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Transcript for 26-10-2014, 1650 lines:

00:00:53 kakobrekla: shopped

00:00:58 asciilifeform: lol, never!

00:01:20 asciilifeform: seekr1t propulsion mechanism revealed.

00:02:56 thestringpuller: !s turd

00:02:57 assbot: 374 results for 'turd' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=turd

00:05:52 danielpbarron: !up HFSPLUS

00:05:57 asciilifeform: !down HFSPLUS

00:06:00 asciilifeform: known idiot

00:06:08 asciilifeform: 1000 names

00:06:23 danielpbarron: oh.. i greped for his nick and ip..

00:06:25 asciilifeform: obnoxiously retarded

00:06:57 asciilifeform: suspected bot (what living thing is that persistent? possibly only mircea_popescu's jar mouse...)

00:07:06 kakobrekla: danielpbarron protip: do no work, do no sin.

00:07:27 mircea_popescu: wait wut ?

00:07:50 asciilifeform: 'meow mix' as jar mouse.

00:08:55 mircea_popescu: lol

00:09:28 mircea_popescu: in other news, i had excellent seafood in caviar sauce.

00:10:23 *: asciilifeform misses cheap soviet caviar (not 'cheapened', but actually cheap, on account of geography)

00:10:35 *: mircea_popescu recalls that.

00:10:44 mircea_popescu: used to get the nice sprots too.

00:10:49 asciilifeform: i still get these!

00:10:51 asciilifeform: importers.

00:10:55 mircea_popescu: not nearly as nice.

00:10:56 asciilifeform: same can, even.

00:11:06 mircea_popescu: yeah but i think they;'re faking the smoke

00:11:12 asciilifeform: they did for a while

00:11:21 asciilifeform: until proper smoke was quietly re-legalized

00:11:32 asciilifeform: post-2010 or so, real, afaik

00:11:43 mircea_popescu: unrelated : http://31.media.tumblr.com/06291c34f0d38f06ffe32399c076be35/tumblr_ndt569fpn01ra163eo1_500.jpg

00:11:46 *: asciilifeform checks sprat supply

00:11:47 kakobrekla: whats the story there ascii

00:12:40 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: for a spell, eu banned smoked foods (!) - because 'carcinogen' - and then latvia, eu circa '04, got the sharp end of the ban

00:13:08 asciilifeform: sprats (iconic canned fish, familiar to virtually all sovblok folks) started shipping with 'synthetic smoke'

00:13:17 asciilifeform: a terrible erzats

00:13:54 mircea_popescu: really it's the can. black and gold.

00:14:08 asciilifeform: i presently get my (and got the woman addicted likewise, when first met even) sprat fix from a german importer in wash. dc

00:14:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing really goes with vodka and olives

00:14:47 asciilifeform: lol

00:14:59 asciilifeform: there is no substitute for standard sprats. none.

00:15:14 *: asciilifeform counts three cans

00:15:17 jurov: are theses sprats cryptographically signed?

00:15:20 mircea_popescu: http://www.thecopydude.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/images/spratcan.jpg

00:15:33 asciilifeform: aha those are the plus-sizers!

00:15:35 mircea_popescu: jurov no, they're olphactorily signed

00:15:55 jurov: yes i like em too

00:16:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform similarly there's no substitute for salt pickles

00:16:07 mircea_popescu: wasabi

00:16:13 mircea_popescu: long list of specific food items

00:16:16 asciilifeform: hehe

00:16:36 mircea_popescu: can't make deviled eggs without salt pickles fro crying out loud

00:16:40 mircea_popescu: cookign is a lot like coding

00:17:00 asciilifeform: but more important.

00:17:12 chetty: ahhh grouper

00:17:15 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell cazalla http://38.media.tumblr.com/7ad4654847475e56874e1c73cb6d7c24/tumblr_n4ncm0tcwb1rm35woo2_r2_400.gif

00:17:16 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:17:44 cazalla: oh, it's a dude

00:18:17 mircea_popescu: http://33.media.tumblr.com/0ae9539266e74aeb2aac66691d6211fd/tumblr_n4ncm0tcwb1rm35woo6_r2_400.gif << b lack dongs see ?

00:18:19 mircea_popescu: they work wonders

00:18:39 asciilifeform: arse with eye? can see colour?

00:19:01 cazalla: his ass looks like it has labia

00:19:07 mircea_popescu: it can ~feel~ the color!

00:19:21 mircea_popescu: cazalla mostly because the feminine folds are adaptative rather than aesthetic

00:19:22 asciilifeform: champions of synaesthesia.

00:20:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://owl.ru/morits/stih/off-records142.htm << translator's challenge!

00:20:17 assbot: - -

00:20:46 mircea_popescu: but i am not a translator!1

00:20:51 asciilifeform: lellzies

00:21:22 cazalla: aren't they both?

00:23:57 mircea_popescu: Bomber with a bomb, off to kill you! If you're not an idiot, you'll shoot it down. Either you do, or it kills you! If it kills you, this brave plane, then he's a brave patriot and you're just as idiotically dead. On the contrary... well... it's a sore plane. Very sore plane. Otherwise, he died a patriot, flying a bomb your way, wanting to kill you. But lucky for you - you weren't an idiot.

00:24:00 chetty: два идиота

00:24:15 mircea_popescu: dva idiota should be a tattoo.

00:24:32 chetty: :D

00:25:43 cazalla: seems most men prefer little to no labia but given one of the first i saw was a beat to shit jpg from a bbs, i would argue labia certainly have an aesthetic quality about them

00:25:45 mircea_popescu: and ftr, stih is directly "verse" in romanian.

00:26:07 mircea_popescu: cazalla a preference of no labia is indicative of the pedo.

00:26:19 kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> and ftr, stih is directly "verse" in romanian. < same

00:26:43 mircea_popescu: let's celebrate! http://33.media.tumblr.com/f4470f90ceb68d4aa2cd5a3727563baa/tumblr_n4ncm0tcwb1rm35woo9_r1_400.gif

00:29:29 cazalla: makes me wonder why mr hands didn't opt for a toy like that, must've been the horse itself

00:33:27 cazalla: someone is determined to advertise nike air shoes on qntra

00:38:11 asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/qmZmz0Vc << approximate!

00:38:11 assbot: The Idiot and the Airplane. - Pastebin.com

00:48:04 ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/95d888a6d1f659a5cb81124e0d97966b9de1f139

00:48:05 assbot: Key import and export 95d888a bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub

00:48:14 ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/v0.6.0?page=11

00:48:15 assbot: Commits bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub

00:53:25 mod6: can someone take the time to create a document outlining how to submit a patch to said forthcoming mailing list?

00:53:47 asciilifeform: mod6: only jurov knows

00:56:09 mod6: and more-over, all the steps/requirements involved in creating such a patch.

00:56:24 mod6: we should have some sort of sop involved.

00:56:44 asciilifeform: the 'chicken' turd i posted, plus the last day or so of log

00:56:56 mod6: lot of ideas have flown by in here over the last 2+ days, solid ideas that should be documented.

00:57:05 asciilifeform: contains more or less the entire sop, other than the secret of how to operate jurov's turdatron.

00:57:45 mod6: what is ``jurov's turdatron''?

00:57:58 asciilifeform: !s jurov mailman

00:57:59 assbot: 6 results for 'jurov mailman' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=jurov+mailman

00:58:07 mod6: oh mailman. that's all you had to say :)

00:58:07 ben_vulpes: mailing list that accepts messages from assbot's l2

00:58:18 asciilifeform: not a generic mailman!

00:59:02 kakobrekla: if you need some place for notes, temporarily or not, you can use ba wiki.

00:59:31 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you drafted yourself as maintainer - perhaps do this

01:02:25 ben_vulpes: certainly.

01:03:24 danielpbarron: !up jonvaage

01:03:38 kakobrekla: if this is same dude....

01:06:36 danielpbarron: New rating | jonvaage > 5 > DanielKrawisz | Friend from Austin Bitcion Meetup and Mises Circle - Brilliant articles at http://nakamotoinstitute.org/

01:06:37 assbot: Satoshi Nakamoto Institute

01:32:24 asciilifeform: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-tok-o-capercaillie-or-the-herd-of-harts << mircea_popescu took delivery of some very potent smokables ?

01:32:25 assbot: The tok o’ capercaillie or the herd of harts ? pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

01:34:01 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://pastebin.com/qmZmz0Vc << try better one ?

01:34:01 assbot: The Idiot and the Airplane. - Pastebin.com

01:34:01 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:37:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00074694 = 6.0502 BTC [+] {2}

02:07:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9761 @ 0.00074776 = 7.2989 BTC [+]

02:14:22 mod6: /names

02:29:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00074989 = 9.0737 BTC [+]

02:49:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00074997 = 7.4997 BTC [+] {2}

02:57:56 decimation: ben_vulpes: did you manage to compile your package on osx? I find that there are weird linux dependencies in the irc code

03:06:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00075063 = 2.7023 BTC [+]

03:11:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my speciality is fast not good.

03:12:09 mircea_popescu: decimation: ben_vulpes: did you manage to compile your package on osx? I find that there are weird linux dependencies in the irc code << i thought the irc code was out.

03:13:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's in.

03:14:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja even bother to read that thing.

03:14:23 mircea_popescu: mmm

03:14:33 mircea_popescu: i prolly read summaries.

03:14:57 mircea_popescu: !up teek

03:15:38 decimation: I found that if you s/MSG_NOSIGNAL/SO_NOSIGPIPE/ the thing compiles (using macports g++-mp-4.7)

03:15:46 *: asciilifeform recommends snippety-snip for the osx crap

03:15:54 decimation: this is probably relevant to BSD

03:15:59 mircea_popescu: but apparently half the peons here are on os/x

03:16:05 asciilifeform: lol!

03:16:20 decimation: eh, it's the closest tool at hand

03:16:35 asciilifeform: http://noahdesu.github.io/2014/01/16/port-sendmsg.html

03:16:35 assbot: Porting MSG_MORE and MSG_NOSIGPIPE to OS X – Noah Watkins

03:16:40 decimation: I think a custom gentoo vm is the way to go

03:16:55 asciilifeform: if vm, why not openbsd.

03:16:57 mircea_popescu: a vm generally is possibly the way out.

03:17:09 asciilifeform: i suggested a qemu image earlier, if anyone recalls.

03:17:18 asciilifeform: hammered as flat as possible

03:17:46 asciilifeform: though it was for build, and not necessarily run

03:17:57 mircea_popescu: allow me to help productivity in my own way : http://38.media.tumblr.com/d115bc959beaec5322325a203d1e7218/tumblr_ndgishmEWi1tcc457o9_500.jpg

03:18:11 asciilifeform: is that a shoehorn?

03:19:04 mircea_popescu: thinks people ask about porn. "is that a shoehorn ?"

03:19:21 asciilifeform: shoehorns are a neglected but important piece of infrastructure!

03:19:38 asciilifeform: how many usaschwitz inmates even own a shoehorn.

03:21:00 mircea_popescu: here's a funny story : i have a maid here. as maids do, she has decided on a sorting of items in my place and is enforcing it unless one tells her better. which is the great unknown and unsung power of the default.

03:21:07 mircea_popescu: on the other hand, im not sure she knows what a shoehorn is,

03:21:22 mircea_popescu: because she's decided it goes IN my very nice marble mortar and pestle.

03:21:24 mircea_popescu: with the pestle.

03:22:26 mircea_popescu: the first time this happened chicks discovert it, i was like ew! and laughed at her. but then i forgot to say anything, so sure enough, next time...

03:23:29 kakobrekla: perhaps one of those silly 'life hacks'

03:23:44 mircea_popescu: oh ?

03:23:45 kakobrekla: "you have been drinking milk wrong all your life"

03:23:49 kakobrekla: as seen on youtube.

03:23:58 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, http://33.media.tumblr.com/f0d7ec5bda367de4c55560d4a3c6a51d/tumblr_nbyricWpNd1ty964ho1_400.gif

03:23:59 asciilifeform: 'really it's to be sipped with yer arsehole'

03:24:04 asciilifeform: that kind of 'hack'

03:24:08 kakobrekla: yea

03:24:15 kakobrekla: they do these.

03:24:43 undata: mircea_popescu: she thinks it's to scoop out what's been ground?

03:24:53 mircea_popescu: undata possibly.

03:25:13 kakobrekla: who is suppose to be enjoying this, him or her?

03:25:24 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla it's just the definition of "shoehorned"

03:25:25 kakobrekla: or maybe even him or him

03:25:36 undata: ouch

03:25:48 undata: well I guess I wouldn't know, but seems like ouch

03:25:55 mircea_popescu: undata the heel is metallic, but doesn't seem threaded...

03:26:34 undata: I mean, I've never stuck anything up there; could be great

03:26:41 undata: I'll probably pass...

03:26:55 mircea_popescu: undata too late for that, clearly you're into sounding

03:27:00 undata: ah fuck

03:27:01 mircea_popescu: working hard to prepare for mr thiel

03:27:17 mircea_popescu: why DID you think they're called "pencildicks" ?

03:28:13 decimation: arg. it compiles, but doesnt' link on osx without gymnastics

03:28:19 decimation: yeah maybe openbsd is a good idea

03:28:44 asciilifeform: once the toy os crap is junked, can 'have nice things'

03:29:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00075274 = 6.0972 BTC [+]

03:29:15 decimation: asciilifeform: is there a 'port' package for boost?

03:29:28 asciilifeform: no idea

03:29:35 asciilifeform: probably

03:30:07 asciilifeform: decimation: https://www.macports.org/ports.php?by=library&substr=boost

03:30:08 assbot: The MacPorts Project -- Available Ports

03:30:37 decimation: oh yeah I am using the macports version

03:30:43 decimation: I mean openbsd port

03:30:56 decimation: their packaging turd

03:31:33 decimation: I'm sure compiling that shit from scratch would be a nightmare

03:31:50 asciilifeform: exists, yes

03:32:58 asciilifeform: http://openports.se/devel/boost

03:32:58 assbot: OpenPorts.se | The OpenBSD package collection

03:33:07 decimation: awesome.

03:33:41 decimation: osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars

03:33:57 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/03SKVZX.txt )

03:33:57 asciilifeform: !b 1

03:34:04 undata: http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/darth-vader-goes-to-polls-in-ukraine-and-wants-to-turn-state-into-galactic-empire-30690003.html

03:34:05 assbot: 'Darth Vader' goes to polls in Ukraine and wants to turn state into 'galactic empire' - Independent.ie

03:35:36 decimation: this is a healthy development for their democracy, satan's world is on display

03:36:13 asciilifeform: in usa we had a version of this. vermin supreme.

03:36:19 asciilifeform: (yes, his official name!)

03:36:30 decimation: there's also predator and its 2 governors

03:36:34 asciilifeform: i vote for him without fail.

03:37:19 decimation: I wish that there were an option on the us ballot for "I vote against this entire system and an immediate constitutional convention"

03:37:34 decimation: kinda like the voter's version of nullification

03:46:56 mircea_popescu: <decimation> osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars << ahahhaha

03:46:57 ben_vulpes: vermin supreme!

03:47:40 asciilifeform: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2xQTUhbqcew/TvPYh-RptCI/AAAAAAAACww/foMLym8SDKU/s1600/Vermin+Supreme.jpg

03:47:47 decimation: I guess voting for vermin supreme would be the 'fuck you and the horse you rode in on' vote

03:48:08 mircea_popescu: they have these "suprema de x" breakfast dishes here

03:48:44 mircea_popescu: decimation "I vote against this entire system and an immediate constitutional convention" <<< that's not on the ballot. you can actually convene one. like, right now.

03:48:54 mircea_popescu: just get enough people to sign for it.

03:49:28 decimation: yeah that's kinda true, except you would have the entire bureaucrat/media/faceless mass against you

03:49:48 mircea_popescu: as opposed to when ?

03:49:50 decimation: might as well wear a boot on your head and shout at strangers

03:50:09 decimation: yeah, good point

03:50:56 decimation: mr. yarvin had a post where he hypothesized that if there were a credible alternative to usg it would immediately crumble

03:51:04 mircea_popescu: kinda his job, neh ?

03:51:10 ben_vulpes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWcef6rQ9dg

03:51:10 assbot: My name is Vermin Supreme w/ video - YouTube

03:51:59 mircea_popescu: ;;google chuckie egg

03:52:00 gribble: Chuckie Egg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuckie_Egg; Chuckie Egg - Flash BBCMicro Game Remake - Play Online: http://www.repton3.co.uk/; Play Chuckie Egg - Classic Arcade Games: http://www.classicgamesarcade.com/game/21686/chuckie-egg.html

03:52:01 ben_vulpes: <decimation> ben_vulpes: did you manage to compile your package on osx? << not even trying. i set up a virtualized debian toolchain.

03:52:09 decimation: heh

03:52:23 decimation: I have it almost compiling except boost is giving me shitty linking errors

03:52:49 decimation: I think asciilifeform is right, better to run on a real os

03:53:36 ben_vulpes: debian and gentoo seem to be the choices.

03:54:09 decimation: what, no bsd? :)

03:54:16 undata: ben_vulpes: I tried earlier on gentoo; it wanted a different openssl than ssh did, so I gave up.

03:54:35 decimation: yeah that's the rhel bitcoin guy's point

03:54:56 decimation: he has a complete version of openssl that will work with bitcoin, you can download the src.rpm and build for arbitrary unix

03:55:17 ben_vulpes: undata: i'm using debian.

03:55:25 ben_vulpes: !s bitcoin dark secret

03:55:26 assbot: 0 results for 'bitcoin dark secret' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitcoin+dark+secret

03:55:32 ben_vulpes: o.O

03:56:39 mircea_popescu: !s darkest secret

03:56:40 assbot: 2 results for 'darkest secret' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=darkest+secret

03:57:04 ben_vulpes: bad search as a service

03:57:12 ben_vulpes: no venture investment

04:06:13 ben_vulpes: cazalla: did you hear back from Conformal about the machines they used to come to their 32MB steady-state conclusion?

04:06:36 cazalla: ben_vulpes, forgot about that, i'll do it now

04:06:42 mircea_popescu: for that matter, who from conformal was here ? i forget

04:08:10 decimation: every once in awhile I jones for dayZ, anyone here every play it?

04:08:58 ben_vulpes: this "pruned blockchain" notion sounds dangerous.

04:09:18 ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4701/

04:09:20 assbot: Autoprune by rdponticelli Pull Request #4701 bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub

04:09:20 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's a lousy fix for a serious problem that "doesn't exist" because logics

04:09:32 ben_vulpes: what is the actual serious problem?

04:09:46 decimation: I like how on one had the sky is falling so we need bigger blocks, but on the other hand the sky is falling so we need a smaller blockchain

04:09:48 mircea_popescu: but hey, i know, since we solved the blocksize through autopruning, we can make blocks one trilobyte long!

04:09:57 decimation: heh

04:10:06 mircea_popescu: decimation notice the typically usg sort of arguing involved.

04:10:36 mircea_popescu: i mean it's ridoinculous, a five year old can smell the shit, yet supposedly pointing it out is somehow controversial and wildly speculative

04:11:27 ben_vulpes: prhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4481/files#diff-c865a8939105e6350a50af02766291b7R605

04:11:34 ben_vulpes: can't run with a wallet in pruned mode?

04:11:34 mircea_popescu: anyway, asciilifeform's orignal "microscope, monkeys" is exceptionally apt, when it comes to "bitcoin scientists"

04:12:02 mircea_popescu: and to think the guy went to princeton!

04:12:09 decimation: who, gavin?

04:12:13 ben_vulpes: prhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4481/files#diff-c865a8939105e6350a50af02766291b7R980 << ah satoshi save me

04:12:16 mircea_popescu: yeah.

04:12:32 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what do you think this prhttps interface is

04:12:38 decimation: well, satoshi's original judgement was that these guys were pigfuckers, see ya later

04:13:23 mircea_popescu: decimation you can imagine his cold cold sweat once he finally figured out who exactly the "enthusiastic early adopters" were.

04:13:25 ben_vulpes: prhttps?

04:13:37 mircea_popescu: quite a soviet moment.

04:14:12 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes look in logs, your last few lines ?

04:14:39 ben_vulpes: pardon sir, a typo

04:14:49 ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4481/files#diff-c865a8939105e6350a50af02766291b7R980

04:14:50 assbot: Add a switch to allow running in a pruned state by rdponticelli Pull Request #4481 bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub

04:14:55 decimation: it's enraging that firefox doesn't honor emacs movements

04:15:02 decimation: keyboard shortcuts

04:15:05 ben_vulpes: decimation: konqueror

04:15:13 ben_vulpes: i've yet to set it up myself

04:15:19 ben_vulpes: but it's on the roadmap for 2015

04:15:43 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes two typos, and since it was consistent it made me curious :D

04:15:54 decimation: yeah I always liked konqueror becuase it would just open a file as an arg

04:16:03 ben_vulpes: i finally got helm dialed in (and oh my god, i didn't know that emacs could get that much better

04:16:22 decimation: what's helm do?

04:16:24 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: terminal kill ring, incomplete backwards-kill, os paste holder

04:16:34 ben_vulpes: decimation: are you familiar with ido?

04:16:56 ben_vulpes: fuzzy completion in all of the places in which one'd want it?

04:17:21 ben_vulpes: (mircea_popescu: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4481/files#diff-c865a8939105e6350a50af02766291b7R605 << the first one, de-typo'd)

04:17:23 assbot: Add a switch to allow running in a pruned state by rdponticelli Pull Request #4481 bitcoin/bitcoin GitHub

04:17:29 decimation: yeah I use ido now but it's only marginally better than stock

04:17:41 decimation: yeah that sounds great

04:17:48 decimation: ido kinda sucks honestly, it's matching is dumb

04:18:01 decimation: it's/its

04:18:31 decimation: huh, thanks for the tip, will look into it

04:18:45 ben_vulpes: hang on a sec

04:18:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8106 @ 0.00077314 = 6.2671 BTC [+]

04:19:51 ben_vulpes: decimation: http://tuhdo.github.io/helm-intro.html

04:19:51 assbot: A Package in a league of its own: <code>Helm</code>

04:19:59 ben_vulpes: decimation: http://tuhdo.github.io/helm-projectile.html

04:20:00 assbot: Exploring large projects with Projectile and Helm Projectile

04:20:34 ben_vulpes: integration with grep, ag, and the kill-ring visualization are pretty fantastic.

04:21:29 decimation: ah, yeah I want kill-ring visualization

04:21:31 decimation: thanks

04:21:44 decimation: do you use org-mode?

04:23:23 ben_vulpes: fairly frequently, yes.

04:23:51 ben_vulpes: !

04:24:53 ben_vulpes: side note about the 32mb number: andresen claims that as the largest message that can be sent in a single bitcoin p2p message.

04:25:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2697 @ 0.00077314 = 2.0852 BTC [+]

04:26:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's kind of the intention, but it does not really work

04:27:49 mircea_popescu: (ie, it's unevenly enforced)

04:28:35 ben_vulpes: as in p2p messages exceed 32mb in practice?

04:28:42 ben_vulpes: decimation: why do you ask?

04:29:31 mircea_popescu: as in sometimes they do, more or less impredictably so.

04:31:24 decimation: ben_vulpes: just cause. I find it quite useful, the best personal organizer I have tried

04:32:01 ben_vulpes: decimation: i used it for time tracking before we started using harvest

04:32:13 ben_vulpes: which has got to be the most orwellianly named product out there

04:34:53 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell princesnell https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/blocksize-economics/ << what, you're collaborating with the empire nao?

04:34:54 assbot: Blocksize Economics | The Bitcoin Foundation

04:34:54 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:35:36 ben_vulpes: (just trolling - all the paupers have to)

04:36:04 mircea_popescu: lol princess nellia in full metal gear ?

04:36:29 mircea_popescu: ahahahh wait, she's one of the five economists ?

04:36:40 mircea_popescu: somebody's got some splainin' to do.

04:36:43 mircea_popescu: ;;rated princessnell

04:36:44 gribble: You rated user princessnell on Thu Jun 12 00:45:23 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: She's smart..

04:36:49 mircea_popescu: ;;unrate princessnell

04:36:51 gribble: Successfully removed your rating for princessnell.

04:38:02 decimation: well to be fair she was just a reviewer

04:38:23 decimation: she might have said 'this sucks'

04:38:31 mircea_popescu: one that somehow forgot to come by and say "hey check out the derpage"

04:38:43 decimation: good point

04:38:52 mircea_popescu: and if she did say this sucks, i have no way to know. which isn't consistent with the "smart" rating, sadly.

04:39:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2489 @ 0.00077305 = 1.9241 BTC [-]

04:40:23 mircea_popescu: but as a general moral of the thing, one's best be careful to post on their blog trashing idiots like us* or else they risk appearing in victorious tweets like "oh noes, 5 economists reviewed this!!!", which is exactly how the empire works.

04:43:49 ben_vulpes: how would i get the size of an arbitrary block?

04:45:17 mircea_popescu: getBlockSize() ?

04:45:59 ben_vulpes: ty mircea_popescu

04:50:32 decimation: I don't even get how gavin's post is an economic argument

04:50:36 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: do messages of less than 32 MB transmit regularly? are you aware of a discernable phase boundary for transmission reliability?

04:50:46 decimation: other than "the network would be more valuable if it did more transactions per second"

04:50:51 mircea_popescu: no, which is why i've been sayin'...

04:51:06 mircea_popescu: decimation it IS an economic argument. it goes like so

04:51:09 mircea_popescu: "we do not want to die."

04:51:12 decimation: heh

04:51:25 mircea_popescu: it's just not either brought honestly nor signed by its authors.

04:51:54 decimation: the assertions he makes neglect a large pile of real-world costs

04:52:31 mircea_popescu: they are like the usual assetions of the <del>socialist</del> five year old : they neglect everything except for what he wants.

04:52:36 mircea_popescu: and therefore MUST HAVE!!!1

04:52:43 decimation: that's exactly how it reads

04:53:02 mircea_popescu: people tend to forget just how self-defeating idiocy is.

04:53:08 mircea_popescu: all it needs is state itself.

04:57:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00076904 = 3.23 BTC [-]

04:59:51 asciilifeform: pruning << the shitgnomes don't dare a hardfork. so they'll happily try a 'lossy softfork' - see how much functionality can be degraded (in this case, how much of the blockchain can be alzheimered) without hardforking.

05:00:52 mircea_popescu: sooo... mah router just got attacked ;/

05:01:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah, "anything that isn't bolted down" or how did it go.

05:05:04 asciilifeform: anything that isn't bolted down, will be shaken loose. very soon.

05:05:22 asciilifeform: and little gnomes, covered in shit, will silently scurry away with it.

05:06:20 mircea_popescu: it's not really shit

05:06:26 mircea_popescu: you just don't understand how the world works.

05:06:29 asciilifeform: i can't help but wonder what our little friends the gnomes chat about amongst themselves.

05:06:38 asciilifeform: when we aren't looking and the lights are out.

05:06:39 mircea_popescu: the world.

05:06:43 mircea_popescu: and how you don't understand it.

05:06:46 asciilifeform: what do they talk about under their buggery blankets

05:06:55 asciilifeform: nah that's on the stage

05:06:59 decimation: it's interesting that they would go so far as to pay someone to attack sites

05:07:15 mircea_popescu: decimation i very much doubt there's any relation there.

05:07:41 mircea_popescu: one can well piss off different groups of idiots you know.

05:07:50 decimation: true

05:08:14 mircea_popescu: now, sure all the idiots in the end are fed out of the same through

05:08:27 mircea_popescu: so one could argue they're the same group in the end. but anyway.

05:08:36 asciilifeform: there are two troughs.

05:08:45 mircea_popescu: maybe they should paint foodstamps in different colors

05:08:51 asciilifeform: out of one, the useful idiots are fed. the ones who actually swallow it all.

05:09:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in this case, i actually meant money.

05:09:07 asciilifeform: out of the other - the 'full spectrum dominance' folks who know exactly what they're doing.

05:09:21 asciilifeform: the ones who've not only smelled but stoked the ovens.

05:09:37 decimation: I don't think they are involved here

05:09:44 decimation: why would they show up in irc?

05:09:48 mircea_popescu: i very much doubt they exist at all.

05:10:12 asciilifeform: decimation: why would such dignified folks show up in person. represented by idiots of the first kind, in nearly all cases.

05:10:19 mircea_popescu: but this is evolving towards a rehash of the meta-nsa discussion we've really done to death

05:10:20 asciilifeform: there's an inexhaustible supply of them, after all

05:10:23 asciilifeform: aha

05:11:23 mircea_popescu: the islant of smart bureaucrats is like ten miles off the island of the amazons

05:11:32 mircea_popescu: those mythical women that are perpetually hawt and perpetually alone.

05:11:38 *: asciilifeform does not believe in free-range sheeple. or rather, is quite certain that they've been extinct since some time prior to, say, babylon. and the only kind of sheeple to be found today are in meat processing plants - which can only exist if there are eaters.

05:11:46 decimation: with monkeys bombarding them with poo

05:11:49 mircea_popescu: eaters, yes.

05:12:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform considere the case of the farming ants. are the ants intelligent ? no. are the teats of the bugs milked in time ? yes.

05:12:20 mircea_popescu: nature is economical.

05:12:25 mircea_popescu: especially with intelligence.

05:13:19 asciilifeform: even if a figure like jamie dimon is more analogous to an insect queen than to a 'secret hitler' -

05:13:25 asciilifeform: still, we have an eater.

05:13:27 asciilifeform: or rather, a set.

05:13:39 decimation: asciilifeform: the concluding question being: in front of which chumpatron's maw do you wish to graze?

05:14:32 asciilifeform: hm?

05:15:48 decimation: how do you escape the factory and roam free?

05:16:11 asciilifeform: ask limonov

05:16:25 decimation: or maybe that templeos guy

05:16:48 asciilifeform: (who, it appears, believes that organized stampede is the answer. well, doesn't really believe it answers the puzzle, but thinks it wrong not to at least try)

05:17:19 mircea_popescu: organised stampede ? lol.

05:17:29 mircea_popescu: if you can do that, why stop there ? make round cubes,

05:17:31 asciilifeform: templeos << terry davis is a 'stainless steel rat.' just, a more skilled one than i am

05:17:37 mircea_popescu: heck, made perpetuum mobile and everything else.

05:17:40 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fried ice!

05:17:43 asciilifeform: (arabic?)

05:17:44 mircea_popescu: definitely.

05:18:01 mircea_popescu: low calorie milk, greaseless oil, all the good stuff.

05:18:07 asciilifeform: dried water.

05:18:08 mircea_popescu: organised stampede indeed.

05:18:24 decimation: asciilifeform: mancur olson lived somewhere nearby. he pretty much came to the same conclusion

05:18:40 mircea_popescu: but incidentally : i have for the past hour been writing on this piece

05:18:50 mircea_popescu: which i think will be pretty shattery. roughly same topic.

05:19:22 asciilifeform: decimation: j. c. scott's 'art of not being governed' (related)

05:20:59 decimation: I like how any book worth reading is now warez

05:21:16 decimation: I feel the compulsion to collect them in case 1984

05:21:18 asciilifeform: well, any book in ru

05:21:29 decimation: heh

05:21:34 asciilifeform: i've ~80GB here.

05:21:38 asciilifeform: and that's... plain ascii.

05:21:40 asciilifeform: compressed.

05:21:41 asciilifeform: (!)

05:21:46 decimation: asciilifeform: what is the ru copyright law? do they thumb their nose at the bern convention

05:21:49 decimation: that's alot of books

05:21:50 undata: libgen.org?

05:21:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00076904 = 3.4607 BTC [-]

05:22:14 undata: seems to have everything

05:22:30 asciilifeform: decimation: complicated.

05:23:06 asciilifeform: decimation: on paper, 1990s oligarchs sold even the pre-copyright-era (ussr to 1974) works to various pissants

05:23:17 asciilifeform: but in practice, there is iron resistance

05:23:27 mircea_popescu: <decimation> I feel the compulsion to collect them in case 1984 << you are doing a good thing.

05:23:43 decimation: as in, no one recognizes the 'property rights' of the pissants?

05:23:53 asciilifeform: ru folks (the thinking kind) collect warez as a matter of principle.

05:24:13 asciilifeform: and of pragmatic. never know when might need to make a trade.

05:24:32 undata: why did p2p seem to stall at bittorrent?

05:24:40 asciilifeform: ?

05:24:51 undata: I guess tribler's working on a tor fork

05:24:54 decimation: what's wrong with bittorent?

05:25:09 undata: decimation: what would be wrong with some anonymity in the mix?

05:25:32 decimation: well, it wasn't an design goal

05:25:35 asciilifeform: 'property rights' of the pissants << gotta understand the inevitable reaction when people move a property boundary. and especially when they move it, as if they owned the universe, straight through your brain, wishing to cut off half

05:25:51 undata: decimation: that's what's wrong with bittorrent.

05:26:27 mircea_popescu: undata listen, you're misdesigning here. the "privacy" angle is not to be solved at the tool level.

05:26:37 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah sounds legit

05:26:38 mircea_popescu: what the fuck would awk be if someone tried to rewrite it to include privacy ?

05:26:42 mircea_popescu: you want privacy, get a vm.

05:26:58 mircea_popescu: you want private use of a hammer, wear gloves.

05:27:05 mircea_popescu: don't try to buy a special, "private" hammer.

05:27:20 decimation: I'm not really sure how one could 'design privacy' while simultaneously expecting to correspond with whoever comes down the street

05:27:23 *: undata googles bitcoin seedbox

05:27:41 undata: mircea_popescu: still I can run tor *here*

05:27:51 mircea_popescu: sure, you can do whatever you please.

05:28:42 decimation: asciilifeform: but the situation is even worse in the us, why do the 'thinking folk' seem to accept it as some kind of bedrock of civilization?

05:28:59 asciilifeform: decimation: anyone ask them? (do you remember being asked? i don't)

05:29:11 decimation: heh good point

05:29:48 undata: mircea_popescu: an anonymous p2p network would permanently solve the copyright thing; those guys can always go after the seedbox hosts

05:29:53 decimation: it's a weird quirk of their particular abbatoir

05:30:07 undata: I've used i2p for various things

05:30:13 undata: good but utterly slow

05:30:26 asciilifeform: decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-2014#774690

05:30:26 assbot: Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: 'Learn not to participate - to the point of utter impossibility of meeting the enemy 'half-way' - and you will see that inside there lay a very useful mindfuck: in learning to 'nonparticipate,' in fact you drew out your *will* from its scabbard - to which it seemed so securely riveted by your upbringing. The appearance of *your will* changes everything and forever. With your own will slipped into your

05:30:30 mircea_popescu: undata it wouldn't do anything. you're basically saying, "carbon credits will permanently solve the eco whining". no, it provably won't.

05:31:43 undata: no, I'm not.

05:32:29 undata: right now there is a nonzero risk (in the US) that you get outed by your ISP and end up paying loads

05:32:50 undata: why would dropping that risk to negligible be doing nothing?

05:32:58 mircea_popescu: ...

05:33:24 mircea_popescu: somewhere your thinking's broken but i don't readily spot where. wtf are you on about, "dropping that risk to nigligible" ?

05:33:33 mircea_popescu: you ARE running forbidden app x, right ?

05:33:47 mircea_popescu: how did it become the case in us of fuckyou that you can be fined for using the internet ?

05:33:56 undata: the laws aren't against the app

05:34:02 undata: they're against pulling down copyrighted material

05:34:03 mircea_popescu: cause the same fucking process can work again

05:34:05 mircea_popescu: uh.

05:34:15 asciilifeform: the copyrasty problem will find its 'final solution' in a rather elegant, if traumatic, way. the various american 'industries' that form the brain & body of copyrasty (film, music, dead tree publishing) will be done in by the banal fact of their customers having nothing to spend.

05:34:46 asciilifeform: this is also known as 'every tumour stops growing eventually.'

05:35:07 undata: I fail to see the problem with helping that death along.

05:35:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's not my perspective, though we don't disagree. in my view of the matter, they will be done in by the fact that the intersection of thinking people and copyright observers will become the null set.

05:35:27 asciilifeform: it's already a mostly null set

05:35:29 mircea_popescu: undata well there's no problem with helping it along, but your proposed measures have the opposite effect ?

05:35:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that being the only reason it still survives as a going concern.

05:35:47 undata: mircea_popescu: by causing a "no p2p app x" law?

05:35:50 undata: it'd never happen

05:36:01 mircea_popescu: undata no. by acting as if the usg actually has some sort of power or importance.

05:36:03 undata: any more than they can ban tor

05:36:04 mircea_popescu: see the scabbard quote above.

05:36:16 mircea_popescu: you have any idea how many of these "it'll never happen"s i heard ?

05:36:28 undata: the us govt *made* tor

05:36:31 mircea_popescu: here's a good one : it'll never happen that they'll send people to prison for fixing software.

05:37:13 decimation: mircea_popescu: I'm sure there are bureaucrats that would love to do exactly that

05:37:22 undata: this assumes they can do anything

05:37:23 mircea_popescu: decimation no, it's happened already.

05:37:30 mircea_popescu: see the famous case of that neonazi kid whatever his name is

05:37:31 undata: they haven't gotten anything done in 20 years

05:37:52 mircea_popescu: undata they've not gotten anything intelligent done in 20 years. plenty of idiocy got done tho.

05:38:28 undata: I think it would be fantastic to have an appified (derped) way of downloading game of thrones

05:38:39 mircea_popescu: well so make it, i guess.

05:38:53 undata: if only to kill the revenue of game of thrones-ing

05:38:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally : you know what "solid earner" died the exact death you describe ? buffett's "discount stamps"

05:39:05 mircea_popescu: exactly that way : its customers ended up on food stamps :D

05:39:15 asciilifeform: thar we go.

05:40:29 asciilifeform: in the near term - usa is stage for 'demolition derby' of everything and anything - good, bad - which depends on the typical man on the street having spending money.

05:40:36 mircea_popescu: undata anyway, you're equivocating two things here. on one hand, you'll find exactly zero support here for the proposition that someone should make money off the writings of dead authors ; on the other hand, you'll find exactly zero support here for the theory that you should be able to play any computer game you wish without having to pay the company that made it anything.

05:40:48 mircea_popescu: this equivocation would be the other, smaller reason copyrights still survive.

05:41:12 undata: mircea_popescu: nothing stops anyone from mirroring your blog for free

05:41:14 undata: yet you're getting paid

05:41:20 mircea_popescu: actually, yes, it does.

05:41:24 mircea_popescu: cause he can't get the articles.

05:41:38 undata: he could pay once, then host it himself

05:41:43 mircea_popescu: and get sued.

05:42:06 undata: my point is there's always a way, and that fact doesn't necessarily stop good content

05:42:17 mircea_popescu: but your point doesn't work, seeing how... there isn't a way.

05:42:25 undata: there are shit-fountains in the us I'd love to help wreck.

05:42:32 asciilifeform: how many mircea_popescu ends up suing every week ?

05:42:32 mircea_popescu: you just need better methods.

05:42:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that didn't parse.

05:42:53 asciilifeform: ah

05:43:07 asciilifeform: how often somebody opens unauthorized mirror

05:43:08 undata: well, something which does more damage to the fountain the more people want the shit seems fun

05:43:11 undata: maybe it's not the above, but something

05:43:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's never happened, cuz why would somebody.

05:43:32 asciilifeform: why would some nitwit ddos the #b-a log.

05:43:44 asciilifeform: because satan moves him? idk

05:43:45 mircea_popescu: undata http://fraudsters.com/copyright-notice/ << you ever seen that btw ?

05:43:46 assbot: Copyright Notice pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

05:44:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah well, and then legal rape.

05:44:11 mircea_popescu: !s trademark

05:44:11 assbot: 78 results for 'trademark' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=trademark

05:44:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-10-2014#857323 <

05:44:27 assbot: Logged on 03-10-2014 15:52:13; mircea_popescu: make thing infringing on mp's trademark. have mp notice you in google. mp files complaint with fb, yest. page suspended, today.

05:45:16 asciilifeform: lol - what was the trademark?

05:45:19 mircea_popescu: fraudsters

05:45:24 asciilifeform: ha

05:45:27 mircea_popescu: doh.

05:45:54 undata: I am certain that page is not why people are paying you for your content.

05:45:59 undata: that said, I have no plans to mirror fraudsters

05:46:01 mircea_popescu: for sure not.

05:46:11 mircea_popescu: and i mostly don't give a shit, either.

05:46:19 mircea_popescu: but your arguments don't work like you want them to nevertheless.

05:46:35 decimation: If there's a bridge that you voted against and the gov't built anyway, would you use it?

05:46:55 *: mircea_popescu is interested by this suddenly unexpected turn.

05:47:41 asciilifeform: decimation: i use it. (literally.)

05:47:43 mircea_popescu: decimation what if i say "no" ?

05:48:01 kakobrekla: this is a rehash of dignity of downed pilots

05:48:03 asciilifeform: 'spread yer legs & think of england'

05:48:13 decimation: it's not really a logic puzzle

05:48:22 undata: decimation: I do not vote.

05:48:24 mircea_popescu: decimation well you had something in mind with it ?

05:48:25 undata: except with money

05:48:48 asciilifeform: downed pilots with dignity - have poor life expectancy.

05:48:49 decimation: I would use the bridge, for simple pragmatic reasons

05:48:59 kakobrekla: hehe

05:49:04 mircea_popescu: but how does it relate ?

05:49:07 mircea_popescu: !up Mikayla

05:49:16 decimation: copyright enforcement is the unwanted bridge

05:49:29 mircea_popescu: and suppose i have a toilet in my house that instead of the usual seat has a penis shaped stick to sit on ?

05:49:52 decimation: that would make it difficult to take a shit

05:49:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu stole all my inventions straight from me head!!

05:49:56 mircea_popescu: i suppose that's the ultimate girl toilet, what is all this "lift the seat, lower the seat" bs.

05:50:03 mircea_popescu: just impale yourself and that's that.

05:50:05 undata: in my case, I will never file a software patent.

05:50:13 undata: that bridge can fuck itself

05:50:13 asciilifeform: i've been advocating the stakeoilet for years!

05:50:22 mircea_popescu: lmao

05:50:26 mircea_popescu: where ?

05:50:30 asciilifeform: to pet

05:50:32 mircea_popescu: ;;google loper-os.org stakeoilet

05:50:33 gribble: No matches found.

05:50:35 asciilifeform: in-joke. till now

05:50:42 mircea_popescu: bwahahh I GOT THE COPYRIGHT BITCH

05:50:58 asciilifeform: till mr. lift'em-straightouta'me'head got to it, ha.

05:51:08 decimation: he's going to use the power of the state to compel you

05:51:16 mircea_popescu: !s compiles you

05:51:17 assbot: 55 results for 'compiles you' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=compiles+you

05:51:30 asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2008/09/survival-of-nicest.html << obligatory re: downed pilots & their dignity.

05:51:30 assbot: ClubOrlov: Survival of the Nicest?

05:51:31 undata: owning information is not the only option here

05:51:37 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-10-2014#862164 << that.

05:51:37 assbot: Logged on 07-10-2014 06:20:35; mircea_popescu: the power of jesus compiles you!

05:51:38 asciilifeform: specifically the quite.

05:51:40 asciilifeform: *quote

05:51:47 undata: and needing to ignores that many will just pay people they want to support

05:51:56 mircea_popescu: !up Mikayla

05:52:09 undata: <well worn argument that bands will still make money if there are mp3s>

05:52:45 kakobrekla: penis shaped stick toilet - and i thought i was fucked.

05:52:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, does pet ever go to spa ?

05:52:54 asciilifeform: nein

05:52:57 mircea_popescu: actually, better q, do they even have spas where you live.

05:53:08 asciilifeform: if it's the place with the peculiar chair fixtures, yes

05:53:29 decimation: I've been told that many 'massage parlors' in maryland are in fact brothels

05:53:43 undata: better stated, the only owned information is a secret

05:53:44 asciilifeform: i was informed the function is called 'happy-ending' here

05:53:50 asciilifeform: and one can ask for it by code name

05:53:53 mircea_popescu: decimation "you've been told" ?

05:54:07 *: decimation haven't availed myself of their services

05:54:11 mircea_popescu: why not ?

05:54:19 decimation: the power of jesus compels me.

05:54:26 mircea_popescu: listen, if smart people don't fuck whores, the poor girls are left with a very poor impression of maledom

05:54:35 mircea_popescu: it's the duty of any gentleman to fuck a whore at least yearly.

05:54:50 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/363E6XZ.txt )

05:54:50 asciilifeform: !b 2

05:55:20 *: kakobrekla not a gentleman.

05:55:28 mircea_popescu: well, gives you something to aspire to.

05:55:43 mircea_popescu: (gentleman scholar might also use fingers)

05:55:46 *: asciilifeform waits to get shot down over island of whores

05:56:03 mircea_popescu: you'd make them a cardano ?

05:56:09 asciilifeform: would try.

05:56:14 asciilifeform: out of local materials.

05:56:16 decimation: once in my youth I intercepted a business deal between a hooker and a john using a scanner in the portable-phone frequency range

05:56:22 mircea_popescu: "and this, my dear girls, is how you make a cnc mill out of menstrual blood"

05:56:23 asciilifeform: can't be too much harder than - here.

05:56:51 *: asciilifeform can't help but remember beloved childhood book, 'mysterious island'

05:57:00 mircea_popescu: decimation seriously, it's unsanitary, this. take the world back, man!

05:57:15 mircea_popescu: allllll of it.

05:57:40 decimation: I suspected that she resided in the neighboring trailer park

05:58:00 mircea_popescu: im sure there must be some nice ones too, somewhere.

05:58:09 undata: not in maryland

05:58:13 mircea_popescu: no wai.

05:58:43 decimation: I'm sure there are high-class hookers somewhere in wash dc, but I suspect they also charge $$$

05:58:59 mircea_popescu: so what, you'd rather pay mortgage ?

05:59:10 mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone know the etymology of that term ?

05:59:12 decimation: yeah, you see, that's 'moral'

05:59:18 decimation: 'on the pain of death'

05:59:19 mircea_popescu: cause it quite literally says, "tribute to death"

05:59:28 asciilifeform: in usa, whore market, as i understand, has very tight coupling between product grade and price.

05:59:59 decimation: when one signs up for a 30 year mortgage it's pretty easy to imagine death coming first

06:00:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, usa is one of the few places where the girls do pro bono work.

06:00:49 mircea_popescu: bezzle influence. they will charge a derpy usg bureaucrat 2k for an hour, and then take three dudes at some party

06:00:55 mircea_popescu: where they all got drunk on her money.

06:00:56 *: asciilifeform hasn't much to add, because to him whores may as well be those wonderful creatures that leave in the 'sea chimneys' at the bottom of the ocean.

06:01:23 undata: asciilifeform: man don't put that on your dick...

06:01:28 mircea_popescu: whores in poorer countries are much more careful to charge all entrants.

06:03:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7450 @ 0.00075336 = 5.6125 BTC [-] {2}

06:05:12 decimation: re:mortgages << walking around london I was surprised to learn that this is less common, much of london is owned by the crown directly

06:05:28 decimation: so instead property is leased 1000 year terms

06:05:44 asciilifeform: not entirely unlike u.s. 'fee simple.'

06:06:05 decimation: right, I think it would be more honest for us 'fee simple' to convert to 'crown leases'

06:06:13 asciilifeform: go try not paying the crown lease, err, property tax, in usa

06:06:18 decimation: at least then you would be signing a contract rather than just paying thieves

06:06:21 mircea_popescu: entirely nominalistic argument anyway

06:06:26 asciilifeform: aha.

06:06:45 mircea_popescu: decimation unless you both have equal armies, neither of you is signing any contracts.

06:06:57 decimation: ghengis kahn wouldn't bother with a contract either

06:06:59 asciilifeform: call it gang rape, or 'rejuvenative cock therapy', same concept

06:08:02 mircea_popescu: in romanian, gang means, "underpass". and for a while i thought that's what it meant, rape occuring in such a place

06:08:26 decimation: lol

06:09:26 mircea_popescu: only after a while it occurred to me that wait a second, not like these people could know that ?! wtf ?!

06:09:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider, e.g., Notzucht.

06:09:38 mircea_popescu: then i discovered that no, the overpass is not material.

06:09:55 asciilifeform: very interesting etymology, the germans.

06:10:04 decimation: that's pretty much the same as german

06:10:16 mircea_popescu: "Sexualisierte Gewalt"

06:10:22 mircea_popescu: notice the -ierte. sexualised.

06:10:31 asciilifeform: who hasn't seen a sign, marked, 'notausgang' - emergency exit

06:10:31 decimation: heh

06:10:52 decimation: romanian must have borrowed it, or vice versa

06:11:20 mircea_popescu: decimation pretty sure romanian stole it.

06:11:33 asciilifeform: 'emergency breeding'

06:11:52 mircea_popescu: speaking of romanians raping words (which is what they do) : patent in romanian means a type of pliers.

06:12:13 decimation: gang (n.) from Old English gang "a going, journey, way, passage," and Old Norse gangr "a group of men, a set," both from Proto-Germanic *gangaz (cognates: Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Danish, Dutch, Old High German, German gang, Old Norse gangr, Gothic gagg "act of going"), from PIE root *ghengh- "to step" (cognates: Sanskrit jangha "shank," Avestan zanga- "ankle," Lithuanian zengiu "I stride"). Thus not considered to be related to go.

06:13:18 asciilifeform: gang aft a'gley.

06:13:24 decimation: linguistics is really interesting stuff

06:13:36 decimation: it boggles my mind that german is related to sanskrit

06:13:45 mircea_popescu: why ?!

06:13:58 decimation: I guess it's my built-in 'present bias'

06:14:04 asciilifeform: and man, to mold, doesn't boggle ?

06:14:08 decimation: but everything comes from something

06:14:12 mircea_popescu: all happened before the 1900 middle ages ? :)

06:14:19 decimation: hehe yeah

06:15:31 mircea_popescu: !s luxury

06:15:32 assbot: 83 results for 'luxury' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=luxury

06:16:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9608 @ 0.00074718 = 7.1789 BTC [-] {2}

06:18:01 decimation: lol luxury meant 'sexual intercourse' in the 1300's

06:21:32 mircea_popescu: it still does, apparently.

06:26:10 ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/25_notes-on-increasing-the-maximum-bitcoin-block-size-or-why-it-aint-happenin.html

06:26:11 assbot: Notes on Increasing the Maximum Bitcoin Block Size (or, "Why it ain't happenin'")

06:26:56 ben_vulpes: interested to know where i went off the rails with that one

06:35:29 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes will read.

06:35:47 ben_vulpes: Беркем аль Атоми << i don't even know how to find out more about this short of...learning to read russian.

06:36:26 decimation: yeah me too

06:36:38 ben_vulpes: daw you boys are too sweet

06:38:31 ben_vulpes: <undata> I think it would be fantastic to have an appified (derped) way of downloading game of thrones << web browser torrent plugins exist

06:39:05 ben_vulpes: expend the set of people doing the thing and the copyfascists won't be able to keep up

06:48:04 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> who hasn't seen a sign, marked, 'notausgang' - emergency exit << read as "not a us gang"

06:48:27 ben_vulpes: blinked, remembered childhood german lessons

06:50:13 ben_vulpes: ah ha

06:50:24 ben_vulpes: today i discovered that calibre ships with heuristic processing disabled

06:50:33 ben_vulpes: thought it was just shitty

06:56:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00074796 = 8.1154 BTC [+] {2}

07:07:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8402 @ 0.00075477 = 6.3416 BTC [+]

07:12:35 ben_vulpes: "inside voice" is one of the more useful things to teach a dog: http://videos-f-16.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xfa1/10745249_1722322861325716_1685564917_n.mp4

07:20:53 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/old-texts-on-traditional-marriage-vampirism-and-gayety/

07:20:53 assbot: Old texts on traditional marriage ; vampirism and gayety. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

07:20:56 mircea_popescu: i am quite proud of this one.

07:25:23 ben_vulpes: oh god a giant fraudsters linking to other giant fraudsterss

07:26:09 mircea_popescu: yeah, it's intended as a two week mindfuck.

07:27:57 ben_vulpes: your parents worked less than you and enjoyed their life more << i was just having this conversation with my father

07:28:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the one thing that jumps at me is that you only got half the 32mb issue.

07:28:37 ben_vulpes: "when i was your age, i got to work at 8, got off at 5, drank a beer, got on the train, went home and was at home. you poor fool answer emails lo unto 10pm"

07:28:52 ben_vulpes: do enlighten me

07:28:58 mircea_popescu: the fact is that it sometimes DOES create 100mn+ responses.

07:29:11 ben_vulpes: wait hm?

07:29:14 mircea_popescu: eys.

07:29:23 mircea_popescu: and nobody even fucking knows exactly when and wherefore all the damned time.

07:30:10 ben_vulpes: 100mn?

07:30:14 mircea_popescu: the actual formalisation is, "the largest schlong I can take is ten inches, except 8 and 9 inches hurt and i sometimes take two feet"

07:30:17 mircea_popescu: mb

07:30:20 ben_vulpes: ah

07:31:06 ben_vulpes: well this'd be the difference between a spec and an implementation, non?

07:31:14 mircea_popescu: charitably.

07:31:23 mircea_popescu: it could also be the difference between coding and idiocy

07:33:50 ben_vulpes: so sometimes the cock is 32mb long, but does the reference implementation accept those messages?

07:33:53 ben_vulpes: ah sometimes probably

07:36:13 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: shippments

07:36:43 mircea_popescu: lol a captain on his shipp

07:49:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6186 @ 0.0007622 = 4.715 BTC [+]

07:50:06 mircea_popescu: !s sha256

07:50:07 assbot: 77 results for 'sha256' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sha256

07:54:09 mircea_popescu: !up Mikayla

07:54:18 mircea_popescu: ;;google first steps bitcoin-assets

07:54:19 gribble: start [bitcoin assets wiki]: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/; #bitcoin-assets log: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/; Why the IRS Is Taxing Bitcoins as an Asset - The Motley Fool: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/03/26/why-the-irs-is-taxing-bitcoins-as-an-asset.aspx

07:54:26 mircea_popescu: there, first link.

07:55:55 mircea_popescu: ;;ident Mikayla

07:55:55 gribble: Nick 'Mikayla', with hostmask 'Mikayla!~W@105.184.61.177', is not identified.

08:00:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10640 @ 0.00075996 = 8.086 BTC [-] {3}

08:01:44 Mikayla: ;;gpg info Mikayla

08:01:44 gribble: No such user registered.

08:05:14 mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/1h1f8mW7 to go with http://www.xenosystems.net/chaos-patch-33/

08:05:15 assbot: Mircea Popescu Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. The left is going - Pastebin.com

08:05:16 assbot: Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » Chaos Patch (#33)

08:08:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4850 @ 0.00076138 = 3.6927 BTC [+]

08:14:50 ben_vulpes: holy linkhole batman

08:21:32 ben_vulpes: 2 links in; found mr mold

08:30:04 fluffypony: looks like it's been moderately approved

08:30:43 mircea_popescu: lol

08:34:00 mircea_popescu: ow shit, i skimmed and misrepresented the author's bias.

08:34:19 mircea_popescu: he's with the trp troop, not with the perpetually frienzdoned sjw troop, is he.

08:35:05 mircea_popescu: "Examining difference in fertility, it is clear that fertility is primarily controlled by female status relative to their husbands. The more women are subordinated, the higher the fertility. "

08:35:09 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu? skimming? will wonders never cease.

08:35:09 mircea_popescu: the shit he links, too...

08:35:23 mircea_popescu: "examining unrelated events, it is clear that correlation causes causation!"

08:35:31 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i mostly skim.

08:35:42 ben_vulpes: although hey popehat that's a grand resource

08:35:44 mircea_popescu: that i somehow sitll understand anything is nothing short of miraculous.

08:36:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00075886 = 6.4503 BTC [-] {3}

08:38:25 mircea_popescu: "Women want to have sex with the highest status men available (as women perceive male status, which is similar to the way a small evil child raised by cannibal head hunters perceives status) and be supported by men."

08:38:27 mircea_popescu: fuck, seriously ?!

08:39:22 mircea_popescu: "Both sides of the war are better off if a cooperate/cooperate equilibrium is coercively imposed." oooo....rly ?!

08:39:28 mircea_popescu: check it out lol! bwahh

08:40:55 mircea_popescu: " If men own women, except that they may not resell them, cruelly mistreat them, rent them out, abandon them, nor even allow them to rent themselves out, then both men and women know who their children are and live with their children. The converse system, women owning men, would not work, because men would not know who their children were, would be denied the opportunity to invest in their children, and would theref

08:40:55 mircea_popescu: ore revolt."

08:41:06 mircea_popescu: logic.

08:41:26 mircea_popescu: ok, this has been worthwhile lmao.

08:43:51 ben_vulpes: no wait try this one http://www.xenosystems.net/the-cult-of-gnon/

08:43:53 assbot: Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » The Cult of Gnon

08:44:27 mircea_popescu: you corrupt me

08:45:07 mircea_popescu: "?Nature or Nature?s God? is an expression of special excellence, extracted (with subtle modification) from America?s Declaration of Independence."

08:45:10 mircea_popescu: myeah ok.

08:45:22 mircea_popescu: The World Started A Day Before I Was Born (tm)

08:46:22 bounce: re NO_SIGPIPE, the POSIX way appears to be fcntl(O_NONBLOCK)

08:57:58 *: mircea_popescu fears fcntl is a bit bondogley

08:59:14 ben_vulpes: aw shit i'm out of wine

09:00:29 mircea_popescu: better than the alternative!

09:00:40 ben_vulpes: which'd be too much wine?

09:01:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9539 @ 0.00075968 = 7.2466 BTC [+]

09:01:51 mircea_popescu: no, wine about being out of shit ?

09:03:00 ben_vulpes: pah

09:03:45 assbot: Vexual +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0

09:03:51 ben_vulpes: !up Vexual

09:04:01 Vexual: level 2?

09:04:09 ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot Vexual

09:04:10 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Vexual: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Vexual | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Vexual | Rated since: never

09:04:23 ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot muxne

09:04:24 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Vexual!~amnesia@gateway/tor-sasl/vexual. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user assbot to user muxne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=muxne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=muxne | Rated since: Sun Jun 22 00:11:14 2014

09:04:25 mircea_popescu: o.O you lost your citizenship vex ?

09:04:33 ben_vulpes: hahaha

09:04:37 Vexual: one day i don't read the logs

09:04:41 ben_vulpes: ;;rate muxne 1

09:04:42 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user muxne has been recorded.

09:05:02 ben_vulpes: you're welcome kakobrekla

09:05:03 Vexual: I knew it was a little naughty, I wasn't expecting that

09:06:07 ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot ninjashogun

09:06:08 gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=ninjashogun | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun | Rated since: Thu Jun 26 19:05:58 2014

09:07:07 Vexual: good day gents, how goes it?

09:07:34 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell dmzpkts tell me about ninjashogun's bet failure someday

09:07:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

09:12:00 Vexual: ;;rate kakobreka 1 straightshooter

09:12:00 gribble: Error: You do not meet qualifications for entering ratings.

09:15:12 Vexual: ;;seen pankakke

09:15:12 gribble: I have not seen pankakke.

09:26:06 Vexual: do I need a rating to rate?

09:28:04 Vexual: this is quite more like real life than i realised

09:31:14 Vexual: ;;rate muxne 1 king of common misconceptions

09:31:14 gribble: Error: You do not meet qualifications for entering ratings.

09:33:49 Vexual: ;;rate 1 ben_vuples does web better than you and other stuff too

09:33:49 gribble: Error: 'ben_vuples' is not a valid integer.

09:48:29 thestringpuller: !up Vexual

09:49:02 Vexual: living up to your nick

09:58:33 Vexual: ;;gettrust thestringpuller

09:58:34 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. Trust relationship from user muXne to user thestringpuller: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=muXne&dest=thestringpuller | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=thestringpuller | Rated since: Mon Oct 15 18:46:37 2012

10:01:54 thestringpuller: !s deturdification

10:01:55 assbot: 1 results for 'deturdification' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=deturdification

10:02:18 Vexual: nateable

10:02:25 Vexual: noteable

10:02:49 Vexual: you've lerned me some about wot

10:08:30 Vexual: if i've really losy my citizenship, i might just describe gravity on the way out

10:09:51 Vexual: it's alrgely unknown why two large bodies attract one another

10:12:15 Vexual: and the science is stuck in the mud, such forces require bigger comparisins

10:16:17 Vexual: smaller versions also being immesurable..

11:00:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8618 @ 0.00075803 = 6.5327 BTC [-] {2}

11:34:52 cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/10/jwt-intelligence-discuss-bitcoin-in-latest-report/

11:34:52 assbot: JWT Intelligence Discuss Bitcoin In Latest Report | Qntra.net

11:34:55 cazalla: good for a laugh

11:40:45 Adlai: cazalla: so in the last bullet point there, the patrons are paying through promoting the establishment in social media?

11:41:09 Adlai: that's not payment, that's barter :P

11:41:25 cazalla: given the choice.. fkn millenials i swear

11:42:19 Adlai: reminds me of a story where a class (probably economics, or MBAs) had to figure out how to best monetize $100 (roughly) over the course of a weekend

11:42:55 Adlai: some groups opened up a car wash, some groups resold stuff from yard sales, etc

11:43:15 cazalla: who did best

11:43:50 Adlai: the group that used their presentation chance the next week to advertise a local management consulting firm

11:44:46 Adlai: they realized that their audience in front of a few hundred students was much more valuable than their labor over a weekend

11:48:34 Adlai: current search engines are terrible for looking up this kind of story

11:48:45 *: Adlai remembers the general details but nothing precise

11:50:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00076065 = 8.3672 BTC [+] {2}

11:51:10 Adlai: who gave MOPE roofies

11:51:31 Adlai: bitcoin drops, mpex pops

11:52:04 Adlai: !up Vexual

11:52:14 Vexual: ty

11:52:20 Adlai: np, now get in wot

11:52:40 Vexual: i am, just not well absorbed

11:53:32 Vexual: I am only one man

11:56:54 Vexual: ;;getrust Adlai

11:56:55 gribble: Error: "getrust" is not a valid command.

11:57:17 Adlai: Fe₂O₃

11:57:42 Vexual: that makes me wanna play a song, you know this

11:58:44 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SOryJvTAGs

12:05:20 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwoK0u52Tw4 70

12:13:12 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbPGgcJJKdA

12:18:42 Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBG7P-K-r1Y

12:20:02 Adlai: oh so it's a youtube battle now? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QrLgEgvHXo

12:20:03 assbot: Cosmosis - Spanish Gypsy - YouTube

12:20:47 Vexual: mu back foot just turned into a claw

12:28:21 jurov: asciilifeform: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8510129

12:28:22 assbot: Engelbart's Violin (2012) | Hacker News

12:33:52 HeySteve: ;;gettrust Mikayla

12:33:52 gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Mikayla!~W@105.184.61.177. Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user Mikayla: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=HeySteve&dest=Mikayla | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Mikayla | Rated since: never

12:36:39 HeySteve: ;;rate Mikayla 1 Mikayla, so hot right now. Mikayla.

12:36:40 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Mikayla has been recorded.

13:01:10 jurov: http://www.coindesk.com/mark-karpeles-avoids-bitcoin-launches-web-hosting-service/

13:01:10 assbot: Mark Karpeles Avoids Bitcoin, Launches Web Hosting Service

13:53:00 punkman: I think it's up http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/

13:53:00 assbot: #bitcoin-assets deed registry

14:00:35 punkman: and the spam has begun: POST http://123.249.24.171/POST_ip_port.php => generated 797 bytes in 244 msecs (HTTP/1.0 404)

14:03:57 kakobrekla: <jurov> http://www.coindesk.com/mark-karpeles-avoids-bitcoin-launches-web-hosting-service/ < !lol!

14:03:57 assbot: Mark Karpeles Avoids Bitcoin, Launches Web Hosting Service

14:18:23 kakobrekla: punkman but where is the bot ?

15:10:18 bounce: sheesh, that market report really provides zilch technology background. "biometrics for security" taken as valid on face value. of course, it's all about brand image, not technology. but if it's glaringly obvious that it doesn't work, it would be dishonest to tout it.

15:33:21 chetty: marketing always does that, toss out words with no real meaning

15:56:32 bounce: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required/ar-BBbbfW3

15:56:32 assbot: Law Lets I.R.S. Seize Accounts on Suspicion, No Crime Required

16:01:05 jurov: twas just extensio if existing practice on property, no?

16:01:12 jurov: *extension of

16:01:36 jurov: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2014/10/24/elon-musk-with-artificial-intelligence-we-are-summoning-the-demon/ another AI expert

16:01:37 assbot: Elon Musk: ‘With artificial intelligence we are summoning the demon.’ - The Washington Post

16:02:01 jurov: anyone looked to the eurisko stuff leaked by stan?

16:04:47 kakobrekla: i only glanced over a few files.

16:05:04 bounce: http://nstic.blogs.govdelivery.com/2014/10/23/its-not-just-about-security-identity-is-the-great-enabler/

16:05:05 assbot: Its Not Just About Security; Identity is the Great Enabler | NSTIC NOTES

16:05:06 bounce: such propaganda

16:06:09 bounce: next we'll learn that the collective twits twittering on twittar causes AI

16:07:07 kakobrekla: >Increasingly scientists think there should be some regulatory oversight maybe at the national and international level, just to make sure that we don’t do something very foolish.

16:07:14 kakobrekla: like that ever helped with anything

16:08:13 bounce: it causes extra ruckus in the media when invariably something does go awry and some sort of rule or other turns out to have been flaunted

16:09:30 bounce: which then causes extra rules and more bureaucrats "overseeing" the rules and whatnot. it's sort of scar tissue. about as useful, at least as much of a pain.

16:23:32 kakobrekla: http://www.leviathansecurity.com/blog/the-case-of-the-modified-binaries/

16:24:41 kakobrekla: tor will patch your binaries.

16:36:54 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i linked this here a day or so ago

16:37:39 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the author of the exe diddler was dumb enough to be spotted, too (why patch all exes, and not look for the download to be part of a realistic luser browser session? retarded)

16:39:00 kakobrekla: asciilifeform> kakobrekla: i linked this here a day or so ago < ah, i guess i have achieved absolute redundancy.

16:39:47 asciilifeform: re: elon musk: two thing happening. a fella named yudkowsky has been pushing for 'regulate ai, or it will destroy us all!' line for a little short of a decade now. with him, of course, to be the fuhrer. (see lenat discussion. he considers anyone trying to resurrect lenat's work, assuming it wasn't fraudulent - we don't actually know this - to be a dangerous criminal worthy of extermination.)

16:40:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14530 @ 0.00075823 = 11.0171 BTC [-] {2}

16:40:29 asciilifeform: the other thing happening is that the lizardmen will never pass by a good excuse to 'regulate' (ban) powerful general-purpose computers.

16:41:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00075754 = 7.2724 BTC [-] {2}

16:41:26 asciilifeform: !s lesswrong

16:41:27 assbot: 15 results for 'lesswrong' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=lesswrong

16:41:34 asciilifeform: (the folks mentioned in thing number one)

16:42:43 asciilifeform: so far, there's been no reason for non-retarded people to care, because - we don't even have computers yet.

16:43:17 asciilifeform: let's imagine they get... interstellar shipping - banned.

16:43:44 asciilifeform: not a problem, until they knock on yer door, and say 'what's all this. you were looking into star drives, werentcha.'

16:44:26 asciilifeform: the thing that will actually happen:

16:45:02 asciilifeform: musk, mr y, some nameless folks from usg, will get together very soon and - if you're known to own a sufficiently large cluster of whateverthefuck - you gotta register...

16:45:16 asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing the -actual- motivation.

16:45:25 asciilifeform: 'you read it here phirst (tm)'

16:47:59 asciilifeform: re: ebama's biometric push:

16:48:00 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-10-2014#883672

16:48:00 assbot: Logged on 19-10-2014 18:39:40; asciilifeform: my hypothesis re: biometrics is, imho, the only one proposed so far that has explanatory power for the fact that idiotically lame, e.g., fingerprint readers, nevertheless are happily deployed en masse by usg

16:48:28 asciilifeform: (see entire thread)

16:52:32 jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv-Qb-dB6g watched it whole, good improvement over that infernal qwerty stuff

16:52:32 assbot: Plover: Thought to Text at 240 WPM - YouTube

17:00:24 asciilifeform: incidentally, herr musk has given us, free of charge, an answer to mircea_popescu's puzzle - that of whether usg apparatus is an inevitably-harmless headless chicken.

17:01:10 asciilifeform: the answer is - that it likely is. but - certain of its subjects, close to the chicken, will snatch opportunities to bolt on a new, mechanical head.

17:01:12 jurov: iirc he did not say "inevitably-harmless"

17:01:22 asciilifeform: !s meta-nsa

17:01:22 assbot: 28 results for 'meta-nsa' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=meta-nsa

17:01:37 jurov: more like "inevitably idiotically yapping around"

17:01:51 asciilifeform: well, meandering without intelligent purpose

17:01:57 asciilifeform: was, as i understand, the hypothesis

17:02:03 jurov: and quite a harm can arise from that

17:02:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00076134 = 3.1215 BTC [+] {2}

17:03:26 asciilifeform: at any rate, btc mining is the 'fulda gap moment' for all of these folks. all the shitgnomery corrupting, subverting computing mechanisms of every kind - suddenly, it all had a purpose.

17:04:23 jurov: i can't parse that

17:04:34 asciilifeform: !s fulda

17:04:34 assbot: 1 results for 'fulda' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=fulda

17:04:54 jurov: actually as long as they focus on the mining tech race, it's fine

17:05:06 asciilifeform: but they won't.

17:05:19 asciilifeform: it is far cheaper and easier to steal existing capacity.

17:06:23 asciilifeform: or, at the very least, prevent the 'wrong people' from building.

17:06:44 jurov: but we're already there

17:06:55 jurov: and it's mostly ok

17:07:18 *: asciilifeform is not equipped with the evidence needed to agree (or not) with 'it's mostly ok'

17:09:33 jurov: what i wanted to say, mining race isn't the most dangerous avenue of attack

17:11:33 jurov: and apple-like walled garden regulation of whole computing industry is quite a different thing

17:15:10 jurov: something like that may pass after well done scare of "child raping AI" but I don't see how it can be enforced in practice

17:24:21 assbot: ninjashogun +v failed; L1: 0, L2: -4

17:25:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4903 @ 0.00076007 = 3.7266 BTC [-]

17:28:58 punkman: .status

17:28:58 punkbot: punkman: No pending deeds | Last bundle n/a ago

17:29:02 punkman: .balance

17:29:02 punkbot: punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.01658 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 150 more bundles.

17:31:17 punkman: .deed http://dpaste.com/0ASFADM

17:31:18 assbot: dpaste: 0ASFADM

17:31:18 punkbot: punkman: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

17:33:40 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/149LB8VY

17:34:04 ben_vulpes: ;;gpginfo punkman

17:34:05 gribble: Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.

17:34:10 ben_vulpes: ;;ident punkman

17:34:10 gribble: Nick 'punkman', with hostmask 'punkman!~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman', is identified as user 'punkman', with GPG key id 33588BE08B232B13, key fingerprint F28E0095843B91CB22E7D65533588BE08B232B13, and bitcoin address None

17:40:32 punkman: .status

17:40:33 punkbot: punkman: No pending deeds | Last bundle 6 minutes and 54 seconds ago | 1 unconfirmed bundle

17:41:34 punkman: aye it works http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iL

17:41:34 assbot: Deed BXZKQx2i | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

17:41:52 punkman: let's see for how long

17:42:03 kakobrekla: can you add it here as well? http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots

17:42:03 assbot: irc_bots [bitcoin assets wiki]

17:42:19 kakobrekla: list the commands..

17:42:21 punkman: yeah will do

17:42:25 kakobrekla: k

17:42:42 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/149LB8VY

17:42:43 assbot: Bundle 149LB8VY | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

17:42:48 punkman: super!

17:43:28 ben_vulpes: 'download full bundle' link is broken

17:43:38 punkman: ben_vulpes: yeah will be fixed

17:44:46 Naphex: /window move 5

17:45:11 punkman: .balance

17:45:12 punkbot: punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.01647 BTC (0.0 unconfirmed), enough for 149 more bundles.

17:49:28 punkman: so if someone wants to do some independent verification, hash "BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ" with sha256, convert to big int, make Bitcoin private key with big int, verify the key's address is 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64.

17:56:06 jurov: ^ add to wiki?

17:58:21 asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps i should not have said 'mining' specifically. idea here is that once the buggers give up trying to destroy bitcoin, they will transition to employing any and all tools at their disposal - for robbery.

17:58:42 asciilifeform: well, theft, and robbery.

18:02:54 punkman: jurov: will make a standalone verifier for deeds

18:07:26 kakobrekla: >Apple-1 Sells for World Record $905,000 USD at Bonhams

18:07:27 kakobrekla: heh

18:14:08 asciilifeform: who was it who had the essay re: how rich folks use auctionable rarities as a kind of 'bitcoin' but with higher overhead costs ?

18:27:58 jurov: certain folks use camels but that's prolly not what you meant :)

18:29:30 asciilifeform: i just love how the krugman shitgnomes prattle on about the need for physical 'use-value' in currencies and then go on to bid on apple-1 pcbs and jackson pollack paintings

18:32:15 TheNewDeal: and the seekretly love the usian dollar

18:32:55 asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: how many of them keep their wealth in plain usd ?

18:33:10 asciilifeform: that's for the plebes, bred to be eaten

18:33:41 TheNewDeal: was going to say if theyre krugmanites, they have no wealth to speak of

18:34:06 asciilifeform: these folks have, like any elite, vast personal wealth (also an ocean of bezzle, yes)

18:34:07 TheNewDeal: bunch of economics majors that just graduates from the university

18:35:31 undata: while we're raging: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-10-24/hillary-clinton-no-longer-believes-that-companies-create-jobs

18:35:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00075956 = 11.4314 BTC [-] {3}

18:36:08 undata: nonzero chance that lady will be president someday

18:36:11 asciilifeform: i did specify that the pedigreed canvases and pcbs signed by steve jobs are analogous to bitcoin, rather than, say, gold - because, on account of gold being to some degree accessible to plebes, elaborate measures are taken to depress its price - no such equivalent for the picassos.

18:36:45 asciilifeform: undata: 'clitler' is the next annointed fuhrer. afaik this has been settled.

18:36:55 undata: haaa

18:37:26 TheNewDeal: it is quite obvious

18:37:32 bounce: shitty website unless you have a shiny iTablet

18:38:08 undata: I was going to say wannabe FDR in a skirt, but I like 'clitler'

18:38:16 bounce: is she trying to get out of the top dog position?

18:38:50 asciilifeform: if theyre krugmanites, they have no wealth to speak of << don't conflate the priests and their flock

18:39:08 asciilifeform: threadbare flock, butterball priests, as often is the case

18:49:49 asciilifeform: re: picassos as scrip for fraction of total planetary wealth: see also ancient thread, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-04-2014#607216

18:49:49 assbot: Logged on 06-04-2014 06:13:12; mircea_popescu: money can be sustenance or control.

18:51:41 asciilifeform: i dare to hypothesise an inevitable, 'zoological' enmity between folks who own, e.g., picasso canvas, (and understand why they own it!) - and bitcoin.

18:52:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6844 @ 0.0007591 = 5.1953 BTC [-]

18:55:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4108 @ 0.00075803 = 3.114 BTC [-]

18:59:01 jurov: how do they calculate the fraction?

18:59:15 asciilifeform: jurov: auction?

18:59:40 asciilifeform: jurov: afaik, that junk is only ever sold if owner died or 'needs the money'

18:59:50 *: jurov ponders

19:00:27 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-10-2014#885594

19:00:27 assbot: Logged on 21-10-2014 00:38:07; *: asciilifeform addresses the worms who people his future grave 'eh boys, you'll be lighting benjies with lit benjies'

19:00:31 asciilifeform: tell-tale smell of 'planetary allocation chit' - market worth of $item in usd (or whatever sane alternative, barrels of cement) never goes down.

19:00:31 kakobrekla: ^^

19:00:58 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: recall the 'buried treasure' discussion?

19:01:09 kakobrekla: which one? :)

19:01:34 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2013#413912

19:01:34 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2013 00:21:46; asciilifeform: buried goodies tend to result from folks who got clobbered before they could dig them up.

19:01:42 asciilifeform: possibly elsewhere.

19:02:25 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-12-2013#413915

19:02:25 assbot: Logged on 10-12-2013 00:23:47; asciilifeform: there'll be tales of 'buried' btc one day.

19:02:29 kakobrekla: plenty of those already.

19:02:37 asciilifeform: aye

19:02:41 asciilifeform: mr. scrapyard, etc

19:02:45 kakobrekla: mhm

19:03:56 kakobrekla: i suspekt even part of satoshis btc is buried

19:04:04 kakobrekla: you think his windows machine didnt crash? :)

19:04:27 TheNewDeal: Is this just an ongoing joke, or somewhat serious speculation?

19:04:44 *: asciilifeform does not believe 'satoshi' was actually retarded

19:04:54 asciilifeform: simulated retardation - yes

19:04:56 asciilifeform: actual - doubtful

19:04:57 TheNewDeal: thank god... err satoshi

19:05:35 asciilifeform: at any rate, buried != destroyed

19:05:51 undata: or the guy was just more into math than coding

19:05:54 kakobrekla: ill just pretend to pretend to be stupid, it will keep me safe.

19:06:03 undata: pretty ungrateful to call the guy retarded.

19:06:07 bounce: simulated retardation for your... what?

19:07:53 TheNewDeal: what about the speculation of it being more than one person? Is that not as accepted?

19:08:12 asciilifeform: bourbaki hypothesis?

19:09:18 kakobrekla: is there a benefit to masking a team with a person?

19:09:27 asciilifeform: ;;google bourbaki

19:09:28 gribble: Nicolas Bourbaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki; Charles-Denis Bourbaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Denis_Bourbaki; Bourbaki: A Secret Society of Mathematicians: Maurice Mashaal ...: http://www.amazon.com/Bourbaki-A-Secret-Society-Mathematicians/dp/0821839675

19:09:37 asciilifeform: ask them.

19:10:36 kakobrekla: so instead of Bourbaki we have also Courbaki and Dourbaki...

19:10:47 kakobrekla: who gives a shit?

19:14:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7550 @ 0.00075838 = 5.7258 BTC [+] {2}

19:21:36 kakobrekla: speaking of old and expensive hw;

19:21:37 kakobrekla: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-Gray-SSK-Space-Saving-Keyboard-IBM-Model-M-1395682-Buckling-Spring/321560366465?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D26942%26meid%3Dd2e3eeb9b2454edc91dfc8e9dd5f954c%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D11184%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D251689522638&rt=nc

19:21:39 assbot: Industrial Gray SSK Space Saving Keyboard IBM Model M 1395682 Buckling Spring | eBay

19:21:44 kakobrekla: hehe

19:25:48 punkman: I want something like http://www.wetkeys.com/Silver-Storm-Washable-Medical-Grade-Keyboard-p/stk503.htm but less shitty

19:25:49 assbot: Silver Storm Washable Medical Grade Keyboard - Dishwasher Safe & Antimicrobial (Black) (USB) | STK503 by Seal Shield - More Styles and Brands than Anywhere Else at WetKeys Washable and Waterproof Keyboards.

19:27:57 kakobrekla: hm?

19:35:37 ben_vulpes: is -regtest not avail in 0.5.3?

19:37:17 ben_vulpes: first showed up on wiki in march 2014

19:45:35 undata: b-b-b-backport breaker

19:48:56 ben_vulpes: lol

19:56:54 ben_vulpes: ick ick ick ick ick

19:57:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00075603 = 11.8697 BTC [-] {2}

19:59:22 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: dafuq would anyone want a castrato 'model m' for

19:59:36 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: numpad forever.

20:01:00 asciilifeform: punkman: all rubber membrane keyboards (virtually anything you'll find in a store today) are washable.

20:06:42 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you weren't kidding about "glue and glass"

20:08:41 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you think we're the first to try ripping the graffiti off ?

20:09:04 ben_vulpes: never imagined such.

20:09:16 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if it were trivial, it would've been done by a dilettante and result posted publicly.

20:09:54 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as it is, i venture to guess that it's been done, so far, only by folks who live and die by the result, and aren't terribly eager to share live 'weaponized' code (people such as mircea)

20:10:36 asciilifeform: i'll guess that he started with a clean satoshi-era snapshot - brought up to compatibility with extant network

20:11:27 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2014#894568 << beginning of that thread, for those who slept through it

20:11:27 assbot: Logged on 25-10-2014 03:54:31; asciilifeform: mod6: when shitgnomes glue their crap on, they use paste with broken glass.

20:11:44 ben_vulpes: i've a question about mining, for anyone who knows.

20:12:23 ben_vulpes: pool administrators determine block size, correct?

20:12:33 asciilifeform: (check out poettering et. al 's broken glass!)

20:13:38 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in the sense that 'pool administrators' determine what bitcoin even -is-

20:13:55 asciilifeform: in the 'one hash/sec, one vote' sense

20:16:00 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as mircea_popescu pointed out, miners have almost nothing to gain - and everything to lose - by posting weaponized code.

20:16:15 asciilifeform: one can only make educated guesses re: what's running.

20:17:25 asciilifeform: at some point, perhaps, a major mine operator will be pwned and his crown jewels throw to the mob. then we can study live code.

20:17:53 punkman: asciilifeform: tried dishwasher once, thing never worked again, but yeah I've heard it's usually ok

20:18:23 asciilifeform: punkman: electronics generally are to be washed with cold water, and then again with ethanol.

20:19:06 asciilifeform: punkman: if you own a vacuum chamber - dry therein.

20:19:12 punkman: I'd also like a mouse with less edges and crevices that accumulate gunk

20:19:25 asciilifeform: ;;google alcoholic mouse

20:19:25 gribble: Alcoholic mice live to drink - Futurity: http://www.futurity.org/alcoholic-mice-live-to-drink/; NIH develops improved mouse model of alcoholic liver disease: http://www.nih.gov/news/health/feb2013/niaaa-28.htm; Mouse models used for the study of alcoholic liver injury ... - Nature: http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v8/n3/fig_tab/nprot.2013.032_T1.html

20:19:28 asciilifeform: fail

20:20:25 punkman: did the foundation charter get written?

20:20:35 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ^

20:21:59 asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0A9NGC9

20:22:00 assbot: dpaste: 0A9NGC9

20:22:02 ben_vulpes: punkman: a draft did, yeah. look for mod6's dpaste

20:22:08 asciilifeform: ^ that was it

20:22:39 asciilifeform: mice << http://foldoc.org/drunk+mouse+syndrome

20:22:39 assbot: drunk mouse syndrome from FOLDOC

20:23:36 asciilifeform: punkman: a good amateur machining project might be a 'teflon' mouse.

20:23:52 asciilifeform: punkman: can easily use the internals of a regular mouse for the electronics.

20:24:44 *: mircea_popescu remebers bacl when regular mouse wasn't usable for optostuff

20:25:03 asciilifeform: back when optical mouse needed mirror mat?

20:25:06 asciilifeform: rather

20:25:34 mircea_popescu: nah, just had an anal bead at the center

20:25:41 mircea_popescu: which you had to clean

20:25:55 asciilifeform: i own such a mouse, came with a prehistoric 'sun pizza box.' they have very little in common with modern optical mice - simply a pair of photodiodes and matching emitters

20:26:18 mircea_popescu: yup

20:26:18 asciilifeform: the mats (originally solid aluminum?) had reflective strips, a la road paint

20:26:55 asciilifeform: modern optical mouse is actually a b&w camera with some dsp magic glued on.

20:27:17 asciilifeform: there are even tricks to turn some extant models into a usable 'microscope.'

20:28:04 kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> kakobrekla: numpad forever. < i own both, use 'castrato'.

20:28:13 kakobrekla: anyway, personal preference. lets move on.

20:28:45 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/e4639521937ee82faabaac5a23e39bdc/tumblr_n9aekerRnZ1rtjp32o1_500.jpg

20:29:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: laugh, but in usa there are folks who mod that rifle to take belt.

20:29:29 punkman: punkbot, status

20:29:29 punkbot: punkman: No pending deeds | Last bundle 2 hours, 55 minutes, and 50 seconds ago

20:29:31 asciilifeform: i think BingoBoingo linked to one vendor recently.

20:29:40 punkman: punkbot, deed http://pastebin.com/fmAcQ5L0

20:29:40 assbot: - Pastebin.com

20:29:40 mircea_popescu: o hey so it's good to go punkman ?

20:29:40 punkbot: punkman: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

20:29:55 punkman: mircea_popescu: aya, try it

20:29:59 punkman: *aye

20:30:03 mircea_popescu: splendid. anything it doesn't do of the spec ?

20:30:47 punkman: it hashes bundles in two stages, so you don't have to keep the full bundle around

20:31:01 mircea_popescu: how's that work ?

20:31:54 mircea_popescu: holy shit that Mikayla chick is in the wot now ?!

20:32:11 mircea_popescu: ;;rated mikayla

20:32:11 gribble: You have not yet rated user mikayla

20:32:15 punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key

20:32:49 mircea_popescu: ;;rate mikayla 1 smart woman stuck in modest circumstances. help her get out.

20:32:52 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mikayla has been recorded.

20:32:58 punkman: which gives us nice addresses for deeds, http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawa

20:32:58 assbot: Deed kLuzx7GD | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

20:33:36 mircea_popescu: punkman hm. this is actually an improvement on my spec. who ever thought such possible!

20:33:56 mircea_popescu: so now, you just gotta keep the bundle set of hashes, and if someone wants to prove his stuff was there, well, bring something that hashes to the hash ?

20:33:58 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/13VBRJSt

20:33:58 assbot: Bundle 13VBRJSt | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

20:34:08 punkman: mircea_popescu: yep

20:34:19 *: asciilifeform somehow thought that original spec called for precisely this

20:35:05 punkman: .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=MU2TEWPG

20:35:06 punkbot: punkman: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

20:35:30 mircea_popescu: a dozen or so hashes to choose from don't really give any advantage

20:35:34 mircea_popescu: yeah, this is an improvement.

20:35:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah original spec called for keeping all the deeds, as a sort of primitive distributed backup

20:35:59 asciilifeform: aha hm.

20:36:09 punkman: anyone wants to keep a mirror, I'll make the thing push bundles to you

20:36:32 punkman: or maybe I just make an rss feed, possibly filtered by keyid

20:36:41 mircea_popescu: punkman if you want a dyi mirror, i can give you a cpanel ?

20:36:48 mircea_popescu: rss feed excellent idea.

20:36:59 mircea_popescu: so mod6 ben_vulpes, do we have a charter to go in there ?

20:37:01 punkman: Ragnar will run a mirror on somethin.deedbot.com

20:37:29 mircea_popescu: did kakobrekla delegate deeds.bitcoin-assets.com jetzt ?

20:37:52 mircea_popescu: ;;rated punkman

20:37:53 gribble: You rated user punkman on Fri May 16 09:11:15 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Talent scout and secret agent..

20:38:01 punkman: can I still be secret agent

20:38:11 mircea_popescu: ;;rate punkman 2 improved on my spec!

20:38:12 gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user punkman has changed from 1 to 2.

20:38:17 kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> did kakobrekla delegate deeds.bitcoin-assets.com jetzt ? < it works, no?

20:38:22 mircea_popescu: punkman nah, your cover \was blown. maybe after the operation ?

20:38:25 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lovely!

20:39:04 punkman: punkbot, balance

20:39:04 punkbot: punkman: Balance at 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny is 0.01647 BTC (-0.00011 unconfirmed), enough for 149 more bundles.

20:39:16 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1ZHZR0K.txt )

20:39:16 mircea_popescu: !b 2

20:39:26 kakobrekla: !d 2

20:39:29 mircea_popescu: you two are fucking cute talking to each other :D

20:39:32 kakobrekla: you know, deed 2.

20:42:08 asciilifeform: jurov: consider integrating your turdatron with this bot ?

20:45:47 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/13VBRJSt

20:45:47 assbot: Bundle 13VBRJSt | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

20:48:59 jurov: asciilifeform: how? generate a deed for every patch?

20:51:29 mircea_popescu: jurov use it directly to post as a mail list ?

20:51:46 mircea_popescu: punkman how hard would it be to make it next comments ?

20:51:51 mircea_popescu: nest*

20:53:01 jurov: i'd prefer to get real email

20:53:25 mircea_popescu: i wonder how this'd be best approached.

20:53:25 jurov: and i don't see a value iin redoing the browsable archives that mailman generates

20:54:26 ben_vulpes: no sense tangling things

20:54:30 jurov: you want to set in stone only the patches themselves, no?

20:54:37 mircea_popescu: yea maybe the best approach here is staying home

20:55:00 ben_vulpes: should anyone *want* to endeedify their patch, they're welcome to.

20:55:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24250 @ 0.00075982 = 18.4256 BTC [+] {2}

20:55:20 asciilifeform: i'd say it would be wise to have the 'who/what' cemented in some form.

20:55:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, if the jurovman only accepts inbound from lordsheep list...

20:56:02 mircea_popescu: it is cemented in a pretty good form

20:56:55 jurov: i think the request was to prevent later posting of modified (and newly signed) patches by someone

20:57:08 asciilifeform: aha.

20:57:35 mircea_popescu: so then who/what/when more like ?

20:57:37 jurov: autoendeedify can be done in v2 turdatron

20:57:49 mircea_popescu: lol

20:57:54 asciilifeform: when << yes.

20:57:55 mircea_popescu: ;;ud autoendeedify

20:57:55 gribble: Google found nothing.

20:58:02 mircea_popescu: google you know jack shit.

20:59:04 asciilifeform: as per kakobrekla's stern warning some weeks ago, a full-bore approach (complete with future gallows) for shitgnomes has the flipside of needing to ensure against ending up swinging there by mistake.

21:00:18 asciilifeform: 'shall be delivered.'

21:01:30 asciilifeform: at any rate, it seems like we're on the path to a 'patch-chain' - so no chance of authorship being permanently obscured, unless everyone somehow manages to lose his backup

21:02:21 jurov: btw if other people will sign a concrete patch, that prevents later diddling anyway

21:03:11 mircea_popescu: ^

21:03:22 asciilifeform: the signed patches should provide watertight alibis for the innocent, and unquestionable smoking guns for the guilty - but a sufficiently 'pants and suspenders' approach should send a message to enemy against even trying.

21:03:41 jurov: mpd6 the statutes say nothing of treasurer and his remuneration

21:03:48 jurov: mod6 ^

21:03:55 asciilifeform: lol wait that actually happened?

21:04:10 jurov: if you unanimously decided there will be one, that is

21:04:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00075658 = 4.7286 BTC [-]

21:04:30 asciilifeform: who's 'you' ?

21:04:35 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ?

21:04:39 mod6: yeah, i think it was decided that we'd put that in a seperate document.

21:05:33 jurov: and you forgot to add satoshi as a cochair</troll>

21:05:36 asciilifeform: who volunteered to contribute to the piggy ?

21:06:06 mod6: jurov: heheh

21:06:39 mod6: i wish

21:07:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform me, for one.

21:07:10 mircea_popescu: some other people iirc.

21:07:13 asciilifeform: aha

21:07:59 mircea_popescu: unrelated, http://33.media.tumblr.com/6187c9e38926313c0b7e1af57e4ac809/tumblr_ndbqu67Noc1sxuyfpo1_500.jpg

21:09:13 Duffer1: who volunteered to contribute to the piggy ? >> do i get nifty unique reddit flair for donating?

21:09:18 Duffer1: ^.^

21:09:40 asciilifeform: satoshi << hilarious gedankenexperiment! if a patch shows up signed with his key, is it to be considered?

21:09:56 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 maybe you just get lapdances from b-a slut co.

21:09:59 mod6: so this is the latest version of the chater: http://dpaste.com/286VJ3N

21:10:00 assbot: dpaste: 286VJ3N

21:10:03 kakobrekla: dun worry ascii he is not in level 2

21:10:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd rate him and so there we go.

21:10:21 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: just that, at this point, his key ought to be presumed as belonging to his executioner.

21:10:36 mod6: need to figure out if we should add in jurov or what's happening there. then we need a pub address.

21:10:50 mircea_popescu: mod6 what's ben_vulpes say ?

21:11:17 kakobrekla: asciilifeform at which exact point this presumption should be applied?

21:11:35 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the 64kbtc question.

21:11:39 kakobrekla: hehe

21:11:41 mircea_popescu: i personally dun see it.

21:12:09 asciilifeform: this would be a most peculiar time for mr. s to come back from the dead.

21:12:18 kakobrekla: anyway, this signature thing does not make one trust another blindly

21:12:24 kakobrekla: so check code.

21:12:32 asciilifeform: attribution is the magic word here, not trust.

21:12:54 mircea_popescu: undata: and they will spend it how? << don't be silly. every place with intenret has a bitcoin trader by now.

21:12:57 kakobrekla: you can only flag key, not person.

21:13:03 mircea_popescu: how do you think they have phones ? tshirts ?

21:13:13 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 what's ben_vulpes say ? << contract afterwards essentially, meanwhile waiting to hear back, just got back. trying to catch up

21:13:14 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla has it.

21:13:26 asciilifeform: 'business with keys, sex with people'

21:13:28 kakobrekla: maybe his executioner writes even better code, on linux.

21:13:36 asciilifeform: selinux.

21:13:40 kakobrekla: whatever

21:13:42 mircea_popescu: maybe all his executioner really wanted is to impress us.

21:13:49 asciilifeform: lol

21:13:52 mircea_popescu: it's been known to happen.

21:14:26 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: that's actually not bad, only ~425 pages << and suddenly, a feasible appears!

21:14:41 *: asciilifeform can't help but remember ancient, trashy soviet film about an inventor kid, who builds a magic time-machine thingie from a phone booth, and retrieves, inevitably - grandpa lenin - who smiles and approves of his life

21:15:06 mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: but is it likely << somewhat likely yes.

21:15:14 mircea_popescu: the reason bullet to the head kills is it tumbles,

21:15:24 mircea_popescu: and the reason .38 is better bullet to head than 45 is same

21:15:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what'd you do with a time machine ?

21:15:56 asciilifeform: no tumbling at close range. shockwave - yes.

21:16:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what'd you do with a time machine << lol, obviously, hop in

21:16:24 mircea_popescu: well yeah but i mean in terms of use.

21:16:35 mircea_popescu: i think i'd mostly document whore heraldry.

21:16:45 mircea_popescu: as in, check out the mothers of current pros, and their mothers, and so on.

21:16:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does not do half-measures!

21:17:15 mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares about lenin/random celeb. odds are they're overbought.

21:17:23 asciilifeform: not me.

21:17:41 asciilifeform: though i'd succumb to the temptation of popping in to visit mr. tesla, possibly

21:18:38 *: mircea_popescu does not deliberately check out males he doesn't know. busting into the life of a woman is one thing, but a dude...

21:18:45 asciilifeform: lulz

21:18:47 jurov: It is altogether probable that its effects will conflict with all currently established human conventions. << +1 for flair

21:19:07 mircea_popescu: ;;give jurov flair

21:19:08 *: gribble gives jurov flair

21:19:15 asciilifeform: ;;google robert sheckley double indemnity

21:19:16 gribble: Robert Sheckley short stories bibliography - Wikipedia, the free ...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sheckley_short_stories_bibliography; Notions: Unlimited - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notions:_Unlimited; The Art of Leo and Diane Dillon: Robert Sheckley: Double Indemnity: http://leo-and-diane-dillon.blogspot.com/2013/07/robert- (1 more message)

21:19:20 asciilifeform: fail.

21:19:29 mircea_popescu: google is ever more useful.

21:19:38 decimation: wait you wouldn't murder hitler pre-cog style?

21:19:44 *: asciilifeform wonders if their 'warez censor' is online now

21:19:52 decimation: or maybe the Jacobins?

21:20:01 asciilifeform: decimation: blow away jizzus while yer at it

21:20:15 decimation: no no he's my God

21:20:20 mircea_popescu: decimation nop.

21:20:31 mircea_popescu: i am not particularly against the past.

21:20:32 asciilifeform: god'll just spit out bullet & smile

21:20:52 mircea_popescu: maybe just kidnap magda ?

21:21:10 decimation: good point.

21:21:15 mircea_popescu: this could make a good comic premise, incidentally.

21:21:25 asciilifeform: http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4470298 << untested

21:21:25 assbot: [] Robert Sheckley / - (94 .) [1999 ., PDF/EPUB/FB2/HTM/HTML/DOC/RTF/TXT, ENG] :: RuTracker.org (ex torrents.ru)

21:21:27 mircea_popescu: determined guy wants to end christianity in the present, builds time machine

21:21:30 mircea_popescu: tries EVERYTHING

21:21:32 mircea_popescu: but nothing works

21:21:38 decimation: I've always imagined what would happen if I were marooned in pre-history with a few choice textbooks

21:21:42 mircea_popescu: until one day he falls in love with the hooker, leaves with her. that does it.,

21:22:19 oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/wetsteel/

21:22:20 assbot: Wet Steel

21:22:47 jurov: my version would be - he encounters hooker on the other end, fucks her, gets snapped back immediately

21:23:03 mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net << the slow climb of qntra!

21:23:04 assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast

21:23:16 mircea_popescu: jurov immediately and repeatedly ?

21:23:22 jurov: mircea_popescu: heraldry of whores

21:23:25 mircea_popescu: what if her suction's stronger than machine ?

21:23:38 asciilifeform: obligatory time machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR56uNg2XQs&feature=youtu.be&t=2m43s

21:23:38 assbot: ( 2) () - YouTube

21:23:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00075658 = 8.5115 BTC [-]

21:24:16 mircea_popescu: Monthly Uniques 747 US 1.4K Global | This site reaches over 1,169 monthly people, of which 619 (53%) are in the U.S. <<< numbers, right ? why would they need to match.

21:24:18 jurov: ^ noticed jews have it pretty much down, no loyal wives are named on old testament?

21:24:23 jurov: *in

21:24:30 mircea_popescu: what about rachel

21:25:25 mod6: lol, the bull is chasing newton

21:26:20 asciilifeform: (ru film about derpy f-student kid who goes to the past to zap historical notables so he won't have to study them)

21:26:50 TheNewDeal: Is that the reverse of Bill and Ted with Keanu Reeves?

21:26:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: master of anything, will have some fucked up organ. << master pimp.

21:27:05 asciilifeform: no prizes for which organ

21:27:11 mircea_popescu: prostate ?

21:28:03 mircea_popescu: *: asciilifeform can't really picture woman playing this game << dude you were in a different ukraine or what ? i have yet to meet a uk chick that doesn't drink.

21:28:24 asciilifeform: chess not drink.

21:28:36 mircea_popescu: anything's a good excuse.

21:31:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: there's your mechanism, there. << gotta say the configurable with loopback approach is actually not bad

21:31:36 mircea_popescu: then people can be really secure built from the ground up by running a coupla vms on the same machine :D

21:31:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's the primary reason i suggested zapping the toy os ports

21:33:03 mircea_popescu: hanbot: haha! where are the burning man btc gizmos anyway, i want a bitonkadonk << wait, i thought you... HAD ONE

21:34:04 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/171BanmC

21:34:04 assbot: Bundle 171BanmC | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

21:34:58 mircea_popescu: Sorry, the requested URL 'http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/raw_bundles/17/171BanmCMde84Zr28Z4EsCzXw4nGZdfPaG.rbundle' caused an error:

21:34:58 mircea_popescu: Not found: '/raw_bundles/17/171BanmCMde84Zr28Z4EsCzXw4nGZdfPaG.rbundle'

21:35:00 mircea_popescu: punkbot ^

21:35:20 hanbot: mircea_popescu i meant of the motorized variety

21:35:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00075658 = 5.9392 BTC [-]

21:36:01 mircea_popescu: punkman ^

21:36:02 *: asciilifeform configurable with loopback approach << regards the whole orchestra as eminently obvious to anyone who thinks hard, and that all this can be done by the folks here without breaking a sweat

21:36:08 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 171BanmCMde84Zr28Z4EsCzXw4nGZdfPaG | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/171BanmC

21:36:09 assbot: Bundle 171BanmC | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

21:38:03 mircea_popescu: https://blockchain.info/address/171BanmCMde84Zr28Z4EsCzXw4nGZdfPaG << output still unspent, btw.

21:38:03 assbot: Bitcoin Address 171BanmCMde84Zr28Z4EsCzXw4nGZdfPaG

21:38:14 ben_vulpes: i was just wondering about that!

21:38:20 ben_vulpes: where are the script kiddies draining the faucet...

21:39:14 kakobrekla: just wait for the google to parse logs

21:39:43 mircea_popescu: not user friendly.

21:40:06 kakobrekla: the logs? myea.

21:42:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ideally, we'd have a patch and a collection of detached sigs of the plain ascii of the patch <<< detached sigs are in fact a reimplementation of the old punch cards

21:42:54 mircea_popescu: god fucking help you if you drop a stack

21:43:05 asciilifeform: don't drop the stack.

21:43:11 asciilifeform: 'doctor, it hurts!'

21:43:25 mircea_popescu: the drop callback is in the stack api.

21:43:29 bounce: "here, have some pills"

21:43:31 mircea_popescu: you don't want me to drop it, do not put it in there.

21:44:02 asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.

21:44:13 mircea_popescu: how would it do that ?

21:44:35 asciilifeform: if i knew - we'd have it.

21:44:58 mircea_popescu: see ? god hates us.

21:45:03 mircea_popescu: where's your baby jesus now, decimation ?

21:45:03 asciilifeform: one possible method - toss the sig in the head of the file

21:45:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how about fixed offset and padding ?

21:45:34 asciilifeform: applicable, in that scheme, to the remainder after the ------END...

21:45:45 mircea_popescu: clearsigned file, always 16kb long, after which the signed matter begins

21:46:57 mircea_popescu: you know, thinking about this, i think i actyally want pgp reimplemented. usgavin's speshul maths about how things improve make me realise that having a pure rsa based code rather than the current encode a symmetric chypher method is perhaps feasible.

21:47:10 mircea_popescu: add to that a fixed-offset clearsigned thing, all of a sudden there's good reason to implement

21:47:19 asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/PGQhLqnL << example

21:47:19 assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgA - Pastebin.com

21:47:50 bounce: why do you want pure rsa?

21:48:04 mircea_popescu: bounce because i can.

21:48:22 bounce: that's the technology equivalent of "hold my beer and watch this"

21:48:43 Apocalyptic: by the way are SHA1 gpg-signed messages considered read ? I read somewhere one might rather use sha256 or higher, don't know if there's any merit to that claim

21:48:54 Apocalyptic: s/read/safe

21:49:13 asciilifeform: bunchafolks have old keys (incl. yours truly)

21:49:18 bounce: sha1 is on the way out (don't use for new stuff) but not dead yet (can keep using what you have)

21:49:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even. more like this : http://pastebin.com/JUAH07uY

21:49:37 assbot: iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUPq+fAAoJELmCKKABq//Hw2sH/RHgCQ0d9urUfJXm4T2zjcog FHG4tSmH3WVLO9 - Pastebin.com

21:49:37 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: your otc key?

21:49:46 mircea_popescu: in that example, a 256 byte fixed sigspace.

21:49:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: same idea

21:49:57 mircea_popescu: yup.

21:50:06 asciilifeform: fixed - bad, not everyone has same key length

21:50:13 mircea_popescu: file is defined as, 256bytes + "##### The following is signed above :"+message.

21:50:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you pad .

21:50:30 mircea_popescu: hence original 16kb.

21:50:33 asciilifeform: also eol char variation derpery

21:50:49 mircea_popescu: no special chars honored. it's all armored.

21:51:03 asciilifeform: aye, but then why fixed byte strings

21:51:16 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic not considered read, but weak digest. good idea to upgrade.

21:51:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to make it as independent as possible ?

21:51:47 mircea_popescu: much simpler machines to work it if it knows a straight offset

21:52:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's not the issue. just about everyone is putting ascii through some raper that mutilates unprintables (www browsers, toy operating systems, etc)

21:52:33 asciilifeform: this wouldn't be a problem except if you have fixed fields

21:52:54 asciilifeform: which will frame-shift as the contents get procrusted by the idiot code

21:53:15 Apocalyptic: just noticed that all deeds processed by deadbot are SHA1-hashed so far

21:54:00 Apocalyptic: which is what gpg produces by default I guess

21:54:42 asciilifeform: see the 'broken glass' discussion earlier, also.

21:55:22 asciilifeform: most folks never try 'gnawing through the leather straps,' but once you do - you learn how thick they are.

21:57:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obviously, since fixed length, it can go back to the end of the file.

21:57:21 mircea_popescu: proggy gets 65kb file, cuts 16k off its end recursively, spits out 1kb of text signed by 4 people

21:57:46 mircea_popescu: and again, armored. nothing but letters and digits in there. not even +/ etc.

21:58:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when idiot www crud or os (anywhere in the chain) starts gnawing at your line endings, or adding line noise, you blow the fixed frame

21:58:26 mircea_popescu: how ?

21:58:55 mircea_popescu: !s sha1

21:58:56 assbot: 30 results for 'sha1' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sha1

21:58:57 asciilifeform: winblow cr, lf line ending

21:59:11 asciilifeform: often gets auto-substituted in place of proper ones

21:59:23 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2014#877599

21:59:23 assbot: Logged on 16-10-2014 14:00:51; mircea_popescu: btw, cazalla bingoboingo and everyone else in the same situation : if the blob gpg spits out when you sign contains a SHA1 you are using the older, and perhaps not all that secure digest algo. you should move on to sha512 either with --digest-algo SHA512 or else edit gpg.conf to insert personal-digest-preferences SHA512 SHA384 SHA256

21:59:54 Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, I just found that line to fix the issue, but thank you

22:00:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but you don't use cf, lf etc.

22:00:06 asciilifeform: me - no

22:00:14 mircea_popescu: no, the re-pgp imp,ementation

22:00:34 asciilifeform: but what of all those poor sods stuck on antideluvian ms-dos abominations

22:00:42 mircea_popescu: o, now we care ?

22:00:56 asciilifeform: only in so far as their crud has made its way into www browsers, etc

22:00:57 mircea_popescu: shit son. if only i knew about this, we could have made diff design changes on bitcoin core.

22:01:05 asciilifeform: lol

22:01:14 asciilifeform: idea is mutilation-resistance

22:01:20 mircea_popescu: why ?

22:01:29 mircea_popescu: idea is, "it only works if it works"

22:01:34 asciilifeform: because if not, why even bother with ascii, use gpg binary format

22:01:46 mircea_popescu: because i can't read that.

22:01:53 mircea_popescu: why even bother with a proper init, use systemd

22:01:54 *: asciilifeform likes to examine turds with naked eyes

22:01:58 asciilifeform: lol

22:02:33 mircea_popescu: anyway, thgis is more an aesthetic consideratyion. ditching symmetric cyphers is the more substantial thing, and since a reimplementation happenes, might as well add aesthetics.

22:02:52 asciilifeform: don't misunderstand, i like the 'fixed fields' idea, but am also aware that shitgnome excretions in a hundred places in commonplace toolchains will silently screw with it.

22:03:07 mircea_popescu: so that means those toolchains will have to change or die ?

22:03:08 mircea_popescu: o noes!

22:03:11 asciilifeform: ehehe

22:03:25 mircea_popescu: i feel so bad forcing inconvenient change upon random people.

22:03:28 mircea_popescu: like bathing.

22:03:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu probably recalls our convo re: pure-rsa. we'll have it.

22:03:43 jurov: .d https://coinbr.com/punkman_bbet.txt.asc

22:04:06 jurov: ha. does it do htps?

22:04:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: though it will further imperil folks who are enciphering on hardware without proper rng.

22:04:18 mircea_popescu: jurov https is evil in the eyes of the punkbot!!1

22:04:22 asciilifeform: (need lotsa padding)

22:04:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the cypher itself is too short anyway

22:04:45 mircea_popescu: so no, it won't imperil them, it will just make the peril obvious

22:04:51 asciilifeform: aha

22:05:03 asciilifeform: but with pure-rsa, enciphering on a generic pc will be a suicidal act.

22:05:15 mircea_popescu: so make the fucking cardano already.

22:05:16 punkman: .deed https://coinbr.com/punkman_bbet.txt.asc

22:05:16 punkbot: punkman: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle.

22:05:22 asciilifeform: cardano-1 doesn't encipher...

22:05:31 jurov: lol

22:05:39 mircea_popescu: JUSTTTTT do itttt!

22:05:42 *: asciilifeform sincerely hopes no one is surprised

22:06:19 kakobrekla: jurov what will you deliver if bbet delists?

22:07:01 jurov: i can maintain virtual balances on coinbr just for him

22:07:03 punkman: picture of shares?

22:07:19 mircea_popescu: i guess he delivers a copy of the above ?

22:07:22 mircea_popescu: on a postcard.

22:07:52 kakobrekla: unserious.

22:09:24 jurov: ha. poor qntra writer deeds will contain clause like "receiver is responsible for identifying any circumstances that may render this agreement void and act accordingly"

22:10:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wanted padding...

22:10:47 asciilifeform: random padding lol

22:11:00 jurov: "such as, mpex delisting, impending death, etc."

22:11:27 asciilifeform: http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/1448/definition-of-textbook-rsa << for schoolchildren

22:11:28 assbot: cryptanalysis - Definition of Textbook RSA - Cryptography Stack Exchange

22:13:02 mircea_popescu: myeah, the only bitch is that determinism.

22:13:10 asciilifeform: http://www.di.ens.fr/~pnguyen/pub_BoJoNg00.htm << for more advanced student

22:13:57 mircea_popescu: also doing away with the 65537 static and instead using any 64bit integer with exactly 32 on bits would be better.

22:14:08 punkman: .status

22:14:08 punkbot: punkman: 1 pending deed | Last bundle 40 minutes and 5 seconds ago

22:16:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that one's for when you built a Si fab

22:16:06 mircea_popescu: why ?

22:16:09 mircea_popescu: it's not THAT slow.

22:16:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: space.

22:16:31 mircea_popescu: what space ? srsly ?

22:16:38 mircea_popescu: somehow making movies "HD" is ok for space

22:16:39 asciilifeform: the 32k in me micro, that space

22:16:49 mircea_popescu: what micro ?

22:16:59 asciilifeform: cardano, what other

22:17:13 mircea_popescu: i wasn't talking about the cardano! i was talking about the new pgp

22:17:17 asciilifeform: ehe

22:19:41 jurov: mircea_popescu: other people's signatures will be detached from definition... or do you want to include the patch everywhere?

22:19:54 mircea_popescu: jurov huh?

22:20:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, know of any rng process to compute fixed count onbits random numbers ?

22:20:17 jurov: author sends email with attached patch and signature as similarly-named attachments

22:20:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is helpfully reminded that not all mersenne numbers are mersenne primes!

22:20:31 jurov: B and C send only named signatures as attachemnt

22:20:37 mircea_popescu: jurov oh yeah, i wasn't commenting on your implementation, i was just bitching at the stars.

22:20:38 jurov: i they approve the patch

22:20:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fixed count on bits << easy as a fart. start with the bits, then shuffle with rng transpositions.

22:21:06 mircea_popescu: ah that's a point.

22:21:21 mircea_popescu: cool.

22:21:59 mircea_popescu: ;;google list of mersenne primes

22:22:00 gribble: Mersenne prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_prime; Mersenne Primes: History, Theorems and Lists - The Prime Pages: http://primes.utm.edu/mersenne/; Integer Lists: Mersenne Primes - TSM Resources: http://www.tsm-resources.com/alists/mers.html

22:22:19 asciilifeform: (trivial example - 2^4 - 1 == 15.)

22:22:22 mircea_popescu: yeah google, always put wikipedia the fucking first line, because i'm sure that's what the "algorithm" says.

22:22:26 mircea_popescu: buncha inept frauds...

22:22:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 65537 is not a mersenne prime either. what did i step into ?

22:24:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fermat primes.

22:24:31 asciilifeform: iirc

22:25:41 asciilifeform: afaik 65537 is largest known fermat prime.

22:25:51 mircea_popescu: you telling me the rsa e must be a fermat prime ? why ?

22:26:00 asciilifeform: it doesn't need to be.

22:26:07 asciilifeform: but does need to be prime.

22:26:09 mircea_popescu: afaik it's only used because easy to compute, two 1's merged into a word

22:26:15 asciilifeform: yes, that is why used.

22:26:19 asciilifeform: easy with bitshifts

22:26:42 asciilifeform: hence the obligatory whinge about new silicon

22:26:55 mircea_popescu: eh fuck it, usgavin promised us 100% increases each year for the next 200 years

22:27:00 asciilifeform: ahaha.

22:27:02 mircea_popescu: or whatever was it. i intend to hold usg at his word.

22:27:18 mircea_popescu: but anyway, why's e have to be prime ?

22:27:23 asciilifeform: work it out

22:27:48 mircea_popescu: the idea is just for (q-1)(p-1) and e to be relatively prime

22:27:54 mircea_popescu: which isn't that hard to test

22:28:39 mircea_popescu: (and for that matter, it IS quite fucking possible for the current, fixed e implementation to spit out badly coded stuff every once in a blue moon, when the p q happen to be a multiple of 65537)

22:28:50 asciilifeform: the broom - fires once. yes.

22:29:00 mircea_popescu: well ?

22:29:22 mircea_popescu: "pick 32 onbit 64bit random numbers, test for cd" is a much better approach

22:29:47 asciilifeform: although - how on earth can pxq be a multiple of 65537 !?

22:29:55 asciilifeform: for prime p and q

22:30:08 asciilifeform: unless one or both are equal to it

22:30:30 mircea_popescu: i guess it can't be because -1

22:30:37 mircea_popescu: fuck. lmao. e just has to be... ODD

22:30:38 asciilifeform: aha.

22:30:41 mircea_popescu: not prime.

22:30:55 asciilifeform: as i said, let's grunt out what happens if composite.

22:30:59 mircea_popescu: stop trying to confuse me just because i have nfi of anything!

22:31:08 asciilifeform: loll

22:31:22 asciilifeform: out of such confusion, is everything born

22:31:25 asciilifeform: as mircea_popescu might say

22:31:36 mircea_popescu: oh i see, just the confusion tip is it.

22:32:33 asciilifeform: obligatory l33t w4r3z: https://notendur.hi.is/pgg/Handbook%20of%20Applied%20Cryptography.pdf

22:32:40 asciilifeform: (massive pdf turd)

22:32:46 jurov: rsa is only possible because we have probabilistic primality tests for bignums up to arbitrary certainty

22:32:46 mircea_popescu: anyway. p and q are primes. p-1 and p-1 being necessarily even, will probably have some factors. these factors could just as well be 65537

22:32:50 mircea_popescu: the odds are low but present.

22:33:23 mircea_popescu: p-1 and q-1*

22:33:34 asciilifeform: jurov: actually we have a deterministic primality test! with massive constant factor, but anyway.

22:33:45 asciilifeform: (deterministic in P!)

22:34:09 punkbot: Bundled 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/196PrJjL

22:34:10 assbot: Bundle 196PrJjL | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

22:34:52 mircea_popescu: o look, there's a M48. i had no idea.

22:35:15 mircea_popescu: 2^57,885,161 - 1

22:35:41 punkman: btw some bundles can't be turned into bitcoin keys, found out by accident

22:35:48 mircea_popescu: why is that ?

22:35:50 *: asciilifeform fondly remembers donating his first real multi-cpu rig's cycles to mersenne search

22:35:56 punkman: hash must be smaller than 0xfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffebaaedce6af48a03bbfd25e8cd0364141

22:36:26 mircea_popescu: ugh

22:36:35 mircea_popescu: shit.

22:36:51 jurov: just cut one bit from the hash

22:36:54 punkman: it's not a problem, just wait for next deed, hash changes

22:36:59 asciilifeform: or....

22:37:09 asciilifeform: define as hash(hash... 'by the neck until dead'

22:37:23 mircea_popescu: punkman ^ asciilifeform has it.

22:37:27 mircea_popescu: if too large, rehash.

22:37:32 mircea_popescu: it's how wol does it.

22:37:42 jurov: how did you generate such a collision?

22:37:45 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: re sig stack is the implication that a signs patch, b signs patch and a.sig, c patch and b.sig...

22:37:48 *: asciilifeform feels useful for a sec

22:38:18 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so ?

22:38:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: correct.

22:38:32 mircea_popescu: if you're not willing to sign the present signs you;'d better fork.

22:38:41 jurov: why?

22:38:41 asciilifeform: aha hence hashchain.

22:38:43 ben_vulpes: forgive my derpitude but why not simply sign the patch and collect sigs?

22:38:49 punkman: jurov, I manually entered 0xfff...f at some point, although address generation library would have caught it

22:38:53 jurov: can't they jsut sign independently?

22:38:58 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i have no idea, it could be done that way too

22:39:01 Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, fyi the link to the slides at http://www.di.ens.fr/~pnguyen/pub_BoJoNg00.htm i dead, such a shame

22:39:22 ben_vulpes: no stack to manage in that case; i'd prefer it if there are no obvious reasons to not.

22:39:31 asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: down side of collecting links - they die. aha

22:39:37 punkbot: Confirmed bundle 196PrJjLTjXNNGLZsyT4YYdhA2b2EQjbZ3 | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/b/196PrJjL

22:39:37 assbot: Bundle 196PrJjL | #bitcoin-assets deed registry

22:39:40 *: asciilifeform invited anyone who can turn up a live copy, to link

22:39:43 jurov: like, turdatron would reject the email "nope you're not on longest chain"? lmao

22:39:49 mircea_popescu: ^

22:39:54 mircea_popescu: BLOCKCHAIN ALL THE

22:39:55 mircea_popescu: things

22:40:01 asciilifeform: 'those who will not xxx are doomed to reinvent xxxx...'

22:40:02 ben_vulpes: simple is beautiful

22:40:22 punkman: also interesting is the address for 0x00, you can sent money to it but you can't spend it https://blockchain.info/address/1FYMZEHnszCHKTBdFZ2DLrUuk3dGwYKQxh

22:40:22 assbot: Bitcoin Address 1FYMZEHnszCHKTBdFZ2DLrUuk3dGwYKQxh

22:41:00 mod6: this punkbot is neat

22:43:02 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla but how is a single machine going to catch up when it falls behind ? never ? << the idea is to stop these persnickety machienes from validating the blockchain at all.

22:43:10 mircea_popescu: just take some magic bytes on trust and call it good.

22:43:43 asciilifeform: anyway, as far as i understand, the whole point of having actual arses in the driver's chair (ben_vulpes? mod6?) here is to merge patches and maintain the 'True chain'

22:43:51 ben_vulpes: 32MB is not the steady-state line, it's just the largest sanctioned p2p msg

22:44:04 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: i believe this excises all upnp mentions. my build hops on the network and downloads blocks. <<< yay wd.

22:44:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like that.

22:44:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: considering [blabla] you probably did not need to do the live-fire test. << stom motherfucking corrupting the youth!

22:44:56 asciilifeform: forkers - can build own turdatrons.

22:44:57 mircea_popescu: he did need to do the life-fire test.

22:44:58 mircea_popescu: twice.,

22:45:06 ben_vulpes: hang on a sec here

22:45:10 asciilifeform: !s dijkstra

22:45:11 assbot: 14 results for 'dijkstra' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=dijkstra

22:45:20 mircea_popescu: djenied.

22:45:29 ben_vulpes: lol no u

22:45:47 mircea_popescu: testing is the one thing bitcoin needs more of

22:45:49 mircea_popescu: hashing it has enough.

22:45:56 ben_vulpes: jurov's turdvendor's the canonical repository

22:46:02 ben_vulpes: there's known state a

22:46:06 ben_vulpes: and a record of patches signed by individuals

22:46:20 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu this is the thing you asked for in the first place: "sigs on lines"

22:46:26 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no.

22:46:32 mircea_popescu: the thing i asked for is to sign on READ lines.

22:46:40 asciilifeform: ^^^^^^

22:46:46 mircea_popescu: X submitted this, Y merged it, K L M N K and Q read and approve.

22:46:52 asciilifeform: aha ^

22:47:03 mircea_popescu: as opposed to the current X Y only so-called open source thing going on atm.

22:47:12 *: asciilifeform is happy that folks grasp exactly what he suggested on day1

22:47:17 mircea_popescu: the difference is huge, because when a bug like the numerous bugs in openssl/bash/etc pops up in the open

22:47:23 mircea_popescu: you wish to see whom you're hanging and why.

22:47:30 asciilifeform: !s shitgnomes

22:47:31 assbot: 12 results for 'shitgnomes' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=shitgnomes

22:47:38 mircea_popescu: was it an honest mistake ? was it a nsa sponsored shitjob ? etc.

22:48:04 kakobrekla: which you cant really tell if it was a good jo

22:48:05 kakobrekla: b

22:48:09 mircea_popescu: in short : it makes the cost of nsa covert ops in foss go from O(log(t)) all the way up to P,N

22:48:22 asciilifeform: which you cant really tell if it was a good << hence the original discussion of why 'the sapper errs once'

22:48:41 asciilifeform: the enemy's entire modus operandi is to always have 'honest mistake' alibi

22:48:48 mircea_popescu: exactly.

22:48:52 kakobrekla: no point in establishing "<mircea_popescu> was it an honest mistake"

22:49:01 asciilifeform: so we have serious business here, and all the belts and suspenders - actually matter.

22:49:02 mircea_popescu: that's pretty much the only thing. "we print money, and you can pretend you just fell on her while your pants were off"

22:49:25 kakobrekla: still not sure why anyone wants to sign anything heheh

22:49:31 kakobrekla: given the up and down side.

22:49:35 asciilifeform: (and, for the record, when i suggested to ben_vulpes that he did not need to live fire, it was because it was a removal of ifdefs that were switched off, which, if done correctly, would yield a bitwise-identical binary.)

22:49:44 mircea_popescu: i would like the difference between "dropped plate on my toe" and "fell on naked woman holding her heels while naked" to be obvious to the naked eye

22:49:55 ben_vulpes: so merges should only happen when k l m n o have already signed patch

22:49:55 mircea_popescu: and i want the record of accidental "dropped on my toe" events recorder permanently.

22:49:57 asciilifeform: ^^

22:50:12 mircea_popescu: between these two, the budged for recruiting pencildicks goes from constant to hilbert's hotel.

22:50:21 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes merges can happen at any point.

22:50:25 asciilifeform: tharwego.

22:50:37 asciilifeform: cooking with gas!

22:50:39 mircea_popescu: what users use, is what users use.

22:51:36 *: asciilifeform has an inescapably 'rectothermal' image of 'pencildick' in his mind

22:53:55 mircea_popescu: the entire "foss is better because read by millions of eyes" fetish needs to be put to rest already. opportunity does not equal actualisation.

22:54:09 mircea_popescu: my model will allow a specific list to be created. this was read in fact by 5468 people. these ones :

22:54:13 asciilifeform: millions'o'flies.

22:54:31 asciilifeform: >> codewot.

22:54:31 mircea_popescu: moreover, by putting the sexy back into reading code, it actually directly addresses the problem. currently people only read shit AFTER a bug was found.

22:55:07 *: asciilifeform confesses that he very frequently reads, with evil eyes, things in which nothing has of yet been found.

22:55:17 mircea_popescu: if you could also sign on it,

22:55:23 mircea_popescu: your signature will become in itself valuable,

22:55:39 mircea_popescu: and the people trying to hire you to review their code would crowd the shit out of the only buyer currently,

22:55:43 asciilifeform: sign ought not to be binary, however.

22:55:45 mircea_popescu: which is the usg diddle-ops arm.

22:55:58 asciilifeform: my 'i will die by this' sig is reserved exclusively for what i personally crapped out and ruminated over.

22:56:13 asciilifeform: could meet exceptions, but not yet met.

22:56:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it IS a way out of gravity well.

22:56:28 ben_vulpes: so i begin to wonder if i'm at all a good person to handle merges, given my lack of experience with cpp

22:57:11 *: asciilifeform would volunteer to take the place of poor ben_vulpes but is rather busy

22:57:34 ben_vulpes: i've been staring at it and it's not unintelligble -- horrible, but not unintelligible -- but given things like obfuscated c competition i don't think i'm actually a good technical choice for the role

22:57:35 asciilifeform: anyway handling merges as such - the physicalities of it - is not hard.

22:57:38 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: who else is going to handle making sure turd consistency stays constant?

22:57:48 asciilifeform: dusithavetobeme?

22:57:50 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: but how theoretically would i know what to merge?

22:57:52 thestringpuller: you are a masterful turd-smith

22:57:54 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes technical choice ? these are all political choices.

22:57:55 ben_vulpes: trust the l2?

22:58:03 asciilifeform: why not, say, mircea_popescu

22:58:14 ben_vulpes: choice for the technical role perhaps would be a better phrasing

22:58:27 *: asciilifeform would bite ze bullet & do it, for a small fee.

22:59:21 ben_vulpes: is the goal (eg political) to find some poor usian schmuck to take on hearn et al and risk full audit of all things, stopping and frisking by every passing police officer?

22:59:22 *: asciilifeform has pet that needs some attention, will be back.

22:59:40 mircea_popescu: uh

22:59:54 ben_vulpes: or political in the sense of 'forum'

23:00:03 mircea_popescu: no, the political goal is to allow people who are interested in doing things the right way at the levers where things are done the right way.

23:01:27 mircea_popescu: this may require particular grips, depending on how the lever happen to be constructed. the hands will adjust.

23:01:34 thestringpuller: it seems asciilifeform is the only one qualified to be a release manager

23:01:48 thestringpuller: unless there is a lever pulling training program

23:02:04 mircea_popescu: what is the internet, but a vast training program.

23:02:11 mircea_popescu: what, you though it's about the social media ?

23:02:25 thestringpuller: noise signal and all that garb

23:03:58 ben_vulpes: q: what is the output of a "merge" in this scenario?

23:06:47 ben_vulpes: new "commit" in public repo?

23:07:04 ben_vulpes: fresh set of signed blobs in *.org/releases?

23:07:52 ben_vulpes: these crickets suggest that the chairs must make this decision.

23:07:59 *: ben_vulpes mutters darkly

23:10:00 ben_vulpes: aight well fiat corp requires oiling before shuddering into motion in the morn. i'll continue this with anyone interested at a later point.

23:12:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00075658 = 1.7401 BTC [-]

23:29:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4691 @ 0.00075802 = 3.5559 BTC [+]

23:35:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8345 @ 0.00075784 = 6.3242 BTC [-]

23:41:41 *: asciilifeform back

23:42:52 asciilifeform: re: some poor usian schmuck to take on hearn et al and risk...

23:42:58 *: asciilifeform is deep behind enemy lines...

23:43:12 *: asciilifeform sings 'С чего начинается Родина' dourly

23:43:20 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8X7kHfMf3Q << for english folks

23:43:21 assbot: Mark Bernes - What Is The Beginning Of Motherland | " " - YouTube

23:45:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.00075817 = 3.7529 BTC [+] {2}

23:45:17 asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VobIRxoulLg << performed by putin

23:45:17 assbot: . " " - YouTube

23:49:42 asciilifeform: (originally sung by film hero, deep behind german lines)

23:52:12 *: xanthyos

23:52:51 *: kakobrekla

23:58:30 TheNewDeal: beautiful song ascii