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Transcript for 28-03-2017, 159 lines:

05:11:15 kakobrekla: meanwhile in the treches https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/61pgzz/what_should_bitbet_do_with_our_customers_monies/

05:11:18 assbot: What should BitBet do with our customer's monies in the event of a hard fork? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/2npk3JB )

05:14:24 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2017#1468709 < It has a face value of $1 million, but by weight alone it would be worth approximately $4 million US at market prices.

05:14:24 assbot: Logged on 27-03-2017 21:24:13; pankkake: http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/cdn-coin-berlin-stolen-1.4042325

05:14:25 kakobrekla: cool

05:14:37 kakobrekla: makes economic sense to melt it

05:19:40 kakobrekla: funny hows its labled as 'entertainment'

05:20:30 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: it'd make sense to melt it if the face value meant anything

05:21:04 asciilifeform: as it is , it is sold by numismatic valuel just like the gold 'dollar' ( worth, what, 100s )

05:21:13 asciilifeform: *value

05:22:16 kakobrekla: what makes you think face value doesnt mean anything

05:22:31 kakobrekla: this is what will likely happen to it if not found in short time, is my guess

05:23:37 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the mint will happily give you its fave value in paper, lol. but you'd have to smoke crack to consider it a deal

05:23:52 asciilifeform: and yes it'll be melted.

05:24:07 asciilifeform: *face value in

05:24:15 kakobrekla: im still not following what is causing you trouble

05:24:31 kakobrekla: you have a problem with paper money?

05:24:52 kakobrekla: the same paper money that your are slaving away for and buying bread with?

05:24:57 kakobrekla: is that it?

05:25:03 asciilifeform: noshit

05:25:14 kakobrekla: why do you keep doing it

05:25:19 kakobrekla: if its all bs

05:25:46 kakobrekla: the face value of the coin means you dont have to do that any more

05:25:49 asciilifeform: because not sitting on massive stash of kakobreklade ?

05:26:12 kakobrekla: and you keep saying it does not make sense

05:26:23 kakobrekla: the only thing that does not make sense is what you are saying.

05:27:22 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: observe the 'dollar' gold coin, is bought and sold for > 1 $ , and about 20 % more than its metal worth. is all.

05:27:41 asciilifeform: 0 ideological component to this, you can find the prices yourself.

05:29:02 kakobrekla: yes, and here its the opposite.

05:29:27 kakobrekla: when this happens, people melt the coins to sell for scrap metal.

05:29:43 asciilifeform: this did happen here in usa, not so long ago

05:29:54 kakobrekla: bingo

05:29:55 asciilifeform: 1970s, iirc, copper 1cent coin.

05:30:06 asciilifeform: was switched, to zinc.

05:59:01 kakobrekla: for all the slavery entusiasts, perhaps vitalik is the final solution for you; https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/61tpul/how_does_the_ethereum_community_feel_that_it_can/?st=J0SQC0LX&sh=6c0106ea

05:59:03 assbot: How does the Ethereum community feel that it can overcome/is overcoming the governance problem that is killing Bitcoin? : ethereum ... ( http://bit.ly/2mL50Nn )

05:59:04 kakobrekla: hehe

06:51:05 kakobrekla: https://archive.fo/zpHrm

08:36:13 punkman: lol bitcoin classic will hard fork

08:36:43 punkman: do they even have any miners?

08:37:32 kakobrekla: its merged mined

08:37:42 kakobrekla: or something

08:42:28 punkman: https://coin.dance/blocks unlimited 37% - segwit 30% - 8mb(classic?) 5%

08:42:31 assbot: Coin Dance | Bitcoin Block Details ... ( http://bit.ly/2ewok7M )

08:43:37 pankkake: so we should be able to sell our btc classic for btc? interesting

08:56:36 punkman: might also be good for trolling people. "Hey I just sent you 100bitcoins!" "omaigawd ty ty ty. wait what is classic"

09:07:53 kakobrekla: cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail

09:07:53 kakobrekla: 0

09:07:57 kakobrekla: so cool.

09:08:04 kakobrekla: (not a virtual machine!)

09:09:07 punkman: kakobrekla: which distro

09:09:33 kakobrekla: its more complicated than that.

09:15:10 pankkake: that's because you didn't buy asciilifeform's thinghy!

09:15:49 pankkake: also, when it goes to 0 so much stuff starts to break, the times it happened it took me some time to figure out that was what's wrong

09:16:09 pankkake: http://www.issihosts.com/haveged/ otherwise

09:16:11 assbot: haveged - a simple entropy daemon ... ( http://bit.ly/2npQdVf )

09:16:42 kakobrekla: i dont have physical access to that particular machine

09:17:05 kakobrekla: but looking into it

09:17:17 kakobrekla: so far it seems to be some sw issue, how deep it goes i dunno yet

09:22:13 pankkake: one program can easily drain the entropy

09:22:44 pankkake: I wrote a thing that would use just a bit, but when running the unit tests… oops!

09:23:55 punkman: haven't half the distros moved to prng for both dev/random and dev/urandom

15:08:06 punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-uxQO9uAI

15:08:07 assbot: The Fore Thoughts - Boatman's Cry (Pakistan 1967) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/2nreQB7 )

15:19:41 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: out of curiosity, what kind of linux was that, with the dead /dev/random ..?

15:36:37 funkenstein_: Classic fork eh? These guys need to get schooled by KRS-One as to what classic is.

15:37:11 funkenstein_: the DJ Premiere video features 3.5 inch disks :)

15:37:30 funkenstein_: but seriously CLAM did it first, and looks to be having more fun with it

15:38:42 funkenstein_: ok so clams are PoS and not mergemined, but otherwise the same - including BTC blockchain before certain date as ownership of your alt

15:39:48 funkenstein_: a perhaps slightly more honest "Two groups of people" in the "bitcoin community in disarray" :

15:40:18 funkenstein_: 1) folks who think its all about them, only their software is bitcoin, they know what satoshi wanted

15:41:09 funkenstein_: 2) folks who are enjoying having a publicly issued currency alternative to the fiat empire of fraud

15:50:30 funkenstein_: " Those who want to turn Bitcoin into a settlement network: A limited blocksize, artificial fee market, getting as many transactions away from the blockchain as possible by using third party solutions such as the Lightning Network or other sidechain solutions."

15:51:23 funkenstein_: then later on - "we will limit to 8MB for now" .. "[fees still required for preventing DDOS]", "we will use third party solution provided by Bitfinex"

16:40:05 pankkake: I never bothered to claim my clams

16:40:19 pankkake: this sounds nice though, claim my clams

17:13:53 punkman: https://twitter.com/cnLedger/status/846500539839893504

17:13:54 assbot: cnLedger sur Twitter : "Why doesn't F2Pool pick a side? (Screenshot of QQ group discussion, shared by "coal miner" from 8btc forum) https://t.co/hIR7RjnLdW" ... ( http://bit.ly/2mMWayJ )

17:19:02 pankkake: cnLedger could almost make me sign up for twitter

17:22:42 punkman: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2017/03/13/gender-quotas-and-the-crisis-of-the-mediocre-man/

17:22:43 assbot: LSE Business Review – Gender quotas and the crisis of the mediocre man ... ( http://bit.ly/2mNauHh )

17:22:55 punkman: "A common criticism against gender quotas is that they are anathema to meritocratic principles. This research on Sweden shows that the opposite can be true: Quotas actually increased the competence of politicians by leading to the displacement of mediocre men whether as candidates or leaders. The results may also be relevant for judging gender quotas in business."

17:24:43 asciilifeform: if islamic shithole sweden is example of 'competence', gimme the incompetent any day of the week.

17:34:07 pankkake: funny that women need quotas when they are already the majority of voters

18:33:38 asciilifeform: in other news, http://www.mod6.net/fg/20170328_125153.jpg , http://www.mod6.net/fg/20170328_125346.jpg >> FUCKGOATS unit unboxing.

18:33:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/2nrRICe )

18:33:42 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/2nrPrHo )

18:35:16 asciilifeform: and, while on subj, wasn't kakobrekla making a clone ? did this happen ?

18:35:30 asciilifeform: ( theoretically he has everything that one'd need, to make it )

18:37:46 pankkake: I'm not sure how it differs from the available competitors

18:38:13 asciilifeform: pankkake: very good q! see product page, http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html

18:38:13 assbot: No Such lAbs ... ( http://bit.ly/2hgTthS )

18:38:26 pankkake: e.g. https://sc4.us/hsm/

18:38:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/29skdtc )

18:39:34 asciilifeform: pankkake: differs in exactly 1 way -- comes apart into auditable pieces.

18:41:36 pankkake: actually that was the one I wanted to link http://altusmetrum.org/ChaosKey/

18:41:38 assbot: index ... ( http://bit.ly/2nrQcjF )

18:41:39 asciilifeform: ( and, unlike the atmel-based idiocies, you don't need an electron microscope to audit. )

18:42:23 asciilifeform: lol, no shield, noisy usb power feeding right into noiser-still voltage multiplier.

18:42:41 asciilifeform: no separability of analogue and digital subsystems.

18:42:56 asciilifeform: if you're gonna use this, why not use intel's built-in rng.

18:42:59 pankkake: the advantage is that they both have shops with shopping carts imho

18:43:02 asciilifeform: at least it -- is fast.

18:43:11 asciilifeform: pankkake: so does intel!

18:43:19 pankkake: I'm too lazy to order the fuckgoatss despite being cheaper

18:43:58 asciilifeform: what's the hard part, out of curiosity ?

18:44:17 asciilifeform: it even has 'shopping cart'

18:44:28 pankkake: need to talk to human

18:44:32 asciilifeform: ( http://shop.nosuchlabs.com , if you missed the link )

18:44:33 assbot: No Such lAbs ... ( http://bit.ly/2nrWakK )

18:45:13 asciilifeform: not so much 'talk' as , pgp a postage addr ( neither asciilifeform nor mircea_popescu is a telepath, somehow gotta know where to post )

18:47:08 pankkake: Some Linux kernels contain a buggy driver which has problems handling more than two simultaneously connected USB2TTL cables of the type shipped with most FUCKGOATS units

18:47:14 pankkake: do recent kernels work?

18:47:20 asciilifeform: pankkake: they do.

18:47:40 asciilifeform: (some older ones, need the workaround described)

18:48:09 asciilifeform: it is wholly a problem with the commonplace ttl cables, rather than with FG

18:49:21 asciilifeform: there is no onboard usb anything. straight serial. idea being, you can use your own ttl cable, that you picked up in a random shop, rather than give nsa one more thing to profitably sabotage when package is en route.

18:50:04 asciilifeform: ttl cable is included simply so user can test the device 'out of the box'.

18:52:53 pankkake: also I suppose it could be used with rngd?

18:52:59 asciilifeform: it could.

18:53:12 asciilifeform: all it does is give a straight 8bit stream of rng.

18:53:28 asciilifeform: ~7kByte/s. typically at room temperature.

18:53:56 pankkake: what if I put it in my butt?

18:54:01 asciilifeform: if you want to know precisely how, read the schematic and cpld src, they are posted.

18:54:18 asciilifeform: pankkake: i recommend external use only!111 edges are sharp.

18:58:06 punkman: asciilifeform: did you by any chance test the usb dongle jtag bitbang thingy?

18:58:18 asciilifeform: which one, punkman ?

18:58:21 asciilifeform: i have a number of'em

18:58:51 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-01-2017#1464963

18:58:51 assbot: Logged on 05-01-2017 07:02:42; punkman: http://www.clifford.at/libxsvf/ can bitbang jtag with the usb2serial dongle

18:59:24 asciilifeform: how do you jtag with 1rx and 1tx pin ?!

18:59:39 asciilifeform: even supposing you could reprogram the thing to throw arbitrary signals.

19:02:18 punkman: oic I misread the ftdi part number, though it was for serial dongle

19:02:40 asciilifeform: punkman: most of the ftdi chips come with a handful of bitbang pins, aha

19:02:59 asciilifeform: this is used, for instance, in 'busblaster' (i am quite fond of it) to let you reprogram the cpld without external wires

19:09:31 punkman: but yeah 2 pins, duh

19:09:54 asciilifeform: punkman: in all fairness it is not difficult to get hold of a jtag plug.

19:10:03 punkman: I have a bus pirate

19:10:08 asciilifeform: ^ works

19:10:20 asciilifeform: even ye olde parallel port thing that xilinx used to include with books, works.

19:10:23 punkman: just thought doing it with common usbserial dongle would be cool

19:11:37 pankkake: is the fuckgoats price fixed in btc, and if so why?

19:11:47 punkman: it went up once didn't it

19:11:48 pankkake: or maybe you adjust it every time you buy the raw materials

19:11:58 asciilifeform: pankkake: it isn't set in stone, no.

19:12:09 asciilifeform: and yes it is priced in btc, you can see that with the naked eye.

19:12:47 pankkake: it could be updated depending on btc/usd price, that's what I meant

19:13:17 asciilifeform: pankkake: if exchange rates move wildly in either direction, price will change, sure.

19:13:38 asciilifeform: ( just like of every other physical object sold for btc )

19:13:42 pankkake: ok, that was my curiousity

19:14:05 asciilifeform: they aren't made on a distant planet where all commerce takes place in btc, no.

19:37:45 pankkake: yet another question: would it be a bad idea to put a fuckgoats inside my (thick aluminum) pc case?

20:12:28 asciilifeform: can't think of any reason why not

20:14:32 pankkake: cool

20:42:00 kakobrekla: https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/620clj/iconomi_introduces_repayment_programme/

20:42:01 assbot: ICONOMI introduces Repayment Programme : ICONOMI ... ( http://bit.ly/2nrVtba )

20:42:12 kakobrekla: when reality is too real, create a paralell one and operate within

20:42:16 kakobrekla: familiar?

22:54:09 punkman: what's an iconomi