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Transcript for 31-03-2015, 1628 lines:

00:05:46 asciilifeform: l0ldustry

00:12:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 166372 @ 0.00026565 = 44.1967 BTC [-] {2}

00:14:04 *: asciilifeform wonders where everybody went... reading the sr mega-turd? hacking on pogotron? beating off rabid weasels ?

00:14:19 nubbins`: ^ 2nd

00:14:36 nubbins`: where are the nand read/write utils located in new turdel?

00:14:43 asciilifeform: in the path

00:15:02 asciilifeform: # which nandwrite

00:15:02 asciilifeform: /usr/sbin/nandwrite

00:15:08 asciilifeform: nanddump is also there

00:15:11 nubbins`: a-ha, found em.

00:15:25 nubbins`: okay, so that confirms it

00:15:34 asciilifeform: confirms what

00:15:45 *: nubbins` has baked his own v2 pogotron from source

00:15:51 asciilifeform: congrats nubbins` !!

00:15:55 nubbins`: tyvm! :D

00:16:11 nubbins`: gonna sha512 my tarballs now & post to ml

00:17:36 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, nubbins`, danielpbarron et al: is there any interest in the pheature i discussed in october (?) where one pogo would deflower another, virginal unit ?

00:17:41 asciilifeform: through crossover cable

00:17:53 asciilifeform: (i do not presently know if the nic on pogo has auto-crossover)

00:18:00 mircea_popescu: maybe.

00:18:39 asciilifeform: this would involve, at the minimum, the 'male' starting up a dhcp server prior to the 'female' being powered up

00:18:50 asciilifeform: this process would have to be triggered in some way.

00:18:54 asciilifeform: that's the part i got stuck on

00:18:59 asciilifeform: what's the trigger ?

00:20:19 asciilifeform: alternatively:

00:20:49 asciilifeform: 'male' pogo sitting on normal lan with one of more 'females' could be manually triggered to spoodge, using the telnet shell and a util that takes argument of female's ip

00:21:38 thestringpuller: i come back to computers having sex?!?

00:21:41 danielpbarron: ;;isitdown wiki.bitcoin-assets.com

00:21:48 gribble: wiki.bitcoin-assets.com is down

00:22:00 danielpbarron: ;;isitdown log.bitcoin-assets.com

00:22:04 asciilifeform: (what would be involved: it triggers the backdoor - see log - then transfers over nandwrite; then payload; then fires)

00:22:04 gribble: log.bitcoin-assets.com is down

00:22:12 asciilifeform: ^ works here

00:22:18 danielpbarron: the search is also not up-to-date

00:22:41 mircea_popescu: you can use log1 ad interim

00:22:44 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^

00:23:00 danielpbarron: actually ya, log. loads eventually; wiki doesn't though

00:23:06 mircea_popescu: (fwiw, i see log. but intermittently0

00:27:33 danielpbarron: search won't find results past this line -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079336

00:27:33 assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 05:43:56; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i might get to it tomorrow night

00:31:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96650 @ 0.00025994 = 25.1232 BTC [-]

00:31:11 nubbins`: the upside of this is that you could turdify a whole stack of pogos at once

00:38:52 nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> what's the trigger ? <<< hold reset while powering up unit to boot it in "erect" mode?

00:41:53 jurov: what, the pogo won't have any management interface beyond that button?

00:42:28 jurov: shat if i want to check how many connections/ block height it has?

00:43:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58650 @ 0.00026007 = 15.2531 BTC [+] {2}

00:45:42 nubbins`: morse code in lights

00:46:43 nubbins`: mp will say that if you wanna check how many connections, throw it out and buy a new one

00:46:48 nubbins`: what do you want, it's $19 :D

00:46:59 trinque: heh, there are printers with embedded menu systems kinda like that

00:46:59 trinque: but they at least have a place for output

00:49:13 mircea_popescu: omg the haters

00:53:27 mod6: haters_everywhere.jpg

00:54:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079598 << but force 66 1/3 is so much lulzier

00:54:49 assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 16:42:29; mike_c: BingoBoingo: see NYT article, they (correctly) just call him mr. force.

00:55:55 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079604 << well, they could imaginarily take it. there's no limits to imagination!

00:55:55 assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 16:45:05; mike_c: because if it was actually "sizable".. and they didn't get it back..

00:56:28 jurov: don't forget it's not $19 for me. at least 31 euro

00:56:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079610 << isn't this also the dude with the weirdo positions re gavincoins ?

00:56:42 assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 16:46:05; assbot: Bitcoin's Rugged Individualism | Satoshi Nakamoto Institute ... ( http://bit.ly/1ErlcWa )

00:57:02 mircea_popescu: that he then accidentally forgot to either softlaunch here or defend afterwards ?

00:57:32 mircea_popescu: jurov stands to reason that if one wants to run a devel pogo they'd run the devel pogo rather than the cement pogo ? or am i missing something ?

00:57:54 jurov: "how do i check it's working" "nah, shut up"

00:58:45 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> that he then accidentally forgot to either softlaunch here or defend afterwards ? << Yes

00:59:22 jurov: ^^ applies to cement pogo, too

00:59:28 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski it's not clear to me facebook is a "technology". if every tripod/myspace clone with an advertising budget were a technology then you should probably avoid tap water.

00:59:29 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:59:34 asciilifeform: jurov: pogo won't have any management interface beyond that button? << that button (ought to) spawn a telnetd with root shell. what more management could one want ??!

00:59:42 mircea_popescu: jurov you could connect to it.

00:59:47 mircea_popescu: as a node i mean.

00:59:58 jurov: ah i missed that.

01:01:09 jurov: that solves the triggering of male pogo

01:01:11 asciilifeform: (for anyone who slept through pogotron/pogotron-v2, the current version spawns telnetd by default on every boot)

01:01:42 nubbins`: <+jurov> don't forget it's not $19 for me. at least 31 euro << $35cad for me!

01:02:03 asciilifeform: ... and will approach $maxint as they run out.

01:02:25 nubbins`: wholesale guy said he might increase from $20 to $30 soon because of recent interest, in the meantime

01:02:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33176 @ 0.00025738 = 8.5388 BTC [-]

01:02:40 nubbins`: so if anyone feels like getting some more, maybe we should pool our resources and get a buttload at once

01:02:50 nubbins`: bbl die siedler von catan!

01:03:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109003 @ 0.00025623 = 27.9298 BTC [-] {2}

01:04:35 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113454 @ 0.00025819 = 29.2927 BTC [+] {2}

01:06:20 asciilifeform: if somebody wants to get a rail car full of'em, the time to do so is probably now

01:06:35 asciilifeform: and not after another month or three of 'recent interest'

01:07:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5754 @ 0.00026052 = 1.499 BTC [+]

01:07:57 asciilifeform: esp. since we are not the only ones who can use 'buildroot' etc.

01:08:05 asciilifeform: it is all posted publicly after all.

01:08:37 thestringpuller: a railcar sounds expensive

01:09:20 asciilifeform: costs probably less than first class air to istanbul on one outing of mircea_popescu and his pets

01:10:34 thestringpuller: that's like 3 years living expenses for me...

01:12:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53000 @ 0.00025881 = 13.7169 BTC [-]

01:19:34 asciilifeform: the inevitable 'price of open source' is that we made pogo suddenly considerably more appetizing for just about everybody.

01:19:51 asciilifeform: even folks who just want a nas without proprietary turdware

01:21:09 thestringpuller: nas makes me think of the rapper

01:21:52 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80487 @ 0.00025707 = 20.6908 BTC [-] {2}

01:22:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109213 @ 0.00025477 = 27.8242 BTC [-] {3}

01:23:07 decimation: asciilifeform: you could probably run nfs

01:23:11 decimation: maybe even with kerberos

01:23:19 thestringpuller: ick kerberos...

01:23:38 decimation: it's really annoying to configure

01:23:51 thestringpuller: and even more painful to configure "right"

01:24:02 thestringpuller: it blows up all the time from my experience.

01:24:23 decimation: one of the problems is that 99% of the installations use winblows for the key server

01:28:33 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't think that's so bad, really. let that everybody hack on them

01:29:39 decimation: re: discussion about ntp < I thought the conclusion of that thread is that the timestamp of the latest incoming bitcoin transation ought to determine the clock time

01:29:50 decimation: or something like that

01:30:59 mircea_popescu: right

01:31:12 mircea_popescu: ;;seen brendafdez

01:31:12 gribble: brendafdez was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 2 hours, 25 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <brendafdez> mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering.

01:33:04 mircea_popescu: !rate brendafdez Highly intelligent and utterly self-destructive. Will stick around for as long as the former appears to mask the latter.

01:33:04 assbot: Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10.

01:33:08 mircea_popescu: !rate brendafdez -1 Highly intelligent and utterly self-destructive. Will stick around for as long as the former appears to mask the latter.

01:33:08 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0b91a325c61ae482

01:33:28 mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.brendafdez.-1:99c85240d655d8874bfc63e85c4d96eab4222b144bd7b518ea6a0ffbd3a9fac7

01:33:28 assbot: Successfully updated the rating for brendafdez from 1 to -1 with note: Highly intelligent and utterly self-destructive. Will stick around for as long as the former appears to mask the latter.

01:36:06 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079687 << why exactly would the guy "hafta pay fines" anyway ?

01:36:06 assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 17:26:44; fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/9sxBf51.png

01:38:05 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079748 << very different people, very different us.

01:38:05 assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 17:36:51; ascii_field: as it was for certain mafia dons

01:38:15 mircea_popescu: at the time, the united states was like, a world leader.

01:38:19 mod6: ;;later tell funkenstein I don't think you're in assbot's WoT, see about regestering with assbot. http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

01:38:22 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:38:52 danielpbarron: he is with an underscore

01:39:16 mircea_popescu: !gettrust funkenstein_

01:39:16 assbot: is not registered in WoT.

01:39:22 mircea_popescu: that didn't help.

01:39:38 danielpbarron: the woodcoin guy right?

01:39:45 mircea_popescu: log yeah

01:40:03 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079771 << cops helped me break into my own house once.

01:40:03 assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 17:41:02; nubbins`: did i mention that i saw a cop help someone break into a house earlier?

01:40:27 mircea_popescu: three hours with the fucking ram because apparently no fucking blacksmith existed anymore.

01:40:57 danielpbarron: !gettrust funkenstein_

01:40:59 assbot: Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user funkenstein_: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/danielpbarron/funkenstein_ | http://w.b-a.link/user/funkenstein_

01:41:21 *: danielpbarron slaps assbot around a bit with a large extra space

01:41:39 mircea_popescu: hory hseit

01:41:56 mircea_popescu: !gettrust mircea_popescu

01:41:56 assbot: and are not registered in WoT.

01:42:11 mircea_popescu: !gettrust mircea_popescu

01:42:11 assbot: and are not registered in WoT.

01:42:21 mircea_popescu: !gettrust derp herp and mircea_popescu

01:42:21 assbot: derp and herp are not registered in WoT.

01:42:26 mircea_popescu: ahaha

01:42:34 mircea_popescu: !gettrust derp herp mircea_popescu and yourmom

01:42:34 assbot: derp and herp are not registered in WoT.

01:53:47 mats: http://jolmos.blogspot.com.es/2015/03/tls-v12-sigalgs-remote-crash-cve-2015.html

01:53:49 assbot: software security blog: TLS v1.2 sigalgs remote crash (CVE-2015-0291) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HYXCRw )

01:56:38 mod6: !gettrust 6B0D10D1878DE25B4DA2695AB2B6360488298AB6

01:56:38 assbot: 6B0D10D1878DE25B4DA2695AB2B6360488298AB6 is not registered in WoT.

01:57:00 mod6: !gettrust funkenstein_

01:57:01 assbot: Trust relationship from user mod6 to user funkenstein_: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/mod6/funkenstein_ | http://w.b-a.link/user/funkenstein_

01:59:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 181161 @ 0.00025414 = 46.0403 BTC [-] {2}

02:00:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16710 @ 0.00025362 = 4.238 BTC [-]

02:05:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140400 @ 0.00025361 = 35.6068 BTC [-] {2}

02:06:18 mod6: thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000078.html

02:19:42 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> three hours with the fucking ram because apparently no fucking blacksmith existed anymore. << l0l, mircea_popescu got a free penetration test from enemy

02:21:28 danielpbarron: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot

02:21:48 mircea_popescu: this was long ago

02:22:29 asciilifeform: timestamp of the latest incoming bitcoin transation ought to determine the clock time << this promises to be very gnarly and even non-monotonic unless we're very careful

02:22:39 mircea_popescu: not tx

02:22:46 mircea_popescu: block. blocks are the timekeeping device

02:23:33 asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... brendafdez -1 Highly intelligent and utterly self-destructive << wai wat, was this in-channel? iirc this person simply vanished into thin air without so much as a squeak

02:23:58 mircea_popescu: just my impression.

02:24:55 asciilifeform: in other news, i had a most peculiar '1024 chickens'-flavoured thought -

02:25:15 asciilifeform: small multicopters could be built which tesselate.

02:25:26 asciilifeform: lifting whatever size load as one wishes, like balloons

02:25:47 mircea_popescu: http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/60811418.jpg

02:25:49 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EX2Mr5 )

02:26:05 asciilifeform: this is simpler than it sounds because they are traditionally built in such a way that operator sets desired angle and motors 'bang-bang' with pde dampening until it is achieved

02:26:16 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> just my impression. << Seems right for an unexplained workweek long disappearance without warning, right after getting things to do

02:26:39 asciilifeform: the choppers will snap together like children's 'lego' and share control and power bus

02:26:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's also much harder than it sounds, because of all sorts of scale effwects

02:27:07 asciilifeform: one could also, presumably, have 'tiles' which only carry battery (or only thrusters) depending on whether endurance is at a premium

02:27:10 mircea_popescu: meanwhile a 20mw powerplant is 1-200k or some shit.

02:27:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's the thing, they have excellent behaviour when perturbed

02:27:46 asciilifeform: i recall kicking diametric's chopper in mid-air and it only wobbled a bit.

02:28:14 decimation: asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV5vtd4

02:28:15 assbot: A Swarm of Nano Quadrotors - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1EX33dG )

02:28:25 asciilifeform: swarms are old news

02:28:32 asciilifeform: and yes, we all saw that one

02:28:52 decimation: ah I see you want them to physically connect together

02:28:55 asciilifeform: aha

02:29:02 asciilifeform: share power and control bus

02:29:11 asciilifeform: buy as many as needed to carry load.

02:29:19 asciilifeform: like balloons.

02:29:39 decimation: how many to make https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-64_Skycrane

02:29:41 assbot: Sikorsky S-64 Skycrane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1EX3eFI )

02:29:46 asciilifeform: also gives a degree of redundancy

02:30:04 asciilifeform: go shoot a machine with 8192 airscrews of which only 512 are needed

02:30:05 asciilifeform: or the like.

02:30:13 asciilifeform: (each 3 having own battery!)

02:30:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a simple exercise : given each element applies a force F on a random vector, calculate the shear force - probability function for a string of 100 such.

02:30:30 decimation: I wonder if there is some kind of diminishing returns with having so many rotors in the same area

02:30:41 asciilifeform: decimation: not if far enough apart

02:30:46 decimation: yeah

02:30:48 asciilifeform: how far - is for the folks who actually want to try this

02:30:54 asciilifeform: in life.

02:31:08 decimation: they would need some kind of rods to form a web

02:31:26 mircea_popescu: the sykorsky is ~7mw

02:31:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only 'random' to the extent calculations are off (plus wind, vibration)

02:31:57 mircea_popescu: right. just as a mechanical engineering problem.

02:32:04 mircea_popescu: soon enough you gotta make your bots out of titanium.

02:32:17 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except that the error does not compound.

02:32:24 asciilifeform: any given point in the 'fabric' is equivalent.

02:32:37 asciilifeform: other than the graph edges.

02:32:53 mircea_popescu: i have my doubts.

02:33:05 mircea_popescu: seems exactly the sort of thing to get freak compounding nonsense in.

02:33:07 asciilifeform: draw, see.

02:33:33 asciilifeform: i'd build it in such a way as to let it jettison dead tiles, too

02:33:37 asciilifeform: why let them drag machine down.

02:34:10 asciilifeform: (in peacetime this may be a bad idea, they will fall on someone's head)

02:35:42 asciilifeform: anyway, i'm not certain what the point of this is, in practice, but having failed to find any traces of it existing, thought it fit to post here.

02:36:20 mircea_popescu: the problem is tho : the electric machines suck specifically for being electric. this isn't fixed by assembling more of them.

02:36:33 mircea_popescu: the golden standard (carnot cycle) is too big generally, rather than too small.

02:37:04 decimation: re: carnot < one of the mistakes louis xvi made was not recognizing and promoting him

02:37:12 decimation: 'welfare for nobles' displaced competence

02:38:05 decimation: except the Carnot cycle guy was his son, I was mistaken

02:38:07 mircea_popescu: decimation he was born either just before or jsut after revolution

02:38:16 mircea_popescu: nothing much left of the king by the time he was 16.

02:38:47 decimation: carnot the father was born 1756

02:38:57 decimation: err 1753

02:39:33 mircea_popescu: you mean lazare ?!

02:39:41 decimation: yeah

02:41:08 mircea_popescu: what was to recognise/promote ? guy was iirc a military officer with interests in mechanics.

02:42:02 BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/federal-agents-who-persecuted-ulbricht-arrested/#comment-16087

02:42:03 assbot: Federal Agents Who Persecuted Ulbricht Arrested | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1EX4Nnj )

02:42:03 decimation: well according to the history to which I have been listening, he was fustrated by his inability to advance beyond a junior officer

02:42:51 mircea_popescu: mebbe he was, i have nfi

02:43:18 decimation: and part of the reason why he couldn't advance was because the ministry's reforms of the army tended to favor derpy nobles over young talent

02:43:19 BingoBoingo: Comment delivered unto us http://qntra.net/bundles/forceunlawfulseizure.txt

02:43:20 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1EX51L6 )

02:44:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111239 @ 0.0002535 = 28.1991 BTC [-] {3}

02:46:05 decimation: re: Freiherr Hammerstein-Equord's quote < Yes, USG specializes in promoting the stupid and industrious

02:47:08 mircea_popescu: quite.

02:47:40 decimation: http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/10/28/241295755/a-churchill-quote-that-u-s-politicians-will-never-surrender < highly related

02:47:42 assbot: A Churchill 'Quote' That U.S. Politicians Will Never Surrender : It's All Politics : NPR ... ( http://bit.ly/1EX5CMF )

02:47:51 decimation: "As King put it: "Winston Churchill once famously observed that Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.""

02:49:41 mircea_popescu: the space of everything else's sadly incomputable.

02:50:14 decimation: yeah, that quote seems dubious

02:51:05 decimation: Freiherr Hammerstein-Equord's 'method' (if true) built one of the greatest professional land armies the world has every seen

02:52:02 decimation: but ultimately fell to USSR & USA's Levée en masse

02:52:16 asciilifeform: i will now take the liberty of calling the hypothetical machine 'freyacopter'

02:52:24 asciilifeform: (is there anyone who doesn't understand why ?)

02:52:41 asciilifeform: and no, it doesn't make storage battery suck less

02:53:10 asciilifeform: but i came up with it for a reason. sat the other day for a long time thinking of mircea_popescu's observation that 'industrial product is crud' and the only place where industry wins is - scale

02:54:00 asciilifeform: 50,000 birthday balloons are cheaper than airplane. but not very much use to fly. on the other hand, if a freyacopter tile lifts, e.g., 500g...

02:54:32 asciilifeform: 50 of'em will lift a boy

02:54:40 asciilifeform: 100 - a man

02:54:56 asciilifeform: (thin man)

02:55:18 asciilifeform: and scale, scale. (of production, that is)

02:56:03 mircea_popescu: how much do you pay per bithday balloon ?

02:56:17 decimation: asciilifeform: after Gerhard Frey?

02:56:37 asciilifeform: nein

02:56:41 asciilifeform: freya, with her housecat chariot.

02:57:01 *: asciilifeform thought it was obvious

02:57:31 mircea_popescu: some very simple math : cheapo chinese copter toy = $100. cessna, $100k. cessna powerplant = 100kW. chinese copter toy = 10W

02:57:36 mircea_popescu: you're short a degree of magnitude.

02:57:46 *: decimation 's schooling failed to include Norse myth

02:57:49 asciilifeform: 'cessna' lifts a good bit of own weight

02:57:54 asciilifeform: compared to pilot

02:57:58 mircea_popescu: so will your toys.

02:58:17 decimation: two 180 lb men + full feul for a cessna 152

02:58:21 decimation: fuel

02:58:26 BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch

02:58:39 asciilifeform: at any rate, everyone is missing the point

02:58:44 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/march-bitcoin-foundation-update/

02:58:47 asciilifeform: cessna is piss-poor for economy of scale

02:58:50 mircea_popescu: the degree of magnitude should be the other way.

02:58:54 asciilifeform: because it doesn't break into 10,000 identical pieces

02:59:00 asciilifeform: each of which is a toy

02:59:08 decimation: asciilifeform: except cessna is more efficient at moving horizontally for distance

02:59:09 asciilifeform: -identical-

02:59:13 asciilifeform: more efficient, yes

02:59:15 asciilifeform: vastly

02:59:49 asciilifeform: but so long as freyacopter could possibly work (and there is no reason why the machines currently existing, with about 1:1 useful lift to own weight ratio and around 1/2hr of endurance on standard battery)

03:00:00 asciilifeform: it is a more efficient -product of industry-

03:00:01 asciilifeform: thinkaboutit

03:00:07 mircea_popescu: half hour flight ?

03:00:14 mircea_popescu: so basically this can be used for a bus ride ?

03:00:21 asciilifeform: on standard cell. if some of the load is added cells - longer ride.

03:00:30 decimation: ^ could build liquid fuel version

03:00:39 mircea_popescu: so if all the load is cells, long busride ?

03:00:42 asciilifeform: have tiles which are batteries only. or even small generators

03:00:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha

03:01:00 mircea_popescu: decimation yes but there's a reason they have bipropellers and quad propellers, rather than thousandprops

03:01:04 asciilifeform: choppers aren't meant to cross continents, at any rate

03:01:08 asciilifeform: they are always 'bus'

03:01:19 mircea_popescu: if you look at the relative size of a plane when it moves from two to four it's abundantly clear what the sweetspot is like

03:01:24 decimation: or 'skyhook'

03:01:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in as far as i am able to ascertain the reason, it appears to be because no one has suggested tiles.

03:01:38 mircea_popescu: o.O

03:01:57 asciilifeform: immensely difficult -except- in this precise way.

03:02:23 decimation: actually one could imagine some copters joining the swarm with horizontal attachment

03:02:27 mircea_popescu: look, a combustion engine works from about half liter to about five. that's what it does.

03:02:43 mircea_popescu: making a 2 cc combustion engine is more expensive than 1/50 of making a 1000 cc one.

03:03:05 mircea_popescu: and even this 2 cc combustion engine will beat the shit out of your electrical 10 watt engine

03:03:20 decimation: ^not the engine but the power source

03:03:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: performance - will beat the shit.

03:03:29 asciilifeform: cost - no.

03:03:36 mircea_popescu: maybe.

03:03:42 asciilifeform: how many gasoline-powered toys at your local toy store?

03:03:44 asciilifeform: why?

03:03:54 mircea_popescu: or maybe the only reason you think so atm is because you're looking at the dynamic equilibrium of proces as if it were static

03:04:02 decimation: some folks use gas r/c aircraft and cars

03:04:03 asciilifeform: in practice, less metal - less cost.

03:04:10 mircea_popescu: what if the only reason electric seems cheap now is that we don't use it.

03:04:29 mircea_popescu: decimation tiny turboprop or jet works better than tiny engine yea

03:04:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77245 @ 0.00025597 = 19.7724 BTC [+]

03:04:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this depends on whether there is reserve capacity

03:04:42 asciilifeform: (to produce the item)

03:04:49 mircea_popescu: but then we're back to rockets, and sure, "tile of rockets", consider the mechanical problem that got brushed asiude above

03:05:03 asciilifeform: rockets don't have millisecond-adjustable thrust!

03:05:13 asciilifeform: at least, not solid-fueled

03:05:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform peak oil vs peak copper. except peak oil allows an infinity of capacity to be deployed as long as the sum consumption is under X

03:05:19 asciilifeform: toy propellers - do.

03:05:28 mircea_popescu: whereas peak copper allows only this much capacity ever being deployed.

03:05:32 decimation: yeah but both piston & turboprops/jets need golden toilet metallurgy and production

03:05:36 mircea_popescu: different dynamica, diff price curves.

03:06:08 decimation: ^ toy jets don't have millisecond adjustable thrust either

03:06:23 asciilifeform: what will happen to the parts when 'peak x' is reached for every element in mendeleev table is an interesting question, but unlikely to get there purely by virtue of making toy choppers.

03:06:29 asciilifeform: we'll get there, or not, regardless.

03:06:31 mircea_popescu: people who casually do not realise the importance of peak copper in limiting human history are invited to read up on ww2 economic history

03:06:38 mircea_popescu: or for that matter, greek classical period.

03:06:53 asciilifeform: peak copper is already here. except that massive drop in demand on account of fiber.

03:07:01 mircea_popescu: there's a reason the first coin in the world was a bar of copper.

03:07:03 asciilifeform: and fucktons of cable waiting to be melted.

03:07:11 mircea_popescu: it's still a finite supply.

03:07:15 asciilifeform: naturally.

03:07:17 mircea_popescu: and i suspect not enough to move economy to your model.

03:07:29 mircea_popescu: ie : this toy will stay a toy.

03:07:39 asciilifeform: damnit, it wasn't to fly every man woman child dog cat around for the next eternity.

03:07:43 asciilifeform: it was a wunderwaffen.

03:07:45 mircea_popescu: you said

03:07:55 asciilifeform: i don't do eternities.

03:08:08 asciilifeform: i do the next few years i'm likely to remain alive.

03:08:12 decimation: ^ women children dog cat fly in aluminium tubes with rare metal spinning disks

03:08:23 mircea_popescu: if that's what it is, you're buying a cessna.

03:08:43 *: asciilifeform can't afford even the back half of a cessna

03:08:51 *: asciilifeform but probably could afford 10,000 1kg lifters.

03:09:41 *: asciilifeform fortunately doesn't need to fly around the neighbourhood very much, so gedankenexperiment can stay one

03:10:27 decimation: there are actually many uses for a cheap 'skyhook'

03:10:37 asciilifeform: i also must say that the idea appeals to me not only because of cost

03:10:49 asciilifeform: but because of the implicit transformation from 'item' to 'fabric'

03:11:00 asciilifeform: solving, potentially, a problem unsolved since daedalus's wings

03:11:08 asciilifeform: that is, single points of failure in flying machine.

03:11:41 asciilifeform: so long as you have sufficient spare tiles - you stay aloft.

03:11:43 mircea_popescu: i suspect this is not akin the myth that 1900s ocean liners had solved a problem since idem.

03:11:52 asciilifeform: liner - had central point.

03:12:02 asciilifeform: the whole story of 'titanic' is about this.

03:12:03 decimation: more like 1024 nuclear-powered lifeboats

03:12:11 asciilifeform: ^

03:12:48 asciilifeform: but sure, if you get hit by big enough object (rocket, mountain, hell - the ground) - splat

03:12:49 mircea_popescu: yea, until your tile splits in the middle and the halves slam into each other.

03:12:55 asciilifeform: but only because it takes out all of you at same time.

03:13:30 asciilifeform: or hey, pilot could split in the middle.

03:13:31 decimation: asciilifeform: actually as long as the swarm was operating within a short range of ground, there's no reason why it might not connect to a power 'tether'

03:13:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56315 @ 0.00025279 = 14.2359 BTC [-]

03:13:44 asciilifeform: decimation: tethers in flight are ick

03:13:49 asciilifeform: got power lines in your street ?

03:13:51 asciilifeform: we do

03:14:01 decimation: heh yeah maryland has shit infrastructure

03:14:15 asciilifeform: zimbabweryland

03:15:02 decimation: wash dc power 'customers' can be reliably expected to 1.) whine about a single tree branch trimmed by the power company and 2.) whine when the tree knocks out the power

03:16:20 asciilifeform: my fiber goes through several trees. it is only a matter of time until 'day x.'

03:16:25 asciilifeform: i live with this.

03:16:46 BingoBoingo: Check out Carl Force's 31337 web design skillz http://carl-41044.logogarden.com/

03:16:47 assbot: Engedi LLC Baltimore Maryland ... ( http://bit.ly/1EX9GfU )

03:17:01 asciilifeform: (live how? fallback isp. sorta like what mircea_popescu does)

03:17:17 decimation: asciilifeform: your cell device?

03:17:32 decimation: surely you don't pay both comast AND verizon

03:17:41 decimation: the thought causes bile to rise

03:17:43 asciilifeform: decimation: nah yet another cell

03:17:53 asciilifeform: stationary modem that isn't used normally

03:18:07 decimation: I wonder if telephone modems are still a thing

03:18:21 asciilifeform: decimation: specifically -not- where verizon fiber went

03:18:24 asciilifeform: they tore out the copper.

03:18:28 asciilifeform: illegally.

03:18:31 decimation: aye

03:18:40 decimation: the fcc arrested them I'm sure

03:18:48 asciilifeform: i have a thick hanging severed limb of it here.

03:18:53 asciilifeform: goes nowhere.

03:19:14 asciilifeform: last i heard (years ago) there was a court order compelling them to stop chopping

03:19:17 asciilifeform: but not to rebuild

03:20:16 decimation: well, the whole thing backfired now that the replacement service was going to be classified title II

03:21:05 asciilifeform: decimation: if it does, they probably will be permitted to tear out and melt down the copper

03:21:09 asciilifeform: winning massively

03:21:10 mircea_popescu: so stupid that shit anyway. through and through.

03:21:19 mircea_popescu: aerial cables, bad idea. trees and cable, horrible idea. etc.

03:21:25 decimation: ^stupid and industrious

03:21:26 asciilifeform: decimation: right now it's in a kind of limbo

03:21:28 mircea_popescu: who the fuck heard of not cutting tree branches ?

03:21:36 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they cut'em

03:21:41 decimation: the aerial cables are a result of 1950's era build-out

03:21:45 mircea_popescu: anyway, that's all for me. tomoror!

03:21:53 decimation: noone gave a fuck, and land was cheap

03:22:04 asciilifeform: aerial - 10x cheaper than buried.

03:22:07 decimation: now land is dear, and no one wants to pay to bury the lines

03:22:24 asciilifeform: (short-term, that is. which is the only model of concern to these people)

03:22:48 decimation: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/montgomery-county-puts-aside-tree-trimming-complaints-against-pepco/article/2501311

03:22:50 assbot: Montgomery County puts aside tree trimming complaints against Pepco | WashingtonExaminer.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1xR8Gx2 )

03:22:59 decimation: "Montgomery County Council President Roger Berliner introduced the tree-protection measure in April, following widespread complaints from residents about the power company's aggressive trimming of trees around its power lines."

03:23:53 decimation: ^ a pretty good sample of the way people think in maryland

03:28:51 decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pepco-angers-montgomery-county-neighborhood-residents-by-pruning-beloved-cherry-trees/2012/07/18/gJQAqPqMvW_story.html < "As the men in hard hats hacked away, Julie Marcis and her husband confronted the crew, pleading with them to stop ruining the trees.“You feel like your insides are crumbling when you look at what they did,” Marcis said. “You have no control, you can’t do anything, short

03:28:53 assbot: Pepco angers Montgomery County residents by pruning beloved cherry trees - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1xR9Qss )

03:28:53 decimation: of throwing yourself in front of one of their trucks to stop them, which I considered.”" < lol

03:29:17 asciilifeform: !s cixi

03:29:17 assbot: 4 results for 'cixi' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cixi

03:29:20 asciilifeform: ^

03:29:33 asciilifeform: the infamous queen, who despised steam engine for 'too loud'

03:29:42 decimation: heh yeah sounds about right

03:29:51 decimation: except wash dc has a million cixis

03:30:49 asciilifeform: decimation: at any rate, precisely these folks will be the first to lose civilization permanently

03:31:09 asciilifeform: because when the wires fall - they don't merely fall, they short out substations

03:31:18 asciilifeform: substation transformers in usa are in severe shortage

03:31:36 asciilifeform: and getting worse.

03:31:50 decimation: supposedly this is why the 'carrington event' would be so terrible

03:32:00 decimation: because it would take months to build the transformers

03:32:09 asciilifeform: ^ vastly optimistic

03:32:55 asciilifeform: the building would have to take place on another, spare planet where there wasn't a magnetopocalypse.

03:33:01 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6655 @ 0.00025597 = 1.7035 BTC [+]

03:33:56 decimation: yeah, the really bad thing is that the damage would be global in scale

03:34:35 decimation: “I had a cherry tree that died about 10 years ago. I cut out a part, and had a ceremony for it,” Campbell said. “I burnt it as part of an offering. I was thinking of getting others in the community to do it, and have a healing ceremony.”

03:35:35 asciilifeform: there is exactly one cure for this kind of mental pathology. the good news is that it -will- be prescribed. whether the 'patient' wants, or not.

03:39:07 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 240150 @ 0.00025508 = 61.2575 BTC [-] {4}

03:42:53 nubbins`: i wonder how many people have printed private keys on thermal paper and subsequently hot-laminated the result

03:44:09 asciilifeform: nubbins`: depending on the paper and the laminator - not necessarily disastrous

03:44:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99500 @ 0.00025242 = 25.1158 BTC [-] {2}

03:44:30 asciilifeform: incidentally, all thermal papers fade

03:44:33 asciilifeform: some - very quickly

03:44:35 nubbins`: ^

03:44:46 asciilifeform: anyone who saves receipts, ought to know this

03:44:48 *: nubbins` has destroyed important receipts by putting in wallet

03:45:04 nubbins`: who updates thebitcoin.foundation again? jurov / kakobrekla ?

03:45:06 asciilifeform: thermal paper is great for things that -need- to be destroyed

03:45:11 asciilifeform: e.g., one time pads

03:45:22 asciilifeform: keep away from uv, doesn't fade so much

03:46:29 nubbins`: oh wait it's mod6

03:46:55 nubbins`: mod6, just a suggestion: put the 0.5.3.1 release note under the link rather than over it. it looks like it's attached to the original 0.5.3

03:47:06 mod6: yeah, aight. thx.

03:47:24 nubbins`: you might also wish to put a small blurb under 0.5.3 just noting that to the best of your knowledge, it's vintage legit

03:47:27 mod6: ron burgandy is killing right now :]

03:47:37 nubbins`: or w/e

03:49:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 258168 @ 0.00025824 = 66.6693 BTC [+] {4}

03:53:19 mod6: aight, like that any better?

03:54:22 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 193639 @ 0.00025207 = 48.8106 BTC [-] {3}

03:55:47 nubbins`: yeah that's nb

03:55:55 mod6: ok thx

03:56:11 nubbins`: the <ul> structure won't really support this sort of per-release comment going forward, give me 5 minutes

03:57:31 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [02:35] the problem is tho : the electric machines suck specifically for being electric << different powerplants for different regimes

03:57:44 ben_vulpes: electric kicks ass for power density

04:00:58 ben_vulpes: storage (glide time) not so great.

04:01:11 ben_vulpes: different engineering goals lead one to pick different power plants.

04:02:46 nubbins`: mod6 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Fxv1WCF7

04:02:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BG8ED8 )

04:03:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111355 @ 0.00026295 = 29.2808 BTC [+]

04:03:34 nubbins`: mod6 whole thing: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=EnpWcvp5

04:03:35 assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BG8NGC )

04:04:03 mod6: thanks nubbins`

04:04:13 nubbins`: np

04:08:43 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [03:10] but because of the implicit transformation from 'item' to 'fabric' << i occasionally bat around the notion of producing microturbines with litho

04:09:07 ben_vulpes: fuel, oxidizer etc delivered through capillary tubes

04:15:58 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [03:30] substation transformers in usa are in severe shortage << really? source? this shit doesn't fit in a container and ship from china these days?

04:17:08 nubbins`: they're quite expensive and so there's not a ton of extra stock laying around

04:17:43 nubbins`: if something widespread happens, existing supplies won't come close to covering replacements, and you're looking at months/years for production to catch up

04:17:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23950 @ 0.00026295 = 6.2977 BTC [+]

04:18:11 nubbins`: ;;google power grid is fucked if too many transformers blow at the same time

04:18:12 gribble: Government Agency Warns If 9 Substations Are Destroyed, The ...: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-19/government-agency-warns-if-9-substations-are-destroyed-power-grid-could-be-down-18-m; Government Agency: If 9 Substations Are Destroyed, The Power ...: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/government-agency-if-9-substations-are-destroyed-the-power-grid-could-be-down- (1 more message)

04:26:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147450 @ 0.00025181 = 37.1294 BTC [-] {3}

04:29:25 mod6: ok nubbins`, better?

04:29:38 nubbins`: beauty!

04:29:45 mod6: ok thx.

04:29:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12919 @ 0.00026295 = 3.3971 BTC [+]

04:31:37 mod6: :]

04:45:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31705 @ 0.00026295 = 8.3368 BTC [+]

04:59:26 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65335 @ 0.00025731 = 16.8113 BTC [-]

05:11:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.0002589 = 8.7767 BTC [+]

05:21:48 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 409900 @ 0.0002656 = 108.8694 BTC [+] {4}

05:34:00 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82000 @ 0.0002589 = 21.2298 BTC [-]

05:40:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117043 @ 0.00026858 = 31.4354 BTC [+] {2}

05:47:08 nubbins`: say, asciilifeform, does your pogotron buildroot toolchain have an arm-buildroot-linux-uclibcgnueabi-g++ ?

06:02:30 nubbins`: nevermind, found the flags

06:07:33 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103000 @ 0.00026858 = 27.6637 BTC [+]

06:15:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47750 @ 0.00026858 = 12.8247 BTC [+]

06:28:54 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 222502 @ 0.00026036 = 57.9306 BTC [-] {5}

06:44:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 205300 @ 0.0002561 = 52.5773 BTC [-]

06:47:12 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44320 @ 0.00025689 = 11.3854 BTC [+]

07:06:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33730 @ 0.00025689 = 8.6649 BTC [+]

07:13:38 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 292 @ 0.00439881 = 1.2845 BTC [-] {4}

07:18:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71389 @ 0.00026858 = 19.1737 BTC [+]

07:22:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111250 @ 0.00025682 = 28.5712 BTC [-] {3}

07:33:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080496 << some things more apt for burying than others. optic fibre is perhaps the ideal thing to bury.

07:33:59 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 03:22:24; asciilifeform: (short-term, that is. which is the only model of concern to these people)

07:37:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080512 << everytrhing even moderately costly is in severe permanent shortage in the soviet america. the only thing they have in ample supply is "technologies", a la facebook. exactly mirroring the situation of the previous soviets, eating pravda on bread, except "real" pravda on imaginary bread.

07:37:02 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 03:31:18; asciilifeform: substation transformers in usa are in severe shortage

07:50:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65800 @ 0.00025627 = 16.8626 BTC [-]

07:53:54 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080521 << lawl. the pathology known as "being an ignorant, primitive indigent" ? complete with basic animism, politico-shamanism and the works ?

07:53:54 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 03:35:35; asciilifeform: there is exactly one cure for this kind of mental pathology. the good news is that it -will- be prescribed. whether the 'patient' wants, or not.

07:54:24 mircea_popescu: "i have an idea, let's separate church and state. the 'community' is made out of idiots who aren't actually intellectually prepared to have any sort of church yet anyway."

07:54:46 mircea_popescu: we're fighting the bad ideas of the 1100s by being too stupid to have them yet!

07:57:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080559 << juicy, but i somehow doubt 3d printing's yet there. if you print 10k capilaries of which over 9000 have a hole somewhere... well i guess it'd make a great burning man prop.

07:57:13 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 04:09:07; ben_vulpes: fuel, oxidizer etc delivered through capillary tubes

08:12:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144150 @ 0.00025669 = 37.0019 BTC [+]

08:20:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51038 @ 0.00025632 = 13.0821 BTC [-] {2}

08:23:47 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173740 @ 0.00025295 = 43.9475 BTC [-] {4}

08:26:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170200 @ 0.00025901 = 44.0835 BTC [+]

08:29:53 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107550 @ 0.00026355 = 28.3448 BTC [+]

08:39:02 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72298 @ 0.0002618 = 18.9276 BTC [-]

08:45:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100400 @ 0.00026365 = 26.4705 BTC [+] {2}

09:13:36 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187812 @ 0.00026251 = 49.3025 BTC [-]

09:52:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100000 @ 0.00026251 = 26.251 BTC [-]

09:54:46 kakobrekla: http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

09:54:48 assbot: The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cs6ISd )

09:58:20 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137400 @ 0.0002651 = 36.4247 BTC [+] {2}

10:07:53 mircea_popescu: i hadn't read that one.

10:10:06 funkenstein_: great story :)

10:10:40 funkenstein_: buenas dias

10:12:38 mircea_popescu: " It took mankind a million years to fill one small world and then only fifteen thousand years to fill the rest of the Galaxy."

10:12:51 mircea_popescu: if only. humans don't actually breed like that.

10:13:35 funkenstein_: perhaps the galaxy is already filled with something

10:14:04 mircea_popescu: "dissipated heat?" asked MQ-17J, sarcastically.

10:15:47 funkenstein_: assbot, how are galaxies born?

10:16:27 assbot: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

10:16:36 mircea_popescu: hahaha win.

10:16:43 funkenstein_: lolol

10:16:44 mircea_popescu: galaxies are "born" like ovules are born.

10:17:01 mircea_popescu: whenever the great ovary tears off the packaging off a pre-prepared condom-equivalent.

10:17:38 mircea_popescu: kakobrekla btw give danielpbarron wiki access wouldja

10:17:51 mircea_popescu: he wants to fill it with good christian thoughts.

10:17:54 kakobrekla: he got it yest.

10:19:09 mircea_popescu: ah cool

10:24:46 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49900 @ 0.0002665 = 13.2984 BTC [+] {2}

10:27:26 mircea_popescu: asimov's idea of thermic end is kinda bizarre. it doesn't go to 0, it goes to "soup"

10:27:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00026674 = 12.2967 BTC [+]

10:28:46 mircea_popescu: through a process roughly similar to pair generation (which is how we even know black stars exist : spontaneously generated pairs which sum to zero but which are separated by the event horizon result in direct radiation of the black body), it is reasonable to expect even a thermically dead universe to display localised disturbances, permanently.

10:30:08 mircea_popescu: which is probably what the universe is in the first place : the big bang was... well... one such event, tiny in its proper scale.

10:31:46 funkenstein_: the concept of a universe seeks a proper definition

10:32:08 mircea_popescu: nah, it's defined alright. "universe" = "the lot that obeys the same laws"

10:32:42 funkenstein_: that's a better definition than most

10:32:51 mircea_popescu: pointedly opposed to the concept of cosmos (the lot of related parts)

10:33:16 mircea_popescu: a lot of human history can be readily understood by sieving it through the universe-cosmos duality

10:33:30 funkenstein_: so if my law is hurricanes spin counterclockwise.. we are now in different universes

10:33:58 mircea_popescu: except this is just your perception of a fundamental law.

10:34:04 mircea_popescu: an so your perception of different universes.

10:34:58 mircea_popescu: fucking incredible how bad the "definitions" peddled by online sites are.

10:35:40 mircea_popescu: sometimes i wonder how thinking people manage to put up with this indignity. it's really worse than any government bullshit. to not have a dictionary ?! barbarous.

10:36:44 mircea_popescu: anyway, asimov ends it with an intelligent design thing ? /me is disappoint.

10:36:48 mircea_popescu: and on that note... laters!

10:37:14 funkenstein_: cheers

10:47:08 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79490 @ 0.00026219 = 20.8415 BTC [-] {2}

11:17:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90200 @ 0.00025906 = 23.3672 BTC [-]

11:34:55 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142672 @ 0.00025837 = 36.8622 BTC [-] {2}

11:35:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67640 @ 0.00025248 = 17.0777 BTC [-]

11:37:20 nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> if only. humans don't actually breed like that. <<< what, exponentially? o.O

11:39:46 nubbins`: so i added BR2_GCC_CROSS_CXX=y and BR2_INSTALL_LIBSTDCPP=y flags to pogoplug_defconfig but g++ doesn't get spit out. what gives!

11:43:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79589 @ 0.00025248 = 20.0946 BTC [-]

11:43:29 nubbins`: anyway mircea_popescu i took TFQ more to be an interpretation of the whole "hyperspace = outside of normal spacetime" thing simiar to what Card suggested in Children of the Mind

11:43:48 nubbins`: rather than lame ol' intelligent design

11:44:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60306 @ 0.00025248 = 15.2261 BTC [-]

11:44:08 funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> lifting whatever size load as one wishes, like balloons <-- it's the airflow problem that will probably get you.

11:44:19 funkenstein_: Also as you move horizontally away from the object you are lifting, your leverage d

11:44:25 funkenstein_: ecreases

11:45:01 nubbins`: altho intelligent design and "super intelligent computer in hyperspace" is sort of a bijective function

12:11:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137050 @ 0.00025188 = 34.5202 BTC [-] {2}

12:14:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4494 @ 0.00025233 = 1.134 BTC [+]

12:24:44 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144250 @ 0.00024973 = 36.0236 BTC [-] {3}

12:45:04 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 137100 @ 0.0002505 = 34.3436 BTC [+]

12:54:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 393704 @ 0.00025074 = 98.7173 BTC [+] {2}

12:58:18 danielpbarron: height=306222 vs height=218829

13:04:26 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080626 << so far have filled with deedbot documentation -> http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot

13:04:26 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 10:17:51; mircea_popescu: he wants to fill it with good christian thoughts.

13:20:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53280 @ 0.00025342 = 13.5022 BTC [+]

13:23:32 nubbins`: next best thing

13:28:56 nubbins`: "I discovered Bitcoin before fiat money since my Bitcoin wallet is 4 years old and my bank account is 1." -17 year old Louison Dumont, founder of Bitproof.io, on ZapChain AMA

13:29:04 nubbins`: that's an immense amount of anti-logic

13:29:56 nubbins`: i discovered my asshole before my mouth because my mouth is 33 years old and my new buttplug is 5.

13:36:19 mod6: !t m s.mpoe

13:36:20 assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00024959 / 0.00025931 / 0.0002757 (8398445 shares, 2,177.86 BTC), 7D: 0.0001443 / 0.00025237 / 0.00028207 (33101933 shares, 8,354.13 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00030532 / 0.0004493 (94432905 shares, 28,832.91 BTC)

13:39:58 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155651 @ 0.00025342 = 39.4451 BTC [+]

13:48:06 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 193778 @ 0.00025785 = 49.9657 BTC [+] {2}

14:07:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 263550 @ 0.00026094 = 68.7707 BTC [+] {3}

14:14:15 jurov: assholes, bitcoins, tomato flavored doritos.. to every man his own

14:20:35 nubbins`: 10/10 would eat again

14:20:51 nubbins`: the deliciousness of ketchup flavor with the enhanced snap of a corn chip

14:23:36 mats: what is going on with the yen?

14:23:42 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43894 @ 0.00024997 = 10.9722 BTC [-] {2}

14:23:53 mats: i'm baffled

14:25:40 jurov: ;;ticker --currency jpy

14:25:41 gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.

14:27:29 jurov: !t m s.qntr

14:27:29 assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00033 / 0.00033 / 0.00033 (100 shares, 0.03 BTC), 7D: 0.00033 / 0.00033 / 0.00033 (100 shares, 0.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00024802 / 0.00033 (45259 shares, 11.23 BTC)

14:28:23 jurov: todamoon!

14:28:42 jurov: !depth s.qntr

14:28:49 jurov: $depth s.qntr

14:37:01 thestringpuller: there is no mpex bot

14:37:16 nubbins`: :(

14:48:26 mats: USDJPY up ~20% over nine months

14:50:11 mats: this, while fed rate hike is incoming and BoJ continues QE part two...

14:53:08 asciilifeform: nubbins`: so i added BR2_GCC_CROSS_CXX=y and BR2_INSTALL_LIBSTDCPP=y flags to pogoplug_defconfig but g++ doesn't get spit out. what gives! << did you 'make clean all' ? 'buildroot' doesn't work like a proper 'make' project at all. you have to 'clean' it almost every time you change anything.

14:53:12 asciilifeform: sorta like our bitcoind.

14:53:51 asciilifeform: funkenstein_: Also as you move horizontally away from the object you are lifting, your leverage decreases << only if payload is a point.

14:54:36 asciilifeform: if it is point-like enough, it begins to make sense to stack the tiles vertically (at sufficient distance naturally)

14:54:41 asciilifeform: !up freeborn

14:54:47 freeborn: thanks!

14:55:07 freeborn: hi all, been following the bitcoin foundations work for a little while.. looks really cool! I have been giving it a shot trying to install on my openbsd machine, I noticed in the release notes that BingoBoingo has provided soem insights for building on obsd, does anyone know if this is possible yet?

14:55:42 asciilifeform: freeborn: try the mac os build instructions posted recently, these may work on openbsd

14:55:56 freeborn: asciilifeform: cool, will track that down, thanks!

14:56:26 mats: somehow the peasants are reassured by fake money being poured into the engine

14:56:29 thestringpuller: freeborn: I'm pretty sure mod6 has gotten it working on OpenBSD.

14:56:37 mats: thats the only explanation for increased confidence in the yen i can imagine

14:56:47 nubbins`: asciilifeform ah. i did 'make clean' but not 'make clean all'.

14:57:00 asciilifeform: nubbins`: make clean all first cleans then alls

14:57:06 thestringpuller: mats: i don't understand the point of fake money anymore.

14:57:16 nubbins`: hm. trying it again now, regardless

14:57:37 thestringpuller: mats: /wind 5

14:57:39 freeborn: thestringpuller: very cool. mod6 o/

14:57:42 thestringpuller: oops*

14:57:44 asciilifeform: nubbins`: rebuild from scratch (as per my recipe but with your flags)

14:57:52 asciilifeform: nubbins`: this may be necessary if changing compiler type

14:58:02 nubbins`: hm

14:58:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63188 @ 0.00024943 = 15.761 BTC [-] {2}

14:58:19 mats: gotta work on your editor fu

14:58:23 nubbins`: well, this has been going for about an hour now, so i'll let it finish. if that doesn't do it, i'll start from scratch

14:58:37 asciilifeform: freeborn: get in the wot

14:58:40 mats: lotta those errors being printed to chan on a weekly basis

14:58:45 asciilifeform: freeborn: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

14:58:53 asciilifeform: freeborn: then you can have permanent voice.

14:59:16 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81071 @ 0.00024852 = 20.1478 BTC [-]

14:59:17 nubbins`: asciilifeform FWIW you may wish to include those flags in the next portatronic release; boost requires g++

14:59:24 freeborn: asciilifeform: ok, sounds good.

14:59:34 asciilifeform: nubbins`: you know, you can make next release too

14:59:41 nubbins`: :D

14:59:46 nubbins`: dat empowerment

14:59:55 asciilifeform: nubbins`: i have not even tried to build bitcoin or its deps using buildroot's chain, yet

15:00:00 nubbins`: aha.

15:00:02 asciilifeform: nubbins`: so you will be the pioneer.

15:00:07 nubbins`: i have; it needs g++ 8)

15:00:13 nubbins`: \m/

15:00:44 asciilifeform: nubbins`: incidentally - read through the packages tree to see if there are any that use cpp

15:00:44 nubbins`: freeborn have you run into errors or have you not tried yet?

15:00:50 asciilifeform: nubbins`: and see what flags they pull in

15:00:58 asciilifeform: nubbins`: this will easily answer your puzzle

15:01:17 asciilifeform: (buildroot's packages that is)

15:01:18 *: nubbins` nods

15:02:21 nubbins`: now, while i wait for this potentially-useless compile to finish, i'm gonna re-up on caffeine and watch some zombies

15:06:00 nubbins`: hm, if this doesn't work, i can rebuild *just* the cross toolchain, can't i?

15:06:18 mod6: <+thestringpuller> freeborn: I'm pretty sure mod6 has gotten it working on OpenBSD. << Hi freeborn, yup, OpenBSD is on def. at the top of our list of platforms to support. I made good progress on this in February, but got a little side-tracked in March with the release. Stay tuned to the mailing list (btc-dev), any advancements in this realm will be updated there.

15:06:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you print 10k capilaries of which over 9000 have a hole somewhere... well i guess it'd make a great burning man prop << problem invites itself to be solved with clever metallurgy. as in, alloy which functions if in a normal turbine but fuses the capillary shut if said capillary is on fire and not cooled by a nearby functioning microturbine.

15:07:14 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: optic fibre is perhaps the ideal thing to bury << aha. doesn't care about water (see ancient thread re: co2 tanks chained to telco poles) or capacitance of surrounding material

15:07:28 freeborn: mod6: thanks!!! my fingers await your instructions

15:07:41 freeborn: currently with out some guidence, compiling this looks beyond me

15:08:25 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92300 @ 0.00025588 = 23.6177 BTC [+]

15:08:25 mod6: It requires a subtle patch to the code.

15:08:40 freeborn: once ready, I am interested in working on a openbsd live image that uses the reference bitcoind

15:08:58 mod6: I have that part figured out, I even had mine running. but it was only a /dynamically/ linked build. The part I need to still sort out is a staically linked build.

15:09:14 freeborn: ok, subscribing to the list ;)

15:09:47 mod6: Hopefully I'll have something figured out for that soon. And yup, updates will go to the mailing list. :]

15:18:20 nubbins`: mod6 many changes for bsd?

15:22:39 mod6: naw. its just a few additional include statements in a few of the source files iirc

15:23:07 mod6: I can look quick

15:25:03 fluffypony: http://spottedmarley.com/thinkabout/bitcoin-surveillance.jpg

15:25:04 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CsYdGF )

15:25:23 nubbins`: as a wild guess, i'd say at least some of the changes in my osx instructions may apply -- most of them were just renaming syscalls and compiler flags

15:25:55 mod6: !up freeborn

15:27:42 mod6: so it looks like i've got 1 small tweak to the makefile, and for some reason it doesnt seem to like "DB_LOG_AUTO_REMOVE" in db.cpp and there are a few include statements needed.

15:28:41 mod6: but all of that is easy, i just need to dig in to figure out how to get the proper configure args for openbsd -- iirc last time I tried, I tried to build a statically linked binary and then openssl compile failed. and I just got busy with the release so I havent gotten back to it yet.

15:29:25 nubbins`: YEAH

15:29:29 mod6: There's a lot of stuff on our "to-do" list, but it'd be nice to knock out some OpenBSD support before we get into doing other heavy lifting.

15:29:30 nubbins`: i mean, uh, yeah

15:30:14 mod6: i'll see if i can do some sorcery in the next few days and get it resolved.

15:30:30 nubbins`: i'm planning to fiddle with getting static bitcoind compiled w/ pogotron buildroot cross-compile toolchain

15:30:41 nubbins`: can take a peek at some flavor of bsd after that

15:32:20 mod6: sweet, thanks nubbins`

15:34:43 trinque: I have my cross compiling tooling all set up as well, and can help

15:34:57 trinque: nubbins`: I made it as far as boost having a seizure over... something

15:35:05 trinque: I'll run it again and find out

15:35:23 nubbins`: pastebin a good chunk before and after your first error

15:35:38 trinque: aye aye

15:42:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 161850 @ 0.00025609 = 41.4482 BTC [+] {2}

15:56:20 nubbins`: !up freeborn

16:05:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189749 @ 0.00025256 = 47.923 BTC [-]

16:11:39 lobbes: I'll be ordering my 'training laptop' soon. My question is: Gentoo or OpenBSD?

16:12:28 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17216 @ 0.00025256 = 4.3481 BTC [-]

16:16:58 jurov: hi lobbes

16:17:11 jurov: if you're serious about simpleshell then gentoo

16:17:18 jurov: just my 2c

16:17:50 jurov: but i don't see any problem with dualboot

16:18:34 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111000 @ 0.00026012 = 28.8733 BTC [+] {2}

16:20:00 lobbes: thanks jurov. Yeah, I feel like I'm leaning the gentoo direction. Still gotta find a good hosting provider for simpleshell though

16:20:19 lobbes: and I'm too cheap to shell out the dough for a dedi

16:21:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103850 @ 0.00025256 = 26.2284 BTC [-]

16:23:26 *: ben_vulpes sips coffee, dives into logs

16:23:39 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 229200 @ 0.00025037 = 57.3848 BTC [-] {3}

16:25:42 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu>: ... juicy ... << litho, my man, litho.

16:28:00 jurov: lobbes there are dedis with small arm machines

16:28:27 ben_vulpes: a gentleman by the name of mark weislogel gave me the inspiration for the idea one year in thermofluids

16:29:10 ben_vulpes: "some of the work going on over at the lab has to do with microfluidic transport systems relying on capillaries - and i mean *micro* - we etch the channels in"

16:29:46 ben_vulpes: lil benkay's mind goes frothy with applications of etched channels in rocketry and turbines

16:30:17 ben_vulpes: assbot: foo"

16:30:23 ben_vulpes: assbot: foo?

16:32:27 ben_vulpes: ;;ticker --market bitstamp --currency jpy

16:32:28 gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY ticker | Best bid: 29214.04776, Best ask: 29232.03966, Bid-ask spread: 17.99190, Last trade: 29271.62184, 24 hour volume: 8222.96799952, 24 hour low: 28613.1183, 24 hour high: 29849.76156, 24 hour vwap: 29343.2288502

16:32:39 ben_vulpes: mats ^^

16:35:49 ben_vulpes: <fluffypony> http://spottedmarley.com/thinkabout/bitcoin-surveillance.jpg << sauce?

16:35:51 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DmBfD9 )

16:36:56 fluffypony: ben_vulpes: it was linked somewhere, Reddit I think

16:37:14 jurov: https://twitter.com/spottedmarley

16:37:16 assbot: Spotted Marley (@SpottedMarley) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1DmBRbH )

16:38:44 ben_vulpes: http://antiwar.com/blog/2015/03/18/google-disables-all-ads-on-antiwar-com/ << via spotted_marley

16:38:46 assbot: Google Disables All Ads on Antiwar.com (Updated) « Antiwar.com Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1DmCsdu )

16:39:02 ben_vulpes: weak lawgs

16:39:09 ben_vulpes: looks like i have no choice but to rubby up

16:39:38 mats: ben_vulpes: not me but thanks

16:41:00 ben_vulpes: berp borp

16:41:14 ben_vulpes: this is what i get for being on irc before the stimulants hit my bloodstream

16:42:10 ben_vulpes: apropos of nothing

16:42:11 ben_vulpes: https://github.com/infoforcefeed/OlegDB/issues/166

16:42:12 assbot: Eventual consistency via IMRS clustering proposal · Issue #166 · infoforcefeed/OlegDB · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1DmDZjS )

16:42:28 lobbes: jurov: oh wow. noob me was unaware of the existance of ARM processors. Yes, looking around the google this seems like it might be a good route to follow. Thanks for the tip!

16:43:03 jurov: yw

16:43:49 nubbins`: asciilifeform are those md5 checksums on the end of your patch names or what?

16:43:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104500 @ 0.00026229 = 27.4093 BTC [+] {2}

16:44:13 *: nubbins` has checked sigs, verified everything front-back, has no idea what string in filename is :S

16:51:54 jurov: nubbins`: on btc-dev mailing list?

16:52:01 nubbins`: yes

16:52:02 jurov: that's sha1 hash

16:52:04 nubbins`: a!

16:52:09 jurov: of patch contents

16:52:46 jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev << explained here

16:52:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DyUhn4 )

16:53:55 jurov: patch list page shows bogus data, it's my TODO

16:57:54 nubbins`: ok!

16:57:57 nubbins`: thanks

16:58:31 nubbins`: hm, made changes to pogoplug_defconfig, they don't show up in .config

16:59:30 BingoBoingo: !up freeborn

17:00:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136327 @ 0.00026312 = 35.8704 BTC [+]

17:01:01 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell freeborn If you have the slightest inclination to use the wallet at all and you aren't using 5.7 or -current you will want to change the random function in wallet.cpp explicitly to arc4random, which has not been rc4 based in a long time. It is their good random.

17:01:01 gribble: The operation succeeded.

17:17:09 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

17:17:14 ascii_field: ty BingoBoingo

17:17:31 ascii_field: nubbins`: asciilifeform are those md5 checksums << wai wat

17:17:37 ascii_field: nubbins`: sha512

17:17:56 ascii_field: nubbins`: made changes to pogoplug_defconfig, they don't show up in .config << make clean; make pogoplug_defconfig; make

17:20:53 nubbins`: ascii_field: i did make clean; make pogoplug_defconfig, but my "BR2_INSTALL_LIBSTDCPP=y" line from pogoplug_defconfig isn't showing up in the resultant .config

17:21:29 ascii_field: which .config ?

17:23:25 nubbins`: # configuration written to /home/nubs/dev/buildroot-2015.02/.config

17:23:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22720 @ 0.00026312 = 5.9781 BTC [+]

17:23:50 nubbins`: if i 'make nconfig' and enable the C++ option in there, the flag shows in .config

17:26:30 ascii_field: nubbins`: hm. iirc there is a verbose debug option for the make. try see what it does

17:26:45 ascii_field: eventually we are probably stuck with the job of actually figuring out how buildroot works

17:26:53 ascii_field: definitely has warts

17:27:02 ascii_field: but it's still lightyears ahead of doing all the work manually

17:34:48 nubbins`: yeah

17:35:18 nubbins`: i added c++ support via nconfig after applying your two patches, gonna see what that spits out

17:42:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109750 @ 0.00025909 = 28.4351 BTC [-]

17:48:54 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

17:56:04 ascii_field: in other 'news', week straight of scouring the net for traces of anything even roughly comparable to 'pogo' still being in production -

17:56:06 ascii_field: no result.

17:56:50 ascii_field: (idiocies like boards with video chip, sound card, etc. at 3 to 5 times the cost - don't count, not interesting in the least)

18:00:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 161324 @ 0.00026312 = 42.4476 BTC [+]

18:01:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00026312 = 6.0781 BTC [+]

18:02:18 nubbins`: http://imgur.com/a/ecQ5T

18:02:19 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIRQvi )

18:02:49 nubbins`: ultra-lel ^

18:02:57 nubbins`: check date on last email

18:06:04 chetty: powdered alcohol??? wt

18:07:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57340 @ 0.00026312 = 15.0873 BTC [+]

18:13:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180325 @ 0.00026679 = 48.1089 BTC [+] {2}

18:19:41 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

18:24:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44504 @ 0.00026682 = 11.8746 BTC [+]

18:44:59 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135000 @ 0.00026827 = 36.2165 BTC [+]

18:50:03 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105200 @ 0.00026835 = 28.2304 BTC [+]

18:51:44 BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field

18:51:49 BingoBoingo: !up _FeltPen

18:53:29 ascii_field: 'Recently a retired US general went on television to declare that what's needed to turn around the situation in the Ukraine is to simply “start killing Russians.” The Russians listened to that, marveled at his idiocy, and then went ahead and opened a criminal case against him. Now this general will be unable to travel to an ever-increasing number of countries around the world for fear of getting arrested and depor

18:53:29 ascii_field: ted to Russia to stand trial. This is largely a symbolic gesture, but non-symbolic non-gestures of a preventive nature are sure to follow. You see, my fellow space travelers, murder happens to be illegal. In most jurisdictions, inciting others to murder also happens to be illegal. Americans have granted themselves the license to kill without checking to see whether perhaps they might be exceeding their authority. We

18:53:30 ascii_field: should expect, then, that as their power trickles away, their license to kill will be revoked, and they find themselves reclassified from global hegemons to mere murderers.'

18:53:48 ascii_field: ^ mega-l0l from, guess who, orlov; http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/license-to-kill.html

18:53:49 assbot: ClubOrlov: License to Kill ... ( http://bit.ly/1afDpt6 )

19:02:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139376 @ 0.00026827 = 37.3904 BTC [-]

19:04:50 ascii_field: https://www.amazon.com/oc/dash-button << seek00r1ty lulz waiting to happen

19:04:51 assbot: Amazon Dash Button - Official site - Request an invitation ... ( http://bit.ly/19yGIKO )

19:05:18 ascii_field: own some schmuck's wifi, order 10,000 bottles of washing machine liquid

19:07:33 Chillum: even if you can't hack other people's it would be nice if you can repurpose it

19:08:22 Chillum: make it into a wifi doorbell

19:08:55 BingoBoingo: Chillum> make it into a wifi doorbell << What's wrong with a heavy, resonant wooden door?

19:09:18 Chillum: I bet they give those away are sell them really cheap to sell more product

19:09:33 Chillum: s/are/or/

19:09:50 ascii_field: Chillum: ad says they will be given away to subscribers

19:09:58 ascii_field: (of amazon 'prime')

19:10:27 Chillum: at first. I bet they will start shipping them along with whatever you order soon

19:10:43 Chillum: buy a printer, get a button for ink

19:10:48 trinque: amazon... stahhhhp

19:10:59 Chillum: one click ordering was too hard

19:11:14 *: Chillum is going to push every single one of those he sees

19:11:16 trinque: gotta turn your house into a gerbil cage

19:11:22 Chillum: you have to push buttons after all

19:11:47 ascii_field: Chillum: even funnier: eventually printer will want a credit card inserted when you print. but - you get toner in the mail when runs out

19:11:49 ascii_field: something like that.

19:12:15 trinque: these are ads.

19:12:25 *: trinque shakes his head

19:12:43 trinque: it's so you have a fucking cotonelle logo next to you every time you shit

19:13:14 Chillum: lol, I want to reprogram them, put a sticker over the advert

19:13:18 ascii_field: trinque: from the ad, it seems like the button comes unadorned but possibly with different stickers depending on what vendor you set yours to

19:13:36 ascii_field: (why this entire gadget is necessary, i still do not understand)

19:14:06 Chillum: by reducing the difficulty of ordering people are significantly more likely to order

19:14:23 Chillum: for stuff you would normally buy when grocery shopping

19:14:27 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106400 @ 0.00026853 = 28.5716 BTC [+] {2}

19:14:56 ascii_field: in other news,

19:15:01 ascii_field: pogov4 up by $1 on 'amazon.'

19:16:50 mod6: BingoBoingo: thank's for the OpenBSD reminder about arc4random, a note about your blog though... you do say 7.x or 8 or w/e.. in v0.5.3/v0.5.3.1 the function that contains that part to change from rand() to arc4random() is called: CWallet::SelectCoinsMinConf

19:17:14 mod6: line 858 of wallet.cpp from v0.5.3.1

19:17:21 mod6: just fyi anyway

19:18:26 Chillum: the earlier version looks more useful: http://gizmodo.com/amazon-dash-is-a-magic-wand-that-makes-sure-you-never-r-1558691755 barcode scanner and microphone with wifi button. Would rather hack that

19:18:27 assbot: Amazon Dash Is a Magic Wand That Makes Sure You Never Run Out of Stuff ... ( http://bit.ly/19yLmZo )

19:18:27 BingoBoingo: mod6: Cool if the news ever calms down enough try try the reference build I'm going to have to put this in the notebook.

19:18:33 BingoBoingo: !up SquirtPrincess

19:19:13 trinque: ... SquirtPrincess ?

19:19:52 trinque: what is this, infiltration by fake cam girl?

19:20:31 trinque: Chillum: kinda neat, though why not just scan with a phone app

19:20:46 trinque: and I think having a standing order of whatever per month trumps all

19:22:42 Chillum: Simpler is more secure, I don't trust my phone. Not sure what it is running but if you could get a fresh linux install it would be nice

19:22:54 jurov: !up ascii_field

19:23:01 Chillum: it is only a laser based barcode scanner though, so no qr codes

19:25:41 mod6: BingoBoingo: cool. ive got openssl/bdb/boost built now on obsd 5.6, then just gotta apply sublte obsd changes to v0.5.3.1 and then try the static build. if all works & pulls blocks, I'll make patches: one for the v0.5.3.1 source and one for `auto.sh' (which needs a few tweaks). maybe you can just point at that instead. anyway, no worries.

19:26:43 BingoBoingo: mod6: Sounds good. I'll likely point to that in addition to what I have already

19:26:54 trinque: Chillum: sure, but there's a barrier to getting someone to deal with another gadget

19:27:15 mod6: good deal. im excited about a hardened version of bitcoin to run on obsd!

19:28:53 trinque: ^ hear hear

19:30:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25270 @ 0.00026827 = 6.7792 BTC [-]

19:30:45 BingoBoingo: !up SquirtPrincess

19:32:49 Chillum: If one could have cheap hardware with a built in hardware assist qr reader then you could use that for a cold wallet system. You would likely need more than one qr code per tx though

19:32:53 SquirtPrincess: thxs <3

19:33:54 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:33:59 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, et al: auto.sh downloads tarballs from places that aren't therealbitcoin

19:34:03 ascii_field: imho this is a bad idea

19:34:14 ascii_field: at the very least should have mirror.

19:34:51 ascii_field: i mean, yes, we have hashes

19:35:02 BingoBoingo: <mod6> good deal. im excited about a hardened version of bitcoin to run on obsd! << Just remember on obsd libressl is an option. Libressl v 2.0 syncs plays much nicer with the built in OpenBSD memory protections than OpenSSL does, those changes were the reason they forked.

19:35:15 SquirtPrincess: think im too late for tits for BTc lol

19:35:29 ascii_field: but the use of boxes not under therealbitcoin's control, for any purpose, is not a thing to live with indefinitely

19:35:40 ascii_field: SquirtPrincess: ask mircea_popescu about this

19:35:46 BingoBoingo: SquirtPrincess: Not really, just have to wait for mircea_popescu to show up.

19:36:36 SquirtPrincess: thxs <3 fr the info

19:38:06 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, et al: auto.sh leads to 'util.h:650:8: error: ‘uint32_t’ does not name a type' on my boxes.

19:38:08 ascii_field: wtf.

19:39:23 nubbins`: :o

19:41:17 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-03-2015#1071861

19:41:17 assbot: Logged on 26-03-2015 01:51:17; danielpbarron: last time i tried to build bitcoind i got this far -> util.h:650:8: error: 'uint32_t' does not name a type

19:41:30 ascii_field: i distinctly recall fixing this in one of my patches

19:41:35 ascii_field: who reintroduced it, and why ?

19:45:29 ascii_field: and where the fuck DOES this thing build?

19:45:31 ascii_field: who tested it?

19:45:39 ascii_field: anyone?

19:54:28 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/opsec-lessons-from-carl-mark-force-iv/

19:54:36 BingoBoingo: ^ Much lulz

19:58:39 BingoBoingo: !up bitstein_

20:00:45 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: 'Force had a habit of throwing is profession around' ?

20:00:49 ascii_field: 'his profession' ?

20:01:01 ascii_field: 'if Bitcoin villain Mark Karpeles can believed'

20:01:03 ascii_field: 'be believed' ?

20:01:22 ascii_field: 'lead to exchanges' >> 'leads to' ?

20:02:10 BingoBoingo: fxd

20:05:38 chetty: !up ascii_field

20:05:55 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

20:06:14 ascii_field: all the 'long long' crapolade and any other non-stdint idiocy needs to go.

20:06:18 ascii_field: it is fucking retarded.

20:07:04 ascii_field: and yes, uint_8 instead of char, too

20:07:13 ascii_field: all types should have obvious bitwidths.

20:08:00 ascii_field: why is it in there? is it still in phoundation's fork?

20:09:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69814 @ 0.00026493 = 18.4958 BTC [-]

20:12:59 ascii_field: oh and i will also spew forth this:

20:13:29 ascii_field: a virginal gentoo box is imho presently the gold standard of non-retarded computing (at least on linux. could argue with openbsd, etc)

20:13:38 ascii_field: if something doesn't build correctly there - it's broken.

20:16:34 chetty: well I guess eulora will get the ultimate test then, mp is planning on installing a copy on such a box soonish

20:17:29 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169900 @ 0.00026896 = 45.6963 BTC [+] {3}

20:17:33 ascii_field: Chillum: If one could have cheap hardware with a built in hardware assist qr reader << this is one of the things i disagree with mircea_popescu about. i do not like qr codes. they require a surprising amount of algorithmic complexity and consequently cpu horsepower to decode.

20:17:53 Chillum: that is why I was thinking hardware assist qr

20:17:53 ascii_field: and correspondingly - they enlarge attack surface.

20:18:04 ascii_field: Chillum: and what's in the hardware? pixie dust?

20:18:41 ascii_field: Chillum: you may come from a place where the word 'hardware' means you are permitted to not think about how something works. #b-a is not such a place.

20:19:12 trinque: hardware assist likely means the qr code reader is actually a keyboard

20:19:18 trinque: much like barcode scanners tend to be

20:19:24 Chillum: rs232 for the good ones

20:19:28 ascii_field: it is NOT ACTUALLY A KEYBOARD - just presents as one

20:19:32 trinque: right

20:19:37 ascii_field: internally there is still code that decodes the fucking bitmap

20:19:39 ascii_field: srsly

20:19:43 ascii_field: this is elementary

20:19:46 trinque: ascii_field: I'm not advocating this

20:19:51 trinque: just translating

20:19:58 ascii_field: but everybody but me seems to use these

20:20:02 ascii_field: and i say - grief will come of it.

20:20:06 Chillum: I think all means of moving information from one computer to another involves some hardware

20:20:21 Chillum: even if you software decode a signal the hardware can still tamper with it

20:20:41 ascii_field: Chillum: some hardware such as fingers

20:21:27 Chillum: so how would one move information to and from a cold wallet? I want to avoid USB which is full of issues

20:21:35 ascii_field: fingers.

20:21:42 ascii_field: you have 10 of'em

20:21:44 ascii_field: i assume

20:21:44 Chillum: type the whole transaction??

20:21:47 ascii_field: unless you're a carpenter

20:21:54 Chillum: then type the signature?

20:21:58 ascii_field: or 2d barcode

20:22:01 ascii_field: spiral it if you must

20:22:10 ascii_field: it is read with minimal horsepower.

20:22:16 Chillum: I wonder if you can feed a very long 2d barcode as a paper tape

20:22:33 Chillum: thermal printer/laser

20:22:50 Chillum: you can even program your own microcontroller with the barcode algo if you are worried

20:22:55 Chillum: of course you will have to trust its cpu

20:23:48 ascii_field: Chillum: barcode reader is simple enough conceptually that it doesn't need a cpu.

20:23:53 ascii_field: can be made entirely of discrete logic.

20:23:57 ascii_field: qr - no.

20:24:12 Chillum: even if you have a trusted barcode reader feeding information into a rs232 port you can still trigger a buffer overflow in something that uses the data

20:24:29 Chillum: some control over the content is still needed

20:24:54 ascii_field: traditional barcode gives you a very easy means of estimating the size of the payload

20:24:57 ascii_field: qr - again, no

20:25:13 Chillum: fair enough, was just thinking of information density

20:25:53 Chillum: hmm a strip of thermal paper could have 4 different barcodes running along the length of the strip to be read concurrently to reduce paper size

20:26:04 BingoBoingo: I sense a loller train a coming https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30ypy1/opsec_lessons_from_carl_mark_force_iv/cpx1mwy

20:26:06 assbot: usrn comments on OpSec Lessons From Carl Mark Force IV ... ( http://bit.ly/1NB1Op4 )

20:26:10 nubbins`: <+ascii_field> and where the fuck DOES this thing build? <<< apparently only on osx and DPB's pogos o.O

20:26:30 ascii_field: Chillum: i do it differently. 'boustrophedonic' (if you don't know, look it up) raster scan on the tape

20:27:04 ascii_field: nubbins`: i am unable to build with auto.sh

20:27:21 ascii_field: nubbins`: and this is everyone's loss, because i was gonna attempt a proper fix for the orphans thing tonight

20:27:27 ascii_field: but now won't, because barfed.

20:28:12 Chillum: good idea to reduce seek time of the scanner. Was thinking long strip of paper because thermal paper is so cheap and it could be pulled through and spat out

20:28:35 Chillum: 4 readers next to each other

20:29:41 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47950 @ 0.00026748 = 12.8257 BTC [-]

20:29:55 Chillum: plus devices that pull receipt paper along are already available and cheap[

20:30:17 nubbins`: <+ascii_field> a virginal gentoo box is imho presently the gold standard of non-retarded computing (at least on linux. could argue with openbsd, etc) <<< if anyone reading this is at all interested in playing with .foundation releases going forward, i'd strongly encourage they fire up a VM and actually go through a fresh gentoo install. official guides are well-written and if you can't handle this step, you're not ready for monkey-football

20:30:17 Chillum: a modified printer can pull the paper past the readers

20:30:32 ascii_field: Chillum: cheap but not optimized for keeping it straight.

20:30:42 Chillum: valid point

20:30:49 ascii_field: Chillum: virtually everything that comes out of mine is slightly crooked

20:31:09 ascii_field: nubbins`: but apparently no one tested this release on gentoo !

20:31:26 ascii_field: it was built, if built, on fuck knows what

20:31:29 Chillum: If there were a strip of timing lines at even intervals you could even just put it into a depression and hand pull it across, if they were wide enough a bit of slant would be okay

20:31:55 Chillum: mag stripe cards that can be swiped at variable speeds(different speeds in the same swipe) use a timing signal

20:31:59 Chillum: shoudl not be much different

20:32:20 ascii_field: Chillum: aha.

20:32:31 Chillum: that paper is easy to mangle

20:32:34 ascii_field: i'll go further, and say that one could straight encode ps/2 clock and data signals as barcode.

20:32:41 ascii_field: that way reader is -100% analogue-

20:32:47 Chillum: good idea

20:32:47 ascii_field: -analogue-.

20:32:50 nubbins`: what's danielpbarron's nodes running, bsd?

20:33:06 ascii_field: http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2protocol

20:33:08 assbot: The PS/2 Mouse/Keyboard Protocol ... ( http://bit.ly/1NB3XBb )

20:33:14 ascii_field: http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2protocol/waveform3.jpg

20:33:15 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NB3Xkw )

20:33:33 ascii_field: (and if you don't have a ps/2 jack you don't have a computer, sorry)

20:33:50 Chillum: that usb2ps2 converter is surely NSA tampered

20:35:20 Chillum: I think you would want some level of error correction built in

20:36:27 ascii_field: redundancy also works.

20:36:55 nubbins`: !up ascii_field

20:36:57 thestringpuller: !up ascii_field

20:37:00 nubbins`: raced ya

20:37:03 thestringpuller: :P

20:38:09 ascii_field: Chillum: re: tampered keyboard adapters: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2015#1044644 << mandatory reading

20:38:09 assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 23:41:18; asciilifeform: it is absolutely essential, to understand what is being spoken of here, to go back to the thread about the specificity of hardware-diddling.

20:38:25 ascii_field: including linked thread.

20:38:50 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83100 @ 0.00026972 = 22.4137 BTC [+]

20:39:06 ascii_field: and ask yourself the question, when contemplating whether a piece of hardware could have been boobytrapped - what would you, in the place of the enemy, place as the payload ?

20:39:37 ascii_field: that is, that 1) yields something useful 2) in a situation that is actually likely to play out 3) isn't embarrassingly obvious

20:39:40 Chillum: buy hardware first, become target of major government second

20:40:00 ascii_field: Chillum: how does that work if it isn't already boobytrapped

20:40:00 Chillum: of course there is the act of making all adapters a bit noisy by poor design so it can be picked up on radio

20:40:02 ascii_field: telepathy ?

20:40:12 ascii_field: noisy - sure

20:40:21 ascii_field: i can pick up my keyboard from 50+ metres

20:40:32 ascii_field: (see log)

20:40:39 *: Chillum wants a room sized Faraday cage

20:41:06 ascii_field: Chillum: what of the mains wiring ?

20:41:06 Chillum: though a cold wallet sized Faraday cage is a more reasonable endeavour

20:41:12 ascii_field: the mains is the hard part

20:41:27 Chillum: Do UPS battery packs help?

20:41:41 ascii_field: commercial cells are good for a few dozen cycles, max.

20:42:05 ascii_field: tend to lose half or so capacity after five or six.

20:42:09 Chillum: surely there must be something that can either clean the signal or noise it up so much you can't see anything else

20:42:26 ascii_field: Chillum: there is. but not cheap.

20:42:30 ascii_field: and not available to consumers.

20:42:42 ascii_field: you will have to actually understand the physics. and build it

20:42:47 Chillum: I am thinking the power systems for RVs, they run a lot and I think they can be charged from the mains

20:42:50 ascii_field: the 'cage' per se is the easy part.

20:43:11 ascii_field: Chillum: rv has engine, alternator.

20:43:27 Chillum: yes, but at least some of them you can plug into utilities while parked

20:43:56 ascii_field: afaik they use traditional lead-acid batteries.

20:44:01 ascii_field: which are quite the same as ups battery.

20:44:11 Chillum: if you only discharge a vehicle battry 20% before charging it they last a good amount of time

20:44:20 Chillum: they don't like to be deeply drained though

20:44:44 Chillum: there are a lot of <10 watt computers

20:45:11 Chillum: charge one battery, use another. Then switch. No signals should get out then

20:45:21 Chillum: not through the wire at least

20:45:40 ascii_field: re: qr: finally found the paper i was looking for: https://www.sba-research.org/wp-content/uploads/publications/qrinception.pdf

20:45:40 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NB738a )

20:45:59 *: Chillum saves the url for later, I don't load pdfs on this computer

20:46:01 ascii_field: ^ describes 'qr in qr' attack

20:46:09 ascii_field: with examples.

20:46:36 Chillum: a lot of readers can have their mode changed to accept other types of codes by giving it a special UPC

20:46:54 Chillum: so if it is set to UPC only you can still activate QR and inject long strings, which a lot of software does not expect

20:47:41 Chillum: one of my favorite defcon talks of all time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT_gwl1drhc

20:47:43 assbot: DEFCON 16: Toying with Barcodes - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NB7uPR )

20:48:06 ascii_field: a traditional barcode can be decoded with your eyes, and some patience, to verify. try this with qr.

20:48:29 Chillum: yes, you can see that each number is the same pattern of lines

20:48:40 Chillum: qr is meant to be dense, not simple

20:50:41 ascii_field: the correct way to do 2-dimensional barcodes would be 1) traditional barcode laser pen, combined with 2) something like a small gramophone

20:51:00 Chillum: he shows how to turn on multi-code qrs, then mysql inject a computer attached to the reader

20:51:01 ascii_field: that way 1) reader is analogue, as the gods intended

20:51:10 Chillum: example of a reader being too smart

20:51:11 ascii_field: and 2) there is no 'picture in picture' idiocy possible

20:51:40 ascii_field: Chillum: that isn't the fault of the barcode gizmo, now, is it.

20:51:51 ascii_field: Chillum: may as well presume a winblows xp box, etc.

20:52:01 Chillum: the gizmo allowed special codes from the public manual to turn on features that were supposed to be off

20:52:15 Chillum: so it shares some of the fault

20:52:36 ascii_field: this is why i suggested an analogue driver of ps/2 kbd lines

20:52:36 Chillum: it went from fixed length only to variable length. The software was a fool to trust it though

20:52:51 ascii_field: it cannot behave as anything other than a keyboard. no matter how much it wants to.

20:53:26 Chillum: can it send keys like ctrl-alt-sysreq??

20:53:32 Chillum: a keyboard can do a lot of damage

20:53:42 ascii_field: Chillum: if your machine has magic keys, your problem

20:53:56 Chillum: rs232 seems better

20:54:02 ascii_field: also works

20:54:27 ascii_field: but harder!

20:54:29 ascii_field: because no clock.

20:54:35 ascii_field: rs232 is asynchronous

20:54:46 Chillum: I would use an arduino nano or something to decode and tx the data

20:54:50 ascii_field: i mentioned ps/2 kbd for specifically that reason

20:54:53 ascii_field: Chillum: NO

20:54:57 ascii_field: not analogue.

20:54:58 Chillum: you can use audit-able code

20:55:05 Chillum: so what?

20:55:09 ascii_field: why do this when you can have -no- code ?

20:55:12 ascii_field: the best code is no code.

20:55:22 Chillum: you are using the ps/2 driver for your code

20:55:52 Chillum: what about the bios? if the device is reset can you send keystrokes to the bios?

20:55:52 ascii_field: Chillum: read the specificity principle discussion linked earlier

20:56:03 Chillum: keyboard seems risky

20:56:32 Chillum: at least you need an OS present before the rs232 is read, keyboards are read before the OS is loaded

20:56:57 ascii_field: Chillum: why on earth would you spin the gramophone attached to a computer with no os loaded ?

20:57:09 Chillum: hostile user?

20:57:25 ascii_field: hostile user picks up the machine and takes it home.

20:57:38 Chillum: the device can have physical security with only a rs232 port within reach

20:57:40 ascii_field: he doesn't belong in any discussion of computer security.

20:57:58 Chillum: sorry, but a guy at the computer being hostile is certainly part of real word computer security

20:57:59 ascii_field: 'hostile user' connects it to mains.

20:58:19 mats: lol...

20:58:23 ascii_field: http://geekotic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/image37.png

20:58:25 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NB9YOm )

20:58:25 Chillum: could be an inside job, bad employee

20:58:37 Chillum: lolm, that will do damage

20:58:48 ascii_field: IRRELEVANT to discussion of barcode machine.

20:59:40 Chillum: Well if I build something like this I won't hook the user input up to the port that controls the bios

21:00:00 Chillum: the keyboard port is basically the ultimate authority

21:00:37 ascii_field: Chillum: if your keyboard is 'ultimate authority' at all times, your system is misconfigured and you deserve to be owned.

21:00:56 Chillum: again, reboot, press F1, adjust bios

21:01:16 Chillum: I suppose you could put a bios password in, and disable all kernal triggers

21:01:18 ascii_field: Chillum: again, if i can sit down at your keyboard and immediately reboot, your box is misconfigured and you deserve to be owned.

21:01:24 Chillum: and find everywhere else modern OS's access the keyboard

21:01:35 Chillum: or you could use RS232 with a little microcontroller to read the upc

21:02:06 ascii_field: Chillum: if your box can be rebooted or otherwise interestingly reconfigured without root pw, you deserve to be owned.

21:02:18 ascii_field: if you play gramophone into a root shell, you deserve to be owned.

21:02:56 Chillum: I am not confident I could find every single thing that reads the keyboard. I am confident I can secure rs232

21:03:23 nubbins`: mildly on-topic, my old man is into woodworking and occasionally sends me links to wooden computers

21:03:28 Chillum: at the very least I would want a filter to remove any non-printable keystrokes

21:03:29 ascii_field: Chillum: i'm surprised that you have not suggested reconstructing the baud clock using analogue means

21:03:34 ascii_field: which is the actual best solution to this

21:03:38 ascii_field: and lets you use rs232

21:03:44 nubbins`: big ol' adders and stuff

21:04:25 Chillum: punch cards?

21:04:40 nubbins`: https://woodgears.ca/marbleadd/index.html

21:04:41 assbot: Binary marble adding machine ... ( http://bit.ly/19zlVaf )

21:04:43 nubbins`: marbles

21:04:59 ascii_field: nubbins`: https://archive.org/details/tinkertoycomputer00dewd

21:05:01 assbot: The Tinkertoy computer and other machinations : Dewdney, A. K : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive ... ( http://bit.ly/19zm2T8 )

21:05:19 Chillum: A.K. Dewdney is awesome

21:05:34 Chillum: The Planiverse is a cool book

21:05:44 Chillum: modern version of Flatland

21:07:18 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127957 @ 0.00026972 = 34.5126 BTC [+]

21:08:45 Chillum: if you do use the keyboard port create a ps/2 fuzzer with the arduino ps/2 library. Send it all kinds of random stuff, see if you can cause unexpected behavior.

21:08:58 Chillum: fuzzing will find all kinds of stuff a careful search of an OS/codebase will

21:09:00 Chillum: not

21:09:17 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:09:21 ascii_field: Chillum: good student project

21:10:00 ascii_field: Chillum: you don't even need a microcontroller. can bitbang ps/2 trivially with parallel port of another machine nearby.

21:10:39 Chillum: I was thinking something like a Digispark, probably cost about the same as the parallel/ps2 cable

21:10:52 ascii_field: it costs 0

21:10:59 ascii_field: dive into your junk bin.

21:11:25 Chillum: that is a way to go

21:11:48 ascii_field: Chillum: i thought it was obvious that this is not a commercially-available device.

21:12:04 Chillum: I want to make a digispark that when plugged in to usb sends a very long password from the eeprom, then erases it several times

21:12:18 Chillum: eeprom erasure is not perfect but it is better than most mediums

21:12:57 mircea_popescu: why even put it in the eeprom at all.

21:12:57 Chillum: yes that was obvious

21:13:09 Chillum: it won't have power when it is not plugged in

21:14:15 mircea_popescu: notbad.jpg

21:14:23 Chillum: the idea is that you load the key with a password in secure location A, then you got to insecure location B, use it to start a computer and it erases itself

21:14:51 mircea_popescu: but ...

21:14:56 Chillum: TPM would be crucial

21:14:59 mircea_popescu: maybe this hasn't been thoroughly thought through.

21:15:11 mircea_popescu: what in insecure location b prevents it from making a copy of your key ?

21:15:46 Chillum: TPM monitored OS, and physical security. You don't want your cold wallet to have its keys in plaintext

21:16:28 Chillum: it could also be used to send a payload to a system and remove evidence

21:16:35 Chillum: of what the payload was, or that you had it

21:17:12 mircea_popescu: seems like a not-so-insecure b.

21:17:15 BingoBoingo: !up SquirtPrincess

21:17:24 Chillum: all passwords can be stolen if you use them, we still use them

21:17:35 Chillum: the alternative is no password, no need to even steal it

21:18:00 mircea_popescu: i'm just unsure of what problem you're attacking, but anyway.

21:18:35 ascii_field: Chillum: tpm is a scam

21:18:35 Chillum: what problem does a hammer solve? This is a general purpose tool for sending a text payload as a keyboard and erasing itself

21:18:47 ascii_field: Chillum: it exists solely to 'secure' the system against -you-, the owner.

21:18:52 ascii_field: for the benefit of microshit

21:18:55 mircea_popescu: Chillum butif you trusat the tpm in the first place,

21:19:00 mircea_popescu: why do you even need your cooked digispark

21:19:07 Chillum: I am sure there is a master key out there

21:19:23 mircea_popescu: your aproach to security is very strange.

21:19:32 Chillum: I was thinking the same thing

21:19:44 mircea_popescu: in any case : a hammer is not a good analogy for your item.

21:19:51 mircea_popescu: a self-licking icecream cone perhaps better.

21:19:55 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: thread was originally about my dislike for qr and gedankenexperiment involving a more reasonable means of encoding machine-readable bits on paper.

21:19:55 mircea_popescu: it does... something.

21:20:13 mircea_popescu: ima catch up on logs in a sec

21:21:09 mircea_popescu: o hey SquirtPrincess wants to boobs ?

21:21:14 Chillum: its white hat applications are limited, but lots of black hat applications

21:21:23 SquirtPrincess: thxs <3

21:21:38 SquirtPrincess: sure do

21:21:45 mircea_popescu: so your prior work ? got a link ?

21:21:56 SquirtPrincess: i need like 15 mins though <3

21:22:00 mircea_popescu: aite.

21:22:04 mircea_popescu: i'll be here for a while.

21:22:17 nubbins`: understatement

21:22:20 mircea_popescu: Chillum isn't that even on the face improbable ? if it doesn't work for one or the other it wouldn't work in general.

21:22:23 SquirtPrincess: prior work would my niteflirt account or camsdotcom or nakeddotcom work

21:22:29 mircea_popescu: link.

21:23:11 Chillum: what do you mean? You could plug it in and it could in a matter of seconds download and install something onto a windoze box and then erase the evididence. Would be useful to any blackhat or penn tester

21:23:35 ascii_field: Chillum: out of curiosity, why do you take an interest in what happens to winblows boxes ?

21:24:00 Chillum: people use windows

21:24:02 mircea_popescu: could be cheaper to just rent a boix.

21:24:04 Chillum: sad I know

21:24:06 *: ascii_field does, for instance. but this is because some people pay him very good money for it

21:24:14 SquirtPrincess: https://www.niteflirt.com/listings/show/9958923-Lonely-waiting-for-my-phone-to-ring-playinon-Skype.

21:24:15 assbot: Phone Sex | The Best Phone Sex & Live Web Cam | NiteFlirt ... ( http://bit.ly/19zsEB0 )

21:24:24 nubbins`: ascii_field does, for instance. but this is because some people pay him very good money for it <<< /me did for same

21:24:25 ascii_field: caring what happens, that is. there is not enough money in the world to pay me to -use- winblows

21:24:38 Chillum: windows is something victims use

21:24:47 nubbins`: i used to work with a guy who brought his own mac pro to the office and ran windows in a vm

21:24:49 nubbins`: no joke

21:25:08 Chillum: I need to smoke something

21:25:48 mircea_popescu: iirc ascii_field did something similar.

21:26:27 ascii_field: emulators, virtualizers, etc. - many ways to do it

21:26:30 ascii_field: when must

21:26:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 213650 @ 0.00025559 = 54.6068 BTC [-] {4}

21:27:04 ascii_field: most folks in the business have a few dedicated physical boxes, also (with removable hdd, segregated net, etc)

21:27:26 mircea_popescu: https://biancabibiri.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/generoasa.jpg << this, incidentally, is like the icon of poverty.

21:27:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/19ztJbM )

21:27:47 mircea_popescu: bad titjob in cheap dress, among a rural setting being transformed into high density "houses".

21:30:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080651 << yeah, exponentially. look at the demographic history of the americas if unconvinced.

21:30:11 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 11:37:20; nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> if only. humans don't actually breed like that. <<< what, exponentially? o.O

21:30:14 ascii_field: mircea_popescu et al: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/kingston/mlwg2 << ~30 usd qty. 1

21:30:14 assbot: Kingston Mobilelite Wireless MLWG2 [OpenWrt Wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdLom3 )

21:31:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080655 << but it does EXACTLY model an intelligent designer. quite literally : it is intelligent, and it creates the world as described in bible.

21:31:42 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 11:43:48; nubbins`: rather than lame ol' intelligent design

21:32:32 nubbins`: oh pssh, "intelligent design" leaves the construction of said intelligence out of the picture

21:32:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080671 << i wish they stopped abusing children with this freakshow circus act business.

21:32:33 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 13:28:56; nubbins`: "I discovered Bitcoin before fiat money since my Bitcoin wallet is 4 years old and my bank account is 1." -17 year old Louison Dumont, founder of Bitproof.io, on ZapChain AMA

21:32:44 nubbins`: if they had a good backstory for THAT, maybe

21:32:49 mircea_popescu: nubbins` only because the people normally discussing it lack any experience of intelligence.

21:32:54 nubbins`: :D

21:33:12 nubbins`: more like magic design, amirite?

21:33:29 mircea_popescu: well, as deedee aptly put it, "do with your magic science or something!"

21:34:16 mircea_popescu: holy shit the only google reference to that is a logs link.

21:34:27 nubbins`: i ran into this situation twice in the past two days

21:34:29 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: welcome to the club

21:34:32 mircea_popescu: anyway, dexter's laboratory was this great show from the 2nd golden age of animation (animaniacs, etc)

21:34:34 *: ascii_field runs into this daily

21:34:37 nubbins`: haha

21:34:46 mircea_popescu: dexter was a boy jenius, his sister dee dee was kind-of a 7 yo model of a valley girl

21:34:50 nubbins`: eventually google search results for any topic will link to log

21:34:54 mircea_popescu: and her relation to "technologee" was... well... of this nature.

21:35:01 nubbins`: ah yes, deedee!

21:35:07 nubbins`: my laborrahtory!

21:35:33 nubbins`: incidentally, samurai jack

21:35:45 mats: Chillum ruined today's logs

21:35:53 mircea_popescu: he's new.

21:36:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080673 << ahahahaha

21:36:51 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 13:29:56; nubbins`: i discovered my asshole before my mouth because my mouth is 33 years old and my new buttplug is 5.

21:36:54 Chillum: don't worry, I will drink the coolaid before too long

21:37:15 nubbins`: please don't

21:37:23 mircea_popescu: clearly, this person should be in charge of ^H^H^H used as a front for a thing intended to be marketed to the sort of idiots who like to hear this sort o fnonsense. you know, like randi zuckerberg going to davos.

21:37:44 mircea_popescu: Chillum think of this place as virginity club. we definitely encourage all the young'uns to keep theirs.

21:37:48 mircea_popescu: mysteriously, they don't.

21:38:57 mircea_popescu: anyway, i find it quite morally dubioous and in any case aesthetically abhorrent, to see the structural mental issues of adolescents used in this manner.

21:39:08 mats: it doesn't have anything to do with koolaid

21:39:28 mircea_popescu: the teacher telling an insecure teen she's pretty to fuck her at least uses her naturally. the idiots telling this kid he's creative and intelligent and so on are abusing him and going against nature.

21:39:34 Chillum: it is just an expression which means to accept the ideas of a group

21:39:55 Chillum: very few kids are creative or intelligent, but some are

21:39:57 mircea_popescu: Chillum i thought it had to do with identity.

21:40:04 mircea_popescu: no kids are either, nor could they be.

21:40:15 Chillum: adults for that matter

21:40:25 mircea_popescu: there do certainly exist kids who MIGHT , once they're adults, be creative or intelligent.

21:40:35 mircea_popescu: but no children can be either creative or intelligent. being childen is a full time job.

21:40:44 mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why there's no more child labour.

21:40:51 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 205900 @ 0.00024955 = 51.3823 BTC [-] {5}

21:41:01 Chillum: so Ludwig van Beethoven was not creative until he was an adult?

21:41:12 mircea_popescu: you're looking for mozart.

21:41:50 Chillum: Beethoven's musical talent was obvious at a young age

21:41:52 Chillum: mozart too

21:41:54 mircea_popescu: sure.

21:42:19 mircea_popescu: but in b's case that "very young" is mostly 20s.

21:42:25 mircea_popescu: which yes was rare.

21:42:38 mircea_popescu: in m's case is more like.,.. 12. but note that his father DID exploit him as a monkey act

21:42:43 mircea_popescu: with the entire array of ill effects.

21:42:55 Chillum: I would say the a low percentage of adults are creative or intelligent, and a lower non-zero person of children too

21:43:05 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:43:11 Chillum: really clever kids exploit the adults, not the other way around

21:43:18 ascii_field: notice that nobody plays anything mozart wrote when 12.

21:43:31 ascii_field: it was good for 12 but bad mozart.

21:43:34 Chillum: I odn't know anyone who play mozart

21:43:34 mircea_popescu: ascii_field actually i ocasionally listen to his early stuff. it's not entirely unknoiwn.

21:43:40 ascii_field: i do also

21:43:41 mircea_popescu: where the heck do you live.

21:43:45 ascii_field: not -entirely- unknown

21:43:54 mircea_popescu: ascii_field it is generally a good way for postgrad level students to practice.

21:43:54 ascii_field: but not obsess-loved

21:45:05 *: ascii_field struggles to recall if mircea_popescu had an essay re: mozart's sister

21:45:18 mircea_popescu: now : mozart may well stand as an exception. the anonymous child with the idiotic "bitcoin website" is no mozart.

21:45:31 mircea_popescu: he's just an unfortunate soul with an abusive family that's being quite publicly raped.

21:46:02 mircea_popescu: if we're going to do public rape of children i'd rather see the sexual abuse of little girls, as unseemly that is, than this intellectual outrage.

21:47:21 mircea_popescu: mats might be chinese capital realligning for unfathomable reasons.

21:47:53 mircea_popescu: the russians did a lot of that in the 00s, pushing the various euros for whatever bizarro kremlin reasonings drove the oligarchs

21:48:03 mircea_popescu: !up SquirtPrincess

21:48:13 nubbins`: so local telco refuses to change the caller id on my landline to business name unless i run copper(!) to the house for $130 setup fee and sign up for a $60/mo POTS

21:49:03 jurov: no voip provider around?

21:49:20 nubbins`: jurov i currently have fiber to the door from same telco that includes home phone service

21:49:21 mircea_popescu: yeah, you actually using landline phones ?!

21:49:42 nubbins`: well, no. cordless phones, dead for ~6 months now.

21:49:51 nubbins`: so right now i'm paying $30/mo for a phone number i don't use

21:49:55 mircea_popescu: lolk.

21:49:57 *: ascii_field actually misses the voice quality of true non-ip landline phone

21:49:59 nubbins`: and i wanted to change it over to the business

21:50:07 nubbins`: but i apparently cannot do this

21:50:08 mircea_popescu: alternatively, make the lease in the corp name. they'll have to do it then.

21:50:22 nubbins`: what lease?

21:50:27 nubbins`: :D

21:50:30 mircea_popescu: you hold the place in some sort of form neh ?

21:50:36 mircea_popescu: squatting pinkeye ?

21:50:49 nubbins`: death pledge.

21:50:55 mircea_popescu: huh ?

21:50:58 nubbins`: mortgage

21:51:08 *: nubbins` "owns"

21:51:08 mircea_popescu: rent it to corp.

21:51:15 mircea_popescu: anyway, consult a lawyer.

21:51:35 mircea_popescu: you've unwound a bit of thread that indicates you're unoptimized in more ways than just phones.

21:51:43 jurov: wtf.. i have both cell and fiber signed on corporation without prob

21:51:57 jurov: (in my flat)

21:52:01 mircea_popescu: jurov you don't live in idiotaria, which im starting to think is what columbus actually discovered.

21:52:06 nubbins`: all i want is internet service to be billed to residential and phone service to be billed to business

21:52:25 nubbins`: i flatly cannot do this at the same rate as i could if both are residential

21:52:31 mircea_popescu: that's true.

21:52:45 nubbins`: this is all that's grinding my gears

21:52:58 nubbins`: they won't update an entry in a database

21:53:17 jurov: change your name to Pink Eye :D

21:53:22 nubbins`: heh :D

21:53:47 mircea_popescu: then he could go to a marathon and the announcer could say

21:53:58 mircea_popescu: and pink eye prints sprints, and he's got it ladies and gentlemen!

21:53:59 nubbins`: but then the caller id would say "Eye, Pink"

21:54:11 nubbins`: stink eye sprint company

21:54:25 chetty: http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/03/30/stockton-smart-meters-explode-after-truck-causes-power-surge/

21:54:26 assbot: Stockton Smart Meters Explode After Truck Causes Power Surge « CBS Sacramento ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdQ4Z0 )

21:54:27 mircea_popescu: you could change your name to Stink the Shrink

21:54:45 nubbins`: anyway IDGAF about uptime guarantees or *whatever the fuck* makes a business phone cost more

21:54:55 nubbins`: i just want a phone number that i can put in the YP, ya know?

21:54:55 mircea_popescu: what the hell do those meters do.

21:55:06 mircea_popescu: yp ?

21:55:23 ascii_field: chetty, mircea_popescu: we have these here.

21:55:27 ascii_field: gsm modem in each.

21:55:29 jurov: they retransmit keyboard emanations

21:55:41 ascii_field: there are no longer 'meter men' who come in person to read the number.

21:55:59 mircea_popescu: jurov wouldn't seem impossible.

21:56:05 ascii_field: oddly enough, the water meters don't have gsm

21:56:15 ascii_field: they have short-range radio and a stereotypical 'nsa van' has to come by

21:56:19 ascii_field: and read a street monthly

21:56:56 mircea_popescu: cause older ?

21:57:07 jurov: i have these too. but for whatever reason, dude had to come in anyway and connect it by usb

21:57:12 mircea_popescu: anyway, a) why wouldn't you surge protect what sounds pretty costly and b) what the fuck is in there to explode.

21:57:23 ascii_field: a) chinese

21:57:25 mircea_popescu: jurov whatever reason being you know, need jerbs.

21:57:29 ascii_field: b) the rectifier

21:57:53 mircea_popescu: oh oh

21:58:06 mircea_popescu: yeah, might as well put a rectifier in there if you're going to the trouble of modems and shit

21:58:11 ascii_field: it's a computerized gadget, like pogo

21:58:14 ascii_field: runs on dc

21:58:23 ascii_field: incidentally, has debug port

21:58:28 ascii_field: (see 'defcon' talk a few yrs ago)

21:58:40 chetty: just another little piece of the control grid, but apparently this piece is also hazardous to your health and property

21:59:24 ascii_field: and even in the old days, sc4mz0rz often masqueraded as 'meter men'

21:59:34 ascii_field: the fine tradition continues today.

21:59:56 mircea_popescu: !up freeborn

21:59:57 chetty: now they can just drive by and tell if anyone is home to case the joint

22:00:12 ascii_field: chetty: no need to even drive

22:00:19 mircea_popescu: listen freeborn, get in the wot, and note that as eulora is coming out these coming days, we'll be looking for people to maintain binaries.

22:00:21 ascii_field: chetty: gsm modem, remember

22:00:30 jurov: if it used power source design with capacitors, they do explode on overvoltage

22:00:53 mircea_popescu: ascii_field nah, these days scamzors masquerade as "special agents"

22:01:00 ascii_field: jurov: incidentally, this is SOP in cheapo dc gadgetry that runs off the mains

22:01:05 ascii_field: e.g. pNohe chargers

22:01:09 chetty: well I am sure the data is all there, basement of big buildings and all

22:01:12 ascii_field: transformerless design

22:01:18 ascii_field: very sensitive to spikes

22:01:19 mircea_popescu: speaking of which bit : the guy made, according to court documents, a very cushy 20k A MONTH. which, let it be noted, is a lot more than media whores a la sam altman actually take home.

22:01:35 mircea_popescu: now consider that this man was willing to throw away the goodwill of the behemoth for simply... three times that, and tell me

22:01:42 mircea_popescu: what does the devil have to pay force to love him ?

22:01:55 chetty: a dime?

22:01:56 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: he wasn't just working for the 20k

22:02:01 ascii_field: but for being man, not muppet

22:02:10 ascii_field: if only secretly under his blanket

22:02:10 mircea_popescu: heh.

22:02:23 ascii_field: there are many who betray for free

22:02:27 ascii_field: just to have agency

22:02:38 ascii_field: in ussr - dozens

22:02:41 ascii_field: (that we even know of)

22:02:49 mircea_popescu: how many of these are there ? (all of them, within reasonable tolerance). how many of these are more than willing to work under a power's blanket, if that power's powerful, rather than their own ? (a bunch)

22:02:52 mircea_popescu: and so there we go.

22:03:00 ascii_field: and thousands of minor malingerers who wanted to do something - anything - to fuck the beast

22:03:06 mircea_popescu: everyone could have problems. usg's actually got problems.

22:03:49 chetty: well given that the rule of law is no more, no reason not to have a little 'fun'

22:03:50 mircea_popescu: and there you have the chief importance of snowden, strategically : he drove home the fear.

22:03:50 ascii_field: wake me up when it has problems taking half of what i earn.

22:04:05 ascii_field: and half again of what remains in other ways.

22:04:08 mircea_popescu: nobody in the usg can do anything anymore. it's not just that i have their home address and i know who their wife is fucking better than them.

22:04:12 mircea_popescu: it goes all the way to the fucking bones.

22:04:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170396 @ 0.00025713 = 43.8139 BTC [+] {3}

22:08:06 jurov: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-for-prison

22:08:07 assbot: Designing a Bitcoin system to use in prison | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdSN4E )

22:08:12 jurov: "When Dave paid John 25 MAK for a workout, every inmate in the yard would take out their notebook and jot down the transaction."

22:09:48 ascii_field: infuriating idiot pretending he invented publicly announced debts

22:09:48 mircea_popescu: ahahahaha win

22:10:00 ascii_field: (sop in ru and probably every prison on the planet since babylon at least0

22:10:05 mircea_popescu: ascii_field they're new.

22:10:24 mircea_popescu: next decade, they invent involuntary tattoos

22:10:30 mircea_popescu: first best ever.

22:11:22 ascii_field: and, the imbecile - i can understand. the press going along ?

22:11:47 mircea_popescu: o, that's their job. amplifying stupid is what the press does.

22:12:21 trinque: motherboard (vice) probably thinks they're being edgy having an article written by Shrem

22:12:31 mircea_popescu: defo

22:12:43 mircea_popescu: also, they think they're edgy giving him 50 cans o tuna or w/e they use,

22:12:55 mircea_popescu: and he's desperate for some capital, because jew boy really thinks that's how you survive prison

22:12:59 mircea_popescu: etc.

22:13:28 mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field

22:13:48 mircea_popescu: so these people here... they didn't like the set-up where the half week off for easter didn't bridge twoi weekends, so they called a general strike.

22:13:53 mircea_popescu: samba si, trabajo no!

22:15:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080875 << sounds like a broad rehash of stuff discussed here/on fraudsters last year or something.

22:15:02 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 18:53:48; ascii_field: ^ mega-l0l from, guess who, orlov; http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/license-to-kill.html

22:15:11 mircea_popescu: not that it's such a big deal to add 2 and 2 and get 4.

22:16:58 SquirtPrincess: sprry for the delay had unexpected company

22:17:09 SquirtPrincess: sorry*

22:19:16 mircea_popescu: dawg how hard is it to post a link.

22:19:26 mircea_popescu: !up SquirtPrincess

22:19:31 mircea_popescu: so, link to your prev work ?

22:19:35 SquirtPrincess: thxs <3

22:20:11 SquirtPrincess: https://www.niteflirt.com/listings/show/9958923-Lonely-waiting-for-my-phone-to-ring-playinon-Skype

22:20:12 assbot: Phone Sex | Lonely waiting for my phone to ring playinon Skype | NiteFlirt Phone Sex ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJLsUB )

22:21:34 SquirtPrincess: dies that work ?

22:21:39 SquirtPrincess: does*

22:21:55 mircea_popescu: no. previous work = pictures of you nude that you have previously published. this is not a 100x100px icon, and it is not a R rated thing.

22:22:13 SquirtPrincess: k one sec let me see

22:22:42 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo " This is not akin, for example, to two people using the same model of mobile phone but both having software that is out of date. Rather, the outdated version that both "French Maid" and FORCE (as Nob) used is more of a "signature" given the greater number of versions available." << such a bizarre notion, this.

22:22:54 SquirtPrincess: cams.com/SQITPRINCESS?fromsearch=1

22:23:00 mircea_popescu: how is it not exactly like having ... you know, a router that runs, as Chillum well points out, decade old binaries ?

22:24:00 mircea_popescu: SquirtPrincess you mean http://graphics.cams.com/images/streamray/streams/SQITPRINCESS.gif ? mno.

22:24:01 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJMgc6 )

22:24:30 SquirtPrincess: cyea im trying to find an r rated one

22:24:54 mircea_popescu: you know if you're trying to make a living with this you gotta have them like in a holster. like your business card.

22:25:54 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "increases the cost to and adversary and might permit" <<

22:26:08 mircea_popescu: "or simple hoping for the best." << simply ?

22:26:25 mircea_popescu: because they word about various turds <<

22:27:02 mircea_popescu: if your profession is law enforcement. << that law enforcement should be in scare quotes.

22:28:29 mircea_popescu: dude you need an editor!

22:29:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080972 << yup, cutting through it. gentoo box is mostly emerged,

22:29:11 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 20:16:34; chetty: well I guess eulora will get the ultimate test then, mp is planning on installing a copy on such a box soonish

22:29:31 SquirtPrincess: imgur.com/vT6gLTW,tVEerEx

22:29:39 SquirtPrincess: that ok ?

22:29:54 nubbins`: qntra needs an editor and foundation needs some more eyes

22:30:23 SquirtPrincess: http://imgur.com/tVEerEx

22:30:23 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJNzaV )

22:30:47 mircea_popescu: SquirtPrincess well normally no, because it's just a bodypart rather than you know, you. but at any rate, i'm feeling generous so, put ae654537 on your tits, take a picture, report back.

22:31:16 SquirtPrincess: alright thxs then do i just pm you my BTC address

22:31:27 mircea_popescu: you can post it here just as well.

22:31:35 mircea_popescu: that way people can see you've actually been paid.

22:31:59 nubbins`: dat transparency

22:32:02 SquirtPrincess: great be back in a min <3

22:32:30 SquirtPrincess: i trust you, was checking previous posts <3

22:32:49 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080995 << dawg srsly, go type my pubkey.

22:32:49 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 20:21:35; ascii_field: fingers.

22:33:14 mircea_popescu: be there for the whole day. shit's hard work.

22:35:24 nubbins`: the true test of touch-typing skill

22:35:35 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1081008 << consider, if you can do the linear without a cpu, you can do the square one also without a cpu, will need a bank of linear readers instead. the reason this is not done is because bitmap interpretation is cheaper

22:35:35 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 20:23:48; ascii_field: Chillum: barcode reader is simple enough conceptually that it doesn't need a cpu.

22:36:18 mircea_popescu: nubbins` have you ever lelled at the circumstance that if one ever sees pgp used like we use it, it's invariably with a ridoinculous line-and-a-half signature ?

22:36:30 mircea_popescu: i guess lots of touch-typist-securitists out there.

22:36:38 nubbins`: oh man, where did i see the tiniest sig ever the other day...

22:36:46 nubbins`: it srsly was like 3 lines

22:36:50 mircea_popescu: i was like... o look how nice, he did that on the toilet.

22:39:26 jurov: square reader without cpu? thjat is interesting, hope you don't mean scanning line-by-line with linear one?

22:39:33 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo o look, we progressed to "fictitious exchange" ?

22:39:45 mircea_popescu: jurov why not ? and no, i said have a bank of them

22:39:46 mircea_popescu: but same idea.

22:40:39 pete_dushenski: cazalla BingoBoingo for qntra's consideration : http://dpaste.com/0PFR82J

22:40:40 assbot: dpaste: 0PFR82J: March 31, 2015 article, by pete ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJPwnN )

22:40:50 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo pity it's the same 2-3 derps that keep pushing it. i recall some goon or other was having fun with them on tardstalk last year. "really, it's not mps fault X scammer touched you"

22:40:51 pete_dushenski: ^more troubles at bitpay

22:41:43 jurov: ;;seen evoorhees

22:41:43 gribble: evoorhees was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 36 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <evoorhees> I need to go for now, on later

22:42:41 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski speaking of which, didn't the bowl thing they sponsored ditch the bitcoin logo recently ?

22:42:57 pete_dushenski: haha! that's the article in fact

22:43:01 mircea_popescu: ah ok.

22:43:03 mircea_popescu: lol

22:43:17 pete_dushenski: i didn't see it in the logs, figured it was freshish

22:43:20 mircea_popescu: i guess they read the logs, looked up this new word "roi", had a mindblow.

22:43:51 mircea_popescu: it is fresh enough, sure. i dun think we really give much of a shit about any particular derps, so kinda wide grate.

22:43:55 pete_dushenski: makes you wonder how business worked before logs were invented

22:44:55 pete_dushenski: wide grate, yes, and seeing the balloon get pricked is pretty satisfying

22:47:51 pete_dushenski: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-for-prison << shrem derping from behind bars.

22:47:52 assbot: Designing a Bitcoin system to use in prison | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdSN4E )

22:48:03 pete_dushenski: bitcoin+cans of fish = the future of money!

22:48:04 mircea_popescu: yeah that was in log

22:48:10 pete_dushenski: oops

22:48:25 nubbins`: duod do you even ;/

22:48:50 pete_dushenski: i wasn't that far down yet!

22:50:18 mircea_popescu: !up SquirtPrincess

22:52:03 SquirtPrincess: thxs had to find a sharpie that would work uploading now <3

22:52:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1081143 << this actually happened. once upon a time, to save on money, people working on a very expensive piece of machinery used a power plug slot to connect a data interface.

22:52:13 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 20:57:59; ascii_field: 'hostile user' connects it to mains.

22:52:25 pete_dushenski: heya Pierre_Rochard

22:52:31 mircea_popescu: then a week later the thing blew, because the cleanning lady disconnected the power and the data sockets, and reconnected them backwards.

22:53:17 Pierre_Rochard: heya pete_dushenski. Contravex gonna sponsor st pete’s bowl this year?

22:53:42 pete_dushenski: i dunno...

22:53:53 pete_dushenski: i hear there's this roi thing that businesses are supposed to worry about

22:54:05 mircea_popescu: lol

22:54:10 pete_dushenski: i figure it might also apply to self-funded blogs

22:54:12 mircea_popescu: it's ok, having no income simplifies things :D

22:54:37 SquirtPrincess: imgur.com/WxUHGwV,WdCWKfE,NA5kWea,MwtIflI#1

22:54:41 Pierre_Rochard: nah, VCs give you money so that you stimulate the economy

22:54:46 mircea_popescu: but anyway, my two bits would be : do not sponsor the stupid shit of the old world. so what if the plebs like to watch basketball ? we don't like plebs.

22:54:47 SquirtPrincess: http://imgur.com/NA5kWea

22:54:48 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1agtCmq )

22:55:01 mircea_popescu: invent new shnit, like sponsor kicking around enemy's severed head competition.

22:55:05 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu well only since you stole ben_vulpes's precious time from vanads and repurposed it towards that foundation thingy

22:55:07 SquirtPrincess: here you go http://imgur.com/WxUHGwV

22:55:08 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1agtGCS )

22:55:15 pete_dushenski: LOT OF GOOD THAT'S GONNA DO.

22:55:16 Pierre_Rochard: because you see, one guy buys the sponsorship, ESPN buys some apps, VC makes money, circulate circulate

22:55:36 SquirtPrincess: address is 1AZ4S94SNWvrNp1JvdvmHHZS4NeaKuyGEc

22:55:37 mircea_popescu: SquirtPrincess address ?

22:55:44 SquirtPrincess: 1AZ4S94SNWvrNp1JvdvmHHZS4NeaKuyGEc

22:56:16 SquirtPrincess: http://imgur.com/MwtIflI

22:56:16 assbot: Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1agtT8W )

22:56:33 Pierre_Rochard: my view is bitcoin is a macro-economic phenomena. Advertising it makes as much sense as advertising for a housing crisis in 2005. Throwing away money

22:56:38 SquirtPrincess: may not be the best but i think the biggest i've seen on here lol

22:57:20 pete_dushenski: hm, what other sports can b-a sponsor ? i vote for jai alai

22:57:22 mircea_popescu: well, "best". what's best.

22:57:33 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski well, sponsor w/e you want, you know ?

22:57:48 pete_dushenski: true enough.

22:57:51 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard this is pretty apt actually.

22:57:59 mircea_popescu: "let's advertise for the industrial revolution111!!!"

22:58:03 pete_dushenski: but that's step 2, step 1: income!

22:58:04 SquirtPrincess: well guess that in the eye of the beholder

22:58:52 pete_dushenski: sovereign debt needs advertising more than bitcoin

22:59:03 Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: indeed, larry ellison was not sponsoring America’s Cup boats in the late 70’s

22:59:47 pete_dushenski: ya, sponsoring is for later in life, post-productive years. like charity.

22:59:49 Pierre_Rochard: how much did putin pay you for the russian debt informercial you ran earlier? ;)

23:00:03 pete_dushenski: lol

23:00:29 pete_dushenski: what is this, "disclose all your interests" day ?

23:00:31 nubbins`: boost is huge

23:00:54 mircea_popescu: but yeah, "advertising" will probably survive in the charity part.

23:01:54 Pierre_Rochard: silly sponsorships aside, here’s where some un-named startups are really derping: http://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology

23:01:56 assbot: Dan McKinley :: Choose Boring Technology ... ( http://bit.ly/1aguSGd )

23:02:08 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard my putin pump obviously worked, russia pulled back from 17% to 14% since my article

23:02:18 pete_dushenski: great success

23:02:23 mircea_popescu: lol winctory.

23:02:50 Pierre_Rochard: next conference: pete_dushenski’s russian dacha

23:03:16 mircea_popescu: dacha is kinda designed for man wife and girlfriend. du nthink the lot of us would fit.

23:03:41 pete_dushenski: we can probably squeeze into the penthouse at the four seasons st petersberg

23:03:52 Pierre_Rochard: well we’ll settle for that then

23:04:20 pete_dushenski: this is for the 11th conference, ya ?

23:04:59 mircea_popescu: i dunno that the russians want our moneyz!

23:05:54 pete_dushenski: well mebbe you should ask them before assuming things.

23:06:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 391200 @ 0.00024774 = 96.9159 BTC [-] {3}

23:06:32 mircea_popescu: hehe i guess

23:06:44 mircea_popescu: SquirtPrincess yer welcome.

23:08:21 SquirtPrincess: <3 if you need any more or some kitty shots let me know thxs <3

23:09:55 mircea_popescu: aha.

23:10:11 mircea_popescu: where di you hear about it anyway ?

23:12:21 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114600 @ 0.00024739 = 28.3509 BTC [-]

23:17:01 ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [22:00] now consider that this man was willing to throw away the goodwill of the behemoth for simply... three times that, and tell me << keep in mind he came from the DEA, the most notoriously corrupt arm of the militarized 'anti-drug' brigade.

23:17:44 ben_vulpes: and i suspect this IRS action to be in line with (asciilifeform? decimation? mircea_popescu?)'s forcast that bitcoin will split the g-men who can from the g-men who can't

23:17:55 mircea_popescu: yeah well...

23:18:10 ben_vulpes: DEA being very accustomed to "doing things their way", and the IRS wanting a rather tight grip on the bitcoin thing.

23:18:52 mircea_popescu: i suppose the only thing to do

23:18:55 mircea_popescu: is a new department.

23:19:23 SquirtPrincess: sorry was smoking

23:19:46 SquirtPrincess: i was searching for tits for bits and it was like the 4th or 5th link down

23:19:56 mircea_popescu: a hey.

23:20:02 mircea_popescu: so do you make a living at the cam thing ?

23:20:13 SquirtPrincess: thought forsure i was too late, looked like an old post

23:20:43 mircea_popescu: !up SquirtPrincess

23:21:35 SquirtPrincess: a living not really but extra income no doubt

23:21:48 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> dude you need an editor! << I really might, but things are fixed

23:22:10 SquirtPrincess: some weeks bring 700-800$ and others $100-200 but i only do it part-time

23:23:13 mircea_popescu: Naphex is running a b-a sanctioned webcam thing, maybe give it a look.

23:23:19 mircea_popescu: what was it, xotika.tv ?

23:23:34 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... gentoo box is mostly emerged, << congrats mircea_popescu !

23:23:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: welcome to (what remains of...) gentoo.

23:24:07 mircea_popescu: lol

23:24:22 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... dawg srsly, go type my pubkey. << not arguing that anyone should do this, but that qr as we know it defeats the purpose of optical barrier

23:24:25 mircea_popescu: such weird times we live

23:24:32 asciilifeform: because it's as computronic as any wired protocol

23:24:33 mircea_popescu: srsly, off debian ? is it a dream ?

23:24:35 SquirtPrincess: yea tits for bits no one's ever online so

23:24:41 asciilifeform: and in many ways more 'voodoo'

23:25:02 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i only recently encountered the "qr code in qr code" exploit family

23:25:06 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can do the square one also without a cpu, << not qr as we know it!! read the standard, srsly

23:25:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you will recall the discussion was a narrow use case : you print them, you use them etc.

23:25:10 asciilifeform: or have a pet read it, whoever

23:25:15 asciilifeform: it's quite complicated.

23:25:22 asciilifeform: often there is even compression.

23:25:33 mircea_popescu: nowhere was there any requirement you use the stock thing.

23:25:39 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo ^see gpg'd article above :)

23:26:11 SquirtPrincess: also if you didn;t get it from my name im a Squirter w/ Triple DDDs

23:26:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... kicking around enemy's severed head competition. << aztecs have stone patent.

23:26:31 jurov: i thought the requirement was you're able to visually(or otherwise) check what you're transmitting throught the gap?

23:26:42 jurov: or are going to learn reading qr?

23:27:45 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... dacha is kinda designed for man wife and girlfriend. << complicated. 'dacha' literally means '[that which is] given.' as in, granted as reward by the king. in soviet times, it was of course not 'given' (except to officials, but even then was not their personal property but more like obama's car.) but for normal folks, the standard was an unheated cabin and the regulation 100 sq. metres of garden.

23:28:23 asciilifeform: jurov: qr breaks most of what i think of as nice things about barcode

23:28:44 asciilifeform: e.g., human readable, but even if you can't be bothered to read - there is some rough correspondence between the length and the payload size

23:28:46 asciilifeform: with qr - no

23:28:53 asciilifeform: all qr look roughly alike

23:29:03 pete_dushenski: "Consider this bit of circumstantial evidence which the government which it alleges connects Force to one of his extortion sockpuppets" << this sentence is borked, BingoBoingo

23:30:11 asciilifeform: qr << and yes, i know what they are used for. but with the transparency they give, may as well be magnetic cards.

23:30:12 asciilifeform: or floppies.

23:30:53 mircea_popescu: actually, if you could have < 1kb floppies i'd prolly use those too.

23:31:01 asciilifeform: you can

23:31:11 asciilifeform: good with a knife ?

23:31:25 mircea_popescu: lol

23:31:36 asciilifeform: but in all seriousness - magstripe

23:31:39 asciilifeform: is a 1kb floppy.

23:31:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, that's the principal advantage set of the qr pass : 1) widely available for cheap 2) limited size.

23:32:08 mircea_popescu: this doesn't makle them fit for a wife. just, work for some purposes.

23:32:41 nubbins`: asciilifeform re: uint32_t : 0.5.3.1-RELEASE doesn't include portatronic patch from http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html

23:32:41 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CJV5HM )

23:33:01 mircea_popescu: did we end up with the first version control issue ?

23:33:25 mircea_popescu: SquirtPrincess so what DO you do for a living ?

23:34:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00024739 = 11.6273 BTC [-]

23:35:36 scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by pete_dushenski: http://qntra.net/2015/03/bitpay-showing-more-signs-of-trouble-no-longer-st-petersburg-bowl-sponsor/

23:35:44 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Article up, patch applied to other article

23:35:59 pete_dushenski: wunderbar!

23:38:19 mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski speaking of which, funny how the spam accounts overflowing reddit (specifically reddit, not any other random social spam platform) with news and commentary about the epocal all-important move of bitpay to waste some money

23:38:35 mircea_popescu: aren't now filling it with news and commentary about bitpay's neobee-esque failure mere months down the road.

23:38:45 SquirtPrincess: house work and cam

23:38:56 mircea_popescu: clearly reddit is a legitimate source of news and commentary where actual people post things that legitimately interest them.

23:39:05 mircea_popescu: SquirtPrincess what's house work ? like a maid ?

23:39:13 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu heh. quite.

23:40:04 Pierre_Rochard: I’ll let y’all know when my paycheck stops clearing

23:40:20 mircea_popescu: prolly the spring of next year.

23:40:25 mircea_popescu: kinda how springs work in bitcoin.

23:40:38 Pierre_Rochard: the old die, the young are born

23:40:43 SquirtPrincess: no just stay at home clean my house lol

23:40:46 Pierre_Rochard: ehrm conceived

23:40:48 mircea_popescu: oh.

23:41:09 SquirtPrincess: i did call center for a while

23:41:11 BingoBoingo: Prolly better that the Bitcoin Bowl ends after one game. At least it ended on a very watchable game.

23:41:24 SquirtPrincess: but f*ck that

23:41:31 mircea_popescu: does it suck worse than cam ?

23:41:48 mircea_popescu: and you're allowed to sday fuck

23:41:58 SquirtPrincess: rather deals w/ dicks online for good $$ then on the phone for tittle winks

23:42:25 mircea_popescu: doesn't pay so good ?

23:42:29 SquirtPrincess: deal w/ dicks either way lol

23:42:38 Pierre_Rochard: BingoBoingo: indeed, now we have cash for a nascar sponsorship! /s

23:43:02 SquirtPrincess: not like cams on naked its 4.99 a min and i get 50%

23:43:05 Pierre_Rochard: (btw bitpay already did that: http://www.coindesk.com/bitpay-sponsors-nascar-truck-series-driver/ )

23:43:06 assbot: BitPay Sponsors NASCAR Truck Series Driver ... ( http://bit.ly/1CJWCh6 )

23:43:17 BingoBoingo: Pierre_Rochard: I know BitPay is in the South, but... that seems a bit lowbrow...

23:44:18 mircea_popescu: so like 150 an hour or so... not bad. almost what force made.

23:44:36 Pierre_Rochard: BingoBoingo: “this demo doesn’t know anything about btc, clearly should be our target!”

23:45:23 mircea_popescu: in fairness, bitpay is probably the better in that space, on a purely ops/technical perspectrive.

23:45:32 mircea_popescu: coinbase srsly doesn't know what it's doing.

23:45:35 BingoBoingo: The great appeal of American Football is exactly a gladiator show. A gladiator show where fighting is disallowed, the competitors wear personal protective gear, and they are charged some how in spite of that still crippling their opposition. It is grand and it appeals across classes.

23:46:08 BingoBoingo: BitPay really should have just sprung for a New Years Day bowl game.

23:47:13 Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: well, both made it this far. As for technical side, it is an engineering tour de force to build a semi-functional accounting system on mongodb documents and node.js, no doubt

23:47:33 mircea_popescu: heh,

23:48:48 Pierre_Rochard: BingoBoingo: I would’ve opted for golf. Surely has highest % of decision-making people

23:49:21 mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard definitely. but i dunno who's in charge of spends there. they have nfi what the job even is.

23:49:34 ben_vulpes: a bitcoin messiah'd do pretty well in the south.

23:49:36 Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: they were let go

23:49:41 mircea_popescu: oic.

23:49:44 ben_vulpes: "it's gold! that the government can't take! or stop you sending!"

23:49:51 ben_vulpes: barring of course rectowhateverwhatever

23:50:06 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo on my qntra article there, it looks a bit odd on the front page without a "continue reading" link...

23:50:17 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes, if you're ready to drop 100mn on this, pick some random christian rock band from mobile, make a movie about the lead vocal, send them on tour,

23:50:26 mircea_popescu: a year later you've got dixiebitcoin in your pocket.

23:50:37 mircea_popescu: prolly not worth the 100mn, but hey.

23:50:46 pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard BingoBoingo golf, or tennis!

23:51:17 kakobrekla: anything that has to do with little balls.

23:51:17 mircea_popescu: tennis is more like libertard crowd. they live on govt grants. da fuck they want bitcoin.

23:51:22 mircea_popescu: !up SquirtPrincess

23:51:26 mircea_popescu: ahahahaha kakobrekla

23:51:34 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: fixd

23:51:56 pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo cool beans

23:52:11 Pierre_Rochard: alas, whatever the chairman/ceo is interested in is what gets sponsored. Those fancy seats ain’t free!

23:52:15 pete_dushenski: kakobrekla thems the decision makers!

23:52:20 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> tennis is more like libertard crowd. they live on govt grants. da fuck they want bitcoin. << Gold and Tennis are too expensive. Also no one watches tennis, bet only sport.

23:53:12 pete_dushenski: i know a buncha old dudes who watch (and play) tennis

23:53:31 BingoBoingo: Play yes, Bet yes, watch... rare

23:53:35 pete_dushenski: it's bnn (business news network) during the day, hockey in the evenings

23:53:39 pete_dushenski: tennis/golf on the weekends

23:54:02 pete_dushenski: they're all well heeled too

23:54:16 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 100m, though?

23:54:16 BingoBoingo: Now hockey maybe. All kinds of people can afford to sponsor hockey, also the ball is small and flat.

23:54:21 pete_dushenski: i don't see a lot of them making and taking bets, but they might have bookies.

23:54:25 ben_vulpes: just convince the band that it's god's gift to free humanity.

23:54:36 ben_vulpes: find the charismatic dude and convince him that he's the nth coming.

23:54:59 ben_vulpes: must be the murderous type, though.

23:55:10 pete_dushenski: in fact, i know that some of the older dentists have bookies

23:55:27 pete_dushenski: i dunno what it is about dentists and gambling, but they seem to be bosom pals

23:56:38 BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> in fact, i know that some of the older dentists have bookies << Dentists are also junkies. In his first year dentisting at the medicaid clinic my brother has twice has had other dentists forge prescriptions for themselves off of his numbers.

23:57:10 pete_dushenski: notbad.jpg

23:58:12 BingoBoingo: All together probably half a million dollars and 16 years of higher education time has been flushed by people who don't realize my brother is a boring square.

23:59:07 pete_dushenski: but a rich one!

23:59:18 pete_dushenski: assuming he's practising

23:59:24 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo people who don't dare tell the bitchy jewish princess girlfriend to moan like kournikova watch tennis.