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Transcript for 30-01-2015, 1371 lines:

00:00:08 mircea_popescu: not in bitcoin, not in the world, not in any sense. they're here for feedstock and no more.

00:00:12 mircea_popescu: hire smarter people.

00:05:25 jurov: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-23/capital-one-fraud-researchers-may-also-have-done-some-fraud << if you haven't seen redacted sql query before

00:05:26 assbot: Capital One Fraud Researchers May Also Have Done Some Fraud - Bloomberg View ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hnb8zh )

00:05:35 mircea_popescu: !up felipelalli

00:05:45 mircea_popescu: felipelalli go moderate your blog comments.

00:06:11 mircea_popescu: http://media.gotraffic.net/images/i40O05xhY5Ow/v49/-1x-1.png ahaha epic.

00:06:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hnbkyo )

00:06:34 mircea_popescu: i gotta say ... that's some gnarly shit. is this how sql actually works ?

00:07:10 trinque: mircea_popescu: no! dear god no!

00:07:22 mircea_popescu: trinque % is wildcard right ?

00:07:32 trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah for the like operator

00:07:33 mircea_popescu: there's like 100 of them in there, that should be pretty wild to run

00:07:58 trinque: the sad thing about sql is it tried to be an end user programming language

00:08:08 trinque: behind that mess is an utterly elegant data model

00:08:25 trinque: really relational algebra's the thing, not sql, and someone should redo the former sans the latter

00:08:45 trinque: the idea was accountants or somesuch would be able to write SQL

00:09:00 mircea_popescu: hm.

00:09:26 Naphex: mircea_popescu: whats dummer is that looks like a table for machine learning

00:09:30 Naphex: and its using sql for that

00:09:33 Naphex: big lol

00:11:10 Naphex: horrible stuff

00:11:34 mircea_popescu: pretty gnarly.

00:12:15 trinque: Naphex: neh your thing just needs to be smart enough to make its own tables, relational can do runtime structure creation just fine

00:12:21 trinque: the system catalog is there for a reason

00:12:25 davout: CASEs in SQL queries, my eyes burn

00:12:56 cazalla: BingoBoingo, you and your altcoin coverage!!

00:13:13 trinque: I had a mentor burn rdbms into my mind indelibly; it's as right and overlooked as lisp

00:13:13 BingoBoingo: cazalla: danielpbarron's altcoin coverage

00:14:05 cazalla: BingoBoingo, but you encouraged him! i'm not too fussed on altcoins but i would've made mention how foolish redditors were to believe a jew was going to give away 5 million

00:14:11 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes was about 160ish it bottomed out neh ? << which plebs actually caught that knife?

00:14:12 davout: trinque: a lot of rdbms will let you do relational algebra, it's just that people don't use it

00:14:17 BingoBoingo: lol cazalla

00:14:41 trinque: davout: well shit, a lot of derps try to turn it into a key value store

00:14:51 trinque: and all kinds of other foot-blown-off scenarios

00:15:05 davout: yup

00:15:10 trinque: incidentally postgresql spanks the ass off any other kv store on earth

00:15:17 trinque: with native json types

00:16:29 jurov: mircea_popescu: that was *enterprise* sql

00:16:45 davout: trinque: how do you even use that kind of stuff, does it give you tools to actually filter on the json object?

00:17:05 davout: iirc mssql also had the kind of native stuff for xml

00:17:16 jurov: davout yes it does

00:17:20 davout: may it burn in hell

00:17:21 trinque: yep

00:17:23 jurov: with indexes, everything

00:17:38 trinque: postgres ate yer mongo, postgres ate yer couch

00:17:48 BingoBoingo: !up felipelalli

00:17:52 trinque: postgres slapped your mother, postgres fucked your spouse

00:18:01 mats: mongo was never good

00:18:11 trinque: mats: reasoning of "json therefore..."

00:18:32 mats: says the db guy i work with, anyway.

00:18:56 trinque: any new database will incrementally do the things sql already did

00:19:03 trinque: or kick them to the app layer where those idiots will do even worse

00:19:11 trinque: constraints, indexes, transactions, etc etc

00:19:37 davout: sure, lets use uuids as primary keys

00:19:49 trinque: this idea for example that schema's too hard! the fuck?! like building the lack of schema into each query isn't infinitely worse?

00:20:14 trinque: and you can write dynamic code even that will build out schema for you because there's a system catalog to reference

00:20:26 trinque: ^ most underused feature of SQL there is

00:21:01 trinque: I once wrote a thing that'd dynamically generate schema for production rules of a given grammer given the relational representation of that grammar, and a dynamic to-string in the other direction

00:21:04 trinque: do that in your mongo

00:21:13 jurov: schema is subject to change irl and there be dragons. but i presume with btc it isn't a problem, no changes expected

00:21:43 Naphex: loving the java8 aggregates/stream api http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/collections/streams/reduction.htm

00:21:44 assbot: Error Page 404 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HngElg )

00:22:01 jurov: oracle nixed it

00:22:06 trinque: the company all but collapsed but we produced this: https://github.com/aquameta/pg_meta

00:22:07 assbot: aquameta/pg_meta · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HngJWa )

00:22:39 trinque: having that you can write queries which output things which can be inserted into the writable system catalog

00:23:07 jurov: okay let's not go overboard with this :)

00:23:31 davout: jurov: lol, too late

00:23:33 trinque: jurov: what, writing wads of plpgsql to do it is better?

00:23:49 trinque: being able to declaratively modify schema was incredible

00:23:57 trinque: too bad the owner of the biz thought money was filthy

00:24:03 jurov: 90% of migrations isn't about schema, but about data

00:24:22 trinque: I also jacked git into postgres and did an automatic migrations system

00:24:27 trinque: via a foreign data wrapper

00:24:45 trinque: given the right set of first principles in a system so many things become trivial

00:25:06 Naphex: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/collections/streams/reduction.html - rocks for data access

00:25:08 assbot: Reduction (The Java™ Tutorials > Collections > Aggregate Operations) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HnhEWs )

00:25:14 Naphex: missed an l before

00:25:41 jurov: looks like sqlalchemy

00:25:49 trinque: yeh I don't tend to like these middle layers

00:25:55 davout: Naphex: looks like derpy ruby :D

00:26:02 trinque: ^ lol

00:26:43 trinque: I'm oop racist so don't mind me

00:26:43 Naphex: davout: hehe, a bit maybe. because of the method chaining

00:27:15 davout: Naphex: filter(p -> p.getGender() == Person.Sex.MALE) <<< this

00:27:42 BingoBoingo: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--cahvA-s5--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/ha51bj7yo0hnmrtjhogc.jpg

00:27:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hnixym )

00:27:44 davout: select(&:male?) yo

00:28:00 Naphex: the lambdas?

00:28:09 davout: yea

00:28:20 trinque: jeez is that java lambda syntax?

00:28:37 trinque: oh no, the one above

00:29:08 Naphex: aye

00:29:23 trinque: what's the second one?

00:29:35 trinque: ampersand colon fuck my life question mark

00:29:50 davout: each time i hear about java i can't help but picture these SomeObjectFactoryBuilder.getObjectFactory().getObject()

00:30:01 trinque: I don't see why we're still doing objects

00:30:09 trinque: shitty dispatch, shitty scoping tool, shitty ....

00:30:09 davout: trinque: that & is just a pointer to function

00:30:28 davout: the ? is here just to troll you, because question marks are allowed in function names

00:30:33 trinque: ah lol

00:30:50 trinque: hey that doesn't even make me mad

00:31:06 trinque: ! for side effects, ? for booleans, seems fine to me

00:31:39 davout: yup

00:31:51 Naphex: i'm actually liking the lambda syntax :D

00:32:00 Naphex: (Person p) -> p.getGender() == Person.Sex.MALE && p.getAge() >= 18 && p.getAge() <= 25

00:32:19 trinque: (fn butts ...)

00:32:48 trinque: how dare these languages steal fire from the gods and claim it as their own

00:33:17 davout: p.male? && p.can_drink? && !p.wrinkly? <<< ruby is better

00:33:35 trinque: rubby aint no lisp

00:33:42 BingoBoingo: http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--VN43K3eE--/ld5qrkkxenvu9o8sqjy7.png

00:33:44 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hnkfji )

00:33:48 trinque: python's my default slumming language

00:33:58 trinque: long as you never write "class" you'll survive

00:33:59 davout: BingoBoingo: is this dog?

00:34:06 BingoBoingo: Indeed

00:34:26 BingoBoingo: Dachshund/Pit bull mix

00:35:12 BingoBoingo: http://www.countryliving.com/outdoor/outdoor-living/pitbull-dashund-mix

00:35:13 assbot: Rami The Pitbull Dachshund Mix - Country Living ... ( http://bit.ly/1HnkH17 )

00:35:13 jurov: Person.query.filter(Person.gender== Person.Sex.MALE && p.age >= 18 && p.age <= 25)

00:35:23 jurov: ^ py/sqlalchemy

00:35:23 davout: BingoBoingo: hah yeah, i didn't notice at first but it does look like it

00:35:52 BingoBoingo: Availabru for adotion

00:36:21 davout: it's cute and scary at the same time

00:37:05 trinque: face of "this is what your human hubris has wrought"

00:38:10 davout: ok i'm off, laters!

00:38:15 BingoBoingo: Adoption horror story http://www.countryliving.com/outdoor/outdoor-living/esther-the-wonder-pig

00:38:17 assbot: This Couple Thought They'd Adopted a Mini Pig&#151;But It Turned Out to Be a 650 Pound Porker - Esther the Wonder Pig - Country Living ... ( http://bit.ly/1HnlnU9 )

00:39:43 trinque: so eat the bastard

00:39:45 trinque: looks great

00:40:27 trinque: ...canadians, they're probably vegan

00:40:50 trinque: "the duo are now vegans" LOOOL

00:40:55 cazalla: he's fucking game laying next to it for a nap, pigs are known for rolling and crushing the piglets

00:41:51 BingoBoingo: Surprised it hasn't ate the dogs

00:44:39 felipelalli: Hi gang noise! :] (sorry if I can't express myself very well in English) First of all, I want to apologize for that "gavin day", really sorry about that.

00:44:39 felipelalli: Then, I can see you guys are talking something about altcoins (I couldn't follow everything), and by change I've been thinking all day about something related to write an article. Actually I've been thinking about it from a long time ago, and the subject is: << the importance (or not) of a strong "second" coin >> and I'd love to read the most I could about it (altcoins, sidechain, and related) and I'm sure you guys have have a plenty of

00:44:40 felipelalli: material. I know I can search on Google but I guess you guys already have selected that "cherry cake" about this theme. Trying to summarize: my point is to show the importance (or not) of a strong coin to be used together with bitcoin. My initial thesis is that in the future (almost) all wallets will work with two (or maybe 3) totally different coins. The second coin would be so important as silver was in the past when the government tried

00:44:40 felipelalli: to "confiscated" the gold (I heard about that but I have to study more deeply). I came to this conclusion because I know bitcoin can't be available 24/7 forever. It will eventually fail in some situation (for example during a bad made hard fork - either because Gavin's gang spoiled or not) and at that time everybody should already is using some strong second coin to be used as backup during a temporary "bitcoin blackout". I think this coin

00:44:40 felipelalli: would work similar as silver works to the economy (silver have ~ 777B market cap in a quick search I just made, not too much compared with gold but it is enough). Even if this coin have only 5 or 6% of total bitcoin value, it could be useful to "don't stop the world" when bitcoin is under attack or maintenance. --- If I am wrong about that, I could write about what this is a bad idea and altcoins are bad at all.

00:44:40 felipelalli: Thank you!

00:45:01 trinque: jesus christ dude, use a pastebin

00:45:06 felipelalli: ahhaah sorry

00:45:23 felipelalli: I'd write few, but... you know. I just wrote, wrote...

00:45:54 thestringpuller: so harsh trinque

00:46:00 thestringpuller: as long as his count doesn't go above mircea_popescu

00:46:18 pete_dushenski: Hi gang noise! :] << best opening line. ever.

00:46:19 trinque: thestringpuller: shit to substance ratio applies

00:46:44 thestringpuller: A pete_dushenski!

00:46:49 thestringpuller: now we can talk cars

00:46:51 pete_dushenski: lol hey man

00:46:55 ben_vulpes: felipelalli: welcome back

00:46:58 jurov: felipelalli: if you dream of altcoins, you might make elevator pitch about monero

00:47:09 felipelalli: ben_vulpes: thank you!

00:47:16 cazalla: felipelalli, you need more logs before this idea

00:47:24 jurov: ^ that too

00:47:34 felipelalli: cazalla: that's the idea.

00:47:44 felipelalli: cazalla: sorry, logs in which sense?

00:48:25 ben_vulpes: felipelalli: logs.bitcoin-assets.com

00:48:28 ben_vulpes: !up felipelalli

00:49:21 felipelalli: ben_vulpes: and do you guys can point an specific relevant conversation about that? a day? month? Or just dig, dig, dig? :)

00:49:39 ben_vulpes: oh jeez well start with search.bitcoin.assets

00:49:42 ben_vulpes: !s altcoin

00:49:43 assbot: 1215 results for 'altcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=altcoin

00:49:49 ben_vulpes: !s moner

00:49:50 assbot: 0 results for 'moner' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=moner

00:49:52 ben_vulpes: !s monero

00:49:53 assbot: 93 results for 'monero' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=monero

00:49:55 ben_vulpes: !s litecoin

00:49:56 assbot: 566 results for 'litecoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=litecoin

00:49:58 ben_vulpes: !s potcoin

00:49:58 assbot: 0 results for 'potcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=potcoin

00:50:03 ben_vulpes: lolrly?

00:50:06 ben_vulpes: !s darkcoin

00:50:12 assbot: 61 results for 'darkcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=darkcoin

00:50:29 ben_vulpes: do you get it?

00:50:33 felipelalli: yes, perfect!

00:50:53 ben_vulpes: mk

00:51:03 ben_vulpes: well i'm off to hobnob with the lawyers i'll catch y'all on the flipside

00:51:11 danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, last sentence of that article: s/it's/its/

00:51:27 felipelalli: this search engine seems pretty smart.

00:51:32 felipelalli: thank you.

00:51:36 ben_vulpes: felipelalli: tell that to asciilifeform :D

00:51:46 kakobrekla: and dont forget to run.

00:51:52 felipelalli: asciilifeform: your engine is pretty smart, thank you. :)

00:51:54 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: done

00:52:03 kakobrekla: lel.

00:53:12 thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i never wanna see a regex search and replace again

00:53:14 thestringpuller: :(

00:55:07 ben_vulpes: mjokes my clock's an hour fast

01:01:25 mike_c: felipelalli: read this. http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

01:01:26 assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hnsb4e )

01:02:09 felipelalli: *perfect* thanks mike_c !!

01:04:24 jurov: felipelalli there's much more good stuff on fraudsters

01:04:57 felipelalli: jurov: I'll search. Thank you.

01:15:25 ben_vulpes: isis taking off after the Kingdom?

01:16:07 mod6: felipelalli: read all of 2012, 2013, 2014 & 2015 fraudsters.com

01:16:24 mod6: there are some good ones in 2011 too

01:16:57 felipelalli: mod6: thanks, a lot to study!

01:16:59 felipelalli: year 1933 - seizure of gold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102, seizure of silver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6814 one year later. Just insane.

01:17:01 assbot: Executive Order 6102, - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1yGYbpe )

01:17:02 assbot: Executive Order 6814 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1yGYbFF )

01:26:43 pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/30/how-to-become-a-good-poker-player-translated/

01:26:44 assbot: How to become a good poker player, translated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1HnAg8Y )

01:27:27 pete_dushenski: ^for the non-romanian-speaking poker players among us

01:28:58 mike_c: conference this year should definitely include a poker game

01:31:27 asciilifeform: felipelalli: i didn't write it. and it's a piece of shit.

01:32:11 jurov: any canadian around here pls - are corporations' annual reports public? and where?

01:32:34 pete_dushenski: mike_c even though i won't be there, that's a sublime idea

01:32:48 pete_dushenski: jurov what corporations are these?

01:32:57 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: why won't be there ?

01:32:57 jurov: https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=7173326

01:33:11 felipelalli: asciilifeform: ahahahah. fair. are you writing a better one?

01:33:13 jurov: it says "Filed" but where?

01:33:25 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform a good friend's wedding.

01:33:39 pete_dushenski: i'd be remiss if i missed it

01:33:43 asciilifeform: felipelalli: it has a brain-damaged option turned on, that replaces words with supposedly similar ones

01:34:00 asciilifeform: felipelalli: could be turned off, would take five seconds. but it isn't my search engine

01:34:38 felipelalli: asciilifeform: isn't that part of assbot wrote by you?

01:34:44 asciilifeform: no.

01:34:54 pete_dushenski: jurov hmm. i don't believe that there's a requirement to publish annual reports for private corporations.

01:35:00 pete_dushenski: in canada

01:35:26 jurov: kk

01:35:44 pete_dushenski: that's all for me for today. laters!

01:36:30 jurov: hm. interesting, while even my puny llc has to have balance sheet public

01:37:43 mike_c: or anywhere else afaik.

01:37:59 mike_c: that's one of the perks of "private"

01:39:26 jurov: there's no such thing as private corp. here. anything except for physical person gets their filings published

01:40:16 mike_c: wow. balance sheet says who? audited?

01:40:48 jurov: not necessarily audited. it's just mandatory part of yearly tax report

01:41:02 mike_c: interesting

01:44:18 jurov: and why i'm asking in first place. noo corp.is our friend jorash again

01:44:23 jurov: i'll say more later

01:44:54 jurov: of simulated quantum computing fame

01:45:03 trinque: http://qz.com/332059/apple-is-reportedly-giving-the-chinese-government-access-to-its-devices-for-a-security-assessment/

01:45:04 assbot: Apple is reportedly giving the Chinese government access to its devices for “security checks” – Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1yH6nWA )

01:49:08 asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2015/01/brown-147.pdf << mega-usg-lol

01:49:10 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yH7m9g )

01:49:26 asciilifeform: ^ condemned to pay infinite fine, and to use only microshit

01:49:48 asciilifeform: (pgs. 4, 5)

01:50:02 asciilifeform: on top of jail term

01:51:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00041692 = 13.133 BTC [-]

01:53:31 trinque: asciilifeform: "mental health treatment" << we will drug the fuck out of you until you forget your name

01:54:00 asciilifeform: for non-u.s. folks: gigantic fines like these are imposed in case the condemned owned any real estate

01:54:05 asciilifeform: which is then auctioned off

01:59:51 danielpbarron: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/channellogs/supybot/%23supybot.2010-10-11.log << birth of gribble?

01:59:52 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yHaxO7 )

02:00:43 decimation: asciilifeform: lol @ probation restrictions

02:00:59 asciilifeform: decimation: apparently, typical

02:01:11 decimation: yes, given that they are a 'program'

02:01:44 asciilifeform: it's rather puzzling why they haven't reached the point where the condemned is required to wear a wireless microphone, camera, and shock collar

02:02:03 decimation: why don't these kind of people with a brain just leave the country?

02:02:16 trinque: decimation: working on it!!

02:02:18 asciilifeform: hard enough -without- the collar

02:02:48 decimation: I guess usg is very good at the good cop/bad cop routine in its derpy way

02:02:48 trinque: turns out you have to pay them for the right to cross the imaginary line an odd number of times

02:03:33 decimation: the real problem with us 'gulag' system isn't really the jail term, etc

02:03:37 asciilifeform: trinque: that's more of an issue if you're actually worth money

02:03:43 decimation: it's the fact that you will never be employed by a non-sleazy person again

02:04:10 trinque: asciilifeform: I imagine so

02:08:11 asciilifeform: usa is a tar pit the likes of which cannot be imagined by folks unfamiliar with the subject. those without money - cannot afford to make even basic preparations to flee; those with some - e.g., with a profession - know full well that they are not needed or wanted outside of the usg sphere of influence; those with serious money - understand (or sometimes don't) that their 'wealth' is really a creature of usg, and really lives i

02:08:11 asciilifeform: n the treasury all along

02:08:40 trinque: decimation: my biz employs a friend who was thoroughly stomped by the... incidentally texan justice system for sending a prank email

02:08:49 trinque: in high school

02:09:04 trinque: they pounded him under some kind of computer terrorism thing, and he could barely find work

02:09:07 trinque: sharp dude, works his ass off

02:09:18 decimation: yeah I feel sorry for folks caught in such a chumpatron

02:09:26 decimation: he would be better off going to mexico probably

02:09:30 asciilifeform: if i were a kgb recruiter, i would be searching for these folks.

02:09:33 asciilifeform: far and wide.

02:09:40 mike_c: asciilifeform: what's the target memory usage for this thing?

02:09:45 decimation: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/tor-and-encryption-have-created-a-zone-of-lawlessness-justice-department-says

02:09:46 assbot: Tor and Encryption Have Created a ‘Zone of Lawlessness,’ Justice Department Says | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1yHdj5V )

02:09:46 asciilifeform: mike_c: <128M

02:10:18 decimation: "Caldwell was being interviewed as a part of the annual State of the Net Conference in Washington, DC. One minute, she was vilifying encryption; the next, she was sending a message to the country’s citizens and companies that they need to be “more conscious of cybersecurity.” “They need to be assuming they are vulnerable, assuming their data can be taken,” she said"

02:10:28 mike_c: ok. mine takes ~220 right out of the gate, i assume there are some dials that can lower that?

02:10:51 trinque: how do they expect to beat the curiosity out of people for generations and expect that anyone useful will be produced?

02:10:52 asciilifeform: mike_c: what you're seeing is largely os disk cache.

02:11:17 mike_c: k

02:11:32 cazalla: asciilifeform, why recruit these folk? fwiw, i never had a single one door knock me and offer a job lol https://twitter.com/captaincazalla/status/559163136096600065

02:11:34 assbot: i'm an OG troll.. this was from 15 years ago today.. i'll still be at it in another 15 years http://t.co/wURemoBAKY

02:12:04 mike_c: as update, my 0 orphan test didn't go anywhere (stopped cold at block 500). So I'm trying now with a 50 block orphan cache. I think the right number is proportional to the # of connections you have.

02:12:09 mike_c: anyhoo, we'll see how this one runs.

02:12:10 asciilifeform: cazalla: what's that

02:13:08 cazalla: <asciilifeform> if i were a kgb recruiter, i would be searching for these folks. <<< re: that or maybe i just misread chat

02:13:16 asciilifeform: aha

02:13:56 asciilifeform: cazalla: what's the perfect job for intelligent, resourceful folks shut out of the normal economy by demented regime ?

02:14:25 cazalla: killing people or just making threats? :P

02:14:55 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> cazalla: what's the perfect job for intelligent, resourceful folks shut out of the normal economy by demented regime ? << Very interested in answer to this question.

02:14:57 asciilifeform: the fascination with 'death threats' the nato world has is very peculiar

02:15:16 trinque: asciilifeform: this was how my friend's email was construed

02:15:17 asciilifeform: if you were planning to kill someone, would you helpfully tell him first ?

02:15:47 trinque: can't recall the text of it but really... "school's out forever" level stuff, nothing terrible

02:15:51 decimation: asciilifeform: I think it is related to the 'confession culture' of the us legal system

02:15:56 trinque: grow up cowards

02:16:38 asciilifeform: it's related to the 'cardinal richelieu' culture of having the proverbial six words written by every honest man to hang him by

02:16:53 asciilifeform: some fool with a short temper, fond of 'death threating' - will be condemned for that

02:16:57 asciilifeform: dope aficionado - for dope

02:17:12 asciilifeform: popular with the gurlz? (assange!) - 'rape'

02:17:13 asciilifeform: etc.

02:17:21 trinque: make any money? irs

02:17:29 asciilifeform: can fill in this chart

02:17:30 asciilifeform: not hard.

02:17:35 cazalla: actually, australian magistrate's just tell you to go away and stop wasting his time with death threat charges

02:18:13 decimation: cazalla: do they jail the drunken aboriginals much there?

02:18:40 cazalla: decimation, nope, they run em over https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCxc4SjpN6M

02:18:41 assbot: Man jumps off bridge and gets hit by a fire truck - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1yHfDKo )

02:18:52 BingoBoingo: Pretty sure Australia just helps the Abbos gas themselves

02:19:03 decimation: \\]

02:20:30 cazalla: BingoBoingo, that'd be the british, they'd bury the abo kids in the sand and kick their heads off

02:21:01 BingoBoingo: cazalla: I though your government was still shipping them that recreational 87 octane

02:22:00 cazalla: cheap atm too, 99c a L for 91o, i'm sure the abos can afford top shelf 98o at these prices

02:24:39 asciilifeform: if anyone here is fond of www programming, can write one of those quizzes, a la 'which genocidal dictator are you?' --- 'what will you be in u.s. prison for, ten years hence ?'

02:24:58 BingoBoingo: Gas just went up 25 cents here today after going up 10 cents earlier this week.

02:25:25 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: a number of locales are in the process of raising fuel tax, yours may be one of them

02:26:04 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not yet. Across the river there is talk of it, but not yet here.

02:26:06 asciilifeform: basic 'laffer curve' idea, it would seem

02:26:46 BingoBoingo: Right

02:34:22 BingoBoingo: Mega lol http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/01/29/i-dont-know-what-to-do-you-guys/

02:34:23 assbot: I don’t know what to do, you guys | Fredrik deBoer ... ( http://bit.ly/1yHk4VA )

02:40:37 BingoBoingo: !up goldview

02:45:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41250 @ 0.0004302 = 17.7458 BTC [+] {3}

02:53:46 BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: If you ever have reason to soul slander gar again, here is a picture of his namesake meeting an end https://twitter.com/PicTimedPerfect/status/359290644281294848/photo/1

02:53:47 assbot: Dinner time. http://t.co/byNpmBnFRU

02:54:14 kakobrekla: lol

02:54:19 kakobrekla: nice pic

03:01:47 danielpbarron: ;;later tell girevik you're rating in the wrong WoT!

03:01:48 gribble: The operation succeeded.

03:06:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59200 @ 0.00041426 = 24.5242 BTC [-] {2}

03:20:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46458 @ 0.00042063 = 19.5416 BTC [+] {2}

03:39:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20051 @ 0.00042889 = 8.5997 BTC [+] {2}

03:46:33 mircea_popescu: ahhh lomito de cordero &trumpeter malbec

03:49:04 mircea_popescu: felipelalli http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/

03:49:05 assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ySxvXi )

03:50:50 mircea_popescu: felipelalli: asciilifeform: your engine is pretty smart, thank you. :) <<< mmm win :D

03:51:12 mircea_popescu: shit mike_c beats me by like hours.

03:51:47 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: ^for the non-romanian-speaking poker players among us << sheeit check that out

03:58:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26650 @ 0.00041314 = 11.0102 BTC [-]

04:20:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00041213 = 5.3371 BTC [-] {3}

04:22:50 mats: brown-147.pdf << where is your republic now?

04:30:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37792 @ 0.00041129 = 15.5435 BTC [-] {2}

04:31:58 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/01/barret-brown-the-myth-of-plea-leniency/

04:33:41 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'Явка с повинной облегчает совесть и удлиняет срок.' (ru. jailhouse proverb: 'a guilty plea lightens your conscience and lengthens your sentence.')

04:34:48 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That's really all it seems like except for those who accept a side of pederastry as they plea

04:35:47 BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2u4nv4/ryan_x_charles_on_twitter_i_was_just_let_go_from/co5899p?context=3

04:35:49 assbot: ryancarnated comments on Ryan X. Charles on Twitter: "I was just let go from reddit because cryptocurrency is not a part of reddit's near-term plans. This is unfortunate, but understandable." ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBITH2 )

04:36:19 danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, "The get hit with just under a million dollars" s/The/Then/c

04:37:21 BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: fxd, thx

04:42:54 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But in American popular culture there is a carefully groomed myth through all kinds of fictitious media that in criminal proceedings a plea always results in some form of mercy from the courts when all it does is keep the cattle line moving through the feedlot.

04:46:10 danielpbarron: !rated metsuno

04:46:10 assbot: metsuno is not registered in WoT.

04:46:18 danielpbarron: !up metsuno

04:48:03 danielpbarron: hi metsuno

04:48:10 metsuno: Hi Daniel

04:48:45 metsuno: The constant openness of this channel, and everyone on it, freightens me slightly.

04:48:51 danielpbarron: heh

04:48:53 danielpbarron: good

04:50:00 metsuno: Why don't I see more pseudonymity here?

04:50:25 danielpbarron: what is that?

04:50:59 danielpbarron: anonymity is counter to the purposes of the WoT, although a user does not need to link their key to their slave name

04:51:14 metsuno: anonymity != pseudonymity

04:51:28 metsuno: oh

04:51:35 metsuno: I didn't read it that carefully

04:53:12 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski: http://fraudsters.com/2015/how-to-be-good-at-poker/

04:53:13 assbot: How to be good at poker pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lovg3r )

04:53:13 gribble: The operation succeeded.

04:54:04 mircea_popescu: <metsuno> The constant openness of this channel, and everyone on it, freightens me slightly. << so it should.

04:54:09 mircea_popescu: we are the eaters of worlds.

04:54:53 mircea_popescu: jurov: any canadian around here pls - are corporations' annual reports public? and where? << if listed as a stock yes. if not, no.

04:56:25 mircea_popescu: mike_c: or anywhere else afaik. << http://www.listafirme.ro/polimedia-srl-22530016/

04:56:27 assbot: SC POLIMEDIA SRL din Dumbravita Str. Szentes 7a, CUI 22530016 ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBMBAh )

04:57:56 metsuno: What does it feel like to be the eaters of worlds?

04:59:28 BingoBoingo: It isn't so bad, but you need to keep antacid tablets on you. The last thing you want is world induced dyspepsia affecting your composure.

05:00:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00041111 = 1.9733 BTC [-]

05:04:01 danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, "Had he lost at trial in the worst way one every count and received" s/one/won/c

05:04:51 BingoBoingo: fxd thx

05:09:09 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/how-to-be-good-at-poker/

05:09:13 asciilifeform: so!!!

05:09:29 asciilifeform: i just began live-fire test of the first really dangerous patch

05:09:33 asciilifeform: for therealbitcoin

05:09:44 asciilifeform: a backport of the orphan trimming mechanism.

05:13:10 BingoBoingo: Good luck

05:13:29 asciilifeform: even if it works, it will need serious review

05:13:36 asciilifeform: by folks who actually understand what they are doing.

05:17:04 BingoBoingo: !up metsuno

05:18:19 danielpbarron: metsuno, get in that WoT so i can rate you!

05:18:21 metsuno: Thanks BingoBoingo

05:18:42 danielpbarron: and who were you btw, forgive me i can't recall who you were

05:18:43 metsuno: I'm need to muck around with my os first though

05:18:46 danielpbarron: it's been a while since porcfest

05:19:24 metsuno: we had a very lenghty discussion about bitcoin. you told me about the awesomeness of openbsd. i helped you pretend-assassinate that guy.

05:19:46 danielpbarron: ohhh cool that's who i thought

05:21:43 danielpbarron: that assassin thing was the best part of the whole week, besides poker of course

05:23:04 metsuno: it was an interesting adventure. that's for sure.

05:23:32 danielpbarron: are you going to the next one? I'm planning on it

05:24:17 danielpbarron: hopefully with a box full of cardanos and a qntra press pass

05:24:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not so sure this is a good idea.

05:25:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a test.

05:25:11 mircea_popescu: "a test"

05:25:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: quite certainly not meant to go in the tree under any circumstances.

05:25:19 asciilifeform: test of hypothesis.

05:26:04 asciilifeform: it runs

05:26:14 asciilifeform: but i very much did not like what i had to do to get it to build.

05:26:24 metsuno: danielpbarron, I'm definitely going.

05:27:51 asciilifeform: i will describe the algorithm here.

05:27:57 asciilifeform: (as found in the enemy code)

05:28:43 asciilifeform: what they did is to set a limit (default == 750) of 'orphan blocks' (terribly confusing term, nothing whatsoever to do with orphaned chains)

05:28:59 asciilifeform: and when the limit is reached, one is picked for eviction from the cache

05:29:17 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell phillipsjk "run into the ground" ? lay off the pipe, man. you don't have enough disposable income to cover my harem's feminine hygiene products bill.

05:29:17 gribble: The operation succeeded.

05:29:19 asciilifeform: but if it has antecedents, the chain of those is followed to the end and the terminus is dropped.

05:29:27 mircea_popescu: a collection of yous is going to run exactly noting into exactly nothing.

05:30:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as i said before, it's a kudge to fix another kludge. we don't really wnat any of it.

05:30:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can't even begin to fathom how true this is

05:30:39 asciilifeform: (unless you read the bugger)

05:31:08 asciilifeform: the question does remain, however - what is to be done with toy node

05:31:11 mircea_popescu: you know the joke with the shitting jews ?

05:31:14 asciilifeform: ?

05:31:25 mircea_popescu: two jews shitting in adjoining stalls.

05:31:31 mircea_popescu: "hey, do you suppose this is work ?"

05:31:38 mircea_popescu: "nah. if it were, we'd be paying someone to do it for us."

05:31:44 asciilifeform: lol!

05:31:55 mircea_popescu: anyway. "what is to be done" re what ?

05:32:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it can't fly with as it presently lives.

05:32:17 mircea_popescu: and you know this how ?

05:32:38 asciilifeform: strong empirical data

05:32:42 mircea_popescu: be specific.

05:32:49 asciilifeform: oomkill every 20 min. or so

05:32:53 mircea_popescu: so ?

05:33:05 mircea_popescu: once it takes > 10 mins / block i'll care.

05:33:10 asciilifeform: eventually db will be corrupted (may already be silently corrupt?)

05:33:20 mircea_popescu: it'll be fine.

05:33:29 asciilifeform: see observations of ben_vulpes re: above

05:33:46 mircea_popescu: trust in your t-34 with non-interchangeable parts and random fabrication defects

05:33:48 asciilifeform: other thing is, it's quadratic.

05:33:50 mircea_popescu: it won a great patriotic war.

05:33:55 mircea_popescu: look, let it run first.

05:34:00 asciilifeform: every time the thing reboots, the longer the chain, the longer the re-init.

05:34:13 mircea_popescu: let it run to where it takes > 10 minutes / block.

05:34:32 asciilifeform: there's another aspect to it

05:34:45 asciilifeform: the behaviour of the thing during death is by no means well-defined

05:34:50 mircea_popescu: right.

05:34:56 asciilifeform: not merely concerning the db

05:35:08 asciilifeform: but if node is being used 'in anger'

05:35:15 mircea_popescu: welcome the filth that is practical bitcoin into your heart, ascii

05:36:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3170 @ 0.00091997 = 2.9163 BTC [+] {3}

05:36:06 asciilifeform: enemy will search far and wide for stories of one of these things catastrophically losing

05:36:16 asciilifeform: and if can't find, will create plausible scene.

05:36:46 mircea_popescu: so ?

05:36:56 mircea_popescu: enemy can not beat 12 dolla.

05:37:16 asciilifeform: he will say 'mine is $0, runs on your winblows pc'

05:37:28 mircea_popescu: we're upstream. enemy wants to kill bitpay, it can start a forkwar with me. enemy wants to convince people "bitcoin sucks", it can "create plausible scenes"

05:37:31 mircea_popescu: yaya.

05:38:33 asciilifeform: just pointing out that it may prove tricky to convince folks that a node which is, de facto, 7/8th duty cycle or worse, is a good thing

05:39:06 asciilifeform: likewise, the orphans thing is an easy ddos vector

05:39:26 asciilifeform: any moron can connect to one of our boxes and take a steaming shit in it

05:39:42 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/30/how-to-become-a-good-poker-player-translated/#comment-9277 << is this guy from a parallel universe or wtf.

05:39:43 assbot: How to become a good poker player, translated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1EtmYp1 )

05:39:43 asciilifeform: insta-zap.

05:40:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 12 dollars.

05:40:39 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Opiates are not barbiturate, and heroin withdrawal indeed often only makes people wish they were dying.

05:40:39 asciilifeform: 12 dollars for a box that can be driven off the net by blowing on it

05:41:01 mircea_popescu: i never heard of an "alcohol addict" dead for no alcohol.

05:41:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you have to keep blowing.

05:41:24 BingoBoingo: barbiturate withdrawals, benzodiazepine withdrawals and alcohols withdrawls, potentially deadly "Delerium Tremens"

05:41:41 mircea_popescu: delirium tremens is hardly that ffs.

05:41:42 asciilifeform: the 'naturally-occurring' nodes supply most of the wind

05:42:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is also very easy to squish a cockroach.

05:42:25 mircea_popescu: atmosphere already supplies most of the squishing.

05:42:38 asciilifeform: lol

05:43:14 asciilifeform: haha, it finally croaked

05:43:19 asciilifeform: 750 was a bit much.

05:43:32 *: asciilifeform puts the traditional turd back on

05:43:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to be clear, did you stop the original thing again to run a something else ?

05:43:45 asciilifeform: yes

05:43:50 mircea_popescu: yeah srsly, just buy another box if you can't stop fucking with it

05:43:54 mircea_popescu: and let the thing just run unmolested.

05:44:00 asciilifeform: 2nd box came finally.

05:46:55 mircea_popescu: decimation: why don't these kind of people with a brain just leave the country? <<< i dunno decimation. why don't they ?

05:49:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: if you were planning to kill someone, would you helpfully tell him first ? << that's not the point. in a normal society, the threat is a fundamental tool to hierarchy building.

05:50:10 asciilifeform: -credible- thread.

05:50:12 asciilifeform: *threat

05:50:13 mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,

05:50:21 mircea_popescu: and every citizen linked to it to the detriment of all else.

05:50:27 mircea_popescu: no, not credible. a threat at all.

05:50:43 mircea_popescu: it works on fundamental structures of the hominid brain, much like flirting makes the girl wet.

05:51:36 mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.

05:51:59 asciilifeform: this is a very sharp observation, but is it unique to the modern state?

05:52:11 mircea_popescu: well, that quickly gets iffy.

05:52:21 asciilifeform: what of ancient despotisms, with the public impaler, etc. - did not want to be at the stellar configuration center ?

05:52:31 mircea_popescu: nah, no mechanised ways to handle it,

05:52:48 mircea_popescu: the computer has a lot to do with this, it's a quantum leap in the possibilities of bureaucracy.

05:52:51 asciilifeform: the khan rides from town to town, has squad in tow with stake

05:53:03 asciilifeform: or, ivan iv, with cauldrons/oil

05:53:08 asciilifeform: worked beautifully

05:53:20 mircea_popescu: if it worked, more by accident than anything.

05:53:39 mircea_popescu: think of it this way : most russian peasants as late as 1800 had never seen the czar.

05:53:48 mircea_popescu: every last us residing cockroach has seen obama THIS WEEK

05:53:52 asciilifeform: well yes

05:53:56 mircea_popescu: well then.

05:54:04 asciilifeform: but the basic dread of the state, by peasant, is similar

05:54:13 mircea_popescu: no.

05:54:24 mircea_popescu: the peasant did not fear the czar will come and fuck his daughter.

05:54:31 mircea_popescu: the peasant loved the czar specifically for this reason.

05:55:14 asciilifeform: more of a 'good cop / bad cop' symbiosis b/w king and next level of org chart down

05:55:20 ben_vulpes: good evening!

05:55:32 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes!

05:55:38 ben_vulpes: hello sir!

05:55:42 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform how are you?

05:55:57 asciilifeform: feeling very much dirtied by the dirt

05:56:01 asciilifeform: see log.

05:56:03 ben_vulpes: it is so very filthy

05:56:14 mircea_popescu: there's some lovely mud down here!

05:56:14 ben_vulpes: console yourself with the reality that life is a filthy entropic process

05:56:21 ben_vulpes: wallo!

05:56:24 ben_vulpes: wallow*!

05:56:31 asciilifeform: the one takeaway is that the cause of oomkill damnation in 0.5.3 can no longer be regarded as mysterious

05:56:32 mircea_popescu: or with the thought that you were never filthier than the day you were born.

05:56:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform causes.

05:56:52 asciilifeform: aha

05:57:02 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: dunno i think i've been covered in both more shit and more blood than on that day

05:57:14 mats: kakobrekla: where can i find information on bitbet api?

05:57:26 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: orphans pool?

05:57:39 asciilifeform: identifiable crock o'shit; arguably an advance over the entirely enigmatic sort

05:57:42 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha.

05:57:43 ben_vulpes: <jurov> [] i'll say more later << tenterhooks am i on

05:58:45 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes as a body % ?

05:59:02 kakobrekla: there is an api?

05:59:03 ben_vulpes: absolute terms

05:59:13 mircea_popescu: absolutism's for the birds.

05:59:14 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] ^ condemned to pay infinite fine, and to use only microshit << i don't see the m$ requirement

05:59:17 ben_vulpes: you're a bird!

05:59:18 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla was there some json ?

05:59:24 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pgs. 4-5

05:59:30 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: implicit.

05:59:37 kakobrekla: well that hardly counts as api

05:59:50 mircea_popescu: yes but what were they ?

05:59:53 ben_vulpes: and that hardly counts as a requirement

05:59:54 kakobrekla: mats try adding "?json" at end of url and see if anything happens

06:00:16 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the wretch was ordered to use only systems fully compatible with traditional usg spyware used on such occasions

06:00:18 mircea_popescu: mats and on top of that, you can reuse addresses for as long as the bet didn't close.

06:00:31 ben_vulpes: anyways, mircea_popescu, relativism is for the birds.

06:01:08 mircea_popescu: no quantum computing for you. copme back, 1????????? year

06:01:36 mats: cool. rewriting the code for bitbet audit so it'll be worthy of publication this year.

06:01:54 mats: makes me expendable, but hey.

06:01:57 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: aha. << am i on the right track or did i skim logs in too light of detail

06:02:10 ben_vulpes: mats: today you automate, tomorrow you order the automation

06:02:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998077

06:02:19 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:09:29; asciilifeform: i just began live-fire test of the first really dangerous patch

06:02:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1500 @ 0.0009242 = 1.3863 BTC [+] {3}

06:02:36 ben_vulpes: oh fuck yes

06:02:51 kakobrekla: mats if you plan on hitting bb hard which i dont mind i suggest i add your ip to whitelist

06:03:07 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998091 << danielpbarron i require details of this assasination

06:03:07 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:21:43; danielpbarron: that assassin thing was the best part of the whole week, besides poker of course

06:04:09 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998118 << constant refrain in fiatcorp: "no billing for poops! this isn't accenture."

06:04:09 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:31:31; mircea_popescu: "hey, do you suppose this is work ?"

06:04:16 mircea_popescu: only 554 lines ? by 6am ? WTF SRSLY GUISE

06:05:10 ben_vulpes: yeah i can sort of almost keep up even with my mom coming over with multiple bottles of bubbles

06:05:15 ben_vulpes: it's pathetic i tell ya

06:05:18 mats: kakobrekla: nah, you won't even notice it

06:05:43 kakobrekla: i certainly wont, but you might. anyway, i go.

06:05:45 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998143 << for srs, asciilifeform. you'll want proofs of correctness and haskell-grade type systems next.

06:05:45 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:35:15; mircea_popescu: welcome the filth that is practical bitcoin into your heart, ascii

06:05:51 mats: thanks.

06:09:03 ben_vulpes: anyways asciilifeform how does the backported orphan-pruning situation handle the full tree?

06:09:14 ben_vulpes: omg it strikes me that there isn't a blocktree visualizer that i'm aware of

06:09:29 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'orphan blocks' in question have nothing whatsoever to do with the usual definition

06:09:39 ben_vulpes: what praytell then are they?

06:09:50 asciilifeform: they are simply blocks received hopelessly out of order

06:09:51 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] felipelalli: asciilifeform: your engine is pretty smart, thank you. :) <<< mmm win :D << once again i get no credit for the setup

06:09:58 *: ben_vulpes throws up his hands

06:10:03 asciilifeform: that is, anything that sails in for which you don't have an immediate ancestory

06:10:07 asciilifeform: *ancestor

06:10:10 ben_vulpes: right

06:10:20 ben_vulpes: should blockchain dl be performed sequentially?

06:10:36 asciilifeform: you can't do anything with them, except a) discard b) store in hope of gluing the chain together later

06:10:46 asciilifeform: classical bitcoind is all (b) and no (a)

06:10:50 asciilifeform: never, ever (a)

06:11:00 asciilifeform: thus it is doomed to die after snarfing up sufficiently many of these.

06:11:04 ben_vulpes: i guess the subquestion would be is b) even practical

06:11:13 ben_vulpes: doomed << well, question answered

06:11:24 asciilifeform: so it isn't a memory leak in the traditional sense

06:11:31 ben_vulpes: okay but to play devils advocate for a moment theoy could be dumped into the db were it used sanely

06:11:36 ben_vulpes: they*

06:11:41 asciilifeform: merely toilet that is never flushed, but continuously shat in

06:11:59 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you store these, anywhere, you set yourself up for shitburial

06:12:02 ben_vulpes: you and your poo metaphors

06:12:07 asciilifeform: since by definition there is no way to verify these blocks

06:12:12 asciilifeform: lacking an antecedent

06:12:27 asciilifeform: dr. evil can come and feed you until you burst.

06:12:31 ben_vulpes: no, i get it

06:12:58 ben_vulpes: i also appreciate your willingness to beat sense into my skull.

06:13:00 asciilifeform: and if, presently, 'burst' just means oomkill,

06:13:09 asciilifeform: if disk is involved he can now have you grind to a permanent halt

06:13:25 ben_vulpes: jesus fuck leave it as an exercise for once

06:13:29 asciilifeform: lol

06:14:36 BingoBoingo: !b 1

06:14:38 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/386XWB2.txt )

06:14:52 BingoBoingo: Too many lulz to number right

06:15:23 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] mike_c: or anywhere else afaik. << http://www.listafirme.ro/polimedia-srl-22530016/ << well that's damned interesting

06:15:24 assbot: SC POLIMEDIA SRL din Dumbravita Str. Szentes 7a, CUI 22530016 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HoQUoD )

06:21:42 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] asciilifeform as i said before, it's a kudge to fix another kludge. we don't really wnat any of it. << what was the first kludge?

06:22:02 asciilifeform: 'inv'

06:22:41 asciilifeform: i.e. nodes barf blocks at one another without any real logic

06:22:59 asciilifeform: mr s. did not know 'gossip protocol'.

06:23:03 asciilifeform: did not like mathematics.

06:24:08 ben_vulpes: hm.

06:24:29 ben_vulpes: yeah, that's a steamer.

06:26:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28464 @ 0.00041111 = 11.7018 BTC [-]

06:26:52 ben_vulpes: so what's the plan? backport the magic 750 or discard all ahistoric blocks?

06:27:09 asciilifeform: i backported it. horrendous ugly.

06:27:32 asciilifeform: if you discard all of them - never syncs.

06:27:42 asciilifeform: (mike_c tried it)

06:29:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu appears to favour releasing the thing sitting now on my desk - a that continuously reboots

06:29:51 asciilifeform: (and slowly grinds to a halt prior to doing so)

06:29:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00040671 = 12.1403 BTC [-] {2}

06:30:01 asciilifeform: approx. every 20 min.

06:30:13 asciilifeform: (present height - 183172)

06:30:51 ben_vulpes: brutal.

06:31:03 ben_vulpes: how fast does that number go up?

06:31:18 asciilifeform: right now, ~45 sec. / block

06:31:36 asciilifeform: varies.

06:32:16 asciilifeform: if you recall, bitcoin is not 'bittorrent' and does not make use of the multitude of nodes known to it at a given moment for fetching the blockchain

06:32:25 asciilifeform: instead, it locks onto one particular peer

06:32:38 asciilifeform: and snarfs from him, until it doesn't

06:32:41 asciilifeform: then picks another.

06:32:48 ben_vulpes: myeah.

06:33:06 ben_vulpes: something tells me that block downloading and peer selection is an important thing to look at in the next few arbitrary time units.

06:33:45 ben_vulpes: that something being a certain animated unicode set

06:34:16 asciilifeform: block downloading is almost certainly fated to be 'embraced and extended' by a sane implementation

06:34:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im just in favour of actually testing

06:34:31 asciilifeform: (negotiate torrent-like loader, if can do - do; if cannot - fallback to classic)

06:34:35 mircea_popescu: let it run, see what actualy happens

06:34:42 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: grinder is grinding.

06:34:53 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: kinda what i'm thinking

06:35:05 ben_vulpes: anyways, i'm off for the eve.

06:35:09 ben_vulpes: my thanks for your valuable insights.

06:35:17 *: asciilifeform to bed

06:35:24 mircea_popescu: big fucken deal, if product ends up being "spend $12 and three hours of your time following these instructions. if you have prior chain, you have node right off. if not, you have node in a month"

06:36:10 asciilifeform: if converges >>> then just as mircea_popescu said.

06:44:42 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> did not like mathematics. << this guy is a cryptologist that didn't like coding or math.

06:44:45 mircea_popescu: very strange beast.

06:45:26 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> something tells me that block downloading and peer selection is an important thing to look at in the next few arbitrary time units. << that something is athena riding a flaming shield.

06:46:11 thestringpuller: ^- doesn't she do that already?

06:51:46 mircea_popescu: a) fredrik de boer is a choad ; b) the left can't "win". because it's stupid. a bunch of frogs in a lake can win just as much. wtf can the terminally retarded gonna "win" ?

07:04:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25126 @ 0.00041096 = 10.3258 BTC [+]

07:20:26 mats: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/29/hipster-churches-sillicon-valley-evangelical-new-home

07:20:27 assbot: Hipster churches in Silicon Valley: evangelicalism's unlikely new home | US news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1JSe7xa )

07:24:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57700 @ 0.00043445 = 25.0678 BTC [+] {2}

07:29:52 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 4546 @ 0.00095999 = 4.3641 BTC [+] {4}

07:30:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2543 @ 0.00097554 = 2.4808 BTC [+] {6}

07:40:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00043467 = 1.8256 BTC [+]

07:59:33 cazalla: well that was short lived.. "you have been banned from posting to /r/Buttcoin"

08:02:57 fluffypony: lol

08:07:43 punkman: but... how? http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/01/itunes-connect-bug-logs-developers-into-other-developers-accounts-at-random/

08:07:44 assbot: iTunes Connect bug logs developers in to other developers’ accounts at random [Updated] | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CShGBz )

08:09:38 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/where-did-your-years-go/

08:14:31 punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8hdv99IEAA1ZUs.png

08:14:32 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CSiO8p )

08:17:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00043467 = 5.1726 BTC [+]

08:18:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00043498 = 15.5723 BTC [+]

08:31:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24574 @ 0.00041751 = 10.2599 BTC [-] {2}

08:41:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17526 @ 0.00041709 = 7.3099 BTC [-]

08:59:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24764 @ 0.00043404 = 10.7486 BTC [+] {2}

09:09:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00044157 = 14.2186 BTC [+] {2}

09:54:17 punkman: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/feds-treasure-hunter-eluded-police-cash-tradecraft

09:54:18 assbot: Feds: Treasure hunter eluded police with cash, tradecraft | CNS News ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpoE4F )

09:54:22 punkman: !up badon

09:54:33 badon: hi punkman

09:54:42 punkman: hola

10:27:01 jurov: <mircea_popescu> big fucken deal, if product ends up being "spend $12 and ...". you know this does not match expectations of general public

10:27:32 jurov: for $12 they expect something that just works and it isn't worth waiting a month for to be done

10:28:03 jurov: if you want them to wait through all the oom plodding, make them pay $300

10:30:22 jurov: also, for all the aspies having such "bad engineering" just feels unacceptable at any price

11:07:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35850 @ 0.00041996 = 15.0556 BTC [-]

11:47:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56900 @ 0.00041752 = 23.7569 BTC [-] {2}

12:10:59 danielpbarron: ben_vulpes> ..i require details of this assasination << i paid someone $5 to put on on the list, everyone on the list gets assigned a target, the object is to squirt your victim with a water-gun without any witnesses, you get $5 back per kill

12:12:57 danielpbarron: it took me the whole week just to figure out who my victim was, and i spent most of saturday stalking him at his campsite, finally got right as he was stepping out of his camper, his daughter heard it happen but nobody saw me

12:14:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32673 @ 0.00042209 = 13.7909 BTC [+]

12:17:17 punkman: http://unmonastery-wiki.mirelsol.org/doku.php?id=book_of_mistakes:working_texts:mist_200_year_plan

12:17:18 assbot: book_of_mistakes:working_texts:mist_200_year_plan [unMonastery wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1ETzpId )

12:40:10 jurov: punkman wtf?

12:42:31 jurov: and i got this scam email:

12:42:40 jurov: The King of Thailand has been dead since about the end of 2008. The current King of Thailand is a fake one. The Government of Thailand does not dare to announce his death because it will put Thailand in great trouble. The King of Thailand was keen on photography and he has been seen using his outdated Canon G9 camera even as late as 2012. In addition, his double forgot to remove his watch and appeared to be wearing two watches in the public. Thes

12:42:42 jurov: big mistakes.

12:43:03 jurov: Mr. Dimitri Khalezov is an important researcher and witness to the 9/11 event. In fact, he was a nuclear intelligence officer in the former Soviet Union. He testifies that WTC 1, 2 and 7 were demolished by three underground thermonuclear devices during the 9/11 event. As a matter of fact, there were large cavities found at ground zero (point of nuclear explosion in all English dictionaries printed prior to 2002) and tens of thousands of first

12:43:04 jurov: responders and local Manhattan residents have suffered from cancers as a result of exposure to this radiation.

12:43:23 jurov: sprinkled with clickbaits

12:46:42 jurov: ;;seen Chaang-Noi

12:46:43 gribble: Chaang-Noi was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 50 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 47 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Chaang-Noi> might have to sue em

12:46:49 jurov: ;;seen goat

12:46:49 gribble: I have not seen goat.

12:49:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00041729 = 5.55 BTC [-]

12:53:59 punkman: jurov, dunno some kind of commune-hackerspace in italy

12:58:09 punkman: http://unmonastery.org/

12:58:10 assbot: unMonastery ... ( http://bit.ly/1ye0Yar )

13:38:36 chetty: I am curious, Do female suicide bomber have to be escorted by a male relative?

13:54:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40950 @ 0.00042352 = 17.3431 BTC [+] {2}

14:03:17 davout: "Error(473): #bitcoin-lizards Cannot join channel (+i) - you must be invited" <<< lol wtf

14:33:06 nubbins`: hi

14:33:46 nubbins`: kakobrekla is it possible for assbot's OTP urls to be predictable (i.e. http://w.b-a.link/otp/MY-FINGERPRINT)?

14:33:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cjjgh5 )

14:33:59 nubbins`: dat inability to create simple bash script, etc

14:34:38 nubbins`: cazalla tell us more about your web of hate

14:34:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9411 @ 0.00042629 = 4.0118 BTC [+]

14:35:01 nubbins`: is there anyone here who hasn't made the local news for threatening people? o.O

14:35:48 danielpbarron: http://w.b-a.link/otps/nubbins%60/last

14:37:21 danielpbarron: coindesk's redditnote piece is exactly the same number of words as mine if you strip out the quotes and the last line about his former job (which i probably should have included in mine); but theirs has less characters than mine

14:42:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3176 @ 0.0009207 = 2.9241 BTC [-] {8}

14:47:33 kakobrekla: nubbins` what danielpbarron said

14:47:54 davout: ^neat-o

15:03:53 davout: yhwh_: your IP showed on join

15:17:14 fluffypony: hah hah

15:17:16 fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/2u6k9u/im_a_dominatrix_and_i_was_supposed_to_be_whipping/

15:17:18 assbot: I'm a dominatrix and I was supposed to be whipping a blonde client...but instead I whipped a brunette... : funny ... ( http://bit.ly/1CTsxve )

15:19:40 mircea_popescu: lol

15:23:41 mircea_popescu: !up JodaZ

15:24:04 davout: JodaZ: o hey

15:24:13 JodaZ: can i advertise for sale here once?

15:24:29 mircea_popescu: you can do anything once.

15:24:39 JodaZ: :)

15:24:42 davout: JodaZ: -> #bitcoin-otc

15:24:56 mircea_popescu: but yeah, nobody cares, just don't repeat yourself.

15:25:49 mircea_popescu: cazalla: well that was short lived.. "you have been banned from posting to /r/Buttcoin" << what sort of low quality shilling have you been engaging in!

15:26:31 mircea_popescu: jurov: if you want them to wait through all the oom plodding, make them pay $300 << in the immortal words of baal (quite literally) : we shall take your position into consideration.

15:27:04 mircea_popescu: (the immortal words in question : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oW_rEi8X4Y )

15:27:06 assbot: Diablo 2★The Search for Baal Cinematic★[Original]Official Diablo II[D2 Cut Scene] Trailer - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/15PhBll )

15:31:38 mircea_popescu: chetty: I am curious, Do female suicide bomber have to be escorted by a male relative? << lmao good one.

15:32:43 danielpbarron: you play d2?

15:33:14 mircea_popescu: sure.

15:33:19 mircea_popescu: had a kickass soceress

15:33:33 mircea_popescu: before they came up with bs teleporting gear for paladins and whatnot

15:34:15 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: dat inability to create simple bash script, etc << dat unreading of teh logs. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2015#980456

15:34:15 assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 16:26:57; kakobrekla: ;;later tell ben_vulpes as requested, json; http://w.b-a.link/user/ben_vulpes/json and http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/kakobrekla/json

15:34:21 danielpbarron: i had a kickass MF barbarian

15:34:32 mircea_popescu: sorcs could really only be frost

15:34:37 mircea_popescu: sadly. i liked teh hydra in d1 a lot.

15:34:41 nubbins`: how could i have missed it

15:34:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` because the log is so incredibly fucking densely packed.

15:35:13 nubbins`: no kidding, hey?

15:35:20 nubbins`: oh, hbd to me

15:35:26 nubbins`: this is my jesus year

15:35:32 danielpbarron: i liked the necromancer but he wasn't very powerful

15:35:54 mircea_popescu: "When Tommy Thompson and his longtime companion did leave the Florida hotel room, usually alone and her more than him, they would use a combination of buses, taxis and walking around to shake anyone who might be tailing them."

15:35:59 mircea_popescu: for the record that guy was decent.

15:36:01 nubbins`: kakobrekla +1 top kak

15:36:18 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yeah i liked him too, but yeah, not useful in pvp

15:37:30 davout: i kinda ragequit d2 after my hardcore javazon died...

15:37:40 danielpbarron: LOL

15:37:54 davout: my alt+f4 wasn't swift enough

15:38:10 danielpbarron: i quit when a friend of mine got all my expensive MF gear trade hacked while using my account

15:38:37 mircea_popescu: davout bitch to play, the javazon

15:38:59 davout: such lag in cow-level

15:39:15 davout: diablo 1 was best diablo

15:39:19 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron in retrospect, the "expensive" gear of the d2 era was a good joke. 1k would have decked you and alts.

15:39:22 mircea_popescu: these days... heh.

15:40:00 mircea_popescu: nubbins`: is there anyone here who hasn't made the local news for threatening people? o.O << me, for one.

15:40:07 danielpbarron: expensive in SOJ terms, not dollar terms; i didn't have credit cards back then

15:40:25 nubbins`: well, you know how to threaten people the right way, obv

15:40:49 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron oh lol teh stone of jordan

15:41:01 mircea_popescu: fucking idiot blizzard can't make an economy.

15:49:12 adlai: does assbot ever pick up ratings left with gribble after the wotfork?

15:49:50 PeterL: I think you have to add ratings to both wots now

15:50:21 mircea_popescu: adlai ideally a way to crossover is being developed, but practically i've not heard anything from nanotube for a week or so.

15:51:18 adlai: shouldn't it be as simple as, every rating has to contain a signature of the rating data, and then gribble and assbot can just spider eachother all day long?

15:51:35 adlai: and any other wots that spring up

15:51:46 adlai: wot-bots. the web itself would grow larger than any individual bot.

15:52:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15850 @ 0.00042214 = 6.6909 BTC [-]

15:52:28 mircea_popescu: ideally.

15:52:30 davout: http://lyle.smu.edu/~tylerm/fc15.pdf

15:52:32 assbot: 404 Error: Lyle Page Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/15Pm8Em )

15:52:51 davout: « There’s No Free Lunch, Even Using Bitcoin: Tracking the Popularity and Profits of Virtual Currency Scams »

15:53:13 mircea_popescu: meh pdf. who's the author ?

15:53:30 davout: "We manually inspected all services on the list to identify only those operations established with fraudulent intent. For instance, we exclude Hashfast, a mining company that recently filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, as well as losses from Mt. Gox, a bitcoin exchange that failed."

15:53:56 davout: i stahped there

15:54:03 adlai: http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=3f1cb5e9&page=1

15:54:03 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/15PmqLt )

15:54:28 adlai: (pdf processed server-side, cloud magic)

15:55:07 PeterL: davout: they think they can differentiate between fraudulent intent and incompetence?

15:55:18 davout: looks like it

15:56:06 adlai: this viewer thingy is cool, you can link straight to the tl;dr: http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=3f1cb5e9&page=15

15:56:07 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CjtIFf )

16:03:03 mircea_popescu: PeterL derps that know about bitcoin about exactly the way they know what's best for africa.

16:03:11 mircea_popescu: never left chelmsford.

16:04:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00042647 = 5.5441 BTC [+] {3}

16:05:24 jurov: mircea_popescu: jurov: ...... immortal words of baal (quite literally) : we shall take your position into consideration. << seems death threats are en vogue recently

16:06:11 mircea_popescu: lol didn't mean it like that

16:06:17 mircea_popescu: twas suppost to be funny.

16:06:29 fluffypony: BITCOIN WILL SAVE AFRICA!

16:07:06 fluffypony: who needs water or clothing or food when you're a starving African child that has BITCOIN!

16:07:21 jurov: mircea i know :) just had a double take on the (quite literally) part

16:07:55 mircea_popescu: well baal is immortal.

16:08:33 mircea_popescu: so i had a pile of sour cherries for breakfast

16:08:42 mircea_popescu: and now it looks like i'm going to have a chocolate cake snack.,

16:08:49 PeterL: literally or figuratively?

16:08:54 mircea_popescu: if i die let it be known i blame the government

16:08:56 mircea_popescu: literally.

16:09:03 mircea_popescu: !up jborkl

16:09:07 jborkl: Been stuck up the airport runway for over an hour :(

16:09:20 jborkl: The peeps are restless!!

16:10:03 mircea_popescu: stand up and announce "This has now been converted into a nudist flight. Everyone please remove all items of clothings. Thank you."

16:10:46 ben_vulpes: i'm making a bacon and caramelized onion omlette

16:11:01 pete_dushenski: jborkl: westerners are always restless

16:11:16 mircea_popescu: !up jborkl

16:11:24 jborkl: No word, just stuck

16:11:29 pete_dushenski: which is why they love smartphones that advertise "turn downtime into uptime"

16:11:42 davout: for before take-off enjoyment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK5n5bQW8FE

16:11:43 assbot: le cochon et le canard - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/15Pq343 )

16:11:48 pete_dushenski: when they just use them to flip through buzzfeed or some such

16:12:09 jborkl: Austin to Denver on united

16:12:38 PeterL: spend more time doing useless shit and you won't have to think about how worthless you are

16:12:56 jborkl: Maybe they found out I have bitcoin on me

16:13:02 jborkl: Lol

16:13:05 pete_dushenski: davout: lmao

16:13:13 mircea_popescu: davout the note on that video suggests romanian origin.

16:13:19 mircea_popescu: and they seem to me to be romanian francophones

16:13:27 PeterL: how does one have bitcoin on them?

16:13:34 jborkl: Joke joke

16:13:36 pete_dushenski: jborkl: impossibru to have the clouds on you ;/

16:13:54 PeterL: you have a private key tatoo?

16:14:32 mircea_popescu: so the man has a little bullet. stop hussling him!

16:16:26 jborkl: What , hehe I missed something ?

16:16:32 pete_dushenski: PeterL: sorta making the efforts of using a smartphone to always be connected quite counter-productive to the intended objective

16:17:35 PeterL: whose intended objective?

16:17:35 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: seems like yesterday turned into national "let's translate romanian poker articles into engrish" day

16:17:42 pete_dushenski: quelle fun :D

16:17:48 mircea_popescu: lol

16:17:56 mircea_popescu: hard huh.

16:18:04 pete_dushenski: lol not easy

16:18:27 pete_dushenski: but perfectly enjoyable

16:18:50 pete_dushenski: the ol' noodle enjoyed the challenge

16:20:46 asciilifeform: 185063.

16:21:38 mircea_popescu: !s from:asciilifeform

16:21:39 assbot: 43267 results for 'from:asciilifeform' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform

16:21:53 jborkl: Something broke, they want to override it and see how that works out

16:22:23 jborkl: So, see ya laters!!

16:22:26 mircea_popescu: 30-01-2015 06:30:13 <asciilifeform> (present height - 183172) so it made < 2k in the past 10 hours ?

16:22:35 asciilifeform: aha

16:22:55 PeterL: was it running that whole time?

16:23:07 asciilifeform: PeterL: in the sense of being switched on - yes

16:23:11 asciilifeform: !s oomkill

16:23:12 assbot: 17 results for 'oomkill' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=oomkill

16:23:12 mircea_popescu: 2k > 100.

16:23:32 danielpbarron: lol

16:23:41 asciilifeform: it's connected to the wild net (as opposed to existing node, which would be a more deterministic, if less realistic, test)

16:23:47 asciilifeform: so very much luck of the draw.

16:23:56 mircea_popescu: quite.

16:24:02 mircea_popescu: (something the oomkills help, not hinder)

16:24:17 mircea_popescu: ie, get connected to9 shitty node, die faster. it's quite evolutionary.

16:24:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if this worked at all well, it'd be synched by now.

16:25:17 mircea_popescu: somehow i suspect that if you had to design say a heron, it'd look a lot less like nature's variant and a lot more like an aircraft carrier

16:25:46 TomServo: lol

16:25:46 asciilifeform: herons don't crash.

16:25:57 mircea_popescu: herons crash all the fucking time.

16:32:37 davout: heron airprox

16:33:25 davout: "heron, go away, this is a class A airspace"

16:39:07 mircea_popescu: !up nokia

16:41:10 pete_dushenski: nokia... i just bought my first one in 15 years this week

16:41:19 pete_dushenski: waiting for the nanosim adapter to arrive

16:41:34 pete_dushenski: then experiment unsmartphone commences!

16:41:57 kakobrekla: which one

16:42:42 pete_dushenski: blu tank ii they call it

16:43:20 pete_dushenski: http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00O5EUBSI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

16:43:22 assbot: BLU Tank II T193 Unlocked GSM Dual-SIM Cell Phone with Camera and 1900 mAh Big Battery-Retail Packaging-Black Blue: Amazon.ca: Cell Phones & Accessories ... ( http://bit.ly/1A74oRT )

16:43:23 nokia: nokias are tanks

16:44:01 pete_dushenski: nokia: in another time, yes. not sure about the new touchy ones

16:44:06 kakobrekla: dunno, last nail hammering nokia i had was 3210

16:44:15 kakobrekla: imo build quality only went down from there

16:44:32 pete_dushenski: sorta like old mercs were panzers, the new ones are ospreys

16:45:41 mircea_popescu: i kinda agree, they don't make the bricks like they used to in the 90s

16:46:47 mats: 11:41:34 <+pete_dushenski> then experiment unsmartphone commences! << me too. bought a motorola C115 so i can play with osmocomBB

16:46:57 pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: i think the 3310 was my first phone

16:46:57 ben_vulpes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_StarTAC << one of my favorite phones ever

16:46:59 assbot: Motorola StarTAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1A75kpC )

16:46:59 nokia: anyone do the *3001#12345 trick with the nokias?

16:47:08 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: yes!

16:47:32 kakobrekla: heres my first phone i got as a kid, also indestructible ; http://itm.siol.net/_m/media/Sagem/39/RC_815_large_363.jpg

16:47:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1A75uNM )

16:47:43 mats: http://bb.osmocom.org/trac << foss baseband firmware

16:47:44 assbot: OsmocomBB ... ( http://bit.ly/1A75tt3 )

16:47:53 pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: colourful :D

16:47:58 kakobrekla: mhm :D

16:48:36 pete_dushenski: well i intend to test nokia's latest to see how it stacks up against my rose-tinted memories

16:49:48 kakobrekla: the thing with the phone was, when you were sending sms you had to type in the destination phone number from your head, no way to use saved entries.

16:50:00 kakobrekla: good for memory!

16:51:05 pete_dushenski: if only we could teach 0.5.3 to be so good with memory

16:53:03 davout: lol

16:56:22 pete_dushenski: !b 4

16:56:22 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0JPAJQQ.txt )

17:19:04 asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000038.html

17:19:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yUtLEL )

17:20:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes ^ turd from last night's thread

17:20:16 asciilifeform: placed on www for the record.

17:24:58 mircea_popescu: "Keeping in mind that actual stalking has never been dealt with in any significant way ever, the desire of a few female writers to curb online anonymity wouldn't be enough to get an @ mention, except that this happens to coincide with what the media wants, and now we have the two vectors summing to form a public health crisis. "Cyberbullying is a huge problem!" Yes, but not because it is hurtful, HA! no one cares about

17:24:58 mircea_popescu: your feelings-- but because criticism makes women want to be more private-- and the privacy of the women is bad. The women have to be online, they do most of the clicking and receive most of the clicks. Anonymous cyberbullying is a barrier to increasing consumption, it's gotta go."

17:25:21 mircea_popescu: in retrospect this is the best discussion of this ever-returning zombie of "cyberbullying" i ever read.

17:26:48 BingoBoingo: !b 3

17:26:49 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0SCDC38.txt )

17:27:51 mircea_popescu: "If Hess has made you wonder, hmm, maybe unrestricted anonymity is bad because it gives trolls too much power, then the system has successfully used her for its true purpose: brand it as bad, to you. She is unwittingly teaching the demo of this article, e.g. women in their 20s with no actual power looking to establish themselves, who are the very people who should embrace anonymity, not to want this: only rapists and t

17:27:51 mircea_popescu: oo-weak-to-try rapists want to be anonymous. Smart women write clickable articles about their sexuality for nothing, because what good are you if you can't make someone else money? Interesting to observe that the article's single suggested solution to cyberharassment is to reframe a criminal problem into a civil rights issue using a logic so preposterously adolescent that if you laid this on your Dad when you were 16 h

17:27:52 mircea_popescu: e'd backhand slap you right out of the glee club: "it discourages women from writing and earning a living online." Earning a living? From who, Gawker? Most of the women writing on the internet are writing for someone else who pays them next to nothing. None of them control the capital, none of them get paid 1/1000 of what they bring in for the media company. You know what they do get? They get to be valued by work, and

17:27:57 mircea_popescu: in gratitude they are going to the front lines to fight for the media company's right to pay them less."

17:28:10 mircea_popescu: this is quite exactly it, and it's not limited to poorly educated, insufficiently fucked, infantilized 20something wymyn.

17:28:45 mircea_popescu: the mirror-image infantilized 20something bois are idem fighting for paul graham's right to pay them nothing while turning them into a strange sort of pulp fiction's gimp

17:29:55 mircea_popescu: the funniest thing in all of this isn't exactly the horde of children who don't understand how the fuck they were tricked exactly. the funniest thing is the plethora of articles about how "apple could buy russia"

17:30:10 mircea_popescu: it's going to get even funnier once they actually try.

17:30:15 asciilifeform: why not 'buy' whole planet. what, not enough ink in printer ?

17:30:43 mircea_popescu: no but you know, the fumes of confused teenagers are going to somehow coallesce into moving as much as a hair of actual matter. ANY DAY NOW

17:31:14 mircea_popescu: i could be sitting in a parisian cafe cca 1815 and lol the same way for the same reasons at the same people

17:31:17 mircea_popescu: this, they call progress.

17:34:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49050 @ 0.00041326 = 20.2704 BTC [-] {3}

17:44:13 asciilifeform: fumes of confused teenagers are going to somehow coallesce into moving << 'dog barks, caravan moves'

18:06:38 BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats

18:06:44 gribble: Current Blocks: 341191 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 1528 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 16 hours, 26 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 45460765013.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 10.14684

18:09:01 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: thank you sir

18:10:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49615 @ 0.00041894 = 20.7857 BTC [+]

18:11:02 ben_vulpes: i can't believe that people want to fuck around with sidechains and altcoins when there's interesting work to be done in improving how the satoshi codebase handles block downloads

18:11:34 ben_vulpes: this "orphans" routine though, i must say i love it.

18:11:47 ben_vulpes: 'tis another dagger in my belt.

18:12:45 adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2015#997393 << dat %

18:12:45 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 19:26:09; gribble: Current Blocks: 341060 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 1659 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47714824514.9 | Estimated Percent Change: 15.60819

18:15:04 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that was cribbed almost wholesale from evil bitcoind

18:21:08 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the problem is that people are insulated from reality (least it hurts their feelings) and so they are also insulated from everythning interesting, and in the end their own life.

18:21:16 mats: hard work is hard. totes believable.

18:21:30 mircea_popescu: right.

18:22:27 mircea_popescu: people interested in actually doing stuff have b-a. everyone else can be "a contributor" (for bois), or "part of the community" (for womyns)

18:22:57 mats: why do any work when you can generate an altcoin from a bootstrap website and watch netflix

18:23:32 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2014#509005

18:23:32 assbot: Logged on 16-02-2014 22:03:29; asciilifeform: obligatory russian drowning joke

18:24:12 mircea_popescu: essentially, because it's fun.

18:24:41 mircea_popescu: "why does the horse run, while the worm can but crawl ? because the horse enjoys to run."

18:30:05 asciilifeform: i can't believe that people want to fuck around with sidechains and altcoins when there's interesting work to be done in improving how the satoshi codebase <<< not only sloth, but avarice, is involved. nobody gets rich from honestly fixing satoshi's bugs

18:30:37 asciilifeform: sc4mz0r1ng? promises riches, at least to the foolish

18:31:39 ben_vulpes: bah wealth

18:31:49 ben_vulpes: la vie, c'est le travaille

18:32:06 asciilifeform: arbeit macht frei.

18:32:12 ben_vulpes: i'll settle for stakes and sucking holes in everyones chest.

18:32:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's beyond short sighted.

18:32:39 mircea_popescu: nobody gets rich from being o'reilly's or Sara Miller McCune's hand puppet.

18:32:52 mircea_popescu: people DO get rich, in the manner of their choice, out of accumulating this sort of capital.

18:33:04 mircea_popescu: linus is rich, in that ~he can do what he pleases~. your definition of rich.

18:33:12 mircea_popescu: so is taleb. so is everyone that DIDN'T join the system.

18:33:15 asciilifeform: except that no one does honest scientific collaboration 'to get rich' specifically.

18:33:31 mircea_popescu: the only poor people are the "rich people" making 500k to 5mn a year to pay for their mortgage and college loans.

18:33:42 asciilifeform: them's chumpers.

18:33:59 mircea_popescu: a sudanese, poor as the dirt hre sits in, still has a chance.

18:34:13 mircea_popescu: antonoderpopo no longer has a chance, because he's dead, because a rich guy killed him.

18:34:16 mircea_popescu: and death is forever.

18:34:36 asciilifeform: zombie may even envy the dead.

18:34:52 mircea_popescu: zombie generally does.

18:35:05 mircea_popescu: which explains why suicide is such a big deal in zombieland.

18:36:26 PeterL: so, I'm reading through the bitcoind code as published by the Foundation,

18:36:43 PeterL: / Some explaining would be appreciated << this comment sounds like something asciilifeform would put in?

18:36:52 asciilifeform: where's this

18:37:07 PeterL: by the COrphan class

18:37:40 mod6: that's an original v0.5.3 comment

18:39:23 mod6: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/main.cpp#L2788

18:39:25 assbot: bitcoin/main.cpp at v0.5.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1CjNmB2 )

18:39:35 asciilifeform: PeterL: also these are not the same orphans!

18:39:54 PeterL: which orphans are these? how many kinds of orphans are there?

18:39:56 mircea_popescu: seriously let's start calling them parentless blocks / pblocks

18:40:02 mircea_popescu: this confusion is counterproductive.

18:40:12 asciilifeform: see last night's thread: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998265

18:40:12 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 06:09:29; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'orphan blocks' in question have nothing whatsoever to do with the usual definition

18:40:17 mircea_popescu: PeterL orphans are short lengths ofchain that were abandoined in favour of a competitor.

18:40:35 mircea_popescu: parentless blocks are blocks which arrived to a node before their parents, and so can't be evaluated for validity (yet)

18:40:46 asciilifeform: my understanding is that the demented name confusion came about because originally these were handled using the same routines.

18:40:53 mircea_popescu: yes.

18:41:05 mircea_popescu: because system engineering is a topping for pizza.

18:41:21 asciilifeform: street pizza.

18:41:31 PeterL: 10000 btc pizza?

18:41:49 asciilifeform: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=street+pizza&defid=6660692

18:41:50 assbot: Urban Dictionary: street pizza ... ( http://bit.ly/1CjNEI3 )

18:42:30 ben_vulpes: mk a contention:

18:42:58 ben_vulpes: "reference node should only keep track of a single chain: the longest discoverable"

18:42:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3235 @ 0.00096678 = 3.1275 BTC [+] {10}

18:43:08 mircea_popescu: how ?

18:43:22 ben_vulpes: that, i do not know.

18:43:22 asciilifeform: the whole process for learning which the 'longest discoverable' is

18:43:39 asciilifeform: requires keeping track of a certain quantity of non-longest.

18:43:43 ben_vulpes: but in keeping around orphan chains, the enemy can pollute ones disk trivially.

18:43:47 mircea_popescu: lol how about "bitcoin should just work" then

18:43:52 asciilifeform: but again, these are the -other- orphans.

18:44:17 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes. which is why the only sane way for bitcoi nnodes to work is gossipd

18:44:20 mircea_popescu: but that is a point for later.

18:44:27 mod6: pblock is probably not a good name, since in most of the code "pblock" is what is denoted for a pointer to a block.

18:44:39 mircea_popescu: ah eys right mod6

18:44:42 ben_vulpes: bastardblocks

18:44:49 mircea_popescu: ?blocks

18:44:55 mircea_popescu: that's obvious and intuitive enough ?

18:45:17 mod6: they really are "orphans", since an orphan is someone with out parents right? so im fine with calling them orphans, i think there is confusion around how these come into existance.

18:45:35 mircea_popescu: except they're not orphan, they're just "not in the presence of their parents"

18:45:37 mats: http://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2015/01/technical-analysis-of-qualys-ghost.html << i'm slow on the draw, but this was a good read.

18:45:39 assbot: lcamtuf's blog: Technical analysis of Qualys' GHOST ... ( http://bit.ly/163qQxZ )

18:45:50 mod6: mircea_popescu: fair point there.

18:46:11 mod6: maybe "disconnected blocks" or something

18:46:18 mircea_popescu: works

18:46:20 kakobrekla: lost i say.

18:46:27 ben_vulpes: hah lols

18:46:29 ben_vulpes: lost

18:46:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that is a point for later << that's a point from last night

18:46:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998303

18:46:42 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 06:22:59; asciilifeform: mr s. did not know 'gossip protocol'.

18:46:53 mod6: kakobrekla: i like that.

18:47:01 pete_dushenski: plus ca change: http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/30/sthennow/

18:47:02 assbot: s/then/now. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/163rcVf )

18:47:34 pete_dushenski: ^that cyberbullying convo was well timed

18:47:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well really it was a point from ever since gossipd was discussed, but w/e, not mature yet.

18:48:56 asciilifeform: 185554.

18:50:56 pete_dushenski: later gang!

18:51:07 mircea_popescu: 500 in 2 hours ?

18:52:16 asciilifeform: aha

18:52:58 mircea_popescu: so at the present rate, done by conference time :D

18:53:07 asciilifeform: not linear.

18:54:50 mircea_popescu: well technically it's improved, over the 200/hour earlier :p

18:56:09 ben_vulpes: https://github.com/diafygi/webrtc-ips << well here's some strange

18:56:10 assbot: diafygi/webrtc-ips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1CjOXGW )

18:56:21 ben_vulpes: https://diafygi.github.io/webrtc-ips/ << and the demo (warning: hostile)

18:56:22 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CjP19y )

18:58:01 jurov: i propose "mislaid blocks" :DDD

18:58:19 mircea_popescu: teh slutblox

19:03:36 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> except they're not orphan, they're just "not in the presence of their parents" << Latchkey Blocks

19:04:15 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski i'll be lucky to get my butt in a miata this decade

19:04:15 gribble: The operation succeeded.

19:05:21 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: webrtc-ips << lol!!

19:06:04 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wanna be hero? post some packet filter rules for this crap

19:06:12 jurov: forlorn, delinquent, remiss, slack, behindhand, belated ...literary english has plenty of words. just dorks know none

19:06:19 asciilifeform: no reason not to chop it off at the wall.

19:06:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13440 @ 0.00042741 = 5.7444 BTC [+] {2}

19:06:33 jurov: whole IT is master, slave, orphan, vorgin, etc.

19:06:37 jurov: *virgin

19:06:47 ben_vulpes: obsessions of the unsexed

19:06:52 mircea_popescu: jurov word.

19:07:11 mircea_popescu: beloated blocks is not bad.

19:07:21 davout: lol jurov

19:07:22 mircea_popescu: sorta like belation causing bloat thing

19:07:42 asciilifeform: bloatsam.

19:07:49 asciilifeform: (as in floatsam)

19:08:02 asciilifeform: or was it flotsam

19:09:03 ben_vulpes: the latter

19:09:08 ben_vulpes: blocksam

19:10:23 mircea_popescu: brock pierce ?

19:11:06 ben_vulpes: any time anyone brings up brock i think of pokemon.

19:11:23 asciilifeform: when someone brings up 'pierce' can't help but think of pederasts

19:11:29 asciilifeform: or rather, russian prison buggery

19:11:49 asciilifeform: which, according to scholars, divides those who have been 'lowered into pederasty' into the 'pierced' and 'unpierced' species

19:12:00 ben_vulpes: 'pierce' << i think fondly of that time in my life when i had several holes in my face

19:12:18 asciilifeform: the former, those who have been ceremonially buggered in the usual sense, the latter - those who have not (or not yet), but have been assigned the caste

19:18:35 asciilifeform: 'getdata... ...can be used to retrieve transactions, but only if they are in the memory pool or relay set - arbitrary access to transactions in the chain is not allowed to avoid having clients start to depend on nodes having full transaction indexes (which modern nodes do not).'

19:18:42 asciilifeform: (from the bitcoin.it www)

19:19:10 *: asciilifeform wonders if anyone else considers this to be lame

19:20:04 ben_vulpes: i.

19:20:14 ben_vulpes: have in fact complained about this in the past.

19:20:17 ben_vulpes: !s getdata

19:20:18 assbot: 3 results for 'getdata' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=getdata

19:23:11 BingoBoingo: Making money in college Illigu

19:23:14 BingoBoingo: http://dailyegyptian.com/western-courier-editor-suspension-adds-to-list-of-student-censorship/

19:23:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dfk9Ur )

19:23:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can be safely snipped.

19:23:51 jurov: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/search?_filestring=&_string=getdata

19:23:51 assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.chicken general search: getdata ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dfker9 )

19:24:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what can be

19:24:30 mircea_popescu: it will cause trouble at some point down the road, because eventually the blockchain will overwhelm the index.

19:24:47 mircea_popescu: however, it can be implemented as rolling window, which is how in point of fact "relay set" works

19:25:23 *: asciilifeform was thinking the opposite - civilized nodes could provide arbitrary tx access

19:25:38 ben_vulpes: hear hear

19:25:51 ben_vulpes: not really the remit of the RI tho.

19:26:27 ben_vulpes: RI, by my understanding: downloads and verifies blockchain; regurgitates blocks on demand; relays transactions.

19:27:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not indefinitely.

19:30:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so long as overhead is O(n) or below, why not

19:31:41 mircea_popescu: i dun think it is.

19:31:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1450 @ 0.00096878 = 1.4047 BTC [+] {3}

19:31:51 asciilifeform: 0.5.3 - certainly not

19:31:56 mircea_popescu: right.

19:32:09 asciilifeform: mathematically - quite achievable

19:32:33 mod6: !rate TomServo 1 Helped me test a script for The Bitcoin Foundation

19:32:33 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/056d17efe8c0cfcf

19:33:05 mod6: !v assbot:mod6.rate.TomServo.1:e69b8f3713a82dde384db1535cb3f7d53b94c207c304be7dc8f77886fc0e8c43

19:33:06 assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for TomServo with note: Helped me test a script for The Bitcoin Foundation

19:35:07 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: undergrads who 'rock the boat' end up 'having problems', one way or another. see also the folks who posted diffs b/w one semester's textbook and next's

19:36:23 asciilifeform: (for non-usa folks: the 'college racket' does not consist merely of tuition and housing that go up ~10%/yr., but also miscellaneous vampirisms like textbooks that stay almost exactly the same but for the exercise set orderings, at 100-400 usd a pop, moving target every semester)

19:36:57 ben_vulpes: i didn't even see the reorderings, asciilifeform

19:37:26 mircea_popescu: you know the one time a smarmy teacher tried to be all american and make the class buy a book we complained to the provost and he nearly got kicked out.

19:37:38 mircea_popescu: apparently growing up in the civilised world has its advantages

19:37:52 mircea_popescu: (it didn't last tho, meanwhile romania joined nato and every college prof is hawking his own dumbass books)

19:41:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56900 @ 0.00042156 = 23.9868 BTC [-] {2}

19:42:08 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: undergrads who 'rock the boat' end up 'having problems', one way or another. see also the folks who posted diffs b/w one semester's textbook and next's << can't say as that was my experience. i rocked the boat constantly and still managed to eke some funding out of the university for harebrained rocket schemes

19:46:04 coderwill: ben_vulpes: hello, apologies, i have been busy for a few days, but noticed your mention the other day about options

19:46:35 ben_vulpes: oh, mostly just trolling you

19:47:47 coderwill: ben_vulpes: the first thing i asked was to see the cap table

19:48:34 coderwill: ben_vulpes: sorry wasn't around to reply

19:49:47 coderwill: so when i asked to see the cap table, was told that no one except investors are allowed to see cap table

19:50:08 coderwill: then what mike_c said was almost exactly what happened afterward, ironically

19:51:23 mircea_popescu: next time tell them "listen bub, i'm not fresh off the turnip truck. you want to hire me on pure salary, it's $1,5mn the first year payable upfront and increasing by 1mn each eyar after that.

19:51:29 mircea_popescu: now go get that cap table."

19:52:15 coderwill: yeah, i thought about that at the time, but then was like, well, i guess i'm getting to work at one of the most well-known wallet providers, that could be good for subsequent opportunities

19:52:32 mircea_popescu: except it's moreover bad.

19:52:45 coderwill: correct, that was a naive thought in many regards

19:52:52 mircea_popescu: well, at least now it's in the logs.

19:53:44 trinque: coderwill: nah man, that "this will at least be good for my resume" thing is just a way of learning to love the pole

19:54:12 mircea_popescu: it's how amanda hess works, at any rate :D

19:54:17 coderwill: haha, it's all good

19:54:43 trinque: everyone in the industry under 30 is a perma-intern

19:55:14 coderwill: i am thankful for the opportunity and it has let me to better places, but definitely not what i was expecting when i came on board

19:55:50 trinque: that said why fight for equity if the businesses wont even be there in a few years

19:56:00 ben_vulpes: yeah fuck equity

19:56:01 trinque: maybe 2 of the 7 I've worked for still exist

19:56:03 ben_vulpes: short the shartups

19:56:12 trinque: one of those is my own

19:56:21 coderwill: at the same time, there are some people i really enjoyed getting to know who i'd be happy to work with again. it's just a few that made it very strange for everyone

19:57:10 coderwill: trinque: agreed, equity is not all it's cracked up to be

19:57:48 trinque: well it's not equity; it's that the companies are largely worthless

19:58:22 trinque: I had looads of shares of the terrible rails startup I was a part of years ago

19:58:41 trinque: company's dead; shares aren't worth one reddit note

19:58:45 mircea_popescu: trinque pushing for equity is an essential tool in evaluating the company.

19:58:55 mircea_popescu: peopel tend to forget that working for a start-up is a LOAN.

19:58:57 coderwill: trinque: reminds me of a quote from @fakegrimlock - https://twitter.com/fakegrimlock/status/487334449089372161

19:58:59 assbot: HOW TO SET SALARY: THERE 99% CHANCE 100% OF YOUR EQUITY WORTH ZERO. NO SKIMP ON PAY IF WANT BEST. http://t.co/gpv43slvlc

19:59:00 trinque: mircea_popescu: oh certainly!

19:59:06 trinque: just commenting on the worthlessness of american startups

19:59:32 mircea_popescu: well the only way to survive is to nmot work for a worthless one.

19:59:47 coderwill: mircea_popescu: i like your idea about working for a startup being a loan

19:59:54 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-meta-problem/

20:00:34 coderwill: mircea_popescu: seems like the ones that think of it that way are far and few between

20:01:23 mircea_popescu: coderwill think of it in sexual terms. "honey let's fuck". "are you going to be around in ten years to raiuse my children ?" "nope" "so i'm loaning you my taxed income in the future ?"

20:02:08 mircea_popescu: traditional employment of the "that's a firm to put 30 years in with" isn't a loan particularly for that reason.

20:02:47 coderwill: haha

20:04:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34734 @ 0.00042959 = 14.9214 BTC [+]

20:06:00 coderwill: it's a bummer people can't be more straight-up with potential hires

20:06:12 trinque: mircea_popescu: seems this state you describe in the article is terminal

20:06:24 mircea_popescu: which one ?

20:06:24 trinque: coderwill: you have to force them to be, and if you can't, why would they?

20:06:27 coderwill: i guess there is a flipside though, which is people wanting everything

20:06:35 trinque: mircea_popescu: the meta problem

20:06:51 trinque: if a person can't reason enough to reason that they'd better improve their reasoning, fucked

20:07:41 ben_vulpes: fucked without external intervention.

20:07:43 trinque: maybe someone external can force them to do otherwise, but they never will

20:07:45 trinque: right

20:07:46 ben_vulpes: hence beatings.

20:08:24 coderwill: trinque: re: hiring, probably best to start small with people you trust almost unconditionally

20:09:21 coderwill: or maybe a better way of saying it, a person who comes to the table thinking "what's in this for us" instead of "what's in this for me"

20:09:35 mircea_popescu: trinque aka d-k as hanbot points out

20:10:06 mircea_popescu: <trinque> maybe someone external can force them to do otherwise, but they never will << main point of slavery.

20:10:14 mircea_popescu: "you'll be eating dogfood off the floor until you can X"

20:10:30 trinque: poking at the roots of the brain directly, read that in another recent article

20:10:43 mircea_popescu: coderwill yes, that and the frankness are the predicates of this place, and why it works, and why qntra will sink gawker and so on.

20:11:05 mircea_popescu: it's just altogether a much better model.

20:11:36 mircea_popescu: it only works for rich, smart people, but then again let gavin have africa, and graham sillycon valley, they'll have fun together.

20:12:42 ben_vulpes: <coderwill> trinque: re: hiring, probably best to start small with people you trust almost unconditionally << i've had decent success hiring friends and their friends.

20:12:58 trinque: ben_vulpes: dat irl wot

20:13:08 ben_vulpes: wots rule everything around me

20:13:40 ben_vulpes: mind you, coderwill "friends" is not the criteria.

20:14:02 coderwill: mircea_popescu: yeah, hope something positive comes out at the end

20:14:04 ben_vulpes: it's more like "dood i know and respect knows and respects this other dood, so i guess i'll give him a whirl".

20:14:21 trinque: ^ requires good stock that knows the meaning of respect

20:14:37 ben_vulpes: tricky, indubitably.

20:16:55 asciilifeform: 185964.

20:17:01 ben_vulpes: as an aside, the whole vesting thing is odd.

20:17:27 ben_vulpes: i've been batting around the notion of a qntra-style stock pool, where stock in the operation would be issued in direct proportion to hours clocked on the project.

20:17:40 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lol!

20:17:45 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why not by the pound ?

20:17:58 asciilifeform: !s which screw

20:17:59 assbot: 16 results for 'which screw' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=which+screw

20:18:10 ben_vulpes: i don't quite know if this is topologically different from an option pool with a vesting schedule, except that it provides some fairness proportionality to the time worked

20:18:18 asciilifeform: try paying the 'which screw' man by the hour.

20:18:33 ben_vulpes: i've no business with "which screw" men.

20:19:00 ben_vulpes: everything we touch gets the shit automated out of it as a precondition of touching it.

20:19:18 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do your men do, the profit from which is at all proportional to the time spent?

20:19:35 asciilifeform: iirc there was programming involved?

20:19:43 ben_vulpes: read, think. occasionally commit a line or two of code.

20:20:11 ben_vulpes: others: read, think, occasionally produce a UI layout.

20:20:21 asciilifeform: and the fella who has to think for two hours to come up with xxxx, should be paid 2x the pay of the 1h one ?

20:20:45 asciilifeform: am i the only one who thinks this is odd

20:20:55 ben_vulpes: the fella who thinks for twice as long is generally not paid nearly what the one who can see it instantly.

20:20:59 ben_vulpes: (is).

20:21:10 asciilifeform: the latter is called 'which screw'

20:21:31 ben_vulpes: you're forcing a metaphor.

20:22:11 ben_vulpes: some read and do (the correct thing) very quickly, and are remunerated in proportion to their time spent and speed at which they do it.

20:22:29 ben_vulpes: this allows the man who only cares to work for 15 hours per week to do so, comfortably, provided he's good at what he does.

20:22:46 asciilifeform: hourly billing, esp. for engineering, always seemed like the worst possible incentive to me

20:23:09 asciilifeform: the most valuable contractor is the one who magicks away the problem in seconds and then gets out of yer face

20:23:23 ben_vulpes: well, we work with derpy web stacks man.

20:23:31 ben_vulpes: each a snowflake with its own peculiarities.

20:23:32 asciilifeform: especially there, this ought to be true ?

20:23:44 asciilifeform: the master of a particular turd can 'turn the screw'

20:23:46 ben_vulpes: as we get up to speed on a given codebase/ops story, shit moves vastly more quickly.

20:23:49 asciilifeform: civilian - will be reading the horror for weeks

20:24:08 trinque: really hard to quantify this stuff

20:24:15 ben_vulpes: no doubt, asciilifeform, no doubt.

20:24:17 asciilifeform: the gnarlier, uglier, the proggy, the more potential for 'screws'

20:24:35 ben_vulpes: but someone must invest the capital to justify loading it into a team's shared understanding.

20:25:48 *: asciilifeform finds the above ^ a bit confusing but may be out of depth

20:26:22 ben_vulpes: the source must be read, neh?

20:26:33 ben_vulpes: this takes time.

20:26:38 ben_vulpes: someone must foot the bill for that.

20:26:46 asciilifeform: unless you already knew (or even wrote) it

20:26:49 asciilifeform: (consultant)

20:27:03 ben_vulpes: sure, for greenfield absolutely.

20:27:11 cazalla: nubbins`: cazalla tell us more about your web of hate <<< some kid printed out ICQ chatlogs that he was not even involved in and took them to the police

20:27:21 ben_vulpes: but what about the project whose maintainer has ghosted themselves off to the next interesting thing?

20:28:20 asciilifeform: even for straight reverse-engineering, there are order-of-magnitude variations in the amount different folks have to read to grasp the problem

20:29:19 asciilifeform: i bet you can think of some examples of this, from your own practice

20:29:24 cazalla: nubbins`: is there anyone here who hasn't made the local news for threatening people? o.O <<< i made TV too because what else happens in the sticks, thankfully minor at the time.. all this shit because i said i was gonna machine gun a bunch of people

20:29:31 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: several.

20:30:11 ben_vulpes: i'd not go so far as to say "order of magnitude"

20:30:20 ben_vulpes: perhaps 2x to 3x

20:30:35 cazalla: mircea_popescu: cazalla: well that was short lived.. "you have been banned from posting to /r/Buttcoin" << what sort of low quality shilling have you been engaging in! <<< i criticised the jews :\

20:30:52 mats: cazalla: lemme guess. 'ButterNubber'?

20:31:01 cazalla: mats, that's not me

20:31:13 ben_vulpes: in our snowflake of a case, that's more due to the difference between people who've seen things like the bug under the microscope before, and people who've yet to learn the myriad of tools and mental models to cope effectively.

20:31:15 mats: the mystery continues.

20:31:46 ben_vulpes: a bit of economics: in training those people, their value delivered goes up disproportionately to their wage hikes.

20:31:49 trinque: ben_vulpes: is being drunk a mental model or a tool

20:31:56 trinque: that one makes django a breeze

20:32:03 ben_vulpes: trinque: well if you know what you're doing, and you're climbing with Ballmer...

20:32:12 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: their value delivered goes up disproportionately to their wage hikes << naggum wrote at some length on this subject

20:32:20 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'd love to read it

20:32:48 ben_vulpes: there's another side to that as well, which is that the people with whom I work who do things at the 2x-3x range of the others actually enjoy teaching juniors and collaborating on these projects.

20:33:15 ben_vulpes: non monetary remuneration.

20:33:19 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3134574475962391@naggum.no.html << one bit. there was more, somewhere

20:33:19 assbot: Re: Newbie questions - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1EuQTx6 )

20:34:36 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3184272714185846@naggum.net.html

20:34:37 assbot: Re: What Lisp needs to beat Java, etc. - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1EuR3EM )

20:35:41 asciilifeform: 'Let's put it another way: Money will _not_ get you any Open Source or Free Software. People create software like this because they want to, _not_ because they get paid. Money is a basically a _detractor_ for creative people who want others to use their software and through that become personally visible. It is pretty sad, but money does not offer visibility to someone who is begging for others to notice him. Open Source a

20:35:41 asciilifeform: nd Free Software are proofs that computers are alienating in the old Marxist sense and the Open Source and Free Software projects are reactions to this sense of alienation, in order to make the person stand out from the computerized nothingness.'

20:36:55 danielpbarron: it's like a starving artist kid i know that will spitefully do a poor job if you pay him to draw something

20:38:24 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: we definitely diverge from the original topic significantly here, but "community" and "belongingness" is a core part of what we do.

20:38:51 ben_vulpes: we have relationships with our clients, get to know their business and make a nominal difference in how they do it.

20:38:57 coderwill: ben_vulpes: sorry, delayed reply - yeah i get what you are saying about hiring friends

20:39:37 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yeah, linked piece is not quite what i was looking for

20:39:40 asciilifeform: it's in there, somewhere.

20:40:25 asciilifeform: (*in the archive)

20:40:34 ben_vulpes: myeah.

20:40:42 ben_vulpes: i'd like to be more familiar with that archive.

20:40:49 *: ben_vulpes files it for peacetime

20:40:55 asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/index.html

20:40:56 assbot: Erik Naggum comp.lang.lisp archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1yMUgap )

20:41:02 *: asciilifeform at one point snarfed up all of it

20:43:32 trinque: !up felipelalli

20:43:45 trinque: felipelalli: you're going to want to get yourself a cloak

20:43:58 trinque: and a properly configured irc client

20:44:14 trinque: somebody in here likes to ddos IPs that appear in logs

20:45:07 trinque: I'm sure we're all being scanned for hax as well

20:45:30 trinque: ^heh! fled

20:53:55 cazalla: why the name change trinque?

20:56:04 trinque: cazalla: this was always my otc handle, and hence the name that made it into assbot

20:56:11 trinque: and why use an alias

20:57:03 cazalla: guess i gots to make another symlink in my mind much in the same way i made one for bitcoinpete

20:58:44 BingoBoingo: !b 4

20:58:45 assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/25RYXFV.txt )

20:59:54 trinque: BingoBoingo: is this to highlight "why use an alias" for when I'm hauled off to room 101?

21:01:09 BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah, just wanted to highlight brain symlinks

21:23:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10787 @ 0.00042663 = 4.6021 BTC [-] {2}

21:24:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42513 @ 0.00043175 = 18.355 BTC [+]

21:27:59 kakobrekla: i know changing names is not a good practice, but perhaps for the sake of sync we could allow to update your name once (given properly signed request from adequate gpg key)

21:34:13 ben_vulpes: changing names not a good practice?

21:34:25 ben_vulpes: so long as the fp doesn't change how does that matter?

21:34:30 ben_vulpes: felipelalli: you'll need a cloak.

21:35:14 kakobrekla: ben_vulpes think of it this way: why dont we just use FP instead of nicks ?

21:35:39 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: that was sorta the plan in 'gossip'

21:35:52 asciilifeform: nick is just something you'd assign locally to an fp, for convenience

21:36:05 kakobrekla: reminds me of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2015#998582

21:36:05 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 16:49:48; kakobrekla: the thing with the phone was, when you were sending sms you had to type in the destination phone number from your head, no way to use saved entries.

21:36:23 kakobrekla: yes, locally

21:36:28 kakobrekla: thats different matter.

21:36:55 asciilifeform: this is actually more like how names work in life

21:37:08 asciilifeform: i.e. you have some say in what folks you meet will call you, but not 100%

21:37:53 kakobrekla: but say you rated undata at some point, and then he changes nick to pirateat40 and you will wtf next time you check your ratings

21:38:01 felipelalli: ben_vulpes: why?

21:38:35 davout: kakobrekla: dat true

21:38:39 kakobrekla: now, this is just a one time inconvenience, but say everyone would change all the time. nicht gut.

21:38:57 davout: i can hardly remember who this kakobrekla guy is anyway

21:39:08 kakobrekla: see its already hard for frenchies.

21:40:37 asciilifeform: so:

21:40:51 asciilifeform: bitcoind limited to 'orphanage' of 50 blocks (running on ordinary pc) never syncs

21:41:02 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/01/police-warn-bitcoin-extortion-letter-recipients-not-to-pay/

21:41:02 asciilifeform: stuck at 3466.

21:41:38 jurov: and does the std limit of 750 help with oom after all?

21:42:37 asciilifeform: almost certainly not (quite definitely not on 'pogo')

21:42:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu was right in that a fundamentally more intelligent mechanism for retrieving blocks is necessary

21:44:47 asciilifeform: testing a build of same with constant of 250

21:45:06 asciilifeform: if the memory footprint can actually be limited, the smaller machine can perhaps be allowed to swap to disk.

21:45:12 davout: being able to request blox from peers for a certain height would solve the whole thing instantly

21:45:29 asciilifeform: aha.

21:46:13 jurov: malicious peers can poison us with orphan chain up to that height

21:46:16 jurov: anyway

21:46:29 jurov: i'd suggest to use difficulty

21:46:47 davout: if you're connected to only malicious peers you're kinda fuxxored anyway

21:46:56 asciilifeform: malicious peers not even needed for this

21:47:02 asciilifeform: it happens reliably, anyway

21:47:09 jurov: yes. but if we put in expected difficulty instead of checkpoints

21:47:22 jurov: then producing fake blocks is.. well dificult

21:47:25 davout: "malicious peers not even needed for this" <<< how?

21:47:58 asciilifeform: davout: the flood happens nearly always in the natural process of loading blocks

21:48:04 jurov: (just spur if the moment idea)

21:48:07 jurov: *of

21:49:09 davout: ah, i thought you were referring to jurov's 'malicious peers' objection to consider requesting blocks based on height

21:54:15 jurov: now that is something. if i secretly make 350k alternative blocks with minimal difficulty, will that altchain get chosen if we have no checkpoints?

21:54:21 asciilifeform: experimental result:

21:54:26 asciilifeform: (250, x86)

21:54:52 asciilifeform: ten minutes of run, 127937 height (and going at that rate), at no point process exceeded 90MB

21:57:45 asciilifeform: but!

21:57:51 asciilifeform: seems like it got lucky with peers

21:58:03 asciilifeform: log shows that only two 'bastards' came in

21:58:25 *: asciilifeform resets

22:01:26 asciilifeform: grep "ORPHAN BLOCK" ~/.bitcoin/debug.log | wc -l

22:09:53 asciilifeform: ^ 'bastard count'

22:18:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22125 @ 0.0004171 = 9.2283 BTC [-]

22:18:49 mod6: Anyone wanna test out a perl script for me? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Wp8V8n9h

22:18:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yVycPy )

22:19:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11346 @ 0.00041058 = 4.6584 BTC [-]

22:22:08 asciilifeform: 2nd run (see above) :

22:22:51 asciilifeform: after ~15 min, 950 (iirc) bastards, 85MB max footprint - reached a wedge state at 119970 (1983 bastards, came in burst)

22:23:15 mod6: yal

22:23:41 asciilifeform: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : xxxxxxxxx mapTransactions prev not found yyyyyyyyy

22:23:41 asciilifeform: ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : ConnectInputs failed xxxxxxxxx

22:23:43 asciilifeform: ^ of this form

22:26:45 asciilifeform: go figure, dislodged.

22:26:47 davout: jurov: "now that is something. if i secretly make 350k alternative blocks with minimal difficulty, will that altchain get chosen if we have no checkpoints?" <<< i don't think so. if you have 8 peers you'll get two different blocks at different diff for the same height, hard to feed you a bogus chain

22:26:57 asciilifeform: stays in mem footprint

22:27:14 asciilifeform: (2800 bastards in)

22:27:27 asciilifeform: 124000 & counting

22:27:42 asciilifeform: this is actually an unsurprising result

22:27:57 asciilifeform: if connects to a peer who insists on pumping it full of bastards, cyclically, of course it wedges.

22:28:13 asciilifeform: but when wedged, does not oom.

22:28:55 mod6: wait until you get to here:

22:28:55 mod6: http://dpaste.com/1K109AP

22:28:58 assbot: dpaste: 1K109AP ... ( http://bit.ly/1EURyoS )

22:29:45 asciilifeform: based on the footprint, the orphanage burner functions

22:31:50 asciilifeform: same effect at 131019...

22:31:57 asciilifeform: 4570 bstrds

22:32:26 asciilifeform: 117MB max footprint

22:32:47 asciilifeform: dislodged

22:33:13 asciilifeform: ergo, when it hits a retarded peer, grunts for a while

22:33:21 asciilifeform: would be more economical to simply chop the connection

22:33:31 asciilifeform: retards can go pound sand

22:34:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00040756 = 11.0041 BTC [-] {3}

22:35:53 mats: cheer up

22:36:16 mats: can you feel ma love from over the tubes?

22:37:20 trinque: he said, inching closer, staring without a blink

22:52:35 asciilifeform: blocks=136927 bastards=7631 peak=120M

22:54:46 mod6: you're running with a 250 size limit cap now right?

22:54:54 asciilifeform: aha

22:55:05 asciilifeform: (on x86 box)

22:55:05 mod6: cool

22:57:47 *: danielpbarron now has 3 pogoplugs

22:58:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.10442915 = 1.2531 BTC [+] {4}

22:59:19 mod6: that's neat. gonna test RI on 'em?

23:00:40 danielpbarron: what is RI

23:00:54 mod6: reference implementation

23:01:28 mod6: (v0.5.3 + patchez)

23:01:46 danielpbarron: ah, yes

23:02:07 mod6: werd. lettuce know how it goes. :]

23:02:51 *: BingoBoingo considering http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2760 as future desktop machine. Seems to satisfy stuff in bag, carry much distance criteria.

23:02:52 assbot: The Linux Mint Blog » Blog Archive » Introducing the MintBox Mini ... ( http://bit.ly/18Cxltn )

23:03:45 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo likes soldered-in wifi ?

23:04:06 BingoBoingo: solder melts

23:04:16 BingoBoingo: Antennas snip

23:04:28 asciilifeform: why not buy things that don't require mutilation.

23:06:31 *: BingoBoingo still populates list with candidates. can see merits of wifi for hotel camping scenarios, but prefers unpluggable wifi

23:12:25 asciilifeform: blocks=137849 bastards=8647 peak=128M

23:29:16 ben_vulpes: interesting hostname, berndj

23:29:30 ben_vulpes: hmph. nevermind.

23:29:51 asciilifeform: http://lurkmore.so/images/2/2e/66548.jpg << bitcoin 'core' developer

23:29:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18Cy6mf )

23:30:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://lurkmore.so/images/e/ed/ArApp.jpg << see also

23:30:39 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18Cycum )

23:30:47 asciilifeform: ought to be a book!

23:55:48 danielpbarron: i'm ssh'd into this thing; pretty neat

23:58:50 danielpbarron: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2tzjp7/hi_reddit_im_bill_gates_and_im_back_for_my_third/co68xd5?context=8 << persistent guy!

23:58:53 assbot: GoldenVizions comments on Hi Reddit, I’m Bill Gates and I’m back for my third AMA. Ask me anything. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfXEP9 )