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Transcript for 30-01-2016, 790 lines:

00:01:18 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency FIRST!!!

00:01:19 gribble: Error: 'FIRST!!!' is not a valid currency code.

00:02:00 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all

00:02:09 gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 378.27, vol: 13543.66759622 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.724, vol: 8758.31056 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 377.49, vol: 62224.11038134 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 382.99, vol: 6.2435984 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.88072, vol: 79125.12340000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 379.91559, vol: 613.79457287 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 385.572769, vol: 50.78882564 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)

00:02:16 BingoBoingo: ;;more

00:02:16 gribble: average: 381.403841153

00:02:35 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --currency jpy

00:02:36 gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.

00:02:48 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency jpy

00:02:56 gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 45800.3168, vol: 13547.40184749 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 46355.40976, vol: 8757.95763 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 46387.7488, vol: 6.2435984 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 46630.877384, vol: 79126.78360000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 45500.0, vol: 46.76868694 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46698.41221, vol: 50.78882564 | Volume-weighted last average: 46495.7976395

00:06:44 BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb

00:06:51 gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2534.1, vol: 79113.51580000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2534.1

00:08:00 shinohai: ;;ticker --market all --currency sweet young virgins

00:08:02 gribble: Error: 'sweet' is not a valid currency code.

00:09:54 punkman: ;;diff

00:09:55 gribble: 1.2003334065123697E11

00:10:06 punkman: ;;diffchange

00:10:08 gribble: Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | None % based on data since last change | 11.54629 % based on data for last three days

00:15:20 punkman: bitfury's 40MW datacenter could do 600petahash with their 16nm chips

00:15:27 BingoBoingo: shinohai: It takes currency codes only so instead of "sweet young virgins" you gotta enter "cntvs" for "cunt, virgin sweet"

00:18:35 shinohai: ^^

00:23:18 funkenstein_: eh let captain kirk go where no man has gone before

00:23:19 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/l2oplLE.png?1 << No matter how much you try to appease hamplanets there's always that that's too fat.

00:23:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UwaGB6 )

00:26:40 punkman: ;;genrate [calc 12 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000]

00:26:42 gribble: The expected generation output, at 12000000000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 1.20033340651e+11, is 50.2766828319 BTC per day and 2.09486178466 BTC per hour.

00:27:17 punkman: ;;calc 50.27 * [avgprc USD 30d]

00:27:18 gribble: 20521.2194

00:27:40 punkman: (12 petahash, aka one bitfury container thingie)

00:29:20 punkman: "16nm chips for total hashpower of 12PH/s, 1.5MW (rev1) or 16PH/s, 2MW (rev2)"

00:31:35 punkman: guess that 40MW-600phash calculation I saw in some comments somewhere might be off a bit

00:34:05 BingoBoingo: tumblr sex https://i.imgur.com/3bc9Yuh.jpg

00:34:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UwbSEt )

00:36:50 punkman: 2mw per day at $0.15kwh ,,calc 48000 * 0.15

00:37:06 punkman: ;;calc 48000 * 0.15

00:37:07 gribble: 7200

00:39:00 danielpbarron: heh the boy is touching himself

00:46:31 shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389517 <<< Sadly it seems everyone in America feels entitled to make manufacturers do as they wish.

00:46:31 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 00:23:19; BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/l2oplLE.png?1 << No matter how much you try to appease hamplanets there's always that that's too fat.

00:52:25 BingoBoingo: In other news Qatar made a sports car http://www.arabgt.com/%D8%A7%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA/%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%B1%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA/%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A9-elibreia-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%B7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%B0%D8%A8-%D8%AC%D9%85%D9%8A%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D9%86%D8%AD%D9%88%D9%87%D8%A7

00:52:27 assbot: سيارة Elibreia القطرية تجذب جميع الأنظار نحوها | ArabGT ... ( http://bit.ly/23z6Ltt )

01:06:51 mod6: ok lemme try to answer some questions here...

01:07:29 mod6: <+pete_dushenski> mod6: 99996k built and running. back to scarfing blocks. should be synced early next week. << ok awesome, glad you got it working

01:08:03 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> You must install 'bc' on your build machine << ah, ok.

01:09:14 BingoBoingo: Looks like fiat intends to declare war on Aedes aegypti and Aedes albopictus

01:09:38 mod6: what's the cannonical makeclean, rm -rf * in /rotor ? << yeah, i would just blowaway the entire 'rotor' directory along with all the V stuff. the stuff that I would save is just the .wot dir, the keys contained therein, and of course, your ~/.gnupg stuff (ofc. have backups etc (this is for everyone who blew their keys away once)) : then totally restart the entire script.

01:10:38 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2 << yeah, if all goes well, you should ~only~ need to just execute the build script -- if you have to execute either of the rotor.sh scripts, then something went wrong.

01:10:41 shinohai: I just nuked my entire rotor directory on build machine every time I am doing an update

01:11:16 mod6: obviously this is not how we want things to be -- will be the main focus to be to get rid of the build script we're using today and move to a version of trinque's makefiles.

01:11:50 mod6: it doesn't scale obviously for everyone to have these issues. for my own sanity, we need to make it so that a guy just basically does one thing and then it builds.

01:11:53 mod6: no exceptions to this.

01:12:27 mod6: so yeah, after the first, will be a main focus there -- all are encouraged to help me get to this goal.

01:13:10 shinohai: you have my support for as many hours of testing and reporting as needed. o7

01:13:56 mod6: <+hanbot> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389355 << if this isn't already a standard example, anyone feel like talking me through this option jungle? (starting v99996 for the first time) << so i think all that is really required here is `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=A.B.C.D -addnode=W.X.Y.Z &`

01:13:56 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 21:39:38; shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 &

01:14:19 mod6: But it totally depends. It depends on if you have ~/.bitcoin available for your blockchain repo, or if its in a different place.

01:14:24 mod6: if so you need to use -datadir=

01:14:36 mod6: if you want to verify all signatures in a block; use -verifyall

01:14:51 mod6: if you want to send btc and not get malleated, you may use: -lows

01:15:14 mod6: if you want to connect to just a single node instead of many, use: -connect (instead of -addnode)

01:15:55 mod6: if you have .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -- then you shouldn't need to use the flag: -conf

01:16:11 mod6: for sure let me know if there are other ones that you wanna know about :]

01:16:28 mod6: TomServo: ok, something very bad (tm) is happening on your end.

01:17:12 mod6: Please, let's work together to discover what that might be. I'm worried that either V is failing on your side for some reason (it seems to not be pressing out the tree correctly) -- maybe you tried to build over an old build space, or who knows.

01:17:23 mod6: But we should attempt to get to the bottom of this as soon as possible.

01:18:19 mod6: There are steps that I can let you know about to walk you through setting this up and logging your every move so we can all discover what it is that isn't working on your end. Because I'd bet dollars to donuts that for somereason you are ending up with a super downlevel version of db.cpp -- which is why you're getting stuck on 252`450

01:18:43 mod6: thanks shinohai

01:18:49 shinohai: Ok my old Ubuntu server and the other Deb machine both built with the script pete_dushenski posted earlier

01:19:12 mod6: ok sweet. that's a good thing.

01:19:22 shinohai: The Ubuntu server is remote - lost connection and had to reconnect

01:19:46 mod6: if hanbot and Mr. P. can get through it ok, then we'll deedbot it -- not that I feel good about it - I don't. The thing isn't what we really want... it's just what we have, for now. :/

01:20:35 mod6: the entire build process is incredibly complex and we need to desperately reduce that compelxity as much as we can.

01:20:44 shinohai: I can work with it because I've used variation of it for so many builds. But I understand the issues at hand.

01:20:52 mod6: exactly.

01:21:32 shinohai: I won't lie those, there are times I cry " mod6 HALP!!!!"

01:21:39 mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much -- but at least enough to install Linux can build this with a "single button push"

01:21:41 shinohai: *though

01:22:29 mod6: Yeah, the good news is: We have a statically linked bitcoind that has come quite a long way from where we started. Infact, the original version flat out will not work any longer -- ala TomServo's issue.

01:22:43 mod6: However, the process to build said binary is quite arduous and we need to perfect that part.

01:22:59 mod6: Then we'll be ready to take on the more challenging parts this year -- i.e. the mempool etc.

01:23:09 mod6: But we can't work on that, until we have something that people can use today.

01:23:23 mod6: what good is fixing the mempool or other things if they can't build it and use it today?

01:23:53 mod6: if someone says "hey fuck these ``Classic and XT clowns, I want REAL BITCOIN'', then we need to ensure that they can build that.

01:23:59 mod6: that's our charge.

01:24:09 shinohai: It goes with the territory though. So many moving parts and this is relatively young in it's existence

01:25:09 mod6: Yup. It's complex. We've come a long way.

01:25:30 mod6: trinque did us all a huge favor, but we need to perfect the thing and make it a "no brainer"

01:25:51 mod6: that will be my main goal as soon as the SoBA for january is complete.

01:26:05 mod6: which, I aim to work on tonight :]

01:26:30 mod6: As soon as we have our new build process in place, and it's sane, and "Works" and "fits in head" and all that, then we'll release.

01:26:53 mod6: And hopefully, this will end some of our tooling issues for a while, and we can focus on the large engineering issues at hand.

01:26:58 mod6: *larger

01:34:33 punkman: mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much << wouldn't this guy be better off downloading a signed binary?

01:36:11 mod6: this to me always seems like a shaky idea -- ONLY even a possibility if we get all the compiler garbage fixed so that it produces (bitwise) the ~exact~ same binary every single time.

01:37:49 mod6: i do think, as a republic, we're laying the groundwork for that at some point to be a possibility.

01:37:57 mod6: so stragicially, we're moving in the correct direction there.

01:39:03 *: shinohai would contribute a .deb package with same result

01:40:28 mod6: Look at how much stuff we accomplished in January!

01:41:26 mod6: I feel good about the work that you all put in this month. Thanks to everyone who helped the republic be successful this month.

01:41:57 *: shinohai drinks to tmsr~ [~]D

01:42:03 mod6: Salud!

01:42:16 punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?

01:44:58 trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389199 << certainly, I'd be happy to host it

01:44:58 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:10:39; mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever?

01:46:08 trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389272 << there's some tweaking I'd like to do, would be happy to have your thoughts on the thing when you're able if you see other improvements

01:46:08 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:34:34; mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand.

01:48:15 trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-01-2016#1384068 << I designed the makefiles to take a BUILDER variable, of which there is currently only rotor. perhaps this is the place to add an openbsd builder, which could apply unofficial patches as they are necessary after V press

01:48:15 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 08:18:57; phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly

01:49:38 mod6: <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389199 << certainly, I'd be happy to host it << outstanding, thanks!

01:49:38 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:10:39; mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever?

01:50:30 mod6: <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-01-2016#1389272 << there's some tweaking I'd like to do, would be happy to have your thoughts on the thing when you're able if you see other improvements << yeah, please, if you have the time, i'd really like to work with you to help us not only get the makefiles updated with the latest V and other things, but to also figure out all of this stuff.

01:50:30 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 20:34:34; mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand.

01:51:02 trinque: I will probably be out all day tomorrow, but the next day or sometime next week will work for me.

01:51:25 mod6: <+trinque> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-01-2016#1384068 << I designed the makefiles to take a BUILDER variable, of which there is currently only rotor. ... << for now, as far as I'm concerned, this is totally ok. we'll have to worry about other *nix's after we perfect getting linux x86-64 done with a CD to boot also.

01:51:25 assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 08:18:57; phf: as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly

01:51:49 mod6: <+trinque> I will probably be out all day tomorrow, but the next day or sometime next week will work for me. << no rush here. i'd like to dig into this sometime next week.

01:51:56 trinque: cool.

01:52:21 mod6: I feel like, if you and I put some serious effort with help from #b-a, for like 2 weeks, we'd really be somewhere by the end of february.

01:52:48 mod6: which would allow us some full testing time - at the end of which, we sign patches and call it a release.

01:53:22 mod6: two weeks kinda sounds like it might be a lot, but you know how this stuff goes ;)

01:54:42 trinque: that sounds good to me.

01:54:46 mircea_popescu: mod6 and in the same vein as prev comment : why does bitcoind end up in /bitcoin/src ?

01:55:33 mod6: mircea_popescu: no specific reason, we just leave it in place after compilation. moving to trinque's setup resolves this.

01:55:40 mircea_popescu: kk\

01:56:18 mod6: you think i should copy it somewhere in the v99996 build script before i jump onto other things? i'd rather just let sleeping dogs lie there, just because very soon we're gonna ditch it anyway.

01:57:17 mircea_popescu: yeah ok

01:58:40 mod6: oh hey

01:58:52 mod6: btw, did it ever build ok for you after the 'bc' issue?

01:59:11 mod6: hanbot: did you get it to work too?

02:00:42 PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389165 << the MSU Chemistry department is decidedly standardized on chalk. We had these nice 1" thick chalk, was great for drawing molecules you could read from the back of the lecture hall

02:00:42 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:57:06; mircea_popescu: hey, best part of physics lab was the blackboard imo

02:01:08 PeterL: I always hated when we had to use a room in the physics department, they used whiteboards

02:01:27 mircea_popescu: mod6 : latest trb v99996 on 91.218.246.31 says "blocks" : 4500, "connections" : 13,

02:01:40 mod6: ah ok!!

02:01:42 shinohai: btw mod6 I still have to add the export PERL_MM_OPT= to mine to get it to run, dunno what weird issue I have that causes it.

02:01:47 mircea_popescu: minor snags as detailed in logs. but nothing really worth the mention

02:01:55 mod6: ok gotcha

02:02:03 mod6: shinohai: that *is* weird.

02:02:44 mod6: mircea_popescu: hey, just because im curious -- let me know if you get past 252`450 -- or if you'd rather, check and see if you have the most recent db.cpp

02:03:01 mod6: TomServo's issues have me a bit curious there.

02:03:29 mircea_popescu: mod6 ima look one sec

02:03:36 mod6: Thanks Sir. Much appreciated.

02:04:00 mircea_popescu: mod6 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e db.cpp that help ?

02:04:38 mircea_popescu: dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(2737000);

02:04:40 mircea_popescu: yeah seems right.

02:04:41 mod6: Thanks Sir. Much appreciated.# sha512sum db.cpp

02:04:42 mod6: 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e db.cpp

02:04:50 mod6: oops, copied too much there.

02:05:01 mod6: yah, looks good to me. very good.

02:05:04 mircea_popescu: cool.

02:05:27 mod6: hmm. perhaps he has something environmental going on. be interesting to get to the bottom of that mystery.

02:05:39 mircea_popescu: TomServo how much ram does the system actulaly have ?

02:06:08 mod6: just dial: 1888-MOD-6HLP

02:06:36 mod6: :D

02:06:48 mircea_popescu: better than 0-800-NO-HODL

02:07:04 mod6: haha

02:08:49 mircea_popescu: o look at that, blockchain 10% done!

02:08:52 mircea_popescu: hurr

02:09:02 mod6: running -verifyall ?

02:09:07 mircea_popescu: yeah.

02:09:14 mod6: werd

02:09:26 mircea_popescu: also running -connect

02:09:32 mircea_popescu: because why would i take stuff from the webs.

02:09:55 mod6: ya, i agree with that when sync'ing up. get a verified chain from a trusted node.

02:10:05 mircea_popescu: yup.

02:10:07 mod6: then make a backup (for those who haven't)

02:10:44 trinque: shinohai: I'd type env in a terminal of yours, see what your system is setting

02:13:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << ok that's great.

02:13:27 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk

02:13:52 trinque: also, deedbox will be down shortly for SSD installation, whenever the DC pulls it

02:14:05 mircea_popescu: phf what do you use to graph ?

02:17:12 hanbot: mod6 v99996 up and running here, couldn't've asked for something smoother.

02:17:59 mod6: wow, hanbot. congrats!

02:18:13 mod6: Thanks for the feedback. :]

02:18:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389541 << i did have to run the rotor by hand.

02:18:49 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:10:38; mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2 << yeah, if all goes well, you should ~only~ need to just execute the build script -- if you have to execute either of the rotor.sh scripts, then something went wrong.

02:19:12 mircea_popescu: anyway mod6 this is a milestone for teh foundation, got three instances spun up on the same fucking day of the release.

02:19:15 mircea_popescu: within hours really

02:19:31 mod6: ok, on that note then; we've got myself, shinohai, bitcoin_pete, hanbot, Mr. P. and who am i forgetting that have built v99996 build script -- i'd say let's put it in deed bot and update the wiki.

02:19:46 mod6: mircea_popescu: that's great! very nice progress indeed.

02:20:10 mircea_popescu: o right, more like 5 huh

02:20:12 mod6: Couldn't have been possible without all of you.

02:20:34 mircea_popescu: anyway, im only going to announce the new nodes once they're synced and i open them to public i figure.

02:20:54 mod6: Thanks for doing so! That's awesome.

02:21:01 mircea_popescu: currently kinda useless to advertise nodes that run in -connect

02:21:06 shinohai: I'll open mine to public when I finish my battle with Comcast.

02:21:22 mod6: give 'em hell, shinohai

02:21:53 PeterL: does it sync faster in -connect rather than -addnode?

02:21:53 mircea_popescu: lol no gaming on comcast cable ?

02:22:19 mircea_popescu: PeterL probably. moreover, it allows the trb network to be built in depth. what the fuck do we even have the fronteer nodes for if not to protect us

02:23:03 mircea_popescu: i haven't the slightest curiosity to find what rando i couldn't tell from adam thinks the blocks look like.

02:23:10 shinohai: mod6 Atlanta is one of the cities they decide to start enforcing data caps on. :/

02:23:17 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << ok that's great. << this ~is~ a nice looking graph

02:23:17 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk

02:24:13 mod6: shinohai: wow. perhaps, it's not a horrible idea to look at a hosted solution instead of saturating your home conn.

02:24:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389555 << incidentally, could all the flags be covered in .conf ?

02:24:17 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:15:55; mod6: if you have .bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -- then you shouldn't need to use the flag: -conf

02:24:50 mod6: mircea_popescu: I believe they should.

02:25:15 mod6: shinohai: you use the conf file quite a bit right? does it seem to work "as expected" ?

02:25:21 mircea_popescu: and also, could we bundle a pre-created .conf file with the release ? something to include say all the public trb nodes as -connects and stuff, with a comment to explain to people how to turn it into a public node ?

02:25:27 mircea_popescu: something like

02:25:40 mircea_popescu: connect = X Y Z

02:25:57 mircea_popescu: # to make this node public, make sure port 8333 is open, comment out the line above and uncomment the line below

02:26:01 mircea_popescu: # somesetting

02:26:13 mod6: hmm. i'd feel like that maybe that's a bit sticky incase IPs change or what not -- maybe an addition to the wiki would be a better place to start there?

02:26:33 mircea_popescu: you just update it with every release.

02:26:47 mircea_popescu: defaults are defaults, people are free to change them. but it's nice to have when out of the box like this

02:27:17 mod6: sure. that makes some sense. if it reduces confusion, i think its positive.

02:27:25 mircea_popescu: i dunno, just throwing it out there, for ppl to weigh in

02:27:27 shinohai: mod6: it works as expected for me, maybe I'll draft one up in next couple of days

02:27:43 mod6: hey hey, there you go bud.

02:27:45 mircea_popescu: certainly gets it one step further to the "one command and it runs" ideal

02:28:21 mod6: yah, shinohai that's be super helpful.

02:28:30 mod6: *that'd

02:29:26 mod6: you know something that is a lot different participating in TMSR as opposed to any other place i've worked at?

02:29:33 mircea_popescu: whassat

02:29:42 mod6: people in here ~care~ about problems. they wanna pitch in and help and make things better.

02:29:56 mircea_popescu: that's the idea

02:30:02 mod6: in typical US work environment, its mainly a lot of "oh, that's not my problem... talk to so and so..."

02:30:13 shinohai: If you don't care about Bitcoin, you shouldn't be here.

02:30:22 mod6: seeing us pull together and get problems solved, warms my heart.

02:30:54 PeterL: maybe you just need to find better workplaces?

02:31:05 shinohai: What good is being part of a Republic, if you do not contribute for the good of said Republic?

02:31:27 mod6: lol, ive actually worked at a lot of places. it's totally different. people go there to get paid so they can continue buying shit they don't need and eating food that isn't food.

02:31:41 mod6: this, like shinohai said, is different because people want it.

02:31:50 mod6: "sound money is better than anything you've got"

02:32:48 *: shinohai would not have nice new lappy without sound money!

02:34:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389566 << actually it was really pleasant.

02:34:23 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:20:35; mod6: the entire build process is incredibly complex and we need to desperately reduce that compelxity as much as we can.

02:34:34 mircea_popescu: and i'm one easily irritated.

02:38:58 shinohai: Chillax and smoke more weed mircea_popescu

02:41:25 mircea_popescu: "blocks" : 88213, man that first coupla years go fast...

02:42:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389587 < no.

02:42:38 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:34:33; punkman: mod6: my goal is that someone who doesn't really know much << wouldn't this guy be better off downloading a signed binary?

02:43:48 mircea_popescu: for one thing, the VERY CONCEPT of signed binary no longer exists.

02:43:55 mircea_popescu: we have a complex trees of signatures etc.

02:44:42 mircea_popescu: for the other thing, no. it promotes this anti-computing, anti-intellectual, outright evil view of software being something that is given the user, like an item, rather than the correct view of software being a command given to the computer.

02:44:46 mircea_popescu: and in general. fuck that shit.

02:46:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << so like a rotor reimplementation ?

02:46:24 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?

02:47:01 shinohai: But it's what the user expects!

02:48:21 punkman: I don't think "guy that doesn't know much" doing "curl deedbot.com/build.sh | sh" is great either

02:48:35 phf: i'm using graphviz, v.lisp produces a file of 'digraph G {"bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32" -> "asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation"; ...' format, everything else handled by graphviz

02:48:35 phf:

02:48:36 mircea_popescu: why not ?

02:49:13 mircea_popescu: phf your v.lisp seems pretty advanced then :)

02:49:53 phf: it gets the job done :]

02:56:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00056225 = 18.8635 BTC [+] {4}

03:12:18 punkman: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << so like a rotor reimplementation ? << more like some rotor automation to try various builds and lets you know what compiles or not

03:12:18 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?

03:31:54 TomServo: mod6: Please assume I've mucked something up before all else. Let me know what I can provide that can be of help.

03:32:09 TomServo: mircea_popescu: System has 2048 MB of RAM.

03:34:40 TomServo: doh dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(10000); :(

03:38:48 BingoBoingo: I'm sorry Russia https://i.sli.mg/YVzz6l.jpg

03:38:50 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sqa80y )

04:00:06 punkman: "If you've never peddled the flesh of subhuman garbage creatures to human garbage, you've never lived, and living is a nightmare. Eat arbys"

04:00:45 mod6: oh hai TomServo

04:01:12 mod6: Well, you may have not have `mucked' anything up. Perhaps we can walk through this a bit.

04:01:45 mod6: if you're around tonight, i'd like to walk through some steps.

04:02:35 mod6: If not, tomorrow is fine too. Just want to ensure that we take a look at what might be going on there.

04:20:50 mod6: BingoBoingo: haha.

04:21:03 BingoBoingo: rotational problem for sure

04:21:12 mod6: mmmhmm

04:29:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00056029 = 19.8903 BTC [-]

04:51:16 mod6: ok, let's pick it back up in the morning. night!

04:58:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00056081 = 21.7314 BTC [+] {2}

05:05:46 TomServo: Sorry, I had to step away. I've rebuilt w/ v99996k and am seeing the correct max_locks.

05:06:07 TomServo: Still have the original build dir if that is any help.

05:09:54 TomServo: Back up and running but no joy yet. Is unwedging unlikely?

05:13:12 mircea_popescu: it should unwedge in a coupla hours or so.

05:15:12 TomServo: cool.

05:24:56 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389383 << this is spiffy

05:24:56 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 22:09:55; phf: asciilifeform: check it http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition.png

05:26:01 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389731 << quite

05:26:01 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 02:44:42; mircea_popescu: for the other thing, no. it promotes this anti-computing, anti-intellectual, outright evil view of software being something that is given the user, like an item, rather than the correct view of software being a command given to the computer.

05:26:35 asciilifeform: signed binary can be contemplated when there is simply no escape (e.g., firmware image, compiler bootstrap) but otherwise entirely braindamaged

05:33:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56400 @ 0.00056275 = 31.7391 BTC [+] {2}

05:46:42 punkman: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402 l0l

05:46:44 assbot: Mount efivarfs read-only · Issue #2402 · systemd/systemd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TsPAVX )

05:59:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.00055816 = 20.2054 BTC [-]

05:59:56 ben_vulpes: b. n.

06:02:13 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell cazalla hey you

06:02:14 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:03:33 ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski 'hysterical raisins'!

06:03:34 gribble: The operation succeeded.

06:15:48 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389453 << let me tell you, the look of astonishment, disbelief, and 'omg my priors' on $admingurl's face when i told her i valued publishing the ssl piece under my own name so highly that no terrestrial rag could afford to buy it from me was udderly priceless

06:15:48 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:10:49; mircea_popescu: ie, infantile delusions of sovereignity through "privacy". this doesn't work. sovereignity behaves publicly and with impunity. that is the fucking point.

06:16:40 ben_vulpes: saying "no" to a hundred thousand dollars from Conde Nast is worth approximately 5x the bezzlebuxx in question.

06:21:29 ben_vulpes: oh phf this is lovely

06:22:15 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << would it make sense to do this with edge-per-file and filenames on the edges?

06:22:15 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 23:34:09; phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/trb-transition-hunks.png same as before but with a separate edge per hunk

06:24:29 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389544 << i would also dearly like to hear about the setups people have in place for hacking on this codebase

06:24:29 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:11:50; mod6: it doesn't scale obviously for everyone to have these issues. for my own sanity, we need to make it so that a guy just basically does one thing and then it builds.

06:24:52 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform in particular

06:25:00 ben_vulpes: mod6 and trinque as well

06:27:18 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389171 << i have floor-to-ceiling mirrors, on which i use expos liberally for maths lessons for the girl and alphabet lessons for the kid

06:27:18 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:58:18; ascii_butugychag: with ink markers

06:28:03 ben_vulpes: but black is the only acceptable dry-erase color.

06:29:27 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388975 << a million goddamn fucking times this

06:29:27 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 18:58:55; ascii_butugychag: the overall idea i am trying to teach is that anybody changing a line of trb ought to be mindful of the work this creates for others

06:30:36 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388910 << and to think i was trying to gently guide the keyid in question to enlightenment

06:30:36 assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 18:31:10; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it bothered me that polarbeard apparently does not yet fully grasp that every line he writes is a unit of ~work~ for other people to do.

06:39:47 ben_vulpes: first: node.js. second: "naw, vpatches are for faggots". third: 2.5kloc patch degendering reference implementation log statements.

06:40:34 ben_vulpes: i am unconvinced that the six months have been paid, or that if they have any impression has been made.

07:06:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00055816 = 4.8281 BTC [-]

07:12:25 punkman: http://dpaste.com/3AGX101 that plog library in single .h file after some crud-snips

07:12:28 assbot: dpaste: 3AGX101: plog.h single file ... ( http://bit.ly/1VwCzt3 )

07:15:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73400 @ 0.00055794 = 40.9528 BTC [-] {2}

07:37:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6279 @ 0.00055821 = 3.505 BTC [+]

08:43:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38200 @ 0.00055939 = 21.3687 BTC [+] {2}

08:54:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00056046 = 9.752 BTC [+]

09:06:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 221850 @ 0.00056194 = 124.6664 BTC [+] {4}

09:31:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98900 @ 0.00056358 = 55.7381 BTC [+] {3}

09:52:27 thestringpuller: Has Gavin really been turned into kid who eats glue in class? Cause he really seems that way when he says stuff like:

09:52:31 thestringpuller: "Gavin: ... that's another form of centralization that I find much more worrying than network security. If the only entities participating are only high-net worth people, then those are pretty easy to get at and control."

09:52:51 thestringpuller: Yes cause people like mircea_popescu are so easy to control.

09:53:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00056263 = 6.3015 BTC [-]

09:53:09 thestringpuller: The SEC tried that you big dummy. Go back to MIT and continue to eat glue.

10:25:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00056403 = 18.1618 BTC [+] {2}

10:27:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36950 @ 0.00056468 = 20.8649 BTC [+] {3}

10:39:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73668 @ 0.00056545 = 41.6556 BTC [+] {4}

11:24:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23591 @ 0.00056555 = 13.3419 BTC [+]

11:43:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155105 @ 0.00056605 = 87.7972 BTC [+] {3}

11:56:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16070 @ 0.00056607 = 9.0967 BTC [+] {2}

11:57:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179230 @ 0.00056735 = 101.6861 BTC [+] {6}

12:38:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58015 @ 0.00056805 = 32.9554 BTC [+] {3}

13:06:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76203 @ 0.0005695 = 43.3976 BTC [+] {3}

13:27:06 punkman: http://www.economist.com/news/business/21688871-china-wants-become-superpower-semiconductors-and-plans-spend-colossal-sums

13:27:06 assbot: Explicit cookie consent | The Economist ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEwGzJ )

13:28:09 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller idiots actually moved to 100% discussing what i say, STILL can't fucking say my name ?

13:28:37 mircea_popescu: seems the matter of control is squarely resolved in the field. mp can get to anyone in usg, to anything to them he damned well pleases. so it goes.

13:39:12 mircea_popescu: !up AKWAnalytics

13:39:14 mircea_popescu: !up kimowski

13:40:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389782 << dude what in carnation are you on about. conde nast and money ?! wut ? 100k is their yearly budget for all of jezbel, you plan to churn out 10k attention whoring, vaguely concern trolling 500word pieces ?

13:40:05 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 06:16:40; ben_vulpes: saying "no" to a hundred thousand dollars from Conde Nast is worth approximately 5x the bezzlebuxx in question.

13:40:16 mircea_popescu: !up Frankie8

13:40:23 mircea_popescu: !up aknix

13:40:36 mircea_popescu: !up eamonnw

13:40:46 mircea_popescu: !up itkin-

13:40:54 mircea_popescu: !up kefkius

13:41:10 mircea_popescu: !up Ripchord

13:41:22 mircea_popescu: !up villan_

13:41:25 mircea_popescu: !up wpalczynski

13:41:34 mircea_popescu: check it out, it's new guy day over at #b-a farms!

13:41:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39450 @ 0.00056679 = 22.3599 BTC [-]

13:42:17 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389784 << you know, ~he~ wrote his own lispy v.

13:42:17 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 06:22:15; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << would it make sense to do this with edge-per-file and filenames on the edges?

13:44:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389800 << nb, turns out only like 600 or so.

13:44:06 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 07:12:25; punkman: http://dpaste.com/3AGX101 that plog library in single .h file after some crud-snips

13:44:36 mircea_popescu: i had archive.is preserve the dpaste just in case anyone wants it after it expires. assbot has the link.

13:45:42 kimowski: hi

13:45:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389822 << they can afford it. unlike the us.

13:45:42 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 13:27:06; punkman: http://www.economist.com/news/business/21688871-china-wants-become-superpower-semiconductors-and-plans-spend-colossal-sums

13:45:47 mircea_popescu: how goes ?

13:46:56 mircea_popescu: "so as to cease being dependent on foreign supplies." the chinese dream since forever. and they'll get it, too.

13:48:13 kimowski: 19s4DPDAw6F6nkjbUX1Rywb7vnjtGxdFX6

13:48:22 kimowski: script?

13:48:59 mircea_popescu: wut ?

13:49:01 AKWAnalytics: hello #bitcoin-assets. MP, thank you for voice. Cheers.

13:49:28 mircea_popescu: and who might you be AKWAnalytics ?

13:50:22 AKWAnalytics: Just some guy. I need to verify ident as AKWAnalytics. My real name is Adam Wyatt.

13:52:58 mircea_popescu: nice to meet you.

13:53:22 AKWAnalytics: Likewise.

14:00:33 mircea_popescu: "In the government?s earlier efforts to boost domestic manufacturing of solar panels and LED lamps, it spread its largesse among a lot of local firms, resulting in excess capacity and slumping prices. This time it seems to be concentrating its firepower on a more limited group of national champions. For instance, SMIC of Shanghai is set to be China?s champion ?foundry? (bulk manufacturer of chips designed by ot

14:00:33 mircea_popescu: hers). And HiSilicon of Shenzhen (part of Huawei, a maker of telecoms equipment) will be one of a select few champions in chip design.

14:00:33 mircea_popescu: Most intriguing of all, Tsinghua Unigroup, a company spun out of Tsinghua University in Beijing, has emerged in the past year or so as the chosen champion among champions, a Chinese challenger to the mighty Intel. Zhao Weiguo, the firm?s boss, started out herding goats and pigs in Xinjiang, a remote province in north-western China, to where his parents had been exiled in the 1950s, having been labelled as dissidents.

14:00:39 mircea_popescu: After moving to Beijing to study at the university, Mr Zhao made a fortune in electronics, property and natural resources, before becoming chairman and second-largest shareholder (after the university itself) at Tsinghua Unigroup."

14:00:43 mircea_popescu: talk about the chinese dream.

14:04:25 mats: moar arm garbage incoming

14:08:12 mircea_popescu: oya.

14:08:27 mircea_popescu: im rather curious what their strategic choice will be to unseat intel.

14:08:37 mircea_popescu: i'd imagine they'd opt for "countless multitude"

14:08:40 mircea_popescu: so arm.

14:30:51 mats: pls no

15:01:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00056678 = 29.0191 BTC [-] {2}

15:06:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148072 @ 0.00056276 = 83.329 BTC [-] {4}

15:09:40 mircea_popescu: why not ? will be great. lumbering chinese golem strong enough to fracture nato, force whatever remnants are actually worth saving into #b-a, crush the rest into alabama.

15:09:58 mircea_popescu: this actually played out once before and it was epic.

16:07:44 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389866 << correct. of pNohe, tablet, etc. rubbish.

16:07:44 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 14:08:37; mircea_popescu: i'd imagine they'd opt for "countless multitude"

16:07:47 asciilifeform: NOT workstations.

16:08:10 asciilifeform: and guess what - they PAY THE FUCKIN BRITISH for 'license' for arm!

16:08:16 asciilifeform: (it blew me away also when i learned this)

16:08:33 asciilifeform: not ONLY do they use the foreign devil's masks, complete with backdoor turds, but PAY.

16:09:36 asciilifeform: and loongson co. PAID for mips license ! and began using american mask, whole. i found this out and lost all interest because wtf.

16:09:48 asciilifeform: that's the thing with orcs, they are very easily bought.

16:10:20 asciilifeform: some cn politburo moron's daughters were admitted to princeton, or the like, in exchange for this 'strategic genius move'

16:10:29 asciilifeform: almost certainly.

16:10:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it happens to be the correct strat for the table.

16:10:58 mircea_popescu: and they'll get some bonus from redditard going "oh, this will make chips like 3d printable!11"

16:11:03 asciilifeform: which table? to be nato's mineral whore while paying for the privilege ?

16:11:18 mircea_popescu: you know on the long term the whore wins.

16:11:26 asciilifeform: i dun see it

16:12:14 asciilifeform: wake me up when an arm is designed on an arm workstation. anywhere on the planet.

16:12:21 asciilifeform: and when the chip masks are also laid out by arm cluster.

16:12:25 mircea_popescu: which is why the prisons are full of orcs with "booze and women put us here" rather than the other way around

16:13:44 mircea_popescu: no idea where this mineral idea came from, but if you look on the net china is an importer of minerals. be it canadian oil or euro gold, they mostly buy.

16:14:05 asciilifeform: these aren't minerals in the usual sense.

16:14:09 mircea_popescu: ...

16:14:23 asciilifeform: speaking of pb, rare earths, and the like.

16:14:54 mircea_popescu: they're getting a lot of mileage out of the rare earths.

16:15:02 mircea_popescu: much moreso than say saudis are getting out of their oil.

16:15:19 asciilifeform: re: arm, every few yrs i get an attack of the temptation to build a new workstation, and it never happens, and probably never will. would dearly love to buy something nato-free, wouldja tell me ~where~ ?

16:15:51 asciilifeform: (and if it takes 100 hours to build motherfucking trb, it is NOT a workstation!)

16:15:57 mircea_popescu: sure. i'll send the list to your cardano device!

16:16:03 asciilifeform: l0lz

16:16:28 mircea_popescu: im actually curious which happens first, trb hardware delivery or cn hardware delivery.

16:17:05 punkman: asciilifeform: there are more "server ARM" things coming out lately, might eventually have a workstation

16:17:07 asciilifeform: i always found it interesting that cn can not only not design own intel substitute, but cannot even ~produce shit copy~

16:17:25 asciilifeform: punkman: they are rubbish, every single one i ever saw. PLUS i'm not interested in nato arm !

16:17:33 asciilifeform: which is EVERY SINGLE ONE EVER made

16:17:42 mircea_popescu: you know what michael famously said ?

16:17:56 mircea_popescu: "i always found it interesting turks can not only not design own greek fire, but can't even produce shit copy!"

16:18:07 mircea_popescu: just as teh cannons were blaring.

16:18:09 asciilifeform: iirc they could not even use it when found

16:18:14 mircea_popescu: quite so.

16:18:41 asciilifeform: but actually i think mircea_popescu is right, we will have a 'triumph of the cockroaches' situation

16:18:51 mircea_popescu: it's the correct strategy for the table.

16:18:52 asciilifeform: 'plebe does not need to compile anything'

16:18:52 punkman: they wouldn't really sell a lot of bootleg-intels. shit ARM copy does power the megatons of phones though.

16:19:14 asciilifeform: punkman: correct, nobody gives a damn about workstations

16:19:19 mircea_popescu: when man fell asleep drunk, the molds get the food.

16:19:30 asciilifeform: but if intel were somehow to cease to exist, cn et al would feel the heat.

16:19:39 mircea_popescu: heh.

16:19:53 mircea_popescu: cn has made a career out of an inability to feel the heat.

16:20:09 asciilifeform: at that point, no arm either, just plow and kalash manufacture.

16:20:34 mircea_popescu: i'm kinda curious if they're in for another great leap forward actually

16:20:46 mircea_popescu: so far they were fortunate to get very liberal minded leadership

16:21:14 mircea_popescu: the ru "90yos get together to decide which 70yos should retire" thing in full swing, but producing much less spew than the ru version did

16:21:35 asciilifeform: possibly same spew but does not make it over the ocean ?

16:21:50 mircea_popescu: i do have some (limited) microphones in there tho

16:21:51 asciilifeform: cn is historically a champ at absorbing own spew

16:24:21 mircea_popescu: notice incidentally how isis isn't making a single move in THAT direction.

16:24:32 mircea_popescu: why not bomb nanking ? oh...

16:24:40 mircea_popescu: because they're US puppets. riiiight.

16:24:54 mircea_popescu: whole fucking thing's driven by china and they don't even have to do anything.

16:27:41 mircea_popescu: in other news, oldest txn in mempool ? first seen jan the 25th, usual 14.7kb crud with 0.00015 fees.

16:28:03 mircea_popescu: this faux "use" of bitcoin capacity has been ongoing for close to a year now.

16:28:42 asciilifeform: i will l0l to death when i find out that mircea_popescu's tx debugger was ~also~ lisp-based

16:28:58 mircea_popescu: and they are getting included, and basically EVERYONE is stuck storing 14.7kb in exchange for a one time payment of nothing at all in btc or about 5 cents to a third party

16:29:32 mircea_popescu: it's fucking ridiculous. the current cost of 14.7kb is something like

16:29:53 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 100/1000000000 * 14.7

16:29:54 gribble: 1.47e-06

16:30:23 mircea_popescu: so basically, if 10k people store the blockchain, it takes just as much in hard drive costs to store the damned txn as the miners get for including them.

16:30:35 asciilifeform: i don't recall anybody (other than that lukejr fella) crying when s.dice was doing this.

16:30:41 mircea_popescu: and this is no fancy sort of setup with raids and backups and whatnot. just man and his single cpu single hdd playstation.

16:31:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually the whole power ranger array threw a hissy fit, started bitching about censoring txn and whatnot,

16:31:29 mircea_popescu: i had to publicly bitchslap them and privately threaten burning and pillage to get them to shut the fuck up already.

16:31:42 mircea_popescu: but THAT was not only an economic activity - it was the only economic activity in bitcoin at the time.

16:31:53 mircea_popescu: this inept jockeying and pointless us-style politics bs...

16:32:00 asciilifeform: this i recall, pretty much nothing else yet worked

16:32:05 mircea_popescu: quite.

16:32:09 *: asciilifeform even played, once, on s.dice !

16:33:33 *: mircea_popescu recalls the times when provisioning a bitcoin node came with "just set quota 100 gb or something, it'll never get there".

16:33:41 asciilifeform: l0l aha

16:33:57 mircea_popescu: now i can't even buy SSDs - admitting i somehow wanted to - because lol what, sub tb space ?!

16:34:07 asciilifeform: i just got a tb ssd in

16:34:29 mircea_popescu: and even the current state of the art spindle drives... they won't last for ever. that'll be an interesting bitcoin-fs application

16:34:33 mircea_popescu: properly spanning volumes.

16:34:58 asciilifeform: incidentally there is a peculiar fact about the supply line for those. just about all of the retail vendors here in washingtonistan... ration them

16:35:12 mircea_popescu: leftover from the crisis days i imagine.

16:35:23 mircea_popescu: because that's how bureaucracy goes in and then never leaves.

16:35:42 asciilifeform: we needed half a dozen 1tb ssd last year at $plant and had to buy from that many vendors.

16:35:52 mircea_popescu: wtf is this inept shit anyway ?

16:36:05 *: mircea_popescu would have never bought. "sell me the half dozen or go to hell."

16:36:17 asciilifeform: the folk rumour is that somehow there is an agreement where 'cloud' turdfarms get first dibs

16:36:32 mircea_popescu: this is illegal and you have standing to fucking sue.

16:36:38 asciilifeform: and any reseller found to be selling freely to plebes, will get to pay retain rates to samsung itself

16:36:46 asciilifeform: sure as fuck

16:37:12 asciilifeform: perhaps we can win five cents a head like the paypall class action just did

16:37:14 mircea_popescu: "your honor, i tried to buy a hdd and they refused to sell me. vendor told me they have an illegal arrangement to promote the business interests of Amazon cloud services. I want 100 dollars in liquidated damages and 10bn in punitive damages kthx."

16:37:29 asciilifeform: why feed the lawyers.

16:37:32 mircea_popescu: you just file that, and let the good times roll in.

16:37:42 asciilifeform: they roll in. for lawyers.

16:37:58 mats: lol

16:38:18 mircea_popescu: just file an' see.

16:38:54 asciilifeform: anyway, as with the almost 100 year philips light bulb cartel, nobody who gives a fuck has any proof, nobody with proof - gives a fuck, etc.

16:39:11 mircea_popescu: eh, proof. you ever heard of discovery ?

16:39:29 mircea_popescu: they provide teh proof.

16:39:40 asciilifeform: proof that would get a law firm interested, is what i was thinking

16:39:48 mircea_popescu: you can file yourself.

16:39:55 asciilifeform: this requires time & money.

16:40:01 mircea_popescu: like 40 bucks or so iirc.

16:40:15 mircea_popescu: 65, something like that.

16:40:23 asciilifeform: and dance in the court yourself also?

16:40:26 asciilifeform: why not mircea_popescu do it ?

16:40:57 mircea_popescu: i don't live there nor have i yet run into the problem.

16:41:07 mircea_popescu: i do sue people that get in my way, tho.

16:42:05 mircea_popescu: at any rate, the plan's very simple, go to large nat'l retailer, load half a dozen disks, when the cashier refuses to sell them sucker punch him, get the police report to say he wouldn't sell you the drives, pay the whatever it is to have punched a dude and settle for whatever coupla mil they're willing to pay to avoid discovery.

16:42:32 mircea_popescu: your cut should be more or less the coupla mil, minus cab fare.

16:42:59 asciilifeform: afaik this is only at online retailers, physical shops simply charge 100-200 usd more

16:43:04 asciilifeform: and don't have the problem

16:45:09 mircea_popescu: if what you mean is that large buyers get volume discounts, well doh ?

16:45:16 asciilifeform: nono

16:45:27 asciilifeform: 'amazon' et al just have narrower margins.

16:56:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00056819 = 8.6365 BTC [+] {3}

17:46:16 ben_vulpes: eyy, mod6 so i just spun up v.pl on a new box and despite wget not being installed v.pl still claims successful sync

17:46:49 mod6: um...

17:46:56 mod6: oh, defect i guess?

17:47:35 mod6: i'll have to check it out. thanks for letting me know.

17:48:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056772 = 8.5726 BTC [-]

17:49:49 mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6 and trinque as well << hacking the codebase? << I just build the statically linked bin with rotor via the build-bitcoind script that everyone uses.

17:50:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389788 << what would ben_vulpes like to know ?

17:50:15 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 06:24:52; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform in particular

17:51:53 mod6: i do a lot of testing etc. often if I'm actually going to change a line of code, i'll press out a seperate branch call it 'foo', go in there copy a & b, then make changes in b. make a vpatch. drop it in my live bitcoin branch, rebuild with the rotor. bunch of stuff.

17:56:04 ben_vulpes: (reminds me a bit of the "check every return code" naggum line)

17:58:08 mod6: i just re-read what I typed there (sorry, just woke up, slept like the dead), and i don't mean to make it sound like a single line, even if sometimes it is! i just make the changes i need, the most minimal changes possible, then drop 'em in and see.

17:58:32 asciilifeform: speaking of pc parts, found http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/15893/Novyj_korpus_Zalman_TNN500AF_ili_1_kilogramm_tishiny.html << ancient ru picture review of infamous ~entirely motherfucking silent~ pc chassis. good illustration of what this means. entirely unobtainable today at any price.

17:58:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO1VDy )

17:58:39 mod6: but, i typically don't hack straight on the built trb, ususally on a separate branch.

17:58:49 mod6: i use the built thing to test my code changes and other config changes.

17:59:18 asciilifeform: ftr i still use my original rotor build scripts.

17:59:34 asciilifeform: i don't need or want the www loading stuff for anything.

17:59:55 asciilifeform: in fact i think it ought to be abolished and replaced with pressed silver cd.

18:00:07 asciilifeform: it isn't as if the dependencies will EVER change !

18:01:38 asciilifeform: re: the hardware pr0n link earlier, it is a good example of what i call an ~iridium toilet~ - as DISTINCT from a golden toilet, it is a device that is build with 1) price is no object 2) NOT FOR showing off and playing idiot tlp rolex status games.

18:04:08 mod6: <+asciilifeform> in fact i think it ought to be abolished and replaced with pressed silver cd. << im not sure how to build this excatly. this is part of what we wanna talk about next week.

18:04:34 mod6: not only with the makefiles, but are we actually thinking about distributing all the deps ON CD?

18:04:37 asciilifeform: mod6: at the very least, all of the stuff presently loaded from www, could easily go on cd

18:04:42 asciilifeform: yes all of the deps

18:04:45 asciilifeform: why the hell not ?

18:04:58 asciilifeform: there is what, a few 100M of them ?

18:05:01 mod6: just a lot of 'em .

18:05:05 asciilifeform: half a dozen

18:05:34 mod6: yeah... there's a handful. i dunno, makes me nervous.

18:05:48 asciilifeform: and loading them from the jungle every time, not nervous ?

18:05:56 ben_vulpes: tres nervous.

18:06:12 mod6: the whole thing maybe lol.

18:06:15 ben_vulpes: we should really do a bsd, and sell the discs for a bitdime each.

18:06:20 mod6: ok, we can revisit this next week.

18:06:35 ben_vulpes: or rather, i'd like that.

18:06:46 asciilifeform: i will laugh my self ~to death~ if it turns out that wget was 0day'd

18:06:56 mod6: ben_vulpes: heheh. its more like: here's the source code, see what you can do with this. unless .1, then you can have CD and volla!

18:07:01 mod6: we're totally not going to do that btw.

18:07:37 asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a battlefield trb oughta be built on a virginal airgapped box.

18:07:57 asciilifeform: this means cd with known bits.

18:08:05 mod6: someone asked me why I don't create vpatches of the changes to V.

18:08:17 mod6: and that's basically because it's not "ready" per-se.

18:08:53 mod6: maybe in 6 months to a year, then we'll be in a spot where it's in a more hardened form. takes some time, and people using it to flush some of the shit out.

18:09:00 jurov: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/673724/d9809e674cde21df/ emacs does *what*?

18:09:02 assbot: Removing support for Emacs unexec from Glibc [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO2Zr2 )

18:09:27 jurov: "the Emacs unexec() function that converts the running program into a new executable."

18:09:54 asciilifeform: jurov: this is sorta like 'save-lisp-and-die' in the cl world

18:10:17 jurov: but to hardwire it in the build process and C library?

18:10:52 mod6: oh yeah, and i remember now...

18:11:09 asciilifeform: 'Stallman, though, thought that it would be better discussed in private: "This a sensitive issue; it is best to discuss it without an audience."' << sad.

18:11:54 mod6: <+asciilifeform> why the hell not ? << because i tried to kinda sorta do this already... buildroot is hardcoded to download (rsync) all of its deps and stuff it needs from net. we'd have to "hack" our own buildroot.

18:12:08 mod6: heh, kinda like V.

18:12:10 asciilifeform: it is necessary.

18:12:22 asciilifeform: and i will note that ~my~ v load NOTHING from the net.

18:12:34 asciilifeform: and i still see this is as the Right Thing.

18:12:47 asciilifeform: it is the responsibility of the operator to feed the hopper.

18:13:03 asciilifeform: how would you feel about a table saw that walks around looking for what to saw ?

18:14:02 mod6: i guess v99995 could rip all that stuff out. certainly would condense the code a bit.

18:15:48 ben_vulpes: i'm with stan, fwiw.

18:16:38 mod6: okie dokie.

18:16:50 ben_vulpes: a small step to the disc would be to slam buildroot, openssl, bdb and boost into a tar.gz and stick it on the website.

18:17:05 ben_vulpes: idem for the vpatches.

18:17:34 mod6: not sure i follow there, what'd be the techincal purpose of that?

18:17:59 ben_vulpes: rather than including procurement of deps in the build scripts, force users to actually download the deps themselves.

18:19:44 TomServo: or a nob to include a local path, else procurement?

18:21:12 mod6: TomServo: hey! did you ever get unwedged?

18:21:32 TomServo: Negative. Was just going to ask if there is any value in keep it..

18:21:45 TomServo: keeping it running*

18:21:52 mod6: i would 100% start over, including in your .bitcoin dir.

18:22:03 TomServo: will do

18:22:03 mod6: it doens't take long to pass that spot anyway.

18:22:16 mod6: alright, thanks, let us know.

18:26:28 jurov: <punkman> asciilifeform: there are more "server ARM" things coming out... << you really want like, 64 shitty cores on the workstation instead of 4x x86?

18:26:51 asciilifeform: jurov: i want a non-nato computer.

18:26:54 asciilifeform: is this hard to understand ?

18:27:06 asciilifeform: and yes, this means arm doesn't cut it even if somehow 500x faster.

18:27:09 jurov: i asked punkman, not you

18:27:12 asciilifeform: arm is a british design.

18:27:13 asciilifeform: ok

18:30:11 jurov: and i don't have anything to say about non-nato computers3

18:34:40 phf: ben_vulpes: so actually inside the patch hunks are grouped by files, what i was referring to as hunks are actually per file hunk groups. so in other word the graph is already edge-per-file. i added the labels but it looks dodgy http://glyf.org/tmp/labels1.png http://glyf.org/tmp/labels2.png

18:34:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nuXnGn )

18:34:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1nuXmCf )

18:35:11 ben_vulpes: aha, that's what i thought!

18:35:19 ben_vulpes: yeah, messy.

18:36:13 ben_vulpes: phf: is this mod6's svgerator or your own?

18:36:47 mod6: ok, well i did just rip out all the sync/init/mirrors parts of V

18:37:03 mod6: and it eliminates at least 167 lines of code.

18:37:12 asciilifeform: mod6: neato!

18:37:13 mod6: and seems to work ok... but i'll hvae to test this quite a bit.

18:37:15 ben_vulpes: (and the wget 0day!)

18:37:31 asciilifeform: phf: spiffy diagram, quite like what i had in mind originally in fact

18:38:04 mod6: is it worthwhile to rip out my graphing stuff out of V?

18:38:25 asciilifeform: phf: now, instead of the multiple arrows, which really don't convey any useful info, it would be interesting to vary the ~thickness~ of the lines based on the 'weight' of the change.

18:38:41 asciilifeform: mod6: not unless it could somehow exist separately

18:39:01 asciilifeform: the graph thing is very useful.

18:39:17 mod6: alright, fwiw, it does work. could use some more colorization and attention to details like you and Mr. P. have suggested.

18:39:32 asciilifeform: phf: ah i just noticed that you had the file changes marks. this ~is~ useful.

18:39:35 mod6: i just haven't focused on that part as much for obv reasons.

18:40:13 mod6: so -- i might need several weeks at min to test out v99995 of V

18:40:31 mod6: i gotta re-write a lot of automated tests and stuff too.

18:40:49 mod6: actually, it might just elimiate a bunch of tests.

18:41:43 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389596 << what would this be good for? you are welcome to sign + post the binaries to ml yourself

18:41:43 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 01:42:16; punkman: does the trb server have room for a buildatron that eats patches and craps out bitcoind's?

18:42:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115400 @ 0.00056589 = 65.3037 BTC [-] {4}

18:43:09 mod6: asciilifeform: while i'm on the subject (and anyone else for that matter): is there anything else that should be excised from the current V [v99996] ?

18:43:17 mod6: aside from the sync/mirrors/init stuff?

18:43:48 mod6: i'd like to get this into "battle-ready" shape once and for all.

18:44:51 mod6: also, hehe, i downloaded this scheme interpreter to play with on my phone.

18:45:05 mod6: its pretty funky.

18:47:19 phf: asciilifeform: right, it's a state transition graph, with edges corresponding to file changes

18:53:10 phf: asciilifeform: http://glyf.org/tmp/war-room.png

18:53:26 asciilifeform: neato

18:53:45 phf: that one looks pretty cool

18:54:37 mod6: cool

18:54:47 asciilifeform: war room!

18:54:48 asciilifeform: l0l!

18:55:05 asciilifeform: for completeness, arrows oughta be red, on black

18:55:11 phf: haha

19:00:22 ben_vulpes: heh

19:03:41 asciilifeform: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3027924/it-industry/obama-wants-4b-for-more-computer-science-education.html << from the l0ltr0ns

19:03:42 assbot: Obama wants $4B for more computer science education | Computerworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1QO7IZN )

19:04:50 asciilifeform: cocktail of lulz

19:05:02 asciilifeform: such as: microshit in charge of 'computer education'

19:05:09 asciilifeform: and 'The timing of Saturday's announcement is slightly awkward for the White House. On Friday, security researcher Ashkan Soltani revealed that he was denied a security clearance to work there as a senior advisor to U.S. CTO Megan Smith. While Soltani declined to speculate on the government's reason to refuse the clearance, he previously worked with the Washington Post on analyzing documents from NSA leaker Edward Snowden.'

19:05:32 asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/ashk4n/status/693221584933363712 << i have no idea who he is/was, but this is hilarious

19:06:28 asciilifeform: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/white-house-tech-researcher-denied-security-clearance-edward-snowden-nsa << moar from the other usa

19:06:29 assbot: White House denies clearance to tech researcher with links to Snowden | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1PHcyCJ )

19:09:21 asciilifeform: aryans only plox !

19:16:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40895 @ 0.00056178 = 22.974 BTC [-] {2}

19:18:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39905 @ 0.00056028 = 22.358 BTC [-]

19:21:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82382 @ 0.00056849 = 46.8333 BTC [+] {2}

19:30:30 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389999 << just as it should be

19:30:30 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 17:51:53; mod6: i do a lot of testing etc. often if I'm actually going to change a line of code, i'll press out a seperate branch call it 'foo', go in there copy a & b, then make changes in b. make a vpatch. drop it in my live bitcoin branch, rebuild with the rotor. bunch of stuff.

19:31:33 mircea_popescu: in... other ? news, http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/world/americas/argentina-scrambles-to-fight-biggest-plague-of-locusts-in-60-years.html

19:31:37 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1QOaBtn )

19:32:26 ben_vulpes: think they're going to try the sterile males trick?

19:32:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390020 << they do get signed. seems a minor point, how you get them.

19:32:50 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:05:48; asciilifeform: and loading them from the jungle every time, not nervous ?

19:33:12 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i think they're going to try the sit around and talk about it while it goes away or whatever trick

19:33:16 mircea_popescu: they are, after all, americans.

19:33:18 ben_vulpes: paha

19:34:10 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390029 << da fuck are you on about, bitcoin nodes connect to internet.

19:34:10 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:07:37; asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a battlefield trb oughta be built on a virginal airgapped box.

19:34:25 asciilifeform: BUILT

19:34:35 asciilifeform: as in, compiled.

19:35:20 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390128 << this is pointedly mistaken. pgp messages are ALSO signed, yet we use airgapped boxes. why?

19:35:20 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 19:32:50; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390020 << they do get signed. seems a minor point, how you get them.

19:35:21 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1390047 << how do you feel about a slut walking around looking for a cock to suck ?

19:35:21 assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 18:13:03; asciilifeform: how would you feel about a table saw that walks around looking for what to saw ?

19:35:25 mircea_popescu: what, all tied to walls all day long ?

19:36:05 asciilifeform: building battlefield crypto bin on a box with no nic is the Right Thing.

19:36:15 mircea_popescu: looky : your design whereby a better water piping system consists of introducing a one foot gap somewhere so people can be employed to run the water across in buckets isn't as brilliant as it seems.

19:36:27 mircea_popescu: there's a time and place for all things.

19:36:33 asciilifeform: it isn't brilliant or sexy, but it is necessary.

19:36:41 asciilifeform: wget entails a vast shitstack.

19:36:51 mircea_popescu: if the machine is never going to connect to the internet, building on it airgapped is sane.

19:36:55 asciilifeform: and a box on the other end, incidentally.

19:37:03 mircea_popescu: if the machine will connect ot the internet anyway, what the fuck do you imagine "airgapping" it does ?

19:37:10 asciilifeform: not IT

19:37:15 asciilifeform: the ~build~ box

19:37:18 asciilifeform: see the difference ?

19:37:25 mircea_popescu: no.

19:37:26 asciilifeform: wasn't speaking of the ~run~ box

19:37:39 mircea_popescu: but the convenience here is exactly that i just compile on the run boxes.

19:38:24 asciilifeform: i get that this is convenient. i did this with some of my nodes. but ultimately this is a sinful sort of convenience.

19:38:34 mircea_popescu: which is how i discovered yest that for instance we have an undocumented "bc" dependency in the build tree

19:38:42 asciilifeform: let me guess, buildroot's.

19:38:52 mircea_popescu: all convenience is sinful by this measure. there's nothing wrong with a little sin.

19:39:38 mircea_popescu: now, mind, i don't think it's wrong to have a cast cd of the thing, just like i don't think it's wrong to have an iridium idol of the "meter" somewhere in france

19:39:54 asciilifeform: entirely wrong analogy. the point of cd is to have 10,000 iridium metres.

19:40:00 mircea_popescu: but don't expect me to go to paris every time i'm about to fit tits for corsets.

19:40:09 asciilifeform: let'em diddle the disk on ~everybody's~ desk.

19:40:22 mircea_popescu: even so.

19:40:33 asciilifeform: let's put it this way, that bdb tarball ain't ever chaning

19:40:35 asciilifeform: *changing

19:40:38 mircea_popescu: understand that introducing the ability to read cds is an unneeded kludge.

19:40:39 asciilifeform: ditto bdb

19:40:45 phf: asciilifeform: http://glyf.org/tmp/war-room2.png not quite right, but i like it

19:40:48 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1QObxhu )

19:40:48 mircea_popescu: the bitcoin machine HAS TO internet

19:40:49 mircea_popescu: it does not have to cd.

19:40:58 asciilifeform: build machine doesn't.

19:41:07 asciilifeform: plus the purpose of the cd is pointedly NOT to be read each time.

19:41:10 asciilifeform: but as a standard.

19:41:14 mircea_popescu: so then you internet a signed binary over rather than a v tree. meh.

19:41:15 asciilifeform: you can push a tarball to your online box.

19:41:31 mircea_popescu: i much prefer building on the dest box whenever feasible.

19:41:36 asciilifeform: do you see the point of the openbsd cd ?

19:41:40 asciilifeform: i - do.

19:41:47 mircea_popescu: i also never used it.

19:41:54 mircea_popescu: i did use the old debian cds, back in the day.

19:42:08 mircea_popescu: but that because internets sucked then

19:42:16 asciilifeform: they suck today.

19:43:31 mircea_popescu: i don't even see the value of maintaining the cd as a thing in the world. it can go the way of the celuloid film afaic.

19:43:46 asciilifeform: it is similar to the value of ~paper~

19:44:02 asciilifeform: bits that enemy cannot flip no matter how much he tries.

19:44:06 mircea_popescu: according to proponents. it's similar to the value of vinyl, in reality.

19:44:10 danielpbarron: the point of openbsd cd is to compare against downloaded version, no?

19:44:12 mircea_popescu: paper, i write and read with my own hands.

19:44:15 mircea_popescu: cds, not.

19:44:33 mircea_popescu: so paper is in this sense the same as --clearsign. a cd is not that, not even remotely.

19:44:45 asciilifeform: aluminum cd, in inert atmosphere, will easily outlast parchment.

19:44:50 mircea_popescu: and also it's trivial to rewrite a cd. most of them are rewritable realy.

19:45:00 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu : FORGET about the rewritables!!!

19:45:06 asciilifeform: they were NOT in the conversation.

19:45:11 mircea_popescu: they are rewritable to some degree whether you wantthem to be or not.

19:45:14 asciilifeform: SPECIFICALLY aluminum pressed cd.

19:45:19 asciilifeform: and no, it motherfucking is not.

19:45:22 mircea_popescu: heh

19:45:22 asciilifeform: go, rewrite 1 bit for me.

19:45:55 danielpbarron: get nubbins` or someone to make some nice artwork on it and i'll buy

19:46:08 asciilifeform: in order for the idea to have any meaning, it has to be a pressed cd.

19:46:16 asciilifeform: (yes, with the glass die, and whole orchestra)

19:46:24 mircea_popescu: so to summarize : a) they're less resilient than you imagine them to be ; b) they're more rewritable than you imagine them to be ; c) keepi9ng them around requires keeping a whole pile of kludge that never worked right (cd drivers etc).

19:46:36 asciilifeform: demonstrate rewriting of al pressed disk plox ?

19:46:36 mircea_popescu: you wanna write trb by hand on stone, fine.

19:46:42 asciilifeform: srsly

19:46:54 mircea_popescu: you wanna press a vinyl copy of it... whatevs floats your boat but dun go all fetish-hypster on me

19:47:40 asciilifeform: and what 'cd drivers.' modern drives plug through usb and enumerate as mass storage std.

19:47:51 asciilifeform: if you can connect any external disk, you can connect cdrom reader.

19:47:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can we agree at least on the concept that the notation you'll use consists of making different sized holes for 0s and 1s ?

19:48:12 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they aren't simply 'different sized holes', there is reed-solomon encoding

19:48:18 mircea_popescu: ...

19:48:26 mircea_popescu: yes or no will suffice.

19:48:27 asciilifeform: it is not enough to burn an extra hole with gigantic laser, if that is what you were thinking.

19:49:32 asciilifeform: (incidentally this is a first-class bitch to do with aluminum, esp. if you want the result to be visually inconspicuous, and not, say, a hole through the WHOLE disk sandwich.)

19:49:53 asciilifeform: it has good thermal conductivity. i can't make so much as a dent in aluminum foil with 40W co2 tube.

19:50:13 asciilifeform: there is a reason why cd-r uses dye rather than metal for the burn layer.

19:50:52 mircea_popescu: none of this is really germane.

19:50:56 asciilifeform: but let's posit an enormous tube. you will need to use excimer laser, i suspect. disk - will warp.

19:51:04 mircea_popescu: the cd remains a sort of vinyl disc, for a, b and c above.

19:51:13 asciilifeform: it is germane if it illuminates the hypothesis of 'can't quietly flip a bit on this'

19:51:22 asciilifeform: thus far - it stands.

19:51:59 mircea_popescu: it's more or less a 1966 argument that "it is not possible to alter a vinyl disc once printed because hurr durr the plastic will melt"

19:52:12 asciilifeform: 'a' is lunacy - there is NO more durable machine-readable storage presently known.

19:52:33 asciilifeform: cd laughs at magnetic field, at electrostatic discharge, has nothing that self-oxidates if in inert atmosphere.

19:52:42 asciilifeform: does not conduct current.

19:52:43 asciilifeform: etc

19:53:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, i gotta go to town. we can continue this when i'm back, but less symbolistic fetishism, more alphabetic monotheism plox.

19:53:14 asciilifeform: 'b' is an interesting hypothesis and i would pay to watch it demonstrated.

19:53:39 asciilifeform: 'c' is more defensible but we all have crates of usb cdrom readers.

19:53:48 *: asciilifeform also bbl

20:16:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10975 @ 0.00056441 = 6.1944 BTC [-] {2}

20:19:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155458 @ 0.00057014 = 88.6328 BTC [+] {3}

20:27:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29300 @ 0.00057049 = 16.7154 BTC [+]

20:28:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49507 @ 0.00057198 = 28.317 BTC [+] {3}

20:36:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29350 @ 0.00057217 = 16.7932 BTC [+]

20:48:55 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 423 @ 0.00284835 = 1.2049 BTC [-] {7}

20:57:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71400 @ 0.00057049 = 40.733 BTC [-] {2}

21:10:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18156 @ 0.00056947 = 10.3393 BTC [-] {3}

21:58:14 phf: can someone with a full press (including shiva 2) verify that this is remotely correct hashes http://paste.lisp.org/display/306216 ?

21:58:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki2WCp )

22:06:18 mod6: i can take a look, give me a few.

22:15:27 mod6: ok do i understand this right? (i haven't done this since before the re-bake of tinyscheme)

22:15:30 mod6: i need this:

22:15:31 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html

22:15:33 assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SN6qPP )

22:15:35 mod6: and this:

22:15:47 mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html

22:15:47 assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )

22:21:25 mod6: and speaking of which, i'd also like to note that all of the sigs (seals) in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html are misnamed. http://dpaste.com/1KRXSBM.txt

22:21:25 assbot: [BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SfJl8P )

22:21:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki4GLR )

22:21:56 mod6: for the sake of this test, i'll just rename these in my .seals dir as they should be.

22:26:11 mod6: http://dpaste.com/2Q73DJV.txt

22:26:12 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki58K3 )

22:27:49 mod6: ok pressed out & compiling...

22:28:22 mod6: if this works, i'll do a clean and then grab the file hashes.

22:32:01 mod6: ok compiled cleanly.

22:40:45 mod6: with V [v99996] pressed out cleanly when:

22:40:46 mod6: ./v.pl p v rotor/TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch

22:41:32 mod6: http://dpaste.com/26FWQ55.txt

22:41:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6moM )

22:44:29 mod6: here, phf, this one is sorted: http://dpaste.com/3WNFNYA.txt

22:44:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6BjE )

22:44:54 mod6: awe crap, sorry my manifest file is in the list.

22:45:36 mod6: here: http://dpaste.com/27R03Q0.txt

22:45:37 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ki6GUz )

22:47:49 mod6: looks like our header files differ for sure.

22:50:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66243 @ 0.00056278 = 37.2802 BTC [-] {3}

22:52:10 mod6: yeah, we got a bunch of files that differ. but i might have built something that you haven't.

23:32:44 phf: mod6: thanks! well more common then different

23:34:17 phf: i pressed it programmatically, without "patch" utility, before leaving home, so didnt have time to test it

23:35:25 phf: so its encouraging that at least some files match

23:38:10 mod6: ah, ok. cool.

23:38:39 mod6: asciilifeform will have to confirm/deny that i used the correct patches.

23:39:12 shinohai: >.>

23:40:05 shinohai: Gonna try another 99996 build

23:43:22 mod6: ah ok. just to see if you hit that same PERL_MM_OPT thing? or just on another OS?

23:43:40 mod6: we need to get that script into deedbot so we can update the wiki

23:49:54 shinohai: I'm doing a fresh, vanilla image so imma see what happens.

23:55:30 mod6: coo

23:59:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57496 @ 0.00056576 = 32.5289 BTC [+] {2}