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Transcript for 28-03-2015, 2665 lines:

00:00:49 *: asciilifeform would also like an atomic zeppelin

00:01:03 asciilifeform: but not everyone can have.

00:01:18 asciilifeform: (cannot argue against it being a mighty fine thing!)

00:01:25 mircea_popescu: ;;google all we need is love

00:01:26 gribble: Ricki-Lee - All We Need Is Love - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KifF5OMDIsM; All You Need Is Love - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLEtGRUrtJo; Beatles - All You Need Is Love Lyrics | MetroLyrics: http://www.metrolyrics.com/all-you-need-is-love-lyrics-beatles.html

00:01:39 asciilifeform: more to the point, 'yellow submarine'

00:02:31 mircea_popescu: im not sure we're all homo enough to live on the same submarine

00:02:37 asciilifeform: l0l true

00:03:12 *: asciilifeform recalls some 'dark future of hello kitty' (tm) novel with 'gay pill'

00:03:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125226 @ 0.00025811 = 32.3221 BTC [-] {2}

00:04:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45874 @ 0.00025191 = 11.5561 BTC [-]

00:06:57 asciilifeform: http://upstart.bizjournals.com/companies/media/2015/03/12/guardian-takes-back-claims-news-report-on-whisper.html << slightly out-of-date mega-l0l. 'guardian' forced to retract piece exposing egregious chumpatron

00:06:59 assbot: The Guardian issues clarification on Whisper privacy scandal that wasn't such a scandal after all ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0IRLT )

00:07:29 asciilifeform: 'The fallout from The Guardian investigation, which started while the newspaper was exploring an editorial partnership with Whisper, was hugely disruptive for the California startup, drawing the scrutiny of the U.S. Senate and leading CEO Michael Heyward to suspend parts of its editorial team.'

00:10:48 mircea_popescu: so basically, scam got called out originally

00:11:01 mircea_popescu: but then they figured out that when it comes to newspaper content, they got no alternative

00:11:02 mircea_popescu: and so...

00:12:48 asciilifeform: -suspend parts of its editorial team-.

00:12:53 asciilifeform: the honest men - now starve.

00:13:16 asciilifeform: (or wait tables, if lucky)

00:13:32 asciilifeform: the pliant muppets - fat, fatter.

00:13:48 mircea_popescu: they went to bat for the wrong ceo.

00:14:09 asciilifeform: where does the 'right ceo' live, l0l

00:14:13 mircea_popescu: in any case, gotta admire how narrowly the chumpatron works.

00:14:29 mircea_popescu: how does this thing advertise itself in wikipedia ? (and yes, that's what wikipedia is, usg-pravda)

00:14:31 mircea_popescu: Whisper has become popular on college campuses,[7] with usership at several large universities throughout the United States, including Pennsylvania State University, Arizona State University, University of Florida, Ohio State University, and University of Texas at Austin.

00:14:35 asciilifeform: pediwikia

00:14:38 mircea_popescu: because totally. it worked for facebook, right ?

00:14:50 asciilifeform: elementary honeypot

00:14:58 mircea_popescu: college campuses! we got them! that's the criteria!

00:15:17 mircea_popescu: "but maybe you deliberately are claiming this because you think it's the criteria ?"

00:15:20 mircea_popescu: *blank stare*

00:15:30 asciilifeform: buffett's algorithm - or ask any insect exterminator - zap'em young.

00:19:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137688 @ 0.00025091 = 34.5473 BTC [-] {3}

00:22:03 Chillum: advertising on Wikipedia?? unheard of!

00:23:36 thestringpuller: ^- that brings some vivid imagery.

00:23:58 Chillum: point me to the spammer and I will block them!

00:24:38 thestringpuller: VC's are like the new crack dealers.

00:25:51 thestringpuller: These kids get addicted to their crack-money, and then depend on it. Next thing you know you're coinbase or reddit begging for 500mn.

00:25:56 thestringpuller: Sucking the USG dick.

00:26:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78346 @ 0.00024852 = 19.4705 BTC [-]

00:28:19 thestringpuller: https://medium.com/backchannel/inside-the-deep-web-drug-lab-9718cd0fe504

00:29:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36000 @ 0.0002569 = 9.2484 BTC [+]

00:30:22 trinque: pogo's not a bad little device, surely not for the price

00:31:48 trinque: asciilifeform: where does turdel expect to find storage?

00:31:51 trinque: for the blockchain

00:32:06 nubbins`: turdel expects nothing yet

00:32:21 trinque: I'll wait on that then, until my usb serial thing comes

00:32:47 nubbins`: hey, your choice. the more eyes the better

00:33:07 nubbins`: worth figuring out the tftp setup, flasing the pogo, etc

00:33:26 trinque: thought was that having that would help me test

00:33:29 trinque: I can be useful without?

00:34:10 trinque: does that kernel belch serial console stuff to netconsole?

00:34:35 trinque: I figure otherwise if it gets stuck somewhere my best feedback is going to be "eh well, didn't go?"

00:35:06 nubbins`: well, you got through the qnology post, right?

00:35:09 nubbins`: http://blog.qnology.com/2014/07/hacking-pogoplug-v4-series-4-and-mobile.html

00:35:11 assbot: Qui's techNOLOGY Blog: Hacking the Pogoplug v4 (Series 4 and Mobile) with Linux (Debian or Arch) ... ( http://bit.ly/1EK4Lin )

00:35:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70526 @ 0.00024764 = 17.4651 BTC [-] {2}

00:35:15 nubbins`: debian up and running on it?

00:35:17 trinque: yeah

00:35:24 nubbins`: ok, how 'bout tftp

00:35:42 decimation: re: us 'college' http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/bernie-sanders-2016-loan-fraud/2015/03/27/id/634817/ < " The wife of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-described socialist who is aligned with the Democrat Party, may have committed loan fraud and almost drove a small college into financial ruin, according to a report."

00:35:43 assbot: Report: Did Bernie Sanders' Wife Commit Loan Fraud? ... ( http://bit.ly/1EK4QTb )

00:35:55 nubbins`: most sane package managers should have a tftpd that you can install on your local machine

00:36:13 trinque: yeah I understand tftp

00:36:27 trinque: what are you guys using to watch it boot if not netconsole or the usb serial thing?

00:36:37 trinque: or are you just waiting for it to come up, then telnet-ing in?

00:36:56 nubbins`: so you interrupt the boot sequence w/ nc

00:37:09 nubbins`: then tftp the turdel blob over

00:37:27 trinque: ah this is in dpb's writeup

00:37:28 nubbins`: the first thing you have to do is update the boot sequence on your pogo

00:37:34 nubbins`: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000050.html

00:37:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xlzzZr )

00:37:42 nubbins`: start with the fw_setenv bits down bottom

00:37:46 trinque: k

00:37:52 nubbins`: "tftp server ip" is your desktop

00:38:05 nubbins`: wait, hold on now

00:38:08 nubbins`: i fucked this up last time.

00:38:18 nubbins`: fw_setenv "bootcmd='run boot_tftp'" <<< this needs to be modified

00:38:31 nubbins`: change that to:

00:38:44 nubbins`: /tmp/fw_setenv bootcmd 'run boot_tftp; run bootcmd_mmc; run bootcmd_usb; run bootcmd_sata; run bootcmd_pogo; reset'

00:38:59 nubbins`: that way if tftp boot fails, you're not bricked

00:39:36 trinque: cool

00:40:01 nubbins`: right. so once you get that done, you start up netcat on your desktop

00:40:12 nubbins`: $ nc -lu 6666 &

00:40:18 trinque: sweet, uboot does it

00:40:27 trinque: that's what I was wondering, whether I'd be blind during boot

00:40:42 nubbins`: $ nc -u <pogo ip> 6666

00:40:52 nubbins`: then just power cycle the pogo and watch the show

00:41:01 nubbins`: you'll see the 10-second countdown, hit enter

00:41:35 nubbins`: then Pogov4> tftp 0x800000 turdel_with_telnet

00:41:41 nubbins`: Pogov4> bootm 0x800000

00:41:56 nubbins`: at which point it immediately boots into the turdel, give it a bit, then telnet into it

00:42:31 nubbins`: when you're done, killall nc

00:42:41 nubbins`: http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?3,14,14

00:42:43 assbot: Use netconsole to troubleshoot uBoot without a serial cable ... ( http://bit.ly/1xlAqsY )

00:43:39 nubbins`: if you manage to telnet into the turdel, pastebin some shit to prove it :D

00:44:20 nubbins`: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QHGEWZdn

00:44:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xlAHfA )

00:44:53 decimation: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2902310/toshiba-announces-industrys-densest-3d-flash-memory.html < " With the 3D NAND chips, which started shipping Thursday, solid-state drives (SSDs) with more than 10TB of storage are just around the corner, according to Brian Shirley, vice president of memory and technology solutions at Micron. "

00:44:55 assbot: Toshiba announces industry's densest 3D flash memory | Computerworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1EK6uo0 )

00:45:00 decimation: good thing, given the size of the blockchain

00:45:03 mircea_popescu: Chillum point me to the spammer and I will block them! << the whole thing exists principally as an advertising venue for a certain set of nonsense.

00:45:05 mircea_popescu: such as... whisper.

00:45:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105070 @ 0.00024754 = 26.009 BTC [-]

00:45:31 *: mircea_popescu meanwhile looked at hostmask.

00:45:38 Chillum: as a wikipedia admin I agree there is a lot of spam, though that is not the reason for its existence

00:46:05 mircea_popescu: well, take this with a grain of salt, so it may add digestion

00:46:22 mircea_popescu: but : the thinking here is that google putting wikipedia at top of search results is neither algorithmic nor coincidental.

00:46:34 Chillum: It is because we are linked so much

00:46:43 mircea_popescu: while it doesn't amount to conspiracy, it factually functions as one. flows driectly from confirnation bias.

00:46:56 mircea_popescu: mno, google doesn't either follow links or care about the results since years ago.

00:47:41 Chillum: Not sure what you mean by whisper

00:48:00 mircea_popescu: the certain (worthless) app was being discussed earlier re the guardian piece

00:48:22 Chillum: oh, well that article is a pile of crap.

00:48:29 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1075528

00:48:29 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 00:06:57; asciilifeform: http://upstart.bizjournals.com/companies/media/2015/03/12/guardian-takes-back-claims-news-report-on-whisper.html << slightly out-of-date mega-l0l. 'guardian' forced to retract piece exposing egregious chumpatron

00:48:36 mircea_popescu: specifically ?

00:48:36 Chillum: but Wikipedia is barely aware of its existence

00:48:41 decimation: Chillum: I once tried to edit a climate-change related article on wikipedia, my changes were immediate reverted by william connolley

00:48:55 Chillum: well that is a controversial article

00:49:03 Chillum: you would need to participate in the debate on the talk page

00:49:17 mircea_popescu: Chillum mind that what i said was, "in the article whisper made on wikipedia to advertise itself, which is what wikipedia is principally used for, they depict themselves as so and so, because that's what they perceive is aspiration-able"

00:49:42 Chillum: we discourage people from writing about themselves

00:49:45 Chillum: pretty hard to stop though

00:49:49 mircea_popescu: right.

00:49:59 Chillum: right

00:50:00 mircea_popescu: impossible to stop. anything anyone wants to talk about is themselves.

00:50:25 Chillum: we can't stop nuts from showing up all day with crazy theories either

00:50:28 mircea_popescu: but the fact that it has to be stopped in the first place says something.

00:50:38 mircea_popescu: haha showing up where ?

00:50:43 Chillum: on Wikipedia

00:51:29 decimation: wikipedia is the ultimate do-achracy

00:51:47 decimation: nobodies can camp all day on an article and 'win' if they revert/revise quickly enough

00:53:14 trinque: nubbins`: helps if you disable your firewall on local machine

00:53:17 trinque: :D

00:53:24 nubbins`: heh.

00:53:28 mircea_popescu: lol

00:53:35 mircea_popescu: he's from apple. wut firewall ?

00:54:00 trinque: mircea_popescu: they've got a nice pretend one with a fence icon, I'm sure

00:54:07 mircea_popescu: is it white ?

00:54:23 mircea_popescu: does it have a really short cable ?

00:54:42 *: trinque misses the reference

00:55:04 mircea_popescu: for a while i-somethings came with very short power cables, you could pay 20 bux or something for a human sized one.

00:55:13 mircea_popescu: because their primary market was w/e, rabbits or something.

00:55:26 trinque: oh, indeed

00:55:39 trinque: now only one cable, probably still short

00:55:46 *: trinque boots a turdel

00:55:58 mircea_popescu: i never said this before, because i didn't want to jinx it, but

00:56:07 mircea_popescu: i am fucking shocked they've not yet made square section cables

00:56:21 mircea_popescu: strikes me as exactly the sort of apple-esque innovationitivity.

00:56:22 Chillum: 3d flash memory looks pretty awesome

00:56:29 *: Chillum drools at 10tb solid state drive

00:57:08 mircea_popescu: o wow, you actually churning that much data ?

00:58:43 mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot Chillum

00:58:44 assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/Chillum | http://w.b-a.link/user/Chillum

00:58:45 jurov: when square cables twist(inevitably), it is very visible and it looks bad

00:59:12 mircea_popescu: jurov so make them out of dried panda tears so they don't twist.

00:59:28 Chillum: movies, tv, music

00:59:36 mircea_popescu: !rate Chillum 1 wikipedia

00:59:36 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d153043aa0511b3b

00:59:38 Chillum: (all legally bought of course"

00:59:56 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.Chillum.1:fe02b9a13c2f6575aa1d01aa90703ea5ff5fdf144a166dc8d1aac9869a5e8361

00:59:57 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for Chillum with note: wikipedia

01:00:28 Chillum: thanks

01:00:49 mircea_popescu: Chillum i have a coupla tb of movies girls prepped for me that i keep meaning to sometime see

01:00:54 mircea_popescu: must have been there since 2012ish

01:00:54 jurov: how much can 10tb of legal content cost? dat's like, 200 blurays

01:01:38 jurov: *legally purchased copyrasted content

01:01:50 mircea_popescu: i thought bluray was like 30gb

01:02:16 jurov: 300 then. better yet.

01:02:44 mircea_popescu: In January 2007, Hitachi showcased a 100 GB Blu-ray Disc, consisting of four layers containing 25 GB each.

01:02:46 mircea_popescu: nm.

01:02:58 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> he's from apple. wut firewall ? <<< o.O the same firewall that obsd uses, smarty

01:03:14 mircea_popescu: right.

01:03:35 *: nubbins` shrugs, points to evidence

01:04:14 *: mircea_popescu ignores evidence, eats the points.

01:04:36 nubbins`: hey!

01:04:58 decimation: pfsense, yes, another apple thing shamelessly ripped by apple

01:05:08 decimation: err, bsd thing

01:05:24 nubbins`: not pfsense but PF

01:06:06 decimation: aye, pfsense is the distro right?

01:06:09 nubbins`: (what else'd you expect a BSD mutant to use?)

01:06:23 decimation: what bsd used before pf

01:07:33 trinque: nubbins`: http://dpaste.com/25ESNNY

01:07:34 assbot: dpaste: 25ESNNY: pogo turdel_with_telnet.gz, by trinque ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKa81b )

01:08:11 decimation: ipfw to be specific

01:08:22 mircea_popescu: you know there's going to be children named turdel because of you people.

01:08:22 danielpbarron: pfsense is a freebsd user-friendlier interface for OpenBSD's PF

01:08:28 trinque: asciilifeform: turdel_with_telnet.gz works over here

01:08:33 decimation: apple didn't move to pf until 10.7

01:08:35 nubbins`: trinque haha wd, another one in the club

01:08:43 nubbins`: decimation +1. they used fbsd firewall before that

01:09:22 mircea_popescu: "before turning off the obsd firewall, apple used to turn off the fbsd firewall"

01:09:22 decimation: none of which was prominently displayed on their marketing or specs

01:09:56 nubbins`: well, y'know. they also don't advertise that it comes with tftp

01:10:15 mircea_popescu: decimation dude why the hate, they were just taking from those hacker kids and giving back to the business community!

01:10:24 decimation: one of the reasons why I won quote-of-the-year last year :) http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=304

01:10:25 assbot: #bitcoin-assets bash ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKayV6 )

01:10:28 nubbins`: or the thousand other BSD userland utils.

01:10:46 mircea_popescu: the clown cars still cracks me up

01:10:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85590 @ 0.00025935 = 22.1978 BTC [+] {2}

01:11:16 decimation: it's true, because you are on bsd but you never know what is behind the bulkhead

01:11:50 decimation: although I would say that the folks at macports do a pretty good job of porting sane unix to osx

01:12:14 trinque: brew = you're gonna have a bad time

01:12:34 trinque: written with the rubyfuck whimsy that prioritizes cute names over clarity

01:12:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5660 @ 0.00026059 = 1.4749 BTC [+]

01:12:54 nubbins`: pouring bottle!

01:13:03 trinque: tapping keg! (winks at camera)

01:13:06 nubbins`: heh.

01:13:10 nubbins`: brew aint so bad

01:13:20 decimation: yeah I tried brew once, after about 15 minutes I ditched that shit

01:13:25 trinque: that guy "why" was a good fly zapper

01:14:05 nubbins`: maybe i'll do up a keg for 0.5.3.1 ;p

01:14:19 trinque: nubbins`: dunno, I could have laid into 'er too hard, but I've had to nuke my brew install > two hands amount of times

01:14:43 nubbins`: i nuked mine 3-4 times before i even started to understand wtf i was doing

01:15:06 trinque: probably makes more sense after you map the whimsy to useful symbols

01:15:23 nubbins`: just think of it as apt-get with weird terminology

01:15:53 trinque: it has a use-flags-esque thing

01:15:54 trinque: I like that.

01:35:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43000 @ 0.00026293 = 11.306 BTC [+]

01:35:44 mircea_popescu: very vaguely lulzi wikipedia drama : apparently they have some sort of "did you know that..." advertising shtick.

01:35:52 mircea_popescu: one of the items in there was at some point that after [[Melina Perez|Melina]] ''(pictured)'' stripped [[Torrie Wilson]] in a bra & panties match at '''[[The Great American Bash (2005)]]''', referee [[Candice Michelle]] stripped Melina and herself as well?

01:36:23 mircea_popescu: i have nfi what this is, except iirc godaddy had a candice michelle doing some random sluttery in their bangbros inspired style.

01:36:40 decimation: lol http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/us/politics/indiana-law-denounced-as-invitation-to-discriminate-against-gays.html?_r=0 < this article could have been in krokodil

01:36:43 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ee04lY )

01:36:59 mircea_popescu: however! an admin (bedford) launched in a very... naggumesque, so to say rant, on some blog or something. myspace profile ?

01:37:10 mircea_popescu: and as a result, mega huge shitfest, because how can he say things like feminazi and pms

01:37:23 mircea_popescu: "Bedford, if you really wrote that, I ask you to resign your adminship. I have no opinion right now if such a request is legitimate based on policy, or precedent. I only know you've lost my faith in your ability to act in a reasonable and impartial manner. And if you didn't write it, you need to find out who is impersonating you on myspace, because they're making you look really, really, really bad."

01:37:31 mircea_popescu: and soon enough jimbo himself

01:37:42 decimation: lol

01:37:45 mircea_popescu: *I have desysopped him. This is not even a close call. He's so far over the line of the conduct - both onsite and offsite - that I expect from admins that nothing short of a full and complete apology for his behavior and a retraction of his comments will do. Additionally, he will have to stand for re-election if he dares. As for me, I would never vote for someone with this kind of behavior in his history."

01:37:53 mircea_popescu: this is VERY amusing, seeing how child porn is in jimbo's history.

01:37:59 decimation: note the meanings of the words "reasonable" and "impartial"

01:38:03 mircea_popescu: right ?

01:38:18 decimation: "say what the fuck we want you to say when we want you to say it"

01:38:18 mircea_popescu: somehow factual unpleasantness does not belong in the soi dissant encyclopedia.

01:38:27 Chillum: what this place has more gossip than my mom's bridge games

01:38:34 mircea_popescu: you have no idea!

01:39:07 mircea_popescu: anyway, i declare myself suitably amused.

01:39:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45101 @ 0.00024778 = 11.1751 BTC [-]

01:39:44 decimation: "Marc Benioff, the chief executive of Salesforce.com, a technology company with a major presence in Indiana, announced that he would cancel all company events in the state."

01:39:54 decimation: "Jeremy Stoppelman, the founder of Yelp, which publishes online reviews of businesses, issued a warning to states like Indiana that “it is unconscionable to imagine that Yelp would create, maintain, or expand a significant business presence in any state that encouraged discrimination.”"

01:40:04 decimation: ideally Indiana will hold the line and become silicon valley free

01:40:07 mircea_popescu: oh, and, from the previous source,

01:40:10 mircea_popescu: "This type of combativeness and unseemly behavior is nothing new from Bedford. I suggest a request for user conduct be filed. I am also declining to post this from my account: I am a person of color who edits under my real name, lives close to Bedford and fears harassment or violence. I do not enjoy playing this card, but I grew up in the South and have good reason to fear Confederates and their ilk. 202.155.167.221 (t

01:40:10 mircea_popescu: alk) 01:13, 26 July 2008 (UTC)"

01:40:21 mircea_popescu: so im guessing they de-op indiana now ?

01:40:26 decimation: exactly

01:40:35 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/a/pem5j

01:40:36 assbot: Mycelium Entropy opened by Border Agents - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ee0JE2 )

01:40:41 decimation: "Gen Con, a convention for game enthusiasts that draws nearly 60,000 people a year to Indianapolis, threatened to relocate its event out of state."

01:40:46 mircea_popescu: interestingly enough, yelp's failure to matter in indiana is ascribed as a fault of indiana.

01:40:51 decimation: heh yeah

01:41:22 decimation: as if any of these fuckheads would voluntarily step foot in a non-maritime state

01:41:36 mircea_popescu: nubbins` notbad.jpg. cazalla awake ?

01:41:46 asciilifeform: trinque: where does turdel expect to find storage << nowhere. you can manually mount sd and usb. (sata not yet working)

01:42:06 mircea_popescu: decimation what did indiana do ?

01:42:09 cazalla: mircea_popescu, about to step away in a few mins, what's up

01:42:19 mircea_popescu: other than being named badly, like that baseball team or w/e.

01:42:31 mircea_popescu: cazalla nubbins` link above. border cracked entropy gen.

01:42:38 asciilifeform: <trinque> does that kernel belch serial console stuff to netconsole << nope

01:42:49 decimation: "An Indiana law that could make it easier for religious conservatives to refuse service to gay couples touched off storms of protest on Friday from the worlds of arts, business and college athletics and opened an emotional new debate in the emerging campaign for president."

01:42:54 asciilifeform: trinque: but you can telnet to it!

01:42:55 nubbins`: if only it was USER AUDITABLE.

01:43:00 asciilifeform: (once it boots)

01:43:06 nubbins`: asciilifeform <+nubbins`> http://imgur.com/a/pem5j

01:43:07 assbot: Mycelium Entropy opened by Border Agents - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ee1eOk )

01:43:09 decimation: that's all the detail nyt gives on the matter before proceding on a krokodil-esque rant

01:43:19 mircea_popescu: decimation hopefully they rename it to obamana

01:43:24 decimation: heh

01:43:34 mircea_popescu: there is precedenstalingrad!

01:43:34 cazalla: mircea_popescu, i'll take a look soon

01:43:36 asciilifeform: nubbins`: ... tftpd that you can install on your local machine << try 'atftp' under gentoo

01:44:02 asciilifeform: then tftp the turdel blob over << not the correct way to use tftp. you leave the demon going, pointed at your build image

01:44:05 asciilifeform: then fully automatic

01:44:05 nubbins`: cazalla call the customs agents "notorious" if you can, they seized an ounce of salvia off me once

01:44:51 mircea_popescu: decimation "an indiana law that could" is apparently the politburo approved reference.

01:44:54 nubbins`: asciilifeform oh hey you're right, lel.

01:45:02 mircea_popescu: apparently these oh-so-edumancated kids forgot how to cite laws.

01:45:03 nubbins`: do i even posix-compliant os? ;p

01:45:40 nubbins`: asciilifeform i was mixing the fw_setenv and the one-off directions ;/

01:45:53 mircea_popescu: https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/senate/568 << there it is, anyway.

01:45:56 decimation: http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/03/27/text-indianas-religious-freedom-law/70539772/

01:45:58 assbot: Here it is: The text of Indiana's ‘religious freedom’ law ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ee1KvW )

01:46:05 decimation: "Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability. (b) A governmental entity may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if the governmental entity demonstrates that application of the burden to the person: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest;

01:46:07 decimation: and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest."

01:46:19 decimation: damn I can feel the hate that drips from that text

01:46:47 asciilifeform: 10tb solid state drive << flash still disposable.

01:46:48 mircea_popescu: especially as it provides injunctive and declaratory relief + damages.

01:47:01 asciilifeform: don't believe the lies of 'never dies.'

01:47:15 decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, still dies, but that's alot of graveyard

01:47:25 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the general home use of "large ssd" is mostly that, drop some pirated films on it, watch them never.

01:47:29 Chillum: all hard drives die. At least solid state dies in a more predictable fashion with wear levelling

01:47:31 mircea_popescu: for this, fl;ash is uniquely adequate.

01:47:57 asciilifeform: 10tb of legal content << i have easily 10TB of -generated- contents, and none of it is film or audio

01:48:13 Chillum: asciilifeform: It is just hundreds of copies of the block chain

01:48:19 decimation: it's hilarious that a law that essentially says "congress shall make no law concerning religion" is the epitome of racisis

01:48:46 Chillum: most sensible countries limit government's effect on religion and religion's effect on government

01:49:08 decimation: of course, especially in states where it's expressly forbidden

01:49:09 asciilifeform: <trinque> ... turdel_with_telnet.gz works over here << congrats!

01:49:38 asciilifeform: not that i expect it to fail on any pogo. but it'sa pons asinorum

01:50:08 mircea_popescu: decimation i thought racis is when you beat up black dudes and chauvinist is when you beat up gay dudes. did they meanwhile merge to the shorter easier to pronounce one ?

01:50:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00025242 = 7.6988 BTC [+]

01:50:34 decimation: if the sv crowd is making a distinction it's news to me

01:51:33 decimation: from my corner of usia "chauvinist" implies "hate women"

01:52:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... child porn is in jimbo's history << wai wat? l0l!

01:52:50 Chillum: did he go to the wrong summer camp?

01:53:00 mircea_popescu: i thought it was being inflexible with self-actualisation delusions. be it gayness, being a dragon or anything else. if derp says he can shit moons and you point and laugh... a chauvinist is you.

01:53:35 decimation: ;;dict chauvinist

01:53:36 gribble: wn: chauvinist n 1: a person with a prejudiced belief in the superiority of his or her own kind 2: an extreme bellicose nationalist [syn: {chauvinist}, {jingoist}, {jingo}, {flag-waver}, {hundred-percenter}, {patrioteer}]

01:53:42 decimation: sure I'll buy it

01:54:02 *: Adlai drinks and ircs; is this some right of passage or wut

01:54:35 Adlai: asciilifeform: what are you generating TBs of

01:54:50 decimation: rainbow tables w/select salts :)

01:54:54 danielpbarron: i haven't had a drink in a while

01:54:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ancientstuff, before coming up with his current chumpatron he was doing the sort of thing bitpay guy is trying to bury

01:55:06 Chillum: asciilifeform: You have experience with those Cardanos? How do they output? Can they be hooked to a serial port?

01:55:28 mircea_popescu: he... makes them.

01:55:33 Chillum: nice

01:55:42 mircea_popescu: see s.nsa discussions

01:55:46 decimation: mr. lifeform is the designer and manufacturer of them - the use usb

01:55:50 asciilifeform: <Adlai> asciilifeform: what are you generating TBs of << was, at one point. molecular dynamics crud.

01:57:02 asciilifeform: <Chillum> ... Can they be hooked to a serial port? << if you are thinking of the rng discussed in last week's thread (a component of cardano, not yet released machine) it is an analogue device with a ttl schmidt trigger out

01:57:41 asciilifeform: 0 to supply voltage.

01:57:41 danielpbarron: while on subject, what is the intended use case for the cardano? and by that I guess i mean, is it supposed to be used with MPEx? or more like a perfect forward secrecy thing? or can it be both?

01:57:59 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: it is intended for pretty much anything -but- mpex

01:58:20 asciilifeform: (unless you're stupendously loaded and don't mind shelling out 30 btc if you ever pull 'zap' trigger)

01:58:23 Chillum: I have no need, but once I own one I know a need will present itself

01:58:44 Chillum: 30btc?

01:58:51 decimation: price of a seat on mpex

01:59:03 Chillum: ah

02:03:06 asciilifeform: 'Mycelium Entropy opened by Border Agents' << entirely unsurprising. 'how're we to know that it isn't full of crystal meth?!1111'

02:03:28 hanbot: encrypted meth

02:03:46 jurov: tbh, "mycelium" "entropy" souds like some suspicious chemical

02:04:49 asciilifeform: in the end, products like this will have to ship either 1) by charter courier and/or 2) with tamper-sensitive omnidirectional video/audio/gps/inertial nav recorder

02:05:07 asciilifeform: (2) will be a cherished item, costly and mailed back'n'forth by typical owner and vendors

02:05:58 jurov: (3) by pigeons

02:06:02 asciilifeform: (i discussed several possible designs in past threads. basic principle is that a private key is destroyed upon the first sign of handling, and a secondary spare key signs every subsequent frame of recording. frames prior to this can be believed with some confidence if device arrives)

02:06:37 asciilifeform: jurov: or mechanical 'pigeon'

02:06:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55200 @ 0.00025025 = 13.8138 BTC [-]

02:06:54 decimation: apparently usg courts have ruled that 'exit' searches are legal

02:07:38 jurov: mechanical pigeons have radar signature, susceptible to gps jamming and whatnot

02:07:55 Chillum: regulars pigeons have radar signatures too

02:08:00 asciilifeform: jurov: you'd be surprised at the minimal radar cross section necessary to get anyone's attention

02:08:12 asciilifeform: nobody sits and audits eagles.

02:08:13 mircea_popescu: lol asciilifeform could write a tv show

02:08:19 mircea_popescu: SF Bitcoin!

02:08:26 mircea_popescu: jurov it does, at that.

02:08:30 asciilifeform: 'the way to predict the future is to invent it' (TM)

02:08:32 decimation: yeah civilian radar is designed to work with transponders

02:08:41 decimation: not non-cooperative targets

02:08:48 Chillum: some airports have bird radar, so don't fly around those

02:08:54 asciilifeform: let them begin to audit eagles.

02:09:02 mircea_popescu: anyway, i posit your 2) is rank nonsense. you can either not care what happens to the package, or own the infrastructure.

02:09:05 asciilifeform: 'heighten the contradictions', bankrupt the idiots

02:09:13 mircea_popescu: this case where you care and make the package enforce your law against the natives is nonsense.

02:09:14 decimation: maybe eagles should be subject to border search too

02:09:18 Chillum: F-15E Strike Eagle vs normal eagle

02:09:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again with your habituation to the atomic dirigible

02:09:27 mircea_popescu: even if you're visiting the stone age from 2500 ad.

02:09:43 mircea_popescu: they'll find a way to crack your steel drum open with dinosaur bones.

02:09:59 asciilifeform: let'em spend money searching for way to crack drum and not show up on youtube.

02:10:11 mircea_popescu: on what youtube dood. their youtube ?

02:10:19 asciilifeform: the headsoff youtube

02:10:21 asciilifeform: if necessary

02:10:36 mircea_popescu: anyway : you may be right re dirigibles, maybe. but i posit it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with fucking.

02:10:46 asciilifeform: purpose is as much to drive the enemy mad faster, as to preserve any cargo

02:10:52 asciilifeform: 'harassment weapon'

02:10:54 mircea_popescu: specifically, when one is looking to get laid, the correct strategy is to keep looking until one runs into a similarly minded bit of tail

02:11:08 mircea_popescu: NOT to try and devise a magical wand that makes arbitrary bits o' tail similarly minded.

02:11:24 mircea_popescu: well maybe like that. thos ounds pretty golden-toilety.

02:11:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: golden-toilety << not necessarily

02:11:46 asciilifeform: ultimately doesn't need to be any more complicated than a typical 'pNohe'

02:12:01 asciilifeform: not proposing to craft this personally, mind you

02:12:04 asciilifeform: but putting the idea out.

02:12:10 asciilifeform: for archaeologists.

02:12:11 mircea_popescu: lol k.

02:12:34 mircea_popescu: undata is strictly gay for spacestation hikes and alf is putting out for archeologists.

02:12:45 asciilifeform: let'em pass bans against 'recording servant of the king'

02:12:52 asciilifeform: and then try to prove that the toaster you sent does so

02:13:05 mircea_popescu: notgonna bother proving.

02:13:06 asciilifeform: because it has a somewhat glossy pinhole

02:13:21 mircea_popescu: also, by the time things are in that rut, cheaper to bribe agents than to fight the tech war.

02:13:24 decimation: asciilifeform: they already have many such bans

02:13:30 decimation: 'two-party consent'

02:14:12 decimation: actually it would be amusing for a robber to sue you for recording him without permission

02:14:21 asciilifeform: probably happened

02:14:36 decimation: or more precisely, the state to charge you

02:14:47 mircea_popescu: i know of case robber suing because he hurt himself falling through hole in roof he made

02:14:49 Chillum: I don't think you have an expectation of privacy while robbing

02:15:03 decimation: Chillum: that's now how the wiretap law is worded

02:15:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: more than one case in usa

02:15:05 mircea_popescu: but, france

02:15:07 asciilifeform: one even including a power saw

02:15:13 asciilifeform: that burglar decided to play with

02:15:20 asciilifeform: for no particular reason, in some schmuck's garage

02:15:44 Chillum: anyone can sue for any reason, the question is how successful were they?

02:16:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107200 @ 0.00026369 = 28.2676 BTC [+] {3}

02:16:57 mircea_popescu: you gotta hire a laywer right ?

02:17:07 mircea_popescu: so that successful.

02:17:15 Chillum: that is not a high... bar

02:17:24 decimation: anytime lawyers are involved everyone except lawyers loses

02:17:37 Chillum: to hire a lawyer you need money and... just money

02:17:49 mircea_popescu: http://pando.com/2014/06/09/yes-jimmy-wales-there-is-a-right-to-be-forgotten/ << pando throwing a shitfit. "how dares anyone say i am what my history rather than my narrative!11"

02:17:51 assbot: Yes, Jimmy Wales, There Is a Right To Be Forgotten | PandoDaily ... ( http://bit.ly/1GxX57w )

02:18:19 mircea_popescu: Chillum maybe. this is not exactly so, much like to get a plumber is not just a matter of money.

02:18:22 Chillum: right to be forgotten?

02:18:25 mircea_popescu: depends where you live, how famous you are etc.

02:18:38 mircea_popescu: Chillum idiotic eu concept. let's make up rights maybe people vote for us.

02:18:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the thread where i posited that being a kiddie diddler is a prime grade qualification for becoming a usg stooge (on account of having a ready jail string to be pulled by) ?

02:18:48 Chillum: there are lawyers with standards and there are lawyers who will take any paid job

02:18:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't say ?!

02:18:51 asciilifeform: probably a higher qualification than having attended harvaprinceyalebridge

02:18:57 Adlai: what's a kiddie diddler?

02:19:08 Adlai: as in 'hacker'?

02:19:09 mircea_popescu: probably somehow who rearranges kids

02:19:11 mircea_popescu: with his cock

02:19:17 Adlai: like the young master s

02:19:48 Chillum: blackmail and covert ops have gone hand in hand historically

02:19:55 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform subreason i linked that is, check out jimbo mouthpiece for google. ALSO not algorithmic, exactly.

02:20:04 Chillum: but there are agents and there are assets

02:20:16 asciilifeform: who is surprised.

02:20:26 Chillum: being an agent is having a job, being an asset is being property

02:21:26 asciilifeform: agent is the fella who recruits assets.

02:21:32 asciilifeform: this is known to schoolchildren

02:21:47 asciilifeform: although i suppose in different cultures there might be other names

02:21:50 mircea_popescu: Chillum hey, how did you end up in here ?

02:22:06 Chillum: nubbins` said the converstation was better here

02:22:16 *: nubbins` shrugs helplessly

02:22:23 nubbins`: was i right?

02:22:34 Chillum: oh ya, meeting of the minds

02:23:30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: pigeons: let's scratch the arithmetic itch. approx. 8400 km from me to b-a. a LiMnO2 (non-rechargeable) battery yields approx. 400 Wh/kg.

02:23:52 mircea_popescu: ok...

02:23:53 asciilifeform: let's suppose we are satisfied with a leisurely 100km/hr transit.

02:23:59 decimation: lol

02:24:00 asciilifeform: 84 hr. voyage

02:24:15 mircea_popescu: what flies 100km/hr ? either 16 or 600.

02:24:18 asciilifeform: out of my arse i pull a 250 watt engine.

02:24:31 asciilifeform: ;;calc 84*250/400

02:24:31 gribble: 52.5

02:24:41 asciilifeform: kg of LiMnO2 cell

02:24:41 Chillum: regarding pigeons: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549

02:24:42 assbot: RFC 2549 - IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service ... ( http://bit.ly/1GxY2gf )

02:24:44 asciilifeform: did i miss anything ?

02:24:45 mircea_popescu: Chillum it's not better per se, just the variety of assholes is greater.

02:24:55 asciilifeform: (payload, naturally; wings; extra)

02:24:55 decimation: asciilifeform: that's not a small pigeon

02:24:59 Chillum: diversity is the key to assholery

02:25:03 asciilifeform: but not a 'boeing' either

02:25:05 asciilifeform: or even a 'cessna'

02:25:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform electric batteries are a joke.

02:25:13 asciilifeform: more like an andean condor.

02:25:16 decimation: well, it's probably close to a cessna

02:25:18 mircea_popescu: gasoline is this 1.5mw battery.

02:25:20 decimation: yeah why batteries

02:25:30 asciilifeform: burning gasoline gives off heat signature

02:25:32 asciilifeform: and noise

02:25:39 mircea_popescu: are you building a flying submarine ?

02:25:40 asciilifeform: electric - no louder than a drill

02:25:46 Chillum: RFC 2549 is my favourite RFC

02:25:48 mircea_popescu: this is what i get for not letting him build pogo cnc

02:25:55 decimation: make it a turboprop and you can fly up to predator altitutde

02:25:56 mircea_popescu: now he wants to build a dynamo submarine

02:26:22 decimation: less air resistance, too far to hear

02:26:22 mircea_popescu: one day this guy is going to make us sorry we mocked yekudsky

02:26:29 mircea_popescu: or w/e harry potter fanfic guy's name is

02:26:38 asciilifeform: anyway, placed here for the enjoyment of the gentlemen t3rr0r1st3z

02:26:58 mircea_popescu: pop quiz : do terrorists also prefer blondes ?

02:26:59 Chillum: if you want to stay in the air a long time go for a lighter than air drone

02:27:09 asciilifeform: Chillum: gigantic radar cross section

02:27:19 jurov: 50kg battery means 5m3 helium blimp

02:27:22 asciilifeform: Chillum: the most effectual lift gas, H2, is about 1g/litre

02:27:27 asciilifeform: calculate necessary envelope of gas!

02:27:32 asciilifeform: for anything worthwhile as payload

02:27:34 asciilifeform: and power source.

02:27:42 asciilifeform: you get a 'goodyear blimp'

02:27:52 asciilifeform: try hiding that as a 'bird.'

02:27:53 Chillum: I suppose if you made an aluminum skin like the hindinburg

02:27:56 decimation: asciilifeform: solar powered aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse#Solar_Impulse_2_.28HB-SIB.29

02:27:58 assbot: Solar Impulse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1wEp5 )

02:28:03 asciilifeform: ^ yes, famouse

02:28:10 asciilifeform: there is one quite like it hanging in a museum here.

02:28:18 mircea_popescu: actually what i'd really like to see would be a truely flying microfibre machine.

02:28:19 decimation: aye

02:28:19 asciilifeform: again, huge cross-section

02:28:25 mircea_popescu: think 100sqft of "plastic foil"

02:28:29 decimation: they are flying around the world with the new model

02:28:31 mircea_popescu: that actually flies, sorta like a manta

02:28:33 Chillum: just get some radar, go into the desert and figure out what can hold hydrogen but does not absorb or reflect radar

02:28:34 decimation: 236ft wingspan

02:28:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i designed, on paper, such a thing. ionic lift.

02:28:46 Chillum: hydrogen itself will be more transparent than air

02:29:00 mircea_popescu: tiny microprocessor/sensors to graps its situation

02:29:01 asciilifeform: needs power source about 100x denser than LiMnO2

02:29:03 decimation: " 4 × electric motors powered from solar cells and 4 x 41 kWh lithium-ion batteries (633 kg), providing 13 kW[19], electric motors (17.4 HP) each"

02:29:08 asciilifeform: ;;google ion lifter

02:29:09 gribble: Ionocraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionocraft; LIfter/Ion Craft, Biefeld Brown Effect, Part 4 - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcgz7nKkqbI; How Ion Propulsion, Lifters and Ionocrafts Work - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01F8V5IhB5k

02:29:11 mircea_popescu: and contraction somehow to make it move.

02:29:16 mircea_popescu: that'd be a kickass robot.

02:29:18 Chillum: high voltage on those ion lifters

02:29:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not straight up like that. a flexible foil that exploits atmospheric randomness

02:29:42 mircea_popescu: ie, slides according to heat layers.

02:29:43 decimation: ;;calc (52.5/633)*236

02:29:43 gribble: 19.5734597156

02:29:48 Chillum: keep in mind that in addition to radar they are looking for signal emissions

02:29:55 decimation: ^ 19ft wingspan for your 52 kg batteries

02:29:57 decimation: cessna

02:29:57 Chillum: an ion lifter would stick out like a sore thumb

02:30:05 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: heat layers << as birds do ?

02:30:17 mircea_popescu: yes but imagine a superthin bird.

02:30:25 mircea_popescu: "like plastic bag in ocean" more apt.

02:30:36 Chillum: you could always just fly between mountains

02:30:42 mircea_popescu: a plastic bag never reaches the bottom, it is ground into mush before.

02:30:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: one of my intended applications for waveguide motor was to make ornithopter transition from joke to practical

02:30:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you could make the waveguide very flat and tiny

02:31:03 asciilifeform: arbitrarily thin

02:31:03 mircea_popescu: it would prolly work for this application

02:31:06 asciilifeform: any conductor can be it.

02:31:08 mircea_popescu: tho electrostatic may be better

02:31:16 Chillum: an ornithopter would work fine on Titan

02:31:33 Chillum: or in the fictional Mars/Barsoom

02:31:39 Chillum: (not the real Mars though)

02:31:58 jurov: mircea_popescu: iirc there is medusa-like contraption that was considered most efficient way to keep heavier tha air machine afloat

02:32:04 jurov: can't find the link

02:32:12 mircea_popescu: i recall that. something in that vein, yes

02:32:16 Chillum: did anyone see the Ted talk where they had a hummerbird model flying?

02:32:22 mircea_popescu: the newer polymers hold a lot of promise for strength etc

02:32:22 asciilifeform: at any rate, we know precisely what machine ought to look, weigh, and function like.

02:32:25 asciilifeform: ordinary bird.

02:32:26 Chillum: humming bird size, flapping wings, a blur

02:32:28 asciilifeform: say, canada goose.

02:32:48 Chillum: you could put a neural control system on a real bird

02:32:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform really more like a manta that's an acre and goes in air.

02:33:34 asciilifeform: ^ no longer fits the 'not distinguishable from actual bird except at visual contact range' bill, does it.

02:33:52 asciilifeform: brb

02:33:58 jurov: if can be done transparent

02:34:01 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> Chillum it's not better per se, just the variety of assholes is greater. << this is prob more accurate

02:34:15 jurov: but it'd need to avoid rain at all costs, i guess

02:35:18 Chillum: there are plenty of weather balloons out there. They don't follow flight plans. A large balloon would not be too out of place

02:35:28 Chillum: you can steer by changing altitude

02:35:36 Chillum: super low power

02:36:15 decimation: there's folks who make a hobby of locating radiosondes

02:36:52 decimation: http://www.blackcatsystems.com/software/radiosonde-decoder.html < one example

02:36:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GxZPSp )

02:37:37 Chillum: radio hacking is cool

02:37:47 jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_citFkSNtk

02:37:47 assbot: Festo AirJelly - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy02oP )

02:38:01 Chillum: it is not that hard to setup a software defined radio to track the transponders of aircraft nearby

02:39:26 decimation: Chillum: yes the popular tool is the rtl 2832 chip on a usb connected to software that decodes mode-s transponder emissions

02:40:20 Chillum: On another topic I am trying to hack my router(without looking up how to, figuring it out is the fun part)

02:40:33 Chillum: I found references to a uart in the firmware

02:40:48 Chillum: hopefully I can pop busybox or something

02:45:34 nubbins`: check out openwrt if you get stuck

02:47:55 Chillum: that is cheating

02:48:00 Chillum: I want to hack the OS that is on it now

02:48:02 Chillum: get root access

02:48:18 Chillum: get doom running

02:49:04 Chillum: insecurity in routers is a real problem. Most homes have a router that can be hacked by anyone who connects over wifi. From there they can packet sniff

02:53:13 Adlai: cf http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/paper.html

02:53:14 assbot: Internet Census 2012 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1C7Mv )

02:54:44 Chillum: I have found software from 2002 on my router

02:54:55 Chillum: DLINK likes to keep code a long time

02:57:22 Adlai: #b-a poll: who has found machine learning worth learning, as a human who learns machines their work

02:58:10 Adlai: (for 19th century vernacular values of the transitive 'learn')

02:59:48 asciilifeform: balloon << again, gigantic radar (and wind sail) cross-section.

03:02:01 mircea_popescu: Adlai afaik nobody.

03:02:03 Chillum: again, already lots of weather balloons out there going in random directions

03:02:05 Chillum: just blend in

03:02:37 Chillum: they go to an altitude above aircraft, when they start dropping the self destruct to avoid the airspace

03:03:13 asciilifeform: for those who insist on balloons, at least study the state of the art: http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/41791.html/fusen-bakudan-balloon-bomb

03:03:14 assbot: Chicago Boyz » Blog Archive » Fusen Bakudan balloon-bomb ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy3EqM )

03:03:55 Chillum: not state of the art. Lighter than air craft are getting very advanced

03:04:16 Adlai: mircea_popescu: sorry but you're not relevant here; you learn people their work, not machines

03:04:36 mircea_popescu: actually, my bird wouldn't be a baloon. it'd be a sheet of plastic, basically. this can have zero size if it wants to

03:04:38 Adlai: not that people aren't machines, but i think that you now know what i means

03:04:51 mircea_popescu: the question is whether you know what you mean.

03:05:09 *: Adlai knows what he wants, not what he needs

03:05:13 asciilifeform: Chillum: if you're not familiar with the fusen bakudan - it was a very elegant & clever design which exploited facts about high-atmosphere air currents

03:05:19 asciilifeform: and cost almost nothing

03:05:59 mircea_popescu: is this the thing that dropped japanese glass beads ?

03:06:08 asciilifeform: dropped thermite and hexagen

03:06:33 asciilifeform: clockwork released, depending on time, sandbags or payload bomblets

03:07:04 decimation: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/google-balloons-year-later/ < balloon with useful payload

03:07:05 assbot: Google's Balloon Internet Experiment, One Year Later | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1ESgX )

03:07:43 asciilifeform: https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5009/5307743155_c1862e4a33_z.jpg

03:07:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1EWNA )

03:11:23 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqRugDQC02Q&feature=youtu.be

03:11:24 assbot: What is the point of the "tamper evident" sticker on the Mycellium entropy devices? - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1FBi8 )

03:11:26 nubbins`: my sides.

03:11:47 nubbins`: for those who don't watch: guy removes device from package w/o damaging tamper evident sticker

03:12:08 asciilifeform: l0l

03:12:39 asciilifeform: i would also add that the 'uncopyability' of hologram is greatly exaggerated.

03:12:46 asciilifeform: esp. if you have them made at somebody else's press

03:12:52 nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/8UWZy87.gifv

03:12:52 assbot: WHAAARRRBBLLLGLLLAARRBBBLE ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1FYt7 )

03:14:22 Chillum: asciilifeform: and it did next to zero damage

03:15:11 Chillum: tamper evident sticker will only stop a casual attacker, not one with resources

03:15:18 Chillum: ie a state actor

03:15:43 decimation: ^ which is why the device must be inspectible/audit-able by user

03:15:45 Adlai: some of the devices shipped with teh sticker glued to the wrong side

03:15:50 nubbins`: ha

03:15:53 asciilifeform: Chillum: for a hypothetical smuggler, balloon only needs to land within range of cell tower and connect for a few seconds, send enciphered coords

03:15:59 Chillum: If you want to make sure the government has not tampered with a package, put some weed in there. If the weed is still there they probably did not look lol

03:16:00 Adlai: ie sticker covering the hinges of the plastic casing, rather than the clasp

03:16:03 mircea_popescu: you can trivially make tamper evident stickers that aren't fixable with infinite resoruces.

03:16:08 Chillum: ohhh I did not realize we were talking about smuggling devices

03:16:09 asciilifeform: (has obvious caveats, but may still be cost-effective)

03:16:19 decimation: or you could go out back and pick up some uranium ore and build your own rng

03:16:22 mircea_popescu: first step being, make them secret.

03:16:30 Adlai: https://imgur.com/bZ3t7VN

03:16:32 assbot: I do not understand the Mycelium Entropy packaging - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1GHKT )

03:16:43 Chillum: Semi-submersible latches onto side of cargo ship below the water lines, gets carried

03:17:05 Adlai: reddit comments are top lel: http://redd.it/30g79h

03:17:07 assbot: I do not understand the Mycelium Entropy packaging : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1I1GTtu )

03:17:07 Chillum: I assume since we are on IRC this is hypothetical

03:17:09 nubbins`: Adlai i guess those magnets aren't strong enough.

03:17:23 Adlai: magnets{

03:17:26 Adlai: ?

03:17:33 nubbins`: little silver thing in the case there

03:17:34 nubbins`: anyway

03:17:35 asciilifeform: Chillum: we are thinking of what intelligent smugglers might do a decade from today

03:17:38 nubbins`: <rassah> I would have secured them better by adding a sticker on the other side too (I got them the way you got them before shipping), but I had very few extra stickers. Should have been put on the front. I dont know what happened here. Maybe they were putting them on the sides without realizing how flexible the box is, and only realized when they almost ran out? Pretty sad that after such a huge amount of work adding and improving internal

03:17:38 nubbins`: hardware and software security, that there was such a simple oversight.

03:17:57 Chillum: asciilifeform: I think attaching to the underside of ships

03:18:13 nubbins`: "pretty sad that a fuckin sticker determines whether our device is a paperweight or not"

03:18:14 asciilifeform: make them secret << the only tamper-evident concept worth anything is the kind only evident to the intended recipient.

03:18:33 *: Adlai almost starts to feel respect for truecrypt devs, who at least admitted, behind their veil of anonimity, that they have nfc what they're doing

03:18:46 decimation: yes, it was the honorable route

03:19:06 Chillum: multiple colors of wax melted into a seal with photo delivered separately is still used by embassies in hostile mail systems

03:19:19 Chillum: very hard to reproduce the identical swirls

03:19:43 Chillum: in nuclear regulatory systems they seal with a metal button and then scratch it up with a pin and photograph the scratches

03:19:46 asciilifeform: Chillum: very hard to reproduce the identical swirls << l0l. you don't need to reproduce the seal. only the box.

03:19:50 Chillum: under the assumption that you could not produce identical scratches

03:20:31 Chillum: permeable paper, the wax absorbs into the paper which is a solid seamless envelope

03:20:33 asciilifeform: in the linked example, no one had to even build a second box - original opened and closed undamaged.

03:20:47 danielpbarron: !s bill of lading

03:20:48 assbot: 0 results for 'bill of lading' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bill+of+lading

03:21:00 asciilifeform: Chillum: unless the seal encloses the entire package, all you need to do is recreate the box and reattach the seal.

03:21:24 asciilifeform: (after having cut the original crate open on the end opposite)

03:21:24 mircea_popescu: maybe you can't detach the seal.

03:21:29 Chillum: again, no box. Small paper envelope

03:21:37 Chillum: wax absored into the paper

03:21:58 Chillum: old school method that still works today. If you can defeat it then you should sell the method to our fav government

03:21:58 asciilifeform: envelope has other side, edges

03:22:01 Adlai: what about just using fucking pke

03:22:05 asciilifeform: it is not difficult to dissolve and bond paper.

03:22:24 Adlai: or is gpg too complex for lizards?

03:22:34 asciilifeform: Adlai: go send coke and plutonium over pgp

03:22:47 Adlai: who sends coke and plutonium in diplomatic mail+

03:23:02 asciilifeform: plenty of folks

03:23:03 asciilifeform: nukes, even

03:23:12 asciilifeform: are known for a fact to have traveled in diplopouch

03:23:30 Chillum: big pouch

03:23:34 Adlai: maybe the launch codes. but the nuke itself doesn't fit in an envelope

03:23:46 Adlai: launch codes can be serialized and 'compressed'

03:23:50 asciilifeform: Chillum, Adlai : 'pouch' is a misnomer

03:23:51 decimation: the business end of a nuke is not large at all

03:24:07 asciilifeform: diplomatic mail has carried items as large as entire tanks

03:24:08 danielpbarron: http://szabo.best.vwh.net/seals.html

03:24:10 assbot: The Playdough Protocols ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy72C5 )

03:24:44 Adlai: "Miss Bianca, after all, is a poet too, and in any case she is due to travel any day now by diplomatic pouch to Norway."

03:24:45 decimation: http://www.state.gov/m/ds/rls/c33371.htm

03:24:46 assbot: 2009 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy77Wd )

03:25:11 danielpbarron: Rejoining the breached container lid, knot, or latch and replacing the broken seal with a new, identical seal would have been, short of stealing the original unique seal carving, impossible to hide from the inspector.

03:25:24 asciilifeform: incidentally

03:26:04 asciilifeform: by vienna convention (1815 iirc) diplo couriers are permitted to treat any attack upon their cargo or person as an act of war

03:26:06 Adlai: danielpbarron: you don't have to touch the seal if the packaging itself is easier to replicate

03:26:07 asciilifeform: and shoot to kill

03:26:24 asciilifeform: su diplo couriers would also hit the Big Red Button (TM) on the crate

03:26:26 Adlai: corners and edges are a bitch

03:26:26 asciilifeform: if threatened

03:26:33 asciilifeform: (set off the thermite)

03:27:35 asciilifeform: this includes customs inspectors (who are supposes to stay the fuck away)

03:27:44 decimation: note the couriers watching the pouch cargo personally

03:28:06 asciilifeform: note also the 'pouch' quite large enough for a passenger car

03:28:28 danielpbarron: I don't like humor in professional communication. Not in code comments, not in technical manuals, not in user interfaces. << from the reddit thing on the mushroom thing

03:28:37 Chillum: This is a really good talk page the effectiveness(or lack there of) of tamper evident devices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIQml3MBJoE

03:28:38 assbot: DEFCON 19: Introduction to Tamper Evident Devices (w speaker) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy7Fvd )

03:29:03 Chillum: short story, they are not very good

03:29:26 Chillum: he shows how to remove and return the seals used on shipping containers

03:31:06 danielpbarron: Adlai, not if the seal and container are made of the same clay

03:31:15 asciilifeform: mass produced seals, sold commercially, are approximately as useful as the lock on a typical home door

03:31:18 asciilifeform: 'keep honest man honest'

03:31:35 Adlai: danielpbarron: ie, the entire container is a seal?

03:31:39 danielpbarron: Adlai, ya

03:32:23 Adlai: this is a valid approach

03:32:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : i would almost dare to suggest that the idiot seal was a deliberate smoke grenade to distract from the idiocy of the 'mycelium' produce itself

03:32:44 Adlai: or at least, s/is/seems/

03:32:44 danielpbarron: it's not economical / made more sense when voyages were so expensive

03:32:57 asciilifeform: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt << pete's summary

03:33:01 assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn't. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1y61MkH )

03:33:17 mircea_popescu: aka marketing item.

03:33:41 asciilifeform: i meant, not merely the seal, but the trivially bent box (as shown in film linked earlier)

03:33:48 danielpbarron: these days there isn't that much to verify that a shipment hasn't been tampered with; a shipping container is "sealed" with a metal peg coated in plastic and stamped with some numbers

03:34:02 Chillum: The problem with the mycelium key is the same printers that accept USB sticks also have internal memory

03:34:07 asciilifeform: classical gambit - fuck a goat, folks will forget that you also fuck babies and guinea pigs

03:34:12 Adlai: mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/#footnote_1_54701 << s/3rd/4th/?

03:34:13 assbot: The conference, third edition pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gy87tF )

03:34:23 Chillum: I like my solution better

03:34:24 Chillum: http://static.highinbc.com/20150313_194522.jpg

03:34:40 Chillum: tty thermal printer has no memory

03:34:48 mircea_popescu: Adlai right.

03:34:49 asciilifeform: Chillum: what is in the box ?

03:34:55 Chillum: a raspberry pi

03:35:01 Chillum: and a thermal receipt printer

03:35:07 Chillum: all controlled by 1 button

03:35:08 asciilifeform: i like thermal printers.

03:35:12 Adlai: not that it helps anyone

03:35:14 asciilifeform: happen to own one myself.

03:35:28 asciilifeform: they are good for printing onetimepads.

03:35:31 Chillum: It was a kit meant to print twitter feeds

03:35:35 asciilifeform: and system logs.

03:35:39 asciilifeform: (go delete that.)

03:35:57 Chillum: so I reimaged the sd with a base raspbian and wrote some python code to get addresses from vanitygen and print them

03:36:13 Chillum: no swap, use that runs vanitygen has read only access to drive and does everything in ram

03:36:20 Chillum: s/use/user/

03:36:43 Chillum: one time pads are cool

03:37:42 mircea_popescu: not a bad design.

03:37:51 Chillum: thanks. It was really fun making it

03:38:15 asciilifeform: only trouble spot is the rng

03:38:21 mircea_popescu: first time ppl that wander in here and a) aren't going to spaceghost the bitcoin ; b) aren't retarded.

03:38:22 asciilifeform: but other than that - sure

03:38:24 mircea_popescu: this is like...rare.

03:38:28 Chillum: the hwrng on the pi is better than the prng most computers use

03:38:30 asciilifeform: aha rare.

03:38:46 mircea_popescu: Chillum we don't trust it because very suspicious corp / closed turd.

03:38:46 asciilifeform: Chillum: it is not know for a fact to be anything other than prng

03:39:14 Chillum: my understanding is it is avalanche based

03:39:17 asciilifeform: and manufacturer has one of the worst histories of stonewalling and fraudulently 'open' source of any.

03:39:24 asciilifeform: understanding'

03:39:30 asciilifeform: means that one understands

03:39:35 asciilifeform: no?

03:39:47 Chillum: I agree it is integrated into a black box

03:40:05 asciilifeform: could be avalanche. could also be marsaglia seeded with phase of the moon.

03:40:13 asciilifeform: for all we can tell.

03:40:18 Chillum: though most entropy from PRNGs come from hard drive timings, which run black box firmware

03:40:21 nubbins`: that'd be pretty random.

03:40:34 asciilifeform: nubbins`: the number 3 is very random by same token.

03:40:56 nubbins`: works once, anyway.

03:41:07 Chillum: I doubt there is a modern computer out there that does not have some black box software or firmware

03:41:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, i will use this occasion to point out that prng is not deadly because enemy can somehow get the exact bits again

03:41:21 asciilifeform: but because of the known relationship between bit N and N+k

03:41:29 Chillum: it is possible to infect a hard drive with malware. Not the data, the firmware

03:41:34 asciilifeform: this can be used to narrow key class.

03:41:58 asciilifeform: Chillum: this has been known to the public for months, to me for years, and to #b-a for at least a year and a half.

03:42:12 mircea_popescu: Chillum this was actuallyt discussed in logs

03:42:13 Chillum: If I could hook up a little device to the usb or serial that gave me numbers I would be more confident in then I would do that

03:42:59 Chillum: depending on the price

03:43:42 Chillum: with 128 bits to a bitcoin key you do have some keyspace to play with

03:46:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00026172 = 11.0708 BTC [-]

03:47:55 decimation: asciilifeform: do you derp around with locks?

03:48:08 asciilifeform: decimation: did, at times

03:48:17 *: asciilifeform not mega-lockexpert

03:48:24 Chillum: I try to, but am not very good

03:48:32 *: asciilifeform read the mit guide and did the exercises like everybody else

03:48:59 decimation: asciilifeform: I'm toying with the idea of buying slightly better deadbolts

03:50:00 asciilifeform: if a house, with glass windows, etc. and not a vault - probably wasted money.

03:50:17 Chillum: only if it is your weakest point

03:51:12 decimation: aye, most breakins are 'kick-ins'

03:51:39 mircea_popescu: trivial to make windows bulletproof tho, these days.

03:51:42 mircea_popescu: get that foil thing

03:52:13 asciilifeform: wai wat

03:52:20 asciilifeform: bulletproof foil? made of what?

03:52:27 mircea_popescu: plastic, strong glue

03:52:28 asciilifeform: and if foil in window, why not brick?

03:52:39 mircea_popescu: it'll hold a brick too.

03:52:45 asciilifeform: no, brick in the widow

03:52:59 asciilifeform: why even have a window if covering in opaque armour

03:53:06 mircea_popescu: it's actually transparent

03:53:06 decimation: yes, they make laminate for window reinforcement

03:53:12 asciilifeform: ah 'lexan' replacements

03:53:30 asciilifeform: mega-expensive

03:53:40 decimation: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Markets-Products/Residential/Safety-Security_Window_Films/

03:53:47 mircea_popescu: not THAT expensive

03:54:18 mircea_popescu: decimation i was gonna say, 3m lol

03:54:24 decimation: yeah 3m makes good shit

03:55:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not policarbonate replacement for glass in window. it's a very highly adhesive foil, which you stick on the window

03:55:09 mircea_popescu: gives it immense plasticity as it were

03:55:12 decimation: if it's a 'random burglar' it might be enough to convince him to go elsewhere

03:55:13 asciilifeform: aha like in car.

03:55:17 mircea_popescu: right

03:55:18 decimation: yeah

03:55:27 mircea_popescu: http://solutions.3m.com/3MContentRetrievalAPI/BlobServlet?lmd=1290196235000&locale=en_WW&assetType=MMM_Image&assetId=1273657601352&blobAttribute=ImageFile << typical impact

03:55:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ylndf8 )

03:55:28 asciilifeform: so he break & then cuts with knife ?

03:55:30 mircea_popescu: omfg horrid site design

03:55:38 mircea_popescu: if he's willing to, yes. shitty job tho.

03:55:40 decimation: possibly, but it would take quite a bit of doing

03:55:51 mircea_popescu: best way really is torch

03:55:55 decimation: not the snatch n' grab job

03:55:55 mircea_popescu: shit'll melt/smoke

03:56:08 asciilifeform: and wouldn't it be in a sense counterproductive? as in, burglars will often themselves glue film to windows before breaking them, to silence the sound

03:56:36 asciilifeform: (traditional in usa)

03:56:42 mircea_popescu: different glue.

03:56:43 decimation: all these kinds of security gizmos are quite useless if there's not ability to summon a human to inspect what is going on

03:57:00 mircea_popescu: decimation makes door lock the weak point again is all.

03:57:02 asciilifeform: decimation: american security paraphernalia usually presumes owner is home with shotgun

03:57:16 decimation: they are also quite useless against a well-bezzled actor

03:57:33 mircea_popescu: i wonder what % of said paraphenalia is sold to protect your goods, and what % "ticket to shooting your own guy!"

03:58:02 asciilifeform: 'own goals' are not uncommon in usa

03:58:24 decimation: all I want is to 'run faster than you' away from the bear

03:59:34 decimation: if an army of bears wants to target me, not much can be done

03:59:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50019 @ 0.00025534 = 12.7719 BTC [-]

04:05:46 asciilifeform: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Markets-Products/Residential/Safety-Security_Window_Films << the 'break-in attempt' film is a mega-l0l

04:05:48 assbot: 3M Scotchshield Automotive Security Films - Clear and tinted Security films for cars, trucks - 3M Scotchshield ... ( http://bit.ly/1ylohzq )

04:07:22 decimation: lol like the mouse

04:07:30 asciilifeform: exactly the mouse

04:07:52 decimation: I suspect that this is 3m's target market

04:07:57 decimation: ghetto businesses

04:08:07 decimation: 'keeping honest thugs honest'

04:08:25 asciilifeform: not around here. nobody cancelled the traditional pull-down cage

04:10:20 nubbins`: "things changed since, and both GNU and BSD recent versions of tar have support for storing extended attributes. They use incompatible formats"

04:10:24 nubbins`: ^ current headache

04:14:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00026703 = 8.4381 BTC [+]

04:22:01 asciilifeform: 'It had an airport, railway and dungeons. Most of Pingfang was burnt by the Japanese to destroy evidence but the incinerator where the remains of victims were burnt remains and is still in use as part of a factory.' -- pediwikil0l

04:22:41 jurov: Chillum, I added microphone to the rng mix for similar rpi application

04:23:05 Chillum: how does that work?

04:23:20 Chillum: sound has entropy but it also has a lot of pattern

04:23:42 jurov: http://www.vanheusden.com/aed/

04:23:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ylqqv1 )

04:24:14 Chillum: watch out for humming fluorescent lights

04:24:25 Chillum: no amount of debiasing will create entropy from a patterned source

04:24:46 jurov: obv no

04:25:12 jurov: but it's something you can control, such as making suitable noise while the addy is generated

04:25:33 Chillum: sound cards also pick up radio signals

04:25:41 Chillum: the pi in particular has poor sheilding

04:26:06 Chillum: suitable noise?

04:26:10 Chillum: like a burp?

04:26:14 asciilifeform: pick up radio << interestingly my early-1990s 'gravis' stood head and shoulders above modern pc in this respect

04:26:33 Chillum: https://xkcd.com/1210/

04:26:34 assbot: xkcd: I'm So Random ... ( http://bit.ly/1CutsCm )

04:26:34 jurov: crunching paper or cookies bag comes to mind

04:26:53 jurov: or, as i have a window to busy street, i used that

04:26:57 Chillum: I think you over estimate your ability to create entropy with everday objects

04:27:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14399 @ 0.00026703 = 3.845 BTC [+]

04:27:07 Chillum: the results will be hard to predict though

04:27:27 asciilifeform: Chillum: ever play http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.html ?

04:27:29 assbot: Man vs. Machine. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CutBFV )

04:27:34 jurov: and you think since there will be some hum, any entropy is lost?

04:28:00 Chillum: the debiaser can't tell entropy from pattern

04:28:04 Chillum: it all gets mixed together

04:28:06 jurov: you can

04:28:20 jurov: and that's not what debiaser is doing

04:29:18 jurov: you can listen to the sample before using it, to check whether the noise is there

04:29:35 Chillum: got 50%

04:29:51 Chillum: noise itself is a repeating wave

04:29:53 Chillum: very ordered

04:30:05 Chillum: particularly noises made by objects

04:30:16 Chillum: sound I should say

04:30:50 Chillum: got 100% second try

04:30:54 Chillum: stupid computer

04:31:21 asciilifeform: Chillum: if you can predict wave from turbulent flow (e.g., water faucet) don't settle for small change. aeronautics and naval folks would like a word with you.

04:32:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61770 @ 0.00026745 = 16.5204 BTC [+] {2}

04:32:14 Chillum: if you have complete control of your noise source then I suppose it would work

04:32:35 Chillum: but so many noise sources are very orders and all around us. 60hz is all around us

04:32:42 Chillum: s/orders/ordered/

04:34:05 Chillum: Say I start creating variants on a 6hz tone and create keys with that tool. I may just make the same key as someone else who used it near a lamp

04:34:08 Chillum: 60hz

04:34:14 Chillum: or at least reduce my keyspace

04:34:37 asciilifeform: !s xor lemma

04:34:38 assbot: 1 results for 'xor lemma' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=xor+lemma

04:34:40 jurov: yes, if you insist using lamp and nothin else as your audio

04:34:43 asciilifeform: collect for a while.

04:34:56 asciilifeform: why hurry.

04:35:54 cazalla: scoopbot fetch http://qntra.net/2015/03/mycelium-entropy-devices-possibly-tampered-with-during-transit/

04:35:54 assbot: Mycelium Entropy Devices Possibly Tampered With During Transit | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1ylrWgE )

04:44:27 asciilifeform: ^ if it had cameratron (see earlier thread) we'd have more to laugh at than a torn box.

04:47:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 12 @ 0.10041665 = 1.205 BTC [+] {4}

04:59:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52400 @ 0.00026653 = 13.9662 BTC [-] {2}

05:05:45 pete_dushenski: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2015#1074455 << a h/t recipient is you!

05:05:45 assbot: Logged on 27-03-2015 13:13:27; nubbins`: pete_dushenski http://i.imgur.com/z1q3Uc5.png heehee!

05:06:22 nubbins`: WE WANTED SOME FEELS

05:06:25 pete_dushenski: Chillum: solid first day in b-a!

05:06:58 pete_dushenski: nubbins`: AND WE KNEW A GUY WHO PRINTED T-SHIRTS

05:07:18 pete_dushenski: hey, we also know a guy who prints t-shirts, don't we...

05:07:38 nubbins`: but what do we want to FUCK

05:07:50 nubbins`: NODELESSNESS

05:08:23 pete_dushenski: WOMENZ

05:08:33 Chillum: lol

05:09:15 pete_dushenski: SOCIALIST BUREAUCRACY

05:09:41 pete_dushenski: ^i'd wear this t-shirt actually

05:10:35 pete_dushenski: back should read: WITH A SPIKEY CACTUS

05:12:44 Chillum: I have a shirt that says "I read your e-mails"

05:13:15 pete_dushenski: heh.

05:13:41 pete_dushenski: i have one that says "bitinstant"

05:14:00 pete_dushenski: maybe one day i'll add "signs papers" to the back ;)

05:14:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60149 @ 0.00026652 = 16.0309 BTC [-]

05:34:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7532 @ 0.00026652 = 2.0074 BTC [-]

05:39:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21550 @ 0.00025547 = 5.5054 BTC [-]

05:41:17 pete_dushenski: "Women guaranteed at least 50% of jobs on Victorian government boards" << wd oz, get those numbers up!

05:41:42 pete_dushenski: because quotas based on stupidity will surely yield genius results

05:41:56 pete_dushenski: "we need 300,000 pairs of shoes"

05:42:10 pete_dushenski: and so what if they're all size 6 because there wasn't more leather

05:42:40 Chillum: hey everybody, we're all going to get laid!

05:44:45 pete_dushenski: at laaaast!

05:44:56 pete_dushenski: Monday 12 January 2015 will go down in confectionery history as a bad day. A hurtful day.

05:44:57 pete_dushenski: The day when it was revealed that Cadbury’s Creme Eggs have changed for ever.

05:44:57 pete_dushenski: No longer shall the egg shell be made from delicious Cadbury Dairy Milk chocolate. It will instead be made from disgusting, foul, vomit-inducing “standard cocoa mix chocolate”.

05:45:12 pete_dushenski: ^ok this is lulzy

05:45:27 pete_dushenski: The spokesman said the new chocolate had been tested on “consumers” – industry shorthand for “idiots”, clearly – and had been “found to be the best one for Creme Egg”.

05:46:07 pete_dushenski: Already, this egg announcement is threatening the stability of the UK government. What havoc will this monster wreak next?

05:46:08 pete_dushenski: Are we really going to swallow this bad egg, America? For that is what Cadbury has wrought. A bad egg. And today will for ever be known as a bad day.

05:46:19 pete_dushenski: ^mercy.

05:47:10 pete_dushenski: if a chocolate egg is unsettling the balance, by golly bitcoin barely needs to sneeze in the uk's general direction

05:47:47 Chillum: worst day in confectionary history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster

05:47:49 assbot: Boston Molasses Disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1G1fadC )

05:47:49 pete_dushenski: this article has to be a troll.

05:48:05 pete_dushenski: 21 dead!

05:48:09 pete_dushenski: oof.

05:48:21 Chillum: but the egg thing is bad too

05:49:33 pete_dushenski: in what way do you mean ?

05:50:10 mircea_popescu: <Chillum> no amount of debiasing will create entropy from a patterned source << howdja figure that one ?

05:50:39 Chillum: you can't create entropy with an algorithm

05:50:46 mircea_popescu: this is not the same.

05:50:53 mircea_popescu: you can debias with an algorithm.

05:51:13 Chillum: we were talking about sound as a source of data

05:51:27 mircea_popescu: sure. so what's wrong with a very banal von neuman ?

05:52:05 Chillum: you lost me there

05:52:46 pete_dushenski: "The Cadbury Creme Egg was a rare thing in this modern age. Its subtle blend of delicious chocolate and sweet, creamy/cremey yolk was a throwback to the days when chocolatiers took pride in their work." << right. the thing of which 500 mn are made per year, 2/3 of which are consumed in the uk (no wonder they have rotten teeth), is "boutique"

05:52:54 mircea_popescu: there's this algorithm which consists of : flip biased coin twice. if flips agree, one thing. iof they disagree, another thing.

05:53:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00025547 = 16.3629 BTC [-]

05:53:29 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski gotta reposition!

05:53:44 mircea_popescu: Chillum http://mathoverflow.net/questions/152107/proof-of-von-neumanns-debiasing-algorithm etc.

05:53:46 assbot: pr.probability - Proof of Von Neumann's debiasing algorithm - MathOverflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nnh6xA )

05:53:47 Chillum: but if the source is a lamp humming 60hz how does the algo filter the pattern from the entropy without diluting the entropy?

05:54:32 Chillum: I know that algo, it removes bunching. It does not remove more complex patterns

05:54:55 mircea_popescu: it doesn't "dilute" anything. if you have 1 bit of entropy per byte, it puts out one byte every eightish bytes.

05:55:01 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: sounds like 'repositioning' the creme egg in the uk is akin to 'repositioning' baby george's nose from his face to his ass.

05:55:04 mircea_popescu: it removes bias, basically.

05:55:33 Chillum: bias is only one type of pattern though

05:55:41 Chillum: there is also periodicity

05:55:42 mircea_popescu: in the case of your lamp, it basically extracts phase transition errors

05:55:49 mircea_popescu: expect ~1/2 bit per phase change

05:56:09 Chillum: my point was that debiasing will not remove periodic patterns

05:56:16 Chillum: that are not next to each other

05:56:27 mircea_popescu: ...

05:57:00 Chillum: perhaps I am not getting it

05:57:10 mircea_popescu: well im certainly unsure what it is you're saying.

05:58:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.0002547 = 9.8314 BTC [-] {2}

05:58:48 mircea_popescu: i mean, a biased source is a biased source. do you mean it's not actually biased, but the bits are correlated ?

05:59:11 mircea_popescu: something like "always output 0 if the previous 7th output was 1" or whatever ?

06:04:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93050 @ 0.00025464 = 23.6943 BTC [-]

06:05:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102156 @ 0.00025566 = 26.1172 BTC [+] {2}

06:07:52 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2015#1075431 << canada idem. cra can be plenty annoying.

06:07:52 assbot: Logged on 27-03-2015 23:32:15; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> who the fuck explains their income ? <ben_vulpes> in the states, if they think they have a case they freeze your assets. << aha. sit on the stake until explained, yes.

06:08:07 pete_dushenski: "The CRA has broad powers to investigate suspected tax cheats. In the process of conducting a civil audit to assess how much tax a person really owes, the tax agency can call up bank records, freeze accounts, compel the release of business, payroll and other records, and root through land registries and other government data." << sop

06:08:30 mircea_popescu: it can do whatever the fuck it feels like, with its own data.

06:08:52 mircea_popescu: it can't ask me "hey where you got your money from". unless im a politician and submitted some sort of "this is what my fortune is" statement.

06:09:19 pete_dushenski: it can't ask "what was this line from this person from on your bank statement" ?

06:09:35 pete_dushenski: i was under the impression that every line had to be explained.

06:10:00 mircea_popescu: that's income.

06:10:36 pete_dushenski: a yes, twas my focus

06:11:04 pete_dushenski: you're saying they can't ask "from whence ferrari?"

06:11:04 mircea_popescu: it's not a question of "where it's from", but "why have you not reported it". which ideally you have reported.

06:11:38 pete_dushenski: agreed

06:12:00 mircea_popescu: "how come you have something" != "how come you told us earlier this income is extempt when it clearly isn't"

06:12:47 pete_dushenski: also agreed

06:14:06 pete_dushenski: so income has to be explained, possessions not.

06:14:32 pete_dushenski: got it

06:14:38 mircea_popescu: you come riding at the border in a flying submarine

06:14:46 mircea_popescu: "do you have title for it ?" "here it is"

06:14:51 mircea_popescu: "how come you got it ?" "fuck you."

06:15:20 pete_dushenski: "your mom gave it to me for my birthday"

06:15:37 mircea_popescu: "but our records don't show us selliung you one"

06:15:41 mircea_popescu: "that might be because you suck."

06:15:55 trinque: "looks like a cocaine running air submarine to me"

06:16:05 pete_dushenski: "keep better records, derp"

06:17:37 mircea_popescu: trinque kinda why sane people don't travel into rogue states without an army.

06:17:51 trinque: mhm

06:18:59 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: fraudsters.com gives me this: http://imgur.com/0KA8yFc

06:19:00 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1NnjULf )

06:19:00 trinque: in my lifetime the perception that rule of law is either real or honest seems to have been fading

06:19:06 pete_dushenski: but www.fraudsters.com works just fine.

06:19:20 trinque: dunno that there ever was a time where rule of law did matter here; I'm neither old enough nor educated enough to say

06:19:33 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski hm i see it ?

06:20:03 mircea_popescu: you must have some weird dns issue ? what's the perceived ip ?

06:20:06 trinque: working here

06:20:52 mircea_popescu: who the fuck hijacks blog dns's ? and also... www just goes to plain domain.

06:22:36 trinque: mircea_popescu: it's the https

06:22:55 pete_dushenski: i see 23.235.235.243

06:23:23 pete_dushenski: ^using random look up tool

06:23:33 mircea_popescu: that's right. but yeah, no https svp

06:24:38 pete_dushenski: aha

06:24:54 pete_dushenski: weird that the browser defaulted to https

06:25:06 pete_dushenski: because i definitely never specified it

06:25:09 trinque: pete_dushenski: got the "ssl everywhere" extension?

06:25:45 pete_dushenski: just flashblock, noscript, adblock

06:25:52 *: trinque shrugs

06:25:56 trinque: ass gremlins

06:26:08 pete_dushenski: unless one of those bakes in ssl everyfuckingwhere

06:26:24 pete_dushenski: ya, let's chalk it up to ass grems and call it a day

06:34:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31882 @ 0.0002682 = 8.5508 BTC [+] {2}

06:35:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54818 @ 0.00027047 = 14.8266 BTC [+]

06:51:29 pete_dushenski: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/mar/12/what-a-masculinity-conference-taught-me-about-the-state-of-men

06:51:30 assbot: What a masculinity conference taught me about the state of men | Life and style | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGm4om )

06:52:29 pete_dushenski: is there nothing unworthy of having a conference about ?

06:53:29 pete_dushenski: mebbe "bitcoind pogo afficionados" is near the threshold for obscurity

06:57:09 mircea_popescu: lol

06:57:19 mircea_popescu: masculinity conferences ahahaha.

07:05:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34158 @ 0.00026676 = 9.112 BTC [-]

07:14:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00026699 = 3.2439 BTC [+] {2}

07:17:03 mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Underwear_rule << ahahaha. fucking retards.

07:17:04 assbot: Wikipedia:Underwear rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGoiUS )

07:17:14 mircea_popescu: they're not NAKED. they're in their jimbo blessed underwear.

07:17:54 mircea_popescu: such a sad epitome of mediocrity, that thing.

07:34:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00027047 = 21.8945 BTC [+]

07:43:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29081 @ 0.00026344 = 7.6611 BTC [-] {2}

08:05:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65500 @ 0.00026717 = 17.4996 BTC [+]

08:15:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72160 @ 0.00026418 = 19.0632 BTC [-] {2}

08:27:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63810 @ 0.00025852 = 16.4962 BTC [-]

08:49:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81600 @ 0.00025852 = 21.0952 BTC [-]

09:11:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122800 @ 0.00025852 = 31.7463 BTC [-] {2}

09:33:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4030 @ 0.00025852 = 1.0418 BTC [-]

09:38:26 mats: http://nytimes.com/2015/03/28/technology/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-case-decision.html

09:38:29 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/19rN6Dl )

09:39:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00026248 = 7.5332 BTC [+]

10:04:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30744 @ 0.00027081 = 8.3258 BTC [+] {3}

10:16:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37234 @ 0.00026856 = 9.9996 BTC [-] {2}

10:45:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189470 @ 0.00026209 = 49.6582 BTC [-] {2}

10:48:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00025439 = 5.1005 BTC [-] {2}

11:04:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44865 @ 0.00025894 = 11.6173 BTC [+]

11:09:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152335 @ 0.00025302 = 38.5438 BTC [-] {4}

11:10:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72365 @ 0.00025006 = 18.0956 BTC [-] {2}

11:29:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35896 @ 0.00026181 = 9.3979 BTC [+] {2}

11:33:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190833 @ 0.00025329 = 48.3361 BTC [-] {3}

11:35:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86423 @ 0.00025418 = 21.967 BTC [+]

11:35:51 nubbins`: <+pete_dushenski> No longer shall the egg shell be made from delicious Cadbury Dairy Milk chocolate. It will instead be made from disgusting, foul, vomit-inducing “standard cocoa mix chocolate”. <<< you think that's bad? get this: in the usa, cadbury chocolate is manufactured by /hershey's/. and they don't even get the milk from jersey cows.

11:42:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36426 @ 0.00024933 = 9.0821 BTC [-] {2}

11:46:25 funkenstein_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdZJFfQt8E <-- how to apologize gracefully

11:46:26 assbot: ON A PERSONAL NOTE - Deek Jackson - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1EfJMJh )

11:54:19 nubbins`: "that's such an /american/ thing, hey? 'mentoring'? movin' to a big city and getting yourself a mentor or five?"

11:54:22 nubbins`: lel, my wife

11:55:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35777 @ 0.00025418 = 9.0938 BTC [+]

11:55:58 nubbins`: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30ki71/please_return_the_red_notebook/

11:56:00 assbot: Please return the red notebook : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1EfLudD )

11:56:09 nubbins`: "Hey guys I am down at the Texas Bitcoin Conference and someone took my red notebook. There was not a whole lot of valuable info in it but it was a gift. If you saw it tonight at marias taco xpress or know where it wound up please notify me. I thought this was outside bitcoiners' character but I am never surprised in this space"

11:56:17 nubbins`: first comment: "Don't know if this is an actual notebook or a laptop" hahaha

12:19:03 nubbins`: okay, sweet. i've got a 60GB SSD and a 64gb UHS-1 SD card on the way.

12:19:21 nubbins`: curious to see how much the SD chokes

12:28:19 nubbins`: and finally found a good price for purple pogos, two of them on the way

12:33:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33868 @ 0.00026964 = 9.1322 BTC [+]

12:49:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00026988 = 13.9798 BTC [+]

12:58:22 funkenstein_: nubbins what ever happened to that wood carving with your name on it?

12:58:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34432 @ 0.00026964 = 9.2842 BTC [-]

13:05:13 nubbins`: funkenstein_ the guy wouldn't sell it to me. total fraud.

13:05:47 funkenstein_: lol, that sucks. well at least you got some pictures :)

13:06:28 nubbins`: and an hour-long video

13:06:48 nubbins`: o hey i took everyone's advice and started a blog

13:06:55 nubbins`: BUT NONE OF YOU WILL FIND IT INTERESTING AHAHAHAHAHAH

13:08:00 funkenstein_: lol i'm with you on that one

13:08:43 nubbins`: but just in case: http://madcaptomfoolery.ca

13:08:44 assbot: madcap tomfoolery | we write, you read. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymqkmS )

13:12:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00026465 = 15.1909 BTC [-]

13:18:03 nubbins`: http://www.theonion.com/articles/biden-worries-legalized-weed-in-dc-will-cut-into-h,38210/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:3:Default

13:18:04 assbot: Biden Worries Legalized Weed In D.C. Will Cut Into His Business | The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1ymrnTY )

13:18:16 nubbins`: "Claiming that his operation would be “completely dicked over” by an influx of product, Vice President Joe Biden reportedly became increasingly worried this week that the recent legalization of marijuana in Washington, D.C. could seriously cut into his business."

13:18:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17336 @ 0.00026701 = 4.6289 BTC [+] {2}

13:22:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110482 @ 0.000272 = 30.0511 BTC [+] {2}

13:23:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22875 @ 0.00027256 = 6.2348 BTC [+] {2}

13:24:11 nubbins`: nubbins`:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/bianca-s-gift-cards-no-longer-accepted-at-bistro-sofia-and-black-sea-1.3011771 <<< reports are that employees are owed a month's wages too :o

13:28:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44750 @ 0.00026374 = 11.8024 BTC [-] {2}

13:33:26 nubbins`: http://shop.lululemon.com/products/clothes-accessories/mens-pants-to-and-from/ABC-Pant-Regular

13:33:28 assbot: abc pant (regular) | men's pants | lululemon athletica ... ( http://bit.ly/1xIDIae )

13:33:33 nubbins`: ABC (anti-ball crushing) engineering gives you and the family jewels room to breathe

13:33:47 chetty: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/27/fabricated-peer-reviews-prompt-scientific-journal-to-retract-43-papers-systematic-scheme-may-affect-other-journals/?tid=pm_national_pop

13:33:48 assbot: Major publisher retracts 43 scientific papers amid wider fake peer-review scandal - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1xIDOig )

13:40:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163050 @ 0.00025707 = 41.9153 BTC [-] {4}

13:41:15 nubbins`: a peer review and citation ring

13:41:23 nubbins`: like a web ring, but funner and in meatspace

13:41:43 nubbins`: and with the potential to set back scientific research :S

13:51:06 chetty: <nubbins`> and with the potential to set back scientific research :S// is that even possible?

13:52:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61960 @ 0.00026226 = 16.2496 BTC [+]

13:52:19 nubbins`: i'm beginning to think not

14:08:34 nubbins`: http://cointelegraph.com/news/113811/bitcoin-embassy-amsterdam-founder-booted-from-organization-starts-second-embassy

14:08:36 assbot: Bitcoin Embassy Amsterdam Founder Booted From Organization, Starts Second Embassy ... ( http://bit.ly/19sugvK )

14:08:45 nubbins`: mega-lel @ lead-in photo

14:10:11 Chillum: haha "screw you guys, I am going to start my own embassy with blackjack and hookers!"

14:10:37 Chillum: "in fact, forget about the embassy!"

14:10:38 PeterL: When does #b-a start our own emabassies?

14:10:55 Chillum: well, they declared a tax so an embassy must be around the corner

14:12:01 chetty: ppfft on embassy, let them come here to the capital

14:12:30 PeterL: hardware b-a is our capital now?

14:12:33 Chillum: capital of bitcoin? Like "B"?

14:14:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00027261 = 7.4968 BTC [+]

14:14:45 chetty: oops capitol ;P -- on theother hand I like the B idea better

14:16:20 Chillum: never seen that spelling before

14:16:34 Chillum: I have been spelling that wrong my what life

14:16:41 Chillum: damn teachers

14:18:09 chetty: thats edumacation these days

14:22:25 PeterL: 'capitol' is specifically the building where the legislature meets, 'capital' is the city

14:23:56 Chillum: I did not know that

14:29:31 nubbins`: soooooo, the pogoplug mobile (non-sata) has solder pads for attaching a SATA connector

14:30:31 nubbins`: and: the heat sink is on the bottom of the board, so you can take off the lid without repercussion

14:31:59 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/qgwY3YO

14:31:59 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/19sy8x0 )

14:32:16 nubbins`: you can see it just south of the middle there

14:32:24 nubbins`: asciilifeform danielpbarron etc ^

14:35:03 Chillum: nice

14:35:14 Chillum: what does it do?

14:36:19 felipelalli: Hi Chillum!

14:36:55 Chillum: Hello

14:37:41 nubbins`: Chillum eventually it'll be running bitcoind

14:38:20 Chillum: Nice. I tried that on a Pi 1 but it chocked

14:38:22 nubbins`: this particular one got its NAND rewritten in a not-fun way, so i'm gonna be adding a serial port

14:38:33 Chillum: Trying now on a Pi 2 and it is going well( at 250,000 block)

14:38:36 nubbins`: Chillum prolly 'cause you're using the latest phoundation bloatware

14:39:45 nubbins`: if you've a mind to try again on your pi1 (and have a cross-compile toolchain set up), i'd suggest http://thebitcoin.foundation/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE.tar.gz

14:39:46 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19szBmZ )

14:41:11 nubbins`: running it on my macbook now, ~ block 180k

14:41:42 Chillum: There is so little information on that site about what the changes actually are or how they have been audited. It seems to have been made in November. It would be a bit like running a custom code version of PGP

14:41:55 Chillum: the security implications are significant

14:42:09 Chillum: is there a changelog?

14:42:14 nubbins`: yes

14:42:19 nubbins`: it's based on the historical 0.5.3

14:42:32 nubbins`: with a bunch of plain unix patches applied

14:43:18 nubbins`: there's a RELEASE NOTES included that lists the patches applied

14:43:23 Chillum: I will keep an eye on the project

14:43:38 nubbins`: but if you're so inclined, you could actually just grab legacy 0.5.3 from your favourite source, and apply the patches listed on the site

14:43:51 nubbins`: they're all small enough that you can fit each one inside your head enough to understand it

14:43:57 Chillum: Glad it is still being worked on. But frankly I would like to see a complete re-write of the client

14:44:01 nubbins`: yeah

14:44:06 nubbins`: well, that's an eventual goal

14:44:15 nubbins`: right now people are just ripping the turds out

14:44:18 Chillum: just like the bittorrent reference client sucked(but did what it needed too, reference the protocol) so does bitcoind

14:44:19 nubbins`: QT support, upnp, etc

14:44:23 felipelalli: I want to buy 1 BTC in Monero. Here is a good place to ask?

14:44:57 Chillum: If anything QT should have nothing to do with bitcoin other than being in a client that accesses the daemon

14:45:02 nubbins`: Chillum http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=R8c8QBKd

14:45:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19sAA6x )

14:45:04 Chillum: a thin frontend

14:45:33 Chillum: and the API needs to spit out parsed block data on demand so that 3rd party apps can work with the data

14:45:45 nubbins`: yeah

14:45:55 nubbins`: anyway, check out that pastebin, that's the release notes for 0.5.3.1

14:46:03 nubbins`: all the patches are written by people in here, and pgp-signed

14:46:17 Chillum: "Removes OpenSSL Handshake for RPC commands" Isn't that important?

14:46:39 Chillum: can't I just MITM the connection without that?

14:47:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67200 @ 0.00027261 = 18.3194 BTC [+]

14:47:53 nubbins`: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141112/bitcoin-asciilifeform_ea4c4745bc4b10fc19bf0a2be7d0797dfd948a33.2-https_snipsnip.patch

14:47:53 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19sB24G )

14:47:56 nubbins`: there's the patch, you tell me 8)

14:49:35 Chillum: I am sure the change makes it run faster which is great for embedded devices that don't need to worry _too_ much about malware on the machine

14:49:54 nubbins`: the idea here is to get a bare-bones reference implementation

14:50:00 nubbins`: it might come with some sharp corners

14:50:03 Chillum: but I am making a security app for a client. Security is a priority over speed.

14:50:11 Chillum: May try that out for my own purposes

14:50:24 nubbins`: asciilifeform would be the one to question about the specifics of it 8)

14:50:26 Chillum: I just need to make a $100 node

14:50:59 Chillum: I can understand it. It is removing a security layer, presumably for speed

14:51:28 Chillum: though all of that can be disabled in config

14:51:40 nubbins`: sure

14:52:03 Chillum: better hope nobody packet sniffs your API access.

14:52:09 nubbins`: this whole thing started with asciilifeform wishing he had bitcoin source code in dead-tree form

14:52:16 Chillum: if it is all internal it should be fine

14:52:42 Chillum: my box needs to expose its API though

14:53:22 Chillum: A great idea for a light node though, if the security situation permits it

14:53:58 Chillum: The page could use more information about the security implications and the expected use case though. Someone might get told it is the latest and greatest and not realize security has been bypassed

14:54:36 Chillum: really SSL is not using that much horse power compared to the other stuff the client does

14:56:18 felipelalli: Why assbot isn't in #bitcoin-otc channel?

14:56:34 Chillum: In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out

14:56:51 nubbins`: felipelalli why otcbot isn't in #bitcoin-assets channel?

14:57:05 felipelalli: gribble is here.

14:57:09 PeterL: what would assbot do in -otc?

14:57:18 Chillum: sell his ass

14:57:40 felipelalli: I thought assbot also worked as a gribble backup?

14:57:57 Chillum: the bandwidth that goes through the API is so small that the SSL module would be using a negligible amount of resources

14:58:02 PeterL: assbot is a gribble replacement

15:00:33 felipelalli: PeterL: replacement, not backup? hmmm, but if it is a replacement, why it isn't in #bitcoin-otc so?

15:00:34 nubbins`: ah, found it.

15:00:37 nubbins`: Chillum http://explo.yt/post/2014/10/29/some-dangerous-idea

15:00:38 assbot: A dangerous idea - serialized delusions ... ( http://bit.ly/19sDtnZ )

15:00:59 PeterL: well, not really replacement, just not a backup

15:01:24 PeterL: they make a more resilient system with two nodes rather than one

15:01:32 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-10-2014#864597 << my sides

15:01:32 assbot: Logged on 08-10-2014 17:48:30; mircea_popescu: how's slotful lust ?

15:02:04 nubbins`: felipelalli here's a question. you bake a cake. why didn't you bake your neighbour one?

15:02:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154701 @ 0.00027278 = 42.1993 BTC [+] {2}

15:02:41 felipelalli: lol

15:02:56 felipelalli: I'm sorry.

15:03:53 nubbins`: :D

15:04:06 nubbins`: if -otc wants a new bot, someone there can set one up

15:04:29 nubbins`: i doubt kakobrekla wants to do it, since he doesn't idle in -otc :D

15:06:39 felipelalli: I was asking because gribble is kind of "universal", it is in everywhere, including here, and also in #bitcoin-bra --- I thought assbot was a kind of universal WoT like gribble.

15:06:48 nubbins`: nah

15:06:53 nubbins`: assbot = assets bot

15:06:59 nubbins`: !t m s.mg

15:06:59 assbot: [MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.00009 / 0.00009033 / 0.000091 (15000 shares, 1.36 BTC)

15:07:08 Chillum: ahhh, did not get the name

15:07:14 nubbins`: neither did my wife 8)

15:07:36 Chillum: no honey, I swear the assbot is for strictly business purposes!

15:07:40 nubbins`: HEH

15:07:57 nubbins`: every time she'd open my laptop, 5 seconds later an onjoin alert from assbot pops up on screen

15:08:04 nubbins`: ater some weeks: "...what's assbot?"

15:08:08 nubbins`: *after

15:08:34 PeterL: #b-a is special, we get a special bot

15:09:11 nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/O2GQeHh.jpg

15:09:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19sFpwR )

15:10:24 thestringpuller: I'm thinking of making a bot to determine uptime of other bots ;)

15:10:43 Chillum: and I will make one to monitor the uptime of yours

15:10:54 mod6: !t m s.mpoe

15:10:54 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00024754 / 0.00026065 / 0.00027314 (5037215 shares, 1,312.97 BTC), 7D: 0.0001443 / 0.00024169 / 0.00028483 (19175310 shares, 4,634.62 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00032777 / 0.0004493 (91445718 shares, 29,973.86 BTC)

15:11:06 PeterL: thestringpuller: are you picking on scoopbot? ;)

15:12:53 danielpbarron: height=302648 vs height=217961

15:13:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00027101 = 6.8837 BTC [-]

15:14:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103204 @ 0.00027313 = 28.1881 BTC [+] {4}

15:21:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80660 @ 0.00027438 = 22.1315 BTC [+] {2}

15:27:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11075 @ 0.00027449 = 3.04 BTC [+]

15:29:43 nubbins`: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/future-shop-stores-closed-across-canada-some-to-become-best-buy-1.3013534

15:29:45 assbot: Future Shop stores closed across Canada, some to become Best Buy - Business - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/19sJQri )

15:30:00 nubbins`: i always wondered why there was a Future Shop and a Best Buy less than a block away from each other

15:32:15 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/kC4xLV2

15:32:15 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mg6FAF )

15:32:21 nubbins`: ^ quebec city, march 26 2015

15:36:51 nubbins`: lel, protestors have started doxxing the riot police

15:38:39 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpddwSIIYP8

15:38:39 assbot: Canada cops unleash tear gas at close range on anti-austerity protesters in Quebec - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/19sLxVT )

15:38:41 nubbins`: o, canada!

15:42:26 mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUlaDdNk5g << me discovering pogues

15:42:27 assbot: Tommy's Blue Valentine - Pogues' Cait O'Riordan on lead vocals - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/19sMnBQ )

15:47:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16899 @ 0.00027449 = 4.6386 BTC [+]

15:50:29 Chillum: nubbins`: they use pepper spray around here

15:50:34 mircea_popescu: -NickServ- m_p!~matter_pa@49.207.189.76 failed to login to mircea_popescu. There has been 1 failed login attempt since your last successful login. << check it out ?!

15:57:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00026917 = 4.051 BTC [-] {2}

15:59:22 mod6: huh

15:59:35 mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2015_March_20#Cogobuy << wikilulz of the day. guy makes article about bn dollar chinese company, is told "This is an encyclopedia .... Not a website advertisement service, There are a million and one ways to advertise your company and this place certainly isn't one of them"

15:59:51 mircea_popescu: apparently wikipedia is keenly aware it exists primarily as an advertising source. just... not for the fucking chinese aaaite ?

16:00:31 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076676 << see teh logs

16:00:31 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:56:34; Chillum: In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out

16:00:33 Chillum: how can we not be aware?

16:00:37 pete_dushenski: !s ssl

16:00:38 assbot: 240 results for 'ssl' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ssl

16:01:24 pete_dushenski: ssl provides much security theatre and little apparent security

16:01:52 Chillum: okay

16:02:09 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski seems to be the consensus.

16:02:10 Chillum: I still think my clients would prefer their api keys encrypted

16:02:35 pete_dushenski: ah yes, "what the customer has come to expect"

16:02:42 mircea_popescu: Chillum i suspek you have to do a bunch of log reading to acclimate to the groupthink.

16:03:07 Chillum: I never was very good at group think

16:03:18 Chillum: my own damn opinions keep getting in the way

16:03:33 pete_dushenski: it's a strong brew here ;)

16:03:35 asciilifeform: 'When he was returned to Springfield four years later, after slashing his wrists and writing ?American Gulag? in blood on his bedsheets, the doctor wrote, ?Considerations that [Powers] has some form of psychosis, thought disorder or mental illness are unfounded.?' << mega-l0l

16:03:39 mircea_popescu: yes, that's the problem there : in order to have your own oppinions you need to study the groupthink.

16:03:43 asciilifeform: ( http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/inside-americas-toughest-federal-prison.html?from=promo&_r=0 )

16:03:46 assbot: Log In ... ( http://bit.ly/1D09pMR )

16:03:49 Chillum: not sure that I do

16:03:50 mircea_popescu: otherwise, you're just passing (to yourself, at least) groupthink as oppinions.

16:04:14 Chillum: most ssl vulnerabilities come from poor cert checking

16:04:25 mircea_popescu: "most stds come from whores"

16:04:36 Chillum: exactly, not a reason to stop fucking

16:04:40 asciilifeform: Chillum: why do you not consider the existence of the master keys a vulnerability ?

16:04:58 mircea_popescu: ssl != fucking in this simile

16:05:55 Chillum: it is for perfect forward secrecy isn't it?

16:06:47 Chillum: how is using plaintext instead of SSL better?

16:06:51 Chillum: security is about layers

16:07:05 mircea_popescu: a turdstack is not a better pancake "because layers".

16:07:25 asciilifeform: Chillum: you may live on a planet where plaintext is the only alternative to ssl, but here on the third rock from sol there are other cryptosystems

16:07:33 mircea_popescu: in most practical scenarios, the only enemy any user will ever encounter is the usg.

16:07:40 mircea_popescu: security solutions that avoid this point are exercises in disinfo.

16:08:04 Chillum: In most practical scenarios the enemy is a person trying to steal bitcoins

16:08:16 mircea_popescu: not a person, but the government of the united states

16:08:21 mircea_popescu: to date, the most successful bitcoin thief

16:08:28 asciilifeform: ^

16:08:29 mircea_popescu: (if we credit its usms fake auction sums)

16:09:51 mircea_popescu: now, this entire "yeah the usg is your main enemy but whatever, you don't really want to protect your fucking tweets from them anyway" worked to propose turdstack = pancake.

16:10:01 Chillum: I have worked in computer security for 15 years. While many implementations of SSL host checking are flawed and the hierarchial trust model is a joke the underlying encryption is solid until some learns to find prime factors of large numbers easily.

16:10:13 mircea_popescu: with the advent of bitcoins, things have changed. a stolen bitcoin is a stolen bitcoin no matter how the theft was perpetuated, or under what color of law.

16:10:13 asciilifeform: Chillum: i am the one who cut the ssl idiocy from therealbitcoin's bitcoind. and i did it for reasons which had nothing to do with memory footprint (we did not have an embedded device project yet)

16:10:19 Chillum: I saw the diff

16:10:42 mircea_popescu: Chillum but they do in fact ALL accept verisign master keys.

16:10:43 asciilifeform: Chillum: if you worked in security, did you sleep through 'heartbleed' ?

16:10:47 Chillum: I think it should come with a big "NO SSL" warning next to the download so people are not caught unaware

16:10:57 mats: lol

16:11:01 Chillum: I am aware of heartbleed, an implementation failure

16:11:10 mircea_popescu: wait.what ?!

16:11:13 Chillum: plaintext also has a history of failure

16:11:15 asciilifeform: Chillum: we have a 'read the fucking source before you build and run it' warning, does that count ?

16:11:22 Chillum: I am glad I did

16:11:29 Chillum: read the patches before running it

16:11:32 mircea_popescu: "an implementation failure" ? the time we took out usg's most valuable asset and publicly shot it in the head was "an implementation failure" "?

16:11:37 mircea_popescu: what was tikrit then ?

16:11:46 mats: have you read the openssl code Chillum?

16:11:47 funkenstein_: chillum its not the encryption thats broken its the authentication

16:12:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, is the "valued crypto" bit starting to fuzz over there ?

16:12:31 asciilifeform: Chillum: did you also sleep through, e.g., 'stuxnet' having a perfectly legal ssl cert ?

16:13:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: valued ?

16:13:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform didn't you use to bemoan the fact that "no valued crypto stuff is ever leaked" ?

16:13:43 Chillum: so because ssl has had problems it is better to use plain text?

16:13:44 mircea_popescu: maybe it just doesn't look like what you expect is iall.

16:13:49 Chillum: security is layers, that is how the industry works

16:13:54 mats: lol

16:14:07 mircea_popescu: Chillum "i like turd pancakes, it's my groupthink"

16:14:08 mircea_popescu: srsly...

16:14:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 0day isn't a cryptodirectorat affair

16:14:14 Chillum: SSL will stop all but the most advanced of attackers

16:14:15 mats: use other crypto

16:14:22 Chillum: okay sure, turd pancakes

16:14:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 0days live in the 0day directorat.

16:14:25 Chillum: love em,

16:14:27 Chillum: nom nom nom

16:14:36 mircea_popescu: "ssl will stop all but the actual attacks you will encounter"

16:14:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you wrote the meta-nsa micromanagement three ring binder too ?

16:14:57 Chillum: actual encounters = some script kiddie running ettercap to intercept your traffic

16:14:58 funkenstein_: Chillum, go listen to moxie marlinspike's talks on the topic

16:15:18 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no but did read the table of directorates circa 2003 (see log ~6mo ago)

16:15:21 Chillum: not all attackers are people in dark server rooms with ciggerette smoking g men behind them

16:15:25 mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ incidentally, about 5x better than sending someone to go listen to something is transcribing the something so they can read it.

16:15:38 funkenstein_: good point

16:15:41 mircea_popescu: Chillum just all the ones you should practically care about.

16:15:55 mircea_popescu: get your security to where usg fails, you'll do fine.

16:16:00 asciilifeform: ^

16:16:05 funkenstein_: nokia was caught capturing all ssl traffic through their networks at one point

16:16:06 mircea_popescu: get it to any other standard, you'll do as bad as all the schmucks on windows

16:16:28 Chillum: It is clear I have stumbled into a religious debate. I have no more interest in changing your mind about SSL than I do with you changing my mind. I will run SSL on my bitcoind API if you don't mind.

16:16:32 funkenstein_: sslsniff is a tool you can use to capture ssl data

16:16:36 funkenstein_: if you are a script kiddie

16:16:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84000 @ 0.00027191 = 22.8404 BTC [+]

16:16:48 asciilifeform: Chillum: you can run feathercoin on tops-10 for all we care

16:16:51 mircea_popescu: Chillum definitely can run whatever the heck you please.

16:17:13 mircea_popescu: but a debate doesn't become religious by declaratory relief from having to think about it.

16:17:16 Chillum: I certainly did not mean to offend anyone by saying SSL is not a turd, if this is a controversial statement I will keep it to myself

16:17:17 funkenstein_: but when and why would bitcoind use ssl?

16:17:32 asciilifeform: Chillum: but if you are interested in actually learning something, try to understand how we reached this particular conclusion

16:17:37 mircea_popescu: offending people is required to participate here i thought.

16:17:40 funkenstein_: all of bitcoin communications are plaintext and public right?

16:17:59 Chillum: asciilifeform: nobody is disputing that SSL has issues, but plaintext is not a better alternative

16:18:12 asciilifeform: let's take it in pieces. plaintext of what ?

16:18:26 mircea_popescu: Chillum have you seen the numerous cases where we pass back and forth "plaintext" over pastebin here ?

16:18:32 mircea_popescu: it starts generally with five dashes.

16:18:40 Chillum: I am going to get some fresh air

16:18:45 funkenstein_: all TXs, block DL requests, block solution reports, node announcements etc.

16:19:01 funkenstein_: are plaintext

16:19:11 mircea_popescu: well.. "plaintext"

16:19:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39300 @ 0.00027449 = 10.7875 BTC [+]

16:20:00 Chillum: API

16:20:09 Chillum: along with it api keys

16:20:38 mircea_popescu: i don't think that's a supported usecase as of yet ? mebbe i'm behind here.

16:20:43 asciilifeform: api of what ?

16:20:46 asciilifeform: bitcoind ?

16:20:55 ben_vulpes: 0.5.3.1?

16:20:58 ben_vulpes: has use cases?

16:21:01 asciilifeform: Chillum: were you speaking of a 'hotwallet' ?

16:21:22 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes troll.

16:21:56 ben_vulpes: <Chillum> [14:55] In my opinion SSL is not a turd to be ripped out << dude this is a something like 4 month long project going on here

16:21:57 Chillum: yes I am building a full node on a raspberry pi 2 to be used as a hot wallet

16:22:12 ben_vulpes: there is more context in this channel than dreamt of in all of reddit, Chillum

16:22:51 ben_vulpes: maybe instead of "herp derp i pinions bros" you might start by asking "why did you rip TLS out with such anger and speed?"

16:23:02 Chillum: if you were not using a wallet then I agree SSL is pointless

16:23:12 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he's not from reddit, he's from wikipedia. pls to not insult teh muggles with misidentification.

16:23:14 asciilifeform: Chillum: if you are presently living in a one-bit universe where the only two choices for hotwallet control are ssl and plaintext - first you have to consider moving out of that universe and into a neighbouring one, where there are other choices

16:23:37 Chillum: I could ssh tunnel

16:23:43 ben_vulpes: Chillum: programmatic BTC remittance?

16:23:45 funkenstein_: i thought ssl was for websites

16:24:00 Chillum: but ssh uses... ssl

16:24:02 asciilifeform: Chillum: even this - improvement. because you control the keys.

16:24:03 chetty: ssl is for fools

16:24:04 mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ ssl is for any application where security theatre is +ev and security itself doesn't matter.

16:24:15 funkenstein_: sslol

16:24:17 mircea_popescu: blogs, guestbooks, whatevs.

16:24:21 Chillum: you can control the keys in ssl. You don't have to use existing authority chains you can make your own

16:24:35 Chillum: in fact trusting verisign or something to authenticate keys is the root of most problems

16:24:44 mircea_popescu: Chillum and also make your own implementation, to not depend on "implementation errors" ?

16:24:44 funkenstein_: for example if i am trying to publish a transaction to the world with my wallet, why would i encrypt it before sending?

16:24:50 asciilifeform: Chillum: try to deploy a self-signed thing commercially and be buried in whines from idiots whose browsers flash red.

16:24:50 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/17/proof-that-mycelium-knows-how-to-make-a-better-rng-for-its-entropy-dongle-and-isnt/#comment-13873 << lol mr. mycelium comes back for 'correction'

16:24:52 assbot: Proof That Mycelium Knows How To Make A Better RNG For Its Entropy Dongle. And Isn’t. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0hill )

16:24:52 mircea_popescu: in which case... why are you even using it ?

16:25:05 Chillum: all tools have potential for implementation errors

16:25:22 mircea_popescu: Chillum the problem is we know ssl to be intentionally misimplemented. as you say, on layers.

16:25:28 Chillum: funkenstein_: you don't. Buy when you contact the API and provide your API keys you want that encyrpted

16:25:45 funkenstein_: what wallet has api keys?

16:25:47 Chillum: the cert system is for sure

16:25:47 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski is that actually the guy ? who even made mycellium ?

16:25:59 Chillum: funkenstein_: bitcoin JPSON-RPC

16:26:03 Chillum: JSON

16:26:13 funkenstein_: ah ok now we are getting somewhere

16:26:14 mircea_popescu: oh rassah, i remember this.

16:26:23 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ayup.

16:26:23 Chillum: also when using the API we will be passing private keys

16:26:29 Chillum: very sensitive information

16:26:39 funkenstein_: sounds like a bad idea

16:26:42 funkenstein_: why would you do that?

16:26:54 Chillum: how would you import a key into a wallet if not with the API?

16:27:02 funkenstein_: importprivkey

16:27:03 Chillum: it is an automated system so no mouse clicks

16:27:08 Chillum: that is an API command

16:27:15 funkenstein_: it is not remote

16:27:32 Chillum: sockets vs tcp, should be secure both ways

16:27:46 mircea_popescu: Chillum generally, the idea being that running a wallet client and a bitcoin node on the same system (let alone in the same program) is beyond idiotic.

16:27:48 funkenstein_: ok if you run a bitcoind on a remote machine.. ssh into it

16:27:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11766 @ 0.00027449 = 3.2296 BTC [+]

16:27:53 funkenstein_: then you are using ssl

16:27:57 mircea_popescu: that idiocy was easily excusable in 2009. meanwhile, we just don't do that.

16:28:50 mircea_popescu: and whatever customers may "have come to expect", bitcoin is too valuable to cater to that in breach of security and safety. so, options that are by their nature insecure shouldn't be provided at all.

16:28:57 mircea_popescu: whoever wants them can put them in, like you say above.

16:29:36 ben_vulpes: Chillum: what precisely are you building?

16:30:09 danielpbarron: fodder for a future qntra article

16:30:34 Chillum: just a bitcoind node with a wallet and a firewall and an API

16:30:44 mircea_popescu: all on one computer ?

16:30:47 Chillum: if the built in API is really that insecure I suppose I can write an access layer

16:31:00 ben_vulpes: dude

16:31:02 mircea_popescu: single machine paradigm is flawed for this application.

16:31:04 Chillum: what exactly does more than one computer get me?

16:31:17 ben_vulpes: the thing calling into your wallet is also an attack point

16:31:22 mircea_popescu: separation of red and black.

16:31:34 mod6: plz go read 1+ year of logs + trilima

16:31:42 mod6: *fraudsters

16:31:44 mircea_popescu: in other news,

16:31:46 mircea_popescu: Hi,

16:31:46 mircea_popescu: Hope you are doing well. I am a client services manager here at AdMedia. I was wondering if there might be a possible partnership opportunity between our two companies. We have previously and recently ran campaigns for fraudsters.com via third party networks. We wanted to discuss the opportunity of working directly

16:31:54 *: mircea_popescu is pretty fucking impressed with admedia atm.

16:32:20 Chillum: So if I understand correctly SSL was removed because if I need SSL I am doing it wrong?

16:32:24 mircea_popescu: exactly.

16:32:33 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: because they can spell and write their own e-mails ?

16:32:44 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski and read their own dbs and advanced shit like that!

16:32:49 Chillum: May I suggest that you describe your best practices so that people running this SSL free code will know how to not do it wrong?

16:32:58 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: holy cramoly!

16:33:03 Chillum: I would love to read an essay describing the sort of infractructure you find safe

16:33:06 mircea_popescu: Chillum http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076921 ?

16:33:06 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 16:31:34; mod6: plz go read 1+ year of logs + trilima

16:33:17 mircea_popescu: not that i've (and others) not said the same thingee.

16:33:23 Chillum: I am interested in other ideas, it is just a bit hard to understand what your best practices are

16:33:29 Chillum: I will read _some_ of the logs later

16:33:35 mircea_popescu: cool.

16:33:39 asciilifeform: Chillum: http://fraudsters.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide << good starting point

16:33:40 assbot: How to airgap. A practical guide. pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/19ajNp3 )

16:33:55 mircea_popescu: not like there's any rush. and generally, the stuff you're used to worrying about holds no sway here. so.. .jus relax an' enjoy.

16:34:03 ben_vulpes: also

16:34:09 ben_vulpes: 0.5.3.1 is not for use in 'anger'.

16:34:28 Chillum: avoiding the need for encryption on the API through sound security practices is one thing. Recommending something without encryption without describing those practices is a recipe for disaster.

16:34:35 ben_vulpes: if you *want* to run it, and *can* read the provided documentation, do so.

16:34:43 ben_vulpes: if you haven't, stop in here and expose your ignorance for all.

16:34:58 mircea_popescu: Chillum yeah. like, you know, how the bitcoin wallets were plaintext for... i dunno, 3years or so.

16:35:00 asciilifeform: Chillum: at present there is no chance of a 'civilian' stumbling upon 0.5.3.1 and putting it to use

16:35:18 ben_vulpes: Chillum: some day i'd like this thing to not even have a json/rpc api.

16:35:20 Chillum: It was recommended to me by two people here before I read the patches

16:35:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this may or may not be true, upon contemplation.

16:35:32 mircea_popescu: mod6 ben_vulpes you think some warnings should be brewed maybe ?

16:35:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be hilarious if someone found, built, then cried

16:35:37 Chillum: air-gap is not an option for me, it needs to be automated

16:35:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i don't expect to see this

16:35:52 ben_vulpes: me neither.

16:35:53 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he said it just happened ?

16:36:10 asciilifeform: nah he read the patches and upchucked

16:36:15 mircea_popescu: he did.

16:36:17 mircea_popescu: someone else ?

16:36:18 Chillum: though it will use a cold-wallet reserve system to minimize exposure

16:36:32 ben_vulpes: perhaps throw an error on boot if someone tries to use the tls flags.

16:36:41 mircea_popescu: Chillum : better plan, sign your txn off the hot box, import them there through private connection.

16:36:55 Chillum: again, needs to be automated

16:37:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00027545 = 5.4264 BTC [+]

16:37:09 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes dunno how best implemented, but he raises a good point we're prone to neglect : as exposure increases, which it necessarily will,

16:37:10 Chillum: oh

16:37:11 Chillum: i see

16:37:25 Chillum: was going to use firewall enforced vpn

16:37:25 mircea_popescu: the number of random people trying random things will exponential

16:37:35 mircea_popescu: that may actually work.

16:37:56 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: feel free to lift the ascii jolly roger from http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000038.html for the warning banner...

16:37:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19akQFF )

16:37:59 asciilifeform: if you like

16:38:02 ben_vulpes: chill

16:38:03 Chillum: you guys should make a white paper

16:38:03 mircea_popescu: firewalls are finnicy to setup, but once correctly setup on a linux box they're reliable.

16:38:35 ben_vulpes: Chillum: and if the web host talking to the API gets compromised?

16:38:49 asciilifeform: Chillum: we do human skin parchments instead of white papers here.

16:38:56 ben_vulpes: <Chillum> you guys should make a white paper << myeah. someday, i'm sure.

16:39:12 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it'd be one way nah ? from his wallet to the node. not the other way.

16:39:13 nubbins`: mircea_popescu as seen in my latest submit: "Follow these instructions at your own peril, and upon risk of divestment, dismemberment, or death."

16:39:38 mircea_popescu: nubbins` too cutsy to be effectual imo, but hey.

16:40:01 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: well something has to poke the wallet in an automated fashion

16:40:11 mircea_popescu: why ?

16:40:13 nubbins`: all of those things are possible and if you press alf he'll admit that he expects all three

16:40:23 ben_vulpes: because he's building a robo-remitter?!

16:40:38 Chillum: ben_vulpes: That is always a risk with a hot wallet, but if the system needs to be automated then what is the alternative?

16:41:01 Chillum: If the solution being offered is an air-gap then that only works in certain scenarios

16:41:02 mircea_popescu: Chillum not to pry into your soul here, but mind describing the cause of the need for automation ?

16:41:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00027548 = 14.8208 BTC [+] {2}

16:41:52 mircea_popescu: an airgap is merely a golden standard BECAUSE it disallows automation. there's ipso definitio no automated airgap.

16:42:14 Chillum: Security is easy if you have to manually approve each and every transaction

16:42:32 ben_vulpes: Chillum:

16:42:33 mircea_popescu: not so easy and quite expensive, which is why alternatives are always tempting. but go on ?

16:42:37 ben_vulpes: what are you building.

16:42:40 Chillum: most companies want tools that work without their intervention

16:42:47 asciilifeform: (note to n00bs - this is a good place to point out that the 'air' in an airgap is more than physical concept: i.e. a machine controlled via radio in real time is not 'airgapped')

16:42:52 mircea_popescu: most people want trees that shit prune juice too.

16:43:18 ben_vulpes: pre-fermented at that

16:43:37 Chillum: consider the use case of a service that rents say minecraft servers by the hour. The user need to be able to establish a balance and later withdraw their balance when they are done in a reasonable amount of time

16:43:44 *: asciilifeform believes that 'meatgap' would be a more descriptive term for the concept

16:43:59 nubbins`: heh

16:44:02 Chillum: the owner relies on it being low maintenance in order for it to be profitable

16:44:10 ben_vulpes: Chillum: 2 points:

16:44:10 Chillum: which is very common in internet based companies

16:44:11 mircea_popescu: Chillum completely unrelated : do you have any fucking idea how desired a bitcoin host is here ?

16:44:13 ben_vulpes: 1) what are you building

16:44:25 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he basically wants fraudsters credits for whatever.

16:44:26 ben_vulpes: 2) if it's that low margin, why bother in the first place?

16:44:28 Chillum: mircea_popescu: I bet.

16:44:49 mircea_popescu: Chillum i've been trying to shoehorn random people into doing it since... omgerd 2013.

16:44:57 Chillum: you do realize that some of the most successful internet companies are low margin right?

16:45:01 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pinkposixpxe hai!

16:45:01 gribble: The operation succeeded.

16:45:28 Chillum: well the issue with bitcoin hosting is lack of accountability. The guy who is renting the servers to the bitcoin anon will get the abuse complaints when they spam

16:45:39 mircea_popescu: nah, all wot based.

16:45:47 mircea_popescu: you only work with !rated ppls.

16:45:49 Chillum: which is why software as a service is a better option

16:45:57 mircea_popescu: neah.

16:46:23 Chillum: well mircea I can write a wrapper for AWS that accepts bitcoins from people on a whitelist

16:46:30 Chillum: it will be a lot of work to do it securely though

16:46:41 mircea_popescu: most everyone here can spin an aws in ten minutes.

16:46:42 Chillum: but if there is demand and a willingness to pay a reasonable markup

16:46:45 mircea_popescu: the idea is to get bare metal.

16:46:51 asciilifeform: Chillum: can't speak for others but i in particular am interested specifically in migrating -from- aws

16:47:13 asciilifeform: aws is the 'mcdonalds' of hosting.

16:47:24 Chillum: I could offer raspberry pis, but you would need to VPN your own internet connection to them, I don't want bitcoin/irc dudes using my home internet lulz

16:47:25 ben_vulpes: http://waifu.xyz/slurp/g/2661568_black_science.webm

16:47:26 assbot: waifu.xyz - g ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0pCBq )

16:47:31 Chillum: I got 5 Pi 2s and 10 more on the way

16:47:35 mircea_popescu: lmao.

16:47:42 mircea_popescu: did i post the crates of pogos anywhere or not yet ?

16:47:56 asciilifeform: Chillum: pretty much everyone reading this has fiber to the grounds and a crate of small computers, just as happenstance

16:47:59 ben_vulpes: no pics, no mircea_popescu

16:48:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your crate or mine

16:48:12 asciilifeform: mine - was here

16:48:14 mircea_popescu: lmao

16:48:18 mircea_popescu: ok, he posted his, good enuff.

16:48:33 Chillum: having a crate of computers is great. Having them all work on the same problem at the same time is awesome

16:48:36 asciilifeform: but if mircea_popescu has a railroad car it'll be great for morale & lulz

16:48:45 mircea_popescu: Chillum they're for fixing the bitcoin nodes hole.

16:48:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun really has that many, no.

16:49:09 Chillum: well you would want network diversity for that

16:49:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you recall, nubbins` did discovere where to get if you felt like it.

16:49:18 mircea_popescu: exactly.

16:49:20 Chillum: release a screensaver that does it lol, worked for SETI

16:49:34 mircea_popescu: Chillum this is not half a bad idea, actually.

16:49:47 asciilifeform: a 30G++++ screen saver ?

16:49:58 asciilifeform: and reintroduction of winblows? ugh.

16:50:08 Chillum: but it has to look cool, do something like: http://www.bitlisten.com/

16:50:09 assbot: BitListen - Bitcoin Transaction Visualizer ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0qztE )

16:50:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform run it through cygwin :D

16:50:22 mircea_popescu: Chillum i was thinking, get the naked ladies to do specials.

16:50:32 asciilifeform: l0l lusers will install cygwin runtime? aha, sure.

16:50:42 nubbins`: heeeeeh

16:51:04 mircea_popescu: windows people. will install anything.

16:51:04 Chillum: most resource expensive screensaver EVER

16:51:10 *: asciilifeform once had a full-blown build of xorg and other userland under cygwin, when worked in usg and forced to use winblows box

16:51:12 mircea_popescu: Chillum so what, let intel do 10nm!

16:51:36 Chillum: Instead of renting servers send cheap computers to volunteers for free. Will be cheaper in the long run

16:51:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you recall, his argument 10 minutes ago stated correctly that "people will install anything at any time for any reason

16:51:50 Chillum: just make sure you remove the bootloader so they can't reflash it

16:51:53 mircea_popescu: but usually for no reason at all."

16:51:58 Chillum: otherwise people will volunteer for free hardware

16:52:16 mircea_popescu: Chillum you gotta understand how the wot works.

16:52:31 Chillum: it works great, but only to a certain scale

16:52:42 mircea_popescu: and you know this because...

16:52:54 Chillum: well can the WoT give you 20,000 volunteers if you needed them?

16:52:59 mircea_popescu: democracy works great but only on a certain scale.

16:53:03 Chillum: agreed

16:53:09 mircea_popescu: the wot works perfectly well on any scale larger than where a democracy breaks down

16:53:25 mircea_popescu: if you need 20k volunteers you're doing it wrong.

16:53:31 mircea_popescu: this is sparta, not rome.

16:53:42 Chillum: okay fair enough. I dont' know what scale you are working on

16:53:43 Chillum: I think big

16:53:50 mircea_popescu: no, you don't. you just imagine you do.

16:53:57 Chillum: ah I will reflect on that

16:54:09 ben_vulpes: !b 3

16:54:11 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2GD3RS4.txt )

16:54:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48382 @ 0.00027576 = 13.3418 BTC [+]

16:54:30 Chillum: lol

16:54:53 nubbins`: Chillum, you're thicker-skinned than most

16:55:10 mircea_popescu: than most whats ?

16:55:18 nubbins`: others 8)

16:55:34 Chillum: I have been an admin on wikipedia for 8 years, the thin skinned ones die out

16:55:44 mircea_popescu: nubbins` formulate plan : only invite potheads to b-a. nubbins` looks upon results : good good goood!

16:55:45 Chillum: we deal with flat earthers on a daily basis

16:55:48 nubbins`: lel. i can imagine.

16:55:54 mircea_popescu: srsly ?!

16:56:00 mircea_popescu: that thing still goes ?

16:56:04 Chillum: oh ya

16:56:10 mircea_popescu: dude how the fuck.

16:56:18 Chillum: creationists, flat earthers, anti-vacers, young earthers

16:56:21 mircea_popescu: i mean, sa kruger going "impossible" i can see. it was early.

16:56:24 Chillum: crazy people all day long

16:56:34 mircea_popescu: but by now ? how the fuck would you think it's flat. "because it looks flat from space" ?

16:56:49 nubbins`: the satellite launches are hoaxes

16:56:57 mircea_popescu: even fucking romania launched one!

16:57:00 Chillum: it involved sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"

16:57:03 nubbins`: those dots you see moving, unblinking, across the sky 20x a night are the lizards

16:57:10 Chillum: oh ya the lizards

16:57:21 Chillum: we hear from the people trying to reveal the truth about the lizards a lot

16:57:25 mircea_popescu: Chillum i understand how the stupidity defends itself - like any other. what encuriouses me is... how does it get born.

16:57:28 Chillum: and of course the jews did 911

16:57:35 mircea_popescu: !s lizard hitler

16:57:36 assbot: 47 results for 'lizard hitler' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lizard+hitler

16:57:42 mircea_popescu: of course the jews did 911

16:57:46 nubbins`: hahahaha

16:57:48 Chillum: It was not born, ignorance predates knowledge

16:58:00 mircea_popescu: !ban Chillum jews did 911 denier

16:58:18 Chillum: don't quote me out of context lol

16:58:23 mircea_popescu: (the funniest thing about this is that not having read the logs, he can't help but wonder about it lol)

16:58:30 nubbins`: mircea_popescu +1

16:58:39 nubbins`: "47 results for lizard hitler" my sides

16:59:50 ben_vulpes: #ba is tops on my google for lizard hitler

16:59:54 mircea_popescu: nubbins` i mostly blame alf

17:00:00 ben_vulpes: who sez they don't use algos anymore, eh?

17:00:20 ben_vulpes: someday we'll be tops for any string starting with turd as well

17:00:25 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes they still use algorithmics for the outskirts. which is why the "long tail" revolution happened in seo.

17:00:31 mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's a handcrafted list.

17:00:32 ben_vulpes: and we can blame alfie for that too

17:00:39 mircea_popescu: like the nyt review of books, but for websites.

17:00:59 ben_vulpes: yeah, let's bring back the directories!

17:01:00 ben_vulpes: oh man.

17:01:03 Chillum: a hand crafted index of the internet?

17:01:04 nubbins`: mircea_popescu it's not his fault that conspiracy theory concepts are good metaphors for the actual missed points

17:01:05 mircea_popescu: so stupid right ?

17:01:05 ben_vulpes: now i want a directory!

17:01:22 mircea_popescu: nubbins` blame does not attach to fault, blame attaches to agency.

17:01:32 nubbins`: OH HO

17:01:36 nubbins`: chew on that

17:01:39 mircea_popescu: yw.

17:02:58 mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ ftr, since im here my brain has decided to multivocalize all j's as h's too, for good measure. and as you logged in it just proposed "hosed" as a possible interpretation of your user.

17:03:49 mircea_popescu: so i guess now you're hosed.

17:04:30 funkenstein_: actually that is how that username was born :)

17:04:41 mircea_popescu: fuck me ?! srsly ?

17:04:57 funkenstein_: somebody was talking about a "hosed bus" when i needed to pick one

17:05:25 funkenstein_: sounds like you are becoming a real porteno

17:05:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00027576 = 2.6473 BTC [+]

17:05:35 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's nothing, he's permeating harem speech. yest i was waffling over whether to go to icecream place, girl goes "well not like we gotta go and get the imensatron necessarily". ie, we could get a smaller tub. but no - imensaTRON!!1

17:05:48 ben_vulpes: by the way what is up with billinghurst

17:05:54 mircea_popescu: what about it ?

17:06:09 ben_vulpes: it's the only word where the l's are pronounced?

17:06:12 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, anyone care to guess the name of the street my office's on ? its a food item.

17:06:25 mircea_popescu: ahahaha bishinghurst

17:06:37 ben_vulpes: > get in cab

17:06:38 funkenstein_: calle de lomo

17:06:44 ben_vulpes: > "bishinghurst"

17:06:48 mircea_popescu: dude. i been despising their local accent and doing the proper y = ll thing, but im totally going to say it as bishinghurst

17:06:49 ben_vulpes: > two minutes of confusion

17:07:13 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: glhf

17:07:30 ben_vulpes: i'd like to see you do this to some poor cabbie

17:07:33 mircea_popescu: good long hard fucking ?

17:08:00 ben_vulpes: lol no are you trying to intuit from context again?!

17:08:09 mircea_popescu: cuntext but yes.

17:08:30 ben_vulpes: "good luck have fun"

17:08:49 mircea_popescu: mine's better and will overtake yours

17:08:52 mircea_popescu: by having more childrens.

17:09:21 ben_vulpes: somehow i doubt you're going to have more children than me

17:09:33 mircea_popescu: strawman. the EXPRESSION is. not me.

17:09:47 ben_vulpes: YOUR LINE DIES WITH YOU

17:10:01 mircea_popescu: dude your line's not even been to any masculinity conferences.

17:10:32 mircea_popescu: (and no, my office is on pringles st.)

17:10:45 ben_vulpes: i was actually musing on the absence of any leads-only tango practicas in town

17:11:06 danielpbarron: scam! you said it was a food.. :p

17:11:16 mircea_popescu: lol

17:11:22 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what's that ?

17:11:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49813 @ 0.00027608 = 13.7524 BTC [+] {2}

17:11:34 ben_vulpes: nominally, at one point in history, you weren't allowed to lead at a milonga until you'd been more or less given permission from the other leads in town.

17:11:57 mircea_popescu: > If you saw it tonight at marias taco xpress

17:11:58 mircea_popescu: >Texas Bitcoin Conference

17:12:02 mircea_popescu: wtf srsly ?

17:12:13 ben_vulpes: first, you had to learn to lead by following at the leads practicas, then they'd teach you to lead, then eventually you'd get to go to the milongas.

17:12:31 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes their wot died under consumerismo-socialism & peron.

17:12:39 ben_vulpes: yes i know

17:12:47 mircea_popescu: "but i like to kvetch"

17:13:04 ben_vulpes: musing!

17:13:15 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076548 << tbh i suspect it's a sexual dysfunction.

17:13:15 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 11:54:19; nubbins`: "that's such an /american/ thing, hey? 'mentoring'? movin' to a big city and getting yourself a mentor or five?"

17:13:50 ben_vulpes: anyways, point is that it's difficult to learn to lead from followers.

17:13:59 mircea_popescu: you don't say!

17:14:07 ben_vulpes: tautological almost :P

17:14:45 ben_vulpes: and no leaders are interested in growing *more* leaders.

17:14:50 ben_vulpes: well, very few.

17:14:57 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076568 << am i the only one who finds the fact that nubbins` had to put FOUR excuses to doing a blog in the blog fucking domain hysterical ?

17:14:57 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 13:08:43; nubbins`: but just in case: http://madcaptomfoolery.ca

17:15:08 mircea_popescu: yo nubsy it's ok baby. a blog is not unlike a penis.

17:15:16 mircea_popescu: no need to apologize.

17:16:00 mircea_popescu: also it doesn't load.

17:17:37 mircea_popescu: "Sat across from a serious man. He?s sunken himself into the soft underbelly of a woman. A fox, true 1960 pussy. Her silver hair knotted in a fat bun, loose upon her neck. "

17:17:43 mircea_popescu: notbad.jpg

17:18:12 danielpbarron: https://archive.today/k6oGP

17:18:13 assbot: madcap tomfoolery | we write, you read. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0AWO2 )

17:19:48 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076586 << also a criminal entreprise, but something tells me tough on his bosses enemies bharara isn't about to bust out the rico and send>40 faux usg academics up the river for 20+ eyars a head.

17:19:48 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 13:41:23; nubbins`: like a web ring, but funner and in meatspace

17:20:23 mircea_popescu: now on the other hand if they happened to you know, do that unspeakable crime aaron schwartz kid's guilty of...

17:20:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00027656 = 5.0749 BTC [+]

17:20:44 trinque: +Chillum | I can understand it. It is removing a security layer, presumably for speed << the whole RPC thing will likely come out, not for speed but for blowtorching complexity

17:21:00 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron danke. it loaded eventually.

17:21:19 Chillum: trinque: yes I came to understand that

17:21:27 trinque: ah just reading logs :)

17:21:35 Chillum: makes a lot of sense in a cold wallet system

17:21:41 Chillum: air-gapped that is

17:21:46 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bingoboingo http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076591 << mebbe qntra worthy, if linked with discussion of "buenos aires embassy" ? dunno.

17:21:46 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:08:34; nubbins`: http://cointelegraph.com/news/113811/bitcoin-embassy-amsterdam-founder-booted-from-organization-starts-second-embassy

17:21:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:22:17 nubbins`: angle of who the fuck declares themselves an ambassador of btc anyway

17:22:35 mircea_popescu: "clearly nobody actually associated".

17:22:58 mircea_popescu: long history of this schmuckerdom, who was that polyanna something chick that was doing the "Bitcoin chamber of commerce" ?

17:23:04 mircea_popescu: for some reason i have trouble with her name.

17:23:04 nubbins`: lel

17:23:18 mircea_popescu: anyway.

17:24:19 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076596 << i dun think we want one, but if you wish to be the b-a ambassador into the midwest... that and india possibly the only places that need an embassy from la serenissima. and candi's got the india.

17:24:19 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:10:38; PeterL: When does #b-a start our own emabassies?

17:25:21 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076608 << now say it in carson voice.

17:25:21 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:23:56; Chillum: I did not know that

17:26:23 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you ever tried soldering a sata on see what happens ?

17:26:47 nubbins`: sadly no connector handy, but i'm definitely putting a pin in it for later.

17:26:49 mircea_popescu: (odds are the pads are just there because mass produced item)

17:26:53 nubbins`: ^

17:27:03 nubbins`: altho it looks like they're connected to traces.

17:27:06 mircea_popescu: but there's a vague possibility whole shebang's there and disabled in software

17:27:43 nubbins`: there's no mounting holes on this pcb for the top usb port, either, so it's entirely possible the mobile and series4 have different pcbs

17:28:41 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076637 << happens to be the eventual goal of the foundation.

17:28:41 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:43:57; Chillum: Glad it is still being worked on. But frankly I would like to see a complete re-write of the client

17:28:58 nubbins`: yeah, they're different boards

17:29:09 mircea_popescu: consensus is the sort of thing in bitcoind is probably a lead cause of abortion, lead poisoning, fetal alcohol syndrome and the woes of the rings of saturn

17:29:17 nubbins`: so... shrug. maybe it's like the rtc -- there for the user to add

17:29:37 trinque: en_vulpes | has use cases? << ehehehe one would hope eventually!

17:29:52 mircea_popescu: dude check it out, someone who remembers how bad bittorrent was originally.

17:30:16 mircea_popescu: ftr, for the new souls : torrents were originally dismissed on the strength of how bad the shit / code was originally, as "this'll never work"

17:31:01 mircea_popescu: felipelalli prolly ask fluffypony i think he's the only one here keeping an eye on monero.

17:31:40 Chillum: lol I remember how bad trading files with IRC and FTP was, then I how bad bittorrent was

17:31:48 nubbins`: oh, and guess who just un-bricked their pogo? http://imgur.com/dR3tx16 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dmveVt3N

17:31:50 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0FX9n )

17:31:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0FXpM )

17:31:52 Chillum: usenet for the win!

17:31:52 fluffypony: felipelalli: I can arrange an OTC buy if you need, else Poloniex / Bittrex

17:31:58 fluffypony: well done nubbins`

17:32:07 mircea_popescu: Chillum didja also know naggum ?

17:32:12 Chillum: I remember when people first started making mp3s

17:32:19 Chillum: did not know naggum

17:32:29 nubbins`: fluffypony ty :D

17:32:31 fluffypony: Chillum: I remember ripping CDs to MP3s at real time speed

17:32:31 Chillum: I remember when my apple IIgs was pretty neato

17:32:33 mircea_popescu: nubbins` ain't fixing something great ? almost better than having made it in the first place!

17:32:43 Chillum: I rocked the vic20

17:32:43 fluffypony: through a fake microphone driver

17:32:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71650 @ 0.00027721 = 19.8621 BTC [+] {3}

17:32:56 nubbins`: wouldja believe this is the first piece of kit i've modded that /isn't/ a synthesizer?

17:33:09 Chillum: it has a cassette tape drive

17:33:10 mircea_popescu: i would, yes.

17:33:17 Chillum: you had to press play or record to load or save a file

17:33:21 nubbins`: :S

17:33:25 mircea_popescu: Chillum : be-beep beee-dfkljgkjdfhgkjhkgher

17:33:34 fluffypony: aaah good old Commodore 64 days

17:33:37 Chillum: yes

17:33:42 Chillum: you know the sound

17:33:45 fluffypony: time to save my game...*presses record on the tape player*

17:33:47 mircea_popescu: everyone here is very old.

17:33:50 mircea_popescu: for we are all dragons.

17:33:51 Chillum: similar to but different than a 300 baud modem

17:34:00 mircea_popescu: yeah same principle.

17:34:16 funkenstein_: Chillum, what kind of chip you have in there, a Dorrito?

17:34:16 asciilifeform: but no - imensaTRON!!1 << l0l

17:34:19 Chillum: I used to pick up pager signals with my scanner and decode them through my sound card.

17:34:20 Chillum: lol

17:34:32 Chillum: was just listening to that funkenstein

17:34:39 *: asciilifeform did this to the folks he works with in meatspace, also to some extent

17:34:51 mircea_popescu: you're like a weed.

17:34:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26036 @ 0.00027868 = 7.2557 BTC [+]

17:34:57 mircea_popescu: a weed in lizard hitler's bunker.

17:35:08 *: asciilifeform speaking to pet is most of the way unintelligible to bystanders, for instance

17:35:16 mircea_popescu: this is how it should be.

17:35:33 mircea_popescu: (twist : alf speaks iidish at home)

17:36:00 Chillum: I smoke weed for breakfast!

17:36:08 asciilifeform: send>40 faux usg academics up the river for 20+ eyars << weren't they chinese? or is this a different set of hucksters this time

17:36:16 Chillum: god bless the grass that grows between the cracks

17:36:22 mircea_popescu: seems a new set, haven't dug.

17:36:39 mircea_popescu: I KNEW nubbins` is trying to stuff the weed ballot.

17:36:52 asciilifeform: tried soldering a sata on see what happens ? << it is quite likely missing some of the passives too

17:37:07 mircea_popescu: 99%, but let him have fun. the 1% is there.

17:38:08 asciilifeform: nubbins`: http://imgur.com/dR3tx16 << technically it wasn't really -bricked- unless you had to do the boot-via-xmodem thing

17:38:08 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoIv2d )

17:38:17 asciilifeform: (i.e. internal flash totally b0rked including uboot)

17:38:25 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076664 << Chillum currently we're using the pogos for ~19 dollar nodes.

17:38:25 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:50:26; Chillum: I just need to make a $100 node

17:38:29 mircea_popescu: you should look into that.

17:38:29 nubbins`: yeah, i'm being loose w/ words

17:38:43 nubbins`: i actually just mistakenly wiped the bootcmd env variable

17:39:04 danielpbarron: 19 USD + storage device

17:39:07 mircea_popescu: "o what's this ? fuck it, don't need it. uh... wait."

17:39:12 asciilifeform: <nubbins`> wouldja believe this is the first piece of kit i've modded that /isn't/ a synthesizer? << notice the unpopulated row of pins at bottom end of pcb? those are gpio's and you can attach random strange to them

17:39:21 Chillum: interesting

17:39:25 nubbins`: did indeed!

17:39:42 mircea_popescu: buy a pogo try it out, look into the past week's log it's full of people working on it, danielpbarron posted some excellent guides.

17:39:44 nubbins`: i'll be back in 6 months with this wired into a home automation system

17:39:45 asciilifeform: ...good old Commodore 64 >>> http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/parallelsid/parasid.html

17:39:46 assbot: Parallel Port SID6581 Interface ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoIGui )

17:39:53 nubbins`: lighting levels tied to network hashrate

17:40:00 danielpbarron: Chillum, http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/spec.html

17:40:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoIIm8 )

17:40:12 nubbins`: also http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/howto.txt

17:40:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GSndrC )

17:40:24 nubbins`: and if you're really interested, http://danielpbarron.com/pogo/notes.html

17:40:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoILOH )

17:40:43 danielpbarron: the notes page is a really raw collection of links and commands

17:40:46 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron srsly why not a blog format ?

17:40:51 mircea_popescu: how are people to find one from the other ?

17:40:56 Chillum: danielpbarron: so where do I get one?

17:40:59 danielpbarron: the root directory

17:41:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27317 @ 0.00027868 = 7.6127 BTC [+]

17:41:11 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron and as you keep writing ?

17:41:11 danielpbarron: Chillum, i've been getting them from amazon

17:41:22 danielpbarron: i keep adding to those files

17:41:28 mircea_popescu: aite.

17:41:35 danielpbarron: bad?

17:41:37 *: Chillum goes to look on ebay

17:41:48 trinque: ben_vulpes | now i want a directory! << here comes the #b-a gopher site

17:41:51 asciilifeform: make a $100 node << 100 buys a pogo and a reasonable solid state sata

17:42:07 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron if you're specifically making an experiment about it (which means, you've modeled it, doing things deliberately to observe effects etc) i can see it.

17:42:13 mircea_popescu: otherwise... the consensus seems to be blog.

17:42:16 trinque: god damn those were good logs

17:42:39 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno anyone that doesn't have a "dead" old sata laying around.

17:42:54 mircea_popescu: but sure, if you're buying a new disk, takes you to 100ish

17:43:02 danielpbarron: what does everyone else do for blogging?

17:43:24 trinque: danielpbarron: there's neutering wordpress or using some static site generator

17:43:24 mircea_popescu: wp, which sucks, or else ben_vulpes' homeroll thing, which sucks.

17:43:29 mircea_popescu: they suck for different reasons tho.

17:43:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: old buggered mechanical satas aren't quite as nice, but certainly usable. the thing definitely sources sufficient amps for them

17:43:42 mircea_popescu: mhm.

17:43:50 asciilifeform: (vendor's 24W brick)

17:44:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00028053 = 1.9497 BTC [+]

17:44:45 danielpbarron: my solid state sata is at 24 gigs, the 5400 rpm one is at 6.5 gigs

17:45:04 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: no other differences ?

17:45:14 danielpbarron: it seems to freeze up more often

17:45:21 asciilifeform: i meant, in the machines

17:45:26 danielpbarron: oh, no

17:45:28 asciilifeform: aha

17:45:31 trinque: what's the latest compile 0.5.3.1 for pogo doc, if any?

17:45:39 trinque: meanwhile I'll get cross compiling tooling going

17:45:41 mircea_popescu: actual chain + index ~39.5 gb atm

17:45:42 asciilifeform: trinque: danielpbarron's

17:46:02 asciilifeform: trinque: by all means build cross-compiler for your system, but when i put the buildroot thing up it will carry its own

17:46:04 mircea_popescu: blkindex0016 almost full, which brings the following issue :

17:46:17 mircea_popescu: what happens once we're over 10k x 2gb = 20tb of blockchain ?

17:46:22 danielpbarron: i don't have a doc for 0.5.3.1 unless it counts to have one for the pre-release patching of 0.5.3

17:46:22 asciilifeform: (buildroot demands nothing but your platform's native gcc and takes it from there until the bitter end, the actual armv5 images)

17:46:23 mircea_popescu: y2k for btc!

17:46:24 trinque: asciilifeform: I've got enough arm turdboards lying around to justify it

17:46:36 Chillum: amazon canada sucks

17:46:37 asciilifeform: trinque: note that each such board is likely wanting its own gcc

17:46:40 danielpbarron: i need to reformat my laptop.. AGAIN

17:46:54 asciilifeform: arm is notoriously fragmented into incompatible turddoms

17:47:03 trinque: asciilifeform: ah ok, other than this I have pis

17:47:09 mircea_popescu: Chillum if you absolutely can't find one i'll ok you to get one from our warehouse at dpb

17:47:12 trinque: I'll just get both going, probably just some eselect thing in gentoo right?

17:47:32 asciilifeform: pi1 was armv6, pi2 - armv7

17:47:39 Chillum: I am going to read up on them first. Thanks

17:47:39 danielpbarron: it's unlikely i can ship it cheaper than amazon

17:47:47 danielpbarron: if he's just getting 1

17:47:48 trinque: got both

17:48:13 Chillum: I will either want 0 or 10+, I rarely get 1 of any small computer

17:48:28 Chillum: they work better in little tribes

17:48:43 danielpbarron: i think 18 fit nicely in a crate

17:50:30 Chillum: I have a lot of Pi 2s to setup right now. I will look into the pogos though

17:50:32 trinque: danielpbarron: mine arrived from amazon in 4 days with standard shipping, ymmv

17:53:14 nubbins`: Chillum goes to look on ebay <<< cheaper on amazon, almost certainly

17:53:41 nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> make a $100 node << 100 buys a pogo and a reasonable solid state sata <<< 64gb on the way, should get me through to the summer at least

17:54:00 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yeah, which is why i said.

17:54:48 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 20 * 6 * 24

17:54:48 gribble: 2880

17:54:56 mircea_popescu: 20 days of it at any rate.

17:55:16 mircea_popescu: o wait i forgot, 20mb won't be used, it just needs to be there to not be used. right right.

17:55:22 Chillum: nubbins`: amazon canada sucks. $40, $30 on ebay

17:55:22 asciilifeform: https://octopart.com/search?q=marvell%20%2088F6192 << interestingly, it's either extinct or octo (a paul graham co.!) lies, lies.

17:55:24 assbot: marvell 88F6192 - Octopart ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0Oqtd )

17:55:33 nubbins`: Chillum agreed. amazon usa, however...

17:55:34 danielpbarron: !up Bagels7

17:55:45 Chillum: I used to work for an Amazon company

17:56:06 Chillum: using massive arrays of cloud computers to reprice books as fast as possible compared to the market

17:56:13 *: asciilifeform was idly toying with determining what pogotron might actually cost to make in quantity

17:56:27 nubbins`: you can get used pogo (purple logo, w/ sata) for $15usd on amazon, used

17:56:34 Chillum: we would get two customer who wanted their price to be 1 cent below everyone else and we tried to explain that since they are not the only person doing it that they would drop to a penny

17:56:35 nubbins`: asciilifeform ++

17:56:40 Chillum: they insisted

17:56:47 asciilifeform: 'marvell' per se doesn't turn up much either.

17:56:48 Chillum: then complained when it dropped to a penny

17:57:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would suspect octo is just badly supplied.

17:57:23 asciilifeform: it normally has pretty accurate figures

17:57:24 mircea_popescu: the golden standard on ic sourcing is not some derpy valley website.

17:57:27 mircea_popescu: does it ?

17:57:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a meta search

17:57:32 mircea_popescu: ianae

17:57:32 nubbins`: asciilifeform sort of the thing where you need a foot in the door before they'll even price it out for you

17:57:48 asciilifeform: nubbins`: this is my working hypothesis, marvell doesn't sell cut-tape

17:57:53 asciilifeform: (term of art)

17:58:36 asciilifeform: the other day i checked out what other system-on-chips might be cut-tapeable and have integrates sata, found nothing

17:58:42 asciilifeform: but that was just a hour's dig.

17:58:53 mircea_popescu: Chillum excellent case study in why "customer getting what it tihinks it wants" is no business plan.

17:59:07 mircea_popescu: another excellent case study, the ghetto butt lifts.

17:59:11 mircea_popescu: i could go on.

17:59:32 punkman: asciilifeform: maybe an Allwinner chip?

17:59:43 nubbins`: yeah, banana cream pi

17:59:48 asciilifeform: punkman: too heavy

17:59:49 nubbins`: or w/e the fuck

17:59:57 asciilifeform: and i fucking hate bga

18:00:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can see the case for this not being that commodified just yet. but imo unavoidable, with the trend towards it of which raspberry is just a reflection.

18:00:13 punkman: asciilifeform: what's heavy?

18:00:18 Chillum: mircea_popescu: they hire me as a developer, not a consultant

18:00:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as you can probably guess, i won't be making it just yet.

18:00:19 nubbins`: asciilifeform if you get in contact w/ marvell, you might suss out some contacts

18:00:32 punkman: there are kirkwoods without BGA?

18:00:32 Chillum: I could refuse on principal, someone else will make it

18:00:33 mircea_popescu: Chillum your loss, pay sucks, job's not different.

18:00:38 asciilifeform: nubbins`: i am not interested in vendors who need a sexual relationship just to source parts for prototype.

18:00:42 mircea_popescu: principle.

18:00:46 mircea_popescu: principal is what you owe on a loan.

18:00:51 Chillum: I do alright

18:00:59 nubbins`: hey, your life

18:01:16 Chillum: I have created some truly stupid shit for people

18:01:22 nubbins`: it's not like i don't contact Franmar when i want to find out where to buy bean-e-doo

18:01:25 Chillum: you can't cure stupid

18:01:32 mircea_popescu: you can not make more tho.

18:02:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform y u no sexual relationsheeps!

18:02:13 Chillum: freedom is the freedom to make mistakes. If people want to pay for something I will give it to them. I give free advice, it is rarely taken

18:02:22 Chillum: within reason of course

18:02:25 mircea_popescu: i can see that.

18:02:43 mircea_popescu: but the freedom to make mistakes is a luxury not a freedom.

18:02:57 asciilifeform: http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/kirkwood << no mention of samplez

18:02:58 assbot: Marvell - Embedded Processors - Kirkwood Series ... ( http://bit.ly/1NoLCqT )

18:02:58 Chillum: frankly if I told my clients that they need to use an air-gap they would tell that it does not fit their business model. They would be right

18:03:08 asciilifeform: (that's usually how you get cut-tapes from vendors who don't sell'em)

18:03:19 Chillum: mircea_popescu: without the freedom to make mistakes you are forever under the tyranny of those who are "correct"

18:03:21 asciilifeform: Chillum: then you need new clients

18:03:23 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076683 << back-up is probably more adequate a description.

18:03:23 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:58:02; PeterL: assbot is a gribble replacement

18:03:25 Chillum: we need random bad ideas

18:03:31 Chillum: sometimes they turn out to be good ideas

18:03:33 asciilifeform: Chillum: and if you can't get those, new line of work

18:03:36 mircea_popescu: and it's not in -otc for the reason any bot is not in any channel : admin didn't ask for it.

18:03:52 mircea_popescu: (we asked for gribble here long ago, which is how it got to be here)

18:04:14 mircea_popescu: Chillum it's a horrible way to exploit kids, really.

18:04:28 mircea_popescu: i'd much rather see honest sexual slavery than this bs "random bad ideas" exploitation.

18:04:40 Chillum: good to know that

18:04:51 danielpbarron: heh

18:05:10 asciilifeform: marvell registered in bermuda, l0l

18:06:06 asciilifeform: anyway -it doesn't have to be a marvell-

18:06:14 asciilifeform: just cost and feature parity.

18:06:28 asciilifeform: if someone has idle hands that can do a bit of digging - appreciated.

18:07:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i had been looking at this too.

18:07:09 mircea_popescu: nothing good popped as of yet.

18:07:09 asciilifeform: perhaps by this time next year - i'll have a part number

18:07:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been looking since before i mentioned pogo in b-a

18:07:42 mircea_popescu: i suspect on the score of electronics you actually beat my ppls.

18:07:43 asciilifeform: (it was pretty clear right off the bat that it's a loss-leader and ergo nonrenewableresource)

18:07:58 mircea_popescu: have been pondering if this pisses me off enough to do something about for a coupla months now.

18:09:10 asciilifeform: 'this' being the certain doom of pogo as off-the-shelf machine? yes, it is necessary to do something. main boojum is the ram-poverty of most available hardware in that weight class.

18:09:32 asciilifeform: hence the near inevitability of having these baked like grown men

18:09:41 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076709 << then you explained it and she was all http://www.quickmeme.com/img/28/2811d1ad07d6a35d4acb0b245abaac396ffaa4c233cac0d55a7987ebfc8d425b.jpg

18:09:41 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:08:04; nubbins`: ater some weeks: "...what's assbot?"

18:09:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0TJbX )

18:10:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, "this" being that my intel sucks!

18:10:09 asciilifeform: aha

18:10:39 mircea_popescu: ram poverty in more than one way.

18:10:44 mircea_popescu: few have fast ram.

18:11:21 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076714 << not a bad idea.

18:11:21 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:10:24; thestringpuller: I'm thinking of making a bot to determine uptime of other bots ;)

18:11:25 nubbins`: http://www.marvell.com/sales/index.jsp?location=dc

18:11:26 assbot: Marvell - Company - Sales Offices ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0UkL0 )

18:11:26 asciilifeform: most of the ones i've purchased and cut open thus far have very similar 8 to 16-bit wide sdram (ddr2 typically) - almost always 'hynix' or samsung

18:12:00 mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076730 << what's the protest over ?

18:12:00 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:36:51; nubbins`: lel, protestors have started doxxing the riot police

18:12:09 asciilifeform: nubbins`: no reason to marry marvell

18:12:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ever seen one with ddr3 ?

18:12:35 mircea_popescu: which is a better perk than whatever arm processor.

18:12:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope and not sure that i would ask for ddr3

18:12:41 asciilifeform: !s rowhammer

18:12:42 assbot: 5 results for 'rowhammer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=rowhammer

18:12:49 nubbins`: mircea_popescu nyoozpaper says austerity

18:13:03 mircea_popescu: so basically "more welfare" ?

18:13:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: did intel ever mention rowhammer ?

18:13:05 nubbins`: nubbins says latent anger from widespread protests couple years ago

18:13:13 asciilifeform: (your intel not the other intel)

18:13:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes. however!

18:13:55 mircea_popescu: it'd depend a lot on what you use it for.

18:14:11 asciilifeform: see, when i use memory, and put bits in, i expect to get them out later.

18:14:14 asciilifeform: unflipped.

18:14:22 asciilifeform: this is non-negotiable in my mind.

18:14:31 mircea_popescu: ok, let me model it.

18:14:48 nubbins`: mircea_popescu students were protesting funding cuts. in a couple of the photos, you can see police wearing stickers protesting... pension cuts.

18:14:51 asciilifeform: i don't even see 'rowhammer' as a security item, as such. just an indicator of 'this system is built on snot and bubblegum'

18:14:59 nubbins`: as they discharge tear gas canisters point-blank into faces :0

18:15:02 mircea_popescu: case 1 : you have slow memory, 64 gb of. you need 5 gb. case 2 : you have fast leaky memory, 32gb of. you still need 5gb, but use 15 for redundancy.

18:15:18 mircea_popescu: moreover, there are fixes for the particular effect, buy rowhammer proof sticks.

18:15:40 asciilifeform: ecc ?

18:15:44 mircea_popescu: for instance.

18:15:58 asciilifeform: need ecc ram controller then

18:16:08 asciilifeform: and i actually don't know of any system-on-chip that includes one

18:16:16 mircea_popescu: which was my point.

18:16:23 asciilifeform: this bodes ill for use of off-the-shelf si.

18:16:35 mircea_popescu: either that or time will resolve.

18:16:50 asciilifeform: cost pressure is squarely in opposite direction.

18:16:58 asciilifeform: so it may be a 'if not you then who' situation.

18:17:00 mats: im under the impression that ecc doesn't mitigate the attack

18:17:32 asciilifeform: mats: it is only an attack vector if you allow enemy means to hammer

18:17:43 mircea_popescu: mats these aren't really intended to be multiuser systems.

18:17:52 mircea_popescu: ecc is more general "leaky memory" thing.

18:17:54 asciilifeform: by executing code on your machine, or by knowing something about mapping of external world i/o to your ram

18:18:16 asciilifeform: i consider it a 'this thing is made of bubblegum because fuck you, you're consumer meat' vector

18:18:33 mircea_popescu: no alf. it's because fuck you, you want to spend fiddy bux.

18:18:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where do i spend 500 and get ecc systemonchip?

18:18:55 asciilifeform: nowhere

18:19:14 mircea_popescu: that's the problem there : hole in the middle.

18:19:18 mircea_popescu: it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn.

18:19:28 mircea_popescu: exactly like with wines.

18:19:46 mircea_popescu: and that's a hole that's there for thermodynamic reasons too. nobody made it.

18:19:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see, if we're gedankenexperimenting about a mass-produced equivalent of 'pogo', then unreliable hardware can be rationalized, 'отряд не заметил потери бойца' (TM) - what's one flipped bit. if we're gedankening about a 'wallet' - whole other ball game

18:20:11 mircea_popescu: i don't imagine the wallet can ever be anything but pc.

18:20:22 asciilifeform: z80

18:20:26 mircea_popescu: of the most common, ordinary or typical kind.

18:20:57 asciilifeform: i actually don't much like the rf-loudness of pc

18:21:09 Chillum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcHsT97suU <-- due to cosmic rays you should always expect the possibility of a bit flipping at random in your memory

18:21:10 assbot: DEF CON 19 - Artem Dinaburg - Bit-squatting: DNS Hijacking Without Exploitation - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1D0Xyy3 )

18:21:10 asciilifeform: esp. the '90s collectibles you and i are fond of

18:21:17 asciilifeform: !s bitsquatting

18:21:18 assbot: 8 results for 'bitsquatting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitsquatting

18:21:18 mircea_popescu: no other consideration can beat the advantages of commonality i dun think.

18:21:37 mircea_popescu: Chillum that's why he's such an error correction fanboi.

18:21:37 Chillum: I wonder if that would work on an address

18:21:51 asciilifeform: anyway there is a reason i don't work on wallets

18:21:51 Chillum: what if the error happens in your cpu or hard drive cache?

18:22:01 mircea_popescu: we don't talk about that (tm)

18:22:03 asciilifeform: 'skin in the game' problem

18:22:04 Chillum: lol,

18:22:10 mats: there's a checksum at the end of an address no?

18:22:21 mircea_popescu: there is yes.

18:22:33 Chillum: yes, in theory it could change after it is checked though

18:22:42 Chillum: but I think that would invalidate the contract

18:22:43 asciilifeform: and a proper auditable and tandem-cpu'd 'wallet' would cost more than anyone is willing to pay.

18:22:53 Chillum: so I _think_ it is not an issue.

18:22:53 asciilifeform: anything less, i don't have any interest in signing my name on.

18:23:21 mircea_popescu: "and if i find a ten foot tall transparent (not translucent!!!) woman, i might stick my penis into her

18:23:26 mircea_popescu: anything else... buzoff!"

18:23:35 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn. exactly like wines. <<< exactly like *everything*. you'll mollify some rubes with "prosumer" but that's really just $50 with more chrome

18:23:44 mircea_popescu: ikr?

18:23:53 mats: after some reinvestigation, SECDED ECC is not good enough to stop row hammering, because it can cause many bit flips. Halvar, et al found up to 25 flipped bits

18:23:59 Chillum: wine can cost more than $50???

18:24:07 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's put it this way. if i built a wallet, and put my x btc in it, no one would say 'this fella really means business'

18:24:20 asciilifeform: the folks with xxxxx will not be convinced.

18:24:26 mircea_popescu: Chillum yes.

18:24:32 asciilifeform: as they shouldn't be.

18:24:37 Chillum: a bottle that big would be hard to carry

18:24:54 Chillum: I guess it would be a box at that size

18:25:12 mircea_popescu: yes yes, we get it, very funny mr facetious joke

18:25:17 Chillum: lol

18:25:20 asciilifeform: mats: if you treat 'rowhammering' as a statistical phenomenon, instead of allowing the enemy to induce arbitrary memory access patterns on the machine, it is considerably easier to deal with.

18:25:32 Chillum: how did you know my nick name?

18:25:32 asciilifeform: 'plug the correct end of a funnel.' (TM) (al schwartz)

18:25:44 mircea_popescu: Chillum i paid $100 for a bottle of knowledge.

18:26:45 mircea_popescu: <chetty> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. << this is me trying to alter eulora database. because you really want a mmorpg server that segfaults when game designers futz with game data.

18:26:55 mircea_popescu: WHO WROTE ALL THIS SOFTWARE OFMGWTFBBQ

18:27:08 nubbins`: bbq? in argentina? get out 8)

18:27:23 asciilifeform: it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn. exactly like wines. << mircea_popescu probably did not intend this double meaning, but it is EXACTLY like wines at this point. because the 5mn computer you can get today is not actually any but a cosmetic 'golden toilet' improvement over the 50.

18:27:39 mircea_popescu: no, i intended it.

18:27:40 asciilifeform: i think there are some fascinating surprises waiting for buyers of surplus 'boeing', 'lockheed', etc.

18:28:07 asciilifeform: there -was- a time when 5mn meant that you get tandem, cosmicray-proof, etc.

18:28:22 asciilifeform: in fact,

18:28:24 chetty: mircea_popescu, to be fair it doesnt kill a running server, just keeps it from starting :P

18:28:24 asciilifeform: !s tandem nonstop

18:28:25 assbot: 0 results for 'tandem nonstop' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tandem+nonstop

18:28:27 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2010/masini-bune-si-masini-de-lux/ << me bashing the "better car is a luxury car" notion in 2010.

18:28:27 assbot: Masini bune si masini de lux pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1D10afm )

18:28:32 asciilifeform: ;;google tandem nonstop

18:28:33 gribble: Tandem Computers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandem_Computers; NonStop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NonStop; HP Integrity NonStop Servers - HP Servers | HP® Official Site: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/servers/integrity/nonstop/

18:28:36 mircea_popescu: chetty tru that.

18:28:38 asciilifeform: ^ defunct co.

18:28:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82423 @ 0.00027532 = 22.6927 BTC [-]

18:28:52 nubbins`: well ya know. luxury branded as such is precisely marketed towards the aspirational

18:29:04 asciilifeform: http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/52540/tandem

18:29:07 assbot: Tandem Definition from PC Magazine Encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1D10oTE )

18:29:07 nubbins`: actual luxury doesn't take out ad space in GQ

18:29:50 asciilifeform: nubbins`: 'luxury' isn't quite the concept i had in mind, but 'if this cpu flips a bit, kingdoms fall'

18:30:01 asciilifeform: nukexury

18:30:01 mircea_popescu: nubbins` the key of the article being, that if there's a genuinely "Better" anything, it will be in the mass market item, because the savings there are major. nobody is foregoing putting a GOOD something in an item that gets baked > 100mn units.

18:30:13 mircea_popescu: meanwhile, if there's some dubious / experimental stuff, it gets put into the luxury item

18:30:17 Chillum: store crucial info in a 5 way parity strip

18:30:25 mircea_popescu: because car makers, like any software designers, are more than willing to externalise their costs

18:30:31 nubbins`: if this cpu flips a bit, burial at space

18:30:38 mircea_popescu: exactly along the lines described in "you're the kid not good enough to sling dope"

18:30:41 Chillum: stripe that is

18:30:46 mircea_popescu: ie, let our rich customers pay for our automotive research.

18:30:51 asciilifeform: nubbins`: see how this is a somewhat different market from 'mercedes'

18:31:14 nubbins`: mircea_popescu a good example of this is when the nintendo wii came out, and researchers the world over started buying wiimotes for their labs

18:31:22 nubbins`: 3-axis gyro and accelerometers for $40

18:31:23 mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> actual luxury doesn't take out ad space in GQ << this is really just a more benign and socially acceptable restatement of alf's meta-nsa thesis.

18:31:27 nubbins`: in a nice case too!

18:31:32 mircea_popescu: yup.

18:31:35 mircea_popescu: exactly.

18:31:49 asciilifeform: Chillum: reliable computing is somewhat more than parity calculations. ('voting' protocols, heterogeneous cpus calculating same problem, etc)

18:32:07 asciilifeform: anyone have tlp's rolex article handy ?

18:32:21 mircea_popescu: "heterogenous cpus calculating same problem" seems to me like you maybe had too much of the good stuff.

18:32:23 asciilifeform: (re: 'actual luxury has no ads')

18:32:28 Chillum: valid point, no amount of checking will solve a race condition

18:32:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was actually done

18:32:41 mircea_popescu: for what ?

18:32:53 asciilifeform: it is the only pill (other than 'fits in head') against boojums like intel's fpu bug

18:32:56 funkenstein_: does that describe bitcoin?

18:33:06 mircea_popescu: (i save the "but provably ?" for later)

18:33:19 asciilifeform: for what << for spacecraft, but don't have the needed citation handy

18:33:20 mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ yes, with the bonus that forks.

18:33:37 Chillum: you can induce random failures in RAM for testing purposes with a hair dryer

18:33:51 Chillum: not good for the ram though

18:33:53 mircea_popescu: isn't this more 90s sort of stuff ?

18:34:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the interesting thing is that if you confine the proof requirements to the consensus circuit, problem becomes actually manageable

18:34:10 nubbins`: big boys use a b&d heat gun

18:34:19 asciilifeform: because it isn't turing-complete

18:34:22 Chillum: best case scenario would be to fail safe, instead of fail silently

18:34:49 asciilifeform: Chillum: sometimes you want 'fail deadly'

18:35:18 mircea_popescu: "this is your new computer ms. robinson. and to repeat our warning : if you misspell it will whip you."

18:35:29 nubbins`: asciilifeform mircea_popescu why not just invent yourselves a friedcat and scoop up some investor fundz, sell a line of USB BITCOIN ERUPTORZ for 2btc each

18:35:31 nubbins`: ;p

18:35:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l, the proverbial nazi method of teaching typing

18:35:41 Chillum: kickstarter

18:35:44 asciilifeform: electric (as in chair) typewriter

18:35:45 nubbins`: (speaking of externalizing costs)

18:35:58 mircea_popescu: nubbins` wait wut ?

18:36:18 nubbins`: ha

18:36:19 Chillum: any project can benefit from OPM

18:36:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, most people that survived a halon dump also heard the pov that "the machine just does that when it's displeased"

18:37:00 nubbins`: mircea_popescu asicminer made *thousands* of btc selling those useless keychain miners

18:37:04 asciilifeform: nubbins`: interesting observation is that the 'friedcat algorithm' only worked because miners can be let secretly to sit and mine, amplifying the proceeds of that scam

18:37:14 nubbins`: nod

18:37:19 nubbins`: this is true

18:37:29 nubbins`: first out of the gate, they probably still haven't counted all their money

18:37:44 asciilifeform: nubbins`: if they merely collected and sat on the money, there could have been no question of covering fab costs

18:37:45 mircea_popescu: well the reason they haven't is that wallet code is so damned bad.

18:38:11 asciilifeform: and especially not if they had used actual ab initio fab instead of 'hard copy fpga'

18:38:22 asciilifeform: (which is 1/10th to 1/5th the cost of the Real Deal)

18:40:12 asciilifeform: speaking of 'luxury' and orcish misunderstanding of the concept, iirc ru has the world's only aston martin showroom where -folks actually buy and drive off-

18:40:29 mircea_popescu: this because russians know enough to not have it any other way.

18:40:31 asciilifeform: to explain, such a machine in the rest of the world is built custom - seat with the skin of favourite deceased pet jaguar, etc.

18:41:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from the other pov, because in the rest of the world this machine is part of bezzleworld.

18:41:03 Chillum: They want a custom built auto, but they want it already made and waiting for them

18:41:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: normally it is presented as 'poor ru schmucks haven't learned how to be correctly rich yet'

18:41:25 mircea_popescu: better than the volga!

18:41:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and there is truth to that, yes. but not just.

18:41:40 mircea_popescu: otherwise, why'd anyone care.

18:41:47 Chillum: they like Rolexes too

18:41:58 asciilifeform: they think 'rich' means they walk in and spend 10**4 times the money and walk out with consumer box, but same overall dynamic

18:42:09 mircea_popescu: well...

18:42:17 mircea_popescu: i made hotel reservations for you lot, right ?

18:42:25 mircea_popescu: clerk is "all the guarantee we'll want is a cc"

18:42:32 mircea_popescu: "i don't use cc, and this will be paid in cash"

18:42:45 mircea_popescu: ima have to cart bricks of cash to the hotel nao. and i will.

18:43:20 mircea_popescu: because, poor ex-billionaire mp doesn't know how to be a ex-billionaire correctly, like whatever frail us schmuck.

18:43:32 *: asciilifeform thought only in usa was cash spat on this way

18:44:09 chetty: argies use almost all cash, hotels are for touristas

18:44:15 asciilifeform: Sh

18:44:16 asciilifeform: Ah

18:44:39 mircea_popescu: it's a halfway world, right ? i hope you survive the indignity :)

18:44:43 asciilifeform: l0l

18:44:47 mircea_popescu: it's not 100% us!

18:45:09 *: asciilifeform is accustomed to the chemically-pure gut-dissolving 100 percent u.s

18:45:30 mircea_popescu: how did the timisoara one look from that pov ?

18:45:35 chetty: thats a point, you guys might get chem withdrawl

18:45:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it looked like valhalla

18:45:55 mircea_popescu: o rly ? then this should be ok.

18:46:04 mircea_popescu: literally across the plaza from the casa rosada.

18:46:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.00027604 = 5.7554 BTC [+]

18:46:08 *: nubbins` recalls staying in Crowne Plaza Bogota and cutting up a particularly dense turd with a sterling silver butter knife so it would flush

18:46:08 mircea_popescu: suites, too.

18:46:21 mircea_popescu: !b 2

18:46:24 assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0H0C6AW.txt )

18:46:24 mircea_popescu: ahahaha what!

18:46:26 nubbins`: srs!!!

18:46:39 nubbins`: this was after 2 weeks in the jungles and slumming around small towns

18:46:40 mircea_popescu: dude, try eating some greens sometime.

18:46:50 nubbins`: mi estomago

18:47:20 nubbins`: notfun.jpg tried cutting in half, wasn't enough, had to slice it like a fuckin pepperoni

18:47:25 nubbins`: :(

18:47:29 trinque: hahahaha

18:47:36 mircea_popescu: this is possibly the weirdest thing i ever heard

18:47:39 mircea_popescu: did you put it on a plate ?

18:47:39 asciilifeform: nubbins`: there are actually locales in usa with pipes so narrow, that this is sop

18:47:42 nubbins`: ahahahah

18:47:48 asciilifeform: except that folks buy specially constructed toilets

18:47:55 asciilifeform: with something like a food processor built in to the pedestal

18:47:57 trinque: or you just pinch it every couple links

18:48:03 *: asciilifeform is not, unfortunately, making this up

18:48:04 nubbins`: mircea_popescu cut right in the bowl, natch

18:48:13 trinque: old buildings, well known not to drop the whole load at once

18:48:21 nubbins`: would have left it, but travelling partner also had to take huge dump

18:48:26 mircea_popescu: who does this

18:48:26 nubbins`: and the peril scared us

18:48:33 nubbins`: afaik only me :/

18:48:36 Chillum: my toilet works

18:48:48 funkenstein_: lol nubbins

18:48:49 nubbins`: for now.

18:48:57 funkenstein_: speaking of bogota you see the pics of hail last week?

18:48:58 mircea_popescu: i hate to break it to you nubbins` but this is really not normal.

18:49:05 mircea_popescu: it may be how scatophilia begins.

18:49:06 nubbins`: DUDE I HAD NO OTHER CHOICE

18:49:14 nubbins`: I LET IT SIT FOR THREE HOURS TO SOFTEN

18:49:18 Chillum: that is what all scatophiles say

18:49:21 trinque: could've just left it and never looked back

18:49:27 trinque: tragedy of the commons

18:49:36 nubbins`: trinque <+nubbins`> would have left it, but travelling partner also had to take huge dump

18:49:52 nubbins`: my shame prevented me from asking for a new room

18:49:54 trinque: just a bigger tragedy then

18:50:02 Chillum: cutting it up when you have it is not that strange. Telling people about it though...

18:50:08 mircea_popescu: "hello concierge ? yes i need a new room please, this one is full of shit."

18:50:22 trinque: I worked in a hotel once; this would not be the worst thing to encounter

18:50:28 mircea_popescu: Chillum no the telling is normal.

18:50:28 trinque: at least the turd was in the can, not the bed

18:50:42 nubbins`: heh

18:50:49 mircea_popescu: amateur shit processing however...

18:50:56 nubbins`: anyways $100usd buys you a very large amount of nice hotel room in .co

18:51:10 asciilifeform: ;;google macerator

18:51:10 gribble: Macerator - Industrial-Craft-Wiki: http://wiki.industrial-craft.net/index.php?title=Macerator; Macerator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macerator; Bathroom Anywhere Macerator Pump 120 Volt-38724.0 - Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bathroom-Anywhere-Macerator-Pump-120-Volt-38724-0/202217665

18:51:18 trinque: asciilifeform: final nub question; where's the list of these crossdev targets?

18:51:30 trinque: ^ is a lie

18:51:44 asciilifeform: gcc 'configure' --help, iirc

18:51:48 trinque: ty

18:53:00 asciilifeform: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bathroom-Anywhere-Macerator-Pump-120-Volt-38724-0/202217665 << l0l!! >> 'Ideal for basements, man-caves,...'

18:53:01 assbot: Bathroom Anywhere Macerator Pump 120 Volt-38724.0 - The Home Depot ... ( http://bit.ly/1D18U5b )

18:53:12 nubbins`: buildroot make is still bailing out while trying to compile -- no joke -- tar 1.28

18:53:23 nubbins`: this is how i learned the tar ecosystem is actually a fucking nightmare

18:53:44 nubbins`: and linux, bsd, osx implementations are all almost wholly incompatible

18:53:51 asciilifeform: nubbins`: please consider using a real computer, or if you must crapple - a vm

18:54:02 nubbins`: asciilifeform this was kinda the final straw

18:54:12 nubbins`: individual packages, i don't mind kludging

18:54:36 nubbins`: but i have no interest in dismantling buildroot from the top down

18:55:09 nubbins`: will steal wifey's machine this eve

18:55:57 asciilifeform: http://www.kandbnews.co.uk/bathrooms/just-out/saniflointroduceslim-linemaceratorpump#.VRb5NnW9_fs

18:55:58 assbot: Kitchen & Bathroom News | Saniflo introduces slim-line macerator pump ... ( http://bit.ly/1D19QX7 )

18:56:03 asciilifeform: ^ l0l re: pin-up in this ad

18:56:49 mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> this is how i learned the tar ecosystem is actually a fucking nightmare << it's reallty very very bad.

18:57:15 mircea_popescu: and for that matter, the parallels between usg-poettering "working on" linux and usgavin "working on" bitcoin are utterly striking.

18:57:44 mircea_popescu: here's this monstruous pile of serious problems in dire need of a solution, and here's the transgenderqueer crowd fixing pronouns and breaking the scant few things that almost work.

18:58:12 mircea_popescu: and no, i don't propose that there's an actual office somewhere directing this braindamage.

18:58:41 mircea_popescu: it's just that moot subcultures at the end of their rope spew singlemindedness as a natural fermentation product.

18:59:21 asciilifeform: not that there is no office where hearn et al are given winks, nudges, and stacks of benjies

18:59:36 mircea_popescu: i doubt poettering for isntance as much as saw a whiff of a whiff of that.

18:59:46 asciilifeform: (does poettering have a 'day job' ? and, if so, what is it?)

18:59:50 mircea_popescu: he has a boss in rh who has a boss who has an orlov who has an etc. six strings long, the flea circus.

19:00:04 mircea_popescu: it's being a bitch for dubious usg contractors.

19:00:13 mircea_popescu: !up jdjfjfucuysbebej

19:00:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146808 @ 0.00027532 = 40.4192 BTC [-] {2}

19:00:21 jdjfjfucuysbebej: Hi

19:00:27 mircea_popescu: ello.

19:00:42 jdjfjfucuysbebej: Why do you need to be upped?

19:00:44 asciilifeform: meowmix ?

19:00:46 danielpbarron: !up Bagels7

19:00:57 mircea_popescu: i don't need to be upped. you do.

19:01:03 jdjfjfucuysbebej: Why

19:01:14 mircea_popescu: so this difference between us is enforced in a way you can't ignore.

19:01:21 jdjfjfucuysbebej: Yeah

19:01:57 danielpbarron: so "uppity"

19:02:00 mircea_popescu: lol

19:02:09 nubbins`: !down jdjfjfucuysbebej

19:02:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64150 @ 0.00027806 = 17.8375 BTC [+] {3}

19:02:26 nubbins`: dat androirc@

19:02:27 mircea_popescu: well at least he got his isp to give him a new ip.

19:02:30 nubbins`: yeah!

19:02:37 nubbins`: it's like 1.5x as much ip as last time

19:02:41 mircea_popescu: which - the cunts - made an ipv6. such service.

19:02:49 asciilifeform: seems like he's on a pNohe

19:02:54 asciilifeform: hence new ip

19:02:57 nubbins`: ah!

19:02:58 mircea_popescu: any good gf pov ?

19:03:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47550 @ 0.00028032 = 13.3292 BTC [+] {2}

19:03:42 mircea_popescu: holy shit 28 ? MEAT TONIGHT!

19:04:22 trinque: for the other crossdev newbs, gcc -dumpmachine will (I think?) give what must be plonked into crossdev --target

19:04:41 mats: it rises

19:06:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so random ssd question for you. aren't the reads destructive just as writes are ? how come not if not ?

19:06:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: read measures charge. high-impedance circuit, so 'bubble' isn't moving

19:06:33 asciilifeform: hence no appreciable ion migration.

19:06:44 mircea_popescu: but!

19:06:47 mircea_popescu: these cells are tiny.

19:06:55 mircea_popescu: how the fuck do they measure charge without altering it

19:07:21 asciilifeform: not -that- tiny.

19:07:21 Chillum: blocks are rewritten on a schedule in most firmware I think

19:07:30 Chillum: part of wear levelling

19:07:39 asciilifeform: Chillum: that wasn't the question

19:07:49 Chillum: I guess I misunderstood

19:07:50 mircea_popescu: Chillum that was more of a "we want this hardware to last 25 months exactly" marketin thing i thought

19:07:53 nubbins`: dat NTFS write scheme

19:08:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77189 @ 0.00027266 = 21.0464 BTC [-] {4}

19:08:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how tiny ? afaik the controlling factor limitng memory atm is that they can't make it thinner than it is because single layer silicone and tunelling becoems a thing.

19:08:45 mircea_popescu: well if that's the case...

19:09:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'read-disturb' is a thing, yes

19:09:08 asciilifeform: but, iirc, small.

19:09:12 asciilifeform: but not zero.

19:09:16 mircea_popescu: how much of a thing ? 100 reads ? 1mn reads ?

19:09:30 mircea_popescu: what's the per-read LD50 of memory i wish to know!

19:10:06 nubbins`: you want that in mg/kg?

19:10:19 mircea_popescu: lol

19:10:26 mircea_popescu: nah, count per capita.

19:10:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47620 @ 0.00028053 = 13.3588 BTC [+]

19:10:32 nubbins`: nb

19:11:20 asciilifeform: afaik there is no published data.

19:11:41 asciilifeform: other than 'it exists' and 'commercial nand flash controllers compensate in proprietary ways' (l0l yes)

19:11:42 mircea_popescu: interesting huh.

19:11:51 mircea_popescu: anyways.

19:12:26 asciilifeform: my understanding is that 'read-disturb' is largely temporary.

19:12:35 mircea_popescu: why would it be temporary ?

19:12:49 nubbins`: bbl food!

19:12:59 asciilifeform: because results from residual charge from neighbouring signal to select the row/col. to read.

19:13:09 asciilifeform: rather than a 'reflashing' of a bit.

19:13:17 mircea_popescu: then this isn't really the effect i was talking about

19:13:22 mircea_popescu: but a sort of low level rowhammer

19:13:26 Chillum: 'commercial nand flash controllers compensate in proprietary ways' = rewriting the block every X reads

19:13:38 mircea_popescu: yeah.

19:13:50 asciilifeform: -consecutive- reads

19:13:52 asciilifeform: thinkaboutit

19:14:00 asciilifeform: or you'd need a whole other array to count.

19:14:17 asciilifeform: turtles for the turtles to stand on.

19:14:21 mircea_popescu: i think they count by row

19:14:24 mircea_popescu: and reflash by row

19:14:28 Chillum: plus retiring nands and using unused ones after X accesses. One of the ways they hide decay

19:14:29 mircea_popescu: i know they write per row in any case.

19:14:47 asciilifeform: http://www.yaffs.net/documents/yaffs-nand-flash-failure-mitigation#Read_disturb

19:14:48 assbot: Yaffs NAND flash failure mitigation | Yaffs ... ( http://bit.ly/1D1gEnv )

19:14:50 asciilifeform: ^ small likbez

19:15:00 Chillum: not sure about the exact granularity

19:16:01 mircea_popescu: in any case about 1/4 of the total capacity of a ssd is not actually shown the os.

19:16:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in recent devices, even more.

19:16:14 mircea_popescu: there's ample room in there to count by row, and keep reserves etc.

19:16:16 mircea_popescu: right.

19:17:13 Chillum: nice link

19:17:14 asciilifeform: 'hammers' were always somewhat interesting. who here remembers 'walking drum disks' ?

19:17:33 Chillum: from the wall?

19:17:33 asciilifeform: also a kind of 'software hammer' where unbalanced rotor effect was induced

19:17:41 asciilifeform: those things could easily walk through a cement wall

19:24:12 mircea_popescu: anyone know a fast and painless way to make subtitles for a youtube ?

19:26:44 funkenstein_: i was asking a database guy about log structured databases like the blockchain

19:26:49 funkenstein_: he told me to read about ssd filesystems

19:27:04 funkenstein_: and no, sorry, i don't

19:50:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50883 @ 0.00027476 = 13.9806 BTC [-]

19:55:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00028053 = 9.51 BTC [+]

20:03:35 jurov: ;;google closed captioning service

20:03:37 gribble: Closed Captioning Services - Home Page: http://www.ccscaption.com/; Closed Captioning Service | Subtitles: http://captionmax.com/; Captionlabs: Closed Caption Service, Closed Captioning Services: http://www.captionlabs.com/

20:03:46 jurov: ^ mircea_popescu may be what you need

20:05:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00028065 = 1.7962 BTC [+] {2}

20:07:04 trinque: got muh cross compiler cross compilin'

20:07:16 *: trinque gets food, then will try to build the foundation's bitcoind

20:07:38 jurov: have a blood of stillborn ready?

20:08:18 trinque: how bout some sacrificial cats?

20:14:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00028066 = 19.4497 BTC [+]

20:17:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98900 @ 0.00028066 = 27.7573 BTC [+]

20:20:45 trinque: changing the arch in auto.sh didn't seem to work

20:21:07 trinque: saw it using system g++ anyway, failed to link the result

20:28:38 trinque: found the relevant patches

20:29:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24632 @ 0.00028066 = 6.9132 BTC [+]

20:29:57 mircea_popescu: jurov hm ?

20:30:41 mod6: trinque: what OS/arch ?

20:30:50 trinque: mod6: trying to cross compile for the pogo

20:30:55 mod6: oh, ok.

20:39:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fansub << yes!

20:39:12 asciilifeform: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/rcQaef4yYJyn/info/moia-masterskaia

20:39:13 assbot: Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1D8LfPk )

20:39:16 asciilifeform: ^ i used it to fansub a youtube

20:39:19 asciilifeform: deadly simple

20:39:46 asciilifeform: (won't overlay on youtube unless you're the one who posted the film, naturally)

20:40:04 asciilifeform: i searched far and wide for a fansub tool, ended up with that

20:40:59 asciilifeform: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/rcQaef4yYJyn/en/915426 << correct link for sub

20:41:00 assbot: Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1EhAhJC )

20:44:12 asciilifeform: trinque: the absolute best way to do crossdev, imho, is 1) have a gentoo box and use 'crossdev' emerge tool which magically builds the toolchains correctly 2) wait for buildroot

20:44:47 trinque: asciilifeform: I have crossdev and built a simple main.c which ran on the pogo

20:45:02 asciilifeform: (or don't wait, if you download the stock version and build the 'sheevaplug' thing - it gives almost usable kernel)

20:46:26 asciilifeform: (re: that film: no, i am not personally acquainted with the fella who made the film.)

20:48:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25250 @ 0.00028066 = 7.0867 BTC [+]

20:49:16 ben_vulpes: trinque: a hack that i've seen to work is building for arch in a docker container

20:49:19 ben_vulpes: ymmv

20:49:35 ben_vulpes: but that's how bizpartner compiles his flugenputer

20:49:51 trinque: ben_vulpes: really just waiting for someone to say "auto.sh doesn't do that yet" so I am aware of whether I'm wasting time fixing it :D

20:50:18 trinque: seems mad about the arch being passed to the openssl compile, which could either be me not having the right environment encantations or who knows

20:50:39 *: trinque doesn't mind continuing to hump the football

20:50:53 ben_vulpes: odd image

20:50:59 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al.: instructive re: earlier thread today >> https://octopart.com/search?q=sata&filter%5Bfields%5D%5Bcategory_uids%5D%5B%5D=c8d405def9791313&start=0&filter%5Bfields%5D%5Bavg_avail%5D%5B%5D=%5B1%20TO%20*%5D

20:51:00 assbot: sata - Octopart ... ( http://bit.ly/1EhClkM )

20:51:11 asciilifeform: ^ note the prices.

20:53:50 asciilifeform: summary: the cheapest commercially-advertised microcontroller with integrates sata costs more than 'pogo' even in qty. 10,000+.

20:53:56 asciilifeform: -the chip alone.-

20:54:19 asciilifeform: not even speaking of board, ram, ethernet magnetics & connector, ..., ....

20:54:31 asciilifeform: commercially, that is, in the public english-speaking world.

20:55:13 asciilifeform: i am very much hoping to be proven mistaken about this!

20:55:34 asciilifeform: (and no, didn't only check the meta-search engine 'octopart' but every single one of my favourite suppliers.)

20:59:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.00028071 = 6.4563 BTC [+] {2}

21:06:02 nubbins`: asciilifeform re: octopart: lel, think we can run turdel on an Atmel Butterfly? :S

21:07:25 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> anyone know a fast and painless way to make subtitles for a youtube ? <<< http://captiongenerator.com/

21:07:26 assbot: Add Captions to Any Youtube Video - Caption Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1EhFMbo )

21:07:40 nubbins`: mircea_popescu also for top lel: http://captiongenerator.com/29786/woodcollector-hitler

21:07:41 assbot: woodcollector hitler - Caption Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1EhFNMq )

21:08:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45350 @ 0.00028083 = 12.7356 BTC [+]

21:10:51 asciilifeform: nubbins`: where's the sata and Gb ethernet ?

21:11:15 nubbins`: dude it has a piezo speaker and a pin for your lapel, what more do you want?

21:12:29 nubbins`: anyway long+short we'll never get a deal like the pogos until, well, the next pogo-like thing comes along

21:12:58 nubbins`: i doubt pogo paid less than $18/unit.

21:13:42 nubbins`: (for those wondering how $18 can turn profit for amazon sellers -- the current sellers are likely the ones who scooped up pallet loads at $7ea in prior years)

21:19:10 jurov: http://www.cnet.com/news/iron-sky-2-nazis-lizard-people-and-hitler-on-a-t-rex/ googled too lizard hitler and... we gotta use this pic sometime

21:19:12 assbot: 'Iron Sky 2': Nazis, lizard people and Hitler on a T.rex - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1NprR4k )

21:21:10 jurov: what about a contest - best memepic made out of it?

21:23:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00028083 = 16.3162 BTC [+]

21:29:47 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a danke

21:30:45 nubbins`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromecast#Hardware

21:30:47 assbot: Chromecast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Npua7A )

21:31:36 nubbins`: MFW an avr butterfly costs more than a SATA pogo

21:32:06 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nice.

21:33:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in fairness, there's 0 price sensitivity from 1 to 10k. pleads against octosite being too useful.

21:33:53 nubbins`: almost none of the items give price breaks beyond 100

21:33:58 nubbins`: some, not even then

21:34:19 mircea_popescu: yeah well...

21:34:22 mircea_popescu: !up d9b4bef9

21:35:13 nubbins`: hi d9b4bef9

21:39:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25050 @ 0.0002787 = 6.9814 BTC [-] {2}

21:46:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 220370 @ 0.00027476 = 60.5489 BTC [-]

21:48:33 jurov: https://medium.com/@octskyward/replace-by-fee-43edd9a1dd6d power rangers fight over messing up zeroconf

21:48:34 assbot: Replace by fee — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpxEa1 )

21:49:18 nubbins`: heh

21:50:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00027191 = 7.0425 BTC [-]

21:53:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00027191 = 2.5967 BTC [-]

21:55:57 mircea_popescu: " Blowing up 0-confirm transactions is vandalism."

21:56:17 mircea_popescu: lol at these kids. vandalism, racism, chauvinism et all. the bad words of a new generation.

21:57:09 nubbins`: anything to be gained by enabling mmu support in buildroot? spidey sense says no

21:57:30 mircea_popescu: i can't see what it'd help

21:58:11 mircea_popescu: "It?s absolutely essential for buying stuff in shops. A currency that can?t be used to buy a newspaper on the street is not going to be seen as a real currency by the man on that street." << again and again with this nonsense. what the "man on the street" sees or doesn't see, accepts or hates, whatever the fuck is entirely unimportant.

21:58:29 mircea_popescu: not that i think the replace by fee idea is worth implementing, but the reasons given are lulzy.

21:59:33 mircea_popescu: for the record : a node can do this currently, if a node feels like doing this currently. whether we like it or not is immaterial, really. some miners tried it historically, but it's generally speaking dumb an' so it never caught on.

21:59:45 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> lol at these kids. vandalism, racism, chauvinism et all. the bad words of a new generation. <<< hurtyfeelism

22:00:01 nubbins`: man on the street using special drawing rights to purchase a coffee

22:00:09 mircea_popescu: myeah. it's just... utterly confused.

22:00:51 mircea_popescu: sort-of like seeing footballers trying to reason about medicine. that's what this entire "buncha derpy kids + some usg moles debating bitcoin" looks to me : like a bunch of nfl picks got parachuted in senegal, and are now trying to get themselves cured of tb

22:01:01 mircea_popescu: "maybe if we hit it really hard with THIS rock!"

22:01:10 mircea_popescu: "dude you threw the rock like a girl"

22:01:34 mircea_popescu: "nu uh urmom!"

22:01:36 nubbins`: oh wow, osx actually shipped with bsd-tar AND gnu-tar until 10.9

22:01:36 mircea_popescu: etc etc

22:05:20 jurov: re: reliable computers vs. luxury cars...apples and oranges

22:05:43 mircea_popescu: industrial products are industrial products. all of them. without exception. exactly the same thing.

22:05:59 mircea_popescu: and, for that matter, the very people in the more "advanced" economies are by now exactly industrial products.

22:06:00 jurov: i haven't heard about "luxury car" with doubled or triply-redundant engine and other stuff

22:06:28 jurov: to achieve 99.9999 whatever uptime

22:06:34 mircea_popescu: the exact way reliability is implemented depends more on the context neh ?

22:06:39 mircea_popescu: you ever heard of car that won't start ?

22:06:50 jurov: yes. and luxury ones, too

22:06:54 mircea_popescu: i haven't.

22:07:01 mircea_popescu: (luxury i mean)

22:07:50 jurov: better comparison would be a car that can go for years without service break

22:08:41 jurov: or serviceable during movement

22:08:44 mircea_popescu: ok

22:08:47 jurov: hence, apples and oranges

22:09:33 mircea_popescu: lol @hearn : "So: money is not a mathematical construct. It?s a social construct. The fact that Bitcoin uses some fairly basic maths to coordinate social decisions over the internet doesn?t change that."

22:09:46 mircea_popescu: apparently the eater-of-worlds interepretation of bitcoin got some pretty high level people involved.

22:09:59 mircea_popescu: yes derps, "money" as in usd is a social construct. money as in bitcoin is not a social construct.

22:10:13 mircea_popescu: this is why we're here. cause the superset of your shit is the way to clean your shit out of this world.

22:10:33 nubbins`: money is not a mathematical construct?

22:11:12 mircea_popescu: eh, he has a skeleton of good points, on which he plants the usual bs.

22:11:18 *: nubbins` invites hearn to use money without numbers

22:11:24 mircea_popescu: kinda par for the course for assets rly.

22:11:39 nubbins`: what next, statistics is not a mathematical construct?

22:11:57 mircea_popescu: notably, he's on medium.

22:12:11 mircea_popescu: nubbins` nothing's anything and if you have a business obama made that business

22:12:14 mircea_popescu: check your privilege.

22:12:23 nubbins`: D:

22:13:09 mircea_popescu: but anyway : usd is currently trying to use money without numbers.

22:13:23 mircea_popescu: which ties in quite hysterically into the romanian expression "Fara numar"

22:13:55 mircea_popescu: which is very instructive, because it's gypsytalk for "a lot of money". which is the problem of being a gypsy : very good social, very poor maths, failure to thrive in the world.

22:14:54 mircea_popescu: https://www.google.com/search?q=fara+numar&complete=0&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&sa=X < illustrations.

22:14:55 assbot: fara numar - Google zoeken ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpCMv4 )

22:15:49 TomServo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1077008 << I'm curious to flesh this out a bit.

22:15:49 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 16:44:11; mircea_popescu: Chillum completely unrelated : do you have any fucking idea how desired a bitcoin host is here ?

22:16:18 mircea_popescu: TomServo you couldn't have missed it in the logs ? we want a bitcoin hosting corp.

22:16:26 mircea_popescu: what rg was supposed to run before going nuts.

22:17:10 TomServo: Say a guy had a nearly a racks worth a few generations old HP gear his workplace was going to get rid of.. and his own private stash of similiar era network gear.

22:17:26 mircea_popescu: so start a dc.

22:17:27 TomServo: And could be inspired to seek out colo pricing.. would this be of interest as a starting point?

22:17:31 nubbins`: mircea_popescu lel http://i.imgur.com/NV71EV0.png

22:17:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpDf0b )

22:17:38 mircea_popescu: very

22:17:50 nubbins`: (for bonus lel, "related pictures" #2)

22:18:24 nubbins`: algorithm: "oh, here's a dude blowing a big hair-icicle. this works."

22:20:10 mircea_popescu: nubbins` in romanian, it's a thing.

22:20:48 mircea_popescu: (literally that means "unbounded talent", but in that context talent would strictly denote a whore's talent, and it is only used ironically. so it's an apt caption for a teenager derping with a faux cock)

22:20:49 TomServo: mircea_popescu: I'd imagine being usian based would be a problem, tho?

22:21:12 mircea_popescu: TomServo lock the cages, superglue the locks lol

22:21:49 nubbins`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz3lJX92ly0

22:21:50 assbot: Leonard Cohen - Dress Rehearsal Rag - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpE5tS )

22:22:10 TomServo: mircea_popescu: heh, I'm for it! I'm honestly trying consider it here... though I feel I might need a financial attorney to sort everything out given my locale.

22:22:10 nubbins`: if i forgot english i'd learn it again for cohen

22:22:35 mircea_popescu: TomServo colocation is a service, ship them to fucking malysia if you care.

22:23:37 TomServo: mircea_popescu: It's an option I suppose.. but I was thinking my hands of the hardware would be a big piece of what I'm selling.

22:23:46 mircea_popescu: alrighty, that also.

22:24:07 mircea_popescu: i'm just saying, the need is there. as long as you clearly advertise what exactly you do and then stick to it exactly... it'll have custom.

22:26:09 TomServo: Well I'll ponder it some more and welcome any further feedback on the aging infrastructure being proposed and it's utility.

22:26:24 TomServo: its* :)

22:27:31 mircea_popescu: the one serious problem for you, or anyone else trying to do business in the us (say, cisco) is that sooner or later your government will try and rape you with those "secret legal proceedings" bs.

22:28:00 mircea_popescu: at that point, you'll be in the lavamail seat. either you become complicit with the criminals, or else you'll be prosecuted by the criminals.

22:28:36 mircea_popescu: (either side's claim as to the criminality of the other being unresolvable, since no rule of law, since "secret proceedings")

22:31:49 TomServo: Right, so doing this in the US is simply untenable - no?

22:32:00 mircea_popescu: but i guess you could do something like the traditional "We have received no unmentionable paperwork from local band of criminals" monthly announcement

22:32:06 mircea_popescu: since you can't be legally compelled to actually lie.

22:32:12 mircea_popescu: it'll be a tough walk tho.

22:32:32 mircea_popescu: well, it's tenable if you're looking to pick a fight.

22:32:38 TomServo: This being the 'warrant canary'?

22:32:44 mircea_popescu: yea

22:35:31 trinque: http://justsecurity.org/20850/government-slight-concession-twitters-warrant-canary-suit/

22:35:32 assbot: US Government Makes Slight Concession in Twitter’s Warrant-Canary Suit | Just Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpGODx )

22:35:35 jurov: TomServo: I want to do hosting too, but wanted a partner

22:35:45 trinque: "the government concedes that companies who have never received any kind of national-security request from the government and who are not bound by other nondisclosure provisions vis-à-vis the government may lawfully publish warrant canaries publicizing that fact."

22:35:51 trinque: so, better start with one, it seems

22:36:36 trinque: other relevant info worth reading there

22:37:16 TomServo: jurov: Thoughts on the discussion so far?

22:38:16 jurov: physical hw location does not matter to me, can be the best korea or whatever

22:38:36 jurov: and if you did not have the offer, i can shop around here

22:39:16 jurov: or perhaps having both us and eu right from the start would be best

22:40:02 mircea_popescu: ah yes, the famous rsync one http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt

22:40:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xo959M )

22:40:15 mircea_popescu: but they use a shitty signature shceme and wtf, reference bitcoin block hashes already

22:40:39 mircea_popescu: jurov eu understood as slovakia is particularly useful.

22:40:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49437 @ 0.00027288 = 13.4904 BTC [+] {2}

22:42:09 jurov: yes, it may end up in czech rep or so

22:43:02 trinque: asciilifeform: any opposition to me adding a parameter for a few predefined architectures in auto.sh?

22:43:03 mircea_popescu: the czechs should totally go back to kingdom

22:43:20 trinque: I've got it cross-compiling nicely from a gentoo host, currently munching through boost

22:43:34 mats: i wouldn't mind lending a hand if you're looking for help

22:43:47 trinque: ben_vulpes: "monkey humping a football" << couldn't be a more apt description of the process I used to get crossdev working with auto.sh

22:43:49 funkenstein_: i have used bitcoincloud.eu with no trouble yet

22:43:53 TomServo: jurov: what do you mean 'not have the offer'?

22:44:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101500 @ 0.00027566 = 27.9795 BTC [+] {2}

22:44:40 jurov: you consider hosting because you got the gear offered, no?

22:46:00 TomServo: I'm interested in the prospect in general.. the hardware availablity just being a perk. I was curious if there was legitmate interest in this hardware specifically.

22:46:54 jurov: if it does not have features like iLO remote pwnkit, that is considered plus here

22:47:04 mircea_popescu: lol

22:47:55 TomServo: heh of course.. unfortunately.. these have it.

22:48:09 mircea_popescu: b-a sourced host, this should be interesting.

22:48:58 mircea_popescu: jurov "HP iLO - The preferred IT administrator in every ProLiant server" you fudster you.

22:49:27 mircea_popescu: "HP iLO functions out-of-the-box without additional software installation regardless of the servers' state of operation giving you complete access to your server from any location via a web browser or the iLO Mobile App"

22:49:37 mircea_popescu: i hope it has ssl. you know, for the api.

22:50:07 jurov: overall, being able to learn on cheap older stuff is nice to have

22:50:08 mircea_popescu: TomServo incidentally, they being your machines, you can take a hammer at parts.

22:50:14 jurov: imo

22:50:29 TomServo: I agree.

22:50:43 mircea_popescu: "what's the most important tool in the arsenal of the security consultant ?"

22:50:47 mircea_popescu: "a #3 chisel"

22:52:04 *: trinque wonders what the fuck python headers have to do with boost

22:52:52 jurov: do you have USE=python set?

22:53:03 jurov: it may be the default

22:53:06 trinque: jurov: just running the auto.sh

22:53:15 trinque: probably lots to be snipped out of the boost config

22:53:18 trinque: probably better to snip boost

22:53:44 jurov: this was discussed

22:53:57 trinque: I am well aware, just marveling at what I see in my terminal

22:54:14 jurov: and conclusion was, that any bigger c++ project needs it (or poor reimplementation of it)

22:54:21 jurov: kk

22:55:41 jurov: so, TomServo?

22:57:20 TomServo: jurov: I'ma thinking.

23:02:06 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_modem

23:02:51 ascii_modem: nubbins': linux with disabled mmu id... msdos!! in the bad sense

23:03:04 ascii_modem: *is

23:03:40 ascii_modem: in machine shop, ugh, cold fingers

23:04:50 mircea_popescu: why would you want to do software mmu ?

23:05:23 ascii_modem: 0 price sensitivity below 10k << false for all common parts. try it

23:05:33 ascii_modem: software mmu?!

23:05:36 ascii_modem: lol

23:05:45 mircea_popescu: what is it doing in linux then ?

23:05:47 *: mircea_popescu confused

23:06:11 ascii_modem: support -for- mmu

23:06:29 mircea_popescu: *tripletake*

23:06:32 mircea_popescu: oohhh.

23:06:40 mircea_popescu: thanks god someone reads these logs o.O

23:06:53 ascii_modem: but yeah for uniquely impoverished archs there is mmuless linux

23:07:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54376 @ 0.00027611 = 15.0138 BTC [+] {2}

23:10:15 mircea_popescu: !up odyjm

23:10:22 ascii_modem: canary << mega-lol, apple killed their canary. who noticed, who remembers now ?

23:11:05 mircea_popescu: me.

23:11:08 ben_vulpes: i noticed.

23:11:13 ben_vulpes: everyone i work with knows.

23:11:13 ascii_modem: and me aha

23:11:21 mircea_popescu: what, you think i don't like apple because of its hairdo ?

23:12:03 ben_vulpes: weird hairdos come with good bjs

23:12:09 ben_vulpes: (sometimes)

23:12:12 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/e11f97d0aed79e6d22c67e293d63ecc3/tumblr_mx97scN9DM1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg << country bumpkin reaches california. first day, burn the tits. next day, burn the butt.

23:12:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJz8Zh )

23:12:15 ben_vulpes: but this weird hairdo has the clap

23:12:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51107 @ 0.00027137 = 13.8689 BTC [-] {3}

23:12:36 mircea_popescu: "don't like" != "weird" mr.

23:14:21 TomServo: ascii_modem | canary << was hoping this would be mentioned. So what is the value? zilch?

23:14:47 mircea_popescu: pre dropping or post ?

23:15:28 TomServo: the apple case specifically

23:15:44 ben_vulpes: the honor of a few at the top. maybe. if they get out and come here.

23:16:36 ben_vulpes: for a btc host, not a bad idea. low cost.

23:16:54 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in a mexican jail, http://41.media.tumblr.com/aba956207a733186c3f6b54d0b45de34/tumblr_mjeeokHoua1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg

23:16:55 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19c4490 )

23:23:50 jurov: http://fortune.com/2015/03/10/american-millennials-are-among-the-worlds-least-skilled/ hue

23:23:51 assbot: American Millennials are among the world's least skilled - Fortune ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJA8gc )

23:29:45 *: asciilifeform set up enormous power saw, other things, back now

23:30:31 mircea_popescu: not surprising.

23:30:42 mircea_popescu: but hey, at least they challenged patriarchy.

23:30:54 asciilifeform: mexican jail << possibly favourite of all the pics i've seen so far here

23:31:25 ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform set up enormous power saw << pics?

23:31:34 asciilifeform: it's a 'hitachi'

23:31:40 asciilifeform: did not occur to me to take a photo

23:31:44 asciilifeform: everyone already has this saw.

23:31:48 ben_vulpes: chop?

23:31:49 asciilifeform: (recced by diametric)

23:32:11 jurov: my mom was using "husqvarna"

23:32:15 jurov: sewing machine.

23:32:18 mircea_popescu: When the results were analyzed by age group and nationality, ETS got a shock. It turns out, says a new report, that Millennials in the U.S. fall short when it comes to the skills employers want most: literacy (including the ability to follow simple instructions), practical math, and ? hold on to your hat ? a category called ?problem-solving in technology-rich environments.?

23:32:34 asciilifeform: http://www.hitachipowertools.com/images/product/saws/miter_saws/C10FSH.jpg << that one

23:32:35 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJAPpO )

23:32:35 ben_vulpes: really?

23:32:41 mircea_popescu: "Not only do Gen Y Americans lag far behind their overseas peers by every measure, but they even score lower than other age groups of Americans."

23:32:54 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: coulda sworm you said "enormous"...

23:33:12 asciilifeform: enormous compared to the tiny jeweler's saw i'm accustomed to

23:33:17 ben_vulpes: ah

23:33:27 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes probably imagined meat processing plant chopper for whole pigs / corpses

23:33:32 funkenstein_: ETS got a shock <-- the funny bit

23:33:45 mircea_popescu: Altogether, the top U.S. Gen Yers, in the 90th percentile, ?scored lower than their counterparts in 15 countries,? the report notes, ?and only scored higher than their peers in Spain.?

23:33:52 mircea_popescu: pretty much exactly what one expected.

23:33:52 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i was honestly wondering about its orientation and axes of articulation.

23:34:03 trinque: mircea_popescu: the simple instructions bit is as much mental illness as it is literacy

23:34:08 asciilifeform: ^

23:34:28 trinque: and that is largely due to terrible upbringing and terrible diet through formative years

23:34:44 trinque: current generation and below is probably irreparably fucked

23:34:51 mircea_popescu: diet has possibly less to do with it than gayness.

23:35:05 trinque: dunno, does mountain dew *cause* gayness?

23:35:07 mircea_popescu: well... "gayness", the faux cultural homosexuality the us came up with to try and avoid facing the actual problem

23:35:53 mircea_popescu: anyway, human populations are not linear. the current twentysomething/late teens are completely discardable out of hand, like so much rag.

23:35:59 mircea_popescu: however, the next one will probably shine.

23:36:02 mircea_popescu: generations alternate.

23:36:16 ben_vulpes: actual problems to cut their teeth on.

23:36:17 mircea_popescu: in any case, it's for the nine year olds we're even building all this wot bitcoin etc stack

23:36:32 *: trinque nods

23:36:50 mircea_popescu: but when 2025 rolls around and late 30s/early 40s dumb fat fucks inquire as to why we're fucking teenagers

23:37:02 mircea_popescu: the answer will be a uniform, resounding "because you're fucking stupid"

23:37:18 mircea_popescu: "every chance you had, you blew it!"

23:37:19 trinque: I'm trying to find a figure on the number of USAians on psychiatric meds

23:37:22 trinque: ...it's high, whatever it is

23:37:28 mircea_popescu: like a third ?

23:37:41 trinque: that or higher, I'd wager

23:37:54 asciilifeform: counting the ones in the drinking water or no ?

23:37:55 trinque: one thing I wait eagerly to see is when those run dry

23:38:14 trinque: asciilifeform: no, but of course all pollutants come to the party

23:38:18 mircea_popescu: What does that mean for U.S. employers hiring people born since 1980? Goodman notes that hiring managers shouldn?t overestimate the practical value of a four-year degree. True, U.S. Millennials with college credentials did score higher on the PIAAC than Americans with only a high school diploma (albeit less well than college grads in most other countries).

23:38:37 mircea_popescu: lmao! most expensive mit in the world. also only place in the world where mit grads can not use a battery to light a bulb.

23:39:10 asciilifeform: the exam that only measures what it wants to measure and not first and mostly willingness-to-do-exam is not yet born

23:39:12 mircea_popescu: trinque in general nature has well designed things : junkies in withdrawal are ineffectual.

23:39:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion one even gets a choice in that matter is pernicious.

23:39:46 asciilifeform: in what ?

23:39:50 mircea_popescu: kinda why you want to hang all kids that do under x.

23:39:55 asciilifeform: aha that

23:40:02 mircea_popescu: that way, the "willingness to do exam" is less divergent.

23:40:08 asciilifeform: yeah i've for many years wanted to see the 'iq exam' thing automated

23:40:34 asciilifeform: as in, there's a pira?a pit trap door

23:40:36 asciilifeform: which opens.

23:40:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00028083 = 2.2466 BTC [+]

23:40:59 trinque: ahaha, asciilifeform is a bond villain

23:41:15 mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/900eef46da7c13a7fa7cc84362e4b4ce/tumblr_mjefgkz3Zj1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg << this too alf ?

23:41:16 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJBAiH )

23:41:29 asciilifeform: this less

23:41:32 asciilifeform: but similar.

23:42:27 mircea_popescu: how about http://41.media.tumblr.com/361fb40b8fe63114ef35b350f3fb66f4/tumblr_mjefebG4dN1s78jo7o1_1280.jpg ?

23:42:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJBGql )

23:42:29 mircea_popescu: !up zen_

23:42:38 asciilifeform: aha

23:42:40 asciilifeform: not sure why

23:42:41 asciilifeform: but yes.

23:42:43 trinque: lol

23:42:47 mircea_popescu: because girls playing in the bath ? lol.

23:42:49 mircea_popescu: classical theme.

23:42:54 asciilifeform: not the bath, no

23:43:01 asciilifeform: they look like actual gurlz

23:43:10 asciilifeform: vs the bizarre kabuki thing that i never imprinted on

23:43:18 mircea_popescu: oh ic.

23:43:36 mircea_popescu: best kept secret by patriarchy : men actulaly like women.

23:44:30 nubbins`: <+ascii_modem> nubbins': linux with disabled mmu id... msdos!! in the bad sense <<< omg this is why i shop here!

23:46:25 asciilifeform: 22:13:05 up 1 day, 22:13, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00