Transcript for 31-03-2016, 460 lines:
02:38:36 scoopbot: New post on Daniel P. Barron by Daniel: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/achieving-greater-freedom-in-this-finite-doomed-world/
02:45:59 kakobrekla: PeterL not to rain on your parade here, but mind moving the above fopdoodle off rss thingy?
02:58:11 danielpbarron: for all the hard time Mircea tries to give Christians, he at least allows for them: a voice. I'm not sure if it's ironic or not that with his departure, so goes the willingness to tolerate the Gospel
02:59:42 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: oh ffs kako didn't pull yer voice
03:00:21 danielpbarron: only a matter of time, no?
03:00:42 asciilifeform: i have nfi!
03:01:03 asciilifeform: i 'sit on 2 chairs with 1 arse' largely because i like chatting with kako. but i wonder what danielpbarron is doing here.
03:01:32 danielpbarron: same reason i load up farceb00k i guess: morbid curiousity
03:01:55 danielpbarron: and because nobody has bothered to kick me yet
03:01:56 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: pretty quiet lately. mega-log on schism day tho
03:02:02 asciilifeform: you might enjoy it
04:18:52 BingoBoingo: !up whaack
04:18:59 whaack: thanks
04:29:46 whaack: https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/announcing-a-900-000-bitcoin-developer-fund-6e8b7e8b0861 << some lulz for the chan
04:50:46 BingoBoingo: Anyone ever wonder what a Septic Cesarean Wound looks like on a morbidly obese patient? (obviously not safe for life) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e0/3a/9d/e03a9d0cf64140aba535faef7df1bb40.jpg
05:05:41 mats: but where does babby go?
05:07:16 BingoBoingo: Was there any baby left?
08:37:39 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442290 < not only he allows for bullshit, he actively authors it. the former is prerequisite for the latter. and from my point of view, if i had to tolerate his, i had to tolerate yours - to a point at least. however i am now absolved from that and science can take over. if it actually will is another matter and largely depends on actual people doing it. remember, galileo didnt have it
08:37:39 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 02:58:11; danielpbarron: for all the hard time Mircea tries to give Christians, he at least allows for them: a voice. I'm not sure if it's ironic or not that with his departure, so goes the willingness to tolerate the Gospel
08:37:39 kakobrekla: easy either.
08:46:06 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442295 < the fact you like eating garbage is long established. however it appears i misjudged when i expected you still have some spine left. i will benevolently extend the offer for your seppuku for a little longer.
08:46:06 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 03:01:32; danielpbarron: same reason i load up farceb00k i guess: morbid curiousity
08:58:43 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442297 < sorry to disappoint. what can i say - low noise apparatuses is the way to go.
08:58:43 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 03:01:56; asciilifeform: danielpbarron: pretty quiet lately. mega-log on schism day tho
09:00:46 kakobrekla: naggums (would be) motto comes to mind here really
09:01:56 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442303 < bejesus! are you trying to kill off whatever little life is left here? :)
09:01:56 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 04:50:46; BingoBoingo: Anyone ever wonder what a Septic Cesarean Wound looks like on a morbidly obese patient? (obviously not safe for life) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e0/3a/9d/e03a9d0cf64140aba535faef7df1bb40.jpg
09:02:05 punkman: I don't mind a bit of noise, as long as there's enough content
09:02:53 kakobrekla: punkman well you still have the total freedom to choose
09:04:08 kakobrekla: but if the critical mass is missing, noise or content doesnt really happen. see a pack of sheep vs lonely wolf.
09:05:09 punkman: I see plenty of inert mass
09:05:43 kakobrekla: where? i see bunch of neutrinos.
09:06:13 kakobrekla: oh you meant the same. yeah.
09:06:21 kakobrekla: well, almost.
09:07:40 punkman: anyway, it was observable for quite some time that if you took out mp and alf's dialogue #b-a would be pretty quiet
09:08:00 kakobrekla: sure, im not arguing that.
09:09:26 punkman: hmm, davout's report is gone?
09:15:23 kakobrekla: while alf-mp debates are interesting, i dont find it valuable when whole chan of people goes quietly asserting someones hallucinations. in fact i find it has negative value.
09:16:55 kakobrekla: and moreover when those hallucination must be accepted for continued operation
09:20:14 kakobrekla: i guess everyone sets his own price on own sanity, freedom, self-respect, etc..
13:27:34 scoopbot: New post on fr.anco.is by David FRANCOIS: http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-first-progress-report/
13:46:25 nubbins`: davout is mp's bill considered "certified liability" at this point, i.e. the decision has been finalized to pay it?
13:47:49 nubbins`: er, at least, to declare it legitimate
14:20:28 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442307 << bwahahaha! this reminds me of this lady I sometimes see at trivia night at a local bar; she knows I believe the Bible and was certain I'd be worse at science questions than her.
14:20:28 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 08:37:39; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442290 < not only he allows for bullshit, he actively authors it. the former is prerequisite for the latter. and from my point of view, if i had to tolerate his, i had to tolerate yours - to a point at least. however i am now absolved from that and science can take over. if it actually will is another matter and largely depends on actual people doing it. re
14:21:01 kakobrekla: lady has a point.
14:21:16 danielpbarron: well she was wrong. I crush the science questions
14:21:32 kakobrekla: well, obviously that is not the case.
14:49:57 danielpbarron: most people use 'science' to mean 'not Bible' but really the two things aren't mutually exclusive
14:51:17 danielpbarron: !up thestringpuller
14:52:07 thestringpuller: the scientific method is tough. requires discipline.
14:54:53 punkman: davout, "the highest bid at the end of Wednesday the 6th of April 2016 will be retained as buyer for the whole package." << I'd suggest you allow more time for bids
14:55:29 danielpbarron: oo i still have highest bid :D
14:57:24 davout: punkman: danielpbarron still having the best bid might be a good incentive to convince the potential buyers that remained silent during the last three weeks to manifest themselves
14:58:05 davout: nubbins`: no such decision has been finalized as of yet
14:58:26 punkman: davout, so the 0.0001 per share doesn't go into liabilities?
15:00:08 davout: punkman: 3.2.(a) refers to "the representatives of bitbet", not bitbet itself
15:05:23 asciilifeform: davout: commented
15:06:22 thestringpuller: fluffypony: I love that quote by you, "Love is hard work, but it's honest work."
16:50:58 kakobrekla: O_o
16:52:19 asciilifeform: https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5912 << possibly interesting
16:56:01 kakobrekla: nah, he did not care for that.
16:56:31 kakobrekla: asciilifeform re bid, you health is ok?
16:56:39 kakobrekla: your*
16:59:38 kakobrekla: also none of these bets are signed or anything. even valid? any derp can write over 9000 there.
17:00:58 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i prolly oughta have signed
17:01:12 asciilifeform: and why is it such a lunatic thing to do, kakobrekla ?
17:03:08 asciilifeform: but no, i don't expect to win the auction, precisely because it is obviously worth more than i have
17:03:19 asciilifeform: because it really is not hard to repair the engine and set it going again.
17:03:19 kakobrekla: imo for many reasons. naturally it depends what you are trying to do with the thing but afaik you are allergic to web stuff.
17:03:38 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i am quite ~unallergic~ to btc stream.
17:04:03 asciilifeform: and would do pretty much anything to get one
17:04:09 asciilifeform: e.g., become an underwater sapper.
17:04:18 asciilifeform: cobra trainer.
17:04:18 asciilifeform: etc
17:04:52 kakobrekla: but does one neutralize the other or how does that work
17:05:16 asciilifeform: waiwut
17:05:25 kakobrekla: the allergy
17:05:44 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: understand, i'm allergic to the ~culture~
17:06:07 asciilifeform: and the social aspect of working in a motherfucking meatspace drudge mine with 17yos for 17yo-compatible wage etc
17:06:17 asciilifeform: this is what i mean by 'will not do wwwtronics'
17:06:55 kakobrekla: ok this explains a few things
17:07:10 asciilifeform: out of curiosity, which things
17:10:47 asciilifeform: incidentally, i wonder why kakobrekla doesn't simply buy the thing back
17:10:52 kakobrekla: your various wwwtronics works across the stage mainly of course
17:11:02 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i only really had 1
17:11:13 asciilifeform: and it sucked, and i'm very very slowly fixing it
17:11:15 asciilifeform: (phuctor)
17:11:17 kakobrekla: well you beat me to it! im not sure if the thing is worth 9.
17:11:22 asciilifeform: l0l
17:11:38 asciilifeform: what, if you up the fee 10x no one will use ?
17:11:58 kakobrekla: probably
17:12:23 kakobrekla: the question is did bb lose 30% or 70% of the bettors with this incident
17:12:52 asciilifeform: coca cola lost what, 70 % in the '80s with 'new coke' ?
17:14:03 kakobrekla: but they didnt ship empty cans at any point
17:14:28 asciilifeform: 'tylenol' recovered from having sold headache tabs with cyanide
17:14:34 asciilifeform: (some unknown nut slipped'em in)
17:14:38 asciilifeform: around same period.
17:15:14 asciilifeform: ;;google the tylenol murders
17:15:15 gribble: Chicago Tylenol murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders; How the Tylenol murders of 1982 changed the way we consume - PBS: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/tylenol-murders-1982/; The Horrifying True Story of the 1982 Chicago Tylenol Murders: http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-horrifying-true-story-of-the-1982-chicago- (1 more message)
17:16:21 kakobrekla: well there is a spectrum of (non)recoveries. nowhere does it say bb is supposedly on a certain part of it.
17:16:42 asciilifeform: true.
17:17:13 asciilifeform: but think of it this way - the thing costs ~0 to run.
17:17:21 asciilifeform: so it is almost impossible for it to not be in the black.
17:17:28 kakobrekla: mp managed.
17:17:32 PeterL: needs hosting
17:17:48 asciilifeform: most folks already pay for hosting
17:18:14 kakobrekla: look at the last statement, seems rather red to me!
17:18:25 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yes, mp is a brilliant sapper, managed to step on a mine in the middle of the sea
17:18:29 asciilifeform: what of it.
17:18:36 asciilifeform: it is no longer mp-managed (unless he buys it...)
17:19:25 asciilifeform: bbet is like an old t-34 ww2 tank in a swamp
17:19:41 asciilifeform: somebody just needs to pull it out, get out the skeletons, empty the dirt from the engine, it will purr again.
17:19:42 kakobrekla: well afaik he is considered the best in the village down the road and he couldnt manage.
17:21:35 kakobrekla: be back shortly
17:22:11 asciilifeform: there is really no reason why bbet can't be ~99% automated.
17:22:42 asciilifeform: (spam rejection is the only non-negotiably manual piece, afaik)
17:24:32 kakobrekla: ok we will get into that i just need to brb
17:25:58 solrodar: asciilifeform: do you have any worries re running a gambling website as a US resident?
17:26:35 asciilifeform: solrodar: i already signed up for gassing
17:26:52 asciilifeform: so i get 200 years of jail instead of 100, big whoop.
17:27:40 solrodar: you're a real inspiration
17:28:02 asciilifeform: l0l
17:28:45 solrodar: is #fraudsters actually logged like the ChanServ message says, or am I going to have to lurk there to find out what happens?
17:29:03 asciilifeform: solrodar: right now it is logged on a buncha folks' hdd
17:29:10 asciilifeform: at some point there will be a kakobrekla-style log
17:29:17 asciilifeform: i think phf is writing a logatron
17:29:21 solrodar: ok
17:30:17 PeterL: so no public logs there, yet
17:39:10 PeterL: I must say kakobrekla and asciilifeform seem to be arguing the wrong sides re bitbet, ascii should be talking it down so he does not get outbid, kako should be talking it up to maximize his return
17:40:30 BingoBoingo: Maybe from a game theory perspective, PeterL but from an ethics perspective they are having the right discussion around the bid
17:41:23 asciilifeform: the impression i get is that kakobrekla does not expect anybody to seriously bid war
17:41:34 asciilifeform: he sees bbet as a sunken titanic
17:42:09 PeterL: or maybe kakobrekla is hoping to sweep in with a winning bid at the last moment, and does not want a high bid to fight against?
17:42:38 asciilifeform: i have nfi.
17:54:53 punkman: I'm considering making a bid. Though I don't think anyone will be lining up to deposit 1000s of btc with me.
17:55:30 asciilifeform: punkman: i fully expect some sp4mz0r to appear and bit 999
17:55:32 asciilifeform: *bid
17:55:35 punkman: I believe any US-based owner would also lower confidence
17:55:39 asciilifeform: probably.
17:56:11 asciilifeform: at the very least, the thing would need a deadman switch (say, box in moscow to which pre-built refund-everybody tx is sent every time a bet is made, to be unleashed if it fails to see magic signal)
17:58:16 punkman: sounds like a headache especially if "every time a bet is made"
17:59:10 PeterL: could USian own but host elsewhere?
17:59:25 asciilifeform: PeterL: nah, eventually hitler comes and coke machine
17:59:28 scoopbot: New post on Qntra by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitbet-reciever-opens-bidding-for-bitbet-assets/
17:59:31 punkman: not much of a difference PeterL
17:59:31 asciilifeform: so there has to be a deadman switch.
18:00:12 punkman: if you are making 2btc profit a month, I don't see how you are even gonna cover the costs
18:00:23 asciilifeform: what costs
18:02:29 punkman: hosting, dealing with ddoses, reviewing & resolving propositions, making payments
18:18:13 asciilifeform: the deadman tx, now that i think about it, can be deedbot-ed.
18:25:58 scoopbot: New post on Qntra by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/cloudflare-pressures-tor-developers-and-users-to-implement-identifiers/
18:31:32 scoopbot: New post on Qntra by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2016/03/fbi-now-offering-to-unlock-iphones-just-because-it-can/
18:37:53 funkenstein_: heyas greets from beijing
18:39:51 punkman: hey funkenstein_, how's the air
18:40:07 funkenstein_: better than i had thought, seems a good time of year
18:40:23 funkenstein_: i tried to acclimatize by smoking a lot before arrival, that may have helped
18:40:29 punkman: lol
18:40:38 funkenstein_: how is the lovely agean?
18:41:04 punkman: not bad, I wish it'd rain a bit
18:41:47 punkman: staying long in china?
18:41:51 funkenstein_: a few weeks
18:42:07 funkenstein_: trying to find the goblin miner cartel
18:42:25 funkenstein_: who can block specific coin even though there's no such thing as taint
18:42:37 asciilifeform: l0l!
18:46:12 funkenstein_: no luck yet but caught some nice jazz tonight, quartet playing coltrane amongst other standards
18:46:59 funkenstein_: friend tells me alphago will lose in china, because can't connect to google
18:49:55 funkenstein_: *aegean
20:58:54 kakobrekla: oh
20:58:57 kakobrekla: so much ground to cover
21:04:24 kakobrekla: first let me say i am interested in biding - for several reasons - but not at any price. its true that it is my baby even if its ugly, you know how mothers are. secondly i do not want it to fall in the wrong hands. apart from that the code is a riot and there are no comments or instructions. im of the opinion that without me the thing is near useless - not because it would be impossible to make use of it but it would take more time than
21:04:24 kakobrekla: to just make one yourself, its not rocket surgery.
21:05:56 asciilifeform: this is true for ~all software.
21:06:24 asciilifeform: imho bitcoin also.
21:06:49 asciilifeform: for the wrong hands thing see currently active thread in mircea_popescu's chan
21:06:52 nubbins`: ^
21:07:01 kakobrekla: i cant see that
21:07:21 nubbins`: ^
21:07:30 asciilifeform: (i argued 'hitler will buy it' and mp replied approx: 'no, he will buy its corpse, it does not matter what happens to a corpse')
21:07:38 nubbins`: this is true
21:08:20 kakobrekla: how is this not the titanic story ?
21:08:58 asciilifeform: well, titanic's cost of salvage is a more approachable computation.
21:09:10 kakobrekla: l0l
21:09:12 nubbins`: amazed alf bid without the 17 btc bill being resolved
21:09:35 asciilifeform: nubbins`: understanding was that the ~assets~ are for sale
21:09:37 asciilifeform: not the debts.
21:09:43 asciilifeform: it is, after all, in receivership.
21:09:51 nubbins`: what assets, the name and domain, both tainted?
21:09:59 asciilifeform: and the code.
21:10:00 nubbins`: or the spaghetti code
21:10:03 nubbins`: o
21:10:04 asciilifeform: aha, these.
21:10:07 asciilifeform: nothing else.
21:10:19 nubbins`: that's a costly plate of spaghetti you've purchased
21:10:52 asciilifeform: nubbins`: see, if it were not a wreck, as mp pointed out a minute ago, it would only be sold for the ~1k btc it was worth last month.
21:10:53 davout: nubbins`: you're welcome to not-bid :)
21:11:05 nubbins`: davout ;)
21:11:11 nubbins`: we'll see
21:11:23 asciilifeform: the only way for there to be a 9 btc ferrari is for it to go through a steam roller, no?
21:11:37 asciilifeform: (and it remains to be seen what the thing sells for)
21:11:42 davout: ^
21:11:48 davout: of this i am curious
21:12:00 nubbins`: certainly, i'm just marvelling at the fact that there's a market for ferrari-brand tinfoil
21:12:06 nubbins`: perhaps to make hats?
21:12:10 asciilifeform: nubbins`: perhaps!
21:12:15 nubbins`: <:)
21:12:18 asciilifeform: nubbins`: i did not say what i wanted it for !
21:12:29 nubbins`: i assumed as a textbook
21:12:40 BingoBoingo: Recycling tends to work this way. There's people who will expend effort to recover all manner of trash so long as there's some metal.
21:12:45 nubbins`: or a cadaver, i guess
21:12:55 nubbins`: BingoBoingo indeed
21:13:48 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442491 < this is based on the 0.1 btc monthly trading vol
21:13:48 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:10:52; asciilifeform: nubbins`: see, if it were not a wreck, as mp pointed out a minute ago, it would only be sold for the ~1k btc it was worth last month.
21:14:36 nubbins`: what was asicminer 'worth' at height, 5 btc x ?? shares
21:15:40 BingoBoingo: As far as the domain goes it's got some search engine juice. As far as the code goes perhaps an alf can work with it. I wouldn't be surprised if random spammy online casino would submit a bid just for the domain juice knowing how much insanity plagues the space.
21:16:05 kakobrekla: ok let me show you some discrepancy right now
21:16:26 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-03-2016#1433193 together with http://dpaste.com/3NKGGSZ.txt
21:16:26 assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 02:35:50; mircea_popescu: ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.
21:18:57 BingoBoingo: I see two types of bidders. alfs who would like to whittle the thing to the bone for an income stream and insane spammers/SEO juicers
21:19:18 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you forgot kakobrekla
21:19:35 BingoBoingo: Kako's not a group. He's a parent.
21:19:53 nubbins`: kakobrekla those are directly contradictory statements
21:20:03 kakobrekla: no shit?
21:20:46 nubbins`: wonder how many skeins of yarn mp needs to spin all his tales
21:21:48 kakobrekla: you are being repetitive
21:21:54 nubbins`: true
21:22:08 kakobrekla: snr please
21:22:11 *: nubbins` sits, watches
21:23:20 kakobrekla: anyway, "the cost of running a bitcoin payment network is in the .3 to 1 btc per transaction" should discourage all mp-believers
21:23:24 kakobrekla: from bidding
21:23:40 kakobrekla: am i right?
21:25:30 asciilifeform: he really oughta know better, having penned the 'only idiot would ask the cost of running my harem, for me - 0, for you - maxint'
21:26:10 kakobrekla: either the cost is 0 or its maxint, there is no superposition option here
21:26:23 asciilifeform: FOR HIM 0
21:26:27 asciilifeform: cost is not a scalar.
21:26:33 asciilifeform: !s tatra
21:26:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-10-2015#1299189 << thread.
21:26:45 assbot: Logged on 15-10-2015 01:03:43; mircea_popescu: if you want a Tatra truck, ask for it.
21:26:53 kakobrekla: ftw i was in roughly the same period running a wallet for another service and made more txes than bitbet did in the 3 or so years.
21:27:10 kakobrekla: i think i have a pretty good idea that the numbers are closer to 0 (for me)
21:27:39 asciilifeform: for someone entirely foreign to the whole field, prolly not 0.
21:27:55 asciilifeform: for me, ~0, and i'm not even a mega-hero like kakobrekla .
21:28:22 kakobrekla: yes, because you fill fuck it up, make a double payment and even then if you split the loss over other transactions it doesnt come to 0.5
21:28:30 kakobrekla: s/fill/will
21:28:45 asciilifeform: l0l whjy would i do that.
21:29:15 kakobrekla: im saying if you imagine to split the 18 loss over all txes bitbet made its less than 0.5 per tx
21:29:17 kakobrekla: that is all
21:29:36 asciilifeform: ah.
21:30:06 asciilifeform: i kinda wonder how mp will react if bbet is resurrected and has NO problems txing.
21:30:09 asciilifeform: ever.
21:31:12 kakobrekla: another thing to point out is that the time bitbet was started was the time of 'starting bitcoin biz is a liability' thread and the time when mp made a 400 btc mispayment for mpex and covered for it from own pocket
21:32:21 asciilifeform: i am reminded of machinists who say that no true machinist has all 10 fingers.
21:32:28 asciilifeform: or fewer than 6.
21:32:32 kakobrekla: if he would be acting then as he is acting now bitbet would never be started - at least not with him
21:33:00 danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442519 << how is this contradiction? 1) BitBet was the most profitable bitcoin business. 2) BitBet wasn't profitable. 3) no bitcoin business has ever been profitable.
21:33:00 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:19:53; nubbins`: kakobrekla those are directly contradictory statements
21:33:21 kakobrekla: danielpbarron retarded people dont get to ask questions here
21:33:27 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: waiwut
21:33:46 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your statement resolves to '0 is the most positive of all 0'
21:33:55 danielpbarron: just saying it's not necessarily a contradiction. You may dispute the claim that no bitcoin business has ever been profitable..
21:34:11 kakobrekla: asciilifeform well, he is logician!!!11
21:34:16 danielpbarron: indeed.
21:34:24 asciilifeform: mega-expert tautologist!1111
21:34:28 kakobrekla: l0l
21:35:52 kakobrekla: asciilifeform anyway, mp wouldnt say it was a loss leader if the txing is really 0 would he ?
21:36:07 kakobrekla: or am i missing something
21:36:22 asciilifeform: waiwut
21:36:59 kakobrekla: from the dpaste
21:37:00 kakobrekla: ><mircea_popescu> bitbet has always been a loss leader, for me. admin costs have historically averaged in the 1 to 2 btc range, for the first thousand bets or so. since we changed the resolution process to the 2day thing they're significanrtly lower, in the 0.2 to .5 zone, but even so very few bets cover even this. on top of that, the cost of running a bitcoin payment network is in the .3 to 1 btc per transactio
21:37:00 kakobrekla: Mar 13 01:19:17 <mircea_popescu> n, depending how many you do and various other factors.
21:37:26 kakobrekla: either its a loss leader or the cost is 0, you cant have it both ways?
21:37:27 asciilifeform: as i see it, he was playing the 'angry divorced wife rates her vacuuming of carpets at $500/hr' trick
21:37:46 asciilifeform: he was amortizing the cost of the tx using mp-hours, presumably.
21:37:56 kakobrekla: wait now we are down to tricks?
21:38:00 kakobrekla: mkay...
21:38:04 asciilifeform: perhaps trick is wrong word
21:38:08 asciilifeform: it is not a dishonest calculation
21:38:13 asciilifeform: but imho misleading
21:38:33 asciilifeform: because if mp charges $1000 to paint a doghouse, it does not follow that painting a doghous costs $1000.
21:39:06 asciilifeform: it merely means that one ought to consider painters other than him.
21:39:15 kakobrekla: sure. but either it costs him (not charged) 0.5 per tx or 0 per tx
21:39:21 kakobrekla: bitbet is a sure thing or loss leader
21:39:24 kakobrekla: you can not have it both ways
21:39:42 asciilifeform: as i understand, he was figuring using the (perhaps even lowballed) cost of ~his~ time.
21:40:40 asciilifeform: (i do not think you can actually buy mp's time by the hour.. the number only really exists for rhetorical purposes afaik.)
21:40:55 kakobrekla: definitely overpriced given the fuckups that come with. i can make same fuckup for half the price.
21:41:35 asciilifeform: l0l i can picture if he were here!
21:41:45 asciilifeform: 'without me, they will drown you, like the blind kittens you are!111'
21:41:49 asciilifeform: ^ who said?
21:41:59 asciilifeform: stalin.
21:42:09 kakobrekla: and if you believe him you should not bid on bitbet, right?
21:42:46 asciilifeform: if i entirely believed in 100% mp, i would probably eat the pistol.
21:42:56 kakobrekla: !b 1
21:43:07 kakobrekla: danielpbarron you may proceed to negrate!
21:45:02 asciilifeform: stalin, incidentally, turned out to be right.
21:45:10 asciilifeform: (on a long time scale.)
21:45:39 kakobrekla: on an even longer scale stalin would have drowned as well
21:46:11 asciilifeform: i don't see why.
21:46:18 asciilifeform: the basic point of dispute was re autarky.
21:46:22 asciilifeform: he was a believer in it
21:46:25 asciilifeform: successors - not.
21:46:33 asciilifeform: they - started trading petro.
21:46:47 asciilifeform: without this, ru could exist for maxint years as isolated kingdom.
21:46:57 asciilifeform: until the sun burns out.
21:47:10 kakobrekla: thats a scale also isnt it
21:47:27 asciilifeform: sure but no drowning !
21:47:46 kakobrekla: but ?
21:48:17 asciilifeform: ...?
21:48:22 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442553 << did you even read both?
21:48:22 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:33:00; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442519 << how is this contradiction? 1) BitBet was the most profitable bitcoin business. 2) BitBet wasn't profitable. 3) no bitcoin business has ever been profitable.
21:48:36 danielpbarron: kakobrekla> danielpbarron you may proceed to negrate! << do what now?
21:49:55 kakobrekla: asciilifeform well technically, iirc, the sun gets larger and hotter before it dies, melting the north and south pole, drowning russia
21:49:56 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-03-2016#1433193 << "only actually profitable"
21:49:56 assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 02:35:50; mircea_popescu: ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.
21:50:14 nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442553 << "wasn't profitable"
21:50:14 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:33:00; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442519 << how is this contradiction? 1) BitBet was the most profitable bitcoin business. 2) BitBet wasn't profitable. 3) no bitcoin business has ever been profitable.
21:50:36 kakobrekla: nubbins` forget him, he is a lost cause.
21:51:17 kakobrekla: im just waiting if he will keep his honor and seppuku or i need to kick him manually.
21:51:38 kakobrekla: well keep whats left of it anyway.
21:51:44 nubbins`: nod
21:51:53 nubbins`: he at least still has beard honour
21:52:59 danielpbarron: lol honor, I was kicked from #bitcoin and #bitcoin-otc so what's one more :D
21:53:41 kakobrekla: yeah i get it you have no concept of that. mother didnt raise you well.
21:54:25 danielpbarron: oh I honor her
22:03:43 asciilifeform: i am konfyoozed, what is danielpbarron's argument re bbet ?
22:07:43 danielpbarron: that it's not a contradiction, the things linked
22:07:57 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i dun get it.
22:11:12 kakobrekla: so the biders know what to expect http://38.media.tumblr.com/fb7b78c039f84f6587c718d5b88db31b/tumblr_inline_o4e81fGmxK1t9bsnt_500.gif
22:13:34 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: l0l!
22:13:39 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, apparently "actually profitable" businesses can be loss leaders
22:14:13 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: did i misunderstand the position of mp where he appeared to be tallying the cost of his own time against the profit ?
22:15:56 danielpbarron: seems like you understand it well enough
22:18:40 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442610 < give him a negative rating for he is not a 100% believer in mp, neh ? it would be _logical_!
22:18:40 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 21:48:36; danielpbarron: kakobrekla> danielpbarron you may proceed to negrate! << do what now?
22:19:08 kakobrekla: come on it be fun
22:24:14 kakobrekla: asciilifeform> (i argued 'hitler will buy it' and mp replied approx: 'no, he will buy its corpse, it does not matter what happens to a corpse') < btw im curious did he ask of your health too?
22:24:36 kakobrekla: or does he not care for it
22:26:22 asciilifeform: nah
22:27:03 asciilifeform: i would say 'see logz' but they dun work yet
22:27:21 kakobrekla: doubt id read
22:35:01 asciilifeform: hey nobody said kakobrekla has to read it. but he did ask.
22:35:16 asciilifeform: i'm not overly fond of playing 'broken telephone'.
22:35:30 kakobrekla: will try to not ask again.
22:35:40 asciilifeform: ask, ask.
22:35:54 asciilifeform: but imho you oughta have a peace treaty or sumthing.
22:36:26 kakobrekla: for what purpose?
22:36:37 asciilifeform: to stop reenacting spain of '37.
22:36:43 asciilifeform: hitler is laughing at us.
22:36:56 nubbins`: doubt it
22:38:03 kakobrekla: i dont think i care for people who are so soft in the head to let such bs as seen for the last weeks pass
22:38:30 *: asciilifeform is floored that it is mentioned in englisch
22:38:38 kakobrekla: i dont think i did no
22:38:56 asciilifeform: space explorin' folk in Far Fyootoor find a ship full of dead pirates
22:40:48 asciilifeform: at first it is not clear what killed them, but then they find cargo - a load of cannonballs, of a sort, that release gas which makes folks fight to the death.
22:40:53 asciilifeform: a pirate, turned out, dropped one.
22:40:58 asciilifeform: i saw this as a kid, it stuck with me for some reason.
22:41:05 asciilifeform: and i could not help but think of it as #b-a burned.
22:41:59 kakobrekla: recall the 'chick' story on fraudsters?
22:42:10 asciilifeform: aha.
22:42:28 kakobrekla: he killed a chick that wasnt his to kill.
22:42:37 asciilifeform: though it wasn't mp
22:42:46 kakobrekla: i beg to differ.
22:42:55 asciilifeform: iirc the story was about some other kid ?
22:43:11 kakobrekla: no, i mean here in current reality
22:43:13 asciilifeform: ah
22:43:37 danielpbarron: what wasn't his to kill?
22:43:54 kakobrekla: the corpse going to auction
22:44:27 kakobrekla: also you are still here? really must i do this manually?
22:44:44 danielpbarron: how was bbet not his to kill?
22:44:49 asciilifeform: briefly returning to thread, i will say, hitler is laughing, the falling out between kako and mp serves only hitler.
22:45:03 danielpbarron: the listing agreement says explicitly that
22:45:03 nubbins`: it serves mp too
22:45:11 asciilifeform: whoever is responsible for the retransmitted - maliciously - tx, understood how mp would react.
22:45:18 asciilifeform: it was a carefully aimed bullet.
22:45:21 kakobrekla: great argument for glass canon effectiveness. lol!!
22:45:31 kakobrekla: nonsense
22:45:38 asciilifeform: nubbins`: how does the destruction of bbet help mp ?
22:45:59 kakobrekla: 0fee tx was a bullet for sure. mp sending it in his own brain.
22:46:03 nubbins`: apparently, if it was a big money loser, it lets him walk away without having "failed"
22:46:29 danielpbarron: i see no failure on his part one way or the other
22:47:00 danielpbarron: so it goes.
22:47:01 *: asciilifeform drumrolls
22:47:16 kakobrekla: the nerve on this kid.
22:47:47 kakobrekla: let him go cry over to the village down the road
22:47:48 asciilifeform: l0l i wonder wtf he was still doing here.
22:48:07 kakobrekla: im sure he "ohhh evil kako just banned me --- the voice of reason!!"
22:48:15 kakobrekla: hes*
22:48:25 kakobrekla: anyway
22:48:30 kakobrekla: enough words spent there
22:49:03 kakobrekla: anyway there was no bullet
22:49:06 kakobrekla: until so proven
22:49:12 kakobrekla: which it cant be.
22:49:19 kakobrekla: so does the nonexistance of ufos.
22:49:39 asciilifeform: i suppose if a second one is fired, we can reopen the question
22:49:53 asciilifeform: it is one of the reasons i wanted to buy the corpse.
22:50:05 kakobrekla: but the fact his 0.5 btc per tx bitcoin network does 0fee tx and then falls over when its not propagated by all nodes is ... laughable
22:51:04 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the 0.5 thing was so bizarre that i can only assume he was in tilt when he wrote this.
22:51:20 kakobrekla: go ask him
22:51:33 asciilifeform: i asked him various things, no answer.
22:51:43 kakobrekla: mega unsurprise
22:52:07 asciilifeform: gotta understand how mp works tho
22:52:19 asciilifeform: i think he isn't physiologically capable of backing down from anything
22:52:27 kakobrekla: yes - its very easy to sell bullshit in heavily compartmentalized system
22:52:33 kakobrekla: this is how crime cells work
22:53:11 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442706 < this is where we agree and tis a HUGE problem
22:53:11 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 22:52:19; asciilifeform: i think he isn't physiologically capable of backing down from anything
22:53:16 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: he runs his org based on unquestioned obedience (tm)
22:53:19 asciilifeform: it's a thing
22:53:22 asciilifeform: and - it works.
22:53:29 kakobrekla: for the cost of sanity
22:53:30 asciilifeform: we don't have another thing that works better.
22:53:36 asciilifeform: sanity tends to lose to hitler.
22:53:51 asciilifeform: opposing hitler is such a hopeless affair that only a certifiably insane man would dare.
22:53:54 kakobrekla: you have your hilter ill have my sanity
22:54:08 asciilifeform: sane folks tend to get eaten, sadly.
22:54:24 asciilifeform: just how it goes.
22:55:06 kakobrekla: anyway i cant work with people that are unable to admit their own mistake
22:55:06 asciilifeform: using bitcoin, or getting on a rickety tub with sails to cross an ocean, or marching into machine gun fire, etc. are not sane in any sense.
22:55:10 kakobrekla: just not how i roll
22:55:27 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: surely you've watched him refuse to admit mistakes previously ?
22:55:35 kakobrekla: the thing leads nowhere, just a matter of time
22:55:58 kakobrekla: perhaps
22:56:18 asciilifeform: kakobrekla: do you recall what mp said at c2 ? in the underground restaurant ? he said, roughly, 'i can't promise we'll win, napoleon - lost'
22:56:20 kakobrekla: however some people seem to be more keen to eat his shit.
22:57:09 kakobrekla: yes, heroes are determined by their actions, not by wining or losing
22:57:11 asciilifeform: personally i dun see how i eat anybody's shit.
22:57:16 kakobrekla: hence he should admit defeat here and there
22:57:22 kakobrekla: lose some battle to win the war
22:57:29 kakobrekla: mkay
22:58:11 kakobrekla: by asserting his delusions are true you are eating shit from my perspective
22:59:11 kakobrekla: what if next week goes "ufos stole my private keys and btc is gone" how is this different from "i sent 0fee tx there is mining cartel"
23:00:07 kakobrekla: will you also go "mkay, sure, possible, likely, you are a good fella"
23:01:45 kakobrekla: meanwhile in my inbox : I'm interested in making an offer for the assets of Bitbet. Please share any information that can be useful to make an educated guess on the value. Do you have already an idea of the price you are asking?
23:01:57 asciilifeform: i dun believe in the mining cartel being a necessary hypothesis.
23:02:02 asciilifeform: stated it very clearly, right here.
23:02:48 *: asciilifeform bbl
23:02:49 kakobrekla: do you believe its possible that the problem was 0fee on the tx and inconsistent relay policies ?
23:04:27 kakobrekla: anyway, mp doesnt need me, i dont need mp. this chan is now lacking any verbose lunatics and they moved over to the next village down the line. mpex users have also spoken (see volume). i dont see why would hitler laugh.
23:21:27 kakobrekla: actually i take it back - i do know what hilter is laughing about - the part where he is being credited for the deed
23:22:25 kakobrekla: talk about sancho panza!
23:35:50 kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2016#1442725 < this is also what we see in the pseudo science called 'economics'. they are trying to make the economy stable, do away with day to day volatility only to totally explode every so often. a complex system, such as human body or tmsr. often benefits from volatility. keep that tightly regulated and you get a guaranteed blowup.
23:35:50 assbot: Logged on 31-03-2016 22:55:35; kakobrekla: the thing leads nowhere, just a matter of time
23:36:17 kakobrekla: iirc same thing happens with steam engine