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Transcript for 31-01-2014, 2584 lines:

00:00:12 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04899992 = 0.196 BTC [+] {2}

00:00:39 dub: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433280.msg4848691#msg4848691

00:00:40 ozbot: Selling 4.13M stolen DogeCoins

00:00:53 dub: cant put anything past these shibes

00:06:08 KRS1: those dirty dogs

00:08:28 pankkake: scammers scamming scammers

00:11:06 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids it already has picked up considerably.

00:12:23 mircea_popescu: dub remarkable how calous, 3rd world teh forum has become.

00:14:03 dub: uh, lol?

00:14:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5980 @ 0.00090133 = 5.39 BTC [+]

00:14:39 mircea_popescu: dude is back in there bumping his shit, not a care in the world etc.

00:15:46 dub: like isk, doge has an implied level of lawlessness

00:16:24 dub: lawl'essness too

00:16:32 mircea_popescu: which just happens to be over 9000

00:17:27 mircea_popescu: anyway, teh diids pushing it should be just about running out of suckerpool. should be lulzy to see it unwind.

00:24:15 jurov: verily, they should build drones and take it inbetween them somewhere in desert

00:25:15 nubbins`: mircea_popescu: 4 hours too late, but i'm here now!

00:25:33 mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know that guy ?

00:25:57 nubbins`: which guy? not 100% caught up

00:26:10 mircea_popescu: DrahogErusiel

00:26:13 mircea_popescu: forum painter dood

00:26:32 nubbins`: ah, don't know him, but those paintings he's selling look amazing

00:26:32 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

00:27:16 mircea_popescu: well he's too clueless to know me, so do you wanna escrow his fee ?

00:28:03 twizt: lol amazing

00:28:03 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

00:30:43 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 68 @ 0.005 = 0.34 BTC

00:33:59 ThickAsThieves: "do you want to be a baby hitler or full grown?"

00:36:04 nubbins`: mircea_popescu, sure

00:36:11 nubbins`: sorry, stepped away

00:37:23 mircea_popescu: lol

00:37:30 mircea_popescu: nubbins` so be a darling say so in the thred.

00:39:29 nubbins`: sure, got a link?

00:39:42 nubbins`: i'll race ya

00:40:08 mircea_popescu: i'm screaming at wannabe pr outfits.

00:40:38 nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359006.msg4849162#msg4849162

00:40:39 ozbot: portraits, commissions, and original paintings by Maureen Gubia

00:41:38 nubbins`: "at the club, at the beach, or in the amazon. "

00:41:39 nubbins`: ahahahah

00:41:43 nubbins`: actually amazing

00:41:43 assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

00:43:02 nubbins`: over the years, i've stopped taking "this would be great album art" as a compliment

00:43:12 mircea_popescu: >D

00:43:16 ThickAsThieves: "a company purchasing and selling convertible

00:43:17 ThickAsThieves: virtual currency as an investment exclusively for the company’s benefit is not a money

00:43:17 ThickAsThieves: transmitter. " ~ FINCEN

00:43:38 nubbins`: so what the fuck is mike caldwell?

00:43:45 nubbins`: these people..

00:43:57 ThickAsThieves: also,

00:44:03 ThickAsThieves: "The first ruling states that, to the extent a user creates or “mines” a convertible virtual currency solely for a user’s own purposes, the user is not a money transmitter under the BSA"

00:44:34 nubbins`: solely for a user's own purposes

00:44:41 ThickAsThieves: "If further clarification is needed, FinCEN encourages the submission of a request for an administrative ruling. The procedure for submission of administrative rulings can be found at FinCEN’s Web site"

00:44:46 ThickAsThieves: http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/nr/pdf/20140130.pdf

00:45:59 ThickAsThieves: the doc links to more docs with elaborations

00:46:01 nubbins`: not sure which "official" thread is more pathetic, asicminer or cavirtex

00:46:35 mircea_popescu: that's sad.

00:48:16 ThickAsThieves: http://seekingalpha.com/article/1980641-visas-ceo-discusses-f1q-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=5

00:48:16 ozbot: Visa Inc (V) news: Visa's CEO Discusses F1Q 2014 Results - Earnings Call Transcript - Seeking Alpha

00:48:25 ThickAsThieves: asked about Bitcoin

00:49:12 ThickAsThieves: "And there’s certainly some interesting things about Bitcoin and other things like it, but there’s also a great deal of complexity. People talk about things like frictionless and things like that, and when you actually dig through it, it’s really not the case. It’s far more complex than that. And we feel very comfortable with the business that we have here."

00:49:25 mircea_popescu: famous last words.

00:51:26 nubbins`: he's right about frictionless

00:51:33 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: iv counted 46 ticks over 2 days, to compare to say the S&P 500 i would expect 46 ticks every 2 minutes?

00:52:17 mircea_popescu: that he is.

00:52:22 herbijudlestoids: lets say the rate of trading goes up to 10 ticks an hour, will you still stream on irc? :D

00:52:38 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids afaik the limit is 1 per second.

00:52:44 mircea_popescu: (freenode's)

00:53:07 herbijudlestoids: coo

00:53:35 mircea_popescu: anyway, my point was more that the trades streamed when it was half a bitcoin worth 50 dollars, and it's still streaming when it's 50 bitcoins worth 50k

00:54:01 mircea_popescu: and from there to 50m is about the same distance.

00:54:33 herbijudlestoids: not sure if youre talking to me, but do oyu really believe BTCUSD valued at 1mio?

00:55:08 benkay: of course

00:55:15 benkay: herbijudlestoids ^^

00:55:17 jurov: if btc is to be small part of international trade

00:55:20 benkay: this is a room of true believers ;)

00:55:26 jurov: then it just has to go there

00:55:37 herbijudlestoids: well the highest valuation i had heard so far was 798,000

00:55:47 benkay: oddly specific number.

00:55:54 benkay: sounds like a winkle.

00:55:56 herbijudlestoids: i take notes of oddly specific numbers

00:56:00 herbijudlestoids: winkle?

00:56:17 nubbins`: voss

00:56:24 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/

00:56:24 benkay: something a winklevii drops on the floor and nobody wants to touch

00:56:25 ozbot: Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

00:56:35 mircea_popescu: lol ozbot delayed

00:57:21 nubbins`: mircea_popescu, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359006.msg4849297#msg4849297

00:57:32 nubbins`: i tried!

00:58:03 mircea_popescu: john guy keeps disappearing.

00:58:23 nubbins`: nod.

00:58:24 mircea_popescu: anyway, not the first time cluelessnes costs a guy his bread.

00:58:28 nubbins`: sometimes for months at a time

00:58:50 nubbins`: the "salty" he mentioned, i've done business with

00:59:01 nubbins`: just checked to see if he's in the wot, lel: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=saltyspitoon

01:00:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00090076 = 10.3587 BTC [-] {3}

01:00:24 mircea_popescu: lol i guess it marginally qualifies.

01:00:38 herbijudlestoids: hmmm

01:01:47 deadweasel: so, mp, what kind of hitler are you?

01:01:54 deadweasel: on da beach? in da muff?

01:02:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 71 @ 0.049 = 3.479 BTC [+]

01:02:19 mircea_popescu: no idea

01:02:25 mircea_popescu: artist's gotta have some freedom neh ?

01:02:34 deadweasel: it seems to scare him..

01:02:53 deadweasel: he should do one like marge did of Monty Burns.

01:02:53 mircea_popescu: it's a sad time we live in when the close minded burgeois scares the revolutionary artists.

01:02:59 mircea_popescu: shouldn't it be the other backwards around ?

01:03:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12786 @ 0.00090137 = 11.5249 BTC [+]

01:03:24 deadweasel: i try not to should on things anymore, I'm always wrong.

01:03:33 jurov: benkay, what??? are we are talking about the portrait you wanted to procure?

01:03:55 nubbins`: relevant video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2YLZc_gDMM

01:04:03 nubbins`: i may have pasted that one here before

01:04:24 benkay: dah what jurov?

01:04:38 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: have you ever heard of the freegold hypothesis?

01:04:58 herbijudlestoids: i guess its one option you didnt consider

01:05:01 mircea_popescu: so i have

01:05:06 jurov: someone wanted to procure mirceas portrait

01:05:13 herbijudlestoids: i personally put some weight behind it

01:05:22 jurov: and asked nubbins` to paint it

01:05:44 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i don't see how it limits btc

01:05:55 jurov: now i had some brainfart "that they want to paint him as hitler?"

01:05:59 herbijudlestoids: it doesnt necessarily

01:06:02 jurov: nevermind me

01:06:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00090342 = 3.6137 BTC [+]

01:06:27 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids for that matter, bitcoin could actually be it.

01:06:42 herbijudlestoids: some of the properties you apply to BTC apply equally (or more so) to gold and that is an asset that happens to already be on ECB balance sheet ;)

01:07:58 mircea_popescu: they don't apply to gold in any sense.

01:08:17 mircea_popescu: you're basically saying "the stuff i say about cars also applies to other locomobiles, such as steam powered train engines and horsedrawn carriages"

01:08:28 herbijudlestoids: "Nevertheless, the pressure is unyielding : people holding Bitcoins have no practical incentive to get rid of them, and people trying to get rid of their increasingly worthless dollars have no recourse. "

01:08:30 mircea_popescu: sure, except fundamental issues prevent either from competing with the combustion engine.

01:08:42 mircea_popescu: and since there's no room for 2nd place, it will just be this.

01:09:16 mircea_popescu: much like the us has no train infrastructure, and uses trucks for everything. trains would be more effective for trucking, but gasoline engines are more effective overall and so... trains are fucked.

01:10:00 herbijudlestoids: what youre proposing here is essentially BTC takes over the economic role of USD as global reserve asset

01:10:05 mircea_popescu: no.

01:10:28 mircea_popescu: it takes over the role of everyting. usd, eur, rmb, sdr, gold, stupid facebook tokens, in-game currencies like isk,

01:10:31 herbijudlestoids: no? so why do holders of Bitcoins have any practical incentive to hold them lol

01:10:35 mircea_popescu: likes, everything.

01:11:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00090342 = 2.3489 BTC [+]

01:11:24 mircea_popescu: this is why visa can't compete, not really, even if it doesn't know it yet.

01:11:36 herbijudlestoids: i personally feel that BTC makes a good medium of exchange but a poor store of value

01:11:39 mircea_popescu: they can't flawlessly merge ten billion likes into the value of an oil tanker.

01:11:52 mircea_popescu: that personal feel flies in the face of reality.

01:12:03 mircea_popescu: my wealth stored in btc has been doing better than anyone's any other wealth.

01:12:46 deadweasel: mircea_popescu, at some point, don't you have to start worrying about physical security.. hired goons of the status quo and whatnot?

01:12:59 mircea_popescu: do you ?

01:13:13 herbijudlestoids: so short term relative performance now equals reality? lulz

01:13:13 deadweasel: i am not valuable to the status quo

01:13:23 deadweasel: so no, not until my government runs phsyically amok

01:13:24 mircea_popescu: but you did buy like... a lock.

01:13:42 mircea_popescu: which was a % of your net worth.

01:14:04 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids well, reality is that which happens, you know ?

01:15:05 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: so if i do a quick stock scan and find all the global penny stocks that outperformed BTC since inception, wouldnt those actually be the best store of value :/

01:15:14 herbijudlestoids: surely you jest

01:15:22 mircea_popescu: for curiosity, do this :

01:15:30 mircea_popescu: find penny stocks worth < 1 cent per share in 2010

01:15:39 mircea_popescu: that are now worth > 1000 dollars per share.

01:15:43 deadweasel: lol

01:15:49 jurov: ^ with billions total valuation

01:15:54 mircea_popescu: we're not talking six month's worth of pump and dump here.

01:15:57 mircea_popescu: we're talking four friggin years.

01:16:04 mircea_popescu: short term, yes. reality ? also yes.

01:17:55 mircea_popescu: i'm kind-of curious if he actually finds one. afaik it doesn't exist.

01:18:36 herbijudlestoids: your scan parameters are wrong

01:18:40 mircea_popescu: how so /

01:18:48 herbijudlestoids: you should be looking for a 4Y ROC 100000%

01:18:50 mircea_popescu: 10k btc pizza actually happened in 2010.

01:19:16 mircea_popescu: mno. <1 cent to 1k usd = 10000000%

01:19:47 herbijudlestoids: sorry yea, but the scan "1c to 1k" is wrong

01:20:09 mircea_popescu: (technically 10k btc for a 19 dollar pizza would mean 0.19 cents each, but we'll let that slide)

01:20:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00090139 = 14.6025 BTC [-] {2}

01:20:31 mircea_popescu: so scour the entire list of known pinks for anything matching it, i'm not picky.

01:20:42 benkay: pinks?

01:20:48 mircea_popescu: you can go all the way to 1950 for all i care.

01:20:58 mircea_popescu: benkay they used to be printed on pink paper.

01:22:01 benkay: ha

01:22:29 mircea_popescu: that juicy moment when person suddenly realises the immensity of this shit.

01:26:50 herbijudlestoids: give me a sec

01:26:59 herbijudlestoids: took me a second to make the scan

01:27:23 mircea_popescu: i'ma go spank a girl till you find anything ?

01:27:39 mircea_popescu: poor her, that'd suck as a fate huh.

01:27:43 herbijudlestoids: scanning now, largest so far is BIOM on LSE 46,959%

01:27:51 mircea_popescu: o i remember biom

01:28:13 mircea_popescu: foot prosthetics or something like that they did

01:30:15 herbijudlestoids: ok that was the biggest one

01:30:19 mircea_popescu: um

01:30:25 mircea_popescu: actually it seems it's not what i thought it was

01:30:29 herbijudlestoids: about ~5 stocks in the 10-50,000 range

01:30:30 mircea_popescu: biome plc

01:30:47 mircea_popescu: well you see... 50k ain't 10mn. not even close.

01:31:03 jurov: http://bitbet.us/bet/745/fico-will-be-elected-president-of-slovakia/#c2416 kakobrekla unicode fail

01:31:04 ozbot: BitBet - Fico will be elected President of Slovakia

01:31:19 mircea_popescu: some guy there is seriously named FICO ?

01:31:22 jurov: local chars are missing

01:31:27 mircea_popescu: o o

01:31:27 jurov: yes. robert fico

01:31:36 herbijudlestoids: so maybe my maths is retarded but i calculated (1000-0.01)/0.01=99999%

01:31:39 mircea_popescu: well... i hope his credit is good...

01:31:46 herbijudlestoids: so how did we get 10 million?

01:32:04 mircea_popescu: where did you get the % from ?

01:32:12 herbijudlestoids: rate of change

01:32:14 mircea_popescu: ...

01:32:20 kakobrekla: jurov bitbet doesnt like your char

01:32:21 mircea_popescu: so on the right you get a % for free ?

01:32:36 mircea_popescu: (10-5)/5 = 1% ?

01:32:45 herbijudlestoids: o right, yea my maths is retarded gotta * 100

01:33:34 mircea_popescu: those last two digits are the best two digits.

01:34:38 herbijudlestoids: i guess up to oyu if you wanna use 4Y ROC as proof of its viability as a store of value but i dont feel very convinced

01:35:06 mircea_popescu: im not trying to convince you. i merely made the previous points.

01:35:14 herbijudlestoids: yep

01:35:44 mircea_popescu: fact is so far it did so work. what the future brings... the future knows.

01:36:41 herbijudlestoids: well it works inasmuch as you can convince people to join the BTC economy and exchange real good and services, and in cases where you cant it doesnt work

01:36:46 mircea_popescu: not at all.

01:37:06 mircea_popescu: this is like the intuition of everyone, but it's perfectly false. bitcoin works fine irrespective of what anyone does.

01:37:13 herbijudlestoids: i doubt you actually expect that your net worth denominated in BTC would be equal to a fraction if you tried to convert it all at once to say USD or whatever

01:37:20 mircea_popescu: so you doubt.

01:37:46 mircea_popescu: you familiar with gresham's law ?

01:37:55 herbijudlestoids: am i wrong? do you expect theres enough liquidity for you to make a transition like that without any loss?

01:37:58 herbijudlestoids: yes

01:37:58 herbijudlestoids: quite :)

01:38:05 mircea_popescu: ok so. it doesn';t matter what people do or don't do

01:38:23 mircea_popescu: merely the preference to save strong currencies and to spend weak ones ensures the price differential.

01:38:50 mircea_popescu: compared to anything else man made, bitcoin is adamantine.

01:39:16 herbijudlestoids: i swear i mentioned something about global reserve asset earlier

01:39:25 herbijudlestoids: preference to save is enforced by the marginal global saver

01:39:30 mircea_popescu: so i mentioned something in 2011, what of it >D

01:39:32 herbijudlestoids: what they save in is the store of value

01:40:13 herbijudlestoids: you cant just call a currency the strong one for no reason. the use of a particular asset as a store of value by the marginal global saver(s) is what gives it that characteristic

01:41:06 herbijudlestoids: i.e. what are those entities converting their productive surplus into

01:41:08 mircea_popescu: but i have an excellent statistical reason

01:41:11 mircea_popescu: that 10mn earlier.

01:41:17 mircea_popescu: no business in the history of business did anything like this

01:41:23 mircea_popescu: only currencies can, and only currencies do.

01:41:54 mircea_popescu: basically in the 2010-2014 the entire world had a zimbabwe moment

01:41:57 mircea_popescu: and didn't even know it.

01:42:08 mircea_popescu: (much like the actual peasants of zimbabwe, what do they know of finance)

01:42:45 jurov: oh, they did notice ever fattening stacks of bills

01:43:08 mircea_popescu: i guess. and obama is increasing the minimum wage, and more qe, and more bailouts, and so on and so forth.

01:43:24 herbijudlestoids: im not really sure what any of the above has to do with greshams law lol

01:43:56 mircea_popescu: it's a better model than the "marginal saver", in that it relies less on statistical artificery.

01:45:52 mircea_popescu: other than the statistical reason (ie, bitcoin is the strong currency because of its history) there are actually legions of other reasons. bitcoin is fungible, unlike any other fiat

01:46:00 mircea_popescu: (in that no court can order the de-fungibilisation of bitcoin)

01:46:17 mircea_popescu: in any dispute of currency the more fungible wins, period.

01:50:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00426999 = 0.427 BTC [+]

01:51:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 60 @ 0.00426999 = 0.2562 BTC [+]

01:51:05 herbijudlestoids: i think youre a pretty smart guy, dont really want to get into a full blown thing so i will just say i disagree that through the lens of greshams law, bitcoin is the "strong currency" which savers have a preference to save in. if youre interested in maybe considering a different view heres FOFOA on the topic (a bit long) http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/bitcoin-open-forum-part-3.html

01:52:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00426999 = 0.2135 BTC [+]

01:52:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00090342 = 8.5373 BTC [+]

01:52:04 mircea_popescu: you gotta appreciate this position is in no way novel to me, you know.

01:52:17 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: appreciate that

01:52:45 mircea_popescu: for that matter, moldbug is still shy on my bet

01:53:02 mircea_popescu: ( http://fraudsters.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/ )

01:53:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 65 @ 0.00426999 = 0.2775 BTC [+] {2}

01:53:47 mircea_popescu: and you'll be well advised to take note that for all his childish posturing a) yarvin capitulated and tried to make his own bitcoin

01:53:52 mircea_popescu: b) which attempt bitcoin crushed.

01:54:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 40 @ 0.00426999 = 0.1708 BTC [+]

01:56:08 herbijudlestoids: hmmm well i would never have argued that the USG will shutdown bitcoin or that bitcoin will be worthless, those seem like two stupid things to bet on

01:56:35 herbijudlestoids: although i would posit that considering the nature of centralisation of the internet currently, it might not be that hard for the USG to do so

01:56:53 herbijudlestoids: also i dont think bitcoin is worthless, i think it has a considerable value as a medium of exchange

01:57:56 decimation: I think Mr. Yarvin was correct in his analysis about the game theory of bitcoin saving

01:58:05 decimation: it's Gresham's law, as MP mentioned

01:58:38 kakobrekla: hm i didnt know davinci way gay

01:58:44 kakobrekla: was*

01:58:44 decimation: he underestimated the avarice of those who would influence USG decisionmaking

01:58:46 CheckDavid: how does gresham's apply to bitcoin'

01:59:42 herbijudlestoids: can you please explain for us retards, how "bitcoin just is"? considering it requires a globally distributed network of hosts to constantly verify and transact? fractures introduced to the network topology, or similar, seem to argue against the idea that bitcoin is simply a mathematical construct. you need compute power and communication to implement and distribute the construct

02:00:07 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids ironically, the medium of exchange function is the thing at which bitcoin sucks worst.

02:00:23 decimation: It exists just like the democrats and republicans exist

02:00:34 decimation: there's no reason why they exist really, everyone could change their minds tomorrow

02:00:36 decimation: yet they don't

02:00:38 decimation: and won't

02:00:53 mircea_popescu: since i'm doing a fraudsters retrospective apparently, here, see that : http://fraudsters.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/#comment-92015

02:01:13 herbijudlestoids: decimation: wut? is that seriously the answer?

02:01:15 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla srsly ?!

02:01:31 decimation: why not?

02:01:36 kakobrekla: yea

02:01:37 kakobrekla: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsE0BwQ3l8U&feature=youtu.be&t=27m47s

02:01:50 mircea_popescu: who else did you not know was gay ? elton john ? boy george ?

02:01:53 mircea_popescu: queen lezzie ?

02:02:07 kakobrekla: i dunno, i do not study these things.

02:02:43 mircea_popescu: you don't study lezzies.

02:03:10 herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: the comment you sent me seems to directly contradict your statement that bitcoin will replace everything

02:03:11 decimation: LoL that German youtube guy "Der Diktator der Kunst ist Ideal."

02:03:12 Dimsler_: mircea_popescu, what are you estimate daily active users at

02:03:15 Dimsler_: currently

02:03:19 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids how so ?

02:03:28 mircea_popescu: Dimsler_ active users of what, pot ? i dunno, 50mn.

02:03:36 Dimsler_: btc

02:03:49 mircea_popescu: i have no idea. there's like 7k or so full nodes iirc.

02:03:57 herbijudlestoids: if it is to replace everything, how can it also "never be a direct means of payment for retail anything"

02:04:24 mircea_popescu: where's the contradiction ?

02:05:07 mircea_popescu: has electricity replaced female labour in the house or hasn't it ?

02:05:12 herbijudlestoids: well, i assume your "everything" includes direct means of payment for retail things, since you included even facebook ecash or whatever in your list of things it is to replace

02:05:13 mircea_popescu: sure, it still needs appliances.

02:05:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00090211 = 3.8791 BTC [-]

02:05:52 mircea_popescu: you're going to have stuff built on top of btc to handle the subsidiary and marginal task of retail.

02:06:03 mircea_popescu: but btc will dictate how these look and how they work and how they feel and even what retail is.

02:06:29 mircea_popescu: much like... no 1800s woman on her knees polishing the floors is much represented in the modern vacuum cleanner.

02:07:25 decimation: There's no reason in principle why one couldn't extend bank credit which is convertible to claims on BTC

02:07:36 decimation: Therefore no reason why you couldn't run a btc credit card

02:07:45 decimation: of course you would want a non-retarded security model

02:07:52 mircea_popescu: actually, to clarify, "takes over" != "replaces".

02:08:01 mircea_popescu: at least, not in your reading.

02:08:53 decimation: I'm also assuming the word "bank" means something different than the modern western concept

02:09:10 decimation: like, the bank knows about your actual credit riskiness, rather than just accepting fiat insurance

02:10:49 decimation: I donno, I came to bitcoin via Mr. Yarvin. In retrospect his doubts about Bitcoin look silly.

02:13:23 herbijudlestoids: ok, well im not really sure how bitcoin not being used for retail makes it a bad MoE, but ok thats your view

02:13:47 herbijudlestoids: decimation: not really sure what your comment re republocrats was about, very far from the answer i was looking for

02:13:55 herbijudlestoids: or even the type of answer

02:15:16 decimation: well, what I was attempting to convey was the idea that bitcoin is contingent on coordination amoung many in a mysterious way

02:15:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1050 @ 0.00090342 = 0.9486 BTC [+]

02:15:45 decimation: In the same way, the US political parties stay in power even when both obviously operate against the interests of those who are coordinating

02:16:21 herbijudlestoids: err if bitcoin is contingent on coordination then the statement "bitcoin just is" is false.

02:16:25 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i merely said that out of the various functions, that happens to be the one it does worst.

02:16:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144 @ 0.00090708 = 0.1306 BTC [+]

02:16:35 mircea_popescu: doesn't mean it's bad. just means it's much better at other things.

02:17:10 herbijudlestoids: "bitcoin just is, as long as many coordinate in a mysterious way"

02:17:12 decimation: Do you think the triangle is in a simliarly precarious position?

02:17:12 herbijudlestoids: difference.

02:17:27 mircea_popescu: be so kind not to modify my statements by your discussions with third parties eh :D

02:17:42 herbijudlestoids: sorry mircea_popescu

02:17:53 herbijudlestoids: decimation: how much crack do you smoke?

02:18:00 decimation: Indeed.

02:18:42 herbijudlestoids: surely by now your dealer must know you by first name

02:19:25 mircea_popescu: the mark of the true junkie : he keeps a stable of dealers, rather than the other way around

02:20:23 kakobrekla: up his ass, or ?

02:21:14 mircea_popescu: lol

02:21:23 decimation: http://about.bloomberglaw.com/legal-news/new-york-state-regulator-promises-tough-bitcoin-rules/

02:21:24 ozbot: New York State Regulator Promises Tough Bitcoin Rules - Bloomberg Law

02:21:31 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 200 @ 0.00166253 = 0.3325 BTC [+]

02:21:53 mircea_popescu: lol new york, trying hard to outdo new jersey

02:22:34 mircea_popescu: ?If the choice for regulators is to permit money laundering on the one hand, or to permit innovation on the other, we are always going to choose squelching the money laundering first,? Lawsky said at the hearing.

02:22:36 mircea_popescu: win.

02:23:09 decimation: Indeed. Exactly as you predicted, the regulators are more than happy to cede currency regulation to Bitcoin, if Bitcoin allows them to crowbar their banks.

02:24:19 mircea_popescu: it's funny tho, making exactly the wrong moves. you couldn't pay them to be this conveniently stupid.

02:24:31 decimation: The hilarious part to me is that they think their "bitlicense" will allow to them dictate to bitcoin, rather than the other way around

02:25:47 mircea_popescu: bitcoin was taken to $10 by lulz, to $100 by lulz and drama and to $1000 by lulz, drama and mining.

02:26:02 decimation: It's going to go to > 1 mil based on this stuff

02:26:12 mircea_popescu: i guess with the extra "watch us fail" boost 10k may even be possible

02:26:26 decimation: It's because a few indiviuals in key positions think they can ride the wave of terror to power

02:26:33 Dimsler_: i think 50k will be possible

02:26:44 Dimsler_: i think the run up will be one that nobody will be expecting

02:26:53 Dimsler_: from the historical research on bubles i've read

02:26:57 Dimsler_: 50k is quite possible

02:27:15 mircea_popescu: ?If that same company can be started in the U.K. or Germany, maybe that innovation just gets pushed offshore,? Liew said.

02:27:20 mircea_popescu: "Nobody will care that the original paper may have been written by an American and the original discussion on the long forgotten original Bitcoin forum was carried in English. I can deal just as well with Russian investors, I can deal just as well with Chinese investors, Bitcoin is completely neutral from a cultural perspective. This neutrality means that cultures will have to compete. So far the US is losing this comp

02:27:21 mircea_popescu: etition at this level. If things don?t get fixed soon the only thing that we?ll be able to say for sure about Bitcoin regulation will be that it won?t be written in English, and it won?t consider US interests or sensibilities."

02:27:24 mircea_popescu: mircea popescu said

02:27:34 mircea_popescu: except... you know, a little earlier.

02:27:37 decimation: Yep

02:27:47 Dimsler_: well i dont' really want to deal with the west

02:27:48 decimation: "

02:27:57 Dimsler_: btc-e is russian so is g.hash

02:27:59 decimation: Lawsky at times sympathized with the goals of the investors at the hearing, complaining that it could take ?days? to pay his credit card from a bank account. And he criticized fees immigrants pay to send money home, and welcomed the chance to use Bitcoin to reduce the costs.

02:28:01 decimation: ?That?s a huge thing, for the country and New Yorkers,? Lawsky said.

02:28:03 mircea_popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2013/the-future-of-bitcoin-regulation/

02:28:03 Dimsler_: both operate in secrecay

02:28:04 ozbot: The future of Bitcoin regulation pe fraudsters - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

02:28:05 Dimsler_: under silence

02:28:08 mircea_popescu: "This is possibly the last chance to take those piles of fundamentally worthless US dollars and use them for something with any sort of future value."

02:28:09 Dimsler_: the way it should be

02:28:12 mircea_popescu: last chance came... and went.

02:28:26 decimation: It's a huge thing for New Yorkers indeed.

02:28:49 herbijudlestoids: lol it went?

02:28:56 herbijudlestoids: yet it could still go to 50k?

02:29:10 mircea_popescu: ?The Bitcoin ecosystem of companies and investors has to engage to allay real concerns and avoid being pigeonholed by policy makers,? Klein said.

02:29:18 mircea_popescu: ahahaha! HAS TO ?

02:29:31 mircea_popescu: lol. listen to them go

02:29:40 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids yup.

02:30:20 herbijudlestoids: implication is that its no longer possible to exchange USD for something with any sort of future value...

02:30:27 mircea_popescu: you're trapped in this mental representation wherein stuff can only happen with permission. this is not how things happen. your choice is whether you're on the boat when it sails or not.

02:30:32 mircea_popescu: your choice is not whether the boat sails, or when.

02:30:36 mircea_popescu: or how, or where to.

02:30:49 mircea_popescu: not practically, no.

02:30:59 mircea_popescu: technically it is still possible, but in retrospect it'

02:31:08 mircea_popescu: ll be one of those things that "could hav been"

02:31:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20128 @ 0.00090108 = 18.1369 BTC [-] {2}

02:31:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

02:31:42 herbijudlestoids: im not trapped in any such mental representation and dont really believe for example that a BTCUSD price punctuation event would need "permission" to occur lol

02:32:15 decimation: what controlling factor would limit its rise?

02:32:18 herbijudlestoids: if the possibility came and went then the implication is that people *today* have literally no option for investment...so BTCs are out for those people?

02:32:18 mircea_popescu: well, i dun know what you think, obviously. im merely noticing that what you say comes from this one point of view.

02:32:33 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids the article was discussing investors, you know ?

02:32:41 herbijudlestoids: right

02:32:47 Dimsler_: more lke speculators

02:32:51 mircea_popescu: now, people do have options. it's just they won't take them.

02:33:01 mircea_popescu: there's options you have, and then there's options you actually can take.

02:33:10 mircea_popescu: some are forbidden, some just escape your view.

02:33:19 herbijudlestoids: but the opportunity has not gone

02:33:24 mircea_popescu: technically.

02:33:27 herbijudlestoids: you said it has gone :P

02:33:32 mircea_popescu: in practice, it's gone.

02:33:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00089833 = 11.274 BTC [-] {2}

02:33:43 Dimsler_: what are we talking about

02:33:44 Dimsler_: whats gone?

02:33:47 mircea_popescu: if back in april wanna-be investors had actually invested, the us still had a chance.

02:33:54 mircea_popescu: should have started earlier, but there was still space.

02:34:04 mircea_popescu: by now... heh. hardly.

02:34:14 mircea_popescu: Dimsler_ link above.

02:34:16 Dimsler_: are we talking about btc speculation?

02:34:16 decimation: There are only a few more orders of magnitude of growth left before it becomes the world trade currency

02:34:27 mircea_popescu: decimation the people are more important.

02:34:37 mircea_popescu: the fact that andressen horovitz is not in the wot today dooms it.

02:34:43 mircea_popescu: should have been in the wot two years ago.

02:34:48 decimation: Or Paul Singer?

02:34:50 Dimsler_: fucking jew

02:34:52 mircea_popescu: or whoever.

02:35:12 decimation: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/01/28/hedge-fund-manager-paul-singer-shocked-by-bitcoin-popularity/

02:35:13 ozbot: Hedge-Fund Manager Paul Singer ‘Shocked’ by Bitcoin Popularity - MoneyBeat - WSJ

02:35:56 Dimsler_: bitcoins not that popular

02:36:00 Dimsler_: 4mil users?

02:36:00 Dimsler_: lol

02:36:04 Dimsler_: maybe 500k active

02:36:12 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids let's examine the following avenue : maddoff's "investments" collapsed like so much termite eaten furniture.

02:36:14 mircea_popescu: why was this ?

02:36:22 mircea_popescu: "mismanagement" right ? "misrepresentation", right ?

02:36:27 Dimsler_: maddoff ran a pyramid scheme

02:36:32 Dimsler_: fed by blind greed

02:36:35 mircea_popescu: well... what exactly is this misrepresentation ? what is its substance ?

02:36:44 Dimsler_: there wasn't any

02:37:04 mircea_popescu: a cluelessness about the real value of assets, which may as well mean "buying US stocks" as it may mean "moving money from our account to our account"

02:37:24 Dimsler_: well the problem with US stocks is they all suck

02:37:34 Dimsler_: unless you're buying tobacco or liquor

02:37:36 decimation: US stocks are a trival case of the CEO's pirating money from the "investor's" 401k accounts

02:37:36 herbijudlestoids: madoffs investments collapsed because of a cluelessness about the real value of assets?

02:37:38 Dimsler_: everything else sucks

02:37:39 mircea_popescu: can you prove to me the entire troop of us hedge funds aren't little maddofs running around, shielded by "industry standards" ?

02:37:59 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids yes. you disagree ?

02:38:11 herbijudlestoids: not sure that statement made much sense to me

02:38:20 mircea_popescu: ok. let's get to the bottom of this.

02:38:24 Dimsler_: how does it not make any sense

02:38:28 herbijudlestoids: but i can prove to you quite easily through factor decomposition that most US hedge funds are not doing anything special at all

02:38:30 Dimsler_: the US stock market is a giant boiler room

02:38:33 mircea_popescu: maddoff's balancesheet, before the collapse, showed some assets.

02:38:35 mircea_popescu: right ?

02:38:41 Dimsler_: a game of hotpotatoe

02:38:48 Dimsler_: refer to current price of facebook stock

02:39:01 herbijudlestoids: i wish people would stop interrupting your interesting comments with inane bullshit so i can try to understand

02:39:01 Dimsler_: huge market cap, little revenue

02:39:02 asciilifeform: "can you prove to me the entire troop of us hedge funds aren't little maddofs running around, shielded..." << i can prove that this /must/ be so

02:39:03 Dimsler_: little value

02:39:11 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids no such luck on irc :)

02:39:19 herbijudlestoids: stfu morons

02:39:22 mircea_popescu: lol

02:39:34 Dimsler_: i'm summerizing his comments

02:39:38 Dimsler_: into peasent english for you

02:39:40 Dimsler_: to understand

02:39:47 mircea_popescu: it'll be a pm discussion.

02:39:59 herbijudlestoids: your summary is about as useful as the stupid analogy that decimation gave earlier.

02:40:16 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids dja know how to use the pm system ?

02:41:07 Apocalyptic: keep it in the chan mircea_popescu if you can

02:41:23 Apocalyptic: herbijudlestoids, just /ignore people that annoy you

02:41:41 kakobrekla: you have just been ignored.

02:42:18 mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic i'll just publish the thing when we're done

02:47:42 TomServo: I got all excited and ran out of log. :(

02:47:55 kakobrekla: lmaio

02:47:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.0009054 = 7.3337 BTC [+] {2}

02:49:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18450 @ 0.00090024 = 16.6094 BTC [-]

02:50:07 decimation: If not bitcoin, than some other cryptocurrency. And if any cryptocurrency, than bitcoin.

02:55:49 decimation: asciilifeform you mention on your blog your efforts to discover the inner workings of FPGAs - have you made enough progress to create a self-modifying compute unit?

02:56:50 asciilifeform: decimation: depends what you mean by 'self-modifying'

02:57:16 asciilifeform: the protocol for pumping in the 'bitstream' is simple and documented;

02:57:39 decimation: I mean that it can program itself after design time

02:57:40 asciilifeform: the correspondence between each bit of the bitstream and the internal logic of the fpga is a $billion secret

02:57:47 decimation: ah

02:58:00 asciilifeform: the reason for this secrecy is interesting and perverse

02:58:37 asciilifeform: the major vendors earn far more renting out 'cores' (read: libraries, for things like ethernet and pci) than through selling the chips per se.

02:59:21 decimation: Why hasn't something like "opencores" largely replaced that?

02:59:36 asciilifeform: because the opencores libs aren't optimized for a particular fpga

02:59:52 asciilifeform: and therefore have mediocre-to-poor performance on most jobs

02:59:59 asciilifeform: take, for instance, sdram controllers

03:00:21 asciilifeform: if you don't optimize for a particular fpga, you can't get anything close to the maximum rated clock of the sdram in question

03:00:44 asciilifeform: because each logic element (incl. switch matrix) in the path is an extra few ns. of delay

03:01:00 asciilifeform: and the whole shebang is speed-limited by its 'weakest link' (longest delay)

03:01:10 decimation: Is it a clock speed question or is it a quantity of gates question?

03:01:26 asciilifeform: those are directly related. but yes, both.

03:02:06 asciilifeform: likewise, each vendor (and even particular flavours of fpga from same vendor) provides slightly different building blocks on top of the usual LUTs

03:02:16 asciilifeform: e.g. multipliers, shift registers, etc

03:02:46 asciilifeform: if your design maps well to what you have, you get decent (minimal) 'footprint' and speed

03:02:50 asciilifeform: if not, then not.

03:03:00 decimation: Interesting. So these companies make their money by building proprietary cores on top of their proprietary chips.

03:03:38 asciilifeform: the closed architectures are motivated not only by fear of reverse-engineered licensed cores, but

03:03:58 asciilifeform: they have an incentive to make it as painful as possible to write anything from scratch

03:04:45 decimation: So they insert an artifical layer of indirection in the hardware and give you an opaque software layer to undo it

03:05:02 asciilifeform: not quite artificial

03:05:13 asciilifeform: the internals really are somewhat complicated

03:06:00 decimation: So, why doesn't some no-name Chinese fab make a relatively "generic" chip and take over the market?

03:06:02 asciilifeform: likewise, the vendor software usually includes a mountain of 'travelling salesman' optimization trickery licensed from hell knows where

03:06:22 decimation: I guess it wouldn't include said trickery

03:06:39 asciilifeform: the chinese, according to some, do make clones of various Xilinx units

03:06:48 asciilifeform: but presumably they simply use pirated tool chain

03:07:04 asciilifeform: just like soviet pdp clones often ran unmodified pirated os

03:07:12 asciilifeform: that was sort of the whole point

03:07:17 asciilifeform: avoid the dev work

03:07:38 asciilifeform: you don't actually need to understand very much about an IC design to clone it.

03:07:49 decimation: Presuming you have the mask?

03:07:55 asciilifeform: you can get the mask.

03:08:01 asciilifeform: (it's in there, after all.)

03:08:27 asciilifeform: this is how soviet clones of DEC chips ended up exact duplicates, complete with the (poorly translated, with a dictionary, by DEC) profanities

03:11:31 Apocalyptic: mircea, fair enough

03:13:16 decimation: Do you think there will ever be a day when hardware makers find it in their interest to peddle hardware that has an accessible interface?

03:13:39 decimation: Or will they always be beholden to chasing after some lock-in dream?

03:14:25 asciilifeform: transparent hardware -> $, lock-in -> $$$$$$

03:15:03 decimation: And yet, bunnie points out that freescale has opened the docs for their ARM clone

03:15:26 asciilifeform: docs only, or the complete chip mask and sources for the latter ?

03:15:41 asciilifeform: highly doubt (2), if only because arm is a licensed product

03:16:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9688 @ 0.00090525 = 8.7701 BTC [+] {2}

03:16:42 decimation: I suspect only datasheet/programming model

03:16:45 asciilifeform: interestingly, the earliest (late '80s) fpgas did not have this problem

03:16:52 decimation: and they probably only open that because they are a two-bit player

03:17:05 asciilifeform: they were well-documented and extremely simple, because they were originally just a substitute for buckets of PALs/GALs

03:17:23 asciilifeform: no one would've dreamed of trying to implement a cpu on one

03:17:36 asciilifeform: a few thousand gates, max

03:18:26 asciilifeform: today there are fpgas with several mil. of gates, costing in the high five figures (u.s. dollar)

03:18:33 asciilifeform: and you still won't get layout docs

03:18:54 nubbins`: i downloaded an osx program the other day, double-clicked to open, "this application was not created by an authorized developer" or some such

03:19:01 nubbins`: had to right-click and select open

03:19:05 nubbins`: :(

03:19:05 decimation: Plus, good luck achieving max clock rate and not melting the chip

03:19:47 asciilifeform: decimation: the vendor toolchain usually calculates your maximum clock rate, based on theoretical path delays (usually a conservative figure, as you'd expect)

03:20:41 asciilifeform: nubbins`: welcome to the Nintendoized world

03:20:44 decimation: suppose your design occupies most of the gates and ends up clocking nearly all of them at max rate.

03:21:06 decimation: It seems that at some point you are going to need more current

03:21:08 nubbins`: asciilifeform, i always was curious about the "walled garden!!" type people who also owned consoles

03:21:27 nubbins`: no fuckin shit it's a walled garden, y'know?

03:21:50 nubbins`: that said, nothing more than a mild inconvenience to disable the feature, i'm sure

03:21:53 asciilifeform: decimation: vendor usually specifies a max current. and then you go, X cm^s, Y watts dissipated, need such and such heat sink...

03:22:05 asciilifeform: *cm^2

03:23:27 asciilifeform: nubbins`: don't be surprised if mac os '11' or whatnot simply refuses to run 'unsigned' apps

03:23:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 122 @ 0.00084426 = 0.103 BTC [+]

03:23:42 decimation: nubbins` - I enjoyed your German painter link. "Der Diktator der Kunst ist Ideal."

03:24:16 decimation: that's the obvious next step for apple to take

03:24:25 decimation: I believe they have unofficially said as much

03:24:28 nubbins`: asciilifeform, that'd be the worry, but i don't think it'll happen any time soon

03:24:28 asciilifeform: never forget why MS bailed out apple in the '90s.

03:24:45 nubbins`: decimation, jonathan meese is an intense man

03:25:58 asciilifeform: apple is the 'good cop' in a classic 'good cop / bad cop' number.

03:26:35 nubbins`: don't get me wrong, they'll fuck ya raw all kinds of ways for a buck

03:27:14 herbijudlestoids: after a rigorous discussion on bitcoin, i always top it off with a quick

03:27:15 herbijudlestoids: .bait

03:27:16 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mas3ygVSjO1qeoz8ro1_1280.jpg

03:27:53 nubbins`: but i don't think there's enough to gain from blocking all unsigned apps for them to risk it

03:27:56 decimation: Ascii, have you considered that the insecurity of MS (and apple) crapware now justifies the Pentagon's budgets?

03:28:33 asciilifeform: decimation: i get to consider this every day, for money.

03:28:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00090052 = 12.157 BTC [-]

03:28:55 nubbins`: heh

03:29:24 decimation: For the amount of money the USG shovels into the beltway bandits, we could have your princely secure terminals

03:29:28 asciilifeform: ms turned the 'email virus' from an urban legend into reality, single-handed.

03:29:51 Apocalyptic: herbijudlestoids, so you guys are done ?

03:29:59 herbijudlestoids: im baitin arent i?

03:30:52 asciilifeform: the software 'industry' has the memory of an alzheimer's patient. it's like the '90s never happened.

03:31:39 nubbins`: the number of lost hours alone spent making websites work with ie6

03:31:44 asciilifeform: and ms isn't a company in the sense of, say, coca cola (or even the original 'standard oil') - it's a crown monopoly

03:31:45 nubbins`: (and 7, 8, 9)

03:32:19 asciilifeform: if no consumer ever bought a winblows pc in a retail shop again, it would survive in something close to its current size, simply from the government largesse

03:32:50 herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: interesting thought, i hear yesterday the UK endorsed ODF for all documents in the future

03:33:16 nubbins`: "we can't open this, can you send it in .doc?"

03:33:31 Apocalyptic: better send it as niggers.txt

03:33:33 asciilifeform: the real one?

03:33:38 asciilifeform: or the ms 'embrace and extend'ed turd

03:33:49 nubbins`: odf 3.11

03:33:53 herbijudlestoids: they just spec ODF

03:34:04 herbijudlestoids: so i guess real one

03:36:10 KRS1: .bait

03:36:11 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/f9beca3d51fae9d5dc21e04e6af4d781/tumblr_movloedp6C1ssfdiao1_1280.jpg

03:36:23 KRS1: rawr

03:36:25 decimation: I guess when peasants buy computers, peasant computing is what we get

03:45:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00090039 = 7.4732 BTC [-] {2}

03:51:54 Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> [03:33:34] in practice, it's gone. // is it ?

03:53:02 mircea_popescu: for people who were curious : http://fraudsters.com/2014/no-argument/ the discussion

03:53:04 mircea_popescu: TomServo ^

03:54:02 herbijudlestoids: haha i got a little lost in the post where you offered 10BTC to the guy to put a sharpie in his butt

03:54:33 mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you found your way to where i used that same sharpie to rape something awful ?

03:55:07 herbijudlestoids: newp, reading the "I can't even" now lol

03:55:34 herbijudlestoids: this sentence "Right that, right there, even if she spent the entire interval nude, made soap out of her own sebum and ate food stampsvi you would not be able to cover cost." ...i feel like....i love this sentence

03:56:02 mircea_popescu: yw.

03:57:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00090024 = 2.0706 BTC [-]

04:03:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00089963 = 6.5673 BTC [-] {2}

04:05:00 decimation: I like the shout-out to "ham radio"

04:05:23 asciilifeform: re: the btcapocalypse: still seems to me like it would be wise to invent the parachute before, rather than after, being pushed out of the plane.

04:06:21 herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: pls explain for retards

04:07:10 asciilifeform: would help to get the 'ham radio' / mesh network / btc-over-pigeon system now, rather than when it becomes the only possible means of running the network.

04:07:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17574 @ 0.00090052 = 15.8257 BTC [+]

04:07:27 decimation: indeed, that sounds quite fun

04:07:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one critique i have to this is that should it be invented afore, it'll then necessarily be known afore. this is perhaps unideal. bitcoin was invented before or after ? does it work because it was invented after ? would it have, were it invented before ?

04:08:03 herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: i agree with the idea of building the infrastructure so that it doesnt necessarily need the internet

04:08:10 mircea_popescu: admitting you agree the parachute moment was at the latest nixon

04:08:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 326 @ 0.00090194 = 0.294 BTC [+]

04:09:01 asciilifeform: my argument isn't even that 'the great anti-btc firewall of earth' is coming, but that modern telecom is an extremely fragile beast

04:09:15 mircea_popescu: restructured like that i have nothing.

04:11:16 asciilifeform: mesh net is surprisingly easy, but largely non-existent because there is very little commercial incentive

04:11:23 asciilifeform: (actually, strong incentive in the other direction)

04:11:29 herbijudlestoids: there is a couple of interesting mesh options happening

04:11:34 herbijudlestoids: the obvious ones everyone knows about

04:11:57 herbijudlestoids: but also gnunet has some support for the concept, including the ability to inject packets directly onto a WLAN device without need any existing network

04:12:05 asciilifeform: even ignoring various 'license-free' radio bands, you can easily send bits to everyone on your side of your mains power step-down transformer

04:12:16 decimation: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/01/egypt-isp-shutdown/

04:12:25 ozbot: Egypt Shut Down Its Net With a Series of Phone Calls | Threat Level | Wired.com

04:12:27 decimation: ?There are a handful of big providers you would need to coordinate with and they are all licensees of the state telecom, so they are all beholden to the Telecommunication Regulatory Authority, so your license is dependent on following the rules,? Labovitz said.

04:13:12 asciilifeform: anyone interested in the subject would do well to understand the basic principles of 'spread spectrum'

04:13:13 herbijudlestoids: i would bet on this for mesh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUnet

04:13:27 herbijudlestoids: new version out recently for 30c3

04:13:42 asciilifeform: where, in principle, one can radiate sufficiently little at any given point of spectrum to make classical triangulation virtually impossible

04:14:02 herbijudlestoids: mesh adoption is sort of like bitcoin adoptoin tho

04:14:16 herbijudlestoids: how do you convince everyone to run a client, and in the end most "consumers" run it from the cloud anyway

04:14:36 asciilifeform: since this would have to be a piece of physical hardware, the only solution afaik is to manufacture a tremendous number of widgets and give them away.

04:14:44 herbijudlestoids: oooo

04:14:48 herbijudlestoids: thats an interesting idea.

04:15:23 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00090194 = 5.9077 BTC [+]

04:15:50 asciilifeform: bonus points if you can engineer the net to make operating a node a profitable affair, like btc mining

04:16:05 herbijudlestoids: theres one like that, tornet

04:16:11 herbijudlestoids: i mentioned it to those bitcloud cunts but they didnt care

04:16:15 herbijudlestoids: too busy hyping

04:16:36 asciilifeform: in fact, now that i think of it, btc is the missing puzzle piece in the ancient problem of bootstrapping a global radio mesh.

04:16:56 herbijudlestoids: admittedly i dunno how mature the code is or what. https://github.com/bytemaster/tornet

04:17:17 Duffer1: S.NSA's next project ascii? :P

04:17:30 asciilifeform: no, just idle wankery

04:17:43 herbijudlestoids: .bait

04:17:44 ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/fea5bcb598057af6a03fea1481a8ade8/tumblr_modk7pS59M1r71nhmo1_500.jpg

04:21:54 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> in fact, now that i think of it, btc is the missing puzzle piece in the ancient problem of bootstrapping a global radio mesh. << /me grins

04:22:11 mircea_popescu: btc is in fact the missing piece in the ancient problem of bootstrapping everything of this sort.

04:24:24 jayk: ;o

04:24:49 kakobrekla: even the parachute.

04:25:44 mircea_popescu: fun fact : parasuta is, in romanian, yet another word for whore.

04:26:25 herbijudlestoids: do romanians have lots of words for whore?

04:26:54 mircea_popescu: possibly the most.

04:27:01 herbijudlestoids: wow they do.

04:27:10 herbijudlestoids: but your one isnt on there

04:27:16 herbijudlestoids: http://translate.google.com/#auto/ro/whore

04:27:22 mircea_popescu: petarda (ie, firecracker) ; zdreanta (used scrap of cloth) ; there's prolly 100+

04:27:37 herbijudlestoids: ah right you include colloquialisms

04:27:50 mircea_popescu: all romanian is one huge colloquialism

04:28:21 mircea_popescu: lele actually wouldn't be recognised as such. it's a disused word and most speakers would only take it as an antiquated form for older sister/girlfriend

04:28:32 mircea_popescu: dama either, it roughly covers the us "dame"

04:28:50 herbijudlestoids: yeah you can see the little bar next to it shows google isnt as sure as for the other words

04:28:56 mircea_popescu: jesus google is shitty, there's a conjunctive verbal form there, definitely can't work as a noun nor does it mean whore.

04:29:16 mircea_popescu: a yeah.

04:29:41 mircea_popescu: wait, drab means whore in english ?!

04:30:29 herbijudlestoids: probly the entire thing is done by machine learning and no validation ;)

04:30:44 herbijudlestoids: so to the machine, somehow drab is somewhere on the synonym chain for whore

04:30:48 mircea_popescu: no, it does. won\der of wonders.

04:30:59 mircea_popescu: hey kakobrekla : it's not just slovenly, it's also slatternly!

04:31:11 mircea_popescu: does slatterna exist somewhere around /

04:31:47 herbijudlestoids: haha slatterna is a place in sweden

04:31:50 herbijudlestoids: ho ho ho i wonder

04:32:04 mircea_popescu: ;;google fraudsters poftiti la muie

04:32:05 gribble: No matches found.

04:32:08 mircea_popescu: eh come on.

04:34:05 mircea_popescu: btw herbijudlestoids do yourself a favour get in the wot today.

04:34:18 herbijudlestoids: im in it, do you mean identify myself?

04:34:51 mircea_popescu: o you are ? ok then.

04:35:08 mircea_popescu: noobs usually don't figure it out/need prodding.

04:35:25 herbijudlestoids: vexual and bingoboingo told me to go on i tthe other day

04:35:33 herbijudlestoids: i signed up because i do what im told!

04:35:49 mircea_popescu: good for you

04:35:52 herbijudlestoids: but nobody will rate me, so i cant rate bingoboingo as a 10 based on his sexual attractiveness

04:35:53 mircea_popescu: o you know those two drunks ?!

04:36:31 herbijudlestoids: i do not know them specifically except in their capacity as people i also briefly spoke to on this chan :P vex at least lives in same country and likes similar music

04:36:49 Duffer1: i suspect at least one of his buttcoins is actually him...

04:36:50 mircea_popescu: well... at least i presume vexual drinks. tho it could be any number of things :D

04:37:54 herbijudlestoids: whats the point of being on the WoT? dont i need to transact to get rating? i dont plan on transacting :P

04:37:57 herbijudlestoids: well not soon anyway

04:38:15 Duffer1: even if you don't transact you're still learning the right habits

04:38:20 mircea_popescu: the point is that if anyone needs to figure out wtf you're up to they know who to ask

04:38:25 Duffer1: gpg is useful knowledge

04:38:38 mircea_popescu: ie, the people they know that rated you

04:38:44 herbijudlestoids: yeah i knew gpg and stopped using it when they invented OTR

04:38:54 mircea_popescu: otr is a diff usecase.

04:38:56 herbijudlestoids: literally had to create a new key cos i forgot my password

04:39:06 herbijudlestoids: well, it wasnt for me obviously ;)

04:39:09 mircea_popescu: lol

04:39:32 herbijudlestoids: i think i have not signed or encrypted anything with a GPG key in years

04:39:33 mircea_popescu: otr ensures you that your messages can only be read at one point on the network, and that once the conversation is ended anyone could have written it.

04:39:41 mircea_popescu: gpg keeps the content of the conversation secret.

04:40:59 herbijudlestoids: let me explain: i used to conduct various communications using GPG over email. now i use a combination of tails, i2p and pidgin+OTR or i2pmessenger+OTR

04:41:27 herbijudlestoids: thats why i stopped using GPG

04:42:13 mircea_popescu: was i2p strong ? i don't even remember

04:42:23 herbijudlestoids: strong enough for my purposes

04:42:44 herbijudlestoids: i was a user back when it was just iip over irc so i guess iv got a softspot for it

04:43:03 mircea_popescu: o look, they got .i2p

04:43:10 mircea_popescu: hey, did namecoin end up stealing THEIR code ?

04:43:34 herbijudlestoids: what do you mean? afaik .i2p is not a globally resolvable namespace

04:43:43 herbijudlestoids: its just like a hostsfile except called addressbook

04:44:04 mircea_popescu: you know there's a coin that basically does dns

04:44:06 mircea_popescu: sort-of

04:44:13 herbijudlestoids: are you talking of namecoin?

04:44:40 herbijudlestoids: personally i prefer implementations like the GNUnet Name System (GNS)

04:44:57 mircea_popescu: yeah.

04:45:08 herbijudlestoids: but dont have much requirement for globally resolvable namespace in darknets anyway

04:45:15 herbijudlestoids: (personally)

04:45:32 herbijudlestoids: i thought there was some flaw discovered in namecoin that killed adoption

04:45:38 mircea_popescu: not afaik

04:45:59 kakobrekla: you cant kill something that isnt there

04:46:02 herbijudlestoids: http://www.coindesk.com/namecoin-flaw-patch-needed/

04:47:34 herbijudlestoids: is that article incorrect?

04:48:02 mircea_popescu: a, no. it's just more recent than i've been paying attention.

04:48:02 Apocalyptic: it's been resolved since

04:48:20 mircea_popescu: i have more like a 6 months span on stuff that far on the periphery

04:48:38 herbijudlestoids: Apocalyptic: o so patched and all good again?

04:48:45 Apocalyptic: yup

04:48:56 herbijudlestoids: maybe i should convert my 0.02BTC into NMC and buy mpex.bit

04:48:59 herbijudlestoids: just to piss off mircea_popescu

04:49:10 herbijudlestoids: :D

04:49:13 mircea_popescu: lol save it for when you run into teh fraudsters paywal

04:49:23 Apocalyptic: then sell it for 100btc

04:50:24 mircea_popescu: lol there's going to be the piss-mp-off gem on the fgorum, people buying it from each other on the grounds that any day now it'll piss me off

04:50:26 Apocalyptic: lol, someone registered impex.bit, but mpex.bit is still free

04:51:27 Duffer1: mpex.bit the latest fuffle

04:52:16 Apocalyptic: get it while it's hot

04:53:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15498 @ 0.00090315 = 13.997 BTC [+] {3}

04:54:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04998999 = 0.2499 BTC [+]

04:54:47 herbijudlestoids: seems cheap for domains

04:55:01 herbijudlestoids: 0.01NMC, you could register every word in the english dictionary for not much NMC

04:55:13 herbijudlestoids: compared to how much itd cost to get the equivalent .coms

04:55:32 Duffer1: seems like an interesting way to attack the coin

04:55:39 Duffer1: buy the dictionary

04:55:55 mircea_popescu: wasn't there some sort of limit in place ?

04:56:08 Duffer1: oh no idea

04:56:43 Apocalyptic: not afaik mircea_popescu

04:56:59 Apocalyptic: and how would you enforce such a limit ?

04:57:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.04999813 = 0.55 BTC [+] {2}

04:57:48 mircea_popescu: Since domains are extremely cheap to obtain with Namecoin, and registered domains cannot be seized (they can only be transferred by their owner), Namecoin has had problems with cybersquatters buying up domains, hoping to resell them later for a profi

04:58:43 mircea_popescu: seems the dictionary's already bought, pretty much.

04:59:14 Duffer1: that's unfortunate

04:59:33 Duffer1: i can't imagine how they'd solve that issue

04:59:59 Duffer1: other than by making domains unrealistically expensive

05:00:35 mircea_popescu: there's no good solutions to thisproblem.

05:00:41 Apocalyptic: ^

05:01:41 decimation: https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-439.txt

05:01:47 decimation: Ziff-Davis did some research using some of the bitcoin chain tracking software, tracing four addresses which were used and were determined from multiple CryptoLocker victims who, after paying their money, made public the address that they had sent payment to. The CryptoLocker extortionware acquired a total of 41, just shy of 42,000 bitcoins, 41,928 bitcoins.

05:03:11 mircea_popescu: lol is this the nut with the "fix your harddrive spin" nonsense /

05:03:24 decimation: heh yeah. sorry I couldn't find a better reference.

05:03:43 decimation: he has a mildly informative podcast which occasionally has interesting tidbits

05:03:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, this seems dubious on the face.

05:04:07 mircea_popescu: dudes had to pay what, 2btc each ?

05:04:19 herbijudlestoids: yea 2 for the first version and then less for v2

05:04:19 mircea_popescu: if they get the 42k value by looking at which addresses those 2 btc were spent

05:04:24 decimation: They dropped it to 0.3 btc

05:04:29 mircea_popescu: they're 99% certain looking at some exchange hotwallet.

05:04:53 herbijudlestoids: steve gibson lol

05:05:01 herbijudlestoids: didnt cryptome shit all over him years ago?

05:05:18 decimation: Certainly whoever wrote that virus wouldn't be dumb enough to use unique addresses?

05:05:20 mircea_popescu: who didint ? lol

05:05:33 mircea_popescu: decimation i never read it, dunno.

05:05:53 mircea_popescu: anyay, this has been enough excitement for one day. take care all!

05:06:19 herbijudlestoids: byes

05:07:15 herbijudlestoids: Apocalyptic: do you run the namecoin software?

05:07:51 decimation: herbijudlestoids did you read the moldbug essay to which your FOFOA link points?

05:07:55 bloctoc: http://www.ft.com/intl/world

05:07:56 ozbot: World News - latest world news headlines - FT.com

05:08:06 bloctoc: sorry about that

05:08:09 herbijudlestoids: decimation: i did not admittedly.

05:08:20 herbijudlestoids: is it worthwhile, or poor?

05:08:52 decimation: Perhaps I am deluded, but I thought it clarifed matters w.r.t. currency adoption

05:10:50 decimation: The "Ben Graham" analysis of bitcoin yeilds nonsense

05:10:53 decimation: but the same is true of gold

05:12:21 herbijudlestoids: yes, thats why i brought up FOFOA, because a few of the things mircea mentioned were very similar to things FOFOA has said about the concept of freegold

05:12:50 herbijudlestoids: i do not compare gold (or btc) to stocks when evaluating its job as a store of value

05:13:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 88 @ 0.00428976 = 0.3775 BTC [+] {2}

05:13:26 decimation: do you have a reference on your freegold idea?

05:13:42 herbijudlestoids: FOFOA is the reference

05:14:44 herbijudlestoids: would you like some links? easiest to google fofoa freegold and in the sitemap on google are a bunch specifically on the topic

05:15:07 herbijudlestoids: http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/freegold-foundations.html is a good place to start

05:15:08 ozbot: FOFOA: Freegold Foundations

05:15:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4202 @ 0.00090567 = 3.8056 BTC [+]

05:15:31 decimation: thanks

05:16:23 herbijudlestoids: full disclosure i converse with FOFOA occassionally and some market info and thoughts i have passed onto him have been included in some of his work. i claim no particular insight just provided otherwise proprietary market information

05:20:16 decimation: Moldbug would seem to argue that Bitcoin is harder than gold, by virtue of its finite supply

05:20:29 herbijudlestoids: yes, FOFOA also

05:20:42 decimation: but FOFOA seems to argue that gold is held in stronger hands

05:20:55 herbijudlestoids: the argument is much more nuanced than that

05:21:17 herbijudlestoids: its about roles, what asset plays what role to the aggregate world aka "superorganism"

05:21:48 herbijudlestoids: right now, USD plays the role of reserve asset (i.e. store of value), medium of exchange and unit of account globally and especially in the case of marginal producers

05:22:44 herbijudlestoids: EUR was by design (4 decades in the making) to take the role of USD on its eventual failure in those roles, but only in the roles of medium of exchange and unit of account

05:23:02 herbijudlestoids: store of value for marginal producers/savers to be carried out in gold (see ECB balance sheet)

05:23:32 herbijudlestoids: FOFOA argument is that bitcoin versus USD is a non competition, real competition is BTC versus "what comes next" i.e. EUR+Gold

05:24:14 herbijudlestoids: and while BTC might make an elegant medium of exchange it wont be adopted as a reference point like EUR since its hard

05:25:20 herbijudlestoids: the implicit assumption is that the MoE should be soft, grow/contract along with the economy

05:25:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00089625 = 14.4296 BTC [-] {2}

05:28:09 herbijudlestoids: this all goes back to mises regression theory, that money is whatever people (especially the marginal producer/consumer aka saver/borrower) use for money. ECB, peoples bank of china, oil surplus like Saudis all understand gold in the role of store of value, therefore gold is the store of value

05:28:30 herbijudlestoids: demand gives the value, so unless ECB and saudis start demanding to save in BTC it will never be store of value

05:28:48 herbijudlestoids: im not giving my opinion here, just trying to decode the msg

05:29:11 decimation: Okay, but the question is: what will the saudis demand in the future?

05:29:28 herbijudlestoids: yesterday today and in the future the saudis have always demanded gold

05:29:46 herbijudlestoids: even in the advent of the petrodollar, under the assumption the dollars could be redeemed on the spot market for physical gold

05:31:19 herbijudlestoids: http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2010/10/its-flow-stupid.html

05:31:20 ozbot: FOFOA: It's the Flow, Stupid

05:31:30 herbijudlestoids: http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2010/10/flow-addendum.html

05:31:30 ozbot: FOFOA: Flow Addendum

05:32:12 decimation: Interesting. I must log now, but I will read through this in the future.

05:46:20 herbijudlestoids: hullo BingoBoingo :)

05:52:33 BingoBoingo: Hello herbijudlestoids

05:52:59 KRS1: Why, hello here.

05:53:37 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I am trying to get some play sports book to let a freiend who hasn't cared for long enough's funds

05:55:01 BingoBoingo: It seems like a rather futile enterprise to try, but if the Doge'ers are as brazen as they seem to be now.

06:00:00 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Have you ever given thought to the possibility the universe just might hate R and want to make a mockery of it.

06:01:31 [\]: same way tor did

06:01:42 [\]: non existant problem, basically

06:04:21 herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: nope :)

06:04:30 BingoBoingo: Before the end of February I imagine my site is going to requite a niggers.txt file

06:04:31 herbijudlestoids: i luv teh R, whats your beef?

06:04:51 herbijudlestoids: do you wanna see my new tick distribution from the last 48h? this is per 10 tick returns

06:04:56 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: That common LISP or PYthon could be less verbose.

06:05:14 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: How do yoy know I don't have better deets

06:05:17 herbijudlestoids: i can do in R in about 5 lines what takes ~100 lines in python

06:05:31 BingoBoingo: or care about moves measured in minutes or days.

06:05:47 herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: you might, i dunno, i just thought you migh tlike to see it, i pulled the data from #bitcoin-assets-trades and processed in R :)

06:06:08 herbijudlestoids: when i get more data i will do some lower resolution graphs

06:06:29 herbijudlestoids: not much point doing a daily returns distribution when youv only got 2 days

06:06:30 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I don't speak R to the computer for the same reason I don't speak Attic Greek in conversation

06:07:07 herbijudlestoids: and? whats the reason? lol

06:07:22 BingoBoingo: Ancient lights is the reason

06:09:50 BingoBoingo: Attic Greek is old enough skipping to Sabine taming Latin is reasonable. R is old enough skipping to Python is reasonable (though Ruby is never reasonable).

06:10:29 herbijudlestoids: python cannot do what i can do in R in so few lines.

06:14:27 herbijudlestoids: https://gist.github.com/sinner-/8727386

06:14:27 ozbot: gist:8727386

06:15:15 herbijudlestoids: thats a simple example BingoBoingo, how do i do line #10 in python like i do it in R?

06:15:34 herbijudlestoids: (in one line, like that)

06:16:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00090306 = 15.9842 BTC [+] {2}

06:17:52 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: line # 10 from what source?

06:18:26 herbijudlestoids: the gist i just pasted?

06:19:50 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I mean if you want letter perfect code Common LISP is the language, but in the garbage you pasted I can't say if you are protecting from garbage overloads or some shit.

06:20:07 herbijudlestoids: the thing is i know, because i used to do all my analysis in python and found R to be much quicker

06:20:19 herbijudlestoids: still code most everything else in python

06:21:05 herbijudlestoids: and my day to day job is openstack, all python

06:23:12 herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: you called my code garbage :(

06:26:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00089996 = 4.0948 BTC [-]

06:32:11 BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I said nothing about your mystery code. I called your language garbage though

06:35:38 Diablo-D3: http://www.hyperbutts.com/

06:35:38 ozbot: BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS

06:35:39 Diablo-D3: wtf

06:36:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00090577 = 4.1665 BTC [+] {3}

06:39:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20471 @ 0.00090742 = 18.5758 BTC [+] {2}

07:11:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.0009026 = 10.3799 BTC [-] {2}

07:11:29 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Just remember I am not Paleo, and I will hunt you down and cover you with flower.

07:12:32 Diablo-D3: and I will have you arrested for attempted murder and you will spend your days in prison

07:22:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6234 @ 0.00090666 = 5.6521 BTC [+] {4}

07:30:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 703 @ 0.00083097 = 0.5842 BTC [-] {5}

07:31:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00446 = 0.446 BTC [+]

07:34:11 BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: When rash ==murder maybe.

07:39:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00089996 = 2.3399 BTC [-]

08:04:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16391 @ 0.00090499 = 14.8337 BTC [+] {2}

08:14:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00090479 = 2.1715 BTC [-]

08:15:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00090356 = 11.0234 BTC [-]

08:22:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.00090788 = 0.8171 BTC [+]

09:07:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00090485 = 7.1483 BTC [-] {2}

09:13:37 KRS1: .bait

09:13:38 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/ee73effbf6d015f77c47cd03ba550ac7/tumblr_mld8f1pbJ01rp2wfyo1_500.jpg

09:13:47 KRS1: HAWT

09:16:04 BingoBoingo: Bitch wants me to insure their BTC balances though doesn't want my niggers.txt. Loser?

09:17:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6488 @ 0.00090242 = 5.8549 BTC [-]

09:27:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12553 @ 0.00090134 = 11.3145 BTC [-]

09:39:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00090597 = 21.8339 BTC [+] {3}

09:41:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00090134 = 6.039 BTC [-]

09:51:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00090605 = 6.3424 BTC [+]

09:54:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8588 @ 0.00090722 = 7.7912 BTC [+] {2}

09:55:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51509 @ 0.00090884 = 46.8134 BTC [+] {5}

09:58:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4503 @ 0.00090974 = 4.0966 BTC [+]

10:09:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12197 @ 0.00090202 = 11.0019 BTC [-]

10:28:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00090495 = 4.8867 BTC [+] {2}

10:32:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00090685 = 2.2671 BTC [+]

10:35:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00090491 = 3.5291 BTC [-]

10:42:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2485 @ 0.00090491 = 2.2487 BTC [-]

10:52:31 herbijudlestoids: heavy trading in MPOE tonight

10:52:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10365 @ 0.00090638 = 9.3946 BTC [+] {2}

11:06:45 herbijudlestoids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlGqZ-VHQVc

11:06:46 ozbot: The Curious incident of Big Poppa - The Notorious XX - Wait What - YouTube

11:16:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3985 @ 0.00091086 = 3.6298 BTC [+]

11:17:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00090134 = 9.8246 BTC [-]

11:28:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5715 @ 0.00090415 = 5.1672 BTC [+]

11:37:38 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04999994 = 0.25 BTC [+]

11:49:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9068 @ 0.00090747 = 8.2289 BTC [+] {2}

11:54:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12862 @ 0.00091238 = 11.735 BTC [+] {2}

12:10:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2591 @ 0.00091695 = 2.3758 BTC [+]

12:21:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138 @ 0.00091572 = 0.1264 BTC [-]

12:21:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.04999994 = 0.6 BTC [+]

12:27:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0056 = 0.1456 BTC [-]

12:27:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.61531686 = 7.9991 BTC [+] {7}

12:28:28 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.645 = 7.74 BTC [+] {6}

12:28:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11276 @ 0.00091504 = 10.318 BTC [-] {2}

12:30:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 100 @ 0.11253783 = 11.2538 BTC [+] {25}

12:30:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02860175 = 0.3432 BTC [-] {4}

12:32:32 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 52 @ 0.04899228 = 2.5476 BTC [-] {5}

12:32:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.0286 = 0.572 BTC [-] {3}

12:32:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00091311 = 10.1355 BTC [-]

12:33:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 75 @ 0.00577253 = 0.4329 BTC [+] {3}

12:33:35 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 4000 @ 0.00288388 = 11.5355 BTC [+] {16}

12:40:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2250 @ 0.00091437 = 2.0573 BTC [+]

12:42:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00091278 = 5.4767 BTC [-]

12:46:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00579999 = 0.29 BTC [+] {3}

12:47:47 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.04999993 = 0.65 BTC [+] {2}

12:56:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00091398 = 8.6371 BTC [+]

12:59:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] [PAID] 5.00000000 BTC to 50`000 shares, 10000 satoshi per share

13:06:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3025 @ 0.0009161 = 2.7712 BTC [+]

13:10:09 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 95 @ 0.00429 = 0.4076 BTC [+]

13:13:38 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/745/fico-will-be-elected-president-of-slovakia/

13:13:39 ozbot: BitBet - Fico will be elected President of Slovakia

13:13:44 mircea_popescu: lol check out the slovaks having fun

13:13:51 mircea_popescu: and we didn't even know the city exists!

13:15:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16519 @ 0.00091246 = 15.0729 BTC [-] {4}

13:16:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.63749999 = 2.55 BTC [-] {3}

13:19:01 jurov: city?

13:19:07 mircea_popescu: hm ?

13:19:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.64789999 = 1.2958 BTC [+] {2}

13:19:38 KRS1: https://mtgox.zendesk.com/entries/26501000-Statement-Regarding-BTC-Withdrawal-Delays

13:19:39 KRS1: 0 people found this useful

13:19:39 ozbot: Statement Regarding BTC Withdrawal Delays : Support Desk

13:20:01 jurov: <mircea_popescu> and we didn't even know the city exists! << which city you mean?

13:20:17 KRS1: I personally did not find it useful. There were not pictures of clowns or anything colorful on that pr.

13:20:19 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5124 @ 0.00090967 = 4.6611 BTC [-]

13:20:33 mircea_popescu: slovakia!

13:20:49 truffles: lol

13:20:56 mircea_popescu: KRS1 well that may have something to do with 0 people using mtgox you know.

13:21:11 KRS1: They need more clowns.

13:22:11 mircea_popescu: truffles whatcha lolling at ? here's a fun fact : Slovakia : 18,933 sq miles (49,036 km?) ; LA : 33,954 sq mi (87,490 km2)

13:22:34 mircea_popescu: just because most of their city is undeveloped doesn't mean it's not a city now :D

13:22:38 jurov: ah yes. we have a joke about this

13:23:17 jurov: fico comes to china (he likes to go there) and they ask him: how many slovaks there are?

13:23:25 jurov: "5 million"

13:23:32 mircea_popescu: wow omfg this is a romanian joke!

13:23:36 jurov: "And in which hotel do you stay?"

13:23:43 mircea_popescu: hahaah

13:23:46 truffles: i laugh with u mp

13:23:50 mircea_popescu: ok, check out the romanian variant :

13:24:21 mircea_popescu: there's this ethnic group in romania, living in Oltenia (the south west), called olteni. they have a reputation of being sorta hillbilly-ish.

13:24:42 mircea_popescu: so, one day these guys (about 2mn total) declare war to china.

13:25:08 mircea_popescu: the chinese are kind-of shocked, spend about a week trying to find large enouygh maps so this Oltenia is shiwn on them

13:25:32 mircea_popescu: eventualy they discover it's a province of Romania and not even autonomous, so they tell their ambassador at Bucharest to go on a trip to Caracal and see what in the fuck.

13:25:47 mircea_popescu: "Hello nice people. Did you send us a declaration of war ?!"

13:25:49 mircea_popescu: "Yes we did."

13:25:52 mircea_popescu: "But why ?!"

13:25:56 mircea_popescu: "None of your business"

13:26:35 mircea_popescu: "But do you realise the great nation of Han is over a billion strong ? That the US falls over itself to do whatever we tell them to ? That we can call under arms about a quarter billion people within two weeks ?"

13:26:53 mircea_popescu: at which point the local troop is taken aback and they turn around to speak among themselves

13:27:04 mircea_popescu: "Hmm... so many chinese... where the fuck do we burry them all ?!"

13:27:18 truffles: so interesting

13:27:31 jurov: heh

13:27:49 mircea_popescu: happens to be one of my favourite jokes :D

13:27:54 mircea_popescu: tho i guess it's an aquired taste.

13:28:05 mircea_popescu: but don't worry, i'll tell it again so it becomes funny.

13:28:07 mircea_popescu: here goes :

13:28:13 wao-ender: :D

13:28:14 truffles: look at u acknowledging differences

13:29:13 truffles: next ull be understanding what sarcasm is hmmm

13:29:33 chetty: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-30/visa-s-scharf-says-traditional-payment-networks-trump-bitcoin.html?cmpid=yhoo

13:29:34 KRS1: Once the 3 quarter billion chinese are armed they should take out their communist government for a shot at some freedom.

13:30:02 mircea_popescu: http://www.myfoxny.com/story/24588158/argentines-jockey-to-cope-with-economic-turmoil

13:30:09 mircea_popescu: "We don't trust anything anymore. Not even the banking institutions," Partcha said. "I had saved in dollars, and when the banks froze deposits in 2001, I got pesos back and lost my money."

13:30:21 mircea_popescu: KRS1 they really don't seem to want to.

13:30:32 mircea_popescu: they seem more inclined to take out the us socialist government.

13:30:48 mircea_popescu: chetty yeah we lolled all about it yest.

13:33:48 jurov: well, slovak (and i think other) policemen have similar problem, too

13:34:02 jurov: one comes home and wife tells him

13:34:22 jurov: honey, i have a good message

13:34:39 jurov: i'm pregnant, we'll have 5th child

13:34:50 jurov: he replies: nooooooooooooo

13:35:01 jurov: every 4th child is chinese!

13:35:04 jurov: *5th

13:35:07 mircea_popescu: ahaha

13:35:35 mircea_popescu: so i take it slovak policemen go around in pairs because one can read, one can write, too, right ?

13:35:43 jurov: yes

13:36:04 mircea_popescu: turns out the slovaks invented all teh romanian jokes :D

13:36:52 wao-ender: :D

13:36:57 wao-ender: oh, that one is fav

13:37:10 jurov: it has alternate point

13:37:17 jurov: "Because one never knows."

13:37:26 mircea_popescu: lol

13:37:36 mircea_popescu: that one doesn't gramatically work in romanian.

13:37:52 mircea_popescu: how do you say it in slovak ?

13:37:59 jurov: Jeden nikdy nevie.

13:38:06 mircea_popescu: jeden being one ?

13:38:09 jurov: yes

13:38:13 mircea_popescu: what's den ?

13:38:25 jurov: den is day but that's unrelated

13:38:36 mircea_popescu: how do you say "i drink" ?

13:38:47 jurov: ja pijem

13:38:55 mircea_popescu: how do you say "she drinks me" ?

13:39:11 truffles: 0.0

13:39:20 mircea_popescu: what, it's a transitive verb.

13:39:21 jurov: depends

13:39:24 jurov: ona ma pije

13:39:37 mircea_popescu: haha. depends. ok, how do you say "she drinks my drink" ?

13:39:39 jurov: but if you were to say she goes on my nerves, then

13:39:53 jurov: ona mi pije krv

13:40:07 jurov: she is drinking my blood

13:40:36 mircea_popescu: ja ma mi, so jenen is in fact "one". romanian doesn't have it. there's cineva = somebody, but there's no "one" as an impersonal Is person.

13:41:12 jurov: it's any impersonal person, not just 1st

13:41:39 mircea_popescu: myeah.

13:42:28 mircea_popescu: jeden nikdy nevie = nu se stie niciodata. a sti, to know, se stie is roughly the subjonctive. so the function is done by the verb rather than by a pronoun.

13:43:00 Neil: subjonctive: Is that franglais or sthg?

13:43:19 mircea_popescu: it's a mood, comes from latin

13:43:21 Neil: Cross between subjonctif and subjunctive. :)

13:43:30 mircea_popescu: english has it, very a ok, subjunctive then.

13:43:46 Neil: If I were you etc. not if I was you

13:44:04 truffles: if i was yous

13:44:05 Neil: Much more prevalent in French than English

13:44:05 mircea_popescu: yeah. english has it but it's mostly... unknown so to speak.

13:44:39 KRS1: instead of learning slovakian, might want to start learning chinese

13:44:51 truffles: or english :D

13:44:51 mircea_popescu: i've yet to meet a sexy chinese woman.

13:44:58 KRS1: wut

13:45:01 mircea_popescu: srs.

13:45:07 KRS1: I have one for you, then tell me.

13:45:13 Neil: mircea_popescu: Dude.

13:45:18 mircea_popescu: what can i tell you!

13:45:30 truffles: millions of chinese, not one hot hmm

13:45:30 KRS1: Mayne she's not 100% chinese, I shall summon her.

13:45:31 mircea_popescu: i don't go for the entire "hello my face is a pancake" thing

13:45:40 KRS1: HAHA

13:45:49 jurov: KRS1: i agree, though, you can talk russian at suprising number of places

13:45:57 Neil: pancake? I think you have the wrong nationality

13:46:03 mircea_popescu: jurov the structure seems pretty russian really.

13:46:21 truffles: ignorance is bliss

13:46:54 mircea_popescu: neil compare and contrast : http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02650/xian_2650754b.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z1At_HUDfFI/UAYQ0yqTDuI/AAAAAAAAA2E/eKX426QljfU/s400/Tea_Leoni%2BJune_2005.jpg

13:47:12 Neil: Wow how tf did you pull that up in 10 secs

13:47:29 mircea_popescu: i have ppls working for me,

13:47:34 mircea_popescu: and i make them do the stupidest shit

13:47:35 truffles: lol

13:47:51 truffles: sweet life

13:48:03 mircea_popescu: i think entire retirements will consist of strictly cataloguing the insanity that went on back in this day.

13:48:32 Neil: Koreans have noticeably "flat" faces but not Chinese. I've met plenty hot Chinese women and I live in Japan. Maybe you should move to Asia :)

13:48:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8140 @ 0.00091695 = 7.464 BTC [+]

13:48:54 mircea_popescu: well sure. i don't propose the chinese are racially ugly.

13:49:03 mircea_popescu: i'm just sayin', ive not met the good ones.

13:49:54 KRS1: mircea_popescu: I feel the same way you do on that. The bitch in this video is an exception I think.

13:50:05 KRS1: Behold, your chinese dream woman.

13:50:06 KRS1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vldh7oQD-a4

13:50:07 ozbot: George Michael - I Want Your Sex (Stereo Version) - YouTube

13:50:14 KRS1: 3:15 ftw

13:50:36 truffles: good song!

13:51:06 mircea_popescu: "This video contains content from VEVO. It is restricted from playback on certain sites."

13:51:08 Neil: Some Chinese gals are really good fun. Don't take life too seriously.

13:51:10 KRS1: f'n a truffles.. He killed it in the 80's with that album, and other hits.

13:51:12 mircea_popescu: see, vevo ruins my sex prospects.

13:51:19 truffles: yea

13:51:29 mircea_popescu: anyway, lunch. love you all.

13:51:35 truffles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3AP26ywQsQ

13:51:35 ozbot: George Michael - I Want Your Sex - YouTube

13:51:36 ThickAsThieves: i dont think that girl is chinese

13:51:36 KRS1: <3

13:51:56 KRS1: ThickAsThieves, I was wondering..maybe she's a jap. I can never tell the difference with those people.

13:52:21 pankkake: well, there's a difference. chinese=ugly, japanese=beautiful

13:52:37 Neil: 80% of time Japanese / Chinese difference is clear. The 20% is a bitch.

13:52:37 pankkake: koreans in between

13:52:38 truffles: 0,0

13:52:40 KRS1: pankkake: hmm..interesting. I need to look into this.

13:53:01 pankkake: of course I'm trolly with the ugly/beautiful, but there is a certain truth to it :)

13:53:11 Neil: It's obvious 1 second after they start talking :)

13:53:34 truffles: which one is plastic surgery central

13:53:39 pankkake: korea

13:53:44 truffles: right

13:54:40 truffles: i couldnt tell if woman was chinese, id lean towards no

13:56:38 Neil: Since when was Antonopoulos pronounced Antonopolis?

13:56:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3382 @ 0.00008885 = 0.3005 BTC [+] {2}

14:00:23 ThickAsThieves: she's Chinese!

14:00:24 ThickAsThieves: http://www.fanpix.net/gallery/kathy-jeung-pictures.htm

14:01:12 truffles: pity the lemmings couldnt google hot chinese :D

14:01:32 ThickAsThieves: althought i do find her weird looking

14:01:37 ThickAsThieves: although*

14:01:48 ThickAsThieves: elongated face

14:03:22 nubbins`: hi

14:03:39 Mats_cd03: .bait

14:03:40 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m80ezfEgEb1rbt81ko1_500.jpg

14:04:05 Mats_cd03: .bait

14:04:06 ozbot: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9aio86YYf1qzqz2xo1_500.jpg

14:12:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00091661 = 10.0827 BTC [-]

14:23:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.0043 = 0.1075 BTC [+]

14:25:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00275146 = 0.1376 BTC [-] {5}

14:26:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.6145005 = 1.229 BTC [-] {2}

14:32:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 56 @ 0.00415133 = 0.2325 BTC [-] {4}

14:40:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11017 @ 0.00092029 = 10.1388 BTC [+] {2}

14:51:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00588415 = 1.1768 BTC [+] {9}

14:55:59 mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/AH4tzPc.gif

14:56:39 Duffer1: bitcointalk.org when MPOE-PR isn't around?

14:56:53 jborkl: Mircea_popescu, Romania still frozen over?

14:56:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61050001 BTC [-]

14:57:16 mircea_popescu: jborkl it never was ? got a light coat, mebbe two inches

14:57:21 mircea_popescu: Duffer1 lol

14:57:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6105 BTC [-]

14:58:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61020507 BTC [-]

14:58:57 jborkl: Oh , the news said Romania was in a deep freeze stopping the whole country

14:59:03 jborkl: Typical news eh

14:59:58 mircea_popescu: i can take a shot out the window if you want, but basically it just snowed enough to be cute

15:00:09 mircea_popescu: then again, im in the part of romania where the fig tree grows wild.

15:00:23 ThickAsThieves: must be reporters from Atlanta

15:00:41 mircea_popescu: they probably had some snow around the carpathians bend, but hey.

15:00:45 mircea_popescu: they do every year.

15:01:04 mircea_popescu: once i fell with my car into the snow, had to have it pulled out my a military truck

15:01:14 devthedev: Hey mircea_popescu

15:01:54 mircea_popescu: ello

15:02:07 jborkl: I figured the news was wrong again, just interested to see how wrong :)

15:02:47 mircea_popescu: gotta "make it newsworthy" huh. the conspiracy of government and press.

15:04:07 devthedev: Nice to finally meet you mircea_popescu :P

15:04:17 mircea_popescu: haha cool.

15:04:26 jborkl: Yeah, Romania had 1 inch of snow doesn't have the same rung

15:04:34 jborkl: Ring

15:04:45 devthedev: I avoid the snow, I live in FL. lol

15:06:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 16621 @ 0.0000907 = 1.5075 BTC [+] {7}

15:06:35 mircea_popescu: During the Spanish colonization of the Americas, the giant anteater was one of many native fauna taken to Europe for display. At first, Europeans believed all anteaters were female and mated with their noses.

15:06:42 mircea_popescu: there is nothing common about common sense.

15:11:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.07500001 = 0.75 BTC [-] {3}

15:11:16 lippoper: ozbot!!

15:11:17 lippoper: .bait

15:13:10 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00091661 = 1.7416 BTC [-]

15:13:15 ThickAsThieves: .d

15:13:15 ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 858 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6964% in 5d 3h 21m 44s

15:13:25 ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate

15:13:26 gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 2495218979.32 based on data since last change | 2588184152.17 based on data for last three days

15:15:07 mircea_popescu: apparently slovakia has a "Ordinary People and Independent Personalities" party.

15:15:18 mircea_popescu: that thing would so rock in the us...

15:15:44 mircea_popescu: everyone's an ordinary peopl and independent personality there.

15:16:01 jurov: oh, in every elections there's such crazy party

15:16:11 jurov: we had "Alliance of New Citizen"

15:17:28 jurov: "Party of Citizens' mutual understanding"

15:17:36 jurov: Freedom and Solidarity"

15:17:59 jurov: each of these actually got few MPs

15:18:18 mircea_popescu: what does it take for a mp seat, like 50k votes ?

15:18:39 jurov: yes, 5% of whatever many people come to vote

15:18:50 mircea_popescu: whoa

15:18:53 mircea_popescu: so like 12k ?

15:19:13 jurov: maybe

15:19:21 mircea_popescu: so start a faucet, become an mp.

15:19:31 jurov: even Fico's party is called "Direction - Social Democracy"

15:19:33 Azelphur: hahaha mp on bitcoin foundation

15:19:35 Azelphur: I'd vote for that

15:19:38 mircea_popescu: im not even kidding jurov. you absolutely should think seriously about it.

15:20:00 mircea_popescu: Slovak Bitcoin Party.

15:20:06 jurov: yes, i did think, easy way to get immunity from law

15:20:13 mircea_popescu: that's not even it.

15:20:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00091216 = 2.554 BTC [-]

15:20:18 jurov: if the time comes...

15:20:29 mircea_popescu: easy way to be fucking sensible, to counterbalance all the idiots speaking for bitcoin as if they had a clue

15:20:36 mircea_popescu: don't wait for "the time to come".

15:20:48 mircea_popescu: you got four years till the next elections and more dough than any other candidate.

15:20:49 jurov: wao-ender: ^^ do you read this?

15:21:07 mircea_popescu: you're ideally placed, make your move.

15:21:21 wao-ender: vot

15:21:26 jurov: the problem is, it's very hard to get activists with half a brain here

15:21:36 mircea_popescu: so get activists with a full brain.

15:21:43 wao-ender: hmm

15:21:52 mircea_popescu: what do you do this summer ?

15:21:57 mircea_popescu: tour the fucking city, talk to everyone.

15:22:14 mircea_popescu: you can bloody well walk all of slovenia in a summer.

15:22:16 jurov: i was involved in support of disabled people .. never again

15:22:30 mircea_popescu: forget "being involved". do. as in, for yourself, properly.

15:23:01 jurov: that was for myself, too. the stupidity was the problem

15:23:15 wao-ender: so, we are going setup party?

15:23:18 wao-ender: 4 yo is plenty of time

15:23:18 mircea_popescu: this is definitely the best opportunity for anything like that you'll have

15:23:26 mircea_popescu: bitcoin appeals to intelligent, young, educated people.

15:23:35 wao-ender: ^ ^ ^ yes.

15:23:42 jurov: nah, they went out long ago

15:23:48 mircea_popescu: hit it before some other fuckwit piggybacks on the name without any credential or a clue.

15:24:12 wao-ender: but, our market is well timed for that, in Czech, there are people try be supportive for Pirate parties..

15:24:12 jurov: everythin *will* end up on my back

15:24:16 wao-ender: bitcoin party is just one step ahead

15:24:35 mircea_popescu: because by 2018 it will be all "hello I'm Herp McDerp, I have 0.059876 btc in a webwallet, let me tell you all about Bitcoin"

15:24:42 wao-ender: :D

15:24:42 jurov: wao-ender: you know what crakpots attend progressbar

15:24:52 wao-ender: jurov: right, we rejected them

15:24:53 jurov: you'd have to deal with them

15:25:09 jurov: even rejection is dealing

15:25:17 wao-ender: they want used us in their politics program, like setup first PR at our space, tricksters.

15:26:03 mircea_popescu: wao-ender just negotiate with people. "o, you want to use us ? fine, but you must be naked while doing it" "o, you don't want to do naked pr ? ok, what else can you offer"

15:26:07 mircea_popescu: soon enough people come into line.

15:26:17 wao-ender: :D

15:26:24 wao-ender: yeah, that's how I selling bitcoins

15:26:27 mircea_popescu: lol

15:26:45 wao-ender: I just setup high price, when one is in the emergency, it will sell somehow..

15:27:16 jurov: there the situation is clear

15:27:27 jurov: but in politics, someone often comes to help

15:27:35 jurov: and them messes everything beyond repair

15:27:41 wao-ender: mircea_popescu: but, I will think about it, politics in our countyr will be open for new parties in year or next year after

15:27:53 mircea_popescu: so don't give them access to anything that's more dangerous than they're trustworthy.

15:28:07 wao-ender: mircea_popescu: because that Fico's party (SMER-SD) will loose it's managment when he moves to the president position afaik

15:28:16 mircea_popescu: wao-ender nothing comes of those who think about things, in my experience.

15:28:36 jurov: wao-ender: if you do know such trustworthy people, then i'll think about it

15:28:46 jurov: because i don't except for you

15:28:54 wao-ender: .. when I knew, he is second time premier, I knew best exit from politics is to be just two times president in a row.

15:29:11 mircea_popescu: or more properly said : you gotta think from the perspective "i am doing this, let me think how" rather than from the perspective "let me think if i will do this"

15:29:17 mircea_popescu: that latter approach never goes anywhere.

15:29:57 wao-ender: jurov: when this aim will be announced, I think some new comers will reveal from other circles

15:30:18 jurov: yes, that's what i'm talking about

15:30:37 jurov: what do you do with them? you can't give them any responsibility

15:31:10 mircea_popescu: you always can give someone responsibility. just tailor it.

15:31:13 wao-ender: oh, you need treat them like they are special in some way, in positive sense

15:31:26 mircea_popescu: make them copy down your party programme by hand for a week.

15:31:27 jurov: fuck i could have been a star of hearing disability HGO, run for MP, etc. I really was in national TV 2 times.

15:31:29 mircea_popescu: that's a responsibility.

15:31:40 jurov: *NGO

15:31:44 wao-ender: and not giving them full permissions, just little of them. They will just show you how they can manage responsibility with that little permissions

15:31:49 mircea_popescu: ^

15:31:54 mircea_popescu: exactly like computers work.

15:32:07 jurov: then i found I dont; really have any support, just backstabbing

15:32:15 mircea_popescu: you're too emotional.

15:32:25 jurov: yes i know

15:32:26 mircea_popescu: who cares about all teh goats in the world.

15:32:36 wao-ender: and yes, you need to be cold, w/o any emotions at all.

15:33:36 jurov: often i imagine myself in a public dispute

15:33:55 jurov: only to realize i'd seriously offend most people involved

15:33:59 mircea_popescu: so ?

15:34:02 jurov: i like to speak too straight

15:34:20 wao-ender: oh, diplomatic speech is just all about training and clever words

15:34:23 jurov: *too emotional

15:34:48 mircea_popescu: just as long as you have a point, offending idiots is actually a net positive for you.

15:34:56 mircea_popescu: offend away.

15:35:10 wao-ender: but well, I'm marked as master troll in my circles, is that great way to start?

15:35:19 jurov: there are *all* idiots then... usually almost nobody gets my point

15:35:35 mircea_popescu: then your point needs working on, or perhaps the expression thereof.

15:36:18 mircea_popescu: jurov just consider this : for all you know i could be deaf and mute. i've never bothered to prop up whatever dumbass conferences they do, where various nobodies gather to pat each other's backs. i still dominate the field. how come ?

15:36:21 mircea_popescu: apparently this can be done.

15:36:36 mircea_popescu: way the fuck easier to do in a small country with a coherent culture, too.

15:36:55 mircea_popescu: just identify your target, tailor your message so it may understood and let it rip.

15:37:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5817 @ 0.00091216 = 5.306 BTC [-]

15:37:40 wao-ender: it's all about smart moves, not about PR. PR is for me just horizontal voice/notion about person

15:38:03 wao-ender: ah and yes, that's how social engineering works

15:38:20 jurov: it needs to be something that forces me to overcome my bad experience with leading people/explaining things to them

15:38:22 wao-ender: in last years, there are also some well paid marketers called "growth hackers" who are doing this fine :)

15:38:53 mircea_popescu: jurov who the fuck cares about your bad experiences.

15:39:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6823 @ 0.00091213 = 6.2235 BTC [-] {2}

15:39:47 jurov: *shrug*

15:39:58 mircea_popescu: yeah well see ? you can't become prisoner of your own bad experiences.

15:40:08 mircea_popescu: way too easy for others to hack you into inactivity, just by controlling that part.

15:40:14 mircea_popescu: you gotta be above it to be an independent agent.

15:40:51 mircea_popescu: obviously, easier said than done. but still.

15:41:07 wao-ender: Oh one thing, to be successful, you just need to be not negative, or passive agressive to someone.. that really sells your person

15:42:29 wao-ender: I just readed y'day mpoe-pr aproach to that strip bb, and other members was there like barking wolfes on her. I didnt expect that, well

15:42:39 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.04999993 = 0.75 BTC [+] {2}

15:42:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5285 @ 0.00091077 = 4.8134 BTC [-] {2}

15:44:19 jurov: all in all, what reward is there in trying to drag this nation into 21st century?

15:44:35 jurov: even fags abhor politicians on top of that

15:44:39 mircea_popescu: no, reward is there in you expressing yourself, and expressing this thing you believe in.

15:44:55 mircea_popescu: correctly.

15:45:00 wao-ender: Well, maybe I have propositions to do this at all

15:46:33 jurov: oh, i'm pretty undecided

15:46:48 wao-ender: wov

15:46:54 wao-ender: even in romanian wiki is there article about him

15:46:55 wao-ender: http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matia_Corvin

15:46:56 ozbot: Matia Corvin - Wikipedia

15:47:06 mircea_popescu: ya well, don't let too many opportunities pass you by while you're undecided, or else you'll end up old and bitter.

15:47:08 wao-ender: He even renamed Bratislava to Istropolis

15:47:15 mircea_popescu: wao-ender the guy is romanian you know.

15:47:30 mircea_popescu: born same city i was.

15:48:41 wao-ender: Oh, nice. I like his way, how he made it. When he was at top of kingdom, he turn on economic and culture bloom

15:48:49 wao-ender: One of my fav from history

15:48:58 mircea_popescu: not bad.

15:49:41 jurov: I like Tomas Bata. And he would not be able to do what he did from politics.

15:49:59 wao-ender: Bata was decades later, yes

15:50:08 wao-ender: We're kinda famous for him

15:50:14 wao-ender: like Bata's prices, .99c

15:50:31 wao-ender: but he was kinda emperor that times

15:50:32 wao-ender: :D

15:51:00 jurov: heh.. did you know he made an office in the elevator so that his employees would not waste time coimg nd going to him?

15:51:10 jurov: that building still stands in partizanske

15:51:21 mike_c: anybody know why some log lines show up blank?

15:51:26 wao-ender: yeah, and he had office at each floor, afaik

15:51:27 mike_c: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2014#469060

15:51:30 ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log

15:51:40 mircea_popescu: mike_c because assbot chokes on some special chars and kako does not want to fix it already!

15:51:46 mike_c: ah

15:51:47 mircea_popescu: just do a ereg replace yo!

15:51:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21282 @ 0.00090917 = 19.349 BTC [-] {3}

15:51:54 jurov: yes, kako fails unicode

15:52:11 wao-ender: but back to Corvin, he made something really revolutionary. He brings University into Bratislava

15:52:21 wao-ender: Istropolitana was one of first in Europe, right?

15:53:00 wao-ender: btw, our hackerspace is near of Istropolitana :P ( Universitas Istropolitana )

15:53:51 wao-ender: ahm just first in Slovakia, whatever, :sad:

15:53:57 wao-ender: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universitas_Istropolitana

15:53:57 ozbot: Universitas Istropolitana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15:53:58 mircea_popescu: you know, the first european universities are in the 1200s

15:54:11 mircea_popescu: even the ottomans had one before 1500

15:54:50 wao-ender: yeah, I reading now about that, fixint my memories

15:56:00 wao-ender: heh, really huge battlefiedl for that times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_wars_of_Matthias_Corvinus_of_Hungary_(1458-1490).png

15:56:29 kakobrekla: jurov wrong, unicode fails kako

15:56:40 mike_c: ۞ so, like, this line should be off the record.

15:56:44 mircea_popescu: no but srsly, just filter unknown chars out rather than drop the line

15:57:00 mircea_popescu: mike_c in 99% cases it's bullshit curly quotes that do it.

15:57:01 mike_c: damn, didn't work

15:57:21 kakobrekla: assbot can read chinese

15:57:28 kakobrekla: i dont give a fuck for your phuny chars

15:57:55 mike_c: “ off the record? “

15:58:02 kakobrekla: see

15:58:03 mike_c: grr

15:58:05 kakobrekla: you cant even broke it

15:58:11 kakobrekla: brake

15:58:15 kakobrekla: brb coffee.

15:58:28 mircea_popescu: If the choice for regulators is to permit money laundering on the one hand, or to permit innovation on the other, we are always going to choose squelching the money laundering first, Lawsky said at the hearing.

15:58:32 mircea_popescu: ?If the choice for regulators is to permit money laundering on the one hand, or to permit innovation on the other, we are always going to choose squelching the money laundering first,? Lawsky said at the hearing.

15:59:29 mircea_popescu: that statement is fundamentally "we're stupid, ignore us please".

15:59:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] [PAID] 13.00000000 BTC to 40`000 shares, 32500 satoshi per share

15:59:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00090386 = 6.1462 BTC [-]

15:59:59 mike_c: dang, i forgot to apply for my innovation permit.

16:00:18 kakobrekla: the second line didnt make it to logs

16:00:26 kakobrekla: mircea is a natural

16:01:49 mircea_popescu: no, i just know what to use

16:02:01 mike_c: i think it depends on irc client. i don't think my client could even send anything that would break it.

16:02:03 mircea_popescu: it takes a retarded ny bureaucrat to generate the real good kludge

16:02:26 kakobrekla: well irc endocings are bullshit

16:02:30 kakobrekla: blarg

16:02:32 kakobrekla: encodings

16:02:36 mircea_popescu: lol kakotype.

16:02:59 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1480 @ 0.00009146 = 0.1354 BTC [+]

16:03:03 mircea_popescu: mike_c how do you see ? or ? ?

16:03:05 kakobrekla: cutn spell cunt tpye

16:03:07 mircea_popescu: bad ms curlyquotes.

16:03:09 mike_c: blank and blank

16:03:30 mircea_popescu: https://www.google.com/search?q=%E2%80%9C&complete=0 for the lolz.

16:03:51 kakobrekla: broke google.

16:04:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.00009191 = 0.2757 BTC [+] {4}

16:04:05 mircea_popescu: anyway, it's the E2809C/E2809D stuff

16:04:23 mike_c: “ copy and paste ftw “

16:04:29 mike_c: damn, see, my client converts it

16:04:39 mircea_popescu: lol

16:04:52 mircea_popescu: well yeah, cause you're running some noob sort of software that thinks it knows what you mean

16:04:57 mike_c: yes

16:05:04 mircea_popescu: which... great for the retail market, tbh.

16:05:26 kakobrekla: but here and now, we like total control so we can break srtuff.

16:05:31 kakobrekla: stuff

16:05:43 mircea_popescu: don't opress my hacking!

16:06:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.0029212 = 0.1577 BTC [+]

16:07:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.606 = 3.03 BTC [-] {2}

16:08:04 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60002001 BTC [-]

16:08:08 pankkake: http://i.imgur.com/WJPzZOE.png and yet, it's irssi, just expecting UTF-8. hm, make it's screen's fault

16:08:59 jurov: likewise, i saw just boxes with STS and CCM in them

16:09:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.602 = 1.806 BTC [+] {2}

16:09:09 jurov: not in the dejavu font, i guess

16:09:19 deadweasel: irssi, http://i.imgur.com/n2ACa46.png

16:09:44 deadweasel: can't you just set term to utf-8

16:09:53 pankkake: screen has a bug and can't handle utf-8 with too many bytes

16:10:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00090386 = 6.3722 BTC [-]

16:10:11 jurov: what about tmux?

16:10:29 pankkake: tmux doesn't have that issue, nor do latest screen git

16:10:37 kakobrekla: re how do you see http://shrani.si/f/1f/Ky/3jgnsftR/howdoyousee.png

16:11:14 deadweasel: what's that font?

16:11:22 kakobrekla: dunno

16:11:25 kakobrekla: Font 1

16:11:33 deadweasel: "/set font 1

16:11:36 deadweasel: damn

16:11:47 kakobrekla: settings sez Consolas 12

16:12:03 deadweasel: nice, thx, i'm gonna try it for a bit.

16:12:37 deadweasel: oooooh, curvy, sexy letters

16:13:11 kakobrekla: :)

16:14:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.04999994 = 0.3 BTC [+]

16:14:46 mircea_popescu: lmao he's using irc in comic ms

16:14:54 lippoper: http://31.media.tumblr.com/54175bb847860b25d6424eb31fc34cf2/tumblr_mfnhriiDvE1r600xqo1_500.jpg

16:15:00 kakobrekla: who?

16:15:04 mircea_popescu: you.

16:15:16 kakobrekla: sure

16:15:39 kakobrekla: nubbins is on my and i havent banned him.

16:15:47 kakobrekla: my = nac

16:15:48 kakobrekla: mac

16:15:49 kakobrekla: fuck.

16:16:14 pankkake: what about Microsoft Chat?

16:16:21 kakobrekla: doesnt have that font.

16:16:32 pankkake: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/62/MsComicChat.png

16:18:08 kakobrekla: hm?

16:18:19 kakobrekla: it there some nigger joke in there?

16:20:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 1100 @ 0.00596699 = 6.5637 BTC [-]

16:20:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.0009019 = 5.682 BTC [-]

16:21:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 813 @ 0.0009019 = 0.7332 BTC [-]

16:22:46 lippoper: I see it like this

16:22:48 lippoper: (11:03:11 AM) mircea_popescu: mike_c how do you see ? or ? ?

16:22:58 lippoper: yes, ? marks

16:24:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5225 @ 0.00009199 = 0.4806 BTC [+]

16:25:13 mircea_popescu: so on the good news front, eulora has all the skill / levelling / training stuff working and i'm quite happy with the system we use.

16:25:18 mircea_popescu: in fact, i'd say it kicks all ass.

16:25:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3007 @ 0.000092 = 0.2766 BTC [+] {2}

16:25:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00089922 = 8.093 BTC [-] {3}

16:25:31 mircea_popescu: hopefully sometime next week a crafting v0.4 is out.

16:26:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 52 @ 0.00596699 = 0.3103 BTC [-]

16:26:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 13500 @ 0.00009299 = 1.2554 BTC [+]

16:28:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 40 @ 0.005 = 0.2 BTC

16:29:19 benkay: asciilifeform: i'd like to read your proof that the us hedge funds are all little madoffs

16:29:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3761 @ 0.0000949 = 0.3569 BTC [+]

16:29:37 benkay: !l m s.mg

16:29:37 assbot: Last trade for S.MG on MPEX was at 0.000138 BTC [+]

16:29:43 benkay: !l m s.nsa

16:29:43 assbot: Last trade for S.NSA on MPEX was at 0.00017 BTC [+]

16:30:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4700 @ 0.000095 = 0.4465 BTC [+]

16:31:50 mike_c: any plans on updating git?

16:32:01 mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah.

16:32:30 mircea_popescu: someone else wanted to do a platform compile, or actually i think multiple people.

16:33:11 mike_c: yeah, cross-compiling early is usually a good idea. especially when you get other people to do it.

16:33:22 mircea_popescu: indeed.

16:34:38 pankkake: so it's git? in my mind it was svn

16:35:06 mircea_popescu: im clueless so i just use these to mean the same thing.

16:35:15 mircea_popescu: in my mind he just asked me if compilable code is to be published

16:36:16 mike_c: they are on github

16:37:01 mike_c: https://github.com/Chettie/Eulora-client

16:37:39 mircea_popescu: https://sharedcoin.com/

16:37:40 ozbot: Shared Coin - Free Trustless Bitcoin Mixing

16:37:47 mircea_popescu: seems piuk made a something.

16:39:09 mircea_popescu: course as described the model's got nothing on bitbet, but hey.

16:40:05 benkay: bitbet as mixer

16:40:06 benkay: wow

16:41:52 mircea_popescu: d'oh ?

16:42:35 benkay: things are never apparent to me mp

16:42:39 benkay: words of one syllable etc

16:43:16 mircea_popescu: since you can by design make zero-delta bets, and since the fee is 1%... bitbet is partly the reason why mixer services sort-of died last year, i'd guess.

16:45:41 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.0000951 = 0.4755 BTC [+]

16:49:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00089897 = 16.7658 BTC [-] {2}

16:53:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.58347561 = 23.339 BTC [-] {8}

16:57:53 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13149997 BTC [+]

16:57:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 100 @ 0.24310363 = 24.3104 BTC

16:57:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.61499997 = 2.46 BTC [+]

16:58:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61499999 BTC [+]

16:58:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8205 @ 0.00090213 = 7.402 BTC [+] {2}

16:59:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 62 @ 0.04790151 = 2.9699 BTC [+] {8}

17:00:31 ThickAsThieves: ;;tslb

17:00:36 gribble: Time since last block: 5 minutes and 26 seconds

17:00:42 mircea_popescu: .d

17:00:42 ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 847 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6058% in 5d 1h 51m 59s

17:00:47 mike_c: i'm excited. my robot is coming soon.

17:00:49 mike_c: https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/583/808/54cf94358caafe380451e77f05694191_large.JPG?1391181969

17:00:53 mircea_popescu: what's it do ?

17:00:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.04999997 = 0.25 BTC [+]

17:01:10 mike_c: whatever i tell it to! raspberry pi driven. has camera, distance sensor.

17:01:43 mircea_popescu: aha

17:01:56 mircea_popescu: and what, carry stuff up to 2 oz ?

17:02:10 mike_c: carrying stuff will not be its forte.

17:02:31 mircea_popescu: push buttons ?

17:03:36 mike_c: hm. vimeo is choking. i think this the link:

17:03:38 mike_c: http://vimeo.com/85309981

17:05:11 ozbot: RAPIRO: The cool robot you always wanted as a kid on Vimeo

17:06:01 Duffer1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQynsVZx5Pk

17:06:02 ozbot: RAPIRO: The cool robot you always wanted as a kid - YouTube

17:06:02 benkay: i just want a robot that follows me to the grocery store and back

17:06:18 benkay: 4 wheels would be sufficient, but 1 would be more impressive

17:06:41 KRS1: how about a realdoll robot with nice legs

17:07:53 KRS1: who can run 60 mph and still romance you with a delicious dinner

17:08:14 KRS1: and at your command go fuck up a group of thugs who insulted yo mama

17:08:30 mircea_popescu: so some kid in sierra leone hacks into it and it dropkicks you to oblivion ?

17:08:38 KRS1: uhhhh..heh.

17:09:19 lippoper: this looks so clean http://31.media.tumblr.com/862967f8c3629b6d53aaa1c77ffd2ea7/tumblr_mf5d8rpJeP1rkz0rco1_1280.jpg

17:09:39 KRS1: hey I know her

17:12:55 KRS1: http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/sexy-girls-in-short-shorts-4.jpg?w=500&h=750

17:18:50 mircea_popescu: wao-ender http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_Matia_din_Cluj btw.

17:20:53 wao-ender: 23.2. will have his bday

17:21:16 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 16 @ 0.02751006 = 0.4402 BTC [-] {3}

17:21:20 wao-ender: but well, I think you have lot of interesting things there to know

17:21:36 wao-ender: I have on my plan that way to stop at Nikola Teslas museum as well

17:22:14 jurov: there's one in Romania?

17:22:17 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 122 @ 0.02712507 = 3.3093 BTC [-] {10}

17:22:22 jurov: i was in the Belgrade one

17:23:49 mircea_popescu: i was in the belgrade one too

17:23:58 mircea_popescu: wasn't really all that much... more the name than anything

17:24:46 jurov: yes, only a small house

17:25:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.0027658 = 1.3829 BTC [-] {14}

17:25:28 jurov: they ran a film document, one tesla coil with live demonstration and few artifacts

17:27:22 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.62499899 = 1.875 BTC [+] {2}

17:29:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 160 @ 0.00292525 = 0.468 BTC [+] {7}

17:42:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17 BTC

17:43:56 benkay: b.mine

17:44:00 benkay: valentines day scams

17:46:42 ThickAsThieves: idea: mobile ASIC mine that leeches on Tesla charging stations

17:47:29 mircea_popescu: ahahahaa

17:47:34 mircea_popescu: you could have a modified tesla.

17:47:41 jurov: lol we had similar idea to hook them to trolleybuses here

17:47:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15390 @ 0.00091192 = 14.0344 BTC [+] {2}

17:47:42 mircea_popescu: hash'n'crash

17:48:08 ThickAsThieves: it could even hash while you drive to the next one

17:48:33 deadweasel: have to pause it to get up hills tho

17:48:56 ThickAsThieves: free heating too

17:49:04 mircea_popescu: pity tesla doesn't do RVs

17:49:16 the20year: yeah

17:49:23 the20year: Im curious to see about this new car of theirs

17:49:28 jurov: tesla does log energy usage, they'd discover any major leeching

17:49:35 mircea_popescu: you could solve the retirement problem. just give everyone a tesla rv with hashing gear.

17:49:47 jurov: on the other hand, old trams.trolleybuses do not

17:49:57 mircea_popescu: jurov yeah they do. at the feed station.

17:50:08 mircea_popescu: that's basically how they know if a line is down

17:50:44 jurov: yes, but's much less detailed

17:51:36 jurov: if tesla car consistently reports 20% shorter battery life, that's fishy

17:52:00 mircea_popescu: im curious who's the first person to have an exploded tesla battery/chemical fire

17:52:03 mircea_popescu: and sue them.

17:53:09 ThickAsThieves: coinbase has not sent out my bitcoins after 3 hours...

17:53:41 ThickAsThieves: guess they need to wait for price to fall a bit more

17:54:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 34 @ 0.00438 = 0.1489 BTC [-] {2}

17:55:31 mircea_popescu: $depth X.eur

17:55:32 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR Bids: ['1200 @ 0.00166251', '4200 @ 0.0016245', '100 @ 0.00153846', '1000 @ 0.001', '100000 @ 0.0009945']

17:55:33 mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['1200 @ 0.00168772', '2200 @ 0.001773', '1350 @ 0.0019975']

17:55:54 mircea_popescu: has it been dropping ?

17:56:21 jurov: no, getting sideways

17:56:31 ThickAsThieves: less than 1% since i initiated

17:56:42 ThickAsThieves: but still, it's bitcoin, why do i have to wait

17:56:56 ThickAsThieves: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/tsa-screener-confession-102912.html

17:56:56 ozbot: TSA Agent Confession - POLITICO Magazine

17:57:07 ThickAsThieves: "Dear America, I Saw You Naked

17:57:07 ThickAsThieves: And yes, we were laughing. Confessions of an ex-TSA agent."

17:57:10 jurov: http://live.coinbr.com/?mpsic=X.EUR , switch to month

17:57:39 mircea_popescu: aha

17:57:56 mircea_popescu: abstract arts.

17:58:18 mircea_popescu: but nice narrowing

17:59:54 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 0.24986506 BTC to 218 shares, 114617 satoshi per share

18:00:45 ThickAsThieves: "I was even required to confiscate nail clippers from airline pilots—the implied logic being that pilots could use the nail clippers to hijack the very planes they were flying."

18:01:43 ThickAsThieves: "In private, most TSA officers I talked to told me they felt the agency’s day-to-day operations represented an abuse of public trust and funds."

18:01:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34050 @ 0.00091812 = 31.262 BTC [+] {3}

18:03:15 mircea_popescu: this is unlike any bureaucrat ever working for any bureaucy in any government in any country ever ?

18:03:25 mircea_popescu: ask anyone, from the post office to whatever you wish.

18:04:07 ThickAsThieves: "At the conclusion of our crash course, one of the officers in our class asked him to tell us, off the record, what he really thought about the machines. 'They’re shit,' he said"

18:04:12 mircea_popescu: "It was just a temporary thing, I told myself?side income for a year or two as I worked toward a degree in creative writing. It wasn?t like a recession would come along and lock me into the job or anything." i wonder how many losers currently are hiding this from themselves with the pretense to "creative writing" aspirations.

18:04:15 ThickAsThieves: (Rapiscan)

18:05:50 ThickAsThieves: "I.O. room duty quickly devolved into an unofficial break. It was the one place in the airport free of surveillance cameras"

18:07:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 15 @ 0.027 = 0.405 BTC [-]

18:07:02 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.44 BTC [+]

18:07:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17271 @ 0.00091861 = 15.8653 BTC [+]

18:08:05 ThickAsThieves: "Officers who were dating often conspired to get assigned to the I.O. room at the same time, where they analyzed the nude images with one eye apiece, at best."

18:08:20 ThickAsThieves: "All the old, crass stereotypes about race and genitalia size thrived on our secure government radio channels."

18:08:45 mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/429315308973588481

18:08:45 ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @Jas0nHarringt0n You're not ...

18:08:53 mircea_popescu: hopefully he takes the gist of it and offs himself.

18:09:47 ThickAsThieves: they asked for dosimeters and were denied too

18:10:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

18:10:29 mircea_popescu: you know what ? it came out at nurnberg that most of the nazis working for the jew extermination agencies were trying to do a good job.

18:10:44 mircea_popescu: plenty of them were aspiring writers, too. just... you know, needed the dough.

18:10:49 mircea_popescu: god forbid they go hungry.

18:10:54 mircea_popescu: important people, these.

18:18:48 ThickAsThieves: the guy ended up getting a scholarship

18:18:53 ThickAsThieves: and quitting

18:19:20 ThickAsThieves: quitting the TSA*

18:21:34 Duffer1: TSA - come for the security theater, stay because we can't end the program during an employment crisis

18:24:53 mike_c: re: telsa fire. this video caused a stir stateside a few months ago:

18:24:55 mike_c: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kjI08n4fg

18:24:56 ozbot: Tesla car on fire - YouTube

18:25:36 mike_c: apparently the batteries don't do well when pierced from the bottom by road debris

18:27:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1 = 0.2 BTC

18:29:57 Dimsler_: you guys

18:30:01 Dimsler_: i got a pump up video

18:30:03 Dimsler_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZthKY5P_9Rk

18:30:04 ozbot: [DOGE] xX_D0G3C0IN_Xx - YouTube

18:30:13 Dimsler_: you can all watch this and pace back and fourth in your basements

18:31:36 ThickAsThieves: or we can ignore anything with doge in it

18:33:56 mircea_popescu: mike_c obviously. a ton and a half lithium battery is a fucking hazard of the 1st degree

18:34:07 mircea_popescu: not that they won't get good at it with practice, just... i dun wanna be the practice.

18:35:27 benkay: mircea_popescu's waiting for the power-seat in the back china tesla edition

18:36:13 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves yeah, and if satan gives him a scholarship next he's gonna spend a year or two warming tar.

18:36:42 mircea_popescu: and then try to leech some more money off of it by writing a book about what an asshole he was for THAT stretch of his life.

18:36:58 benkay: http://www.carnewschina.com/2013/08/08/tesla-model-s-will-have-an-executive-back-seat-in-china/

18:37:01 ozbot: Tesla Model S will have an “executive back seat” in China | CarNewsChina.com - China Auto News

18:37:22 mircea_popescu: when did "executive" become "luxury" i wish to know.

18:40:23 benkay: we're all ceo's nao

18:42:37 kakobrekla: ceo of pleb.com

18:43:01 kakobrekla: o thats actually a site

18:43:03 kakobrekla: nvm

18:43:57 ThickAsThieves: about a third of people I require to sign messages with their wallet for ID, don't send the message, only the sig

18:44:34 kakobrekla: at least they know what a bitcoin address is.

18:45:27 ThickAsThieves: what's worse is friedcat pretty much never requires signed transfers anymore

18:46:14 ThickAsThieves: i dont know whether open requests are scammers or people Friedcat just ignored

18:46:37 ThickAsThieves: scammers just never follow up I guess

18:46:44 mircea_popescu: ><

18:46:59 mircea_popescu: so basically the brilliance of asicminer has by now ensured the entire thing is an utter mess

18:47:03 mircea_popescu: only took 9 months, too.

18:47:23 mircea_popescu: ain't working with responsible, competent people a fucking blessing.

18:47:33 Dimsler_: lol

18:53:41 ThickAsThieves: surprisingly, there are no cases of "Friedcat stole my shares!" tho

18:54:17 mircea_popescu: not until the scammors start figuring out the hole.

18:55:07 ThickAsThieves: i take extra measures to make sure i cant be impersonated

18:55:13 mircea_popescu: lol good one, i needed a dbl tacke

18:55:14 ThickAsThieves: sorry pankkake

18:55:34 ThickAsThieves: of course this assumes friedcat cares...

18:55:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8873 @ 0.00091604 = 8.128 BTC [-]

18:55:52 mircea_popescu: srsly ? ThickAssThieves, ThickAsThievs, everything all taken ?

18:56:18 ThickAsThieves: for one, i dont use forums for biz at all anymore

18:57:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15814 @ 0.00091708 = 14.5027 BTC [+] {2}

18:58:14 mircea_popescu: so you figure this does anything ?

18:58:30 mircea_popescu: think about it : to the average tard, whether you're one of the 500 scammers named after you or not makes no diff.

18:58:41 mircea_popescu: he still deals with you on the forum, whether you know of this or not.

18:58:50 ThickAsThieves: well its not all i do

18:58:55 mircea_popescu: one fine day they'll hold a vote about whether you should pay for it anyway

18:59:25 mircea_popescu: (yea i understand, just making a point)

19:02:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.0057001 = 0.3591 BTC [-] {5}

19:04:54 Dimsler_: lol

19:04:59 Dimsler_: bitcoin is all scammers

19:05:11 Dimsler_: angry greedy nerds

19:07:55 ThickAsThieves: the nouveau riche arent known for their poise

19:08:24 Dimsler_: lol

19:08:30 Dimsler_: exactly

19:20:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18550 @ 0.00091334 = 16.9425 BTC [-] {3}

19:20:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 193 @ 0.00084999 = 0.164 BTC [+] {2}

19:21:47 midnightmagic: ThickAsThieves: +1

19:25:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02650833 = 0.159 BTC [-] {2}

19:25:45 PsychoticBoy__: 2 years ago I had to work, now people are working hard very hard for me :)

19:26:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 159 @ 0.00420804 = 0.6691 BTC [-] {4}

19:26:27 PsychoticBoy__: thats how the cookie crumbles

19:26:39 kakobrekla: thats how the bitcoin crumbles

19:26:45 PsychoticBoy__: :D

19:27:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 70 @ 0.00390028 = 0.273 BTC [-] {2}

19:27:31 kakobrekla: wait werent you running something on glbse

19:28:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00091174 = 11.1688 BTC [-] {3}

19:29:58 kakobrekla: ok ok

19:30:05 kakobrekla: hoho, this one is nice and easy

19:30:06 kakobrekla: >I guess I will answer the best I can. It is really about being in the right place at the right time. I have done really well and also lost my ass in the past. I have pretty much been involved in just about anything BTC related that was not an obvious scam, and some that where.

19:30:16 kakobrekla: guess who

19:30:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.33 BTC [-]

19:30:52 Duffer1: goat?

19:30:57 kakobrekla: bingo

19:31:11 mircea_popescu: lol

19:31:26 mircea_popescu: goat's been trying real hard to come out as if he's trustworthy, past all forgotten etc.

19:32:02 kakobrekla: omg haha its gets better.

19:32:08 kakobrekla: >That Lambo is not really a significant part of my investment portfolio. I did it when I did cuz of Greenspan saying he could not see any "intrinsic value" in BTC. So I was like fuck it, people don't care about intrinsic value, they care about shit like Lambos. Did it for the PR.

19:33:01 mircea_popescu: derp.

19:33:15 Duffer1: he should hook me up with a couple btc

19:33:17 Duffer1: for the pr

19:34:14 Duffer1: i also accept lambo

19:34:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.33 BTC [-]

19:34:39 kakobrekla: i think one of the reasons he change his forum name like 5 times is to help to cut the ties to scams

19:35:12 PsychoticBoy__: yes kakobrekla I was running something on glbse

19:35:25 PsychoticBoy__: and later I was running some new assets on Bitfunder

19:35:37 kakobrekla: aha aha, classic.

19:35:48 Duffer1: any plans for ciphertrade?

19:36:01 kakobrekla: no cryptostock either?

19:36:37 PsychoticBoy__: no cryptostocks or havelock

19:37:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

19:37:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 29 @ 0.02603447 = 0.755 BTC [-] {5}

19:38:03 kakobrekla: well, if you picked your exchanges at random, theres a good chance one of them would still be online, makes you think if you went for the shittiest deliberately

19:39:09 mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> i think one of the reasons he change his forum name like 5 times is to help to cut the ties to scams << you tihnk ?!

19:39:28 kakobrekla: or split personality, what do i know

19:39:55 kakobrekla: and yes,

19:39:57 kakobrekla: i think,

19:39:59 kakobrekla: and it hurts.

19:40:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8771 @ 0.00090864 = 7.9697 BTC [-]

19:41:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC

19:41:39 mircea_popescu: think with the other head alternatively

19:41:43 mircea_popescu: lower load, cooler cpu...

19:43:36 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.25 = 1 BTC [-]

19:44:24 jurov: benkay: where did you get this from? Writing options and providing the required collateral puts those options into the pool from which a counterparty is randomly selected during an exercise event.

19:44:37 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.24310363 = 0.9724 BTC

19:45:03 jurov: you really think mpex throws dice every time someone exercises an option?

19:45:38 jurov: would be fun, tho :D

19:47:09 mike_c: mpex + JD = more excitement

19:49:12 Dimsler_: yeah until you can't get your money out

19:50:45 mike_c: i don't get it. which of those do you have trouble getting money out of?

19:52:45 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20618 @ 0.000097 = 1.9999 BTC [+]

19:58:56 mircea_popescu: this is a point, no large dice site crashed and burned so far.

19:59:00 jurov: http://explo.yt/post/2014/01/21/Options-and-MPOE maybe i'll try to improve it, but it's basically done

19:59:01 mircea_popescu: props for a good model.

19:59:02 ozbot: MPEx: The Missing Manual 6 - Options - serialized delusions

20:00:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15633 @ 0.00091609 = 14.3212 BTC [+] {2}

20:01:11 kakobrekla: all models are wrong

20:01:19 kakobrekla: but some are useful, they say.

20:02:04 mircea_popescu: jurov : "This process is not visible to the collateral holder in the course of the month."

20:02:10 mircea_popescu: this changed meanwhile.

20:02:47 jurov: heh.. so the collateral in stat output changes as exercises are done?

20:02:53 mircea_popescu: yep

20:02:57 mike_c: thanks for link jurov. good post, i will be bookmarking for the six times a week i forget how to calculate the profit on those.

20:03:08 mircea_popescu: lol

20:03:26 mircea_popescu: jurov it all started with mike_c being a little bitch.

20:03:30 mike_c: hehe

20:03:38 mircea_popescu: but it really went downhill once he actually had a point

20:03:51 mike_c: it took mysterious other parties to convince him there was a point.

20:05:39 mircea_popescu: well i don't listen to noobs.

20:05:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.24310363 = 2.431 BTC

20:06:52 mike_c: four more months i think until my 1 year bitcoin-assets birthday.

20:07:26 jurov: i'd like to see the arguments :D

20:07:39 mircea_popescu: o hey. throwing a party ?

20:07:52 mike_c: kako won't come to the us

20:08:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02699999 = 0.162 BTC [+]

20:08:13 mircea_popescu: jurov you know, about once a meeting the idea surfaces that "we shouild just film this. itcould be a movie"

20:08:34 kakobrekla: cause he still has a fart worth of sanity left.

20:08:37 mircea_popescu: kako doesn't want his tics felt up ?

20:09:07 mircea_popescu: The Sanitary Fartworth, an Illustrated Book of Sayings.

20:09:18 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nubbins` ^

20:09:18 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:09:21 benkay: jurov: from mircea_popescu himself

20:09:25 mircea_popescu: that should go over well

20:09:27 kakobrekla: the, the customs will be like "dude, i won the bet but you paid less than i sent, come with me for a sec"

20:09:36 mircea_popescu: lmao

20:09:45 jurov: dunno how would one film this. people sitting in front of monitor, grinning?

20:09:56 jurov: with short cut from bildercoin meeting

20:10:12 mircea_popescu: jurov it's usually irl.

20:10:22 mircea_popescu: gotta be able to brandish things at people or else what sort of an argument is it.

20:11:04 benkay: ah well there is a mistake in there isn't it - the way i understand the selection to work is that an exercise hits everyone who underwrote proportionately to the fraction of outstanding contracts that they wrote

20:11:15 jurov: oh yes then.i'd really like to see the cherry truck selection meeting

20:11:26 mircea_popescu: we were drunk.

20:11:35 Dimsler_: you guys

20:11:43 Dimsler_: more info aon gash.io?

20:11:51 Dimsler_: legit or not?

20:11:59 benkay: but jurov it is true that just writing an option puts it into the pool that can be exercised against

20:12:14 mircea_popescu: Dimsler_ seems legit.

20:12:22 lippoper: big ass bait: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8jcvoJgKU1qkwo4to1_1280.jpg

20:12:24 benkay: and also mike_c jurov commissioned the m3 from me

20:12:32 Dimsler_: so if i buy 100g/hash

20:12:34 Dimsler_: from them

20:12:38 Dimsler_: it pays me every 25blocks

20:12:39 Dimsler_: ?

20:12:46 jurov: brb

20:12:48 mircea_popescu: you mean gHash.io or gash.io ?

20:12:51 mircea_popescu: never heard of gash.

20:13:07 Dimsler_: https://www.cex.io/#GHS-BTC

20:13:09 Dimsler_: these guys

20:13:35 Duffer1: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=439399.msg4861912#msg4861912

20:13:36 kakobrekla: well

20:13:37 ozbot: [SOLB-SOL] Sollar Bond World's First Crypto-Bond [PRE-SALE THREAD]

20:13:39 kakobrekla: its not a scam, as scuh.

20:13:41 Duffer1: them fightin words

20:13:42 kakobrekla: such

20:13:52 mircea_popescu: cex.io peopl have been bitching about but i've not heard something subsytantive.

20:17:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1267 @ 0.000918 = 1.1631 BTC [+]

20:17:35 lippoper: it's pre-sale, much trouble

20:17:47 lippoper: they probably don't even have the mining gear yet

20:18:09 mircea_popescu: mike_c http://www.btcalpha.com/blog/2014/you-can-raise-it-but-you-cant-spend-it/ myep.

20:18:36 mircea_popescu: a review of the complete count of all bitcoin companies to date, and their spending patters may reveal that this is like ... the only 2 out of about 300 to do this.

20:19:10 mike_c: yes. the20year is going to be on the wrong side of that unfortunately.

20:19:14 mircea_popescu: actually, benkay, you still looking for fun shit to do ?

20:19:21 mircea_popescu: how about you make the complete list of all bitcoin companies ever.

20:19:24 mircea_popescu: all of them.

20:19:36 kakobrekla: i have been saying same since 2012

20:19:38 benkay: oh god

20:19:42 KRS1: heh

20:19:46 kakobrekla: but ppl are like "DIVERSIFY YOU IDIOT"

20:19:47 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i'm stealing it.

20:20:07 mircea_popescu: benkay no, srlsly, it's a great thing to do, if it's complete.

20:20:15 benkay: mircea_popescu: will you commission that?

20:20:22 KRS1: wow. big bait. much ass.

20:20:36 mircea_popescu: how much comission do you want /

20:20:59 mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/01/31_mix-your-coins-for-1-bitbet-as-mixer.html << lol he ran off with it.

20:21:00 ozbot: Mix your coins for 1% - Bitbet as Mixer

20:21:08 mircea_popescu: suppose i just don't charge you for teh info ? :D

20:21:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.6248 = 3.124 BTC [-] {2}

20:21:16 kakobrekla: i dont think its even possible to do complete list

20:21:17 benkay: you have a list?

20:21:57 mircea_popescu: sort-of.

20:22:20 mircea_popescu: benkay suppose i give you the half-bitcoin i have leftover from the painting thing ? but srsly, do it thoroughly, don't leave anything out.

20:22:38 benkay: mighty nebulous criteria sir

20:22:49 mircea_popescu: whyssat ?

20:23:01 KRS1: benkay: Here is a great list to get started: http://www.bitcoin-tools.de/links.html

20:23:13 mircea_popescu: nono

20:23:17 mircea_popescu: i mean strictly public comps

20:23:22 mircea_popescu: things that ever took investment from the public.

20:23:54 benkay: so basically trawl bitcointalk/investments back to 2010 or w/e

20:23:58 mircea_popescu: 2009.

20:24:03 benkay: yeah

20:24:09 KRS1: curl grep ipo

20:24:15 mircea_popescu: this is a good idea yeah.

20:24:21 benkay: mhm

20:24:26 mircea_popescu: im sure people with history will volunteer names to fill gaps

20:24:46 benkay: what, is this a list or a review of each individual scam!?

20:24:54 mircea_popescu: and just, name, what it supposedly did, when it opened, who run it, when it closed, other notes etc.

20:25:09 mircea_popescu: well obviously a pankkake-style list isn't too helpful

20:25:32 kakobrekla: you need glbse

20:25:42 kakobrekla: and everything that went aside exchanges

20:25:44 pankkake: no glbse archive?

20:26:03 mircea_popescu: some twerps (goat, etc) deleted their posts, obviously.

20:26:08 mircea_popescu: usagi ran like... 6 things ?

20:26:12 pankkake: anyway, it seems like an ungodly amount of work

20:26:17 mircea_popescu: it does.

20:26:28 mircea_popescu: but it'd also yield a reference point.

20:26:40 kakobrekla: ok i have this crazy and mostly useless thing one sec

20:27:01 mike_c: plus, doesn't have to be complete to publish. start with recent ones and work backwards.

20:27:13 mircea_popescu: start with old ones and work forwards. much better.

20:27:17 benkay: i'd rather work forwards

20:27:19 mike_c: harder though

20:27:21 mircea_popescu: with recent ones all the scum will have an incentive to argue about shit.

20:27:26 mircea_popescu: with old stuff... they won't even notice.

20:28:08 benkay: ;;calc .5/300

20:28:08 gribble: 0.00166666666667

20:28:14 pankkake: perhaps do it somewhere others can contribute

20:28:25 mircea_popescu: history is written ad urbe condita not last superbowl backwardsia.

20:28:28 mike_c: this practically is a complete list of current:

20:28:30 mike_c: http://bitcoinscammers.com/

20:28:31 ozbot: Bitcoin Scammers & (Other Cryptocurrency Scammers)

20:28:35 benkay: you can contribute by emailing me, pankkake ;)

20:29:03 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/tickers.txt

20:29:07 pankkake: this adds a procrastination layer

20:29:09 benkay: mike_c: too bad it's not listified

20:29:49 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla dafuck is that ?

20:31:07 KRS1: mircea_popescu: so the IPO/bitcoin investment model is similar to the trading style where you want to increase your bitcoin instead of fiat (in hopes to buy back lower)?

20:31:24 kakobrekla: that hash is md5($exchange.$asset)

20:31:37 kakobrekla: the numbers is the last price at which the asset traded

20:31:40 KRS1: In other words, the companies seeking investment would have to purchase their goods/services in bitcoin in order to do this.

20:31:43 mircea_popescu: can you unhash it ?

20:31:47 kakobrekla: no

20:31:49 kakobrekla: :D

20:31:55 mircea_popescu: lol

20:32:00 kakobrekla: was not ment to beunhashed

20:32:02 mircea_popescu: halpful.

20:32:08 benkay: hashful

20:32:09 mircea_popescu: KRS1 hm ?

20:32:10 kakobrekla: well you can guess

20:32:27 mike_c: benkay: its paginated. bitcoinscammers.com/page/3/ bitcoinscammers.com/page/4/, etc

20:32:28 mircea_popescu: yes dude, and if we don't recall a fucking name we just sit here hashing letters like idjits

20:32:28 kakobrekla: MPEX.S.MPOE or something

20:32:35 pankkake: shouldn't be hard to brute force actually, not many chars

20:32:38 kakobrekla: well

20:32:48 kakobrekla: you can see how many you are missing

20:32:54 mircea_popescu: this is a point

20:33:05 kakobrekla: you know i said it was crazy and useless

20:33:09 kakobrekla: so fuck off

20:33:20 mircea_popescu: so you did eh.

20:33:26 mircea_popescu: i thought you were being sarcastic

20:33:30 kakobrekla: no no.

20:33:47 mircea_popescu: go ask fluffles to teach you sarcasm.

20:34:15 kakobrekla: should be fairly quick to bruteforce this

20:34:20 benkay: mircea_popescu: given the "ungodly" amount of work involved i think perhaps 2 btc

20:34:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.24310363 = 0.9724 BTC

20:34:30 mircea_popescu: #bitcoin-assets : your daily source of insane ways to spend all your free time for great justice.

20:34:43 kakobrekla: heh

20:34:47 mircea_popescu: benkay im not rly hiring you to do it tho, think of it as mostly volunteer work.

20:34:49 kakobrekla: not too far off

20:35:02 pankkake: s/volunteer/slave/

20:35:07 mircea_popescu: lol

20:35:46 kakobrekla: and dont forget to put it in niggers.txt on the end.

20:35:52 mircea_popescu: lol

20:35:54 KRS1: In reference to "You Can Raise It But You Can't Spend It". Whats wrong with a company sticking to their business plan, soliciting for $X amount of funds, receiving it in bitcoin, converting it to fiat? Then the proper execution of the business plan can take place with the investment model of using bitcoins for funding. If the value of bitcoins goes up or down, it does not matter. The

20:35:55 KRS1: company seeking investment isn't buying their goods/services in bitcoin and they've properly funded their venture. If they cannot meet their goals using the solicited funds thats another problem entirely.

20:36:38 mircea_popescu: KRS1 the entire thing revolves around the empirical observation that companies which did not spend their ipo funds outperformed companies that did spend them, without exception.

20:36:53 mike_c: the problem is that the company is then competing with the BTC/fiat ROI

20:36:53 mircea_popescu: this is ultimately a problem of btc, of course, but still. financial analysis is what it is.

20:36:59 KRS1: And if the market price tanked without rebounding?

20:37:07 mircea_popescu: well then that'd be exactly the reverse

20:37:14 mircea_popescu: hence "empirical" in my line.

20:37:26 mike_c: if you want to short BTC there are better ways than investing in one of these companies.

20:37:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.1 = 0.3 BTC

20:37:38 pankkake: if you invest in a bitcoin company, somehow you're also thinking bitcoin will do well, right?

20:37:48 mircea_popescu: pankkake depends if the company is btc or not.

20:37:50 KRS1: good point pankkake

20:38:14 benkay: mircea_popescu: recommended donation for public service: 0.006 btc/security unearthed

20:38:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1 = 0.2 BTC

20:39:00 benkay: also an interesting note: the oldest posts on the securities forum on bitcointalk are from like march. was there a db restore in which btctalk dropped all date information or something?

20:39:08 mircea_popescu: what ?!

20:39:15 pankkake: maybe the section did not exist

20:39:25 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8167.0

20:39:26 ozbot: SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company

20:39:27 mircea_popescu: one of the first.

20:39:30 pankkake: and it was on a more generic one

20:39:40 pankkake: yeah, just Marketplace

20:39:47 mircea_popescu: there's also something run by uhhh... what was his name, the weirdo indian guy

20:40:03 mircea_popescu: and some shitty thing run by i forget who. those were the first three.

20:40:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5033 @ 0.0009111 = 4.5856 BTC [-]

20:41:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5417 @ 0.00091747 = 4.9699 BTC [+]

20:42:42 KRS1: If I'm an investor in a company using bitcoin and the day after my investment, bitcoin market price shoots upward and remains high, it kind of sucks I'm still investor X having invested only btc $Y.

20:43:05 kakobrekla: btw benkay re mixing, there is no g uarantee you will not get your own coins back

20:43:07 KRS1: However dividends paid out would make it equal i suppose.

20:43:41 KRS1: Unless dividends paid are always in fiat based on btc investd.

20:43:47 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla there is however a guarantee a third party can't establish they're your coins.

20:44:20 mircea_popescu: KRS1 you have 1 btc. you invest it. company trades it for 100 dollars, buys a hooker. the hooker makes 10 dollars a week.

20:44:55 mircea_popescu: your share yields .1 BTC a week, and thus is worth w/e .1 * riskfreerate comes to.

20:45:10 mircea_popescu: tomorrow btc goes to 10k. now your share yields .01 BTC a week, thus is worth 1/10 what it was.

20:45:44 kakobrekla: do we give out certificates or guarantees?

20:45:52 kakobrekla: one can see it as a weird bet

20:45:58 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla but suppose you go bet, and put in an address.

20:46:09 mircea_popescu: now, you know that that's your address, but someone looking in doesn't.

20:46:18 mircea_popescu: maybe you put obama's address in as a prank.

20:46:30 kakobrekla: obama will have trouble.

20:46:35 mircea_popescu: well so then.

20:47:21 kakobrekla: it gives clues and if futher investigation happens you can be out of luck

20:47:34 kakobrekla: so the guarantee isnt there

20:47:50 mircea_popescu: in this sense, the clue given is no different from the clue of "we don't like your face very much"

20:47:55 mircea_popescu: it's not a clue, it's purely arbitrary.

20:48:05 kakobrekla: arbitrary clue.

20:48:17 kakobrekla: police uses shrinks

20:48:21 kakobrekla: why wouldnt they bitbet.

20:48:43 mircea_popescu: i'm saying they wouldn't ?!

20:48:53 kakobrekla: ok chief of the universe.

20:49:04 mircea_popescu: lol how did i get mixed into this

20:49:13 mircea_popescu: I DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING

20:49:38 pankkake: "Further more there is no company behind Sollar Bonds. As stated it is an Open-Sourced Dac with a Social Contract attached to each bond. Google social contract. Sollar Bonds is not a company it is a DAC-DAO."

20:49:57 mircea_popescu: awww, so close to it being a herp-derp!

20:50:07 kakobrekla: what is dac dao

20:50:23 mircea_popescu: ;;google DAC-DAO

20:50:24 gribble: Dac Dao Tran | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dacdao.tran; Ho Dac Dao: http://hodacdao.com/; ky niem lop k16- Phan vien Mien Nam - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEYRIFg5A5Y

20:50:27 pankkake: decentralized autonomous corporation and the other I don't know

20:50:31 mircea_popescu: i got a Dấu hiệu của người sắp đắc đạo - Thực Dưỡng

20:51:00 mircea_popescu: pankkake "o i know, we'll rename mpex shit and pretend like we matter". gotta love the kids.

20:51:12 pankkake: no, it's worse

20:51:26 mircea_popescu: obviously.

20:51:39 mircea_popescu: "we'll copy [what we understand]"

20:52:17 Duffer1: "Sollars is private, its distributed, and its privately distributed with no central points of failure BUT a central point of value and accountability (our company & community)"

20:52:30 pankkake: it's worser

20:52:52 mircea_popescu: lol

20:53:06 mircea_popescu: this promises to be better than dmc.

20:54:02 jurov: just curious, do preorder schemes apply for that list?

20:54:29 mircea_popescu: they should i tihnk.

20:54:46 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.624999 BTC [+]

20:54:56 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell RBRubicon dude seriously, fix that connection.

20:54:57 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:56:43 mircea_popescu: "This creation of a new city, piled on top of the massive tribute owed to the Persians, as well as the necessary donative to the army to secure its acceptance of his accession, meant Philip was desperately short of money. To pay for it, he ruthlessly increased levels of taxation, while at the same time he ceased paying subsidies to the tribes north of the Danube that were vital for keeping the peace on the frontiers."

20:56:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 40 @ 0.027 = 1.08 BTC [+] {2}

20:57:00 mircea_popescu: you know... it occurs to me the us is so utterly out of moneyz, it's actually running short on stuff to pay its allies.

20:57:36 mike_c: luckily our tribes to the north are vital for only maple syrup

20:57:56 Diablo-D3: >US pays allies

20:58:00 Diablo-D3: lol.

20:58:01 mircea_popescu: yeah, but the tribes in the midwest...

20:59:29 mircea_popescu: afghanistan gdp is nominally 18bn, of which ~3bn direct us deposits.

21:00:56 benkay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2503.0

21:00:58 ozbot: Bitcoin in China

21:01:13 benkay: Nefario: "I'm in China, English teacher, slow/poorish Ruby webdev programmer."

21:01:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, usaid economic support went 8-7-5bn 2009-2011

21:02:34 kakobrekla: lol benkay i thought you were joking.

21:05:24 mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Philipnote.jpg << anyone guess how old this thing is ?

21:05:41 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu re asset list, grep the old assets logs to compile one, you should be able to get full glbse there

21:05:57 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [+]

21:05:58 kakobrekla: most of the rest is still obtainable

21:06:03 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla interesting idea, lessee.

21:06:06 jurov: one'll have to check the benkay's list thoroughly, if he does it.

21:06:19 jurov: i just found he divided MPEx into 10 billion shares instead of 1b

21:06:41 mircea_popescu: zing.

21:06:43 benkay: >.<

21:06:58 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]

21:07:16 mircea_popescu: **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 12 23:03:54 2012

21:07:20 mircea_popescu: this looks promising.

21:08:16 benkay: irc logs?

21:08:33 kakobrekla: yea

21:08:57 kakobrekla: like 2 days after chan was created

21:09:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [+]

21:09:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00090891 = 7.7712 BTC [-] {3}

21:09:03 kakobrekla: he so slow.

21:09:43 mircea_popescu: lol

21:09:56 mircea_popescu: the week otc died

21:10:01 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

21:10:22 kakobrekla: (mind if he would be a month late, it would be the month that otc died)

21:11:16 mircea_popescu: ^

21:15:06 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.0029 = 0.1392 BTC [-]

21:16:03 KRS1: That sucks. I'd rather invest fiat in a company for non variable returns.

21:16:07 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.13 = 0.26 BTC [-]

21:16:11 KRS1: or btc I suppose

21:16:24 kakobrekla: ponzi has non variable returns

21:16:39 mike_c: you mean you want a bitcoin CD?

21:17:00 KRS1: I'd rather not receive dividends in btc I suppose..Value is subject to market price.

21:17:23 mike_c: well if you want a fiat CD i'm pretty sure those are available..

21:17:59 KRS1: Oh so the real sex here is that the btc can be worth many timees what it is..I suppose it can go the other way too.

21:19:07 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/1579433/

21:19:07 ozbot: dpaste: #1579433

21:19:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]

21:19:11 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 45 @ 0.00596698 = 0.2685 BTC [+] {2}

21:19:15 mircea_popescu: 295

21:19:54 kakobrekla: kako & mp saves the day.

21:20:15 mike_c: [SATOSHISDAEMON.HORSE] must have been a winner

21:20:24 mircea_popescu: nah, it was a filly never ran

21:20:30 mircea_popescu: she just didn't like running, the owners said.

21:20:31 kakobrekla: the stakes were high, err, i mean tasty.

21:20:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, plenty of old assets never traded

21:20:50 mircea_popescu: like the aforementioned skepsi

21:21:12 kakobrekla: cmon i thought that was pretty funny

21:21:20 mircea_popescu: :p

21:21:32 mike_c: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JnxM_vuAsuY/Tzbk6hagwbI/AAAAAAAAAho/5p5kBwiWw54/s1600/sd.jpg

21:21:36 mircea_popescu: shit, this only goes to march 2013

21:21:40 kakobrekla: i wonder if that horse ever saw a stable

21:21:59 kakobrekla: or was it just down

21:22:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 26 @ 0.00446998 = 0.1162 BTC [+]

21:22:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.04999994 = 0.75 BTC [+]

21:22:35 dub: it ran twice

21:22:50 mike_c: hehe, first race it placed last

21:23:09 kakobrekla: and last race, he places first,

21:23:12 dub: two lasts iirc so it went off to be a trail^Wglue horse

21:23:12 kakobrekla: in stakehouse.

21:23:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 74 @ 0.00446998 = 0.3308 BTC [+]

21:23:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.624999 = 1.25 BTC [+]

21:23:47 dub: I had a peice of that

21:23:54 dub: actually not a bad model

21:24:04 mircea_popescu: horses ?

21:24:06 mike_c: selling crappy racehorses?

21:24:08 mircea_popescu: yeah if you hav someone competent.

21:24:19 dub: I've got a buddy who owns racehorses actually.. hmm

21:24:49 mircea_popescu: is he a btc buff ?

21:24:57 dub: learning

21:24:59 kakobrekla: you know, bitcoin means "to be a horse" in slovene

21:25:07 mircea_popescu: hahaha

21:25:22 benkay: are the glbse assets on that list?

21:25:55 mircea_popescu: yes, but hang a second, it's incomplete yet.

21:27:18 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.14 BTC [+]

21:27:26 mike_c: it's funny cuz it's true :) "biti konj" ?

21:27:44 mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/1579444/ <

21:27:44 ozbot: dpaste: #1579444

21:28:06 mircea_popescu: 470, but a whole bunch of mpex options etc.

21:28:34 benkay: mhm

21:28:49 mircea_popescu: [OBSI.HRPT] << look at that lol

21:28:58 mircea_popescu: possibly the cleanest scammer to date.

21:29:16 benkay: that's not a canonical list though, right? there are other 'security' trading operations not reporting trades in -assets-trades, correct?

21:29:59 mircea_popescu: benkay everything that ever actually traded since april 2012 till today is in that list, except bitfunder stuff cause Ukyo never got with the program.

21:30:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00596696 = 0.1492 BTC [-]

21:30:27 mircea_popescu: so you'd need to add bitfunder, pre-2012 crap (since may 2011, on the forum) and that'd be about it

21:30:40 benkay: oof

21:30:44 benkay: much work

21:30:51 mircea_popescu: such doge!

21:31:10 benkay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3370.msg54804#msg54804

21:31:11 ozbot: Looking for co-investor(s) for credit rating and bail bond system

21:31:19 benkay: glbception

21:32:23 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 350 @ 0.000848 = 0.2968 BTC [-]

21:32:53 mircea_popescu: mhm

21:33:26 mircea_popescu: anyway, the true value one receives from completing this monstrous task is attaining a knowledge equal only to the gods themselves.

21:33:47 benkay: no shit.

21:34:05 mircea_popescu: tbh making this list, by hand, would be the qualification for being a bitcoin financial analyst. this is the certificate, like in the old days of the guilds,

21:34:08 mircea_popescu: "go build a boat"

21:34:30 mircea_popescu: let us rejoice we still live in a time when it's humanly possible, and it doesn't even take a full year

21:34:45 mircea_popescu: as opposed to the burdened world of fiat, where useless substitutes take four years+ and deliver no actual value.

21:34:53 kakobrekla: yes mike_c , biti konj

21:35:05 kakobrekla: but you say it bit koin

21:35:15 kakobrekla: dont ask.

21:35:30 mircea_popescu: (which you say donti askj)

21:35:39 kakobrekla: lol

21:35:43 mircea_popescu: hehe

21:36:26 mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/01/31_mix-your-coins-for-1-bitbet-as-mixer.html << benkay you don't even need to do all that. just make odds-neutral bets on already existing propositions.

21:36:27 ozbot: Mix your coins for 1% - Bitbet as Mixer

21:36:44 kakobrekla: or make a rejected proposition and fund that

21:37:00 mircea_popescu: eh shuddup

21:37:05 mike_c: that's basically what he proposed since pi=4 would be rejected

21:37:47 kakobrekla: why shutup is true

21:37:53 kakobrekla: :(

21:38:33 KRS1: "You Can Raise It But You Can't Spend It" is goddamn perplexing.

21:38:42 mike_c: how so?

21:39:08 kakobrekla: mike_c no fees on prop. refunds

21:39:25 KRS1: Because like the article states, "At what point over the last two years would [actually using the money] have been a good idea?"

21:39:29 mike_c: oh yeah, 0% mixer. nice.

21:39:31 mircea_popescu: yeah, until people start doing this, after which there will be a 5% fucking fee.

21:39:35 mike_c: hehe

21:40:02 mike_c: KRS1: yeah, that's the point. don't invest in a company that is going to use the funds for R&D or have fiat-based returns.

21:40:41 kakobrekla: dont give me that look, i just dont like misinformation

21:41:07 mircea_popescu: yeah.

21:41:16 benkay: hang on, why would π=4 get rejected?

21:41:32 mike_c: cuz it's a bad bet.

21:42:03 benkay: how is that a bad bet?

21:42:18 mike_c: um, because nobody would bet on yes?

21:42:23 benkay: not the criteria.

21:42:31 kakobrekla: if its not accepted you cant put it on both sides also

21:42:35 benkay: well, "bad bet" per bitbet faq at least.

21:43:18 mircea_popescu: btw benkay your footnotes scheme is god damn awful

21:43:28 benkay: my everything is awful

21:43:31 mike_c: said the pot to the kettle

21:43:34 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 57 @ 0.00596696 = 0.3401 BTC [-]

21:43:39 benkay: yeah your footnotes suck too

21:43:48 mircea_popescu: "Also, bets which are not really bets but moreover advertising, advocacy, rambling nonsense and such are unacceptable on BitBet."

21:43:57 mircea_popescu: pi=4 falls under rambling nonsense

21:44:07 mircea_popescu: how do my footnotes suck ?!

21:44:07 KRS1: Thats a great article and really "hit home" with me.

21:44:17 benkay: mouseover text is always broken

21:44:19 benkay: has always been broken

21:44:21 mircea_popescu: what! ?

21:44:25 mike_c: 1) not html-encoded properly

21:44:48 mircea_popescu: you hating on the #8217 ?

21:44:52 mike_c: 2) you can't fking read them because they are long and they disappear before you can read the whole thing

21:44:59 benkay: that ^^

21:45:03 mircea_popescu: so click on the thing wtf am i to do

21:45:07 mircea_popescu: want me to hide your back button too ?

21:45:18 mike_c: clicking on them disrupts the reading flow too much

21:45:26 benkay: also iirc your footnotes fuck up your linespacing

21:45:28 mircea_popescu: but i cant contropl how long your browser keeps tooltips up

21:45:32 mircea_popescu: mine keeps them forever.

21:45:39 mike_c: well you could. moar JS.

21:45:52 mircea_popescu: anyway, YOURS suck more because of the pagination you use which is ugly!

21:46:14 benkay: well someday when i'm endowed with a reasonable amount of capital i'll pay someone to fix it

21:46:16 benkay: in the meantime

21:46:20 benkay: there are words, aren't there?

21:46:21 jurov: http://explo.yt/post/2014/01/31/MPEx%3A-The-Missing-Manual-7-Bonds-and-MPOE-stock

21:46:22 mircea_popescu: ^ his

21:46:23 ozbot: MPEx: The Missing Manual 7 - Bonds and S.MPOE stock - serialized delusions

21:46:34 jurov: only futures and i'm done

21:46:40 mircea_popescu: one day when i;m rich ima fix my footnotes

21:46:48 mircea_popescu: jurov you're never done.

21:47:01 jurov: lol at least for today

21:47:01 the20year: mike_c: wrong side of what?

21:47:16 jurov: er..in fact i'm not. today is opex

21:47:17 mircea_popescu: lol

21:47:30 mircea_popescu: just your luck.

21:47:47 mike_c: the20year: you are turning bitcoin into $, which i think is a bad idea.

21:48:01 jurov: he is turning them into brick and mortar

21:48:07 jurov: or at least plywood

21:48:11 the20year: Yeah, i read

21:48:15 jurov: or dry board?

21:48:22 the20year: That's the unfortunate thing with any bitcoin investments, if bitcoin continues to rapidly appreciate

21:48:29 mike_c: well, not any

21:48:34 the20year: But that goes with every single investment in the world that isn't specifically buying bitcoins and holding them

21:48:40 mike_c: untrue

21:49:07 mike_c: bitbet, for example, will not crash if BTC appreciates

21:49:31 benkay: good luck getting btc-denominated rent, the20year

21:49:36 ThickAsThieves: its revenue would decline

21:49:49 mike_c: or it would not decline :)

21:50:23 the20year: I'm not

21:50:26 ThickAsThieves: there are plenty short term investments that could outpace bitcoin

21:50:42 mircea_popescu: name one ?

21:50:43 ThickAsThieves: longterm ones, much harder

21:50:47 the20year: no one would agree to it, additionally no companies would be willing to pay their employees entirely denominated in bitcoin without caveats that would essentially link it to fiat

21:50:48 mircea_popescu: we just went through this with herbi yest.

21:50:58 mike_c: bitbet fee revenue was higher in Q4 2013 than Q3 2013 despite massive BTC appreciation

21:51:31 ThickAsThieves: anything that appreciates in value 10% while bitcoin only moves 2%

21:51:36 mircea_popescu: i guess we managed to conserve purchasing power parity or what was the line ?

21:51:44 the20year: And that would be one of very few examples where it would work ,as long as they can keep their coding fees low

21:51:53 mike_c: kako works for peanuts

21:51:59 ThickAsThieves: <mike_c> bitbet fee revenue was higher in Q4 2013 than Q3 2013 despite massive BTC appreciation <<< it's not that simple

21:52:06 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2014#468891

21:52:14 ThickAsThieves: many bets were made in months ago

21:52:18 the20year: The only hope that I have looking forward, the reason investors back us is because our company can arbitage low interest rates in fiat to then repay them in a manner that *hopefully* will outpace bitcoin

21:52:19 ThickAsThieves: new bets will be smaller

21:52:31 mike_c: like the february difficulty bet?

21:52:47 ThickAsThieves: i read that conv mp

21:52:53 ThickAsThieves: i said short term

21:52:57 mircea_popescu: a ok. so... not that easy to outpace it.

21:53:00 ThickAsThieves: not on full timescale

21:53:02 mircea_popescu: well... he was saying short term too.

21:53:14 ThickAsThieves: just a slice in time

21:53:25 mircea_popescu: what's short term here, two weels ?

21:53:38 mircea_popescu: you can't run corps on a two week horizon. just getting a sale throguh is longer than that.

21:53:42 ThickAsThieves: 1-90 days at best ;)

21:53:59 mircea_popescu: think about it. you wanna buy a house. you do dd. that's a week if you're mercury himself.

21:54:07 mircea_popescu: then engotiate a price. that's a month or two

21:54:11 mircea_popescu: then you do the paperwork etc.

21:54:15 mircea_popescu: there's your 90 days

21:54:47 ThickAsThieves: or, I buy TSLA at 165 and sell at 185

21:55:20 mircea_popescu: yeah but see, the convenience of financial speculation is built on some people actually doing operations at some point.

21:55:30 mircea_popescu: kinda their problems we're discussing

21:55:51 ThickAsThieves: indeed, TSLA did not actually become $20 more valuable in a few days

21:56:17 mircea_popescu: moreover, you can arguably have ops w/o speculation, dubious and sickly as that may be

21:56:22 mircea_popescu: you defo can't have speculation without any ops.

21:56:45 ThickAsThieves: what about you backing options?

21:56:53 ThickAsThieves: whats that?

21:57:18 ThickAsThieves: charity?

21:59:25 mircea_popescu: kinda.

21:59:37 mike_c: it's a loss leader

21:59:43 mircea_popescu: nah.

21:59:50 mircea_popescu: it's actually the backstop function of government.

22:01:44 mircea_popescu: "Vitalik understands growth hacking, and got himself a landing page. It's got that modern, professional, single-pagey look the kids all love, and takes in emails. There's even a countdown to the Revolution beginning, although it's entirely opaque as to what precisely is Revolving other than Satoshi in his grave."

22:01:57 kakobrekla: anyway re tooltip, it will even do you a newline http://shrani.si/f/2x/cK/1RC6vAo6/tooltip.png

22:02:01 mircea_popescu: lol benkay sounds like he's read a lot of -assets

22:02:03 kakobrekla: so much leet.

22:02:26 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla that's the good tooltip

22:02:50 kakobrekla: :)

22:03:03 mircea_popescu: "Humans inevitably want to be a part of a thing. Mostly they want to be led into glorious battle by strong men, but since men no longer lead and battle is not a thing, humans now coalesce into writhing, headless balls of worms in the traditional socialist style of leaderless leadership."

22:03:05 jurov: if/when you fid the unicode problem, ask wao-ender for the text

22:03:08 jurov: *fix

22:03:20 kakobrekla: gime the text and ill look at it

22:03:27 mircea_popescu: lol kako's victory dance was shortlived.

22:03:41 benkay: what about it, mircea_popescu?

22:03:48 mircea_popescu: i like it. saves me a lot of typing.

22:04:00 mircea_popescu: go forth and preach it, sister.

22:04:33 benkay: 's not like i came up with it myself

22:04:55 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.126 = 0.252 BTC [+]

22:04:56 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

22:05:00 mircea_popescu: you ripped it ? where from ?

22:05:10 mircea_popescu: and wtf has exante actually done ?

22:05:18 jurov: kakobrekla looks like it came from there: http://shrani.si/f/2x/cK/1RC6vAo6/tooltip.png

22:05:22 jurov: http://spectator.sme.sk/articles/view/52622/10/all_15_candidates_now_officially_in_presidential_race.html

22:05:24 ozbot: All 15 candidates now officially in presidential race - The Slovak Spectator

22:05:33 wao-ender: kakobrekla: http://hastebin.com/feyuboheti.vhdl

22:05:42 jurov: vhdl?

22:05:42 wao-ender: yes

22:05:45 mircea_popescu: vhdl ?!

22:05:52 mircea_popescu: shit space makes me slow

22:05:52 wao-ender: It's trick!

22:06:03 kakobrekla: ok ill take a look at some point

22:06:19 wao-ender: vov, ten bets, nice

22:06:42 benkay: mircea_popescu many many -assets conversations

22:07:03 mircea_popescu: yea well, you still got the words together naked.

22:07:32 ThickAsThieves: bitcoin magazine isnt done with the derps

22:07:39 ThickAsThieves: "NXT – Proof of Stake and the New Alternative Altcoin"

22:07:52 ThickAsThieves: new alt alt

22:08:14 ThickAsThieves: Yo dawg you like altcoins so much, I ...

22:09:37 mircea_popescu: proof of stake is kind-of the retarded concept of that original scamcoin, what was it

22:09:42 mircea_popescu: solidcoin

22:09:50 mircea_popescu: the guy with the "unspendable" millions that he spent

22:10:00 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.24310363 = 1.2155 BTC

22:11:12 ThickAsThieves: i'm gonna call an altcoin Altcoin

22:11:26 ThickAsThieves: then newbs will be like what are these altcoins i keep hearing about!?

22:12:02 mircea_popescu: hahaha

22:12:05 mircea_popescu: this is a good idea actually.

22:13:10 mircea_popescu: "The Ethereum wiki runs Mediawiki, a tool that seemingly lacks any sort of page indexing, leaving me no choice but to look at all recent changes to all pages for the past thirty days to even get an idea of the scope of writing that's been put into the project." << benkay does this, then complains about forum.

22:13:15 truffles: TAT so meta

22:14:14 ThickAsThieves: incidentally that is one of my ideas for a blog title "So Meta"

22:14:23 truffles: haha

22:14:40 truffles: would read

22:15:05 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9622 @ 0.00091718 = 8.8251 BTC [+] {2}

22:15:27 benkay: whaddaya mean complain about forum?

22:15:29 ThickAsThieves: i dont write nearly enough to hope I'd be good at it, but maybe I read so much it's possible

22:15:40 benkay: i just complain about everything

22:16:05 ThickAsThieves: wait, isnt that why we're here?

22:16:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9428 @ 0.0009176 = 8.6511 BTC [+] {2}

22:16:22 truffles: benkay is lurker

22:16:54 mircea_popescu: these pretzels are making me thristy.

22:16:59 truffles: TAT id like to see your writing style, ure prob funny

22:17:47 ThickAsThieves: maybe one day i'll twitch it for you

22:17:56 truffles: :)

22:19:19 mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/01/12_crs-on-btc-notes-and-jokes.html << o look, even the deconstructivist approach on quotes.

22:19:20 ozbot: CRS on BTC: Notes and Jokes

22:19:33 mircea_popescu: benkay learns a lot by watching does he.

22:20:10 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 83 @ 0.00570353 = 0.4734 BTC [-] {6}

22:20:25 mircea_popescu: also, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird-news/metal-band-skinny-puppy-send-us-government-invoice-after-finding-out-their-music-was-used-as-torture-device-in-guantanamo-bay-9100005.html

22:21:11 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00091837 = 5.0051 BTC [+]

22:21:22 mircea_popescu: i like how the research office simply restates the MP stand on the matter back in 2012,

22:21:55 benkay: ya well what is research after all

22:21:59 mircea_popescu: yet the "community" and it's "press" fails to print in two inch letters "Hey! We have a guy here that's two years smarter than the best of the USG. That's why you're fucked."

22:22:16 mircea_popescu: lettuce instead focus on what pothead got busted last.

22:23:18 pankkake: > metal band skinny puppy

22:23:24 pankkake: > torture

22:23:36 pankkake: I guess I'm USG-proof

22:24:00 kakobrekla: lol

22:24:07 pankkake: maybe the torture is confusing music genres

22:24:19 mircea_popescu: you they probably torture with arab koran chanting, or with nun music

22:25:27 mircea_popescu: kinda funny, if you think about it, how "torture" = enforced enlarging, in this case. god forbid you listen to some music you don't normally.

22:25:27 pankkake: I would probably like it… I dislike happy music though

22:25:45 mircea_popescu: what else, they make some modest woman go about naked. torture of all hells. yet other women love being nude.

22:25:58 mircea_popescu: basically the one thing people most hate is being exposed to other things.

22:26:01 truffles: pankkake why's that

22:26:02 mircea_popescu: to the degree it's "torture"

22:26:26 pankkake: truffles: happy music makes me sad, while sad/dark music calms me

22:26:34 truffles: weird

22:27:20 truffles: sad music makes me even sadder

22:27:36 kakobrekla: and happy music just sad?

22:27:42 truffles: cheery

22:27:47 pankkake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jpJ662vgvk


22:27:59 truffles: gotta turn on the sad music to go with sad mood amirite

22:28:26 ThickAsThieves: "altcoin" is in the works

22:28:36 kakobrekla: make it sha

22:28:39 ThickAsThieves: i did

22:28:45 pankkake: metaltcoin?

22:29:08 truffles: omg pankkake no seizure warning

22:31:30 kakobrekla: btw if someone wants to do it, primecoin fork with a finite coinbase should do better than most of alts outthere imho

22:32:01 ThickAsThieves: subprimecoin

22:32:19 pankkake: with a coin cap?

22:32:31 pankkake: maybe so, but it will happen eventually

22:32:48 pankkake: certainly slower without asics

22:33:06 pankkake: (block reward decreases with difficulty increasing)

22:34:15 ThickAsThieves: no, Altcoin will be the clear winner because it actually serves a purpose: to clean up the ridiculous altcoin market so everyone can relax, focus on one, and become rich just like early bitcoin adopters!

22:34:41 ThickAsThieves: i'll do to altcoins what i did to mining binds

22:34:42 pankkake: oh it's an altcoin named altcoin

22:34:44 ThickAsThieves: bonds*

22:34:56 ThickAsThieves: gut it

22:34:56 pankkake: let's hope so!

22:35:15 kakobrekla: whens the release

22:35:39 ThickAsThieves: waiting for coingen and the seat of my pants

22:36:19 pankkake: I'll mine it unless it's scrypt

22:36:26 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00084999 = 0.255 BTC [+] {2}

22:36:27 ThickAsThieves: sha

22:36:48 ThickAsThieves: maybe i'll have post in forums and put in my sig

22:36:49 pankkake: maybe that block erupter will make me rich after all

22:36:50 ThickAsThieves: lol

22:37:15 mircea_popescu: Much of the noise in the liberal American internet revolves around making people feel good by talking about things they think are bad and raising the consciousness in a futile quest to change the world by talking. There are hugely diminishing returns to raising consciousness (even assuming the ideas you're promulgating aren't of the rankest communist origin). << this.

22:37:20 mircea_popescu: fucking "raise awareness".

22:37:27 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 180 @ 0.00084999 = 0.153 BTC [+]

22:37:28 mircea_popescu: it only works for boobs.

22:37:49 benkay: you gotta stop this mp

22:38:06 benkay: gonna make me think my opinions aren't useless blather

22:38:21 ThickAsThieves: it's a good point

22:38:26 pankkake: writing your opinions make you stronger

22:38:48 benkay: writing makes your thinking stronger.

22:38:58 pankkake: yes, that

22:39:04 mircea_popescu: no actually it's been quite a pleasant read, and you have good points well stated.

22:39:06 mircea_popescu: it's of value.

22:39:12 benkay: staaahp

22:39:29 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 100 @ 0.005 = 0.5 BTC

22:39:31 benkay: ty :)

22:39:55 mircea_popescu: lol

22:40:07 mircea_popescu: s;thematter, noone ever said anything nice to you ?

22:40:30 benkay: problem rather that constructive criticism is so damn hard to come by

22:40:34 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=441523.0

22:40:35 ozbot: i wiil give cryptsy a sugestion since withdrawal delay so much

22:40:39 mircea_popescu: this guy rocks

22:40:40 benkay: praise is cheap, i'm an american child

22:41:02 mircea_popescu: yes, but even us folk occasionally do things well.

22:41:04 mircea_popescu: it can happen.

22:41:18 mike_c: that guy could probably help mtgox too

22:41:24 kakobrekla: lol

22:41:26 mike_c: satoshidaemon to the rescue :)

22:41:35 kakobrekla: it be dead.

22:41:38 mircea_popescu: lol

22:42:21 truffles: Apocalyptic around?

22:42:43 mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=431273.msg4843540#msg4843540

22:42:44 ozbot: Ripped OFF by bitbet.us

22:42:46 benkay: i expect what i do to be pretty good, and for people to say 'wow that's awesome' if they're easily impressed (or paste into -assets or w/e). what i vastly prefer is "listen kid, stop blathering here here and there"

22:42:52 mircea_popescu: ALL OF YOU HATERS can go back and get your commissions from "TIC" now and STFU and stay off my honest and legit. post.

22:43:01 mircea_popescu: you payin' kako ?

22:43:05 kakobrekla: ok guys im outta here bye

22:43:26 truffles: benkay samples?

22:43:40 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu thats the dude from the customs btw.

22:43:47 pankkake: the guy is a law student according to his other posts

22:44:13 mircea_popescu: epic shit.

22:44:14 pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=354851.msg4743345#msg4743345 I just want to slap him

22:44:16 ozbot: COINBASE - Serious Issue - Reversing Bank Deposits, erroneous withdrawals, etc..

22:44:42 mircea_popescu: he could be the Consumer meets Bitcoin mascot.

22:45:03 kakobrekla: lol

22:45:53 KRS1: I hate to bring this up again.. that article "You Can Raise It But You Can't Spend It" still doesn't make sense to me.

22:46:24 mircea_popescu: KRS1 but you gotta form a question/challenge of som sort

22:46:30 mircea_popescu: else ppl will just go "well that's nice".

22:46:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00091709 = 4.7689 BTC [-]

22:46:37 truffles: haha

22:47:15 mircea_popescu: "Yahoo Voices is where your expertise and perspectives take center stage! Here you will find millions of articles, videos, and slideshows on every topic ? published by Yahoo users, just like you."

22:47:19 mike_c: i would like it make sense. what is unclear?

22:47:39 mircea_popescu: god help me. you mean yahoo is seriously going to do the whole bs usg thing in 2014 ?! after it died ?

22:47:47 benkay: mhm

22:48:05 KRS1: Companies typically launch an IPO to raise funds, along with a business plan, to bring a particular product or service to market with the intent on making a profit. Why shouldn't a company raise funds for X amount of BTC, cash it in for fiat? According to the business plan, the investment should request $X dollars for Y project. As long as the funds are matched, and everything falls

22:48:05 KRS1: into place, the rest is trivial. IPO's are not meant to capitalize and profit directly from investment money.

22:48:25 mircea_popescu: IPO's are not meant to capitalize and profit directly from investment money. << ?! what ?!

22:49:06 mike_c: in bitcoinlandia, there are 2 types of ipos

22:49:17 KRS1: That money is to be used for the particular product or service mentioned in the business plan, right? Or do companies reinvest the money raised from the IPO and make that grow?

22:49:37 mircea_popescu: in general a share placement capitalises the corp. that capital is then deployed.

22:49:48 mircea_popescu: this system whereby corps announce what they intend to use the money for is rare irl.

22:50:11 kakobrekla: more common in croudfunding shit

22:50:14 KRS1: The capital is deployed is key here.

22:50:22 kakobrekla: which is what btc ipos are

22:50:29 kakobrekla: only they are croudscamming

22:50:44 mike_c: well, so is most fiat crowdfunding too

22:50:46 KRS1: The IPO funds should not be reinvested and grown further, they should be used to fund the project mentioned in the business plan right?

22:50:56 mircea_popescu: KRS1 yes. the company, once capitalised, has a fiduciary duty to deploy capital efficiently.

22:51:03 KRS1: So a bitcoin IPO is very different than fiat IPO?

22:51:07 mircea_popescu: efficiently means it will see positive returns above the risk free rate

22:51:21 KRS1: Right, and thats what I'm having a problem with.

22:51:29 KRS1: Why can't the company cash in the BTC to fund the project?

22:51:29 mircea_popescu: aha ?

22:51:37 kakobrekla: www.coindesk.com/new-hong-kong-bitcoin-exchange-welcomes-mainland-customers/

22:51:43 mircea_popescu: because it's likely that this will result in negative returns

22:51:50 ThickAsThieves: they can

22:51:52 mircea_popescu: which is contrary to wat the company is supposed to be doing

22:52:02 ThickAsThieves: the point is way simpler than all this

22:52:17 ThickAsThieves: when you invets your bitcoins, you are selling them and buying that thing

22:52:29 ThickAsThieves: so dont expect to get more bitcoins than you put it

22:52:32 ThickAsThieves: in

22:52:51 ThickAsThieves: what mp is saying

22:52:55 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this isn't really the thing discussed tho

22:53:02 mike_c: i didn't see that statement on the neobee prospectus :)

22:53:09 kakobrekla: <ThickAsThieves> so dont expect to get more bitcoins than you put it < wait what??

22:53:09 pankkake: "HKCex will also allow customers to use deposit and withdraw funds to credit cards using a PayPal gateway" interesting. no dogecoins though

22:53:10 ThickAsThieves: is that he feels that is a major consideration

22:53:12 ThickAsThieves: for the company

22:53:20 ThickAsThieves: when to spend bitcoin

22:53:21 kakobrekla: why would ANYONE invest in ANYTHING then

22:53:35 KRS1: Once you reach yor capitalisation goal, why can't yo ujust move on and mature the IPO as discussed in the business plan? The idea is not to make money off the initial investment, its to make money according to the business plan.

22:54:16 ThickAsThieves: but that company cant outpace bitcoin appreciation in whatever currency it plays in

22:54:17 mircea_popescu: pankkake kakobrekla curious how long that lasts.

22:55:03 mircea_popescu: KRS1 ok, forget bitcoin for a moment, cause this is perhaps throwing you.

22:55:10 mircea_popescu: suppose you are running the Fuckville power plant.

22:55:10 KRS1: Who cares how much you could have made off of the initial BTC investment. As long as you've reached your investment goals, deploy the capital and fund the project.

22:55:14 mircea_popescu: this plant runs on coal.

22:55:18 mircea_popescu: you have some money to buy coal.

22:55:30 mircea_popescu: coal today costs 100 a ton.

22:55:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00091709 = 11.3719 BTC [-]

22:55:45 ThickAsThieves: you might even say that investing in a specifically bitcoin-industry business exacerbates this problem

22:55:49 mircea_popescu: they just open a new coal mine. this coal mine is larger than any one on earth, and close to your plant.

22:56:06 mircea_popescu: you figure at this juncture coal prices will likely go down, if nothing because of transport, and so forego buying coal yet.

22:56:13 mircea_popescu: next week, the coal mine installs steam power

22:56:24 mircea_popescu: you figure, this will take coal even lower. and forego again.

22:56:35 mircea_popescu: next week, they bring in mega tip top drilling tools. you again....

22:56:43 mircea_popescu: now. you nominally are in the business of buying coal,

22:56:52 mircea_popescu: nevertheless your correct decision has so far been to not buy any coal.

22:56:54 mircea_popescu: what's the problem ?

22:57:28 ThickAsThieves: youre in the wrong business

22:57:33 KRS1: yup

22:57:47 mircea_popescu: no, you're not.

22:57:51 KRS1: Go back to your directors and tell them to rewrite the business plan

22:57:55 KRS1: and IPO

22:57:58 mircea_popescu: uh.

22:58:03 ThickAsThieves: lol

22:58:12 mircea_popescu: you're in the wrong business because your business just got better ?

22:58:17 ThickAsThieves: we're going back! to the future!

22:58:18 mircea_popescu: this doesn't make sense at all.

22:58:35 KRS1: You are god damned right it doesnt =/

22:58:39 ThickAsThieves: nothing got better

22:58:43 ThickAsThieves: it just didnt get worse

22:58:48 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.12 BTC [-]

22:58:49 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.126 = 0.63 BTC [+]

22:58:50 ThickAsThieves: and since time passed, it did get worse

22:58:53 mircea_popescu: it got better, your expenses keep dropping

22:58:58 mircea_popescu: which means your margins keep improving.

22:59:07 KRS1: And investors keep wondering why they invested so much.

22:59:23 mike_c: as opposed to the investors in the company that DID keep buying coal and lost a shitload of money

22:59:29 mircea_popescu: right.

22:59:32 KRS1: At the club house they are getting laughed at by their colleagues.

22:59:42 kakobrekla: lmao

22:59:51 kakobrekla: is this cartoon network?

22:59:57 mircea_popescu: it seems so

23:00:05 ThickAsThieves: why arent more startups proclaiming to be 100% bitcoin?

23:00:09 KRS1: Their wives are ready to leave them and even the security guard at their estate is giving them better investment tips.

23:00:15 ThickAsThieves: i'll start a record label

23:00:17 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves because the club house is mostly populated by retards.

23:00:35 mike_c: krs1, wait a year. the clubhouse will have an enitrely different population.

23:00:36 ThickAsThieves: and i wont deal with anyone unless its bitcoin

23:00:47 ThickAsThieves: wanna be a vendor? whats your wallet addy?

23:00:49 ThickAsThieves: etc

23:00:50 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

23:00:57 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves sounds like s.mg for sound.

23:01:11 mircea_popescu: if people were actually willing to pay for music this may be a brilliant idea.

23:01:27 KRS1: So if we all invest in a company that needs $100 dollars, using bitcoin, as long as the $100 dollar investment goal has been reached, what is wrong with executing the rest of the business operations?

23:01:31 ThickAsThieves: before i found bitcoin that was the plan a label called Thick As Thieves

23:01:45 ThickAsThieves: maybe i mix em

23:01:55 KRS1: Its perfectly fine to cash in btc for fiat at the time because $X dollar investment has been reached to launch business operations.

23:01:57 mircea_popescu: KRS1 that you don't want to buy a house on fire at the list price.

23:02:07 mircea_popescu: let them either put the fire out or else let the fire run out and see what it's worth

23:02:21 KRS1: You have to purchase at some point though..time is money.

23:02:23 mike_c: around we go. what is wrong with it is that in a year that company will be worth $200 and the bitcoins it raised will be worth $2,000

23:03:01 mircea_popescu: jurov http://explo.yt/post/2014/01/31/MPEx%3A-The-Missing-Manual-7-Bonds-and-MPOE-stock << pretty good shit. nice and thorough.

23:03:13 KRS1: mice_c: Investment funds are requested using an IPO based on a business plan. If you never execute it and expecting your capital to fund the business, thats a big problem.

23:03:25 benkay: that'd be because i wrote it, mircea_popescu

23:03:35 mircea_popescu: benkay wait, wut ?

23:03:35 ThickAsThieves: maybe this could be the first charge of the Bitcoin Republik, we make a 100% Pure Bitcoin badge

23:03:47 benkay: ;)

23:04:02 jurov: benkay, maybe you wrote it and you will get paid

23:04:10 ThickAsThieves: any person or entity that only deals in bitcoins

23:04:11 jurov: but it was wildly inaccurate at places

23:04:17 mike_c: yes, it's not that companies using their bitcoins are doing something "wrong", just stupid.

23:04:22 truffles: lotta bitcoiners straddling the fence, makes me doubt their faith

23:04:22 mircea_popescu: lol jurov is such a capitalist :D

23:04:34 jurov: btw, part 8 futures is there too

23:04:36 benkay: there were mistakes in the pricing examples.

23:04:41 deadweasel: mind you all, i failed at it first.

23:04:57 benkay: scuse me - i made mistakes in the pricing examples.

23:05:04 KRS1: If the market crumbles on bitcoin and you never executed your business plan and angry investors everywhere want your head then what?

23:05:19 truffles: hide

23:05:43 KRS1: This is why I think that article is bunk.

23:05:46 deadweasel: change usernames

23:05:47 ThickAsThieves: well it was part of the plan right?

23:05:53 KRS1: Well written, but has no logical basis.

23:05:58 mircea_popescu: KRS1 but looky, what officers do is make calls.

23:06:05 mircea_popescu: some of them make good calls, some of them make bad calls.

23:06:06 ThickAsThieves: just state in your plan your bitcoin strat

23:06:10 mircea_popescu: this is the substance of the ipo

23:06:17 mircea_popescu: not some "business plan", that's not how ipos work

23:06:25 mircea_popescu: that's how board meetings work, where the board selects ceos

23:06:51 KRS1: Its an intriguing problem, but if the IPO is never launched and the business keeps investing the initial investment funds, which is risky, then this is idiotic imo.

23:07:08 mircea_popescu: i guess in retrospect this is yet another one of those places where naive "financiers" of the glbse troop confused discting things cause well, what did they know

23:07:20 kakobrekla: KRS1 if you dont want bitcoin exposure, GET THE FUCK OUT OF BITCOIN

23:07:35 ThickAsThieves: so mp, he has a point you should elaborate on

23:07:40 mircea_popescu: KRS1 well sure. but in principle, yeah, if you don't trust a unit of account it's saner for you not to hold it at all

23:07:41 KRS1: kakobrekla I think you are missing what I'm saying..sorry if I wasn't clear..

23:07:50 mircea_popescu: than to invest in corps that use it but have foreign assets.

23:07:52 ThickAsThieves: what specifically IS your recommendation on how a bitcoin-funded op spends

23:08:12 mircea_popescu: for instance : if you think the dollar is going to shit, you're better off buying euro, than buying Ford shares on the thinking that ford does business in yurp

23:08:23 mircea_popescu: at least grosso modo speaking

23:08:23 benkay: hey mircea_popescu Ubitex looks like it beat Skepsidyne to listing: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6838.0

23:08:48 KRS1: ThickAsThieves: My recommendation is simple...if the IPO requests $X amount of dollars to fund project Y, convert BTC to fiat and execute the business plan accordingly to yeield project Y. Simple. Don't reinvest investment dollars. Thats stupid.

23:08:55 mircea_popescu: o hey yes. benkay. "Shares are not securities." lolzy

23:09:32 kakobrekla: they are indeed insecurities, mostly.

23:09:36 mike_c: ThickAsThieves: a btc-funded op should spend its money to make more bitcoin. like to bankroll just-dice.

23:09:38 ThickAsThieves: like if S.MG has a fiat expense, what, youre gonna rob shareholders?

23:09:55 mircea_popescu: KRS1 "if the IPO requests $X amount of dollars to fund project Y" contradicts " convert BTC to fiat"

23:10:36 ThickAsThieves: we're kinda saying all spending of bitcoin is bad business, right?

23:10:54 mike_c: yes

23:11:08 mircea_popescu: we're saying that the quick increase in the btc rate puts responsible, competent ceos in the position where they forego fiat deployments

23:11:13 mircea_popescu: this is a major problem for bitcoin atm.

23:11:14 KRS1: But you have to spend it to make anything happen.

23:11:26 ThickAsThieves: atm, or forever?

23:11:27 mircea_popescu: no argument. which is why it's a problem.

23:11:34 mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves hopefully it settles down.

23:11:36 mike_c: seems like s.nsa built cardano with 2% of their ipo funds

23:12:06 ThickAsThieves: such a waste!

23:12:06 mircea_popescu: mike_c well, there's only prototyping for one board reported yet, and moreover most of the cost is engineering time, which obviously doesn't show

23:12:18 KRS1: You aren't launching an IPO in hopes to do business to reinvest investment funds. You are launching an IPO to do business according to the business plan of whatever business you are going into. BTC is irrelevant.

23:12:53 mike_c: yes, it doesn't show. but that's the point. you don't necessarily have to spend a lot to make progress.

23:12:53 mircea_popescu: seems a misrepresentation of what an ipo is.

23:12:57 pankkake: I don't know many businesses that end up doing what was planned at first

23:13:08 kakobrekla: KRS1 a bunch of companies have a bunch of people dealing nothing but with FX risks

23:13:09 pankkake: I mean, not exactly

23:13:15 kakobrekla: which are way smaller there than here.

23:13:31 kakobrekla: think about that.

23:13:47 KRS1: I must be out of my mind for thinking logically here and believing an IPO and a business plan should work together to do exactly what they fucking say they are going to do.

23:13:54 mircea_popescu: you are, yes.

23:14:03 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60000001 BTC [-]

23:14:08 mircea_popescu: you're basically proceeding into some sort of glbse/kickfunder extrapolation as if it were a thing

23:14:11 mircea_popescu: they're marginal.

23:14:20 mike_c: krs1, that is simply incorrect.

23:14:41 mircea_popescu: da fuck was tha tthing called anyway, fundkicker, gofuckme, what.

23:14:44 mike_c: no investor in an early-stage company expects them to "follow the business plan"

23:14:52 KRS1: kickstarter?

23:14:55 mircea_popescu: that

23:16:03 mike_c: kickstarter is a lot like btc bizness. 99:1 bullshit but there are some gems.

23:16:05 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.2 = 0.6 BTC [+]

23:16:29 mircea_popescu: right, but that's more like a "daddy, gimme some dough to buy beer" sort of venue

23:16:45 mircea_popescu: in which case i suppose if you take the beermoney and buy pot daddy has the recourse of wtf, i gave you that twenny for beer not for pot.

23:17:08 mircea_popescu: an ipo is more like, i am a carpenter, give me money to carpent. the investor has no recourse as to whether the carpenter buys a hammer or a saw,

23:17:10 mircea_popescu: and when exactly.

23:17:57 mircea_popescu: in short, being an actual ceo of an actual corp which does an actual ipo, you are a professional.

23:18:19 mircea_popescu: being a pseudo-ceo of a pseudo-corp which does a kickstarter thing, you are a whatever, etsy service representative.

23:19:50 benkay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8733.0;all

23:19:52 ozbot: luke-jr is a scammer - he renegged on a bitcoin futures contract

23:20:18 mircea_popescu: in a more wtf line of inquiry, check out this bet that just closed :

23:20:18 mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/246/chinas-gdp-growth-to-exceed-8-any-quarter/

23:20:25 ozbot: BitBet - China's GDP growth to exceed 8% any quarter in 2013

23:20:30 mircea_popescu: the datasource (china's stat bureau) has pretty much given up on publishing data

23:20:34 mircea_popescu: last is q1 2013.

23:20:39 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla any idea on wtf we do ?

23:21:01 mircea_popescu: benkay see, your mind's enriching already.

23:22:09 benkay: but not my pocket

23:22:40 mircea_popescu: generally your pocket starts enriching once impotence starts showing up

23:22:46 mircea_popescu: at least that's what i find

23:23:30 benkay: HURRY UP AND WILT, BONER

23:23:38 mircea_popescu: lol

23:25:14 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 77 @ 0.00570329 = 0.4392 BTC [-] {3}

23:25:33 mircea_popescu: "Anyone who likes Bitcoin really shouldn?t want any new currencies to be created."

23:25:44 benkay: need moar coins. anyone have any bonerbgone?

23:25:45 mircea_popescu: derp. anyone knows this daniel fellow from the mises circle website ?

23:26:15 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]

23:27:28 benkay: i kinda take the opposite line on that one - anyone who likes bitcoin should be pleased at the cambrian derpsplosion of altchains

23:28:33 mircea_popescu: indeed.

23:30:19 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4845 @ 0.00009649 = 0.4675 BTC [+] {2}

23:30:20 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 20000 @ 0.005 = 100 BTC

23:30:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC

23:32:21 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00084999 = 0.1275 BTC [+]

23:32:29 benkay: holy shit one had to run GLBSE in a VM?! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12001.0

23:33:03 mircea_popescu: um

23:33:17 mircea_popescu: i don't think you realise how rare deidcated servers were in 2011.

23:33:59 benkay: uh

23:34:05 KRS1: that shit started to really change in 2009

23:34:25 benkay: i'm just a little astonished that one booted a vm to trade these securities

23:34:36 KRS1: bah nothin wrong with that imo

23:35:24 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13499919 BTC [-]

23:35:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.126 BTC [+]

23:36:02 mircea_popescu: https://coinbase.com/checkouts/c16886a2ff866480977fde7c18ce0edf

23:36:02 ozbot: Pay With Bitcoin

23:36:12 mircea_popescu: o look, coinbase is trying to steal bitpay's lunch

23:36:20 KRS1: mircea_popescu: back to that- good analogy btw heh

23:36:25 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC

23:36:44 mircea_popescu: worthless businesses built on worthless models with no defensibility whatsoever by worthless ycombinated minds.

23:37:04 mike_c: coinbase been pushing that hard. offering $1m in free transactions to business that sign up with them.

23:37:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11510 @ 0.0009157 = 10.5397 BTC [-]

23:37:28 mircea_popescu: i noticed they take no fees

23:37:33 mircea_popescu: bye bye bitpay revenue for q1.

23:37:37 mircea_popescu: what did they make, 300k q4 ?

23:38:06 mircea_popescu: 287.84 of which out of businesses that did less than $1m historically.

23:38:59 mircea_popescu: KRS1 there's a more subtle problem than the spending bitcoin thing.

23:39:17 mircea_popescu: all i have to do all day is sit here and admire how people fail. i don't even have to do anything at all. just sit pat.

23:39:26 mircea_popescu: now that's an outrage.

23:39:43 pankkake: isn't coinbase usa only?

23:39:49 mike_c: i don't think that will last. surely competant competition will emerge at some point.

23:39:52 mircea_popescu: that bitcoin not spent is better than bitcoin spent we could perhaps live with.

23:40:05 mircea_popescu: mike_c before or after btc stabilizes ?

23:40:12 mike_c: hm

23:40:13 mircea_popescu: obviously eventually time fixes all problems.

23:40:16 mircea_popescu: but you see what i mean.

23:40:27 mike_c: yeah, you've got time :)

23:40:40 mircea_popescu: pankkake even if it is, for what good reason would it stay that way ?

23:41:30 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 38 @ 0.00570214 = 0.2167 BTC [-]

23:41:52 kakobrekla: mircea_popescu feeless refund

23:41:52 mircea_popescu: shit. AND i finished the cognac

23:42:02 mircea_popescu: fucking friday night. nao what ;/

23:42:07 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i think so yeah.

23:42:31 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.19995 = 0.3999 BTC [+] {2}

23:42:32 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00091334 = 9.4987 BTC [-] {2}

23:42:37 mircea_popescu: can't hold the btc hostage till china. that may be 55 years.

23:42:47 benkay: mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14434.0

23:43:00 mircea_popescu: lol

23:43:29 mircea_popescu: ftr, she was active for like two weeks

23:43:40 mircea_popescu: because even then the forum was so derptarded...

23:43:51 benkay: i imagine she had a business to run!

23:44:02 mircea_popescu: http://mistresskang.com/ <<

23:44:03 ozbot: Mistress Kang

23:44:32 benkay: i see she's doing the nikki minaj routine

23:44:33 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.126 BTC [+]

23:45:25 benkay: heh

23:45:26 benkay: http://fortressnyc.com/images/uploads/279/008.jpg

23:45:34 mircea_popescu: the problem with vaudeville is that you're stuck mimicking mainstream

23:45:49 mircea_popescu: anyway. never cared for her boobjob.

23:46:13 benkay: was going to say

23:46:58 pankkake: oh they had kiko wu! *pornstalgia*

23:49:39 KRS1: mircea_popescu: goes back to something I've noticed as I get older, most fuckwits in business or whatever it is they do, barely do it right. They're usually off putting their efforts in farting or dancing or whatever it is they do other than their jobs.

23:50:00 mircea_popescu: true.

23:51:40 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00090902 = 11.0446 BTC [-]

23:51:44 mircea_popescu: i can't believe todd actually went to work for mastercoin.

23:52:27 pankkake: they have lot of monies

23:52:43 pankkake: with bounties like "10 btc for css"

23:53:37 benkay: wat

23:53:51 mircea_popescu: even so.

23:53:54 benkay: i can get some css done for 10 btc

23:54:19 pankkake: they're not litteraly offering that, don't get your hopes up :)

23:54:31 jurov: benkay pm

23:55:05 benkay: jurov my irc is apparently broken

23:55:19 jurov: oh you can't pm?

23:55:29 benkay: apparently not

23:55:47 jurov: i just need your btc addy

23:55:48 benkay: nope.

23:56:26 benkay: do you mind holding payment for a day?

23:56:27 jurov: and reminding me if i didn't pay you the first installment

23:56:34 jurov: not mind :)

23:56:38 benkay: k thanks

23:56:48 jurov: ;;raed benkay

23:56:48 gribble: Error: "raed" is not a valid command.

23:56:51 jurov: ;;rated benkay

23:56:52 gribble: You have not yet rated user benkay

23:56:57 benkay: i'm balls deep in btctalk shit atm

23:57:23 jurov: i see

23:57:44 kakobrekla: i want half, cause of the grep logs idea

23:57:49 mircea_popescu: ^

23:58:04 benkay: this is not for 'securities' review, boys

23:58:06 mircea_popescu: jurov how much do you owe ? we'll take .75 btc for all teh great ideaz

23:58:14 benkay: payment for mpex missing manual

23:58:15 kakobrekla: i still want half

23:58:16 ThickAsThieves: working on some text for Altcoin:

23:58:17 ThickAsThieves: http://dpaste.com/1579602/

23:58:17 assbot: 123!

23:58:17 ozbot: dpaste: #1579602: The Real Altcoin, by tat.investments@gmail.com

23:58:17 assbot: 123!

23:58:22 kakobrekla: lol

23:58:27 mircea_popescu: lol

23:58:51 jurov: you are buying my debt from benaky or what?

23:59:03 mircea_popescu: no, im buying your debt to benkay from you

23:59:06 mircea_popescu: like teh usd does it

23:59:14 mircea_popescu: usg*

23:59:52 benkay: wat

23:59:55 jurov: oh, bailout? no problem

23:59:58 benkay: just out of curiosity why?