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Transcript for 30-04-2015, 723 lines:

00:01:59 Pierre_Rochard: pacioli accounting software preview: http://pacio.li/FinancialStatements/IncomeStatement/BTC/Month/Current

00:02:00 assbot: Pacioli ... ( http://bit.ly/1duInDJ )

00:02:14 Pierre_Rochard: click around, let me know if anything busts

00:02:38 Pierre_Rochard: (and any other feedback)

00:04:42 mircea_popescu: lol uncategorized everything!!11

00:04:52 mircea_popescu: what sort of an example are you setting for business people such as myself!@

00:08:14 Pierre_Rochard: haha, well, some random categorizations will be in the next iteration of the test data generation script

00:09:04 mircea_popescu: :p

00:13:23 Pierre_Rochard: the core accounting part is stable at this point, the treasury part needs a major overhaul, and documentation / source code access will be in place before the next halving

00:14:11 mircea_popescu: it doesnt even say if its gaap or what

00:15:14 Pierre_Rochard: it’s definitely gaap at this point

00:16:08 Pierre_Rochard: in fact the database tables and query structures are as close to perfect accounting theory as you’ll get

00:16:49 Pierre_Rochard: but most of gaap is about how to book specific transactions (for example expense vs capitalize)

00:17:18 Pierre_Rochard: so it’s gaap if a good accountant is using pacioli, it’s some non-gaap thing otherwise

00:33:10 mircea_popescu: well... you see what im saying ?

00:34:17 Pierre_Rochard: I don’t… gaap or non-gaap depends 90% on the user, 10% on the software - the software is at 11%

00:35:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12222 @ 0.00029587 = 3.6161 BTC [+] {2}

00:35:12 bitstein: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Spinal_Tap_-_Up_to_Eleven.jpg

00:35:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1zrm9wd )

00:49:40 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard a large chunk of the utility here is education, seeing how a bunch of people are going to get involved in a sort of you know, de novo, revolutionary economic process.

00:49:54 mircea_popescu: so giving them stuff like - well documented drop lists ? huge win.

00:50:04 mircea_popescu: sorta funel the process of selection towards gaap/sanity

00:50:12 Pierre_Rochard: I see, completely agree

00:50:19 mircea_popescu: TON of work on yoru side

00:50:30 mircea_popescu: but the good sort of work, the sort that creates a barrier to entry.

00:50:36 Pierre_Rochard: started here, but definitely ton of work: http://rochard.org/pacioli/docs/Chart_of_Accounts

00:50:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q04hMM )

00:50:40 Pierre_Rochard: yes

00:50:53 mircea_popescu: myeah. it WILL help if it leverages the power of html to literally funel people into sense.

00:50:59 mircea_popescu: "pick from here, then here then here".

00:52:48 Pierre_Rochard: that’s a great approach, I was stuck in the mindset of “I’m coding this for accountants”, rather than “I’m coding this to create accountants”

00:54:39 mircea_popescu: yep, you got it.

00:55:07 mircea_popescu: and even if the resulting "accountants" won't be very good by the way this is measured today (a "stickler" approach - great emphasis on detail)

00:55:22 mircea_popescu: if they have ~fundamental~ understanding as a result of interacting with your thing, you scored major points.

00:56:58 Pierre_Rochard: right, agreed

00:59:42 mircea_popescu: there's actually, how did that quote go...

01:00:02 mircea_popescu: "I have often felt that programming is an art form,

01:00:02 mircea_popescu: whose real value can only be appreciated

01:00:02 mircea_popescu: by another versed in the same arcane art;

01:00:02 mircea_popescu: there are lovely gems and brilliant coups

01:00:02 mircea_popescu: hidden from human view and admiration, sometimes forever,

01:00:02 mircea_popescu: by the very nature of the process."

01:00:13 mircea_popescu: applies to accounting just as well, except even fewer people know.

01:00:38 mircea_popescu: and i don't even mean it in the made-for-tv "tax dodge11!1!" sense.

01:00:45 mircea_popescu: i mean it in the bluntest "make sense of reality" sense.

01:02:41 Pierre_Rochard: indeed, though I think the gems will become apparent as pacioli becomes integrated with a wallet and the WoT. writing the core accounting part was necessary because of all the crufted OSS gnucash/openerp monoliths

01:04:02 Pierre_Rochard: the end goal is to have a currency -> payments -> accounting -> finance process that is well oiled and a joy to use

01:04:29 Pierre_Rochard: off to dinner

01:11:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31608 @ 0.00029841 = 9.4321 BTC [+] {2}

01:30:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9933 @ 0.00030179 = 2.9977 BTC [+]

01:37:03 mircea_popescu: yeah

01:39:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26032 @ 0.00030474 = 7.933 BTC [+]

02:03:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11050 @ 0.00031148 = 3.4419 BTC [+] {3}

02:22:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24633 @ 0.00030354 = 7.4771 BTC [-]

02:41:33 decimation: asciilifeform: more on ada: http://www.adacore.com/academia/universities/ < the list of us universities has a conspicuous absence of 'popular' tech schools

02:41:34 assbot: Universities | Academia | AdaCore ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpqUs2 )

02:42:07 decimation: this is a feature - not a bug - if we agree with the notion that anything that keeps the masses of cool kids away is a good thing

02:44:14 mircea_popescu: what'd be popular tech schools ?

02:44:28 mircea_popescu: like georgia tech or what

02:47:48 decimation: yeah, ivies, major land grant schools

02:48:10 decimation: there are a couple of those on the list, but mostly it's made up of small private schools and vocational schools

02:48:17 mircea_popescu: so more like mit ? that's notrly popular is it ?

02:48:30 decimation: well, mit is probably the most notable school in the list

02:48:32 mircea_popescu: or you mean popular as in, sought after. not as in, where commoners gather

02:48:38 decimation: yeah, sought after

02:52:04 decimation: I think mit actually has a significant percentage of high school valedictorians

02:56:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2000 @ 0.00184061 = 3.6812 BTC [+] {14}

02:58:30 decimation: mircea_popescu: so have you been poking around centos or scientific linux?

02:58:35 mircea_popescu: mnope

02:58:49 decimation: I assumed based on your epel comment

02:59:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1000 @ 0.0016191 = 1.6191 BTC [-] {2}

02:59:39 mircea_popescu: ah, installed nginx, yeah

02:59:44 mircea_popescu: i guess this qualifies.

03:01:19 decimation: if you want something that can serve static pages https://www.unix4lyfe.org/darkhttpd/ < fits in head

03:01:20 assbot: darkhttpd ... ( http://bit.ly/1IptD4B )

03:01:56 mircea_popescu: nah, i run wordpress

03:03:50 decimation: I assume you saw http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/27/wordpress_zero_day_xss/

03:03:51 assbot: Comments considered harmful: WordPress web hijack bug revealed • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ipu13c )

03:05:18 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1116111 :p

03:05:18 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 18:06:30; mircea_popescu: 2.x immune.

03:05:35 decimation: ah heh

03:07:47 mircea_popescu: not upgrading pays.

03:09:29 decimation: yes indeed. which is why most 'serious business' uses old redhat

03:19:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 700 @ 0.0016191 = 1.1334 BTC [-]

03:21:43 decimation: lol some guy was reading #b-a and has an anti-tcp agenda http://notcp.io/

03:21:44 assbot: The NoTCP Manifesto ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpwvhS )

03:22:15 mircea_popescu: wait, node.js is performant ?!

03:22:21 mircea_popescu: what is this, the future ?

03:23:03 mircea_popescu: "Chukka-booted footsteps" ahaha ok.

03:26:12 decimation: yeah I'm not sure if the guy is joking or not

03:33:07 mircea_popescu: hey various folks whose pgp keys i've signed at teh conference key signing party... you're supposed to also sign mine!

03:33:28 decimation: !up gabriel_laddel

03:33:31 gabriel_laddel: thank you

03:33:36 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1115832 << We're discussing the same thing. If the program has "marked" all instances of $WHATEVER I can trivally add "Would you like me to a) check all places where it's called and report what I can figure out about the context ? b) iterate you through all locations ? c) change it back ? d) run a trace see what happens ?" on top of it.

03:33:36 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 14:29:15; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "why are the holes not marked or filled?" << ftr this is not what i was contemplating. what I was contemplating is, why the fuck don't defaults pop up. bring back the fucking paperclip, put it the ONE place where it makes fucking sense. "hey john, I see you changed FuckOff() from bool to int. This function is called 82 places in 22 files. Would you like me to a) check all places where

03:33:41 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1115836 << lol

03:33:41 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 14:31:02; Adlai: aha, the good old C-c C-w C-c

03:33:47 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1115871 << If the "rules" of human language are formalized it becomes much easier to break them in interesting ways. One could use the output of a shannonizer to inform word choice for his story, enforcing that each word is followed by one of the top 10 least likely words in the whole of the language up to this point. I suspect that such a tale would be great fun to re

03:33:47 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 14:41:31; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "Why isn't there grammer/spellchecking for my comments? " << this i can readily answer. because I am what's called "a creator of language", which is to say one of those people who, through his usage, ENACTS the rules all amateur users of language MUST follow, as a mark of their linguistic inferiority. like fucking shakespeare.

03:33:47 gabriel_laddel: ad, as most people would immediately recoil in horror, seeing something so very different what they're used to.

03:33:52 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1115889 << and I will point out that you're wrong. The simplicity of lisp vs. C is absolutely due to the inherrent properties of the respective artifacts. Seriously, MMM vs GC, parsing vs. not, no bignums vs. numerics - "abstractions push upward" (TM).

03:33:52 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 15:00:28; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-04-2015#1115422 << this, i will point out, is in no way related to any inherent property of either (unless you mean lisp is inherently going to fail), but simply a function of context. had the linux kernel been implemented in sclb, and had the past 20 years been spent with scbl being "the cool language", you'd be having zhe pronouns and assorted idiocy to the tu

03:33:57 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1116046 << http://gabriel-laddel.github.io

03:33:57 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 17:05:19; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-04-2015#1115613 << dude srsly. GET A BLOG ALREADY.

03:33:58 assbot: SPOILER ALERT ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ipy0Nb )

03:34:01 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1116069 << b/c it doesn't belong in a blog post.

03:34:01 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 17:12:02; mircea_popescu: and why the fuck am i referencing pastebins.

03:34:02 mircea_popescu: holy shit sherlock

03:34:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 620 @ 0.0016191 = 1.0038 BTC [-]

03:34:09 decimation: heh

03:34:50 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel natural languages are not formalizable.

03:34:54 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-04-2015#1116068 << see the lisp machine etc.

03:34:54 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 17:11:55; mircea_popescu: "The studious will note that this is a completely solved problem that no machine learning algorithm will be able to approximate anytime soon." i'm sorry...what ? solved how ?

03:35:18 gabriel_laddel: Erik Naggum disagreed

03:35:28 mircea_popescu: erik naggum was not a linguist.

03:35:29 gabriel_laddel: Lemme find the quote

03:40:40 gabriel_laddel: apart from this, I have written Emacs Lisp functions to make a statement into a question and vice versa, to join and split sentences (not quite as trivial as it sounds), to upgrade from singular to plural and vice versa, to change the person from second to third and vice versa, et cetera. significant parts of grammar is the way it is to maintain correspondence between numbers and persons and tenses and such, and sin

03:40:40 gabriel_laddel: ce this is mostly redundant, it can be also automated. this is stuff that takes just a bit of time to do, but when a whole paragraph of text needs to be changed from second person singular or from third person singular to third person plural, it's nice to do that with a couple keystrokes. it's also nice to see that the pronouns are easily traceable to their origins, and don't get messed up in several layers of refer

03:40:40 gabriel_laddel: ences. if my code can't figure it out, chances are so won't anybody else, at least not easily.

03:40:46 gabriel_laddel: ^ that is formalized enough for me.

03:41:26 mircea_popescu: "formalized enough" eh ?

03:42:42 gabriel_laddel: Would you agree that a shannonizer is a formalization?

03:43:02 mircea_popescu: i would agree that the counting horse is a remarkable horse,

03:43:08 mircea_popescu: but i won't agree he's a mathematician.

03:43:22 gabriel_laddel: wait what

03:43:36 mircea_popescu: a shannonizer is a formalisation, but not of natural language.

03:43:57 gabriel_laddel: I'll agree to that.

03:44:15 decimation: all models are wrong - some are useful

03:45:08 decimation: ^George Box

03:45:19 mircea_popescu: if a purpose is stated.

03:45:47 gabriel_laddel: wtf I can't find the source for that quote anymore

03:46:05 gabriel_laddel: anyways - full quote is available here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/147662

03:46:05 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpzB5E )

03:46:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.samueljohnson.com/apocryph.html#20 << check it out btw.

03:46:58 assbot: The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page: Apocrypha ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpzFlM )

03:49:15 mircea_popescu: "I have typed an average of 21.3 keystrokes per second" eh gtfo.

03:54:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00029337 = 4.1512 BTC [-]

04:00:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45460 @ 0.00030024 = 13.6489 BTC [+] {3}

04:06:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00030732 = 3.7186 BTC [+]

04:12:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36190 @ 0.00030434 = 11.0141 BTC [-]

04:19:49 mircea_popescu: "to maintain correspondence between numbers and persons and tenses and such, and since this is mostly redundant, it can be also automated. this is stuff that takes just a bit of time to do, but when a whole paragraph of text " << such nonsense.

04:19:54 mircea_popescu: a fine example of "too easy".

04:38:27 asciilifeform: happy hitler's-brains-on-the-floor day.

04:38:45 asciilifeform: (and su flag on reichstag night.)

04:39:57 asciilifeform: decimation> asciilifeform: more on ada: http://www.adacore.com/academia/universities/ < the list of us universities has a conspicuous absence of 'popular' tech schools << 'where used' is by far the least appealing aspect of ada. as for 'where taught', the answer is largely nowhere. the kind of thinking implied by ada is a -culture- that has to be imparted.

04:39:59 assbot: Universities | Academia | AdaCore ... ( http://bit.ly/1FzaAUO )

04:41:10 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ah, installed nginx, yeah << on top of apache again ?

05:46:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24657 @ 0.0002909 = 7.1727 BTC [-]

05:52:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29769 @ 0.00029313 = 8.7262 BTC [+]

05:55:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00029732 = 1.8137 BTC [+] {2}

06:24:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25850 @ 0.00029805 = 7.7046 BTC [+]

07:42:25 davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-04-2015#1116571 <<< done, i also think i gave my gpg-fingerprint-imprinted bizcard to most peeps at c3 so time for some moar signing!

07:42:25 assbot: Logged on 30-04-2015 03:33:07; mircea_popescu: hey various folks whose pgp keys i've signed at teh conference key signing party... you're supposed to also sign mine!

08:16:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00029805 = 1.371 BTC [+]

09:13:03 scoopbot_revived: Pings: 1

09:25:21 davout: ;;later tell Pierre_Rochard do you have some background to share regarding your accounting software? probably missed it if it has already been discussed

09:25:21 gribble: The operation succeeded.

09:25:48 davout: ;;later tell Pierre_Rochard /me is pretty interested

09:25:48 gribble: The operation succeeded.

09:37:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16890 @ 0.00029844 = 5.0407 BTC [+] {2}

09:54:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00029589 = 1.4499 BTC [-] {2}

11:03:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22510 @ 0.00030213 = 6.8009 BTC [+]

11:09:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.0002935 = 5.3417 BTC [-] {2}

11:39:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46287 @ 0.00028288 = 13.0937 BTC [-] {4}

12:13:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25248 @ 0.00028397 = 7.1697 BTC [+]

12:15:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9052 @ 0.00028397 = 2.5705 BTC [+]

12:31:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.0002812 = 6.0739 BTC [-]

12:33:53 pete_dushenski: ;;ticker

12:33:55 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 233.41, Best ask: 233.56, Bid-ask spread: 0.15000, Last trade: 233.64, 24 hour volume: 29719.49545302, 24 hour low: 224.0, 24 hour high: 236.71, 24 hour vwap: None

12:34:05 pete_dushenski: ;;bc,stats

12:34:09 gribble: Current Blocks: 354348 | Current Difficulty: 4.761056451347126E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 354815 | Next Difficulty In: 467 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 12 hours, 16 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47658271405.0 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.1002

12:34:34 pete_dushenski: g'mornin Pierre_Rochard

12:34:39 Pierre_Rochard: morning pete_dushenski

12:35:48 pete_dushenski: i see you've made some solid progress with pacioli.

12:35:56 pete_dushenski: you're going to make accountants out of us yet!

12:36:04 Pierre_Rochard: davout: I floated the idea last year - I’ve used a lot of different accounting software and never been satisfied - none of them use acccounting theory as the spec

12:39:07 Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: or at least make reasonable bookkeepers out of you, I couldn’t call someone an accountant if they don’t know how to do a multi-entity, multi-currency consolidation

12:39:36 Pierre_Rochard: which would be overkill - hire me instead!

12:40:03 pete_dushenski: multi-currency i understand, but what do you mean by 'multi-entity' ?

12:40:28 pete_dushenski: and hey, i'll take better bookkeeping!

12:40:34 Pierre_Rochard: for example you’re a 90% owner of a subsidiary in mexico, etc

12:41:25 Pierre_Rochard: the sub has its own set of books, you need to roll them up into the parent company’s, there are adjustments to made (like of the parent is lending money to the sub)

12:41:53 pete_dushenski: ah yes, complete 'accountant' territory, that.

12:42:35 pete_dushenski: i am but a simple man using simple spreadsheets.

12:43:47 Pierre_Rochard: that is the current state-of-the-art in bitcoin accounting

12:45:34 pete_dushenski: sort of like how a pointy rock was state-of-the-art tribal warfare 50,000 years ago.

12:45:56 pete_dushenski: "look how much more effective the pointy rock is than the blunt round rock!"

12:46:12 Pierre_Rochard: exactly, and I’m assembling an abrams tank, now I need to write up the user manual

12:47:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2800 @ 0.0016191 = 4.5335 BTC [-]

12:47:19 pete_dushenski: we need the "explain it to me like i'm 5 years old" approach

12:48:14 Pierre_Rochard: agreed, building something to explain was the first step, now the real work begins

12:48:49 pete_dushenski: keep it going :)

12:49:49 Pierre_Rochard: thanks, will do! I’m getting surgery on my right shoulder in a week, so I need to get some dictation software haha

12:50:22 Pierre_Rochard: (torn labrum from dislocation, not a major procedure)

12:50:22 pete_dushenski: surgery ?! dude... sports injury ?

12:50:50 Pierre_Rochard: originally dislocated while mountain biking, then again from skipping rope

12:52:12 pete_dushenski: oof. that's rough man.

12:52:28 pete_dushenski: how long is the expected recovery ?

12:53:09 Pierre_Rochard: 6 months of physical therapy

12:53:56 Pierre_Rochard: I’ll be typing after a month though

12:55:06 pete_dushenski: man i couldn't imagine a month without typing.

12:55:15 pete_dushenski: it'd be like a month without seeing.

12:55:47 pete_dushenski: well, Pierre_Rochard, wishing you a speedy recovery!

12:55:59 Pierre_Rochard: same, thanks!

12:57:53 pete_dushenski: "A man embarrassed in his circumstances, and conducting them imprudently, likes best to continue in the dark; he will not gladly reckon up the debtor entries he is charged with. But on the other hand, there is nothing to a prudent manager more pleasant than daily to set before himself the sums of his growing fortune. -J.W. von Goethe" << lovely quote btw.

12:59:12 pete_dushenski: http://myntex.ca/pgp-blackberry.php << i found this interesting because it's a local kid doing this on his own.

12:59:13 assbot: PGP BlackBerry Encryption • How BlackBerry PGP Works • Myntex ... ( http://bit.ly/1ztraEI )

12:59:44 pete_dushenski: i e-mailed him, he recommended using the blackberry 9900 (2011 vintage) or earlier

13:00:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.0002812 = 11.248 BTC [-]

13:00:33 pete_dushenski: apparently he has some large contracts already, something in the order of $6mn per year and no employees.

13:03:59 pete_dushenski: "For maximum security, our BlackBerry PGP encryption service utilizes AES 256 bit PGP encryption with a 4096 bit RSA key format." << also uses session keys, but these are presumably generated on the phone, so...

13:04:20 pete_dushenski: though the private master key is generated on a desktop.

13:05:57 mats: 'Custom encrypted domains' what

13:07:53 mircea_popescu: i don't get it. which is it ?

13:08:10 mircea_popescu: do they do the "rsa encryption of an aes symmetric key" thing ?

13:09:12 pete_dushenski: i dun follow that part at all. the pgp/rsa makes sense but where aes comes in is anyone's guess.

13:10:16 pete_dushenski: meh. not like i'm signing up anytime soon.

13:11:19 jurov: iirc pgp/rsa is computationally expensive, so it's only used to establish rsa keys

13:11:24 jurov: ssh does it same way

13:12:18 jurov: *establish aes keys

13:27:06 mircea_popescu: jurov gpg does the same thing, yeah, but then again that was the 80s.

13:27:24 mircea_popescu: funny how moore law is always there to justify doing something stupid, never to justify doing things like "rsa all the way - we can afford it now"

13:31:36 Pierre_Rochard: unrelated: http://boingboing.net/2015/04/17/why-is-your-millenial-crying.html

13:31:37 assbot: Why is your millenial crying? A guide for parents and other concerned parties, by Gemma Correll. - Boing Boing ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDhAlJ )

13:36:47 jurov: in this case it's not moore's law but bandwidth. you can't have megabytes/second with rsa, or if you do, battery dies

13:39:33 mircea_popescu: and in the lulz of today, http://dpaste.com/0BSP2VK

13:39:34 assbot: dpaste: 0BSP2VK ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDjQJV )

13:39:46 mircea_popescu: jurov how does a blackberry send megabytes/second ?

13:40:54 jurov: with 3G/4G modem?

13:41:13 mircea_popescu: so let me get this straight.

13:41:24 mircea_popescu: best secretary i eve rhad did 82 wpm.

13:41:34 mircea_popescu: naggum, through the magic of shoving lisp up his ass, types 180wpm

13:41:43 mircea_popescu: but obama and the rest of the blackberry users type... 500k wpm ?

13:41:58 jurov: butbutbutmultimedia!

13:42:00 mircea_popescu: on that litthe shitty keyboard ?

13:42:09 mircea_popescu: o, you need to encrypt teh multishittia, yeh, sure.

13:42:12 mircea_popescu: use AES FOR THAT!

13:44:11 jurov: well, you live on the sane planet where people send only typed text by email and other things by other channels

13:45:06 mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as mime

13:47:01 jurov: and? so the optimal thing would be to parse the email and encrypt some parts by rsa and some by aes or what?

13:48:17 mircea_popescu: iirc blackberry was positioning itself as "text only. for important folk".

13:48:31 jurov: was

13:48:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, optimal thing would be user specified, and full rsa option.

13:49:05 jurov: explain that as an admin to your CEO what that stuff means and why

13:49:19 mircea_popescu: eh, fire the ceo.

13:49:24 jurov: ...

13:51:25 jurov: one of my first job as admin were email servers. and from the beginning it was like "plz to raise limit on attachments" "plz why the email did not arrive yet" "plz why is the internet slow cant you, you know set some priorities for traffic"

13:52:15 jurov: now go explain encryption options

13:53:13 mircea_popescu: "rsa. use for text. rsa/aes. use for anything that's not text."

13:54:45 mircea_popescu: http://www.dailydot.com/politics/harvard-protest-primal-scream-run/ << where black lives that matter meet white cocks that are free!

13:54:46 assbot: Harvard students protesting police brutality clash with naked runners ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDngw3 )

13:55:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-04-2015#1116627 << i didn't actually run it, just, got curious as to what exactly fails to work.

13:55:34 assbot: Logged on 30-04-2015 04:41:10; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ah, installed nginx, yeah << on top of apache again ?

13:57:48 Pierre_Rochard: “For people to say black lives matter, and for the crowd to shout back ‘U.S.A.,’ which is upholding a system that is oppressing black people, I think that that is problematic,”

13:57:57 Pierre_Rochard: “problematic” is my favorite SJW word

13:58:06 mircea_popescu: direct soviet translation.

14:01:50 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-04-2015#1116690 << good for him.

14:01:50 assbot: Logged on 30-04-2015 13:00:33; pete_dushenski: apparently he has some large contracts already, something in the order of $6mn per year and no employees.

14:02:14 mats: sounds like an excellent scam

14:02:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00028479 = 3.9871 BTC [-]

14:03:21 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2012/desteapta-te-n-pula-mea-de-distractie/ << i might have found the tensest thing i wrote on fraudsters. wishing goodluck to anyone who's going to write a program to tokenize this text.

14:03:21 assbot: Desteapta-te-n pula mea de distractie on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDq78i )

14:10:36 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the impressive and simultaneously worrying aspect of the bb-pgp biz is that the owner was a former tradesman who apparently thought to himself "hey, you know what the market needs, properly encrypted messaging!"

14:10:36 scoopbot_revived: News! Flirting with the prettiest girl in school. URL: http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/30/flirting-with-the-prettiest-girl-in-school/

14:10:37 assbot: Flirting with the prettiest girl in school. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDsibR )

14:10:59 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski what trade ?

14:11:32 pete_dushenski: i want to say... plumbing. but i'll confirm. i know someone who knows him.

14:11:47 mircea_popescu: so have him drop by

14:12:26 mircea_popescu: "This, mystical domination, is easily the prettiest girl in school. She?s the most unattainable, the most lust-worthy, the most drool-inducing" << you know what veblen goods are ?

14:12:54 pete_dushenski: ... i do not.

14:12:57 mircea_popescu: because that's what #5 does, practically : it offers a model to explain and understand the otherwise insane, and otherwise never explain, luxury behaviour.

14:13:06 mircea_popescu: that it explains it does NOT reduce the insanity of it however.

14:13:49 mircea_popescu: veblen goods are goods which exhibit reverse price relation (demand increases as price increases, as opposed to how it normally goes).

14:15:23 pete_dushenski: agreed about the insanity of pursuing #5, no matter how useful of a model its pursuit may prove in hindsight.

14:16:03 mircea_popescu: right, just because prayer worked in the past is no reason to pray.

14:16:22 pete_dushenski: ah so veblen goods would be like that dentist's services i was mentioning the other day.

14:16:46 pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-04-2015#1113010

14:16:46 assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 16:32:38; pete_dushenski: like the dentist who's busy when priced competitively, wants to be less busy, jacks up his prices to the highest in town, and then has his doors beaten down with customers like never before.

14:17:49 pete_dushenski: re: prayer, not like i'm going to go eat a loaf of bread now either just because a pizza pinged off my immunoarmour

14:18:18 mircea_popescu: the thng with allergies, and especiaslly in young people, is that they do go away.

14:18:39 mircea_popescu: that's treatment : remove the allergen, give it a few years, try a minute dose.

14:19:27 pete_dushenski: well the treatment seems to be working!

14:19:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.0002873 = 2.126 BTC [+]

14:20:20 pete_dushenski: i tried a corona a few months, which are supposedly as low on the gluten scale as they come for normal beers, and i puked my guts out.

14:20:24 mircea_popescu: (they go away for the same reason vaccine-acquired immunity goes away, ftr)

14:20:27 pete_dushenski: so something's improved since then

14:21:15 mircea_popescu: great dress, great hooters. great hooters, great dress. http://41.media.tumblr.com/298434f59991ef25c4bf2b1f7d4c9ba7/tumblr_n4srktRyUd1txkuq7o1_1280.jpg

14:21:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JDvjZW )

14:21:18 mircea_popescu: the inseparable!

14:21:20 pete_dushenski: the memory b-cells don't last forever.

14:55:08 mircea_popescu: "When To Tell A Guy You Are Transgender by Whitey Niggerson -

14:55:08 mircea_popescu: >After first date and over the phone.

14:55:08 mircea_popescu: I agree. If you tell them upfront, they'll be weirded out. If you tell them in person, they might try to physically hurt you."

14:55:21 mircea_popescu: clearly, there's nothing wrong with this. everyone (else) is just mean evil and weird.

14:57:21 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: plz foar to nuke gravatar

14:58:34 pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: beleeting your e-mail did the trick.

14:59:09 ben_vulpes: pahahaha yeah okay i'll just ask you to do that every time i comment on contravex

14:59:44 pete_dushenski: or just you bigben@isbig.com or something

14:59:44 mircea_popescu: since somehow scoopbot missed http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-museum-of-the-national-bank-of-argentina/ (hey williamdunne how's that work ?), dedicating it to nubbins` an' asciilifeform by hand.

14:59:45 assbot: The museum of the National Bank of Argentina on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1EuZzBy )

15:01:47 pete_dushenski: mebbe scoopy no like photodump ?

15:02:49 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Scoop was down for a while, I committed an upgrade too early

15:03:08 mircea_popescu: does it keep a list of what it last posted so when it comes back up it can see if there's anything new ?

15:03:39 williamdunne: Yes but its not persistant

15:03:58 williamdunne: Thats one of the upgrades I need to make

15:04:02 mircea_popescu: so put it in a file or something yeah

15:04:03 ben_vulpes: > committed an upgrade << heh

15:04:36 ben_vulpes: young man, you have committed an outrageous upgrade for the most serene republic!

15:04:41 ben_vulpes: your reward is more demands!

15:04:50 mircea_popescu: :D

15:05:18 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Basically

15:06:06 mircea_popescu: mike_c svg fix confirmed!

15:06:24 mike_c: great

15:07:27 *: mircea_popescu is so enamoured with this svg thing.

15:07:27 *: mod6 looks

15:10:45 mod6: Well, the lordship updates seem to be in place nicely.

15:10:48 mod6: :]

15:11:06 mircea_popescu: mike_c q : how hard would it be to enforce fixed placement on the inner circle ? i dunno how they're placed now, but how about just divide 2pi to however many people and each gets that much sector

15:12:14 mircea_popescu: as opposed to now where 1.05-1.1 is five people from cazalla to mats.

15:12:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29400 @ 0.00028783 = 8.4622 BTC [+] {2}

15:14:04 mircea_popescu: hm, that might not be so clever, ends up crunching the lines instead of crunching the nodes by outside exposure.

15:14:23 mircea_popescu: mike_c nevermind, it's correct as it is.

15:15:29 mod6: I love this chart as well; are there any plans to make the name's in the graph link to the corresponding page for that user/keyid?

15:15:56 mike_c: mod6: maybe yes, I'm exploring that.

15:16:01 mod6: werd

15:16:18 mod6: Sorry, I don't wanna make more work for ya. It's p. awesome as is.

15:16:30 mike_c: not at all, suggestions and feedback are welcome

15:19:21 mod6: sweet, the sorting of ratings data looks great

15:20:07 mod6: got a link to phuctor too. \o/

15:23:29 mod6: i just realized i can zoom out on this... looking more and more areodynamic every day.

15:24:34 mod6: *aerodynamic

15:25:26 mod6: haha re: "assorted domestic animals"

15:29:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.00028328 = 10.5097 BTC [-] {2}

15:30:02 mircea_popescu: it's like 4k by 4k px naturally.

15:30:48 bagels7: As someone who is transgender I stay away from men in general. I make men angry that would rather kill me than to deal with their faggot insecurity

15:35:24 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00029307 = 11.166 BTC [+]

15:38:02 mircea_popescu: how do you know it's faggot insecurity ?

15:39:00 lobbes: <bagels7> I stay away from men in general. << you spend time in this channel though. About 95% men from what I guess

15:40:53 mircea_popescu: incidentally, the original (mostly politically driven) explanation for violence against homosexuals - some sort of "homophobia" suffers a lot seeing how ALL SORTS of other sexual behaviours elicit the same violent response. such as transsexualism, or pedophilia.

15:41:10 mircea_popescu: obviously sexual normativity is enforced on some sort of level irrespectively of the type.

15:42:14 mircea_popescu: while it's true that it probably shares that source with all sorts of nuttery (religious fervor, for instance), i very much doubt the actual motivator is what's proposed, ie, "dude is secretly gay and fighting it overtly"

15:43:06 mircea_popescu: or else why do [mostly old women] go to church ? because they're affraid they're secretly god ?

15:52:30 williamdunne: Isn't violence against transsexualism also generally considered homophobia, or at least some sort of xenophobia

15:55:58 lobbes: probably lumped under 'hate crimes'

16:09:30 bagels7: [11:38] <+mircea_popescu> how do you know it's faggot insecurity ? << When I am waiting at a bus stop at 2 in the morning and a guy walks by and pretends to be waiting for the bus as an excuse to talk to me while I am merely being polite then after 15 minutes has the nerve to tell me that I deceived him when he was only being nice to get laid

16:10:12 mircea_popescu: williamdunne by now they've completely lost any sort of relation between words. it's just... word word word word.

16:10:33 mircea_popescu: bagels7 well... there's a lot of nuts out there.

16:10:38 bagels7: mad at himself because he couldnt tell what I was

16:11:05 lobbes: bagels7, that is ultimately his problem though, no? Why change your lifestyle based on others?

16:11:13 lobbes: in terms of avoiding people

16:11:22 bagels7: where as a man that was secure could admit that a trans woman is hot despite not wanting to sleep with her

16:11:49 mircea_popescu: lobbes let me tell you why. because if servers introduce a new response code, you're stuck either making your browser aware of it, or else put up with the constant bitching.

16:11:58 bagels7: I don't see how I changed my lifestyle lobbes

16:12:32 mircea_popescu: which is why standards committees even exist : because in any interconnected system, you're constantly stuck with http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-04-2015#1115921

16:12:32 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 15:11:30; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu forgot e) sane person adds kludge to enable some semblance of civilization to function, creating schizoid split and opening would that bleeds complexity

16:12:53 mircea_popescu: and this is why the traditional statement of the objection among the wrong side of kink high is "i don't want them imposing their stuff on me".

16:13:44 bagels7: "sexual normativity" just comes of as heterosexual / vanilla propaganda

16:13:48 mircea_popescu: obviously the correct reaction would just be what i did on the meat list, ie, group all weird under a single "Weird" heading. but then obviously this irks the delusions of individuality of the individual weird involved, so there's that line of bitching.

16:17:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, that's the broad conflict. "being special" having been promulgated as a social good, and smashing the classification being a bona fide way to manufacture specialness, you now have the conflict of the boring who aspire to hack their way to attention vs the people who don't care about them and wish to remain able to not care about them.

16:17:09 mats: ;;isup nosuchlabs.com

16:17:10 gribble: nosuchlabs.com is up

16:17:38 mircea_popescu: it's irresolvable, for as long as a) "being special" is valued formally rather than substantially, and b) people get to make choice on the mere grounds of existing.

16:18:23 mircea_popescu: the good news being that neither a or b are actual things, or have any sort of hope of long term survival. just the froth of our days, soon to be gone back into the darkness that spawned them.

16:18:58 mircea_popescu: mats it recently changed ip, you seeing 195.211.154.159 ?

16:20:35 lobbes: !up ascii_field

16:21:29 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: The museum of the National Bank of Argentina << mega-article.

16:21:53 ascii_field: every country should have an exhibit of its 'zimbabwean' currencies

16:22:08 mircea_popescu: well not many countries have this much experience with it.

16:22:15 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the gold balance suggests that they had something like engl. 'trial of the pyx'. did they ?

16:22:17 mircea_popescu: i think there are some such, mostly with confederate dollars, in the us

16:22:32 mats: mircea_popescu: nope

16:22:33 mircea_popescu: yes.

16:25:15 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-04-2015#1116840 << not only up, but running on spiffy new box supplied by mircea_popescu

16:25:15 assbot: Logged on 30-04-2015 16:17:09; mats: ;;isup nosuchlabs.com

16:27:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 750 @ 0.00158981 = 1.1924 BTC [+] {5}

16:27:53 mats: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/report-says-american-psychological-association-collaborated-on-torture-justification.html

16:27:55 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1HUKR9l )

16:32:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41650 @ 0.00028674 = 11.9427 BTC [-] {3}

16:39:33 lobbes: 'The Bush administration relied more heavily on psychologists than psychiatrists or other health professionals to monitor many interrogations'

16:49:26 ascii_field: https://sks-keyservers.net/status/key_development.php << check out the spikes.

16:49:27 assbot: SKS Keyservers: History of number of OpenPGP keys ... ( http://bit.ly/1GJcVuM )

16:49:32 ascii_field: spamatronic ?

16:49:54 ascii_field: mircea_popescu ^

16:57:13 lobbes: ~6,800 added on one day O.o

17:23:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00028035 = 4.5977 BTC [-]

17:30:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.00158888 = 1.5889 BTC [+] {5}

17:32:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.00162707 = 1.6271 BTC [+] {13}

17:32:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 750 @ 0.00156574 = 1.1743 BTC [-]

17:33:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.0016679 = 1.6679 BTC [+] {4}

17:34:26 mod6: Lady quasi-butt, depicted with all the skill and guile of somebody that's never seen one. << lol

17:35:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 700 @ 0.00156574 = 1.096 BTC [-]

17:40:07 mod6: <+ascii_field> every country should have an exhibit of its 'zimbabwean' currencies << agreed.

17:47:52 mod6: mircea_popescu: lot of nice pics in there thx!

17:48:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00028035 = 1.0373 BTC [-]

17:57:32 mircea_popescu: ascii_field i think it's because for a while they added new keys in batches ?

17:59:14 mircea_popescu: and re the pyx thing : argentina had a very aspirational relationship with england. kinda why the faulkland war was such a big deal, sort-of like rambunctious kid going after dad, in a sense.

18:00:58 mircea_popescu: http://blog.sumptuouscapital.com/2014/07/how-microsoft-once-again-demonstrates-not-caring-about-security/ << from the lulz department

18:00:59 assbot: Sumptuous Capital: Blog » Blog Archive » How Microsoft once again demonstrates not caring about security ... ( http://bit.ly/1PaRwwK )

18:01:11 mircea_popescu: "To add insult to injury, despite the emails containing references to the aforementioned website and key, the following Microsoft announcements on July 10 and 11 were actually signed by the key 0xF0B7406D which is not referenced as a key used for current Microsoft announcements. This key actually does contain a small number of signatures from external users, but as with 0xA92965F2 none from any Microsoft employee. As t

18:01:11 mircea_popescu: o whether the key is authentic your guess is still as good as mine."

18:21:30 trinque: mircea_popescu: ran into your hierarchy of needs article by way of pete. interesting to note that at the top of maslow's was this vaguely communist "self transcendence" idea, whereas at the top of yours, the man's concept of self seems to engulf others.

18:21:50 mircea_popescu: entierly unsurprising huh.

18:21:54 trinque: what struck me is how on-point maslow's propaganda is, the exact opposite of what it should be, not some arbitrary other thing

18:21:58 trinque: yeah, not at all suprising

18:22:00 mircea_popescu: right.

18:25:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31660 @ 0.00028035 = 8.8759 BTC [-]

18:38:01 mircea_popescu: !up itkin

18:47:06 BingoBoingo: https://messages.yale.edu/messages/University/univmsgs/detail/121669

18:51:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00027599 = 6.1546 BTC [-]

19:01:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5392 @ 0.00028676 = 1.5462 BTC [+]

19:14:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15960 @ 0.00027599 = 4.4048 BTC [-]

19:55:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12484 @ 0.00026961 = 3.3658 BTC [-]

20:11:37 jurov: !up WolfGoethe

20:11:54 jurov: !yp yang

20:12:01 jurov: !up yang

20:12:09 jurov: !up so

20:12:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 781 @ 0.00150876 = 1.1783 BTC [-] {19}

20:13:15 jurov: so must have highligh off :D

20:14:01 jurov: !up marteen

20:17:28 WolfGoethe: anyone think bitcoin peer to peer trading has alot of room for growth?

20:24:14 trinque: WolfGoethe: seems you do, so how?

20:24:20 jurov: WolfGoethe for me it's much better to trade on davout's exchange

20:24:35 WolfGoethe: davouts ? url ?

20:24:43 jurov: paymium.com

20:24:59 WolfGoethe: for example. taking localbitcoin.com to the next level. like grubhub for money

20:25:22 jurov: i'm not very keen on exchanging bitcoins on streets with anyone

20:25:46 jurov: and exposing my personal data/location to snatchers

20:25:54 trinque: WolfGoethe: what would the next level be?

20:27:07 WolfGoethe: proper peer to peer is online only. using bitcoin as the lubricant between fiancial instruments like bank deposits, wire, paypal my cash, prepaid cards, western union , domestic intnational methods etc.. and all currencies

20:27:44 WolfGoethe: an escrow service dressed up for the mainstream so people can hustle with their financial tools and make money trading bitcoins etc..

20:27:47 jurov: that usually makes the second problem worse

20:28:18 WolfGoethe: not really. i do it pretty anon right now... as opposed to coinbase and circle who know everything about me, other traders don;t care

20:28:23 WolfGoethe: i stay anon

20:28:50 WolfGoethe: should give folks the option to verify if they really want to for trust's sake etc.. i am sure pro traders won't mind

20:29:01 WolfGoethe: guess no one here is into that tho

20:29:21 trinque: you have to clearly define your proposal before anyone can be "into it"

20:29:27 jurov: WolfGoethe how do you decide if counterparty is legit?

20:30:39 WolfGoethe: reputation system is key

20:30:59 WolfGoethe: one based on positive volume and not negative. just like ebay

20:31:16 WolfGoethe: such a market should take care to put out video guides for each payment method trade

20:31:36 WolfGoethe: essentially crowd sourcing the swift network to the people. let them be the on and off ramps

20:31:55 WolfGoethe: my bros r working on such a project and I have really been thinking about it

20:32:07 trinque: reputation system should be distinct from any particular application

20:32:14 trinque: this is why we have the WoT

20:32:50 WolfGoethe: trinque that's not realsitic, decentralizing things like that is another huge project, cannot mvp such a thing. ebay has their own internal system for 20 years, works

20:34:22 jurov: it's completely unrealistic or just huge? can't be both

20:34:33 trinque: this design-by-condescension thing isn't something I get behind; that "the people" can't understand a WoT... who cares

20:34:56 trinque: either they can and therefore could use one distinct from an applcation, or they can't and neither works

20:35:07 trinque: this pressuposes that you want everyone at the table, which I don't.

20:44:17 danielpbarron: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCHRQTVUoAAFnSw.png:large

20:44:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ky5DeX )

20:45:43 mircea_popescu: WolfGoethe it's kinda funny that someone feels compelled to pitch this sort of retardation here about every quarter.

20:46:47 mircea_popescu: in any case, a) ebay hasn't been around for 20 years, b) 20 years is only a long time because you're too young to be "thinking about things" and c) the notion that ebay's abomination works... AAA plus would do thinks again.

20:48:13 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:49:04 *: ascii_field using ebay for 17 yrs now

20:49:27 ascii_field: before that - as a boy - was buying/selling junk on usenet

20:49:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00025821 = 2.9049 BTC [-] {2}

20:49:37 ascii_field: ebay was an improvement on the latter.

20:50:00 mircea_popescu: a webification in any case. aol-for-usenet-trades.

20:50:14 mircea_popescu: afaik they only got out of the mtgox business ("collectibles") cca 2005 or someshit.

20:50:18 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the payment thing was the mega-feature

20:50:39 ascii_field: not having to go to shops, get 'money orders' cut, and have some semblance of insurance - appealed to people

20:51:10 *: ascii_field only ever used it for (usually, rare) electronics

20:51:18 mircea_popescu: i can see it.

20:52:29 ascii_field: ebay works well for getting 'golden toilets' for their actual market price vs the usg tentacular price

20:52:39 ascii_field: e.g., lightly used 'eizo' lcd for 500 instead of 1500

20:52:41 ascii_field: (usd)

20:53:24 ascii_field: virtually all of my hardware was purchased through ebay.

20:54:10 ascii_field: more or less a total monopoly with respect to what i use it for.

20:56:22 mircea_popescu: speaking of useless "platform"...

20:56:36 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c yo, want a fiverr acct ? prolly got a coupla hundred bucks in it.

20:56:36 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:56:49 mircea_popescu: shit's more expensive to use than heroin.

20:58:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24523 @ 0.00026509 = 6.5008 BTC [+]

20:58:43 ascii_field: incidentally, this is why i hoard hardware - because supply chain is so hit-and-miss

21:00:13 chetty: the issue with ebay,paypal etc. is they can and do close and freeze accounts anytime they feel like it

21:00:38 chetty: much like banks these days :P

21:01:19 ascii_field: chetty: this typically happens only to interesting people.

21:01:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68200 @ 0.00027478 = 18.74 BTC [+] {2}

21:02:07 mircea_popescu: ascii_field similarly, the "reputation system" works perfectly for anyone not using it.

21:03:42 ascii_field: the 'buy and sell only rare things' heuristic - perhaps accidentally - more or less eliminates scammers, in my experience

21:04:06 ascii_field: esp. when the rare things in question are not 'collectible' idiocies but obscure components

21:04:33 ascii_field: essentially, market 'too small to scam'

21:05:09 mircea_popescu: i can see it.

21:05:29 ascii_field: from my point of view, the whole rest of ebay is dross

21:06:22 mircea_popescu: which is why from my point of view the whole thing is dross. i don't buy the stuff you're talking about and why wouldn't i want to be in a shop.

21:07:10 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: afaik you do buy it (pre-08 pc parts, etc) but through meatwot suppliers

21:08:08 mircea_popescu: it all flows from the whole "we can't ~private~ message if we don't have a private relationship" thing. da fuck would i be doing on "online marketplace", dunno anyone there.

21:08:13 ascii_field: but, for example, ebay may well become the only practical source for amd cpu where i live, once amd finally sinks

21:08:48 ascii_field: recall my experience trying to buy items on otc ?

21:08:58 mircea_popescu: amusingly : the normal cellphone "sunk". in the us. it's amply abundant and vastlyt supplied in the real world tho.

21:09:07 ascii_field: there is not sufficient 'mass' there for the kind of things i buy.

21:09:11 mircea_popescu: samsung makes some pretty excellent ones, recent model too

21:09:39 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: they are not entirely unobtainable in usa. just, again, have to buy online.

21:10:14 ascii_field: the shops only supply items 'for the cattle' - that is, most common-as-dirt and aggressively spamvertized

21:10:51 mircea_popescu: jit = shit.

21:10:56 ascii_field: aha.

21:12:26 ascii_field: virtually all of my tools, incidentally, come from ebay and for most of my life i could not have obtained them anywhere else.

21:12:38 ascii_field: (by 'from ebay' meaning, of course, brokered by ebay.)

21:13:04 mircea_popescu: or properly said, Жит = Шит.

21:13:12 ascii_field: l0lwut

21:13:23 mircea_popescu: :D

21:13:41 mircea_popescu: eggog!

21:14:26 ascii_field: my fave abuse: самшит (Buxus sempervirens) ~= 'someshit'

21:14:49 jurov: what's jit? just in time?

21:14:53 mircea_popescu: yeah

21:15:14 mircea_popescu: ascii_field in spanish, "el boj comun".

21:15:31 ascii_field: aha it

21:16:54 mod6: i think the only thing I've ever gotten off ebay was an UltraSPARC II box

21:19:11 *: jurov is ebay virgin

21:19:14 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:21:12 ascii_field: http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/paralleleye/eye.html << example of item i bought on ebay. where the fuck else is it even physically possible to get one of these? sotheby's? it took 5+ yrs of searching, too

21:21:13 assbot: Parallel Port Interface to the Private Eye P4 Head-Mounted Display ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q3X5zq )

21:21:29 ascii_field: (subject being the display, not the plug)

21:22:19 ascii_field: or this: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1066

21:22:21 assbot: Loper OS » MicroWriter Redux. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q3Xdiv )

21:23:18 mircea_popescu: and now we understand alf's real tether to the mordor lands.

21:23:23 mircea_popescu: he needs omidyar.

21:23:30 ascii_field: l0l not like it doesn't work in mongolia

21:23:40 ascii_field: i even bought items from ru, they came in wooden crates

21:24:04 mircea_popescu: it works FROM mongolia.

21:24:05 mircea_popescu: not TO.

21:24:07 mod6: haha. wow, did you ever actually try to get used to using that alf?

21:24:18 ascii_field: mod6: using what

21:24:22 jurov: yea, nobody ships to mongolia

21:24:48 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it works FROM mongolia. << I've had to use my USian powers to ask sellers questions potential buyers could not ask because they were outside USia

21:25:00 *: ascii_field saw a 747 marked 'ups' in b-ar airport. so perhaps even there.

21:25:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12393 @ 0.00026411 = 3.2731 BTC [-]

21:25:19 mircea_popescu: by the way, lemme recount the fourth crusade for the benefit of the awareness-raising crowd-sourced crowd.

21:25:28 mod6: The "Private Eye"?

21:25:39 jurov: ascii_field: UPS ships everywere, but the vendors don't want to

21:25:57 ascii_field: jurov: most vendors will work with you if you're willing to pay the actual cost

21:26:02 ascii_field: i certainly do

21:28:38 mod6: the thing is pretty neat

21:29:20 ascii_field: as far as i'm concerned, historically, ebay is just this gizmo that shaves a zero off the price of the costliest things i buy. so i was never moved to care whether it is run by hitler or fueled with baby seal juice etc.

21:29:31 chetty: UPS ships to very happy customs agents in many places

21:29:56 ascii_field: hence the pogo suitcase, aha

21:30:15 ascii_field: i still don't understand why molestation in the post but not in the airport

21:30:24 ascii_field: why is one plundered and the other spared

21:30:34 chetty: lazy

21:30:43 ascii_field: but in the post - not lazy ?

21:30:58 ascii_field: where ups plane unloads - not lazy? but where human plane - lazy ?

21:31:01 ascii_field: how does this work

21:31:13 mod6: To read about all those other people you’ve got to buy the Professional version or even the Enterprise Edition. << lol

21:31:14 chetty: walking out of work with a box or two is a lot easier than a yard of paperwork in an airport

21:32:38 chetty: and you dont even have to process a box you never saw :P

21:32:58 jurov: i have long time ago won an ipod mini from ibm. ofc they sent it by post and it was clear case for customs how much such ipod costs and asked a tax

21:33:35 jurov: if i imported it on my bosy, what are they to do?

21:33:41 jurov: *body

21:34:33 mircea_popescu: chetty> UPS ships to very happy customs agents in many places << heh very much that

21:34:51 mircea_popescu: ascii_field you do not understand contemporary "man"

21:34:56 mircea_popescu: he's a thief, but not a robber.

21:35:00 mircea_popescu: he's an onanist, not a rapist.

21:35:08 mircea_popescu: he likes children, not women. pictures, not meat.

21:35:16 mircea_popescu: words, not things. certificates, not knowledge.

21:35:19 ascii_field: in other words lazy ?

21:35:22 mircea_popescu: it's a meta problem.

21:35:28 mircea_popescu: no, in other words mentally ill.

21:35:40 ascii_field: laziness or cowardice - or both ?

21:35:47 mircea_popescu: no, simple insanity.

21:36:56 mircea_popescu: and this is set to aggravate, by the way. physical presence becoming rarer and rarer and expensiver and expensiver, the necessary result of the interplay of its rarity with the above mental condition is that

21:37:12 mircea_popescu: well... in effect we'll all get super powers. like literal gods of mythology. "if im here everything works"

21:37:19 mircea_popescu: like the keeper of a bunch of slaves.

21:37:26 *: ascii_field is a bit confused here

21:37:27 mircea_popescu: say on an ancient galley.

21:37:31 ascii_field: physical presence expensive ?

21:37:33 ascii_field: how/why?

21:38:08 mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> not having to go to shops <<<

21:38:21 mircea_popescu: what is that ? go queue at the dmv. why not ?

21:38:28 ascii_field: going to a shop merely to get a piece of paper is dumb, period

21:38:35 ascii_field: i no longer have to queue at 'dmv' either

21:38:43 ascii_field: (driver license sent in the post)

21:38:45 mircea_popescu: "my being here is more expensive than the whole fucking shop would cost to build"

21:40:11 *: ascii_field doesn't (as far as knows) have super power. possibly one has to be mircea_popescu weight class to notice this effect.

21:42:00 mircea_popescu: give it time.

21:42:06 mircea_popescu: and for the promised fourth crusade story :

21:42:07 mircea_popescu: so, I. a bunch of militarily powerful, intellectually naive westerners made an army to go beat up the muslims and take jerusalem.

21:42:08 mircea_popescu: II.a. random byzantine (militarily worthless, intellectually overpowering) entity convinces them to help him "recover" his "stolen" throne, as if the byzantines ever did anything else or anyone had a valid claim, or the possibility of a valid claim even existed in their world.

21:42:08 mircea_popescu: II.b. and further promised them the "pearl in heavens", a very classical device in greek gay drama (since at least the days of darius, this empty promises as a path to military glory. the greeks invented "fake it till you make it")

21:42:10 mircea_popescu: III. they take adrianople, and their presence alters "reality" as the greeks perceive it. so their guy is named co-emperor.

21:42:13 mircea_popescu: IV. the "crowdsource" revolts. this alters "reality" once more, their guy is promptly poisoned.

21:42:15 mircea_popescu: V. they decide to conquer the fucking city. because by now they've got an inkling of the pure filth the greeks are. so they do, and burn it, and cauterize the place.

21:42:18 mircea_popescu: moral : democracy is for the mentally ill ; the rewards of democracy are rape and arson, often enough delivered with the same stick.

21:44:16 ascii_field: promised them the "pearl in heavens" << aka 'jam tomorrow'

21:44:28 mircea_popescu: if dandolo had any sense they'd have plowed and salted constantinople, and sold all the women to the turks.

21:45:55 mircea_popescu: ascii_field there was this mildly famous gay boy of athens whose name escapes me at the moment, literally got a whole trireme detachment on unbacked promises of great pay (from persia iirc ?) and well... there they sat.

21:48:46 ascii_field: eco had a pretty good piece set in 4th crusade

21:48:50 mircea_popescu: antonio doria, before being cut down by the french at crecy, was a rather successful genoese pirate. the pirate captain's regime collapsed over his (and others) failure to pay.

21:49:02 mircea_popescu: (well, he tried to pay in debased coinage, anyway. caused a revolt)

21:49:37 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:50:23 mircea_popescu: if i were younger and more bored (really, less involved with actual things) i might consider rewriting the history of the world from the only sane perspective : as the endless "interplay" between two types of people : the sane, and the imperceptibly mentally ill.

21:50:35 mircea_popescu: the former try to make things, the latter try to pass of their pretenses.

21:50:43 mircea_popescu: this is pretty much all history to date.

21:50:51 ascii_field: imperceptibly ?! l0l

21:50:57 mircea_popescu: yeah.

21:51:07 mircea_popescu: nobody thinks of, say, obama as mentally ill.

21:51:12 mircea_popescu: he "seems fine".

21:51:22 ascii_field: only because 'running the asylum'

21:51:41 mircea_popescu: well... you know, the junkie is also imperceptibly addicted.

21:51:56 ascii_field: to a sane future folk, he would seem as frothingly-mad as chingis khan seems to today's liberasts

21:52:09 mircea_popescu: except the khan seems coldly sane.

21:52:16 ascii_field: to the sane.

21:52:32 mircea_popescu: hence the problem

21:52:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00027589 = 2.9796 BTC [+]

21:54:04 mircea_popescu: in short : those who do are dull. "i do not wish to think about these things, i have better stuff to do!!1". those who don't are insane. but who's to notice ? they themselves can't, the others can't be bothered. so... imperceptibly insane.

21:54:07 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: ... consider rewriting the history of the world from the only sane perspective : as the endless "interplay" between two types of people : the sane, and the imperceptibly mentally ill << nietzsche, or, far better, limonov

21:54:22 mircea_popescu: neither of them actually played the gibbon.

21:54:36 ascii_field: right

21:54:59 ascii_field: would need serious mad hermit, to pull this one off

21:55:01 mircea_popescu: actually, hopefully we end up in prison, like the early soviet leadership. i'm gonna write a dictionary and a history of the world.

21:55:23 mircea_popescu: by the time i'm done, it's time to start butchering the powers that used to be.

21:55:33 mircea_popescu: check it out, my life all planned out.

21:55:38 ascii_field: l0l

21:56:01 *: ascii_field doesn't expect to be taken prisoner alive, but wishes mircea_popescu a jolly good meinkampfing

21:56:08 mircea_popescu: surely.

21:56:22 williamdunne: mein bit

21:56:24 mircea_popescu: tell you what, there's not going to be any "anastasias" out of the current imperial family.

21:56:43 mircea_popescu: i fully intent to ejaculate down the cut throat of every single female involved.

21:56:44 ascii_field: ashtrays, lampshades, aha

21:56:55 williamdunne: Lovely image

21:57:03 mircea_popescu: do things right for once.

21:57:34 ascii_field: the alt.tasteless term of art, iirc, was 'to squick'

21:58:03 mircea_popescu: honestly, my greatest regret in this life so far is that ~100k romanian ex-various state things survived the year 1990.

21:58:20 ascii_field: of what consequence are the muppets ?

21:58:30 mircea_popescu: you have no aesthetic appreciation.

21:58:32 ascii_field: it's rather like cutting up enemy cannon after a war, no ?

21:58:36 mircea_popescu: yup.

21:58:40 ascii_field: the cannon do not will anything

21:58:44 mircea_popescu: i did that, too.

21:58:47 mircea_popescu: i also break keyboards.

21:58:56 mircea_popescu: salt the fucking byzantium. after the war.

21:59:07 ascii_field: now this, on the whole - yes.

21:59:07 mircea_popescu: women off to tadjikistan, milk goats in chains for the rest of their lives

21:59:21 ascii_field: !s hear the lamentations

21:59:22 assbot: 1 results for 'hear the lamentations' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hear+the+lamentations

22:00:19 mircea_popescu: and now, for contrast, i give you shamir.

22:00:38 *: ascii_field wonders if he missed something re: shamir

22:00:43 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-04-2015#1113266

22:00:43 assbot: Logged on 27-04-2015 20:04:21; danielpbarron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9HimLksMkA

22:00:44 ascii_field: last i recall, he was turned out of usa

22:01:28 ascii_field: is there a transcript ?

22:02:28 mircea_popescu: i should prolly have one made, come to think about it.

22:02:32 mircea_popescu: gimme a minute

22:03:13 mircea_popescu: anyway, watching the derp go about how "we need regulation" suddenly made me comprehend why exactly von meck actually belonged beheaded.

22:03:49 mircea_popescu: brilliant guy, inescapably stupid. what are you gonna do ? can't empower stupid. off to the gulag with him.

22:03:58 ascii_field: von meck ?

22:04:14 mircea_popescu: you know, the "wrecker" who was "trying to make the train tracks run down faster"

22:04:25 ascii_field: aha that one

22:05:59 mircea_popescu: framing the discussion in terms of intellectual ability is completely missing the salient points. nobody ever gets offed for being either academically smart or stupid, it's orthogonal.

22:06:31 mircea_popescu: the insane can either live in the camps nor not live at all, that's the problem there. sanity, not intelligence.

22:08:50 ascii_field: except - sometimes, the sane - to the camps.

22:09:33 mircea_popescu: find me this happening.

22:09:56 ascii_field: say 2020.

22:10:15 mircea_popescu: gotta be in the past eh ?

22:10:16 ascii_field: ... 1937?

22:10:20 mircea_popescu: who ?

22:10:30 mircea_popescu: who was sane and in a camp in 1937 ? the jews ?!

22:10:57 ascii_field: pretty much everyone interesting minus epsilon in su

22:11:04 mircea_popescu: doing what, sanely waiting for the messiah ? (the real one this time!)

22:11:15 mircea_popescu: everyone interesting was, sadly, not sane, in the su.

22:11:36 ascii_field: ok i'll bite:

22:11:39 mircea_popescu: the sane were pretty much either dead under the white flag, or else involved in subverting the red.

22:11:46 ascii_field: what'd a 'sane' korolev have looked like?

22:13:07 mircea_popescu: at the time ? mebbe hughes ?

22:13:33 ascii_field: describe hypothetical mechanism whereby he could have hughesed.

22:13:53 mircea_popescu: there is no requirement that graph be arbitrarily traversable.

22:14:03 mircea_popescu: even the translation is more than can be promised

22:14:14 ascii_field: probably sikorsky is better example

22:14:39 mircea_popescu: i'm really not enough of an expert in the field to be all that confident.

22:16:09 ascii_field: my observation is that escape artistry and, e.g., rocketry, are - at best - orthogonal abilities

22:16:44 mircea_popescu: sanity and intelligence are unrelated, yes.

22:20:12 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

22:20:33 ascii_field: unrelated: that sks key mega-dump is in a ludicrous format - .gpg binary turds with 10,000s of pubkeys in each

22:20:52 ascii_field: will have to write something to cut this up

22:21:12 ascii_field: unless someone has just such a thing handy

22:24:11 jurov: gpg cannot use/export it directly?

22:26:05 jurov: also unrelated: today was btrfs day (drive with few subvolumes times tens of snapshots filled, i have embarked on some cleanup)

22:26:28 mircea_popescu: gl

22:26:51 jurov: kernel oopses are apparently completely sop

22:27:50 mircea_popescu: must be because of cpanel.

22:28:01 jurov: and atime/relatime + periodic snapshotting (like suse does by default) causes metadata to grow out of any bounds

22:29:09 mircea_popescu: as trinque will explain, this is a solved problem :

22:29:13 mircea_popescu: just make a record of it

22:29:39 *: mircea_popescu crowns himself as the one true troll of b-a. so there.

22:29:43 jurov: hahaha i got this idea you know

22:30:11 jurov: to make fuse filesystem to track atimes so that brtfs needs not to bother

22:30:29 jurov: indeed making a record of it

22:30:41 mircea_popescu: win.

22:39:31 jurov: oh and I forgot this gem: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83011

22:39:34 assbot: Bug 83011 – BUG_ON should be eradicated from the btrfs source tree ... ( http://bit.ly/1FB8qnm )

22:40:16 jurov: btrfs docs all but say that it obsoletes partition tables

22:40:40 jurov: you're supposed to have One pool with One filesystem

22:41:51 jurov: so if something happens to it, system does not deserve to go on anymore

22:42:39 BingoBoingo: Euthanizing Filesystem?

22:45:28 jurov: more like... if it commits suicide, better take everything with it

22:46:01 BingoBoingo: Ah, jihadi filesystem

22:46:17 jurov: ^this

22:47:43 jurov: loks like hans reiser should be released and properly armed

22:51:58 mircea_popescu: give the man a tank huh

22:56:18 jurov: just to be fair, all was resolved without data loss

22:56:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32107 @ 0.00026411 = 8.4798 BTC [-]

23:07:03 scoopbot_revived: News! Shamir's derpage URL: http://fraudsters.com/2015/shamirs-derpage/

23:07:52 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^ transcript

23:10:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23950 @ 0.00024999 = 5.9873 BTC [-] {2}

23:17:10 scoopbot_revived: News! Google Password Alert Already Subverted URL: http://qntra.net/2015/04/google-password-alert-already-subverted/

23:19:57 BingoBoingo: ^Some google derpage

23:21:24 mircea_popescu: if(document.getElementById("warning_banner")) { document.getElementById("warning_banner").remove();

23:21:25 mircea_popescu: heh

23:24:03 BingoBoingo: Seriously.remove()

23:25:15 mircea_popescu: document.getelementbyherpage.security.remove()

23:26:25 BingoBoingo: !b 6

23:26:26 assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/220GR7D.txt )

23:35:50 ben_vulpes: where's my log summary gurl

23:38:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9808 @ 0.0002557 = 2.5079 BTC [+]

23:41:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00024825 = 7.1496 BTC [-]

23:42:19 ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-04-2015#1115178 << wao

23:42:19 assbot: Logged on 29-04-2015 03:10:26; mircea_popescu: http://www.gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htm << check it out, apparently moore law stopped a decade ago.

23:51:40 williamdunne: Must've accidentally trashed the email alerting me of it

23:51:48 williamdunne: Did the council of elders agree to this?

23:53:02 ben_vulpes: where's your THz chip, williamdunne?

23:53:15 ben_vulpes: i'd like one just like it.

23:53:34 williamdunne: I'm using it to mine bitcoin in iceland

23:53:40 williamdunne: Its srsbznz