Transcript for 26-07-2017, 341 lines:
00:00:09 asciilifeform: kakobrekla lying pice of shit, replacing my words in log
00:03:55 asciilifeform: how'd you like it if i had bots idle here and point every newly logged in user to #trilема.
00:04:18 kakobrekla: you dont need bots, you already do it by hand
00:05:17 kakobrekla: anyway, im not lying.
00:12:23 kakobrekla: if you see a fraud and you dont shout fraud you are a fraud, what can i tell you
00:16:13 asciilifeform: attributing words to me, that i did not utter, is plain fraud, and nukes whatever moral ground kakobrekla had any claim to.
00:17:05 kakobrekla: its not about you, its just that his particular log-reader amends one particular world to one that describes it better
00:17:25 kakobrekla: his/this
00:17:32 kakobrekla: world/word
00:17:48 kakobrekla: wake me up when i can type
00:20:44 asciilifeform: replaces, not amends
00:20:49 kakobrekla: amends.
00:21:18 asciilifeform: attributes words to me that i did not type, lying sack of shit
00:21:38 kakobrekla: i fixed it for you, you should say thank you
00:22:22 asciilifeform: https://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-07-2017#1473764 << looks same
00:22:22 assbot: Logged on 25-07-2017 15:22:52; asciilifeform: PsychoticBoy: he lives in #fraudsters, why dontcha ask him.
00:22:28 asciilifeform: in www log
00:22:36 kakobrekla: yes, i fixed the word in the log for you
00:22:58 asciilifeform: punkman et al : this is the nonsense tou stand for, by standing with this joker.
00:23:04 asciilifeform: *you
00:23:34 kakobrekla: look, you are a group of fraudsters, i feel bad sending any more innocent people there
00:23:53 asciilifeform: and so you fuck with the log.
00:24:03 asciilifeform: a new low
00:24:53 asciilifeform: have fun taking this to the logical conclusion, kakobrekla
00:24:55 kakobrekla: look at it as censoring spam
00:25:03 asciilifeform: why not remove mo entirely
00:25:06 asciilifeform: mp
00:25:11 asciilifeform: remove me next
00:25:22 asciilifeform: remove all but own idiot spew, why not
00:25:24 kakobrekla: i bet you will remove yourself soon enough
00:26:24 asciilifeform: if kakobrekla wants to be remembered as lying sack of shit with no trace of intellectual honesty - that is his choice to make.
00:26:36 kakobrekla: cry me a river
00:26:51 asciilifeform: up to now i still saw him as having a point, of sort.
00:27:12 kakobrekla: i dont care what you think :)
00:27:34 asciilifeform: gonna snip this convo from logs too?
00:27:44 kakobrekla: nah
00:27:54 kakobrekla: i dont snip anything
00:28:04 asciilifeform: again with the lying.
00:28:23 kakobrekla: what did i 'snip' again?
00:28:38 asciilifeform: bytes from my log line.
00:28:52 kakobrekla: amended.
00:29:11 asciilifeform: with name of chan where the folks who aren't lying sacks of shit, live.
00:29:37 kakobrekla: thats what you think sure
00:29:46 asciilifeform: punkman, pankkake , adlai logged in and can diff.
00:29:56 kakobrekla: diff diff!
00:30:52 asciilifeform: i find it interesting that kakobrekla took time off from his casino hookers to push this nonsense.
00:31:02 kakobrekla: it took 5 sec
00:33:33 kakobrekla: oh oh almost forgot, usg and nsa paid me to do it!!
00:33:43 kakobrekla: or whoever it was
01:18:58 kakobrekla: btw among other absurdities, for someone who only leeches from this place you give awful amount of damn over this :)
01:28:22 kakobrekla: possible exit scam on btc-e btw
01:29:23 kakobrekla: though for now i think its just incompetency
02:39:03 lobbes: https://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2017#1473776 << making assbot shout 'fraudster!' when tri.lema is mentioned would be one thing, but misrepresenting what someone said in a public log is... fraudulent! By definition
02:39:03 assbot: Logged on 26-07-2017 00:12:23; kakobrekla: if you see a fraud and you dont shout fraud you are a fraud, what can i tell you
02:39:05 lobbes: which is exactly what alf said: https://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2017#1473777
02:39:05 assbot: Logged on 26-07-2017 00:16:13; asciilifeform: attributing words to me, that i did not utter, is plain fraud, and nukes whatever moral ground kakobrekla had any claim to.
02:39:14 lobbes: you ain't making sense, kako
08:51:03 punkman: lol girl saw screen, said "wtf are they fighting about", "dunno haven't read it yet"
08:53:17 punkman: ok, that's a bit unsavoury, but points for trolling
09:23:27 pankkake: oh that's what it was about
09:24:02 pankkake: why no poopescu?
09:25:38 adlai: kakobrekla: look, i had a chuckle, but this is more on the level of an "april fool's" gag. leaving this running indefinitely is just kinda... butthurt.
09:26:54 pankkake: yeah
09:27:08 adlai: fwiw, who other than mp do you consider a fraudster? iirc, nobody else stepped up to ratify mp's final bbet statement; the consensus seems to be "kako and mp can't get along, we'll lurk in one channel or the other"
09:27:45 pankkake: it's more about which delusion to follow
09:28:57 adlai: pun pact: hebrew translation of dawkins's "The God Delusion" is titled (and here i'm translating back to english, but literally rather than editorially): "Is There [a] God?", complete with question mark!
09:30:38 adlai: also it is possible to listen/read without either believing the content to be true, or even making an ironclad "author is [un]deluded" determination. some claims fall outside the audience's ability to validate.
09:43:04 punkman: adlai: how about those fucked up log lines you pointed out, are they still there?
09:45:03 adlai: which? there've been lots of fuckage. the one that chuckled me best was with the search:
09:45:11 adlai: !s from:bitcoin_charlie
09:46:01 punkman: ah only fucked in search then
09:47:03 adlai: yeah, like how the innocent ignorami are only shielded from fraudsters in the web
11:30:02 kakobrekla: good morning kids
11:30:12 kakobrekla: the ping machine says the baby is still alive
11:34:34 kakobrekla: adlai, im trying to wrap my head around this; you are saying, a 'scammer' does not exist, every scam ever is "two or more parties that cant get along very well"?
11:34:38 kakobrekla: am i reading this right?
12:09:50 kakobrekla: also interesting is
12:10:03 assbot: Logged on 22-07-2017 20:02:44; asciilifeform: hey kakobrekla why didja delinkify the links in yer log
12:10:03 assbot: Logged on 26-07-2017 00:28:38; asciilifeform: bytes from my log line.
12:10:30 kakobrekla: you do realize that linkifying will change your bytes as they come off the wire.
12:10:52 kakobrekla: and i assume you are ok with it because those can be interpreted in such a way you end up with the original string
12:11:35 kakobrekla: correct me if im wrong here, but it appears you dont have any issue with changing your bytes, because like with links, you can easily interpret #fraudsters as well
12:11:48 kakobrekla: you do have an issue with what is being changed however, and we can talk about it
12:12:40 pankkake: this is splitting hairs and is going to lead to the most boring alf/kako discussion in history
12:13:10 kakobrekla: haha
12:42:33 pankkake: https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/07/26/major-darknet-host-hacked-data-exfiltrated/ <= another amateurish darknet marketplace. why even do that if you're not hosting yourself
12:42:48 pankkake: > The hacker uploaded a text file named kek.txt
12:43:15 kakobrekla: lolwat
12:45:21 kakobrekla: gg
12:48:16 kakobrekla: TBL from W3C for DRM in HTML5
12:59:02 punkman: it's already there
12:59:15 kakobrekla: is it?
12:59:37 punkman: if I open spotify in firefox it says "fuck off unless you enable widevine drm" or something
13:04:13 kakobrekla: name is suspiciously similar to 'dildo'
13:07:17 pankkake: the internet is for porn after all
13:50:24 kakobrekla: hum
13:50:47 kakobrekla: bixin is apparently a pool, havent heard of them i dont think
13:52:05 kakobrekla: > Operation Manager, Chuanzhen Yu < sounds chinese
13:52:11 kakobrekla: zomg double konspiraci
14:25:22 pankkake: at this point I wonder how many people hope BCC becomes a thing just to sell it
14:25:38 pankkake: I suppose if it's worth something I'll make the effort
14:28:52 kakobrekla: 0.1 per
14:31:27 pankkake: I suppose it implies leaving your btc there until the fork happens
14:32:05 kakobrekla: does it?
14:32:18 pankkake: I don't see how it could work otherwise
14:32:36 kakobrekla: you send it btc, buy bcc and wait for phork to be able to withdraw bcc
14:32:59 pankkake: oh right, in that way - but who provides the bcc? that's what I want to sell
14:33:34 pankkake: or maybe only viabtc is selling for now
14:33:50 kakobrekla: that possible
14:34:04 kakobrekla: or yeah, you lock btc if you sell bcc
16:19:07 pankkake: it wouldn't be a normal year without an exchange fuckup. at least I'll win a bet :p
16:19:59 pankkake: 4 BILLION? how is this even possible?
16:20:13 Apocalyptic: pankkake, since 2011
16:20:19 Apocalyptic: plenty of time
16:20:57 pankkake: must be pretty serious organized crime to have those billions to launder
16:21:26 pankkake: or maybe I underestimate what they make
16:21:49 kakobrekla: maybe 4bn is all the traffic ever on btce?
16:22:05 kakobrekla: all the 'volume'
16:22:18 Apocalyptic: that would be way too low
16:22:23 kakobrekla: would it?
16:23:07 pankkake: especially with all the altcoin trading
16:23:18 Apocalyptic: early on they were doing tens of millions per day in trading volume afaik
16:23:32 Apocalyptic: across all alts paris
16:23:36 Apocalyptic: *pairs
16:29:11 scatha: dictionary: "laundering money" = moving money without declaring each and every transaction to the USG
16:29:46 scatha: so, bascially, Bitcoin transactions which would be worth today $4B have happened on BTC-e without them sending the database to the USG
16:29:53 scatha: that's how i translate the news
16:30:07 scatha: Is that correct?
16:30:52 kakobrekla: they can really know about all btc txes beforehand dissecting the server (and even then...)
16:30:56 kakobrekla: cant*
16:31:19 kakobrekla: they can bug their fiat partners about it though
16:31:58 scatha: The other big question: What business has the USG in Russia ?
16:32:36 kakobrekla: bbbut drumpf is friends with putin
16:33:19 scatha: As in "If you succumb to what I tell you, you will stay my friend" ?
16:33:52 kakobrekla: possibly
16:34:03 kakobrekla: i dont follow that show too closely
16:34:52 scatha: Well... I'm shocked, and I would even be shocked If i had no serious money sitting on that exchange, but sadly I have (yeah right sorry your loss)
16:36:42 scatha: The busts of SR and Alphabay were shocking, too, except in that case I had nothing at stake though.
16:37:00 scatha: How can the USG possibly believe they own all the Bitcoin on there?
16:39:13 kakobrekla: oh you had buttcoins there?
16:39:39 scatha: well, fiat waiting to buy back coins
16:39:50 scatha: basically.
16:40:16 kakobrekla: they only had some weird payment system for fiat-in and fiat-out iirc?
16:40:17 scatha: a huge leveraged short would have been better though- as I have been planning
16:40:41 kakobrekla: try bitmex for that
16:41:13 kakobrekla: i dont know how long they will be able to stay above water with being btc only though
16:41:26 scatha: they have muliple payment systems- and until 2015 or so it was the only exchange where you could send/receive fiat without all the "documentation/AML" annoyance
16:41:46 kakobrekla: no sepa though yea?
16:41:54 scatha: it was SEPA, yes.
16:42:00 kakobrekla: even for withdrawals?
16:42:06 kakobrekla: ah ok didnt know
16:42:33 kakobrekla: i still use otc for all my exchange needs
16:42:35 scatha: bitmex?.. not heard of it, must be new --- i have been using 1broker.com but they dropped the BTC/USD pair
16:42:40 kakobrekla: no need for dox by the law.
16:42:57 kakobrekla: not new no
16:43:04 kakobrekla: they been around for a while
16:43:17 scatha: OTC versus cash or bank balance?... if bank balance they will get suspicious if there are large transactions.
16:43:26 kakobrekla: had generally a good experience with them
16:43:47 kakobrekla: bank transfers
16:44:04 kakobrekla: they can get suspicious but, i speak for myself, am not breaking any laws
16:44:07 scatha: interesting, thanks, bitmex looks good, i'll try it
16:44:31 kakobrekla: q: "what are these txes here?"
16:44:36 kakobrekla: a: "btc otc"
16:44:43 kakobrekla: q: "a ok. carray on."
16:44:51 kakobrekla: carry*
16:45:24 scatha: Just 3 weeks ago, someone told me they have shut down his bank account for "ML" investiagion - and he had onyl 100k€ TURNOVER - not profit
16:45:38 kakobrekla: where? us?
16:45:41 scatha: Germany
16:45:45 kakobrekla: interesting
16:46:07 kakobrekla: lemme know how that goes if you will please
16:46:11 scatha: here, bank cashier was asking me what I wanted to do with the money when I withdrew only 5k€ in cash
16:46:19 scatha: they are nasty
16:47:26 kakobrekla: i got poked at once but it was basically like i described
16:47:45 scatha: and in which country are you?
16:48:01 kakobrekla: slovenia
16:48:09 scatha: beacuse, if the dialogue happens as you you tell me, it's really kewl
16:48:14 scatha: not far away :)
16:48:19 kakobrekla: nope
16:48:46 kakobrekla: its a boutique country
16:48:51 kakobrekla: maybe thats why it is like that
16:49:01 scatha: also recently, I depostied 10k€ (cash) in a bank in Hungary, they asked for passport but didn't ask where the money came from. So- still a little better than in poor old Germany.
16:49:24 kakobrekla: i actually use one german bank also
16:49:31 kakobrekla: no issues, so far.
16:49:31 scatha: But you are not German
16:49:34 kakobrekla: yea
16:49:36 scatha: so it's different.
16:49:43 scatha: They are not "responsible" for you
16:49:46 kakobrekla: :D
16:50:31 scatha: But if 100k€ turnover is an issue, I better not want to mess with the banks.
16:50:45 scatha: as in peer-to-peer sales.
16:51:25 kakobrekla: hm yeah
16:51:44 kakobrekla: sturles has been doing 200k per month in one of his accounts for years now
16:51:44 scatha: And the sheeple never even see the problem of that AML stuff. They think it's "only terrorists" they are after- it's not terrorists it's control over citizens.
16:51:51 kakobrekla: and havent had issues so far afaik
16:51:54 scatha: hmm nice :)
16:52:19 kakobrekla: they have 'personal' accounts capped at 200k
16:52:29 kakobrekla: so when he hits that he must spill over to other acc
16:52:37 scatha: :O
16:52:57 kakobrekla: yeah, arbitrary caps ftw
16:54:18 scatha: What are the "tax rules" in Slovenia ? .. Here it's still a grey area, nobody knows anything.
16:54:30 scatha: Denmark are cool! ... it's all "private"
16:54:37 kakobrekla: btc is a currency and trading currency is tax free
16:55:00 scatha: even if you don't hold for a year? .. great !
16:55:03 kakobrekla: however, get this, mining is taxed at 50% :D
16:55:11 kakobrekla: yeah you dont have to hold
16:55:14 scatha: mining is income tax?
16:55:26 kakobrekla: hm
16:55:42 scatha: thanks, that's interesting to hear
16:56:22 kakobrekla: well its classified as something that would be poorly translated as 'gainful activity'
16:56:31 kakobrekla: i dont know what would be a better term
16:56:46 kakobrekla: its stupid, nobody will report it anyway.
16:57:24 scatha: well, here it's officially tax free after 1 year holding period- but how to "prove"?.. and what if you trade altcoins?... all very complicated.
16:57:35 kakobrekla: yeah
16:57:47 scatha: i've been trying to take out as little as possible and leave everything in "crypto zone" - BitShares is great for example.
16:58:03 kakobrekla: i dunno what that is
16:58:12 kakobrekla: brb need to make some food
16:59:07 scatha: BitShares ?... it's an on-chain trading platform that was created already in the beginning of 2014 and, as opposed to Ether, WORKS because it's been through it's Alpha release stage
17:00:04 scatha: it has fully backed assets that are like futures, on USD, EUR, Silver, Gold. with enough volume to make the useful
17:00:54 scatha: also, of course, it has user-issued tokens that can be traded - similar to Omni - and it's fast
17:01:49 scatha: all on-chain tokens are denominated against Bitshares(BTS)
17:03:04 scatha: so it is perhaps like a predecessor of ETH, except it's simpler.
17:05:20 kakobrekla: how do you back stuff that is not on the blockchain
17:09:04 scatha: They are backed with a certain amount of BTS by the issuers who issue them by lending it into existence against at least a 2x amount of BTS as collateral... Any user can do that.. (( actually all this is off-topic on this channel isn't it ? ))
17:09:38 scatha: The peg has actually been holding pretty well, and long -term
17:10:06 scatha: as opposed to NuBits which had a big breakdown (no surprise, they ARE in fact structured like a Ponzi)
17:11:48 scatha: How does the system know how many BTS an USD (Silver, whatever) is worth? It's the traders that know it, and it's in their interest to stick to it because otherwise they will statistically lose
17:12:12 kakobrekla: hm
17:12:22 scatha: to everyone's surprise, it works ;)
17:12:36 kakobrekla: why would you issue a thing there?
17:12:40 kakobrekla: whats the upside
17:12:49 scatha: mostly, to bet on a rising BTC price
17:12:52 scatha: BTS* price**
17:13:00 scatha: the former, too,
17:13:19 kakobrekla: but then you can just hold bts?
17:13:41 scatha: yes, indeed- as I say I'm surprised that it works, and you are sure asking good questions.
17:14:30 kakobrekla: its not clear to me still
17:14:37 scatha: if you issue, for example, BitUSD, and BTS rises, you can later buy back your BitUSD for an even smaller amount of BTS so you have a leverage.
17:14:44 kakobrekla: also is there a central authority that takes the collateral?
17:14:52 kakobrekla: and not gives it back in case of x?
17:14:54 scatha: the central authority is the blockchain.
17:15:10 kakobrekla: in what case you lose collateral?
17:15:52 scatha: yes, in that case you lose the BTS, and the short-position is either force-closed on the market, or, if not possible, the BitUSD holder recieves BTS as last resort.
17:16:39 kakobrekla: ok but how does blockchain decide to fuck you over?
17:17:00 kakobrekla: i guess you can say go rtfm
17:17:10 scatha: that i have not fully understood.
17:18:04 scatha: they have some "feed price" whatever that means- it's calculated from previous trades i guess.
17:19:40 scatha: It's actually the earliest attempt at a decentralized market.
17:22:00 punkman: oh shit btc-e guy arrested in greece huh
17:22:56 punkman: they had a good run didn't they
17:23:06 scatha: punkman, have you got anything at stake on BTC-e ?
17:23:23 punkman: never used it
17:23:26 kakobrekla: yeah punkman what did you do!
17:24:08 punkman: punkman gets a haircut, exchange goes down
17:24:12 punkman: chaos!
17:24:15 kakobrekla: :D
17:24:41 kakobrekla: not the financial haircut i take it
17:25:15 scatha: "They cut my hair !" "Sorry, your loss !"
17:26:07 scatha: need to go soon, practicing for the chorus
17:27:24 kakobrekla: what kind?
17:35:36 kakobrekla: oh lol
17:36:01 *: kakobrekla falls over
17:36:58 punkman: lol good twist
17:37:09 pankkake: :O
17:37:22 scatha: yeah right :O
17:39:38 pankkake: with looming forks and this, we're at peak drama, time for a new ATH
17:39:42 scatha: Okay. The USG goes to Greece, arrests a Russian man, and accuses him of stealing from a Japanese exchange. Yep, the USG sure is the saviour of the world. All Hail USG !
17:41:05 scatha: pankkake, yeah I suspeect an "ALL IS SAVED" rallie - till finally "reality" kicks in when everyone learns that they have gotten cheated upon. Again, and again.
17:42:04 kakobrekla: im at a loss, how does this mean rally?
17:42:19 punkman: btc runs on drama?
17:42:22 pankkake: yeah
17:42:49 kakobrekla: yeah it runs, just afaik you dont know which direction it will run to
17:42:51 pankkake: but I agree with scatha, I don't think these kind of events should affect price as it doesn't really change fundamentals or available supply (except for my theory that doesn't seem to work where huge losses should reduce the perceived supply of bitcoins and thus increase price)
17:44:25 kakobrekla: hah
17:45:13 scatha: my major point is, that, as long as nobody knows how this particular bit of news would influence the market, whales can set an impulse, and trend followers will jump in and cry "it's because this happened!"
17:45:52 scatha: too late to bet on that one now.
17:56:15 kakobrekla: yes you leech!!
17:56:17 kakobrekla: :D
18:01:35 Apocalyptic: interesting read, connecting gox, bitcoinica to btc-e
18:22:35 kakobrekla: gotta love the line going from 'mtgox (theft' to 'mtgox'
19:26:29 kakobrekla: >Update2: at the moment we are working on the restoration of service. Approximate terms from 5 to 10 days. Thanks for your understanding #btce
19:30:15 pankkake: dangerously close to two weeks
19:30:22 kakobrekla: l0l
19:49:44 scatha: Good article, Apocalyptic, yes
19:49:47 scatha: btw it's another instance of the "Russian Hackers" meme
20:04:18 scatha: Caveat: One of the first persons to propagate that article through Twitter was Charlie Shrem.
20:05:01 marginal: the great btc-e has fallen, what a shame
20:05:38 kakobrekla: its just brbing :D
20:05:57 marginal: yeah, this fud is too good to waste though
20:06:11 marginal: tons of noobs panicking right now
20:06:37 marginal: like me.. hold way too much ppc
20:08:24 kakobrekla: paypal coin?
20:08:38 kakobrekla: according to alf btc will take that role
20:08:48 kakobrekla: no need to hold a separate coin
20:29:47 scatha: kako, gimme hope, joanna
20:33:03 kakobrekla: haha
20:33:06 kakobrekla: mega song
21:48:17 kakobrekla: more of same
21:49:23 kakobrekla: its gonna be a race-to-sell
21:59:35 kakobrekla: lol
21:59:41 kakobrekla: We trust that our fellow community members will also behave with integrity and uphold agreements made, but in the unlikely event that the 2MB block size increase portion of Segwit2x fails to activate, Bitcoin.com will immediately shift all company resources to supporting Bitcoin Cash exclusively.
21:59:45 kakobrekla: fucking ver
21:59:59 kakobrekla: doing more harm than good since ever
23:37:39 scatha: Might be already "war on cryptocurrencies". They are really not acting fair any more.
23:38:02 kakobrekla: they be who?
23:38:24 scatha: "The war on drugs created more drugs. The war on terror created more terror. Let's see what happens when they go for money!"
23:38:34 kakobrekla: heh
23:38:37 scatha: "they" is most likely US agents and allies.
23:41:52 scatha: to me, it's unclear whether market opening is the best time to sell so-called "bitcoin cash" - it could go down at first because sellers, then get pumped
23:42:43 kakobrekla: yeah
23:42:56 kakobrekla: it will pump at peak FUD or when 2x part of segwit fails