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Transcript for 29-03-2016, 743 lines:

00:00:36 kakobrekla: strangely i find this less perverse than the case where you need to pretend x

00:01:05 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: well, you were not simply asked 'pretend', but to do - i.e. sign the bbet statement

00:01:19 kakobrekla: i was asked

00:01:53 kakobrekla: to pretend that the shit served is not shit

00:01:58 kakobrekla: and eat it.

00:02:23 kakobrekla: i would have possibly eaten it if it wasnt for the pretend part.

00:16:01 nubbins`: asciilifeform what's the connection between red-pilling bitcoin and slipping a fraud on the company's books?

00:16:19 asciilifeform: nubbins`: what means 'red pilling' ?

00:16:39 nubbins`: "the matrix" thing adopted by MRA derps

00:16:55 nubbins`: the veil is pulled aside, etc

00:17:49 nubbins`: ;;ud red piller

00:17:50 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=the+red+pill | Red Pill men are aware that women are strongly influenced by the culture and that their attraction cues are often outside of their conscious awareness.

00:17:59 nubbins`: ?

00:18:00 nubbins`: right

00:18:10 asciilifeform: ah this

00:18:14 asciilifeform: not sure i see the connection ?

00:18:21 nubbins`: well yes, nor i

00:18:33 nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> the kind where you gotta kill and eat a stranger, and the like.

00:19:04 asciilifeform: nubbins`: hypothesis was that mircea_popescu wanted to see who would obey unquestioned

00:19:23 nubbins`: who the true derps are, iow

00:19:29 nubbins`: jim jones style

00:19:36 nubbins`: !up Alopex

00:20:06 nubbins`: follow him into the desert, here, exchange your btc for these new mpbtc, &c

00:20:56 nubbins`: yeah, i buy it

00:21:40 nubbins`: people like mp generally do a large-scale trawl & then whittle it down over time

00:22:09 nubbins`: #t-a, or w/e, is just a little bit smaller and a bit more detached from reality than #b-a

00:22:15 kakobrekla: i remained unconvinced about this 'who would obey' hypothesis currently. just like various explanations 'fit' the double payment incident, many interpretations work here.

00:22:22 nubbins`: which again was a smaller, weirder #-otc or wherever mp came from

00:22:47 kakobrekla: remain*

00:22:56 nubbins`: but i do think this is just a nice side effect, taking advantage of timing i guess, and bumbling over mistakes like kako says was the true instigator

00:24:55 kakobrekla: i can also see how the reactor test is a more romantic interpretation.

00:25:30 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: my premise is that mircea_popescu is a clever fella.

00:25:42 asciilifeform: i know this with some certainty.

00:28:15 kakobrekla: he apologized to me in a pm for not talking to me before going on to send a second tx and cooking the mess. this doesnt really fit.

00:28:41 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this still leaves reactor #2

00:28:58 kakobrekla: you cant have 2 without 1

00:29:03 asciilifeform: why not ?

00:29:10 kakobrekla: what am i missing ?

00:29:58 nubbins`: !up optimator999

00:30:11 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: his post re: shakespeare & kings is a hint

00:30:20 asciilifeform: and the speech re: loyalty

00:31:04 asciilifeform: sorta how napoleon, famously, 'soldiers! i need your lives! and you will give them to me!' [cheering]

00:32:54 nubbins`: http://employees.oneonta.edu/downinll/mass_suicide.htm

00:32:56 assbot: "Suicide Tape Transcript" ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBZSg3 )

00:33:30 asciilifeform: nubbins`: jonestown is poor example, i credit the 'cia murder' hypothesis

00:33:55 asciilifeform: (the investigation was quashed, 9/11 style, and we have soviet documents showing that jones et al accepted sov citizenship prior to 'suiciding')

00:34:47 kakobrekla: asciilifeform yes, very romantic.

00:35:58 kakobrekla: also relevant http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2016#1440097

00:35:58 assbot: Logged on 24-03-2016 15:50:57; asciilifeform: but, i will point out, they also had 'my commander is an arse'-seppuku.

00:36:11 kakobrekla: and as soon as that was mentioned, we are opening way too many casks.

00:39:13 kakobrekla: and as far as giving life, i would, to an idea, not a man.

00:39:26 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: problem is,

00:39:31 asciilifeform: ideas don't walk around on their own.

00:39:33 asciilifeform: they live in men.

00:39:44 kakobrekla: bitcoin lives in men?

00:39:50 asciilifeform: yes.

00:40:00 asciilifeform: last i checked, it wasn't operating itself.

00:40:23 kakobrekla: last i checked it was, it was men who use it.

00:40:42 asciilifeform: and write it, and break it, and believe in it.

00:41:23 asciilifeform: nobody dies 'for idea'. but for idea ~as carried by comrades~

00:41:33 kakobrekla: the idea of a round circle also does not exist without men?

00:41:49 asciilifeform: might exist, but nobody dies for platonic form.

00:42:01 asciilifeform: then again who am i to tell kakobrekla what to seppuku for!111

00:42:17 kakobrekla: we are chatting, feel free to tell.

00:43:32 asciilifeform: idea ~lives~ only in so much as it is in people.

00:44:17 kakobrekla: in my view mp no longer represents the b-a idea as it was. (see: out of spec)

00:44:27 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: aha, i saw.

00:44:36 asciilifeform: which is why i asked 'who does'

00:45:27 kakobrekla: and im saying the who is not relevant - for me at least.

00:46:35 kakobrekla: but some people need 'god' and 'religion' in their lives to function i gather

00:46:48 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: but there has to ~be~ 'a who'

00:47:03 kakobrekla: like it has to be a satoshi?

00:47:13 asciilifeform: not necessarily == 1 who

00:47:16 asciilifeform: but ~somebody~

00:48:00 kakobrekla: for what? the idea of a circle to keep existing? for me to draw it? for what?

00:48:41 asciilifeform: for anyone to know what the idea is.

00:48:47 asciilifeform: to draw the circle. either, if you like.

00:50:15 phf: asciilifeform: oh look it's procian vs edharian debate :p

00:50:21 asciilifeform: aha!11

00:52:17 phf: megabook, i had a lul in my reading, so decided to reread it past three days

00:52:33 *: asciilifeform reread 4x to date

00:52:37 kakobrekla: i dont see it as it is now. socialisim did not die with tito here.

00:52:39 asciilifeform: once in the (terrible) ru trans, even

00:52:58 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: nah but zeus died with the last believer.

00:53:15 kakobrekla: as he should and it took long enough.

00:53:33 asciilifeform: i'd rather that circles (and sound money) did not die tho.

00:54:00 kakobrekla: when all men are dead bacteria will draw circles.

00:54:26 asciilifeform: and sound money!11

00:54:54 asciilifeform: at any rate i don't build for heat death.

00:54:56 asciilifeform: though it cometh.

00:55:46 kakobrekla: hm

00:56:12 kakobrekla: lets try this from another angle: who needs to perish for the idea of a circle no longer to exist

00:56:39 asciilifeform: if 'idea of a circle' includes items such as, e.g., euler's identity...

00:56:48 asciilifeform: then surprisingly few people.

00:57:13 kakobrekla: no, keep it simple.

00:57:35 asciilifeform: anyway i'm a diehard platonist re the 'idea of circle'

00:58:16 asciilifeform: the dilemma as i see it was not 'circle or no cicle' but 'where is the circle being drawn, rather than merely dreamed of'

00:59:48 kakobrekla: afaik most of the trb work was done by you. you are in fact capable of drawing a circle by yourself.

01:00:06 asciilifeform: sure, but without a mircea_popescu, it would be like my os work

01:00:11 asciilifeform: existing nowhere but my hdd

01:00:23 asciilifeform: and scarcely even there, because it competes for motivation with beer.

01:00:49 asciilifeform: and, much as i hate to jump to the end of a thread, i will say: i will personally be delighted if it turns out that kakobrekla can successfully assume the role of a backup mircea_popescu. and this ~includes~ wielding the death ray on the scum that wish to devour all things good and bright, for instance.

01:00:51 kakobrekla: so the problem isnt really 'idea' at all, but a motivator

01:01:14 asciilifeform: for one thing, having a planet with == 1 mircea_popescu is pretty risky.

01:01:18 asciilifeform: what if meteor hits him.

01:01:49 asciilifeform: if kakobrekla can keep #b-a alive as a habitable place, i for one will take off my hat.

01:01:52 asciilifeform: it is a valuable thing.

01:02:17 kakobrekla: there may not be enough of those for 2 villages

01:02:29 kakobrekla: and kids take 9months at least

01:03:03 kakobrekla: secondly its rather likely i do not share o

01:03:11 kakobrekla: all of the mp ideals

01:03:14 asciilifeform: imho it is worth a try.

01:03:26 asciilifeform: and schism will cleanly resolve when gossipd, at any rate

01:04:11 asciilifeform: (it will crystallize into essentially one massive chan where folks who want to hear kakobrekla, connect to, e.g., my node, vs mp's, but otherwise same convos)

01:04:31 phf: asciilifeform: i'm not fully groking the mechanism of resolution

01:04:53 phf: seems like you're basically just going to have a channel with a bunch of people on ignore, selectively

01:04:57 asciilifeform: phf: gossipd, if you recall, is made of relays, which selectively agglomerate packets into time quanta

01:05:10 asciilifeform: and yes, it is roughly equivalent from the operator's pov from 'chan with lots of ignores'

01:05:24 asciilifeform: the win is that there is not a centralized box

01:05:33 asciilifeform: (same reason why bitcoin and not visa)

01:05:34 phf: which will bring us back to the original "nubbins try to get mp's attention" situation

01:05:57 phf: right, so gossipd solves a problem, just not the problem we're facing

01:06:02 asciilifeform: phf: mp would respond by refusing to peer with folks who nubbinsate

01:06:13 phf: and taken to logical extreme?

01:06:27 asciilifeform: phf: picture people talking, in a large room

01:06:39 phf: mp-gossip-net, kako-gossip-net

01:06:41 asciilifeform: they can stand in such a way that all can hear all (if they take turns on microphone, say)

01:06:45 asciilifeform: or in arbitrary subgroups.

01:06:45 asciilifeform: aha.

01:07:19 asciilifeform: folks in ENTIRELY separate mental worlds belong on entirely separate nets.

01:07:23 asciilifeform: but imho we aren't there yet.

01:07:33 phf: which is technically current situation. i guess my point is that gossip was designed with assumption of strong core, weak periphery

01:07:49 asciilifeform: gossipd model works with whatever topology.

01:08:09 asciilifeform: it simply isn't equivalent to the centalized 'room' we're accustomed to, and that is something folks will have to make their peace with

01:08:17 asciilifeform: just as bitcoin is not simply a mechanised visa

01:08:28 asciilifeform: but has sharp edges of its own

01:09:37 phf: asciilifeform: i understand gossip mechanism, i mostly built one. i observed a thing that happened here that will have a direct, equally disruptive beahvior on a gossip net

01:09:41 kakobrekla: asciilifeform re earlier thread : have i correctly distilled this if i say you need someone to keep selling you your own dreams day after day?

01:10:09 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: only the part of the dream where it has any chance of mattering in reality.

01:10:17 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: fact is, i have no money and no access to capital

01:10:33 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: and ZERO inclination to suck the fiat cock that ~might~ secure lottery ticket.

01:11:28 asciilifeform: phf: which thing ?

01:11:51 asciilifeform: phf: my main annoyance re: the schism is that i have to manually relay things from planet to planet

01:11:56 asciilifeform: and in gossipd i would not have to

01:12:01 asciilifeform: machine will do it smoothly by itself.

01:12:12 asciilifeform: and ditto elsewhere.

01:12:38 phf: and the same thing that happened here will happen in gossip. conversation fragmentation through selective "ignore" i.e. parts of conversation are seen parts are not, followed by a complete break of network into two

01:12:47 kakobrekla: asciilifeform i see. sorry to hear that.

01:13:11 asciilifeform: phf: this is a fact of life

01:13:17 asciilifeform: see the example re: people standing in a room

01:13:32 asciilifeform: it is not given to have 'borg collective' where all conversations happen 'for everyone'

01:14:33 asciilifeform: phf: the idea is to have something like the radio spectrum.

01:14:37 phf: asciilifeform: at this point any person who wants to participate in two conversations will have to connect to two nets, since a conversation you're having here, if auto translated to #fraudsters on account of your mp affinity, will make no sense, until you're blocked from one or another

01:14:44 asciilifeform: where folks can talk, and who wants to hear - 'tunes in.'

01:15:16 asciilifeform: phf: correct.

01:15:39 phf: well, then we're back to what i said originally

01:15:45 asciilifeform: in that sense yes.

01:15:52 kakobrekla: asciilifeform, see i do not believe that story any more. too many things were said over the many years adding up to no result of effect.

01:15:58 asciilifeform: if speaking to both groups, will have to transmit explicitly.

01:16:06 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: which

01:16:26 asciilifeform: phf: sorta how usenet cross-posting worked

01:16:58 phf: ah that's a hypothetical gossipd behavior not in mp's spec

01:17:08 asciilifeform: phf: i operate from my spec.

01:17:26 asciilifeform: his did not imho add up to a workable scheme

01:17:32 asciilifeform: (as i patiently explained in the mega-thread)

01:17:47 phf: which part was broken? or relevant thread

01:18:15 asciilifeform: phf: http://fraudsters.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc << a good chunk of it reproduced in the commentz

01:18:16 assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwCnaz )

01:18:25 asciilifeform: but not all of it.

01:18:39 asciilifeform: i don't even recall whether i ever fully described my scheme in public.

01:18:48 phf: well, that's pretty useless :) ofc i know where comments at, but there's 10k of them

01:18:53 asciilifeform: when mircea_popescu handed the project off to the rando derp, i mostly went dark re subj.

01:21:12 phf: pretty sure artifexd left after your gave him that "no go" thrashing!

01:21:20 asciilifeform: possibly.

01:21:55 asciilifeform: and mp gave me same treatment re: 'g' ('fuck off until you get a block cipher, do NOT release with aes')

01:22:01 asciilifeform: and imho it is fair.

01:22:07 asciilifeform: idiot compromises get cemented in.

01:22:09 asciilifeform: like bitcoin.

01:24:49 phf: tru

01:26:25 kakobrekla: in which case we would still not have it (bitcoin)

01:26:52 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: bitcoin was quite arguably a premature child as it was.

01:27:02 asciilifeform: but picture if it had come out with, e.g, 512-bit rsa.

01:27:12 asciilifeform: would have been enough, quite possible, to PERMANENTLY discredit the idea.

01:28:09 asciilifeform: sorta how dirigibles, incidentally, died.

01:28:19 asciilifeform: this is what i meant by 'ideas need people'

01:28:29 asciilifeform: they need people willing to ~risk~ on them.

01:29:21 kakobrekla: vc risk on people

01:29:27 asciilifeform: l0000l

01:29:34 asciilifeform: american vs 'risks' nothing.

01:29:38 asciilifeform: risks printolade.

01:29:47 asciilifeform: *vc

01:30:14 mike_c: kakobrekla:for what? the idea of a circle to keep existing? << thing is, the idea of a circle is well and good and all

01:30:19 mike_c: and then you draw one

01:30:23 mike_c: and it's not quite a circle.

01:30:27 asciilifeform: mike_c: see log

01:30:33 asciilifeform: pretty much the last hour's thread.

01:30:48 nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> which is why i asked 'who does' << what man represents an ideal, i say of you!

01:30:58 mike_c: oh yeah :)

01:31:02 asciilifeform: nubbins`: nowhere i said 'one man'

01:32:03 kakobrekla: anyway, the point was, whatever little doesnt matter, vc risk on people, they dont risk so much on ideas.

01:32:13 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: not so.

01:32:15 kakobrekla: people change, ideas not (or else there are other ideas)

01:32:21 asciilifeform: because failure is perma-associated with PEOPLE

01:32:25 asciilifeform: who did the failing.

01:32:50 kakobrekla: i will not fixate to a certain people.

01:32:58 asciilifeform: you - no, others - yes.

01:33:12 asciilifeform: and to some extent whole idea of wot is to, yes, permanently tar people who fail.

01:34:51 phf: asciilifeform: it's a set expression vc bulshyt "we invest in people not ideas"

01:35:17 asciilifeform: phf: it isn't a lie though, it is difficult, last i checked, to hand a bag of printola to a platonic circle.

01:35:23 kakobrekla: if anyone of my heroes start talking nonsense tomorrow it will no longer be my hero.

01:35:29 asciilifeform: sure.

01:35:56 kakobrekla: hence not fixed to people but ideas.

01:36:02 asciilifeform: i can see this.

01:36:08 mike_c: the measure is (pros + cons), not lack of any cons

01:36:16 mike_c: in my measure anyway

01:36:18 asciilifeform: but i must point out that kakobrekla has the luxury of not having to work for a living.

01:36:27 kakobrekla: how is that relevant ?!

01:36:52 asciilifeform: it is relevant because kakobrekla's life has meaning even if no one agrees with him.

01:36:56 asciilifeform: he can write for archaeologists.

01:37:42 kakobrekla: ferfuxake. i lived in a barrel. freedom has its costs. and it was worth it.

01:37:59 nubbins`: ^

01:38:31 asciilifeform: wake me up when they're handing out free passports in the countries of kakobrekla and nubbins` , where health isn't $800/mo

01:38:31 nubbins`: i smile every day, all day long

01:38:46 kakobrekla: nubbins` you dont count you are high.

01:39:00 nubbins`: kakobrekla i wake up smiling!

01:39:01 nubbins`: 8)

01:39:16 kakobrekla: ate cookies before bed?

01:39:18 phf: there are pursuits past freedom

01:39:22 nubbins`: heh

01:39:30 nubbins`: asciilifeform not even i get a free passport

01:39:47 nubbins`: free ISBNs, tho

01:39:50 asciilifeform: nubbins`: you know what i spoke of tho.

01:40:01 nubbins`: and you i, and here we sit

01:40:06 nubbins`: impossibly chasmed

01:40:33 kakobrekla: asciilifeform i understand that coming out of the system is harder than staying out in the first place. but this 'your life has meaning' because of it is nonsense.

01:40:44 kakobrekla: it also has very little to do with ideas.

01:40:53 phf: if we were only talking about freedom, go be crust punk or gypster ors

01:40:54 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: before i came here, i was stuck having the ideas into a notebook.

01:40:58 asciilifeform: like da vinci et al.

01:41:07 asciilifeform: with NO possibility of physically happening them.

01:41:18 asciilifeform: and phf has it.

01:41:31 asciilifeform: my notion of freedom includes four walls, climate control, quiet, and roquefort.

01:41:37 kakobrekla: asciilifeform and now mp gave you ??? to make them manifest?

01:41:44 asciilifeform: it also includes 24/h/d of free time. which i dun have.

01:42:01 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: nope. but he offers at least a theoretical framework where such a thing can happen.

01:42:08 nubbins`: kakobrekla enough dribbles to keep him around, not enough to make anything within a feasible timeframe?

01:43:42 kakobrekla: and this theoretical framework is somehow tangible and not an idea?

01:43:57 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yes. because there are actual people attached.

01:44:02 asciilifeform: the kind who make things happen.

01:44:26 kakobrekla: like what?

01:45:02 asciilifeform: like, e.g., s.mg.

01:45:22 asciilifeform: (i still have nfi what it needed the megatonne of coin for - but there it is)

01:45:30 nubbins`: who was giving me sauce for wondering aloud if my stock warrant was still redeemable?

01:46:09 nubbins`: asciilifeform ever meet a "big holder" of s.mg?

01:46:20 kakobrekla: in fact he did, thats beside the point.

01:46:25 nubbins`: heh

01:46:36 nubbins`: too true, hey

01:46:50 asciilifeform: sure did.

01:46:58 kakobrekla: i fail so see the importance of s.mg here.

01:47:00 asciilifeform: nubbins` would have liked chetty.

01:47:38 nubbins`: perhaps in another life

01:48:59 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: example of 'making things happen'

01:49:09 asciilifeform: that is, 1000s of btc in one pot, and without usgtronics.

01:49:19 mike_c: more importantly, a real game

01:49:21 asciilifeform: there is EXACTLY one fella who ever achieved this.

01:49:25 mike_c: that is pretty cool

01:49:31 asciilifeform: aha, real game.

01:49:38 asciilifeform: tho to be fair i never played.

01:49:43 asciilifeform: (i don't even own a box that will run it)

01:50:06 phf: i think maybe asciilifeform is saying that there's galvanization of effort that happens around a good idea and someone passionate to verbalize it, without such galvanization things don't quite happen. there's plenty of talk or thinking, but things are not directed, there's a lot of hangerons, wreckers, soon the effort is bogged down in infighting ors

01:50:14 mike_c: and you both made bitbet happen, which was almost the best bitcoin company ever

01:50:19 asciilifeform: and not just ANY galvanization, phf

01:50:24 asciilifeform: ~specifically~ in opposition to hitler

01:50:28 asciilifeform: as, e.g., ghaddafi was.

01:50:39 asciilifeform: mp is the thinking man's ghaddafi.

01:50:47 asciilifeform: and i haven't got another to offer.

01:51:03 asciilifeform: wake me up if you find one.

01:53:49 mike_c: 1) best bitcoin asset exchange 2) best bitcoin game 3) best bitcoin betting platform 4) best bitcoin news site

01:54:08 mike_c: with some misses inbetween

01:54:08 kakobrekla: yeah im starting to see what you are saying. he makes some people do some stuff. not related to ideas or ideals though.

01:54:19 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: it is related to ~having a chance~

01:54:31 asciilifeform: i would not have picked up trb if it were not for mp

01:54:36 asciilifeform: because 'who will use this, and for what'

01:54:38 funkenstein_: howdy gents

01:54:54 asciilifeform: hi funkenstein_

01:55:22 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: one of the reasons i found mpb to be an irritant is that mp would not commit to actually risking his life on my parachute.

01:55:36 asciilifeform: but that was his prerogative.

01:56:30 kakobrekla: or allowing others to learn from his.

01:56:41 asciilifeform: well he did post that 1 line.

01:56:44 asciilifeform: but yeah.

01:57:03 kakobrekla: and of this i very much suspect why. you probably already know why i think it is so.

01:57:08 asciilifeform: when i asked him, he said,

01:57:09 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=09-01-2016#1364414

01:57:09 assbot: Logged on 09-01-2016 21:32:45; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and lo it came to pass that one man had sons, which he met because some women he knew introduced them. and those sons presently came upon him and said father, give us warhorses so we may be warriros, for you are a warrior yourself! and the man said better go and capture horses, for i am a warrior and i will soon die, and who'll give you warhorses then ?

01:57:30 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: he makes no secret that it is a heavily-patched 0.6

01:57:44 kakobrekla: yes i have the other explanation.

01:57:55 asciilifeform: it being ?

01:58:11 asciilifeform: that it is not an especially great 0.6 ?

01:58:17 asciilifeform: also mega-unsurprise

01:58:27 kakobrekla: that mpb had the existential problems.

01:59:06 asciilifeform: eh i'm convinced that his 0.6 ~exists~, damn near everybody had his own ver of the thing in those days

01:59:17 kakobrekla: "but it fits!!!!11"

01:59:42 asciilifeform: i probed his node, it behaves consistently with the description.

01:59:54 asciilifeform: (behaved, rather. it's been a while since mp had a public node)

02:01:26 kakobrekla: the time when i naively believed things is passe.

02:05:16 asciilifeform: whereas i never did.

02:05:25 *: asciilifeform believes in 'trust but verify.'

02:06:06 kakobrekla: how are you going to verify secret evidence from secret court?

02:06:21 asciilifeform: same way as when studying black hole.

02:06:24 asciilifeform: by the shape of the dark.

02:06:37 asciilifeform: sorta how i study usg.

02:06:53 asciilifeform: granted, the answer takes the shape of a hole.

02:07:03 asciilifeform: but is considerably more information than background static.

02:07:43 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i have the same issues with 'secret court' as you do, but i am satisfied that there ~is~ an mpb

02:08:06 asciilifeform: that, from what he's said to date, he of course did not ~personally~ write, the fella dun program

02:08:07 kakobrekla: and when black hole says "its unicorns and rainbows in here" ?

02:08:18 asciilifeform: but was crafted for him by folks he trusts in meatspace, perhaps from previous life.

02:08:57 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the way i read the 'seeekrit court' mpb situation, he has another set of people. who rank above us in re the magic court of mp.

02:09:01 asciilifeform: and they said x

02:09:11 asciilifeform: so when i 'not-x', he balks.

02:09:17 kakobrekla: i was thinking more of a chinese colusion

02:09:37 kakobrekla: but the story isnt much different i guess.

02:09:57 asciilifeform: well yes, his meat-b-a returned verdict of 'chinese collusion'

02:09:59 asciilifeform: and so it stands.

02:10:09 asciilifeform: (or should i say, meta-b-a)

02:10:22 asciilifeform: i can't fault a fella for having meat friendz.

02:10:38 asciilifeform: hell, i've asked him to introduce me to the hero who crafted mpb.

02:10:46 kakobrekla: actually meta-b-a exists or existed but it did not include mp or his friends.

02:10:48 asciilifeform: (the response - what you might expect.)

02:10:59 asciilifeform: waiwut

02:11:29 kakobrekla: yeah.

02:11:40 asciilifeform: if you're thinking of the grand council of sc4mz0rz, in what sense is it a b-a ?

02:12:14 kakobrekla: nope, no scamzors, just skeptics.

02:12:47 phf: it was kako behind mp all along, and the chinese diversion was to test who to filter from b-a to go to stage two of meta-b-a ascendance. fnord, nothing is true, everything is permitted.

02:12:59 asciilifeform: phf: l0l

02:13:18 mike_c: now you're getting into it kako :) sekrits and cryptic sayings!

02:13:27 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if you recall, the item that brought me into contact with mp was precisely a skeptic piece

02:13:51 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: but again, in what sense is the thing you're speaking of a 'meta-ba'

02:14:02 phf: pretty sure that was followed by "satoshi assets bitcoin nuke"

02:14:22 asciilifeform: phf: that was in the sequence, aha

02:14:48 kakobrekla: how it wasnt? it was a b-a about b-a.

02:14:51 asciilifeform: phf: mp (or rather, hanbot) wrote to me after my original post re: bitcoin, asked me to try out mpex

02:15:23 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if you, jurov, et al ran a parallel b-a without mp or i, more power to ya. consider posting logz, i bet they are grand.

02:16:02 asciilifeform: i promise i won't even cry if i figure as a muppet of mp in there, or whatnot.

02:16:34 asciilifeform: but such a thing is pointedly ~not~ what i meant by 'meta-ba'

02:16:37 kakobrekla: will consider, but i would say the gist got spilled over anyway. i guess mostly by me.

02:16:44 kakobrekla: mkay

02:16:52 asciilifeform: it would have to be an entity in the spirit of meta-nsa

02:17:13 asciilifeform: i.e., something next to which nsa is a sorry joke, in the shadow of its greatness

02:17:43 kakobrekla: yes i understand. i guess such thing is a wet dream prolly.

02:18:02 asciilifeform: and at any rate, nobody invited me to it.

02:18:10 asciilifeform: but folks ~did~ invite me to ordinary b-a.

02:18:12 kakobrekla: we cant even fill two villages with folks and you want it to go all meta.

02:18:16 asciilifeform: l0l

02:18:25 asciilifeform: this village feels pretty full

02:18:44 mike_c: there's 150 people in this room right now.

02:18:46 kakobrekla: idlers dont count.

02:18:50 mike_c: doh

02:18:53 asciilifeform: i wasn't speaking of the remoras.

02:19:02 kakobrekla: its like aws bitcoin nodes

02:19:05 kakobrekla: dont count!

02:19:09 asciilifeform: aha.

02:19:31 asciilifeform: but it would seem to me that kakobrekla's 'meta-ba of skeptics' is now here.

02:19:49 kakobrekla: i know some are sitting on both chairs.

02:19:49 mike_c: I think it's tough for anybody anywhere to fill two villages with people who will make a real contribution

02:20:15 kakobrekla: mike_c so when is btcalpha wot browser switching to the other wot?

02:20:28 mike_c: more to the point, when do I shut down the bitbet analyzer..

02:20:33 mike_c: another tool bites the dust

02:20:57 kakobrekla: idk, i guess you wait until the new owner? maybe its someone from here?

02:21:04 mike_c: even worse, I had grand plans for making bitbet better.

02:21:24 kakobrekla: but the wot thing i think is rather set in stone

02:21:57 kakobrekla: i can no longer be trusted to not mess with the ratings in db

02:22:04 mike_c: heh, why?

02:22:15 asciilifeform: as i understand, the wot is doomed to fork (again!) unless there is some sort of peace treaty

02:22:24 kakobrekla: ^^

02:22:51 asciilifeform: now, in the gossipd world, there is no longer a central wot

02:22:59 asciilifeform: and possibly mp is simply waiting for ~that~

02:22:59 kakobrekla: anyway assbot is not on #fraudsters and i dont imagine it will be invited there

02:23:05 asciilifeform: and doesn't much care how present-day wot works

02:23:13 asciilifeform: esp. now that it is no longer plugged into voice

02:23:15 asciilifeform: (on his planet)

02:23:24 mike_c: I have been recording a picture of the wot graph everyday for..

02:23:30 mike_c: probably almost a year now

02:23:33 phf: i like the idea of #t-a wot fork. worthwhile to shed all the people who don't really play the tmsr game

02:23:38 mike_c: I'll have to make a gif from it or something

02:23:51 phf: i don't mean those present here, but the whole -otc crowd

02:24:02 asciilifeform: phf: it'll presumably be a ~fork~, like the departure from gribble, vs a reset

02:24:11 asciilifeform: so the otc crowd prolly stays in

02:24:18 phf: well, that can be perhaps negotiated

02:24:20 asciilifeform: but i do not know for certain what mp will do

02:24:24 kakobrekla: phf start from scratch then - its only a handful of ratings that would need to be entered

02:24:25 asciilifeform: would have to ask him, not me.

02:24:48 kakobrekla: how many active people in both villages? 20 ?

02:24:54 kakobrekla: even less.

02:25:06 asciilifeform: my current understanding is that #fraudsters is, among other things, a practice run for mp running own gossip terminal

02:25:11 asciilifeform: i.e. it behaves like the latter.

02:25:21 asciilifeform: minus the relay part.

02:25:21 phf: other thing, there's an ongoing development of tmsr convention which is ~/.wot folder with nick.asc files in it, which perhaps can be leveraged into a decentralized wot by way of gossipd presumably

02:25:33 mike_c: currently 18 - 20

02:25:45 asciilifeform: phf: the .wot has NOTHING to do with kako's (or gribble's, or mp's) wot

02:25:53 asciilifeform: is simply a collection of arbitrary pgp keys

02:25:54 kakobrekla: i eyeballed it well then

02:26:06 asciilifeform: and is already decentralized

02:26:10 mike_c: how many do you need? with the right 20 people you can do damn near anything.

02:26:28 kakobrekla: mike_c apparently those people need beatings

02:26:31 phf: asciilifeform: kako's wot is definitely not decentralizez

02:26:32 kakobrekla: or some such

02:26:44 asciilifeform: phf: the wot ~in your copy of v~ is decentralized.

02:26:50 phf: ...

02:26:57 mike_c: friends fight. If bitbet were up, I would bet on "kako and mp are friends again by the end of the year"

02:27:02 asciilifeform: phf: this re: the '.wot folder' comment

02:27:13 kakobrekla: haha

02:27:27 kakobrekla: mike_c i must say i like your spirit

02:27:30 kakobrekla: however reality sucks.

02:27:51 mike_c: I have been through business breakups - where I cofounded with a friend. three actually!

02:27:55 phf: asciilifeform: i'm saying the way gossipd is specced and the .wot is defined there's no reason not to marry the two together

02:28:05 mike_c: It sucks, and I honestly feel bad for both of you

02:28:39 kakobrekla: he said i was fiatista, i said he was fiat compromised. i dont think we can be more insulting.

02:28:52 mike_c: hehe, yeah.

02:28:58 mike_c: friends know where the soft spots are

02:29:14 asciilifeform: phf: in the unofficial gossipd spec, there is no global wot, but instead you ask your peer nodes whether they have rated $publickey

02:29:39 phf: i.e. you keep your wot keys in ~/.wot, gossipd loads keys from there to talk, v loads keys from there to press. gossipd manages a list of rating/comments for those keys. all exchanges for, say, ephemeral gossip keys are verified using keys in ~/.wot

02:29:52 asciilifeform: i would not connect v and gossipd

02:29:55 asciilifeform: (or anything else)

02:29:58 phf: asciilifeform: it is same in official spec

02:30:01 asciilifeform: v wot is a ~very~ particular matter

02:30:08 asciilifeform: phf: aha

02:30:48 phf: it can be a choice perhaps to run v and gossipd against same folder, but the idea of format and convention seem sensible

02:30:57 asciilifeform: phf: my draft gossiptron doesn't presently use pgp-format keys at all ,even for perma-key

02:31:09 asciilifeform: (i decided not to drag in the shit-soup of rfc4880 compatibility)

02:31:13 asciilifeform: but otherwise similar.

02:31:29 phf: asciilifeform: that's tricky since we still have this whole gnupg fp as identity thing

02:31:32 asciilifeform: overall pgp format is a thing that needs to die

02:31:43 asciilifeform: with its idiot 100 page spec, hardbaked sha-1, and other atrocities

02:31:53 asciilifeform: phf: it will have to be subsumed.

02:32:06 asciilifeform: which is something i've been working on 'in my copious spare time' (tm) (r)

02:32:09 phf: so crypto state machine is to be released first?

02:32:26 asciilifeform: almost certainly.

02:32:43 asciilifeform: gpg is a turd.

02:32:44 phf: seems like a massive blocker since crypto code reliability, etc.

02:32:59 asciilifeform: phf: it is actually how i arrived at ada.

02:33:12 asciilifeform: (i don't actually give a sufficient fuck about bitcoin per se, to swallow ada)

02:33:20 asciilifeform: but crypto identity is another matter.

02:33:35 phf: gpg is ok, it's forced to work with dodgy spec, rfc is horrendous though

02:33:50 asciilifeform: bitcoin ~could~ potentially be rebuilt if there is a continuity cataclysm, identities - cannot.

02:34:07 asciilifeform: and gpg, with the sha-1 collisions that one can produce ON DEMAND for a few $10k, is NOT ok.

02:34:32 asciilifeform: i wonder if mircea_popescu understands that i can produce keys with HIS FP for the cost of a new lexus.

02:35:19 phf: there's not enough talent or direction here to produce an ada bitcoin, imho. even common lisp rewrite is a ~~1 year till beta of full time work

02:35:52 asciilifeform: i have pretty much whole thing in my head.

02:35:57 asciilifeform: but this is - obviously - not enough.

02:36:25 asciilifeform: because what i do ~not~ have is, > 1/2 hr / day to crap it out.

02:36:43 phf: pff, like you told me when i was hacking gossipd in lisp with intent of translating to c, "translation is 90% of effort", same applies to "in head"

02:37:03 kakobrekla: asciilifeform good news, if one village dies there will be less typing and more time for actual work

02:37:19 phf: once you start writing, there all these corners that come up, that are just pure drudge but have to be done to conform to koncencus

02:37:23 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: do you actually think that i speak when i 'could be doing actual work' ?

02:37:46 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: largely i do it at $labourcamp where there are constant interruptions, and actual paying crap, and the chance of doing anything USEFUL re tmsr is 0.

02:37:46 kakobrekla: sometimes i do :)

02:37:59 kakobrekla: aha

02:38:14 kakobrekla: you are there now?

02:38:29 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: not there, but dead tired from having been there, which is ~same thing.

02:38:39 asciilifeform: phf: to clarify, i was speaking re a hypothetical hardfork that doesn't need to bug-conform.

02:38:50 asciilifeform: a bug-compatible-to-trb - yes, would take 1000 years.

02:38:51 phf: ohoh

02:38:56 asciilifeform: i would not even contemplate it.

02:39:17 asciilifeform: in fact i explicitly declared the idea of bug-for-bug compat to trb, a nonstarter and an idiocy, long ago.

02:39:25 funkenstein_: another one for the anathem monks

02:39:44 phf: i dunno i guesstimated when working on my version that it's about 7 months to hit all major components to "creaking along" state

02:39:48 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: why reimplement the turd? we already HAVE the turd.

02:40:22 phf: will get a tmsr approved canonical btcd

02:40:39 funkenstein_: asciilifeform, any chance you would lead a centralized trb repo?

02:40:41 asciilifeform: in what sense would a bug-for-bug be an improvement over the original ?

02:40:50 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: what'd be the point of such a thing??

02:41:06 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: not to mention, mod6 et al have one already, it is in therealbitcoin.org

02:41:18 funkenstein_: no, that seems to be v-ified

02:41:28 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: if your question was 'git repo' - answer - not a chance in hell

02:42:03 funkenstein_: kinda what i expected :)

02:42:12 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: do you think i invented v as a party trick ?

02:42:22 asciilifeform: or because i actually believe that it is the correct way to develop.

02:42:56 phf: asciilifeform: it's easier to localize patterns of dysfunction in a lisp program, like for example separating glue from logic. of course since it's repl driven you get predictable stack trees and data that you can actually handle and inspect, which gives you a "all in one thread" or "parallel hotspots" options

02:43:23 asciilifeform: phf: aha. the ada folks take the opposite, very painful approach, of 'perfect components, perfectly specified'

02:43:40 asciilifeform: it is agony, but it also works, just not for exploratory will-of-the-wisp

02:43:46 asciilifeform: (which is why naggum partook in it)

02:43:57 phf: tool for job

02:43:58 asciilifeform: there are precisely TWO known sane approaches to programming a computer.

02:44:06 asciilifeform: max dynamism or max static.

02:44:12 asciilifeform: in-betweens are for the birdz.

02:44:42 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: i am still blown away by the question, did you think that because mircea_popescu made own chan, i would descend into powerranger idiocy ?

02:45:33 funkenstein_: "here's some patches I like" would be nice, that's all i'm sayin

02:45:40 asciilifeform: the only thing that's changed for asciilifeform is that he had to split a 21" lcd in two to fit 2 chans, and occasionally has to repeat himself

02:45:41 phf: right i mean even with little effort i can pick up block from disk, blocks that make antecedent, run verify on that, etc. all as repl steps. none of that "recompile and wait for thing to start 3 hours later" bullshit

02:45:54 asciilifeform: phf: aha

02:46:08 mike_c: t he had to split a 21" lcd in two to fit 2 chans, << seriously, I just lost some screen space.

02:46:29 asciilifeform: mike_c: i had separate panel for b-a since my 1st day there

02:46:52 asciilifeform: (previously it held scrolling server logs for a now-long-dead box)

02:48:44 asciilifeform: phf: i would have went with 'we must have commonlispcoin' and not ada abomination but i do not believe that it is appropriate for a bitcoinatron to cons.

02:48:51 asciilifeform: or to not run in 8megs.

02:49:34 asciilifeform: just as a 'boeing' does not cons.

02:49:53 asciilifeform: you can't actually have sane hard-realtime gc on a x86.

02:50:05 phf: if you're writing from scratch from a spec yes

02:50:23 asciilifeform: aha, ada sucks mightily for exporatory work.

02:50:26 asciilifeform: *exploratory

02:50:36 phf: in this case the point of common lisp port is to think through the whole thing

02:50:44 asciilifeform: yeah i get it.

02:51:42 asciilifeform: however in this case i fear that the divergence between the draft and the battlefield machine is too great to make the former a meaningful thing.

02:51:56 asciilifeform: consider, the timing, for instance, matters.

02:52:08 phf: also i like ada, i approve its bondage and submission nature. i've been looking for aweb/aweave that some mail postings claim is available

02:52:17 asciilifeform: and i'm not even convinced that 'a bitcoin' can be meaningfully tested outside of the battlefield at all.

02:52:25 asciilifeform: (consider the failure of testnet)

02:53:01 phf: well, right, it's totally a battlestation built during battle

02:53:22 asciilifeform: i suspect that this was not in fact avoidable.

02:53:52 phf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFGFCt-oHC0

02:53:53 assbot: Kelly's Heroes Oddball Shows off His Tanks - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGFfdB )

02:56:24 asciilifeform: l0l

03:48:18 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1441521 << to what is this a reference?

03:48:18 assbot: Logged on 29-03-2016 00:50:15; phf: asciilifeform: oh look it's procian vs edharian debate :p

03:48:32 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'anathem' (n. stephenson)

03:48:34 asciilifeform: ~the~ b00k

03:48:43 ben_vulpes: if the an--

03:49:13 ben_vulpes: if ye'd had thirty seconds of patience, asciilifeform, you could have had me with steel in m'guts.

03:49:24 asciilifeform: l0l

03:49:46 ben_vulpes: (ye'd had is unnecessary, yes)

03:49:55 kakobrekla: i think one of those two is regarded as 'idiots'

03:50:04 kakobrekla: im not familiar with the book though

03:50:14 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: mega-b00k

03:50:24 asciilifeform: prolly the only piece of 20th c. fiction by an american i recommend to anybody

03:50:29 kakobrekla: i assume i was being called the idiot.

03:50:36 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: actually not

03:50:52 phf: man in a foxhole i tell ya

03:51:06 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the edharians (roughly, platonists, to earthlings) are the heroes.

03:51:27 phf: and ascii was making a considerably non-edharian argument

03:52:01 kakobrekla: odd!

03:53:27 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1441680 << /me more than halfway to the latter

03:53:27 assbot: Logged on 29-03-2016 01:40:53; phf: if we were only talking about freedom, go be crust punk or gypster ors

03:56:36 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1441777 << ca 2012 i was dead convinced kakobrekla was mircea_popescu's secret sauce for more or less everything

03:56:36 assbot: Logged on 29-03-2016 02:12:47; phf: it was kako behind mp all along, and the chinese diversion was to test who to filter from b-a to go to stage two of meta-b-a ascendance. fnord, nothing is true, everything is permitted.

03:57:39 ben_vulpes: lo, i am no scout, barely worthy of wearing the shiny plastic suit.

04:06:29 kakobrekla: and now the pinata exploded and clowns fell out

04:08:39 *: asciilifeform bbl.

12:37:50 asciilifeform: industrial l0ltr0n1cs: http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/03/28/when-the-messenger-shoots-back/#comment-249 [ repeated, arsebot was down ]

12:37:52 assbot: When the Messenger Shoots Back in Ossasepia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pHpSBD )

12:45:36 PeterL: asciilifeform that sounds like nubbins` ?

12:46:04 asciilifeform: PeterL: nah

12:51:57 punkman: !t m s.mpoe

12:51:57 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00049198 / 0.00049224 / 0.00049273 (136850 shares, 67.36 BTC), 7D: 0.00042193 / 0.00048938 / 0.00050404 (783636 shares, 383.50 BTC), 30D: 0.00041707 / 0.00052863 / 0.00059897 (37634047 shares, 19,894.68 BTC)

12:54:16 funkenstein_: 03:50:24 asciilifeform: prolly the only piece of 20th c. fiction by an american i recommend to anybody <-- what is this nonsense

12:56:34 funkenstein_: !up thestringpuller

12:58:31 PeterL: asciilifeform has a low opinion of American authors, is this news to you?

12:58:38 funkenstein_: that "freedom is four walls" thing was kinda lulzy :)

12:58:45 funkenstein_: i'm sure he'd recommend others

12:58:50 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1441694 << Meh. Very reminiscient of Eve: grind-fest.

12:58:57 funkenstein_: more Stephenson at least? lol

12:59:46 thestringpuller: Maybe combat will be developed by 2020. Dunno why the megatonne of btc tho.

13:00:40 phf: funkenstein_: are you familiar with a concept of hyperbole?

13:11:37 kakobrekla: re industrial loltronics - the king complex seems to be rather strong - and you cant play king if you dont have the topmost authority - which he noticed he didnt here.

13:12:32 thestringpuller: so a monarchy now?

13:12:49 thestringpuller: republic == monarchy ???

13:14:31 PeterL: mp reaslized he could not have a monarchy here, so he left to start a monarchy elsewhere

13:15:13 thestringpuller: my question is when was it ever "intended" to be a monarchy rather than republic of professionals?

13:15:52 PeterL: depends who you ask, right? everybody could have their own intentions

13:16:46 PeterL: and since when are we going by intentions? what counts is what you do, not what you intended to do

13:23:48 punkman: http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/27/11312960/speeding-ticket-malware-scam-email-pennsylvania cute

13:23:49 assbot: Malware scam appears to use GPS data to catch speeding Pennsylvania drivers | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/22KFYwq )

13:24:05 fluffypony: I only come here to worship at the House of Kakobrekla

13:26:17 PeterL: I suppose now would be a good time to revive my scoopbot

13:27:31 kakobrekla: can it actually remain online?

13:27:59 PeterL: donnu, I think It might need a bit of cleaning before I run it again

13:30:26 kakobrekla: give it a try then, theres little or no downside

13:31:09 PeterL: now I just have to find where I left it ...

13:32:22 nubbins`: <+PeterL> asciilifeform that sounds like nubbins` ? << what's with you folks

13:32:35 nubbins`: the comments are where thought goes to die

13:33:02 *: nubbins` doesn't think people realize how little time nubs` generally spends using a computer

13:33:09 PeterL: I dunno, it seemed to use some of the same phraseology you emmmlpoyed when chastizing MP

13:33:25 PeterL: just a wild guess

13:34:38 nubbins`: this place is pretty heavy on reuse of phrases & idioms, if you haven't noticed

13:35:29 nubbins`: tbh after reading it, looks like machine-generated babble

13:35:55 PeterL: maybe that is what you look like to other people?

13:36:10 *: PeterL ducks

13:42:06 nubbins`: says more about the other people 8)

13:44:06 fluffypony: well obviously nubbins` is a bot

13:44:11 nubbins`: anyway, you gotta badger scammers, it's the only way to wear em down

13:44:14 nubbins`: see woodcollector

13:44:24 fluffypony: it's an advanced silk-screening bot that has gained sentience

13:44:51 nubbins`: yes

13:44:53 fluffypony: originally designed for large-scale silk screening factories, it not spends its time printing t-shirts, posting on Bitcointalk, and chatting on IRC

13:45:36 nubbins`: see also http://imgur.com/vyg1lVc

13:45:37 assbot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/22KKCug )

13:46:41 fluffypony: argh, stupid Emirates is blocking imgur

15:46:19 joecool: !up aegis

16:00:40 nubbins`: !up Kushedout

16:02:08 punkman: https://mastermind.atavist.com/he-always-had-a-dark-side

16:02:09 assbot: He Always Had a Dark Side ... ( http://bit.ly/25upg32 )

16:04:35 asciilifeform: l0l commercial crypto snakeoil

16:04:48 punkman: (about the guy that wrote Truecrypt)

16:05:55 asciilifeform: waiwut

16:05:58 asciilifeform: not another satoshijob

16:06:08 punkman: seems credible

16:07:33 asciilifeform: credible how ?

16:07:35 asciilifeform: i see no proof

16:07:38 asciilifeform: esp re the last paragraph

16:10:30 punkman: https://mastermind.atavist.com/ whole series of articles, pictures, etc

16:10:32 assbot: The Mastermind — Atavist ... ( http://bit.ly/1pHU0wP )

16:11:26 asciilifeform: ends with the part 3 thing

16:11:38 asciilifeform: where there is a 'he spilled it all to usg' and 'wrote truecrypt' but no proof

16:11:43 asciilifeform: where is the motherfucking proof.

16:12:12 asciilifeform: this is BELOW the nooseweak standard of journalism. at least ~they~ had the 'they're both named satoshi' thing.

16:12:19 asciilifeform: here i only see naked claim.

16:12:38 punkman: it hedges the claim mid article

16:12:51 asciilifeform: quote?

16:14:08 punkman: "Hafner and his SecurStar colleagues suspected that Le Roux was part of the TrueCrypt collective but couldn’t prove it. Indeed, even today the question of who launched the software remains unanswered."

16:14:29 asciilifeform: so then.

16:14:31 punkman: he was definitely involved in some of its ancestors at least

16:14:49 asciilifeform: 'scramdisk', endlessly spammed on usenet, is 'ancestors' ??

16:15:05 asciilifeform: in the same sense that piltdown man is ancestor of lucy ?

18:49:52 danielpbarron: !rated kakobrekla

18:49:52 assbot: You rated user kakobrekla on 05-May-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: He's a responsible fellow..

18:49:55 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.kakobrekla.-4:469e7c46160c5874678009d80bec6c1577223d5e8a70ec3c9a47a266064ce4a0

18:49:55 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to -4 with note: believes in ideas rather than in people

18:53:25 danielpbarron: !rated PeterL

18:53:25 assbot: You have not rated PeterL.

18:53:27 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.PeterL.-3:cf644387913f71a5bed2550379c9c44b381f30aa6b2e9a6b3f13b2c59b1194bb

18:53:27 assbot: Successfully added a rating of -3 for PeterL with note: opportunistic parasite, quick to revel in de-mp-ization of b-a

19:02:12 nubbins`: danielpbarron pissing on the couch on the way out

19:02:17 *: nubbins` slow claps

19:04:48 PeterL: not sure what I did to deserve that but okay, we all know danielpbarron is a mp cocksucking moron who cannot think for himself. whatever

19:05:41 nubbins`: i wonder will #mp-a set up a new WoT, so that the members can pretend their reputations haven't been sullied

19:06:06 phf: draw benvolio beat down their weapons. gentlemen, for shame, forbear this outrage!

19:07:52 danielpbarron: !rated phf

19:07:52 assbot: You have not rated phf.

19:07:56 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.phf.-1:3f7470ab69e1da900d63bba2df269c4bfbd0ac2182919aeb0ee6d726299f27be

19:07:56 assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for phf with note: saw plenty of crazy, but didn't feel like mentioning it while the accused party was around to defend himself

19:08:28 PeterL: okay, I suppose I have nothing particular against danielpbarron, he has just decided to swallow whatever mp shits out with a big grin

19:08:40 PeterL: to each his own

19:08:57 danielpbarron: you are unsavory

19:09:01 phf: I am hurt. A plague o' both your houses! I am sped.

19:12:19 jurov: danielpbarron: i wonder when you're going to get some balls and downvote me, too

19:13:12 jurov: so far all these people you had no business with (or any other reason to rate) at all

19:13:49 asciilifeform: l0l danielpbarron

19:13:50 jurov: that was cheap

19:13:50 asciilifeform: where's mine

19:13:52 danielpbarron: i was just getting to that actually jurov

19:16:48 PeterL: danielpbarron "quick to revel in de-mp-ization of b-a" link please?

19:19:41 jurov: ain't it funny that dude that promotes "atruechurch" negrates others for "believing in ideas rather than in people"

19:20:08 jurov: danielpbarron cmon, how is the "atruechurch" not an idea?

19:21:17 danielpbarron: !rated fluffypony

19:21:17 assbot: You rated user fluffypony on 06-Sep-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: He's good for a trade in the 10 bitcoin range..

19:21:20 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.fluffypony.-2:c7a95ded631c76ce67380eca334107f837a5326539abb7e7b51484dfdfd6c4f2

19:21:20 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for fluffypony from 3 to -2 with note: a little too popular with the redditards, also fat

19:21:40 *: jurov claps

19:21:47 PeterL: fluffypony is fat? mind blown

19:21:53 danielpbarron: Darwin Fish is a person who I have met

19:24:09 nubbins`: !up molz

19:24:13 nubbins`: !up Taek

19:24:46 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2016#1441360

19:24:46 assbot: Logged on 28-03-2016 20:55:08; nubbins`: kakobrekla i nominate danielpbarron mircea_popescu and hanbot be purged from assbot L1

19:24:49 nubbins`: shrug toldja

19:25:57 nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/ObolcBf.gifv

19:25:57 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1pYZW5a )

19:26:07 Taek: hello

19:26:34 PeterL: hi taek, who are you?

19:26:59 Taek: PeterL: lead dev of Sia, one of the up-and-coming decentralized cloud storage platforms

19:27:11 Taek: http://sia.tech/

19:27:13 assbot: Sia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pZ09p9 )

19:27:25 asciilifeform: what brings you to #b-a, Taek ?

19:27:41 molz: nubbins`, thank you

19:28:01 asciilifeform: who might you be, molz ?

19:28:04 Taek: I was told this was a fun place to be

19:29:10 PeterL: so sia lets people rent their unused to other people using an altcoin?

19:29:45 Taek: PeterL: pretty much

19:30:07 molz: asciilifeform, oh i'm just a bitcoin user/fan

19:30:18 Taek: though, importantly, we combine a blockchain + encryption + erasure coding to make sure that data is safe in an adversarial environment, where hosts may be trying to take advantage of you

19:30:35 Taek: (and same for the hosts, the smart contracts protect the hosts from renters who may be trying to take advantage of them)

19:30:45 danielpbarron: why are these names that I recognize as idlers finally showing up to say something?

19:31:02 PeterL: somebody finally upped them?

19:31:12 Taek: danielpbarron: last time I got up'd I was afk.

19:31:38 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421655

19:31:38 assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 08:21:13; danielpbarron: !up Taek

19:42:31 danielpbarron: !rated jurov

19:42:31 assbot: You rated user jurov on 04-May-2014, with a rating of 4, and supplied these additional notes: coinbr to eulora exchanger.

19:42:34 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.jurov.3:78269df74b1ec1b9a936df1d6412638f47a124c42aa03b652aa4b3789ad79f63

19:42:35 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for jurov from 4 to 3 with note: coinbr, Euloran, wrong at times, but still holds a working joystick

19:43:21 jurov: is that some innuendo there?

19:43:35 asciilifeform: l0l

19:43:36 danielpbarron: sure why not

19:46:14 joecool: !rated nubbins`

19:46:14 assbot: You rated user nubbins` on 22-Oct-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: gave nice hiking tips over summer, good guy regular.

19:50:39 kakobrekla: lol danielpbarron even you upped him and now it is a crime in a place where you dont get to say? maybe its time to negrate yourself.

19:52:59 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1442098 < i dont think this makes any difference

19:52:59 assbot: Logged on 29-03-2016 19:24:49; nubbins`: shrug toldja

19:56:53 kakobrekla: re earlier thread http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1441582 < dpb now reminds me of his lunacy 'if mp stops using bitcoin i have no use for it too'. for all i care he can sell all his coins and all coins that do not belong to him and it would still not stop me from using the thing. why would it? its not like he can stop the blocks from manifesting. its rather opposite, he is unable to manifest a single one.

19:56:53 assbot: Logged on 29-03-2016 01:10:09; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: only the part of the dream where it has any chance of mattering in reality.

20:02:03 nubbins`: kakobrekla true

20:02:25 nubbins`: i think dpb is unable to manifest much

20:02:38 nubbins`: dread pirate bibleman

20:03:23 joecool: unfunny ljr

20:04:53 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1442093 < this is fishy. if Darwins existence ceases to be physical will you stop believing in the true church nonsense?

20:04:53 assbot: Logged on 29-03-2016 19:21:53; danielpbarron: Darwin Fish is a person who I have met

20:11:35 asciilifeform: waiwut

20:11:41 asciilifeform: darwinfish is a human?!

20:12:54 jurov: http://www.atruechurch.info/darwin.html apparently.

20:12:56 assbot: A True Church - Who Is Darwin Fish? ... ( http://bit.ly/1PE03rc )

20:13:00 kakobrekla: some lunatic renamed himself no?

20:17:21 asciilifeform: srsly?

20:18:19 kakobrekla: i have seen stranger things

20:19:17 kakobrekla: for example when inconsistent tx relay policies made a fool out of some guy not too long ago

20:19:41 kakobrekla: or perhaps that was less strange.

20:23:24 danielpbarron: actually he ~didn't~ rename himself, as that page explains

20:23:41 kakobrekla: ah sorry. born crazy then?

20:24:04 kakobrekla: anyway it doesnt really matter

20:24:07 danielpbarron: and it's not that bitcoin would stop working without mp; it's that who would want to use a bitcoin that mp doesn't endorse?

20:24:24 kakobrekla: pretty much everyone that is using it now

20:24:49 danielpbarron: kinda the point

20:25:11 kakobrekla: except you and mp naturally

20:29:03 kakobrekla: anyway please lets keep the convos here secular as there is already enough nonsense around

20:29:09 kakobrekla: bbl

20:54:53 kakobrekla: and possibly relevant blast from the past https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuptNDkjZVA

20:54:54 assbot: Bertrand Russell's Message to the Future - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1RxwQR3 )

21:42:57 fluffypony: PeterL: I'm definitely not a thin guy, here's an unflattering pic from a few weeks ago: https://twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/709015253061922816

21:43:13 fluffypony: here's a more flattering one: https://twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/704796653216260096

21:43:40 fluffypony: I like to think of myself as rotund and hirsute, which sounds much better than fat and hairy :-P

21:45:23 cazalla: you just gotta start lifting fluffypony and you'll be good

21:45:39 fluffypony: yeah just lack of time at the moment

21:45:57 fluffypony: on the way to Japan now, then South Korea, then home for a couple of weeks, and then to Amsterdam and Leipzig

21:46:09 fluffypony: once things settle I'll start playing squash again

21:46:18 cazalla: time? you rack a disciprine!

21:46:25 fluffypony: right now the only squash I'm playing is when I squash the pillow at night :-P

21:49:24 cazalla: dw, i'm not thin either, but i'm going for "the mountain" look

21:50:23 fluffypony: lol

22:03:12 jurov: you're going to hell regardless what you think.

22:03:40 jurov: Fish Wrap said so!

22:04:03 fluffypony: plus apparently the reddit peoples like me and that's the end of that

22:05:45 cazalla: !v assbot:cazalla.rate.danielpbarron.1:f7c250aaa36e722e6dd36bffb67e522396b627fca058968fec13075521b18b24

22:05:45 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for danielpbarron from 2 to 1 with note: the eternal righteous crusader, a paladin, will always prefer to fight with than against such a man

22:06:00 cazalla: !v assbot:cazalla.rate.kakobrekla.1:8cab5ca4886bf8bee213d11c0c5bbc9bf7d0ee3fde15e021ba3fd64b230bc587

22:06:00 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for kakobrekla with note: previously considered a cranky grandpa, now a principled cranky grandpa.

22:06:11 cazalla: !v assbot:cazalla.rate.mircea_popescu.3:492166fb10f9ae59843c339a5582952c67ccae2f594dd053f0113e51bfe5221e

22:06:11 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 3 to 3 with note: still is and will likely always remain someone that has greatly influenced my thinking and approach to life

22:06:26 cazalla: !v assbot:cazalla.rate.nubbins`.1:d9e3ae89bc8157b51242b3b45d52a7c5c40a1f6830a2b569c126ca17247e32ba

22:06:26 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for nubbins` with note: honourary shitposting australian, might have gone about things in a better matter.

22:06:42 cazalla: !v assbot:cazalla.rate.pete_dushenski.1:738ed39eca0557869761922d52f88d0f96cb59dd5b895c13e73b307c68c1cfb4

22:06:43 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for pete_dushenski from 1 to 1 with note: still like the guy, but truth be told, he is that kid that always needed a good flogging but never got one, needs a few punches in the face to bring him back to reality

22:09:02 cazalla: and with that, i'm getting the fuck out and going detecting, sold a portion of coins to buy a 4wd, kitted out my detecting gear and going bush http://i.imgur.com/YMxJI8i.jpg

22:09:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1pZwJac )

22:09:34 cazalla: so long fucknauts