Transcript for 28-03-2014, 2384 lines:
00:00:24 mike_c: i'm oddly fascinated. full list?
00:01:37 mike_c: 80 lines a day, not bad benkay.
00:03:31 dexX7: haha awesome and kinda unexpected
00:03:59 mike_c: 400 lines a day, plus fraudsters. and people think he has sock puppets too. more likely there are 3 people typing as mp :)
00:04:29 kakobrekla: this is last 30 days
00:04:51 mike_c: aww, not even top 20.
00:05:47 mike_c: who knew ascii talked so much?
00:05:49 joecool: lawl
00:07:24 pankkake: mp copies and pastes a lot
00:12:56 tg2: can has entropy
00:18:32 Apocalyptic: tg2, wait
00:18:42 Apocalyptic: you're using /dev/urandom as a source of entropy ?
00:19:03 Apocalyptic: given /dev/urandom is already using /dev/random as one
00:19:28 pankkake: rngd feeds /dev/random with /dev/urandom basically
00:19:35 tg2: Rngd uses more entropy points
00:19:43 Apocalyptic: am I the only one who finds that utterly wrong ?
00:19:51 Apocalyptic: it's like an entropy feedback loop
00:19:56 tg2: And fills it into urandom
00:20:02 Apocalyptic: The -r or --rng-device options can be used to select an alternate source of input
00:20:05 pankkake: it's not that simple but yes you really should use better sources
00:20:13 tg2: ofc
00:20:17 Apocalyptic: <tg2> Rngd uses more entropy points // not in your case
00:20:21 pankkake: try haveged as I said earlier
00:21:14 tg2: Pankkake thx I'll check it out
00:21:20 kakobrekla: mike_c you get top10 on some days :)
00:21:50 ozbot: pisg - Perl IRC Statistics Generator :: Home
00:22:07 mike_c: slow and steady gets you somewhere hopefully
00:22:47 kakobrekla: pankkake but my logs are nonstandard
00:23:04 kakobrekla: i would have to fiddle with it anyway.
00:24:05 tg2: Probably trivial to build a definition
00:24:28 pankkake: the lazyest version would probably be to output the logs to a recognized format
00:41:08 ozbot: Researches find Android apps that covertly mine Dogecoin, one of them with more than a million downl
00:41:17 tg2: :)
00:41:54 benkay: what, asciilifeform generates more -assets lines than me?
00:41:55 benkay: psh.
00:42:08 benkay: ninjashogun lol
00:48:29 tg2: Not even using gpus, what is this amateur hour?
00:56:24 MisterE: morning
00:56:31 MisterE: BTC in the shitter, LTC on the operating table but it;s spring in Crimea :)
00:56:49 pankkake: meanwhile ATC up 50%
00:56:57 MisterE: lol realy
00:57:06 MisterE: wow
00:57:13 MisterE: much profits
00:58:07 Apocalyptic: dat ATC pump
00:58:34 moiety: lolol kakobrekla mine isn't as bad as i thought it would be in that lines list XD
00:59:09 kakobrekla: yea not bad
00:59:30 moiety: asciilifeform: did you see MOTD? someone on reddit did it after i posted to photoshopbattles lol
00:59:42 MisterE: " Russian Bear Rising - After swallowing Crimea, Putin’s emboldened regime looks for more prey "
01:00:01 MisterE: ^ wow, such FUD
01:01:33 Apocalyptic: MisterE, what's that headline ?
01:01:44 MisterE: yea
01:01:49 ozbot: front lines: Russian Bear Rising - After swallowing Crimea, Putin’s emboldened regime looks for mo
01:02:00 davout: !t m x.eur
01:14:50 tg2: Ikea commercial
01:17:13 Apocalyptic: moiety, $100 reward ? seriously ?
01:18:37 moiety: Apocalyptic: sounds even wors here >> £54.16 lol
01:19:34 moiety: it will be a shopping list in hoax form
01:37:32 ozbot: Very angry kitty at the Zoo. - YouTube
02:01:25 MisterE: those the lions they killed?
02:01:36 MisterE: that zoo should rename itself The Butchery
02:01:51 MisterE: srsly though they were following good practice
02:02:03 MisterE: just americans hide that stuff behind closed doors
02:03:49 PANIC_SELL_NOW: price dropping like a rock, bitcoin banned in china
02:04:07 copumpkin: FUD-spreader
02:04:37 PANIC_SELL_NOW: no point in denying the truth, bitcoin is banned in china, the chinese brought us from $250 to $1000. and we'll go right back down to $250
02:06:54 MisterE: not even legit FUD
02:07:49 ozbot: Bitcoin Prices Plunge on Report PBOC Orders Accounts Shut - Bloomberg
02:07:50 Apocalyptic: $250 is fine for me
02:08:43 MisterE: at 250 I'll take cash from the CCs
02:08:45 MisterE: to buy in
02:11:50 noCHINA: did MPEX ever end up giving the SEC satoshidice info?
02:12:16 tg2: Not likely
02:12:45 BingoBoingo: No
02:13:30 tg2: We're the investors in satdice even linked to anything materially? Wasn't it all crypto?
02:13:31 Duffer1: there may be an ongoing discussion we're not aware of though
02:13:33 noCHINA: back under $500.... down we go
02:13:37 benkay: webchat lol
02:13:45 benkay: who are you, noCHINA ?
02:14:05 tg2: Gpg up heathen
02:14:08 noCHINA: no CHINA allowed.
02:14:09 Duffer1: tg2 i believe they're just interested in vorhees, not necessarily investors
02:14:12 noCHINA: no bitcoin in CHINA allowed
02:14:24 Apocalyptic: cool story bro
02:14:49 noCHINA: i lost 50 BTC today on bitfinex because of china. so no china allowed from now on
02:15:05 Apocalyptic: bitfinex is scam, you know that
02:15:07 tg2: 0x31FAA963C3333333.sec.gpg
02:15:07 kakobrekla: who the fuck are all these kids
02:15:26 tg2: Can you migrate wot identity to a new key if you sign it with the old?
02:15:42 Apocalyptic: tg2, you can
02:15:53 Duffer1: just set a new key ya
02:15:56 benkay: tg2: for a technical dude you sure don't in2 research
02:16:13 tg2: Yah cause I built wot
02:16:22 tg2: I'm a big proponent you know
02:16:34 benkay: kinda irrelevant
02:16:34 tg2: Check my rating
02:17:05 Mats_cd03: have you two been trolling each other for hours
02:17:28 tg2: No I was actually working today
02:17:40 benkay: ditto
02:17:54 MisterE: tg2: you're never going to register with gpg and you know it :p
02:17:55 Duffer1: ;;gpg info tg2
02:18:01 MisterE: whoa
02:18:19 *: MisterE stands corrected
02:18:21 benkay: anyone running a pool on how long it takes tg2 to get rated by someone we know?
02:18:35 tg2: Put it on bitbet
02:18:42 tg2: I'll bet against it
02:18:42 benkay: badbet doesn't work
02:19:37 benkay: mpoe over 90k all of a sudden
02:19:45 benkay: ;;ticker
02:19:50 benkay: funny how that works
02:20:11 Duffer1: are options trading again?
02:21:06 tg2: Dem fireworks
02:21:19 tg2: one fud article about China
02:21:27 tg2: btc on sale
02:21:38 Duffer1: ;;gpg eauth Duffer1
02:22:30 Duffer1: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:ff6180ec615df6b5ca3a3db746b31eab308de699c0a301f6b3bf22ef
02:22:49 Duffer1: "This user has not authenticated for more than 104 days. If you are currently talking to someone who claims to be this person, you are probably talking to an impostor and scammer." hehe
02:26:12 tg2: I rekon I could get a key id with 10 characters the same
02:33:16 ozbot: BBC News - Wal-Mart sues Visa for fixing price of credit card fees
02:33:44 Duffer1: i don't see why they even need to sue
02:34:17 Duffer1: they could simply stop accepting visa
02:35:51 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 because they want to make money.
02:37:06 MisterE: not accepting visa would be a death sentence for most retailers
02:37:14 MisterE: its what enables debit cards to work
02:37:21 MisterE: for those without credit
02:37:27 mircea_popescu: not so.
02:37:36 mircea_popescu: ae worked on exclusive deals with many retailers for ages.
02:37:48 mircea_popescu: mc tried something similar with much less success about once a decade since the 80s
02:37:59 kakobrekla: anyway, for now
02:38:06 kakobrekla: this is what you get.
02:38:39 kakobrekla: nothing shocking
02:39:47 MisterE: but if you dont have a credit card and only a bank account with a debit card the visa system is what allows you to use it to make purchases
02:39:56 MisterE: and thats how 90% of America shops
02:40:02 MisterE: that or credit
02:40:48 ozbot: The Fierce Battle for the Soul of Bitcoin | Wired Enterprise | Wired.com
02:41:31 asciilifeform: with obligatory 3d coins.
02:41:56 mircea_popescu: MisterE perhaps 90% of statistics are made up on the spot.
02:42:11 ozbot: Get ready to have your biometrics tracked 24/7 (Wired UK)
02:42:40 MisterE: maybe that was but it's the vast majority
02:42:48 MisterE: everyone shops int he US with plastic
02:44:11 mircea_popescu: plastic != visa electron prepaid "i'm poor" cards.
02:44:32 MisterE: these aren't prepaid electron cards
02:44:43 MisterE: these are bank issued debit cards with the visa logo
02:45:00 MisterE: that makes them able to be used for purchases at most major retailers
02:45:17 mircea_popescu: o look at that, wired article about "the soul of bitcoin", in terms of "two schmucks no one heard of or cares about"
02:46:11 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 you gonna apply for that eurasia job ? :D
02:46:16 MisterE: also it is your bank ATM card
02:46:48 MisterE: don't you have an equivalent in Europe?
02:47:28 MisterE: hell even backwards Thailand has it
02:47:57 mircea_popescu: _aeon loud who ?
02:48:58 mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre subkeys you generate off a main key aren't more anonymous than the main key.
02:53:18 MisterE: use of credit and debit cards, that use the visa network, for shopping is prolific in the US and any retailer who didn't accept them would be suicide. <- Are you arguing against that statement mircea_popescu ?
02:53:30 mircea_popescu: yes.
02:53:37 MisterE: on what basis?
02:53:49 mircea_popescu: i'm even arguing against your counting ability, that's about five statements right there.
02:53:50 chetty: MisterE, people just dont use plastic much here
02:54:12 MisterE: where is here? I'm talking about the US
02:54:26 MisterE: here in Thailand it's much less as well.
02:54:33 ozbot: Why Don't More Small Businesses Accept Credit Cards - Forbes
02:54:38 noCHINA: orderbook thinning out... 1000 BTC moves price $40 now
02:54:39 Duffer1: what would happen to retailers if the debit card ceased to exist?
02:54:42 mircea_popescu: "Credit and debit cards are nearly as common as cash. "
02:54:49 mircea_popescu: nearly as common means, of course, NOT AS COMMON.
02:54:59 mircea_popescu: "But data from Intuit shows that 55 percent of the nation?s 27 million small businesses do not accept credit cards."
02:55:07 mircea_popescu: 55% means, of course, a majority.
02:55:13 MisterE: we're not talkign about small retailers / mom & pop restaurants
02:55:14 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
02:55:15 mircea_popescu: and credit cards does not mean "visa"
02:55:23 BingoBoingo: ;;more
02:55:24 MisterE: wallmart was the example
02:55:28 noCHINA: Visa should just drop teh minimum per-swipe charge and go straight %. they'd make more
02:55:28 mircea_popescu: credit cards means american express, visa and mastercard, in that order.
02:55:37 noCHINA: walmart suing VISA for $5 billion
02:55:38 mircea_popescu: of which total visa is maybe 20%
02:55:39 MisterE: yes at mom & pop stores where you spend $10 you pay cash
02:55:49 asciilifeform: 'debit' card, at least the u.s. variety, has considerably weaker legal fraud protections than the 'credit' card.
02:55:50 MisterE: when you go to a supermarket and stock up for the week you use a card
02:56:14 mircea_popescu: MisterE unless you're one of the govt poor using the govt's own plastic, which is neither visa nor mc etc.
02:56:29 mircea_popescu: so in general : i understand you're living your own life. you'll have to understand your own life is irrelevant.
02:56:39 mircea_popescu: the market is a larger thing.
02:57:18 MisterE: you're making assumptions that I;m extrapolating what I do to others
02:57:36 mircea_popescu: "<MisterE> we're not talkign about small retailers" / "<MisterE> and any retailer who didn't accept them would be suicide"
02:57:41 MisterE: I've lived out of the US for 8-years but even before I left cash usage at large retailers was hard to find
02:57:46 mircea_popescu: no, i'm just telling you you're being an idiot.
02:57:55 mircea_popescu: stop it, read what you're saying before i do.
02:58:04 asciilifeform: might be a geographic thing
02:58:09 MisterE: yes any large retailer who told you you can't pay your $100 bull with plastic would be done
02:58:21 mircea_popescu: and you know this on the basis of because what.
02:58:48 MisterE: because of personal experience, obbviously you have nbot spent much time shopping in rural america at the likes of WlaMart and safeway
02:58:51 mircea_popescu: right.
02:58:59 mircea_popescu: the place for this sort of nonsense is reddit.
02:59:39 MisterE: I'm not sure if your forbes includes debit cards
02:59:54 MisterE: ok it does
03:01:16 mircea_popescu: noCHINA yeah was a link earlier.
03:03:24 MisterE: I have to admit I'm *very* surprised by the stats in the forbes article
03:05:03 mircea_popescu: they're not even right, they overstate plastic acceptance.
03:06:25 noCHINA: just when you thought bad news was finished for bitcoin -- there is more
03:06:42 noCHINA: china ban, then gox crash, then china ban #2, then IRS,
03:06:50 noCHINA: its like the good news doesn't factor in at all
03:07:03 TestingUnoDosTre: it's like bad news doesn't factor at all
03:07:14 TestingUnoDosTre: and it's more like someone who wanted/needed to get rid of coins
03:07:43 TestingUnoDosTre: seriously. China ban news was released, and bitcoin held at 580
03:07:44 MisterE: yea this last dump, if you can even call it that, was manipulation for sure
03:08:03 noCHINA: TestingUnoDosTre: 50,000 BTC sold today-- thats on china news
03:08:07 noCHINA: its not a co-incidence
03:08:11 TestingUnoDosTre: that's baloney
03:08:47 tg2: That's convenient that 50k were sold and none bought :')
03:08:48 BingoBoingo: Why is a Canadian so worried about China anyways
03:10:33 TestingUnoDosTre: I don't care how many btc were sold today. China news was basically the same shit that was said before, and it was released like 12 hours or more before the MINI crash
03:10:41 MisterE: still MP that is 55% of small businesses. when I said not taking visa would be a death sentence I was talking about large retailers like Walmart or Safeway. I'm sure CC acceptance and usage is much higher there and it would be a death sentence for them.
03:11:24 noCHINA: there is no such thing as 'manipulation' -- there are only bids and asks ... they're either filled or not
03:11:40 MisterE: I cant google up just what % of purchases at large retailers are made with cc
03:13:42 TestingUnoDosTre: I never said manipulation. I agree with your statement. Where I disagree is when you claimed that this had to do with some news that was released.
03:14:39 mircea_popescu: noCHINA it's rare that news actually has any sort of impact on bitcoin prices. people generally like to see patters, but i've seen hundreds of such claims and they were never right.
03:15:09 noCHINA: patterns are nonsense -- its individual whales who move markets, not some lines on a chart
03:15:29 MisterE: they might have leaked a rumor before starting to dump
03:15:40 noCHINA: TestingUnoDosTre: large whales who want to cash out see 'bad china news' and decide to do it quickly
03:15:54 MisterE: then pulled back to scoop up after a drop, thats manipulation
03:16:04 mircea_popescu: MisterE if any large retailer decides to stop taking a card it's more like a death sentence to the card than to the retailer.
03:16:16 kow: what kind of whales, like blue whales?
03:16:16 mircea_popescu: people won't drive an extra gallon of gas just to use random plasic bit X
03:16:20 kow: or fin whales?
03:16:27 TestingUnoDosTre: lol
03:16:29 noCHINA: no its not -- thats just the free market operating... its up to the stupid public to decide if a rumor is real or not before panic selling
03:16:35 kow: the humpback whale
03:16:44 TestingUnoDosTre: I've been buying all day, and loved it
03:16:57 TestingUnoDosTre: hope it crashes again tomorrow
03:16:59 noCHINA: if insider trading was legal we'd have much more transparent markets
03:17:09 noCHINA: prices would reflect true value at all times
03:17:12 TestingUnoDosTre: don't quote me on that
03:18:42 TestingUnoDosTre: what ridiculousness
03:18:51 TestingUnoDosTre: what type of insider trading do you think occurred
03:20:33 TestingUnoDosTre: squeeze bacon and lovable dogs? wtf
03:29:04 ozbot: 76ers Lose 26 Straight Games, Are Impressively Dedicated To Sucking
03:29:04 noCHINA: is that squeeze bacon shit real?
03:29:47 noCHINA: looks insanely awesome in a not awesome way
03:33:44 moiety: BingoBoingo: that one (youtube link) just totally wanted to rip the camera person's face off didnt it?! i think they are known to scalp people
03:33:53 BingoBoingo: Yeah
03:34:16 moiety: i thought i sensed cute, that gif is epic mircea_popescu
03:34:32 mircea_popescu: :D
03:35:42 moiety: the dogs head is begger than the whole pup!
03:35:46 moiety: bigger*
03:35:58 MisterE: yea nothing irregular about it
03:36:27 moiety: its awful D:
03:37:02 moiety: i have an animal realted story i cant read because im too scraed to scroll, is there an add on that removes pics? like adblock/flashblock?
03:37:34 moiety: lets try that again shall we? : i have an animal related story i cant read because im too scared to scroll, is there an add on that removes pics? like adblock/flashblock?
03:40:29 ozbot: Family claims hacker taking control of cable box, sending threats | Fox 59 News – fox59.com
03:40:43 MisterE: well we're breeding animals in captivity better now so have "surplus"
03:52:58 mircea_popescu: the20year3 businesses where the big barrier to entry is capital actually are very poor businesses (in that surpluss capacity can be and usually is created on the spot - or in other words, because they have no moats). buffett expounds on this in his 1983 letter if memory serves.
03:53:43 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid what start-ups specifically.
03:54:19 mircea_popescu: uh i c.
03:55:43 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay lmao nice find.
04:02:50 mircea_popescu: the20year3 so if the claim is that rent is trading under book, why not buy back shares ? and moreover, is the book value reported anywhere in any sense ?
04:05:41 xdotcomm_: mircea_popescu: i thought it was comporable to irc-bot
04:05:45 mircea_popescu: the20year3 this "enough of our shareholders complain" tack is bollocks. i complain, and i'll have your head for it, plain and simple.
04:06:37 kakobrekla: lets see who gets tired first
04:06:38 mircea_popescu: xdotcomm_ how can it be comparable tho ? i mean... gribble actually ads functionality.
04:06:47 mircea_popescu: separating a website in two websites doesn't really.
04:07:10 kakobrekla: ah i forgot to mention MP re outspamming
04:07:20 mircea_popescu: cazalla that's actually an excellent q, hope you get some answer.
04:07:27 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla waitwut ?
04:07:39 kakobrekla: yeah.
04:08:15 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's about the sentiment I've been coming to have about my plot coupons.
04:08:27 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo thought you'd appreciate that.
04:09:09 kakobrekla: you have beaten assbot per last 7 days and per last 30 days mirea.
04:09:14 mircea_popescu: deadweasel: why would anybody consult the public? << maybe the public is topless and looks good on its back ?
04:09:23 kakobrekla: mircea.
04:09:25 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla haha! do a 2013 one ?
04:09:26 kakobrekla: goddamn kebroad.
04:09:31 mircea_popescu: lmao que broad!
04:09:58 kakobrekla: maybe, now its rolling 12 months
04:10:12 kakobrekla: i dont have that much history or smth
04:11:22 mircea_popescu: o yeah, got started in april huh
04:11:45 kakobrekla: im getting outtyped
04:12:02 kakobrekla: number 5 on 12 month, number 9 on 30 days and 24 on weekly
04:12:19 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2014#587452 he managed to put an empty string in
04:12:32 kakobrekla: that bastard
04:13:24 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu but it was an empty line
04:13:32 BingoBoingo: Is this still an issue...
04:13:39 mircea_popescu: his client sucks ? i can't send empty lines
04:13:57 mircea_popescu: i didn't even know irc allowed empty lines.
04:14:29 BingoBoingo: Oh, ellipses don't hide text in the logs that come out of assbot no more
04:14:35 kakobrekla: now stop busting my balls and go fix your css
04:14:50 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves that's funny, because 99.999% of published researchers live off grants given by the people who want global warming to be a rthing.
04:15:14 mircea_popescu: my css is fine in that it doesn't exist.
04:15:24 kakobrekla: yes its possible to send empty lines but my altgr on mah keyboard is broken
04:15:36 kakobrekla: que broad i mean
04:16:00 mircea_popescu: aok
04:16:06 mircea_popescu: $ticker h neobee
04:16:13 mircea_popescu: !ticker h neobee
04:16:57 mircea_popescu: i guess the 25 people gave up too.
04:17:21 mircea_popescu: llticker
04:17:25 mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
04:17:35 mircea_popescu: wait wasn't it supposed to have dumped etc.
04:17:47 mircea_popescu: these logs i'm reading are delayed or something ;/
04:18:50 mircea_popescu: whoa look at that! i wrote more this past month than the next 4 people bombined ?!
04:19:06 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla pls to redirect b-a donations address to fraudsters kthx
04:19:19 lnovy: c-c-c-c-ombo breaker
04:19:28 VanCleef: neobee got hammered
04:19:47 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu no can do, hackers control donations
04:19:48 mircea_popescu: mike_c there's only me posting as me. however, there's multiple people working on feeding me data and other predigested strings.
04:20:07 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lol good one.
04:20:59 mircea_popescu: mike_c oldest trick in the book, every talking head on the tv screen has a little speaker in his ear thing. course, my backup is slightly better than what tv stations can afford, but still.
04:26:31 mircea_popescu: o look, 200 lines in the past coupla hours. poor people trying to read the chan.
04:42:21 ozbot: Want to edit the wiki without paying a fee? Read this.
04:53:50 Mats_cd03: meow
04:56:06 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: RE your next mention of Chicago http://deadspin.com/chicago-sports-radio-host-shits-in-the-studio-flees-th-1553315358
04:59:31 mircea_popescu: lol
05:01:49 TestingUnoDosTre: o shit we are back on global warming
05:02:02 copumpkin: I turned the heat up again
05:08:40 kakobrekla: :)
05:41:00 ozbot: LeoGroup Orchestrates Purchase of Stradivarius Violin Using Bitcoin - Press Release - Digital Journa
05:41:21 bitcoinpete: trading art for art, eh mircea_popescu?
05:47:04 BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: if it were one of the Violas, that would be real news
05:48:56 bitcoinpete: i'm still glad to see people with coin shelling out for legit shit
05:49:33 bitcoinpete: bitcoins are better spent on one-of-a-kind art than electronics from tigerdirect
05:49:47 drkow: tigerdirect is a shit store
05:49:50 bitcoinpete: if they must be spent
05:49:55 VanCleef: i hope my bitbet gets approved
05:49:56 bitcoinpete: they're a store
05:50:29 drkow: their bitcoin system isn't working in Canada
05:50:40 VanCleef: if you make a new bet and send funds to fund the bet but it doesn't get approved will you get your coin back?
05:50:52 drkow: I have been getting great value out of my bitcoins by purchasing (probably carded) gift cards
05:51:07 bitcoinpete: drkow where in canada are you?
05:51:20 drkow: east
05:51:35 bitcoinpete: cool
05:52:36 bitcoinpete: drkow assette nubbins' is also east
05:52:56 drkow: wat
05:54:05 bitcoinpete: another guy here is from the maritimes
05:54:27 drkow: oh I'm between toronto/montreal
05:55:30 drkow: canada is lame
05:55:35 drkow: it's too damn cold
05:55:53 bitcoinpete: you ever lived anywhere else? or traveled much at all?
05:56:00 drkow: yeah
05:56:55 drkow: that's why I hate canada
05:57:29 bitcoinpete: well, you know where the door is
06:02:13 ozbot: Oleg Andreev - A million-dollar problem for Bitcoin exchanges
06:02:33 bitcoinpete: my reply: https://twitter.com/bitcoinpete/status/449328380463165440
06:28:42 bitcoinpete: ;;later tell benkay it's friday here!
06:29:05 bitcoinpete: ;;later tell artifexd it's friiiidaaay!
07:19:12 cazalla: i enjoy your articles bitcoinpete, easier read than fraudsters (for me)
07:20:14 cazalla: ah, he isn't here, i guess i shouldn't assume everyone uses a bouncer
07:27:48 bocobit: i read a study that says only 20% of people are capable of independent thought
07:28:40 bocobit: which makes you think, am i part of that 20%
07:29:21 bocobit: and what constitutes independent thought, what are the parameters
07:32:44 bocobit: or maybe even more powerful, what makes the 80%
08:07:03 chetty: bocobit, got a link to that study?
09:29:29 jurov: bitcoinpete that oleganza's blog is theoretically nice
09:29:53 jurov: but in practice having locked bitcoins in 2-of-2 sig scheme would hurt liquidity
09:31:41 jurov: such as, traders can claim "no i dispute this trade, wont sign" when market moves unfavorably
09:33:10 jurov: and there's where comaprison with NYSE falls short, NYSE can get to court (in worst case) to force misbehaving traders in the line
09:35:15 jurov: oh i overlooked the tweet
09:38:55 MisterE: lol whole lot of butthurt: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg3668730#msg3668730
09:44:47 VanCleef: poor guy should just refund him
09:44:55 MisterE: haha
09:47:15 VanCleef: what if u bet on a bet you made but it doesn't get approved
09:47:19 VanCleef: do you guys your coins back?
09:47:22 VanCleef: get*
09:49:16 cazalla: it'll be refunded
09:52:18 VanCleef: neat
09:55:25 chetty: that argument has been going on forever, a good example of the failure of personal responsibility
09:56:50 MisterE: this is the kind of people that nanny states produce
09:57:07 MisterE: states run by fscking insurance adjustors who have politicians in their pockets
10:02:09 MisterE: The asshattery with this forum is strong!
10:02:38 MisterE: never really read bitcointalk, learned from bloggers and trusted articles or reading / asking questions on irc.
10:03:08 chetty: MisterE, most public forums are about the same
10:03:09 MisterE: but kakobrekla does come down on em like a ton of bricks lol
10:17:52 MisterE: lots of blood on the floor over on BTCe lol
10:19:26 MisterE: coins nice and cheap
10:45:55 blackwhite: morning
11:55:12 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bitcoinpete what's that about ?
11:55:42 mircea_popescu: VanCleef yes you do get it back.
11:55:57 VanCleef: cool thanks
11:57:24 mircea_popescu: bocobit i read a study that 80% of studies are pure bullshit.
13:14:08 artifexd: ;;eauth artifexd
13:14:26 artifexd: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:fe0d9a7006ac40048c49ae0e278f7f52c229fdb8b8b55499e7264c31
13:14:52 artifexd: ;;rate bitcoinpete 1 Did exactly what he said he would do without delay
13:21:15 artifexd: ThickAsThieves Have you heard from Danny lately? Is he ok?
13:31:35 ozbot: Looking for investment of ~2500 BTC for music festival, return = ~150,000 BTC
13:31:40 Duffer1: haven't seen a scam like that before
13:34:28 Duffer1: "In 1.5 months of marketing we grew our Facebook page to 9,500 likes with an average unboosted reach of 2,300 people per post"
13:37:42 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: hi
13:38:29 CheckDavid: 3:53:57 AM mircea_popescu CheckDavid what start-ups specifically. <- you mean to ask which startup specifically I was considering fundraising for?
13:49:57 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid yeah but meanwhile my q was answered reading the log.
13:50:09 mircea_popescu: listen, the larger part of raising funds is the trust you command.
13:50:26 ozbot: La firma pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
13:54:30 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: yes correct. But then one also needs a framework/platform to market my trust
13:54:50 CheckDavid: If that made sense
13:54:54 mircea_popescu: that'd be the wot, this channel and so forth.
13:55:28 CheckDavid: I see. But also a model on what to give in return for funding
13:55:42 CheckDavid: Be it equity or something else
13:56:06 mircea_popescu: it'd be equity.
13:56:19 mircea_popescu: this is a long solved problem, really.
13:56:21 Duffer1: you don't necessarily need a platform for that, unless you wanted your investors to be able to exchange quickly
13:56:32 CheckDavid: Someone made me consist ways to fund without equity dilution
13:56:48 CheckDavid: *consider
13:57:55 CheckDavid: Crowd funding is one way people have used to fund without equity distribution
13:59:21 Duffer1: do you have a product capable of attracting that kind of funding?
13:59:27 mircea_popescu: that's in no way related to funding.
13:59:44 mircea_popescu: there's business and then there's nonsense. i'm sure some kids somewhere are playing with money, but that has no bearing on business.
14:01:13 CheckDavid: I see. So your take is that equity must be allocated to the investors right?
14:01:20 mircea_popescu: yes.
14:01:36 CheckDavid: Duffer1: no. Not yet at least
14:01:44 chetty: Crossword puzzles in a local Venezuelan newspaper are calling readers to violent protests with conspiratorial messages, the country?s information minister said today.
14:01:49 mircea_popescu: you can either take investment, which is a distribution of equity no matter how you disgusie it, from bfl-style to any other style,
14:01:58 mircea_popescu: or else you can take a loan, which is a loan.
14:01:59 mircea_popescu: that's it.
14:02:57 CheckDavid: Can this loan depend on the business performance alone?
14:03:21 CheckDavid: Or would it have to be a personal loan in some way as well?
14:06:07 mircea_popescu: no. a loan has no relation to the business performance, a loan is predicated on the credibility of the underwriter.
14:06:13 mircea_popescu: equity is related to the business performance.
14:09:50 CheckDavid: I see.
14:10:41 CheckDavid: You are a very traditional business guy.
14:10:59 CheckDavid: You are the Warren Buffett of btc lol
14:11:59 mircea_popescu: you know, gravity didn't change direction since it was invented.
14:12:17 mircea_popescu: even if female dress and hairdo changed significnatly, and quite cyclically.
14:12:19 mircea_popescu: some things never change.
14:12:48 mircea_popescu: her tits will always point downwards on the long run, no matter what she wears.
14:13:24 CheckDavid: Do you intend to say one should always short women?
14:13:43 CheckDavid: I very much appreciate the stock tip kind sir
14:14:05 pankkake: !b 6
14:15:42 pankkake: lessons learned: SATA is shit, NCQ is shit, XFS is shit, GPU fans are shit
14:15:48 pankkake: …but I should finally be back
14:17:05 mircea_popescu: wb!
14:17:32 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: can u give me a car pliz? And a 3d printer tnx
14:17:49 pankkake: just print your car
14:17:58 CheckDavid: Haha
14:22:46 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu benkay and artifexd were generous enough to lend me a few satoshis a week ago, which i duly repaid with interest today so as to learn that variety speak :D
14:22:56 bitcoinpete: artifexd ty!
14:23:04 artifexd: np
14:23:38 bitcoinpete: artifexd noob question: do i rate you as well?
14:24:07 artifexd: That is up to you.
14:24:10 Duffer1: you can rate anyone for anything
14:32:57 bitcoinpete: Chamath is spot on here: "We’ve got to flush out all the has-beens and also-rans. There’s a bunch of amateur hour bullshit in the bitcoin ecosystem.”
14:36:20 Mats_cd03: hi QTs
14:36:55 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-bezzle-usd-and-the-tide-usd/
14:36:55 ozbot: The bezzle-USD and the tide-USD pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
14:37:23 mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete whats not clear is who chamath is and why does he get to say this.
14:37:41 Mats_cd03: CheckDavid: have you considered enrolling in an intro accounting course? i think it would benefit you
14:38:30 Mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: good timing, i just finished brewing coffee
14:38:36 mircea_popescu: hehe yw.
14:39:17 Dimsler_: the problem with ukraine
14:39:27 Dimsler_: is that its not a real country
14:39:33 Dimsler_: i do not understand why anyone cares
14:39:41 Mats_cd03: because youre a shit reader
14:39:48 Mats_cd03: do you know what a warm water port is?
14:40:02 mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete talking about "bunch of amateur hour buyllshit in the bitcoin """ecosystem"""" in a pdf file ?
14:40:05 mircea_popescu: surely you see the humor.
14:40:25 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 that explains why the russians care, which was quite clear.
14:40:36 mircea_popescu: course we know why exactly the us cares too, at that level.
14:40:41 Dimsler_: the belonged to russians
14:40:43 Dimsler_: in the first place
14:40:48 mircea_popescu: so did alaska.
14:40:51 Mats_cd03: only nominally
14:40:54 Dimsler_: just like 1/2 belong to poland
14:41:05 Dimsler_: wtf do you mean nominally
14:41:06 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu i sequenced those poorly, first was a document by taleb & co., second was a random quote
14:41:09 Dimsler_: go pick up a fuckign history book
14:41:24 mircea_popescu: oh. i wish taleb embraced sanity ;/
14:41:49 Dimsler_: live in a box die in a box
14:41:52 mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete anyway, if you know the chap, perhaps drop him a link. as usual, the clearing of bs starts with teh self.
14:42:05 mircea_popescu: Dimsler_ why are you so aggro anyway
14:42:26 Dimsler_: because its the same bs on the news like always
14:42:30 Dimsler_: the american world police
14:42:42 Dimsler_: making a big deal about ukraine
14:43:01 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu i only know him by reputation, such as it is. yes, some vetting is in order
14:43:21 Mats_cd03: crimea was an autonomous republic, not a sovereign territory with its own government
14:43:32 Dimsler_: shutup with that nonsense
14:43:45 Mats_cd03: its the functional equivalent of macao, singapore, taiwan, hong kong, or scotland deciding, lets organize militias and be rowdy
14:43:51 Dimsler_: using your bs coin terms sovereignity
14:43:52 Dimsler_: yeah right
14:43:53 Dimsler_: lol
14:43:57 Dimsler_: "republic"
14:44:02 kakobrekla: >@teddy @Xapo we've entrusted them with a shit-ton of BTC...so have other big institutional funds...its a good sign.
14:44:05 kakobrekla: yeah.
14:44:10 Mats_cd03: sovereignty as its used in international law, yes
14:44:15 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 wasn't it a khanate originally ? that's EXACTLY what they did.
14:44:31 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla who this ?
14:44:35 Mats_cd03: and they've been properly slapped down
14:44:47 Mats_cd03: because poor people with firearms always ends up well
14:44:57 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 on a long enough timeline everyone's getting slapped down properly.
14:45:19 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu / bitcoinpete http://twitter.com/chamath/status/445368482306064384
14:45:39 Dimsler_: ukraine should be hacked up
14:45:40 Dimsler_: into pieces
14:45:45 Dimsler_: like the russians suggested
14:45:48 Dimsler_: plain and simple
14:45:58 Dimsler_: half that territory was polish
14:46:13 Dimsler_: the kosack was a fucking nomad
14:46:15 Dimsler_: he didn't care
14:46:39 bitcoinpete: kakobrekla mircea_popescu oof. dunce cappery
14:46:48 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/449558141525827584
14:47:10 bitcoinpete: irllol
14:47:16 kakobrekla: heh
14:47:40 bitcoinpete: that's good shit
14:47:58 Mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: i think the latest post would be better with a link for the tide reference, e.g. http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/
14:47:58 mircea_popescu: i suppose we'll see another anil dash-esque butthurt explosion followed by trying to date me
14:48:03 mircea_popescu: but what can you do for these people.
14:48:38 Dimsler_: evicerate the proliteriate
14:48:38 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 i kinda left it unreferenced fishing for noobs tbh. i'm kinda hoping the average clueless yet opinionanted keyboard warrior may pick on it to try and "mock" me.
14:48:40 Duffer1: bring lube?
14:48:50 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu maybe chamath will ask you what kind of shampoo you use
14:48:56 mircea_popescu: <Dimsler_> evicerate the proliteriate < epic
14:49:06 mircea_popescu: also, brb, gotta trample this mouse underfoot.
14:51:25 CheckDavid: Mats_cd03: I did not. But yes maybe it would
14:51:36 CheckDavid: Do you have any suggestion?
14:52:06 mircea_popescu: Kolin Burgess, a British bitcoin investor who spent much of Tuesday protesting outside of Mt. Gox?s abandoned office, in Tokyo, told a reporter for Reuters that he thought he had accumulated Bitcoins that were worth three hundred thousand dollars at the market?s peak. ?I?m very angry,? he said. ?It looks like that?s disappeared.?
14:52:07 mircea_popescu: epic.
14:54:42 CheckDavid: He can't buy a new car now
14:55:38 Mats_cd03: CheckDavid: i dunno, khan academy does alright, but i took accounting when i was in university - up to you to find a good resource
14:56:17 Mats_cd03: i did find an excellent pdf on finance earlier today for an aspiring quant
14:56:48 mircea_popescu: the problem with learnin accounting is that it's not an art, it's a craft. you can perhaps learn philosophy in your own time, of \your own volition. accounting however requires a reshaping of your mental process, which people never undertake willingly.
14:56:58 Mats_cd03: some of you might find it useful http://www.forex-warez.com/Trading%20Books/Paul%20Wilmott%20-%20FAQ%20in%20Quantitative%20Finance/Paul%20Wilmott%20-%20FAQ%20in%20Quantitative%20Finance.pdf
14:57:16 Mats_cd03: i hate the internet... stupid spaces
14:57:17 mircea_popescu: forex-warez ?! we're clearly running out of brands.
14:57:36 Mats_cd03: ya dude its the blackest market
14:57:43 Mats_cd03: /s
15:02:08 mircea_popescu: teh tramborghini!
15:03:53 CheckDavid: Ok. Thanks Mats_cd03
15:04:42 bitcoinpete: i put tramborghini doors on my escalade
15:04:54 bitcoinpete: more taleb, this time on options: http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/OptionPricing.pdf
15:05:04 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: descending trend?
15:10:10 bitcoinpete: ;;later tell benkay i also quite enjoyed your last 2 articles. https://twitter.com/bitcoinpete/status/449428017115181056 https://twitter.com/bitcoinpete/status/449428228780740609
15:10:29 mircea_popescu: CheckDavid hm ?
15:20:32 CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: fundamental analysis revealed that pair is in a downward trend
15:21:11 kakobrekla: ;;later tell davout the printing to pdf you suggested was rejected > "unreadable / bad quality / truncated (4)"
15:21:17 CheckDavid: You know? The pair?
15:21:25 CheckDavid: Hint: not currency pair
15:21:46 mircea_popescu: uh.
15:21:49 mircea_popescu: lol
15:21:57 mircea_popescu: you trying to say the girl is going down ?
15:22:39 CheckDavid: 2:13:02 PM mircea_popescu her tits will always point downwards on the long run, no matter what she wears.
15:24:42 bitcoinpete: this is lulzy
15:25:41 mircea_popescu: their ad is even better.
15:26:32 ozbot: Twitter / bitcoinpete: @bitcorati Fraud detection ...
15:26:52 bitcoinpete: because words
15:29:55 mircea_popescu: i think he means a different sort of fraud detection.
15:34:34 punkman: well shit, disk just had the CLICK OF DEATH, I think I lost a wallet
15:35:37 mircea_popescu: apparently, if you mostly follow chicks on twitter your timeline is full of women.
15:37:06 bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu mostly, yes, you're right.
15:37:28 bounce: banking security: bank sends plain text passwords in email. says it's safe because to log in you also need to know an email address. *that* email address, yes.
15:37:51 Mats_cd03: punkman: if youre unlucky you'll spend $200-500 to recover it
15:38:07 punkman: Mats_cd03: it was a doge wallet, not sure I care
15:38:14 Mats_cd03: lol
15:38:43 punkman: (inb4 WHY U NO BACKUPS)
15:39:43 punkman: !t h neobee
15:41:53 mircea_popescu: bounce ayup.
15:42:19 mircea_popescu: omg doge deflation
15:42:34 pLambert: !t h rent
15:43:48 bounce: somebody needs to write a banking front-end that actually makes sense. features like ability to feed it your gpg key. I'd write it except I have no contacts with banks so they'll never buy such off of me. (what give software away? to *banks*?)
15:44:42 punkman: bounce: need a proper backend first
15:44:47 mircea_popescu: bounce it's a moot point. banks aren't able to buy it anyway, unless the govt says do it.
15:45:02 mircea_popescu: much better to just make mpex run the current version of "banks" out of business completely,
15:45:08 mircea_popescu: then it'll be a moot point.
15:45:54 rithm: is this the new -otc where the mindless chatter happens
15:46:02 ozbot: Triple Entry Accounting
15:46:04 rithm: that's a highlevel observation type question
15:46:06 mircea_popescu: rithm hopefully not.
15:46:12 rithm: ijs
15:46:24 rithm: i see a lot of channels but only some of them light up
15:46:50 mircea_popescu: now that's a great link punkman
15:46:58 punkman: relevant to "proper backend"
15:47:16 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-bezzle-usd-and-the-tide-usd/#comment-98746
15:47:22 mircea_popescu: i was actually looking for it
15:49:12 punkman: "It should take an Act of God to start up in anything but the best possible security you can manage. A Presidential Order doesn't cut it. "
15:50:09 Mats_cd03: asciilifeform: the 556 will prevail, in answer to your question.
15:51:31 asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: history suggests that the 'lead standard' mode of a given country is strictly connected to what can be pilfered from military supplies, when the men guarding them turn free agent. so you're almost certainly correct.
15:51:45 asciilifeform: unless mexico makes the difference.
15:53:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform responded.
15:53:17 mike_c: geez, those furry beasts in the water on fraudsters are so cute i'm going to puke.
15:53:29 Mats_cd03: i was mostly thinking that the round is superior, is all. the weapons and rounds themselves are lighter than their counterparts
15:53:32 rithm: walmart has sued visa
15:53:39 rithm: this should beinteresting
15:54:00 mike_c: nah, lawyers will get paid and an agreement will be made.
15:54:00 mircea_popescu: mike_c >D
15:54:06 rithm: lately i find lawsuits to be some sort of method for absconding or hiding sums of monies
15:54:28 rithm: a lawsuit can be a further laundry
15:54:28 mircea_popescu: rithm you don't say.
15:54:44 rithm: wise beyond my years, i know
15:55:27 rithm: in my juvenile state i always assumed a lawsuit was a negative event
15:55:39 rithm: but i now i just see the spin cycle
15:55:40 asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: 'lead standard' (currency of a country in civil war) is rarely about military/technological superiority, except in degenerate case (e.g. british 'maxim' vs. zulu spear)
15:57:21 Mats_cd03: wasn't disagreeing with you, just reflecting on qualitative differences
16:00:18 Mats_cd03: interestingly, china is not well armed compared to the rest of the world
16:01:52 asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: the well-armed are the folks with the industrial capacity. and that would be who - if not china ?
16:02:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and again.
16:02:28 asciilifeform: granted their arms might still be buried in the ground, as ore, at the moment
16:02:42 Mats_cd03: i see your point, although im thinking of privately owned small firearms
16:03:08 the20year2: armed as what?
16:03:20 Mats_cd03: they certainly do have a habit of burying them and then digging them up for use against invaders every few hundred years
16:03:26 the20year2: China arms most of the middle east with weapons
16:03:26 asciilifeform: i would guess (by no means an expert guess, but that of armchair general) that the 'most barrels per man' is somewhere in the arab world
16:03:50 mircea_popescu: i imagine it's somewhere in the ex-russian central asia.
16:03:56 mircea_popescu: from mongolia to some stan
16:03:56 bounce: china has lots of cannon fodder. add some cheap mass-produced tat, and any opponent still has a bit of a problem.
16:04:14 mircea_popescu: bounce actually, that was the 70s. today, china leads the us in the space race.
16:04:28 Mats_cd03: it is remarkable to me that the greatest danger to chinese public safety
16:04:43 Mats_cd03: are people armed with kitchen knives and motorcycles
16:04:52 the20year2: and molotov cocktails
16:05:11 Mats_cd03: if the country wasnt shitty in other ways id love to live there, social stability and chinese women sounds great
16:05:29 mircea_popescu: if chinese women weren't ugly ;/
16:05:36 the20year2: and all gold diggers
16:05:42 the20year2: All the guys I know in china hate the women there
16:05:50 mircea_popescu: a woman can be trained.
16:06:15 bounce: that they do. not like the US couldn't see it coming, or anything. just that china can make do with very little. on top of that, they do have what looks like decent kit these days.
16:06:19 Mats_cd03: you guys must be great in social settings
16:07:25 the20year2: I certainly am!
16:08:21 mircea_popescu: were you being sarcastic ? my absent social skills prevent me from discerning sarcasm online.
16:08:41 pLambert: according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country the US has the most guns per person
16:08:55 the20year2: And it's growing a little every day
16:09:01 the20year2: Jan and Feb firearm sales were astronomical
16:09:02 asciilifeform: pLambert: 'barrels per man' includes 'man' and not merely 'barrels'
16:09:10 asciilifeform: cannon cannot fight by itself
16:09:12 bounce: too bad dual wielding isn't what the gamer kids believe it is
16:09:27 mircea_popescu: lol
16:09:36 the20year2: gamer kids have no hope
16:09:56 bounce: though there's the ROTM
16:10:04 pLambert: I don't get it, whats the diff between barrels-per-man and guns-per-capita?
16:10:25 mircea_popescu: there's a lot more to that man angle than anyone readily admits. take that recent treysomething or the other case.
16:10:29 mircea_popescu: the monkey got shot, in the end, it's true
16:10:30 the20year2: double barreled shotguns count as two!
16:10:34 asciilifeform: pLambert: picture one of those palestinian hospital-cum-armoury places
16:10:40 mircea_popescu: only after beating the shit out of the eventual shooter for half an hour.
16:10:44 mircea_popescu: that won't wash irl.
16:10:51 asciilifeform: hundreds of wounded, plus women and children 'shields', enough artillery to equip a division
16:11:00 asciilifeform: but is there a division there?
16:11:10 the20year2: not division strength :D
16:11:21 mircea_popescu: people who shoot you the moment you've looked the wrong way are quite different from people who scuffle with you over their own gun which then sorta-accidentally discharges.
16:12:12 asciilifeform: a fixation on hardware is one of the 'professional diseases' of technological civilization
16:12:25 the20year2: i just don't like the people that complain about the legal constructs of the state for self defense and want to make it illegal to defend yourself
16:12:52 asciilifeform: ;;google yi yi zhi yi
16:13:00 asciilifeform: retarded.
16:13:04 Mats_cd03: i believe owning a weapon is a privilege rather than a right
16:13:06 asciilifeform: ;;google "yi yi zhi yi"
16:13:11 asciilifeform: ok no dice.
16:13:13 the20year2: And I don't
16:13:34 mircea_popescu: owning a weapon is an ability.
16:13:34 the20year2: I feel that the ability to adequately defend yourself and your family isn't just a right, it's required
16:13:36 Mats_cd03: i believe should be compelled to prove competency with it as well as commit to securing the weapon
16:13:39 mircea_popescu: privileges and rights don't enter into it.
16:13:43 Mats_cd03: ^ you
16:13:50 bounce: well, there's more to it than that. in the USoA there's also a strong cultural current that requires guns. and, relatedly, something to fight, so they'll keep on looking for exactly that. in that sense two wars at the same time is them 'merkins having a cultural field day.
16:13:59 mircea_popescu: the gun was there before there were privileges, rights or beliefs
16:14:04 mircea_popescu: it will hopefully survive all that crud.
16:14:17 asciilifeform: deadliest known weapon, long before gunpowder, is: set of balls
16:14:23 the20year2: The technological prerequisite to production of a firearm is quite low
16:14:40 Mats_cd03: in practical terms securing the weapon means two different locks for the bolt carrier group and the upper receiver
16:15:00 the20year2: which prevents access in time of emergency or delays a theif by a whole minute or two
16:15:04 Mats_cd03: if that was imposed, people dying of negligent discharges would drop 90%
16:15:22 the20year2: Negligent discharges are quite low overall and are decreasing by pretty large amounts in the US
16:15:31 Mats_cd03: if it takes you a minute to remove two locks and assemble the weapon you deserve to die to a home invasion
16:15:41 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 two different locks ?
16:15:46 mircea_popescu: what are you making there, a hope chest ?
16:15:49 the20year2: You think most people can do that when their door is being busted down?
16:16:21 asciilifeform: my understanding is that such locks are usually meant against the owner's sons rather than enemies
16:16:24 the20year2: Why not require the same of police officers too? Since they have the same, or more negligent discharges than civilians
16:16:33 mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 by the same argument, people who die by negligent discharge deserve to die anwyay /
16:16:34 Mats_cd03: youre more likely to die to a negligent discharge than to a home invasion
16:16:43 mike_c: the20year2: probably not a percentage basis?
16:16:48 Mats_cd03: thats the reasoning, anyway
16:16:56 the20year2: And you're more likely to be in a car accident 100 times over than an accidental firearm discharge
16:17:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i seriously don't see who'd like to keep that particular son.
16:17:18 mircea_popescu: the best way to raise boys is to regularly give them enough rope to hang themselves and then enforce the hanging once they started it.
16:17:24 bounce: well, it's a bit of a problem if that son first shoots half a magazine worth of neighbours
16:17:26 mike_c: the20year2: again.. seems misleading. is that just for gun owners?
16:17:38 asciilifeform: perhaps no one, but others want to keep theirs - and their domestic animals, window glass, etc.
16:17:43 the20year2: Among all accidental firearm discharges in the US , there were 600 deaths last year
16:18:08 the20year2: Compared to 3,500 drowning deaths, 750 people beat to death with hands and feet, 40,000 alcohol related deaths and 500,000 tobacco related deaths
16:18:30 mike_c: yes, but everybody has hands and feet. not everybody has guns.
16:18:35 asciilifeform: death statistics are a tiresome subject. no one dies of statistics.
16:18:39 Mats_cd03: how do you propose solving social problems with statistics
16:19:11 the20year2: Well, i could base everything on how I "Feel", but i don't know that my feelings would have any impact on others
16:19:12 chetty: no such thing as social problems
16:19:54 mircea_popescu: i wonder how many deaths are "related" to statistics
16:20:01 mircea_popescu: in the sense they are "related" to tobacco
16:20:06 chetty: 95%
16:20:34 asciilifeform: i can think of one example
16:20:53 mircea_popescu: let's see... if some guy needs an operation and the insurance won't clear it because they judge he's too old/poor/etc, and he dies
16:21:00 mircea_popescu: this would be a statistics related death neh ?
16:21:08 asciilifeform: when the usg banned the instant 'hiv' tester device, the argument, if i recall, was that people would kill themselves on learning the result, if no surrounded by government-approved shrinks
16:21:19 mircea_popescu: lol
16:21:21 benkay: ;;gpg eauth benkay
16:21:34 the20year2: Didn't all those people die during holomodor due to USSR's amazing statistics & record keeping?
16:21:38 benkay: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:983637eb42b48a2be08fe9d0aa52ad0f7cb6412de4764cff08499c25
16:21:39 mircea_popescu: wait, hiv testing is banned in the us?!
16:21:48 mircea_popescu: the20year2 it definitely could be argued.
16:21:48 benkay: ;;rate bitcoinpete 1 does what he says he will.
16:22:05 mircea_popescu: twas holodomor too
16:22:20 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not banned as such. but the 'holy grail' that could have eradicated the virus, a pocket-sized instant electronic gizmo, sat in a glass case at one of my old employers' facility
16:22:30 asciilifeform: and is not to be found at pharmacy.
16:22:34 the20year2: Although you could also blame it on lynshenkoism (sp) which kind of is a statistical thing there too
16:22:46 mircea_popescu: dja know how miciurin died ?
16:22:59 asciilifeform: 'fell from a strawberry tree' ?
16:23:13 mircea_popescu: aye.
16:23:19 asciilifeform: like a jpm accountant.
16:23:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm310545.htm ?
16:24:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not this one. a re-usable, electronic gizmo that took a few min.
16:24:21 asciilifeform: could've been used by civilians prior to putting on condom, etc.
16:24:32 mircea_popescu: this seems to work the same way neh ?
16:24:39 mircea_popescu: i know pron companies now use something on the sets.
16:24:50 mircea_popescu: after that major scare a few years back
16:24:56 asciilifeform: the difference is important (expensive, disposable, slow) vs. reusable (cheap), compact, fast.
16:25:07 mircea_popescu: who reuses a hiv test ?!
16:25:11 mircea_popescu: seems a bad idea.
16:25:19 asciilifeform: i believe the gizmo in question used a 'microarray'
16:25:24 mircea_popescu: "i got hiv from sharing the hiv tester with a hiv sufferer"
16:25:38 asciilifeform: (SRAM with immunoreactant crap permanently bonded to the capacitors)
16:25:45 asciilifeform: spit, wash.
16:25:48 asciilifeform: repeat.
16:26:22 mircea_popescu: o
16:26:36 asciilifeform: incidentally, the same tech could easily test the composition of a drug (pharmacy or back alley, user's choice)
16:26:44 mircea_popescu: yeah
16:26:52 asciilifeform: these things actually work.
16:28:56 asciilifeform: in usa (and colonies) - a fellow who sells actual solutions to 'social problem' crapola is liable to 'begin to have problems.'
16:29:00 benkay: mircea_popescu: re gpgauth.org, that doesn't store private keys though.
16:29:09 ozbot: New regulated UK exchange opening
16:29:11 mircea_popescu: nefario trying the kenna trick.
16:29:38 mircea_popescu: benkay no i understand that. but if you use it, you have to still secure your site,
16:29:47 mircea_popescu: and then hope that both gpgauth and your link to it is also secure.
16:30:06 asciilifeform: letmepawnmystolencraponyou.com
16:30:09 asciilifeform: or something like that
16:30:41 BingoBoingo: Duffer1: Your link looked link Dank discovered socks
16:30:53 mike_c: but if you use gpgauth and they get hacked, you have an excuse. so it's ok. like when your site goes down because aws goes down, built in excuse. </sarcasm>
16:31:41 benkay: o i thought the excuse was =========
16:31:51 benkay: "hashes match on my device!"
16:32:39 mircea_popescu: mike_c heh i see.
16:32:58 mircea_popescu: but seriously now, i fail to see what it offers. i mean i suppose one could loot their github for code, and the site could be just a demo.
16:33:42 mircea_popescu: benkay https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135834.msg5947874#msg5947874
16:33:46 mircea_popescu: the pr salute you.
16:34:27 asciilifeform: in other news,
16:34:35 benkay: i don't see my name there...
16:34:37 benkay: some salute.
16:35:04 mircea_popescu: benkay a half mast salute ? :D
16:35:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hjaha cool.
16:35:44 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/449585590187880448
16:35:45 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: 'zorro' (aes-based cipher) ...
16:35:51 mircea_popescu: there, i've now robbed peter to pay paul.
16:35:58 mircea_popescu: can i be government yet ?
16:36:12 benkay: ;;gettrust eskimobob
16:36:36 tg2: Bro do u even r8
16:36:47 mike_c: true or false: if i type a password into my shell, and then call 'history -c', i am ok?
16:37:00 tg2: Hdd or ssd?
16:37:08 mircea_popescu: mike_c not ok.
16:37:30 mike_c: assume i am not worried about someone raw-reading my hdd. are there other attack vectors?
16:37:46 tg2: Auth logs often will keep a history of commands
16:37:46 mircea_popescu: yes. the shell only flushes the session at times.
16:37:59 mircea_popescu: so your -c may or may not hit what you want
16:38:35 mircea_popescu: a good approach is to search everywhere for another string in the history file, then wipe your password from everywhere you found keeps a copy.
16:38:55 mike_c: ok, thanks.
16:38:58 mircea_popescu: and this to be done after all processes involved ended.
16:39:00 tg2: Grep -iR "yourpass" /
16:39:05 tg2: Go have a coffee
16:39:06 asciilifeform: the 'zorro' thing isn't a mega-news, on account of it being a kind of 'castrated' aes variant
16:39:06 tg2: Lol
16:39:08 mircea_popescu: unless you conveniently search ram etc.
16:39:12 asciilifeform: but still interesting that people bother.
16:40:58 bounce: all the while "yourpass" sits in the process list for all to see
16:43:05 mircea_popescu: if you like yourpass you can keep yourpass.
16:43:58 ozbot: Putin says Crimea showed 'new capacities' of Russian army - International - World - Ahram Online
16:44:20 mircea_popescu: 10mF
16:44:31 asciilifeform: lol!
16:46:13 asciilifeform: because we're madmen, let's actually calculate this.
16:46:34 ozbot: Ukraine: Crimea Bases Under Russian Control |
16:47:00 ozbot: Extreme Electronics | Capacitance of a human body
16:47:07 asciilifeform: let's take the 100pF value, conservatively.
16:47:30 asciilifeform: ;;google russian army strength 2014
16:47:48 *: mircea_popescu prepares to fall over laughing.
16:48:24 benkay: this apparently is how options are working now: http://bitbet.us/bet/798/bitcoin-to-drop-under-400-before-june/ http://bitbet.us/bet/799/bitcoin-price-above-800-before-july/
16:49:10 mircea_popescu: lol srsly.
16:49:18 asciilifeform: if we take the 69 million available men figure,
16:49:20 Mats_cd03: neat
16:49:28 asciilifeform: ;;calc (200e-12 * 69000000) / (1e-3)
16:49:46 asciilifeform: whatever, ~13.8 millifarad.
16:49:55 asciilifeform: so, mp is quite close.
16:50:53 asciilifeform: mp wins 'fermi' prize.
16:50:59 *: asciilifeform bows.
16:52:05 asciilifeform: homework: calculate 'if the chinese jumped.'
16:52:14 asciilifeform: (actual physics puzzle from my childhood)
16:52:32 the20year2: Reserves are calculated differently in each country
16:54:08 asciilifeform: 200pf
16:54:14 asciilifeform: damn, not awake
16:54:26 the20year2: that's more than double 100pf , right?
16:54:30 asciilifeform: given value is for 200.
16:55:28 asciilifeform: incidentally, capacitance of the body is not mere trivia, but modern mobile gizmotry lives and dies by it (touch panel.)
16:55:50 asciilifeform: (try using a capacitative panel with your fingernail)
16:57:07 ozbot: Navy says farewell to fire-damaged sub Miami | Navy Times | navytimes.com
16:57:16 the20year2: do they put caps in styluses?
16:57:33 asciilifeform: in the russian wankasphere, at the time, there were countless wags suggesting nominating the drunk for 'order of lenin'
16:57:42 benkay: capacitor not necessary for capacitance
16:58:06 asciilifeform: virtually anything is a capacitor, depending on your circumstances.
16:58:13 benkay: pedant
16:58:15 asciilifeform: just some are larger than others.
16:58:27 benkay: some are also engineered and subsequently manufactured.
16:58:32 benkay: vs grown in wombs
16:58:45 asciilifeform: at this point, even cable monkeys, afaik, know this - because at high frequencies, a wire is a capacitor
16:58:54 asciilifeform: a kink in the cable - an inductor.
16:59:34 asciilifeform: the 'lumped element model' of electronics was ok for the first half of 20th c.
16:59:36 asciilifeform: now, not so much.
16:59:45 benkay: kinks can even induce reflections if your application's sensitive to 'em.
17:00:01 benkay: once had to design a nightmare of a cable harness for wafer probing.
17:00:05 asciilifeform: mismatched impedence -> also reflections. undergrad physics.
17:00:12 Mats_cd03: i love you guys
17:00:14 asciilifeform: try it at home!
17:00:38 asciilifeform: even the lowliest asian oscilloscope comes with built-in test waveform generator
17:00:44 benkay: minimum bend radii, maximum cable lengths, nobody ever wanted to cram that many probes that close together before, handed the problem to resident kid.
17:01:03 asciilifeform: attach to a cable made with two segments of mismatched impedence
17:01:07 asciilifeform: the other end, to a probe.
17:01:08 punkman: asciilifeform: what's a good chinese brand for scopes?
17:01:15 asciilifeform: then watch the echos.
17:01:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude i think i actually can prove there won't be no "lead standard".
17:01:44 asciilifeform: punkman: mine's a recent 'rigol' (has documented interface, linux friendly)
17:01:47 asciilifeform: other people - use others
17:01:56 asciilifeform: for HF work, a 1978 'hewlett packard'
17:02:19 asciilifeform: wake up diametric, he'll describe his collection.
17:02:42 diametric: collection of what?
17:02:48 asciilifeform: instruments
17:02:52 asciilifeform: and their purposes
17:03:07 ozbot: College offers a course on Miley Cyrus, but not twerking
17:04:21 asciilifeform: ;;google Rigol DS1102D
17:04:31 asciilifeform: reasonably cheap, all-purpose gizmo
17:04:38 diametric: oh, I have a collection but ultimately I don't do enough electronics work to give that great of opinions on it.
17:04:46 asciilifeform: if a little of a 'trabambourghini'.
17:04:56 diametric: ;;google owon sds7102
17:05:04 diametric: thats the one I have, it works well for my uses.
17:05:32 asciilifeform: i think most people (who have any dealings with such matters, at any rate) own at least 2 scopes - a chinese trambo, and a vintage american analogue unit.
17:05:54 benkay: "vintage"? how old is vintage?
17:05:58 diametric: yeah I have a 79 (i think?) tektronics of some sort I haven't used very much
17:06:09 asciilifeform: 1970s usually
17:06:15 benkay: those are a joy
17:06:25 asciilifeform: similar machines are still made. $2-3K+
17:06:27 benkay: i had to have someone who grew up with them teach me how to use them though.
17:06:56 benkay: manuals having long since disappeared from the shop.
17:06:59 asciilifeform: using a scope isn't rocket surgery
17:07:03 asciilifeform: and you can usually find the manual on the net.
17:07:22 benkay: << lowly mechanical
17:07:28 asciilifeform: it's merely a voltmeter with a time axis.
17:07:40 benkay: plus also cameraderie and mentorship.
17:08:01 asciilifeform: the first oscilloscope wasn't even electronic in the usual sense (mirror on a rope, deflected by electrostatic charges, candle, projects on wall)
17:08:25 asciilifeform: most of what we think of as 'high tech' was created by people who never lived to see a plastic bag.
17:08:28 asciilifeform: think of it that way.
17:09:44 *: asciilifeform is mostly an uneducated brute, who learned of things by playing with them, and libraries.
17:09:48 benkay: lucky them, living in such a slow time and communing with such giants.
17:10:19 the20year2: if i had a major need for one i could have picked up a few by now
17:10:43 asciilifeform: instruments with acceptable, if not great, quality, are more available today than ever.
17:11:17 asciilifeform: navhul-lacsup << urbit syllablegen? !
17:11:36 benkay: asciilifeform: looks like it, neh?
17:11:46 benkay: ahoy the sub
17:11:47 navhul-lacsup: asciilifeform: yeah, I lurk there
17:12:12 mircea_popescu: benkay i don't know enough about cpus to be useful there.
17:12:25 asciilifeform: somebody linked to 'mill' in my comment peanutgallery once
17:12:32 mircea_popescu: navhul-lacsup wait, so is this actually an urbit powered irc bouncer ?!
17:12:49 mircea_popescu: wait wait wait nowai, you don't lose connection nearly frequently enough.
17:12:57 punkman: oh sweet, you can hack these Rigols http://hackaday.com/2013/07/02/unlocking-a-rigol-scope-once-again/
17:12:58 asciilifeform: these folks are crackpots, quite possibly inspired by my ravings re: dataflow archs. so i am to blame.
17:13:13 asciilifeform: they've no hardware.
17:13:25 diametric: punkman: maybe, i vaguely remember reading after that came out the newer shipped ones don't work
17:13:31 diametric: punkman: i could be wrong
17:13:41 navhul-lacsup: i like a lot of technical goals of the project, but I do worry that it is too radical to take off
17:13:59 benkay: insufficiently-horsed is more like it.
17:14:11 navhul-lacsup: maybe a clone written for the JVM would be more popular/successful
17:14:30 mircea_popescu: so ascii is to blame huh ?
17:14:31 ozbot: "Behold the Lord High Executioner" - YouTube
17:15:11 navhul-lacsup: I'm mostly interested in upgrading internet architecture with referential transparency, no bitrot, and secure identity baked in
17:15:34 navhul-lacsup: the stuff under that layer is beyond me, and seems to add to the risk of the project
17:15:52 navhul-lacsup: but Curtis wouldn't be excited enough to do it without reinventing the world from scratch
17:16:03 asciilifeform: navhul-lacsup: 'you can't mold a bullet from shit' (rus. saying)
17:16:36 asciilifeform: curtis found a dog turd, dried for years, and decided that it is hard enough to whittle bullet from
17:16:58 navhul-lacsup: I'll read your post when I am off paid time
17:17:16 navhul-lacsup: (I actually rss subscribe to your blog)
17:17:27 asciilifeform: my recommendation is - don't - it will probably make you unhappy
17:18:12 asciilifeform: (tldr version - curtis re-invented: nothing. 'old wine in new bottle')
17:24:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-bezzle-usd-and-the-tide-usd/#comment-98750
17:24:48 mircea_popescu: navhul-lacsup well nice toi have you anyways.
17:27:43 rithm: if only they'd print serial numbers on all those tide bottles...
17:27:52 mircea_popescu: rithm they do.
17:28:06 mircea_popescu: all fmcg carries lot and serial identification.
17:28:09 rithm: are you sure? when did that start?
17:28:15 mircea_popescu: the 80s ?
17:28:30 rithm: i'll have to do more grocery shopping to confirm this theroy
17:28:53 mircea_popescu: look around the seams, usually where the typographical allignment marks are.
17:29:07 rithm: i personally operate mostly in the bezzle space obv
17:29:23 mircea_popescu: i think most everyone here does.
17:29:25 mircea_popescu: i know i do.
17:29:35 mircea_popescu: well... or used to, i guess bitcoin changes that.
17:29:55 rithm: i'm very intriqgued by the tideUSD market though
17:30:02 rithm: -q
17:30:08 the20year2: tideusd?
17:30:23 rithm: mmmhmmmm
17:30:57 the20year2: Tide? The soap?
17:31:07 mircea_popescu: rithm if us ngos were actually useful rather than a cozy retreat for useless white cunts, we'd have some research data available as to actual economic expenditure of ghetto household
17:31:25 mircea_popescu: i suspect on average about 1/3 of available resources goes to chemicals.
17:31:29 mircea_popescu: the20year2 yea
17:31:39 the20year2: i know soap theft is pretty big
17:32:02 benkay: "chemicals" including lots of nominally nutritive materials
17:32:04 rithm: mircea_popescu i have supporting data based on my surroundings that confirm your hypothesis
17:32:11 the20year2: you mean ghetto food too?
17:32:13 mircea_popescu: benkay i mostly meant psychoactives.
17:32:19 the20year2: Ah, drugs
17:32:29 mircea_popescu: rithm sure, i have a lot of anecdotal support
17:32:48 rithm: well alcohol and tobacco consume large portions of the blue collar paycheck
17:32:55 the20year2: I'd love to see the data
17:32:58 rithm: erm tideUSD
17:33:00 mircea_popescu: generally you can "crash", ie, board, for free with "friends"
17:33:01 the20year2: but look at top employers in ghetto areas
17:33:08 mircea_popescu: but "friendship" is borne out of sharing chems.
17:33:18 mircea_popescu: so in a sense, rent for the ghetto is paid in grams.
17:33:23 asciilifeform: then there are the Chukchas
17:33:32 asciilifeform: and their 'amanita muscaria'
17:33:32 rithm: ic
17:33:54 asciilifeform: where the drug is - literally - shared with friends.
17:34:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exact same practice existed in medieval romanian and prior
17:34:14 asciilifeform: (excreted unchanged, piss is served)
17:34:21 mircea_popescu: and in medieval crimeea, scythic times.
17:34:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: everywhere the thing grows
17:40:15 tg2: grams/month living index
17:45:13 ozbot: Homeopathic remedies recalled for containing real medicine (Wired UK)
17:46:10 asciilifeform: good thing james randi didn't eat a kilo of that one
17:46:13 asciilifeform: during his demos
17:47:34 the20year2: oh dang
17:47:51 the20year2: i've never understood homeopathy, and i don't think most who believe in it do either
17:48:24 benkay: not much to understand, the20year2.
17:48:32 benkay: there's nothing there.
17:48:34 asciilifeform: re: http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1 << every bottle of laundry crap, in every shop, where i live - has a bulky rfid alarm gizmo chained to it.
17:49:18 benkay: asciilifeform: there aren't zappers floating around?
17:49:18 asciilifeform: the shop clerk disarms it with some electro crap built into the cash register, and snips off the alarm wire
17:49:28 the20year2: Yeah
17:49:34 the20year2: same with electronics in most stores
17:49:38 asciilifeform: thieves have been walking with shield bags for many years.
17:49:50 asciilifeform: same kind of bag used to house static-sensitive electronics, but larger.
17:49:52 benkay: asciilifeform: this defense ignores the store mandates that store employees not actually do anything during a theft for fear of liability.
17:50:15 asciilifeform: the alarm goes off many times, every day, cries wolf
17:50:41 asciilifeform: and who would chase a genuine thief? the 'minimum wage' clerk?
17:51:15 jurov: smile sheepishly, shrug it off, walk out
17:51:25 benkay: asciilifeform: that is what i'm driving at.
17:51:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz you live in the sticks. they don't bother with that shit here.
17:51:34 asciilifeform: one day we will probably see shops where you enter and leave through a 'man trap'
17:51:42 mircea_popescu: they DO however rfid the hell out of alcohol bottles
17:51:45 asciilifeform: lets you in if your (radio-enabled) card has credit
17:52:07 asciilifeform: lets you out if your balance - minus the prices reported by radio tags on the junk in your bags - is positive
17:52:18 asciilifeform: no clerks.
17:52:44 asciilifeform: ;;google mantrap
17:53:09 asciilifeform: aka airlock
17:53:50 ozbot: Bank robber trapped in Access Control Vestibule - YouTube
17:55:04 benkay: mircea_popescu: most places in the US alcohol is only touchable by the clerks.
17:55:43 mircea_popescu: the epic http://fraudsters.com/2012/what-does-a-start-up-run-on/ was made by me loading my own cart.
17:55:51 asciilifeform: benkay: in the cities. it is sold through a little window, like movie tickets.
17:56:02 BingoBoingo: benkay: Sounds like a sad place
17:56:03 asciilifeform: elsewhere, it is sold like ordinary things
17:56:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's how they do pond shops here.
17:56:45 asciilifeform: ;;google chechen mafia booth
17:57:29 benkay: oh it's the most hilarious in the occupied cascadian territories, BingoBoingo
17:57:41 benkay: we labor under a state sponsored liquor monopoly.
17:58:11 BingoBoingo: benkay: Here we have liquor and tobacco superstores where you can browse the aisles
17:58:30 benkay: go fuck yourself
17:58:48 benkay: i hate socialism
17:58:50 BingoBoingo: Walk up to the counter, walk out with a keg
17:58:58 asciilifeform: places where shops get robbed beyond some critical frequency tend to sprout 'chechen'-style kiosks. picture a shipping container, perhaps with a bit of extra armour, with a small hole.
17:59:16 asciilifeform: money enters, booze, smokes, etc. come out.
17:59:17 benkay: that was my experience in NYC, asciilifeform.
17:59:42 benkay: luckily, we don't have much actual in-person robbery here. just communism.
17:59:57 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is that chicago ?
18:00:04 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: St Louis.
18:00:20 BingoBoingo: The gas stations in less desirable areas have armor, glass and kiosks
18:00:31 mircea_popescu: weird shit.
18:01:20 BingoBoingo: The larger outfits just have people cabable of handling security handling security
18:03:23 BingoBoingo: The image midpage almost captures the scale of the place
18:05:22 ozbot: SAQ Signature concept honored by the Retail Design Institute
18:05:26 tg2: thats our fanciest booze store
18:05:50 tg2: 5500 sq ft
18:06:39 benkay: it's not nearly as bad here as i make it out
18:06:45 benkay: the nice stores are nice, obviously.
18:07:00 benkay: the monopoly is a horrendous thing.
18:07:28 tg2: yeah it's bad
18:07:48 tg2: an $80 bottle of wine in florida can be $300+ by the time it gets here
18:08:07 tg2: probably one of the worst examples of government monopoly
18:08:13 benkay: what's even more funny is that canadian beef is cheaper here than it is up there.
18:08:22 tg2: yeah but we like USDA beef ;)
18:08:31 tg2: classic "grass is greener"
18:09:15 BingoBoingo: St Louis also has a sort of privately run beer welfare, take the free AB brewery tour and get two beers at the end
18:09:25 benkay: USDA's horrendously more expensive up north.
18:09:51 tg2: 12oz AAA tenderloin is $45+ in most places here
18:10:03 tg2: not from the butcher, but in any respectable restaurant
18:10:06 benkay: ah
18:10:10 benkay: i was going to say.
18:10:14 tg2: its around $78/kg here
18:10:25 tg2: for usda/aaa
18:10:27 tg2: from the grocery
18:10:50 tg2: $26 per 12oz
18:11:00 benkay: argentina!
18:11:35 tg2: wife's family owns a bunch of dairy farms
18:11:46 Mats_cd03: .bait
18:12:01 tg2: so we get free-range grass-fed beef
18:13:56 the20year2: daaang
18:14:02 ozbot: Veteran cyclist killed by minivan knew the dangers all too well | The Columbus Dispatch
18:14:07 ozbot: Natacha Daro (NatachaDaroOK) on Twitter
18:14:13 asciilifeform: (tldr - jpm corpse)
18:14:18 the20year2: tg2: where are you?
18:14:32 mircea_popescu: lmao. most excellent wine here is about 10-15 bucks.
18:14:35 mircea_popescu: what 80, what 300.
18:14:38 tg2: I thought it was sacha grey in that pic
18:14:45 mircea_popescu: the finest cognac in the world goes for ~55 a bottle.
18:14:51 the20year2: AAA beef grade is USDA choice which is pretty low
18:14:52 tg2: :|
18:15:01 tg2: I guess we have different taste in wine :)
18:15:34 mircea_popescu: possibly.
18:15:42 mircea_popescu: but i've yet to have a decent us wine.
18:15:53 mircea_popescu: i don't even mean good. decent. something i could in good conscience feed women.
18:15:54 tg2: i can give you a list of "to-try" if youw ant
18:16:02 tg2: you're close to napa I'm guessing
18:16:04 mircea_popescu: many have.
18:16:09 tg2: 1 just have one
18:16:10 tg2: you can try
18:16:11 mircea_popescu: no, im in romania. close to recas.
18:16:15 tg2: opus one
18:16:24 tg2: then insignia
18:16:31 tg2: then silver oak
18:16:32 tg2: ;)
18:16:39 mircea_popescu: insignia ?!
18:16:46 tg2: I have cases of it
18:16:47 tg2: its great
18:16:59 mircea_popescu: i thought that was a flat panel tv maker o.O
18:16:59 tg2: puts california on the map imo
18:17:11 ozbot: Insignia : Joseph Phelps Vineyards
18:17:22 ozbot: Opus One
18:17:25 BingoBoingo: ;;google insignia product
18:17:34 tg2: haha
18:17:37 tg2: yes they are
18:17:43 tg2: but the wine has more lineage
18:17:44 tg2: ;D
18:18:00 mircea_popescu: lolk
18:18:08 mircea_popescu: i dunno how much lineage it can have, but anyway
18:18:16 BingoBoingo: I have trouble trusting a brand named after something a brand is supposed to have, rather than actually having its own
18:18:57 tg2: it's a great wine
18:19:34 tg2: but it's $325 a bottle here
18:19:46 tg2: I found a case of opus one in a convenience store in maui
18:19:49 tg2: for $55 per bottle
18:20:41 tg2: at the back of a fridge
18:20:43 BingoBoingo: ;;ident
18:20:50 tg2: was 1996
18:20:54 tg2: this was in ~2008
18:21:10 ozbot: 1996 Opus One, Napa Valley, USA: prices | wine-searcher
18:22:57 tg2: anyway, all this to say fuck government monopolies
18:23:33 mircea_popescu: http://www.recaswine.ro/CrameleRecas/galerie.php?r=na
18:23:35 ozbot: Cramele Recas/ Recas Winery
18:23:41 mircea_popescu: this'be the winery about 20 miles from here.
18:24:15 mircea_popescu: they make something like 10 mn bottles a year, most of it sold as entry and mid range wine. if you run into it tho buy it, because it's probably the best you'll ever drink at that price level.
18:24:18 tg2: I would go for some italian super tuscans
18:24:27 tg2: that should be available where you are
18:24:35 tg2: sassicaia
18:24:38 punkman: I got this box of wine here that was about 3eur/litre.
18:25:01 punkman: same thing is shipped to France and bottled, then sold to Americans for a huge premium
18:25:15 tg2: my eyes are rolling so hard right now
18:25:22 punkman: yah
18:25:39 mircea_popescu: punkman about how it works, yeah.
18:26:01 tg2: next time you guys are in montreal ping me we'll hit the cellar :)
18:27:42 mircea_popescu: do you have to heat the cellars up there ?
18:27:52 tg2: yes actually
18:27:53 tg2: lol
18:29:10 tg2: I have a pit cellar (under the house) and cold air tends to make it's way down there
18:29:17 mircea_popescu: aha
18:29:22 mircea_popescu: must suck
18:29:30 tg2: well if it freezes
18:29:34 tg2: you just ruined thousands of bottles
18:29:36 mircea_popescu: ya that's the end of it
18:29:37 tg2: so yes
18:29:38 punkman: I could use a nice cellar
18:29:57 mircea_popescu: but ideally, people should live in places where a properly dug cellar maintains a proper temperature with no exceptions.
18:30:03 mircea_popescu: there's criteria to choose where to live.
18:30:08 tg2: I /think/ it's actually below the frost line but I wouldn't want to test it out
18:30:11 tg2: I keep them at 14C
18:30:21 mircea_popescu: (incidentally, do you know how roman legionnaires chose where to settle down ? ie, they wanted to be able to grow wine)
18:30:43 tg2: well romans + wine goes pretty hand in hand
18:31:06 mircea_popescu: indeed.
18:32:38 tg2: sadly I don't know of many romanian wines
18:32:53 tg2: geographically they should be able to grow the same caliber of wine as itali
18:33:04 mircea_popescu: they actually beat france.
18:33:07 mircea_popescu: better soil.
18:33:18 tg2: its a combination of soil and sun and temperature
18:33:22 mircea_popescu: yeah.
18:34:04 tg2: craiova is about the same latitude as the two regions in italy and france that produce the "top" wines
18:34:59 tg2: you need hills of the right orientation, arid seasons, mild temperature variances and the right amount of daylight (and, you know, some fugesi) to grow good wine
18:35:10 mike_c: tl;dr: watch a tesla run over a concrete block: https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*jX6zAXW-xmUgkNDhi891zQ.gif
18:35:44 mircea_popescu: thats a map of the major wine producing zones
18:35:54 ozbot: Tesla Model S Awarded NHTSA's Highest Safety Rating - John Paczkowski - News - AllThingsD
18:36:14 mircea_popescu: mike_c quite impressive.
18:36:23 mircea_popescu: but you know, what happens if the obstacle isn't brissant
18:36:42 mike_c: immovable object, unstoppable force, who knows?
18:36:51 punkman: so they redesigned Paypal to be responsive or whatever, now I can't even get to my account page
18:36:56 tg2: lol
18:37:06 tg2: they're doing the world a service.
18:37:27 mike_c: plus neither I nor google knows what brissant means.
18:37:28 mircea_popescu: punkman there's a bug of stupid going around, they fucked up namecheap earilier.
18:37:38 mircea_popescu: mike_c from french brisser, which crumbles
18:37:45 mircea_popescu: the opposite of ductility
18:37:48 mike_c: ah. my limited language skills at work.
18:38:00 tg2: that special feeling when paypal sends you an email that your account is now "restricted" and they're going to hang on to your $200k while they evaluate the situation for the next 6 months
18:38:06 tg2: at which point they may or may not give it back
18:38:10 tg2: depending on how they feel
18:38:28 punkman: I just use it for small purchases here and there
18:38:33 benkay: mike_c: show me the same thing with a piece of steel a la what kicked off a recent Tesla fire.
18:38:39 mircea_popescu: ^
18:38:43 tg2: I'm surprised they haven't been sued into the ground yet. People are overly complacent
18:38:50 mike_c: they ran over an alternator and a tow hitch. but they were brissant.
18:38:50 mircea_popescu: tg2 they settle.
18:38:53 tg2: even gox - it amazes me
18:38:58 mircea_popescu: it's actually a decent way to make a buck.
18:39:08 tg2: "oh well guys looks like we lost 500m$" "silly us"
18:39:13 benkay: what, a tow hitch is brissant?
18:39:26 mircea_popescu: mike_c well see, there's a reason why karate guys break one foot of brick but never try half inch of cast iron pot.
18:39:27 benkay: i figured those were ductile.
18:39:45 benkay: ah.
18:39:47 tg2: that concrete was likely cast for that express test
18:39:49 mike_c: actually less brissant than i thought
18:39:54 benkay: well it's still
18:39:56 benkay: steel
18:39:59 mircea_popescu: wow pretty good going with the hitch
18:40:01 benkay: ductile != brissant
18:40:04 ozbot: Easy Concrete Demolition, Rock Breaking, Excavating: How to Break Rocks, Concrete Easily with Dexpan
18:40:05 tg2: check that shit out
18:40:22 mircea_popescu: what's that item flyiong out after the puncture /
18:40:24 tg2: i'd like to see a tesla drive over that
18:40:28 benkay: bolt holding plates in, mircea_popescu
18:40:38 benkay: you can see the threads strip and then it wobble out
18:40:40 mircea_popescu: that's one motherfucking bolt
18:40:50 mircea_popescu: it looks like it'd barely fit a virgin ass.
18:40:57 tg2: its not a bolt
18:40:57 benkay: helluva lever arm across the width of the body
18:40:58 tg2: it's a pop pin
18:41:03 tg2: plastic pin that holds that cover on
18:41:06 benkay: a!
18:41:07 tg2: they use it in interior panels
18:41:09 mircea_popescu: ah
18:41:31 benkay: seems a bit inertia-y for plastic
18:41:40 benkay: should tumble and slow much more imho
18:41:43 benkay: but what do i know
18:41:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, pretty impressive armor they got on the thing
18:41:58 mircea_popescu: what is it, some poly something ?
18:42:04 benkay: could it be a metal pop pin?
18:42:18 tg2: it oculd yes but its likely plsatic
18:42:42 benkay: it's holding in super vibrate-y al plates, though.
18:42:51 benkay: those would cut right through plastic over time.
18:43:07 benkay: plus shine, plus no tumble and maintaining the same speed as car...
18:43:10 benkay: makes me think metal.
18:43:11 tg2: here
18:43:16 tg2: you can see, that is exactly what it is
18:43:22 benkay: nigga i know what a pop pin is
18:43:23 tg2: it could be metalic
18:43:46 benkay: i'm marshalling reasons why it might be metallic.
18:43:46 tg2: > bolt holding plates in, mircea_popescu
18:43:48 tg2: clearly
18:43:59 benkay: <tg2> plastic pin that holds that cover on
18:44:00 benkay: <benkay> a!
18:44:05 mircea_popescu: the item in the video doesn't match that jpg
18:44:12 tg2: ^
18:44:21 mike_c: mircea_popescu: three shields, aluminum bar, then titanium shield, then aluminum deflector shield.
18:44:38 mircea_popescu: mike_c all metallic ? impressive
18:44:48 benkay: lipo's, yo.
18:45:08 benkay: crashed a model airplane recently, banana'd a battery.
18:45:17 mircea_popescu: must be some high performance al-cu alloy
18:45:19 mike_c: re: not brissant: " provides another layer of deflection and finally causes the Model S to ramp up and over the object if it is essentially incompressible and immovable"
18:45:21 benkay: going to puncture it on a drunken weekend soon
18:45:49 mike_c: so if it doesn't crumble it causes the car to fly!
18:46:01 tg2: wifes s3 blew up while charging
18:46:03 mircea_popescu: this looks like 2618 level shit.
18:46:11 tg2: like expanded and then blew out
18:46:17 tg2: burnt the nightstand
18:46:30 tg2: next level samsung QC
18:47:14 BingoBoingo: ;;seen vexual
18:47:30 tg2: benkay, just charge it at 5-10x it's C rating
18:47:41 benkay: where's the fun in that, tg2 ?
18:47:51 benkay: 'sides, risky for the charger.
18:47:52 tg2: ok ok shoot it with a firearm
18:47:56 benkay: that's another plan.
18:48:16 benkay: but firearms and booze are not my favorite combo.
18:50:04 the20year2: almost .0075
18:50:06 BingoBoingo: firearms and booze are like cars and booze, best kept well apart from each other in time and space
18:51:01 benkay: !t h rent
18:52:32 benkay: the manip is in, eh, the20year2 ?
18:52:32 the20year2: News
18:52:32 benkay: plan to let your stockholders sell at the same price as your round 2 ipo?
18:52:32 benkay: iplol
18:52:32 the20year2: i haven't had to buy a single share to increase price
18:52:32 moiety: evening
18:52:32 benkay: totally, man.
18:52:32 benkay: lo mo
18:52:32 kakobrekla: how cum the ticker aint working, this aint right.
18:52:32 benkay: !t m s.mpoe
18:52:32 benkay: !mp
18:52:32 benkay: !help
18:52:41 BingoBoingo: !t h COG
18:54:11 kakobrekla: nothing.
18:54:11 benkay: testing...
18:54:11 kakobrekla: lol
18:54:11 benkay: testing in production....
18:54:11 benkay: assbarf
18:54:11 mike_c: assbot is trying to catch up to mp's line count
18:54:11 kakobrekla: havelock api is down
18:54:11 kakobrekla: or they changed ips
18:54:11 kakobrekla: or something
18:54:11 BingoBoingo: Scam
18:54:11 kakobrekla: ping topace
18:54:11 benkay: he's not involved any more, kakobrekla
18:54:11 benkay: GOSH
18:54:11 kakobrekla: lel
18:54:11 kakobrekla: but he is their sys admin
18:54:11 kakobrekla: afaik?
18:54:11 topace: pong
18:54:13 kakobrekla: something wrong wit the api?
18:54:23 kakobrekla: lol assbot
18:54:28 topace: did the IP change ?
18:54:33 topace: you had me change the hostname
18:54:37 topace: but i figured it was the same IP
18:54:46 topace: if the IP changed, then i need to modify firewall
18:54:52 kakobrekla: its the same ip
18:55:02 moiety: assbot has diarrhoea?
18:55:03 kakobrekla: lets take this to private
18:55:10 topace: k
18:55:26 BingoBoingo: !t m MNKY
18:55:44 moiety: lolol
18:56:37 topace: !ticker h rent
18:56:50 kakobrekla: dafuk
18:56:56 moiety: ;; later tell mircea_popescu a turtle surfing seal pup?! lolol
18:57:00 kakobrekla: !t h rent
18:57:06 kakobrekla: what is this nao
18:57:11 kakobrekla: benkay you are broked
18:57:29 benkay: i r broked?
18:57:35 benkay: !t h rent
18:58:07 kakobrekla: anyway, where were we
18:58:10 kakobrekla: wheelbarrows!
18:59:08 BingoBoingo: !t h COG
18:59:49 benkay: !l h rent
19:00:08 mike_c: holee shit. michael abrash is joining carmack at oculus. amazing.
19:00:16 mike_c: indeed assbot.
19:00:34 mircea_popescu: which one is michael abrash
19:00:50 mircea_popescu: noob moiety sending later tits to present people.
19:01:04 moiety: i didnt know you were here
19:01:22 moiety: i need to read all ze log before responding
19:02:09 mircea_popescu: all zeee logs!
19:03:19 benkay: vile hdr
19:03:32 mircea_popescu: nice feet tho.
19:03:59 tg2: that's how you get ants
19:04:18 moiety: not so keen on that one iono why
19:04:29 BingoBoingo: www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/28/fundraiser-resolved/
19:04:30 joecool: hdr, throwin up rainbows now, thx
19:05:26 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo o hey, wd.
19:05:35 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thanks
19:06:08 BingoBoingo: Everyone is free to guess at the identity of the generous soul
19:06:34 moiety: ace stuff BingoBoingo :D
19:07:20 mike_c: mircea_popescu: carmack and abrash were the talent & brains behind id software (doom,quake)
19:08:04 ozbot: UNDERVIEW: Photo
19:08:28 tg2: this is a nice curated collection
19:08:29 ozbot: UNDERVIEW
19:09:20 tg2: storage:/storage 307T 252T 56T 82% /storage
19:09:24 tg2: fk gotta add more space
19:09:35 tg2: my porn collection knows no bounds
19:23:48 KRS-One: heh
19:23:54 KRS-One: .bait
19:31:20 tg2: ;;ident
19:32:08 tg2: .bait
19:32:23 tg2: ozbot help
19:32:30 BingoBoingo: .help
19:32:30 ozbot: All commands can be processed in channel or in PM
19:32:30 ozbot: Commands: .bait .count .diff .earn .exchange .nethash .rates .lcrates .tslb
19:32:53 tg2: possible to populate bait?
19:33:18 BingoBoingo: tg2: Post to tumbler?
19:33:32 tg2: tags?
19:33:49 mike_c: michael lewis' new book is about hft traders. should be interesting. (lewis=liar's poker, moneyball, the big short)
19:34:32 mircea_popescu: mike_c who was the guy with the katana ?
19:34:53 BingoBoingo: Richard Stallman?
19:35:31 mike_c: don't know, don't think it was lewis
19:35:36 mircea_popescu: nono, worked with those two, ended up making a game company which burned through 10mn of 1990s dollars to make some katana game
19:35:49 mircea_popescu: which never got made. largest vaporware story in gaming.
19:35:53 benkay: stephenson
19:36:05 mircea_popescu: Daikatana!
19:36:10 mircea_popescu: John Romero
19:36:23 mike_c: vaporware video game must be duke nukem
19:36:28 mircea_popescu: he was the third man at id, but apparently got erased.
19:36:37 benkay: ;;ticker
19:37:32 tg2: "Flash Boys" is the name of the book
19:38:03 tg2: I just want to read some shit about through-earth data transmission
19:38:13 tg2: and i'm sure HFT will be the first place it shows up lol
19:40:29 mike_c: BingoBoingo: it was kako.
19:41:35 mike_c: easy blockchain sniffing.
19:43:37 mike_c: not like the other day when you posted that md4 challenge and i almost fried my graphics card trying to crack it.
19:44:01 tg2: fucking ebay - i searched for lipo batteries ONCE, literally 1 session in the last year
19:44:09 tg2: my hompage is now full of rc cars
19:44:16 tg2: order $100k of surplus servers
19:44:20 tg2: not even 1 server on there
19:44:41 tg2: solid graph ebay
19:47:46 the20year2: Sweet, .008
19:48:07 mike_c: now the ipo is underpriced!
19:48:14 mike_c: "i"po
19:48:33 the20year2: crap, i was wrong, it was displaying asks, granted there's only about 25 shares between .0075 and .008
20:00:13 ozbot: bramcohen: Freenode sucks
20:00:15 mircea_popescu: lulzy butthurt
20:02:07 benkay: how ams even identity
20:06:59 mircea_popescu: and since we're on it,
20:07:01 ozbot: Freenode - Encyclopedia Dramatica
20:11:12 pLambert: what's going on with NEOBEE, why are they stopped trading?
20:11:36 mircea_popescu: it ticked a minunte ago, what stopped ?
20:11:57 pLambert: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=NEOBEE says trading is stopped
20:13:09 mircea_popescu: well they didn't announce it or anything.
20:13:29 pLambert: I think that is their method of announcement?
20:13:34 mircea_popescu: possibly butthurt over having shed 50% over a week and well... yet another one of those great "half your money in half a year" glbse-style things.
20:13:49 mircea_popescu: pLambert i guess it must be.
20:14:12 pLambert: is ThickAsTheives still the pass-through manager for this one?
20:14:24 mircea_popescu: pt from where to where ?
20:14:37 pLambert: from direct shares to Havelock
20:15:11 pLambert: "Havelock Investments has been formally informed by the Pass-Through Fund Manager" <-- that guy
20:16:54 pankkake: yes, he is
20:16:58 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you actually managing neobee on hl ?
20:17:03 ozbot: Keybase.io vulnerability
20:18:45 mircea_popescu: funny when the first time some webservice is taken seriously by someone
20:18:53 mircea_popescu: is simply to describe how pointless and broken it is
20:20:00 mike_c: i get cloudflare errors 75% of the time i try to go to havelock.
20:20:25 tg2: who's sysadmining over there?
20:20:26 pankkake: such protection
20:21:06 tg2: L2webscale
20:23:11 tg2: re: rent -> The median purchase price for one single-family freestanding residential home in our areas of business stands at approximately $37,500.
20:23:24 tg2: > The majority of these kinds of homes will rent for $700 per month
20:23:31 ThickAsThieves: I am no longer involved with LMB/Neo
20:23:31 tg2: right
20:23:44 mircea_popescu: benkay check it out, @benkay is nao more famous than you are https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/449585590187880448
20:23:54 ThickAsThieves: You'll need to contact Neo/LMB or Danny for any other info
20:24:13 pankkake: :o
20:24:20 benkay: wasn't via me, tho mircea_popescu, was it?
20:24:33 pLambert: then who is the Pass Through Fund Manager now?
20:25:19 ThickAsThieves: LMB would be the only party with power over it
20:25:27 benkay: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2014&bots=true#588733
20:25:32 mircea_popescu: no, it was via stan.
20:25:50 pLambert: is it really a pass-through if the company is running it themself?
20:25:50 benkay: also twitter fame?
20:25:53 benkay: i think that i'll pass.
20:26:13 benkay: i'm not out of retirement yet, free to troll silicon valley all day.
20:26:27 benkay: shit i ain't even sufficiently well capitalized to go *into* retirement yet!
20:26:32 ThickAsThieves: the offering was always under the control of Neo, any role I was a part of was as an independent contractor
20:26:42 ThickAsThieves: sorry LMB, not Neo, technically
20:26:45 benkay: although Survant James hit a milestone recently - we now have eight full months of runway in the bank at current rates.
20:26:46 tg2: was anyone notable using zorro aes anywya lol
20:26:58 benkay: *fist pump after fist pump after fist pump*
20:27:15 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2014#526060
20:27:18 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
20:27:28 mircea_popescu: tg2 no.
20:27:32 benkay: lol "much as goat is not related to pirate"
20:27:34 tg2: fk a guy I fired is making 170k/yr at amazon now :'9
20:27:41 tg2: how is this even possible
20:27:49 tg2: silicon valley, pls
20:27:53 benkay: tg2: aws only hires the fired
20:28:03 benkay: nobody else is taking those jaeorbs
20:28:15 mircea_popescu: benkay i still don't get what the relation is supposed to have been. just that the guy can't stfu ?
20:28:49 benkay: was goat not a pirate pass through operator?
20:28:57 mircea_popescu: no, goat part is clear. tat/neobee part
20:28:59 pLambert: yes, he was the biggest
20:29:37 benkay: goat me
20:29:47 benkay: was not tat originally affiliated with n/b?
20:30:16 mircea_popescu: well that's what im looking for.
20:30:33 benkay: you're the one with researchers on staff.
20:30:37 benkay: GET IT ON STAFF
20:30:43 tg2: FOLLOWERS: 14
20:30:46 tg2: quality over quantity I suppose
20:30:48 pLambert: was neobee using TAT as a way to get into the community? I feel like there were scammers that did something similar before?
20:30:50 ThickAsThieves: benkay it would depend on your definition of affliated
20:30:58 Apocalyptic: benkay, what's your relation to the paper ?
20:31:00 benkay: B=====D
20:31:06 benkay: ^^ staff
20:31:33 mircea_popescu: benkay actually that log link is quite epic.
20:31:36 mircea_popescu: it's all coming back to me.
20:31:45 mircea_popescu: "Feb 24 21:08:44 <mircea_popescu> what's going on in your head ? "
20:31:56 BingoBoingo: benkay: Is that php?
20:32:24 ThickAsThieves: pLambert I'm not clear to line of your questioning as it seems somewhat speculative, but as I mentioned, the relationship from the start was a contractual one between separate parties
20:32:27 mircea_popescu: so actually tat had some sort of ipo-coupon asset (xbond) which ipo-couponed neo, and then he was running the neobee hl asset.
20:32:33 bounce: no, the more advanced facebook "hack" variety
20:32:36 mircea_popescu: so now ThickAsThieves when exactly did you stop running it ?
20:32:38 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
20:32:46 benkay: ThickAsThieves:i have a contract with Neo
20:33:11 benkay: BingoBoingo: phpenis
20:33:45 BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: You ever start that blag
20:34:29 ThickAsThieves: mp, I think all I can really say at this time is that you'd need to contact LMB for more info.
20:34:46 mircea_popescu: no, im contacting you for more info.
20:34:47 benkay: see that's the kinda thing that tars you with the LMB brush, ThickAsThieves
20:34:56 mircea_popescu: so, you were running an asset. why aren;'t you announcing it stopped trading, if it did
20:35:09 mircea_popescu: and why arent you announcing you're no longer running it and who is now running it, if you aren't.
20:35:14 mircea_popescu: what the hell is this, havelockism ?!
20:35:24 pankkake: :(
20:36:44 pLambert: TAT, when did you stop running the pass-through?
20:38:09 ozbot: Park Slope Kids Salon: Stop Calling Your Wifi "LuLu's Anal Bleaching"
20:39:40 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possibilities for beautiful names are limitless. 'NSAPenalBattalion'.
20:40:30 asciilifeform: ('NSAShtrafbat' for the culturally literate)
20:40:33 BingoBoingo: I remember flipping my Wifi'sname back and forth between Skynet and John Conner for some time
20:40:52 benkay: mine is surveillancevan97***
20:42:12 mircea_popescu: NSAnalButtLion
20:42:43 mike_c: hm. Neobee halts trading, TaT is running from it.. guess this is one is diving into the dead pool.
20:43:36 pankkake: cease to be traded… temporarily?
20:43:57 mike_c: i don't think temporarily counts, but it sounds like it will be permanent soon to me.
20:44:52 mircea_popescu: not looking terribly good.
20:45:02 benkay: let the mods figure it out.
20:45:23 mircea_popescu: how the fuck some "company" slash "ceo" that can spend enough to mediabuy a small mediteranean island can't get their corp comms in working order is beyond comprehension.
20:45:25 mircea_popescu: only in bitcoin
20:46:00 mircea_popescu: somehow nobody goes to conferences tro say "hay! we're so fucking retarded, you wouldn't believe!"
20:46:19 pLambert: yeah, looks like the bet should resolve to "Yes" even for a temporary halt of trading?
20:47:02 mike_c: i don't think that's the spirit of the bet, but i don't think it matters.
20:47:39 benkay: if there were actual btc on the line, the mod who approved it might get a caning
20:47:50 BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
20:48:05 pLambert: And Herp sees the trade stopping as a good thing: "This was probably a good move due to all the manipulation. Spamtroll manipulators had a field day recently while Neo was busy elsewhere." https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529946.msg5956564#msg5956564
20:48:29 pankkake: yeah that made me WTF too
20:49:05 mircea_popescu: busy... elsewhere ?
20:49:15 pLambert: wait, we are the same person, pankkake, right? Why am I talking to myself?
20:49:30 mircea_popescu: kids wanna accounting-fraud their own books (which they don't keep anyway) and woe unto anyone getting in their way.
20:49:43 pankkake: :). the actual crumbs is talking to itself on the forums quite often
20:49:59 BingoBoingo: As the asshole who wrote that BitBet my though was havecocks not lasting through the end of the year
20:50:27 benkay: they're under no real pressure
20:50:39 benkay: they skim off trades, and delist when things start looking shady
20:50:41 ThickAsThieves: In case any of you missed it, Havelock has shared that "the compliance officer of Neo and Bee Ltd has stated that due to an increase of abnormal activity on the LMB share platform, there may be a high possibility of questionable trading activity. While Neo and Bee Ltd investigate the issue further they have strongly recommended that we halt trading and transfers."
20:51:02 neilol: ^^ it's inconclusive
20:51:16 neilol: and to anyone saying TAT is running from this... he stepped down weeks ago
20:51:25 benkay: ;;gettrust neilol
20:51:37 benkay: and who are you, neilol ?
20:51:42 mircea_popescu: wait what ?!
20:52:13 ThickAsThieves: neilol, please don't speak for me
20:52:18 mircea_popescu: benkay has it basically. skim while fools flock, delist once it goes to shit, the glbse v2.0
20:52:21 mircea_popescu: higher admin effort.
20:52:29 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
20:52:39 ThickAsThieves: i appreciate the effort, but you do not have facts
20:52:43 velacreations: when did TAT step down and why wasn't shareholders notified?
20:52:56 psterryl: could it be that btcapples guy who did tons of off-market trades between LMB and Havelock?
20:52:58 benkay: velacreations: see the link of mike_c 's
20:53:02 mircea_popescu: mike_c that's the asicminer stuff neh ?
20:53:06 mike_c: 23:39:35ThickAsThieves:NEOBEE is not changing operators.
20:53:11 HeySteve: hey velacreations, enjoyed your aquaponics work
20:53:12 Diablo-D3: velacreations: awhile back, and they were.
20:53:21 jurov: velacreations: paranormal activity
20:53:44 jurov: TaT was snatched by aliens
20:54:02 mircea_popescu: so wait... neobee asked havelock to halt trading because *neobee* suspects there's insider trading going on ?
20:54:02 pankkake: Diablo-D3: you must be confusing with AsicMiner
20:54:06 jurov: and subjected to hyperadvanced rectothermal technology
20:54:27 velacreations: they were, funny, I am not seeing anything pertaining to NEOBEE in that link
20:54:31 mircea_popescu: basically what happened here, the cfo ran off with a block of shares ?
20:54:31 Diablo-D3: pankkake: might be?
20:54:42 neilol: Jesus - sorry, not speaking for you TAT, didn't realize it was actually a sensitive issue
20:54:44 velacreations: that is AM, and TAT clearly says NEOBEE isn't affected
20:55:00 neilol: just a few uninformed not paying attention
20:55:21 mircea_popescu: neilol who are ye ?
20:55:37 neilol: depends on what you mean
20:55:40 neilol: no one by most accounts
20:55:41 neilol: probably
20:55:43 ThickAsThieves: the contract with LMB and our services was officially terminated today, initiated by me
20:56:19 mike_c: so you are the one who ran away with shares?? (j/k)
20:56:24 ThickAsThieves: no
20:56:34 Duffer1: every ending, new beginning etc..
20:56:37 neilol: oh internets
20:56:42 mircea_popescu: yes well as general practice, the underwriter of a stock can't just quit, they have to leave the stock to be shepherded by someone else.
20:56:48 psterryl: has there been a hack as some people are suggesting?
20:56:53 mircea_popescu: i suppose in this case, since it's stopped trading anyway it's kind-of moot.
20:57:22 ThickAsThieves: mp, the current manager would now be LMB
20:57:33 velacreations: exactly, MP, how does a fund manager just "quit" without notifying the fund?
20:58:16 mircea_popescu: velacreations well, apparently he just has notified it.
20:58:35 ThickAsThieves: the PT was always run under the authorization of LMB
20:59:06 velacreations: mp, what I mean is that he has (in the past) given advanced notice, and it was sent on official channels, like the exchange, company website, fund thread, etc
20:59:15 Diablo-D3: Hrm.
20:59:16 Diablo-D3: Hey guys.
20:59:19 benkay: ThickAsThieves: would you clearsign and pastebin something to the effect of "I am no longer affiliated with Neobee, your next point of contact is thus and such."?
20:59:29 Diablo-D3: I want you to prove I should accept Bitcoin for my business.
20:59:43 benkay: you shouldn't.
20:59:45 ThickAsThieves: benkay, is that not evident otherwise?
20:59:54 benkay: it'd be a nice precedent.
21:00:04 jurov: ^ tat, i agree
21:00:07 benkay: i could put it on my blog
21:00:11 ThickAsThieves: no problem
21:00:11 Diablo-D3: think if I start a forum thread, in dollars
21:00:15 benkay: thanks, man.
21:00:16 Diablo-D3: with a coupon code thats like
21:00:21 Diablo-D3: "votebitcoin"
21:00:41 Diablo-D3: and say there has to be 25 uses of the code
21:00:51 Diablo-D3: before Ill accept bitcoin
21:00:51 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves can't hurt anything
21:00:53 Diablo-D3: people would do it?
21:00:54 mircea_popescu: ;;ident ThickAsThieves
21:01:07 jurov: Diablo-D3: what's ur bsnss? hosting?
21:01:23 Diablo-D3: jurov: exelion.net
21:01:24 ThickAsThieves: gimme a few mins to auth and sign message
21:01:29 ljack: hello all
21:01:31 benkay: thanks, TAT
21:01:41 mircea_popescu: velacreations this chan is the gazette of record of all bitcoin asset matters, but that aside i agree it's not convenient for various investors etc to not get info in whatever channels and forms they prefer.
21:02:30 jurov: Diablo-D3: US only?
21:03:15 velacreations: mp, it's not convenient when "official news" has traditionally been given through other means
21:03:25 mircea_popescu: i see it.
21:03:27 ljack: I hate that I missed your announcement TAT, is there any chance you will be posting it in a public place besides here?
21:03:28 Diablo-D3: jurov: only Dallas location atm.
21:03:38 benkay: ljack: i'll host it too.
21:04:50 BingoBoingo: Oh, the whole forum is showing up
21:05:09 ljack: lol, i never use irc. until today.
21:05:21 benkay: welcome ljack this is where the biz actually transpires.
21:05:51 ljack: i see now; ill know better in the future
21:06:02 ThickAsThieves: no one "missed" any announcement, so far as the asset was halted beforehand anyway
21:06:22 ThickAsThieves: i'm bcverified now btw
21:06:27 ThickAsThieves: feel free to check
21:06:32 benkay: ;;ident ThickAsThieves
21:06:34 ThickAsThieves: my gpg is tied to the same
21:06:35 ljack: wasnt trying to insult; just read on the forums that you were no longer involved, was seeking clarification
21:06:43 benkay: would you clearsign a statement that I can host please, ThickAsThieves ?
21:06:54 ThickAsThieves: please clarify "clearsign:
21:06:55 ThickAsThieves: "
21:07:01 benkay: gpg clearsign
21:07:10 ljack: I purchased some of the btcapples shares, concerned about the authenticity of them
21:07:16 benkay: or bitcoin sign a message
21:07:23 ThickAsThieves: k
21:07:23 benkay: sorta the same thing (sorta)
21:07:40 jurov: the text would be "I was notified of paranormal activity and decided to blabla"
21:07:49 benkay: paranormlol
21:08:13 velacreations: of course the whole forum is here, they want to hear the news
21:08:23 ljack: I dont mind them freezing it; just want to know I didnt get burned. Guys claims they are legit though
21:08:28 neoncillo: aliens always ruining nice things, first egiptians, then mayans, now neobee
21:08:34 ljack: GreenBits from the forums btw
21:08:43 mircea_popescu: benkay you can host what ?!
21:08:50 benkay: text.
21:09:02 mircea_popescu: you mean the chan log ?!
21:09:03 artifexd: While I expect that TAT will only issue an "I am no longer affiliated" type statement, adding a reason why would be nice.
21:09:17 benkay: are you not reading logs today mircea_popescu ?
21:09:25 mircea_popescu: artifexd i sort-of suspect he'd have said it by now if he perceived he could.
21:09:37 mircea_popescu: benkay i am! what!
21:09:39 artifexd: Hence my expectation
21:09:42 benkay: i want a gpg signed thing!
21:09:42 neoncillo: artifexd, +1
21:09:45 benkay: logs are insufficient.
21:10:02 jurov: that's why the paranormal suggestion
21:10:02 ljack: Yeah, I dont expect to hear the whole of it
21:10:08 asciilifeform: as someone quite far from all of this, i still find it interesting just how much of the '2011 bitcoin' world is still chugging along.
21:10:08 mircea_popescu: benkay no i get that part, but once he signs a gpg statement what do you need permission to host it for ?
21:10:16 asciilifeform: does the chumpatronium never run out?
21:10:27 benkay: i don't need permission to host it
21:10:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stuff is hard.
21:10:46 benkay: i'm asking for a thing that stands on its own.
21:10:46 asciilifeform: how hard is it to simply sit on coin?
21:10:56 mircea_popescu: "<benkay> would you clearsign a statement that I can host please" read to me that you want him to permit you to host it in writing lol.
21:11:02 mircea_popescu: i see what you actually meant nao
21:11:03 benkay: bah no sir
21:11:07 mike_c: asciilifeform: facebook has over 1 billion users. chumpatron will never run out of fuel.
21:11:08 mircea_popescu: seemed so fucking weird lol
21:11:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform question of mothers towards their young sons that got a girl pregnant, since forever :
21:11:43 mircea_popescu: "how hard is it to just sit on that cock!!1"
21:11:47 *: chatquack stumbles in
21:11:50 asciilifeform: lol
21:11:59 ThickAsThieves: Address: 1NfXM69erAWPDdNrZ2k2UkuV7HDPc6Ebwk
21:12:09 jurov: !b 4
21:12:09 mircea_popescu: daugthers, idem
21:12:32 mike_c: !b 8
21:12:33 ThickAsThieves: Message:
21:12:42 benkay: ThickAsThieves: pastebin?
21:12:48 ThickAsThieves: sure
21:12:50 ThickAsThieves: sec
21:13:02 jurov: TaT wants to get bashed :D
21:13:44 asciilifeform: phacebook luserbase might pay with anal virginity, but at least they're not spending actual money
21:14:05 mircea_popescu: seems a dubious consolation.
21:14:22 neoncillo: bitcoin/actual money, pick one
21:14:27 asciilifeform: i'm just trying to wrap my puny brain around the conundrum of why 'havelock' etc. still exist
21:14:29 benkay: a little anal always consoles me.
21:14:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's easy.
21:15:02 mircea_popescu: you know, like coloring books, nobody says they shouldn't exist, just, they should exist in a much more fucking responseible fashion
21:15:38 benkay: thanks, ThickAsThieves
21:16:11 mike_c: well, one way it existed until now is TaT fronted five of the funds. now he's down to zero.
21:16:36 frenchie: so you initiated the termination of your contract with neo for what reasons ?
21:16:50 mircea_popescu: mike_c which means some eager young fellow full of hope and good intentions is about to show up
21:17:01 asciilifeform: just feels like a mindfuck to wander into, e.g. leningrad hermitage and see... colouring books.
21:17:04 artifexd: ThickAsThieves Can you tell us when was the last time you had any direct communication with Danny?
21:17:35 mircea_popescu: like this fellow : https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/449558141525827584
21:17:40 ThickAsThieves: I last spoke with Danny on March 21, 2014
21:17:57 GreenBits: Im not too concerned this is a cut and run, too much capital invested at this point. But that is interesting TAT
21:18:05 mike_c: xapo will fix all these problems. they bury shit in a mountain.
21:18:08 kanzure: even if everyting is okay it is probably a good idea to terminate
21:18:09 artifexd: ty
21:18:22 kanzure: because communication channels can be compromised
21:18:32 asciilifeform: do they also bury the user in the mountain?
21:18:39 asciilifeform: you know, the fellow with the password
21:18:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mostly, their head.
21:18:48 mircea_popescu: it's just big enough to fit in a mountain.
21:19:00 mike_c: no no ascii, they have "layer on layer" of security. it'll be fine.
21:19:16 mircea_popescu: mike_c aaa, but was it built from the ground up with a cock in mind ?
21:19:19 kanzure: ThickAsThieves: were the terms of your contract public?
21:19:21 mircea_popescu: wait no that's not how it went
21:19:29 asciilifeform: when do we get a mountain for burial of pgp keys?
21:19:52 benkay: it's called keybase.io, asciilifeform .
21:19:56 GreenBits: May I ask if this lack of communication contributed to your decision?
21:19:57 benkay: js-secure!
21:19:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform itd be a pretty korean thing to do, you know ? buy a mountain, sculpt the faces of great bitcoin jesuses all around, have a light at the top to represent satoshi...
21:20:05 ThickAsThieves: kanzure, no they were not
21:20:45 frenchie: TAT: can you disclose what motivated your decision to terminate the contract ?
21:20:46 kasa32: ThickAsThieves - what made you terminate the agreement since you spoke with Danny on 21st?
21:21:00 kasa32: you had no recent communication with him
21:21:15 mircea_popescu: frenchie kasa32 this is in the log.
21:21:39 kasa32: he didn't say
21:21:49 mike_c: he said he wouldn't say.
21:21:50 mircea_popescu: no, he didn't, but he was asked.
21:21:54 asciilifeform: re: the mountain: it would at least begin to make sense if the people involved provided an actual service - say, they hold keys and try to verify that you are the meatbag the key belonged to when you walk into an anal probe chamber
21:22:03 asciilifeform: but afaik this is not what is happening
21:22:17 mircea_popescu: "try to" is not an actual service
21:22:31 asciilifeform: well i said 'begin to' make sense, rather than 'makes sense'
21:22:39 mircea_popescu: hehe that you did
21:22:59 benkay: is NeoBee under the authority of Cypriot or EU banking regulators?
21:23:20 asciilifeform: the way that a child drawing a stick figure in mud 'begins to make sense', but a drunken hippie taking a shit onto a canvas doesn't
21:23:30 neoncillo: I think it's not since bitcoin is not money in the EU
21:23:31 mircea_popescu: benkay cyprus uses the euro. there's no such distinction really.
21:23:44 benkay: didn't think so. wiser heads, etc.
21:25:41 jurov: benkay sure it is. they do work with euros
21:26:06 jurov: bitcoins are supposed to be mostly the backing
21:26:19 benkay: the scam contention being that there's no way they can actually resist a haircut.
21:26:20 ThickAsThieves: The basic reason is that, with my role being largely to facilitate transfers, I could not perform my contract without guarantee it would not make me party to the trading activity under investigation. As mentioned, Neo also recommended halting all such activity as well.
21:26:40 asciilifeform: how do the mountain people decide whom to disgorge a key to?
21:27:00 mircea_popescu: that's the problem, they can't really.
21:27:15 dexX7: investigation - what timespan?
21:27:15 asciilifeform: maybe i'm thick, but it seems to reduce to a poor version of 'brainwallet' but with a 'priest'
21:27:26 mike_c: it's a sequence of steps. layers.
21:27:37 mike_c: "we’ll use multiple security layers to verify that you have authorized the request. This will initiate a sequence of secure steps to get your requested bitcoins transferred to your wallet within 24 hours."
21:27:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, just like true love reduces to you waiting ouside the door while they do it.
21:27:56 ThickAsThieves: dexX7 I do not understand your question, but it's unlikely I have any timelines to offer at this time
21:28:27 mircea_popescu: lol@forum doing irc liveblogging
21:28:44 mircea_popescu: must suck to be stuck on the shittier platform, eh ?
21:28:55 mircea_popescu: such web. much 2.0.
21:29:04 jurov: asciilifeform maybe there's nice little sauna near the summit
21:29:07 asciilifeform: how does mountain corp. decide which 'you' is you ?
21:29:09 jurov: designated secure
21:29:13 kanzure: you're saying i should be grateful for irc? that's a funny one
21:29:32 deadweasel: are you not?
21:29:48 kanzure: i'll answer as soon as i'm done netsplitting
21:30:21 mircea_popescu: let's not be splitting the nets.
21:30:30 frenchie: thanks TAT, what's your best guess at what's happening ?
21:30:47 ThickAsThieves: frenchie, ask LMB/Neo
21:31:21 mircea_popescu: who was it that said she had called but then nobody picked up ?
21:31:22 frenchie: well that would be too easy
21:31:27 mircea_popescu: o the reuters gal.
21:32:23 velacreations: @ThickAsThieves how long have you known about the suspicious trading issues?
21:33:04 mircea_popescu: velacreations irc highlights people when you mention their name, no need for @s and stuff.
21:34:25 asciilifeform: the 'store btc as service' folks make my brain hurt. it's as if there were suddenly chains of mega-restaurants where they pre-chew food
21:34:32 asciilifeform: and everyone seems to be eager to visit
21:35:08 asciilifeform: proposing that people who can't remember keys can function in civilization seems like an especially cruel lie
21:35:44 mircea_popescu: i can't remember my key, what are you on about. 4096 bits, srsly ?
21:35:49 mike_c: well, i think the service is more for those that can't secure their keys.
21:35:51 asciilifeform: not key per se
21:35:55 asciilifeform: but the key to the key
21:35:57 mircea_popescu: aha! BUT!
21:36:07 mircea_popescu: this already means you're using SOMETHING to remember your key, yes ?
21:36:20 asciilifeform: most people can remember enough key to make keeping some physical thing or other a reasonable proposition
21:36:39 asciilifeform: and, for things one can't remember (e.g. gold, disk of warez) one can remember a hiding place
21:36:54 asciilifeform: seems like a basic biological function
21:37:09 mircea_popescu: store btc as a service, if done right (like say bc.info used to do it) has its places. you go to trade some btc in ny central park, you take a blockchain url with you.
21:37:13 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> can you tell us more about the letter you received from US authorities?
21:37:40 mircea_popescu: kasa32 the whole thing's published, http://fraudsters.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/
21:38:04 kasa32: did they issue more veiled threats?
21:38:07 kasa32: since then
21:38:12 velacreations: mircea_popescu thanks, is there a way to reference their name just by clicking on it, or do I have to type it out every time?
21:38:29 asciilifeform: interestingly, it is quite feasible to memorize 4096 bits
21:38:31 mike_c: velacreations: tab-completion.
21:38:32 mircea_popescu: for instance right now to have it spit out velacreations i type out vel and hit tab
21:38:34 asciilifeform: just has to be done correctly
21:38:35 mircea_popescu: you need a client for it tho
21:38:38 asciilifeform: stage magicians do it all the time
21:38:56 asciilifeform: 'mnemonists'
21:38:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wouldn't want it in my memory anyway.
21:39:10 velacreations: thanks guys
21:39:29 asciilifeform: when i was a student, i tried to work out a way to crank reasonably-heavy rsa mentally.
21:39:42 asciilifeform: a la Trachtenberg's arithmetic
21:40:07 mircea_popescu: i wonder if there actually exists an irc client w/o autocompletion
21:40:08 asciilifeform: (trachtenberg was a mathematically-inclined fellow who ended up in auschwitz)
21:40:24 tg2: Pi to 1k only takes a few days
21:40:51 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> are you afraid about US taking legal action? can they bring you to US to testify?
21:40:51 asciilifeform: 'how i need a drink, alcoholic of course, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics.'
21:40:54 tg2: and then repeat every 2x the previous time frame
21:41:09 asciilifeform: now everyone here will remember 15 digits, for life.
21:41:20 tg2: Sec can't do much out of the us
21:42:00 kanzure: asciilifeform: yes i'm sure there's someone, somewhere, doing rsa in head
21:42:04 ozbot: Havelock Freezes NEOBEE Trading, ThickAsThieves Steps Down as Fund Manager
21:42:23 *: bounce basically never uses autocompletion. currently maybe not even bound to a key.
21:42:31 *: benkay goes back to building docker images
21:42:38 asciilifeform: mental rsa would be the ultimate in authentication.
21:42:46 asciilifeform: even if not for encipherment
21:42:58 mircea_popescu: kasa32 these are civil proceedings.
21:43:10 tg2: Well, as long as babikian is still hanging out without reprimand
21:43:21 benkay: jurov: a link to my post there would be neat
21:43:31 kanzure: benkay: do you use plover to build docker stuff
21:43:40 tg2: After frauding billions in penny stocks
21:44:00 benkay: ;;google plover docker
21:44:00 tg2: I wouldn't be worried about SEC asking for info
21:44:11 bounce: rsa gets impractical quickly on paper, much less mentally. might look into that crypto by pack of cards thing though.
21:44:12 mircea_popescu: benkay if they're not dockers, they're just pants.
21:44:13 kanzure: benkay: plover is like veewee except less awful
21:44:20 kanzure: benkay: the box builder automation stuff
21:44:40 benkay: kanzure: link me?
21:44:41 asciilifeform: bounce: you'd want something like 'napier's bones'
21:44:42 kanzure: bounce: do you have a link for that?
21:44:54 kanzure: benkay: i dunno, http://mmckeen.net/blog/2013/12/27/advanced-docker-provisioning-with-packer/
21:45:01 mircea_popescu: kanzure you the comedy central guy ?
21:45:09 benkay: kanzure: packer you mean
21:45:24 bounce: I'd have to dig
21:45:25 kanzure: mircea_popescu: huh? probably not. i don't know who you are referring to.
21:45:33 mircea_popescu: a bryan bishop fellow.
21:45:38 kanzure: benkay: that link is a good one for explaining it
21:45:40 asciilifeform: wait, bishop?
21:45:52 kanzure: mircea_popescu: interesting. there's a few people showing up with my name. i want them gone.
21:45:59 kanzure: mircea_popescu: there's also this person from theverge with my name.. sigh.
21:46:02 asciilifeform: kanzure: i think you used to work with a chum of mine from uni
21:46:07 mircea_popescu: well iirc this guy had some sort of cancer, so you might get your wish
21:46:08 benkay: kanzure: nope. clients don't need all that.
21:46:10 bounce: breaking mirrors is bad luck, don't you know
21:46:10 asciilifeform: kanzure: mike w.
21:46:17 kanzure: asciilifeform: nice, wittig?
21:46:22 asciilifeform: him!
21:46:23 asciilifeform: ol
21:46:24 asciilifeform: lol
21:46:24 mircea_popescu: lol
21:46:46 mircea_popescu: "come to -assets. only a coupla hundred people here, but you probably have friends in common"
21:46:48 kanzure: asciilifeform: that was a long time ago
21:46:53 kanzure: asciilifeform: 2008
21:46:54 asciilifeform: yeah
21:47:08 kanzure: asciilifeform: and they didn't put me on the paper anyway
21:48:14 asciilifeform: kanzure: chemical modelling?
21:49:04 bounce: oh right, "solitaire (cipher)", bruce schneier vehicle for the cryptonomicon
21:49:21 kanzure: asciilifeform: dna logic gate stuff
21:49:23 asciilifeform: kanzure: you still in that business?
21:49:38 kanzure: asciilifeform: i moved into non-academic garage biology stuff
21:50:01 asciilifeform: good move
21:50:29 mircea_popescu: gotta save that one for when anyone asks what's in my fridge.
21:50:29 kanzure: see ##hplusroadmap
21:50:36 kanzure: projects like http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/fbi-diybio-dna-v1.pdf
21:52:14 asciilifeform: kanzure: neato. once worked with the 'abi 394' pictured on the 8th slide.
21:52:18 ozbot: Zurich 2016: First "Cybathlon" is fine with "technology doping" | Ars Technica
21:52:26 kanzure: asciilifeform: terrible piles of crap, aren't they?
21:52:30 asciilifeform: quite!
21:52:48 kanzure: there's no good reason these machines should cost so much
21:52:58 asciilifeform: the plexiglass one - how are you pumping? SAW resonator?
21:53:00 kanzure: if machine price goes down then synthesis costs can be tweaked
21:53:09 kanzure: well that was an old presentation
21:53:14 kanzure: i've since determined that microfluidics is not the best way for now
21:53:35 kanzure: ideally you should limit the number of stupid-hard problems you are solving simultaneously..
21:53:58 asciilifeform: how is microfluidics a hard problem?
21:54:16 kanzure: well to do dna synthesis on the scale that i want it, you need hundreds or thousands of microfluidic gates
21:54:29 kanzure: and then you need to bother with photolithography and all sorts of other issues
21:54:32 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> US has authority to arrest you and bring you to the US. They have done this before. Just check Liberty Reserve incident
21:54:37 asciilifeform: slide deck must be ancient. co2 laser for 10,000 ?
21:54:57 kanzure: hah
21:55:00 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> you may want to prepare yourself for that scenario
21:55:02 asciilifeform: 1990s?
21:55:10 kanzure: that might have been for a new laser
21:55:21 asciilifeform: it's ~1k today
21:55:32 kanzure: it's entirely possible that i suck at sourcing
21:55:56 asciilifeform: the only way to get good at sourcing is to pay with one's lunch money
21:56:00 asciilifeform: teaches quickly.
21:56:10 kanzure: sure. yeah i'm done with grants/whatever. just use my own bucks.
21:56:16 kanzure: not worth my time
21:56:57 asciilifeform: much easier, but very similar problem - home ic fab
21:57:08 asciilifeform: i intend to get there. one day.
21:57:14 kanzure: right.. so some friends and i were putting together an idea for using lasers to build microfluidic chips.
21:57:28 ozbot: laser etcher
21:57:28 asciilifeform: 40w tube readily cuts glass
21:57:35 asciilifeform: cut channels, then fuse
21:57:44 kanzure: need about 10-50 micron channel widths
21:57:55 asciilifeform: not hard if you can get the beam sweet spot
21:58:06 kanzure: but again i think this approach is probably bad; why not just build a bigger version like the traditional machines
21:58:13 kanzure: and once it's working, start ripping away and downsizing
21:58:37 kanzure: there was this oligo arrayer open source project that did it for ~$20k
21:58:49 ozbot: The POSAM Inkjet Microarrayer
22:00:02 asciilifeform: one of the reasons why the 'DIY' bio instrumentation stuff is obscure is that ebay exists
22:00:15 asciilifeform: and very serviceable surplus tech can be had by anyone
22:00:27 asciilifeform: for pennies on the dollar
22:00:53 asciilifeform: it is interesting to see the 'market' price of various things vs. the 'we buy it with u.s. tax dollars' price
22:01:18 kanzure: last i looked the synthesizers bottom out on ebay at $400-$700 "maybe working"
22:01:42 asciilifeform: much easier to fix a dead merrifield or whatnot than build all of civilization from raw materials
22:01:43 kanzure: and ~$2k for "probably working" and $50k for "sorta new, or exactly new, except we know that nobody is building this crap anymore so we're not going to lie to you"
22:02:01 asciilifeform: granted, 'fix' sometimes involves tearing out the electronics
22:02:22 kanzure: do you know of any synthesizer manufacturers that still exist? i'm aware of the refurb shops
22:02:34 kanzure: ABI etc got swallowed up and cancelled their manufacturing
22:02:49 asciilifeform: i've been out of the business for some years, unfortunately.
22:02:58 kanzure: nah it's good to get out of that uh.. industry.
22:03:30 mircea_popescu: kasa32 you must have missed the part where i told you this is a civil matter.
22:03:48 Jezzz: .r
22:03:49 ozbot: Bitstamp | Buy: $500.00
22:03:49 ozbot: Coinbase | Buy: $503.41
22:03:50 kanzure: asciilifeform: so if you know mike then how do you know me
22:03:55 mircea_popescu: kanzure so what are you actually trying to make ?
22:04:05 asciilifeform: kanzure: he introduced me to some of your works.
22:04:14 asciilifeform: long ago.
22:04:15 kanzure: asciilifeform: what is he doing?
22:04:34 asciilifeform: kanzure: last i spoke with him, he burned out and became a programmer!
22:04:45 kanzure: oh good, yeah he was okay at that
22:04:49 asciilifeform: doing some sort of dreary web crap
22:04:54 kanzure: oh
22:04:55 asciilifeform: to eat.
22:05:11 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> civil matter? Kim Dotcom was civil matter also and US managed to get him arrested so...
22:05:15 mircea_popescu: kanzure no no, with the 10micron channels and other stupid hard problems
22:05:46 kanzure: mircea_popescu: i had a colleague on that project and he's still convinced that microfluidics is the way to go, so he's still working on that in portland
22:06:17 benkay: is he involved in the low-g stuff as well?
22:06:18 asciilifeform: kanzure: ever work with 'tecan corp.' xyz robot?
22:06:20 mircea_popescu: kasa32 you have many distinct categories all confused up here.
22:06:42 kanzure: asciilifeform: i've poked at tecan things. in particular i was playing with jcline's perl library for tecan control.
22:06:48 mircea_popescu: kanzure ok, but the way to go WHERE
22:06:52 kanzure: benkay: not that i know of
22:06:52 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> you mean cos of megauploads a legal entity?
22:07:00 kanzure: mircea_popescu: dna synthesis
22:07:05 asciilifeform: kanzure: i actually spent 2 yrs. writing a total replacement for the idiot software stack those things came with.
22:07:18 mircea_popescu: kasa32 i mean because there's no such thing as an arrest in civil proceedings, and i never heard of an arrested witness yet and so on and so forth.
22:07:27 mircea_popescu: kanzure ok but to make what ?
22:07:27 kanzure: asciilifeform: to sell back to tecan?
22:07:31 tg2: mircea_popescu: what is mpex's SEC analogue
22:07:44 asciilifeform: kanzure: tried to! even landed a conference with them. guess how it went.
22:07:45 mircea_popescu: tg2 exact analogue does not exist.
22:07:56 kanzure: mircea_popescu: all sorts of things. it's a basic requirement for conducting almost any interesting molecular biology project ever.
22:07:58 asciilifeform: kanzure: 'what do you mean it doesn't run on top of our winblows stack'
22:07:59 bounce: nor should it, probably
22:08:07 mircea_popescu: kanzure which is why i am trying to get a specific out of you.
22:08:12 tg2: You should create mpsec
22:08:19 mircea_popescu: bounce i guess not.
22:08:25 tg2: And issue requests for information to the SEC
22:08:26 tg2: Lol
22:08:27 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> yes but if you are called as a witness in a trial, they might bring you there by force
22:08:30 kanzure: mircea_popescu: i don't have a specific project in mind, and if i did, i would just buy the dna from a synthesis company.
22:08:34 mircea_popescu: tg2 i'd rather build organically on proved-to-work infrastructure developed in small steps
22:08:45 mircea_popescu: than go all out with idiocy that'll never work a la us congress.
22:08:45 kasa32: to testify
22:08:53 bounce: they're chasing an idea of "fairness" that's a poor fit to fiat, possibly worse for bitcoin
22:08:55 asciilifeform: kanzure: it's still theoretically for sale. number of takers: zero.
22:08:59 kanzure: asciilifeform: well, you could always sell it to someone else i guess
22:09:08 kanzure: asciilifeform: or open source it
22:09:16 mircea_popescu: bounce i don't think that discussion is yet ripe. so far they've prosecuted one guy.
22:09:32 mircea_popescu: there's a thousand to go that i and anyone else with a shred of sanity left would readily agree are prosecutable
22:09:45 mircea_popescu: once done with that pile it may be sensible to examine wtf is what.
22:10:04 kanzure: asciilifeform: cool. let me bounce some ideas around in my head. i might be aware of some opportunities (nobody that would want to outright buy this, but.. stuff that is happening.)
22:10:07 asciilifeform: kanzure: what's interesting is that virtually everyone who owns one of those machines has a grad student wretch supervising it's stumblings in perso
22:10:09 asciilifeform: n
22:10:12 bounce: possibly. there's also them being wilfully ignorant, even impotent, in eg. the flash crash thing
22:10:34 kanzure: asciilifeform: do you know the transcriptic.com people?
22:10:34 mircea_popescu: bounce the curse of regulators, in all times and places, is that they can't afford to hire the sort of brainpower they need.
22:10:39 asciilifeform: kanzure: nope
22:10:45 mircea_popescu: which is why mpex is really such manna from heavens.
22:10:47 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> they can also charge you of conspiring to help US citizens avoid taxes and such and whatever charges or charge you with money laundry
22:11:07 kasa32: it's not like they haven't done this before
22:11:12 mircea_popescu: kasa32 are we trying to write a block buster movie script here ?
22:11:27 asciilifeform: amazing how $300K machine comes with visual basic turd that often physically destroys the enclosure when the thing boots (carriages get sent to the axis limits, because $300K apparently doesn't buy you limit switches...)
22:11:40 kasa32: I'm just saying you need to be careful and prepare yourself
22:11:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just add a bit of plastic foam!!!
22:11:49 kasa32: it might happen
22:11:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you know the story of the irradiation accidents with medical equipment cause of this problem ?
22:12:04 mircea_popescu: (comp took out some plastic stoppers to save on costs)
22:12:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'therac-25'
22:12:08 mircea_popescu: aye
22:12:16 bounce: well, though this is a dangerous suggestion, might look at some sort of theoretical underpinning of why regulating, with what overarching goal if you will. I don't really see them do more than plug holes that may or may not exist
22:12:17 kasa32: take all precautions and such
22:12:18 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in our case it was a gurl holding a fist over 'big red button'
22:12:26 asciilifeform: rather than foam
22:12:34 mircea_popescu: kasa32 your sentiment is appreciated, but had you heard of me before last week ?
22:12:40 kanzure: asciilifeform: so did you reverse engineer the tecan protocol or did you just buy their sdk or what?
22:12:46 asciilifeform: reversed 100%.
22:12:50 kanzure: ok
22:12:52 bounce: though an environment where a lot of what's being done in fiat is flat out impossible is a good dampener already
22:13:10 asciilifeform: and all of the other instruments that were to be used with the damn thing
22:13:10 mircea_popescu: bounce a lot more thought will have to be poured into those things
22:13:27 asciilifeform: idea was to get rid of the wretches hand-carrying samples to/from instruments
22:13:32 asciilifeform: because wtf is the point of a robot then
22:13:33 mircea_popescu: kanzure clearly stan has too much time on his hands.
22:13:44 asciilifeform: had.
22:13:45 bounce: by people with suitable detachment as ooposed to the usual driven to do good type
22:13:46 kanzure: you're talking to the guy who reverse engineered pokemon red and crystal
22:13:47 mircea_popescu: had.
22:13:52 kanzure: so.. if anything, don't talk to me about time.
22:13:53 bounce: s/oop/opp/
22:14:30 mircea_popescu: bounce in general it's been my experiences that only committees that include at least one asshole yield anything usable.
22:14:42 asciilifeform: kanzure: in my spam flick, you can see the bugger stuff a plate in a non-bot-enabled plate reader
22:14:43 asciilifeform: etc
22:14:43 bounce: heh
22:14:52 benkay: without assholes on the committee, how can you even know the members are human?
22:14:56 bounce: you've been training for that, haven't you?
22:15:02 kanzure: without assholes, how would you know we're human?
22:15:19 benkay: no asshole, not human.
22:15:30 bounce: apropos therac-25, that was that thing that only pooped out cryptic numbers to be looked up into large books of errors?
22:15:34 mircea_popescu: "I was born like this, I had no choice. I was born with the gift of a golden voice"
22:15:53 asciilifeform: now i just reverse shit to eat.
22:16:00 mircea_popescu: bounce one of many but yes
22:16:18 asciilifeform: 'you are what you pretend to be, so be careful what you pretend to be.'
22:16:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if that worked bitcoin would be full of ceos, venture capitalists and other peaks of intellectual achievement.
22:16:53 kanzure: asciilifeform: every time venter announces another $40M genome i just laugh
22:16:56 bounce: in a way the habitually ignored overly verbose blatter found in intrusive popups on desktops today is the other extreme... with the same effect
22:17:02 kasa32: <mircea_popescu> I've seen some tweets about the letter you received
22:17:03 bounce: s/tt/th/
22:17:25 asciilifeform: funny how my father actually spent a good deal of life doing the same (reversing western consumer junk for the soviet market)
22:17:31 kanzure: asciilifeform: if i had to pay $40M for every completely custom genome, pfft
22:17:47 kanzure: asciilifeform: are you the p90 guy
22:17:50 andyfletcher: looks like the pdf was wrong in the SEC assertion that handing over the data wasn't against EU data protection regs. MEMO/13/923 and MEMO/14/60 which were approved by the EU Parliament on 2014/03/14 refer to 'all natural persons'. Not just EU citizens.
22:17:54 asciilifeform: p90?
22:17:55 mircea_popescu: kasa32 yeah. well... i've been here preparing things for many years so far.
22:17:57 Apocalyptic: kanzure, heh, you remind me of a dude
22:17:57 bounce: kanzure, just buy some gm corn in the nearest supermarket
22:18:02 Apocalyptic: that RE some Wii games
22:18:09 kanzure: nope i haven't touched wii yet
22:18:17 asciilifeform: ;;google p90
22:18:19 kanzure: asciilifeform: private-eye wearable heads up something
22:18:27 ozbot: delroth.net - delroth's website
22:18:37 mircea_popescu: andyfletcher you don't say.
22:18:39 asciilifeform: i have an ancient page about it, yes
22:18:49 kanzure: asciilifeform: oh, then mike told me about you
22:18:49 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/paralleleye/eye.html
22:18:49 ozbot: Parallel Port Interface to the Private Eye P4 Head-Mounted Display
22:19:00 Apocalyptic: kanzure, how much time you spent on it ?
22:19:06 kanzure: Apocalyptic: wii? none whatsoever
22:19:06 stompysteve: whats going on with neobee i just got online
22:19:07 andyfletcher: mircea_popescu, yup. It is on Europa http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-186_en.htm
22:19:14 Apocalyptic: on the pokemon crystal
22:19:15 mircea_popescu: andyfletcher let's try something simpler : http://fraudsters.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/#footnote_1_53360
22:19:21 kanzure: Apocalyptic: way too much time man
22:19:27 mircea_popescu: they can't even comply with the actual fed regulations on document handling.
22:19:29 kanzure: Apocalyptic: pokemon red is "done"- it compiles without baserom.gbc
22:19:41 mircea_popescu: which... you know.
22:20:21 asciilifeform: kanzure: we're still just as far from a 'human price' svga ocular as we were in 1990.
22:20:23 kanzure: asciilifeform: (this was a few years ago, so no glass comments etc)
22:20:29 Apocalyptic: <kanzure> Apocalyptic: way too much time man // i bet, was looking for something quantitative
22:20:32 asciilifeform: 'glass' is barely vga.
22:20:48 kanzure: Apocalyptic: at least 100 hours
22:20:58 Apocalyptic: that's not much
22:21:02 kanzure: i guess not, no
22:21:08 kanzure: but the upper bound is probably 2000
22:21:09 mircea_popescu: andyfletcher anyway, you should get a cookie for being the first commentator of the matter to have spotted it. somehow the press covered it extensively but failed to notice stuff like that.
22:21:30 mircea_popescu: perhaps because the press isn't very well equipped to report these days.
22:21:45 asciilifeform: the electromechanical piece of junk features in my link is, funnily, still far ahead of what you can buy now
22:21:57 asciilifeform: if you want an ocular for something other than viewing porn on airplanes
22:22:15 andyfletcher: /me is happy to wave a finger in the direction of the SEC and say "Not allowed"
22:22:19 asciilifeform: razor-sharp monochrome, with square pixels
22:22:35 mircea_popescu: who the fuck wants to view porn on airplanes. so you get yourself all good and ready and then what ? ask the stewardess to draw the curtain and the girls to drop the tops ?
22:22:40 asciilifeform: (the 'movie'-grade displays have staggered rgb, like the cheap camera viewfinders which... they are)
22:22:45 asciilifeform: lol
22:22:46 kanzure: mircea_popescu: it's the principle
22:23:06 jborkl: Neo bee halted for abnormal trading activity
22:23:12 joecool: old news
22:23:15 mircea_popescu: jborkl scroll up honey :p
22:23:38 mircea_popescu: kanzure what principle is that ?
22:23:42 jborkl: Ah
22:23:50 kanzure: personal computing?
22:23:58 mircea_popescu: i thought porn something.
22:24:13 mike_c: asciilifeform: new oculus is 960x1080 per eye. that beats svga :)
22:24:26 asciilifeform: square pixel grid?
22:24:32 asciilifeform: because if not, go and try reading text
22:24:37 kanzure: oculus is the wrong form factor anyway
22:24:46 asciilifeform: back we go, to the days of microcomputing with tv sets
22:25:00 asciilifeform: and who wants to wear a helmet
22:25:04 mircea_popescu: weren't such bad days, those.
22:25:07 kanzure: asciilifeform: so why is everyone such a fuckup with making these?
22:25:13 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/chaos-battle-of-the-wizards/
22:25:14 ozbot: Chaos - Battle of the Wizards pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
22:25:21 asciilifeform: kanzure: lockheed corp. et al make fine ones. $50K+
22:25:25 asciilifeform: so, patent trolls.
22:25:40 mike_c: well, i assume not square pixels since there's a lens right in front of your eye.
22:25:53 decimation: That 'therac-25' incident is interesting, thanks for the tip. If you are making a 'firmware interlock' for a radiation machine, I would think you would at least make it in TTL or on an FPGA or something.
22:25:53 mircea_popescu: mike_c he knows what he's asking. you can't really read on the things
22:25:53 kanzure: asciilifeform: does yours still work?
22:25:58 asciilifeform: square in the sense of not being staggered rows (optimized for film)
22:26:00 asciilifeform: yes it works
22:26:08 kanzure: decimation: i think that was before fpgas were on the market
22:26:19 decimation: find, cpld
22:26:19 mircea_popescu: decimation or not take out the 0.01 cent plastic stoppers
22:26:43 decimation: I bet some mba management directed that
22:26:52 decimation: "how can we shape the bottom line today?"
22:27:02 mike_c: ah. don't know whether the rows are staggered. i didn't know there were displays like that.
22:27:19 asciilifeform: if there was any kind of demand for an svga ocular, the chinese would piss on the patents and we'd have them.
22:27:42 asciilifeform: naggum's binders.
22:27:43 ozbot: Re: creation of lisp machine/lispOS - Naggum cll archive
22:27:51 mike_c: who wants to read in VR anyway?
22:27:55 decimation: I find that 'modern' cameras with giant LCD's are universally worse than the old-fashioned viewfinders with baffles
22:27:59 mircea_popescu: me
22:28:08 mircea_popescu: for instance, i'd like a measurement overlay.
22:28:12 asciilifeform: me.
22:28:19 asciilifeform: but not 100M wankers.
22:28:21 asciilifeform: not yet.
22:28:43 mike_c: well, overlays would be more of a see-through augmentation thing, not a closed off VR experience, no?
22:28:49 mircea_popescu: decimation the insulting part is they're dropping the optical viewfinder ;/
22:28:56 asciilifeform: think of what a terrific waste a non-ocular display is, for a fellow working alone
22:29:08 mircea_popescu: mike_c maybe
22:29:08 asciilifeform: my lcds are soaking up ~200W
22:29:16 ozbot: : Photo
22:29:17 asciilifeform: all so i can have a few emacsen going
22:29:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o, i got kw here.
22:29:38 mircea_popescu: fuck it. i'd use a megawatt. what's energy for ?
22:29:41 mike_c: this is bitcoin, we don't care about wasting electricity.
22:29:45 mircea_popescu: ^
22:29:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu and his room of Trinitrons
22:29:57 mircea_popescu: i save on heat!
22:30:01 asciilifeform: personally i'm less concerned with wattage than space
22:30:08 asciilifeform: living in a flat
22:30:09 mircea_popescu: so move out of the sticks.
22:30:23 mircea_popescu: do you know what 5k sq feet of floor space + garages cost in a SANE PART of the world ?
22:30:33 kanzure: no?
22:30:35 decimation: I think a competent driver with a good measurement overlay coupled with a radar/laser rangefinder would be more safe in a variety of conditions
22:30:40 asciilifeform: i can guess
22:30:44 decimation: especially if FLIR were available
22:30:45 mircea_popescu: about the same you pay for a speeding ticket.
22:30:53 kanzure: can you give me another analogy
22:30:57 mircea_popescu: decimation absolutely.
22:30:58 kanzure: i've never paid for a speeding ticket
22:31:03 mircea_popescu: good laser you can drive in fog.
22:31:12 decimation: that's clearly an application for high resolution optic viewers
22:31:13 mircea_popescu: kanzure stop sucking and go get a speeding ticket.
22:31:18 kanzure: mircea_popescu: yeah, i should
22:31:38 decimation: ideally you have car-mounted sensors without any blockage from the columns in the vehicle
22:31:48 mircea_popescu: decimation obviously, lasers in the lights.
22:32:41 mircea_popescu: actually... you don't really need oculars for this
22:32:49 mircea_popescu: you could make a decent window.
22:33:01 mircea_popescu: this i think is a start-up idea right here, sell window + sensor kids for the aftermarket.
22:33:28 pankkake: I want sensor kids
22:33:30 mircea_popescu: people would be all over your shit. 100mn of them too, because nothing gets a guy off quite like having the girl that's about to give him a blowjob think he's batman
22:33:30 kanzure: sensor kids
22:33:36 mircea_popescu: kits omg
22:33:42 decimation: I think the angle here is that the "my startup life" folks in california want to jump directly to full automation. Why not mine the more easily achievable sensor augmentation market?
22:33:55 mircea_popescu: decimation what do they know.
22:34:18 mircea_popescu: someone get elon musk in here lol.
22:34:39 benkay: subject of more easily achievable sensor markets, check out the new client
22:34:50 Musk: mircea_popescu, he's busy with exploding Tesla's
22:35:10 decimation: maybe we can wrap everyone in a titanium shell so they don't experience hardship in life
22:35:23 Musk: decimation, ah!
22:35:25 mircea_popescu: Musk well, imagine how cool it'd be if the front window'd show the explosion parameters in futura font
22:35:42 mircea_popescu: just as you're flying through teh clouds
22:38:26 mircea_popescu: what the... did i lose interwebs or did everyone somehow inexplicably shut up for two minutes
22:38:33 mircea_popescu: i'm calling 911.
22:38:48 decimation: reading reviews of people who work at SpaceX, it's obvious the business model is "milk underpaid labor from engineers who like "space" on facebook"
22:38:53 Musk: well the Neo fud seems over for now.. :3
22:39:19 mircea_popescu: decimation not a bad model.
22:39:33 mircea_popescu: dairy revolution ensured the supremacy of europe. milking is big, man.
22:39:54 Musk: Farmenomics ?
22:40:07 decimation: I think there was a discussion on this channel awhile back about the national security implications of cowgut in WWI Germany
22:40:26 mike_c: decimation: not necessarily a bad deal for the engineers. lot to be said for liking what you work on.
22:40:51 mircea_popescu: milking AND liking
22:41:09 decimation: I'm told that most cows line up to be milked
22:41:17 mircea_popescu: they do. mastitis is deadly.
22:41:22 mircea_popescu: and painful.
22:42:02 decimation: Perhaps this is also related to the "beetle man" attitude
22:44:15 mircea_popescu: o look at that. elon musk was not here.
22:44:25 mircea_popescu: i mean, not elon musk was here
22:46:15 ozbot: Would you send money or bitcoins to MtGox when it re-opens? (poll)
22:46:21 mircea_popescu: Question: Would you send money or bitcoins to MtGox when it re-opens? (Voting closed: March 27, 2014, 03:11:32 PM) Yes 34 (43%)
22:46:21 mircea_popescu: No 45 (57%)
22:46:21 mircea_popescu: Total Voters: 79
22:46:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^ enjoy baby.
22:47:48 decimation: so are these the deer that walk up to the hunter and kneel down?
22:48:10 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=537527.msg5956966#msg5956966 dank is back.
22:48:12 ozbot: Looking for investment of ~2500 BTC for music festival, return = ~150,000 BTC
22:48:23 mircea_popescu: decimation no, these are "the community". according to themselves.
22:48:34 copumpkin: o.O
22:48:38 ThickAsThieves: what is it with people trying to connect all things they dont like to MPEx? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg5958430#msg5958430
22:48:40 pankkake: "p.s: notice name of the seller "btcapples". A notorious spammer troll connected to Mpex. "
22:48:43 pankkake: that guy…
22:48:46 copumpkin: 150k btc return sounds like a good deal!
22:48:46 ThickAsThieves: i beat you!
22:48:50 copumpkin: ozbot: sign me up!
22:49:03 copumpkin: >_>
22:49:05 pankkake: lol
22:49:23 copumpkin: then I can finally be richer than mircea_popescu
22:49:28 copumpkin: it's always been a goal of mine
22:49:29 decimation: apparently there is sufficient fuel remaining to re-open the gox chumpatron
22:49:35 mircea_popescu: btcapples ?! who's that ?
22:49:56 mircea_popescu: between crumbs, btcapples and a pankkake we can make OUR OWN PIES
22:50:08 pankkake: :D
22:50:39 ThickAsThieves: btcapples seems to be the only guy to ever conduct a forum-based sale of NEOBEE shares through the LMB platform
22:50:43 mircea_popescu: copumpkin well if you organise a btc festival that nets 150k coins you'll definitely end up with more stds than i ever had.
22:50:50 copumpkin: :D
22:51:10 mircea_popescu: "Also, he tried to sell these(whoevers') shares under false pretense. I believe it was financial hardship?"
22:51:15 mircea_popescu: was it actually not his shares ?
22:51:34 ThickAsThieves: i dont know whether he's one of the people suspected
22:51:39 ThickAsThieves: but he's got my attention now
22:51:45 copumpkin: okay, can someone pump up S.MPOE to 1 btc each?
22:51:48 copumpkin: thanks
22:52:18 mircea_popescu: "People think that anything goes on the internet, but if Neobee was a legit stock under the jurisdiction of the SEC, all the FUD spreaders on the internet would be locked up VERY QUICKLY for the crap they have been pulling recently."
22:52:20 benkay: !t m s.mpoe
22:52:31 ThickAsThieves: ...
22:52:34 pankkake: the amount of shares was pretty small… no one should care really
22:52:45 ThickAsThieves: that poster has never seen pinksheet forums
22:52:49 benkay: Phildo lol great name
22:52:54 mircea_popescu: sec definitely spends its time reading yahoo finance boards o.I
22:53:25 benkay: ;;google jonathan lebed
22:53:27 mircea_popescu: so basically the shill brigade is arguing this theory whereby indefinite suspensions are a good thing.
22:53:41 mircea_popescu: why are they even involved in this for the love of christ.
22:53:43 benkay: mircea_popescu: not only do they read yahoo boards, they also go after 15 yo's
22:54:05 ThickAsThieves: the psychology of the forum needs its own study
22:54:12 ThickAsThieves: it's amazine really
22:54:17 ThickAsThieves: amazing
22:54:18 ThickAsThieves: !
22:54:21 psterryl: ThickAsThieves: " i dont know whether he's one of the people suspected"
22:54:25 psterryl: Suspected of what?
22:54:39 ThickAsThieves: did you not see the statement?
22:54:45 pankkake: isn't it basically stockholm syndrome?
22:54:56 mircea_popescu: JERRY: I don't even want to talk about it anymore. What were you thinking? What was going on in your mind? Artistic integrity? Where, where did you come up with that? You're not artistic and you have no integrity. You know you really need some help. A regular psychiatrist couldn't even help you. You need to go to like Vienna or something. You know what I mean? You need to get involved at the University level. Like wher
22:54:56 mircea_popescu: e Freud studied and have all those people looking at you and checking up on you. That's the kind of help you need. Not the once a week for eighty bucks. No. You need a team. A team of psychiatrists working round the clock thinking about you, having conferences, observing you, like the way they did with the Elephant Man. That's what I'm talking about because that's the only way you're going to get better.
22:55:15 psterryl: yeah im just wondering what constitutes "suspicious trading activity"
22:55:45 pankkake: maybe I should create an exchange where you can only trade if trade.value > lasttrade.value
22:55:48 pankkake: they would love it
22:55:49 mircea_popescu: psterryl http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2014#589549 is my theory.
22:56:02 mircea_popescu: pankkake isn't that basically the bitcoin gem "idea" ?
22:56:14 mike_c: pankkake: that is havelock.. see RENT, see NEOBEE, see ..
22:56:24 ThickAsThieves: psterryl, i dont think i have an answer in that regard
22:56:27 mircea_popescu: mike_c rent got suspended too ?!
22:56:31 mike_c: not suspended
22:56:37 mike_c: referring to new ipo at higher than market price
22:56:59 benkay: o but haven't you heard mike_c the market price is now near the next "i"plol price!
22:57:03 benkay: !t h rent
22:57:09 benkay: !l h rent
22:57:13 mircea_popescu: mike_c there's a different problem there : if they ipo'd at same price as before they'd have a fiat dilution on their hands.
22:57:15 benkay: seeeeee?
22:57:38 mircea_popescu: and i fucking need to stop calling subsequent offerings "ipos"
22:57:38 mike_c: this terminology. you can only ipo once! that's why they call it "initial"
22:57:45 mircea_popescu: one day people will be quoting this shit and laughing at me.
22:57:54 mike_c: inb4
22:57:54 ThickAsThieves: SPOs
22:58:00 mircea_popescu: spos, srsly.
22:58:04 psterryl: ThickAsThieves no worries, hopefully LMB put out a statement at some point
22:59:06 pankkake: 3PO
22:59:12 ThickAsThieves: i like it
22:59:14 ThickAsThieves: 2PO
22:59:15 benkay: reduxpo
22:59:16 mircea_popescu: 3DO !
22:59:16 ThickAsThieves: 3PO
22:59:20 ThickAsThieves: 4PO
22:59:30 mircea_popescu: iam12andwhatisthispo
22:59:33 ThickAsThieves: IPO2.0
22:59:39 benkay: can gravity po?
22:59:39 mike_c: benkay: maybe it's like an acquisition rumor. why not buy all the lower priced shares if you know it's going to be forced to 75.
22:59:55 ThickAsThieves: that doesnt really work out here
23:00:05 ThickAsThieves: you presume people will buy at 75
23:00:18 ThickAsThieves: kinda unlikely, no?
23:00:19 benkay: past shareholders aren't going to be allowed to sell at that price, mike_c
23:00:20 mike_c: i don't presume that at all. but it's either that, or a complete scam.
23:00:26 mircea_popescu: i still don't understand the merger idea too well, tbh.
23:00:35 mike_c: a random 50% pop after this new PO is announced..
23:00:36 ThickAsThieves: megrer?
23:00:40 benkay: newpo
23:00:43 benkay: poopyo
23:00:47 ThickAsThieves: alpo
23:00:50 mircea_popescu: rent guy was going to get some north carolina similar service
23:01:06 mike_c: yeah, we discussed. read the logs already ;)
23:01:22 ThickAsThieves: the20year2, take it from, just stop
23:01:25 ThickAsThieves: me*
23:01:30 benkay: could just be buying leads, although where capital's going to come to develop them is anyone's guess-JUST KIDDING HAVELOCK
23:01:32 mircea_popescu: they're not even contiguous ;/
23:01:39 mircea_popescu: mike_c no i read them.
23:02:00 mike_c: oh right, you explained to him that a business that just needs capital has no competitive advantages.
23:02:12 mircea_popescu: it's more complicated than that.
23:02:27 mircea_popescu: but anyway, in his case, maintaining offices in two states, he's setting himself up for the bomb
23:02:33 mircea_popescu: even if everything else had worked!
23:02:39 mircea_popescu: where's that brilliant men link ?
23:02:49 mike_c: he's not maintaining offices. just providing capital to that other company.
23:02:57 mike_c: it's basically a loan.
23:03:05 mircea_popescu: http://taoyue.com/stacks/articles/brilliant-men.html
23:03:06 ozbot: From the Stacks: Why I Never Hire Brilliant Men | TaoYue.com
23:03:47 jurov: for certain values of brilliant
23:04:00 mircea_popescu: worth a read.
23:10:42 decimation: I read it as: "I hire only those with high conscientiousness and low neuroticism"
23:12:54 mircea_popescu: not a bad read
23:13:27 mircea_popescu: neurosis correlates with intelligence about to the same effects rot correlates with wood.
23:14:28 decimation: the problem is that actually accomplishing this would be racist
23:14:41 mircea_popescu: how would it be racist ?!
23:14:49 mircea_popescu: you mean, it'd mostly exclude white people ?
23:14:59 decimation: behavior and personality is highly heritable
23:15:14 decimation: certain groups, probably
23:15:32 mircea_popescu: race != some random group.
23:16:50 skinnkavaj: Whats happening with NEOBEE?
23:16:53 skinnkavaj: I have not been around
23:17:01 decimation: the point is, any test that would be given to an applicant to attempt to detect his or her conscientiousness would be illeagal, like IQ tests are (in the US)
23:17:28 mike_c: lots of blue-collar jobs give personality tests before hiring
23:17:58 decimation: yeah and google gives what amount to IQ tests
23:18:10 decimation: which put them at risk of a civil-rights lawsuit
23:20:07 skinnkavaj: Seems like a great time to buy NEOBEE
23:20:11 skinnkavaj: Or am I missing something here?
23:20:26 skinnkavaj: pankkake you know
23:20:42 mike_c: just one of many things you are missing is that no one can buy.
23:20:56 skinnkavaj: I know that
23:20:59 skinnkavaj: But when it opens up
23:21:04 skinnkavaj: And why is it closed in the first place
23:21:16 mike_c: you don't know, yet it is a great time to buy.
23:21:24 mircea_popescu: decimation iq tests are illegal in the us ?!
23:21:26 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
23:21:32 skinnkavaj: mike_c: I like to buy on others fear
23:22:07 mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj so buy some lehman.
23:22:42 skinnkavaj: pankkake: Thanks sir
23:22:56 skinnkavaj: Lol
23:23:01 skinnkavaj: There is a conspiracy on bitcointalk
23:23:11 skinnkavaj: That pankkake and mircea_popescu you are the same person
23:23:49 skinnkavaj: SOmething must have happened on NEOBEE
23:23:53 skinnkavaj: Question is what
23:24:03 mircea_popescu: weren't they supposed to at some point release a report ?
23:24:29 pankkake: I was on a forum where we had this ongoing conspiracy that there really were 2-3 users on the forum and everyone else was sockpuppets
23:24:42 pankkake: but that was for fun, mostly
23:25:14 skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Are you in bed with MPOE-PR or have I misunderstood that?
23:25:30 mircea_popescu: im sittin' on a chair.
23:25:34 decimation: oh yeah, "iq tests" are illeagal, or at least they can form the basis of a civil rights lawsuit. http://vdare.com/articles/professor-gates-officer-crowley-president-obama-and-the-new-york-fire-department
23:26:04 skinnkavaj: So boring when MPOE-PR on the same thread post the same link all over again, instead of debating
23:26:45 mircea_popescu: decimation you know it's "illegal"
23:26:46 decimation: the United States alleges that defendant City of New York's use of two written examinations on a pass-fail basis, as well as its rank-order processing of applicants, in the screening and selection of applicants for appointment to the rank of entry-level firefighter, has resulted in disparate impact upon black and Hispanic applicants, is not "job related for the position in question and consistent with business necessity" and does not otherwise
23:26:47 decimation: meet the requirements of Title VII.
23:27:21 skinnkavaj: pankkake: Do you have any investment in any security I check out?
23:27:27 mircea_popescu: yes but a) the city of new york is a public corp and b) firemen and generally blue collar workers are hardly what we were thinking about
23:27:29 skinnkavaj: Feels like its so boring nowadays
23:27:34 skinnkavaj: Nothing good to invest in
23:27:38 skinnkavaj: Before it was a lot more
23:27:45 skinnkavaj: And yet bitcoin is much bigger now
23:27:46 pankkake: I have nothing, I took my losses from havelock just because fuck it
23:27:47 mircea_popescu: yeah, all very good stuff
23:27:48 skinnkavaj: So should be more securities
23:28:14 decimation: well, a private corp would open themselves up to civil suits
23:28:28 decimation: I'm surprised this hasn't happened with silicon valley already
23:28:42 skinnkavaj: pankkake: On NEOBEE or what did you have there?
23:28:58 pankkake: on everything, I got out of neobee a while ago
23:29:53 skinnkavaj: I am opening a new altcoin exchange for Litecoinlocal, before I was determined that we should have fee shares and take fees on the trading
23:30:00 skinnkavaj: Now I have decided to offer it for free
23:30:02 skinnkavaj: With no fees
23:30:09 skinnkavaj: And no shares
23:31:24 skinnkavaj: I am gonna make money by offering a really simple dice game on every altcoin traded
23:31:35 skinnkavaj: I wounder how Huobi makes money though
23:31:39 skinnkavaj: Must be expensive to deposit there
23:31:57 skinnkavaj: Or high withdrawal fees
23:32:28 skinnkavaj: It's kinda fun with zero fees, to really see how much your code and server can handle in terms of total trades per second
23:33:15 skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: I have never understood how MPOE works, but anyway the questionn goes how many trades can you handle per second right now?
23:40:43 skinnkavaj: pankkake: Progamming anything right now?
23:40:51 pankkake: maybe
23:40:55 skinnkavaj: Tell me
23:44:31 mircea_popescu: many.
23:44:44 skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Boring answer really..
23:45:03 mircea_popescu: anyone saw cul de sac ? an older polanski film.
23:45:28 mircea_popescu: Donald Pleasence is quite good in it.
23:46:33 benkay: skinnkavaj: not much. no more trades on havelock, ThickAsThieves no longer running the 'fund'.
23:47:17 benkay: so how about this: www.coindesk.com/isle-man-welcomes-digital-currency-exchanges-license-required/
23:48:13 benkay: bezzle -> crypto may yet fly
23:48:32 skinnkavaj: benkay: Didn't TAT quit managing it long time ago?
23:48:38 skinnkavaj: Or maybe it was asicminer
23:48:46 benkay: am
23:49:02 skinnkavaj: If he quit asicminer
23:49:05 mircea_popescu: "confirmed that a bitcoin exchange that holds client funds with a licensed overseas payment service provider is not required to obtain a licence in the country for its activities."
23:49:12 skinnkavaj: Maybe he quit also NEOBEE for the same reason
23:49:19 mircea_popescu: sounds like the average coindesk article.
23:49:21 skinnkavaj: I guess he thought it was too much work
23:49:45 benkay: don't really think it was the work of the thing, skinnkavaj.
23:49:54 mircea_popescu: benkay you know i like reading your blog
23:49:58 benkay: he'd have said something along those lines when the forum showed up and put him through the wringer
23:50:00 mircea_popescu: but the viewport is too wide by now.
23:50:02 benkay: say it ain't so, mircea_popescu
23:50:09 skinnkavaj: benkay: Do you have any reason to believe it was not that reason?
23:50:15 mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj didja read the log ?
23:50:19 skinnkavaj: Not the full
23:50:21 skinnkavaj: Please inform me
23:50:26 benkay: please pay me
23:50:27 skinnkavaj: I have not catched up with it yet
23:50:41 skinnkavaj: benkay: For what gtfo
23:50:42 benkay: at least tell me i'm pretty
23:50:51 skinnkavaj: Well I can stretch to that
23:51:10 mircea_popescu: benkay you've not asked too many people, btw. as best i can tell they're neither a giant scam trying to run witrh a ton of btc, nor a legitimate business.
23:51:42 benkay: what's your read, mircea_popescu?
23:51:51 mircea_popescu: they're an outfit run by an incompetent if vain kid that drank the kool aid. they got some btc together, made some media buys and... that's it.
23:52:05 mircea_popescu: very dot-com ish really, but history is only useful to the literate.
23:52:14 skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: But the original prospectus was really well thought thru
23:52:29 skinnkavaj: He did have a good business plan
23:52:34 skinnkavaj: Or else so many wouldnt invest with him
23:52:36 mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj ever pick up a chick that looked good at the disco only to get scared in the morning ?
23:52:38 benkay: skinnkavaj: are you referring to the part where they claimed they'd be able to protect cypriots from haircuts?
23:52:41 skinnkavaj: And I dont think much BTC business is "legal"
23:52:52 skinnkavaj: In fact not many business at all
23:52:55 skinnkavaj: Not even fiat business
23:52:58 skinnkavaj: Apple is still breaking the law..
23:53:15 mircea_popescu: you're skidding all over the place.
23:53:20 benkay: US law, which is not law any more by dint of outlawing the un-out-law-able.
23:53:47 benkay: US tax law which has put itself into the voluntary donation zone?
23:55:18 skinnkavaj: benkay: US tax law was put into voluntary donation zone when Bitcoin was first launched in 2009
23:55:43 skinnkavaj: By technical reasons
23:56:01 benkay: sure
23:56:19 benkay: USG is slowly aligning themselves with reality on the ground
23:56:47 skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Is MPOE a registred company in US or why did SEC contact you?
23:57:29 mircea_popescu: i imagine they contacted me because they wanted to talk.
23:57:33 mircea_popescu: what silly q is that.
23:58:35 skinnkavaj: Erik Vorhees was smart
23:58:40 skinnkavaj: Fake selling SD to himself
23:58:47 dexX7: proof?
23:58:55 skinnkavaj: "Anonymous investor"
23:59:05 dexX7: who did pay the shareholders then?
23:59:08 skinnkavaj: It's obvious when you think about it
23:59:16 skinnkavaj: Himself from everything he earned
23:59:23 skinnkavaj: He have a lot of BTC
23:59:29 dexX7: (i don't know how much that was)