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Transcript for 8-7-2015, 1662 lines:

00:01:03 shinohai: http://fusion.net/story/162651/bitcoin-greece-varoufakis-blockchain/

00:01:05 assbot: Why Greece should befriend its bitcoin foes | Fusion ... ( http://bit.ly/1NMub4S )

00:03:48 BingoBoingo: shinohai: My stator testbed is lucky it is too slow to have been anywhere close in time to that having been an issue, though that is still an enduring issue.

00:04:55 shinohai: I have a stator build working, just waiting on my pogo to get here first. Using the 0.5.3 RELEASE on my shell

00:07:36 BingoBoingo: My stator is just on an awfully underpowered AMD64 machine

00:11:30 mod6: here's something I missed: log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187292

00:13:12 mod6: i'll have to see when i get there i guess.

00:13:55 mats: it doesn't look like bitcoin is ready for prime time

00:14:40 shinohai: Good find mod6, I hadn't got that far back yet

00:16:28 BingoBoingo: <mod6> here's something I missed: log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187292 << May have to increase locks limit (why it must be there idk) for reorg robustness

00:19:18 mod6: max_locks & max_objects were bumped from 10000 to 40000 in this patch: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000024.html But yeah, perhaps it needs to go higher. I'll dig in when I get wedged.

00:19:19 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NMwFQK )

00:20:01 mod6: for those who don't remember, we used to get stuck at block 252`450 before with only 10000 locks set

00:20:48 shinohai: Must have been before I discovered La Serenissima

00:21:10 mod6: it was last december.

00:24:15 BingoBoingo: Yeah, it was necessary to keep up with 0.8 normal. May need a still bigger boost for reorgs though.

00:31:59 assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 268 @ 0.00406002 = 1.0881 BTC [-] {4}

00:33:24 phf: BingoBoingo: have you tried making static build on openbsd? i seem to recall you were running a bunch of openbsd boxes

00:33:33 BingoBoingo: But the whole max locks thing is a mess

00:34:03 mod6: phf: i built on 5.6 but I can't seem to get mine to be be statically built :(

00:34:08 BingoBoingo: phf: No, not yet. On OpenBSD I'm running an 0.7.2 derivative with LibreSSL 2.0 just to see how it behaves.

00:34:34 phf: mod6: is that with the patch i posted to ml?

00:35:29 mod6: it was from a patch, but not from the email you just sent in...

00:35:33 phf: BingoBoingo: that's a good idea, i decided to punt on it, because i don't fully understand the reasoning behind the whole 1.0.1g freeze

00:36:05 BingoBoingo: <mod6> phf: i built on 5.6 but I can't seem to get mine to be be statically built :( << First thing to understand about OpenBSD is that it is a weird unix. Not as weird as Linux, but differently weird.

00:36:25 phf: mod6: nudge nudge wink wink

00:36:26 mod6: phf: maybe you posted this to the channel? anyway, this is the one I used: http://dpaste.com/28PF9DV.txt

00:36:27 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRdVAX )

00:36:39 BingoBoingo: phf: It sync'd and so far it hasn't forked outside of the ways other Bitcoins have

00:36:46 mod6: ok, so I should just use your patches just posted then

00:37:23 phf: mod6: yes, though they are conceptually similar to the one from dpaste

00:38:43 mod6: read your readme... so yeah, months and months ago I was able to build a dynamic bitcoind on openbsd, but that was the exact issue after statically linked: seg fault.

00:39:11 mod6: lemme try this out :]

00:39:18 phf: cool!

00:42:05 BingoBoingo: In other news http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/07/07/police-investigation-under-way--home--subway-pitchman-jared-fogle/29807473/

00:42:08 assbot: How will Subway pitchman Jared Fogle weather FBI investigation? ... ( http://bit.ly/1NMzYHs )

00:42:30 BingoBoingo: ^ expect in channel soon?

00:44:50 BingoBoingo: Like Shrem?

00:45:06 trinque: lol

00:45:12 BingoBoingo: Or does he walk with Brock in YCombinator

00:45:16 trinque: why do all the chimos have a certain look about them?

00:46:09 BingoBoingo: Thur Genetics?

00:46:36 trinque: who knows

00:46:56 trinque: there's a sort of pudgy, sunken-eyed, pasty-white I invariably associate with "hide yo kids"

00:48:20 BingoBoingo: But still, that isn't the complete type. It's the entire shape of the face: very, very Anglo

00:48:59 *: funkenstein_ is loving the discussion of time in the logs

00:51:20 trinque: BingoBoingo: http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/34400000/The-Queen-And-The-Duke-of-Edinburgh-Arrive-in-Slovenia-queen-elizabeth-ii-34496339-691-1024.jpg

00:51:21 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRfbUI )

00:51:50 BingoBoingo: trinque: Looks just like it

00:51:59 trinque: heh

00:53:17 BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr

00:56:00 williamdunne: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel was checking my rates, out of interest what is my association with gamingfurry.tumblr.com?

00:56:01 gribble: The operation succeeded.

00:56:08 williamdunne: Morning all

00:57:27 mod6: Buenos Dias

00:57:58 *: mod6 has to ramp up on espanol for c4

00:59:22 williamdunne: I would also like to learn Spanish, on my to do list

01:00:02 *: williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising

01:00:15 mod6: i used to be fairly fluent 10 years ago, now. not so much lol.

01:01:26 williamdunne: I had compulsory German and French lessons for 4 years in state education. Went about as well as expected. My entire vocabulary in both languages is "Bonjour", "Guten Tag", "Ich habe ein gross hose schlange", and "Ich bin zwolf jahre alt", along with a few words of no use on their own

01:01:53 mod6: haha, sounds familiar.

01:01:55 trinque: williamdunne: ich arbeit im krankenhaus

01:02:05 trinque: there, that about does it for my german

01:02:31 williamdunne: State education?

01:02:44 trinque: duolingo lol

01:02:54 trinque: took spanish in high school; I can understand more than I can say

01:03:06 williamdunne: I couldn't even update "Ich bin zwolf jahre alt" to make sense in my current state without the assistance from google translate.

01:03:22 williamdunne: In fairness, even in RO I could understand half the crap because its still latin

01:03:37 williamdunne: Reading French is even easier IMO

01:04:08 shinohai: I speak fluent Taco Bell

01:04:10 shinohai: j/k

01:04:36 *: williamdunne notably did qualify for a non-state school scholarship at a language school, after passing the aptitude tests. Further highlighting the failure of state education

01:05:54 trinque: "puedo comprender mas que puedo hablar" ??

01:05:59 *: trinque checks himself with google

01:06:48 trinque: google likes it I guess

01:07:29 shinohai: I'm ok with Spanish. Could probably carry on a convo though it has been a while/

01:08:24 trinque: german I've yet to get past the myriad articles

01:08:41 trinque: near as I can tell, there is no logic to them

01:09:00 shinohai: I'm always impressed with how well Germans speak English

01:09:10 trinque: you just grow up knowing that "*der* Tisch"

01:09:29 trinque: shinohai: heh maybe it's german easy-mode

01:10:02 shinohai: Nearly every one I have met speaks far better English than half the Americans I know.

01:10:23 trinque: having merely dabbled in german, there seems to be a preciseness or specificity to it

01:10:29 trinque: all the articles for example

01:10:42 trinque: "this one out of the set" vs "this one" vs "that" ... so on

01:10:47 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu i'm pretty sure i... solved it!

01:10:47 gribble: The operation succeeded.

01:10:54 trinque: asciilifeform: time?

01:10:59 asciilifeform: it.

01:11:16 asciilifeform: doesn't help pogo

01:11:16 *: trinque sounds the horn

01:11:29 asciilifeform: the ~other~ time

01:11:39 *: shinohai passes a glass of his Absinthe to asciilifeform

01:11:45 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1191623 << that one

01:11:45 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 18:51:43; ascii_field: let's imagine, briefly, that i ~do~ find.

01:11:55 asciilifeform: not sure how much good this'll do anyone.

01:12:03 phf: that would be second famous margin note, after fermat's

01:12:09 asciilifeform: phf has it

01:12:19 asciilifeform: which is why before saying any more, i will have to model it.

01:12:50 trinque: fascinating

01:13:18 asciilifeform: other folks can perhaps work it out if i say that the solution is based on dynamic 'predator-prey' equilibrium

01:14:02 asciilifeform: the realization comes from the fact that you don't really need accurate time, just an oscillator that is reasonably independence of amplitude

01:14:06 asciilifeform: *independent

01:14:27 asciilifeform: that cannot be slowed or sped up at will by any given participant

01:14:36 *: asciilifeform off to eat

01:16:12 phf: lamport clocks?

01:19:05 trinque: http://www.thelocal.de/20150707/german-missiles-taken-over-by-hackers << next war will start and end in a flash

01:19:06 assbot: 'Hackers' give orders to German missile battery - The Local ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRh8Au )

01:21:37 mod6: phf: do you patches depend on anything besides stator?

01:22:05 mod6: ( i patched in ascii's dump/eat block as well, but got a bunch of errors I didn't get last time ): http://dpaste.com/0C67TTN.txt

01:22:06 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1dKPE1v )

01:22:26 phf: mod6: that's the last part of readme, you want to build with gmake instead of make (pkg_add gmake)

01:22:37 phf: ooh, wait

01:22:51 phf: i think that's the errors from environment variables not being set

01:22:52 mod6: oh nevremind.

01:23:05 mod6: i screwed up i don't have realpath installed.

01:27:36 mod6: ok rebuilding

01:31:09 trinque: mod6: which openbsd package provides realpath?

01:31:52 mod6: no idea. i just swapped that stuff out for the fullpath, but gernika reminded me that one can usese readlink -f

01:31:58 mod6: *use

01:35:48 trinque: ah k

01:36:12 BingoBoingo: lol hipsters http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-city-police-20150705-story.html

01:36:13 assbot: Police add insult to injury after mugging - Baltimore Sun ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRi2Nj )

01:38:53 mircea_popescu: http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article10370250.ece/alternates/w620/6-Yanis-Varoufakis-AFP.jpg << wouldja look at the icons of the current adolescent.

01:38:54 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1dKRpMg )

01:38:59 mircea_popescu: fucking pizza delivery man ++

01:39:22 mircea_popescu: i dunno there's a sadder indictment of the decaying west.

01:39:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hm ?

01:40:33 mircea_popescu: and since we're on painful imagery, http://40.media.tumblr.com/e8a70299f0c5800ff75710a46e278040/tumblr_mm38px73ds1rdbtrjo2_1280.jpg

01:40:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1dKRCz2 )

01:42:37 BingoBoingo: http://www.counter-currents.com/2013/06/race-in-the-early-films-of-d-w-griffith/

01:42:39 assbot: Andrew Hamilton, "Race in the Early Films of D. W. Griffith" | Counter-Currents Publishing ... ( http://bit.ly/1dKROyb )

01:43:49 menahem: omg what is that photo ? insert and expand ?

01:44:01 BingoBoingo: menahem: You must be new here

01:44:21 menahem: ha, fairly. mostly read.

01:44:43 mircea_popescu: in that photo is a mechanical pear

01:45:44 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1192194 << basically holy water.

01:45:44 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:00:28; pete_dushenski: not cheap !

01:45:48 menahem: ahh ok, used in the mouth!

01:46:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1192198 << it meant to demonstrate bitcoin doesn't work if it doesn't work on the redditards' terms. it managed to demonstrate instead redditards don't matter, even when they pay for the voice.

01:46:24 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:02:02; trinque: I have no idea what they think the 'stress test' is meant to demonstrate

01:46:32 mircea_popescu: which is why this place (ie, bitcoin) is so fucking beautiful.

01:46:40 mircea_popescu: also why it's so fucking disconcerting to the welfare mass.

01:46:55 mircea_popescu: they truely believe it is a natural truth that their existence is all that's needed.

01:47:39 decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1192416 < i've heard that the reason he lost so much weight at subway was because he was stalking some chick who worked there

01:47:39 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 00:42:05; BingoBoingo: In other news http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/07/07/police-investigation-under-way--home--subway-pitchman-jared-fogle/29807473/

01:48:14 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35907 @ 0.000557 = 20.0002 BTC [+] {2}

01:49:15 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76993 @ 0.00056793 = 43.7266 BTC [+] {4}

01:49:31 mats: thats the first positive outcome to stalking i've heard of

01:49:53 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1192212 << because stupid and lazy.

01:49:53 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:05:13; ascii_field: i still can't fathom why this wasn't sop from day 1.

01:50:07 mats: lose a shitload of weight, gain eight digits in your bank

01:50:16 mircea_popescu: mats you know all the girls i knew for the first i dunno, decade of my life i got through stalking ?

01:50:44 mats: define stalking

01:51:18 mats: hiding in the bushes, tracking movements, masturbating to her shadowy figure in the shower?

01:51:31 mircea_popescu: well, the most famous and i guess exemplare case is, mp stops car, tells shadow : follow that girl. guy gets an address, mp gets a phone number, talks to puzzled woman. explains that he had her stalked, would she like to have a cup of coffee

01:51:35 decimation: asciilifeform: I'm not sure what you are thinking, but my idea is to use the 10 minute block time as a noisy oscillator

01:51:46 mircea_popescu: she says sure, she's going for a cup of coffee. i ask where, she says "tell your guy to find out"

01:51:53 mircea_popescu: mad scramble throughout town ensues.

01:52:34 mircea_popescu: i would like to assure the concerned public that no flower bouquets were involved in any of this at any point.

01:52:51 BingoBoingo: !b 8

01:52:51 assbot: Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2Q31J0Z.txt )

01:52:53 williamdunne: Oh good, flowers really would have made the whole situation rather strange

01:53:12 mircea_popescu: williamdunne it's a reference.

01:55:55 decimation: pogo can keep time by comparing its clock to the block discovery interval, averaging over a long period

01:56:27 mircea_popescu: decimation and expect it to come to what, 9 ?

01:56:52 mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats

01:56:55 gribble: Current Blocks: 364334 | Current Difficulty: 4.940201493122746E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 364895 | Next Difficulty In: 561 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 33 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None

01:57:07 mircea_popescu: ;;calc 364334 / 6/ 24/365

01:57:07 gribble: 6.93177321157

01:57:09 decimation: it would take a few difficulty inervals

01:57:17 mircea_popescu: it would appear we are no less than a year into the future.

01:57:23 decimation: heh

01:57:53 decimation: what is the rate at which new blocks are found?

01:57:55 decimation: in seconds?

01:58:04 mircea_popescu: 600

01:58:12 mircea_popescu: ideally. irl more like 530ish

01:58:52 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1192251 << nope. exactly unrelated

01:58:52 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:14:04; jurov: mircea_popescu: is the ftp server in the vicinity of your bitcoin node? it went full speed for minutes, then it suddenly throttled to 6kbps

01:59:53 mircea_popescu: in like utah or some shit

02:00:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1192286 << this.

02:00:42 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:30:21; ascii_field: likewise, the 'bubbles' ought to be sized proportional to their connectivity degree.

02:01:14 mircea_popescu: jurov that's a pretty weird graph considering the gaps aren't even same size o.O

02:02:29 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: 530 is pretty ideal, no? Sign of difficulty growth

02:03:08 decimation: you could fit a curve instead of line over a given interval

02:03:12 mircea_popescu: well ideal in what sense ? it's very unideal for his idea of timekeeping, because it proves (what we already knew) : time is meaningless and political time conventional, and all sorts of nutty fashions can endure a long time. ie, 350k blocks in this case.

02:03:19 funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1191982 <-- i thought she was going to jump back into jupiter's head a few days ago.. off on her merry way again

02:03:19 assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 19:54:23; decimation: maybe I should start watching venus too

02:03:34 mircea_popescu: decimation the problem of fitting real time to blocks is in fact going straight to the root of the world. solve it, get nobel.

02:03:35 decimation: funkenstein_: lol

02:03:39 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I guess. At the very least the cause of it is good though

02:03:41 mircea_popescu: or whatever actual respectable prize the nobel used to be

02:04:03 decimation: eh, it demands some modeling

02:04:15 mircea_popescu: noit a bad way to burn time, this assay.

02:04:16 williamdunne: I did a judging thing at teh loebner prize before. Was pretty lulzy

02:04:24 funkenstein_: i've heard tell of a distributed clock that might meet your needs

02:04:30 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00057271 = 40.0324 BTC [+] {4}

02:04:32 decimation: heh I got your entendre

02:04:57 funkenstein_: it's a prototype, the code might need some cleaning up

02:04:58 decimation: funkenstein_: what's that

02:05:18 funkenstein_: some financial software or other ;)

02:06:01 decimation: funkenstein_: were you the one studying clock intervals in bitcoin

02:06:23 funkenstein_: yes, i speak of bitcoin :)

02:07:17 funkenstein_: the quantity the a miner needs to report is the time since the last difficulty change

02:07:19 mircea_popescu: listen shorty, you read the log ?

02:07:39 funkenstein_: yes, enjoyed it.. sorry you are probably sick of this time talk already

02:07:57 mircea_popescu: wel lcause youre approaching it fresh

02:07:59 funkenstein_: other than that quantity, the rest is offset

02:08:21 mircea_popescu: yes, magical offset in that you don't know who's lying.

02:08:40 funkenstein_: genesis block tells you most of that offset

02:08:56 mircea_popescu: does not. looky here. block is 100, timestamp is 100, allowable max drift is 100.

02:09:10 mircea_popescu: block 101 arrives, at timestamp 150, advertising timestamp 101.

02:09:14 mircea_popescu: you set your timestamp to 101

02:09:26 mircea_popescu: block 102 arrives, at timestamp 200, advertising timestamp 250.

02:09:30 mircea_popescu: you reject it and now you're forked.

02:09:53 funkenstein_: the longest chain wins

02:09:56 mircea_popescu: no.

02:10:02 mircea_popescu: the longest ACCEPTABLE chain wins.

02:10:11 funkenstein_: right right

02:10:22 mircea_popescu: kneejerk the dwarf wtf!

02:11:15 funkenstein_: we can't know what procedure miners are using to set their own clocks

02:11:25 mircea_popescu: that'd be the problem.

02:11:37 funkenstein_: it's basically a jury duty scenario, you found a block, do your best to tell us what time it is

02:11:47 mircea_popescu: that's not how trustless works.

02:12:33 funkenstein_: well I think asciilifeform is formulating a more specific attack so that should be interesting

02:12:44 ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> so much as opening pogo and touching inside multiplies the cost of the operation. << and yet mircea_popescu had this done

02:12:52 ben_vulpes: for lulz as far as i can tell

02:13:29 mircea_popescu: for tests.

02:13:43 mircea_popescu: now if i ask dpb something about it, he can answer sensibly.

02:13:48 ben_vulpes: well clearly. just making a joke.

02:14:09 ben_vulpes: now, as you say, interested parties could find a rate for diddled pogos.

02:14:57 ben_vulpes: and on top of that, his error rate cracking them open is probably zero. small sample size, but...

02:15:10 mircea_popescu: no, it's not. he said some bits got broken

02:15:17 ben_vulpes: ah, my mistake

02:15:51 ben_vulpes: !up Vexual

02:17:22 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1192433 << bwhahaah

02:17:22 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 00:56:00; williamdunne: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel was checking my rates, out of interest what is my association with gamingfurry.tumblr.com?

02:17:25 mircea_popescu: the .. .baby face ?

02:17:56 williamdunne: Furry definitely isn't something I'd label myself with

02:18:05 danielpbarron: it's kinda tricky getting them open. I had to scuff up a credit card and yeah some of the inner clips got cracked

02:18:29 danielpbarron: and it took about an hour to do 12 of them

02:18:42 williamdunne: I might be into some things, but anthropomorphic animals aren't one of those things

02:18:42 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1192570 << at the risk of 'fleischmanning', i will say a little about the concept even though i am not yet done working it out

02:18:42 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 02:03:34; mircea_popescu: decimation the problem of fitting real time to blocks is in fact going straight to the root of the world. solve it, get nobel.

02:19:02 asciilifeform: won't be earning any 'nobels', there is no way in heaven or hell that it could be retrofitted to bitcoin proper

02:19:14 mircea_popescu: take yer time

02:20:37 *: asciilifeform takes mircea_popescu's advice, hushes

02:20:39 Vexual: hehe

02:23:07 mircea_popescu: ands now i shall leave you with http://41.media.tumblr.com/5f930017bebc54ed7b2723594a70d5f0/tumblr_n8xsxzmnYv1r8wl2xo1_1280.jpg while i go make moar coarse frangible threads

02:23:08 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DPW3BI )

02:23:54 menahem: ahh shit thats cray. :D

02:34:41 BingoBoingo: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tinder-date-woman-finds-novel-6010597

02:34:42 assbot: Tinder date woman finds novel way to hit back at man who told her she was too fat to fancy - Mirror Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZxPmc )

02:34:42 mod6: phf: hey it worked! sync'ing now... http://dpaste.com/1SZSGAJ.txt

02:34:43 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZxQXj )

02:35:47 funkenstein_: mod6, nice!

02:36:15 mod6: yes, this is fantastic really.

02:38:34 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: could he have been much nicer about it?

02:38:57 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Not at all, bitch needs to stop being a Ham.

02:39:00 asciilifeform: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21730/how-does-the-kimoto-gravity-well-regulate-difficulty << not related either to my idea or to pogo. mechanism used in one crackpot altcoin to dispense with need for absolute clock

02:39:01 assbot: algorithms - How does the Kimoto Gravity Well regulate difficulty? - Bitcoin Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZy3tA )

02:39:06 asciilifeform: (just need to time a block interval)

02:39:48 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Tinder causes this issue, experienced it in RO

02:40:13 BingoBoingo: Really

02:40:51 williamdunne: Aye, which was remarkable really. Didn't see any others. She was very nice and I still talk to her, but headshots and angles are good at lying

02:40:57 asciilifeform: http://blog.vertcoin.org/?p=5 << critic

02:40:58 assbot: Development update | Vertcoin Developers Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZydRx )

02:41:07 asciilifeform: from ~other~ crackpot alt.

02:41:29 *: asciilifeform changes gloves, gas mask filter

02:43:10 funkenstein_: seemingly a PID controller would be best for difficulty adjustment, however simplicity is a stronger argument

02:43:50 asciilifeform: this, again, isn't even related to what i was thinking of. but encountered by accident.

02:43:58 BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform changes gloves, gas mask filter << Shouldn't you step away from the cesium dust first?

02:44:05 *: asciilifeform has not been keeping track of crackpot 'coins' since 'litecoin'

02:44:19 funkenstein_: speaking thereof: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ci25k/the_current_spam_attack_on_bitcoin_is_not/

02:44:20 assbot: The current spam attack on Bitcoin is not economically feasible on Litecoin : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZywvF )

02:46:01 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Here the pic/reality discrepancy is so bad in a lot of cases it is like a fat person killed a normal with similar hair and started living their life.

02:46:25 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Yeah, she was definitely the same person. Only the body was not what the angles would have you believe

02:46:43 williamdunne: Don't believe she was wearing someone else's face either

02:46:59 asciilifeform: https://blockchain.info/address/162TRPRZvdgLVNksMoMyGJsYBfYtB4Q8tM >> who typically gets these ?

02:47:00 assbot: Bitcoin Address 162TRPRZvdgLVNksMoMyGJsYBfYtB4Q8tM ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZyTGB )

02:47:12 williamdunne: funkenstein_: In his defence, the litecoin solution actually seemed like a pretty good way to handle it

02:47:13 BingoBoingo: I mean seriously here, the faces look different. Literally have to be using other people's pictures.

02:47:22 asciilifeform: i mean, why has nobody picked it up

02:47:28 asciilifeform: 0.00541 is good money

02:47:45 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: I don't understand how they don't think "oh, maybe they'll be confused when they see me in person?"

02:50:09 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: hollywood gave them broken expectations. The moral they complain about is "look good get laid" when they take the worse insane moral of "the protagonist is witty and spechial"

02:50:40 williamdunne: !b 5

02:50:40 assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/21AC41Z.txt )

02:50:51 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: like anything else that works even though 'shouldn't', this works

02:51:29 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Are you suggesting that our tumblrina protagonist isn't witty, or special like the most specialist of snowflakes

02:54:16 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: except none of that crud is operative, it works from an elementary 'pigeonhole theorem' - many cocks, few parking spots

02:54:42 williamdunne: Drinking law in the UK is even more lax than I had realized

02:54:43 williamdunne: https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law

02:54:44 assbot: Alcohol and young people - GOV.UK ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZzPe9 )

02:55:39 BingoBoingo: No, example. Drinking at the bar with some friends. One fire up "Tinder" girl with nice pictures takes a cab across the mississippi river and walk into the bar. Diameter more than half her height. Recognizes friend, friend has no idea who she is.

02:56:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: she will get laid that day. whereas 90%+ of normal-looking blokes - won't.

02:56:18 asciilifeform: l337 m4rk3tz

02:56:39 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Note that in North America gay rights became popular as femal obesity rates spiked

02:56:56 decimation: lol blockchain.info is still posting 1-size blocks

02:57:22 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect that everybody who came from the factory with that vernier not glued down, is turning it, yes

02:57:24 asciilifeform: decimation: link ?

02:57:38 decimation: https://blockchain.info/

02:57:39 assbot: Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZA5db )

02:57:45 mats: lol

02:57:47 decimation: 2 in the last 30 minutes

02:57:55 mats: such social commentary

02:57:56 asciilifeform: ph0rkz!!!

02:58:02 decimation: I guess.

02:58:12 asciilifeform: ph0rkr4pht!

02:58:13 decimation: it would be interesting to know how blockchain.info gets its data

02:58:38 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: she will get laid that day. whereas 90%+ of normal-looking blokes - won't. << She apparently even managed to fuck this up. Reportedly gave friend sad handjob and blackmailed for attention the next day with promise of putting out eventually. Was driven to bar in the ghetto and left (could not run to vehicle in time to stop it)

02:58:45 *: williamdunne for a while no longer has to worry about getting laid

02:58:58 williamdunne: decimation: carrier pigeon, although it's suffering with pattern baldness

02:58:58 decimation: I hope those 'bitcoin core' dumbfucks are happy with the progress they are making

02:59:03 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i suspect that everybody who came from the factory with that vernier not glued down, is turning it, yes << 31337 social engineering

02:59:19 williamdunne: It really is remarkable how blockchain.info didn't go down the goxhole, they just consistently break

02:59:38 asciilifeform: because nobody really relies on it for anything

02:59:42 asciilifeform: hence failure - no problem

03:00:01 asciilifeform: https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000abdbee0b1c681c7bd3ebd5753af822fdaf7a6754e154b50

03:00:02 assbot: Bitcoin Block #364343 ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZAcW6 )

03:00:06 williamdunne: "MyWallet" ?

03:00:07 asciilifeform: https://blockchain.info/block/000000000000000009ba590de2819dd4b4f7741fc4b9fc9d45c2e1e00d0ca6ec

03:00:07 assbot: Bitcoin Block #364339 ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZAdcG )

03:02:26 decimation: interesting 364343 was relayed by 65.182.235.207

03:02:51 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: When piuk rolled out blockchain.info it was the best block explorer. Once he stopped doing everything it swiftly went to shit and got Andreas'd

03:02:56 decimation: which is purported to be in canby, oregon

03:03:14 decimation: wasn't that where the bctc guy lived?

03:03:45 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: I can't tolerate any of them currently. Blockchain.info is constantly broken, and all the others have these horrible gaudy interfaces.

03:04:33 decimation: it appears the coinbase one agrees with blockchain.info https://bitcoin.toshi.io/#block

03:04:35 assbot: Toshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZACM6 )

03:04:41 BingoBoingo: williamdunne: And this is what temps me to fuck with running an electrum server. To run a private block explorer accountable only to me when it barfs

03:05:02 williamdunne: BingoBoingo: no bootstrap plz

03:06:03 BingoBoingo: WHen have I ever used bootstrap?

03:06:31 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.0005515 = 4.9635 BTC [-]

03:06:31 williamdunne: It seems to be a default option, not a personal accusation

03:06:40 williamdunne: Qntra style would be lovely <3

03:07:34 asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CEB08E08EEF3C71AEC185767B076C306E945E535BE55A8CAAAB9378A9F7CD4D1 << missed by scoopbot ?

03:07:39 assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZAQ5O )

03:08:22 williamdunne: asciilifeform: Scoopbot doesn't deal with phuctor, that's trinquebot

03:08:24 asciilifeform: and what is 'marketplace.i2p' ?

03:08:33 asciilifeform: ( as seen in http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4FC297377727D7EDA1512181888ECF02A8A5E5BC9B8406B2BF852B84F32FD55A )

03:08:38 williamdunne: asciilifeform: I'd presume a marketplace on i2p

03:08:41 asciilifeform: well sure

03:08:44 asciilifeform: but ~what~

03:08:51 asciilifeform: anybody got a box running i2p?

03:08:53 asciilifeform: i can't be arsed

03:09:16 williamdunne: https://www.reddit.com/r/themarketplace/

03:09:18 assbot: The Market Place - An Anonymous Market Built To Enable Trustless Transactions. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZB4de )

03:09:24 williamdunne: mabbeh that one

03:14:47 decimation: asciilifeform: it strikes me that your choice of location is to some degree a 'prisoner's dilemma'.

03:14:58 asciilifeform: ?

03:15:08 decimation: everyone in your meatwot could probably get a better deal if they lived somewhere cheaper

03:15:22 asciilifeform: like botswana

03:15:29 decimation: but 'cooperation' in moving together is much more expensive than 'defection' to the local area

03:15:38 decimation: hell, west virginia

03:15:42 asciilifeform: one fella did

03:15:50 asciilifeform: now he sits in car for 4 hours instead of 2

03:15:53 trinque: to be fair, west virginia is a shithole

03:15:59 decimation: heh well that's not very much moving

03:16:09 decimation: trinque: sure, but it wouldn't be if people moved there

03:16:24 trinque: maybe so

03:16:24 decimation: why do they all defect to the big city every day

03:16:31 asciilifeform: it would also cost what maryland costs

03:16:34 asciilifeform: if folks moved there

03:16:35 trinque: most notable thing I recall about WV is that giant teapot

03:16:35 asciilifeform: elementary.

03:16:47 asciilifeform: as soon as you start moving in folks with money, it stops 'being cheap'

03:16:52 asciilifeform: the rent collectors don't sleep

03:17:09 decimation: asciilifeform: partially because more dollars are 'created' to bid up assets

03:17:22 williamdunne: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33414264

03:17:23 assbot: Canadian flew over Calgary in chair carried by balloons - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZBMqN )

03:17:23 williamdunne: Hilarious, he's being charged for this

03:17:23 asciilifeform: even if dollars were conserved

03:17:23 decimation: I suspect that problem wouldn't be as pronounced with a hard-banking hard currency

03:18:03 decimation: sure, folks would bid up assets, but the vast majority of bids in the wash dc area are 'zombies'

03:18:09 decimation: ie usg passthroughs

03:18:24 asciilifeform: and our collective salaries - aren't ?

03:18:32 trinque: "Mr Boria has been charged with mischief causing danger to life and could face further charges." << wait... his?

03:18:33 decimation: heh good point

03:18:59 decimation: the question is: how much of the money that is 'freshly printed' by the fed or a bank part of the wash dc bid?

03:19:07 decimation: that's theoretically measurable

03:19:28 asciilifeform: at this point, i don't regard any aspect of the whole orchestra as honestly measurable

03:19:37 asciilifeform: other than - just possibly - by the perpetrators

03:19:39 williamdunne: trinque: Yes, his. Unless they're suggesting his stray garden chair could mysteriously strike someone down

03:19:57 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2014#778096 << see also

03:19:58 assbot: Logged on 30-07-2014 13:57:29; asciilifeform: g: 'show me the real budget.' a: 'you're asking too much. that's off limits to you.'

03:20:25 decimation: you could multiply direct gov spending by the 'print factor'

03:20:48 decimation: but that would only capture a portion - it would exclude the portion magicked into existance by banks

03:20:51 asciilifeform: what does one get from multiplying one work of fiction by another ?

03:20:57 decimation: heh

03:21:05 asciilifeform: let's multiply width of unicorn's horn at its base by the length of yeti's cock

03:21:18 asciilifeform: equals depth of mermaid's snatch ?

03:21:23 decimation: then map the yeti/uni/heat cock

03:21:58 decimation: I guess it would be a useful as the map that nyt ran which indicated the density of racists over usa

03:22:07 asciilifeform: aha

03:22:23 *: asciilifeform wonders if they recycled map of communists from '50s or bothered to make a new one

03:23:32 decimation: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/us/f-16-and-small-private-plane-collide-in-midair-over-south-carolina.html < usg cares for its people

03:23:35 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZCowG )

03:24:42 asciilifeform: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/us/gun-shaped-iphone-case-is-a-terrible-idea-police-officials-warn.html << in other lulz

03:24:45 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZCuEv )

03:25:43 asciilifeform: 'Mr. Schumer said a federal law requires toy or imitation guns to feature a highly visible orange mark at the end of the barrel to identify them as harmless. Since the phone case does not have the marker, he said, he would work with customs officials to block its import and sale.' << l0l! srsly?

03:26:22 asciilifeform: 1) spray orange paint on 'thompson' 2) pull out in front of police 3) ??? 4) profit!!!111!

03:28:04 decimation: asciilifeform: note that the police are rarely punished for shooting innocents

03:28:52 decimation: http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html# < note that 'nigger' correlates with large black populations, similar for others

03:28:53 assbot: Hate Map ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZCQv1 )

03:29:29 asciilifeform: latest memo to police almost certainly reads 'plz shoot only white, thx'

03:30:20 mats: 'chink' doesn't correlate to california at all

03:30:55 mats: or any place with large asian populations that i'm aware of

03:31:21 mats: worst app ever

03:31:36 asciilifeform: mats is surprised to discover that unicorn's snatch depth does not correlate with mermaid's cock length ?

03:31:39 decimation: mats: note that the 'normalize by the number of tweets'

03:31:52 decimation: thus effectively discounting the liberal population centers

03:32:06 asciilifeform: thttp://www.hardforkcoin.org << for entomologists only!111!!1

03:32:09 decimation: so the self-serving bastards can come to the conclusion that those rednecks out in the sticks are the real racists

03:32:26 mats: so what i need an inverse contrast map

03:32:30 mats: and avoid everything else

03:32:34 decimation: heh yeah

03:32:41 mats: thats a lot of america

03:32:46 mats: but i knew that already

03:34:53 funkenstein_: metastudies of tweets <-- totally useless waste of time

03:35:58 decimation: funkenstein_: my favorite study of the issue: http://unamusementpark.com/2011/07/blacks-ruin-fourth-of-july-in-baltimore-media-censor-race/

03:36:00 assbot: Unamusement Park » Blog Archive » Blacks ruin Fourth of July in Baltimore; media censor race ... ( http://bit.ly/1HMCsW0 )

03:36:32 decimation: guy found tweets by black people in baltimore back during fourth of july 2011, when there was violence

03:36:39 asciilifeform: isn't that the fella who got 'beaten to death by accident' in a johannesburg police station ?

03:36:47 decimation: heh it might be

03:36:52 asciilifeform: i recall the liberast blogosphere laughing maniacally about this

03:36:57 asciilifeform: 'racist gets just deserts'

03:38:51 decimation: he seems to have posted in janurary

03:39:10 asciilifeform: perhaps it was the one who did 'across difficult country'

03:39:12 asciilifeform: i forget.

03:39:18 asciilifeform: don't give much of a shit any more

03:40:04 mats: i'm enjoying the tweets on that link, decimation

03:40:29 mats: ebonics has so much... variety

03:40:45 funkenstein_: i talk with criminal slang

03:42:02 funkenstein_: i read some tweets once, it was when dorian was being collected

03:42:07 funkenstein_: after that i vowed never again

03:44:17 decimation: mats: amusingly 'unamusement park' is totally blacklisted from all search engines

03:48:07 decimation: !up Vexual

03:50:44 Vexual: i think alf set his clock

03:51:32 funkenstein_: reminds me of Eddie Murphy's grandmother: "What time is it?"

03:52:30 funkenstein_: it might be an interesting simulation to see what would happen if not only all nodes but all miners had no real clock

03:53:01 funkenstein_: difficulty would stay constant I suppose

03:53:53 Vexual: can you describe celestial navigation to decimation?

03:54:11 funkenstein_: well the latitude is easy

03:54:51 funkenstein_: for longitude, i believe there is a book by sobel or something

03:55:13 decimation: http://asteroidoccultation.com/asteroid.htm < you can see local asteroid occulations

03:55:16 assbot: Asteroid Occultation Predictions (Current) ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZEfl2 )

03:55:55 decimation: you can calculate them yourself with winblows turdware and usg provided emphemeris data http://www.lunar-occultations.com/iota/occult4.htm

03:55:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZEigZ )

03:56:13 decimation: longitude requires knowledge of time

03:56:48 Vexual: what if your tables are from 1997?

03:57:59 funkenstein_: nothing under magnitude 10, makes it difficult on my canoe

03:58:20 funkenstein_: but I like it anyway

03:58:21 Vexual: what canoe?

03:58:35 Vexual: how far do you paddle?

03:59:34 funkenstein_: figure of speech

03:59:48 Vexual: aha

04:00:51 decimation: http://www.amazon.com/Long-Term-Almanac-2000-2050-Reduction/dp/0914025104 < tables to 2050

04:00:53 assbot: Long Term Almanac 2000-2050: For the Sun and Selected Stars With Concise Sight Reduction Tables, 2nd Edition: Geoffrey Kolbe: 9780914025108: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1HMFRnX )

04:01:07 Vexual: decimation: sight redution tables for nother lats are avail from .mil in pdf

04:01:58 Vexual: if you have a printer

04:05:27 Vexual: whats ur approx lat decimation?

04:05:58 Vexual: n/s?

04:06:45 decimation: around 40 n

04:07:13 Vexual: fuck thats a long way north

04:08:00 decimation: yeah, and uk is even father

04:08:03 decimation: farther

04:08:19 Vexual: really?

04:08:31 Vexual: i cant even geography

04:09:15 decimation: usg charges for their nautical almanacs

04:09:16 decimation: http://bookstore.gpo.gov/agency/1449

04:09:19 assbot: Nautical Almanac Office | U.S. Government Bookstore ... ( http://bit.ly/1CZEU67 )

04:09:31 Vexual: same infos free on .mil

04:09:41 decimation: australian?

04:09:52 Vexual: maybe, i dunno whats in thr almanac

04:09:57 Vexual: yes

04:09:58 decimation: yeah uk is roughly 50-60 n

04:10:15 decimation: london is 51 n

04:10:24 decimation: it's relatively warm because of the gulf stream

04:10:39 Vexual: 50s at aussie long is firmly in a world of shit

04:11:10 decimation: ottawa, canada is roughly 45 n for instance

04:11:13 decimation: but much colder

04:11:33 Vexual: theres no land to slow the wind at 50s

04:12:08 decimation: 50 s is well south of tasmania

04:13:41 decimation: that's probably why nobody lives on macquarie island

04:14:50 Vexual: it might be national park

04:15:22 Vexual: on eny given day you might meet a horny marine biologist

04:16:22 decimation: yeah apparently they killed all the mammals

04:17:51 ben_vulpes: http://people.csail.mit.edu/hofma/Assets/Thesis_12_02_2005.pdf << okay now this is cool

04:17:59 Vexual: yeah rats, i saw that

04:25:03 mats: man

04:25:23 mats: i set up a raid0 with two SSDs

04:25:37 mats: and windoze updates on this box still takes hours wtf

04:26:40 mats: \o/

04:35:08 ben_vulpes: > windows

04:35:10 ben_vulpes: mk

04:35:23 ben_vulpes: help i am 1200 lines behind

04:35:54 mircea_popescu: have less sex.

04:39:31 ben_vulpes: do y'all eventually get to why averaging out umpteen 2016 blocks won't work in place of timekeeping?

04:39:33 asciilifeform: !b 3

04:39:34 assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2J2VN7A.txt )

04:39:47 decimation: about 80% of it: use ntp! no time itself is owned by usg and so are all servers and isps!

04:39:50 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: for the same reason pulling one's cock doesn't work as a means of flight

04:40:05 ben_vulpes: what?

04:40:21 asciilifeform: 'in place of timekeeping'

04:40:54 ben_vulpes: sorry, diff adjustments.

04:41:12 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they take place with wall clock as invariant

04:41:22 asciilifeform: i spent all morning trying to hammer this into thick headz

04:41:56 asciilifeform: if you plug block times into wall clock, letting the former adjust the latter, you've plugged arse into mouth

04:41:58 ben_vulpes: made good progress i see

04:42:01 asciilifeform: and are no longer using classical bitcoin

04:42:26 ben_vulpes: alas.

04:42:39 ben_vulpes: the thing is miserably bad anyways, why would anyone want to use it?

04:42:47 asciilifeform: still lost on me

04:43:10 ben_vulpes: anyways, how do you plan to handle this on pogos?

04:43:37 asciilifeform: no idea

04:43:44 asciilifeform: left it to ben_vulpes to solve

04:44:08 ben_vulpes: you know i'm not even convinced a node *should* be stood up without human intervention.

04:44:18 asciilifeform: then shouldn't have any interest in pogo

04:44:27 asciilifeform: because whole fucking point of it is that and only that.

04:44:38 ben_vulpes: well "should" is a strong word

04:45:04 asciilifeform: point of pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin.

04:45:15 asciilifeform: (and don't forget the merely lazy)

04:45:21 decimation: ben_vulpes: it seemed that there was some some concensus around the idea of randomly selecting a small set of ntp servers out of a large pre-defined set

04:45:39 decimation: this doesn't solve the "pogo clock is shit" problem

04:45:41 asciilifeform: except then danielpbarron reminded us that this will have to happen regularly

04:45:45 asciilifeform: because the thing drifts to all hell

04:46:09 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68400 @ 0.00055147 = 37.7205 BTC [-] {2}

04:46:15 asciilifeform: (marvell chipset ~has~ rtc, but the vendor omitted the 32kHz crystal and power source.)

04:46:17 ben_vulpes: i'm sure moreso under load

04:46:22 asciilifeform: so it uses interrupt-based timing, like msdos

04:46:25 asciilifeform: aha, ben_vulpes has it

04:46:34 decimation: which means continous correction is nearly required

04:47:14 ben_vulpes: myeah, i see that.

04:47:41 decimation: asciilifeform: as to ass-to-mouth system, it depends on your error model for thblock timestamps

04:47:56 asciilifeform: arse-to-mouth is a strictly fact-of thing

04:47:57 decimation: imagine each miner has his own cesium clock

04:48:05 asciilifeform: and meet in the flesh to sync it ?

04:48:10 asciilifeform: let's also imagine dragons.

04:48:28 asciilifeform: try to grasp why political time is a fiction

04:48:34 asciilifeform: and why rsa signatures do not make it less of one

04:48:57 decimation: asciilifeform: it's really hard to imagine when < 100 ns accuracy is nearly freely and reliably avaialable

04:49:02 asciilifeform: picture the proverbial devil in the cable. he perhaps cannot diddle your packets (because you signed them, and have traded pubkeys in person) but he can... delay them

04:49:05 asciilifeform: as long as he likes

04:49:08 asciilifeform: and also can replay.

04:49:29 asciilifeform: the accuracy doesn't matter because you have no way of knowing whether the above have been done to you

04:49:30 asciilifeform: and when

04:51:04 asciilifeform: much of our thought takes place in an imaginary world where communication is instantaneous, perfectly reliable, and perfectly incorruptible. but we do not actually live in that world.

04:51:35 asciilifeform: nor do we get the luxury of precise, predictable delta from that world.

04:53:11 decimation: ntp has provisions against replay and deplay attacks

04:53:24 asciilifeform: replay i can see

04:53:27 asciilifeform: but delay ?

04:53:33 asciilifeform: how ?

04:53:46 asciilifeform: let me guess, by comparing the behaviour of one node with others

04:53:52 asciilifeform: aka lifting yourself up by own cock.

04:54:30 asciilifeform: in my expected battlefield, chances are that either none of your links are sybils, or ALL OF THEM ARE

04:54:51 asciilifeform: comparing a subset of your field of vision with the rest does nothing against the latter.

04:55:04 decimation: plus the behaviour of one node over time

04:55:12 asciilifeform: can be perfectly consistent

04:55:16 asciilifeform: while leading you straight to hell

04:56:47 asciilifeform: all of this goes back to the 'protocol vs promises' discussion

04:57:01 asciilifeform: it is possible to count the pulses of a pulsar, of cesium atom, of quartz, etc

04:57:15 asciilifeform: but as soon as you ask another person 'what time is it' you are playing political games

04:57:22 decimation: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/onwire.html The symmetric modes operate using a sequence of rounds, each consisting of a transmit packet followed by a receive packet, but either of both of these packets could be lost. A round is correct if both packets are correctly received. In order to verify correctness of the protocol, it is necessary to prove a liveness assertion; that is, the protocol always yields a correct round even if after

04:57:23 assbot: Object not found! ... ( http://bit.ly/1NN9O7t )

04:57:23 asciilifeform: there is not actually a way out of this

04:57:43 mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> you know i'm not even convinced a node *should* be stood up without human intervention. << this may be true.

04:58:11 asciilifeform: ^ then there ought to be 100 nodes, running on 'microvax'

04:58:15 mircea_popescu: and the followin line does not follow. some intelligent people are poor, or more to wit : some poor people are (allegedly) intelligent. i doub this is true. but if it were, pogo is their way out.

04:58:19 asciilifeform: because that's how many people alive are ~actually qualified~

04:58:23 mircea_popescu: and if they fail to find it, or to take it, you have no case.

04:58:50 mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> point of pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin. << no. well meaning stupid is the LAST thing we want. i'd rather import us academia.

04:59:00 asciilifeform: then wtf is the point

04:59:08 mircea_popescu: what you want is the alleged minialfs who exist. people who supposedly could use the head, but somehow magically "not enough fuel"

04:59:32 asciilifeform: and if it has to be blessed with the magical breath of life of intelligence every time mains power flickers, it is a proverbial 'assembly line requiring ph.d.s' to borrow from al schwartz

04:59:35 asciilifeform: i.e. a sad joke

04:59:39 mircea_popescu: now this is true

04:59:47 mircea_popescu: but notice that this does not run as far as the previous

04:59:48 asciilifeform: that's all i was trying to say

04:59:56 mircea_popescu: aite.

05:00:23 asciilifeform: there is also cuckoldry aspect here

05:00:30 asciilifeform: one ought to be able to drop pogos on a dumb corp's net

05:00:35 asciilifeform: and have them operate

05:01:03 asciilifeform: no shortage of eligible cuckolds and cuckolders for this

05:01:10 asciilifeform: but it has to be practical

05:01:13 decimation: I view the firewall/nat problem as much bigger

05:01:13 mircea_popescu: if you can do that, comandeer a server.

05:01:18 mircea_popescu: less noticeable than "wtf is this new item"

05:01:31 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many, many more people who can 'commandeer' a broom closet with ethernet

05:01:33 asciilifeform: believe.

05:01:50 asciilifeform: and hardly ever anyone asks 'what is this'

05:01:51 mircea_popescu: so no, i do not believe pogo has anything to do with http://fraudsters.com/open-parasitic-p2p-relay

05:01:52 assbot: [OPEN] Parasitic P2P Relay on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaB8D )

05:01:59 asciilifeform: not directly.

05:02:12 mircea_popescu: also in the news : the well rounded education. http://41.media.tumblr.com/00c3d0c2cdb22bedb8754888b020266e/tumblr_mtfjsjpKCf1ryftdoo1_1280.jpg

05:02:14 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaCJC )

05:02:21 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you need a million tyler durdens.

05:02:39 ben_vulpes: and they *can* bless a pogo.

05:02:47 asciilifeform: i thought those just set things on fire ?

05:03:07 ben_vulpes: and pogo is?

05:03:12 decimation: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-mob-technology-consultants-help-drug-traffickers/ < "The device they built looked like a European version of a power strip. Tucked inside a 15-by-5-inch casing was a tiny Linux computer running powerful hacking software called Metasploit. The pwnie sent out data via cellular networks, which meant they could be accessed from anywhere."

05:03:12 assbot: The Mob's IT Department | Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaNVl )

05:03:25 asciilifeform: a land mine that has to be rebooted by hand every few weeks is a sad joke.

05:03:27 asciilifeform: i stand by this.

05:03:41 decimation: maybe the land mine reboots you

05:03:56 asciilifeform: decimation: not only classic, but so cliche that there are 1,001 commercial copies

05:03:57 mircea_popescu: " running powerful hacking software called Metasploit"

05:03:58 decimation: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114367/

05:03:59 assbot: Planète hurlante (1995) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1NNaSbF )

05:04:01 mircea_popescu: who the fuck still reads these things

05:04:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, actually, it's a good idea.

05:04:26 mircea_popescu: i'd like land mines like that. so would every army out there.

05:04:26 decimation: apparently some mobster in amsterdam recruited a couple of nerds to exploit shipping companies

05:04:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you want them on the other side, aha

05:04:51 asciilifeform: shoot the idiots while they crawl around rebooting.

05:04:58 mircea_popescu: no, the problem with landmines atm is that they can't be safely defused

05:05:05 mircea_popescu: if you got 100% guaranteed 2 week only mines, o boy.

05:05:11 asciilifeform: the 'safe defuse with key' thing already exists

05:05:11 mircea_popescu: you'd be rich with this. fo realz.

05:05:15 asciilifeform: notice, not popular

05:05:23 mircea_popescu: cuz not reliable.

05:05:30 asciilifeform: dun think thats why

05:05:36 asciilifeform: rather, because winblowz

05:05:36 mircea_popescu: a 99.999% success rate is the last thing you want.

05:05:41 mircea_popescu: drop 1mn mines, get killed 10 times.

05:05:46 asciilifeform: this is sop btw

05:05:53 asciilifeform: ask folks who work with frags

05:06:03 asciilifeform: there is a certain statistic for how many have, e.g., 1sec fuse

05:06:10 asciilifeform: (if rated is 5)

05:06:28 asciilifeform: 'get killed 10 times' is actually doing pretty well ahead of the curve!

05:07:11 decimation: yeah plenty of folks die trying to learn how to throw gernades

05:07:17 asciilifeform: the reason, afaik, why 'defuse with key' did not catch on is a ~well-founded~ distrust of computer

05:07:49 asciilifeform: 'computer', to an experienced commander, means 'twerp will cast a spell and enemy will walk clean across, shredding you'

05:08:05 asciilifeform: this is what 25 yrs of winblowz did to the mind

05:08:23 asciilifeform: it'll be generations after a sane computer exists that this kind of thinking even gets a chance of drawing to a close.

05:08:29 decimation: also 'we need soldiers who can do that'

05:09:14 ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> want a fucking WALL POSTER << codebase isn't that bad, should be doable by hand :P

05:09:20 asciilifeform: for contrast: i just finished a neat little book (ru) on early artillery

05:09:39 asciilifeform: early cannoneers accepted double-digit chances of being blown up by own barrel

05:09:48 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: go, do

05:09:54 ben_vulpes: no, u

05:09:57 asciilifeform: then swear with your life that it's 100% covered

05:10:16 asciilifeform: 'isn't that bad' l0l

05:10:30 ben_vulpes: heh

05:12:30 asciilifeform: decimation: re: 'round trip' ntp - you still are at the mercy of local clock's accuracy when computing the trip time

05:12:44 ben_vulpes: <trinque> haha holy shit, dxr's "install" method is vagrant << see also gitlab

05:12:46 asciilifeform: if your local clock is shit, i can still induce you to rely on it more, more

05:12:50 asciilifeform: and drift.

05:13:01 decimation: yes, true

05:13:01 ben_vulpes: vast quantities of braindamage.

05:13:19 decimation: ultimately there's no substitute for good hardware

05:13:46 asciilifeform: i am trying - and apparently failing - to make the point that there is no such thing as 'good hardware' for finding out 'what time' it is on ~my~ atomic clock from across an ocean.

05:13:58 asciilifeform: just so happens that the universe is 'bad hardware' for that.

05:14:08 asciilifeform: even before you add a war

05:14:40 decimation: and yet, even usg manages to keep orbital rb clocks ticking

05:14:44 ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> phf: No, not yet. On OpenBSD I'm running an 0.7.2 derivative with LibreSSL 2.0 just to see how it behaves. << how's the libressl build going?

05:14:56 asciilifeform: decimation: timebases!

05:14:57 asciilifeform: not clocks

05:15:02 asciilifeform: try to grasp the difference

05:15:12 asciilifeform: and notice how easy it is to spoof'em

05:15:23 asciilifeform: the thing is a house of cards

05:16:04 decimation: if your point is that they are centrally disciplined that's probably true

05:16:11 asciilifeform: not only

05:16:20 asciilifeform: but defenseless against a kid with sdr card.

05:16:27 ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...

05:17:02 asciilifeform: chunk of meat in the desert, that flies have not found yet

05:17:37 decimation: at any rate, your objection to coordinating clocks seems to boil down to "can't carry messages of a known latency over spacetime"

05:17:45 decimation: how is this not the case?

05:18:54 asciilifeform: if we were in space war, could probably carry on with something like the naive notion of clocks

05:18:58 asciilifeform: limited only by sr, etc

05:19:02 asciilifeform: but we are not in space.

05:19:07 asciilifeform: but in a hell, with devils

05:19:12 asciilifeform: on every wire.

05:19:26 decimation: so your objection boils down to 'enemy controls means of communication'

05:19:30 asciilifeform: aha.

05:19:30 decimation: which is a reasonable point

05:19:40 decimation: but is applicable to the entire bitcoin enterprise equally

05:19:44 asciilifeform: it is not.

05:19:47 asciilifeform: because proof-of-work.

05:19:55 asciilifeform: i can tell a zero-diff block and so can you

05:20:05 asciilifeform: some things cannot be faked.

05:20:22 asciilifeform: rsa also exists, and this prevents certain other spurious items

05:20:32 asciilifeform: but these do not add up to a trustworthy clock.

05:21:07 decimation: this only emphasizes the point that there needs to be alternate communication media available

05:21:24 decimation: ionosphere will relay for free, cannot be pwned by usg

05:21:35 asciilifeform: most fundamental problem is that distributed clocks are infinitely sybilable.

05:21:45 asciilifeform: how the fuck do i know what is on the other end of ionosphere?

05:21:48 asciilifeform: man, or usg gnome ?

05:21:54 decimation: you just said, rsa can solve that problem

05:22:08 asciilifeform: only if i'm personally friends with fella who owns clock

05:22:15 decimation: indeed.

05:22:16 asciilifeform: and the wall time i want to know is specifically his

05:22:20 decimation: or he's in your wot somehow

05:22:48 decimation: if 99% of miners use usg time, what's the use of wot-time?

05:23:14 asciilifeform: if 99% of miners use gavincoin and spv, what is the use of therealbitcoin ?

05:23:22 decimation: excellent question

05:24:00 asciilifeform: i suspect that mircea_popescu might answer that it is for the next set of miners

05:24:07 asciilifeform: after the current set gets ddt sprayed on them

05:24:14 asciilifeform: like all locusts deserve

05:25:13 decimation: the idea of a crypto-radio-clock intrigues me

05:26:02 decimation: I have a few sketches for such a thing, but I can't get around the problem of fixed keys that need to be distributed to listeners

05:26:05 asciilifeform: i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks.

05:26:10 asciilifeform: at least, clocks in the usual political sense.

05:26:31 decimation: that auto-scaling-difficulty thing seems crazy though

05:26:38 decimation: at least on a per-block basis

05:26:47 asciilifeform: it is clearly not the solution

05:26:54 asciilifeform: i linked to it to illustrate the sheer batshit

05:26:58 decimation: heh

05:27:25 asciilifeform: the solution is to force the miners themselves into behaving like a pendulum with a period from which they, collectively, deviate at their peril.

05:27:32 asciilifeform: i promise to explain this later.

05:27:58 decimation: sounds like it would involve incrementing the protocol version

05:28:10 asciilifeform: it absolutely cannot work with classical bitcoin

05:28:15 decimation: but it is an interesting idea

05:28:21 asciilifeform: and thus i am not entirely sure who would find it interesting here, and why

05:28:50 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Still sync'd on BritneyChain

05:29:33 asciilifeform: basic idea involves 'left-handed' and 'right-handed' miners, with game-theoretical reward matrix of being one depending on the first derivative in the hashing power of the other.

05:29:56 asciilifeform: still trying to model this.

05:30:20 ben_vulpes: i think mircea_popescu designed something like that for eulora

05:30:24 asciilifeform: did he ?

05:30:32 asciilifeform: link ?

05:30:43 ben_vulpes: players vs. the game. conversation in ars.

05:30:49 asciilifeform: hm

05:30:57 asciilifeform: i suppose he can answer when reads log..

05:31:05 ben_vulpes: balancing of rewards for being mage/barbarian/etc over time

05:31:32 asciilifeform: essentially you want the entire network to have a 'resonant frequency'

05:31:38 asciilifeform: which can now be your timebase.

05:32:37 asciilifeform: why settle for little quartz crystals

05:32:52 asciilifeform: when you can use a planet-sized resonator.

05:32:53 decimation: that reminds me of schumann resonances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

05:32:53 assbot: Schumann resonances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIq0aS )

05:33:08 asciilifeform: decimation: i'm still waiting to read a non-batshit explanation of schumann

05:33:13 asciilifeform: (was also thinking of it earlier today)

05:33:16 decimation: hehe

05:33:33 decimation: it's lightning sprites and earthquakes

05:33:49 decimation: actually I suspect the solar wind buffeting the magnetosphere is a factor

05:34:17 asciilifeform: what i meant was, i'd like to see a rational calculation of why the freq.

05:34:27 asciilifeform: until then, it's voodo

05:35:19 decimation: this crazy czech runs a vaccum-pendulum radio clock http://ok0epb.nagano.cz/index.php?page=Main+page/

05:35:19 assbot: Main page - OK0EPB - 7 039,4 kHz ... ( http://bit.ly/1IIqgXm )

05:35:44 asciilifeform: state-of-the-art till the '50s iirc

05:38:17 *: asciilifeform bbl

06:21:19 ag3nt_zer0: !rate trinque 1 very helpful to noob

06:21:19 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/c39f0df9608c7058

06:22:31 ag3nt_zer0: !rate shinohai 1 great help to noob

06:22:31 assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/49ae2cc4cb75f970

06:23:45 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84300 @ 0.00054193 = 45.6847 BTC [-] {4}

06:33:24 trinque: ag3nt_zer0: thanks guy

06:33:38 trinque: ben_vulpes: so pipelinedb turned out to be YC shitware

06:33:46 trinque: http://www.pipelinedb.com/

06:33:47 assbot: PipelineDB—The Streaming SQL Database ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjMpkj )

06:34:25 trinque: all they did can be done with triggers, background workers and materialized views

06:34:35 trinque: and they had the nerve to *RENAME POSTGRESQL TO SOMETHING ELSE*

06:36:49 trinque: meanwhile they did not do the one thing that might've been interesting (that I can see), which would've been to fire pg_notify events when the results of a given view change

06:59:29 punkman: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-08/china-trade-halts-hit-2-2-trillion-as-state-intervention-fails

06:59:30 assbot: China Stock Sellers Frozen Out of 71% of Market - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjP4KO )

07:04:26 punkman: "The eurozone has given Greece until Thursday to present new proposals to secure a deal with creditors, and has called a full EU summit for Sunday."

07:14:52 mircea_popescu: yep, it's the end of the world.

07:15:13 mircea_popescu: after this unwinds 1929 will look like glbse by comparison.

07:15:45 punkman: I'll stock up on Tetris http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27846-tetris-blocks-traumatic-flashbacks-even-after-the-memory-is-fixed.html

07:15:46 assbot: Tetris blocks traumatic flashbacks even after the memory is fixed - health - 06 July 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjR4mf )

07:20:13 punkman: lots of greek banks in the balkans, I wonder what's gonna happen with those

07:23:41 punkman: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e2a57c5e809f4da3a46aa7c1ba94bf10/exposed-greek-banks-balkans-brace-trouble

07:23:42 assbot: Exposed to Greek banks, Balkans brace for trouble ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjRY22 )

07:25:09 mircea_popescu: PatentChina 1 hour ago

07:25:09 mircea_popescu: imagine what will happen if month later no china crash is seen? but USA has advantage that it will never feel shame. one lie does not come true, there is another one. and in the end they can still say china has hacked usa without any evidences. Repeating lies 1000 times, it becomes truth. that is how USA invaded Iraq.

07:25:10 mircea_popescu: lol

07:27:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, hopefully they manage to prop it, because if they do not and people start unwinding us holdings on the grounds of the massive yuan profits to be thus made, that's that.

07:30:11 mircea_popescu: !up ValentinJesse

07:41:39 ag3nt_zer0: "But getting the game into a person's hands immediately after they have been raped, for example, won't always be practical, so the team tested whether it could still work a day later – after the memory had been consolidated and slept on." haha

08:04:38 jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1192874 not TRIMmed, praps?

08:04:38 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 04:25:37; mats: and windoze updates on this box still takes hours wtf

09:00:25 cazalla: good logs, good meal, no good wine to go with it but 2/3 ain't bad eh

09:30:49 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00055343 = 25.015 BTC [+] {2}

10:30:43 gabriel_laddel: williamdunne: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-06-2015#1153851

10:30:43 assbot: Logged on 04-06-2015 15:16:44; williamdunne: http://gamingfurry.tumblr.com/

10:35:44 gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193046 << bahahaha

10:35:44 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:16:27; ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...

11:57:13 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40748 @ 0.00055343 = 22.5512 BTC [+]

12:18:05 funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin

12:21:01 funkenstein_: the problem of what kind of clock foot soldier P needs depends on exact specification of role foot soldier P needs to play

12:22:35 funkenstein_: a node with no clock could still be a useful one, depending on what you had in mind

12:36:21 punkman: ;;view 22382

12:36:23 gribble: #22382 Wed Jul 8 08:30:46 2015 punkman SELL 1.0 night @ 1.3 btc (Seaside villa in Creta, Greece. 4bdr, sleeps 8, a/c, wifi, etc. 3min walk to beach. discounts on certain dates. http://i.imgur.com/DqYiA5O.jpg)

12:38:07 gabriel_laddel: !up diana_coman

12:38:13 kakobrekla: punkman yours?

12:39:15 punkman: kakobrekla: no, but I've been there a few times

12:40:57 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8202 @ 0.00055343 = 4.5392 BTC [+]

13:01:59 kakobrekla: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/in-russia-selfie-takes-you-prompts-official-safety-selfie-warning/

13:02:00 assbot: In Russia, selfie takes you, prompts official “safety selfie” warning | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1NSgQIW )

13:03:11 bagels7: Hi, does anyone happen to know the title of that fraudsters article that explains how women are immature and basically blame men for their shortcomings

13:06:35 bagels7: who needs money. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjUJIziMe-4

13:06:36 assbot: Ten Years After - I'd Love To Change The World (lyrics) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NShKVE )

13:07:03 gabriel_laddel: !rated bagels7

13:07:03 assbot: You have not rated bagels7.

13:07:09 gabriel_laddel: !gettrust bagels7

13:07:09 assbot: Trust relationship from user gabriel_laddel to user bagels7: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=gabriel_laddel&to=bagels7 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/bagels7/

14:07:25 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/07/days-after-hacking-team-breach-nobody-fired-no-customers-lost << mega-l0l

14:07:27 assbot: Days after Hacking Team breach, nobody fired, no customers lost | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1MeFt1k )

14:07:27 gribble: The operation succeeded.

14:08:11 thestringpuller: cazalla: BingoBoingo http://www.comcastro.com/podcast-virtual-currency-bitcoin-new-world-order-stevie-frederick/ << i did a qntra shoutout there

14:08:33 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193160 << 'Fixed difficulty (0.05) / Block reward reduces 4% every 1000 blocks' (from tardstalk)

14:08:33 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 12:18:05; funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin

14:08:58 asciilifeform: and appears to be long-dead... to nobody's great surprise

14:09:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193162 << can be very useful as a boat anchor! or balloon ballast.

14:09:15 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 12:22:35; funkenstein_: a node with no clock could still be a useful one, depending on what you had in mind

14:11:53 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: when you can use a planet-sized resonator. << each planet would have a different frequency

14:12:19 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: was not speaking of the chunk of rock per se. see thread.

14:21:29 asciilifeform: '...Greece's creditors refuse to consider declaring all of this bad debt null and void?not because of anything having to do with Greece, which is small enough to be forgiven much of its bad debt without causing major damage, but because of Spain, Italy and others, which, if similarly forgiven, would blow up the finances of the entire European Union. Thus, it is rather obvious that Greece is being punished to keep other count

14:21:29 asciilifeform: ries in line... Add to this a double-helping of double standards. The IMF won't lend to Greece because it requires some assurance of repayment; but it will continue to lend to the Ukraine, which is in default and collapsing rapidly, without any such assurances because, you see, the decision is a political one. The European Central Bank no longer accepts Greek bonds as collateral because, you see, it considers them to be junk;

14:21:30 asciilifeform: but it will continue to suck in all sorts of other financial garbage and use it to spew forth Euros without comment, keeping other European countries on financial life support simply because they aren't Greece.'

14:21:44 asciilifeform: ( http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/07/financial-nonsense-overload.html )

14:21:45 assbot: ClubOrlov: Financial Nonsense Overload ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnSkEf )

14:28:06 decimation: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/07/08/report-big-job-cuts-expected-microsoft/29853657/ "Microsoft's deal to acquire Nokia's handset business in 2013 -- one of the last acts of outgoing CEO Steve Ballmer -- has been a "head-scratcher" from the beginning, says FBR Capital Markets analyst Daniel Ives."

14:28:07 assbot: Microsoft cutting up to 7,800 jobs ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnTuzw )

14:32:34 asciilifeform: decimation: just how many people does the redmond beast need to collect winblowz rent and craft 'bugs' ?

14:32:49 asciilifeform: i doubt they need as many as 700

14:34:23 funkenstein_: masked gunman to clerk: "I'm here to keep you on financial life support"

14:34:42 asciilifeform: !b 1

14:34:43 assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/20MK5PF.txt )

14:35:21 mats: http://www.fpgarelated.com/showarticle/790.php

14:35:22 assbot: Homebrew CPUs: Messing around with a J1 - Victor Yurkovsky ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnUJir )

14:36:20 asciilifeform: mats: i remember that one - pretty neat! http://www.excamera.com/sphinx/fpga-j1.html << original www of it

14:36:22 assbot: The J1 Forth CPU — excamera ... ( http://bit.ly/1gnUVOA )

14:41:56 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76353 @ 0.00057177 = 43.6564 BTC [+] {3}

14:44:28 jurov: ;;ticker

14:44:29 gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 273.09, Best ask: 273.16, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 273.08, 24 hour volume: 28460.65127183, 24 hour low: 263.0, 24 hour high: 274.11, 24 hour vwap: None

15:02:50 decimation: that forth cpu seems similar to that 'picolisp' cpu

15:03:46 mats: o lawd

15:03:53 mats: the end is nigh

15:19:21 funkenstein_: http://pastebin.com/EdtwCsw1 <-- just for fun i made signed 250kb TX sending 11 millies from "cat" spam address to thebitcoin.foundation treasury

15:19:22 assbot: 01000000fdb40402806ffd51e0b01cc9254067cd12878c9b5869d7ee30a56843c9e16590fea57b02 - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1NSGH3p )

15:19:35 funkenstein_: but i was unable to broadcast

15:24:39 danielpbarron: apparently transactions larger than some magic number cannot even get relayed by nodes, and only a miner can forcibly include it in a block

15:28:52 jurov: mircea hit that with bitbet payouts, there's vitriolic fraudsters piece somewhere

15:29:17 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i was more imagining each planet having it's own blockchain, but I guess that's

15:29:27 jurov: danielpbarron: you tried to feed it to 0.5.3.1 ?

15:34:47 mod6: thestringpuller: if they did, it'd be an altcoin aka; marscoin, uranuscoin etc

15:37:22 thestringpuller: mod6: lol ur-anus-coin

15:37:26 thestringpuller: hue hue

15:38:16 mod6: =]

15:44:30 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would they fire anyone ?

15:44:41 mircea_popescu: they're lucky anyone at all wants to work for them as it is.

15:48:02 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193020 << sure, this is a fact.

15:48:02 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:09:39; asciilifeform: early cannoneers accepted double-digit chances of being blown up by own barrel

15:48:56 shinohai: heh: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102806720

15:49:01 danielpbarron: jurov> danielpbarron: you tried to feed it to 0.5.3.1 << is it possible? when I type 'bitcoind help' I do not see the "send raw signed transaction" command

15:49:29 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193059 << myeah.

15:49:29 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:19:44; asciilifeform: it is not.

15:49:43 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron iirc asciilifeform made a patch

15:49:56 mircea_popescu: o nm that was fpr whole blocks

15:50:04 jurov: maybe i'm mistaken, i thought it was alwas possible to submit tx

15:50:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193066 << i would not bet on that.

15:50:31 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:21:24; decimation: ionosphere will relay for free, cannot be pwned by usg

15:50:48 mircea_popescu: nah jurov i recall people using their own tools for that throughout

15:51:27 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193079 << miners have no identity.

15:51:27 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:24:07; asciilifeform: after the current set gets ddt sprayed on them

15:51:55 mircea_popescu: they are the exact equivalent of materiel. the humvees the usg lost to isis work for isis just as well.

15:53:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193083 << this is rank nonsense. to be money it will have to handle time.

15:53:13 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:26:05; asciilifeform: i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks.

15:53:27 danielpbarron: > bitcoind: Argument list too long << my 0.7.2 node didn't like it

15:53:29 mircea_popescu: what you're saying is basically "i'm more interested in food that doesn't rely on being digested"

15:57:15 danielpbarron: i don't think it's even checking the validity of the tx, and is instead rejecting the hex string as being too long; I can get my 0.5.3 node to give the same error and it doesn't recognize the method

15:58:38 mircea_popescu: lol 0.7 implemented tx manipulation that doesn't work on 1mb sized txn ?

16:03:42 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193153 << better than the queen gets.

16:03:42 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 09:00:25; cazalla: good logs, good meal, no good wine to go with it but 2/3 ain't bad eh

16:04:20 jurov: danielpbarron i tried electrum, it parsed tx properly

16:04:32 jurov: but broadcast error: {u'message': u'64: tx-size', u'code': -26}

16:06:57 williamdunne: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193046 << nah, I wasn't the one being asphyxiated, and the marks are not the result of it

16:06:57 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:16:27; ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...

16:08:17 gabriel_laddel: it's okay, no one here will judge you :p

16:09:06 *: williamdunne pondering on confessing to my skat fetish

16:09:25 gabriel_laddel: ;; ud skat

16:09:26 gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skat | skat. taking a shit in someones mouth and having them eat it. I love getting a big load of skat in my mouth its so good. by skat eater September 20, 2003. 419 333.

16:09:48 mircea_popescu: o.o

16:09:59 mircea_popescu: ;;google scatman

16:10:00 gribble: THE SCATMAN - Scatman John HD1080p - YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6oXW_YiV6g; Scatman (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-bop) Official Video HD -Scatman John ...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8kmNEo1i8; Scatman John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scatman_John

16:19:02 williamdunne: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/07/us-usa-crime-childporn-idUSKCN0PH24C20150707

16:19:04 assbot: FBI seized child porn website with 215,000 users: court filing | Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1IJsTYO )

16:19:04 williamdunne: North

16:19:04 williamdunne: Carolina

16:19:05 williamdunne: Server

16:22:28 gabriel_laddel: what are cat cables and how do I network computers together without a web browser.

16:26:00 williamdunne: You've got to connect the CAT 3 BSD cable into your Universal Parallel Networking port and install the latest ApacheBSD drivers, and then BGP route your HardDrive into the global local network, repeating these steps for each computer on the network. And once this is complete you plug cables into each of your available body holes and pray for IP issuance, prior to jamming each cable into your nearest USB hub

16:26:51 jurov: that reads like eulora recipes

16:27:20 gabriel_laddel: oh, sorry, I should have made it clear I was referring to the child pornography thing

16:28:05 williamdunne: jurov: Well, I'm employable

16:29:24 gernika: mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though.

16:29:39 gabriel_laddel: !up _biO_

16:30:43 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00057258 = 15.5169 BTC [+]

16:31:50 ben_vulpes: buenos dias

16:32:03 gabriel_laddel: hola

16:32:09 gabriel_laddel: como estas?

16:32:24 ben_vulpes: muy bien

16:32:33 ben_vulpes: ¿y tu, comrade?

16:33:21 gabriel_laddel: fenomenal

16:33:35 ben_vulpes: ¿de veras? ¿porque?

16:33:47 mircea_popescu: companero ? compadre ?

16:34:08 ben_vulpes: 'twas a sovietism

16:34:44 gabriel_laddel: Aterricé un trabajo

16:34:54 gabriel_laddel: writing CL + mcclim

16:34:56 mircea_popescu: the sovietism is tovarash

16:34:56 gabriel_laddel: go me

16:35:07 ben_vulpes: oh fuck you srsly

16:35:14 mircea_popescu: the world is not my fault!

16:35:21 ben_vulpes: not you, gabriel_laddel

16:35:29 mircea_popescu: olol

16:36:05 ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: let me tell you of the salt mines of my homeworld...

16:36:09 mod6: <+gernika> mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though. << good to hear though

16:36:24 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: go on ahead

16:36:28 ben_vulpes: there is a SaaS that handles users for people who for whatever reason don't want to stand up their own services and servers.

16:36:58 ben_vulpes: developers working with this service can alter its behavior by providing it 'node' code that it executes on login/registration events

16:37:09 ben_vulpes: their sandbox provides precisely one map of dummy data.

16:37:26 ben_vulpes: it is not configurable in any way.

16:37:40 ben_vulpes: the suggested way to cram code into their orifices is by pasting it into text fields.

16:38:01 ben_vulpes: one can configure post-commit hooks in git, but their logic importer a) only works with github and b) only works with public repositories.

16:38:12 gabriel_laddel: ...

16:38:43 ben_vulpes: now on one hand that this thing doesn't give programmers any handles to alter test data is fine, in that it forces one to either work in a js repl or you know /actually write tests/

16:38:45 ben_vulpes: otoh

16:38:46 ben_vulpes: braindamage.

16:39:12 ben_vulpes: anyways i don't believe you nobody gets paid to write common lisp lalala i can't hear you

16:39:23 gabriel_laddel: I suggest you don't contemplate the loper device.

16:39:33 gabriel_laddel: it might be a danger to your health

16:39:41 ben_vulpes: you say that as though there were an option.

16:45:07 jurov: i daresay loper machine depends on solved halting problem

16:45:23 mod6: 359k+

16:45:31 gabriel_laddel: jurov: how so?

16:45:39 gabriel_laddel: jurov: the routing can't be that difficult

16:45:54 jurov: it's supposed to predict resources exhaustion at any time so that operator can be alerted

16:46:50 gabriel_laddel: jurov: No it isn't. It just eats all required resources and (maybe) returns.

16:46:52 gabriel_laddel: (I think)

16:47:43 gabriel_laddel: What happens if I (loop while t do ...) on a von n. arch? it just runs forever. Same thing.

16:47:46 gabriel_laddel: Don't do that.

16:48:29 gabriel_laddel: Now, I think the "language constructs" map directly to routing logic, so the AST "unrolls" onto the hardware

16:48:42 gabriel_laddel: but I've not sat down to work it out

16:48:51 williamdunne: Lol

16:49:04 williamdunne: One of the "lizardsquad" guys just got charged with 50,700 offences

16:49:21 jurov: if i learned anything from my haskell stint, it's how computer is utterly bad to manage its memory and other resources

16:50:11 jurov: even if you specify in most precise detail how to do stuff without side effects, you still have to hold its hand in order to not exhaust the memory

16:50:44 mircea_popescu: <jurov> it's supposed to predict resources exhaustion at any time so that operator can be alerted << in principle machine does not have to proceed before it wants to.

16:51:10 mircea_popescu: i am sure gabriel_laddel proposed "don't do that" won' cut it with alf - but i am also sure a "sometimes warn before" behaviour would be acceptable.

16:55:08 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.157 = 1.099 BTC [-] {2}

16:56:46 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

16:57:18 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193223 << there are not so many of these.

16:57:18 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 15:44:41; mircea_popescu: they're lucky anyone at all wants to work for them as it is.

16:57:45 mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut ?

16:58:04 mircea_popescu: dude get out, they're the website of 2015. every two bit 20something schmuck with two friends and a girlfriend has started one, last year.

16:58:17 ascii_field: places for folks to write malware and get serious clean money for it

16:58:26 mircea_popescu: there is at least one million of them. i have stopped even trying to count past 100k last year.

16:58:32 ascii_field: SERIOUS money

16:58:35 mircea_popescu: get out

16:58:41 mircea_popescu: they never saw even a decent salary.

16:58:41 ascii_field: not 'work 12 hours to make min wage while you sleep'

16:58:56 mircea_popescu: this recently raped one made less than gawker.

16:59:10 ascii_field: cut how many ways ?

16:59:25 ascii_field: (i assume the truth lies somewhere in those 500 GB...)

16:59:52 mircea_popescu: the boys made slightly more than they'd have made working for gawker, on the grounds that they're asocial weirdos.

16:59:55 mircea_popescu: the girls made about the same.

17:00:09 ascii_field: there were girls ?!!

17:00:11 mircea_popescu: we're not talking enough to be middle class here.

17:00:13 mircea_popescu: yes.

17:00:17 ascii_field: where ?

17:00:22 mircea_popescu: guy's gf.

17:00:30 ascii_field: didn't see any obvious ones in the 'git' login config

17:00:39 mircea_popescu: right.

17:01:00 mircea_popescu: someone did the accounting and the sucking sudanese cock you know.

17:01:10 ascii_field: aha

17:01:13 assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.157 = 1.413 BTC [-] {2}

17:01:31 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193239 << 'handle time' != 'use customary electronic clocks'

17:01:31 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 15:53:13; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193083 << this is rank nonsense. to be money it will have to handle time.

17:01:43 mircea_popescu: granted

17:01:47 mircea_popescu: but you're not taking time out of it.

17:01:52 ascii_field: time is in.

17:01:56 mircea_popescu: aite.

17:03:50 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193275 << compadre

17:03:50 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 16:32:33; ben_vulpes: ¿y tu, comrade?

17:03:53 *: ascii_field buys ben_vulpes dictionary

17:04:10 mircea_popescu: anyway, this is what powers my disinterest in the matter. i saw in logs this pov is divergent with teh republic, so i'll entertain the alternative viewpoint, but just for the sake of records.

17:04:58 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: which ?

17:04:58 scoopbot_revived: The situation of Greece http://fraudsters.com/2015/the-situation-of-greece/

17:05:14 mircea_popescu: ascii_field re the "yet another bedroom derpitude" thread just before.

17:05:53 ascii_field: the clocks?

17:06:06 ascii_field: 'hackteam' ?

17:06:11 ascii_field: which derpitude ?

17:07:02 ascii_field: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193305 << if at some point i proposed a thing that requires 'solved halting problem' please say!

17:07:02 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 16:45:07; jurov: i daresay loper machine depends on solved halting problem

17:07:03 mircea_popescu: hackteam

17:07:08 mircea_popescu: o look at teh nyse btw.

17:07:34 ascii_field: http://www.cnbc.com/id/102806720 << lulz

17:07:36 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hh3uAu )

17:07:52 ascii_field: Run Moar Winblowz!!!

17:08:22 mod6: trades haulted, no suprise there.

17:08:30 mod6: *halted

17:08:42 williamdunne: I wonder if any sysadmins are gonna jump out of some windows

17:08:46 mod6: next, like .cn, selling banned

17:08:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 "our free market is this thing you can only buy!!1"

17:08:59 mircea_popescu: bwahaha

17:09:08 mircea_popescu: and this is somehow ~not a scam~

17:09:11 mod6: right

17:09:13 mircea_popescu: then they want to "regulate" biutcoin

17:09:18 mircea_popescu: make it more like the fiat ponzi system

17:09:22 mircea_popescu: the gall.

17:09:26 mod6: srsly.

17:10:14 gabriel_laddel: !b 10

17:10:15 assbot: Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3263M1Y.txt )

17:10:16 ascii_field: i fully expected this after hearing the cn thing

17:10:22 decimation: they totally know it's not a 'cyber attack'

17:10:24 mircea_popescu: anyway, they had no choice.

17:10:29 mircea_popescu: chinese decided to unwind

17:10:37 ascii_field: raise yer hand if you thought ft meade would leave nyse switched on

17:10:44 mircea_popescu: nah was not possibru.

17:11:19 decimation: ft meade does what wall st wants, not vice versa

17:11:29 mircea_popescu: really a distinction without a difference

17:11:33 davout: so i'm trying to build the stator, getting "headers.h:21:27: fatal error: openssl/ecdsa.h: No such file or directory"

17:11:37 mircea_popescu: does liver do what spleen wants or spleen, liver

17:11:43 williamdunne: Chinese dumping US stocks now, I'm presuming. Need to pump some filthy fiat into their own markets

17:11:46 ascii_field: davout: your openssl did not build

17:11:57 ascii_field: davout: did you have the tarballs in place ?

17:11:58 mircea_popescu: also make sure you build the right one

17:12:05 ascii_field: there is a MANIFEST

17:12:15 davout: i have openssl-1.0.1g.tar.gz in distfiles

17:12:18 decimation: check the hashes plus sigs

17:12:21 mircea_popescu: that one yea

17:12:26 davout: (using mod6's build script)

17:12:39 ascii_field: ^^^^ ~that~'s why doesn't work

17:12:43 ascii_field: his scripts never worked for me

17:12:44 mod6: you need to use "stator.sh" that comes with the stator tarball

17:12:54 decimation: you probably have the 'realpath' issue

17:13:00 decimation: which is because debian is fucktarded

17:13:00 mod6: this too ^^

17:13:01 davout: ok, i'll do this, thank yall!

17:13:03 mircea_popescu: a could be

17:13:17 mod6: davout: what os?

17:13:22 davout: gentoo

17:13:32 mircea_popescu: tech support at its best is keeping a list of who's fucktarded.

17:13:32 mod6: yeah, that auto.sh has problems there.

17:13:36 mircea_popescu: sad state of affairs.

17:13:50 ascii_field: davout: for now, skip the auto.sh and use my scripts

17:13:54 ascii_field: very short and simple to grasp

17:14:05 ascii_field: and pretty much guaranteed to work on gentoo

17:14:12 decimation: just be sure to check the distfile hashes

17:14:17 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzevzzvPKk1rovqsto1_500.gif

17:14:18 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CoVT6S )

17:14:18 decimation: don't grab the wrong ones

17:14:19 ascii_field: aha. this is not automated in mine

17:14:27 davout: ok

17:14:41 davout: where's the stator tarball?

17:14:42 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: brilliant. ought to be installed in every american gym

17:14:52 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: For some reason she looks like a giant

17:15:16 mod6: davout: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000102.html

17:15:17 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CoW4z5 )

17:15:18 mircea_popescu: low camera williamdunne

17:15:42 *: williamdunne was a terrible art student

17:15:49 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: you're right

17:16:33 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: let's have the finale of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193367 ?

17:16:33 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 17:07:03; mircea_popescu: hackteam

17:16:46 mircea_popescu: generally the difference between advertising set and porn set is that porn set cameras all set crotch height

17:17:00 mircea_popescu: ascii_field what's more to say ?

17:17:03 mod6: grab those, verify, unpack; beware that you need to drop openssl/bdb/boost in distfiles by hand. and ascii_field's script doesn't want boost.tar.gz, wants boost.tar.bz

17:17:07 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no, it isn't 'greatest leak ever' - but certainly the most complete gutting of a usg contractor in history

17:17:11 mod6: follow this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/stator-buildlog-wDumpBlockAndEatBlockApplied.txt

17:17:13 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FYJMZi )

17:17:13 ascii_field: everything but the ashtray

17:17:16 mircea_popescu: no argument.

17:17:33 mircea_popescu: you will notice it is not actually a usg contractor. it's a sudanese contractor.

17:17:50 williamdunne: These "decentralize all the things" fuckwads are really pissing me off re: NYSE

17:18:02 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: usg was a major client

17:18:07 mircea_popescu: the difference between this and an "etsy shop" is color scheme.

17:18:18 ascii_field: and of course it was the крыша

17:18:19 mircea_popescu: i dunno, seems more like it was a major alleged client.

17:18:30 ascii_field: picture what would happen if ~i~ tried to open a 'hackteam'

17:18:36 mircea_popescu: dunno how much you know about how teenaged girls suck cock these days

17:18:45 mircea_popescu: but the way it goes, they pretend to be selling to X so Y may buy

17:18:49 ascii_field: about as much as i know of penguins

17:18:53 mircea_popescu: ascii_field nobody would even notice.

17:18:55 mircea_popescu: it's all in your head.

17:19:06 mircea_popescu: i bet half of your coworkers are "secretly" part of one.

17:19:13 mircea_popescu: it truely is the band of 2015.

17:19:27 ascii_field: l0l

17:19:45 mircea_popescu: i kid you not. but i do not expect anyone to take this on faith.

17:19:50 ascii_field: fact is, monetizing virii requires a крыша

17:20:04 mircea_popescu: dude...

17:20:09 ascii_field: no srsly

17:20:18 ascii_field: unlike penguin and gurlz, i know this from direct observation

17:20:23 mircea_popescu: are you even from this planet at ALL ? do you know how much can be passed off as work before even as much as touching a tool ?

17:20:33 williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Some are pretty enthusiastic about it

17:20:40 mircea_popescu: yes, playing in a band requires a guitar.

17:20:43 mircea_popescu: so ? got any sticks ?

17:20:50 ascii_field: music with no ears.

17:21:07 mircea_popescu: every kid in a barage gand in 1955 had ear ?

17:21:12 mircea_popescu: what ear. they're americans.

17:21:13 ascii_field: anybody can write turdware, yes

17:21:25 ascii_field: i am speaking of ~money~

17:21:34 mircea_popescu: also all in your head.

17:21:50 williamdunne: https://twitter.com/cgledhill/status/618830161144901632

17:21:52 williamdunne: People must care because SJWs signed a petition, wao

17:21:52 mircea_popescu: these particular kids would have made more scamming in eve

17:21:53 mircea_popescu: but hey.

17:21:57 williamdunne: #1 fintech influencer supposedly

17:22:30 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: from what i can tell, the 'hackteam' folks were paid hundreds of thousands of euros to do things that i consider a weekend's work

17:22:35 ascii_field: this is called 'crown concession'

17:23:02 mircea_popescu: start one then.

17:23:07 ascii_field: l0l

17:23:10 mircea_popescu: all you need is the girlie to suck sudan cock.

17:23:14 mircea_popescu: ask on craigslist

17:23:42 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2015#1002367

17:23:42 assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 07:04:28; asciilifeform: dude really, it is very easy to fly. just bend your arms into an effective lift surface, right angle of attack, and fart really hard.

17:23:57 mircea_popescu: ask.on.craigslist.

17:24:29 *: ascii_field utterly fails to grasp what mircea_popescu is speaking of

17:24:39 mircea_popescu: say "Very gifted reverse engineer, looking for outgoing, persuasive, experienced slut to start hackteam together. You'll have to suck bureaucrat cock to get us contracts, I'll fill them, we split the loot."

17:25:05 ascii_field: mircea_popescu: guess where i'm posting from

17:25:12 ascii_field: it doesn't work unless you have access to the right cock

17:25:16 mircea_popescu: the congress library

17:25:18 ascii_field: and we - thus far - don't.

17:25:22 mircea_popescu: eh get outta here.

17:25:26 ascii_field: srsly

17:25:30 mircea_popescu: that's HER job.

17:25:48 ascii_field: despite, for instance, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-06-2015#1175261

17:25:48 assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 03:01:25; asciilifeform: i built it.

17:25:52 mircea_popescu: pack her off to whatever, sierra leone

17:25:59 ascii_field: we don't have any gurlz though

17:26:14 mircea_popescu: sucks to be us.

17:26:15 thestringpuller: i think the network just forked again

17:26:31 ascii_field: thing i'm beginning to suspect is that nobody gives half a shit about reversing, or 'security', or any of it

17:26:35 ascii_field: but only launders usg money

17:26:41 ascii_field: with pre-selected butt buddies

17:26:47 gabriel_laddel: ^

17:27:10 mircea_popescu: the first part is right.

17:27:16 ascii_field: ph0rk!

17:27:21 mircea_popescu: mmyeah.

17:27:43 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

17:29:24 mircea_popescu: and ima go play eulora in celebration.

17:41:25 ascii_field: unph0rk3d ?

17:41:40 ascii_field: aaaand https://blockchain.info/block/0000000000000000024d5e8b9010d61d93550bfd022a5d8f613f7daa620456f8 l0l

17:41:41 assbot: Bitcoin Block #364437 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp22jF )

17:41:42 williamdunne: It's okay guyz, NYSE is turning itself off and on again

17:42:29 jurov: nyse mining bitcoins?

17:47:26 williamdunne: Yeah, they've got some celerons on the job

17:58:55 gabriel_laddel: !up ascii_field

17:58:55 gabriel_laddel: http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/

17:58:55 assbot: Project IceStorm ... ( http://bit.ly/1BKXug8 )

17:59:20 gabriel_laddel: ^ some people reverse engineered an fpga's bitstream format

17:59:32 gabriel_laddel: *a fpga...

17:59:56 ascii_field: 'We have enough bits mapped that we can create a functional verilog model for almost all bitstreams generated by Lattice iCEcube2 for the iCE40 HX1K-TQ144, as long as no block memories or PLLs are used. ' << wake me up when that last part changes. and when i can get this chip from ten different chinese foundries.

18:00:06 ascii_field: this all happened before, with xilinx

18:00:09 ascii_field: and we know how it ends.

18:01:26 ascii_field: 'Next on the TODO list: PLLs, Timing Analysis...' << ahahahahahaha

18:01:50 ascii_field: try synthesizing ~anything~ of any serious complexity without exact timing data for ~every piece of shit on the die~

18:02:26 ascii_field: i gotta take my hat off to these folks for sheer effort, but the fact remains that they are scooping out the sea with the proverbial thimble.

18:05:46 gabriel_laddel: To any "hackers" reading the logs - rather than going after hackteam, try xilinx, lattice semiconductor next time?

18:05:52 ascii_field: ('how it ends,' for the uninitiated, is that some time around when these fine folks are about half done, the chip will go out of print. and be replaced by an entirely incompatible one.)

18:06:08 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.

18:06:52 ascii_field: a 'doxxed' fpga is entirely useless if you can't get it!

18:07:09 gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: imho this is going to be a slow process of ad-hoc reverse engineering of a design, finding chiacom manufactures...

18:07:09 ascii_field: it is, after all, a physical object.

18:07:17 gabriel_laddel: someone needs to carry the water.

18:07:21 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: there is no mass market for these.

18:07:25 ascii_field: we had this thread before.

18:07:34 gabriel_laddel: !s bribery

18:07:35 assbot: 9 results for 'bribery' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bribery

18:07:54 ascii_field: not bribery as such, just that you'd have to pay the fab up front, cash on the barrel

18:07:57 ascii_field: to have any made.

18:08:38 ascii_field: not a bribe, but straightforward commerce

18:09:57 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: another detail that must be understood is that reversing for the purpose of programming is a very different animal from reversing for the purpose of rebuilding.

18:10:17 ascii_field: in the case of the latter, it is necessary to have a ~complete~ picture of the vital organs

18:10:31 ascii_field: including aspects that a programmer doesn't give a flying fuck about, like chemistry

18:10:50 ascii_field: and in-circuit testing

18:14:09 gabriel_laddel: Unrelated: Uncle Al's disqus profile. It is a treat. https://disqus.com/by/Xemist/

18:14:10 assbot: Disqus Profile - Xemist ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp6BdM )

18:14:42 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: good to see that he's still kicking, somewhere

18:15:16 gabriel_laddel: Orange County iirc?

18:16:02 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: i suspected he might have 'went perelman'

18:16:06 williamdunne: gabriel_laddel: About 12 months ago I was tasked with checking the security of a fiat institution. Within three hours I had found two different bugs to send money from accounts that weren't mine, and two different bugs to view all account details that weren't mine, and another to see all transaction details that weren't mine.

18:16:35 gabriel_laddel: williamdunne: !

18:17:29 williamdunne: IKR, the operator was a friend of mine, but he was very concerned when I sent him the details for a large transaction from themselves to a law firm they employ

18:18:06 gabriel_laddel: Speaking of Uncle Al - not only did the 'gentlemen' at the eot wash group modify their URL scheme so that his links appear "dead", but Stanford has also moved the single link in qz4.html

18:18:08 ascii_field: williamdunne: and that was when he put out your eyes and cut out your tongue ?

18:18:23 ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: big fat surprise

18:18:25 gabriel_laddel: lol check this out

18:18:26 gabriel_laddel: http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/sites/www.npl.washington.edu.eotwash/files/webfiles/publications/pdfs/lowfrontier2.pdf

18:18:30 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp7fb7 )

18:18:31 williamdunne: ascii_field: not quite, although I do regret agreeing to do it pro-bono

18:18:32 gabriel_laddel: ^ new url scheme vs.

18:18:39 gabriel_laddel: http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/publications/pdf/lowfrontier2.pdf

18:18:40 assbot: Page not found | The Eöt-Wash Group ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cp7hj7 )

18:20:34 gabriel_laddel: williamdunne: so you're the guy who makes the spice flow?

18:20:44 gabriel_laddel: what exactly do you do?

18:21:16 williamdunne: Hard to pin that one down

18:21:32 gabriel_laddel: doya have a cv or the like?

18:21:52 ascii_field: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/neuroskeptic/the_strange_world_of_8220reward_deficiency_syndrome8221_part_2/#comment-2118094177

18:21:53 assbot: Disqus - The Strange World of &#8220;Reward Deficiency Syndrome&#8221; (Part 2) ... ( http://bit.ly/1TlSFWh )

18:21:54 ascii_field: many lulz

18:22:19 ascii_field: 'Be homicidally depressed and aim at the top. That is like voting, except the count is honest and meaningful.'

18:22:23 gabriel_laddel: ahahaha

18:22:37 williamdunne: I've never received a job by anything but reference. First job when I was 14 was a game programmer, second job when 15 was working at a military intelligence company in London doing some infosec and accounting type stuff. Lots of freelancing stuff

18:22:51 williamdunne: Security, programming, pretty much anything with a keyboard

18:24:12 williamdunne: Recently did some stuff for the BitFinex guys, that wasn't much fun but y'know. Pays for stuff. Think I'll have more with them in future

18:29:46 gabriel_laddel: !up ascii_field

18:30:17 gabriel_laddel: !up NewLiberty

18:32:24 williamdunne: What happened to that German socialist girl, she ever come back to continue her derping?

18:44:40 ascii_field: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << l0ltr0n1c

18:44:40 assbot: The Polymath Archives: The Inappropriately Excluded ... ( http://bit.ly/1TlVir1 )

18:49:52 gabriel_laddel: "The antidote to national social and financial collapse is war. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of social and economic realities. It rewards the creative, productive, and effective. It reduces redundant populations. North Korea, India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia (paid for Paki research, repaid by Paki nukes) stare down some 1000 exceptionally well-crafted and deliverable Israeli thermonukes.

18:49:52 gabriel_laddel: Fukishima effluent on California's coast chews up the food chain to seals. 39 million person California, tremendously government subsidized, is collapsed. Its unsecured debt is the Saudi GNP while its $45 billion/year agriculture Central Valley has returned to desert, unemploying a million Mexican slaves with nowhere to go. Let's run the Battle of the Somme again, and soon. The jet stream dips south in autumn." (fr

18:49:52 gabriel_laddel: om Uncle Al)

18:53:43 trinque: war doesn't really reduce redundant population

18:53:57 trinque: bounces right back after the war, if there's a dip at all

18:58:18 mats: uh

19:02:11 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

19:02:31 ascii_field: 'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)

19:04:09 trinque: mats: I am not finding a good graph of the russian population per year, yet I recall ww2 being a temporary blip downward that was rapidly recovered

19:04:17 trinque: and they sustained huge casualties

19:10:26 mats: the specific claim being made is 'redundant populations'

19:10:50 mats: how do we evaluate this claim

19:13:13 trinque: there'd have to be some correlation between an indicator of this redundancy before the war and which soldiers died

19:14:17 trinque: "unskilled laborers died more often than ..." << maybe something like that

19:17:10 ascii_field: '12 years public school, 4 years undergrad, 6 years PhD, 4 years post-doc. You are now over 30, deeply in debt, and starting life. Your idiot high school classmate who held a STOP sign at a construction site has been pulling $80K/year, has a fine home, wife, three kids, and a motor boat. His eldest son rakes in $850K/year tax-free facilitating recreational pharmaceuticals and an escort service.' << schwartz

19:18:38 trinque: mats: but then even if the stupid tend to die more often, it could still be so that the stupid back home fuck enough to replenish stocks

19:20:48 mats: ain't social science great

19:21:19 ascii_field: trinque: intelligence doesn't breed true. (stupidity, however, does. this confuses folks)

19:26:37 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00057258 = 8.5314 BTC [+]

19:30:14 trinque: ascii_field: I don't follow

19:30:37 trinque: ah that intelligence is not necessarily passed down genetically?

19:30:51 trinque: definitely not

19:32:55 trinque: !up ascii_field

19:33:48 ascii_field: trinque: also most folks who idly ponder the subject end up conflating several distinct things under 'intelligence'

19:34:29 ascii_field: far more interesting is the trait hasn eysenck called 'psychoticism'

19:34:52 ascii_field: which is the thing without which arbitrarily strong 'intelligence' ends up a chinese exam taker

19:35:21 ascii_field: interestingly, old norse, even, had a very specific word for this trait

19:36:07 *: ascii_field does not have the link with him. if anyone recalls the answer, do chime in

19:36:28 trinque: old norse probably had an honorable term for the thing

19:37:47 trinque: ascii_field: something like the combination of dominance and being a social supernode?

19:37:53 ascii_field: no.

19:38:10 ascii_field: mircea_popescu chronically links the two, but they are entirely independent

19:38:22 ascii_field: one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack the other entirely

19:40:00 ascii_field: specifically, you can have arbitrarily high 'psychoticism' in the sense of being perelman and no 'dominance' or 'social supernode' to speak of.

19:43:24 trinque: ascii_field: then is it a measure of the willingness to fight other people?

19:43:31 ascii_field: again no

19:43:57 ascii_field: if you must reduce it to a soundbite - it is just a measure of the quality of the rng in your head

19:44:12 ascii_field: nothing to do with relating to other people.

19:44:26 trinque: ascii_field: I am promting you to define the term instead of merely restating it

19:44:35 trinque: I do not follow that definition either

19:45:13 ascii_field: trinque: i am certain that, just like everyone else here, you have met both kinds of 'intelligence'

19:45:26 ascii_field: i.e. 'champion at exams' vs the other kind.

19:46:00 trinque: sure, and the former is deeply embedded in a group concept of what he ought to be doing

19:46:05 trinque: and the latter has his own idea

19:46:07 ascii_field: what makes the exam champ the waste of oxygen that he is ?

19:47:48 trinque: general obedience is what I see

19:47:54 jurov: !up jborkl

19:49:22 trinque: ascii_field: by good RNG do you mean that they are capable of novel thoughts?

19:49:51 trinque: rather, that they have a greater capacity for ...

19:50:15 jborkl: The way it has been before, not all nodes have the same amount of txns in mempool - I never got enough of a explanation to discuss it

19:50:45 jborkl: mine has 32000 currently and blockchain has 21000

19:50:48 ascii_field: trinque: capable+inclined

19:50:59 trinque: then yes, I see your point

19:51:46 ascii_field: the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it

19:51:48 jurov: jborkl: maybe different antispam rules

19:53:04 trinque: ascii_field: haha, my former bosses for instance

19:53:08 jborkl: possible, there are a ton of waiting txns either way and the spike has been recently

19:53:46 jborkl: although I have just been watching from the sideline for a long time (not active)

19:54:52 trinque: ascii_field: it would make a great deal of sense to me if there were a connection between this kind of intelligence and personality traits which cause him to have a much lower default level of regard for any particular human off the street.

19:55:54 trinque: if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance

19:57:05 trinque: and if he doesn't, you get http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/norton.html

19:57:06 assbot: Norton I, Emperor of the United States ... ( http://bit.ly/1eGKHYw )

19:57:17 ascii_field: trinque: bad example. norton was popular.

19:57:38 ascii_field: a true social butterfly, even.

19:57:46 trinque: hah oh, my mistake

19:58:09 trinque: maybe someone that secretly collects human skin furniture then

19:58:23 ascii_field: do you collect dead ants ?

19:59:27 ascii_field: or kill ants for sport ?

19:59:28 *: trinque can see he will never earn the honorific "the Terrible"

20:00:08 ascii_field: true Not Giving A Fuck doesn't have a plus or minus sign. it's just a big fat zero.

20:00:30 trinque: ah

20:01:31 decimation: re: stupid breeding true < I thought 'reversion to the population mean' was the general outcome

20:01:38 ascii_field: aha

20:01:50 ascii_field: and stupidity is perfectly normal

20:02:13 decimation: I suppose tragically stupid parents are likely to have slightly smarter children

20:02:17 decimation: but not many worry about that case

20:02:23 ascii_field: not speaking here of extreme deformities

20:02:27 ascii_field: extra chromosomes, etc

20:02:31 decimation: right

20:02:32 ascii_field: just the factory-standard mind

20:02:49 decimation: but two iq 90 parents are likely to have children that score a little closer to 100

20:02:53 decimation: (for whites in the us)

20:03:16 decimation: who would be lost in the unwashed 1st std deviation anyway

20:03:43 lobbes: !up ascii_field

20:05:18 danielpbarron: ;;later tell mjr_ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2014#791843 << you can now

20:05:18 assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 00:44:36; mjr_: by the way, anyone gonna tell me if i can play this game where i can buy things with bitcoin?

20:05:19 gribble: The operation succeeded.

20:08:22 decimation: re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset

20:08:52 decimation: in fact, someone who depises 'astronomical time' in favor of cesium time is also fully in favor of 'usg time'

20:08:54 ascii_field: decimation: and if it rains ?

20:09:02 decimation: wait till tomorrow

20:09:04 ascii_field: and if you are in submarine ?

20:09:06 ascii_field: can't wait

20:09:17 ascii_field: you're running a node.

20:09:18 ascii_field: in real time

20:09:21 decimation: actually it would be neat to build a nutrino detector

20:09:29 decimation: in your submarine

20:09:39 ascii_field: afaik there is no useful timing info in solar neutrono flows

20:09:44 ascii_field: *neutrino flow

20:10:05 decimation: you might be able to determine the angle of the sun w.r.t. the earth's surface

20:10:35 ascii_field: and, considering the famous formula ('50/50 interactions when passing through light-year of lead') portable detector is a questionable affair

20:10:57 decimation: sure but you got water everywhere

20:11:03 decimation: although biologics would probably jam your signal

20:11:11 ascii_field: aha

20:11:21 ascii_field: examine the construction of a neutrino observatory.

20:11:46 ascii_field: (typically, abandoned mine filled with salt water and thousands of photomultiplier tubes on the walls, each the size of a man's torso)

20:11:54 decimation: indeed.

20:13:18 ascii_field: anyway, since this thread came back to life, i will point out that mircea_popescu is right re: the notion of time being necessary for a bitcoin net. but it doesn't have to come from a clock as traditionally understood

20:14:18 ascii_field: it just has to be a reasonably-periodic signal that all nodes can see, whose period is not affected by the aggregate hash rate, nor can be manipulated at reasonable expense by gnomes

20:15:10 decimation: perhaps the pogo should come with a sunlight detector

20:15:41 ascii_field: natural phenomena don't fit the bill

20:15:59 ascii_field: not only because they are not reliably detectable (rain, clouds, being in a submarine)

20:16:08 ascii_field: but because can be faked in various 'good enough' ways

20:17:03 ascii_field: and, on the other end, require specialized hardware

20:18:15 decimation: if usg can spam uv over a large area for hours, then you probably have bigger problems than money

20:18:41 ascii_field: decimation: thinking more of hacks like rf detection of sunspot cycle

20:18:46 ascii_field: or schumann's resonance, etc

20:19:22 decimation: yeah. ultimately a thinking person can observe sunrise, sunset, set own clock (calendar might be another matter)

20:19:50 decimation: of course 'set clock' algorithm needs your lat/lon

20:20:20 lobbes: plus, then you are back to 'who sets the clocks' problem

20:20:27 ascii_field: aha

20:20:28 decimation: the sun does.

20:20:41 ascii_field: and what of when you cannot see the sunrise ?

20:20:53 decimation: then you ought to have made preparations

20:21:05 ascii_field: such as ?

20:21:16 decimation: if you have a submarine, you probably ought to have high quality timekeeping equipment

20:21:30 ascii_field: so we're back to clock, then

20:21:41 ascii_field: we already know how to meet and set clocks, last i checked

20:21:55 decimation: you could even use a sundial

20:22:04 ascii_field: on submarine.

20:22:21 decimation: submarine needs clock, yes.

20:22:29 ascii_field: let's try to define the basic puzzle here

20:23:06 ascii_field: two (at minimum) geographically separated people, with enemies in between, wish to agree re: how much time has passed since they last spoke, 2016 blocks ago.

20:23:35 decimation: they don't own clocks and can't see the sunrise and don't know where they are too?

20:23:53 ascii_field: let's suppose they traded pgp keys and can communicate securely. however, they cannot prevent the enemy from delaying messages

20:24:00 ascii_field: or sometimes 'losing' them entirely

20:24:05 decimation: sure.

20:24:34 ascii_field: say they own very poor clocks, which drift by a second - or more - per minute.

20:24:52 decimation: heh ok

20:24:58 ascii_field: (pogo...)

20:25:07 decimation: it's not quite that bad

20:25:12 decimation: but not great, granted

20:25:14 ascii_field: for the sake of argument.

20:25:15 ascii_field: aha

20:26:05 ascii_field: and now compound the problem by supposing that it is not you and your best friend, but you and a network consisting, to an unknown degree, of devils

20:27:10 decimation: devils who reluctantly serve up blocksl

20:27:29 ascii_field: devils who do whatever it takes to camouflage as men

20:27:39 ascii_field: while dishing out max damage

20:28:38 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92665 @ 0.00057468 = 53.2527 BTC [+] {4}

20:31:52 funkenstein_: consider a node that passes on valid TXs, checks new blocks for proper work and passes them on. it ignores timestamps and lets miners say what current difficulty is. useless or not?

20:32:21 ascii_field: vulnerable to rewinds.

20:32:29 ascii_field: and to other induced forkage.

20:33:04 ascii_field: (will accept blocks that are not, by the traditional bitcoin rules, valid. and predicate acceptance of future blocks on these turds - which is what 'accept a block' means)

20:33:05 ben_vulpes: what is a rewind attack?

20:33:12 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: being fed an alternate past

20:33:22 ascii_field: typically from when mining was considerably 'easier'

20:33:27 ascii_field: but not necessarily

20:33:30 ascii_field: (can be recent past)

20:33:48 ben_vulpes: i'm sure you've gone into this in depth, but doesn't the length of the current main chain make that ludicrously expensive?

20:34:16 ascii_field: ben_vulpes: why would it ?

20:34:32 ascii_field: certain variants of the attack are prohibitively costly, yes

20:34:34 ascii_field: others - no

20:34:49 ben_vulpes: which variants are cheap?

20:34:55 funkenstein_: !up ascii_field

20:35:26 ben_vulpes: aha the one where you simply hold difficulty constant and mine a long-ass chain.

20:35:34 ascii_field: aha

20:35:49 funkenstein_: the chain with the most work demonstrated wins

20:35:49 ascii_field: or feeding a whole alternate universe to a virginal (has nothing but genesis) node

20:35:58 decimation: I donno, it strikes me that having a sundial and knowing how to use it (convert to universal time) is a pretty cheap counter

20:36:07 ascii_field: which yes, you can defend against with crude kludges like storing sums, but this is 'enumerated badness'

20:36:17 ben_vulpes: decimation: but then people would have to touch it !!111twelve1

20:36:18 ascii_field: decimation: now you have a human slave in the loop

20:36:27 ascii_field: straight to 'slavecoin'

20:36:31 ascii_field: don't even need a computer.

20:36:40 decimation: yeah, slave tells you time of day

20:36:48 ascii_field: and hashes with goose feather pen

20:36:54 ascii_field: as described in mircea_popescu's tale

20:37:14 decimation: well, if slave tells you time of day, the class of attacks you describe become much more difficult

20:37:35 ascii_field: except that the attacks now include having one's throat cut at night, aha

20:38:11 ascii_field: at any rate, we don't actually know how to do 'proof of work' thing using meat.

20:38:22 ascii_field: if we did, 'hawala' would have used it 2000 y ago.

20:38:46 decimation: yes, true.

20:39:05 ascii_field: in my mind, that's sorta the whole point of bitcoin.

20:39:10 ben_vulpes: (unrelatedly: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/opinion/15pubed.html?_r=1)

20:39:12 assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1D1BLmt )

20:39:28 ben_vulpes: (on the use of "torture" in the nyt)

20:40:22 decimation: why does the fact that your throat can be cut invalidate proof of work?

20:40:41 ascii_field: it doesn't

20:40:44 ascii_field: separate problems.

20:40:53 shinohai: I should say having one's throat cut invalidates a lot of things.

20:41:01 decimation: not for me

20:41:13 decimation: (your throat i mean)

20:41:33 ascii_field: the unfortunate thing is that the 'easy to verify, hard to produce' thing very much requires machines.

20:41:42 decimation: at any rate, I fully admit that bitcoin requires slaves to feed computers the right data and configure them

20:42:45 *: decimation wonders if skynet will need an 'economy' or will just directly solve the 'need things/have things' trade matrix

20:42:45 bagels7: i'll be your slave for a million dollars on a 5 year basis

20:42:47 ascii_field: decimation: do you know the story of how the concept of 'space station' came about?

20:43:00 decimation: not precisely no

20:43:25 ascii_field: well, afaik the 'precise' is not publicly known. but the ancient rumour that was taught to me was that it was a usg military propaganda trick

20:43:33 ascii_field: see, somebody's gotta change the vacuum tubes

20:43:38 ascii_field: in spy satellites.

20:43:55 ascii_field: except when they don't. then, suddenly, much less talk of space stations

20:44:30 decimation: yeah, that's true I think. the soviets believed it anyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaz

20:44:31 assbot: Almaz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlbOKo )

20:45:17 decimation: su actually built 'manned spy satellites' - became 'civilian peace stations' in the 80's

20:45:22 ascii_field: aha.

20:45:46 ascii_field: just as usg turned their orbital nuke dropper into 'space shuttle'

20:45:55 decimation: but I do see your point, if we can make the hardware 'reliable'

20:46:14 ascii_field: a pogo, as i envision it, has much in common with a comm satellite

20:47:11 shinohai: Is there a history of the pogo somewhere?

20:47:25 ascii_field: shinohai: of the pogo as it comes from the vendor ?

20:47:29 ascii_field: or of our particular dealings with it

20:47:50 shinohai: Of your particular dealings. How the idea of using it came about.

20:48:00 shinohai: I was just curious.

20:48:26 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-07-2015#1184297

20:48:26 assbot: Logged on 02-07-2015 17:52:19; ascii_field: shinohai: it all started with http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-01-2015#988286

20:49:08 ascii_field: mircea_popescu posed the question of what is the cheapest mass-produced piece of equipment that could be pressed into service to run therealbitcoin.

20:49:16 ascii_field: the answer turned out to be pogo.

20:49:20 ascii_field: by a factor of 6 or so.

20:49:36 ascii_field: mainly because it is (or rather was) sold far below cost by the manufacturer

20:49:44 ascii_field: who was pushing a weirdo 'cloud subscription' thing with it

20:50:32 shinohai: I am fascinated by how mircea_popescu envisioned that. I tried for well over a year to figure out how to busybox it.

20:50:36 shinohai: And failed.

20:50:41 ascii_field: shinohai: he didn't

20:50:49 ascii_field: just asked the question.

20:50:56 ascii_field: i answered it, experimentally

20:51:09 ascii_field: ported netbsd to the thing, too

20:51:14 ascii_field: which turned out to be a waste of time

20:51:26 ascii_field: (certain necessaries did not work correctly)

20:53:12 shinohai: I was hoping my pogo would arrive today, but postman has already come. :/

20:56:05 ascii_field: shinohai: most of what i've done re: therealbitcoin so far revolves around getting memory footprint under control

20:56:18 ascii_field: shinohai: pogo has 128M of ram, soldered on.

20:57:06 shinohai: And it is fantastic work, imho. My shell provider doesn't bitch at me about bandwidth anymore either.

20:57:13 ascii_field: um

20:57:18 williamdunne: Wait, people are successful at running bitcoin on summin with 128m of ram?

20:57:20 williamdunne: Wao

20:57:24 ascii_field: everything i did only ~increases~ bandwidth consumption

20:57:34 ascii_field: williamdunne: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html

20:57:34 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rld7c9 )

20:57:55 ascii_field: williamdunne: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150701/rss_d1746f76523316edcdc82326213f8953bf6f0d09.png

20:57:56 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RldaVB )

20:58:07 shinohai: For some reason mine has dropped, but probably because I'm not connecting to a bzillion nodes

20:58:26 ascii_field: (this was a node, i must remind the reader, with no mempool, on account of having no net connection and being fed blocks 'intravenously' if you will)

20:58:44 ascii_field: vertical axis is in kB

20:59:43 ascii_field: the thing here, as discussed in the past, is that 300 bytes (block header and overhead) are kept in ram at all times per ~known block~

21:00:11 ascii_field: now if the node is 'live' and has net connection, hears tx, suffers possible fragging (see old threads) - then even more consumption.

21:00:21 ascii_field: but what you see in that graph is the only 'leak' in the usual sense

21:00:43 ascii_field: as in, the one thing that is guaranteed to grow monotonically

21:04:05 ascii_field: https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000cf530b3346a39156f56eb9259e5d7fd97a6e9168ffaf91e << l0l

21:04:06 assbot: Bitcoin Block #364463 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RldQKx )

21:05:13 shinohai: test

21:05:24 shinohai: !up ascii_field

21:06:03 ascii_field: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3clbk6/bitcoin_xt_status_update/cswlmk4 << l0l

21:06:04 assbot: HostFat comments on Bitcoin XT Status Update ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rle4kR )

21:06:35 ascii_field: 'As you may have noticed, Bitcoin unfortunately has run out of capacity due to someone DoS attacking the network.'

21:06:38 ascii_field: 'run out'

21:06:39 ascii_field: 'someone'

21:06:52 ascii_field: 'bigger blocks'

21:07:00 ascii_field: (hearn, of course)

21:08:17 assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14762 @ 0.00056898 = 8.3993 BTC [-]

21:08:45 trinque: "I suspect it can be mitigated through heavier reliance on coin age priority, as coin age is not something that can be trivially bought on the spot, unlike fee priority."

21:08:56 trinque: same idiot argument re: spam as Luke-Jr

21:09:13 trinque: IF IT HAS A FEE ATTACHED AND IS A VALID TXN, IT'S NOT SPAM

21:09:17 ascii_field: ^

21:11:04 ascii_field: though gotta wonder if this is still fair to say re: a gigantic sack of shit with the words 'this is spam, and fuck you' printed right on it

21:11:13 ascii_field: (the tx sent to brainwallet('password') etc)

21:12:03 trinque: sure, one can imagine some sane criteria on determining spamitude

21:12:07 ascii_field: but aside from that, bidding up space in blocks by blowing one's own coin is a perfectly legit thing to do

21:12:11 ascii_field: as per the protocol rules

21:12:24 trinque: it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this

21:12:27 ascii_field: if usg wants to spend its coin this way, it can

21:13:19 mats: its an ideological matter to hear Luke-Jr tell it

21:13:22 ascii_field: as i pointed out before, it is being done for two disjoint reasons. one is so that hearn can write the turd linked above, re: 'it is crowded and we need blocks of $maxint size'

21:13:37 ascii_field: the other is so that gavin & co. can try to persuade miners to use their turdball

21:13:39 mats: 'i dun wanna hold gigs of "spam" on my drive, and nobody else does either'

21:13:47 ascii_field: by promising 'tx fee ordering' as a feature

21:15:20 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193852 << the fucking market is there. nobody broke it. but to redditards, 'market won't supply me with free shit' == 'market has failed'

21:15:21 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:12:24; trinque: it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this

21:15:52 trinque: right, I said this yesterday

21:16:00 trinque: stress test seems to prove the system works from where I sit

21:16:10 ascii_field: trinque: not if you ask the tards

21:16:13 ascii_field: for them, 'it broke'

21:16:32 ascii_field: because they can't send their 0.01 btc without fee

21:17:29 mod6: 'don't be poor'

21:17:35 ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them

21:17:49 ascii_field: when they cannot pay

21:18:10 shinohai: my tunnel collapsed

21:18:15 shinohai: sorry for the flood

21:19:02 trinque: ascii_field: reminds me of mircea_popescu's recent comments to the effect of roughly "We've done it! I exist!"

21:19:13 trinque: cannot think of a more vulgar mentality

21:19:14 ascii_field: l0l wut

21:19:24 trinque: the redditard mentality

21:19:37 trinque: that the fact of their pulse is by itself something special and important

21:20:32 mats: we're all equals, man

21:20:50 mats: we must has equal outcomes or else fascism

21:24:39 ascii_field: https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000dd2101c3f08f3e4ad16f90c37a2780f5012358c18371642

21:24:39 assbot: Bitcoin Block #364467 ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlfOdZ )

21:25:23 thestringpuller: ascii_field: so what's the problem here?

21:25:32 thestringpuller: we get fee market. fuck the people who can't pay for their nice things

21:25:43 thestringpuller: get a fucking job already

21:26:01 asciilifeform: !up ascii_field

21:26:01 thestringpuller: stop complaining about "waah my transactions is unconfirmed waaaah"

21:26:02 *: BingoBoingo just switched own nodes to 0.001 min fee for transaction relay

21:26:06 ascii_field: thestringpuller: ask'em

21:26:41 *: shinohai likes how BingoBoingo thinks.

21:26:56 ascii_field: thestringpuller: i'm not even certain that the 'ocean of complaint' consists of real people

21:27:06 ascii_field: rather than philippino meat puppets for-hire

21:27:39 BingoBoingo: Impact of my relay policy change on the network will be near nil, but policy is policy

21:28:00 funkenstein_: meanwhile litecoin users enjoying "stress test" popcorn

21:28:10 funkenstein_: i've never understood the philippino references i see here

21:28:18 ascii_field: funkenstein_: it's in the log

21:28:30 thestringpuller: !s philippino

21:28:30 assbot: 1 results for 'philippino' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=philippino

21:28:35 shinohai: !s philippino meat puppets for-hire

21:28:36 assbot: 0 results for 'philippino meat puppets for-hire' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=philippino+meat+puppets+for-hire

21:28:40 thestringpuller: !s phillipino

21:28:40 assbot: 2 results for 'phillipino' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=phillipino

21:28:50 ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-02-2015#1003223

21:28:50 assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:04:03; mircea_popescu: it was highlighted by intel about two weeks ago, and we're generally tracing it to philippines "top quality" content farms working for a number of (mostly ct and wash based) pr firms.

21:28:52 ascii_field: ^

21:28:57 fluffypony: itt: nobody can spell phillllippppinnnnooooo

21:29:14 shinohai: i copy-pasta'd xD

21:29:34 ascii_field: see whole thread

21:29:54 ascii_field: particularly, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2015#1003221

21:29:54 assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:03:08; mircea_popescu: "I've noticed certain repeating characteristic in the writing of many members of this forum: they construct grammatically correct sentences but absolutely disregard the underlying semantics: incoming vs. outgoing, local vs. remote, source vs. destination, etc. Here in regards to TCP/IP ports, but I observed that in regards to pretty much any technical issue."

21:40:22 williamdunne: WTF

21:40:30 williamdunne: It starts with an F? What's this shit

21:40:31 williamdunne: filipino

21:43:20 trinque: who gives a shit about arbitrary distinctions such as that?

21:43:33 trinque: only asciilifeform's test takers

21:43:41 trinque: and players of dwarf fortress

21:46:29 funkenstein_: bad spellers of the world: untie!

21:46:56 williamdunne: Sorta like how dyslexic is probably pretty hard to spell if you're dyslexic

21:48:27 trinque: brings to mind http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/european-commission.html

21:48:28 assbot: Jokes - European Commission ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlhwMq )

21:51:32 williamdunne: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-08/greece-illustrates-150-years-socialist-failure-europe

21:51:33 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlhKmF )

21:59:46 *: BingoBoingo is guessing that at some point Rubidium standards are going to become #b-a coture

22:31:28 BingoBoingo: Apparently Microshit is copying MP nao http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/contributors.html

22:31:29 assbot: Donate to the OpenBSD Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hi3NLe )

22:48:32 decimation: BingoBoingo: actually high quality ovenized quartz can be nearly as good as rubidium

22:49:24 BingoBoingo: Suffers labeling issues though. Hard to tell buy ordering if you get actual part or Chicom turd

22:49:51 decimation: not if you are willing to pay $$$

22:51:25 decimation: here's a reasonable text on celestial navigation http://www2.arnes.si/~gljsentvid10/page2.htm

22:51:26 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPIZ4W )

22:51:44 decimation: there is a description on how to derive time by measuring the moon's motion relative to other objects in the sky

22:54:01 decimation: actually better link to the book here http://www.celnav.de/page2.htm

22:54:02 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hi8RPQ )

22:58:02 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the fixation on physical clocks, astronomical magic, etc. is unproductive re: the original problem posed.

22:58:10 asciilifeform: (though by no means useless in general)

22:58:28 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, for different, later problems

22:58:49 asciilifeform: we, afaik, do not have those problems yet. must still graduate to them.

22:59:49 BingoBoingo: At somepoint though we will have the problem on when to start decelerating the starship lest we crashland into Alpha Centurai

23:00:11 asciilifeform: right now we have the very different problem of how not to drown in own shit.

23:00:54 BingoBoingo: And the way to not drown might just be space ship

23:01:02 BingoBoingo: Or Space shit

23:01:33 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you have a tip re: how to make perfectly synchronized with one another rubidium clocks materialize in the existing $20 pogos, i'm all ears..

23:01:49 BingoBoingo: No idea about that.

23:02:14 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: might wanna read that thread, it's pretty lulzy

23:02:35 asciilifeform: it's where i describe how bitcoin is not actually decentralized at all, but depends on a thoroughly usgificated network of political clocks

23:03:06 decimation: ^ clocks that could be, but probably are not, checked for accuracy

23:03:34 BingoBoingo: I read the thread. closest I have to solutions are either Noping ft. meade off the earth into the sun or Noping out and taking stator to ALpha Centurai

23:10:13 BingoBoingo: But I dunno. Maybe at some point radio hashes happens.

23:11:06 BingoBoingo: Disguise the signal as over the horizon radar

23:11:50 BingoBoingo: And at that point why not have competing political time broadcast on that signal, signed

23:15:11 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it doesn't acvtually depend on it.

23:15:17 mircea_popescu: owner of node may choose to depend on it

23:15:23 mircea_popescu: otherwise, nothing keeps you from keeping your own time.

23:19:24 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193532 << no one can force them to know it was doxxed, either.

23:19:24 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 18:06:08; ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.

23:22:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193580 << no.

23:22:31 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 18:32:24; williamdunne: What happened to that German socialist girl, she ever come back to continue her derping?

23:22:31 decimation: also describing it as 'political time' when the policy is 'matches easily observable astronomical phenomena' seems a bit hyperbolic

23:22:43 mircea_popescu: and ftr she looked like a guy to me.

23:22:56 mircea_popescu: decimation time is not a natural phenomenon.

23:22:57 trinque: ^ found that googling as well

23:23:13 decimation: spacetime doesn't exist?

23:23:15 trinque: women in technology == technologically produced womyn

23:23:17 mircea_popescu: but that aside, this is conventional time.

23:23:25 mircea_popescu: spacetime is an artefact of the observation being carried out.

23:23:45 mircea_popescu: and also, it is not ~time~. it is space-time.

23:23:54 decimation: as opposed to what? being derived from platonic ideals?

23:24:05 mircea_popescu: as opposed to mass.

23:26:13 BingoBoingo: <decimation> spacetime doesn't exist? << It isn't space or time, merely the manifold until it is intuited by the apperception

23:26:48 decimation: same could be said of quarks

23:28:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193590 << he is basically saying http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-06-2015#1170141 and in that he is right. for the exact reason in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169850

23:28:31 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:02:31; ascii_field: 'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)

23:28:31 assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.

23:28:31 assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 19:29:12; mircea_popescu: the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms

23:28:42 mircea_popescu: specifically, that if you wait for the "optimal" you're waiting forever.

23:29:14 mircea_popescu: decimation in any case, the time bitcoin uses is a political construct.

23:29:29 mircea_popescu: a matter of conventional agreementr, currently overseen by exactly usg.

23:29:43 mircea_popescu: unless you wish to experimentally prove that ~you~ can insert leap seconds into places.

23:30:33 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193597 exactly http://fraudsters.com/2009/hai-sa-facem-o-socoteala/ :D

23:30:33 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:17:10; ascii_field: '12 years public school, 4 years undergrad, 6 years PhD, 4 years post-doc. You are now over 30, deeply in debt, and starting life. Your idiot high school classmate who held a STOP sign at a construction site has been pulling $80K/year, has a fine home, wife, three kids, and a motor boat. His eldest son rakes in $850K/year tax-free facilitating recreational pharmaceuticals and an escort service.' << schw

23:30:34 assbot: Hai sa facem o socoteala. on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HcsbyU )

23:32:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193615 << this is a hollywood fiction. "the strong, silent type". not found in nature.

23:32:00 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:38:22; ascii_field: one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack the other entirely

23:33:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193627 << this is not unlike inquiring "what makes the sterile woman the waste of chocolate that she is". she only becomes that if you put her in a matronly role. otherwise, i wouldn't want a fertile catwoman.

23:33:13 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:46:07; ascii_field: what makes the exam champ the waste of oxygen that he is ?

23:33:29 mircea_popescu: so the problem there is of management not of nature. chinese exam taker is a great asset in any sanely balanced system.

23:33:58 mircea_popescu: and generally, the quality of a system is to be measured by how many people it can make life meaningful for, not how many people it has to kill to survive.

23:36:31 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193636 << consider many of the things we regularly discuss here. most people are neither willing to consider not even willing to look upon the outrage that goes on daily, hourly. be it icons of say badly beaten up women, or whatever else. plenty of people keep lists of words they won't ever say. this disinclination ~to consider~, however the subject justifies it, is the c

23:36:31 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:51:46; ascii_field: the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it

23:36:31 mircea_popescu: ertainest macula of intellectual ineptitude.

23:37:10 mircea_popescu: fact is, if you're not willing to consider the things you aren't going to do, your not doing them is not any sort merit, and it certainly won't ever work in your favour.

23:37:56 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193642 << is this an actual perspective, or is it a knot of nonsense ?

23:37:56 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:55:54; trinque: if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance

23:39:06 mircea_popescu: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << this thing is such bs. if the intelligent need to whine on an obscure blog, and for "society" to GIVE THEM shit they're about as intelligent as a mensa chapter. which isn't all that flattering.

23:39:07 assbot: The Polymath Archives: The Inappropriately Excluded ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hct624 )

23:39:35 trinque: that's more or less what I got from asciilifeform, that he was describing a person which, to put it in idiot's terms "does what makes sense to him"

23:39:45 trinque: could not find much clinical "psychopathy" in that

23:39:55 trinque: which leads me to suspect the term itself is stupid

23:40:34 mircea_popescu: not sure i follow.

23:42:33 trinque: I (perhaps incorrectly) take "psychopath" to be a political term, akin to "sociopath"

23:42:56 trinque: the former something like "does what he wants to, even if people cry" and the latter maybe "lies to his enemies, effectively"

23:43:15 mircea_popescu: hm

23:43:17 mircea_popescu: go on ?

23:44:10 trinque: mostly just that; I hear these terms most often used by someone who thinks someone else has been unfair, and ought to be restrained by the state

23:44:18 trinque: was otherwise fishing for asciilifeform's definition of the term.

23:46:02 punkman: mircea_popescu: does romanian have a word for sociopath?

23:46:15 mircea_popescu: sociopat

23:46:42 mircea_popescu: just like in english, it doesn't actually mean anything, unlike english it is not used by the hipstery youth.

23:47:21 punkman: there's an academic word for it in greek, nobody ever uses it though

23:47:32 mircea_popescu: there is aschilopat, which is a purely nonsense word that is use to convey roughly the same notion, "invisible gross diformity worthy of pity" but it's blue collar slang mostly.

23:48:34 trinque: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_schizophrenia << this one's pretty good

23:48:35 assbot: Sluggish schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPONLJ )

23:48:47 trinque: !s borderline

23:48:48 assbot: 30 results for 'borderline' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=borderline

23:49:24 trinque: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/10/the_diagnosis_of_borderline_pe.html << found it

23:49:26 assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder: What Does It Really Mean? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPORuX )

23:50:26 *: mircea_popescu drops http://fraudsters.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/ since we're on it

23:50:26 assbot: The definitive tract on sociopathy on fraudsters - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPOXmf )

23:51:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193670 << the mother of all occultations yes

23:51:39 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 20:08:22; decimation: re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset

23:54:42 trinque: "This is what sociopathy is : what the scum of the earth currently calls its betters." << right, soon to give way to "fagtalkers"

23:54:58 trinque: though one hopes it doesn't take long enough for that

23:55:45 trinque: I keep wanting to call that "inversion"

23:56:01 trinque: where something unnatural persists for so long it becomes the basis of comparison

23:56:07 trinque: eh unnatural is problematic

23:56:07 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193749 << this is an important point that i don't think asciilifeform fully digested. replay attacks that rely on block count do not work. actuall superior WORK has to be shown.

23:56:07 assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 20:35:49; funkenstein_: the chain with the most work demonstrated wins

23:56:08 BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/tTqFfvF.jpg

23:56:09 assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPPp3Y )

23:56:30 punkman: mircea_popescu: I liked the toilet analogy

23:56:33 mircea_popescu: trinque magic thinking is this all through

23:56:39 trinque: mhm

23:56:42 mircea_popescu: punkman how far off do you think tyhat piece is, as a local ?

23:57:56 mircea_popescu: !up solrodar

23:58:19 solrodar: hello

23:58:22 punkman: mircea_popescu: close enough

23:58:34 *: mircea_popescu is impressed with himself.

23:58:39 mircea_popescu: hello solrodar. who're you ?

23:59:04 punkman: maybe a good time for a translation of the older ones? gtranslate not doing them justice

23:59:19 solrodar: mircea_popescu: one of your blog readers

23:59:21 solrodar: I've made an attempt at the call graph you requested

23:59:30 mircea_popescu: o hey.

23:59:32 solrodar: http://imgh.us/bitcoin-dot.svg

23:59:35 assbot: Call graph ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hcvoyr )

23:59:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^

23:59:48 mircea_popescu: solrodar do you know what gpg is ?