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Transcript for 25-12-2015, 772 lines:

00:12:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.00050635 = 26.5834 BTC [-]

00:15:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28936 @ 0.00050635 = 14.6517 BTC [-]

00:23:54 thestringpuller: mod6: was this started from a /clean/ env or is this trying to load up a blockchain from christmas past? << I completely nuked the datadir .bitcoin with rm -rf *; whenever I do an rpc call after the thing _tries_ to spin up, it borks. crashes without anything except what was in the db.log. I'm almost certain it's an issue with bdb because no blocks are downloaded or anything. cause it connects to the node I specify gets basic

00:29:50 ben_vulpes: yes but /have you run it under gdb/

00:30:17 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re handwriting, it is a mystery for the ageists

00:30:31 asciilifeform: waiwut

00:31:12 ben_vulpes: ages, ageists, women in tech

00:31:21 ben_vulpes: oddball pun

00:31:34 asciilifeform: it is beyond my puny brain

00:31:44 *: ben_vulpes nods in appreciation

00:31:45 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes has actual chix in his shop'o'horrors ?

00:32:09 ben_vulpes: like i said, 'twill remain a mystery

00:33:11 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1351815 << have i not yet achieved loglightenment on how to index the transaction set?

00:33:11 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 14:46:59; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1351660 << ahahahaa i'm a laugh to death, we want a sql parser to grind every motherfucking time a tx is fetched ??!?!?

00:33:34 asciilifeform: well, we ~already know~ that it can be done WITHOUT SQL ANYWHERE

00:34:15 ben_vulpes: sure, but did you miss the line where i asked "what data structure will work here?"?

00:34:26 asciilifeform: quite a few would work

00:34:44 *: ben_vulpes opens the door, gestures frantically

00:35:15 asciilifeform: e.g., b* tree

00:35:44 asciilifeform: b-tree rather

00:36:07 asciilifeform: b* if space is more of a concern vs time

00:36:14 thestringpuller: BSP trees?

00:36:17 thestringpuller: i kno those

00:37:48 asciilifeform: at any rate the data structure oughta be optimized FOR THIS PROBLEM and not 'for everything anyone might ever think of forever'

00:38:09 ben_vulpes: how then to sort transactions?

00:38:30 ben_vulpes: i must now admit to only a kindergarten level understanding of data structures, for any who remain un-clued-in to this fact

00:38:42 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://www.semaphorecorp.com/btp/algo.html or see knuth

00:38:44 assbot: B-tree algorithms ... ( http://bit.ly/1m8nDGj )

00:39:13 asciilifeform: or even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coRJrcIYbF4

00:39:14 assbot: B-Tree example - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1m8nC5j )

00:39:23 ben_vulpes: "keys" in this case would be 'txid's?

00:39:43 asciilifeform: aha

00:40:14 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352040 << Digging through the newsmines there seems to be a subspecies of aspie neckbeard that occasionally presents so

00:40:14 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 17:21:24; mircea_popescu: who the fuck else is this FUCKING EQUALITARIAN, huh ?

00:40:32 ben_vulpes: please bear with me for a moment, hashes are then actually a sortable thing, a la...integers?

00:41:03 asciilifeform: whatever bitstring you like can be treated as an integer

00:41:08 ben_vulpes: in that any byte array can be used to represent an integer?

00:41:14 ben_vulpes: i am completely out of my depth here.

00:41:14 asciilifeform: aha

00:41:39 BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352046 << Many can't pose opencunted, because gunt. Pictures in log.

00:41:39 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 17:22:53; asciilifeform: these selfsame folks will happily pose topless, or opencunted, etc. ~in the right place~

00:41:41 asciilifeform: 'god created the integers, all else is the work of man' (tm) (r) (gauss)

00:42:10 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fortunately, the mutants in your photos are not actually common

00:42:12 ben_vulpes: okay, this i now dig.

00:42:47 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'man strncmp' on your box

00:43:05 asciilifeform: ^ one metric

00:43:29 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You only don't encounter many, because in capital zone they get deported here or Ohio. Or maybe you just haven't much been to walmart.

00:43:56 ben_vulpes: nifty.

00:43:57 asciilifeform: l0l and here i thought it was because they don't get out

00:44:24 asciilifeform: the one time i went to lolmart they destroyed my shoes

00:44:53 ben_vulpes: wut

00:44:54 ben_vulpes: how

00:45:27 asciilifeform: (some clerk spilled a bucket of paint right in my path, led to a circus where successively higher levels of boss appeared to apologize, ending with top shift boss - a pretty gurl - giving me a fiddybuck 'gift card' )

00:46:07 kakobrekla: some serious luck.

00:46:09 BingoBoingo: Nice

00:46:16 asciilifeform: this was eons ago.

00:47:06 asciilifeform: anyway i can't think of any reason to venture into a lolmart in modern day

00:47:17 asciilifeform: (what amazon is for)

00:47:18 BingoBoingo: But no, the circus freaks get out. It's just they most often go places they can sit or ride venue provided scooty puffs.

00:51:31 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX7rliyPF48

00:51:32 assbot: Black Jeopardy with Elizabeth Banks - SNL - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1mhWPD5 )

00:52:23 asciilifeform: ick laughtrack

00:56:27 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352005 << neat! i would dearly love to see this.

00:56:27 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 17:12:09; asciilifeform: and multithreaded gcd--er

01:04:39 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352122 << this was never actually on the table, the thread was war stories on my part and generalized architectural opining on mircea_popescu's

01:04:39 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 18:35:54; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we don't have sql in there now. this was re: the notion of using sqlite.

01:12:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00050182 = 16.5099 BTC [-]

01:16:24 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352327 << wait, what has changed in the bootup process that would justify an update?

01:16:24 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 19:52:00; asciilifeform: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/06/21_a-tour-of-bitcoind-booting-to-its-first-thread.html << would be neat to see an updated this

01:16:29 ben_vulpes: or, talking about script?

01:19:04 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the article

01:19:10 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352445 << oh come on, no citation even?! i spent hours on that research.

01:19:10 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 20:51:20; mircea_popescu: This year HBR changed the evaluation criteria from "stock price only"1 to an agglomeration of fuzzy metrics that include stock price in addition to Sustainalytics' proprietary "goodness evaluation" metrics.

01:19:13 ben_vulpes: "research"

01:19:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158177 @ 0.00050046 = 79.1613 BTC [-] {4}

01:19:27 ben_vulpes: rooting around in middens

01:19:55 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you want a rehash of the GUD stuff? a wholesale reexamination of every point in the piece?

01:20:02 asciilifeform: nono

01:20:11 asciilifeform: just more expositions in that vein

01:20:15 ben_vulpes: ah

01:24:19 ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/10/21_the-myths-of-the-good-life-and-that-work-should-be-fun-and-happen-in-a-fun-place-only-serve-to-enslave-you-to-the-progressives-hedonic-treadmill.html << regarding bezos

01:24:20 assbot: The myths of "the good life" and that work should be fun and happen in a fun place only serve to enslave you to the progressive's hedonic treadmill ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqnvOT )

01:25:02 asciilifeform: l0l, everybody knows that work happens in a uranium mine and a miner lives for about 3 months before succumbing

01:25:37 *: ben_vulpes is surprised asciilifeform's parser can handle the title, much less the piece

01:26:30 asciilifeform: 'Bezos runs a company, not a playground for millenials.' << actually the interesting thing is that he ~does~ run a playground for millenials

01:26:40 asciilifeform: but it's a different kind, the kind with razor blades in the slides

01:27:46 ben_vulpes: how is it that place can get away without showing a profit?

01:28:16 asciilifeform: pyramid

01:28:33 asciilifeform: (usg-powered, like all other 'superstar' stocks)

01:28:41 asciilifeform: elementarily.

01:29:15 thestringpuller: i thought amazon made a profit?

01:29:24 thestringpuller: also iirc you don't pay any taxes if you technically make no profit.

01:29:36 ben_vulpes: this shit is enough to make me despair of anything but burning everything down.

01:30:01 thestringpuller: i thought we all felt that way to begin with...

01:30:11 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: let mircea_popescu know when you've reached the correct level of despair, he will issue you with a pin with which to poke out eyes of guards

01:30:36 ben_vulpes: i dgaf about guards

01:30:43 ben_vulpes: there are specific heads i'm out for yet.

01:32:06 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there anything to this gdansk deepwater port nyooz?

01:39:57 trinque: +asciilifeform │ (usg-powered, like all other 'superstar' stocks) << wat?

01:40:07 trinque: amazon has been treated on the logs several times

01:40:22 asciilifeform: see, e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-09-2015#1259247

01:40:22 assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 22:24:21; mircea_popescu: trinque the fed mostly owns privately issued paper anyway. mostly bond bundles, but most of them are tied to stocks (via banks) so in point of fact the fed owns atm ~118-122% or so of the entire us economy

01:40:34 *: trinque goes to find current numbers, but iirc they run thin *profits*

01:40:52 trinque: and the strategy is to outrun competitors in this manner.

01:41:02 trinque: I don't see the fault with it.

01:45:40 trinque: http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/amzn/financials/income/quarter

01:45:41 assbot: AMZN Quarterly Income Statement - Amazon.com Inc. Quarterly Financials ... ( http://bit.ly/1OqoqPb )

01:45:50 trinque: last 3/4 were profitable

01:46:36 trinque: rather, 3 out of last 4

01:47:44 thestringpuller: and they don't pay dividends either

01:48:27 thestringpuller: i think shareholders forced apple to pay dividends cause sitting on as much cash as they allegedly had is extremely risky, cause inflation

01:48:48 thestringpuller: then again all fiat stocks are scams anyways...

02:10:23 BingoBoingo: loller https://archive.is/srW6Q

02:10:24 assbot: Write for bitcoin news - Bitcoin News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oqpt1J )

02:12:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63800 @ 0.00050254 = 32.0621 BTC [+] {2}

02:29:47 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352582 << rathger likely.

02:29:47 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 22:08:21; asciilifeform: and considering that secret courts and secret laws are now sop in usaschwitz, perhaps it was tested 1,001 times and was laughed at from day one

02:30:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352594 << how's things ?

02:30:54 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 22:17:53; Azelphur: Haven't been active in here in a while, howdy :)

02:32:58 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352630 << directly to knuth.

02:32:58 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 00:38:42; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://www.semaphorecorp.com/btp/algo.html or see knuth

02:33:11 mircea_popescu: best use of one's time in this field, deeply recommended for any gentleman anyway.

02:33:19 asciilifeform: ^

02:35:29 mircea_popescu: could almost say he's a sort of computing's feynman.

02:36:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352675 << beotch, you're like linked from the latest on fraudsters already :D

02:36:36 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 01:19:10; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352445 << oh come on, no citation even?! i spent hours on that research.

02:37:08 ben_vulpes: aha, yes.

02:37:42 asciilifeform: http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/files/ic_h11_scramble.wav << cruddy crypto from the olden dayz

02:37:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MyMfwN )

02:37:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352698 << i find alf's sarcasm has improved markedly since hanging around here.

02:37:54 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 01:30:11; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: let mircea_popescu know when you've reached the correct level of despair, he will issue you with a pin with which to poke out eyes of guards

02:39:34 mircea_popescu: "Keep you title under 156 characters

02:39:35 mircea_popescu: Make sure your article is easy to read. People familiar and not will be reading the articles.

02:39:35 mircea_popescu: Do a proper fact check"

02:39:43 mircea_popescu: shit. i could have written for "bitcoin news" ALL THIS TIME ?

02:40:41 asciilifeform: !s from:mircea_popescu alf improved markedly

02:40:42 assbot: 1 results for 'from:mircea_popescu alf improved markedly' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+alf+improved+markedly

02:40:48 asciilifeform: l0lz

02:41:10 mircea_popescu: you gonna blame the search ?

02:41:34 mircea_popescu: anyway. it was PEN. not fucking pin. pen.

02:41:42 asciilifeform: pen with pin!

02:42:04 mircea_popescu: the pinpen of pain.

02:51:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83845 @ 0.0005027 = 42.1489 BTC [+] {2}

02:52:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28548 @ 0.00050413 = 14.3919 BTC [+]

02:56:57 asciilifeform: http://www.radioscanner.ru/forum/topic23745-6.html#msg682723 << account of su reverse engineering the famous 'ivy bells' device. afaik this has never appeared in english

02:56:58 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1m8wrfj )

02:57:11 asciilifeform: or possibly it has

02:57:14 asciilifeform: nm.

02:57:21 asciilifeform: looks like might even be a back-translation

02:59:28 asciilifeform: (or fabrication..)

03:04:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00050395 = 10.9861 BTC [-] {2}

03:10:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84050 @ 0.00050458 = 42.4099 BTC [+] {2}

03:11:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00050678 = 12.2641 BTC [+] {2}

03:38:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76294 @ 0.00050427 = 38.4728 BTC [-]

04:37:02 deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $800 before Jul 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1233/bitcoin-to-top-800-before-jul-2016/#b20

05:05:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00050731 = 25.7206 BTC [+] {2}

05:06:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32358 @ 0.00050747 = 16.4207 BTC [+]

05:29:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32116 @ 0.00050751 = 16.2992 BTC [+] {2}

05:51:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00050528 = 24.5566 BTC [-]

06:12:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29250 @ 0.00050521 = 14.7774 BTC [-] {2}

06:21:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84200 @ 0.00050484 = 42.5075 BTC [-]

06:33:14 *: asciilifeform switches on... air conditioner

06:33:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48018 @ 0.00050753 = 24.3706 BTC [+] {2}

06:34:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6282 @ 0.00050784 = 3.1903 BTC [+]

06:59:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87350 @ 0.00050791 = 44.3659 BTC [+] {2}

07:07:34 phf: dc is actually quite pleasant when all the apparatchiks are home celebrating national holiday

07:07:46 phf: cigar bar was all malcontents and characters

07:08:08 phf: but yeah, it's fucking hot out

07:19:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77600 @ 0.0005074 = 39.3742 BTC [-]

07:25:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.0005074 = 9.1839 BTC [-]

07:40:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77500 @ 0.00050694 = 39.2879 BTC [-]

07:54:44 BingoBoingo: here near stl is is a pleasant spring weather

08:17:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51550 @ 0.00050484 = 26.0245 BTC [-]

08:22:31 BingoBoingo: https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/746284

08:22:33 assbot: Every year this smug fat bastard breaks into people's home and stuffs himself with cookies. The worst part is no one says a word about it. I blame fat acceptance. | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1YFDbgF )

08:36:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00050522 = 4.1428 BTC [+]

08:37:15 phf: there's been reports in the media that naughty or nice database has been breached, but of course everyone knows that santa has been cooperating with NSA for years

08:45:46 BingoBoingo: Always taking the easy way out

08:45:50 BingoBoingo: !up PinkPosixPXE

08:52:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00050522 = 16.1165 BTC [+]

09:00:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.0005051 = 12.2992 BTC [-] {2}

09:01:34 deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part i. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/12/25/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-i/

09:12:34 ben_vulpes: > 0.5.3 selected by Mircea Popescu

09:12:39 ben_vulpes: eh gtfo pete

09:14:28 ben_vulpes: article woefully lacking in links to http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html and http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/05/02_a-brief-history-of-the-bitcoin-foundations-activity-from-102014-through-42015.html

09:14:29 assbot: A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Od7bio )

09:14:30 assbot: A brief history of the Bitcoin Foundation's activity from 10/2014 through 4/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Od7bis )

09:15:18 ben_vulpes: the link you cite as mircea_popescu picking 0.5.3 is a response to a request for a copy of the source of a particular vintage

09:17:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48050 @ 0.00050694 = 24.3585 BTC [+]

09:28:43 thestringpuller: Merry Xmas ya'll. Or at least the people within my timezone...

09:47:49 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/srW6Q << oh look. "competition". Roger Ver wants to get into journalism now. Whatever happened to that "successful" BitcoinStore.com shit he used to run

09:57:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00050562 = 33.3709 BTC [-]

10:02:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49684 @ 0.00050562 = 25.1212 BTC [-]

10:24:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77100 @ 0.00050516 = 38.9478 BTC [-] {2}

10:32:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32800 @ 0.00050601 = 16.5971 BTC [+]

10:42:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88754 @ 0.00050484 = 44.8066 BTC [-]

10:43:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56796 @ 0.00050427 = 28.6405 BTC [-]

10:49:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15410 @ 0.00050427 = 7.7708 BTC [-]

10:50:35 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell BingoBoingo qntra.net/contact/ << missed this one?

10:50:35 gribble: The operation succeeded.

10:50:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28990 @ 0.00050385 = 14.6066 BTC [-]

10:51:35 jurov: heh, looks like a bsnss opportunity for a paid pastebin >:D

11:01:25 ben_vulpes: isn't that called a webserver?

11:01:27 deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] [ANN] WOTPASTE Alpha (oh and I found another fucked up corner of GPG...) - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/12/25_ann-wotpaste-alpha-oh-and-i-found-another-fucked-up-corner-of-gpg.html

11:01:41 ben_vulpes: jurov: while we're on the topic...

11:04:52 ben_vulpes: ahh i love shipping in the wee hours

11:08:19 punkman: ben_vulpes: not just newlines, you can add spaces, tabs, and possibly other things at end of lines

11:09:04 ben_vulpes: isn't it grand!?

11:09:25 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2015#1245293

11:09:25 assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 09:40:13; punkman: (exercise for students: clearsign a piece of text. append as many trailing spaces/tabs/CRs as you like to the clearsigned text. check if it's still valid. repeat process with detached signature, see what happens)

11:09:52 ben_vulpes: ah that's right you beat me to this one by a long shot

11:10:20 ben_vulpes: but i don't think you called out specifically that you can rewrite the whole file's line ending styles without invalidating it

11:12:13 punkman: we'd have a lot more bad signatures if it wasn't the case

11:15:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92000 @ 0.00050665 = 46.6118 BTC [+] {2}

11:20:01 punkman: ben_vulpes: while signed pasties are nice for the pastie collector, ain't nobody got time for that

11:20:25 punkman: I guess it'd be useful as deedbot input

11:24:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27863 @ 0.00050694 = 14.1249 BTC [+]

11:25:22 ben_vulpes: hm

11:25:58 ben_vulpes: k, noted

11:26:49 ben_vulpes: there's an experimental aspect to it as well, in the vein of getting more signed msterial out in the world

11:35:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.000507 = 26.6175 BTC [+] {2}

12:11:07 jurov: ben_vulpes: gpg is okay with changed line endings in clearsigned content. However, some email clients helpfully wrap text or add/remove empty lines and there the buck stops.

12:16:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66100 @ 0.00050383 = 33.3032 BTC [-] {2}

12:43:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50514 @ 0.00050847 = 25.6849 BTC [+] {2}

12:56:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00050383 = 33.5047 BTC [-]

13:01:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8242 @ 0.00050383 = 4.1526 BTC [-]

13:26:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6118 @ 0.00050383 = 3.0824 BTC [-]

13:28:19 jurov: http://m.smedata.sk/api-media/media/image/sme/1/30/309391/309391_970x647.jpeg?rev=4 ahahaha ded moroz

13:28:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Po7hog )

13:31:49 jurov: year 1959 - from http://domov.sme.sk/c/20068741/vianocny-casostroj-v-kosiciach-deti-vitali-deda-mraza-na-rakete.html)

13:31:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Po7ury )

13:33:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00050817 = 21.1907 BTC [+]

13:38:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00050726 = 30.9936 BTC [-] {2}

13:41:46 punkman: http://noradsanta.wikia.com/wiki/GLONASS_Tracks_Father_Frost lol

13:41:47 assbot: GLONASS Tracks Father Frost - NORAD Tracks Santa Wiki - Wikia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Po80Wt )

13:49:14 punkman: for aficionados, greek santa is not Nicholas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_of_Caesarea

13:49:15 assbot: Basil of Caesarea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1miwCnH )

13:53:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48750 @ 0.000506 = 24.6675 BTC [-] {2}

14:02:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.0005085 = 2.2883 BTC [+]

14:07:25 punkman: http://www.e-sylwester.pl/galerie/3253/VGLN-GROLOUSK-9.jpg and the traditional christmas tree is actually a christmas boat

14:17:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9136 @ 0.00050319 = 4.5971 BTC [-]

14:18:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19834 @ 0.00050123 = 9.9414 BTC [-]

14:51:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99031 @ 0.00050892 = 50.3989 BTC [+] {3}

14:59:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00050148 = 14.9692 BTC [-]

15:04:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87750 @ 0.00050926 = 44.6876 BTC [+] {3}

15:29:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00050959 = 11.8989 BTC [+]

15:59:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352769 << moscow was just as great!

15:59:57 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 07:07:34; phf: dc is actually quite pleasant when all the apparatchiks are home celebrating national holiday

16:00:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63450 @ 0.00050138 = 31.8126 BTC [-] {2}

16:06:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352791 << it's true, i never picked 5.3 per se. my contribution was that i said no later than 6 series ; foundation held an informal hearing, decided to go the earliest possible rather than latest possible route, supoena'd me for historical copies which i provided and htey used.

16:06:51 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 09:15:18; ben_vulpes: the link you cite as mircea_popescu picking 0.5.3 is a response to a request for a copy of the source of a particular vintage

16:09:16 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352794 <<< it got too successful for its own victim or something.

16:09:16 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 09:47:49; thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/srW6Q << oh look. "competition". Roger Ver wants to get into journalism now. Whatever happened to that "successful" BitcoinStore.com shit he used to run

16:10:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352814 |<< everyone who had to use gpg got bruised by gpg. davout was talking to me about this in 2013, for a diff project

16:10:31 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:09:52; ben_vulpes: ah that's right you beat me to this one by a long shot

16:16:23 mircea_popescu: http://m.smedata.sk/api-media/media/image/sme/3/30/309393/309393_1000x.jpeg << heh check out the czech starlets!

16:16:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQz3ei )

16:16:30 mircea_popescu: pick the 2000s pronstarz in there ?

16:29:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00050959 = 7.1088 BTC [+]

16:29:26 jurov: mircea_popescu: as the pics are from '50-'60s, surely not.

16:29:34 mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Hey, thanks for starting to write up some of this stuff. I aught to point out at least one thing: 'Checkpoints excised by Shane Kinney'

16:29:35 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:30:41 mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Although I posted this patch in December of '14, it was quickly tabled by February -- and I wrote about this in the SoBA: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000041.html

16:30:42 assbot: [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZsBCF0 )

16:30:42 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:31:10 mod6: read this section: [ Tabling of Checkpoints Patch ]:

16:31:30 punkman: isn't verifyall equivalent to no checkpoints?

16:31:53 mod6: And this statement is not accurate: ``With the “rm_checkpoints” patch, the wedge issue at Block 252450 was overcome.''

16:32:13 mod6: it was this patch that overcame that issue: bitcoin-v0_5_3-db_config.6.vpatch

16:33:00 mod6: here's the original posting of that: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000024.html

16:33:01 assbot: [BTC-dev] BDB Configuration ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZsBSnl )

16:33:51 mod6: Sorry that it's confusing and not super easy to follow, just hoping to make your cool historical timeline a bit more accurate. Salud!

16:39:47 mod6: punkman: ya

16:39:56 mod6: - if (!(fBlock && (nBestHeight < Checkpoints::GetTotalBlocksEstimate())))

16:39:59 mod6: + if (fVerifyAll || (!(fBlock && (nBestHeight < Checkpoints::GetTotalBlocksEstimate()))))

16:40:02 mod6: different patch though

16:40:24 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000120.html

16:40:25 assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Add '-verifyall' option. ... ( http://bit.ly/1COZ3BA )

16:41:16 mod6: and its worthwhile to point out the db locks thing is separate

16:45:04 shinohai: Let me say that -verifyall really does it's job of verifying blocks lol

16:46:21 shinohai: Also, been stalled on block 381423 for ~12 hours.

16:48:34 punkman: ;;bc,stats

16:48:38 gribble: Current Blocks: 390129 | Current Difficulty: 9.34486707963238E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 391103 | Next Difficulty In: 974 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

16:49:29 mircea_popescu: jurov oh i thought it was 80s

16:49:49 mircea_popescu: heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures.

16:49:56 punkman: lol

16:50:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00050966 = 8.18 BTC [+] {2}

16:53:43 mircea_popescu: <punkman> isn't verifyall equivalent to no checkpoints? << in trb yes. otherwise... complicated.

16:55:32 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352888 << i like going to american antique stores, stocked with '40s-'50s crud. it's kinda like a tour to my '80s childhood

16:55:32 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:49:49; mircea_popescu: heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures.

16:56:39 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352883 << i recommend reading the code. it disables the 'checkpoint' crud (in the sense of forcing all blocks, including the early ones covered by the 'checkpoint' kludge, to be verified)

16:56:39 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:45:04; shinohai: Let me say that -verifyall really does it's job of verifying blocks lol

17:02:18 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures. << yeah, whenever i see these older pics, I can't tell if its 30 years ago or 60

17:02:48 asciilifeform: i still don't get what is so terrible about this.

17:03:14 asciilifeform: folks dressed like civilized people, tasteful quasi-victorian rooms, etc.

17:03:24 mod6: totally nothing. i actually kinda like these.

17:04:31 asciilifeform: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-08-2014#799538 << iirc this is the earliest point of reference for proto-trb

17:04:31 assbot: Logged on 18-08-2014 00:46:28; mircea_popescu: so here is a "witness" bitcoin, v 0.6 and there is your "improved" 0.10 (lulzy that it's not 1.0 anymoar)

17:04:31 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:05:37 asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu reveals that he has - to this day unpublished! - private 31337 version of bitcoin; then everybody tries to pry detail outa him; ben_vulpes asks for pedigreed tarballs; i ask for printed book... etc )

17:08:19 asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352823 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352488

17:08:19 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:26:49; ben_vulpes: there's an experimental aspect to it as well, in the vein of getting more signed msterial out in the world

17:08:19 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 21:22:07; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352443 << no!! because deedbot requires privkey use during paste, which is very arduous if you have good hygiene

17:08:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:08:58 asciilifeform: maybe i'm just thick, but i can't think of what ben_vulpes's 'wotpaste' is actually for

17:10:01 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> folks dressed like civilized people, tasteful quasi-victorian rooms, etc. <<< http://fraudsters.com/2010/piinea-amara-a-baietasilor-de-cartier/ you priviledged lout you.

17:10:02 assbot: Piinea amara a baietasilor de cartier on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMt22E )

17:10:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352853 << chronology! >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-10-2014#888435

17:10:15 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:06:51; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352791 << it's true, i never picked 5.3 per se. my contribution was that i said no later than 6 series ; foundation held an informal hearing, decided to go the earliest possible rather than latest possible route, supoena'd me for historical copies which i provided and htey used.

17:10:15 assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 18:45:41; *: jurov just snatched therealbitcoin.org/.com . we'll see.

17:10:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey everybody's front door looked like this

17:10:56 mircea_popescu: sooooo

17:11:35 asciilifeform: perhaps i'm missing the point of the photo..?

17:12:16 mircea_popescu: looky, the 1990 revolutions happened because hunger. this is a fact.

17:12:39 asciilifeform: aha

17:13:01 mircea_popescu: the article kinda mocks some .ro rappers because hey, hunger. anyway.

17:14:07 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> maybe i'm just thick, but i can't think of what ben_vulpes's 'wotpaste' is actually for << not really his, i just idly asked why would we make a special thing for paste when deedbot already has all that functionality and more. within the same ten minutes it came to light why and the matter went away afaic.

17:15:26 asciilifeform: because i wanna paste from a shell

17:15:36 asciilifeform: as in, through a pipe

17:15:39 mircea_popescu: aha.

17:15:45 asciilifeform: and many other trb folks, i imagine, could also find this useful

17:15:52 asciilifeform: and i ain't signing pipe garbage

17:16:02 asciilifeform: (which i might not even know the content of in advance!)

17:16:23 asciilifeform: pastes are a disposable thing that one might produce ten of in a single minute

17:17:22 mircea_popescu: this poor goat is dead alfie. why you beatin' it.

17:17:35 *: asciilifeform is still waiting for the first 'shall be delivered'-style disaster to illustrate 'don't carelessly sign things'

17:17:57 mircea_popescu: the guy that got all butthurt about his eth short not good enough for you ?

17:18:08 asciilifeform: didn't he lose his key ?

17:18:13 mircea_popescu: the other guy that was going to "ruin bitbet in social media" because similar ?

17:18:17 asciilifeform: very different problem

17:18:20 mircea_popescu: i guess technically different huh.

17:18:47 asciilifeform: everybody ~knows~ that losing your key is doom

17:19:11 asciilifeform: but folks sign carelessly, because very few good public, bloody, examples of why not to

17:21:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352859 << 'как наденешь галстук, береги его, он же с нашим знаменем цвета одного!!!' (tm) (r)

17:21:09 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:16:23; mircea_popescu: http://m.smedata.sk/api-media/media/image/sme/3/30/309393/309393_1000x.jpeg << heh check out the czech starlets!

17:21:20 asciilifeform: (re: the 'pioneer' neckties)

17:21:27 asciilifeform: this rhyme, incidentally, was mercilessly spoofed

17:21:37 mircea_popescu: was discussing more the hitler jugend one-inch-over-pubis skirts

17:22:03 asciilifeform: original 'when you get your necktie, keep it safe, it is the same colour as our red banner'

17:22:09 *: mircea_popescu is partial to that fashion for girlies, perhaps on account of having grown up in a sea of teenybopper knickers.

17:22:12 asciilifeform: 'folk' variations included 'Как наденешь галстук - береги его: Он с твоими месячными цвета одного'

17:22:19 asciilifeform: (... it is same colour as your menstruations)

17:22:42 asciilifeform: or 'Как наденешь галстук - Береги его! Есть на чём повеситься, В случае чего'

17:22:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know the (same vintage) aspirin contraception joke ?

17:22:54 asciilifeform: ( ... you'll have what to hang yourself on, just in case )

17:23:11 asciilifeform: everybody knows it

17:23:13 asciilifeform: even in usa

17:23:47 mircea_popescu: aok

17:23:53 *: asciilifeform also partial to same fashion

17:23:57 asciilifeform: prolylly for same reason

17:24:30 mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/05/02_a-brief-history-of-the-bitcoin-foundations-activity-from-102014-through-42015.html << actually re-reading this... hey, pretty fucking cool huh.

17:24:31 assbot: A brief history of the Bitcoin Foundation's activity from 10/2014 through 4/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Od7bis )

17:24:39 asciilifeform: interesting how it never caught on in supposedly depuritanized usa

17:24:57 mircea_popescu: mod6 reconfigures BDB to pass the wedge at block 252450 << remember that alf ? :D

17:25:02 asciilifeform: aha

17:25:31 *: asciilifeform still loathes bdb and would like to see it go, asap

17:26:11 mircea_popescu: honestly the only way to replace that seems bitcoinfs

17:26:14 mircea_popescu: still premature.

17:28:20 *: asciilifeform has been looking at the socket handling, and it is imho the most urgent crock of shit ~after~ the leak

17:28:32 asciilifeform: one idiot can trivially monopolize a node.

17:28:57 mircea_popescu: yeah, take some load off poor iptables for this.

17:30:39 asciilifeform: the whole polled socket thing is deeply braindamaged

17:30:58 asciilifeform: (it is a sort of 'cooperative multitasking', a la win95 !)

17:31:28 asciilifeform: client walks the fd's and sees if socket 'needs service' and gives itself over to it wholly until whatever operation (however long it takes) is complete

17:31:53 mircea_popescu: guy was a windows head.

17:31:55 asciilifeform: and ~despite~ this, the source is still peppered with 'critical section' locks etc

17:32:26 mircea_popescu: i think locks and lock behavious is nsa's #1 favourite metacomputing item.

17:32:40 mircea_popescu: counterintuitively, ahead of prngs

17:32:49 asciilifeform: who doesn't love a good ol'fashioned race condition bug

17:32:54 mircea_popescu: you know ?

17:32:59 mircea_popescu: way the fuck better than a smash.

17:33:01 asciilifeform: (anybody recall the race condition 0days in linux kernel circa 2011 ?)

17:33:06 mircea_popescu: myeah.

17:52:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36445 @ 0.00051001 = 18.5873 BTC [+] {2}

18:16:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82457 @ 0.00050886 = 41.9591 BTC [-] {3}

18:31:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00051002 = 15.2496 BTC [+] {3}

18:37:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50018 @ 0.00051006 = 25.5122 BTC [+] {3}

18:40:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16550 @ 0.00051009 = 8.442 BTC [+]

18:45:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63294 @ 0.00050667 = 32.0692 BTC [-] {2}

18:47:34 jurov: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10791667 kek

18:47:35 assbot: %*$*#&#* Windows 7 Calculator | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKzFCB )

18:52:39 VariaVarietatis: sup mircea_popescu

18:56:49 VariaVarietatis: asciilifeform: heard a rumor they might close the drone base in turkey, think this is true?

19:04:25 asciilifeform: VariaVarietatis: how the hell would i know.

19:08:04 asciilifeform: 'For some reason, completely unknown to me, Xcode is ALSO tied to OSX version, For example Xcode 6.3 requires a OSX version more than Xcode 6.2, despite having no huge differentes between the two and Xcode 6.3 don't requiring any new OS capabilities that Xcode 6.2 didn't already used anyway. But every time you update OSX and Xcode, not only they sometimes explicitly require a new machine model, but they also get increasingly m

19:08:04 asciilifeform: ore inefficient, using more and more RAM and CPU to do the same things. Since right now, I am very low on money, this means I am stuck using Xcode 6.2, and trying to not misclick anything when I plug the testing devices and iTunes nag me to update them... because if I allow them to get updated, I will have to upgrade Xcode, OSX, and the entire machine, and right now sometimes I can't afford even food ...'

19:08:06 asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l

19:10:17 asciilifeform: '... A physical calculator (and not a touch-screen app on a tablet) has something that the surrogate doesn't. For one thing it does not require you to do GUI context switching. It does not compete for mouse (or keyboard) with the other tens of open programs. I find this invaluable. On the other hand, touch screens take away tactile feedback. This gives the same bland taste as the soft power-off switches.' << yes!

19:10:22 *: asciilifeform keeps physical calculator

19:13:16 shinohai: I prefer physical calculators myself. Apps suck.

19:14:41 asciilifeform: i'm still waiting for a physical calc with hex digit keys and single-button bit operations

19:14:48 asciilifeform: so i can sell my antique hp16c

19:14:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84750 @ 0.00050961 = 43.1894 BTC [+] {4}

19:15:36 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-09-2015#1262347 << see thread.

19:15:36 assbot: Logged on 04-09-2015 03:52:50; mats: jesus the hp 16c goes for 200+

19:22:17 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: that reminds me of professor who said to class, "Why the fuck does Word need 1GB of memory and we got to the moon on 12kb of RAM?"

19:22:22 thestringpuller: no one in the class had an answer

19:22:40 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300

19:22:42 assbot: Loper OS » Going Nowhere Really Fast, or How Computers Only Come in Two Speeds. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OVhuca )

19:24:17 thestringpuller: Millions of people have been bamboozled into thinking that editing a letter in real time requires a supercomputer. << but how has the consumer been so easily bamboozled.

19:24:38 thestringpuller: some schmuck has to be like "This is how it is, and this is what you are to expect." for "consumers to have come to expect"

19:24:38 asciilifeform: because 'consumer' is not actually alive.

19:24:55 asciilifeform: but just this thing, like water, takes shape of container (as portrayed in old mircea_popescu article)

19:25:18 thestringpuller: ofc. but yet still operators today, for instance coworkers refuse to use VIM cause "hard"

19:25:35 asciilifeform: if it were 'use vim or stop eating' they will use vim.

19:25:43 thestringpuller: but yet when Atom or Sublime or other bastardized notepad explodes they complain.

19:25:44 asciilifeform: just as they happily used microshit

19:26:16 thestringpuller: I blame the web developers. Fancy CSS and prettiness > functionality

19:26:47 asciilifeform: see also http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3071492123502329@naggum.no.html

19:26:48 assbot: Re: creation of lisp machine/lispOS - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/22rV8Uy )

19:27:17 asciilifeform: 'look at Microsoft. nobody in their right mind would want their buggy shit. what Microshit users want is something entirely separate from the products. Microshit is _not_ user-friendly, but it is marketed as user-friendly, and then other software products, far more user-friendly, are made to look as if they missed the whole point about what "user-friendly" _is_, namely to look cool in nice colors while you're crashing and des

19:27:17 asciilifeform: troying the disk, importing a virus from a disk, or letting Word destroy your day's work.'

19:29:49 thestringpuller: Meanwhile, I want to build a sane computer, but I feel it's futile because Microshit and Apple ruined everything... :(

19:30:30 asciilifeform: the boojum in building a sane-anything is that it will have to be financed with your lunch money.

19:31:03 thestringpuller: too bad the bullies shake me down for it everyday

19:31:12 thestringpuller: so not like I have lunch money to begin with

19:32:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352815 << and when i wrote re: CLEARSIGNING IS INTRINSICALLY RETARDED BECAUSE IN-BAND did anyone listen ?

19:32:25 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:10:20; ben_vulpes: but i don't think you called out specifically that you can rewrite the whole file's line ending styles without invalidating it

19:33:02 asciilifeform: let's approach mathematically. with detached sig in gpg, i can sign ANY bitstring which fits in the machine.

19:33:20 asciilifeform: with 'clearsign' - i can only sign certain strings which don't contain the escape magicks.

19:34:03 asciilifeform: and since gpg is retarded by virtue of having to ride on top of 7bit-clean turdmailz etc., it happily mutilates strings to make'em signable

19:34:23 asciilifeform: so you are not signing what you thought you were signing, but a transform

19:34:29 asciilifeform: which is unforgivable

19:35:31 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-08-2015#1238786 << see thread.

19:35:31 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 17:51:51; asciilifeform: because it doesn't belong in-band.

19:36:32 punkman: no reason we can't have pseudo-clearsigned, text at the top with hex escapes for unprintables, full msg+sig in lower base64 part

19:36:43 asciilifeform: no.

19:36:56 asciilifeform: because http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-08-2015#1238815

19:36:56 assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 17:56:24; asciilifeform: now you have to CARE ABOUT THE INSIDES

19:37:01 asciilifeform: because CAN'T PIPE THAT

19:37:03 asciilifeform: srslyh

19:37:14 punkman: huh?

19:38:40 asciilifeform: because if you have a magic format, suddenly you have severely circumscribed choices

19:39:17 asciilifeform: 1) you can no longer transmit a file of unknown length through a signing widget and sign at arbitrary moment. gotta compute the length in advance

19:39:33 asciilifeform: 2) now you have to care about endian - how to represent the magic length word ?

19:40:19 asciilifeform: 3) if your file is 7-bit clean, it WILL get mutilated somewhere from point A to point B, just about guaranteed, so whole exercise was pointless

19:40:49 asciilifeform: 4) you have to de-crudify a signed file before it can be used

19:40:58 asciilifeform: i could go on and on with the braindamage

19:41:44 asciilifeform: 'clearsign' kinda worked for documents intended to be STRICTLY human-readable, where newline crud doesn't have much of an impact

19:41:48 asciilifeform: but even there it barely worked.

19:41:59 asciilifeform: i've ruined hell knows how many ascii art diagrams by signing

19:42:04 asciilifeform: (dashes mutilated)

19:45:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78083 @ 0.00050135 = 39.1469 BTC [-] {3}

19:45:34 asciilifeform: 'clearsigning' is one of those 'dwim' retardations that folks apparently will have to burn themselves on painfully, again and again and again and again, until they finally grasp the futility

19:47:55 asciilifeform: there cannot be a reasonable way to do an unreasonable thing.

19:48:48 punkman: I don't want 'clearsigning', but if I'm gonna have ascii armored messages/sigs, might as well stick them in one blob, and an unencoded "preview" of the message can be nice to have

19:51:37 asciilifeform: as soon as 'nice to have' transitions into 'this does not and cannot possibly work as intended but we'll use it anyway' you open the door to perdition.

19:52:16 asciilifeform: and ascii-armour is an entirely distinct thing (really just 'uuencode') from 'clearsign'

19:52:37 asciilifeform: in that it does not pretend to be usable as-is without unpacking,

19:52:43 asciilifeform: AND in that it does not mutilate the payload!

19:52:49 punkman: aha

20:16:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127050 @ 0.00050687 = 64.3978 BTC [+] {4}

20:21:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62600 @ 0.00050263 = 31.4646 BTC [-] {2}

20:25:12 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352990 << the only megalol is wtf does some schmuck that can't afford food do withy computers.

20:25:12 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 19:08:06; asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l

20:25:17 mircea_popescu: they're not for everyone, srsly now.

20:27:34 punkman: and he even has testing devices

20:28:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64673 @ 0.00050428 = 32.6133 BTC [+]

20:28:24 mircea_popescu: i just hope he doesn't have a girlfriend.

20:30:57 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353020 << dude. i am not maintaining two channels. clearsign is good specifically because it is clearsign.

20:30:57 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 19:32:25; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352815 << and when i wrote re: CLEARSIGNING IS INTRINSICALLY RETARDED BECAUSE IN-BAND did anyone listen ?

20:31:04 mircea_popescu: you see me using "detached signatures" ?

20:31:20 *: ben_vulpes baffled that ipnohe coolie is starving somehow

20:31:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes note that often these self-misrepresented "techs" are actually 6 weeks away from the day they first heard of "that css programming language"

20:32:09 mircea_popescu: as illustrated by discussion of "entrepreneurs" quoted in the logs.

20:34:05 ben_vulpes: brief snippet sounded sorta with-it

20:34:41 ben_vulpes: but i was up till 5 last night, so not really applying the razor

20:35:32 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353048 << no. this is a color of bits issue ; i couldn't care less what the technological constraints [appear to] be. a contract is a single item, not a text and a separate signature.

20:35:32 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 19:47:55; asciilifeform: there cannot be a reasonable way to do an unreasonable thing.

20:38:47 ben_vulpes: punkman, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: destestable though they may be for injecting state into the stateless protocol, would a single "signin" page with an assbot-style decryption of OTP that results in a session key authenticating the user to the perlwad be an improvement, and are there better solutions i'm not considering? anonymous drive-by pasting is not a better solution imho.

20:39:11 mircea_popescu: let's start with, "why not"

20:40:08 ben_vulpes: because i have no interest in building things for the mob.

20:40:21 punkman: ben_vulpes: perhaps issue something like "api key" to users, have a shell script to pipe things to, that sends authenticated paste request

20:40:45 ben_vulpes: and having a known set of users rules out a whole class of misbehaviors.

20:41:26 mircea_popescu: how about this : only accept gpg-encrypted communications, and only distribute the pubkey to people you like.

20:42:00 ben_vulpes: and redistribute whenever someone pisses in my cheerios?

20:42:08 mircea_popescu: something like that

20:42:27 mircea_popescu: not 100%, but prolly close enough

20:42:53 ben_vulpes: i did briefly consider letting people sub out a disposable key

20:43:08 mircea_popescu: you can just deed a notice, which you encrypt to everyone's key.

20:44:03 ben_vulpes: huh

20:44:15 ben_vulpes: alternatively, rotate the pubkey every day, encrypting to l2 and hosting myself.

20:44:25 ben_vulpes: but this is extremely inconvenient to use.

20:44:33 mircea_popescu: meh, i'm not downloading new pubkeys every day to use your paste thing

20:44:46 mircea_popescu: might do it a once a year or some shit, but that's about it.

20:45:13 ben_vulpes: yeeeeeah.

20:45:30 mircea_popescu: alternatively : everyone get a fucking blog, and in that blog have a uploads directoy, and that's fucking that.

20:46:00 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352806

20:46:00 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:01:25; ben_vulpes: isn't that called a webserver?

20:46:36 mircea_popescu: like http://fraudsters.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/gradina-edenului-81s.jpg works

20:46:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1mE4b4a )

20:46:59 ben_vulpes: that's what i've been doing, but it's not working and i'm still seeing heinous linefeed issues hamstringing and tripping up trb scouts

20:47:21 mircea_popescu: how's it not working ?!

20:47:34 ben_vulpes: plus every irc community evolves until it has its own pastebin or how did that old saw go

20:47:49 ben_vulpes: people are still using motherfucking dpaste!

20:48:20 ben_vulpes: and miscellaneous other pasteshites who shit crlfs and waste precious trb time

20:48:36 mircea_popescu: ...

20:48:40 mircea_popescu: the idea was, get a blog, use that.

20:48:46 mircea_popescu: how is this related to the above ?

20:48:57 ben_vulpes: people aren't getting blogs and using them.

20:49:46 ben_vulpes: i'm not saying that they won't, i'm say that nobody appears to actually be doing so.

20:50:03 mircea_popescu: i think i've done so a few times, actually.

20:50:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00050493 = 26.6603 BTC [+]

20:50:45 mircea_popescu: but in fairness, this is just another facet of the monolithic usg-slavery-thoughtpattern. living in the states is good enoughy for me ; i don't really need a blog and it's not THE central, defining thing of my current existence ; on it goes.

20:50:55 mircea_popescu: there's little technological solutions to psychological problems.

20:53:38 ben_vulpes: from pasteshite design to "all you-sians are congenitally retarded" in less than 50 lines.

20:53:42 ben_vulpes: merry cribmusk.

20:53:52 mircea_popescu: lol.

20:53:56 mircea_popescu: ty, i try!

20:54:02 ben_vulpes: useles, you are!

20:54:16 *: ben_vulpes chuckles

20:54:25 mircea_popescu: wut!\

20:54:29 ben_vulpes: "i don't solve problems, i just make them"

20:54:41 mircea_popescu: i didn't even make one this time!

20:55:27 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, i go out buy a bag of dice. these idiots used blue and red for the paint on the faces. guess what numbers are red and what numbers are blue ?

20:55:29 ben_vulpes: right right, just gleefully abstaining from helping lol

20:56:01 ben_vulpes: primes and not?

20:56:09 mircea_popescu: 1 and 4 are red. rest blue.

20:56:20 *: ben_vulpes blinks

20:56:22 mircea_popescu: not you know, fucking odds and evens. not you know, fucking 1,2,3 vs 4,5,6

20:56:23 ben_vulpes: what

20:56:29 mircea_popescu: it's almost as if argentina made these.

20:56:35 ben_vulpes: well no it wouldn't be sensible things

20:57:23 ben_vulpes: aight but before we go haring off completely is there an argument to be made in favor of wotmembers signing authentication tokens over decrypting authentication tokens?

20:57:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the dpaste : im not abstaining from helping or anything of the sort. there's been an idea, it's been trashing around in the b-a uterus trying to come to conception. it doesn't seem that it actually works tho, seems more like an irrealisable chimera of disparate, irreconcilable parts.

20:58:06 mircea_popescu: the correct solution also seems to have emerged, how's any of this my fault.

20:58:29 mircea_popescu: i don't think i want an authenticated dpaste, myself.

20:58:52 mircea_popescu: for the stated reason : for the same money i just use my blog to host the file

20:59:10 mircea_popescu: which is specifically what i said above : there will exist EXACTLY ONE place i authenticate at ; the name for that place is "my blog"

20:59:16 mircea_popescu: not fucking facebook. not anything else.

20:59:34 mircea_popescu: this is fundamental and fundamentally important. if you wish to be a person, you gotta maintain this level of control.

20:59:35 ben_vulpes: incl assbot

21:00:35 mircea_popescu: not a bad counterexample.

21:00:50 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu proposes to manage dns without authentication? is this like the mythical bezzlebroker who only communicates in gpggrams with $maxint clients?

21:01:14 mircea_popescu: i propose to not manage dns at all, and not have dns, either.

21:01:21 ben_vulpes: if so i would like an introduction to this registrar, they sound like good people to know

21:01:57 mircea_popescu: you know, giving examples of broken shit is not necessarily an effectual way to argue in favour of said shit.

21:02:05 mircea_popescu: i like registrars like i like microsoft.

21:02:07 ben_vulpes: yes well clearly when we actually have gossipd auth i can wash my hands of auth too.

21:02:35 mircea_popescu: aha.

21:02:58 ben_vulpes: so riddle me this: why the everloving fuck *should* i make any tool usable for anyone outside of my wot?

21:03:01 mircea_popescu: still, you know, think about what this is. you're proposing to give people a modicum of webspace in some narrow constraints.

21:03:12 mircea_popescu: because why the fuck, 10 bucks a month is too much for these people to get a fucking blog up ?

21:03:20 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i do not think you should.

21:04:09 mircea_popescu: bear in mind however that ... how are women that you've not fucked before going to find you ?

21:04:36 ben_vulpes: isn't the classic answer 'the other gurlz'?

21:05:03 mircea_popescu: aha.


21:05:22 mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes i do not think you should. !

21:05:44 ben_vulpes: well then what precisely were you proposing?

21:07:18 jurov: he proposed for everyone to have own webspace, no?

21:07:40 mircea_popescu: that you're trying to sell webspace on a below-shared server level and by the kilobyte like some sort of idiot. either get into the business by running an actual isp or else let people do the thing sanely on their own.

21:08:22 mircea_popescu: in short, i wisened up to the fact that this particular thing is of the "go big or go home" variety and insistence on peculiar versions of small are a waste of time.

21:08:26 ben_vulpes: (tangentially related http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/vinyll.png)

21:08:27 assbot: Nothing found for Blog Wp-content Uploads 2015 12 Vinyll Png) ... ( http://bit.ly/1MzzoKT )

21:09:34 mircea_popescu: bullshit. it was, at the time, incredibly cheap and convenient.

21:09:50 ben_vulpes: not selling, really. more of a toy for phriendz

21:10:26 mircea_popescu: if you have friends who need a prepackaged version of a $10 item you apparently need better friends.

21:10:37 mircea_popescu: either that or befriending more adults, i guess.

21:11:37 ben_vulpes: nobody 'needs' a toy.

21:12:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16825 @ 0.00050493 = 8.4954 BTC [+]

21:13:38 ben_vulpes: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/10/obamas-effort-to-nudge-america-000276 << in which the department of statistics completely forgets about the challenges of untangling correlation from causation

21:13:40 assbot: Obama’s effort to ‘nudge’ America ... ( http://bit.ly/1MzzF05 )

21:13:51 mircea_popescu: lol

21:13:55 ben_vulpes: "The results: about 9 percent more poor students matriculated." << how would you know it's attributable to your work?

21:14:03 jurov: ben_vulpes: i'd say you are going at it in wrong direction

21:14:07 ben_vulpes: "but it still led to a $1.59 million increase in fees in one quarter" << how do you knoooow

21:14:23 ben_vulpes: try me, jurov. what's a better direction?

21:15:24 jurov: maybe i'll act on it myself, so i won't say now. but it's quite obvious.

21:16:11 mircea_popescu: lol the cutthroat pastecompetition

21:16:35 ben_vulpes: if you want it, take it!

21:16:44 ben_vulpes: all i want is a prophylactic against crlfs.

21:16:51 ben_vulpes: everything else is ego and vanity

21:17:08 jurov: oooooh. i wanted to see your megasuperdevstack in action, tho

21:17:17 ben_vulpes: no js in this thing.

21:17:36 ben_vulpes: no js in tmsr~!

21:17:58 mircea_popescu: your life's work is not welcome here!

21:18:11 ben_vulpes: megasuperdevstack only makes sense in context of insane complexity of ui development, jurov.

21:18:17 mircea_popescu: this is really not a bad motto for b-a ; the funny thing for me is how varied the reaction of people is as they encounter it in practice.

21:18:20 jurov: :)

21:18:30 ben_vulpes: tmsr~ needs ui like it needs people who need ui.

21:18:52 mircea_popescu: you know that ~ makes sense only if it's b,tmsr~

21:19:07 *: ben_vulpes sighs

21:19:13 mircea_popescu: otherwise it's like "the The Bank"

21:19:17 ben_vulpes: yes boss

21:19:38 ben_vulpes: (what else would it be the most serene republic of, though?)

21:19:53 mircea_popescu: ~ is not "of"

21:20:15 ben_vulpes: ack

21:21:57 mircea_popescu: ~ in this context is an interesting thing : a postprocessor directive meaning "take the string before the first comma and put it in here to reconstruct the correct title of this item". so that "Fanny Fucksticks, The Enchanted Travels Of ~" becomes "The Enchanted Travels Of Fanny Fucksticks".

21:22:18 mircea_popescu: the reason for this is that so many titles start with The in english that it debalanced the sorting tree (implemented in nature as shelves)

21:22:37 mircea_popescu: this ties into the discussion about nazis and their de-facto paper-processing computing

21:22:50 mircea_popescu: ie http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-12-2015#1352309

21:22:50 assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 19:32:46; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other gestapo did not suffer from delusions of machine learning!1111111111 to help them process somehow infinite tips into an edible portion

21:22:57 mircea_popescu: in fact, machine learning is older than automatons.

21:23:37 ben_vulpes: (it is the root of cognition, no?) "usually this makes the food happen"

21:23:55 mircea_popescu: kinda why i stuck it in there - bitcoin has deeper roots than commonly realised.

21:24:20 ben_vulpes: anyways jurov if i had an inkling that someone would do it besides myself i'd not have done it in the first place. if you want the thing on your plate, lmk, otherwise if you have an obvious solution you're not holding out for paste-opoly also let me know.

21:26:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35378 @ 0.00050428 = 17.8404 BTC [-] {2}

21:26:53 jurov: heh, not like pastebin is some crucial piece

21:28:38 ben_vulpes: which is why i think it should be hammered out and left alone at the earliest possible moment.

21:29:04 mircea_popescu: tru

21:29:42 mircea_popescu: thinking about it : the one thing i like about dpaste in preference of uploading files is that i don't have to provide a filename.

21:29:53 mircea_popescu: or, more generally : that it's like clearisgn and not like detached signature.

21:31:11 ben_vulpes: (it's just a fucking latrine that needs digging)

21:32:18 mircea_popescu: the thing i fucking hate about dpaste is the dumbass "select data type" and that they think text is "plain text" and starts with a p.\

21:33:04 ben_vulpes: mhm

21:34:34 jurov: i'm not hellbound to having it. my idea was to accept anything, signed or not, make it available for a week, and put older pastes behind a paywall

21:35:11 jurov: i suspect ben_vulpes is not up for that kind of latrine anyway :D

21:37:17 mircea_popescu: ahahaha paywall dpaste

21:37:44 mircea_popescu: how to cheaply and efficiently ensure the ire of people in the wot : charge them for their own shit.

21:38:29 ben_vulpes: jurov: why'd i not be?

21:38:37 jurov: just guessing

21:38:57 jurov: it needs more attention than fire and forget

21:39:06 ben_vulpes: zing

21:45:30 mircea_popescu: "We received conflicting advice from lots of smart people about which is more important. We focused on engagement, which we improved by orders of magnitude. No one cared."

21:46:14 mircea_popescu: check it out, "engagement" went up by 9% / 1.59 mn in one quarter.

21:46:31 mircea_popescu: how THE FUCK do you increase engagement and no one cares.

21:50:03 mircea_popescu: Title: How My Startup Failed Product: Condom Key Chains

21:50:14 mircea_popescu: "today in Cheez Today"

21:52:05 mircea_popescu: ~

21:52:08 mircea_popescu: "And this worked really well for foursquare thanks to the mayorship. If I tell someone I?m the mayor of a spot, I?m in an instant conversation: ?What makes you the mayor?? ?That?s lame, I?m there way more than you? ?What do you get for being mayor??. Compare that to talking about Gowalla: ?I just swapped this sticker of a bike for a sticker of a six pack of beer! What? Yes, I am still a virgin?.

21:52:08 mircea_popescu: See the difference? Make some aspect of your product easy and fun to talk about, and make it unique."

21:52:45 mircea_popescu: that's exactly not it. the difference is that the former STOLE something. a little bit of something, and something that wasn't well bolted down by a legal process. 300 years ago you'd go to jail for pretending to be the mayor ; even today you can go to jail for pretending to be a cop.

21:52:56 mircea_popescu: that's mostly what these things peddle : a particular sort of theft.

21:53:07 mircea_popescu: also why they're fundamentally worthless.

22:11:10 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/46ab645fc84d49749873b4ae26b26c2f/tumblr_n7v3p9OYIG1qerpoyo1_400.jpg

22:11:11 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKOTaH )

22:11:20 mircea_popescu: http://itsnotokokcupid.tumblr.com sauce pretty lulzy too

22:11:21 assbot: It's Not OK, OkCupid ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKOTrh )

22:28:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353065 << 'v' lives and dies by detached signatures. and i'm not implementing payload mutilation in 'p.' and i won't be using anything that mutilates payloads if i can help it, ever.

22:28:27 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:31:04; mircea_popescu: you see me using "detached signatures" ?

22:28:57 asciilifeform: 'clearsign' of whatever scheme for machine-readable data suxx.

22:29:04 asciilifeform: for entirely fundamental reasons,.

22:29:52 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353071 << if you must have one file, gpg --armour it. or tar it. whatever.

22:29:52 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:35:32; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353048 << no. this is a color of bits issue ; i couldn't care less what the technological constraints [appear to] be. a contract is a single item, not a text and a separate signature.

22:30:07 asciilifeform: but can we have a final bullet in the head of ascii mutilation and magical dashes ?

22:30:14 mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong with v as is.

22:30:31 mircea_popescu: but a gpg would-be replacement that doesn't have clearsign is not actually usable as a replacement

22:30:39 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353073 << not for any of my use cases. i wanna paste from a shell without unsheathing my pgptron

22:30:39 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:38:47; ben_vulpes: punkman, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: destestable though they may be for injecting state into the stateless protocol, would a single "signin" page with an assbot-style decryption of OTP that results in a session key authenticating the user to the perlwad be an improvement, and are there better solutions i'm not considering? anonymous drive-by pasting is not a better solution imho.

22:30:55 asciilifeform: and i don't see any reason to sign a disposable, ephemeral turd.

22:30:58 asciilifeform: i don't sign my farts either.

22:31:46 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353078 << this works until usg or even a demented sysop is involved: you can derive pubkey from ciphertext

22:31:46 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:41:26; mircea_popescu: how about this : only accept gpg-encrypted communications, and only distribute the pubkey to people you like.

22:32:01 mircea_popescu: so i said.

22:34:58 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353156 << it is worth thinking about ~why~ folks - including even mircea_popescu, yes - actually use pastebinatrons

22:34:58 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 21:08:22; mircea_popescu: in short, i wisened up to the fact that this particular thing is of the "go big or go home" variety and insistence on peculiar versions of small are a waste of time.

22:36:12 mircea_popescu: honestly, i started using it in b-a. it is, for me, a replacement of email.

22:36:49 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353205 << or log in, or motherfucking decrypt anything, or hit more than one button !!1111

22:36:49 assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 21:29:42; mircea_popescu: thinking about it : the one thing i like about dpaste in preference of uploading files is that i don't have to provide a filename.

22:37:04 mircea_popescu: aha.

22:38:44 asciilifeform: what's wrong with tar as a 'clearsign' bottle ?

22:39:16 mircea_popescu: i can't read tar.

22:39:21 asciilifeform: sure you can

22:39:25 mircea_popescu: ...

22:39:38 asciilifeform: don't take my word for it. go dump a tar of ascii text to console

22:39:45 asciilifeform: perfectly readable.

22:39:53 mircea_popescu: you understand, i hope you do but if you don't i'll explain it, that the only - THE ONLY - reason for literacy is so you can read contracts.

22:40:08 mircea_popescu: if it were the case that contracts came in '|tar bottles" reading plain english would be as useful as reading latin.

22:40:13 mircea_popescu: and literacy would be defined as "reading tar"

22:40:15 mircea_popescu: do you ?

22:40:36 asciilifeform: literacy is already defined as 'reading this set of hieroglyphs'

22:40:50 mircea_popescu: so your idea of a working gpg is "everyone must learn new alphabet now" ?

22:40:54 asciilifeform: mno

22:41:00 mircea_popescu: it'd better not be.

22:43:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79000 @ 0.00050428 = 39.8381 BTC [-]

22:49:23 mircea_popescu: why the everloving fuck is sed -n '/\/start\//,/end/p' dump out the whole pipe instead of just the stuff between /start/ and end ?

22:55:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why did you escape out the fwdslashes ?

22:56:16 asciilifeform: sed -n '/start/,/end/p'

22:56:26 mircea_popescu: i want it to match /start/ not start

22:56:31 asciilifeform: Ah

22:56:38 mircea_popescu: "for the obvious reason"

22:56:59 mircea_popescu: the #1 most frustrating thing known to man is when computers don't do what you expect them to do.

22:57:06 mircea_popescu: somehow more annoying than when women don't.

22:57:08 *: asciilifeform mildly horrified that mircea_popescu found himself doing this

22:57:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i gotta keep up with you young folk!

22:57:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32728 @ 0.00050512 = 16.5316 BTC [+] {3}

22:57:51 mircea_popescu: what am i to be like one of those us military base commanders that can't run a quarter mile ?

23:02:42 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you accept use of a token in headers for use from cli?

23:02:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wai wat

23:03:41 asciilifeform: i don't want to replace my toilet with an authenticated one, either, y'know ?

23:03:55 asciilifeform: i don't want to need to imprint turds with a seal before flushing.

23:04:09 ben_vulpes: that i understand.

23:04:09 asciilifeform: or sign every scrap of paper i put in the shredder

23:04:16 ben_vulpes: yes yes yes you drama queen

23:04:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00050366 = 27.0969 BTC [-] {4}

23:05:57 ben_vulpes: i am just looking for a sane balance between toilet for the mob and useful tool for the wot.

23:07:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85650 @ 0.00050273 = 43.0588 BTC [-] {3}

23:08:19 ben_vulpes: trinque suggested not-trivially-enumerable endpoints for wotmembers, eg engage in a brief gpggram session one time, yields a wotpaste/my-difficult-to-enumerate-endpoint place for individuals to post textwads to

23:08:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20435 @ 0.00050263 = 10.2712 BTC [-] {2}

23:09:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73265 @ 0.00050123 = 36.7226 BTC [-] {2}

23:09:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sed -n '/\/start\//,/\/end\//p' will work, but it prints crud prior to start or after end ~if on same line~

23:10:04 asciilifeform: and what's more, afaik you cannot get around this in gnu sed.

23:10:10 asciilifeform: gotta use awk (or, horror, perl)

23:10:39 asciilifeform: because, again, the whole 'plain text' jwzism and the attendant retardation. somehow 'lines' are a thing.

23:15:12 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: part of the appeal of running a 'pastebin' ~is~ the crud dropped in by the mob. for instance, there is a long tradition of dropping 0days and leaked misc crud on pastebin.

23:17:07 asciilifeform: and i still insist that the 'clearness' of 'clearsign' is a jwzism. NO YOU CAN'T actually read the payload 'without tools'. yes, you can put it to a line printer, and get a human-readable page. BUT it will not be WHAT YOU SIGNED! not bitwise, and not mandatorily, and therefore not at all.

23:17:16 asciilifeform: you still need a computer to read 'plain ascii'

23:17:31 asciilifeform: and we still don't have agreement - yes, even among unixlines - how to actually display 'plain text'

23:17:36 asciilifeform: or how to process it consistently

23:17:40 asciilifeform: *unixlikes

23:19:10 asciilifeform: this whole discussion, every time we have it, really mirrors in my mind the debates i've had with greyhaired non-programming folk who insisted on 'one day we will program in NATURAL LANGUAGE!11111'

23:27:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87100 @ 0.00050593 = 44.0665 BTC [+] {4}

23:29:28 mircea_popescu: oook, anyone wanna guess what this does :

23:29:32 mircea_popescu: cat fucksticks.txt | sort -u | while read line; do curl -A "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/20.0" --cookie "session=185406475447611750%3a13562327112394530656;secure_check=1;authlink=8e9808c6;__cfduid=de2158114156a0b38260969e145b2ca9e1450046931" "https://www.okcupid.com/profile/$line" | sed 's/profile_similar/\n\n/g' | sed 's/href/\n\n/g' | grep 'cf=' | grep "/profile/" | sed 's/="\

23:29:32 mircea_popescu: /profile\///g' | sed 's/?cf=//g' >> fucksticks.

23:30:30 mircea_popescu: more importantly, anyone bored can kill themselves figuring out why the fuck i have to do two passes of sed interspersed with a grep to get the dumbass thing to work as intended.

23:31:13 asciilifeform: ugh

23:32:13 mircea_popescu: aha!

23:32:24 mircea_popescu: this is what programming is. fucking tarpit.

23:32:28 mircea_popescu: and you want me to read more tar ?

23:33:03 asciilifeform: in the same spirit, have another!:

23:33:21 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/samecat/foo.txt http://www.loper-os.org/pub/samecat/bar.txt

23:33:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1YGZhzf )

23:33:23 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1YGZjqR )

23:33:26 asciilifeform: prints same with 'cat'

23:33:31 asciilifeform: entirely different contents.

23:33:38 *: mircea_popescu looks

23:33:49 asciilifeform: not mega-trick. but works.

23:34:44 asciilifeform: granted, hex editor will show you immediately why. but the 'plain text is readable without tools' illusion is - just that

23:34:55 mircea_popescu: a yea, iirc we even had a discussion about scripts doing ^H etc here, with a link and everything.

23:35:00 asciilifeform: possibly

23:35:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22982 @ 0.00051011 = 11.7233 BTC [+] {3}

23:36:56 mircea_popescu: note however that you can't rely on me reading the "clearsigned" thing with any particular mechanism.

23:37:07 mircea_popescu: for all you know i do read it in a byte editor.

23:37:11 asciilifeform: aha

23:37:32 asciilifeform: at which point the supposed advantage of the 'plainness' is nowhere to be found

23:37:34 mircea_popescu: so this entire "unix terminal is retarded" thing isn't as much of a concern

23:37:38 mircea_popescu: how so ?

23:39:00 asciilifeform: because if you want to avoid 'malleability', now you have to actually use a tool that shows you the bytes.

23:39:07 asciilifeform: incl. the nonprintable ones.

23:40:21 mircea_popescu: ideally, clearsign would reject anything but ascii.

23:40:38 asciilifeform: well, it'd necessarily have to be more narrow than ascii

23:40:46 mircea_popescu: "these are your father's letters"

23:40:47 asciilifeform: (in having magical words)

23:40:54 mircea_popescu: hm ?

23:41:11 asciilifeform: either the start/end marker (as in traditional gpg) or length offset marker (as somebody suggested here)

23:41:27 asciilifeform: but in no case could i be ~guaranteed~ of signing an arbitrary ascii string without mutilation

23:41:29 mircea_popescu: - is not ascii

23:41:35 asciilifeform: sure as fuck is

23:42:20 asciilifeform: unless they have a different character set on mars, also called ascii, where - is not 45

23:42:30 mircea_popescu: to put it sanely-er : i'm more than happy to redefine "ascii" for clearsign to include a subset of ascii

23:42:38 asciilifeform: telex!

23:42:54 mircea_popescu: quite

23:42:58 mircea_popescu: i lived just fine with telex.

23:43:13 *: asciilifeform looks forward to using mircea_popescu's p-block for telex clearsigs.

23:43:35 asciilifeform: in fact, whole point of 'p' originally in my head was so that mircea_popescu could have these.

23:43:45 mircea_popescu: honestly, in my mind i realise now, gpg --clearisng has taken over a hole left by telex.

23:43:49 mircea_popescu: quite exactly.

23:43:53 mircea_popescu: ha!

23:44:54 asciilifeform: http://cheshirecatalyst.com/p-telex.html << for n00bz

23:44:55 assbot: Cheshire's Introduction to Telex ... ( http://bit.ly/22s8KPE )

23:46:40 asciilifeform: http://nemesis.lonestar.org/reference/telecom/codes/baudot.html << moar.

23:46:42 assbot: Baudot Character Code Reference ... ( http://bit.ly/22s8PTk )

23:47:26 mircea_popescu: some telex machines were distinctive enough that after years one could really tell wtf the message says from across the room

23:47:34 mircea_popescu: sorta between morse and slow modem

23:47:59 asciilifeform: mechanized morse really

23:48:42 mircea_popescu: pretty much

23:48:48 mircea_popescu: "fire lizzie, too many holes"

23:52:31 asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo is anybody gonna qntra the juniper crud ?

23:52:31 gribble: The operation succeeded.

23:54:06 asciilifeform: in other nyooz,

23:54:16 asciilifeform: 'The Committee supports substantially enhancing and expediting efforts to deter the insider threat and believes doing so will require an integrated counterintelligence and security apparatus that spans the IC and the U.S. Government. Additionally, the Committee believes the IC's information technology modernization effort--the IC Information Technology Enterprise--must provide the infrastructure to detect insider threats earli

23:54:16 asciilifeform: er, more effectively, and more reliably. (See page 24 for more information on the IC Information Technology Enterprise, otherwise known as ``IC ITE.'') Robust counterintelligence data and analytic tools to monitor, analyze, and audit personnel behavior will be critical to this endeavor.'

23:54:23 asciilifeform: can't wait for the politruks !

23:55:23 mircea_popescu: mmmkay...

23:56:47 asciilifeform: http://www.sovunion.info/posters/listovky/197.jpg << german leaflet

23:56:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1YH0VRn )

23:57:14 asciilifeform: http://www.sovunion.info/posters/listovky/200.jpg << same

23:57:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1YH0Zk4 )

23:57:32 asciilifeform: http://www.sovunion.info/posters/listovky/199.jpg << ditto

23:57:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1YH11IS )