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Transcript for 25-04-2015, 1109 lines:

00:00:30 mircea_popescu: mike_c also, could "Timestamp" space be about 75% larger so it doesn't force double lines ?

00:00:39 mircea_popescu: !gettrust blacktower

00:00:39 assbot: blacktower is not registered in WoT.

00:00:44 mircea_popescu: you're not part of the community yet.

00:01:14 Pierre_Rochard: blacktower: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets

00:01:15 assbot: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5SsCt )

00:01:37 blacktower: having trouble with nickserv right now, perf thanks for the urls. ill get that going

00:14:51 cazalla: Pierre_Rochard, back on twitter or an imposter?

00:15:31 Pierre_Rochard: cazalla: back on twitter, couldn’t stay off!

00:16:42 mircea_popescu: lol, all teh hawt bitchez ?

00:18:02 Pierre_Rochard: primal scream therapy

00:28:14 mike_c: mircea_popescu: yes

00:41:38 ben_vulpes: ahhh

00:41:42 ben_vulpes: home sweet home sheets

00:41:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes also rode 'spam air' ?

00:42:15 ben_vulpes: how did that song go?

00:42:19 ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHPkLuVBQ1Y

00:42:20 assbot: The Presidents of the USA - Naked and Famous - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DlKoa6 )

00:42:48 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: naw, united and alaska

00:43:13 asciilifeform: lol alaska

00:44:06 ben_vulpes: what's wrong with alaska?

00:44:17 asciilifeform: nothing wrong, quite opposite,

00:44:19 asciilifeform: 'There are strange things done in the midnight sun / By the men who moil for gold; / The Arctic trails have their secret tales / That would make your blood run cold; ...'

00:44:41 *: asciilifeform did not know they had airline

00:45:00 ben_vulpes: oh you

00:47:10 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cmmuQ8wYV0 << filmization

00:47:12 assbot: The Cremation of Sam McGee. - 8 minute short 35mm film - - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DlKHkZ )

00:54:45 mircea_popescu: !rate ben_vulpes -1 said naked and famous, there's no naked and not famous. ponzi!

00:54:45 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a5a4d7115cba46a6

00:57:08 cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quujBgm2y6I rather amusing this is pretty much par at the qntra office

00:57:09 assbot: selo qntra - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FkQGg4 )

00:57:56 cazalla: (the drinking, not the men)

01:03:32 decimation: asciilifeform: you didn't take one of the luxurious american airlines?

01:03:57 asciilifeform: nope.

01:04:01 decimation: actually I've found us air carriers are the worst

01:04:10 asciilifeform: not, evidently, the worst.

01:04:25 decimation: in terms of cattle-class treatment

01:05:46 decimation: although american airlines tend to have among the more competent pilots

01:09:17 decimation: where else are you gonna find a guy with experience flying under fire in 'nam

01:25:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00031355 = 9.9709 BTC [+] {2}

01:54:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41750 @ 0.00031384 = 13.1028 BTC [+]

01:58:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55140 @ 0.00030972 = 17.078 BTC [-]

02:28:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55700 @ 0.00031486 = 17.5377 BTC [+] {2}

03:08:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.0003104 = 9.9949 BTC [-]

03:27:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00031041 = 7.3102 BTC [+]

03:42:41 danielpbarron: ;;later tell williamdunne is this you? http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/mrwdunne/

03:42:45 assbot: mrwdunne WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1JnlL55 )

03:42:45 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:47:02 danielpbarron: height=334315 vs height=353419 (note that the 2nd value is now greater. I have copied data dir from a full node)

03:47:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.0003104 = 3.7714 BTC [-]

03:49:15 danielpbarron: i copied the data dir from a 0.7.2 node and the foundation's pre- loaded it fine and is now adding blocks to it

03:58:18 decimation: danielpbarron: do you mean the latest build?

04:02:21 danielpbarron: i compiled it using the patches that ended up becoming

04:03:37 danielpbarron: and this is on a pogo

04:05:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66489 @ 0.00031199 = 20.7439 BTC [+] {3}

04:13:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22750 @ 0.0003104 = 7.0616 BTC [-]

04:24:35 scoopbot_revived: News! One good turn. URL: http://thewhet.net/2015/one-good-turn/

04:24:36 assbot: One good turn… | The Whet ... ( http://bit.ly/1HBNmNL )

04:40:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32410 @ 0.00031014 = 10.0516 BTC [-] {2}

04:48:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83450 @ 0.00030693 = 25.6133 BTC [-] {3}

04:59:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76644 @ 0.00030006 = 22.9978 BTC [-] {2}

05:07:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22095 @ 0.00029823 = 6.5894 BTC [-]

05:08:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32711 @ 0.00029724 = 9.723 BTC [-]

05:59:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00030826 = 5.3329 BTC [+]

06:15:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89350 @ 0.0002942 = 26.2868 BTC [-] {2}

06:24:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93100 @ 0.00030161 = 28.0799 BTC [+]

06:26:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22418 @ 0.00029528 = 6.6196 BTC [-] {2}

06:27:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37012 @ 0.00029171 = 10.7968 BTC [-]

06:48:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47800 @ 0.00029122 = 13.9203 BTC [-] {3}

07:33:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75100 @ 0.00030939 = 23.2352 BTC [+] {2}

07:58:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59300 @ 0.00031243 = 18.5271 BTC [+] {2}

08:15:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00031014 = 1.2095 BTC [-]

08:18:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70500 @ 0.00031269 = 22.0446 BTC [+]

09:08:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00031269 = 1.8918 BTC [+]

09:24:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81750 @ 0.00030112 = 24.6166 BTC [-] {2}

09:30:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36555 @ 0.00030071 = 10.9925 BTC [-]

09:44:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16095 @ 0.00030071 = 4.8399 BTC [-]

10:30:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22250 @ 0.00029983 = 6.6712 BTC [-]

12:20:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31642 @ 0.00030048 = 9.5078 BTC [+] {3}

12:45:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00031205 = 4.0879 BTC [+]

12:46:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94310 @ 0.00031398 = 29.6115 BTC [+] {3}

12:54:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.000315 = 3.528 BTC [+]

13:10:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8383 @ 0.000315 = 2.6406 BTC [+]

13:10:46 scoopbot_revived: News! MP's very brief foray into a poetry forum URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/mps-very-brief-foray-into-a-poetry-forum/

13:10:47 assbot: MP's very brief foray into a poetry forum on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1bDRP6T )

13:11:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8617 @ 0.00031503 = 2.7146 BTC [+]

13:23:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39450 @ 0.00030066 = 11.861 BTC [-] {2}

13:34:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00031528 = 7.4248 BTC [+] {2}

13:36:56 williamdunne: danielpbarron: Correct, it was

13:37:09 williamdunne: ;;later tell danielpbarron yes, it was

13:37:09 gribble: The operation succeeded.

13:38:13 danielpbarron: what happened there? lost your key?

13:40:28 williamdunne: danielpbarron: Still have the key, just changed my name format

13:40:56 williamdunne: Its on a computer that hasn't touched the internet in a while so not worth the effort of moving it

13:45:00 williamdunne: Trying to use some custom Map library that claims to be the Fastest, Greatest, Most flexible. It reduced by speed by 16 times.

13:46:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00029904 = 6.4892 BTC [-]

13:48:33 danielpbarron: what came of your XCP thing?

13:49:29 williamdunne: danielpbarron: Got some private investment on it, did a soft-launch, found what I did wrong, and now working on a complete overhaul which should be pretty awesome

13:49:32 williamdunne: So "in progress"

13:49:56 danielpbarron: you're actually still going to use it for something serious?

13:50:17 danielpbarron: my asset, MEAT, is up in value from this time last year :D

13:50:39 williamdunne: Oh, not XCP

13:50:41 williamdunne: Just the company

13:51:13 danielpbarron: oo, you going to get listed on MPEx?

13:51:38 williamdunne: Can't imagine that I have enough rep to do that yet, but its something I would be open to in the future

13:52:07 williamdunne: I would like to be used by MPEX for options settlement too - I believe we could offer the reliability that was missing when MP last offered them

13:54:30 Naphex: williamdunne - Map library for what?

13:55:15 williamdunne: Naphex: Matching engine, using one thats meant to write to disk and have an audit trail (as well as being stupidly high performance) but so far its treating me like shit

13:55:22 williamdunne: Chronicle-Map

13:56:14 *: asciilifeform looks up 'chronicle-map', reaches for barf bag marked 'java'

13:56:52 asciilifeform: !up yang

13:59:18 Naphex: williamdunne: seems like a lot of needless complexity, just use a map with random access(if you need it) and the new stream api's. should be enough performance increase. pre-alloc the memory for the map first if arraycopy is bringing the performance down.

13:59:19 williamdunne: asciilifeform: You'd probably be more disgusted if you knew all of the langs I enjoy using

14:00:13 Naphex: asciilifeform just has some spaz when he hears java. same thing when i hear about lisp

14:00:26 asciilifeform: williamdunne: when you eat a mighty fine dinner at your favourite restaurant, you still know that the chef often takes a shit. but it matters that he does it in the shitter and not in the kitchen

14:00:57 Naphex: luckaly the lisp chef will have his shit serverd and all wrapped in paranthesis :)

14:01:08 asciilifeform: as if it were a contest between languages

14:01:19 Naphex: luckily*

14:01:36 williamdunne: Oh shit, scoop died

14:01:38 williamdunne: One minute

14:02:16 williamdunne: There we are, revived

14:02:19 asciilifeform: the java stack per se - entirely ignoring the language (which is an instrument of torture) is a pernicious enough thing that i do not allow it on any metal under my control which matters

14:02:28 asciilifeform: in fact, specifically only on boxes kept for running malware.

14:02:34 asciilifeform: make of this, what you will.

14:03:36 Naphex: asciilifeform: how so?

14:03:46 Naphex: what makes it so pernicious?

14:03:51 asciilifeform: Naphex: there is no programming language called 'lisp', and there hasn't been since 1964 or so

14:04:03 asciilifeform: educated fella oughta know that.

14:04:38 williamdunne: Theres a couple of different versions, no?

14:05:19 williamdunne: Naphex: Its not lisp

14:05:57 Naphex: Clisp

14:07:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41219 @ 0.00029869 = 12.3117 BTC [-] {2}

14:07:47 Naphex: is that better ?:)

14:09:13 williamdunne: Brackets everywhere

14:09:25 williamdunne: Looks pretty good though

14:11:29 Naphex: anyway, what else is cooking

14:11:37 Naphex: 13:59 <+Naphex> williamdunne: seems like a lot of needless complexity, just use a map with random access(if you need it) and the new stream api's. should be enough performance increase. pre-alloc the memory for the map first if arraycopy is bringing the performance down.

14:11:55 Naphex: williamdunne: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/stream/package-summary.html

14:11:57 assbot: java.util.stream (Java Platform SE 8 ) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD54QT )

14:13:03 williamdunne: Naphex: I'll have a dig. I'm currently trying to find an efficient way to send messages between some order parsers and the matching engine itself

14:13:16 williamdunne: Currently on 166k orders per second

14:15:10 Naphex: williamdunne: do you do your own locking or use the locking from that Map library?

14:15:19 Naphex: cause you could easily beat that

14:15:44 williamdunne: I was just starting to experiment with it tbh, I literally just took out my treemap and put in the chronicle map

14:16:49 Naphex: williamdunne: what you should be doing is just using a regular map, and doing binary insert into it

14:17:33 williamdunne: I'll have a look at doing that

14:23:18 Naphex: williamdunne: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/Collections.html#binarySearch-java.util.List-T-java.util.Comparator- will make it pretty easy.

14:23:20 assbot: Collections (Java Platform SE 8 ) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD7pLN )

14:25:56 williamdunne: 223,000/second

14:26:01 williamdunne: Until GC kicks in

14:26:26 Naphex: don't trash the mem :P

14:26:58 williamdunne: Doesn't particularly help that I have only 100mb of free mem currently

14:29:07 williamdunne: Wait, surely TreeMap is the most ideal as it guarantees that the orders are actually.. in order?

14:29:38 Naphex: williamdunne: you do that with a map and binary insert with a Price-Time Priority comparator

14:30:56 williamdunne: Derp. Well now I have to work out that one. I only started looking at Java 3-4 days ago -.-

14:31:20 Naphex: as long as you don't have duplicated data ( and you shouldn't)

14:31:25 Naphex: the map will always be sorted

14:33:47 williamdunne: Yeah, although don't have to deal with price-time in this case

14:33:49 williamdunne: Just price

14:34:01 williamdunne: http://cointelegraph.com/news/114071/white-male-crypto-peddler-is-fed-up-with-white-male-crypto-peddlers Urmmmmmm

14:34:03 assbot: White Male Crypto-Peddler is Fed Up with White Male Crypto-Peddlers (Op-Ed) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HD9DdY )

14:34:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52000 @ 0.00031671 = 16.4689 BTC [+]

14:36:10 Naphex: williamdunne: well, you can't have dup data so you need a unique field. Price will have duplicated data :P

14:36:25 Naphex: atleast get a unique id or something and use that instead of time:p

14:37:18 williamdunne: Naphex: Would another solution not be to just append it to duplicate data? i.e if I have another order come in at $150 just add it to the quantity

14:37:26 williamdunne: And then the order handlers work out what belongs to who

14:49:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44711 @ 0.00029778 = 13.314 BTC [-]

14:55:01 Naphex: williamdunne: how will the order handlers do that?

14:55:08 Naphex: williamdunne: how do you define an order?

14:55:25 Naphex: you can group orders by price sure, but thats just for 'display'

14:55:55 williamdunne: Naphex: Assuming the order handlers are aware of the orders that should be in the book they can work out who placed what when and who is owed what

14:56:06 williamdunne: Leave the core to just push numbers around

14:56:40 Naphex: williamdunne: sounds reduntant

14:56:59 Naphex: an order should have a timestamp, side, quantity, and price if it has a limit

14:57:25 williamdunne: Naphex: Currently they just have side quantity and price

14:57:31 williamdunne: With the price being used as the key

15:04:35 Naphex: williamdunne: how will the order handler know who to serve and which order to execute?

15:05:43 williamdunne: The way I was planning it was that the core is just a simple limit/market job, and then the handlers do all of the things like checking balances before passing anything to the book itself

15:08:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20789 @ 0.00029429 = 6.118 BTC [-]

15:13:34 BingoBoingo: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/15/04/25/112224/tesla-to-announce-battery-based-energy-storage-for-homes << lol "three-feet high by 2.5-feet wide, and need to be installed at least a foot and a half off the ground"

15:13:36 assbot: Tesla To Announce Battery-Based Energy Storage For Homes - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gunjtg )

15:14:33 williamdunne: Seems like it could be good if you're already stuck with some solar panels

15:17:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26779 @ 0.00030133 = 8.0693 BTC [+] {2}

15:19:31 BingoBoingo: Lithium Ion is horribru for this purpose

15:19:45 BingoBoingo: NiFe FTW

15:24:00 danielpbarron: They can be controlled with a Web app and a smartphone app. << what could go wrong?

15:54:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48911 @ 0.00029449 = 14.4038 BTC [-] {2}

16:46:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58995 @ 0.00031033 = 18.3079 BTC [+] {2}

17:50:03 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: http://martinfowler.com/articles/lmax.html

17:50:05 assbot: The LMAX Architecture ... ( http://bit.ly/1GuQw7a )

17:50:23 mircea_popescu: how goes the cool aid ?

17:50:33 ben_vulpes: also, does http://www.cascadianhacker.com/index.xml work for the new scoopbot?

17:52:14 williamdunne: Yeah the LMAX architecture is awesome. Matt introduced me to Java through it

17:52:31 williamdunne: Gave me a new respect for computer science

17:52:37 williamdunne: I'll check it for you

17:52:48 williamdunne: Server not found

17:52:48 williamdunne: Firefox can't find the server at www.cascadianhacker.com.

17:53:03 ben_vulpes: looool wtf

17:53:17 ben_vulpes: oh yeah, without the dubbas

17:53:23 williamdunne: Your www doesn't point anywhere

17:53:34 ben_vulpes: this was a conscious decision at one point

17:53:37 ben_vulpes: hand curated internets

17:53:40 williamdunne: index.xml should work

17:53:42 ben_vulpes: it's like a cabinet

17:53:54 williamdunne: Yeah, I do similar on my sites but I 303 www to no wwww

17:54:00 williamdunne: *302

17:54:27 mircea_popescu: http://www.fraudsters.com/

17:54:28 assbot: fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PB45DG )

17:54:36 mircea_popescu: myeah. 302 ftw.

17:55:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00029823 = 6.3225 BTC [-]

17:56:23 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Your xml doesn't agree with scoop

17:56:27 williamdunne: I'll have a dig into why

17:57:04 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Okay

17:57:08 mircea_popescu: http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4271 << other people playing with their pogos.

17:57:09 assbot: Arch Linux ARM • View topic - Need help setting up audio ... ( http://bit.ly/1PB4w0J )

17:57:10 williamdunne: Needs to be rapped into a <channel>

17:57:17 williamdunne: *wrapped

17:57:48 williamdunne: <rss>

17:57:48 williamdunne: <channel>

17:57:48 williamdunne: <item>

17:59:52 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: So what are these Pogos? I had a look for them but I found some cloud backup company who didn't even advertise a pogo plug as far as I could see

18:00:03 mircea_popescu: exactly.

18:00:06 mircea_popescu: !s pogo

18:00:07 assbot: 388 results for 'pogo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo

18:00:18 mircea_popescu: see the earliest references

18:03:00 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: try as atom

18:03:02 ben_vulpes: http://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=cascadianhacker.com%2Findex.xml

18:03:03 assbot: Feed Validator Results: http://cascadianhacker.com/index.xml ... ( http://bit.ly/1PB5A4G )

18:04:14 williamdunne: Current code doesn't support Atom but I can modify it.

18:04:35 ben_vulpes: thanks :)

18:05:45 mircea_popescu: speaking of varnish, i actually got some numbers.

18:05:47 mircea_popescu: Year Uniques Visits Pages Hits Bandwidth

18:05:48 mircea_popescu: 2014 4,090,073 93,73,826 20,807,068 57,005,414 1.90 TB

18:05:48 mircea_popescu: 2015 2,190,297 53,48,430 10,599,152 13,781,404 599.82 GB

18:07:03 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Care to publish a test article?

18:07:31 ben_vulpes: i'm actually writing one now

18:12:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77900 @ 0.0002904 = 22.6222 BTC [-] {3}

18:15:02 mircea_popescu: blergh lost conn.

18:16:08 mircea_popescu: so re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110296 << the difference in numbers is due to the fact varnish ran on teh system since nov 2014. totally murdered hits and bw.

18:16:08 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:05:45; mircea_popescu: speaking of varnish, i actually got some numbers.

18:16:28 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110181 << haha

18:16:28 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 14:00:57; Naphex: luckaly the lisp chef will have his shit serverd and all wrapped in paranthesis :)

18:19:40 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/stop-all-the-clocks.ogg (no pingbacks i take it ? )

18:19:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PB8DKc )

18:19:41 gribble: The operation succeeded.

18:21:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15850 @ 0.00029811 = 4.725 BTC [+] {2}

18:22:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110187 << you know how the literary criticism goes, "don't tell, show". you've not really shown.

18:22:57 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 14:02:19; asciilifeform: the java stack per se - entirely ignoring the language (which is an instrument of torture) is a pernicious enough thing that i do not allow it on any metal under my control which matters

18:27:00 mircea_popescu: cazalla dude the http://qntra.net/archives/ page kicks ass.

18:27:01 assbot: Archives | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1GuX0Dg )

18:27:48 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Still working to get Atom support working, wasn't working with the small change

18:27:55 williamdunne: Having to refactor half the bloody code

18:28:28 mircea_popescu: "battery-based energy storage for residential and commercial customers. The batteries power up overnight when energy companies typically charge less for electricity, then are used during the day to power a home." << theres just no way this is cost effective.

18:28:47 mircea_popescu: the price differential won't likely even cover cost of insurance for that bomb, let alone its capital amortisation

18:29:26 mircea_popescu: not to even consider the fact that once this commodifies, the night discount goes away

18:35:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91987 @ 0.00029069 = 26.7397 BTC [-] {3}

18:37:26 mod6: So, before I go off in another direction, I guess I should ask if anyone knows how to get a gentoo stage3 running on an AWS instance. Previously, when testing v0.5.3.1-RELEASE on an AWS instance I used a pre-build/configured AMI that are available; which leads me to believe why I probably got some slightly different results from others who had used a roll-your-own gentoo with stage3.

18:38:05 mod6: Is it at all possibru to set up the instance with a Gentoo AMI, and then use it as a shim to somehow re-load with a clean stage3?

18:38:11 Naphex: mod6: i roll my own gentoo's. what's the problem with amazon?

18:38:39 Naphex: mod6: why not just kill most of the stuff running on the AMI and do a chroot and set that up

18:38:51 Naphex: mod6: unpack a stage3 and chroot it. set it up

18:39:25 mod6: I'm probably just dumb. How can I setup an instance with a clean stage3. All I see that are available are AMI's. And I'm worried that they've got things/tools pre-installed that I don't want to have in there. This instance will be a build/testing server for R.I. development.

18:39:55 Naphex: mod6: i never used AWS. But i doubt you could switch the kernel. but the chroot should solve your issues

18:39:57 mod6: ok, so setup a chroot environment, and run everything in the chroot?

18:40:01 mircea_popescu: basically he's proposing you replace teh chroot

18:40:30 Naphex: aye

18:40:40 mod6: Thanks for the tip.

18:40:43 Naphex: get the latest stage, unpack it and chroot it

18:40:46 mircea_popescu: mod6 anyway, oince you get this working make sure to describe what you did IN GREAT DETAIL

18:40:50 Naphex: make sure you kill the other running stuff before

18:41:01 mod6: mircea_popescu: ok, will do.

18:41:21 trinque: deedbot's ec2 gentoo

18:41:39 mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, but theior pre-rolled thing ?

18:42:00 mod6: this is good news, because I still want to attach the 350gb drive that I used for chain storage (i've got at least 6+ fully syncd) to the instance.

18:42:41 Naphex: mod6: 1) kill already started services, especially any syslog running. 2) mount sysfs, procfs, and /dev (binded) 3) chroot it :P

18:42:53 mircea_popescu: mod6 Naphex prolly has a point in that if you actually switch out the kernel on an aws... well they basically lost it. how's their hypervisors etc to work

18:43:51 Naphex: mod6: if you need the other syslogs like wtmp,btmp,lastlog you'll probably have to hardlink them in log. But that should be it

18:44:08 mod6: ok thanks, good to know.

18:44:10 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: musk's got a good handle on the battery safety thing. d'you recall the trumpeting over how his cell design nukes cascading failures when the Boeing batteries caught on fire midair?

18:44:30 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Okay, ScoopBot now supports Cascadian

18:44:39 ben_vulpes: thanks williamdunne!

18:44:40 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this is not how insurance works. insurance is an actuarial business

18:44:43 mircea_popescu: and he has no history.

18:44:49 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: v.welcome

18:44:58 trinque: http://www.blackswanent.com/gentoo/building-a-gentoo-ami

18:44:59 assbot: Building a Gentoo AMI | BlackSwan ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBd4EJ )

18:45:06 trinque: ^ should work

18:45:51 Naphex: trinque: does amazon load the kernel or just skips it?

18:45:57 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: he's also self-insuring his solar panels.

18:46:05 mircea_popescu: kinda has to yea

18:46:10 ben_vulpes: well, not just the panels but the roofes on which they're installed.

18:46:28 mircea_popescu: yup

18:46:37 ben_vulpes: and he's deeply bezzlefied, so he can probably convince tptb to let him self insure the bombs too!

18:46:41 ben_vulpes: rooves*

18:46:43 ben_vulpes: wat

18:46:45 ben_vulpes: roofs

18:46:46 mod6: thanks trinque

18:46:47 ben_vulpes: there we go.

18:46:49 trinque: Naphex: instructions there use your own kernel

18:46:55 mircea_popescu: the guy is taking massive levels of risk. one of teh few contemporary capitalists actually earning hteir keep.

18:47:10 ben_vulpes: indeed.

18:47:46 mircea_popescu: and diversified enough that the arabs can-t quite outright kill him. (tho they're trying). i tell you this is a fun thing toi watch, for me.

18:47:51 Naphex: trinque: i guess, as i see they use xen. imho letting xen guests define the kernel is a sure way of suffering when they manage to break out of the hypervisor :P

18:48:05 trinque: yeah ec2 is xen

18:48:14 mircea_popescu: Naphex i sometimes wonder how many boxes did amazon lose to date

18:48:22 mircea_popescu: and of thoise, how many they ever found out about.

18:48:33 trinque: mircea_popescu: it's a feature for their biggest customer

18:48:51 mircea_popescu: right.

18:49:07 Naphex: mircea_popescu: well if they do the breakout they'll surely rootkit the hypervisor kernel as well. so doubt they'll ever find out :P

18:49:19 Naphex: mircea_popescu: all there is left to do now is grep for secrets :P

18:49:37 mircea_popescu: lol

18:49:50 Naphex: why lose that capability. hide it and use it for fun

18:49:54 mircea_popescu: exactly.

18:50:18 mircea_popescu: williamdunne so in the light of a new day, does the bsdm social media thing actualy look worth doing to you ?

18:50:46 trinque: if nobody's done it in a couple years, I'd love to take on a hosting biz on other shores

18:50:49 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Its definitely an interesting job, and if its a paying job I have the time. So yes

18:51:12 mircea_popescu: how much would it be paying and what do you intend to actually do ?

18:52:05 williamdunne: I guess that depends on how we wanted to do it and the full scope - could be a big or small job. What would be the end goal? Listing on MPEX and running it continuously or building the site and palming it off to someone else

18:52:21 mircea_popescu: there's no one else.

18:52:41 williamdunne: I can do everything, if we want it to be pretty I can organize an actual designer too

18:52:48 mircea_popescu: sadly, for all the derpage re "bitcoin finance bla bla"

18:52:57 mircea_popescu: everything's not a something tho.

18:53:00 williamdunne: Okay, so MPEX route or just as a small private product

18:53:17 ben_vulpes: man, there *is* no bitcoin finance.

18:53:42 mircea_popescu: it could be listed, sure.

18:53:46 ben_vulpes: (at least this year...)

18:54:56 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I'll draw up a full spec and be sure that I can do it (in terms of time) and show that to you. Good starting point?

18:54:56 scoopbot_revived: News! Well welcomed, the warrior URL: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/04/25_well-welcomed-the-warrior.html

18:54:57 assbot: Well welcomed, the warrior ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBeJKs )

18:55:22 mircea_popescu: works.

18:55:41 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes shut up hater! there'sd even a bitcoin literature!

18:56:00 ben_vulpes: woo

18:56:05 ben_vulpes: lol

18:56:10 ben_vulpes: there's a bitcoin literature

18:56:13 ben_vulpes: there's a bitcoin stock

18:56:23 mircea_popescu: there's even a bitcoin girl.

18:56:28 williamdunne: there's bitcoin derivatives

18:56:42 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: any actual volume on 'em?

18:56:45 williamdunne: But.. but.. the blogger said there are no bitcoin girls

18:56:56 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Define "actual"

18:56:59 trinque: ben_vulpes: can confirm my routine looks like "while (true) { if (awake) { type(); } else { dream_of_typing(); }}"

18:57:24 mircea_popescu: Bitcoin girl, you're outa sight, you need a bitcoin boy, to treat you right.

18:57:24 mircea_popescu: He'll do a little dance, take you home tonight. Leave his wallet alone, but you can kiss his node...

18:57:38 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: like a) how would we know if volume is what they say it is (who the fuck is operating them anyways), and b) is it oom comparable to mpoe?

18:58:15 williamdunne: Well if you believe the numbers, the volume is pretty huge. I believe it probably is still pretty big but wouldn't trust a bitcent on them (unlike MPOE of course)

18:58:19 ben_vulpes: trinque: burning too hot, buddhi

18:58:29 trinque: rocket or sepukku

18:58:29 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: well, link?

18:58:47 ben_vulpes: trinque: best rockets are self-cooling

18:59:26 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: moreover, if you'd not trust a bitcent on them, they're not really 'actual'. finance runs on trust. no trust, not finance.

18:59:52 williamdunne: https://www.bitmex.com/app

18:59:53 assbot: BitMEX - Bitcoin Mercantile Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBfun2 )

18:59:53 williamdunne: https://orderbook.net/trade

18:59:54 assbot: OrderBook.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBfun4 )

18:59:54 williamdunne: https://www.okcoin.com/future/market.do?symbol=0

18:59:56 assbot: 行情图表 -OKCoin美元交易站 - 最专业的比特币美元交易平台 ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBfuDs )

19:00:08 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Whom I choose to trust, and who others choose to trust are very different things, in fairness

19:01:45 trinque: ben_vulpes: "that which does not kill you"

19:01:53 trinque: but yeah, I don't expect to live this way forever

19:02:00 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: i'd ask if you've put any money down on 'em, but i think i already know the answer to that

19:02:15 williamdunne: Aha yeah, not touching them.

19:02:23 williamdunne: I trust a few of the spot markets though

19:02:30 ben_vulpes: cumSize << lol

19:02:31 williamdunne: Although I intend to dominate them

19:02:38 williamdunne: But who doesn't

19:04:14 ben_vulpes: bitmex is offering their own margin

19:04:16 ben_vulpes: neat

19:04:18 ben_vulpes: glhf

19:04:30 ben_vulpes: lol and there's a guy going by goat in the trollbox

19:04:37 *: ben_vulpes nopes out

19:06:00 williamdunne: Yeah, it'd be nice to see some service offered by people worth trusting

19:07:50 trinque: the market needs more bitcoin businesses worth a shit

19:09:20 williamdunne: Pretty much. What do you think of ItBit trying to become a bank? To me it looks like they failed to create an exchange people want to use and now they're trying to diversify

19:10:34 mircea_popescu: to me it looks like "dreams may be anything you wish"

19:12:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31452 @ 0.00029823 = 9.3799 BTC [+] {2}

19:15:16 williamdunne: They may have managed some VC fool to give them $60m so they can get their license

19:15:45 mircea_popescu: i think only outsiders actually have to pay for that.

19:16:38 scoopbot_revived: News! If I- URL: http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/25/if-i/

19:16:39 assbot: If I– | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBiwaX )

19:17:23 williamdunne: Thats supposedly the cost of running a bank pre-launch of your product

19:18:27 menahem: hey mircea, do you have an article in relation to your quotation "dreams may be anything you wish" ?

19:18:48 mircea_popescu: uh. well... there's that video... what was it

19:19:07 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSjLiQxEZlM

19:19:08 assbot: You can do Anything! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBiVtS )

19:19:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.0003044 = 7.9753 BTC [+] {2}

19:23:08 ben_vulpes: !rate jurov 3 several collaborations, never a hitch.

19:23:09 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/77bf0d276b798ec1

19:23:31 Pierre_Rochard: williamdunne: new york trust company not quite a bank, much lower cost

19:23:38 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.jurov.3:57329d33c4fc57e0aac47da8b31e04d3f729abd0f5af3606aad543713a3f1e76

19:23:38 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for jurov from 4 to 3 with note: several collaborations, never a hitch.

19:23:56 ben_vulpes: !r xmj 1 wordprexen, django, sysadminnery.

19:24:11 ben_vulpes: !rate xmj 1 wordprexen, django, sysadminnery.

19:24:11 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/023a2a2da1d996f1

19:24:25 Pierre_Rochard: it may allow them to avoid all the money transmitter nonsense

19:24:33 menahem: lol, glad I asked. always a deeper layer to what you say. ;)

19:25:00 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.xmj.1:933aeac159af0249f00d4834cb27124d38e3e15066da9934a8c85507fe45ba23

19:25:00 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for xmj from 3 to 1 with note: wordprexen, django, sysadminnery.

19:25:13 ben_vulpes: !rate mircea_popescu 4 throws a hell of a party.

19:25:13 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3c4c49199f42a4a2

19:25:56 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mircea_popescu.4:4430379a4deb2448d272a058f445c0cc787a4d884020bbd276a4591a3c93c58b

19:25:56 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 3 to 4 with note: throws a hell of a party.

19:25:58 ben_vulpes:

19:26:10 ben_vulpes: !rate ssataneth 2 trade.

19:26:10 assbot: ssataneth is not registered in WoT.

19:26:12 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: "i tried and therefore no-one can criticize me" 10/10.

19:26:15 williamdunne: I lold

19:26:24 williamdunne: Pierre_Rochard: Ah I take it back then

19:26:28 ben_vulpes: !rate ssateneth 2 trade.

19:26:28 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8d3203273edc9c3e

19:26:55 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.ssateneth.2:b996c934d87c4faa5b123390f7514bc646e6960ff27eabce91f7b18292956cc9

19:26:55 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for ssateneth from 3 to 2 with note: trade.

19:26:57 ben_vulpes:

19:27:17 ben_vulpes: !rate kakobrekla 4 steward of la serenissima.

19:27:17 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ee2b6470a77a80a8

19:29:00 mircea_popescu: in any case the actual costs to running a bank aren't in getting the certificate. you gotta have the damned bank.

19:29:12 mircea_popescu: not as easy as it seems.

19:29:52 menahem: what would be some of the major challenges ?

19:29:59 williamdunne: menahem: Compliance x10

19:30:23 mircea_popescu: not even. you gotta have people who can actually bank.

19:30:35 mircea_popescu: you know, think in the more accessible terms of a hospital.

19:30:41 mircea_popescu: yes, you need to get some paperwork and permits

19:30:50 mircea_popescu: and yes you need to get lawyers that'll protect you from being sued.

19:31:01 mircea_popescu: well... it's not a hospital yet, is it ? at some point you actually need some people who can cure people.

19:31:47 mircea_popescu: look at the sad sad story of medici bank.

19:32:06 mircea_popescu: created in the 1400s, ran out of bankers in the 2000s, and swiftly out of history.

19:32:23 mircea_popescu: INVENTED the fucking double entry ledger, these people.

19:34:37 scoopbot_revived: News! The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume VI URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-vi/

19:34:38 assbot: The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume VI on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z0Lvk0 )

19:35:42 williamdunne: How many volumes are there going to be?

19:36:15 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Surely a lot of the costs can be massively reduced now? Wasn't exactly much automation in the 15th century

19:36:37 mircea_popescu: those aren't the costs.

19:36:47 mircea_popescu: the more you cut the clerical costs, the more the actual job of banking gets expensive.

19:36:57 mircea_popescu: and i'd expect about 40 or so.

19:37:58 mircea_popescu: turns out i kinda like ben_vulpes blog.

19:38:22 williamdunne: Have you already scraped the info or..?

19:38:58 mircea_popescu: nah, doing it as i go along

19:39:08 williamdunne: Oh dear lord

19:39:13 williamdunne: They haven't patched it yet?

19:39:13 mircea_popescu: exactly.

19:39:15 williamdunne: What the fuck

19:39:24 mircea_popescu: was funny too, the derps were like "HE DOESN:T HAS TEH SKILLSss!11!1"

19:39:29 mircea_popescu: yeah totally.

19:40:09 williamdunne: What skills? You literally told them how to do it..

19:40:17 mircea_popescu: dude, don't ask me.

19:40:30 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-bitlove-llc-spin-on-their-recent-implosion-as-presented-to-their-captive-audience/ << there, actuallky discussed

19:40:31 assbot: The Bitlove LLC spin on their recent implosion, as presented to their captive audience. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBmy2M )

19:43:41 mircea_popescu: williamdunne but they have been dutifully banning their users (for saying anything but "this guy is horribru" and "what a violation!"). from what i hear the bancount's climbing well past 100 by now

19:43:48 mircea_popescu: surely this is going to do something.

19:44:32 williamdunne: Sent them an offer to fix it for 10 BTC

19:44:34 williamdunne: Lol

19:45:05 mircea_popescu: dude, that entire thing was made for 10 btc

19:45:41 williamdunne: I especially like the fact that their "solution" seems to be 422'ing anyone who is referred by fraudsters

19:46:28 mircea_popescu: yeah. works too, for the sort of muppets who pass along referrers

19:46:30 mircea_popescu: and never reload pages.

19:46:38 mircea_popescu: "is the hallmark of fiat psyops hell-bent on undermining their control of the monetary base. " << ben_vulpes come again ?

19:46:45 williamdunne: Max Keiser has started a new 'Crypto Fund' and somehow it has managed to $-2000 overnight

19:46:58 williamdunne: *raise $-2000 overnight

19:47:10 mircea_popescu: that muppet... i have no idea how he and his gf/announcer aren't in jail over the auroracoin scam

19:47:29 mircea_popescu: but i guess preet bharara is busy making his cell arrangements

19:48:15 williamdunne: Max Coin/Start Coin/Quark

19:48:34 mircea_popescu: myeah

19:48:40 williamdunne: I feel bad, because the person he's doing the 'fund' with is actually a decent guy. Been dragged in with his shit

19:48:49 mircea_popescu: tell the guy he is an imbecile.

19:48:50 williamdunne: 1/3 of the fund will be trading altcoins.. lol

19:48:56 mircea_popescu: i don't feel bad for this sort of "decent guy".

19:49:00 mircea_popescu: he is the scum of the earth.

19:49:08 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ty, i'll have words with the copyeditor

19:49:11 mircea_popescu: worse, much much worse than any deliberate scammer. the naive is the absolute shit of the world.

19:49:24 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.kakobrekla.4:29b873003beb1f212de3c8e9e6efbec2208c75c4ec5c5a5b558f4ad1d931a7b9

19:49:24 assbot: Invalid verfication string.

19:49:26 ben_vulpes:

19:49:32 williamdunne: Thats a pretty broad category

19:49:37 ben_vulpes: !rate kakobrekla 4 steward of la srenissima.

19:49:37 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/743140e1c2a3b4c9

19:49:44 mircea_popescu: i don't blame the fire for the fire.

19:49:47 mircea_popescu: i blame the dry wood.

19:49:56 mircea_popescu: dry wood is to be cut off and taken away. far, far away. in chains.

19:50:07 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.kakobrekla.4:8d675ddc8f1c215a54e7a752b2e5bcb8ef714d53252b17926eaa7ca6c9de5a3b

19:50:07 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 4 with note: steward of la srenissima.

19:50:10 williamdunne: No room for intent?

19:50:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31544 @ 0.00030493 = 9.6187 BTC [+]

19:50:20 mircea_popescu: yes, plenty of room.

19:50:27 mircea_popescu: people who do wrong unintentionally are to be punished.

19:50:37 williamdunne: And those who do wrong intentionally?

19:50:42 ben_vulpes: ! rate mike_c 3 kindred derper in fiat.

19:50:46 mircea_popescu: people who do it intentionally, after we're done with the clueless set.

19:50:50 ben_vulpes: !rate mike_c 3 kindred derper in fiat.

19:50:50 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/82c8676d5bdf3a83

19:51:13 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mike_c.3:a39f5723975f6239012276bce139acd24cdf5da37e75deba10545b1003c7face

19:51:14 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mike_c from 2 to 3 with note: kindred derper in fiat.

19:51:24 ben_vulpes: ! rate princessnell 1 coulda been a contender.

19:51:33 ben_vulpes: !rate princessnell 1 coulda been a contender.

19:51:33 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0bc12b32efc013f6

19:51:42 williamdunne: I've already been blocked from Max Keisers twitter, seems like I should be proud of it - I don't even remember sending a tweet to him

19:51:43 mircea_popescu: yea whatever happened to her

19:51:59 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.princessnell.1:ac067a68fa38b40733dfc1ef7abc81ce3ea936d5b0f6c18156e16f2a28119ee6

19:51:59 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for princessnell from 2 to 1 with note: coulda been a contender.

19:52:09 ben_vulpes: got sucked back into academia.

19:52:20 ben_vulpes: derps with derps alike.

19:52:32 ben_vulpes: !rate phf 1 lisper.

19:52:32 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1802996aea227510

19:52:51 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.phf.1:fb393218870b21a4a538f2373afcb710a6c76d81e2dd4c73fe2df98ada1a357c

19:52:51 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 with note: lisper.

19:53:13 ben_vulpes: !rate asciilifeform 4 inventor, dreamer, builder, axe-man.

19:53:13 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/67783a843cee8f7f

19:53:38 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.asciilifeform.4:e03acfdc57029b6f7dabccc6af536737c2811b66f4a68e15ef2ffc589b94d72c

19:53:38 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for asciilifeform from 2 to 4 with note: inventor, dreamer, builder, axe-man.

19:53:52 ben_vulpes: !rate moiety 1 rip

19:53:52 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/261ebc091761b7c0

19:54:13 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.moiety.1:6a9e687df673d07fadd743f854a42c8afc189598fb7912745abd2636d041a98a

19:54:13 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for moiety from 2 to 1 with note: rip

19:54:21 ben_vulpes: !unrate brendafdez

19:54:22 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/95d23bcdf7fcfbbe

19:54:43 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.brendafdez:9f0adfbf033abc63d678e93287e52fee75e6f2b82cfb1e07ff2c5acb223c73b9

19:54:43 assbot: Successfully unrated brendafdez

19:55:04 ben_vulpes: ah christ will it never end

19:55:26 ben_vulpes: !rate pinkposixpxe 1 lent a hand with some bash.

19:55:26 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6f9ee5aba38a569a

19:55:46 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.pinkposixpxe.1:f400fb6bdf67f7973cae3630895bba2bc99a7f3ccbf8b150aa1564505eb9d1b7

19:55:46 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for pinkposixpxe from 1 to 1 with note: lent a hand with some bash.

19:55:57 ben_vulpes: !unrate xanthyos

19:55:57 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3cc0739ad93367e1

19:55:58 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "and the Bitcoin ramp to 1200 proved to be an artifact of a fractional-reserve exchange, for just two examples." << this doesn't make sense, because the exchange was fractional in btc not in fiat.

19:56:20 *: ben_vulpes is not operating in threaded mode today

19:56:26 mircea_popescu: really, the impact of mtgox on anything to do with bitcoin, its "price" y compris, is broadly overstated.

19:56:46 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.xanthyos:063771f705eb0f8c74a35a3ed06912c88db82549b6ad1aeedac4b1d224b64d6a

19:56:46 assbot: Successfully unrated xanthyos

19:56:57 ben_vulpes: !unrate hodlr

19:56:57 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/502a6bf941da9ec1

19:56:59 williamdunne: Much like the overstatement of China's impact in the present day

19:57:18 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.hodlr:45fe0b89d2b81cd1e9ef17977e7b9c27a1297f572d4ed8ed5500f9384cd11163

19:57:19 assbot: Successfully unrated hodlr

19:57:25 ben_vulpes: !unrate rainman28

19:57:25 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/bf6c898c08c2952a

19:57:28 mircea_popescu: depends present day of what. but yes, financially, it's more of a promise-to-impact, since the shanghai thing

19:57:47 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.rainman28:fb26fe46f1000f0fb04de29ceeee404f2769ffc32b41f35d3995f0431924305e

19:57:47 assbot: Successfully unrated rainman28

19:58:02 ben_vulpes: !rate mthreat 2 shared a cab with this pleasant chap one time.

19:58:02 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5dee4da0ccb1ec1f

19:58:23 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mthreat.2:e66c706e882d87e12793c048fd02435a335f4ea29f5ac893806eafe42c80be93

19:58:23 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mthreat from 1 to 2 with note: shared a cab with this pleasant chap one time.

19:58:31 ben_vulpes: !unrate mats_cd03

19:58:31 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/84eb3e72be7ee2a3

19:58:56 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.mats_cd03:694d8202dde00120747c28cdc08fa3217fdf0c55bd331a07dc9ad8cae66011a6

19:58:56 assbot: Successfully unrated mats_cd03

19:59:12 ben_vulpes: !rate mats 1 skeptic, sapper.

19:59:12 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e66ee0294b7f9e10

19:59:32 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mats.1:5a41ff385c95c2cb42f4fb651b5945cbd0f218cf383a79b0d379bf915ff8d763

19:59:32 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mats from 1 to 1 with note: skeptic, sapper.

20:00:06 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is definitely a seminal piece.

20:00:18 mircea_popescu: "all of the democrati tools" < +c

20:00:24 ben_vulpes: !rate hanbot 2 saw this legendary valkyrie in battle mode one time.

20:00:24 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a1622e69bf372c63

20:00:51 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.hanbot.2:13c1fddf38e98958768f1e956448e6bc27e85e58e3320ef7efcf8c584d43ce68

20:00:51 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for hanbot from 1 to 2 with note: saw this legendary valkyrie in battle mode one time.

20:01:01 ben_vulpes: !unrate josh_rossi

20:01:01 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d3f847bc03bfece9

20:01:20 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.unrate.josh_rossi:ba64844f870c914d60ce6482f2a844d69719676ccbd97077a0d3bd9270733b07

20:01:20 assbot: Successfully unrated josh_rossi

20:01:30 ben_vulpes: !rate mod6 foundation co-chair.

20:01:30 assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.

20:01:38 ben_vulpes: !rate mod6 4 foundation co-chair.

20:01:38 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/b70049eea191906d

20:02:00 williamdunne: Does the rating have to be an integer?

20:02:09 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: try it and see!

20:02:13 williamdunne: !rate assbot 1.1 test

20:02:13 assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.

20:02:13 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.mod6.4:137b83f998c89a7d7dcb1996a7d74390b3bff1f046f68382de16ea804db07274

20:02:13 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mod6 from 2 to 4 with note: foundation co-chair.

20:02:15 ben_vulpes:

20:02:44 ben_vulpes: !rate davout 3 you wouldn't believe how this man makes the girlies eyes twinkle.

20:02:45 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e3540c4cdc3c1df2

20:03:16 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.davout.3:9ae5a5d63d4ee8a9954c91adf9e9f6e98def6da82fcacb235151890e35d96d98

20:03:16 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for davout from 2 to 3 with note: you wouldn't believe how this man makes the girlies eyes twinkle.

20:03:30 ben_vulpes: !rate davout -4 unrepentant rubbyist

20:03:30 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6f1dfef95e13969d

20:03:42 williamdunne: lol

20:03:45 ben_vulpes: !rate assbot 10

20:03:45 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1245f32714517440

20:04:06 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.assbot.10:20c9ead67ad3968ad9f9617e9359eb428b89d50bdeb9a5a0a6a3aeb848f0d9eb

20:04:06 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 10 for assbot.

20:04:22 ben_vulpes: !rate nanotube 1 runs the #bitcoin-otc web of trust.

20:04:22 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/2a303ab9bb15e443

20:04:40 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.nanotube.1:6b3acdaf3c87b906a7e2fbc5257d477ab2d19c4aed01c2de68966135d2ed16a4

20:04:40 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for nanotube with note: runs the #bitcoin-otc web of trust.

20:04:53 ben_vulpes: !rate chetty 2 engineer of the world that was.

20:04:53 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/687347a7113625ca

20:05:14 ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.chetty.2:d39733695e5e5231057a9eda40b1ee6bbdc8e536db46d48ada534ba1c2020678

20:05:14 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for chetty with note: engineer of the world that was.

20:05:18 mircea_popescu: "endless cycles of printing that necessitates will do all that is necessary to turn a single Bitcoin into a nuclear sub." << is necessarily going to ?

20:05:36 ben_vulpes: done!

20:05:39 ben_vulpes: aha yeah oops

20:06:18 mircea_popescu: now you gotta go back through the turd and pick up my lines :D

20:06:23 ben_vulpes: nooooo

20:06:34 ben_vulpes: like some derpy nodejs program that got locked on a single queue

20:08:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-04-2015#1108289 << thread you were looking for

20:08:00 assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 16:01:16; williamdunne: But in return you have more potential users of your XYZ business, and more potential to operate profitable businesses that are less-than-possible in the fiat world

20:08:14 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> turns out i kinda like ben_vulpes blog. << blush

20:08:34 mircea_popescu: anyway, http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/04/24_bitcoin-needs-no-changes-to-destroy-your-world.html definitely part of vulgate nao.

20:08:36 assbot: Bitcoin needs no changes to destroy your world ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBrjJU )

20:10:16 ben_vulpes: i can't believe that i felt compelled to write it all out.

20:10:26 ben_vulpes: is all of the above not...elementary?

20:12:09 mircea_popescu: kinda what the vulgate is.

20:15:14 ben_vulpes: are you making a reference to the bible translation?

20:15:46 mircea_popescu: well yeah

20:16:15 mircea_popescu: tho ended up THE bible, canonically, in the 1500s

20:17:02 ben_vulpes: our vulgate then being pieces distilling conversations in the forum?

20:17:44 mircea_popescu: either that or the banal that's going to end up the canon.

20:17:56 ben_vulpes: heh

20:18:06 ben_vulpes: quelle vulgar

20:19:01 mircea_popescu: that name is pretty apt, in rip-rospect.

20:19:15 ben_vulpes: as in bible of the commoner?

20:20:29 mircea_popescu: "scoopbot_REVIVED"

20:22:10 mircea_popescu: ;;ud wdw

20:22:11 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=WDW | WDW. an acronym for the expression: "Whatever, dude. Whatever." Used to express contempt. Nate: Where were you for so long? Chris: I was banging your ...

20:22:56 mircea_popescu: apparently it's actually worthless dumb whore.

20:23:30 williamdunne: Okay, Scoop will now fix himself in the event of my connection dropping

20:23:38 ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/04/24_bitcoin-needs-no-changes-to-destroy-your-world.html << williamdunne this one is for you, baby

20:23:39 assbot: Bitcoin needs no changes to destroy your world ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBtEo2 )

20:24:45 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I'll give it a read

20:26:13 williamdunne: "about the stupidity of using the blockchain for anything that does not need to be:

20:26:13 williamdunne: immutable, fungible, non-discriminatory, and trustless"

20:26:26 williamdunne: -- Yeah I agree with you re: why bitcoin matters

20:26:37 williamdunne: (from my own post)

20:27:40 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's a wider point here btw : the internet has been slowly evolving towards immutability. this trend is visible high and low - curtis yarvin's attempt to "remake bitcoin in his own yard" did not miss this point, the general response of the fetlife cattle to the meatlist is a very sound "internet is immutable", the wind is there.

20:28:00 mircea_popescu: i have nfi why this is the case, seeing how on the plain consideration immutability is a very retarded concept,

20:28:06 mircea_popescu: but nevertheless, here we are.

20:28:48 ben_vulpes: williamdunne: your post?

20:29:31 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I too have the capability to write, even if I'm not as eloquent as most here

20:29:50 mircea_popescu: so link ?

20:30:31 williamdunne: http://thethug.life

20:30:32 assbot: Lego Under the Giant's Feet ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBuzVF )

20:31:17 mircea_popescu: ahahaha

20:31:25 mircea_popescu: well.. at least it's not "bitcointhug.yo"

20:31:45 mircea_popescu: williamdunne so add it to the scoop

20:31:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64249 @ 0.00030493 = 19.5914 BTC [+]

20:32:05 williamdunne: Sure thing, well someone had to make use of the gTLDs

20:32:40 mircea_popescu: "immutable, fungible, non-discriminatory, and trustless" hm. this seems actually correct.

20:33:13 mircea_popescu: take discrimination and put it in the wot <-> currency has no business discriminating.

20:33:33 mircea_popescu: puts the entire serenissima vs nato dispute in much better contrast, from this angle. they want to infect everything with everything,

20:33:39 mircea_popescu: make it the job of banks to police, etc.

20:33:46 williamdunne: I think I covered the WoT a bit (well, GPG contracts) in 'Your reputation is a commodity'

20:33:57 mircea_popescu: socialism, after all, is not optional anymore than water level is optional.

20:34:34 mircea_popescu: (what i mean is, you don't get the option ot have some here and none there. if you have some, it's everywhere)

20:34:44 ben_vulpes: http://thethug.life/product-before-capital/ << an add'l note on the exchanges is that the product here is of necessity undifferentiable except with how liquid your shit is

20:34:45 assbot: Venture Backing isn't enough if no-one wants your product — Lego Under the Giant's Feet ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBv81B )

20:35:14 mircea_popescu: not even.

20:35:35 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I'd disagree, while liquidity is important when it comes to profiting through trading there are features that matter, i.e leverage

20:36:07 mircea_popescu: the trustworthyness of the operator is first. liquidity second. features maybe third tho ideally the thing should be just open and anyone can build their own features.

20:36:51 ben_vulpes: heh without trust there *is* no product.

20:37:18 mircea_popescu: right,

20:37:37 ben_vulpes: http://thethug.life/reputation-commodity-exchange/#fn:1 << bro do you even airgap?

20:37:37 assbot: Your reputation is a commodity — Lego Under the Giant's Feet ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBvAwW )

20:37:39 mircea_popescu: "CEO MIMEX, opinions displayed do not reflect those of MIMEX" << what sense does this make ? if the opinions of the ceo are not mandatory for mimex, then what does "ceo" mean ?

20:37:49 mircea_popescu: and whence is mimex to get OTHER opinions from ? you got a coo ?

20:38:06 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Yeah

20:38:19 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: More specifically it means staying in business is more important than my morals

20:38:20 williamdunne: For example

20:38:29 williamdunne: I personally I have a disdain for compliance of any sort

20:38:34 mircea_popescu: i know that if i'm the guy where the buck stops (usually rendered as "ceo" in anglocircles) then god damned are my opinionsmandatory for the whole organisation. wtf else are we even doing.

20:38:45 mircea_popescu: heh.

20:38:53 williamdunne: But I would prefer to be in business and doing compliance than out of business and not

20:39:28 mircea_popescu: sucks toi be you i guess.

20:39:39 williamdunne: Moral dilemma

20:39:52 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/572468782057013248/WtdCdJXG_400x400.jpeg << so who are teh people ?

20:39:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBvVj4 )

20:40:20 williamdunne: L <-> R

20:40:20 williamdunne: Friend, Moi, Friend, Girlfriend

20:41:01 mircea_popescu: that's more "what" , but anyway.

20:41:18 mircea_popescu: ima read this noob blog later, off to eat some steak. you know what this means, ben_vulpes ? steak ? yes ?

20:41:19 mircea_popescu: mwahahaha.

20:42:16 *: ben_vulpes sobs

20:42:20 williamdunne: http://thethug.life/reputation-commodity-exchange/#fn:1 << bro do you even airgap? << Me? Not for my personal key anyway

20:42:21 assbot: Your reputation is a commodity — Lego Under the Giant's Feet ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBwfOT )

20:43:21 ben_vulpes: the point is a constrasting of how people use keys (properly) and how people use trezors (improperly)

20:43:52 williamdunne: "I am not saying that the needs of the many will not be heard or, when they're justified needs, attended to, but I am saying that they must be channeled through their liege lords instead of democratically elected "representatives" who solicit donations from the rich by promising to protect them from the ravages of the destitute mob, and votes from the destitute mob by promising to protect them from the

20:43:52 williamdunne: depredations of the vile capitalists, ultimately serving only their own cronies at the expense of both those who funded their campaigns and those who voted for them. " heh

20:44:16 williamdunne: Concise summary

20:44:55 ben_vulpes: hey well mircea_popescu i'm off to have some real coffe

20:45:01 ben_vulpes: savvy?

20:47:02 williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Okay read your article

20:47:35 williamdunne: I guess what missing from it is that I still don't see why the increase in block-size, or easier access to running a semi-node is inherently bad

20:47:50 williamdunne: Nor why having more people using it is bad

20:48:11 williamdunne: While comparisons between bitcoin and a party fully of popped-collars are fine it doesn't really answer the question

20:48:34 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110314 <<< this is just the default manner wordpress creates an archive page, i think, unless bb made changes

20:48:34 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:27:00; mircea_popescu: cazalla dude the http://qntra.net/archives/ page kicks ass.

20:55:27 williamdunne: Wyrdmantis: Thanks for the words earlier.

20:57:25 wyrdmantis: williamdunne: I appreciate the "Lego Under the Giant's Feet" header among other things. And the paypal post also :)

20:58:02 williamdunne: Thank you, yeah. Plenty of derpage about paypal

21:07:52 cazalla: ben_vulpes, first link in your "Bitcoin needs no changes to destroy your world" article is busted

21:11:02 mod6: trinque: going throught this 'building a gentoo ami' guide... any thoughts on the "Select system profile" section? I was about to pick #11...

21:12:59 trinque: mod6: I tend to use the hardened profile along with a hardened kernel

21:13:12 trinque: with the normal glibc, not any of the alternatives

21:13:25 trinque: for whatever good pax and grsecurity actually do..

21:14:22 mod6: alright. pretend i don't know what any of that means.

21:14:45 mod6: #11 is ok?

21:14:55 trinque: dunno them by number :)

21:14:58 trinque: what's the title

21:15:12 trinque: hardened/linux/amd64 ?

21:15:19 mod6: hardened/linux/amd64/no-multilib

21:15:37 trinque: no-multilib is probably fine if you don't intend to use any 32bit things

21:16:09 mod6: yeah, not on this machine. i'll probably end up creating a totally seperate 32bit instance at another time.

21:16:15 trinque: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Hardened << worth reading

21:16:16 assbot: Project:Hardened - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnrD5W )

21:16:25 mod6: ok thx!

21:16:27 trinque: no problemo

21:16:50 menahem: seeing as everyone is posting their blog love, i did write this today: http://chedr.ca/2015/04/your-emotions-are-irrelevant-and-youve-missed-the-point/ (brings up mircea_popescu 's discussion on RIPple with W3C)

21:16:51 assbot: Your emotions are irrelevant, and you've missed the point - Chedr ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnrEXF )

21:19:07 mod6: eek! nano keybindings!

21:31:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.00030493 = 13.9048 BTC [+]

21:35:08 trinque: mod6: of course as per earlier thread, this idea that xen guests can be secure is laughable

21:35:52 trinque: rules out a class of problems I guess, but certainly should still be considered enemy territory

21:36:40 mod6: yeah, i got that from the above convo about hypervisors. thanks.

21:37:49 mod6: i guess this is just my first attempt at it. this build of gentoo needs to built with nothing extra so we can build all of the rest by hand, then we'll have a clue as to what tool chain it's using and it's not using something wacky behind our backs.

21:38:01 mod6: "stripped down" basically.

21:38:22 mod6: s/wacky/unexpected/

21:39:43 trinque: mod6: for sure

21:39:55 trinque: what I'd love to see someday is a DC with no virtualization, just tinier boxes

21:41:02 trinque: and some automation around sending new boxes of various sizes into service

21:42:03 trinque: I once worked for a company that was early (first?) in the server blade space; something like that where there's a uniform backplane which can host different configurations, maybe

21:43:06 mod6: cool.

21:43:24 mod6: this menuconfig thing ...

21:43:30 trinque: shit isn't it?

21:43:38 trinque: hitting ? will let you search for symbols

21:43:42 mod6: i don't even see the paravirtualized guest support option

21:43:50 trinque: and from that screen a number key will let you jump to a result

21:43:59 mod6: ok cool. thanks.

21:44:02 trinque: I am embarassed to admit that it took until this year for me to discover that

21:44:04 trinque: :D

21:44:38 mod6: > Search (Paravirtualized)

21:44:46 mod6: No matches found.

21:44:47 mod6: lol

21:45:24 mod6: oh, search for Xen found it.

21:45:33 mod6: Linux guest support (HYPERVISOR_GUEST [=n])

21:46:06 williamdunne: trinque: Wouldn't that be the same as any DC that offers cheap metal?

21:46:41 trinque: williamdunne: I tend to think there's a place for metal as cheap as a micro ec2 instance for example

21:47:05 williamdunne: trinque: Oh like a stack of rPis in a server enclosure?

21:47:11 trinque: could exist, I'm not aware if so

21:47:25 trinque: williamdunne: yeah aside from the rpi being a particularly heinous device

21:47:28 williamdunne: Yeah I'm not aware either

21:47:29 trinque: not that I don't own many of them

21:47:33 williamdunne: Sure, just the general idea

21:47:38 trinque: indeed

21:47:55 trinque: so then, the nice thing about ec2 is you can spin up instances of various sizes and it "just happens" rapidly

21:48:11 trinque: that's where having racks that can rack/unrack hardware on the fly and a uniform backplane sounds appealing

21:48:37 williamdunne: For sure

21:48:39 trinque: that part might be retarded, and effort might be better put into anticipating what hardware needs to be on the racks already

21:51:42 trinque: it's a problem that from the perspective of trying to maximize occupancy is much easier to solve with the virtualization turd

21:53:05 mod6: ok qq: i saved the config as 'btc-dev-gentoo64-ami.config', under the chroot: /usr/src/linux ; do I need to do anything specific to ensure that I'm compiling with this config instead of the defaulted filename '.config' ?

21:53:41 trinque: mod6: there may or may not be a flag to tell it to use a different config file, but by default it will use .config

21:53:52 trinque: typically I copy the config there, and also store it elsewhere for reuse

21:53:52 mod6: ok

21:54:00 trinque: so you don't mrproper yourself out of a config

21:54:09 mod6: gotcha

21:54:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62200 @ 0.00030141 = 18.7477 BTC [-]

21:54:47 Naphex: mod6: i'd just do the chroot thing and getting it done. doing a custom kernel won't help you much running in a hypervisor

21:54:49 mod6: i just copied my config to .config, w/e

21:55:07 mod6: Naphex: im pretty dumb.

21:55:19 trinque: Naphex: rolling your own gentoo is a good learning experience

21:55:40 Naphex: trinque: yeah but might as well just skip the kernel.

21:55:41 mod6: i know like, zero about gentoo.

21:56:01 Naphex: trinque: gentoo doesn't even have iptables defaulted, so as soon as his done he'll end up recompiling

21:56:12 trinque: recompiling the kernel 100 times is sop

21:56:16 trinque: :)

21:56:27 mod6: awe fuq

21:56:49 trinque: sure configuring a kernel is a massive pain in the dick, but at least you get more acquainted with what's in there

21:57:11 Naphex: trinque: i like doing it once and then just reusing the config on the same hardware :P

21:57:23 trinque: indeed, he's just getting started!

21:57:28 trinque: no sense in giving him the answers to the test

21:57:31 Naphex: but if you wanna learn on aws go for it. if you just want to set up chroot and start bootstrapping

21:59:01 asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://imgur.com/a/xogco << back from this

21:59:02 assbot: electron microscopy visit - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1bFqGR5 )

21:59:02 gribble: The operation succeeded.

21:59:14 Naphex: mod6: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Base#Chrooting make a folder, unpack stage 3.

21:59:15 assbot: Installing the Gentoo base system - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1bFqFwF )

21:59:20 Naphex: later you can keep on recompiling the kernel

21:59:55 trinque: Naphex: eh? stage 3 doesn't give you a kernel

21:59:59 trinque: or does it now?

22:00:03 trinque: never did before

22:00:12 Naphex: trinque: it is in portage, you do an emerge for gentoo-sources

22:00:24 Naphex: trinque: or hardened-sources for production

22:00:27 trinque: uhuh, that's not a compiled kernel

22:00:29 mod6: that's what i just am doing now. it's compiling from that.

22:00:33 trinque: you still have to configure it

22:00:38 trinque: or use genkernel like some kind of pedestrian

22:00:47 mod6: i have a chroot set up, and all that. im still not even sure how any of this will work.

22:00:58 mod6: but i'll just take your word for it.

22:01:33 Naphex: trinque: genkernel is pretty helpful on servers with firmware for building a quick initramfs

22:01:40 trinque: you keep saying "quick"

22:01:42 Naphex: trinque: boot time is fast anyway

22:01:44 trinque: that's not what's called for when learning

22:01:54 trinque: neither is boot time being fast relevant

22:02:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110312 << what, i gotta draw a picture ?

22:02:19 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:22:57; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110187 << you know how the literary criticism goes, "don't tell, show". you've not really shown.

22:02:20 Naphex: well its better to learn from best practices on these kind of things and drill down

22:02:23 asciilifeform: ;;google jvm exploit

22:02:24 gribble: The Java Security Exploit in (Mostly) Plain English - Tim Boudreau: http://timboudreau.com/blog/The_Java_Security_Exploit_in_(Mostly)_Plain_English/read; Report: Half of all exploits target Java | JavaWorld: http://www.javaworld.com/article/2104862/java-security/report-half-of-all-exploits-target-java.html; Java and Java Virtual Machine security vulnerabilities ... - Black (1 more message)

22:02:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28941 @ 0.00030133 = 8.7208 BTC [-]

22:02:39 trinque: asciilifeform: reminds me, you are the top result for "critique of clojure" on my googles at least

22:02:55 asciilifeform: trinque: was among top ~10 for 'clojure' per se, for a while

22:03:00 trinque: nice

22:03:37 Naphex: asciilifeform: applets are applets and security issues are all around. being a good dev implies taking care with deploying your product

22:03:47 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110320 << fits right in the the other 1,001 things that turn into turd ideas when 'everybody does it', like private automobile

22:03:47 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:29:26; mircea_popescu: not to even consider the fact that once this commodifies, the night discount goes away

22:04:08 asciilifeform: Naphex: how do you take care of undiscovered 0days in turdware stack ?

22:04:12 asciilifeform: other than by -not using it-

22:04:17 trinque: asciilifeform: uh like, #shipit

22:04:19 Naphex: asciilifeform: and you get all sorts of added on. as well the standerd jre is pretty clean. most of the exploiting fun is on j2ee app servers and other enterprisey thingies

22:04:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126309 @ 0.00030571 = 38.6139 BTC [+] {2}

22:05:02 asciilifeform: http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-5/product_id-1526/cvssscoremin-6/cvssscoremax-6.99/SUN-JRE.html << mmno.

22:05:03 assbot: SUN JRE : List of security vulnerabilities ... ( http://bit.ly/1bFrGES )

22:05:18 asciilifeform: if that's 'pretty clean', i shudder to imagine Naphex's idea of 'dirty'

22:05:23 Naphex: asciilifeform: there won't be any 0days in the basic stuff. There are rarely buffers in the stack. And everything is accounted for. NIO/events/the threads etc are all safe and you don't give raw user input to them

22:05:33 Naphex: asciilifeform: getting any shellcode anywhere would be retarded

22:06:09 Naphex: asciilifeform: the languasge and jre are pretty fine. when it comes to enterprise stacks and j2ee it goes all around

22:06:13 asciilifeform: but to get back to original thread, i wasn't even specifically thinking of 0days in the jre itself, but the overall turdification and prevention of fits-in-head that java inescapably leads to.

22:06:33 Naphex: asciilifeform: and you defend from 0 days as always. running hardened and buring your servers while filltering all input

22:06:38 asciilifeform: to paraphrase mircea_popescu article, if christ saves in java - let me go straight to hell.

22:06:53 Naphex: burying*

22:07:02 asciilifeform: burying ?

22:07:09 asciilifeform: mistranslation from ??? ?

22:07:35 asciilifeform: where should i bury my servers? back yard? cemetery ?

22:07:55 Naphex: asciilifeform: in your private encrypted lan maybe

22:08:00 trinque: wtf is this guy?

22:08:16 trinque: Naphex: there's a difference between knowing of things and knowing them comprehensively

22:08:35 Naphex: i agree ;]

22:09:32 trinque: so atop your shit tower of an incomprehensible computing stack and a further incomprehensible virtual computing stack you what?

22:09:42 trinque: it's all probably fine because reasons?

22:10:00 Naphex: huh?

22:10:42 trinque: the situation there is too complex for you or any other fool to be able to claim with certainty that it's secure

22:10:53 Naphex: which situation?

22:11:07 trinque: I'm not going to copy and paste the last 20 lines of logs for you

22:11:25 Naphex: well i have no clue what you're saying is too complex

22:11:32 Naphex: to be secure

22:11:52 Naphex: wtf are you talking about really?

22:12:06 asciilifeform: gotta love this ritualistic 'secure' that doesn't entail actually understanding anything

22:12:29 trinque: asciilifeform: you just cast "protect" with enough manna and you're good

22:12:30 Naphex: asciilifeform: are your servers secure ascii?

22:12:31 asciilifeform: mumble the words, sprinkle blood of virgin --- s3cur3!

22:12:43 Naphex: asciilifeform: do you do any net code? in what?

22:12:45 Naphex: is it secure?

22:12:50 trinque: also make sure you've got an enterprise grade "encrypted LAN"

22:12:58 Naphex: asciilifeform: how do you defend from 0days? on the stuff you host?

22:13:04 asciilifeform: Naphex likes to ask questions.

22:13:22 Naphex: preach me the 'secure' way please

22:13:25 Naphex: i'd like the learn

22:13:31 Naphex: to*

22:13:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39796 @ 0.00031407 = 12.4987 BTC [+] {3}

22:13:41 asciilifeform: Naphex: if you actually would - straight to the logs.

22:14:03 asciilifeform: Naphex: if you're interested in my concept in particular, see article 'don't blame the mice.'

22:14:20 Naphex: asciilifeform: i do work, explain me in tehnical terms

22:14:24 Naphex: do you do anything to prevent?

22:14:36 Naphex: or protect yourself, any techniques?

22:14:45 trinque: "I don't want to read that much; can you tweet me about secure?"

22:15:11 Naphex: trinque: lol, you think encrypted lans are 'enterprise'

22:15:15 asciilifeform: !s specificity of diddling

22:15:16 assbot: 4 results for 'specificity of diddling' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=specificity+of+diddling

22:15:19 asciilifeform: ^ basic principle

22:15:23 asciilifeform: Naphex ^

22:16:04 trinque: Naphex: you'd have to give me a coherent explanation of what you think an encrypted LAN is before I could possibly tell you what I think about it.

22:16:25 Naphex: trinque: if you have servers, and they are linked together maybe you're using a DC Switch

22:16:36 Naphex: trinque: and you might want the data transfered between them, you know encrypted

22:16:43 Naphex: so people don't snoop on it. maybe its private

22:17:08 williamdunne: Naphex: Isn't the general idea that you use end-to-end encryption not hub and spoke encryption

22:17:11 Naphex: so maybe you setup, ipsec.. or something to keep that channel encrypted.

22:17:51 Naphex: williamdunne: ipsec is end-to-end

22:19:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00031689 = 2.9312 BTC [+] {2}

22:21:00 trinque: Naphex: it takes some humility to be able to see that while you may be able to reason about ipsec in the abstract, neither you nor anyone else can take the current computing stack and fit it in his head

22:21:19 trinque: (notwithstanding that I don't see how ipsec protects some JRE app)

22:21:41 trinque: if you cannot fit it in your head, you are a liar if you point to it and say you know it to be secure

22:22:10 trinque: if we're talking about how best to patch the raft we're riding in, sure, tape the thing and hope for the best

22:22:26 trinque: if tape is all you have

22:22:50 decimation: no analysis of security can begin without identifying exactly what one wishes to keep secret, and from whom

22:26:16 Naphex: trinque: okay. make your point

22:27:02 Naphex: trinque: is it the word secuire thats the problem, s/secure/replace/ ?

22:27:41 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://imgur.com/a/xogco << back from this << oooh

22:27:42 assbot: electron microscopy visit - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1bFv82r )

22:28:04 Naphex: anyway, what i was saying is you take steps 'secure' or tape your stuff always, and you don't feed raw data to your apps if you can filter the input beforehand.

22:28:21 asciilifeform: again with the rituals and enumerated badness.

22:29:31 Naphex: anyway. words ain't much to me and I ain't one to duke it out on irc for random bullshit

22:29:35 decimation: Naphex: can you sign your name under the resulting machine code - all of it - that will 'filter' and 'app' the crap coming from your socket?

22:29:38 Naphex: keep your stuff safe. i try to

22:30:27 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ... prevention of fits-in-head << can vouch for the pita of this in clojure

22:30:30 ben_vulpes: how does it work?

22:30:32 ben_vulpes: fuck if i know.

22:31:09 asciilifeform: Naphex: ... I ain't one to duke it out on irc for random bullshit << spewing garbage, on the other hand, is perfectly fine ?

22:31:12 Naphex: decimation: yeah, you can do a lot of stuff. depending on far you want to go

22:31:50 Naphex: asciilifeform: which part of it was garbage?

22:32:06 asciilifeform: the 'filtering', 'encrypted lan', and other idiot industry shibboleths

22:32:14 asciilifeform: the jvm advocacy

22:32:16 Naphex: what's wrong with them?

22:32:19 asciilifeform: and pretty much all of it.

22:32:29 ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> trinque: Oh like a stack of rPis in a server enclosure? << just start buying cheap old blades and racking them.

22:32:34 Naphex: yeah jvm does its job what of it?

22:32:39 ben_vulpes: there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old blades.

22:32:42 Naphex: and i wasn't advocating it

22:32:45 Naphex: you were shiting on it

22:32:50 asciilifeform: i will continue to shit on it.

22:32:55 Naphex: as i will on clisp

22:33:04 asciilifeform: clisp is pretty bad.

22:33:04 ben_vulpes: lol what is clisp?

22:33:07 Naphex: cause it shit, and the paranthesis suck

22:33:16 ben_vulpes: bahahaha

22:33:19 Naphex: :P

22:33:23 ben_vulpes: wow i've never heard that argument made in the wild

22:33:42 ben_vulpes: what -- specifically -- hurts about the parens, naphex?

22:33:51 Naphex: ben_vulpes: the button

22:33:57 trinque: oh dear

22:34:02 Naphex: and really, i hate the way they look

22:34:09 Naphex: (

22:34:10 trinque: ben_vulpes: cheap blades for sure

22:34:12 Naphex: )))

22:34:42 *: ben_vulpes ' tiny brain drips from ears

22:34:45 asciilifeform: naggum had an interesting observation about why folks very quickly bring out the 'parentheses pain' >> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3138961746451885@naggum.no.html

22:34:46 assbot: Re: Follow up to "New To Lisp: Advantages of Lisp syntax" - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1bFw1YO )

22:34:53 decimation: blades suck ass, but you can probably buy them from junk dealers for cheap

22:35:02 asciilifeform: but i think we did this one here. nobody, apparently, reads logs

22:35:23 trinque: decimation: yeah, the idea would be to replace tiny VMs I think

22:35:25 trinque: I'd have a use for that

22:35:28 *: trinque has to step away for a bit

22:35:43 trinque: Naphex: consider that your gut reactions may be poorly tuned

22:36:34 decimation: I'm not against putting things on bare metal, just that blades lock you into a generally shitty 'blade-crate' vendor

22:36:57 Naphex: trinque: what do you do?

22:37:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00030014 = 23.681 BTC [-]

22:37:16 ben_vulpes: menahem: blockquotes on your blog with the email formatting is a pita to read

22:37:20 ben_vulpes: !up menahem

22:37:42 ben_vulpes: decimation: what do you mean 'blade-crate' vendor?

22:37:48 asciilifeform: Naphex: the button << wai wat

22:37:55 menahem: ben_vulpes totally. didnt know how to approach that.

22:38:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00029199 = 3.7667 BTC [-]

22:38:07 ben_vulpes: Naphex: he runs a payment processor and web fast food order taker/relayer to fast fooderies

22:38:14 ben_vulpes: built the whole thing himself, he did

22:38:24 Naphex: trinque: how do you keep the payment data secure?

22:38:35 ben_vulpes: menahem: try a <pre> tag instead

22:38:37 Naphex: do you worry about 0days? and attacks?

22:38:57 menahem: ben_vulpes ill give that a go next time.

22:39:00 Naphex: trinque: have you any protection in place for the payment data and the orders?

22:39:05 menahem: thanks tho.

22:40:34 Naphex: trinque: do you consider your solutions secure?

22:41:42 decimation: ben_vulpes: how do you mount your blades to the rack?

22:43:01 ben_vulpes: usually i bolt them on directly, but i'm a barbarian and haven't actually derped much with physical servers.

22:43:12 ben_vulpes: you're talking about slides etc?

22:43:34 decimation: are you talking about a server that fits in 1u or 2u?

22:43:49 ben_vulpes: i've only ever racked 1us

22:44:04 ben_vulpes: you people keep mistaking me for someone who knows what he's doing or talking about

22:44:24 decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_server#/media/File:Enclosure_proliant.jpg

22:44:25 assbot: Blade server - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1bFxkqz )

22:44:44 decimation: typically the word 'blade' is used for a computer that's mounted vertically in the rack, in some kind of proprietary container

22:44:53 ben_vulpes: ah gotcha

22:44:55 decimation: usually with power, bus, network, etc supplied as part of the 'crate'

22:44:59 ben_vulpes: my mistake my mistake

22:45:04 decimation: as opposed to a 1u server you slip into the rack

22:45:07 ben_vulpes: yup

22:45:32 ben_vulpes: <ben_vulpes> there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old servers << okay fixd

22:45:56 decimation: yeah makes sense

22:46:10 decimation: although in terms of raw compute power/watt they can suck

22:47:58 decimation: actually I wonder how many folks use an old dell/hp server hosted at home on their cable modem

22:48:08 decimation: and then route packets through aws just for spam protection

22:48:10 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110783 << kakobrekla linked to one of these.

22:48:10 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 21:39:55; trinque: what I'd love to see someday is a DC with no virtualization, just tinier boxes

22:49:01 asciilifeform: (some place that let out 'arm' boxes)

22:50:08 decimation: asciilifeform: supposedly there are moves to stuff thousands of little arm servers in a rack

22:50:14 decimation: but I haven't seen it become mainstream

22:50:35 asciilifeform: decimation: kakobrekla linked to a farm which takes orders even now, but i don't have the url handy

22:50:48 asciilifeform: in the log, somewhere.

22:51:09 decimation: yeah but you can't go to dell,hp, and order a crate of arm boxes (to my knowledge)

22:52:05 asciilifeform: decimation: they operate under the dictum 'thou shalt not produce machine upon which microshit cannot run and in fact be the preferred or forced choice'

22:52:19 asciilifeform: when microshit's arm winblows catched up, dell et al - will ship'em.

22:52:24 asciilifeform: *catches

22:54:30 decimation: HP recommends Microsoft Windows

22:54:57 decimation: actually dell kinda tried http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-c5125/pd

22:54:58 assbot: Dell PowerEdge C5125 Microserver | Dell ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5Pdbb )

22:55:06 decimation: but 12 servers in a 3u box is lam

22:55:08 asciilifeform: and will sell you the necessary x86 box, yes, 'in any colour you like so long as...' (TM)

22:55:16 decimation: need 100 in a 3u box

22:55:56 decimation: there's an obvious tension between "we sell you cheap enterprise servers" and "we only support xeon"

22:56:33 *: asciilifeform wonders if any known arm incarnation supports ecc ram

22:57:33 decimation: asciilifeform: did you notice that ti now sells msp430 with 'fram'?

22:57:37 decimation: http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/microcontrollers_16-bit_32-bit/msp/ultra-low_power/msp430frxx_fram/overview.page

22:57:38 assbot: FRAM Microcontroller - Overview - MSP430 FRAM Series - TI.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5PXwU )

22:57:57 *: asciilifeform recalls a number of these

22:59:13 decimation: msp430 actually is a decent candidate for small micro-controller of interest

22:59:28 decimation: there are full verilog implementations available, for future-proofing

22:59:43 asciilifeform: available where ?

22:59:56 decimation: one of the few 'open-cores' that isn't vaporware

23:00:16 decimation: http://opencores.org/project,openmsp430

23:00:17 assbot: openMSP430 :: Overview :: OpenCores ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5QG1b )

23:00:33 asciilifeform: neato

23:00:38 decimation: also some guy claims to have a working 'gnat' implementation http://sourceforge.net/projects/msp430ada/

23:00:39 assbot: MSP430-Ada | SourceForge.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5QM9e )

23:00:46 *: asciilifeform tried 'opensparc' and a number of smaller things, but not this

23:01:04 decimation: unfortunately no floating point unit, but that isn't needed for the target market here

23:13:18 trinque: Naphex: one does the best he can with the leaky raft

23:13:32 trinque: but that should not keep him from imagining a better vessel

23:15:24 asciilifeform: trinque: '... if you actually cause them to understand it in the course of a discussion, you will only make them miserable and hate their lives. People are pretty good at detecting that this is a likely outcome of thinking, and it takes conscious effort to brace yourself and get through such experiences.'

23:15:38 asciilifeform: ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244575386963745@naggum.no.html << much on topic.)

23:15:39 assbot: Re: Lisp advocacy misadventures - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5VN1m )

23:15:54 trinque: very much so, have read it

23:16:10 asciilifeform: !up gabriel_laddel

23:16:13 gabriel_laddel: thank you

23:17:07 asciilifeform: trinque: doctor sometimes tells patient hard truths about where the latter is headed. but doctor can dispense dope to ease the pain. this is hard to do over irc.

23:17:07 gabriel_laddel: Naphex: regarding security - read more. A few links that have turned up in the logs are available at http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html#sec-6-2-3

23:17:09 assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5Wjwg )

23:17:52 gabriel_laddel: Naphex: regarding lisp - read more. This section + footnotes http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html#sec-6-2-1

23:17:53 assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5WvMd )

23:17:58 gabriel_laddel: then read all of loper os

23:18:01 gabriel_laddel: then all of the logs

23:18:47 gabriel_laddel: EVERYTHING you've thought on the subject has been covered.

23:20:57 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that clock i bought from the street spammer works about as well as ought to be expected. sometimes stops for 2,3,4,5+ hours - then runs... then, again...

23:21:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: almost made the mistake of trying to catch the planes by that clock, but realized in time.

23:21:58 asciilifeform: i mention it because i can imagine a world where such clocks are considered not only acceptable, but 'state of the art' and 'best practice'

23:22:45 asciilifeform: (if computing is any guide of the quantity and sheer vomitrous power of fecalia people can be persuaded to swallow)

23:26:38 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell mircea_popescu on the contrary! http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/24/narrated-video-of-the-poem-stop-all-the-clocks-again/#comment-16132

23:26:39 assbot: Narrated video of the poem ‘Stop all the clocks (again)’ | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5ZoN2 )

23:26:39 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:26:54 pete_dushenski: goddam wp is hit and miss.

23:27:24 williamdunne: gabriel_laddel:

23:27:26 pete_dushenski: in any event... just read your bitcoin treatise, ben_vulpes. sharp!

23:32:18 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell peterl if you're alive, http://bablogs.btcscoop.com isn't talking to cascadianhacker.

23:32:19 assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts ... ( http://bit.ly/1E61dJK )

23:32:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:32:46 pete_dushenski: williamdunne mebbe you could have scoopbot_revived post to a page on your site ?

23:33:07 Naphex: gabriel_laddel: hi o/ thanks for the links, what is Masamune? did you write it?

23:33:07 pete_dushenski: a blogpost repository of sorts for b-a

23:33:11 williamdunne: What like a log of all blog posts

23:33:18 gabriel_laddel: Naphex: Currently writing it.

23:33:20 williamdunne: Definitely possible

23:33:24 Naphex: gabriel_laddel: what is it?

23:33:33 gabriel_laddel: Naphex: read the linked post if you'd like to know

23:33:34 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: I'll do that tomorrow/Monday

23:33:44 pete_dushenski: williamdunne i'd appreciate this service and i'm sure i'm not alone

23:33:46 Naphex: gabriel_laddel: maybe other people want to know too, i will check the link

23:33:54 Naphex: gabriel_laddel: maybe other people wanna know and ask questions

23:34:07 Naphex: gabriel_laddel: can you tell me anything about it?

23:34:08 gabriel_laddel: and perhaps I'll tell them to stfu and read?

23:34:15 gabriel_laddel: FUCK YOU READ MORE

23:34:17 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Sure, a #b-a library of sorts

23:34:25 Naphex: oh

23:34:30 Naphex: well fuck off then

23:34:36 Naphex: you and your shitty github page

23:34:49 Naphex: see i don't have to care

23:34:58 gabriel_laddel: ;; gettrust Naphex

23:34:58 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user gabriel_laddel to user Naphex: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=gabriel_laddel&dest=Naphex | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Naphex | Rated since: Tue Apr 15 12:14:50 2014

23:35:04 pete_dushenski: williamdunne exactly that. thanks for taking a look at this! damn you're useful.

23:35:58 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Very welcome. Not too big of a job

23:37:19 williamdunne: It won't cover all of history though, most of the RSS feeds only cover 5-10 posts each

23:37:33 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110730 << williamdunne, whoa are you like 21 or something ?

23:37:33 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 20:39:52; mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/572468782057013248/WtdCdJXG_400x400.jpeg << so who are teh people ?

23:37:38 williamdunne: Although obviously it will cover all future posts

23:37:44 williamdunne: pete_dushenski: 18

23:37:52 pete_dushenski: lol snap.

23:38:06 pete_dushenski: an impressed is me.

23:38:15 williamdunne: Thanks, thought I'd start young

23:38:31 pete_dushenski: and yea, 5-10 posts or w/e is fine.

23:38:43 pete_dushenski: of history.

23:40:51 williamdunne: Ideal, well I can definitely get that done, not a big job. I'll see if there is any standardized way to get RSS to provide a full history

23:41:32 pete_dushenski: excellent.

23:43:06 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110941 << interestingly, i asked about the cost. was told something like '$1m for the old style, 2.5 for the new generation.' fella said this with straight face, too, as if there were nothing remarkable about this factoid.

23:43:06 assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 22:27:41; ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://imgur.com/a/xogco << back from this << oooh

23:43:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al ^^^ mega-inflationary-l0lz4tr0n

23:44:07 pete_dushenski: ;;later tell menahem re: http://chedr.ca/2015/04/your-emotions-are-irrelevant-and-youve-missed-the-point/ << 1. dunno why i didn't see the trackbacks from this... 2. kinda hard to read with all the >>>>s 3. a blogger is you!

23:44:08 assbot: Your emotions are irrelevant, and you've missed the point - Chedr ... ( http://bit.ly/1QuBrFK )

23:44:08 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:44:30 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: creature in the photo is pet, not owner of instrument

23:45:19 asciilifeform: item in the chamber was, i think, a dragonfly

23:45:34 menahem: pete_dushenski ive got a good assistant now.. freed up some time. ;) and agreed, my bad on the >>, it's an email thread.

23:45:35 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform i seem to recall '$1mn' being tossed around about 10 years ago

23:46:10 pete_dushenski: menahem just something to edit out. blogs aren't chiseled in stone y'know ;)

23:46:25 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: it also matters, for what. usually these things need 3-phase mains, cooling water, often - a handy dewar with ln2, maintenance contract, etc.

23:47:02 menahem: pete_dushenski def, ill try <pre> as per ben_vulpes reco. always a work in progress. :)

23:47:26 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform ugh 'maintenance contracts'. perhaps the only thing more blood-sucking than a mortgage

23:47:29 asciilifeform: the vacuum pumps (all stages) appeared to be built into the cabinet, however.

23:47:41 asciilifeform: also visited a place where they did sputtering.

23:48:27 pete_dushenski: for the ignorant, what's 'sputtering' ?

23:49:11 asciilifeform: http://www.uccs.edu/~tchriste/courses/PHYS549/549lectures/sputtertech.html << likbez

23:49:12 assbot: UCCS | 404 Page Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1E66Tn3 )

23:49:54 asciilifeform: chances are, you are looking at a sputtered surface right now.

23:50:01 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OEz_e9C4KM

23:50:03 assbot: Intro to sputtering (process to create clear, conductive coatings) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1E6795x )

23:50:31 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform will watch.

23:50:42 asciilifeform: ^ not my film, but interesting

23:50:45 menahem: pete_dushenski maintenance contracts - no good ? i love selling them. :)

23:51:30 pete_dushenski: well... i'm sure you do!

23:52:36 pete_dushenski: !rate williamdunne 1 responsive and energetic.

23:52:36 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a8f4c7444fc61a2f

23:52:46 menahem: some things need the luv, or they deteriorate. much like buildings, roads, etc. much won't sustain without the maintenance.

23:53:03 pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.williamdunne.1:bbe7dc99e44de364bb27d4745e33db2b80fc3d8da77a371c288223af85f3c58b

23:53:03 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for williamdunne with note: responsive and energetic.

23:53:08 williamdunne: Thanks Pete

23:54:09 pete_dushenski: np.

23:56:18 pete_dushenski: !rate menahem 2 had drinks, had coffee, finally knocked sense into him.

23:56:18 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9c7c3a0850fe3681

23:56:35 pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.menahem.2:ff2b6568a2919406cdfcef2c2fbd6c6c89985e454a358859584b18a3b7613147

23:56:35 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for menahem from 1 to 2 with note: had drinks, had coffee, finally knocked sense into him.

23:57:03 menahem: lol! sense you knocked into me indeed. much appreciated!

23:57:20 menahem: still doing it. ;)

23:57:34 pete_dushenski: lol what else am i good for ?

23:57:44 menahem: well, I read your new poem

23:57:56 menahem: well, remake of one

23:58:40 menahem: "If I can keep it together when all and everyone

23:58:40 menahem: Are losing their cool and hating me,

23:58:40 menahem: If I can trust my WoT until my time is done,

23:58:40 menahem: And be the Pete the world requires of me"

23:59:05 pete_dushenski: i'm such a rhymer.

23:59:13 pete_dushenski: me and... me

23:59:33 pete_dushenski: love to keep going but meatspace beckons.

23:59:39 pete_dushenski: until next time!

23:59:45 menahem: lol, love is only increasing ! you being you (and like others in the wot) is bringing out the best in people.. even though they may not realize it this moment.

23:59:50 menahem: ha, see ya.