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Transcript for 25-06-2015, 2179 lines:

00:00:13 asciilifeform: 'mac' ~can~ be treated as something like an irix or solaris box, as a funny-looking frame around a bourne shell and x11 terminal

00:00:17 asciilifeform: winblows - not.

00:00:50 mircea_popescu: "Pixar does NOT use Apple computers to make 3D for their movies (modeling, animation, render, shaders, etc.). They use Linux, just like everyone else in the industry. Now they might use a Mac to paint a background or texture something but all feature animation is done in Linux (Disney, Dreamworks, Sony Animation, Blue Sky, etc. etc.). That's also true for SFX shops like ILM, Weta, Sony Imageworks, DD, etc. etc. All Lin

00:00:50 mircea_popescu: ux."

00:00:53 mircea_popescu: i had no idea.

00:01:16 asciilifeform: why would anyone use anything other than linux boxen for a headless render farm

00:01:17 asciilifeform: ?

00:01:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 1117 @ 0.00111 = 1.2399 BTC {2}

00:01:29 mircea_popescu: "modeling, animation, render, shaders"

00:01:46 asciilifeform: they, likely, have proper card specs from nvidia etc. under nda

00:01:47 mircea_popescu: why would someone use something other than the car to go shop ? "oh, this is for work!!1"

00:01:49 mircea_popescu: so it is.

00:02:12 asciilifeform: 'pixar' does not live by same constraints as us mortals

00:02:22 asciilifeform: if they want the gpu datasheet - they get.

00:02:38 asciilifeform: (perhaps minus the 'nsa chapter' but enough to run shader.)

00:04:06 mircea_popescu: anyone can get the mafia to embed an engineer if they have money.

00:05:05 asciilifeform: sure. but why would the 'anyone' make the result available gratis to his competition ?

00:05:57 asciilifeform: (incidentally, the success history of ussr attempting this was spotty, to say the least.)

00:06:08 mircea_popescu: your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case.

00:06:24 mircea_popescu: there's an endless mountaineous heap of work, and the last time i talked to someone even halfway competent was last week.

00:06:35 asciilifeform: 'embed engineer' sounds simple, but he has to be permitted near the jewels, know what's worth stealing, ~and~ continue working for ~you~ rather than the nice fella who now signs his bonuses

00:07:10 *: mircea_popescu waves hand

00:07:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174799 << i live there!

00:07:15 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:06:08; mircea_popescu: your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case.

00:07:18 mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.

00:08:02 asciilifeform: the shortage is of work that 1) pays 2) doesn't make you want to shoot yourself in the head immediately

00:08:51 asciilifeform: 1 or 2 alone - so plentiful that 'you can eat with your arse'

00:09:02 asciilifeform: 1+2 - 'unicorn'

00:09:58 asciilifeform: and there is no shortage whatsoever of 'skilled folk.' there is only shortage at a particular price point.

00:11:49 asciilifeform: while (!hired(bid++)); << convenient algo.

00:11:52 williamdunne: Is this DPB? http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/f42abf63ce15666be179844d74acfa74.jpg

00:11:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BByC18 )

00:12:46 mircea_popescu: williamdunne folk with beards all look the same to you don't they

00:13:14 williamdunne: Possibly

00:13:51 williamdunne: In my defence though, two bitcoiners who look pretty similar

00:13:53 williamdunne: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIRaK8aUcAAdXlR.jpg

00:13:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BByFdt )

00:14:08 williamdunne: With the same bear

00:14:10 williamdunne: *beard

00:14:16 williamdunne: I'm pretty sure it is dpb

00:18:36 mircea_popescu: doesn't look like him to me, but hey. danielpbarron is it or ain't it ?

00:19:40 mircea_popescu: is blondy swallowing a casino chip ?

00:20:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102300 @ 0.00040995 = 41.9379 BTC [-]

00:21:07 williamdunne: Putting her money where her mouth is supposedly

00:22:49 *: asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu's idea of 'competence' approximately equals 'willing to dig in chernoble reactor for 2 rubles / hour'

00:23:08 asciilifeform: these - yes, good luck finding.

00:23:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no dude. it's "go do something useful". after interval, person has done something useful.

00:24:21 mircea_popescu: really very low bar, in any other time than the present

00:24:33 asciilifeform: not hard - yes, today - if ~pay~

00:24:55 asciilifeform: this is ~not~ like the scarcity of, e.g., 'real computer', where ~it doesn't matter if you're rich, it doesn't exist~

00:25:12 mircea_popescu: and yet <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: as far as these folks are concerned, gentoo may as well be a particle accelerator at dubna, ru

00:25:29 asciilifeform: well yes, because all of the things one can't even dream of affording 'look quite alike'

00:25:34 mircea_popescu: no amount of pay is going to deretardify reddit.

00:25:47 asciilifeform: no amount will put out the sun either

00:25:47 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> oris it just the thing chicklets derping on facebook and calling themselves designers favour ? << Largely this. I know a person who "Does Video" for a and I am not making this up: "Storytelling Consultancy" or at least he did. Not sure atm what that douche is doing.

00:25:57 asciilifeform: i was speaking of problems that are at least theoretically worth solving

00:26:23 asciilifeform: e.g., laying down shaded pixels

00:26:38 asciilifeform: or getting $proggy built as-so

00:26:44 mircea_popescu: there's more pixels needing laying down than there are people who can do it. period.

00:26:49 mircea_popescu: infinite pay per capita would not fix this

00:27:04 asciilifeform: in the sense of 'this is like protein folding' - sure

00:27:08 asciilifeform: there is infinite appetite

00:27:17 mircea_popescu: that's the ACTUAL bargaining chip of the sv firms : if you ACTUALLY want us to pay market rate, market rate's infinity and we're paying it. get printing.

00:27:37 asciilifeform: sv pays in counterfeit money

00:27:42 mircea_popescu: it has to!

00:27:49 mircea_popescu: there's no way to pay five people to do six jobs!

00:28:00 mircea_popescu: for pay to work as you expect there's a strict requirement that jobs < people.

00:28:00 asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu wants to remove a pair of hands from sv, all he'd have to do is pay in actual money

00:28:22 mircea_popescu: o, wait, "actual money" = "fixed percent of all the money that'sd ever going to exist" ?

00:28:25 asciilifeform: aha

00:28:36 mircea_popescu: tyvm. but... what fixed percent of all the money that's ever going to exist is microsoft worth ?

00:28:40 mircea_popescu: 0.0001% say ?

00:28:42 mircea_popescu: if that ?

00:28:49 mircea_popescu: so ima pay what, 10 btc for all of redmond ?

00:28:50 asciilifeform: microshit is worth what mosquitoes are worth

00:28:54 asciilifeform: i.e. with negative sign bit

00:29:01 mircea_popescu: this is getting pretty complex.

00:29:02 asciilifeform: what is the removal of the last mosquito 'worth'

00:29:08 mircea_popescu: and i mean that literally. a + bi

00:29:52 asciilifeform: if there were, e.g., a martian in orbit, known for his impeccable honesty, who offered to vaporize every last employee of microshit, present and past, for 10 btc - mircea_popescu would decline ?

00:29:59 mircea_popescu: yes.

00:30:05 asciilifeform: 'not worth bullet' ?

00:30:12 mircea_popescu: for one think, iirc that'd do mike_c in.

00:30:15 asciilifeform: l0l

00:30:30 *: mircea_popescu is too old to fall for "progress" and "future" tricks. i'm not paying for that.

00:30:41 asciilifeform: fair

00:30:53 asciilifeform: and who's to say what weevils will breed in the crater

00:31:01 mircea_popescu: and on it goes.

00:31:05 asciilifeform: but as gedankenexperiment re: what a great blight is 'worth'

00:31:25 mircea_popescu: forget your own opinion, the thing trades on exchanges, worth what, 100bn ?

00:31:39 mircea_popescu: yes, i would trade 10 btc for 100bn "worth" of engineering work.

00:31:40 asciilifeform: sumthinglikethat

00:31:45 mircea_popescu: that's what, two million man-years ?

00:32:20 asciilifeform: measuring software dev in 'man-time' is ~how we got a planet with microshit in the first place~

00:32:35 mircea_popescu: you're the one forcing me to use nonsensical terms to humor you

00:32:39 asciilifeform: l0l

00:32:40 mircea_popescu: now you bitch about their nonsensicalness ?!

00:33:00 asciilifeform: was trying to walk on tightrope between lunacy and sense

00:33:07 mircea_popescu: glwt!

00:33:33 mircea_popescu: it's simple, really : when jobs < people, you can pay. when jobs > people, you gotta let em volunteer. no other way.

00:33:47 mircea_popescu: yes, you gotta distribute resources back out somehow, but it can only be via equity.

00:34:02 mircea_popescu: fnance is what it is, its own kind of thermodynamics, off of which it is actually derived.

00:34:07 asciilifeform: when will mircea_popescu be volunteering for rat shooting detail in the abandoned factories of leningrad ?

00:34:08 mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like.

00:34:15 asciilifeform: more rats than shooters atm

00:34:21 asciilifeform: hence 'all must volunteer' ?

00:34:35 mircea_popescu: well clearly no-one's payin' em ?

00:35:00 mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem exists because it's global. not because "in this tiny island of rust beltlandia so and so rats".

00:35:14 mircea_popescu: this is the first seriouys problem we ran into, ever since this globalization paradigm.

00:35:55 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174884 << i can't pretend to any divine revelation re: the numbers, but what i do see is folks who pay lawyer $xxxxx to solve their problem, and offer programmer $xxx. and then wonder why their programmatic problems remain unsolved. they answer 'lawyer is a man and programmer is a monkey. and the latter gets monkey wage.' answer: you paid for monkey. so that's what you get.

00:35:55 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:34:08; mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like.

00:37:10 mircea_popescu: this scenario only plays out in your own mind (admittedly poisoned by a lot of interaction with idiots). in reality it's like this : there are more jobs than people. the system where you pay people a salary only works when there are more people than jobs. when there are more jobs than people you essentially create a large excavator of sense on a large mountain of problems, and divy up the results somehow. such as they

00:37:10 mircea_popescu: are.

00:37:14 mircea_popescu: this is what i mean by equity.

00:37:48 mircea_popescu: and yes this means people working can end up not making anything. it does. necessarily.

00:38:01 mircea_popescu: in theory it works out to better pay and better working coinditions than the alternative, but

00:38:02 asciilifeform: this is an approachable problem

00:38:17 mircea_popescu: generally when people compare the present with the option they imagine, they take selected bits of each.

00:38:32 asciilifeform: once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation

00:38:51 asciilifeform: ditto the 'problems'

00:38:56 asciilifeform: most of them are not actual problems

00:38:59 mircea_popescu: there's no option here, however. no way will be devised where the systematically wrong model can be employed. it's, essentially, what a scam is : the proposition that we've temporarily turned thermodynamics off.

00:39:00 asciilifeform: but the stink of ape-man shit

00:39:17 mircea_popescu: i am not sure this simplification works as you intend it to.

00:39:25 mircea_popescu: you're cutting off T on one side with dT on the other side.

00:39:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody turned thermodynamics off, but it is entirely possible to have a room full of lunatics mumbling 'vroom, vroom'

00:39:42 asciilifeform: which is what the 'computing industry' is largely about.

00:39:55 mircea_popescu: this while true, makes the problems not an iota smaller.

00:40:09 mircea_popescu: if your house is fulla shit, the realisation that an idiot shat your floor does not clean it any.

00:40:24 asciilifeform: it reduces the 'ocean of problems' to one particular - scientifically formulatable - problem.

00:40:33 mircea_popescu: arguably intellectual problems, such as software, are easier to clean for being virtual rather than physically embodied

00:40:39 mircea_popescu: but still not that much.

00:42:06 asciilifeform: people ask why 'computing is different' and answer is that the field had the misfortune to appear at the same time as the great 'democratization' shit-lathering of the 20th c.

00:42:29 mircea_popescu: not even true. computing appeared in the 50s.

00:42:30 asciilifeform: if, e.g., aeronautics had waited until such a time, 'airplane' would be synonymous with 'f-35'

00:42:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as did the rest of the rot.

00:42:59 mircea_popescu: rest of the rot, imo, appeared in the 80s.

00:43:00 asciilifeform: but computing in the modern, interactive-terminal sense came later.

00:43:20 *: asciilifeform distinguishes act of 'computing' from 'calculating'

00:43:58 *: asciilifeform bbl, off to pet pet

00:44:04 mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs

00:44:10 mircea_popescu: and that's not even counting for the currently alive set.

00:44:27 mircea_popescu: generally, the prospect of being a lawyer is strictly speaking dimmer than the prospect of being a programmer.

00:44:38 mircea_popescu: there's no lawyer that walks away with a bn from a successful buyout.

00:44:43 mircea_popescu: there used to be but... in the 50s!

00:45:09 mircea_popescu: as far as they are concerned, getting an even bummer deal than code monkeys. plus they have the family dynasties stuff to make it more painful.

00:45:35 mircea_popescu: "my grandfather was a senator, and my father made a billion, and i'd better do another line of cock^H^Hke before i think about this too muc"

00:48:05 williamdunne: The best off lawyer I know, made very little of his money directly from being a lawyer

00:49:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00042239 = 8.7012 BTC [+]

00:49:17 mircea_popescu: there are two overlapping misguiding things here. one is, the tournament market. you wouldn't imagine singer/songwriters are better off than you because britney spears, would you ? nor would you imagine "pundits are rich" because oprah, or limbaugh or whatever.

00:50:01 mircea_popescu: in fact. most of these girlies are in the shitter, consider http://fraudsters.com/2014/holy-shit-technical-analysis-is-real/#selection-85.0-89.62

00:50:02 assbot: Holy shit! Technical Analysis is real! on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lpjm9Z )

00:50:17 mircea_popescu: the other one is that, the government. yes, fucktards like shrem end up selling the house to pay "the lawyer".

00:50:29 mircea_popescu: the same would have been true if they were fighting cancer as is true when they are fighting the usg.

00:50:37 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, THE DOCTOR isn't seeing jack of all that.

00:50:40 mircea_popescu: nor is the laywer.

00:51:02 mircea_popescu: might as well say "you programmers don't need any money anyway, look at what google revenue is!"

00:52:54 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation << Ah, the Roof problem. Rook shot up nine respectable civilized folk. If he really cared to address his precieved problem his target ought to have been a crack house.

00:52:54 mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.

00:53:27 mircea_popescu: then coders (unlike doctors! or lawyers! and the lawyers would JUMP at the chance, if it were somehow feasible - but so far it's only feasible in banking and finance, mostly) get the option to work for equity, but

00:53:35 mircea_popescu: well.. "why can't it be like it was for oprah!!11"

00:53:43 mircea_popescu: well duh baby. because it never was, that's why.

00:53:46 BingoBoingo: Because Oprah's a hamplanet

01:00:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70387 @ 0.00042707 = 30.0602 BTC [+]

01:00:50 mircea_popescu: and with math, too : if social expenditure for field is one trillion, and the headcount employed is one million, that means one million get to divy up a hundred million, thus making a whooping 100 a head. that's not even the fabled dollar a day.

01:01:50 mircea_popescu: and yes, the trillion spent means the govt got to offset 990 billion off another whatever indescript entry in its ledger,

01:02:18 mircea_popescu: and yes the trillion spent also means five people got two billion a pop give or take to be paraded across the country with a large jam tomorrow sign affixed.

01:02:25 mircea_popescu: cool, but what does it do ?

01:02:57 mircea_popescu: not like they can spend two billion to buy a hundred thousand aks and ammo for them and shoot the whole charade into the ground

01:03:12 mircea_popescu: because their 2bn is conditionally theirs on the understanding not that it won't get used "for terrorism",

01:03:17 mircea_popescu: but that it won't be used at all.

01:03:26 mircea_popescu: o, nm, you can "donate it".

01:04:08 mircea_popescu: just as long as it's a meaningless act, carefully sterilized, pointless and ineffectual.

01:05:22 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, i'll listen sympathetically to any programmer that can't feed himself ; and i'll be amused at any programmer that "but oprah!". the field's over there, and it takes all comers. don't mind the manure.

01:10:51 mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7p2qfBWlJ1rbog77o1_1280.jpg

01:10:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpmpPr )

01:17:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52850 @ 0.00043114 = 22.7857 BTC [+] {2}

01:20:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50650 @ 0.0004229 = 21.4199 BTC [-]

01:20:54 *: asciilifeform back

01:24:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's summary is essentially correct re: 'software industry'

01:26:08 asciilifeform: but to bring it back to the 'dirty house, cleaners want wheelbarrow of gold, so must stay dirty' - i doubt mircea_popescu is suffering from any software problem that, say, terry davis (deliberately not nominating any of the folks here for this gedankenexperiment) couldn't or wouldn't fix for, say, 50000btc

01:28:15 asciilifeform: and yes, the 'software industry' is so utterly rotten that an individual act of deretardification has to be contemplated on own merits, rather than as 'market action', modellable with the usual rules. sorta like buying a russian nuke. sui generis.

01:32:17 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174939 << the magic of bitcoin is that 100% can go to the fella who is willing to dive in a pressure suit below five kilometres of liquid shit and retrieve grandmother's dishes from the sunken h.m.s. shitanic

01:32:17 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:52:54; mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.

01:32:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97800 @ 0.00043133 = 42.1841 BTC [+]

01:33:50 asciilifeform: but it'd have to be 100% of ฿escape_rocket, yes

01:33:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.0004229 = 5.6034 BTC [-]

01:38:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174921 << i don't single out lawyers from naive 'but mine has mercedes!' observation, but because the lawyers who ~actually reliably magic away problems~ are not dying in debt. or worrying about rent.

01:38:49 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:44:04; mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs

01:39:50 asciilifeform: ditto for surgeons who specialize in the nearly-impossible, etc

01:41:56 BingoBoingo: Lawyers who can reliably contain problems don't const $maxint. The only lawyers who charge $maxint aren't charging for their lawyering, but marketing. Hence Ulbricht hiring the maliciously incompetent Dratel snake.

01:43:00 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: to be fair, we don't know what he paid. perhaps d. agreed to work for considerable discount..

01:44:03 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Dratel from what I understands works until open ended fundraiser is exhausted.

01:44:23 BingoBoingo: Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources

01:44:36 asciilifeform: plus lawyer was quite possibly the wrong tool for the job. ulbricht needed to hire 'blackwater' rather than lawyer.

01:44:57 mircea_popescu: i suffer from such a problem, yes.

01:45:06 mircea_popescu: !s $maxint

01:45:07 assbot: 168 results for '$maxint' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%24maxint

01:45:09 mircea_popescu: according to you, at least.

01:45:19 mircea_popescu: apparently they'd have to bake a whole new silicone process.

01:45:30 *: asciilifeform did not say 'new process' !

01:45:35 asciilifeform: just new standard cells

01:46:04 mircea_popescu: and i wouldn't give 50k to random unknown schmuck without a wot for the obvious reasons, regardless what they can or could do.

01:46:21 asciilifeform: and any undergrad 'ee' student can draw you the muller gate standard cell in cmos.

01:46:37 asciilifeform: after that, it's merely a matter of 'build skyscraper'

01:46:57 mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.

01:47:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the dratel example is particularly on point. what that man did was the equivalent of a bitdaytrade "platform".

01:48:00 asciilifeform: the solution of very expensive problems with no precedent is quite possibly a lemon market, yes.

01:48:21 mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions

01:48:33 mircea_popescu: "this program does nothing" "yes, but it takes some time - like any other program!"

01:49:05 asciilifeform: i see dratel as a pretty obvious case of usg mole

01:49:07 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources << and the fact that kid would sign off on this - pretty disgraceful.

01:49:23 mircea_popescu: but THEY know what they're doing. they are doing exactly tyhis : make the chumps helpless.

01:49:32 mircea_popescu: "what's the point of donating - prolly go straight to a lawyer snake anyway"

01:49:33 mircea_popescu: nice.

01:49:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform me too. the problem is - this was one of the more successful ones.

01:49:57 BingoBoingo: This is why for my still to be litigated misdemeanor charge attorney is still working off of his flat $150 pre-trial fee.

01:51:17 asciilifeform: herr ulbricht didn't have a 'lawyer problem,' he had a military problem. or could a sufficiently expert german lawyer have exonerated, say, the 'july plot' folks who failed to nail the fuhrer

01:51:43 mircea_popescu: you're misrepresenting things.

01:51:47 mircea_popescu: the goal here is not to "Exonerate"

01:51:54 mircea_popescu: the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system.

01:52:23 asciilifeform: leaving aside the fact that poor u. wanted to save own sorry hide, rather than 'damage system,' there is precedent.

01:52:23 mircea_popescu: oleander blosom doesn't run outof your mouth, plant itself back on tree.

01:52:31 asciilifeform: ted kaczynski ('unabomber')

01:52:34 mircea_popescu: oleander blosom sees to it that's the last time YOU're running anywhere.

01:52:37 asciilifeform: read transcript of his trial some time

01:52:48 mircea_popescu: what of it ?

01:52:49 asciilifeform: fella was brilliant, and devoted entire trial to making 'rule of law' look as ridiculous as it is

01:52:54 asciilifeform: 'max damage to system'

01:52:57 asciilifeform: ended with: muzzle.

01:52:58 mircea_popescu: indeed.

01:53:02 asciilifeform: and lifetime supermax

01:53:06 asciilifeform: (ditto with muzzle)

01:53:17 mircea_popescu: also ended with us here.

01:53:22 asciilifeform: and the 'damage' was a tiny scratch on the bumper

01:53:25 asciilifeform: need a microscope to see it.

01:53:26 mircea_popescu: or dja regard the present as unconnected ?

01:53:32 mircea_popescu: i beg to differ, i see it quite plainly.

01:53:36 asciilifeform: not certain how connected

01:53:43 asciilifeform: open to seeing the logic ?

01:53:58 mircea_popescu: i don't think the connections will ever be certain.

01:54:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101400 @ 0.00040995 = 41.5689 BTC [-]

01:54:24 mircea_popescu: but broadly, "if the rule of law didn't suck, or if it did and nobody'd bother showing it - what then ?"

01:55:01 mircea_popescu: anyway. see the married men article. they who wish to be exonrated left,long ago. those who stay ALREADY MADE the choice to max damage.

01:55:21 mircea_popescu: turning back on one';s choices later is not another's problem. i am not held to explain why the guy that changed his mind failed both ways.

01:55:46 asciilifeform: what is this 'left', when the bottle has no outside.

01:55:53 asciilifeform: or is there a colony of 'left' on mars.

01:55:54 mircea_popescu: tough.

01:56:00 mircea_popescu: nobody said you get to make all the choices you might wish to.

01:56:11 mircea_popescu: and yes, it's a choice even if you didn't get to make it.

01:56:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35750 @ 0.00040995 = 14.6557 BTC [-]

01:56:36 asciilifeform: yes, but mircea_popescu mentioned something like 'those who wished, left'

01:56:39 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system. << This. On my misdemeanor charge which it was suggest I settle organizational incompetence on the part of the police and prosecution seems to be scuttling whatever case they may or may not have had. Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel. Alleged "victim" is reportedly now a joke subject to taunts from coworkers wit

01:56:40 BingoBoingo: h any ability he might have had to use "powers of office" effectively castrated.

01:56:45 mircea_popescu: observably some people left.

01:57:04 mircea_popescu: Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel << lmao.

01:58:04 BingoBoingo: Seriously people were like "It's a misdemeanor don't fight it." I'm like "It's a misdemeanor and I'm white. They prolly don't anticipate having to prosecute it"

02:01:51 asciilifeform: back to thread where we http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174986 >> demonstrably false in a sharashka.

02:01:51 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:46:57; mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.

02:02:04 asciilifeform: in sharashka, the very best rocket designer's terms are 'i get to eat'

02:02:14 mircea_popescu: notrly. reread your source material.

02:02:26 mircea_popescu: people naming their own terms were in there - provided, of course, they got to magic away problems.

02:02:37 asciilifeform: well, he gets caviar while the worst gets beans, sure

02:02:41 mircea_popescu: this is strictly different from "jewish princesses imagining themselves special in own mind"

02:02:42 asciilifeform: just like sharashka where i live.

02:02:47 mircea_popescu: no.

02:02:59 mircea_popescu: do i need to quote verse and chapter to you ? because if i do you're eating crow.

02:03:14 asciilifeform: of what? solzhenitsyn?

02:03:18 mircea_popescu: sure.

02:03:26 asciilifeform: let's have actual, vs fictional personages ?

02:03:28 asciilifeform: say, korolev

02:03:30 mircea_popescu: pick one, they all have it, as part of being credible.

02:03:55 asciilifeform: did k 'name own terms' ?

02:04:15 asciilifeform: what if he has asked 'i want to live in manhattan as a free man' as 'terms' ?

02:04:46 asciilifeform: on the contrary, at the peak of his career, he had two goons stationed outside of his apartment door at all times.

02:05:09 asciilifeform: just to make sure that he doesn't - to manhattan (and, at least officially , that manhatten doesn't ~him~)

02:05:13 mircea_popescu: so we're switching "fiction as written by a respected source" to "fiction as alf feels like recounting it for the purpose of current convo" ?

02:05:25 asciilifeform: naturally i wasn't there, saying hello to k. in person

02:05:34 asciilifeform: if this means 'fiction' i should like to know where is reality.

02:06:06 mircea_popescu: in any case i'll score s above a, if you don't mind ?

02:06:15 mircea_popescu: at least he WAS there.

02:06:18 asciilifeform: ;;google хлопнут без некролога

02:06:19 gribble: Sergei Korolev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev; First get your facts straight... - RationalSkepticism.org: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseudoscience/first-get-your-facts-straight-t46146.html; How To Think Critically - RationalSkepticism.org: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-debunking/how-to-think- (1 more message)

02:07:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32547 @ 0.0004182 = 13.6112 BTC [+] {2}

02:07:54 asciilifeform: s. is approx. the same kind of guide to the subject as svetonius and '12 caesars' is to his.

02:07:57 asciilifeform: yes, he was there...

02:08:04 BingoBoingo: Maybe this is the wrong epoch's fiction being contrasted. Maybe 'Uncle Tom' and 'Gus' the christmas ornament would cover a larger range of outcomes.

02:08:55 mircea_popescu: well then we can't really say much can we.

02:09:25 asciilifeform: http://maxpark.com/community/4375/content/1932238 << primary sources

02:09:27 assbot: Арестованный №1442, он же — великий конструктор | АНТИСОВЕТСКАЯ ЛИГА ... ( http://bit.ly/1eIdf4t )

02:09:28 asciilifeform: incl. letter of k. to beria

02:09:31 asciilifeform: re his treatment

02:09:39 BingoBoingo: Gus the Christmas ornament of course being one of the antagonists in the original blockbuster film

02:10:36 mircea_popescu: i dunno that primary sources escape the suetonius objhection.

02:10:40 mircea_popescu: after all, he wrote with a purpose.

02:10:44 BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american

02:10:52 asciilifeform: incidentally k. did 'win from not signing the papers,' in a way. after recanting his confession (given under torture, which mutilated him in ways which ultimately led to his death) his death sentence was commuted to life-at-hard-labour

02:10:59 asciilifeform: (from which was eventually promoted to sharashka)

02:17:43 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174805 < lol software is the only game that pays

02:17:43 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:07:18; mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.

02:18:08 mircea_popescu: yes, pays. like all knowledge. let him steal.

02:19:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27750 @ 0.0004248 = 11.7882 BTC [+]

02:20:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly enough, five minutes ago :

02:20:05 mircea_popescu: <waylow> I'm on mac so I couldn't figure out how to install the game

02:20:05 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> oh macs. yeah that's been a pain. a binary for it is still being worked on, but it's slow going. if you have an ubuntu anywhere, from what i hear it's pretty smooth. also windows binaries work.

02:20:05 mircea_popescu: <waylow> I do - but it's been a while since I've run linux. no windows for me

02:20:16 mircea_popescu: teh exact customer you were talking about.

02:21:59 decimation: in theory bsd and mac should be similar

02:22:04 decimation: the problem is all the graphics shit

02:22:45 mircea_popescu: "all girls are similar until they strip"

02:23:31 decimation: heh

02:23:47 decimation: in theory you could make an X11 version if it already works on X

02:23:53 decimation: but performance would be shit

02:25:48 BingoBoingo: It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died

02:26:11 BingoBoingo: <decimation> in theory bsd and mac should be similar << BSD isn't all that similar to other BSD

02:26:50 BingoBoingo: They even all have their own libc

02:26:52 mircea_popescu: the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes.

02:27:04 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174989 < https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator

02:27:04 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 01:48:21; mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions

02:27:05 assbot: xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcNaoV )

02:27:05 mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.

02:27:46 decimation: not quite goto but similar idea

02:29:26 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes. << Sure. The biggest difference was Amiga paid more for parts on each box so they could get the niche live video production market. All the assholes, reamed on their chosen niches

02:30:55 mircea_popescu: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?368748-New-Blender-Foundation-Transparency-Blog&p=2892923&viewfull=1#post2892923 << le lulz.

02:30:57 assbot: New Blender Foundation Transparency Blog - Page 16 ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcNKCV )

02:31:21 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175076 < actually whitey moved the black folk into the cities - to push out 'white ethnic' voting blocks

02:31:21 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:10:44; BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american

02:31:21 mircea_popescu: we find the following things suspicious : romania, paywalls, and bitcoin.

02:33:04 BingoBoingo: decimation: Your problem is you assume a monolithic whitey

02:33:28 mircea_popescu: everyone else does, why single him out for it.

02:33:39 mircea_popescu: whites are like the jews, amirite ?

02:33:47 decimation: no, I don't

02:33:54 BingoBoingo: Because goddammit muh culture is bein oppressed

02:34:13 decimation: generally 'whitey' in this case are old-fashioned anglican wasps

02:35:00 BingoBoingo: decimation: Only when sane pale folk say whitey. When SJW's and the lower class blacks say whitey they mean poor whites.

02:35:15 BingoBoingo: Mostly poor rural whites, southern optional.

02:36:02 decimation: and those poor whites were largely the targets of black immigration to cities

02:36:22 decimation: having a large block of voting catholic irish - had to be crushed

02:36:28 BingoBoingo: Liberal palefolk assume whitey mean Bushes, Clintons, and Rothschilds. Radical whites and non-graduating blacks assume whitey is trailer trash.

02:36:43 trinque: BingoBoingo | It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died << heard "microkernel wank" a couple times round here, but I was a huge BeOS fan back in the day

02:37:02 trinque: ultra-stable, high performance, was miles ahead of the game re: graphics in its time

02:37:16 BingoBoingo: trinque: BeBox was the next gen victim of Mac survival

02:37:19 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175101 << there was! but it is a mistake to lump in amiga. cbm was still under delusion that it sold ~computers~ rather than 'system' (that is, complete slave planet like apple, where peripheral makers pay danegeld, etc)

02:37:19 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 02:27:05; mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.

02:37:24 trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah

02:37:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.0004248 = 22.7693 BTC [+]

02:38:02 asciilifeform: cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis

02:38:05 BingoBoingo: In Motorola era Amiga crushed. In PPC era BeBox crushed

02:39:02 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis << You mean apple provided a target for the drill

02:39:06 asciilifeform: (there were really four outfits under name 'apple' - the folks who sold apple ii series; the folks who sold 'mac' until '99; rebranded 'next corp.' under herr jobs; the present-day zombie.)

02:39:52 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: point was not that it was difficult to drill. aftermarket 'keys' appeared almost immediately. point was the symbolic meaning of this abomination

02:39:53 decimation: note that 'next' is basically modern osx

02:39:57 decimation: on top of bsd

02:40:04 asciilifeform: decimation: pre-'next' apple is as gone as cbm

02:40:10 decimation: yeah

02:40:13 asciilifeform: there is literally no trace of it remaining.

02:40:16 BingoBoingo: decimation: But on top of msot weirdo bsd

02:40:17 asciilifeform: in any of the products sold by that firm

02:40:23 decimation: c64 was probably better in its day anyway

02:40:56 mircea_popescu: than amiga ? definitely.

02:41:01 asciilifeform: c64 was unthinkably good for its day.

02:41:04 mircea_popescu: amiga sucked about as much as apple.

02:41:15 asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu ever see an amiga alive ?

02:41:24 mircea_popescu: they stand in my mind because when i first heard of apple i thought "hey... this is like... amiga ?"

02:41:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. friend had one.

02:41:48 asciilifeform: compare in the flower of their youth, rather than, say, '93 when cbm was a vegetable

02:41:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39982 @ 0.0004248 = 16.9844 BTC [+]

02:42:03 asciilifeform: ferphuxxsake amiga had what we'd call a gpu today

02:42:09 asciilifeform: when apple sold b&w thing

02:42:11 mircea_popescu: no, im comparing the amiga i knew (early 90s) to the apple i saw (late 90s onwards)

02:42:22 asciilifeform: and it was ~documented~

02:42:22 mircea_popescu: and while i agree with you re the distinction, i believe it's without a difference.

02:42:27 BingoBoingo: Apple II's apple's swan song the IIGS was a great machine

02:42:37 asciilifeform: the difference is that cbm did not sell a cult, it sold machinery

02:42:37 mircea_popescu: apple managed to somehow remain THE SAME assholes in spite of changing everything around jobs

02:42:39 *: punkman vaguely recalls some amazing Amiga games

02:42:39 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

02:42:58 decimation: asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall

02:43:19 asciilifeform: afaik cbm did not ever attempt to extort tribute from peripheral makers, or software devs

02:43:28 asciilifeform: nor tied user's hands in any particular way

02:43:30 BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall << c64 was easily cheaply stamped product, Amiga was not

02:43:33 asciilifeform: it just sold boxes.

02:43:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno how documented it was, not caring for such thing at that age. i know however that the amiga guy never made anything like a game.

02:43:42 mircea_popescu: we did, they sucked, how it goes.

02:43:49 asciilifeform: i'm ~still~ playing amiga games now

02:43:55 asciilifeform: (at least was, a few yrs ago, on emul.)

02:44:24 asciilifeform: quite comparable to mid-90s msdos, in terms of pure technical 'effect'

02:44:25 mircea_popescu: eh, shitty early playstation. fuck it.

02:44:56 *: BingoBoingo has never found a working Apple IIGS at an acceptable price. Played with one for a bit Phree then...

02:44:57 asciilifeform: again, it was a computer, sold as a computer, with 'anyone can write for this' and proper docs

02:45:06 asciilifeform: how this can be compared to 'playstation' i cannot fathom

02:45:53 decimation: http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claimed that 'basic' was the real selling point of the c64

02:45:54 assbot: An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcPP1U )

02:45:57 decimation: he was probably right about that

02:46:07 asciilifeform: the death of cbm is a pretty well-documented subject, and revolved around their one and only unforgivable sin - royally pissing off their c64 install base by breaking compatibility

02:46:40 asciilifeform: eventually they diverted revenue into making items like 'c128' but it was too late.

02:46:45 asciilifeform: !s jack tramiel

02:46:45 assbot: 5 results for 'jack tramiel' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jack+tramiel

02:46:51 asciilifeform: ^ iirc we had a cbm thread here

02:47:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well ? THAT is how.

02:47:24 BingoBoingo: decimation: And warm climate agricultual labor was the selling point of involuntary immigration of Africans, but only because Mestizos were too expensive at the time.

02:47:57 decimation: yeah the other problem was jack tramiel left

02:48:09 decimation: because the commodore board was full of retards apparently

02:48:52 mircea_popescu: in other news : apparently blender has this official "marketplace" thing, which lists various assets for sale. so I go for a 16 bucks buy, on the theory that let's check it out. coinbase, of course. my payment is uncredited. they have a support email for just this case, i write to them... my email is rejected.

02:49:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43244 @ 0.00042203 = 18.2503 BTC [-] {2}

02:49:07 mircea_popescu: apparently I'm the shady one for not using paypal and being romanian.

02:49:18 mircea_popescu: running off with payments and then blocking emails is a perfectly legit strategy.

02:49:26 mircea_popescu: im entirely certain they actually THINK THIS, too.

02:49:37 mircea_popescu: "weird bad, stupid good! for weird is weird and stupid smells like the home stable!11"

02:49:57 decimation: ^ note that thier perception of what is 'weird' is purely what usg smiles upon

02:50:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: email rejected ?

02:50:43 asciilifeform: as in bounce ?

02:50:44 trinque: it occurs to me that the fraud dept of paypal may look very much like some soviet bureau's office did

02:51:10 trinque: but we're free! because anyone can have their own dismal bureaucracy

02:51:41 trinque: they probably have a script they go by which includes something like "third world" on it

02:51:59 mircea_popescu: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<support@cgcookiemarkets.com>:

02:52:01 mircea_popescu: 554 5.7.1 ACL dns_rbl; Client host [] blocked using

02:52:03 mircea_popescu: sa-ip4tset.blagr.emailsrvr.com= Cloudmark CSI. Please visit

02:52:05 mircea_popescu: http://csi.cloudmark.com/reset-request for more information on why this message

02:52:07 assbot: CSI IP Reputation Remediation Portal ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcQMqX )

02:52:07 mircea_popescu: could not be delivered

02:52:08 mircea_popescu: the odds of me "visiting" some random agent in the "danegeld to email" scamring ? zilch.

02:52:10 mircea_popescu: interesting how the twerps keep changing name, too. i don't seem to recall this particular extortionist.

02:52:21 decimation: "The disagreement between Tramiel and Gould was so bitter that, after Tramiel's departure, the Commodore magazine was forbidden to state any of Tramiel's famous sayings or even mention his name."

02:52:27 asciilifeform: jwz!

02:52:45 asciilifeform: (y'know, the fella who said 'why aren'tcha using gmail, terrorist')

02:53:19 mircea_popescu: well not exactly. he was more into the "why should i punish google for google fucking up my email ?!?!?! i just want email to work!!11"

02:53:21 asciilifeform: phun phakt: tramiel sat in auschwitz.

02:53:40 decimation: !s damnatio memoriae

02:53:41 assbot: 7 results for 'damnatio memoriae' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=damnatio+memoriae

02:54:08 decimation: asciilifeform: not auschwitz, Ahlem according to la wik

02:54:39 decimation: ah no he started in auschwitz

02:54:50 mircea_popescu: meanwhile irl, Checking against 95 known blacklists... Listed 0 times with 0 timeouts

02:54:56 decimation: "Like many other inmates, his father was reported to have died of typhus in the work camp; however, Tramiel believed he was killed by an injection of gasoline. " nasty

02:54:57 mircea_popescu: the world totally needs 95 of these things.

02:55:20 asciilifeform: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/12/local/la-me-jack-tramiel-20120412 << tramiel didn't give a rat's arse re: computing 'big picture.' he was running a manufacturing concern, in the old 19th. sense in his mind, complete with 'muntzing'

02:55:22 assbot: Jack Tramiel obituary: Founder of Commodore computers dies at 83 - latimes ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcReWb )

02:55:31 punkman: did the qntra spam affect the other domains too?

02:55:39 decimation: asciilifeform: the electronics industry is still largely in that mode

02:55:55 mircea_popescu: punkman http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx << not really.

02:55:56 assbot: Network Tools: DNS,IP,Email ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcRhBh )

02:55:59 asciilifeform: decimation: if only. the 'intellectual property!!!111!!!!!' cancer has eaten most of it

02:56:10 asciilifeform: go and try getting full docs for anything larger than a full adder.

02:56:17 decimation: heh yeah

02:56:47 decimation: what I mean is that intel, for instance, just puts all their chips on the 'let's shrink dies' side

02:56:57 decimation: no one is re-thinking big picture

02:57:07 decimation: not that we would know it anyway, because of the nda problem

02:57:10 asciilifeform: actually the thing they put 'all their chips' is collaboration with microshit and the entire criminal pyramid

02:57:18 asciilifeform: the 'shrink dies' thing is pure sideshow.

02:57:36 decimation: it yields a few percent per year

02:57:56 asciilifeform: it is done ~solely~ so that microshit gets to release winblows $year

02:58:04 asciilifeform: with 20% more empty loops

02:58:12 asciilifeform: and 'indian' code

02:58:24 decimation: note that microsoft has dropped price of windows to $0

02:58:35 decimation: even though it's really worth negative

02:58:37 asciilifeform: eventually will have to pay folks to touch it

02:58:54 mircea_popescu: and they will.

02:58:59 mircea_popescu: perfect way for the living wage introduction.

02:59:03 decimation: the only thing I use winblows for is to record tv shows, because they give free listing service

02:59:09 mircea_popescu: "pay people to use windows, to better technologee"

02:59:14 decimation: this was dropped in new windwos

02:59:16 mircea_popescu: exact equivalent of mcdonalds

02:59:22 mircea_popescu: which is the eventual fate of all government agencies.

02:59:29 mircea_popescu: fed to pleb fake money conveyor.

02:59:33 asciilifeform: this is already happening. but, as william gibson wrote, 'the future is here, but not evenly distributed.'

02:59:40 mircea_popescu: right

02:59:49 asciilifeform: i have winblows box. solely to run malware. which is one of the things i am paid for.

02:59:54 decimation: heh

02:59:59 asciilifeform: so in effect i am 'paid to touch it'

03:00:06 mircea_popescu: and you will be telling me about how hard it is to escape, right, because moving off windows will require "someone to provide the lost income"

03:00:10 decimation: asciilifeform: you almost need real metal box, because of all the vm detection

03:00:10 mircea_popescu: and i will just nod and carry on.

03:00:18 asciilifeform: decimation: aha

03:00:30 asciilifeform: decimation: of course they are specially designated physical boxes.

03:00:53 asciilifeform: decimation: i actually work for a firm which builds computers solely for this purpose

03:01:05 asciilifeform: believe or not.

03:01:11 decimation: ideally someone would make one with a button to freeze and dump all registers

03:01:15 asciilifeform: and guess what.

03:01:19 mircea_popescu: this must exist.

03:01:22 asciilifeform: it does.

03:01:25 asciilifeform: i built it.

03:01:30 mircea_popescu: haha cool.

03:01:32 decimation: I believe it, you could make lots of headway against malware if you can control its hardware environment

03:01:48 mats: would love to read that secret sauce

03:01:55 asciilifeform: decimation: thing is, we discovered that not many folks are really eager to 'make headway against malware'

03:02:00 asciilifeform: they just want to collect the bezzle

03:02:03 mats: have dreamed of a usable reversible debugger for many moons

03:02:18 mircea_popescu: curious if mats gets hired now.

03:02:18 decimation: sure, why bother actually finding malware when people will pay you to pretend

03:02:27 asciilifeform: not many ~want~ to find

03:02:38 asciilifeform: because when you ~find~ strange, now you have to properly reverse it, document...

03:02:45 asciilifeform: and then it turns out to be usg-authored, and then what

03:02:48 asciilifeform: (who pays?)

03:02:51 decimation: heh

03:03:09 decimation: you could sell to another arm of usg

03:03:21 asciilifeform: so far, they ain't buying.

03:03:24 mircea_popescu: o yeah. definitely already here but not evenly distributed.

03:03:29 mircea_popescu: usg on usg love.

03:03:40 asciilifeform: for same reason, e.g., microshit isn't

03:04:03 decimation: asciilifeform: a large reason why this problem exists is becuase you can't sue microsoft for damaging your shit

03:04:08 asciilifeform: decimation: naturally

03:04:12 mircea_popescu: o yea.

03:04:13 asciilifeform: decimation: but only proximately.

03:04:24 mats: externalizing costs is how software engineers have jobs

03:04:28 asciilifeform: yes, they exempted software 'industry' from ~all~ consumer liability laws in '80s.

03:04:40 asciilifeform: but if only this. since then, an entire class of vermin sprang up

03:04:47 asciilifeform: who pretend to 'write software'

03:04:48 mats: much unlike a civil engineer responsible for faulty bridgeworks...

03:04:50 decimation: and now the 'rats run the ship'

03:05:11 asciilifeform: the notion that any kind of animal is even possible other than rat, is held to be a lunatic fringe thing

03:05:28 decimation: even simple programmers know what it would take to write bug-free code

03:05:47 decimation: about 100x less 'production' and 100x more 'thinking'

03:06:42 decimation: in fact, to even seriously consider writing software for which you are liable is to instantly consider dumping the existing c-machine

03:07:14 mats: while i'm on the subject here is there useful reversible debugging you're aware of, asciilifeform?

03:07:20 mats: gdb can kinda do it, but its slow and buggy.

03:07:22 asciilifeform: decimation: the folks who have 'must work' as hard requirement still prefer the whole 'spend ten years with magnifying glass' to 'rethink computing'

03:07:28 mats: rr is neat but limited... reversedb is limited to linux.

03:07:35 mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/572468782057013248/WtdCdJXG_400x400.jpeg << /me notices how this guy is always in this quad double-dating sort of situation, but apparently always with a different gal.

03:07:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcT5tU )

03:07:38 mats: vmware got rid of record/replay after vmware 7

03:07:38 mircea_popescu: swingin' london.

03:07:42 asciilifeform: mats: what, precisely, do you need reverse-gear for ?

03:08:04 asciilifeform: mats: what's wrong with rewinding by running proggy again

03:08:07 mircea_popescu: mats gdb is what eulora uses if that makes you feel any better.

03:08:11 asciilifeform: to whatever breakpoint

03:08:19 mats: slow

03:08:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gdb is what the entire free world uses

03:08:31 asciilifeform: at least in one form or another

03:08:35 decimation: asciilifeform: my own experience is that it's way more difficult to paper over shitty hardware in software than to make reliable hardware

03:08:39 mats: i want to easily see the values of all registers (as noted before) including bit flags, fp registers, ...

03:08:50 asciilifeform: mats: my favourite graphical skin on gdb is... ida.

03:08:53 asciilifeform: yes, ida.

03:08:57 mats: figures

03:08:59 mircea_popescu: ha

03:09:08 decimation: mats: you could probably do this with valgrind too

03:09:08 asciilifeform: it speaks 100% compliant gdb wire protocol

03:09:16 asciilifeform: decimation: valgrind is not a debugger

03:09:44 decimation: yeah but it does emulate x86, I gotta think someone has integrated debug

03:09:53 asciilifeform: mno. doesn't emulate anything

03:09:59 asciilifeform: must be confusing it with somethig else?

03:10:17 asciilifeform: mats: ida is a total monopoly on the kind of thing that it is, bar none. i don't know of any other product category anywhere in modern industry where there is ~ONE~ thing

03:10:22 asciilifeform: possibly 'mpex'

03:10:26 asciilifeform: that's pretty much it.

03:10:28 asciilifeform: the two of them.

03:10:36 decimation: ah yeah http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/manual-core-adv.html#manual-core-adv.gdbserver

03:10:37 assbot: Valgrind ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jk8H14 )

03:10:49 mats: asciilifeform: i don't have anything specific in mind. have been developing my talents in exploitation but i'm kind of stuck as to how to move forward

03:11:03 decimation: but anway if you want to reverse software you need ida

03:11:06 asciilifeform: decimation: whatddayaknow, there is emulator.

03:11:07 asciilifeform: neato

03:11:11 mats: asciilifeform: i should probably sign up to be jr malware analyst or some such thing.

03:11:27 asciilifeform: mats: if you have the stomach !

03:11:29 decimation: mats: i think there's a free version of ida for download

03:11:33 decimation: ancient

03:11:45 mats: i'm from the internets, why settle for free

03:11:56 decimation: well, I'm also sure there's warez too

03:11:57 mats: plenty of working license files floating

03:12:13 mats: or however that works.

03:12:33 asciilifeform: reasonably recent ida (having, e.g., 'hexray' plugin, more or less mandatory, and support for weird cpus, etc) is notoriously scarce on warez

03:12:47 asciilifeform: why? story is: irfan guilfanov builds custom copy for each buyer.

03:13:09 asciilifeform: who 'leaks' - is damned publicly and never dealt with again, has to buy support via shills

03:13:14 decimation: heh

03:13:34 asciilifeform: ilfak guilfanov.

03:13:42 mircea_popescu: if only the guy could join teh wot.

03:13:46 asciilifeform: ask'im

03:13:51 asciilifeform: but iirc he sold the firm years ago

03:13:52 mircea_popescu: i dun know 'im

03:13:55 asciilifeform: now sits in belgium, angry

03:13:56 decimation: this sounds like the best mechanism for trying to enforce 'copyright' I've heard of

03:14:24 mats: its pretty easy to say 'well i got hacked plz gief another one'

03:14:35 decimation: asciilifeform: I bet you could control valgrind gdb with ida

03:14:42 mircea_popescu: mats same could be said re btc.

03:14:43 decimation: set breakpoints on mem leaks, etc

03:14:44 asciilifeform: the folks who own it now are profoundly aware of their position. you pretty much have to beg repeatedly to so much as be given an address to which to mail the cheque

03:14:45 asciilifeform: to buy a copy

03:15:11 asciilifeform: mats: 'got hacked' gets same treatment as 'leaked deliberately'

03:15:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe wot is the pill to no longer be angry.

03:15:17 asciilifeform: maybe

03:15:27 *: asciilifeform doesn't know the chap personally, can't help find him

03:15:39 *: mircea_popescu waves in the general direction of the ethers

03:15:44 decimation: asciilifeform: once you add a few more zeros to your bank account, probably can't be bothered with a few extra $k

03:15:49 asciilifeform: incidentally, 'ida' is a beast quite like 'bitcoind'

03:15:55 mircea_popescu: so i hear.

03:15:56 asciilifeform: terrible, monumentally stinking cpp turd

03:16:03 asciilifeform: to which there is no realistic alternative

03:16:06 mircea_popescu: /you are not expected to understand this

03:16:44 asciilifeform: decimation: understand, every 'legit' corp. on the planet which employs reverse-engineers, incl. the arms of usg, buys ida.

03:16:46 mats: most of the serious dudes i know have non-attributed ida licenses

03:16:53 asciilifeform: sure.

03:17:03 mats: which can be easily done by setting up a shell corp, or just lie.

03:17:03 asciilifeform: didn't say they buy one for each man!

03:17:23 decimation: why bother with attribution?

03:17:52 asciilifeform: thing is, it's attributed whether it displays your name or not

03:18:12 decimation: yeah, unless you are sending envelope of cash, he has your checking account

03:18:13 asciilifeform: vendor knows for whom the build (with particular order of static linked internals, etc) was built

03:18:42 asciilifeform: to really deal with this, would have to obtain a number of builds, and unravel the scheme

03:18:50 asciilifeform: afaik no one has ever bothered (why?)

03:19:02 decimation: because it would be like paying for the sun

03:20:37 asciilifeform: phun phakt: ~explotable~ crashes have been discovered in (some versions of) ida.

03:20:50 asciilifeform: *exploitable

03:21:09 decimation: as in, malicious?

03:21:19 decimation: or as in, can be exploited if reversing the wrong warez?

03:21:30 asciilifeform: as in arbitrary code exec as result of crafted sample

03:21:34 decimation: heh

03:22:09 asciilifeform: this did not annoy folks as much as it should have because until recently (linux ver. is new) everyone ran it on a designated turdbox with the other wincrap

03:22:10 decimation: asciilifeform: if you had a winblows computer for malware, it would also be useful to hit another button and display a complete diff between running state and 'known good' state

03:22:25 asciilifeform: ...and guess what..

03:23:35 decimation: and a third button that reverts machine to known state

03:23:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9958 @ 0.00041107 = 4.0934 BTC [-]

03:23:41 asciilifeform: and guess what.

03:23:48 decimation: already implemented?

03:23:52 asciilifeform: aha

03:24:25 decimation: on a vaguely related note, I found an amusing show on 'the weather channel' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1gZSNdkajY

03:24:26 assbot: Prospectors | S01E01 | Breaking the Dry Spell - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcVGEr )

03:24:35 asciilifeform: a bit oversimplified description, but yes, we make this.

03:24:39 decimation: apparently there are people who spend their time trying to find minerals on federal land

03:25:03 asciilifeform: l0l what do they get? tax break ?

03:25:05 decimation: but since nobody is printing crystals, etc they can make $$

03:25:40 decimation: asciilifeform: no mainly through nobody's doing, apparently it is still legal in the us to 'claim' federal land for mining

03:25:57 decimation: land open to this is mainly west of the mississippi

03:25:57 asciilifeform: wait till somebody finds something worth stealing

03:26:02 asciilifeform: then - poof.

03:26:09 decimation: yeah that's a whole episode

03:26:18 decimation: trying to get usg to care about your 'property rights'

03:26:19 asciilifeform: see and i didn't even need to watch it

03:27:36 decimation: in fact, it seems to me that claiming the land is counterproductive, just because it shows 'where to dig'

03:27:51 decimation: although it keeps the big obvious infringers off 'your' land

03:28:30 asciilifeform: why would i care ~which~ thief steals everything from me ?

03:28:45 asciilifeform: what difference if usg, or chinese emperor

03:28:58 decimation: asciilifeform: depends if thief is using hand ax or 300 ton earthmover

03:30:18 decimation: I saw a real-life gold mine the other day, saw a truck carrying 300 tons of rock

03:30:26 decimation: was about 20 ft wide and 40 ft tall

03:30:36 decimation: like house moving down the road

03:30:48 asciilifeform: back to the debug thing (because imho it is very educational) - it is very difficult to sell something which actually solves a problem, on account of the whole meatwot thing

03:31:00 asciilifeform: it is just like the 'programmers' thread from hour ago

03:31:22 asciilifeform: you get to an 'uncanny valley' effect where the better the thing works, the worse off you are, because 'not believable'

03:31:37 decimation: that and everyone copies

03:31:39 asciilifeform: and it can even come to where you have to lie, understate capability of product, even

03:31:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00041107 = 11.5922 BTC [-]

03:32:18 asciilifeform: and copies. so you're stuck where you end up selling time on the machine, in somewhat circumscribed use cases

03:32:55 asciilifeform: because if you actually sell the thing full-bore, you are now 'asking money for the sun'

03:33:03 decimation: the apple model is to try to convert your software into hardware

03:33:16 asciilifeform: the apple model works if you're usg

03:33:29 asciilifeform: and have crown franchise to do the whole schmuck-herding thing

03:33:37 asciilifeform: where your idiocies have the force of law

03:34:14 decimation: asciilifeform: kinda related are the eda tools for designing chips

03:34:22 asciilifeform: 100% usg-controlled

03:34:26 asciilifeform: afaik.

03:34:54 decimation: well, they are also useless if you don't have $1mil to get 'note from stalin' to make chips

03:35:14 decimation: and that's for one iteration

03:35:20 asciilifeform: typically takes a dozen or more.

03:35:26 asciilifeform: (iterations)

03:35:44 asciilifeform: at least, once did

03:35:47 decimation: asciilifeform: you might find this guy mildly interesting http://www.theamphour.com/254-an-interview-with-andreas-olofsson-adatevas-ampliative-abacus/

03:35:49 assbot: An Interview with Andreas Olofsson - Adateva's Ampliative Abacus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkakvz )

03:35:53 decimation: he describes this process

03:36:12 decimation: tried to sell 'new processor' idea on kickstarter, ended up hating kickstarter

03:36:30 asciilifeform: afaik those folks are arm licensees

03:36:35 asciilifeform: ergo, did not design 'new processor'

03:36:41 asciilifeform: but just 'riff on old tune'

03:36:49 decimation: asciilifeform: no, they use arm for board i/o control

03:36:56 asciilifeform: hm.

03:37:00 decimation: but they have their own silicon to perform dsp 'MAC' operation

03:37:26 decimation: the guy was a dsp designer and became disillusioned by all the shit that was stuffed into dsp chip

03:38:06 asciilifeform: wake me up when somebody bakes a turing-complete gadget with no winblows used ANYWHERE in the brain-to-silicon road

03:38:31 asciilifeform: (other than chuck moore. who did this, yes. but he is old, and not sure if his thing is even still made)

03:38:35 decimation: apparently it uses opencl program

03:38:47 asciilifeform: then turd firmly cemented in.

03:38:48 decimation: I think chuck moore's 'colorforth' runs on windows

03:38:53 asciilifeform: it runs on whatever

03:38:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119292 @ 0.00040964 = 48.8668 BTC [-] {3}

03:38:56 asciilifeform: incl. bare z80

03:38:59 asciilifeform: iirc

03:39:12 asciilifeform: point is, he 'licenses' nothing.

03:39:15 decimation: I tried to use it once, confusing as hell and also barely documented

03:39:16 asciilifeform: 100% own-code

03:39:23 asciilifeform: right, why document when you know all of it

03:39:26 asciilifeform: because 1 user.

03:39:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42850 @ 0.00041054 = 17.5916 BTC [+]

03:39:58 decimation: yeah the same podcast interviewed vic antonic fellow, who was serb who made his own 8-bit computer back in the 80's

03:40:02 asciilifeform: i have no idea what funds 'greenarrays'

03:40:11 asciilifeform: perhaps it's his personal coin from sofa cushions.

03:40:20 asciilifeform: the silicon equivalent of 'vanity press authors'

03:40:20 decimation: he said that he felt when writing anything higher-level than assembly, he feels like the code 'isn't his own'

03:40:26 asciilifeform: and he's right.

03:40:55 decimation: asciilifeform: the greenarrays site seems to imply they are in production

03:41:05 decimation: who knows how long they will last before they dry up and blow away

03:41:08 asciilifeform: who buys, last i saw, was a mystery

03:41:29 asciilifeform: perhaps mircea_popescu, to run his bitcoind-in-forth

03:41:38 asciilifeform: perhaps some other mircea_popescu

03:41:46 asciilifeform: ('not shakespeare, but man by the same name')

03:41:49 decimation: probably some arm of usg

03:42:02 asciilifeform: if usg, probably just buying it to sink in the ocean

03:42:19 decimation: nah, probably because someone who knew what they were doing made it work

03:42:23 decimation: now usg is stuck forever

03:42:28 asciilifeform: like symbolics lispm.

03:42:32 decimation: precisely

03:42:52 asciilifeform: (there's one lab at ft. something-or-other that has ~eternal~ support contract with symbolics co.)

03:43:02 decimation: usg 'collects' technology in exactly this way

03:43:03 asciilifeform: this is public.

03:43:37 decimation: mainly through its defense-contract departments like lockheed, etc

03:44:17 trinque: asciilifeform: it just clicked into place that these computers are precisely those field radios, as you pointed out.

03:44:26 asciilifeform: i'd be surprised if archaeologists ever turn up a 'greenarrays' in usg gear

03:44:31 asciilifeform: but stranger things have happened

03:44:56 decimation: asciilifeform: the parallella guy was complaining that fpgas have 'eaten' the dsp market

03:45:15 asciilifeform: of course. whole point of dsp was for 'annoyingly custom' problems

03:45:35 decimation: and he did confirm that it costs about $1m to do a chip rev, if you go through the fab's preferred 'agents'

03:46:09 decimation: apparently his eda tools were a special 'deal' for startups, with the understanding that he pays later

03:46:21 asciilifeform: the other things, that $m is pure sunk cost if what you get in the post is a dud that doesn't even power

03:46:26 asciilifeform: which is not unheard of

03:46:33 decimation: yep, he did 4 revs

03:46:39 decimation: tried to simulate on fpga as best as he could

03:46:55 decimation: apparently they make massive 64-way fgpa boards to simulate a full chip

03:47:00 asciilifeform: more.

03:47:05 asciilifeform: up to 'refrigerator' size

03:47:07 decimation: which cost ~$100k themselves

03:47:12 decimation: or more

03:47:12 asciilifeform: 100k is 'cheap'

03:47:17 asciilifeform: multi-$m is normal

03:47:20 asciilifeform: plus 'support'

03:47:32 asciilifeform: not really sold in the usual sense. more of a lease, like the old ibm mainframes

03:47:34 decimation: and note that doesn't help you completely with silicon, as you have pointed out before

03:48:28 asciilifeform: and god help you if your thing has to interact with components that you can't simulate (because you didn't design them, and what, other vendor is going to share its logic? dream)

03:49:15 decimation: plus third party 'ip cores'

03:49:18 asciilifeform: aha

03:49:28 asciilifeform: the whole 'chip business' is in many ways ~inherently usgizing~

03:49:51 asciilifeform: because there is no way to effectively amortize the astronomical costs without running a scam of one kind or another.

03:50:07 asciilifeform: ideally - a scam directly on the folks who print money

03:50:16 decimation: yeah he said that his business is very difficult because any kind of processing that he could do with his chip - can be done with a specialized asic

03:50:41 asciilifeform: why would folks who print money buy a device for saving a little money ?

03:50:44 asciilifeform: the basic dilemma here

03:50:51 decimation: so for any kind of an open standard - it is impossible for 'generic' solution to beat specialized asic

03:51:09 decimation: thus, closed-turd asic eats everything

03:51:15 asciilifeform: only thing it can beat it on is cost, and the folks who give a fuck re: cost can't afford ~it~ either.

03:52:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48017 @ 0.00040741 = 19.5626 BTC [-] {2}

03:52:23 decimation: it's the hardware equivilant for the software phenomenon - first turd to market wins

03:53:48 decimation: hardware in general makes so little money it's a wonder anyone even bothers

03:54:05 asciilifeform: because it is necessary to enable other rackets

03:54:15 asciilifeform: 'wintel' gets to exist for strictly, strictly that

03:54:22 decimation: yeah, good point

03:54:41 decimation: it becomes a vanity project for those who can print money

03:54:49 decimation: which is pretty much silicon valley

03:55:27 asciilifeform: this is why i believe that the discovery of integrated circuit was a serious 'degutenbergization' from which we have not even begun to recover.

03:55:54 decimation: yeah and the 'die shrink' has only made things worse

03:56:31 asciilifeform: ic put the mega-org (in practice, arm of the state) in the driver's seat in much the same way as nukes once did (if you ask mircea_popescu) or still do

03:57:19 asciilifeform: even ~neglecting die shrink~

03:57:39 asciilifeform: no one makes 'intel 4004' in their kitchen any more than he can make 'pentium'

03:57:49 decimation: yeah, it is a real problem for society when you literally need 10's to 100's of $bil to even try to 'make new ideas'

03:58:15 decimation: so everyone derps in playground that can be had for $1k

03:58:47 asciilifeform: in practice, it means that, e.g., cpu world is as conservative as ancient egypt

03:59:04 asciilifeform: where archs that would look entirely familiar to folks in 1960s are still considered 'state of the art'

03:59:12 asciilifeform: because literally no one can afford to take a risk

03:59:56 decimation: asciilifeform: nearly all the 'evolution' in modern cpus can be considered to be reincarnating things ibm did in the 60's

04:00:01 asciilifeform: esp. given as in '80s, 'plenty of folks risked, they all died'

04:00:14 asciilifeform: yes, because they did not invent monetize-consumer-chumps as the mega-weapon

04:01:06 decimation: asciilifeform: there's a similar effect in the space industry now adays

04:01:34 decimation: http://spacenews.com/viasats-dankberg-unfazed-by-mega-constellation-hoopla/ < ViaSat Chief Executive Mark D. Dankberg said in a conference call with investors. ?There?s a question of whether making hundreds or thousands of satellites is a feature or a bug.?

04:01:35 assbot: ViaSat’s Dankberg Unfazed by Mega-Constellation Hoopla ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkc5c7 )

04:02:00 asciilifeform: decimation: the sat folks are attempting a kind of chumpatron where 'let's build tiny sats that last 6 months'

04:02:19 decimation: oneweb is trying to make mega-constellation of leo sats for 'free internets fer all!'

04:02:28 asciilifeform: how this wins, other than by scamming usg, is unclear to me

04:02:33 decimation: viasat guy is pointing out that everyone who has tried - failed

04:02:51 asciilifeform: the actual economics of launches (and the basic tech) haven't changed in decades

04:03:02 decimation: http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/story/qualcomm-teams-branson-oneweb-satellite-venture-spacex-ceo-pursues-rival-co/2015-01-18 < no oneweb is scaming Branson

04:03:03 assbot: Qualcomm teams with Branson on OneWeb satellite venture as SpaceX CEO pursues rival constellation - FierceWirelessTech ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkc8EI )

04:03:11 asciilifeform: there was a brief time in '90s when 'discount' launches using repurposed ru nukes on subs were to be had

04:03:21 asciilifeform: but this was not a sufficiently 'mass' phenomenon to make a real difference

04:03:27 asciilifeform: and - afaik - they're through

04:03:46 decimation: http://www.wsj.com/articles/greg-wylers-oneweb-satellite-internet-company-secures-funding-1421278832 < "OneWeb Ltd. said it had secured funding from Richard Branson?s Virgin Group and Qualcomm Inc. for a planned Internet service powered by a constellation of 648 satellites."

04:03:48 assbot: Greg Wyler’s OneWeb Satellite-Internet Company Secures Funding - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkcf37 )

04:04:06 decimation: 648!

04:04:13 asciilifeform: (repurposed ~rockets~ rather than nuke per se, yes)

04:04:20 asciilifeform: usg scam

04:04:29 decimation: nope, not usg

04:04:32 decimation: http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/06/15/oneweb-selects-airbus-to-build-900-internet-satellites/

04:04:33 assbot: OneWeb selects Airbus to build 900 Internet satellites | Spaceflight Now ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkchbl )

04:04:33 asciilifeform: ultimately they are gunning for u.s. state dept (yes) funding

04:04:37 decimation: euroscam

04:04:39 asciilifeform: 'internet for d1ss1d3ntz1111!!!111'

04:04:48 decimation: same idea though

04:04:55 asciilifeform: perhaps i'm thinking of a previous iteration of this sc4m

04:05:26 asciilifeform: perhaps somebody ~else~ is the mark this time

04:05:27 decimation: "An 840-satellite constellation named Teledesic went bust in 2002 before its first launch, even with the backing of Bill Gates, cell phone tycoon Craig McCaw and Saudi Arabian Prince Alwaleed bin Talal."

04:05:44 decimation: maybe you are thinking of iridium

04:05:49 decimation: which I think is now actually owned by usg

04:06:07 asciilifeform: important to remember that sat constellation is not a permanent animal in any sense

04:06:11 asciilifeform: more like 'sand painting'

04:06:19 decimation: well, especially leo

04:06:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00040636 = 19.5459 BTC [-]

04:06:34 decimation: atmospheric drag takes sats down

04:06:48 decimation: but you don't want to be outside leo either, because of the radiation

04:06:51 asciilifeform: aha

04:07:10 asciilifeform: wherever you put it, it dies after ~decade, max

04:07:13 decimation: like our recent angry sunspot has demonstrated

04:08:10 decimation: asciilifeform: nope http://ww2.amsat.org/?page_id=1031 < apparently hams still use a satellite launched in 1974

04:08:11 assbot: AO-7 | AMSAT-NA ... ( http://bit.ly/1JkcviE )

04:08:30 asciilifeform: neato

04:08:34 decimation: it's mostly broken, but sometimes the batteries unshort and you can get hemisephric comms

04:08:34 asciilifeform: wonder what it's made of

04:08:37 asciilifeform: vacuum valves ?

04:08:40 decimation: it's pretty simple

04:09:19 decimation: also I think both 'voyager' probes are still functional

04:09:35 decimation: although nearly useless because of the decay in their radiothermal units

04:10:03 asciilifeform: i bet a good share of the scrap metal floating about in space is 'functional' by this definition

04:10:08 asciilifeform: as in, some portion still 'works'

04:10:20 decimation: yeah probably

04:10:21 asciilifeform: but 'usable for the purpose for which was built' - different matter.

04:11:09 decimation: yeah it's sop to overdesign satellites and expect failure

04:11:25 asciilifeform: ... and this is just to get the 5-8 y. expected life.

04:11:27 decimation: which is why it's amusing that the current generation thinks that launching smartphones into space is a great idea

04:11:36 asciilifeform: great idea if usg pays.

04:12:21 decimation: or some $bil chumper

04:12:48 asciilifeform: no one in natoreich has so much as smelled $bil except by mercy of the crown.

04:13:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17822 @ 0.00040558 = 7.2282 BTC [-] {2}

04:14:02 decimation: yes, in branson's case it was performing 'regulatory arbitrage' on euro airline regulations

04:17:10 asciilifeform: !up Vexual

04:18:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65517 @ 0.00040361 = 26.4433 BTC [-]

04:18:40 phf: asciilifeform: you might find this interesting http://glyf.org/tmp/bastard-delay.png. red dots are bastards when they are finally accepted, green dots are corresponding failed attempts

04:18:41 assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1J6TBsE )

04:19:13 asciilifeform: phf: very interesting, and probably deserves to be posted to therealbitcoin mailinglist.

04:19:29 decimation: phf: neat

04:19:33 asciilifeform: (at present everyone who reads it, also reads #b-a, but this is not guaranteed)

04:19:40 decimation: I did a small sample of this, but not the whole deal

04:20:15 asciilifeform: phf: if you generated this with a custom patch for the beast itself, please share this

04:20:23 decimation: the only solution I can think of is to spoon feed nodes in a 'known good' order

04:20:34 phf: asciilifeform: unfortunately not, parsing the log files

04:20:57 asciilifeform: phf: somewhere we have an anti-debug.log-rollover patch

04:21:03 asciilifeform: but perhaps you did this already yourself.

04:21:29 asciilifeform: decimation: the current 'solution' - patience - also works.

04:21:41 decimation: phf: I made a patch to note from which node each block comes

04:21:51 decimation: it's amusing to watch the thing jump around

04:22:23 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah it's certainly not the most pressing problem with bitcoind

04:22:29 asciilifeform: the whole 'one sync partner at a time' thing is also retarded, but trying to do anything about it without bringing back 'bastard cache' is pointless

04:23:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108200 @ 0.0003982 = 43.0852 BTC [-] {3}

04:24:38 phf: asciilifeform: i ran into log rollover, and had to restart syncing process from scratch. yet another "convenience" anti feature

04:27:30 asciilifeform: phf: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771 << zap it

04:27:32 assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1JkdQWK )

04:27:47 asciilifeform: trivial change.

04:28:02 asciilifeform: i probably oughta add a commandline flag for this

04:28:07 asciilifeform: as permanent fixture

04:28:26 asciilifeform: (rollover by default, but can be toggled)

04:28:45 decimation: asciilifeform: in the future, it would be useful to set the 'buffer size' for incoming txns in the conf file

04:28:48 asciilifeform: ^ whoever wants to do this, it'd be a good thing

04:29:04 asciilifeform: decimation: mempool size ?

04:29:20 decimation: mapOrphanTransactions?

04:29:26 asciilifeform: gone

04:29:38 asciilifeform: and i see no reason to ever bring it back..

04:29:42 asciilifeform: (anyone?)

04:29:49 Vexual: cunt runs a tight ship

04:30:06 decimation: ah I see, was looking at earlier patch

04:30:20 asciilifeform: Vexual: ship runs tight cunt

04:30:53 decimation: asciilifeform: so does the tx pool consist strictly of those txns which originate from previous block only?

04:31:02 asciilifeform: blocks.

04:31:23 decimation: yeah, previous valid blocks.

04:31:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-06-2015#1154352 << see also.

04:31:27 assbot: Logged on 05-06-2015 00:42:31; asciilifeform: mod6: he rebroadcasts until finds a node that can accept it without 'jam tomorrow'

04:31:28 asciilifeform: yes,

04:31:29 asciilifeform: .

04:32:05 asciilifeform: key point here is that anything without a hard antecedent ~on disk now~ could equally well be random garbage

04:32:12 decimation: yeah

04:32:24 asciilifeform: asking node to accept maybe-verifiable-as-not-rubbish-tomorrow is a jam-tomorrow.

04:32:30 decimation: so when new block is found, and the new block only contains a subset of the existing tx pool

04:32:43 decimation: do the 'non-blocked' txns remain?

04:32:54 asciilifeform: remain where?

04:32:58 decimation: in mempool

04:33:03 asciilifeform: whose mempool

04:33:15 decimation: well, imma node, I hear txns, they all come from previous blocks

04:33:36 decimation: a new block is found, some of the txns in memory are now contained in the new block

04:33:46 decimation: some are not

04:33:56 asciilifeform: they sit, yes

04:34:00 asciilifeform: where would they go.

04:34:05 decimation: also flush

04:34:18 decimation: if you failed to make it in a block, your txn doesn't exist, resend

04:34:45 asciilifeform: out of general principle, ought to retransmit until 'blockified'

04:34:51 decimation: indeed

04:34:52 asciilifeform: because mempool is by nature ephemeral

04:35:04 decimation: thus, node may flush txn at its pleasure

04:35:06 asciilifeform: aha

04:35:12 asciilifeform: by, say, turning off mains plug

04:35:17 decimation: indeed

04:35:28 decimation: or by setting a conf flag for 'how long does txn sit'

04:35:32 asciilifeform: aha.

04:36:13 decimation: or a conf flag for sorting txns by value for a miner

04:36:15 asciilifeform: i will confess that i've always found the whole 'mempool' thing to be a dodge

04:36:31 asciilifeform: why is everybody stuck playing cache for the miners

04:36:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34370 @ 0.00041082 = 14.1199 BTC [+] {2}

04:36:54 decimation: as in, why does non-miner node even bother with txns?

04:36:59 asciilifeform: aha

04:37:19 decimation: yeah it's kinda masterbatory

04:37:34 asciilifeform: not even sure that it was done for cache, rather than out of some misguided notion of 'anonymization'

04:37:47 asciilifeform: (like the idiot 'change addr' thing)

04:38:32 decimation: asciilifeform: one can imagine an entire new 'metaprotocol' for sufficiently pleasing a miner to accept your txn

04:38:42 asciilifeform: what's wrong with 'fee'

04:38:47 decimation: nothin'

04:39:01 decimation: but it would be nice for the miner to send a polite rejection 'add yer fee'

04:39:22 decimation: this will become explict at some point anyway

04:39:34 asciilifeform: why would they bother to answer ?

04:39:42 decimation: I guess miner 'speaks with sword'

04:39:51 asciilifeform: responsibility of sender of tx to learn what 'going rate' is

04:41:19 decimation: I suppose they can find through out-of-band comms with miner or by 'did it make it into block'

04:41:45 asciilifeform: not sure why any communication other than 'fee' and 'made into block or not' is necessary here

04:42:01 decimation: so n00bs know how much 'fee' to add

04:42:11 decimation: a minor learning curve

04:42:13 asciilifeform: they can look at recently blockified tx-en

04:42:19 decimation: indeed.

04:42:34 decimation: at any rate, making the reference client attractive to miners would be wise

04:43:18 asciilifeform: can't help but wonder if any serious miner will ever touch what he himself did not write

04:43:26 asciilifeform: sorta like mircea_popescu's magical private bitcoind

04:43:44 asciilifeform: why would a 'serious' fella 1) use anything but what himself wrote 2) share so much as a word of it with anyone

04:43:52 asciilifeform: much to lose - little to gain.

04:43:54 decimation: because lazy

04:44:07 decimation: knows more about how to pile asics than how to program bitcoind

04:44:24 decimation: these skills are not the same 'ting' as taleb wrote

04:45:07 *: asciilifeform does not have 'intel dept.' and cannot comment re: what miners do, aside from the trivially observable

04:45:12 decimation: asciilifeform: why would ulbricht keep detailed records of his incriminating evidence on his laptop?

04:45:22 asciilifeform: decimation: because retardation?

04:45:26 decimation: exactly.

04:46:10 asciilifeform: incidentally, prior to the fall of ulbricht, i entertained the notion that sr is run by 'serious person'

04:46:20 decimation: heh me too

04:46:22 asciilifeform: on custom logic, etc.

04:46:36 decimation: in retrospect, using 'tor' was a giveaway

04:46:38 asciilifeform: but folks who actually ~saw~ sr alive tell me that this was always loony.

04:47:34 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, for instance, sr also ran escrow service

04:48:10 punkman: and hedging service

04:49:07 decimation: asciilifeform: actually what amazes me more is that kim-jung-il doesn't run his own 'silk road'

04:49:16 decimation: err, kim jung-un

04:49:17 punkman: maybe he does

04:49:25 punkman: there's like 3 dozen of them

04:49:32 asciilifeform: between the coke, whores, and 'warcraft' - when ?

04:49:38 decimation: heh

04:49:49 decimation: yeah, but dpr has already shown how to annoy usg

04:50:03 decimation: of course the opm hack did about 1000x more damage to usg

04:50:21 asciilifeform: kju 'annoys usg' in strictly-circumscribed kabuki defined by his elders.

04:50:32 decimation: if only to make it obvious that usg employees can't trust usg to keep them safe

04:51:08 funkenstein_: i'm not in the know, but always assumed various usg hat wearing agencies mostly competed with other usg hat wearing agencies

04:51:17 decimation: yeah he is just the crazy guy who yells at people until he is placated with rice

04:51:44 asciilifeform: mr mold's term was 'muppet state'

04:51:55 asciilifeform: muppet can 'bite' muppeteer, but to a point.

04:52:04 decimation: yeah, I think yarvin's 'state vs dod' proxy wars make a fair bit of sense

04:58:30 asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/stats << aaaand we've past 1+M.

04:58:35 *: asciilifeform reaches for gear shift lever

05:00:30 *: punkman hits 500 error

05:00:37 decimation: asciilifeform: are you still feeding gpg keys into it?

05:01:19 asciilifeform: decimation: not as of 2 min. ago

05:01:21 mircea_popescu: just reload punkman

05:01:44 asciilifeform: and yes, sqlite was not meant for this

05:01:48 decimation: how many sks keys exist?

05:01:57 decimation: heh no not really

05:02:07 asciilifeform: ~1.3M rsa-containing keys

05:02:35 asciilifeform: https://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/wv-57.jpg?w=580&h=345

05:02:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1J6WLg1 )

05:02:49 mircea_popescu: what was sqlite meant for ?

05:02:56 asciilifeform: stamp collections ?

05:03:13 decimation: no, actually it was originall designed to be wedged into a usg radar system

05:04:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45014 @ 0.00039938 = 17.9777 BTC [-] {3}

05:04:40 mircea_popescu: i thought stamp collectors all use mysql

05:04:40 decimation: "Hipp was designing software used aboard guided missile destroyers, which were originally based on HP-UX with an IBM Informix database back-end. The design goals of SQLite were to allow the program to be operated without installing a database management system or requiring a database administrator."

05:04:54 decimation: !up Vexual

05:05:09 decimation: ^ guy had to wedge relational database into ancient unix shit

05:05:17 decimation: without db admin, or thinking person involved

05:05:40 mircea_popescu: also, branson specialises in being scammed.

05:06:12 decimation: yeah he also invested in that 'space tourism' loltron

05:06:21 mircea_popescu: this "without installing a database management system or requiring a database administrator." reads to me like "car that can be used without breaks"

05:06:26 mircea_popescu: sure, for as long as it can be used it can be used

05:06:29 mircea_popescu: after which...

05:06:46 Vexual: manupause

05:06:48 decimation: yeah, point of db admin is to actually think about how to arrange data

05:06:49 mircea_popescu: decimation isn't he the original "how to make a small fortune ? start with a big one" ?

05:07:00 decimation: heh yeah

05:07:08 mircea_popescu: music label. went to shit.

05:07:10 mircea_popescu: airline. went to shit.

05:07:14 mircea_popescu: "space tourism". shit.

05:07:23 mircea_popescu: you name it, he turned it to shit. shitranson.

05:07:38 Vexual: teeths are shiny

05:07:49 asciilifeform: wake me up when he has problems making rent

05:07:56 mircea_popescu: if they stacked shit that high he could have a twin brother, go whiterafting with the bitcoin godfather pair.

05:09:12 mircea_popescu: i don't get something. what does having more satellites help ? you still have the same problems of intsat whether there's ten or ten thousand.

05:10:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41100 @ 0.00039603 = 16.2768 BTC [-]

05:10:32 decimation: apparently his airline is still going to shit

05:10:35 asciilifeform: it 'helps' in the sense of (as they hope) setting up money siphon from usg

05:10:44 asciilifeform: to constantly send up 'disposable' boxes into leo

05:11:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175593 << i was worth > 1 bil earlier this year i'll have you know!

05:11:02 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:12:48; asciilifeform: no one in natoreich has so much as smelled $bil except by mercy of the crown.

05:11:12 asciilifeform: 1b in spendables.

05:11:17 asciilifeform: as in, turkeys.

05:11:18 mircea_popescu: and then mom asked "in what currency" and i said "doesn't matter"

05:11:43 mircea_popescu: turkeys are "spendables" ?!

05:11:51 decimation: mircea_popescu: 'more satellites' is needed because leo

05:12:05 decimation: low earth satellites can only 'see' a small fraction of the earth

05:12:10 decimation: and therefore need lots for coverage

05:12:17 decimation: the reason why you want leo is: latency

05:12:26 mircea_popescu: decimation ok, sure. but all you need is one up. having to up helps maybe some. 200 ? marginal utility decays pretty fast

05:12:28 mircea_popescu: would seem to me.

05:12:28 decimation: speed of light delay from earth to geo and back is intolerable

05:12:45 decimation: no, do the orbital math

05:12:54 decimation: leo is only visible for a few minutes at a time

05:12:58 decimation: a few times per day

05:12:58 mircea_popescu: oh so it's actually needed for coverage

05:12:59 mircea_popescu: aha

05:13:15 decimation: so you a continuous parade to maintain coverage yes

05:13:18 mircea_popescu: basically, if you're gonna do leo telecoms it's either 1k or go home

05:13:23 decimation: yep

05:13:27 mircea_popescu: ic.

05:13:34 decimation: and leo is the only answer to the latency issue

05:13:40 mircea_popescu: right.

05:13:44 mircea_popescu: and your parade won't stay ordered

05:13:49 decimation: nope

05:13:51 mircea_popescu: so this is basically a continual launch deal.

05:13:54 asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/stats << aaaand we're back.

05:13:59 decimation: exactly

05:14:03 mircea_popescu: nice contract to have.

05:14:06 decimation: and each satellite needs to maintain its orbit, etc

05:14:12 asciilifeform: nah

05:14:16 asciilifeform: these are 'breadboxes'

05:14:18 asciilifeform: no thrusters.

05:14:24 asciilifeform: (at least, last i saw this scam)

05:14:24 decimation: using fuel or magnetorquers

05:14:41 asciilifeform: whole point of the 'microsats'

05:14:43 asciilifeform: no mechanicals

05:14:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would suspect they'd have a minimal sail or something

05:14:54 asciilifeform: not the last time i saw this.

05:14:57 asciilifeform: plain cubes.

05:15:08 mircea_popescu: just give them a little assymetry allow them some limited self-righting

05:15:12 mircea_popescu: otherwise this smacks of insanity.

05:15:26 asciilifeform: usganity

05:16:06 decimation: no they have magnets to orient themselves with earth's magnetic field

05:16:17 decimation: but this isn't a simple matter either, obviously

05:16:22 mircea_popescu: anyway, nioce contract to have. basically, it's a "build this many launchers and fire them continuously forever"

05:16:24 asciilifeform: kinda useless if couldn't align

05:16:29 asciilifeform: (horn gotta point down)

05:16:41 decimation: asciilifeform: aye, that's why you also need to align

05:16:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ~all~ satellite business reduces to that kind of contract

05:16:47 asciilifeform: only question is - how often

05:16:53 mircea_popescu: this seems pretty often

05:16:58 mircea_popescu: both because drag and headcount.

05:17:00 asciilifeform: aha

05:17:00 decimation: how? star tracker: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/podcasting/StarTrackers.html

05:17:01 assbot: NASA - Star Trackers Lights the Way ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBWn9l )

05:17:12 mircea_popescu: you get 100x as many sats with 0.01x lifespan. 10kx !

05:17:16 asciilifeform: which is why i said, these folks are trying to push scam to a kind of logical conclusion

05:17:31 decimation: yeah the oneweb thing is about an order of magnitude bigger at trying to do something that has failed every time it has been tried

05:17:35 asciilifeform: i predict that eventually they will justify it with talk of 'railguns'

05:17:46 asciilifeform: which will launch microsats 'for free', 'any day now'

05:17:56 mircea_popescu: i dun see why not.

05:18:00 mircea_popescu: they do launch jets off carriers atm

05:18:12 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXtsGAkyeIo nazi vid got flagged

05:18:19 mircea_popescu: not free of course. but cheaper than steam

05:18:22 asciilifeform: not impossible to build hardware that eats 500g

05:18:23 decimation: the 'why not' is the massive acceleration you have to give with reasonable sized guns

05:18:25 mircea_popescu: faster charge at any rate.

05:18:26 asciilifeform: but costs.

05:18:28 decimation: exactly

05:18:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's reasonable sized ? could be a mile long for all it matters.

05:19:02 decimation: heh

05:19:02 asciilifeform: mile long vacuum ?

05:19:03 mircea_popescu: just think you're making a bridge

05:19:06 asciilifeform: or mile of atmosphere

05:19:07 mircea_popescu: sure.

05:19:30 asciilifeform: ;;google hochdruckpumpe

05:19:31 gribble: Common Rail Hochdruckpumpe Animation - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbYsVDD0PI; V-3 cannon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-3_cannon; Fortress of Mimoyecques - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_of_Mimoyecques

05:19:32 mircea_popescu: "discouraged atmosphere", soft vacuum

05:19:37 decimation: for one thing you would need a massive capacitor bank

05:19:46 mircea_popescu: so you would.

05:19:57 mircea_popescu: the rail gun is the necessary next step after the cern

05:20:02 mircea_popescu: basically the same hardware involved.

05:20:18 asciilifeform: not physically impossible, just very gnarly.

05:20:22 mircea_popescu: sure.

05:20:31 mircea_popescu: which is what makes for a decent engineering project.

05:20:36 asciilifeform: at any rate, actually building it would run contrary to the spirit of the scam

05:20:46 *: mircea_popescu isn't much into scams.

05:20:49 asciilifeform: that money 'could be snorted'

05:20:59 mircea_popescu: but the rail gun is more substantial than most shit getting funded.

05:21:08 asciilifeform: i can think of 1,001 'substantial'

05:21:16 decimation: it's probably more realistic to launch small chemical rockets factory-style

05:21:30 decimation: like the nazis did, more-or-less

05:21:30 mircea_popescu: decimation dirtier.

05:21:37 decimation: sure, but not a mega-project

05:21:43 mircea_popescu: but this is a mega project.

05:21:47 mircea_popescu: that's the predicate.

05:22:01 mircea_popescu: we want 1k+ launch events each day, and we want a total of 100 tons shipped upstairs a day.

05:22:01 asciilifeform: i bet something like lensed explosive would beat railgun

05:22:07 asciilifeform: with similar engineering constraints

05:22:28 decimation: asciilifeform: or the 'drop nukes behind steel shell' method

05:22:37 mircea_popescu: dirty.

05:24:21 mircea_popescu: http://glyf.org/tmp/bastard-delay.png << great graph thx.

05:24:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBWTnL )

05:24:25 decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/05/bent_flyvbjerg.html > re: megaprojects: " Guest: No, it's actually worse than that. Nine out of ten have costs that are underestimated. Nine out of 10 have benefits that are overestimated, and 9 out of 10 have schedules that are underestimated. So, when you combine those, it's actually a very small fraction of projects that both are done to budgets, to schedule, and deliver the promised benefit

05:24:27 assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBWTnU )

05:25:09 mircea_popescu: i dun think this yet happened.

05:25:20 mircea_popescu: what's the project that was on time on budget and delivered ?

05:25:29 mircea_popescu: hoover dam was overrun. big dig was... heh.

05:25:32 mircea_popescu: pick it. which ?

05:25:48 decimation: well, for megaprojects ( > $1 bils) the answer is almost none

05:25:53 Vexual: new panama expansion

05:25:53 asciilifeform: that schmuck who hanged self from elevator.

05:25:57 asciilifeform: said - delivered.

05:25:58 asciilifeform: on time!

05:26:20 mircea_popescu: if you ask him it was prolly late

05:26:21 decimation: he points out that the new guggenheim museum in bilbao spain delievered

05:26:23 mircea_popescu: or early, i guess.

05:27:00 *: asciilifeform wonders about the choice of elevator. gotta have been like those old pirate hangings, with hang/unhang/hang/unhang sequence

05:27:05 asciilifeform: thing goes up, down

05:27:18 decimation: hang from elastic climbing rope?

05:27:50 asciilifeform: http://jessamyn.com/barth/colby.html << as described here!

05:27:57 asciilifeform: (classic of engl. literature)

05:28:03 asciilifeform: 'hanging on bouncyball'

05:28:25 decimation: the megaprojects guy describes the failure of the sydney opera house: "The cost overrun was 1400%. And as always when cost overruns happen, the architect was blamed, and his work situation became so uncomfortable, he found that he actually left the project in the middle, with his family, and flew out of Australia, never to return."

05:28:45 decimation: "That means that we don't have any other buildings. It's equivalent to taking Frank Gehry, who is considered the world's most famous architect by now and who is considered to be in the same league as J?rn Utzon regarding doing magic aesthetics and magic buildings. ... That's the cost of the Sydney Opera House. It was not a success; it was a huge failure, in those terms. "

05:29:14 mircea_popescu: i wish to be shown this "magic aesthetics".

05:29:21 decimation: heh

05:29:25 decimation: I knew you would bite on that line

05:29:37 mircea_popescu: afaik the entire thing';s rubbishj, and if you're going to hire fortune tellers, always hire the cheapest.

05:29:58 decimation: what if one fortune teller is amazingly accurate?

05:29:58 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

05:30:18 asciilifeform: that's like saying 'if going to stot, jump as little as you can'

05:30:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175664 << it is, and remains, the premiere systematic, actual problem of the protocol. somehow, this will have to be fixed.

05:30:21 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:36:15; asciilifeform: i will confess that i've always found the whole 'mempool' thing to be a dodge

05:30:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thery all deliver the same results.

05:30:49 asciilifeform: same amount of 'lion discouragement' ?

05:30:57 asciilifeform: somebody gotta tell the gazelles this.

05:31:10 mircea_popescu: what lion was discouraged from bilbao ?

05:31:17 asciilifeform: none afaik

05:31:23 mircea_popescu: what, it keeps the muslims orderly in line to raping the spanish hos v 2.0 ?

05:31:33 asciilifeform: picking at the general principle of 'cheapest shaman' observation

05:31:59 mircea_popescu: im unconvinced this is stotting. i don't dispute it could be called that, but then again anything could.

05:32:14 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the actual behaviour works in nature. and has its own context. this lacks both those factors.

05:32:50 decimation: and of course, in retrospect everything looks like a good deal: "You should ask the people who actually got to pay for the projects and got to pay the extra sums, whether they are happy about it. Of course, later generations are happy about a project, because they get it for free ride. "

05:32:54 asciilifeform: there is also orlov's 'deer hunter' effect

05:33:18 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175675 << you don't want the bitches talking back. for the obvious reason that if they can, they will, and next you're gonna have voting or some stupidshit like that.

05:33:18 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:39:01; decimation: but it would be nice for the miner to send a polite rejection 'add yer fee'

05:33:26 asciilifeform: (which sums to the observation that it is possible to breed people to become a kind of cow)

05:34:03 decimation: are miners slaves or the elite?

05:34:13 mircea_popescu: yes.

05:34:18 asciilifeform: !b 2

05:34:19 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/07BA2D8.txt )

05:34:20 Vexual: lol

05:34:50 Vexual: pardon

05:35:15 decimation: seems like they are 'commanders of capital' in the classic robber-baron sense

05:35:21 mircea_popescu: hardly.

05:35:42 decimation: what about the pile of asics they gotta buy and feed?

05:35:54 mircea_popescu: what about it ?

05:36:27 asciilifeform: 'Colby asked if he could have a firing squad. No, Howard said, he could not. Howard said a firing squad would just be an ego trip for Colby, the blindfold and last-cigarette bit, and that Colby was in enough hot water already without trying to "upstage" everyone with unnecessary theatrics. Colby said he was sorry, he hadn't meant it that way, he'd take the tree. Tomas crumpled up the gibbet sketches he'd been making, in disgus

05:36:28 asciilifeform: t.'

05:36:37 decimation: as the asic investment gets more expensive, it becomes more centralized and oliogopical

05:36:52 asciilifeform: ^ see also today's asic thread..

05:37:00 decimation: exactly

05:37:13 mircea_popescu: which is why hard forks gotta stay on the table

05:37:15 mircea_popescu: unpleasant as they are.

05:37:26 decimation: what's going to prevent the situation where only two or three miners remain

05:37:38 decimation: and if you want to put a txn on the block, gotta meet their terms

05:37:42 asciilifeform: sorta how working nukes gotta stay on the table

05:37:44 mircea_popescu: if we know this is the case, the blocks change to briock their mining gear.

05:37:49 mircea_popescu: if we don't know this is the case it's not the case.

05:38:02 mircea_popescu: mutually assured anal pain, in the sense they get it.

05:38:35 asciilifeform: 'what is the point of building a doomsday machine if no one is told!' (tm) (r) ('strangelove')

05:39:02 mircea_popescu: "know about it" means something more from physics. "unobservable phenomena are spiritism not physics"

05:39:13 asciilifeform: aha

05:39:22 asciilifeform: (somebody plz tell the 'strings' folks this?!)

05:39:43 mircea_popescu: why, they're cute. everyone watches their "journals" like kitten pics.

05:39:57 asciilifeform: ugh

05:40:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00039603 = 17.9798 BTC [-]

05:41:56 asciilifeform: thing is, like the old-fashioned proverbial nukefest, above scenario works best as a game-theoretical device

05:41:59 asciilifeform: rather than practice.

05:42:19 asciilifeform: if you even smell the practice - your whole system has failed in a catastrophic way

05:42:52 asciilifeform: (picture if the 'anti-centralization hardfork' were a regular event.)

05:43:05 mircea_popescu: da fuckiung world we live in. viasat has been doing satellites forever. google is a newcomer in the field. spacex is a newcomer in general. yet the viasat ceo has to explain why he, the expert, is doing what he's doing. the newb schmucks aren't expected to explain themselves.

05:43:11 decimation: yeah, it sounds like the turkish government

05:43:12 mircea_popescu: fucking upside down alice in wonderland nonsense.

05:44:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me just point out that the theory of "unavoidable monopoly" has issues. for instance, cabs in buenos aires are still un=united.

05:44:23 mircea_popescu: the reason the us has two parties may have more to do with the indolent stolidity of the usians minds than any rule of nature.

05:44:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175523 << see also

05:44:36 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 03:55:27; asciilifeform: this is why i believe that the discovery of integrated circuit was a serious 'degutenbergization' from which we have not even begun to recover.

05:44:50 asciilifeform: ic is fundamentally 'statalizing' tech

05:45:01 asciilifeform: like satellite.

05:45:02 mircea_popescu: for a fundamentally broken people.

05:45:07 asciilifeform: for everyone.

05:45:08 mircea_popescu: not all people react to same tech same way.

05:45:12 decimation: the 'two parties' thing kinda became a convenient foil to distract the masses while the bureaucracy runs things

05:45:25 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175507

05:45:25 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 03:49:51; asciilifeform: because there is no way to effectively amortize the astronomical costs without running a scam of one kind or another.

05:45:31 asciilifeform: true for ic. not for cab.

05:45:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform alchemy was not fundamentally the same thing for chinese and italians.

05:46:02 decimation: yeah, but which alchemy turned lead to gold?

05:46:08 mircea_popescu: what is sailing ? and why has the same tech done different things for the dutch, the english, the spanish, and the latins ?

05:46:13 mircea_popescu: decimation none did.

05:46:21 mircea_popescu: both claimed, very similar almost identical things

05:46:23 decimation: yet, ics ... work

05:46:31 decimation: at least to some definition

05:46:34 mircea_popescu: i just went through 5k lines today of how they don't.

05:46:39 mircea_popescu: well which is it.

05:46:43 asciilifeform: decimation: iirc chinese focused more on the immortality thing

05:46:45 asciilifeform: than gold

05:46:52 mircea_popescu: this is correct

05:46:59 mircea_popescu: but in the same way : philosopher's stone bestows wishes

05:47:06 mircea_popescu: yet they wished infinte time not infiniute money.

05:47:08 mircea_popescu: weird huh

05:47:37 asciilifeform: that's what comes from 'stability' as virtue

05:47:56 mircea_popescu: so not all cultures fuck up tech the same way.

05:48:13 decimation: perhaps not, but nobody makes observable ics yet

05:48:14 asciilifeform: ('infinite money' cultures ended up with equally asinine 'growth as virtue')

05:49:55 decimation: I would agree that if we have a few decades with roughly stable ic fab tech, it's likely that 'growth' will come from genuine design differences

05:50:17 decimation: but you still need $bil to make the thing go

05:50:28 asciilifeform: decimation: not if microshit has a seat at the table.

05:50:46 mircea_popescu: it can not have a seat anywhere.

05:50:51 mircea_popescu: stable means just this : no more sv.

05:50:52 decimation: microshit seems to be capitulating to some degree

05:50:58 asciilifeform: 'genuine design difference' ~requires~ burning last 40 yrs.

05:51:05 asciilifeform: not burned? not genuine difference.

05:51:08 mircea_popescu: and people will, once the moore stops.

05:51:16 mircea_popescu: that was the one pacifier of a thousand quashed hopes.

05:51:17 asciilifeform: it stopped in '07.

05:51:24 decimation: yeah, more-or-less

05:51:27 asciilifeform: wake me up when smell burning.

05:51:31 decimation: it might deliever another cycle or two

05:51:52 mircea_popescu: weren't you arguing that it hasn't stopped when i first proposed this ?

05:52:04 decimation: I was

05:52:22 decimation: intel seems to have legitimate tech to go down another halving or so

05:52:38 asciilifeform: fat lot of good, when, e.g., dram, hasn't kept up

05:52:53 mircea_popescu: doubtful, but anyway. it's a question of when.

05:53:02 asciilifeform: not to mention the 'wriggleysgumizations' introduced by the shrinkage

05:53:08 asciilifeform: lossy dram cells, 'ssd' rot, etc

05:53:55 decimation: but they are scheduling maybe 2016 for 10 nm, maybe http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/intels-10nm-cannonlake-processors-due-in-mid-2016-leaked-roadmap/

05:53:57 assbot: Intel’s 10nm Cannonlake processors due in mid-2016 – leaked roadmap | KitGuru ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBZEp5 )

05:54:20 decimation: note that they are admitting they can't make more than 2 cores without yield issues

05:54:35 mircea_popescu: what's the outlook on what they can make if usg dole dries up ?

05:54:44 asciilifeform: hog harnesses.

05:54:56 mircea_popescu: mmmkay.

05:56:04 *: mircea_popescu is kinda curious how budget for next year looks, on that score. does "law enforcement" get triple budget and everything else trims or not.

05:56:19 asciilifeform: more than one way to budget

05:56:27 decimation: mircea_popescu: it might all be moot if usg's interest rate ticks up

05:56:29 asciilifeform: even now they're what, 20% privateer ?

05:56:35 asciilifeform: (as in, actually funded by loot)

05:56:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175691 << this is a very good argument

05:56:37 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:43:54; decimation: because lazy

05:56:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and they'll be 60% privateer on a tripled budget and it still won't be enough

05:57:09 mircea_popescu: under the very real pressure of a million tiny joe stacks

05:57:12 asciilifeform: enough for what ?

05:57:24 mircea_popescu: i dunno, whatever it is they do.

05:57:28 mircea_popescu: "enforce law"

05:57:47 decimation: might as well go to the roman 'decentralized' system

05:58:00 asciilifeform: wake me up when a hundred, much less million, 'stacks'

05:58:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175705 << not only stupid, but also ignorant. why should he take bitcoin donations ? paypal works fine!

05:58:32 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 04:49:07; decimation: asciilifeform: actually what amazes me more is that kim-jung-il doesn't run his own 'silk road'

05:58:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's been over a hundred this year.

05:58:57 mircea_popescu: there's been about two a week.

05:59:02 decimation: well, if you take the megaprojects guy's arguments at face value, the average megaproject has a 99% chance of failure

05:59:05 asciilifeform: of some schmuck shoots other schmuck? sure

05:59:09 asciilifeform: of schmuck vs usg proper ?

05:59:24 decimation: and considering that every usg agency is effectively a megaproject, usg operates on maybe 1% of its outlays

05:59:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my words were "the very real pressure of a million tiny joe stacks"

06:00:09 mircea_popescu: decimation that's a point.

06:00:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33950 @ 0.00041193 = 13.985 BTC [+]

06:00:26 asciilifeform: a filthy orc knifing a policeman, or similar, is not a 'joe stack.' in my mind, 'stack' is a fella who inflicts disproportionate damage

06:00:39 decimation: my point being that 'services delivered' by usg are completely unrelated to the money spent

06:00:46 asciilifeform: as in, demolishes a 100m whatever

06:00:58 asciilifeform: (recall the janitor who burned down a nuke sub?)

06:01:18 decimation: asciilifeform: there's a similar story with the recently-released files on the metro 'smoke incident'

06:01:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the point of the pressure is not the damage. merely, civilians that dun like da police.

06:02:04 mircea_popescu: and if i recall you protested that joe stack did not do any damage at all, let alone disproportionate

06:02:18 mircea_popescu: you really gotta pick some sort of an orthodoxy, you're making my head spin. which is it

06:02:32 asciilifeform: herr stack ~did~ burn down an office hell (albeit empty)

06:02:38 mircea_popescu: so which is it!

06:03:15 mircea_popescu: alf can't commit. "well, depends. in this circumstance, it is, in that it isn't, whadda ya want from me! peter pan over here, always young an' happy!"

06:03:21 asciilifeform: l0l

06:03:24 mircea_popescu: hehe

06:04:37 mircea_popescu: in other news, i'm having the world's worst strawberries. they are the size of plums, quite red except the part under the leaf is plain white... what the fuck is with this world.

06:04:49 punkman: seems plausible that orc with knife cost them more than joe

06:05:23 mircea_popescu: crunchy and everything. oh, the strawberries of mine youth...

06:05:52 decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/ntsb-begins-two-days-of-public-hearings-into-fatal-metro-incident/2015/06/22/1884da66-190e-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html < metro is run entirely by orcs, who cannot do anything as complicated as reversing a single train

06:05:53 assbot: What Metro train operator heard in tunnel: ‘Yelling, screaming, kicking and banging’ - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1BC0KkQ )

06:05:56 asciilifeform: punkman: question apparently is 'who runs out first?'

06:06:06 asciilifeform: police? or 'antipolice'

06:06:16 mircea_popescu: punkman i can readily see asciilifeform argue that moreover joe stack was part of an obscure bezzlatron to provide office refurbishment at a profit. why not rite.

06:06:16 punkman: they are both in debt already

06:06:45 decimation: the number of "vale're whites" who work for usg far outweighs the number of joe stacks

06:07:13 punkman: my strawberries have a bit of white there too, but this batch is good, smells/tastes like strawberry rather than water balloon

06:07:57 mircea_popescu: i just don't recall ever seeing this, white on a strawberry, as a kid. that's more of a framboise thing

06:08:00 mircea_popescu: however you call em

06:08:25 decimation: heh raspberry

06:08:33 *: asciilifeform ate ~REAL~ strawberries not long ago

06:08:36 mircea_popescu: ah no.

06:08:38 asciilifeform: grown by colleague

06:08:45 mircea_popescu: wtf is it. the tiny strawberry cousin

06:08:55 decimation: alpine strawberries?

06:08:56 trinque: asciilifeform: we've got 'em outside the front door

06:09:06 trinque: way smaller than these giant watery things, but very tasty

06:09:09 trinque: ...and all red

06:09:16 decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria_vesca

06:09:17 assbot: Fragaria vesca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJrkaW )

06:10:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81050 @ 0.00041197 = 33.3902 BTC [+] {2}

06:10:40 mircea_popescu: ^vesca aha

06:11:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: земляника

06:11:23 decimation: !up fourhunderdtypes

06:11:50 fourhunderdtypes: i am a little bit of a strawberryfan

06:12:10 mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/phuctored << 64!

06:12:13 assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJruix )

06:12:23 asciilifeform: and where's the rss thing, aha

06:12:36 asciilifeform: b0rk3d ?

06:12:36 mircea_popescu: guy's busy pimpin'.

06:12:39 asciilifeform: eh.

06:13:15 fourhunderdtypes: buried to the bingo boingos in some boss soil

06:13:47 decimation: vexual: why do you aussies always adopt the most fascist usg fantasies?

06:13:55 mircea_popescu: decimation anyway, why the driver indictment ? seems he wasn't allowed to back out

06:14:05 fourhunderdtypes: i can gine -10 fucks on usg

06:14:17 decimation: no I'm indicting the station controller

06:14:30 decimation: who after-the-fact claimed that she told him to back out

06:14:32 fourhunderdtypes: i forget

06:14:41 fourhunderdtypes: u troll surely

06:14:43 decimation: but nobody seems to remember that

06:15:17 decimation: "Incredibly, the second train?s driver, Connie Conner, proceeded into L?Enfant Plaza even after she heard her counterpart in the train a few hundred feet ahead asking for clearance to reverse course and return to the station. A controller says she twice ordered Ms. Conner to stop her train short of the station; Ms. Conner denies it."

06:15:24 fourhunderdtypes: can u dumb it down a little?

06:15:37 mircea_popescu: ah

06:16:09 decimation: "In a separate debriefing, however, ROCC controller Vale?re White contradicted Conner, saying that she did give that order. ?I go, to 510: ?510, stop your train.? I said it to her twice.?"

06:16:40 fourhunderdtypes: oh, right, yes, we're all drunk all day

06:17:10 fourhunderdtypes: and everything coasts 2 million dollars

06:17:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00041226 = 13.8107 BTC [+]

06:17:39 fourhunderdtypes: it gets uber cinfusing

06:17:52 decimation: and your construction is shit

06:18:02 fourhunderdtypes: nope

06:18:32 fourhunderdtypes: we miht fail on nukesub, but everything simpler is easy

06:18:40 decimation: but mainly your government seems to want to control the internet

06:18:43 decimation: which is highly amusing

06:18:50 fourhunderdtypes: oh, yeha

06:19:11 fourhunderdtypes: thatll fail

06:20:33 fourhunderdtypes: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HLY1NTe04M fuck republicans

06:21:24 fourhunderdtypes: i want my shit for free

06:22:34 decimation: why would changing australia into a republic change anything important?

06:22:38 fourhunderdtypes: if i dont marry a foreigner, im not a torrorist

06:23:19 fourhunderdtypes: yeah i dunno, i don't vote

06:23:29 decimation: I heard that marrying a white girl is the same as selling an abo gasoline

06:23:36 decimation: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/712/396/b9a.png

06:23:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJskeV )

06:23:39 fourhunderdtypes: lol

06:25:57 mircea_popescu: wut, bushwhacker humour not appreciated in the west end ?! WHO KNEW!!!

06:26:17 fourhunderdtypes: hey i could make a ballet

06:26:44 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6v9czop681qg8ft2o1_1280.jpg << i confess the thigh ankle leather wraps are a splendid idea.

06:26:45 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJszqt )

06:26:45 fourhunderdtypes: the morrocan hash is heavy tho

06:27:01 mircea_popescu: s/ankle/wrist/ anyway

06:27:08 *: fourhunderdtypes likes this

06:27:45 cazalla: decimation, i should do a voice over youtube video for that meme

06:27:54 decimation: heh yeah I thought of you

06:28:41 fourhunderdtypes: fuck the meme, see the balet

06:29:22 cazalla: something in this manner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gokBHXc5HaU

06:29:23 assbot: It's called Bitcoin, dad - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJsMKb )

06:30:16 decimation: hehe

06:30:25 fourhunderdtypes: yeah thats well and well, but ...

06:30:49 mircea_popescu: !up chewie_

06:34:41 chewie_: !up

06:37:41 fourhunderdtypes: mmm goat

06:38:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9150 @ 0.00041226 = 3.7722 BTC [+]

06:39:57 fourhunderdtypes: " of the crooked timber of humanity no correct thing was ever made. " < this mustbe in my ballet

06:44:40 punkman: !up eatinstrawberry

06:44:43 punkman: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-court-california-raisins-20150623-story.html

06:44:44 assbot: High court rules against raisin board in dispute over setting aside crops to prop up prices - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJtMhm )

06:54:19 cazalla: eatinstrawberry, ya having a few drinks there vexual?

06:55:01 eatinstrawberry: never

06:56:08 cazalla: while eating muh chicken wings for lunch, i was tempted to go and get some rum but i fell asleep instead.. change of heart once i woke up

06:56:32 eatinstrawberry: oh noes

06:56:41 eatinstrawberry: u felloff the wagns?

06:57:12 mircea_popescu: anbd in today's installment we find that online ad networks are positively fucking insane. the kabuki seems to be, "we serve up some html heavy pages of random nouns and you sign up".

06:57:13 cazalla: nah, still sober (3 1/2 weeks)

06:57:33 mircea_popescu: let aloine the "do you motherfuckers take bitcoin" point, no specs are offered whatsoever. i can't see what fucking sites they run

06:58:01 mircea_popescu: why the fuck would i care to deal with such idiots ? if they had the golden goose, why would i ? they don';t know enough about selling to sell me on their own fucking salesmanship already

06:58:06 eatinstrawberry: u take bitcoin right?

06:58:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.0004067 = 11.1843 BTC [-]

06:58:12 cazalla: mircea_popescu, you can take the boy out of romania...

06:58:23 mircea_popescu: button, "advertisers" spawns " Overview Audiences Engagement Performance"

06:58:27 mircea_popescu: what the motherfucking hell is this ?!

06:58:36 mircea_popescu: http://exponential.com/advertisers-overview/ << what the shit ?

06:58:37 assbot: For Advertisers - Exponential ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJulaZ )

06:58:43 eatinstrawberry: lol

06:58:51 mircea_popescu: they keep changing names every thirty weeks too, like any internet scammer.

06:59:10 cazalla: eatinstrawberry, try and use "romanian" and "paypal" in a legitimate sentence lol

06:59:31 eatinstrawberry: fucking easy

06:59:42 mircea_popescu: cazalla you know i had an account for a decade +, which ~I~ closed ?

06:59:52 mircea_popescu: business verified, the works.

06:59:55 eatinstrawberry: ive got overt varieties

07:00:30 cazalla: yeah i know where to buy those too :P

07:00:41 mircea_popescu: heck, i'm on the record buying bitcoins with it.

07:00:56 mircea_popescu: how about that. find someone who can buy btc with paypal eh.

07:01:13 cazalla: from someone in your wot?

07:01:33 eatinstrawberry: shall i count to 100?

07:02:08 mircea_popescu: !gettrust rammerhammer mircea_popescu

07:02:08 assbot: Trust relationship from user rammerhammer to user mircea_popescu: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=rammerhammer&to=mircea_popescu | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/mircea_popescu/

07:02:11 cazalla: the amusing part about this, to me anyway, is that /r/bitcoin often promotes bitcoin for use in such countries because of paypal's antics

07:02:43 mircea_popescu: the funny thing to me is that the general internet population assumes nationality = residence.

07:02:51 mircea_popescu: lulz of all time. peasants online.

07:02:55 mircea_popescu: !up fromphuctor

07:03:20 cazalla: on basis i have never left the shores of australia.. i reluctantly agree

07:03:31 eatinstrawberry: whaa?

07:03:46 mircea_popescu: "Maximize your unsold inventory" herp.

07:04:04 mircea_popescu: pulsepoint doesn't even load.

07:04:20 mircea_popescu: jesus fuck the world's coming to an end over here. nobody seems to be doing any work anymore.

07:05:10 fromphuctor: hello

07:05:21 fromphuctor: do I have a voice?

07:05:31 mircea_popescu: "Our Solutions Leadership About Us Careers News Contact" who the fuck thought this is how you do it ? it's almost like the soviet butcher, "we're the advertising shop, we don't have publishers. fish is what they don't have in the shop down the street"

07:05:38 cazalla: also amusing they related a bitcoin transaction with fraud when it is really the antithesis to that sorta thing (except humble bundle who rumour is got carded big time for gaming codes using coinbase)

07:05:43 mircea_popescu: yes. what did you want to say fromphuctor ?

07:05:45 eatinstrawberry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5AQIlmM0I

07:05:46 assbot: Flight of the Conchords Ep2 She's So Hot - Boom - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJuDP6 )

07:06:03 eatinstrawberry: fuck i got assbot

07:06:25 fromphuctor: I'm unable to submit my GPG key online to Phuctor

07:06:26 mircea_popescu: cazalla yes, very amusing how the stupid brain doesn't merely fail to work, but manages to work contrary t osense. you'd think this has to be engineered, but apparently iot comes naturally

07:06:30 mircea_popescu: out of bad strawberries.

07:06:46 fromphuctor: it's an as-of-yet unpublished GPG key because I wanted to make sure it's not easily factorable

07:07:06 fromphuctor: it's quite a large key with a few subkeys, total upload size is around 13K

07:07:07 mircea_popescu: fromphuctor well atm it's working through a lengthy list of keys already extant on the sks servers.

07:07:15 mircea_popescu: so what's it say ?

07:07:24 fromphuctor: HTTP 500

07:07:41 mircea_popescu: insist a few times

07:08:05 fromphuctor: okay, I'll keep sending

07:08:22 fromphuctor: I figured it was either failing due to the key being too large or due to it not being published anywhere

07:08:42 mircea_popescu: it's most likely failure due to the fact that the apache bit is last in line at the cpu through

07:08:44 fromphuctor: so it's most likely that phuctor's just too loaded right now?

07:08:52 fromphuctor: gotcha

07:08:59 mircea_popescu: it's been too loaded for months as it cuts through millions of 'em

07:09:21 fromphuctor: is there code I can run locally to attempt to factor it and save Phuctor's CPU time?

07:09:36 mircea_popescu: well, an implementation of gcd is what you need, and the P

07:09:41 mircea_popescu: which is like half a gig by now iirc

07:10:07 fromphuctor: gcd as in the math function? does it exist in a binary?

07:10:27 fromphuctor: and do I need P if I don't particularly care about collisions?

07:10:32 mircea_popescu: uh

07:10:42 mircea_popescu: ok, you've winded me.

07:10:54 fromphuctor: sorry :-|

07:10:55 eatinstrawberry: who?

07:11:18 mircea_popescu: a) if you're looking for binaries it's unlikely your key is your weak point ; b) gcd is an algorithm, i guess you could call it a function. "greatest common divisor" ; c) P is at the core of this, as it looks for MUTUAL divisors

07:11:41 fromphuctor: I'm mainly trying to determine if I have generated a key with bad entropy leading to bad primes meaning easy factorability

07:11:45 mircea_popescu: you could run a probabilistic test on your own machine for your own modulus. if you have a good rng this usually woirks,

07:11:49 mircea_popescu: but it's what gpg does anyway

07:12:08 fromphuctor: so Phuctor's main advantage is that it retains the information it has gained by going through all the other keys?

07:12:14 mircea_popescu: exactly.

07:12:19 fromphuctor: gotcha

07:12:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00041514 = 12.4542 BTC [+] {4}

07:12:35 fromphuctor: so I don't gain much by just running it locally without P

07:12:57 mircea_popescu: well, again, gpg has a probabilistic test for primality baked in.

07:13:08 mircea_popescu: but nothing keeps you from simplytrying to factor your own modulus on your own machine

07:14:00 mircea_popescu: you could not use gcd for this, however, as gcd is an algorithm to find shared factors, not simply factors. you'd have to have something to compare against.

07:14:02 fromphuctor: alright, sleeves need to be rolled up. I'll probably have to dig into ASN.1, extract the public keys, and then try factoring them with a kludged together Python script

07:14:18 mircea_popescu: !s pgpdump

07:14:19 assbot: 8 results for 'pgpdump' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pgpdump

07:14:31 fromphuctor: better, nice

07:14:53 fromphuctor: in the meantime, I'll probably script something that sends my file to Phuctor repeatedly until I stop getting an error.

07:15:02 fromphuctor: provided that doesn't get me flagged.

07:15:09 mircea_popescu: jsut send it a few times, eh.

07:15:33 fromphuctor: until I stop getting 500

07:15:59 cazalla: !up eatinstrawberry

07:19:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140250 @ 0.00040365 = 56.6119 BTC [-] {2}

07:20:13 fromphuctor: thanks for the pointers in the right direction, have a great day

07:20:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22057 @ 0.000402 = 8.8669 BTC [-]

07:45:35 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175887 <<< i might be uncultured swine but i've never understood the appeal of the opera house.. i'd demolish it if i had my way

07:45:35 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 05:28:25; decimation: the megaprojects guy describes the failure of the sydney opera house: "The cost overrun was 1400%. And as always when cost overruns happen, the architect was blamed, and his work situation became so uncomfortable, he found that he actually left the project in the middle, with his family, and flew out of Australia, never to return."

07:46:03 cazalla: this extends as far back as school excursions to the stupid fucking place

07:53:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68993 @ 0.00041038 = 28.3133 BTC [+] {2}

07:54:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17061 @ 0.00039921 = 6.8109 BTC [-] {3}

08:11:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15044 @ 0.00041498 = 6.243 BTC [+]

08:12:25 *: mircea_popescu enjoys opera

08:12:32 mircea_popescu: hard to find these days tho. lotta crap.

08:16:58 davout: +1 to opera

08:24:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63350 @ 0.00042927 = 27.1943 BTC [+] {3}

08:25:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00043133 = 7.7208 BTC [+]

08:26:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102300 @ 0.0004139 = 42.342 BTC [-] {2}

08:27:37 cazalla: i've never known anyone to go to the sydney opera house for opera, not so sure they even have such things on a reg occurance, more bands, abo dance, international acts sorta thing

08:28:51 cazalla: in other australian news - http://i.imgur.com/fw7Fq8z.png - aussie government welfare app #22, they must be quite happy with that

08:28:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eIAzyT )

08:31:41 mircea_popescu: better than pool

08:31:44 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176185 <<< you actually finished them off? bit shocked tbh

08:31:44 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 07:06:30; mircea_popescu: out of bad strawberries.

08:32:05 cazalla: ya should've had kramer take it back

08:32:16 mircea_popescu: "it comes naturally...out of bad strawberries."

08:34:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61700 @ 0.00043133 = 26.6131 BTC [+]

08:43:25 cazalla: tried growing em one year but possums got to em

08:44:00 cazalla: some japanese variety, forget the name

08:54:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30806 @ 0.00041208 = 12.6945 BTC [-]

08:55:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31294 @ 0.00040132 = 12.5589 BTC [-]

08:56:15 shinohai: Good morning, #b-a. If there is a gpg expert here that has a moment to spare I have a question.

08:58:47 davout: shinohai: just ask

08:59:18 shinohai: I am reserching methods of making a larger key and found this: http://teravice.com/wp/index.php/2014/01/22/create-large-gnupg-keys-step-by-step-2/

08:59:20 assbot: Create large GnuPG Keys Step by Step Part 1 (8192 to 16384 bits long) | Technology is in our lives… ... ( http://bit.ly/1dhMu5f )

08:59:33 shinohai: So my question is, is this accurate information?

09:00:11 shinohai: I certainly don't want to do anything that compromises the security f my key intentionally.

09:00:28 davout: shinohai: looks like it would work

09:01:05 davout: except it's probably pointless

09:01:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00041889 = 6.1786 BTC [+]

09:01:48 shinohai: M'kay

09:01:51 davout: also it's weird that this isn't some sort of constant

09:02:16 davout: if you need to change the code in two places to change a single scalar

09:02:26 mircea_popescu: there is no serious benefit offered by a key larger than 4096. for one thing, we don't currently have any reason to believe even 2k keys can actually be factored.

09:02:42 mircea_popescu: fore the other, at that level it would doubtlessly be cheaper to crack the symmetric cypher involved

09:03:01 davout: that remains to be demonstrated

09:03:36 davout: shinohai: and even if it was more secure you'd still message counter parties with keys that are smaller than yours

09:03:47 mircea_popescu: what, that blowfish or whatever dies before 4096 rsa ?

09:04:10 davout: isn't aes the symmetric cipher used by GPG?

09:04:29 mircea_popescu: you can pick out of a list.

09:05:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94417 @ 0.00041889 = 39.5503 BTC [+] {2}

09:05:27 davout: if the symmetric cipher security isn't based on the intractability of factoring large numbers you can't really tell which one will be broken before the other

09:06:42 shinohai: Thanks guy. So until such a time that RSA 4096 is broken, we're still quite safe.

09:08:12 davout: there's a difference between a key size being considered insecure and an algorithm being broken

09:08:39 mircea_popescu: quite.

09:08:42 davout: if we find an efficient algorithm for factoring large numbers we can also kiss RSA 8192 good bye

09:08:50 shinohai: O.o

09:09:06 mircea_popescu: that's basically the idea here. 4k is large enough, 8k doesn't improve anything.

09:09:11 davout: and hand around one-time pads at conferences

09:09:29 mircea_popescu: anyway, im off. laters!

09:10:12 shinohai: o/

09:10:41 shinohai: Thanks for your help again! I'm akways trying to learn and not make terrible noob mistakes.

09:10:48 shinohai: At least not constantly.

09:11:34 davout: shinohai: if you want to improve your crypto skills do the matasano challenges

09:11:45 davout: http://cryptopals.com/

09:11:46 assbot: The Matasano Crypto Challenges ... ( http://bit.ly/1dhNaYo )

09:12:25 shinohai: That looks interesting, bookmarked.

09:18:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52900 @ 0.00041746 = 22.0836 BTC [-]

09:24:37 shinohai: https://youtu.be/RJm3cRRvPoM <<< just wow.

09:24:38 assbot: Selling a 10 oz Silver Bar for $10 (When It's Worth $160) - EXPERIMENT - - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1fE7aWR )

09:25:17 shinohai: Why yes, you *can* have my cup of ramen noodles.

09:37:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 89 @ 0.01234224 = 1.0985 BTC [-] {5}

09:54:27 cazalla: shinohai, did ya know mark dice is A) major clickbait faggot B) goes around offering gold coins and silver bars really cheap but when someone tries to take him up on the offer, he refuses and just edits the footage so as not to include it

09:57:05 shinohai: I did not know that cazalla though he struck me as kind of a douche.

09:58:44 cazalla: he was a protege of alex jones but got all butt hurt and so pretty much copies everything that loon does

09:59:02 shinohai: If he reneged on said offer to me, I'd pribably go to jail for assault.

11:06:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14411 @ 0.00039477 = 5.689 BTC [-]

11:14:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62000 @ 0.00039483 = 24.4795 BTC [+]

11:20:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9256 @ 0.00039477 = 3.654 BTC [-]

11:31:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105850 @ 0.00039347 = 41.6488 BTC [-] {3}

11:58:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98852 @ 0.0003927 = 38.8192 BTC [-] {3}

12:03:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63750 @ 0.00039262 = 25.0295 BTC [-]

12:06:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33157 @ 0.00039483 = 13.0914 BTC [+]

12:17:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62400 @ 0.00039253 = 24.4939 BTC [-] {2}

12:18:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39752 @ 0.00039483 = 15.6953 BTC [+]

12:38:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00039483 = 4.659 BTC [+]

13:02:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27250 @ 0.00039483 = 10.7591 BTC [+]

13:02:22 shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/S4ndtvH.gif

13:02:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NexiCm )

13:03:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25006 @ 0.00039483 = 9.8731 BTC [+]

13:11:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25968 @ 0.0003924 = 10.1898 BTC [-] {2}

13:12:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7132 @ 0.00039157 = 2.7927 BTC [-] {2}

13:19:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7540 @ 0.00039146 = 2.9516 BTC [-]

13:21:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00039146 = 6.3808 BTC [-]

13:30:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16416 @ 0.00039483 = 6.4815 BTC [+]

13:51:39 punkman: !up Anduck

13:51:43 Anduck: thanks

13:51:52 Anduck: ok well, anyone know how to verify deedbot.org deeds?

13:52:02 Anduck: there's no documentation about that.

13:52:08 Anduck: no code either

13:52:39 punkman: I think you just gotta SHA256 the deed bundle and use that as the private exponent

13:53:31 Anduck: hmm, seems to work. thanks!

13:56:21 punkman: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102784968

13:56:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QREQB1 )

13:57:34 punkman: "Ades Stone talks about the Treasury's decision to put a woman on the $10 bill and why she thinks a woman should be on the $20, too."

13:59:49 punkman: "please show your support by joining our Virtual March to the White House, using the hashtag #DearMrPresident."

13:59:58 punkman: oh they got virtual marches nao

14:00:09 punkman: because too fat to walk

14:03:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00039146 = 10.2954 BTC [-]

14:11:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15915 @ 0.00039468 = 6.2813 BTC [+] {2}

14:20:13 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174811 << ya

14:20:13 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:11:52; williamdunne: Is this DPB? http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/f42abf63ce15666be179844d74acfa74.jpg

14:26:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00039146 = 11.0587 BTC [-]

14:28:52 chetty: scotuscare lives :/

14:33:31 shinohai: America the beautiful: http://www.biebuzz.com/2015/06/a-man-from-alabama-has-been-charged.html

14:33:32 assbot: A man from Alabama has been charged with sexually harassing a dog as he sought to get revenge on his wife who was giving it too much attention. | BieBuzz ... ( http://bit.ly/1BDxEkX )

14:36:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19863 @ 0.00039483 = 7.8425 BTC [+]

14:43:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00039483 = 8.1335 BTC [+]

14:44:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25669 @ 0.00039126 = 10.0433 BTC [-] {2}

15:25:27 decimation: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/25/us-usa-court-healthcare-idUSKBN0P51V220150625 < ""Congress passed the Affordable Care Act to improve health insurance markets, not to destroy them," Roberts wrote in the court's decision, adding that nationwide availability of the credits is required to "avoid the type of calamitous result that Congress plainly meant to avoid.""

15:25:28 assbot: U.S. Supreme Court upholds key Obamacare insurance subsidies | Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cw36Nc )

15:25:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00039083 = 4.8658 BTC [-]

15:25:37 decimation: people have hanged for the letter of the law

15:28:32 decimation: it's a colossal joke that this ruling gets handed down by the king's judges, in the 800th year of the magna carta - which itself was a joke and used as propaganda

15:28:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00039483 = 6.7713 BTC [+]

15:31:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16970 @ 0.00039517 = 6.706 BTC [+] {2}

15:32:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00039898 = 6.7827 BTC [+]

15:37:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00039956 = 4.555 BTC [+]

15:51:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.17692587 = 1.5923 BTC [-] {2}

15:52:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00040389 = 4.6447 BTC [+]

15:54:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.16749 = 1.5074 BTC [-] {3}

15:55:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.17692587 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {4}

16:02:09 fluffypony: mircea_popescu: https://imgur.com/a/WjQbx

16:02:10 assbot: Bitcoffee, Buenos Aires, Argentina - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1TP3dhJ )

16:13:48 shinohai: "El cafe que te vuelve inteligente" <<< I drink, I get smart

16:19:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00040389 = 8.0778 BTC [+]

16:48:28 mats: not quite

16:49:52 mircea_popescu: fluffypony i think i had a cup there with mthreat coupla weeks ago. coffee's not bad

16:50:13 fluffypony: very cool

16:51:57 mircea_popescu: silver down to 16 huh ? where is that guy came in here was an expert that hadn't been wrong in a decade knew for usre silver's going up ?

16:53:25 mats: ;;seen badon

16:53:26 gribble: badon was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <badon> hi punkman

16:57:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00039964 = 10.6704 BTC [-] {2}

16:58:52 mircea_popescu: i guess it's gonna go up eventually.

16:59:11 mircea_popescu: provided silverware comes into fashion with the chinese middle class or something

16:59:55 mircea_popescu: <shinohai> If he reneged on said offer to me, I'd pribably go to jail for assault. << over a hundred bux ? what are you, bugsy ?

17:01:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00039956 = 9.2698 BTC [-]

17:02:12 *: asciilifeform discovered, during unrelated research, that xilinx's 'coolrunner' cpld series - a very simple programmable logic gizmo with very homogeneous/regular physical structure - can hold a simple risc cpu...

17:02:47 mats: neat

17:03:07 asciilifeform: z80-style, lacking multiplier & divider

17:03:18 asciilifeform: and scarcely room for barrel shifter

17:03:23 asciilifeform: but cpu, yes

17:04:29 mircea_popescu: he has a point tho. anyone feel like writing up a documentation page for trinque to stick up there ?

17:04:56 mircea_popescu: <punkman> "Ades Stone talks about the Treasury's decision to put a woman on the $10 bill and why she thinks a woman should be on the $20, too." << "because they've not done anything worth the mention so perhaps if we do they start ?"

17:05:14 mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174811 << ya << shit, there go my ocr skills!

17:05:14 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 00:11:52; williamdunne: Is this DPB? http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/f42abf63ce15666be179844d74acfa74.jpg

17:07:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well z80 had a multiplier and iirc shifter

17:07:05 asciilifeform: mats: this is a pretty major result, imho. because the cpld products haven't changed in nearly a decade, and their internal structure is extremely regular (no special-purpose blocks)

17:07:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no multiplier

17:07:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: go, look

17:07:30 asciilifeform: and iirc had ordinary, not barrel, shifter

17:07:35 mircea_popescu: o.O

17:07:55 asciilifeform: (barrel shifter, named for the characteristic physical shape of the circuit on the die, allows shifting n bits in one clock cycle)

17:09:40 mircea_popescu: http://cpctech.cpc-live.com/docs/mult.html < right you are.

17:09:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAu3QK )

17:10:13 mircea_popescu: http://sgate.emt.bme.hu/patai/publications/z80guide/part4.html << considering all the work one has to go through to mult. i dunno, i recalled it had the instruction. i guess memory rots.

17:10:14 assbot: Z80 Assembly ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAu9YH )

17:10:59 asciilifeform: everyone forgets the gruntwork, remembers the joy, aha

17:12:29 mircea_popescu: lol

17:14:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.0004022 = 10.5376 BTC [+] {2}

17:16:34 asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla those headphones suck donkey ballz. sound like russian telephone.

17:16:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:16:55 mircea_popescu: russian chocolate good, russian telephone bad mkay!

17:17:11 shinohai: @ mircea_popescu truth and honesty have a far greater value than anything else. Besides,he has a face like Mark Zuckerberg that you just want to punch for no reason.

17:17:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'iphone' sounds similar

17:17:50 mircea_popescu: shinohai you mean a... pause... BABY FACE ???

17:18:01 shinohai: >.>

17:18:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23221 @ 0.00039895 = 9.264 BTC [-] {2}

17:18:58 asciilifeform: 'face like Mark Zuckerberg that you just want to punch for no reason' << we call this 'морда просит кирпича' (mug that begs for a brick)

17:19:15 shinohai: I like the Russian idiom

17:21:15 shinohai: My sides: http://redd.it/3b2ajg

17:21:17 assbot: VPS with GUI? : beermoney ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPf3IH )

17:21:41 mircea_popescu: "fata care cere palme" < face that demands slapping

17:22:04 asciilifeform: betcha even pygmies have this phrase

17:22:08 asciilifeform: even eskimo

17:22:15 shinohai: Is that Romanian ?

17:22:57 mircea_popescu: ~92 Online Moneymakers

17:23:08 mircea_popescu: heh. advertising, amirite ?

17:23:34 shinohai: I see little point in running a VPS to make $20 in Amazon giftcards

17:24:10 shinohai: But, to each his own.

17:28:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34421 @ 0.00039402 = 13.5626 BTC [-] {2}

17:29:59 kakobrekla: asciilifeform which, superlux ?

17:30:09 asciilifeform: aha

17:30:17 kakobrekla: amplified?

17:30:48 asciilifeform: sound card

17:30:55 kakobrekla: doh

17:31:02 asciilifeform: why?

17:31:08 asciilifeform: what does kakobrekla connect them to ?

17:31:34 kakobrekla: integrated amp

17:31:42 asciilifeform: integrated into what?

17:32:20 kakobrekla: its what amp+preamp is called, comes with volume control and input selector

17:32:46 asciilifeform: thing is, sound card is precisely how loud i want them

17:33:01 kakobrekla: its not about loudness

17:33:25 kakobrekla: this is what they are plugged into http://www.hifiengine.com/images/model/denon_pma-350se_stereo_integrated_amplifier.jpg

17:33:37 kakobrekla: bought it 10 years ago

17:33:41 asciilifeform: let me guess - they aren't standard impedance ?

17:33:51 kakobrekla: 64 iirc

17:34:01 kakobrekla: but thats china spec

17:34:05 kakobrekla: god knows really

17:34:32 kakobrekla: even so, the impedance is not fixed through the freq response

17:34:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00040389 = 2.7465 BTC [+]

17:34:37 kakobrekla: so whatever

17:34:40 asciilifeform: comparing with bog-standard 'bose qc15' which ~don't~ sound like russian telephone

17:34:46 asciilifeform: without any weird amp box

17:35:24 asciilifeform: everyone loves to piss on that vendor but who, precisely, else, makes usable headphone.

17:35:25 kakobrekla: that comparison i was making with sennheiser hd 595 and hd 650 was on 10k source+preamp

17:35:49 kakobrekla: overall superlux won.

17:36:32 asciilifeform: even the earpads on the 'superlux' feel terrible - no sweat pores; rather like a public bus seat

17:36:44 kakobrekla: yeah, i paid 7$ to get the 'velour' ones

17:36:48 kakobrekla: or whatever that thing is

17:37:14 kakobrekla: i dont know how some people dont mind that plastic, its horrible.

17:38:42 asciilifeform: i'm told that in usa folks in prison get headphones. and now i imagine i know what kind.

17:39:13 kakobrekla: anyway, if you have a chance to at least try them semi properly driven, please do.

17:39:39 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: is that a vacuum valve amp ?

17:39:43 kakobrekla: no

17:40:20 *: asciilifeform has a supply of vacuum valves, scavenged from ancient tv sets, has contemplated building amp. but this will happen - if happens - after the war.

17:40:41 shinohai: @ asciilifeform you can build a vaccum amp O.o

17:40:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14507 @ 0.00039022 = 5.6609 BTC [-] {2}

17:41:14 kakobrekla: its easier than doing it solid state

17:41:36 asciilifeform: would have to obtain sockets. and clean +100 dc..

17:41:39 shinohai: I used to play guitar. I never liked solid state amps

17:42:41 asciilifeform: http://lurkmore.to/%D0%A2%D1%91%D0%BF%D0%BB%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%BA << obligatory

17:42:43 assbot: Тёплый ламповый звук — Lurkmore ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPikaT )

17:42:47 asciilifeform: 'warm lamp sound'

17:42:49 asciilifeform: (meme)

17:43:12 asciilifeform: mega-popular taunt in ru sphere, applied to various 'voodoo'

17:43:46 kakobrekla: i have a tube powered dac but my main power amp sits at 40kg of solid state

17:44:01 asciilifeform: tube dac ?!

17:44:06 asciilifeform: as in, 16 bits of tube ?

17:44:12 kakobrekla: no

17:44:48 kakobrekla: its a sigma delta , yes not even r2r but theres a rectifier and two output tubes

17:45:06 asciilifeform: iirc someone even sells a pc mobo with lamps

17:45:10 asciilifeform: (for preamp)

17:45:33 asciilifeform: http://lurkmore.to/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Tubesound.jpg << there it is!

17:45:34 assbot: Файл:Tubesound.jpg — Lurkmore ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPiQFV )

17:46:05 *: shinohai wants to learn Russian so badly.

17:46:12 kakobrekla: heres a pic http://www.computeraudiophile.com/attachments/f8-general-forum/635d1338219955-logitech-transporter-back-good-modwrighttransporter1.jpg

17:46:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPiX4n )

17:46:34 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what are the antennae for ?

17:46:40 kakobrekla: wifi if you like

17:46:44 asciilifeform: l0l

17:47:11 kakobrekla: it streams flac from the server

17:47:49 kakobrekla: so thats bout 2k albums at the touch of a button, convenient.

17:48:03 kakobrekla: (as for the remote, you can actually ssh into it)

17:48:06 shinohai: I saw a Samsung tube amp wifi receiver for a home theater once

17:48:19 shinohai: I didn't know anyone still made them.

17:48:20 kakobrekla: most of the sw is opensource btw.

17:48:27 asciilifeform: most?!

17:49:13 kakobrekla: perhaps even all, havent checked.

17:49:22 kakobrekla: this runs on secondary network btw.

17:50:45 kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> most?! < quite sure you dont get specs for arm runnin inside it and so on

17:51:12 kakobrekla: so, secondary network or stick with vinyl

17:51:24 asciilifeform: shinohai: go, learn. whatchawaitingfor.

17:52:13 shinohai: Hopefully to find a native speaker, which is impossible in my small city.

17:52:44 shinohai: I have put out ads for 2 years offering to hire a language tutor.

17:53:07 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out, bitcoind 0.5.4 shitgnomatic edition existed.

17:53:07 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:53:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: i just don't get this 'let's use same name & versions as the fools did' thing. when we build martian city, will we name it 'washington' or 'pyongyang' ?! why?

17:55:13 mats: pimsleur, rosetta stone, duolingo. your tutors await.

18:01:35 kakobrekla: hehe the foundation has same name, wai not versions

18:02:25 *: kakobrekla just bitching at the unrecognizability of the f name

18:04:25 decimation: kakobrekla: so the sigma-delta is implented with tube or does it merely use tube as output amplifier?

18:04:41 decimation: or active filter?

18:05:20 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What about cutting off the leading zero. Then actual releases start at version 7 or 10, following in the tradition established by the early Linux Distros.

18:07:23 kakobrekla: decimation as far as i can tell tubes are there as output buffer, feeding of sigma delta dac

18:07:39 decimation: okay, interesting

18:07:42 kakobrekla: the device originally came w/o the tube, the mod was an aftermarket thing

18:08:06 kakobrekla: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/modwright3/transporter.html

18:08:07 assbot: 403 Forbidden ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPmdwv )

18:08:11 decimation: I think for most cases there is almost no difference

18:08:51 decimation: but if you are clipping or have momentarily large signal, the behavior in the 'non-linear' domain of the amplifier will be different between tubes and transistors

18:09:15 decimation: I've been told (haven't experimented) that tubs tend to create even harmonics while transistors odd, when driven to near saturation

18:09:30 kakobrekla: yeah theres a thing with harmonics

18:10:52 decimation: I suspect the difference would be most noticable if you were using it as a guitar amp and then driving the thing to distort

18:11:06 kakobrekla: since you mention ss, i tried solid state rectifier replacement instead of tube rectifier. it was a mega fail.

18:11:54 decimation: as in, power rectifier?

18:11:58 kakobrekla: yes!

18:12:08 decimation: umm, use diode?

18:12:41 kakobrekla: i assume thats in the ss replacement

18:12:48 kakobrekla: havent opened it tho

18:12:56 kakobrekla: i can now, since its crap.

18:13:13 decimation: how did it fail? buzzing or spurious signals?

18:14:22 kakobrekla: the sound became unpleasant to listen to, harsh, loss in detail and huge loss in soundstage

18:15:09 kakobrekla: i was expecting it to beat all other tube rectifiers i have

18:15:24 decimation: interesting

18:15:25 kakobrekla: because technically its better.

18:16:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00040397 = 7.1099 BTC [+] {2}

18:36:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00039667 = 9.9168 BTC [-]

18:47:53 mod6: asciilifeform: ... 0.5.4 shitgnomatic edition existed << that's weird. I did check the bitcoin git tag list, 0.5.4 isn't in there. Where do you see 0.5.4?

18:48:56 asciilifeform: mod6: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-notes/release-notes-0.5.4.md

18:48:57 assbot: bitcoin/release-notes-0.5.4.md at master · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmcECg )

18:49:52 mod6: huh

18:50:05 kakobrekla: early 2014. year and a half, feels like ages.

18:51:15 asciilifeform: 0.5.4 is much older

18:51:22 asciilifeform: 2014 is the timestamp on the ~dir~

18:51:37 kakobrekla: aha

18:51:46 asciilifeform: .. or is it

18:51:47 mod6: maybe they never actually created a release out of that? I see no tags for 0.5.4 or 0.5.5

18:51:48 asciilifeform: hm

18:52:59 mod6: I don't see it in "Releases" either, but there isn't a v0.5.3 in there either.

18:53:02 mod6: lol

18:53:11 mod6: oh yeah there is, nvm, im blind

18:53:25 mod6: it's out of order a bit

18:53:34 asciilifeform: https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/MPEx.co << new l0ltron

18:53:35 assbot: Wallet MPEx.co [WalletExplorer.com] ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmdcrU )

18:54:08 mod6: but yeah, i don't see any release artifact for v0.5.4 or v0.5.5

18:54:20 mod6: maybe it was planned, but then scrubbed and went straight to 6?

18:54:22 mod6: who knows.

19:00:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34050 @ 0.00039232 = 13.3585 BTC [-] {2}

19:03:14 asciilifeform: https://www.elliptic.co/anti-money-laundering << usgtron with elaborate graph ad

19:03:17 assbot: Anti-Money Laundering - Elliptic ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmebYZ )

19:03:46 asciilifeform: (needs js)

19:03:48 BingoBoingo: <mod6> maybe it was planned, but then scrubbed and went straight to 6? << They have been scrubbing the Github of old releases in recent months it seems

19:03:58 mod6: ah

19:05:44 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: perhaps walks around with big sign on ass saying "kick plz"

19:05:56 ben_vulpes: if in tank, nbd

19:06:06 ben_vulpes: if unarmored sapper, perhaps more of a big deal

19:06:19 thestringpuller: mod6: so jeezy is playing tonight downtown in celebration of the 10th anniversary of tm101. and i didn't know about it. i'm half tempted to get 500 cash and go find some ticket scalpers

19:06:31 asciilifeform: what's a tm101 ?

19:06:37 thestringpuller: !b 2

19:06:38 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2R9DXG8.txt )

19:08:03 asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6211 << also lulzy. phoundation regards 'buildable with classic gcc' as a bug !

19:08:04 assbot: RFC: switching to C++ 11 · Issue #6211 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmeItS )

19:08:29 asciilifeform: couldn't make this shit up if i tried.

19:08:32 mod6: asciilifeform: hey btw, I don't think that your patches { turdmeister-alert-snip && goodbye-win32 } ever made it into the email list.

19:08:52 mod6: thestringpuller: nice man! yeah, that'll definately be a cool show.

19:09:03 asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6320 << where they bury their shat-in pants

19:09:04 assbot: Wanted: Mar12Fork.dat · Issue #6320 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmePG7 )

19:09:17 asciilifeform: mod6: pretty sure it's in there

19:09:22 thestringpuller: mod6: make me feel better for likley not being able to see it

19:10:04 asciilifeform: mod6: you're right! those pre-date the turdatron working correctly

19:10:20 asciilifeform: mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html has the patches, and jurov has the sigs

19:10:21 assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmeYt6 )

19:10:30 asciilifeform: (and i think they're also in your auto-build thing)

19:11:18 asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/6091 << turdalicious bitcoind barfs on mips arch

19:11:19 assbot: bitcoind bus error on MIPS ci20 running debian · Issue #6091 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf43Q )

19:11:25 jurov: http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-25 re: today's morning log

19:11:26 assbot: Dilbert's App Stops Cyber Attack - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2015-06-25 | Dilbert by Scott Adams ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf1Fi )

19:11:30 mod6: asciilifeform: hmm, i can't find them. i've looked probably half-a-dozen times over the last 5 months. unless its contained in here: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2014-October/000001.html (attachment.bin)

19:11:31 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf2c6 )

19:11:49 *: asciilifeform has a mips ci20 but not tried it for bitcoin, considering its cost it is not a viable successor for 'pogo'

19:11:59 asciilifeform: mod6: see above

19:12:12 mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html has the patches, and jurov has the sigs <<< ooh, ok.

19:12:13 assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf6J8 )

19:12:15 jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html

19:12:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf6Zy )

19:12:22 asciilifeform: ^ there

19:12:26 jurov: ^ i see rm_rf_upnp there

19:12:44 asciilifeform: win32 - missing

19:12:46 asciilifeform: hm

19:12:51 mod6: yeah i added the tarballs right in website myself... just was curious that i never saw the emails.

19:13:10 kakobrekla: << usgtron with elaborate graph ad < meh i checked the yellow dots but there is everybody but bitbet. even jurovs coinroll is there

19:14:20 mod6: yeah, as far as the version number, in hindsight; going forward, we should probably keep all version bumps in it's own patch incase something changes. i.e. your latest IRC Full Demolition Patch.

19:14:38 asciilifeform: mod6: aha

19:14:41 asciilifeform: good point

19:14:59 asciilifeform: i'll sign an identical patch sans the bump if anyone needs this.

19:15:41 mod6: if we do anything else other than 5.4, that'd probably be good cause otherwise we'll hvae to patch your patch. :]

19:15:46 *: kakobrekla blames the css

19:16:32 mod6: <+thestringpuller> mod6: make me feel better for likley not being able to see it << just throw it on your mp3 player and start hustlin'

19:17:21 mod6: im about to turn it on myself. lol.

19:17:43 trinque: thestringpuller: now you've got me listening to young jeezy over here

19:18:44 kakobrekla: isnt that puberty music?

19:18:57 trinque: you're puberty music

19:19:06 trinque: (yeah, it probably is)

19:19:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36844 @ 0.00040177 = 14.8028 BTC [-] {2}

19:23:28 mod6: so we've talked about the versioning quite a bit since October. The deal is, if we talk about nothing other than just the format ( X.X.X.X ), we know that we'll have to change much more code than just one line to give it a new version number, as there is a bunch of stuff in there that is used to parse this value.

19:24:20 asciilifeform: imho it ought to be distinguishable from shitgnomatic bitcoin with the naked eye, incl. in survey charts like the one linked a few days ago

19:24:22 mod6: And if we wanna call it version then there was some sort of concerns here surrounding weather or not we'd be able to connect to other nodes. I'd have to go back and look and dig through the code a bit though, I can't recall it all off hand.

19:24:30 asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu seems to disagree. ask'im why

19:25:15 mod6: well, my concerns were of a technical nature anyway.

19:26:32 mod6: we could try some other version like and see what happens i guess.

19:26:42 mod6: I don't think that's ever been attempted iirc.

19:26:42 asciilifeform: worth a test

19:27:32 asciilifeform: unrelated: anybody try capping mempool size ?

19:27:34 thestringpuller: mod6: thank you! tm101 is blastin in my headphones

19:27:46 mod6: yeeeeeah

19:27:56 asciilifeform: afaik this is the last 'blank cheque' left in the skull'n'crossbones version of therealbitcoin

19:28:00 asciilifeform: it needs to go.

19:28:32 asciilifeform: unbounded data structure on a finite machine is retarded

19:28:34 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: but what about the instant stuff like green addres?!?!?!?

19:28:36 asciilifeform: (news at 11!)

19:29:16 asciilifeform: waiwut

19:29:29 asciilifeform: the ancient discredited retardation?

19:29:33 asciilifeform: or some other 'green address'

19:30:01 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: how would you cap it? anything below some transaction fee is purged from mempool when gets greater than N-mb?

19:30:09 mod6: <+asciilifeform> unrelated: anybody try capping mempool size ? << not me yet. there's a laundry list of stuff to get through yet.

19:30:13 mod6: this is a good idea though.

19:30:27 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: right now it is 'capped' by the ram installed on your box...

19:30:34 asciilifeform: this is lunacy

19:30:44 mod6: im currenty building a new AMI for gentoo so I/we can test wtf is going on in there with gcc/uclibc. I should be done with that in a few hours.

19:30:58 thestringpuller: i know but how would mempool be effectively capped so nodes don't purge "important" tx's if people spam network

19:31:16 mod6: Then I'm gonna need to cut away from working on that on Saturday afternoonish at the latest to work on the SoBA -- which is looking to be lengthy for this month.

19:31:43 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: shooting the tx orphanage in the head rid us of the most obvious spam vector

19:31:51 asciilifeform: a sp4mz0r would have to spam with ~realistic~ tx

19:31:59 asciilifeform: that is, valid sig, and depending on existing block

19:32:45 asciilifeform: as i understand, they'd more or less have to be attempted doublespends

19:33:34 asciilifeform: it is important to remember that there is no 'important' tx from the point of view of the network

19:33:38 asciilifeform: only valid and invalid

19:33:39 *: mircea_popescu waves

19:33:45 mircea_popescu: o hai briggle!

19:34:19 asciilifeform: there he is.

19:35:58 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: even valid transaction can approach infinity

19:36:18 mircea_popescu: <shinohai> Hopefully to find a native speaker, which is impossible in my small city. << so buy a bride. ukr won't be cheap much longer.

19:36:32 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out, bitcoind 0.5.4 shitgnomatic edition existed. << makes exactly 0 difference.

19:36:48 mircea_popescu: and "washington" or "pyongyang" are NOT NUMBERS.

19:36:57 mircea_popescu: four followds three. this is not a function of anyone's idiocy.

19:37:23 mircea_popescu: will you propose ~WE~ change the versioning number when (not if) some OTHER shitgnomes release a faux version downstream ?

19:37:24 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what means 'approach infinity' ? if tx is valid, nondoublespent, and has adequate fee, it is 'every bit as tx' as yours or mine

19:37:49 mircea_popescu: do you expect torvalds to consider what random shitforbrains released as "linux kernel" and go "hey guise we can't use version x.x, anon shitforbrains used it fiorst!!11" ?

19:37:58 mircea_popescu: we.do.not.care. this is because they.do.not.exist.

19:38:19 mircea_popescu: there has been no version of bitcoin released past 0.5.3 ; we are releasing the first one. it's 0.5.4

19:38:22 mircea_popescu: that's all there is to it.

19:38:43 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: if the valid tx's submitted to the network approach a large number that is greater than modest machine's memory capacicty

19:38:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i grasp the logic, but notice that we sit in the gigantic spamatronic shadow of the phoundation. if nobody gives a fuck, there isn't much else to be said about this

19:38:57 thestringpuller: which one's get purged?

19:39:11 mircea_popescu: i think you're not particularly qualified to make this call. what shadow ?

19:39:21 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the present situation is that they ~all~ 'get purged' when your box goes down.

19:39:37 mircea_popescu: is this some sort of "consensus" that they have or something ? again ?

19:39:51 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this i understand. my asking is what are you proposing before machine goes down?

19:39:54 mircea_popescu: plox no more memory holing kthx.

19:39:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did say 'spamatronic' - i.e. search engine crud.

19:40:13 mircea_popescu: looky here : they live in my shadow.

19:40:24 mircea_popescu: this is an experimentally verified fact.

19:40:38 *: asciilifeform not professional spamatronicist, cannot say whether this makes a difference one way or another

19:41:22 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i don't have a specific proposal except that the machine ~must not go down~

19:41:30 asciilifeform: that scenario is undesirable regardless of what else.

19:41:53 mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: What about cutting off the leading zero. Then actual releases start at version 7 or 10, following in the tradition established by the early Linux Distros. << the problem is that the implication of having a 1 leading version (ie, mature product) is laughable. we don't. hopefully one day we will, but the current offering is not it.

19:42:22 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Mature version can start at 10.

19:42:59 *: asciilifeform grasps mircea_popescu's implication that 'the only winning move' in the decimal-point chase game with shitgnomes is 'not to play'

19:43:23 mircea_popescu: precisely.

19:44:07 mircea_popescu: more deeply : there is exactly ZERO derivative work implied in the bitcoin foundation's releases. we don't use anything they did, for the explicit reason that everything they did is shit, with the furter implication that every man who ever worked for them WASTED THEIR LIFE.

19:44:15 mircea_popescu: this is very important to ber there, plainly spelled out.

19:44:24 asciilifeform: back to the more interesting point, we still have an unbounded data structure in there...

19:44:43 mircea_popescu: because people must at some point come to comprehend that they are responsible , at the very least for their own lives, and that the choices they make come with consequences, and the consequences will NOT negotiate.

19:44:52 mircea_popescu: so no, jwh "i just want to contribute" doth not work irl.

19:47:57 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/06/pressure-in-the-united-states-mounts-to-ban-symbols-of-rebellion-against-federal-government/

19:47:58 assbot: Pressure in the United States Mounts to Ban Symbols of Rebellion Against Federal Government | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAbORw )

19:48:08 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what i was trying to get across earlier is that the very concept of 'mempool spam' is presently undefined

19:48:17 asciilifeform: who says what tx is 'spam'? god ?

19:49:23 mircea_popescu: actually a switch to create "minimally acceptable /kb subsidy" as a precondition of taking tx into mempool might be useful.

19:49:48 mircea_popescu: even better if the behaviour is dynamic (ie, the minimum only kicks in if the mempool is over 1mb, and selects for optimal fill)

19:50:44 asciilifeform: l0l, before long folks start asking for mempool inclusion fee, for self !?

19:50:48 asciilifeform: (vs to miner)

19:50:48 mircea_popescu: this will give node operators an incentive to present good pools to the network.

19:50:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34650 @ 0.00038998 = 13.5128 BTC [-] {2}

19:51:10 mircea_popescu: there has to be some import of market into mempool functioning.

19:51:16 asciilifeform: this sorta turns mempool into even more of a logical albatross than it already is

19:51:23 mircea_popescu: myeah.

19:51:32 asciilifeform: (why not route tx straight to miners then. why have two classes of mining..?)

19:51:38 mircea_popescu: dude...

19:52:05 mircea_popescu: ask me more questions about what this guy did in his basement. i enjoy the feelings of impotent frustration.

19:52:11 asciilifeform: l0lzies

19:52:42 mircea_popescu: anyway. i think that'd be actually +ev, but just a thought.

19:53:37 asciilifeform: perhaps this will wait for the 'sanity hardfork' of the distant fyootoor.

19:53:46 mircea_popescu: yeh

19:54:17 asciilifeform: but afaik turdmeisters are already experimenting with connecting sewage pipes directly to the mempool

19:54:20 asciilifeform: 'to see what happenz'

19:54:57 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm hearing that argument can actually be had in favour of the mempool/minerpool layered implementation.

19:55:21 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but afaik turdmeisters are already experimenting with connecting sewage pipes directly to the mempool << I think one of the earliest XT "selling points" by Hearnia was this for some SpamFunder called "Lighthouse"

19:55:31 mircea_popescu: specifically : that at the very least it should not be possible for one to fire a missile at any place that scarfs up txn or knows about them and hit a miner.

19:55:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this has a bit of a recursion problem: how does mempool operator know that he is being paid ?

19:55:46 mircea_popescu: he doesn't.

19:55:48 asciilifeform: the whole notion of a payment is defined in reference to blockchain

19:55:52 mircea_popescu: yes.

19:56:53 asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand, 'fee for mempool inclusion' is... an epicycle.

19:57:00 asciilifeform: in the classical sense.

19:57:38 asciilifeform: how does the operator determine anything whatsoever re: the validity of 'mempool fee' addressed to him ?

19:58:06 asciilifeform: or is he 'running a tab' for folks, and relying on a wotnet ?

19:58:10 asciilifeform: (somehow bolted on)

19:58:30 mircea_popescu: in this way : some mempools, by virtue of being well curated, get to talk first to miners.

19:58:39 mircea_popescu: inclusion in one of these is valuable, and so a private deal can be had.

19:58:40 asciilifeform: so ^ then.

19:58:52 mircea_popescu: allows mempools to be run like a service, much like say a website works.

19:59:02 mircea_popescu: right.

19:59:29 asciilifeform: as i understand, we already have a 'bezzle' in the net - the unmetered resource, 'blank cheque,' of the mempools. as all 'meat in the sun without flies', it is a very ephemeral thing

19:59:29 scoopbot_revived: Eulora third event - Sunday, June 28th http://fraudsters.com/2015/eulora-third-event-sunday-june-28th/

19:59:41 asciilifeform: somehow - it will end.

20:00:03 mircea_popescu: i've been saying for years it's the one vulnerability.

20:00:15 mircea_popescu: no big surprise gavin & gang are attacking it while claiming it';s all about anything else.

20:00:15 asciilifeform: can end in some 'dirty' equilibrium, where everybody's living room is filled to capacity with precisely how many rabid weasels it can hold,

20:00:19 asciilifeform: or somewhere more 'clean.'

20:00:25 asciilifeform: i'd prefer 'clean.'

20:00:29 mircea_popescu: it's not. they want to shoot it in the neck.

20:02:07 asciilifeform: it's the one ~protocol~ vuln, yes

20:02:21 asciilifeform: there are the mechanics vulns of the shit-stack

20:02:32 asciilifeform: (needs no elaboration, everyone here knows more than ever wanted to)

20:03:21 mircea_popescu: myeah.

20:04:47 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6hr99QPZ71rozn8uo1_1280.jpg << wut da fuck nigga!!!1

20:04:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAei2k )

20:05:04 asciilifeform: mmmhhhmphhfm

20:05:26 shinohai: I imagine there is an unseen strapon somewhere in that image.

20:07:39 asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/06/pressure-in-the-united-states-mounts-to-ban-symbols-of-rebellion-against-federal-government << is pretty plainly a 'kick the dog till it bites, then shoot it' gambit on usg's part

20:07:40 assbot: Pressure in the United States Mounts to Ban Symbols of Rebellion Against Federal Government | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAeJJW )

20:07:40 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:08:00 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gotta document the kick

20:08:13 mircea_popescu: dood gets it.

20:08:23 mircea_popescu: yeah, you gotta document the kick.

20:08:30 mircea_popescu: it's our own "kick the usg till it bites, then shoot it" gambit.

20:08:57 mircea_popescu: Recently agitators in the United States along with officials in various government capacities have been exploiting a recent minor tragedy << would work without the 2nd recent too

20:09:13 asciilifeform: the 'kick' has been in continuous progression since at least 'bloody kansas incident'

20:09:16 asciilifeform: if not earlier

20:09:30 asciilifeform: and cw1 was the first shot

20:09:43 asciilifeform: dog - still alive (or dogcatcher suspects at any rate)

20:09:48 asciilifeform: 2nd shot probably soon.

20:10:18 asciilifeform: (yes, i favour 'cw1', like ww1. the latter had to wait for 'ww2', but why wait to use correct term?)

20:10:20 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo can you still buy guy fawkes masks ?

20:10:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was gonna say "why not take it back to civil war" to you, but then i realised what cw1 was.

20:10:49 asciilifeform: aha.

20:11:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00039201 = 6.1938 BTC [+]

20:12:22 mircea_popescu: Some unnamed genius at the company feels << this is the important part. do not allow the fucktard remain anonymous.

20:12:28 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo call up the corp, ask who did it ?

20:12:37 mircea_popescu: ask who doesn't want to tell you, why don't they want to tell you ?

20:12:39 mircea_popescu: put names in there.

20:12:56 mircea_popescu: always put names in there.

20:13:10 mircea_popescu: this isn't about principles. this is about particular morons being particularly moronic. they are personally responsible.

20:13:24 mircea_popescu: cut their vague generalities straight from under them.

20:14:51 trinque: "who in his manifest" << manifesto

20:15:27 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo can you still buy guy fawkes masks ? << Yes

20:15:27 trinque: "mantel" << mantle

20:15:43 shinohai: http://toucharcade.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-confederate-flag/

20:15:45 assbot: Apple Removes All American Civil War Games From the App Store Because of the Confederate Flag | Touch Arcade ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAgs22 )

20:16:45 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> Some unnamed genius at the company feels << this is the important part. do not allow the fucktard remain anonymous. << will search. Likely committee action. Just quoting Cooter's thoughts on the action there

20:17:19 mircea_popescu: name the committee, as individuals.

20:17:27 trinque: who needs govt force when american companies are so happy to provide it on the govt's behalf

20:17:38 mircea_popescu: the point is to allow no quarter. there is no excuse. joint and several liability exists to deal with exactly this sort of situation.

20:17:47 mircea_popescu: a committee did it ? you each did it, individually, the full thing.

20:17:48 mircea_popescu: bang.

20:17:57 asciilifeform: shinohai: before long, u.s. civil war material will look like german edition of 'wolfenstein'

20:18:00 mircea_popescu: trinque "american companies" are exactly government entitites.

20:18:07 asciilifeform: covered in mysterious ahistorical blobs

20:18:11 trinque: mircea_popescu: yes, I see your point

20:19:03 mircea_popescu: and so no. an "american company" did it ? obama did it.

20:19:04 shinohai: So dumb. If only history had a blockchain.

20:19:09 mircea_popescu: if you have a company it's his company.

20:19:09 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> shinohai: before long, u.s. civil war material will look like german edition of 'wolfenstein' << Already happening in Apple App store

20:19:27 asciilifeform: can't wait to see what the 'new flag' looks like.

20:19:31 asciilifeform: and when ~it~ banned.

20:19:40 mircea_popescu: no new flags.

20:19:42 mircea_popescu: no new anything.

20:20:05 asciilifeform: http://www.nag.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/28-09-Image-Joined.jpg

20:20:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhpY0 )

20:20:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38491 @ 0.00040443 = 15.5669 BTC [+]

20:20:38 asciilifeform: http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/21328-return-to-castle-wolfenstein-windows-screenshot-a-modified.jpg

20:20:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhye2 )

20:21:13 BingoBoingo: new flag looks like https://33.media.tumblr.com/f5814086bf70d5022dc23dbf68159f81/tumblr_inline_naq2upNSfM1sxlrl8.jpg

20:21:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhH1d )

20:21:20 shinohai: https://transfer.sh/1gKOaO/wtfjew.png

20:21:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RAhHOC )

20:30:49 mircea_popescu: heh. the flags are either the imperial gold with whatever schmuck's escutcheon (i suppose fried chicken and watermelon for the current holder ?) or else the guelph red, or white, or blue, with the horse, the tower, the you name it.

20:32:16 BingoBoingo: replace the stars on the current banner with little watermelons, repatern the stripes like a KFC bucket

20:33:15 chetty: ooo I want one

20:41:18 mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5za875MVy1r6mifwo1_1280.jpg

20:41:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TPIzOr )

20:41:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65050 @ 0.0003992 = 25.968 BTC [-] {2}

20:48:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25943 @ 0.00039139 = 10.1538 BTC [-] {2}

20:58:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28672 @ 0.00038962 = 11.1712 BTC [-]

21:00:15 mircea_popescu: "In addition to the embarrassment of having their bro-y, bitchin? orgy leaked online?you can view uncensored portions below?Pearson (who is also the manager?s son), Hopper and Smith can be heard making at least one racially insensitive remark toward the three Thai girls involved with the players."

21:00:21 mircea_popescu: bwahahaha. racially insensitive eh ?

21:00:51 shinohai: @ mircea_popescu if I find a Russian bride in the form of that pic you just posted, I would be a very happy person indeed.

21:01:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00038962 = 10.9873 BTC [-]

21:02:26 kakobrekla: Russian bride < who gets paid in that deal?

21:11:07 mircea_popescu: good q huh.

21:11:37 mircea_popescu: but let's instead count ribs. http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3ofp6umz41r05yn1o1_1280.jpg

21:11:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEJZ8I )

21:16:10 cazalla: http://bangordailynews.com/2015/06/25/news/nation/fbi-rounds-up-suspected-lone-wolves/

21:16:11 assbot: FBI rounds up suspected lone wolves — Nation — Bangor Daily News — BDN Maine ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEKKhY )

21:18:48 shinohai: @ cazalla so they can attempt to turn them into their own assets

21:21:51 trinque: so this is NSA wiretapping plus FBI parallel construction plus arresting based on thoughtcrime alone

21:21:53 mircea_popescu: "The FBI has been rounding up more potential ?lone wolf? terrorists, congressional leaders and the Justice Department say, in response to the perception of a mounting threat of domestic attacks inspired by the Islamic State."

21:21:55 trinque: nice. that's progress.

21:22:04 mircea_popescu: check it out, hanbot's thesis is well confirmed... by the wolf's own mouth.

21:22:31 mircea_popescu: islamic state my foot. your own people hate you because you're hateful, contemptible twerps, yo. nothing isis can or could do has anything in there.

21:23:16 mircea_popescu: The recent arrests are ?an indication that the increased number of threads of threats ? is at the highest level that most of us have seen since 9/11,? Chairman Richard Burr of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence told us in an interview.

21:23:17 mircea_popescu: His comments track with those of his House counterpart Devin Nunes, who said earlier this week that the country is at a higher risk of terrorism than ever before.

21:23:35 mircea_popescu: that's ok. it'll be a lot worse next year. and the next and the next, and who knows, maybe it makes it till 2020 even.

21:23:37 mircea_popescu: seems dubious.

21:25:57 mircea_popescu: ?There are more of these guys to follow than we can possibly follow,? Sen. Lindsey Graham told us. ?It?s just a matter of time before one of them penetrates the net.?

21:25:59 mircea_popescu: aaaite.

21:26:10 mircea_popescu: what now asciilifeform ? lizards lying about how fucked they are ?

21:31:13 asciilifeform: sop, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1170057

21:31:13 assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 22:46:02; asciilifeform: i will describe, for the benefit of n00bz, the typical career path of 'let's resist usg through action' in usgland: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044

21:32:52 trinque: there are eventually not going to be enough cops to deal with the number of people tired of their shitty lives.

21:32:54 asciilifeform: the 'your own people hate you' thing isn't false, as such, but a newspiece about the arrest of one Abdul Rahman is not really proof of this

21:33:09 trinque: and sometime after that occurs they'll realize this is the case

21:33:16 asciilifeform: trinque: so far this is like proton decay

21:33:35 *: asciilifeform waits

21:34:41 trinque: I wouldn't expect that any rival political thing would form among the orcs going apeshit

21:34:55 trinque: just that them doing so might open doors for others

21:35:25 asciilifeform: i can buy an argument re: joe stack et al., but these schmucks are products of usg entrapment program and are really best understood through 'psychiatric' lens, rather than criminalistic much less 'revolutionary'

21:35:52 trinque: sure, I just see 'em all as things which increase the load average of the state

21:36:30 asciilifeform: the folks described in the linked piece are 'load on the state' in strictly the same sense as the traditional '4th of july' fireworks display.

21:40:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they REPORT the guy by that name.

21:40:34 mircea_popescu: so they can decry the racism of it. bla bla.

21:40:38 mircea_popescu: look at the unreported names.

21:40:50 asciilifeform: my chronoscope's broken

21:40:55 asciilifeform: where can i see the unreported names.

21:41:01 mircea_popescu: on qntra.

21:41:26 asciilifeform: tomorrow's ?

21:41:33 mircea_popescu: erryday's!!11

21:41:55 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/06/attack-on-dallas-pd-headquarters-another-drop-in-bucket-of-frustrated-americans/ << liek. but yes, i'm sure tomorrow's also.

21:41:56 assbot: Attack on Dallas PD Headquarters: Another Drop in Bucket of Frustrated Americans | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkNsKW )

21:42:02 cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176740 <<< how would a ban on that stop anything? ya just make your own at home http://i.imgur.com/SJGNdld.jpg

21:42:02 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 20:10:20; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo can you still buy guy fawkes masks ?

21:42:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NkNvGG )

21:42:13 mod6: finally. new AMI created. that only took ... you don't wanna know.

21:42:22 mircea_popescu: kidney ?

21:42:28 trinque: cazalla: bahaha

21:42:30 asciilifeform: what's an ami

21:42:40 mod6: amazon image.

21:42:47 asciilifeform: ah

21:43:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the proposition that joe stack is not revolutionary seems alike the proposition that you're innocent of math.

21:43:22 mircea_popescu: he actually says the words.

21:43:24 mod6: so i create gentoo via stage3 whole process in an instance, then have to create snapshot & make image from snapshot. deploy new instance from image.

21:43:25 asciilifeform: l0l

21:44:01 *: asciilifeform reread stack's death letter, grants that 'revolutionary' - but a weirdo softy who doesn't like killing

21:44:03 mircea_popescu: what, this is an item accidentally shaped like a tree that coincidentally drops plantains to the ground, but not for this reason a plantain tree ?

21:44:15 mircea_popescu: revolutionaries are generally like that in their writing.

21:44:19 mircea_popescu: see the french.

21:44:34 asciilifeform: no i meant the waiting-until-place-is-empty part

21:44:42 asciilifeform: he could've easily burned it down full ?

21:45:02 mircea_popescu: did i ever tell you the story about the blue collar guy who had caritas tickets ?

21:45:07 asciilifeform: ?

21:45:20 trinque: asciilifeform: at least among my meatwot the building being empty played much better

21:45:22 trinque: than the alternative

21:45:30 mircea_popescu: so this one guy, working in a furniture shop, had played this romanian ponzi scheme. early. and kept putting it all in.

21:45:46 mircea_popescu: so he had an immense sum to pick up, and he was scheduled to do so a friday evening.

21:45:56 mircea_popescu: so he asked his workshop boss to let him go to THE STATIUM

21:46:06 mircea_popescu: where he'd have had to wheelbarrow his cash home after being in line for hours.

21:46:10 mircea_popescu: boss wouldn't hear of it

21:46:12 mircea_popescu: man didn't go

21:46:18 mircea_popescu: that saturday morning the thing collapsed.

21:46:39 asciilifeform: happens

21:46:43 mircea_popescu: to joe stacks.

21:47:01 asciilifeform: did he spin around with machine gun ?

21:47:04 mircea_popescu: was he by this token "not minded to be rich" ?

21:47:23 mircea_popescu: simple people miss their funerals because some workshop boss didn't let them off. way the world works.

21:47:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-02-2015#1005563 << see also.

21:47:45 assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 23:43:58; asciilifeform: winnie pooh walks into a butcher's shop, asks 'got mortadella' ? answer, 'sure' winnie pooh draws a submachinegun and spins round, round, round with it, mowing down everything that moves: 'for piiigleet!'

21:47:49 mircea_popescu: there's more twu wuv crushed under the trainwheels of normal life than under anything else.

21:47:58 mircea_popescu: lmao

21:48:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11056 @ 0.0004035 = 4.4611 BTC [+]

21:51:12 asciilifeform: the story of the 'lottery ticket lost in the wash' is cross cultural to schmucks of every country

21:52:11 asciilifeform: iirc there is some lawsuit in usa every day re: one thing or another to do with lottery tickets allegedly misappropriated, stolen, 'borrowed', etc

21:52:43 mircea_popescu: aha

21:53:33 asciilifeform: i was never able to understand why these folks thought they were only playing in one lottery

21:53:44 asciilifeform: as opposed to several, including the do-i-cash-this-ticket-in-time one

21:53:53 asciilifeform: the do-i-get-hit-by-asteroid lottery, etc

21:54:22 asciilifeform: some of these are even spiffier than the idiot numbers game because i don't have to pay for the ticket!11

21:54:30 mircea_popescu: lol

21:54:31 asciilifeform: can get my asteroid - for phree.

21:55:58 asciilifeform: i remember a course i had to do at uni, where we were shown various results re: the misconceptions about mechanics common among small children.

21:56:13 asciilifeform: in particular, how they will decide that what they cannot see, for whatever reason, isn't there

21:56:47 asciilifeform: as in, pull down a curtain and literally 'it vanished'

21:57:18 asciilifeform: taken with the usual grain of strychnine with which one eats american academe, this is applicable

22:00:03 asciilifeform: phun phakt: http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/articleview.php?item=529 << monsanto made... led.

22:00:05 assbot: The Vintage Technology Association - Monsanto MV2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSaYVa )

22:00:34 asciilifeform: among the first!

22:00:43 asciilifeform: http://www.datamath.org/Display/Monsanto.htm

22:00:44 assbot: DATAMATH ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSb1jS )

22:00:52 asciilifeform: when do ~we~ make led ?

22:01:16 mircea_popescu: srsly.

22:01:27 asciilifeform: forget cpu. try led.

22:02:04 asciilifeform: 'This effort didn't go very far at first, because Monsanto's marketing department reported that the only color customers wanted was red. Customers used red displays for calculators, so their only concern was getting cheaper LEDs. Marketing never considered other LED applications. Its conclusion that red was the only color wanted may have stemmed from asking the wrong question or asking the wrong people.'

22:02:07 asciilifeform: lulzy.

22:04:33 scoopbot_revived: Bryan Micon Seals The Deal http://qntra.net/2015/06/bryan-micon-seals-the-deal/

22:06:12 asciilifeform: 3 btc?!

22:06:13 asciilifeform: lol

22:07:01 kakobrekla: dont forget the 900bux

22:07:22 asciilifeform: and the arse hymen.

22:08:47 trinque: what is this forfeitting his computers nonsense?

22:09:07 trinque: mild inconvenience at best

22:09:54 trinque: heh probably to search 'em for btc privkeys

22:09:56 kakobrekla: im surprised no jail time

22:10:48 mircea_popescu: eh he's prolly gonna show up having an ugrent business proposal to discuss in short order.

22:11:13 mircea_popescu: the us dept of derp is short on money and understaffed, so it figures hey, what's this shikrashka thing alf keeps mentioning ?

22:13:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17426 @ 0.0004035 = 7.0314 BTC [+]

22:24:50 williamdunne: kakobrekla: And the $25,000

22:30:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18550 @ 0.00040174 = 7.4523 BTC [-] {3}

22:39:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00040541 = 7.7839 BTC [+]

22:51:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14471 @ 0.00039379 = 5.6985 BTC [-]

22:54:33 mircea_popescu: and in other news, all's there but the vending machine. http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0qh7fKyZW1qgvnq9o1_1280.jpg

22:54:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAR325 )

22:56:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6806 @ 0.00039379 = 2.6801 BTC [-]

22:57:05 decimation: "lone wolf terrorists" are just another lame excuse for "keep funding us or else"

23:02:23 mircea_popescu: "lone wolf terrorists" have a pretty decent claim to getting an ex-usg civil servant as chattel slave once the thing's done.

23:03:50 mircea_popescu: how did the theory go, "bureaucrats are genetically inferior and morally stunted, and so the best thing for their sake is having them live out their lives as slaves for actual humans"

23:06:35 williamdunne: How many slaves are reserved for #b-a?

23:07:25 *: mircea_popescu would not actually want to be saddled with one of those idiots.

23:08:48 cazalla: mircea_popescu, is this just a beat up by norton or is ramnicu valcea really some leet town?

23:08:54 cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teg-0Kz_8Q

23:08:55 assbot: In Search of The Most Dangerous Town on the Internet [Official Trailer] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hit7qD )

23:09:32 mircea_popescu: cazalla nonsense. there was a high concentration of kids fucking up windows boxen in that town, a decade ago.

23:10:14 mircea_popescu: it was never truly mention-worthy, but some english speaking journo in search of something to write about it wrote that, and well, ever since it's been some sort of english language accepted truth.

23:10:41 BingoBoingo: Ah, I thought you were going to say they all made fortunes and move to St. Kitts

23:11:27 trinque: hack nasa?!

23:11:31 mircea_popescu: otherwise, it's a rural townlet on par with say dublin, ohio.

23:11:49 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you recall the story of one guccifer, uneployed cab driver fucking around in internet cafes ?

23:11:52 mircea_popescu: that, 99%.

23:11:57 cazalla: anyway, full doco if anyone is interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_XI4MM6QI (watching but i expect this to be similar to real estate seminar where norton will hit me up to buy some anti-virus shit at the end of the film)

23:11:58 assbot: In Search of The Most Dangerous Town On the Internet [Official Documentary] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GARKs5 )

23:13:44 mircea_popescu: this sort of crap is unavoidable when doing "reporting". paris was never as fashionable as usians thought.

23:15:15 mircea_popescu: anyway, doing violence to the poorly secured chumpnet is a rite of passage for most of the not-dumb youth of the third world, you must appreciate. in luxor, a tiny town on the valley of the nile, the intellectual elite of boyhood gathered around two beat up dexktops and an acoustic modem trying the same thing.

23:15:27 mircea_popescu: romania's not been much of this for at least 10 years by noiw.

23:19:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176915 << yes!!

23:19:49 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 22:54:33; mircea_popescu: and in other news, all's there but the vending machine. http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0qh7fKyZW1qgvnq9o1_1280.jpg

23:19:52 asciilifeform: l0l!

23:21:43 *: asciilifeform absorbed first gibblets of .ro during a tour of duty as professional sp4mz0r hunter

23:22:24 asciilifeform: perhaps 'hunt' is wrong term

23:22:40 asciilifeform: we never removed them from the wild.

23:25:05 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176909 << шаражка only makes sense if you have a korolev to put in it.

23:25:05 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 22:11:13; mircea_popescu: the us dept of derp is short on money and understaffed, so it figures hey, what's this shikrashka thing alf keeps mentioning ?

23:25:43 asciilifeform: invented, incidentally, nowhere near ru

23:25:49 asciilifeform: but in venice. late 13th c.

23:26:02 asciilifeform: when they sat all the glassblowers down in an island

23:26:17 asciilifeform: blow as much glass as you like. leave? nope.

23:33:03 cazalla: mmm yup, the doco is pretty much an advertisement for norton "As a leader in storytelling for Symantec's global brands, my main goal is to produce proactive, intelligent content that speaks to and engages an audience, and showcases the value of the company's exceptional brilliance in cyber security innovation." Solange Deschatres

23:33:13 asciilifeform: run moar winblowz.

23:36:12 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1176919 << you'd want those in your house ?!

23:36:12 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 23:02:23; mircea_popescu: "lone wolf terrorists" have a pretty decent claim to getting an ex-usg civil servant as chattel slave once the thing's done.

23:38:00 asciilifeform: though they'd work quite well in the car. as seat covers.

23:45:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.0003978 = 5.9272 BTC [+] {2}

23:50:15 BingoBoingo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSUW-Z_Cnc0

23:50:16 assbot: Bearforce1 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GvhXcu )

23:51:03 BingoBoingo: !up SuchWow

23:52:02 SuchWow: danke