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Transcript for 31-03-2016, 460 lines:

02:38:36 scoopbot: New post on Daniel P. Barron by Daniel: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/achieving-greater-freedom-in-this-finite-doomed-world/

02:45:59 kakobrekla: PeterL not to rain on your parade here, but mind moving the above fopdoodle off rss thingy?

02:58:11 danielpbarron: for all the hard time Mircea tries to give Christians, he at least allows for them: a voice. I'm not sure if it's ironic or not that with his departure, so goes the willingness to tolerate the Gospel

02:59:42 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: oh ffs kako didn't pull yer voice

03:00:21 danielpbarron: only a matter of time, no?

03:00:42 asciilifeform: i have nfi!

03:01:03 asciilifeform: i 'sit on 2 chairs with 1 arse' largely because i like chatting with kako. but i wonder what danielpbarron is doing here.

03:01:32 danielpbarron: same reason i load up farceb00k i guess: morbid curiousity

03:01:55 danielpbarron: and because nobody has bothered to kick me yet

03:01:56 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: pretty quiet lately. mega-log on schism day tho

03:02:02 asciilifeform: you might enjoy it

04:18:52 BingoBoingo: !up whaack

04:18:59 whaack: thanks

04:29:46 whaack: https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/announcing-a-900-000-bitcoin-developer-fund-6e8b7e8b0861 << some lulz for the chan

04:29:48 assbot: Announcing a $900,000 Bitcoin Developer Fund — MIT Media Lab Digital Currency Initiative — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1Y1qBc5 )

04:50:46 BingoBoingo: Anyone ever wonder what a Septic Cesarean Wound looks like on a morbidly obese patient? (obviously not safe for life) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e0/3a/9d/e03a9d0cf64140aba535faef7df1bb40.jpg

04:50:47 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UE0f2l )

05:05:41 mats: but where does babby go?

05:07:16 BingoBoingo: Was there any baby left?

08:37:39 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442290 < not only he allows for bullshit, he actively authors it. the former is prerequisite for the latter. and from my point of view, if i had to tolerate his, i had to tolerate yours - to a point at least. however i am now absolved from that and science can take over. if it actually will is another matter and largely depends on actual people doing it. remember, galileo didnt have it

08:37:39 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 02:58:11; danielpbarron: for all the hard time Mircea tries to give Christians, he at least allows for them: a voice. I'm not sure if it's ironic or not that with his departure, so goes the willingness to tolerate the Gospel

08:37:39 kakobrekla: easy either.

08:46:06 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442295 < the fact you like eating garbage is long established. however it appears i misjudged when i expected you still have some spine left. i will benevolently extend the offer for your seppuku for a little longer.

08:46:06 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 03:01:32; danielpbarron: same reason i load up farceb00k i guess: morbid curiousity

08:58:43 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442297 < sorry to disappoint. what can i say - low noise apparatuses is the way to go.

08:58:43 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 03:01:56; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: pretty quiet lately. mega-log on schism day tho

09:00:46 kakobrekla: naggums (would be) motto comes to mind here really

09:01:56 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442303 < bejesus! are you trying to kill off whatever little life is left here? :)

09:01:56 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 04:50:46; BingoBoingo: Anyone ever wonder what a Septic Cesarean Wound looks like on a morbidly obese patient? (obviously not safe for life) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e0/3a/9d/e03a9d0cf64140aba535faef7df1bb40.jpg

09:02:05 punkman: I don't mind a bit of noise, as long as there's enough content

09:02:53 kakobrekla: punkman well you still have the total freedom to choose

09:04:08 kakobrekla: but if the critical mass is missing, noise or content doesnt really happen. see a pack of sheep vs lonely wolf.

09:05:09 punkman: I see plenty of inert mass

09:05:43 kakobrekla: where? i see bunch of neutrinos.

09:06:13 kakobrekla: oh you meant the same. yeah.

09:06:21 kakobrekla: well, almost.

09:07:40 punkman: anyway, it was observable for quite some time that if you took out mp and alf's dialogue #b-a would be pretty quiet

09:08:00 kakobrekla: sure, im not arguing that.

09:09:26 punkman: hmm, davout's report is gone?

09:15:23 kakobrekla: while alf-mp debates are interesting, i dont find it valuable when whole chan of people goes quietly asserting someones hallucinations. in fact i find it has negative value.

09:16:55 kakobrekla: and moreover when those hallucination must be accepted for continued operation

09:20:14 kakobrekla: i guess everyone sets his own price on own sanity, freedom, self-respect, etc..

13:27:34 scoopbot: New post on fr.anco.is by David FRANCOIS: http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-first-progress-report/

13:27:35 assbot: BitBet receivership first progress report | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1MDME88 )

13:46:25 nubbins`: davout is mp's bill considered "certified liability" at this point, i.e. the decision has been finalized to pay it?

13:47:49 nubbins`: er, at least, to declare it legitimate

14:20:28 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442307 << bwahahaha! this reminds me of this lady I sometimes see at trivia night at a local bar; she knows I believe the Bible and was certain I'd be worse at science questions than her.

14:20:28 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 08:37:39; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442290 < not only he allows for bullshit, he actively authors it. the former is prerequisite for the latter. and from my point of view, if i had to tolerate his, i had to tolerate yours - to a point at least. however i am now absolved from that and science can take over. if it actually will is another matter and largely depends on actual people doing it. re

14:21:01 kakobrekla: lady has a point.

14:21:16 danielpbarron: well she was wrong. I crush the science questions

14:21:32 kakobrekla: well, obviously that is not the case.

14:49:57 danielpbarron: most people use 'science' to mean 'not Bible' but really the two things aren't mutually exclusive

14:51:17 danielpbarron: !up thestringpuller

14:52:07 thestringpuller: the scientific method is tough. requires discipline.

14:53:52 danielpbarron: http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=youre_not_a_nerd

14:53:53 assbot: You're not a nerd, geeks aren't sexy and you don't "fucking love" science. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SBz1pf )

14:54:53 punkman: davout, "the highest bid at the end of Wednesday the 6th of April 2016 will be retained as buyer for the whole package." << I'd suggest you allow more time for bids

14:55:29 danielpbarron: oo i still have highest bid :D

14:57:24 davout: punkman: danielpbarron still having the best bid might be a good incentive to convince the potential buyers that remained silent during the last three weeks to manifest themselves

14:58:05 davout: nubbins`: no such decision has been finalized as of yet

14:58:26 punkman: davout, so the 0.0001 per share doesn't go into liabilities?

15:00:08 davout: punkman: 3.2.(a) refers to "the representatives of bitbet", not bitbet itself

15:05:23 asciilifeform: davout: commented

15:06:22 thestringpuller: fluffypony: I love that quote by you, "Love is hard work, but it's honest work."

16:50:58 kakobrekla: O_o

16:52:19 asciilifeform: https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5912 << possibly interesting

16:52:20 assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 3 weeks 1 day ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1pNV5TQ )

16:56:01 kakobrekla: nah, he did not care for that.

16:56:31 kakobrekla: asciilifeform re bid, you health is ok?

16:56:39 kakobrekla: your*

16:59:38 kakobrekla: also none of these bets are signed or anything. even valid? any derp can write over 9000 there.

17:00:58 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i prolly oughta have signed

17:01:12 asciilifeform: and why is it such a lunatic thing to do, kakobrekla ?

17:03:08 asciilifeform: but no, i don't expect to win the auction, precisely because it is obviously worth more than i have

17:03:19 asciilifeform: because it really is not hard to repair the engine and set it going again.

17:03:19 kakobrekla: imo for many reasons. naturally it depends what you are trying to do with the thing but afaik you are allergic to web stuff.

17:03:38 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i am quite ~unallergic~ to btc stream.

17:04:03 asciilifeform: and would do pretty much anything to get one

17:04:09 asciilifeform: e.g., become an underwater sapper.

17:04:18 asciilifeform: cobra trainer.

17:04:18 asciilifeform: etc

17:04:52 kakobrekla: but does one neutralize the other or how does that work

17:05:16 asciilifeform: waiwut

17:05:25 kakobrekla: the allergy

17:05:44 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: understand, i'm allergic to the ~culture~

17:06:07 asciilifeform: and the social aspect of working in a motherfucking meatspace drudge mine with 17yos for 17yo-compatible wage etc

17:06:17 asciilifeform: this is what i mean by 'will not do wwwtronics'

17:06:55 kakobrekla: ok this explains a few things

17:07:10 asciilifeform: out of curiosity, which things

17:10:47 asciilifeform: incidentally, i wonder why kakobrekla doesn't simply buy the thing back

17:10:52 kakobrekla: your various wwwtronics works across the stage mainly of course

17:11:02 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i only really had 1

17:11:13 asciilifeform: and it sucked, and i'm very very slowly fixing it

17:11:15 asciilifeform: (phuctor)

17:11:17 kakobrekla: well you beat me to it! im not sure if the thing is worth 9.

17:11:22 asciilifeform: l0l

17:11:38 asciilifeform: what, if you up the fee 10x no one will use ?

17:11:58 kakobrekla: probably

17:12:23 kakobrekla: the question is did bb lose 30% or 70% of the bettors with this incident

17:12:52 asciilifeform: coca cola lost what, 70 % in the '80s with 'new coke' ?

17:14:03 kakobrekla: but they didnt ship empty cans at any point

17:14:28 asciilifeform: 'tylenol' recovered from having sold headache tabs with cyanide

17:14:34 asciilifeform: (some unknown nut slipped'em in)

17:14:38 asciilifeform: around same period.

17:15:14 asciilifeform: ;;google the tylenol murders

17:15:15 gribble: Chicago Tylenol murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders; How the Tylenol murders of 1982 changed the way we consume - PBS: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/tylenol-murders-1982/; The Horrifying True Story of the 1982 Chicago Tylenol Murders: http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-horrifying-true-story-of-the-1982-chicago- (1 more message)

17:16:21 kakobrekla: well there is a spectrum of (non)recoveries. nowhere does it say bb is supposedly on a certain part of it.

17:16:42 asciilifeform: true.

17:17:13 asciilifeform: but think of it this way - the thing costs ~0 to run.

17:17:21 asciilifeform: so it is almost impossible for it to not be in the black.

17:17:28 kakobrekla: mp managed.

17:17:32 PeterL: needs hosting

17:17:48 asciilifeform: most folks already pay for hosting

17:18:14 kakobrekla: look at the last statement, seems rather red to me!

17:18:25 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yes, mp is a brilliant sapper, managed to step on a mine in the middle of the sea

17:18:29 asciilifeform: what of it.

17:18:36 asciilifeform: it is no longer mp-managed (unless he buys it...)

17:19:25 asciilifeform: bbet is like an old t-34 ww2 tank in a swamp

17:19:41 asciilifeform: somebody just needs to pull it out, get out the skeletons, empty the dirt from the engine, it will purr again.

17:19:42 kakobrekla: well afaik he is considered the best in the village down the road and he couldnt manage.

17:21:35 kakobrekla: be back shortly

17:22:11 asciilifeform: there is really no reason why bbet can't be ~99% automated.

17:22:42 asciilifeform: (spam rejection is the only non-negotiably manual piece, afaik)

17:24:32 kakobrekla: ok we will get into that i just need to brb

17:25:58 solrodar: asciilifeform: do you have any worries re running a gambling website as a US resident?

17:26:35 asciilifeform: solrodar: i already signed up for gassing

17:26:52 asciilifeform: so i get 200 years of jail instead of 100, big whoop.

17:27:40 solrodar: you're a real inspiration

17:28:02 asciilifeform: l0l

17:28:45 solrodar: is #fraudsters actually logged like the ChanServ message says, or am I going to have to lurk there to find out what happens?

17:29:03 asciilifeform: solrodar: right now it is logged on a buncha folks' hdd

17:29:10 asciilifeform: at some point there will be a kakobrekla-style log

17:29:17 asciilifeform: i think phf is writing a logatron

17:29:21 solrodar: ok

17:30:17 PeterL: so no public logs there, yet

17:39:10 PeterL: I must say kakobrekla and asciilifeform seem to be arguing the wrong sides re bitbet, ascii should be talking it down so he does not get outbid, kako should be talking it up to maximize his return

17:40:30 BingoBoingo: Maybe from a game theory perspective, PeterL but from an ethics perspective they are having the right discussion around the bid

17:41:23 asciilifeform: the impression i get is that kakobrekla does not expect anybody to seriously bid war

17:41:34 asciilifeform: he sees bbet as a sunken titanic

17:42:09 PeterL: or maybe kakobrekla is hoping to sweep in with a winning bid at the last moment, and does not want a high bid to fight against?

17:42:38 asciilifeform: i have nfi.

17:54:53 punkman: I'm considering making a bid. Though I don't think anyone will be lining up to deposit 1000s of btc with me.

17:55:30 asciilifeform: punkman: i fully expect some sp4mz0r to appear and bit 999

17:55:32 asciilifeform: *bid

17:55:35 punkman: I believe any US-based owner would also lower confidence

17:55:39 asciilifeform: probably.

17:56:11 asciilifeform: at the very least, the thing would need a deadman switch (say, box in moscow to which pre-built refund-everybody tx is sent every time a bet is made, to be unleashed if it fails to see magic signal)

17:58:16 punkman: sounds like a headache especially if "every time a bet is made"

17:59:10 PeterL: could USian own but host elsewhere?

17:59:25 asciilifeform: PeterL: nah, eventually hitler comes and coke machine

17:59:28 scoopbot: New post on Qntra by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitbet-reciever-opens-bidding-for-bitbet-assets/

17:59:29 assbot: BitBet Reciever Opens Bidding For BitBet Assets | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1VbiGK9 )

17:59:31 punkman: not much of a difference PeterL

17:59:31 asciilifeform: so there has to be a deadman switch.

18:00:12 punkman: if you are making 2btc profit a month, I don't see how you are even gonna cover the costs

18:00:23 asciilifeform: what costs

18:02:29 punkman: hosting, dealing with ddoses, reviewing & resolving propositions, making payments

18:18:13 asciilifeform: the deadman tx, now that i think about it, can be deedbot-ed.

18:25:58 scoopbot: New post on Qntra by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/cloudflare-pressures-tor-developers-and-users-to-implement-identifiers/

18:25:59 assbot: Cloudflare Pressures Tor Developers and Users To Implement Identifiers | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1ooRw5y )

18:31:32 scoopbot: New post on Qntra by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/fbi-now-offering-to-unlock-iphones-just-because-it-can/

18:31:33 assbot: FBI Now Offering To Unlock iPhones Just Because It Can | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1UFzWJ2 )

18:37:53 funkenstein_: heyas greets from beijing

18:39:51 punkman: hey funkenstein_, how's the air

18:40:07 funkenstein_: better than i had thought, seems a good time of year

18:40:23 funkenstein_: i tried to acclimatize by smoking a lot before arrival, that may have helped

18:40:29 punkman: lol

18:40:38 funkenstein_: how is the lovely agean?

18:41:04 punkman: not bad, I wish it'd rain a bit

18:41:47 punkman: staying long in china?

18:41:51 funkenstein_: a few weeks

18:42:07 funkenstein_: trying to find the goblin miner cartel

18:42:25 funkenstein_: who can block specific coin even though there's no such thing as taint

18:42:37 asciilifeform: l0l!

18:46:12 funkenstein_: no luck yet but caught some nice jazz tonight, quartet playing coltrane amongst other standards

18:46:59 funkenstein_: friend tells me alphago will lose in china, because can't connect to google

18:49:55 funkenstein_: *aegean

20:58:54 kakobrekla: oh

20:58:57 kakobrekla: so much ground to cover

21:04:24 kakobrekla: first let me say i am interested in biding - for several reasons - but not at any price. its true that it is my baby even if its ugly, you know how mothers are. secondly i do not want it to fall in the wrong hands. apart from that the code is a riot and there are no comments or instructions. im of the opinion that without me the thing is near useless - not because it would be impossible to make use of it but it would take more time than

21:04:24 kakobrekla: to just make one yourself, its not rocket surgery.

21:05:56 asciilifeform: this is true for ~all software.

21:06:24 asciilifeform: imho bitcoin also.

21:06:49 asciilifeform: for the wrong hands thing see currently active thread in mircea_popescu's chan

21:06:52 nubbins`: ^

21:07:01 kakobrekla: i cant see that

21:07:21 nubbins`: ^

21:07:30 asciilifeform: (i argued 'hitler will buy it' and mp replied approx: 'no, he will buy its corpse, it does not matter what happens to a corpse')

21:07:38 nubbins`: this is true

21:08:20 kakobrekla: how is this not the titanic story ?

21:08:58 asciilifeform: well, titanic's cost of salvage is a more approachable computation.

21:09:10 kakobrekla: l0l

21:09:12 nubbins`: amazed alf bid without the 17 btc bill being resolved

21:09:35 asciilifeform: nubbins`: understanding was that the ~assets~ are for sale

21:09:37 asciilifeform: not the debts.

21:09:43 asciilifeform: it is, after all, in receivership.

21:09:51 nubbins`: what assets, the name and domain, both tainted?

21:09:59 asciilifeform: and the code.

21:10:00 nubbins`: or the spaghetti code

21:10:03 nubbins`: o

21:10:04 asciilifeform: aha, these.

21:10:07 asciilifeform: nothing else.

21:10:19 nubbins`: that's a costly plate of spaghetti you've purchased

21:10:52 asciilifeform: nubbins`: see, if it were not a wreck, as mp pointed out a minute ago, it would only be sold for the ~1k btc it was worth last month.

21:10:53 davout: nubbins`: you're welcome to not-bid :)

21:11:05 nubbins`: davout ;)

21:11:11 nubbins`: we'll see

21:11:23 asciilifeform: the only way for there to be a 9 btc ferrari is for it to go through a steam roller, no?

21:11:37 asciilifeform: (and it remains to be seen what the thing sells for)

21:11:42 davout: ^

21:11:48 davout: of this i am curious

21:12:00 nubbins`: certainly, i'm just marvelling at the fact that there's a market for ferrari-brand tinfoil

21:12:06 nubbins`: perhaps to make hats?

21:12:10 asciilifeform: nubbins`: perhaps!

21:12:15 nubbins`: <:)

21:12:18 asciilifeform: nubbins`: i did not say what i wanted it for !

21:12:29 nubbins`: i assumed as a textbook

21:12:40 BingoBoingo: Recycling tends to work this way. There's people who will expend effort to recover all manner of trash so long as there's some metal.

21:12:45 nubbins`: or a cadaver, i guess

21:12:55 nubbins`: BingoBoingo indeed

21:13:48 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442491 < this is based on the 0.1 btc monthly trading vol

21:13:48 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:10:52; asciilifeform: nubbins`: see, if it were not a wreck, as mp pointed out a minute ago, it would only be sold for the ~1k btc it was worth last month.

21:14:36 nubbins`: what was asicminer 'worth' at height, 5 btc x ?? shares

21:15:40 BingoBoingo: As far as the domain goes it's got some search engine juice. As far as the code goes perhaps an alf can work with it. I wouldn't be surprised if random spammy online casino would submit a bid just for the domain juice knowing how much insanity plagues the space.

21:16:05 kakobrekla: ok let me show you some discrepancy right now

21:16:26 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-03-2016#1433193 together with http://dpaste.com/3NKGGSZ.txt

21:16:26 assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 02:35:50; mircea_popescu: ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.

21:16:28 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1TlSwnU )

21:18:57 BingoBoingo: I see two types of bidders. alfs who would like to whittle the thing to the bone for an income stream and insane spammers/SEO juicers

21:19:18 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you forgot kakobrekla

21:19:35 BingoBoingo: Kako's not a group. He's a parent.

21:19:53 nubbins`: kakobrekla those are directly contradictory statements

21:20:03 kakobrekla: no shit?

21:20:46 nubbins`: wonder how many skeins of yarn mp needs to spin all his tales

21:21:48 kakobrekla: you are being repetitive

21:21:54 nubbins`: true

21:22:08 kakobrekla: snr please

21:22:11 *: nubbins` sits, watches

21:23:20 kakobrekla: anyway, "the cost of running a bitcoin payment network is in the .3 to 1 btc per transaction" should discourage all mp-believers

21:23:24 kakobrekla: from bidding

21:23:40 kakobrekla: am i right?

21:25:30 asciilifeform: he really oughta know better, having penned the 'only idiot would ask the cost of running my harem, for me - 0, for you - maxint'

21:26:10 kakobrekla: either the cost is 0 or its maxint, there is no superposition option here

21:26:23 asciilifeform: FOR HIM 0

21:26:27 asciilifeform: cost is not a scalar.

21:26:33 asciilifeform: !s tatra

21:26:33 assbot: 6 results for 'tatra' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tatra

21:26:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-10-2015#1299189 << thread.

21:26:45 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 01:03:43; mircea_popescu: if you want a Tatra truck, ask for it.

21:26:53 kakobrekla: ftw i was in roughly the same period running a wallet for another service and made more txes than bitbet did in the 3 or so years.

21:27:10 kakobrekla: i think i have a pretty good idea that the numbers are closer to 0 (for me)

21:27:39 asciilifeform: for someone entirely foreign to the whole field, prolly not 0.

21:27:55 asciilifeform: for me, ~0, and i'm not even a mega-hero like kakobrekla .

21:28:22 kakobrekla: yes, because you fill fuck it up, make a double payment and even then if you split the loss over other transactions it doesnt come to 0.5

21:28:30 kakobrekla: s/fill/will

21:28:45 asciilifeform: l0l whjy would i do that.

21:29:15 kakobrekla: im saying if you imagine to split the 18 loss over all txes bitbet made its less than 0.5 per tx

21:29:17 kakobrekla: that is all

21:29:36 asciilifeform: ah.

21:30:06 asciilifeform: i kinda wonder how mp will react if bbet is resurrected and has NO problems txing.

21:30:09 asciilifeform: ever.

21:31:12 kakobrekla: another thing to point out is that the time bitbet was started was the time of 'starting bitcoin biz is a liability' thread and the time when mp made a 400 btc mispayment for mpex and covered for it from own pocket

21:32:21 asciilifeform: i am reminded of machinists who say that no true machinist has all 10 fingers.

21:32:28 asciilifeform: or fewer than 6.

21:32:32 kakobrekla: if he would be acting then as he is acting now bitbet would never be started - at least not with him

21:33:00 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442519 << how is this contradiction? 1) BitBet was the most profitable bitcoin business. 2) BitBet wasn't profitable. 3) no bitcoin business has ever been profitable.

21:33:00 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:19:53; nubbins`: kakobrekla those are directly contradictory statements

21:33:21 kakobrekla: danielpbarron retarded people dont get to ask questions here

21:33:27 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: waiwut

21:33:46 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your statement resolves to '0 is the most positive of all 0'

21:33:55 danielpbarron: just saying it's not necessarily a contradiction. You may dispute the claim that no bitcoin business has ever been profitable..

21:34:11 kakobrekla: asciilifeform well, he is logician!!!11

21:34:16 danielpbarron: indeed.

21:34:24 asciilifeform: mega-expert tautologist!1111

21:34:28 kakobrekla: l0l

21:35:52 kakobrekla: asciilifeform anyway, mp wouldnt say it was a loss leader if the txing is really 0 would he ?

21:36:07 kakobrekla: or am i missing something

21:36:22 asciilifeform: waiwut

21:36:59 kakobrekla: from the dpaste

21:37:00 kakobrekla: ><mircea_popescu> bitbet has always been a loss leader, for me. admin costs have historically averaged in the 1 to 2 btc range, for the first thousand bets or so. since we changed the resolution process to the 2day thing they're significanrtly lower, in the 0.2 to .5 zone, but even so very few bets cover even this. on top of that, the cost of running a bitcoin payment network is in the .3 to 1 btc per transactio

21:37:00 kakobrekla: Mar 13 01:19:17 <mircea_popescu> n, depending how many you do and various other factors.

21:37:26 kakobrekla: either its a loss leader or the cost is 0, you cant have it both ways?

21:37:27 asciilifeform: as i see it, he was playing the 'angry divorced wife rates her vacuuming of carpets at $500/hr' trick

21:37:46 asciilifeform: he was amortizing the cost of the tx using mp-hours, presumably.

21:37:56 kakobrekla: wait now we are down to tricks?

21:38:00 kakobrekla: mkay...

21:38:04 asciilifeform: perhaps trick is wrong word

21:38:08 asciilifeform: it is not a dishonest calculation

21:38:13 asciilifeform: but imho misleading

21:38:33 asciilifeform: because if mp charges $1000 to paint a doghouse, it does not follow that painting a doghous costs $1000.

21:39:06 asciilifeform: it merely means that one ought to consider painters other than him.

21:39:15 kakobrekla: sure. but either it costs him (not charged) 0.5 per tx or 0 per tx

21:39:21 kakobrekla: bitbet is a sure thing or loss leader

21:39:24 kakobrekla: you can not have it both ways

21:39:42 asciilifeform: as i understand, he was figuring using the (perhaps even lowballed) cost of ~his~ time.

21:40:40 asciilifeform: (i do not think you can actually buy mp's time by the hour.. the number only really exists for rhetorical purposes afaik.)

21:40:55 kakobrekla: definitely overpriced given the fuckups that come with. i can make same fuckup for half the price.

21:41:35 asciilifeform: l0l i can picture if he were here!

21:41:45 asciilifeform: 'without me, they will drown you, like the blind kittens you are!111'

21:41:49 asciilifeform: ^ who said?

21:41:59 asciilifeform: stalin.

21:42:09 kakobrekla: and if you believe him you should not bid on bitbet, right?

21:42:46 asciilifeform: if i entirely believed in 100% mp, i would probably eat the pistol.

21:42:56 kakobrekla: !b 1

21:42:57 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/07TCS53.txt )

21:43:07 kakobrekla: danielpbarron you may proceed to negrate!

21:45:02 asciilifeform: stalin, incidentally, turned out to be right.

21:45:10 asciilifeform: (on a long time scale.)

21:45:39 kakobrekla: on an even longer scale stalin would have drowned as well

21:46:11 asciilifeform: i don't see why.

21:46:18 asciilifeform: the basic point of dispute was re autarky.

21:46:22 asciilifeform: he was a believer in it

21:46:25 asciilifeform: successors - not.

21:46:33 asciilifeform: they - started trading petro.

21:46:47 asciilifeform: without this, ru could exist for maxint years as isolated kingdom.

21:46:57 asciilifeform: until the sun burns out.

21:47:10 kakobrekla: thats a scale also isnt it

21:47:27 asciilifeform: sure but no drowning !

21:47:46 kakobrekla: but ?

21:48:17 asciilifeform: ...?

21:48:22 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442553 << did you even read both?

21:48:22 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:33:00; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442519 << how is this contradiction? 1) BitBet was the most profitable bitcoin business. 2) BitBet wasn't profitable. 3) no bitcoin business has ever been profitable.

21:48:36 danielpbarron: kakobrekla> danielpbarron you may proceed to negrate! << do what now?

21:49:55 kakobrekla: asciilifeform well technically, iirc, the sun gets larger and hotter before it dies, melting the north and south pole, drowning russia

21:49:56 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-03-2016#1433193 << "only actually profitable"

21:49:56 assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 02:35:50; mircea_popescu: ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.

21:50:14 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442553 << "wasn't profitable"

21:50:14 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:33:00; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442519 << how is this contradiction? 1) BitBet was the most profitable bitcoin business. 2) BitBet wasn't profitable. 3) no bitcoin business has ever been profitable.

21:50:36 kakobrekla: nubbins` forget him, he is a lost cause.

21:51:17 kakobrekla: im just waiting if he will keep his honor and seppuku or i need to kick him manually.

21:51:38 kakobrekla: well keep whats left of it anyway.

21:51:44 nubbins`: nod

21:51:53 nubbins`: he at least still has beard honour

21:52:59 danielpbarron: lol honor, I was kicked from #bitcoin and #bitcoin-otc so what's one more :D

21:53:41 kakobrekla: yeah i get it you have no concept of that. mother didnt raise you well.

21:54:25 danielpbarron: oh I honor her

21:58:50 scoopbot: New post on fraudsters by Mircea Popescu: http://fraudsters.com/2016/happiness/

21:58:51 assbot: Happiness on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ROaiOq )

22:03:43 asciilifeform: i am konfyoozed, what is danielpbarron's argument re bbet ?

22:07:43 danielpbarron: that it's not a contradiction, the things linked

22:07:57 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i dun get it.

22:11:12 kakobrekla: so the biders know what to expect http://38.media.tumblr.com/fb7b78c039f84f6587c718d5b88db31b/tumblr_inline_o4e81fGmxK1t9bsnt_500.gif

22:11:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ROcnd6 )

22:13:34 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: l0l!

22:13:39 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, apparently "actually profitable" businesses can be loss leaders

22:14:13 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: did i misunderstand the position of mp where he appeared to be tallying the cost of his own time against the profit ?

22:15:56 danielpbarron: seems like you understand it well enough

22:18:40 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442610 < give him a negative rating for he is not a 100% believer in mp, neh ? it would be _logical_!

22:18:40 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:48:36; danielpbarron: kakobrekla> danielpbarron you may proceed to negrate! << do what now?

22:19:08 kakobrekla: come on it be fun

22:24:14 kakobrekla: asciilifeform> (i argued 'hitler will buy it' and mp replied approx: 'no, he will buy its corpse, it does not matter what happens to a corpse') < btw im curious did he ask of your health too?

22:24:36 kakobrekla: or does he not care for it

22:26:22 asciilifeform: nah

22:27:03 asciilifeform: i would say 'see logz' but they dun work yet

22:27:21 kakobrekla: doubt id read

22:35:01 asciilifeform: hey nobody said kakobrekla has to read it. but he did ask.

22:35:16 asciilifeform: i'm not overly fond of playing 'broken telephone'.

22:35:30 kakobrekla: will try to not ask again.

22:35:40 asciilifeform: ask, ask.

22:35:54 asciilifeform: but imho you oughta have a peace treaty or sumthing.

22:36:26 kakobrekla: for what purpose?

22:36:37 asciilifeform: to stop reenacting spain of '37.

22:36:43 asciilifeform: hitler is laughing at us.

22:36:56 nubbins`: doubt it

22:38:03 kakobrekla: i dont think i care for people who are so soft in the head to let such bs as seen for the last weeks pass

22:38:23 asciilifeform: incidentally, did kako ever see mega-film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093419 ?

22:38:24 assbot: Lilovyy shar (1987) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1ROheei )

22:38:30 *: asciilifeform is floored that it is mentioned in englisch

22:38:38 kakobrekla: i dont think i did no

22:38:56 asciilifeform: space explorin' folk in Far Fyootoor find a ship full of dead pirates

22:40:48 asciilifeform: at first it is not clear what killed them, but then they find cargo - a load of cannonballs, of a sort, that release gas which makes folks fight to the death.

22:40:53 asciilifeform: a pirate, turned out, dropped one.

22:40:58 asciilifeform: i saw this as a kid, it stuck with me for some reason.

22:41:05 asciilifeform: and i could not help but think of it as #b-a burned.

22:41:59 kakobrekla: recall the 'chick' story on fraudsters?

22:42:10 asciilifeform: aha.

22:42:28 kakobrekla: he killed a chick that wasnt his to kill.

22:42:37 asciilifeform: though it wasn't mp

22:42:46 kakobrekla: i beg to differ.

22:42:55 asciilifeform: iirc the story was about some other kid ?

22:43:11 kakobrekla: no, i mean here in current reality

22:43:13 asciilifeform: ah

22:43:37 danielpbarron: what wasn't his to kill?

22:43:54 kakobrekla: the corpse going to auction

22:44:27 kakobrekla: also you are still here? really must i do this manually?

22:44:44 danielpbarron: how was bbet not his to kill?

22:44:49 asciilifeform: briefly returning to thread, i will say, hitler is laughing, the falling out between kako and mp serves only hitler.

22:45:03 danielpbarron: the listing agreement says explicitly that

22:45:03 nubbins`: it serves mp too

22:45:11 asciilifeform: whoever is responsible for the retransmitted - maliciously - tx, understood how mp would react.

22:45:18 asciilifeform: it was a carefully aimed bullet.

22:45:21 kakobrekla: great argument for glass canon effectiveness. lol!!

22:45:31 kakobrekla: nonsense

22:45:38 asciilifeform: nubbins`: how does the destruction of bbet help mp ?

22:45:59 kakobrekla: 0fee tx was a bullet for sure. mp sending it in his own brain.

22:46:03 nubbins`: apparently, if it was a big money loser, it lets him walk away without having "failed"

22:46:29 danielpbarron: i see no failure on his part one way or the other

22:47:00 danielpbarron: so it goes.

22:47:01 *: asciilifeform drumrolls

22:47:16 kakobrekla: the nerve on this kid.

22:47:47 kakobrekla: let him go cry over to the village down the road

22:47:48 asciilifeform: l0l i wonder wtf he was still doing here.

22:48:07 kakobrekla: im sure he "ohhh evil kako just banned me --- the voice of reason!!"

22:48:15 kakobrekla: hes*

22:48:25 kakobrekla: anyway

22:48:30 kakobrekla: enough words spent there

22:49:03 kakobrekla: anyway there was no bullet

22:49:06 kakobrekla: until so proven

22:49:12 kakobrekla: which it cant be.

22:49:19 kakobrekla: so does the nonexistance of ufos.

22:49:39 asciilifeform: i suppose if a second one is fired, we can reopen the question

22:49:53 asciilifeform: it is one of the reasons i wanted to buy the corpse.

22:50:05 kakobrekla: but the fact his 0.5 btc per tx bitcoin network does 0fee tx and then falls over when its not propagated by all nodes is ... laughable

22:51:04 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the 0.5 thing was so bizarre that i can only assume he was in tilt when he wrote this.

22:51:20 kakobrekla: go ask him

22:51:33 asciilifeform: i asked him various things, no answer.

22:51:43 kakobrekla: mega unsurprise

22:52:07 asciilifeform: gotta understand how mp works tho

22:52:19 asciilifeform: i think he isn't physiologically capable of backing down from anything

22:52:27 kakobrekla: yes - its very easy to sell bullshit in heavily compartmentalized system

22:52:33 kakobrekla: this is how crime cells work

22:53:11 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442706 < this is where we agree and tis a HUGE problem

22:53:11 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 22:52:19; asciilifeform: i think he isn't physiologically capable of backing down from anything

22:53:16 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: he runs his org based on unquestioned obedience (tm)

22:53:19 asciilifeform: it's a thing

22:53:22 asciilifeform: and - it works.

22:53:29 kakobrekla: for the cost of sanity

22:53:30 asciilifeform: we don't have another thing that works better.

22:53:36 asciilifeform: sanity tends to lose to hitler.

22:53:51 asciilifeform: opposing hitler is such a hopeless affair that only a certifiably insane man would dare.

22:53:54 kakobrekla: you have your hilter ill have my sanity

22:54:08 asciilifeform: sane folks tend to get eaten, sadly.

22:54:24 asciilifeform: just how it goes.

22:55:06 kakobrekla: anyway i cant work with people that are unable to admit their own mistake

22:55:06 asciilifeform: using bitcoin, or getting on a rickety tub with sails to cross an ocean, or marching into machine gun fire, etc. are not sane in any sense.

22:55:10 kakobrekla: just not how i roll

22:55:27 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: surely you've watched him refuse to admit mistakes previously ?

22:55:35 kakobrekla: the thing leads nowhere, just a matter of time

22:55:58 kakobrekla: perhaps

22:56:18 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: do you recall what mp said at c2 ? in the underground restaurant ? he said, roughly, 'i can't promise we'll win, napoleon - lost'

22:56:20 kakobrekla: however some people seem to be more keen to eat his shit.

22:57:09 kakobrekla: yes, heroes are determined by their actions, not by wining or losing

22:57:11 asciilifeform: personally i dun see how i eat anybody's shit.

22:57:16 kakobrekla: hence he should admit defeat here and there

22:57:22 kakobrekla: lose some battle to win the war

22:57:29 kakobrekla: mkay

22:58:11 kakobrekla: by asserting his delusions are true you are eating shit from my perspective

22:59:11 kakobrekla: what if next week goes "ufos stole my private keys and btc is gone" how is this different from "i sent 0fee tx there is mining cartel"

23:00:07 kakobrekla: will you also go "mkay, sure, possible, likely, you are a good fella"

23:01:45 kakobrekla: meanwhile in my inbox : I'm interested in making an offer for the assets of Bitbet. Please share any information that can be useful to make an educated guess on the value. Do you have already an idea of the price you are asking?

23:01:57 asciilifeform: i dun believe in the mining cartel being a necessary hypothesis.

23:02:02 asciilifeform: stated it very clearly, right here.

23:02:48 *: asciilifeform bbl

23:02:49 kakobrekla: do you believe its possible that the problem was 0fee on the tx and inconsistent relay policies ?

23:04:27 kakobrekla: anyway, mp doesnt need me, i dont need mp. this chan is now lacking any verbose lunatics and they moved over to the next village down the line. mpex users have also spoken (see volume). i dont see why would hitler laugh.

23:21:27 kakobrekla: actually i take it back - i do know what hilter is laughing about - the part where he is being credited for the deed

23:22:25 kakobrekla: talk about sancho panza!

23:35:50 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442725 < this is also what we see in the pseudo science called 'economics'. they are trying to make the economy stable, do away with day to day volatility only to totally explode every so often. a complex system, such as human body or tmsr. often benefits from volatility. keep that tightly regulated and you get a guaranteed blowup.

23:35:50 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 22:55:35; kakobrekla: the thing leads nowhere, just a matter of time

23:36:17 kakobrekla: iirc same thing happens with steam engine