThickAsThieves: "Sharon Spink is used to turning heads when she breastfeeds her daughter in public." lol

18:38:15 asciilifeform: 'buffet drinks the same coke as the beggar drinks' - literally true

18:38:17 mircea_popescu: sharon spink soulds like a super villain name

18:38:24 mircea_popescu: her power could be... i dunno, snatch.

18:38:49 ThickAsThieves: buffet resorts to shilling, another sign it's over

18:39:14 ThickAsThieves: The ketchup on my kobe better be Heinz!

18:39:44 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves prolly just codgery.

18:40:17 mircea_popescu: Meanwhile, ?pretty young things swarmed Warren as soon he walked through the doors, asking to have photos taken with him,? said one observer. ?He graciously did it. A few people asked him to open his wallet in the picture. Oddly enough, he did this too.? According to the onlooker, Buffett had ?just a few dollars in his wallet.? The source added, ?He?s more popular than the Dalai Lama!?

18:40:21 mircea_popescu: jesus these people.

18:40:27 kakobrekla: whats wrong with coke, its got sugar, caffeine and co2, all the bad shit you can have in one bottle

18:40:51 kakobrekla: the poison of choice

18:40:53 fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: what in actual...eugh...

18:41:17 fluffypony: remind me never to click on breast.jpg links from TAT

18:41:53 kakobrekla: i dun get the hate

18:42:30 kakobrekla: maybe because ima beggar .

18:42:41 ThickAsThieves: lil girl was thirsty, dont judge

18:44:20 jurov: be glad WB did not order frappucino

18:44:43 fluffypony: jurov: thus secretly revealing himself to be Karpeles' father?

18:44:54 fluffypony: s/father/grandfather

18:45:27 mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/TrZeKFXs << is this fud ?

18:45:27 ozbot: "About a week ago some colleagues and I discovered a set of x509 certificates wh - Pastebin.com

18:45:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00094933 = 4.3669 BTC [-] {2}

18:46:04 BingoBoingo: Hmmm... Who has windows?

18:46:33 fluffypony: BingoBoingo: I have an XP VM I can fire up

18:46:40 mircea_popescu: i don't have samples.

18:46:53 asciilifeform: 'nsakey'

18:47:01 fluffypony: oh XP is negative

18:47:03 fluffypony: nm

18:47:43 ThickAsThieves: i have some windows systems, but none are fresh

18:48:01 asciilifeform: first catch loch ness monster, then consider how to skin & stuff her.

18:51:44 ThickAsThieves: so ive had solar power for 3 days now, they come to collect check for install and say, hey yknow you should shut this off, because the new meter isnt installed by power co, it's actually making the count go up not down

18:52:05 ThickAsThieves: so basically i'm gonna be billed for like 400kw of power i gave to elec co

18:52:13 mircea_popescu: hahaha

18:52:34 mircea_popescu: wait you made 400kw in 3 days ?!

18:52:39 mircea_popescu: where the fuck do you live, the pentagon ?

18:52:56 ThickAsThieves: 340m i just checked it

18:53:03 ThickAsThieves: 340kwh

18:53:13 asciilifeform: let me guess, heat pump.

18:53:19 mircea_popescu: wtf.

18:53:26 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 340 / 3 / 24

18:53:27 gribble: 4.72222222222

18:53:33 mircea_popescu: 5kW installed ?

18:53:33 ThickAsThieves: we have 38 units on the roof

18:53:40 ThickAsThieves: 10k system

18:53:42 mircea_popescu: hey... more power to you.

18:53:45 ThickAsThieves: lol

18:53:53 ThickAsThieves: he says itll perform closer to 9

18:53:56 ThickAsThieves: per mo

18:54:11 jurov: i'd not use 24 hours in solar panel calculations

18:54:22 ThickAsThieves: no one would

18:54:24 mircea_popescu: lol

18:54:29 mircea_popescu: moonlight!

18:54:45 ThickAsThieves: oh you did

18:54:46 ThickAsThieves: hehe

18:54:54 asciilifeform: nah he's got an antipodal cable & 2nd set.

18:55:34 fluffypony: lol

18:55:44 fluffypony: that's how he gets news about China first?

18:55:58 fluffypony: best tin can phone ever

18:56:04 ThickAsThieves: guess how much the sys cost

18:56:18 ThickAsThieves: including hybrid water heater (not solar)

18:56:27 ThickAsThieves: $14k

18:56:35 ThickAsThieves: thank you obama

18:56:40 asciilifeform: gov.-subsidized, ah

18:56:46 mircea_popescu: lmao the derpage.

18:56:53 mircea_popescu: http://3w.blogidol.ro/2014/04/dmca-takedownvali-petcu-aka-zoso.html

18:56:54 ozbot: DMCA takedown–Vali Petcu aka Zoso | Blog Idol ro

18:57:14 fluffypony: wow, ThickAsThieves we'd pay $37k-ish for that here

18:57:23 mircea_popescu: tl;dr : blogger butthurt over blogger.com having deleted some pix off his blog. turns out... he had stolen them from some guy who had stolen them from fraudsters

18:57:28 ThickAsThieves: yeah it's $44k before rebates and shit

18:58:00 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves pretty sweet deal. i'd drop 15k on a 10kW solar system.

18:58:14 mircea_popescu: how much roof you got ? do they use all or just half ?

18:58:19 ThickAsThieves: half

18:58:19 fluffypony: likewise, in a heartbeat

18:58:31 ThickAsThieves: i was like i want more panelz!

18:58:40 mircea_popescu: what surface ?

18:58:47 moiety: that blogger is ridiculous btw

18:58:48 ThickAsThieves: ?

18:58:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: betcha you could buy a soviet rtg pod for <$10k

18:58:59 ThickAsThieves: facing east and south

18:59:02 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what surface is your roof

18:59:12 mircea_popescu: like, in sq fett

18:59:22 ThickAsThieves: no idea

18:59:36 mircea_popescu: zese marketing ppls.

18:59:38 ThickAsThieves: house is like 2700 sq ft if you incl garage

18:59:45 mircea_popescu: you live there! a ok so like 5k

18:59:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.0009503 = 8.3626 BTC [+]

18:59:59 mircea_popescu: pretty sweet.

19:00:44 mircea_popescu: they got a similar system here but it dopesn't cover 2/3 of the cost, more like 1/3, and the red tape is beyond obnoxious.

19:01:03 ThickAsThieves: the install co handled all red tape

19:01:10 ThickAsThieves: it's some kinda lottery thing

19:01:23 ThickAsThieves: where they have to bombard th computer system when lottery goes live

19:01:38 ThickAsThieves: we were like 8th on waiting list, which is basically a shoe-in

19:02:23 kakobrekla: actually a 50kw solar plat that i know of comes online with just over 50w on a clear night

19:02:59 kakobrekla: also moon.

19:03:03 mircea_popescu: :D

19:03:07 dooglus: https://just-dice.com/mpif tells you the current S.MPIF JD investment size

19:03:18 mircea_popescu: dooglus ah now that's some sweet coding

19:03:20 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: probably more from light pollution (city lights reflected down)

19:03:36 kakobrekla: no no asci its from the moonž

19:03:38 kakobrekla:

19:05:51 ThickAsThieves: dat jf mpif manager has great performance

19:05:55 ThickAsThieves: jd*

19:05:59 ThickAsThieves: give him a raise

19:06:01 fluffypony: dooglus: moiety would love if that had a responsive hipster layout with lots of CSS and jQuery

19:06:25 mircea_popescu: dooglus now if only cloudflare didn't redirect me to root

19:06:36 ThickAsThieves: install a button that let;s you up the font size too

19:06:54 mircea_popescu: 50.23890514 so wait omfg, this is up... 0.4% ?

19:07:00 Duffer1: ctrl + mousewheel TaT

19:07:07 ThickAsThieves: tis a jok

19:07:09 mircea_popescu: we haven't even started yet o.O

19:07:11 Duffer1: oh

19:07:24 ThickAsThieves: that's 146%/year!

19:07:27 *: moiety puts on specs that have no glass

19:07:27 ThickAsThieves: buy buy buy

19:07:46 kakobrekla: i thought this was gonna be a competition.

19:08:01 mircea_popescu: ;;calc ((0.23890514/50)+1)**365

19:08:02 gribble: 5.69651294191

19:08:07 mircea_popescu: 469% even

19:08:59 jurov: much extrapolate

19:09:00 jurov: wow

19:09:13 mircea_popescu: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/04/23/Why-my-daughter-doesn-t-recycle-an-economics-professor-s-letter-to-his-child-s-teacher

19:09:14 ozbot: 'Why my daughter doesn't recycle': an economics professor's letter to his child's teacher

19:09:23 mircea_popescu: jurov CLEARLY ITS A GOLF CLUB PATTERN

19:09:27 mike_c: yes.. and if cloudflare didn't prevent me from getting it through code. gotta love cloudflare.

19:09:52 mircea_popescu: dooglus do you have assbot ip whitelisted ?

19:09:58 mircea_popescu: mebbe kakobrekla adds it to !jd command

19:09:59 mike_c: similarly https://just-dice.com/wagered.txt is not accessible from scripts.

19:10:37 mike_c: which is annoying for people trying to automatically genrate statistics to report on such things :)

19:11:11 mircea_popescu: ^

19:11:22 Naphex: cloudflare sucks

19:11:26 Naphex: why are people still using it

19:11:40 kakobrekla: assbot is whitelisted for the general stats, i dont know if that coveres the new link

19:11:45 mircea_popescu: dooglus mike_c runs http://www.btcalpha.com/ prolly want to be on his good side :p

19:12:13 mike_c: he is, as he was very helpful when i was writing up the original post on JD. but easier access to stats would be nice.

19:13:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 850 @ 0.0009503 = 0.8078 BTC [+]

19:14:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3750 @ 0.00095057 = 3.5646 BTC [+] {2}

19:15:51 Naphex: hey mike_c can we add BTCXChange on btcalpha?:p

19:16:57 mike_c: well, it's more geared towards btc investments. not sure what I would put up.

19:17:03 Naphex: ah

19:17:27 mrstickball: Anyone know of any Bitcoin businesses in Ohio? My company may be purchasing a huge complex, and want to create a facility that can house crypto startups

19:17:47 mike_c: although i am sure you will get a mention/link when i cover s.mpif

19:17:50 kakobrekla: so you gonna do real time coverage of mpif mike_c ?

19:17:56 jurov: mrstickball: rentalstarter?

19:18:02 mrstickball: other than them

19:18:03 mike_c: kakobrekla: interesting idea.

19:18:16 mrstickball: RentalStarter, BuyAHash and Adeally are out of Ohio

19:18:18 mrstickball: looking for others

19:19:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0719029 = 0.1438 BTC [+]

19:19:22 mircea_popescu: i would say these are exciting times.

19:19:52 mrstickball: mircea_popescu: only if you didn't have me on ignore

19:19:55 Naphex: dunno about that

19:19:59 Naphex: i'm pretty bored

19:21:31 moiety: are there still forumites 3D printing things for btc?

19:23:13 jurov: moiety 3dtlac.com (not forumites, but gave me nifty btc keyfob)

19:23:57 moiety: oooo thanks very much jurov!

19:24:49 moiety: oh i like their rainbowness too

19:25:46 danielpbarron: I lost funds in that counterparty bug; nice to see that they are offering reembursements now.. gonna have to follow those steps i guess

19:27:13 danielpbarron: I told them about it at least a week ago; took them until now to officially admit it was a problem on their end?

19:27:59 mircea_popescu: how much did you lose, how did you find the problem etc ?

19:28:24 mircea_popescu: and they seem to be claiming it was a problem with bitcoinj which i find somewhat dubious

19:30:20 danielpbarron: about 0.3 BTC (not that much)

19:30:44 danielpbarron: I was one of the first users of their web wallet

19:30:52 mircea_popescu: aha

19:31:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6252 @ 0.00094837 = 5.9292 BTC [-]

19:31:47 danielpbarron: I found out after I had finished moving all my assets to their new web wallet, went to eat breakfast, come back to see my BTC has been moved

19:32:45 danielpbarron: I started the asset MEAT on the counterparty exchange, which until very recently was the only asset traded on there

19:33:23 jurov: !up joecool

19:33:23 assbot: Voicing joecool for 30 minutes.

19:33:33 danielpbarron: but I stopped using it ever since that bug happened, and also because everyone in here advised me to leave

19:40:39 thestringpuller: that's because counter party will likely become GLBSE

19:41:02 mircea_popescu: "My impression is that the feel-good guys are incompetent and stupid and need others to be nice to them because if other people were fair and just to them, they would suffer tremendously, and therefore defend other incompetent and stupid people because they can identify with the sloppy bastards, but not with those who actually do their job well and have that as their primary motive and their reason both for asking ques

19:41:02 mircea_popescu: tions and providing answers to problems from others who also want to do their job well and who find their enjoyment in their capacity to do just that."

19:41:07 mircea_popescu: gnarly phrase competition winner.

19:41:32 asciilifeform: norwegians ftw.

19:41:33 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: who said that?

19:41:40 mircea_popescu: noggin

19:41:47 mircea_popescu: i mean naggum

19:41:48 mircea_popescu: wait.

19:41:57 asciilifeform: ibsen.

19:41:58 mircea_popescu: there we go :D

19:42:19 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3243007932071437@naggum.no.html

19:42:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform's link

19:43:05 asciilifeform: i like digging out unexploded shells from great flamewors of teh past

19:43:10 asciilifeform: but i'm a weirdo

19:44:30 mircea_popescu: norse flamewhores

19:44:45 asciilifeform: pulled by housecat chariot.

19:44:56 thestringpuller: Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.

19:45:03 thestringpuller: that's a good quote

19:45:20 asciilifeform: speaking of, if anybody wants a 'compact' dead lang, - old norse

19:46:35 asciilifeform: http://norse.ulver.com/dct/zoega/

19:46:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00094541 = 16.5447 BTC [-] {3}

19:48:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 800 @ 0.14 = 112 BTC

19:49:10 mircea_popescu: !up belcher

19:49:10 assbot: Voicing belcher for 30 minutes.

19:50:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0713 = 0.2852 BTC [-]

19:52:33 asciilifeform: for anyone fond of naggumisms (whether to cheer or vivisect,) here's more -

19:52:34 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165

19:52:35 ozbot: Loper OS » The Wisdom of Erik Naggum

19:52:41 asciilifeform: (yeah posted here before, ages ago)

19:52:51 mircea_popescu: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--E7j7p4lU--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/jkgwlgpzwrgbycvi3u85.jpg

19:52:56 mircea_popescu: is woman holding geiger counter ?

19:53:14 mike_c: i think that's an ipod

19:53:41 asciilifeform: 'rio' mp3 player.

19:53:45 mircea_popescu: damned 1940s hipster time travelers

19:53:54 mircea_popescu: ;;google radio portabil ric

19:53:54 kakobrekla: portable ladies mirror

19:53:55 asciilifeform: http://www.minidisc.org/RioPlay.gif

19:53:55 gribble: Portable AM/FM Radios | eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Portable-Radios-/96954/i.html; RBR-4 — Standards for the Operation of Radio Stations in the ...: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf10650.html; RIC-7 — Basic Qualification Question Bank for Amateur Radio ...: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/en/sf09338.html

19:55:38 mircea_popescu: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--I7BrG8aK--/c_fit,fl_progressive,w_636/nsrieshcfpe5judn5k1r.jpg

19:55:43 mircea_popescu: Buy.More.Bonds.

19:55:50 BingoBoingo: Great Justice

19:55:51 BingoBoingo: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/24/world/asia/japan-whaling/index.html?sr=tw042514whalehunting330pstorylink

19:55:51 ozbot: Japanese whaling to continue despite court ruling - CNN.com

19:55:52 mircea_popescu: this'd be apretty cool advertising ploy for s.mpif

19:56:56 TomServo: no loafing!

19:57:11 asciilifeform: now for the pepsi:

19:57:12 asciilifeform: http://www.bestads.lt/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/SovietPropaganda6.jpg

19:58:26 mircea_popescu: the funniest one is the KEEP CLOTHI

19:58:32 mircea_popescu: what was it, on or off ?

19:58:41 asciilifeform: http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Original-Soviet-Poster-1963-Factory-Industrial-Very-Rare-Russian-Propaganda-/00/s/NzAwWDcwMA==/z/eyYAAOxyUrZSrLJv/$_58.JPG

20:00:22 asciilifeform: 'here great machines must sit forgot / because the idler wants to nod...'

20:00:45 mircea_popescu: http://www.vox.com/2014/4/25/5653390/chipotle-s-calorie-labels-are-a-lie

20:00:52 mircea_popescu: calories ? 10 to 900

20:06:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07182 = 0.1436 BTC [+]

20:07:01 benkay: someone's visiting the chipotles at the tail of the upgrade cycle

20:07:32 benkay: any reasonably high-traffic chipotle publishes numbers for individual items, eg guac, sour cream, cheese, various salsas, the different meats...

20:08:43 benkay: plus also lets ignore that the base measure is +/- 20% iirc, cuz what's research anyways when you're chasing provocative headlines.

20:09:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1999 @ 0.0002289 = 0.4576 BTC [+] {3}

20:09:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: did you ever encounter the tale of 'подвиг радиста' as schoolboy?

20:09:24 mircea_popescu: mnop

20:09:30 mrstickball: what's this about Chipotle publishing numbers for items?

20:09:33 mrstickball: how does that work, benkay

20:09:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.stalingrad-battle.ru/images/stories/ris42.jpg

20:09:39 mircea_popescu: benkay o hey, im a total noob when it comes to all these topics

20:09:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol "dreaming of kansas" ?

20:10:01 mrstickball: what's that supposed to be of, asciilifeform ?

20:10:19 asciilifeform: mrstickball: fellow who pinched a broken wire with his teeth, died in the correct position

20:10:36 asciilifeform: one of those soviet legends that 'everybody knew'

20:10:56 asciilifeform: if modern sysop monkeys had myths & legends, they'd pick up this one

20:11:20 Naphex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQm5BnhTBEQ now guys in the desert, they get bored hardcore ;o

20:11:20 ozbot: Saudi's Again Changing Wheels/Tyres while driving - YouTube

20:12:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00095136 = 21.691 BTC [+] {4}

20:12:23 mrstickball: so he pinched a wire with his teeth and got electrocuted?

20:12:41 asciilifeform: field telephone.

20:13:18 danielpbarron: he kept the current flowing, even in death

20:13:41 mrstickball: i see

20:13:44 asciilifeform: that's the legend anyway

20:14:10 asciilifeform: interestingly, подвиг doesn't translate to eng.

20:14:12 benkay: naphex why are both front and rear wheels stationary?

20:14:56 Naphex: differential probably

20:15:48 benkay: they'd still be spinning though, right? diff only has an effect when turning.

20:16:10 benkay: unless it's some crazy e-diff? and they've hacked it to say 'don't spin up wheel'?

20:16:24 nubbins`: mircea_popescu http://imgur.com/VG85ul7 < this is pretty close to the final draft

20:16:28 Naphex: nah i it's the same on my audi/quattro

20:16:41 mircea_popescu: nubbins` ahaha

20:16:49 Naphex: if wheel doesn't do contact it doesn't spin

20:16:56 mircea_popescu: the bearded dragon lighther

20:17:11 nubbins`: now imagine two of those straddling a shield with some leafwork on top/bottom

20:17:28 mircea_popescu: do i get a heart butt tattoo ?

20:17:28 Naphex: probably the diff or systems like ASR/ESP, not really sure.

20:17:30 nubbins`: men would go to war under such a banner!

20:17:54 nubbins`: i think that might be from the ol' heart-shaped-sticker-in-the-tanning-booth trick, but i'm not sure

20:18:01 Naphex: ASR only operates in conjunction with the Electronic Accelerator (E gas) and uses components of the Anti-lock Brake System (ABS). If one wheel suddenly begins to rotate faster than the others (slip), ASR intervenes in the engine management system and reduces power until the wheel stops spinning.

20:19:12 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/1vmEJij

20:19:12 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

20:19:38 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/pOhMaAm

20:19:38 ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer

20:21:42 mircea_popescu: muy hipster!

20:21:48 asciilifeform: lol, google's best transl. of 'подвиг' is... 'exploit.'

20:26:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00023001 = 0.115 BTC [-]

20:28:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.03252 = 0.2276 BTC [+]

20:28:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8108 @ 0.00095174 = 7.7167 BTC [+] {2}

20:34:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 850 @ 0.14 = 119 BTC

20:36:20 mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/a/OKLDf

20:36:21 ozbot: Balconies are for the Birds - Imgur

20:36:56 jurov: asciilifeform: isn't подвиг heroic deed?

20:37:24 nubbins`: :D

20:38:01 jurov: asciilifeform, also i think you assume there was more cultural exchange between ussr and its colonies than there actually was

20:38:01 fluffypony: here

20:38:04 fluffypony: for the hipsters

20:38:05 fluffypony: http://spagni.net/jdmpif/

20:38:26 jurov: iirc, it was actually discouraged because it would create conternation on both sides

20:38:46 jurov: *consternation

20:39:12 fluffypony: mike_c: I figured out how to scrape through CloudFlare, if you need me to make the jd mpif number available for you or explain how to walk past cloudflare

20:39:18 fluffypony: complete PITA

20:39:27 Naphex: http://oglaf.com/illusionist/

20:39:28 ozbot: the Illusionist

20:39:36 Naphex: there's a lesson there

20:39:49 mike_c: yeah.. i've seen PITA ways with scraping the cloudflare response, grabbing the JS shit and posting some form or something.

20:40:00 mike_c: all of which breaks when cloudflare tweaks their page

20:40:09 fluffypony: oh

20:40:12 mike_c: i didn't feel like participating in the arms race

20:40:13 fluffypony: no, this is unbreakable

20:40:22 mike_c: oh? do tell.

20:40:34 fluffypony: lemme pastebin

20:41:40 fluffypony: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=v0Zscx9Q

20:41:45 fluffypony: phantomjs script

20:41:59 fluffypony: just /usr/bin/phantomjs that script

20:42:17 fluffypony: it loads the page, lets the js/meta-redir/whatever they add execute for 10 seconds

20:42:22 fluffypony: and then dumps the page down

20:42:37 fluffypony: you end up with: <html><head></head><body><pre style="word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap;">50.24414705</pre></body></html>

20:42:52 fluffypony: so you still have to strip tags

20:43:08 fluffypony: but it'll work for all changes except a captcha, and you can run it every 10s

20:43:12 mike_c: ah. i thought about doing something like that with selenium. i haven't tried phantomjs.

20:43:16 mike_c: thanks

20:43:22 jurov: mike_c: guess i'll need to feed you marketmaker bot's trades, yo?

20:43:35 mike_c: i don't know if i'll go that route though. i hate web scraping.

20:43:40 fluffypony: selenium is nice, phantomjs is headless

20:43:51 kakobrekla: just get whitelisted

20:43:52 mike_c: jurov: yeah, that would cool. if you provide it I will ingest it

20:43:57 fluffypony: I hate having to have a UI on a server, lol

20:44:35 kakobrekla: jurov you will be mm on mpif ?

20:44:40 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07000335 = 0.28 BTC [-] {3}

20:44:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12916 @ 0.0009455 = 12.2121 BTC [-] {3}

20:44:52 mike_c: whitelist what, IP address? api keys would be nicer.

20:44:52 jurov: kako yes, TAT declined, so mp asked me

20:44:57 kakobrekla: cool

20:45:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20080 @ 0.00094464 = 18.9684 BTC [-] {3}

20:46:37 kakobrekla: mike_c yes ip

20:47:13 kakobrekla: or i can proxy it for you

20:47:38 mike_c: i like that idea

20:47:42 kakobrekla: dammit.

20:47:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00094403 = 6.1362 BTC [-]

20:47:44 kakobrekla: :D

20:47:45 mike_c: hah

20:48:18 mike_c: IP whitelists are just PITA for everyone. api keys are so much easier..

20:48:33 fluffypony: yeah except CloudFlare doesn't support anything like that

20:49:02 mircea_popescu: Naphex http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-strange-case-of-the-delusionist-and-later-stories/

20:49:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07170659 = 0.1434 BTC [+] {2}

20:50:41 bounce: oh, while I know next to nothing of trading, I have a possible mm candidate: moriarty, the one of spamming come to ##econometrics (in)fame

20:50:42 benkay: hey hanbot is 'hanbot' an acceptable way to refer to you now that you're not stalking the forums as 'MPOE-PR'?

20:51:15 mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust moriarty

20:51:16 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user moriarty: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=moriarty | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=moriarty | Rated since: never

20:51:26 mircea_popescu: you gotta be kidding me.

20:51:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5000001 BTC [+]

20:51:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00439988 = 0.22 BTC [-]

20:51:56 bounce: your due diligence is going to be a bit of a whale, yes

20:52:21 mike_c: fluffypony: surely you can have URL patterns that don't get cloudflared? if not, stats.just-dice.com would work.

20:52:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.0044 = 0.2772 BTC [+]

20:52:59 jurov: + CDN worth its name

20:53:10 fluffypony: mike_c: I don't know if you can exclude it in CF's PageRules, never bothered checking, but you can have a subdomain (CNAME / A record) and just turn CF protection off for it

20:53:28 fluffypony: which is what most do - www. and @ is protected, api. is not

20:53:40 Naphex: mircea_popescu: :D

20:53:50 fluffypony: (and api normally lives on separate hardware so the site stays up in the event of a DDoS on the API layer)

20:54:17 jurov: i suggest just using normal CDN

20:54:21 jurov: for it

20:54:42 Naphex: or just set up your own proxy/load balancer/cleaner

20:54:51 Naphex: cloudflare just setup varnish

20:55:51 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 440 @ 0.0044 = 1.936 BTC [+]

20:55:56 Naphex: i got like ~100GB/s DDoS protection from the datacenter, after they cut upstream

20:58:51 hanbot: benkay hanbot's fine, or hannah, mpoe-pr, whatever. just don't call me eddie-baby. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXhnzIO5N30

20:59:20 benkay: late for dinner it is, then.

21:00:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5 = 1 BTC [-]

21:02:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 227 @ 0.0044 = 0.9988 BTC [+] {2}

21:03:34 fluffypony: benkay: always late for everything except for every meal?

21:04:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 70 @ 0.0044 = 0.308 BTC [+]

21:05:06 benkay: ;;ticker

21:05:07 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 463.5, Best ask: 466.17, Bid-ask spread: 2.67000, Last trade: 466.17, 24 hour volume: 32390.83705859, 24 hour low: 438.05, 24 hour high: 505.0, 24 hour vwap: 465.483723915

21:05:11 benkay: dag.

21:09:20 kakobrekla: !jd

21:09:20 assbot: Just-Dice stat: 16476 BTC profit, 36.1k BTC invested, 1100.33 mio bets, 5.20 mio BTC wagered

21:09:23 kakobrekla: !jd mpif

21:09:24 assbot: Current MPIF account balance on Just-Dice: 50.24467048 BTC

21:09:29 mircea_popescu: ha!

21:09:31 mircea_popescu: splendeed

21:10:04 mircea_popescu: btw, you have one for panacea too ? :D

21:10:36 mircea_popescu: could be !mpif, spits out jd, panacea :D

21:10:40 kakobrekla: i dun think i can do that there because of the fee structure

21:11:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 10 @ 0.14 = 1.4 BTC

21:11:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 21 @ 0.00737639 = 0.1549 BTC [-] {2}

21:11:03 mircea_popescu: oh

21:11:17 mircea_popescu: but i mean... at any point you must somehow know the maximum im allowed to withdraw

21:11:32 mircea_popescu: like i go... pls to pay me back 100 btc. you say well... you ain't got 100 btc. how do you know i don't ?

21:12:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.07117736 = 0.7118 BTC [+] {2}

21:12:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 47 @ 0.0044 = 0.2068 BTC [+] {3}

21:12:13 kakobrekla: like we discussed, the accounting is done at the end of the month

21:12:29 kakobrekla: at that point withdrawals are done

21:12:34 mircea_popescu: ah yeah. a fixed figure for 1 month isnt too useful

21:12:38 mircea_popescu: aite!

21:12:52 kakobrekla: theres 2 things

21:13:05 kakobrekla: - you can see the trades so you can estimate something from that

21:13:10 mircea_popescu: maybe add the trades in chan ?

21:13:15 mircea_popescu: iirc they weren't very numerous

21:13:31 kakobrekla: i think its 5 this month

21:13:38 mircea_popescu: so add them to assbot feed.

21:16:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.0075 = 0.75 BTC [+]

21:17:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 40 @ 0.0075 = 0.3 BTC [+]

21:17:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 900 @ 0.14 = 126 BTC

21:22:16 benkay: what's the endgame for counterparty look like?

21:22:48 benkay: it's not a classic GLBSE in the sense that someone's going to shut it down. theoretically anyone can walk the 'exchange' at any time and discover the assets available for trade.

21:23:40 benkay: i guess the real question is 'is there an endgame for distributed exchanges'?

21:25:06 jurov: to fall into obscurity?

21:25:29 benkay: if exponential decay counts as endgame.

21:25:48 jurov: provided that the codebase is solid, which us pretty strong assumption

21:25:50 benkay: but they can't even fall into obscurity - noobs are still going to show up and want some return.

21:26:16 benkay: i guess i'm assuming someone does a 'distributed' 'exchange' adequately at some point in the future.

21:26:34 jurov: on the other end of scale, planetary bubble?

21:27:13 benkay: ugh

21:27:27 jurov: fortunately no contemporary distributed systems can support 10e9 shareholders

21:27:28 benkay: do not want

21:29:51 jurov: actually, if p2p trading system that can truly do that gets invented, i think it's inevitable

21:30:04 benkay: global bubble?

21:30:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00095013 = 7.031 BTC [+] {2}

21:30:30 jurov: yes

21:30:30 mircea_popescu: benkay the endgame for it is now

21:30:37 mircea_popescu: this is it. same as ripples.

21:31:44 Naphex: mircea_popescu, ever seen the thick of it / in the loop? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MSScBIopM8 Alistar Cambell loved it ;]

21:31:57 danielpbarron: if counterparty does take off, I have some choice asset names squatted

21:32:25 mircea_popescu: ^

21:32:31 jurov: mircea_popescu: how? if it doesn't have a website that can be shut down and is decently resistant to double spends?

21:32:43 mircea_popescu: just one of the many problems with "distributed" shits

21:32:44 jurov: (the latter remains to be seen)

21:33:13 mircea_popescu: jurov exactly the way myspace went. servers no purpose, has no utility. its entire lifetime is its endgame

21:33:42 benkay: mircea_popescu: those problems won't stop people from using it to sell seekyoorities

21:34:21 mircea_popescu: nothing's stopping people from using myspace to organise major concerts,

21:34:32 mircea_popescu: nothing stopped yahoo from recruiting their ceo on linkedin

21:34:33 mircea_popescu: etc.

21:34:45 mircea_popescu: soft constraints.

21:34:56 benkay: "major" "ceo" are orders of magnitude beyond the scope of btc scams.

21:35:07 kakobrekla: i deleted my linkedin a couple of days ago

21:35:25 mircea_popescu: benkay the purpose of a stock exchange is major and ceo.

21:35:26 benkay: kakobrekla: hipster!

21:35:38 kakobrekla: is that what they do now?

21:35:40 benkay: mircea_popescu: the purpose of a scam exchange is no accountability and access to pennies from paupers

21:36:02 mircea_popescu: yea ok.

21:36:18 mircea_popescu: like the purpose of myspace/linkedin etc is advertising and "user data"

21:36:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 30 @ 0.03281792 = 0.9845 BTC [+] {8}

21:37:15 benkay: is it?

21:37:19 fluffypony: I don't think the tech is fundamentally flawed, I think there's a lot of good stuff and good ideas underlying it all...I just think that anything like that is only really going to be useful in 20+ years when the current banking/regulation systems are significantly different from today

21:37:20 fluffypony: when accountability can be controlled programmatically instead of enforced by the po-po

21:37:31 benkay: i thought facebook/myspace were "VC Gems"

21:37:58 mike_c: <+fluffypony> when accountability can be controlled programmatically << that hurt my brain.

21:38:01 mircea_popescu: fluffypony the fundamental flaw is the naive expectation for tech to work by intself and in of itself.

21:38:11 mircea_popescu: this is the nonsense at work here, a sort of tech worship.

21:38:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 29 @ 0.03409809 = 0.9888 BTC [+] {8}

21:38:27 fluffypony: benkay: so what you're saying is counterparty is the next "Red Hot Penny Stocks"?

21:38:35 mike_c: no, that's haveloc

21:38:43 mike_c: counterparty is the next nothing.

21:39:13 mircea_popescu: that's a great blog name

21:39:18 mircea_popescu: TNN. The Next Nothing.

21:39:28 mircea_popescu: covering Republican finances since 2014

21:39:49 benkay: fluffypony: if i can't list a thing on mpex, i haven't made a good enough thing. there isn't another exchange out there that i'd sully my thing by listing on.

21:39:55 kanzure: does deleting your linkedin account actually work?

21:40:12 benkay: the taint coming from 2 sources:

21:40:13 mircea_popescu: kanzure yes. before you deleted it, you can delete it.

21:40:15 benkay: a) provenance of exchange.

21:40:21 mircea_popescu: after you deleted it, you can no longer delete it anymore.

21:40:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00094953 = 6.077 BTC [-]

21:40:35 kanzure: mircea_popescu: does it remove your address book etc? or does your data still contribute to their spam machine.

21:40:39 benkay: b) the 'security' 'peers' on the alternative exchange.

21:40:41 mircea_popescu: as i said :D

21:42:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5 = 1 BTC [-]

21:42:53 mircea_popescu: benkay our bitlordity's black, cold heart is warmed by your sentiments.

21:43:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 226 @ 0.0044 = 0.9944 BTC [+]

21:43:40 fluffypony: mike_c: I think interesting things are coming from "trustless" systems when trust becomes a product of data instead of a product of human decision making. For instance, imagine a designer works with a client who specs their project out. When the designer has completed it and delivered it, intelligent software is able to analyse his design and determine within a reasonable amount of probability that it matches the client's agreement both

21:43:40 fluffypony: functionally and from a design perspective. The *software* signs off on the transaction with no input needed from the client.

21:43:45 benkay: let me know the conversion rate of mp heart-degrees to btc, eh?

21:44:03 mircea_popescu: "when trust becomes a product of data instead of a product of human decision making." << srsly, this is nonsense fluffy

21:44:26 benkay: fluffypony: i've yet to figure out how to build a DAC i can't rob.

21:44:28 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: well it's already somewhat possible to have automated escrow with multisif

21:44:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.042 = 0.168 BTC [-] {2}

21:44:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]

21:44:35 fluffypony: *multisig

21:44:42 mircea_popescu: run me through it.

21:45:43 fluffypony: ok so a 2 of 3 multisig transaction to purchase an MP3 - funds are now out your wallet and requires two sigs to release to the supplier

21:46:10 mircea_popescu: so i buy some shit from you. i send it to an addy where you have a sig and i have a sig and we must both sign for you to get paid ?

21:46:13 fluffypony: an automated system is able to verify the validity of the download link and that the checksum on the download matches the expected checksum of that song

21:46:22 fluffypony: and so merchant + automated system = 2 sigs

21:46:32 mircea_popescu: i'd never use it.

21:46:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5 = 1 BTC [-]

21:46:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 226 @ 0.0044 = 0.9944 BTC [+]

21:46:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0712 = 0.2136 BTC [+]

21:46:37 benkay: gotta trust automated system to not get haxxed

21:46:41 benkay: oops

21:47:05 mircea_popescu: "expected checksum" wtf nonsense is that

21:47:29 fluffypony: I'm thumbsucking here, I'm not a distributed systems expert

21:47:39 fluffypony: s/checksum/hash

21:47:55 fluffypony: but look at a decentralised data store like Tahoe-LAFS, for instance

21:48:07 benkay: distributed systems as a term of art in the industry (as i'd expect you to know, fluffypony) does not refer to these blockchain applications

21:48:11 mircea_popescu: yeah, this is exactly the problem we're discussing. you don't understand the subject, but you do have convictions as to what works and how, and what the future will bring.

21:48:16 mircea_popescu: this is religion, nothing else.

21:48:36 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: absolutely, I have faith the Grand Designers will come up with Cool Shit (tm)

21:48:41 mircea_popescu: yes well.

21:48:56 jurov: having ability to check specs automatically will result in unemployed designer, will be easier just to machine evolve something that fits the spec

21:48:57 mircea_popescu: where are your submerged cities and flying cars ?

21:49:12 mircea_popescu: jurov has it. the entire thing is a restatement of the perpetuum mobile,

21:49:16 mircea_popescu: in flashy new terminology.

21:49:33 benkay: lol machine evolved designs

21:49:37 benkay: not a terribly bad idea

21:49:44 mircea_popescu: a sort more palatable to the modern religious mind, which as you stated, works on the " Grand Designers will come up with Cool Shit" faith

21:49:55 benkay: "here are 20 seeds! pick five."

21:50:01 benkay: machine thinks for an hour

21:50:09 benkay: "here are 40 'ideas'! pick 10"

21:50:21 benkay: machine thinks for another hour

21:50:48 mircea_popescu: "go to buy shoes. come back three hours later with a half cup made out of tin foil and something that looks like a mouse with no buttons"

21:50:48 benkay: "here are your five options! send btc to 1MACHINETHINKER and pick one package for downloading!"

21:51:08 benkay: point is only to outcompete the fiverr crowd

21:51:14 benkay: not the handmade leather shoe crowd

21:51:23 mircea_popescu: i was thinking, this is kind-of how plenty of women do shopping today anywya

21:51:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00094953 = 2.3263 BTC [-]

21:52:00 mircea_popescu: give her $100 to buy fishnet stockings, watch her come back with a purse and batteries.

21:52:19 benkay: hah

21:54:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, this constant tendency to abstract people out of life is a sickness by now.

21:54:43 mircea_popescu: law without people degenerates into the us sort of national-socialism.

21:55:00 mircea_popescu: sex without people is masturbation. finance without people is also known as crisis.

21:55:08 mircea_popescu: on it goes. you gotta have people in the loop or it ain't a thing.

21:55:59 mircea_popescu: we'd be better off allowing violence, from the schoolyard all the way to the workplace, than having this diffuse "everyone hates everyone" sort of poison floating about.

21:56:16 benkay: i'd be satisfied if we allowed sex in america

21:56:30 benkay: allowed it to be a part of life, you know?

21:56:59 benkay: i go out, i meet a chick as part of my gadding about the local scene. she's an acceptably well-practiced and hardworking programmer. i like her, we fuck. i can't hire her now basically.

21:57:04 benkay: wtf is this nonsense

21:57:28 mircea_popescu: why cant you hire her ?

21:58:14 benkay: bringing insane risk down onto the company.

21:58:27 mircea_popescu: eh, have topless day, what.

21:58:34 benkay: hostile work environment

21:58:50 benkay: "i don't feel comfortable being topless at work."

21:58:59 benkay: don charnley has some hack for this

21:59:01 mircea_popescu: so work somewhere else.

21:59:12 benkay: except then the Labor Department steps in.

21:59:21 mircea_popescu: ~somewhere else~

21:59:27 asciilifeform: benkay: atlas, suitcase, airplane.

21:59:39 benkay: "we see that you're making your employees uncomfortable. please pay us your entire profits for the past ten years."

21:59:49 benkay: asciilifeform: working on it.

21:59:52 benkay: mircea_popescu: working on it.

22:00:03 mircea_popescu: funny story : at one particular workplace we actually had topless day. buncha young people, the guys thought it was great.

22:00:11 mircea_popescu: six weeks later we no longer had topless day

22:00:27 mircea_popescu: the guys thought it puts too much power in the hands of womenz and it basiclaly sucks and is opressive.

22:00:31 asciilifeform: me in 5yr. sitting in gasenwagen with benkay and ThickAsThieves: 'so, let's chat about how we worked on it. while the motor revvs.'

22:00:50 benkay: shit we only have 5 years?

22:00:51 mircea_popescu: the settlement included guys having to always split the drinks tab among themselves.

22:01:03 *: asciilifeform optimist

22:01:52 benkay: how so too much power in the hands of the girls?

22:02:06 asciilifeform: benkay: 'radiation damage'

22:02:38 mircea_popescu: benkay well after the first coupla hours of awkward, the chicks loved it, cause apparently it's more comfortable.

22:02:51 mircea_popescu: the guys ended up spending all their time being awkward.

22:02:55 mircea_popescu: it was quite the show tbh

22:04:35 benkay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVHkteZJFlY

22:07:51 Naphex: http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/292/4/5/tucker_s_law_tea_towel_by_masterplanner-d6r36bp.png

22:09:53 benkay: now that's punishment!

22:20:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 19 @ 0.06998434 = 1.3297 BTC [-] {4}

22:24:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06987327 = 0.1397 BTC [-]

22:26:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.0735 = 0.294 BTC [-]

22:32:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10757 @ 0.00094538 = 10.1695 BTC [-] {2}

22:40:41 cazalla: that towel is clearly australian made

22:44:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0709999 = 0.142 BTC [+]

22:44:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00094645 = 3.2179 BTC [+]

22:47:37 Naphex: gn

22:49:36 fluffypony: also here

22:49:39 fluffypony: night Naphex

22:50:37 Naphex: gn fluff` :D

22:54:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7007 @ 0.00094645 = 6.6318 BTC [+]

23:16:05 danielpbarron: hm, I wish cookies were more persistant in chromium for iOS; keep having to re-enter my fraudsters credit pass

23:17:09 thestringpuller: thats a good thi g

23:17:14 thestringpuller: fucking save that shit

23:17:24 thestringpuller: to a file

23:17:27 thestringpuller: gpg encrypt

23:17:32 thestringpuller: back up a million times

23:17:36 danielpbarron: save what?

23:18:15 thestringpuller: the fraudsters key

23:18:24 thestringpuller: i j

23:18:33 thestringpuller: i have like 20000 credits

23:18:45 danielpbarron: oo -- big spender!

23:18:55 thestringpuller: uh sure.

23:19:28 thestringpuller: if i lose it. im fucked. re enterin makes you back that shit up if anything.

23:19:32 danielpbarron: maybe i configured something wrong; don't have this problem on my laptop

23:19:55 danielpbarron: it's "backed up" in my gmail "archive"

23:21:01 danielpbarron: it's probably apple's fault; I never should have bought an iPhone

23:21:17 danielpbarron: first and last apple product I will ever buy

23:22:07 benkay: best laptop chassis on the market, though

23:37:03 ThickAsThieves: so i'm watching Paul Romero's youtube and listening to Heroes shit. The guy's damn good.

23:38:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.0009472 = 5.3043 BTC [+] {2}

23:39:34 BCB: just for shits and giggles: http://imgur.com/r/Bitcoin/YiJNWOX

23:40:07 benkay: no

23:40:17 benkay: oh god

23:40:24 *: benkay cannot unsee

23:41:19 benkay: looked...really weirdly she-gendered? not looking again.

23:43:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.07049999 = 0.7755 BTC [-] {2}

23:49:24 moiety: jesus fuck

23:49:41 *: moiety goes to wash eyes with bleach brb