Transcript for 30-08-2013, 1046 lines:
02:22:24 mircea_popescu: ok so fraudsters is back.
02:22:38 mircea_popescu: it seems the latest article (ie euloria update) didn't make it into the daily backups.
02:22:46 mircea_popescu: or into google cache for that matter.
02:22:54 mircea_popescu: if anyone has a copy i'd muchly appreciate it, thanks.
02:58:12 jborkl: mircea_popescu , i might have a copy. i will look in the morning and see
02:58:49 mircea_popescu: jborkl thanks!
02:59:55 thestringpuller: diamonds are forever
03:00:24 thestringpuller: .d
03:00:24 ozbot: 65750060.14908 | Next Diff in 1071 blocks | Estimated Change: 18.4094% in 6d 1h 30m 21s
03:00:44 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller hey, you read it did you ? check your cache!
03:05:45 thestringpuller: what's this nonsense: ;;calc 0.0035 + .01258
03:05:55 thestringpuller: oops
03:05:57 thestringpuller: Deprecated: Function ereg_replace() is deprecated in /home/fraudsters/public_html/wp-content/themes/fraudsters/header.php on line 128 *
03:06:04 thestringpuller: lol
03:09:31 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller where do you see that ?!
03:11:47 thestringpuller: on every page
03:11:52 thestringpuller: may just be my browser
03:11:57 thestringpuller: but it looks like it's coming from wordpress
03:12:01 thestringpuller: want a screen shot?
03:13:50 mircea_popescu: well the os got upgraded and etc.
03:13:56 mircea_popescu: should be fixed im told.
03:14:55 thestringpuller: there we go
03:14:56 thestringpuller: :D
03:14:58 thestringpuller: good to go
03:15:07 thestringpuller: also what happened to the recent eulora article?
03:15:11 thestringpuller: did that get lost in the crash?
03:15:49 mircea_popescu: that's what im saying. do you ahve a cached copy ?
03:16:38 thestringpuller: lemme check
03:16:41 jborkl: i looked , i do not think i have it
03:17:26 mircea_popescu: jesus the cursed article of doom
03:17:29 mircea_popescu: it was pretty cool too.
03:24:03 thestringpuller: nope
03:24:08 thestringpuller: looks like my cache clears itself daily
03:24:18 thestringpuller: last thing I got is the article on rape
03:24:19 thestringpuller: lol
03:24:24 thestringpuller: sorry mang :(
03:27:03 mircea_popescu: where's fucking nsa when you need them
04:14:47 ThickAsThieves: fucking chrome
04:17:39 ThickAsThieves: one power down and all pinned tabs gone
05:54:47 Duffer1: is coinflow the only place for btc/ltc stock charts? is there nothing with more detailed info?
06:01:24 zoinky: what kind of info you looking for
07:06:06 VanCleef: should just do an ipo to hire 10 lawyers from india to sue the crap out of BFL and Avalon
07:12:07 Duffer1: i really like that idea
07:12:18 Duffer1: bfl would be toast
07:15:11 IceBurg: bfl might be preparing for bankruptcy anyway
07:17:11 Duffer1: nastyfans might not be OgNasty fans for long if bfl folds
07:17:56 Duffer1: The sound of "I TOLD YOU SO" would resonate throughout the solar system
07:21:13 VanCleef: hehe just putting out a feeler :P
12:11:00 gecko_x2: and there
12:11:04 gecko_x2: lol
12:11:52 San1ty_: Lol
12:11:56 Ogedei_: shieeeet
12:11:56 Scrat: inb4 excess flood
12:12:07 San1ty_: I just said AM didn't seem to be trading much anymore
12:12:11 gecko_x2: is that money going into lc?
12:12:14 San1ty_: holy shit I am the biggest counter indicator alive
12:13:45 San1ty_: Nah it's not going into labcoin I think, Labcoin isn't going to move much this weekend.
12:14:52 San1ty_: lol wtf, I suck :D.
12:14:56 Duffer1: hahah
12:15:54 San1ty_: i like it, I have a buy order open in the low 2.4's.
12:16:02 gecko_x2: only 1590 btc to go until 1.8
12:16:22 San1ty_: gecko_x2: You still believing 1.8?
12:16:27 gecko_x2: which is where this sucker is heading
12:16:33 gecko_x2: yea
12:16:50 Duffer1: would you actually buy at 1.8 though?
12:17:06 gecko_x2: i might
12:17:16 gecko_x2: i'd prolly set an even lower bid though
12:17:26 gecko_x2: for the ultimate capitulation
12:17:39 Duffer1: is there a stock chart site that isn't coinflow?
12:17:46 gecko_x2: that could be like 0.8 - 1.2
12:17:47 San1ty_: but gecko_x2, why would there be any capitulation? AM's healthy...
12:18:25 gecko_x2: yes San1ty but first there has to be maximum pain
12:18:28 Duffer1: the amount of hardware due to come online is making investors crap their pants
12:18:42 gecko_x2: all these shares have been sold from one person to the next
12:18:55 San1ty_: Duffer1, gecko_x2: yeah competition is strong, but what reason is there to believe AM can't cope?
12:18:57 gecko_x2: each one expecting to sell it for a higher price
12:19:11 gecko_x2: eventually, at 4.8, the last bagholder was reached
12:19:40 gecko_x2: and now it will all unwind until we reach the original breakout point, and maximum pain for the investors.
12:20:10 San1ty_: gecko_x2: that would be at around 0.6
12:20:11 gecko_x2: then it will rise and settle at a fair value.
12:20:15 Duffer1: good question sanlty_ I haven't been keeping up with AM plans so i duuno
12:20:17 gecko_x2: maybe
12:20:19 San1ty_: gecko_x2: but at those prices, who wouldn't buy?
12:20:27 gecko_x2: i would :p
12:20:34 Duffer1: yea no doubt
12:20:39 San1ty_: gecko_x2: yeah that's clear, but anyone besides you? :p
12:20:46 gecko_x2: sure
12:20:53 gecko_x2: those with all the btc :)
12:21:28 gecko_x2: even if the fair value is let's say 2.5
12:21:36 gecko_x2: there still has to be pain
12:22:03 San1ty_: I don't see for it all to unwind. I imagine confidence has been shaken a bit with the low divs, but if AM can keep up and pay out nice div's. there shouldn't be a reason for a massive selloff.
12:22:13 gecko_x2: when it reaches 1.8 i would start adding bids all the way down to 0.8
12:22:45 gecko_x2: but even 33% divs is 3 years, which is forever in bitcoin land
12:22:59 gecko_x2: and there are so many new and upcoming avenues to invest in
12:23:17 gecko_x2: and only so many btc in circulation
12:23:23 gecko_x2: and so many bagholders in AM
12:23:29 gecko_x2: it has to unwind first
12:23:31 San1ty_: gecko_x2: correct, but how many of them are a serious threat?
12:23:51 gecko_x2: we don't know that
12:24:41 gecko_x2: moar pain!! i say :p
12:29:53 San1ty_: gecko_x2: If what you think is going to come through all those early seller funds, where are they going? Labcoin?
12:33:57 gecko_x2: well actm is up 100% and lc is up some 250%
12:34:23 gecko_x2: then there is another nice asset class.. btc
12:47:00 Ogedei_: gecko_gs2: arnt lc up 380% now
12:47:41 gecko_x2: [15:47:32] <gecko_x2> !return 0.001 0.0037
12:47:41 gecko_x2: [15:47:33] <horgh> 270.00%
12:55:16 Ogedei_: so the stock is up 370% then
12:55:49 gecko_x2: ?
12:55:57 gecko_x2: no, it's up 270%
12:56:00 gecko_x2: :D
12:57:16 Ogedei_: its up 370% but your roi if you bought at 0.001 and sold now would 270% no?
12:57:45 gecko_x2: but you could not buy it at 0
12:58:37 gecko_x2: it's up 270 and you could sell it for 270 roi
12:58:54 gecko_x2: maybe you need another cup of coffee? :)
13:02:46 gecko_x2: of you calculated percentage gain starting from zero, then what is 1? is it 1%? 100%? 100000000% or infinity?
13:03:26 Ogedei_: when you talk about how much a stock is "Up" or down "down" you dont talk about the ROI
13:03:37 Ogedei_: as far as i know at least
13:03:41 gecko_x2: no
13:04:03 gecko_x2: you are also referring to a reference point
13:04:11 gecko_x2: which in this case would be IPO price
13:05:45 Ogedei_: hm ok maybe i do need that coffee then
13:10:48 AndrewJackson: What was Apple's ipo price minus inflation?
13:11:35 Apocalyptic: depends what inflation figure you want, the official one or the actual ?
13:13:12 AndrewJackson: how about actual
13:13:26 AndrewJackson: they bigger than ipo?
13:16:34 Rulother: Gecko this is the first time I've seen you sober in sometime, or at least you appear so
13:17:08 gecko_x2: lol
13:17:16 gecko_x2: well we play hard, drink hard
13:17:19 gecko_x2: right?
13:17:31 Rulother: very true
13:18:51 San1ty_: Lol :D.
13:19:21 San1ty_: How do you know he's sober?
13:19:34 Rulother: he's not typing angerly
13:20:03 gecko_x2: haha
13:20:35 Rulother: If I could while drunk on whisky, I would be in the same place too.
13:20:41 Rulother: could type*
13:20:48 gecko_x2: i guess it's good to have a personal shrink ini the trading room
13:20:48 Rulother: I can't type while sober :(
13:21:46 San1ty_: :D
13:22:23 gecko_x2: now c'mon ppl, when ur sitting on 270% profit you take it
13:22:31 gecko_x2: sell those fucking labcoin shares to the ground
13:22:37 San1ty_: gecko_x2: I agree
13:22:44 Rulother: shush your mouth, this isn't the forums
13:22:50 San1ty_: gecko_x2: I'm waiting for another quick 270%
13:22:59 gecko_x2: so is everyone else
13:23:25 Rulother: supposedly they start hashing next week
13:23:35 Rulother: 6T or something
13:23:41 Rulother: supposedly
13:23:42 gecko_x2: 4
13:23:45 San1ty_: Rulother: Nah in 2 weeks, 10th sept
13:23:56 San1ty_: and like gecko_x2 said only 4TH
13:23:56 Rulother: I thought they said in the first week of sept?
13:23:58 San1ty_: SELL SELL SELL
13:24:11 San1ty_: hmm
13:24:17 San1ty_: I read somewhere 10 sept
13:24:19 San1ty_: might be wrong
13:24:31 San1ty_: don't feel like browing through all those posts
13:24:36 San1ty_: *browsing
13:24:40 pankkake: do they even have chips?
13:24:52 gecko_x2: they do
13:25:02 gecko_x2: but they never mentioned how large the batch was
13:25:07 gecko_x2: 2000 or 2500?
13:25:17 gecko_x2: and we don't know how many they will sell
13:25:46 pankkake: I don't mean ordered chips, I mean chips in hand
13:25:57 gecko_x2: yea they got their batch
13:26:08 San1ty_: If they aren't on time with the start of mining expect the selloff of a lifetime
13:26:28 San1ty_: lower then IPO prolly
13:26:56 pankkake: well all of those newcomers are worth less than their ipo price
13:27:25 pankkake: still http://bitbet.us/bet/521/labcoins-own-130nm-design-sample-chips-will-be/ might be a Yes? :o
13:27:45 gecko_x2: err
13:27:49 gecko_x2: my numbers were wrong
13:27:51 gecko_x2: "The first run will yeild 1000-1500 chips "
13:27:59 gecko_x2: from the prospectus
13:28:08 gecko_x2: but they never said how many it actually was
13:28:57 San1ty_: If they start hashing I wouldn't be surprised if Labcoin would be up to .01
13:29:05 San1ty_: that's still a nice increase at current prices
13:29:40 San1ty_: !return 0.0037 0.01
13:30:03 gecko_x2: it was from another chan
13:30:04 San1ty_: bleh, bot doesn't like me?
13:30:09 San1ty_: Ahhh :D.
13:30:28 gecko_x2: [16:30:15] <gecko_x2> !return 0.0037 0.01
13:30:29 gecko_x2: [16:30:16] <horgh> 170.27%
13:31:48 San1ty_: another option is to buy AM just before Labcoin is supposed to start mining
13:31:59 Namworld: I'll go with the massive sellof expectation
13:32:02 San1ty_: if they are delayed -> big selloff -> BTC going into AM
13:33:46 Rulother: I expect a lot of massive sell offs for no god damn good reason, especially when you're talking about Labcoin
13:34:22 Rulother: But I do plan on being up for 24-48hrs during the period that it starts hashing
13:34:27 San1ty_: Well a good reason is the lack of patient "investors", most people in it are only in it for the huge profit spikes.
13:35:02 Rulother: Yes there's those
13:35:57 San1ty_: And you gotta admit, Labcoin is a daytraders dream.
13:36:01 San1ty_: a good daytrader that is :D.
13:36:23 Rulother: It is
13:36:48 Rulother: I believe it has also caused my drinking and smoking to up by like 3x
13:36:57 San1ty_: Haha
13:38:06 San1ty_: if Labcoin drops to 2.8 this weekend
13:38:11 San1ty_: I'll buy a couple K more.
13:38:27 Rulother: you mean .0028?
13:38:31 San1ty_: otherwise I'm not sure if I'll have the courage to hold till mining.
13:38:38 San1ty_: yes sorry .0028
13:38:44 Namworld: I'll keep investing and dedicating time in private and sound projects.
13:39:06 Rulother: That too
13:39:09 San1ty_: Namworld: Hah, Yeah that's easy, but how do you get into private and sound projects? :D.
13:39:36 Namworld: Connections and helping around?
13:39:44 Namworld: It gets you noticed.
13:40:06 San1ty_: hope you don't mean private and sound like BFL ;).
13:41:13 San1ty_: Namworld: Must be great to get into private opportunities.
13:46:34 San1ty_: What's up with MPEX
13:46:44 San1ty_: so it's an exchange where the only stock traded is the exchange
13:46:49 San1ty_: What The?
13:57:05 Namworld: Not BFL. But technically, it's sound in the sense it keeps making sales despite awful customer services =P
13:57:10 ozbot: Bitcoin Hash Rate
13:57:12 gecko_x2: trallalaa..
13:57:25 gecko_x2: everything is fine, nothing to see :)
14:00:18 jurov: bitcoin.sipa.be is more precise
14:00:24 jurov: oh, 2.5% daily?
14:12:21 pankkake: turns out XBOND is more lucrative for me than stocks
14:13:35 ThickAsThieves: in small volumes, it does pretty good
14:15:28 San1ty_: Markets pretty boring today
14:17:10 pankkake: yes. I deal with small volumes only :( :)
14:17:39 pankkake: I can say bitcoin made me 4 times richer, but I still am poor
14:20:42 ThickAsThieves: "It's unfortunate that there are few bonds around (the ones out there are all sold out). It pretty much shows how full of shit all these new mining/ASIC companies are - although they'll happily predict huge profits for investors they won't put their money where their mouth is and raise their capital via loan/bond paying a fixed-rate. Despite the fact that if they're right about the
14:20:43 ThickAsThieves: profits they'd make a lot more doing it that way. There's a reason people who can actually make a decent profit offer bonds/loans rather than equity. And there's a reason those who can't make a decent profit always sell shares. At present there's not enough of the former and too many of the latter."
14:20:50 ThickAsThieves: Good ole Deprived
14:21:19 pankkake: oh, never thought of it that way
14:22:15 pankkake: would there be a way to do both? obviously founders would not want to take that much risk
14:22:39 pankkake: also, why doesn't Deprived come here? :)
14:22:49 ThickAsThieves: i tried to get him here
14:22:57 ThickAsThieves: I suspect he lurks
14:23:06 mircea_popescu: he does have a point.
14:23:42 ThickAsThieves: the coincidence being I am in the very process of trying to convince a new mining co that there are other ways to raise money
14:23:44 mircea_popescu: and for the record, lurking here is a lot more adequate than talking for the needs of most people.
14:23:48 ThickAsThieves: and yet they press for selling shares...
14:24:04 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well mayben they know something you don't.
14:24:09 ThickAsThieves: maybe
14:25:03 San1ty_: ThickAsThieves: It's pretty simple actually, bonds introduce some risk that shares don't have.
14:25:12 ThickAsThieves: lol
14:25:20 johnnyfootball: turds
14:25:22 pankkake: the risk of default?
14:25:29 ThickAsThieves: enlighten me
14:25:45 pankkake: but if the company defaults, wouldn't shares go to zero in the same situation anyway?
14:26:07 mircea_popescu: pankkake you don't understand investor mentality you heretic you.
14:26:52 mircea_popescu: bonds introduce the risk that they can't conceivably go up 548906809560954860958x
14:27:05 ThickAsThieves: unless they come from me
14:27:08 pankkake: hahaha
14:27:11 ThickAsThieves: :)
14:27:12 mircea_popescu: gecko_gs2 San1ty and co : have i put enough digits in there to make you rich or need more ?
14:27:33 mircea_popescu: pankkake as they can't go up enough to make ten dollar tom "oprah rich", they're not "Worth it".
14:27:49 mircea_popescu: very very bad lottery tickets these bonds.
14:28:06 ThickAsThieves: some good lols provided by Van Cleef (BitHub) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=222565.msg3041247#msg3041247
14:28:43 pankkake: I now realize that watching stock prices for what I have is not really "worth it"
14:29:02 pankkake: in time wasted
14:29:09 ThickAsThieves: that's a point i try making to smalltimers
14:29:16 ThickAsThieves: they ask what should i buy?!
14:29:20 ThickAsThieves: i say nothing
14:29:21 ThickAsThieves: but
14:29:26 mircea_popescu: well that's the bane of the amateur invesotr anyway. but if you are using that time to eduicate youirself its not really a waste.
14:29:27 San1ty_: mircea_popescu: I'm talking about risk for the issuer obviously. If you manage to sell all your bonds, you promise (unless you are a scam) to pay a steady low fee to pay off your loan. When selling shares you just sell that... shares. No risk for the issuer whatsoever.
14:29:28 ThickAsThieves: if you must, buy some bonds
14:29:51 ThickAsThieves: lol
14:29:53 pankkake: well, I learned a lot about how trading works. and futures, stuff
14:29:54 mircea_popescu: San1ty i just used your conveniently open ended statement to make a point.
14:30:00 pankkake: it certainly was interesting
14:30:08 kleeck_: LOL - Bithub to Jmutch (SANDSTORM): "yeh yeh, can you just tell me how shit my stock is doing please?"
14:30:25 ThickAsThieves: San1ty, you realize selling shares is also a commitment to profit, no?
14:30:32 mircea_popescu: what's sandstorm again, a fund right ?
14:30:35 ThickAsThieves: yeah
14:30:43 ThickAsThieves: the guy who believes and feels
14:30:45 mircea_popescu: so if it's a fund why hate on it, is the portofolio that bad ?
14:30:46 kleeck_: A blackhole.
14:31:02 mircea_popescu: or wait. the portofolio is undisclosed ?
14:31:10 ThickAsThieves: he discloses I think
14:31:20 ThickAsThieves: he kinda was born under a bad sign
14:31:23 mircea_popescu: so what's he holding ? all the gems ?
14:31:27 San1ty_: ThickAsThieves: Correct, I'm trying to have an open discussion here (hope I haven't offended anyone? :S). But the premise of shares and bonds are different.
14:31:33 ThickAsThieves: it was the IPO for 100btc
14:31:36 ThickAsThieves: that skyrocketed
14:31:40 mircea_popescu: yeah
14:31:46 mircea_popescu: i recall the guy vaguely.
14:32:02 mircea_popescu: just, by now there's so many of these indistinguishable things that im always loath i confuse joe for schmoe.
14:32:03 ThickAsThieves: Assets
14:32:03 ThickAsThieves: 10 ASICminer direct shares (2.5)
14:32:03 ThickAsThieves: 6 ASICminer-PT shares (2.48)
14:32:03 ThickAsThieves: 4 ASICminer-PT shares(4.19)
14:32:03 ThickAsThieves: 4 ASICminer-PT shares(3.81)
14:32:04 ThickAsThieves: 1 ASICminer-PT shares(3.15)
14:32:04 ThickAsThieves: 1000 Labcoin Shares(.001)
14:32:05 ThickAsThieves: 10 Cognitive Shares (.28)
14:32:05 ThickAsThieves: 100 RentalStarter shares (.0149)
14:32:06 ThickAsThieves: 15 bASIC shares (.27)
14:32:06 ThickAsThieves: 15 bASIC shares (.41)
14:32:07 ThickAsThieves: 3000 Active Miner shares (.0025)
14:32:07 ThickAsThieves: 2000 Active Miner shares (.0052)
14:32:08 ThickAsThieves: 9.98 BTC
14:32:15 pankkake: last report shows 150 BTC NAV
14:32:33 mircea_popescu: wait what ?! that adds up to about 15 btc.
14:32:35 ThickAsThieves: not sure whas going on with his valuation
14:32:50 mircea_popescu: or wtf is that ?!
14:33:09 mircea_popescu: what's the relation between 6 and 2.48 / 4 and 4.19 / 4 and 3.81 ?!
14:33:14 ozbot: Welcome to Google Docs
14:33:16 ThickAsThieves: qty
14:33:18 mircea_popescu: ty ozbot
14:33:21 ThickAsThieves: on diff exchanges
14:33:41 mircea_popescu: why is this guy not on an0 ;/
14:33:54 ThickAsThieves: who is?
14:33:55 mircea_popescu: fucking blessings of ignorance already.
14:33:55 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves everyone that can be fucking made sense out of you know ?
14:34:03 ThickAsThieves: those exist?
14:34:04 San1ty_: ThickAsThieves, mircea_popescu: Shares is a commitment to profit, but bonds are basically a loan. Shares are a variable cost for you for example dividends. But a bond is a steady cost.
14:34:13 Rulother: That's some weak shit
14:34:14 mircea_popescu: how am i to read that shit ;/
14:34:17 ThickAsThieves: Deprived isnt using it fwiw
14:34:19 thestringpuller: .d
14:34:20 ozbot: 65750060.14908 | Next Diff in 970 blocks | Estimated Change: 20.5653% in 5d 8h 18m 16s
14:34:29 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves fgor shame.
14:34:38 mircea_popescu: San1ty yea, i am aware what these are.
14:35:14 San1ty_: So IMHO, a bond as an issuer is more risk then just selling BS Shares.
14:35:29 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "dont tell me what a fucking bond is, i'm not 5"
14:35:37 thestringpuller: lol
14:35:57 San1ty_: :D.
14:35:58 ThickAsThieves: BS = bullshit?
14:36:08 San1ty_: A lot of people here are 5 though...
14:36:12 San1ty_: yeah bullshit
14:36:13 ThickAsThieves: if so, then that was our point from the start
14:36:24 ThickAsThieves: well, deprived's point
14:36:27 San1ty_: well I wasn't disagreeing with you point
14:36:32 San1ty_: I was saying why would an issuer go for a bond?
14:36:37 San1ty_: If they can get away with shares
14:36:48 ThickAsThieves: oh you worded it like you had a point
14:36:55 San1ty_: Oh I'm sorry then
14:36:59 thestringpuller: Deprivrd should roll DMS into a diff futures pricing system
14:36:59 ThickAsThieves: np!
14:37:00 mircea_popescu: lmao
14:37:19 thestringpuller: whats so funny mp?
14:37:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, the reason an issuer would to the right thing is because he's not a fucking leech, trying to buy a car off paying lip service to the internet thing.
14:37:45 San1ty_: BRB 5 minutes
14:38:08 mircea_popescu: while it's true that most people involved are 5, what bothers me the most is that most are 5 while simultaneously working on the mentality of your average street whore.
14:38:22 mircea_popescu: how the hell that works boggles my mind.
14:38:44 thestringpuller: Tom Ford
14:38:51 thestringpuller: thats how it works
14:38:59 thestringpuller: ;;google Tom Ford
14:39:01 mircea_popescu: i guess.
14:39:22 thestringpuller: how bout that eulora update :(
14:39:28 thestringpuller: do we just have to wait till oct?
14:39:33 mircea_popescu: probably.
14:39:46 thestringpuller: i blame raid
14:39:49 mircea_popescu: nobody fucking steals from me it seems. which, you know, nice of you people.
14:39:57 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i blame java.
14:40:29 thestringpuller: you have me 10k credits for a few bitcents
14:40:30 mircea_popescu: fucking raid array was run off a jre. i say "dude, no java, srsly". sysadmin is like "ya ya, we're professionals here, i've been a sysadmin since before yo uwere born kiddo"
14:40:48 thestringpuller: stealing from you seems really distasteful
14:41:05 thestringpuller: lololol
14:41:11 thestringpuller: jre for raid?!?!?!?
14:41:14 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller anyway, im trying to piece it together.
14:41:17 thestringpuller: where is mod6
14:41:21 thestringpuller: hahhaha
14:41:27 mircea_popescu: yes, apparently that's a thing now.
14:41:29 gecko_x2: java is the optimal language for any raid solution
14:41:39 thestringpuller: ......
14:41:42 gecko_x2: everyone knows that.
14:41:44 thestringpuller: not sure if trolling
14:41:49 gecko_x2: lol
14:41:52 thestringpuller: or serious
14:41:57 gecko_x2: yes, trolling :p
14:42:04 gecko_x2: god damnit
14:42:14 ThickAsThieves: personally, I can't stand raids
14:42:14 thestringpuller: what happened to old school raid bridges?
14:42:23 mircea_popescu: you see ? that crap.
14:42:31 ThickAsThieves: always more problems than they are worth in my experience
14:42:33 gecko_x2: well, now you won't have to
14:42:40 mircea_popescu: gecko_gs2 what about like when it dies in flames and you have to keep a production server offline for 20 hours while you pi8ck up the pieces!
14:42:48 gecko_x2: now we got btrfs
14:43:01 gecko_x2: so u can kiss those raid arrays goodbye for good
14:43:07 pankkake: my raid6 saved me more than once
14:43:15 pankkake: well, I have backups, but it would have been annoying
14:43:17 gecko_x2: mircea_popescu exactly
14:43:19 thestringpuller: did the entire raid array die or just a few drives in the array?
14:43:31 gecko_x2: mircea_popescu which is why you should run your stuff on btrfs
14:43:32 mircea_popescu: pankkake on the mpex system i have a 1+0 hotswappable work of wonder.
14:43:35 gecko_x2: copy on write fs
14:43:38 mircea_popescu: if a hdd pops you just pluck it out and put a new one back in
14:43:44 pankkake: I would hope so
14:43:48 gecko_x2: then you would have restored your site yesterday in a few seconds
14:43:52 pankkake: and what's the rebuild time?
14:43:53 mircea_popescu: gecko_gs2 it's just a lousy server hostying a buncha blogs.
14:43:56 gecko_x2: instead of all day
14:44:03 mircea_popescu: pankkake it just does it while running.
14:44:04 thestringpuller: i would assume if your production server burst into flames you got bigger problems than raod
14:44:08 thestringpuller: raid*
14:44:15 gecko_x2: why
14:44:21 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller no, it'd be the raid.
14:44:22 gecko_x2: ofcourse you have offsite backup
14:44:22 pankkake: mircea_popescu: that's not the question. if other drives die while rebuilding, you're fucked
14:44:35 gecko_x2: look ppl
14:44:40 mircea_popescu: pankkake only if the symmetrical one dies.
14:44:45 pankkake: yeah
14:44:57 pankkake: but that's why you have to understand how raid works very well
14:44:57 ThickAsThieves: just use godaddy, wtf
14:44:58 thestringpuller: now i have incubus stuck in my head
14:45:02 ThickAsThieves: :)
14:45:05 gecko_x2: ur arguing about shit that doesn't matter in a CoW world
14:45:11 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves 3/10
14:46:02 gecko_x2: with btrfs making a backup is simply taking a snapshot of the changed data since last backup
14:46:11 TomServo: +1 on looking to re-read the Eulora update :P
14:46:18 mircea_popescu: TomServo didja save it ?
14:46:24 gecko_x2: the first backup is simply a snapshot of changed bits since zero
14:46:42 gecko_x2: so a backup of a TB hdd would be about 500 GB
14:46:57 gecko_x2: subsequential backups a fraction of that
14:47:06 gecko_x2: a few seconds to take the snapshot
14:47:16 gecko_x2: a few seconds to transfer off site
14:47:22 gecko_x2: a few seconds to restore
14:47:23 mircea_popescu: yeah, and if that chain is 10`000 units long you go make a miner to rebuild from scratch
14:47:27 TomServo: mircea_popescu: sorry, I looked when you were asking yesterday. No joy.
14:47:52 mircea_popescu: TomServo well luckily i keep slaves, they all read my shit, i had everyone re-write it from memory under pain of lashing.
14:48:00 TomServo: haha
14:48:03 mircea_popescu: ill confront 4 variants and hopefully remember the rest.
14:48:06 mircea_popescu: so mebbe.
14:48:19 mircea_popescu: it was about 10x easier to write than it is to re-write.
14:51:37 San1ty_: ThickAsThieves: Maybe a Derp question, but what happens with your assets if Havelock would have an irrecoverable DB crash?
14:55:44 ThickAsThieves: <San1ty_> ThickAsThieves: Maybe a Derp question, but what happens with your assets if Havelock would have an irrecoverable DB crash? <<< there are backups
14:56:06 ThickAsThieves: (of the asset holder emails and Qty)
14:56:18 thestringpuller: wait there may be hope
14:56:27 thestringpuller: I think I may have the article in my netbook
14:56:29 thestringpuller: brb
14:58:02 thestringpuller: mircea popescu you are in luck
14:58:04 thestringpuller: i have the raw data
14:58:08 thestringpuller: you want?
14:58:46 thestringpuller: PARDON ME WHILE I BURST INTO FLAMES
14:58:48 thestringpuller: fucking incubus
14:59:00 San1ty_: ThickAsThieves: Thanks for confirming :).
14:59:26 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller please, email.
14:59:32 mircea_popescu: bless you!
14:59:47 Rulother: mp you're being called upon - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263445.msg3042898#msg3042898
15:00:06 thestringpuller: k i'll email the html page
15:00:14 thestringpuller: can you work with that?
15:00:22 mircea_popescu: perfect.
15:00:36 kleeck_: awwww yea.
15:00:48 kleeck_: /popcorn
15:01:52 mircea_popescu: Rulother so i mean... what ?
15:02:26 San1ty_: I'm outa here
15:02:31 San1ty_: have a nice weekend guys
15:02:40 mircea_popescu: sanity left long ago
15:02:42 mircea_popescu: you're an impostor.
15:02:53 San1ty_: Fuck
15:02:54 johnnyfootball: i pooped in the thread and also called mircea_popescu out
15:03:05 San1ty_: You got me...
15:03:10 Rulother: Ah ha I see
15:03:23 San1ty_: Got to run before the cops get here!
15:03:35 thestringpuller: sent to office@polimedia
15:03:46 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller "Ford dropped out of NYU after only a year, preferring to concentrate on acting in television commercials; at one time, he was in 12 national advertising campaigns simultaneously."
15:03:50 ThickAsThieves: you call that a callout?
15:03:56 mircea_popescu: dude you've picked a good one. the male bimbo.
15:03:58 mircea_popescu: he's a mimbo.
15:04:15 thestringpuller: hence the jay-z song lol
15:04:18 mircea_popescu: ahh this shit's golden.
15:04:30 mircea_popescu: thestringpuller pm me your pw i'll add you some credits.
15:04:51 Rulother: where is this "call out" unless bitcoiner is you
15:04:55 thestringpuller: one sec will do that once I get to school gotta go afk for a bit for the commute, thanks mang!
15:05:01 mircea_popescu: np
15:05:13 johnnyfootball: OMG LABCOIN
15:07:17 Rulother: o my
15:25:15 mircea_popescu: TomServo http://fraudsters.com/2013/eulora-game-mechanics-etc/
15:25:24 mircea_popescu: and if anyone else wanted it.
15:25:37 chaang-noi: oh shit, gox just had a huge buy
15:25:42 chaang-noi: ;;ticker
15:25:43 TomServo: Thanks
15:26:29 ThickAsThieves: ;;premium mtgox btce
15:26:35 chaang-noi: and that wall at 134!
15:26:36 Scrat: more people moving out of that piece of shit exchange?
15:26:49 ThickAsThieves: pretty much
15:26:55 ThickAsThieves: slow bank run
15:26:57 chaang-noi: gox just did like 10,000 btc volume in 20 mins
15:27:19 chaang-noi: but gox has been pulling the price of all the other exchanges higher
15:27:27 chaang-noi: i bet you the others go over 120 soon
15:27:29 Scrat: now the sheep will buy on bitstamp to reflect that "move"
15:27:37 chaang-noi: yes
15:27:53 ThickAsThieves: no wya to tell how long or whether it sticks
15:28:16 chaang-noi: well, that has been the trend for a few weeks now, it could break now but has been interesting
15:28:33 chaang-noi: that wall at 134 will help
15:29:07 ThickAsThieves: if it really is a liquidity problem, then I expect we'll see more pronounced symptoms
15:29:44 matuszed: Theres only 29K Coin left at GOX up to 200
15:29:51 chaang-noi: here we go again
15:29:53 matuszed: if theres gonna be a run on the bank its going to be interesting
15:30:03 chaang-noi: ;;ticker
15:30:12 ThickAsThieves: maybe today!
15:30:32 chaang-noi: 16 to 17k btc bought in like 20 mins,...
15:30:40 chaang-noi: and i was thinking wow, what a slow day...
15:31:50 chaang-noi: bitstamp now 120.8
15:32:12 chaang-noi: ''premium mtgox btce
15:32:18 chaang-noi: ;;premium mtgox btce
15:33:26 ThickAsThieves: there was a retracted article from thegenesisblock pointing out gox might have serious issues\
15:33:30 ThickAsThieves: maybe that sparked this
15:34:02 mircea_popescu: who's trolling bitbet comments ?
15:34:03 ozbot: BitBet - Bitfury EU August orders will ship before 1st September 2013
15:34:18 chaang-noi: retracted? why?
15:34:35 chaang-noi: did anyone copy it?
15:34:51 ThickAsThieves: its on reddit
15:34:55 ThickAsThieves: and TGB comments on it too
15:35:31 Rulother: I'm so done hearing about this damn bf bitbet
15:35:41 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you know, what "started this" is someone saying so, in april.
15:36:12 mircea_popescu: Rulother i fear there shall be more.
15:36:30 Rulother: After that day long debate yesterday
15:37:22 mircea_popescu: tomorrow i think it's getting resolved. seems a certainty at this point that no mattrer which way it goes there's going to be multuple bitchfests on btctalk etc
15:37:39 Rulother: Are you in on the bet at all?
15:38:14 mircea_popescu: not significantly
15:40:01 chaang-noi: 140 on gox
15:40:22 matuszed: That got aggressive
15:41:08 ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
15:41:34 ThickAsThieves: ;;premium mtgox coinbase
15:41:45 ThickAsThieves: ;;premium mtgox cbx
15:42:09 chaang-noi: 142 lol
15:42:27 mircea_popescu: basically as all mtgox btc are eaten up + whatever tux can borrow from his fraudster friends in the scam foundation
15:42:36 chaang-noi: i do wonder if it is just a huge whale in panic mode
15:42:51 mircea_popescu: there's going to be a funny situation of "we're closing down and will refund everything just after our good friend kenna is done refunding his custiomers"
15:43:05 ThickAsThieves: the only people using gox are day traders probly
15:43:14 ThickAsThieves: this means all of em will need to buy btc to get out
15:43:48 mircea_popescu: pretty much the only people usiong gox are gox.
15:43:50 matuszed: People will step in for that arb
15:43:53 matuszed: 16% is high
15:44:05 ThickAsThieves: where will the cash come from?
15:44:09 mircea_popescu: matuszed some noobs might, until they discover how taking fiat out goes.
15:44:32 ThickAsThieves: we tested a sale on gox this week
15:44:37 ThickAsThieves: i mean withdraw
15:44:39 ThickAsThieves: no go
15:44:54 Rawted: yeah i only have 4k in gox, and ive been trying to get it out since june.
15:45:48 ThickAsThieves: pay 142 now or 200 later
15:45:49 ThickAsThieves: :)
15:45:58 matuszed: Pushing that bank run are you
15:46:10 jorash: bank run, eh??
15:46:24 ThickAsThieves: idc if the price runs up
15:46:32 ThickAsThieves: i'm not selling anything
15:46:53 mircea_popescu: lol tat with the last 10 btc on gox, just to troll ppl
15:46:54 fractal: any updates on this bet? http://bitbet.us/bet/520/bitfury-eu-august-orders-will-ship-before-1st/
15:46:57 mircea_popescu: who through they were daytraders.
15:47:12 mircea_popescu: fractal yea, Rulother is the chief updates officer on that one.
15:47:29 ThickAsThieves: sell AM for gox cash gogogo
15:47:40 Rulother: hah thanks
15:47:44 mircea_popescu: yw.
15:48:01 fractal: rulother: have you looked into http://bitbet.us/bet/520/bitfury-eu-august-orders-will-ship-before-1st/ at all ?
15:48:20 jorash: I'd like some input from you guys... what do you think would happen if all 21m BC were put into circulation tomorrow? Would people abandon btc altogether
15:48:26 jorash: *BTC
15:48:44 mircea_popescu: jorash wjhats "put into circulation" mean ?
15:48:46 fractal: jorash: all else being equal, the exchange rate would drop in half. thats about the only thing that would happen
15:48:47 ThickAsThieves: you are ignoring the more important point
15:48:50 ThickAsThieves: how they got there
15:49:05 fractal: i think he means distributed evently
15:49:11 fractal: based on current address sizes
15:49:14 ThickAsThieves: nah
15:49:18 ThickAsThieves: he means in an instant
15:49:19 jorash: put into circulation meaning all remaining coins were mined instantly, and then sold en masse for cheap
15:49:31 fractal: jorash: who is the seller? 1 entity?
15:49:44 jorash: say, 3 major exchanges
15:49:48 Rulother: fractal, I've been here just over hearing all the ramblings.
15:49:54 jorash: 1 entity though yes, via exchanges
15:50:08 fractal: and what was the asking price?
15:50:17 mircea_popescu: if 1 entity sells all the bitcoin then the network is doomed.
15:50:18 mircea_popescu: i
15:50:22 jorash: some amount below the market price
15:50:25 mircea_popescu: 'd move to ltc and ignore btc thenceforth.
15:50:35 fractal: jorash: the price would drop until they were all bought, then rise up instantly
15:50:36 mircea_popescu: within a few months ltc would trade to btc just like btc trades to ltc now.
15:50:39 jorash: mircea, say the same thing happened to all cryptos
15:50:43 ThickAsThieves: thats not the answer jorash wants mp
15:50:47 mircea_popescu: i would make my own.
15:51:29 jorash: (I'm with a startup planning to do this)
15:51:37 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves whatever answer jorash wants, the answer jorash gets is, go and tell thy masters that bitcoin is here, bitcoin is forever, and the only thing changing is them.
15:51:41 fractal: Rulother: when will you make your decision?
15:51:42 jorash: I keep coming here looking for buyers
15:52:06 ThickAsThieves: jorash is the guy who had me asking similar questions the other day
15:52:08 jorash: micea, thats my favcorite answer
15:52:19 fractal: jorash: buyers like me would put up a bid wall at $0.0001 for all the coins, if they tried to sell them all at market
15:52:26 ThickAsThieves: he didnt like my answers either
15:52:28 Rulother: fractal, I've made up my mind, but I don't take part in bitbet. Or betting in general.
15:52:57 JimmyJazz: Good evening I purchase 10 TAT.ASICMINER shares.. wooooooooooooooo
15:53:08 fractal: at what price? they're worth around 0.1
15:53:10 jorash: I'm asking this question because I've got mixed reponse for people. They think increasing quickly to 21m would doom the coin, I tihnk it would be healthy since it would drop the price and allow many new buyers to get in cheap, which is a long term benefit for coin
15:53:23 jorash: *from people
15:53:30 mircea_popescu: jorash we don't want new people at all, let alone many
15:53:34 mircea_popescu: we want intelligent people ONLY.
15:53:34 jorash: at what price I dont know, say 20% whatever market is
15:53:49 mircea_popescu: this notion that getting the public involved is good is just about the stupidest thing ever.
15:53:52 ThickAsThieves: jorash it just doesnt work the way you want
15:54:01 fractal: jorash: It wouldn't 'doom' the coin, but since there would be no more block rewards, who would mine blocks for 0.1 BTC fees?
15:54:09 ThickAsThieves: he would
15:54:18 jorash: mircea, the only viability of a given service/product/system is the number of people using it. The intelligence is solely ont he people developing applications for bitcoin to make it easier and more secure and ubiquitous
15:54:27 mircea_popescu: fractal it would doom the coin because the question "how did the seller get the coins" couldn't find a satisfactory answer soon enough
15:54:34 mircea_popescu: and so we'd just leave ship.
15:54:50 jorash: no that answer would be known, mircea... and well publicized
15:54:53 fractal: right, he's saying hypothetically if everyone was OK with them all being released, what would happen
15:54:57 fractal: i think
15:54:59 ThickAsThieves: even if known
15:55:08 ThickAsThieves: the answer would cause the same jumping of ship
15:55:11 jorash: fractal, the mining would be a very efficeint process, so mining wouldnt be a cost intensive process, you wouldnt need many nodes to keep mining
15:55:31 mircea_popescu: fractal well hypotethically what would happen is clothes going out of fashion and the world turning to a massive orgy, in that case.
15:55:33 fractal: jorash: mining would work the same way even when all coins are released
15:55:39 ThickAsThieves: because there are only two possible answers and both amount to bitcoin being broken
15:56:08 fractal: jorash: anyway, you have my answer, the exchange rate would drop until someone bought them all, then stabalize -- all else being equal
15:56:10 jorash: fractal: I'm saying mining would be broken.. or more correctly, SHA-2 would be efficeintly cracked.
15:56:19 fractal: oh -- then BTC is fucked
15:56:31 mircea_popescu: doh.
15:56:42 jorash: why?
15:56:47 jorash: imagine the wallets will still be secure
15:56:49 jorash: and transactions
15:56:52 fractal: because anyone could spend anyones coins at any time
15:57:09 mircea_popescu: cracked sha would cause a fucking tidal wave.
15:57:19 mircea_popescu: bitcoin is small fry, it will probably start a number of wars.
15:57:30 jorash: add the additional layer, that the cracking of SHA-2 would also imply the allowance of new security protocols
15:57:53 JimmyJazz: Will ACTM ever deliver?????
15:58:04 ThickAsThieves: they already have
15:58:05 fractal: jorash: actaully sorry, you coudln't spend anyones coins because you'd need to crack ellipitcal curve for that..... but the network would be DDoS'd, somoene could find an empty block every second and broadcast it --
15:58:48 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves da fuck ?! what ?
15:58:50 jorash: Basically, it would work like this. Quantum emulation cracks SHA-2. Quantum emulation also allows for quantum key distribution. Thus, in compromising the mining, you also get superior security measures (which need to be imlpmented and adopted by network to be effective)
15:59:00 ThickAsThieves: they deliver the lulz!
15:59:10 mircea_popescu: great glory there.
15:59:21 mircea_popescu: jorash i;ll bet you that you don't crack sha. how about that ?
15:59:45 jorash: Unfortunately there's no means of shorting my corp :p
15:59:52 mircea_popescu: yes, tyhere is./
16:00:05 mircea_popescu: go make a bitbet, put whatever you got on yes, i'll match it.
16:00:11 ThickAsThieves: me too
16:00:24 mircea_popescu: and meanwhile read http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/
16:00:26 mircea_popescu: to understand why this sort of nonsense is dead now.
16:00:35 jorash: What sort of nonsesne
16:00:40 jorash: efficeint mining?
16:00:47 ThickAsThieves: asking money for things that wont make money
16:00:48 mircea_popescu: "you can't short my putative theoretical nonsense which i might deliver just you wait"
16:01:30 jorash: You don't even know the theory I espouse, yet you call it nonsesne... hmmm
16:02:35 jorash: You understand, you're defending computational inefficeincy. What you're essentially arguing is that brute force is the fastest possible means of mining.
16:02:36 ozbot: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking | Threat Level | Wired.com
16:04:19 mircea_popescu: jorash attacking me won't save your proposition.
16:04:33 mircea_popescu: if it's of any practical value go make the bet. if it's not it presents no interest.
16:04:42 mircea_popescu: take it to #crypto-sf or w/e
16:04:42 ozbot: Tradehill Confirms Trading Suspension – Bitcoin Magazine
16:04:54 ThickAsThieves: 'One day after customers reported receiving emails indicating that Bitcoin exchange Tradehill was closing shop for the second time in as many years, the trading service confirmed on its website that it had “temporarily suspended trading.” '
16:04:59 jorash: #1 There are quantum algorithms which compromise or crack SHA. #2 The question of whether classical machines can efficienty simulate quantum computers is open (ie. Does P=BQP?). #3 If some entitiy proves P=BQP, then they can theoretically run quantum algorithsm which mine faster. Nothing non-sensical, nothing illogical, nothing impossible.
16:05:08 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves do they quote the MP is your god forum post or do they carefully eschew to say who fucked kenna,
16:05:21 mircea_popescu: when all his "important" friends assured him tjhey'll wash his corpse in ezxchange for a few meals ?
16:05:47 ThickAsThieves: 'The San Francisco based company made the news last week when it announced it was opening an account with the Internet Archive Federal Credit Union. In the emails shared by customers on Wednesday, Tradehill stated that it was “suspending its relationship” with the IAFCU'
16:06:11 ThickAsThieves: 'UPDATE
16:06:11 ThickAsThieves: Tradehill CEO Jered Kenna has posted an announcement on reddit noting that the IAFCU ”has experienced operational and regulatory issues and we are no longer able to continue our relationship at this time.”
16:06:11 ThickAsThieves: He ended the announcement by saying “We look forward to resuming operations soon.”'
16:06:20 mircea_popescu: derp.
16:07:07 fractal: 2 shutdowns in 2 years isn't good for your brand.
16:07:20 fractal: they'll have to rebrand/rename themselves
16:07:24 mircea_popescu: herp.
16:07:27 ThickAsThieves: hehe
16:07:40 ThickAsThieves: maybe a face transplant too
16:08:34 JimmyJazz: I think people have accepted that these kind of shutdowns will happen in the growing stages. Lets hope they get back to operating.
16:09:28 TomServo: mircea_popescu: what's the 'sf' in crypto-sf?
16:09:29 taub: uhm
16:09:32 taub: what the fuck
16:09:44 mircea_popescu: TomServo like "creative".
16:10:01 mircea_popescu: JimmyJazz i rthink you have no clue wtf you're talking about.
16:10:10 mircea_popescu: since we're doing random i thinks.
16:10:29 taub: some big news or why did price jump ten bucks
16:10:30 taub: ?
16:10:32 taub: ;;ticker
16:10:59 ThickAsThieves: We're getting regulated! BUY!
16:11:46 JimmyJazz: I'm talking from a marketing background of changing the brand and image becuase of a few shutdowns. Does not make sense the strongest asset is the brand and that it is an alternative to Gox.
16:12:09 JimmyJazz: People feel secure trading on the platform.
16:12:10 taub: aand just went to 134
16:12:13 pankkake: (late response) if sha256 is efficiently cracked, you have more problems than that
16:12:38 mircea_popescu: for teh lulz.
16:12:42 ozbot: Why MP is your God.
16:12:54 mircea_popescu: JimmyJazz it's not "a few shutdowns"
16:13:03 mircea_popescu: it's a shutdown which they claimed was one thing and then it turned out to be another,
16:13:06 mircea_popescu: and getting called for it,
16:13:22 mircea_popescu: and tyrying to open a new exchangwe when i fucking told them they have no business doing so w/o resolving the previouis
16:13:27 mircea_popescu: and they saying they'll prove me wrong
16:13:31 mircea_popescu: and i pissing on their 2nd grave.
16:13:34 mircea_popescu: that's the story here.
16:13:47 mircea_popescu: yet another rehash of the infinite hitpoints theorem.
16:15:17 ozbot: Legal Firm Riddell Williams Hires Bitcoin Experts to Lead Payments Practice | On Bitcoin
16:15:38 mircea_popescu: do they name teh experts ?
16:15:44 ThickAsThieves: bloggers
16:15:48 ThickAsThieves: ofc
16:16:00 mircea_popescu: sigh. this world.
16:16:16 mircea_popescu: a that frieberg guy
16:16:21 mircea_popescu: well hes not THAT bad
16:16:23 ThickAsThieves: "Friedberg has spoken at industry conferences including Bitcoin London and Bitcoin 2013, and has been quoted in major publications such as Fox Business, Tech Cocktail, and Business Insider. Friedberg has also published his work on the Bitcoin Foundation blog.
16:16:24 ThickAsThieves: Strauss spoke at Bitcoin 2013, and published his writing in American Banker. He was also quoted in The Hill’s regulation blog."
16:16:53 mircea_popescu: i have no idea who the schmucky blond kid is tho
16:16:54 ThickAsThieves: how can that be their best credentials
16:17:06 ThickAsThieves: They spoke on bitcoin!
16:17:26 TomServo: Who is this clown?
16:17:55 ThickAsThieves: wow
16:17:58 ThickAsThieves: awesome graphic
16:18:01 ThickAsThieves: haha
16:18:32 TomServo: #7 - It's more complicated than linux. hahaha
16:18:46 mircea_popescu: TomServo the thing with clows is that there's no who associated.
16:18:53 mircea_popescu: clown is a collective personage.
16:19:37 TomServo: Fair enough - I didn't mean a literal clown.
16:19:46 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i suspect the entire exercise is more a sort of celebrity endorsement to get us to take ridell seriously
16:19:48 TomServo: Perhaps, 'clownshoe' would've been more appropriate
16:20:00 mircea_popescu: as in, look, they're getting bitcoin, let's take our business there.
16:20:40 ThickAsThieves: i suppose
16:21:18 mircea_popescu: which isn't so bad, people do ask who;'s a good lawyer etc.
16:21:30 mircea_popescu: gotta start somewhere.
16:22:14 ThickAsThieves: more bitcoin lawyers would be nice
16:22:24 ThickAsThieves: but securities ones
16:23:33 mircea_popescu: ridell williams has a respectable corp/security practice
16:24:10 mircea_popescu: it's a business house, not some sort of personal injury or w/e boutique.
16:24:24 ThickAsThieves: hmm
16:29:25 mircea_popescu: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1008789924/image.jpg&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/BlondeRyan&h=240&w=320&sz=12&tbnid=zsBwVZG-qzCFGM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&prev=/search%3Fq%3DRyan%2BStraus%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=Ryan+Straus&usg=__mjA2qXayWkoy2kjntO7odaSPHG4=&docid=sukkl8DIrDj7jM&itg=1&sa=X&ei=a8UgUvfYHcnNswbLqoGYDw&ved=0CEIQ9QEwBg&dur=494 lol
16:31:56 ThickAsThieves: classy
17:02:58 matuszed: big labcoin poop
17:03:17 ThickAsThieves: it's good to poop at least once a day
17:03:55 zoinky: lol
17:10:35 Rawted: actm is really living up to ken slaughter's prowess
17:13:48 ThickAsThieves: seeems it barely moves anymore
17:13:51 ThickAsThieves: like Ken?
17:14:51 mod6: (07:41) < thestringpuller> where is mod6 << hey! :P
17:15:35 mod6: jre raid controller? wtf
17:15:57 gecko_x2: it's teh latest tech
17:16:28 gecko_x2: only available for professional experts
17:17:34 thestringpuller: lol
17:17:54 thestringpuller: mod6: i wanted you around for the discussion about jre being used for raid arrays
17:19:25 mod6: well, yeah software raid isn't very awesome
17:19:33 mod6: i like hardware raid
17:19:59 mod6: but, w/e
17:20:45 ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash\
17:20:49 ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
17:20:54 ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
17:20:59 mod6: looks like the site is back up tho. so \o/
17:21:21 ThickAsThieves: fractal can you link me to that mining calc again?
17:21:29 ThickAsThieves: i lost my tabs
17:22:23 mircea_popescu: mod6 ;/
17:24:27 mod6: mircea_popescu: was hell getting it back up 'eh
17:25:16 mircea_popescu: myeah
17:25:22 ThickAsThieves: thx
17:25:23 deadweasel: CTRL+SHIFT+T will undo closed tabs ThickAsThieves
17:25:41 mircea_popescu: it's one of those things where this guy who is clueless in your field (me) has very strongly held beliefs you disregard because you're the sysadmin
17:26:00 ThickAsThieves: deadweasel it was a larger issue
17:26:05 mircea_popescu: only to have to like, build shit oout of mud and hay to fix things up under his smh gazer
17:26:32 mircea_popescu: i imagine the poor guy is scarred for life
17:26:38 mod6: yeah, saw that :/
17:27:03 mod6: well, live and learn. i bet he'll never use something like that again
17:27:28 mircea_popescu: possibly not
17:28:43 ThickAsThieves: jurov your futures are too expensive!
17:28:46 mod6: i typically like to use redundant storage systems for mission critical stuff -- if the budget permits it. which funny enough, lots of places thing they're "good" with just one SAN.
17:29:29 gecko_x2: SAN = Security Agent National
17:29:39 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves didn;'t he get burned last month ?
17:29:47 mircea_popescu: gecko_x2 stiorage network
17:29:50 ThickAsThieves: yes, to my benefit
17:29:58 gecko_x2: i know i know..
17:29:59 mircea_popescu: lol so give him a break
17:30:05 ThickAsThieves: i bought all of em pretty much
17:30:15 ThickAsThieves: indeed,
17:30:32 ThickAsThieves: but they also dont work for mining hedge either
17:30:44 ThickAsThieves: not that jurov is the steward of mining hedges
17:31:16 mircea_popescu: nothing works for hedging fucking exponentials.
17:31:41 ThickAsThieves: i tried designing a new type of mining future that was shorter terms, more dynamic
17:31:49 ThickAsThieves: but kept hitting walls
17:32:11 ThickAsThieves: havent given up tho
17:32:46 ThickAsThieves: this excercise is partly what led me to realizing the value of current bonds
17:32:48 gecko_x2: the blockchain allows for a new technology that might be revolutionary for a society
17:33:01 gecko_x2: namely time-release encryption
17:33:03 mircea_popescu: yeah well, i have kinda given up. once it comes out of insanity we can financialize it
17:33:04 mircea_popescu: for now...
17:33:06 thestringpuller: 17:10 <thestringpuller> where do I type that in
17:33:14 gecko_x2: i propose the creation of timecoins
17:33:19 thestringpuller: oops
17:33:22 thestringpuller: lol
17:33:39 gecko_x2: which you could buy and use for locking information until a specific time in the future
17:34:08 ThickAsThieves: can i premine it?
17:34:23 ThickAsThieves: back to the future!
17:34:28 thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: did that work?
17:34:55 gecko_x2: the mechanism for preventing early leaks of the encryption key would be based on millions of parts of the master key encoded in the data field of these timecoins
17:35:34 gecko_x2: the decryption of the hidden data would need something like 75% of the specific coins
17:36:22 mircea_popescu: gecko_x2 why can't someone just look at their datafield on the network ?
17:36:22 gecko_x2: holders of the coins, or 75% of them distributed globally all with personal incentives, would refrain from releasing the coins too early because they would loose all value
17:36:41 gecko_x2: in addition
17:37:15 gecko_x2: holders of the coins will all be the first to get to see the hidden message, provided the message is intended for public view
17:37:45 gecko_x2: that aspects would give coins their value and some fierce speculation would ensue too :)
17:37:50 gecko_x2: for ex
17:38:07 gecko_x2: let's set the system to support for ex 500 years into the future
17:38:32 gecko_x2: then create secondcoins, minutecoins, hourcoins
17:38:46 gecko_x2: each with it's own blockchain
17:39:18 gecko_x2: and limited, so for ex there can exist only so many second coins as there are seconds in 500 years
17:39:25 gecko_x2: same with minute, hour
17:39:55 gecko_x2: so now say for ex i want to hide a secret message for the world, to be revealed after 5 years
17:40:27 gecko_x2: so i purchase the amount of h, m and s coins so it adds up to 5 years
17:40:58 gecko_x2: those coins are used to create a master key, derived from the hashes of those specific coins
17:41:09 gecko_x2: now the coins are released for trading globally
17:41:15 gecko_x2: anyone can buy them
17:41:47 gecko_x2: the open source software they use, like bitcoin wallet, can be set to automatically release the coins after 5 years
17:41:54 gecko_x2: creating the master key
17:41:58 gecko_x2: and revealing the secret.
17:42:25 gecko_x2: anyway, something like that is what i've been thinking off
17:42:47 gecko_x2: ofcourse the blockchain itself would prevent any tampering of the data during the 5 years
17:42:49 Rawted: <ThickAsThieves> seeems it barely moves anymore
17:42:49 Rawted: <ThickAsThieves> like Ken? +1
18:01:55 Anduck: mircea_popescu: anything new about the bitfury bet?
18:02:05 Anduck: i think there are now 5 confirmed deliveries
18:02:12 Anduck: but it still lacks a delivery of 400gh kit
18:02:35 Anduck: but after all, both kits are built from same modular cards
18:02:53 mircea_popescu: Rulother is the designated news agent for the bet
18:03:00 mircea_popescu: poor guy.
18:03:06 mircea_popescu: i'm sorry r, it's just too funny!
18:03:25 gecko_x2: k forget i ever described that just now
18:03:29 Anduck: does Rulother know something i do not?
18:03:44 mircea_popescu: Anduck he just made the mistake of saying he's sick of all the bet discussion already.
18:03:48 Anduck: btw mircea_popescu why have the "pending resolution" in the footer bar changed from "1/9" to "0/9"
18:03:49 mircea_popescu: but otherwise no, no news so far.
18:03:49 gecko_x2: don't want to be responsible for a global thermonuclear war and destroying mankind..
18:04:49 mircea_popescu: uh i dunno ? leseee
18:05:48 mircea_popescu: no idea why it does that, buit the bet itself is still "Betting closed. Pending resolution." and "Resolution:
18:05:48 mircea_popescu: in 1 day 5 hours (01-09-2013)"
18:06:05 kakobrekla: i know why it does that
18:06:15 Anduck: hmm
18:06:28 Anduck: why?
18:07:46 kakobrekla: 9 bets are waiting resolution but 0 of them are ripe for it
18:08:07 mircea_popescu: ah
18:08:35 Anduck: what??
18:08:42 Anduck: isn't that bitfury bet ready for resolution?
18:09:11 mircea_popescu: not until the 1st.
18:09:15 kakobrekla: Resolution:
18:09:16 kakobrekla: in 1 day 5 hours (01-09-2013)
18:09:26 Anduck: but ain't the 5 deliveries already confirmed
18:09:26 Anduck: ?
18:09:38 Anduck: or does it actually require a 400gh unit?
18:09:55 kakobrekla: i guess we will know in 1 day and 5 hrs
18:10:01 mircea_popescu: once a bet closes of due time it doesn't resolve until the resolution date.
18:20:55 mircea_popescu: http://agonistica.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Sophie.jpeg << what's this ?
18:21:46 kakobrekla: milk
18:22:03 mircea_popescu: lol
18:23:56 gecko_x2: yeah sell that crap
18:24:00 gecko_x2: sell it to hell
18:24:12 gecko_x2: :)
18:25:07 gecko_x2: lab coin sounds like some hospital device which is extremely unpleasant
18:25:23 Rulother: hah
18:25:46 Rulother: It's some guy trying to off 30k shares
18:26:01 gecko_x2: i'm a buyer at 0014
18:27:09 gecko_x2: 30k shares?.. i imagined ppl traded in batches of those
18:28:35 gecko_x2: i was a buyer at 0022
18:28:36 deadweasel: labiacoin?
18:28:39 gecko_x2: missed 0018
18:28:59 gecko_x2: yeah deadweasel
18:29:04 gecko_x2: something like that :p
18:29:08 gecko_x2: hehehe
18:29:24 gecko_x2: i think that's the word i was looking for
18:29:29 deadweasel: clitcoin
18:29:55 deadweasel: cept maybe PR.
18:30:12 gecko_x2: now the next ipo that will have 'coin', 'active', 'virtual' or 'crypto' in it's name i will NOT buy
18:30:20 gecko_x2: i don't care if it's a 10 bagger
18:30:38 gecko_x2: i will not be subjected to names that make me sound like a fucking ape
18:30:42 Rulother: coinactive mining
18:30:54 Rulother: cAM
18:31:54 kakobrekla: but but im working on virtual crypto active coin is gonna be the greatest company
18:32:07 Rulother: Amazing company?
18:32:08 gecko_x2: if i had a mining business, i would call it 'poopoo kaakaa'
18:32:09 kakobrekla: has the domain and logo and all
18:32:14 kakobrekla: yes amazing.
18:32:16 pankkake: gecko_x2: will you buy if it has "bit"? :)
18:32:16 kakobrekla: no chi problems
18:32:29 gecko_x2: no pankkake, forgot about that
18:32:41 pankkake: shit! I need to think of a new name then
18:32:44 kakobrekla: i have enough chi for everyone
18:32:53 Namworld: Hey gecko_x2, I'm IPOing VirtualActiveCryptoCoin, want to buy in? We're in the business of making business for business making businesses.
18:32:58 pankkake: actually I have the best first word, just need a second one
18:33:09 kakobrekla: Namworld that is already taken
18:33:16 pankkake: I irloled
18:33:17 kakobrekla: get your own cccc-ombo
18:33:24 gecko_x2: yea
18:33:36 gecko_x2: i'm in !
18:34:07 gecko_x2: gonna be so rich
18:34:31 Namworld: Anyone realize a business making business would be somehow referring clients to a business or advertising.
18:34:33 kakobrekla: like 7% a week rich.
18:34:33 matuszed: Can i get a Board Seat>
18:34:40 matuszed: ??????
18:35:21 Namworld: So by making business for business making businesses, we'd be pretty much referring businesses to a business generating business for said business we referred?
18:35:28 Namworld: Haha!
18:35:54 pankkake: will you hire Xzibit to do some consulting for you?
18:36:06 Namworld: YES YES and YES
18:36:21 Namworld: (Board seats require only 10 million USD in investment)
18:36:44 pankkake: since 1 bitcoin will be worth 10 million in 10 years, can I just pay later?
18:36:52 Rulother: lol
18:38:10 Namworld: Yes. Payable now. In ten years you'll be repaid 500 millions with 1 BTC because in another 10 years, that's what they'll be worth.
18:38:50 Namworld: Assumption based cycle
18:42:18 mircea_popescu: lulzy
18:42:48 benkay: business factory factory factory
18:44:00 pankkake: inspired by Java!
19:06:21 Rulother: go go
19:09:04 bob__: im now a bit millionaire ££££
19:09:52 ozbot: ARGUS-IS The world's highest resolution camera - YouTube
20:35:03 thestringpuller: ;;ticker
21:15:54 ozbot: Crash pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
21:22:55 Neil: ;;nethash
22:23:00 kingofsports: hey guys question regarding futures - why do people that are not hedging a postion they have buy futures? Generally future prices are below the today price of a stock or commodity. Why not just sell at todays price instead of 30 days from now if you arent trying to hedge something?
22:23:16 benkay: leverage
22:23:44 kingofsports: is there any way of profiting from buying a futures contract if i dont have a position in that stock?
22:23:57 benkay: yes, by selling the contract.
22:24:13 kingofsports: such as options, where in many cases u never hold the stock u just lose or instantly profit if u buy at a strike price
22:24:32 kingofsports: okay so offering a contract is always +EV i assume well in most cases.
22:24:40 mircea_popescu: kingofsports if the price in the future is below the spot and you don't need the item until the future then of course you buy the future
22:24:40 kingofsports: since u offer a lower price paid in 30 days
22:24:42 mircea_popescu: it's cheaper.
22:25:08 kingofsports: ah i just dont understand how futures is similar to options, someone told me that.
22:25:30 mircea_popescu: well i guess you got some reading to do.
22:26:01 kingofsports: i just dont see why it would be beneficial to BUY an offered future, if u could sell for more at todays price.
22:26:26 kingofsports: i cant see how THAT MANY people would buy futures cause they are in a stuck postion til that length of time goes by, but futures are huge.
22:26:36 mircea_popescu: hence the reading.
22:26:55 kingofsports: i could def see how offering a future price could be profitablre.
22:27:13 mircea_popescu: look. are you married ?
22:27:31 kingofsports: im 19, finance and accounting student. 2nd year.
22:27:32 kingofsports: single.
22:27:50 mircea_popescu: cool. so if you can either pay 10k for a wedding ring right now, or $100 for a wedding ring in 2015
22:27:57 mircea_popescu: which would you prefer ?
22:28:09 kingofsports: $100 in 2015
22:28:11 kakobrekla: none of the above
22:28:15 mircea_popescu: there you go. that's your future.
22:28:20 mircea_popescu: you've just bought one.
22:28:30 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla he's 19 not 29. give the guy time.
22:28:52 kakobrekla: gotta start educating early when the brain is young
22:29:50 kingofsports: what im saying is, how is it profitable to buy an offered future. Say bitcoins are selling for $130 today, and someone offers a 30 day future of $120. Why is there any demand for that future when someone could sell today for $130.
22:29:52 kakobrekla: anyway sorry for the intrusion, carry on
22:30:06 kingofsports: i understand how its profitable for the person offering the future below spot price.
22:30:14 kingofsports: cause if price stays the same they make money in 30 days
22:30:39 mircea_popescu: nah, im done.
22:30:42 kingofsports: why would someone take my $120 in 30 days future when they could sell btc now for $130 is what im asking. whats the motivation / reason behind it.
22:31:48 kingofsports: cmon im trying to understand it. I read about it but i still dont see why anyone would take a future when they could sell for more TODAY. i watched TDameritrade all their videos and simulations. Options understood, forex ehh understood for most part but futures i dont see the one side why anyone would do it.
22:32:31 mircea_popescu: you realise the payment is now, and the delivery later ?
22:32:33 kingofsports: like for your example mirceau why would anyone offer u to sell the ring for $100 in 2 years when they could sell it for $10000 now?
22:32:44 kingofsports: oh
22:33:01 kingofsports: that clears it up somewhat.
22:33:32 mircea_popescu: so if $100 right now for a ring i don't have to deliver for 16 months is worth 9900 for me, i'll offer that deal.
22:33:51 kingofsports: now i understand it better. now i see. companies make sure steady revenue no matter what thru these futures.
22:33:52 kingofsports: got it.
22:34:09 mircea_popescu: exactly.
22:34:20 mircea_popescu: shit's explained nicely on my blog, but sadly it's in romanian.
22:34:31 kingofsports: i hear people get absolutely killed sometimes in futures if they dont know what their doing, to me tho it sounds less risky then options tho
22:34:46 mircea_popescu: it IS less risky than options. it's horribly risky nevertheless.
22:34:55 kingofsports: oh okay
22:35:05 kingofsports: theres youtube vids of ppl losing life savings in instants
22:35:10 kingofsports: thru futures
22:35:25 mircea_popescu: there's youtube videos of idiots losing lives in instants through chainsaws
22:35:33 mircea_popescu: what's in a video.
22:36:23 kingofsports: lol true
22:37:45 kingofsports: now mircea what happens if the company fails to deliver is it legally actionable?
22:38:05 kingofsports: say i offer futures of $120 for 10 BTC, and person fails to deliver but i have all their info and the contract.
22:38:11 kingofsports: duh its a contract nvm.
22:38:39 arandomer: hey
22:38:44 mircea_popescu: futures are standardised contracts. you get cleared by a clearing house or somesuch
22:39:24 arandomer: Does chang ever show his face around here?
22:39:45 benkay: what's up arandomer?
22:39:56 arandomer: nothing much, ben, what about yourself?
22:39:57 kingofsports: ah okay
22:40:09 benkay: arandomer: he's around from time to time
22:40:18 mircea_popescu: arandomer you can use ;;seen
22:40:26 benkay: ;; seen mircea_popescu
22:40:46 arandomer: mircea_popescu, I saw some of your posts on Reddit
22:41:00 mircea_popescu: anything good ?
22:41:14 arandomer: Eh, wasn't too bad.
22:41:32 kingofsports: ;;last ASIC share price
22:42:02 kingofsports: is there a way to look at the options book for ASIC shares?
22:42:08 kingofsports: thru this chat
22:42:21 mircea_popescu: afaik the only book access is via mpexbot
22:42:31 mircea_popescu: $depth s.mg
22:43:17 jurov: hi all, satoshi square bratislava made ~ 3 transactions in about 10 btc total
22:43:26 mircea_popescu: pix ? vids ? hot chix ?
22:43:35 jurov: price between 85-89 eur
22:43:42 mod6: :]
22:43:48 kingofsports: man i understand options and the risks now i just gotta understand how to read the books like on mpex...i took one look at mpex and besides the standard buy and sell prices didnt know what the hell i was reading.
22:44:01 jurov: hmmm, no hot chix were around when i made photos
22:44:42 mircea_popescu: bid/ask, last trade, min/max prices past 30 days and day/month volumes
22:45:56 kingofsports: no i mean like this: X.IDIFF.JUN
22:46:01 kingofsports: obv that means june
22:46:08 kingofsports: but for what and what what?
22:46:13 mircea_popescu: click on it see the contract neh ?
22:46:26 kingofsports: well thats helpful
22:46:30 jurov: <ThickAsThieves> jurov your futures are too expensive! <<< drop me some TAT. stuff and short them then!
22:46:32 kingofsports: lol sorry
22:47:03 kingofsports: any big winners or losers lately mircea with your options?
22:47:56 mircea_popescu: nah, very low volume
22:48:23 mircea_popescu: they're pretty much too difficult to price it seems.
22:49:39 kingofsports: right now what would be your premium for 10 BTC with $140 strike price be? Call.
22:50:15 mircea_popescu: $depth O.USD.C140T
22:50:16 kingofsports: im curious to know how high u guys have to be with your premiums to be profitable, thinking of offering options and futures for small amounts.
22:50:21 mircea_popescu: you know it's not that hard to check on your own
22:50:37 kingofsports: oh okay
22:50:40 kingofsports: now that u said it
22:50:44 kingofsports: i can find it easily
22:50:48 mircea_popescu: $depth O.USD.C140N
22:50:53 mircea_popescu: t's are about to expire
22:51:10 kingofsports: are Ts tuesday, Ns are wednesday?
22:51:18 mircea_popescu: t;s are this month, n are next month
22:51:22 kingofsports: oh nvm
22:51:23 kingofsports: read it
22:52:13 kingofsports: can u buy less then 1000?
22:52:28 kingofsports: i would assume so.
22:52:29 mircea_popescu: yea, you can buy 1
22:52:33 kingofsports: okay cool
22:52:44 mircea_popescu: each contract is for 1 btc mind you.
22:54:24 kingofsports: ;;last labcoin
22:56:56 kingofsports: are there any sites that allow u to offer futures of your own?
22:57:15 mircea_popescu: you can write your own options on mpex.
22:57:22 kingofsports: my thought is in BTC world how do i make sure i get my end of the contract at the end of the length of time.
22:57:25 mircea_popescu: you can't really make futures anywhere, atm.
22:57:36 kingofsports: yeah makes sense why
23:01:11 kingofsports: what is the price based on for your USD options mircea? bitstamp?
23:02:06 mircea_popescu: $avg
23:02:08 mircea_popescu: that.
23:02:20 kingofsports: oh ok
23:03:26 kingofsports: so essentually i can buy an option for $128 strike price at .079 fee, thats like $136 overall or so.
23:03:33 kingofsports: $137
23:03:42 kingofsports: thats not too bad, prices shoot up nonstop.
23:03:53 kingofsports: they move ~15% range id say every month
23:08:58 kingofsports: i assume many of your offers are all robot based, do u have a set ROI u set your options at mircea? Like an edge of 5% for you or higher.
23:10:00 jurov: kingofsports: perhaps look up the MPOE reports?
23:11:40 jurov: if you wanted btc cheaply, you should have been there :)
23:16:43 mircea_popescu: jurov what settlement method did you use ?
23:16:50 mircea_popescu: fixing or what
23:17:02 jurov: ad hoc
23:17:21 mircea_popescu: aha
23:17:21 jurov: there was no recognizable system
23:37:33 kakobrekla: ops
23:49:58 jurov: kakobrekla: you know universe was created by Eris first?
23:50:17 jurov: then she said screw dat and left it all to that impostor
23:50:21 kakobrekla: with or without the assholes?
23:50:40 jurov: the impostor added the assholes as per his taste
23:51:01 kakobrekla: hm ok
23:54:28 jurov: Yes, that's true in some sense, false in some sense, and true and false in some sense.
23:54:49 ozbot: Assholes - YouTube
23:57:10 mircea_popescu: jurov wasn't it sophie ? what eris.
23:57:31 mircea_popescu: eris aka discordia is jus' some bitchy slut.
23:58:07 jurov: and sophie isn't?
23:58:39 mircea_popescu: sophie just likes suckling the cock.